83: “Darkest Hour/Wake Thy Power” (Agatha All Along S1E5)

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[00:00:59] Ah!

[00:01:02] We have to Ouija.

[00:01:04] It's not a verb.

[00:01:11] Come on, we have to do this.

[00:01:21] Spanish, Chinese...

[00:01:22] Ah, English.

[00:01:25] Okay, um, number one.

[00:01:28] Do not use the Ouija board alone.

[00:01:29] Number two.

[00:01:31] Do not speak over each other.

[00:01:32] That is not written in there. Show me that.

[00:01:34] Three.

[00:01:35] Do not taunt the spirits.

[00:01:40] What?

[00:01:41] I repeat, do not taunt the spirits.

[00:01:45] Four.

[00:01:46] Do not ask about death.

[00:01:48] Five.

[00:01:48] Always end your session with goodbye.

[00:01:51] Six.

[00:01:51] Do not under any circumstances remove your hand from the planchette.

[00:01:56] If you do so, a spirit will be released.

[00:02:03] What does that say on the back there?

[00:02:05] Four ages three and up.

[00:02:07] Hey everybody.

[00:02:39] Welcome to the Marvel TV cast from Podcastica.

[00:02:43] I'm Penny.

[00:02:44] And I'm Jim.

[00:02:46] And I'm Cara.

[00:02:47] Today we'll be talking about Agatha all along season one, episode five, darkest hour, wake thy power.

[00:02:55] And welcome Cara to the podcast.

[00:02:58] Cara is one of my co-hosts, is my main co-host over on Still Slaying, where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[00:03:06] And, uh, we took a hiatus from that to do Agatha.

[00:03:09] So I'm so excited she can guest with us today.

[00:03:12] Yay.

[00:03:13] Yay.

[00:03:14] How have you been enjoying Agatha so far?

[00:03:18] I'm obsessed with it.

[00:03:20] And I never thought I would say that.

[00:03:23] I think both of you know, I'm not really a Marvel fan at all.

[00:03:27] I, I've seen a couple movies here and there, but Penny, you and Greg, another Zed head, gave me at least a little bit of a summary enough to get me started watching the episodes.

[00:03:41] I watched the first two when I was basically homesick.

[00:03:46] And then I watched WandaVision all the way through twice in a row.

[00:03:51] And then I watched Multiverse of Madness.

[00:03:53] And then I started looking at the comics.

[00:03:56] And now I'm fully down the rabbit hole and I can't stop.

[00:04:00] So it's been, it's been fun.

[00:04:02] That's my new hyper fixation.

[00:04:04] It was perfect timing for when you had COVID recently.

[00:04:08] Oh yeah.

[00:04:09] So you needed something to obsess about.

[00:04:11] Right after coming back from Salem too.

[00:04:15] So I was in a witchy mood already.

[00:04:18] And honestly, anything with Catherine Han or Aubrey Plaza, I'm sold and they just keep on delivering in this show.

[00:04:30] I can't stop.

[00:04:31] Isn't it crazy how every show is like a page folded in half.

[00:04:40] Like, Ooh, we get all this information and then they fold it in half and like, what does this all mean?

[00:04:45] And now we have new information and it's still good and it's still fulfilling.

[00:04:49] And then they give us a short 30 minute episode like this one, except fill it with 50 times as much information.

[00:04:55] And then we have a little chock full of stuff.

[00:04:57] Like I, the pacing of it has been brilliant so far.

[00:05:02] And I was screeching.

[00:05:04] I think I texted you guys when I had finished the fourth episode and I don't think either of you had watched it yet.

[00:05:09] And I was dying because I couldn't talk to anybody about it.

[00:05:13] But the chemistry between Aubrey Plaza and Catherine Han as Rio and Agatha, I was losing my mind.

[00:05:22] I was just like, this is brilliant.

[00:05:24] I can't believe this is happening.

[00:05:26] Yeah.

[00:05:26] It's so good.

[00:05:27] I mean, I love it so much.

[00:05:29] The, the Marvel cinematic universe would really pat itself on the back when there was a character in Endgame who briefly mentions that he went on a date with another man.

[00:05:40] And they were like, it's the MCU's first gay character.

[00:05:44] And like in such a short amount of time, we've gotten to this, this show dripping in queer energy.

[00:05:54] And I, I love it.

[00:05:57] I love it.

[00:05:58] I love it.

[00:05:58] I'm so happy.

[00:06:00] Well, we taught, we talked to in the last episode, just about how I don't know that there's ever been a show in a Disney format.

[00:06:09] Yeah.

[00:06:11] That has this much LGBTQ plus just every episode is just drip, like you said, dripping in it.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:19] And it has definitively gone under the radar or the show's so good.

[00:06:26] It's just been accepted.

[00:06:28] Whereas other shows have been vilified for diversity, let alone LGBTQ plus diversity.

[00:06:35] Um, so it's kind of amazing that we have a show like this where every character has like these multitude of traits that are not, they're not secret.

[00:06:48] They're not.

[00:06:48] That's the one thing that's ironic about the show.

[00:06:50] Everything's like a, like a puzzle box, except for who these characters are on the outside.

[00:06:57] So I just, it's, um, you know, I know people can hear our smiles when Penny and I are talking about the show, but that's part of it is that we have a show that's embraced just human beings being human beings in every form, fashion.

[00:07:12] And even, you know, there's, uh, Lilia and Alice have that little exchange.

[00:07:17] I think in episode three, after Rio shows up where they joke about like wanting to get her phone number.

[00:07:24] It's, um, it's Alice and Jen.

[00:07:26] Yeah.

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:27] And Jen.

[00:07:28] Yes.

[00:07:28] And I was just like, yeah, that's fair, but they explore it.

[00:07:32] And I think part of it too, like you were saying, Jim is whether or not it's just so good that people are accepting it or if it's passing under the radar, something about witches in general has always been about, you know, minorities outcasts in general.

[00:07:48] So maybe we, you know, we kind of subconsciously accepted a little bit more.

[00:07:54] We as, you know, society when you're already expecting.

[00:07:58] I think also Agatha is not, has never been a huge Marvel comics character.

[00:08:05] And so there just aren't as many preexisting fans with their own ideas to gatekeep who and what she can be.

[00:08:17] Makes sense.

[00:08:17] And so there's all this freedom because she's like this side character and her realization in this TV show is going to eclipse anything that ever happened in the comics.

[00:08:32] Yeah.

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:34] Well, I, I have some for, for maybe the first time I have some thoughts about where we're heading.

[00:08:39] Oh, interesting.

[00:08:40] So I, yeah, I just, I, it's funny because I would say Agatha, I don't know how you'd level this, like with a number, like where, what tier she would be as far as Marvel characters, but maybe, you know, third or fourth tier if that, you know, it's.

[00:08:59] And then all the, the ancillary characters that are connected to that, to her, or maybe further down the list with the possible exception of.

[00:09:07] Rio, who we just know as Rio right now, although I have a feeling we're going to be diving a little more into previous conversation about who she may be.

[00:09:17] So I think that, you know, to your point, Penny, I agree.

[00:09:22] I think these characters, nobody has like a vested sort of, they're not this, which, you know, I mean, the connectivity to Wanda though, perhaps by the end of the series could become interesting, especially when we talk about the team.

[00:09:40] I think that the, the, the, the possibility of transferring the energy from the show to other things going forward is certainly high.

[00:09:51] And will be very interesting.

[00:09:55] So Kara, you're our guest.

[00:09:57] Where would you like to start?

[00:10:00] Well, I tried to consolidate this into a singular point, but it kind of has to do with what, what I think we were experiencing in this episode.

[00:10:12] And I started thinking about it, listening to one of the points you made in a previous episode, Penny, about, actually, I think it was this last one.

[00:10:23] Verse three of the song, you mentioned how in the Lorna Wu version, when they're talking about, you know, it, this is a protection song in this version, how it almost seemed like the third verse was prophetic or a bit of a premonition.

[00:10:41] And looking back at the lyrics of the initial chant version, when they're opening, you know, the door to go down the road, I think the same can be said about verse three in that version too.

[00:10:55] And looking at verse three, it kind of made me come up with two different things I think could be happening in this episode.

[00:11:02] So the third verse of the chant says, you know, the road is wild and wicked winding through the wood, where all that's wrong is right.

[00:11:10] And all that's bad is good through many miles of tricks and trials will wander high and low.

[00:11:16] Tame your fears.

[00:11:18] The door appears.

[00:11:18] The time has come to go.

[00:11:19] So what stuck out to me the most was the through many miles of tricks and trials and the wandering high and low, because this episode, for a number of reasons, the trial just felt a little bit off, a little bit different.

[00:11:36] One thing when I went down the WandaVision rabbit hole that seemed to stick out to me was the aspect ratio that they used in that show to show the differential between, you know, being in Wanda's little fantasy spell land versus being out in the quote unquote real world.

[00:11:57] And in this show in particular, they've done the same thing so far with the trials except for this one.

[00:12:05] So I was like, okay, that has to be intentional if they've used this before.

[00:12:09] So are we getting a trick per se instead of a trial?

[00:12:14] And at the beginning of the episode, one possibility, Lilia wakes up and says they're coming.

[00:12:22] So is it possible that this entire episode was a vision of hers?

[00:12:29] We know she's been flashing and kind of seeing different premonitions throughout the first few episodes.

[00:12:35] So that was one thing.

[00:12:37] And it did stick out that they go up instead of down this time, including on the brooms to escape the seven.

[00:12:45] At the end of the quote unquote trial, they go up a ladder.

[00:12:49] And the last two trials, you know, they've gone down the slide through the oven door or they've gone down stairs or a path through the piano.

[00:12:58] So that stood out a little bit.

[00:13:01] And the past two trials on the actual doors, they've had the moon phases on them, where in this one, there's a stained glass window next to the door that has, you know, the moon phases.

[00:13:14] And it's all slightly off.

[00:13:16] So I couldn't tell if I was, you know, doing my usual overthinking or if there was something intentionally there.

[00:13:24] And then now with something like the Wiccan reveal, I know we'll talk about this later.

[00:13:28] So just throwing out the other possibility is that it could are they under a spell of his from the first episode?

[00:13:38] That's been happening this whole time because we hear him chanting in Latin in that first episode.

[00:13:44] And to be fair, I know very limited things about Marvel characters.

[00:13:50] From what I went and looked at with Wiccan, it seemed like he needed to hear himself casting spells in order for them to take effect.

[00:13:59] So I was like, okay, so maybe, you know, they're under his spell because we also hear Lilia say, I didn't like this the first time as they're experiencing the trial.

[00:14:12] And I was just like, okay, everything else she said has become relevant in the future.

[00:14:18] But yeah, I don't know if that was one coherent point.

[00:14:20] That was basically just me trying to...

[00:14:24] I get where you're going.

[00:14:27] And you noticed some things that I didn't notice.

[00:14:29] I hadn't picked up on the aspect ratio.

[00:14:31] I did notice that the door phase, the moon phase wasn't on the door.

[00:14:37] And I thought it was interesting that the fact that it was Agatha's trial was determined by Rio, right?

[00:14:50] And she's like, oh, it's Agatha's because of the blood moon.

[00:14:53] And I don't know, it just seemed a little far-fetched.

[00:14:56] But why?

[00:14:58] It never felt right to me through the whole episode.

[00:15:01] I still don't think it was Agatha's.

[00:15:03] Well, when I first started watching the episode and I saw it was 30 minutes, I immediately think texted Penny and said, well, this clearly isn't going to be Agatha's.

[00:15:13] Yeah, because hers has got to be longer.

[00:15:16] And then it was Agatha's.

[00:15:18] And then the setting didn't make sense because it was in an 80s cabin and she was born in the 1600s.

[00:15:26] None of that seemed to fit to me.

[00:15:28] Yeah.

[00:15:29] And I'm still trying to figure all of that out.

[00:15:32] Like, I can't quite make sense of the whys of what these trials are.

[00:15:39] I think the first two pretty much made sense to me.

[00:15:42] This one didn't make any sense at all to me because her mom was in this episode, but her mom wouldn't have been in a 1980s house with her.

[00:15:52] Right.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:53] So that the setting and the trial, the only connection was that Ouija boards were big in the 80s, but they could have.

[00:16:01] They didn't need that.

[00:16:03] And, you know, to have a ghost, there's lots of ways to connect to a ghost.

[00:16:09] But I also was like, would teen have picked the 80s?

[00:16:13] Like, if he is in control, he wasn't even born in the 80s.

[00:16:18] No, but I think, like, don't we all have, if it's him, we have, like, especially, you know, I think of myself in the 70s growing up.

[00:16:28] And I had this picture of what the 50s looked like.

[00:16:32] And I think if I would have made a cabin in the 50s, it would have kind of looked like maybe the teen's cabin of the 80s, if that makes sense.

[00:16:41] Right.

[00:16:42] Like, maybe he's seen a lot of 80s horror movies, which is what this was.

[00:16:46] There's a G-Shock watch.

[00:16:47] Yes!

[00:16:48] And there's some, there's the Ouija board, right?

[00:16:51] Yeah.

[00:16:52] There's, like, the clothing.

[00:16:53] Oh, my God, so much crocheted Afghans everywhere.

[00:16:55] I know.

[00:16:56] Yes, everywhere.

[00:16:57] Well, and I think about his, you know, assuming that as Wiccan and Billy, after having rewatched WandaVision, the one episode that stands out the most when they're the oldest, and, you know, when they're experiencing Halloween with their mom and their dad and their uncle, who's really not their uncle, you know, that whole episode, he's wearing an outfit that looks kind of similar with the little red headband and the blue.

[00:17:26] To his character then.

[00:17:27] And if that's what he associates with his childhood, or when he thinks back on the last time with his mom and his family, I could see him focusing on the 80s and 90s life that were kind of covered in that episode.

[00:17:42] That version of Billy did go through the 80s and the 90s via sitcom life.

[00:17:48] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:49] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:49] And when I think about nostalgia, I think of, like, 80s and 90s movies, like, that felt like me.

[00:17:57] I was like, okay, so if it was going to be my era, like, especially going back to my childhood or teen years, it would, that's what it would look like.

[00:18:04] And I could see Billy kind of having that same association with his mom and his family.

[00:18:13] And the whole Eastview and Westview pennants that were above the door.

[00:18:19] And we know that he said in, what, the first or second episode, I think it may have been the second episode, that he grew up in Eastview.

[00:18:26] And that wasn't blocked out by the sigil.

[00:18:29] So I was like, okay, are they trying to flag this as teen?

[00:18:34] Yeah.

[00:18:34] Or what?

[00:18:37] It's hard to call him anything other than teen.

[00:18:40] Yeah, we're going to have to get used to calling him either Wiccan or Billy.

[00:18:44] Well, so I do want to just say this.

[00:18:47] I mean, I think we all think the same thing.

[00:18:49] It's Billy, Wiccan, however you want to go about it.

[00:18:52] Yeah.

[00:18:52] But I do just want to throw it out there that we don't know that yet.

[00:18:56] Right.

[00:18:57] In the show, they have not confirmed it.

[00:18:59] That's true.

[00:19:00] But I mean, can we talk about why we think?

[00:19:04] I mean, obviously, we have the blue power.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Which connects to not only to his power in WandaVision, but it connects to the coven that Agatha was part of, too.

[00:19:21] Which I still don't really get, but there has to be a connection there somehow.

[00:19:25] Yeah.

[00:19:25] And the road is very blue.

[00:19:27] Except for when we were in Alice's trial, there's a lot of blue around.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:34] Yeah.

[00:19:34] Well, and then he controls the witches in this episode the same way that Wanda controls Tony Stark in, I think it was Age of Ultron, if I remember correctly.

[00:19:55] Instead of red around the eyes, you see the blue.

[00:19:59] You see the blue around the eyes.

[00:20:00] So there's definitely.

[00:20:02] Agatha's saying.

[00:20:03] Yeah.

[00:20:04] She's just like his mom.

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:07] And there's, and the crown that appears at the end or a diadem.

[00:20:12] Oh, yeah.

[00:20:13] Technically, it's a diadem.

[00:20:15] You know, it magically grows on him just like Wanda's did at the end of WandaVision when she sort of embraced that she's the Scarlet Witch.

[00:20:24] So there are a lot of clues that lean toward him being Wiccan or Billy.

[00:20:32] I don't know.

[00:20:32] And I don't know.

[00:20:33] Maybe you guys can help me out with this because I had just watched WandaVision before I started the series.

[00:20:39] And when they show.

[00:20:43] Teens face with the crown.

[00:20:48] I'm pretty sure that the music you hear under the scary music sounds like the end credit music.

[00:20:55] Yes, it's it's it's I don't know if it's a different level or a different but it sounded there seem and this could just be me trying to plunk something.

[00:21:04] But the fact that Kara is shaking her head yes makes me think that I'm not because I was like I watched them both back and forth.

[00:21:12] Yeah, and it doesn't seem like it's on the same pitch, but it sounds like it's doing the same things.

[00:21:18] But this could just be maybe just it sounds like it's in a slightly different key to me.

[00:21:24] Like a slightly more evil key.

[00:21:26] Yeah, because I mean because they played him.

[00:21:29] So I've been my big my big thing over the past two episodes is that.

[00:21:35] Teen was going to be the big bad and they sort of play him like the big bad, but I so I have everything I want in the palm of my hands to say look I was right and I'm about to change that take here in a few minutes, but I have a new take.

[00:21:49] But anyways, yeah, I think I agree with you.

[00:21:51] I have a I don't know if you guys talked about this we get when we get to other points.

[00:21:56] Yeah, I'm curious what you'll think after thinking he was the big bad for the last well see so I haven't now that he was the big bad bad all along.

[00:22:08] I I thought there was a very good chance he was Billy, but I also thought that that didn't mean he was bad.

[00:22:16] It just I'm not sure that there is a big bad like I was thinking about this like who's the villain of the show.

[00:22:23] Well, who's the hero of the show like they're kind of all villains, right?

[00:22:28] Yeah, all he is is another powerful magic user on the show like well, is he that different from Agatha or Rio?

[00:22:40] I don't think so. Yes, he hasn't killed anybody yet.

[00:22:43] Well, I think he may have.

[00:22:47] I think he could have killed Mrs.

[00:22:49] Hart. Maybe I think Agatha was kind of piecing that together.

[00:22:54] I think there are enough little breadcrumbs that that could be the case.

[00:22:58] I think that's what Agatha was talking about in this episode at the end when he said, you know, he got all upset and gave his spiel about so that's what it means to be a witch killing people to serve your own agenda.

[00:23:12] No, not for me.

[00:23:13] And Agatha kind of tilts her head and smirks and she gets up real close to him and whispers, you know, are you sure?

[00:23:20] Yeah, I think at least I think she thinks he killed Mrs.

[00:23:25] Hart slash Sharon.

[00:23:26] And that's why she was saying, I didn't know you had it in you and then winked at her.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:33] And I can see her making that point of being like, you're just like your mother because I don't necessarily see Wanda entirely as an outright villain or evil in WandaVision.

[00:23:47] She's hurting.

[00:23:48] It's this expression of deep grief.

[00:23:51] She's doing everything she can to try to keep what she loves close to her.

[00:23:56] And as a consequence of that is hurting other people and harming other people along the way.

[00:24:02] And I think that could be exactly what Billy is doing in this situation.

[00:24:08] And that might be what Agatha is calling out in him.

[00:24:12] And I just, I don't know.

[00:24:14] There's all these thoughts that are floating and not enough to put them together at this point.

[00:24:22] Thank you.

[00:24:52] For the most part of your business, you can't do it.

[00:25:20] I think the mystery though is who's controlling this whole thing.

[00:25:31] And I don't think it's Billy at all.

[00:25:36] I don't think that they would reveal him in episode five if he's the one that we're going to see at the end who's controlled the whole thing.

[00:25:42] Now, yeah, I'll save this for later down the road or it'll just come out.

[00:25:49] But I do think someone else is controlling it.

[00:25:52] I agree with you, by the way, about one.

[00:25:53] I think the wonderful thing about Scarlet Witch is she's been one of the biggest heroes in the Marvel Universe.

[00:26:01] And she's been one of the biggest villains in the Marvel Universe.

[00:26:04] And I think that this show encapsulates that.

[00:26:10] I think her character has encapsulated that.

[00:26:12] Like she's been such a wonderful hero and a wonderful villain.

[00:26:16] I mean, she was basically introduced as sort of a villain, but kind of a villain of circumstance.

[00:26:21] So I just – yeah, it's so fun watching them standing apart from each other as the camera panned from one to the other.

[00:26:32] But see, that's where I thought – that's where it shifted for me.

[00:26:34] And we'll come back to that.

[00:26:35] But I don't want to move ahead because there's three of us.

[00:26:39] I know Penny has a lot to add to this, so I'm going to back out for a second.

[00:26:42] I just – yeah, there –

[00:26:43] Penny, I'm curious what you have to say after this episode, though, because you guys were both talking about like where is Lilia getting these visions from?

[00:26:55] Where are these premonitions coming from?

[00:26:58] And this episode in particular, as soon as she said, I didn't like this the first time, I was just like, what the hell is happening?

[00:27:04] Yeah.

[00:27:05] How is this –

[00:27:05] Oh, I have a theory on that.

[00:27:08] But I don't – I spent a lot of time thinking about it.

[00:27:11] I was like, who is she channeling when she said that?

[00:27:13] And is she always channeling the same person?

[00:27:15] Because I really do think at one point she was channeling Alice's mother in episode four.

[00:27:21] So – and I think sometimes the messages that she gets are a little random.

[00:27:27] Like there was a point in episode four where she goes, am I kooky or am I wispy?

[00:27:32] Which one is it?

[00:27:32] And I'm like, that's not from the big like behind the scenes puppet master.

[00:27:38] That's maybe from some other dead person or, you know, it's from somewhere else.

[00:27:43] Yeah.

[00:27:44] Although she says in this episode that she doesn't commune with dead people and that that was just a con, which I thought that was hilarious.

[00:27:51] Like she has actual magical powers, but that's not how she makes her money.

[00:27:55] She cons people about talking to the dead.

[00:27:57] That's great.

[00:27:58] I don't know.

[00:27:59] Who do you think she got that from?

[00:28:01] Who hated it the first time?

[00:28:03] All the chaos and everything.

[00:28:06] Was it Agatha's mom?

[00:28:08] I think she was channeling herself.

[00:28:11] Because in the second episode, she did the exact same thing.

[00:28:17] And when she said it in this episode, I think she was saying, I didn't like it.

[00:28:23] I think in the second episode, she was channeling this episode.

[00:28:27] Oh.

[00:28:27] And in this episode, she was channeling that episode.

[00:28:31] Oh, she's getting messages from herself.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:35] So here's one.

[00:28:35] Well, that Alice don't.

[00:28:37] Oh.

[00:28:37] That could also be her.

[00:28:39] I put that together with something today.

[00:28:42] Yeah.

[00:28:42] She said, try to save Agatha at one point.

[00:28:45] And she said, Alice don't.

[00:28:47] And if you put those together, Alice don't try to save Agatha.

[00:28:52] Yeah.

[00:28:52] So I think that she's channeling herself.

[00:28:59] Like, she kind of gave that clue today.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:02] Or in this episode, that she's not.

[00:29:05] I think she's just seeing past and future.

[00:29:11] And it's scrambled and she can't control it.

[00:29:13] And that's why she's on the road in the first place is she wants to get her powers back or, you know, her strength back because she's not in complete control.

[00:29:22] It might just be her sanity, right?

[00:29:24] Yeah.

[00:29:25] She's got scrambled head.

[00:29:27] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:28] Okay.

[00:29:28] That makes so much sense.

[00:29:30] Well, and it makes me wonder, too, because, you know, at the beginning of the episode, I mentioned how she wakes up and says they're coming.

[00:29:38] And we assume, obviously, she's talking about the Salem Seven.

[00:29:42] But one thing that was interesting to me is once they get on the brooms and they're kind of forced back down on the road, they fly through the cicadas, the cicada Salem Seven.

[00:29:58] And looking at this is actually a leftover from research from from that TV show.

[00:30:04] I don't know if anybody else listening watches that one on podcast.

[00:30:07] But looking up the symbol of symbolism of cicadas, it's there's a lot about rebirth and it being a metaphor for kind of spirits of the dead rising to eternal life.

[00:30:21] And with the blood moon aspect of this episode, talking about how the blood moon symbolizes when the veil is the thinnest between the living and the dead.

[00:30:31] I was like, I wonder if there's anything to that.

[00:30:33] The fact that they flew through and went through all of those cicadas prior to getting up and seeing this new house.

[00:30:42] And that was another thing that made me wonder if it was kind of a trick or a vision, because they, you know, it just seemed weird that flying through all those cicadas wouldn't do anything to them.

[00:30:55] What would be the point of?

[00:30:56] Yeah, there had to be some happening.

[00:30:59] So the cicadas, she kept messing with her hair through the whole episode.

[00:31:04] Yes.

[00:31:05] Yeah.

[00:31:06] But there was, again, WandaVision.

[00:31:09] There was a cicada.

[00:31:12] I don't know.

[00:31:13] It was one of the last episodes.

[00:31:14] Maybe the last episode.

[00:31:16] Was it in the basement?

[00:31:18] It was definitely in Agatha's house.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] She had the bunny and she had cicadas in the house.

[00:31:28] There was a cicada.

[00:31:29] Yeah.

[00:31:29] Well, remember the bunny ate the cicada?

[00:31:31] Yeah.

[00:31:32] Yeah.

[00:31:32] Little.

[00:31:33] What did she name him?

[00:31:35] Senior Scratches.

[00:31:37] Senior Scratchy.

[00:31:38] That's it.

[00:31:41] It's not the same bunny in Agatha from Wanda.

[00:31:46] The bunny in episode one and two of Agatha is like bigger and fluffier than the, and all white.

[00:31:55] And the bunny in WandaVision was a little sleeker and had like, I think like camel colored splotches.

[00:32:04] So it's not the same bunny.

[00:32:06] I mean.

[00:32:08] But when is it, does she see the cicada?

[00:32:10] Is it on the curtain in like the nineties theme episode or the modern episode?

[00:32:18] I don't know.

[00:32:18] There was a couple of times, but I can't remember.

[00:32:21] I don't remember.

[00:32:21] Cause I remember wondering if it was a cicada or like some other kind of bug.

[00:32:27] Cause it was creeping me out.

[00:32:28] They zoomed in on it and like focused on it.

[00:32:30] Pretty sure it was a cicada.

[00:32:31] It was a fully formed cicada.

[00:32:33] Yeah.

[00:32:33] The one that comes out after 17 years or 13 years or whichever one of those cicadas.

[00:32:40] Hmm.

[00:32:40] Let's talk about the Salem seven just real quick.

[00:32:43] Yes.

[00:32:44] First of all, in, you know, in episode two, we saw those animals and we wondered if they

[00:32:49] were the Salem sevens familiars, but it turns out they're, they're the actual Salem seven.

[00:32:55] We saw a fox, snake, crow.

[00:32:58] There's an owl.

[00:33:01] And of course, cicada.

[00:33:03] And in episode two, we saw a rat.

[00:33:04] I don't think we saw a rat in this episode and then, you know, no, no, no, no.

[00:33:08] We see a coyote yet.

[00:33:10] That was in, uh, we saw it in two second episode.

[00:33:13] I don't think there was a coyote in this episode.

[00:33:14] We saw the rat.

[00:33:15] I don't think so either.

[00:33:16] And the crow and two.

[00:33:19] Yeah.

[00:33:20] Okay.

[00:33:21] And then we saw the rest there.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:24] Yeah.

[00:33:24] So then they turn into this incredibly creepy group of women and we finally find out who

[00:33:30] they are.

[00:33:31] They are the children of the witches that Agatha killed.

[00:33:33] I love this story.

[00:33:35] And then Rio says, and then they became a feral hive minded coven bent on revenge.

[00:33:40] And I was like, oh, the idea of feral hive minded witches is just.

[00:33:45] Yep.

[00:33:47] And it also explains exactly what we saw in episode two, the way they moved sort of to

[00:33:53] that like parts of a whole creepy and like herky jerky and how their faces are all twisted.

[00:33:59] And they're, they're just like pure hatred.

[00:34:03] There doesn't seem to be any real human qualities left to them.

[00:34:08] Oh, well, and Penny, you mentioned that there were eight of, so remember there were eight

[00:34:13] witches.

[00:34:14] Yep.

[00:34:14] And I was like, well, why is there Salem seven?

[00:34:16] Well, Agatha is a daughter of one of them.

[00:34:20] So this is, so I was like, oh, she's.

[00:34:22] She would be the eight.

[00:34:23] Yeah.

[00:34:24] Yes.

[00:34:25] And there's like a connectivity.

[00:34:26] So I, that's what I was thinking about this whole episode is like, these were her peers

[00:34:32] back then.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:34] Well, we don't know that to be true, but these were the daughters of the people that.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:41] So, so they say they share that.

[00:34:44] And now they're all witches again.

[00:34:45] So I just, I, again, another one of those little parts.

[00:34:49] Oh, they are so gross.

[00:34:51] They're everything about like scary movies that I just.

[00:34:56] Yeah.

[00:34:57] You can't get them out of your head.

[00:34:58] Right.

[00:34:59] Nope.

[00:34:59] Because the way that they move is so unnatural.

[00:35:02] And I wonder, uh, I can't wait to see the, you know, the Marvel making of video they always

[00:35:09] put out at the end of every series and, and see who these performers are who are playing

[00:35:14] the Salem seven.

[00:35:15] And like, do they have some kind of like Cirque du Soleil background that allows them to

[00:35:20] move that way?

[00:35:21] Cause they are so creepy.

[00:35:23] There's a Tik TOK.

[00:35:25] One of the, one of the actresses has a Tik TOK and she's been posting just like very small

[00:35:31] snippets of behind the scenes with all of them.

[00:35:34] And a lot of them, it seems like they have dancer backgrounds and I've been trying to avoid

[00:35:40] anything on Tik TOK, but with those, I was like, this seems safe.

[00:35:43] Yeah.

[00:35:44] This I can watch and not get spoiled.

[00:35:47] So creepy.

[00:35:48] So, so, so creepy.

[00:35:49] If you bring up the, the coven.

[00:35:53] One thing that stood out to me so much in this episode is one, like how horrible Agatha's

[00:35:59] mom seems really like, holy hell to tell her that she was evil from birth and she should

[00:36:05] have killed her.

[00:36:06] Like as soon as she was born.

[00:36:08] When it makes the people that hate Agatha pause.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] Right.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] Like they were all like, Oh shoot.

[00:36:13] I was like, yeah.

[00:36:14] Yeah.

[00:36:14] Agatha.

[00:36:15] Like that is some bad parenting, bad, bad mother.

[00:36:19] Right.

[00:36:19] And Rio especially was like, and then when she was like, her mother can't have her.

[00:36:25] Like Rio knows that, that Agatha's mother was a nightmare.

[00:36:28] Right.

[00:36:29] She defended her right from the beginning.

[00:36:30] She's like, yeah, she killed her coven.

[00:36:31] Cause they were trying to kill her.

[00:36:33] And exactly.

[00:36:34] And then she's like, her mother can't have her.

[00:36:36] And like, she knows the backstory that we don't know yet.

[00:36:40] Like there's more.

[00:36:41] That made me giggle and kick my feet.

[00:36:43] I was like, Rio's standing up for her.

[00:36:45] I have a theory too.

[00:36:47] You know, Rio keeps wanting to kill Agatha.

[00:36:49] And you know, my theory being that Rio is, is death or works for death or something that

[00:36:55] if she kills Agatha, then she gets to keep her with her forever.

[00:36:59] Yep.

[00:37:00] Like it's a love thing.

[00:37:01] They'll be reunited.

[00:37:03] Look, we keep talking about their relationship.

[00:37:06] There's no way she's not.

[00:37:08] I mean, there are so many things that happen in this episode that let you know that she's

[00:37:14] definitely death.

[00:37:15] And I don't know the lady death character at all, except from the Thanos part.

[00:37:19] Yeah.

[00:37:19] But you know, first off, I don't know what kind of witchy, let's say that she's not,

[00:37:25] if she's not death, she is the happiest witch I have ever.

[00:37:29] Through this whole episode, our coven is scared out of their minds.

[00:37:33] And she's laughing, smiling.

[00:37:35] Yeah.

[00:37:36] Watch her in the background.

[00:37:38] Her best part of this episode is when she's not like actively participating because she's

[00:37:45] in the background, she's like that annoying kid.

[00:37:48] If you're a teacher, that kid in class that's always trying to like, I'm going to be in the background

[00:37:55] talking or I'm going to throw a spitball or I'm going to do this whole life.

[00:37:59] The more chaos, the better.

[00:38:01] Oh yeah.

[00:38:02] Like when they were all riding the brooms and they started to get dragged down, the other

[00:38:06] witches are screaming.

[00:38:07] She's laughing her head off.

[00:38:09] And that cackle was awesome.

[00:38:11] It was such a witch cackle.

[00:38:12] And then.

[00:38:13] It was identical to Wizard of Oz, by the way.

[00:38:15] When the wind and the spirit started like around the room and blowing everything around,

[00:38:21] she like jumps up.

[00:38:23] Like she's like, they're playing my jam.

[00:38:24] Like she's ready to dance to it.

[00:38:26] Like she was so happy.

[00:38:28] Sweetheart.

[00:38:29] You okay?

[00:38:30] I was just like, oh, yeah.

[00:38:32] Oh, yeah.

[00:38:33] I love when Jen was like, she's faking again.

[00:38:36] And Alice is like, not faking, not faking, not faking.

[00:38:40] Okay.

[00:38:40] My favorite part of the whole episode might've been when Jen takes her retainer out and is

[00:38:45] like, we have to punish Agatha and like puts it in this little case and puts it down.

[00:38:51] That was cute.

[00:38:52] I watched it like three times.

[00:38:53] I'm like, wait, if she's got a retainer in, if you go back to the, when she walks into the,

[00:39:00] when she walks into the cabin, she notices the retainer and just is like, okay, I'm just

[00:39:06] going to leave it in until that point.

[00:39:10] So funny.

[00:39:11] I just, I don't know.

[00:39:13] I, I don't know how you guys felt watching this episode, but I initially like, I felt

[00:39:19] kind of bad for Agatha after watching the flashback in WandaVision.

[00:39:25] I was just like, look, yeah, she killed all these people.

[00:39:28] She killed her mom, but she was defending herself.

[00:39:30] It really does seem like she can't entirely control taking someone's power because I didn't

[00:39:37] think she was intentionally trying to take Alice's and at least not initially.

[00:39:42] It seems like she says.

[00:39:45] I think it's an instinctive reaction, but then she leaned into it.

[00:39:50] Like she, yeah.

[00:39:53] What killed me is her saying almost the same thing that she said when they were, you know,

[00:40:00] when she ended up taking their powers back in, I don't remember, was it the last episode

[00:40:04] of WandaVision?

[00:40:05] Was it eight?

[00:40:06] Where we finally get a flashback or seven?

[00:40:09] It was one of the last two.

[00:40:10] One of those too.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:11] One of those.

[00:40:12] And she says, you know, please, I can be good to her mom in the coven as they're getting

[00:40:20] ready to kill her.

[00:40:21] And then she says to like the coven here, as they're talking about leaving her with her

[00:40:27] mother and punishing her, she says, don't leave me with her.

[00:40:30] I can be good, please.

[00:40:32] And I was just like, oh, wow.

[00:40:34] Yes.

[00:40:35] It was heartbreaking.

[00:40:36] She was, she was more afraid of having to be with her mother.

[00:40:40] And I don't know what power ghosts have.

[00:40:43] Obviously they can possess people, but is that the limit?

[00:40:46] Is there more that they can do?

[00:40:47] Or is it just the emotional abuse that she was going to have to suffer from her mother?

[00:40:51] Like what was really scaring her?

[00:40:54] It seemed pretty awful from what she was saying while comedic, like Catherine Hahn delivering

[00:40:59] those lines after being possessed by her mom.

[00:41:03] That's the closest I've ever felt to you.

[00:41:04] Yeah.

[00:41:05] I was just like, oh, that must've been miserable.

[00:41:07] Or when, you know, when Rio, they're all talking about punishing Agatha and Rio's like, let's

[00:41:12] just slit her throat.

[00:41:13] She's like, they asked me why I don't have any female friends.

[00:41:16] Yeah.

[00:41:16] I mean, she's so sassy.

[00:41:17] That was, that was amazing.

[00:41:20] It was so good.

[00:41:21] I've heard my wife say that so much.

[00:41:24] And the minute that, the minute she, the minute she said that I absolutely paralleled with,

[00:41:30] with many of the women that I know in my life have said that.

[00:41:33] Yeah.

[00:41:34] Well, I can say, uh, I have a lot of female friends lately and they're great, but yeah,

[00:41:41] I've never tried to kill them.

[00:41:43] They haven't tried to kill me.

[00:41:45] It's a little different.

[00:41:48] But her being possessed.

[00:41:50] And when she is up on the ceiling, I watched this when it came out.

[00:41:55] So it was like, I don't know, eight o'clock here.

[00:41:58] And I was in the dark in my room with all the lights off.

[00:42:02] And it actually legitimately scared me.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:04] I had to turn my lights back on afterwards and watch something happy because the way

[00:42:09] Agatha was moving reminded me kind of of the exorcist.

[00:42:13] Oh, I think that's very intentional.

[00:42:15] Oh, yeah.

[00:42:16] It was creeping me out.

[00:42:17] There was another movie that my kids got me to watch that I can't think of off the top

[00:42:21] of my head where there was a scene that looked identical to her being up on the ceiling.

[00:42:26] Hereditary, maybe?

[00:42:28] Oh, yes.

[00:42:29] Yes.

[00:42:29] Oh, I haven't seen that one.

[00:42:32] Yeah.

[00:42:33] Toni Collette is up in the ceiling.

[00:42:37] And I actually believe that's the point of the movie where I told my kids, no.

[00:42:43] I'm out.

[00:42:44] Nope.

[00:42:45] For me, it was like the opening credits and the camera pans past a dollhouse.

[00:42:52] And I was like, kids are involved.

[00:42:54] Nope.

[00:42:54] I'm done.

[00:42:57] Oh, that's so funny.

[00:42:59] But there's so many more that connect to this movie.

[00:43:02] And I'm like, nope.

[00:43:03] Yeah.

[00:43:04] Have fun.

[00:43:04] Yeah.

[00:43:05] That's fair.

[00:43:06] Well, and even hearing Nicholas, well, what we assume is Nicholas Scratch's voice saying,

[00:43:11] Mama, stop.

[00:43:12] Oh, my God.

[00:43:12] I was like, this is heartbreaking and also creepy.

[00:43:16] Yeah.

[00:43:16] Both.

[00:43:17] And was it him telling her to stop?

[00:43:20] Or was it an echo from the past?

[00:43:24] Right.

[00:43:25] Or was there any questions?

[00:43:27] Someone mimicking him.

[00:43:29] Was it, you know, like, in the scene, it looks like Teen, like, sees that the Ouija board thing,

[00:43:35] the planchette is moving.

[00:43:36] And he goes and looks at it.

[00:43:38] And it spells out Nicholas Scratch.

[00:43:39] And then he says Nicholas Scratch.

[00:43:41] And he says it like he doesn't know who Nicholas Scratch is.

[00:43:45] So I don't know if he knows the name of Agatha's son.

[00:43:48] But when he says it, then we hear the voice.

[00:43:51] And I believe now that he put the sigil on himself in order to let himself go sort of undercover.

[00:44:00] So, um, he might.

[00:44:03] He clearly has power.

[00:44:05] He might have set this in motion.

[00:44:07] Unlike how he represented it.

[00:44:08] Like, that might have been him being Nicholas Scratch.

[00:44:11] Or it could have been whoever's behind all this, like, pretending to be Nicholas Scratch.

[00:44:14] Or maybe the real Nicholas Scratch is alive somehow.

[00:44:18] And we just can't perceive him.

[00:44:21] Yeah.

[00:44:21] Like, we don't know that he died for sure.

[00:44:24] We just know that he is not in Agatha's life anymore.

[00:44:28] And it's tragic in some way.

[00:44:32] Interesting.

[00:44:34] Oh my god.

[00:44:35] Do you think that's when Agatha realized it was Billy?

[00:44:40] When he was able to say Nicholas Scratch?

[00:44:43] Or do you think she took Rio saying he's not yours?

[00:44:48] Is that when she started to be used to get it out?

[00:44:50] And it was Billy.

[00:44:51] I don't know.

[00:44:53] I don't know.

[00:44:53] Or did she know already?

[00:44:54] I mean, I don't.

[00:44:55] Because when she.

[00:44:56] I mean, look.

[00:44:58] So many questions.

[00:44:58] The scariest part of the episode to me.

[00:45:01] Because through this whole episode, I do feel like we were, again, another Katherine Hahn rollercoaster.

[00:45:07] Where we feel bad for her and don't feel bad for her at the same time.

[00:45:11] Yeah.

[00:45:11] Until we get to that end part where we, she walks up to him.

[00:45:18] It's the cameras on him.

[00:45:19] And in this beautiful scene, it pans to her.

[00:45:23] And she has that, the evilest smile I've ever seen her have in any of the episodes of any of the shows she's been on.

[00:45:31] And she says, I forget what he says to her.

[00:45:34] He says, is this.

[00:45:36] Oh, he says.

[00:45:37] Is this what being a witch is all about?

[00:45:39] Killing anybody who, you know, for your own ends.

[00:45:41] And she says, are you sure?

[00:45:43] And it pans.

[00:45:44] And she was.

[00:45:45] Yeah, with that smile.

[00:45:46] Are you sure?

[00:45:46] Not for me.

[00:45:48] And it didn't even sound like her.

[00:45:50] And I thought, well, maybe she's possessed, which is still possible.

[00:45:52] That was a creepy face.

[00:45:54] And then she puts the two fingers under her chin.

[00:45:56] And I was like, is this how you break the sigil?

[00:45:59] And then she like, she does her.

[00:46:01] Like, I've been talking about how she's the only one who moves like a witch.

[00:46:04] And she does that little wispy thing with her hands.

[00:46:07] And she says, you're so much like your mother.

[00:46:09] And she wisps her fingers.

[00:46:10] And she says, come pet.

[00:46:11] And that's what, that he had.

[00:46:14] He had that look once before in the episode.

[00:46:16] But he gets.

[00:46:17] And I forget when.

[00:46:18] Something set him off earlier.

[00:46:20] Oh, it's when they were talking.

[00:46:20] And somebody said, familiars.

[00:46:22] Jen says, familiars don't get a vote.

[00:46:24] He gets this look in his face.

[00:46:26] I was like, ooh.

[00:46:27] Yeah.

[00:46:27] And then he got it again.

[00:46:29] And that's when.

[00:46:31] That's when he started.

[00:46:33] I mean, that's when, you know.

[00:46:35] Well, yes.

[00:46:36] Yes.

[00:46:36] So.

[00:46:37] That's part of why I think he killed Mrs. Hart.

[00:46:39] Because he thought it would help him be part of the coven.

[00:46:42] Oh, he thought that without Mrs. Hart, they'd make him part of the coven.

[00:46:46] He would take the place of Mrs. Hart.

[00:46:49] That's possible.

[00:46:50] I don't know.

[00:46:50] I noticed that Rio was not in that scene.

[00:46:53] Rio has not yet come out of the house.

[00:46:55] She's still back there with Alice's body.

[00:46:58] And I'm thinking.

[00:46:59] She's gotta.

[00:46:59] She.

[00:46:59] Take care of her.

[00:47:00] She uses bodies for something.

[00:47:02] We.

[00:47:02] Like, does she take them somewhere?

[00:47:04] Does she use them for something?

[00:47:05] We don't know.

[00:47:06] Because.

[00:47:06] Last episode she said, and I'll get my bodies.

[00:47:09] And we don't know what they're for.

[00:47:11] And so what's she doing with Alice's body?

[00:47:15] Creepy.

[00:47:16] But.

[00:47:17] It does leave open that she could now come out of the house.

[00:47:20] And save.

[00:47:21] Agatha, Jen, and Lilia from the mud.

[00:47:24] Like, that's a possibility.

[00:47:26] Getting sucked into quicksand is like.

[00:47:30] Terrifying.

[00:47:31] Terrifying.

[00:47:33] I don't know how you survive that.

[00:47:35] Unless she's able to get them out immediately.

[00:47:39] And clear their airways.

[00:47:42] It's very.

[00:47:43] Mrs. Bride swamp of.

[00:47:46] Fire swamp.

[00:47:47] Fire swamp.

[00:47:48] Yeah.

[00:47:48] Oh, God.

[00:47:54] We've made it 45 minutes into this podcast.

[00:47:57] And we've yet to talk about.

[00:47:59] Probably the saddest part of the entire episode.

[00:48:02] Alice.

[00:48:04] After Alice.

[00:48:06] Experienced literally pure joy.

[00:48:08] I went back and watched the last episode.

[00:48:10] Because when she.

[00:48:11] When she.

[00:48:13] And I'm using quote fingers here.

[00:48:15] When she died in this episode.

[00:48:17] Um.

[00:48:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:20] I went back and watched when she.

[00:48:22] Broke the curse.

[00:48:23] And.

[00:48:24] The literal joy she had on her face.

[00:48:26] When she said that she did it.

[00:48:28] Like I.

[00:48:29] Bringing.

[00:48:30] Yeah.

[00:48:30] And then her relationship with teen.

[00:48:34] Which.

[00:48:34] You know.

[00:48:35] They bonded over that.

[00:48:36] You know.

[00:48:37] Three.

[00:48:37] Third.

[00:48:38] What happened to them at.

[00:48:39] At 13.

[00:48:41] At 13.

[00:48:42] And then of course.

[00:48:43] This episode.

[00:48:44] They make brooms for each other.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:47] The just.

[00:48:48] And then she discovers her power.

[00:48:50] She saved him.

[00:48:51] Yes.

[00:48:51] She didn't know.

[00:48:52] That she could do that.

[00:48:54] Until.

[00:48:55] The look on her face.

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:57] Was like whoa.

[00:48:58] Check me out.

[00:48:59] When she realizes how power.

[00:49:00] How powerful she is.

[00:49:02] But she.

[00:49:03] She.

[00:49:04] She saved.

[00:49:05] She saved.

[00:49:06] The teen.

[00:49:08] When.

[00:49:09] He.

[00:49:10] When.

[00:49:11] He got grabbed by one of the.

[00:49:13] Salem seven.

[00:49:14] And she.

[00:49:15] Cranked the.

[00:49:18] The witch.

[00:49:19] Off of him there.

[00:49:20] Like they.

[00:49:21] They were bonding.

[00:49:22] And he was.

[00:49:22] Furious at her.

[00:49:24] When all of that went down.

[00:49:26] There.

[00:49:28] There's.

[00:49:29] Like.

[00:49:30] And I can't quite.

[00:49:31] I know.

[00:49:32] I know.

[00:49:33] It's Billy.

[00:49:34] I get it.

[00:49:35] But I just.

[00:49:35] Cannot yet.

[00:49:36] Convince myself.

[00:49:37] I just.

[00:49:38] It just seems.

[00:49:39] Just seems too easy.

[00:49:41] It just seems too easy.

[00:49:43] Well.

[00:49:43] I think it just means.

[00:49:44] That there's.

[00:49:45] A bigger reveal coming.

[00:49:48] Yeah.

[00:49:49] Like.

[00:49:50] Like.

[00:49:50] Is he trying to get.

[00:49:51] Back to his mother?

[00:49:53] Does it have something with trying to get.

[00:49:55] Wanda back?

[00:49:56] Are he and Rio.

[00:49:57] Working together.

[00:49:57] Or.

[00:49:57] He has a twin brother.

[00:49:58] Did they make a deal?

[00:49:59] Where's the brother?

[00:50:01] Yeah.

[00:50:04] Yeah.

[00:50:04] See.

[00:50:04] I think this is all Wanda.

[00:50:07] I could see it.

[00:50:07] I think this is all Wanda.

[00:50:09] Well.

[00:50:09] Because.

[00:50:09] I just.

[00:50:10] We have experience with Wanda creating.

[00:50:13] Not even a different universe.

[00:50:14] But creating.

[00:50:17] Like a reality.

[00:50:19] A different reality.

[00:50:20] An altered reality.

[00:50:21] Which is what this road seems to be.

[00:50:23] Which is what all of these other things seem to be.

[00:50:25] We're heading down.

[00:50:26] A path to something.

[00:50:28] And.

[00:50:29] I'm super intrigued with.

[00:50:31] With the relationship between.

[00:50:34] Rio and Agatha.

[00:50:35] And.

[00:50:36] You know.

[00:50:36] While we're.

[00:50:37] The assumption is that they.

[00:50:39] They were in.

[00:50:40] Maybe they were.

[00:50:41] They were in love.

[00:50:42] Or they are in love.

[00:50:43] Which I still think.

[00:50:44] Don't get me wrong.

[00:50:45] But I think that.

[00:50:45] Yeah.

[00:50:46] When you.

[00:50:46] If you consider that she is death.

[00:50:48] If Rhea is death.

[00:50:49] I think having.

[00:50:50] A relationship with death makes sense.

[00:50:53] Which makes this whole dance.

[00:50:55] That they're doing.

[00:50:56] Really.

[00:50:56] Kind of interesting.

[00:50:57] And.

[00:50:58] You know.

[00:50:58] I started thinking about that today.

[00:51:00] There's so many longing looks.

[00:51:02] That Agatha had for Rio.

[00:51:04] Throughout the past three or four episodes.

[00:51:06] Including this one.

[00:51:07] When they were flying on the broom.

[00:51:08] And.

[00:51:09] Oh gosh.

[00:51:10] That was full of tension.

[00:51:12] Yeah.

[00:51:13] Yeah.

[00:51:14] She turned around and looked.

[00:51:15] And.

[00:51:15] It was the one moment where Rio.

[00:51:17] Wasn't kind of laughing.

[00:51:18] And smiling.

[00:51:19] Yeah.

[00:51:19] But if we're on a path.

[00:51:21] Maybe to Agatha's death.

[00:51:22] At the end of this.

[00:51:24] That makes a whole lot of sense.

[00:51:26] To me.

[00:51:27] And it would make sense.

[00:51:28] That then.

[00:51:29] You know.

[00:51:29] Rio would have her.

[00:51:30] Forever.

[00:51:32] If that's the case.

[00:51:33] Then.

[00:51:33] See.

[00:51:34] So I.

[00:51:34] I.

[00:51:35] I can't let go of the last.

[00:51:37] Like two minutes of this episode.

[00:51:38] Because Agatha.

[00:51:40] To me.

[00:51:43] Is the bad.

[00:51:45] Is.

[00:51:49] I kind of think.

[00:51:50] That Billy's going to turn out.

[00:51:51] To be the hero of the story.

[00:51:53] That's what I think.

[00:51:54] That would track.

[00:51:55] With that.

[00:51:56] He is in the comics.

[00:51:57] In the comics.

[00:51:58] He's basically.

[00:51:59] And I'm not an expert.

[00:52:01] He didn't seem like a bad guy.

[00:52:02] He's a good guy in the comics.

[00:52:04] And.

[00:52:05] And he's extremely.

[00:52:07] Like even more powerful than Wanda.

[00:52:09] I think.

[00:52:10] And.

[00:52:13] He was angry.

[00:52:14] At Agatha.

[00:52:15] For the right reasons.

[00:52:17] Right.

[00:52:17] He was angry at her.

[00:52:19] For killing Alice.

[00:52:20] He was angry at her.

[00:52:21] For her.

[00:52:22] Like snippy.

[00:52:24] Attitude toward him.

[00:52:26] Why he decided.

[00:52:28] Oh I do know why.

[00:52:29] So Jen.

[00:52:30] And.

[00:52:30] Lilia.

[00:52:31] When they come out of the house.

[00:52:32] And he's.

[00:52:33] You know.

[00:52:33] He's saying to Agatha.

[00:52:34] Is that what this was all about.

[00:52:35] All along.

[00:52:36] Getting power.

[00:52:37] Jen's like.

[00:52:37] That's all it was for any of us.

[00:52:40] And Lilia says.

[00:52:41] Death comes for us all.

[00:52:42] So I think he's mad at them too.

[00:52:44] For being.

[00:52:44] Sort of offhand.

[00:52:45] About Alice dying.

[00:52:47] And he was.

[00:52:47] Yeah.

[00:52:48] He was.

[00:52:48] You know.

[00:52:51] That's why he punished all of them.

[00:52:53] That's not evil punishing.

[00:52:55] That's.

[00:52:56] Hurt.

[00:52:56] Angry.

[00:52:57] It's like what you're saying about Wanda.

[00:52:59] She wasn't trying to hurt people.

[00:53:00] She hurt people.

[00:53:02] Sort of incidentally.

[00:53:04] To what she was trying to do.

[00:53:05] Yeah.

[00:53:06] Well.

[00:53:06] That's why I don't think he's necessarily.

[00:53:09] A bad guy.

[00:53:10] Even if he did.

[00:53:12] Kill.

[00:53:12] Mrs.

[00:53:13] Heart.

[00:53:13] To try to be a part of the coven.

[00:53:15] Because hypothetically.

[00:53:17] If he is doing this.

[00:53:18] Somehow.

[00:53:19] Out of grief.

[00:53:20] Trying to.

[00:53:21] Be reunited with.

[00:53:23] Wanda.

[00:53:24] Or get his mother back.

[00:53:25] I could see him rationalizing.

[00:53:27] Kind of like Wanda did.

[00:53:28] That that's a necessary sacrifice.

[00:53:30] That he would have to make.

[00:53:31] To be reunited with.

[00:53:33] The mom he loves.

[00:53:34] And I.

[00:53:35] I did want to ask.

[00:53:36] I don't know if you guys talked about this.

[00:53:38] In the.

[00:53:39] Second or third episode.

[00:53:41] But.

[00:53:42] I was going back.

[00:53:44] And pausing.

[00:53:46] As I rewatched them.

[00:53:47] To take notes.

[00:53:48] And there's.

[00:53:49] A scene.

[00:53:50] I think in episode.

[00:53:53] Three.

[00:53:55] Where.

[00:53:56] Rio.

[00:53:56] First comes out.

[00:53:57] You know.

[00:53:57] And she says.

[00:53:58] I'm the green witch.

[00:53:59] Which also.

[00:54:00] Oh that's the beginning of four.

[00:54:01] Rabbit hole.

[00:54:02] Yeah.

[00:54:02] Four.

[00:54:03] Okay.

[00:54:03] And if you.

[00:54:04] That you get a really good view.

[00:54:06] Of all of them standing on the road.

[00:54:08] And his sweater.

[00:54:10] Like.

[00:54:11] At first.

[00:54:11] When I thought it was.

[00:54:13] Kind of holes.

[00:54:14] In it.

[00:54:15] And nothing significant.

[00:54:17] But looking at it.

[00:54:18] When I paused it.

[00:54:19] And I was on my iPad.

[00:54:20] So you could zoom.

[00:54:21] It looks like runes.

[00:54:24] On it.

[00:54:24] Oh.

[00:54:25] And since I had just watched.

[00:54:27] Wanda vision.

[00:54:28] And it was this whole thing about.

[00:54:30] You know.

[00:54:31] First.

[00:54:32] Wanda.

[00:54:33] Or Agatha.

[00:54:34] Using runes.

[00:54:35] So she was the only one that could use her power.

[00:54:37] When she trapped Wanda.

[00:54:38] And then later Wanda.

[00:54:39] Doing the same thing.

[00:54:40] Up in the sky.

[00:54:41] I was just like.

[00:54:42] Holy.

[00:54:42] Is that significant?

[00:54:44] I don't know if you curse on this one.

[00:54:45] But.

[00:54:46] But I'll.

[00:54:46] I'll beep you out.

[00:54:48] It's good.

[00:54:49] But I was just like.

[00:54:50] That can't be a coincidence.

[00:54:52] I mean.

[00:54:52] I guess it could.

[00:54:53] It could just be like.

[00:54:54] A fun little Easter egg.

[00:54:55] But it looked like runes.

[00:54:56] I know you haven't finished listening.

[00:54:58] To the podcast from last week.

[00:55:00] But at the end.

[00:55:01] In the news section.

[00:55:03] We talk about an article.

[00:55:05] About the costuming.

[00:55:06] And how.

[00:55:07] His sweater.

[00:55:09] Is meant to be.

[00:55:10] Something he made himself.

[00:55:12] And also.

[00:55:13] The costume designer.

[00:55:14] Says that if you look.

[00:55:15] Carefully at all the costumes.

[00:55:17] There are clues.

[00:55:18] To the whole story.

[00:55:19] In the costumes.

[00:55:20] So.

[00:55:21] I think you're very much.

[00:55:22] On to something.

[00:55:23] Oh that makes me so much.

[00:55:24] More excited.

[00:55:25] Yeah.

[00:55:26] Holy crap.

[00:55:26] I was sitting there.

[00:55:27] I was like.

[00:55:27] I'm overthinking this.

[00:55:28] This means nothing.

[00:55:30] No.

[00:55:30] You're on to something.

[00:55:32] Oh that makes me so happy.

[00:55:34] Yeah.

[00:55:34] We linked that article.

[00:55:36] In the show notes.

[00:55:36] So you got to read the whole thing.

[00:55:38] Sweet.

[00:55:39] I told.

[00:55:39] I was telling Penny.

[00:55:41] Jim.

[00:55:41] That I'm like.

[00:55:41] 52 minutes in.

[00:55:43] To y'all's coverage.

[00:55:43] Of episode four.

[00:55:45] I didn't get to finish it.

[00:55:46] We start really humming along.

[00:55:48] Too late.

[00:55:48] About that point.

[00:55:49] Yeah.

[00:55:49] Dang it.

[00:55:52] So and then the other thing.

[00:55:54] That makes me think.

[00:55:55] That he's Wanda's son.

[00:55:57] Aside from all of the other.

[00:55:58] A million things.

[00:55:59] When he launches.

[00:56:01] Lilia.

[00:56:01] And Jen.

[00:56:02] Into the.

[00:56:04] Quicksand.

[00:56:05] He looks exactly.

[00:56:07] Like Scarlet Witch.

[00:56:09] Yeah.

[00:56:09] When she's throwing stuff.

[00:56:10] All over the place.

[00:56:11] I mean.

[00:56:12] To a T.

[00:56:13] The way he moves.

[00:56:15] Was certainly like.

[00:56:17] His mother.

[00:56:18] If we're to believe that.

[00:56:19] That's who he is.

[00:56:20] So.

[00:56:21] I yeah.

[00:56:21] I mean.

[00:56:22] I mean.

[00:56:22] You know.

[00:56:23] I just.

[00:56:24] Was hoping.

[00:56:26] I don't.

[00:56:27] The big thing.

[00:56:28] The big thing.

[00:56:28] That we don't know.

[00:56:29] Must be really big.

[00:56:30] And it.

[00:56:31] Yeah.

[00:56:31] I don't want it to be.

[00:56:32] Because I'm afraid.

[00:56:33] It's going to be Rio being death.

[00:56:35] Which Penny was on to.

[00:56:37] Like in episode two.

[00:56:38] In the very beginning.

[00:56:40] Yeah.

[00:56:40] Like.

[00:56:41] Well.

[00:56:41] And in this episode.

[00:56:43] How much more obvious.

[00:56:44] When the Ouija board.

[00:56:46] Like.

[00:56:46] We are in the presence of death.

[00:56:48] And Rio starts cackling.

[00:56:50] Yeah.

[00:56:50] I was just like.

[00:56:51] Well.

[00:56:51] Okay.

[00:56:52] Yeah.

[00:56:52] She picks her head up.

[00:56:53] And looks almost right at the camera.

[00:56:55] She's like.

[00:56:55] And starts laughing.

[00:56:57] Yeah.

[00:56:57] Did you notice.

[00:56:59] That.

[00:57:00] On the Ouija board.

[00:57:02] That it said.

[00:57:02] Parker Brothers.

[00:57:03] Salem.

[00:57:04] Massachusetts.

[00:57:05] Oh.

[00:57:06] I didn't notice that.

[00:57:06] That's great.

[00:57:07] Do either one of you know.

[00:57:09] If.

[00:57:09] I didn't look this up.

[00:57:10] I meant to look this up.

[00:57:10] If.

[00:57:11] If.

[00:57:12] Parker Brothers really was from Salem.

[00:57:14] Massachusetts.

[00:57:14] Because.

[00:57:15] I have.

[00:57:15] That's weird.

[00:57:17] Yeah.

[00:57:18] Let's see.

[00:57:19] That's really funny.

[00:57:21] Let's look it up.

[00:57:23] On the Googs.

[00:57:24] And see.

[00:57:25] Parker Brothers origin.

[00:57:27] Founded in Medford.

[00:57:29] Massachusetts.

[00:57:30] Wait.

[00:57:31] But it was in Salem.

[00:57:33] For decades.

[00:57:34] So yeah.

[00:57:36] Really.

[00:57:37] To Salem in 1885.

[00:57:38] Founded in Medford.

[00:57:39] See.

[00:57:39] In 1883.

[00:57:41] In 1883.

[00:57:41] So yeah.

[00:57:42] Salem.

[00:57:42] Witches have been controlling us for hundreds of years.

[00:57:47] We used to do Ouija when I was in high school.

[00:57:51] My friends and I would like.

[00:57:53] You know.

[00:57:54] Underage drink.

[00:57:55] Yeah.

[00:57:55] And then.

[00:57:56] Stay up really late.

[00:57:57] And play with Ouija board at night.

[00:57:59] And.

[00:57:59] We were convinced that we were communing with ghosts and stuff.

[00:58:03] But.

[00:58:04] My best friend had one in elementary school.

[00:58:06] And my parents said I was not allowed to use it.

[00:58:08] Of course your parents.

[00:58:09] So guess what I did.

[00:58:09] Every time.

[00:58:12] I went over there.

[00:58:13] Of course you did.

[00:58:15] Of course you did.

[00:58:17] I definitely remember creeping myself out a few times too.

[00:58:21] Well they are creepy.

[00:58:23] That's really funny.

[00:58:24] Jeez.

[00:58:25] I thought the whole bit where.

[00:58:27] Where.

[00:58:29] Agatha faked being Mrs.

[00:58:31] Hart was so funny.

[00:58:33] Oh my gosh.

[00:58:34] Because of course.

[00:58:35] She doesn't know the woman's name.

[00:58:37] So she did Mrs.

[00:58:38] Hart.

[00:58:39] And then Alice is like.

[00:58:40] Her name is Sharon Davis.

[00:58:42] And Jen's like.

[00:58:43] Agatha.

[00:58:43] That's not her name.

[00:58:44] That's Agatha.

[00:58:45] She's faking it.

[00:58:46] And.

[00:58:47] And at first I wasn't sure.

[00:58:48] I was like.

[00:58:49] Why would she.

[00:58:50] Say Mrs.

[00:58:51] Hart.

[00:58:52] That's not her name.

[00:58:53] And then I was like.

[00:58:54] Oh.

[00:58:55] Agatha faked that whole thing.

[00:58:57] Like.

[00:58:57] Oh.

[00:58:58] Yeah.

[00:58:58] And it was.

[00:58:59] It was a good fake.

[00:59:00] And her impression of Deborah Jo Rupp was pretty good.

[00:59:03] Oh my gosh.

[00:59:04] That was pretty spot on.

[00:59:05] That was pretty funny.

[00:59:06] Well she also.

[00:59:07] Can we talk about the number of.

[00:59:08] Rules they broke.

[00:59:10] For the Ouija board.

[00:59:11] Oh like all of them.

[00:59:12] Wait I have.

[00:59:12] All of them.

[00:59:13] I wrote down the rules.

[00:59:14] All right.

[00:59:14] So don't use the Ouija board alone.

[00:59:17] All right.

[00:59:17] They didn't break that one.

[00:59:19] Don't.

[00:59:19] Well Teen did.

[00:59:20] Oh that's true.

[00:59:21] When he went over and.

[00:59:23] Yeah.

[00:59:24] Don't speak over each other.

[00:59:26] Unclear if that's actually a rule.

[00:59:27] Or if Teen just said that.

[00:59:30] I love that they all spoke over each other when they.

[00:59:32] That was.

[00:59:33] Just one of those little brilliant parts of this show.

[00:59:36] Yeah.

[00:59:37] Yeah.

[00:59:37] Don't taunt the spirits.

[00:59:39] Don't lift your hand from the planchette or it will release a spirit.

[00:59:43] Which of course they all did.

[00:59:45] Yeah.

[00:59:45] Don't ask about death.

[00:59:48] Always end the session with goodbye.

[00:59:50] And then I love that Lilia's like what does it say there on the back?

[00:59:53] And he's like.

[00:59:54] Oh yeah.

[00:59:56] That was cute.

[00:59:59] I think you all qualify.

[01:00:01] Lilia.

[01:00:02] Did we already talk about.

[01:00:03] I know we talked about Lilia shouting out like.

[01:00:06] I didn't like this the first time.

[01:00:07] But Teen's immediate response of Lilia's being weird again.

[01:00:11] Yeah.

[01:00:11] Cracked me up.

[01:00:13] So funny.

[01:00:13] I was just like.

[01:00:14] Oh.

[01:00:14] So side note too.

[01:00:16] Just.

[01:00:16] I don't know that this means anything.

[01:00:18] But first of all there's no way that a Ouija board is ages three and up.

[01:00:23] So I just checked.

[01:00:24] And it's eight and up.

[01:00:26] Oh.

[01:00:27] Eight and still.

[01:00:27] Well the only reason.

[01:00:28] The only reason why I mentioned that is because that could be it.

[01:00:32] They played it off like it wasn't a rule or it wasn't something important.

[01:00:36] But maybe it was.

[01:00:37] But it struck out like I don't know.

[01:00:38] I don't know many games.

[01:00:40] How old was Nicholas Scratch when she supposedly traded him for the book of the damned or whatever.

[01:00:46] Right.

[01:00:46] Well and the timing of that.

[01:00:48] And also three years ago.

[01:00:49] Three years is how long she was stuck under the Wanda's spell.

[01:00:52] Yeah.

[01:00:53] That's interesting.

[01:00:54] The timing of the of her son is important because we don't have any idea when that happened.

[01:01:04] It could have happened before we see her in 1693.

[01:01:09] That might be why she's up there.

[01:01:12] I just we don't.

[01:01:13] The amount of information we know about these people.

[01:01:17] The funny thing is is it felt like we knew the most about Alice and now Jen.

[01:01:21] And well Jen and then Alice we know a lot about both of them.

[01:01:25] But I I we don't know everything.

[01:01:30] Is that not a comic thing?

[01:01:31] The Nicholas Scratch and Agatha giving him up for the book of the damned.

[01:01:35] Is that a show thing as opposed to something that's based on comic canon?

[01:01:40] I I believe that the I think giving him up for the book is a is an MC is a is a cinematic thing.

[01:01:47] OK.

[01:01:49] I think there's been a few different stories about what has happened to him in the comics that dependent on when you read it, whether it be in the 60s or the 80s or the 90s.

[01:01:59] I think they've retrofitted a few of those things together.

[01:02:03] I just don't know much about it.

[01:02:04] I just every time I've seen him in a comic book, he's been old.

[01:02:10] You know, he's been he kind of reminded me of of.

[01:02:18] Oh, gosh, I'm freezing.

[01:02:20] But yeah, he he I don't know the story at all.

[01:02:24] So, yeah, that was one thing I was wondering about.

[01:02:28] We we need a Marvel expert to write in or call in.

[01:02:33] A deep, a deep Marvel expert, because I just don't think this is a big story in the in the grander scheme.

[01:02:39] Yeah, this is some obscure Marvel knowledge.

[01:02:42] Yeah.

[01:02:44] So I'm just down to a few small notes in my prep for the show.

[01:02:50] I did want to bring up that when they're talking about whether when Agatha is possessed and and what to do about it, you know, they're all yelling and screaming.

[01:03:02] Lillia says Night of Wands and she has been doing this throughout the show.

[01:03:07] Right.

[01:03:07] She says tarot cards.

[01:03:08] Night of Wands is a hero card.

[01:03:11] It's basically like a knight on horseback riding in to save someone.

[01:03:15] So I assume that she's talking about how Alice was going to just jump in there and save Agatha.

[01:03:22] That seems like a pretty straightforward interpretation.

[01:03:25] I do like that Lillia keeps calling out tarot cards and there is a promotional poster of her holding the tower.

[01:03:33] So I think that's going to have something to do with her backstory.

[01:03:38] And I just I don't know.

[01:03:39] I had sort of I was into tarot cards a long time ago and I kind of forgot about them until this show.

[01:03:45] And now I'm like, oh, I think I'm going to start looking at tarot cards again.

[01:03:48] I don't believe in their power to magically tell you the future or anything.

[01:03:53] But I do think that that doing a tarot reading can give you a structure to think about a problem by saying like different answers.

[01:04:02] Then you'll reject or accept them.

[01:04:04] It helps you figure out what you yourself think.

[01:04:07] And so it's like a useful way to meditate on something.

[01:04:12] Have we seen the death tarot card yet?

[01:04:15] Nope.

[01:04:19] OK.

[01:04:20] I am super curious about that card.

[01:04:22] That's probably that'll probably be a reveal if we ever get to see that card.

[01:04:26] That could be fun.

[01:04:27] Yeah.

[01:04:28] So I have I have a couple of weird little notes like Hexen Bessen.

[01:04:34] Oh, I loved that.

[01:04:35] They said at the beginning.

[01:04:36] Yeah.

[01:04:36] Which is German for witch's broom.

[01:04:39] That was cool.

[01:04:40] And then I loved how they had to give them to each other.

[01:04:44] And that the whole point is that they had to all fly together.

[01:04:47] I thought that was so great.

[01:04:48] So did you see who didn't do a chant, though?

[01:04:51] There was one pair that didn't do a chant at all.

[01:04:53] They just sort of walked in a circle.

[01:04:55] Was it Rio and Agatha?

[01:04:57] Rio and Agatha.

[01:04:58] Yeah.

[01:04:58] They just sort of looked at each other like, ew.

[01:05:01] Yeah.

[01:05:03] I can't believe we're doing this.

[01:05:06] There was a moment with the Ouija board that we haven't talked about yet.

[01:05:10] And that was when it's first sort of sitting there and they show it.

[01:05:15] And the planchette is sitting directly on the W.

[01:05:20] For no reason.

[01:05:22] And then we see, then it pans back and then they show it again.

[01:05:27] And I believe it's teen that takes it to the middle to start it all off.

[01:05:34] And I also noticed that the teen is the one who's found the clue in every single trial.

[01:05:39] Which I guess lends credence to everything that you guys said about him maybe running the show.

[01:05:45] Yeah.

[01:05:45] Because he found it.

[01:05:46] He found it in this one.

[01:05:48] He found it in Jen's because he actually they had him read it off the mantle.

[01:05:56] And then I'm pretty sure he played the record.

[01:06:00] Oh, yeah.

[01:06:02] Hmm.

[01:06:02] Okay.

[01:06:04] Yeah.

[01:06:05] That is.

[01:06:05] Boy.

[01:06:06] Well, and speaking of teen, my other like little notes were related to him.

[01:06:12] One of the reasons, you know, we talked about why we thought or what we thought supported him being Billy or Wiccan.

[01:06:20] And one of the things that kept coming up when I was looking up Wiccan as a character after watching the episode was that he has the ability to heal himself and others.

[01:06:32] And there's that scene where I'm terrible.

[01:06:36] I can't remember what episode it is in where teens hurt and Agatha is kind of pleading with Rio or she's like, don't.

[01:06:45] And everybody assumes.

[01:06:46] Thank you.

[01:06:47] That Jen is the one who's able to heal him.

[01:06:50] But after this one and reading more about Wiccan, I was like, well, crap, maybe he kind of was able to do that himself.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:57] And that also made me wonder more about the Mrs. Hart and Sharon thing, because we see her.

[01:07:04] She's still alive as they're pouring the antidote in her mouth.

[01:07:08] She's still alive as the water is coming in.

[01:07:10] Like you hear her groaning and moaning and you see her reacting to the water coming in.

[01:07:16] And as they're carrying her in the oven and teen is alone with her.

[01:07:22] So I'm just like, there's a chance he was able to say something or do something.

[01:07:26] Or is there a chance that he could make her appear dead?

[01:07:31] Effectively.

[01:07:32] Actually, my vitamin D alarm is going off to the tune of Star Wars Imperial March.

[01:07:39] So that's good.

[01:07:41] Or if he put the sigil on himself, he might not have known that he had the power to heal her.

[01:07:48] Or he's also very new in being Wiccan, right?

[01:07:52] He's still a kid.

[01:07:53] So he may not have discovered all the powers that he has.

[01:07:57] He's baby Wiccan.

[01:07:58] That's why I have so many questions.

[01:08:00] Can we talk about his spell book for a second?

[01:08:03] We haven't talked about it.

[01:08:04] That's coming back.

[01:08:05] I kind of, did he though?

[01:08:08] I don't know.

[01:08:09] So I kind of feel like maybe the spell book is more important than we think.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:14] I agree with you there.

[01:08:16] So does he have the spell book?

[01:08:19] I tried to, he said he lost it maybe when he was on a broom.

[01:08:24] So of course I watched that scene a bazillion times.

[01:08:28] Doesn't look like he could have lost it anywhere except for when he fell or maybe when he crossed through the threshold when he kind of ran past Agatha.

[01:08:36] Is the spell book something else?

[01:08:40] Since we have a pretty important book.

[01:08:41] Or was it really a spell book?

[01:08:43] Did he really lose it?

[01:08:44] And do the Salem Seven have it now?

[01:08:46] Like there's so many possibilities.

[01:08:49] Oh my gosh.

[01:08:49] Gosh.

[01:08:49] Yeah.

[01:08:50] Well, I mean the Seven come out right around where Rio came out.

[01:08:57] And if you remember when Rio came out.

[01:08:58] She came.

[01:08:59] Well, remember when she came out though?

[01:09:02] She was all herky jerky.

[01:09:03] Yeah.

[01:09:04] She was great.

[01:09:05] Okay.

[01:09:06] And then there was an, yeah, they left it open.

[01:09:09] There was an obsidian that was left there.

[01:09:12] That was the obsidian by the way that Lily had put down.

[01:09:14] So I don't, by the way, when they were flying on the brooms, speaking of Star Wars references, did it not, it reminded me of like Return of the Jedi when they were on the speeder bikes?

[01:09:29] Oh yeah.

[01:09:29] There was even some music.

[01:09:31] If you go back and listen to the music, there's no way that was an homage.

[01:09:35] And then, so if you didn't get this vibe, I'm going to just apologize right away.

[01:09:41] But the cabin, I watched it so many times just looking at the stuff in the cabin.

[01:09:47] First off, there was a TV.

[01:09:49] Poltergeist.

[01:09:50] The two TV.

[01:09:51] There were so many poltergeist references.

[01:09:54] Yes.

[01:09:54] The robot.

[01:09:55] The robot's what set me off.

[01:09:57] The robot.

[01:09:58] I was like, when did I see a robot like that?

[01:10:00] And it was in that little boy's room.

[01:10:03] Yeah.

[01:10:03] How about, how about what Agatha was wearing?

[01:10:07] Oh yeah.

[01:10:08] She was wearing a jersey like the mom was wearing in Poltergeist, except for it had a three on it.

[01:10:15] Yeah.

[01:10:15] So what would the three represent?

[01:10:17] I don't know what the, oh.

[01:10:18] Well, three years comes back up again.

[01:10:21] Oh, three years or the, the, the.

[01:10:24] Pendant that she has.

[01:10:26] Mother maiden crone.

[01:10:28] Which did you notice that was her bracelet?

[01:10:31] That turned into a bracelet.

[01:10:32] That was cool.

[01:10:33] I don't know this to be true because I'm gonna need Penny for this, but Jen had a, like a sweatshirt on.

[01:10:40] And on the sweatshirt, I think it might've been the locket.

[01:10:46] Like it was like right here.

[01:10:48] It's not, not the actual locket.

[01:10:51] I think it was just like a, a print on the t-shirt.

[01:10:54] That'd be cool.

[01:10:55] I didn't notice that.

[01:10:57] Jen had, she was wearing like a pajama onesie.

[01:11:00] It had like, it had icons on it.

[01:11:03] Yeah.

[01:11:04] Yeah.

[01:11:04] Right here though.

[01:11:05] It looked like there was.

[01:11:08] Like a, it looked like a necklace.

[01:11:09] I thought it was a necklace at first.

[01:11:11] And I was like, no, that's just pajamas.

[01:11:12] I'd have to go back and look.

[01:11:14] I did.

[01:11:14] There's so much to look at.

[01:11:16] It's hard.

[01:11:17] Rio had, she had like a little, like little green things on her, like little pocket for being the green witch.

[01:11:23] That was cute.

[01:11:25] And I love that Lilia was the mom.

[01:11:27] Like she was not attending the slugger party.

[01:11:29] She's the mom.

[01:11:31] Yeah.

[01:11:33] Yeah.

[01:12:00] That was so good.

[01:12:00] Closing credits.

[01:12:01] They've got a new song for us.

[01:12:03] It's Billie Eilish.

[01:12:04] So Billie, another clue.

[01:12:06] And the song is, You Should See Me in a Crown.

[01:12:09] And it's, it's such a good song.

[01:12:12] And the, I didn't want to read the whole lyrics, but the first verse is bite my tongue, bide my time, wearing a warning sign.

[01:12:20] Wait till the world is mine, visions I vandalize, cold in my kingdom sighs, fell for these ocean eyes.

[01:12:30] So bite my tongue.

[01:12:32] He's got the sigil, bide my time.

[01:12:34] He's keeping the secret, wearing a warning sign.

[01:12:37] That could be anything.

[01:12:38] Wait till the world is mine.

[01:12:40] I mean, come on.

[01:12:41] It's like, it's such a perfect fit for this show.

[01:12:45] And I think this song predates the show.

[01:12:47] I think they found it.

[01:12:49] I don't think she wrote it for it, but it's fantastic.

[01:12:52] They used, I don't, if you guys watched Lock and Key on Netflix, that's the last time I remember this song being used and it really having an impact.

[01:13:01] I like this better.

[01:13:03] Yeah.

[01:13:03] Like this hit so perfectly.

[01:13:07] I had maybe taken a gummy when I watched this episode.

[01:13:11] And so when this part came on, I was like freaking out by myself.

[01:13:19] Oh, it's so good.

[01:13:23] That is awesome.

[01:13:24] So good.

[01:13:24] On that note, we're going to take a little break and we'll be back in a minute with some news.

[01:13:29] And we're back.

[01:13:33] There are a ton of articles on the internet about the show and speculations about the characters.

[01:13:41] I thought a lot of them were spoilers.

[01:13:43] So I didn't want to include them here.

[01:13:45] But I did find a couple of articles about the song.

[01:13:49] And you know how much we love the song.

[01:13:51] Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez, who wrote The Ballad of the Witches, wrote all the versions, have won two Oscars.

[01:13:59] One for Let It Go from Frozen and one for Remember Me from Coco.

[01:14:04] They have very long, very successful music careers.

[01:14:09] Robert Lopez has an EGOT.

[01:14:12] You know, they're just you couldn't ask for better songwriters for this for this job.

[01:14:18] They also wrote the Agatha All Along song that was such a hit out of WandaVision.

[01:14:23] And we have a couple of interviews with them.

[01:14:27] The first comes from comicbook.com.

[01:14:30] It is entitled Ballad of the Witches Road, Songwriters Talk Making Magic with a hit song by Nicole Drum.

[01:14:38] And it says,

[01:14:40] The Ballad of the Witches Road has already become a bona fide billboard hit.

[01:14:44] But the song written by Kristen Anderson Lopez and Robert Lopez, who are also behind WandaVision's Agatha All Along, isn't just a banger of a tune.

[01:14:53] The song also has strong ties to the plot of the series as well.

[01:14:56] Comic Book recently sat down with Anderson Lopez and Lopez to talk about the Ballad of the Witches Road to find out about how they made their own magic with the song.

[01:15:06] And if it turns out that the song not only had to combine elements of the story, it's so integral to the to it's so integral to with which lore and more.

[01:15:19] But the creators had a very creative way of figuring it all out.

[01:15:22] The duo explained that Lopez read the scripts of the series sent to them by creator Jack Schaefer out loud and acted out each role in the car while Anderson Lopez drove.

[01:15:32] Which is a great strategy, by the way.

[01:15:34] It's how I grade papers.

[01:15:35] Literally exactly that.

[01:15:37] That's hilarious.

[01:15:38] I read them out loud and act them out.

[01:15:39] Which is, I think, a great way to kind of internalize everything.

[01:15:44] So, fabulous.

[01:15:45] That's also how I would edit sometimes is to read aloud.

[01:15:48] You notice things you don't notice if you're just reading.

[01:15:51] And then we had talked with Jack a lot about the kind of song that they wanted it to be.

[01:15:56] And we all agreed that we were going to start with the 70s ballad, Lorna's.

[01:16:01] Because that one was kind of the most complex.

[01:16:04] And it also needed to sound like it was a number one hit.

[01:16:07] Which is a very daunting thing to be asked to write a 70s hit, Lopez said.

[01:16:11] So, we started there and we knew that there's these songs.

[01:16:15] You know, the Fleetwood Mac was one thing she tossed out in Hotel California.

[01:16:20] There was certainly like a type of song from that time period that cast the spell.

[01:16:26] And we wanted to do that.

[01:16:27] So, we really started with this vamp.

[01:16:30] And then Kristen went into her office, kind of locked the door, and laid everything out on her writing bed.

[01:16:35] Definitely got Fleetwood Mac vibes for sure.

[01:16:38] Oh, yeah.

[01:16:39] Stevie Nicks.

[01:16:40] I have a writing bed.

[01:16:42] And I had like three different screens up, a thesaurus, and like 10 pieces of paper with important plot points, dialogue, which research that needed to be brought into everything.

[01:16:52] And then I knew that I had to take all that but turn it into a love song that would have been a hit, Anderson Lopez said.

[01:16:58] So, what was fun was doing the puzzle of how I could take all of these words and all of these elements and have a through line.

[01:17:06] Which the through line of that song is a little bit of how scary it is to love somebody.

[01:17:10] How like you don't know if it's going to go foul or fair.

[01:17:14] And then we also had the fun of like knowing the bridge had to be a protection spell, that the bridge had to be this whole other element.

[01:17:23] That it was a very stream of consciousness.

[01:17:26] Yeah.

[01:17:27] Yeah.

[01:17:27] There's more to the article.

[01:17:28] As usual, it'll be in the show notes.

[01:17:31] And there's this other article about the song and an interview with Anderson Lopez.

[01:17:39] And the article is from The Wrap and it's Agatha All Along.

[01:17:42] Yes, more versions of The Ballad of the Witch's Road are on the way by Andy Ortiz.

[01:17:47] And I just pulled out this one little part.

[01:17:49] I think it's really important to pay attention to the differences, she said.

[01:17:53] What is that thing when in legal documents, when you get like a red line version?

[01:17:58] Kara, I pulled that out for you.

[01:18:00] You have to compare the old doc to the new doc.

[01:18:02] That's really where the secrets come in.

[01:18:04] It's like what's missing, what's added, what's changed.

[01:18:06] As it turns out, though, the Fleetwood Mac-esque version of the ballad came first.

[01:18:11] It took Anderson Lopez roughly six hours to write the whole thing and figure it out as a love song.

[01:18:17] Then for the sacred version, I had to strip away the love song.

[01:18:20] But I had already baked the sacred version into the love song with certain words, she explained.

[01:18:25] I was on a college tour with our oldest daughter and I couldn't go on the tour.

[01:18:29] So I was like in this balcony above this haunted forest at Vassar.

[01:18:34] That's my college.

[01:18:34] Which is, she says here, is an all-female school.

[01:18:38] It was an all-female school.

[01:18:41] It is now co-ed since 1969.

[01:18:43] But anyway.

[01:18:43] Which I think must have had witches at some point.

[01:18:46] Yes, there are lots of legends of witches at Vassar.

[01:18:49] The fall leaves were coming down and I had like old Wiccan texts also.

[01:18:53] The Oscar winner continued.

[01:18:55] I was just channeling the haunted forest and the sun going down and the Wiccan texts.

[01:18:59] And I just sort of pieced it all together.

[01:19:03] So interesting.

[01:19:05] I posted the article on a Vassar alumni group and asked like, where do you think she was that was a balcony overlooking a haunted forest?

[01:19:15] And I got a lot of responses from people.

[01:19:17] A lot of people just being like, I love that song.

[01:19:20] One person writing in, writing back to me like, the first episode was based on Mirror of Easttown.

[01:19:25] I'm like, oh, thank you.

[01:19:27] But the guesses as to where she might have been.

[01:19:29] Wait, wait, wait a second.

[01:19:31] Penny.

[01:19:32] Yeah.

[01:19:33] Are you kidding me?

[01:19:34] How did we?

[01:19:35] Oh, yeah.

[01:19:35] Wait.

[01:19:40] There's a dorm called Cushing Dorm.

[01:19:42] And on one side of it is a cemetery and like a sort of lightly forested area.

[01:19:48] So that's one guess.

[01:19:50] And another guess is this other dorm called Jewett that has a balcony that overlooks a patch of trees where there was a World War I French tank.

[01:19:59] I don't know why.

[01:20:01] And that could very well have been haunted.

[01:20:03] So those are the guesses I got from other Vassar alums.

[01:20:06] I just thought it was such a funny little connection to my college that I love so much.

[01:20:11] There was another article that I found, and it's really long, but it's very interesting.

[01:20:16] So we'll link it in the show notes, and it's written by Ariel Sudario about how the episode four and specifically the song,

[01:20:26] The Ballad of the Witch's Road, the protection spell version, really reminded her of the journey of immigrants,

[01:20:35] especially her own people, the Filipino immigrants to this country and her father's journey of how he had to work really hard, give up on his dreams,

[01:20:46] follow a path in order to get his family out of the Philippines and into the U.S. so that they could have a better life.

[01:20:52] And so he could protect them, even though it meant he had to be absent from them a lot.

[01:20:56] And so it's a little bit like Lorna's mother and how she had to be absent from her family, and she sacrificed her life in order to protect her daughter.

[01:21:04] It's a really moving article, so I'll link it in the show notes if people want to read it.

[01:21:09] It does sound good.

[01:21:11] It's worth a read.

[01:21:12] I do want to say the music.

[01:21:16] And it's funny, over the weekend, I was playing the music for my daughter, and she immediately said,

[01:21:23] Oh, Dad, is this a musical?

[01:21:27] And I was like, no, that's what everybody says.

[01:21:30] I said to her, I said, really, yeah, there's music that plays a part in it.

[01:21:34] There's an episode that's kind of centered around music.

[01:21:36] I said, but this song is really the only song that they sing.

[01:21:41] They just sing different versions of it.

[01:21:43] So I played her the three versions, the 70s version, the chant, and the – what was that episode that that gentleman –

[01:21:51] Oh, yes.

[01:21:51] The first version.

[01:21:52] The Mare of Easttown version.

[01:21:54] Oh, yeah, Mare of Easttown.

[01:21:56] Thank goodness we got that information today.

[01:22:02] And what amazes is the best way – a great lead into this show, if you just somehow found this podcast and are at this point now thinking, I haven't watched any of the other episodes.

[01:22:16] The fact that the attention they paid to these songs – I don't know that I've ever been a part of a show that wasn't a musical that has intertwined this music the way that they have into – I mean, the whole show is that music, even though it's not a musical.

[01:22:38] And as I've said many times, the best singer of the bunch is Patti LuPone, who has not yet had her chance to sing the song.

[01:22:49] And I can't – if they don't use her to sing the song at any point –

[01:22:55] Yeah, we need a Patti LuPone solo, definitely.

[01:22:58] So I just – it's amazing what they do with the music.

[01:23:03] And that is just sort of a cross-section of, I think, what every episode is, is a depth of detail, not only – I mean, as far as going from the cinematography, going to the props, going to, as we talked about in the past two episodes, the wardrobe that the cast is wearing, that they all have input into.

[01:23:24] This show – talk about getting a bang for its buck.

[01:23:28] I think unlike any other show that we've maybe ever covered for the MCU, this show definitely pays detail to that.

[01:23:36] And then the other little piece of news that I just wanted to throw in here is at the time of this recording, the New York City Comic-Con is happening this week.

[01:23:44] I think today is the 13th, and I believe it starts on the 15th or the 16th.

[01:23:51] Two people who are going to be esteemed guests at the Comic-Con, and I do believe that the two most prominent Marvel people, maybe the only Marvel people, are Paul Bettany, of course, who is going to be the star of Vision Quest and his former castmate.

[01:24:06] And I say former with quotes.

[01:24:10] Elizabeth Olsen is also going to be headlining one of the days there as well.

[01:24:14] So it just seems kind of weird that we're in Agatha and that she's going to show up to a show that she used to say – you know, to a character she used to say, you know, maybe I'm doing this too much.

[01:24:27] To just recently her saying, yeah, maybe if they find something good for me to do.

[01:24:31] Yeah.

[01:24:32] I think she's coming back.

[01:24:34] I've always thought she was coming back.

[01:24:35] It's too interesting of a character not to bring her back.

[01:24:38] I never in a million years thought she was going to come back in this show, and I still don't know that she is.

[01:24:46] But every episode that we get past, I start thinking more and more, there might be a chance.

[01:24:51] Maybe there's some room for Wanda, at least a little bit.

[01:24:55] So that brings us to our witchy question of the week.

[01:24:57] We got only one answer from our listeners, and that's Mark Kirkman, who said Rolling in the Deep by Adele.

[01:25:05] And I think that's an excellent, excellent choice of what song could also be a spell.

[01:25:12] I thought about this myself.

[01:25:13] I had a lot of answers, but I decided to pick a song I want to make into a spell.

[01:25:19] And that is a song called Phenomenal Woman by Laura Mvula.

[01:25:23] That's spelled M-V-U-L-A.

[01:25:25] And the first two verses go,

[01:25:39] In the second verse,

[01:25:54] So, I wish that on the women who are listening to this show.

[01:26:00] Do you guys have songs?

[01:26:02] Oh, yes.

[01:26:06] Mine is not nearly as good as that.

[01:26:08] Okay.

[01:26:13] Go ahead, Jeff.

[01:26:14] I'll go.

[01:26:14] I'll get mine out of the way, and I'll be bookended by the much more brilliant ladies that are on this episode.

[01:26:20] Listen, I have grown up a Beatles fan my whole entire life.

[01:26:26] And you can't be a Beatles fan without wrapping your head around the lore of the Beatles.

[01:26:32] And, you know, you talk about, you know, whether or not the Paul McCartney we have today is actually the Paul McCartney we had in the 60s.

[01:26:39] Because there are many people who feel like he died in a car accident.

[01:26:42] But the Beatles were, especially in the late 60s, for many, many reasons.

[01:26:48] They were a very experimental band.

[01:26:50] And one of the things that they did quite often was the same thing they did in episode four.

[01:26:55] And that is rewind or play things backwards.

[01:26:58] And my favorite is Revolution No. 9.

[01:27:01] If you ever listen to any of the Beatles songs, there's a segment of the song.

[01:27:06] First of all, their Revolution songs are fantastic.

[01:27:08] But in Revolution No. 9, if you play the part where they say No. 9 over and over, you play it backwards.

[01:27:17] It literally says, turn me on, dead man.

[01:27:20] It's clear as a bell.

[01:27:22] And it's just they kind of, I don't know what they were going through in the late 60s.

[01:27:29] A lot of drugs?

[01:27:30] Definitely.

[01:27:31] Drugs?

[01:27:31] Yeah.

[01:27:31] Well, yes.

[01:27:32] Well, yes.

[01:27:34] But the drugs certainly led them to a...

[01:27:39] It opened their minds.

[01:27:41] It opened their minds up to, I think, some of the things that we're talking about.

[01:27:45] Not only in this show, but...

[01:27:47] So it's very lucky that they were weaving that into their songs in some way.

[01:27:53] Yeah.

[01:27:54] So I just think to listen to the Beatles, especially the Beatles post...

[01:28:02] Post probably...

[01:28:03] Not...

[01:28:04] I'd say the...

[01:28:04] Starting with the White Album and beyond, I think...

[01:28:08] Yeah.

[01:28:08] To listen to their music is something that you need to do perhaps while having...

[01:28:15] While on drugs?

[01:28:16] Yeah.

[01:28:18] While having an open mind, let's say.

[01:28:21] Yes.

[01:28:21] Yes.

[01:28:22] Yes.

[01:28:22] Yes.

[01:28:23] Okay.

[01:28:23] Because I think their songs, much like the show, have a lot of depth to them.

[01:28:27] All right.

[01:28:28] Kara, what's your answer?

[01:28:31] I went all over the place.

[01:28:33] And I had...

[01:28:34] Like you, I had multiple answers.

[01:28:36] But ultimately, I had to go with one of my favorite Taylor Swift songs.

[01:28:42] I knew it.

[01:28:42] I knew it was going to be a Taylor Swift song.

[01:28:44] I had to.

[01:28:45] Well, I think a lot of people associate Taylor Swift with her radio hits and some of her older

[01:28:51] music that's very poppy and bubblegum-y, even though the lyrics are brilliant.

[01:28:56] But anyway, a couple of her more recent albums have some really good kind of folksy, witchy

[01:29:03] vibes to them.

[01:29:04] And on the most recent one, on the anthology of the Tortured Poets Department, there's a

[01:29:11] song called The Albatross, which is one of my absolute favorites.

[01:29:15] And I thought that would make the perfect spell.

[01:29:18] And particularly, the second verse of the song and the chorus, I think, would be perfect.

[01:29:24] And they're not that long, so I'll just read them really quick.

[01:29:27] The second verse starts off with,

[01:29:48] And I was just like, that would be such an ominous spell.

[01:29:55] I love it.

[01:29:56] I love it.

[01:29:56] It would be so perfect.

[01:30:00] I had to choose Taylor Swift.

[01:30:01] We'll list our choices, our three choices in the show notes.

[01:30:05] So if people want to go look up those songs, they can.

[01:30:08] We have one piece of listener feedback from our friend Mark Kirkman.

[01:30:13] I wanted to mention that Mark has his own podcast called Panels to Pixels, and they are also

[01:30:20] covering Agatha all along.

[01:30:21] And he has teamed up with our friend Becky, who is a huge contributor to the Still Slaying

[01:30:27] podcast.

[01:30:28] And because we're doing this one, I haven't been listening to theirs.

[01:30:32] But once we're done, I'm going to.

[01:30:34] So I hope that it's going great for them, and I'm glad that Mark wrote in to us.

[01:30:39] Kara, do you want to read it for us?

[01:30:41] Sure.

[01:30:41] So Mark says,

[01:30:42] This episode was what I was waiting for.

[01:30:44] We finally get a reveal of who the boy is.

[01:30:47] I've been saying it all along.

[01:30:49] I see what you did there, Mark.

[01:30:51] Since the show started with Wanda Maximoff's body and Agatha being a detective stuck in

[01:30:56] a spell.

[01:30:56] We finally have confirmation that the boy is indeed Wiccan, one of Wanda's twin sons that

[01:31:03] she made within Westview.

[01:31:04] He attached himself to Agatha and now will be a character within the MCU.

[01:31:10] I look forward to what we get coming to us now.

[01:31:13] I'm still waiting on Aubrey Plaza's character, Rio Vidal, to be Mephisto's elusive scheme

[01:31:18] to use against Agatha or to use her to have Agatha join him in his plan.

[01:31:24] Not sure what the plan is, though.

[01:31:26] It would have been interesting if they used Franklin Richards, Sue and Reed Richards' son

[01:31:30] from the Fantastic Four in the show.

[01:31:32] But I think it would have been a too early introduction of another nexus being within

[01:31:38] the MCU.

[01:31:39] Maybe we get a rebirth of Wanda through Wiccan within the show and we get back Elizabeth Olsen

[01:31:45] as Wanda Maximoff again.

[01:31:47] Nuff said from Mark Kirkman.

[01:31:49] A lot of that was, not gonna lie, gibberish to me.

[01:31:53] I don't know what a lot of those words means because I'm still new.

[01:31:57] But it sounded really good, Mark.

[01:31:59] We talked a little bit about Mephisto possibly being part of the story here, maybe the big

[01:32:06] bad or maybe a cameo from him.

[01:32:09] And in the comics, Agatha is the nanny for Franklin Richards.

[01:32:16] Sue and Reed Richards are the sort of first family of Marvel.

[01:32:22] They are in the Fantastic Four and there's a Fantastic Four movie coming soon with Reed Richards

[01:32:30] played by our beloved Pedro Pascal.

[01:32:34] And Jack Schaefer has had a hand in writing the Fantastic Four movie, I think.

[01:32:40] So I'll watch it.

[01:32:42] There's some connections there.

[01:32:44] We're all very excited about it.

[01:32:45] Well, yeah, Franklin.

[01:32:47] Franklin Richards is one of the most powerful beings in Marvel comics.

[01:32:54] So we probably are heading there at some point.

[01:32:57] Is he more well known than Wiccan?

[01:33:03] I mean, and I think they're probably kind of similar.

[01:33:08] I think they're probably parallel.

[01:33:10] I think I think probably more people my age read Fantastic Four and probably know more about

[01:33:19] Franklin Richards.

[01:33:20] I think probably more people your age are more familiar with the young adventure, young

[01:33:26] Avengers and Wiccan.

[01:33:27] So I it's actually a very interesting parallel.

[01:33:31] You probably have a podcast on.

[01:33:32] But but yeah, Franklin Richards, of course, is connected to Kang.

[01:33:35] So he initially was going to be part of that storyline.

[01:33:38] And but I all of them are connected to Mephisto and which we didn't even talk about today.

[01:33:45] I'm fairly proud of that.

[01:33:47] Yeah.

[01:33:48] All right.

[01:33:49] That's our show.

[01:33:51] Next time, episode six.

[01:33:53] And as of now, I don't think we know the title for that.

[01:33:56] If you want to join the conversation, you can email or send a voice memo to Agatha at podcastica.com.

[01:34:03] And we'll put feedback posts up on the podcastica Facebook page as well.

[01:34:08] You can also find us at podcastica.com.

[01:34:12] And while you're there, of course, look around and check out our other shows of which we have many.

[01:34:19] Just today, I had to get caught up on The Last of Us, which is covering Daryl Dixon.

[01:34:25] I just watched Moulin Rouge from episode two of that episode two, season two of that series.

[01:34:31] And it's amazing how much I think I know about the show and how much the podcast always changes my mind.

[01:34:42] Yeah, it's pretty fantastic.

[01:34:44] So I, yeah, I just highly recommend, always highly recommend The Last of Us podcast.

[01:34:52] The cast of us.

[01:34:53] It is always a good old reliant.

[01:34:55] For The Last of Us, yes.

[01:34:57] Yes.

[01:34:57] And for all of the other shows that are our headline show, I guess.

[01:35:02] Yeah.

[01:35:02] Rufus is barking in the background because he wants me to tell you clearly that I've been enjoying listening to what is Fromcast with Alex and Lizzie and their coverage on season three of From, which has been absolutely fantastic so far.

[01:35:18] Yeah.

[01:35:18] I just got caught up.

[01:35:20] And so now I can start.

[01:35:22] I've only listened to episode one of the season three coverage on the podcast, so I can listen to two and three now.

[01:35:29] And I'm pretty excited about it.

[01:35:31] So much fun.

[01:35:32] It's so painful to me that this is a family show and we only watch it together as a family.

[01:35:37] And right now we're in two different states.

[01:35:40] Oh, so you're behind.

[01:35:41] Oh, so I have not watched a second of it.

[01:35:44] And every time Penny talks about it, she gets me so excited about the show.

[01:35:49] And I did, however, watch a little bit of a reaction show just so I could see that.

[01:35:56] But anyways, yeah.

[01:35:57] No spoilers.

[01:35:58] We won't spoil it for you.

[01:36:01] So thanks for listening, everybody.

[01:36:03] And until next time.

[01:36:06] I'm Kara.

[01:36:07] I'm Jim.

[01:36:09] And I'm Penny.

[01:36:11] Get with you with it.

[01:36:40] Get with.

[01:36:44] Oh, crap.

[01:36:46] Do it again.

[01:36:50] Go with that one.

[01:36:53] My words got stuck in my mouth.

[01:36:55] One for the blooper reel.

[01:36:57] Yeah.

[01:36:57] Yeah.

[01:36:59] Okay.

[01:37:00] Okay.