3: "The Rogue Prince (S1E2)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, I'm Kristen. I'm Reema. And I'm Wendy. And this is Dragon Cast, a podcast dedicated to the House of the Dragon. This week we are covering season one, episode two, The Rogue Prince.

[00:00:32] And we just want to welcome Wendy. For those of you who do not know her, then you don't listen to podcasts because Wendy's everywhere.

[00:00:43] Wendy is the host of the Handmaid's Tale podcast on House Podcastica. She is also one of the co-hosts of Yellow Jackets, Wheel of Time, and has been a long time frequent guest for our rewatch of The Game of Thrones and season eight on House Podcastica. So welcome Wendy!

[00:01:06] Thank you. Just transported back to 2019. This is awesome. Yeah, I know. It's like putting on a comfortable pair of jeans.

[00:01:14] Yeah, this was exciting. I thought, we've got the gang all together. We're getting all the folks back from, you know, the old podcast when we were on Game of Thrones. So I was super excited to have you on this week, Wendy. And to podcast with you again.

[00:01:29] Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. And I really did not think that we would have another show in the world of Game of Thrones so soon, to be honest.

[00:01:42] I mean, I know it doesn't feel like it soon, but I figured it would be years in the making, you know, multiple years. It's only been three years. Yeah.

[00:01:51] It was a very ballsy move by HBO to do this. They spent over $100 million in marketing for this show I read. Wow. And I think they were very scared to do this. So it's paid off. Yeah, it's doing really well. Yeah, I'm very, very excited about that.

[00:02:11] So just a brief synopsis of the episode from HBO. We have Raniara over steps at the small council. The series is urged to secure the succession through marriage. Damon announces his intentions. It all sounds very nefarious. It is. So let's talk about it.

[00:02:33] Before we get into our highlights, what did you guys think of the episode? Wendy, how about you? Yeah, Wendy go first.

[00:02:44] I really liked it. You can see they're expanding on some of the relationships in the show. I feel like I have more questions than answers, but that's exactly the way it should be on episode two. And I'm totally mesmerized by some of the characters.

[00:03:02] I think it does feel a little bit different because they are time jumping so quickly. There's six months between episode one and episode two, and then it looks like there's like another year time jump for the next episode.

[00:03:17] So I would say I don't like it, but it didn't. It was fine for this episode, but it worries me a little bit because I'm really getting attached to these characters and I want to spend more time with them before they jump. Yeah.

[00:03:37] So we'll get to it in book talk, but I don't know if you are going to listen to book talk, Wendy, just because I know that you haven't read the books, correct?

[00:03:44] I don't think I'm going to. I mean, I may at some point because I certainly did with the other podcast, but for now I'm going to try to stay innocent.

[00:03:55] Good. Well, this isn't a spoiler or anything like that. It's just that Renny mentioned that I don't know if this will help you, but what was covered in this week's episode was five pages of the book, of the thousand page book.

[00:04:09] I think I have read that somewhere and I'm really glad they gave us that. It was a gift and we needed it. I mean, I'm already totally into most of these characters.

[00:04:22] Oh, good. Yeah. So I think that while it seems fast, it's 200 years of history, so I think we should be okay. How about you, Reema? What did you think?

[00:04:36] I also really liked the episode. I think that it definitely gets us set up for what's coming next. And, you know, it was, for me, a little bit of what made Game of Thrones so great.

[00:04:55] Some of the really great episodes from that show was the political intrigue. And that's what we got a lot of in this episode. And I love seeing all of, you know, manipulations and everyone's kind of conspiratorial, you know, conspiring to do this and someone's over here talking about doing this and everyone has, you know, their skin in the game and trying to, you know, manipulate to get someone to go their way.

[00:05:25] So I love that. I think it's what made Game of Thrones really great. There was a lot of things about the show that made it great, but you know, I think that was some of the better episodes. So I think they kind of carried that over here as well.

[00:05:37] So a lot of great things, I think, to like and to talk about for me. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah, I really enjoyed this episode. It's funny because I've said this story a few times now, but as soon as it was over on Sunday night.

[00:05:55] Dave, my husband just turned it off and he said, I really want to hate this show and I can't like.

[00:06:04] Like we went into this really very begrudgingly and I mean, it's like it's appointment television. We're watching it live. We're, you know, we're sitting down and just it's nine o'clock kids go to bed. It is time.

[00:06:19] It's time for some House of the Dragons. So absolutely, you know, to go from the opinion that we had before to being as into it as we are now.

[00:06:28] That says a lot about the show and how it's going. So I'm very, very excited about this episode and all the other. I wish it was. I wish that episode three was out now, which I heard Xfinity accidentally released both episodes two and three on Sunday.

[00:06:45] So I'd like to know who has that episode and please send it to me. Thank you. I heard that. I did. I read that online, too. Like, hey, I think Xfinity dropped episode three. Should I go ahead and watch it? Everybody's like, yes. Yes. Yes. Watch it.

[00:07:03] Wow. I don't know. Probably out there then. Maybe. I don't know if they caught that mistake. I don't know if they were like, oh, whoops, you know, and it was only available for a short window of time.

[00:07:13] I didn't do any follow up on that, but I'm sure there were some people jumping all over it. I'd at least like to know the title, you know, they're so stingy with the titles. What is that?

[00:07:26] Even well, I think I might have next week's. I did put it in the agenda because I think I have it, but I'm going to say it's tentative.

[00:07:35] But I noticed that whenever I got on, because I watch it on HBO Max and so getting on the app, you know, it's Sunday night. It was not early. It was at time. It still said just episode two. And I was like one point two. Yeah.

[00:07:51] Right. We're literally getting ready to watch it. It is available. You still can't even post it. And my daughter pointed out she goes, they did that with the pilot or with the premiere too.

[00:08:00] They didn't they didn't put it on there until after. And I'm like, they're really just burning me up with that. It's irritating. I don't know if they're trying to avoid something.

[00:08:10] I don't know. But I'm like, if it's one thing not to do it beforehand, but at least the night of to confirm right. Right. But then you think about all the leaks from season eight. All the leaks from season eight. Yeah. Pretty bad.

[00:08:25] It was I mean, it was links that we went to to try to keep everything tight and secure with the scripts and paparazzi shots and people taking pictures on set, things like that. Yeah, they they probably learned a lot from that and are probably carrying through here.

[00:08:46] Yeah. No coffee cups yet. Not one Starbucks cup. I feel really, really proud of them. And if there is they'll catch it in post, I'm sure and try to blur that. Well, I read today.

[00:09:06] I also read today that they are they're still finishing up production on the later episodes. Editing. They've been editing and doing post production on the episodes since February and they are still finishing up the episode. So it's they are taking their sweet, sweet, sweet time. Wow.

[00:09:27] I mean, I assume just like with the dragons alone, the CGI work, you know, and everything that goes into it all the editing and you know, that's making it such a wonderful production and visually, you know, beautiful, you know, and sound and just all the things.

[00:09:47] But yeah, it doesn't surprise me. I heard like with Stranger Things, you know, we covered that show and they were literally working on that finale up until it was released. So it was barely ready. That finale of Stranger That was my favorite episode of the whole season.

[00:10:08] Yeah, it was great. So I thought that was one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen. Yeah, it was something special. But yeah, after hearing because I'm like, are you kidding me? Like can we cut it any closer?

[00:10:22] So you know, after hearing that, it doesn't really surprise me that they're that they're still doing some work, probably some finishing touches. And I can appreciate that. They want to make it great, right? I'll take it. For sure. The precision of these episodes has been really amazing.

[00:10:40] The details, I mean, just and I had seen some back screen interviews and things like that. And they were saying that that's what George R. R. Martin wanted. He said he wanted all of the costumes and the shields and just everything.

[00:11:01] He was like, yeah, I want all more of that. And I think it pays off. I feel like I could watch these episodes five times and still notice new things because they're so rich. Yes. Absolutely. Okay, so let's get into the meat of the episode.

[00:11:25] So we're going to do sisters three of us. We're going to do our top three instead of our top five like we usually do if it's just me and Rima for those of you who don't know the format.

[00:11:35] So as our guest, Wendy, I would love for you to take it away. Okay, great. My first point was about how the show displays all the women and how they are being used as pawns.

[00:11:53] These are all young, beautiful, bright, smart, amazing women that I've already become very attached to. We see Ranae. Am I saying that right? You are. Yeah, it's Ranae. Ranae. She's she's the air now.

[00:12:13] She's been propped up as the air and everybody tells her at every turn that she's the air and she needs to act like the air. But then she's discounted at every turn. She's, you know, her decisions are second guest.

[00:12:28] She's cut off when she has something to say when she has ideas, she's cut off and she's escorted out of the small council meeting for suggesting that the dragon riders make a show of force against the crab feeder.

[00:12:44] She's expected to act as an air while at the same time admonished for acting strong. And then all around her, everyone is pushing, pushing, pushing for the king to produce a male air to replace her. I can't imagine how that feels.

[00:13:01] That's a lot of twisting and turning for a girl of 15. And she's so calm about it, too. You know, like she's just so she seems so focused, like from just the difference in her demeanor from last week to this week.

[00:13:17] It's very interesting to me how she just has now kind of taken on this role of air and she's taken it pretty seriously. Yes.

[00:13:26] And then at the same time, everybody is talking about her being knocked off and it's I can't imagine what that feels like for such a young person to be grasping for legitimacy and really having to fight 10 times as hard than you would have had there been a baby brother in the picture.

[00:13:48] Yeah. And you know what's also interesting is that she, she really just wants kind of the attention and love of her father, not as a daughter, not as the air, but as her daughter.

[00:14:02] And it was interesting to me when she went into his room after coming back from Dragonstone and he's like, you're my only air. Why did you could have been killed? That would have been the end of us. And it's like, or your daughter could have been killed.

[00:14:17] Like it was just those those little things right there. I can see how that could be heartbreaking for for a character like Raniera. Yeah. Then we have Allison who is used as a pawn between her father and the king, the Saras.

[00:14:34] And she's at risk of losing her closest friendship with Raniera due to the decisions of the men around her and she's been put in this really difficult situation of basically being told to win the king's affections for her father's own ambitions. Then we have Lena, 12 years old.

[00:15:02] Can I ask you a question? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:15:04] I'm so sorry. What do you think about Alice then up until the announcement? Do you think that she knew what her father was doing that that do you think that she knew that she was supposed to be courting him or do you think that she was just in there to be just a friend?

[00:15:22] She certainly faced a supporter. I think she knew from the minute he said go to his room. Okay.

[00:15:33] I agree. I think she understood. I don't know if she knew what the path exactly was going to be, but I think she knew she was being used by her father and it was for some end or whatever that her her father wanted her there because she just looked when he told her what to do.

[00:15:49] I think she was like, I'm not comfortable with that. I don't want to do it. It wasn't like it was something she seemed to find joy in or at least in the beginning when she was being told that it looked like that she did seem to develop some sort of camaraderie there with the

[00:16:08] Sarah's. By the time we see him in this six months later, but it seemed to me like she didn't really want to be a part of it.

[00:16:16] I would think all her life she's probably been raised up to make a good match and that's the best match there is. She probably feels this incredible amount of pressure to win that game and she did.

[00:16:37] Then we have Lena who's 12 years old and put in front of the king for the taking. You can tell when she talks to the king that she's simply parodying what her parents have likely told her to say a hundred times

[00:16:55] and has to have that conversation with her mother and then with Viserys about when I'll have to have sex with him at what age. Again, just reiterating how women are treated in this world.

[00:17:15] Finally, my last example was Miseria who knows that Damon is playing games with her life. He's the king's brother. He has a dragon. He puts her out there as saying that they're going to get married and that she's pregnant, which is all big fat lie.

[00:17:33] You can tell she doesn't know anything until that confrontation between all of them. He's put her life at risk just to play a game with his brother, just to poke him.

[00:17:49] I also thought we see these four women in very vulnerable situations being tossed around like chess pieces in this world. Yeah, they're very dismissed. Yes. It's really difficult to watch because they all have these really strong personalities, especially Reneera.

[00:18:22] People talking over her and sending her out to go, I'm sure we can find something for the princess to do. Shut up, Otto. I totally agree with you about the women as pawns. That seems to be an opening theme of this show. I'm hoping it's going to shift.

[00:18:45] Smash the patriarchy, as it were. How about you, Rima? Well, I wanted to talk about the opening since we're starting here at the start of the show. Let's talk about this at the start of the podcast. Let's talk about the start of the show.

[00:19:04] We didn't get this in the first episode and I was really curious. I think we might have mentioned it a little bit last week that are we going to get any kind of theme or we're going to get this dramatic opening?

[00:19:16] That was a big part of Game of Thrones, getting to see the whole map of Westeros and all the houses. That was important. The theme song, oh my God. What was better than on a Sunday night than that theme song starting? Nothing. It was just fantastic.

[00:19:39] That was, I think, really thrilling. Before I go all the way into my point, I'm curious on Yall's opinions on the use of the same theme song.

[00:19:50] Do you wish there had been something more unique to the show or the Targaryens or are you OK that they repurposed and reused the Game of Thrones theme? Totally fine with it. I don't see how you improve upon that theme song.

[00:20:09] So if it ain't broke, why fix it? I was surprised. At first my knee-jerk reaction was why would they use the same one but at the same time I think if they had a different one we'd be sitting here talking about how we didn't like it as much.

[00:20:26] And at the end of the first episode when they played the theme music I was so jazzed for that and it fits so well and it was awesome. But I don't know, like I feel mixed about it but it is such an amazing song.

[00:20:47] And I mean, I do think part of what I've seen in these first two episodes are them trying to say yes it's a different show but yes it is Game of Thrones. It is the same world. We're in Westeros. Yeah we are in Westeros. Yeah and I agree.

[00:21:10] I think I'm still just a little bit mixed. I feel like I'm falling more on the side of I'm fine with it. I was really excited to think, oh wow are we going to get a new theme?

[00:21:22] I mean, I think the theme something and I don't know what Targaryen music is but I was just thinking will there be like something Targaryen centric that kind of fits a style of Ovelieria or something to kind of honor where the Targaryens came from.

[00:21:41] But as soon as it started playing that went out the window because again just the excitement and then nostalgia I think. And I think that was probably on purpose honestly.

[00:21:51] I mean, I feel House of the Dragon yes there are a lot of similar themes but it is a different show in my opinion but I do think that they're trying to help bring in all of the fans of Game of Thrones and not just like the book readers.

[00:22:07] They want the show watchers too and they want to bridge these two together. They want to keep people, you know they want to kind of tap into that nostalgia I think that watch our show it's got a cool Game of Thrones thing going.

[00:22:22] Remember the good old days so I think it's kind of on purpose. Good old days. Yeah.

[00:22:28] Yeah I can definitely imagine and I know that they're trying to make it more like the same way they were playing them for that, it seems like I've definitely seen some fans servicing I guess you would call it with some of.

[00:22:41] Like they purposefully say some of the house names, you know like he I was knighted by Duzza Don D'Darien you know yeah yeah you can see. all of those old houses and those old families are there. And that's kind of nice. It's a nice connecting piece, you know?

[00:23:06] Yeah. Like, like last week when we saw, you know, I record stark. I was like, yeah, you will. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was I think it was a nice touch and I enjoyed it. But in addition to the theme song that we all know and love,

[00:23:25] I think so many. I mean, the response I saw most folks, I think it leaned more towards people were loving it and OK with it. Others were like, really, you couldn't have come up with something else. And that's OK. But. I thought what also was interesting

[00:23:42] that along with the theme song instead of getting like a map of Westeros, we got something a little different. And it definitely took some time to kind of figure out what that was. And I don't take credit for figuring it out all on my own,

[00:23:55] although I had a I felt like I knew what I was watching. But to try to like piece together everything took some time. But what they were showing was the Targaryen family tree in the model, I'm going to call it that King Viserys is building of old Valyria.

[00:24:15] That's essentially what that is. You're traveling through old Valyria and they OK. So I was half right. Yeah. OK. I thought that would make the most sense, but it certainly wasn't the model because it was made of different material. It wasn't the actual model, right?

[00:24:34] But it was like they were using old Valyria, which if you look at his model, that's what he's building. So it kind of, I think, helps get you there a little bit to kind of see those similarities of when they're and it goes by very fast.

[00:24:49] So, you know. But what it is is they start the starting point. There's like these little cogs. I'm calling them like these little cogs and they have little symbols on them that give us a clue as to who each of those represent.

[00:25:04] So they start with Aegon's Crown or could also be like the doom of Valyria to their dragons there and it looks like Aegon's Crown. It's I think there's some interpretation there. I haven't heard anything like clear cut. This isn't like from the show runners.

[00:25:20] So maybe we'll get something more definitive, but it's basically the Targaryen family tree. You first one's Aegon and then you get Raines and Visenya, his two sister wives. And it goes all the way from Aegon, the conqueror when we're following this trail all the way to Rhaenyra.

[00:25:40] So that's super cool. So each character has a symbol with a circle in it. And it looks like I could say it starts with like doom of Valyria or could be Aegon's conquest. And then it starts with blood. It's the blood line and blood of the dragon.

[00:25:54] And as it flows, you can see it gets to Raines and Visenya, his sister, his sister wives. And then you get down to King Aenys, which is Aegon and Rhaenyra's son. And on the right after Aenys, we go down to two different circles, Jaehaerys and Allysane.

[00:26:14] And they are both filled with blood. Their little symbols are filled with blood because they're dead. And then you flow it branches out into many branches because Jaehaerys and Allysane had many, many kids. So it flowed into their kids. And in this section, you get Baelon and Alyssa.

[00:26:33] And then you get two streams here that's Daemon and Viserys. And in the back, if you look, you can see Coralus and Rhaeny's because of the blue symbol, the blue symbol, I believe represents Coralus. And then there's a slight stream

[00:26:51] which goes into Laina and Lenore, their two children. But then the main one goes to King Visarys and Emma. And Emma is filled with blood because she's dead at this time. And then the blood line, the blood starts to pick up really heavy.

[00:27:09] And then it goes to Runera. And it flows, it you'll then see Otto and Allysane. But then it goes right back to Rhaena's symbol. And you can tell Rhaena's symbol because that symbol that's on hers is that symbol that was on her necklace that Daemon gave her.

[00:27:30] I love that necklace before Viserys was king. Was it a direct line all the way up to Aegon? Up until that point. Oh, boy. Because no, because they they. You know, veered off because there were no male heirs and Viserys was actually the nephew of the king.

[00:27:55] Viserys was the grandchild of the heroes. OK, OK. Because his two sons had died. Right. Yeah. Viserys was the son of Bailon and Alissa. And Bailon died. So Viserys are now king. Viserys in this show was the oldest living male heir of King Jiharis, which was his grandson.

[00:28:28] And then there was Raines, Rainies. I'm going to mispronounce that every damn time. I'll never get it right. She was also the granddaughter of King Jiharis from his oldest son, Aemon, who had died. Was older. She was older. So she's older than than the series. Right. And truly.

[00:28:53] The child of the oldest son. Yes, she was. Right. Because Aemon. Direct. Right. Aemon was the oldest male heir for Jiharis and Alice Sane. And Raines was their daughter. So she had the legit. You know, right to the throne, right to the throne. And she was already pregnant.

[00:29:26] Yeah. So. So yeah. Well, in the show, in the show, she was already pregnant in the book. It was different, but in the show, she was already pregnant. Do you think the introduction will change as the episodes go on?

[00:29:40] That's what I'm because that was kind of what was really cool about the old introduction is we kept getting new lands and new places and new details. And I'm just wondering if it will change. I would say it probably will.

[00:29:55] You know, I say as the new generation starts marrying and having baby, yeah, we're going to see it keep going. I bet we will because I because it is the Targaryen family tree or the family trunk, if you will, France. Yeah. Then it's a little twig.

[00:30:16] Then I think we I think we will because I think it's safe to say. And I don't think this is really spoilery because if you've seen a trailer, I mean, we're we're going to we're going to go through this story and there's going to be marriages.

[00:30:28] There's going to be children to come. And I think that we will see some changes, I think, as these characters are, you know, as they're getting older and more, more, more children come or as maybe some die. Like I said, Queen Emma's was already had blood in it

[00:30:44] indicating she had died and the other Targaryen's, you know, beyond had had the blood as well to represent their death. So that could change if we have some deaths that come up, you know, we might see, you know, that change as well. So but I liked it.

[00:31:03] It took me a while, but I do think there were probably some problems with it for folks that. Even as a, you know, even having read the book, I struggled. And I think you have to, you know,

[00:31:15] I think it's probably very confusing for many folks not understanding what it is. I think I wish they'd spend a little bit more time on it, slow down in some places, maybe put their names or something to make it a little bit more clear as to what

[00:31:29] what each of those represented. And it would have been maybe a little bit more clear, so I can see where there would be some opinions that they didn't like it. But once I understood it, I was like, yeah, I like it.

[00:31:41] I was a little put off by the blood, but fire and blood. And certainly if the first two episodes are any example, this is going to be a violent show, maybe more so than the then game of thrones. So maybe that's what I took it to mean,

[00:32:01] because at first I was like, wow, that's a statement. Mm hmm. But yeah, fire and blood. Yep, I agree. Yeah. Well, I do like it that they use blood anyways too, just because, you know, it the Targaryens are very, very proud of being the blood of the dragon.

[00:32:20] And so I think that it is really, really important to be that vibrant with the blood because of how important it is to the Targaryens to have the blood of the dragon. Well, and in the purity of their blood line,

[00:32:35] the reason they intermarry so often is because they believe in that that purity and having the dragon's blood. So I think that as well, probably just represents has, you know, some of that mixed in there too. Yeah, I agree. I love that opening. It's a good one.

[00:32:57] So I'm going to kind of are you finished? I'm sorry. I was. I was just going to say, please, no, I was going to say, please. I definitely want to hear what yours is. So I'm going to go kind of, you know, with just like a theme.

[00:33:12] I really felt like this whole episode really kind of like honed in on the theme of betrayal. Mm hmm. There were so many different. So many different betrayals that were happening just in this small little episode that it just struck me every

[00:33:31] single time that there was another betrayal, I like dropped down another note and I'm like, Jesus. Shot, shot. Right. Oh, my gosh. Right. You were all drunk. We're all vomiting in the toilet if that's happening. So, you know, I think.

[00:33:53] I think that there are a lot of different levels of betrayal that are happening in this episode too. So being as it was such of the series heavy episode and the whole episode really, I mean, I know it's called

[00:34:05] the Rogue Prince and, you know, the Rogue Prince is essentially Damon. This episode really focused in on the series and how complicated his life is. And I think that he made a series of bad decisions in this episode that he ended up betraying

[00:34:25] everybody that was close to him. And we don't really know why, because they they definitely glossed over that. That whole thing. So, you know, you have, first of all, you have the series is talking to Corleys and Corleys is just like,

[00:34:48] hey, I think we should marry our two houses together. It's a good match for the blood of where, you know, we have the old Valeria blood. It's pure, you know, I'm trying not to say things that are also in the book.

[00:35:04] So I almost slipped up. So I apologize. You can add it. You know, it also helps the Valerian family with kind of securing their line into the throne because Corleys is a very ambitious man. Then you also have the Navy fleet. Go ahead.

[00:35:24] So sorry, I was adding to that not just for his own ambition, but also because. Of his wife, of his wife, Rainis was looked over. Supposed to be Queen. Yeah, this was Queen. Yeah, the Queen that never was. So he wants to write that ship.

[00:35:44] He also has ambitions of his own power. He also, you know, he says I was from old Valeria, just like the Targaryens, we've been around longer. We were richer. We have, you know, we have more power and more money. We just don't control the dragons.

[00:36:02] That's the only reason why we're not, you know, at the helm here. Well, it's a big reason, Corleys. Yeah, yeah, big reason. And so. So he, he's told he tells the series this is a good match. The Grand Maester tells Corleys this is a good match

[00:36:25] or tells the series this is a good match. Lord Lionel Strong says this is a good match. Your freaking daughter, Rhaenyra says this is a good match. Everybody's going in the small council thinking that they know what's going on and what happens. He betrays everybody.

[00:36:44] He betrays, first of all, he betrays all of his family members, all of them in one sentence. And you just I hate auto type high tower just so much. And I just know he was behind it.

[00:37:00] Just the way that he's sitting there, you know, looking with his little smug smile on his face, I just hate him so much. But you see this betrayal wash over Corleys and wash over Rhaenyra. And as he's saying it, you know, Allison and Rhaenyra looking at each other

[00:37:18] and that's a betrayal right there. And then the series is looking at Rhaenyra. And obviously he has said the wrong thing and he knows that he has lost Rhaenyra in that moment. So all of that is gone. And then you also have

[00:37:38] have Rhaeny's who has now been betrayed. And I mean, she's not in the room, but Rhaeny is poor thing. She's been betrayed by by the crown now twice, right? Once for her daughter and once for her. And again. Yeah.

[00:37:55] And then, you know, you can even take it so far as to the Corleys's actions afterwards when he invites Damon to Driftmark and they have that conversation at the end. And he wants to basically kind of stage a coup.

[00:38:12] He wants to say, hey, you want you I want, you know, power, you want to prove your worth. Let's let's stick it to the series and go handle this situation in the stones, you know? And so that's kind of a betrayal as well.

[00:38:26] And then you have Masira, who feels betrayed by Damon for expecting, you know, to be a wife and a mother when she doesn't want any of that. And he didn't even check with her like Wendy said earlier. And then you also have, I'm looking at my notes.

[00:38:48] There was one more. Oh, and then you have that majestic scene where you have a majestic scene that we will talk about later on the on the walkway of Dragonstone, where Reneara shows up and completely dismisses Otto and handles the situation and then leaves without

[00:39:09] even giving him a second glance. And I'm sure that Otto felt very betrayed in that moment, which he deserved, but that's just neither here nor there. So, you know, there's just there's a lot of backstabbing and betrayal that's happening. Some of it very deep. Some of it political.

[00:39:25] Some of it superficial, but they're really setting the stage for a kind of an anything goes and there are no loyalties in this westeros at this time period. And I think it's super complicated because on the other hand. Although the serous, I personally think Mary Lena made

[00:39:51] the most sense politically for him. Yeah, he doesn't owe anyone who he chooses for his wife. And that's what he felt, certainly with Otto's influence. And I thought that the conversation that Damon and Coralus had was definitely worrisome, but I felt like it went right up

[00:40:19] to the line of betrayal, but didn't quite cross it. Like everything. Everything the serous said. You know, I thought about this. Everything the serous did certainly. Was manipulative, but it like he just played dances on that line

[00:40:44] of not crossing it because I don't think he wants to betray his brother at this point. He might in the future, but I think he was mostly just trying to get his brother's attention. Yeah. And stealing that egg was a really big deal.

[00:41:09] Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And it was it was guaranteed that somebody was coming for it, which is exactly what he wanted. Yeah, I think you wanted to be seen. Yeah. Yeah. You wanted the serous to come, which was naive, I think a little bit of Damon

[00:41:26] and maybe he did or didn't know, I don't know, but that's what I got. Serious was ready to go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The series is ready to go. He's like, let's go, let's do this. It's been funny. And you know, you're talking about betrayal.

[00:41:42] I feel like, you know, there was definitely the betrayal to Raniya from her father and also from Allison. But it goes a little bit deeper that he didn't share. His decision with Raniya before that announcement there in the council, you know, they had they had this discussion

[00:42:07] which finally allowed them to kind of connect, I guess, after the six months after she lost her mother and he his wife, you know, and he's talking about the deep love that he had for Emma, which I believe I do believe

[00:42:20] he really did love Emma and he was completely devastated by losing her and the baby, of course. So I believe all of that. But he, you know, they're talking about the deep love that he had for her and tells her no one can replace her.

[00:42:35] And then Raniya is able to come to a place where she understands that her father needs to remarry, that this is his his duty as a king. They expect him to remarry and that this has to happen. She accepts that and she's ready for that announcement.

[00:42:51] But because it was supposed to be Laina politically, this is what they're saying is the smartest decision. And by him choosing not to marry Laina, but to choose Allison instead implies that the match that he has has chosen, the person he's chosen,

[00:43:12] is more of a love match versus the political match that should have been done, which made more sense than choosing Allison. So I think that's even more of a betrayal for Raniya is to say.

[00:43:28] Because this was supposed to be just a marriage in like not really name only because you're expected to produce heirs eventually. But, you know, it's it's it's not a love match. And I think by him choosing Allison, it's telling Raniya that this was

[00:43:45] some something more of a maybe not love yet, but more of a companionship, more of a there's something more there than just a political move. Like the possibility of his mother actually being replaced. Yes. Her mother actually being replaced.

[00:44:00] And it's and also that neither of them told Raniya that they had been even visiting with each other. So you know, Allison and Otto both seem to know ahead of time. Well, and it's almost kind of funny in a way because I remember

[00:44:17] when they when the scene started and everyone's gathering in the council room and you see Allison standing there next to her father, it's kind of like, well, what do you think she's doing there? She's not there any other time. Why do you think she's there?

[00:44:31] Why would she need to be there when they're talking about the king or when he's going to announce who he's going to marry and right Allison there? So I know, I don't know what you think was going to happen.

[00:44:42] Well, I guess you know, loud, you know, watching Raniya like just slowly look over at Allison and she knows what's about to happen. And Allison knows what's about to happen. And like they're just staring at each other and you're just like, oh no.

[00:44:58] I mean, the whole thing was terrible. Oh my gosh, your heart just broke or mine did, I know. And Millie Alcock is she's a wonderful actress. She is doing such an amazing job. I agree. The acting she was able to do in that scene with no words

[00:45:14] with just her voice and that look that came across her face. You could just see how betrayed she felt in that moment when she looked at her father and then looked at Allison and you're like, oh, damn.

[00:45:24] You know, you could tell how cut how far that cut her. I think it's such a bummer that we're going to lose her. Like, I don't even know what episode it is, but I'm already so attached to her. She is just knocking this out of the park.

[00:45:38] She's definitely carrying the show. She's doing fantastic. Yeah. I think I don't hope that actresses. Yeah, big shoes to fill. Mm hmm. Yeah. I so the adult actress, her last name is Darcy. I am a Darcy. Emma Darcy, I believe. Yep. Emma Darcy. She was cast first.

[00:45:59] So you would get a little heard them. Well, if you look at them, they they look. Oh, yeah. Very, very similar. So I'm really hoping that it's going to be the same caliber, you know, of of performance. It will be right. Yeah.

[00:46:17] I mean, we're sitting here and you know, like, we're really hope it's the same. Yeah, it will be. They've done a really good job with casting so far. Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to put my faith in them and hope so. But yes, she's really doing it.

[00:46:28] I mean, everyone is everyone's really doing great. I think the acting is top notch, but she is really doing a phenomenal job for being officially 22 or something. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of talent. Good. And yeah, that young age. Good for good for them. Good for her.

[00:46:46] Good for all of them. Um, OK, well, let's move on. Wendy, where do you want to go from here? I'm just going to continue this and talk about Otto because I have thought that he was the villain favorite from almost the the first time I saw him.

[00:47:06] Did you know that he is the quirky sidekick from Notting Hill? Isn't that hilarious? My husband loves Notting Hill, so I've seen it a thousand times. I just learned that there's no excuse for him. Yeah. I have not seen that, but I know enough about it.

[00:47:26] And then saw the side by side of him as Otto Hightower and then him in that role. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's the same guy. I know he's also the chain smoking kicker from the replacements. And I haven't seen the replacements, but my husband has.

[00:47:41] But when we've watched the first episode, my husband's going, I know that guy, I know that guy from somewhere. I know I'm from somewhere. And I looked it up and was like, wow. But I just thought he was the villain and he might not be.

[00:47:57] But I just thought he was the villain from the minute I saw that guy. He he just really seems to be the quiet person who's very incredibly tactfully manipulating every situation. He Coralus is lost ships and men to the crab feeder. And he just really quietly, nonchalantly says,

[00:48:22] will compensate you for that? Like Coralus isn't supposed to be upset about that. He encourages the king to escort Reneres out of the council meeting. He tries to control Reneira. Reneira, I don't know why I keep saying that. He tries to control Reneira in the political man

[00:48:43] maneuvering as she's choosing the Lord Commander for the Kings Guard. And he puts Allison in front of the king and he knows exactly what he's doing. He knows his king, he knows what he's going to do. He he knows his weaknesses.

[00:49:02] And he knows that he's going to choose a girl that he has, you know, had this rapport with for six months over a 12 year old that, you know, that he doesn't know. And he's he's kind of. He's he's the age thing really bothers him, you can tell.

[00:49:29] And I know like 15 is also very young. But in this world that they're in, you can tell the age really bothers him. And he sees Allison is much more mature because she has acted that way for six months because that is what was her father's bidding.

[00:49:48] He auto stops the king from confronting Damon himself. I mean, what do you think is out of the villain? I think yes. I think I have more information than what you do, Wendy. OK, all right. So yeah. So judging so judging by what we've seen so far.

[00:50:06] Is it? Yes, let's just talk about the two episodes. Taking it at face value. I really do agree with you because, you know, what you see is you see this man who if you were to just take Otto out of the picture, just lift him out, right?

[00:50:23] Damon would probably be hand of the king. Yeah. The series would be marrying Lena and Reneira would be the heir. Maybe it depends on the relationship between Damon and the series, if if Otto wasn't there. But Reneira would be the heir and. The problem would be the stepstones

[00:50:51] and not whatever the fuck is going on right now in in King's Landing. It's really interesting how much of a difference he makes and how much he plays on the series is grief with his own grief. I thought that this scene with the maggots scene. Yes. Yeah.

[00:51:12] When he starts saying, oh, I lost my wife. When he starts saying, oh, I lost my wife and it's a wound that will never heal. And he's trying to be all like, you know, just he's basically saying, isn't it nice to have comfort in others? I think, right?

[00:51:29] And then and then he thinks that he can manipulate Reneira. And when he and when he sees that he has a bigger task at hand with that, with the choosing of the Kingsguard. Oh, my gosh, that was amazing.

[00:51:43] When she's like, no, I think that I chose the right person. Don't you think what do you think that you think I'm wrong? So I liked it when she turned around on that.

[00:51:53] And then I don't know if you notice this, but to me, Otto was realized a little too late that he was in way over his head when he went to Dragonstone. Oh, yeah. What was the plan there? He has a dragon.

[00:52:12] None of us have forgotten about the dragons, right? And they seem shocked. I was like, yeah, did you forget? You know what a dragon stone, right? But dragons live here. Yeah. And you're facing. It's yeah, you're going up against Damon, who, you know, he I don't think

[00:52:33] he really thought that honestly, I think he just kind of underestimated Damon. He he's very dismissive of Damon. And Damon knows exactly who Otto is. You know, he said it really well in the first episode when King Viserys called

[00:52:51] him to the carpet and, you know, called him to the throne room and was very angry with him and he he let it be known what he thinks of Otto Hightower. He knows exactly what he's doing and he sees him for who he is.

[00:53:04] So, you know, and I'm like, yep, you were right on, dude. Like I said in the last episode, I'm like, Damon might be an asshole, but he's right. You know, he's not telling any lies. Mm hmm.

[00:53:15] So he definitely know his methods are questionable, but yes, he is correct. Yeah. And Otto Viserys. He's not a bad man, but he makes just all the wrong decisions. Like he's just closing his eyes and hoping for the best with all of these,

[00:53:35] like with the stepstones and everything else. And he's allowing himself to be manipulated. He's a weak king and Otto knows that and he takes advantage of that. So, yes. Yes, he's weak. Yeah. And I don't know that it doesn't look to me like Viserys is going

[00:53:54] to learn his lesson anytime soon. I think that he is grief stricken. Absolutely 100 percent. But he likes it when other people take the wheel, I think, you know? He didn't mind that, you know, Damon going to Dragonstone. Everybody considered that to be an outrage.

[00:54:17] And he's like, oh, gosh, I'm just glad that that's that's, you know, that's over there. I don't have to do it in the stepstones. That's over there. I don't have to deal with it. You know, let's have another party. And to some extent, I think he was right.

[00:54:30] Like let Damon show off like, I don't know. I don't think they gained anything by going. And then as soon as they saw that dragon, Otto was like seed the fucking steel. I was like, well, that was fast. Right. Right. What was the plan there?

[00:54:49] And maybe he wanted. People to die, but certainly not himself. So then he could say, well, you know, this is an act of war and there's no going back. I don't know. It wasn't clear. He was really, I think honestly, because I've thought about this

[00:55:06] a little bit, because it was such a bonehead mood, right? I think that he was arrogant enough that he actually thought that he could handle this situation. And when he saw that, Ramira not only had to save him,

[00:55:23] but a little girl saved him in front of everybody, all these nights and all these Kingsguard and all these city, or yeah, city, city watch, city watch. Sure. Yeah. And Damon and, you know, you embarrassed me in front of the dragons.

[00:55:40] Oh, my gosh, you know, like he was completely just got down at the knees. And that was the end. So, you know, Otto is a turd, man. He's just a turd. And Brunera just takes care of the situation with one conversation.

[00:56:06] Fixed and also like takes one glance at Damon and Miss area and is like, oh, is she pregnant? Because we all know she's not pregnant. Like she just it's so frustrating because they're not listening to her. And she's the one who knows what's happening.

[00:56:26] She has all the good ideas. All of now she's doing such a good job as queen and she's not even queen. And her dad is just like, you've got to go. I'm sorry, my friend Otto doesn't want you here anymore. You have to go. Yeah.

[00:56:39] Oh, I hate Otto so much. I'm so glad you brought him up. Yeah, I mean, he definitely seemed sus immediately. So glad I didn't take a sip of that water right when he said sus. I almost spit that out all over my computer and microphone.

[00:57:03] Rima, how about you? What is what's your second point? Oh, Otto, man. Good job. Sorry. Yay. Yeah, well, he's he's going to be one to watch, you know, for sure. And yeah, he's key and a lot of things moving forward is all all I'll say

[00:57:21] as are a lot of people, but, you know, definitely. He's he's he's a piece of the puzzle. So well, I'll just add I'll move mine around just a little bit and tag on to what Wendy was talking about. And that's Dragonstone.

[00:57:39] One, it was just great to be back at Dragonstone again. Right? We got some of that in Game of Thrones. And I love the setting of Dragonstone. So it was really great to be back there. And I love that it kind of went back to the original

[00:57:55] or at least in this time, in this time, as Dragonstone was back 200 or almost 200 years before Danny landed there at Dragonstone or when we saw Stannis at Dragonstone. I think that was the first time we saw Dragonstone because right now, dragons do live on Dragonstone.

[00:58:14] And so Dragonstone is meant to have like this smoky. It's misty because it is on the sea, but it's also kind of smoky. Dragons live there. So it's appropriate that, you know, you get this kind of mysterious, mysterious looking fog

[00:58:30] and smoke kind of mixed in and it just really set the tone, set the scene and it was perfect for that location of Dragonstone. And then we had the scene with Reneira. Oh, my gosh, that the clouds look like a shark moving underwater when that was amazing.

[00:58:49] Wasn't it like one of the most beautiful scenes ever as they are just rippling? I'm telling you, when I screamed at the TV, I certainly did. But that, you know, when we get her coming up from the clouds on the back of Cyrax and she lands there on

[00:59:12] just like a little bridgeway walkway, whatever it is that they're on as Otto and Damon are already there having their little standoff. So yeah, there's that. Sorry, I'm just kind of having that imagery in my head and can't seem to move past it.

[00:59:29] But what what makes this great as you were talking about was this was a scene where. Otto. Sees Reneira as a threat, not a helpless princess. You know, when he he gives this little subtle look

[00:59:54] after she takes the egg from, well, I guess not take, but after Damon tosses her the egg, you know, she she gets the egg. This look that he gives her, he realized in that moment she was not going to be controlled like her father.

[01:00:10] You know, like I said, it's awesome. Yeah, the series is easily manipulated. He wants to keep the peace. He just wants things happy. You know, again, he's not a bad man, but he's not a great king and he allows himself to be manipulated very easily and very controlled.

[01:00:26] And in that moment, I think Otto saw Reneira because he got a glimpse of it. As you mentioned when she was choosing Sir Kristen Cole for the Kingsguard, because he's trying to steer her one way. And she's like, nah, I'm good. I made my choice.

[01:00:41] And this is why this is what makes the most sense to me. And of course, he can't, to a point, argue she is the princess and she is the heir, so he kind of lets it go.

[01:00:51] But I think this was definitely a scene that he saw how alike she was to Damon and he absolutely hated it because, you know, Otto and Damon obviously very much clash and he knows he's not going to be able to manipulate her

[01:01:05] to his benefit when she becomes queen. And I feel like this is when he pivots to the Alice in plot. Because he sees Reneira, you know, as a loose cannon a little bit. And I think he also knew she would never give up the crown

[01:01:26] for a male sibling. And I think he's already thinking about, yep, I'm going to I'm going to get Allison in there and get some airs. Right. Better air than his own grandchildren with the daughter that obviously is willing to do his bidding. Yeah, yeah, it's the same.

[01:01:46] It's the same ambition that Corleys has. That, you know, it's just a little bit more sinister because he's a turd. Yeah. And it's well, and because, you know, Otto in the first episode, he's the one telling the series, hey, you know, you don't have to name Damon

[01:02:08] as air because he hates Damon. Last thing he wants is Damon as air. He's like, you've got your daughter. And this episode he's like, hmm, well, I've got to change that now because he knows he could never control Damon. He knows he could never control or manipulate Damon.

[01:02:24] Well, let's name the girl. I can definitely control her. She's a little girl. Yeah. So all the patriarchy, right? And in this scene, he realizes, no, that's not going to happen. So a lot of things happening there in this scene.

[01:02:38] And of course, the, you know, the interaction between Reneira and Damon, of course, you know, you have to kind of mention that too. It's, you know, that that special relationship that those two have, you know,

[01:02:54] and I never believed for a minute that Reneira was ever in any danger in this scene. Damon clearly adores her. And I think as soon as she shows up, he immediately decides to stop like trolling Otto and he didn't even pretend to be

[01:03:12] confrontational with her. He just got a little cheeky. And I love Matt Smith. I think he's doing, I had my doubts way back in the beginning when I heard he was being cast as Damon Targaryen.

[01:03:23] I was like, oh man, that's quite a, you know, that's a meaty juicy roach. And he pulled this off. And I think he's doing a fantastic job. So I think that's really great. And I think he, I think Damon was OK backing down to Reneira.

[01:03:38] He, I think would have rather died than backing down to Otto. And I think he was probably going to feed Otto to Craxis. I would have liked that. Reneira hadn't showed up. I would have fixed a lot of problems. Would have fixed a lot of problems.

[01:03:53] I'll say that. But just I think a really great scene there, Dragonstone with where it kind of helps move these things forward with the series, you know, choosing Allison and Otto really pushing hard for that, I think, and kind of because he knows he's not

[01:04:12] going to be able to control her. Agreed. Yeah. You know, one of my favorite parts about that whole scene too was when when Reneira gets the egg in her hand and she looks down at it and she gets that smile on her face because that's her first real

[01:04:29] win that she's had that was just for her. And she was able to just, you know, put the egg back, secure the egg. Kind of gave everybody a look like, OK, well, that's done. You know, got on the dragon and flew away. And it was just wonderful.

[01:04:47] She barely spoke to any of, you know, her side on it or Otto's side or whatever, right? She spoke directly to her family member, got the egg back and flew away. You know, yeah, she did exactly what needed to happen. And the way that she really kind of

[01:05:09] calms down the series in the aftermath of that when she's like, well, I did it without bloodshed, which I'm pretty sure Otto could not do. And you could see the series right. This series understands that and he laughs and like she seems to be somebody

[01:05:27] that is just so straightforward, but so honest about it that she just kind of cools down any high, high intensity situation so far. Who knows what kind of trouble she's going to cause in the future. But for right now, maybe it's because she's so young,

[01:05:46] but she's getting away with saying a lot and being very forward, which is it's so awesome when when she got that win. Agreed. It was great. It took a Targaryen to solve the Targaryen problem, honestly. This was this was this was not so much,

[01:06:04] you know, an issue for Otto to handle in the realm. This was a Targaryen problem. So you sent in a Targaryen to take care of it. Exactly. Well, I say Damon and Rene, Rene, what am I doing? Dame, Damon and Rene, they respect each other. They're almost equals.

[01:06:27] They both are dragon riders. And I like the tension between them. It's a little hard to figure out what's going on there. But I like the tension between them. They have excellent chemistry. And you could see that it seems like

[01:06:46] this is from a non book reader that they care about each other, that they respect each other. And it seems like Damon wouldn't hurt her now again. That could change in the future. But from what we see right now is that,

[01:07:02] you know, he does care about her and he he didn't lie to her about anything. Yeah. Yeah, he seems she seems to be the one that he cannot lie to. Yes. You know, she knew it.

[01:07:17] She knew that he'd be on, you know, it's just when we see the first side of him and he's on the throne and she's just like, what are you doing? You're, you know, get off of there or whatever. Right. They have a very honest conversation.

[01:07:30] He clearly loves her. He clearly dotes on her as as his niece and gives her the necklace and that she wore all in the second episode. If you notice, she was wearing that necklace. You know, she's the only one that could get through to him

[01:07:43] when he was throwing his tantrum with the egg. You know, so yeah, there is definitely a nice connection there. And I like how they've how they've really added that, you know, while. You know, a lot of this dialogue and these scenes and stuff, they're not in the books.

[01:08:03] But, you know, when it says how much everybody doted on Rani, you know, I like how it's being portrayed. So it's and yeah, I like that chemistry between Damon and Rani. Yes. OK, so that was that was a remise.

[01:08:27] So you guys, you guys are so you're hitting all of my points. Like I wrote out a very long list. Oh, no, I wrote out a really long list because I was like, that this this will everything I'm writing down there.

[01:08:38] We're going to talk about it like backups. Yeah, right. I got backups and backups because I was really excited that we got to see Dragonstone so much, I just thought it was really awesome to be back there and to see the bridge and the dragons.

[01:08:57] But I do want to turn our discussion over to that final scene between Damon and Corliss because I thought that there was just so much there. And it was so awesome. So good. Yeah. Great, great scene. One like really, really well done

[01:09:19] and we're also in a new location. So Corliss has gone back to Driftmark. He has left King's King's Landing, which I think is rather significant. And so, you know, they're at and there were some really weird pieces in this like room that they were in.

[01:09:37] Like there was that weird headstone almost that had all the stuff on it. It kind of almost thought we were at the crab feeder. It seemed like what was on the crab feeder. Right? So maybe that maybe that's something that we're going to learn of what that is.

[01:09:55] There was a question in book talk as to whether or not it was grayscale or could it be a disease? Could I suggest it maybe scurvy, you know? So I who knows maybe it's something completely different because of that little sculpture seem to have the same markings

[01:10:12] that the crab feeder had. So we'll see. But it was definitely a different setting and darker and broodier and moodier. And it really fit fit the grumpy scene of the two characters. But I love the way that they both have these Damon and Corliss

[01:10:35] have they both have these deep, deep, deep ambitions to prove themselves, even though Corliss has proven himself. And you kind of wonder is this like we were talking about earlier. Is this because he wants what his wife is do or is this because he has so much ambition?

[01:10:56] Could be a combination of both. What do you think? Did he marry his wife thinking that she was a direct descendant to the throne? That's a really good question because he probably thought that that marriage was bonding the two families together and then being passed off could really,

[01:11:15] you know, he becomes a second son. I mean, in this world people marry for power. Right. Very few. Very few love. Right. Even your sister brother and sister. Yeah. Well, and I mean also he was losing a lot of money.

[01:11:33] He mentioned that that, you know, they were already getting taxed quite a lot, but he was losing his ships, losing his men. I mean, that's that's his stronghold. Corliss is his, his fleet of ships. That's how he's built his wealth. That is what he's known for.

[01:11:51] And he's losing that. You know, it's like he's getting picked off, you know. And yeah, they said, oh, we'll, we'll reimburse you or whatever. Well, that's not really a solution to the big picture. Right. Maybe that's just like a temporary thing.

[01:12:06] So I think that's also part of it. I mean, I think, I think there's many reasons why, but I do think that is at least part of it because he's, he's a self-made man and he's seeing what he's built.

[01:12:18] You know, taken unfairly, you know, by these pirates and such. So I think he's definitely pissed. And I think also just the decision the series made dismissing Lena as a potential or, you know, as a match and wife. You know, he's had enough. Right. Yeah.

[01:12:41] And I mean, you know, you really feel that in Coralus, you know, you feel that he, that he is just angry and he's on the verge of desperation, I think because of this most recent betrayal by the series. And I love that he called him over.

[01:13:03] I love the fact that David said, Hey man, he's my brother. I'll say what I want about him, but you're not allowed to talk shit. And I think that's Damon. Yeah. Oh, 100%. 100%. He wants so Coralus wants this. This step stones problem to go away.

[01:13:25] He wants it dealt with me knows he's not going to get it with this area. So he goes to the war hungry brother who is who wants to prove themselves and the speech that he gives Damon is so powerful

[01:13:40] and it really brings to light the strong character that this sea snake is. And I got really excited about more of what we're going to see of Coralus Valerian because I think that he's doing a phenomenal job of portraying this really strong, almost legendary character.

[01:14:06] You know when he says that he built everything that he that he has, he's right. I mean, he built drift mark from the ground up. He rebuilt the castle. He, he sailed across all the seas. He's, I mean, his story is epic. It's the stuff of legends.

[01:14:26] And so when he says we've been passed over too long. Yeah, he has. I mean, look at all he's built and he just keeps getting passed over. He's not a dragon lord. Sorry, you can't be king. You married the wrong girl. You had a girl.

[01:14:41] You didn't have a boy first, you know, your girls too young to be the kings, to be the king's wife. I mean, it's just one thing after another. I think. What the last line of the whole episode really shows, you know,

[01:14:56] the depths of what he wants when he says we are the realms of second sons are worth is not given must be made. And that right there, I think is both of those characters and really, really excited to see what comes next. I agree.

[01:15:13] It's going to be a pretty awesome episode, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, yeah, this is going to happen next next week. So Wendy, let's go to you for your final point. I think all my points have been taken.

[01:15:32] Is there anything else you want to talk about? I have a lot of notes. Let's see. I'll talk a little bit about the seris and I know we have talked about a lot of a lot about the seris, but I do think just like

[01:15:47] Rima said, he seems like he's a good man, a caring man, cares about his country, cares about the people on his council, cares about his family, cares about Damon, cares about Rana. But he seems like he's a weak king. He isn't.

[01:16:06] He just wants peace even when it was when they flashback to the council where he was decided that he was going to be king or he was going to be the heir. It seemed like he wasn't happy about that responsibility.

[01:16:22] He probably never thought it would be his and I'm not sure he really wanted that responsibility and as the years have gone by and this, you know, crazy burden that him and Emma had to get an air

[01:16:38] to get an air to have children to have children and all the loss that they had, it seems like he's been through a lot and he just wants peace. He just wants to play with his sandcastles and but I mean, I really like him.

[01:16:53] You know, he seems I really like him. He seems like a good person and even him and Allison. Like I see some chemistry there and it seems like there's real feeling there. Allison's really hard to read.

[01:17:08] Like it is there feelings there or is this just this is what I was supposed to do. You know, I was supposed to make a good match and this is the best match in the world and I did what my father told me to do.

[01:17:21] It's a little hard to tell. And the other thing is I a couple of notes about this Harris is that we find out that Viserys was the last rider of Beleri and the dread. And I thought that was really cool.

[01:17:36] And it's hard to see him that way because he seems weak and he so it's it's hard to imagine him riding on a dragon and we see Damon, you know, with his dragon in the background and we see Ranae riding her dragon.

[01:17:53] But we we it seems like he's too old or weak for that. He never bonded with another dragon. And I think that's what I was going to say. I mean, I think he died Beleri and but I believe it was just one time when

[01:18:08] he was 16 and Beleri and died shortly after and he never took on another dragon. And I think that yeah, you took you took the thought right out of my mouth because that was exactly where I was going with that. What do you think about that?

[01:18:23] What do you think about the fact that he doesn't have that love and he's he's not a dragon, you know, he's that really surprised. He's just he's not like Renea. He's not like Damon, the dragon riders.

[01:18:39] He just doesn't seem to have that same kind of mentality that fear someness taking risks, you know, that's not the series. It hasn't seemed to live up to his family's name. And he's sick. There's something wrong with him. He seems like he has some kind of healing disorder,

[01:19:00] like diabetes or something like that. That's was my take on it. Mm hmm. Yeah, there's yeah. And, you know, they did not have Bactine, you know, in Westeros. They had Magics. They really needed some antibacterial something because I feel like that's, you know, we've seen it before.

[01:19:24] We saw it with with Cal Drogo, you know, in Game of Thrones, where he wasn't able to and he was young and virile and, you know, I think it was just I think it's just the times I think something

[01:19:37] is simple because the wound on his pinky was from in the first episode to get the the throne cut him. And that's just a little killing him. I mean, interesting. Yeah, there's yes, you have no idea how correct you are.

[01:19:53] And the one on his back was from the throne. It was from the throne. Yeah. But even just like a simple cut. I mean, to think that, you know, it's like medieval times, right? Just a simple little cut of your finger can kill you because of infection.

[01:20:06] You don't have, you know, there wasn't the, oh, I need to wash my hands before I go touch this person, touch that person and this person, you know, and probably didn't wipe it down with clean bandages and things like that. And yeah, yeah.

[01:20:19] Every time I think about stuff like that, I just think about what does it smell like in this world because it probably smells pretty bad. But the thing is if you smell it every day, you don't notice it. You know, it's somehow worse. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:37] But that was just some finishing thoughts on viscera. Yeah. Very viscera is heavy episode. Like he was just in almost every single scene and he was so, he was so intricately woven into the entire plot of the episode. Yeah. For an episode titled The Rogue Prince. Yeah.

[01:20:58] We didn't see him very often. No, we did not. And I needed a little bit more Damon this episode. I'm sure we'll get more of him. I think we'll get more of him. I think we'll get more of him. Yeah.

[01:21:11] I'm sure we'll get more of him as it continues. But yeah, definitely heavy on the, on viscera is and what's, what they do a good job of though is that even though, you know, we can argue and say, you know,

[01:21:24] viscera is weak and he's not making good decisions, but they don't make him out to be dumb. Like you understand and kind of see the decisions that he comes to like they like you don't agree with it, but you're like, well, I kind of see what you're doing.

[01:21:38] And understand to a certain point and how he gets to those decisions. So I don't think that they're making him look dumb or stupid. I think he's smart. He's just easily manipulated. He's weak and just wants things to be like,

[01:21:52] he's a people pleaser and he's just willing to listen to the people around him instead of, you know, having more of a stronger mind. So, you know, I do at least like that they're doing that with him. You know, like they're not making him out to just be

[01:22:04] stupid. Right. He's not an empty crown. He's just got different priorities. Yeah, just not a very effective ruler. Well, that kind of you, Rima. Yeah, let's okay. So. Yeah, I'm just going to talk about the dragons because that's what I do. Okay.

[01:22:26] What I'm loving so far because we did, and we've met. Coraxies for a very short amount of time in the first episode and we got to see Syrax, but what I've really loved that it looks like they're going for is that they're making dragons like their own characters.

[01:22:45] They're not just dragons. They're not just, you know, weapons of war and destruction. They are becoming their very own. They're becoming their own. They're becoming their own characters. They have their own unique sounds or cries, if you will, that we got to hear in this episode. You know,

[01:23:05] that whistling from cracks is, oh my God. It was just so, so great. It was cool. I had never heard anything like that. It was wonderful. And I mean, of course his approach when he climbs up over that rock there at dragon stone and he's like

[01:23:19] looming over Damon and the dragon. He was very snake like. Yes. Well, they call him the blood worm. That's his nickname because he has because it will. He's red and he's got that distinctive like long neck that's a little bit more distinctive than other dragons

[01:23:38] that we've seen so far or have known. And he's called his nickname, the blood worm. He's very battle hardened if that helps you. He's been through a lot of battles. With Damon and he's, he's, you know, probably as bad as aggressive.

[01:23:53] I would say very much in this way cracks. He's in Damon are very, very well matched as far as dragon and dragon writer. And then we got some noises from sirex. Oh my God. She's so beautiful. She's now my new desktop background.

[01:24:08] Sirex is this beautiful golden dragon with these beautiful gold and silver. And he's got a lot of different colors. And he's got a lot of different colors too. He's got great colors. That was the beautiful golden dragon with these beautiful green eyes. She's, she's gorgeous and her,

[01:24:25] as I mentioned her entrance in this episode was gorgeous. And when she steps onto the, the walkway there was great. And she's young, right? She's young. I don't. Yeah. Because she is, well, obviously Reneara is, And she is her only dragon rider, Cyrax. So she's a young dragon.

[01:24:49] Yeah, she's 15 because her egg was in. I'm assuming yeah, she was probably in her crib as tradition for most Targaryens, I believe she was hatched and bonded with. And just to side note, Rhaenyra was one of the youngest dragon riders.

[01:25:04] I think I don't, I'd have to go back because I might be misspoken, but she was seven. Wow. She became a dragon rider. She was like one of the youngest. They're not always that young. They're usually around 12, maybe 15, sometimes a little older before they become dragon riders.

[01:25:19] She was seven when she rode Cyrax for the first time. And there was a definite size difference between Caraxes and Cyrax. Yes. I liked, and I enjoyed that. I enjoyed the different ages and the different sizes. And seeing them get to interact a little bit,

[01:25:36] you know, when Rhaenyra comes up from the clouds and she kind of circles around. And you know, you see Caraxes kind of following her, just a moment. And it was glorious. But there were some dragons that were mentioned

[01:25:55] that we didn't get to see that I'm hoping that we'll see. I'm pretty confident for the next one. And I'll keep this, I'm gonna give a little history without being spoiler-ish. It's gonna be talking, it's more about what's happened previous to, so I don't think it's too spoilery.

[01:26:11] But Vagar, when a little, I call her a little, because she was just a little tiny thing. Lenore was talking with Viserys and she asked about Vagar. Vagar is a she-dragon from House Targaryen. She was ridden by Queen Visenya, Targaryen during Aegon's Conquest.

[01:26:32] So Vagar comes from way back. She comes from Old Valyria. She was there with Beleriand, who as we mentioned, Viserys, did ride one time before Beleriand passed. So she's old. The color of Vagar's scales and wings and the color of her flame, they're not mentioned in the books,

[01:26:56] but there was, I guess they did a calendar, a 2021 calendar song of ice and fire and the person behind that asked clarification from George R. R. Martin and his team and they said Vagar was bronze with greenish blue highlights and bright green eyes. So she sounds beautiful

[01:27:16] and I think we're gonna see her sometime. That's what I was gonna say. I, that was one of my notes that she's nesting somewhere and I feel like they wouldn't bring that up if we weren't gonna see her. I hope so. Yeah, that was cool.

[01:27:32] Yeah, I think she's going to be a glorious and she's right now in this time, she is the largest living dragon. Beleriand was a little larger than her, but he has since passed. She is now the longest living and largest dragon right now. We got mentioned of Dreamfire.

[01:27:54] The egg that Damon stole was Dreamfires, little egg. We haven't seen her yet, but she has a silver blue dragon. Hoping she also turns up because I think she is also a glorious looking dragon. There's all gonna be glorious. I don't care what the hell they look like,

[01:28:14] they just will be. Dreamfire is a she dragon. She was first ridden by Princess Reina Targaryen. She's a slender dragon. She's primarily pale blue with silver markings. She had silver crests and pale blue wings. And so yeah, she has been around a little bit.

[01:28:33] She's got some history to her too. So I think hopefully we'll get to see her as well. I can't wait to see some of these dragons. That's what I love. It seems like they're sticking to some of these descriptions

[01:28:43] and they're giving them a little bit of a personality, which I love because I mean, there's a lot of different opinions about dragons and are they smart or are they just dumb creatures? And Tyrion talked a bit in the show and in the books about dragons.

[01:29:02] And I think that they are smarter than what people give them credit for and obviously they're trainable and they do bond with their dragon writers and often are very close with them. So I thought it was glorious that we got obviously some more dragons.

[01:29:19] I can't wait to see more, but I love where they're going with it as far as because God, they're doing a really good job with the CGI. They look friggin real. Agreed. This episode, but I love that they're giving them like their own character traits,

[01:29:33] colors and character traits, I think. So I love that. And I hope I get a lot more of it. That's my final point. I have some notes, but that's my final point. So I'll stop there. Yeah, I love those dragons. Oh my gosh, they're so...

[01:29:54] It's fun when we see them. We haven't had enough of them, in my opinion. I'm really hoping that we have some dragon action here real soon, but I like building the world and building the dragons naturally. They're not this logistical thing that people are surprised to see anymore.

[01:30:16] They're just a part of life. That's part of life. Yeah, it's fun because yeah, I think we talked about in the first episode how she was riding Cyrax over King's Landing and everybody's just like, whatever. It's just another day, a dragon flying in the sky

[01:30:31] whereas when we saw it in Game of Thrones, everybody's like, what? You know, there's no one seeing a dragon in 100 years. So yeah, I love that. I was like, how do I get there? How just pick me up and I'll deal with the infection

[01:30:45] and I'll deal with the indoor plumbing and things like that. Just transport me there into the role of dragons. That's all I care about. Or we can just bring the dragons into our world with the cluminess and the Clorox wipes. Probably a better idea. And the plumbing.

[01:31:04] Let's not forget the plumbing. But you know what? I would sacrifice plumbing for getting to ride a dragon. So. All right, that's fair. That's fair. Okay, so let's see. I have a few things that I wanted to talk about that I could talk about actually.

[01:31:28] But you know what? I think I'm just gonna kind of go with Lionel Strong. I'm gonna dip into him just for a minute and maybe even get to Crab Tree. Crab Tree, Crab Theater. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, you know. Oh, Kristen.

[01:31:50] So Lionel Strong is a fairly new character. I don't think that we really saw him last week. If we did, it was very in the background. But Viserys when he needed an unencumbered opinion, he asked to meet with Lionel Strong.

[01:32:13] And so they sit down and you kind of get the feeling that Lionel Strong is somebody that is going to tell the truth to the king, even if he doesn't wanna hear it. He's very straightforward. And he has a wisdom to him.

[01:32:31] The reason why he has a wisdom to him, and I am going to say that this is from the books, it's just background story on him. It's not any like what you call it, a spoiler. Right, no spoilers. And I know exactly where you're going. Yeah, yeah.

[01:32:47] So Lionel Strong was going to be a maester and he went to the Citadel to go through his maester training and he actually got six links of a chain. And one of the things that he is an expert on is the laws of the seven kingdoms.

[01:33:09] And after six links of his chain, he realized that he didn't want the maester life. So he left and he eventually married and he had kids or whatever, we'll meet his family I'm sure later. But Lionel is a really good person to kind of lean on.

[01:33:29] And I thought that it was a really great choice for him to be introduced this way. And he comes across as somebody who has that maester wisdom but he's also of the world. He's not just a priest or a monk or whatever that lives behind the Citadel walls,

[01:33:53] he has carved out an entire life for himself. Kind of maybe even like Sam O'Tarley, although he did complete all of his training, he still carved out a life for himself. He had a wife and he had a son and he fought in wars. What's that? Baby Sam.

[01:34:16] Baby Sam. Love that baby Sam. So I think that just kind of bringing him up just for a second, just to say like, hey, this character, there's a reason why he went to Lionel Strong. There's a reason why Lionel Strong said,

[01:34:35] hey, this is actually a really good idea of the series. You should do this. Yes. And the fact that he didn't take that opinion, I think was also really kind of a drag move. But it was very telling of the series too.

[01:34:55] The series is just not in his right mind right now. He shouldn't be making any decisions for himself. So that's Lionel Strong without saying too much about the character and the future, whatever. That's kind of the basis of information that I think

[01:35:13] that everybody should just kind of know about him because he's a cool character. The second one was Kragas. Kragas Drahar. He is the crab feeder. Right now, last week we heard a lot and I think I'd go over this

[01:35:29] a little bit in book talk too, but for those of you who don't listen to book talk, this is just a little bit of background information because I think it's really important to know kind of this little aspect of the story.

[01:35:44] Last week, you know, our introduction to Coralus Vilarian is him walking into the small council meeting and he's like the crab feeder and the steps stones and the triarchy and the blah, blah, blah. And I'm pretty sure everybody's head was spinning after that

[01:35:57] because that's a lot of new words for Game of Thrones fan. And it's easy to just kind of glaze it out of your mind because it's something that you're like, I'll just learn about that later. But then again this week, what happens again

[01:36:12] is Coralus comes right into that small council meeting and he's like, all right, man, this guy has now taken my ships. He's killed my men. We really have a problem with the step stones. Can we please have somebody pay attention?

[01:36:26] And then you have the grand maester who is like, we're not going to do, we're not going to have a war with the free cities. You know, that's not something that we do here in King's Landing or the seven kingdoms. And so what has happened?

[01:36:42] So what is the triarchy, right? So the triarchy is actually another word for, you know, the free cities. And that consists of Lees or Lias or Lies, however you want to say it, Lies, Meir and Tyrosh. So the kind of the leader,

[01:37:03] the admiral of Meir is this man, Kragus Drahar. He is the crab feeder. He's the guy that is kind of leading the charge to get rid of pirates in the step stones, but he's doing it in a very vicious way. Kind of becoming, it looks like a pirate.

[01:37:22] Who knows? So I think that as we discuss who is the villain of this story, who is the villain of this season, it's very easy to say it's Otto. It's Otto Hightower, 100%. But there's also this like real weird sadistic dude that's

[01:37:41] hanging around covered in some kind of scales. And he has a mask that looks real weird and he's, you know, nailing people to posts and feeding them to crabs. And it looks like a real bad situation. So I think that we have kind of two central plots here.

[01:38:00] And just like with Game of Thrones, we have a lot of different things that we're going to do. And I think we're going to be able to figure out which one are we going to pay attention to, right?

[01:38:09] So we'll see kind of how the season shakes out with that. But if you're not paying attention to what's going on in the step stones, maybe start paying attention to that. Cause that seems super important. I really liked the visuals that they presented.

[01:38:25] Like I wrote, I wrote a note that we've seen some dark twisted violent ways to kill people from this franchise. And it was awful and spectacular all at the same time. Yeah, I'm excited. You're like, ooh. But like, yeah. Yeah.

[01:38:44] Did you notice the cut where they go from the crabs eating the guy alive to, you know, in the blood pouring down his leg and the crabs eating his raw flesh to Renaris pouring wine. Yeah. I thought that was great. They do a good job with that. Yeah.

[01:39:09] I'm excited for, you know, to kind of get to this, the step stones part of the story, you know, just from the book. So I can't wait. I did see the preview from next week. Oh, did you? Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:39:27] I'm really going to see some, some, uh, some battle. Yeah. I think so. Um, okay. Well, let's go to notes who has them. I know we all do. I feel like I have talked about most of mine. I thought that the actress who plays Miss area,

[01:39:47] I'm not sure what they're doing with her accent, but it was kind of off putting and took me out of the scene. I think they're trying to make her a mixed bag or something. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what they're doing.

[01:40:03] But even with the subtitles, it was very like. I mean, I think there's something they're going for. And it's causing her to talk very slowly. And it just took me out of the scene. I didn't, I, I mean, she's beautiful. And I thought.

[01:40:24] She certainly was acting really well, but I think whatever accent they're trying to have her give is, it's just like, I don't know. I think that's what they're trying to do. So I hope they kind of correct that. She has a very shade feel to her.

[01:40:40] Oh, I was going to say the exact same thing. Yeah. So, and she had a very similar accent, except I think it was done a little bit better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And I think that. Oh, I had a note about. Renera and Rainice.

[01:40:59] They're seeing that they had together. And I can't quite read Rainice like. Is she jealous? Um, is she purposefully hurting. Renera. Is she baiting her? Is she trying to warn her like I couldn't quite figure it out. And she's fascinating to watch Rainice. She's gorgeous and fascinating.

[01:41:25] And I love it, but I just can't read her. I feel like she's, she's that aunt that just drops the facts. She's that aunt that you know, that just like, here's just the way it is. And I feel like that's what she was doing with Renera. And.

[01:41:42] You know, it. It, because it's sad to see. Uh, Rainice. How she was cast aside just because she was female. It's the only reason that she was cast aside. She had a rightful claim and she was cast aside because she was female. And not only that,

[01:42:01] not only was she passed up because she was female, but her son, Lenore was also passed up as air because he, his claim to the throne was through his mother. So the, the claim coming from the female of the family was still not

[01:42:20] even though he's a male heir, still not as strong as the series who was, you know, I cannot remember because Jhares and Alice had so many children. If Bailon was like third or fourth wherever he was in line being the male heir from, from his father.

[01:42:38] So, you know, they got spurned twice already. And then a third time whenever the series decided not to, to choose Lena. But she's at a point where I think it's like, if you can't beat him, join him.

[01:42:52] Because then she's ready to just go ahead and marry her off her 12 year old daughter to the series because this is the game. So, but I like her too. I think she's fascinating. And I think she would have made an outstanding queen over the series. I think,

[01:43:11] I think that there's a generational gap between, you know, Rainey's and Rhaenyra. And we're seeing that because Rainey's really wants it to be, you know, they're going to pass you up. They would rather, what did she say that I thought was awesome because I did,

[01:43:29] I wrote it down. I think she said they would torch this kingdom to the ground before they have a woman. Yeah. Basically they'll burn the realm before they put a woman on the iron throne. I can hear Danny screaming from the future. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

[01:43:46] You know, so, and, and that does prove to be true in this episode, but you can also see that Rhaenyra is trying to carve a path for herself. Even with this fair warning and evidence of the warning that her aunt gave her.

[01:44:01] So it's interesting to kind of see. How the old. The old ways or the current ways. Our current ways are kind of like, the old ways or the current ways. Are kind of moving into this new path that, you know, Rhaenyra is determined to forge.

[01:44:21] With her father's backing, which is interesting. So it'll be interesting to see what role. Rainey's plays in the future as far as Rhaenyra's. Queen ship. Goes. Yep. I agree. That was it for me. Oh, cool. I liked the. Damon.

[01:44:44] I will speak of my brother as I wish you will not. Yes. That line in that delivery was great. I've mentioned before Matt Smith as Damon. He's really embodied that character. And I think that really tells you a lot about Damon.

[01:44:59] And I think that's a great thing to say. I mean, I know he's a great. He's a great character. And he's a great, great character as well. And I think that really tells you a lot about Damon and his character. Like he loves his family. You know, regardless.

[01:45:14] And he's the only one that talked shit about him. That's right. Or at least by his brother. That's how I feel like that's how I felt like with my mom. I would complain about my mother to my husband.

[01:45:23] And I'd be like, no, you're not allowed to talk to talk about her. I'm a. Right. I'm a great character. And, you know, you can say a lot and we're going to learn a lot about him as we move on. I won't say anything because obviously it's books.

[01:45:36] But, you know, that I don't think that that's something you can argue with this is love for his family. And wanting to protect his family. This isn't really a line, but I just, I have to say, and I feel, I feel like it might have been intentional.

[01:45:54] Seeing the series with Lane of Valerian. I think that had me rooting for him to marry a 15 year old. Yes. It was grotesque. To think about it. Yeah. So shocking, you know, it is just because she here's this beautiful, tiny little girl.

[01:46:15] She's 12 years old and she just looks so. I mean, she was so beautiful and just smart as a whip. You know, she's going to be something when she grows up. But, um, And she didn't look 12. She looked eight. She looked 20. Yeah. I hate that way. Yeah.

[01:46:30] Take the wig off that poor girl looks like it weighs more than her. Yeah. It's goodness gracious, but this tiny little girl standing next to this man, this full grown man. And you're like, yeah, go marry the 15 year old, which is still icky, right?

[01:46:49] I mean, I mean, I get it. This is the world that we're in. Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. Parenting what her parents had told her to say, and that was gross. And then she said, I don't have to bed you until 14. Have to.

[01:47:04] Well, yeah, it's not good. Yeah. So it's, you know, the. Yeah. So yeah, this, this, uh, definitely was like, okay, yeah, we're, I'm okay with you marrying a 15 year old because I really don't want you to marry this 12 year old, um, at all.

[01:47:20] That is something I can't do. I mean, I'm not going to marry her. Um, I don't want to get married and this, this might be a little bookish, but I, you know, I believe he also in the book did not want to marry her because she was 12.

[01:47:32] So yeah. And I think, you know what, as we've talked about Viserys, just wanted to add, I think it adds to it's a testament to his character that he prefers the easy way out the comfortable way. Um, You know, I agree. That's interesting. Yeah.

[01:47:45] He prefers the easy way out. Typical man. Yeah. Yeah. He's a great person. I love that, because he's a great person. He's a great person. Yeah. And I'm not going to do it with the other two. I'm not going to get married.

[01:47:57] I'm not going to do it with those guys. Not deal with confrontation and, you know, Uh, yeah. So gosh, there was a line at work. There was a line in here from the sea snake. Damn it. Oh, you either sail into the storm or sail around it.

[01:48:10] You do not wait for a storm to come to you. That was awesome. I want that tattooed on my body somewhere. Yeah. Damon's line and yeah, I just that stark contrast with the series and Lena and I'm like now

[01:48:23] I'm cheering on the fact that he's still marrying someone underage in today's terms inappropriate but way better. Maybe not politically better but. Alison and Reneira's seen the sep. Mainly because it looked like Alison she already

[01:48:41] seemed so much older. She was leading Reneira to pray. You know she tells Reneira that she she tells Reneira in her own way that Reneira should probably make the effort to speak to her father just like she told the series, you know maybe you should make the effort

[01:49:00] to speak to Reneira. So, you know there's a lot of care that she's taking and a leadership role that she I think is even unknowingly taking because she has you know it for me it was just

[01:49:16] I thought that Reneira was unwilling was unconsciously playing a leadership role in trying to mend to the two of them back together much like she mended that dragon the broken dragon from the first part of the episode. So, you know regardless of what happens in the future

[01:49:42] there is some real care due to a personal relationship that she has with both of them which is nice so alright so let's go into news and we have three news stories so. I'll take news about House of the Dragon from Hollywood reporter House of the Dragon renewed

[01:50:02] for season two at HBO after premiere ratings blow out. Very exciting we are beyond proud of what the entire House of the Dragon team has accomplished with season one says Francesca Orsi executive VP of HBO programming our phenomenal cast and crew undertook a massive

[01:50:23] challenge and exceeded all expectations delivering a show that is already established itself as must see TV. A huge thank you to co creator and executive producer George RR Martin and co creator and show runners Ryan Condal and Miguel Sapochnick there you go for leading

[01:50:49] us on this journey we couldn't be more excited to continue bringing to life the epic saga of House Targaryen for season two. The matter of when the show will return is a bigger question.

[01:51:02] The first season of dragon required 10 months of filming and a massive amount of post production visual effects work which began in January and is still ongoing. It will be difficult for the production to film and VFX another season by the end of 2023 so a 2024 return could be more

[01:51:24] likely so our watch begins too long. Yes I know it's really a long time. Number two um you want to take it away Rima? I would love to uh so this is from westeros.org

[01:51:44] George RR Martin talks rise of the dragon so he says if you enjoyed the illustrated coffee table book a world of ice and fire it's time to preorder the rise of the dragon a book that takes all

[01:51:57] the essentials of fire and blood boiled down into another beautifully illustrated book for your coffee table or library. The book is illustrated by Elio M Garcia and Linda Antonin Antonson who

[01:52:10] also did the world of ice and fire book so the quality and consistency will be there if you liked the first one they did. You can hear George RR Martin talk about it in the show itself on

[01:52:21] westeros.org and we'll also throw it up on the podcastica facebook page as well. Woohoo! I'm excited about that. That book looks amazing. Yeah I'm super excited. It comes out over 25th.

[01:52:35] Mm-hmm it's gonna be a good one. Okay our last piece of news is from uprocks who is the crab feeder from house of dragon? So Game of Thrones has always been a delicate mix of political maneuvering

[01:52:47] and gruesome violence and through two episodes spoilers ahead for the house of the dragon the name crab feeder has quickly become synonymous with both. First mention is someone interfacing interfering with shipping lanes the start of episode two the road press a first look at the

[01:53:03] character who appears poised to be a volatile person in the show first and the character whose moniker comes from a reputation of quite literally leaving his defeated foes on the beach to feed the crabs is actually named Pragueoss, Pragueoss Dráhar but as we saw in the second

[01:53:22] episodes open he's very serious about that reputation. So who exactly is he and what is his deal? In short he's a threat to the empire that's challenging Targaryen power at a time outsiders question

[01:53:33] its vulnerability. A prince admiral from Mir a free city in the western Essos crab feeder became a figurehead for a group of free cities called the triarchy who want to rid the step zones

[01:53:45] archipelago uh arp arpilago you know what I even look I even looked this word up to make sure that I didn't mess it up and I'm messing it up far from Kingsland of their thank you of their nagging

[01:54:00] pirate problem by taking control of the stepstones and creating a colony in Targaryen territory though they themselves have become a threat to the empire fans of the book may already

[01:54:10] know Dráhar's blah blah blah blah okay that's the end of that so now we are going to go to our listener feedback awesome I'll go ahead and start yeah we yeah we had some really we had twice as much

[01:54:28] feedback as we had uh from last week so thank you so much for all of your feedback and I love to hear it so please and Renee is a frequent listener she uh I just loved your feedback on

[01:54:44] handmade tail Renee so I'm so excited you're sharing the show with us um Renee says not only did the Targaryen's practice incest they were pedophiles seriously he thought he was doing something because he chose his daughter's friend I'm assuming she was 15 as well because that's how

[01:55:01] old they said Rhaenera was overall the episode was really good and I'm loving the dragons but I'm definitely going to have to get used to that clanking noise they were making it sounds robotic

[01:55:14] I'm thinking she meant oh the dragons oh she means the dragons yeah I always mispronounce this name and I apologize in advance uh I'm going to say Tiffany to Balt I have a dragon question

[01:55:30] in the episode it says Vagar is hiding in the narrow sea as it's too big for the dragon pit could it be that Vagar is the dragon that laid Daenerys' eggs not sure this was mentioned

[01:55:41] in the series I only read some of the books need to finish them um so I I think we talk a little bit about that in the book talk so if you're interested in hearing that part and I think it might

[01:55:58] be in the spoilery part if if I'm not sure if you want to hear the spoilers but um we do talk about a little bit of that and I think I answered on the Facebook page as well just a little bit

[01:56:08] of the legend part anyway but that's a really great question big mystery I think is to where the eggs came from yeah uh Alicia Stout loving how Reneira gets shit done just like Danny enough

[01:56:23] being a cupbearer already it's great that she has the grit to stand up for herself being 15 and also that is some badass dragon riding when Reneira got Daemon to give the egg back and then he threw

[01:56:35] it at her I wanted to yell at my TV oh crap don't do that don't drop it yeah me too yeah same Alma Contreras hey Alma we all know about child brides but seeing

[01:56:50] Lena next to Viserys was super cringy I don't know why I was surprised that Viserys chose Allison for his wife since I think that's what Otto set into motion when Reneira flew in through the clouds

[01:57:05] that was such a badass moment for me another great episode and the plot is thickening ooh we can't wait for the next episode agree me too G. Joe Puthia says OMG I absolutely love this

[01:57:21] show watching the episodes twice back to back seems to be a trend of the last two weeks so many layers what a complicated thing it is to be royalty like Otto said I do not envy the king

[01:57:33] the crab theater scene was classic Game of Thrones brutality which I love dragons love the dragons question did I don't know that Daemon had a dragon why did he go if it was a losing battle

[01:57:46] that sort of did not make sense hopefully there's a good explanation finally I think this show will end well because there is a book source all the way through been thinking about that a lot lol

[01:57:57] I think we all have yes my al-Martini says amazing episode I'm really getting into this and totally starting to nerd out but avoiding spoilers as I haven't read the books anyone else

[01:58:11] pick up on her fixing the broken dragon is this some foreshadowing with her trying to fix Viserys and Reneira's relationship although I see her coming between them we'll see Reneira is already showing more leadership than her father and is more wise than the cattle I loved her outfit

[01:58:28] with the dragon scales that she wears to dragon stone oh my gosh yeah that was odd yeah that all the cost yeah I want all the costumes yeah cosplay Lindsay Schlicht hey Lindsay I know this series is supposed to focus on the shitty patriarchy but

[01:58:49] it's pretty irritating that Reneira is being so disregarded if you are going to risk everything and name her heir shouldn't you at least be allowing her to participate in learning how to roll

[01:59:01] I know I shouldn't compare the two but she reminds me so much of Danny underestimated at every turn and by far the smartest and bravest person in the room I hope we get to see her and Syriac's

[01:59:14] blast Otto's punk ass to a fiery pit and soon Lindsay Yolts has a way with words yes he makes my skin crawl and if he's supposed to be this brilliant little finger type why on earth did he

[01:59:30] roll up to Damon's house with a few men hello enormous dragon it's not like Caraxes was a surprise dragon without Reneira showing up seems like he'd be barbecue speaking of which she and Syrax

[01:59:46] appearing out from the clouds was badass yes Allison and all her stank faces confuse me sometimes the face she made when Viserys asked her not to tell Reneira of their conversations

[02:00:00] why did that seem to upset set her she has to be aware that Reneira would not be happy about any of this seems she'd want to keep the secret too she's extremely hard to decipher does she want to be

[02:00:12] queen or is she simply doing what her dad says I find it a little strange that we didn't really see what drove Viserys to such a ridiculous decision to marry Allison I know he was understandably

[02:00:24] freaked out by the age of his other option but his daughter's best friend only a few old years older with literally nothing to offer in terms of power or money is absurdly stupid didn't we just watch a

[02:00:39] scene where Reneiris claims Viserys is no or Reney's claims Viserys is no full I hope we get more explanation how he came to this because it's not even clear that he actually loves Allison

[02:00:51] although I expected an entirely new song I'm not mad at the repeat intro the song is so iconic it just sets the mood so perfectly it's so fun to be excited about Sundays again

[02:01:05] you're here read agreed I love Lindsay's um feedback I think it's great we are usually very much in line with each other I find myself agreeing with Lindsay quite often she and she

[02:01:22] always cracks me up um and you know I she's talking about the decision to marry Allison I know that politically that was not the best decision but you know the high towers I mean Otto's

[02:01:36] a piece of crap but the high towers are a very noble family and they're from Old Town and Old Town is you know well it's the oldest city in Westeros right so and that's a big deal

[02:01:49] their family is a big deal and their house is a big deal so she does come from a very noble family now politically does it serve him very well maybe not as much as like Lenore but um

[02:02:00] you know their their house is still a you know their big name yeah yeah yeah it's not completely terrible right um okay so we have a few calls um so we're gonna get to those right now and first up we are going to hear from Greg

[02:02:23] hey Kristen hey Rima this is Greg um so uh episode two I really I really like the fact that we're getting time jumps um and not just time jumps but like significant time jumps like

[02:02:36] hey now it's been six months all right got it made it pretty pretty simple hey it's been six months since uh my mom died and so on and so forth um I I hope okay a little bit of spoiler-ish alert

[02:02:50] I saw that there was going to be another time jump uh before next episode I'm not gonna say how long it seemed like but it seemed like some of the characters were

[02:02:57] actually no shit older um I really am enjoying it um I'm not getting as in depth as you guys are but uh it's I'm really really digging it I had never seen Matt Smith in anything besides

[02:03:11] being the doctor and I love his acting in this I love his character arc um the the interactions between damn it the the two strong female characters the aunt and the damn it I can't

[02:03:30] remember their names this Villarin yeah no no whatever uh you know the the main blonde and her aunt who didn't the queen who never was um I thought they're like that interaction was was actually

[02:03:46] like pretty genuine and I liked it a lot um I'm just glad we're back to things like like awesome names like the king slayer and now crab feeder uh like those are that's that's good game

[02:03:59] of thrones core shit and um I'm here for it all right look forward to hearing you guys go a super in depth and uh to talk about all the stuff that I just kind of glossed over or missed

[02:04:10] all right thanks Greg it's great thank you Greg thank you Greg um okay and next we have Steve Steve hey remain christian it's Steve and this is going to be for House the Dragon episode

[02:04:29] due to yeah um thank you so much your coverage for the first episode so helped me I went back and rewatched it and was so much more better understanding it's such horrible English anyway

[02:04:42] uh and here we go with episode two hey look at that Matt Smith second build uh what is he calling the crab feeder the cat crab reader what these pirates are this is crazy I know

[02:04:53] I'm gonna have to wait to listen to the podcast and then probably watch this episode again Rene the dragon rider wants to go fight pirates on her dragon oh and she's not happy that being

[02:05:03] sent away the king it scared to face his own daughter 15 great hey is this Lord Corliss is he a Targaryen or what is he ew okay so they're not gonna cauterize oh what are they doing

[02:05:18] these maggots on his hand ew okay an auto high tower is the hand of the king right and now the king's hand is in maggots ew oh who is this vagar this other female dragon that's as big as

[02:05:33] what was the name it oh I can't that big gigantic dragon head in the skull uh is that a subtle nod to the game of thrones finale saying the men would put the realm to the torch

[02:05:45] if a woman was on the iron throne hmm wait so now yeah okay Matt Smith not David Tennant has stolen a dragon's egg taken a wife and I don't understand the politics of this wait so now

[02:06:02] the hand of the king is going to go attack the king's brother right is that what's happening here did he just call this a chrispen instead of christian oh this is Damon's dragon right

[02:06:18] what it's the princess on her dragon whoa he gave up the egg wow okay you're gonna have to explain all these politics this guy's talking about here this this guy who's not the hand of the king

[02:06:33] talking about lord Coralus and I'm going long I'm sorry I knew it I knew he was gonna go with Allison I knew it all right talk to you next week I love the I love the splice together version

[02:06:48] live steving yep live steving and everything is everything is oh wait oh wait it's the best thank you Steve that was so great I and thank you for your nice words about the the first episode

[02:07:05] I'm glad to you know know that if we've helped clear things up so that's really nice to hear thank you agreed very much agreed and we are back for week two of book talk again I just want to thank

[02:07:22] Archmister Remy Rennie well Rennie for coming to our aid once again from the citadel welcome again Rennie thank you very much happy to be with you yes thank you very much um so let's start so

[02:07:38] we're gonna do things a little differently um from here on out we got a really big piece of feedback uh this week and it was to keep our book talk into two different sections and the

[02:07:51] first section is going to be where we set where we touched on the book in this specific episode of the week that we are covering for this week it's going to be episode two the rogue prints

[02:08:02] and then once we're done with that and we're gonna get into some spoilery things that are going to happen later in the book we're going to let you know so that you can just press fast

[02:08:11] forward or you can press pause or if you know you're just a glutton for punishment you can continue on with us um so I'm going to turn this over to our um scribe here our wisdom

[02:08:24] wisdomus leader that's that's a word uh archmacer Rennie where would you like to begin uh well I wanted to mention something about the title of the episode the rogue prints and it is

[02:08:37] the title of a shorter version of this part of the story that was published in an anthology called rogues which was co-edited by georgia r martin and his very good friend gardener does

[02:08:54] what who they edited a number of book projects together in which um they invited other writers to contribute stories and for the anthology called rogues georgia r martin's contribution was the

[02:09:09] rogue prince which of course focused on daemon and told the first part of the dance the dragon's story so that was the um origin of this week's episode title um I also wanted to mention oh go ahead

[02:09:28] I was just gonna say did you notice I am sure you have that last week the episode title was a chapter of the book and this week it was the title of the novella or the short story yeah I hope that

[02:09:42] they continue with that trend yes me too and yeah there are plenty of opportunities for an episode title yeah plenty of chapters yes um so in fire and blood this week's episode covered about four

[02:09:57] pages of the text uh so uh many people have been commenting that the pace of the show was very fast but actually they've only covered the first 10 or so pages of the story in fire and blood

[02:10:14] and there's plenty left so uh I think the series could easily go on for 10 seasons if they continued at this pace wouldn't that be great that would be nice I would be I wouldn't I wouldn't be upset about

[02:10:28] that if it continues at this quality how's that yes as long as the quality that's always important and I think we have to remember the whole thing's already published they're never going to run out

[02:10:40] of source material for the dance of the dragons so that will help with uh the continuation of the series um so in for our first um segment here where we're only talking about the parts of the book

[02:10:58] that are in this week's episode three things that are changes from the book to the show which I think are very good changes that I wanted to bring up and the first is the egg so the way that

[02:11:16] uh the recovery of the egg that Damon has stolen goes in the show is very very different from the way it goes in the book and I think that the way that it happens in the show is great and solves some

[02:11:33] things in the book that are not as great so it first of all in the book my sariah was actually pregnant and in the book um Otto was not involved in the recovery of the egg and neither of course

[02:11:49] was Reneara because in the book she's eight years old at this point uh king vissaries simply commanded Damon to give back the egg and to return to his wife in the veil and Damon obeyed

[02:12:03] and that's all the text says um and Damon sent pregnant my sariah back to leis where she had been living previously and on the journey she loses the child during a storm and that makes Damon

[02:12:22] quote harden his heart unquote against his brother and quote brood on this succession and quote um what I like better about the show version is that it takes the opportunity to further develop the reneera Damon relationship with reneera reneera you know older than it is in the book

[02:12:45] and to show off the power of the dragon dragon's any excuse yes and it gives my sariah more agency as well and it leads to a better setup I think for the Damon Corlease alliance um that we see at

[02:13:04] the very end so I really liked the way that the show portrayed Damon stealing the egg and the sariah is getting it back a lot better than the very brief it's like a paragraph in the book

[02:13:17] yeah I think that um I think that given the fact that we have you know such limited text evidence for some of these scenes that we that the show runners get to have a little bit more creativity

[02:13:32] that to what you know this one paragraph really meant right and um I agree I agree I think that the entire scene on the bridge or the walkway of dragon stone was just it was perfection and

[02:13:49] I loved the dragons I love seeing the sizes of the dragons um and I really thought that that scene really showed kind of the depth of care that Damon has for reneera

[02:14:03] um for sure which if you read the book you know up until this point uh it's really it's really um it's really um what's the word I'm looking for they really tell the story of how Damon really

[02:14:20] cares for reneera yes and in last week's episode you only got just one little blip of it of him giving her a necklace so that intensity between the two of them when she's like just kill me now

[02:14:33] you know that was really that was really nice and impactful I agree yeah and and that she was the only one he would listen to like he she was the only one he would be willing to yield

[02:14:48] to there was no way he was gonna yield to Otto Otto was getting ready for uh caraxis so you know the fact that uh you know reneera had showed up to save all the blood shed uh that was surely

[02:15:04] going to happen I think had she not shown up um you know he was only gonna listen to her and uh it was a it was a really great scene and like said definitely definitely plays into the relationship

[02:15:16] to come mm-hmm yes uh speaking of relationships another difference yeah yeah speaking of relationships the other difference is um the development of the connection between the series and allicent so in the book there's you know people are trying to convince the series to marry

[02:15:40] lana and the text just says another woman had caught his eye he announced his intention to wed the lady allicent which makes it sound like she had no part in it whatsoever that she was just

[02:15:55] standing there caught his eye and he said oh i'm gonna marry her um pick you because remember we talked about last week um Otto had sent her to read to um old king jaharis yep not to the

[02:16:14] series so they they moved that from her reading to uh jaharis to moving to the seris so that allowed for some relationship developed between them um you know the show version is bad enough because

[02:16:28] she's 15 and he's in the series is older in the show than than he is in the book yeah in the book they say that he's not quite 30 right yeah so it's less gross but it's not less gross in the show

[02:16:45] it's more but allicent allicent is older in the book yeah she's like 18 she's 17 18 at that point yeah 18 and 29 is a lot better than 18 and 50 indeed or 15 and 50 yeah it's a lot better yeah

[02:17:03] however old you know viscera says in the show he looks very old he does yeah i yeah so the age difference in the in the book is i mean sorry and the show is worse than the age difference

[02:17:18] in the book but um the fact that the show does allow a relationship of sorts however creepy to to develop between them does give allicent more presence if not more agency at least more presence than she's given in the book where there's just a single sentence that says

[02:17:43] she'd caught his eye and he declared his intention to marry her i think he was a little bit more involved in that in the show although in the book um i did notice that they also uh well among

[02:17:58] that spread kind of the rumor that allicent had been more than more than friends with both jaharis and the series so it's interesting that that take wasn't given game of thrones

[02:18:17] is past and how gross and um sexual that they could be i'm surprised that that wasn't explored more in the first two episodes but happy that they let that go and i think i think they did because

[02:18:33] um well they couldn't have said anything about allicent and jaharis because that just didn't exist in the show and because they aged her down it would have been much harder and but they didn't they didn't say that that rumor had spread about her

[02:18:50] and the series and of course in the book that comes from mushroom and mushroom always has the most salacious version of events uh yes aka the better version yes yes almost always the better version yeah yeah

[02:19:12] and then what was your third one uh the third one is um letting raniera choose christin call for the kingsguard um so again there's a single sentence in the book that just says

[02:19:28] he was appointed to the kingsguard and raniera was seven at that time now she did choose him to be her sworn shield but she's not the one who appointed him to the kingsguard so he doesn't

[02:19:41] owe her anything um in for his kingsguard appointment in the book but it's very it's very clear that he was nobody all the other knights were from important families they all had their banners

[02:19:57] and their squires and he's just standing there in his dented armor and it was there was zero chance that he was going to be chosen from among that group had raniera not chosen him

[02:20:11] and so she has more agency we see that gives us the opportunity to see her reasoning and her thinking about what the ground should be for appointing somebody to the king guard

[02:20:22] kingsguard it makes her seem uh smarter wiser than um otto high tower who wants to make the appointment on political ground so i thought it was a scene that you know gave some opportunities

[02:20:36] the rest of what i have to say about that goes in the spoiler section yeah it shows that she has that she's looking ahead and that she's not looking for now um and she's looking ahead

[02:20:47] in a more sensible uh in a more sensible way as you said um i did notice in the show that um um that she chose christin cole and then he went to dragon stone with otto however in the small

[02:21:04] council meeting when viscera is announced that he was going to um mary allicent when she walked out christen followed right after her so i think between dragon stone and that small council meeting

[02:21:20] is probably when he became her sworn shield and we probably just didn't see it i think it was like an unspoken thing i don't know what do you think yeah i agree i i think that makes a lot of sense

[02:21:33] as an interpretation of the way that scene was choreographed yeah mm-hmm yeah that's about you rima anything for you the only thing i think that i can talk about in this section i think

[02:21:50] because i feel like i'm i'm leaning on certain things i'm afraid to say something that i shouldn't so i'll save it um but when uh we didn't really get lady lana's reaction uh to viscera's choosing

[02:22:06] allicent um we saw their interaction but you know in the book i remember she didn't seem quite bothered over the decision she was like yeah and that's for the spoil spoiler section okay yes so i'll

[02:22:22] save that and just leave it there that she she didn't seem too bothered and of course i'm sure you know just kind of like what we saw in in this in the show she seemed to be very much

[02:22:34] like just doing what her parents are telling her to do you know which is as a female you have no you know you just do what you're told and you're here you're going to marry this person whether

[02:22:44] you like it or not you know and she's just doing what you know her duty to her family uh but yeah she she was not bothered uh yes in the books particularly yes i'm excited to talk about that

[02:23:00] later yeah yeah okay so i had one thing uh before we move on to spoilers um and that's just and stop me if you think that this is you know going too far into it but between last week and this week

[02:23:16] we see a lot in correlate corleys that um he's really really concerned about the stepstones problem and for people that may not have read the book or people that um really are confused by this

[02:23:30] i kind of took a deep dive into it today just to see where i understood how this stepstones issue kind of came about um because it's spoken really fast especially um in last week's episode

[02:23:42] and then this week's episode so um i just thought that i would just kind of break this down just a little bit so um the free cities that have um kind of taken up post in in the stepstones

[02:23:53] are a part of a triarchy with um lease it's lease right lease that's lias some people say lease some people say lice i say lease i say lease so we'll go we'll say we're gonna say we're right

[02:24:08] george r r martin says say it however you want to say it i just love it that he does that i do but it's it's lease it's mere and then it's tyrosh and the kind of admiral leader of mirror is this

[02:24:22] crag viss drae har who is the crab feeder um who we see kind of we see a little bit more of him this episode so um so when they're talking about the triarchy last week well when core lease

[02:24:39] is talking about the triarchy he's really concerned about what's going on at the stepstones because they're making a move because they view the crown as vulnerable and um core lease who is basically

[02:24:52] the crown's navy who has their entire fleet he is losing his ships he is losing his men and the series being kind of unbothered by this is kind of creating that rift um that's already

[02:25:09] there correct like they already have the rift this is deepening it yes um and so i mean i don't have much because they didn't i didn't want to get too far into it but i do know that

[02:25:24] that the triarchy the free cities the stepstones i know that i know that that's a much bigger part of the story at least it's looking like it's going to be much bigger part of this story than the

[02:25:35] books than in the books um but also i just feel that it's important to understand exactly who this triarchy is where they come from and how the crab feeder um cragis drae har how he kind of

[02:25:54] fits into this scenario and i imagine we're going to learn more even next week so i agree one thing that um caught my eye when we saw the close-up of cragis is that he appears to have

[02:26:06] grayscale okay i was yeah i didn't know if it was grayscale or if it was just the scurvy yeah well you know he's wearing that odd helmet on his face and the skin on his face looks

[02:26:21] yeah maybe scurvy-ish but then there was a shot like of the side of his neck where it definitely looked like grayscale and i thought i wondered too that is interesting and something that's not in the

[02:26:33] book at all so i don't know where they're going with that yeah if that's if that's what it is and his mask i hope this isn't spoiler because i don't know i i don't know what it is but the mask

[02:26:44] that he was wearing looked like it was like it either like an old or broken sense of the harpy mask did that did you get oh interesting oh it does you're totally right it does i didn't

[02:26:55] i didn't see that but what now that you say it yes it just looks weird and and because the triarchy are um part of the free cities of like said uh lice mir and tyrosh you know the sins of the

[02:27:07] harpy are from marine so it may not be but i was like that looks like a i've seen that before or at least you know part of it look like almost like a fandom of the opera-ish version of the

[02:27:18] sense of the harpy mask or something and then yeah he had some sort of skin condition that looked like rescale and he had something going on some kind of pirate so if he may have been a marine

[02:27:28] and stolen that who knows exactly i guess he could have got in the got in the garbage you know someone threw it out he got it you know who knows um i okay i did have one other thing um and i don't

[02:27:43] think and stop me if it's spoiler and i'll have christin cut it out in editing um sir ryan red wine am i saying that right yeah in this episode had passed like that's how we started this uh episode

[02:27:58] and i i don't think this is too spoilery because i'm gonna talk a little bit about game of thrones or he actually um sir ryan red wine he wasn't specifically referenced in game of thrones he

[02:28:09] was but he was the lord commander of the kingsguard under king jaharis um and he was mentioned in a song of ice and fire in the novels he was inferred by some of the characters in the tv series

[02:28:25] it was mentioned that as children john snow used to play a sir ryan with rob stark who liked to be king there on uh targaryen brand starkey's dream of becoming a knight like sir ryan sansa stark

[02:28:37] fancied fancied being rescued by a brave knight like sir ryan so he's he's kind of mentioned a couple of times and i think also jayme lannister had considered at one time himself unworthy of being

[02:28:49] uh lord commander because it was once held by sir ryan red wine so i thought that was a nice little kind of callback because it was kind of glazed over a little bit we saw him just for a moment in the

[02:29:00] first episode and then it opened with the second episode here where he had passed in a sleep so i thought that was a nice call kind of call back that's really good yeah that's really great

[02:29:12] diving into those details because yes sir ryan red wine is um is held up as a paragon of nightly virtue and remains this um legendary figure generations later so yeah very nicely done rina oh thanks yeah

[02:29:30] well reading lots of reading lots of listening i could i could take a week and prep for the all never prepare yeah i took all day today i kicked everybody out of my house i'm like bye

[02:29:50] so i know that um and so now i think now we're gonna just kind of drift into spoilery information however i'm gonna start off with a subject that might not be spoilery

[02:30:06] so we can kind of decide um how that goes so that'll be like a nice little ease out i think because it is um it's really about kind of um core lease and the way that he made himself

[02:30:21] into who he is um because it was referenced it was referenced this is this is going to be spoilers for the for the sea snake series which is one of the ones that's in development well i'm glad because it's a good story yes doesn't say he deserves

[02:30:40] the all of that i i want to learn more and more about the sea snake and all of his adventures for sure so well so there are a few things at hand so one of them was the fact that um lana

[02:30:54] was talking to visceris about um when she mentioned vagar um and she said that the merchants at spice i i tried to i didn't write it down spice world spice market this goes all the way into spoilers

[02:31:10] and this was this was my dubious change from the books okay because well because the only reason why i wanted to bring this up was because lana said the words during their conversation when she

[02:31:23] said oh the merchant said that they can hear her song at spice what is it spice market what is it spice market spice town spice sound thank you spice town um i've been flipping through

[02:31:34] the pages going i know it's here like i can't find it um but at spice town and spice town you know is is um kind of a culmination of the sea snakes adventures and what he has kind of

[02:31:49] oh okay yes yes and so we're talking about that part yeah so what he has built um from you know claiming driftmark he he got this driftmark castle that was flooded and in ruins and he built

[02:32:04] a totally new tower for himself um much like probably i picture as probably like the iron islands or um the eerie something like that something that was high and off of the water

[02:32:17] and um with all of his traveling he had a um he had his regular um what was it he had his regular i i wrote it all down and apparently it i don't have it so you know that's great

[02:32:33] let me see if i can find your page now i'm mad at myself no i do i believe you it's just probably in the in your 20 pages somewhere well and i have many pages right it's like the dumbest

[02:32:46] thing in the whole world but um it's fine i was like oh i'll remember this is really interesting no um so i guess what i'm trying to say is that he had two different ports

[02:32:58] in a driftmark he had his regular port that was called something and then he had a spice town and spice town was where all of the um you know all of the silks and the food and the spices

[02:33:11] and everything kind of we weaved in and out um an important export and that's how he really got his money um and that he would he would go to all these distant places he tried to see if he can go around

[02:33:24] the wall around uh north of the wall and he couldn't um and he had to go back because it was all frozen over so it's so funny to read this because at the very end of game of thrones

[02:33:36] you know all i could think of was aria going what's list of wisterose and you're just like well uh why don't you ask uh corleys valerian because he kind of knows you know yeah maybe maybe you

[02:33:47] should do some reading instead of anything else that you've done um you know so it he he traveled so much and he really took his um his his birthright very very seriously and he made you know his

[02:34:05] ship the sea snake and he took it everywhere and he built this army he built no he built this navy he built this fleet of ships everything that like when he says at the end of this episode

[02:34:16] everything i have i built on my own on my back like when you read this story you know that that's true that he is the reason why he's successful the series couldn't possibly understand that daemon couldn't possibly understand that because they've been given this royal bloodline down you

[02:34:36] know hundreds of years and they and and just like uh corley said they're not dragon lords so everything that they've done they've done without dragons they're from old valeria they've got all the money

[02:34:49] they've got all the history um so i just think that it was really important to kind of know like they have kind of dropped in these little keywords into this episode of who the sea snake really is

[02:35:02] who corley's really is and i just think that that's really great it really proves that the writers are paying attention agree yeah they're they're really rolled building um yes with some subtleties there you know yeah hi tide castle he built i tide castle i tide yes

[02:35:28] yeah proud of them and they're the they're the richest family in west roce in this in this time period yeah right now more than ministers the um tyrell's uh even more than the you know the

[02:35:41] king's landing with the royal family they're the you know richest family so it's that's and he did that he did it that's all in his trading he made one journey to carth and brought back i think he had

[02:35:56] seven ships and four of them sank on the way or three of them sank on the way but with the remaining ships when he sold the goods that was the single act that made his family the richest

[02:36:09] in all of westeros and then he went back on several more voyages and just kept building that well yeah it was sad to see that all the elephants died uh yes oh i know yes i don't know what possesses

[02:36:25] you to fill ships with elephants but i know i mean i couldn't even imagine having ships come up with a bunch of dead elephants yeah it seems like a really bad idea to put elephants in ships that part made me very sad um so let's go into spoilers

[02:36:44] so there was more than i wanted to say in the spoilers section about let's do it christin coal and rinera yes oh yeah go i'm so sorry i just totally oh wait no are we in spoilers or

[02:36:55] we added spoilers i thought you just said we were in let's let's go let's go to spoilers perfect yeah yes we're going to spoilers yes and i there's i i want to return to christin

[02:37:05] colin rinera in the full spoiler section got it okay got it i'm with you now yes um so you know one of the things that i think about rinera actually choosing him for the king's

[02:37:20] guard and therefore making him someone giving him a position is that that just makes it all the more worse when he betrays her in the future yes um and i'm really looking forward to seeing how

[02:37:35] they handle the betrayal because it is one of the places where there's two versions given in the book and the show is going to have to decide which version it is because in one version when um

[02:37:51] uh reina reina why i always keep coming by the wrong name me to rinera when when rinera is pressured into marrying lainor and she you know she capitulates to her father and begs his forgiveness because

[02:38:07] he threatens to not make her make her not be air anymore if she won't marry him um something happens between christin coal and rinera that night according to septan ustis um uh christin coal went to rinera and begged her to run away with him to the free cities

[02:38:28] and uh you know so she wouldn't have to marry lainor and he declared his love for her and she said i'm a targaryen i'm not going to marry a selsword and so then he left and was you know

[02:38:41] her enemy ever sent ever after but mushroom says that it was rinera who went to christin coal uh with nothing on but a cloak dropped the cloak and said please take my maiden head my new husband

[02:38:54] won't care and christin coal was a virtuous knight um strong in his vows and he sent her away and um then was her enemy forever more uh so i am really interested to see how the show's

[02:39:12] gonna play that and i'm not sure which version i really want to see because both both versions are kind of terrible i think they could do both i think i think that they could try and make both the

[02:39:25] truth you know like where it happened once and then and then one of them changes their minds and then the other one is like no screw you or something and then oh interesting that double

[02:39:39] interesting truth kind of thing would really spurn christin coal to go to the green side yeah interesting i don't know yeah i can't wait to see what happens i like that he looks so dumb in

[02:39:53] that helmet though i mean can we just say that he looked so dumb in that helmet well i'm sure he leveled up when he when he got to the kingsguard uh you know yeah but yeah yeah it'll be interesting

[02:40:09] it's it's it's i like what they've done so far with the differences that they've done and the choices that they've made in the input from um george r martin so it'll be fun to see what

[02:40:20] they do but yeah that's gonna be it's gonna be a big one the other change that i want to talk about in the spoiler section is um the one that i think is pretty dubious and that's

[02:40:32] vagar and lana lana is already a dragon rider at the time that um she's proposed as a potential bride for visceris and she's an avid dragon rider and and she claimed vagar and vagar

[02:40:50] is queen visenya's dragon agon the conqueror's sister wife visenya yes visenya a black dark sister and rider of vagar right yes and little lana claimed vagar was already riding at the time that um

[02:41:10] visceris you know might have decided to marry her yeah um and you rima you alluded earlier to the fact that she was not upset when visceris announced he wasn't gonna marry her um and the

[02:41:25] maester at driftmark wrote her ladyship shows far more interest in flying than in boys yes and it would have been really interesting to have visceris who was who only rode valerian

[02:41:43] one time before he died the for valerian died and so he and he's not been a dragon rider for all these years and i think he's a little wary of dragon riders to have him maybe rejecting lana

[02:41:59] because he doesn't want to marry a dragon rider because she'd be scary to him because she'd have a dragon and they missed that opportunity so the change is only okay with me if what they're

[02:42:10] gonna do is show us lana claiming vagar that's what i'm hoping i'm hoping that they drop this when they're when uh her visceris are having their little conversation she asks about vagar and i was

[02:42:23] like yeah yes yes yes this is vagar so that i'm hoping that um somehow now that she doesn't have to marry visceris she's like i think i'm gonna go find vagar or i'm gonna figure out how to you

[02:42:35] know go get vagar and bond with with vagar i it would be so awesome um yeah to see that because yeah vagar is a very important dragon in the history yes show and with lana and things to come

[02:42:50] i can't wait to see vagar i think i think she was shown in uh some of the trailers or teas or somewhere just a glimpse it's gonna be so cool because she's a big dragon two dragons so far

[02:43:05] yeah that's right i think we need to see more yes time for more definitely a lot uh a lot more room for dragons i'm i'm ready um but what we got this episode was really great though too

[02:43:20] but i i'm definitely excited to see vagar vagar is the largest living dragon at this time since ballerian had passed and as you said reny she's uh one of the original um set of dragons from old

[02:43:33] balleria that was part of the conquest and oh man is that's gonna be awesome can you see tiny little lana the tiny little girl we saw on this massive dragon it's gonna be fantastic and that child actor

[02:43:47] is so ethereally beautiful oh my gosh she's gonna be a gorgeous dragon rider yeah and she and they covered her with a terrible wig i know i'm really upset about the wig i'm really i

[02:44:00] comment on it every week at home you know one of the things that about the wig yeah that i saw somebody um commenting about is that one of the problems with all of the targaryen wigs is

[02:44:11] that they read as gray rather than silver and so they make everybody look old and i so i was watching when i did the my episode rewretch this time and they really do kind of look gray and they

[02:44:26] really should be more platinum and everybody they would look better on everybody if they were more platinum i don't know why they can't get that right wigs aren't hard i mean of all the things

[02:44:38] not if you have to budget for them hard i was gonna say with with the level of 16 million dollars in episode yeah with the with the with the attention to detail with the costume because

[02:44:49] i think the costumes are just brilliant and on point and you can see that attention to detail with the with the ladies dresses the armor uh like daemon's armor and such it's like come on man

[02:45:02] let's let's get something on those wigs you know yeah spend a little bit of money yeah just a little bit i mean just make it less you know um american revolution and and natural yeah yeah that was all of my book comments

[02:45:24] i'm so good um what do you have rima well and i again i didn't know i i feel like i was kind of writing the line as far as what i considered spoilers and what i didn't but we were talking

[02:45:35] about dragons and i wanted to kind of mention the egg that daemon stole in this episode which belonged to dreamfire uh who who was mentioned in this episode and dreamfire is a beautiful silver

[02:45:49] silver blue dragon she hasn't been seen yet um and of course we knew the importance of what that egg meant since it was chosen for renairs younger brother who who had passed um young balon um so

[02:46:03] dreamfire was a she dragon ridden by princess reina targaryen um she was a slender dragon her she was primarily pale blue with silver markings um and let's see reina targaryen was 12 when she

[02:46:20] started writing her so i thought that was a fun little you know kind of callback um there was some discussion and the reason i wanted to really i mean i probably mentioned her again

[02:46:31] because she was in this episode um or talking about anyway her egg but what i thought was interesting is the theory and i'm interested to get your opinion rene uh because there's

[02:46:44] question about where did dany get her her dragon eggs where did drogon regal the sarin come from and in in a song of ice and fire um magister allerio tells her the dragons come from or

[02:47:01] the eggs came from the shadow lands beyond a sigh i don't know if i'm pronouncing that right shy shy thank you i'm terrible i'm gonna pass it i'm gonna stink at this because i've written

[02:47:13] this pronounce everything um but so we we know or at least legend has it that dragons did come from the shadow lands which could be possible like maybe they did come from the shadow lands as he

[02:47:25] says however there's a story uh from the books and it's in fire and blood we're not in in that timeline yet but um there was in fire and blood dream fire had laid multiple um eggs throughout

[02:47:43] the time and during the time that princess reina was writing dream fire she was agon's granddaughter she fled see she got i guess reina got kind of restless right um and she went to

[02:47:58] was it fair isle there was a big story about how um they took her eggs was it elissa farman i know i'm kind of all over the place here elissa's apartment reina's friend elissa farman

[02:48:11] wanted to get away from westeros she stole three eggs from the hatcheries and dragon stone and she was able to flee to bravos and and she sold the eggs right it's assumed that the

[02:48:23] eggs were dream fires she sold the eggs used the money to get her own boat and sail away and neither elissa or the dragons were ever returned and there were no reports of any eggs hatching

[02:48:34] abroad so what what do you think about that potential theory curious oh i i i i think that um that is definitely where allerio got the eggs that he gave to danie they didn't come from ashai

[02:48:52] they were the the eggs that elissa farman stole that that's the theory that i believe wouldn't that be so cool you know to know that that's where they came from um one of the targaryen dragons

[02:49:07] of old from dream fire yeah so yes that's an i i like that that i like that a lot yeah there's there's a lot more to that there's you could go read that that was just a quick

[02:49:22] you know summary part of it there and i was kind of skipping around i was losing my place here because my notes are everywhere so but i love the feeling but i just thought i'll you know while

[02:49:31] we were talking about um dream fire being mentioned and i you know because i was never satisfied with the answer that we got like as far as like where her eggs came from i think it would be fun

[02:49:41] but who knows well so um i think that um this this particular egg that we see in this show would have to be from a different clutch of dream fires eggs because elissa farman had already

[02:49:58] stolen those three eggs and sailed away and you said she was never seen again and she wasn't but coreleys valerian may have seen her ship the sun chaser in um a shy oh boy so that would be the last

[02:50:19] evidence of her if that was the sun chaser that he saw he believed that it was the sun chaser but there's there wasn't um verification of that i love it so there is a connection

[02:50:32] between coreleys and elissa farman i love that yes thank you thank you for yes yes yes so it's all linked together i know and thank you for pointing that out i should have kind of started

[02:50:45] added that fact that this is before the time that we're in right now all of those events had happened before this particular event in dream fires egg um had already taken place but um

[02:50:57] that would make that would make um denaris's dragons siblings of the egg that we saw in this episode yeah that's very cool like that's really really neat i love how it's just all connected you know

[02:51:17] it's it's just when when it's all kind of you know brought up in these different parts and you just get really excited about all the information that's out there so that you can make those connections

[02:51:27] it's really fun yep so let's see anybody else have anything else no i don't yeah i don't either everything else is kind of for the episode discussion yep i think i think that covers

[02:51:47] i mean i could talk for days as i always say but i think that's a good place just all right all right perfect all right well thank you so much to archmester renny all the

[02:51:59] way from the citadel and we will see you next week with more book talk thank you thank you all bye bye all right so next week on the house of the dragon we will be covering season one episode three

[02:52:21] uh of house of the dragon tentatively titled second of his name um i do want to say thank you to wendy um for being here i think that you are just such a great addition to our conversation

[02:52:35] tonight and you as always were just wonderful and knocked it out of the park so thank you so much for joining us tonight thank you wendy for having me and i would love to dish anytime with you lovely

[02:52:50] ladies on dragons yay yay thank you and if any of you would like to dish with us you can always leave feedback in this way so you can leave your feedback at our podcastica facebook page we

[02:53:09] post weekly feedback threads so every sunday we're going to put up a post for that episode we'd love to hear from you um or you can leave feedback by email at dragon castica at gmail.com and you

[02:53:24] can also find uh Strange Indeed uh the yellow jackets handmaid's tale um the walking dead cast and other great podcasts at podcastica.com so all right that is our show thanks for listening everyone until next time i'm rima i'm christin and i'm wendy direct press