"Halloween Party" (Squid Game S2E2)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm.

[00:00:04] Podcastica!

[00:00:08] Pukkiya, this is your one. Pukkiya, this is your one. Pukkiya, this is the one.

[00:00:16] I'm going to eat it, really. No, this pig is a pig. It's a fire. It's my one.

[00:00:58] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Veronica.

[00:01:02] This episode, Recovering Squid Game, Season 2, Episode 2, Halloween Party.

[00:01:07] On New Year's Eve Day.

[00:01:09] I know, that's kind of cool. It had a New Year's Eve vibe.

[00:01:12] It's a double. I know. It had more of a New Year's Eve vibe than a Halloween vibe.

[00:01:16] I thought it was going to be... I thought it was some kind of Squid Game-related gathering, you know,

[00:01:24] that already was on the books and that Gi-hun was going to dress up and infiltrate in his costume,

[00:01:32] you know? Yeah.

[00:01:34] I wonder if they knew that's what we would think. I don't know. But really, I think

[00:01:38] the whole reason for having it be a Halloween party... Because I was surprised Gi-hun showed up

[00:01:43] without his mask on, right? And I'm like, I guess he doesn't care about them...

[00:01:48] He wants to be recognized. But I think the reason to have it be a Halloween party was just so you

[00:01:53] could have these Squid Game officers walking around and nobody would think about it, you know?

[00:01:59] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:01] Yeah. Who was it? Was it Barbie that dressed up as one of the...

[00:02:05] No.

[00:02:06] Yeah.

[00:02:07] No.

[00:02:07] Was it?

[00:02:07] No.

[00:02:08] No, it was Franca.

[00:02:10] Franca.

[00:02:10] Yeah.

[00:02:10] Yeah. I kept hoping one of them would whip their mask off and it'd just be Franca.

[00:02:14] Oh, hey. That was so cool. Oh, by the way, I don't know if people are tuned in to what's

[00:02:19] up with this podcast, but I will probably be on every one of them and David, Veronica,

[00:02:25] and Daphne in various combinations will be on other ones. So here's Veronica and you know,

[00:02:31] we all podcasted about season one too. And then Karen might jump in on one at some point too.

[00:02:36] That'll be funny.

[00:02:37] Because we all love the show. Yeah. So let's get into it. Do you want to read the plot summary?

[00:02:42] Sure.

[00:02:44] Gi-hun, Jun-ho, and Wu-suk. Wu-suk? Is that right?

[00:02:48] It sounds... Yeah. I just say Choi. That's in the...

[00:02:52] Oh, Choi. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I have in my notes today. And Choi discover a lead from

[00:02:56] the recruiter's jacket pointing to a Halloween party. Choi recruits a team of mercenaries.

[00:03:02] Gi-hun implants a tracker in himself and the three devise a plan to locate the front man.

[00:03:07] Meanwhile, Gi-hun continues to look after Sang-woo's mother and Se-biak's little brother,

[00:03:12] Choi. He works with a broker to reunite Choi with his mother from the North and places a silent call

[00:03:18] to his estranged daughter. The team infiltrates the Halloween party where Gi-hun is escorted by one

[00:03:23] of the game's pink-clad soldiers into a limousine with his team in pursuit. He confronts the front

[00:03:29] man via a speaker demanding an end to the games. When the vehicles following him are shot down,

[00:03:35] Gi-hun requests to be returned to the games as a player. Kang-no-ol, a North Korean defector who seeks

[00:03:41] to extract her daughter from the North enters the game as a soldier.

[00:03:46] What did you think?

[00:03:48] I thought it was great. I was a little concerned after the first episode that

[00:03:55] the guy who created it, Hwang Dong-hyuk, was like, oh no, I gotta make another one,

[00:04:00] which we do. But after this episode, I felt more like, oh, you know, he's got a good idea for

[00:04:06] the evolution of this series and some were interesting to go with it. And I felt much

[00:04:11] better about it. So I really enjoyed it. I thought it was started off kind of boring, you know? It

[00:04:16] didn't really have that intensity of a lot of Squid Game episodes, but especially on second watch,

[00:04:23] I was really getting into all the details and thinking about where I could go from here.

[00:04:28] Yeah. Nice. What about you?

[00:04:30] I felt, I felt similarly, like, I accidentally heard chatter that people weren't loving this

[00:04:36] season. And so I went into watching episode one, like a little like, oh no, is this going to be

[00:04:42] bad? And I actually loved it. Like I listened to you guys, your coverage and feel like last week

[00:04:48] that I maybe liked it even more than you guys did. Like I didn't have the same disappointments that

[00:04:54] some of you did, like in the lack of sort of, like, I think David commented on the lack of like

[00:05:01] attachment to the characters, but I didn't, I didn't need that. Like to me, the rock, paper,

[00:05:06] scissors game was just chilling because I was picturing what it would be like myself to be in

[00:05:10] that situation. I need to play that with my kids. I've planned on, because I had Nico watch it, he's 13.

[00:05:18] And I meant to say, let's play it without the Russian roulette part.

[00:05:22] I was like, without the Russian roulette, right? Right.

[00:05:24] I haven't gotten a chance to yet. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[00:05:25] No, no, that was, I mean, that was kind of it. Just that, like, I really enjoyed it.

[00:05:29] I liked it. I think I liked episode one more than this episode. Although on rewatch, I liked it more.

[00:05:36] I just was confused a lot. Like I didn't understand Gi-hun's plan. I, like you, I thought the Halloween

[00:05:43] party was going to be completely a squid games related event. And so I didn't understand what's

[00:05:47] happening. I didn't really know where the Noel, Noel, I'm not sure how to pronounce that exactly.

[00:05:55] The amusement park worker. I didn't understand where her storyline was going, but then at the

[00:05:59] end when it was revealed, like then I felt more like excited and so on rewatch, like I paid more

[00:06:06] attention to her storyline because I was like, Ooh, I want to see where this goes versus her just being

[00:06:11] like a player. Yeah. Yeah. She just seemed like yet another desperate person playing the squid

[00:06:16] games. And then you find out she's a worker and Oh, I totally did not see that happening until she

[00:06:22] started to pull the fucking mask on. I was like, Oh my God. I was like, Oh, they have a different

[00:06:27] like recruitment method. People just come like turn themselves into these lockers. It wasn't adding

[00:06:33] up. It was like, how does she know what this is? A guy just knocked on her window and gave her

[00:06:37] the card and now she says she wants to join and, uh, I don't get it. Yeah. So that was great.

[00:06:46] Yeah. Uh, yeah. I mean, I, I think last week the whole bread lottery was so fascinating to watch and

[00:06:54] horrible and yeah, the rock scissors paper, like that's classic squid game fucked upness. And so, um,

[00:07:02] now that I'm more on board with the show, I, I, I think I like those even better, but this episode,

[00:07:08] I felt like had more substance. So we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. All right. So, um, why don't

[00:07:14] we go into our points? Do you want to go first or do you want me to go first? Uh, you can go

[00:07:19] first. Okay. Gihuna is a populist hero bucking the system. Um, this is why I say this is a,

[00:07:28] I think this is a good evolution of the series because, uh, I think squid, the squid game itself

[00:07:35] is kind of a metaphor for wider society, disparity of wealth, unfair things that happen to people

[00:07:43] in society, not just in the squid game because of that. And, um, I think the first season is about a

[00:07:49] victim of the system, Gihun who ends up becoming empowered. And then the second season seems like

[00:07:54] it's going to be about him trying to upend the system. We don't know how we can talk more about

[00:08:00] what we think he's got in mind. I kind of liked that he's not spelling it out. Cause then we get

[00:08:04] to see it unfold. Yeah. I mean, my guess is he's going to go kill those VIPs, but I don't know.

[00:08:11] Like, does that even solve the issue? Like, I think that's, that's what makes it exciting. I guess,

[00:08:18] is that like, how do you really end the squid games? Like how, how realistically, because

[00:08:24] initially he goes in to, to capture the front man and the front man's like, that's not going to end

[00:08:28] it. It's the VIPs, but like, you could, I don't think we can convince that level of corrupted.

[00:08:36] When we, we met the VIPs last season, that type of people, like, are they going to be convinced

[00:08:43] the same way O.L. Nam was on his deathbed? You know, like, I'm just curious how it ends. How do

[00:08:50] you really end the squid games? And so I think that makes it exciting. And can it even have a

[00:08:54] happy ending? Like, can this show even have a, it'd be a, it'd be a big twist if the VIPs

[00:09:01] take off their masks and it's like Elon Musk and Bill Gates. I mean, I feel like that's who it's

[00:09:07] like Mark Zuckerberg. No, right. Like Larry Ellison. Um, so I say he's a populist hero.

[00:09:16] A populist is a person who appeals to ordinary people who think they're, they're disregarded by

[00:09:23] elites and that can be elites because of academia. But in this case, I would say it's, you know,

[00:09:31] about the rich and the powerful and, um, and he's really in tune this season. I think more than last

[00:09:39] season, more aware Gihun is of the unfairness of the world. And you can tell that by his conversation

[00:09:46] with Inho and the limo, and he's not, he's not going to sit back and take it. And I feel like the

[00:09:53] show's similar to the handmaid's tale. This is the first time I've ever had that thought, but

[00:09:56] they're both about a person caught up in this situation where they're powerless at the hands

[00:10:02] of these cold hearted elite and they end up in these sick and twisted situations. And then they

[00:10:09] end up fighting back. Yeah. Like, Oh, I guess I like that kind of show. Cause I'm podcasting on both.

[00:10:15] Um, in how this is kind of a bit of a long one, but in host says, all we did was create the game.

[00:10:21] All of you participated by choice and Gihun says, don't give me that shit. You manipulate people who

[00:10:27] feel like they're at a dead end. You drive them to their deaths and enjoy it. So he really,

[00:10:32] he's got no doubt that no, it's not us that we're not at fault for why this is happening.

[00:10:39] And like I said, it's, it's a metaphor for society. I think about the word oligarchy a lot lately,

[00:10:44] where it's about a small group of people having control over a country organization or institution.

[00:10:50] And I'm going to get a little bit real world here because I think one of the things about

[00:10:54] the squid game is it's a reflection of the real world. And so like in the U S the richest people

[00:11:01] can now put as much money as they want into politics to get the people they want elected

[00:11:06] after citizens United took away restrictions on how much money could go into politics.

[00:11:11] They can lobby politicians, i.e. bribe them to do what they want. Uh, the richest man in the world,

[00:11:18] Elon Musk bought a social media platform for $45 billion and put out a ton of campaign stuff on

[00:11:26] there. A lot of it misinformation to get his candidate elected. He also spent $277 million

[00:11:31] I read on the campaign and got a role in that government. Yeah. Now he's at his right hand

[00:11:37] directing policy. If that is not an oligarchy, I don't know what is that is an oligarchy. You know

[00:11:42] what I mean? So, um, and, and, and the squid game itself can only happen because of this kind

[00:11:47] of disparity of wealth. You need poor people who are desperate to survive and people rich enough

[00:11:52] to fund this game and provide the prize money. And we have that. I think the reason we have that

[00:11:59] disparity of wealth is we have a system that, uh, enables and encourages it. It's Darwinistic.

[00:12:07] It it's rewards, ruthless competition, self-interest, a willingness to prioritize profit over people.

[00:12:14] It values accumulation of wealth over fairness, individual success over collective wellbeing,

[00:12:23] uh, short-term gains over long-term sustainability and, and people who succeed in that kind of system

[00:12:28] do it often at the expense of others. They consolidate power and wealth, but they leave the majority to

[00:12:33] struggle with limited opportunities, increasing more and more limited. So the cycle of inequality

[00:12:38] is perpetuated. And in ho says to, uh, G who in the game will not end unless the world changes.

[00:12:45] And I'm like, well, how would the real world change? And I think about like, not like we need

[00:12:53] policies. We need a government that prioritizes collective wellbeing over cutthroat competition,

[00:12:58] fair wages, universal healthcare, access to healthcare and education, uh, even progressive

[00:13:05] taxation to redistribute wealth among the people more equitably. People think, oh, you're talking

[00:13:10] about communism or socialism, but the U S used to be more like this. It's a combination of capitalism

[00:13:17] with some socialist aspects. It's called social democracy. And that doesn't mean that, I mean,

[00:13:26] we can all still have private property, privately owned businesses, but balance that with programs

[00:13:32] that keep everyone secure, like a safety net, you know, and it doesn't have to be that only cutthroat

[00:13:39] people have power and everyone else struggles. We can have a society that's more equitable. We're all

[00:13:44] kinds of talents flourish where everyone is comfortable and secure where things that aren't

[00:13:49] necessarily the most profitable profitable. I mean, even as a kid, I was like, I don't want to have to be a

[00:13:54] cutthroat. I want to be able to do things that I want to do that aren't all about profit all the time,

[00:14:00] you know? So anyway, um, of course, Gihun, I don't think he's going to implement some kind of new

[00:14:07] government system. I, uh, but he, he wants to do something. He says, but he already is doing something

[00:14:14] like in the theme of what you're saying, like you see it in the episode and the sort of the lives

[00:14:20] that he's touching. And maybe it's too on the nose within the narrative of the story, but in the

[00:14:25] broader picture of the themes you're talking about, like, look at the two thugs from season one,

[00:14:30] that now that their resources are not scarce, they're actually like not being that terrible.

[00:14:36] Like the guy who was trying to cut his organs out in season one, he and all his lackeys, like,

[00:14:42] like at the very least, Gihun has kept all these like gangsters off the streets doing bad stuff

[00:14:48] because they're out looking for one guy. Right. It's like a social program for gangsters or

[00:14:54] something. And then the broker, same thing, which it was a little unbelievable again. Like, I don't

[00:14:59] know as far as like story narrative, but in the theme of what you're saying, when people aren't

[00:15:04] freaking desperate for the base resources, like, I think you can be more communal and like

[00:15:10] compassionate or more about each other and compassionate because you're not like having

[00:15:15] to hoard stuff because you're not scared of like not being able to make ends meet.

[00:15:19] Yeah.

[00:15:20] And there is some like inherent human nature to hoard resources. Like I'm not under some

[00:15:25] false pre-senses that we're all going to hold hands and there aren't still going to be people

[00:15:29] that want to hoard the resources. Like, I think we always have to battle that, but I don't know.

[00:15:35] I thought maybe that was like a theme the show was trying to hit with those people

[00:15:38] that we're seeing sort of change this season.

[00:15:42] They're, they're really pushing certain themes. Pushing sounds bad, but it's interesting to me.

[00:15:48] And I think, I feel like you're hitting on something like to hoard those resources. I feel

[00:15:55] like there's a fear underneath it and, and, and it's not just a fear. Well, it's a fear that everyone,

[00:16:02] like they keep saying, you know, those people are trash and to be the kind of person who hoards

[00:16:10] wealth behaves in a cutthroat way. You have to not care about people. You have to not have much

[00:16:16] compassion. You have to think that people who aren't cutthroat, like you are losers and trash,

[00:16:21] or at least maybe even think the ones that are cutthroat are, are trash too, but they're the ones

[00:16:26] that, that you can't manipulate and control. And I think it all stems from a self hatred, honestly.

[00:16:33] But anyway, like if you can, this sounds so corny, but when you open up your heart to people,

[00:16:40] like you have to feel like you're in a secure place, like you're saying to, to be able to even

[00:16:44] entertain the idea of doing that, but then you won't want to, then you'll care more. And the reason

[00:16:50] why I say that's part of the theme is when Gi-hun offers more money to Jun-ho or money at all,

[00:16:59] you know, you can have as much of this as you want, if you help me. And he says the same thing

[00:17:03] to Choi and they both say, Oh, we don't, it's not about money for us. And I believe them. And then

[00:17:08] even the broker guy that we're going to talk about, who's helping people get back from North Korea,

[00:17:12] they offer him money. He's all, no, no, you've already given me enough. I think the point of hitting

[00:17:17] on that a few times in this episode is to show that not everyone prioritizes profit and accumulation

[00:17:23] of wealth. And so it's just to show that, you know, we don't have to put all of our focus on

[00:17:31] that. It is, there is this possibility that we can just be kind to each other that we can, yes,

[00:17:36] strive to get enough for ourselves, but not all of it at the expense of anyone else having anything,

[00:17:42] you know? One thing that you said last week, when you guys were talking about the recruiter,

[00:17:49] that sort of, again, I think hit on these same themes, but like something that we haven't talked

[00:17:53] about yet was, uh, you were talking about the recruiter and how he was calling the contestants

[00:18:00] of the game trash. Like they use that again, this episode from the front man and something both the

[00:18:06] recruiter and the front man have in common is that like, they are not the rich elite, or at least,

[00:18:11] they were not, that's not where they came from. But they both have this intense hatred of the

[00:18:17] contestants in the game who make the front man is literally one of them. And the recruiter did not

[00:18:22] come from much better. Like if you sort of think about what he recounted and even his own father

[00:18:28] needing to be in the games suggest he did not come from like an advantaged family. And so like,

[00:18:35] this is almost like, I think this is the important societal commentary that it's actually,

[00:18:41] you said the elite rich don't even think about the contestants. Like it's not really a,

[00:18:46] it's not hitting on their radar, but it's these middlemen, these dogs of the elite doing what the

[00:18:52] elites say that have the intense hatred of the people who literally came from where they're from.

[00:18:57] Mm hmm. I'm glad you called them dogs. Cause it's like, it also is sort of like the dog eat dog world.

[00:19:03] They see everyone else as it's me or him, you know?

[00:19:08] And so, I mean, but I think we see that in our society where we see like middle class and particularly

[00:19:13] like new upper middle class, like people that have sort of shifted themselves maybe from like

[00:19:20] either lower class or lower middle class up to the upper middle class that I see like the most intense

[00:19:27] hatred for people who rely on like government programs or things like that. And, and to me,

[00:19:35] like that's keeping really the people who are actually still all at the bottom because even that

[00:19:41] like upper middle class is really not that different from the lower class when you add in

[00:19:47] like the Elon Musk's of the world. And so I think like that's keeping us pitted against each other.

[00:19:54] So we don't focus on the people who like care so little about us that they don't even think about

[00:20:01] us as trash. They just don't think about us. They're only putting us against each other,

[00:20:05] just like in the school game. And man, it's so weird. I was at a holiday party a couple of days ago

[00:20:13] and this one friend of ours, who's super conservative and we've known since we were kids,

[00:20:20] got drunk and he was talking to me about politics. He really wanted to get into it with me. Just

[00:20:25] really wanted to. And I was getting pretty heated because it's hard for me not to, but

[00:20:30] he started talking about what if, um, you know, all the people down on this one street in our town

[00:20:36] who are, uh, homeless and on drugs, what if we just took them and put them in this program

[00:20:42] where they had the choice. You can either stay here until you, it's like rehab until you're not

[00:20:49] addicted anymore. And you have to stay. You can't leave unless you're not addicted anymore,

[00:20:54] or you can just die. And I was like, wow, that's really dark, man. That's like right out of the squid

[00:21:01] game. I mean, that's just clearly someone who has not been personally touched by addiction has not seen

[00:21:09] up close and what that actually like does to a person, you know, like that's that disconnect from

[00:21:14] the compassion because you haven't stopped to like examine what you're saying.

[00:21:18] He was calling them. He's like, they have no purpose. They have no use. And wow, that was a

[00:21:25] interesting conversation.

[00:21:28] But that's exactly the thing that like that situation, like he's not the elite upper class,

[00:21:35] you know, he's pitting himself against people that aren't that different from him thinking they're trash

[00:21:41] so that he's distracted from the bigger problems. Right. Like, yeah, but I, I also, I think, um,

[00:21:48] he's my friend. So I hate to say too much more about it, but I do think a lot of times

[00:21:54] that kind of thinking comes from a self hatred and you project it out onto the people around you and

[00:22:01] a, and a fear and things, you know, those kinds of darker, lower vibration emotions. Um, the last

[00:22:07] thing about this point is just, it was pretty thrilling to hear Gi-hun say, put me back in the

[00:22:12] game. And, uh, and then the way that he convinced, I mean, maybe in how already had an idea he was

[00:22:20] going to do that. Otherwise why even meet in person in a limo where the gas is ready to go. But, um,

[00:22:25] he said, you know, if I'm back in the game, those fat cats you serve will find it fun for sure. So

[00:22:30] take me to the games. And that was just the way to get in how to say yes, by appealing to the people

[00:22:34] who pay his check. Like it's a profit motive. Well, I guess in how it doesn't care about the money

[00:22:39] anymore, but the games are for the entertainment of these VIPs and that's what they would find

[00:22:45] entertaining. So yeah, do it. And he even baited it as a game in and of itself, like putting him

[00:22:52] back in the game was a game for in in ho to win. Like how exactly he phrased it, but he's like,

[00:22:59] beat me the way Oh, ill nom couldn't or something like that. Basically saying like, prove me wrong.

[00:23:04] And so he almost like played the game mentality back on him, which I thought was interesting.

[00:23:11] Yeah. I think he was just saying, I beat Oh ill nom because he had played that game with Oh ill nom

[00:23:18] about whether someone would help the homeless person, which another that's sort of that same

[00:23:21] theme about whether people are trash or not. Uh, uh, Gihun was basically betting. No, people are good.

[00:23:27] They're compassionate and he won. And now he's saying, do you think I can win against you or not?

[00:23:32] Basically saying, if you bring me back into the game, will it come back to bite you in the ass? Or will

[00:23:36] you prevail over me or something like that? I think that's what he was getting at.

[00:23:41] Okay. What do you got for your first point? Um, I don't know. Let's talk a little bit about

[00:23:46] Kang Noel. Is that how you're saying it? I would say Noel, Noel, but I don't know.

[00:23:52] Noel. Um, so as I said, like when we were starting the episode, I felt a little like,

[00:23:58] why are we getting this long drawn out storyline? And I actually, I think I'm just misunderstood

[00:24:05] or missed some of the subtleties of what was going on here. Um, like at first I was like,

[00:24:12] why does she have this sort of preoccupation with this little girl? Like how often is this girl at

[00:24:17] the amusement park? And then like on second watch, I was like, you're such an idiot. This is one of

[00:24:21] the other workers' daughters. So she's here every day. So that's why she has that relationship.

[00:24:27] And then, so she obviously has the soft spot for this little girl. The little girl has leukemia.

[00:24:32] And so she's going back in the games, presumably, or no, she's going into the games as a keeper,

[00:24:38] presumably to get money for the treatment for this little girl. Since she basically, I'm,

[00:24:45] I think her daughter is probably at least three, the little girl she left in North Korea.

[00:24:50] If she's alive.

[00:24:52] Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Cause she was one when she got out, right?

[00:24:55] She was one. And then one of the workers said they'd worked with her at least two years at the

[00:25:00] amusement park when she was quitting. Um, and so, I mean, I just feel like it was a really lot,

[00:25:08] a large part of the episode dedicated to this sort of backstory. I didn't find terribly compelling,

[00:25:17] but I'm excited, like, I'm excited that we're going to get to see one of the like gamekeepers

[00:25:23] and kind of how that's recruited. But I don't know. I just didn't, I'm curious what you thought,

[00:25:30] like, did it catch you from the beginning? Did you understand why we were following this whole story?

[00:25:35] I mean, yeah, I, I just thought it was another story of another person and we're seeing motivations for her,

[00:25:45] but I'm still not exactly sure what to think because, uh, well there, I have a few questions.

[00:25:54] One is she's Kang Noel Noel and that Kang is the surname or what we call the last name.

[00:26:02] And that's also Sebyuk surname. So are they related or is that a coincidence? If it's a coincidence,

[00:26:09] it's just, I'm like, why, why would you have that be a coincidence and confuse us like that? Maybe it's

[00:26:13] a common name in North Korea, but, um, what's up with that? I don't know. I didn't catch that,

[00:26:22] but they both were going to the same broker literally back to back. And so if she was,

[00:26:28] did Sebyuk go to him too? Sebyuk went to him too. She like threatened him, I think in season one.

[00:26:34] Same guy. And then like Gi-hun was there literally looking at pictures of Sebyuk's mom on the phone

[00:26:44] with the broker. He leaves as Noel comes up the stairs. So if this was somehow a relation to them,

[00:26:53] would the broker not have mentioned it? Yeah. I, I, that's why I'm confused.

[00:26:57] Like, Hey, I know some of your family.

[00:26:59] Right. Um,

[00:27:01] He seemed like the point was that he is a good person. So I, I don't know. That's one question

[00:27:07] I have. Um, uh, I did find it, I guess kind of interesting that she's seemingly tried to kill

[00:27:15] herself. Um, she has marks on her wrist. Multiple times. Yeah.

[00:27:19] She took, we saw her took a whole bottle of pills. Well,

[00:27:24] I feel like we needed to see her throw that up to understand what was, cause I was like,

[00:27:28] is she trying to overdose right now? Yeah. I didn't know for sure about that or if it was just like

[00:27:33] an extra large dose, but she'd be fine or what? Um, I was also wondering, and now we know the answer

[00:27:40] to this, but why did that guy just knock on her window and give her the card? What about the

[00:27:47] subway doc G what's going on here? You know, but that ended up being really satisfying when we saw

[00:27:51] the answer to that, uh, with the little kid who was super cute by the way. And I loved her reactions

[00:27:58] to things so good. Um, then, uh, you know, Noel quits her job. We think, well, so she, see,

[00:28:13] the thing is where I'm confused. She offered the broker more money, so she had money to give him.

[00:28:20] So, and he didn't need it. So I'm like, well, it seems like more money is not going to help in that

[00:28:25] situation. So what you're saying is you think she quit because of this little girl and decided to do

[00:28:32] the squid game, which I think you're probably right, but it confused me why she burned that picture.

[00:28:41] I, I don't know. I felt like, yeah, I didn't understand the picture. I guess just like,

[00:28:46] I'm getting rid of all my belongings. I'm going off to do this. I hope I can send money back to them,

[00:28:51] but why not keep the picture? And then like the guy didn't explain to her when she rolled the window

[00:28:58] down. Like he didn't explain the situation to her, did he? But she already knew she could quit her job.

[00:29:04] I think she knew her routine. And then, cause she didn't call the number until after she quit

[00:29:09] her job. I don't know. It was just kind of strange. I mean, hopefully we find out more. I mean,

[00:29:14] there's a lot of things last episode that I felt like were left us questions that we already got

[00:29:18] the answers to this episode. So maybe we'll understand some of these things, but I don't know.

[00:29:25] I think she quit her job knowing, okay, I'm going to go do the squid game now as a worker. You know,

[00:29:30] that's what I took from it, even though she hadn't called yet, she knew the routine. But, um,

[00:29:35] another thing is interesting to me. So she, I just love the way they did this, where she enters this

[00:29:40] truck and we're like, well, what, how does she know to go in there? And then she gets in that

[00:29:44] chamber and it's one Oh one one. And then she puts the uniform on. And that's when they played

[00:29:49] the squid game music that I don't think we've heard up until now. And it totally brings back like,

[00:29:54] Oh my God, that place, you know, what a great just way to, Oh man, that really got me at the end

[00:29:59] there. But then she has a triangle on her mask, which means that the circles are the, um, peons

[00:30:07] who have to drag the bodies away. The triangles are the armed ones. They're soldiers who enforce

[00:30:13] a picture of her in uniform in North Korea with her husband and aren't most North Korean citizens like

[00:30:20] trained in military defense. Like, isn't it required to serve in the military? So maybe that's why she

[00:30:26] automatically got pulled in. Cause she's probably had, has experience with a weapon.

[00:30:30] Maybe, but we heard doctor, you guys say he had to be a peon for a while until they gave him a gun,

[00:30:35] you know? So maybe she's been doing it for a while. I don't know. Maybe, Oh, maybe she's going

[00:30:40] back. Maybe that's why she knew. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's how she got out of North Korea to

[00:30:45] begin with. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe she's only done it for the last two years. Um, but those triangle

[00:30:51] people are the ones who execute the losers. Uh, so, you know, we also found out from

[00:31:00] doctor guy that he's a sleaze bag who thinks everyone's trash and killed his own father.

[00:31:05] And, um, Daphne last time speculated that maybe they promote people who have that mindset.

[00:31:16] So it's starting to make me wonder, I don't think that this Noel has that mindset necessarily, but I'm

[00:31:23] not sure. I didn't even think about that. You know, maybe she's actually be, I mean, that'd be like a

[00:31:31] really cool and surprising twist if she's actually like a dark character. I mean, she did have to

[00:31:38] flee cause she had, didn't she like attack her boss or something? Although I don't think that

[00:31:43] is anything I make a judgment on in someone living in North Korea. But she burned that picture. So

[00:31:50] I'm like, was that just, yeah. Like you said, to get rid of your possessions before you go. Or was it

[00:31:54] like, eh, forget this kid. I don't know. I don't know what to think. I think I'm probably just

[00:31:58] missing something, but I don't know. Yeah. I took it as no amount of money is going to save her

[00:32:04] daughter or help her find her, even if she is alive, it seems. And so like what she can do

[00:32:10] is get enough money possibly to save this other little girl, like, you know, just sort of trying

[00:32:16] to take some of her power back, even though it's not her daughter to help. But that would be the most

[00:32:23] boring solution. And I think it's probably right, but I would, I think I'd be more interested if it

[00:32:29] turned out she was more complicated than that and that she's actually got some, um, evil tendencies

[00:32:35] or bad tendencies that maybe she'll have to overcome. Yeah. Maybe it'll be both. Yeah. She's complex.

[00:32:40] Yeah. All right. You want to, why don't you do another one since my first one was kind of long?

[00:32:46] Sure. I said I would talk a little bit about Choi too. Um, and some of the questions that you guys

[00:32:53] right at the end of the episode, like had all these questions about whether Mr. Kim, well,

[00:33:00] first of all, like we didn't even know if Choi was still alive at the end of episode one, which I

[00:33:04] watched them like pretty quickly in succession. And so a lot of the mystery you guys were left with,

[00:33:10] I sort of missed out on because I immediately was onto the next episode, but, um, obviously he's not

[00:33:16] dead. And I still don't know that we know for sure, Mr. Kim, whether he fully made the choice to save

[00:33:25] Choi or whether he hesitated in the moment. But I do think, I do think we learned enough to know that

[00:33:31] they had enough of a relationship that I think at least his hesitation came from, I don't actually want

[00:33:39] to kill this guy. I do actually care about him on a human level in some way.

[00:33:43] I mean, it could have been frozen and just pure frozen if you're not thinking at all, but here's

[00:33:49] what I think. Cause I thought about that a little bit more and I wish I'd express myself a little

[00:33:52] more clearly last week, but if you've got two hands out, you know, one hand can save your friend.

[00:33:58] In this case, it would be the scissors. If he left the scissors out and the paper would kill his friend

[00:34:03] and you really wanted to save your friend, then you would take the paper away and leave the

[00:34:07] scissors there. So there was no doubt what was going to happen, but by leaving both,

[00:34:12] there is some doubt. You don't know for sure that Dr. You guys are going to say, um, what did you say?

[00:34:16] They had established that no movement is, is sub like he did it earlier.

[00:34:24] Yeah. Okay. But even so, like you just, if you really want to make sure, then you pull one hand away

[00:34:32] and leave the scissors there, you know, and he did not do that. So that's why I think there's at

[00:34:37] least some doubt about whether that was his full intention. I think the point of him not doing that

[00:34:43] was to say, he's not sure what to do.

[00:34:46] Yeah. And at least that shows he wasn't just, I mean, especially for someone who was a kind of

[00:34:53] initially when he was introduced, a pretty like cold hearted gangster that at least he had some

[00:34:58] hesitation. Like he's obviously probably killed people or at least been part of a chain that does

[00:35:05] it. And so he at least had enough humanity that he had to hesitate at that decision. And so there was

[00:35:11] something there.

[00:35:12] What was the first thing you brought up before that?

[00:35:15] Oh, just that Choi is alive. He was just tied up and gagged.

[00:35:19] So, I mean, what about that? Like Choi and Doc G guy, I call him, they had their game somewhere else.

[00:35:28] And then what? He dragged him there, bound and gagged to Gi-hun's place and stuck him in a room.

[00:35:34] That seems like a flaw to me unless I'm missing something.

[00:35:37] No, I noticed a lot of things. What feels like flawed to me is that when it's convenient,

[00:35:44] the people associated with the squid games are almost like magical in their oversight, in their knowledge.

[00:35:53] Mm-hmm.

[00:35:54] But then when it's not convenient to the plot, like suddenly there's like these major, I don't know, holes.

[00:36:02] Like I just feel like a lot of the stuff you guys talked about last episode, like Gi-hun searched this whole time.

[00:36:09] Like there's no way he was doing any of that undetected. So why draw it out for so long?

[00:36:14] And why this whole like, I don't know, it felt like a bit of a show.

[00:36:20] And then like stuff like this where like he's magically getting this guy into the hotel,

[00:36:24] but then he dies by Russian roulette with Gi-hun by his own Choi.

[00:36:29] Like some of the stuff felt a little like I don't understand what's going on,

[00:36:33] but it's dramatic and fun.

[00:36:36] Like it was dramatic for Choi to be, you know, handcuffed there.

[00:36:41] I wasn't expecting Jun-ho to bust it on him there.

[00:36:45] It seems especially crazy.

[00:36:46] Fun, but like what?

[00:36:47] To have him there.

[00:36:49] Like how did that happen? You dragged him there?

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:53] All right.

[00:36:54] And I feel like this in general Choi like reminded me very much of how I felt about Gi-hun last season.

[00:37:02] And just like initially he's this sort of annoying character, but like very quickly becomes endearing.

[00:37:08] Like his impassioned sort of response to the recruiter's death after having killed Mr. Kim,

[00:37:16] I think was like really endearing.

[00:37:18] And even though like he also turned the money down the same way Jun-ho did,

[00:37:24] but it felt like there's a little more hesitation in his voice and a little like,

[00:37:27] I want to do this for the right reason, but also like if you want to give me a little money, it's okay.

[00:37:32] I was expecting to see that.

[00:37:33] No, I felt like I did.

[00:37:34] He just seems so angry.

[00:37:35] He's so angry at what happened.

[00:37:37] He was, so yeah.

[00:37:38] And he's like, I'm going to take those fat cats and make them play.

[00:37:42] Rocks is a paper and then shoot them dead or whatever he said.

[00:37:45] But I also, one thing about him, the show still has a sense of humor because when all these mercenaries were target shooting at,

[00:37:57] inside the shooting range in Gi-hun's place and Choi's telling Gi-hun, it's all good.

[00:38:03] Nothing's going to happen.

[00:38:04] You've got your tracker so you can relax.

[00:38:06] Don't worry.

[00:38:07] And then right then, boom, the fires and he's all.

[00:38:09] He jumped.

[00:38:10] Yeah.

[00:38:11] I just love that.

[00:38:12] Not at all relaxed.

[00:38:14] Yeah.

[00:38:14] And we needed him because Gi-hun is not the comic relief this season.

[00:38:20] That's right.

[00:38:20] And last season, he could be that in a lot of episodes and we didn't have him.

[00:38:26] He's John Wick now or something.

[00:38:28] Yeah.

[00:38:29] I still, like, I don't buy that they would have let him go in the club.

[00:38:34] Like, what was his purpose there other than to make us laugh with his ridiculous little clubbing outfit that he was excited about

[00:38:42] and that freaking horse mask he had on.

[00:38:45] But, like, even up to the moment they walked in the club, he didn't seem to be aware of what the plan was

[00:38:52] because he also suggested that Gi-hun get a mask.

[00:38:55] And obviously Gi-hun's plan was to go in and be recognized and be taken.

[00:39:00] And I just felt like I was having a hard time believing that Gi-hun and Gi-hun, who both seem very, like, focused and determined,

[00:39:10] and this crew of, like, military guys would allow this sort of, like, doofus to go along into the sort of, like, critical heart of the mission.

[00:39:19] But, like, he wouldn't let Jun-ho go in because he might be recognized.

[00:39:24] I'm like, I feel like Jun-ho was a lower risk.

[00:39:27] Like, put a mustache on him and he's a lower risk than Choi going in here.

[00:39:32] And so I did struggle, like, again, just with some of the, like, plot of that didn't add up to me.

[00:39:39] If Jun-ho and Gi-hun really felt like this was such an important mission, would you let Choi go in with you into the belly of the beast?

[00:39:48] I don't know.

[00:39:49] Yeah.

[00:39:49] Obviously, it was fine.

[00:39:50] He got tasered and left at the bar, but it was just interesting.

[00:39:56] And why not Jun-ho?

[00:39:57] I'm thinking maybe it's because they did just, for storytelling reasons, they didn't want to connect Jun-ho with his brother yet.

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:09] I think that's all I had, just that Choi is goofy and I'm kind of enjoying his character.

[00:40:14] I am curious if he will continue to be part of the crew as they go and enact plan B or if he's sort of out for a while and is just going to hang back.

[00:40:24] I think he'll be involved.

[00:40:26] I think he'll need his character.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:29] Yeah.

[00:40:29] I wonder if that tracker can be tracked all the way to, like, Squid Game Island and will these guys be in the story now after this?

[00:41:05] Yeah.

[00:41:06] I mean, it doesn't exist.

[00:41:07] Whatever they want in this show.

[00:41:10] Do you think our little, like, squid fishing guy is who's going to take him out?

[00:41:15] Is that plan B?

[00:41:16] The boat captain guy?

[00:41:19] Yeah.

[00:41:20] Oh, I bet you he comes back.

[00:41:23] Yeah.

[00:41:23] I think that'd be kind of cute.

[00:41:25] Yeah.

[00:41:25] I feel like we just have, like, a good little ragtag crew of good guys trying to take this place down.

[00:41:32] Yeah.

[00:41:32] Yeah.

[00:41:33] With this guy, Choi, he's pretty over the top.

[00:41:37] And I could easily just be like, oh, it's too goofy.

[00:41:40] But then I have to remember that there were characters like that in season one, too, especially like Min Yao.

[00:41:47] You know, the way she acted.

[00:41:49] Just kind of over emotional.

[00:41:51] And I'm like, that's just what kind of show this is.

[00:41:53] So enjoy it.

[00:41:54] And then I do.

[00:41:55] Yeah.

[00:41:55] Yeah.

[00:41:56] I feel like this season I've come in much more prepared for those characters.

[00:42:01] And so much more quickly have become fond of them.

[00:42:06] Yeah.

[00:42:06] And I'm the same way.

[00:42:07] I felt the same way before you even said it.

[00:42:09] Okay.

[00:42:10] So Jun-ho and the importance of family and organ harvesting somehow all together.

[00:42:19] So I'm glad to see Jun-ho and Gi-hoon interacting.

[00:42:23] I'm glad they didn't keep them apart again.

[00:42:25] And I really liked when Gi-hoon said, I remember you now.

[00:42:30] And we met once.

[00:42:31] And Jun-ho said, we met twice.

[00:42:33] Yeah.

[00:42:34] And talked about it.

[00:42:34] I was like, they did?

[00:42:35] I don't remember that.

[00:42:36] Oh.

[00:42:37] And then the whole thing with the night of the riot.

[00:42:39] Same.

[00:42:39] I didn't remember it either.

[00:42:41] Yeah.

[00:42:41] That was really cool.

[00:42:44] Gi-hoon asks about the front man.

[00:42:47] And Jun-ho continues not to reveal that it's his brother.

[00:42:50] And wants to know if Jun-ho's, I mean, if Gi-hoon's planning on killing him.

[00:42:55] So he's protecting his brother.

[00:42:57] How do we feel about that?

[00:42:58] Would we protect our own brothers in this kind of situation?

[00:43:02] I don't know.

[00:43:03] But that is my fucked up moment of the week.

[00:43:06] Oh, I forgot to ask.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:07] Sorry.

[00:43:07] Before he sent.

[00:43:10] I understand that he didn't reveal it right then.

[00:43:12] He didn't know him very well yet.

[00:43:14] He was still sitting in the shower sort of like handcuffed.

[00:43:18] When he didn't reveal to Gi-hoon who the front man was.

[00:43:23] That it was his brother.

[00:43:24] But as the plan progressed.

[00:43:26] And he literally sends Gi-hoon in to get his brother.

[00:43:31] I feel like at that point it was kind of fucked up.

[00:43:33] Not to give him this additional pretty important information.

[00:43:36] Like, hey, this is my brother.

[00:43:39] Hey, he actually was a past winner of the games.

[00:43:42] Like, that's important information in these conversations that Gi-hoon is having with him.

[00:43:47] In understanding who's kind of his opponent.

[00:43:51] And I understand Gi-hoon.

[00:43:52] Oh, like, I understand the complicated guilt and anger and love that he seems to have for his brother.

[00:43:59] But that was to me kind of fucked up that he didn't eventually reveal it before Gi-hoon went in to confront him.

[00:44:07] And I think, I mean, I think it's a good story point though.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:10] You know?

[00:44:11] Yeah.

[00:44:11] Because you're sort of like, oh, is that going to come back to bite him in the ass somehow?

[00:44:15] And also, I agree with you.

[00:44:18] It's fucked up.

[00:44:18] But I also, I mean, like, I was thinking about my own brother.

[00:44:22] Would I be ratting him out?

[00:44:24] You know?

[00:44:26] Probably because it's so serious.

[00:44:28] And, you know, he can't talk to him about it first.

[00:44:31] Because he doesn't know how to get a hold of him.

[00:44:35] So, I don't know.

[00:44:36] It's just a tough situation.

[00:44:37] But I think the squid game is so messed up that you'd have to, you know?

[00:44:43] Yeah.

[00:44:44] And I don't judge Jun-ho, like, terribly harshly.

[00:44:46] Sorry, Jeremy.

[00:44:47] By the way, that's my brother.

[00:44:50] I think that is totally complicated.

[00:44:53] And, like, also understand people that wouldn't necessarily give up their family member.

[00:44:59] But if he's decided to join Gi-hun in this effort, I feel like it was just such a critical piece of information before he went in to face him.

[00:45:09] I don't know.

[00:45:10] My fucked up moment of the week is when the guy walked into the room without his pig mask on and made the little girl cry.

[00:45:19] Oh, that was sad.

[00:45:21] Which I can totally understand being freaked out by that.

[00:45:23] Why does the piggy not have a head and there's a person in there?

[00:45:29] So, back to Jun-ho.

[00:45:30] Yeah, sorry.

[00:45:32] He's at home with his mom.

[00:45:34] So, we learned about their situation that In-ho is her stepson, which means that he's either Jun-ho's stepbrother or half-brother, I guess.

[00:45:43] Oh, yeah.

[00:45:43] I didn't even realize it could still be his half-brother.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:47] They could have the same dad.

[00:45:48] Yeah.

[00:45:49] Right?

[00:45:50] I think so.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:52] That seems sort of significant.

[00:45:54] And that In-ho saved Jun-ho's life by giving him a kidney.

[00:45:57] Did we know that before?

[00:45:58] Yeah.

[00:45:58] I don't think so.

[00:45:59] Okay.

[00:45:59] So, we're learning more about In-ho's motivation for why In-ho's wife got sick and his stepmom couldn't do anything and his wife died.

[00:46:10] And then if In-ho hadn't given Jun-ho his kidney, he could have sold it to get money for his wife's treatment.

[00:46:17] So, their mom thinks In-ho cut off contact because he's mad at her for not helping or whatever.

[00:46:24] So, I'm trying to think, how could this shed light on In-ho's motivation?

[00:46:30] Because a loved one dying is often part of supervillain and superhero origins.

[00:46:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:37] And so, for In-ho, scarcity of resources led to his wife's death.

[00:46:43] And maybe, I think with him, maybe he thinks because he won the squid game, he's special and only special people deserve to be rich and powerful and have good lives.

[00:46:52] And that maybe he did feel betrayed by his stepmother.

[00:46:56] And so, he thinks his family let him down.

[00:46:59] And so, family connections aren't what's important.

[00:47:03] And so, now he's more into individualism and social Darwinism and survival of the fittest.

[00:47:10] Now, maybe there's this theme of family this season.

[00:47:14] We see a lot with family.

[00:47:18] Dak Ji-gai killed his father.

[00:47:22] Jun-ho is protecting his brother.

[00:47:25] Gi-hun is looking after the relatives of Sang-woo and Se-bi-ok, who died in the game.

[00:47:30] Noelle trying to find her daughter.

[00:47:32] Gi-hun calling his daughter, not being able to bring himself to talk to her.

[00:47:37] That was a touching scene, but she's clearly important to him.

[00:47:41] And I think all this family stuff is at least in part related to that countries where there's less of a social safety net.

[00:47:49] Family members have to rely on each other more and take care of each other.

[00:47:52] They have to, or that is their safety net.

[00:47:55] And I think that's probably, I don't know for sure I should have looked it up, but maybe that's the importance of family is reflected in how the surnames come first.

[00:48:05] You know, Sang-gi-hun, Sang is Gi-hun's family name.

[00:48:12] So I just feel like we're going to get more on all that stuff with about family and more about In-ho.

[00:48:21] Yeah.

[00:48:22] What he took from everything that happened with his kidney and his wife dying and everything like that.

[00:48:27] I don't know if he thinks he's special because he really pushed Gi-hun on that point of like, you're not special.

[00:48:33] Like you think because you won the game, you're special.

[00:48:35] I almost wondered.

[00:48:37] That's true.

[00:48:37] And I feel like I just need more to understand his motivations because I feel like what you're saying, a lot of what you said makes sense.

[00:48:45] And also like, it could just be like almost like, what is it?

[00:48:49] Like nihilism where you just like, don't like you lost something that was the most important to you.

[00:48:54] You've lost all faith in humanity.

[00:48:55] Just want to kind of see the world burn and you detest the VIPs and the players and probably yourself.

[00:49:04] And so like, I don't know.

[00:49:08] I just remember last season, he made a big deal out of everyone has the same opportunity here.

[00:49:15] So he seemed to have some kind of drive that had something to do with that.

[00:49:21] And I'm trying to figure out how that relates to all this.

[00:49:24] You know, maybe we don't quite have enough information yet or maybe between the two of us, we just can't figure it out.

[00:49:32] It does kind of make me want to go back to season one and just see the parts where we do hear him speak sort of like, because at that point in time, he was just a faceless, nameless person.

[00:49:43] I didn't really care about their motivations a ton yet or understand.

[00:49:47] And now, like, I wonder if some of those things would hold more weight or give more insight into how he thinks.

[00:49:53] But yeah, I do now remember how much like the fairness, whatever perceived, whatever his reality of fairness is, was very important to him.

[00:50:04] And he thinks the losers are trash.

[00:50:06] I guess that's where I arrived at.

[00:50:07] Maybe he thinks that he and therefore Gi-hun are special.

[00:50:12] But then you pointed out that he said, you think you're special.

[00:50:14] So now I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't know.

[00:50:16] If he hadn't said that, what you said, I think makes the most sense to me based on the way he's talking about.

[00:50:22] So I don't know.

[00:50:23] I'm curious.

[00:50:24] I'm also really curious, like, Jun-ho's motivations.

[00:50:28] Is it to rescue In-ho?

[00:50:32] Is it to kill In-ho?

[00:50:35] Like, is it to talk to him and then decide what he wants to do with him?

[00:50:38] I feel like that's what it is, but I don't know.

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:41] Maybe he wants to find out information before the guy gets killed or something.

[00:50:48] I don't know.

[00:50:48] He had, like, in that conversation with his mother, he had guilt.

[00:50:53] He had anger.

[00:50:55] But there was also love and some understanding, too, that he sort of, I feel like, cycled through in talking about In-ho throughout the conversation.

[00:51:06] How realistic, like, could In-ho have really sold his kidney that easily to save his wife?

[00:51:14] Like, is the, like, organ trade that easily accessible there?

[00:51:20] That was a true...

[00:51:22] I know we've mentioned it multiple times last season.

[00:51:25] Do you know?

[00:51:26] Yeah, that was the second part of...

[00:51:29] I looked it up.

[00:51:30] Sorry.

[00:51:31] ChatGBT, anyway.

[00:51:32] Which I think is getting a lot better lately.

[00:51:34] And it's always been pretty good.

[00:51:35] But anyway.

[00:51:36] So, I wondered if In-ho having sold his kidney is related to this organ harvesting on Squid Game Isle that we saw last time.

[00:51:45] And is it just common?

[00:51:47] Is it a common thing to sell organs for money?

[00:51:50] And so, ChatGBT says,

[00:51:52] As the illegal organ trade exists in many parts of the world, particularly in regions with significant socioeconomic disparities, people in desperate financial situations may sell their organs while wealthier individuals may seek illicit transplants to bypass long wait lists.

[00:52:06] Kidneys are the most commonly traded organs because humans can survive with one functioning kidney.

[00:52:12] Liver segments, corneas, and even bone marrow have also been illicitly traded.

[00:52:16] Countries with weak regulatory frameworks or high poverty levels, such as parts of South Asia, Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and Eastern Europe, are often implicated in the black market organ trade.

[00:52:28] It says,

[00:52:29] South Korea has a robust healthcare system and stringent laws against illegal organ trafficking.

[00:52:34] The country does not have a reputation for being a hub of organ trafficking.

[00:52:38] However, like many countries, South Korea faces a shortage of legally available organs for transplantation, which can lead to long waiting times.

[00:52:46] South Korea has traditionally low organ donation rates because of cultural and religious beliefs about preserving the body after death, which may indirectly contribute to the demand for illegal organs.

[00:52:59] And, uh, it says the organ trafficking subplot in squid game is an exaggerated dramatization.

[00:53:05] While it reflects a real issue, it's not specific to South Korea and is presented in the show for shock value.

[00:53:11] And I would argue social commentary rather than as a reflection of widespread practices in the country.

[00:53:16] So, you know, it happens to know like that.

[00:53:21] It's more of a, but more so like a plot line for the show versus like a drastic problem in South Korea.

[00:53:28] Like, I think it's important to point that out just cause like, I don't know, social like assumptions about different places.

[00:53:36] But, but there is a trade, there is a black market trade.

[00:53:39] So it could happen.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Yep.

[00:53:43] All right.

[00:53:43] What do you got next?

[00:53:45] Anything else?

[00:53:46] I think we've hit most things I have on my major points and I just have a couple notes.

[00:53:53] Okay.

[00:53:53] Yeah.

[00:53:53] I had a couple more.

[00:53:55] One, the Seoul, which is the capital of Korea, Seoul Land Amusement Park.

[00:54:01] I thought it was kind of interesting because squid game is usually the juxtaposition of the childlike with the horrific.

[00:54:08] And now we get just the childlike in context and actual children.

[00:54:15] And still there's some parallels.

[00:54:20] It's these less fortunate people who I just love.

[00:54:25] You see these workers acting all cutesy and then they go into their room and they take off their mask and they're all sweaty.

[00:54:33] They're like, you know,

[00:54:36] Cussing and just like people that are like, I hate my job.

[00:54:40] And we only knew that one of them had to sleep out in the parking lot.

[00:54:44] So it seemed like they're underpaid.

[00:54:46] And it reminded me when I was in marching band in high school and we got to march at Disneyland.

[00:54:54] Yeah, we did that too.

[00:54:55] And then we marched backstage or in the back lots.

[00:54:59] And it was like that.

[00:55:01] The immersion was completely broken.

[00:55:03] They were like broken rides and just none of the detail and everything.

[00:55:07] And we all cried.

[00:55:09] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:55:09] But it was like sad to see that piece.

[00:55:14] Yeah, it was kind of sad.

[00:55:16] And then on second watch, knowing that Noel is a squid game worker, I wondered if the masks also echoed the masks of the squid game workers.

[00:55:27] The differences in squid game, the workers aren't entertainers like at the amusement park.

[00:55:33] But in both, they're workers and they're there to play roles.

[00:55:37] So who they are underneath the masks doesn't matter, you know.

[00:55:40] And they have to move and act in a certain way at the amusement park.

[00:55:44] They have to act all cutesy.

[00:55:45] And at squid game, they're all in unison and efficient and marching.

[00:55:49] And they have to like take lethal action immediately.

[00:55:53] I mean, they just feel like any one of them could be replaced with any other one, like their androids or something.

[00:55:59] So I thought it was interesting that she got a job at this place where she has to wear another mask, but also where she has to see children all the time, given that she is missing her little daughter.

[00:56:11] It seems like that would be torture.

[00:56:12] I mean, it probably is.

[00:56:14] That's probably why she's so tortured.

[00:56:16] It's like that's just compounding it.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:27] Yeah.

[00:56:29] Well, let me go through a couple.

[00:56:31] So I'll just pull points that we didn't talk about.

[00:56:35] So he takes Jun-ho and Choi into this room where there's his big neatly stacked pile of cash.

[00:56:43] And I think that's all the money.

[00:56:45] I don't know for sure.

[00:56:46] But it looks like there's like just so we can get an idea of how much he spent, right?

[00:56:51] Maybe five or 10 percent or something like that.

[00:56:53] Last time I forgot to say this, but I thought maybe they were going down this path where he was going to blow all the money looking for the squid game people, which would be really tragic.

[00:57:01] And it reminds me how a lot of lottery winners apparently lose all their money and spend it all.

[00:57:07] But it doesn't seem like that because he's only spent a small part of it.

[00:57:10] I am really glad they showed us that because I sort of had that feeling, too, as he was handing bags of money off to people.

[00:57:17] Like, is he going to have any left?

[00:57:19] And so then just seeing like for two years he's really poured money into this and it's just this tiny little corner of his whole winnings was like a nice relief to me.

[00:57:31] I couldn't also help but think of all the money falling into the glass piggy bank.

[00:57:36] God, I know.

[00:57:37] You know, and this isn't that exact money, I don't think, because when he won last season, it just showed him get it all in his bank account at the ATM.

[00:57:46] Right.

[00:57:46] Right.

[00:57:46] So he must have withdrawn it, which seems really dumb to withdraw it, have it in cash in a single place and then just bring these two guys that you don't know that well and say you can have as much of this as you want.

[00:57:58] What?

[00:57:59] What?

[00:58:00] I mean, it's stuff like that throughout the episode, like those little things that are just like, I hate this, this is dumb, and I'm going to overlook it.

[00:58:09] It's also kind of visually cool.

[00:58:11] Yeah, like don't think about it too hard, just move forward.

[00:58:14] It seems like, I mean, it does fit with his character a little bit, though, because he can be careless.

[00:58:19] Absolutely.

[00:58:20] Something David said last episode was like, uh, Kihoon is quite smart.

[00:58:27] And I was like, not always.

[00:58:29] Like, he does some pretty bad decisions.

[00:58:32] Yeah.

[00:58:32] Like, he can be, and he has some like.

[00:58:35] But he's also very, he's the type of guy that I can believe would have the stack of money in one room, in one place.

[00:58:44] He's a bit chaotic.

[00:58:45] I mean, he won the squid game, so he's got something.

[00:58:47] He did.

[00:58:47] Like, he's not a complete idiot, but.

[00:58:52] The dentist pulls his tooth out, inserts a tracker.

[00:58:56] I thought that's very squid game meets James Bond.

[00:58:59] If it was James Bond, maybe it would be a little crown and then give him some Novocaine.

[00:59:03] But it's squid game, so they just have to rip the whole damn tooth out.

[00:59:08] I guess that's all I had about that stuff.

[00:59:11] And then just speculating on his plans, which we already talked about a little bit.

[00:59:17] But I wonder if he has something definitive in mind.

[00:59:24] And, you know, Jun Ho says, are you going to kill the front man?

[00:59:29] Gihoon says killing one person isn't going to put an end to any of this.

[00:59:33] Um, oh, well, Nam said he only decided to create the game to please his clients.

[00:59:37] So I think he really, the VIPs are his target.

[00:59:42] I don't know if he wants to kill them or, um, try to show them that people can be compassionate, which would be really corny.

[00:59:50] And I don't think it would be very squid game, but it seems like if it was just pure vengeance, I don't see it being that simple either.

[00:59:56] I do think, as I said last week, that before this is all over, we will see some of these or all these guys forced to play a squid game like thing.

[01:00:06] Yeah.

[01:00:08] I mean, it'd be very Hunger Games of them.

[01:00:12] I don't know.

[01:00:13] I mean, I don't think there's a shortage of VIPs.

[01:00:17] Like, I think you could go in and kill them.

[01:00:19] And just as much as there's never a never ending supply of players, I think there's always going to be someone to step up and take the VIP places to.

[01:00:30] And so that, that's where I'm just like, what is the plan?

[01:00:33] And is, that was sort of my struggle of like, you who, and I go back to what you, what you guys said last week, that the VIPs aren't even bothered enough by the contestants to be angry and call them trash.

[01:00:47] They just don't care.

[01:00:48] They're just the horses they're racing, as he says.

[01:00:52] And so I don't think there's a reality where you convince those people, like, I don't think they care if people can change.

[01:01:01] That's, they don't need to be shown that.

[01:01:03] They don't care.

[01:01:04] I don't think it's going to change them.

[01:01:06] I think maybe the front man, because of what we know about who he actually is and where he came from, might have that potential.

[01:01:14] But he's not the important.

[01:01:17] He's obviously replaceable.

[01:01:19] It's not been that long since he won the games.

[01:01:20] There was a front man before him.

[01:01:22] You know?

[01:01:23] Yeah.

[01:01:24] Probably.

[01:01:24] And so, I just am having a hard time picturing what the, what plan B is, which I also giggled that it was just simply plan B.

[01:01:34] Like, when they.

[01:01:36] I don't know for sure there's, I think you're probably right.

[01:01:40] There's enough customers that they could keep it going.

[01:01:46] I, one thing is they didn't really talk.

[01:01:49] They talked about, oh, and I'm dying, but they didn't like Jun-ho and Gi-hun didn't say, I wonder who runs the game now.

[01:01:56] Do they even care about that?

[01:01:58] Do they think the front man runs it now?

[01:02:00] Because we don't really know for sure.

[01:02:02] Who, if someone.

[01:02:03] I feel like that's the assumption he's making is that the front man runs it.

[01:02:06] Like from some of the stuff he said, but that's, I don't know that.

[01:02:10] Like, I don't think we do know that.

[01:02:12] I feel like that's Gi-hun's assumption, but.

[01:02:14] They're more focused on caring about the VIPs.

[01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:18] And I, I don't know.

[01:02:20] I have the feeling that Gi-hun thinks if I wipe out all these guys, that will help get rid of these games.

[01:02:28] But maybe that's just what he thinks and he's being naive.

[01:02:32] I guess we'll find out.

[01:02:33] Yeah.

[01:02:34] Maybe that'll be the ending that like you think you end it all.

[01:02:36] And then it just.

[01:02:37] It's just more.

[01:02:38] We actually find out it's happening in every country.

[01:02:40] Yeah.

[01:02:41] And you can't really stop the squid games.

[01:02:43] Right.

[01:02:44] So why not join it?

[01:02:45] No, I'm just kidding.

[01:02:47] So what do you got for notes?

[01:02:50] I actually like, we just touched on a few of them.

[01:02:52] And then my only other thing was, I was just wondering where we think season two is going to end.

[01:02:59] And we know it's planned to end with season three, right?

[01:03:02] Yeah.

[01:03:03] I think that's what we've read.

[01:03:04] Yeah.

[01:03:05] So do you think season two is going to be a cliffhanger?

[01:03:08] Like we're already two episodes in and the games haven't started.

[01:03:11] I have a hard time seeing this wrap with like the end of another set of games and like something starting up.

[01:03:19] Like, I really think we're going to get halfway into this and sort of more of a cliffhanger than season one was.

[01:03:26] So I was just curious where you think we're going to get to in this season.

[01:03:30] And what I hope is that it feels like a three act play.

[01:03:35] And like I said, the first season now feels like this victim who becomes empowered at the end.

[01:03:41] And then season two is his quest for some kind of vengeance or holding them accountable.

[01:03:48] But then I don't know what the third act for that would be.

[01:03:52] Yeah.

[01:03:53] Do we keep Gi-hun or who's the, like, yeah.

[01:03:56] I mean, could the through line stop being Gi-hun and actually be like the front man or something?

[01:04:03] Like, does Gi-hun die at the end of this and it changes the front man's heart or Jun-ho and Gi-hun somehow change him?

[01:04:12] And so then season three is him trying to end it.

[01:04:16] Like, I don't know.

[01:04:16] I'm just curious where we get to.

[01:04:18] I would be really shocked at that because I think, you know, this is Netflix's most popular show.

[01:04:24] And I wouldn't think they would be brave enough to change something core to it like Gi-hun, you know?

[01:04:31] But I don't know.

[01:04:33] We'll see.

[01:04:34] What do you have for notes?

[01:04:35] Only one note is that I think that the Squid Game people, you know, the people running at the VIPs, you'd think they might just consider not actually giving the winner any money at the end.

[01:04:49] Just stringing everyone along with a lie that they were going to get the money and then at the end just kill anyone who's left because they don't seem to have any regard for human life.

[01:04:59] They're doing this for entertainment value.

[01:05:01] So they would get that exact entertainment value, but A, not have to pay as much or like not nearly as much.

[01:05:09] And B, not have to worry about any newly empowered winner causing trouble or exposing them like Gi-hun is now, you know?

[01:05:17] I think that's the biggest thing is just the risk of letting these people go back out.

[01:05:22] Yeah, with power now.

[01:05:23] Yeah.

[01:05:23] I think that, I think you guys said this last week, but it's just sort of amazing that these have been going on since the 80s and this is the first time someone's made a big enough like, well, I mean, I guess we don't know for sure, but it seems like this is the first time anyone's really trying to do what Gi-hun is doing.

[01:05:42] I guess we don't really know that though.

[01:05:44] We don't know.

[01:05:44] I mean, I wouldn't have that much trouble believing that anyone who came out of there with hundreds of million dollars or whatever it is would just be like, all right, I guess I'm good.

[01:05:59] Yeah.

[01:06:00] You know?

[01:06:00] I mean, I guess you also carry a lot of shame that you killed a lot of people to get that money.

[01:06:05] And so inherently telling your story also exposes you as someone who was willing to participate in, I mean, Gi-hun calls it blood money this episode.

[01:06:15] And so there is some personal pressure to not like reveal.

[01:06:20] It's not the same as winning the lottery, right?

[01:06:22] You didn't have to kill all the other people that played the lottery to win.

[01:06:26] So.

[01:06:27] True.

[01:06:27] True.

[01:06:27] Yeah.

[01:06:28] Yeah.

[01:06:28] Maybe the real, the better question is why is Gi-hun telling?

[01:06:33] Not why didn't everyone else?

[01:06:35] Yeah.

[01:06:36] Yeah.

[01:06:37] Yeah.

[01:06:37] Or why is Gi-hun, you know, exposing himself and going after them?

[01:07:12] Okay.

[01:07:13] We're back for a couple of messages and a voice message from Sam.

[01:07:19] So you want to go first?

[01:07:21] Yeah.

[01:07:22] Becky Anderson writes that tooth scene.

[01:07:24] Yikes.

[01:07:25] The ending surprised me.

[01:07:27] Thought she was a player.

[01:07:28] Me too.

[01:07:30] I really liked the first two episodes.

[01:07:31] I was concerned how they would make this work, but so far they've done a great job.

[01:07:35] Only two episodes in and I'm hooked.

[01:07:38] Same Becky.

[01:07:39] I was also very worried and I'm pleasantly surprised.

[01:07:42] Yeah.

[01:07:42] We'll see what happens with number three.

[01:07:44] Yeah.

[01:07:45] I got my fingers crossed.

[01:07:47] Catherine Peters says most of episode two felt like part of an action movie until the last 15 minutes.

[01:07:52] Then we got, we get that intensity and suspense that I associate with Squid Game.

[01:07:56] I'm watching along with the podcast and I'm looking forward to getting to the actual competition.

[01:08:00] Me too.

[01:08:02] Yeah.

[01:08:02] If it's not next week, I'm going to be disappointed.

[01:08:04] Honestly.

[01:08:05] I have to say mad respect to people that watch slowly along with the podcast.

[01:08:10] Yeah.

[01:08:10] Thank you.

[01:08:10] Because I'm such a binge watcher that it is like the hardest.

[01:08:14] Like I've watched through The Walking Dead like three times just since you guys have done

[01:08:17] the rewatch because I just can't stop.

[01:08:19] Like that's how bad I am.

[01:08:20] A show that I rewatch all the time.

[01:08:22] So kudos, Catherine.

[01:08:25] I'm impressed.

[01:08:26] Yeah.

[01:08:26] I'm actually kind of flattered.

[01:08:28] I hope you guys enjoy that.

[01:08:30] All right.

[01:08:31] And then we got a call from Sam.

[01:08:35] Hi, Jason, Daphne and David.

[01:08:38] I feel a little bit like June.

[01:08:40] We signed up for a round two of the Squid Game.

[01:08:46] Here we go again.

[01:08:48] I do not envy the Squid Game creator, Hwang Dong Hyuk.

[01:08:53] I get it when he said like at the very, very beginning when Squid Game first came out,

[01:09:00] the first season, he said that he was not going to make any sequels.

[01:09:04] This was always meant to be a self-contained story.

[01:09:09] And that's how he spent years painstakingly writing it, editing, setting everything up.

[01:09:15] And you can watch it.

[01:09:17] And yeah, I mean, we all have some questions, but that was kind of the point.

[01:09:21] That it was a self-contained story.

[01:09:23] You have a little bit of hope at the end.

[01:09:25] It's bleak, but it's there.

[01:09:27] That June was going to stop the Squid Game.

[01:09:30] It was always meant to stop there, the story.

[01:09:33] And Netflix gave him a buttload of money.

[01:09:36] And obviously because it became an international phenomenon.

[01:09:40] And then he was probably, I'm guessing like, okay, I can hire the same crew.

[01:09:44] This is important stuff to talk about.

[01:09:47] And, you know, we'll do season two.

[01:09:50] And we're sort of seeing the growing pains, at least for me,

[01:09:53] that this was never meant to continue on.

[01:09:55] It's a little bit of the stuttering as it's starting up again.

[01:09:58] Because he has to do something that I don't envy.

[01:10:02] Match the hype of season one.

[01:10:04] Which, I mean, nothing's going to add up to season one.

[01:10:07] At least in my brain.

[01:10:08] I'll love to be proven wrong.

[01:10:10] I think season one of Squid Game was a unique phenomenon for just what it was.

[01:10:16] I mean, it was so special and so different and so shocking.

[01:10:20] And it came like on the tail end of a pandemic that changed all of our lives.

[01:10:26] You know, like in one way or another.

[01:10:29] And, you know, we just sort of see that.

[01:10:31] And now this is like, I'm glad they continued the story.

[01:10:34] I'm interested.

[01:10:35] I think that they're trying to get to us in a different way.

[01:10:37] And we saw that in episode one.

[01:10:39] Which I agree with you.

[01:10:40] There's some exposition in there that was not needed.

[01:10:43] It was a little slow.

[01:10:45] And, you know, they're probably trying to catch everyone up.

[01:10:47] Whatevs.

[01:10:48] And we're seeing the violence and the trauma and the aftermath.

[01:10:53] This isn't adrenaline-fueled, you know, what are we going to do?

[01:10:56] How are we going to survive?

[01:10:58] It's the slow parts that come if you survive.

[01:11:01] Right?

[01:11:02] Like, yeah, we're out of the adrenaline.

[01:11:04] You survive.

[01:11:05] And you have survivor's guilt.

[01:11:07] Or Jihoon.

[01:11:09] It's slower.

[01:11:10] It's quiet.

[01:11:10] It's miserable.

[01:11:11] You're trying to make sense of the world.

[01:11:13] And Jihoon is so obsessed with finding these guys.

[01:11:18] To do what?

[01:11:19] Like, I know he wants to stop the games.

[01:11:21] I think all of us would prefer the games to stop.

[01:11:25] It's a well-funded, well-organized system.

[01:11:29] And how's he going to do that?

[01:11:30] I guess he's going to try from the inside.

[01:11:32] Here's hoping.

[01:11:33] I don't know.

[01:11:33] We have season three.

[01:11:34] So I'm guessing not.

[01:11:36] And, you know, we're seeing that that might not be realistic.

[01:11:40] I'm with you, Daphne.

[01:11:41] I am very worried about Jihoon because, yeah, that's not going to make him feel better.

[01:11:47] I mean, he'll feel a little bit better that new people aren't getting victimized in this.

[01:11:51] But capitalism still exists.

[01:11:53] Desperate people are still going to be taken advantage of.

[01:11:55] And most importantly for poor Jihoon, it's not going to make your memories go away.

[01:11:59] Like, I really do think the Jihoon from first season is, he died in the games, metaphorically.

[01:12:06] Like, that naive, hopeful, believing in the best.

[01:12:10] Like, he saw what people do to each other when they're desperate.

[01:12:13] That changes you as a person.

[01:12:15] We're seeing him.

[01:12:17] Like, you know, we're seeing him try to make sense of that.

[01:12:20] I sadly get why he's not going to see his daughter.

[01:12:24] He's not that same person.

[01:12:26] Like, he won't even talk to her on the phone.

[01:12:29] He's, he, I'm guessing he feels like if he could stop the games, then he can tell her that he's, yes, a different person.

[01:12:39] But he's still a good person.

[01:12:41] I don't know.

[01:12:41] Like, I feel like he questions that about himself.

[01:12:44] And we can see it from the outside looking in.

[01:12:47] But this is what happens.

[01:12:48] Like, soldiers judge themselves afterwards.

[01:12:51] And it's like, yeah, but you did what you had to do.

[01:12:54] It doesn't matter to them.

[01:12:55] Like, and I get why.

[01:12:57] It's just, it's really tough.

[01:13:00] And we're seeing sort of this trauma and this visceral experience in a different way.

[01:13:05] Like, for me, episode one was so interesting because I wasn't expecting it to make me uncomfortable the way it did.

[01:13:11] Where, like, I'm with you guys.

[01:13:13] That unhoused scene, like, I felt physically ill.

[01:13:19] And I think it's for the same reason that I felt physically ill when the Russian roulette was going on between those two characters that I'm with you guys.

[01:13:27] I didn't care about the two characters either.

[01:13:29] It was more of the situation that the recruiter took away the humanity of those people.

[01:13:37] And it made me really uncomfortable because I saw humanity in them.

[01:13:41] Mm-hmm.

[01:13:41] With the unhoused, I saw it.

[01:13:43] And then with the two people, I think that's why they told us, like, they had a relationship before this, you know, whatever.

[01:13:49] It's like they were non – they had to be nonverbal because they were gagged.

[01:13:53] And so it was just their physical reactions of shaking and crying.

[01:13:57] I was just like, oh, like, this is making me so ill.

[01:14:01] So rather than this, like, random violence of people we don't really know getting shot by a homicidal doll, we're seeing this one-on-one violence.

[01:14:11] And we're also seeing, like, behind the mask, so to speak.

[01:14:14] What are the motivations of the villains as we saw at the end of episode two, which I did not expect?

[01:14:20] In fact, maybe the villains aren't as one-dimensional as we think.

[01:14:23] Yes, we're more comfortable with our recruiter, who is a pure psychopath.

[01:14:29] Yeah.

[01:14:30] Probably, you know, ripped the wings off of insects when he was a child.

[01:14:33] You know, probably had his own trauma.

[01:14:35] But, you know, this is – he's completely psychopathic.

[01:14:38] I get a feeling we're going to get more uncomfortable as things go on, that things aren't going to be that easy to blame them as bad guys.

[01:14:46] We're always going to have the VIPs who are pure evil.

[01:14:49] But everyone who works for them, are they also victims too?

[01:14:53] So I'm interested to see and get more uncomfortable.

[01:14:57] Also, I know this is going really long.

[01:14:59] Please feel free to edit.

[01:15:00] Episode two was – it made me laugh a lot.

[01:15:03] We have the buddy cop team up that I didn't know I wanted between June and the police officer.

[01:15:10] And I'm here for it.

[01:15:11] I like it.

[01:15:12] And I'm also really sad for June when he said, welcome back, Pelé Air 456.

[01:15:18] I was like, oh, no.

[01:15:19] This is going to suck.

[01:15:21] So I cannot wait to hear the pod.

[01:15:24] I'm so excited.

[01:15:25] You guys are doing such an amazing job as usual.

[01:15:27] Thanks again.

[01:15:30] That was great.

[01:15:31] Thank you, Sam.

[01:15:33] Gave me a lot to think about there.

[01:15:37] Yeah.

[01:15:38] Yeah.

[01:15:38] It really seemed like the writer – I always forget his name – but that he set it up for a sequel.

[01:15:46] But he didn't.

[01:15:47] He said – I mean, because, you know, Gi-hun is saying, I'm going to go – or it seems like he's on his way to shut down the squid game.

[01:15:55] And you wonder if June-ho was still alive and what was the deal with his brother and everything.

[01:16:00] But I guess those were just intended to get us thinking rather than to say that there was going to be more.

[01:16:07] But then there was just such a demand that they decided to do it.

[01:16:11] Yeah.

[01:16:12] But the part about being physically ill, about the bread and lottery game, because, yeah, it's just like there's this –

[01:16:20] It's cruel.

[01:16:20] It was cruel.

[01:16:21] It was a cruel thing.

[01:16:23] Yeah.

[01:16:23] And it's treating people like trash.

[01:16:26] And it's having zero compassion.

[01:16:29] And I just think that it's kind of ironic that this show that started off with such a dark scene of red light, green light, people getting shot.

[01:16:39] Really, the message is we need to care about each other more.

[01:16:43] You know what I mean?

[01:16:44] And that's really the point of all of this, that we don't care about each other enough.

[01:16:48] And honestly, I think you said the VIPs are pure evil.

[01:16:52] I think any one of the characters in this has some trauma or some that you could put any human being in their situation, and there's a good chance they would do exactly the same thing.

[01:17:04] And I think it's more of a systemic problem than a good and evil problem, and that we need to change the system, and then it won't enable these kind of outcomes rather than just point at certain people and say, you're the problem.

[01:17:17] But they are the problem because they won't let the system change because it would take away their power.

[01:17:22] But really, it's the system that enabled this in the first place.

[01:17:27] But they're still humans.

[01:17:27] They're not monsters.

[01:17:28] Yeah.

[01:17:28] And I think that's the important piece to remember.

[01:17:31] I think there's a lot of things happening right now where it's very easy to forget that.

[01:17:37] Yeah.

[01:17:38] You know?

[01:17:39] Everyone.

[01:17:40] Yeah.

[01:17:40] Yeah.

[01:17:41] And I think we're no better than the people that we're putting the finger at if we're also just putting them into one box and not also trying to see their humanity as hard as it can be.

[01:17:53] Absolutely.

[01:17:54] Totally agree with that.

[01:17:55] I think it's important.

[01:17:56] I mean, I think about all that kind of thing a lot, and I think, is there such a thing as pure evil?

[01:18:01] And I do think there is.

[01:18:02] And I think there's some people who are just born evil, but I think that's the exception.

[01:18:08] And I think more often than not, it's about environment and context that can bring these bad behaviors about and trauma and all these kinds of things like that.

[01:18:20] And that if we just had a better system and we learned how to, I don't know, connect with people, then we'd all be better off.

[01:18:30] For sure.

[01:18:31] And that's my soapbox for the day.

[01:18:33] It's nice that we have this super positive message from such a dark show, though, like you said.

[01:18:37] I think so, yeah.

[01:18:39] And I think for this season to slap, I think that's what they have to dig into is that because it's not going to be shocking anymore.

[01:18:50] It can be tense.

[01:18:51] They can do that.

[01:18:53] But I think I hope that they keep up sort of this piece of thing strongly in this season and next because we have lost.

[01:19:03] Season one was the shock value, right?

[01:19:05] And on rewatch, I feel like I saw so much deeper all of these themes, but it was hard the first time because I was so distracted by the shock and the loss and the blood and guts and everything.

[01:19:17] But I think season two, now that we're all past that, they have the chance to dig deeper into the themes.

[01:19:25] And so hopefully they can do that in a way that still captures everyone's attention.

[01:19:30] It's capturing mine.

[01:19:31] Yeah, me too.

[01:19:32] I hope it does everyone.

[01:19:33] And I think you and I would be really satisfied with that.

[01:19:35] But I suspect that they probably do do that kind of thing this season where they don't focus so much on the nature of the games and more just exploring what all the themes of what it brings up.

[01:19:48] But like you said, I get a sense that people aren't as happy with this season.

[01:19:55] And I wonder if that's why.

[01:19:57] And I wonder if they would sort of quote unquote course correct and go back to traditional squid game savagery in season three that wouldn't be as good for you and me.

[01:20:08] Because people just want to see fucked up situations, which I do too.

[01:20:14] I like that kind of stuff too.

[01:20:15] But I want it to have a deeper meaning.

[01:20:17] I do.

[01:20:18] And I think episode one almost bordered for me.

[01:20:22] I've never seen the Saw movies.

[01:20:23] I don't mind gore, but I don't really like torture.

[01:20:27] Yeah.

[01:20:28] And that game almost got a little too like torture, like intimately torturous to me.

[01:20:36] And I think the thing that saved it was the fact that he hesitated probably because he cared about the other humans somewhat.

[01:20:43] And like there was themes that we could talk about about that.

[01:20:46] So that saved it for me that there was still like a point to it and something that now is what's driving one of the characters in the show.

[01:20:54] But like I don't want the shock value to be like this intimate torture either.

[01:21:00] Like I hope that's not what they're going for since they've lost the shock value of like mass murder.

[01:21:07] Like I don't want that.

[01:21:08] Like so many things were torturous, you know, knowing you're about to be pulled off a tug of war thing is torturous.

[01:21:14] But it wasn't the same like close up.

[01:21:17] Yeah.

[01:21:17] Gun to their head.

[01:21:19] I don't know.

[01:21:20] It made me so uncomfortable.

[01:21:22] Yeah.

[01:21:22] Well, I mean, I do think that this show is really good at making people uncomfortable, myself included.

[01:21:30] And I am actually in this one case kind of thankful that I'm forced to watch it week by week because of the podcast because.

[01:21:38] Yeah.

[01:21:39] Binging the show gets pretty intense.

[01:21:41] Mm hmm.

[01:21:41] Yeah.

[01:21:42] I think this is going to be great for me and I wouldn't be able to do it if I wasn't being forced to.

[01:21:48] So I'm thankful for the podcast.

[01:21:50] I don't have the self-restraint.

[01:21:51] Don't personal torture.

[01:22:05] All right.

[01:22:06] That is our show.

[01:22:07] Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

[01:22:08] Thanks, Veronica.

[01:22:09] That was great.

[01:22:09] Enjoyed that.

[01:22:10] Yeah.

[01:22:10] Enjoyed that.

[01:22:11] Thanks for having me on.

[01:22:12] I'm excited to go through the rest of the season.

[01:22:14] Next time is Squid Game Season 2, Episode 3001.

[01:22:19] It's such a great title.

[01:22:20] Who's that?

[01:22:22] It's going to be zombie oil numb.

[01:22:25] Wouldn't that be something?

[01:22:27] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:22:35] While you're there, be sure to check out our other shows.

[01:22:38] Recently, Veronica, our friend Amelie, and I covered the first six episodes of Season 2 of this Apple TV Plus show, Silo, on the Cast of Us podcast.

[01:22:49] And I think that's a really good show.

[01:22:52] It's not exactly like Squid Game, but it's a dark, smart show.

[01:22:58] Survivalist.

[01:22:59] Yeah.

[01:22:59] Yeah.

[01:22:59] It's got some ominousness to it and everything.

[01:23:02] It's got some similarity to it.

[01:23:04] The haves and the have-nots and stuff.

[01:23:06] I think it's got a lot of cool parallels to Fallout, but it's such a different feel of a show.

[01:23:12] Yeah.

[01:23:13] That it's sort of cool that both of those are coming out at similar times as TV shows.

[01:23:18] I definitely encourage people, especially now that we're in Season 2 of Silo.

[01:23:23] It's great.

[01:23:23] Check it out.

[01:23:24] It's fun.

[01:23:24] I didn't get a chance to watch Episode 7 yet.

[01:23:27] Have you?

[01:23:28] I haven't.

[01:23:29] I think I might actually do that tonight.

[01:23:31] Yeah.

[01:23:32] Big exciting New Year's Eve plans.

[01:23:33] I'm going to watch TV.

[01:23:35] Right on.

[01:23:36] Well, that's it.

[01:23:37] That is our show.

[01:23:38] Thanks for listening.

[01:23:39] Happy New Year.

[01:23:40] Happy Halloween.