House of the Dragon S3E2 "Queen's Landing"

[00:00:31] Chibo

[00:00:58] Hey everybody, I'm Wendy. And I'm Renny. And I'm Veronica. And this is Dragon Cast, a podcast dedicated to House of the Dragon.

[00:01:25] And this week, we are discussing Season 3, Episode 2 of House of the Dragon, Queens Landing. And this is actually the series finale, so we can just end here. Yeah! And I think we're done. Yeah, totally. Hope everybody enjoyed this series, now that it's over with such a happy ending. What'd you guys think? I thought it was just about perfect.

[00:01:55] I think the first time through, I was kind of like, where do we go from here? But when I watched it the second time through, there's so, every scene is so juicy. Mm-hmm. I feel like it took me through a large range of emotions, including a lot of tears, and was just phenomenal.

[00:02:24] And Emma Darcy's performance was stellar. Oh my goodness. Just, I'm in awe. Agreed. Yeah. They are so good. Yes. Oh! So good. I mean, wow. And I, on the official podcast, the director was saying, no, I'm sorry, not the director,

[00:02:47] Sarah Hess, the writer, was saying that normally she, Sarah Hess, would write a big reaction scene where you get the news and then you cut and it's later, because she wouldn't ask an actor to play all that out, but she said, since we have Emma Darcy, we can just do the whole scene because we know what they can do. Yeah. So that's awesome.

[00:03:12] Like, towards the end, when Rhaenyra and Daemon were leaving Dragonstone, just the exhaustion was so real. Yeah. Like, you could just see. The way Emma, or Rhaenyra was standing. Mm-hmm. Like, almost, shoulders hunched, but not, like, it almost sounds comical to say they were hunched. It, to me, just felt like she was hollow.

[00:03:42] Mm-hmm. You know? And that was so, like, I'm tearing up right now just even, like, talking about it because it was so, I found it just amazing. Yeah. Yes. Who wants to go first? I will go first, if that's all right. Okay. Yeah. My first point is, dragons! Yes! Dragons!

[00:04:08] So I have several little pieces of this that all roll up into dragons. And I, they, I kind of got them chronologically how they come up in the, in the episode. So first, I just love Adam and Seasmoke. Yes! I love it that Seasmoke claimed Adam instead of the other way around. And, um, I think Seasmoke is just so beautiful.

[00:04:38] And in that scene where Adam is, um, gliding around over the gullet looking to find Corlys, that's just such a beautiful shot, that gray dragon against the gray sky. Mm-hmm. I just really, I really love that. So I love Adam and Seasmoke together. A pair that I don't love so much is Raina and Sheepstealer.

[00:05:03] Uh, Raina says Sheepstealer was frightened over the gullet. But I don't think Raina's very connected with Sheepstealer, because I don't think dragons have fear. Uh, and, uh, Raina also thinks that nobody knows that she was the one riding Sheepstealer. But we know that Bela saw her, and Bela knows.

[00:05:29] But we also know that Bela told Raina that Sheepstealer was there and what happened. But she evidently did not tell Rhaenyra who was riding Sheepstealer because... Do we know that Bela saw her? Yeah, because she says, that's my sister. I thought Raina said it. I thought Raina said it. About Bela. She said it to Sheepstealer. I don't know if Bela knows it was her. Oh, I thought Bela said, that's my sister. Jace is the one that said... Jace saw her. Yeah. Because Jace says Raina.

[00:05:58] I'm not sure that Bela did. Oh, oh, interesting. Okay. Mm-hmm. I mistook who said that, that's my sister. I just kind of assumed that Bela did, but I don't know that we got confirmation of that. I felt like she didn't see, there was no indication to me that she was lying. Okay, well now I'm gonna go... But I don't know for sure. I mean...

[00:06:22] I'm gonna go back to episode one and check that out and play it with subtitles and see who says, that's my sister. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um... And then we have the fleet of dragons heading for King's Landing. And it's like a squadron of B-52s flying over. Yeah. That... What a scary sight.

[00:06:46] If you were in King's Landing, seeing all those dragons fly over, that would be... It would be something to see that coming at you. Terrifying. Oh, and I have to say, I made a mistake in what I thought about the preview, the trailer, when we talked about it. I said I thought that Hugh's wife wasn't really in King's Landing anymore, but she is. Mm-hmm. She sees them come flying over. So I was wrong about that. She is still there.

[00:07:16] Oh, I have this slightly out of chronological order. So the other thing that struck me is that Damon treats Ulf and Hugh as if they were ordinary men, not dragon riders. Yeah. And that might not be such a good idea. And I was just thinking about it, and it really struck me that anyone who has a dragon is a really dangerous person. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:47] Especially Ulf, who seems like he's only loyal to himself, truly. Yes. Like, Hugh seems like he really wants to be an honorable man. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that, and has the... In terms of Ulf, I think he has sort of the decision-making skills of a middle schooler. So not only does he self-serving, but he just seems...

[00:08:15] I don't think innocence, and I don't really want to say, like, stupidity, but I worry about... Yes, brash, naive decisions from him. Yes. That's the best way to describe it. Which is dangerous with a dragon. Uh-huh. I did find it very satisfying when Damon slapped him. Yeah. I was like, I've been waiting for that. Absolutely.

[00:08:39] But if he pisses Ulf and Hugh, both of them off, they have two dragons that are both bigger than Caraxes. Mm-hmm. I'm not sure I play with that quite in the cavalier way that he does. That's... Typical Damon, he's going with fear. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. He thinks he can cowl them... Yeah. ...into being too afraid to piss him off. But if I have a dragon, why should I be afraid?

[00:09:08] Oh, because Damon has a dragon, too. Yeah, but they have bigger dragons. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of big dragons, then we have Vhagar at Harrenhal. So, there's that one shot of Vhagar flying over in the mist where you can barely see her through the mist. And then she emerges. And she attacks Harrenhal like her old buddy, Balerion.

[00:09:39] So, I just wanted to remind everybody of Vhagar's history. Uh, Aegon the Conqueror and his two sister-wives, Rhaenys and Visenya, had three dragons. And Meraxes was Rhaenys' dragon. Um, Balerion was Aegon's dragon. And Vhagar was Visenya's dragon.

[00:10:06] So, Aemond has a dragon that was flying around with the original conquerors. And, um, the reason that Harrenhal is all the stone is all melted is because when Harren the Black, who built it, refused to surrender, Aegon flew straight up and then straight back down.

[00:10:34] And Balerion, who was the largest dragon alive at the time, just melted the castle. Uh, cause Harren made some jest, some taunt, like stone doesn't burn. And Aegon the Conqueror said, think again.

[00:10:51] And, uh, so it's really, uh, deja vu for Harrenhal to have now, again, the biggest dragon alive, who is now Vhagar, uh, come and breathe fire all over it again. I was thinking that Harrenhal's been through a lot. It has. Yeah. It certainly has.

[00:11:16] I felt like it was amazing, kind of, the scale you got of Vhagar in that scene. Yes. Because I was remembering back to last season when I think we saw both Cyrax and Caraxes sort of like on the roof of that same-ish area in Harrenhal, I think. And like, seeing them perched on the roof looking in, they seemed relatively small. Mm-hmm.

[00:11:42] In comparison to the fact that Vhagar couldn't even get more than her head, I guess, through like. Yeah. It's like, I don't know, terrifying how large she is. Yes. Uh, well, and speaking of terrifying, so my, my main point here about dragons is, um, that I think it's always important to remember.

[00:12:10] And in the main A Song of Ice and Fire series, George R.R. Martin keeps reminding us, not the show, the books, George R.R. Martin keeps reminding us that dragons are monsters. And it's so easy to forget that because dragons are just so cool. Yeah. I mean, I want a dragon. Yes. But I have to acknowledge that what I want by wanting a dragon is I want a monster.

[00:12:38] Um, and you know, the, the scene that I think makes it really clear that is in the main Game of Thrones show is when, uh, that sheep herder brings the bones of his little girl who Drogon, Drogon has roasted and eaten, uh, to Daenerys for looking for recompense and not for a sheep, but for his daughter. Um, dragons eat people.

[00:13:08] Dragons roast and eat people. Yeah. Which, um, ties into what, uh, the, uh, Lonnie Perister, the director of the previous episode said on the official podcast, what he said, the, the theme of this season, this whole season is in a nuclear war, nobody wins. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:38] I feel like a few times that was sort of stated in different ways just in this episode by different characters. Yes. Yes. I do have something a little bit more lighthearted about dragons, which is, do dragons really drink water? And if they do drink water, does it turn to steam when they swallow? Because we saw Caraxes drinking out of the God's Eye Lake. That was so weird.

[00:14:05] I liked it though, because it, they had a few moments and I think I feel foolish how much I liked these moments in retrospect after the statement you just made, which is so true. But I think they had a few moments that made the dragons seem like big, sweet pets. Right. And I think that was sort of one of them where it's just, Oh, it's a dragon drinking. I don't know. Caraxes is so cute.

[00:14:34] Yeah. And then there was that one scene with Caraxes and Cyrax, like nuzzling, I guess. Right. Was that right before they went to King's Landing? Mm-hmm. I don't know. And that just was like, Oh, I want a pet dragon. But yeah. I mean, those two probably spend a lot of time together, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:57] Well, and there is historically there, there's a precedent of if there's a couple and they both have dragons, the dragons also have some sort of relationship. Hmm. So Vermithor and Silverwing, who were the dragons of King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne were, they were also a mated pair. So are Hugh and Ulf going to get together? Uh, you know, it could happen. I don't know. I think Hugh should have better taste than Ulf.

[00:15:27] Yes. Hugh's a hottie. Ulf is not. Yes. I mean, Ulf is nothing if not a comedian though. That is true. Yeah. He would make you laugh. Yes. Yeah. All right. That's my dragon point. I just wanted to add one last thing, which is we got to hear Cyrax's whistle a lot this episode. And it was, it's Caraxes that whistles? Mm-hmm. Ugh, I thought it was coming from Cyrax. Whatever. I love the dragon whistle.

[00:15:57] Like, it's just so, I don't know, again, on the endearing part of dragons. Yeah. And yeah, what Ryan Condal has said is that Caraxes has a deviated septum. And that's why he whistles like that. Well, that makes me love it even more. Needs a nose job. Mm-hmm. Maybe he and Sheepstealer can go get some reconstruction of their palates. Yeah.

[00:16:26] Well, I thought, speaking of dragons, that was interesting that they said that wild dragons can't be tamed. Which is clearly not true. Right. But I thought that was interesting. Mm-hmm. Like, so all the dragons that we know of up until this point have been dragons that were raised with people. Yes. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:50] And even if they're, the person they're bonded with dies, they can bond with somebody else. Yes. That's because they've been bonded previously. Allegedly. Allegedly.

[00:17:04] Yeah, one of the things that people who are, you know, super fans of the books and spend too much time trying to figure things out about the books say is that the books have not really fully explained the dragon bond. Yeah. What it is and how it works. It's referred to as the dragon bond.

[00:17:31] But how you get bonded to a dragon isn't clear. So there is more there that might be revealed or might not be revealed. I like the ambiguity. Mm-hmm. Because if they don't really understand it fully in world, I kind of like the, I don't know, that we won't really know.

[00:17:51] Well, and you know, there's a lot of lost knowledge regarding dragons because there were many families in old Valyria who were dragon riders, not just the Targaryens. But old Valyria blew up all the volcanoes, the 14 volcanoes all erupted. And the eruption was so fierce that it ignited dragons who were flying in the sky.

[00:18:15] And the only Valyrians and the only dragons who survived were the ones on Dragonstone and Drifmar. Basically the Targaryens and the Valerians, also the Celtogars. Those were the main families who had any survivors. And the dragon keepers who were there on Dragonstone were the only surviving dragon keepers.

[00:18:44] So what they knew in old Valyria was lost except for the knowledge that was preserved by the Targaryens and their dragon keepers on Dragonstone. All right, I can go next. Awesome. My point was Sir Laurent is the worst. I was really pissed off at him last week. And then this week he just made everything worse.

[00:19:16] I'm sure he thinks he's an honorable man, but I just wasn't buying it. I mean, he's directly culpable in Jace's death. Rhaenyra gave orders. Laurent decided that following the orders was less important than protecting her. And he got to decide that he was going to protect her.

[00:19:39] And he helped keep her confined while Jace went off and ultimately died from his impulsiveness. To me, he betrayed the oath that he swore. He swore to obey, I'm sure. And then he just makes it all worse in this episode. Like Jace's body is brought home. Rhaenyra is experiencing this terrible grief. Laurent literally puts his hands on her to haul her off of Jace.

[00:20:09] And I was just furious watching this scene. You know, and what I kept thinking of, like, would he have done this to Viserys? Would he have done this to Aegon? No, he would not have done that. You know, would he have physically restrained Aegon? No. And then I felt like he made it all about him.

[00:20:32] Then in the middle of Rhaenyra grieving for Jace, he like makes this big show of basically saying you have the right to kill me. Which of course she does. And I just feel like he made it all about him. It was like, this isn't about you. This is about her and her son.

[00:20:52] And I just thought that no one would dare have told a king that his orders didn't matter because he was too emotional or no one would dare decide that a king needed to be protected from himself. In so many ways, Rhaenyra has to be twice as hard as any man because she has to prove herself time and time again. And if she is twice as hard, I fear she will be judged twice as hard as well.

[00:21:22] Yeah. You can't win. Yeah. And then it's like he wants acknowledgement of his guilt. Like, what did you think was going to happen with that big show of you admitting your terrible, terrible actions? Read the room. I loved in the end that the matter is decided by Rhaenyra kind of like almost as an afterthought yelling behind her. Or just tell him to kill himself any other way. I don't care.

[00:21:52] He can choose how he dies. I didn't appreciate that. Yeah, I thought that was great. And that was about all he deserved. It wasn't just him. It was a lot of people in that room, but he was the one who put it all into action. Yeah.

[00:22:07] I think it's just another, you know, along this theme that they've taken from season one of just the patriarchy and how much is sort of against women in this world. And I think it's a very good reflection of how women are treated in our own present day culture and throughout history. Yeah.

[00:22:36] It's so I, I was glad they kind of put that matter to rest and that's over with now. Iconic vibes. We are all the best. Wow! Geht mit Euphoria in die dritte Staffel. A few years after Highschool. I didn't know if life was so, like I wanted to. We streamed on April 13th parallel to the US-Start. We're always getting a new episode. The problem is, when you're running a pack with the hell, there's no more back.

[00:23:05] We're also having more highlights like House of the Dragon and Wicked. Everything from just 2,98€ in the month. Streaming was never so wow. Our recommendation for your podcast? Freshes Obst and tasty food from Aldi. Always good. Always good. Always good. Always good. Always good. Just a fresh for everyone. This week Mini-Wassermelon. That kilo for only 1,29€. Or Nectarinen.

[00:23:33] The 1kg-Schale for only 1,89€. Find now many other offers in your Aldi Nord-Filial. And now we're going to go. Just listen and enjoy. Aldi. Goods for all. How about you, Veronica? I feel like that I should talk about the fact that I think I am finally softening quite significantly on Alicent. Whoa! Wow! And I think that's a big deal.

[00:24:03] You know, I think Alicent has paid many prices. I've never argued that she wasn't a victim. In addition to, I still hold her accountable for a lot. I think of the really crappy decisions that she has made that have helped lead to all the death and destruction that's already happened. I'm not saying that I've softened on any of my stance on those things.

[00:24:28] I don't think she has done some truly atrocious and hypocritical things. But I think she has paid quite significant prices over the years for many of those things. I still think Otto's treatment of her and sending her to Viserys, I think she was very much pigeonholed into that and that that is a horrible life for a young girl to be forced into.

[00:24:55] And I think, you know, she's suffered all these losses throughout all of this and I think she has shown attrition and she came through for what she said to Rhaenyra, not just to be self-serving but because she wants not everyone to pay the price. She doesn't want innocent people to pay the price. She would like to at least save one child that is worth saving, Helena.

[00:25:27] And so I think, you know, I think I see that in her actions. You know, she risked a lot this episode and I think did smart things the last couple episodes to have this play out the way that it did. And obviously, I think there are still a lot of bad things to come. And I think things went too far to really like stop or reverse them.

[00:25:52] But at least she was true to her word and sort of trying. Yeah. More than anybody else is really doing. Yeah. And like out there just trying to burn the world, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:10] She really is the only one on team green that has realized, oh, this, you know, things are not playing out how we wanted and I need to step back some from my hard stance and, you know, try to figure out what I can scrap together from what's left. And she's really got a lot of self-doubt now about what she understood Viserys to be saying.

[00:26:38] And I think that makes me, it's not, I didn't disbelieve her. Like, I think I realized when she had the conversation last season with Rhaenyra that she really truly believed Viserys had told her that.

[00:26:53] But something about talking about it with Helena and Helena's surprise, something about that really rang true to me that like Allison really did think, oh my God, my husband finally at the last minute decided to honor our son, which is what I think he should have done the whole time. And now I'm like doubly, you know, confident in these actions.

[00:27:18] Um, and so, yeah, that just rang true to me and I feel like she's done some shitty things, but she's trying now, like you said, Wendy. Mm-hmm. And it was really hard to watch the scene that they had with Lord Jasper and Allison, um, where he was trying to rape her.

[00:27:40] And, um, it was despicable the way he, to me, it felt like he was saying, well, since Sir Crispin has had you, you're a fair game for any of us to take what we want from you. And that felt not unfamiliar to things I've encountered in life. Um, I'm sure many, many other women. And I saw someone online questioning about whether the scene was necessary.

[00:28:08] And I don't know if it was necessary, but I think it was on theme with, you know, what we're, what this whole show has been about, which is a lot of the battles that women face that are a bit different from what men face. And how even a woman in a position of a lot of power is still sort of subject to men treating them as objects.

[00:28:33] And, um, yeah, it, it was sad and frustrating to watch. And I'm glad that it was stopped. The moment he got the tiniest bit of leverage. Yeah. That's where he went, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just, just how long had he sat across the table from her thinking those vile things? And the moment he gets the opportunity, he takes it.

[00:29:02] And, I mean, that just shows you who he is. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, his nickname is Iron Rod. And that's partially because he's a firm upholder of the law, but not entirely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah.

[00:29:23] In summary, I'm softening on Allison, and it was just terrible to watch another iteration of her victimization in this system of things. So I'm sure, uh, Kelly, if you're listening, I'm sure you're clapping that I've finally, uh, softened. And hopefully Wendy. Yes.

[00:29:44] That you're also happy that I'm, I'm not team green, but I feel like Allison is just, yeah, she's more a victim in any of this than she is an aggressor at this point. Right. Yeah. Her only hope right now is that she can keep Helena and her daughter alive. That, that's about all she's going for. Like, she's already wrote off Aegon and Aemond.

[00:30:11] And I doubt, you know, the murder of her father. I'm sure it will impact her, but, you know, I feel like she probably already thought that was a goner. Maybe her son, her other son, maybe she has hopes for him, but, yeah. I don't know. I think she's going to hold the death of her father against Rhaenyra because she didn't know he was there in prison. So she didn't know that he was at risk.

[00:30:41] She didn't? No. No. Because remember, it was, it was Larys who threw Otto into the cells because, um, everybody else thought he had left King's Landing. Yeah, we thought he was at Hightower. Yeah. We thought he had went back to Hightower. It turns out he never got away because Larys, um, put him, put him in the cells as another bargaining chip. That's all Larys is doing is building up bargaining chips everywhere he can.

[00:31:11] He's the prior, prior iteration, prior iteration of Peter Baelish. Absolutely. You know, making sure he can get a little slip. And to every side and create chaos and climb the ladder. Well, my next point follows nicely on, on yours, Veronica, because mine is, uh, Rhaenyra is starting to become like a king. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:41] Like she said in the last episode. And she's doing it by enacting violence with her own hand. It's a major turning point for her, I think. Um, the line that Damon says to her, in this moment, you will become queen. That was in the trailer. And I had no guess as to what moment he was talking about.

[00:32:03] And I was really taken by surprise that this is that moment, but it makes perfect sense because in the patriarchal system, the ability, the willingness to enact violence is power. And, you know, by saying in this moment, you will become queen.

[00:32:24] I think what he means is that her willingness to act like a king will make her a ruling queen at last. Um, but I do have to admit that I actually did get shivers when he put Dark Sister in her hand. Yes. Dark Sister. I mean, he did that because it's a Valyrian steel sword, so it's much sharper and she'll have a better chance of actually chopping off Otto's head.

[00:32:52] Oh, by the way, I didn't notice this, but I heard it in the official podcast. The sword that Rhaenyra is wearing is Jace's sword. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just an ordinary sword. It's not Valyrian steel. But let me, let me say a word about the meaning of Dark Sister in this context as well. It's more than it's just a Valyrian steel sword. It was Visenya Targaryen's sword.

[00:33:19] So same Visenya who was Vhagar's rider. She was a warrior that, you know, Aegon and his two sister wives, one of his sisters was warlike and butch. That's Visenya. And the other was not. And that's Rhaenys who was much softer. She did have a dragon, but she didn't go around armed. Visenya did.

[00:33:45] Visenya actually is the one who convinced Aegon to start the tradition of the Kingsguard. Visenya actually started it herself. But the way that she convinced him he needed a Kingsguard is they were walking down the hallway and Visenya whipped out Dark Sister and slashed Aegon across the face with it. And said, see, I could have killed you. And if I could have killed you, anyone could have killed you. So you need a Kingsguard. And Aegon said, OK. But that was Visenya, right?

[00:34:15] She was willing to. She she fought not just with her dragon. I mean, Rhaenys fought with her dragon as well. But Visenya fought in, quote unquote, masculine style combat. And so. Rhaenyra taking her first personal, not with a dragon, but with her hand, act of violence with Dark Sister, I think, has that echo to it as well.

[00:34:45] That's what I was going to ask is. Has Rhaenyra ever killed before? No. Just a pig, right? Yeah. Or a boar. Yes. Yes. She killed the hell out of that wild boar. Yeah. But it's not a person. That's how she got her strong, interested. She walked back covered in that pig's blood. And I don't think he could ever look back. That's right. That's right.

[00:35:10] You know, and we see the two most powerful men in the story, Aemond and Damon, slicing through dozens of men in their various combat situations. They're both super adept fighters. And they both killed ridiculous numbers. Yeah.

[00:35:39] In every combat that they get into. Only one or two at a time, though. Yeah. Yeah. But I think they're, the way that they're regarded, they're regarded as powerful. They're regarded as dangerous. And it just demonstrates that in this culture, the culture of Westeros, you have to wield violence in order to have power. And that's why Rhaenyra had to do what she did.

[00:36:10] Although she didn't even, she wasn't even sure that she could do it. And I love it that she screws up the first stroke and, you know, hits him kind of in the middle of the shoulders instead of taking his head off. And I deserved it. By the way, footnote, good riddance to Otto Hightower. Because the entire Dance of the Dragons is his fault. It's his fault.

[00:36:34] He is the one who pushed and pushed and pushed to have Aegon become king, even though Viserys was very clear that he never wanted to change who his heir was. And Otto, a couple of times, said things that indicated that he thought he knew better than the king who he was supposed to be serving. He said, Aegon became heir the moment he was born. Viserys just doesn't recognize that. Viserys gets to say.

[00:37:04] And not Otto. So I was not sorry to see Otto go. No, and I thought, like, that's what finally gave Rhaenyra the final oomph to do it was him spouting his bullshit. Yeah. And he says, let Daemon do it. Like, oh, honey, sweet little girl, you can't possibly do this. Oh, you want to bet? Just watch me.

[00:37:32] But then there's a real omen, a real foreboding, a real something, which is that Rhaenyra walks to the throne through Otto's blood and the throne is reflected in the blood. That was an epic shot, though. It was so good. I mean, wow.

[00:37:57] I saw a pretty good edit, and now I can't, like, get this out of my head. But Cardi B has a song, Kodak Yellow, I think. And it's, like, these expensive, these is red bottoms, these is bloody shoes. It's talking about Louis Vuitton with the red bottoms. But after seeing that and just watching her, like, red boots on the bottom, literally covered in blood. Yeah. Like, it was pretty good, pretty powerful scene.

[00:38:27] I liked, like, the emotions that were showing across her face of both, like, you saw the fear and the almost, like, I don't know if it was even relief, but then determination. I feel like there at the end that this is what I had to do, and I'm here. I have a question. And Otto, one of the things he says is that this is just as I expected.

[00:38:55] And when he says that, do you think he means this is just as he expected that they are, you know, terrible people? Or this is just as he expected that Aegon fucked it all up and lost it? You know? Because that's the last thing he kind of did was walk out on Aegon after being fired.

[00:39:21] I think that's what he means is that Aegon and Christian Cole would not be able to run things and that they would leave the door open for Rhaenyra to, and Daemon. Yeah. Although he probably expected it to be more Daemon than Rhaenyra. Sure. Yeah, because he's a sexist. Sure. I mean, that was the whole basis of his claim. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:39:51] Interestingly, though, he's kind of wrong because the person who messed it all up isn't Aegon. It's Aemond. Yeah. By burning Aegon. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I feel like I'm going to steal this from you, Veronica. I am absolutely loving the new and improved Daemon. Dang, you are stealing it, but I'm here for it. I don't care who leads it. I just want to talk about it and hear about it. Yeah.

[00:40:21] I think one of my favorite moments of the whole episode was the scene with the Rivermen and the Northmen celebrating their victory over the Lannisters. We see I couldn't help but think about Damon in the first couple episodes of the series where we see him, you know, carousing with his his buddies.

[00:40:45] So you got that feeling for it, you know, and it was really nice because there wasn't a lot of light in this episode. So we needed a little lightness. But then as soon as he gets the word about Jace, he immediately his whole demeanor changes. He becomes very serious. You know, we see that that that grief and that tension. And.

[00:41:14] I feel like not necessarily that Damon has become softer because I mean, we saw him kill how many people just in this episode. He's not softer. He's still really fierce, but he is kind of that strength that he has is pointed in the same direction as Rhaenyra.

[00:41:35] Just like he said, instead of competing with it, he's the queen's fist and he really is leaning into that notion. And you can tell, you know, I think for most of his life, Damon struggled with that kind of authority with Rhaenyra and Viserys. He I don't even think it was that he wanted the crown or that he thought he'd be better at it.

[00:42:04] I think it was more that it's just his nature to rebel against anyone trying to put structure to it. He's finally accepted that Rhaenyra is his queen and that's his duty and his job. And. And.

[00:42:25] When she was really struck down with grief because of Jace, I feel like it was only Damon and the pull of the song of ice and fire. That was the only thing that could kind of yank Rhaenyra out of her grief enough to get her on her feet and get her up and doing what she needed to do. And the two of them talking in high Valerian to each other was just so special.

[00:42:55] And there have been times throughout this series that I've been like, he is not the guy for you, Rhaenyra. But you can really see how he's kind of stepping into that role. And I loved it. And I think even like the.

[00:43:13] The love triangle that's being set up with Misseria, Damon and Rhaenyra, the old Damon would have been really threatened by that and probably reacted badly and flew off on his dragon. But he kind of meets it head on and there's some banter back and forth, but it doesn't deter him. And I just loved it. This is the Damon we've been waiting for. Yeah.

[00:43:41] I think Damon just needs a purpose, his aggression and skill set when he has just needs to be pointed in a good direction. And then he is a leader of men and is someone you want to be behind. And is he nice? No. But like you saw, I mean, 20 years ago, the gold cloaks were loyal to him. Mm-hmm. And that helped because he was someone they wanted to follow.

[00:44:11] And like you said, like the way he was with the men in the woods, like he is a leader. He just has not had like a rudder up until now. And it's not called hot D for nothing. And in my heart, it's hot Damon because he is just the best character. Mm-hmm. And I love him more, like you said, seeing him put behind Rhaenyra and for her cause.

[00:44:38] All I could think the whole time is what if Viserys had just let him marry Rhaenyra when he asked all those years ago? They still ended up married now. Yep. I think people would have fallen behind them. And I even think that Damon, with a good purpose, even if Viserys had named him king, which Rhaenyra would have been fine with, she never wanted to really leave.

[00:45:08] Like, I think he could have been this Damon as king because he wouldn't have had this threat. He would have been. And I don't know, it made me sad to think like, ugh, all of this could have been avoided. Yeah. That we wouldn't have had Jace face to love and adore, but then also he wouldn't have had to die in this terrible way. So, yeah. I agree. I think that was the dynastic solution.

[00:45:35] Let Damon marry Rhaenyra and be king. And he would probably not have maintained much interest in ruling. And Rhaenyra would have ended up doing most of the work. And she would have been good at it. And Damon could go off being swashbuckling. Yeah. And he would have been happy. And there would not have been a civil war. Yeah.

[00:46:02] And they would have made beautiful little toe-headed children to inherit. Yeah. So no more dynastic problems. But, I mean, if you think back to Damon of that time when that was suggested, I would have been scared to name him my successor too, probably if I was Viserys. Because you hadn't seen him be this version of Damon yet. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:30] I don't blame Viserys for being leery. But I do think Viserys probably lent towards what his advisors, Otto, you know, wanted. Yeah. He was being manipulated by them. And he saw it in some ways, but then in other ways he didn't. And Damon saw it and tried to call it out to him and be like, why are you not leaning on your family?

[00:46:57] Like, that's been the Targaryen way for a long time. And he was letting Otto squash that. And I think that led to a lot of Damon's bad behavior. Yes. Yeah. Well, and in another period of Targaryen history, that's part of what fuels the Blackfyre rebellions. So a lot of civil wars come out of this same problem amongst the Targaryens. Yeah.

[00:47:26] I really just have kind of some smaller stuff left. But I feel like, I don't know if we should talk more about Jace and that scene with Rhaenyra. I know we opened with it. Yeah. I have cried every time I've thought about it. I'm probably, I'm already tearing up now. I just felt like it was masterful acting.

[00:47:52] And yeah, she, it was just, her grief was well played out. In scene. And I think it was, I wasn't expecting to see that Bela was able to recover Jace's body and bring him back. And I watched an interview with, I'm forgetting the actor's name that plays Jace, with him. Harry Collette.

[00:48:19] Harry Collette saying that nobody really knew it was actually going to be him playing himself dead. They kind of, many of them just assumed it would be a dummy. I don't remember if this was in the after show. I think it was. Okay. Um, and just how difficult it was for even him to get through it because it was so emotional. And how Emma Darcy take after take after take kept hitting those same heights of emotion.

[00:48:49] Um, and I think that actress who plays Bela also was commenting on, on the same thing. Um, I think Emma Darcy needs to win some awards for this episode. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Amazing. It was really, really amazing. Um, and I think it's definitely an episode of turning points for her. And I am afraid of what that means.

[00:49:19] Um, you know, this was. That everybody should be afraid, be very afraid of what happens from here. Yeah. I mean that, like you said, that reflection in the pool of blood while an absolutely epic shot was, um, felt like it was very foreboding of what this means for her to be climbing the throne.

[00:49:42] And I think, you know, it's impossible for her to not carry the, that grief, which seems to have turned to angry determination at this point. And I think while Damon's words to her were poignant that like, basically your sons have already paid the price. Don't let it be for nothing. Essentially when he kind of spurred her to get out of bed.

[00:50:09] Um, I think that it has turned from, you know, sadness and denial to just anger, determination. And, um, you know, I've lost a child and I think you have to find a way through that grief. And if you don't, um, find ways to heal and use it for something to propel you forward in a positive way, um, it can really destroy you.

[00:50:38] And I'm really worried for what it's going to do to the decisions that Rainier makes. So that's all I want to say about it. Cause I'm already crying on the podcast. So, uh, that's okay. Anyways, we better, we better see some awards go to Emma Darcy for this because in her face, in that scene, in Rainier's body language, in every step Rainier took this episode, I think

[00:51:04] there was a different embodiment of what she has experienced in all these losses. And it was really powerful. Yeah. Hard agree. Yeah. Okay. Um, so I want to circle back a little bit to the conversation about Damon because my next

[00:51:29] point is Damon loyal slash Amon disloyal is I think an interesting adaptation of the source material because in the source material, both of them, Amon and Damon surprisingly remain faithful to their respective sovereign. Damon only supports Rainier's claim.

[00:51:58] Amon only supports Aegon in the book. Amon doesn't name himself King. He's just the, the, the, the regent while Aegon is, um, uh, recuperating. Um, and I think that taking them now from this point, Amon, or Damon having toyed with

[00:52:21] the idea of being disloyal last season and usurping himself, uh, but now going strongly down the loyal path. Um, and Amon just going wildly disloyal to, to Aegon, um, is, it, it just sets up a really interesting

[00:52:50] pairing and contrast of those two because, uh, you know, they are reflections, mirrors of, of each other. Uh, Amon has always modeled himself on Damon, uh, and now he's going off in his own direction of

[00:53:14] making some amount of attempt to usurp his own brother and become King himself, uh, which he's always wanted to do because remember when they were looking for Aegon after Viserys died. Yeah. And Amon said, if they come looking for me, I intend to be found. Yeah.

[00:53:35] Um, and so, you know, the more he goes off on that path of being disloyal to Aegon and, you know, Aegon or Laryus was motivated to get Aegon out of King's Landing before the invasion because of the fear that Amon would kill him.

[00:54:00] Um, so, you know, it's pretty obvious what Amon has in mind. Uh, and I think it just, it makes, it makes the two of them even more interesting. And I can't wait to see what Alice Rivers is going to do to Aamon. I am, I am hoping that's what the, you know, this next episode might be because what is it? What is it that they called it, Renny?

[00:54:30] Like, uh, unconventional or something? Unconventional, yeah. Yeah. Um. I'm hoping it's this. I figured she's deciding whether or not to help him. And I think it was the conversation that she had with Damon. Yes. Which, like, sorry, yes, he owes you a lot, but, like, everybody thinks they can just be gifted castles in Westeros. What? There's only so many castles.

[00:54:59] And it's like, I don't know if that was really the most reasonable request of her. It wasn't a reasonable request. But again, Damon, you know, he's, he's willing to treat full grown men with big dragons like their bratty little kids. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:23] And, and he's willing to just completely scoff at Alice Rivers despite the power that she's shown him that she has. You know, he, if he's, he says, ha, ha, ha, you can't have Harrenhal. She could just throw him into another hallucination if she wanted to. Yeah, he's foolish. He's. He is foolish. He hasn't, he hasn't learned any humility. No, no, no humility.

[00:55:51] No, neither Eamon nor Damon has any, any humility. But yes, I, I, I am hoping the same that the, the self could, the one character, one location or, you know, one set of characters, one location focused episode will be Eamon and, and Alice Rivers because I think they could really go to town on that one. So, Renny, can you help us understand?

[00:56:19] Like, I know Crispy Cole said, let's go follow Eamon to Harrenhal. Is that army of river men and Northmen in their way of getting to Harrenhal? Or can they skirt that? They can skirt them. And will they get there pretty quickly? Because that's the other thing I was thinking is like, Alice might be able to like, F around some with Eamon to mess him up.

[00:56:46] But there's an army that's loyal to him at their heels. Yeah, I don't know. Or at her heels. I don't know how far away they are. Crispy Cole's army. I don't know exactly where they are because it, this, it diverges from the book because in the book, Eamon flies with the army all the way to Harrenhal. So they're never separate. Okay.

[00:57:15] And all do seem to be moving very quickly. Yes. Well, there is that. Yeah. And that's okay. But yeah, so I don't know just exactly where, where Crispin, Crispin Cole's army is, but yeah. And so I don't know how long it'll take them to get there, but yeah, I guess you can, you can adjust the speed of travel.

[00:57:44] It can be super fast or super slow, depending on what your plot needs. Yeah. Yeah. So King's Landing is south of Harrenhal and the God's Eye Lake, it's a really huge lake. It's the largest lake in Westeros, I think.

[00:58:16] And you can, the, the King's Road goes to the east of it, but you can also cut around the west of it. And if you, you know, if armies were on opposite sides of the lake, they'd never see each other. They'd never know they were there. Oh, okay. So it would be entirely possible to miss each, each other.

[00:58:43] Oh, by the way, another thing that I found, something else I found out is that when Hugh and Ulf were hanging out with the dragons, waiting for Eamon to show up and Alice Rivers came and talked to them and they saw a green man, they weren't actually on the Isle of Faces, which is in the middle of the lake. They were on the shore of the God's Eye. Because remember, I couldn't figure out how Alice Rivers would have gotten there and maybe it was a projection. No, she was really there, but they weren't on the Isle of Faces.

[00:59:11] They were just on the shore near Harrenhal. Okay. All right. Back to me. Yeah. Back to you. I'm just going to talk more about what you talked about, Veronica.

[00:59:33] When Rhaenyra finally sits on the Iron Throne and I kept, it was so reminiscent of Daenerys as she was approaching the throne. I couldn't help but think of Daenerys. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it seems like a hollow victory. What does it cost her to get there?

[00:59:59] I mean, blood has been spilled through every step of the way. Both her sons gone. Helena's child gone. Rhaenys is gone. Aegon burned and broken. Aemond, we don't know what's happening with him. And the dragons that we've lost, right? So, stop me if I'm wrong, but I think we've lost Vermax. Yes.

[01:00:29] Arax. Yes. Sunfire and Melis all gone. Melis. I don't think we know for sure. Did we see Sunfire actually die? We did not. And so that's a question mark for me. Especially given what Aegon said, saying he wants to go to Rook's Rest. It just made me think. That's right. That's where it happened. Will that somehow is Sunfire there?

[01:00:57] But we definitely have lost Melis, Arax, and Vermax. Yeah. And, you know, none of it can ever be worth it at this point. No. It's all just trying to get a hold of things, but I understand how she feels.

[01:01:18] And, you know, the exhaustion and the grief is just spilling out of her, even when she's got that throne. Yeah. And, you know, the last thing that we do is spill out of Hightower's blood all over the place because, you know, that was kind of the last thing that she had to do before getting up there. It's just prophetic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:50] Yeah. The look that she has on her face in the closing scene there up on that throne. I thought that that was as good face acting as the end of season one when she turns around from the fireplace after Lucas died. Yeah. Yeah. And it would have been a great ending shot for season two if this had been the last episode of season two, which it really should have been. Right. We could call this season two, episode 10.

[01:02:23] Sad that. That's it for me. I have mostly notes left. I do too. Like all my other things are very small. Same. I think this is a happy one for me, so I'll go with the surprise I have found in enjoying the scenes with Larys and Aegon. Oh, yeah. I knew last season that I really liked Tom Carney playing Aegon.

[01:02:51] Like really somehow is making this petulant, what should be an absolutely despicable character. Very comedic almost without being like clunky and too silly for the show. And I feel like Larys and Aegon feel like they're on like a little sitcom side adventure to me. Yeah.

[01:03:19] This episode when they get, so the people attacking them are basically the Triarchy pirates that have come, right? And that's what sort of stops their wagon. But Larys bonking him on the head with the cage. And then even what was, you know, a pretty like violent scene of Aegon like arrow stabbing him in the side. It's still, I don't know. I found it very enjoyable. I like the dynamic.

[01:03:49] They're both constantly like bickering with one another. They both think the other one's ideas are the absolute worst. And as long as women aren't around for Larys to be a creep, he doesn't creep me out as much. I would still, you know, be quite happy to see his demise.

[01:04:09] But I don't mind right now him lingering as long as it's this little unlikely duo, odd couple hobbling around Westeros together. Yeah, I almost can't help but root for Aegon a little, you know? Right? Yeah. That's what I wrote in my notes. I like, I'm like, yes, I want Rhaenyra on the throne. No doubts about that. But I just can't help.

[01:04:38] But, you know, and I do think like he's learning perseverance because he's been through a lot. Right. Right. The line of Larys's that I like is when he opens the coach or when the coach door is open and he sticks his head out and he says, oh, I was wrong. I am surprised. Yeah. So that that hopefully we continue this season.

[01:05:07] I hope they're not split soon. And honestly, I hope they're not really like found soon. Like, I just wouldn't keep seeing the two of them going around together. And just like him saying that he's going to be in pain before he's going to ask Larys for anything. It just really shows like how he's becoming more he's becoming stronger, you know? So, yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:34] And I sorry, because I feel like this is like the fifth time this episode that I've been like, well, it just makes me wonder if it had played out different. But again, with Aegon, I think as a teen, I just felt like there would never be like he's just a despicable rotten to the core apple. But now in retrospect, I'm like, if he'd actually had a mother and father who were present, he might have actually turned out to be a halfway decent human being.

[01:06:04] But he had Alicent who was too young and not in an emotional place to be a mother. She was having to father these children for an old man. And Viserys was already starting to decay. Literally decay. Right. If Aegon had actually had a better upbringing, like maybe he would have also turned out to be a somewhat decent human. I don't know.

[01:06:34] I mean, that's what they said is that King's Landing was no place to raise a child, right? Yeah. Although Rhaenyra was raised there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. But Viserys was actually a good father at that point. He was still emotionally and physically present, as was her mother, right?

[01:06:56] Her mother was actually in love with her father and, you know, not forced in as a teen bride to father children for a king. All right. That's all I had for that. Other notes? Yeah. Yeah. I have a few. I love the title. Queen's Landing. Mm-hmm. The place is called King's Landing.

[01:07:25] So let's change that. Let's make it Queen's Landing. I like it. Yep. Is this the first time there's ever been a queen ruling? Yes. Not the last. Anybody who is actually crowned queen. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:48] Visenya and Aegon, it is thought that Visenya probably did a lot of the ruling when Aegon was king. But she was just his sister wife, not crowned queen. So yeah, she is the first and only crowned queen in Westeros history. Sorry.

[01:08:13] The song that Damon and the winter wolves and his troops were singing, that does confirm that that battle was indeed the fish feed, also known as the battle by the lakeshore. I liked that they slipped that in, though, because if I hadn't had you, Reni, I wouldn't have known for sure that that's what that battle was supposed to be. And so I appreciate it as a book reader.

[01:08:43] Yes. I needed it spelled out for me. Yes. So that was nice of them. Yes. Bela. Bela moves on quickly. And in true Targaryen fashion, she starts getting close to her half-uncle, Alan.

[01:09:09] I really liked what I am kind of referring to as the Valerians, even though Bela is a Targaryen. I really liked that scene of the four of them there together. And I'm excited. They seem like the most true good of the characters left. Yeah. And did I read that right, that Corlys is legitimizing him? Yeah. Yes, that's another thing that I had a note on.

[01:09:36] Corlys says, if this be victory, I hope I never see another. And he's looking at his burning castle high tide off in the distance. But claiming his sons is another sort of victory. And Alan says he'd rather have the Valerian name than a mountain of gold. So yes, from now on, it's Alan Valerian and Adam Valerian.

[01:10:06] I mean, Corlys says he's going to give him his name. They'll have to be some sort of official legitimization. Sure. But that'll probably happen off screen. Sure. Um, another thing that I noted is that Rhaenyra says about Jace, he defied me. And Damon says, that is what sons do. Yeah. Yep.

[01:10:38] That's how, that's how you train somebody to practice toxic masculinity in the patriarchy, as you expect sons to defy. Yeah. Um, oh, this is a, this is a cute little one that I, that I caught. Um, when Jasper Wilde attacks Alicent, she picks up something off the table and bonks him on the head with it.

[01:11:04] It's a stone turtle, which is an homage to George R.R. Martin, who raised turtles when he was a kid. And, yes. And his, um, his most famous work before he wrote A Song of Ice and Fire is a novella called Sand Kings. It's a horror novella. It's really, really good. And that was inspired by his turtles. So. Oh, interesting.

[01:11:33] And he, he wears a, wears a fisherman's cap a lot. And he has a little turtle pin on the, on the brim of it. So he's really into turtles. So Alicent picking up a stone turtle to bonk Jasper with was definitely not an accident. That was a little nod to George. I want to R.I.P. to Sir Simon. Because. Yes. Oh, yeah. He was an absolute, like, diva, full of sass. Loved him on screen.

[01:12:03] Loved that he was constantly behind Damon making the faces that all of us were making in the audience often. I felt he deserved a bigger send-off than that. But I'm glad he did not have to suffer long. I'm glad he went before watching his sons be killed. Um, and. Yeah. His whole family. He's just an absolute delight. Yeah. And I love, those were his grandsons?

[01:12:33] Is that correct? That were with him, I think? But I liked that at least one of them got Aemond, you know, in the back. Like, at least they got something in, in that. But I was sad to see him make an exit. I agree. Aemond is just so bloodthirsty. Bloodthirsty, like, he has the biggest dragon in the world. And he could burn that castle down to the ground. But no, he's got to get off.

[01:13:01] Because he wants to have some one-on-one. With, with people that he knows are no competition for him. Or no threat to him. And, you know, he's just his own undoing. Yeah. I did like his eyepatch off, though. Yes. That's pretty cool. Looking. The jewel in his eye. So cool. Yeah. Oh, I had a note about Daemon.

[01:13:30] I should have had this with my Daemon point. Did you notice that people are now calling him my prince instead of my king? And he's not objecting. Nice. I've come a long way. But that is nice. And then my last note is Rhaenyra says when she arrives in King's Landing, do not be afraid. I've come to make things right. Yeah. That's what I want to say when I fly in on my dragon. Yeah.

[01:14:04] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:14:15] I'm going to make more small notes.

[01:14:45] Specifically, huh? Like, this shouldn't be happening yet. Something's come too soon. Something was growing, I thought. Oh, I thought it was a caterpillar on a leaf. Oh. she did have her book open to a butterfly um so that's why i thought and she's always messing with insects she's you know they've been importance of things before with her and so i'm not sure if like too soon with something like that happening if that's

[01:15:11] harkening that winter is coming and is it the actual physical like season of winter that is coming or is it the fact that the north is coming down and not just the winter wolves but jace was just killed and we know craig and stark really bonded with jace and i just wondered if that was her being like huh winter is not supposed to come yet and we know the starks our winter is coming so

[01:15:39] i don't know if i'm reading too much into that or if the internet has infiltrated me into too many spirals of uh conspiracy ideas but but like why would they i don't know nothing helena has said has seemed to be actually meaningless and so i thought that was interesting no i think there was a point to saying that right there we don't know what it is yet but i think so yeah

[01:16:10] and the only other note i had was just what do we think reyna is gonna do a sheep stealer because lady aaron has said get the heck out of here and even though we heard from rhaenyra that she doesn't they know someone was on sheep stealer they don't know who but reyna seems to understand

[01:16:36] that she's going to be in trouble with reyna for what happened um so where is she going to go well what what jane aaron says is i don't want you in my castle i don't want to see you but i can't control where a dragon goes so maybe she will stay and try to protect and win over lady aaron

[01:17:02] eventually i don't know i don't hate that pairing i love the doofiness of sheep stealer i mean obviously i hate that things played out and i did not want jace to be uh dead because of this but something about that scene with the sheep stealer peeking around i don't get why we are thinking that

[01:17:29] bala was responsible for that no jace jace was killed because of they the dragon was harpooned right yes but the reason that jace flew low enough for them to be able to harpoon vermax was that he was going to attack this dragon that had come from nowhere to drive it off because it was attacking

[01:17:54] black ships valerian the valerian fleet right and as he was diving towards he saw it was reyna and he said vermax evade and vermax kind of did a barrel roll underneath sheep stealer and dove down so that's why it's kind of um reyna's fault that he got killed so not directly but through her

[01:18:18] reckless actions he was distracted and trying to get away from sheep stealer and sure was hurt and so like i would want to think she could have gone to dragonstone and said what happened and not been i think so hurt but also i mean uh renero is in her angry grief right now right and so

[01:18:47] it she may be looking for everyone to blame in this and so i could see how reyna could be in quite a bit of trouble with her for that but i don't know this is not this is not book canon no right any other notes that's all i've got that's everything that's all i have

[01:19:16] okay all right let's talk about some news all right uh house of the dragon season three episode two imdb reviews just set a record by paul tassie from forbes early reviews said that house of the

[01:19:40] dragon was at the top of its game in season three after a periodically unsteady run before that so far that has proven to be correct not just among critics but audiences after last night's episode two of season three house of the dragon has now hit a new record on imdb more than one depending on how deep you want to get into it with these first two episodes salt and sea fire and blood and queen's

[01:20:07] landing house of the dragon has had its strongest seasonal opening in three seasons with a 9.2 and 9.4 episode scores respectively that's also the best two episode string of the series overall the 9.4 is tied with season two episode four the red dragon and the gold if you want to go past that

[01:20:31] this is almost a record for the entire game of thrones universe those imdb scores are higher than the first two episodes of the beloved a knight of the seven kingdoms but stacked up against the original show that opening is higher than any season out of all eight of game of thrones other than season four which had a 9 out of 10 and a 9.7 out of 10 for its first two episodes that second episode was the lion

[01:20:58] and the rose joffrey and marjorie's poison interrupted red wedding season four as a whole had a stunning eight out of 10 episodes above nine out of 10 uh which nothing else has come close to repeating well i guess we'll see about season three of house of the dragon here i mean it's just been good

[01:21:20] just so good so good that's that's great it's great ratings all right so next we have another article house of the dragon stars emma darcy and matt smith on what rhaenyra and daemon's big move means for the rest of season three this is by jennifer moss from variety house of the dragon fans have had a week to accept the death of jace targaryen played by harry colette but at the top of this week's episode

[01:21:49] of the game of thrones prequel this tragic passing was a brand new information for his queen and mother rhaenyra played by emma darcy and she understandably did not take it well i think the truth is for rhaenyra it's an insurmountable loss and it's a reality that it is too terrible to reckon with darcy told variety so the first feeling the first instinct is sort of utter denial and to try to push

[01:22:16] back against that dawning terrible reality it was a hard day at work darcy said there was only one scene that they dreaded shooting this season and it was that moment when rhaenyra breaks with reality by trying to engage with jace's corpse darcy said their co-star harry colette was totally beautiful that day on set and helping them prepare for the scene she says we didn't really speak in the morning

[01:22:43] and he gave me a very wide berth and then he was so gorgeous at lunchtime he sort of came up to me and he said hey sorry i wasn't sure i thought you might just want a little bit of space i just thought i'd give you that space but i'm also here if you want anything darcy said and i'm perpetually amazed and very moved by actors and their intuition and their care and their professionalism that's

[01:23:11] so that's very lovely darcy and smith spent the better part of house of the dragon season two filming scenes away from the center of the action in king's landing as their constituency the blacks were no longer in power and ranera and damon were busy trying to shore up their allies elsewhere

[01:23:32] so to return to the palace prepared to shoot their cautious but cutting infiltration of the red keep was a homecoming it was interesting the day was because for us also having not really been back on that set a bit like returning home in a way because it is sort of ours smith said they've got all that

[01:23:57] gunk up on the walls and stuff it looks shite i'd have that straight down get that off the walls all these fucking big religious things so there was a sort of life imitating art and art informing life feeling and all that stuff which was going on which was entertaining for me i like that you know when

[01:24:23] they walked into the throne room it was impossible i think especially because this episode had so much like callbacks to things from game of thrones and earlier seasons it just had me thinking back a lot and when they walked in together to take the throne it reminded me of the very first scene that we had of ranera and damon where he was sitting on the throne and she walked into the third room to to meet

[01:24:51] him and it really as article said it really felt like a homecoming for the two of them which was cool yes yeah awesome great articles thank you renny is that renny yeah yes you're welcome all right we have a little bit of listener feedback alicia stout says when ranera sat on the iron throne i actually

[01:25:18] expected to hear her gasp after watching what that throne did to viserius all those years i don't trust that thing one bit am i the only one who doesn't think aemond is actually dead that just seemed too easy seeing those four dragons flying towards king's landing was insane can you imagine just

[01:25:38] looking up and seeing that i'd simply accept my fate yeah alicia uh i i don't think we're too worried that amon is dead not with alice rivers there to work for magic matt king wrote nice to see auto hightower back if only briefly another dramatic episode it is still quite confusing at times as to

[01:26:05] who is where but having daemon and ranera back in king's landing is good hopefully drives the story along i agree it's good to have them back and i rely on renny to help me understand where everyone is all right jane says hello wendy and veronica i've listened to you all on everything from handmaids to dragons and trust your take explicitly you are hands down my favorite parasocial relationship

[01:26:34] so i'm having trouble getting into house of the dragon season three the show is hitting as distinctly unlovable it's beautifully done of course but watching it feels like a chore plus the dragon deaths never get any easier we're living in grim and uncomfortable 2026 and the last thing i want to do is watch magic getting murdered i need awe and sense of wonder out of my entertainment stories are what

[01:27:03] carry the hope that good triumphs over evil even when all of the supposed reality demonstrates otherwise george rr martin's brutal patriarchal world feels less like an escape and more like salt in the wound women in power what but they're weak and crazy ugh enough already anyhow i love y'all and i'm pretty much just watching the show to hear you parse it on the pod hugs from new orleans jane p.s

[01:27:31] love to you too archmaester runny i i get that and i know um you know like i've had people that you know stopped at some point just because they did read the books so they they don't want to see that on the screen um so i know it's hard i mean i think it's just so

[01:28:00] beautifully done that it's that's the worth for me is seeing it come on screen i mean just think about the battle of the gullet was just fucking amazing you know um so that's worth it to me but i i totally understand everybody has to choose their lines i think what i hold on to and i think maybe this is a

[01:28:25] little uh fanatical of me but i know that this whole story is what leads us to danny and to her being able to bring those dragons to at least save westeros from the night king i know that was in concert with the starks and many other people but i think i can i think when i feel like

[01:28:49] it's all too much and just sadness i remember that it does eventually lead to something else and so i'm still holding on and loving our dragon moments and drogon is still out there and who knows what could happen i mean we brought a lot of characters back from the dead during game of thrones i'm just

[01:29:11] gonna believe danny's out there and i also although george r r martin is very much a man of his generation and he doesn't always get it as right as i would like him to get it sometimes i nonetheless fully believe that he is a feminist and that he is writing these portrayals as a critique

[01:29:35] not an homage he's not describing the world that he wants to see he's describing a world that's based on our own real world history and that is not good that is problematic and he's showing us the ways in which it is problematic so that's why

[01:29:59] i appreciate it but no doubt about it it's a downer yep can be tough all right that is it for us next week we will be covering season three episode three as of yet unnamed episode

[01:30:22] of course you can leave feedback at our podcastica facebook group we post weekly feedback threads or you can leave feedback or voicemails by email at dragons at podcastica.com you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com where you can also find other shows

[01:30:46] that podcastica covers what shows are you guys listening to right now i'm still following the walking dead rewatch same i have a few in the can that i need to catch up on but yeah i'm a couple episodes behind it's been fun it's been fun to go back through yeah i finally finished

[01:31:10] severance yeah yeah i mean season two season three should be coming out sometime soon maybe i'm really excited i can't believe it's already almost july but um the next season of silo should be coming out soon and i think i think we're gonna try to cover it in two parts um jason and amelie and

[01:31:38] i um so if you like post-apocalyptic survival stories um this is based on a series of books that the books are very short and digestible i feel like um and the series has taken i think an interesting take on the books faithful enough that it's been enjoyable as a book reader um so i encourage you

[01:32:02] to check it out um i would say really similar to i'm blanking on it what's it called fallout a similar concept to fallout but less of the like uh comedic sort of entertainment level of fallout and more of a i feel like jason referred to it almost as like a modern film noir at points a lot of like mystery

[01:32:28] and stuff but there's some of that post-apocalyptic uh element to it and they're living in sort of silos that are under the ground um is this season two this will be season three actually okay okay that the actors and act the lead actress uh it's rebecca i've forgotten her last ferguson ferguson

[01:32:55] yeah i mean they've gotten some really good actors on this but she has just been absolutely phenomenal in it and i i think it's a pretty good watch and it's on apple tv yeah i've really liked the adaptation as well i'm glad you're going to cover it yeah it's exciting i'm looking forward to it all right well that is our show thanks for listening everyone until next time i'm rennie

[01:33:25] and i'm still veronica and i'm wendy and i also just wanted to say there will be book talk afterwards

[01:33:36] dracarys i've got a a number of ways that the adaptation differs from the books perfect great um

[01:33:59] so um damon is in harren hall he doesn't go back to dragonstone after um right luke dies and he actually gets notified by luther largent the head of the gold gold cloaks that amond

[01:34:22] has left along with christian cole's army to march to harren hall and so he sends off a bunch of ravens uh letting all his allies know this and he flies directly to king's landing from um harren hall and he doesn't leave any garrison behind at harren hall like he did here yeah people that amond wiped out

[01:34:48] um then rhaenyra flies to king's landing from dragonstone and they they meet at dragonstone and um it's uh q with vermithor ulf with silverwing but also adam and sea smoke and nettles and a sheep stealer so there are six dragons there instead of four i was surprised oh sorry no go

[01:35:13] ahead you were i just was surprised that they didn't grab adam like he wasn't that far i don't know or even like mentioned like where we're gonna leave adam here to guard dragonstone there's just yeah well he was i guess we didn't need to know so yeah yeah um so and far from letting them in allicent oversees the city's defenses she tries to send riders to bring eamon back uh but the gold cloaks stop them

[01:35:41] don't let them leave and she orders or a while to send ravens for reinforcements but the gold cloaks lock him up so uh she doesn't get any backup and go ahead i just i really am not mad at any of these changes like i i've really enjoyed that they made allison's character so much more prominent in all

[01:36:08] these things i loved that they added the complication of rainier and allicent having been so close and how this has played out i just think it's made it so much more interesting but i've seen a lot particularly since this season opened online of people being very frustrated with all these changes yeah um so yeah i was just curious how you felt and seems like you're okay with most of it you know

[01:36:36] this is part of where i think that they've taken george rr martin's basically feminist stance and made it even more clearly more pointedly feminist by the change in allison's character because she's just a stone bitch in the book yeah and she's much older than rainier in the book and they did not grow up together so they don't have that close relationship but making the show be

[01:37:06] about the relationship between allison and rainiera i think gives it a focus that the book doesn't really have because the book is just a history right yeah not not character focused so i'm not i'm i don't have any problem with those those changes it just adds more complexity to the whole like black versus green stances too as you know i talked about today be finally sort of coming around a bit

[01:37:35] and softening on allison like that's more fun and interesting to me than just a clearly i hate this character all the way through right like yes getting to have these dynamic multifaceted characters is yes fun and like you said you just can't get that in these more historical retellings of it yeah one of the changes that i think makes a lot of sense is the change in gwayne hightower allison's

[01:38:03] brother because in the book he's the second in command of the gold cloaks right um and uh he when he calls luther largent a turn cloak he says damon gave us these cloaks and they're gold no matter how you turn them which is a great line and i'm sorry that wasn't in the show yeah but then he kills gwayne so gwayne is no more right but i think the show is making much better

[01:38:29] use of him um by having him out there with with kristen cole and and continuing on so you know uh i think that totally makes sense yeah it's given them a chance to deepen kristen cole's character and give us more like you know the little bits we got last episode it gave us that chance to have

[01:38:55] someone sort of calling out what's going on with kristen cole which is just a complete descent into apathy essentially yeah yeah um jasper wilde attacking allison that's a pure show invention um and i liked what you had to say about it because when i watched it i just didn't really see the

[01:39:19] point of putting it in there but you convinced me that it was useful i mean again i don't love i don't think anyone really i would hope most people do not enjoy depiction of you know sexual violence against anyone and so it wasn't enjoyable to watch and i understand why people questioned it

[01:39:40] but i think for me it was just another underscoring of the violence and you know even in a position of power the absolute lack of power that many times women you know experience um so it uh it took a day's

[01:40:01] fighting to capture king's landing and um damon rhaenyra didn't land um she kept flying and damon signaled her when it was safe to land which is which makes sense because i think it's a pretty good critique of the way they did it in the show that damon and rhaenyra should not have gone in there by themselves it was way too large of a risk yeah i almost brought this up when

[01:40:31] we were in the main part of the episode and i don't want to poo poo on things a lot because i do think it was just such a great episode but i had this same complaint about daenerys and game of thrones that i don't expect these women to be trained warriors but i would like to see that especially when they're the two targaryen women that know they're destined to sit the throne or at least hope they are

[01:40:56] that like a little bit of training of like how to defend yourself at least for 30 seconds until one of your kingsguard can get to you and help you i just hate that they look like they've never held a sword before and find it i guess a little unbelievable especially since there are women warriors throughout

[01:41:20] westeros in in current times like we're seeing um black alley blackwood black alley blackwood um and we know one of the first targaryen women that came over was a warrior like i i just i'm having a hard time believing that they didn't even think to say hey like can you show me how to swing a sword a few times i don't expect them again i think it would be unbelievable if they were warriors they can't

[01:41:48] be everything um but i would have just liked a little bit more competency although i do appreciate that it made auto suffer a bit more yes um so maybe it's okay but that just has bothered me a bit yeah so yes i think it would have made more sense for her to have remained in the air until it was safe

[01:42:12] but okay this was much more dramatic um so then once they've taken the city allicent tries to negotiate uh calling for another great council but rin uh renera says no no you yield or burn yield or burn and allicent surrenders i do appreciate that they didn't have her say that because in the

[01:42:37] book i was just like come on like no one would accept that now that you have them their backs against the wall oh okay let's let everybody vote on it i know how this went last time but sure now let's do it like so i am glad that we didn't have to hear that argument um and otto is there with uh with her with allicent uh he's no longer hand since aegon removed him but he never left king's landing and he

[01:43:05] never got thrown in jail so uh he is there and he does get executed but there's no details about how he's executed he's just the first person who's beheaded so we don't know who chopped his head off but probably was not rinera wasn't he say i feel like there was some note and i didn't have a chance to go back um and reread these these bits from this episode just because the time crunch but

[01:43:34] wasn't he saying something i felt like he was quoted or like he was made still trying to make some sort of argument in the book right up until the end but maybe i'm misremembering i don't think so okay um so rickard thorn uh allicent's sworn protector the one who rats her out uh obviously that doesn't

[01:43:59] happen not conspiring but he's not there because he escaped with helena's daughter jehera and her son mail or who doesn't exist in the show right he sneaks them out um which is the other reason by the way in the book aemon can't really call himself king because aegon has another male heir

[01:44:26] little tiny baby mail or that makes more sense why they changed that in the books i mean in the show so that they could make aemond a little more confident in his claim yes that's another one that i well george r r martin himself is frustrated they changed that right that they got rid of mail or yeah that was he posted on his not a blog uh about the butterfly effect of eliminating things and

[01:44:56] he took that post down later interesting uh but yeah he was pretty mad about that um so then rhaenyra gets on the throne and she stays there all night making everybody come in and swear loyalty to her uh which still could theoretically happen it could still theoretically happen because

[01:45:23] she hasn't even had her crown put on her head that's true that's true um and then in the meantime amond and kristen cole with the army arrive at harrenhall and find it completely undefended and they celebrate their victory and then the next day they hear about what's happened at

[01:45:44] king's landing and that is what pisses amond off so much and makes him kill and burn um he he demands that um uh sir simon fight a trial by combat with him yeah and poor old sir simon picks up a sword and amon obviously kills him um i'm glad we didn't have to watch that like sir simon having being forced

[01:46:13] to pick the sword up oh it would have been bad uh then amon kills every man and boy with strong blood true board or bastard and the only strong bastard left alive is alice rivers who he has already uh taken to bed yeah despite the fact that there were many young pretty women he's got the oedipus

[01:46:41] complex um and he does not get injured nobody stabs him yeah so that will it'd be interesting to see where they go with that in the show because that's not a book thing okay all right so that's all people oh sorry go ahead no go ahead i was just gonna say people are so upset about nettles

[01:47:06] not being part of and and so upset about the storyline and like where are they gonna go with this and like i'm i like it before and i talk too much about oh sorry probably move into this oh you're right you're right i'm so sorry no no no that's okay that's okay all right we're now going to move into this so so far we've only talked about things that have already happened in the show now we're going to move into the spoiler section where um we will talk about upcoming things this is your spoiler

[01:47:36] warning all right that was my dragon giving the warning you know those are monsters you really shouldn't be keeping that as a pet i know all right go back to what you were saying oh okay so

[01:48:01] i know there are a lot of people that are upset i guess nettles has been a bit of a fan favorite um i'm not as deep into the book reader like community and so i'm good with this i like it i know it changes some things but i don't feel like it changes anything that can't still sort of fall a lot

[01:48:27] into place i am imagining especially from what you said when i was talking about how um it seems like like what is she going to do where is reina gonna go because in the books reina is very beloved by the veil yes and so like her sort of being cast out by lady erin i was like well damn that sort of sucks

[01:48:54] she's not going to get that but what you said got me thinking that okay if she hangs around works on trying to like bond better with sheep stealer and figure out how to like work together better because i'm not going to say control because i don't think that's realistic maybe she does provide benefit to the veil and people do start to sing her praises because of that

[01:49:19] um and all i could think when she was standing there sort of at a loss of what to do was go find your fucking dad like go find damon i think he's going i think i think knowing damon's temperament he's going to be like hell yeah my daughter finally claimed a dragon and let's figure out how

[01:49:45] to make this right and i think that can still happen and that can still lead to rhaenyra's ire later on towards reina the same way it was towards nettles except for nettles it was jealousy because she was sort of like you know creeping in on damon possibly right romantically i don't think

[01:50:12] we're going to have a father daughter romance i think we're going to have some softening of damon finally towards reina some acceptance that she's been wanting her whole life from her father and i'd like to see them before the end you know riding their dragons together and doing a few things

[01:50:33] and i'm hoping that's where we're going with this um yeah um so it in the the book reina's in the veil and uh she has a dragon egg that hatches yeah and her dragon is called mourning and obviously it's not old enough to participate in the in the civil war but she does eventually get a dragon um but yeah people

[01:51:00] are very attached to the character of nettles and there there's doubt about who nettles is um she might be damon's illegitimate daughter uh or she might be damon's lover probably not both yeah um but nobody

[01:51:24] knows what her parentage is and there's enough of a shadow of doubt that she might not be a dragon seed that it opens that door of doubt of do you have to have valyrian blood to ride a dragon and that is one

[01:51:45] of the things i think that fandom is really attached to about that character i think that's fair um but i think there's still enough even without that character to me i still waver on that point because i don't think it's known like as we were talking about earlier there's still so many questions about what

[01:52:10] the dragon bond itself really is and we know in old valeria that it was not just targaryens who rode dragons um i don't know for for me it doesn't ruin that sort of notion that there could still be wiggle room in who actually could ride a dragon but i can under i mean i've loved books deeply and

[01:52:37] been frustrated when shows change them so i'm in no way trying to poo poo on on people who are frustrated with this but just personally i like that we're getting something a bit more exciting during this time for reina to do um and i'm i think i'm most excited at the fact that we had in that first season

[01:53:04] in that moment between reina and her mother lana lana yes um you know her sadness at daemon ignoring her and i like that we might get this the potential that we might get this arc of her finally getting that from him before she no longer has him around well and that could work pretty well in plot terms

[01:53:28] also because daemon and reina could bond and you know what daemon and nettles do is fly around the riverlands looking trying to hunt down aemond and vegar and so uh daemon and reina could do that but that could cause a rift between daemon and reina because reina could be unforgiving of reina

[01:53:56] for her part in jace's death yeah and so because of that change at the gullet it allows that that piece of the story to still be able to play out yes i think yes um which is important or i'm sure lots of people think it's important and i think it will make an interesting

[01:54:19] sort of conflict yes i you know we're in the same place with reina i think that we were with with daenerys in like the last second to last season yeah of game of thrones is that book readers don't know that she's gonna go down a really dark path i'm sorry non-book readers don't know that she's

[01:54:48] gonna go down a really dark path daenerys went down a dark path reina is going down a dark path and people who are solidly team black are gonna feel betrayed by that yeah i'm i even knowing it i'm still like i still have this like place in my heart that is resisting it and is like well maybe they'll change it maybe they won't make her so terrible maybe the throne won't cut her even though like

[01:55:16] i feel like that's pretty irrational and we're definitely gonna go down that path well that's the that's one of my spoiler section notes is will the throne cut her um because when it happens in the book is when after the all night of making everybody swear and she comes down uh off the throne uh it's seen that she's bleeding now one of the things that i think is really interesting

[01:55:42] is that they set this up in season one after um her i i it's it after luke is born which whichever baby is born that um allison wants to see the baby and reina walks up the stairs and walks back down and there's a trail of blood because she's bleeding from having given birth yes that that could have

[01:56:11] been foreshadowing for her bleeding when the throne cuts her legs i can't imagine that they will not go there i just think it's too important and i think it i think it creates some doubt because as i was saying like i think one of the things i focus on through all this sadness and mayhem is that this

[01:56:36] leads us to danny yes and like that is true but i think it throws this wrench in the idea of sort of the real almost religious belief of rainera and daemon and viserys in this like prince that was promised prophecy for the throne to reject her um i just think it's interesting and as much as i don't

[01:57:04] want the throne to reject her i think it's sort of an important piece that i of course imagine they would eliminate right but the throne rejected viserys too yeah and he's in that direct line as well he's he's daenerys's ancestor just one generation further back yeah yeah yeah

[01:57:30] well i guess we'll have to wait and see yeah mourn it together um one of the other things that's going on at this same time in the book is that dalton grayjoy the the red kraken oh yeah he attacks the lannisters at casterly rock um and just always like because he

[01:57:53] doesn't actually he's not for anyone but himself right which is just so appropriate and just so funny how these houses are still the same all these generations before but the interesting thing there is that johanna lannister who's jason lannister's widow manages the defense and we get to see a successful

[01:58:18] female leader there she does a very good job of um managing things there but i think the show will probably leave this out because it's just one too many things going on yeah and the only reason that i would be sorry to see it left out is because you do get a model of somebody who is female and is

[01:58:40] successful yeah yeah well you know who has been a successful female and i think my money's on being one of the last last ones still successfully standing is miss a miss a miss a miss a but she just she continues to play a role in the book correct yes she does sort of make her way into but it's just

[01:59:08] not this early on like she wasn't a dragonstone she's in king's landing right okay yeah i thought so yeah and my money's on her man she's wooed multiple targaryen royals yes um and she seems like a pretty decent person i mean i think she'll double cross people but i think she reminds me of

[01:59:36] um master of whispers from game of thrones with the bald head oh um uh varies varies yeah she reminds me of him someone who's actually for the people and and really that's their guiding principle it's not a peter baelish where it's all selfish it's a it's a i care about the small folk and the larger realm

[02:00:05] and i'll use these royals as needed although i do think she likes rhaenyra but i don't know if she's going to continue to like rhaenyra i don't know if any of us are going to yeah yes so um oh speaking of lannisters do you think tylen's dead do you drown when shirak alohar pushed him off the ship i wondered

[02:00:33] because anytime they don't show me the person dying yeah i just question it but i would have expected him to like i'm just trying to think when he would pop back up that it would be useful to the story so maybe he really is dead but i did i was talking to my wife that um he probably has fathered a few children for lohar's many many wives and so there probably are true probably the this the lannister

[02:01:03] seed is probably strong in what pentos is that where her yeah i'll be yeah but i mean there are like there are legitimate let lannister children at cast really rock but um uh well and if he had his book story he wouldn't be able to father any more children anyway because um he along with the you know the rest

[02:01:26] of the members of the green council gets thrown into the cells and tortured to because he sent the he's the master of coin and he sent the crown's fortune away and so they torture him trying to find out where it is and you know he ends up losing both eyes and his nose and i think all his teeth and

[02:01:49] but he survives and after agon comes back he gets out of the black cells so does orwile orwile's prisoner the whole time as well he's not a secret black sympathizer at all he's with the greens um and uh uh and he ty thailand comes back you know horribly brutalized um but then serves again

[02:02:18] as master of coin so if you drown none of that will happen but i don't know how far they're going to take the story it just doesn't seem necessary they could end with rhaenyra's death i hope they don't i would rather they ended with agon's death because i don't want to end with agon triumphant

[02:02:37] i've been trying to figure out where i mean we're i would say mid next season i don't know i don't know yeah i don't know i can't think they'll keep damon and aemon is live alive as long as they possibly can yeah i think that would be one of the i guess i would guess maybe that's mid

[02:03:06] season four yeah and then rhaenyra is the end maybe the second to the last episode is that too and well no that would make sense the second to the last episode is usually the big yeah traditionally in game of thrones that was the big episode and then the last episode was the the cleanup so they could do that you could you could just do agon's whole reign in a single

[02:03:36] episode and kill him off so yeah oh speaking of rhaenyra's death did you catch that jasper wilde says to rhaenyra you will hang for this if you do not burn i did i did and my stomach sank yes oh yeah yeah there's another um fan favorite character who they're clearly eliminating because of the law of

[02:04:04] conservation of characters and that's bloody ben blackwood um who is the 11 year old war hero and i think that oscar tully is gonna get his action instead because they've got one extremely young um person doing stuff and so i think it'll all just be oscar tully you know this the these

[02:04:28] the casting directors i guess are just knocking it out of the park in game of thrones universe in casting young young actor actresses it's just been i can't believe the talent yeah that has come out of game of thrones night of the seven kingdoms and house of the dragon it's just amazing yes mm-hmm so yeah i think you're probably right with oscar

[02:04:57] so that's all that i had for this same episode this spoiler section all right see everybody next

[02:05:09] week see you next week from artificial intelligence to the gig economy to global volatility the economy is changing at a dizzying pace enter the managing the future of work podcast the chart topping and

[02:05:38] critically acclaimed podcast from harvard business school hosted by me bill kerr and by managing the future of work project co-chair joe fuller this show explores technology trends demographic changes the rise of the care economy and many other forces transforming the landscape of work we'll highlight the insights of business leaders technologists and experts like business roundtables kristin silberg

[02:06:04] on corporate workforce strategy and khan academy founder sal khan on ai education and the future of work with more than two and a half million downloads and close to 300 episodes there is something for everyone follow hbs managing the future of work on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you're listening

[02:06:24] now have you ever wondered why reese witherspoon founded hello sunshine or where kevin o'leary got his start or even how alex earl became the most accessible founder to someone who may not even consider this space enter the founder mindset the new podcast from harvard business school foundry hosted by me

[02:06:49] reza sachu as a leading educator in entrepreneurship i've built multiple high profile companies and mentored thousands of students and founders through the realities of starting and scaling ventures and with the founder mindset i'm sharing those lessons with you by sitting down with world-class entrepreneurs including witherspoon o'leary and earl plus tim ferris and many more to break down exactly how they

[02:07:13] commit decide and build for impact these aren't surface level interviews each episode i challenge my guests to revisit their toughest moments their boldest decisions and the mindset that carried them through follow the founder mindset wherever you get your podcasts