11: "Waterworks" (S6E12)

[00:00:00] Did you get the mayonnaise?

[00:00:11] Well, here's the thing.

[00:00:13] They didn't have Dukes.

[00:00:15] And I really like Dukes, but they didn't have it.

[00:00:18] Which is a bummer.

[00:00:20] So...

[00:00:22] I don't know.

[00:00:24] You think this will work?

[00:00:26] I mean technically it isn't actually mayonnaise, but...

[00:00:29] Yeah.

[00:00:30] Technically I don't think this is mayonnaise.

[00:00:32] Look close, right?

[00:00:34] What do you think?

[00:00:36] Should we give it a shot?

[00:00:39] I don't know.

[00:00:40] What do you think?

[00:00:46] Yeah.

[00:00:47] Let's give it a shot.

[00:00:58] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:00] I'm Jason.

[00:01:01] I'm Reema.

[00:01:03] And I'm David.

[00:01:04] And this is Better Call Saul Cast, Episode 12.

[00:01:09] This week we're...

[00:01:10] 11.

[00:01:11] It's episode 11.

[00:01:13] Rough to a roaring start.

[00:01:15] We went off.

[00:01:16] Rural.

[00:01:17] Rural tired around here.

[00:01:18] Because the first episode covered the first two.

[00:01:20] People would rather I just don't even mention that.

[00:01:23] Forget I said it.

[00:01:24] Go ahead, Reema.

[00:01:26] This week we're covering Better Call Saul Season 6 Episode 12.

[00:01:31] Waterworks.

[00:01:37] It's a very true title in my opinion.

[00:01:40] I do love that they went back to the title puns,

[00:01:43] which were from the beginning of the year.

[00:01:46] It's a little...

[00:01:48] I feel like Waterworks is a little bit derogatory.

[00:01:53] Oh, there she goes with the Waterworks.

[00:01:58] But I don't think that's the way Vince Gilligan meant it.

[00:02:02] I think he just thought it was too clever

[00:02:04] because he works at a sprinkler shop.

[00:02:06] Whatever it is.

[00:02:08] Anyway, you called it David.

[00:02:10] It was mostly a Kim episode.

[00:02:12] I'm glad you were right about that.

[00:02:14] Yeah, I took a little victory lap or tried to while Karen and I were watching it

[00:02:18] and she was like, yeah, yeah, you're really smart.

[00:02:20] Shut up so we can watch this.

[00:02:21] I know, I know.

[00:02:23] Yes, we know.

[00:02:26] Okay, let's get into it.

[00:02:27] Better Call Saul Season 6 Episode 12,

[00:02:30] the penultimate episode of the series.

[00:02:32] Waterworks, what did you think in general, David?

[00:02:39] I thought it was amazing.

[00:02:41] A great episode, sort of power packed with events,

[00:02:46] happenings, emotions, you know, as the show does so well.

[00:02:51] And I know we'll get into talking about all the details of this,

[00:02:54] but I also thought it was one of the most emotionally devastating episodes they've done.

[00:02:59] It was hard to watch.

[00:03:00] Absolutely.

[00:03:02] Yeah, what about you, Ema?

[00:03:05] I mean, exactly what David said.

[00:03:08] I wholeheartedly agree.

[00:03:10] It was, I loved it.

[00:03:12] It was so well done, beautifully written, beautifully acted.

[00:03:16] So many great things that I know that we're going to talk about,

[00:03:20] but definitely a gut punch.

[00:03:22] Just very sad, like I'm still sad after having just watched it.

[00:03:26] Just all the emotions in this episode definitely turned up a lot of things.

[00:03:33] So, you know, Waterworks is definitely an appropriate title.

[00:03:37] At least on my end.

[00:03:39] I thought it was very good.

[00:03:41] I don't know if they're inspired by the black and white,

[00:03:44] but it feels even more artistically done than usual these episodes.

[00:03:51] It feels like I'm watching a small movie, like an independent movie.

[00:03:55] Like the part where Kim's crying and you just see this hand to comfort her.

[00:04:01] That just felt very independent, filmy.

[00:04:04] And or when he's in the guy's house, the music and just the way it's done.

[00:04:10] It's just so artful.

[00:04:12] And I freaking love it.

[00:04:13] And I love the exploration of these uncomfortable emotions and done so well.

[00:04:18] And even though it's feeling really sad and tragic.

[00:04:23] And I don't know if I've mentioned this, David,

[00:04:25] you said a couple of times that for Breaking Bad,

[00:04:28] I thought it would have been better if he just like ended when he was out in the wilderness or whatever with cancer.

[00:04:35] There was a part of me that felt like that too,

[00:04:37] that that would have been a more fitting end for the show,

[00:04:40] even though it was a downer and they kind of gave it a little upbeat moment at the end

[00:04:45] that felt like they cheesed out a little bit,

[00:04:47] but I also a part of me like, oh good, I got to feel a little good there.

[00:04:50] So that was good.

[00:04:51] But I think maybe it would have been artistically better to end it on a more sour note for Walt.

[00:04:56] For Better Call Saul, I do think I still think I'm more hopeful and he could fit this show.

[00:05:01] And I wish that Jamie would just gain a little bit of self awareness around his issues

[00:05:07] instead of just foolishly doubling down on his flaws.

[00:05:12] And so maybe we're at the darkest before the dawn here.

[00:05:17] I don't know.

[00:05:19] Yeah, I have felt that Breaking Bad,

[00:05:22] that Walt did not deserve to be the heroic redemption at the end.

[00:05:27] I don't think the door is quite closed on Jimmy Slash Saul with one episode to go.

[00:05:34] It's close.

[00:05:35] No.

[00:05:36] But he doesn't feel quite as unredeemable as Walt.

[00:05:40] He doesn't, but this final episode could just be a big door slam.

[00:05:44] You never know.

[00:05:45] It could.

[00:05:47] All right.

[00:05:48] Let's well, I want to say happy belated birthday to you, David.

[00:05:52] Time to sing everyone.

[00:05:54] Oh,

[00:05:57] we'll just say happy birthday.

[00:05:59] But how about you go first this week?

[00:06:02] What a birthday present that is.

[00:06:04] I have to say there's a great birthday cake in our house, only half of which was eaten.

[00:06:08] So I know I have something to look forward to when we're done here tonight.

[00:06:12] Nice.

[00:06:14] Okay.

[00:06:15] So I think I'll just start us on the headline, which is Kim six years later.

[00:06:22] And we, I remember we were speculating last week about the exact timeline.

[00:06:27] We knew it was some period of years, but now it's been defined for us as six years,

[00:06:33] which by the way, watching a little of a talking Saul after the show,

[00:06:38] Bob Odenkirk apparently thought it was a year and a half.

[00:06:42] And still against it.

[00:06:43] It was six years.

[00:06:45] Wow.

[00:06:47] But so, you know, we did get the Kim catch up episode.

[00:06:52] And although we really only get it in the present day of the most forward timeline,

[00:06:58] we don't get to see the whole six years of her.

[00:07:01] I think we can understand very well where it went because we know having seen

[00:07:08] the divorce scene that she was moving directly to Florida,

[00:07:12] she didn't like take a winding journey there.

[00:07:14] She went from Albuquerque to Florida.

[00:07:17] And clearly those six years were boring as hell.

[00:07:20] So we probably want to see too much of it.

[00:07:22] Yeah, I guess.

[00:07:23] But, but yeah, we find her as a, I mean, however you want to put it as like

[00:07:32] a Stepford wife, a zombie.

[00:07:35] It's almost like she had a lobotomy.

[00:07:38] At first it almost was like, is that her with the wig?

[00:07:43] And you know, she looks a little different, but it's the voice that's unmistakable.

[00:07:49] We kind of find her married to a moron.

[00:07:52] And there was some great stuff in that first scene with him and her basically

[00:07:59] just about how insipid and uninteresting their lives are.

[00:08:05] She's cooking food for a, it's a tailgate party.

[00:08:09] They're going to watch Florida State football, which is something you can imagine

[00:08:14] Kim has exactly zero interest in or would have before.

[00:08:18] And they're trying to make the hors d'oeuvres in exactly the right colors.

[00:08:22] She's trying to decide whether, you know, these things, tuna salad can be made

[00:08:26] without real mayonnaise with miracle whip.

[00:08:28] And agonizing over these decisions.

[00:08:30] Yes.

[00:08:31] And just this total nonsense.

[00:08:34] There's a great scene during this barbecue or whatever it is where her,

[00:08:39] the man she's with and the guys he's with are having this ongoing argument

[00:08:46] about whether epoxy darkens.

[00:08:49] And he says, I've been having this argument five days a week.

[00:08:54] Now I'm Sweden, Switzerland.

[00:08:56] You can't even get that right.

[00:08:59] Yeah.

[00:09:00] So that's the level we're dealing with.

[00:09:03] Hey, they open up a new outback in satellite beach.

[00:09:06] Want to go Friday?

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:09] I wonder how much different that is than the other all the other outbacks.

[00:09:12] Probably not at all.

[00:09:14] I felt like this whole part of the show was a little bit about Kim

[00:09:18] and a little bit of commentary on American society.

[00:09:21] But that's for another day.

[00:09:22] Well, Vince Gilligan has said, has hinted in these recent podcasts

[00:09:27] that, you know, well, Kim may have died, but there may also be

[00:09:30] a fate worse than death.

[00:09:32] And now we know what he means by that.

[00:09:34] It's this and he also said, though, he made sure to say on this

[00:09:39] most recent one, you know, this isn't a commentary on anyone who

[00:09:42] works for a sprinkler company or anything like that.

[00:09:45] He said America runs on these businesses and people doing

[00:09:49] these jobs and we need them.

[00:09:51] But the thing with Kim is that she is so skilled as a lawyer

[00:09:54] and can help people and she's not doing it.

[00:09:57] And so that's the tragedy and all of this.

[00:09:59] So he's trying to save face, I think, for listeners who work

[00:10:02] these boring jobs, you know, and he's right to.

[00:10:05] But I think he really was trying to make what maybe he would

[00:10:08] consider his own personal hell.

[00:10:10] Well, right.

[00:10:11] And it's also all exaggerated a little bit, you know, almost

[00:10:14] like a Coen Brothers movie.

[00:10:15] Right.

[00:10:16] It felt like that.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:19] But and I don't even want to get into Kim and Alba

[00:10:22] Kierke, which I think is a separate whole point.

[00:10:24] But just like when she has become.

[00:10:27] So there were some great details that were really sort of funny

[00:10:31] and enjoyable in the better call saw style, like all the details

[00:10:35] they put around her in this sort of drudgery job, which is

[00:10:40] so far below her talents.

[00:10:43] I loved the slogan of the company, Watering Your World

[00:10:46] since 1978, which isn't exactly even that long of a history.

[00:10:51] What Kim is doing when Saul calls her is she's typing up a new

[00:10:57] webpage for Pomco Sprinklers new line of flow chief, the flow

[00:11:02] chief family of products, which quote unquote heralds an exciting

[00:11:06] new chapter in PX tubing.

[00:11:09] And I think you I think we finally get the idea of what

[00:11:14] this is in black and white, this future world.

[00:11:17] Part of it is maybe just artistic style, but I think they really

[00:11:21] are bringing home that their world is colorless now.

[00:11:24] Yeah.

[00:11:25] All of the rich, rich pageantry they enjoyed in their lives

[00:11:30] in Albuquerque in various ways have become colorless,

[00:11:34] boring and joyous.

[00:11:36] And I think that's what I think is a very important

[00:11:39] thing in various ways have become colorless, boring and

[00:11:43] just so far below their personalities and talents

[00:11:46] and that she has matched him and that.

[00:11:48] And when they were together, they had a lot of this spark

[00:11:53] of excitement and joy about the things that they were doing

[00:11:56] and that's just completely gone for both of them now.

[00:11:58] Agreed.

[00:12:00] So the only real contrast that comes into this and this

[00:12:04] sparks the other half of the story with her, the Albuquerque

[00:12:07] half is the call that we saw but couldn't hear last week.

[00:12:12] And you know what that tells us about Kim, which we could

[00:12:18] have maybe guessed anyway, but it makes explicit that

[00:12:23] the trauma that she experienced in Howard's death

[00:12:27] and that the responsibility and guilt she feels for it

[00:12:30] have really turned her into a shell of the person

[00:12:33] she was before.

[00:12:35] She's going through the motions and she sort of has this life

[00:12:38] that she's constructed in Florida, but the heart of her

[00:12:42] is not there anymore.

[00:12:44] And I think Saul's inability to connect with any real part

[00:12:48] of her in the call is what we saw set him on in the last week.

[00:12:53] He's even he's saying, oh, she said something real

[00:12:58] halfway through the call and he said something like,

[00:13:00] okay, you're alive.

[00:13:01] Like, come on, where are you there?

[00:13:03] Where are you?

[00:13:04] Yeah, he said, show me you have a pulse.

[00:13:06] Yeah, even yell at me or trying to push your buttons.

[00:13:09] Yeah, he senses that she's just muted.

[00:13:12] Yeah, so I was very interested to see where they went

[00:13:16] with how she has been in the time that has gone by.

[00:13:20] And I was a little surprised because, you know,

[00:13:26] she just has such force of intellect and personality

[00:13:29] and is so talented and vibrant in everything we've seen up

[00:13:33] until now.

[00:13:35] It's hard to accept her as this, but I think the story

[00:13:38] does bear it out.

[00:13:39] I think it's the character development rings true,

[00:13:42] but it's just heartbreaking to see.

[00:13:44] I mean, it just breaks your heart to see her as that person.

[00:13:47] I mean, there was a part of me that I was like,

[00:13:49] is it really believable that she would have swung this far?

[00:13:53] And I started, I think one of the things with Better Call Saul

[00:13:58] versus other TV is we're used to seeing violence in other TV

[00:14:02] and we get desensitized to it.

[00:14:04] And also the characters don't really act around it the way

[00:14:07] that normal people actually would.

[00:14:09] And so I'm like, OK, what if I was doing something that I knew

[00:14:14] was probably not a great idea, but I just doubled down on it

[00:14:17] anyway, which we've all been known to do, right?

[00:14:19] On occasion.

[00:14:20] And then someone died because of it in my own life,

[00:14:23] you know, a friend of mine or something.

[00:14:25] I could totally see myself going, oh, fuck.

[00:14:28] I what did I do?

[00:14:31] How did that happen?

[00:14:32] I can't ever have anything like that happen again.

[00:14:34] Suddenly you don't trust yourself.

[00:14:36] You're second guessing everything, you know.

[00:14:38] So I don't know.

[00:14:39] Maybe I'm just trying to make it make sense.

[00:14:41] I like the story, but there was that part of me that's like,

[00:14:44] wow, really?

[00:14:46] Yeah, I do respect exactly what you said.

[00:14:51] So the story choice, whether it is 100 percent believable or not,

[00:14:55] I think you can argue.

[00:14:57] But I think it is a courageous choice to portray somebody who

[00:15:03] had this terrible violence come into their life and who never

[00:15:06] recovered from it's a trauma like you said.

[00:15:08] Yeah.

[00:15:09] And who it just has colored her life or un decolored her life

[00:15:13] ever since.

[00:15:14] And also, I think she and Jimmy are kind of they were together

[00:15:19] and then this trauma happened and they went opposite directions

[00:15:23] and in their response to it.

[00:15:25] And I heard this thing once that I think is really wise and it's

[00:15:30] like how we respond to adversity in our lives.

[00:15:33] There's like three general ways, you know, this is just sort of

[00:15:36] a theory to put out there.

[00:15:38] You can make of it what you will, but we can either kind

[00:15:41] of collapse around it and shrink away from it.

[00:15:45] You know, just hide or you can puff yourself up and posture

[00:15:50] and defend and armor up, you know.

[00:15:53] But in both of those cases, you're not really present, you know.

[00:15:57] And then third way is just to sort of face it openly and take

[00:16:00] responsibility for what part of it is yours.

[00:16:02] And that can be the scariest because you have to be vulnerable

[00:16:05] and open and present.

[00:16:06] And so if that's true, I think Kim has shrunk away

[00:16:11] and Jimmy has sort of posturing and armoring up and everything.

[00:16:16] And so that's why I'd like to see both of them in this final

[00:16:18] episode, sort of drop that and just get real around it.

[00:16:23] Yeah, I mean, and what we have to remember about the timeline

[00:16:28] is that the six years for Kim in Florida where she's turned

[00:16:31] into this automaton, most of that time was full sawl

[00:16:37] in Albuquerque.

[00:16:38] Yeah.

[00:16:39] Right.

[00:16:40] So the the Gene Tachovic is only a very short reason.

[00:16:42] That's right.

[00:16:43] Not necessary development, but you're right.

[00:16:45] They've gone exactly in opposite directions.

[00:16:48] It's pretty interesting.

[00:16:51] Reema, what's your first point about this episode?

[00:16:55] Well, it actually matches David's very well.

[00:16:59] The title of my point is actually like what you were

[00:17:01] just saying there, Jason.

[00:17:03] This is what they meant them being the showrunners

[00:17:07] by a fate worse than death.

[00:17:09] Because, you know, so some I wasn't worried so much

[00:17:12] about Kim dying.

[00:17:13] I know there was a lot of folks out there worried that Kim

[00:17:15] might end up dead or whatever.

[00:17:18] But to me this this might have been kind of worse.

[00:17:22] You know, Kim has decided to put herself what I see

[00:17:26] as the self-imposed punishment for her part and her role

[00:17:31] in everything that happened with Howard.

[00:17:34] And it's like she's put herself.

[00:17:36] I thought of it as like permanent doc review when she was

[00:17:40] being punished at HHM.

[00:17:42] It's like because that's what it reminded me of when she was

[00:17:45] at the computer and then when she was, I don't know

[00:17:49] exactly what she was doing, but she was on the phone

[00:17:51] with somebody and she's talking about the parts

[00:17:53] and trying to get some information just seemed like

[00:17:55] this was all just this terribly boring doc review

[00:17:58] kind of process that she was going through.

[00:18:01] Mundane monotonous.

[00:18:02] When she was making copies it reminded me of her

[00:18:05] and Jimmy in the mail room at HHM too.

[00:18:09] I think you're exactly right, Reema.

[00:18:11] So as I said maybe triggered by trauma, but I think

[00:18:15] as you said it's a life self-imposed life sentence.

[00:18:19] I mean I think that she is thinking that this is

[00:18:22] the best life that she deserves.

[00:18:24] You know, she didn't feel worthy of being a lawyer anymore

[00:18:27] of serving, you know, the underrepresented

[00:18:33] as she was doing before.

[00:18:35] She didn't feel worthy to be a representative of the court

[00:18:39] anymore and that this is what she's living is the best

[00:18:42] that she deserves.

[00:18:43] The life of debating Miracle Whip vs Mayo

[00:18:47] and mediocre sex, it's terrible the self-inflicted

[00:18:51] punishment that she's put herself in.

[00:18:54] Mediocre being kind.

[00:18:56] I'm being extremely generous with that.

[00:19:00] Yep, yep, yep.

[00:19:02] Yep, I, that just.

[00:19:05] So funny.

[00:19:07] And then, well like a scene and a half later she's like,

[00:19:12] oh the potato salad worked out pretty good, huh?

[00:19:16] And he goes, yep.

[00:19:18] Same response.

[00:19:21] It's literally a life she would have considered hell.

[00:19:24] Absolutely.

[00:19:25] Oh, you're on.

[00:19:26] Absolutely.

[00:19:27] It was all terrible and she's put herself in a position

[00:19:32] in her life and her job and the people that she's surrounded

[00:19:36] herself with that she doesn't have to make a decision anymore

[00:19:39] because I don't think that she trusts her decision making.

[00:19:42] The decision making that she played a part in

[00:19:45] in Albuquerque when, you know, her and Jimmy

[00:19:48] were going through this whole scheme.

[00:19:50] You know, she was the big push behind so much of that

[00:19:53] and the bigger decision maker.

[00:19:55] And I think that what's happened has, she doesn't,

[00:19:58] like she can't even make a decision on Mayo vs.

[00:20:00] Miracle with vanilla ice cream vs. strawberry.

[00:20:03] You know, every time someone asks her to make a decision

[00:20:05] she's like, hmm, yeah, I don't know.

[00:20:07] What do you think?

[00:20:08] Maybe or I don't know they're both good.

[00:20:11] You know, like she cannot make a decision

[00:20:13] and I just think she doesn't trust herself.

[00:20:15] And it's vanilla vs. strawberry.

[00:20:18] Come on, like I'd be like, how about some,

[00:20:21] I don't know, like mocha almond fudge.

[00:20:24] Yeah, they're both great.

[00:20:26] Both great.

[00:20:29] Yeah, so it was so sad watching Kim in this life

[00:20:35] and it just, it was sad.

[00:20:36] It was depressing.

[00:20:37] You said it really well.

[00:20:38] David, you know, calling it colorless

[00:20:40] and how it's very much, you know, when we watch Jean.

[00:20:43] Because I mean, we know Saul as a larger than life

[00:20:46] character, very colorful and vibrant

[00:20:48] and very loud and boisterous.

[00:20:51] And then, you know, the life Jimmy had as well

[00:20:55] and seeing him as Jean was very,

[00:20:57] I remember the first time we saw Jean, right?

[00:20:59] Better call Saul and it was like, whoa, you know,

[00:21:01] that was, that was, you know, at least for me

[00:21:04] a little unsettling and very different

[00:21:06] and to see how boring and mundane his life was there

[00:21:09] at Cinnabon and in Nebraska

[00:21:11] and his day-to-day monotonous life

[00:21:13] and then we see the same thing with Kim.

[00:21:15] I mean, all the life has just been sucked out of her

[00:21:18] and I was so sad.

[00:21:19] It's like they broke my Kimmy

[00:21:21] and it's like, it reminded me of

[00:21:25] when that flashback scene that we had

[00:21:28] when Kim was young

[00:21:30] and her mother was there at the store

[00:21:34] when she got caught stealing

[00:21:35] and you know, she never got punished for that.

[00:21:37] Her mother didn't punish her

[00:21:39] and it's almost like

[00:21:40] because she never got that punishment in her life

[00:21:42] she's kind of inflicting that on herself.

[00:21:44] She's punishing herself.

[00:21:45] It's like, I save me, you don't save me.

[00:21:49] I punish myself.

[00:21:50] You don't punish me is this kind of thing

[00:21:53] that I was kind of getting from that

[00:21:55] but it was just, you know,

[00:21:57] I thought I found it kind of disturbing

[00:21:58] where she is now living this life

[00:22:00] where she doesn't have to make any calls

[00:22:02] or a choice in anything.

[00:22:05] I just, I thought it was kind of sad.

[00:22:07] That's where she's kind of ended up

[00:22:08] and her life has gotten destroyed.

[00:22:11] I don't know if she'll come out of it.

[00:22:13] Yeah, I just can't.

[00:22:16] I don't see them leaving her in this place.

[00:22:21] I know we'll talk about her confessing to Cheryl

[00:22:24] but the one point I'll bring up right now

[00:22:26] since I feel like it fits into this conversation is

[00:22:29] they made a point for her to say

[00:22:31] she doesn't think she's going to

[00:22:33] or there's seemed like there's a pretty good chance

[00:22:35] she won't be prosecuted

[00:22:36] because there's no physical evidence

[00:22:37] and no witnesses

[00:22:39] and I think the whole reason of bringing that up

[00:22:41] is to just kind of prepare us mentally

[00:22:43] for her not being prosecuted.

[00:22:45] I don't think they're going to turn around

[00:22:46] and have her go to jail after that.

[00:22:48] So, I suspect that we won't just leave her there

[00:22:53] and what did you say?

[00:22:56] Stepford Wives, Bill.

[00:22:59] Maybe.

[00:23:00] I mean, I could see them leave it open-ended though.

[00:23:03] Yeah, maybe.

[00:23:04] I mean, I just think if they were going to leave her there

[00:23:06] then it would have been part of the final episode

[00:23:08] but maybe not.

[00:23:09] I mean, wait, how did this end with her?

[00:23:12] She was on the bus back to at the airport.

[00:23:16] Oh yeah, maybe that could be it.

[00:23:18] We might not even see her.

[00:23:19] I mean, I don't know.

[00:23:20] Again, yeah, I didn't even think about that.

[00:23:23] Yeah.

[00:23:24] I mean, I'd love for that not to be the end.

[00:23:26] I would love for there to be a little bit more of a hopeful.

[00:23:29] I mean, the thought of Kim getting back

[00:23:32] on a plane back to Florida, going back to that life,

[00:23:36] just I hate that.

[00:23:39] But.

[00:23:40] It's just tragic.

[00:23:41] It's so sad.

[00:23:43] The reason why if they do leave her there,

[00:23:46] that it's okay with me even though I'd rather they didn't

[00:23:50] is because she did a bad thing.

[00:23:53] And she does deserve to be some consequences

[00:23:56] for that and for her.

[00:23:58] Do you think she needs more consequences

[00:23:59] than in the last six years?

[00:24:01] No, I don't.

[00:24:03] But I'm just saying like,

[00:24:05] if they don't give her an upbeat ending,

[00:24:07] I could see it.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] I mean, I don't know.

[00:24:10] I just, I don't know if her finally confessing

[00:24:14] and with the affidavit and going before the courts

[00:24:16] and providing that to the prosecutor

[00:24:20] going in front of Cheryl and confessing

[00:24:23] and I don't know if that will be something

[00:24:26] that will help free her a little bit,

[00:24:28] that she won't feel like she has to go back to that life.

[00:24:31] Yeah.

[00:24:32] Maybe that's why she cried.

[00:24:35] Because I wasn't exactly clear on why she broke down crying

[00:24:39] in this moment, unless she just cries all the time.

[00:24:42] I don't think so.

[00:24:43] I think the idea was that now she can cry.

[00:24:45] I think it was six years.

[00:24:46] Because now it's done.

[00:24:47] I don't think she's processed it.

[00:24:49] I think that she just, she went to Florida

[00:24:51] and I think she might have done a little bit

[00:24:54] of compartmentalizing like she did with Saul

[00:24:59] or with Jimmy when they were together.

[00:25:02] Like I said, shrinking away from it.

[00:25:04] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:25:05] I don't think she's truly faced it.

[00:25:06] She's just put herself in a self-imposed punishment.

[00:25:08] I don't think she's really dealt with it.

[00:25:10] I think this was six years of guilt

[00:25:13] that she's carried around and the idea of actually,

[00:25:16] you know, or that she's finally faced it

[00:25:18] and it was probably like a weight lifted.

[00:25:21] Probably.

[00:25:22] Catharsis.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:24] I didn't even think about that, but yeah,

[00:25:25] that middle way that I was talking about

[00:25:27] just facing it and being open.

[00:25:28] Maybe that's exactly what she did do.

[00:25:30] And I've also been saying Jimmy just needs a good cry

[00:25:34] and Kim got hers this time.

[00:25:37] So even though it's painful in the moment,

[00:25:38] I think sometimes we need to process our emotions

[00:25:41] instead of find ways of not having to deal with them.

[00:25:48] Okay.

[00:25:49] So my turn.

[00:25:50] Kim's new life.

[00:25:51] So I'm glad they did this because over the years

[00:25:55] with this show, one of the biggest questions is

[00:25:58] what happens to Kim since she wasn't in Breaking Bad

[00:26:01] and now we get to know.

[00:26:02] So it's satisfying in that way.

[00:26:04] It was shocking how completely different she was.

[00:26:07] Her signature blonde hair and ponytail gone,

[00:26:11] whole different clothes,

[00:26:13] whole different personality pretty much to mirror

[00:26:16] with this bland guy and she's bland too

[00:26:18] and living this low stakes black and white kind of life.

[00:26:23] And I think to me, I didn't feel as much punishing herself,

[00:26:29] although yeah, probably.

[00:26:30] But to me it was more about not trusting herself

[00:26:34] because yeah, everything she did with Howard

[00:26:39] was about following her gut and her instinct

[00:26:43] and now she doesn't want to do that anymore.

[00:26:45] She's putting herself in a position where she can cause no harm

[00:26:48] and she does not trust her own instincts

[00:26:51] and it's like she was such the author of her own life before

[00:26:57] and like you said, I save me.

[00:27:00] You know, she's the one who decides what happens in her life.

[00:27:04] Now she's given up being the author of her life

[00:27:07] and instead shifted over to this standard traditional prescripted

[00:27:11] kind of American life where all the men are over

[00:27:14] in one area talking about epoxy

[00:27:16] and all the women are over talking about devil eggs and stuff,

[00:27:19] you know, and even just her brushing her teeth by herself

[00:27:22] and just reminded me with Jimmy,

[00:27:24] they would have been hanging out together at the party

[00:27:26] and brushing their teeth.

[00:27:27] Yeah, I know.

[00:27:29] They always brush their teeth together.

[00:27:31] Yes, so sad.

[00:27:32] And I loved all how bland and boring.

[00:27:36] I mean it was so bland and boring that it was funny,

[00:27:38] although I did kind of like the boyfriend's tiger t-shirt.

[00:27:43] That's pretty cool.

[00:27:46] Do you think it's her boyfriend or her husband?

[00:27:49] I think it's boyfriend.

[00:27:50] He went home and she was sleeping alone.

[00:27:52] Oh, I didn't even catch that.

[00:27:54] Yeah, and I didn't see a ring on either of them.

[00:27:58] So, okay.

[00:28:00] That's what I thought.

[00:28:01] But they swung to the opposite of extremes.

[00:28:03] Jimmy's with these wild women and he is she comes

[00:28:06] with this safe guy, both without substance.

[00:28:09] And also just to break in,

[00:28:11] I think they saw their divorce in this episode

[00:28:16] in a different part of the timeline.

[00:28:18] And I think you could make the leap that comes like,

[00:28:21] I'm never doing that again.

[00:28:23] Yeah, maybe so, yeah.

[00:28:27] She's doing a puzzle at one point,

[00:28:30] which I like puzzles, but it's kind of you sit at home

[00:28:34] and you're not interacting with anybody.

[00:28:36] And from the angle and the black and whiteness,

[00:28:39] it's like a white, like a white puzzle.

[00:28:42] Well, I feel, I don't know just a theory,

[00:28:47] but to me it did look like one solid color.

[00:28:51] Like, I don't know if it was white because it was black and white.

[00:28:53] It was hard to tell with the light, a lighter color,

[00:28:55] which you can get like solid color puzzles to me.

[00:28:59] That was like still a little piece of the Kim that we know.

[00:29:03] Like the one thing that challenged her in her life

[00:29:05] was having to put together a puzzle that was all one color,

[00:29:08] would be harder to put together.

[00:29:10] So one challenging thing in this life that she's living

[00:29:12] is putting together a solid color puzzle.

[00:29:16] I mean, that's really building up the whole puzzle thing as being,

[00:29:21] for people who like puzzles, they're going to love that you said that.

[00:29:24] But to me it just seemed like part of the whole blandness of all of it.

[00:29:29] It's not just a puzzle, but it's a colorless puzzle.

[00:29:33] Possibly challenging, but it also seemed very meaningless.

[00:29:38] Like it's just an activity that makes time go by.

[00:29:41] Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:42] And talking the details of the Devil Eggs with the other neighborhood women

[00:29:47] and the colors, and that scene totally reminded me of WandaVision.

[00:29:51] And it was interesting going on about the colors, garnet and gold

[00:29:55] in this black-and-white setting.

[00:29:57] Yeah, we've talked through the rest of this, but it was really...

[00:30:04] At the beginning of the podcast, I just...

[00:30:06] I try to usually pick some really dramatic part of the episode

[00:30:10] to put in for the clip.

[00:30:13] And this time I just put Kim and her boyfriend talking about Miracle Whip

[00:30:18] because it really typified it.

[00:30:20] And Miracle Whip, by the way, is a poor substitute for mayonnaise

[00:30:23] and I think that was a commentary on this guy too.

[00:30:26] I mean, this was a story outcome we've been waiting for for literally years.

[00:30:31] So the events of it may not be dramatic, but it was still dramatic.

[00:30:35] It was really...

[00:30:36] It was almost comedic and sad at the same time.

[00:30:39] It's interesting when you can take something that on its face is really dull and boring

[00:30:45] and just make it look like you're watching a horror movie.

[00:30:48] No, Kim, no!

[00:30:51] This show does deadpan funny better than almost any other.

[00:30:56] 100% right.

[00:30:58] Okay, next point, David.

[00:31:01] All right, so let's go on to the Albuquerque part of the episode with Kim

[00:31:06] where a lot of stuff happens in a short time.

[00:31:10] First of all, we see her at the Albuquerque airport,

[00:31:14] which connects back to Breaking Bad

[00:31:17] as these last few episodes of Better Call Saul have, I think, in many ways.

[00:31:22] First time seeing Albuquerque in black and white, I think.

[00:31:26] True.

[00:31:27] And the airport itself is a call out to several different scenes, including...

[00:31:33] It's where Skyler left Walt to go see his mom,

[00:31:36] but then actually Jesse picked him up in the RV so they could go

[00:31:39] four days out for five days.

[00:31:41] Yeah, four days out, they got stuck in the desert.

[00:31:45] Also brings up the plane crash and that whole storyline with the air traffic controller.

[00:31:52] So I think those things come back just by seeing her at the airport.

[00:31:57] So now Kim goes to the courthouse, right?

[00:32:01] That brings up a ton of memories from Better Call Saul

[00:32:04] and some from Breaking Bad of everything that's gone on in the courthouse.

[00:32:09] I mean, the little kind of detail that this show does so well.

[00:32:13] She goes into the parking lot and we find out the parking attendant,

[00:32:17] which is Mike all of those years and so much of the plot revolved around that

[00:32:22] has been replaced by a machine now that Mike is dead.

[00:32:28] Yeah, just it's like, oh, it's so sad and impersonal.

[00:32:35] And that plays into how everything has changed.

[00:32:39] She sees a young like Kim Wexler in the making.

[00:32:44] Coaching her.

[00:32:45] We can imagine has.

[00:32:46] Yeah, has some emotions around that.

[00:32:48] She looked pretty wistful.

[00:32:50] Right.

[00:32:51] Right.

[00:32:52] What her own life could have been if she had made a different choice.

[00:32:56] And then her confession, of course, to Cheryl,

[00:33:03] I think a couple things are going on here and I agree with you both.

[00:33:06] I think on the one hand, Reema, her self punishment is coming to a head.

[00:33:13] I mean, the just being a stepford wife isn't doing it for her.

[00:33:19] And the conversation she has with Saul on the phone triggers the need to actually confront this.

[00:33:25] I think so too.

[00:33:26] Yeah.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:28] And and she confronts it in a painful way.

[00:33:30] One thing I wondered is I wonder if she had been thinking about it for a while,

[00:33:36] wanting to confess to absolve for guilt, do the right thing and everything.

[00:33:40] But, you know, like he said, like Jimmy said, Mike's under in the ground, Gus is in the ground, Lalo, hopefully was in the ground.

[00:33:50] So that's to say you can confess and no one will come after you.

[00:33:55] But then he also said, and I'm OK with it, you know, what are they going to do?

[00:33:59] Arrest me twice.

[00:34:00] Go for it.

[00:34:01] So that I sort of wondered if she had been thinking about it.

[00:34:04] But one reason not to do it was that she would need his permission before she gave him up.

[00:34:09] And now she has it.

[00:34:11] Could be.

[00:34:12] But I also think she's come to the come to the conclusion that, you know, she has to do it because you could see her emotional reaction during that call.

[00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:23] She needed that nudge maybe.

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:28] And the interesting thing in the confession that we learn while she is talking with Cheryl and this scene is so painful.

[00:34:38] As you remember how she just cavalier ly lied to her face at the memorial for Howard and how painful that was for Howard's wife.

[00:34:48] We do learn that Kim still cares about Jimmy because the one lie she still tells is well, the only other witnesses my ex husband assuming he's still alive.

[00:35:03] And that's a lie.

[00:35:04] She knows very well that he's still.

[00:35:06] She's still protecting him.

[00:35:08] Yeah.

[00:35:09] It was painful, but I felt very for me really satisfying to see her.

[00:35:14] I mean, she didn't actually say the confession but hand that paper over into read what she wrote.

[00:35:19] And I just feel like sometimes when the truth is spoken, it just feels good even if it's a painful truth.

[00:35:26] I don't know if that's why, but I felt really satisfied during that scene.

[00:35:31] Yeah.

[00:35:32] And at least for Cheryl as difficult as it is, at least she knows what happened.

[00:35:36] I mean, yeah.

[00:35:37] So there's something there.

[00:35:39] And then concluding with the scene on the bus, I agree with you both.

[00:35:43] I think that was about catharsis and finally coming to grips with the real emotion of this terrible incident that she really has suppressed in least in part for a long time.

[00:36:00] I mean, part of becoming the robot she became in Florida is she's not feeling anything.

[00:36:06] It's a form of depression almost.

[00:36:08] She's suppressing emotions, including the one she can't confront about what happened and also probably about the breakup of her marriage to someone she did really care about.

[00:36:19] And it finally all bubbles up out of her on the bus.

[00:36:24] Yeah.

[00:36:25] Whether or not we see her again in the last episode, I mean, I think they could go either way and follow her story out to another point or let it go there.

[00:36:37] I think you can imagine or I would like to imagine that she is not going to go back to the non-living life that she was living.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:53] And then from this point forward, she's going to become actual Kim Wexler again, whatever form that takes, whatever happens to her.

[00:36:59] It might take a while. Yeah, maybe not happen overnight, but yeah, I think you're right.

[00:37:04] In fact, if they don't show her again, let's just assume that.

[00:37:07] Yeah.

[00:37:08] I mean, there might be consequences of her confession or not.

[00:37:12] You know, I don't know if she would become a lawyer again, but I can imagine if she holds on to her freedom starting to do something again that would help others or make some sort of impact.

[00:37:22] Yeah.

[00:37:23] Be able to trust yourself again and do good in the world.

[00:37:26] It'd be good to see her back in, I know she's not technically a lawyer anymore, but it'd be good to see her do some things still for people in some way, helping the underrepresented or I mean, I don't know, I'm not familiar with that profession and all the different opportunities,

[00:37:43] but it'd be good to see her still kind of doing good for others because I think that's a good way to.

[00:37:48] You're a social worker, yeah.

[00:37:49] Yeah, there's ways to help people and still kind of, you know, if she feels that she has to serve some sort of penance and continued punishment for what she's done, regardless of the Albuquerque court decides to prosecute or press charges or whatever against her.

[00:38:06] There's ways that she can turn that around and at least still help people and she can, because that's what fulfilled her so much before, she could get that fulfillment but also help others at the same time.

[00:38:18] I think she'd be better served.

[00:38:19] I think first thing she needs to do is dump that boyfriend when she gets back, find someone slightly more exciting or at least it doesn't say yep like that during.

[00:38:31] It's a deal breaker.

[00:38:33] There's plenty of people, plenty of ways to make an impact on the world and on people that you don't have to be a lawyer.

[00:38:40] Right.

[00:38:41] It all starts with dumping that.

[00:38:43] Yeah, let's start with that and then say, okay, now let's reevaluate my career choice and do something worthwhile.

[00:38:52] Not that what she's not doing is worthwhile.

[00:38:54] I agree.

[00:38:55] I think, you know, not to dump on anyone who has, you know, I've worked, you know, office jobs that are very similar to that and it's pretty spot on.

[00:39:04] Yeah, me too.

[00:39:05] And so, you know.

[00:39:07] I love when somebody knocked on the cubicle and the other person just passed the whole punch over without a word.

[00:39:12] Someone, I'll say that is so relatable.

[00:39:16] Let me tell you.

[00:39:17] Right.

[00:39:18] So yeah, I mean not to dump on any of that but it's just, it's like you said, it's so tragic to see someone like Kim who has such a brilliant legal mind and you know, that was her resourcefulness.

[00:39:30] Yeah, it's just, it's so wasted this talent that she has in this gift, you know, that she has.

[00:39:36] So hopefully.

[00:39:37] And I mean, she's extremely competent and driven smart talented person.

[00:39:44] One that occurred to me is if she does end up going to jail for what happened with Howard, she could be of a lot of help to fellow inmates in jail.

[00:39:52] She could.

[00:39:53] She could give a lot of help with navigating, you know, the legal system and advice and yeah.

[00:40:02] I wonder if lawyers who yeah, go to prison do end up doing that.

[00:40:06] I bet you they do some of them.

[00:40:07] It's good protection, I bet, you know.

[00:40:10] Yeah, that'd be a valuable skill.

[00:40:12] All right.

[00:40:17] Anything else?

[00:40:18] Oh wait, where was that your point, Reema?

[00:40:20] No, it's your turn, right?

[00:40:22] Well, I'll just add a couple things to what David was talking about with Kim and Albuquerque and you mentioned, you know, callbacks and you know, with breaking bad and one of those when Kim gets to the prison.

[00:40:35] Yeah, she's kind of looking off to the side and the bus is coming from her left.

[00:40:41] There's the Alaska sign, which was really interesting considering we had a KMEO in this episode and knowing that that's where he ended up.

[00:40:53] Yeah.

[00:40:54] And it's like his sort of final destination and maybe where he can be self-actualized.

[00:41:01] So maybe she'll head off that way.

[00:41:03] She's done enough for me.

[00:41:05] She's gonna head to Alaska, maybe.

[00:41:07] Right.

[00:41:08] And it, gosh, seeing Kim back in Albuquerque and then seeing Albuquerque in black and white, it was just very interesting and it was like a funeral and is what I kept.

[00:41:20] It was just sad and tragic when she gets there and she gets to the courthouse and she gets to the gate for the parking garage and it's no longer manned by anyone.

[00:41:37] You know, that was where Mike worked all those years and where they saw Mike like every day.

[00:41:42] And now it's unmanned and that was just like the stark reminder of, oh yeah, you know, we kind of are seeing these results, the aftermath of Breaking Bad.

[00:41:53] And once Mike and everyone was gone, like Jimmy was talking about in the beginning of the episode to Kim.

[00:41:59] Then when Kim is walking into the courthouse and she's outside and she's passing by all the picnic tables and she kind of stops and looks.

[00:42:07] That's the tables where they would often show them out there having lunch and you'd see, you know, them sharing a table.

[00:42:12] She looked over there.

[00:42:13] Yeah, with all the other lawyers and public defenders and everyone were, you know, having their day at the courthouse and they're all out there during their lunch break and they're on their phones and they're talking to each other.

[00:42:22] And then like you mentioned, she sees that other lawyer there in the hall spot on ponytail.

[00:42:29] I mean, it was, I mean, if this woman had had blonde hair, it'd been perfect like mirror image of Kim.

[00:42:37] But it was sad to see Kim in that world and seeing this like defeated and deflated Kim.

[00:42:44] She has lost that confidence, that self-assuredness even when getting in the elevator and she just kind of looks downward.

[00:42:51] I mean, that was not our Kim, you know, at all.

[00:42:54] And it was really hard to see her presented in this way and how broken she is.

[00:42:59] But I just thought it was interesting those couple little callouts that they had and just kind of seeing this aftermath.

[00:43:04] It's so odd kind of seeing this post-breaking bad, you know, world that we're in because it's like we don't know what to expect.

[00:43:11] We don't know what happens next.

[00:43:13] There's no plot armor for anyone.

[00:43:16] But it feels a bit like David was saying last week kind of like a ghost town.

[00:43:20] All these star players are dead now.

[00:43:23] Oh, the glory days are gone.

[00:43:25] Like Mike, these iconic characters, Mike is now a parking machine.

[00:43:30] Like the Saul character in town is this boring ex-prosecutor guy.

[00:43:36] It's like when you go to your high school in summer after senior year and it's just no one's there and you know your friends are all off of college.

[00:43:44] Yeah.

[00:43:45] It's over.

[00:43:46] Sad.

[00:43:47] Sad.

[00:43:48] But I wanted to kind of mention that the KMO and I thought I'd never see these two people ever share screen time and that was Kim and Jesse.

[00:43:59] And with this little scene, it was a short scene, couple minutes.

[00:44:04] Kim did not have a lot of dialogue in the scene.

[00:44:06] It was mostly Jesse.

[00:44:09] But you know, they share some time outside.

[00:44:12] Kim gives him a cigarette while they're outside after she has just signed the divorce papers leaving Saul's office.

[00:44:20] And I thought it was kind of interesting and I'm curious to know what you guys thought.

[00:44:28] You know, as Jesse's talking to her about Saul and you know, I've told him I just don't know if this is a good idea and who comes to a lawyer in this kind of place and these kind of ads.

[00:44:40] And he asks her, is he a good lawyer?

[00:44:45] You know, I think you're or I've seen you around and I think you're a good lawyer wanting to get her opinion.

[00:44:51] And she says when I knew him, he was.

[00:44:55] And I thought it was kind of an interesting line because I wonder if she hadn't said that because I feel like that this, that line is, you know, we were talking about last week when we had the Jesse and Walt cameo and how they first decided to like, how did they pick Saul?

[00:45:16] Because I feel like Saul is an architect in Walt and this whole Heisenberg and everything that happened.

[00:45:22] He was his big player, but it feels like Kim moved them in that direction by telling Jesse, you know, when I knew him, he was so she's essentially telling him that he's a good lawyer.

[00:45:34] So that puts it in Jesse's mind like this is the guy that we need to see.

[00:45:38] So is that what you think put them in front?

[00:45:41] I guess. I mean,

[00:45:42] Well, we do know that he got Emilio off twice.

[00:45:45] And that was going to happen no matter what Kim said because Emilio is already in there.

[00:45:50] Right. That's true.

[00:45:51] I mean, I think, yeah, maybe a little, but I felt this scene was a bit gratuitous and superfluous and kind of a crowd pleaser, but I'm part of the crowd and I was pleased and I liked it.

[00:46:05] And it was interesting because these I have kind of thought that these characters almost serve the same function in their in their own shows.

[00:46:13] They're like the sidekick kind of that grew to be almost like a second lead, you know, and they also, and they're the ones most impacted by the leads.

[00:46:25] And they're the ones that you root for when you don't like the lead character anymore.

[00:46:29] And also this scene, she's all done with Saul at least for now and Jesse's just getting started.

[00:46:37] So there's that dichotomy.

[00:46:38] They're sharing a cigarette, which is another thing they have in common.

[00:46:41] I mean, I just think it was fun for them to share a scene together and Vince Gilliam said by the way, he feels guilty whenever he writes a smoking scene, but it looks so cool.

[00:46:51] He's like, I'm sorry.

[00:46:53] But anyway, even though I don't maybe you guys will change my mind about this, but I don't think it was really necessary scene.

[00:47:02] It was a little gratuitous.

[00:47:03] I'm still glad that they did it because it was fun to see them together.

[00:47:06] Yeah, I think it was more probably, I think you're right.

[00:47:10] It was probably just more fun and it wasn't really meant to drive the story forward or anything.

[00:47:15] It was just interesting for these two characters to share space.

[00:47:19] And I had that in my note too, as far as like, you know, these are two people who wanted out of the game.

[00:47:25] Jesse wanted out later on.

[00:47:27] Yeah.

[00:47:28] Kim wanted out and at this point in their lives when they meet Kim was on her way out while Jesse was going in his way in stepping into that world.

[00:47:40] So it was interesting.

[00:47:41] I just love young Jesse, early Jesse.

[00:47:44] And I missed early Jesse as Jesse got more sort of traumatized and serious.

[00:47:51] And I like the progression of his character too, but I liked when he was all twitchy and restless and he had the kooky dialogue.

[00:47:58] Like here he says this guy Goodman is he the real deal like lawyer wise and just a little turn of phrase like that or compost all the baby Jesus.

[00:48:08] I mean, not like a real baby.

[00:48:09] You know, one of those things outside the church is just funny to hear him.

[00:48:15] I wonder how Ray Seahorn felt doing this scene.

[00:48:17] She must have been like a fan girl.

[00:48:19] I would think she would be but and also his outfit with his he had this crazy jacket and baggy clothes and his cap.

[00:48:28] You know, just I missed that Jesse.

[00:48:30] So even though Aaron Paul's a lot older, I still felt the vibe of it in that scene and I very much enjoyed that.

[00:48:38] Yep.

[00:48:40] And we learned that yeah Kim represented combo at one point and for the Jesus thing and got him off and we see cells representing Emilio which for people who don't know or remember he's crazy eights cousin and Jesse

[00:48:59] and Emilio were meth making partners before Walt came along and Emilio got busted actually by Hank Schrader while Walt was on a ride along.

[00:49:10] And that was all because crazy eight was an informant which we saw how that happened in the medical cell series in earlier seasons.

[00:49:17] So it all is so connected together.

[00:49:19] And that was how Walt and Jesse met.

[00:49:21] Yes.

[00:49:22] Right.

[00:49:23] I mean, they met as teacher and student but that's how they read connected.

[00:49:25] Yeah.

[00:49:26] And that's how when he comes out the window of the window.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:30] And then Emilio and crazy eight.

[00:49:33] Well, it doesn't end so well for either one of them.

[00:49:35] And this is interesting as we've revisited characters in better call Saul the characters that were from Breaking Bad.

[00:49:42] It's always been interesting to kind of see the characters that they kind of bring back and into the world and you mentioned crazy eight.

[00:49:49] You know, the last we saw Emilio was like, see episode one season one of Breaking Bad.

[00:49:55] We this is now the panel.

[00:49:58] I think it was in two.

[00:50:01] In the RV maybe wriggling around in there.

[00:50:04] Yeah, he was in the scene where they blew up something in the RV to poison them.

[00:50:09] Was that an episode one or?

[00:50:12] I don't think that was an episode one.

[00:50:14] Was it?

[00:50:15] I don't know.

[00:50:16] It was early.

[00:50:17] Yeah, it was one of the first couple.

[00:50:19] Maybe it was.

[00:50:20] I'd have to go back.

[00:50:21] I thought it was way back in episode one.

[00:50:24] It could be right.

[00:50:25] Either way, one is interesting.

[00:50:27] I think I believe it was probably right.

[00:50:30] Yeah, probably not.

[00:50:32] Some things really get mixed and meld a little bit in the Breaking Bad world for me sometimes.

[00:50:38] That are just interesting.

[00:50:40] Also, the Breaking Bad episodes are so packed.

[00:50:42] Yes.

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:44] That happens a lot.

[00:50:45] You're like that couldn't all have been in one episode.

[00:50:47] I mean, and I always tell people if you don't like that first episode, you're not going to like Breaking Bad.

[00:50:53] I think that's a good idea to go after that first episode.

[00:50:56] At least that's my opinion because it really has so much of the DNA of the series right there at the beginning.

[00:51:01] Totally.

[00:51:02] I can't wait to go back and rewatch after this show to kind of, you know, we've got this whole backstory of Saul and the evolution and kind of seeing that how if it changes perspective a little bit.

[00:51:17] How we see it totally.

[00:51:20] Okay.

[00:51:21] My next point, I'll go back to Kim's confession.

[00:51:25] I like that she filed this affidavit first because she's very thorough and when she wants to, she goes by the book and dots her eyes and crosses her T's.

[00:51:37] And then when she went to Cheryl, I just loved that whole scene.

[00:51:42] I loved how they presented it showing bits of the text with the camera panning over, but not really showing the whole thing and we're frantically trying to read it.

[00:51:50] And you can kind of get the gist like in the way that when you speed read something, you get different words.

[00:51:55] But then the camera focuses in on the parts related to Howard because that's when it's Cheryl's point of view.

[00:52:01] It's very artfully done.

[00:52:03] But I tried to piece together all the text.

[00:52:06] And here's what I didn't get all of it, but most of it, a lot of it.

[00:52:10] And as shortly after Solomonka's departure, Jimmy and I became began a long term concerted effort to impeach the character of Howard Hamlin.

[00:52:18] We did this in order to accelerate the settlement of the sandpiper crossing class action lawsuit in which Howard served as lead plaintiff's attorney.

[00:52:25] Jimmy is originator of the case would share in the common fund once the lawsuit was settled for personal gain something we faked his cocaine addiction.

[00:52:35] We used a variety of ruses to undermine Howard's reputation and raise a cloud of uncertainty over his professional judgment.

[00:52:42] And then the next part is even less, but I'll do my best during this time at men.

[00:52:47] I now know as Michael airman trout approached something that the settlement was agreed.

[00:52:53] Howard came to our home that the dot infuriated but completely coherent.

[00:52:59] And Solomonka entered our home to something almost immediately gun fired shot in the head.

[00:53:07] Howard died instantly and holding me as a hostage Solomonka something we later learned the target was Gustavo Fring a something dot dot dot camera.

[00:53:19] I was to return with photographic as directed.

[00:53:22] I drove to Fring's house Michael and try to arrive.

[00:53:25] He appeared to have a number of men, blah, blah, blah stay at Fring's house while I'm in trout left later events led me to believe that operation something something Solomonka when I was allowed to return home.

[00:53:38] And then trout something something removing all evidence of Howard's murder Howard something something Howard's body his disappearance was elaborately staged as a suicide.

[00:53:47] So they were still a lot missing but it was interesting.

[00:53:50] I think the most interesting thing to me about it was that she now knows disguised Michael Armartrout and Gustavo Fring you know like afterwards she tried to piece together much of what that was all about as she could I guess.

[00:54:04] You know what else is interesting too is I said that she had offered one little lie.

[00:54:11] Yeah, and that in that scene with Cheryl but it's actually really to in a way and I can understand why this wouldn't be in a confession you give to a prosecutor because what's the point it's not really material.

[00:54:25] But when she said they engaged in this whole activity to impeach Howard's reputation to accelerate the sandpiper settlement.

[00:54:35] That's like a half truth.

[00:54:37] Yeah, I mean that was half of it.

[00:54:39] The other half fit was to take Howard down a peg.

[00:54:41] Yeah, that's right.

[00:54:43] There really were two motivations and for her that may have been like the main thing like the sandpiper settlement.

[00:54:51] Well when we learned she didn't even take the money now we know it's post the guilt and all that stuff but.

[00:54:57] But in the moment I mean because she what she told Jimmy is think what we can do with this sandpiper money and then she got the opportunity to actually do that thing without the sandpiper money and she passed it up.

[00:55:09] Right.

[00:55:11] So you're totally right.

[00:55:13] I don't think that was her main motivation.

[00:55:15] I know in the affidavit she should have said I had a demon that I couldn't shake.

[00:55:19] I was good at it.

[00:55:21] I liked it.

[00:55:23] I wanted more.

[00:55:25] So Cheryl asks her if she'll go to jail and she says you know they may choose not to prosecute and she says like Cheryl says I could sue you in civil court.

[00:55:37] I could take everything you've got and she goes yeah and my sense was she's like I will not fight that at all.

[00:55:43] I deserve whatever you want to throw at me.

[00:55:47] And also she doesn't have anything that to I thought that was powerful in the sense of how meaningless it would be.

[00:55:54] I mean yeah I guess if she ended up on the street I don't know I mean she's resourceful enough to I mean I guess and I felt like that's how Cheryl felt too it's like she's kind of like I could take everything from you but it's meaningless you don't have much and it's not going to make any difference anyway it's not going to bring it.

[00:56:11] Yeah.

[00:56:12] But I also think that Kim would not argue that she wouldn't say I don't have anything she just said yeah.

[00:56:19] I agree.

[00:56:21] I mean and from Cheryl's point of view she doesn't know Kim she doesn't love Kim like we do all she knows is this stranger got her husband killed you know if that was a character in a movie and that's all we knew about.

[00:56:34] We would wonder too well how are they going to get what's coming to them you know so it totally makes sense that Cheryl would go right to that like you're going to go to jail for this right.

[00:56:45] But then yeah she's like why are you doing this she can sense that and it just cuts to black because we know why she's doing it she feels guilty and she wants to set things right and she's even said I want to help restore Howard's reputation which was pretty cool.

[00:57:04] And then she starts crying on the bus yeah I guess we already talked about that and yeah so anyway it was a powerful sequence I think maybe that whole sequence was my favorite part of the episode.

[00:57:16] And now she oh yeah the last thing it just occurred to me like Mike told her clearly you know you don't tell anyone about this and she did end up talking but by that time everyone's dead so it doesn't matter to them.

[00:57:33] It was interesting when they're in the office in Florida and they all go to go sing happy birthday to that girl that girl comes in the office she's like come on it's time to sing and that's like exactly what Kim did she sound like a canary going to Albuquerque after.

[00:57:48] Oh great point.

[00:57:50] She did her own singing there.

[00:57:54] It's time to sing.

[00:57:56] And I'll correct myself.

[00:57:58] I totally misspoke what I am Emilia was last seen in the second episode you're right I I'd meant to say he was introduced in the first episode and yes he was last seen in the second episode but it's I think that that's one of the characters that like goes that far back to breaking bad to this far ahead in the timeline at the

[00:58:21] penultimate episode of Breaking Bad you know we haven't had I don't think that much of a stretch when we've revisited some of these breaking bad characters so I thought that was just kind of interesting but just wanted to make sure that I let you guys know that you were correct.

[00:58:35] Sweet.

[00:58:36] All right next point.

[00:58:37] Blind squirrels nuts.

[00:58:39] So I just quickly wanted to touch on the divorce itself.

[00:58:42] Oh yeah.

[00:58:43] The divorce scene and really what came to mind was sort of the key line of the Breaking Bad episode better call Saul when we first meet Saul is he says conscience gets expensive doesn't it.

[00:58:59] Yes.

[00:59:00] And that that was the whole thing about where they weren't willing to have Badger be killed in prison and they end up paying $80,000 essentially have this other guy take the fall instead of bumping off Badger 50 that went to Saul.

[00:59:16] Yeah.

[00:59:17] Yeah.

[00:59:18] And I think that that quote really sums up this entire episode and where it connects to the divorce scene is we learn that Kim did not take her share of the sandpiper money.

[00:59:29] You know, not surprising given the context of what we've learned about her.

[00:59:33] She feels very guilty.

[00:59:35] She's traumatized.

[00:59:36] She doesn't feel she deserves that money.

[00:59:38] She feels the whole sandpiper episode caused Howard's death and you know, it's where everything went off the rails.

[00:59:44] I think we also learned there that it was not her main motivation.

[00:59:48] Yeah.

[00:59:49] And also I think she doesn't want means she wants she doesn't want to empower herself which is what money does you know, right?

[00:59:56] She's afraid of what she would do with it.

[00:59:58] Agreed.

[00:59:59] It did occur to me that would be a little suspicious like how would you explain a way not wanting the money.

[01:00:05] And I also wondered if the feds ever went to her and asked her about any of the other stuff Saul was involved in, you know after he disappeared and everything because she's not in hiding.

[01:00:15] Yeah.

[01:00:16] It's a good question.

[01:00:17] No, she's not hiding.

[01:00:18] She's under her own name.

[01:00:19] She's got her own name.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:21] And she even says you shouldn't be calling me here which means she thinks she might be under observation.

[01:00:28] I think the other thing we really learned from the divorce scene is how much they still care about each other.

[01:00:34] So obvious in that scene.

[01:00:36] Yeah.

[01:00:37] So she is seeing right with the whole show we spent years saying when is Saul going to become full Saul?

[01:00:44] Well now he is right at the beginning of being full Saul and she sees it.

[01:00:49] Yeah, I thought this was the first scene with Saul and Kim.

[01:00:53] Yeah.

[01:00:54] First and only.

[01:00:55] Yeah.

[01:00:56] Yeah.

[01:00:57] And he is showing it off to her.

[01:00:58] Yeah.

[01:00:59] And he's going out of his way to be like I don't care about anything but money and being a sleazy lawyer, you know who's up next sweet cheeks let's make some money.

[01:01:08] And he's doing that very.

[01:01:11] Dumb his nose.

[01:01:12] Yeah, very purposefully.

[01:01:14] And I think we see how painful the whole thing is for her too.

[01:01:19] But much like the phone call she's not giving him anything.

[01:01:23] Like she's gonna sign that thing.

[01:01:25] I mean she sat there and he was looking through his folder of papers and I almost felt like she was waiting to see if he would be present with her and have it one less goodbye.

[01:01:37] And I actually felt kind of critical of her in that scene because I'm like, dude, you're the one who wanted to do this whole thing with Howard.

[01:01:45] It was too much for Jimmy and you pushed and you guys he finally agreed and you did it and then you abandoned him.

[01:01:54] I have some negative feelings towards Kim about all this, you know.

[01:01:59] Yeah, I mean she was the driving force behind that and now she's behind that caper like I can't you know I don't like who we are together and we hurt people and I'm like well maybe you should try go to a therapist or something like give it a try.

[01:02:11] Gosh.

[01:02:12] Yeah, I mean I think she just feels it's what happened is unrecoverable.

[01:02:16] Yeah.

[01:02:17] Which is understandable.

[01:02:18] Yeah, it is it is.

[01:02:20] But yeah, painful scene and but very instructive of him how much he obviously still cares about her.

[01:02:28] You know, he makes her wait can't even confront her and then at the end he sort of flaunts how much he doesn't care which is the opposite of true.

[01:02:36] And then elsewhere in this episode and from the phone call we learned that it hasn't changed at all six years later.

[01:02:42] So as we speculated that is he still pining for her the whole time.

[01:02:47] I think we learned that yeah, he probably deep down was.

[01:02:51] Yeah, maybe he didn't there were long times where he didn't even think about it just because he was trying to distract himself but it was still there.

[01:02:59] Anything else on that point David?

[01:03:01] Nope.

[01:03:02] Okay, Rima.

[01:03:04] Yeah, that scene was tough.

[01:03:06] Took Saul a whole hour to work his way up to being able to see her.

[01:03:10] I know.

[01:03:11] You know, I mean that tells you right there.

[01:03:14] Is that what he was doing?

[01:03:16] He wasn't like just trying to be a jerk keeping her waiting.

[01:03:18] I mean.

[01:03:19] He was trying to get into Saul persona so they could handle it.

[01:03:22] I think that was more what it was.

[01:03:23] I think that's it.

[01:03:25] I think that there was, you know, a bit of a power play there for him making her wait.

[01:03:31] But I do think that there was part of him that just had to.

[01:03:35] He looked like he had to puff himself up right before he hit that intercom and said, okay, you know, letter in.

[01:03:43] It's like that was, you know, like he was still Saul but there was a little bit of Jimmy still there and then he kind of okay got his Saul back on, you know, and then said, okay, letter in just so he could do that.

[01:03:57] I think there was a bit of a power play there but I also think it was just him, you know, kind of stealing himself a little bit to see her and I'm really, it does not matter at all to the plot or the story.

[01:04:08] I'm just more curious myself what the timeline was from the time when she left him in that episode to here where he went full Saul because he wasn't there yet, you know, when they broke up and when she left and now he is.

[01:04:19] I'm curious.

[01:04:20] I wonder how long that was.

[01:04:22] I read in New Mexico it can take any typical divorce takes anywhere from two to six months to be complete but that's you know just like if it's amicable and went forward from that point and yeah right like from the time of filing and if it's not, you know, contested or if there's you know,

[01:04:41] bought a lot of back and forth. Okay, I wonder I wonder that I'm like I'm assuming it was like amicable between them they're both lawyers they probably don't need to get other lawyers involved or you know any of that stuff and she didn't appear to want anything but I was just like I don't think it was years.

[01:04:55] I don't think it was it seemed like it was fairly recent but I'm just like well I wonder how long it took him to like was it in that instant when he when she left that that was like that moment that really like it was day to night like he woke up the next day and just automatically like became Saul right you know that's

[01:05:13] that's more of what I was like how much time was that it didn't seem like it was very long but.

[01:05:18] And I do think the reason one of the reasons why they put this whole signing the divorce papers in the episode was because on the call between Jimmy and I mean Jean and Kim, he mentioned it was six years since they last saw each other so I think it was when they last saw each other in his office there.

[01:05:37] Yeah, yeah.

[01:05:38] Yeah, well I meant the last time that they from the time that she left no I know to them being in the office.

[01:05:44] Yeah after they broke up.

[01:05:45] But anyway, yeah I mean I think it was a really important scene there.

[01:05:50] I mean I think that's when Kim was just like wow the man I knew is gone you know it's like she told Jesse and I think it was really drawing to see him in full Saul mode and acting like he didn't care and she's not stupid.

[01:06:04] She had to know that that was all an act.

[01:06:08] You know knowing that they still care for each other.

[01:06:11] Yeah, or at least yeah it's hard to call it an act at this point it seems more like a coping mechanism you know and how much of it is voluntary and how much of his reactive and everything but yeah it's a facade I guess you know.

[01:06:25] And I think throwing this ball against the wall was so great because it brought back the cell phone thing and I love that continuity but it's also just what he does when he needs to process or but then when it hit the pillar and fell down it was like styrofoam and it's all about just the facade of Saul.

[01:06:45] Yes, it's the major of justice.

[01:06:49] It's all for show.

[01:06:50] It is for sure.

[01:06:52] Well, my last point you know is I want to kind of talk a little bit about going back to Jean a little bit and just it's so odd seeing how far we've come and this evolvement of this character Jimmy Saul Jean and how I feel like he is very much different character like he definitely has a different character.

[01:07:20] He has a lot of Saul still in him but there was a much more sinister side that was revealed in this episode and you know just as a reminder it was so much has happened.

[01:07:35] I really had to sit back and think about everything that's happened in this whole season only four episodes ago Jimmy was going to sacrifice himself to Lalo just to get Kim out of their house and get her to safety.

[01:07:48] And then after what a handful of months let's say however long it took them to file or her to file papers and get them signed.

[01:07:56] It's have a nice life Kim and to then see him in this world of Jean that he's in to nearly brain a cancer patient with the ashes of his dead dog.

[01:08:11] It's got to be one of the worst things I think we've ever seen him do.

[01:08:16] I mean, and he's done a lot of bad things for sure.

[01:08:20] And it was it was very jarring for me to see him act in this type of way.

[01:08:27] And I talked last week you know when we had the cameo with Walt and I thought it was kind of like a symbol to kind of hold up this mirror to Saul and to Jean to kind of see that he's I think he's very much kind of going down that same path.

[01:08:46] He comes back to his old schemes where he's trying to rob this and he's got a name Mr. Is it Link?

[01:08:54] I don't know.

[01:08:55] I keep calling him cancer man.

[01:08:58] The cancer guy.

[01:08:59] Terrible.

[01:09:00] It's horrible.

[01:09:01] But we get back to where he robs his house and I thought it was really interesting that the amount in his account that Saul found was $737,000 which if you remember go back and think that was the exact amount of money that Walt needed or what he said that he needed to earn from meth

[01:09:22] or making meth to leave to Skyler and the kids and they strike.

[01:09:27] Yeah.

[01:09:28] And that's when he you know he said he swear to stop with drugs once he got to that $737,000 it's all that he wanted to know but what happened greed got the better of him and you know we know how it had to push it for Walt so what does that mean exactly for Jean because there's parallels there to breaking bad

[01:09:49] and you know it seemed like this this cancer man that he was introduced to and that he wants to scheme instead of like him backing down knowing that this guy has cancer it seemed to spin him out of control a little bit and go ahead with this robbery knowing that it's a bad idea

[01:10:07] knowing that he's he's he could very well get caught and he's not thinking clearly and he's not thinking things through and you know the same as like with with Walt you know I never would have imagined when we met Walt in episode one that Walt this goofy Walter White mild mannered

[01:10:25] school teacher would strangle crazy eight just three episodes in and then I never would have thought that I would have seen Jean or Jimmy Saul even getting so close to hitting a guy over the head with his dogs ashes or nearly strangling an elderly woman with a

[01:10:45] phone cord. There was something that Vince Gilligan said which I'll have got the article up here somewhere with what he says about final word about the finale and it I don't know it just I don't think it's going to end very well I'm not feeling as

[01:11:03] hopeful as what I once did about what's going to happen next I don't know just I don't think he's going to get rid of with bullets necessarily like Walt did but I just don't think it's going to end on a happy note at least not unless he gets a last minute jolt of conscience like Kim did or something

[01:11:19] or something but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't know what do you guys think what did Vince Gilligan say he said they asked him one word to what adjective would you use to describe the finale he said earned well earned.

[01:11:35] Oh yeah and what has Saul earned I think I know what he's earned but I don't know anything I'm just speculating you just all of what we're seeing they're definitely painting him as a really bad guy and we're not supposed to like him

[01:11:53] and just like they did with Walt you know Walt they definitely made us see how bad he got at the end too you know so we didn't feel so bad about him dying.

[01:12:03] Yeah I agree that the parallels are quite clear between Saul's arc and Walt's I think what we're really seeing of him in the Omaha portion of this episode is that his crimes have deteriorated

[01:12:22] to the point where they're brutal sloppy stupid risks mean spirited.

[01:12:31] He's working with dark yeah and he's working with this idiot you know he used to have this unbelievable partner in Chicago then he was working with Kim who was they were brilliant together he was an artist

[01:12:45] and they used to talk about the artistry of the crime you know now it's just sad and what made the biggest impression to me in the senior talking about with the ashes it was just the look on his face

[01:13:01] like we have never seen that look on his face before.

[01:13:05] Yeah.

[01:13:06] This look of like.

[01:13:07] It was chilling.

[01:13:08] Silence.

[01:13:09] It was chilling.

[01:13:10] Yeah and in the same thing with Marion with the phone coordinate when he threatens her.

[01:13:16] I think final warning.

[01:13:18] Yeah I think the one piece of hope we have is that he doesn't kill Marion and so there's still a scrap of humanity and I'm somewhere.

[01:13:26] Yeah.

[01:13:27] Yeah.

[01:13:28] A little bit and even handed that thing back to her instead of taking it away right which I thought he was going to rip it right off and I don't know if that meant okay fine tell on me or he didn't think he was going to kill me.

[01:13:40] I think she was going to do it.

[01:13:41] I'm not sure but we're not to that part yet.

[01:13:43] So as far as yeah that scene with Jimmy robbing the guy it was it was really tense and well staged because and also does what this show does so well it plays on your expectations.

[01:14:00] He's looking up the password I'm thinking this guy's going to clock him in the back of the head right because that's what would happen in any other movie and then he but it doesn't happen and then he gets everything he needs but then he starts dicking around and drinking his alcohol and stuff

[01:14:15] and then he gets out of there dude so that that there's that tension there and you see Jeff's been waiting outside for him and stuff and then he looks over the railway or whatever upstairs and sees that the guys code is there but he's gone which reminded me of Michael Myers by the

[01:14:32] And he's like oh shit and then you think okay it's on he knows he's there it's going to be like a battle but no he's just sitting at the bottom of the stairs and then then you think that Jimmy's going to clock him over the head and then he falls over on his phone so just a series of left turns when you expect right

[01:14:50] or at least that's how it was for me and the music and everything the way it was the pacing of it and all it was just really really riveting television.

[01:14:59] Two other little things about this scene one call out to Breaking Bad as he finds the account numbers in a picture frame which is where Gus Fring was keeping his account numbers.

[01:15:11] I thought it was on the bottom of the light like he was I might have seen it wrong he was point looking for the oh and then he found the picture frame and it was at the bottom of the light that he was using to look for it.

[01:15:25] Yeah could be you might be right.

[01:15:27] But anyway it reminded me of the account.

[01:15:31] I think it was supposed to yeah yeah.

[01:15:33] Account numbers and then and now I forgot my other points will go ahead.

[01:15:39] I'm sorry.

[01:15:41] And then of course there were the cops arguing over the fish taco which is really funny and then you see Jeff just take off and run into this car and they both without a word like all right.

[01:15:50] Oh so yeah the other thing I was gonna say is that I think there's also some evidence that he's a little bit where Kim is as well where part of him wants to get caught.

[01:16:01] It feels like it.

[01:16:02] Yeah like he's out and then he goes back in which is a terrible risk and then the same thing with Marion she's like reckless.

[01:16:11] Yeah and he knows Marion's gonna tell on him and he lets her do it.

[01:16:14] So yeah I think he's self is as self hating more self hating than ever right now.

[01:16:21] Yeah he's just like forget.

[01:16:24] Okay well let's talk about Marion I get to be the one to introduce this awesome because it was pretty intense confrontation with Marion and I liked how Jeff seemed like a teenager talking to Jimmy on the phone.

[01:16:38] I mean he lied and said it was his dad you know to mask who he was really calling but even but then when Jimmy said well I'm gonna tell your mom to come down there and he's like okay are you gonna tell her or whatever.

[01:16:54] That's kind of funny.

[01:16:55] But so Marion figures out that he's Saul and one of the listeners was saying they didn't they weren't sure it was believable just because Jean offered to help that she would make the jump to think that he was Saul.

[01:17:14] So I was thinking okay but what does Marion know she knows that her son Jeff used to live in Albuquerque got in with a bad crowd committed some low level crimes.

[01:17:26] And she knows that she made friends with Jean but Jean started to be more interested in hanging out with Jeff.

[01:17:32] And that when last time he was over there with her Jeff came home and she's like Portion stops or whatever it wasn't but Jimmy just like I'm gonna take mine to go and went to hang out with Jeff and buddy in the garage.

[01:17:44] And made up an excuse to see the car and then she looked out the window and saw Jean yelling at them Jeff and telling buddy to shut that damn dog up so she knows that he he's acting different around them and he does her and something's going on out there with them.

[01:17:58] And then now Jeff gets in trouble with the law and calls Jean first and the biggest thing he for some reason knows how bail bonds work in Albuquerque so that really made the connection like alright I'm afraid of these people that Jeff got mixed up with Albuquerque.

[01:18:14] And then she now maybe Jimmy and Jeff have an Albuquerque connection that something's going on with them. And if they already had this connection then what does that say about how she met Jean like was just like hoax or con to get close to Jeff again.

[01:18:29] So that's what got her all suspicious and checking asked jeeps.

[01:18:35] I love that. Asked jeeps told me such a little period.

[01:18:39] It's hilarious.

[01:18:41] So then yeah he comes over and she's all nervous closing your laptop and he forces it open and sees that she's looking at his better call saw commercial.

[01:18:53] And of course that was really cool because you could see the reflection of it in his glasses in color.

[01:18:58] It was like the best I think one of the best shots in TV ever in this black and white world and we see the color of one of his old better call saw commercials.

[01:19:09] It was just beautifully shot.

[01:19:11] It's a great still that's from the color world.

[01:19:14] Yeah.

[01:19:16] That's when life used to be fun.

[01:19:18] And then he tries to tell her oh you think that you think that's me don't you it's not me and she doesn't even bother addressing that she just says there was never a Nipi was there.

[01:19:26] And one thing I don't know one thing that never quite set right with me early better call Saul is they were trying to paint Jimmy as he has a good heart.

[01:19:37] He's helping elderly people.

[01:19:39] I think that was their intention but I feel like he talked down to them sometimes and I think he loved them but I thought he he just talked to them like there were children and and I don't think that was necessarily the right intention but that's how it came off and maybe this is all speculation

[01:19:56] because I realized it came off that way so they kind of baked it into the story that Jimmy underestimates these people and that's going to bite him in the ass at the end here.

[01:20:05] And so so it's poetic justice that he underestimated Marion like he used to underestimate or even if that's not the case he still did underestimate Marion.

[01:20:18] He taught her how to use as Jeeves and she she used that and there's a lot of irony in all this stuff like his beloved commercial ends up being key to it.

[01:20:26] And so it was downfall teaching her how to use as Jeeves got him in trouble that he started in elder cow law and now it gets told on through one of these lifeline devices.

[01:20:37] And I also just think it's ironic that these two comedy icons are doing a really dramatic good dramatic scene together.

[01:20:45] Carol Burnett was fantastic.

[01:20:47] The look on her face.

[01:20:49] She was just wonderful when she looked him down the eye and said I trusted you.

[01:20:56] Oh man.

[01:20:58] And that's what did it for him I think.

[01:21:01] But before we get to that so she yeah Jimmy says what did Jeff tell you and she he didn't tell me anything asked you.

[01:21:07] And I was wondering what did she search for.

[01:21:11] I was thinking slick Albuquerque lawyer but then she says it right out con man in Albuquerque.

[01:21:15] And so if you go to con man Albuquerque dot com now you get that commercial you can see a video of it.

[01:21:22] And if you go to ask Jeeves dot com and you search for con man Albuquerque the first item that comes up is mature quality singles dot com slash dating slash site.

[01:21:33] I don't think that they wanted that to come up but that was the first thing that came up.

[01:21:38] But yeah so she says she's going to call the police and then he ripped the phone cord.

[01:21:44] Let me help you with that and rip the cord out of the wall.

[01:21:46] It felt like something out of the shining at this point.

[01:21:49] You know or actually she's saying what did you get my son into.

[01:21:55] He goes nothing he didn't ask for.

[01:21:57] He's getting intense and then he's wrapping the phone cord around each hand as he's saying now listen I'm still the good friend you thought I was OK.

[01:22:05] And this feels like a horror movie here.

[01:22:08] This is we've never seen him like this even even when he was going to hit the guy with the urn that was bad but this is worse.

[01:22:16] It's just as bad at least it's horrible.

[01:22:19] And I thought maybe he was going to tire up but on better cross all inside of Vince Gilligan seemed to suggest he was about to kill her strangle her.

[01:22:29] And then she pulls out that device and he goes put that down do not do it Marion final warning.

[01:22:35] And it's like what does that mean it means he's going to kill her if she does it.

[01:22:39] And then like you said Rima she says I trusted you and I think he's softened just that little bit.

[01:22:45] And then Marion this is Valerie with life alert are you OK.

[01:22:49] No Valerie I'm not OK there's a criminal standing in my kitchen threatening me he's a wanted man and his name is Saul Goodman.

[01:22:54] So she got all the necessary info out quick enough for.

[01:23:00] He has to be on the run now like he can't stay there as Jean anymore.

[01:23:06] So I know that was intense man super kind of predicted that something like this would happen but it was just done so well and.

[01:23:15] It's another one of those instances I think this whole episode where I feel like giddy about how great it is as a as TV great TV but also just horrified by seeing Jimmy do that to somebody.

[01:23:29] Yeah we've never seen him do anything like that and it was just very just this decline in his character.

[01:23:38] It was just jarring because and I don't disagree with what I want to just mention a point where you were talking about where Jimmy would talk down to some of the elderly people that he represented.

[01:23:51] And I don't disagree with that I think that he did or he would say things that would get him what he wanted to get them to do what he wanted them to do to help him in his career and what he what he wanted out of that situation.

[01:24:04] But I do feel he did very much have a soft spot for a lot of the people that he represented there was a scene.

[01:24:12] Absolutely where one of the people that he represented he drew up their will and he had learned that they had passed on and he remembered her name.

[01:24:20] You remember the conversations and everything that happened with her family all the conversations.

[01:24:24] Yeah and he was moved by it so there were two sides to him that I don't disagree with.

[01:24:29] I think he likes Marion.

[01:24:30] He likes Marion too.

[01:24:31] He genuinely does.

[01:24:32] Yeah I'm not saying that that no I'm just it just seems like he underestimated them sometimes and I don't think that that was their intention when they were writing it but I felt a little uncomfortable with the way he was talking to them early on when I don't think that's what the writers meant.

[01:24:47] But I wonder if maybe they picked up on that and realized that that's what they were doing.

[01:24:52] I don't know could just be making that all up.

[01:24:55] Yeah I'm not sure.

[01:24:56] But yeah but Marion's you know she she figured him out.

[01:25:01] She's a smart lady and she she did she knew everything I mean she had that commercial up but when she talked to Valerie she's like he's a wanted man so she not just found the commercial she found out everything.

[01:25:16] I can't imagine what came up on research you know reading all of that and what Saul you know was associated with and wanted for and was wanted for.

[01:25:29] So that was probably very scary for her she handled it very well she was very calm I don't think I could have been one thing calm as her.

[01:25:37] Yeah as I'm thinking about it didn't she know he was on his way over there.

[01:25:41] You think I was going to say she could have called the cops before I thought that's what was actually going to happen.

[01:25:48] I thought that they were like OK we're going to hide out in the room over here going to be fine will protect you.

[01:25:53] We're going to be back here in the back or something and we want him like here not expecting anything and then they I expected that he was going to like be taken down in that moment it didn't happen exactly as I thought but you know I think he could read it as she wanted to confront him.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:14] And then he turned out to be worse than she thought because he is dangerous yeah right maybe she underestimated him just a little bit and how.

[01:26:24] Yeah I think she thinks of him she thinks of him as a nonviolent con man and it turns out he is not the same he's dangerous.

[01:26:32] Yeah he's got nothing to lose so.

[01:26:35] Yeah.

[01:26:36] Yeah.

[01:26:38] All right let's get into notes David.

[01:26:41] OK so so often as you both know in the course of this show I've talked a lot about how they called back to Breaking Bad often through the electric blue that ran through the show or other symbolism or Easter eggs.

[01:26:59] You haven't been doing that as much as we haven't had any blue talk with all the black and white.

[01:27:04] Yeah I think they I think they've dropped that out of the show really even in the color segments but it really was more at the beginning of season six.

[01:27:13] But I think what has grown and really reached a crescendo in this episode was the movie connections.

[01:27:22] So I think this is a writing group led by Vince Gilligan that really love their movies love movie history and TV history.

[01:27:33] And I think they're taking their opportunity really to make some of those call outs to movies that were influential to them.

[01:27:41] As their careers develop so there was a bunch of them in this episode so the it starts with Saul bouncing the ball in his office.

[01:27:50] So that's a I would say very direct call out to a famous scene in The Great Escape where Steve McQueen is sent to the hole or to ISO or whatever for escape attempts and he's got his glove in a ball and he's bouncing the ball and that's how he passes the time.

[01:28:06] So that one was very direct and that's a World War two ensemble cast movie very similar to The Dirty Dozen which we saw very directly called out two episodes ago.

[01:28:18] And you know I never made this connection before but you're so right about them being film buffs and film fans the writers of the show they talk about it a lot on the Better Call Saul Insider podcast.

[01:28:26] And I bet you that's why they made Kim and Jimmy film fans to just so that they got to explore that with their characters.

[01:28:35] And because Jimmy is such a film fan too I could see that he decided to do that ball bouncing thing in the cell phone store because he liked The Great Escape you know.

[01:28:46] Totally agreed.

[01:28:48] Yeah he knows what that what that is and what it means I mean in this case what he's great escaping from as his marriage.

[01:28:56] But but but there is no escape from the whole Howard situation and everything that passed between them and that's true in The Great Escape too that ends up disastrously for all the for most of the characters.

[01:29:10] So that was one but there were there were some other I thought pretty direct movie call outs.

[01:29:21] The scene in which Jean is trapped in the house where he is committing the burglary and he's in the upstairs and the guy wakes up and he's in the downstairs is a pretty direct analogy to north by northwest.

[01:29:40] Have you two seen that movie old Hitchcock movie.

[01:29:44] I think it's been a long time since I've seen that.

[01:29:46] Yeah the most famous scene in that movie is the one in the cornfield with the crop.

[01:29:51] Yeah where he's from the crop duster but the whole climax of that movie he has to climb into this very architecturally striking house where even where he's saying is about to get on a plane with the bad guys and go behind the iron curtain.

[01:30:09] And he's sort of trapped in the upstairs she's downstairs with them and he has to throw a book of matches down to get her attention.

[01:30:17] But it's all very much structured the way the scene was it looked very much like it visually with him in the upstairs and the other guy in the downstairs so that reminded me pretty directly.

[01:30:29] I felt like there was some call outs to Fargo in this whole sequence in Omaha maybe not quite as direct but it's a Fargo mood with with the sort of idiot cab driver that he's working with who like crashes his car for no reason right in front of a couple of cops.

[01:30:51] That was a very funny funny part watching his.

[01:30:54] Yeah and this whole stupid crime that gets worse and worse and more and more brutal.

[01:31:01] So I have a feeling they like some of the Coen Brothers movies in Fargo.

[01:31:07] I felt there was some office space in the whole Comco sprinklers.

[01:31:13] Like you mentioned the knock on the wall and the the hole punch or like the stupid birthday scene with the cake birthday cards and yeah.

[01:31:24] And that was all very office space and I've had a couple of things that people wrote and it was all just the most mundane you know like hope you have a good one.

[01:31:35] The cards said you're perfect and I'm not kitten.

[01:31:42] It was like it was like when Mike was in had to work at magical and they did the same thing passing a birthday card it was a card very similar to what Mike had to sign when he was working.

[01:31:53] Right.

[01:31:55] But the really the biggest one to me and this was Goodfellas.

[01:32:01] And I think this whole plotline of both Jean and Kim in this colorless world where they used to be these larger than life characters having these fun crazy adventures in crime back in their Albuquerque days.

[01:32:22] And now they're just like these shmows living this these colorless lives and it very closely parallels the end of Goodfellas when Henry Hill.

[01:32:33] Yeah he testifies against everybody and he goes into the witness protection program and then he's just like a shmo.

[01:32:41] And the last line of Goodfellas is Henry Hill saying to the camera today everything is different there's no action I have to wait around like everyone else can't even get decent food.

[01:32:54] Right after I got here I ordered spaghetti with marinara sauce and I got egg noodles and ketchup.

[01:32:59] I'm an average nobody get to live the rest of my life like a schnuck in a way worse than death for him.

[01:33:08] And I think that sums up this whole where Saul has ended up.

[01:33:13] Excellent movie by the way but yeah very very good parallel there.

[01:33:18] Like it.

[01:33:20] Okay Rima.

[01:33:21] Well the one note that I had more of an Easter egg the cancer guy and I'm so sorry that I keep saying that he had a coca-cola desk like Jimmy had.

[01:33:33] Yeah that's a great one.

[01:33:37] Yeah that is good because it seems like he misses the trappings I mean it goes right along with what David was just saying he misses the trappings of his old life.

[01:33:45] And that felt like that was another reason why he was sticking around having the fancy whiskey and the watches.

[01:33:54] The cigar.

[01:33:56] Yeah the desk yeah.

[01:33:58] Yep just thought that was fun I loved it just I dig all the Easter eggs hopefully maybe after we get to the finale get a whole list of everything that we've had in the series from Breaking Bad but definitely from this.

[01:34:11] He took the desk right that's the desk he had in his office all those years.

[01:34:16] Yeah I think so that's the one thing you took from Davis and Maine.

[01:34:20] Yep I think so yeah.

[01:34:22] And we saw it at his house in the first season.

[01:34:28] Yeah when they were seizing his property yeah they had the desk.

[01:34:31] Yeah I had a few notes I like the song The Tide Is High and Jimmy you know Blondie's The Tide Is High.

[01:34:43] And I think it's sort of him being carefree to the point of being in denial but maybe the song is also about like things are tough right now but I don't give up no matter what.

[01:34:54] And I love that he sings it very badly because they have to stay consistent with that given how bad he is a karaoke.

[01:35:03] I betcha that Bob Orenkirk does not sing that badly normally has to work at it.

[01:35:12] I thought it was pretty hilarious when they were talking about drugs the women.

[01:35:18] What happened to crack?

[01:35:19] Where's crack now what happened to crack and then they talked about why do they need pacifiers when you're on ecstasy and she goes don't you think if you ran a store and some teenager came in your store and tried to buy a pacifier don't you think you'd call the police.

[01:35:33] I sure would.

[01:35:35] I feel like that's when like Kim made this hard turn into the tuna salad and the miracle whip again like not with her experience and all of that.

[01:35:45] Yeah.

[01:35:47] Yeah how many drug clients did she defend back in her day.

[01:35:51] Yeah come on and then my usual interesting elements of this week's Better Call Saul insider they mentioned that poor Aaron Paul had a migraine the night he filmed this Jesse scene which is a bummer because I would have liked to have seen how it would have been if he didn't I mean migraines are the worst.

[01:36:13] I believe it was the woman whose hand touches Kim shoulder on the bus.

[01:36:20] That's Vince Gilligan's longtime girlfriend Holly Rice.

[01:36:24] Oh really.

[01:36:26] She's never been on the show before but she got to be on it.

[01:36:28] I've heard him talk about her a gazillion times on the podcast.

[01:36:32] So that's interesting.

[01:36:34] Yeah and he also said that when they have sex he always says yep no just kidding.

[01:36:39] I don't know.

[01:36:40] I don't know.

[01:36:42] What inspired that.

[01:36:45] Where did that come from because someone share a terrible sexual experience or something because damn.

[01:36:51] He's like I got to show some really bad sex here what should I do.

[01:36:56] I want to talk about that with the writers but where would it be from.

[01:37:00] It seemed like she was just enduring it really.

[01:37:03] Like oh god.

[01:37:04] I mean I feel like she yeah she was more than happy to let him go for the night so she could handle things herself after after he was gone.

[01:37:15] Vince Gilligan mentioned that in this business of entertainment they always just throw tons of compliments at each other on that podcast but they're talented so they deserve it but he said in this business you need talent you need to be hard working you need to have enthusiasm and a positive attitude.

[01:37:34] And he really emphasized that part how like everybody's positive attitudes really make it make this whole thing work.

[01:37:44] And I thought that was pretty pretty interesting you know you really need to have a can do positive attitude to work in that business.

[01:37:53] And they all have that on the podcast for sure.

[01:37:56] And the last thing is they mentioned that this is Vince Gilligan's last episode of Better Call Saul of course.

[01:38:03] He wrote and directed it and also that it was the first episode of TV he wrote all by himself since the Breaking Bad finale.

[01:38:11] Wow.

[01:38:13] I'm not counting the what do you call it the Jesse movie El Camino El Camino.

[01:38:19] I love Vince Gilligan.

[01:38:21] I've been a fan of his since X-Files.

[01:38:23] You know that's that's when I knew him and and grew to love him.

[01:38:28] And of course we're him and Brian Cranston work together.

[01:38:31] You know that was one of my favorite episodes drive.

[01:38:34] Believe it was from X-Files where Brian Cranston was there and Vince Gilligan wrote.

[01:38:41] I don't remember that I'm gonna have to go watch that he did.

[01:38:44] He did.

[01:38:46] I didn't watch X-Files much so I don't know it that well but I know because I'm a huge Vince Gilligan fan that he tended to do the one and done episodes.

[01:38:55] Monster of the Week I guess.

[01:38:57] Yeah there weren't a lot of conspiracy.

[01:38:59] Yeah there was the two groupings there was like yeah the monster of the week or the one offs and then there were conspiracy ones.

[01:39:05] Yeah.

[01:39:07] I thought that show that show got a little frustrating with the conspiracy thing for me at least.

[01:39:11] Yeah everything in the world was part of this conspiracy.

[01:39:15] But I loved one of the episodes.

[01:39:19] And he was behind that spin off the lone gunman him and one of the other Tom Schnauz maybe or one of the other writers which I heard was good but just didn't fly for whatever reason.

[01:39:31] But he's so I love his style so much.

[01:39:35] He's so meticulous what bothers the hell out of me about TV and movies is when things don't make sense and the dots don't connect and the writers don't seem to care.

[01:39:44] That's why I love these pitch meeting videos on YouTube where the guy this comedian Ryan George just points out all the stupid things in movies but does it in a really fun way.

[01:39:53] But anyway Vince Gilligan like he makes my favorite show Breaking Bad probably my favorite show at least top five and he's so good at it and he's just such a cool guy on the podcast.

[01:40:06] He gives all these people opportunities and he's got this great attitude and yeah just great guy.

[01:40:13] I can't wait to see what they do next.

[01:40:15] I hope he can find something else where he can really put his talent to use like he has on these shows.

[01:40:18] I can't wait to see what he does.

[01:40:21] I would love to hang out with Vince Gilligan Vince if you're listening to this give me a call and hang out like have a beer because he seems so cool.

[01:40:29] That'd be so cool.

[01:40:31] I mean and I've listened.

[01:40:33] I missed this last insider podcast but you know I listened to it back when Breaking Bad was on and I would listen to it devotedly and you know of course you feel like you get to know them really well and just to hear like you said the positive attitude

[01:40:45] and accolades that he gives everyone you know because he's like you know because they everybody's like praising him and he's like hey I'm just a little piece of this you know he always kind of makes sure to spread the love and the recognition to everyone that everyone has a part to play and making not just Breaking Bad but now better call Saul such a great show.

[01:41:02] And you know and then the opportunities that they would give to people like I follow one of the writers she started out as it just a PA like a writer's assistant and production assistant Jennifer Hushington.

[01:41:14] And now and then she ended up being a full time writer and then she was a writer on Better Call Saul and then she has excelled like they were very good about recognizing that talent and grooming that and bringing that out into people and giving them better opportunities and.

[01:41:28] And what's her name Kelly Dixon Dixon who started the Better Call Saul Insider and was an editor and was famous for doing those amazing montages montages in Breaking Bad of meth making and stuff.

[01:41:40] She's now like she did Obi Wan Kenobi and she's doing Marvel stuff and everything.

[01:41:45] Yeah so yeah it's a little bit sad to see it all kind of come to an end.

[01:41:52] But Vince being such a great guy you also have to remember that from his mind spraying some of the most like you know depraved things we've seen on TV so.

[01:42:02] I was just thinking about that he's this great guy right now these terrible people.

[01:42:07] I love it because.

[01:42:11] Anything else nope all right we'll take a little break there is more to come stay with us.

[01:42:36] All right we're back it's time for some news.

[01:42:50] Okay one item from up rocks dot com so if you're interested on August 15th the day of the series finale a Cinnabon is going to give away a free treat in honor of the conclusion of what I consider the best show on the show.

[01:43:06] On TV so that Monday better call Saul fans can get a free center of the role which is what they describe as the Ui Gui center of the brand's classic cinnamon roll.

[01:43:20] There's a coupon code that you can use it the coupon code is call Saul and you have to order through the Cinnabon app.

[01:43:29] So to unlock the offer you go to the Cinnabon app you sign into Cinnabon rewards you tap unlock a code and enter call Saul.

[01:43:38] So I love that this is why you listen to this show people.

[01:43:43] Right finally got to the part yeah actually you finally got to the GUI center of our pie.

[01:43:48] I'm bringing all of the hard hitting news here you're welcome.

[01:43:53] So I'm down for it I'm gonna have to find my way to Cinnabon that Monday I don't have one close by find one.

[01:44:02] There was an interview with Vince Gilligan and Rolling Stone I thought this was interesting because it's kind of tells a little bit about how they break the stories and how far ahead they get.

[01:44:12] They say you and Peter always say that you can only see two inches in front of your face as the show is being plotted.

[01:44:18] So what at point what at what point and how did you figure out what was going to happen to Kim.

[01:44:23] He said the same way we always did we just work out two inches ahead of our noses I think it could have gone any which way but there are probably also was an element of us being loathed to kill her off character.

[01:44:34] There were so many elements of this story that were preordained you can't kill off Jim and McGill in his own show.

[01:44:41] You can't kill off any character whom we know the feta from Breaking Bad but with Kim the sky was the limit I guess it just didn't feel right to kill her off that was probably never on the table honestly.

[01:44:51] We certainly kept silently smiling while people stopped us on the street and said you're going to kill Kim aren't you.

[01:44:56] We let people think that maybe we would but none of us wanted to do it but we figured out where she wound up.

[01:45:02] It was in little baby steps little fits and starts like every other bit of plotting that we do.

[01:45:08] Yeah that's cool.

[01:45:10] Yeah they then go on these episodes take place after Breaking Bad and after El Camino as of now they are the chronological end of the story.

[01:45:18] Do you see this as if for this do you see this as it for the fictional universe or could you imagine revisiting it.

[01:45:26] I can definitely imagine revisiting it selfishly I'd like to do so to keep this thing going but without naming any names.

[01:45:33] I look around at some of the worlds the universe is the stories that I love whether they're on TV or in the movies and I think there's a certain point and it's hard to define where you've done too much in the same universe just leave it alone.

[01:45:44] And some universes are much bigger and more elastic ours is a very small one Albuquerque New Mexico versus some of these worlds and series of movies and TV shows.

[01:45:53] The main thing I'm scared of is becoming too much of a one trick pony.

[01:45:58] Yes I could do more with this universe and maybe someday I will especially if I fail at everything that comes next.

[01:46:04] Then I'll come very honest.

[01:46:08] Yes he is very honest this is so Vince I can see Vince all in this interview.

[01:46:14] He said then I'll come crawling back but right now whether there's more room to grow or not and there probably is I feel like it's time to do something new.

[01:46:23] I wonder if he's talking about walking dead.

[01:46:26] Yeah I'm glad to hear him say that because there's a new walking dead starting up right and a different show.

[01:46:35] There's a few.

[01:46:37] So I haven't kept up with that but we saw the commercials for it during Better Call Saul the other night and it was just like come on.

[01:46:45] I mean literally for zombies let it die.

[01:46:48] And I think if anything's going to keep going on it is kind of.

[01:46:54] That is true but for this I mean it's against the odds that you could already make two great shows in the universe as small as this.

[01:47:03] I hope they don't try to keep going like it's good.

[01:47:06] Yeah they let it go.

[01:47:07] Yeah and also it is a good plan to go try and do something else and even just to give yourself time like if it didn't succeed but he had a couple of years of time to let something else in this universe gestate.

[01:47:25] It would probably be better sometimes people just need to take a break and wait and recharge you know musicians I feel that way about too when they come out with too many albums in a row then they start to feel stale or too samey.

[01:47:37] They just need to take some time away and do something else.

[01:47:40] Yep.

[01:47:42] This is also a universe where they've killed off just about everybody.

[01:47:46] Yeah who's left.

[01:47:48] Over from scratch.

[01:47:50] Yeah yeah.

[01:47:52] And as much as I love both these shows they have the same plot almost.

[01:47:58] Yeah.

[01:48:00] So I wonder can you guys do something else.

[01:48:03] It's amazing how good they were able to make a whole second show out of this and really it's because the characters are so strong.

[01:48:11] Yes absolutely.

[01:48:13] And they know good filmmaking too.

[01:48:15] They do.

[01:48:17] One last item of note for anyone interested they are going to have an auction of this Better Call Saul's most iconic props and costumes soon after the series is over.

[01:48:29] See it's on August let's see.

[01:48:32] Oh August 18th to September 1st.

[01:48:35] Prop stores auction will take place right after the finale which airs on August 15th.

[01:48:42] So yep August 18th to September 1 it's an online format that will allow anyone access across the globe to get their hands on some of those collectibles as for items in question there's something to fit almost everyone.

[01:48:55] There will be Marco Salamanca's Skull Tip Boots which is expected to get anywhere between 1500 to $2,500.

[01:49:04] Jimmy's World's Second Best Lawyer Mug no bullet hole version.

[01:49:09] Which will range they think between two to three thousand I would love to have that but I'm not bidding $2,000.

[01:49:15] I think those items are going to go for way more.

[01:49:18] I think they're going to go way more than that.

[01:49:20] That's what they're looking at.

[01:49:22] Are you kidding me?

[01:49:24] Well I'm not going to put it in the show notes just in case we have any big spenders and by the way my Patreon is patreon.com.

[01:49:32] I'll give you my Venmo if you want to swing somebody my way so I can bid on these.

[01:49:38] But seriously I'll put it in the show notes.

[01:49:40] The next time you see me on the zoom there will be pillars behind me.

[01:49:45] Oh my god that would be so great to have this whole cathedral of justice.

[01:49:49] So also some poyos, harmonas, merchandising which will be available as well.

[01:49:58] And then Gus Fring's sober attire going for at least 1500.

[01:50:03] And there's also a few other noteworthy items.

[01:50:07] Jimmy's starter kit from his short lived days at David and Maine or Davis and Maine sorry.

[01:50:12] Chuck's anti-static space blanket.

[01:50:14] Some of Jimmy's burner phones will also be there.

[01:50:20] But you can also I think that you can just sign up as well.

[01:50:24] I'll send the link.

[01:50:26] I think that you're able if you want to just go register even if you can't actually participate in the auction.

[01:50:31] If you can't afford like the starting bids they're still if you just sign up they're going to give away like free gifts to people that even just sign up on the auction.

[01:50:38] So I'll give out I'll give the link to Jason and you can post it in the show notes if you just want to go sign up and watch the fun and maybe get a chance to win a free gift for signing up.

[01:50:49] That's cool.

[01:50:51] Yeah, I remember when Ash received all dead ended and I went to their auction I was going to try to get an echronomicon but they were just going for too much money so those things you got to really want it.

[01:51:02] You got to really want to have some deep pockets.

[01:51:05] You can find good replicas out there.

[01:51:06] Yep.

[01:51:08] Yeah.

[01:51:10] All right, let's get into some listener feedback.

[01:51:12] David.

[01:51:14] David Gardner says another awesome episode never expected to see Kim in this way the events have shaken her up a bit more than it appeared when she left.

[01:51:23] Not sure what the time frame is for it's been six years that Saul mentioned.

[01:51:28] I still have no idea what's going to happen.

[01:51:31] Everything that seemed obvious is just not working out that way.

[01:51:33] Love seeing Jesse pop up.

[01:51:35] That was incredible.

[01:51:37] He seemed to be more Jesse than in the other scene with Walton Saul in the RV in the desert.

[01:51:41] Yeah.

[01:51:43] Can't wait for Monday but not really not looking forward to next Tuesday when there's no more new Saul.

[01:51:48] Amen to that.

[01:51:50] Yeah, I guess that was aside from there was some webisode or something where they showed a younger Jesse this scene was the earliest Jesse we've seen in the timeline.

[01:51:59] And by the way David if you're not sure about that it's been six years neither is Bob Odin Kirk.

[01:52:08] And he even said the line it's been six years.

[01:52:11] Yeah.

[01:52:13] Well, it's been a while though since they filmed.

[01:52:15] Yep.

[01:52:17] Gijo Putilla says the writers of this show are so creative.

[01:52:20] I don't think anyone could have guessed that Kim would have confessed.

[01:52:23] I think the whole thing happened with Howard was a conversation or sorry a conversion experience like Jules from Pulp Fiction.

[01:52:32] I really respected what she did.

[01:52:34] Kim did the right thing regardless of how painful it was.

[01:52:37] On the other hand Saul has gone completely the opposite way.

[01:52:40] I'm so glad he did not strangle Marion that would have been vile.

[01:52:43] I can't wait to see next week again the writers are out of the box amazing.

[01:52:48] Sorry I put my glasses on.

[01:52:49] But that Marion scene really shows.

[01:52:52] Okay they really gave Carol Burnett something meaty to do if it had just been that first episode it would have seemed not made as much sense but yeah it's good.

[01:53:04] Yes.

[01:53:06] Oh my turn.

[01:53:08] Christian Crabtri says I'm so glad we got Kim back but her Florida life is so sad.

[01:53:11] Miracle whip is never okay.

[01:53:14] I don't mind it.

[01:53:16] Kim and Jesse together I love that conversation.

[01:53:19] Go have some fun and Google or ask Jeeves Albuquerque con man.

[01:53:23] That's what you I got your message that's when I went and checked asked you so thanks Kristen.

[01:53:29] Nice from Ronaldo Caliste.

[01:53:32] I think Jimmy's mom did Jimmy a disservice by enabling him.

[01:53:37] This issue reminds me of Chuck's infamous chicanery rant ever since he was nine always the same couldn't keep his hands out of the cash drawer but not our Jimmy couldn't be precious Jimmy.

[01:53:49] Chuck mimicking his mom during the rant.

[01:53:53] Marion on the other hand was willing to let Jeff stay in jail and not allow that situation to be used against her by Jimmy.

[01:54:01] This is place Jimmy and if we fugitive status his downfall came from the actions of two different mothers all of this highlights Jimmy's fear of taking ownership for his bad choices.

[01:54:12] He always shifts the blame like blaming Lolo for the Howard scheme when trying to stop Kim from leaving him great point.

[01:54:21] Seeing Jimmy as Jean antagonize Kim on the phone was even more tragic.

[01:54:27] Jimmy sounded so much like Kim's mom in the flashback scenes during that call it must have been traumatic for Kim to hear Jimmy talk like that.

[01:54:35] It was like Kim was her scared 13 year old self again.

[01:54:37] Jimmy is Jean was a complete 180 from the Jimmy in the better call salt timeline.

[01:54:43] That's why I was happy Kim did the opposite of Jimmy and took responsibility for her crimes.

[01:54:48] She made zero excuses to Cheryl didn't bring up Howard's pretentious mannerisms and his passive aggressive nature as her motivation to con Howard.

[01:54:57] Howard was flawed but he was a nice guy who genuinely wanted to do good and he didn't deserve to be con slandered or killed.

[01:55:04] I'm not going to make too big an argument here.

[01:55:09] I didn't think Howard was always all that great but I greeted deserve to be cons slandered to kill.

[01:55:15] I hope Kim can maybe slander.

[01:55:20] Yeah, maybe a little bit.

[01:55:22] I hope Kim can heal in ways Jimmy has failed to do and move on from her past and please Kim don't marry that guy.

[01:55:28] He says yep all the time.

[01:55:31] You can do better than that please break up with him.

[01:55:35] Rima Joe any ideas on the right guy or type of guy for Kim at this point in the story?

[01:55:41] Rima Joe.

[01:55:44] I'll think about it and get back.

[01:55:47] All right.

[01:55:49] We'll find someone for Kim.

[01:55:50] Yes, I would never predicted Kim would meet Jesse that was the most unpredictable and interesting pairing for a scene in this entire show.

[01:56:00] Daphne Backman says hello podcastica.

[01:56:05] I think this is the first time that I've sent something in for Better Call Saul but after this episode I feel compelled also because I haven't seen Breaking Bad.

[01:56:13] I can't listen to the Better Call Saul podcast yet.

[01:56:15] I'm glad I already knew the fates of Gus and Mike before watching last night's episode.

[01:56:20] She was the other one I couldn't think of when I was trying to think of the two is Stephen Daphne who hadn't seen it.

[01:56:26] Okay, right.

[01:56:28] Oh interesting.

[01:56:30] She goes on while this episode featured both Kim and Jimmy the scenes with Kim were why Ray Seahorn should win the Emmy this year.

[01:56:38] No offense to Christina Ricci.

[01:56:40] It's long overdue.

[01:56:41] Getting to see Kim's new life now was pretty sad.

[01:56:46] I don't think she's truly happy but I think living with the guilt of everything has broken her down.

[01:56:50] When she was driving to the meeting that Clifford Mayne invited her to,

[01:56:54] if she had just kept driving and not returned at the last minute to fix issues around the plot to discredit and terrorize Howard,

[01:57:01] her life would be so different now.

[01:57:03] Watching her step off the elevator and see.

[01:57:05] It's all her fault.

[01:57:07] Watching her step off the elevator and see an attorney acting with a client how she once acted and then realizing where she is now was heartbreaking.

[01:57:15] Her scenes being honest with Howard's widow seemed so honest.

[01:57:21] I feel like the past few episodes have taken us away from the Jimmy we connected with in the earlier seasons.

[01:57:26] I feel bad when Chuck bullied him especially when Jimmy worked so hard to impress him.

[01:57:30] The Jimmy who when this chips her down fought back to build a life for himself.

[01:57:36] The whole Howard debacle and murder changed his life forever.

[01:57:39] He lost Kim which I think was his last piece of conscience.

[01:57:43] It's been a treat to have Carol Burnett on this season.

[01:57:46] She's a national treasure and I loved how Marion stood up to Jimmy although I became scared for her life.

[01:57:51] I'm glad Jimmy didn't cross that line and I'm looking forward to seeing how it all ends for him.

[01:57:56] And then I'm starting Breaking Bad.

[01:57:58] Nice.

[01:58:00] It's so interesting how this series came about because they needed a sleazy lawyer on Breaking Bad to help Walt and Jesse go to the next level.

[01:58:08] And you know Bob Owen Kirk played characters kind of like that in Mr. Show.

[01:58:14] And then he became a fan favorite so they decided to make a series about him and they but it had to be a tragedy when he becomes this asshole.

[01:58:25] That's when the show is a tragedy and let's make him somebody else to start.

[01:58:29] And but then it's just so fascinating to think of somebody who hasn't seen Breaking Bad and then to see him become this character and be like, oh my God, I hate him now.

[01:58:39] It's just so interesting how things pan out that way.

[01:58:45] Gary J Hewitt says, yep, yep, yep, yep.

[01:58:50] Wow.

[01:58:51] I really didn't expect that phone car.

[01:58:53] I'll never hear that word the same again.

[01:58:55] Wow.

[01:58:57] I really didn't expect that phone conversation to go down that way but Jimmy did have a point.

[01:59:00] There is blood on Kim's hands as well.

[01:59:02] When Kim went to confess to Howard's wife, I don't know why but I totally was expecting Jesse to show up maybe because I saw the sign for Alaska.

[01:59:11] Then boom he shows up.

[01:59:13] It was also interesting that in this one episode both Kim and Saul have given up their freedom through self sabotage.

[01:59:18] Saul by going back to his scamming days and breaking and entering and Kim through her written confession.

[01:59:25] I don't know if she gave up her freedom though, we'll see.

[01:59:29] Also I noticed that the subtitles on Netflix switch between calling our protagonist either Jimmy Saul, Gene depending on where we are in the timeline but also when Kim answered the phone to him.

[01:59:40] Subtitles went back to calling him Jimmy which means the subtitles will match what alias other characters know him as.

[01:59:46] Interesting.

[01:59:48] One more episode to go he says.

[01:59:52] Yeah I don't know what to call him half the time either.

[01:59:54] I tend to stick to Jimmy but sometimes it's just not Jimmy.

[01:59:59] It doesn't seem like Jimmy at all so it's interesting.

[02:00:02] Yeah I find myself doing the same.

[02:00:05] A couple of calls here one from Steve Brown.

[02:00:09] Alright HousePodcastica here we go second to last episode of Better Call Saul.

[02:00:14] Oh that's a different diploma right because wouldn't his original one have said Jimmy McGill?

[02:00:20] Oh divorce papers from Kim.

[02:00:23] Hey Kim cutting potatoes in the black and white era.

[02:00:27] We're going to get to see the conversation from her side this time instead of Gene's side and oh my god Kim most boring life ever but I guess after Jimmy that's probably what she needed or Saul.

[02:00:39] Are we not going to get to hear her side we're just going to see the same thing as like Jimmy with a tantrum against that.

[02:00:46] Maybe we are okay well at least she's glad he's alive.

[02:00:50] Did she find Albuquerque from Florida via Alaska and now she's giving her confession to the prosecutors or this is Howard's wife right yeah.

[02:01:01] Okay so now we're back to Gene Saul Jimmy Victor.

[02:01:05] Why are you going up the stairs and now the guy's starting to wake up?

[02:01:11] Seriously they just happened to stop to eat behind the cab that's parked outside the house that's being burgled.

[02:01:18] Well so now that explains why he has so much money because she didn't take any of this amper money and she told him she was going to Florida.

[02:01:26] Is that Jesse bumming a smoke off of her?

[02:01:29] I don't know anything about bail bondsman and stuff like that so I don't know if it's true in Omaha.

[02:01:35] Oh you called it Carol Burnett the one who's going to figure out that he saw Goodman well so we're set up for the last episode Saul's on the run talk to you later.

[02:01:43] Yeah Saul's on the run do you think Jimmy got all the got Kim's share of the same type of money?

[02:01:50] I think he would have gotten a portion of it because if she didn't take it it would increase the size of the pool for everyone.

[02:02:01] So whatever his percentages I think he got that a little bit more.

[02:02:09] Yeah that makes sense.

[02:02:11] But what part of that money I mean he got that because it was like a finder's fee for him when...

[02:02:19] But it was still a percentage of the total.

[02:02:24] Right but he it was technically his wasn't it wouldn't have just been hers because they were married and they would have had to like split it as an asset or something.

[02:02:35] I mean she was going to get her own part but yeah if he got a set percentage of the total then I don't know if her...

[02:02:44] So what you're saying Remus she didn't have her own share she only had a share because she owned half his asset.

[02:02:51] I don't remember I don't I don't remember her actually getting...

[02:02:57] I didn't even realize she was getting anything until this episode to be honest.

[02:03:01] I mean I think that she was getting when they kept talking about getting the same type of money is because they're married you know if Jimmy got the same type of money they're married so it's co assets or whatever but...

[02:03:11] But I think it was because she worked on it.

[02:03:14] I thought she had worked on the case too but you might be right maybe that doesn't mean she has a piece of it.

[02:03:19] Yeah not sure okay we got one more call and it's from our good friend Claire.

[02:03:25] Yay!

[02:03:27] Hey Jason, Rema and David it's Claire calling to leave feedback for Better Call Saul.

[02:03:32] Wow this was one of my favorite episodes I think of the season.

[02:03:35] It was so good to see Kim again the joy to seeing her with short lived though when we see just where exactly she is in her life and that was bleak.

[02:03:51] Seeing her existence she's really never moved on from where she was with Jimmy and I really missed that swinging blonde ponytail in those sharp suits that she wore so well.

[02:04:06] I was really proud of her for taking accountability for what her and Jimmy had done to Howard.

[02:04:14] The scene with Howard's wife was really emotional and shocking and I'm excited to see where that goes if Kim is going to face consequences for that.

[02:04:28] I definitely want to see Jimmy take accountability or be held accountable for everything he's done and I'm a little embarrassed that I was ever rooting for him because wow he is just he was so despicable.

[02:04:44] He's been so despicable as Gene Tachovic he has learned nothing and yeah I can't believe that I was ever on his side hoping that he could get away with it.

[02:04:55] He is just he's the worst.

[02:04:59] He's really the worst right now so I am excited at the prospect of seeing him behind bars.

[02:05:05] I don't think he's going to die.

[02:05:07] I don't want him to die.

[02:05:09] I want to see him behind bars being who he is in prison and you know no one has ever really faced some serious jail time in this universe.

[02:05:20] And so I'm hoping that Jimmy will be the one that sees a prison cell.

[02:05:31] And this confirmed to me, this episode confirmed to me obviously and probably to you too that we're not going to see a happy ending for him and Kim.

[02:05:40] There's no room, no place for him in her life.

[02:05:45] There the sharp contrast but seeing them both you know Kim is remorseful and trying to be better and Jimmy is just shameless in just oh he's just he's just the worst.

[02:06:03] And I'm glad that we saw that conversation.

[02:06:07] I'm glad we got the opportunity to see just how selfish he is, how selfish he's always been and I'm rooting for Mary and I was so glad that she said the name Saul Goodman and called the police and wow I'm excited to see where it goes.

[02:06:24] I'm so excited for next week's episode.

[02:06:27] One other thing I was almost brought me to tears seeing Jesse and Kim on screen together because I can't think of two characters from the shows that we've been rooting for more.

[02:06:38] And so I'm all team Kim team Marion thumbs down to Jimmy McGill Saul Goodman Jean Tachovic they're all awful people.

[02:06:49] The podcast last week was great too I really appreciated all the symmetry that you highlighted between wall and Jimmy and their different characters and how they have each break, break bad in their own worlds.

[02:07:06] So great job on that looking forward to another great podcast so God bless and don't forget to check the batteries on your life alert.

[02:07:13] That was good that was a powerful message.

[02:07:19] Yeah, gosh I could feel the emotion there Claire I'm there with you.

[02:07:23] I mean I it made me think maybe and I hate to even say this in case it does happen but maybe he'll go to jail and then they'll flash for it to when he gets out you know and he's actually Bob Odin Kirk sage.

[02:07:39] And we will see if he's changed at all because I think you know not everyone deserves redemption but if he does turn around and decide he wants to try that I will root for him for sure.

[02:07:54] But he does deserve some consequences for his actions.

[02:07:58] All right, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening everybody. We are almost done with this and that will be a sad day but we have one more week left.

[02:08:18] Don't leave us yet.

[02:08:20] If you want to write in or leave us a message you can find all our contact information at podcast to go.com while you're there be sure to check out our other show.

[02:08:32] Or you can Google con man Albuquerque.

[02:08:37] Yeah we're getting ready to shift into high gear here.

[02:08:41] Lock and key just came out on Netflix the third and final season and Rima and I will be recording on that with Pake this Saturday the first episode and you could go to the strange indeed Facebook page to make comments on that.

[02:08:57] I'll put a link for that in the show notes too.

[02:08:59] What is it?

[02:09:01] What's the URL for that Facebook.com slash stranger stranger T cast.

[02:09:07] I'll put it in the show notes to be sure.

[02:09:10] And then we'll be you know covering we're supposed to be covering House of the Dragon and she hulks coming soon so a bunch of stuff.

[02:09:24] I'm excited about House of the Dragon.

[02:09:27] Are you?

[02:09:29] I'm not expecting it to be Game of Thrones that's a one time thing sort of like when Better Call Saul came out like it's not going to be breaking that its own thing but.

[02:09:37] It's its own thing.

[02:09:39] But I do think it's exciting I think it has potential to be a lot of fun.

[02:09:42] And there was a big mini event where they got to see the first episode and there's been some good buzz coming out of that.

[02:09:48] Oh that's good to hear.

[02:09:49] Yeah.

[02:09:51] I'm reading the book in that section right now and I can't wait to see what how they do it.

[02:10:00] Are there some dragons in it?

[02:10:02] There's going to be so many dragons.

[02:10:06] I mean it's a good and bad thing and I won't talk about it because I think there's going to be so many dragons so I am because I identify as a Targaryen.

[02:10:14] So I am I can't wait.

[02:10:19] I'm going to have the best time.

[02:10:21] You're not blonde of hair though.

[02:10:23] I do not.

[02:10:25] I think I'm one of the darker Targaryens.

[02:10:28] Like Jon Snow.

[02:10:31] Right.

[02:10:33] Exactly.

[02:10:35] Spoilers.

[02:10:36] Well next up for us will be covering Better Call Saul season six episode 13 titled Saul Gone.

[02:10:52] Saul Gone man.

[02:10:54] I know isn't that I thought too I saw that and said it's all good man.

[02:10:59] It's all gone.

[02:11:01] Oh God I'm not ready.

[02:11:03] I'm not ready.

[02:11:05] That's a great title for the last Breaking Bad Universe episode too if it ends up being that.

[02:11:11] All right that is our show.

[02:11:13] Thanks for listening.

[02:11:15] Yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep.