“Follow Me My Friend / To Glory at the End” (Agatha All Along S1E8) and “Maiden Mother Crone” (S1E9)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah!

[00:00:05] Hmm...

[00:00:34] Then take him. You can't. If Billy is killed, he'll reincarnate again and then you'll lose him. You need him to turn himself in. I can arrange that. I can get him to the finish line and deliver him to you.

[00:01:20] In exchange for...

[00:01:22] If I deliver Billy, you let me go.

[00:01:38] You will eventually die, Agatha.

[00:01:43] But I want you to stop pursuing me. I want you to stop making my life hell. And when I die...

[00:03:01] Hey everybody! Welcome to Marvel TV Cast from Podcastica. I'm Penny.

[00:03:06] And I am Jim and today we're gonna be talking about Agatha All Along. Finally! Season 1, Episode 8, Death's Hand in Mine, and Episode 9.

[00:03:16] The series finale? Maiden Mother Crone.

[00:03:22] Oh, I'm so excited. It's been so long. It's been so long!

[00:03:26] Yeah.

[00:03:27] So first, some apologies to the listeners who've been waiting for this episode to drop.

[00:03:32] We just had a series of obstacles come up that kept delaying recording and we just couldn't get a time together and then Jim's laptop died.

[00:03:42] So we're here finally. And I actually think it's good that we had a little time to let our thoughts on the finale simmer because my opinion is different now from what it was right after it aired. How about you?

[00:03:56] Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. I've watched the episode twice, both episodes twice instead of the normal, I'd say three or four times.

[00:04:09] And I would say my appreciation. I do have some little picks about the episodes that I think could have been fixed easily.

[00:04:20] And I'm not really sure about that. But I would say that my appreciation for what they did in those last two episodes as a wrap up was pretty fantastic.

[00:04:30] I, where I don't, I, and I can never tell with a series ender because I loved this show so much up to the last two episodes that I was bound to be disappointed that it was over.

[00:04:43] Um, and, and, but I would say that I liked very much where all of the characters ended up and I'm hopeful that we will see some of them again.

[00:04:56] So, so yeah, I definitely feel like my opinions have changed. Although I don't know that in the grand scheme of things a lot, but, um, I definitely liked them more than I did after I initially watched.

[00:05:10] Yeah. At first I was actually very frustrated and upset with the finale. Um, I didn't like episode eight ending.

[00:05:21] I didn't like the whole, um, scene between death and Agatha and Billy. And I felt like, like everything up until the moment when Agatha finishes the trial and like opens those basement doors and comes out all of that.

[00:05:37] I thought was fantastic right up through that. And then the next scene, I was like, what is this written by different people?

[00:05:44] It's so, it doesn't feel the same. It, it didn't work the same to, for me, everything felt like the characters were slightly not who they usually were. And, um, it, it just didn't work for me. Uh, and then, um, we, we texted the night that it dropped and you were like, I'm going to go ahead and watch episode nine. So I was like, all right, then I am too.

[00:06:05] And, um, I have mixed feelings about episode nine, but it felt more of a whole with the rest of the series. There was just that one scene. I just didn't, I didn't like it. I'm happier with it now than I was then. I was, I was mad that first night.

[00:06:22] Let's just get, I just want to let me, let me, let me get my nitpick. So I, I, the second time that I watched this, um, I watched them both and I thought, and I didn't try this out, but I thought, I wonder how I would feel about the two episodes. If I flip flop them.

[00:06:40] And I watched episode nine is episode eight. And I watched episode eight is episode nine. And I just feel like, I, I feel like they should have told that story before the finale. Like I, her story is so imperative to everything else that happens, including everything that happened in episode eight.

[00:07:05] That I think it might've had a different impact on me. Had we watched Agatha's backstory and then watched the series finale being episode eight. I do agree with you to an extent about that scene. It definitely felt different. I started feeling very strange about the characters. Um, they were less complex to me because they started what they were doing to me is they were giving you, okay, villain kind of villain and good guy.

[00:07:35] And it felt very marvel. And it felt very marvel to me. Um, but I'm not going to lie when Wiccan comes out of nowhere, all suited up. I w I, I popped a little bit. I was like, Ooh, there he is. There he is. Yay. But yeah, I, I just, yeah, that was pretty great. I, I, and the music I thought was, was the music that they played in that seat at that specific scene.

[00:08:00] When, you know, when, you know, death in her full death persona, like the music they played for Rio and the music that they played for Wiccan specifically, like it just, um, it hit all the right notes for me.

[00:08:14] So, so yeah. So I, I just, I think, I think I struggled with the order of the episodes, which I, it's probably just a fickle, just a fickle complaint because.

[00:08:23] No, I think you're right that, that they should have rearranged some stuff and, um, well, let's just, uh.

[00:08:35] Yeah. We're, we're getting ahead of ourselves. We're getting, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Let's talk about, let's first talk about the stuff while they're still on the road.

[00:08:44] Yeah. Let's finish off the road. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Jennifer and Billy William have this interesting moment where they talk about Lillia's death and they compare notes about, about Rio being death and that Agatha used to date death.

[00:09:00] And, and, um, it, it's funny because from the very beginning when Jennifer first met Billy, she was sort of like, what is this? Another, you know, sacrificial lamb for you, Agatha. And then like at the beach house, she tried to warn him. I, I think Jen is mostly a really good person.

[00:09:24] Yes. Right. Yeah. And that's why she's, you know, quote the path forward unquote and, and her connection with Billy in that moment. And sort of through the whole show is interesting to me for the future.

[00:09:35] I, I think that he, he, he is going to go on to be in the MCU in other ways. And I'm hoping that that means she will as well.

[00:09:45] I, I worry about her character to be sincere because, you know, we talk about Agatha being, you know, a tertiary character in the MCU. Jen's character is.

[00:09:57] Yeah. Even another lower layer below that, but I think they made her really interesting and she has a connection with Billy and she has like a hatred for Agatha that is completely justified.

[00:10:14] Oh.

[00:10:14] And so I'm just hoping that that comes back into play somehow. It, she's, she's so good.

[00:10:23] So Shisir Zamata is so magnetic on screen.

[00:10:25] Yes.

[00:10:26] And her story is so interesting. I, I just, I, I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful.

[00:10:32] I think that the potential for Shisir Zamata to be, come a star is high.

[00:10:45] She's so talented in a show that had seen Steelers and Catherine Han and Aubrey Plaza and Joe Thorne.

[00:10:57] And she, to me was the absolute scene stealer of all scenes, scene stealers because nobody saw her coming.

[00:11:08] And the fact that she's the one that lived to the end, her story was, I think I, there's more there to tell.

[00:11:19] And you wonder if Jack Schaefer left it out of the series on purpose so that someone goes, Hey, that would be a great spinoff. She's a star now.

[00:11:30] I don't know, but her flying away at the end gave me hope that, that there was more story to tell with her.

[00:11:36] And also, it feels like Jack Schaefer was doing some things at the end of that episode to hopefully, I mean, I'm not even talking about the end of episode nine, but like, I really feel like there's hope that there might be in some form or fashion, a second.

[00:11:53] Or I guess we could say third. Now, if we want to connect this to WandaVision, some, something more connective, or we can see some of these characters again, that aren't necessarily the bigger characters, because as they, they said in every interview after the series was over, Agatha was not on the, you know, WandaVision, the end of WandaVision.

[00:12:11] And Agatha was not part of the plan at all. And then when, when Agatha became part of the plan, they didn't really know what to do with it. Even while they were filming it, they didn't know when to release it. They didn't know what to do with it. But I think now they've got their hands.

[00:12:26] I mean, it's been a huge success. Huge success. And Marvel has been coy in interviews, Paul Feige, Jack Schaefer, Catherine Hahn, all of them have been sort of diplomatic and coy, and saying things like, well, it's certainly open. And well, it would be exciting if, you know, I think that everyone is probably on the same page of like, we got to bring this character back.

[00:12:56] And people seem to like this witch stuff. This is all cool, but no decisions have been made. They don't know exactly what's going to happen next. You know, that they have this like amazing success on their hands, they have to capitalize on it. That's just how capitalism works. But I don't think any decisions have been made. So they're just all, you know, they're all Scott Gimpling all over the place, just like not telling us anything real. But I don't blame them. That's, that's totally fine. There's no way they would know right now, right? It's way too fast.

[00:13:24] I don't want them to give me a show or a movie that they have already figured out since Halloween to now, right? Like that's going to be a crappy show. I want them to take their time and come back with something really cool.

[00:13:37] Yeah. Well, and you have to imagine that Jack Schaefer didn't go into this without having ideas on other things that she wanted to do. I think the fact that Vision Quest, which is next, which she initially, I think was going to be the showrunner for, she would, which wasn't, I mean, that was something that they had planned to do even without her.

[00:13:58] Or the fact that she got pulled off that or she pulled herself off of that to work on whatever it is she was working on. And, you know, you can speculate all you want, whether it's a new Wanda movie or whether it's another series, which is what I kind of think.

[00:14:11] I mean, she and her partner are also the go-to songwriters for Pixar. So they're not short on work.

[00:14:18] Correct. Yeah. Well, I just, I'm so excited. The series, I mean, and I, you know.

[00:14:25] Oh, I mean, oh, I got, I got Jack Schaefer mixed up with the songwriter. That's silly of me.

[00:14:30] That's, that's.

[00:14:32] But.

[00:14:32] Sorry, everyone.

[00:14:33] No, I think that, I think that as, as we, when you step out of this show and you, you think about what Jack Schaefer did as the showrunner.

[00:14:43] She directed a couple of the episodes. All of the other directors were female. The cast was loaded with females or LGBTQ plus.

[00:14:52] It was an avant-garde series, which I hope in, in many ways, you know, we are also part of the, um, the Buffy, uh, still slaying podcast.

[00:15:05] And I think you look back on that show and realize how avant-garde that show was for its time. This one burst through doors.

[00:15:13] People watched it and loved it. And it pretty much stayed free and clear of most of the angst of whoever has angst about these shows that have female leads or shows that have, um, LGBTQ plus leads.

[00:15:28] And, and it, it just, it stood above it. And it's, it's known for when people talk about the show, they're going to talk about how great the acting was, how great the characters were, how they did it at a bare bones cost. It was the cheapest show ever made by Disney.

[00:15:43] And.

[00:15:44] And the song.

[00:15:45] I mean, the song is so wildly popular.

[00:15:50] I.

[00:15:50] So many different genres.

[00:15:52] Humming it.

[00:15:52] Yes.

[00:15:53] All over the place. It's getting remixed all over the place. I've, my favorite videos are videos of little kids singing it. And the parents are like, is my child trying to open the witch's road? And the kid is like down the road, down the road. And it's just so cute.

[00:16:08] It's catchy as anything. There's so much fan content being created out there by people who just love the show. And I, I love an enthusiastic fan base who's like dressing up as the characters.

[00:16:21] And there's a lot of people who dance to the song. There's just a lot of videos I've seen of people dancing to the witch's road song. And it's, it's bringing a lot of joy in the world. And for the gay community, the queer community, it is like giving them like breath and life.

[00:16:37] Like the way that queer creators are talking about this on Instagram and TikTok and all these places is like, I have been waiting my whole life for a show like this. You know, like they're, they're so excited. This is like Christmas, 4th of July, birthday, Halloween, Halloween, Halloween, New Year's Eve and Halloween all wrapped up together with pride.

[00:17:01] Like it's just like big rainbow ribbon around it.

[00:17:06] There, I, I'm so happy for them.

[00:17:09] Yes.

[00:17:10] Right? Like, I know how it feels to, to feel like I'm getting representation on screen. And as a straight woman, you know, white woman, I got it way before a lot of other people I was getting representation.

[00:17:21] But it wasn't until the 90s that I started feeling like the female characters on TV were real people.

[00:17:31] And, and I know what that meant to me in the 90s when it started happening. And I was like, wow, Dana Scully, like she's a real person. She's interesting.

[00:17:39] Um, Buffy is like, she's just, she's not a two dimensional character. She's not just pretty. Like, this is amazing.

[00:17:47] So I can only imagine how it feels for a queer person to be like, look at all these lesbians on screen together. Like, this is amazing.

[00:17:57] Like, yeah, they must be so happy and they seem really happy. And then the show for the show to be a success. And it just it's like, it's like when the Barbie movie was such a huge success.

[00:18:07] And everybody was like, maybe movies that star women can make money. And it's like, stop making us prove this over and over again.

[00:18:16] So like, yeah, it's really dumb. So I'm thrilled for the success of the show. I still am disappointed by some stuff in episode eight and nine.

[00:18:26] Yeah, well, let's let's let's get into that. I um,

[00:18:29] There's that scene between Rio and Agatha, where Agatha has like gotten ahead of Billy and Jen on the trip on the road, right?

[00:18:38] And she runs into to Rio and they have this this conversation that I, I didn't completely understand where Agatha is like lots of bodies, just like I promised.

[00:18:47] And I'm like, when did she promise that? Is there a conversation between those two that we didn't get to see? That's frustrating. I don't like it when they play hide and seek with like a major character revelation.

[00:18:58] And if you are going to do that, then we should have gotten to see like or know more about what happened when that promise was made.

[00:19:04] Yeah.

[00:19:05] Or was it just that she said, like, people were going to die in this on the road, like flippantly at one point, but then we should have seen that happen anyway.

[00:19:12] Yeah, I think that whole theme was like an illusion through an allusion throughout the series. And I do agree. Like, I think that part of the story, because we're given some backstory on like death that like Agatha was part of that clearly death was part of too, but we don't really none of that. That's the one thing that they don't really never fleshed it out.

[00:19:36] Yeah. So like, we never got to see Agatha and death working together when they were together. We never got to see them together. Like, I feel like I missed an episode.

[00:19:48] You give us the Titanic. You give us the Hindenburg. You give us this connection. And we got to see basically their breakup. Right. We got to see when she has Nikki and and death is like, oh, I can offer you this time. And and then she promises to hate her forever if she takes Nikki away from her.

[00:20:07] And then she does take Nikki away from her. And then she hates her forever. And it's like, except we didn't get to see them together. Yeah. So so so yeah. So that was that was in 17, whatever, 53 years.

[00:20:18] Yeah. So what has happened in the last 300 years? Agatha says, you know, the the trade she makes with death is that if she gets gives her Billy, that she'll leave Agatha alone because she's been making her life a torment. I'm like, what has she been doing? Why has she been doing it? Why? So if they broke up, so death says she was she loved Agatha and that this she had to take Nikki away and it made Agatha hate her. Right.

[00:20:45] Why then is and death wants to kill Agatha or wants to see Agatha dead. Why? Yeah. I thought it was so that Agatha would could be with her or would be with her. Right. But but then at the end, it seemed like she wanted to like torment Agatha.

[00:21:03] And Agatha said, for the last 300 years, you've been tormenting me. Is that just like sour grapes for being rejected? That's so frickin petty and childish.

[00:21:12] Yeah. And it it didn't track with the like I'm heart sick. She is my scar. Like those things don't go together for me, which is how they played it.

[00:21:23] That's definitively how the act actors played it throughout the series, which doesn't play out at all at the end.

[00:21:30] And it turns into kind of a typical Marvel battle where you have a big bad versus.

[00:21:36] Again, a kind of another person. Yeah. And it was it was I was very conflicted watching that.

[00:21:44] I was like, why is she so gleeful about this? Why is she like, ha ha ha ha ha death by a thousand cuts?

[00:21:50] Like the whole thing seemed like a different like an entirely different character.

[00:21:55] I didn't I thought that whole scene with Rio, the makeup was amazing. The costume was amazing.

[00:22:00] But like the lines didn't ring true for me. I'm the natural order of all things.

[00:22:05] Baby. I was like, she wouldn't say baby. It's weird.

[00:22:09] Like she wouldn't be so like.

[00:22:12] Gleeful about killing her former lover after acting this whole time like what she really wanted was for her lover to come back to her.

[00:22:19] But it didn't it didn't make sense to me.

[00:22:24] So this is where you wonder.

[00:22:26] I think the one of the best parts of this show, this series.

[00:22:32] Is we've talked about it from episode one.

[00:22:35] Who's the bad guy?

[00:22:37] And who's the who's the maybe bad phrasing there?

[00:22:41] Like who is the villain?

[00:22:43] Who's and I mean, they told us it's Agatha all along.

[00:22:47] Yeah. But the nice thing about this series is much like you talk about queer characters, you talk about.

[00:23:00] Villains.

[00:23:03] It felt to me as more of the show kept going.

[00:23:06] I was like, this isn't really about a good guy, a protagonist and an antagonist.

[00:23:11] This is about a story with complicated characters.

[00:23:15] And it felt.

[00:23:16] Well, and I felt this way with WandaVision with that last episode with Agatha's battle with WandaVision.

[00:23:22] It didn't sort of fit.

[00:23:24] You kind of it just you wonder like it was a big tone change.

[00:23:28] Yeah.

[00:23:28] You wonder where does Marvel step in and say, OK, we need to have our fight now.

[00:23:32] And and I there were parts of it that I liked.

[00:23:39] For example, I liked that Agatha.

[00:23:43] We do at the tail end of it get come start to pull back into Jack Schaefer's story where Agatha acts as though she.

[00:23:55] Well, no, she doesn't act.

[00:23:56] She she gives up.

[00:23:58] She gives up Wiccan.

[00:23:59] She gives up Billy.

[00:23:59] She starts to walk away.

[00:24:02] He tells her, you know, he reminds her of her son.

[00:24:06] And and you see that turn.

[00:24:08] She almost comes back to Earth in a sense.

[00:24:11] And she gives up herself for for Billy, which she didn't get.

[00:24:18] She didn't get a chance to do for her son.

[00:24:21] And it does sort of come back to that.

[00:24:24] And the line where she was where she was dying.

[00:24:28] And she's you know, she's like, I can't beat death here.

[00:24:30] And I just I absolutely love that that part of it where we get to see it more tied down to Earth.

[00:24:36] But again, the whole relationship between death and Agatha.

[00:24:40] Yeah.

[00:24:41] It didn't finish the way that that I really wanted it to because you end up with two characters who were just more playing.

[00:24:48] I hate you as opposed to what that complex issue that they were playing all throughout that was confounding and frustrating and everything that love is.

[00:24:57] And we didn't get that finish.

[00:25:00] We got Agatha.

[00:25:01] It was something shallower.

[00:25:03] Yes.

[00:25:04] Yes.

[00:25:04] We have to have our battle.

[00:25:05] And here it is.

[00:25:07] And Billy gets to walk away.

[00:25:10] And, you know, then we get the Spectre version of Agatha, which we can get to in a little bit.

[00:25:16] But yeah, I would agree that that that was and I was sort of but to be fair.

[00:25:22] I was waiting for something like that.

[00:25:24] I was waiting for some big swings and some CGI.

[00:25:27] And and that's where I guess we got the most.

[00:25:30] Yeah, I knew we were going to get like a big explosive, you know, scene as part of either episode eight or nine.

[00:25:38] But I really it was that it didn't ring true for me emotionally.

[00:25:44] I also am just not a fan of scenes where people have like power and they just blast at each other with power.

[00:25:51] I'm like, what is that magic?

[00:25:52] Just blast magic.

[00:25:54] Like what is every Marvel superhero have some ability to blast people with something from their hands?

[00:25:59] It's just it gets old.

[00:26:02] It was my main problem with the Doctor Strange multiverse of madness scenes with Agatha.

[00:26:09] There were some that were so cool where she was using like the mirrors and stuff.

[00:26:13] Yeah, but there was also like a lot of scenes where she was just like throwing fireballs or whatever.

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:17] Powerballs at people.

[00:26:23] I want to talk about the trial in the morgue.

[00:26:27] Oh, so so let's talk about like difference.

[00:26:30] Like because that scene.

[00:26:34] Both the Jen side of it and the Billy side of it, I thought especially the Billy side.

[00:26:41] There's this specific.

[00:26:43] Powerful, right?

[00:26:44] Oh, yeah.

[00:26:45] Oh, I mean, yes.

[00:26:47] Because again, you're watching Agatha.

[00:26:51] We get Agatha with Jen kind of being the flippant Agatha.

[00:26:55] And then we watch Agatha with Billy where you can see her earnestly, earnestly helping him.

[00:27:02] Earn it like.

[00:27:02] Yeah.

[00:27:03] Completely going against what she said.

[00:27:05] And demonstrating.

[00:27:05] Yes.

[00:27:07] Demonstrating a deep knowledge of him and an understanding of how his magic works, which he doesn't even have.

[00:27:15] Yes.

[00:27:16] And the empathy and attention that that takes is phenomenal.

[00:27:21] There is a line at one point where Rio says, I watch you as closely as you watch everyone else.

[00:27:25] And I was like, Agatha is displaying a thing that many complex trauma survivors developed, which is this hyper vigilance and ability to read other people.

[00:27:36] Sure.

[00:27:37] She uses these powers for evil.

[00:27:39] But other people who have CPSD and survived what I assume was her abusive mother.

[00:27:46] From what we saw, I think that mother was very abusive.

[00:27:50] They develop an ability to read other people because it becomes a survival necessity.

[00:27:56] And so she has that.

[00:27:57] She just uses it most of the time for scamming people.

[00:28:00] But when she used it with Billy, it was like we saw who Agatha could be.

[00:28:08] All those times when she said, I could be good, that was who she could be.

[00:28:13] Like really deeply helping somebody else and guiding him to use his powers.

[00:28:19] Now, whether or not bringing Tommy back is a good or bad thing, I have no idea how to judge that.

[00:28:25] That's like cosmic justice stuff.

[00:28:27] But the way she guided him and helped him was powerful.

[00:28:33] Even without using magic to do it.

[00:28:35] That whole scene.

[00:28:36] And that's what makes Agatha's character so wonderful because as we've said many times, she is the big bad in many ways in every show that she's been in so far.

[00:28:45] But when she's not, when we get to see her care like she did in this scene.

[00:28:54] And this scene was so how they filmed it was beautiful.

[00:28:57] This again, the panning around.

[00:29:00] And I got to give you props, Penny, because there was a scene in this part of the show that now has me convinced we're going to see a dual role.

[00:29:10] And that was the scene that we see the camera that's panning around.

[00:29:15] Gosh, those close scenes on Billy.

[00:29:17] But we see the one scene where it's on his left side and it's Billy.

[00:29:23] And then they're talking about Tommy and it pans to his right side.

[00:29:26] And I was like, well, son of a B.

[00:29:29] They just they just gave a hint there.

[00:29:32] And I don't know if that's what listen, this could have been Jack Schaefer putting that in there just in case.

[00:29:38] But I do.

[00:29:39] I do think that there's a potential if we can get if we get a Wiccan show, if.

[00:29:45] Oh, the thought of him playing.

[00:29:47] Yeah.

[00:29:47] Completely different roles.

[00:29:49] One where he's been with this loving family.

[00:29:53] And Tommy, who's clearly been bullied his entire life.

[00:29:59] Oh, I the chill bumps.

[00:30:01] It doesn't.

[00:30:02] But that that scene was so beautiful.

[00:30:04] And listen, when Billy says Billy says to her and the and the people, the family, there's no one to love him.

[00:30:12] She's talking about Tommy.

[00:30:14] Yeah, he's got no one.

[00:30:16] Agatha.

[00:30:17] Am I killing this boy so my brother can live?

[00:30:19] And I'm like, I can't even really say this.

[00:30:20] I'm getting a little weepy.

[00:30:21] And Agatha is like, and Agatha and her, in my opinion, and all of the episodes Agatha has been in her most grounded moment.

[00:30:29] And Catherine Hahn, my God, if she doesn't win an Emmy for this, it says, no, Billy.

[00:30:39] Sometimes boys die.

[00:30:41] And I mean, I just.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:44] It was heartbreaking.

[00:30:46] So I and then Billy disappears.

[00:30:49] And I'm like, I'm like, no, no, no more Billy.

[00:30:53] No.

[00:30:54] And I'm in my head thinking, wait, there's a whole nother episode.

[00:30:56] Where are we going with this?

[00:30:58] And yeah.

[00:31:00] Anyways, I.

[00:31:01] And then the whole scene with her with the locket.

[00:31:03] And again, I talk about how this is one of the scenes where I think.

[00:31:10] Even though finding out later why that dandelion.

[00:31:16] Was so important.

[00:31:18] And I think having seen it already would have made that scene even better.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:24] Specifically for that.

[00:31:26] But and maybe maybe you played across two episodes where you're flashing back and forth.

[00:31:31] And listen, if you're listening to this, I am not trying.

[00:31:35] Listen, Jack Schaefer is masterclass.

[00:31:37] I am not a better.

[00:31:39] But I.

[00:31:41] We're talking about the difference between an A plus and an A.

[00:31:44] Right.

[00:31:45] Yes.

[00:31:45] We're talking about like things that we think could have been better.

[00:31:51] But the show as a whole is still phenomenal.

[00:31:53] Yeah.

[00:31:54] Yes.

[00:31:55] Well, I.

[00:31:56] I.

[00:31:59] I think in wrapping up any Marvel series, you're going to have.

[00:32:03] Fingerprints that aren't just your own.

[00:32:05] But I don't.

[00:32:06] Yeah.

[00:32:06] I can't think of any other Marvel show.

[00:32:10] That has given.

[00:32:12] As much rain to what happens from episode to episode is Jack Schaefer has.

[00:32:17] If we have to put up with a 15 minute, five minute, 10 minute, however long that segment

[00:32:23] was to get this kind of show time and time again.

[00:32:27] I'm all.

[00:32:27] I'm willing to pay that price.

[00:32:28] I'm all for it.

[00:32:29] That's a toll.

[00:32:30] I sure hope they learned this lesson before they filmed Daredevil coming up, because if

[00:32:36] they do Daredevil like that, they got.

[00:32:39] Anyways, I don't want to get sidetracked, but I just I.

[00:32:42] Yeah.

[00:32:42] So so to me, again, this scene and then the scene with Jen where.

[00:32:49] Oh, the bite.

[00:32:49] First of all, Jen calls her a nonstop sociopath.

[00:32:53] And I was like, well, at first I was like, yeah, Jen is very consistent in in thinking

[00:33:00] that Agatha is just a horrible person.

[00:33:02] And then after watching episode nine, I was like, she is a nonstop sociopath.

[00:33:07] Yes.

[00:33:07] Jennifer was 100 percent accurate about all of it.

[00:33:09] And everything she said about about Agatha, except she didn't trade her kid for the dark

[00:33:15] home.

[00:33:15] But everything else.

[00:33:17] Yeah.

[00:33:17] She's right.

[00:33:18] Nonstop sociopath.

[00:33:19] But I just thought that was a great insult to the use of nonstop.

[00:33:23] That whole that whole interaction, though, because I didn't see that coming at all.

[00:33:29] I didn't.

[00:33:29] I'm like, but yeah, the doctor.

[00:33:32] I didn't.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:33] Agatha selling the binding potion.

[00:33:35] I.

[00:33:35] Yeah.

[00:33:35] And the way she was like, oh, I didn't know you were in Boston in the 20s.

[00:33:39] Yeah.

[00:33:39] When she when when she when Jen when Jen first says to her, like that doctor in Boston didn't

[00:33:46] take anything away from me.

[00:33:47] I gave it up.

[00:33:48] And then Agatha goes.

[00:33:49] Hmm.

[00:33:50] Hmm.

[00:33:50] And I was like, wait, wait, immediately.

[00:33:54] I'm like, holy cow.

[00:33:57] Yeah.

[00:33:58] Yeah.

[00:33:58] The the and then Billy realizes it later on.

[00:34:02] He's like, you're the one who bound her.

[00:34:03] And Jen firmly upset.

[00:34:05] You kept me like this for 100 years.

[00:34:08] And she's and Agatha again, being Agatha.

[00:34:10] I didn't know it was you.

[00:34:12] It was the 1920s.

[00:34:13] I did the odd spell for banknotes.

[00:34:15] I don't know.

[00:34:16] Well, the patriarchy really shelled out to shush a lady.

[00:34:20] It was binder burn.

[00:34:23] And Jen's like 100 years like feeling the pain.

[00:34:26] And Agatha's like, this is so awkward.

[00:34:32] And then the scene right after that, where Jen walks up to her, rips off a piece of her

[00:34:38] hair and bounce her with her hair.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:41] And again, in Jack Schaefer, when she uses repetition, my God, is it powerful?

[00:34:49] And you hold nothing.

[00:34:51] You hold nothing.

[00:34:52] And she keeps repeating it over and over again.

[00:34:54] And you could feel just your Zomata feeling it.

[00:34:58] And it came off so well.

[00:35:00] And I'm like, again, another one of those moments where I was like, oh, my God.

[00:35:03] And yeah, what a journey she went through in those moments of reclaiming her power and

[00:35:12] dignity.

[00:35:14] And then when she sort of lets go and takes a slight step back and you realize like, oh,

[00:35:23] she's getting her power back and then she disappears.

[00:35:26] Yeah.

[00:35:26] You're like, are we at the end of the that's the end of the road?

[00:35:31] Like, oh, my God.

[00:35:34] Yeah.

[00:35:34] It was amazing.

[00:35:35] It was amazing.

[00:35:37] And so you wonder, you wonder, like, was the end of this episode supposed to be that scene?

[00:35:49] I don't know.

[00:35:50] And then everything else into episode nine after that?

[00:35:53] Like, I kind of wish the episode had ended with Agatha coming out of that basement and

[00:36:00] looking around and like maybe seeing death.

[00:36:03] And that was like a cliffhanger ending.

[00:36:05] Yeah.

[00:36:05] Like, I kind of wish that episode eight had been cleaner and had been just like the end

[00:36:10] of the road story.

[00:36:12] And then everything else was in episode nine.

[00:36:14] But there's again, there's a nitpick.

[00:36:16] A better finish that doesn't involve a battle where the battle is more mental between Rio

[00:36:26] and Agatha.

[00:36:28] And it doesn't involve throwing magic at each other.

[00:36:33] And it doesn't even involve Billy.

[00:36:35] I think there would have been a power to that being Billy's last scene until we get the put

[00:36:43] together scene, which comes later.

[00:36:44] The Kaiser Soze scene?

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:46] Yeah.

[00:36:46] The Kaiser Soze scene.

[00:36:47] Yeah.

[00:36:49] And I, yeah, I just, I'm sad because that was lost love.

[00:36:59] The unrequited love.

[00:37:00] You can't be in love with death forever.

[00:37:04] And there was a story to tell there.

[00:37:06] And I don't think we're ever going to get the tail end of that.

[00:37:10] I do think Aubrey Plaza is definitively going to be a part of whatever happens going forward

[00:37:15] with the MCU.

[00:37:16] So I guess you never know.

[00:37:17] But I, I just, I, so that's the, that's the big miss for me.

[00:37:21] Um, yeah.

[00:37:23] I wanted a lot more of, of their backstory.

[00:37:27] I read one interview with Jack Schaefer where she said, we had no idea people were going

[00:37:32] to be so curious about Rio and Agatha's backstory.

[00:37:35] Like, it's amazing to me that within all her wisdom and creativity and insight that she didn't

[00:37:41] predict that, that that was going to feel like a missing piece.

[00:37:45] Oh.

[00:37:45] That we didn't get it.

[00:37:46] Like, I was like, how could you not think we would want that?

[00:37:50] How could you not think that Aubrey Plaza and Catherine Hahn, two close friends, um, Catherine

[00:37:55] Hahn who got Aubrey Plaza to do the show, weren't going to create that kind of amazing tension

[00:38:02] in every moment that they were together.

[00:38:04] Because those seat, the scenes prior to that scene, um, every scene that they're in from

[00:38:09] episode one, all the way to episode eight.

[00:38:13] I even, listen, when she, when she cut through the screen, when she Truman showed.

[00:38:19] Oh my God.

[00:38:20] I love that so much.

[00:38:22] Cutting through the, the painted backdrop.

[00:38:24] I was like, cause it's such a call out to Wizard of Oz the movie.

[00:38:28] Oh yeah.

[00:38:29] Well, I mean, yes.

[00:38:30] And, and I just immediately thought of the end of the Truman show, not the end of the

[00:38:33] Truman show when, when Truman runs the boat into the end, but yeah, such a call back to

[00:38:37] Wizard of Oz.

[00:38:38] I, I just, and I love it.

[00:38:41] I love that part.

[00:38:42] I love that because the show is, you know, you can't talk about Agatha now without talking

[00:38:47] about how the effects were in CGI.

[00:38:48] And here you have almost a, Hey, Hey, all you Marvel shows, we're literally going to cut

[00:38:53] through the, the, the one.

[00:38:55] Yeah.

[00:38:56] So I just, I love that so much.

[00:38:58] And, um, it wasn't quite a fourth wall break because the fake scenery was in the, in story.

[00:39:06] So it, it wasn't, but it was a little bit of a wink to the audience of like, we're not

[00:39:12] breaking the fourth wall, but we're kind of showing you the fourth wall.

[00:39:16] Just so you know.

[00:39:17] Well, and I'm sure, I don't even know if Jack Schaefer was wanting it to be that, but

[00:39:22] as we, by episode three or four, when we all realized what the show was going to be, it

[00:39:27] became, certainly became that, which, which I thought was great.

[00:39:30] Yeah.

[00:39:30] Um, so winky winky.

[00:39:32] Um, all right.

[00:39:33] So Agatha, we've talked about Agatha and Rio's big showdown, Billy showing up to save the day

[00:39:39] in like sort of a classic deus ex machina.

[00:39:42] Like he literally came down from the heavens and lightning was going on, like all the electrical

[00:39:47] boxes were, you know, shooting sparks and everything.

[00:39:51] Um, that was great.

[00:39:52] Like I was like, Oh, could they dress him in like a more of a Greek, Greek look so that

[00:39:58] he would really be the deus ex machina.

[00:40:00] Can they give me wings?

[00:40:01] Like, I don't know.

[00:40:02] It was, it was, I was fine with it though.

[00:40:04] Cause I mean, he was in the story and we knew he had magic, so it's not like it came completely

[00:40:09] out of nowhere.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:10] Um, and then him, him blasting Agatha with his power and trusting her and saying, don't

[00:40:15] take it all was I like, where did he find that trust?

[00:40:20] I.

[00:40:21] And in the disc.

[00:40:22] So is this not a disconnect because she takes his power and stops.

[00:40:30] Yeah.

[00:40:30] She didn't do that with Alice.

[00:40:33] Um, and I.

[00:40:36] So my theory.

[00:40:37] Oh, well.

[00:40:38] I have to deal with the fact that I have been all along an Agatha apologist.

[00:40:44] Right.

[00:40:44] Yeah.

[00:40:45] I wanted so badly to believe that Agatha was not as bad as people said she was and that

[00:40:53] she was deeply misunderstood and lonely.

[00:40:56] And I do think that she's lonely.

[00:40:58] Yes.

[00:40:58] But I also think she's a forking monster.

[00:41:02] Yes.

[00:41:02] And, um.

[00:41:03] Now we know she is, but yeah.

[00:41:06] And I, I, yeah.

[00:41:10] I know.

[00:41:11] I, um.

[00:41:11] If you go back and listen to every episode, we have this conversation in every single episode.

[00:41:17] And I'm like, no, I think she's misunderstood.

[00:41:19] I don't think she killed all those women.

[00:41:21] She did.

[00:41:21] She killed so many people.

[00:41:24] I mean, they, and I mean, this, this whole show is basically just, it could have just

[00:41:31] been one of those little snippets that we get in episode nine of, of one of those covens

[00:41:37] getting.

[00:41:37] I would have watched that progression through the decades forever.

[00:41:41] That was so fun.

[00:41:42] All right.

[00:41:43] Yeah.

[00:41:43] But, um, so my theory about Alice is that, you know, Agatha had been trapped in one dispel

[00:41:50] without any magic of her own for three years and she's on the road and she hasn't had magic

[00:41:55] and she wanted her bad magic and power.

[00:41:57] And when Alice blasted her, she didn't know what was going to happen.

[00:42:01] I think starting to steal the magic from Alice was a reflexive action.

[00:42:06] And then she was like, she was enjoying it.

[00:42:09] She was like, oh my God, it feels so good.

[00:42:10] Kind of like if you're really thirsty and someone gives you water and you start drinking

[00:42:14] and you're like, oh my God, it's the best water I ever had.

[00:42:16] Yeah.

[00:42:16] And, and she got carried away with it and just fell back into her old pattern of take it

[00:42:22] all and kill her.

[00:42:23] Yeah.

[00:42:24] But when Billy said to her before she started taking the power, don't take it all, it kept

[00:42:29] her just a little bit out of the sort of drug ecstasy that she was in when she absorbs

[00:42:36] that power.

[00:42:37] But also I think Billy has way more power than Alice.

[00:42:41] Yeah.

[00:42:41] Oh, for sure.

[00:42:42] So she could still take a lot and not kill him because he had so much.

[00:42:46] But then two minutes later though, she literally was going to walk, you know, she was literally

[00:42:50] going to leave him and die.

[00:42:52] And see, and that was again, another little disconnect.

[00:42:54] And it, it does feel like they were trying to sew some things together there that maybe weren't

[00:42:59] part of the original story.

[00:43:00] I, but I did love that.

[00:43:03] It felt like they wrote backwards from, they were like, we need to make it so that Billy

[00:43:07] says, is this how Nikki died?

[00:43:09] And that that affects Agatha.

[00:43:12] And then they, they sort of made that happen because it felt really forced.

[00:43:17] Like I'll sacrifice myself.

[00:43:18] No, I won't.

[00:43:19] Yes, I will.

[00:43:20] Like whatever.

[00:43:22] Yeah.

[00:43:23] I did think that the, the, at first I was really into the kiss and then the floating

[00:43:28] in the black, like cloud or whatever.

[00:43:31] And then, and the whole death was so beautiful.

[00:43:33] But then, um, I saw somebody say on Instagram, like, great, we finally get our lesbian kiss

[00:43:39] and it kills her.

[00:43:40] And I was like, oh, that is kind of a trope of like, as soon as you give in, then you die.

[00:43:46] And I was like, oh, that sucks.

[00:43:48] Kiss of death.

[00:43:49] Literal kiss of death.

[00:43:51] I'm sorry.

[00:43:52] Because it was really beautifully rendered.

[00:43:55] Right.

[00:43:55] And with the like flowers and mushrooms and everything.

[00:43:58] Her dying.

[00:43:58] Yeah.

[00:43:59] And I, I, well, the thing that I like the most about that is, you know, we Rio sort of being

[00:44:10] written as the original green witch, which makes sense that she's also death because you talk

[00:44:15] about life cycle and you talk about, um, regeneration and we talk about, um, dying and, um, it all

[00:44:24] fits together.

[00:44:24] And I love that scene at the end where she, you know, she dies and she, um, disintegrates

[00:44:31] into those mushrooms and beautiful flowers and beautiful color.

[00:44:35] Of course, mostly purple.

[00:44:36] Um, it was a beautiful, beautiful shot.

[00:44:40] Um, and I do also like the little scene that we get after that with Billy, um, leaving puts

[00:44:49] his hood up.

[00:44:50] And all the neighbors.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:52] All the neighbors.

[00:44:53] I loved the little, the little moment we got with the neighbors where they're like looking

[00:44:57] up at this, like witch battle in the sky and the green lights.

[00:45:01] And they're like, it's happening again.

[00:45:03] God, come on.

[00:45:04] Yeah.

[00:45:04] Um, I moved to New Jersey for a quiet life.

[00:45:08] I, I just want to tend my flowers in my garden.

[00:45:11] We're all going to get enslaved by some crazy witch.

[00:45:14] Like what, what a nightmare to live in Westview.

[00:45:17] I, they must all have just horrific PTSD.

[00:45:20] And wouldn't you leave?

[00:45:22] I would leave.

[00:45:23] But then who would ever buy your house?

[00:45:25] Nobody wants to move into Westview.

[00:45:27] I know.

[00:45:28] Like that town is cursed.

[00:45:29] I mean, look, would I, would I watch, would I watch a 13 episode arc of like, I'm like

[00:45:35] what the hell's going on in Westview?

[00:45:37] You bet.

[00:45:38] You bet.

[00:45:38] I would.

[00:45:39] Cause I want to know what's going on.

[00:45:40] They should do webisodes.

[00:45:41] They should do webisodes with the side characters.

[00:45:44] How amazing.

[00:45:45] When Marvel did those hilarious webisodes where Thor had a roommate in Australia.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:51] And they were so funny and they could do such funny things with the, with the Westview characters.

[00:45:59] Um, did you, so there were little things.

[00:46:05] Did you notice?

[00:46:07] So first of all, I guess where we, we were probably supposed to get like a vision of like

[00:46:14] Wanda coming in when Wiccan came in.

[00:46:18] Yeah.

[00:46:19] There was a, there was a lot of similarities, like the way they hold themselves.

[00:46:22] There was a magneto quality to it though.

[00:46:25] There was a magneto quality to it.

[00:46:27] I don't know if the MCU is going to go there and have magneto be Wanda Maximoff's father.

[00:46:32] Like he is in the.

[00:46:34] Did you see, did you see.

[00:46:36] In some other Marvel comic books, it turns out that he's not her father and that's a fake

[00:46:40] out.

[00:46:41] I just think there's a lot of fun to be had there.

[00:46:43] But if you, and I don't, I don't know enough.

[00:46:48] You may know a little bit more about this.

[00:46:50] And if I'm, I, it looked to me like there was an X on his arm in a circle.

[00:46:57] Um, I've paused.

[00:46:58] Um, there was on his sweater, the sweater that he made himself that had all the like runes

[00:47:03] in it.

[00:47:04] That definitely had an X in a circle.

[00:47:05] So maybe he's going to join the X-Men.

[00:47:08] Well, I just, I, there's so much fun interplay that I think Jack Schaefer, I think that, um,

[00:47:18] the costume designer.

[00:47:19] I can't think of his name.

[00:47:20] Uh, Daniel, uh, something like that.

[00:47:24] Salon.

[00:47:24] Yeah.

[00:47:25] He, he had so much fun with this and I, we could, we could do a whole episode just on

[00:47:35] the costumes and we tried to talk about them a little bit.

[00:47:38] Uh, but his, his Wiccan costume was so awesome.

[00:47:43] I mean, I could just watch that scene of him coming in over and over again, just to look

[00:47:47] at all the little intricacies of that.

[00:47:49] I just, and I, I do think that the one part that I liked about that scene very much, and

[00:47:55] I didn't know, I didn't like that scene until I heard you talk about it.

[00:47:59] But, uh, the costumes were so amazing.

[00:48:03] I, Aubrey Plaza looked amazing.

[00:48:06] And I, and, and Agatha just full on Agatha.

[00:48:10] Uh, I loved that.

[00:48:12] Like, and just trying to take in the three costumes that were in front of us.

[00:48:16] Um, I did a lot of pausing and playing and pausing and playing and rewind and watching.

[00:48:20] And I only watched it twice, but I watched that scene over and over again because they're,

[00:48:24] they're superhero costumes were fan as good as you can see.

[00:48:28] And, uh, I don't know.

[00:48:30] Really cool.

[00:48:30] I, I don't know anything about Daniel Salon at all, but I will tell you something.

[00:48:36] I don't either, except for what I've seen.

[00:48:37] Um, just the article I read about him and then, uh, they did drop the Agatha assembled,

[00:48:43] um, episode.

[00:48:45] This is so weird.

[00:48:46] It's on YouTube.

[00:48:47] It's not on Disney plus.

[00:48:48] I, I don't understand what is happening, but he does have a whole segment in it where

[00:48:53] he gets up close with some of the costumes and, and you get to see like, you know, some

[00:48:58] of the tiny details that really make the costume so meaningful.

[00:49:02] It's, it's super cool.

[00:49:04] And I, I am one of these people, like I could listen to the costume designer for like hours

[00:49:10] and hours and hours.

[00:49:11] Um, I remember after black Panther came out, I was just talking to everybody about the costumes

[00:49:16] and people were like, was it a good movie?

[00:49:17] I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:49:19] But, uh, the costumes were real.

[00:49:21] And they were like, you're so weird about this.

[00:49:23] Um, she did win the Oscar.

[00:49:25] So I'm not alone.

[00:49:29] Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I, um, I liked that Wanda, that Wanda, that Agatha, when she got

[00:49:37] her powers back or got more power, she turned back into the costume she was wearing when she

[00:49:43] fought Scarlet Witch.

[00:49:44] Yes.

[00:49:45] Yep.

[00:49:45] Like it was, um, that's her, that's her like witch, magical witch costume.

[00:49:51] And I, um, I just was like, Hey, I know that costume.

[00:49:55] I have that action figure.

[00:49:56] Like I was like happy to see it.

[00:49:58] Yeah.

[00:49:59] Billy's costume was really cool.

[00:50:01] I liked that his like skinny jeans were like ripped.

[00:50:04] He just looked like also a hip teenager and a superhero at the same time.

[00:50:09] Like it wasn't completely a superhero costume.

[00:50:12] I think of my favorite current superheroes.

[00:50:15] Um, and to be fair, I, I wasn't aware of Wiccan very much, um, through the course of Marvel.

[00:50:22] Um, but I, I love superheroes that look like us and he's, you don't look at, you don't look

[00:50:33] at Joe, you don't look at the actor and you don't look at Wiccan and think immediately

[00:50:37] superhero, but when he had that, when he had that superhero outfit on that superhero suit

[00:50:42] that was so tied into who he was, that was such an homage to, um, you know, I saw a YouTube

[00:50:50] video and it wasn't assembled.

[00:50:51] Although now I think it might've been connected where they talked about escape being connected

[00:50:55] to vision and to, um, uh, Wanda and, and you see him kind of floating in.

[00:51:02] And the fact that, you know, you're thinking some of the most powerful people in

[00:51:07] the MCU, as far as, you know, Magneto and you think of Wanda and you think of, um, vision.

[00:51:13] And, you know, the funny, the funny part about this too, is I found myself at the end of episode

[00:51:18] eight thinking about heritage and thinking about parentage.

[00:51:23] And I, I was thinking very much about, and then especially after episode nine, I think

[00:51:27] the one kind of fun thing that I was, I, they never really explain scrap, Nicholas scratch

[00:51:34] in a sense that who, who was the quote unquote father.

[00:51:39] And I just love the idea that this is the part about the backstory.

[00:51:46] We didn't get that.

[00:51:46] I love, I love that there is a potential that this wasn't like immaculate conception.

[00:51:54] Um, this was, she says she didn't use a spell or an incantation.

[00:51:58] Yeah.

[00:51:59] She made him from scratch.

[00:52:00] Yeah.

[00:52:01] Well, and, and, but it does leave the, it does make you wonder.

[00:52:06] Um, he came, he came to death, uh, very easily and almost like he knew her.

[00:52:16] And I, I really was thinking there, gosh, is that her?

[00:52:23] I mean, is that like a parent too?

[00:52:25] Like it very much felt like when he is, is there some magical way that death being also,

[00:52:31] you know, the original green, which this like goddess of growth and life and, you know,

[00:52:37] the cycle of life, if she found a way to father a child with, with Agatha, it's unclear, but

[00:52:43] I also think that it's very likely that after being death for thousands and thousands of years,

[00:52:48] she's good at it.

[00:52:49] Yeah.

[00:52:50] So she's good at getting people to follow her.

[00:52:52] I don't know why they had her be like kind of mean to Alice.

[00:52:57] Like that seemed unreasonable where she was like, Oh, if I had a nickel for every time,

[00:53:02] it just seemed, but, um, that is not, that is not the scene I wanted to see.

[00:53:08] Yeah.

[00:53:08] That's not, I wanted them to go back to that scene.

[00:53:10] I was so excited.

[00:53:12] Um, I even liked the way they feel like that's the scene where they did that weird roll up

[00:53:17] camera where, um, she was laying there and then the camera rolls up and it looks like

[00:53:22] she's on the ceiling very much.

[00:53:24] Like, uh, uh, Lilia was when she was heading to die.

[00:53:29] I, which I just, again, it's one of those small little pieces that you catch in your life.

[00:53:33] Cause I remember what had happened.

[00:53:34] I was like, Ooh, that's weird.

[00:53:35] And I was like, Oh, well, that's a callback to last, last episode.

[00:53:39] And, um, I loved it.

[00:53:41] And I'm like, Oh gosh, this is going to be such a powerful scene.

[00:53:43] And it's a pretty flippant scene for much of it.

[00:53:45] And I was almost like, God, I, why?

[00:53:49] Like, why put that in there?

[00:53:50] So that was one of the other nitpicks that I had is, is, um, I wanted more and I really

[00:53:55] was kind of pissed, but maybe this is how we were supposed to feel about, um, oh, um,

[00:54:04] I can't think of her name.

[00:54:05] Oh, see now I'm just as bad as everybody else, but, uh, the, um, we can't even think of the

[00:54:12] actresses.

[00:54:13] No.

[00:54:14] Um, no.

[00:54:15] Aubrey Plaza Rio.

[00:54:17] No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:54:19] Well, I was, I was hoping all of the names.

[00:54:21] The, the Mrs.

[00:54:23] Mrs.

[00:54:24] Lilia.

[00:54:24] No, no, no, no.

[00:54:25] Mrs.

[00:54:25] Hart.

[00:54:26] Sharon Davis.

[00:54:27] Deborah Jo Rupp.

[00:54:29] Definitely leave this in because I definitely just pulled like 17, maybe a minute of.

[00:54:35] Frickin' Agatha.

[00:54:36] Like not remembering your name, but I, I was hoping that there was some, a little back.

[00:54:41] I wanted to see her again.

[00:54:42] Uh, we didn't get to see that.

[00:54:44] Yeah.

[00:54:44] Like seeing death collect her as well would have been, um, that would have given it

[00:54:49] some kind of closure.

[00:54:51] That would have been where I would have put the humor.

[00:54:52] Giving her like a grave.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:55] I just, I, we get to see your shoes and, um, I guess that's something, but I very, very

[00:55:02] much like that.

[00:55:03] I do.

[00:55:03] I do like, uh, when they get to the shoes before they end up in the morgue, uh, Agatha

[00:55:09] says, um, what do you want to do?

[00:55:12] Bronze them.

[00:55:13] And then we walk into Billy's room at the end and is it.

[00:55:17] Well, actually I think he has those little metal shoes.

[00:55:20] They almost look like bronze shoes.

[00:55:22] And I'm like, God, they just, there's so many little things that they get right.

[00:55:25] Um, which I very much love.

[00:55:27] Yeah.

[00:55:27] Yeah.

[00:55:27] We see Billy's room.

[00:55:28] We see a lot of Billy's room at the end of episode eight when he's like going around

[00:55:33] the room and he's seeing all the things he's like, there's a poster of Lorna Wu.

[00:55:36] And I have these wizard of Oz figurines and, you know, and he's starting to realize like

[00:55:42] I, I created the road somehow with these powers that I don't understand yet.

[00:55:48] And, um, I just got to say he had a Buffy, the vampire slayer poster for the musical

[00:55:54] episode.

[00:55:54] What's more with feeling.

[00:55:55] I screamed out loud.

[00:55:57] I was so excited to see it because we've seen Billy's room before, but we hadn't seen

[00:56:01] that poster.

[00:56:02] No, I would have noticed it the first time.

[00:56:04] I saw it too.

[00:56:05] And I paused it.

[00:56:05] I'm like, what the hell is that?

[00:56:07] And then you get a closer look of it and you're like, oh my gosh.

[00:56:10] And I'm like, oh, he's a Buffy fan.

[00:56:12] I knew I liked this kid.

[00:56:15] Um, I was so excited about that, but, uh, we did see, um, more of his room, like, uh,

[00:56:20] this tree that he had that kind of looked like the trees on the road.

[00:56:24] And we had, and a lot of these things we had called out before.

[00:56:27] Right.

[00:56:28] And, uh, somebody I know sent in a note that was like, oh, we just thought those were Easter

[00:56:33] eggs.

[00:56:33] We didn't know that that meant that he had created the road.

[00:56:36] And I was like, oh, I thought that's what we were talking about on the podcast.

[00:56:39] But now I thinking back, I'm like, we just listed all the stuff, but I don't think at

[00:56:43] any point we said, no, it probably means the Billy's in charge of the road.

[00:56:47] Oh yeah.

[00:56:48] We did.

[00:56:48] We talked about it a couple of times because there was that, there was, we talked to, remember

[00:56:53] I said, I did say, I don't think he knows that he's doing it.

[00:56:56] Right.

[00:56:57] But we noticed, remember the globes, um, the table ornaments off of something were in

[00:57:03] his room.

[00:57:04] The leaves.

[00:57:04] The leaves were in his room.

[00:57:07] Um, there was a few there.

[00:57:08] We talked.

[00:57:09] It's funny because we didn't have a full on conversation about it, but it happened in

[00:57:13] little bits and pieces because the minute he started looking around his room and if

[00:57:18] you go back at our text, I was like, oh yes.

[00:57:22] Oh yeah.

[00:57:22] Oh yeah.

[00:57:23] Because I mean, that's, that's Wanda's power.

[00:57:26] Like Wanda's power.

[00:57:27] You're creating things out of nothing.

[00:57:29] Spontaneous creation.

[00:57:30] Oh, it just.

[00:57:32] Chaos magic.

[00:57:33] Beautiful.

[00:57:33] I, I, the two other posters that I saw that I love, um, first of all, a weird callback to

[00:57:40] Poltergeist 2 instead of just Poltergeist, which I love.

[00:57:44] And then Jennifer's body, there was a Jennifer's body poster that was there.

[00:57:48] Yeah.

[00:57:49] That I liked as well.

[00:57:49] He also had a Carrie poster and a Saw poster.

[00:57:52] I thought those were interesting.

[00:57:54] I was like, Saw, why would you put a poster of Saw in your room unless you're like a little

[00:57:59] bit sadistic?

[00:58:02] Well, I.

[00:58:04] But the road was kind of sadistic.

[00:58:07] It really was.

[00:58:08] It really was.

[00:58:09] And I mean, I'm all here for if they ever want to tell like a story about Agatha, perhaps

[00:58:18] the most curious witch.

[00:58:20] Just goes to show you curiosity isn't necessarily a protagonist character trait.

[00:58:25] Yeah.

[00:58:26] But Agatha, the, the watcher per se, I guess I probably shouldn't say watcher.

[00:58:30] I don't want Marvel to come after me.

[00:58:32] But someone who is so adept at learning and being curious and trying to learn about being

[00:58:37] a witch now has this.

[00:58:41] Has Agatha has a Wanda disciple, I guess we could say without any of the knowledge of how

[00:58:48] to do any of the things that he does, which I am just all about.

[00:58:52] And Agatha now as a specter, a ghost.

[00:58:58] I just, there's so much fun that could be had with, with, with Catherine Han just kind

[00:59:03] of floating in and out of scenes like that.

[00:59:05] I just, please, please make it come to something.

[00:59:09] Anyways, we should probably talk about nine.

[00:59:10] I, I don't want to jump ahead.

[00:59:12] Yeah.

[00:59:15] Yeah.

[00:59:16] Let's, let's talk about Agatha's backstory.

[00:59:20] I have already sort of alluded to the fact that I was sort of disappointed at the incompleteness

[00:59:25] of it.

[00:59:25] Like we, we see her like running on a path in the woods to go give birth by herself by a

[00:59:31] lake in the woods for some reason.

[00:59:32] Like where does she come from?

[00:59:35] Why is she alone?

[00:59:37] Like who's the fuck?

[00:59:38] There's so many questions that just aren't answered for whatever reason.

[00:59:41] She's gives birth against a tree rather than like, does she not have anywhere that she

[00:59:46] lives?

[00:59:46] Like what's going on?

[00:59:48] So weird.

[00:59:50] I, the minute that episode started, I was a little bit excited until I realized when we

[01:00:02] got the Nicholas scratch as a full fledged boy, I was like, Oh no, this is only going to

[01:00:10] be like a 10th of this episode.

[01:00:14] And we're not going to, or we're going to get some flashbacks about this and that.

[01:00:19] And the other thing that we didn't end up getting.

[01:00:22] I mean, I liked the story.

[01:00:24] The story was great.

[01:00:26] Like I enjoyed finding out.

[01:00:30] Yes.

[01:00:31] The, the, like mythology, how it was created, how the road, how the road mythology started

[01:00:36] with a little song.

[01:00:38] He started singing the song and I was like, wait, wait, do they know this song?

[01:00:44] And then when you can clearly see them just making it up as they go and I'm like, huh?

[01:00:48] Okay.

[01:00:49] That's kind of cool.

[01:00:50] And then you start seeing, they're basically con artists except instead of conning like

[01:00:58] money or anything else like that, they're conning power.

[01:01:01] And you can clearly see that he's not a fan of it.

[01:01:05] You know, he says he has that his best line is, you know, can't we just, you know, be friends

[01:01:12] with them?

[01:01:13] Yeah.

[01:01:14] What the hell?

[01:01:15] He doesn't want to be a killer.

[01:01:17] And, uh, you know, she's like, if you want to survive, get used to this feeling.

[01:01:21] Yeah.

[01:01:22] You know, she, she, um, I'm going to continue to be a little bit of an Agatha apologist

[01:01:27] just because I, my heart goes out to anybody who, who survived an abusive childhood, an abusive

[01:01:34] parent, but she is always in a state of like fighting for survival.

[01:01:41] She doesn't have the ability to like psychologically think past it.

[01:01:46] It's always about survival for her.

[01:01:49] And, and so the idea that they could just be friends with other witches and not like just

[01:01:55] acquire as much power as you possibly can is, is foreign to her.

[01:02:00] Another thing that's kind of implied is that she needs to continually eat power to stay alive.

[01:02:06] Like it's food for her, not just nice to have or adding to her existing power, but like she

[01:02:14] literally needs it to live.

[01:02:15] And, you know, maybe she would have a regular mortal lifespan without it.

[01:02:19] We know she's like 300 years old.

[01:02:20] So maybe that's what allows her to do it.

[01:02:23] It's, it's pretty horrific though.

[01:02:26] The way those women die is just, I guess it's not all women, but mostly women die is just

[01:02:30] horrible.

[01:02:31] Well, I, I think that in many ways, some of the gaps are okay.

[01:02:39] Um, I don't know that I need to see, I like the story that you're telling Penny and I don't

[01:02:45] know that I need to see what happened prior to the scene from WandaVision where we see her

[01:02:51] destroying her coven.

[01:02:52] I think we see enough there to know the trauma that she's been through.

[01:02:56] Um, is she evil?

[01:02:57] Is she good?

[01:02:58] Between that and the, the cabin scene where her mother was like, I should have killed you

[01:03:02] when you were born.

[01:03:02] I'm like, this is an abusive parent.

[01:03:06] It's yeah.

[01:03:06] Well, and it's a tale.

[01:03:08] I mean, unfortunately that's as old as time where trauma begets more trauma.

[01:03:12] And, you know, I think that many, I mean, you take, you humanize things, you know, you

[01:03:20] take that story and you plug it into any drama where you have, um, an abusive person who was

[01:03:26] abusive because of an abusive parent or an abusive somebody, um, I think is, is a great

[01:03:31] tale to tell.

[01:03:32] And I love, I love that.

[01:03:34] That I, again, why that scene I struggle with at the end of episode eight is because I like

[01:03:41] Agatha as that complex character and even, and, and putting a definition on it.

[01:03:49] I struggle with because there's good to her and the good to her is always rooted in her

[01:03:54] love.

[01:03:55] Like she loved Nicholas.

[01:03:56] She loved Aubrey, uh, Rio, um, to an extent, um, she loves, I don't think to an extent, I

[01:04:04] think we clearly get to see.

[01:04:06] She cares about Billy.

[01:04:07] Yes.

[01:04:08] And she, her best role is as a mentor.

[01:04:11] She is an amazing mentor.

[01:04:13] Now she could from, in most of her relationships, she could give, she could care less about being

[01:04:21] a mentor, but Billy's been around now.

[01:04:25] Like Billy's been in a part of her life and he's a curiosity to her the same way that Wanda

[01:04:33] was, um, all that power.

[01:04:35] Oh, she has to be, she's both curious about it and also just drawn to it out of just a

[01:04:43] lifetime, 350 years or whatever of seeking power.

[01:04:47] Power is the thing that she, her whole life.

[01:04:50] It's the sun for her.

[01:04:51] It's what she revolves around.

[01:04:53] Um, well, and no pun intended, but Billy certainly is a pseudo son to her.

[01:05:00] And I just think there's such a fun story to tell.

[01:05:08] Oh yeah.

[01:05:09] It still involves Wanda.

[01:05:11] It involves Agatha.

[01:05:12] And it would be a travesty if we don't get to see them interact again.

[01:05:17] Yeah.

[01:05:18] Yeah.

[01:05:18] I, I think, well, there's been a lot of, of interviews lately where the powers that be

[01:05:26] at Marvel and Elizabeth Olsen have been saying things like, yeah, it seems like there's a

[01:05:31] lot of ways that Wanda might come back.

[01:05:33] So I think that that is definitely in the mix of the various possibilities.

[01:05:39] Her tone has changed.

[01:05:40] Yeah.

[01:05:40] She used to be like, oh, I think I'm done.

[01:05:42] And now she's like, I love those movies.

[01:05:44] So there is zero chance.

[01:05:46] She hasn't watched this series and said, okay, I'm back.

[01:05:50] I'm back in.

[01:05:51] Yeah.

[01:05:51] Like if the writing is that good and interesting, I want to be a part of it.

[01:05:56] Um, I have since this finale aired or dropped or whatever we call now in the age of streaming,

[01:06:02] um, I have been reading a lot of Scarlet Witch and Agatha comics.

[01:06:09] I, um, I found a whole bunch that were, uh, part of my Kindle unlimited subscription.

[01:06:15] So I downloaded a ton of Scarlet Witch comics and I've been reading them.

[01:06:19] And, uh, Marvel put out this compendium that was like gathering a whole bunch of Agatha

[01:06:24] stories all together.

[01:06:25] So I bought that and I read that.

[01:06:27] So I got to see like different versions of Agatha through the years.

[01:06:31] She started off in like the sixties as part of the Fantastic Four.

[01:06:35] She was, uh, a nanny for, um, Franklin Richards.

[01:06:40] And, uh, she's that old lady kind of character for a long time in the Marvel universe.

[01:06:46] And then at some point she, um, she dies and is a ghost.

[01:06:54] And as a ghost, she looks a lot younger and people are like, you look a lot younger.

[01:06:58] And she's like, well, I mean, I'm 300 years old.

[01:07:01] I could look kind of however I want.

[01:07:03] And, um, and then at some point as a ghost, she does something like so good that the,

[01:07:09] some powerful beings give her life again and she goes back to being alive.

[01:07:15] Um, so there's like all this great material for Agatha to have in the comics, but, um,

[01:07:20] Scarlet Witch also dies and comes back to life several times.

[01:07:23] So it's the Marvel universe, like no character is ever truly gone.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:28] Like they can always bring them back.

[01:07:30] And if all else fails, just grab one from a multiverse and then you get to bring the,

[01:07:35] you know, like, so if, if there's a financial incentive for Marvel to bring a character back

[01:07:42] at, they will.

[01:07:43] And if they have to recast, they will.

[01:07:45] Yeah.

[01:07:46] Well, if, I mean, Catherine Han needs to show up in some form with the fantastic.

[01:07:55] I don't think she would hesitate to come back and play Agatha again.

[01:08:00] Oh, I, but I, I, you talk about, so the running theory is that we're going to get to see the

[01:08:06] fantastic four from a different universe.

[01:08:09] And, you know, if we're talking about Agatha as a nanny, it's very possible that we get

[01:08:15] a cameo of Catherine Han and fantastic four prior to whatever happens in that movie being

[01:08:20] just the nanny, maybe with, yeah, with like a wink or two at the screen.

[01:08:24] I, I, um, if I would be so there for it.

[01:08:28] There's also a whole story where they find out she's a witch and they have to battle this

[01:08:33] like evil villain named Nicholas scratch and she defeats him in the end.

[01:08:39] And she's like, yeah, I know all about that.

[01:08:42] He's my son.

[01:08:43] It's like this tragic moment where the fantastic four realized that like she sacrificed her

[01:08:48] own son for like the safety of everyone else.

[01:08:50] And it's like, yeah.

[01:08:51] Wow.

[01:08:52] Um, uh, I have been loving going back into comic books.

[01:08:57] I sort of get into comics every few years.

[01:09:00] Something will inspire me and I'll start reading a whole bunch of comics and then I'll move

[01:09:04] on.

[01:09:04] So the last time it was when I did She-Hulk, uh, for Podcastica and, um, I, I did a ton of

[01:09:12] reading of like old issues of She-Hulk and, and sort of her evolution through time and, and

[01:09:18] fell madly in love with the character.

[01:09:20] And it's the same thing.

[01:09:21] Whenever I podcast about a character, I'm like, I want to know everything about them.

[01:09:25] Yeah, I agree.

[01:09:26] Yeah.

[01:09:26] I agree.

[01:09:27] I agree.

[01:09:28] I mean, I, yeah.

[01:09:29] I weave in and out of having time.

[01:09:32] Uh, but I, I mean, for me, it was walking dead, uh, list that, you know, and not quite

[01:09:38] the same as a Marvel, but it, it like that got me back into comics in a big way.

[01:09:42] And that got me to start root through my hundreds of comics that I've collected over the years.

[01:09:49] Uh, you know, and I was a huge fan of Scarlet Witch and Vision.

[01:09:53] Um, they had a couple of brief little runs here and there.

[01:09:56] So I just love those characters.

[01:09:57] Uh, and then when I found Scarlet, it's like Scarlet Witch has been intertwined with so

[01:10:03] many different groups, uh, including the Avengers and including the X-Men, obviously.

[01:10:08] Um, and so many different characters, including, uh, Hawkeye.

[01:10:13] And as you mentioned, Magneto and you can go on and on with all the different like characters

[01:10:17] that she's been intertwined with.

[01:10:18] It's just, um, she's had a long time.

[01:10:21] And Dr. Doom, she almost married him.

[01:10:22] Yeah.

[01:10:23] I, well, yeah, here we go.

[01:10:25] There's a whole, yeah, that's a, yeah.

[01:10:27] Um, anyway.

[01:10:29] So let's go back to talking about Agatha.

[01:10:32] So one thing that really struck me about the, the Agatha backstory.

[01:10:36] So after, after Nikki dies and she, she buries him and she's so sad.

[01:10:41] Um, and then that, that woman interrupts her while she's grieving her son.

[01:10:46] First of all, I might've killed that woman too.

[01:10:48] Yeah.

[01:10:48] But, uh, and she's like, you know where the road you can lead me.

[01:10:51] And this leads Agatha into this, this series, right?

[01:10:54] We get this wonderful montage of her tricking witches over through the decades and through

[01:10:59] the costume changes, right?

[01:11:00] There's some amazing costume changes.

[01:11:02] Um, but what struck me.

[01:11:04] By the way, her nineties costume.

[01:11:06] Oh, so.

[01:11:07] Oh, with the leather jacket.

[01:11:08] I'm sorry.

[01:11:09] She looked literally just like, um, oh, what's that actress's name from, uh, the craft,

[01:11:15] uh, the main character of the craft.

[01:11:16] She literally had.

[01:11:17] Oh, Feruza Balk.

[01:11:18] Yeah.

[01:11:18] And I was in my head going, are they trying to say that Agatha?

[01:11:23] Yeah.

[01:11:24] Agatha inspired.

[01:11:25] Yeah.

[01:11:25] Anyways.

[01:11:26] Maybe.

[01:11:26] Yeah.

[01:11:26] Um, but it struck me that the, the people that she was killing, the, the witches that

[01:11:32] she was killing were all people like herself who were seeking knowledge and power beyond

[01:11:43] their, like their current circumstances.

[01:11:46] Right?

[01:11:46] So it's this irony that she went through hundreds of years killing basically young versions of

[01:11:55] herself over and over and over again.

[01:11:58] And it, it infuriated me at first.

[01:12:02] And then I started thinking about it as like, I was hating Agatha for a little while there.

[01:12:07] I was like, how dare you kill these women?

[01:12:09] Right.

[01:12:10] And then, um, I started thinking about all the self-hatred she must have.

[01:12:15] Hmm.

[01:12:16] And that in a way she was killing herself over and over and over again.

[01:12:20] And she was.

[01:12:21] A self-fulfilling prophecy for sure.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:22] And she was like an alcoholic or a drug addict, right?

[01:12:26] She was getting high on the power and telling herself that she didn't care about killing all

[01:12:30] those people.

[01:12:31] But I don't think you can murder a bunch of people who are similar to yourself like that

[01:12:37] and not have massive repercussions in your soul.

[01:12:42] Oh.

[01:12:42] Um, uh, I hope that at some point we get to see her have some regret or, um, or contrition

[01:12:51] about it because she really did kill a lot of people.

[01:12:56] Oh God.

[01:12:56] And we only saw, I'm sure, like a, you know, a fraction of the people she killed because

[01:13:01] she probably ran that scam like all the time.

[01:13:05] Just traveled around the world running that same scam.

[01:13:09] Was she running that scam on the Titanic in the Hindenburg?

[01:13:13] Maybe.

[01:13:14] My original theory was that if she was dating Death, Death would be at these huge events.

[01:13:22] Oh, for sure.

[01:13:22] It's not necessarily that Agatha caused them, but just that she was like Death's companion.

[01:13:27] Yeah.

[01:13:27] Right?

[01:13:28] But now I'm like, did she blow up the Hindenburg?

[01:13:32] Like, I, I no longer would put it past her.

[01:13:36] I, she's a, she's a monster.

[01:13:39] I mean, there are reasons to understand how she could become a monster, but it doesn't

[01:13:45] excuse it.

[01:13:46] Right?

[01:13:47] Understanding why somebody does horrible things is not the same as saying doing those horrible

[01:13:52] things is, is okay or, or even to forgive them.

[01:13:55] And I don't know if I can forgive Agatha for like making me want to apologize for her and

[01:14:02] believe in her so much.

[01:14:03] And then ripping that away from me.

[01:14:05] Like I am, I am angry at Agatha right now for being a monster.

[01:14:10] I did not want her to be a monster.

[01:14:13] First of all, who knew there were that many witches within the three mile radius.

[01:14:16] But, um, I, yeah, it's hard to, it's, it's, you know.

[01:14:21] I would not be at all surprised if I could find five witches in my building.

[01:14:30] Well, I wish I knew the people in your building so we could kind of run through it, but I'll

[01:14:34] come and visit.

[01:14:36] We'll do a walkthrough.

[01:14:37] Yep.

[01:14:38] Yep.

[01:14:38] And you'll be like, I'm getting witch vibes.

[01:14:40] Getting witch vibes.

[01:14:41] Um, so, so when we get finished with the backstory and we come back to reality, um, where, you

[01:14:54] know, she talks about it being a calculated risk, which I liked because she, it leads you

[01:15:01] to believe that when she died, she knew that she would be able to come back in some form,

[01:15:04] which I, which I, I really liked that.

[01:15:06] I do like their interactions a bit, but I, I, I will admit even the second time that I

[01:15:12] watched this, I was so kind of frustrated that she really was this evil character.

[01:15:20] I didn't really know where they were going with it.

[01:15:23] I like, okay, so she likes Billy and now she's gonna be a ghost around him.

[01:15:30] I mean, but, but, but his arc in that second half of the episode where we get to see him

[01:15:39] sort of deal with what he did.

[01:15:43] Yeah.

[01:15:43] And he's like, I killed all those women.

[01:15:45] And she's like, Oh, I killed Alice.

[01:15:48] Well, and then what she said though was striking because she said he's like, um, you know,

[01:15:55] I can't remember what he said, but she said, you saved a life, which is a hundred percent

[01:15:59] true because the whole goal of that was to kill all those witches.

[01:16:02] Maybe even she was definitely going to kill.

[01:16:04] Yeah.

[01:16:05] And you saved a life.

[01:16:06] And that's where we get to see Jen crawling out.

[01:16:09] The amazing thing is to me is this road is clearly still there.

[01:16:13] It's still there under, under, I mean, that's why I kind of like, I can just imagine like,

[01:16:18] you know, one of the characters of Westview, like walking down the street and just falling

[01:16:22] through a road, but being like, yeah.

[01:16:26] And Jen doesn't know that Billy created it from Jen's perspective.

[01:16:30] The road, it was real.

[01:16:31] The road is real, which is an interesting concept because the only people that knew it

[01:16:35] was real are either dead or Billy and a ghost of Agatha.

[01:16:40] Jen flies away, still thinking that it's a thing.

[01:16:43] And I mean, it is a thing now, but not, not a powerful thing because Billy just created

[01:16:47] it and he's, he's gone from it.

[01:16:48] Yeah.

[01:16:49] But it's amazing also to realize that like Billy had, he has so much power.

[01:16:55] Like it's sometimes boggles my mind to think about the Scarlet Witch's power that she was

[01:16:59] showing in WandaVision, right?

[01:17:01] Like her ability to like control the minds of all the people in that town.

[01:17:04] It was just amazing.

[01:17:06] And then Billy's power, he was so powerful that in addition to creating the road, he

[01:17:12] created the trials and the rewards for the trials.

[01:17:16] Like, without knowing it.

[01:17:19] Like Alice really did get to lift that curse.

[01:17:21] Yeah.

[01:17:22] And Jen did get her powers back.

[01:17:25] And yeah, you know, well, amazing.

[01:17:28] I, I loved that.

[01:17:30] I loved that.

[01:17:32] He leaves Agatha hating her with everything about him and goes back to her house, trying

[01:17:40] to figure this all out.

[01:17:42] And, you know, as he's kind of processing all of this in her backyard, in her basement, looking

[01:17:48] at the road, watching him kind of processing the Pentagon.

[01:17:52] And then I love when he starts using his analog magic and we realize, and Agatha's like, or

[01:18:02] not, because again, like Billy is a very impressive witch.

[01:18:07] But, um, we get to see, and then we get to see again, the reason why she's back is she can't

[01:18:17] face her son probably because of all the murder.

[01:18:20] Again, the human, the human qualities of her.

[01:18:24] Um, and she wants the pendant.

[01:18:27] She wants the pendant.

[01:18:28] And that's what human.

[01:18:31] So there's no apologies to be had because if anybody in this show should hate her, it's

[01:18:38] Billy for a variety of different reasons.

[01:18:40] But again, she shows him the human side of her talking about her son.

[01:18:47] And, and she says, um, Billy's like, I'm sure he would forgive you for whatever you did.

[01:18:56] And that, oh man, see these, these damn moments in this show where Agatha looks at him and

[01:19:01] says, see, when you see things like that, um, that's when you remind me of him.

[01:19:06] And I was like, oh God.

[01:19:08] Ah, so good.

[01:19:09] Yeah.

[01:19:10] And I don't know how many actresses could play, play that complexity.

[01:19:15] Like Agatha in these two episodes, like Catherine Hahn is so all over the place again.

[01:19:21] And.

[01:19:22] She's amazing.

[01:19:22] She's so amazing.

[01:19:24] I, I worship her.

[01:19:26] I mean, she's such a gift to the universe.

[01:19:29] I'm so excited about that.

[01:19:31] Truly one of the nicest people.

[01:19:34] There's just truly when you see her do interviews, she has such respect for everybody that she

[01:19:40] works with, with every job that she gets.

[01:19:43] And, um, yeah.

[01:19:45] So, you know, I, I love that little scene where Billy says to her spirit as my guide.

[01:19:51] And then you start to realize, oh, okay.

[01:19:55] But the series is almost over.

[01:19:57] And she's like, we can make a good team, you and I.

[01:20:00] And, and, and here is what I want to talk to you about.

[01:20:04] Yeah.

[01:20:05] And this is a stupid little thing.

[01:20:08] I, but I love it.

[01:20:11] Um, Billy says coven two, and it's a callback to the beginning of the series.

[01:20:19] When.

[01:20:21] When she had that conversation with Jen.

[01:20:24] Jen and Agatha coven two versus coven true.

[01:20:29] And son of a B I want to swear so bad.

[01:20:32] Yeah.

[01:20:33] It's coven two.

[01:20:35] Like.

[01:20:35] Yeah.

[01:20:36] We get to see the origin of the song.

[01:20:39] And I love that Agatha is like, it's coven two.

[01:20:42] And she's like, it's coven true.

[01:20:43] And then we get this other callback in episode nine where we're like, oh my God, she literally

[01:20:49] wrote the song and it is coven two.

[01:20:53] But going back to assembled the most amazing part of assembled that I saw was the talk about

[01:21:02] the creation of the song and how most great songs come from others and they create a life

[01:21:10] of their own.

[01:21:11] And if you think in your life, if you like music the way that you and I do, and if you're

[01:21:15] listening to this, I know a lot of you like music as much as we do the, the amount of times

[01:21:21] you have an argument over a lyric in the song and a lyric in the song that means something

[01:21:27] to you.

[01:21:27] And someone says, no, that's not it.

[01:21:29] And I can give you a hundred examples.

[01:21:33] The depth of which this song goes, the different versions, the different ways it's told.

[01:21:38] And when you listen to the creators of the music, talk about how they wanted to create

[01:21:43] a song that was originally written in the 1600s or 1700s and have it develop over time into

[01:21:50] all of these different versions.

[01:21:52] Oh my gosh, the power of that.

[01:21:54] And I just, when that part of it, when, when Billy says coven two, and I, I remember sitting

[01:22:00] back thinking immediately of that Jen scene and then pondering, holy cow, the show was this

[01:22:09] deep where there, that little bit of a callback can, can make a viewer go.

[01:22:14] That's kind of cool.

[01:22:16] Yeah.

[01:22:17] That's a resonance.

[01:22:18] It is coven two.

[01:22:19] Created by brilliant people who, again, should make all of the monies because I don't know

[01:22:28] how you can create a song that has so many different meanings within the confines of a

[01:22:33] show.

[01:22:34] And then outside of the show become a whole nother thing separate of the show.

[01:22:41] Yeah.

[01:22:42] You've kind of created it's, and this is a really bad comparison, but my, my daughter and I about

[01:22:49] five years ago, watch that thing you do.

[01:22:53] And they wrote that song on that show called that thing you do.

[01:22:57] And my daughter said, is this a real song from the, from the sixties?

[01:23:00] And I was like, no.

[01:23:01] And she's like, it's not.

[01:23:03] I'm like, no.

[01:23:03] And she's like, this is so good.

[01:23:05] It sounds like a real song from the sixties.

[01:23:07] And I'm like, yeah, whenever I hear it now, it's like in my brain is a sixties song because

[01:23:12] when they wrote that song, it's so caught that moment.

[01:23:15] It's not to the depth of, of, of the, the witch's battle.

[01:23:19] It's only one version.

[01:23:20] So it doesn't have the variety that we got with the ballad of the witch's road, but it,

[01:23:26] I understand that what you're saying, it's this ability that these songwriters, musicians

[01:23:33] have to project this song back in time and create something that could work in so many

[01:23:40] different genres.

[01:23:42] And the fact that it is being constantly remixed by people and is, has taken on its whole life,

[01:23:48] a life of its own on the internet.

[01:23:50] And with other musicians being so inspired by it, it's, um, it's a, an amazing accomplishment.

[01:23:56] And, um, I mean, they already have an EGOT, but, uh, they need to win more, more awards.

[01:24:05] Just so many awards.

[01:24:06] Yeah.

[01:24:07] I, I, obviously this show, I don't know, you know, at the end of the day, we talk about

[01:24:15] shows that, and movies that should win that don't.

[01:24:18] I fear it because it's a Marvel show because it's a LGBTQ plus show.

[01:24:24] It's a, it's got all of these.

[01:24:25] Yeah.

[01:24:26] It's early.

[01:24:27] It might have a shot at the sort of technical Emmys, you know, like the arts Emmys, but I

[01:24:32] don't know.

[01:24:33] If they don't win a costume design award, if they don't win all of them in every award

[01:24:38] ceremony.

[01:24:39] Well, it depends on if they're going to be in the same year with Shogun.

[01:24:43] I think Shogun is already done.

[01:24:45] And so this is a new year, but, um,

[01:24:49] Yeah.

[01:24:49] Well, you have to, you haven't seen Shogun yet, but when you see Shogun,

[01:24:52] I saw three episodes.

[01:24:53] We'll talk.

[01:24:53] Oh, you've seen three.

[01:24:54] Okay.

[01:24:54] I've seen three episodes.

[01:24:55] You don't, I mean, I've not seen the whole thing, but oh my gosh.

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:24:59] That's an all encompassing.

[01:25:01] The art, the art on screen in Shogun is unreal.

[01:25:05] Um, if you want to hear more about what I think about Shogun, I did do a podcast about

[01:25:09] it.

[01:25:09] It's on the cast of the rings.

[01:25:11] It's findable on the podcast website.

[01:25:13] And, um, I, uh, I gushed and gushed and gushed about the costumes there.

[01:25:18] So I don't need to do it again here.

[01:25:20] Um, but, uh, um, yeah, there's, there's a lot of technical and artistic excellence happening

[01:25:29] on screen in this show.

[01:25:32] And I hope that it gets the respect it deserves.

[01:25:35] If it doesn't get the award respect that it deserves, I, I do like knowing that Marvel as

[01:25:43] a whole is successful and that all of these amazing artists are probably going to get hired

[01:25:49] for the next project as well.

[01:25:52] So, um, that, that makes me happy.

[01:25:54] I hope that I'm right about that and, and they're not going to try to farm it all out to

[01:25:59] some like cheap offshore thing.

[01:26:01] But, um, also I'm going to try not to get into my thoughts on international trade politics.

[01:26:07] Uh, let's just move on.

[01:26:14] Let's talk about where, uh, where we think Tommy is.

[01:26:19] So we saw that scene of Tommy, of some boy being bullied and pushed into a pool.

[01:26:25] That is apparently who Billy has now put Tommy's soul into.

[01:26:32] Um, I wonder if, first of all, we don't know if Joe Locke is going to play both characters.

[01:26:38] I hope so, because that's such a cool thing in the comics, um, that the, that they're identical

[01:26:44] twins, even though they aren't, weren't born together.

[01:26:48] Um, although in the, in the comics, they were both, uh, re reincarnated as babies.

[01:26:54] They didn't take over the bodies of a teenager who died.

[01:26:58] Um, it's unclear to me if Tommy is the same age as William Kaplan, like the, whoever Tommy

[01:27:05] inhabited, like we don't really have that much information about him at all.

[01:27:08] Um, for some reason, I have it in my head that he's in Texas.

[01:27:12] I really don't know why.

[01:27:15] Um, but, uh, you know, they, they ended the series with Agatha and Billy heading out to

[01:27:25] go find Tommy.

[01:27:26] And it just seems like tune in next summer for Wiccan, the series.

[01:27:33] Like it just, it seems like so naturally that there's going to be a follow-up.

[01:27:39] Well, and you know, you, you have a vision series coming and.

[01:27:47] Do you have any knowledge about what's going to, the vision series is going to be about?

[01:27:51] Cause now I've read some vision comics.

[01:27:53] And so I'm really curious.

[01:27:55] Well, it's obviously, um, a story about somebody who a machine who had his mind wiped.

[01:28:13] And then sure seems to me like a bunch of stuff got put back in there.

[01:28:17] So I have a feeling it's going to be a story about discovery.

[01:28:21] Now I kind of want it to be separate.

[01:28:27] Um, because I don't want it to be too complicated.

[01:28:31] And I think Paul Bettany has a great story to tell.

[01:28:34] Mm-hmm.

[01:28:35] And I don't know that we need to see.

[01:28:40] This story wasn't about vision at all.

[01:28:43] It was about.

[01:28:43] Yeah.

[01:28:44] I don't need it to be connected, um, to this story.

[01:28:48] I at all.

[01:28:49] There's the comic I just read was, um, uh, about vision after he got his memory.

[01:28:57] White vision, getting his memories back or some version of vision, getting his memories

[01:29:01] back.

[01:29:02] He's not with Wanda anymore.

[01:29:03] And he creates a family of like other visions.

[01:29:08] He creates a wife and two kids and like tries to live in a small town as like a normal family,

[01:29:14] but they are fully robots.

[01:29:16] Like they, they don't look human and they're trying to like be normal, but they have all

[01:29:22] these powers and stuff.

[01:29:23] It's, and the way that this comic is drawn and written is intense.

[01:29:30] I'm, I kind of want everyone to read it.

[01:29:32] It's so good.

[01:29:34] It blew my mind.

[01:29:36] Now, of course, I don't remember the, um, the year you have to like to find the right

[01:29:41] comic.

[01:29:42] You have to like look up the year because they're all called like vision, vision, the

[01:29:46] vision.

[01:29:47] Like it's like, I don't know how people are supposed to keep track of like spectacular

[01:29:52] Spider-Man, amazing Spider-Man, excellent Spider-Man, like the Spider-Man.

[01:29:57] Um, but, uh, there's this one, it's like the standalone vision Marvel story that is, um,

[01:30:06] amazing.

[01:30:07] I'm looking it up right now guys, so that I can find the name of it.

[01:30:10] So you can go look it up and read it.

[01:30:12] Cause it, it blew me away.

[01:30:14] The, the drawings, first of all, are really unusual and, um, and kind of creepy and really,

[01:30:22] really worth, um, seeing.

[01:30:24] Okay.

[01:30:24] So it's by Tom King and it's called vision, the complete series.

[01:30:29] Um, and I, I mean, I read it on my iPad.

[01:30:32] I got it from, from the Kindle store, but I'm sure that you can get it wherever you get comic

[01:30:37] books.

[01:30:37] Um, I like reading on the iPad because you can like zoom in and out of pictures.

[01:30:42] Yeah.

[01:30:43] Yeah.

[01:30:43] So I read like the compendium version.

[01:30:46] It's a series of six issues.

[01:30:47] It won the 2017 Eisner award for best limited series.

[01:30:51] So I'm not alone in thinking it was really amazing.

[01:30:55] And again, it was Tom King.

[01:30:57] It's a 1299 on Apple books.

[01:31:01] Um, that's what I got from Google.

[01:31:03] Anyway.

[01:31:04] Um, I hope that the series is something like that comic because it explored a lot of really

[01:31:10] interesting ideas about humanity and memory and power and, and, um, you know, what, and

[01:31:18] morals and ethics and robots and stuff that I've always thought was really interesting.

[01:31:24] I would imagine that much of that series will be, you know, the more Wanda questions.

[01:31:31] Will she show up there?

[01:31:32] And I don't think she will.

[01:31:33] I think wherever she shows up again, if she does, will be something a little more tuned

[01:31:37] into her.

[01:31:39] Um, and maybe we get those two series sort of converging into maybe a movie or another

[01:31:45] series.

[01:31:46] I don't know.

[01:31:46] We'll see.

[01:31:47] But, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm going to get that comic book because that definitely is intriguing.

[01:31:52] I, I guess my worry would be because they've seen, I mean, it's, you just, it sounds of like

[01:32:01] a very similar setup to what Wanda, what Wanda did.

[01:32:06] Yeah.

[01:32:07] It's different though.

[01:32:08] Cause it's, he's fully conscious of it.

[01:32:10] And, um, and he, uh, and every, and it's all above board and open and everyone knows what's

[01:32:17] happening.

[01:32:18] Like there's no, there's no secrecy.

[01:32:20] There's no pretending that he's not the vision.

[01:32:23] He's, he like has a job at the white house as like the, like liaison to superheroes or something.

[01:32:29] Like he's got, as long as it's far enough away from Westview that they don't try to put

[01:32:33] it back in Westview because those poor people need a break.

[01:32:35] They've, they've been through enough.

[01:32:37] Uh, I wondered like, so the kid, her son, Nicholas steals a bell at the beginning that they're

[01:32:47] chasing him for.

[01:32:48] And it, I, she, I think she used a bell.

[01:32:52] It's the, I think it's the same bell.

[01:32:53] I'm pretty sure.

[01:32:54] Is it the same bell?

[01:32:55] Like I, I, there was that, they're just little things that I loved.

[01:32:58] Um, uh, never in the series.

[01:33:04] Did they say that one that was dead?

[01:33:07] Um, they showed it, uh, they said that she was gone, but they never said that she was

[01:33:14] dead.

[01:33:14] I thought that was kind of fun.

[01:33:16] Uh, the original witch that walks up to Agatha when she's standing by her son's grave,

[01:33:28] go back and watch it.

[01:33:30] Like she looks like the younger version of Sharon.

[01:33:33] Oh, really?

[01:33:34] That's yeah.

[01:33:35] And I just, I was like, are they doing that on purpose?

[01:33:37] Just to mess with me, but I could be wrong there too.

[01:33:40] Um, and I just, uh, I just, even if nothing ever comes of, of, I'll be sad, I'll be disappointed,

[01:33:49] but man, I'm so, so happy that this series got made.

[01:33:53] I'm so, I feel so content.

[01:33:57] I am hopeful.

[01:33:58] I was reading in an article somewhere that the makers of the show, and you know, this could

[01:34:04] be a political thing to just trying to get it in the right series, but they're submitting

[01:34:09] it to award shows as a series.

[01:34:13] Yeah.

[01:34:13] Not a limited series, not a limited series, which I'm pretty happy about.

[01:34:18] And, uh, in the article that I read, uh, they were very distinct that when Jack Schaefer

[01:34:26] was asked about how she wanted things submitted, she said, submitted as a series.

[01:34:31] Didn't seem like there was, there was plotting going on to try to put it in the right category.

[01:34:36] It just felt like she's, she wants it in the oeuvre that this is going to, this, this

[01:34:43] is a series that could continue.

[01:34:45] Uh, this is like what happened with Shogun.

[01:34:48] Shogun was supposed to be a limited series one and done.

[01:34:51] And in between the end of the series and award time, they changed it from limited series to

[01:34:59] series and submitted it for awards under series.

[01:35:02] And they have said they're cut, they're working on a season two.

[01:35:04] And I'm, I mean, I'm beyond thrilled because I love the first one so much, but it's like

[01:35:10] quality.

[01:35:11] Like they'll break rules.

[01:35:13] They'll change things.

[01:35:14] If something is a big hit, they'll make a second one.

[01:35:17] Give, give Jack Schaefer three more years.

[01:35:20] Let her work on whatever she's working on.

[01:35:23] Cause you know, her mind's a churning right now.

[01:35:25] Um, and then give us whatever comes next for any care.

[01:35:28] Like give me here for it.

[01:35:31] I just want Jen back.

[01:35:33] I, this is no affront to any of the characters, other characters that we love.

[01:35:37] Give me Jen.

[01:35:39] Just a fantastic role.

[01:35:41] I hope she wins an award so badly because.

[01:35:44] Yeah.

[01:35:46] The, I just, yeah.

[01:35:48] Complexity of what she had to deal with those hundred years and her disdain for Agatha from

[01:35:54] jump and her, there were moments where she played naive and there were moments where she

[01:36:01] was powerful and there were moments.

[01:36:03] And what I loved, what I love the most is her, her, her journey along the road.

[01:36:09] Um, she, she got her power back in that last episode, which was amazing.

[01:36:14] So eight episode eight, but she got a lot of her power back before that, where she had

[01:36:22] multiple, like Alice and her, her relationship with Alice, her relationship with Lillia.

[01:36:27] My gosh.

[01:36:28] Um, the, the angst that she had at the beginning of the episode when she realized that Lillia

[01:36:34] was gone.

[01:36:35] Um, that what an actress, what a, what a powerhouse.

[01:36:40] I hope she becomes a star.

[01:36:41] It's amazing to me that we first saw her on Saturday Night Live.

[01:36:45] It's crazy to me.

[01:36:47] And she's so much more than a, than like a sketch comedy actor.

[01:36:52] Like she's got all these levels and layers to her.

[01:36:55] I feel like we have years ahead of us of great Sashir Zamata content.

[01:37:01] Yeah.

[01:37:02] And I don't know.

[01:37:02] I haven't checked to see what she's got, you know, coming out, but.

[01:37:06] Um, favorite small fact about her is that her name Sashir comes from Star Trek.

[01:37:11] Her parents were good Trekkies.

[01:37:13] Yeah.

[01:37:14] How do I not know that?

[01:37:15] I saw an interview with her where someone asked her about her name and she's like, oh, it's

[01:37:19] from Star Trek.

[01:37:20] And I was like, oh, that makes me like her even more.

[01:37:24] Like she had the nerdiest of nerd parents.

[01:37:29] Well, I mean, it's kind of crazy, but on IMDB, she's not, she doesn't have anything in the

[01:37:34] pipe right now.

[01:37:35] So.

[01:37:36] She will.

[01:37:37] After people see this, I'm sure she's in like a billion meetings in Hollywood right

[01:37:41] now.

[01:37:42] Oh gosh.

[01:37:42] With people being like, we'd like to sign a general development deal with you or whatever.

[01:37:47] Please.

[01:37:48] Please.

[01:37:48] We do know what, uh, Catherine Hahn's next thing is.

[01:37:52] She's apparently doing this Kevin Hart comedy on the Roku channel that is going to be in its

[01:37:57] third season starting in December.

[01:37:59] And I've never even heard of it.

[01:38:01] So, um, it's, it's funny.

[01:38:03] I saw the title when I, when I sent you that link today, I saw the title and I was like,

[01:38:09] I think that's a show already.

[01:38:12] Um, and I saw Hart and I was like, uh, Kevin Hart.

[01:38:17] And then I read a little bit about the article and I thought, okay, she's playing a diva.

[01:38:23] I can watch that.

[01:38:24] I will watch that.

[01:38:25] She's going to do that very well.

[01:38:26] And it's obviously a comedy.

[01:38:28] So, uh, I will, I will peek into Catherine Hahn has me wanting to watch it.

[01:38:34] So yeah.

[01:38:35] Yeah.

[01:38:36] Uh, well, with that we're sort of, we're sort of transitioning into news.

[01:38:40] Yes.

[01:38:40] That was part of our news.

[01:38:41] So, um, uh, I'm, I'm just gonna, um, I'm just gonna read this, some excerpts from this

[01:38:50] article because we've been sort of dancing around it.

[01:38:53] Uh, promising news about Agatha all along season two and Scarlet Witch's return.

[01:38:57] So this article was written by Paul Tassi for Forbes.

[01:39:01] There were a ton of articles about this topic, but I liked the sassiness of this writing.

[01:39:07] Yes, I agree a hundred percent.

[01:39:10] Yeah.

[01:39:10] So I just pulled out a few excerpts.

[01:39:13] Um, we have Marvel TV guru, Brad Winterbaum giving the clearest indication so far that Agatha

[01:39:18] all along may in fact shed its miniseries label and return for season two.

[01:39:23] We've already seen indications of this with the show being submitted for best comedy at

[01:39:27] the Emmys rather than best limited series.

[01:39:29] And now Winterbaum is also, is almost spelling it out.

[01:39:33] Quote, I think we all want to see more adventures in Westview.

[01:39:37] Close quotes.

[01:39:37] The theories have always been that at least Wiccan would stay around either with his own

[01:39:42] show, which was not announced or just moving to Young Avengers.

[01:39:45] Neither of those projects have been confirmed, but Disney may have realized that yes, they

[01:39:51] should probably just keep making TV shows that feel like actual TV shows rather than mini movies

[01:39:56] or projects that lead straight into something different.

[01:39:59] That was something Kevin Feige explicitly said that they want to plan more multiple season shows.

[01:40:05] And well, even if that was not the plan for Agatha, maybe they're going to use this as an example of how to do that going forward with a season two renewal.

[01:40:14] Now, a related topic.

[01:40:16] Scarlet Witch.

[01:40:17] Kevin Feige is no longer bothering to pretend that Wanda Maximoff is permanently dead after the events of Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness.

[01:40:25] There was a theory that she would be revived at the end of Agatha, but that didn't happen.

[01:40:30] Feige is saying it will happen, however.

[01:40:32] All I can say is that we're excited to find out when and how she can come back.

[01:40:38] Oh, really, Kevin?

[01:40:39] You're excited to find out?

[01:40:40] I think you know, man.

[01:40:42] But the rest of us, we can only speculate.

[01:40:45] There are probably three main options for when and how Scarlet Witch returns.

[01:40:49] One, during Avengers Doomsday, which would be the biggest stage for her re-arrival and possibly the best option.

[01:40:55] Two, during the Vision series, where obviously that's her husband and it would make sense if she got involved at some point there.

[01:41:02] And three, during Agatha all along season two slash Wiccan, where there would be a place that would feature both her children.

[01:41:09] I'm hoping for a big splashy return in Doomsday, but we'll see.

[01:41:15] We'll link that whole article in the show notes, of course.

[01:41:18] I think that however she comes back, I mean, obviously a reunification of some sort would be, I mean, a really powerful ending to her character and give her a better ending than she got when that spoilers castle landed on top of her, supposedly.

[01:41:39] Not a huge fan of that.

[01:41:40] No, nope, nope, nope.

[01:41:43] Although I'll watch Elizabeth Olsen in anything because she's fantastic as well.

[01:41:48] She is amazing.

[01:41:48] Have you seen Ingrid Goes West?

[01:41:50] I have, yes.

[01:41:52] Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

[01:41:54] Speaking of Aubrey Plaza.

[01:41:57] Yeah.

[01:41:58] I love how-

[01:41:58] If you listeners haven't seen it, look for it.

[01:42:01] It's great.

[01:42:01] I just love how these actresses too have been so intertwined with each other.

[01:42:06] It's just fantastic.

[01:42:07] Yeah, it's really great.

[01:42:11] It's time for us to talk about the final witchy question of the week.

[01:42:15] And I have to say I was really moved by the response that we got to this question.

[01:42:20] It's pretty phenomenal.

[01:42:23] And the way I phrased the question was online.

[01:42:27] It was, what's something in real life that you find magical?

[01:42:30] Yes, Patti LuPone is a valid answer.

[01:42:35] And I'm just going to be honest.

[01:42:37] I cannot say, I mean, anything that I would come up with is going to come out.

[01:42:41] And it's one of the many responses that I just want to say here.

[01:42:45] This has been my first like full-on co-host podcast here at Podcastica.

[01:42:49] And as the show has caught in wind and amount of people who we're friends with just in the network and people that I've never talked to that have joined in on the show, it's just been like great for me and my health and my mental health.

[01:43:06] So I had no idea that we've had a lot of feedback throughout the episodes growing, but the feedback for these two episodes has totally blown me away.

[01:43:16] I just can't express to y'all enough like how amazing this experience has been.

[01:43:21] So I'm sad that the show is over.

[01:43:24] I'm going to pray for it to come back just so I can come back and continue it.

[01:43:30] And now I'm going to, Vision Quest is coming out soon.

[01:43:33] So I'm going to try to nudge my way into that one in some form.

[01:43:36] But I just, I appreciate all the feedback.

[01:43:39] And my goodness, I didn't read them all because I want to be moved.

[01:43:42] But there were a couple of answers.

[01:43:44] Like I thought, oh, I'll talk about my kids at some point.

[01:43:47] And there are just some answers that go just beyond what I could ever come up with.

[01:43:51] So I'll just say this, a cat purr, and I'll leave it at that, and we'll move on to some better answers.

[01:43:58] Cat purring is kind of magical because scientists don't really completely understand it.

[01:44:05] We can, we'll take turns reading them.

[01:44:07] You want to take Sam there first?

[01:44:08] All right.

[01:44:09] Here we go.

[01:44:09] Sam, Sam Lowe.

[01:44:12] Rolled out so many awesome ones here.

[01:44:13] Number one, the love of animals towards people.

[01:44:17] Number two, how good water feels when you're thirsty.

[01:44:21] Number three, the warmth of the sun on my face.

[01:44:24] Number four, imagination.

[01:44:26] Number five, the beauty of nature.

[01:44:29] Number six.

[01:44:30] Number six.

[01:44:31] And guys, like if you're sad about anything or maybe something that's gone on in the past couple weeks, like listen to this over and over again.

[01:44:39] Because if you can find this much joy and this much magic, I'm not even a quarter of the way through.

[01:44:46] So here we go.

[01:44:47] Number six, seeing whales in the wild while on a boat.

[01:44:50] Number seven.

[01:44:52] Number seven.

[01:44:52] The feeling of floating you get when first get into a big body of water and your feet feel so light.

[01:45:00] Eight.

[01:45:01] The smell of logs burning in a fire pit.

[01:45:03] That's such a good one.

[01:45:05] Number nine.

[01:45:05] The ocean.

[01:45:06] Something so ancient, beautiful, and unknown.

[01:45:09] It's been there since our ancestors crawled out of it.

[01:45:11] Has known every one of them and will be there long after we are gone.

[01:45:15] And goodness, Sam.

[01:45:17] Every time I stare at the ocean, something like that floats into my brain.

[01:45:21] Number ten.

[01:45:22] The love and joy of friends.

[01:45:23] We're born into families and friends are random strangers that we meet by chance.

[01:45:27] Connect to on a deep level and remain with each other through all the different versions we become in life.

[01:45:34] That type of seeing and belonging is so powerful.

[01:45:37] It is magic.

[01:45:38] And I guess I can't convey what this experience at podcasting has been for me and podcasting with Penny and with Sam and Kara, who's next.

[01:45:49] And it has been such a beautiful experience.

[01:45:51] And I think everybody that belongs to this network will say the same thing.

[01:45:54] So thank you, Jason.

[01:45:55] Thank you, Penny.

[01:45:56] Thank you, everybody.

[01:45:57] Like this.

[01:45:58] God, Sam, that was beautiful.

[01:45:59] I love being your friend.

[01:46:03] Me too.

[01:46:06] Kara, speaking of other people who have guessed.

[01:46:08] guessed it on this podcast, but also the Buffy podcast, says, one, the energy of not guessed it on the Buffy podcast.

[01:46:16] Obviously, Kara is my co-host.

[01:46:19] One, the energy of a postseason baseball crowd.

[01:46:25] So true.

[01:46:26] The infectious joy and support amongst women at the Ares Tour.

[01:46:32] I've heard about this a lot.

[01:46:33] I haven't been to the Ares Tour.

[01:46:34] Kara's been to it like four times or something.

[01:46:36] And there was one incident where in a show in Scotland where the crowd at the tour was so energetically like dancing and singing that they registered on the Richter scale.

[01:46:52] Like, oh, I created a small earthquake.

[01:46:54] I created a small earthquake.

[01:46:57] Three, those moments when you laugh so hard with friends that you can't catch your breath.

[01:47:04] I so look forward to those moments.

[01:47:06] I mean, it makes life worth living.

[01:47:11] Laura, Willie Swank.

[01:47:13] Lost memories and how they sneak up on you like the way a very specific scent of wet leaves and soil after the rain instantly takes me back to childhood summer spent in rural North Carolina.

[01:47:24] Or driving down a certain stretch of road at nighttime in a town where I grew up and hearing the Pixies on the radio take me right back to my teenage years driving into the city to meet up with friends at a cafe.

[01:47:36] So many times a song will hit me at the right spot and just totally bring me back.

[01:47:43] Yeah.

[01:47:45] Time machine songs, I call them.

[01:47:46] Oh, for sure.

[01:47:48] Wyman Owen says, the absolute amazement on my kids' faces when they watched Star Wars for the first time.

[01:47:57] My son.

[01:47:58] Oh, my son.

[01:47:59] Yeah.

[01:48:00] I'll never forget that moment.

[01:48:01] Yeah.

[01:48:02] It's pretty great.

[01:48:03] I have shown The Princess Bride to my niece and nephew for the first time.

[01:48:08] Oh, yeah.

[01:48:08] And watching them fall in love with that movie, similar experience, I think.

[01:48:17] So I went and saw Rogue One.

[01:48:19] The day that Carrie Fisher died.

[01:48:21] Oh, really?

[01:48:23] And I'd already seen it.

[01:48:24] So I knew it was coming at the end.

[01:48:26] So as we're sitting at the beginning of the movie, my daughter shows me the phone and we had this moment.

[01:48:32] And I had this moment.

[01:48:33] And I know how much my daughter loves Carrie Fisher, loves the character Princess Leia.

[01:48:39] And so watching my daughter's face when Carrie Fisher shows up in the end.

[01:48:46] Oh, gosh.

[01:48:47] Spoiler for crying out loud.

[01:48:49] But that was a pretty magical moment for me.

[01:48:52] It's where I knew that my daughter loved Star Wars as much as me, which was pretty cool.

[01:48:57] All right.

[01:48:58] All right.

[01:48:58] Jason Kabassi.

[01:49:00] My kiddos' smiles.

[01:49:02] Cliché but true.

[01:49:03] Oh, so true, Jason.

[01:49:05] Laughing with friends.

[01:49:06] I figured out early on that this is one of the best things in life.

[01:49:09] So true as well.

[01:49:11] Ahead of this 18-year-old Talisker Scotch I got recently, like I took my first sip and I was actually taken aback by how good it was.

[01:49:20] And being pleasantly surprised by anything.

[01:49:24] Nice.

[01:49:26] Ezra Sherman.

[01:49:27] Hi, Ezra.

[01:49:28] College friend of mine.

[01:49:29] Says the way that a single note in a piece of music can have a direct emotional effect on the person listening and the person playing for that matter.

[01:49:39] So true.

[01:49:41] Becky Anderson.

[01:49:43] One cloudy, stormy day.

[01:49:45] Something about the rain, the smells, the sounds.

[01:49:48] Love the way it makes me feel.

[01:49:50] A cloudy, stormy day is my favorite.

[01:49:52] I love it.

[01:49:53] Yeah, me too.

[01:49:54] When I'm going.

[01:49:55] Yeah, I just.

[01:49:56] There's something about the rhythm to that.

[01:49:59] Number two, when I'm going to sleep and my oldest cat snuggles up to me to my arm and puts her head in my hand to sleep.

[01:50:07] That's a really sweet image.

[01:50:09] And number three, the feeling I get when I'm surrounded by family and friends.

[01:50:17] These are going to make me cry if I think about them too much while we're talking.

[01:50:20] So I'm just going to try to get through them.

[01:50:22] Claire Rettler says, the power of the ocean, the vastness of space, and my mom.

[01:50:28] She was born blind, had nine kids, and then raised us by herself when my dad left.

[01:50:33] She's also hysterical, an incredible pianist, a writer, and the most loving person I know.

[01:50:38] Yeah, she's magical.

[01:50:40] And Claire included a photo of, I assume that's her there with her mother.

[01:50:44] And her mother is wearing this very silly clown wig.

[01:50:49] And Claire is in, I think that's a cookie monster outfit.

[01:50:53] Anyway, it's the cutest picture ever.

[01:50:55] And thank you, Claire, for sending it in.

[01:50:56] It's great.

[01:50:57] I love the commonality of some of these two, but that is amazing.

[01:51:04] I wonder if that's Raggedy Ann.

[01:51:05] Anyways.

[01:51:06] Becca Loeb, I concur about Patti.

[01:51:10] Oh, Patti LuPone.

[01:51:11] Yeah, she is.

[01:51:13] She's magical.

[01:51:13] Still my favorite episode.

[01:51:14] Just, you know, full stop.

[01:51:17] Episode seven should win every Patti LuPone in that episode.

[01:51:22] Again, I think should at least be up for award for that.

[01:51:26] Amazing.

[01:51:27] Yeah.

[01:51:28] Karen Schmelke Cohn, another college friend, says, when leaves are falling gently in the wind, also a light, fluffy snowfall.

[01:51:36] A baby smile that turns your heart to goo.

[01:51:43] Wendy Ann, multicolored holiday lights.

[01:51:47] I agree with you 100%, Wendy Ann.

[01:51:51] My family, on the other hand, always wants one single color and it drives me nuts.

[01:51:57] That's why you have to have different areas of your house that you put lights in.

[01:52:03] So one area can be all the white lights and another area can have the colorful lights.

[01:52:08] So, everybody wants it.

[01:52:08] Oh, Penny, my geek tree, which I'm getting ready to put up and send pictures to you of, is multicolored.

[01:52:15] I said, if you get me a white light tree, I will lose it.

[01:52:20] So, multicolored all the way.

[01:52:23] Daniel Dement Juice.

[01:52:25] First, she sent in a picture of a shirtless Hugh Jackman as Wolverine.

[01:52:30] And then she wrote underneath it, okay, we're doing serious answers.

[01:52:35] Thunderstorms.

[01:52:36] Newborn babies.

[01:52:37] The way it feels when you have on headphones and you're alone listening to music you love and can really let yourself feel all the feelings and sing as loud as you want with your eyes closed.

[01:52:49] All right.

[01:52:51] From Aaron Lynch.

[01:52:54] You asked about magical things in real life and I'll try to be quick.

[01:52:59] Oh, boy.

[01:53:01] Several years ago, I went camping with a group of guys at the invitation of my good friend.

[01:53:06] Now, I am not an outdoorsy type of gay, but I was wanting to meet new people and break out of the rut of a work-to-home cycle.

[01:53:13] So, my friends invited me.

[01:53:15] I was set to share a large tent with another random newbie to the group.

[01:53:19] The guy I was set to tent with was arriving late, so I didn't get a chance to meet him before all the parties and fun began.

[01:53:27] Near the end of the night, I went back to the tent and crawled into my bed and fell asleep.

[01:53:34] I woke up to a strange man crawling into bed with me.

[01:53:37] He was obviously a little inebriated and had come on the wrong side of the tent and got confused.

[01:53:43] But he snuggled up next to me and fell fast asleep.

[01:53:46] I just didn't have the heart to tell him to go to his own bed.

[01:53:50] When I woke up to the sunlight in the morning, bird chirping, and the sounds and smells of breakfast being made,

[01:53:56] this five-foot-six little ball of fuzz curled up on my chest, looked up at me, obviously confused a bit.

[01:54:02] He smiled with these beautiful blue eyes and said,

[01:54:05] Hi, I'm Billy.

[01:54:08] I fell in love in that moment and the feeling has never faded.

[01:54:11] It was a moment of chance, serendipity, or whatever you want to call it.

[01:54:16] But to me, it was magic.

[01:54:23] It's so beautiful.

[01:54:24] Aaron, thank you so much for sharing that with us.

[01:54:27] Thanks for being brave and sharing that.

[01:54:28] It's so gorgeous.

[01:54:30] It is.

[01:54:31] It's petty and I are so...

[01:54:32] And adorable.

[01:54:35] So, when I asked the question last time, I gave an example of the ocean and of music as things that are magical.

[01:54:44] And I've thought about it in the meantime.

[01:54:46] And, you know, people have said a lot of things that I agree with.

[01:54:51] But I want to talk about what's been moving me lately, magically.

[01:54:57] And that is imagination, creativity, and art.

[01:55:00] But making art is not something that I can really explain why I want to do it so much.

[01:55:10] And how it invades my mind and takes over my time and my motivations.

[01:55:18] And makes me feel simultaneously very much myself and also very much outside of myself.

[01:55:28] And you don't have to be good at art to get that feeling.

[01:55:32] You just have to let yourself be creative.

[01:55:36] And, you know, play with the materials.

[01:55:39] Get yourself a set of watercolor paints and just, you know, don't worry about what it's going to look like and see what happens.

[01:55:46] There's a reason why children are natural artists.

[01:55:50] And it's because they don't edit themselves and they don't inhibit themselves.

[01:55:54] And it does a world of good.

[01:55:57] I find it incredibly therapeutic to make art because I tend to be a person who tries to control everything and always make smart decisions.

[01:56:06] And, you know, be reasonable and rational.

[01:56:11] And there's nothing rational about art and painting.

[01:56:16] At least not the way I've been doing it lately.

[01:56:18] And I feel like I've healed a lot of things in my life just by, you know, letting paint swirl around in front of me.

[01:56:27] It has been fun's not the right word.

[01:56:33] But it has been sort of a blessing to kind of be along for the ride, watching some of the stuff that you've created as you've headed from trying things out to having them put in public.

[01:56:50] Which, I mean, I'm not even doing it.

[01:56:54] And it kind of freaks me out a little bit.

[01:56:56] But it's been fun watching you.

[01:56:59] I don't think artists become artists.

[01:57:01] But finding that part of who you are has been kind of a blessing for me at a time where I need as many blessings as I can possibly get.

[01:57:10] But listening to that, and this is not connected at all, but listening to that has made me think of a thing that I've not mentioned that nobody else has mentioned.

[01:57:20] And people ask me, you know, it's my 27th year of being a teacher.

[01:57:23] And people ask me all the time, how do you do it?

[01:57:26] And it's simple.

[01:57:29] Every year there are moments.

[01:57:32] Sometimes it's in the classroom.

[01:57:33] And sometimes it's via email.

[01:57:35] And sometimes as you bump into somebody, there's a moment where you, there's a, it's hard to describe.

[01:57:44] But there's a moment where a current student, a former student, a parent that you taught their child, a grandparent.

[01:57:54] Well, there's a moment where you bump into them and you see a look on their face of just pure thankfulness.

[01:58:03] And before they tell a story about something that you did that you don't remember doing that impacted them.

[01:58:11] And there's a moment, and it's brief because you, my mind immediately goes to that next kid or that next moment.

[01:58:18] But there's a moment where, as a teacher, that you get these magical moments where you realize that what you're doing is sort of like that dandelion that, that Nicholas blew, that you, what you do kind of goes off somewhere else that I love.

[01:58:39] And I blessed, I got to teach both of my kids and their moments with them where one of them will look over at me and say, thanks, dad.

[01:58:48] And it's, it's, it's, it's hard, you know, it's, it's hard doing all of these things that people are talking about.

[01:58:58] But when you find them, it's just such an amazing, amazing thing.

[01:59:03] So anyways, all right, we need to move on because I'm, I'm all verklempt and weepy now.

[01:59:08] Yeah.

[01:59:10] So we're not going to have another episode of, of this podcast anytime soon.

[01:59:16] And so there's not a next witchy question of the week, but I did want to sort of address, you know, at the end of every episode, we say get witchy with it.

[01:59:25] And, and what I mean by that.

[01:59:27] And it's not just a silly play on getting jiggy with it, which is a song that I am very entertained by.

[01:59:34] But to me, when I, when I say get witchy, I mean, the things that I think of that a witch is, isn't just, you know, supernatural powers, magic.

[01:59:50] I think of the fact that witchcraft is about knowledge and about intentionality.

[01:59:58] And it's about connecting with nature.

[02:00:01] It's about connecting with other people.

[02:00:03] It's about creating a coven with like-minded or completely differently minded people where you form a team and work toward a common goal.

[02:00:14] You make each other more powerful.

[02:00:16] You make each other more knowledgeable.

[02:00:18] I think we should all strive to be more witch-like.

[02:00:21] And so that's, that's my call to action for lack of a better word.

[02:00:27] And because I'm feeling cheesy is to go out into the world and, and get a little witchy with things and, and create covens where you can find them and connect with nature and connect with the people around you.

[02:00:38] So I think connect is big.

[02:00:43] And, and, and with the people around you and whatever that looks like, I find myself as strange as it sounds as a teacher being around kids all day, isolated, especially from adults.

[02:00:55] So, um, it's been, you know, since the pandemic, it's, it's been special to be part of this community because I feel close to a lot of you guys.

[02:01:04] And, um, but, but it's also made me start paying attention more to the people who are directly in front of me here in the town that I live in and in the town that I live in when I'm in North Carolina.

[02:01:13] So, um, I agree with that a hundred percent.

[02:01:16] Um, there's an earthiness to it, um, especially to the show that, um, made me feel at home.

[02:01:27] Uh, and, and I think there's just an earthiness to that, that phrase, get witchy with it that I really like.

[02:01:33] Um, and by that, I just mean getting, getting to know the important parts of you.

[02:01:38] You talk about your art, um, and that, that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about.

[02:01:43] So, so yeah, yeah.

[02:01:45] I, I love the phrase.

[02:01:46] Um, I will always sing it in my head whenever we say it and hear background singers going,

[02:01:55] that will always happen.

[02:01:56] Me too.

[02:01:58] Um, but, uh, and maybe that catches the theme of it a little bit.

[02:02:01] So, uh, yeah, it's a good question.

[02:02:04] And, and I don't know, I honestly, I've listened to hundreds of podcasts at Podcastica.

[02:02:11] That might have been the most moved I've ever been.

[02:02:16] Yeah.

[02:02:17] And we haven't even gotten to the feedback yet.

[02:02:20] I know.

[02:02:21] Um, yeah, maybe we should have kept the magic stuff for the end, but, um, let's, let's get

[02:02:28] into listener feedback because that too is magical in its own way.

[02:02:31] Cause it's part of, it's part of community building.

[02:02:34] Do you want to, we, I divided the feedback into episode eight and episode nine.

[02:02:38] So, um, do you want to take, I'm so, I want to take this first one because I paused about

[02:02:43] 48 times during this episode because I haven't been allowed to swear.

[02:02:47] So at least you know where this.

[02:02:49] Yeah.

[02:02:50] If you want to use the word.

[02:02:52] Oh, I'm using it.

[02:02:53] I will chime it out in the edit.

[02:02:55] So go right ahead.

[02:02:56] All right.

[02:02:58] Pake Allen, my man.

[02:03:00] Pake.

[02:03:01] Holy.

[02:03:04] Billy's tell just like his mother creating worlds and realities within one that already

[02:03:09] exists.

[02:03:09] Now, boy, go find your brother.

[02:03:12] Tommy is out there in physical form somewhere without anyone go.

[02:03:17] And also, holy.

[02:03:18] I didn't realize they were dropping both episodes together.

[02:03:21] I thought I had to wait another week.

[02:03:23] And then the finale started on autoplay in Disney plus.

[02:03:25] It's a Halloween miracle onto the finale.

[02:03:29] I will stand by boy.

[02:03:31] Go find your brother.

[02:03:34] Thanks pal.

[02:03:35] Pake.

[02:03:35] Uh, we also heard from Tina Karatzis who said, Oh my God, I gave up on the Marvel spinoffs.

[02:03:42] Not for any particular reason at all.

[02:03:44] As I love them all just started this tonight in love.

[02:03:47] I missed all the coverage and feedback, but we'll listen anyway.

[02:03:50] Of course.

[02:03:51] Thanks Dina.

[02:03:52] I can't wait to hear what you think.

[02:03:54] Uh, after the fact.

[02:03:57] Sarah Werner.

[02:03:58] I'm holding my breath and finally leaving some feedback.

[02:04:02] Oh, yay.

[02:04:02] Thank you so much.

[02:04:03] See, I started that way too.

[02:04:05] Yeah.

[02:04:05] Um, I've been so nervous to actually do this, but I've been listening all along.

[02:04:09] No pun intended.

[02:04:10] We love puns.

[02:04:11] That's fine.

[02:04:11] I've watched each episode with my teenage daughters and we are just in love with this show.

[02:04:16] They also hear pieces of the podcast in the car and encouraged me to just write in.

[02:04:21] Oh, I'm so glad they did.

[02:04:23] So exciting.

[02:04:24] So a shout out to the daughters.

[02:04:27] Oh, that's amazing.

[02:04:28] Thank you.

[02:04:29] So that's awesome.

[02:04:30] Um, uh, I am a big Marvel fan and I've really enjoyed the Marvel TV shows that have come

[02:04:36] out, including WandaVision and She-Hulk, but this is even better.

[02:04:40] And those were amazing shows.

[02:04:42] I am constantly surprised and excited by every twist and turn.

[02:04:45] This really is storytelling at its finest.

[02:04:48] It is warm, inclusive, creepy, loving, mysterious, and magical.

[02:04:55] Anything that I can do with my kids is a win these days.

[02:04:58] And this has been such a great bonding time for us.

[02:05:01] Thanks to you both for the great episode.

[02:05:03] And I can't wait to hear what you have to say about these last two episodes.

[02:05:06] And then a purple heart.

[02:05:08] Thank you so much, Sarah.

[02:05:09] I'm so excited that you wrote in.

[02:05:12] And I hope that you will keep writing into podcasts on the Podcastica network because

[02:05:16] that's how we all started.

[02:05:19] Um, you don't, not everybody goes on to all start podcasting themselves, but it's how we

[02:05:25] all started getting involved with this Podcastica community that has become some of my best friends

[02:05:31] and has been a source of support during the pandemic for me and for a lot of other people.

[02:05:38] And I have just gotten so much out of this podcasting thing.

[02:05:42] I really have fun doing it.

[02:05:45] And I love when new people join the group or when people who've been listening for a long

[02:05:49] time finally speak up.

[02:05:51] Makes me so happy.

[02:05:52] Oh, yes.

[02:05:54] It's kind of cool that I got to be, I, I hear that happen so many times.

[02:05:58] I'm so glad that I was part of that.

[02:06:00] So if you're listening in the car to this and you hear this part, thank you for telling

[02:06:03] your mom to write in.

[02:06:05] Uh, Muddy, uh, our friend Muddy Madavi Muddling wrote in and said, when Agatha claimed to want

[02:06:12] to sacrifice herself, I completely fell for it.

[02:06:14] Just like Billy.

[02:06:15] I hope he never loses his empathy though.

[02:06:18] It's a strength.

[02:06:19] Such a great character.

[02:06:21] Uh, Becky Anderson.

[02:06:23] The showdown was cool.

[02:06:25] I love all the visuals this show has had this season.

[02:06:28] I'm glad Agatha didn't, uh, let death take Billy after all.

[02:06:32] The best part was the end watching Bill.

[02:06:34] Billy realized the truth of the road.

[02:06:36] All I could think of was the usual suspects.

[02:06:38] I literally said, Billy is Kaiser.

[02:06:41] So say to my TV, great reveal and ending with Agatha saying boo behind him was great.

[02:06:47] P.S.

[02:06:49] Penny.

[02:06:49] Thank you so much for mentioning my new podcast on your last episode.

[02:06:53] I can't wait.

[02:06:55] I can't tell you how much I appreciate that.

[02:06:58] You are welcome, Becky.

[02:07:00] And I'm excited for you that you've started the podcasting adventure and Becky will soon

[02:07:04] be a guest host on the still slaying podcast.

[02:07:08] She is going to join us for our coverage of, um, bring it on the, uh, cheerleading competition

[02:07:15] movie because Becky actually was a cheerleader.

[02:07:18] So that would be a really, uh, awesome fit.

[02:07:22] Um, Ezra Sherman says with all the wizard of Oz references, they were telegraphing all

[02:07:28] along that it took place in Billy's head, but we didn't pick up on it.

[02:07:32] The decor in his room wasn't just Easter eggs.

[02:07:35] It was close.

[02:07:36] Love the off brand Susie and the Banshees poster.

[02:07:41] Oh gosh, for sure.

[02:07:44] Um, all right.

[02:07:45] On to episode nine, a muddy again.

[02:07:48] I liked how we see death Rio and a different guys.

[02:07:51] That's true.

[02:07:52] Uh, I don't think they de-aged because I don't think they use CGI, but my gosh, they made

[02:07:59] her look so much younger.

[02:08:00] Yeah.

[02:08:01] Um, just, I love that different.

[02:08:03] I mean, it definitely made her look like the green witch.

[02:08:06] Um, she would obviously choose to show herself in different ways over the years when in the

[02:08:11] mortal realm, probably incorporating local customs and expectations.

[02:08:15] Her fair and wise green maiden facade was beautiful.

[02:08:19] Um, it blew my mind and horrified me learning the origin of the ballad.

[02:08:23] What started as a sweet little song they created and shared out of love was twisted and perverted

[02:08:28] into a tool of manipulation and murder.

[02:08:31] Um, gosh, you couldn't explain.

[02:08:34] Yeah.

[02:08:35] It's any better why.

[02:08:37] Yeah.

[02:08:38] I, and why Agatha didn't want, didn't want to go see her son because of what she did with

[02:08:44] the song.

[02:08:44] Um, Billy and Agatha possibly having a continued journey together would make for a fascinating

[02:08:49] dynamic.

[02:08:50] Amen.

[02:08:51] Amen.

[02:08:51] Amen.

[02:08:52] I love a complex morally gray character, which is definitely Agatha.

[02:08:56] Well, very dark gray.

[02:08:58] RIP Sharon, the garden lady.

[02:09:00] It was a terrible party.

[02:09:04] To the point where I forgot her name for about two minutes in this episode.

[02:09:08] So I apologize, Sharon.

[02:09:10] Muddy again.

[02:09:11] Should have been Agatha new all along.

[02:09:15] Yeah, she did.

[02:09:17] Uh, Danielle Dement Jost writes it and says, I enjoyed these last two episodes for the most

[02:09:22] part, but I find the ghost Agatha thing a bit cheesy shrug emoji.

[02:09:27] I love that Billy created the road essentially the same way Wanda created her version of

[02:09:32] Westview.

[02:09:32] He was terrified of the Salem seven and the door to the road appeared as an escape from

[02:09:36] this terror.

[02:09:37] Not unlike Wanda's escape from her grief.

[02:09:40] I'm a bit confused about Tommy.

[02:09:42] So he couldn't find a body or didn't know how to.

[02:09:46] So his soul, for lack of a better word, is just waiting around.

[02:09:49] Apparently.

[02:09:50] That seems odd.

[02:09:52] I would expect he would just be gone, but we don't really know yet, I suppose.

[02:09:56] I imagine you've seen this variety interview with Jack Schaefer already, but in case you

[02:10:00] haven't, it's a good one.

[02:10:00] Some interesting ideas that didn't make it into the show.

[02:10:03] So we will attach, put that variety article in the show notes.

[02:10:08] It is a, it is a good one, but it's a long read and we had so much feedback to read.

[02:10:14] What's interesting too about that with Tommy is I think they said they were talking about

[02:10:19] Billy.

[02:10:19] If he would be killed, he wouldn't really die.

[02:10:23] His soul or whatever you want to call it would, would float into another body.

[02:10:28] So he just knew how to do it because he's a witch.

[02:10:30] But that is interesting.

[02:10:32] I suppose maybe we'll get an answer to that someday.

[02:10:35] I hope.

[02:10:35] I mean, I know how it works in the comics.

[02:10:38] It's because their souls are parts of Mephisto's soul.

[02:10:42] So they're like extra special souls and not regular human souls.

[02:10:47] Perhaps in this case, it would be because their souls are part of Wanda, right?

[02:10:52] Or something.

[02:10:53] Yeah.

[02:10:54] Okay.

[02:10:55] Becky Anderson.

[02:10:56] Brilliant.

[02:10:57] Loved getting the backstory of the song and the reveal.

[02:11:00] The road was never real.

[02:11:01] Just a con.

[02:11:02] Seeing her with Nikki was so sweet and made sense why she was so fond of teen.

[02:11:07] My favorite moment was when she admitted the reason she wouldn't cross over is because

[02:11:11] she was afraid to face her son.

[02:11:13] Billy making the entrance to the road, a memorial for the fallen witches was so touching.

[02:11:18] Hope they find Tommy.

[02:11:19] I'm going to miss this show so much.

[02:11:21] What a ride.

[02:11:24] Agreed.

[02:11:26] Peg Allen again saying, spent so much of the episode still yelling at Billy to go after

[02:11:31] his brother.

[02:11:32] And then when they finally decide to do so, it's over.

[02:11:35] Damn it.

[02:11:35] LOL.

[02:11:37] Although the Agatha backstory was fascinating, Nikki really was such a sweet soul.

[02:11:41] Maybe the only little bit of humanity in Agatha was because of him.

[02:11:45] And the fact the song was created by Nikki and Agatha and then she used it as a scam.

[02:11:50] Wild.

[02:11:50] Wild.

[02:11:51] I already miss this show a lot.

[02:11:53] I need more.

[02:11:53] I need that reunion.

[02:11:54] Feige, you better give it to me somewhere.

[02:11:56] Somehow.

[02:11:58] Amen.

[02:11:59] Let's hope Kevin Feige is listening to this podcast.

[02:12:03] I'm sure he is.

[02:12:04] I'm sure he is.

[02:12:04] For sure.

[02:12:05] I'm sure they all do.

[02:12:07] Like.

[02:12:07] Yeah.

[02:12:07] Hi, Catherine.

[02:12:08] Hi, Aubrey.

[02:12:09] Yeah.

[02:12:09] Okay.

[02:12:09] Miss Amada, if you're listening to this, we'd love to interview you.

[02:12:12] You're amazing.

[02:12:13] Patty.

[02:12:14] That would make my day.

[02:12:15] I worship the ground you walk on.

[02:12:18] And.

[02:12:19] Ollie on.

[02:12:20] I'm so excited that to have discovered you because you are a revelation.

[02:12:24] Oh, so much.

[02:12:25] So much.

[02:12:26] They clearly heard that.

[02:12:28] Yeah.

[02:12:29] All of them.

[02:12:29] Fingers crossed.

[02:12:30] Amelia Gibson.

[02:12:32] The show has been amazing.

[02:12:33] I've started to rewatch from the beginning and all those little bits that don't seem too

[02:12:37] important at the time now means so much more when Agatha is looking into Nikki's room.

[02:12:41] Oh, my gosh.

[02:12:42] I didn't even think of this.

[02:12:44] Yeah.

[02:12:44] When Agatha is looking into Nikki's room, there is an award for best vocals.

[02:12:49] Oh, my gosh.

[02:12:51] Yeah.

[02:12:51] I just got chill bumps.

[02:12:52] I don't know.

[02:12:56] The room.

[02:12:57] Yeah.

[02:12:58] The room.

[02:12:59] Oh, I got to go watch that episode because he wasn't around then.

[02:13:03] Oh, definitely has more.

[02:13:05] Now I got to go see all of the stuff in his room.

[02:13:08] Yeah.

[02:13:09] His room is like.

[02:13:11] Okay.

[02:13:11] Yeah.

[02:13:12] Oh, my gosh.

[02:13:13] There's clues.

[02:13:14] Remember at the time we were like, these are clues to something.

[02:13:17] We just don't know.

[02:13:18] Yes.

[02:13:19] And then.

[02:13:20] Yeah.

[02:13:22] Oh, gosh.

[02:13:23] Okay.

[02:13:24] Well, thank you, Amelia.

[02:13:25] That was wonderful.

[02:13:26] Definitely has more meaning after the final episode.

[02:13:38] Poor senior scratch.

[02:13:40] Also, who will look after the rabbit now that Agatha is a ghost?

[02:13:45] Well, that's going to live in my brain rent free.

[02:13:47] Yep.

[02:13:48] Great job with the podcast, too.

[02:13:49] I really enjoyed listening each week.

[02:13:51] Can't wait to hear what show you're covering next.

[02:13:55] Well, come join us over on Still Slaying.

[02:13:58] Yes.

[02:14:00] Please.

[02:14:00] And we got an email from Issa Grimoire.

[02:14:04] I'm not sure how to pronounce that.

[02:14:06] Hi.

[02:14:06] I'm a new listener and I'm enjoying your coverage of Agatha all along.

[02:14:10] I thought I would share it with you if you haven't seen it yet.

[02:14:13] But Jack Schaefer explained how Agatha's siphon power works in the House of R podcast.

[02:14:18] Oh, okay.

[02:14:18] Here's a transcript of the relevant part.

[02:14:22] So I have not listened to House of R podcast, but I'm excited to hear this.

[02:14:26] So I think that she, there's something kind of animalistic about her power to me.

[02:14:31] It's very tied to appetite.

[02:14:33] I see her as a woman who can't get full.

[02:14:35] And I think when she takes Alice, she's so hungry at that time.

[02:14:39] And it's such a surprise.

[02:14:41] You know, normally she cons witches.

[02:14:43] They blast her.

[02:14:44] She takes it, the power.

[02:14:45] But she, Agatha, gets blasted out of nowhere.

[02:14:48] It feels so good.

[02:14:49] And she's powerful.

[02:14:50] This is the source of her power.

[02:14:52] So I do believe her.

[02:14:53] And in our discussions, that was the thing, is when she says to Billy, I couldn't control it.

[02:14:57] She means it.

[02:14:59] I also see that as a moment of vulnerability.

[02:15:01] And it's tragic to me that Billy doesn't believe her.

[02:15:05] You know, that's one of those sort of disconnected, sort of a disconnect.

[02:15:09] But I think she's able to turn it off with Billy just to get in the weeds about MCU power.

[02:15:14] He, Billy, has chaos magic.

[02:15:16] So she gets fuller with him.

[02:15:18] She gets so much from him.

[02:15:20] And it's a bottomless well.

[02:15:22] So, you know, I think at that moment she can stop.

[02:15:25] And I think she does stop because it's him.

[02:15:27] But I think she's gotten enough where she can be in her full look and her full glory and feel like herself.

[02:15:33] And, okay, that's the end of the transcript.

[02:15:35] And then the moment when Agatha kisses Rio is apparently Agatha's power evolving.

[02:15:41] We've never seen Agatha take power in that way.

[02:15:43] And I would point that I wouldn't really call it progress as much as I would call it kind of an evolution.

[02:15:49] Anyway, I just wanted to share this.

[02:15:51] I hope it's helpful.

[02:15:52] Cheers, Issa.

[02:15:53] Thank you, Issa.

[02:15:54] And I'm so excited that you're a new listener.

[02:15:56] So thank you.

[02:15:58] That was great.

[02:15:59] I like the idea of the kiss being an evolution of the power and maybe a way for Agatha to become a ghost.

[02:16:07] That's good.

[02:16:08] I like that.

[02:16:09] From Jess, subject, emotional support needed.

[02:16:14] Yes, I can cry in email.

[02:16:16] New skill unlocked.

[02:16:18] Well, we can obviously cry in podcast, though.

[02:16:23] Yeah, seriously.

[02:16:24] I literally have been trying to send a voice message for the last 10 minutes.

[02:16:28] I just couldn't stop crying.

[02:16:30] Thank you for the conversation and the coverage for this show.

[02:16:33] I am a single mom with a son.

[02:16:35] I almost died.

[02:16:39] Jim's having a hard time with this one.

[02:16:43] I almost died giving birth to him.

[02:16:45] This hit me so hard.

[02:16:46] Literally crying all over again.

[02:16:48] I love you guys.

[02:16:48] Thank you, Penny and Jim.

[02:16:50] Jessica from Fayette.

[02:16:53] Thank you so much for sending that.

[02:16:55] And we were crying right along with you.

[02:16:57] And right now, too.

[02:16:59] Yeah.

[02:17:00] I am so grateful for all this amazing feedback that we got and people sharing, you know, things that are meaningful to them.

[02:17:12] And even though this series is wrapped up for now, Jim and I will return.

[02:17:19] He's going to become a much more regular part of the Still Slaying podcast as we go into season four of Buffy and season one of Angel.

[02:17:26] And there will be other projects in the future.

[02:17:30] Podcastica is constantly growing and adding more podcasts.

[02:17:34] And, you know, I seem to not be able to say no to any podcast.

[02:17:39] So I'm sure I'll be doing future Marvel ones again and some other shows that are interesting.

[02:17:46] My only regret at the moment is that I just did not have the bandwidth to cover Dune Prophecy.

[02:17:51] But there will be other shows in the future.

[02:17:56] I will say that as I was reading these and we were we were talking you were talking about get what you with it.

[02:18:04] What it means.

[02:18:04] Guys, we kind of create our own little coven here.

[02:18:07] And I'm so so I you talk about, you know, siphoning power.

[02:18:14] Like, I do get an energy from doing this.

[02:18:18] And believe me, there was so many random things happening over the past couple of weeks after the show.

[02:18:25] And honestly, the first thing that happened was.

[02:18:30] Sort of similar to what happened to Agatha in the show is the show ended.

[02:18:34] I sort of felt like her like sitting next to the grave of the show.

[02:18:37] And I was like, now what the hell am I going to do?

[02:18:40] And then the election came kind of like the other witch.

[02:18:43] Yeah, I had to start destroying.

[02:18:46] And and again, I don't want to talk politics, but that led to my laptop troubles, which I truly believe that these little.

[02:18:59] Isolated events, not even little happened.

[02:19:02] I spilled coffee on my laptop, which put me out another week and it got us to here.

[02:19:10] Assuredly, that helped with the amount of feedback that we got.

[02:19:13] And I'm so happy about that because I don't know that I've had in the past six months, not including my family.

[02:19:21] I don't know that I've had a more powerful like 45 minutes than the ones just listening to you guys talk about the show.

[02:19:28] So I appreciate it so much.

[02:19:30] I'm just going to stop there because I'm going to get.

[02:19:32] Yeah, we're a little bit clumped.

[02:19:37] That is our show and the end of the season.

[02:19:40] Podcastica will continue to cover Marvel series and movies on this podcast feed.

[02:19:45] I don't know what's coming up next.

[02:19:48] I know the next Marvel show that comes out is What If? Season 3, but I don't know if anyone's covering it.

[02:19:53] And then Vision is sometime after that.

[02:19:56] But watch this space.

[02:19:58] More to come.

[02:19:59] If you want to join the conversation, you can email or send a voice memo to agatha at podcastica.com.

[02:20:05] Or of course, you can find us at podcastica.com.

[02:20:08] And of course, while you're there, look around and check out all the other shows.

[02:20:12] There are so many podcastica shows to choose from.

[02:20:16] There's a little something for everyone.

[02:20:18] There's, you know, a lot of dark series and sci-fi.

[02:20:23] You know, we cover podcastica covers Walking Dead and Stranger Things and all of the Mike Flanagan horror shows on Netflix.

[02:20:30] But we also cover Cobra Kai and Great British Bake Off and, you know, various Marvel TV shows and things that are light and things that are dark and things that are very adult and things that are family oriented.

[02:20:44] So, you know, check around and see what appeals to you.

[02:20:48] And we love new listeners.

[02:20:50] Yeah, definitely.

[02:20:51] Listen, if you watch Karate Kid and you love Cobra Kai, I mean, we've got nine episodes left.

[02:21:01] So please check that podcast out.

[02:21:03] It's wonderful.

[02:21:05] And gosh, there's so many more.

[02:21:07] Thank you again for listening, everyone.

[02:21:09] And until next time.

[02:21:11] I'm Jim.

[02:21:12] And I'm Penny.

[02:21:14] And remember.

[02:21:16] Get witchy with it.