10: "The Green Council" (S1E9)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, I'm Kristen. I'm Reema. And this is Dragon Cast, podcast dedicated to House

[00:00:22] of the Dragon. This week we are covering Season 1, Episode 9, the penultimate episode titled

[00:00:29] The Green Council. An ultimate episode. So just really quickly, a brief synopsis of the episode from HBO

[00:00:39] is while Allison enlists Cole and Aiman to track down Aegon, Otto gathers the great houses of

[00:00:46] Westeros to affirm their allegiance. Again, a very generic way to describe the events.

[00:00:53] Yes. And happening. Yes. Yes. You know, they got to love it. HBO really has a way with words.

[00:01:01] They do. But I appreciate that because you know, I don't want to be spoiled. So I love it. It's good.

[00:01:07] So much to talk about in this week's episode. So before we actually start talking about the

[00:01:15] episode, if you don't mind, I just want to for people that don't have Instagram, Patty

[00:01:20] Constantine wrote an Instagram farewell. And I just thought it was beautiful. And I just want to read

[00:01:28] it out just so we can have kind of a nice cap on the series, first of his name, RIP. So Patty

[00:01:38] Constantine says, thank you for the kind words. I cannot reply to every comment, but I'd like to

[00:01:44] acknowledge that they haven't been lost upon me. It was an incredible adventure where I made lots

[00:01:49] of new friends that will be with me for the rest of my life. I'd like to thank the creators for

[00:01:54] allowing me the freedom to make the series my own. I have never loved a character so much.

[00:01:59] I want to give massive love and respect to at Brook Sion who came in only for a few days,

[00:02:05] but changed the course of my character with her brilliant performance and commitment to the work.

[00:02:10] The impact stayed with me until my final improvised words. She unlocked the missing

[00:02:15] piece of the puzzle for me and allowed for my story to come full circle. From the moment she dies,

[00:02:21] so does Viserys. It was a love story. And that's the secret I carried with me. As sick as he gets,

[00:02:27] he never himself demands any cure. He quietly accepts his suffering, never forgiving himself

[00:02:34] for putting his beloved wife through such torture in her final moments. Viserys was a gift.

[00:02:39] I am so honored he found me. Now, no more.

[00:02:45] Well, crying at the start of the podcast.

[00:02:50] Just so beautiful.

[00:02:51] So beautiful. Oh, wow. That was really great words. I mean, we've said it a couple of times

[00:03:00] that he brought so much to the character. We get so little. I don't think it's too

[00:03:05] spoiler to say that we don't get that richness in the book of Viserys that we got here in the show.

[00:03:13] And his performance was just, I mean, it was perfection. And he gave me a true

[00:03:20] appreciation for the character that I didn't get through the book. And for that,

[00:03:24] I'll always be grateful for Pettit Considine and his performance. I mean, it was absolutely

[00:03:28] outstanding. I agree. I agree. And, you know, he writes about his performance in this little

[00:03:39] farewell post that he did with such care and with such grace that you really, it comes through

[00:03:47] how much he did care about the character. And I think what an actor really commits to a character

[00:03:52] and cares about a character such as this, that's when you get these brilliant performances,

[00:03:56] you know, when people actually commit. So I'm like, please give the man an Emmy. Please give

[00:04:04] the man an Emmy, give him a Golden Globe, give him everything that he deserves because my goodness,

[00:04:10] was he brilliant? Absolutely brilliant. That was lovely. What a lovely send off for him

[00:04:18] in his character. Yeah, definitely. Like, I hope everybody else dies that we want to die

[00:04:24] horrible deaths. And I'm not going to be sad when it happens, but this one, very, very sad.

[00:04:31] Yeah, this one, that was really sad. I know we were exchanging comments back and forth before

[00:04:41] we were recording just talking about, you know, like, when you were talking about your second

[00:04:45] watch of this particular episode, you're like, it's okay. I'm okay to watch this one a second

[00:04:48] time in like the previous episode where, you know, it just made you want to cry more.

[00:04:52] And I'm right there too. I was, I mean, I cried during the first watch of last week's episode,

[00:04:57] and then I'm like, oh gosh, now I have to watch it again, you know, so I can do my prep and I just

[00:05:02] cried even harder. It was so depressing. It was, it was, I mean, there was great,

[00:05:06] there was greatness because of the strength and support and we've talked about it. I won't

[00:05:10] go into it all again. But yeah, it was just, gosh, I got to relive, you know, that last

[00:05:15] part knowing how much he suffered and dying alone was just sad. So bravo, Patek Hansen,

[00:05:24] Dean again, give him all the awards. Dumbledore clap. Yes. Perfect. I like Dumbledore's little

[00:05:33] clap. Yes. Okay, so let's talk about this episode, this beautiful, intense,

[00:05:43] the real ride of an episode. First of all, what did you think?

[00:05:49] I really liked it. I liked the quietness of it. There, I mean, a lot happened, but it was in a

[00:05:59] very quiet and I think choreographed very well. And I mean, just choreographed by

[00:06:05] all the different, you have all of these things happening, all of the politics and

[00:06:10] the game of thrones that's literally happening and unfolding in this episode. And it was just

[00:06:18] done so well, you know, you get the overhead shots of King's Landing and,

[00:06:22] you know, as they're all out searching for Aegon. And I don't think we've talked about it enough

[00:06:31] and I don't want to make it sound like it's lost on me. It's just there's so much to talk

[00:06:35] about in these episodes that it's not always there, but it's always there when I'm watching and

[00:06:41] that's the music and the score. And it was really, I just, I wanted a brief note to talk about how

[00:06:49] much of an impact that that makes to this episode in particular. Raymond Jawaldi, and

[00:06:55] I'm probably butchering that name so my apologies, he is so brilliant. I mean, I didn't think

[00:07:01] he could pull any more brilliance out of his inner self, you know, after Game of Thrones, but he does.

[00:07:08] And like during the scenes, you know, Aegon is walking when the Kingsguard are all like with

[00:07:15] their swords and he's walking through the dragon pit. In the beginning, was it at the Green Council?

[00:07:22] That score was so fantastic. And it was very reminiscent of the episode where

[00:07:31] Cersei and Game of Thrones was getting ready to like blow up the sept.

[00:07:35] Yeah, so I went back and and I listened to both. Alicia Stout mentions this connection

[00:07:43] in some of her feedback this week. And I agree the music was beautiful. And I wanted to

[00:07:48] bring up the music and then she had specific YouTube clips to look at. And

[00:07:52] Oh, excellent. So I watched, I watched, you know, the scene from Game of Thrones when

[00:07:58] Cersei blows up the sept and the music, you know, it's the the music is actually called

[00:08:02] Light of the Seven is beautiful. It's a beautiful piece of music. It's on my playlist.

[00:08:06] So I know exactly. It's on a lot of people's playlist. It's gorgeous. Yeah.

[00:08:11] And so but and it was it's very similar to to what the music was this time.

[00:08:20] But what I noticed about the music in this episode in the Green Council was that we got

[00:08:26] the same music the entire episode through, it was arranged differently in each scene. So

[00:08:34] we're hearing what sounded to me because I listened to it. I listened to Light of the Seven

[00:08:40] before my second watch. And then I was and then I paid attention to kind of the music

[00:08:46] throughout the entire episode. And I noticed that it's all pretty much the same. It's

[00:08:52] the same piece of music. It's just arranged a little differently for each scene. And I thought

[00:08:57] that that really tied together the cohesiveness of of this of this episode because it was one

[00:09:07] cohesive council, one cohesive unit that was moving throughout this entire race against time

[00:09:12] throughout the entire episode. So I appreciated that the music was not choppy. It was not

[00:09:17] different. It was just this underlying, you know, underlying score the entire way through.

[00:09:23] I thought that was really well done.

[00:09:25] Agreed. Yeah, I just wanted to call that out when you know talking about my thoughts and

[00:09:30] feelings because the music plays a big part for me in that in any show because I'm a music lover

[00:09:37] and it can really I think change and affect the tone of the show how you feel about the

[00:09:44] show, you know, depending on the music or the score. And that's obviously a big part

[00:09:48] of Game of Thrones. So definitely with you know, the score and just I think a beautiful episode

[00:09:56] and of course a kick ass kind of end to that. Oh yeah. So top of the champion court right.

[00:10:04] Let the war begin. Yeah, what about you? No, I totally agree. I totally agree. I

[00:10:13] I really loved this episode just like you. I noticed that it was very quiet. I loved

[00:10:19] like the contemplative nature of the entire episode. I love that we got some really strong

[00:10:24] themes throughout the episode. And one of my main points that I can't wait to talk about is really,

[00:10:33] you know, the theme of women versus the patriarchy in this particular episode.

[00:10:39] I think it was really prominent and they did not they were not the writers were not subtle

[00:10:47] and they were not dancing around this subject this week. And I love that. I love that.

[00:10:54] So yeah, I thought it was fantastic. I saw Alice in a completely different light this week.

[00:11:01] Really? I did and yeah, I have more to say about that later. But yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed it.

[00:11:11] But to piggyback on what you were saying about the music, I think that music really makes or

[00:11:16] breaks a show. Yeah, I don't know if you watch Peaky Blinders, but their music and Peaky Blinders

[00:11:24] is phenomenal. It's set in the early 1900s, but they use contemporary music against their

[00:11:31] backdrop of their story. Oh, I love that. It's so, so good. And also Umbrella Academy,

[00:11:40] the music that is in Umbrella Academy is just phenomenal. And to me, it makes that show stand

[00:11:46] out. Absolutely. So good job to House of the Dragon for retaining your music person.

[00:11:54] Yeah, no kidding. Anybody else would have been a criminal act. I'm so glad that they got him.

[00:12:02] Yeah, that's excellent. I was curious because I'd heard, I don't know that it was the consensus,

[00:12:10] but I had heard a few grumblings online about how some were disappointed because typically

[00:12:18] with Game of Thrones and I really am not trying to always compare the two shows. I am trying

[00:12:23] to appreciate House of the Dragon as its own show. I know that we do talk about comparisons and I'll

[00:12:28] be like, oh, remember Game of Thrones and some similarities and things, but I am trying to very

[00:12:33] much keep House of the Dragon separate. They are two different shows, but historically,

[00:12:41] what we had seen from Game of Thrones is that the ninth episode is typically

[00:12:46] a huge episode like Battle of the Basterds, Hardhome. You know what I mean?

[00:12:55] See, we didn't win. Yeah, and we didn't get that really. And I'm fine with that. I didn't even

[00:13:02] think I noticed it. I wasn't walking into it going, oh my God, episode nine is supposed to be

[00:13:08] this huge thing. And until it was pointed out to me and I was like, does it have to be?

[00:13:16] I mean, I still feel like there was a lot that happened and I think it was important what we

[00:13:20] got to see. And even knowing that Reneara and Daemon were not in these episodes,

[00:13:25] like it was still really good and I loved it. So I don't know if you had any thoughts

[00:13:32] about that or even, I wouldn't have even thought about it had I not seen someone call it out.

[00:13:36] And I'm like, well, so what? You know, this is House of the Dragon. It is not Game of Thrones.

[00:13:40] We are in the same world. We're in the same universe, obviously.

[00:13:44] We're in a prequel here, but it is its own show and I am wanting it to kind of stand on its own

[00:13:50] and not just off of Game of Thrones. You know what I mean?

[00:13:54] I do. And unfortunately, I think that it's always going to be

[00:13:59] compared against Game of Thrones because it is the same universe and it is the same

[00:14:04] book writer and Miguel Sapochnick was in there. I don't want to do that either,

[00:14:11] of course. I don't want to link them together, but the stories do link.

[00:14:15] Yes. And because of that, the settings link and the castle links and the places that we're going

[00:14:23] to link. So the names and the banners and everything like we come in with a set amount

[00:14:28] of knowledge about this family. That's true. So it's hard not to make that comparison,

[00:14:36] but I understand how hard it is to try and also keep it separate.

[00:14:41] Yeah, I struggle with it sometimes too, but I am loving this on its own for sure.

[00:14:48] Mm-hmm. I think they're doing a great job.

[00:14:50] I think it's fantastic. And as far as episode nine and it being the penultimate,

[00:14:57] which always means that some crazy shit's about to go down.

[00:15:01] Pretty much.

[00:15:03] I think that we got quite crazy shit.

[00:15:06] I think so. Yeah. I mean, we got a usurpation, usurpation, whatever.

[00:15:16] Somebody took Renea's crown.

[00:15:17] Somebody stole it.

[00:15:24] So, you know that and they did it in, you know, hushed voices. They did it behind closed doors.

[00:15:29] They, you know, quietly put people in prison and hung, you know, hung a guy. I forget his name

[00:15:36] right now. And they, you know, they had this rush to find Aegon and this rush to the

[00:15:45] coronation and then this big coronation that we've never really seen before in Game of Thrones or

[00:15:52] House of the Dragon. So it was really interesting to see that kind of tradition and what exactly

[00:15:57] goes into that. And then you get that explosive end, right? And you know that they wanted that,

[00:16:06] you know, Ryan Condol and Miguel Spocznik, they're like it's season, it's episode nine.

[00:16:10] We have to make a big. And they did and I think that they did such a good job of starting off the war

[00:16:17] with Renea's and Maley's and Maley's and yeah, Maley's. I think that that was the perfect way to

[00:16:27] kick off this war and what's to come. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. But you know,

[00:16:37] let's start talking about our favorite points or just our points, our least favorite points,

[00:16:42] whatever we want to talk about. I can't wait to talk about it. Well, you let me know. Where do

[00:16:48] you want to go first? Well, this is probably, I suspect one of your points as well and I'm

[00:16:55] just going to start it off on a super high, my like favorite episode and that was at the end

[00:17:03] with Renea's, the queen who never was, but should have been. Yes. What a, what a, her house words.

[00:17:13] No kidding. No kidding. It was such a fantastic entrance to one that introduction to Maley's,

[00:17:27] her, her dragon Maley's the red queen as she has been nicknamed quick history lesson on Maley's.

[00:17:35] I'll keep this quick. Maley's had scarlet scales and pink membranes on her wings. And that is how

[00:17:41] she had received her alias, the red queen, her crest horns and claws were bright as copper

[00:17:48] as they had written of her. She was considered to be one of the swiftest dragons in Westeros.

[00:17:56] She could easily outpace Caraxes and Vagar. And her first dragon rider was Princess Alyssa Targaryen.

[00:18:06] Alyssa was Viserys and Daemon's mother before Renea's had claimed her. So quick little history

[00:18:15] lesson on Renea's, what, sorry, on Maley's. What a beautiful introduction and look I know,

[00:18:21] RIP to the small folk. A lot of people really have a problem with that and you know, that was not

[00:18:30] great. I will not condone that, but I'm still glad that I got to see Maley's because what a,

[00:18:36] what a hell of an entrance and she was beautiful. But with Renea's, I mean, weren't we all kind

[00:18:44] of Daemon in that moment where we're kind of whispering, say it. Say it. Did you?

[00:18:50] Yes, I'm like, jacarice, jacarice, come on, let's change the story up, jacarice.

[00:18:58] Because yes, if it were me, I'm not, I'm not going to claim to be a better person.

[00:19:03] I might have done it. So I know I was like, oh my gosh,

[00:19:07] but if she does it, we don't have a show, right? Right. And she rises above because look, this is

[00:19:15] not her character to do this. There's no worse thing in Westeros than being a kin slayer.

[00:19:23] Even Tywin Lannister wouldn't go there, right? And if you're a kin slayer in Westeros,

[00:19:31] you are considered cursed till you die. It carries with you. You get a reputation.

[00:19:36] I think people forget that of how bad it is to be a kin slayer in the world of Westeros.

[00:19:43] Unless you're Tywin Lannister. Yeah, yeah. And they're trying to think, gosh,

[00:19:49] it's, I know Tywin, I'm trying to think, wasn't there someone else in Game of Thrones?

[00:19:55] Jamie Lannister, he killed his cousins. He did kill his cousins and he was also known as

[00:20:01] a King Slayer. Jamie just had it all going downhill for him. Yeah, well, he did. Yeah.

[00:20:10] So and sorry for anybody that hasn't watched Game of Thrones by the way, but it's been three years.

[00:20:17] Well, I know we've, we kind of stopped warning people in the start of the podcast that, hey,

[00:20:23] we're gonna be talking about Game of Thrones, right? We're gonna be talking about all of it.

[00:20:27] I feel like at this point, if you haven't watched by now, but you're watching House of the Drag and

[00:20:32] you know you're going in risking to be spoiled, how can you not talk about Game of Thrones at this

[00:20:37] point? So anyway, and also not just the part about being a kin slayer. One reason why she would

[00:20:45] not go ahead and just eliminate everyone with one word there on the podium, but really how

[00:20:51] would it work for her? I mean, is this really a good look killing the royal family? Doesn't

[00:20:56] make sense to burn everyone. She doesn't know what we know, right? Like for us, we're like,

[00:21:01] burn them, burn them, burn them. She doesn't know this. She doesn't know what's coming.

[00:21:06] We know what's coming. And more importantly, she's not a cruel person. Rainys has never

[00:21:14] in the show given us any reason to see her as a cruel person. I've not gotten any

[00:21:21] hint of that at all. So she is not a cruel person. It is not in her nature. It's not in her character.

[00:21:27] Also, she doesn't want to be the one to start this fight.

[00:21:31] You know, if she killed even if she killed everyone on that podium, it wouldn't end

[00:21:34] anything. Rainys also would not be able to hold King's Landing on her own. If she killed

[00:21:40] everyone up there, then what? She's got to hold King's Landing on her own until what

[00:21:45] someone comes to help. Marnera, Damon, or whoever else they can call in to help defend King's Landing.

[00:21:53] Even with Maly's, it's just not possible. So she'd be a kinslayer. She'd be responsible for starting

[00:21:59] what's getting ready to come and she has no strategic advantage.

[00:22:04] So it makes no sense. But I do love that, you know, that silent look between her and

[00:22:10] Allison. And I know we're going to talk about that conversation between those two, but she really,

[00:22:18] you know, after that conversation, she really here in this scene there at the end demonstrated

[00:22:25] what true power was and how women can have that power.

[00:22:30] And how they can harness it. How they don't go crazy.

[00:22:34] Yeah.

[00:22:37] I also think that after listening to you talk about that, because I think that you made some

[00:22:41] really excellent points there with her decision not to set everybody on fire, especially about

[00:22:49] holding King's Landing. I didn't even think of that. But she's watched her entire family just

[00:22:57] kind of get obliterated by these two squabbling families. And she is choosing to, as you said

[00:23:03] earlier, rise above it. You know, she's like, no, I'm not going to stoop down to your level.

[00:23:09] And I'm not going to do the catty girl thing and kill all of you just because my heart's

[00:23:15] broken and my family's obliterated and I feel hurt and I think what you're doing is wrong.

[00:23:20] I'm just going to fly away. And I'm going to go straight to Dragonstone and probably,

[00:23:25] you know, stir up some shit. But I'm not going to do anything other than that.

[00:23:30] Well, and it's, and I mean, I feel it's not her fight. Like, it's, it's, I think now if it had been

[00:23:39] Reneara showing up with Cyrax, okay, let what happened, let it happen. But I don't think

[00:23:48] it's for Reneys to make that decision. And also, again, she doesn't know what we know. She doesn't know

[00:23:57] you know, any, anything I have to be so careful. But she, she doesn't know and,

[00:24:02] and that's what's hard. And, you know, when Allison, when they make eye contact,

[00:24:08] and you see Allison close her eyes and kind of put her head down because she's like bracing

[00:24:12] herself to, you know, be put on fire and for her family to be eliminated. She's doing that because

[00:24:19] she, because that's what she would do. If she were on the back of that drag, and that's what she

[00:24:25] would do. And I think that speaks so much to Allison's character. Because it's like that she's

[00:24:33] expecting Reneys to do that because it's what she would do. Right. And yeah, she really

[00:24:40] like she closed her eyes and just readied herself to be by dragon fire. Yeah, yeah, I think so.

[00:24:49] And I loved also when she, when Reneys and Maley's burst through the floor, the bells were ringing.

[00:24:59] Yes! Did you catch that? I did. Allison said when they had their conversation,

[00:25:06] when they were still at the Red Keep and they had their conversation and Allison was leaving,

[00:25:11] she says, when you've made your decision, ring the bell. I guess she did. That was her decision.

[00:25:17] And you know she waited for that bell. Yeah. That's a strong dragon too to come up through the

[00:25:25] ground like that. I mean that really demonstrates kind of the strength of these dragons and it

[00:25:30] kind of prepares us for what to expect when we're dealing with warring dragons or fighting

[00:25:36] dragons just because there's so many of them right now. Everybody's a dragon rider, you know?

[00:25:44] So it'll be very interesting to see like with the power of, and this is an old dragon who in

[00:25:51] its description, in her description, she's gotten lazy in her years. Yes. So that's a lazy dragon

[00:26:00] people. Yeah, she was no, Maley's was old cunning and no stranger to battle

[00:26:07] is in the text. So yeah, she was beautiful and loved her introduction. I might have

[00:26:17] teared up some and I'm not ashamed to admit it but love that introduction, love that scene with

[00:26:23] Rainey's. She just should have been queen and so much probably would have been

[00:26:34] prevented but you can definitely tell she was, I have no doubt that she would have been a fantastic

[00:26:39] ruler. Oh, she's displayed that throughout this entire season too. So this was just icing on

[00:26:46] the cake. Yeah, I totally agree. So my turn? Yes please. Okay. So I'm going to discuss kind of

[00:27:00] the women versus the patriarchy like I said earlier. This was a major theme this week

[00:27:07] and we really see it in the like right off the bat in the beginning with Allison being

[00:27:14] kind of ignored and talked down to during the Green Council when Otto makes the announcement that

[00:27:23] Viserys had his dying wish for Aegon to be king. I hate even saying that because I know it's a lie,

[00:27:30] you know? But this is the story we're going to go with this week.

[00:27:36] He was completely surprised that they were having these secret conversations and they're like,

[00:27:40] oh, we didn't want to trouble your head with such dark talk. You know, don't you worry,

[00:27:48] little girl? There's no respect or deference or anything really given to her. She, they're looking

[00:27:58] at when she's talking, they're looking to Otto before they react. Nobody is looking directly

[00:28:04] at her. It isn't until the very end where Lannister, what's his first name?

[00:28:12] He starts asking, he goes, well, what do you suggest your grace? And, you know, we never

[00:28:18] really get to the end of that because she doesn't have any thoughts. And so she, because she

[00:28:24] doesn't know what she thinks. She has no idea what to do because all of this information

[00:28:29] is so new to her. Like she can't even believe that, you know, this usurpation was being planned

[00:28:37] right under her nose and secret behind closed doors without her available. So that really speaks

[00:28:42] to the level of respect that they have for her. So it dawned on me while I was thinking about

[00:28:50] this theme as I was gathering my notes is that this story, this fire and blood story,

[00:28:56] it's written by men, it's compiled by men. So we have archmaesters and mushroom the fool.

[00:29:04] They've all written their stories. Some of them have written their stories

[00:29:09] while coerced into trying to not have such a harsh punishment. So you have all of these

[00:29:15] stories and then later a man puts them all together. So we are not hearing the woman's

[00:29:21] perspective. We are not hearing what the women in this story were actually up to. And this is such

[00:29:28] a female perspective show that it's interesting to see kind of read what reading between the

[00:29:33] lines of this is. So I don't think that we have the full story in the books. I don't think that

[00:29:41] I don't think that we will ever get the full story, right about what really happened

[00:29:46] in this fictional world. And I think that that really speaks to two things. The victors write our

[00:29:56] history and men write our history. And thankfully it's changing now, but this is a real testament to

[00:30:06] what it looks like when women are left out of the story.

[00:30:09] So Allison doesn't seem to be a weak character. I think that she's made many sacrifices,

[00:30:17] including to her own dignity, as we saw with Larys, to get the same information that the men

[00:30:24] already have and they won't share it with her unless she pays a price like her feet,

[00:30:29] which is degrading. It was a degrading way to watch Allison try and keep up when she

[00:30:34] is the queen and technically have the power. And so answer me this, isn't Otto out of a job

[00:30:41] until a new hand is named anyway? Well, honestly, gosh, Rennie might be a better resource for that

[00:30:49] question, but I feel... She's a faster... Technically it's as far as power and how it

[00:30:59] falls. It goes from the king and then the hand. And as much as what Allison has kind of pushed

[00:31:07] her way... We saw episodes several episodes ago, she's kind of bossed her way around the council.

[00:31:14] She's kind of pushy with Becerus and bossing him around like she's holding power. It really is

[00:31:21] the hand that has more power than what Allison would. Now, I would think that the hand's

[00:31:28] power... Now, he could lose his job once the king or queen should be. Then after the coronation and

[00:31:38] they have been crowned, then it is up to them of course. They don't have to keep that same hand.

[00:31:43] They could get a new... God who would know? That was no. Poor Becerus and his poor decision

[00:31:49] making skills and keeping Otto. I think that they're still in power until that transition takes place.

[00:32:00] Now, they could be out of the job after, but I think that holds until then. But don't quote me

[00:32:06] on that. I could be wrong. There could be someone screaming at me right now.

[00:32:09] Like, no, you're wrong. No, I understand. It's just interesting because I think of

[00:32:14] what would Cersei do? Cersei would be like, no, back off. I got this.

[00:32:19] Yeah, but that's the difference between Cersei and Allison.

[00:32:28] So then I'm just going to touch on a little bit more of this because

[00:32:31] Rhaenys tries to have that conversation with Allison about how she's served the men in her

[00:32:36] life without question, never wondering or realizing that she could actually take her own

[00:32:40] power. She's been conditioned to do her father's husband's and now son's bidding

[00:32:46] and never really thought twice about doing it. So this conversation seems to give Allison pause

[00:32:53] and causes her to finally confront her father. And throughout this episode and in other episodes,

[00:32:58] we've seen Allison keep her hands clasped very tightly in front of her, which, you know,

[00:33:06] that kind of activity represents fear, anxiety and nervousness. And in her younger years,

[00:33:11] she bit her nails until they bled. So this clasping could also be a technique that she's used to stop

[00:33:18] doing that. But she's clearly struggled with insecurity and anxiety, her own life, because

[00:33:24] she's really never, her life has never really been her own life. And I think that that's what

[00:33:29] she has in common with Rhaenira amongst other things. But I think both of them are kind

[00:33:34] of stuck in this situation that they've been used their entire lives as pawns to make

[00:33:40] the men more powerful. And we're kind of starting to see the repercussions of that.

[00:33:45] And it was really nice to see Rhaenira, Allison stand up to her father this week.

[00:33:52] Yes.

[00:33:54] You know, and now she realizes she's been conditioned to only like and dislike whatever

[00:33:58] he has told her to. And I'm not sure she even knows who she is at this point. And that

[00:34:06] that could be very scary, especially after you've lost your husband of over 20 years and

[00:34:11] your kids at Dick and about to become king and your daughters out to lunch. And you have no friends

[00:34:17] unless you count the guy that keeps killing people in a rage and the other guy that masturbates

[00:34:23] to your feet. So I just, um, I see that hating Allison is just

[00:34:35] just it feeds into that idea that women are crazy. It feeds into the idea that

[00:34:43] she's the villain because she's not the villain. I mean, she's a terrible human being and we'll

[00:34:48] see that probably. But for right now, she's someone who quite honestly just had the worst

[00:34:55] day of her life. I mean, she woke up her husband's dead and she goes to bed right

[00:35:01] before having that meeting with Larry's, which was awful and disgusting. And then she wakes

[00:35:06] up the next morning and almost gets eaten by a dragon. It's an intense 24 hours for her.

[00:35:15] But I just, I don't see how we can hate Allison with as much hate as we have. And we've hated

[00:35:24] on her pretty hard this entire season without also recognizing that the men in this story have

[00:35:32] twisted her and made her this way just like Raniera. They've made Raniera into who she is

[00:35:38] today as well and the risks and the steps that she's taken. Rainy seems to be the only one

[00:35:47] who really understands kind of who the real enemy is. And it's refreshing to see that,

[00:35:55] especially from an older character. I've really enjoyed that this season.

[00:36:00] Yes, I agree. Rainy's is definitely one of my favorite characters, one of my favorite

[00:36:07] Targaryen women characters. I know we were talking during book talk with Renny that we

[00:36:13] had just recorded earlier before we started this. So anyone's like, well, you're not there yet.

[00:36:17] We've already done that. But I support Targaryen women because of how much they've been wronged

[00:36:25] throughout history. If you go back and look, it's just been one thing after another. And

[00:36:31] Rainy's is right there with so many others. So yeah, she's definitely one of my favorite

[00:36:36] characters. And I like how she just saw right through Allison's bullshit speech

[00:36:42] when she was trying to sway her to their side. Yeah, and she pulls out some punches trying to

[00:36:49] manipulate her into her side too. Took a few low blows. She sure did.

[00:36:58] Yeah. So yeah, that was my first point was just kind of just the whole women versus the

[00:37:03] patriarchy part of this story and how it kind of comes to this interesting

[00:37:09] head during the quiet, crazy chaos of episode nine.

[00:37:16] So much chaos in this episode. That's great. Really great point. Well, let me just tag on

[00:37:22] to what you were talking about with Allison and seeing Allison as maybe an unwitting or

[00:37:29] reluctant participant in everything that's going on. And I think that you can make that argument,

[00:37:36] but I am seeing what others are seeing in Allison as far as just from a show's perspective.

[00:37:48] But it's really hard to let go of what I know about Allison from the books.

[00:37:57] So I do understand why so many do sympathize with Allison. I do too. I see these things and

[00:38:04] I'm not blind to them. However, she is still complicit of working to put her son, Agon the

[00:38:11] second on the throne who is so far from being fit to rule. And especially with what we learn in

[00:38:17] this episode like as if last week wasn't bad enough, you know, knowing that he essays

[00:38:23] the servants, female servants having to go through all of that and see that, you know,

[00:38:28] this is not something new that comes up. This is like an old thing that Allison has to do all

[00:38:33] the time is pay off these servants that he assaults. And now this week, it's there is implied.

[00:38:43] It's implied he's a pedophile in this episode with what happens there at the child fighting

[00:38:52] rings down there and Flea Bottom. And he supports those fights with the children.

[00:39:00] You know, he's seen there often. And he's a frequent visitor. And he has bested

[00:39:07] her children that is used to bait as bait at those children fights. So that was the most disgusting

[00:39:15] thing to me. Yeah. Yeah. So knowing these things and now Allison may not know all of these

[00:39:22] things, but I think even with what she does know is pretty bad. And I think that it's kind of revealing

[00:39:34] of her own hypocrisy. She gets angry and offended at things that Rhaenyra does like having children

[00:39:43] with Harwen Strong, which again, we've mentioned Lenor has no problems with. But it turns out

[00:39:50] that she in turn lets Laris touch himself in exchange or touch himself while looking at her

[00:40:00] feet in exchange for favors. So that's a little hypocritical in my eyes. And I feel

[00:40:10] both her and Kristen Cole are just these, they like to say think of themselves as being

[00:40:16] righteous and having this moral high ground. But instead they're like completely the opposite of that.

[00:40:22] And I feel like we've had this weird inconsistency with Allison too. Like,

[00:40:29] I would be fine if they just let her be a villain. I love villains. You know, we talked about

[00:40:35] Cersei. I loved Cersei. She was unapologetically terrible. But she was a great villain. So

[00:40:45] why can't we just let Allison be a villain? A few episodes ago, she tells Aegon,

[00:40:51] one day you'll be king. But then at the council meeting, she's surprised to learn that the

[00:40:56] council has been planning this day for years. I don't understand why they keep making her a victim

[00:41:06] in the show. And it's like, oh, she cares for Rhaenyra. Well, since when?

[00:41:13] Allison didn't even let her rest after she gave birth to Joffrey. And instead insisted on seeing

[00:41:19] the baby just to see his hair. And then when she was having that conversation with Rhaenys,

[00:41:28] you know, she's talking about how is her job or not her job, just their job, right? Women,

[00:41:34] their job to guide the men. But then she then is put in that, like you mentioned,

[00:41:40] that degrading position of showing your feet to Larris to get information. And

[00:41:45] then she disowned Aegon a couple of episodes ago. And now she's going to gently guide him from

[00:41:53] being a rapist and being incompetent to rule. So I, no, these are all amazing points. And

[00:42:04] I completely agree with you here. I just it's so hard because I know, I just don't

[00:42:11] know that she has ever been able to make her own opinions or live her own life. And I think that

[00:42:17] her getting married so young probably stunted her emotional growth. And so she's very much like a

[00:42:25] teenager at this age with these adult children and these adult things that she has to do.

[00:42:31] And she's never been prepared for any of it because her whole life has been serving the men

[00:42:37] in her life. So, you know, I think that there's a lot of she's making terrible decisions and she's

[00:42:44] going, she's putting a like you said, a rapist, a pedophile and all around just horrible,

[00:42:52] garbage human being on the throne because it's her son and her dad told her that this was the

[00:43:00] end game anyways. You know, I think that she's told herself a little story too that, you know,

[00:43:07] these were Viserys' dying words. I think that she just took the words that she liked

[00:43:13] and put them together and here made them the story. Yeah, exactly. So, you know,

[00:43:19] but there is something to be said for the fact that she just she had a real long day.

[00:43:25] I certainly did. I do have like sympathy towards Allison for sure, more than what I did for her in

[00:43:32] the book. But I do still cannot agree with decisions that she's made, you know, and especially trying

[00:43:43] to put her son who she knows is a piece of shit on the throne. And it's just, you know, gosh,

[00:43:51] if her and Reneara could just have a flippin' conversation, if they could just meet for like

[00:43:58] 30 minutes without Otto, get that dude, put him away for a minute and let them have a conversation.

[00:44:07] I feel like that things would have went very differently because I feel like all of this

[00:44:15] threatening and I know that that was used against Allison too, like she's gonna kill your

[00:44:20] kids, right? If she tries to take, if she takes the throne because your kids, you know,

[00:44:26] are a threat to her and in the succession. I know that that's been fed into her and she believes

[00:44:31] that but we know as viewers that that's it. That's not true. That doesn't have to be true,

[00:44:38] you know, and that goes for both ways. So, I really wish that because this could have been

[00:44:44] handled diplomatically. It didn't have to, you know, be this secret usurping and, you know,

[00:44:52] sneaky coronation and keeping it from Reneara that there could have been another way to go about this.

[00:44:59] Right. So I agree. Yeah, I agree. I think that that was just, you know,

[00:45:06] Otto Hightower being Otto Hightower. But I love the urgency of the episode. I love the whole

[00:45:14] urgency of the whole episode. I thought that it really, it was so quietly done and it was so

[00:45:20] intense the entire time like that intensity never dropped the entire episode. So I just,

[00:45:25] that was fantastic. I agree. That was me, right? What's your next point? Yeah. So

[00:45:36] let's talk about Eric and Arik a little bit. Yeah, the twins. So I really, really enjoy

[00:45:44] kind of learning about what Aegon is doing through Eric and Arik because Aegon's been a bit

[00:45:51] of a mystery, you know? What is he up to? Where is he? They can never find him. It's kind of like

[00:45:55] Carl, you know? Carl stay in the house. Like he's never there. So it's a walking dead joke for

[00:46:03] anybody who didn't know. So, you know, we have two very different Kings guards here. We have Eric,

[00:46:15] who just thinks Aegon is trash and is not fit to rule. He knows exactly what he's doing down in

[00:46:23] those fighting pits. He knows exactly how many bastards are down there because of him and who

[00:46:28] they came out of is a mystery to anybody with children down there. You know, he's been watching

[00:46:34] over him and cleaning up his messes. And Arik, Arik is this guy, you know, the other twin that

[00:46:40] he's just kind of doing his duty and he's not really thinking about it more than that. You

[00:46:44] know, he's sworn to protect the King. That's his job. You know, he's not being paid or

[00:46:52] he's not in that position to make any opinions, right? He's just there to do as he's told.

[00:46:58] So this got me kind of thinking in who is a more honorable man? Like obviously Aegon is

[00:47:09] terrible and shouldn't rule. But as a Kings guard, are you allowed to have that opinion?

[00:47:14] Are you allowed to just, you know, refuse to protect the new King just because you're like,

[00:47:21] no, this isn't the right thing to do. You know, I'm all about Team Eric here because I'm Team Black

[00:47:30] and Team Eric is, he's to me, you know, letting Aegon kind of see where the chips lie there is

[00:47:37] okay with me. But you know, you get kind of put in Arik's position and Arik is just like looking

[00:47:42] at his brother like, are you helping me or am I doing this on my own? Like what's going on?

[00:47:47] So what do you think about that? That's tough for me, honestly. And I'm like you because I'm

[00:47:57] Team Black. I'm very much on the side of Eric because he's right. He has, he's been Aegon's

[00:48:06] sworn protector. He's the one that's had to follow Aegon around Fleabot to protect him,

[00:48:12] right? I mean, it's obviously not a safe place for the prince of the realm. So he's followed him around

[00:48:22] and seen the things that he's done to cover up the things that he's done and knows that he's not

[00:48:28] worthy. So I really struggle with, because I feel like taking an oath is very serious and

[00:48:38] should be taken serious. But you know, they're the king's guard but he's not the king yet.

[00:48:46] So I don't know if there's a gray area there. There's I'm sure going to be many that would argue

[00:48:51] with me and that's okay. I feel like, you know, there's some room for different perspectives

[00:48:57] there. But I, that was my question while I was watching that. I was like, okay, so I feel

[00:49:03] like taking an oath is serious but at the same time they're king's guard. It was kind of

[00:49:08] like when Lord Westerling in the earlier scene when he was like, I'm, you know,

[00:49:16] commander of the king's guard and right now there's no king.

[00:49:19] That was such a great moment. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was a wonderful moment.

[00:49:22] I had no idea that the cloaks could come off like buttons either. Like it just,

[00:49:26] he just popped that thing right off. I was like, yeah, that's kind of nice.

[00:49:29] That was cool. That was cool. Yeah. So that's kind of where I went with it. I was

[00:49:35] like, well, they're making a decision there or the two twins are making their decisions on which side

[00:49:40] and that's kind of where I was. I was like, well, technically there's not a king right now.

[00:49:47] And you're totally right about that. And also, I mean, as you were talking,

[00:49:52] and I'm thinking about what you're saying, it's after a while of cleaning up so many of

[00:49:59] Aegon's messes, it has to wear you down just as a person, as a human, right? Just seeing these

[00:50:06] broken women or these babies that are, you know, just sitting there being raised in these fighting

[00:50:13] pits. And it just breaks my heart. Well, and just because I don't want to say what, you know,

[00:50:22] any differences in the book, because if you're interested in that, you can go listen to book

[00:50:25] talk about some differences. You can. So these are the things that we saw, right? These are the

[00:50:32] things that we know. Think about the things that you didn't see or that we haven't been shown or

[00:50:38] that they didn't talk about. And I think with enough of what we have seen and what's been implied

[00:50:47] is enough. But yeah, there's probably a lot of things that we don't know or haven't been told

[00:50:55] that he's been up to or is responsible for or has done that, to me, makes it very clear that he's

[00:51:03] unfit. And honestly, it doesn't even matter because look, there's probably, we could go through the

[00:51:09] whole line and look at all of the kings that were unfit and probably should not have ruled

[00:51:18] but they did simply because they're the male heir. So you can certainly go down the line, not

[00:51:25] everybody, you know, your worthiness has nothing to do with it. I think the Beesbury said that in

[00:51:31] a previous episode. It doesn't really matter if he's fit or not. He's not the heir, Renea is.

[00:51:39] So to me, that's the end of the argument. But also, Aegon didn't want it. He said over

[00:51:46] that he didn't want it. He begged to go on a ship and go away. Why are we forcing this person to do

[00:51:51] something that they don't want to do? Yeah, another good point. So even if they said okay,

[00:52:00] even if they prepped Aemond to do it instead of Aegon, to me, that would make more sense than

[00:52:07] forcing this, you know, dumpster fire of a king now onto the people just because, you know,

[00:52:17] of the order of his birth. This is not somebody who should be in charge of dinner, let alone,

[00:52:24] you know, an entire kingdom, seven kingdoms at that. I mean, it sounds like he would have been

[00:52:28] pretty happy when Allyson was talking to Renea's earlier and telling her you should have been

[00:52:35] queen. Viserys would have been perfectly happy being a country lord, studying his histories and

[00:52:41] building his Legos because Viserys did like history because he did like to read his histories and,

[00:52:48] you know, that was what he enjoyed doing. So he would have been perfectly happy doing that.

[00:52:53] I think Aegon would have been perfectly happy just being a prince of the realm.

[00:52:57] You know, it's not like he would have had some kind of lower, would he be king? No,

[00:53:00] but would he have some kind of lower station? No. He was still going to, you know, marry his sister,

[00:53:06] produce some, you know, keep the Targaryen line going and live a good life, a quiet life. And I

[00:53:14] have to be in the middle of it. He had zero interest in the politics or ruling and it's

[00:53:20] been what you said about about Aemon because it sounds like he was preparing himself

[00:53:24] to be the king. He's like, I'm reading the histories and I'm becoming a good fighter

[00:53:28] and I'm doing all the right things and Aegon's a piece of crap.

[00:53:33] So that's Second Sun's thing. It's again, we've talked about it many times at Second Sun Syndrome.

[00:53:40] Second Sun's in women. That's what the show should be called.

[00:53:48] Yeah. So, you know, back to Eric and Arik, I just, I really, really loved kind of getting an

[00:53:56] idea of who Aegon is through their conversation and kind of their almost arguing back and forth

[00:54:04] about it as they look for Aegon and they go to all the spots of where he might be because now,

[00:54:10] you know, we've seen, you know, little bits of how, you know, yucky he could be. But now we're

[00:54:15] really kind of getting into it. Oh, this guy is about to become king and he's awful.

[00:54:21] Like they painted a great picture. And I'm really excited to see how Eric and Arik kind of

[00:54:28] play into it as our season comes to a close. Yeah, me too. And I think it was probably

[00:54:35] a good representation of the two sides, right? Kind of arguing 100%, you know, they're, you know,

[00:54:42] this is, this is why and no, this is why and this is why you're wrong and this is why I'm

[00:54:46] right. And so kind of like the viewers, you know, kind of roles there. But yeah, I like that.

[00:54:54] Oh, yes. Everybody has very intense opinions. But they're all backed up so beautifully that

[00:55:03] I just can't argue with anybody because there's so many gray characters in this show. Although

[00:55:09] if you if you're gonna sit here and tell me that Otto Hightower is a good man, I just might

[00:55:13] throw you out the window. Yeah, I cannot agree with that. No. I know I've had to chill out a

[00:55:22] little bit as far because I can get pretty intense and I can get pretty passionate about my views.

[00:55:27] But I do will, I will very much say like who you like, honestly, I, you know, I don't

[00:55:35] understand how some can support certain characters or be honest on the other side of things.

[00:55:43] And it's, you know, that's just my perspective. But I'm also like, you know what, like, like you,

[00:55:48] like you have your reasons and I can't tell you that you're wrong for it. I can disagree.

[00:55:53] But I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong or anything like that for,

[00:55:58] you know, for that. I can tell you why I, why I am where I am and why I support who I support.

[00:56:04] But like he like, I don't care. But I do need to chill out about it sometimes.

[00:56:11] Because like, that's why it was a Game of Thrones. I was so intense about it that this time around,

[00:56:16] I'm just kind of like, you know what, I'm not going to get super intense this time. I'm just

[00:56:19] going to enjoy the show and enjoy talking to people about it. Because I think I lost friends

[00:56:25] over my opinions on games. So just kind of like, okay, I do it differently this time.

[00:56:32] Well, and you know, it, not that I wasn't, because I shared that intensity

[00:56:37] and passion for Game of Thrones, but I feel like I'm definitely more opinionated and more passionate

[00:56:44] about House of the Dragon, you know, for it. And I'm not sure why I don't under, I don't know.

[00:56:51] But yeah, I really feel like in blood maybe it's rising up in me, I guess. I don't know,

[00:56:57] but it's, I've had to have conversations with myself because I do that and be like,

[00:57:04] you need to chill the hell out, you know. So I apologize to anyone that I've gotten a little

[00:57:11] intense with. And if anything I've said was taken the wrong way, I am...

[00:57:16] It sounds like you had it coming. So not you. I mean, the people that had the wrong opinion.

[00:57:22] I mean, look, there's not been any fights or anything, but I, and maybe I put a cap in it

[00:57:26] before it got to that point, I could just feel it coming. Does that make sense? Like,

[00:57:29] I could feel like, oh yeah. I'm getting to that moment and I need to just, I need to go in timeout.

[00:57:36] I need to go reflect and... I need to go to my safe zone, my alone zone.

[00:57:41] Yeah, because I could feel it coming and I don't want to make anyone mad because I'm like,

[00:57:45] oh, you're not wrong for how you feel. So I just need to... This is a TV show,

[00:57:50] it's fiction. Right, exactly. It feels real. It's okay. It feels real.

[00:57:58] Just feel very strongly about characters. But isn't that great though, about like,

[00:58:02] speaks for the writing and then for the show, you know, for the book and then for the show

[00:58:08] how you can really feel so passionate about fictional characters. So hats off to George.

[00:58:15] Yes. Sorry, I'm totally digressing. I'll probably have to cut some of that out.

[00:58:19] No, it's fine. Go for it.

[00:58:21] Did you have more to say? Because I'll just tag on to what you were saying about

[00:58:24] Aegon. Yeah, tag on. Okay. So you were talking about Eric and Arick. I'm probably going to

[00:58:29] butcher their names moving forward, but I'll try to keep them in place there.

[00:58:35] So Aegon, I think it's interesting like you were saying, he definitely has zero interest in

[00:58:41] ruling. We saw that very early on and he's totally fine with Reneara being the heir and

[00:58:50] he can just, he just wants to drink and do his thing. Now I don't agree with all the things that

[00:58:55] he's doing. If he was doing not some of these like things like the child fighting, the assaulting

[00:59:03] servants and things like that, but let him live his quiet life if that's what he wants.

[00:59:08] And I think in this episode it's clear to me that no one wants him as king. Otto thinks

[00:59:16] he's a piece of crap, but he thinks he can do like the Tywin Joffrey thing and control him.

[00:59:22] Allison knows he's unfit. She knows that he assaults maids, you know, and but she's telling herself

[00:59:29] that she's filling Viserys' last wish and she also thinks that he can be controlled.

[00:59:36] Aegon himself knows that he's unfit. He says it himself. He's unfit and he doesn't want to rule.

[00:59:45] Aiman knows, you know, he's having those conversations with Kristen Cole as they're

[00:59:51] going about Fleabot and trying to find him. He knows that he's unfit but he's going to do his duty

[00:59:57] because that's what he does. He's like, hey, no matter what I'm going to do what I have to do.

[01:00:04] And then it's interesting though when he is crowned though there at the end,

[01:00:10] the crowd cheers for him and he's finally getting that love and acceptance

[01:00:15] that he's been wanting. And now it's cool. Now his attitude has changed because he's gotten

[01:00:23] what he didn't get from Allison, from Otto, probably from Viserys.

[01:00:31] He got that love and acceptance. You can kind of see that like a light bulb switch went off

[01:00:37] for him when the crowd started cheering. Did you see that?

[01:00:40] I did. I did. And it's so funny what the difference is because he has been holed up

[01:00:47] with this family that just kind of looks down on him because of the way that he acts

[01:00:52] and his wife slash sister is clearly afraid of her, afraid of him and hates him.

[01:00:59] Like didn't even want to bow to him. She couldn't even look at him

[01:01:03] when he was. No, she couldn't. I think though that that was for a different reason. I'll bring

[01:01:07] that up later. And then he turns around and you know these are the people of the realm.

[01:01:13] These are the people that he's never probably even thought about. They're just all these like

[01:01:18] blurred images in the background of his life and they're going to love whoever is put up on

[01:01:24] the throne at first. And they've had a lot of peace lately. They've had Viserys and

[01:01:32] Jayheres. It's been a really great time for the realm. And so why wouldn't they think anything else

[01:01:38] that's going to happen? Right? And so I think that getting all of that love from people,

[01:01:50] from the people of King's Landing, I think you're right. It completely changes something in him

[01:01:57] and he lights up and you can see that it the power is going to go to his head like you can

[01:02:02] see it as it's happening. The power has, he's already instead of getting drunk on wine,

[01:02:08] he's going to be drunk on power. Yeah. Well, and he's been quite a spoiled brat up until this point

[01:02:14] too. I don't feel like that's going to change any at all just because he was you know crowned king.

[01:02:20] And I say that. Oh no, he hasn't changed at all. No. He's horrible.

[01:02:26] Mm hmm. Yeah. So that was really it. It was just, it was a small point, but that was really all I

[01:02:35] had to say. Yeah. Okay. So there is a quote that I really, really love in this episode.

[01:02:45] And it comes from Asariya and it is, there is no power but what the people allow you to take.

[01:02:53] Mm hmm. And I really think that that is kind of a theme of what happens with Aegon, right? The

[01:03:05] people have allowed him to become king. And so that's kind of like not foreshadowing but that's

[01:03:13] kind of a reminder to us that it is not just these families that are squabbling. There is

[01:03:20] a people and the people are strong and the people can be very powerful themselves if they, you know,

[01:03:28] organize or love you or hate you like, you know, you live and die by your people.

[01:03:37] But, you know, to go just into that conversation a little bit, I loved

[01:03:43] when she looked at Otto and was like, I'm my condolences of the passing of your king. And Otto is

[01:03:51] Lord that she knows. Mm hmm. I loved that. I loved that he did, he does this little twitch

[01:04:00] thing with his mouth that I saw earlier in the season when he was trying to get the eggs back

[01:04:06] from Damon when he has lost control of his situation. And I think that he realized that he

[01:04:16] kind of misjudged Masaria because she's a woman because she's a woman of a lower stature.

[01:04:25] He did not expect her to be not only so informed but also come with demands and be so strong in

[01:04:35] those demands and, you know, really have something to say. And I just hate it when he's like,

[01:04:41] I'll look into it now tell me what I need to know. I don't think Masaria should have told him

[01:04:47] anything. Like, don't tell me you're going to look into it. I know you're a liar.

[01:04:51] Yeah, wouldn't trust that dude. But I really, really love just kind of how that scene played

[01:04:58] out because I love it when Otto is not prepared for what's coming to him. And

[01:05:04] you totally see that here. Masaria has really, I mean, she was kind of crazy in the beginning,

[01:05:13] not crazy like in the head but just erratic. Her behavior was very reactionary in the very

[01:05:20] beginning of the season and Damon got her out of there and she was like, no screw you,

[01:05:26] I don't need to be saved. You kind of didn't know where she was going with her character.

[01:05:29] And then now you see that she's really made a name for herself. She's very put together. She's

[01:05:35] got a whole network. She's a little like a little yes, she is. She is she's a lot like various

[01:05:45] more so than Larry's was sucked. Yeah. Well, because she also cares about the small folk,

[01:05:52] which I think Varis did too, right? Didn't he? Yes, he did. Yeah, he really cared about

[01:05:56] the children, which is what she wants to be fixed. And she makes up a good point. She says

[01:06:08] that gold folks are taking bribes and you know what's going on because we know that you know

[01:06:14] what's going on. So either it's being tolerated or ignored, but both of those are unacceptable

[01:06:19] to us and you need to fix it. So she brings terms and they're fair terms

[01:06:25] and they shouldn't have to be terms just to find out about where your stupid

[01:06:32] Prince turned king is hiding out in a runken tither. This should be something that should

[01:06:38] have already been taken care of. Yeah, it's gross. So the happening's happening,

[01:06:47] going on down there and blue bottom. And I wonder, it makes you wonder what did Damon know

[01:06:54] and why didn't Damon tell somebody or you know, I don't like this idea of these children have in

[01:07:03] fighting pits with you know, sawed off teeth and long fingernails and little kids.

[01:07:12] It's just this ugly, ugly part of this world that I wish I never knew about, be quite honest.

[01:07:18] Yeah, it's hard to read that stuff. It's hard to see it on the screen. It's terrible to think of

[01:07:26] you know, how the kids ended up there, what were the circumstances

[01:07:31] and that it's you know, being supported by other common folk that frequent that establishment.

[01:07:42] Yeah, it's gross. Yeah, so it was little but I just I really liked that scene. I loved how

[01:07:50] strong was area was and I really love that quote at the end of their at the end of their scene.

[01:07:54] And I think that it you know, kind of shook auto, which I love, I love it when he's still

[01:08:02] shucking up like oh, I didn't expect you to be you know good at this. I'm the best.

[01:08:07] Yeah, it's good. Yeah, I agree. I like it when he's a little shaken up too,

[01:08:10] like what because I feel like he always assumes he knows his situation he's going to walk into

[01:08:16] here and like he knows everything he's the one paying for information or has you know,

[01:08:23] his own information network. So when he you know,

[01:08:27] hears that it's always good to see him a little unsettled and off his rocker a little

[01:08:33] very fun always satisfying.

[01:08:39] How about for you?

[01:08:41] Goodness, I don't even know what number we're on and I feel like I have all over the place

[01:08:47] I'm gonna I have a little nutty, but that's okay. Yeah, I'm kind of all over the place and I have

[01:08:52] one that's kind of long so and then I have a bunch of short ones. So let me get through this one

[01:08:57] and I'll try and get there pretty quick and this was things that may have been missed or

[01:09:04] overlooked because there's so much. Okay. Yeah, there's so much in these episodes and they're

[01:09:08] so rich and there's so many details. So I'll try and get through these quickly. So in this

[01:09:13] episode there was a candle in the window. Did you pick up on that? There was when

[01:09:22] Alice since Lady and Waiting Talia she was lighting some candles in a window,

[01:09:28] a little bit of a callback to the Game of Thrones days right when Sansa

[01:09:34] Yes, did you see how many candles that she lit?

[01:09:38] No, I did not take note of that. She lit seven candles.

[01:09:42] Really? I went back to count the candles because I thought it was seven so it could either be for

[01:09:50] you know, the seven kingdoms or the light of the seven or whatever but maybe she lit seven

[01:09:57] candles. I did not take note of that so thank you for that. So they mentioned Storm's End

[01:10:06] in this episode. That's important. We saw early in the season Boros or sorry, Bormin Baratheon

[01:10:20] he pledged allegiance to Rhaenyra after she was named heir. If you remember all the Lords were

[01:10:26] pledging their allegiance to Rhaenyra so that's important. Storm's End holds the key to the

[01:10:34] Stormlands so just something to keep in your mind there. When King Viserys was dead we mentioned it

[01:10:44] earlier when Rhaenys made her entrance in the Dragon Pit with Males, the bells can be heard ringing

[01:10:51] out through King's Landing. That became very controversial in Game of Thrones

[01:10:59] but it's interesting because I don't believe that there is an established precedent for those bells

[01:11:09] but I think that there is, it is appropriate I believe ringing them for when a monarch dies

[01:11:17] because Varys did say that in that episode, in that episode where they had the bells.

[01:11:22] What did he say? Varys said, I've always hated the bells they ring for horror a dead king a city

[01:11:30] under siege. So if you missed the bells they were in this episode. We never really got a lot of

[01:11:40] talk about them before. Gosh I miss Varys. He was something for sure. When Amond and

[01:11:52] Kristen Cole were looking for Aegon he mentions that he could have boarded a ship to Yi Ti.

[01:11:59] Yi Ti is located in Essos to the east of Karth and it was inspired by the real world

[01:12:05] Imperial China. It is one of the largest and oldest nations in the known world

[01:12:12] and I think there is a spin-off potentially I think an animated series based in Yi Ti

[01:12:22] that could be in development. Who knows if it'll come to pass or not? I think there's

[01:12:28] a couple of spin-offs in the works that are in development. I think there's some discussion

[01:12:34] around that so it was interesting that they brought that up here maybe it's a little bit of a tie-in

[01:12:39] if that happens. During Aegon's coronation some of the banners have a gold dragon on black rather

[01:12:49] than the typical red of House Targaryen. That is Aegon's personal sigil with the

[01:12:56] gold in honor of his dragon Sunfire which we haven't yet seen. I don't think that's spoilery to say.

[01:13:03] I hope we see some of these guys soon you know. I hope so. I hope so.

[01:13:10] And then we saw Aegon when he was crowned. He was crowned with the crown of Aegon the Conqueror

[01:13:20] and also carrying black fires what he was holding up when the crowd started cheering for him.

[01:13:28] That was hard to watch given oh I just wanted to drop kick his ass so bad for him.

[01:13:37] He was so not worthy to wear that crown from Aegon the Conqueror and carry that sword.

[01:13:44] I understand why they did it. It is definitely symbolic of the succession you know that crown

[01:13:51] and that sword but still it was pretty hard to see him wear that and that crown hasn't been worn

[01:13:59] since Megar the one also known or first I guess you should say also known as Megar the Cruel

[01:14:06] and maybe that's why they haven't used that crown since then because Viserys wore

[01:14:14] Jiharis' crown so maybe there's a good reason. Yeah it's interesting that they didn't use

[01:14:20] Viserys' crown. They definitely wanted to set him apart from Jiharis and Viserys

[01:14:28] which you know he clearly you can see that that is the case. I mean he doesn't look like he has

[01:14:38] peace and tranquility written all over him or anything. Yeah right.

[01:14:46] Oh and in the beginning of if anyone's still watching which I hope they are if not just

[01:14:52] for the theme alone right the traditional theme from Game of Thrones now used in House of

[01:14:57] the Dragon where you get the blood that flows and you get like basically the Targaryen tree.

[01:15:05] Allicent has been added she's got her little family tree circle which shows House Hightower

[01:15:11] Sigil which is I did not notice that. Yep so her the House Hightower Sigil it's a tower

[01:15:17] in a flame which represents Old Town and the seven pointed star the faith of the seven behind

[01:15:22] it is what has on her now or on her new family tree circle. Helena's circle shows a spider

[01:15:34] which makes sense because she's got an affinity for those critters.

[01:15:40] Aegon symbol appears to be a dragon egg and naked woman.

[01:15:44] I mean not surprising and help us all. Yeah and Amon's has a sapphire

[01:15:56] which pay attention because it could be important. Could be.

[01:16:02] And in the episode last week Helena did mention her children we didn't get to see them but she

[01:16:08] did mention them in this episode we finally did get to see two little blonde haired grandchildren

[01:16:13] of Queen Allicent King Viserys they are twins a boy and a girl named Jehara and Jeharus.

[01:16:21] Because that's easy. And then one thing that I thought was kind of interesting because I always

[01:16:24] listen you know I try to pay attention when someone is speaking and do you ever notice when

[01:16:29] someone when they're talking and when they say the word but have you ever heard the phrase

[01:16:34] that everything that someone's or what did they say in everything that comes before the but

[01:16:41] is is now like negated right and I think that Benjen Stark told Tyrion Lannister at the wall

[01:16:52] he said yeah that that's exactly that nothing someone says before the word but really counts

[01:16:58] and in this episode Otto when he's talking when the council starts and everyone's sitting down

[01:17:04] he says we grieve for Viserys the peaceful our sovereign our friend and then he says but

[01:17:14] he has left us a gift with his last last breath he impressed upon the queen his final wish that

[01:17:19] his son Aeons should succeed him as lord of the seven kingdoms do you think that puts a

[01:17:25] little bit of doubt on how much he considered Viserys the sovereign and his friend I think that at

[01:17:35] one time that was true but you know power corrupts people and absolute power corrupts absolutely

[01:17:45] so I don't think that it's true anymore I think he's put on an act I think he probably at least

[01:17:52] has for some time considering that he's been plotting with the other people on the council to just

[01:17:59] completely disregard what Viserys said about Renea being his heir he he declared her his heir

[01:18:06] and he's been working with the council for a year like Viserys just died this you know it's not

[01:18:11] like so he's been plotting for some time to um you know get Aegon on the throne so maybe maybe

[01:18:20] at one time he did but I don't think for for a while he has thought that at all because clearly

[01:18:26] he's been working against that. Mm-hmm. Pisses me off again. What a f**k on her. Snake of a human.

[01:18:34] Yeah they're all such terrible people and we're like let's watch another one.

[01:18:39] I'm ready to be hurt again. My wounds are just starting to scab over so it's a good time

[01:18:47] to rip them off. Yep but that was my longest point so just a couple of things that I thought

[01:18:53] were interesting to point out because there's so many details they really are great about the

[01:18:57] details and it's so easy to overlook some things or not notice things right away and I love details

[01:19:02] like that. Mm-hmm. So yeah anyway. I love it that you listed them out thank you. Of course.

[01:19:14] Um okay what I have to go through my notes real quick and see what I have not

[01:19:21] talked about because we've kind of been all over the place which I love. So I do I you know what I

[01:19:29] also have a couple of really kind of little things as well I mean the the Green Council meeting I

[01:19:35] don't think that we've really touched on that yet I don't know is that something that you're

[01:19:39] planning to talk about? Not in detail and I think at this point I have mostly just kind of quick

[01:19:45] points or small notes. Yeah. So yeah. So I mean we've kind of touched on the closed Green Council

[01:19:54] meeting here and there. I do recommend to anybody that wants to know kind of the

[01:20:02] differences between the show and the book at least for this Green Council meeting.

[01:20:07] I think that it's worth listening to in book talk just for episode specific.

[01:20:13] For this episode because Rennie does a really good job of kind of breaking it all down and

[01:20:18] laying it all out and there are some kind of interesting things that are that you know

[01:20:23] were happening in the book but at the same time I'll say and at the same time not but

[01:20:32] at the same time this scene was really done really well and and we have talked about it

[01:20:40] but I just want to kind of focus in it just a little bit on Westerling and Kristen Cole because

[01:20:48] these two are so pivotal in this scene right. I mean first of all and Rennie says this

[01:20:56] in book talk, Kristen Cole draws first blood of this war by killing Lord Beesberry

[01:21:06] and it's interesting to me that this man has so much rage

[01:21:16] that he's able to kill him just by slamming his head down on that ball. I mean

[01:21:22] I don't know. I mean you have to do it pretty hard to kill somebody correct? I mean I would assume so.

[01:21:31] Well I've never done it but I would assume that yes. I've never killed a human.

[01:21:35] Although I do know that like your temple, that bone right there in your temple is the thinnest

[01:21:42] part of your skull. Like the skull is pretty thick bone right but that temple area it's very

[01:21:52] I guess more easily broken or penetrated or whatever. It's just it's more susceptible I guess.

[01:22:00] It's if you get hit in the temple it would hurt you worse or affect you more there versus if it

[01:22:05] had been like on the top or other part of your skull so but yes I've yeah it definitely took some

[01:22:12] force. The dude was bleeding out pretty hard so clearly he didn't just thump him and it

[01:22:18] did like all the internal stuff. I mean it was enough to like penetrate and it was yeah he's got some

[01:22:25] serious rage issues. Yes he does. Every time he kills somebody he gets another promotion but it's gross.

[01:22:34] Yes it is it absolutely is. No consequences for killing people in the gen- and just like in front

[01:22:39] of everyone. And he knows that he's above the law because his Lord Commander tells him to you

[01:22:48] give up his sword and take off your cloak. And he just comes right back at him. He's like no I'm not

[01:22:54] going to do that. He's like you know I'm not going to sit here and stand by while my queen is

[01:23:00] insulted. And it's not until Malacent calls him off that he actually does something so

[01:23:07] he's not a Kingsguard. He's not a member of the Kingsguard. He is

[01:23:12] Malacent's sworn protector and that's about it. He seems to only have that tunnel vision for her

[01:23:18] and nothing else. And that's a dangerous spot to be and um Westerling sees it. I'm sure everybody

[01:23:27] else sees it. Um and I love the fact that the writing is on the walls and the Lord Commander

[01:23:39] of the Kingsguard takes his cloak off because he sees what's happening and he wants no part of it.

[01:23:46] And to me that and they let him leave the room. Very interesting. Tells you how powerful of a

[01:23:55] man he is for him to be let go when Otto was very very adamant about the door staying closed

[01:24:05] until this business of succession is over. Not even to let them clear out Lord Beesbury after

[01:24:11] you know because he's lying there bleeding out dead on the table but oh no we got to keep

[01:24:17] business going and we can't let anyone in or out but yeah you're right they he he leaves.

[01:24:26] Yeah so I mean it's small but the the infighting with the Kingsguard I think was

[01:24:36] really quite intense during an already intense scene. Yeah and on the other on the other side

[01:24:45] of the table Allison at the same time was very um what's the word I'm looking for? I'm still losing

[01:24:54] my word so I apologize but she was really defensive of Reneira. She didn't want anybody talking

[01:25:01] badly about Viserys' daughter you know she wanted to at least have the respect for Reneira in that

[01:25:10] room when they were talking you know she says later that uh I'm sorry what did she say to her father

[01:25:17] I think it's hilarious um where is it? I have it somewhere or she said I'm sorry that you know

[01:25:26] I oh reluctance to murder is not a weakness. I loved it I thought like yeah that's

[01:25:34] yeah that's true. You know so but when and I don't know all of their names I've just you know I feel

[01:25:45] like we've really done a good job remembering all these names but now I'm just like lanking on all

[01:25:51] of the names but the one that was sitting directly to her left that she threatened to send to the

[01:25:57] wall if he said one more word that's I yeah the name escapes me too but I loved how crazy she got

[01:26:07] there and crazy again is a bad word but I just love how formidable she became like she's just like

[01:26:14] no we're not going to do this you are not going to talk if you say one more word about this

[01:26:19] I'm gonna send you to the wall like you could just shut up right now so there were a lot of

[01:26:25] really good moments in this council meeting and you know I I'm upset at how it turned out and I'm

[01:26:34] upset about how Otto seems to have been the leader of this meeting but I really really really enjoyed

[01:26:44] watching kind of how the scene unfolds and how the pieces of the the match are being kind of

[01:26:53] set up on the board so yeah that was kind of little but it was definitely my uh

[01:27:00] the last thing that I wanted to talk about before I just had like a couple of little things

[01:27:05] I like it yeah I loved Lord Westerlings Bearstons sell me moment for sure that's definitely whatever

[01:27:12] uh what I was reminded of so I thought that was great he he's definitely a commanding presence

[01:27:17] and very important obviously um person and character um and freaking Kristen Cole just screw that guy

[01:27:26] I'm just so sick of him I hate him so much I want to punch him in the face and drop kick his ass too

[01:27:31] but I did love that uh I feel like we got a little bit of a moment just to um goof on him

[01:27:39] a little bit because they made him wear that funky hat while they were out looking for him

[01:27:44] in Kingsland that was wonderful he looked like a fool so I do appreciate that like okay yeah let's

[01:27:51] make him wear a goofy hat that's one little piece of satisfaction I can get that dude again screw

[01:27:57] that guy he he says what does he say every woman is the image of the mother um and should be revered

[01:28:07] but yet he called Rinnera see you next Tuesday yes he did yes he did so screw you that you know

[01:28:16] that isn't what you're a freaking hypocrite so shut up punch him I totally agree yeah I'll be

[01:28:26] right there with you I will not hold you back don't I go do you on I'm I'm I'm so mad that uh

[01:28:32] what was it in the second episode the hunting trip with him and Rinnera uh when they were on the the

[01:28:38] Kings hunt and you know before things went sour with him and Rinnera uh I was like look at that guy

[01:28:47] yeah that's that's a nice moment there and it was all downhill from there so I'm I'm mad that I

[01:28:52] even yes ever said right um the actors play in the hell out of the park though I mean you

[01:29:00] really hate him oh yeah and that again even though I love to hate him uh he's doing a fantastic job so

[01:29:08] kudos to the actor and this is all reflected on character not actor at all um he's doing

[01:29:15] a fantastic job for sure and it can't be easy I mean it's it's because he's I've seen him in

[01:29:23] some interviews and he seems like a super nice guy I and I hope that he really is um

[01:29:28] but man to play a character like this and then to get I think anyway for at least if your team

[01:29:34] black you hate this character so much it's gotta be really hard so that's really great so yeah so

[01:29:45] let's go to notes yeah got for notes well I mean we've talked about Lord West Rilling and we've

[01:29:51] talked about the twins but I want to uh one of my notes was let's pour one out for men who

[01:29:56] remember what an oath is and that includes Lord West Rilling, Eric Cargill and Lord Casswell he is the one

[01:30:05] that um at first did not want to bend the knee when Otto had all of the lords in the throne room

[01:30:14] and he did but he was doing it I think like I'm going to just do this and get the hell out

[01:30:20] right um so Lord Casswell he was the one that greeted Reneara after she gave birth to Joffrey

[01:30:25] as she's making her walk um yes and then he is the one that also alone welcomed her back from

[01:30:33] Dragonstone that was Lord Casswell so RIP to Lord Casswell I think he was the one that was hanging

[01:30:40] later he was yeah oh she was so you know they they remembered what an oath oath is so

[01:30:49] anyway um we talked about Miss Syria um talked about the music I you know what I honestly think that

[01:30:58] during all of these um where I was just kind of adding to your points um I've already covered

[01:31:06] very covered all of my points so shockingly that's all I've got well I only have a few too

[01:31:15] because I think that we've had a really nice conversation tonight um I do I said that um

[01:31:22] I wrote here that there was no Reneara or Daemon this week but their presence was really felt

[01:31:28] anyways and that really shows how like great their characters are because they weren't there

[01:31:34] at all but you still felt their presence in the show they don't lift out you know there are

[01:31:40] some characters that if you don't see them during an episode even if they're a main character

[01:31:44] you're like I didn't really miss that character but you know in this character in this um episode

[01:31:51] you just can't wait to find out what's gonna happen when all this comes down at Dragonstone

[01:32:00] so I'm really looking forward to that um I really love

[01:32:06] you're gonna hate this but I really love Amond I just the actor that's playing him the way

[01:32:12] that it's just he's so exciting to watch he's so intriguing the small like nonverbal exchange

[01:32:20] that he had with that lady on the street of silk I just want to know what bad things happen to him

[01:32:27] in that room to make him so uncomfortable just being at the doorstep I just um

[01:32:34] I see that he was very clearly uncomfortable and I don't know what that means about him

[01:32:39] maybe it means something about a sexuality maybe it means something about him just being maybe even

[01:32:45] asexual yeah um you know he just he definitely has a story there um and he's he's just so methodical

[01:32:58] and he seems to always kind of have it together and I loved how he was going to let Agon get on

[01:33:04] that ship if it wasn't for Chris and Cole like he was like yeah man I'll take you to a ship

[01:33:07] that sounds great let's do that yeah because he has it for some reason in his head that he's the

[01:33:13] next in line to the throne which I don't know where he got that at all he's not just for anyone else

[01:33:20] who thought oh yeah yeah he is no he's not um no he's because as soon as uh well I mean honestly

[01:33:28] he's not anyway because it is Raniera Raniera is there to the throne but let's say that Agon was

[01:33:34] the air true heir to the throne well he has children so that immediately takes uh Aamond out of

[01:33:42] the running it's very similar to like if you look at the England's royal family you know that we have

[01:33:48] today you know there's Charles and then there was William and Harry right and William is the

[01:33:54] heir because he's the oldest and so Harry um was despair until William had children now as soon

[01:34:00] as William had children that took Harry way down the line um as far as the succession works the same

[01:34:08] in Game of Thrones so for anyone that was I was confused why he said that I don't know if it's

[01:34:13] just his wish because he seemed to imply that he I mean he went so far as to almost saying

[01:34:19] he and he stopped himself because if he said it it would have been like treason right had he

[01:34:23] said it if he had said it like it should be me or I should be king I think is something

[01:34:29] when he was getting ready to say um right so I think he sees himself as that but I'm I was confused

[01:34:38] why he said that anyway well you know I think that he's also somebody that if he wants it

[01:34:44] he takes it so he's that's really pretty sure he could easily get it yeah and look I totally get

[01:34:51] the admiration for the character he's interesting he's very much uh like a

[01:34:55] uh a daemon wannabe uh daemon 2.0 he even has a he even has a hooded cloak he has a kill cloak

[01:35:02] he's got the kill cloak yeah he's got a he's very excited about it getting into

[01:35:07] rescay business kind of cloak yeah up to no good cloak if you will um so yeah I totally get

[01:35:13] that appreciation for Aamon's character I look I it's I'm not I don't hate everyone

[01:35:22] but I do get the fascination and he has an interesting intriguing character and

[01:35:28] the actors killing it for sure mm-hmm he's I just I every single time he's in a scene I'm like cool

[01:35:34] I'm excited to see what happens mm-hmm so earlier I said that I had a something to say about the

[01:35:44] Helena and turning away from the coronation and not looking yes I think it was because of the

[01:35:49] beast beneath the boards I think that maybe because she has the sight um that she knew what was coming

[01:35:56] and I think that she was terrified of what was coming um but you know I could be wrong

[01:36:02] well that's the thing with uh these like prophecies that she puts out there they

[01:36:10] can be interpreted in so many different ways so I don't think that you're necessarily wrong

[01:36:14] I wasn't sure how to take it honestly I know that she kept looking away um I I'm not sure

[01:36:21] really what it was all about um Helena's an interesting character so I don't think there's

[01:36:26] a wrong way to interpret um that that prophecy and what she was saying in in her behavior

[01:36:31] so I don't know that there was a clear cut answer at least for me why she was doing that I would

[01:36:36] agree with that yeah I would agree with that but that's kind of how I took it mm-hmm for this

[01:36:42] episode I am you know whether or not her prophecies have more foreshadowing like in the future

[01:36:49] you know I guess we'll see what comes to pass but for the immediate um episode specific

[01:36:56] thing that she said the beast beneath the boards and she was very insistent on it for two episodes

[01:37:01] she's talked about the beast beneath the boards to see the beast come up from beneath the

[01:37:05] boards was pretty yeah I think you could definitely take it that uh for this episode

[01:37:13] it could mean for something for the future as well but it definitely

[01:37:17] was felt in this episode with Maley's and and Rainey's for sure mm-hmm and just kudos to

[01:37:28] um is it who who what is the actress's name that plays that plays alicent Olivia cook

[01:37:37] thank you there's been so there's been two different actors I keep getting them all mixed up but Emily

[01:37:43] cook Olivia cook did a phenomenal job this week mm-hmm I was captivated by alicent this week

[01:37:53] um all of her mannerisms everything that she was doing and I think a lot of that had to do with

[01:37:59] the fact that she wasn't fighting with Renea she was just going through the motions of what

[01:38:05] was supposed to happen you know at at King's Landing at the Red Keep and I just thought that

[01:38:11] she just hit it out of the park so lots of really strong acting this week lots of amazing

[01:38:17] writing it was solid solid episode one of my top for the season for sure yeah really great I loved it too

[01:38:25] and super excited for next week the finale yeah um so let's go into listener feedback

[01:38:39] excellent you want me to take that first one yeah sure all right so Steve Barr writes in

[01:38:46] and says anyone read fire and blood and good writing parody lyrics I had some ideas around

[01:38:53] House of the Dragon using the devil went down to Georgia I'm not going to sing this FYI um Damon

[01:39:00] flew down to Drift I was hoping that you would no girl you're the singer in this duo here not me so

[01:39:10] he writes Damon flew down to Driftmark Damon flew down to Driftmark he was looking to make

[01:39:16] Renea squeal he was in a bind because his wife just died and his appetites were familiar I don't know

[01:39:24] if you win you get this throne of swords of old but if he helps Lairz gets her soul

[01:39:30] S-O-L-E spelled S-O-L-E is very creative Steve now you have to record it

[01:39:39] and send it in and we'll play it yeah I agree that'd be great that was really really good thank

[01:39:45] you Alma Contreras says I knew I was gonna be completely on edge with this episode because

[01:39:53] the Greens finally put their plan to usurp the throne forward and I am so done with Kristen Cole

[01:39:59] how he is able to maintain his status after the few people he has killed plus has he been made

[01:40:06] he's been made captain of the Kingsguard RIP Beesbury, Olicent, Little Miss Virtuous letting

[01:40:12] Larry's do his foot fetish thing I admit I was thrown back when this scene played out

[01:40:18] totally not expecting that at all Reneas and Mellies were absolutely awesome I was

[01:40:25] totally yelling Dracarys but they didn't hear me great episode and is it me or does every

[01:40:32] episode seem better than the last can't wait to tune into the cast and hear y'all's reactions

[01:40:37] team black it's awesome thank you Alma Penny Lennox says I joined the throngs declaring for

[01:40:46] Renees queen legend I agree uh what was Otto's plan to hide Aegon outside the city until he killed

[01:40:56] Renea and Daemon and why did Allison physically having Aegon give her the ability to override

[01:41:02] Otto's plans palace intrigue and the dead of night is my favorite what's the current status of

[01:41:08] Lenor's dragons sea smoke right he must know Lenor is alive yep we I don't know we haven't seen

[01:41:16] sea smoke so can't answer that question yeah because the dragon would know if he was alive

[01:41:24] right I mean they're bonded yeah we talked about it quite extensively uh in in that episode

[01:41:30] that I'm super confused um about that because he he would know that bond is very strong

[01:41:40] psychically strong not just like you know all the things but I think you could almost kind of

[01:41:46] feel that and see that even with Renees and Mellies in that episode I think that she did

[01:41:51] kind of speak to her but it was very you couldn't hear it but I saw her whisper some words

[01:41:56] or something to Mellies but I feel like there's communication there that isn't always spoken

[01:42:02] if if that makes sense absolutely absolutely um Erica furter says Renees really blew me away

[01:42:11] this episode with so few words her face acting was fire I agree Eve Best is just amazing we

[01:42:19] don't talk about her enough um she's the actress yeah Renees she's incredible

[01:42:26] Alicia Stout says great episode I wanted to point out something none of us have talked about this

[01:42:31] entire season which is the amazing music by uh ramen Jawadi uh the music in each episode has

[01:42:37] been nothing but beautiful striking and harmonious I've also noticed it in past episodes but more

[01:42:42] so in this episode how much some of his pieces emulate other pieces from Game of Thrones

[01:42:47] for example the scene when Allison is speaking with her daughter Helena and asking if she knows

[01:42:51] where Aegon's whereabouts are it is really similar to the music in the scene in Game of

[01:42:55] Thrones when Varys's little birds uh led Lancel under the septive baler before it blew up

[01:43:02] I agree yeah and if you go to Facebook uh she actually uploaded um a YouTube clip of that

[01:43:10] scene and then she tells you exactly where to go into the episode of this week to kind of

[01:43:16] match up the music if anybody wants to do that um I thought that that was really kind of great

[01:43:22] that she put together a really nice piece of feedback with um some links for people to go and

[01:43:29] get help and listen to it thank you Alicia for doing the work that's great yes uh Hihoputia says

[01:43:37] Renees is my hero what a badass oh there is going to be some health pay she should have

[01:43:43] ride Allison and Aegon could have avoided a lot of bloodshed but what kind of a show would it be

[01:43:49] if it made all the wise decisions can't wait to see Renees answer next week oh me too girl me too

[01:43:57] it's gonna be worth waiting for I I think

[01:44:02] Lindsay Schlick says I actually liked Allison this episode I was a little surprised to see her

[01:44:08] so sad it made me happy she seemed to have true love for Viserys her attempts to save Reneer were

[01:44:16] hopeful too I know they will likely amount to nothing and I'll probably be hating her again

[01:44:20] next episode but it was nice to see a kinder side of her again to be reminded of who she used to be

[01:44:26] the scene with Laris was beyond disgusting this is one of those times where the time

[01:44:32] jumps could have been maybe better explained how he went from Laris's creeping around

[01:44:37] and kissing up to the queen to that I totally agree I think there was a little bit of foreshadowing

[01:44:46] just a tad bit to that I think in episode six when he I think it was that episode I could be

[01:44:52] wrong but there was a scene between him and uh Allison and he said something about oh I'm

[01:45:00] sure there'll be a way that you can pay me back for that or something and he's it's it's

[01:45:04] she had taken her shoes off I think and he glances at her feet and says that and I think there was a

[01:45:12] little bit of a glimpse to I think I have to look I have to oh gross I have to go back and look

[01:45:20] you oh and you know what one thing that we didn't talk about that just I just

[01:45:25] was reminded by this um was Laris offering to be a double agent to Otto you know

[01:45:34] I wondered that I don't know I mean I I don't know the answer to that question but I have the same

[01:45:39] question or did he look at his feet too well Otto I've seen I had there's a price to pay

[01:45:49] so you need to get your kicks look no kink shaming here on my side of things it was just

[01:45:55] not what I was expecting at all uh to to to see that and um you know yeah we didn't we didn't mention

[01:46:04] that and we should have and we also didn't mention uh what was it it looked like uh

[01:46:10] Miseries house burning yeah did uh Laris come through talking about I think that was one of

[01:46:20] his silent army people yeah so yeah yeah I don't know it did kind of sound like he was offering

[01:46:29] similar services to Otto but Otto might say no if he knows the price to pay for that information

[01:46:34] well or I mean I don't know I mean if I knew that my daughter was being subjected to that too

[01:46:39] I'd probably slit his throat so yeah the auto auto horde his uh his daughter out to

[01:46:47] the king for his own benefit so yeah he may not care where his bottom is yeah

[01:46:54] sherry morford says wow what an episode reines is a badass I already loved your character but damn

[01:47:01] if only she had jacar as the fork out of everyone on that dais I have a feeling a lot of future

[01:47:07] deaths would be prevented also have to mention larry's in the foot fetish don't want to

[01:47:12] shame someone's kink but come on alicent you are better than this or so I thought I'm grossed out

[01:47:19] because I know she's grossed out but she still puts her best feet forward

[01:47:28] I think what did it for me more was just the fact that he's doing it right there with her

[01:47:34] um like she's just looking away and she knows what's going on and I'm like fine you're into

[01:47:41] feet but you're you're right there and that's the queen man have show some respect yeah it's it's

[01:47:50] fine have your thing I'm okay with that we all got something but um yeah can you get behind a curtain

[01:47:58] or something I don't know um cool

[01:48:05] may almerdini says damn reynies won the episode she served alicent some tea I believe she her

[01:48:14] mercy came from a motherly place when she saw alicent stand in front of agon not that it would

[01:48:19] have made a difference I wonder how sir christin would feel about alicent showing larry's her

[01:48:25] feet not so virtuous now I missed uh damon and rinnear this episode I'm sure we'll get a lot of

[01:48:32] them next week I hope so we will Karen stole madero says reynies the queen that should have

[01:48:42] fucking been wow yes windy otte eppers says well they told reynies to ring when she had an answer

[01:48:52] ding dong

[01:48:56] I'm loving this feedback this week it is on point

[01:49:01] Mike Vales says mailies was awesome I really enjoyed that yeah it was great

[01:49:10] looks like we we have an email uh from Tammy says hi guys I love listening to your podcast

[01:49:17] religiously every week you guys are awesome patty thank you patty did a great job as

[01:49:23] viscera I hate viscera the writers keep trying to make him a nice guy while all I keep seeing is

[01:49:30] his failures and everything he killed Emma for a son got with alicent made three children with her

[01:49:36] then leave all the responsibilities of a father to her she could barely care for herself then

[01:49:42] you dare say reynier is your only child that is just foul so alicent was just your sex slave

[01:49:47] and your kids by her are hers I hear women overlooking these these because they dislike

[01:49:54] alicent for not fucking around like precious reynier the notion that alicent want to be like

[01:50:00] reynier and envy her is crazy talk reynier is being plotted to look like a good character but

[01:50:05] bad things keep happening to people that are in her way luck or plot armor I don't like it when

[01:50:10] writers shield a character from choices they would have made making egg on the second a rape

[01:50:16] is to diminish to diminish his image before audience to elevate reynier is a crime against

[01:50:21] game of thrones rapist is not in his personality trait he rides dragons a prince with money

[01:50:26] he should be Tyrion not Ramsey even Ramsey wasn't rapist until you raped his wife

[01:50:33] disagree I very much disagree with that I disagree with that last sentence especially

[01:50:41] Ramsey was always Ramsey he was he raped his wife because he was a rapist because he was a

[01:50:47] sadistic man because he went out to hurt other people and he got off on that that was what

[01:50:54] that was his his pleasure center so I definitely disagree with that but go on what were you gonna

[01:51:02] say I essentially agree with you I also disagree with you know saying that rape is not in

[01:51:12] egg on the second's personality trait that that was a gun the bad things that you saw in this episode

[01:51:20] I mean they've been showing us what kind of a person he is very early before any of this came

[01:51:27] about right and other episodes and he's just gotten worse as he's gotten older

[01:51:33] and there are I'll say it without being specific there's worse things in the book

[01:51:39] that we didn't see yeah so I have to disagree with that part

[01:51:50] yeah but think I mean and go ahead I was just gonna say thanks for you know at least writing in and

[01:51:57] you know giving you know it's here it's interesting to hear different viewpoints

[01:52:01] but I do disagree with that last part I was just gonna say the same thing like thank you so much

[01:52:07] for you know sending in the feedback and feeling like you could send in feedback that you know was

[01:52:13] an unpopular opinion because that can sometimes be hard yeah um you know and there's some really

[01:52:19] good points being made here you know with you know the series was so focused on having a male

[01:52:28] heir that his wife did end up dying for it even though she didn't want to have the children

[01:52:34] he did ignore the three children that he did have with um Allicent and Allicent was

[01:52:42] not a very motherly mother um at all so you know those those are really good points but

[01:52:49] yeah um I think that Aegon is absolutely fits perfectly in his character that he is a rapist

[01:52:56] and worse um and you know that'll probably unfold as time goes on yep so Dez Combs had an email too

[01:53:07] hi Dez Dez has a very long email I cut out a little bit of it so but I'm gonna try and go with it

[01:53:16] anyways alright Dez these are just some random thoughts I've had through the season but didn't

[01:53:22] get the chance to share please please please stop calling those of us who haven't read any of Martin's

[01:53:28] books non-book readers it makes us sound like illiterate degenerates betting on preschool knife

[01:53:33] fights in the bottom in non-book reader uh watching Game of Thrones I was one of those people who

[01:53:42] thought Targaryens were at least fire resistant if not fireproof it's a good thing that they

[01:53:47] aren't if they were you would see the council testing for royal paternity by setting children on fire

[01:53:53] oh gosh that's a few weeks a few weeks back I was raging while listening to the podcast I

[01:54:00] equated the whole sir Kristen Raniro one night stand to a drunken frat guy who got turned down by a girl

[01:54:05] and went and had sex with a girl he really he knew really liked him Raniro of course got worked up

[01:54:10] by Daemon then rejected so went to Kristen at the and at the time I felt like she used him

[01:54:17] didn't even seem to come around to this thinking as the conversation continued but you know what

[01:54:22] f that guy get over it dude she used you for fun for one night that doesn't excuse all of his

[01:54:27] giant baby man fits a bridge that we have seen time and time again this season okay the green

[01:54:33] council at first I was thinking that Allison was really mourning the loss of a husband she

[01:54:38] actually loved nope she's crying from stress she knows that she can't hide behind visceris anymore

[01:54:44] she could always say that the king wishes this or that she is now responsible for all of her

[01:54:50] decisions now she also realizes she and her father don't exactly agree on how to get things done

[01:54:56] he lets a network of spies run loose through the red keep and then she lets her ally

[01:55:02] and she lets her ally get his jollies off on her beautiful feet obviously the best part of

[01:55:07] this episode was Rani's riding through the coronation on Mellies Mellies if only they had just

[01:55:13] let her say one more word at the end Dracarys I just want to say one more time what a great job

[01:55:19] you too and all of your guest hosts have done this season sorry for rambling on but this

[01:55:24] episode is going to hit four hours anyway right hey friend we are keeping it we're keeping it

[01:55:29] tight this week so we have one voicemail Steve we don't have a live steving this this week I'm so

[01:55:38] sorry what's that oh I was just gonna say I guess we could just say non instead of saying non book

[01:55:46] readers we can just say uh if you haven't read the books or for those that haven't read the books

[01:55:51] I don't know I'll have to coin another term well Dez it's fine don't worry about it

[01:55:57] I've certainly met no disrespect I have a feeling he's just being sarcastic

[01:56:05] oh if I know Dez yeah I did like your email though that was very good Dez thank you very much

[01:56:17] okay so here is Jodi's voicemail hey dragoncast it's Jodi here I just finished watching episode

[01:56:25] eight of House of the Dragon and I just had a tiny tiny message that I wanted to share

[01:56:30] and that is that I really want the green team to suck it that's it it's a whole message love you

[01:56:36] guys love everything you do thank you so much for the podcast bye just what the green team

[01:56:49] what else is there to say nothing it's perfect we could have a much shorter podcast if we

[01:56:56] would just say that I think that should be our new sign off yeah the green team can suck it

[01:57:06] that was fantastic thank you Jodi and what a fantastic accent too yes it sounds very New Zealand

[01:57:15] love it we have a dear friend in New Zealand so

[01:57:20] love you Ann Wynne love you Ann Wynne working hard on her rings of power podcast

[01:57:27] yes go check that out yep okay now we're gonna go into book talk and as usual we have rustled up

[01:57:37] March Maester Renny for our episode 9 Delight welcome back thank you for joining us again

[01:57:45] oh I'm happy to be here again especially this week oh my gosh yes yeah so I think we're

[01:57:54] gonna have a little bit of a different book talk today because there's not a lot of similarities

[01:57:59] it's more differences would I be correct in this assessment completely correct I I tried to formulate

[01:58:08] what's the same and here it is the green council meets to plan a coup agon gets crowned

[01:58:18] but everything about the way that those things happen is different

[01:58:24] it was I I think I was my I think I was getting whiplash watching the episode from wait that's

[01:58:32] different wait that's different wait that's different yeah so many things

[01:58:38] now see okay so here's the question different in a good way or different in a bad way

[01:58:42] different in such a great way so what what I really want to do is um highlight some of

[01:58:50] the differences uh the different choices that they've made in the show and then talk about

[01:58:55] what I think they mean and um what I think is going on is that they have really

[01:59:03] focused so I would say George R R Martin thinks patriarchy's kind of a bad idea and he kind of

[01:59:09] says in the book it's not so great what I think this episode does is say patriarchy

[01:59:14] is the devil and here's how it works like just cranked up so much further and so I

[01:59:23] I loved the changes that they made I I know that book purists don't like it when big deviations

[01:59:31] happen but I'm not a book purist what I want to see is the best possible adaptation that can be

[01:59:38] made and that is exactly what I think they are doing so I think you're right on with that um

[01:59:46] especially since we have an adaptation um and this is something that I go over um in as one of my

[01:59:54] points in the actual episodes but this is um this is written by men this is a story that has

[02:00:01] been written by men compiled by men deciphered by men and you know

[02:00:08] timelineed by men so I think that this adaptation of what the perspective is from a woman's

[02:00:17] perspective is actually really refreshing and it's great to see that there are all of these

[02:00:22] strong fierce women in these histories and in these tales and oftentimes their stories aren't

[02:00:28] told right so exactly that um I would even go as far to say is their stories are not told

[02:00:37] um unless they're being burned at the stake for being a witch or something right um right so

[02:00:43] it's nice to see well and even then we're not hearing their story we're hearing a story

[02:00:49] that's told about them exactly exactly yeah okay so we are going to go into the

[02:00:57] episode specific book talk and when you hear my super awesome alarm you're going to know

[02:01:04] that we're going to go into the um non-episode specific the big picture stuff so uh if you're

[02:01:12] listening you want to hear what was episode specific uh keep listening and if you want to

[02:01:17] cut off when we get to the bigger stuff and the more spoilery stuff I will give you the alarm

[02:01:22] and we'll go from there okay so let's let's hit it okay um so last week with the end of last

[02:01:30] week's episode uh we came to the end of a chapter in fire and blood that chapter was called

[02:01:35] airs of the dragon colon a question of succession and this week we started a new chapter which is

[02:01:43] called airs of the dragon colon the blacks and the greens and we've really picked up the paste

[02:01:49] because this episode covers 12 book pages and the episodes up to now have been averaging five

[02:01:56] book pages however nothing at all happened the same way in the show as in the book so uh the

[02:02:05] majority of the 12 book pages that are covered by this episode are devoted to the small council

[02:02:12] meeting and its um outcomes uh the title the green council comes from the historical account by

[02:02:19] grand maester munkin who's one of the sources for archmaester gill dames writing of fire and blood

[02:02:26] and he dubbed the convening of the small council the green council so when visceris's body was

[02:02:34] discovered just after sunset uh the servant who found the body ran to inform queen alicent and

[02:02:43] the tidings were delivered to queen alicent alone rather than raising a general alarm and

[02:02:49] the suggestion is that the king since the king's death had been anticipated for some time

[02:02:55] alicent and the green party had instructed all the servants uh what to do when the day came

[02:03:01] mushroom has a more sinister explanation that alicent actually poisoned uh visceris the show does not

[02:03:09] adopt that at all but mushroom because she does give him you know his medicine we don't know what

[02:03:18] it could have been i think it could have been open to interpretation if we want it to be maybe

[02:03:24] um but she seemed to be expressing so much care for him it seemed unlikely in the show that she

[02:03:31] would actually poison him and i i took that to be just more milk of the poppy that she was giving

[02:03:36] him of course he may have odied on milk of the poppy who knows the fact that he hadn't yet is a miracle

[02:03:43] i know i don't know how they found that balance because he looked like he was consuming

[02:03:49] a lot of that so yeah he could have i guess it could have just been succumbing to his illness or

[02:03:53] potentially yeah and this would have been a speculation on mushroom's part anyway because

[02:03:59] he wasn't there he was on dragon stone with raniera at the time um so allison and christine

[02:04:05] black he was team black mushroom is team black of course he thinks allison killed visceris

[02:04:10] that's right right so yeah oh mushrooms all about raniera yes yeah um so allison and christine

[02:04:19] coal confirmed that visceris is dead and they have the servant who found him locked up and you know

[02:04:27] and they shut up visceris's chamber in order to keep the death secret and uh they uh summoned

[02:04:35] this small council allison is part of summoning the small council and they meet in the middle

[02:04:40] of the night and uh so here's the first enormous change from the show uh allison and ser christine

[02:04:49] not otto high tower are the ring leaders of the coup the ones who hush up the death

[02:04:54] and set up the council meeting and they the council didn't meet in the council chamber like

[02:05:00] they do in the show they met in the queen's apartments to make sure that they kept it as

[02:05:04] hush up hush as possible um and also a reminder that in the book ser herald westerling has been

[02:05:11] dead for 17 years he's no longer lord commander of the king's guard ser christine coal is lord

[02:05:17] commander of the king's guard and so ser herald's you know resignation of walking out that's

[02:05:23] just in the show which i thought was a great departure because i think it's really interesting

[02:05:30] like they're because it's completely new and i think it adds like a major new supporter

[02:05:37] yes you know for rinera and it really you know yes yes so i love that i i i like that yeah that

[02:05:43] departure um the other person who was not in king's landing is ser eric with an e

[02:05:51] because he is on dragonstone with rinera there are two kings guard who are deputized to

[02:05:58] to guard the air um so eric and arach aren't aren't together uh in the book and so the source for what

[02:06:08] happened that there's two sources for what happened in that small council meeting and one of them is

[02:06:13] completely unreliable because it's grand maester or while and it's confessions that he wrote

[02:06:21] after the fact after he had been tortured into making those confessions so not a very reliable

[02:06:27] source because he's trying to make himself look uh you know as least guilty of treason as possible

[02:06:32] and then the other sources are um rumors and secondhand accounts from many years later

[02:06:43] so according to or while the meeting starts with or while just talking about the things that are

[02:06:48] normally done when a king dies and uh auto cuts him off and says we need to wait about that

[02:06:55] until the succession is settled and nobody in the room at that point thinks that the succession

[02:07:00] isn't settled this is a new suggestion of of a coup and that's when allison says

[02:07:05] that the throne has to pass to agon agon as visceres is eldist trueborn son and they debate

[02:07:12] this till dawn there's no pre-existing conspiracy that allison was left out of

[02:07:18] and of course there was no prophecy that was motivating allison because that didn't exist

[02:07:22] in the in the show but once this discussion is going it's only lord beesberry who speaks on behalf

[02:07:29] of renera uh and uh so uh one of the arguments that auto makes against renera is that if she's queen

[02:07:40] then daemon who he calls lord flea bottom will be the one who really rules he can't believe that

[02:07:45] renera would rule right he thinks daemon would rule and that he will be as cruel and

[02:07:50] unforgiving as may gore ever was that's may gore the cruel cruel son of um agon the conqueror and

[02:07:57] visenya yeah yeah that's ridiculous it is ridiculous and auto says that daemon will have

[02:08:05] both himself auto and allison beheaded and allison adds that daemon will behead her

[02:08:11] children and grandchildren and as well she reminds the council that one of the strong boys

[02:08:17] put out aamon's eye and that bastards are monstrous by nature remember that idea common at the you

[02:08:24] know in this society that bastards are monstrous by nature because that's gonna come back to bite

[02:08:30] people in the future too and then ser christian says renera can't be queen because renera and

[02:08:37] daemon will turn the red keep into a brothel no man's daughter will be safe he says nor any man's

[02:08:44] wife even the boys we know what lanor was uh so christian is uh striking asshole i'm so

[02:08:57] remember in the book lanor is dead so there's no reason to think that uh they would that there

[02:09:03] would be anybody in the black party who would turn king's landing into a boy brothel but yeah

[02:09:09] he really made you know getting getting his heart stomped on into like a meal you know he made a real

[02:09:16] meal out of it i never know anybody to hold a 20 year gretch i know dude let it go so then um

[02:09:27] uh lord beesberry declares once and for all for renera and he's gonna leave and sources differ

[02:09:34] about what happened um or while says that otto ordered him to be seized and sent to the black

[02:09:40] sills where he died of a chill while he was awaiting trial septon uses says that ser christian slid his

[02:09:46] throat mushroom says ser christian threw him out a window and onto the iron spikes that are in the

[02:09:54] dry moat below the red keep one way or another he died i thought it was interesting the way they

[02:10:00] did it in the show and we finally know what the small council balls were for

[02:10:05] they and maybe why they were removed yeah yeah exactly that's why they don't have them anymore

[02:10:12] in the time of king robert brath and yeah they're like yeah let's not have those anymore a little bit

[02:10:16] of foreshadowing yeah a little bit of foreshadowing because it they really made a point to focus

[02:10:22] in on them uh someone oh i can't remember who it was that was getting ready to take their seat

[02:10:26] and place their little ball in their their spot uh just you know and then they start having that

[02:10:31] conversation and then he does that to to beesberry and uh so yeah i got found out found out that

[02:10:37] those aren't always a good thing and r.i.p beesberry first blood yeah first blood that was drawn

[02:10:44] that's right he is the first blood um so they decide um oh so laris remember is a

[02:10:54] a member of the small council in the book he's not in the show um and he suggests that

[02:10:59] the members of the of the small council be the first to swear fealty lest there be traitors

[02:11:04] amongst them uh so he cuts his palm and suggests that they make it a blood ha blood oath which

[02:11:10] they do with allicent alone excused because of her womanhood just so me off too i know that

[02:11:21] just makes me i just makes me mad i'm not gonna lie i know why am i not good enough yeah i know

[02:11:29] yes my blood was fine when it was you know when i was creating babies for you yeah that's right

[02:11:36] that's right so allicent sends the king's guard to fetch amond and agon they find amond right away

[02:11:44] he's in the practice yard getting ready to practice because he is he is serious um and uh he says

[02:11:54] is agon king or must we kneel and kiss the old whore's cunny so amond is not you know not in

[02:12:06] favor of rinera but he doesn't say anything whatsoever about wanting to be king himself

[02:12:11] um and so the king's guard go to helena's chambers looking for agon he's not there

[02:12:17] she has a very funny line that they didn't use in the show and i wish that they that they had

[02:12:22] um she tells them he isn't there and says feel free to search beneath the blankets

[02:12:31] that would have been so appropriate for uh for the show too you know seeing this house

[02:12:37] some of the times that we find him um or when alice finds him yeah yes it'd been good

[02:12:45] um so mushroom says that sar christin found agon in a flea bottom rat pit where children with

[02:12:51] filed teeth were fighting exactly as we saw in the show uh only according to mushroom agon was

[02:12:58] there watching the fights while a 12 year old girl was giving him a blow job um sept and used to

[02:13:06] says that agon was found with a paramour a well cared for daughter of a wealthy trader

[02:13:13] um and agon showed no interest in being king what sort of brother steals his sister's birthright

[02:13:20] he asks um and he's only convinced to go along with being king when christin convinces him that

[02:13:28] if rinera is crowned she'll have to kill him and his brothers now in the show they've used um

[02:13:36] the search for agon to set up many more things than in the than the book does the conflict between

[02:13:43] aric and eric um my sari is spy network and her investment in wanting to end some of the cruel

[02:13:50] practices in flea bottom um and the competition to find a competition between auto and alicent

[02:13:58] to find agon first doesn't happen in the book in the show it has rinera's life hanging in

[02:14:04] the balance uh because if auto finds him first he wants to wait for the coronation until they can go

[02:14:12] and murder rinera and alicent wants to do the coronation right away in the book there is no space

[02:14:18] between auto and alicent they are acting in complete concord with each other they what they

[02:14:25] introduce in the show i think much more interesting which yeah well again it's written by men so

[02:14:33] you just don't know um how it can really be interpreted um and i love that's right love

[02:14:41] how fascinating this episode is because of all of the unspoken words from the book

[02:14:48] there it shows kind of like the underlying thing of what's actually happening and i think it's a

[02:14:53] real testament to history itself you know and how history works yeah because history is written

[02:14:58] by the victors history's written by men so anyways go on yes um so just as in the show

[02:15:06] thailand lannister was immediately named master of coin uh in the place of the late lord visebury

[02:15:12] and he mentions in the show that he's going to divide the royal treasury in order to keep it

[02:15:18] safe and in the book there's further detail that he divides it into four parts

[02:15:22] he sends one part to the iron bank in bravos another part to castor lee rock and another to

[02:15:29] old town for safekeeping and he kept the remainder to use for bribes and for hiring sales wards

[02:15:38] and auto sends a sends a raven to pike to dalton grayjoy the red kraken uh to invite him

[02:15:45] to take thailand's place as master of ships on the small council uh so they send out ravens to all

[02:15:54] of the houses that they think will be supportive of agon uh and uh they did not send any ravens

[02:16:02] to dragon stone they're keeping it secret from renera they dug out the records of the great

[02:16:07] council of 101 to see who had supported reynice in that council on the grounds that they would

[02:16:14] be likely to support renera now and um they found that those who had supported reynice were all lesser

[02:16:21] houses except for the starks oh i was thinking maybe beratians she was beratheon i cannot remember

[02:16:29] and and the beratheons yes the the starks and of course the beratheon since reynice's mother

[02:16:35] was a beratheon right gosh yeah oh i i'm gonna be quiet i was gonna say something i think it's

[02:16:42] more book spoilers yes yes there's some there's some potentially spoil some potentially very

[02:16:47] spoilery stuff regarding the beratheon yes so get us up yes um so they figured so they sent no ravens

[02:16:55] to the starks or the beratheons or to the irie because the current ruler of the irie is lady

[02:17:00] jane erin and since she's uh a woman they assumed she'd also support renera and all of this

[02:17:07] goes on for seven days after viscera's dies and he they leave his body rotting in his chamber

[02:17:16] that whole time so that the stink begins to seep through the castle and rumors began to fly

[02:17:24] otto wanted to keep the secret longer but allicent says we know we can't we can't we got to do it

[02:17:30] now and agon says am i a king or no if i am king then crown me so they did and it's interesting to me that

[02:17:41] i'm sorry keep going no go ahead go ahead i was just going to say it's interesting that um

[02:17:48] um that they treat viscera's body with such disrespect such disrespect yeah and yeah and

[02:17:58] agreed yeah and so it's you know it's this weird power grab that's happening and they're letting the

[02:18:06] body of the king a king yeah yeah rot in the next room um to try and succeed here and i just um

[02:18:16] you and you know that you're only getting part of the story when you read this so it's like what

[02:18:23] what else what else i know what else is missing that's ryan mm-hmm so they chose dragon pit for

[02:18:30] the coronation because it had stone benches that could seat 80 000 people plus they thought it was a

[02:18:36] defensible site if traitors decided to disrupt the ceremony and just like in the show sir christin

[02:18:44] places the conqueror's crown on agon's head he doesn't wear viscera's crown he wears he chose to wear

[02:18:50] agon the conqueror's crown uh and thus christin coal earns the nickname the kingmaker

[02:18:57] mm-hmm but allison on that too i know don't like that i know him wearing agon's i know crown at all

[02:19:05] i know you were so i just hate his undeserving i know yeah and getting to carry black fire and

[02:19:13] and the cat's body yeah i know oh i hated seeing black fire in his hand that was terrible

[02:19:20] like you are not worthy do not worthy um and one thing and he's holding the prophecy in his hand

[02:19:26] and i know nobody has the prophecy doesn't know yeah he doesn't know that's right um one thing we

[02:19:33] did not see in the show that we i wish that we had was that allison then takes her own crown off

[02:19:39] of her own head and puts it on helena's head and kneels before her and says my queen

[02:19:45] um yeah yeah we should that would have been nice it would have been nice to get that i i guess though

[02:19:51] having rinera or sorry uh reynies um kind of interrupting there maybe i think they could

[02:19:57] she could have waited just a minute longer to burst and in order for us to get that i know yeah

[02:20:05] um so she should have done it a lot sooner when swords were falling and he was right there

[02:20:10] in the spot you know yeah um sources differ on how many people were there for the coronation

[02:20:19] one source says that there were more than a hundred thousand small folk jammed into the dragon pit

[02:20:24] but mushroom says the benches were half empty and i like the way that they've chosen to deal with

[02:20:29] that in the show is that the city watch the gold cloaks they just round people up and force

[02:20:34] them into the dragon pit so that there's an audience can you imagine being like the small

[02:20:41] folk and you're being herded into the dragon pit i know i know i don't feel good about this guys

[02:20:46] just doing laundry and yeah being forced to go to the dragon pit like why are we one of the extras

[02:20:52] walked in with a bucket on his shoulder like i don't know i didn't notice that i know yeah

[02:20:58] yeah so after the coronation agon flew sunfire his dragon three times around the city and then he

[02:21:05] landed inside the walls of the red keep and mounted the iron throne before a thousand cheering nobles

[02:21:12] that that's where this section ends in the book so here's the big big big differences that

[02:21:18] they've created um reynice was not in king's landing for any of this she was on drift mark

[02:21:25] so no beast beneath the boards you know book readers last week could not possibly have

[02:21:32] figured out what helena's prophecy referred to since that whole sequence did not happen in the books

[02:21:40] so reynice's dragon is called malice the red queen and her first writer was elissa daughter of

[02:21:48] jaheiris and alison and mother of viscera's she was viscera's and daemon's mother yes that's right

[02:21:57] and then um after uh at some point after lisa's death um malice was claimed by reynice

[02:22:06] um she was beautiful so beautiful so beautiful and now we know why we didn't see malice earlier

[02:22:12] because it's like tada here's malice it's the big dramatic she she made the dramatic entrance yeah

[02:22:20] absolutely amazing yeah so i did want to ask you to the small folk but yeah it was still amazing

[02:22:26] so i do want to ask you a question then about um about what this differences in the book

[02:22:32] because i was reading on fandom earlier today that this was uh from the book it says that

[02:22:37] malice is chained in the dragon pit during the coordination of agon the second hargarian

[02:22:42] she is eventually freed by reynice and rides her out of the dragon pit inadvertently killing a

[02:22:47] number of small folk during their escape so i mean if that's from the book then it yeah it's not

[02:22:56] happened right no that doesn't happen in the book at all that's not from the book

[02:23:02] but oh reynice wasn't there at all she was she was on drift mark i wonder why that's on fandom then

[02:23:08] i don't know okay because i had it written down in my notes to ask you about yeah no well they're

[02:23:15] they're describing what happened in the show not what happened in the book okay inadvertently

[02:23:21] that's hilarious yeah um okay yeah because i i read past so i started to read past the uh

[02:23:30] past viscerus's death in the book and i got so mad that i threw the book to the side

[02:23:35] now it was just like i can't read this understandable and i just haven't gone back to it i'm like

[02:23:40] i just can't so i'll i'll be doing some reading after next week and i'll just try and get through

[02:23:45] the book as best as possible i'm so mad though um so i think that these major changes that they've

[02:23:54] made really serve to elevate the underlying theme of the damage that patriarchy does yes and and we

[02:24:03] see what a better ruler reynice would have been than viscerus we really see it and she becomes the

[02:24:09] power player and the lynchpin and that's just awesome and that scene between her and allicent

[02:24:15] which absolutely does not exist in the book really names the critique of patriarchy explicitly

[02:24:22] yes it does it's so good allicent allicent says that they meaning women may guide men gently towards

[02:24:30] peace which is the classic behind every good man is a woman idea um and reynice uh calls out

[02:24:42] allicent's indoctrination in what she says back to allicent she says yet you toil in service

[02:24:49] to men your father your husband your son you desire not to be free but to make a window in

[02:24:57] your prison have you never imagined yourself on the iron throne man these writers i know

[02:25:06] they're so good for that not being in the book um what a great scene what what great dialogue

[02:25:14] from reynice yeah yeah man i just you know uh i i've i've said before i'm team black but i'm also

[02:25:24] team targaryen simply for the fact of all of the targaryen women that have been wronged throughout

[02:25:31] the entire history of westeros and queen reynice being right there or what so yeah i just said

[02:25:36] queen reynice queen reynice long live queen reynice first of her name

[02:25:44] the queen who never was that's right and the other thing that that they've changed that i think is

[02:25:49] really interesting is that they've in the show they've made the small council plan the coup

[02:25:55] behind allicent's back whereas she's you know totally in favor of it and an architect of

[02:26:01] it in the book so that makes us more able to see her as less of a villain and more of both a victim

[02:26:08] and a tool of the patriarchy of the patriarchs and i don't know if i'm super happy with with that

[02:26:16] change honestly i i feel like they're for some reason wanting to make her more sympathetic

[02:26:22] and maybe it's just because we don't know all of that from the book

[02:26:26] you know that we're getting this additional context but i don't know

[02:26:30] um maybe it's just because i really don't want to like allicent i know i know but

[02:26:34] but there is i feel like some contradiction even just in the show yeah allicent and how

[02:26:40] they're kind of you know there is how it's kind of back and forth and i'll talk about it during

[02:26:45] the main part of the podcast but um you know i i don't hate it or anything i i do get where

[02:26:50] she's more sympathetic but i just i'm not sure um that i like it yeah maybe it's just

[02:26:57] because i i i because i i guess because i know her from the book so much

[02:27:01] you know i think that is it i think if you are a peer show watcher you you're able to see her

[02:27:07] differently but she's such a different character between the book and the show it's hard not to

[02:27:12] come in with the prejudice from the book it is so in the book by the way there is absolutely no

[02:27:19] kinky foot fetish sexual relationship between larryson ellison that came out of nowhere

[02:27:25] and i was like what let's do i was like i don't remember that they had absolutely no sexual

[02:27:32] relationship or any sexual tension reported of any kind and i was interested that in the show

[02:27:38] allicent uses her sexuality with both larrys and ser christin because she tiptoes up to him and says

[02:27:46] you know with everything you feel for me pause as your queen book allicent does nothing

[02:27:54] like that yeah um there's no murder plot against rinera they don't want they they don't talk about

[02:28:05] sending the king's guard to kill her and daemon and the children they want her to bend the knee

[02:28:10] and they want to take her children as hostages to serve as court against her good behavior

[02:28:16] they don't want to be kin slayers and they don't want to start a war they just want to

[02:28:24] you know they want her to go away quietly the way reyni stood

[02:28:33] and uh and there is no fight between agon and aamond in the book there's no expressed

[02:28:40] desire on aamons part to be king they've really changed aamon in that way as well

[02:28:45] in the show aamon says he's next in line but that's not right agon son jaharis is is

[02:28:52] next in line because that's the way primogeniture works once agon has an air then that displaces

[02:28:59] aamond the same way that viscera is having a son agon um further displaced daemon uh because

[02:29:08] uh a son comes before a brother yeah i was confused by that line

[02:29:14] yeah i think he's just

[02:29:21] he may he may be saying that because he's old enough to have the the power to take it and you

[02:29:26] know um the baby jaharis would have to have a regent for a long time but it's it's technically

[02:29:32] not correct he's not next in line right um and then one last thing um my sariah is in king's

[02:29:40] landing at this time in in the book but she's she was not involved in any way in the vents

[02:29:46] that led up to agon's coronation and i think they're just trying to keep her on our radar and giving

[02:29:52] her a part so that she because they had already cast her for the beginning of season one so they

[02:29:57] had to use her in a few more episodes to keep her employed um but she will come back and be

[02:30:03] very important later right yeah we do still want to keep her on her radar because she

[02:30:09] plays a part but yeah yeah i think they were just trying to keep her relevant like you said

[02:30:14] like don't forget about her um so um those are my observations for the spoiler free section

[02:30:25] good stuff we also have um uh the lord commander did not resign from office

[02:30:33] during the council meeting no because the lord commander was ser christin at that point oh that's

[02:30:38] okay yeah i think this will um sir westerling uh resigning will then free up that position now for

[02:30:48] christian call they're just gonna that's right yeah well i think i'm lord commander already

[02:30:52] yeah allison says to auto you will name ser christin lord commander

[02:30:57] so yeah and and that's why he was crowning agon in the dragon pit it was because he

[02:31:02] had been made lord commander at that point yeah every time he kills someone in rage

[02:31:07] he gets a job promotion like i know i'm so just gonna suffer some consequences i mean i know when

[02:31:14] but i'm just like it's so infuriating to see it over and over again and i know i wish she had

[02:31:20] consequences like already some time ago yeah we have to wait it's like waiting for ramsey

[02:31:29] that's right forever yeah oh that was great um well i don't i don't have

[02:31:37] anything to add i've i've i've contributed um all of my thoughts and just agreements

[02:31:43] and everything that you said so i think if if we're good then we can move on okay heavy book

[02:31:49] spoilers do christian you want to did you talk about um agon's crown no you know oh my gosh

[02:31:59] if i can if i can have a little bit of a quibble here um can i quibble so i said because

[02:32:04] i'm there with you i think i'm not i'm not a book purist but it would be so easy to stay faithful to

[02:32:12] the book in the design of the crowns so agon the conqueror's crown is described as a simple

[02:32:18] circlet of valyrian steel set with big square cut rubies and the crown that they put on

[02:32:25] agon the second has one little round ruby in the front and it's not anything like that

[02:32:32] it looked like somebody hammered it out real quick i know or nation i know i mean maybe they were

[02:32:38] trying to give it like an old rustic look because it was agon the conquerors maybe but that's definitely

[02:32:44] not what i pictured i know every piece of artwork on all the calendars and everything that you see

[02:32:50] that depicts agon in is the conqueror in his crown always has those square cut rubies that's a

[02:32:56] signature thing they could and it would have been so easy to do it would have well look at all the

[02:33:01] why they didn't look at all the rubies they put in daemon's armor but they can throw some extra rubies

[02:33:08] and the other the other crown that's wrong is um viscerae's crown because viscerae's war king

[02:33:14] jahari's crown um and that is a simple band of yellow gold set with seven gemstones of

[02:33:22] different colors for the seven um and they made that crown with no gems in it at all so i don't

[02:33:31] know why they couldn't have just followed those descriptions there's no purpose to doing it the

[02:33:36] way they did it my other quibble though has to be about the sword black fire um so i didn't notice

[02:33:44] this in the show but i watched the house that the dragons built making of documentary

[02:33:51] and they pointed out the design the way it's designed and what they did is to incorporate

[02:33:57] elements of the worship of the seven into the sword black fire um which makes zero sense because

[02:34:05] agon had that sword before he conquered westeros and the targaryens did not practice the face

[02:34:13] of the seven before conquering westeros and it's it's a very different design the show design

[02:34:22] than the authorized book version that's being made by um jalloc blades which produces the

[02:34:30] the replica swords and that version has dragons on the cross piece which is i think very appropriate

[02:34:37] but the there's a seven there's a seven pointed star in the hilt of this black fire

[02:34:44] and then the piece that um comes down onto the blade a little bit below the cross guard is in

[02:34:51] seven sections to reference the worship of the seven i'm still waiting on dark sister but i'm

[02:34:58] waiting on dark sister i keep checking yeah they haven't they have not made one yet they're

[02:35:04] gonna take all my money still waiting i think they said in the next year or so they should

[02:35:08] have dark sister but anyway yeah i don't know i mean this is such a great opportunity to really

[02:35:15] make use of the design that that are in the histories right you know they're describing

[02:35:22] the the crown or the the swords through history i really i mean again it's it's fine that

[02:35:29] they make some changes with you know um i think other things but man you those are just things

[02:35:35] that i'm kind of a stickler for so i agree i was i was disappointed in in agon the conqueror's crown

[02:35:41] i was like come on yeah no it just wasn't agon's crown yeah i know i mean obviously they're not

[02:35:48] real we know they're not putting real rubies in there you don't have to you know it's not like

[02:35:52] you gotta forge it from real valerian steel you know come on y'all yeah put forth some effort

[02:35:59] so well i have a qualbel about that too but oh well what are we gonna do keep watching

[02:36:10] all right we are gonna go into our big spoilers now so

[02:36:15] get off if you don't want to listen to anything past this episode all right

[02:36:19] warning warning warning here be dragons three two one go okay any more warning be dragon if you're

[02:36:29] if you're still here then it's all on you it's all on you

[02:36:35] um so the book is a little bit weird here because it's almost like it starts over again

[02:36:40] and that's because the chapter that we just started on is the beginning of the princess

[02:36:46] and the queen the novella version that was published separately in the anthology dangerous women

[02:36:54] so here's the opening sentence of of the chapter the dance of the dragons is the flowery name bestowed

[02:37:02] upon the savage internasian struggle for the iron throne of westeros fought between two rival

[02:37:09] branches of house targaryen during the years 129 to 131 ac to characterize the dark turbulent

[02:37:18] bloody doings as a dance strikes us as grotesquely inappropriate no doubt the phrase originated

[02:37:25] with some singer the dying of the dragons would be altogether more fitting but tradition time and

[02:37:33] grand maester munken have burned the more poetic usage into the pages of history and so we must dance

[02:37:40] along with the rest that's beautiful it is it is beautiful but it's that the dying of the

[02:37:49] dragons which pretty much spells out what's going to happen the the metaphorical dragons the

[02:37:55] Targaryens who are often referred to as dragons and the dragons that are actually dragons there

[02:37:59] is going to be a lot of dying it's interesting too that george rr martin has said that it will take

[02:38:05] four full seasons for us to do the dance of the dragons even though it was only two years long

[02:38:13] i know that's crazy there's a lot of stuff that happens no i'm really excited about it it's just

[02:38:19] crazy i mean there's some battle scenes where you could devote the whole episode just to a

[02:38:23] battle scene and then there's a lot of political maneuvering and yeah so i'm excited here are some

[02:38:30] things that i think that that they did that i think really work well for tv as opposed to the book

[02:38:37] so having eric and arach both still in king's land rather than having eric you know on dragonstone

[02:38:44] helps to set up the fight that's going to happen between them later because

[02:38:49] the audience has to have some time with them we have to care about them in order for that fight

[02:38:55] to be as meaningful as it's supposed to be so i think having this preliminary little conflict

[02:39:03] between them and we see the how they're choosing their sides and just seeing them together because

[02:39:10] they look so identical but did you did you know do you know the the trick for telling them

[02:39:14] apart their cloaks erics erics mustache goes down oh and arach with an a his mustache curls up

[02:39:26] okay i was i didn't discover you are when you're sinister or on that's right your side

[02:39:31] exactly have the curly mustache that's right i didn't discover that independently i i uh

[02:39:37] i got that from somewhere else so interesting you know that's that's very cool that um

[02:39:43] they're building that relationship between eric and arach because i believe that that is one of the

[02:39:51] like horrible missteps that game of thrones did with sandor and greg or clagaine yes that we didn't

[02:39:58] really i i mean i don't know about you but that whole big build up to the fight you know

[02:40:02] i mean clagaine bowl it yeah it it just fell a little flat and oh i was totally flat yeah yeah

[02:40:10] so i'm just glad that they're building up they're learning from their mistakes yeah um

[02:40:17] so allison knows that ranira is about to give birth on dragonstone and she wants to keep her

[02:40:23] ignorant of risseres's death as long as possible so the greens have more time to maneuver

[02:40:28] and she is reported by mushroom to have said allison says of ranira may haps the horror

[02:40:36] will die in childbirth so yeah allison in the book i mean people who non-book readers who are team green

[02:40:43] they don't know how just awful allison is in the book and that when we were talking earlier about

[02:40:50] how hard it is for us to see allison as a sympathetic character that's one of the things that makes

[02:40:57] that the case yeah because there's not i don't remember anything in the book that gives her any

[02:41:04] redeeming qualities oh she has no redeeming qualities in the book at all so yeah but i mean

[02:41:09] but that's a patriarchal stereotype in and of itself that is true that's a really good point

[02:41:14] that's why i she's the evil stepmother yeah it's she's just wicked yeah the wicked stepmother with

[02:41:19] the stepdaughter and and that whole trope and yeah i am trying to because i do i do watch the show

[02:41:26] and i look at allison and i do see good qualities i do i still don't love her and i still don't

[02:41:32] i am definitely not leaning towards team green by any means but i i see it way more than yeah the

[02:41:38] book portrayed so i'm trying to but it is definitely hard like you were saying earlier to kind of yeah

[02:41:42] for me anyway personally speaking to let go of some that prejudice because man i really hated on her

[02:41:48] whatever i was reading the books oh i know it's very easy to hate her at the books yeah it really is

[02:41:55] um so eric shows aric a bastard child of agons at the at the fighting pit and at first

[02:42:03] really disturbed me oh at first i thought that's gayman pale hair that's what i thought

[02:42:09] but i i i don't know um i looked in i looked on imdb to see how that child actor was credited

[02:42:16] and i'm i'm not sure because everybody looks so different without the wigs right yeah but the

[02:42:23] the child who most looked like it was him was credited as john j on like john snow only he'd be

[02:42:30] john waters because bastards in kingland's king's landing their name is water waters um but even

[02:42:37] whether it that child is gayman pale hair or not um it's establishing the fact that agon has

[02:42:44] bastards in king's king's landing so that's important yes it is it's interesting um so here's where they

[02:42:54] have divided the timeline because things things have are already happening on king's landing

[02:43:01] raniera is right now in labor in king's landing and evidently she's not in the show because

[02:43:08] the trailer seems to show her still pregnant and not in labor um but she's she's working on

[02:43:16] having that baby right about now and then also in the in the period while visceris is still

[02:43:25] rotting in his chamber before uh it's known outside of the conspirators that visceris

[02:43:32] is dead that's when allicent sends amond to storms end so he's already left for storms end

[02:43:39] before agon is crowned um and um he is sent with the mission to woo and wed one of lord boros baratheon's

[02:43:51] four daughters in order to deliver the storm storm lands support to agon so he has flown vegar

[02:43:59] to storms end and he's there now um the other thing that i think has happened but we didn't see it

[02:44:10] is that uh one of the king's guard and in the book it's sir stefan darklyn has slipped away

[02:44:17] the night before the coronation with visceris is crown because when agon decided he wanted to

[02:44:23] work agon the conqueror's crown um allicent ordered visceris's crown locked away but the

[02:44:30] steward who was entrusted with locking the crown away he took it instead and um

[02:44:38] he and stefan darklyn getting a boat and take it to dragonstone to renera i think in the show

[02:44:46] that that herald westerling may do that instead of stefan darklyn i would love that

[02:44:53] i would enjoy that very much yeah yeah um so reynice and mayleys busting up the dragon pit

[02:45:03] is big for shadowing for what happens at the dragon pit later i know i know

[02:45:11] yeah i can't think about it and then finally they still didn't tell us that coreleys is not dead

[02:45:21] i know and it's like we still don't know yeah is that going to be yeah no he's definitely he's

[02:45:28] got to be alive he can't be dead right i know he's not he plays a too big a role going for that

[02:45:31] i'm wondering if that well right because i know he has a lot more story to tell so

[02:45:35] yeah i'm just wondering if there's if he's just going to be like around the table next week

[02:45:40] like i know i'm fine oh here i am just a flesh wound i'm the sexy sexy scar on my neck

[02:45:46] and i'm fine it just adds to the scar i forgot to tell you i'm fine i'm planning my next war

[02:45:53] yeah well he is that's exactly what he's doing because he becomes reyniris hand

[02:46:01] in the future i just love that that's a good hand to have he that's yeah that's who

[02:46:06] should have been viscerus's hand yeah i mean there's so many better choices than auto

[02:46:13] better choices than auto hi yeah i actually think that you know one of the

[02:46:20] stray dogs in king's landing might have made a better hand than our tower

[02:46:26] well hell i mean linel strong should have been the hand all that time i mean holy crap i know he

[02:46:33] he did for a short period of time and look how well that went but uh yeah he should have been

[02:46:39] he was awesome he was awesome so

[02:46:47] this episode just it just took me on a wild ride and at first rima as you were saying

[02:46:52] you know there were some things that you weren't sure you liked or not same for me

[02:46:58] but then when i walked away from the episode and thought about it for a while i liked it

[02:47:02] more and more and on my second watch i thought yeah this is genius and i can't wait for next

[02:47:08] weeks episode and how they are going to converge and diverge and i know rima you said you thought

[02:47:14] there was a spoiler and i'm absolutely sure that that is that i know exactly what it is and this

[02:47:20] is going to happen because the trailer for next week's episode pretty much gives it away it's

[02:47:24] it's sure if you know it gives it away to book readers yes and i think that's absolutely

[02:47:32] the right place to see to end season one and then we'll get a sun for a sun at the beginning of season

[02:47:39] two i agree um it's going to be a really hard wait yeah it is every time i keep hearing between seasons

[02:47:48] yeah yeah every time i keep hearing some and it's not till 2024 i just 2024 i just want to cry

[02:47:55] i know maybe we can do two or three rewatch podcasts in the year between yeah i know i'm going to be doing

[02:48:03] a lot more reading to get caught up i did a lot of reading and tried to prepare as much as possible

[02:48:09] to be as well informed and and i wanted to take that path but i have so much more to read on so

[02:48:15] i'm excited to continue my journey um uh for that until it comes back and and yeah we'll just

[02:48:23] have to do another rewatch we'll do a spoiler cast i don't know we'll fill our time we'll do character

[02:48:31] we'll do character episodes yeah yeah yeah yeah um did all right did you notice the and it was hard

[02:48:40] hard um i think to to see but they did the sigils uh where they were doing the coronation i don't

[02:48:48] know what you called the podium and they had this the targaryen sigil they already had it with

[02:48:52] the gold dragon on the black uh tapestry wow i did not notice that yeah so they're good catch

[02:48:59] the red um well the the main ones like when they were blowing the horns and the ones outside were

[02:49:06] still the the typical red of house targaryen where they had the the red dragon um on the black

[02:49:12] but agon's sigil is the gold in honor of his golden dragon sunfire who we didn't get to see this

[02:49:19] episode but that's okay because we got melly's up close in personal very up close and personal

[02:49:24] so that was okay very up close um so i'm that was the best entrance of any dragon yeah it sure was

[02:49:30] jeez louise i just so far i cried i did i can't help it you put a dragon on screen i'm gonna cry

[02:49:36] my daughter judged me completely for that um but i don't care just i'm used to it

[02:49:44] um there's a beast beneath the boards yes there is you know i think that that

[02:49:52] you can take it that way and i think i do but i i still think they mean blood and cheese just

[02:49:56] a little bit be specifically on the word boards boards i know but yeah you know i don't know i

[02:50:04] feel like you can definitely see it for this uh that scene there with reynies and and melly's

[02:50:11] coming up through the floor there at the dragon pit but i still do wonder just based off that word

[02:50:16] boards if they mean blood and cheese still i don't know i think there's a lot more to come from

[02:50:22] still good still a lot more to come from helena yeah oh i also freeze freeze framed and tried to

[02:50:29] see whether baby jaharis has six fingers um and you see his left hand with his fingers all

[02:50:36] spread out and it looked to me that there's only five but you don't get a really good

[02:50:40] shot of his right hand so he could have six on that hand i don't know interesting yeah i forgot to look

[02:50:48] they they didn't show them for very long um gosh that's good stuff oh uh when helena

[02:50:59] she kind of makes another little prophecy she says if one possesses a thing the other will

[02:51:04] take it away yeah and i got her kids are playing with the the twins are on the floor playing with

[02:51:11] their toys but i i wonder if that also means knowing that her husband and brother agon who

[02:51:19] will take the iron throne later in the dance reynier will come to take it

[02:51:24] mm-hmm that's what yeah that's what i thought

[02:51:27] and so agon was it was in the process of being taken from reynier that's right yes

[02:51:35] yes that's right and and agon and reynier a surfer yes um agon and reynier are

[02:51:45] half brother and sister and uh helena was looking at her twins who are brother and sister so

[02:51:51] so there's a sibling relationship in that line and i think it totally refers to agon and reynier

[02:52:02] so good take it take it back take it back again power power struggles

[02:52:08] darn iron throne and the small meanwhile the small folk suffer the small folks suffer that's right

[02:52:15] it's true always yeah that's the that's the bummer of all of it all these small folks that

[02:52:21] were herded into the dragon pit and then some of them died because of got smashed by a dragon

[02:52:26] right exactly and they're like i wasn't supposed to be here i didn't ask to be here that's right yeah

[02:52:35] well awesome does anybody else have anything else that they want to add for

[02:52:39] book talk for big book talk i don't know not this week more to come

[02:52:45] well this was a great conversation i can't wait for next week i have a feeling that we're gonna

[02:52:50] have a lot to say next week yeah i think so i think so too i can't wait to see how they

[02:52:56] structure that last episode it should be interesting well um we are going oh go ahead

[02:53:05] oh i was just gonna say ryan i did see ryan condol interviewed and he said there's one more

[02:53:10] childbirth in season one and it's it's ranira and the child that she's currently pregnant with yeah

[02:53:24] can't wait well i'll be crying yep yeah more tears to come lots and just tell you right now

[02:53:32] that will be a crying episode i'll just get my tissues get my bottle of wine it'll be fine

[02:53:40] well all right you two i'm gonna go unchain my dragon and fly off oh yay safe travel is ready

[02:53:48] yes we will see you next week all right bye all right thank you so bye

[02:53:56] okay so next week on house of the dragon well next week we will be covering the season finale

[02:54:06] season one episode 10 of house of the dragon the black queen oh i can't wait i cannot wait um

[02:54:16] i i'm excited to watch but i'm also a little sad knowing that we're at the finale already and

[02:54:21] we have to wait until 2024 so it's kind of that really bitter sweep for me anyway uh

[02:54:27] that yes we get this finally get to the finale but then sad that then it's gonna be over and

[02:54:33] and long wait and we don't get to talk to each other once a week for a while but

[02:54:42] well we'll keep in touch other ways we're i feel like i'm still probably gonna be talking about

[02:54:47] this show in one way or another yeah yeah definitely and if not we're we always have

[02:54:54] tons of things to talk about anyway it's our own personal um rima and christin show

[02:55:00] it is wonderful it's crazy here and we love it but we're we're about to get our own theme music i

[02:55:07] can't wait uh if you want to leave feedback you can always leave feedback for us at our

[02:55:13] pot podcasting a fan page we post weekly feedback threads or you can leave feedback by email at

[02:55:18] dragging castica at gmail.com i love the feedback keep it coming guys um we we appreciate all

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[02:56:58] until next time i'm rima and i'm christin dracarys