House of the Dragon S3E3 "Rhaenyra Triumphant"

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[00:00:52] Hey everybody, I'm Wendy. And I'm Daeron Targaryen. No wait, I'm Rennie. I don't believe you. What color is your hair? And I'm Jess Veronica. Not Jess. And this is Dragon Cast, a podcast dedicated to House of the Dragon. This week we're discussing Season 3, Episode 3 of House of the Dragon, Rhaenyra Triumphant.

[00:01:23] Alright. Didn't feel very triumphant of an episode. So, one of the things that I was hearing last week is people were saying, book snobs were saying, that last week's episode, which was called Queen's Landing, should have been called Rhaenyra Triumphant because that's the name of the chapter in the book. So, I was very glad to see that this episode was called Rhaenyra Triumphant.

[00:01:52] If I had to label it, it would be like, worst week ever. Yeah. I was like, this is just like a sucky work week. Yeah. Yeah. Sucky personal week. Yeah. What did you guys think overall? Like, did you like it? Hate it? I liked it.

[00:02:15] I mean, it didn't advance the goalposts too much, but definitely we got to see, we got to see a lot of the small folk. We got to see a lot of the inner workings of the castle. I thought that was pretty cool. As, as Misaria said, it's both larger and smaller.

[00:02:42] That made me think, oh, the Red Keep is a TARDIS. So, I liked it. I didn't love it. I loved episode one. I loved episode two. I liked this episode. And on IMDB, the first two episodes got ratings over nine. This one has an 8.5. And that, that works for me. I agree.

[00:03:10] I didn't hate it, but it didn't have me thrilled and as excited. I do think it's filling what appear to be some important concepts for things to come, which I'm excited about those things. So, I'm trying to find the things I liked in the episode, but it wasn't my favorite. Wendy, as a non-book reader, how did you like it?

[00:03:38] I was waiting for shoes to drop a lot of the episode and I knew they had talked about having a conceptual episode. So, several times towards the beginning of the episode, I thought she's just going to wake up and have just gotten there, you know? So, I thought that, um, definitely Darren threw me off because I remembered you saying that he had, he was Allison's only child that had brown hair.

[00:04:08] And so, at first I was like, well, maybe the show just switched it up. But then I was like, okay, that makes a lot of sense. What did you think? Did you know immediately that was an imposter? No, because, um, in the book, um, Darren is fair. Um, well, so my first point is about him. So, shall I just go to that? Yeah.

[00:04:37] Okay, I'm calling him Faron for fake Darren because in the, in the main book series, there's a character who's claiming to be a gone. And it hasn't been revealed yet that he isn't really who he says he is, but fans really expect that he will be. So people refer to him as Fagon for fake a gone. So I'm calling this Darren fair on fake Darren.

[00:05:03] Um, as soon as he walked forward, I thought immediately that there was some sort of deception going on. But I went off on a way tangent that turned out not to be true. I thought he was a girl masquerading as a boy that that young actor really looked like a girl to me in that hair.

[00:05:26] And so I thought, okay, the reason that this child was sent to foster in old town was to help with the deception of passing this girl child off as a boy. And I thought that was why the child refused to speak. And I put, I spun out a whole plot line based on that, including having the fake Darren take over something that a gone does in the book.

[00:05:52] Um, but it turns out that that wasn't the nature of the deception. Um, and I don't, I don't buy the hair color trick. Dark haired Targaryens are a big deal. We saw Baelor Brakespear in A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. His mother was Dornish and he had dark hair and that caused some people not to trust him. Um, we know Jon Snow from the main show.

[00:06:22] Nobody ever suspects that he could be a Targaryen because he has dark hair. Um, we have Rhaenyra's boys who in, in the book, um, have dark hair. Um, but the Valerian family isn't black in the books. So they just have dark hair. But in the show, Rhaenyra's boys have skin that's too light and hair that's too dark because Corlys and Alan too, um, have dark skin, but.

[00:06:53] Targaryen hair. Um, and, uh, so if Daron has auburn hair like his mother, that's something that would be known, even though he's being fostered at Old Town. Old Town is not as far away as Asshai. And people do travel back and forth between King's Landing and Old Town. And the kid is not in hiding. He's Ormond Squire.

[00:07:17] And I still think that the auburn haired boy that we saw acting like he was Ormond Squire in the first episode is... ...Neron. Um, okay. ...so, uh, in Fire and Blood, Jace and Daron are born at almost the same time. And the line is this.

[00:07:44] Daron, who's coloring, unlike that of Jace, testified to his dragon blood... ...dot, dot, dot. Um, and Jace and Daron, in fact, were milk brothers. They shared a wet nurse. Um, so that implies that in the book, Daron has Targaryen, typical Targaryen coloring, whereas Jace does not.

[00:08:10] Um, and I thought the show was just making him look more like his mother, which is, you know, perfectly possible. Or maybe it's a double deception and Ormond dyed the real Damon's hair darker and bleached the fake Daron's hair lighter. I don't know. It's all a little bit wacky because of the frickin' dragon, boys and girls and others. Right? Yes.

[00:08:40] You know? Um... Yes. The dragon wouldn't just do what... ...what other people wanted him to do. That was my other question. That's right. Would... Would they have left? No! Damon have left the dragon? Like, that made no sense to me. It's such a stupid thing to do, especially since Damon knows that riderless dragons can be claimed by other people. And Damon wants to kill Daron.

[00:09:08] So basically what he wants to do is leave this weapon of mass destruction that if Daron is killed could be taken over by somebody else. It's stupid. Yeah. Where is the dragon now? It's with Ormond's army still. They just walked off and left it. Right. Why would Damon do that? Right. Yeah, that's silly. I was thinking they had took the dragon with them because I just assumed. Nope. Right?

[00:09:37] You don't care about the kid. I mean, I guess you do. He's a... He's one of... ...Viserys' sons. So you do care about the kid, but the dragon too. Yeah. I mean... Maybe Damon didn't think little dragon was such a threat. I don't know. That's a pretty big little dragon. I know. Just Damon would not have.

[00:10:03] I mean, you think he's gonna resist a chance to bring another dragon under their control? Like that's just... That's not Damon. Yeah. Yeah. See, I thought they did bring the dragon. No. So then my question was, how did they get the dragon to go with the fake Daron? Which of course... We know they didn't bring the dragon because at the end, when the dragon keeper comes to tell Rhaenyra that they've entered Tumbleton, he says the dragon's with them.

[00:10:33] At Tumbleton. Yeah. I'm gonna need some... Yeah. It was a packed episode of Little Tudbits like that. Yes. Just so many. So many things. Yeah. In the show, the succession goes like this. Yes. If you, you know, if you're on the green side, Aegon is currently king. Aemond is his first heir. Daron is his second heir. Right.

[00:11:01] And then the throne would pass to Rhaenyra's sons, not to Rhaenyra, because they're the only male descendants of Viserys. Which starts with Joffrey right now. Joffrey, Aegon, Viserys. Viserys. Little Aegon, little Viserys. Yeah. And then you're right out of airs. If you go through all of them, there are no more male Targaryens alive. Well, we are going through them quickly. Daemon is still alive. Oh, Daemon, right. Oh, my God.

[00:11:30] How did I forget Daemon? Oh, right. Yes. Still, he would be... He would come after Viserys' descendants. So he would be after little Viserys. So, yeah, he could murder his own sons and become king. Yeah. And then conquer the world. Yes. We'll have 10 seasons of that, Veronica. I'd watch that show. I would definitely.

[00:12:00] So many times, Rhaenyra should have just run away with people who suggested it to her and lived a much more peaceful life. Mm-hmm. That was it for my point about fake Daeron. Daeron. Want to go next, Veronica? Yeah. I had just like a small point about this being the... What was the word? A conceptual episode. Conceptual episode.

[00:12:28] And I was expecting definitely something more significant or unique, different. I really thought it was going to be Amon having a bunch of hallucinations in Harrenhal. Mm-hmm. And we didn't see him at all. Right.

[00:12:46] On first watch, the thing that like hit me the hardest was the music and how they had deep strings sort of almost making like a tick-tock tick-tock sound and then occasionally like a large chime sound. So it really felt like you're under the pressure to do a lot of things very quickly, which I think tied in really well with what Rhaenyra was feeling.

[00:13:10] Um, and then on second watch, I also noticed more acutely something else that was playing into that almost like spinning feeling of like constant problems hitting Rhaenyra was that a lot of the times the camera angle was like tilted slightly and it made you feel more like you were in a spin. Yeah.

[00:13:35] So, um, and then I also noticed an additional background sound that to me sounded like an increasing chitter of the rats. Um, and so, I mean, again, not quite what I was hoping for, but still felt interesting and drove home sort of the themes I think they were trying to hit. But something about it felt very much like it could have played out on the stage quite well.

[00:14:02] Something about the revolving conversations like I could just imagine swapping out the actors as Rhaenyra turns in a circle and has these different conversations. And I thought that was interesting. But I thought that's all I kind of had on that. I'm curious how you guys felt about it as a conceptual. So. I'll just play off that. It was like if anxiety had music and sound to it, you know, it was like.

[00:14:34] It never let you off the hook. Yeah, it never released you from the tension. It just kept ramping up and ramping up. And I think we're supposed to kind of be living inside Rhaenyra's mind at this time, which is probably not a good place to be. Yeah.

[00:15:00] And I thought it was impressive that Rhaenyra kept coming back to trying to do the right thing. And she called up the name of her father multiple times over the episode. What would her father have done that she is making good on the promises that she made her father?

[00:15:26] That she would make good on the faith that her father had in her. But then. Interspersed with those was all the things trying to tear that good. Intentions down. And she was pretty honest in that. She said. What she was feeling was rage.

[00:15:50] And I think it for somebody who was only feeling rage, she was trying really hard not to let that take over. And I think that was part of the agitation and anxiety as well. Yeah, I think that's really accurate. The soundtrack of anxiety definitely had me feeling her anxiety physically. Mm hmm.

[00:16:20] And I agree with all that. And. My next point picks right up on that. And it's about it being a conceptual episode in the the House that Dragons built, the behind the scenes video and the official podcast.

[00:16:43] Claire Kilner, the director and Sarah Hess, the writer, talk about how they wanted to tell the first days of Rhaenyra's reign from her point of view. And Sarah has cited the West Wing as an influence with all those walk and talk scenes. Mm hmm. And Ryan Condal cited the movie Conclave as an influence. Mm hmm. But I think they're they're very wrong.

[00:17:11] They're very mistaken about what they actually made, because I think they did not make a political drama. They made a horror movie. Um, it did have that feeling of dread. Yes. Dread. And Rhaenyra's first. So you get the opening, the cold open. I think maybe this is the first time the show ever had a cold open before the credits with Damon and Ormond.

[00:17:40] And then everything else is with Rhaenyra in the Red Keep. And so the first line of Rhaenyra's after the credits is the air is thick with ghosts. Yeah. And the Red Keep is very much presented as a haunted house, most obviously when Rhaenyra sees Jace's ghost walking down the hallway. Um, the place is overrun with rats like a house of horror.

[00:18:09] Um, and, uh, as, as you were talking about Veronica, um, the music, that musical stinger that we keep hearing, it's really a horror element. It's like the soundtrack of a horror movie. All of the music, as you said, is designed to set the viewer on edge and create foreboding. Um, pension. Yeah. Yes.

[00:18:35] And what Claire Kilner says about that musical stinger is that it's the sound of a dragon calling her from the future. Dang. That's profound. Um, and in that first scene, Rhaenyra says the air is thick with ghosts.

[00:18:55] And although she talks about good memories of seeing verse Viserys in his bedchamber there, um, while she's saying the good memories, there's a high whining sound that plays. And then there's that ominous bell sound and suddenly we're somewhere else. Um, which is very disorienting, very much in the manner of, of a horror movie.

[00:19:21] And, uh, I didn't catch this the first time, but the second time I listened to it with my. Yeah. And, um, when, um, Corlys is asking Rhaenyra at that dinner with them and Adam and Alan to legitimize Adam and Alan, there's a heartbeat on the soundtrack. Wow. Just like in a horror movie. And, you know, that's almost cause cause cause it's hard to hear unless you're listening with headphones. It's almost subliminal. And then the rat dinner.

[00:19:51] What is that? But not a horror movie thing. And even the switcheroo plot with fake Darren, it fits that horror movie motif. This is not who you think it is. And so it's just seems very strange to me that they talked about making a political drama like the West Wing, but they put in all these horror elements.

[00:20:17] And I just think it was a little at odds with itself because it didn't know whether it wanted to be funny and be the West Wing. Rhaenyra actually cracked some jokes or if it wanted to be this haunted house horror movie. And either way, it just seemed out of the tone of House of the Dragon. Mm hmm.

[00:20:38] I also thought Rhaenyra hasn't been at King's Landing for a long time other than the brief visit that they had right before Viserys died. And during that visit, she had said how changed King's Landing was. It was more stark, bare. They had the invasion of the religious symbols. And.

[00:21:07] I think that was part of it. She was thinking about the warmer place that she grew up in. Mm hmm. And she's left with this cold, colder place. And it just has to be odd for her. To be standing in her father's bed chambers. Mm hmm. And now it's hers. Mm hmm. To be up on that throne. Which she's been.

[00:21:34] You know, that throne has been such a point of contention in her entire life. And now she's on it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's. That's it for my observations about what genre is this episode anyway? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Back to you, Veronica. Okay.

[00:22:04] So let's see. I think. My notes are not perfectly organized to hit on this point. But I think I just wanted to mention because we've been talking about the theme of like. The patriarchy and being a female leader, like several places in this episode where I think they underlined that. Um. And I think one point where it was just. Poignantly, like explicitly said.

[00:22:33] Where Alison says, well, you blame me only for what men have done. Mm hmm. And like. Okay. But not only men who did that Alison. I think I had empathy for her last week, but I was a little frustrated with her a few times this week where I felt like. She's reaping a lot of what she helped. So. So. But I did think that that in that moment. Rhaenyra does often go after Alison as like the sole perpetrator.

[00:23:03] And even if Alison have not played a role in setting her sons on the throne, there's no question in my mind that Otto and the rest of the small council were going to do that regardless. Um. Um. But I think. Kind of getting away from Alison and going back to Rhaenyra and sort of this. Position of leadership that she's in.

[00:23:28] I think for any leader, there's sort of going to be moments of like damned if you do damned if you don't. But I think for Rhaenyra being the first female sitting the iron throne, there's this added layer of wanting to show strength and softness, empathy.

[00:23:51] And like she has all these people giving her different bits of advice and like Damon's point of view is to kill Darren. But really, I mean, that's a lose lose situation for her because. Sort of setting aside the fact that it didn't end up being Darren at all. And if she'd killed him, she would have basically killed a very young boy for no reason.

[00:24:17] Um, if she if it was the real Darren and she kills him and she's killed her young brother, which everyone is going to attack her for. But if she just keeps him alive, everyone then is going to call her weak. And I think it's just I mean, we see that I think women are often hit more harshly when they're in positions of leadership.

[00:24:42] Um, that they're sort of like either weak or terrible and there's no in between of those two things. Um, and then sorry, I'm trying to find my notes. I felt like there was one more really good example. Oh, that she gets her period in the middle of all of this. And if this as if it's not bad enough, right?

[00:25:07] Um, just this sort of poignant reminder that she is a woman like in this moment where she's literally talking about she's getting dressed and she's trying to portray strength. And deciding not to wear additional, you know, jewelry and talking about whether we're the sword or not. And they decide to put a chain on her. And in that moment, she realizes she's bleeding and it's like, oh, you think you're strong, but don't forget you're a woman.

[00:25:34] Like even nature is sort of putting that into her mind. And I've been watching her sit the Iron Throne this whole time waiting for her to get cut the way her father was because the way they keep zooming in on her hands there. And I thought watching this episode that the Iron Throne is still making her bleed, just not outwardly right.

[00:26:01] Like the stress of all that probably, you know, led to her period happening right in that moment anyways. And so I thought that was interesting that I'd been watching for it one way. But right after that moment, they show her gripping the throne. And I thought, well, it's getting her just internally, not externally, like it did with Saris.

[00:26:25] It's so interesting what they're doing with blood and her and the throne, because in the last episode, she walked through Otto's blood to get to the throne. So she left bloody footprints. This time we know that she's bleeding while she's sitting on the throne. I actually expected her to get up and walk down from the throne and have blood through her dress. I sort of did too.

[00:26:48] Yeah, because they are really teasing us with that idea of blood and the throne. And we remember the horrors that happened to Viserys because of his throne cuts. So, yeah, that's interesting. I have a point on the continued love triangle going on between Daemon, Myceria, and Rhaenyra.

[00:27:14] And I found this to be a lighter part of the episode. I just couldn't get enough of them and also the side dagger looks that Daemon and Myceria launch at each other behind Rhaenyra's back. I thought that was pretty amusing. And that was a funny part of the episode. Myceria is giving her two cents.

[00:27:41] And she really wants to be helpful to Rhaenyra and secure her position at Rhaenyra's side. She wants to be valuable. She wants to be worthy. And she's talking and Daemon's like, no one asked you. And then she and then Rhaenyra clarifies that she is the mistress of whispers. And that just look between Daemon and Myceria is so great. Myceria is very smug.

[00:28:08] And yet, even though you can see they're almost vying for Rhaenyra's attention and Rhaenyra's valuing each of their opinions and advice. Even with that, it feels lighter. Like, Daemon feels like he's handling all of this much better than he had in the past.

[00:28:36] And he's more secure, I guess, so that he doesn't feel threatened enough to go on the offense with Myceria. But I've just kind of been loving that dynamic. I thought it was great. Yes, and when Rhaenyra couldn't sleep in Viserys's bed, she went to Daemon's bed. And he welcomed her in. I was quite taken by that turn of events.

[00:29:06] Yeah, same. Except he did still look cuddly. They did. I think he still showed himself a little bit at the end, though, when he suggested that they started dreaming about conquering the world. I feel like he was very not the old Daemon until that moment. Yes. You know, really hit that home that he's still in there.

[00:29:30] Like, he basically advises death and conquest to her over worrying about the problems of today. He says, I style us as gods as we were always meant to be. Yes. Talking about conquering Dorne. And I was kind of like, maybe you should work on the rats first and then work your way up. He says, Aegon the Conqueror had three dragons. You have six. We could conquer everything.

[00:29:58] In my notes, I had Daemon is the devil tempting Rhaenyra to become a god. Yeah. He also mentions a city where men have wings. Yeah. And that was a fun little call out to the world of ice and fire, which is the concordance to a song of ice and fire.

[00:30:22] And the city where men have wings is in the far, far east in the mountains of the Mourne. And it's on the Hidden Lake, the shore of the Hidden Lake. That city doesn't have a name. But across the lake is the city of Carcosa, which is one of George R.R. Martin's many homages to, oh my gosh, what's his name?

[00:30:52] Lovecraft, H.P. Lovecraft. Oh, yeah. That horrible, racist, early 20th century horror writer. Yeah. That's my editorial comment, the horrible racist part. Yeah. I have a lot of little notes, but it's your turn, Rani. Yes, I have one last point that's a fairly short one, which is the last sequence.

[00:31:20] They have done so much in this show with final shots of episodes and final shots of Emma Darcy's face. I would like to just award Emma Darcy and Matt Smith Emmys right now. Right? Both of them. They're just fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. So in that end sequence, when the Dragon Keeper brings the news of the capture of the city of Tumbleton,

[00:31:47] Rhaenyra goes off on a little rant and she says of Lord Ormond, he cannot win. And the moment she says he cannot win, the fire blazes up behind her as they burn. They set the torches to the Hightower banners and all the Hightower gear that is being taken out of the Red Keep and being burned. And I think this is a very clear signal that the realm will burn. Yeah.

[00:32:15] This is a reference to Dragon War, which is the fantasy medieval equivalent of nuclear war, right? Yep. And then the Dragon Keeper points out to her that if Rhaenyra burns Tumbleton, she'll be burning innocent civilians who are on her side. So that really points to the horrors of the war still to come, I think.

[00:32:43] And we know there's plenty of war to come because there's a season and a half left to go. It's not all going to be peace, love, and understanding. So I think we're going to see the real horrors of a magical war fought with magical beasts that the Faith of the Seven doesn't approve of. And then the last shot, Rhaenyra's face.

[00:33:09] I would love to put together a montage of just episodes that have ended with Rhaenyra's face. Yes. Yeah. She did a great job. I mean, this was... It was all Rhaenyra all day, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It really was amazing. Yeah. That was my point. I thought it might be helpful just to recap, like, all of the things that are going wrong for Rhaenyra this episode. Yeah. Okay.

[00:33:38] And one thing I was thinking of, because one of the themes of this episode with her discussions with Alyson has been, like, you have to lose yourself to be a ruler. You're going to have to do atrocious things. And so it feels like they're building us up to Rhaenyra being faced with atrocious decisions, right?

[00:33:54] And so it was sort of inescapable for me to reflect on this episode being what was possibly missing from what Daenerys was undergoing in the final season of Game of Thrones.

[00:34:09] And so even though this wasn't, like, my most favorite episode, I think I did appreciate that they were building a case for where our character really is and the amount of stressors that Rhaenyra is under as she's trying to take the throne. So she took Daron captive. It turned out not to be Daron, and she was completely ineffective at trying to question the captive and figure all this out.

[00:34:39] She is the crown is completely broken. They don't know where the money is and are completely broke, not broken. They don't have any money. They don't know where it's been stashed. They don't have any good way of bringing more money in. There's no food. There's very few ships. I think that was mentioned in, like, sort of the background of something Lord Corlys was saying. One thing that really underlined that this is a horror episode to me was the fact that there were about to be no candles.

[00:35:09] Even as an adult, I am really not keen on being in the dark. And the idea of being in that big castle with no candles sounds really terrifying. And lots of rats. Got into it. Yes. Yeah. There are rats everywhere. There are pirates still from the Triarchy ransacking things. It ended on the Greens making the big move into Tumbleton. Amond is still at large. Aegon is still at large.

[00:35:38] She has dismissed her previous small council. She has two people advising her that are at constant odds. Lord Corlys, even earlier in the episode, had pretty much checked out and by the end was opposing her. The Faith doesn't appear to be in favor of her. She's still unsure on who she is, as Damon clearly calls out. But we see throughout the episode her waffling back and forth.

[00:36:06] She says she feels no grief, but the rage she is feeling is a form of grief that she is still really deeply in. And she is very aware of how all these problems are impacting the small folk. And yet she has no even solutions to be able to do it. Yeah. So I think that's sort of the recap of all the things that they hit this episode that are going wrong for her.

[00:36:34] Also, they're looking for Sheepstealer and who's writing Sheepstealer and they don't know. Mm-hmm. How do they know Sheepstealer's name? Because Sheepstealer's a wild dragon that lived on Dragonstone for most of his life. Okay. So he's a known. That's why he's called Sheepstealer. They just didn't know where he was. Well, he's in the Vale now. Right. I don't think they knew he was holed up there, right? At least Reyna didn't seem to be aware. Right.

[00:37:04] And so the implication is that he left Dragonstone fairly recently. But he was born on Dragonstone and never claimed and just became a wild dragon and lived on Dragonstone. And people saw him. People would recognize him. Now, Damon is headed to the Vale? Yes. To find Sheepstealer? So I'm guessing he may.

[00:37:33] No, he's headed to the Vale to get money out of Jane Eyre. That's what it is, money. But surely he's going to encounter Sheepstealer. Absolutely. And this will be the deciding factor because this is his daughter. Yes. And I think that this will cause a split between Damon and Rhaenyra.

[00:37:49] I just kind of, I mean, I know that it was unfortunate what happened, but I just don't see that as, it wasn't purposeful. I mean, stupid maybe, but I don't know.

[00:38:07] Yeah, but, you know, suppose that you're driving a car and you drop your phone and you lean over to pick it up and you veer into a crowd of people on the sidewalk and mow them down. It's not purposeful. It's not intentional, but you're still going to jail. But if it's your niece and they do it and your child dies. And it's dragons.

[00:38:31] Like, there's going to be anger, but I feel like there's going to be some forgiveness because it's, I guess, teenagers with a joke. I'm going to find out. Yeah. I don't like it. Because basically her stepdaughter is responsible, not intentionally, but responsible for her son's death. And look at the cold shoulder she gave Bela. Yeah. And Bela did nothing wrong.

[00:38:59] Well, except go with Jace. Yeah. I did have a point on that. It seems like the oaths that some of these highborns take, they do not really take them very seriously. That's another problem I had with that scene. Yeah. We have Ormond just bending the knee and swearing lifelong fealty to Rhaenyra and then was like, psych.

[00:39:29] We have Corlys, who he asks Rhaenyra if she'll do this thing. And then when she says no, he absolutely does the things that his brother got killed for. I was wishing that Rhaenyra was still wearing Jace's sword and that she'd just whip it out and cut his head off. It's like, where's Dark Sister? Where's Dark Sister when you need it? She did nothing. I know.

[00:39:56] She did nothing, which was terrible. I had a hard time. I don't know. I know Lord Corlys is proud, but I had a hard time believing that he wouldn't have understood or accepted why she couldn't do it right now. She's his hand. I mean, he's her hand, right? He's supposed to be on her side. I know he's the queen. But yeah.

[00:40:26] No, I didn't like that at all. No. Like he just took that hand. Not that long ago. He just fought in that huge battle. Yeah. And then he's just going to throw all that away because she said no. And she didn't even say no for all time. She says not now. Right. Right. Yeah, I didn't like that.

[00:40:49] And all the noble people, you know, that bent the knee to Aegon six months ago and now they're just flip-flopping to whoever's feeding them a banquet, I guess. Yeah. I thought that was a little, certainly not the Starks. Yeah. That we're used to. No. Yeah.

[00:41:16] Even Jamie was more honorable than that. They make you swear and swear. That's right. What else? Other points? I don't have another full point. I just have some notes. Same. I think. Yeah. So in that scene between Damon and Ormond, I love the way Damon says peace like it's a curse word.

[00:41:47] And Ormond calls him the rogue prince, which is another great shout out because that's the title of the novelette that was published in the anthology Rogues. And it eventually became part of Fire and Blood. The first two pieces of the Dance of the Dragons that were published were the rogue prince, a novelette, and the princess and the queen, another novelette. And then those got folded into Fire and Blood. So that was cool.

[00:42:16] And although Ormond was taking an oath that he didn't intend to follow, he pulls vigilance out of its scabbard. And vigilance is a Valyrian steel sword. So I get a thrill every time I see a Valyrian steel sword. And this goes back to your point about the patriarchy, Veronica.

[00:42:40] Because one of the things that Alicent says to Rhaenyra is, your father lived in a world of his own construction. You and I never set foot there. Yeah. And of course, Viserys was able to live in a world of his own construction because he was a man and no one questioned his legitimacy to be king.

[00:43:00] I thought that was really interesting that there was all that reflection of Rhaenyra back on wanting to make her father proud and honor his legacy. And she's doing this because he named her. But then multiple times the people around her sort of corrected the rose-colored glasses she was wearing of the memory of her father. Like at the moment you just mentioned with Alicent.

[00:43:25] But then also Damon there at the end sort of being like, look, I loved my brother. I've made my peace with his decisions. And like he renounced his dragon and he was not the strong leader that he needed to be basically, I think is what he was saying. And so it was interesting to see her sort of idea of her father challenged a few different times. Yes. Yeah. Those around her.

[00:43:55] One of the things that Emma Darcy said in the House the Dragons Built was that Rhaenyra has a growing obsession with formalized legitimacy. Yeah. Yeah. And that makes sense given the position that she occupies. But I also think it's something that's gonna come back and bite her. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:17] I mean, it's almost like you're trying too hard to prove it's that you're supposed to rule instead of just realizing like you've taken it, you're ruling. Like you don't need all these. Right. You know, you need to have confidence in that instead of needing all these validations, which counterintuitively end up making her appear weaker, I think. Yes, I agree. Okay.

[00:44:40] Um, one of the things that she says to the people who are at the rat supper, she says, I come before you as a conciliator. Yeah. And of course, that has to be an echo of Jaehaerys the conciliator, who was the longest ruling Targaryen king and had the most peaceful reign. But of course, she's not conciliating them at all. She's feeding them rats.

[00:45:10] That's not conciliatory. So I think that's another, you know, just subtle little nod that she's not gonna rule over peace. Mm-mm. I thought it was interesting that they introduced us to Sir Torrin Manderly out of that group of people. They're the only, that's the only lord they really like introduced.

[00:45:36] And that actor, um, I'm blanking on his name now. He was in The Walking Dead. He was in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. Right. Um, so he's a known actor and so I'm assuming we're going to get more of Sir Manderly.

[00:45:53] Um, but it was just such, I don't know, it sort of, again, this episode just had a lot of like jagged edges maybe is the description for me of just like, this doesn't feel rounded out, but there's gotta be a reason that they're bringing this up to us.

[00:46:12] Um, and my final note is just a nitpick that I've had for a long time, but it really, it really stood out to me in that opening sequence, which is that they just have too many scenes of horses too close to dragons. Horses would be terrified of dragons. And when Ormond rides up on his horse, that horse is calm as can be riding right towards three big dragons parked on the other side of the field.

[00:46:40] And I, I wish they would just, yeah, not, not have the horses be so close to the dragons. Especially an army that you, like, if you had an army that was used to marching with dragons, but the high tower army is not. And maybe even you could justify that they've, you know, been around to Sarion a little while now and maybe they're like more accustomed to that.

[00:47:07] But like you said, these are three much larger unfamiliar dragons. Like it just doesn't feel believable. Yeah. So one thing that, you know, we talked about her different advisors, like the two opposing each other and then Corlys like basically checked out and not helping the rest she's written off.

[00:47:30] But she has a, essentially a secret advisor in Alicent because she, even though like Mysteria sort of calls her out and is like, should you trust her? And Rhaenyra is like, you know, I know there's many rats among us and stuff, but she still trusts her. Like she does everything Alicent says. She even tries to play off to the faith that Aegon is dead.

[00:47:55] And, um, and I, I continue to question if she's smart or stupid to be trusting Alicent because Alicent continues to sort of be true to what she's telling her. Even down to like, she could have composed herself and tried to play the boy off as Darren, right? Like she could have quickly probably done that, but she didn't. She gave it away.

[00:48:25] Yeah. And admitted openly. She could have done that double take and then said, oh, Darren, how you've grown. I wouldn't have recognized you, my son. Yeah. I mean, she even had just said the scene before that she has only seen him once in the last five years. So it would be believable.

[00:48:46] Um, and so I don't know, I guess she's not dumb to continue to trust Alicent because it does continue to work in her favor. But I almost thought she was going to like appoint her to the small council or something. Right.

[00:49:04] But I, I do agree with you that it seems wild to trust her in, especially in saying that Aegon's dead because now she knows the truth and you've given her a lot of power by doing that. Yes. So, yeah, I thought that was pretty wild. And even Rhaenyra doesn't seem very convinced of it all.

[00:49:31] Like, she was not a good fake out for that. No. Did you both catch that Alicent had lied at least by omission with Helena? Because when Rhaenyra says, you know, I'm going to kill Aegon as your mother's told me I could. And Helena looks at Alicent like, mom, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:01] And certainly it seems like Helena and Aegon didn't care about each other that much, but I think Helena cares a little. I think she cares about him as her brother rather than as her husband. Yeah. And I mean, they share children. They shared the loss of a child. Oh, speaking of which, when Helena says, I don't want to be in this room.

[00:50:27] I think that's because that's the room where little Jaegerius was murdered. Oh, my gosh. How awful. And they said they would bring Johara to her for an hour once every couple days. Yeah. Like, what? Yeah. Why aren't you just letting her be there with them like that feels? Like, is that so they won't run, I guess? Yeah, Johara's kind of a hostage. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:56] That's not, that doesn't feel good. Nope. Yeah. I just wanted to note that Ulf the White continues to delight me on screen. And that was another sort of funny point in this episode when he was getting knighted. He, like, wobbles around trying to kneel down. And then he's so nervous of Damon with the sword on his neck.

[00:51:24] And then before it's over, he's like, is that all? Like, ready to get up. I don't know. I continue to find him just hilarious. And that actor is doing a pretty great job at playing Ulf. I liked when Damon threatened to make Ulf the Lord of Hightower. I thought that was pretty fabulous. Yes.

[00:51:49] Although maybe slightly cruel knowing that that's really what Ulf and Hugh ultimately want. And that it wasn't a real true offer. Right. Yeah. And Ulf wants to be Ulf Targaryen. Yeah. I love how quickly they shut that down. He aimed high. Yep.

[00:52:13] I also noted that, like, once again, Harrenhal is being promised to anyone who slays Aemond. But just the amount of times in this, you know, Game of Thrones universe that Harrenhal is offered up to someone as a reward is just almost comical. Yes. And it's in ruins. Who wants it? Right. And everybody who gets it dies. Right.

[00:52:35] I thought that Rhaenyra was trying to enact what Viserys would do frequently. Mm-hmm. And so when she's told about the noble people and she's like, a banquet. That's what I'll do. And she's right. Viserys loved to throw banquets and tourneys and parties.

[00:53:03] But do you think Viserys would have done what she did? No. No. Yeah. I like that. I like that she was, like, halfway there. But then she put her own spin on it. Mm-hmm. I definitely felt a little Marie Antoinette vibe of let them eat cake, you know, with the whole thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We already talked about Corliss.

[00:53:32] I just don't see where that can go. Nowhere good. Yeah. Yeah. All right. On to news. Yep. Do it. All right. Our first piece of news is titled, House of the Dragon Fans Blown Away by Fantastic Twist Took My Breath Away by Victoria Lixford from NME.

[00:54:02] Episode 3 won warm applause from fans who praised the surprise revelation and a more character-driven plot after an action-packed first two episodes. Quote, Episode 3 was a slow burn, but in the best way, one fan said on X, formerly Twitter. Quote, Instead of nonstop dragon battles, it leaned into politics, deception, and the psychological pressure of ruling.

[00:54:28] That Daron twist at the end was a fantastic cliffhanger, and you can really feel the cracks beginning to form around Rhaenyra's reign. If the rest of the season keeps building like this, we're in for something special. Finally, a viewer drew parallels between this episode and a controversial Game of Thrones plot. A masterpiece, they said. It is exactly the type of episode Daenerys needed in the final season of Game of Thrones. Yes.

[00:55:01] Yes. All right. We have from Entertainment Weekly, written by Nick Romano. House of the Dragonese's long-awaited Darren Targaryen casting reveal as season 3 plot point. Charlie Gordon arrives as Darren Targaryen with a twist. Actor Charlie Gordon portrays a young boy from a merchant family who was threatened by Ormond into dyeing his hair blonde and posing as Darren in order to keep the real prince safe.

[00:55:30] The ruse only unravels once Alicent meets the child and confirms he's not her son. When we shot that scene when Alicent and Rhaenyra both realized he's not Darren, it was a very small room, and I just wanted to work with the steady cam operator and feel the sense of the room spinning. Claire Kilner, a frequent House of the Dragon director who helmed this episode, tells EW. But also, when you get Liv and Emma in the room, you just watch them. It gives you a ton of ideas.

[00:55:59] The double takes that Emma did when they look at Alicent's face and then back to Daeron in the moment when the penny drops. It's just priceless. So who is playing Darren Targaryen really? Really? It's important to note that HBO has not officially acknowledged this casting, while press who saw advanced screeners of the season three episodes are gagged from revealing the detail until the information is properly relayed on the show. Hmm. Interesting.

[00:56:27] So there's no confirmation that that red-headed boy who seems to be Ormond's squire is really Darren, but I'm pretty sure he is. All right. House of the Dragon just referenced the Game of Thrones show HBO should make next. This is by Rick Stevenson from TV Line. A Valeria show could be Game of Thrones' next masterpiece.

[00:56:54] While House of the Dragon has received widespread critical acclaim, some have seen its aesthetic similarities to Game of Thrones as a missed opportunity to more fully expand George R.R. Martin's world. Part of the appeal of a Valeria show is that it would necessitate dramatic differences in look and feel, given its status as a magical empire rather than a more traditional medieval realm.

[00:57:19] You will have an empire unassailable, and our children will rule it forever and a day, Daemon tells Rhaenyra in House of the Dragon Season 3, Episode 3. I style us gods, Rhaenyra, as we were always meant to be. It's a refrain that feels plucked from stories passed down the Targaryen family tree, which reaches back to their origins as Valerian dragonlords,

[00:57:46] some of the only denizens of the old empire to have survived the doom. That cataclysm, a massive volcanic eruption that ignited the 14 flames and shattered the Valerian Peninsula, could be the most epic, tragic, and cinematic event yet depicted on any of the shows, and the dramatic irony of the following an empire doomed to fall so violently is a natural fit with the franchise's tone.

[00:58:14] There's also a natural grandeur to the tale of Valeria that opens up a ton of narrative possibilities, including the rise of the empire, the lies of the dragonlords, or the later years of the freehold leading up to the doom itself. Unfortunately, the cost of such a series might be more than HBO is willing to pay. Yeah, that's kind of my thought too. Extensive. Valeria's magic would make the show a challenge to produce. Even in theory, it feels too tall of an ask.

[00:58:44] There have been rumors of HBO considering Valerian stories in the past, but none have ever been confirmed. Even if those rumors are true, it's easy to imagine the realities of production cutting conversations off quickly. But one solution could be animation. Around that, according to George R.R. Martin himself, HBO may be ready to embrace for future Game of Thrones projects. In a December 2023 blog post, Martin described multiple planned animated series,

[00:59:14] including a nine voyages show centering on the naval adventures of House of the Dragon character Corlys Valerian. Quote, Budgetary constraints would likely have made a live action version prohibitively expensive, Martin wrote at the time. Quote, There's a whole world out there, and we have a lot better chance of showing it all with animation. End quote. Of course, even then, Martin made no indication that a Valeria show was one of the projects in development. For now,

[00:59:44] fans will have to make do on Damon's crumbs and crossed fingers. With House of the Dragon ending after season four, however, the franchise will need a new stalwart to take its place. And HBO has certainly found success with Roman inspired epics before. How do you feel about a Game of Thrones cartoon? I am. I am not a fan of animation. I like and like,

[01:00:14] I'm a huge fan of comedy and animation, but I have a harder time getting into adult dramatic animation. To be fair, I don't know if I've given it like fair or fair. They should just make like snow, because then they can just do it in northern Canada and just have a lot of snow, snowy woods. That's cheap, right? I want him to do the egg on the, and his sisters. Egg on the Carpenter and his sister show.

[01:00:42] I want Visenya and young Vhagar. Before Vhagar had all those holes in her wings. How does she fly? Yeah, and they could do the Doom. Like that would be the first episode. Doom done. It's many, many years after the Doom. Right. That Aegon conquers. That they, but they could tell the story. They could. They could as a backstory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you listening, HBO? I don't know. J.J. R.R. Martin.

[01:01:13] All right. We have some listener feedback. This is from G. Joe Puthia. Hope I'm saying that right. This episode seems slow, but great for podcasting. A lot to talk about. The game of chess really started in today's episode. I blame Rhaenyra's inability to make proper decisions on Viserys. He was a far from effective leader that enjoyed the mob of Valeria overruling.

[01:01:43] I feel for Rhaenyra. She is trying her best, but has got almost no training. The Daron switch was really unexpected. I wonder what game Ormond Hightower is playing. Can't wait to find out. Like I said, this episode really feels like Game of Thrones. Can't wait to hear you all dissect it. Alicia Goetz's stout says, where on earth,

[01:02:09] where on earth did Ormond get hair dye and toner to color that poor child's hair a perfect platinum blonde? Also, like if that was really that easy to do, I feel like we would see other people dying their hair in Westeros. But I digress. Back to Alicia's comments. Also, it's no wonder Alison freaked out when she saw Daron because wasn't he born with Hightower looks and dark hair? Poor Helena. Can we just free her and give her some chickens, please?

[01:02:40] Baby girl has been through enough trauma. Yes. Rhaenyra is so relatable. Running the Seven Kingdoms, feeding rats to the rich while giving to the poor, dealing with her staff, worthless not having two adult kids about a week ago, now all of a sudden wants to legitimize his sons, et cetera. Rhaenyra, all while menstruating, was so relatable to women everywhere. Kudos to Emma Darcy. Give Emma all the awards. Yes.

[01:03:09] Penny Lennox says, AKA Rhaenyra and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. Watching Rhaenyra performing a stressed out, Aaron Sorkin, West Wing walk and talk all day was exhausting. Everyone wants something from her, but she's low on support and even lower on people she can trust. People are lucky she didn't behead more of them. Damon, we all love you,

[01:03:35] but maybe wait a week before suggesting your grieving wife conquer the known world. Yeah. Derek O'Neill says, Emma Darcy has been incredible this season, but this episode, it's, is completely different acting muscle attached. And I couldn't take my eyes off them throughout. I just kept thinking of the Ben Affleck meme as Rhaenyra gets hounded by more and more problems. And of course,

[01:04:04] she's talking about the Ben Affleck meme with him smoking a cigarette and just looking as exasperated as a human can. Also lovely to see a cameo from Dan Fogle. I'm sure we'll see a lot more of him this season. That's the actor whose name neither of us could remember Veronica. Dan Fogle. Yes, Dan Fogle. Yeah. Who does he play? Lord. Torrin Manderly. Yes. Thank you. I was going to say the completely wrong name. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:33] He looked like the cat who ate all the cream. Yes. Instead of the rat that was placed in front of him. Yes. Yes. One of the things that Alicia had said made me think that Corliss doesn't have Rhaenys to rein him in. That's not a good thing. That's right. He's back to just caring about his name living on in the annals of history.

[01:05:03] I think Rhaenys may have been the most serious loss politically because she was, a statesperson. Yes. Yeah. She should have been the queen all those years ago instead of Aseris and we wouldn't be in this mess. Right. Yep. All right. Next week, we will be covering season three, episode four, as of yet unnamed.

[01:05:32] You can leave feedback at our Podcastica Facebook group. We post weekly feedback threads. Or you can leave feedback or voicemails by email at dragons at podcastica.com. You can find all of our contact information and all of the podcasts under Podcastica if you visit podcastica.com. And there will be book talk. Yep.

[01:06:03] Later this evening. Yes. Mostly to talk about how far the show has diverged from the book. Does that make you happy? It does. It keeps you guessing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how to predict where some of these things are going now. And the good thing is that even the book isn't always canon. That's right.

[01:06:27] Because it's a historical account from the views of many different biased men. That's right. Who are observing events or getting things secondhand. And so even their accounts don't match. And so I think it's kind of cool that that leaves a lot of things up for interpretation. Now they've definitely changed some things even obviously outside of what has to be canon in the book.

[01:06:56] But I'm not mad at it. I think it's fun as long as they stay on theme with the story. I don't think the internet always agrees though. Yeah. Yeah. Well that is our show. Thanks for listening everyone. Until next time. I'm Rennie. I'm Veronica. And I'm Wendy. Dracarys.

[01:07:31] So this episode is just an utter departure from the book. I have a bunch of points about what happens in the book versus what happens in the show. So let's go. Let's go. So Ormond Hightower and his army along with Daron and Tessarion are roaming around the south.

[01:07:59] And they're winning small victories in the reach. Damon does not go to him and say the war's over. Because the war's not over. Battles and skirmishes are still being fought everywhere. So that just doesn't happen at all. So obviously there's no Daron switcheroo. Nope. Ormond and Damon do not meet.

[01:08:26] So here's my reservation about the show. I think they have a real problem. I think they have created a real problem for themselves. And that is that they've made everybody, especially Rhaenyra and Alicent, too sympathetic. So right now, in the book, Tylan Lannister is not dead. He never went to the Triarchy. He was never on that ship. So he's there as a member of the small council.

[01:08:56] He's the master of coin. And Rhaenyra should be torturing him to find out what he did with the treasury. And I think that's maybe the reason they killed him off, because they don't want her to be torturing somebody. Rhaenyra really needs to go dark. They're teetering on that Daenerys problem. A sudden and seemingly unmotivated turn, rather than a well-set-up progression to the dark side.

[01:09:25] They did make a move by saying Rhaenyra feels only rage, but her actions don't really reflect that. But especially when she's out there handing out food with her own hands. So, you know, she's going to... They either have to significantly change the plot, or she has to do some really wicked things. And I don't know if they have the stomach to have her doing those really wicked things.

[01:09:55] Yeah, I'm still trying to decide if they can get there without that. I mean, I think this whole episode was setting her up to do some pretty terrible decision-making, or else they wouldn't have had the conversations that they did and spent the amount of time showing how much everyone's working against her. Yeah. And I think they've sent... I think...

[01:10:22] Well, this needs to be in spoiler talk for me to say more. Yeah, some of this we'll talk about in spoilers. But I do think it's possible they can still get there without needing to have her do it the same way as in the books, maybe. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see where they go. So, this is a quote from Fire and Blood.

[01:10:45] At the Red Keep, Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen set about rewarding her friends and inflicting savage punishments on those who had served her half-brother. So, she makes Luthor Largent Lord Luthor. He's the head of the gold cloaks who opened the gates for them.

[01:11:04] Um, Lauren Marbrand, the head of her Queen's Guard, who did not do anything like locking her in a room in the book, he's made Lord Commander of the Queen's Guard. Um, Orwell is sent to the dungeon because he served the greens faithfully and he's not a secret black. Um, and Rhaenyra's maester from Dragonstone, Gerardus, is... She declares...

[01:11:30] She writes a letter to the Citadel and declares that he is the one and only true Grand Maester, which she doesn't have the authority to do. Only the Citadel can make a Grand Maester or an Archmaester. Um, there is a...

[01:11:44] Something in the show said about, um, rewards being put out for the capture, uh, of the usurper styling himself Aegon II, his missing children, the Kingsguard knights, knights Rickard Thorne and Willis Fell, and Larys. So there's rewards out for all of them. Because those two Kingsguards knights took off with Jaehera and, um, Malor, the youngest son of Aegon and Helena, who doesn't exist in the show.

[01:12:15] Um, and the... So the rewards get no results. So she sends out hunting parties of knights inquisitors. That does not sound good. Mm-mm. With orders not just to find the traitors, but to punish anyone who has helped the traitors. She binds Queen Alicent in golden chains, sparing her life only because of the love that her father bore for Alicent.

[01:12:42] Um, there are two Lords, Lord Rosby and Lord Stokeworth, who went over to the Greens. They'd been Blacks, they went over to the Greens, and now they want to come back to the Blacks. But Rhaenyra has their tongues cut out and then has them executed. Um, which provokes a little bit of a succession crisis with their lands. Both of them had an eldest child who's a daughter. Um, Daemon proposes marrying the daughters to Hugh and Ulf.

[01:13:11] Hugh doesn't have a wife in the book. Yeah. Um, and having the daughters inherit those lands. But Corlys argues that that would overturn centuries of law and custom, and that Rhaenyra being named heir by Viserys is a special case, and that the younger brothers of each girl should inherit instead.

[01:13:32] And out of fear of losing support of Lords who have older sisters, uh, and might feel threatened by this change of succession rules, Rhaenyra goes with Corlys's advice. So she, she ends up upholding the patriarchy.

[01:13:47] I think they, because, I mean, the show from the get-go, from season one, episode one, has been showing the struggle against the patriarchy of all these women in these different ways. I think if they didn't paint a different ways, I think if they didn't paint a different route for Rhaenyra, they wouldn't be able to hold onto that theme in the same way.

[01:14:13] If she just became, like, a Cersei Lannister type thing. If these decisions she's making, I think will have to be atrocious because it's that whole damned if you do, damned if you don't. And she's backed in a corner rather than her lashing out. I think there will be some lashing out.

[01:14:34] I fear it's going to be towards Rhaena and the whole sheep stealer situation rather than some of the other ways that could have been done. And it's not going to be as clear-cut, like, terrible stuff. But I think they had to do that or else you lose this, like, deeper theme of it all.

[01:15:01] I think you have to still feel some empathy. I think it's the same story with Alicent, too, that you have to still find. They want to tell the story where you're still finding empathy and you see how she has, they've both been trapped in this sort of world where they can't live what they'd really like to be doing. And so I think that's why they've changed it. And I totally agree with that.

[01:15:28] But I think that they've made some of the male characters way too sympathetic, too. Ulf and Hugh. In the book, Ulf and Hugh are knighted, same as in the show. But Hugh celebrates his knighthood by beating one of the Queen's household knights to death in a brothel during an argument over a sex worker. Ulf gets drunk and rides naked through the streets. Rides a horse, I assume, not a dragon.

[01:15:55] And, quote, the people of King's Landing grew to despise both of the Queen's new maid knights. And they've made Ulf funny and sympathetic. And Hugh just played sympathetic. And so we can talk more about that in the spoiler section, too. Yeah. Far from rejecting her small council, Rhaenyra brings them all to King's Landing with her.

[01:16:25] And Bartimaeus Celtigar becomes master of coin. He's one of the ones who's been troublesome to her. So he imposes ruinous taxes to rebuild the treasury, including charging three pennies for admission to the dragon pit where executions were to be carried out and the corpses then fed to the dragons. And people could pay to go watch that. Which is a great way to have people really turn against the dragons. Yeah, no kidding. Yes.

[01:16:53] So it looks like possibly from the next week preview that we are still going to get the storyline of a master of coin being very hated. I don't know who it will be. Yeah. So Aegon and Aemond had not been beloved by the people of the city, but as more and more executions took place and more taxis were levied, quote,

[01:17:19] the girl that they had once cheered as the realm's delight had grown into a grasping and vindictive woman, a queen as cruel as any king before her. One named Rhaenyra King Maegor with teats. And for a hundred years after, Maegor's teats was a common curse among kingslanders. I think you can get there.

[01:17:43] Like, I think you can see from this episode, though, how fickle the small folk are to blame the crown for everything. And so I think even without her actually doing truly cruel things, they can get to seeing her as that bad, especially with her pissing the faith off already. And she doesn't even really have to be that bad for people to turn against her. Just the taxes alone would do it. Yeah.

[01:18:13] I mean, people are starving. Yeah. So Myceria in the book was never on Dragonstone with Rhaenyra. She'd been hiding out in King's Landing. Quote, though never officially seated with the queen's small council, the woman now known as Lady Misery became the mistress of whisperers in all but name. Damon, quote, remained in her thrall and called upon her every evening with Queen Rhaenyra's apparent blessing.

[01:18:42] Quote, let Damon slake his hungers where he will, she is reported to have said, and we shall do the same. Um, Septon Eustace suggests somewhat waspishly that her grace's own hungers were slaked largely with sweetmeats, cakes, and lamprey pie as Rhaenyra grew ever more stout during her days in King's Landing.

[01:19:02] And I think this is a great example of, right, the male narrators, the male pro-Agon narrators, um, of the book. Just trying to paint her to be terrible in every light. That's right. That's right. Um, it's not the only, the only place where they, they call her fat. Yeah. Yeah. In the book, in the book either.

[01:19:30] Um, but, uh, I think what they're doing with, as you were talking about earlier, that love triangle between Misery, Damon, and, um, Rhaenyra is much more interesting than that Rhaenyra says, oh yeah, let Damon and Misery have each other, I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. That interplay between Damon and Misery is much more interesting, and among the three of them, I, I really like it. So I think that's a very good change from the book. Okay.

[01:20:01] Um, there's nothing in the book about Rhaenyra wanting a big coronation. Instead, what she's planning is a big investiture of Joffrey as her heir. Mm-hmm. That's the ceremony that she's most interested in. And here's a big, big, big difference. And I don't know where they're going with this in the show, but she'd already legitimized Adam and Alan right after the red sewing, uh, right after the dragons had been claimed.

[01:20:29] Uh, Corlys asked her to, uh, legitimate them. And Jace, who was still alive at the time, he supported that request. And so she did. So he was already Adam Valerian. But Corlys does get mad at her. He does, but not over that. Okay. We'll talk about it in spoilers. He gets mad at her later. Okay.

[01:20:54] To me, I think maybe this builds to that again in a way that makes Rhaenyra more sympathetic than she is in the book for it to build this way and put the blame more on Corlys for being hotheaded. But I don't know. Then finally, um, Ormond does not take Humbleton. It remains held by loyalists to Rhaenyra.

[01:21:22] So they're reversing who holds the city and who attacks it. Wait, say it again. So in the show, Ormond captures Tumbleton. Mm-hmm. And presumably the blacks are going to go and attack it later. It's the other way around in, um, in the book. The blacks, the pro-Rhaenyra faction stays in possession of Tumbleton.

[01:21:49] And then the greens attack it. So where I think this season is going to- But isn't that what just happened? No. No. Mm-uh. Mm-mm. Nope. Because we know that there's going to be a battle at Tumbleton because we've seen it in the trailers. And we didn't see what just happened. And- But what just happened- Okay. Let's, let's wait till the spoiler section to talk more about that. Because I'm so confused now. Okay.

[01:22:19] That's all I have before we get to the spoiler section. I think that's all I have to do then. Okay. Um. Then we are going to go into the spoiler section. And we are going to warn you that dragons approach. Watch out for dragons, also known as spoilers. Spoilers. Okay. Spoilers section.

[01:22:53] Um. So. The Battle of Tumbleton involves, um, sheeps- Not sheep's tiller. Um. Silverwing and Vermithor. Yeah. And that's going to happen later. That's not what just happened. Right. But I thought in the book that Tumbleton was held by the Blacks, essentially.

[01:23:23] Ormond came in and took it over. And then Silverwing and- Or Hugh and Ulf went there to attack and ended up turning close. And isn't that essentially the sequence that we're in the middle of right now? Well, they do. Um. Hugh and Ulf do go, but they end up attacking the city while it's still held by the Blacks.

[01:23:54] I thought- While it's besieged by Ormond. I thought it was besieged by Ormond. Uh. I guess I don't see what the difference is. It's on- It's who's inside the city and who's outside the city. The shocking thing in the book- Okay. Is that Hugh and Ulf attack the city, even though it's still loyal to Rhaenyra's side. Okay.

[01:24:19] And they're still playing it similarly, that if they attack the city right now, it has the entire innocent population that was essentially faithful to Rhaenyra held inside. But just we have Ormond also inside versus- Correct. Outside. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Um. Okay. My first big spoiler point is, what?

[01:24:49] Sunfire's dead and rotting? How can Sunfire be dead? I don't think she is. I think someone has seen her laying, and I even think we get a glimpse of her in the preview, but I'm not sure. And I think everyone thinks she's dead, but she's not, is what I am guessing. Okay. Unless, unless, unless, unless, you know, they're going to use a different dragon some way.

[01:25:18] But I think that that's going to be a big twist, and that she's, you know, as close to dead as possible, and no one knows that she's actually alive. I think we get Aegon reuniting with her, and that gets her moving. I hope so, because, um, in the book timeline, by the time we get to Aegon and Sunfire showing up at Dragonstone, um, and going, surprise, Venera!

[01:25:48] The greens don't have any living dragons left. Yeah. Even Dreamfire has been killed at that point. Yeah. So. I think she's still alive. I think that was a misdirection that they explicitly said at this episode, like, no. I think she's still alive. I don't know. It sounded believable that, you know, Bela's been out scouting. Bela supposedly saw Sunfire dead and rotting.

[01:26:17] I don't know. I think she just looks dead. Okay. That's my guess. Not quite dead yet. I, yeah. Wow. They're just coming down hard on Sunfire being dead, and maybe it is just to make it really surprising when Sunfire rises from her own ashes. Yeah.

[01:26:41] I mean, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe they've changed it, but it almost feels like why not more definitively say that earlier on than doing it this way? Like, this feels like purposeful misdirection and inconclusive ending. Like, why wouldn't we have seen her carcass dead? Like, I don't know. To me, it almost feels, like, too obvious of misdirection.

[01:27:08] What worries me the most is that they're not going to have her burned to death and eaten by a dragon. But that death is so central to her whole story and to the rest of Targaryen history. They've already said it in the main Game of Thrones show. Like, that's absolutely how she's going to die. Yeah. It's going to be by Sunfire. Where I don't think she even has, like, she doesn't even have to be that terrible.

[01:27:34] It's the whole, like, she tried to usurp the throne from who she's saying, like, she has to die for all of these things. Right. She has to die. But how does she die? Oh, I just mean, like, if Aegon comes back into control, as we know he does in the book, she has to die. Even if she didn't do terrible things later on Twitter. But, like, that is just what Aegon would do as a king, right? Yes.

[01:28:03] Most kings would do. Yes. Is put her to death. And so I just don't think, even with all the changes they're making, I believe that Sunfire is still alive and that is how Rhaenyra dies. And they do foreshadow that with that last shot of Rhaenyra's face through the flames. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. No, I think it, I think those things are still true.

[01:28:32] And I think we may even see Sunfire next episode. I hope so. I didn't actually watch the preview, so. Oh, sorry. I'm going to go watch it. If I'm. Okay. Sorry. No, I'll go watch it now. Yeah. Okay.

[01:29:14] All right. I don't know. I'm very curious about it, too. And there's no reason. Like, they're going to give him more of a role. There's no reason you bring in Dan Fogler. I know. In this weird episode. Cameo. Have a cameo of him. So, they're doing something. I just have no idea what. Yeah, me neither. I was. I. When. Raniere said. Torrin Manderly.

[01:29:45] I said, what? What? Yeah. Yeah. I don't get that. But. I love Dan Fogler. So. Oh, wait. I'm saying his name. Is it. Fogler. Fogler. Okay. I really like him. And so. I'm curious to see what they do with him. And expect. That the actor will deliver. Yeah. Even if the storyline doesn't. Yeah. Well, I feel like. You know, I might.

[01:30:14] I might as well. Be a non-book reader. For all I can predict. About where the show is going from here. Right. I'm. I'm very curious. To see. Where Bela. Story. Yes. In this. In between time. I'm. I mean. Corliss is basically. Out. And so. That. Is he though? I'm not sure he is. I don't. I don't know. Because.

[01:30:44] Raina. Raina just walked away. She didn't fire him. I mean. I think. I. I think. Even with making. Hugh. Hugh. Ulf's characters. More likable. That they've still. Set up. A believable through line. For me to believe. They would turn. When they kind of see. All sides are bad. And we have dragons. So why not take. What we deserve. I also think. Because they've set up.

[01:31:14] Hugh's wife. To be at. Tumbleton. That that is going to be. Hugh's downfall. When he realizes. That he basically. Burns his wife to death. Yeah. And I think he won't care. About anything else. From then on. And that will be his. Sort of. Impetus to turn. And that we didn't need him. He has to already have turned. In order to burn her. Well. Yeah. I don't know. I think he's going to. I think it's going to. There's going to have to be.

[01:31:43] Some sort of. Accident. Around that. Where he. I don't know. That's the only way. In my head. Yeah. Given how they've. Set his character up. To be sort of respectable. I think he has to. Experience that loss. And that tips him over the edge. To being. On a different side. But it also. Really wondering. It has to be him. Yeah. Really wondering. What the timeline is now. Because I'm starting to wonder. What the heck are they going to do. In season four.

[01:32:14] Well I think. I don't know. Here's my predictions. I think by the end. Of this season. We may. Maybe get. I was trying to decide. If we get both parts. Of Tumbleton. If they condense it down. To be. I don't know. Sort of like. Episode four. Five and six. It doesn't. I. The way things are. We may. Only get. Tumbleton. Part one. As sort of. Episode five. Even though. I don't think so.

[01:32:43] I don't think we're there yet. Oh but you saw the preview. Does it look like the battle takes place? Well we're going to episode four. Oh four. That's right. So I was saying. Maybe we get battle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Five. Yeah. And then. I'm still very curious. What they. When. And what they do with Helena's character. I know. How that. Turns out. Yes. And so then I guess. That leaves us with. Season four. We'll finally get.

[01:33:13] Aemond and Damon showdown. Yeah. I don't think. They're going to kill. Matt Smith off. Any earlier than they have to. I think they're going to. Postpone that. Way later than it happens in the book. I think. We're going to get. Something going on with Damon. And Raina. Flying around. Yes. Doing some battling. I. And we're going to have. Some serious time. I think with. Alice Rivers. And Aemond. Yeah. I'm hoping that. That should be this season. Yes. If I had to say.

[01:33:42] Episode four. Five. And six. The things that I think. Are going to happen. Is that we get. Tumbleton. Part one. Where we get. The sort of. Split. Of the dragon riders. I think we get. Aemond and. Alice. I think we get. Damon. And Raina. And Sheepstealer. And I think that we get. Aegon reuniting with Sunfire. In a pretty bad. Both of them in a pretty bad state.

[01:34:14] Hey you look like hell. Wow you look pretty bad yourself. What. Else might we. Get. That's the thing. I mean. After. After. Rhaenyra flees back to Dragonstone. Not that much. Happens. Before she. Dies.

[01:34:42] And I can't imagine them doing more than one episode. After she dies. Same. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're going to do the whole. Short. Unhappy reign of Aegon the second. I mean. If they don't get to Tumbleton. Part two. I think that'll be the beginning. Of season four. Yeah. Will be. Adam. Will be. Her. Trying to go after.

[01:35:11] Raina and Sheepstealer. And causing that divide between Daemon. Then the big fight with Daemon. And Aemond. Then Rhaenyra. Fleeing and getting. Killed by Aegon. I mean that's. Four or five episodes worth. Of things right there. And then a final episode. To wrap up all those storylines. Have. Is it Viserys who's. Across the sea right now. Aegon.

[01:35:40] Aegon the younger. And Viserys. Both are evidently. Have them brought back. I think that's. I think that. Maybe that's enough. I don't know. We'll see. I think we're going to have to have something. And this is one thing I'm guessing. Maybe they're going to change. I don't know how they would change the order. But I'm just wondering when the rest of the north. Is going to come.

[01:36:10] Because that feels like. Maybe they're going to leave it out. But I just sort of expected. Jace's death. To spur. Stark. What's his name? Cregan. Cregan. Stark. To come. But that seems like. Will they really do that. In the aftermath. Or will they like. Have him show up a little bit earlier. Because in the book. He doesn't come down.

[01:36:39] Until after Rhaenyra is gone. Right. And I just. That seems like. Another sort of. Character. Since they've spent the time. Introducing him. That they might want to. Have interjected a little more. Into play. Earlier. And so I'm curious. If they bring him down. To like. The. The. Winter wolves fight at. Tumbleton part two. Right. Part one. I think. Can't remember now.

[01:37:08] But maybe he comes down. To one of those battles. I don't know. Yeah. I think Roddy the Ruin. Dies in first. Tumbleton. Okay. So then maybe. They'll bring Cregan. In to Tumbleton. Part two. I don't know. Or something. I don't know. It's just. It would be strange to me. It just feels like. The final episode. Is going to be so many. Loose strings. Would they leave that. For that. I don't know. We'll see. I guess.

[01:37:38] Or maybe. They'll all live. Happily ever after. Yeah. Maybe. We just tell everyone. That Rhaenyra. Has been killed by a dragon. And really. Rhaenyra. And Alyscent. And Helena. Run off. To go live in the woods together. Happily ever after. And dance. They go off to Essos. And reunite with Laenor. Who is also not dead. Oh. There we go. Perfect. You know. Laenor. Is that. The happy ending.

[01:38:09] Possibly. Of this. Entire. Entire series. Let's just hold on to that. Yes. We could have the very last scene. Be Laenor living his best life. Off in Essos. Carl. Was that his boyfriend's name? Carl with a Q. That's right. Really? Carl. All right. I think that's. All I have now that I've made all my wildest predictions. All right. Well we'll see. Okay. That is all.

[01:38:39] Until our next episode. So. Can't wait. Lee C. Camp here. If you've been enjoying this show. I think you might enjoy my podcast. No Small Endeavor.

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