9: "The Lord of the Tides" (S1E8)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, I'm Kristen. I'm Reema. And I'm Renny. And this is Dragon Cast, podcast dedicated to House of the Dragon. This week we're covering season one, episode eight, The Lord of the Tides. Yes we are! So before we get into this, a brief synopsis of the

[00:00:36] episode from HBO is it's six years later, with the Driftmark succession suddenly critical, Renera attempts to strike a bargain with Rhaenys. Again, nothing to do with the actual episode except for like one or two scenes. But you know, I guess you have to write something

[00:00:53] down. Yeah, I think I put something there. Welcome, Renny. Welcome, Renny. Thank you. Welcome. We're so happy to have you for the whole episode this week. I'm so happy to be here for it. As I told Reema as I was writing notes for book talk, I kept writing,

[00:01:10] I kept having to scratch things out because they weren't anything to do with the book. They were just about the episode so I'm very happy to be able to talk about the episode.

[00:01:21] And what an episode it was. I went to bed last night just being like, oh man, here we go. It's all happening now. And then today, I tried to do the second watch. I didn't

[00:01:41] quite get to finish it but I feel like the last 20 minutes of the episode are burned into my memory forever. So I should be okay. How about you guys? How did you enjoy this week? Renny, you go first.

[00:01:57] I just love this show more and more with every episode. It gets better and better. I love hearing that. Love that. It's the same for me. I have so few complaints about this

[00:02:11] season so far in this show. I know there are some time jumps, there's a little pacing. There are some things I wish we had gotten to spend a little bit more time on here and there as

[00:02:22] we jumped ahead. But I have no complaints and this episode just, wow, I think I have to. And if I include the Game of Thrones universe, if I include that show, this is probably one

[00:02:35] of the top episodes for me talking about both shows together. And that's saying a lot, right? Because that's obviously a lot of great moments, great episodes. This was huge. And you don't have to spoil anything for the non-book readers. But wow, this kicks things off, folks.

[00:02:55] So huge. The story kind of begins here now, doesn't it? What did you think, Kristen? Me? You know what? I very much enjoyed it. I think it was really good. I am having a big problem with all these time jumps, to be quite honest. I really,

[00:03:14] really wanted more story in these rushed time jumps. Mainly because I knew that we were coming to Viserys' end and I wanted more of him. I would have liked more lead up to the kids really hating

[00:03:35] each other because I don't think that that was really expanded enough. But we'll talk about that later. But as for the episode, I think it was excellent. It was well acted. If they don't give

[00:03:47] Patty Constantine an Emmy for his role for this show, something is wrong. He is amazing. You know, a lot of quiet moments, a lot of really well-acted, well done quiet moments. So yeah, it was fantastic. And I'm really looking forward to the next two episodes.

[00:04:13] Me too. Yeah, you're so right. Me three. All in favor say aye. Aye. So let's kick it off. Let's talk about this episode. Reni as our lovely guest, would you like to go first?

[00:04:31] Yes. I would love to. Thank you. And my first point is heroism. And the heroism that I have in mind is the heroism of an old man walking across a room. I think that that is one, it's certainly

[00:04:49] one of the most heroic things we've seen anybody do in this season. And it was such a great scene. I think that it may stand through the whole season as one of the most heroic things

[00:05:01] we see anybody do. So Viserys has been kind of a putt. He has wanted to please everybody and he couldn't please everyone because they wanted conflicting things. And so he's just let all this controversy brew below the surface. And he's never done anything about it. He has not

[00:05:32] been a great king. But when Reneira goes to him and says, you have to defend me, you know, the stakes are very high. That scene would have ended very different differently if Viserys had not walked through that room. Reneira could have been accused of treason

[00:05:58] if Otto and Alicent had continued to preside. But then we see Viserys putting so much effort into just walking across the room. And then Damon comes to help him when

[00:06:20] he can't make it up the steps of the Iron Throne. And Viserys accepts his help. So we see this kind of reconciliation between these estranged brothers. And Viserys takes charge. This is the

[00:06:38] first time that we've really seen him take charge in this way. And at this point in the show, we haven't yet seen the extent of the damage that he has suffered from this disease. So later at

[00:06:52] the feast, when he takes off his mask and we see that basically half of his face is gone, that just emphasizes how much effort, how much courage, how much determination it took him to do what he did. So I thought that was just such an effective scene.

[00:07:15] I completely agree. I just think that it was all those things that you said. And what was really wonderful was just like you were talking about with Viserys and Damon, as Damon helped him up to the throne. There was that unset love for each other, affection for

[00:07:33] each other, that brotherly bond that's just there. Even though they've gone through what they've gone through, they were both present in that moment. And Damon had nothing but love and concern on his face. He didn't have pity on his face. He didn't have anger on his face.

[00:07:54] His character, I love how nuanced his character is and how he loves his family without abandon, just 110% for his family at all times. Yes. And did you notice that Damon put the crown back on Viserys' head? So he's almost reconfirming you are the king.

[00:08:17] Yes, I had those same feelings. And then later I found out that that was an improvised moment. Yes, it was. It was not scripted. Yeah, I love that. Yes, that is great. It shows just how much these two actors really understand their characters.

[00:08:35] And it was fantastic. I agree with you, Reema. I think both of you have said it in some way. This is the scene that will stand the test of time. This was an immediate iconic scene.

[00:08:51] Yes. Definitely. Yes, that was awesome. I love the idea of Viserys finally being a hero. That was very well said. And it shows us that you don't always have to be riding a dragon or wielding a sword or beating somebody up

[00:09:18] or killing somebody in order to be a hero. You can do something that seems much smaller. You show up to a meeting and you take charge. And it can end up being a heroic act and a vital

[00:09:37] act and perhaps save the life of your daughter and your grandchildren. That's a really good point, very well said. Yeah, I agree. How about you, Reema? Well, I'm going to add to what Renny said because obviously Viserys is one of my points too.

[00:10:01] And man, when I tell you how hard I cried when Viserys gets out of his death bed to come defend Reena and vouch for his grandson that long walk. I mean, when they open the doors

[00:10:16] and they announce King Viserys and he's entering the throne room. I feel like that was Otto's crap in his pants moment there. And I loved it. I thought it was so great.

[00:10:34] And all the things, right? His long walk and when he says, I will set the throne today. Oh my gosh. He finally came in with this demonstration of power that I've been waiting for all season. He stumbles up the steps and when he thought it was another guard,

[00:10:55] but then it turns out to be Damon helping him. It just brought the tears on even more. Damon never wanted to take Viserys' place. He only wanted to be his heir. Damon's told him before,

[00:11:08] I'll protect you like no one else can. And I just wish, I mean, I think things would have went so much differently if maybe he had just made Damon his hand. I'll agree. Damon has always

[00:11:20] cared for his brother. They may not have always shown it. He's been, they've definitely had their differences, but Damon has always truly cared for his family and his family always meant a lot to him. And his Targaryen history has always meant a lot to him.

[00:11:39] And he truly cares for Viserys and it really comes through. And like you said, Kristen, that moment when as Patty Constantine is stumbling as he's acting and going up the stairs and he's stumbling

[00:11:53] as Viserys and the crown falls off his head that was not scripted, it fell off as he stumbles. I'm like, you know, he's arched over. He's playing the part. He's sick. He's not healthy.

[00:12:01] He's in extreme pain and then to know that he comes up to do that and all that was like said, just absolutely perfection. Just these two characters and actors really know each other.

[00:12:13] It was absolutely beautiful. I love that Viserys came in to the rescue of the daughter that he loves. He loves Reneara so much. It's out of the love that he had for Emma

[00:12:24] and why he made Reneara the heir to the throne because he still feels that guilt of pushing Emma to continue trying to have a male heir to the throne when he had one all along.

[00:12:40] And feeling that guilt and out of that love that he has for Emma to then Reneara to do what he did. And like you said, Renny, when we got to see the scene,

[00:12:52] there was that scene earlier that he had with Otto when he was naked on that table and I don't know if they were cleaning or lancing his wounds, whatever the maestros were all doing.

[00:13:04] If you didn't get a good picture of the degradation in his health and the extent of what he's going through and the pain that he's in, that should tell you the effort that

[00:13:19] it took for him and to not be on any pain meds to do it because he wanted to be clear-headed. And I love that he gives all this energy just to get to the throne, climbing those steps,

[00:13:30] but then he still had enough in him to throw some snark at why everyone was gathered. He's like, I'm confused. Why are we here talking about this? So I mean, poor went out for

[00:13:42] King Viserys. That was amazing. It really shows that if he's not drugged up on milk of the puppy, while his body has completely rejected him, his mind hasn't. He's still extremely sharp. And I did like how the adrenaline fueled his conversation.

[00:14:03] Yeah. I mean, he and then when somebody said that word bastard and whore, like he got that rush of adrenaline. He stood up. He used every ounce of energy he had left

[00:14:17] for that meeting to just get that knife out and just be like, I am going to rip your tongue out of your throat right now. I wanted to see it happen. Oh man. I wish he had been in better health.

[00:14:28] I wanted to see King Viserys like just take his tongue right there. And that's the prophecy dagger that he pulled. Yes. Sure was. And Rima, you were talking about how Viserys' love for Emma is

[00:14:49] reflected in his love for Rhaenera. Did you notice when he had taken some milk of the puppy, he called Rhaenera his only child? Yes. That was not lost on me. I thought, oh boy. It's probably good that she was the only one that heard that.

[00:15:09] Well, and he also called out for her at the end. Yeah. Yeah, he did. Which I thought was lovely. Viserys did have a really, really, really good episode there. It wasn't even just that scene

[00:15:32] too, right? I mean, it was the dinner scene. It was his death scene. It was him laying in bed and getting his people confused and sitting there having whatever it was, the lancing or

[00:15:50] healing or maintenance of his failing body on him. I mean, you really believe that this man was completely gone, like his body had just utterly failed him. And if you're done, Rima, this kind of goes into my first point as well. Yes.

[00:16:13] So one of the things that I really noticed in this episode was just the corruption that the throne really is. And in this episode, I thought that we saw how corrupt the throne can make a person. With Viserys, we see

[00:16:37] the throne has corrupted his body. It has caused his body to ultimately reject this life. He gets cut on the throne frequently, but also the stress of his family being held together and not knowing which direction to go and losing his wife and running the realm and having

[00:16:57] to switch hands and then everything that was going on. I mean, the more complicated his life became and the more complicated his realm became, his body kept failing and failing and failing. And he lost control, I think, over his own body to his wife, Otto, and these

[00:17:17] maesters. And it's not lost on any of us that they all come from the same place. But then if you look further beyond Viserys, you see that Allison, when she feels that she is holding the power, she's running the meetings, she is person in the room,

[00:17:40] it has a very corrupted effect on her. She gets very arrogant, she gets very petty with the people that she wants to be petty with and she kind of flaunts her power a little

[00:17:57] bit, kind of like Cersei Lannister when she had to talk with Littlefinger and she's talking about power with him. And she's like, take three steps back, no, take one step back, kill him.

[00:18:12] No, I changed my mind, don't kill him. And then she looks at Littlefinger and she's like, that is power and walks away. It's a great Cersei moment, I'm sure we all remember.

[00:18:24] But I see a lot of that happening in Allison this episode. She's been made to think that she can wear her house colors, that she can redesign King's Landing in the throne room in the way that she wants. So you see that as Viserys takes a step back,

[00:18:45] not willingly, that the throne has now started to corrupt her a little bit. You see, Aegon, Aegon is a little shit. I think that we can all agree that he's the worst. And he has his own deal happening, right? I mean, he's never been asked to

[00:19:07] be accountable for his own actions. He's never really had to learn to be a leader either. But he knows that he's going to be expected to be a leader and because of that, I think he thinks he's untouchable, which he's been made to think that because

[00:19:24] Allison has cleaned up all of his messes. So you kind of see how the corruption of the crown is starting to leak in to Aegon a little bit, just in his mindset and how he's being raised

[00:19:36] and what he expects for him to be in the future. I think Otto really speaks for himself. I mean, when he was sitting on that throne, he was pretty excited that he was the guy,

[00:19:51] that he was the king. I don't think that he thought of himself as the king's hand. I think he thought of himself as the king for Viserys to take him off the throne and Otto has

[00:20:02] lost control of that situation. That's very reminiscent of when he went to Dragonstone to try and get the egg back from Daemon. And you're like, you're way out of your depth here, man. But he was on a power trip and he wanted to claim that power for himself.

[00:20:18] And then you can even see it with Daemon. I'm not saying it's the Iron Throne, but he is he's getting to the point where or he was getting to the point where he thought that he could get

[00:20:34] Driftmark all sewn up because he had Otto and Allison in his pocket. And there's all these people that are just drunk with this small amount of power that they think that they wheeled

[00:20:47] until the real power comes in. And you see the toll that it's taken on Viserys' body and you see that it has slowly killed him over the last 20 years that we've had this season. What's interesting to me is that the one person that is not corrupted by

[00:21:10] the Iron Throne or the ascension of power or deserving it or anything like that is Rhaenys. Rhaenys stays true to who Rhaenys is. She's calm, she's cool. She sat behind all these people just like talking and spitting at each other until somebody actually noticed that she was in

[00:21:34] the room. It was Viserys. And Viserys is like, I'm pretty sure that if anybody's going to talk about Lord Corlys is going to be Rhaenys. She's like, yeah, I know. And he had to pick her out

[00:21:45] of the back of a crowd. But she didn't make a big stink about it. She has made her peace with who she is and she does her duty when it's time for her to do her duty. But she doesn't

[00:21:58] carry either way past that. And I think that that's really a beautiful quality in her that nobody else in this show seems to possess. So actually, the Queen that never was is my next point.

[00:22:14] So shall we just flow over into that? Absolutely. That sounds great. I do have more to say about Rhaenira and this corruption thing, but that's for book talk. Oh, okay. No, yeah, but that's for book talk. And I didn't want to like talk about it.

[00:22:27] I don't want anybody to think that I'm not like that I'm excusing Rhaenira or Daemon for who they are. But Rhaenira's corruption is really for book talk. Okay, more to come. But please talk about Rhaenys. Yeah. So my point is the Queen who never was is a player.

[00:22:46] So I think that she is the smartest person in the room. And that some of the way that she acts on that being the smartest person in the room is sometimes she says nothing.

[00:23:04] And so and I have to I have to shout out the writers of the show for actually giving us a scene with Rhaenys, Rhaena and Rhaenira all standing there together just to twist my tongue.

[00:23:19] Yes. And all of their names were actually said during the war. It was amazing. So Rhaenira comes to Rhaenys to ask for her support and she's not getting anywhere. So she says, all right, I'll make you an offer, the betrothal of

[00:23:43] the grandchildren, the children and the grandchildren. And Rhaenys, first of all, she knows that Rhaenira has brought Rhaena to, you know, as a ploy to try to soften her up for this pitch. And so because she hasn't seen even though Driftmark and Dragonstone are

[00:24:07] very close together, it seems that they have not seen each other for a long time. So Rhaenys had not seen her granddaughter Rhaena for the six years of the time jump. And so, you know,

[00:24:24] she knows that Rhaenira is bringing her sight of her granddaughter. She hasn't seen for a long time to soften her up and then she makes her this pitch. And Rhaenys doesn't reject it.

[00:24:34] She doesn't accept it. She just walks away and leaves it on ice. And then she looks at the way the wind is blowing in the throne room. And, you know, I don't think that Otto was going to call

[00:24:53] upon her to speak. But I think that if Viserys had not come into the room, she would have backed Veimund because she saw that that's the way the power was tilting.

[00:25:09] And she wants to maintain as much say in matters as she can. Remember, at the opening when Veimund was making his pitch about how he should be the heir, she's sitting in the Seastone,

[00:25:27] sorry, in the Driftwood throne. Let me back up and start over again. The Driftwood throne. Too many names. Yes. Right? Yes. She's sitting in the Driftwood throne, right? She is on a throne. There she is,

[00:25:41] the queen that never was. And Veimund comes to her almost like a supplicant. But he's insisting that he should be the heir. And so I think she would have backed him, thinking that she would have had some influence over him still if he had been the heir.

[00:26:06] Until Viserys walks in the room. And the minute Viserys walks into the room, I think Rhaenys is smart enough to know there's a shot of her and you see her face. And you can see that thought is going on behind her expression that the power has just shifted.

[00:26:24] And in that moment, she decides to back Rhaenira to accept the betrothal to declare that Jason, Luke and Joffrey are Lenore's trueborn sons and completely align herself with that side because she thinks that's where the winners are. And she is savvy enough to align herself with the

[00:26:54] winners. Well said. She's a very interesting take that I did not, I didn't make that connection, but you are so, so right. I was worried. I thought when she had that conversation with

[00:27:10] Rhaenira by the godswit, I was like, oh man, I don't know which way she's gonna go. That was hard to tell. And I think you're so right that the way it played out, she was

[00:27:21] very observant and said, okay, this is where it's leaning. This is where I'm going. Yeah, very well said. So imagine had she been queen instead of Viserys being famous? I'm telling you. How differently things would have unfolded.

[00:27:38] Yeah. I think we talked about that very early on like, man, she would have definitely been, I think, I mean, and I know I'm giving all the love to Viserys in this episode because he

[00:27:48] deserves all the love for finally stepping up and doing what should have been done. Unfortunately, a long, long time ago showing that assertiveness and putting his foot down and telling everyone

[00:27:58] to shut up. This is how it is. But I think she would have been a better ruler if Jaehaerys would have just named her his heir. And instead of leaving it up to the council, it would have been a much different story. Yes.

[00:28:16] 100%. 100%. Everything could have just been so different with just one, one thing that happened different in that little scene. And then the show does something very interesting, which is it does not put her

[00:28:31] in the banquet. She's keeping vigil with Vaman's body. And so she's not there to be part of that infighting that happens, the reconciliations and the infighting that happens. So she doesn't need to declare any further allegiances there because she's off making her peace, perhaps because

[00:29:05] the price of what she's done is backing the lie about the parentage of Reneirah's sons. So I have a question about this because we all talk about the fact that this big thing with the Luke and Jace are bastards. They're not

[00:29:26] true born sons. They're illegitimate. Okay, well, back in Game of Thrones, and I'm taking it, that is canon, right, to kind of what's going on here. Gendry and Ramsey and yeah, Gendry and Ramsey, Ramsey Snow, they were legitimized even though they were bastards. They were

[00:29:50] legitimized. So if the king has called Jace and Luke true born sons and Horliss has called them true born sons and Lenor has called them true born sons, then no matter what they look like, they've been legitimized. Am I totally off base here? Well, they've been acknowledged,

[00:30:16] which isn't the same thing as being legitimized. Right, like a no-nasterd being legitimized. That's right. There's a bit of a difference there. But I see what you're saying, Kristen and I agree to. I feel like if the king, Lenor and Horliss have all stepped up and said

[00:30:38] they are true born, my true born grandsons, my true born sons, what have you, then that should be enough. I mean, we had this in Game of Thrones with Joffrey and Tommen

[00:30:54] and Oh shoot. Oh shoot, it's been. Thank you. You're welcome. Oh my goodness, it's been a hot minute. It's been a while. I haven't gone back to tell you the truth. I tried and I couldn't do it.

[00:31:13] I haven't watched it since the finale aired. I haven't been ready yet, but maybe after House of the Dragon. But anyway, I don't know that it was as not really known. We know Ned knew, but I feel

[00:31:32] like lots of people knew it was kind of an open secret between Jaime and Cersei and very clear with their blonde hair versus Robert's black hair. No one just dared to say anything. And I think maybe

[00:31:45] because Robert was a stronger king than Viserys maybe, that who would dare say anything while Robert was king and especially Cersei too because she was certainly formidable in her own way. And then of

[00:31:58] course Jaime. Yeah, they could have been a real power couple. Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like now of course her and Robert were, I don't know, maybe it was different because he was king and

[00:32:11] they were married. I don't know, but I feel like that's kind of the same thing. And Robert was like, these are my children. Whether or not, I don't know if we ever really, did we ever get anything

[00:32:23] from Robert that he's like? No. He never really questioned, right? He never questioned it. No. But it was... He was pretty sure that the seed was strong with him. Right. Just by Cersei's best efforts to make sure she didn't have any of his children, I believe.

[00:32:44] And I don't think that it was widely known that Cersei's children were bastards because when Ned Stark is going through that book that's the lineage of the Baratheon family and he keeps reading Black of Hair, Black of Hair, that's what leads him to the realization. And then he

[00:33:10] discovers that that is the same secret that the previous hand Lord Aeron had discovered and that's why he was killed. Why he was killed. So I don't think that it was something that

[00:33:22] was gossiped about. It was a deep, deep secret unlike this one. But the parallel of course is that Gendry and John Snow and Ramsay Snow, those bastards who are legitimized,

[00:33:42] are the sons of a Lord or a King or a Prince and some woman. They're not the sons of the Queen or the Princess. And so a royal woman having a child that is not her husband

[00:34:06] is actually treason whereas a man having a bastard with some other woman than his wife isn't treason. So that's part of the horror of patriarchy. Yeah, like y'all can go have all the bastards you want and sure if you want to legitimize them in

[00:34:30] some way but if a woman does it is treason. I mean they're still Targaryens. They at least have the tie to the throne if you want to argue their bloodline to House Velary and Driftmark.

[00:34:49] I'm not saying I've side with Vaiman in any way but to say that they aren't heirs to the throne, you can question their legitimacy. But again I say if the King says it, Lainor says it,

[00:35:04] and they are Targaryens as much as what Renera is our Targaryen, then they are heirs to the throne. Yeah, I mean I just, and this is my modern Western way of thinking right, but I mean we have

[00:35:24] so many families that you know I touched on this a little bit on Facebook earlier today. There are so many families that can't have kids so they have them through surrogates, they have them through adoption, they have them through sperm donors or whatnot and I feel like

[00:35:43] this is that. Lainor couldn't do it. He couldn't. This was not a marriage, Renera and Lainor cared for each other but there was just no way that they were going to be able to have kids. Lainor just couldn't do it so Renera made sure to make,

[00:36:05] have it happen I guess. I mean there's really not much that you could say you know Lainor was just as in the wrong as Renera was right and Lainor treated those boys as his

[00:36:24] family. I mean you could see that there was a love between all of them when the whole family was together including Harwen. Yeah, it just baffles me that you know it's just like listen

[00:36:37] they're my family because I said that they're my family now get out of here you know stop. It's just yeah and I 100% agree with you. It's just looking at it through the modern lens is

[00:36:50] you know what doesn't apply here and I hate that because it's hard for me to not think of it that way because that's just how I view things too. It's like it doesn't make them

[00:37:04] any less your children if you like you said have them through a surrogate or a sperm donor or if you're unable to have children and you adopt a child you know it doesn't make them

[00:37:14] any less your child they are your child blood doesn't make a family. So and yeah I mean it sounds like they tried Lainor and Renera and what would it have been had he had they tried

[00:37:30] and he just for some reason was infertile himself. Right. And so this is why I like visiting fantasy realms but I wouldn't want to live there. No thank you. It's a good good argument yeah it's

[00:37:48] it's just hard to not think of it through modern modern times but I have to keep trying to remind myself that's not how the world works in Westeros. Right. It is interesting in how they are using

[00:37:59] modern themes. Yeah. And a lot of modern you know modern thinking I mean Renera is an ally right. And we've got Viserys who is a progressive who is you know named his daughter in air. Yeah rock the boat. Rock tradition yeah. Exactly. So it's just interesting because

[00:38:19] there are all of these modern themes that are so relevant today that are being interwoven in the story but we still have to like check ourselves you know it's like we still have to

[00:38:29] be like oh no but we are still women in this world so let's just back up and take it from that. It's just and Renera is such or Renes I did it. Renes is such a stark contrast to

[00:38:45] to Renera you know because Renes is just sitting back there as you said Reni waiting for the chips to fall to see which side she's going to kind of blow over to because she's been playing this game in the background as a silent observer

[00:39:02] for her entire life and Renera is just kind of thrashing through it with a machete and a thick wilderness just trying to see the end of her toes you know like it's just such a difference between the two of them it's interesting.

[00:39:15] That was an awesome metaphor. Thank you. Yeah I like it. I might have tripped through the woods this weekend with a machete myself so nice. Okay badass. Well my next point is kind of touching on Renera and kind of alluding

[00:39:36] to what you were talking about Kristen as far as progressiveness and how there's there is a little bit of I feel like you said a little sprinkling of some modern themes that

[00:39:48] we're getting in this fantasy world and medieval world and because with Renera and I want to talk specifically in the scene with her father oh gosh those the moment she had with Viserys was

[00:40:03] so touching I mean I feel like anyone who's been through a loss of a loved one and when you've got someone who has like a terminal illness and going through something like this this had to really

[00:40:16] just kind of probably really trigger something in a lot of folks what Renera and Damon were going through but those moments that Renera had with her father when she introduced him to

[00:40:30] her children that he hadn't met yet because they had been on Dragonstone and they've been gone for six years and I you know just so everyone knows and and Renera I think you mentioned it's a six-year

[00:40:40] time jump just in case anyone didn't know or didn't see it or recognize it we've jumped ahead another six years I think it's for the last time if everyone's feeling a little you know

[00:40:51] seasick if you will or you know for our motion sickness. You're going through the time warp you know like every episode should start off with let's do the time warp again. Yeah another six-year

[00:41:03] time jump but this moment. This is the last one yeah I thought it was the last one if I'm hearing correctly it should be famous last words you know I mean well there may be time jumps of a period

[00:41:17] of months but there shouldn't be time jumps of periods of years and the actors that we have are the actors we should stay with now. That's that's that was my understanding so at least

[00:41:27] you know we can get comfortable and kind of settled at least with the actors that we have as far as the ages that they are so at least we can maybe settle just a little bit but

[00:41:38] the scene with Renera when they had when they arrived and she introduces Viserys to her two children that he hasn't met yet I thought was so beautiful and to see Viserys light up meeting her children and then of course lighting up when he meets Viserys his namesake

[00:42:01] was such a beautiful moment and and then when you see Renera's other boys which we met them when they were younger and now they're young men teenagers and it really shows these differences between Renera's children and Allison's children and when you look at the family dynamics it really

[00:42:25] does appear that Renera and Damon have done a great job of having this blended family and that's what I love because there's a little sprinkling I think of of a modern element there

[00:42:39] we know Bayla has been with Rainice on Driftmark that she's her ward and she's taken her and I love that because I feel like that was really good for Rainice especially considering she lost Lena

[00:42:51] and then soon so soon after Lenore and then it sounds like Corley's ran off to battle so sounds like she's had you know time to herself so I'm sure that's really brought her some comfort

[00:43:04] having Bayla with her but they've had Raina and then Renera's three boys and then they've started to have children of their own and to see how they've blended this family and how Damon has really it looks like become a real father figure to those boys and that he

[00:43:24] really seems to care for them and the difference between how Allison has raised her children to be menace's to society um but Renera raised her son to be a king and you can see the differences

[00:43:38] in the behavior when during the dinner when Aegon kept coming at Jace and kept poking and prodding and just would not stop God I just want to punch him in his face um and Jace kept

[00:43:52] rising above and then the way that he got up and danced with Helena when we see him working hard to learn uh Hivalarian to honor his Targaryen traditions you know kind of preparing himself

[00:44:07] to you know as the heir to the throne and being a king he's taking it very seriously he's kind of being hard on himself for not picking up on it a little bit you know sooner and Renera's

[00:44:15] trying to it's okay you know you don't have to learn it all in a day just seeing the differences between the two I thought was really great and then of course Renera's moments with her father

[00:44:29] just you know we're very teary eyed and kind of seeing those differences I thought were great did you notice that um I noticed this big time in both of my watches that Renera like Renera now

[00:44:47] look almost identical to Renera Young yes like there was softer features and the hair was down and like they that you could have put a side by side on them and said yep that's exactly how she's

[00:45:01] gonna look when she gets older yes yeah I just I really really noticed I think it was like um the vulnerability in Renera yeah seeing her father like that and having to fight for her children what

[00:45:16] she thought was alone and you know trying to talk to everybody I just saw that she she's usually such a strong character but she really I mean that her her vulnerability especially this week was intense yes I think especially in this episode maybe because

[00:45:41] her visceria is dying and I think that kind of that vulnerability made her seem like a little girl again you know um and I think that maybe it was done on purpose I don't know I didn't read

[00:45:57] a whole lot of articles and behind the scenes stuff if that was on purpose but I I agree with you I think it she definitely had a more softness um and vulnerability to her and I'm sure it had a lot

[00:46:07] to do with the series' health and her pleading with him and you know there was a softness to her and they did um purposely cast Millie Alcock because she looked very much identical to

[00:46:23] Emidarsi as a young young girl well they're both killing it so oh my gosh yes yeah anyway um anything else um on that remit nope not for the moment okay is it is it my turn to you Kristen yeah okay um

[00:46:50] there's like a lot that I want to talk about I know that all three of us are gonna have a nice long discussion about Allison a little later so much I'm just gonna leave that to the side um

[00:47:04] um I want to talk I have all these notes and I'm trying to like see which one I want to do um so let's let's talk about these boys these these high tower boys Agon and Amond

[00:47:25] um Amond I can tell is going to be a fantastic character the problem is he looks 30 I know interesting choice in casting daemon's mini me mm-hmm so that actor is uh Ewan Mitchell is his name he was in the last kingdom

[00:47:52] and he played a character named Ospreth in the last kingdom who was a sweet affable guy who everybody just wanted to protect and take care of and no so I at first I had a little

[00:48:11] bit of trouble wrapping my head around him as Amond but he's so perfect I don't care that he's taller than everybody else and that is at least 10 years younger 10 years older than his older brother

[00:48:26] yeah he he sold me he's fantastic I completely agree with you I think that he's doing he he really like it's kind of like you're right it's kind of like daemon like the first time we

[00:48:39] see daemon you get a good idea about this character and he is going to be a force to be reckoned with and you get that same feeling from Aiment if you haven't even read the books

[00:48:49] if you know nothing else other than what you've seen he just he shows up he's fighting against you know a what is that a ball and chain or whatever it's called a mace um yeah yeah it's cool

[00:49:02] it's called a morning star a mace a mace or a morning star okay so he's I didn't know that okay um so he's fighting chris and coal against that ball and chain mace morning star

[00:49:20] and um you know not only does he handily um you know fight him off but then at the end he's like I don't care about turnies and then he's like nephews you here to train

[00:49:31] like he was just this singing he knew exactly where they were he knew that they were there this man's got one eye you know he's very silent but um but he's scary like he's his one eye is very

[00:49:46] wild very intense you know um you really don't know what's gonna come of him and and I dig that and I'm fearful of it all at the same time um whereas in stark contrast you have Aegon who is

[00:50:03] as far as allicent is concerned going to be the next king and he is a freaking disaster he is a human disaster and they're both these products of a loveless mother and father you know they've kind

[00:50:21] of been let loose to just do whatever they please and you can see that like they're both they're both extremely terrible people but they're terrible terrible people they could have been good

[00:50:36] right I mean if they were raised with some love and some attention maybe no I don't know if Aegon I don't know I I I don't know if they're I don't know I feel the way allicent has raised him

[00:50:57] and poisoned him it's it's a whole and it's everyone it's it's it's no secret I am team black but I am not blind to everyone's faults no one is perfect and everybody does terrible things

[00:51:12] however I really think allicent has with all of this generational trauma has really poisoned Aegon and I really do blame her for a lot of how he's turned out although I've I've seen really great

[00:51:27] people really great parents whose children have turned into shit and there's like no explanation because you're like how did that happen these are really great people great parents and so I I don't know but I I'm blaming Allison here this one you know and by extension Otto right

[00:51:44] for sure yes yeah Otto has no love really for his daughter other than using her as a pawn for power and ambition you know his own ambition much like Corliss did with his son uh Lenore right um

[00:52:00] but Allicent was a very young girl and she was married um and you know then she became a mom very young and maybe nobody taught her to be a mom maybe all the like nurses and stuff or the

[00:52:15] you know what nurses and ladies and waiting or whatever just kind of took them away um took took the babies away and she just like never really had to develop a motherly instinct and now she's just paying for it because I mean her icy line also when she's

[00:52:30] like you are no son of mine and it's weird because Aegon did not care at all about this poor girl Diana um until she said until Allison was like you're no son of mine you know you're

[00:52:47] trash to me or you're nothing whatever and then he's like oh but I always try to do so good but nothing's ever good enough and you're like no no sh be quiet well you know the interesting thing is that Otto has been there Otto is these boys grandfather

[00:53:05] Otto wants Aegon to be king you would think that Otto would have stepped in and served as some sort of father figure to Aegon and Aamond uh since Viserys wasn't really capable of doing that

[00:53:21] to make sure that they were king material and he didn't do that right and on well I agree well and because that's what he wants I I I don't think I know that that's what Allison has been

[00:53:39] trying to do and I know that's what Otto wants I don't see Viserys training him to be king um because he's not the heir however he should at least still he is still a Targaryen he is still

[00:53:52] a prince of the realm and should be um upheld as such right and made to exude a certain you know figure at court and for the realm to to to you know do for the realm to serve the realm

[00:54:10] even if he's not he should have at least been a cup bearer don't you think yeah yeah if you yeah absolutely you know in this pseudo medieval kind of setting there's this concept of an air the

[00:54:24] air and a spare yeah because you never know when your air might die of a disease or in a battle or to Harrison Alice Ains children yes yeah all to Harrison Alice Ains children's terrible fates

[00:54:37] right yeah and so even if you are a second son like Daemon was or the first son but not the air like Aegon is your family should be raising you with the possibility that if your elder sibling dies and

[00:54:58] does not become monarch that you would be ready to step in and do it and later later in the timeline in the Targaryen family we have a king called Aegon the unlikely who's called that because

[00:55:12] he's the fourth son of a fourth son and so know what it would have thought that he would end up being king but everybody in line before him died so he did end up being king and that's you know at the

[00:55:23] forefront of everybody's mind so it would make sense for Viserys to you're right coach him as the spare not the air but the spare yeah that's that's a good point I totally forgot thinking about

[00:55:36] like you said the air and the spare and considering the times that that they do live in and now that I'm thinking about like Jaehaerys' children and out of the 14 how many I don't think this is

[00:55:46] spoilery because since this all happens before it's just history um but you know knowing how he outlived because he lived too long and ruled too long he outlived all of his heirs um and and yeah

[00:56:00] you just don't know in these times with because there's no modern medicine there could be a war there could be so many things that can happen right and and yeah you're right it's

[00:56:10] Rhaenyra is the air however they should be raising all of their children at one time or another for the potential of needing to step up if something happened to Rhaenyra

[00:56:21] so yep I'm I stay in character so let me ask you both a question then um would you consider Aegon then since Rhaenyra has been named the air would you consider Aegon to be a second son yes freaking second son syndrome on this show

[00:56:43] right because we would on that face value you would say Aamund is the second son right but really it's Aegon um so you know that's an interesting way to also look at that because

[00:56:57] you see all the second sons in this entire show and um and you know there's really there's something there there I think there's a podcast episode in there to just compare and contrast all of the

[00:57:10] second son the second sons second son so well you know there's an an entire sell sword company called the second sons right uh yeah Dario Dario I miss you Dario so much

[00:57:27] all the time he knew his place damn it yes he did he knew his place he totally did yes unlike Kristen Cole he was perfectly willing to just be the boy toy yeah he's like it's fine

[00:57:41] well I mean your duty so good Kristen Cole and Allison Hightower man those two ruined everything although I I put all the blame on Otto yes that's a perfect place to put it yeah Otto and I have to

[00:57:57] I hate to battle Viserys too he's got to take some oh yeah he I he really should have been more firm um as king and I think it would have made a bit of a difference but yeah Otto for sure

[00:58:16] bad dude so you know we have we have Aegon and Aamund and then we have our sweet little Helena who just wants to dance and I just love her so much I don't know if you saw but during uh during

[00:58:33] the throne room scene when Damon just the the peach of a human that he is slices off Vaman's head um everybody like gasps and Helena puts her hands over her ears yeah and I just that I thought

[00:58:53] that was so cute because it's like she kind of didn't know what to do but at the same time you know as somebody who has had a lot of prophecy um just musings and the things that she says you

[00:59:05] know have really come to pass I'm wondering like what does she hear right yeah is she hearing something that we're not really privy to um you know was there something else that was happening

[00:59:19] with her or is she just kind of like a simple minded you know girl and she you know put her hands on her ears because she didn't know that she should have maybe done it on her eyes or

[00:59:29] something I don't know I don't know but I'm calling on all members of team black um to can we please save Helena can we can we rescue her please she does not belong on that side

[00:59:44] yes they need to they need to kidnap her yes and take her to drag and stone yes she's too sweet for this world and uh I really like her um she was really funny at the I don't I know

[01:00:01] she didn't mean to be but she was funny at the dinner um and she clearly likes she clearly likes her valerian nephews better than she likes her brother, husband and other

[01:00:14] brother so yeah she might be happy to be with him yeah no kidding but you know did you notice that Otto do you think Otto was like encouraging her like he's a doting grandfather for her but

[01:00:27] or was he just kind of like clapping at what she said like sarcastically or condescendingly that's a great question of all the characters at the at the banquet Otto was the one that I have the least read on because he didn't look

[01:00:48] unhappy and I thought that he should have not been happy about all this um um peace love and understanding that was going on mm-hmm yeah he was a hard one to read I don't

[01:01:05] it was it wasn't explicit but it felt like when I think it was when Allison was toasting Raniera and said that she would be a good queen and everyone was toasting to her and took

[01:01:19] a drink I don't think Otto I think Otto was the one that didn't um it was hard to tell I didn't touch that yeah but I think yeah he did not and he was hard to read I was like I don't know where

[01:01:33] I don't know what you're doing there Otto I can't quite figure out what your what your game is during this I don't know if he's just placating because the king was there um so it's true yeah okay um I think we're back to the top with

[01:01:51] Renny all right uh my third point is prophecies are a double-edged sword that is something that George R. R. Martin said and uh Tyrion Lannister says prophecy is like

[01:02:06] a half trained mule it looks as though it might be useful but the moment you trust in it it kicks you in the head that's really good which is exactly what happens when Viserys it's actually saying his

[01:02:24] last words to Allison because he thinks he's speaking to Raniera and he talks about the prophecy and the prince that says Aegon meaning Aegon's prophecy Aegon the conqueror's prophecy but Allison thinks he means Aegon their son and it says the prince that was promised

[01:02:49] it is you and he's saying that to Raniera yeah but Allison thinks that he's saying to her it is you you must unite the realm and Allison fills in by making our son Aegon king

[01:03:07] and and she jumps up and she says I will do it and so the prophecy has backfired it has created a terrible situation because they tease us with this Allison and Raniera scene where Raniera says

[01:03:30] I'll come back I'll fly back on my dragon and Allison says your father and I would welcome that and it seems that for this moment there may be a possibility of peace between Allison and Raniera

[01:03:44] mm-hmm Allison has said you will make a fine queen and I read her as sincere when she says that I do too I don't know if I did to Otto would have let her follow through with that but she seems sincere

[01:03:58] in that moment yeah and then all of that is swept away when she hears what Viserys is saying thinking he's speaking to Raniera and that sets her on a different or confirms her

[01:04:18] on a different path than the one she might have gone down so the prophecy is part of what is creating this conflict which is not what it was intended to do it has like the mule kicked Viserys in the head so

[01:04:44] I thought that was just a fascinating twist yes and then Viserys is last very last words I couldn't make out what he said until my second watch which I did with the subtitles on

[01:04:58] he said my love and I think that was addressed to Emma yes I agree so Allison was completely out I mean he was completely unaware that Allison was even there she was not on his mind

[01:05:16] she was not in his world at that point and he kind of spilled the beans thinking that he was talking to somebody else so classic it's a classic tragic setup of a misunderstood message

[01:05:35] or a misdirected message yes yeah and that's the second time that he's done that with Allison maybe not dealing with the prophecy but when he was having when he was kind of wavering

[01:05:51] um what was it a few episodes ago it was the funeral when he told her yes I'm going to bed Emma I'm going to bed Emma oh no I meant even before that when it was still our first Allison

[01:06:07] and um and forget where they were but he had started to kind of waver a little bit on whether or not he was right to name Reneira his heir and that kind of changed everything for Allison

[01:06:25] from then on because she thought that he was she was doing the will of of the series I think that that gave her it not that she was doing the will of it but it

[01:06:38] justified her actions in her mind from then on right and then now here we are to you know fast forward to his death and you have the same thing that's going on where he's

[01:06:51] he thinks rather than he thinks he's like you know talking to his wife who's supposed to be like his confidant he's um he thinks he's talking to Reneira and really it baffles me that he

[01:07:07] wouldn't at least tell one other person about this prophecy about this dream and why do more people not know about this why is it that this prophecy has to die with one person each

[01:07:20] generation like I mean it makes no sense to me well it's it's I mean it's not in the book and so what they did here no the show and I guess I don't know if it's spoiler to say that or not

[01:07:30] shoot I might have spilled the beans there um but they because it's not and they've introduced it only in the show we don't really have any context other than what they're telling us in

[01:07:41] the show and it seems seems like it's just strictly passed from air to air only from agon and then down which leaves a little bit of you know when you look at uh the the kings

[01:07:55] that we've had since agon you're kind of like well how did this one get that information when you look some of the circumstances of how this one became the air and how some of them died

[01:08:04] and so on which I won't get into but we don't know it's it's just from air to air so the series wouldn't be able to tell anyone except for his air which in this case was reniera

[01:08:18] it's just something do you think that do you think that reniera will now tell jace I don't know it's I don't have any context for it but I would assume she would right I would maybe

[01:08:35] maybe with what's with what's to come um maybe she will I don't know hmm which well I hope she tells someone yeah that was a heartbreaking scene because and that's you know and I think that's who

[01:08:56] viscerius thought he was talking to there well with allison not there at the end I do think he was uh when he was alone and I think he was talking to Emma but when allison was there

[01:09:07] I think he thought that it was reniera because she had been pleading with him which was so heartbreaking you know and she's pleading with him like you know I need you to be there for me and I need you

[01:09:17] to tell me that this is what I'm supposed to be doing because I don't think reniera wanted to be the air I think she was pretty content to be on dragonstone being with her children being

[01:09:28] with daemon and living her life she had a good you know you can have a good life being a member of the royal family without having to be heir to the throne and I think she was wavering in

[01:09:38] that moment and viscerius was still pretty out of it I think in that moment wasn't quite able to communicate very well with her and he picks up that conversation where they left off um you

[01:09:50] know to tell her that she does have to do it and he thinks he's telling her and then she's he's saying that to allison which changes things changes everything and as it's happening I'm

[01:10:03] like oh no no no I know and that's that stop it I know oh my gosh you just want to hold well viscerius please you know I mean you you it's hard to be you can't really be mad at him he's so

[01:10:18] um drugged up and in so much pain and just doesn't know um in his mind is probably also with whatever illness he has probably partially gone to maybe um but I know alicent hearing this

[01:10:35] prophecy was was my next point now I want to be really careful because I don't want to talk any book spoilers or anything so we probably will talk about it and book talks so I want to

[01:10:43] be really careful but um alicent hearing what she did from viscerius before he died does does not change I think what happens next she heard what she wanted to hear

[01:10:59] uh she true yeah she oh yes she heard agon she assumes her son that is what she wanted to hear listen alicent is not stupid so any anyone that thinks otherwise alicent is not stupid she

[01:11:14] hears prince that was promised she assumes her son again it's what she wants to hear there has been bad blood within this family for the last 15 to 20 years and all that is passed down from from those

[01:11:27] generations is is is the cause of what happens next it that is why what's going to happen next was going to happen regardless of what alicent heard she just heard what she wanted to hear

[01:11:42] I don't want to simplify the events that are to come based on alicent's misunderstanding of what she heard the conflict is because the patriarchy exists the series broke the custom not law

[01:11:56] he broke custom by naming renera his heir the series changed their culture and that is the conflict yeah so that's an that's a an interesting question so vehement it takes the extreme interpretation of the great council of 101 that by dismissing reines as a candidate because she's

[01:12:27] female that that extends to always and for all time no woman can ever sit the iron throne and in addition to that that the throne cannot pass through a woman to her children that it

[01:12:44] has to pass through the male line right the great council did not explicitly state that but that is the self-serving interpretation that some lords follow mm-hmm I knew you'd have a good good explanation for that yeah because I think there's misunderstanding there and I think that

[01:13:14] because what we saw there at that banquet where it seemed like the olive branches were extended and maybe there was going to be some peace and alicent you know being like okay this this is

[01:13:30] you know I think you're going to be a good queen and you know they're putting on this show for the series um and then all of a sudden it's like oh all of a sudden she changes her mind because

[01:13:42] she hears agon is you know the prince that was promised and no she she heard what she wanted to hear um and I just I think it's again I'm gonna shut up because it's gonna we'll talk about in

[01:13:59] book talk but I just want to kind of make that point so yeah I I think it's a really good point too so I'm excited to expand on that a little bit in book talk because again it can get

[01:14:10] a little uh a little just just a little too booky yeah I have for lack of a better word I like it I like it um but anyway that was that was my point kind of going into what what Renny said so Kristen

[01:14:27] did you have another point you know what I just wanted to honestly I really wanted to just talk about the most intense family dinner of the night for sure um you know I do have one thing

[01:14:43] that I want to talk about later in book talk because it and it was the comment that Helena made uh at the dinner table I think that that should be tabled tabled uh for book talk but um

[01:14:55] you know I loved this family dinner so much because how many Thanksgiving dinners has anybody been to in their life where you just want to die the whole time that you're there you're like

[01:15:09] why am I with these beautiful yeah stakes not quite as high but yeah definitely some awkwardness shared right but it had that whole feeling of of the awkward Thanksgiving dinner yeah right

[01:15:24] where and you know for people that are not in America um you know I'm sure you you know what our American Thanksgiving is like but any holiday family dinner um and it's just so funny to me because

[01:15:38] you have you know the step the stepmother and the stepdaughter who are like barely looking at each other and you have these kids who have heard the adults in their lives talk about the other

[01:15:47] kids and the other family members and they're just like going they're just you know acting accordingly to where they see is appropriate from their family and then you know you have like the silent weird uncle in the corner in Otto Hightower who's just kind of like drinking

[01:16:04] and watching everything happen and it's it's just it sets this the mood of this is just so tense in the very beginning and it's so strange to me how it just goes up and down and up and it flows

[01:16:20] into this like tense and then relaxed and then tensed and then relaxed and then at the very end everything just goes wrong because a pig is brought out to the table and yeah and amen can't

[01:16:33] handle it he's so fragile you know the actor is amazing I think perfect to play the character of amond and I bet in my opinion as tough as he is as he portrays himself you know fighting in the yard

[01:16:48] he gets to ride the biggest dragon in westeros his bravado is just a facade for his fragile ego dude was triggered when they set that pig down and Luke snickered about it and I still see and my thing

[01:17:01] was I saw Luke kind of laughing like oh remember when that happened like almost like nervous laughter or something I didn't see it as mean but I'm probably wrong because I want to believe the best

[01:17:12] in children I think I think you could maybe take it either way and that's what's great is about perception right everyone's probably got a little bit of a different perspective I don't think you're

[01:17:21] wrong in that I would like to think better of Luke because I feel like they're probably better acting children than amond and agon but yeah you're probably right um so I I just um you know I I very much thought I don't think that it was

[01:17:45] was pomp and circumstance or you know I don't think that Alice and Reneara were saying anything that wasn't sincere um I think that Viserys standing up taking his mask off and talking to his family

[01:18:01] in the kind of decrepit way that he was to just show what this family strife has really done to him physically um was very striking I'm not sure if it had much of an effect on the

[01:18:17] children but I think it did have an effect on Reneara and Allison and maybe that was the intent of the series um you know he strips himself down and he says don't

[01:18:31] if you're not going to do this for your king please do this for your father your husband your grand sire do this for the man that I am and what I mean to you you know and for half of that

[01:18:44] table I really think that that strikes a chord in them but I'm not sure that agon and amond and even maybe even Helena really feel that much of a parental bond with Viserys

[01:18:58] and so I'm not sure if that had the intended effect on the three of them which is why you know amond was so ready to you know stop all the niceties and you know call them strong boys

[01:19:16] so so you really see kind of again you see the two families and just how completely different and how far apart they are and when everybody's brought to the table there is a want by

[01:19:33] the older generation to put it all back together but I think that the damage is just it's too little too late this is a conversation in a dinner that should have happened 10 years ago 15 years ago um yeah this was a day late in a dollar short and

[01:19:52] and I feel like the attitudes what you were talking about with agon and amond and Helena she's an odd girl at the moment I haven't I haven't quite put my finger on her yet and to see if she's

[01:20:07] kind of simple or just innocent I haven't quite figured it out but um either way the two boys I feel like a lot of that again I'm gonna start blaming Alison here

[01:20:19] sound like a broken record but I feel like that started a long time ago we saw little sprinkles of how she very much just didn't quite respect um a lot of what Viserys would

[01:20:32] say she would overrule him a lot and I think that she kind of put that seed into the boys too and I think that it shows here that they don't really what he's saying doesn't really have an

[01:20:42] effect on them because they don't respect him and that comes from Alison I don't think that she she guided them enough and I think he's probably been in some poor health maybe he

[01:20:52] hasn't been able to spend the time with him or time with this children you know that he maybe would have wanted to um had he been in better health but I think a lot of that is is Alison

[01:21:03] and maybe Otto too I think that they're you know they would probably listen to them maybe but I don't know that they would that anything that Viserys would say would strike a chord

[01:21:11] with them like it's meant to right right yeah I agree with that with that um one of my favorite lines uh was something that I didn't catch until the second watch when Amond said to um Aegon you drink more than a bravo a bravo CC Lord

[01:21:35] and Aegon was just like I drink I drink just the right amount man so I thought that was hilarious um but yeah I mean I just that that dinner scene was an interesting one for sure I loved the dancing I loved uh

[01:21:57] I love the reconciliation and then of course you kind of saw it break apart at the end and I think that that's really uh that's really a nod to the fact that it it's all broken all of it no

[01:22:11] matter what they do it's not gonna it's not gonna get fixed it's always gonna be broken and you see that happening at the end of this dinner you see that happening at the end of this episode

[01:22:22] you see that happening in the trailer for next week you just know that things are just not going to be all hunky dory well and and it was just all the more heartbreaking

[01:22:35] you know visceris I think it took me a minute to understand visceris's feelings at that table as everyone is he's watching everyone and everyone is like said there's dancing there's uh conversation there's laugh laughter and looks like a good camaraderie looks like maybe

[01:22:54] what he said to them struck that chord and now oh look everyone's getting along when I think really he's looking around and he all these feelings that he's having is more of it's too late look look

[01:23:09] look what I've done or maybe look what I haven't done and what I should have done sooner was to try to get the family together and he knows that it's too late and I think that he knows

[01:23:20] that what he's seeing isn't real and it's too late and he's in despair I think in in those final moments before he's carried away it was so heartbreaking my my heart just just broke

[01:23:34] all over for visceris in this whole episode yeah I would agree with that I would definitely agree with that um so I think that does anybody have any other points before we move into alicent

[01:23:56] no I have a few notes here and there but I think I'm ready to dig in all right yes do this yes so earlier today I was on um Facebook and I'm never on Facebook so this was very exciting

[01:24:14] for me to be on Facebook and I saw that one of our one of the listeners um he who put the uh she had um kind of a long post to say about about alicent um and I'm trying to see where it is I'm

[01:24:33] sorry um so she is very much um you know as she says team alicent or team green and she was she's really surprised that none of us are team green or team alicent and she's not a book reader so

[01:24:49] I do know that that probably has a lot to do with it but maybe not um you know and she gives she gives reasonings that you know alicent followed her duty and her loyalty and her virtue um

[01:25:03] you know there's she thinks she's done everything right um alicent thinks that she's done everything right that she was supposed to do and she sees Renea as kind of the spoiled brat that

[01:25:11] does whatever she wants and doesn't get hold accountable for that and so there were a lot of comments underneath it um and I thought that it was a really good discussion so I thought it would

[01:25:22] be good for us to have kind of a discussion about alicent because I think that we're at a time where alicent in my mind doesn't have a lot of redeeming qualities but I see that she does

[01:25:35] have redeeming qualities to other people and I respect that and I did see that in the scene with her and Dana Diana Diana uh Deona with Diana and Deona I thought I don't know the one who was

[01:25:55] right yeah you know I thought she was very soft with her and very kind um even though she was cleaning up Aegon's mess and so you know she doesn't think that she poisoned her

[01:26:07] I thought totally that she poisoned her but she didn't fall to the ground so if you don't see it on the screen it doesn't happen right it was it was it was it was right tea well it could

[01:26:15] have been moon tea or it could have been poison that was not instant acting poison it's possible I thought the same thing to be quite honest I thought oh she's gonna poison her so that that

[01:26:29] story doesn't get out but I don't know I guess if we see her again but why would she give her money to keep her calm to make her think that she's not being poisoned so she'll drink it

[01:26:42] to make her think oh it's only moon tea so it's okay if I drink this that's interesting well so why don't you guys talk about um kind of your notes on alicent and what you think so far because I think I've been pretty vocal about how I feel

[01:27:01] well I have thoughts I'm gonna probably piss off a lot of team green uh so I'm okay with that but um Renny why don't um let's just go go keep in order here if you would like to to go first

[01:27:18] if you have some thoughts about Allison or point about Allison specifically you know I think it's it's difficult if your show only to make the transition from young Allison to adult Allison because young Allison was completely a sympathetic character yes she was

[01:27:38] she was sweet I loved the relationship between her and Reneera she was dutiful um and yes she always believed that she was doing the right thing and mad because other people could get away with things that were not the right thing

[01:27:55] but even when she's still young Allison we start to see her inflexibility come out um in her utter condemnation of Reneera because she uh may have committed some transgression right yeah even before Kristen Cole confirms

[01:28:25] for Allison that they had sex Allison is just so rigid when she's talking with Reneera um that that's our first glimpse of adult Allison and that she's just continued to harden as she has grown older and had this you know difficult life that is completely devoted to

[01:28:49] service and duty and her rigidity um keeps her from being a good parent to her sons and also she doesn't wise and up as she gets older she continues to let her father auto manipulate her

[01:29:11] and she never is able to use her own judgment and then we do see the dagger scene where she wants to take out a child's eye herself because everybody else has refused to do it for her the literal eye for nigh justice so if I'm surprised that people's

[01:29:39] sympathies for her have not been troubled by that episode at least that's that's a that's a really good point yep yeah marima well like I said I've I've made my position very clear in who I support

[01:30:01] and I admit the show is it's giving us sides or at least definitive answers to parts of the story that we didn't get in the book um and so I can I understand if you're not a book reader

[01:30:20] why you would lean maybe uh towards feeling sympathy for Allison I I resonated with with young Allison as well I thought the life that they brought to that character was fantastic um

[01:30:37] but Allison is not redeemable irredeemable to me because of this or really any episode I don't see any redeemable qualities at this point if if she truly believed what she heard from the series

[01:30:51] when she heard the prophecy I know she didn't understand what she was hearing um but she was taking that and running with it and she tossed aside what she said at the dinner about

[01:31:02] supporting Reneira and then she still decides to support her son and put a drunken rapist who is wildly incompetent to roll over Reneira that looks that makes her look worse to me not redeemable

[01:31:22] hmm I I agree and this religious persona that she has taken on which I was surprised to see that and I'm sure probably talk about in book talk but I was kind of surprised by this

[01:31:37] but I think that she has taken this on and it serves a couple of different purposes I think that she uses that to soften her persona while she sits on the throne in the

[01:31:49] series as absence to give her this appearance of having these strong convictions and willing to back them up and I think it um she personifies this and how she dresses she's now wearing this big

[01:32:02] giant seven star pendant these these chunky gold chains that drape across her um in the front almost like armor and I think that she uses that so she can look virtuous to those also that

[01:32:16] witnessed her slice Reneira on their arms six years ago um oh I think you're very right about that yeah yeah and also a virtuous to the servant girl she pays her off uh because her son raped them

[01:32:32] um and the seven pointed star that hangs in the halls is part of managing her image uh and as Damon puts it she's removed all of this Targaryen heraldry and I think in a way it was

[01:32:48] intentional in a way almost basically saying that Targaryens are no longer welcome at the red keep mm-hmm um and in my opinion Allison has convinced herself she is a victim and thinks that she

[01:33:01] deserves power because she did all the right things and she made sacrifices but I think she's a hypocrite handing out moon tea uh to servant girls so they aren't having bastards to

[01:33:12] mess up the succession um and religion will not save her and I want everyone to remember that those that were killed the last time that the religion was brought up to the forefront and

[01:33:24] brought into the game you know how did that how well did that work out oh yes so I I just want to make very clear that my the reason that I am team black is because Rhaenyra is the named heir

[01:33:39] she is the heir yes mm-hmm yes and I think that that's really important to remember I you know fact that that isn't just you know what we're dealing with and and that isn't just the hard

[01:33:55] truth it's been the truth for for what 20 years I think yeah right this isn't a question anymore you know and if they really wanted you know true born heirs there's agon and visceris that

[01:34:10] you know her and and daemon had if everybody wants to just skip over the first three boys whatever but she is the named heir I completely agree with you that's that was that was my

[01:34:21] sticking point whenever I you know when I read the book first before the show ever came along and that was it for me yeah ends there so it's interesting that you said all that you said

[01:34:35] Rima because I think that it's really kind of relevant to today's world a little bit where there's a lot of hiding behind religion to create an image of yourself that maybe isn't

[01:34:49] the same as behind closed doors and kind of the rules apply to everyone else but not for me because I'm saved by God yeah um and I think that when you see that hypocrisy so blatantly on the

[01:35:07] screen um and then you kind of see it in your everyday life especially in in in these times that we're living in right now you know it's very difficult at least for me and it sounds like for

[01:35:19] you too Rima yeah I have a problem to be okay with any of that you know what I mean um so I love what you're saying about that because I think that you're you're right on with all of that um

[01:35:34] and you and Renny I mean she is the named heir yeah I mean that mm-hmm discussion should end there yeah that's it um I do want to read this one thing that we

[01:35:46] got as an email from uh one of our listeners um her name is Jodi I didn't get your last name on here I'm so sorry Jodi but she said that um she offered the thoughts of Vera the dragon

[01:36:04] um who is a sponsored page or something like that but it's a twitter user by the name of Vera the dragon and she tweeted something on allicent and she wanted to share it with us because she

[01:36:16] thought it was a really really good explanation of of all of this especially with allicent so it says here this is what the tweet said Alice in the show allicent in the show was a victim

[01:36:31] she then turned around and decided to destroy someone as she claimed that she claimed to love because that person wasn't suffering her fate it she had become a tool to the system that victimized

[01:36:42] her she is a caricature a caricature of if I cannot be happy I would destroy those who are I am moral and good and any who do not follow the rules as I play them are evil and wretched

[01:36:55] allicent cannot handle that renira refuses to bow to men's rule in the way that she did and defies that which broke her it threatens her worldview and sense of self so she opts to tear

[01:37:06] renira down and destroy her her trauma is valid and sad but there comes a point where the abuse you have suffered does not and cannot excuse what you do she has pressed past that point

[01:37:20] renira tried to make peace in a way that would have united their families to and protected allicent's children and allicent rejected it out of spite in the eyes of coreless Lenore and visceri's the kind visceri's the kind renira's sons are legitimate legally that means

[01:37:39] that they are the only one insulted by them is allicent so she poisons herself against them and passes it on to her children renira is cunning charming politically minded averting daemon's depravity putting forward genuinely good ideas in the small council and a loving mother

[01:37:58] as she fights for her happiness allicent looks at renira and sees everything that she is not cannot be and cannot have she ignited a war that never needed to happen hmm yeah i think that is very interesting i think that allicent is a victim of patriarchy

[01:38:19] and i think that renira is a victim of patriarchy as well yeah see i don't i don't think i i talk a lot of bad crap about allicent i know that but i do think i don't think she's evil

[01:38:32] i think she's extremely tragic she's a tragic figure and a victim of the patriarchy and you know renira's dilemma is that she as the heir she needs to have heirs of her own

[01:38:50] and for a man like henry the eighth who doesn't get the heirs he wants he can keep divorcing executing executing uh executing and and i'm going through the six wives two of them were executed one died in childbirth first one was divorced then execution then death and childbirth

[01:39:15] then execution again but you know why the two who were executed were executed they were executed for adultery because they were trying to get pregnant by men who didn't have a fertility problem

[01:39:29] they were not getting pregnant with henry and if they didn't produce heirs then they knew that they were in trouble so that's the place that renira finds herself in she has to have heirs

[01:39:41] but the only way to have them is to have children herself and if she has a husband who can't give her children because he's infertile or because they can't manage to have sex often enough to

[01:39:54] get her pregnant or whatever the situation is um then if she goes outside of marriage to get pregnant the way that anbelin did um then she's putting herself at risk because she's committing treason

[01:40:15] in a way a man who has sex out of marriage is not so that's that's the difficulty for renira in in terms of her her own position and that's why christin they can't skip over um luke jace

[01:40:36] and joffrey and just take right right on the younger as the air because it would be admitting that renina renira had committed treason because she committed adultery right adultery is treason for a woman and not for a man and that is one of the horrors of patriarchy

[01:40:58] you're absolutely right and it's so easy to you know hate on allicent or hate on renira or you know hate on them hating on each other but really what it is is it's these i love the

[01:41:13] female perspective of this show so much because i really feel that we do see this show through a female lens um and the men are making all these decisions and placing these women as ponds in

[01:41:25] their little game and when it doesn't when the ponds start to like you know fight back a little bit then everybody acts horrified like wait a minute you're not supposed to talk back

[01:41:34] you're just supposed to be there so um yeah i have so few too that step up and say the right thing what was it lord is it was a beesberry oh god there's so many names and during the council when

[01:41:47] they when it was first mentioned that you know everybody's coming to core and this is what we're going to be talking about and he's like well it's my understanding corollus already named

[01:41:58] you know uh uh luke as his heir and they're like well we know that's not right because blah blah but you know they're kind of hinting around at his legitimacy and then like well and how skilled

[01:42:09] is he you know he hasn't spent time at drift mark what does he know about sailing ships and he's like well what does um what does that have to do with the fact that he's been named air this

[01:42:20] this i can't remember exactly what he said but he said it so well and i'm like thank you you know he's standing up for what's right this is what corollus wanted corollus you know

[01:42:30] considers him his heir why are we even talking about this and um so i love that moment where we at least get some hints here of you know people in my opinion saying the right thing

[01:42:43] yes that was lord beesberry thank you the the 80 year old master of coin yeah more about him probably in book talk yes more about him in book talk we keep promoting book talk we're we're we're i know we're we're definitely swing we've got a lot more people

[01:43:03] that have jumped on jumped on board i i love all the comments that we get and pick people showing pictures of their book while i i caved in and i i got it or they got the audio book

[01:43:13] and i just say welcome we we we're we're happy you're here welcome what took you so long he's waiting for you just just trying to encourage more to uh you know get into it but anyway um yeah

[01:43:27] more about him probably later so yeah friggin friggin patriarchy in the show friggin patriarchy um okay i don't know if anybody has anything else that they want to say about the episode

[01:43:45] that isn't in book talk so i thought maybe we just this is a good point to wrap it up here or i just have one observation oh absolutely go for it there were no dragons in this episode

[01:43:56] except for eggs yeah and you know i think considering how great this episode was i mean dragons were missed but um it was such a fantastic episode i was okay with it i'll let it go this time i'll let

[01:44:12] it go the eggs were fascinating they were clearly inspired by aliens yes i thought that was cool to kind of get to see that i that's not how i thought dragon eggs were found and and searched

[01:44:28] and hunted for i thought it was poop and still he got up until he got the chisel out yeah yeah i was like what are you doing and he's chiseling away from it i way at it i realized

[01:44:38] he was digging out eggs and i was thinking daemon get away a face hugger is gonna leap out of there waiting for it to like peel open very very sinister exactly i love aliens so much

[01:44:54] i i have a couple of notes are you wanting to jump are we ready for notes is it okay to talk about notes yeah yeah go for it i'll make this quick um so we've talked about well i know

[01:45:05] we've talked about veyman's i mean that was a great scene just that in of itself and with daemon when he's gosh right before he calls those children bastards and daemon's just like staring him down

[01:45:16] and he just very quietly says say it oh man oh gosh daemon had such a good episode with very little lines again i know i know that smith he is the best quiet character ever and in the

[01:45:35] totally god he's killing it he's gosh he's just so personifying daemon in such a fantastic way and yeah in such a quiet manner like he doesn't need the dialogue he's his eyes and his face

[01:45:48] um in his demeanor and yeah when he takes out veyman that was amazing um during the banquet scene when all the boys are you know about to go at it and a man is

[01:46:01] is very getting aggressive towards the boys and daemon steps in front of him and he just stares at a man like what you're gonna do you know oh man and a man just stares at him

[01:46:13] and i swear there's this admiration that aamond has totally and you can see it i mean and you saw it whenever daemon took out veyman oh gosh all these names um sound like uh he he just

[01:46:27] had aamond has this constant like little smirk on his face it never stops he in his face it always remains the same it's so fascinating this actor what he's um doing with the character

[01:46:39] but he i swear he had this look of admiration for him when he did that in the throne room when he um took off aamond's head and then you could definitely see he wasn't ready to take him on

[01:46:49] um yeah during the banquet so i think really fascinating and um i'm excited to talk more about him in book talk um core lease we've talked about him a little bit but i'm really bummed

[01:47:01] that we didn't get all of this action that they mentioned on screen he gets his throat cut is thrown overboard and wow uh i'm thinking well this sounds like an adventure why didn't we get

[01:47:14] this on screen so kind of bummed that we didn't get that um talia was in the room with alison when she was talking to the servant girl she showed up to meseria did we catch that so

[01:47:29] what's going on there i think that meseria is becoming the uh priestess of whispers yeah she's she's got something going on but does she who is she working for who she working with

[01:47:44] do you think she's working with daemon maybe or maybe yeah maybe i thought that it was daemon walking up to her anyways what's that famous cloak over the head he's when he when i know and i said

[01:48:01] yeah i even said the daemon yeah i told dav i said oh daemon's got some killing to do when daemon said no good he's got the his magical cloak i need a magical cloak no kidding where can i get one

[01:48:16] of those when i feel like i'm up to no good um reminds me that kermit meme um really made me sad viserius's lego set of all the velaria had cobwebs on it

[01:48:32] yeah man that's all he wanted to do was play with his lego set and clearly had not been able to do that for so long due to his health really broke my heart but it was really cool to see

[01:48:43] how much it had expanded you can see the uh how it's grown since we first saw him working on it and man i really would just love to study that because considering that's supposed to be

[01:48:54] like blueprint like he had like blueprints of like old velaria uh i wish i could have studied that a little bit more to kind of get an idea of what old velaria looked like before the doom

[01:49:07] mm-hmm um did you see the cobwebs all over it though it's been abandoned for a really long time yes yeah freaking sad um showing you know clearly he's been in some poor health for some time

[01:49:21] um it hasn't been able to to continue um i thought it was interesting that the snub for daemon and rinneara when they showed up to king's landing uh that they did not get an official

[01:49:34] welcome that it was auto uh and not allicent mm-hmm and he's like i hope that you gave them you know that the welcome that befits their station i was like oh are you no kidding you smug so be

[01:49:52] um so yeah and then when they were talking about corelease and reynies asked where the raven was from this is a dragon's egg by the way um uh they said that the raven uh came from even even fall

[01:50:09] which is this even yeah oh sorry did i say that right even no you said it right yeah um which is the seat of house tarth where brunette yep is from so that was a nice little call out that was a good

[01:50:23] dragon's egg yeah um and i think i think that's all my notes that are show related how about you rinne any notes yeah no just the one about no dragons that was it okay all right

[01:50:45] well let's move into listener feedback because we got a bunch of it um before we go on i did edit it down a little bit um i don't know if you guys got it all edited down but we'll see yeah that's

[01:50:58] okay i we've gotten so much i just want to say thank you to everyone that contributes to feedback i think sometimes due to the volume that we get if we don't include it it's um it's

[01:51:07] just due to time not that we don't read all of it it just may not always make it on air just due to the volume of it but thank you everyone and please keep writing in yes please do i love it

[01:51:21] okay um same order so rinne if yep same order all right joanna hetzler says i was so touched by visceris in this episode how he surprised everyone and laid down the law from

[01:51:34] the iron throne and his heart felt plea to his family at the dinner table he's not the best king but he's the best person heart of gold yeah man pete considine gave so much to visceris that we

[01:51:49] didn't get you sure did you know in the book and god so great um so i agree um i'm gonna miss him yeah uh lindsay schlick yeah yeah gosh um that's gonna be rough and if anyone had any doubt they did

[01:52:05] confirm that he did die at the end i'm not sure yeah in my opinion room for doubt but i guess maybe some folks weren't clear so if anyone was in doubt um he did pass um lindsay schlick says now that

[01:52:20] was an episode worthy of the series for the first time in many episodes the show was able to make me not hate allicent her interaction with the serving girl was much gentler than i expected

[01:52:31] as soon as i realized what was going on i thought for sure this girl was dead the fact that allicent expressed regret offered comfort and believed her and gave her money was probably the kind

[01:52:39] of thing she would be able to do in the situation her rage at agon was also unexpected while her response wasn't perfect in all ways it was far better than i expected of her visceris

[01:52:49] was the clear standout of this episode i was bawling at the throne room scene to see this king we all viewed as weak be so incredibly strong and brave for his daughter was actually or sorry absolutely heartbreaking it was the most kingly moment of his life the music

[01:53:03] accompaniment to his long walk was amazing daemon helping his brother was almost more than i could take i was a complete mess his later scenes at dinner and then eventually his death is the type

[01:53:12] of emotional movement i've been waiting for in the series and this episode did not disappoint i think so often the deaths and game of thrones are so violent few of us can relate

[01:53:21] it's not exactly common to see people die by arrow or dragon fire or getting the top of their head sliced off freaking awesome but many of us have watched a loved one succumb slowly to a brutal

[01:53:31] death by disease so in a lot of ways this was one of the hardest deaths i can remember watching on tv despite my limited attachment to visceris 24 hours later and it's still

[01:53:40] affecting me i'm watching the throne scene now as i type through tears blown away and i've been off and on with the series since it started this episode brought me fully back absolutely loved it i love her feedback that's awesome lindsay yeah your feedback's always great lindsay

[01:53:59] thank you um i don't want to get this name wrong and i've always avoided you've always managed to give it to other people so that's what i say i'm really sorry i know i'm gonna say it wrong

[01:54:13] um hyphane the bolt i'm so sorry um says what an episode that was the acting the writing the makeup effects all fab i don't get emotional easily when watching tv but couldn't help myself this time for those familiar with the targaryen lineage there was some foreshadowing from

[01:54:34] visceris when he met little agon and visceris okay um dragon and zombies monday's we have to wait for monday in the uk are the best can't wait for podcast and booktop it is dragon and zombies

[01:54:52] it's dragons and zombies on sundays but yeah probably the walking dead and house of the dragon all air yeah same time yeah it's my guess oh yeah no i knew that renae murray says man oh man was this

[01:55:13] episode not a tear drinker and there are several crying face emojis here visceris looking like the night king was truly sad you can tell when he would hear any type of noise that he was in

[01:55:25] excruciating pain but yet still he got out of that bed for his daughter and grandkids when they were cleaning him up and he was crying out in pain i felt that in my soul

[01:55:35] i was bawling like a baby and when he told auto no milk of the poppy tonight i thought i was going to pass out for him because you could tell he was suffering i really felt some type of way when

[01:55:46] raniera asked him to fight for her because she knew that he was going to have to make the meeting in order for things to go their way and she knew the cost of it i realized though that

[01:55:56] she knew her dad was on death's door and the vultures were circling and like any parent when we say we will go through hell and back for our kids we mean it literally one eye wants to be daemon

[01:56:11] so bad and his mother wants to f daemon so bad daemon is truly the yeah i don't think allison wants to do anything with daemon i don't think so maybe who knows daemon is truly the man his

[01:56:31] arrogance is what makes him and the fact that he's a man of little words he has a big ego but he can back it up he walks the walk i love that and i love the fact that he was taking up for his niece

[01:56:44] slash wife i have always felt like he loves her the same way i love my nieces and nephews of course i could never ever procreate with my nieces and nephews ew but hey they are derived from dragons so

[01:56:59] visceres wouldn't allow anyone to help him to the throne but his brother and wasn't anyone in that room going to stop daemon from helping him to the throne i thought that moment spoke so much

[01:57:09] volume because daemon truly loved his brother i have five brothers and i love them dearly i lost one of my brothers and the pain was unbearable so to know that his brother was not long

[01:57:19] upon this earth i know that was unbearable for daemon when visceres pulled his sword and said i will have your tongue daemon daemon knew he didn't have the strength to do it so he did what

[01:57:32] any brother would do he handled it for him i loved when king visceres walked into the room and ranira saw him she knew everything was going to be all good because her daddy had her

[01:57:42] daemon cutting off veyman's head or whatever his name was is epic actually it was misspelled and i just supplied veyman um he was like say it i dare you i double dog dare you whatever that means i have

[01:57:56] no idea why we say that to kids why we used to say that as kids yeah i don't either uh the dinner was epic too when one eye said three strong boys i was like he's wrong for that

[01:58:09] i'm trying my best not to like one eye but i loved him in the last kingdom so did i ranay all visceres wanted for was for his family to unite but i feel like a line was drawn in the

[01:58:22] sand that night because too much division had been sewn among the kids i cannot wait to see what happens next week long live king visceres may his reign live on oh that was sweet

[01:58:36] thank you rome penny linux says is it me or was this episode overly dark as well i have a really big tv and i was squinting at the dinner scene uh grumpy rant over otherwise the dinner scene was

[01:58:51] outstanding i love the subtle and not subtle politicking and barbing prince agon is a standard spoiled brat but a month is fascinating first of all he got a glow up to you and michael

[01:59:03] and now looks like a middle earth elf or the witcher with a resemblance to the mouth boys as well second he is kind of a daemon 2.0 with his way with words and aloof above it all poise

[01:59:14] daemon was so into it he was practically grinning and enjoyment at the chaos and cheers to agon's wife for her toast about how marriage isn't too bad i was having trouble accepting emma darcy's rinneara until this episode she seemed like her old self with a

[01:59:28] sense of mischief and fire i guess she had been fresh from the birthbed and in morning and prior episodes but this at court rinneara reminded me of her younger self yeah didn't give um thank you penny

[01:59:40] for that that's where she ends but um as she's talking about emma darcy they gave an amazing performance yes they were amazing i could totally agree they have this character down so well and it's

[02:00:00] all picked up in these small nuances and facial expressions and her crying at her dad's bedside oh my gosh rinneara crying at her dad's bedside and just being like oh don't know this is too

[02:00:14] much this is too much for me and she was i mean to be a grown woman who has at this point i think i counted six kids or seven kids including all of her blended kids and all you know everything

[02:00:26] um you know she has she's she's in command of her of dragonstone in her own house but she was this little girl crying at her dad's bed yeah just needing her dad to be there for her and

[02:00:38] oh my gosh if that just wasn't yeah it was just incredibly done incredibly done it was so so good i completely agree emma darcy is nailing nailing it she's doing a fantastic um sorry they are doing

[02:00:55] a fantastic job um i fell in love with emma darcy over this week too really hard there is an interview going around that was posted on the hbo max tiktok if everyone hasn't seen it

[02:01:07] i can't stop watching it um as i'll have to play it for you here and here in just a little bit um maybe once we're done recording but i encourage everyone to go check it out when

[02:01:18] emma darcy and olivia cook are talking about what's your favorite drink they're kind of asking like little questions to each other and emma darcy answers uh negroni uh spagliato with prosecco

[02:01:33] in it and the way they say that oh my gosh i've quit by question my sexuality honestly uh i can't stop watching i cannot stop watching i i'm falling for them hard it's um i'll have to play it totally

[02:01:53] understandable yeah i mean uh their voice whoo and delivery anyway yes i digress i completely agree yeah for the record um because this is important rinneara has five sons and she's pregnant with her

[02:02:10] sixth child right yes she was pregnant in if um i think they i think it was clear but if anyone wasn't sure she was pregnant there uh in in right in those scenes so and then she has two step

[02:02:23] daughters yes correct family yeah yeah yes right so i think that's what i was counting it all up yes yes so that makes um seven plus one on the way yeah that girl she is boy mom step mom

[02:02:41] heir to the throne her she's handling daemon every day of her dragon rider she's got a lot to go with uh fighting the patriarchy i'm here for right she's fighting the patriarchy and eating some skittles and she's all out of skittles

[02:02:59] megan layman says i just want to say i was happy when it seemed like rinneara and daemon's kids were relieved slash glad to be betrothed those girls are as adorable as their mother

[02:03:12] i guess in this world the best you can dream for is a double wedding match with your step siblings cousins that you beat up bullies with it it's a big happy incestuous alternate universe

[02:03:25] pretty bunch okay i think megan wins the feedback of the award jeffrey h labby says team green kids boys are brats and some lessons all but the daughter she is chill yeah uh hashtag let's save helena

[02:03:53] megan o'connell says i'm loving this show so much i find myself watching it twice on sunday nights and several times again during the week especially after your breakdown of the episode

[02:04:02] i hope you can explain if aamond is supposed to look so much older than agon also the ending is so sad that was meant for rinneara and now he's the cause of the silver war to come

[02:04:16] i've seen a lot of discussion i'm not sure there it is i think interesting that aamond does look older than agon even though he's the younger brother i'm i'm just rolling with it i i

[02:04:27] like the choice of uh actor i do question a little bit agon but you know we'll go with it it according to the book aamond is supposed to be 19 and agon 22 well agon looks you know 12 yeah he does yeah but that's because he's a

[02:04:49] disillute he'd he'd make a great uh young version of the emperor in star wars oh he would he would i like that we both took that very seriously ready i'm mixing my my nerddoms here yeah that's okay those are my nerddoms too

[02:05:12] alisha stout says hi christin i love how you say hi to me on the pod so i'm saying it back hi to rima too well if you think this has a happy ending you haven't been paying attention and quote tirion

[02:05:27] lannister what an episode for the series when i saw the memes going around last week of him looking like the crypt keeper and watched this episode it wasn't too far off jeez louisey looks

[02:05:39] terrible missing half a face and an eye only to cover it up with half of the sons of the harpy mass his hair is almost gone his back is still full of sores and his teeth

[02:05:49] ew yes i have a thing about teeth yes yeah and could not one person help him walk or hobble up to the iron throne when those doors opened everyone just stands there i know shocked but

[02:06:02] still well that was cringy to watch and i had so much sympathy for him damon helping him up the stairs put and puts on his crown after it had fallen off was very emotional brotherly and touching

[02:06:16] i think that was damon's best best moment best moment absolutely yeah and you know we have we didn't discuss this but also the way that damon was speaking to alicent in the series is room

[02:06:31] when they first reunited that i loved i'd loved that little scene because i just thought damon was just like i'm his brother i don't care who you are you're messing everything yeah it was wonderful

[02:06:46] yeah he really had the power in that room and it wasn't because he was the man it was because like he's like no you're insane and i hate you yeah he has a presence for sure

[02:06:56] mael merdini says so you have converted me to the book reading or should i say listening club thank you welcome to the club maim i just started i decided to start the book from the start and

[02:07:13] boy am i glad i did so cool to have the background i'm still a ways away from catching up to the show but i do recommend it i wonder if they'll do flashbacks since i've started reading the

[02:07:25] since i've started reading the book i think i have a better perspective as to why alicent is the way she is no book spoilers here she's driven by her faith and religion and the

[02:07:34] Targaryens have a long history while i do sympathize with alicent i am still team renera from what i see on the show while alicent started as someone who seemed to want to keep the peace and tried to build a bridge between renera and her father she later became

[02:07:51] obsessed with virtue and honor and didn't seem to care for her children and wasn't a good mother to them in my opinion she caused the rift between the children with autos influence of course

[02:08:03] she was blinded by what she thought was right but the world is not so black and white as she'd like it to be she started sowing seeds of hate between her children and reneras which

[02:08:13] is interesting because she was a better stepmother than a mother as for ren yeah as for renera she started off as a rebel and wanting to break the rules but she evolved to be a better person driven

[02:08:29] by duty she is a better mother than alicent as well you can see her guiding her children to comfort others while alicent is trying to build warriors for a future for future fights

[02:08:40] renera has been trying to avoid war and to build peace like her father by building alliances and she's trying to send an olive branch first she did this again in this episode and i do

[02:08:51] think both sides were sincere but it's too late as the kids are all ready to wage war and there's no turning back in this episode we see that she finally realizes the weight of the crown and wants to move forward to fulfill the prophecy and protect her children

[02:09:08] but then visceris gets high and alicent thinks he's telling her her son is the prince that was promised and there are some emojis here that i'm not entirely sure what they are

[02:09:21] prince that was promised yeah um poor visceris is finally gone i thought that daemon was going to smell poison when he smelled his medicine amen is interesting he gives off very creepy

[02:09:36] vibes his stare of death from the one eye sends shivers down my spine also i don't want dragon on dragon action but i can see where this is heading crying face emoji sorry for the extra long post

[02:09:50] but it was a great episode i'm already starting to have withdrawal just two more weeks with just two more weeks to go no worries about the extra long post we have extra long podcasts

[02:10:02] to go along with yes we do as you are curious these past eight episodes i don't know how we do it otherwise um looks like we have uh an email from sam willis um hey guys love the pod as always

[02:10:19] couldn't not write in about the episode great as always but for me the scene back where king v comes back to us thrown just wow what acting on all parts just incredible but for me daemon

[02:10:31] last time i jumped up with the words i believe oh shit uh was the wed redding red wedding sorry alcohol in game of thrones um he can keep his tongue laugh emojis laugh love matt smith just outstanding

[02:10:50] by the way didn't know if you knew may have discussed um in the pod but when visceris dropped his crown that was completely improvised uh by daemon or matt smith putting it back on

[02:11:01] just fantastic added so much more depth keep up the good work sam from the uk um yes we did know that and did mention it but thank you for pointing it out because made it a little more awesome

[02:11:13] that and also visceris looking at ronira um was also improvised um i guess when they first um did this scene in one of the takes it i guess it looked like visceris was walking right towards

[02:11:29] ronira and um that wasn't planned at all and so the two of them kind of like looked at each other and like stopped so they when they did the take the next time uh you know they had him walk to

[02:11:42] the throne instead of like right to her and maybe it was because patty conzantine couldn't see up and he was like zigzag like he was just right moving towards her um but they did find that

[02:11:55] him stopping and turning and looking directly at her and them having that moment was like actually more impactful and so they added that in and they improvised it that's awesome so i love that i

[02:12:09] love little stuff like that i i love the trivia uh we have one um one call our weekly live steving hello dragoncast this is steve and this is for lord of the tides um i did see the ending last

[02:12:28] week i don't know why it didn't click in my head that that was coral and uh lea long i stuck on how to say his name right so yeah and i the recording was going long so that's why

[02:12:39] ended so abruptly okay so this is a six-year time jump from when corlis was killed oh he's not dead yet which one is syrax is that his dragon uh daemon's oh the king does not look or sound good at all

[02:12:52] he's had two children now with daemon okay and now we find out that one of alice and suns is a rapist this is the same tea that was offered to renara okay this is renaris's sons jace and

[02:13:03] luke lace what it was with alakit remember names who in the one-eyed targary and swinging a mace sorry he's got the sword the other guy's got the mace she's gonna tell him that laner's alive

[02:13:12] hell her that laner's alive i didn't understand all that stuff between renara and uh the queen who was not but i'm sure you'll explain it this song lies in fire that's the game of thrones time period

[02:13:24] right oh that throne of swords is huge i don't think i've ever noticed the magnitude of it in this show pause there for a second to ask this question so the hand is sitting on the throne

[02:13:33] is that because he represents the king he's allowed to do that in court oh and the king makes an entrance is he gonna say it is he called i'm gonna call him the b word oh and daemon just cut his head off

[02:13:47] wow oh so lord corliss has gone and yeah i remember you saying something about the stranger is their word for death this the red keep is this where the red this is where the red wedding

[02:13:58] happened right but this is where they're having their family dinner allison's son is just a dick mike talking to jason or luke whichever one this is it's just wrong oh he said house of the dragon

[02:14:12] the name of the series mic drop of course i failed to mention that the lord of the tides has been said many times throughout the episode so bunch of mics dropping notice that allison is still

[02:14:21] dressed in her green dress and apparently renara has on her black dress so there's that piece won't last long i'm sure ace and allison's son is just showing him's like he's more of a

[02:14:32] dick man every time prince agon is the dick and aamond is the one that only has one eye just stood up and spoke right that's renara's daughter oh i'm sorry that's allison's daughter and she's betrothed or married to i i don't have these relationships straight in my

[02:14:47] brain that piece was short lived the king gets carried out and of course now aamond's got to go in with the strong boys who grows his mouth did he think he was talking did he know he was

[02:14:58] talking to allison when he talked about uniting the realm the king that's it for this week talk to you later i was so much involved okay so for steve to have everything straightened out here yes the hand is the only person other

[02:15:20] than the king who is allowed to sit on the iron throne when the hand is acting in the king's stead that is true the red keep has nothing whatsoever to do with the wet red wedding the red keep

[02:15:32] is the castle at king's landing and it's called that because it's made out of red stone the red wedding took place at the twins which belongs to house fray right i hope that helps you keep

[02:15:44] everything it was red because everybody that's right it would yes it was red for a different reason yeah and and thank you steve for clarifying that you did that you were able to finish um

[02:15:57] that so we were concerned that maybe you had um maybe it had ended for you or something i know sometimes my uh hbo max at x uh funky and stops and um doesn't always act appropriately so i thought

[02:16:11] oh gosh maybe something happened and you got cut off there from the end so i'm i'm glad that you finished um that upset and thanks for that voicemail yes thank you thanks everyone for the feedback

[02:16:24] that was fantastic feedback got a lot of opinions uh man opinions are running uh very high i know for both sides um and you know i just you know i know i have very strong opinions about my uh

[02:16:40] my loyalties and people feel the same way about where their loyalty is life you happen to be on allison's team and team green and i understand that and i i want to say even though i disagree

[02:16:53] i feel like it's hard to you know i can't say that you're wrong because i feel like there's no right or wrongs um everyone has different perspectives um but i i i strongly disagrees

[02:17:03] all the same so i just you know i feel like things get pretty heated and and um things go sideways and i know i come across it's very strong sometimes to people but i um just want to let

[02:17:16] everyone know everyone's opinion is welcome yes i i totally agree with what rima said yes i thank you rima for having the words well i don't always and i don't know that i'm very

[02:17:32] good at them right now i'm just i i know i come across is very strong very opinionated and i'd like to be right however i there's um that's what's great about this great about the book great about the

[02:17:42] show lots of different perspectives it's hard to say one person's wrong versus for their opinion and where they see um it is hard for me to understand how some folks lean on the other side because

[02:17:54] i feel like just because allison is like you understand her motivations doesn't make sense to me that you would be on her side because you can understand everyone's motivations um but you know

[02:18:04] it's i'm not going to tell you that you're wrong for feeling that way so all opinions are welcome and we appreciate hearing them yes so now uh that we've had our all of our feedback and again

[02:18:17] just like what rima said thank you so much for everybody please keep them coming with two more episodes to go there's gonna be a lot more i can just i can feel it in my bones so bring

[02:18:27] it on bring up bring everything on that you want to say about every week's episode um but for now we are going to head into book talk since we have all three of us here today we don't need to

[02:18:39] introduce anybody we just roll right into it so this is your warning this is your official warning we are moving into book talk so if you don't want to hear any book talk

[02:18:50] turn it off if you turn it off now goodbye we love you um but if you want to hear book specific book spoilers episode specific tune in and then we will let you know when we're going into just

[02:19:07] a free free verbal diarrhea of things um so with that um reny you want to kick us off i do so um i was having to hold hold my tongue uh yes when we were talking a little bit earlier over many things but this thing in particular

[02:19:30] so i learned a very very interesting thing and that is that the show runners decided to cast the valerians as black in order to make it obvious that reny's kids are not lane orse yes and i was i was thunderstruck by that because my interpretation of the book

[02:19:50] was that it was the shadow of a doubt that those kids could have been lane orse um rather than harwin's that kept the that whole thing together but the show i think is doing something much more

[02:20:04] challenging and therefore more interesting which is making it an obvious deception and anybody can see it there there is no doubt um and it's only visceres insistence that is holding this together

[02:20:18] and keeping renyra safe and they really played that up in this episode so i think that was i think it's a great adaptation and that makes it makes so much sense to cast the valerians as black the valerians not the valerians the valerians right because in the book

[02:20:38] there was no mention of their skin color and there was not an obvious telling that they were not lane orse children that's right because the valerians and the targaryens both had the white blonde hair and the purple eyes so they had similar looks

[02:21:03] so and and in the book reyneese who is half baratheon has black eyes so that you know it's very reasonable that their brown hair could have come from their baratheon ancestry right through their grandmother and so it's completely believable that they were lane orse children in the book

[02:21:29] in the show they could have they could have cast the kids so that there was a little bit more of a shadow of a doubt if they had more like you know dark haired and olive skinned kids but they cast

[02:21:42] really white skinned kids and that fits right in with what they're what they're saying is they want it to be blindingly obvious that those are not lane orse kids and that just changes the meaning of what's happening in I think a really interesting way I agree

[02:22:01] I think it was an interesting choice yeah so um the there is a six-year time jump that has happened between episodes and the time that is skipped over takes up a total of three pages in the book

[02:22:18] so but they have also compressed the timeline on the other end because in the book the time from the death of Lionel and Harwen Strong which is the beginning of the time period that skipped over

[02:22:32] in the six years to the death of Viserys is nine years um so here's what happened during the six years uh that we jumped over Reneira and Damon had their first child Aegon who had

[02:22:47] the pure Valyrian features of both his parents and Allicent grew quite wroth that's the term quite wroth when she learned that Reneira had named her son Aegon taking it as a slight against

[02:23:03] her own son Aegon which according to mushroom it most certainly was I love mushroom yeah still waiting in the mushroom yeah yeah um he's under the table you just can't he's there you just can't

[02:23:17] see him it's too sad to be a fool right now I know that's right yeah um so archmaster gilday and the fictional author of the fictional fire and blood refers to Allicent's son as Aegon the elder

[02:23:34] and Reneira's son as Aegon the younger in order to avoid confusion um and then two years later Reneira and Damon's second son Viserys is born he is smaller and less robust than Aegon

[02:23:51] and his dragon egg never hatched which the Green Party takes as an ill omen and they were not shy about saying as much well they haven't been shy yet uh say no they're they're not now

[02:24:08] the same year that Reneira's son Viserys was born King Viserys and wed his son son Aegon and his daughter Helena to one another so that that's the language of the book King Viserys wed

[02:24:22] his son Aegon and his daughter Helena doesn't say anything about what Allicent may or may not have thought about this and the show doesn't give us what she may or may not have thought about

[02:24:31] it either at that point Aegon was 15 and Helena was 13 um I think they've aged them up a little bit in the show but with the time jumps it's kind of hard to tell sometimes um a year after the

[02:24:44] marriage Helena had twins and we know that Helena has children in the show but we don't know anything about them so far because we just know that um the servant who Aegon raped was supposed

[02:24:59] to dress the twin dress the kids so um so we may hear more about the Helena's kids in the next episode so I'm not going to say more about them until the spoiler section but we are told

[02:25:14] that marriage did not satisfy Prince Aegon the elder's carnal appetites and Mushroom says he fathered two bastards the same year his twins were born one with a girl whose maiden head he won on the

[02:25:27] street of silk and one with one of his mother's maid servants so the the show has changed that and the maid servant is given at the least moon tea at the most poison so that she won't produce

[02:25:41] a bastard yeah but maybe maybe it won't work who knows who knows or yeah just who allison knows about you know who knows if there's um others you know as he's frolicking you know in in king's landing

[02:26:02] you know um yeah you know she's she's she's cleaning up the messes that she knows about anyway that's right the ones she knows about um and so um then Amond um and we talked about the actor who's

[02:26:17] playing Amond who was he was in the last kingdom so I have a casting suggestion for if they take this show back and do the conquest how about Alexander Drahmand who played Uhtred son of Uhtred

[02:26:30] in the last kingdom for Aegon the conqueror I think he'd be awesome I never saw the last kingdom yeah I have not oh you have a homework assignment you need to see the last kingdom I'm looking and you have to

[02:26:43] you have to just get through the first two episodes I started it once and I stopped it and then I went back to it another time and then I was just completely hooked so that must be what I did I

[02:26:55] must have watched the first episode and I think it was in the first episode that the the king was like using his throne to also loop in it or something like that while he was taking people at court and

[02:27:09] I was like what is happening no that's a different show is that Vikings I think that's Vikings yeah all right I'm getting everything mixed up well there's yeah there's just too many shows uh

[02:27:19] well I just I just like oh I'm not as familiar I think I've heard of it but I'm just not familiar and I haven't watched it but I just looked him up on IMDB for that show and I could definitely

[02:27:28] see him yeah being a good king uh Aegon the conqueror but you know I had a little bit of an affinity for Alexander Skarsgard is playing Aegon that's who I kind of picture oh but um I wouldn't

[02:27:43] be mad about this guy yeah okay yeah any scars I'm afraid Alex Alexander Skarsgard may be getting a little bit too old to play maybe but so they have to do it soon before he gets any older yeah

[02:27:57] which is okay by me yep so anyway Aamond had become a proficient swordsman under the tutelage of Kristen Cole but he remained a wild and willful child hot tempered and unforgiving

[02:28:14] and then his youngest brother Daron who we have not seen in the show but but hold on for a sec uh Daron was the most popular of the queen's sons as clever as he was courteous and cummly as well

[02:28:27] but when he would turn 12 he was sent to Old Town to be a cupbearer and squire to Lord Hightower and we've talked about whether or not Daron is going to exist in the show

[02:28:37] yes and I have seen it pointed out that Allyson's bloodline in the opening sequence has four rivers of blood running out of it not three so maybe he will show up yes thank you for pointing that out

[02:28:51] because that's actually in my book notes too I know we have talked about that like here is is is Daron Targaryen and it seems um now again I my source may not be 100 percent confirmed

[02:29:04] because I saw this literally just before we were getting ready to record so I need to confirm the source but I'm reading that George Martin confirmed that Daron Targaryen Viserys and Allyson's fourth

[02:29:15] child was not cut from the series there's a quote and again I need to confirm the source says yes Allyson has given Viserys four children his youngest son Daron is in Old Town we just

[02:29:28] haven't had had time to work with him this season okay and yes as you pointed out Renny as I was also reading to confirm well I guess if you want to call it a confirmation in the beginning

[02:29:42] where they're showing all of the bloodlines there is a branch of four from Allyson to represent four children not the three that we have seen so great so we'll get Daron Daron

[02:29:56] and Tissarion yes I think so I think so again need to confirm the source but um that's what I'm seeing so far yeah great and so that brings us up to the to the point where we open in in the show

[02:30:12] in this episode so in the show Corleis has been fighting in the stepstones and he's suffering from blood poisoning after taking a serious wound but in the book he has not been fighting

[02:30:23] in the stepstones he's been on Driftmark this whole time and he comes down with a fever right and that's how the question of the succession arises so since both of his trueborn children are

[02:30:36] dead by law Driftmark should pass to Jace the oldest son of his son and this is the point where Reneara urges him to name Luke his heir on the grounds that Jace will inherit the

[02:30:49] iron thrown from her uh so the situation is quite different than it is in the show Corleis is sick but he's still able to be approached to name his own successor uh and he is 73 years old in the book

[02:31:02] at this point by the way wow he's how old? He's 76? He's 73 oh thank you like Corleis is 73 I know he's some wizardry right there yeah talking about aging up and down yeah so

[02:31:22] Corleis also had half a dozen nephews and Vaiman is his oldest nephew in the book rather than his brother as he is in the show um and I think they've just simplified making it his brother

[02:31:34] in the show it's not a big deal yeah so Vaiman protests that the inheritance should pass to him on the ground that Reneara's children are bastards he said that on Driftmark yeah he did

[02:31:46] not at court yeah so Reneara quote dispatched Daemon to seize Sir Vaiman had his head removed and fed his carcass to her dragon Cyrax yeah she did what'd you say about my boys again she was a big mama bear right there

[02:32:13] so whatever they chose to do this section would have required a great deal of adaptation because it's not fleshed out at all we don't know whether Reneara went in person to talk to Corleis

[02:32:26] on his presumptive death bed about making Luke the heir or whether she sent an envoy or sent a raven uh or where Vaiman was when Daemon was dispatched to take his head off or whether Daemon

[02:32:38] brought the body back to Dragonstone so Cyrax could eat him or if Reneara flew Cyrax to where the body was so even if they'd kept it exactly the same in the book they would still have had to work

[02:32:49] out all those unspecified logistics yep that's a lot to work out this simplified it yeah but what watch Cyrax eat him Cyrax eat him I know we haven't seen Cyrax and I'm yum yum yum we haven't seen Cyrax in a long time

[02:33:07] yeah she's getting bigger those are Cyrax's eggs that Daemon was finding he says yeah yeah Cyrax gave us another clutch yeah um but what they've done is that they put two different things together that so that Vaiman's death happened in that way but then after that um

[02:33:27] Corleys's younger nephews along with Vaiman's wife and children fled to King's Landing to cry for justice and to place their claims before the king and queen Viserys heard them out in stony silence then ordered that all of them have their tongues removed

[02:33:45] you warned them you you were warned he said I will hear no more of these lies I know people believe him you know he's going to cut your tongue out like he's going to do it

[02:33:59] yeah yeah yeah shish and I know a lot of people expected Viserys to be ordering people's tongues cut out in this episode but they you know they did it in this different way that I think works great I agree mm-hmm yeah um

[02:34:19] and I think the biggest change that they've made from the book is is Viserys's condition in the book he had grown extremely fat and red of face and scarcely had the strength to mount the

[02:34:30] steps to the iron throne he has gout but he doesn't have leprosy or whatever sort of disease it is that he has that's eating him up in the show um and here's where the show really compresses

[02:34:44] the timeline rather than doing a time jump he lives another three years beyond the incident of the Valarion succession um Reneira is not yet pregnant with her third child by Damon during the Valarion succession crisis um so here's what happens in the three years that are compressed

[02:35:03] into one day in the show oh he also he also doesn't have his arm missing nope he does not mm-hmm so when he's coming down from the throne after ordering the Valarions to have their tongues

[02:35:20] out the nephews and the wife and children of Vamond um he stumbles and gashes his left hand to the bone on the throne this is something that we saw many many episodes ago on this on the show

[02:35:34] so grand maester mellows who's still the maester at king's landing at this point washes the cutout with boiled wine but it gets infected and it is feared that visceris might die so Reneira brings her own maester maester gerardus to treat visceris and gerardus removes two of his fingers

[02:35:56] and he recovers so up until this point to happen by the way i'm sorry to interrupt you but like i'm really disappointed that this didn't happen because i thought that this was totally going to happen i'm like oh okay so now she's gonna bring her maesters everything's

[02:36:11] gonna be better for a little bit no no no they just really changed the way that visceris is disintegrating yeah so he had all of his fingers and toes and arms and all of his body parts

[02:36:23] up to this point um and this is the point where he he loses those two fingers which we saw him lose way earlier yeah in the show three or something yeah um and he recovers

[02:36:37] and although he is weakened by this ordeal he soon resumes the rule and to celebrate his recovery a feast was held the princess and the queen were ordered to attend with all their children

[02:36:50] and in a show of amity they each wore the others color something we most definitely did not see in the show definitely not and so this is the feast that that they repurposed in the show to

[02:37:06] the one that we saw um so in the book many declarations of love were made and daemon toasted otto high tower and thanked him for his loyal service as hand and otto toasted him back

[02:37:20] noting the prince's courage the children greeted each other with kisses quote or so the court chronicles record the book suggests that there was still much discord under the supposed awkward and the show actually makes us think for just a moment that there still may be a path away

[02:37:41] from war but in the book visceris leaves the feast early because he still tires easily and it's mushroom who tells us that aamond toasted his valarion nephews speaking in mock admiration

[02:37:59] of their brown hair brown eyes and their strengths i have never known anyone so strong as my sweet nephews so let us drain our cups to these three strong boys and then nothing happens there's

[02:38:16] no fight he makes that toast and that's it but later agon the elder takes a fence when jace asks salena for a dance uh angry words were exchanged and the two princes might have

[02:38:34] come to blows if not for the intervention of the king's guard uh and whether visceris was ever informed of these incidents we do not know but ranira and her family returned to dragonstone

[02:38:47] the next morning so that that that feast was a thing but it wasn't as big a thing as it is in the show right i think then after he lost his fingers visceris never sat on the iron throne again

[02:39:03] he held court in his solar and later in his bed chamber surrounded by maesters and septons and his faithful fool mushroom who according to mushroom himself was the only man who could still make him laugh of course oh mushroom good boy good boy mushroom

[02:39:27] and shortly after that grand maester mellows dies he had served as a moderating voice in the council who always recommended compromise now he disappeared in the show during the last time jump

[02:39:39] and so he hasn't been around in the show for a long time he was replaced in the show by now grand maester or while and without any fuss but there's in the there's some fuss in the

[02:39:51] book uh the opening created by grand maester mellows's death provoked a fresh dispute between the black faction the green faction ranira wanted her master gerardus elevated to grand maester to replace mellows she claimed that it was his healing skills that saved visceris's life when he cut his

[02:40:09] hand on the throne the queen said that the princess and her maester had mutilated the king unnecessarily and if they hadn't meddled then mellows would surely have saved the king's

[02:40:21] fingers as well as his life sure right yeah well and i remember in the show it was kind of under whispers it was when queen alison was coming into the chamber's degree damon and ranira and i

[02:40:33] thought ranae ranira was saying something to damon about maybe we should bring in our maesters you know to see if they could do something for king visceris and i think maybe that's where

[02:40:41] they were trying to blend that a little bit um yes i think that's right yeah yeah and wasn't it alluded to a little that i know that damon was shown kind of sniffing the cup after visceris

[02:40:54] took a drink of it after he asked for it and i thought oh what is he sniffing for is he concerned about like a poison or something and wasn't alluded to or am i remembering wrong

[02:41:05] because it's i feel like i'm commingling something sometimes between book and show and maybe misremembering um but was it referenced at all that the possibility of um visceris being poisoned like slowly poisoned that's a fan theory it's not actually in the book and that's part

[02:41:24] of the the maester conspiracy theory okay so i i think i'm sorry i think what what that is is that visceris asked for his tea and damon smelled it and he knew it was milk of the poppy and he's like

[02:41:39] that's right oh your tea i got it you know right yeah that was yeah because i thought the same thing i thought maybe he'd smell poison but then like he said something a little bit later to

[02:41:51] allicent in that little reunion meeting that they had that alluded to the fact that he knew it was oh when he said oh so you're just gonna keep him you know drugged up on milk of the poppy

[02:42:01] day in and day out and just do whatever you want like he said something like that so yes i think that's exactly right i mean if anything seems like they were trying to

[02:42:10] keep him alive which seems almost cruel considering his condition i know um like i think they're trying to keep him alive for agon the elder to come of age well that and they get to rule in his stead

[02:42:25] that's right yeah so if anything it's almost a cruelty that they were keeping very very cruel in that condition i mean it seemed miserable and god my heart broke for visceris he died alone

[02:42:36] like why isn't yeah someone sitting in that room with him someone whether they're a family member a maester uh someone sitting with him keeping him company and being with him he died alone

[02:42:47] that was hurt and he says no more right and and it's like he's saying i can't take this anymore so yes they are cruelly keeping him alive and suffering yeah

[02:43:00] um so the citadel then sent um orwile to become grand maester and uh after orwile came the king did seem to recover some of his old vigor but the recovery was short lived and in the final years

[02:43:18] of his reign as his health failed visceris left ever more of the governance of the realm to his hand and the small council so we talked a little bit about the small council

[02:43:31] member lord beesberry um and who the members of this small council are going to be very important um going forward so here's who they were auto high tower the hand grand maester orwile uh lord commander of the kingsguard christin coal which is a change

[02:43:55] from the book to the show because sir herald west drilling is still the lord commander in the show um but in the in the book he's been dead for many years and christin has been lord commander

[02:44:08] lord lineman beesberry the master of coin and he has been master of coin since uh king jaharis his time he started as master of coin under jaharis he's been serving his 80 years old yeah he's been serving sar tylin lannister master of ships

[02:44:26] and larry strong lord confessor and master of whispers who isn't on the small council in the in the show which is interesting it's interesting we didn't see him at all in this

[02:44:41] episode or i i guess we saw him in the crowd but he didn't really play a role right it's weird because i didn't miss him no yeah i know that is kind of weird um and then um lord jasper wild the

[02:44:57] master of laws who's known as iron rod uh and septon use to says his nickname came from unbending his unbending attitude toward the law mushroom of course says it's because of the stiffness of

[02:45:10] his member um he did sire 29 children with four wives before the last of his wives died of exhaustion yeah so we've seen all of them on the small council except for larris um

[02:45:27] but they haven't really popped out much you wouldn't necessarily know which one of them was which but they're all they're all there yeah they are their substitutes are all there so by 129 ac visceris was growing weaker and weaker he had chest pains that kept him from climbing

[02:45:48] stairs and he was carried around the red keep in a chair and we saw them carrying him around in a chair um he started ruling the realm from his bed when he felt strong enough to rule at all

[02:46:01] most days he left matters of state to auto then one day in early 129 uh princess helena brings her children to visit the king he tells uh the children the story of how their great great grandfather

[02:46:19] jeharis flew to the wall to defeat a vast host of giants wildlings and wargs then after helena and the children were gone visceris of house targaryen the first of his name king of the andals the

[02:46:36] roynar and the first man lord of the seven kingdoms and protector of the realm closed his eyes and went to sleep he never woke he was 52 years old and had reigned over most of westeros for 26 years

[02:46:52] r.i.p. r.i.p so that's how the book brought us to where we are now um one of the things i really like in the changes is the way that the show making is illness so much worse yes it really

[02:47:06] opens the way for the women to be much bigger players not just renera and alicent but reynies as well and even beila and reyna yeah um yeah yeah and and and again you know all the props to

[02:47:23] patti considine for bringing so much to the character of visceris and i don't have no totally i don't have a quote in front of me but i believe that george martin um wrote to patti considine

[02:47:35] and told him you you you gave and brought so much more to the character of visceris and i ever did in my book and thank him for it so high praise indeed yes um i saw a little clip of an

[02:47:47] interview with george r martin where he said that patti considine's visceris was a more interesting character than the book version yeah so i would fantastic wholeheartedly agree with that yeah me too yeah because we series was very bland on paper yeah yeah very much so

[02:48:08] um and one thing that i didn't want to say outside of book talk that i do want to say about the um alicent hearing visceris thinking is talking to uh ronira uh i think that alicent may be thinking that she has been given a mission by visceris

[02:48:35] to make her son the prince who was promised it makes her potentially a more sympathetic character for non-book readers yeah that they can they can take that interpretation uh and i think that the

[02:48:50] show wants the audience to be at least a little bit torn between the two sides there i i don't know how many book readers there are who are team green show only people yes book readers not as

[02:49:02] many yeah thank you i feel anybody out there who is a book reader and team green i yeah shoot just a message i i feel just you know listening to people who are show watchers only seem to

[02:49:17] sympathize more or maybe our team green there are still some that are team black but i think they're they're definitely definitely leaning uh that or at least they see more of of like oh i

[02:49:29] get that yeah um but book readers i feel i see almost always our team black i'm like this is so interesting what the show has done you know um that the things that we're getting and kind of

[02:49:41] filling in the gaps or filling in the blanks a little bit of some of the context that we didn't get in the book uh that the show is is kind of bringing us because there was this this prophecy

[02:49:52] we did not know this was there was not this prince was prompt i mean we we heard about it in Game of Thrones but we did not know that this came from Aegon the Conqueror the Aegon

[02:50:01] that this was a dream that's right or prophecy from Aegon the Conqueror and this was passed down from air to air this was show canon not from the book and so that did not exist in the book so

[02:50:11] therefore allicent did not hear that uh in in the book so getting that here was interesting uh and and yeah making i think more sympathetic and so like where are they going with this this should

[02:50:25] i don't know if they're just trying to make it harder to choose sides um i think that's what they're doing to try to make make the show more interesting yeah well they're doing a good job i think they're doing a great job yeah yeah

[02:50:43] that's all i have for the non-spoiler section well that was great everything i have to say is just too much with you know i i just want to talk about the whole thing yeah i feel like i'm

[02:50:53] definitely more and i don't have anything to add to all the fabulous content you provided there ready for the book versus episode i think most of what i want to hear or talk about is the

[02:51:03] heavy book spoilers and things to come um so i think if we don't have anything to add do we want to give our little warning now for danger danger will drop in yes exactly oh golly absolutely well can i kick this off real quick with a question

[02:51:27] um yeah we're in full book spoilers now so if you don't like it turn it off we love you goodbye bye bye so kalena says something at the dinner table oh yeah yeah oh yeah and she says well

[02:51:42] beware the belly the belly the beast in the board so the beast under the board the spinning shoot i wrote it down yeah the beast below the boards i think yeah now is this a um

[02:51:52] foreshadowing of raneira's death of raneira's death i wasn't sure what it wasn't clear to me i don't think so because it's not it's blood and cheese i think it has to be blood and cheese

[02:52:08] okay because i was just thinking about the fact that raneira is going to be you know killed and fed to a dragon yeah but that doesn't that that wouldn't be below the boards that happens in the courtyard i just remember joffrey looking over

[02:52:29] and oh is telling marge marjorie talking about raneira's fate and talking about raneira's fate and they were looking down oh yeah and i thought they were indoors yeah i think it was at the um

[02:52:44] was it was it was at the septin was it where they were burying wherever they're burying the past targaryen or the past kings um and targaryens and her remains what was left anyway yeah i have to rewatch that scene and see exactly what they were but uh

[02:53:07] so you think it's blood and cheese at that wrong yeah if game of thrones suggests that raneira somehow died inside somewhere that's just wrong um yeah i think it has to be blood and cheese

[02:53:23] okay which we're gonna come up on pretty quickly if if they go there i don't i don't think we're gonna get that till season two oh no no no it's not happening this season yeah yeah yeah

[02:53:37] i don't see how it could happen this season because no uh there's a lot that needs to happen first yes a lot needs to happen and i again i need to confirm this i just literally saw something come

[02:53:50] across my screen as far as some potential news was um and i need to confirm but they're saying george r or martin confirms house of the dragon will require four seasons of 10 episodes each

[02:54:01] i just saw the same thing to tell okay yeah dragon storyline properly yes i don't know if that's an information of what we're gonna get i think that's just what george right is saying he

[02:54:11] also said that game of thrones should have had 13 seasons and it didn't get exactly um and he was right but this show yeah but he was right it's such a hit he was right and this show is such a

[02:54:24] hit that maybe hpo will be willing to give it four seasons to him and be like you know what we didn't listen to you the first time we're gonna listen to you at this time we're gonna do

[02:54:34] well and ryan ryan condol's gonna be on board with that if george says four seasons ryan condol's gonna say and i think hbo's gonna do it i mean this show is a huge hit right now it yeah it's a cultural

[02:54:46] phenomenon so let's hope at least that's what george wants he thinks it's going to take four seasons of 10 episodes to be able to tell yes to the dragons um properly i agree i think

[02:54:57] that's i agree with well can i live with it i don't know if i can live with let's to come um but there's so much of me that may not want to watch it

[02:55:07] i know be like okay can we just stop here season one we're just gonna stop right we're everything's still happy we're watching romeo and julie at all the time like you're just

[02:55:19] watching it you're like it's gonna end differently this time i know it yeah no it's not good it's not gonna um but anyway just talking about so you know the the seasons and when that might

[02:55:30] happen and i'm curious what they're golly that's a that's a poof that's a benchmark um in in the dance that yeah yeah wow well well that's that's when all of us who are team black have to say

[02:55:45] okay either side is um without gilson yeah that's why we have to step back a little bit and go okay yeah well which is why i'm surprised if they wanted to make you know reniera or reniera and daemon's

[02:55:58] side a little like less you know virtuous or like in the right i guess is what i'm saying on this side is they should have had veyman's death be veyman's death keeping it into the book right yeah

[02:56:14] yeah no i think that yes it would have been it's foreshadowing when reniera feeds his body to syrax yeah and and and we've lost that yeah because i mean she's not the greatest queen when she becomes queen right no so partially

[02:56:37] because of the war that she's had to fight to get it right and the children that she lost and yeah yeah there's a lot that because i feel and that's what makes me really sad when we see young

[02:56:48] reniera we have emma darcy's version of reniera who i think is fantastic and i think wholeheartedly like in the book her character is going to change so drastically because of the events oh yeah yeah

[02:57:04] yeah yes you're just not gonna be the same person after you go through those things right and i think that emma darcy is a strong enough actor that they are going to pull that off

[02:57:14] brilliantly yeah i think so so um i read the quote about viscera's death and i left off the last line because the last line is then the storm broke and the dragons danced

[02:57:30] um oh and you know what this episode did not tell us which is that the drift mark succession crisis was really for nothing because core lease is not dead right they didn't tell us that core

[02:57:47] lease isn't dead yeah it made me think of the the montipython routine from money python in the holy grail bring out your dead and they throw a body in the cart and he says i'm not quite dead yet

[02:58:10] well core lease is not quite dead yet stop put it who's his heir gonna be and he's thinking hey still alive over here um you know i wonder what going back to what you were saying about um

[02:58:26] four seasons i keep wondering where they're gonna stop right and we're not gonna have any more time jumps uh because the dance of the dragons lasts just two years the civil war just

[02:58:40] lasts two years so they might jump months right but they're not gonna jump years anymore but if they go on into the reign of agon the second and agon the third um they could do some time jumping

[02:58:53] through that they could um because fire and blood ends with the end of the regency while agon the third is not of age yet it's when agon the third comes of age that's when the fire and blood

[02:59:08] ends i wonder well there's a volume two that's gonna come out too correct yeah but it's not written yet oh well no it's never gonna come yeah all right well i wonder if it's really because like we

[02:59:21] we jumped so far and fast to you know and i know a lot of people and you included christen had some issue with with how quickly you know we moved through some events and oh yes they moved a few

[02:59:33] things i feel like that's where it's gonna kind of stop they're gonna finally take their time to get through like maybe the pacing it will even itself out since now we're kind of at the time where

[02:59:45] we're gonna be and we're like the characters that we have there's no more aging them up there's no more time jumps now we're at this starting point um i wonder now if that's when they're gonna start

[02:59:57] that the you know not moving in such an accelerated pace i wonder yeah yeah um so uh we have now met the next three kings of the seven kingdoms agon the elder is agon the second agon the younger

[03:00:17] is agon the third and visceris raneira's younger son with daemon is visceris the second yes and when visceris was introduced to baby visceris and he says a name fit for a king name for a king

[03:00:34] that's correct gosh and there's so much foreshadowing at the feast allen allison says we're both mothers and we love our children we love our children who are about to go to war with

[03:00:49] each other you know we love our children do you though um aamond and daemon giving each other those measuring looks they keep staring at each other i keep thinking oh no no last moment that is going

[03:01:07] to be one of the most epic fights ever though like can we just say that's going to be incredible battle over the gods i i'm not ready i mean i don't want to i want to see it but i'm not ready

[03:01:20] that was definitely a moment when those two were staring each other down when aamond walked off because i was like oh my god you guys and i really wonder if aamond is going to have a sapphire

[03:01:31] in his mpi so i could be better that'd be wicked cool i hope i hope they do that but i don't know but the foreshadowing isn't just aamond and daemon it's aamond and luke as well

[03:01:47] right because yeah uh because aamond is uh luke is going to be the first person that aamond kills and it's also going to be the first dragon death and leads to a sun for a sun

[03:02:03] that's right uh and that's why when i was talking earlier about allicent and her overhearing that prophecy that i know that show watchers don't understand the like i guess if you hear enough

[03:02:18] like oh it's about the targaryen civil war then you you probably know a little bit about what's coming but they don't know what's coming i mean let's no they have no idea you don't know the

[03:02:29] absolute um like terror and atrocities that are are to come yeah and that's why i'm like don't simplify this terrible terrible war and what it does to these people and both sides you know to be fair um because terrible things happen to allicent terrible things happen to

[03:02:51] helena and a lot of bad things happen to raniera and her family it there are no winners in this story and that's why i was like don't simplify what's to come uh by overhearing this and all of a sudden

[03:03:03] just like oh well now i must go this way because this is what i'm hearing and this is what visaries wants me to do you know this is this is you're always going to do this you know you

[03:03:13] you were hearing what you wanted to hear and this atrocity and the divide between the families and all the blood and horrible things that are going to happen with so many dragons dying

[03:03:22] included yes not happened because there were three aegons you know that you know that were right don't don't simplify it in that way that i don't want that to happen and you know to be misled um

[03:03:38] yeah yep for sure um so the the last thing that i alluded to before that i wanted to say more about is um helena's children so she has twins named jaharis and jahera but all is not

[03:03:55] right with them um jaharis had six fingers on one hand and six toes on each foot and jahera was tiny and slow to grow and never cried and never smiled yeah but they were both

[03:04:11] given dragon eggs and both of those eggs hatched um and then helena has a another child who's four years younger uh which is the son uh whose name maylor so yeah and she has to she has to have all three

[03:04:35] of those children if they're gonna do blood and cheese yeah i don't see any other way no i don't i don't want that to happen but okay it's gonna happen so it's gonna happen you know

[03:04:49] there's so much darkness that's coming and that's really what's tough yeah yeah blood and cheese is the red wedding of house of the dragon yeah it's the thing that book readers are never gonna see coming and then they're gonna jump up and shout at their tv yeah yeah

[03:05:11] 100% yeah there's gonna be it's gonna be rough there's so many things that are gonna gonna be rough and i yeah i think um that was one thing that everything else was hard to watch

[03:05:25] about this episode because it was so emotional and saying goodbye to the series and how great of a performance it was and all the emotions that came with it between him and raneera and

[03:05:35] all the things that we talked about but then uh knowing what is coming like okay everything that we've watched this has all been great this has been fun look at all the things you know

[03:05:45] from the books and the callouts and the easter eggs and um and then new things that the show is bringing us but this this was a very real moment like oh now we know what's next

[03:05:57] yeah it's all just been warm up yeah if you can imagine that everything that even the horrors that have happened even before um and that we've already seen um is nothing like

[03:06:09] it's gonna be and i just don't know how to i don't know how to prepare for it because i know i'm gonna i would cry just reading the book you know the book was um i was like wow and and

[03:06:23] even with it being told in a historical retelling you know um way it was still moved me and the sadness would overcome me and i thought how the hell am i ever gonna watch a visual interpretation of these events you know um it's gonna be devastating

[03:06:41] mm-hmm you know one one might be tempted to say that george rr martin is just one sick puppy to think all these things up but the fact is is that he has based most of them

[03:06:53] all of these events on real historical things and just exaggerated them a little bit right and added dragons added some dragons right yeah well it's yeah and that's probably scary to think about that yeah he gets inspired from true events it's kind of similar like margaret atwood with

[03:07:13] handmaid's tail that's right exactly you know she's taken real things and kind of merged it into one um book or books but um you know that stuff ain't just fiction and george rr martin's point is

[03:07:32] you know there was a a poster in my youth uh that was very popular that said war is not good for children and other living things and uh that is his point in everything that he writes as well

[03:07:48] mm-hmm it's gonna be terrible it's just gonna be terrible that's i always try to tell people i'm like you know look they're like well i i'm team green because of this

[03:07:59] or i'm team like this i'm like you know what and the end doesn't matter i'm gonna tell you i was like oh everyone's bad everyone's gonna do bad things just to sum it up i'm just i don't know if i'm

[03:08:08] physically ready i don't know what they're going to bring to us in these last two episodes um well the next one is called the the green council so i am assuming that that's going to be all the

[03:08:19] maneuvering that um allicent and auto do to set up their usurpation uh while poor visceris is rotting in his bed because they won't let anybody know he's dead yet which is interesting because this is on which is interesting because um raneira is supposed to be at dragon stone

[03:08:43] when this goes down right well yes and they were on their way back right she was she was leaving leaving the morning she was taking the boys back taking taking the children back to dragon

[03:08:54] so she went to see them home and oh right she would return on i don't back right and i don't i don't think anybody will know that visceris is dead until the next morning i don't think

[03:09:05] he was alone because he's he's by himself he's alone right so i think that they will head back and then we'll see all the maneuverings of the green council and then the um last episode is

[03:09:18] called the black queen so i then i think we'll see most of the events that happen on dragon stone like in the meanwhile yeah because it's days and days before um raneira learns that they finally

[03:09:32] send the raven visceris is dead and and she's in labor right and she loses that baby um and so i think that those events and then they're they're planning her coronation and i think the last

[03:09:51] thing that we'll see at the end of episode 10 is raneira's coronation on on dragon stone i think you're right based on that's why we were talking about the titles of the show being kind of spoilery yeah spoilery yeah i mean i'm excited for all of it

[03:10:12] yes i'm i'm very interested to see what the show will do with the book material yeah filling in the gaps and agreed when you get two sides which side is right or

[03:10:23] both sides right as we kind of come to see as the story unfolds um so far or neither side entirely new like oh that isn't what we thought we knew um so i saw a weird note um the other day

[03:10:42] saying that like the maesters that wrote about the targaryens should be taken like even less seriously and less um as you know true just because of their hatred towards the targaryens and probably

[03:10:56] like the bias that they had so i'm enjoying seeing what you know the show is really unfolding and i'm enjoying the fact that both both have uh both accounts have kind of been true

[03:11:13] and they take a little bit of room they take a little bit of uh the maesters and they keep mixing it in except amused us yeah yeah well and one of the things that is very subtle i think in

[03:11:25] fire and blood is that um arch maester gildane never describes what the greens do as use or patient but that is what it is right and and because he's uh you know a champion of the

[03:11:44] patriarchy and anti-targaryen he doesn't call it usurpation but you you have to you have to read between the lines and realize that it is usurpation and in modern histories of the anarchy the real

[03:12:00] world event that is the basis of the dance of dragons um it's steven is is always described as having usurped matilda who was the named heir um so it you know it's it's very clear that that's what it is

[03:12:21] but it isn't called that by the the maester who's writing the book so i think that is an important detail and reliable narrators yeah somebody not willing to sign on to the fact that renera was

[03:12:41] the legal heir well and knowing that like the high towers in a sense you know because they're lords of old town and kind of in a way i don't know if you can really say that they control them

[03:12:56] but i mean being from old town and that's where the citadel is i mean do they have some sort of influence over the maesters a little bit so and considering auto high tower this position in the maesters

[03:13:12] so stupid auto high stupid auto high tower blasted i blame him all right 100 blame him oh man oh you know and one thing we didn't mention and i don't know if any of this was in your notes i know

[03:13:28] it sounds like we were getting ready to wrap up so i'm not sure um but we got um eric and eric and arick yes and uh i checked the cast and they are actually played by twins so there

[03:13:45] really are two of them it's not one actor playing both which it really needs to be because when they fight with each other that'll be a lot easier to stage a lot easier than the lanister twins that we

[03:13:55] have uh so far yeah that's awesome i love it and that is all i have right um rima do you have anything else no i've exhausted myself at this point okay well i think that that is our episode

[03:14:20] awesome i love that thank you so much for that intriguing book talk so much um that was awesome i love book talk yeah all right well you are very welcome it helps me it's good therapy for me honestly

[03:14:36] so and and and you notice that this week i have you serped the podcast in its entire no not at all not at all i think this is one of our best episodes yet yeah not at all we had a good time well next

[03:14:54] week we will be covering season one episode nine of house of the dragon titled the green council which is the penultimate episode of season one it's almost over uh you can leave more of your

[03:15:09] amazing feedback at our podcastica facebook page we post weekly feedback threads or you can leave feedback by email at dragoncastica.gmail.com go out and leave a review and please subscribe to dragoncast so everyone can find us on apple podcast uh you can find dragoncast at a bunch

[03:15:29] of other great podcasts at podcastica.com and that is our show thank you for listening everybody until next time i'm rima i'm christin and i'm rinnie dracarys