Widow's Bay S1E2 "Lodging"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Hmm. Okay, I'll do it. If that's what it takes, I will stay there tonight. You have to stay in the captain's suite. The what? Lost his mind, got his family with an axe. Of course we then named a suite after him. Anything else? The ungrateful Hortens Fitzgerald. Was she the lady who fell out of a window?

[00:00:27] Ugly woman who fled her wedding back through window and fell to her death. If you see ugly Hortens three times, you'll see her ungrateful reflection. You know, I'm gonna ask if we start questioning these narratives. There's misogyny in the air, more than a whiff. You're not writing these down. Oh, sorry. Oh, New Year's Eve 1962 disaster. John Reynolds' head in the dumbwaiter. That clown killer of 51. Oh, yeah. This was the guy who killed clowns? No, it was a murderer who dressed as a clown. Sorry.

[00:00:56] He should spend time in that crawl space. Yeah. Ooh. Thank you, Rosemary. All the way to the back, too. Not halfway. And this is wax episodic. Not a problem. Anything else? He's not gonna spend the whole night there. Kurt could lock him in. Oh.

[00:02:00] Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Karen. And this is Everything's Fine at Widow's Bay podcast. And this episode, we're covering Widow's Bay Season 1, Episode 2, Lodging. Such a great idea for an episode, stay the night in a spooky hotel. Right? On a dare. Yeah. I really like this one a lot. I loved this episode. It was so good.

[00:02:27] It was filled with so many weird little elements. And I've seen it now four times, maybe five times, honestly. If you count the first time I watched it. And each time I see something new and interesting, and I liked it more and more. So at first I was like, that was good. And now I'm like, wow, that was a great, great episode.

[00:02:51] They put little details in on all levels, including little jokes, too. Like, for example, when he goes to the restaurant to get some food and the server gives him a bag and he goes, did Kathy pack this? No, I did. Okay. She's so unreliable. She's so unreliable. Yeah.

[00:03:14] And you know, I do love a good dare, but I will not be staying at the Inn at Widow's Bay, at least not in the captain's suite. Even if everyone mocks you. Yeah, it's fine. Whatever. Oh yeah, totally fine with that. Sure. Yeah, fine. I'm a coward. You're right. You're so right. I am not going to stay in the captain's suite. Uh, uh, but you, you and David like to go to haunted hotels.

[00:03:44] We do love to go to haunted hotels. We've been to a bunch. Yeah. We've been to a bunch candidate. You would go in the call space, right? Legit. Well, okay. I'm sorry. I love staying at a haunted hotel with David. Uh, do I like, would I stay in a haunted hotel by myself? Maybe not. Would you go in the captain's suite with David? David. All right. Coward.

[00:04:14] Sorry, David. You're on your own. I'll kick the suitcase. I'll go with David. I would go with David. I'll kick both your suitcases in there. Let's all three of us go. It'll be fun. We'll go in the call space together. I'll just count to 10 and see if you still feel that way. We can play daddy's home. No, I think we should play. She shouldn't have said that. We could play them all. All right.

[00:04:43] Okay. I'm going to read the plot summary. It says, Widows Bay prepares for tourists after the New York Times article promoting the town is published. The church bell rings nine times in the middle of the night, despite being chained up, prompting Reverend Bryce, to consult an old warning of what to do if this happens. Residents dare Tom into staying overnight at the supposedly haunted Breakwater Inn. He agrees to stay there and to document its oddities on camera.

[00:05:10] That night he befriends a man named William who later appears to Tom in a nightmare. That's a judgment. But anyway, as a killer clown who attacks him inside a crawl space. The next morning security footage shows Tom talking to himself during his supposed interaction with William. Tom, Wick and innkeeper Kurt discover black mold in the suite after Kurt briefly enters the room and emerges believing he'd been trapped inside far longer than he actually was.

[00:05:37] Despite Wick's insistence that the island's curse is real, Tom refuses to close the town. No, he's not going to close clown town. Nope. He, the mold gave him, he, he keeps getting excuses to be able to say, have the rationale that, no, I know it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Everything's fine. It was black mold the whole time. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:08] We have black mold always creates elaborate lengthy hallucinations. I mean this time, cause last time I was saying, Oh, you know what? Maybe you could say that there's a rational explanation for everything this time. I don't really think that I don't buy the black mold maybe in TV logic, but would cause hallucinations. But, um, it could just be that Tom's crazy. I guess that would be one rational explanation. Sure. Sure.

[00:06:38] You could make that. Like Norman Bates or something. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You could definitely, um, uh, but the innkeeper Kurt would also have to be crazy. Um, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, and also the, um, you know, they closed him in there for 30 seconds and opened the door and there was more than 30 seconds worth of crap that had happened to the room.

[00:07:07] I mean, he could have just done it. I know. I'm, I'm not really disagreeing with you. I'm saying it is possible if you just turned around and started doing all that stuff. I'm going to fuck with them, but no, no, I, you're right. He, something weird happened there with time differences. Then weird happened. So, um, yeah, things are getting weirder now.

[00:07:29] Well, let me start with the less weird stuff at the beginning with just sort of indications about, well, not indications, this sort of pregnant feeling that the plan worked and the tourists are coming. They're coming, you know, soon over the weekend, coming weekend. Right. And so the Patricia and, uh, Tom are looking at the New York times article from that reporter, which is out. Yeah.

[00:07:54] And, um, Oh, first they're looking at the brochures that they've made up a guide to widows Bay Island and she's flipping through it. Did you freeze frame any of that? I didn't. I did. But you, Oh, good. Let me know what it say. She's flipping through and it looks like, I mean, the writers wrote a lot of it for reels, even though most people will never see it. Love it. One of the early pages says hello from the mayor with a picture of Tom smiling in his

[00:08:24] cheerful welcome message. And he mentions the upcoming 4th of July celebration at widow's beach where he'll take the inaugural swim to the buoy and back, which that should be fun. That should be fun. What can go wrong? What can go wrong? He also mentions, uh, dining, shopping, romantic walks, the historical society, the Richard Warren house, which is the founder. And I guess it's a museum and the historic lighthouse.

[00:08:51] And there's stuff about tours, including a cemetery tour. And one of the page says, uh, about their history says something, something trade ships in the 1700s, something plague. Uh, the town was thriving by the mid 1750s. There were setbacks with rumors of strange and deadly fog, aggressive sea creatures, other anomalies that threaten the wellbeing of the citizens of widow's Bay. When you visit the historical society, you can see firsthand accounts and period articles and photos of some of the

[00:09:19] phenomena that envelops the lore of the Island. And when you stay at the breakwater in, be sure to be on the lookout for ghosts and other hauntings. So they're kind of doing the Salem thing already. Yes. Right. Yeah. The spooky stuff. Leaning into it. That's a smart idea. Yeah. Um, Patricia's mad that her poem isn't in there. Even though she double checked with the printer twice. Yeah. I think Tom sabotaged it.

[00:09:49] I think so too. To Tom look like the kind of thing you do. That's too bad. That kind of stuff happens. That's too bad. But I love it. We last episode, we found out she's a painter. Now she's a poet. I love her. She's a Renaissance woman. Absolutely. Did they, did you see headings? Like, um, anything about say, um, lodging, uh, what to expect on your trip, our history, seasickness. Okay, good.

[00:10:16] So like the names of the episodes, like I said, in the last podcast, um, the, the names of all of the widow's Bay episodes sound like they come from a brochure. A brochure. They're the headings of a brochure. Yeah. I mean, I, it wasn't, I liked that it wasn't goofy. Like it seemed like stuff that would actually be in this kind of a brochure. And you know, there was stuff about events and things like that.

[00:10:45] And I also just liked, I liked in this episode, the feeling of competent people getting something done. Like they made up these brochures. They, I mean, Tom had the article writer come, they're extending the doc. Uh, what else that he got the espresso machine, you know, just all this stuff that they're doing. Are they extending the doc? Well, that's what happened in this.

[00:11:12] What we later found out was some kind of hallucination or something, but Tom mentioned it. So I think it is happening. It's just not that William is the guy that's there to do it. Right. Right. That's what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Unless he, unless he shows up. Yeah. What was that the other night? Oh, sorry. I like to clown around. Right. I can become invisible when I want, you know.

[00:11:41] So then they looked through the New York times reporters article. Well, it's short, but did you look at that at all? I didn't. I didn't. It was really hard to see. It was blurry. Yes. But I got some stuff out of it. Don't look for Starbucks here. We have harkened back to a different time. A lack of modern amenities can feel unnerving at first, but after taking in the sparkling views

[00:12:05] and something, something as far from the mainland was, uh, was a feeling most welcomed. Uh, the weekend certainly wasn't long enough to enjoy and unwind on this island location. Although the ferry ride is long three plus hours and the journey might be a bit choppy with waves and storms coming from nowhere. And fog sudden fog. Right. Yeah. It's an ideal journey to work on your summer reading list.

[00:12:31] Uh, but so the part that I thought was interesting, um, oh, wait, there's a couple parts. One says a low level hum blankets, the beach. Some of the locals say, if you listen, you can hear the island whispering to you. And then widow's Bay is the next Martha's vineyard. And of course that's the line you had repeated fill up on French toast and fresh maple syrup and all that. And then he says, my stay was nearly idyllic with the only sour note being my interactions with the mayor

[00:12:56] who is working too hard to sell up an already eclectic Island or something like that. Isn't that funny? Oh, that is so funny. It's so hard to sell this guy on it. And it turned out he was like the one sour note that it sold itself. He could have just not been there and it would have been better probably. Oh, that is so funny. Um, and what part did he want? Um, did he want Patricia to reread in the car?

[00:13:23] Just that this is the next Martha's vineyard. Right. And she's like, that's all it says about us. And she's like, it's not really a part. So I just love that. Like I said, people are building something and that it's working out, but also in the right, the reporter wrote this great article that's going to draw to her soon.

[00:13:46] But then, um, the sense of impending doom and it made me think about times when I've, or you read articles about people who just prepared for something and put a lot of time and expense. And it just went so bad that it actually made their life worse. You know, like that thing, I was just telling Karen before we started recording that I tried to do something on my own without hiring a lawyer and it might end up costing me $20,000.

[00:14:16] Cause I wanted to save money. So anyway, I'm laughing cause I don't want to cry, but, um, it also, but another, um, more grounded sort of version of what I just said is there's the feeling like these places are so wonderful because in part they're unspoiled by tourism. Yes. And so you wonder what are these people really inviting on themselves?

[00:14:42] And I think that's one reason why like the reverend says they fear change, but it might also be like, yeah, cause they're fine. You know, the, the, the teenage son doesn't like it, but the other people like their lives and they like their quaint little community and yeah, they could use some more money, but is it really worth turning it into a tourist trap with people selling tchotchkes everywhere and strangers boozing it up and everything else?

[00:15:10] Well, according to, uh, I watched an interview with Matthew Reese. It was really good actually. Um, it was with kingdom drama school on Instagram. And he said that his approach to any part of a scene is you have two objectives. You have the objective objective for the scene. What do you want out of the scene? And then you have something he refers to as a super objective. Like what's his character's main motivation.

[00:15:39] And he said, and in widows Bay, Tom's super objective is for Evan, his son to flourish. He has to make the Island succeed. And, uh, even if it kills thousands of people, like the mayor from jaws. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I'm actually thinking about that as I watch.

[00:16:02] Cause when I watch it as a, an analytical podcaster, it just becomes more clear to me that wick is right. And Tom is kind of wrong and he's putting a lot of people in danger. And so then you of course naturally ask why, and it seems like it's all for his son. Yeah. And so it's like, uh, okay, dude. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But it's fun to watch. It is. And I think he is a good hearted guy.

[00:16:31] I do, I do think that, but, uh, he's a bit being a bit reckless. And he may talk himself into, it's just all, uh, part and parcel to being a, um, with being a good mayor. This is what a good mayor does. A good mayor, um, promotes your, your town and your, your Island and brings interesting people in so that you have, um, cappuccino that tastes really good. Um, and, uh, this is what I want the Island to taste like. Right.

[00:17:01] And he's like, and if these inhabitants don't realize that, that's just cause they're stupid. Cause they're dumb hicks. Exactly. I'm going to make their lives better whether they want it or not. I'm going to kicking and screaming, drag them into this tourism thing. Yup. All right. What else should we talk about? Okay. Let's talk about, let's talk about the mystery, what we know and what we don't know so far.

[00:17:28] So there are some things that got weirder now because of this episode. So at the beginning we see the priest and Tom tells him. I think he's a reverend. Does that make a difference? He's, he's. Yeah. I don't know. I'm Jewish. But he has a priest caller. Sure. Yeah. I think he's called a reverend. Let's call him reverend. Okay. So he talks to the reverend and he's like, Hey, you might want to lock the door at night to the church.

[00:17:57] So that Evan doesn't sneak in and, and, uh, and ring the, the, uh, bells. And, uh, he looks, uh, the reverend looks surprised and, um, goes and checks and there's cobwebs on the ladder and the bells are chained up. So what they heard was definitely bells. Cause we heard it too. And, um, I'm just kidding.

[00:18:24] And, um, and it didn't come from the actual bells. So it's the Island ringing the bells, ringing the bells. And apparently that says something to the reverend because we see him read a letter later on. And, um, we don't see everything that the letter says, but we see some things. It says, I pray this burden will never fall to you, but should the bell toll there are steps you must take on the north side of the rectory. There is a chamber.

[00:18:53] Well, you will find dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Yeah. It seemed like when Tom told him the bells rang, he, he seemed surprised. He did. And then he goes and checks and they're chained up. And to me, that means, yeah, they're chained up. So how could they run? I chained them up so they wouldn't ring. And also that's a bad thing.

[00:19:16] If these bells rang, that's I'm, I'm speaking a little bit from hindsight, I admit, but you can get that from watching this too, that he's just, it seems like a big deal to him. Right. And then he has to read some freaking instructions about what to do if this happens. And so it seems like a big deal and take some steps. So the more on that in the secret section at the end. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:19:41] Also, uh, there were some, there was some strange stuff and we'll talk about a lot of the strange stuff in the episode, but the hotel and everything. Yeah. One of the things that I thought was interesting was the TV in Tom's room in the hotel in the captain's suite. An old, like cathode ray TV set with, um, apparently just one channel. Um, and it was like a lost style video. It was right. Yeah.

[00:20:10] Like Dharma initiative. Yeah, totally. Right. Um, welcome to widow's Bay. There's so much to see here. Come on. And then the narrator walks down the, walks down the beach and keeps walking and the camera does not follow him. He just keeps walking, which is weird. The music sounded like it was right out of one of those Dharma initiative videos too. It's kind of some pleasant. Totally.

[00:20:36] But things, uh, get stranger when Tom turns the television back on later. Um, Tom like flips the channel. It's the only thing on is this welcome to widow's Bay, but, uh, the guy has left the scene because the, the camera is still pointed at the beach and there's no guy. He looks kind of, um, a little creepy at first cause he's a little disheveled, but he, his demeanor is pleasant enough that you can overlook it. Sure.

[00:21:05] But then when he walks up in the camera, you're like, what the fuck is going on here? What the fuck is going on? This is weird. And then it's every channel. And so it just gets creepier and creepier. It gets creepier and creepier. And then, um, later on Tom turns the TV back on and the beach is empty. He clicks through the channels, nothing. And then clicks again. All of a sudden you see it, uh, uh, way in the distance, a dark figure. Like a wraith or something. Yeah. And it's like, what? And he kind of looks down at his, at his hand.

[00:21:35] Turn that off, dude. And then he looks back up and the original man in the trench coat is back suddenly. Right in the front of the camera. And he says something like, come with me. And then the TV kind of shorts out and kind of, uh, has a little bit of a, uh, boom. And, and the, the magnificent Matthew Reese says, fuck. Yeah. And then they're like, you're all right, neighbor. Uh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:02] If I saw like, that's when I would really freak out if I was Tom in that situation. And then he did what I probably would have done. Cause his neighbor had asked him if he wanted to go for a drink and he said no. And then the guy heard him scream. And the next you cut to them having a drink together. I probably would have done the same thing. Like, yeah, let me, this guy seemed all right. I think I don't want to be alone right now or in this room. So. Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly.

[00:22:31] Cause I'm trying, I was, well, I haven't really think about it much, but if I was Tom and I decided to accept this challenge. What would I do? And I'd probably bring some alcohol with me. To calm my nerves. And I'd probably just curl up under the covers and try to go to sleep. I think I would be okay. Hey, if I had more people with me, like if I had a team of other humans with me, I might be more brave. Tom doesn't really have anybody.

[00:23:01] It seems, you know, Patricia gave him a ride there. Like he doesn't have any better friends than her and she's great, but they just don't, they seem like coworkers, you know? Oh, the way she dropped him off was so funny. She said to him, this place, this place freaks me out. Okay. Good luck. Bye. So that cracked me up. So yeah, things are starting to get weird at the end.

[00:23:30] We also, he leans down and listens to noise coming from the vent in the bathroom. And it sounds like a New Year's Eve party. Cause there's a big, the crowd is counting down seven, six, five, four. And then all of a sudden you hear the crowd screaming. And one of the items on the checklist was New Year's Eve party, 1962 disaster. Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Uh huh. Yeah.

[00:23:58] It didn't say something else about it too. Um, New Year's Eve, 1962 disaster. John Reynolds head in the dumb waiter. Was that different or together? I think it might've been together. Maybe. Yeah. I'm not sure. But anyway, yeah. It reminded me of, um, Charlie, the choo choo from the dark tower, Stephen King, where there's this book of kids, uh, on a choo choo train and the, the looks on their faces look like

[00:24:27] they might be having fun, but they might be just terrified. And the train looks either happy or super evil. And it just, that felt very Stephen King when all of a sudden it's like, like they're all in agony or something, you know? Right, right, right, right. Very cool. And then Tom's just like, huh. And okay. So let's talk about William. William.

[00:24:54] So William, uh, asks if he wants to go have a drink. He finally accepts him, uh, accepts his invitation and William's dressed like he's from a sort of a different era. 50s, right? Yeah. 50s, 60s. Like the board games. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And he seems like he knows exactly what Tom wants to hear. So he says to him as an opener, he says, I've been to Widow's Bay before. Nice to get a cappuccino for once.

[00:25:24] And, uh, Tom's like, yeah, that was like in Tom, he, he knows what's in Tom's head. Cause it's basically, it's probably the island fucking with him. Yes. I like that because I'm, you know, um, I'm gonna let you finish, but, uh, I was channeling Kanye West there, but, uh, he's, he's like, uh, that works on the level where he's ingratiating himself and also the fear part. Cause fears are personal.

[00:25:51] And I think when the hotel's fucking with you, like this whole time thing with Kurt, the innkeeper, that didn't happen to Tom, but maybe that's his thing for some reason, you know what I mean? So I just think that the hotel knows how to address whatever it's doing to the individual. Right. Right. It's tailoring the terror to, to the individual person. It's very nice that way. Yeah. So he, he knows what Tom wants to hear. He also says he's working on the dock expansion for all the tourists.

[00:26:21] And Tom loves that too. It's like he, he reached into Tom's head and said exactly what, what, uh, Tom needed to hear. So then we see Tom laying back on the, the couch, like he's getting psychoanalyzed. And so he's leaning back with his feet up and, and the, and the whiskey on his, on his, uh, torso. So, and he opens up and he talks about his, um, his childhood and his dad and, um, and

[00:26:50] then, you know, talks about his, what his dad was like. And the dad ends up kind of being exactly like the board game that daddy's home. Um, what's he's, what he's describing is kind of like the board game. Um, did you, did you, uh, dig into the board game at all? Cause the board game had some amazing details. Not a whole lot. I just saw a couple of the items on the spinner wheel.

[00:27:18] Daddy had a bad day and then another go back six spaces. And one of them said, daddy's drinking back four spaces or something like that. Yeah, exactly. Daddy's team. You're right. I think that's, that is, this is all like about his psyche. I think so too. What, what it would take to, um, what he wants to hear because that will then allow him to relax and open up. And we actually learned some things about Tom that are pretty interesting, like you said about his father, but also that he ran uncontested as mayor.

[00:27:47] And so it gets him to open up and then we'll go on. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the game, um, the, um, board pieces included a baseball bat, a belt or a leather restraint. Hard to know, um, a little bottle of whiskey, um, a newspaper, a beer can, and maybe a saucepan. Yeah. It's really fucked up. And as they're playing things to hit a kid with. Yeah. Right. Uh, yeah.

[00:28:16] Uh, as they're playing, uh, William says, Oh, daddy's younger boss yelled at him today. Yay. And then, um, at, uh, one point Tom says, roll to see if the neighbor's home saved by the neighbor. Fucked up. Really fucked up. All this. Yeah, you're right. When he's talking about his father. See, cause I was thinking about it more in terms of, they've mentioned this captain of the captain suite.

[00:28:45] Although Tom says the suite's not named after him, but anyway, that he hacked up his family with a hatchet and that reminded me of Jack Torrance in, and the, the Saul is very much drawing from the shining. Cause it's a hotel and it's a guy drinking with the ghost and going nuts. And, um, but I was thinking of daddy's home more in terms of that. And I think that actually prevented me of seeing the more interesting interpretation, what you're

[00:29:12] talking about, that it's more related to Tom and his relationship with his father and his family and them calling him like, it really bothers him when wick calls him a coward. And, um, then he, we learned that his father called him soft, you know? So that's one reason I think he took this challenge cause he wants to get the town to respect him to, yeah, to agree not to mess with the tourists and to let the tourists come and stay at the hotel, but on a deeper psychological level. Yeah.

[00:29:41] It's cause he doesn't want to be seen as this coward, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stop bullying me. Um, yeah. And, and one last detail about the, about the, um, board game. Um, there's a space in the basement labeled. No, the basement is bad. You lose. Yeah. Yeah. It's all pretty messed up. Also at one point. Right. So he's talking to William and saying everything.

[00:30:11] And then, um, William kind of loses his shit at one point. Yeah. Which also makes me feel like that was Tom's interior because, um, he, he says the worst, you know, the worst thing that's probably that Tom is probably thinking, which is you got to be careful. They'll drag you down with him. If you let them fucking useless ass, backward, small brain town. He hicks, let them rot in hell and watch them all fucking burn. And then he's like, Oh, I may have had too much drink.

[00:30:42] Those two actors handled that so well. Cause Tom did say a word. He's like, do I need to run or something? So as soon as the guy offered that as an out, he totally took the bait. Like, okay, okay, good. Laughing, you know? And then he says to him, I knew two things to be true. You're a great mare and finish off. You finish off that checklist and show him who's in charge. Which is just the crawl space is left. So he wants him to go down there. He does want him to go down there. Yeah.

[00:31:11] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, it sort of fits into my next point. Tom struggle as an outsider. Yeah. Cause the episode keeps reminding us that everyone's resisting Tom and, and he's not fully one of the locals starting with wick, trying to board up the hotel, which was really funny. Oh, it's so funny. Bang, bang, bang. Then he just goes up and opens the door. And I love when the sheriff, uh, got there to pull him away.

[00:31:41] And Tom tried to push his head down into the car. Like cops always do. And the sheriff goes, no, no. And Tom's like, Oh, sorry. And then he, then you think that they've dealt with him. And then he rolls down the window and keeps yelling. He's not one of us. He's a coward. Fuck you. Don't be right in front of all the other residents. So he just turned them even more against him. Yep. They're not going to like them now. They're really not going to like them now. Yeah.

[00:32:10] Then I love the, so, and then, you know, we found out that he, well, we already knew he wasn't born there, but we found out that he, his father was born there, but met his mother when she was there on a tour. And then he lived on the mainland most of his life, but used to go back there for summers. So he does have some relationship with it, but he always hated it there because he didn't like living with his father. And then he was there when his father was dying. And that's when he met his wife and had his son there.

[00:32:40] And then his, his wife died. So it's kind of a tragic backstory for this guy. Yeah. And I guess his mom, he said his mom and his dad on a schooner tour, which is kind of funny. I went on, I went on a schooner tour this summer. Schooners are cool, but he was raised in, it sounds like his mom and his dad. Yeah. In Massachusetts. His mom and his dad didn't live together. Yeah. They divorced.

[00:33:10] Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like. So the Reverend is supportive, which I thought was a nice little counterpoint. Yeah. It made it better for me that the whole town seems against him, but the Reverend was supportive. That just elevate. I don't know why, but that, this little counterpoint where he's like, come, come have a drink with me. And, you know, they just fear change when the Lord gathers a herd, he calls a shepherd. And it was just really nice. A nice moment. He seems like a very, very nice man. The Reverend,

[00:33:40] the way the guy played it, it seemed super sincere. Like, Oh yeah, he would be great to hang out with, you know, there's a connection there. Um, but then I loved when the people in the diner challenged him to stay in the hotel and they kept raising the stakes. You have to stay in the captain suite. Right. Right. Right. Did you, do you remember what they said about it? The captain suite lost his mind and killed his family with an ax or

[00:34:10] something. Right. And then Tom says, so of course we named a suite after him. I thought he said they didn't name the suite after him, but no, he said, of course we named the suite after him. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. So such a funny aside. So the rules are, he has to stay there. He has to say ugly Hortons three times and then he'll see her ungrateful reflection. Do you remember that? And so, Oh my God, that was another funny part where, um, ungrateful,

[00:34:40] ungrateful Hortense Fitzgerald, uh, ugly woman who fled her wedding back through a window and fell to her death. Say ugly Hortense three times and you will see her ungrateful reflection. And then, and then Tom says, I'm going to ask that. We start questioning these narratives. There's misogyny in the air. More than a whiff. More than a whiff. Then, uh, he has to, well, Rosemary goes, he should spend time in that crawl space. Yeah.

[00:35:09] All the way back to not halfway pussy. And then, then, then they mentioned that New Year's Eve disaster that you mentioned and he wrote it on the list and later crosses it off. Oh, I guess because there really, really wasn't an action item, um, tied to it, but I guess he heard it. Yeah. He heard it. Uh, then they mentioned the, the clown killer of 51. This was a guy who killed clowns. No, it was a murderer who dressed as a clown. Oh, sorry.

[00:35:37] And they didn't really have an action tied with that, but either, but he met the clown. So he can cross that one off. Um, it, he also has on his list, dead man's closet and he goes into the closet and counts to five. Nobody said that at the thing. So I wonder if that was a line that got cut or something like that. Right. You know? Right. Yeah. Then he, some guy goes, he's not going to spend the whole night there. And Rosemary goes, Kirk could lock him in.

[00:36:06] So then as he's walking out the door of the Harbor master guys, like, don't do it. Don't do it. I love that. Don't do it. But you know, I, I think I admire him for doing it. Just, it's like, if I, you know, do this, then they have to leave me alone. But I think, as I said, it's something in reaction to having been a coward, called the coward and soft by his father.

[00:36:29] And the whole thing with the clown murderer guy, really, I mean, this episode is a lot about Tom feeling like an outsider in this town where people don't respect him. And, um, I think this William guy is a reflection of that on two different levels. One is that he's a clown. And I think, um, Tom feels like people see him as a clown, a joke,

[00:36:59] a coward and ran uncontested. So not really supported. And then, um, the whole thing about just is feeling steep inside that you are all a bunch of dumb hicks. And, you know, I'd like to believe that that's not the whole truth for Tom, that that's just part of it. You know, that there is also a place in him that loves the people and sees their humanity and everything like that. But I don't know for sure, but that's what I would suspect. You know,

[00:37:26] we all have like some things that you yell out in arguments when you're really mad that you realize you didn't mean later. And I think it's something a little more like that, but no, I think, I mean, he is really frustrated with them too. So. He is frustrated with them, but, uh, cause he really does want to bring the town up and it seems like he's getting, he's getting pushed back at every turn. Yeah. And it says something about him personally too. So, or at least he feels that way and they kind of frame it that way. Like you're an outsider, you're a coward.

[00:37:54] So it's not just the logistics of it. It's also a personal attack, you know? Right. Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. What else? Uh, the filming location. So last week we saw, uh, Gloucester and Rockland, um, which are all on Cape Ann, North of Boston and gorgeous, gorgeous. Uh, everyone should go visit there because it's,

[00:38:22] it is absolutely stunningly beautiful. Um, and anyone who's never been to New England, I highly recommend. And it's great for vacation, just historical places, uh, go on old iron sides, this big old ship in Massachusetts, Boston, the USS constitution, old iron sides. Um, and, um, today I think it's like 70 outside and blue skies. It's perfect. And the, and the leaves are starting to turn. Oh, it's very New Englandy sweater weather.

[00:38:52] We, if you go to like one of those, I mean, the two are Martha's vineyard and, uh, uh, Nantucket and Martha's vineyard is very touristy now and pretty crowded. Yes. You know, it's nice, but that's sort of like, if you were on widow's Bay and you went to Martha's vineyard, you'd be like, do we really want that for, for our town? Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It would change everything. Yeah. Tom, it would change everything. You really might not want that.

[00:39:22] Um, but this episode was filmed. most things were filmed west of Boston. So a lot of locations, the inn was filmed at this old historic site, the old Maynard, um, mansion, which is in Maynard, which is just sort of Southwest of Concord. So around the Concord area, beautiful Walden pond, that area. Um,

[00:39:48] the beach in the welcome to widow's Bay commercial was filmed in Devons, um, um, near a pond where I went swimming last summer. Um, a little place called mirror mirror Lake, which, um, I went swimming near right by there. And the widow's Bay church is the Martha Mary chapel in Sudbury, about 20 minutes due west of Boston. So everything was filmed a little bit west of Boston. This time, a little West,

[00:40:18] a little North, a little South, but, uh, generally right outside of Boston and it's gorgeous. So fun. Yeah. Cool places. Yeah. Think about like the walking dead and it's like, yeah, we went to this one grove of trees and then we went to these train tracks. Oh my God. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No, no dissing on the walking dead. We all love the walking dead, but I'm just saying, right.

[00:40:46] There's so much richer of a environments to explore here. Although there is snow. You can go to snow and snow. I was actually, yeah, exactly. Totally charming. Okay. I want to talk about the in a little bit, just some details that we haven't really touched on. I liked that at night they shot it at an angle from below. It kind of reminded me of the Bates family home and psycho. Uh-huh. That shot. Um, in the lobby,

[00:41:13] there's a painting he's looking at of kids huddled together at the end of a small boat in the ocean with fog enveloping them and ones in the water drowning. And Kurt says, I took down some of the more provocative ones like you asked. And Tom was like, this isn't provocative. Yes. I love that. More about that painting in the secret section. Um, Kurt refuses. I love to step inside the captain's suite.

[00:41:43] Yeah. And I, I really liked this guy's performance where, I mean, he's kind of like Tom. He wants the tourists to come because it'll make him some livelihood, but he's fucking freaked out by this place, you know? Yeah. He won't even step in. He just kicks it in. But the way the actor played it, he just does a really good job of doing a pretty good job of keeping his cool. It's only his actions that betray him. I mean, his eyes dart around a little bit. So it's just funny.

[00:42:13] Yeah. The, um, I think that the, um, the moment where they locked him in the room a little bit longer, it was 30 seconds. They opened the door. He has his hands covering his face. Yeah. But then he, as soon as he, he collects himself quickly, he's like, all right. So it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I'm hungry. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I, I was curious since he wouldn't go in the room, you know, he said, Marie gave it a quick turnover today.

[00:42:42] So we didn't meet Marie, but I guess, you know, someone has to go in there and make the beds and someone did. So I wonder what her experience was like. It's like, yeah, she gave it the quick turnover. We haven't seen her since, but I'm sure she's fine. Did you notice that the, um, the curtains, uh, uh, were open again. The second time Tom came back in the room. He closed them. Yeah. Cause the lighthouse was like, right. Shown right through there, which was pretty funny. Right. Right. Exactly. I also love the wallpaper in the end. Did you notice the wallpaper?

[00:43:12] I don't think so. Ah, wallpaper was creepy looking. I kept seeing faces in the wallpaper, which, um, probably the production designer wanted us to see. Yeah. Yeah. It was really neat. Wasn't that, what is that story? The yellow wallpaper. Are there faces in the wallpaper in that story? I can't remember. I don't know. It's a famous story. I think it's Kate Chopin. I could be totally wrong about all that. Anyway. Um, okay.

[00:43:40] So he goes down into the rec room to get a drink and look around and looks through the board games and sees daddy's home with the scowling father at the dinner table. And, um, then he sees teeth with this smiling cartoon tooth with his thumbs up. Reminded me of a little bit and only a wrench inside. A pliers. Yes. Pliers. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's different. Pliers.

[00:44:10] Um, and I thought about what Jerry at the historical society said, or Tom was telling this reporter about the founding of the island. And imagine arriving in untamed wilderness, blank canvas, totally empty Island. And she says, except the teeth, except for the teeth. So I wonder if that's related. And if it comes back, you know, I don't know. There wouldn't be pliers back then. So who knows? Um,

[00:44:38] and then the game run was pretty awesome. It was, it was amazing. It was amazing. Not yet. Run. How do you play that? That's fun. Uh, then, so then anyway, he checks off most of the islands and then he gets to the crawl space, goes down into the creepiest basement ever and looks at this dark hole. And this, that's what I remembered about this episode. The most last time when I was saying this was the creepiest,

[00:45:08] just like looking at that, I would even be able to stand down there for very long. If I was by myself, much less go into the crawl space. I could, I don't think I could do it, especially, you know, after this old guy attacked Tom and he was freaked out. But even if nothing like that ever happened to me, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I'd piss my pants. I would piss my pants too. Yeah. Well, at that point he, he were, he was a couple of drinks in,

[00:45:34] so he had some liquid courage and he knew that William was upstairs and that if anything really went bad, sort of William had his back maybe. So he has this nice conversation with William. He's, he's a couple of drinks in. Yeah. So he, and that's okay. That I'm going to finish that checklist. Damn it is. The last thing I do. And he did. Yeah. Yep. And he, he goes down there and the,

[00:46:01] just the scene of seeing the legs appear. And cause first he's like, hello, hello. Like Matthew Reese is great at being afraid. And then you're howdy neighbor. Why didn't you answer me before? That was a great thing to say. Right. And then he goes, you need any help or something like that. And I read that Matthew Reese said it was scary filming that, especially because of the way the actor, the William guy committed to the creepy movements of the character. Cause he did a really good,

[00:46:31] good job of screaming in fear. Once the guys are. Yes. Yes. It was great. Yeah. And, and Tom saw, looked over when the, the clown, it's sort of strobe lighty and the clown is crawling in a really creepy way to him. And he's sort of screaming and he looks over and he sees a dead, rotted dead body, but it's dressed like him. And that was also pretty. Yeah.

[00:47:00] I don't necessarily understand the significance of that. Cause I thought, does that mean it was hallucination? Not necessarily. It still could be a supernatural. I mean, it could be a mold induced or a supernatural induced hallucination or. It wasn't real because the sheriff went to check it out and the sheriff didn't find anything. In fact, Tom asked him, did you find anything? And the sheriff said something like,

[00:47:29] does anything about my demeanor suggest that I had a conversation with somebody in the crawl space? Yeah. And to me, that could have meant he didn't find anything or that he didn't want to go in there. He doesn't say. But I think you're right. I don't think it's, I don't know. It, it seems like, you know, if you're watching a video of Tom talking to himself, the implication is that there's no evidence left that any of that actually happened. Right. Right.

[00:47:59] But the, the whole like shining aspect of it, it seems pretty clear. And it reminded me that you and I did, we covered the shining on walking dead cast. And I remember it being a good one. So I'll put a link in the show notes. If anybody's interested in that, that was a fun one to do. And, um, also the, um, the sequel to the shining. It's called, yeah. What is it called? Uh,

[00:48:27] it's the one with the vampires. Yeah. It's so good. Let me look it up. It's so good. I loved it. And that was a, um, to shine. That was a Mike Flanagan. Right. Dr. Dr. Sleep. Dr. Sleep was great. I didn't like it. I loved it. One of the few things of his that I didn't like, and I didn't like the book either. I loved the movie so much. So, um, I should watch it again. Cause everyone says they love it. And I'm,

[00:48:56] I just don't get it. Well, you need to watch it again, pal. I'm just kidding. I like Dr. I mean, Mr. Dr. Flanagan. No, Mr. Flanagan. What's his name? Mike Flanagan. Mike Flanagan. I like Dr. Flanagan. Cause he, uh, he did, uh, Midnight Mass and, um, Haunting of Hill House. And I love those series. And he's doing Carrie right now. That just came out. I haven't watched it, but I have a feeling it's good.

[00:49:26] It's all, all eight episodes are out on like Amazon. Everybody, everybody has been saying how good it is. So yeah. And if he does dark tower, I might want to cover that on a podcast. Cause it's a good thing to do. Someone to do a really good job at that. And I think he's the guy for it. He is the guy for it. He's fantastic. Okay. Anything else? I have one more point. I think. I have one other thing, just really small. I love the ending when Tom, um,

[00:49:55] leaves and Patricia picks him up and says to him, how did it go? And he says, fine. And she doesn't seem all that present. She's not really tuned in. So she just accepts it, but yeah, like, well at the ends when wick shows up and says, I know you saw something, but you're still going to have people stay here. And in my mind, I'm just like, this dude is right. He's coming off a little intense and crazy,

[00:50:24] but he's absolutely right. There's something wrong with the Island. You should not be inviting people here. And, um, yep. And then, you know, Kurt who wants money for his hotel. No, it's totally fine. It wakes like, then you go in the captain suite. And I love how they're just challenging these people to, all right, if you're going to bring other people into this, then you do it. And then the whole thing with Kurt going, he goes halfway in for one second there. See, I stuck, I stuck my leg in. And then the,

[00:50:53] the sheriff counted to 10, actually pretty fast. It wasn't even 10 seconds. And, and then, he's like, I thought you said 10 seconds. So that was a really interesting, fun scene. And yeah, I think it just tailored something to, for some reason that terrified him in particular. Um, who knows what the hell happened in there? Maybe we'll find out someday. That'd be interesting. Why, why it was all fucked up. I mean, he was covering his hands, so it seems like something else came at him in there that he didn't, he wasn't the one doing it.

[00:51:23] Yep. Um, but then the sheriff finds the black mold, which lets Tom go, okay, I had a creepy night, but there's an explanation. So I'm moving forward with my plans, but you can tell he's very rattled about it. Very rattled. Very rattled. He knows. Not enough to stop though. He's got his motivation. Yeah. And we need that or else the series would not. Well, I mean, I guess they could still have a series,

[00:51:48] but it wouldn't be as fun as a series where a bunch of tourists are about to come into a haunted island. Yeah. Uh, I actually did have one called funny little things. Easy to miss, but we already talked about all of them, except when, um, Tom tells Evan that he'll be staying at Ruth's and I was like, what? She's old. And then he goes, Oh, wait, okay. It's fine. And Tom realizes he's concocting something.

[00:52:17] And then they start like bickering back and forth. And Tom's like, I'm going to go pack. And he goes, and don't eat my sandwich. And I just love how the show throws in little curve balls like that to give you a sense of the characters, personalities, and histories. Like you got to watch out for Tom because he'll eat your sandwich, you know, especially in families, you know who those people in your family are that you can't leave food out around them. Nico's definitely one of my, I'll throw him under the bus.

[00:52:45] Like if there's some good food around and you don't want him to eat it, you have to hide it. Oh my God. And he's like 15. So he eats a lot. Yeah. He's tall too. Yeah. He's a tall drink of water. Okay. Uh, did you have any notes? Um, no. Uh, let's see. I had two notes. So sheriff is on the phone with his wife. He, she's wanting to leave. He's putting her off. That just feels like a seed for something to come, but it was notable. Yeah.

[00:53:15] And then one thing I forgot to mention last time when the historical society woman, Jerry was telling this reporter about the history of the Island. She mentioned that the Island was dependent on whaling. And there was an article that said priests eaten by whale and which is not really related, but she said men would be out for years and women would get lonely and pace and wear out the wood in front of the windows of their homes, waiting for the men to come home. And she said most would not. So that's,

[00:53:45] I'm sure why the place is called widow's Bay, even though they never say that outright. Exactly. I just thought it was interesting to throw it in there. Yeah. And, and, um, yeah. And we can talk about that. Remind me about that. When we go to the other section at the end. Okay. The secret section, except we're saying it. So it's really not secret. This existence is not a secret, but what's in there is secret. Was the murderer. Did he kill clowns?

[00:54:15] No, he was murdered dressed as a clown. Okay.

[00:54:45] One thing in the news, Matthew Reese was interviewed by an outlet called the direct. And they said, do you know when season two starts filming? And is that something fans might be able to hope to see by the end of the year or probably a little bit longer? He goes, ah, sadly it'll be 2028. Because we don't start shooting until April of next year. So the writers have only just gone back into the room. I don't think they know what happens yet, which must be terrifying, but yeah,

[00:55:13] we've been told that we start shooting at the end of April in 2027. So they better get a move on. So hopefully I think people have speculated early 2028, but still it's a year more than a year away. Yeah. That's fucked up, man. Oh, well, yeah, it's really, really good. And everything is so well crafted and well done. Yeah. But I remember game of Thrones seasons one through five,

[00:55:42] they were good and they came out once a year. Come on, Apple. Come on. Let's hurry it up. Yeah. They bring it. You know what? We get like a new iPhone every year, right? Yeah. We get like three of them. Okay. We're going into lister feedback. Andy Fisher says, thanks for the recommendation, Jason, great quirky characters and a great story. Well, let's,

[00:56:08] I give Karen all the credit for that because she's the one who suggested it to me, but I'm glad you're digging it. Yay. Uh, Megan Dively Lehman says the whole closing the door and an eons of time passing by in a blink thing. Yeah, that happened to me. The one and only time I ever tried a drug, which was legally as an adult in Amsterdam, which is legal as an adult in Amsterdam. Too bad. I had that timey, why me experience at the end Frank house? And from what I can gather,

[00:56:37] stared at a picture on the wall, blinked and 20 minutes past. Whoa. And walking up those ultra steep secret attic stairs as part of the tour was a bitch. Don't do drugs kids. And don't have hotel black mold. I guess. Yes. I had a time. I had a timey, why me experience once. Wait, I just want to say to Megan that I say the moral of that is don't take shrooms and go to the and Frank house. Yes. No, don't do that. Uh, but also caffeine is a drug. Alcohol is a drug.

[00:57:07] Just saying you've done drugs. I had a timey, whammy experience when I had acupuncture the first time. Um, I was given all the needles and, um, and they said, um, the person who stuck me with the needle said, okay, I'm going to come back in half an hour. And they closed the door and about 10 seconds passed and they opened the door and said, okay. And I was like, that wasn't half an hour. And they're like, yep, that was half an hour.

[00:57:36] It was crazy. So it was sort of like the opposite time. Quickly. Probably a good thing that it was the opposite in that case. Acupuncture. I tried it once and I didn't like it. It just hurt. It didn't do anything. It felt like you were full of needles. Yeah. I was like, ow, ow. Okay. This is going to get relaxing at some point. You had a bad acupuncture. It shouldn't hurt. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It was her first time. So no, I'm just kidding. I don't know.

[00:58:06] Christy P says, loved your first Widows Bay podcast episode. Well, cool. Thank you. May have to fully rewatch. Sorry. Remember the minutiae better. It's delightful to hear you and Karen enjoying a series so much. It's delightful to be enjoying a series with Karen. Uh, and per your chat with Karen re Salem. I went to Salem years ago with my best friend who now lives in Rhode Island. I was visiting her over Halloween. So we just had to go to Salem. What an absolute blast.

[00:58:32] That's the strangest combo of historical slash touristy slash hysterical things to do and see. The witchcraft museum with its bizarre dioramas is worth the trip alone. Well, that's cool. But I noticed you said years ago, so I I've just heard that especially during Halloween, you should at least should not drive there. You need to take a, what do you could take a bus or something? You can take the train to super easy. Yeah. Go to Salem though. Salem is the best.

[00:59:02] There's a wonderful museum there called the Peabody Essex museum. And it's just the world-class museum. It's such a cool place. I mean, there's so much to do in Salem. It's beautiful. The houses are truly old, old, old, old. And just the whole vibe of Salem is fabulous. So I'm so glad you had a good time, Christy. Yeah. This is C4 from Toronto. Wow. I just watched.

[00:59:30] Let me say that crawlspace was giving me huge heebie-jeebies because spiders. My clapping started. I clap when I'm nervous or scared watching stuff. That's funny. That's interesting. I can imagine that. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

[01:00:11] yeah. Yeah. for sure. I also thought when Tom first met William, that would be really scary if William turned out not to be real. And then when William said, Tony Hicks, watch him burn. I had a feeling he was secretly a murderer. Haunted hotel plus creepy music equals the shining. That's true. Moving on to funny lines. I was laughing out loud throughout, such as Tom yelling, stupid hick at wick. I nearly died. Rosemary. He should spend time in the crawl space.

[01:00:41] Kurt could lock him in. Rosemary is not helping him. I know. random dude at the bar saying, don't do it with serious eyes. When Tom said he was going to stay at the haunted hotel, a hotel owner saying really weird words. Sundries honor bar, climate control, the teeth game with only pliers. Can't wait for the pod. Thanks. Yeah. So much. Rachel Teal Edwards says, not yet, not yet, not yet, not yet.

[01:01:11] Run. Hi, Jason, Karen, Eek, Willie. This week's episode is so freaky. Lighter on the humor. We laughed a lot, but those still laugh out loud, funny at times and heavier on the horror. That's true. Heavier than last time. Yeah. I like how almost the whole episode takes place at the end. So by the end as a viewer, I was right there with Tom, get me out of here now. Discovering the black mold is such a great wrench to throwing at the end

[01:01:39] to make us question just a little if the place really is haunted or if it's just totally mold written. And I agree with you. Like, even though I looked it up, mold couldn't do that, but on a TV show, it could. So they could say, uh, actually it was just the mold and that's the TV plot. I hope we get a flashback episode next season about Tom's father. He clearly affected Tom with his horrible stories about the Island and he's probably, Oh yeah. We didn't mention that, that he told him the stories and it seemed to have traumatized Tom. Yeah.

[01:02:09] And he's probably a big part of why Tom refuses to acknowledge the reality of any of it and thinks poorly of some of, or all of the locals. That's a great point. Yeah. Best line. Does my demeanor suggest I just encountered someone in a crawl space? Sheriff is amazing. And I laughed hardest when Rosemary was coming up with the worst ideas for Tom, make him go in the crawl space. The innkeeper could lock him in. Also do Patricia and Tom like share a car? I don't know why they're always writing together, but it makes for some great scenes.

[01:02:39] I was sort of wondering that myself. It's kind of nice, but I feel like that just shows that he doesn't really have any close friends. So he relies on her as his assistant or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't have a car himself. I think that's his car though. So, um, yeah. Why not just take your car and park it there then? That's weird. It is weird. I don't know because when they were driving together in the morning, he was driving the car and she was the passenger. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's her car,

[01:03:08] but she lets him drive. Or they share. Yeah. Yeah. Weird. I don't know. That's the weirdest thing in the show. Now I can't stop thinking about it. Yeah, exactly. Regarding if Tom is kind of an asshole or not. No, I don't think he is. I think he desperately wants the best for this town, but everyone and everything, including the Island itself are constantly working against him. I think he wants something better for his son because this is all his son knows. And by the way, his son did seem pretty excited when Tom said the tourists are coming like that. Oh, they're actually coming.

[01:03:38] Yeah. I do think he enjoys being mayor and would love the glory of being responsible for turning this Island around. And yes, he did have an asshole moment this episode with the wick on the receiving end. But generally speaking, I think he has good intentions and tries his hardest. He's just a little short on patience and a bit arrogant, at least at this point. Yeah. Especially now with podcasting with you, I realized even more, I think this ties a lot into his childhood,

[01:04:07] his father calling him soft, people calling him coward. And so part of not succumbing to the belief that the Island is scary and haunted, I think comes from that place. And I think sometimes that's where people trip themselves up the most and have blind spots is when they have something coming from their childhood. So you can't see clearly what's real, you know? So I would say he's not an asshole, but he's, he's flawed.

[01:04:38] Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, yeah, I think, I think he is well-meaning. I, I'm sort of siding with you, Rachel. No, I think he's well-meaning too, but I don't think he's doing the right thing at all. I think he's doing the wrong thing. Given that the evidence is that there's something crazy going on here and you're inviting people, innocent people into a scary situation. The mayor and jaws. Karen,

[01:05:06] I'm so glad you told us about the real life driftwood. Tom totally mentions the driftwood in the first episode when he gets home right before his heartfelt conversation with Evan about the pullout method. He says, I got you a tuna melt from the driftwood and my brain clocked it because we hadn't been to the driftwood in the show. And the line was a little awkward, but now I know that's because it was the first shout out to the inspirational restaurant. How fun. Yay.

[01:05:35] So this is about a previous, well, I guess episode one, a C four from Toronto said, just finished episode one of the first pod. So nice to hear Karen again, two of you are great together and hearing her happiness. I just haven't heard that since before walking dead season seven, episode one. Ha. Well, you should listen to us talk about pluribus and especially severance. Cause we have a lot of fun with both of those. Yeah. Yeah. If you watch either one of those shows,

[01:06:03] I highly recommend that it's on the wax episodic feed, but thank you. Uh, Matthew Reese, love his work. He's great at playing big creepos. I first saw him as a sex predator in HBO's girls. Oh, he was great in girls that. Yeah. It was just a bottle episode. He was amazing. Yeah. It's a great episode. Then there was his duplicitous character in the Americans. Can't believe Jason hasn't watched it. I did watch the first episode, but it was so many years ago. I can't even remember. Watch it again. Carrie Russell and he are so good together.

[01:06:33] The character he played here reminded me of the one he played when he was dating Moira. Karen will know. Yes. Karen doesn't know. She's not saying anything. Oh no. Moira. Moira isn't, is that character in the Americans? Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. I, I agree. She goes on Steven root. Fabulous. Just binge Barry, which had such well-written characters. Oh, y'all haven't seen Barry. Oh my God. I know. I mean, that's another show I'm really curious about.

[01:07:02] It's such a wild rollercoaster with the psychopath and the world of improv acting, world of improv acting meshing in a hilarious way. I guess that show is done in a, like an improv style or maybe there's improv acting in the show. I'm not sure. I think he becomes, he goes, he goes to an improv class and decides that he wants to do improv. But he's like a hit man or something. I think, right? He's a psycho. But I think he's a hit man, like a paid assassin. Yes. Yeah. Also, I forgot.

[01:07:32] I don't know. He was in office space. You've got my stapler. LOL. Oh my God. Virgil from the walking dead. And then she goes, Betty Gilpin, excited to hear she's in a future episode. Yay. Love her. She keeps her comedic roles so grounded. Nurse Jackie, Mrs. Davis and glow. Yeah. I like her too. Uh, she was in American gods. She was really good in that. That was the first thing I saw her in. Did you watch Mrs. Davis? A little bit. It was interesting. Yeah. Me too. I could have kept watching,

[01:08:01] but these days I'm so busy that unless I'm really, really hooked in, I can easily drift off and forget about a show. Yeah. Me too. But if I'm really hooked in, I'll make the time. Um, about to watch the second episode. Thanks for putting spoilers in the end section. I'm not listening to those. I learned my lesson with the spoiler section during your coverage of the last of us. You weren't so many times that you weren't going to spoil something. Y'all know what I mean. And I listen anyway. Uh, I was so sad. We live and learn, huh?

[01:08:31] Cool. Yeah. If you, I mean, I imagine sometimes people coming back and listening to those afterwards, but I bet you no one ever does. Maybe we should collect them all together or something. All right. That is our show,

[01:08:58] except for the Island secret section at the end in case you want to hear spoilers. But for now, that's it. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thanks everyone. Next episode, Widows Bay season one, episode three, the inaugural swim. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all of our contact information at podcast.com. And if you go there, check out our other podcast.

[01:09:21] There's one coming up that I think fans of Widows Bay may enjoy because we're taking a break from the Walking Dead rewatch on Walking Dead cast. And we're covering the new Friday, the 13th prequel series called crystal Lake. It comes out October 15th, all eight episodes on Peacock. And it stars Linda Cardellini as Pamela Voorhees. And it's written by, it's done by Brad Caleb Kane who did welcome to dairy. And it's,

[01:09:49] it's not like this. We, I've seen the first few episodes cause we have a screeners and it's got, it's surprising. It's like a psychological drama. It's got black humor in it. There's one scene in particular that I know you love. It's kind of like an evil dead feeling parts, but it's also very heartfelt and warm. It's really surprising. It's, it's interesting. Yeah. I think, I think people who give it a chance are really going to like it a lot. Me and Jamie and Nathan are covering it.

[01:10:18] We had a blast covering the first two episodes. Fabulous. I, you know what? I have to watch it. Um, I really like Linda Cardellini. She's great in this. You're going to freaking love it then. Yeah. She's wonderful. She's a wonderful actress. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Not yet. Not yet.

[01:10:53] Not yet. Okay. It's a Island Secrets. So this is the spoiler section. Um, C4 from Toronto. Thanks for listening. Bye. And anyone else who doesn't want to hear spoilers, you should stop listening now. So what did you wanted me to remind you about? The whale story in the widow's Bay origin story,

[01:11:22] the woman in the historical society talking about the women wearing out the wood. No. Yeah. And of course I forgot what I was going to say about it. I'm exactly the same. I never would have remembered. I learned to make little notes. It's okay. Yeah. Do you have anything else for spoilers? Nope. Nope. Okay. I had a few. Um, let's see. So in the widow's Bay,

[01:11:50] welcome to widow's Bay brochure or whatever guide to widow's Bay that they were flipping through at the beginning. There was a page on Island founder, Richard Warren. It says in 1681, Richard Warren was a merchant pilgrim, a Puritan seeking a new community. There was a wicked storm at sea and the ship sank, leaving Richard to swim to the near shore, which became widow's Bay Island. He was determined to make his undiscovered land his own. And he formed a settlement where widow's Bay township now stands proud and

[01:12:18] lasting with a first wife who died under mysterious circumstances. Some say by Richard Warren's hand, Warren had seven children in 1701. He married a 25 year old woman who traveled from Boston for the engagement named Sarah. When a madness plague affected the Island in 1702, Sarah attempted to leave the something, something the children, but they something, something and died. So I just thought it was interesting that they're telling us the story of that episode,

[01:12:44] but I didn't want to read it in the main part because no one would notice that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Wow. That is like almost exactly what happens later on. Right. They just put it, stuck it in an earlier episode. It's so interesting. The great thing about doing this rewatch is that you can see how well crafted it is, that it's like, it's like a puzzle that's being slowly put together. And yeah, yeah, I love it when,

[01:13:12] when there's like little drops of clues and you can rewatch it and sort of put it together later on. It's delightful. I think Katie Dippold has had this in her mind for years. And I wonder if it's like a recording artist who tries to make it in the business for a long time and then comes out with their first album and it's amazing. And then they have to come up with a second album that they've never thought of. I hope it's not like that. I hope she has more stuff. I think it's, I mean,

[01:13:41] it feels like they know what they're doing. You know, I bet she has an ending in mind. I hope so. If you write with the ending in mind, you can really, I think, make it better. That's what they learned with Lost. Yeah. And Breaking Bad. And I wonder if anyone's ever asked her that in an interview. We should try it just for the hell of it to get her for an interview. We should. So related to that story, the painting of the kids in the hotel huddled in the boat with a fog.

[01:14:11] That's the same thing. That's the story of when this, she tried to escape with the kids. They say it right there. Yep. Yeah. Betty Gilpin. And then last thing, this could sort of hint at where the series could go from here. So we get, this is a huge spoiler. If you're listening and you don't want spoilers, you probably don't want to hear this, but if you don't care, then here it is. So we get an idea why the Reverend locked up the bell because this island

[01:14:40] entity or whatever it is wants a sacrifice. When it wants a sacrifice, it rings the bell. And the townspeople are supposed to sacrifice the number of people of the told, how many times it rings. And if they don't, then the supernatural disasters continue. And so I think he chained it up because he was hoping that would prevent it from ringing and they wouldn't have to sacrifice anyone. But, um, in this episode, it rings nine times.

[01:15:07] And then in the final episode of the season, Kenny is taken down to that room and sacrificed. And the bell rings again, eight times. So I think that means, okay, you gave me one, but I need eight more. I wanted nine. But another guy dies. He's sort of taken up in the, in a, in a, like a tour at the, the, the island shaman is outside.

[01:15:35] And he's sort of taken up in the, in the tornado, the little, little twister sort of sucks them up. I think the, uh, I read this, but I don't remember it. The Reverend dies too. He does die. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that it doesn't count unless you're strapped to this chair in the room where the, those big metal doors are, that's the only sacrifice that counts. So that doesn't mean I was thinking, yeah, actually I was thinking, okay, that means maybe for the rest of the series,

[01:16:04] eight more people will die, but it, it doesn't mean that it means maybe eight more people will be taken down to the sacrifice room, but other people could die in other ways. Right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And, uh, and don't try to make them feel any better because the fear actually makes them taste a little bit better. And then you remember that part? I don't, it sounds familiar, but why do we care? Maybe if they are super afraid, it might count as two people.

[01:16:34] Like a double. Wouldn't that be good? Then you really try to be freaking them out, freaking them out. I mean, I don't see how you could be any more scared if you're about to be sacrificed to, to the island, some demon entity or something. Wants to eat you. Yeah. No. On that note, have a great weekend, everybody. See you next time. you you you you you Awesome.