The White Lotus Season 3 News + Listener Feedback

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[00:00:30] Hm? Ah! Hmm. Podcastica. Hello, welcome to The White Lotus, a podcast dedicated to the show, The White Lotus. We're the resort managers. If you need anything, let us know. And please enjoy your stay.

[00:01:04] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jenny. And I'm Randy. In this episode, we're going to go through your feedback and some news about The White Lotus, season three, mostly about the finale. We'll also reveal our Enneagram types at the end, see if we're compatible. Before we get into it, I just wanted to quickly thank you guys for listening.

[00:01:29] This podcast actually, I didn't expect it to be as popular as it is and I'm really happy about that. Yeah. Basically we're doing it because there was these writers and actor strikes and it left a big gap. And I'm like, well, what do I, what shows do I really like? And so we did White Lotus, we did Squid Game. And I wanted to do something with Randy because you had been sending in some really fun stuff to our Walking Dead podcast.

[00:01:56] And it's Jenny, the only show that she watches with me. So I thought it would be fun. The only show I watch. The only show she watches, yeah. So it all worked out. And now that the new season came out and it's been, it's our most popular show on this network. So I, I, if you didn't realize that we have this whole network podcastica and the next big thing we're doing is right around the corner. It's the last of us. Yeah. Yeah. And I think they deliberately did it the next weekend.

[00:02:24] So people who got into a habit of watching White Lotus, maybe some of them will go over and watch the last of us. So if you want to continue on and, and hear us here while me and some other people talk about the last of us, go to podcastica.com and you can find our last of us podcast on there. Along with a few other things. We're also getting into Handmaid's Tale right now. Nice. So thank you guys, but back to the White Lotus, we're going to go through some news and then we'll go through your feedback.

[00:02:49] Uh, there were various articles and interviews where Mike White and some of the cast members talked about what they thought would happen in the future with different characters. I thought that'd be interesting on the White Lotus podcast from HBO. Mike White talked about whether Gatak and Mook would stay happily together long-term. What do you guys think he said? No. 50, 50. Come on. He said, I think they're happy. Um, he said that might come at the cost of Gatak's morals.

[00:03:19] He said, it's something that feels very human, which is in order to get ahead. You have to, well, his is obviously an extreme version of it, but you have to like suck up your idealism and step up. Uh, he said, he also doesn't think Gatak feels guilty over that final shootout. He said, my feeling is like, it was worth it to him. I mean, he wanted that job. He looks cool. He's got the girl, but you know that something was lost, but he's definitely happy with her. This is what he wanted.

[00:03:45] He did want that job, but now he has the job and we just know that he sacrificed something that was his moralism in some way that he can't go back. Yeah. He seemed pretty happy at the end. So it's funny to me because it seems like he's saying, yeah, I know people thought that she wasn't, um, she didn't want him the way he was and that, you know, he deserved better and it's never going to work out because of that. But what Mike White is saying is, no, we all compromise. And then that's your life.

[00:04:15] Yeah. And then he made the choice. He had a choice and he made it. Yeah. So, I mean, we all make choices and then we, we go down the path that opens up wherever it may lead. Yeah. And some of us halfway down, they, you get off that path. Maybe once Guy talks, killed as like sixth person, he's going to be like, yeah, I don't, this is taking a toll on me. Or he's like, you know what? This is actually pretty fun. Yeah.

[00:04:46] I think it'd be more kind of like street to law. What did you do? Why are all these people trying to kill you? Yeah. I thought it was just going to be like telling people where the bathrooms were at the white Lotus. Uh, in the behind the scenes clip, after the episode, Mike White talked about the rat lifts. He said, it's a bittersweet ending. Life goes on past the personal Valley, but what's going to happen with their comforts? I don't think Victoria is someone who can live in poverty. I'm sure she can come up with some other solution.

[00:05:16] It sounds like he thinks she'll figure out how to stay rich. Yeah. Makes you wonder if she'll get a divorce. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Um, he also explained that Victoria quote has a superiority complex and it has extended to her kids and it's turned into a little bit of a cult where they're all kind of incestuous that nobody's good enough. And so they're all kind of looking inward, which I thought was an interesting way to look at it.

[00:05:43] They're all just feeling like they're above everyone else. Incestuous is also a good word choice. Yeah. I like the superiority complex. Yeah. Yeah. In a New York times interview, Jason Isaacs who played Timothy said, our life is over as we know it. We're all going to be broken, poor. We won't have a car, a house, a phone. I'll be in prison. Our family name will be in tatters. I mean, it's unimaginable to him.

[00:06:10] I think he's going to be completely wiped out, which at that moment feels okay to him. He's looking forward to being a member of the human race and not feeling like he needs to be better than everyone else. When he looks at the water right at the end, the water flying in the air and joining the ocean again, there's some part of him that feels less alone than he's ever felt. So that's an interesting interpretation of that. I thought he was contemplating jumping in and rejoining the collective consciousness, you know, but maybe he's sort of feeling like he's going to get to rejoin that and still be alive.

[00:06:40] Yeah, I think so. I feel like even for viewers that description of the water going up and coming back was comforting. So I think just remembering it in that moment for him would have been a comfort. Right. But it is tied to death. So it does make you wonder, you know? I mean, I could go deep psychological and think like he's never been poor. Right. So for him, it's kind of a fear of an unknown, but you know, it's the future.

[00:07:09] I always wonder about people who were poor, got rich, and are going to be poor again. Are they like, I can deal with it? Or are they going to be like, oh, no, I never want to be there again. And I'm going to make, you know, I'm going to like go to extremes to make sure that doesn't happen. So this will be interesting. Or it could be interesting, except we're not going to see it. Yeah. I mean, that's a good question. And my guess is it's easier if you've already been poor, because I think, well, this is thematically. So who knows how close that is to reality.

[00:07:37] But the theme of one theme of the season is that we all wear these masks and we're tied to these identities and how closely you're attached to that versus how much can you let go and be open to something else. And it's harder. Like, that's why you have like stockbrokers jumping out of windows because they're so tied to that and they're going to lose it. Right. But if you've already experienced what it's like to be poor, then maybe you, you, it's not the fear of the unknown anymore. It's just like, all right, I got to go back to that. Yeah.

[00:08:04] What you need is like one happy memory while you were poor and one miserable memory when you were rich. And then you're like, yeah. Yeah. My worst memory when I was rich is when I lost all my money. No, I'm just kidding. Patrick Schwarzenegger told variety. I mean, he had some things to say that I didn't think were that interesting, but the one I thought was interesting is he just said, I wonder if Saxon knew that Chelsea died, which, you know, people were asking about that.

[00:08:32] Like, oh, they seem like they didn't really care, but maybe they just didn't know. Yeah. And I, I like two hours after we finished our last week's podcast, I was like, oh, he's like that. Cause he doesn't know because you know, when, you know, you, you see like shootings happened at a school or at a restaurant, right? They don't just release who died within an hour or two. And they were, you know, they got on the boat and left because, you know, they were in the breakfast room and the villa there. They weren't close to the shooting. So they were probably just guests that checked out, got on the boat, wrote off and you know,

[00:09:01] they didn't identify the victims yet. Um, and so they were probably just completely unaware. Now the one thing that I do disagree with was the scene of the two bodies being wheeled out to the plane. Cause I'm like, dude, you still got to do the autopsy, the laptops. The only thing. So yeah, on the boat, the three women, you could tell by their demeanor that they had been through something and the rat lifts didn't seem like it, but maybe the rat lifts would be like, Oh, where's that one couple that came over on this boat with us? Right.

[00:09:31] Well, Timothy didn't like Rick. So he's probably like, Oh, thank God he's not on here smoking. Yeah. Hopefully he's one of the ones that got shot the other day. Right. I would also hope the hotel would be like, all right, we're going to speed up the like checkout process today. So maybe they didn't even get a chance to like, think about it. Yeah. Uh, white talked with Hollywood reporter about Chelsea and Rick. He said, I like the idea of giving Chelsea a lot of prattle.

[00:10:01] That seems like nonsense, but that ultimately you're like, Oh, maybe. And at the end she talks about the group's working divine goal. So whether I believe, believe all that, it's nice to have a voice of that because she has this deep sense of belief, a more fati and that things happen for a reason. Maybe somehow that takes off the edge of the sadness of her death in some way, because it feels like she has some kind of higher power to what happens next. I did feel that way.

[00:10:26] I think it would have been sadder if she hadn't said all that stuff about being together in the next life and everything. Mm hmm. And their destinies being intertwined. And yeah, it does seem like they are just headed to something else. About the three women. White said the ladies petty and large differences have come to the surface. It creates pain for them. So much of the latter years of your life are spent defending the decisions you made or trying to justify your life to yourself for Lori. What is her takeaway?

[00:10:55] How is she going to take this into some kind of lesson to help her in this next stage of her life? And he said, the story of the trio wasn't intended to be a scathing critique of female friendships, but rather how quote, we have these touchstones in our lives and how those people can create suffering for you just by existing. You realize that the shows pleasures come a little bit from these relatable or identifiable types of people who go on vacation, a family that goes on vacation or a honeymoon or three friends.

[00:11:23] I was trying to think what is a new version that isn't the same like of previous seasons, like a slightly different family. But part of me also feels like, and it's the reason why the first episode is called same spirits, new forms. There's an attempt, whether I'm successful or not to deepen what's come before or continue to use certain tropes where the show feels like it's a conversation with itself in some way. I can see that, but I also, especially at the beginning of the season, I started to

[00:11:50] feel like, all right, maybe this is going to start to get old pretty soon. You know, seeing rich people go to the white Lotus and they're all sort of similar. But then as the season went along and it differentiated itself for me anyway. I feel like that's how each season starts out where I'm like, I'm not sure I like any of these people. There's no way I'm gonna. And then by the end, I'm like, all right, I want to hang out with the actors. Like an asshole character from the first episode. Yeah. I mean, okay.

[00:12:19] A family goes on vacation, but every family is so different. So. Yeah. But they're also all similar in the sense that they can afford to go to the white Lotus for vacation. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think he's going to get 12 seasons out of this, but I think two more would be good. About Belinda. He said, Belinda's had a lot of disappointments. Greg has this offer for her. And I thought it would be funny for someone to benefit from this tragedy that befell Tanya.

[00:12:47] He said that ending was actually the first thing he thought of. He says, Belinda leaving with money and leaving somebody in the way she got left in the first season, just because there was some criticism. She was the black character. She was the dutiful put upon worker. And then she got this very sad ending where she's consigned to work there forever while everybody's riding off into the sunset. And some people thought that was accurate. Some people thought that was too depressing or whatever. There was a lot of conversation about that part of it.

[00:13:15] White said her desire to be quote rich for like five minutes felt very honest. He says, maybe she will go and do something meaningful. And I think people do. I'm not that cynical. That kind of was actually an anchoring idea that she would go and have this kind of Stella gets her groove back kind of thing with somebody there. And is maybe fantasizing about maybe starting a business with this person. And then this windfall comes and it's like, I'm out of here. Sorry. And we love her because we are with her. You know, we get it.

[00:13:42] But at the same time, it feels very human and doesn't make it the end of some 80s comedy where you see them put up a sign of their spa for less fortunate people and giving massages to housekeepers or something. Which is what you would expect. Yeah. Yeah. I love it when they don't do the expected ending. And instead it feels like, oh yeah, this is the real ending. Yeah. And it also feels like the story is going to continue.

[00:14:11] Like she didn't just leave with a solid bow. Like she got the money and she's still a perfect person. There's like a little bit of moral gray with her. Yes. And some questions about like, what's going to happen after this, which is real to life. Like her life is going to continue. This wasn't the last bit of drama for her. Yep. And it's good for a potential story too. If you can come up with a good one, we'll want to know what it is. Yeah.

[00:14:37] About the season of the whole Mike White said this season, at least from how I was composing it is using Buddhist ideas as the organizing principle, trying to think about identity as a cause of suffering. I think of identity as a way of thinking about yourself in these concrete literal terms that then end up becoming a source of pain for you. It can be a source of pride, but it also becomes a source of pain. Basically the whole thing is really a kind of dramatic investigation. And that's why the writing is a little different than the other ones.

[00:15:04] Obviously there are satirical elements, but there's a kind of a Buddhist parable like the Rick story. It's a little more hard boiled than something I usually write. So we totally got that and touched on it on the podcast the whole time. Uh, okay. Moving on to sort of a different kind of thing. Patrick source. Nigger was on the tonight show with Jimmy Fallon. He talked about what it was like keeping the story a secret from his fiancee, Abby champion. He says, my fiancee was nagging me nonstop. When I booked this role, she was like, just tell me if you get with people.

[00:15:33] And I said, yes, I do. And she was like, who, which girls do you get with? I was like, I can't tell you. And he said he was actually relieved when she learned the truth. She was like, you got with your brother. You should have told me that way earlier. We would have had no fights. I feel like even though it's something he acted, that would still be a hard conversation to have. Like the character and the actor. Yeah.

[00:16:04] Yeah. I don't know. Depends on who your partner is, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I guess you could have been like, what did white? What did Mike White see in you? Yeah. Right. Mike White was on the Howard Stern show. And instead of reading to you what he said, I have some clips. So this first one is about the feud with Cristobal Tapia Devere, which I talked about last week from Devere's point of view from his New York Times article.

[00:16:34] So here, Mike White, that article came out. Now Mike White is responding to it. The music is great on the show. But the guy who makes the music was giving you a hard time. What happened there? Oh, man. I honestly don't know what happened except now I'm reading his interviews because he decides to do some PR campaign about him leaving the show. And reading the interviews, I just realized he, you know, I don't know. I just don't think he respected me. He, like, wants people to know that he's edgy and dark.

[00:17:04] And I'm, I don't know, like, I watch reality TV. I don't know what he's, but so yeah. So I realized, like, because we never really even thought, I don't know what he's talking about. He's supposed to be disputed. I don't think I ever had a fight with him except maybe some emails. I knew he was not, like, a team player and that he wanted to do it his way or whatever. But I was thrown that he would, like, go to the New York Times to shit on me and the show, like, three days before the finale. It was like kind of a bitch move.

[00:17:33] He'd won Emmys and I don't know, he had his song go viral. And so he just did not want to go through the process anymore. He didn't want to get votes from me. He didn't want to go to spotting sessions. And he would just always look at me like, he always had like this, like, contemptuous, like, smirk on his face whenever he was dealing with me because I just think he thought I was just a chimp or something. I don't know. Why quit a smash hit show because you got some notes and some differences? Just fucking work it out. It's, you know, well, he's very talented.

[00:18:02] Well, I mean, he's got a lot of runway now. He's coming off of White Lotus. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he has done. I wish I would have looked it up. I know he did the soundtrack to this movie, the girl with all the gifts. That's one of my favorite zombie books, but he's done more prominent stuff than that. I just can't remember what it was. I mean, I can't imagine any other project in which, you know, someone's going to veto him at this point. Right. I mean, White Lotus is pretty big.

[00:18:32] So he's going to get his way for a while and then we'll see. It just feels like it's so ironic, unfortunate that this season about spirituality and Buddhism and ego. And then two guys are fighting like that, you know, and I don't know who's right or wrong, but I just wish mom and dad would get along. I know. It always sucks when you hear that there is like drama behind the scenes. Yeah. Come on.

[00:19:01] And, you know, I wouldn't normally actually go into that. There's some drama, other drama about White Lotus I've heard, but we won't even talk about it. But just because it's about the music and it's going to be gone now. And then I decided to talk about it. Yeah. Maybe I could see this being a gambit to like get paid more for the next season. Maybe if anyone is listening to this, who has any impact on it, please drop your egos and be together. Make it work. Yeah.

[00:19:30] Return to the collective consciousness. Yeah. You can quit again after season four. Five. Okay. Here's another Stern clip. This was about casting Jennifer Coolidge and also Patrick Schwarzenegger. Jennifer Coolidge was a brilliant piece of casting. You put her in White Lotus and her career explodes. There must be such satisfaction in coming up with these quirky castings. Is that just a rush for you?

[00:19:57] With her particularly, because she's been my friend for like decades and she's such a great person. The business has a lot of ups and downs and humiliations. And I have seen her go through all the different iterations of that. And actually, I had written a script for her just like two years earlier and I was trying to set it up with her and people didn't really believe in her as a leading person. And so, yeah, it was very satisfying, especially with her. Well, you put Patrick Schwarzenegger on the map.

[00:20:26] I mean, he gave the kid a chance to prove himself as an actor in a serious role. He's also just a great kid. He's just got such a great personality and so much fun. But yeah, when his audition came in and, you know, he's doing these scenes with this whole incest storyline and like in him, like having this like gay panic, knowing that he's Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I was just like, this is funny in a like deep, better way. We've got to go with it. Is it true that you originally had Woody Harrelson to play the Walter Goggins part? He was actually supposed to do the Sam Rockwell part.

[00:20:55] And it was at the end of our shoot. So we were going to Bangkok at the very end and he only had to work like two weeks or something. And our schedule kept changing. Our shoot extended. There was weather stuff and all that. And so it's a very white Lotus bougie, but even having a huge like destination birthday somewhere in Europe or something. And he had all his friends had already like bought tickets and were coming. And so like he just, it was no longer seemed feasible.

[00:21:22] Yeah. So we thought we heard it was going to be Rick, but it was Frank, which that might have been interesting to see Woody Harrelson. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I think it was perfect. It was perfect. The way it is. Yeah. That monologue. Yeah. You're right. Absolutely. Can't be beat. That would have been interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure Woody Harrelson would have made it interesting, but then I wouldn't want to have missed what we got. Right. Yeah. There's something else.

[00:21:49] Oh, I, I saw, I didn't include it, but Patrick Schwarzenegger had put up on Instagram. He filmed it when he first told his mom, who's Maria Shriver, that he got the role and he's like, we have something to tell you. Cause it was him and his fiance and she's like, you're pregnant. And he's like, no, no, no, no. We're going to Thailand. And she goes, you got the part. And she was so effusive that he started almost crying. He's like, you're going to make me cry.

[00:22:17] It was weird to see Saxon get all like emotive like that. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. Okay. Last piece of news. Here's Mike White talking to Howard Stern about criticism of this season of the white Lotus. I just realized now I'm in this place where like, no matter what I do, there's going to be, oh, it should have been what it was like in season two, or they should have done this. You know, there's been so many reactions to the finale.

[00:22:44] And you know, now that it's like this big hit, I think people, you know, are criticizing the show in certain ways, but also just the phenomenon. And, you know, so it's like they're meaner in ways that I'm not used to, cause I'm used to being this kind of like underdog indie writer that people are more championing. And so like some of that stuff does make me feel misunderstood or whatever. Once a show becomes a hit, you're right. Everyone becomes a critic and everyone's got something to say, but the season was great. It really was. Thank you. And we got good reviews.

[00:23:13] It wasn't like that, but it was just like the ones that are meaner, the mean ones are gone meaner. And like now they don't like me. What happened? Why, why be feeling the club? I guess that's success or something, but it does bum me out. I gotta be honest. Is there a specific comment that really bummed you out? I find the ones that drive me crazy are the ones where like, wouldn't they be interviewed by police?

[00:23:36] I mean, like little like logic police, literal police kind of, you know, like she wouldn't have left there. She would have done that. And I mean, that's, that part is stupid. Listen, I'm telling you, you did a great job. Take it from me. I appreciate it. Yeah. That's gotta be so frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:01] I mean, we really wanted the finale to have some nice police interviewing. Right. Yeah. That's just like so much fun to watch. I mean, I, I, you know, I, I just indulged in this earlier in this episode, not that I was criticizing him, but I was trying to explain it from that point of view. Um, but yeah. Yeah. You know, I think people were just trying to ask for some sort of basis of reality. Right. Yeah.

[00:24:30] They didn't want it to be too weird. Cause it takes them out as you've pointed out in the past. So. Yeah. It's, you got to find that line between, um, what works best dramatically and what seems like it could actually happen. And some shows like I, I would say breaking bad. They really thought through what would actually happen and how can we make the most of that dramatically. They did such a good job of that, but there were, we were a lot of logical details in that show.

[00:24:54] And you might not even want that in every show, even if it does work dramatically, you know, some shows, you just want it to be more about the, the thrills and the relationships and the psychology and whatever. And it's okay to cut a few corners and stuff, you know? Yep. Yeah. And also the show has gotten so big. So now there's more people watching. There are people who watching who didn't know about it before. I mean, I have liked it before either. Uh, we're trying it out.

[00:25:19] Uh, what I love about the show is that so many people have so many different opinions on it. I mean, if this does not prove to you how hard it is to get a jury to agree on what is reasonable doubt. Oh my God. We've just encountered a hundred thousand different definitions of the hat. Yeah. Oh, no one would ever do that. Oh no, I would totally do that. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I mean, both of those things are kind of true. Like I said, at the top of this podcast, this is our most popular podcast right now.

[00:25:49] And some of our lesser popular ones get five star reviews on Apple podcasts because the people listening just love it. Whenever we start to get more popular, we get more critiques. Right. And so now, and we have reviews, like one review, somebody said, I'm giving this two stars because they think that the song has lululus in it and it absolutely doesn't. And then somebody else wrote to us and said, I think it was in a review too, and said, as soon as I heard those lululus, I knew this was the podcast for me. Right.

[00:26:18] There's always going to be varying, differing opinions on every specific thing. There is no right or wrong when it comes to entertainment. Yeah. But when I'm doing a podcast and I start getting critiques, I know, all right, I guess we're finally reaching people. Even the people who aren't interested are here now. Yeah, hello. Hello, hello. Hello. Hello, hello, hello.

[00:26:42] That is all.

[00:27:21] to Shopify gewechselt. The platform, the before Shopify used, has used regularly updates, which have sometimes led to that the shop didn't work. Our Nemo Boards is also a good figure and the illustrations on the boards come now much clearer what is important and what our brand also does. Start your test for 1€ per month on shopify.de slash radio. Alright, we're back and we're gonna get

[00:27:50] into some guest feedback. So, let's go. Christina Spinney says, I'm feeling for Pornshy. Belinda's speech to him about leaving may have been verbatim or at least very close to what Tanya said to her. Damn. Damn. Agreed. Rough. Poor guy. Yeah, and I had been thinking like, I don't think she was as bad as Tanya because Tanya was more like, let's get, make the plan

[00:28:19] and I'm really interested and it was barely much of a conversation between Belinda and Pornshy. But then somebody mentioned, oh, but she also seemed interested in him. They slept together. Yeah. So in that way, it's like, oh, that kind of hurt. Yeah, it's more the relationship something changed and I gotta leave. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Juan Villavicencio says, my predictions were, Ratliff's would find out the truth, Rick would die and girlfriend from Crossfire,

[00:28:49] Gary would kill Belinda, and Guy Talk would die after discovering the robbery. Wow, that's quite the body count. Everyone dies. He got 50% right. Yeah. Madavi Mudling says, I had such mixed feelings about how Belinda ended it with Pornshy. If only she hadn't told him about Greg. What? Then she could explain the money by saying this guy invested because his wife had already been intending to, but she knew

[00:29:19] she'd be judged for taking hush money and couldn't take the chance on how he might react. It might have tainted what they had. Makes me so sad to think that she may have missed out on true love and a happy future with him, but will never know now. I was happy for her, though, that she did something selfish for herself for once. Good for her. I don't think that had any impact, honestly. I think she just was like, oh, I have money now and that makes me realize that I'm not into this. I don't think it was because she didn't want to reveal to him that she took Greg's money.

[00:29:49] Although it is interesting because she did reveal what she knew about Greg to Pornshy. So that is another person on the island who knows Greg's secret. It's a loose end. Yeah. And he hasn't been paid off. So if she did say, I now have five million dollars, he might be like, wait, maybe you're right. Did you go to Greg? I feel like, yeah, something I hadn't thought about. But, you know, she didn't tell him that she had five million dollars. She just said, I gotta go. That's the point. Yeah.

[00:30:19] But she also told Fabian and he's going to be no problem at all for Greg. Well, maybe they'll have a reward for, you know, reporting where Greg is and Pornshy will cash that in. Yeah. Well, I did see something saying that the watch Fabian was wearing is like a $40,000 watch, which maybe could just be a design thing. But if he's got a $40,000 watch, maybe he's already being paid off

[00:30:48] by Greg. Yeah. He seemed pretty protective of him. Mm-hmm. Jess Inez says, Hi there from Australia. Hi. I just wanted to send a quick appreciation email. I never reach out to podcasts, but you guys are amazing. Oh, I just discovered White Lotus and I've been binging all three seasons and listening to your podcast after each episode. I'm a dairy farmer and it takes a lot for me to dedicate my time and energy

[00:31:17] to a TV show as I am tired. But White Lotus has me hooked. I stay up late watching each episode and listen to you guys while I'm doing my farm chores. I love your intelligent banter and listening to all your interesting theories and funny stories. Keep up the great work. I look forward to listening to more of your podcasts. Oh, that's awesome. I'm honored. Do you ever let the cows listen? Maybe you could enrich

[00:31:46] their experience. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah, I love it. I love it when I hear people are listening to our podcast doing interesting things like that. It's cool. Yeah. Cheers. And I appreciate that, you know, with your very scant-free time that you're spending it with us. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So call in. Yeah, call in. Give us that Australian accent. Amber Elizabeth says, love the podcast. I want to thank you for being so detailed because it makes rewatches so fun for myself and

[00:32:16] my best friend who's also a listener. Hey, best friend. I haven't finished up the most recent episode, so I'm not sure if you guys hit up on this tidbit. The scene when Rick is carrying Chelsea's lifeless body down the pier, Amy Lou Wood said it was one of the hottest days of shooting. Poor Walton had to film that scene multiple times. I went back and watched that scene again and it's painful. You can see the sweat just dripping off Walton's hair and his hair is the flattest we've seen it all season. Thanks again for this enjoyable

[00:32:46] podcast. I'll see you at the White Lotus for season four resort managers. I saw Parker Posey on this Seth Meyer late night show and she was just saying it's hot. It's so hot there. It's like, oh my God. You know, she said she had a thing of ice that she would keep between her legs and then another one next to her chair. Wow. They did a good job of making them not look incredibly hot, which they probably were.

[00:33:16] Yeah. Yeah. And they did like there. I remember when I was there, it's been so long now over 20 years, but it was hot and there were bugs, lots of mosquitoes and they didn't really include that in the plot except when Saxon was feeling really uncomfortable and suddenly seemed to notice them and need a lot of bug spray. Yeah. Amelie Rochette says, so what D car Jason, Jenny and Randy? I love season three and this much. I'm glad you liked it. The photography in this episode was just beautiful.

[00:33:46] Mike White really spoiled us with some beautiful images in this epilogue. The metaphor symbolizing the cycle from life to death of the drop of water returning to the ocean was brilliantly represented on several occasions. Lachlan dying in the pool while the monks watch from above, Rick and Chelsea's bodies in the pond, and of course the last tear Chelsea sheds as she takes her last breath, et cetera. Conversely, we also see Tim watching drops spurred out of the ocean when he's on the boat with his family on the way home. This image brings a smile

[00:34:16] to Tim's face as if his family members were now heading for life rather than death. There's so much more to unpack about this finale. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. Well, hearing what Jason Isaacs had to say about it, I think that's closer to your interpretation than me just thinking he was contemplating suicide. Yeah. Yeah, I really like that. They're headed to life rather than death. All right, here's a call from Jenny Ryan. Jenny!

[00:34:45] Hello, White Lotus friends. Jenny from Saskatoon here. Just a couple of things to be said about that episode, the finale that I didn't think was great, but I'm sure that the more I think about it, the more interesting it will be. First thing I wanted to say, although I'm sure many people have already said this, is that I really liked how Belinda turned into Tanya and Tanya to Porn Chai. That was a great twist. Don't love what it did to Belinda, but I love what it did for the story. The other thing is I'm not sure how

[00:35:14] many people paused to see what Belinda spent her money on when we saw her bank account, and I thought it was great that she owed the Hawaiian library $68.16. As a librarian, I can tell you I don't think this was overdue charges. I think this was for lost material, and I think sometimes, well what happens is people go on trips, they go away for a long time, and they come into the library and they settle up their debts, and so I think she was paying for material that she lost.

[00:35:43] So, anyway, lost books. Anyway, one thing is the Hawaiian library is the only library system in the Americas, the Americas, who am I, in the United States, the only library system in the United States that is statewide. Everywhere else is like regional or county or however you divide up your land mass. Okay, I'm sure some of you found that fascinating, and some of you did not care. But anyway, much like the episode,

[00:36:13] some of you probably thought it was fascinating, and some of you thought it was a letdown. Okay, have a great day. Bye. That's great that Jenny brought her librarian experience to four. Yeah, there were all so many aspects of the show we were unaware of that she was cued into. I hadn't thought to pause on Belinda's screen. That was a really good idea. Yeah. To go back and look again. Yeah, that seems like something you would have done. Yeah.

[00:36:43] We'll do another episode next week. Yeah, yeah. Each week we just do one more on it. Gloria Hernan says, I didn't love this ending. I was never too interested in the guy talk mook relationship. I thought they were boring. Plus in the end, I would have told her to fuck off. She wasn't really into guy talk, only how successful and rich he could become. I did enjoy the three friends storyline. Carrie Coon was amazing.

[00:37:13] I was very disappointed that we didn't get to see Tim explain to his family about what he did and what they were going home to. And he wasn't even held responsible for stealing his wife's meds. I would have liked her to make a scene yelling at them. Yeah, that would have been good. Chelsea and Rick dying was heartbreaking and surprisingly, I believe Saxon had the best arc in the whole show. He really learned about himself and came out of it a different guy. Hopefully. I was happy for Belinda but felt

[00:37:42] extremely bad for Porn Chai. But then again, they didn't know each other that long. That's true. It was just a quick little whirlwind one night, a lizard in the room. It seems like, Gloria, that you wanted this show to be more like where everybody improves out of it. I just think the way Mike White writes these is maybe one or two people improve. Yeah. And it's usually the guy you're not expecting, like Saxon.

[00:38:13] I remember reading an interview with Lalisa and you know, just before the show started and she said, I think people are going to like the Guy Tocmoc storyline. I'm paraphrasing her there. And I'm not sure people do. A lot of people seem judgmental of her and yeah. And also just think it wasn't interesting enough. You know, that's what I think it was.

[00:38:44] I'm not sure the word is brave, but you know, I do believe that in her line of work, they're not really allowed to play edgy characters. characters. So, you know, in a way this was kind of edgy for her career because she's not playing a 100% sympathetic character. But she had a lot of great scenes in which she was just gorgeous and danced beautifully and we very much appreciated all those scenes. Well, at least I did. I love their chemistry. And then when you see them in interviews, they have that chemistry.

[00:39:14] Yeah. So you can tell they brought it into the show and that really made it for me. I also, I didn't feel as judgmental towards her as everyone else because I don't agree that she didn't like him. I think she liked him but wanted, she didn't like all of him. She wanted him to make sure, okay, I like him enough to want to be with him for the rest of my life, but only if he's going to be secure, if we're going to be secure together, not even rich, but just enough

[00:39:44] comfortable and that he's going to have some go-get-em-ness in life. And I think there's a lot of girlfriends who want that from their boyfriend, so I just didn't feel as judgmental as a lot of people. Maybe more about the violence, like wanting him to be violent, that goes against the spiritual principle, so that cuts deeper, but that's the white lotus-ness of it all. We compromise certain parts of ourselves or whatever. Yeah, I mean, they take a normal human interaction and they blow it up so that the consequences

[00:40:13] are big, because this is the white lotus. But yeah, this is no different from a girlfriend saying, like, wait, wait, wait, you're actually just gonna, like, not go for that management position? Yeah, totally. You're gonna be, like, a server for the next 20 years? What? What? You know? Shoot the line, cook, and work your way up the ladder, damn it. Kim from Nova Scotia says, Hi, everyone. Your show is fantastic. I listen to it because I can't get enough of the white lotus. I liked all the seasons

[00:40:43] for different reasons. The first were the generational gaps, social commentary about class and race, and it really does touch concerns of our time. The second to me was the most fun to watch. The third, though darker, was a bit deeper and more spiritual. The character development is out of this world. The music is so good, and I am disappointed that I won't be the same musician. The credits are so beautiful. I watch them every time, which is something I usually skip on other shows. Same. I find the social commentary

[00:41:12] of the day is what keeps me coming for more. It's like modern day Shakespeare. It has everything. I was just Googling the actor who played Chloe, and she is a Canadian actor. I recognized her accent right away as French-Canadian. I had to check. It would be hard to get that one just right. I love that modern day Shakespeare. That just hits so perfectly, I think. Yep. Especially if it makes the young uns go out and read Shakespeare. Yeah. I mean, just the

[00:41:42] sprawling cast, the different status levels, the compromises, and people hiding behind masks, and all that. Yeah, very good. Yeah. Lisa Edmonds Walker says that was quite a rollercoaster. We called it about the Darth Vader situation with Rick. I'm sorry he cost Chelsea her life. Between her saying bad things happen in threes, and they would be together for the rest of their lives, I guess it was inevitable. It was sad to see Mok only interested in Gatak when he went against his nature.

[00:42:12] I haven't seen season one in a long time, but didn't Belinda's speech to Pornchise sound almost exactly the same as Tanya's to her at the end? It was close, yeah. Not cool. She could leave Thailand, and he could have gone with her too. I guess Gary slash Greg gets to continue his creepy malevolent stares while the party goes on around him, and the robbers get away with everything. I thought Gatak was toast when Valentin told him, that he knew Gatak figured it out. How did the whole Ratliff family avoid being poisoned?

[00:42:41] I would have expected them all to get at least a little bit sick from a big sip of their drinks. Even Lachlan survived the remnants of the seeds. Apparently it takes a lot of the undiluted seeds to do someone in. Can't wait to hear the pod. Yeah, I agree. They should have at least gotten sick and thought they came down with something or something. Yeah, most of them only took a sip. It sounds like it really wasn't good, so I don't think they were taking a big old gulp of it. The coconut milk is off. Yeah, the coconut milk's off. You've seen the

[00:43:12] Coffee Mate creamer that has pina colada flavored that they didn't realize that was what the storyline. Did you know that, Jenny? There's White Lotus branded Coffee Mate pina colada flavor, and apparently Coffee Mate didn't know the ending of this when they made that deal. So are sales going through the roof? I don't know. It's keeping them in the news, so. It's not like pong pong fruit flavored.

[00:43:43] That would have done so much better. Wait, wait. Okay. What, pina colada flavored creamer? Yeah. Like for your coffee? We should get some. I'm going to try it out. Okay, we got to try it out. All right, here's a call from Jody Murrell. Hi, Jason, Jenny, and Randy. Jody from Australia here. I've kind of been waiting to send in this feedback because I wasn't sure whether anyone else would kind of say it first, but I haven't really heard anyone share this, so here are

[00:44:13] my unpopular opinions about Belinda and Mook. So, Belinda first. I'm kind of objecting to people comparing her to Tanya with Belinda refusing to start a business with Pawn Chai at the end of the series. I will note before I get into this that my opinion is likely being heavily coloured by my own issues of hyper-independence and emotional unavailability because I was yelling at Belinda not to do anything further with him except a nice fun holiday romance,

[00:44:43] even before they got the money. But anyway, here we are. So, Pawn Chai asked Belinda to start a business with him in Thailand. He literally has nothing to lose. He's asking her to move to his country where he's comfortable and knows how things work, he understands the culture, he speaks the language, he's got all the knowledge. In this scenario, Belinda has everything to lose. Pawn Chai was asking her to give up her home, her family, her son, her support system and moved to

[00:45:13] a country which has completely different property laws, taxation laws, commercial business laws and in which she has no idea how to navigate the social, economic and political systems in order to start and run a successful business. Every country has weird ass laws when it comes to navigating, especially commercial business laws, oh my God, the Australian ones, whoa. And Belinda knows nothing about this in Thailand, so she knows this stuff at home, she'd be a lot more successful at home.

[00:45:42] Second thing is he's locally engaged staff in Thailand, she's international. In my personal experience in Southeast Asian countries that I've lived and worked in and travelled around, there's a two-tiered system in most Southeast Asian countries. Internationals pay more for things like tickets to tourist attractions, for public transport, even sometimes food in restaurants because of the perception they have more money than locals and so they should contribute more to the economy. It's fair enough, but in

[00:46:12] this case, in Paunchai's eyes, Belinda is an international who immediately has a lot more money than he does, which is why he's suggesting they start a business together. He's looking to take advantage of his perception that she has money because he's viewing her as an international despite the fact that she's on a staff exchange. Finally, she's only been there a week. It's insane to ask her to stay and be in love with a man whose house she hasn't even been to.

[00:46:41] He was at work the whole time. She hasn't actually seen who he really is. They never left the property of the White Lotus. She doesn't know what his normal day is like. She hasn't seen him on his days off. She doesn't know his family. She has no idea who he really is when he's not at work. Just as Belinda had her professional mask in season one, Guy Talk has his in season three. Yes, they're both staff, but like I said, he was at work the whole time.

[00:47:11] I bet he's not like that when he goes down to the White Room for dinner on his days off and chats to his mates. Now, Mook. I'm just pausing it here because I agree with some of the stuff you said, especially how little they know each other and also that, yeah, being in a foreign country where this person knows all the rules and you don't. I mean, if she made that choice, that would be her own choice. But I guess the part where I'm not sure is it seems like you're sort of maybe

[00:47:40] saying that he was trying to intentionally take advantage of her and that situation. And I got the sense more it was just like, hey, we're having a good time here. We both want to do this business. You said you wanted to start a business. Thailand would be a cheap place where we could actually, it would actually be viable versus somewhere else. I mean, if you're going to give him the benefit of the doubt, I would say it would maybe be more like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought so too. I mean, it wasn't like you said, like, hey, hey, I got a plan. I got a business plan.

[00:48:10] 20 pages written all up. You know, he was just like, hey, hey, maybe you could open one here. You know, it's just a suggestion. And then I'm sure any reasonable person would just be like, oh, huh. Let me think about it. Right. And, you know, she's not holding all the cards. She has a freaking U.S. passport. Yeah. She could be out of here. It is flash, right? But when he said that, I thought, oh, that's weird to want to jump into something, a big commitment like that after you only have

[00:48:39] known each other for a short time. And that's why, as Belinda, I would have been like, that would have set red flags to me. Yeah. Yeah. A little too eager. Yeah. And it's how you say it. He did say it in a pretty serious tone instead of a sort of, oh, you know, there's a lot of things you can try. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. But he also seemed like a good hearted person to me. Yeah. Which season four could be Pornshaw's whole backstory and how he's actually an evil person and she just dodged the bullet. That's true. You're right.

[00:49:10] All right. Here's the rest of her voicemail. Something that I think everyone is ignoring about Mook. Her moped broke down at the beginning of the show and it was romantic. Gaitok got the opportunity to give her a ride to work and have a chat. But she also mentions that her mother is unwell and she has to look after her. So both of those things sort of subtly demonstrate that Mook is not from a family with resources. And also in the Southeast Asian country, there's a big emphasis on looking after family and your elders.

[00:49:40] Mook is of the age where most of the responsibility, probably for her entire family, elderly and ailing parents and any sibling she has as well falls onto her. She's managed to position herself into a great job at the White Lotus and is also dancing in the evenings for the guests and I'm assuming she's getting paid for that as well. So she's demonstrating her own ambitions to improve her status and financial standing for herself and her family. But at the moment, she and her family are financially on the edge. That's the

[00:50:09] impression that I got from what she said. For these reasons alone, Mook cannot afford to consider being with a man who's potentially going to go from having a good, well-paid security job to starting over because he's having some feelings. In the show, Guy Talk is not presented as having any of these kinds of familial responsibilities and financial difficulties that Mook is being pressured by and is having to consider when she makes decisions about her life. Mook simply does not have the luxury of indulging emotions like love

[00:50:39] and moral philosophies. She's in survival mode. She needs a partner whose ambitions not only match her own but will also help her shoulder the responsibilities of her family. I also think she genuinely does like Guy Talk, which is why she was so disappointed when he was talking about quitting and finding a different job and essentially starting again from the bottom. She can't afford to do that. She has responsibilities to fulfil. She needs to keep going and find ways to earn more money and take care of her family.

[00:51:08] I may be reading too much into it but I'm basing my comments on my personal experience of working with locally engaged staff when I worked overseas and in Southeast Asian countries and we would do really what we thought were little things in the office to try and support them just in their lives. We'd create an extra long lunch break so that those who had to go home and cook for their relatives at lunchtime and make sure their relatives were taken care of in the middle of the day, they could do so without any sort of sense of judgment

[00:51:37] or even without having to tell us we just had a super long lunch, do what you wanted to do and then if they were late back we'd just sort of turn the other way because we knew they had responsibilities that they had to fulfil. So that's kind of how I thought about MOOC and I just wanted to give her a big hug. So I love the coverage that you guys did of the show. Thanks again. It was really, really great. Take care. Bye. Thanks, Jodi. Yeah, thank you. I love every time Jodi calls in because I feel like a week

[00:52:07] later I have like an epiphany thinking about what she has said where I'm like, oh my god, yep, yep, she was right about that. Yeah. So I appreciate your calls. With MOOC and Zutok, I agree with you for the most part, although I think it's not strictly about the logic of her situation or the, you know, the practical. I think that plays a huge part in it for MOOC, but also I think it's a feeling thing for her too. That's the sense I got that she actually does have feelings for

[00:52:36] Gatak, but she needs the money part to work too. And it's because of her life situation, but also just because she wants someone who's on the same wavelength of her that does want to go places in life, you know, and be and have that killer instinct. I think that's a feeling thing as much as it is like wanting to make sure that someone can be there to help you support your family. That's just my sense of it. I don't know. To be fair, we don't see her like dating other people in the show. The only one she seems to be courting is

[00:53:05] Guy Talk. So. Yeah, it's kind of hard to believe, man. I'm surprised not like the entire hotel wasn't like Jason Allen. But no, I mean, I agree with what Jodi says. I mean, yeah, people are just kind of reacting emotionally when they comment on Guy Talk and Malk's story. But, you know, it's I think the sad thing about it, about the story is not like each individual is good or bad or compromised or something. It's just we're wired

[00:53:35] the way we are. We have certain feelings the way we do. And then the circumstances are the way they are. And sometimes not all three get along to have a super happy ending. Something has to get and that's just the way it is. Yeah. Yeah. And and if it was too much against Guy Talk's identity or against his morals to be the kind of person that she wanted him to be, then then it's up to him to say, no, I'm sorry.

[00:54:05] I can't do that. You know? Yeah. She's pretty straightforward at the beginning and says, here are my expectations. If those are expectations you can meet, then sure, this relationship can happen. And he continues with it. So, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, you could argue, well, you shouldn't pressure someone and I think there's merit to that, but also ultimately it's up to him to be like, nope. Yep. Or yes. Cynthia Rimbold says, greetings, resort managers. I've enjoyed your

[00:54:34] podcast very much this season. I'm sad yet, relieved Chelsea can now chase down Rick in the afterlife. Perhaps they'll be more compatible in that sacred space? I know we're supposed to root for them in some way, but their dynamic was abusive on both ends. Rick was completely repulsed by all the things Chelsea. His last words to her were actually, get the fuck out of here. I know this was to protect her, but I just can't unhear the poetry in that. Rick's emotional abuse

[00:55:04] was front and center, but Chelsea's abuse was a little more covert. She is selfish, caring and worrying for Rick's benefits for her own desires. If she truly cared, she would knock off the toxic positivity and make an earnest effort to understand that some people respond to trauma differently. Grabbing that donut as Rick storms out is all you need to know. That was objectively hilarious, sure, but also a true illustration of her inability to take Rick seriously.

[00:55:34] Or anything, really. She's actually quite simple-minded and hides behind this spiritual rhetoric in order to remain in toxic, blissful state of mind all for herself. Contrary to what she gives off. However, my heart melted when Rick gave her that. That's the plan, breadcrumb. Mike White is a genius. I was deeply satisfied with the finale. I'm glad you mentioned the donut because

[00:56:03] they really focused on it and I meant to bring it up last episode. I had no idea what that was about, but I can kind of see this interpretation of her just being like, yeah, this is just Rick. I have time to eat a donut before I rush after him. I mean, with that, your whole message, I was like, wow, that is really cynical, but now it's making me think, okay, Rick is attached to negativity, Chelsea's attached to positivity in ways where they are, they're fixated on it,

[00:56:33] you know, and then that stops them from seeing what's real sometimes. Yeah. Awesome. Dana Smith says, thanks for your in-depth coverage of season three. I really enjoyed your commentary and analysis. In regards to season four of The White Lotus, I have heard two rumors. It may be filmed in either Greece or South Africa. If Mike White picks Greece, we will undoubtedly be seeing references to ancient mythology, which could be amusing. But I'm rooting for

[00:57:03] Cape Town, South Africa. It's a gorgeous city with incredibly diverse cultures and languages. South Africa has 11 official languages. Not to mention the intense political history of the country. Mike White would have a lot to work with. I hope he doesn't go back to Europe, but instead continues to expand the White Lotus universe on a global scale. As far as dreamcasting, I've broken it down into groups. Rob Delaney and Sharon Horgan from Catastrophe. They already have brilliant chemistry,

[00:57:32] so they can shortcut to being a married couple in the next season. Cole Escola and B.B. Newworth, both New York theater legends. Cole would obviously make a great White Lotus manager. John Cusack and Bonnie Hunt. Oh, sorry. Joan Cusack and Bonnie Hunt. I'm a Chicagoan, so I am partial to my local heroes who the younger generations need to see. Speaking of 1990s icons, why not Tia Leone and Minnie Driver? Their talent is matchless.

[00:58:01] I want them back on my screen. Lastly, Britt Marling or anyone else from the O.A. Jason Isaacs, who played the O.A.'s villain, has paved the way for them. Thanks for indulging me. See you in a couple years. What is O.A.? It's a show that was on Netflix. I think Scott, the guy who played Herschel from Walking Dead. What the hell is his name? Oh, Scott Wilson. Scott Wilson was in that too. I never watched it, though. And Dana, I don't know most of these people.

[00:58:31] I know B.B. Newworth, Tia Leone, and Minnie Driver, but I don't really know Britt Marling. You don't know Joan Cusack? Oh, Joan Cusack, yeah. And Bonnie Hunt, too. I'm like, what year were you born? I mean, you had accidentally said John Cusack, and I was like, yeah, John Cusack. Catastrophe was a TV show I've heard good things about, but I haven't seen it. Cola Scola, I can't say I'm a fan, but I saw one YouTube video that was so good that

[00:59:01] when I heard he has a Broadway show on right now, I just bought tickets. Oh, cool. Nice. That's all I know. I don't, they keep saying Europe, so I don't think it's going to be Cape Town unless they surprise us, but that would be cool. I mean, we just need another fever dream for Mike White, you know? Yeah, right. He goes to Europe, and then he gets pneumonia, and then he'd be like, no! And then, you know, he's a Madagascar. Oh, Madagascar. Or if he runs out of gas and has to walk a mile and

[00:59:31] thinks of the whole plot. Yeah. So if we're going to talk about dream casting, I'm going to throw out Natasha Leon and Tim Roth. Nice. Yes. Jenny's had a thing about Tim Roth ever since I've known her. That'd be awesome. I think I would go Coleman Domingo. Yes. From Fear. I think he'd be great. And Jennifer Tilly. Yeah. Yes. Very good. Man, I forgot to think

[01:00:01] about this. I mean, throw Andrew Lincoln in there. Why not? Yeah, why not? Yeah. See, I could see him playing a very rich, posh guy. Yeah. I heard this podcast, this dramatic podcast, where he was like a genetic scientist, kind of a nefarious. And he got on there and he was like this. And it wasn't Rick Grimes at all. It was amazing. That's great. Okay. Valtressa Washington says, hi guys. Well, where do I start with my favorite

[01:00:31] storylines of Rick and Chelsea? I was blown away by how much the reunion between Rick and Chelsea affected Saxon, who looks saddened due to him not having a deep relationship. It was good for him to see that it's possible to feel like that. Poor Chelsea. When she said they'll love each other for the rest of their lives, she meant it. On another note, I know it was just like one more day. On another note, when the man tells you to run, do it. It was no shock that Jim ended up being Rick's father, but it was a shock when he found out that he was his father.

[01:01:01] Yeah. Right after he killed him. I was scared for Belinda to talk to Gary slash Craig, but I'm glad she figured out how to play the game. I really hope we see Belinda and Zion in season four because I love their chemistry. Yeah, they're good. Yeah. I totally understand why she had to leave and it sucked. She had to pull a Tanya on porn chai. I hope she comes back to get him when she figures out who she wants to be in her new life. Lori's speech is heartbreaking, but deep. I'm glad they worked it out.

[01:01:30] Tim still couldn't tell his family what's happening. Just that things will be different. Ugh. I mean, they got it just by Google news. Or all of the messages they missed. Right. For the rest of his life, Lockie is going to think that bad coconut milk almost killed him. That bad coconut milk almost killed him because Tim will never tell him what really happened. I mean, I wouldn't. I don't know. But look, Lockie is going to go the rest of his life being super clean in the kitchen. Yeah. Clean out the blender, Lockie.

[01:02:01] The future girl or boyfriend is going to be like, man. Benefit from that. This is great. I love spending time with you all and looking forward to spending season four in Greece with you. Thanks, Veltressa. Yeah, thank you. it was there, yeah. Yeah. Okay, here is a call from Jonathan Bookalil, who I think there's a video accompanying this and I'm pretty sure he's going to post it on our Podcastica Facebook group. So if you just go, if you want to join that, go to Facebook

[01:02:30] and search Podcastica. But here's Jonathan. Greetings, Jenny, Jason, and Randy and fellow guests of the White Lotus. Here I am in Ho-Sumui reporting from Ho-Sumui the Fisherman's Wharf Night Market where I think a couple of scenes have been shot. It's hot, the food is fantastic. It's been a fantastic week cruising around with my motorcycle. If you ever get to come here,

[01:02:59] you should. No murders at my hotel yet. Been loving the podcast of what's episode six all queued up for tonight and I'll put a report in the morning. Well, here we are at the gates of the monastery. my side of the we'll see if we can ride up. Well, I believe we're in the right

[01:03:28] place, but with the magic of Hollywood it looks very different. Look for a monk with an Apple laptop. So we shall ride on. But as for the episode, let me just say it was an interesting one. We have a sex worker drugging two brothers, 118, one that's never done drugs before and it's actually played

[01:03:58] for a bit of a laugh. And they're encouraged to engage in sexual matters, the two brothers which having been sober they would not have consented to. And then the following day when it all comes to light the sex worker decides to blackmail him into further sex. It was interesting how it was treated. But it is White Lotus. Well, I guess the theme for

[01:04:28] this season was crime pays. And I feel like this season suffered from rushing things a bit. We had several tropes at the end, we had the wrong person, getting poisoned, unexpected death by Ricochet and I can't believe they did it but they did it, Darth Vader, I am your father ending. Guy talk shot an unarmed man in the back with Mook finally coming around after he murdered somebody. The girls after sleeping with their masseuse, cheating on their husband are happily best friends again.

[01:04:57] The three Russian robbers got off scot-free. We didn't see any fallout from Tim's embezzlement. They kind of just worked it out even though he tried to poison his family and nearly killed his son. Let's see. Who else? Oh yes, Gary bribed his way out of murder. Chloe continues to find someone for him to sexually abuse. Belinda and Zion, their happy ending was being paid five million dollars to keep quiet about an innocent woman's murder.

[01:05:26] Not only was Guy took reward for the girl, he also got a promotion. But the most frustrating was in the poor writing field. There is no way that Frank and Rick get past the door unless we believe that no verification was made at all. And then once he attacked the husband, Rick parties all night and then assumes he could just go back to the hotel so the end of the series can happen. However, I still enjoyed it. It was beautifully shot.

[01:05:56] The locations were lush. The clothes, the costuming was wonderful. The acting was great. And most importantly, I loved listening to the podcast. So thanks very much. And if I may shamelessly pluck, if you haven't watched Andor, the best Star Wars series out there, there's still time to binge season one and come along for season two with us. We have a lot of fun and we'd love to have you on board. Thanks guys. Yeah, Jonathan's doing our Star Wars TV cast Andor season

[01:06:25] two with James and they're really good on there. I think that's more your type of show it sounds like than White Lotus, Jonathan. Although Rick's story is basically Luke Skywalker. Yeah, it's the same thing. Yeah. I would say I think after we saw the final episode, I don't know if Lachlan would have been against what he did, even if he was sober. He kind of seems like he was up for it no matter what.

[01:06:55] Saxon might not have let it happen. No, I don't think he would have. And I don't, I wouldn't call Chloe propositioning Saxon the next day blackmail at all. He said no and there were no consequences. Yeah. And they let it go. I'm very curious to see some of this footage though and see the locations you got to visit. That's super cool. Yeah. You know, I'm getting these, the scenery, this image of like what the monastery is like and I have a feeling there's a lot of like orange cones. This part's like

[01:07:25] crash. You know, a bunch of random chairs. Yeah. And I didn't include the whole call because a lot of it sounded like it was visual. But if you go to the, you know, podcast group, you can see, you can see all of it. Yeah. Alan Martinez says, thank you for being one of two podcasts about white Lotus that has an intelligent and thoughtful discussion. A few points that I haven't heard anyone mention.

[01:07:54] One, Pornchai is being paid significantly less than Belinda for doing similar work. Although Pornchai and Belinda obviously like each other, Pornchai suggesting that they go into business together a few days into their relationship is not that far removed from him proposing marriage. Good point. Being able to marry Belinda and become a US citizen would be a huge economic windfall for Pornchai. I think you see that Belinda is uncomfortable with how fast Pornchai

[01:08:24] is moving, how fast he introduced the idea of their relationship being economically transactional. Starting a business with someone that you're having sex with is a really terrible idea, always, not just in these circumstances. People are saying that Belinda is treating Pornchai the same way Tanya treated her, but Belinda never asked Tanya for money. It was Tanya's idea. I think that Belinda is actually avoiding the mistake Tanya made in marrying Greg. There is also the

[01:08:53] interesting twist that a black woman is presented as the privileged US colonial actor in this relationship. Two, Frank, in the final episode, was reminding me of Darren Crice in Versace. When Frank really got close up into Rick's face, I thought that he was going to kiss Rick or ask Rick to F him. Well, to be honest, if Rick had stayed, I'm pretty sure, you know, one of those two things would have happened. That's where it was going.

[01:09:23] Number three, the end of the final episode with the Ratlifts reminded me of the Wings of the Dove, in that in both works, the scene ends with the revelation of character, not in what happens next. In the case of the White Lotus, Tim, though realizing how much he cares about his family as real, alive humans, is willing to face losing most of what has been his social identity. This is something that Rick in the parallel storyline is in the end not able to do. This move on both

[01:09:53] the part of Henry James and Mike White is there to underline for the viewers or reader what the author really thinks is important, the transformation inside the characters. What happens next, plot-wise, doesn't really matter in the story that's actually being told. Mike White didn't just run out of time. The way that this is set up is a deliberate feature with a point. Thanks again for a great podcast. I could not agree with you more on that last point. Well said. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

[01:10:24] Yeah, I also think like the story of the White Lotus is when the people arrive on the boat and when they leave on the boat. Yeah. So if something is going to happen afterwards, we're not getting that story. So Amy Lee says, hello, podcast friends. I found your podcast while searching for more discussion on White Lotus season three. And I've since listened to your episodes on the entire series and enjoy your show. I wanted to share a couple of things I thought about the White Lotus finale. Well, thanks, Amy. I wish the three fancies would have

[01:10:53] had a real talk to me. The best way to describe it was they gave Facebook speech, Kate about her blooming garden, Jackie with her happy mood. It isn't real talk what real friends and women say. I would have related them related to them if they would have shown vulnerability and been open. I thought for sure that Lori was going to tell them about Alexa's $10,000 request and Jackie admit that Valentin have the same mom story type thing and share how she fears not being the young hot fun girl. She claimed they still were earlier in the

[01:11:22] week or Kate share a story about how she thinks she's boring or not memorable and average. Like she mentioned during their stay, it would have been relatable viewing women being vulnerable and honest, yet still loving and supporting of each other. It would have impacted the Lori speech more. I predicted Piper was going to second guess her Buddhist commitment after meeting Zion. It didn't come true, but she still fessed up. She preferred her higher society lifestyle that she'll probably lose when she gets home. I felt so bad for Chelsea getting caught

[01:11:51] in crossfire for a man she loved that wouldn't even give her a proper. I love you that she talks about when she was on the phone with him on the boat. I felt Belinda was not turned into Tanya after she got the money and left Thailand and Porn Chai. It wasn't like she'd committed to the business like Tanya did to her. She said it was still a dream, but didn't comment further or them draw up business plans. Overall, I thought the season was entertaining and funny. Some plot points seemed to drag drugged up Tim while some seemed to go nowhere, the robbery crew.

[01:12:21] We always as viewers want our predictions or plots to go our way. And to me, it wasn't as high quality of characters in place of quantity of characters, but I still thoroughly enjoyed the season and will always check in to wherever Mike White wants to go on the White Lotus. First time writer, long listening fan. Sorry if I'm rambling or boring. Thanks for writing in. Thanks, Amy. I did hear, I think, from Mike White that supposedly

[01:12:50] Piper and Zion were supposed to hook up in the original script. And that happens towards the end, but it got cut out. So that was a potential in there. My guess of how that could happen is that maybe Piper was so into just cutting out all of the pleasures of life. And then at the end, when she decided she didn't want to stay at the monastery, she decided to go out and have some fun. Yeah.

[01:13:20] Like turn around and go the other way. Mm-hmm. I mean, I felt the, I mean, you have to edit. You have to make this tight. And I'm kind of glad there wasn't too much other stuff. Right. I mean, maybe because I don't know how the other stuff would have been written, but I felt, I thought the series was very well done and there wasn't too, I mean, because the more stuff in it, the more you'd be like, what was that supposed to mean? Right. Just like right now, like, what were those Russians supposed to be?

[01:13:50] So, yeah. And to be honest, I don't want the story to go my way. I want the story to go in a way I didn't even imagine it was totally right. Yeah. Because I hate it when it goes my way. Then I just feel like, eh, it's unpredictable. Yeah. I mean, there's times when I'm glad it went the way that I thought it would, but, um, mostly no. Yeah. Mostly I, I, I love it when there's an auteur who is very talented and I can just be

[01:14:19] like, I'm going to go on whatever ride you've got for me. Yeah. Okay. Here's a call from Lisa Spear. Hi, Plot Castica. This is Lisa Spear from Virginia. And this is the first time I'm calling. I've left, um, comments before, but I just love podcast. I listened to, um, many of your podcasts for yellow jackets. Um, this is, this comment is for white Lotus.

[01:14:49] I listened to, I just started listening to handmaid's tale. I listened to the, um, from podcast. Um, love them all. Anyway, just a few notes on the, um, white Lotus as a whole and on the finale. I thought it was interesting. I've been thinking about the men and the women and the men are almost all ineffectual and see themselves through the eyes

[01:15:19] of others. Um, Zion is really the only exception for Rick. His mother sets him on a path of revenge for Timothy. He's focused on ensuring Victoria can continue living in the manner to which she is accustomed and his family's expectations of him make him consider death better than living with the consequences of his actions. Guy top wants to impress Mook so much. He'll kill for her. Saxon wants to seduce Chelsea and or Chloe.

[01:15:49] Hornchai wants Belinda to start a business with him. Gary wants Belinda to keep his secret, wants Chloe to satisfy his kink. Lachlan wants to stay at the monastery with Piper. The Russians pray on rich women to get money to stay in Thailand. And even Jim, I think was his name, Rick's father, only came back to the hotel on the last day because Sri Tala wanted a picture with Jacqueline and then he ended up getting shot because of it.

[01:16:18] So it seems like the women had the upper hand in almost all of the plot lines and and that and meanwhile they were patient like the monk said and the women were patient. The men all took precipitous action because of their anxiety and their desperation to to please or satisfy or

[01:16:46] somehow convince the women in their lives that they are worthy. So the three women friend group, I can totally relate. I'm about the same, maybe a little older actually than than those women. But I have friends still from high school that I'm friends with and our lives have all gone in very different ways. And it just shows how differently women handle

[01:17:14] conflict and love differences and hurt and forgiveness. So I think that the three of them are really sort of meant to show and relief how women handle those types of challenges compared to the men on the series. So those were just some observations there. Regarding Belinda and Porn Chai, this has been driving me crazy. I do not think that she was into him.

[01:17:44] It was a fun fling for a night, but when he suggested they start a business in in bed the next morning or whenever it was, she I thought she looked very uncomfortable and was not at all interested and was kind of like slow your roll. We didn't really see much of them spending time together after that. And I definitely think she pulled a Tanya when she left him. But I don't think she ever had any intention starting a business with him. And I don't think he's ever going to see her again.

[01:18:15] As far as Lachlan drinking the shake of death, that was very predictable. As soon as Timothy aborted his Jonestown event, I knew that he would end up that Lachlan would end up being the one drinking the poison. Even before that, I kind of figured that that would be Timothy's punishment since he was the one that he was trying to spare. Just like with Rick and Chelsea, the most innocent person is the one who ends up getting hurt. Finally, with Rick and Chelsea's death, I found it really interesting that he was floating face up and

[01:18:45] she was floating face down. It made me think of a yin and yang, but they weren't head to toe. But they just the face up and face down seemed significant. So I tried Googling to see if there was meaning for that. And one thing I found was a UGO card game. Something about a card card being down meaning banishment. But then I randomly found something

[01:19:13] else describing face up meaning to confront and face down to endure. And that really resonated. That says Rick and Chelsea to me. So those are my thoughts. Again, love the pod and just listen to your first podcast on Handmaid's Tale. Loving it so far, including all the commentary.

[01:19:43] So I look forward to sticking around for the whole season. All the best. Bye. Awesome. You know, when I read and listen to all of these different perspectives, and they just seem to, for some of them, they seem to come out of left field. And I just love it because I'm just like, yeah, I mean, I may not agree, but I can see where they're coming from. And I can just, you know, it's just everyone is so different. Everyone is approaching the show in such different ways and seeing such

[01:20:12] different things from their so different perspectives. And so there, you know, there's all these different truths about how they're seeing these humans, these characters. Yeah. And I think a show like this especially brings that out in people because there's all these different perspectives and motives and strategies that the characters take. And they're of different statuses and genders. And so it can really bring out things and different things in different people. It's pretty cool.

[01:20:39] I do like the mentioning how the three women friends, how they have issues and then they do sort of resolve it at the end. And the other friend group that friend group in quotes that meets up is Frank and Rick and that's a total fricking disaster. And they're just like, we should probably never see each other again because somebody's dead. I think they're going to hang out again. And what, one thing I really enjoyed

[01:21:08] about their story is how Rick was so just angry and unresponsive, you know, because he was fixated on all his resentment and everything. But as soon as you saw Frank, you saw a different side of him. And I believe that because I know when you go see your friends, it can make you feel relaxed and excited to see them again, you know, and it, and you really felt like, oh yeah, they've had this friendship for a long time. And I just thought that felt so real. It made me feel bad for Chelsea. Cause Hey, why don't you give some of that to her too?

[01:21:38] But, but still like, I believe that they'll, well, no, he's dead. Yeah. If we're still around, they might hang out. Yeah. Absolutely. Dina says lessons from Amor Fatih. One, don't be a people pleaser. Two, eat the donut. Life is short. Love it. Three, be like Kate and keep a pair of yellow trousers in your arsenal. They are cheery and make others happy.

[01:22:06] In all seriousness, this episode was so profound. My friend watched it before I did and was disappointed. She said too much was unresolved because her words were in my head when I got around to watching. I heard the monk's emphasis that nothing is ever resolved. I don't agree with my friend. Life itself may have no resolution, but Amor Fatih sure did. Mike White decisively concluded the storylines to my mind. And since the levels of this beautifully woven piece of television are too deep to explore in a short letter, I'll stick to The Ladies, a storyline that

[01:22:35] felt so shallow to me until now. The struggle of life, the longing for resolution, the point of it all is such a battle, a heavy weight to carry. You get so very alone. I think the three ladies were feeling that struggle when they sat down to dinner. Kate and Jacqueline struggled to express their feelings. I expected Lori to just drink. Mike White would leave us to sit in their discomfort. The scene would end and the ladies would still be the ladies unchanged and shallow. So when Lori bravely spoke about her

[01:23:04] sadness, her sincere happiness for her friends, her gratefulness that they had time together and that's all that matters. Yeah, I cried. It no longer mattered to her that her life was unresolved. In freeing herself, she gave space to her friends. They both chose to let down their guards and accept her vulnerability and in doing so, free themselves to be able to love. And freed this viewer, to be honest, for the moment, anyway. Lori's monologue was the most beautiful encapsulation of life's meaning.

[01:23:32] Right up there with Nell's confetti speech in The Haunting of Hill House and Mr. Emerson's advice to Lucy in A Room with a View, a book that is my religion. I feel that the ladies escaped the cycle of suffering and found the divine, as did Tim. His resolution was magnificent. It doesn't matter that his future is uncertain. He found a deeper meaning and it'll carry him through whatever comes next. That expression on his face as he looked out at the sea? Beautiful. So much hope. Like Lachlan, I think I saw God.

[01:24:03] Thanks again for the spectacular coverage. Thanks, Dina. I love that. Everything you said. The only thing that I think, though, is yeah, sometimes in my own life, I feel like I've found, what did she say? She felt like he found a deeper meaning and it would carry him through whatever comes. You're like, oh, I'm so clear now. It's going to be okay. And then you forget it and you fuck up again.

[01:24:31] Maybe it comes back to you. Not to be a giant wet blanket. I love your message. Thank you. I want to live by eat the donut. Life is short for the rest of my life. I think you need to get yellow pants, Randy. That too, yeah. It'll better. Randy's got yellow pants, right? It's Randy. Probably, yeah. It'll better hide the frosting from the donut too. Susie Altricker. Hello, Jenny, Randy, and Jason.

[01:25:00] This is Susie from Austria living in Berlin. I love that we have so many countries. I know. There's a lot of international listeners right now. Yeah. It's really cool. I'm a great fan of the show, The White Lotus, all three seasons. It is very well made, has amazing music and production design, great storylines and character development. It has really entertained me. And that is what I want from a show nowadays. I came across your podcast when I wanted more, and now it was a weekly ritual to

[01:25:29] first watch the show and then listen to you. Thank you for your podcast. I love passionate people. Oh, thank you. Here are some thoughts on the third season. I'm a big fan of the actress Amy Lou Wood. She does a great job with Chelsea. I loved watching her. If only she would fixate less on fixing and repairing men. Girl, live your own life with your spiritual wisdom. Yeah. The storyline around the three girlfriends is maybe my favorite this season, perhaps

[01:25:58] because it's the most relatable. The conversations, the gossiping, the trapped emotions, the looks, the unsaid, et cetera, between them is so on point and some heartwarming girlfriend energy after their emotional last dinner when we see them on the couch and can't hear them. I have a thought on Zion apart from how hot he is. Is it a coincidence that his name is Zion, same as the promised land or heaven of this Mormon cult in Utah?

[01:26:27] I remember a Netflix documentary of Mormons with the motto, keep sweet. That was horrible to watch, but I fell down that rabbit hole once. Because Zion kind of makes Belinda's dreams come true and elevates her into a state of heaven, she probably wouldn't have managed to reach on her own. Also, the theme of the season is religion and belief is the character's name on purpose. I just wondered. I haven't heard Mike White say anything about that or anything, so I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering that as well.

[01:26:57] It's a very interesting. It's a choice. Yeah. Yep. I don't know too much about religions and especially not about Mormons. Sometimes we in Europe anyways, just wonder what's possible in the United States or what strange things can happen in your country. Us too. About Fabian. I know the German actor and he is wonderful in the show Babylon Berlin. I was a bit sad that he didn't play a bigger role such as Armand and Valentina.

[01:27:26] Yeah. I feel like that was kind of a, almost the punchline for him is that all the other two have been so big and he was so small. And in a way that felt almost like intentionally hostile by the show. Let's have this guy that's going to annoy you to the point where you'll be happy when we totally ignore him. Yeah. On a general note, I love that the White Lotus does not only focus on the storylines of some messed up rich people, but shows a

[01:27:56] notable effort of giving us insights into the local working class and their dynamics. In a way, this reminds me of the Austrian show Die Pife Saga from the 90s. It's a satirical show about the very tourist region of Austria where I'm from, Tyrol, and how the rich tourists from Germany especially are very welcome. But the locals secretly despise them, especially the Germans. Talk bad about them behind their backs, but have

[01:28:25] to be super friendly to their faces because they bring the money. In Tyrol, most people love this show because they know how true it can be. Uh-huh. After COVID, the writer promised another episode about the ongoings in Ishkol, the very famous ski village where COVID was able to spread in Europe because the ski resort and hotel managers didn't want to lose money by quarantining everyone after an outbreak. So they illegally tipped all the tourists off and let them leave the village.

[01:28:55] And so the virus could spread. Unfortunately, no news about a new episode about this. I can't wait for another season of the White Lotus and would have loved to see it in the Alps. I guess we will see. Thank you for your work. Oh, Mike White. You need to look into this. Yeah. I mean, one thing that this brings up for me is I remember hearing what Mike White say something about. Yeah.

[01:29:23] People just expect each season to be about the same things, but that's not what he wants to do exactly. And so I do think season one was more about the staff versus the clientele. Yeah. And subsequent seasons have been, you know, so we might not see that dynamic as much anymore, but I think, you know, everything is still there to one degree or another, but maybe just not as prominently center front and center. Yeah, I did. I think that's one of the things I really liked in the first season.

[01:29:53] So I personally noted not being here for all of it, but I also know that story, so I don't need it necessarily. I appreciate him wanting to do different things with the concept. Yeah. And I do. And when I heard that maybe the season four would be about money, I was very excited because money has been a very important part of my childhood. In adulthood, like, and culture.

[01:30:21] So I just feel like it's just such a juicy subject. I'd love to see his take on it. Yeah. And I don't care where he does it, but it does seem like Europe would be a good place to explore it, but we'll see. Yeah. A snowy place. Yeah. All right. Here's another call from Jenny Ryan who called in again after she heard our podcast about the finale. Hello, White Lotus. It's Jenny from Saskatoon here. First thing I wanted to say is someone called and they were Jenny and she said, I wasn't the cool Jenny.

[01:30:51] And then you were all decided trying to figure out who the cool Jenny was. And then Jenny podcast. Jenny was like, it's not me. It's Jenny Ryan. And I was like, no, here's the thing. Any adult woman who chooses to be a Jenny is the coolest. Anyone who embraces Jenny past the age of 12 and who owns it is in my mind, the coolest of all the Jennifer's. So if you are an adult Jenny, we are equally cool. It is a tier of coolness. So hello, fellow cool Jennys.

[01:31:21] These are my thoughts. Anything to say about that? You mean besides the fact my name is legally Jenny? I know. Oh, no. Does that revoke some of the coolness? I don't know. I guess I'm just legally cool. You have no choice. It's against the law for you not to be. Here's the rest of her call. On Lori's monologue, which people seem to have really been positive about. And I didn't love it.

[01:31:49] And I wanted to give my thoughts, my oppositional thoughts. So as I predicted, sitting with the episode, listening to other people talk about it, I got to like it more. I saw more value in it. I appreciated more elements of it. But the further I got from the episode, the more I disliked that monologue. So that was the one sort of part of it that I really soured on. And my, okay, here's what I think. I myself am in the same age range as those women.

[01:32:17] I'm in the same sort of boat as Lori. So I don't have fame and fortune or a beautiful face. And I may have a cool name, but I am certainly not, you know, top of my Republican church community. So, you know, I sort of languish in the middle. And I think what's important for me, I think the reason that this resonated for me and the thing I want to point out is I think it's old friends are valuable. Yes. Old friends are great.

[01:32:47] They know you, but they know you in a certain way. They hold you back in a way. So Frank was elevated, moving on, was becoming a better version of himself. And then he met up with his old friend, Rick, and he slunk back into his old ways. He defaulted to what Rick expected of him, I think. And so I think that happens sometimes. So maybe with Lori and her friends, she was like, oh, yeah, the thing that I've endured is being the sidekick.

[01:33:15] The thing that I have is being the sidekick. Like, and I'm, I want to be, I just be like, accept my sidekick position. I'm just happy to be at the table. And when she said that, I felt really sad for her. Because I was like, no, you deserve to sit at a table where other people who are at the table would know, would know that sleeping with Valentin or talking about sleeping, their friends sleeping with Valentin would hurt you. You deserve friends who know you as more than just the sidekick

[01:33:45] Lori, who is kind of a loser. Those two women at the table listened to that and they didn't do anything to make Lori feel special. They're like, yes, that is your role. That is the role that you inhabit in our lives. And yes, there is some comfort to that. And there is some, you know, there is longevity in that. But I really wanted Lori to say, like, at the end of the speech, say like, you know, I've endured with you and we're pals and like, yes, we have this history. And yes, that is something I can count on.

[01:34:12] But when I get home, I'm going to go and find some, some other community that, that lets me be a, that lets me be something else that lifts me up. I'm not just lifting up the other people because I feel like Lori's like, um, I'll be the person who, you know, sees the two of you as spectacular things, but no one's really seeing her as spectacular. They're just seeing her as like, I don't know. I mean, it's complicated. I just want people to, I'm tired of women accepting that they don't have to have greatness.

[01:34:42] Um, and just like, it's fine. I'm just, whatever. I'm like, no, you deserve amazing people. And I will say, I've talked to other women about this and they felt the same way. They're like, yeah, that Lori deserves some better friends. To that end, I wish that there was some kind of a thing at the end of White Lotus. And I know Mike White would never do this because the whole idea of the show, it's like ephemeral. We get these people in one week of their lives, but I wish that at the end, like as the boat was going away, it came up on the screen like

[01:35:09] Lori went home and joined a, an improv comedy troupe or, um, you know, upon, you know, leaving the island, Belinda decided to buy a castle or something. Like I wish they had that little, like, you know, Saxon got a job selling cars. Anyway, I would like to know what happens to these people at the end of the episode. But anyway, those are my potentially controversial thoughts about Lori's monologue. I just, I want more for her. I want her, I want more. I don't want her to be at the table.

[01:35:37] I want her to, to, you know, push the table over, say, thanks friends. We've had a run. I'll see you later on Instagram and then go and, and, and get hers. Anyway. Okay. That's it. Justice for Lori. Okay. Bye. I like that actually. That is a good point. Yeah. I don't know if the point was for Lori to say, okay, you guys are more amazing than me for, um, in a lot of ways. But I'm just happy that I get to share the same space with you.

[01:36:06] But, uh, it does kind of sound a little bit like that. And yeah, we think a little differently. I mean, the way I was thinking about it is just because I know how much I enjoy being around my friends and I just like to be there. It doesn't, nothing else really matters. It's just being there in, in their presence is sublime a lot of the time because we just are totally relaxed, having a great time laughing. And I thought that's more of the place she was coming from.

[01:36:36] And also I know that she has, um, criticisms of the things that she was presenting about. Jackie has a beautiful face, but she's also vain. And, you know, um, that Kate has this perfect life, but it's also like buttoned up and not real or whatever. So I don't know if she was actually saying you guys are great and I'm trash, but I, thanks for letting me be here. But I don't know. Maybe there was some of that in there. Maybe. I mean, it felt like she was like, you know what?

[01:37:03] I have a lot of opinions about all of you, but what I'm going to say is you have a beautiful face and even beautiful life because we're trying to focus on the good right here. Exactly. Um, you know, I, I've read people say that that scene reminded them of, uh, seeing their older family members, even though they're like in their eighties and nineties get together. And then, um, whatever birth order they were suddenly comes out.

[01:37:32] Like here's this 89 year old who's suddenly like the baby of the family. And the 95 year old is talking down to the heaven. Right. And so, I mean, it's, I feel like, you know, the threesome is kind of like that and maybe it's something that's hard to escape. Um, but in a way that you're just like, ah, but this is my life and this is my youth. Yeah. Well that, like Mike White said in the interview I read earlier, he says, we have these touchstones in your lives and how those people can create suffering for you just by existing.

[01:38:06] So comforting. So, uh, we have one more message to read and one more call to play. The message is pretty long. So I broke it up into parts for each of us to read. It's from Mariah Brooks who says first the three blondes though. Honestly, Jacqueline seems more like a brunette to me. Still, I see pieces of myself and my friends in these women. I thought the portrayal of mid-aged wealthy white women was spot on. Lifelong friendships inevitably come with a deep seated resentments and putting these

[01:38:36] women in close quarters with alcohol and partying for a week. Of course, old wounds would surface. It's kind of what we were just saying. I love the resolution. It felt real. We all have those little blowups where people say things they regret, then take space, reflect and eventually come back together. You recognize that those friendships are invaluable even when they're messy. I think the show nailed the emotional rhythm. That's a nice phrase. I like that. As for Kate and Victoria, some viewers were frustrated that there wasn't more of a follow

[01:39:03] up to their encounter, even though they're all at the same luxury resort. You remember what she's talking about when Kate went up to Victoria and said, oh, we were at the same bachelor party. Even though they're all at the same. Was it a baby shower or something? Yeah. Not a bachelor party. I was like, oh no, that's a different story. That's why she didn't want to talk about it in front of her family. I don't know you. Oh God. Okay. Anyway, even though they're all at the same luxury resort, she clearly thinks she's above

[01:39:32] the three women. And that goes with what we've been reading about the superiority complex for sure. She's not interested in socializing. She's there with her family and that's that. A few theories I saw thought Victoria knew more than she let on, but I don't know. I don't think she wanted to know anything else. She's happy in her little lorazepam bubble. I don't think she particularly wants to know anything that is going to be too upsetting to her world. Yeah, I totally agree. Next Piper. I think she represents the young privileged white woman who's just finished college

[01:40:02] and is trying to figure out her place in the world. She's navigating the tension between the privilege she's grown up with and the reality that most people live much harder lives. Her fascination with Buddhism and the monk shows this romanticized desire for meeting. It's a classic young adult thing. I mean, I want meaning still, and I'm in my fifties, but the idea of living in a Thai monastery for a year feels beautiful and noble in theory, but the reality is probably far different. I was a little disappointed that she stayed the night though.

[01:40:31] It was a stroke of genius by Victoria. If she had gone there for the year, she might've been forced to deal with her discomfort and grow from it. That's true. Although she probably would have just left after a week. If your basic needs are met, you adapt and she might have had a real breakthrough. Well, she may anyway. She's going to be living in a monastery of sorts soon. Saxon seemed like he was starting to become a little more thoughtful and less of a jerk, which was nice.

[01:40:58] Lachlan is your basic high school senior trying to figure out his future college career identity. He and Piper are both at that big transitional moment in life. And for sensitive, thoughtful people, that can be overwhelming. As for Timothy, I'm just glad he didn't kill his family. We've all heard those horrific true crime stories of white collar men who annihilate their families to spare them shame. It's deeply disturbing. I do think Timothy experienced a bit of a spiritual awakening, which was compelling to watch.

[01:41:27] Honestly, rich people doing shady things usually land on their feet. Maybe lose some net worth, maybe do a little time, but they're still fine. If Victoria sensed something was off, I think it showed up in those tsunami dreams. I don't know how you spend a week with someone that mentally checked out and not start to wonder. She asked a couple of times, but I don't think she really wanted the truth. Chelsea, I just loved her. Amy Liu, the actress, did such a fantastic job with those expressive eyes. She could say so much without speaking.

[01:41:56] Her relationship with Rick was complicated. On one hand, girl, get out. He's mean, emotionally distant, and clearly damaged. On the other, she genuinely cares for him, and he seems to care for her in his own broken way. Chelsea believed they bonded spiritually, and that shaped her values. She didn't want to return to empty transactional relationships. Her comment to Saxon about him being soulless was brutal but honest, and it clearly stuck with him. Her death was heartbreaking.

[01:42:26] Trying to be Rick's yin to his yang got her killed. His childhood trauma and unresolved parental issues came to a head the moment his father insulted his mother. He completely unraveled. I thought it showed just how deep and painful that trauma can be. I don't blame Amrita for not stepping in. She's not a therapist. This wasn't her burden to carry. Ultimately, Rick's actions are on him. Some people found the poison subplot too obvious. The blender, the seeds.

[01:42:55] I thought Lachlan was going to die, honestly. I worried both he and Chelsea, the kind of pure, innocent, naive, would die, while the more cynical or immoral characters would walk away untouched. I'm glad that didn't happen. Still, how much poison was really left in that shake? How much does it take to kill someone? Clearly, it messed him up, but it left room for interpretation, which I kind of liked. I mean, I read that one seed can be enough to kill somebody, but it's dramatic license, so whatever the writer wants, basically.

[01:43:26] The Zion negotiation seed made me cringe. Zion came off like a baby-faced NBA student trying to play hardball with a seasoned pro. When he said $5 million, I thought it was a negotiation strategy, maybe hoping for more like $2.5 million. It probably was, yeah. Yeah. The Belinda storming out scene, I totally bought that she was just leaving, and I was surprised to see it was a scheme on her part. Me too, that one really got me. It was good, though. Yeah. But good for her.

[01:43:56] She's like... She's a player. Yeah, she's a part of it. Like miles ahead of her son. Yeah. But good for her. People said she did what Tanya did, and that money changes people. Maybe, but it's also totally human. She worked hard her whole life, and suddenly someone drops $5 million into her lap. It's a life-changing opportunity. Maybe she'll start a business, maybe she won't. She can finally ask herself the classic question, what would I do if money wasn't an issue? Mm-hmm.

[01:44:25] Yeah, very good point. I don't know if I would go to work or like, I'm sure there's a bunch of ventures I would like to make now, but if I didn't have to make money, I might change that course. I always think, would I still keep podcasting if I won the lottery? And I think I would, but yeah, I think so. It's so hard to say. It's like, I might be too busy riding roller coasters every day. That's right, yeah.

[01:44:53] And no, she doesn't owe Pornchai anything. They barely knew each other. It was nice of her son to encourage her to take the money and make the best of it. Tanya's gone. Greg is clearly awful. If Tanya had known the truth, I'm sure she'd rather Belinda get the money than her conniving husband. It's disappointing that Mook seems to like Guy talk, but not for who he really is. She wants him to be someone else, more ambitious, more manly.

[01:45:18] But he's a guy, but here's a guy who's kind, emotionally intelligent, reliable, and grounded. That's a jackpot in my opinion. I think she liked those things about him too. Yeah. But yeah. Guy talk will likely grapple with the fact that he shot Rick. That's going to haunt him. I don't know what kind of relationship comes out of that when one person essentially wants the other to change who they are at the core. I loved this season. When I watched the first two, I thought they were okay.

[01:45:47] I liked them better on rewatch, but this one really resonated. The music was great, the themes were rich, and yes, some of the TikTok theories were ridiculous, but that's part of the fun. We love to guess and analyze and overthink these things. This season gave us so much to reflect on. Privilege, trauma, friendship, forgiveness, spiritual longing, and what we owe ourselves in each other. It was messy and real and a little chaotic like life. Thanks for the pod.

[01:46:17] It's nice to listen to some thoughtful analysis of a show like the White Lotus. Ah, that was so good. Very well written, Mariah. Thank you. Sometimes I think like Guy Talk probably doesn't regret it. I mean, like you make these choices, right? And then you deal with the emotional fallout afterwards. Because to be honest, you think you're going to feel a certain way and something happens and sometimes you do feel that way. Sometimes you don't. You might have been like, oh, well, that wasn't so hard to shoot this guy.

[01:46:47] Maybe. I mean, he's stuck with it now because he's a bodyguard. Yeah. I mean, remember, this guy shot three other people just minutes before. I think being able to say like, hey, I stopped him from potentially killing more people probably softens. He might have thrown that dead woman at somebody and really hurt them badly. Right. So, you know, he's probably thinking like, okay, what I did was good and that's why where I am. Okay, 30 years later, divorced from Malk,

[01:47:15] lost half of all his stuff, bitter, you know, strayed from his children. He's going to be like, oh, I knew I made that wrong decision. Uh-uh, they should not have shot that guy. And Rick's ghost is there with him, taunting him. Yeah. And Chelsea's ghost would be right next to him. Yeah, they're both there. Because they're together. On each of his shoulders. It's just that point in time. We all have different visions of ourselves. Yeah. All right. We have one more call.

[01:47:46] It's Renee from North Carolina. Hey there. North Carolina Renee. Unfortunately, Randy, I cannot take you up on your challenge. You know that I cannot say R-O-R-Y. Bye. And Jason, as far as your request, I believe that Victoria's accent is a little bit more South Carolina than it is North Carolina. But in my best attempt, I'll say, Piper, no! Also, have you noticed that the three kids don't have accents?

[01:48:17] Yeah, that's a good point. And I loved when Frank was running down. I think Pipers may have come out a little bit at some point. But just, yeah, mostly not, yeah. The hallway trying to stop. Rick from Living. And after his little tumbles and somersaults, he was like, Hey! And it made me laugh so hard. It sounded like a cross between Animal from Muppet Babies and Bobcat Goatwood. Also, I love the idea of Frank chanting and meditating

[01:48:46] with the bloodstream just full of narcotics. Question. Do you think Rick joined the party? I know they cut to the scene of him waking up in the morning. He was fully clothed, sitting in a chair. But do you think he ever did anything or he just watched? I don't think so because it feels like they would have shown that and only showed him when he was just off to the side. Yeah. He never seemed really that in it. Yeah. I think he just watched. He seemed content. Yeah.

[01:49:15] Professionally, my title is I am an anti-money laundering specialist at a major securities firm. Wow. But going forward, because that is a mouthful and always gets lots of questions, when someone asks me what I do for a living, I'm just going to say this and that. And Randy asked if the bank would have questions about the deposit. Let me tell you, Randy, there was an investigation launched before Belinda even saw that wire transfer.

[01:49:44] There's going to be questions and paperwork that she's going to have to fill out. And did you see on her transaction history, there was a charge for luggage rentals? I didn't even know you could rent luggage. Is that a real thing? Did you guys know about this? No. Is that real? I think you can rent anything. I was waiting for Saxon to say, I'll be back at any point. As a matter of fact, Piper and Lachlan came back from the monk temple

[01:50:13] and he was like, they're back. I don't know. I was just hoping for the I'll be back. Contractually, the family's obligated. I'm not meaning it to be disrespectful in any type of way, but how out of those three ladies is Kate not the face? In what world is Leslie Bibb not the face of those three ladies? Yeah. Do you think the guy flirting with Piper at yoga was an LBH?

[01:50:43] Yeah. Okay. So here's my wish for you guys. I hope that someone from HBO or on the street team recognizes your podcast. I hope that your podcast becomes the official podcast. And I hope that you guys get some type of, I don't know, seen by the pool, lounging. Maybe like they'll just give us an Easter egg. And we'll just hear Judy laughing or something. I don't know. Maybe they'll cut to her and she's wearing the snake necklace. But I think you guys are phenomenal.

[01:51:13] I think you have the best podcast concerning the White Lotus. Thank you. It should be recognized. My wish for the show is that there are more black or people of color guests. Yes. I mean, we do travel. Hell, apparently we rent luggage. I didn't even know that was a thing, but it will be nice to see more representation. Yes. But I'm signing off for now. I thank you guys again. Love, love, love your podcast. And in the words of every North Carolinian I know,

[01:51:42] bless your heart. Oh, Renee, that was a great. Yeah. Grand finale message for the season. Thanks for staying at the White Lotus with us, Renee. And yes, we have rented luggage, Jason. Oh, uh, the, the big long thing to put skis in. Oh yeah. Big long ski bag, which I didn't realize until I saw it on the, on the rental board. I was like,

[01:52:11] you can rent luggage. Let me rent that. Well, thanks for all the thoughtful messages. You guys, that was, that was great. This show really brings it out. So we appreciate it. Uh, we would be done, except we've been promising that we're going to reveal our Enneagram type. So in episode two, Chelsea told her spa therapist that she's an Enneagram type. Enneagram nine, which is a, a peacemaker. The Enneagram is this personality typing thing.

[01:52:39] There's nine types and you can take a test to see which one you are. We all took a quick Enneagram test. We took the same one. Uh, Jenny, I think you're a seven. Randy, I'd guess you're a two or a nine. Interesting. Okay. I didn't do any guesses, but I am a nine. No, there you go. So good guess. Uh, but you thought I was a what? Seven. A seven. No, I'm one. Oh,

[01:53:10] perfectionist. Right. Okay. Yeah. I was a little skeptical. I feel like all of these tend to have very like, uh, open ended answers that you could like really plug anybody into, but this thing, it got me. Oh, really? Spot on. So what did it say? I just, you know, kind of briefly about nine. So type nines are accepting, trusting,

[01:53:40] and stable. They're usually creative, optimistic, and supportive, but can also be too willing to go along with others just to keep the peace. They want everything to go smoothly and be without conflict, but they can also tend to be complacent, simplifying problems and minimizing anything upsetting. They typically have problems with inertia and stubbornness at their best, indomitable and all embracing. They are able to bring people together and heal conflicts.

[01:54:08] The wanting to be without conflict and like just wanting everybody to be happy and having a good time. It's fully, it got me right in the bullseye. Yeah. I mean, that's why I picked nine for you. Jenny, did you, do you have a description of a one? Yeah. So it says the perfectionist is an inspired idealist who, actively seeks ways to make the world a better place. They have an innate,

[01:54:39] intense sense of what's right and wrong and feel it's imperative to act in accordance with their high moral standards. You hear that, Jason? No shoes in the house. Anyways, type one usually grows up with parents who encourage them to take on too much responsibility for their age. Because they were encouraged to act like adults when they were still kids, they are used to imposing high standards on themselves. Making mistakes is another big topic when it comes to one's characters. Since they were only given attention when they performed perfectly as kids,

[01:55:07] they learned that if they wanted to be loved and accepted, they must be flawless. For that same reason, they are hyper attuned to noticing the mistakes and wrongdoings around them. I don't see any truth in that. That's just so awful. The good sides of the ethnogram, one's perfectionist nature, are that they are careful, dedicated, have an eye for detail, and give their best every time, no matter how big or small the task is. They will always protect what's good and morally correct,

[01:55:37] and don't mind assuming, hmm, the role of the moral guardian in their surroundings. I don't know. Sometimes I get tired of that. But anyways. Yeah. So what were you, Jason? So the thing is, I have taken these tests several times and gotten different results. I got a nine. I got a three, which is like a narcissist who likes to perform for people. I got an eight, who's like a natural leader type, which I liked, you know, this time I got a four.

[01:56:06] I've never gotten a four before. The individualist, it says type fours are deeply introspective, emotionally rich, and driven by a desire for authenticity. They seek meaning in life and often feel set apart from others, believing they're uniquely different, sometimes in a beautiful way, other times in a painful way. Creativity and self-expression are essential to them, whether through art, writing, music, or personal style. They feel emotions intensely and are unafraid to explore the full spectrum of human experience from profound joy to deep sorrow.

[01:56:36] At their best, fours are self-aware, emotionally resilient, and capable of channeling their depth into creative and inspiring work. However, they can also struggle with envy, feeling that others possess something they lack, whether it's confidence, ease, or a sense of belonging. This can lead to bouts of melancholy, self-doubt, and an urge to withdraw. Their greatest fear is that they're fundamentally flawed or that something essential is missing within them. Yet their longing for depth and authenticity makes them some of the most emotionally insightful and artistically gifted people.

[01:57:04] Growth for a four comes from learning to appreciate the present, recognizing their own worth without comparison, and taking action on their creative instincts instead of getting lost in their inner world. When they find balance, they become deeply impactful, showing others the beauty of embracing emotions and individuality. I don't know. That's the worst match. That's what it says. Indie Graham, type one, worst match. Type four. Oh no. What does that mean? Yeah.

[01:57:35] You want me to change? Okay, Mook. What type would you like me to become? Which one is the killer? Apparently you're supposed to be type two, the helper. Oh yeah, that's what you want me to be. I feel you pushing me into the type two box every day. The helper, I'm reading this, the helper really likes dishes, vacuuming, and massaging feet. Wow. Interesting.

[01:58:03] Taking kids to Kung Fu, and baking dinner. That was pretty cool. All right. That is our show. Thanks again so much for listening, everybody. Next up, probably the White Lotus season four, episode one. But,

[01:58:32] The Last of Us starts, actually, by the time you hear this, the first episode may already be out. We're planning to put episodes out by Tuesday morning, just like we did with the White Lotus. go to podcast2go.com, look for our podcast, The Cast of Us, which is about The Last of Us, and check it out if you're into that show. We'd love to have you guys as listeners. Also, we're doing the Handmaid's Tale podcast. That comes out on Hulu every Wednesday, and our podcast comes out the, I mean Tuesday, and our podcast comes out the same day.

[01:59:01] If you've been enjoying these dulcet tones, check out Welcome to the Apocalypse, which stars me and Jenny, who calls in and guested with us. It's an improvised podcast. There's no prerequisites. You don't have to watch anything prior to listening. You can just hop in and listen. You have to like fun. Yeah, that's the one thing. Fun and laughing. You have to be into those. But yeah,

[01:59:28] it's an improvised story about three people in the apocalypse. So give it a listen. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. And remember, we're glad you have a beautiful face, and we're glad you have a beautiful life, and we're just happy to be at the table. That does sound kind of pathetic now that I think about it. Yeah, Randy, get that table over.

[02:00:23] Piper, nay. Wir sind Teresa und Nemo. Und deshalb sind wir zu Shopify gewechselt. Die Plattform, die wir vor Shopify verwendet haben, hat regelmäßig Updates gebraucht, die teilweise dazu geführt haben, dass der Shop nicht funktioniert hat. Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur. Und die Illustrationen auf den Boards kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber, was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht. Starte deinen Testen heute für 1 Euro pro Monat auf shopify.de slash radio. Bis zum nächsten Mal. Thank you.