4: "Second of His Name" (S1E3)

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[00:07:47] 15. Second of His Name S3E3, Dragon Cast, Podcastica 16. Second of His Name S3E3, Dragon Cast, Podcastica grace, but if the gods did wish to show their favor and kind of leaves it there.

[00:08:53] So it seems pretty clear at least that for our characters here in this show that this white heart is a symbol of royalty. So I think that's important there. So what exactly does the white heart symbolize in this episode?

[00:09:10] So High Towers of course, he's really peddling this whole white heart legend to the king because he wants his grandson Prince Aegon to be his next heir. And so if that stack is a message, you know, it's pretty clear what ideas that he has about it.

[00:09:33] Another type of symbolism that the white heart could also represent is Princess Reneira, you know, being the one who's destined to be the next ruler. The white heart does appear to her later in like kind of towards the middleish end of the episode there.

[00:09:55] And the stag that ends up coming up for Prince Aegon's name day, the one that the series ends up killing is just a regular brown stag. And I think that there's, you know, a lot of meaning there, you know, as far as, yeah, how that appears to her.

[00:10:22] And also some symbolism, I think, where Princess Reneira, you know, she's not opposed to getting her hands dirty. We saw that when she killed the boar. But in letting the white heart go, she I think is showing that she has this poise

[00:10:43] that maybe her father does not to be maybe a stronger ruler than her father. And she chooses not to kill the animal. She tells Kristen Cole to put a sword away. And it seems a little that unlike the series, you know, Reneira does choose to value the

[00:11:02] wonder of their realm. And but I think there was also a choice there as well because in not claiming that prize is her own where she could have said, yes, let's hunt it and kill it and take it back to camp.

[00:11:17] That would have then kind of laid to rest doubts that we are seeing in this episode about her being named as air, that this would have been maybe, you know, concrete evidence that she should be the air and not Aegon.

[00:11:35] But I think that also in her letting it go is, I don't know, maybe that's a book spoiler. So maybe I'll just talk about that later. That might be too much. I feel now that I'm rereading my notes, it might be too much.

[00:11:52] Sometimes my notes go from episode straight into book stuff. So I'll pause on that. But yeah. But what did you think about that as far as the the white heart that we saw and kind of how that played out? Yeah, I agree with you.

[00:12:07] And one of the things that I noticed is that when Viserys comes into the clearing and sees that it's just a brown ordinary brown stag that they have captive, the camera closes focuses close up on his face. And he almost looks relieved. Yeah.

[00:12:27] Because if it had been, he says later that he had had doubts about naming Reneire air and if that had been the white heart, he might have taken that as a sign that he should have changed his who he named as his

[00:12:45] air, but because it was just a brown stag, ordinary stag that kind of lets him off the hook. Yeah. And he doesn't have to take it as a sign. And so you saw that relief come on to his face. I agree. Yeah.

[00:13:00] It was, it was pretty clear because he struggled a lot in this episode for sure. Yeah. I thought that was beautiful. I know I even on my second watch, knowing what was coming is still, I got

[00:13:15] very emotional in that scene with Reneire air when, when the white heart came up over that clearing there and was so close to them and seeing how she made that eye contact. That was so impactful. Just a beautiful scene. Really. So I thought it was great.

[00:13:34] And I love that symbolism. The show's so heavy in symbolism. Yes, it definitely is. Okay. That was really great. How about your number four? Blood. I started with fire and now I'm going to blood. I like it. That is, yeah, I managed to get fire and blood.

[00:13:59] And that is the, the parallel bloody faces of Reneire and Damon. So when the bore comes after Reneire and Kristen Cole stabs it and it's down, but then it starts moving. And Reneire realizes it's not dead.

[00:14:22] She pulls out her dagger and just stabs it and stabs it and stabs it. And she's getting all of her rage out in that action. And then she, her face is all bloody.

[00:14:35] And then when we see her later, when the white heart comes, we see her first from behind and there's blood in her hair and there's still blood in the side of her neck. She seems to have wiped her face, but she's still got, you know, blood on her

[00:14:52] neck and her shoulders. And then at the end, the last shot that we see is Damon really covered in blood from killing Kragas. And Reneire covered in blood, face covered in blood, Damon face covered in blood, I think just really points out the parallels between them and is

[00:15:18] drawing a connection between Reneire and Damon. And they have some similar personality traits. And I think that that parallel was not accidental. Again, I 100% agree with you. I think that parallel with her coming into camp, Damon, after he had just

[00:15:52] slaughtered the crab feeder, definitely on purpose, definitely intentional. And you know, there's a lot of similarities between those two, between Reneire and Damon. You know, Viserys was kind of not really joking, but talking with Reneire about Jason Lannister and, you know, him being prideful and arrogant.

[00:16:22] And he's like, why? That's why I thought, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but you know, like, this is why I thought you'd get along so well because, you know, your, your personalities are kind of similar. And it's like, well, a lot of similarities between Reneire and Damon as well.

[00:16:36] And I think they recognize that in each other is probably why they have such a, like the type of relationship that they have, you know, where, you know, they seem to really see each other and get each other and respect each other.

[00:16:47] And after all, Reneire is the only person Damon would ever yield to, like we saw in the previous episode with the dragon's egg. So yeah, definitely that parallel was so on purpose, I think as well. Great scenes. Yes. Great scenes. Yeah.

[00:17:05] And something about, you know, you were talking about Matt Smith and how well he's doing as Damon Targaryen. He's really just putting life into that character. I mean, he is just like, I imagined him from the book, you know, we

[00:17:16] get all of this, you know, from the book and, and he is really taking that for me anyway, and really putting it onto the screen, really putting some character breathing life into this character, I should say, for me.

[00:17:31] But I tell you, you know, I don't know what it is. I maybe I need more therapy, but something about seeing men covered in blood is just very exciting to me. Every time I had happened a game of thrones to Jon Snow just covered

[00:17:47] in blood, I'm just like, okay, I don't know what this is, but I like it. Anyway, but yeah, I think definitely intentional parallel. Agreed. Yes. And they're both being shown in the context of violence. And that may have future implications.

[00:18:16] There may be more violence in both of their worlds. I think you're probably right about that. I like it. Anything else that you want to say about that point? No, that was it. Okay. To you. All right.

[00:18:33] Well, my next point, I wanted to just talk in general about the King's Hunt. Just, just because we haven't gotten to see anything like this before in the game of thrones world. So the whole purpose of the King's Hunt was to celebrate Prince Aegon's second name day.

[00:18:55] He's two years old, which we haven't even said yet. There was a bit of a time jump, you know, in case anyone, you know, who was watching didn't quite get that. Or if they were maybe confused as to, you know, what happened or, you know,

[00:19:08] anything there has been some time pass since we saw Viserys make the announcement. He was going to marry Allison instead of Lenora. So they are married. They've had their first child who's two. Allison's heavily pregnant with another child. So we're now in this time jump.

[00:19:30] And I would believe, well, Viserys said it that Reneira is now 17 or seven and 10, as he said. So yeah, this King's Hunt, you know, is supposed to be for Aegon's second name day, but it seems like a lot of what's going on, at least to a lot of

[00:19:51] the courtiers that are participating in the King's Hunt seem to think that this is going to be when Viserys is going to name him Aegon as his heir over Reneira. So there's kind of a double kind of celebration, if you will, that they

[00:20:12] think is seem or is going to be happening here. But not just that piece of it. I don't want to go too far into that because I know we're going to talk more about that, but just it was for me to see this whole setup

[00:20:26] was really great because this is what I thought I would see when you have the King, the King of the Realm going on a hunt. There's all this pomp and circumstance, you know, these big tents and everybody's

[00:20:39] there and, you know, all of, um, I'll, you know, everybody's showing up, you know, and making a big deal about it. And what was really exciting for me is if the show will go this far just

[00:20:52] for the killing of a deer, imagine what they're going to do later. You know, for events that I won't mention here that are to come, you know, if they're willing to show us this really makes me excited for what's

[00:21:04] to come that they'll do this just for a hunt. But absolutely. Yeah. Because they really put a lot into this, which was great to see it. So it's what you picture in your head when you're talking about these Kings going on a hunt.

[00:21:20] Now, uh, the reason, when were the reasons I bring this up that this whole pomp and circumstance of what we saw and why I was really excited about it. Because maybe not everyone knows, um, that George R.R.

[00:21:34] Martin had always said that his biggest complaint about Game of Thrones had nothing to do with its later episodes. It was actually a scene in the very first season. And I can see you shaking your head. I know, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I do.

[00:21:51] Back in 2020, um, uh, George R.R. Martin said where we really fell down in terms of budget was my least favorite scene in the show all eight seat in all eight seasons King Robert goes hunting. So I had these same thoughts.

[00:22:07] So go back in your memory to season one of Game of Thrones, uh, King Robert Baratheon goes on the hunt with his younger brother, Renly his squire Lancel and his head bodyguard, Cerberus and Selmy. And this it's super short, right?

[00:22:21] You know, the scene is just shows the four of them walking through the woods alone and what Martin said. No, no horses. Just the four of them, you know, like we'd see today, you know, just a couple of couple of fellas walking around in the woods, you know.

[00:22:38] Uh, well, what Martin said, uh, he says for guys walking on foot through the woods, carrying spears and Robert is giving Renly shit in the books. Robert goes off hunting. We get word he was gored by a bore and they bring him back and he dies.

[00:22:53] So I never did a hunting scene, but I knew what a royal hunting party was like. There would have been a hundred guys. There would have been pavilions. There would have been huntsmen. There would have been dogs. There would have been horns blowing.

[00:23:06] That's how a king goes hunting. He wouldn't have just been walking through the woods with three of his friends holding spears, hoping to meet a bore. But at that point we couldn't afford horses or dogs or pavilions.

[00:23:18] So I think it's safe to say that in this episode, I think they kind of gave Georgia R. Martin, uh, what he was hoping for. And again, definitely budget constraints, you know, Game of Thrones and that first season did not have the budget.

[00:23:30] You know, it's hard to kind of come down on it too hard or anything. Who knew what the show was going to be? Right. So it's, it's hard to judge it, but, um, I was really excited because his words were exactly what I thought.

[00:23:44] If I'm thinking a king is going on a hunt, this is what I would expect to see. So I thought it was great to see. Uh, and I thought it was interesting that, um, this just happened to be what George R. Martin also wanted to see.

[00:23:55] So it's cool that he got, I hope he was happy. I haven't seen a reaction from him on that, but, uh, at least in 2020, that's what he wanted. Oh yeah. I'm sure that he, uh, likes this version much better. I'm sure it does.

[00:24:11] So yeah, I just thought it was great. It was just fun and it was, um, even there was a lot of politicking and stuff going on, uh, you know, and, um, you know, some insecurities from Reneira and doubts from the series and indecisiveness and things like that.

[00:24:26] It was still just kind of like a fun side of, of things. And I'm glad they're kind of bringing that little bit of a balance, uh, to things because, you know, we had the battle later. So it was a nice little balance.

[00:24:36] That's some, you know, interesting, um, you know, side things, uh, happening. And then you get like that, uh, you know, dark, heavy, bloody battle. So I thought it was pretty cool. I liked it. Um, I, I thought one, I agree with everything you said, and I thought

[00:24:52] one additional thing about this, which is for anybody who, you know, I suppose there are people who are watching House of the Dragon who never watched Game of Thrones, but for anybody who watched Game of Thrones,

[00:25:05] uh, this hunt has got to remind you of that hunt in season one of Game of Thrones. And so it may make you nervous that Viserys may get killed by the stag. And because Robert got killed by the boar in, in that hunt.

[00:25:23] And, uh, it doesn't seem like, um, Reneira is quite ready to inherit. So, uh, for as indecisive, indecisive as Viserys is, it doesn't, it wouldn't be a good thing for him to die right at this moment.

[00:25:43] And I was actually nervous when he was walking up to that stag because he was so tentative and so off balance in the stag is thrashing its head around. And I thought, that stag's going to gore him if he doesn't stab it quickly. Or stomp him. Yes. Uh-huh.

[00:25:59] Got loose cause I thought, oh, what if they don't have the ropes? Secured, what if there's not enough men to hold it? And, and I, I felt the same. I had a fear it might get loose or something and stomp him or clobber him or something. Yeah.

[00:26:14] That would not have been good. Yeah. That's great. Okay. What is your next point? Uh, the really nice callback, uh, in the godswood when, uh, you know, Viserys says, said, uh, you know, where is Reneira and Allison goes out to find her.

[00:26:40] And, uh, she finds Reneira in the godswood with a book, which is where we saw the two of them in the first episode back when they were friends. Um, and, uh, the singer is, um, playing a song for Reneira that Reneira makes,

[00:27:03] keeps making him repeat over and over again. And that song is about Nymeria. I thought so. Yeah. Yes. Um, I really like the way that they're keeping mentions of Nymeria who was, you know, the ruler of her people in relation to Reneira because in the,

[00:27:30] you know, the ancient history of Westeros, um, Dorne actually, which isn't technically part of the seven kingdoms at this point, but on the continent of Westeros, there is this legendary female ruler. And so there's, it's no wonder that Reneira wants to hear the song about

[00:27:53] Nymeria over and over again because it's a precedent of a female ruler, which has got to give her some hope that she could also be a female ruler. Um, and it's also a little bit of internal advertising because 10,000

[00:28:13] ships is one of the potential spinoff shows for the song of ice and fire, send cinematic universe, um, which would be a show about Nymeria. That would be super cool. Yeah. Maybe a little, little self advertising there because they, they talked

[00:28:34] about her in the first episode and the story and then yeah. And not in this song too. So nice little placement. Exactly. But I also, but also a good story. So yeah, it would be cool. It would be. Yeah.

[00:28:51] But this scene also shows us what has happened in these three years since the time jump because they were in that same godswood as friends talking together about the story of Nymeria and now, um, they are very much at odds with one another. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:15] A lot of, a lot has taken place in that amount of time and yeah, it's such a contrast to see, and you said it really nicely in the first episode when they're having that really nice moment, you can see how close they are,

[00:29:29] you know, uh, sharing time and kind of studying over their books and, you know, Allison being more serious and, you know, Rene, you're a, you know, kind of just nope, I'm good right where I'm at, you know, and I'm not interested in, in studying or anything.

[00:29:44] Uh, to where they are today, where Allison goes so far as to kind of overrule her a little to get, um, the musician to, you know, leave them, you know, kind of playing the queen hand. Um, so yeah, you definitely see the aftermath and, you know, it's,

[00:30:05] it's kind of sad because, you know, episode two, we saw that betrayal that Rene felt at that episode when her father announced he was going to marry her and it was not only the betrayal from her

[00:30:18] father for him not telling her, she was all being led to believe he was going to announce, uh, to be betrothed to Lenora, uh, Valerian. Uh, but also that betrayal from Allison who, you know, uh, had never said anything about any of the meetings that she'd had

[00:30:36] with her father and you know, that was her best friend. Um, and I think also, you know, I don't know that we've talked about it so much, uh, just cause I don't know, it just didn't come to me at the time.

[00:30:48] But you know, I think at least from Rene aside, maybe even a possible love interest, you know, from Rene, I definitely get those vibes. I don't know if maybe, I don't know if it's from Allison so much. I know that they were super close and Allison was very

[00:31:03] close with her and it still, I think feels that towards Rene or Rene or not so much to Allison. Generally she's not, um, she's bottling it up. If anything is still there. Um, and you know, Alice, Alice is still being very passive at

[00:31:20] this point, but I think she's definitely trying to make some efforts to mend things between Rene and the series. Um, I think she is. Yes. Um, she's being portrayed quite sympathetically. Um, and, uh, I think she is, uh, making a big deal of

[00:31:41] making an effort to try to reconnect with Rene and also to kind of represent Rene's interests with the series. So, you know, that's very interesting. But Rene is having none of it. She's mad. She's just mad. And she's not going to accept any, um, effort on Allison's

[00:32:06] part to reconnect. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite a stark contrast to see where they were before and to see where they're at, you know, now. Um, yes. And that one, one of the things I think they're doing so well

[00:32:22] in this show is that they are creating these little scenes and they're creating all of these scenes. None of them are in the book. These are all scenes created for the show. Um, these little, little scenes where there's not

[00:32:37] necessarily a lot of action that happens, but just this little interchange reveals so much about both of these characters and about the state of the relationship between the two of them. It's very economically done storytelling. Very well said. I, I agree. They're giving us these nice little breadcrumbs.

[00:33:02] Uh, so we're able to kind of pick up very quickly on the state of things and the differences, uh, from episode two to where we are today and with, and with the time jump. Um, yeah, I like that. Well, Allison and Raniera were actually my next point as

[00:33:22] well. And I've, oh no, the silly fact. Well, I moved it a little bit because we, you had brought up all just flip, flip it there and just add my two cents to what, to what you said. Um, but I do think it was interesting also seeing how

[00:33:38] Allison was like you said, looking out for Raniera's best interests and, and seem to be resistant to what her father is saying about, you know, Aegon who should be, hey, he's the king's firstborn son. He, he rightfully so he is the heir and Allison seems

[00:33:57] very resistant to that and is still very loyal to Raniera. You see her quite a few times stepping up for Raniera when they're all in that little gossip circle, you know, she speaks up for her, she speaks up for her, uh, in front of her father.

[00:34:14] Um, she's done it for, or she's done it with Viserys and even when Raniera is not around to hear it, you know, which I, you know, it's just very interesting what they're doing with her character. I know, I think, I think I'm going to have more

[00:34:26] to say in book talk, um, about the comparisons, um, in her character on the show versus, um, who she is in the book. But, um, I find it very interesting and you know, and then this first half that we get of Raniera was just

[00:34:42] all about her insecurities, you know, at her being the heir now that Aegon is born and not just Aegon, but another baby on the way, which they don't know, you know, what, what that will be a boy or a girl.

[00:34:55] If it's going to be, you know, the heir and the spare kind of situation. But, you know, it was just very interesting to see both of them and their relationship and how it's kind of deteriorated. So yes. Very good. Uh, all right. What's your next point?

[00:35:12] Uh, my next point is dark sister. I finally got my close up of dark sister. I was thinking of you when we got that. I was like, yes, ready. It's going to be so happy. I know I was thrilled and I thought of you. It was glorious. Yes.

[00:35:35] They, they, they really, you know, did a close up on the, the hilt and the cross guard and the length of the blade. That was awesome. Um, but the circumstances under which we got that close up of dark sister, uh, was when Damon was faking his surrender.

[00:36:02] And so my first thought the first time I watched the episode was, oh, there's my close up of dark sister. But wait, it's when Damon is going to surrender dark sister to pirates. This is not right. But then I was like, maybe even a little bit more

[00:36:21] surprised when it turned out that he was counter fitting his surrender and he was using that as an opportunity to, uh, attack. And I, so I think it's well established at this point that Damon cheats that Damon is really not

[00:36:41] honorable because in the tourney in the first episode, he cheated when he tripped the horse. That was Gwane Hightower, who's horse he tripped. Yep. And that is, that is not, that is not not honorable. That is not nightly behavior to trip your opponent's

[00:36:59] horse in order to defeat them. Um, and, uh, here he is, you know, uh, the white flag of surrender and surrendering your sword. Those are parts of a code of honor, a nightly code of honor. And he just uses that, uh, in a very dishonorable kind of way.

[00:37:25] And so, uh, he's really well established as someone who doesn't care about proper codes of behavior and is willing to flout them, uh, in front of anybody. I mean, he does that, um, the cheating in the tourney for in front of everybody for him, them

[00:37:48] to see and then, um, here, um, you know, in the after the episode in the about the episode bit afterwards on on HBO, um, I can't remember whether it was Ryan Condal or Miguel Sapochnick. One of them said that he, he was made so

[00:38:07] furious by, uh, Viserys offering help to bail him out that he was actually just going on a suicide mission there. Yep. Yep. Like Viserys said, he'd rather die than accept help from his brother. And that's, I think what he was doing. Yeah.

[00:38:31] But he's willing to die dishonorably by faking his surrender so he can take out as many people as he can in the course of getting himself killed. So I think that just tells us a great deal about Damon's character. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:38:49] We're, like you said, we're learning more and more about Damon and his character and who he is and what he's willing to do. And really just, you know, thinking or living his life that the rules just don't apply to him. Yeah.

[00:39:06] And regardless of the situation, you know, like he said at the tourney in front of everyone, a friend of his brother and King's landing, he, you know, acted very dishonorably in the tourney and that was in front of everyone. And then I think we talked about it's like,

[00:39:20] well, what's everyone going to do? He's the, the brother of the King. He's the prince. Yeah. What are they going to do? They're not going to do anything. They're all just going to frown and be like, oh man, that, that he shouldn't have done

[00:39:31] that, but they're not going to say it out loud. And then, you know, on the battlefield, he's willing to do the same thing. Rules don't quite apply to him in his mind. He's going to do what it, what it takes in his mind.

[00:39:45] You know, and of course, yeah, I think he did see this as a suicide mission. I don't think he saw it as, as getting out. He would have rather died than, you know, then accept help from his, his brother at

[00:39:56] this point and take out as many men on his way out really. And he was so angry. And I mean, I felt so bad for that messenger. I know. I was, I was sitting there thinking, I was like, oh, he's never heard, don't kill the messenger, you know?

[00:40:13] Because then he just wailed on that guy. That's how angry he was. And he just, gosh, you could see it, you know, hitting the, you know, just wailing on the messenger like that, rowing his, you know, this little boat all the way over to go do what

[00:40:28] he did. I mean, he was pissed. So. And this was set up by an earlier conversation. Their Corleis and his brother, Vamond and his son, Lenor, are having a war conference and Damon lands Caraxes in a beautiful shot of Caraxes land. Beautiful.

[00:40:55] And then walks up and it's not clear to me anyway exactly how much of what they were talking about. Damon actually heard. But what Lenor had suggested is that somebody needed to go in and sacrifice themselves in order to draw the triarchy soldiers

[00:41:17] out of the caves that they're hiding in. And, you know, that in the end is what Damon ends up doing, whether they all agreed to that plan and Damon just went and did it or Damon just stalked off and nobody knew where he was going

[00:41:34] and then they figured it out and took advantage of what he was doing to to follow up with that plan. But that was that was the way it works out was set up early in the in the episode in that conversation. Very well done, very well done.

[00:41:57] Well, I'll. I'll add to that because obviously Damon frigging Targaryen was going to be one of my points, you know. I love as you were just talking about Vame on Valerian saying show me the night who will march into all that hell pit nephew and I will show

[00:42:16] you a madman. Well, that's what we got. Damon Targaryen. It's in. Yeah, we already talked about how he'd rather go on a suicide mission than let his brother get any credit at all for the battle of Stepstones because if, you know, if if it was Viserys's aid

[00:42:37] that helped them win knowing that they needed the help, they were losing. But Damon was like, no, you're not getting any credit for this. I'll I'll go down first. And when he he goes to the battle alone, he takes that takes a knee like he's surrendering.

[00:42:54] He and she's dark sister again, beautiful. I was so happy. It wasn't a glorious, honorable moment, but it was beautiful to finally get a good look at Dark Sister. I will own that sword whenever they finally come out with it. I keep checking often. I will have that.

[00:43:16] But apparently this is like the Neutrogen horse, you know, like, oh, just kidding, not surrendering today. I woke up and chose violence, you know, today instead. So it was it was great to see because we really got to see what a seasoned warrior, Damon really is.

[00:43:39] You know, we got to hear little whispers about it. And you got a little bit of that at the tourney. But this was really where we got to see how experienced Damon is as a warrior. And I don't know if, you know, that was

[00:43:56] really Matt Smith, you know, in all of that. If that was like a stunt double and all this, you know, it looked like him for most of it. But I know that there was like a kick, you know, or a jump in

[00:44:07] the air and like a kick to something and how he's rolling around on the ground. I don't know how much I didn't look into see how many stunts that he did or anything like that. But regardless made Damon look like the total, you know, badass that, you know,

[00:44:19] he is in the books because that's yes, that's who he was. So I really loved all of that. I like that he finally got hit at least by a couple of arrows. I mean, I don't want anything bad to happen to him. But wow, that was

[00:44:32] a lot of arrows. But yes, I think I mean, I'm like, OK, come on. That's that's a lot. A lot of those guys are focused only on you. But apparently he could teach Rick on Stark a few things about zigging and zagging.

[00:44:50] Yeah, it's not his first day, I guess, going against some some men with their bows and arrows. So that that was fantastic. The whole battle scene and Damon Targaryen and his experience and killing the crab feeder, dragging him out covered in blood was all great.

[00:45:10] And but Damon wasn't the only MVP of the battle because as you mentioned, Lenore and Seasmoak. Yes. Wow. Mm hmm. I was so just every time a dragon appears, I know I'm I'm a weirdo, but every time a dragon appears on screen, I just get so emotional.

[00:45:31] I just love it. It just. My heart just swelled. It was beautiful. And as soon as I saw him, I knew who it was. And I think it was so genius that they used Seasmoak in the battle instead of Caraxies because Seasmoak is this beautiful pale, silvery gray.

[00:45:52] And it was very smoky, you know, the whole battlefield. And he blended, I think, just beautifully. So I think he really had this ability to kind of camouflage where because you kept seeing the dragon or sorry, the crab feeder kind of looking up like he's.

[00:46:07] They know there's a dragon around. They know Caraxies is around and that he could come swooping in and he you can see how he keeps like glancing up to the skies, waiting to see if Caraxies is going to come swooping down and we don't see him.

[00:46:21] And you would have seen him. I mean, he's very red. He's very, very large. And I think he would not have blended and they would not have had that element of surprises they did with Seasmoak. So that was glorious to see. Seasmoak.

[00:46:38] Oh my gosh, he is so freaking adorable. We didn't get a lot of great close ups. He was very much moving a lot. So we didn't get a still of him. But I've seen a couple of folks taking some screenshots online. So they got some

[00:46:54] a couple of good shots of him. And he he is so freaking adorable and then seeing Lenore Valerian on his back like that. I mean, he it was so great to see a dragon rider excited to be on the back of a dragon. Yes. I mean, yes.

[00:47:16] That was the energy that I needed because if if that were me, that is exactly how I would be acting. I would have zero chill. He was like, woohoo, Dracarys, woohoo. I was like, yes. Good for you, my man, because that is the excitement that I want

[00:47:40] to see. I feel like everybody's just like, oh, yeah, I got a dragon. So what? I'm like, are you kidding me? So that was the energy that I loved so much. Yes, me too. And if anybody is wondering about him having a dragon because they've

[00:47:59] made a big point that Valerian's were not dragon riders, don't forget. He's the son of Corleys and of Rhaenys, the queen who never was Rhaenys Targaryen. So Lénar is half Targaryen, which is what allows him to be a dragon rider. Yes. Thanks for pointing that out.

[00:48:20] I've seen a little chatter online like, well, how does he get to be a dragon rider? I thought it was only Targaryens. Well, he's half Targaryen and they very much carried on that same tradition with their children that they do with most Targaryens where, you know, they

[00:48:38] get their dragon, get their dragon egg in the cradle with them and bond, hopefully bond once the dragon hatches. Clearly, Lénar and Seasmoke bonded. I mean, for real, because it's very clear that they have a bond, you know, because what command

[00:48:57] do you give to a dragon as, you know, you're flying around this battlefield and that he can just Seasmoke could just pluck a couple of guys off the ground like that and just toss him aside. I love to see it, you know,

[00:49:10] like, what do you, you know, so clearly they have a very deep connection, which I think most I think most do. And I, you know, and not to go too far off here, but just talking about the bond that dragon riders have with their dragons.

[00:49:25] Did you feel maybe I'm reading too much into it in the beginning when we did see, as you mentioned, the very brief battle scene that we got with Krakse's and Daemon on his dragon there. He did get shot with an arrow

[00:49:41] then it looked like it was on fire and he reacted. He was like, ah, it looks like Krakse's kind of reacts to that. Yes. And I thought, does he, whatever connection it is, I mean, it's a mystery. It's never fully explained. And I think it varies

[00:50:03] per dragon and dragon rider the extent of the bond that they have. But did you get anything from that that maybe like Krakse's fell or knew that Daemon was injured? Yes. So you're right, we don't ever have a lot of information from any of the shows

[00:50:22] or any of the books so far about exactly how the dragon and dragon rider bond works. But it does seem to be well, it's magic. We know it's magic. Right. We don't know how that magic works. But it does seem to be almost an it's a empathic bond.

[00:50:43] And so the way that that scene looked to me is that Daemon was hurt by the arrow and that Krakse's could feel that Daemon was hurt and he almost like lifted his wing to protect Daemon. Yes. Love that, love that. I thought, oh, I don't know

[00:51:07] if that's meant to be what we're seeing if I'm reading too much into it because I'm obviously just, you know, enraptured by the dragons. But since we were talking about the bond, because I think it was pretty clear at least for me that Seasmoak and Lenor had a

[00:51:26] had a great bond. And yeah, Seasmoak was a third dragon that we got. I was thrilled to see another dragon, of course. And he's beautiful and he's he's more of a fighting size. He's a little bit small. He's smaller. He's a young dragon.

[00:51:42] He's more nimble in the air. You could see, you know, how he was able to be very nimble around the battleground and how he was whipping around and get down pretty close and stuff. So he's our new dragon. I need I need a new segment

[00:51:57] here on the podcast. I need a little dragon corner, a little dragon segment. No, it's because I'm always going to talk about him. But yeah, it was great. And it was so cute on Twitter. I don't know if any of our listeners are ever on Twitter, but

[00:52:12] they have given us there's it's a hash emoji. I think is what it's called. I'm a little bit old on my technology. Yes, hash emoji. Sorry. On Twitter that if you use the hash emoji hashtag Seasmoak, you get a little emoji after that that looks like the dragon.

[00:52:31] So they have a cute little gray dragon and he's smiling this little gray. He's smiling and they have one for Craxies. They have one for Cyrax. You know, the dragons that we've seen so far. So you should go check those that out on Twitter. It's super cute.

[00:52:47] Someone did a I've got a screenshot of it on here and he what they did for Seasmoak is just absolutely adorable. So so yeah, I'm going to I'm going to check that out right after the podcast. I definitely recommend it. It's it's just adorable. I love those dragons.

[00:53:05] So yeah, I think a great great battle. I love this great first battle that we've gotten so far. I look forward to more because definitely they do it so well. OK, I think that gets us down to our number one. Right. So what's your number one?

[00:53:25] You know, it might might be the same as yours. Chris, Kristen Cole. Hmm. So poor Kristen Cole. I'm just going to say that for this episode. Poor Kristen Cole. You know, I had thought before that he owes Reneara everything because she's the one who chose him for the

[00:53:56] Kingsguard when he had zero chance of being selected for the Kingsguard without her. And he he's very self aware of that in this episode and he tells her that and he tells her that to tell her that she's not powerless because she had the power to completely

[00:54:18] change his life and his prospects and he when she jumps on that horse and takes off great horse chase scene by the way. Yes, something that they also didn't have a lot of budget for in the early seasons of Game of Thrones. So true. And he takes off

[00:54:44] after her. I mean, it is his duty to protect her and everything is on the line for him because if she tears off into the woods and falls off her horse or gets kidnapped by poachers or you know, whatever thing might befall her. Right. That's that's

[00:55:07] on his head. And so and he keeps asking her you know, can we go back now? Can we back now? She says, no, I'm I'm staying right here. He's thinking, oh, all the trouble I'm going to get into. Exactly. But he can't give her an order

[00:55:29] because she's the princess and he's her sworn shield. So again, as with the way that they are portraying Allison's the way they're portraying Kristen Cole, I think makes him very interesting and right now he is 100% sympathetic character. He tries to understand Renea's point of view. He tries to

[00:56:03] give her advice as best he can from his position. He's very aware of his position. He's very humble. He's you know, he throws his body in front of that bore in order to try to protect her. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm just finding him very intriguing

[00:56:26] at this point in the show. Same. Very much the same thoughts that you have. I'm sure we'll talk more about him in book talk. And I liked that he acknowledged how he got his position that that Renea alone was responsible for that. And, you know, trying to

[00:56:50] make her see that she's not like you said, completely powerless. And it got me thinking. How Viserys was talking in this episode to Allison and how he was hoping to right wrongs that he had done, like with Queen Emma and and her birth and when she died because

[00:57:10] that was his call. That was his decision. And I can't help but feel that Viserys decision and I know he didn't have any other heirs. He only had Renea at the time. He wasn't married. He didn't have any other heirs, but he had made the decision instead

[00:57:31] of it going to like when King Jiharis was king and going to a council and, you know, that whole pomp and circumstance, but he decided to specifically name her as his heir. You know, in this world Westeros that we live in, women don't get a choice

[00:57:46] and that was very, very clear and evident in that episode when Queen Emma died and when Viserys made that decision to sacrifice her. I mean, we knew she was not going to live, but to make the decision that he did to try to save the baby and

[00:58:09] I think that impacted him. I know we talked about it at the time that that was going to really impact him. And I think in the way that it impacted him is he, I think recognized that Queen Emma did not have that decision. That decision was his because

[00:58:25] he was the male and she was only a female, only a woman. And he wanted to give Reneira the power that her mother didn't have by making her his heir. He's giving her the power. He's giving her the choices and the decisions that most women in Westeros

[00:58:46] don't have and no no royal woman has had because they're even, you know, even if they are a princess and the first born child of a king, they're never going to be at least, you know, yet, you know, a queen and be able to have those same decisions

[00:59:03] and power that men can make. So I think that was a good reminder when Kristen Cole had said that like you have you have that power. You do have power. And, you know, you can make change. And I think her father's, you know, given her that

[00:59:23] by way of what happened with her mom, the queen. Yes. So yeah, very I'm very intrigued also by what they're, you know, with with Kristen Cole. And I like to see the relationship. Yes. Yes. Yes. Very interesting to see how that's kind of developed. Yeah.

[00:59:48] So my last point, what is your number one? Yeah. So I wanted to talk about the series a little bit more. And specifically Patty Considine, who's doing, I think, a wonderful job with the series for me in the in the books and I don't think this is to

[01:00:07] spoilery, but he was, I think a blank slate coming from the books. We just didn't get a whole lot of who the series was. We got a little bit of who he was, but man, he's breathing so much life into this character and the way

[01:00:24] that he is acting out, you know, going through this struggle during during this hunt on whether or not he's made this right decision naming Reneira his air. And it he's really putting it out there that he wants to be a good king. He wants to be a good

[01:00:46] father and the poor guy, he just cannot do both. You know, I really feel for him and, you know, I didn't quite get that in the book. You know, it was hard to kind of identify and see where he was coming from. But Patty Considine

[01:01:05] is really showing you where he's coming from. And we've talked multiple times about how he's you know, he's not a bad man, but he is a weak king. He's a weak ruler and we see that because he's he's just wanting to make everyone happy and he says it

[01:01:22] here. I just every time I make someone happy, I'm pissing someone else off, you know, and it's like, well, that's kind of what it takes to be a ruler. Right? I think that's right. Welcome to being king. Exactly. So and I think it's interesting because, you know,

[01:01:42] the dude is just rotting away. You know, did you notice his fingers or lack of fingers there towards the end with him and Allison? He's wearing gloves in public, so it's hard to see if you watch really closely, you can see when he grabs something with his gloves

[01:02:02] to his his ring finger and his pinky finger don't quite close on whatever it is that he's grabbing. And then when he's in his private chambers with Allison, he's not wearing his gloves. You can see his ring finger and his pinky are pretty much gone. And I'm guessing

[01:02:21] we know he's been cut. We saw that he had been cut on his finger and they were trying to, you know, he'd stepping his hand in some maggots trying to get that to heal. Clearly something's not quite working because he's he doesn't

[01:02:35] look to be in the best of health. Well, he's drinking an amazing amount. Yes. Yes. Drinking more. It looks like his hairline and I know they're all wigs, but I think it was intentional. It looks like his hairline was receding just a little bit more.

[01:02:53] He looks a little bit more pudgy than what we saw him two years ago. I think they're giving him a little extra padding there, you know, to giving him that look of, you know, he's not in the best of health. And so and he's his disheveled. Yeah.

[01:03:08] His hair is like messy. It's not combed and his clothes aren't immaculate. And so, yeah. Yes. And I think it's just evident that he knows his own health and because there was a lot of talk. I feel like with at least I picked up on it a

[01:03:29] little bit with him and Allison but then with Reneira because he's like, I'm not always going to be here. You know, he's trying to he's trying to get her settled, I think and get her in a good place. He he's wanting to groom her to rule.

[01:03:43] And of course, she's being completely opposite. And I can so relate with Reneira and her attitude. You know, when he said if I forbade her to marry Jason Lannister, she'd run off with him. She's doing like the exact opposite of what I want her to do.

[01:04:02] So I just laugh because I'm like, yeah, I can relate to that. You know, tell me what to do and I'll do the exact opposite. But it feels like he can definitely start to feel his decline, I think because of his health. Yes. So

[01:04:22] and I think it was really evident. I felt really bad for him in the scene where they're at the height and they're in the tent and he's sitting on a throne and he's drinking and he's just kind of looking at everyone around him. He looks so alone.

[01:04:36] Yes. And I think that was such a good representation of how isolating it can be as a ruler. You know, so and I mean, he seems so desperate that there for a minute I was almost kind of worried he was going to throw himself on that pyre

[01:04:52] when he was out there talking to Allison. I was like, oh, do you just going to throw himself on there? Like he's just done, you know, he's just, you know, rotting away. He's done. I was fearful for just a few seconds there. So I don't know.

[01:05:08] I do love what he's doing with him, though. He's he's doing a magnificent job and giving a lot of life to the series. But it is. I want to also say just a funny thing when Otto Hightower approaches him about, you know, well, you know, maybe you

[01:05:28] should look a little closer to home to Mary Renear off. And when he suggests little two year old half brother Prince Aegon, the series he's kind of looking at Otto and then he looks over to son and he's like, he just turned to and he starts laughing.

[01:05:47] I'm like, he is like the audience in that moment. Like, are we all just kind of laughing at the absurdity of of that match? So I think he's doing an absolute brilliant job. All the kudos to him. I really hope he gets some recognition for this role.

[01:06:04] But I'm doing a great job. Agreed. So. OK, well. That would then lead us into notes. Do you have any notes about the episode? We move on to news. I don't OK. Have any notes. I think we covered everything that I've got. Awesome. I have a few

[01:06:37] I just wanted to give a shout out to Lord Strong, who again is proving to be a really good advisor. And this dude, I'm really liking this guy. He gave the advice to not seek to advance his own house, but he gave him advice

[01:06:59] on how to resolve the issue with Damon, the sea snake and Reneira all in one. This dude's good. So shout out to Lord Strong. I agree. And I liked the way that scene was played where Viserys says, oh, yeah, I know you're going to tell

[01:07:22] me that your son's the best match and then Lionel Strong says, no, not at all. And Viserys is like surprised. Well, I mean, everyone, there are so few and this goes for Game of Thrones too, so few like pure characters, you know, that actually just

[01:07:44] either want good in the world, good for other people or there aren't always looking out for themselves. Everybody wants a piece of something. Everybody's always looking out to better their station or something. And, you know, so yeah, it was he was quite surprised to be

[01:07:58] like, oh, you just actually want what's good for everyone, not just better yourself. So I really like him. I want to say RIP to the night Craxies stepped on. Poor guy was super thrill prince David squash. I mean, he was loyal to the end

[01:08:23] and that was his thanks. But, you know, honestly, it was probably a better end than being like fed to the crabs. Who knows if he would have actually been saved in that moment or even after long enough to be saved from those crabs. You know, getting right to

[01:08:40] feast on him. But yeah, poor guy. We got a couple of intros. I know we're going to talk more about him and talk, but just want to kind of mention we had a couple of introductions to some new characters this week. We got an introduction to Harwen Strong

[01:08:59] this episode. I think everyone should keep an eye on him and his brother Laris Strong. We got an intro to both of them. Those they are the son. We just talked about Lord Lionel Strong. They're his two sons here in this episode. Laris is the one who

[01:09:24] has a deformity of his foot and doesn't walk very well. And he went and sat in the circle of women who were gossiping. Yes. So keep an eye on him. We were also introduced to the land of a new set of Lannister twins. Apparently twins run rampant in

[01:09:43] the Lannister family. Really run in that family. Yeah, they sure do. So again, some some good introductions and you know, keep an eye on those folks, I would say. I think that does at least all my notes that aren't spoilers or book talks. So let's go ahead

[01:10:07] and talk a little bit about news. Now, I looked around. I didn't see too too much, but I don't think we talked about it last week. I think the news came out just after episode two aired last week. And that is that Miguel Sapochnick,

[01:10:24] who is one of the co-showrunners, has decided to step down from the show. So quite a shake up. Having Miguel Sapochnick stepping down from this role, I do believe he is going to stick around as as an executive producer. So he's still going to have

[01:10:44] you know, some insight, but it looks like going into season two, which I think we mentioned, but if not, the show has been renewed for season two. So yay, we will get season two. Yeah, we're very excited about that for sure. So maybe a little second piece

[01:11:02] of news there for season two. But yeah, a little bit of a shake up that Miguel Sapochnick is going to be stepping down as co-showrunner and director. I think he's got some development work that he's going to be working with HBO on. So he's going to be working

[01:11:18] on some of that. And it looks like another veteran of Game of Thrones, Alan Taylor is going to step in in that role a little bit. So anyway, some interesting news. I still don't quite know how I feel about it yet. Miguel Sapochnick is

[01:11:41] obviously a really big piece to this universe and very important. So but he has devoted a lot of time into getting this series off of the ground. He was obviously involved with Game of Thrones and a very big part of directing some very key episodes.

[01:12:02] But he spent a lot of time doing this. So it sounds like he's stepping back a little bit. Yes. And from what I understood from the article that I read, he was reluctant to get involved in the first place and they had to woo him just

[01:12:18] because of the time. Yeah. Because of the time commitment involved and he'd already spent so many years of his life on Game of Thrones and he has other projects that he wants to pursue. Yeah. So for me, I'm really glad that he was there for the first season.

[01:12:38] But I also have a lot of trust in Ryan Condol. I really liked his show Colony, which was a science fiction show, which George R. R. Martin also liked very much and which is one of the reasons why Martin wanted to work with Ryan Condol on this adaptation.

[01:12:58] So I think that they are well established and that Ryan Condol will do a good job of carrying it forward. I agree. I think he was definitely an integral part of getting that foundation built so then they can just keep building from there. And I remember that reluctance.

[01:13:16] You're right. It's been it feels like it's been so long ago that they talked about developing this this show that he was reluctant to kind of come on. And I mean, I'm glad that they got him. But yeah, it's you know, creative people want to keep creating. So

[01:13:33] and it'll be in good hands. You know, Alan Taylor, you know, he he's done a lot of directing with Game of Thrones episodes. He was, you know, instrumental, you know, with their directorial style that they had. So he'll be a good asset as well. So I agree. Yeah.

[01:13:53] OK, well, we have a lot of great listener feedback to go through. So, Renny, if you don't mind taking that first one for me. All right. Alicia Stout says, definitely the slowest burn of the three episodes so far. I'll watch it again, but thought the first half lagged.

[01:14:15] Not sure if it was the pace or the acting, maybe both. The stuff about the white heart threw me off as number one. That's not in the book at all. And number two, I felt confused on what it was at first. I'm super excited that I get to

[01:14:31] understand book talk now since I'm through that chapter and more LOL seems like they are going pretty quick. It will be interesting to see where we go from here. That's awesome. What I'm getting from some of our listeners looks like we've encouraged a couple of folks to

[01:14:48] pick up the book and start reading. So that's exciting. Yes. May Almardini says, another great episode with lots of drag and action. The series is falling apart. He's missing two fingers now. Are we not supposed to like Damon because he's one of my favorite characters?

[01:15:09] The crab feeder getting sliced in half happened quicker than I anticipated. Now can we do the same to Otto who suggested Renera marry her two year old half brother? Jason Lannister is the guy that buys you a drink at the bar and

[01:15:23] then you can't get rid of him. So accurate. Very accurate. That made me giggle. Question, the timeline didn't make sense to me. Did Lenore Valerian age more than three years? Is he not younger than a sister who was 12 in the last episode? Can't wait to hear your take

[01:15:45] on the episode. I'll say that three years definitely that boy got a gross spurt, you know. Gross spurt. G. Joe Puthia says this show every scene is a masterpiece. I don't even know where to begin. I'll keep it short. I feel bad for King Viserys.

[01:16:08] He was born to be a rich yuppie living his best life in Seattle somewhere. Instead he is constantly bothered with responsibilities. He'd rather not have to worry about. Heavy is the head that wears the crown indeed. That is true. Renee Murray says Daemon

[01:16:29] was running like Jon Snow in the Battle of the Bastards when he ran into that cave to get the crab feeder and he came out victoriously as well just like Jon Snow doesn't get any better than that. Daemon is my favorite so far. Lindsay Schlitz says

[01:16:47] not sure how I feel about this particular time jump. It felt season eight Game of Thrones rush E. Was there really nothing interesting to tell us in those three years? A controversial marriage, a new heir, Daemon and Corlys somehow losing a war even with multiple dragons.

[01:17:06] None of that was worth a few episodes. The war at the Stepstones especially felt worthy of a few more episodes. I would have liked to understand the purpose behind the fighting who this crab eater guy was and all the people involved. Who is this other dragon and rider?

[01:17:24] Not understanding the stakes or who was even involved or why it felt like it or why felt like it diminished that amazing last scene with Daemon a bit. It looked cool and it showed his skill, but I found myself not caring much as it felt

[01:17:40] like a story that kind of came out of nowhere. Also, I do like Daemon I think, but maybe the actor hired should have been closer to 20 than 40 because his little hissy fit when his brother promised aid was so over the top for a grown ass man.

[01:17:56] Reneira forcing the bard to repeat his song was so hilarious to me like a moody teen listening to some dramatic song on repeat. When Otto's sleazy ass slithered in to suggest a husband for Reneira, I cringe thinking he meant to suggest himself. I guess I should have realized

[01:18:16] this is Westeros and nothing I can imagine will be as foul as what they'll come up with. Her two year old brother, WTF. How did people like Reneira or Danny ever come from these people? Viserys needs to dump Otto's nasty ass and make this Lionel

[01:18:34] strong guy his hand. He is so much better. I am confused about the conversation between Viserys and Reneira. Does he truly mean to keep Reneira as his heir over Aegon? How is that even possible? Is that what brings us to an eventual war? Viserys never names Aegon

[01:18:54] as heir and that gives Reneira a rightful claim to the throne. As soon as I saw a baby, I wondered how she would possibly think she had a claim. Well, I think you're just going to keep watching there, Lindsay. Keep watching. Or else listen to book talk

[01:19:15] or read the book. Can't say anything. Yeah. That our lips are sealed. Yeah, sorry. That was really great. We did get a couple of voice messages this week as well. So I'm really, really anxious to hear what what some of those are.

[01:19:35] So the first one that we have is from our good friend, Ann Wynne. Let's see what she has to say. Hi, Kristin and Rima. It's Ann Wynne here. I am so excited to be watching House of the Dragon and really enjoying your podcast.

[01:19:49] Isn't it amazing to live in a time when we've got so many swords and kings and dragons on screen all at the same time? I've been really enjoying this season and this, I guess it's a new show House of the Dragon. Love this week. Matt Smith is so

[01:20:05] captivating and terrifying as Damon and I couldn't believe it this episode just when the Herald came along and gave him the note and he just bashed him in. Oh my God, I could not get over it. This guy is so, so proud that he won't even

[01:20:22] accept help from his brother and he would rather risk his own life to try and end everything. And man, he achieved that goal. That scene where he just walked into the camp was incredible and hauled out the lead crab guy, whoever he is, half of his body.

[01:20:40] Oh my God, that was gross. And I just did have a question about dragon writing. I thought it was just Targaryens that could dragon ride. I guess you don't have to be full blood because quality son would be half Targaryen, half Filirian is that right?

[01:20:55] Hopefully you can correct me on that if I'm wrong. Anyway, really enjoying this and going to be interesting to see where they go with time jumps and so on in the future. Thanks for your awesome coverage. See you. Bye. That was great. Thanks, Annwin. And she knows

[01:21:13] all about new shows in their swordplay. She is covering along with our friend Penny, the new Lord of the Rings show Rings of Power on podcastica. So she she's yes, very familiar and well versed with swordplay. Thanks, Annwin. That was great. OK, we have another voice

[01:21:36] message from our friend Steve Brown to see what he has to say this week. All right, Remy and Kristen. This is Steve. Here we go. Episode three, House of the Dragon. To be honest, I don't think I even noticed that the theme music was the same.

[01:21:54] So I'm good with it. What do you think that you think insulting his parentage is going to make him kill you faster? No, he's just going to throw more crabs on you. Ew. Oh, whoa. Is that a dragon attacking them? Whoa. Oh, is it? It is Dayman. OK.

[01:22:11] How much time has passed that the king's baby is two years old? OK. The king just said three years. OK. And is that Allison and she's pregnant with another kid? This guy moves fast. Well, that choked me up, man. That line. No one's here for me

[01:22:25] straight to her father. Gosh. OK. Reneira still got her sass. Old cake eating line was great. Who is this guy talking to Reneira now? Is he he's a Lannister, but he's not on the small council, but he's a twin? What? I think the hand is about to

[01:22:42] suggest that this conversation should be taken behind closed doors about Reneira taking a wife, wife, taking a husband. Oh, no, he's announcing a white deer. It's Councilman to the same thing, right? He's got that conversation to be stopped in public. So now I believe

[01:22:58] she's going out to hunt the white stag and Sir Kristen is going to chase her down. He offers to kill Jason Lannister and she gives him the side eye. I always love side eye acting. Oh, don't assume he's just going to name Aegon as the air.

[01:23:15] I love it. This incest thing. I just can't get it. The hand is proposing. Ew. Oh, no, no, no, he's drinking a lot of wine. Truth is, I know who this guy is, who's advising the king to have Reneiris wed the brother of Lena, the

[01:23:35] daughter of the sea snake. I'm running long. Who is this guy? Now we're back to Reneiris and Sir Kristen Kristen. And guess what? His grace doesn't even realize she's missing. Oh, not a good turn of events. You turning on Sir Damon Sir Carlos. OK, so Sir

[01:23:54] Allison poses the best question of all. What's better of the kingdom? The crab feeder be vanquished or not? I paused because I this conversation between Reneiris and the Serious, the King is great. He's basically telling her pick her own husband. Oh, bad blood between Damon and Lord Corliss.

[01:24:14] Is he mad that the Serious is sending him help? Is he waving the white flag to the crab feeder now? Oh, no, it's a ruse. He's attacking. All the archers are just missing him. Now some of the heirs have got him. Don't forget, he's got

[01:24:28] a dragon, not just his dragon. He's got other dragons. What do I do with that bloody image of Matt Smith dragging the crab feeder's body? All right, talk to you later. Thank you, Steve. That was great. Yeah, I wonder if sounds like a few

[01:24:54] folks kind of not sure who who was who we need to just post a big tree family tree or yes. Yes. And the time jet made a difficult to. I know. Trying to recognize everyone, but that was great. Thank you, everyone, so much for your feedback.

[01:25:14] It's so greatly appreciated. I love seeing what everyone's thoughts are about the episode. So keep it coming. Keep keep sending us the feedback through our Facebook page and email. And of course we love your voice messages as well. All right. So just we're going to move on to

[01:25:34] book talk. So if if you do not want to hear anything about the book in this episode, then you should definitely skip ahead. So just as a reminder, our book talk is going to be in two sections. The first section is going to be differences in

[01:25:52] the book for this episode only or maybe even the first two possibly, but we won't talk ahead. And then we're going to have a second section of the book talk where we will be talking maybe some books spoilers for future events that you haven't yet seen

[01:26:13] in this episode. So just a fair warning if you don't want to hear any of that, then please skip ahead to the end. So, Renny, I would love to hear what notes you have as far as differences in the show versus the book in this episode.

[01:26:33] What what did you what came to mind for you? Well, first before I talk about differences, I wanted to point out that there's a really nice reference in that scene that I mentioned earlier where Allison comes out to find Renny in the Godswood and they Allison

[01:26:50] and Renny give the singer contradictory orders. Allison says sorry, Renny says by order of the princess stay and Allison says the queen commands you to leave it once. And I think that's a call out to the title The Princess and the Queen, which is the

[01:27:11] I talked before about the novella version of the rogue prince. There was a second part published called The Princess and the Queen, which was published in another anthology that was co-edited by George R. R. Martin and Gardner Dozois that was called Dangerous Women.

[01:27:32] And so they did not use The Princess and the Queen as the episode title, but they did, I think make a reference to that other title. So I thought that was pretty cool. I that was probably on purpose. I agree. I'm sure I don't think they make

[01:27:47] a lot of mistakes when it comes to some of that. That's a good call out. Nice. OK, so one thing that I noticed is that when Damon beats the messenger who brings the news that Viserys is going to send troops in the book, Damon reportedly whipped the serving

[01:28:17] man who brought the news that Viserys was to wed Allison within an inch of his life. So I think the show was repurposing that incident to what we saw in in the show. So Damon had been made very angry when he learned that Viserys was to be remarried

[01:28:39] and took his anger out on the messenger in that case. And we see him do the same thing, but with a different set up. I forgot about that part in the book. So I appreciate you pointing that out. And in this three year time skip, the show

[01:28:59] skips over the wedding, Allison and Viserys's wedding altogether. But in the book, it is noted that House Valerian did not attend the wedding because they were they felt spurned since Viserys did not marry Lena. Yeah. And I'm really glad the show skipped over the wedding and didn't show

[01:29:26] us the wedding because one of the things that the book says is that Reneira was among the women who, quote, disrobed the king and delivered him to the bedchamber of his bride. We didn't we really did not want to see that. No, I had to read that.

[01:29:45] I remember that part in the book and I read it twice just because I was like, did I just really read that? So I because like, you know, sometimes, you know, I've got the smaller print book. So I'm like, my eyes did not

[01:29:55] read that. And yes, that's what it said. And I was like, OK, so I'm with you. I'm glad we didn't have to see that. And in the book, it was on the night of the wedding that Corleys and Damon held their war council and it doesn't

[01:30:17] say whether Corleys had invited Damon or Damon went to Corleys. It just says that they held their war council on that night. And it it's Damon's idea that they should go to the steps stones. Corleys wanted to because he was didn't want the piracy,

[01:30:33] but Damon is the one who actually suggests that he says Dark sister was made for nobler tasks than slaughtering sheep. She has a thirst for blood. And so they go off to the steps zones. Something that's not different but is just a mention in the in the episode

[01:30:57] that is. Developed a little bit more in the book, the circle of women who are gossiping. They mentioned that Lady Johanna straw swan was kidnapped off of a ship. Well, it's noted in the book that her infamously penny pinching uncle refused to pay

[01:31:21] the ransom that was being asked. So she was sold to a pillow house in Lees where she rose to become the celebrated courtesan known as the black swan ruler of Lees in all but name. Yes, I thought that was interesting to her story

[01:31:41] that they gave her a little mention there since that's you know, we were kind of focusing on the steps stones in the war there and it was nice little tie in, I think with the book. Yeah. They've they've changed the chronology and in the

[01:32:03] book, there isn't a lot of description of the war in the step zones. Yeah. It's called the private war Damon Targaryen and Corleys Valarion waged on the step zones and they fought from 106 AC until 108 AC when Damon faced Kragas Krabfeder in single combat and cut his head

[01:32:27] off with Dark Sister. He just cut his head off in the book. He didn't cut him in half. Yeah. I don't mind that change. That was pretty cool. But they've changed the timeline a lot because that that's only 108 AC is only seven years after the Great Council

[01:32:48] of 101 when Viserys was chosen to be king over Rhaenys. Right. And the show is already 12 years into Viserys's reign because it was the first time Jump we had took us nine years into his reign. And if and the shows very unclear about how long it was after 101

[01:33:17] AC that he became king but it's 12 years in because we've now had a three year time jump. So it's probably 115 AC in the show because in the book Viserys's reign began in 103 AC and if we assume it was the same in the show

[01:33:39] that it would be one at 115 in the show. Whereas Kragas Krabfeder gets killed in 108 in in the book. So they're they're they're stretching out and changing the timeline. And in there isn't any of the treachery that Damon used involved as in the show and nothing

[01:34:05] particularly made Damon mad because Viserys actually supported the war all along not with troops but he sent money. Right. He supported them with money because he was quote doubtless pleased to be rid of his troublesome brother. Right. War kept Damon busy and out of trouble

[01:34:26] basically and he kept him out of his hair. So he was like let him go play. You know at war. Exactly. Viserys sent regular infusions of gold. So. But I think that this change it makes a lot of sense to you know play up the conflict between

[01:34:49] the brothers and to have Viserys not do anything about the war for a long time that adds to his indecisiveness and how not great as a ruler he is. And then Damon getting mad builds on how much he feels ignored by his brother.

[01:35:12] So I think those are all perfectly reasonable changes to the book. I don't have any difficulty with those at all. That's that's good to hear. I was curious if you were pleased so far with what you're seeing and those differences are getting you know and if they made

[01:35:31] sense to you. So that's good to hear. It makes me feel good. Yeah. I tried to figure out how much of the book was covered in this episode and it's a little difficult because things are taken out of sequence this time. They haven't been up till

[01:35:46] now but in this episode they're jumping over some things which I'm they're going to go back to. So but I think it's a total of about another four pages. So right. Somebody in the listener feedback said you know it's going really fast. That is correct.

[01:36:03] It is going really you know this show is is you'll covering all this territory. But what's in the but what's in the book is just so. Sometimes it's just a sentence or two. This happened that happened and they're making whole yeah. Seens out of it.

[01:36:23] And so much of this episode was focused on developing the relationship between Kristin Cole and Raniera and the tension between Viserys and Raniera. None of that is dealt with in the book books at all. Exactly. It's spent most of its time doing things that aren't just

[01:36:38] aren't in the book at all. And then one thing I wanted to mention is at one point Lionel Strong makes reference to King Jiharis ruling over decades of peace but being driven crazy by his children, particularly his daughters. And Jiharis and Alasane had 13 children, but only

[01:37:04] two of them survived Jiharis. One his son Vagon who was a maester at Cinnadel and the other was his daughter Sarah who lived in exile in Lees because they were completely estranged from one another. But her bastard sons had come to the Great Council of 101 claiming

[01:37:31] to be heirs and one of those is one of the ones who brought elephants with him too. That's great. And those are the things that I have to talk about in the non-spoilery section. OK, the only item of note that we haven't talked about yet was

[01:37:54] the difference in Viserys and him being cut by the Iron Throne. If I remember correctly and maybe it's what we were what we only knew in the book because it's what's being reported, right? It's it's what's being told to us. But he was only cut once

[01:38:15] in the book, right? That that's a good question. I I'm not sure if there's more than one mention of him being cut, but the one the one incident happens later. Right. Yeah, it's later. It's a different set of circumstances. It's a different set of circumstances, which

[01:38:38] I won't mention because we don't know if it'll happen or we'll see it. But I just think it's interesting that they've got to be different because he's already lost the fingers that he loses in that later incident in the book. Right. So I'm curious what what they'll do

[01:38:56] or what will happen moving forward. But I think it's interesting that they've already decided to show us, you know, if you believe in the whole Iron Throne rejecting the ruler, you know, if they don't deem it worthy to sit on the Iron Throne, you know, we saw his

[01:39:12] wound on his back that wasn't healing. We saw him get cut on his finger. We've seen what happened with that, you know, that did not heal and he's lost two fingers now. So and we don't know if anything else has happened since then, but it was only

[01:39:25] at least reported once in the book. And I don't know what that sequence of events were or how that will play out. And I think that the show has to establish that the Iron Throne is said to reject ruler bad rulers and that they get cut on it.

[01:39:43] In the book, you'd already know that because right. The Iron Throne has cut previous rulers. Yes. Four of us. I don't know if that's okay to talk about here or not. I guess it's more book spoilers since it's not even focused on the section

[01:40:00] of the book with Dance of the Dragons, because it happens previous to you, but you're right. We'll save that for further conversation. But but yes, I like that. That's really great. OK, well, so for anyone who is sticking around for the section here for just this episode

[01:40:20] and book talk, we're going to go ahead and jump into some additional book spoilers. So if you want to go ahead and skip ahead, here is your warning. OK, Renny, so what have you got for for spoilers? Let's I cannot wait. I think there's so much to

[01:40:34] talk about. There's so there is so much. There is so much. When I saw the title of this episode, I just about fell out of my chair because, of course, he is Aegon the Second. Yes. They're they're giving it away. The title of this episode is

[01:40:53] a huge spoiler. What are they doing? Were they just trying to make people worry that Viserys was going to take it away from Reneira and make Aegon his heir? But I was I was very interested because in one scene when they arrive at the hunting camp

[01:41:15] and they come out of the carriage, somebody calls out something like Hale Aegon second of his name. And I realized that's actually treason not because Reneira is air, but because Viserys isn't dead. You don't name the next king while the current king is still

[01:41:37] alive. Doing so is actually treason. Oh, interesting. So that makes me think that that the name of the episode is even stranger. I have no idea why they called it second of his name. But I hadn't thought about that, but very interesting that that you bring that up.

[01:41:58] Yeah. So okay, so for one, I want to talk about Reneira's betrothal issue. Yes. So Viserys says that she that he's been getting, you know, he's been drowning in parchment with marriage proposals for her for the past couple of years. And Reneira is in the book

[01:42:25] is said to have had many suitors including Lord Bracken and Lord Blackwood. Those are two families who have a long standing quarrel with each other. They fought a duel over her. One of the phrase asked openly for her hand and was of course turned down

[01:42:44] and after that he was called fool fray for being a fool. That fits both both Thailand Lannister and Jason Lannister the twins vied for her and the sons of Lord Tully Lord Tyrell Lord O'Cart Lord Tarly and Sarah when swat strong all vied for her

[01:43:12] Viserys considered wedding her to the Prince of Dorne to bring Dorne into the realm. Yes. But okay, here's I said something earlier about I was intrigued by how sympathetic they're making Allison. It was not auto high tower's idea to wed her to a god. No, it was Allison.

[01:43:34] Yes. That was I'm like, wait a minute. That was not auto. That was Allison yelling about wedding her to young a gone. That's right. And by that time auto had and this is why I say that they've they've taken some things out of sequence

[01:43:55] because by that time auto high tower had been replaced as hand. He was no longer hand of the King and Lord strong was the hand of the King and he didn't think he was not in favor of Allison's idea of wedding Raniyra to a gone

[01:44:20] but boy Raniyra was never given leave to find her own husband. No, it's the small council who chooses her husband for her. Mm hmm. And it's Lenor Right. Lenor Valerian but Raniyra knew that he preferred boys and at first refused to marry him.

[01:44:43] So it's really hard for me to see at this point how the show is going to bring them together. Now they're they're making Lenor very different in the show, which I think is a great thing. Yeah. Lenor wasn't in the war in the stepstones.

[01:44:58] He and sea smoke were not in the stepstones. In the book and they are in in the show. And I think that's a great change because he's just kind of useless in the books. Yeah, he's not very present. We don't get a lot

[01:45:16] from him know a lot about him. But I like what they're doing with him so far. You know, he was definitely kind of taking some command had a good war strategy there. You know in this episode and obviously had some great time there with sea smoke. So

[01:45:33] yeah, I like what they're doing so far like the change. So the only path that I can see to him and Raniyra getting together if Raniyra can choose her own match is that maybe she respects him and sees him as an ally

[01:45:48] and that she she makes a political match for herself. That she believes she can control. I think that makes some sense. I think so too. I was trying to also say, well, if he's going to leave it to her

[01:46:04] and Allison told him she's like she's not going to do it unless she thinks it's her own idea. So you have to let her come to that herself. So that's right. How how do we get there? Because we know like you said in the book

[01:46:16] that he's chosen for her. She didn't get the say but she's going to get the say. So where how do how do we get there? The results going to be the same. We know that they're going to be wed and betrothed regardless.

[01:46:29] But how is that going to be the whole? The whole rest of the story pretty much can't happen if they don't get exactly exactly. They have to end up together. So she did say to Viserys, if it were only for advantage, you would have married Lane of Eulerian.

[01:46:49] So she's she's that's you know, she's got that political idea in her head. So perhaps it will occur to her. Oh, since dad didn't marry into the Velerion's I could do that. Right. I yeah, I think she's definitely you can see how she's growing.

[01:47:11] You know, as as a ruler, she had good ideas. You know, we talked about it last week's episode, you know, she's putting out some good stuff and everybody just kind of shooting her down. She says in this episode, just like who cares what I think?

[01:47:23] You know, y'all are quick to tell me. It doesn't matter what I think. You know, so she's definitely proven herself to to to to think ahead, think ahead and think of a bigger picture. Yeah. Yeah. So for me, I haven't decided whether I like this change or

[01:47:43] I don't like this change. It depends on what happens next. Yeah. Too early to really tell, I think. Speaking of the Velerion's Veimond is Corleis's nephew, not his brother. And I think it's interesting to change it to to him being his brother.

[01:48:05] There's a theme in this show of conflict between brothers, right? You've got Viserys and Daemon. So they now are setting up a conflict between Corleis and Veimond who's now going to be his brother rather than in his nephew.

[01:48:21] So much, much later in the timeline, Corleis is going to become ill and his own children are dead by that time. And so Reneira has Corleis's grandchildren or her children, her children and maybe officially. And she asks Corleis to make her second son, Lucerys,

[01:48:55] his heir rather than her first son who is the presumptive heir at that point to Driftmark. But Reneira says since he'll inherit the Iron Throne from me, it makes more sense that my second son be Lord of Driftmark. And at that point, Veimond claims that he should

[01:49:15] be the heir to Driftmark since Reneira's sons are not Lenore's sons but are bastards and no good will come of any of that situation. So Veimond will, will become a bad guy at that point. Interesting. Yeah. I distinctly remember what happens when he makes that comment.

[01:49:40] He's going to wish he kept his mouth shut. Yeah, he sure is. So, and you know, maybe part of the idea is that that betrayal will be a betrayal coming from a brother is a worse betrayal than coming from a nephew. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. But you're right.

[01:50:08] I think because a lot of the focus is tension with brothers that maybe, maybe that's why. Yeah. So. Um, so you mentioned earlier that everybody should keep their eye on Larry Strong and he makes a very unobtrusive debut in this episode, which I think is perfectly appropriate. Yep.

[01:50:40] Because he is going to become much more important. He will become master of whispers and he is the character who is sort of the parallel to, oh my gosh, Varis is named Varis. Just had a tip of the tongue syndrome in there.

[01:51:02] Yeah, he's kind of a parallel to Varis in Game of Thrones as master of whispers and a real manipulator. And so seeing him entering into a gossip circle, I think is a great debut for him. I thought it was absolutely perfect and he does remind me a

[01:51:19] lot of Varis because I feel like I never quite figured out where Varis's loyalties lie and I could never figure that out with Larry Strong either. I'm like, dude, I don't know who you're rooting for this story. Exactly. Yeah.

[01:51:40] And then finally, Viserys being a dreamer of Dragon Dreams. In the book he is not a dreamer of Dragon Dreams. But the dream that he reports here is very interesting because of what we know about the events to come.

[01:51:59] He dreams that his son Aegon will wear Aegon the Conqueror's crown and he does. But that will cause a disastrous civil war. So this prophetic dream does come true in the way that prophetic dreams tend to come true.

[01:52:20] They don't come true in the way you expect them to and it's never good. It's always that interpretation. You know, they get, you hear often about the Dragon Dreams and well, it's left up to interpretation sometimes, you

[01:52:34] know, as to what it means and how it's going to play out. So yeah, he has that, but he definitely doesn't quite know how that's going to play out to come with the Kingdom. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that was what I noticed.

[01:52:53] Did you notice anything else that I didn't talk about? No, mostly just some comparisons and, you know, like I said with Viserys losing his, his finger a little bit differently. You know, we talked about Reneira and Kristen Cole's relationship. They're really getting that foundation there where because

[01:53:24] it's interesting to see how sympathetic like you were talking about earlier how sympathetic they're making Kristen Cole and Allison. It's going to be devastating. You know, it's going to become major bad guys. Yes. It's, I'm just like, oh my gosh, uh, it's so easy to dislike this

[01:53:43] person and hate this person or hate that person by based on what you read in the book, but man, this show is really going to make it difficult. You know, and I think it's going to twist that knife even

[01:53:57] deeper, you know, for a lot of people when, when things are going to be difficult, they're going to be really, really hard to get out of the way that they do with with the betrayals. You know, I will say as I was watching this episode and

[01:54:19] thinking about what's ahead, I developed a little bit of a worry and that is that non book readers may end up and it's pretty hard to find anybody to root for. Yes. Because everybody does unforgivable things. Everybody. Yes, everyone has.

[01:54:42] And that's I think kind of be maybe even more devastating in the show than in the books because I think you kind of get attached to the actors who are playing the parts and so forth. And when you see them doing really devastating things

[01:55:10] and not nobody being an ideal ruler, I think people are going to say, wait a minute, where are all the good guys? Yeah, because it's gosh, it's it's a lot of gray. You know, you have some really bad people that

[01:55:31] sometimes they can make a good decision every now and again. You know, and you're like, yeah, that's the way to go. And then you have some really good people making some really bad decisions and maybe some evil kind of decisions that like,

[01:55:45] whoa, you know, and sowing the seeds of their own downfall in some yes. Yes. Well, you know, we were talking about Reneira earlier and you know, the symbolism that I didn't want to go too too deep down because we weren't talking about the book,

[01:56:03] but just show her behavior in the in the Kingswood when she slaughters the bore. She does it. I mean, obviously out of necessity, right? The thing was starting to stir and she killed it out of necessity, but the the white heart she let go when

[01:56:23] she could have very easily killed it. Now, not that I wanted. I'm not rooting for any animals to die because everyone knows how to feel about animals, but had she went ahead and killed the white heart and showed up at camp with it.

[01:56:35] Think of how that would have upped her chances at gaining some more loyalty from some of the houses when it was going to be needed in the future. Right. And it kind of it was kind of representative of her character where she acts and she's reactive out of

[01:56:52] necessity versus what needs to be done. She did what she had to do with the bore and she was reactive because it was necessary, but the white stag. She let it go because it wasn't necessary to kill it.

[01:57:06] So she wasn't willing to do what she needed to do or whatever if so I feel like that's kind of shows her character and what's going to happen later on because that's how she kind of is later on. Yeah, there there was one other thing that I didn't

[01:57:21] mention before we got to this book talk spoiler section. When Viserys and Allison and baby a gone in his nurse and Reneara are in the carriage riding out to the hunt. Viserys ask Reneara says, you know, you should come with us and she refuses and

[01:57:51] he asked her why she won't join the hunt and Reneara says the squeal of bores being slaughtered sounds disconcertingly like children and she's looking right at baby a gone when she says it. Yes. And since there is the murder of children in the future,

[01:58:10] I thought that was super you know, foreshadowing. Yes. Oh, that's a good pickup. Yeah, she looked right at that child. Seen some crazy stuff on the Internet of people referencing Reneara meeting baby a gone for the first time. It was not great.

[01:58:34] I won't repeat it here because it's terrible. But yeah, so it's it's there's a lot of bad things to come obviously if you if you're listening to us and you read the book then you know you know, we were talking about the introduction of the characters,

[01:58:54] you know, talking about some of the houses and later on who decides to side with which is, you know, side with what Targaryen it's with the Targaryen family right. But the introduction of the Lannisters, you know, I thought it was interesting because we got

[01:59:11] Jason Lannister kind of being spurned here in this episode, which I think kind of gives us some good foundation for later when he supports the Greens. Yeah. And she's looking through my notes. Something on a lighter note, Harwin Strong. Did you see how he's making love eyes

[01:59:37] at Reneara when she's walking into camp covered in blood? Everyone else was like, Ew. Oh my gosh, what and he is just grinning from ear to ear. Oh, you're hot. Yeah. I just I loved that because I'm like, yeah, we know we know

[01:59:54] what you're about and what's going to happen. So I love that. I thought that was that was really great. I wanted to mention something super unfortunate that I don't know if everyone has seen or not, but it really is disheartening in this day and age of the Internet.

[02:00:11] Some spoilers that were going around, you know, for people who have not read the books, you know, there were people that when they read a song of ice and fire way before the show ever come out. Let's say for example, the Red Wedding, you know, they knew

[02:00:27] it was going to happen. They kept quiet. They let it play out for everyone who is ignorant to the books and only watching the show and they let that happen and play out. They did not, you know, spoil that for everyone.

[02:00:45] It's not quite happening today because what they're doing and I don't know if you're aware of it, Renny, or if you recall in Game of Thrones, there is a scene in season three, episode four. Joffrey is giving Marjorie Tyrell a tour and he

[02:01:03] essentially spoils the whole end of the Dance of Dragons and tells exactly what happens to Rennyra. That's right. And there are people that are not, they're like, oh, Geoffrey tells about what happens to Rennyra or what happens in Dance of the Dragons and without really

[02:01:23] tagging it as a spoiler and people are seeing that and so that now they know what happens. And I'm just, I'm really, really disappointed and frustrated with people because I'm like, you know, yes, it was there. It happened, right?

[02:01:41] So if you're, if anyone was doing a rewatch of Game of Thrones right now and also watching the show and had read the books, they're going to stumble on it but to call it out on purpose and say, oh look, they talked about

[02:01:53] the Dance of Dragons, what happens to Rennyra, you know, in the show and just blatantly putting it out there. It makes me angry. And people doing a rewatch might not even catch that it's this Rennyra. Right. Right. There's so many Targaryens and so many things that

[02:02:09] have happened that you might be able to just go by that and not catch it but if somebody's putting it out there, oh, you want to find out and just watch this scene then they would obviously know. Yeah. It's disheartening and there's another scene as well

[02:02:22] and I mean, obviously the Dance of the Dragons which is what this whole event was nicknamed, you know, it was a big deal. It was such a huge famous event that the characters in Game of Thrones were aware of it too even

[02:02:33] though it was what, 200 years prior to. They're still talking about it. There's books on it that there's another scene. It was in season five and the title of the show or the episode was actually called the Dance of Dragons and that was when Stannis Baratheon,

[02:02:52] his daughter, Shireen, was reading on the history of the Targaryen dynasty and that was the episode where Stannis does the horrible act of sacrificing Shireen, which I'm going to leave that because if you've watched then you know what happens, at least I hope you know what happens

[02:03:08] because we've been spoiling Game of Thrones this entire time. But she talks about it too. She gives some things away as well. She says, it's the story of the fight between Rhaenyra Targaryen and her half-brother Aegon for control of the seven kingdoms.

[02:03:21] Both of them thought they belonged on the iron throne. When people started declaring for one of them or the other their fight divided the kingdom in two, brothers fought brothers, dragons fought dragons. By the time it was over, thousands were dead

[02:03:33] and it was a disaster for their Targaryens as well. They never truly recovered. And I think that this was just kind of you know because of the what happened in that episode with again brothers against brothers and what Stannis was doing in a house divided

[02:03:52] and what he ended up doing to Shireen I think is kind of why they included that. I mean maybe I don't know the decision behind that but you know just people are also throwing that out there too, that scene. And it's like you're just stop doing that people.

[02:04:09] That's all I wanted to say if you're listening. Yeah. Just stop doing that. Let people watch. Yeah, let people watch and even if people get spoiled about particular events though you lose the surprise of that but still how we get there is worth the journey.

[02:04:28] Absolutely even though I've finished that section of the story and I know how it ends and what happens in the books. I am enjoying the hell out of what they're doing and fleshing it out and the characters. It's so worth seeing how the characters

[02:04:44] are bringing life to the characters in the book and the events and figuring out how they're gonna decide which way it's gonna go. Like I don't really want to talk too much about next week's teaser but I feel like there's an important event that happens

[02:05:03] in the book that we might get on the show. So I'm real curious like you know you kind of get two different versions in the book and which version do you think really happened and it's gonna like what do they decide to do on the show.

[02:05:16] So that's the fun stuff. So yeah, it is the journey even though I know the end you know I love what they're doing with it. And you know they may completely change the ending. You know there may be a happily ever after. You never know.

[02:05:33] You just, you know they might decide to just flip the script on the whole Targaryen story and you know decide you know what for once the Targaryens are gonna win. I don't know. Everybody lives together in peace and harmony. Dragons just eat sheep and not people.

[02:05:55] Now that's a fantasy. Exactly. I love that. I love that. I think that was really all the notes that I had and do you have anything else that you wanted to add to that? No, I don't have anything else to add. Okay, well thank you.

[02:06:13] That was really great. So, Thank you. I enjoyed talking with you about this. Thanks. So I could be on here forever dissecting that with you. So thanks for, it's a joy for me. Well next week on House of the Dragon,

[02:06:32] we're gonna be covering season one episode four of House of the Dragon titled, at least tentatively titled that I could see, King of the Narrow Sea. So, I think I know what they're alluding to here but I think I do too.

[02:06:52] We'll just let that play out and be surprised. Yes. You can leave feedback at our podcastica Facebook page where we post weekly feedback threads or you can leave feedback by email at dragoncasticaatgmail.com We would really love if you go and leave a review

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[02:09:19] So that is the reason we're asking for your help and we think if more people knew about us, they'd really like our podcast. I think podcastic has something for everyone and so we'd love to get our numbers up. So thank you in advance.

[02:09:32] If you've already done that, thank you. That means a lot to me and to all of us here at podcastica and thank you in advance. If you do go do that. Well, all right. That's our show. Thanks for listening everyone. Until next time, I'm Reema and I'm ready.

[02:09:53] Dracarys!