85: “Death’s Hand in Mine” (Agatha All Along S1E7)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah!

[00:00:06] Hmm...

[00:00:43] If she got the card right, why doesn't the ceiling stop?

[00:00:46] What's missing?

[00:00:51] Way of Pentacles.

[00:00:56] Collaboration.

[00:00:57] Community.

[00:00:58] Singular voices waiting to harmonize.

[00:01:01] I needed you.

[00:01:03] My covenant.

[00:01:37] Welcome to the Marvel TV cast from Quadcaster.

[00:01:40] I'm Penny.

[00:01:41] And I'm Jim, and today we're going to be talking about Agatha all along.

[00:01:45] Season 1, episode 7, Death's Hand and Mine.

[00:01:50] What an episode.

[00:01:51] What an episode.

[00:01:52] I'm so excited to talk.

[00:01:54] My God.

[00:01:57] So the first time I watched it, I got to the end, and I was completely sort of emotionally overcome with both the content and the sort of beauty of how the episode came together.

[00:02:12] And then that song came on that is a song I already have emotions about.

[00:02:18] And it was so perfectly suited to the ending of the episode that I just laid down on the couch and let the credits roll and listen to the song.

[00:02:30] And then immediately after that was done, I had my Alexa play it over and over and over again because I was just so in a moment.

[00:02:38] That song.

[00:02:39] Yeah.

[00:02:40] They're very manipulative.

[00:02:42] Jack Schaefer.

[00:02:44] Yeah.

[00:02:45] Because you're right.

[00:02:49] The moment.

[00:02:50] There were multiple moments at the end of this, I think, that were emotionally sort of draining.

[00:02:58] Of course, the moment.

[00:03:01] I mean, there's like five right in a row for me that kind of started me down this path.

[00:03:06] The moment of her saying goodbye to everybody.

[00:03:08] The moment of her falling.

[00:03:10] The moment of her echoing black.

[00:03:13] And then the moment of her running up and starting the lesson that we just got to watch kind of in completion.

[00:03:20] Told in a very manic way.

[00:03:23] Not manic.

[00:03:23] That's not the right word.

[00:03:24] But told in a very unique way.

[00:03:27] And then.

[00:03:28] So you're like sitting there holding onto your seat, probably crying.

[00:03:31] And then that song comes on.

[00:03:34] Are you kidding me?

[00:03:36] Oh, beautifully done.

[00:03:38] So beautifully done.

[00:03:38] I'm done by Jack Schaefer has seriously become like a master craftsman with this.

[00:03:45] She's taken everything that she's learned throughout her career and thrown it into this series.

[00:03:50] And I think I.

[00:03:53] This is episode seven.

[00:03:55] Like it's not even the end.

[00:03:56] So where are we going?

[00:03:58] What could possibly be coming?

[00:04:00] I.

[00:04:02] I was so emotionally.

[00:04:06] Sort of wrapped up in the episode that normally when I'm prepping for a podcast, right?

[00:04:12] I.

[00:04:12] I watched the episode the first time without taking notes through it.

[00:04:16] I try to just absorb the total impact of the episode.

[00:04:20] And then what usually happens is when it's over, I have like five or six thoughts I write down right away.

[00:04:25] Of like, what were the big things that I took away from the episode that I that I think are sort of the main things.

[00:04:32] And.

[00:04:33] I couldn't write anything down.

[00:04:36] I was like, it was it was what it was.

[00:04:38] It just is.

[00:04:39] It's like.

[00:04:40] And I was like, all right, I'll have something to say after second watch.

[00:04:44] It'll be fine.

[00:04:44] And then after second watch.

[00:04:48] The things that I wrote down were like.

[00:04:52] The power of women.

[00:04:54] Like they weren't.

[00:04:56] It wasn't like the normal kind of stuff I say about an episode.

[00:05:00] I didn't have any desire to go through the details and sort of pull out like interesting observations or anything.

[00:05:06] Everything I thought and felt about the episode was about the impact it had on me, the themes and the the the way the sort of magic of storytelling, the way that everything came together in this in this tidy and yet messy hole.

[00:05:27] That was so beautiful.

[00:05:28] Yeah.

[00:05:29] I so it immediately.

[00:05:34] Reminded me when I had gotten done processing it, it immediately reminded me of another one of my favorite episodes of television.

[00:05:45] I don't know if you you'll remember this, I'm pretty sure.

[00:05:48] But in Lost, which is one of my top five shows, there was an episode.

[00:05:55] In season four or five, and I can't remember off the top of my head, I think it was.

[00:05:59] Or where Desmond was flying to on a helicopter through and without really getting into the plot of that show, they were coming off of an island that was was messing with time already.

[00:06:15] And when he was flying through on the helicopter, he all of the sudden started going on this episode journey of time jumps.

[00:06:25] And it was a journey in which like death was certainly a part of it.

[00:06:29] And I just I would I what I what I love about the show is that like you.

[00:06:40] And probably everybody else, which is why it continues to gain momentum.

[00:06:44] It makes me think of lots of other things in all of the best ways.

[00:06:49] It makes me think of other shows.

[00:06:53] I mean, I think Jack Schaefer obviously had some homages when she put this one together like she does it seemingly in all of the shows.

[00:07:01] But there's a depth again to every episode and not the same kind of depth.

[00:07:09] She's got several cauldrons going at once and she's dipping into each of them.

[00:07:14] And they're not the same at all.

[00:07:17] Like this episode with with the time jumps and the time skips that we've been seeing from the time that the first second that we meet her and we get to see all of that.

[00:07:28] We've woven together the difference between that episode of Lost.

[00:07:32] Lost and the episode that we have here is that this was a tie completely tying together moment where we get to see everything that we've already been seeing and speculating on all put together in this beautiful story that is not put together at all until the end.

[00:07:54] And I can't having watched it multiple times.

[00:07:58] I still can't quite.

[00:08:02] I you have to be a special.

[00:08:08] She has to be so.

[00:08:10] I just don't know how you can sit down and even tell this story, because as a viewer, it's so hard to wrap your head around it, because every time you watch, I'm like, oh, that goes there.

[00:08:20] Oh, my gosh, that goes there.

[00:08:21] But there she was this way and there she was that way.

[00:08:24] And it's all heading towards the end.

[00:08:25] And then you get to the end and it goes back to the beginning.

[00:08:29] And then I started asking myself a whole bunch of other questions, but they were all very satisfying questions.

[00:08:35] They weren't questions that even need answered at this point, because all the questions we needed answered got answered.

[00:08:41] And that not only that, but Lillia, who we'll talk about high priestess in a little bit, who maybe in some ways was the high priestess up to this point.

[00:08:55] But we can talk about that.

[00:08:56] Lillia, like.

[00:09:00] Lillia, like.

[00:09:02] Is.

[00:09:03] Kind of leads us through all of this and then figures it all out and we figure out what we need.

[00:09:08] But then she sends us off with new questions for the next two.

[00:09:11] Episodes, which are going to be coming up here very shortly.

[00:09:14] It's just brilliant storytelling.

[00:09:15] I don't know how anyone can wrap up as much as she wrapped up in this episode.

[00:09:20] And so satisfyingly with still so many questions left to answer that we now know will definitely get answered because we're slowly starting to filter out the things that are in our way to.

[00:09:33] Keep us from getting to the end of the path, which is really the ultimate story of the show is where they go.

[00:09:40] And we've gotten some very satisfying endings.

[00:09:44] And I say that with little quote marks because I don't know what if we really have any endings yet.

[00:09:49] But I do think that what a beautiful way to tell a story.

[00:09:53] What a beautiful.

[00:09:54] I could not wait for this this episode.

[00:09:57] I think the only disappointing thing for me was that we still haven't yet gotten to hear Patti LuPone sing the version of the road.

[00:10:05] The Witch's Road, which which I assumed we would see.

[00:10:08] But I was not.

[00:10:09] I that's I didn't get to that to like my third viewing.

[00:10:12] So just I very satisfying episode.

[00:10:15] Again, my favorite episode, which I've said for every episode that we've watched.

[00:10:19] But it seemed much of the series seemed to be building to this episode with all the other unanswered questions leading, of course, towards our final two, which we'll get the day before Halloween.

[00:10:30] Just one of my favorite pieces of television that I've watched this year.

[00:10:33] Far and away.

[00:10:35] Yeah, I I've been really enjoying the social media.

[00:10:39] Social media response to the show.

[00:10:41] And it's been building.

[00:10:44] And, you know, the ones that really entertained me first were after Sharon's death.

[00:10:51] There were a bunch of people who were responding with like, I'm so sad that Sharon died.

[00:10:55] But then the ending credits were this banging song that made me want to like stand up and dance.

[00:11:00] You know, the yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.

[00:11:02] Heads will roll.

[00:11:02] That song does.

[00:11:03] It bangs.

[00:11:04] Right.

[00:11:05] And and people being like, I'm how can I be so sad and also want to dance to this song about heads rolling like this show is doing something to me.

[00:11:13] And then, you know, the just explosion of reactions to the sexual chemistry between Rio and Agatha and the complete glee of the LGBTQ community at how gay this show is.

[00:11:32] Like just the energy of it, the unapologeticness of the gay storylines, the way that it just is.

[00:11:39] Like the fact that these women were in a relationship before isn't the point of the story that they're women.

[00:11:45] The point is that they're these powerful, magical entities.

[00:11:50] And like that's delightful.

[00:11:52] The fact that teen keeps trying to be like, I'm the queer one and everyone's like, get in line.

[00:11:57] We're all the queer ones.

[00:11:58] Like that's fun.

[00:12:00] I love the dynamic between like a young gay teenager and these like old women who have taken him under their wing.

[00:12:09] That's adorable.

[00:12:10] There's all these things.

[00:12:11] And social media has been responding to all of these things.

[00:12:13] People are loving Joe Locke.

[00:12:15] People all along have been like, there's got to be some greatness coming for Lilia because it's Patti LuPone.

[00:12:22] You don't cast Patti LuPone unless you have something great for her to do.

[00:12:26] And this is the episode where they did.

[00:12:28] And the social media response to this episode, there's been a lot of videos of people just crying with the show running on the TV screen behind them.

[00:12:39] And I'm like, yeah, that's a valid response.

[00:12:42] That's completely valid.

[00:12:45] There's been a lot of people angry that Lilia dies at the end or apparently dies at the end.

[00:12:55] There's been a lot of joy at the fact that people now think Lilia lives forever because she's in a like 500 year time loop.

[00:13:02] And she's just going to live her life over and over again.

[00:13:05] And people are sort of like, we never lose Lilia.

[00:13:07] That's great.

[00:13:08] And just the energy of the responses on social media has been amazing.

[00:13:15] I don't normally spend a lot of time looking at other people's responses to shows on social media,

[00:13:22] but the Agatha content has just been so joyful.

[00:13:24] I think for women who are, you know, above the age of 40 and for gay people,

[00:13:34] this is what we've been wanting for so long.

[00:13:40] It's not a serious show about being gay, right?

[00:13:56] It's not like a drama about the horrors of aging or any of the stuff that normally people in those categories have to make shows about.

[00:14:05] It's fun and it's colorful and the aesthetics of it are gorgeous.

[00:14:17] Yes.

[00:14:19] And Jack Schaefer, to find space for all of these characters, I mean, this was Lilia's story.

[00:14:25] But again, and we've said this in other episodes, you have, you know, Jen's storyline where you have Sashir Zamata,

[00:14:39] who I'll just go ahead and say it for me with Joe Locke is like the breakout star.

[00:14:45] Sashir Zamata is such, is such a, she has been, the fact that she can be such a comedic actress and then serious and convey that with her face,

[00:14:58] like her facials in this series have been amazing, especially in this episode.

[00:15:03] We get her, her, we get her story as she's the path forward.

[00:15:07] So, but she plays such an important role.

[00:15:10] We get Joe Locke's character and Agatha in this, Teen and Agatha, Billy and Agatha,

[00:15:20] who are intermixed in this very intriguing storyline.

[00:15:24] And we get to see them have very meaty parts to the show.

[00:15:30] We get little flashbacks to, you know, all of our other, as we sort of figure out the roles that each of our, our coven gets to play.

[00:15:40] Um, it, it just rare that you find show and the show was about Lilia to boot.

[00:15:47] And where do you find a show that can give that kind of space?

[00:15:51] Or you have actors that can give each other that kind of space as these actors clearly do.

[00:15:58] It's, it's a, this, the shows that, that mean the most to me in life are the shows that find balance.

[00:16:05] And I think when, if you really get down to the root of like a show like Lost, why people are frustrated by a show, even though they still love it.

[00:16:12] It's when show, when Lost was great, there was balance.

[00:16:15] And when Lost wasn't great, there was imbalance of all the weight of all the things that they were trying to answer or not answer,

[00:16:21] or at least explained to us that they weren't going to answer it and why.

[00:16:24] Whereas this show is very balanced.

[00:16:28] It's very balanced in who it, in what it is.

[00:16:31] And these characters are very balanced in who they are.

[00:16:34] And you get to see that in every episode, that they aren't just, you know, we were speculating early on if there was going to be a big bad in this and who it would be.

[00:16:44] And this show is, it's not rooted down in that at all.

[00:16:48] It's a Marvel series that's rooted more in really the big bads, it seems like, in each episode are themselves and who they've become or who they are being.

[00:17:01] And this battle, this internal battles, I start to understand a little more about what each episode was.

[00:17:09] Because, so this episode, to break it down just to the simple, what they're doing on the road, it's Lilia's story.

[00:17:17] We're in Lilia's, the castle or whatever you want to call it, that she was in, that we get to see bits of in earlier episodes where she was being trained on how to be a witch.

[00:17:33] And so it's her episode, and everything inside that episode is something bad.

[00:17:38] And if you go back and you look at all of the other episodes of all the other trials, that cabin for Agatha, which I now do believe was her trial.

[00:17:48] I believe that cabin was probably where they met as a coven in the 1600s, that's my guess.

[00:17:57] Just loaded full of 80s stuff that she didn't like.

[00:18:00] And that might be the teen part of it.

[00:18:05] Jen in her house, like that, I don't know, that kind of yuppie home that she didn't like, that was her trial.

[00:18:15] And then Alice's trial was in her mom's recording studio, and a painful place for her to be.

[00:18:23] So I'm starting to understand this show, and it's so, again, rare that, and I don't know if it was baked into the show, if that was the goal.

[00:18:34] But the end result is that the fact that I can understand more about previous shows, or previous episodes, from the current episode, is amazing.

[00:18:44] It's, I definitely believe it was planned to be that way.

[00:18:48] We're supposed to be confused about certain things until we're not.

[00:18:52] And then the main storylines, I mean, we want to get to the end.

[00:18:58] But truth be told, there's never been a week where that's been important.

[00:19:03] Every episode has...

[00:19:05] Yeah, I don't really...

[00:19:06] Go ahead.

[00:19:07] Week to week, I don't really care about the ending of the series.

[00:19:13] I mean, obviously, I know we're going to get there, and that the show's going to end, and there's going to be some big thing.

[00:19:18] But each individual episode has been so satisfying in and of itself that I don't care where we're going next.

[00:19:27] I'm excited for each next episode because the one that we've just finished has been so good.

[00:19:32] But I'm not, like, invested in any particular ending.

[00:19:36] I don't have, like, I want this to happen for Agatha.

[00:19:39] I want this to happen for Teen.

[00:19:41] It's like, oh my God, where is Jack Schaefer taking us?

[00:19:46] It's so worth going there.

[00:19:47] I don't need to know where it is.

[00:19:50] I completely trust her to take me somewhere worth going.

[00:19:58] I agree with you that what has sort of been revealed...

[00:20:01] It's a little bit like the show is also like Lillia's mind, and we experience it out of sequence because we saw it from one time perspective, right?

[00:20:11] We watched episode one, then episode two, then episode three.

[00:20:14] But our understanding of it is out of sequence because only after seeing each episode can things from previous episodes make sense, and they fall into place.

[00:20:22] And so it's a little bit like we're all Lillia, like, skipping back through time and filling in the gaps.

[00:20:29] And I was so taken with the artistry of that and the way that each episode was satisfying already.

[00:20:41] And then filling in these gaps as we got more story from Lillia and each episode as we get more story about each of the women and it makes the previous episodes more meaningful has added new layers of satisfaction on them.

[00:20:55] But they were satisfying in and of themselves to begin with.

[00:20:59] It's a remarkable narrative structural accomplishment that is happening here.

[00:21:07] I was trying to explain it to a friend yesterday.

[00:21:11] I think I might have scared her off.

[00:21:13] But anyway, I was comparing it to why I love the miniseries Chernobyl so much.

[00:21:21] And people are always shocked when they hear that not only did I love Chernobyl, but I watched it five times in a row.

[00:21:28] And they're always like, you did what?

[00:21:30] I mean, it's like bleak and depressing.

[00:21:32] What are you doing?

[00:21:33] And I'm like, it's not bleak and depressing.

[00:21:35] The story is bleak and depressing, but the show, because of the way they structured it, is about problem solving and people solving problems.

[00:21:47] And also because of the way they structured it, it's a time loop.

[00:21:51] Because the disaster happens in the first episode.

[00:21:55] And then the main characters solve problems in episodes two through four.

[00:22:01] And then in episode five, there's a trial where all kinds of stuff gets explained and you loop right back around to the first episode and fill in the gaps.

[00:22:10] And so I found it very satisfying to watch over and over again because I was like, oh, I see how they filled in that gap.

[00:22:15] Oh, I see how they filled in that gap.

[00:22:17] And I, at the time, thought it was like the pinnacle of screenwriting.

[00:22:23] And it's Craig Mason, and I'm never going to stop praising him.

[00:22:28] I think he is an unbelievable writer.

[00:22:30] But I think Jack Schaefer, God, Jack Schaefer and Craig Mason should team up.

[00:22:35] Because between the two of them, they have an understanding of linear, nonlinear storytelling that is remarkable.

[00:22:45] And they could, like, change the world.

[00:22:48] Like, I would put them in charge of governments.

[00:22:50] I love these people.

[00:22:52] The power of telling a story that is entertaining, informative, inspiring, emotional, and also that is unconventional in its structure is transformative.

[00:23:12] Kind of like the tower reversed.

[00:23:14] It is a magical transformation.

[00:23:17] And it does something to its audience as well.

[00:23:20] There's a sort of film theory belief that there's, like, sort of four basic categories that audiovisual storytelling can fall into.

[00:23:29] There's conventional story, conventional format.

[00:23:33] Unconventional story or ideas, conventional format.

[00:23:38] Unconventional format, conventional storytelling or ideas.

[00:23:41] And then unconventional storytelling, unconventional ideas.

[00:23:44] And I think Agatha is in that fourth category, the most powerful, most subversive category.

[00:23:50] While having this veneer over the top of it of, like, Halloween spooky fun, Marvel Universe superheroes that makes it so palatable.

[00:24:00] But what you don't realize is that it's rewiring your brain.

[00:24:04] Like, telling an unconventional story in a conventional way can introduce new ideas to some people.

[00:24:11] But when you have unconventional storytelling and unconventional ideas tied together in this way, it literally rewires people's brains to accept new ideas.

[00:24:24] And I feel like I want to show Agatha all along to every homophobic person I know.

[00:24:30] And be like, just watch it.

[00:24:32] And maybe by the end, you won't be homophobic anymore.

[00:24:36] Maybe.

[00:24:38] It's interesting.

[00:24:42] We've talked about this in other podcasts that we've done together.

[00:24:45] I think the best of Buffy, for example, is what you just explained.

[00:24:50] Unconventional storytelling.

[00:24:54] I think, you know, obviously in a series that has that many episodes, you have your ups and your downs.

[00:25:00] Even though in a nine episode arc, I think I would say this about WandaVision.

[00:25:06] Because WandaVision very much fits that definition as well.

[00:25:09] But there are some minor ups and downs in that series.

[00:25:16] This series to me, and I don't know how else to explain it other than to say, wow, this was my favorite episode.

[00:25:26] Like I've said in every other podcast that we've done about this one.

[00:25:30] I don't know that this episode was better than the other episodes.

[00:25:35] It just made all of the other episodes more rich.

[00:25:40] More fulfilling.

[00:25:43] And the standard of excellence for each episode has been, you know, I don't know.

[00:25:49] And I don't really like IMDB ratings or even Rotten Tomato ratings.

[00:25:52] But for me, these are all like in the realm of nine to ten.

[00:25:57] And I think but I could see where somebody might say, oh, this one was eight.

[00:26:02] This one was 8.2.

[00:26:03] This one was 8.4.

[00:26:05] Because we're now like in the realms to me of like 9.8 to 10.

[00:26:09] Like this episode.

[00:26:09] I don't know how you could make a better episode of television.

[00:26:14] I wouldn't give it a 10 out of 10 simply because we still haven't reached the pinnacle of the series.

[00:26:20] So there.

[00:26:20] But as a standalone episode, I don't know that you can do a better episode of television because of that unconventional storytelling.

[00:26:27] It deals with all of the narrative that we've been talking about in every other episode.

[00:26:34] There are some great lines in here to let you know that these characters are LGBTQ plus characters without it being a major part of the story.

[00:26:44] They used humor to do it in both cases that I can think of off the top of my head, but not making fun of it.

[00:26:50] Just the kind of humor you have when you're sitting with friends.

[00:26:56] And I was talking to you before the show about how my linear way of thinking made me want to like record this episode and then pull out all of the parts and put them together so that I could see the linear.

[00:27:10] But here's the problem with that.

[00:27:12] It's the same problem when somebody comes up to me and says, what order should you watch the Star Wars movies?

[00:27:20] Should you start at one and go through through nine?

[00:27:23] And I always say no to that because.

[00:27:26] What made part of what made four or five and six so great spoiler alert, if you haven't seen Star Wars, that's on you.

[00:27:33] What made four or five and six great for us old timers is that the.

[00:27:42] Leading up to the middle of Empire Strikes Back, nobody had a clue that Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker's father.

[00:27:51] And if you watch one, two and three.

[00:27:55] Before you watch four or five and six, that mystery is gone.

[00:27:59] And as I was kind of pondering, putting this together in a linear way, I realized that.

[00:28:05] The key to this episode isn't the linear it being nonlinear.

[00:28:09] The key to this episode is when we get to see all these parts.

[00:28:15] We're kind of winding back to the beginning of things like we don't see Lily fall through the mud with Jen until near the end of the episode.

[00:28:26] And that was the episode where she was with her teacher.

[00:28:32] Learning.

[00:28:34] How to control.

[00:28:36] These time jumps.

[00:28:37] In her brain.

[00:28:39] And there is a scene.

[00:28:40] How to.

[00:28:41] It wasn't about controlling them.

[00:28:44] No.

[00:28:44] It was about.

[00:28:45] Understanding.

[00:28:45] Being open to what they show.

[00:28:47] Yes.

[00:28:47] Yeah.

[00:28:47] Seeing them.

[00:28:48] Well, I, I, I do.

[00:28:50] I do think.

[00:28:53] That.

[00:28:55] When she could read the tea leaves.

[00:28:57] Talk about taking a phrase that we use in everyday life and turning into something much deeper.

[00:29:03] When she looks through the tea leaves and we see her falling through the mud and.

[00:29:09] You see that character start to realize that she might be able to foresee some of this stuff coming.

[00:29:14] Which gave her.

[00:29:17] The control that we start to see in that lat the last third of the show.

[00:29:21] Not even the last third the last five to ten minutes.

[00:29:25] Her.

[00:29:26] Whole demeanor changes from.

[00:29:29] Somebody who was wispy.

[00:29:31] And maybe a little kooky.

[00:29:33] To someone who was.

[00:29:35] A powerhouse.

[00:29:38] Someone who.

[00:29:40] Nobody was taking serious.

[00:29:43] Because she.

[00:29:46] Purposefully.

[00:29:47] Does what so many of us do in our own lives.

[00:29:50] When things are troubling us.

[00:29:51] We hide it under a map.

[00:29:54] As a child.

[00:29:56] She used to.

[00:29:56] Go through these little time jumps.

[00:29:58] When she was learning how to do it.

[00:30:00] And then she.

[00:30:01] Hit it away because of.

[00:30:03] Of death.

[00:30:04] And we get to see her.

[00:30:06] Embrace that part of her life.

[00:30:08] Life.

[00:30:10] And in doing so.

[00:30:11] She turns from that kind of scattered.

[00:30:14] Witch that we saw throughout.

[00:30:16] To somebody who.

[00:30:18] Embraces her power.

[00:30:19] At the end of the episode.

[00:30:21] I.

[00:30:21] You can't watch it linear.

[00:30:23] Because it won't make any sense.

[00:30:24] Because you'll see her at the beginning.

[00:30:26] Acting in a way that you really shouldn't see until the end.

[00:30:29] And.

[00:30:30] Yeah.

[00:30:31] It just was.

[00:30:31] You can't.

[00:30:33] You can't.

[00:30:34] The.

[00:30:34] How you balance and juggle that as a storyteller.

[00:30:38] Is.

[00:30:39] Is.

[00:30:40] Is.

[00:30:41] Why.

[00:30:42] I can never be a Jack Schafer.

[00:30:44] That.

[00:30:44] I don't know that many people can see it in that way.

[00:30:47] And tell such a great story.

[00:30:49] And.

[00:30:50] Hopefully.

[00:30:51] And direct.

[00:30:51] How they directed.

[00:30:53] Patti LuPone.

[00:30:54] And how she got her head around.

[00:30:58] Her own character's trajectory.

[00:31:03] And arc.

[00:31:05] Out of phase with everyone else's.

[00:31:07] And with the overall story.

[00:31:09] And how she could keep that clear in her head.

[00:31:11] And act her way through it.

[00:31:13] In a way that was.

[00:31:14] Never once not believable to me.

[00:31:16] There was no moment where I was like.

[00:31:18] Oh.

[00:31:19] This isn't how she would be feeling in that moment.

[00:31:22] Or.

[00:31:22] That doesn't seem quite right.

[00:31:24] There were actually in this episode.

[00:31:25] A couple of moments where I thought.

[00:31:27] That Catherine Han was a little off.

[00:31:30] But at no point.

[00:31:32] Did I think Patti LuPone.

[00:31:33] Did not have a 100% grasp.

[00:31:36] On.

[00:31:37] Lilia.

[00:31:38] And her.

[00:31:40] Her version of the timeline.

[00:31:42] And.

[00:31:43] And how that was not the same as everyone else's.

[00:31:46] She was totally in control of her own performance.

[00:31:49] It was.

[00:31:49] It was phenomenal.

[00:31:51] I also thought.

[00:31:52] This year.

[00:31:53] Zomada did a great job.

[00:31:54] Of showing.

[00:31:55] How she is.

[00:31:57] Like.

[00:31:57] She comes across as sarcastic.

[00:31:59] Even when she's trying.

[00:32:00] Not trying to be.

[00:32:01] Like.

[00:32:01] When she was like.

[00:32:02] Tell me what else to see.

[00:32:03] No.

[00:32:03] I mean it.

[00:32:03] I mean.

[00:32:04] Tell me what else to see.

[00:32:05] I was like.

[00:32:06] Oh.

[00:32:07] I identify with you so much in this moment.

[00:32:09] Because the number of times.

[00:32:10] I've asked somebody a question.

[00:32:12] And they take it as me.

[00:32:14] Like.

[00:32:15] Mocking them.

[00:32:16] Or.

[00:32:16] Saying they're stupid.

[00:32:18] Or.

[00:32:19] You know.

[00:32:20] Questioning their authority.

[00:32:21] And I'm like.

[00:32:21] No.

[00:32:22] I.

[00:32:22] I literally want you to help me understand you.

[00:32:25] And.

[00:32:26] It was a real problem for me.

[00:32:27] In my early education years.

[00:32:29] Because.

[00:32:29] I can't tell you how many teachers sent me to the principal's office.

[00:32:32] For asking what I thought was a legitimate question.

[00:32:35] And they'd be like.

[00:32:36] She's always back talking.

[00:32:37] And then.

[00:32:38] I would explain.

[00:32:39] Well.

[00:32:39] I wanted to know why this is like that.

[00:32:41] And the principal would be like.

[00:32:43] Maybe it's your tone.

[00:32:44] You know.

[00:32:45] Send me back to class.

[00:32:47] I was like.

[00:32:48] Oh.

[00:32:48] Jen has put up all these masks.

[00:32:50] For so long.

[00:32:51] To protect herself from people.

[00:32:53] Yeah.

[00:32:53] That.

[00:32:54] She has become the mask.

[00:32:56] And.

[00:32:57] Lillia sees through it.

[00:32:58] When Lillia's like.

[00:32:59] Like you're my sister in the craft.

[00:33:00] Jen visibly relaxes.

[00:33:02] And is like.

[00:33:03] Oh.

[00:33:03] She sees me.

[00:33:05] Like.

[00:33:05] She doesn't think I'm just some fraudulent.

[00:33:08] Like.

[00:33:08] Skin cream hookster.

[00:33:09] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:10] She sees me.

[00:33:16] So that's.

[00:33:17] That's the scene for me.

[00:33:18] By the way.

[00:33:20] That.

[00:33:20] That.

[00:33:20] That scene.

[00:33:22] Where.

[00:33:23] She.

[00:33:23] Wakes up after falling through.

[00:33:25] The ground.

[00:33:26] After the teen throws her in.

[00:33:27] And this is.

[00:33:28] You know.

[00:33:29] I have.

[00:33:29] I.

[00:33:30] I kind of was trying to write down.

[00:33:31] This was like the 11th.

[00:33:33] Sort of shift.

[00:33:34] That we see.

[00:33:36] And.

[00:33:36] She wakes up after falling through.

[00:33:38] And we're.

[00:33:39] You know.

[00:33:39] When I say the 11th.

[00:33:40] I.

[00:33:41] I have 13 numbers.

[00:33:42] Like.

[00:33:42] So this was near the end.

[00:33:43] And she.

[00:33:44] She wakes up.

[00:33:45] And.

[00:33:48] Jen says.

[00:33:48] I have a lot of questions.

[00:33:49] And.

[00:33:52] The seven show up.

[00:33:54] And.

[00:33:55] That adds a whole nother element.

[00:33:56] By the way.

[00:33:56] Because.

[00:33:57] Again.

[00:33:58] Great storytelling.

[00:33:59] The seven.

[00:34:01] The Salem seven.

[00:34:03] Are this background.

[00:34:05] Force.

[00:34:05] That kind of keeps them motivated.

[00:34:07] To move forward.

[00:34:08] And it's used so effectively.

[00:34:10] Again.

[00:34:10] Sort of like jaws.

[00:34:11] In a sense.

[00:34:12] Because.

[00:34:13] When they're out of sight.

[00:34:14] They're kind of out of mind.

[00:34:15] Until they're not.

[00:34:15] Not.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] They show up.

[00:34:18] And they kind of move past them.

[00:34:19] Without seeing them.

[00:34:20] And.

[00:34:20] We just get to the point.

[00:34:22] Where.

[00:34:22] You know.

[00:34:23] They see these two.

[00:34:24] These two pathways.

[00:34:26] This old story.

[00:34:27] Road less traveled.

[00:34:28] Right.

[00:34:28] We see the pathway.

[00:34:30] Off the road.

[00:34:31] That Jen notes.

[00:34:32] And we see.

[00:34:33] The path to save.

[00:34:35] Agatha.

[00:34:36] And Billy.

[00:34:37] And.

[00:34:38] Jen is eyeballing.

[00:34:39] This path.

[00:34:41] And.

[00:34:42] Lilia.

[00:34:43] Never for a second.

[00:34:45] Considers that path.

[00:34:47] She is.

[00:34:48] She's.

[00:34:49] She's the fully formed Lilia.

[00:34:52] That.

[00:34:53] We have not seen yet.

[00:34:55] And she.

[00:34:56] When she.

[00:34:56] Well I'm gonna get a little emotional right now.

[00:34:58] She walks up to her.

[00:34:59] And when she says.

[00:35:00] She grabs her hands.

[00:35:01] And she says.

[00:35:03] I need to go.

[00:35:05] To help the teen.

[00:35:07] And I.

[00:35:08] And Agatha.

[00:35:09] And she says to her.

[00:35:10] I hope you'll join me.

[00:35:11] And I was like.

[00:35:13] And the look on.

[00:35:15] On Jen's face.

[00:35:16] You could see her.

[00:35:17] She was like.

[00:35:17] What now?

[00:35:18] And Jen says back to her.

[00:35:19] Why?

[00:35:20] And she said.

[00:35:21] As you noted.

[00:35:22] Because you are my sister in the craft.

[00:35:24] And it was just.

[00:35:26] And you could see.

[00:35:27] And she turned around.

[00:35:27] And she looked for a second.

[00:35:29] This is where I probably should go.

[00:35:31] But she realized that her path.

[00:35:32] On the road.

[00:35:33] Was.

[00:35:34] Was with Lilia.

[00:35:35] And not only.

[00:35:36] Does she go down the path.

[00:35:37] With Lilia.

[00:35:37] She walked past her.

[00:35:39] And went first.

[00:35:39] And I thought that was.

[00:35:41] Yeah.

[00:35:41] As a storyteller.

[00:35:42] Like that's.

[00:35:45] Probably the first time in her life.

[00:35:48] This is.

[00:35:49] I mean.

[00:35:50] Lilia's been in a coven before.

[00:35:52] For Jen.

[00:35:53] This was probably the first time.

[00:35:55] Since.

[00:35:56] Back in the early 1900s.

[00:35:58] Or late 1800s.

[00:35:59] That she.

[00:36:00] Okay.

[00:36:01] These are my people.

[00:36:03] And.

[00:36:03] That was such a big moment for me.

[00:36:05] And then.

[00:36:06] You know.

[00:36:07] Off we go.

[00:36:08] To.

[00:36:09] To.

[00:36:09] The final like.

[00:36:10] Major scene.

[00:36:11] But.

[00:36:12] I.

[00:36:13] I'm so.

[00:36:14] Those two characters.

[00:36:15] To me.

[00:36:16] Were the stands out.

[00:36:17] Standouts of this episode.

[00:36:18] It's funny.

[00:36:19] You're right.

[00:36:19] I mean.

[00:36:20] I don't know that.

[00:36:21] I can't wait to hear what you have to say.

[00:36:22] About Catherine Han.

[00:36:23] But.

[00:36:24] I have so many good things to say.

[00:36:26] About her in this episode.

[00:36:27] Just based on some other things.

[00:36:28] That we've already talked about.

[00:36:29] But.

[00:36:30] I.

[00:36:39] Did they film in order?

[00:36:40] Did they not?

[00:36:40] And the only reason why I say that.

[00:36:42] Is because.

[00:36:42] We got to see other perspectives.

[00:36:44] Of scenes that we used to see.

[00:36:45] That we've seen already.

[00:36:47] My favorite one personally.

[00:36:48] Was.

[00:36:49] We go back to.

[00:36:51] When they first.

[00:36:52] Went to.

[00:36:54] Um.

[00:36:54] Try to.

[00:36:55] To get Lillia to come.

[00:36:56] Not the first time they met her.

[00:36:57] But when they went to her.

[00:36:58] Um.

[00:37:00] Um.

[00:37:00] The second time.

[00:37:01] When she had all of the names.

[00:37:02] Written down.

[00:37:03] On.

[00:37:03] On the piece of paper.

[00:37:04] And.

[00:37:06] She.

[00:37:07] When she had that first incident.

[00:37:10] Um.

[00:37:10] They showed it.

[00:37:11] In a new perspective.

[00:37:13] This time.

[00:37:13] Where we get to see it.

[00:37:14] Almost from.

[00:37:15] Patti LuPone.

[00:37:16] From Lillia's perspective.

[00:37:17] And it was different.

[00:37:18] Than it was shot.

[00:37:19] Initially.

[00:37:20] Because.

[00:37:21] Initially.

[00:37:22] She.

[00:37:23] Reacted.

[00:37:24] Stop.

[00:37:24] Stop.

[00:37:26] And then.

[00:37:27] Turned around.

[00:37:28] And looked at them.

[00:37:29] And then sort of.

[00:37:30] Waved them off.

[00:37:31] That was the first one.

[00:37:32] In this one.

[00:37:33] It was stop.

[00:37:33] Stop.

[00:37:34] Stop.

[00:37:34] Stop.

[00:37:34] Stop.

[00:37:34] And then she turned around.

[00:37:35] And looked at them.

[00:37:36] And then turned around.

[00:37:37] And flashed away.

[00:37:39] And did the stop.

[00:37:40] Stop.

[00:37:40] Stop.

[00:37:40] Stop.

[00:37:41] Stop.

[00:37:41] Stop.

[00:37:41] Stop.

[00:37:43] She was kind of buying time.

[00:37:44] In the initial one.

[00:37:45] Here.

[00:37:46] It just moved on.

[00:37:46] In that linear fashion.

[00:37:47] Even though it was non-linear.

[00:37:49] And I.

[00:37:50] I just.

[00:37:50] I want to know now.

[00:37:52] When they filmed all of this.

[00:37:54] Because.

[00:37:55] This is.

[00:37:55] If they do.

[00:37:56] A behind the scenes.

[00:37:57] At the end of this.

[00:37:58] It's going to be fascinating.

[00:38:00] Because.

[00:38:00] Yeah.

[00:38:01] I could see.

[00:38:03] I could see.

[00:38:04] I could see them.

[00:38:05] And this is going to be hard to explain.

[00:38:07] But I could see them filming this linear.

[00:38:08] In a linear way.

[00:38:10] Because.

[00:38:11] You had to get.

[00:38:13] Patti LuPone.

[00:38:13] To a certain place.

[00:38:15] To almost film this episode.

[00:38:16] Whereas.

[00:38:17] I don't.

[00:38:17] Well.

[00:38:17] She's a great actress.

[00:38:18] And these are great actresses.

[00:38:19] So.

[00:38:20] I'm sure.

[00:38:21] I'm sure that they could have done it.

[00:38:22] Anyway.

[00:38:22] But I'm.

[00:38:23] I'm just curious to see.

[00:38:24] Like what Jack Schafer did.

[00:38:25] Because.

[00:38:26] This episode was.

[00:38:28] Was.

[00:38:28] How it tied everything together.

[00:38:29] The weaving of.

[00:38:31] All of the other storylines together.

[00:38:33] So that now.

[00:38:34] We can sort of focus ahead on.

[00:38:36] On the last two episodes.

[00:38:39] Just.

[00:38:39] Just master.

[00:38:41] Just.

[00:38:41] She's the maestra.

[00:38:42] Of this.

[00:38:43] Of.

[00:38:44] Of.

[00:38:44] Maybe this.

[00:38:45] This television landscape.

[00:38:47] In 2024.

[00:38:48] Where we have so many amazing stories.

[00:38:51] To be able to do this.

[00:38:53] In a unique way.

[00:38:56] Is.

[00:38:57] Is just beautiful.

[00:38:59] It's.

[00:39:00] So I'll.

[00:39:01] I'll just get it out of the way.

[00:39:03] The.

[00:39:03] The moments with.

[00:39:04] With Catherine Hahn.

[00:39:05] That didn't work.

[00:39:06] For me.

[00:39:07] Were.

[00:39:08] All.

[00:39:09] In the castle.

[00:39:11] You know.

[00:39:11] She's in her green makeup.

[00:39:13] First of all.

[00:39:13] It took me a while.

[00:39:14] To figure out.

[00:39:15] About.

[00:39:16] The green makeup.

[00:39:17] Because I thought it looked really fake.

[00:39:19] And weird.

[00:39:19] And then I realized.

[00:39:20] It was meant to look like theater makeup.

[00:39:22] And not like she actually had green skin.

[00:39:25] Yeah.

[00:39:25] It was intended to look like.

[00:39:26] She was in a stage play or something.

[00:39:28] And I was like.

[00:39:29] Okay.

[00:39:29] All right.

[00:39:30] I get it.

[00:39:32] It's.

[00:39:32] It's.

[00:39:33] I saw.

[00:39:33] There's been several actually.

[00:39:35] Like.

[00:39:36] Instagram commenters.

[00:39:37] Who talk about how.

[00:39:38] Whoever's in charge of the trials.

[00:39:39] On the witch's road.

[00:39:40] Is like.

[00:39:41] A frustrated theater kid.

[00:39:42] Who's like.

[00:39:43] You know.

[00:39:44] Really working out all their issues.

[00:39:46] About makeup.

[00:39:47] And costumes.

[00:39:48] And drama.

[00:39:49] And being a diva.

[00:39:50] And like.

[00:39:50] All this stuff.

[00:39:51] Because it's like.

[00:39:51] It's so theatrical.

[00:39:52] Right.

[00:39:53] It's so performative.

[00:39:55] The hairstyles.

[00:39:56] The costumes.

[00:39:56] Every trial.

[00:39:57] Has its whole own aesthetic.

[00:39:58] Like that's.

[00:39:59] Some.

[00:40:00] Some theater kid.

[00:40:01] Is behind that.

[00:40:02] But she.

[00:40:04] Acts all stagey.

[00:40:05] And weird.

[00:40:06] When she's in that getup.

[00:40:08] And.

[00:40:08] There were just a couple of moments of it.

[00:40:10] That didn't.

[00:40:11] Ring.

[00:40:12] True.

[00:40:12] For me.

[00:40:13] Most especially.

[00:40:14] When.

[00:40:15] When teen asks her.

[00:40:16] Is Rio death.

[00:40:18] And she says.

[00:40:20] Something like.

[00:40:22] Well.

[00:40:22] What are you going to do?

[00:40:23] I like the bad boys.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:25] I.

[00:40:26] Bad boys.

[00:40:28] Clearly Rio is a woman.

[00:40:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:40:31] Um.

[00:40:32] So.

[00:40:32] Saying I like the bad boys.

[00:40:34] Yes.

[00:40:34] That's like a cultural cliche.

[00:40:36] I myself have said.

[00:40:37] I like bad boys all the time.

[00:40:39] Um.

[00:40:40] But I don't think that's what.

[00:40:42] A 300 year old.

[00:40:43] Which.

[00:40:44] Would have said.

[00:40:45] In that moment.

[00:40:47] I think.

[00:40:48] She might have said.

[00:40:49] What are you going to do?

[00:40:50] I like them bad.

[00:40:51] Or.

[00:40:52] What are you going to do?

[00:40:52] And just shrug.

[00:40:54] Like.

[00:40:54] Yeah.

[00:40:55] It's death.

[00:40:56] Um.

[00:40:57] I.

[00:40:57] I just.

[00:40:57] It felt really like a weird line.

[00:41:00] That didn't make sense.

[00:41:01] And it.

[00:41:01] It pulled me out of the story.

[00:41:02] For just a.

[00:41:03] A moment.

[00:41:05] Um.

[00:41:06] The other one.

[00:41:07] That didn't ring true for me.

[00:41:08] But it was worth it.

[00:41:09] Because of the line.

[00:41:10] That came after.

[00:41:10] Was when she was like.

[00:41:12] You know.

[00:41:12] She's based on me.

[00:41:13] About.

[00:41:14] You know.

[00:41:14] The Wicked Witch of the West.

[00:41:16] And.

[00:41:16] Or El Faba.

[00:41:17] And.

[00:41:18] Teen says.

[00:41:19] Prove it.

[00:41:20] Once he said.

[00:41:21] Prove it.

[00:41:21] I was like.

[00:41:22] Oh.

[00:41:22] I'm so glad they had that in there.

[00:41:23] But when she said.

[00:41:24] She's based on me.

[00:41:25] And she was being all theatrical.

[00:41:26] About it.

[00:41:26] With her hands and everything.

[00:41:27] I was like.

[00:41:28] Uh.

[00:41:29] That's dumb.

[00:41:30] But prove it.

[00:41:31] Was such a funny line.

[00:41:32] That I forgave it.

[00:41:32] Right away.

[00:41:33] Well.

[00:41:33] So.

[00:41:34] So let me connect that for you.

[00:41:35] Because this is what.

[00:41:36] Because I.

[00:41:36] I thought.

[00:41:37] I.

[00:41:38] I thought about this.

[00:41:39] Actually.

[00:41:40] Those two parts.

[00:41:41] Kind of connect to me.

[00:41:43] Um.

[00:41:44] I.

[00:41:45] When I first watched it.

[00:41:46] And she said.

[00:41:47] This character's based on me.

[00:41:49] I don't believe.

[00:41:51] She was taught.

[00:41:52] Or this was.

[00:41:53] She didn't say this character.

[00:41:54] She said.

[00:41:55] Um.

[00:41:55] You know.

[00:41:55] She was based on me.

[00:41:56] I think is what she said.

[00:41:57] I could be wrong there.

[00:41:59] But I don't think it was.

[00:41:59] Yeah.

[00:42:00] She was based on me.

[00:42:01] So I don't think she was talking about.

[00:42:04] I think it's.

[00:42:05] I think you just kind of.

[00:42:06] Explained how I.

[00:42:07] Sort of have it in my head anyways.

[00:42:09] I don't think she was talking about the character in the book.

[00:42:12] I think she was talking about the 1939 version.

[00:42:15] I think she was being theatrical in this.

[00:42:18] Because this was a theatrical.

[00:42:20] Like.

[00:42:21] Like.

[00:42:21] I think that Agatha was kind of interact.

[00:42:23] In that.

[00:42:25] 1930s.

[00:42:26] Like Hollywood.

[00:42:26] And I think she was being theatrical throughout this.

[00:42:29] Because of that.

[00:42:30] Like.

[00:42:30] I think she was basing.

[00:42:32] That character on who she might have been.

[00:42:34] In the 1930s.

[00:42:36] Which is what created the.

[00:42:37] The Green Witch of the movie.

[00:42:39] Not the witch in the book.

[00:42:41] If that makes sense.

[00:42:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:43] So I think that.

[00:42:44] I think that her being theatrical in this.

[00:42:47] In those moments.

[00:42:47] Now the bad boys come.

[00:42:49] And I get that.

[00:42:50] But.

[00:42:50] But I do think that.

[00:42:52] All of the rest of it.

[00:42:54] And again.

[00:42:54] How Catherine Hahn moves her hands throughout this episode.

[00:42:57] Is just magnificent.

[00:42:58] But.

[00:42:59] I do think that.

[00:43:00] That.

[00:43:02] A lot of it was that.

[00:43:03] I think she was just trying to showcase that theatrical side of her.

[00:43:06] That perhaps inspired this character.

[00:43:09] Then.

[00:43:10] And then.

[00:43:11] The.

[00:43:11] The quote from.

[00:43:12] From.

[00:43:13] From Billy.

[00:43:15] I just.

[00:43:16] He.

[00:43:16] He.

[00:43:16] Has clearly.

[00:43:18] For whatever reason.

[00:43:20] He trusted her.

[00:43:21] At the beginning of the series.

[00:43:23] Very much so.

[00:43:24] Probably based on.

[00:43:26] Her being.

[00:43:28] The.

[00:43:29] Her.

[00:43:29] Her.

[00:43:29] Her ex best friend's babysitter.

[00:43:31] He does not trust her at all anymore.

[00:43:34] And I think that he made a couple of comments.

[00:43:36] That being one of them.

[00:43:37] Where he was.

[00:43:38] As.

[00:43:38] As maybe.

[00:43:39] A part of the.

[00:43:41] The narrative.

[00:43:42] Jack Schafer.

[00:43:43] For just letting us know.

[00:43:45] That.

[00:43:45] He doesn't trust her anymore.

[00:43:48] So I didn't.

[00:43:49] Had it with her.

[00:43:51] With her fakery.

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:53] And theatricality.

[00:43:53] Right.

[00:43:53] Yes.

[00:43:54] Like shut.

[00:43:54] Just shut up.

[00:43:55] Yeah.

[00:43:55] And I think that's maybe why she overdid it in this episode.

[00:43:58] Because she.

[00:43:59] She most.

[00:44:00] She used every.

[00:44:01] Wicked witch of the west pose.

[00:44:03] That you could possibly imagine.

[00:44:05] In this episode.

[00:44:06] And I find.

[00:44:07] Yeah.

[00:44:07] It may have been.

[00:44:08] And I will say.

[00:44:09] The tone of the episode.

[00:44:11] Tonally.

[00:44:12] Maybe that didn't fit.

[00:44:14] As well as it has in other episodes.

[00:44:17] Because I did find myself.

[00:44:19] Like I would watch her move in the background.

[00:44:20] And I would chuckle.

[00:44:21] And I'd be like.

[00:44:22] Oh I'm not supposed to chuckle here.

[00:44:24] So.

[00:44:25] Yeah.

[00:44:26] So yeah.

[00:44:26] She is very funny.

[00:44:27] I thought the whole tarot card scene.

[00:44:29] Where she was just like throwing cards down.

[00:44:31] Also.

[00:44:32] Didn't read completely true.

[00:44:34] But.

[00:44:34] If she was sort of desperate to get teens love back.

[00:44:37] And upset with him for rejecting her.

[00:44:40] It makes a kind of sense.

[00:44:41] Yeah.

[00:44:42] I think that.

[00:44:44] I've been thinking a lot about Agatha.

[00:44:46] And her power.

[00:44:47] And.

[00:44:48] I think that her life is incredibly tragic.

[00:44:51] Because.

[00:44:53] You know.

[00:44:54] The scene.

[00:44:55] That's in episode.

[00:44:57] I don't know.

[00:44:57] Eight or whatever.

[00:44:58] Of WandaVision.

[00:44:59] Where we see her.

[00:45:00] In Salem.

[00:45:02] With her mother.

[00:45:02] And her coven.

[00:45:03] And they're all like.

[00:45:04] You know.

[00:45:05] You sought knowledge above your station.

[00:45:07] Like her crime is.

[00:45:09] The crime that they're putting her on trial for there.

[00:45:11] Is.

[00:45:12] Trying to.

[00:45:13] Become a more powerful witch.

[00:45:15] Right.

[00:45:15] And it's like.

[00:45:16] Know your place.

[00:45:17] And then they blast her with all their power.

[00:45:20] And that's when she discovers.

[00:45:22] That she can absorb their power.

[00:45:23] It seems like a complete surprise to her.

[00:45:25] In that moment.

[00:45:26] Yeah.

[00:45:26] And I don't think that.

[00:45:28] Before that.

[00:45:29] She had.

[00:45:29] She had any idea that she was going to be able to do that.

[00:45:31] I think she was truly terrified of dying in that moment.

[00:45:33] Then she absorbs all their power.

[00:45:36] I mean.

[00:45:37] If you just look at her.

[00:45:38] If you watch that scene without.

[00:45:39] Without sound.

[00:45:40] Which.

[00:45:41] I may have done once or twice.

[00:45:43] Her.

[00:45:44] That's.

[00:45:44] What you just said is exactly how her face portrays it.

[00:45:48] Until you see that.

[00:45:49] Like she discovers it.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:51] When.

[00:45:51] When that purple.

[00:45:53] Starts exuding from her.

[00:45:54] Where it's clear that she's.

[00:45:57] Acquiring that power.

[00:45:59] You can.

[00:45:59] Her face changes.

[00:46:00] Almost immediately.

[00:46:01] It goes from.

[00:46:03] Wonder and fear.

[00:46:05] To.

[00:46:07] Holy.

[00:46:08] Oh.

[00:46:09] Oh.

[00:46:09] Yeah.

[00:46:10] To holy cow.

[00:46:11] To holy.

[00:46:12] To holy.

[00:46:13] I'll bleep that out.

[00:46:15] And.

[00:46:16] Yeah.

[00:46:16] She's.

[00:46:17] Surprised by it.

[00:46:18] Yes.

[00:46:18] And then.

[00:46:19] So then I went and rewatched the scene with Alice.

[00:46:21] Alice.

[00:46:22] And.

[00:46:23] When Alice first blasts her with her magic.

[00:46:26] It's Agatha's mother is still possessing her.

[00:46:29] And then.

[00:46:30] As.

[00:46:31] Agatha's mother.

[00:46:32] Is being pushed out.

[00:46:35] Agatha starts absorbing the power.

[00:46:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:38] And.

[00:46:39] So she's not in complete control of her body when the absorbing starts.

[00:46:43] It's a.

[00:46:44] It's like a.

[00:46:45] Reflex.

[00:46:46] Yeah.

[00:46:46] And then.

[00:46:47] She does sort of reach.

[00:46:49] Like lean into it after a little bit.

[00:46:51] And you can see the look on her face is.

[00:46:53] Is like the.

[00:46:54] The look of like.

[00:46:55] Like an.

[00:46:56] An addict who.

[00:46:58] Is being given drugs for the first time in a long time.

[00:47:00] She's like.

[00:47:01] Oh.

[00:47:01] This power is so yummy.

[00:47:03] And.

[00:47:03] And.

[00:47:04] And she's.

[00:47:04] She's not.

[00:47:05] It's not a very long scene.

[00:47:07] It happens very quickly.

[00:47:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:09] That she starts absorbing the power.

[00:47:10] Everybody else is screaming at her.

[00:47:12] And then.

[00:47:13] You know.

[00:47:13] The.

[00:47:13] The.

[00:47:14] The Nicholas Scratch voice gets her to stop.

[00:47:16] By basically shocking her out of this reverie that she's in.

[00:47:20] Of absorbing the power.

[00:47:21] And.

[00:47:22] The look on her face immediately after she leaves that.

[00:47:25] And she goes back to the road.

[00:47:26] And she's realizing she has power now.

[00:47:28] And where it came from.

[00:47:29] Everything that just happened.

[00:47:30] Is.

[00:47:31] Is one of sort of like.

[00:47:33] Well.

[00:47:33] I guess this is what I wanted.

[00:47:35] But.

[00:47:36] I feel really.

[00:47:37] Really.

[00:47:38] Like disgusting.

[00:47:39] About how it happened.

[00:47:40] Like this is.

[00:47:40] This is gross.

[00:47:42] And then she puts on her Agatha.

[00:47:44] Like.

[00:47:50] Who's innate.

[00:47:51] Born power.

[00:47:52] Is to absorb.

[00:47:53] The power from other witches.

[00:47:55] Until it kills them.

[00:47:56] You very.

[00:47:58] Very quickly.

[00:47:59] Will develop a reputation.

[00:48:00] Among all witches.

[00:48:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:02] That you are a witch killer.

[00:48:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:04] Whether or not.

[00:48:04] It was intentional.

[00:48:06] To begin with.

[00:48:07] Or ever intentional.

[00:48:09] All of them believe that she has power.

[00:48:11] Control over it.

[00:48:11] And that she does it on purpose.

[00:48:13] So.

[00:48:14] No wonder.

[00:48:15] Death was attracted to her.

[00:48:17] Right.

[00:48:17] Because death follows Agatha around.

[00:48:18] Whether she wants it to or not.

[00:48:21] And.

[00:48:22] Then she met death.

[00:48:23] And realized.

[00:48:24] She.

[00:48:25] Can't.

[00:48:26] Absorb death's power.

[00:48:27] For whatever reason.

[00:48:29] She says it'll kill her.

[00:48:30] But also maybe.

[00:48:31] She just.

[00:48:31] Like.

[00:48:32] She can't do it.

[00:48:33] And.

[00:48:34] Like.

[00:48:35] Here is a person.

[00:48:36] Who.

[00:48:36] She won't have to worry about.

[00:48:38] Inadvertently killing.

[00:48:39] Yeah.

[00:48:40] At any time in her life.

[00:48:41] Great point.

[00:48:41] She hasn't had a coven.

[00:48:43] Since her first coven.

[00:48:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:44] Because.

[00:48:45] Nobody would want to coven up with a witch.

[00:48:47] Who's going to.

[00:48:48] Like.

[00:48:48] Steal their power.

[00:48:49] And kill them.

[00:48:49] But also.

[00:48:50] Agatha doesn't want to coven up.

[00:48:52] With any witches.

[00:48:53] That she's going to end up killing.

[00:48:54] Right.

[00:48:54] It's a tragic way to live your life.

[00:48:56] It's like.

[00:48:56] Rogue and X-Men.

[00:48:57] Who can't.

[00:48:58] Well.

[00:48:58] I was just going to say that.

[00:48:59] Yeah.

[00:49:00] Yeah.

[00:49:00] Very much the rogue story.

[00:49:03] So no wonder.

[00:49:04] She found herself.

[00:49:05] In a relationship.

[00:49:07] With death.

[00:49:08] Like.

[00:49:08] Putting aside the fact.

[00:49:09] That Aubrey Plaza's portrayal of death.

[00:49:11] Is so magnetic.

[00:49:12] And sexy.

[00:49:13] Like.

[00:49:13] Who wouldn't want to be in a relationship.

[00:49:15] With that woman.

[00:49:15] But.

[00:49:17] Here is someone that she doesn't have to worry about hurting.

[00:49:21] Right.

[00:49:22] That she can actually relax around.

[00:49:24] Because.

[00:49:26] She's not going to absorb and kill.

[00:49:28] And who can't kill her.

[00:49:31] Yeah.

[00:49:31] For whatever reason.

[00:49:33] Well.

[00:49:34] So they make a lot of sense as a couple.

[00:49:35] Oh.

[00:49:36] I mean.

[00:49:36] Penny.

[00:49:37] That's like.

[00:49:37] Dead on.

[00:49:38] Like.

[00:49:40] All of these.

[00:49:43] Witches in this coven.

[00:49:45] Are.

[00:49:46] Have isolated themselves.

[00:49:47] For different reasons.

[00:49:49] It very much is the mutant story.

[00:49:51] Of the X-Men.

[00:49:54] Which.

[00:49:55] In and of itself.

[00:49:56] Gives them morals.

[00:49:57] Right.

[00:49:57] Like.

[00:49:57] So.

[00:49:58] We.

[00:50:00] The problem.

[00:50:01] That Agatha has had along the way.

[00:50:04] Is her curiosity.

[00:50:06] That curiosity.

[00:50:07] That you go way back to the 1600s.

[00:50:09] Of her wanting to understand.

[00:50:12] Power.

[00:50:12] And how to get it.

[00:50:13] Which of course is.

[00:50:15] Kind of the witch's way.

[00:50:18] I think.

[00:50:19] And being punished for it.

[00:50:20] Uh huh.

[00:50:21] Which is.

[00:50:21] Well.

[00:50:22] Think about it.

[00:50:22] Being punished not only by.

[00:50:24] It's a patriarchy.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:25] Well.

[00:50:26] And if you're being punished.

[00:50:27] By your own coven.

[00:50:29] Patriarchy being policed by women.

[00:50:30] Yeah.

[00:50:30] We're.

[00:50:31] We were watching.

[00:50:32] A very traditional Salem.

[00:50:35] Kind of.

[00:50:36] Visage.

[00:50:36] Back in WandaVision.

[00:50:37] But.

[00:50:38] This wasn't the townspeople.

[00:50:41] Burning her at the stake.

[00:50:42] This was her coven.

[00:50:44] It was her sisters.

[00:50:44] Yeah.

[00:50:45] Yeah.

[00:50:45] Her mother.

[00:50:46] Her friends.

[00:50:47] Her family.

[00:50:48] So.

[00:50:49] It's.

[00:50:50] It's deeply tragic.

[00:50:51] That.

[00:50:52] Like.

[00:50:53] No wonder she doesn't have any friends.

[00:50:54] No wonder.

[00:50:55] She can't trust anyone.

[00:50:57] No one trusts her.

[00:50:58] And.

[00:50:59] She doesn't have anybody to rely on ever.

[00:51:01] So she's had to become.

[00:51:04] Hyper independent.

[00:51:05] I relate so much to her.

[00:51:06] Because.

[00:51:07] I have felt at various times in my life.

[00:51:10] That I can't trust anyone.

[00:51:11] And that I just.

[00:51:12] Can only rely on myself.

[00:51:13] And.

[00:51:14] That has been interpreted by people as.

[00:51:16] Well Penny just always looks out for herself.

[00:51:18] And it's like yeah.

[00:51:19] Because no one else is doing that.

[00:51:20] Yeah.

[00:51:20] And.

[00:51:21] That's Agatha.

[00:51:22] She has to look out for herself.

[00:51:24] Because.

[00:51:24] She.

[00:51:25] She doesn't have anyone else.

[00:51:27] Now Lilia.

[00:51:28] Hasn't had a coven since.

[00:51:30] Her early life.

[00:51:31] Because.

[00:51:32] She saw everyone in her coven die.

[00:51:34] And she couldn't stop it.

[00:51:36] And so for her.

[00:51:37] Her isolation.

[00:51:38] Was.

[00:51:38] More about.

[00:51:40] Protecting herself from the pain.

[00:51:42] Of seeing people she loves die.

[00:51:44] Because she always sees their death.

[00:51:45] And then.

[00:51:46] She can't escape from it.

[00:51:49] Jen is isolated.

[00:51:50] Because she's been bound.

[00:51:51] And because she never really considered herself a witch.

[00:51:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:56] And only finds out that.

[00:51:58] It's because she was cursed.

[00:52:00] Yeah.

[00:52:01] Which she never believed.

[00:52:02] But it turns out to be true.

[00:52:03] And.

[00:52:04] I love Lilia's.

[00:52:05] The part of Lilia's story.

[00:52:07] Where she realizes that she needed to coven all along.

[00:52:10] That having a team.

[00:52:13] Around her.

[00:52:14] Of.

[00:52:15] People with different abilities.

[00:52:17] And different perspectives.

[00:52:17] Was the thing that was always missing from her life.

[00:52:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:52:21] And that.

[00:52:22] It was the thing she needed to make herself complete.

[00:52:25] And.

[00:52:26] It goes back to the first time she said Three of Pentacles.

[00:52:29] We talked about this.

[00:52:30] And this belief I have in like diverse teams.

[00:52:33] And.

[00:52:34] And the beauty of.

[00:52:35] Of how it feels to.

[00:52:38] Find your people.

[00:52:39] You know.

[00:52:40] When you find your people.

[00:52:41] And you feel like.

[00:52:41] Oh.

[00:52:42] I fit in here.

[00:52:42] It's the way I feel about the Zed Head group.

[00:52:45] That we're a part of.

[00:52:46] Yes.

[00:52:46] Around podcasting.

[00:52:48] Is this feeling of like.

[00:52:49] Even though you're so different from me.

[00:52:51] You get me.

[00:52:52] And you.

[00:52:53] Are.

[00:52:53] Cool with us being different.

[00:52:55] And that's amazing.

[00:52:56] And.

[00:52:56] We can enhance each other's strength.

[00:52:59] And collaborate.

[00:52:59] Instead of compete.

[00:53:01] It's all very beautiful.

[00:53:02] And that's what a coven.

[00:53:03] Is at it.

[00:53:04] At its core.

[00:53:04] And the fact that all of their magic is more powerful.

[00:53:07] When they're.

[00:53:08] Together.

[00:53:09] And helping each other.

[00:53:10] Than any of them.

[00:53:11] Would be separately.

[00:53:12] Is really beautiful.

[00:53:14] And.

[00:53:14] The fact that Lilia.

[00:53:17] Recognizes all of this.

[00:53:18] And it.

[00:53:19] She fully becomes herself.

[00:53:21] In the moments before her death.

[00:53:23] Is so.

[00:53:25] Heartbreaking.

[00:53:28] And.

[00:53:29] Of course it relates to the lines of the song.

[00:53:31] There never seems to be enough time.

[00:53:33] To do the things you want to do.

[00:53:34] Once you find them.

[00:53:36] And.

[00:53:36] How I feel about.

[00:53:38] How I feel like at 52.

[00:53:39] To.

[00:53:41] I'm finally figuring out.

[00:53:43] Who I am as a person.

[00:53:47] Sorry.

[00:53:47] I'm going to get emotional now.

[00:53:48] No.

[00:53:48] That's okay.

[00:53:50] I think.

[00:53:53] I think.

[00:53:54] I think.

[00:53:54] That.

[00:53:55] What this show.

[00:53:56] Can show us though.

[00:53:58] Because that is very true.

[00:54:00] If you see.

[00:54:02] If you go back to this episode.

[00:54:04] To the beginning.

[00:54:05] Where we see her falling.

[00:54:06] And the look of fear on her face.

[00:54:08] As opposed to.

[00:54:11] Her falling at the end of the episode.

[00:54:14] She has a completely different look on her face.

[00:54:17] A look of.

[00:54:18] I mean.

[00:54:19] I don't know how else to say it.

[00:54:21] Other than say.

[00:54:22] A look of power.

[00:54:23] Yeah.

[00:54:24] I think that.

[00:54:25] She's realizing.

[00:54:26] Through the last five.

[00:54:27] Six.

[00:54:28] Seven minutes of this episode.

[00:54:29] That.

[00:54:30] Her whole life has been leading to this.

[00:54:33] And that.

[00:54:34] We get that.

[00:54:35] Special moment.

[00:54:38] That I'm sure we'll get to.

[00:54:40] Or she gets to say.

[00:54:41] Sort of goodbye to.

[00:54:43] All of the.

[00:54:44] Witches in her coven.

[00:54:45] That are left.

[00:54:47] And.

[00:54:48] Is.

[00:54:50] Like.

[00:54:50] Very much the leader.

[00:54:52] Sending them on their way.

[00:54:54] She's doing.

[00:54:57] And she's.

[00:54:58] Satisfied.

[00:55:00] And I think that's important.

[00:55:01] Because.

[00:55:02] When.

[00:55:02] She was sitting.

[00:55:04] When.

[00:55:05] When they.

[00:55:05] When they did that awesome camera.

[00:55:07] Panning.

[00:55:08] Where they.

[00:55:09] Start off with young.

[00:55:10] Lilia.

[00:55:11] They pan to.

[00:55:12] The maestra.

[00:55:13] And then pan back.

[00:55:14] And.

[00:55:15] Our.

[00:55:15] Our lily is sitting there.

[00:55:19] I remember feeling.

[00:55:21] Frustrated.

[00:55:22] For her.

[00:55:23] That she spent.

[00:55:24] The better part of 400 years.

[00:55:26] Not being who she was.

[00:55:28] Supposed to be.

[00:55:30] And then.

[00:55:31] By the end of this episode.

[00:55:32] At least in the second viewing.

[00:55:33] I felt.

[00:55:36] Somewhat satisfied.

[00:55:38] That.

[00:55:40] She needed to be on the path.

[00:55:42] That she was on then.

[00:55:44] To take her to where she was.

[00:55:46] At.

[00:55:47] In that moment.

[00:55:49] And even though.

[00:55:50] That moment wasn't going to last.

[00:55:51] 400 years.

[00:55:55] She was satisfied that.

[00:55:58] She was able to do it with.

[00:56:01] The people that ultimately.

[00:56:03] She ended up loving.

[00:56:04] There's that.

[00:56:05] That.

[00:56:06] Um.

[00:56:07] Quote.

[00:56:08] That she talked about.

[00:56:08] Again.

[00:56:09] That was kind of spread out.

[00:56:10] Throughout the series.

[00:56:11] That was kind of pulled all together here.

[00:56:12] Where she says.

[00:56:14] Um.

[00:56:15] We didn't even really like each other.

[00:56:16] At first.

[00:56:17] And.

[00:56:19] I.

[00:56:20] I.

[00:56:20] I was just struck at the end.

[00:56:22] Of them kind of yelling back and forth to each other.

[00:56:24] These swords.

[00:56:25] These swords are falling down around them.

[00:56:27] And how content.

[00:56:29] It was very much like it used to be.

[00:56:31] You know.

[00:56:32] At Thanksgiving for me.

[00:56:33] Sitting around my family.

[00:56:35] As we'd be bickering back and forth to everybody.

[00:56:37] But there was such a sense of love around it.

[00:56:40] Um.

[00:56:41] So.

[00:56:42] I.

[00:56:43] I don't know.

[00:56:43] I.

[00:56:44] I think the lesson that you and I can both learn.

[00:56:46] Because.

[00:56:47] I agree with you.

[00:56:48] I feel like I'm sort of coming into my own now.

[00:56:50] And I'm 53 years old.

[00:56:51] Um.

[00:56:52] And it's hard not to have regret.

[00:56:53] Because.

[00:56:54] You know.

[00:56:54] If only we could take this power back with us.

[00:56:56] If only we could time jump back.

[00:56:58] But I also think that there is something to.

[00:57:02] The path that we take.

[00:57:04] You know.

[00:57:04] To get to where we are.

[00:57:06] So yeah.

[00:57:06] I.

[00:57:07] I.

[00:57:07] I hope that.

[00:57:08] That.

[00:57:09] Penny.

[00:57:10] You can take the connectivity of that.

[00:57:11] Is that the journey that you've been on in your life.

[00:57:14] Is very much like.

[00:57:15] Like all of our journeys.

[00:57:16] And hopefully.

[00:57:17] Like.

[00:57:18] I think you're lucky if you realize that.

[00:57:21] You're starting to come into your own.

[00:57:22] Because I do feel like lots of people don't.

[00:57:24] Don't have that.

[00:57:29] I think the show is also a lot about.

[00:57:32] How.

[00:57:33] Our society.

[00:57:35] Fears.

[00:57:37] Women.

[00:57:38] With power.

[00:57:40] And.

[00:57:41] Vilifies.

[00:57:42] Women who.

[00:57:43] Seek power.

[00:57:45] So.

[00:57:45] It's bad enough.

[00:57:46] If you just have power.

[00:57:48] Right.

[00:57:48] If you.

[00:57:49] You acquire power somehow.

[00:57:50] And it's an accident.

[00:57:52] But.

[00:57:53] The big crime.

[00:57:55] That Agatha committed.

[00:57:57] As a teenager.

[00:57:58] Was seeking power.

[00:58:01] And.

[00:58:02] Witches.

[00:58:03] And.

[00:58:04] Lilia brings the point up a lot.

[00:58:05] About the sort of cultural stereotypes.

[00:58:07] About witches.

[00:58:08] Right.

[00:58:08] She doesn't like.

[00:58:09] The Halloween industrial complex.

[00:58:11] Which is a hilarious way to put that.

[00:58:14] You know.

[00:58:14] She's very offended by the outfits.

[00:58:16] They're in.

[00:58:17] In this outfit.

[00:58:18] In this episode.

[00:58:19] Which is really funny.

[00:58:20] I love.

[00:58:21] I love Jen.

[00:58:22] Who's like.

[00:58:23] We could be culturally offended later.

[00:58:25] Like.

[00:58:25] Just.

[00:58:26] Let's get through this.

[00:58:27] When she's like.

[00:58:27] What are you wearing?

[00:58:28] And Jen's like.

[00:58:29] I don't want to talk about it.

[00:58:30] Because that outfit was just so hideous.

[00:58:31] Well.

[00:58:32] I love that she called her by her last name.

[00:58:34] I.

[00:58:34] She.

[00:58:35] Yeah.

[00:58:35] Again.

[00:58:36] It's just that.

[00:58:37] I.

[00:58:37] How much.

[00:58:38] How far they've come.

[00:58:40] Yeah.

[00:58:41] In this journey.

[00:58:42] Yeah.

[00:58:42] I love that.

[00:58:43] Oh.

[00:58:43] So cute.

[00:58:43] But.

[00:58:44] So.

[00:58:44] I was thinking about.

[00:58:46] Another show I podcasted about.

[00:58:48] Was She Hulk.

[00:58:49] And.

[00:58:50] She Hulk is about.

[00:58:51] How uncomfortable society is.

[00:58:53] With women being angry.

[00:58:56] Right.

[00:58:56] She Hulk.

[00:58:58] Has to contain.

[00:58:59] Her Hulkness.

[00:59:00] At all times.

[00:59:02] And hide it behind.

[00:59:03] Sexiness.

[00:59:04] And prettiness.

[00:59:06] Otherwise.

[00:59:07] She's a monster.

[00:59:09] And society.

[00:59:11] Will imprison her.

[00:59:12] Right.

[00:59:13] Whereas.

[00:59:14] Bruce Banner's Hulk.

[00:59:15] Has literally destroyed cities.

[00:59:18] And he keeps getting chances.

[00:59:20] But her Hulk.

[00:59:22] Like.

[00:59:22] People are freaked out by her.

[00:59:24] From day one.

[00:59:25] And she's actually way more in control.

[00:59:27] Of her anger.

[00:59:28] Than Bruce Banner's Hulk is.

[00:59:29] So.

[00:59:30] That's a whole show.

[00:59:31] About how uncomfortable.

[00:59:33] Society is.

[00:59:34] With women.

[00:59:35] Having power.

[00:59:35] And women being angry.

[00:59:37] And this show.

[00:59:38] Is a lot about.

[00:59:39] How uncomfortable society is.

[00:59:40] With women.

[00:59:42] Wanting power.

[00:59:43] And.

[00:59:45] It's.

[00:59:45] It's very true.

[00:59:47] Of women in politics.

[00:59:49] That.

[00:59:50] That.

[00:59:51] Men are allowed to be like.

[00:59:53] I want to be in charge.

[00:59:54] I want to lead.

[00:59:55] But when.

[00:59:56] Women have to say.

[00:59:57] I want to serve.

[00:59:58] I want to.

[00:59:59] Solve problems.

[01:00:02] And.

[01:00:03] Recently.

[01:00:03] Kamala Harris gave a.

[01:00:05] An interview.

[01:00:06] Where.

[01:00:07] Somebody had said like.

[01:00:09] Oh she doesn't have any.

[01:00:10] Biological children.

[01:00:11] Or.

[01:00:11] They actually said.

[01:00:12] She doesn't have any children.

[01:00:13] Which is.

[01:00:14] Patently false.

[01:00:15] Because she has step kids.

[01:00:16] But.

[01:00:17] Yeah.

[01:00:17] They said.

[01:00:17] She doesn't have any children.

[01:00:18] To keep her humble.

[01:00:20] And.

[01:00:20] And.

[01:00:20] She says.

[01:00:22] Maybe not all women.

[01:00:24] Are on this earth.

[01:00:25] Trying to be humble.

[01:00:27] And that.

[01:00:28] Sent shock waves.

[01:00:29] Through.

[01:00:31] Our society.

[01:00:33] People were like.

[01:00:33] What?

[01:00:34] Women are not trying to be humble.

[01:00:35] Like the idea of a woman.

[01:00:36] Not trying to be humble.

[01:00:37] Is like.

[01:00:38] Terrifying to some people.

[01:00:40] And the entire mythology.

[01:00:42] Around witches.

[01:00:43] Is about.

[01:00:44] Women who.

[01:00:45] Have power.

[01:00:46] And.

[01:00:46] Don't want to be.

[01:00:48] You know.

[01:00:49] How submissive.

[01:00:50] And how.

[01:00:51] That turns them into monsters.

[01:00:53] Like.

[01:00:53] That makes them a monster.

[01:00:55] Because they want power.

[01:00:56] And.

[01:00:57] I find it very liberating.

[01:00:59] To see this show.

[01:01:00] Where.

[01:01:00] All these women.

[01:01:01] Are just seeking power.

[01:01:02] And there's no men on the road.

[01:01:03] Being like.

[01:01:04] Stop.

[01:01:05] Don't.

[01:01:05] You can't have the power.

[01:01:06] What are you doing?

[01:01:07] Don't you want to have kids?

[01:01:09] Where are your kids?

[01:01:10] Like.

[01:01:10] None of that stuff.

[01:01:11] Is happening in the show.

[01:01:12] And it's very liberating.

[01:01:14] It's like.

[01:01:14] Yeah.

[01:01:15] Go.

[01:01:15] Go for your power.

[01:01:16] Go get some power.

[01:01:17] Ladies.

[01:01:17] Like.

[01:01:18] That's awesome.

[01:01:19] Yeah.

[01:01:19] And this is.

[01:01:19] You should have power.

[01:01:20] This is usually where I would say too.

[01:01:21] That context is important of the power.

[01:01:24] And I do think that that is true in a sense.

[01:01:26] But.

[01:01:26] It shouldn't be.

[01:01:27] Like.

[01:01:28] I don't think.

[01:01:29] Like when we watch.

[01:01:31] Super.

[01:01:31] When I was reading superhero comics as a kid.

[01:01:33] And.

[01:01:34] 95% of the superhero comics that I read were male dominated comics.

[01:01:37] I wasn't going.

[01:01:39] Well.

[01:01:39] Contextually.

[01:01:40] This is why.

[01:01:41] They want to get this power.

[01:01:43] I never said it that way.

[01:01:45] Um.

[01:01:45] I.

[01:01:46] I don't think context matters.

[01:01:48] I think that.

[01:01:49] We are.

[01:01:50] You know.

[01:01:50] As human beings.

[01:01:52] We can search for power.

[01:01:53] But that's okay.

[01:01:55] I think you can put context to it.

[01:01:57] And in this.

[01:01:58] In this episode.

[01:01:59] Like we can contextually talk about.

[01:02:00] As you noted earlier.

[01:02:02] Why.

[01:02:03] Why.

[01:02:03] Each person was.

[01:02:04] Who they were.

[01:02:06] Um.

[01:02:06] And I.

[01:02:07] I.

[01:02:08] Contextually think that her searching for power.

[01:02:10] Is a natural dynamic of being in a coven.

[01:02:13] Uh.

[01:02:14] They were basically saying.

[01:02:15] You're too young to do it.

[01:02:16] And.

[01:02:17] And I.

[01:02:17] I.

[01:02:18] The.

[01:02:19] The putting.

[01:02:20] Um.

[01:02:21] Reigns around.

[01:02:22] Someone with curiosity.

[01:02:24] Putting reins around somebody.

[01:02:25] Who might have power.

[01:02:26] That we can't control.

[01:02:27] I think the irony of the statement.

[01:02:29] That humble statement.

[01:02:30] The great irony that nobody seems to talk about.

[01:02:33] Is I believe the person who said that.

[01:02:35] Was the wannabe vice president.

[01:02:38] To the current sitting vice president.

[01:02:40] Which I find intriguing in and of itself.

[01:02:42] Talking about a power dynamic.

[01:02:45] Um.

[01:02:45] I don't think he said the humbling thing.

[01:02:47] But he definitely is the one who started the whole.

[01:02:50] She doesn't even have kids thing.

[01:02:52] Yeah.

[01:02:52] Um.

[01:02:53] It was another.

[01:02:55] Uh.

[01:02:56] Republican who said the.

[01:02:58] She doesn't have kids to make her humble.

[01:03:00] The specific humble comment.

[01:03:02] But like.

[01:03:05] We're not going to go on to a whole politics tangent.

[01:03:08] Because that'll take up all of our time.

[01:03:09] But.

[01:03:10] Um.

[01:03:11] The idea of women seeking power.

[01:03:13] Is.

[01:03:13] Is very distasteful.

[01:03:15] To some people.

[01:03:16] Just.

[01:03:16] That's it.

[01:03:17] There are people who will not vote for Kamala Harris.

[01:03:20] Simply because she's a woman.

[01:03:22] And they don't think women should be in charge of things.

[01:03:24] And that's it.

[01:03:25] That's full stop.

[01:03:26] They don't think about it deeper than that.

[01:03:28] They're done.

[01:03:28] At that point.

[01:03:29] They're like.

[01:03:29] It shouldn't be a woman.

[01:03:30] Women president.

[01:03:31] No.

[01:03:32] And.

[01:03:33] As a woman.

[01:03:34] I can't live with that.

[01:03:41] Yeah.

[01:03:41] Well.

[01:03:41] I.

[01:03:41] There's a parallel to.

[01:03:42] To.

[01:03:43] To the show.

[01:03:44] In that.

[01:03:45] Many people would say.

[01:03:46] It's ungodlike.

[01:03:48] In our society today.

[01:03:49] And I think if you.

[01:03:50] If you.

[01:03:51] You want to talk about the unconventional storytelling of this show.

[01:03:54] Um.

[01:03:55] I think that.

[01:03:55] You know.

[01:03:56] Going back to the Salem witch trials.

[01:03:58] Very much.

[01:04:00] Connected to.

[01:04:01] Um.

[01:04:02] The patriarchal system.

[01:04:03] In which most of our religions are tied into.

[01:04:06] Um.

[01:04:06] Women in powers.

[01:04:08] Ungodlike.

[01:04:08] Right.

[01:04:09] Like God is in the vision of a man.

[01:04:11] And.

[01:04:11] And most conventional.

[01:04:13] Religions today.

[01:04:14] Um.

[01:04:14] Christian religions.

[01:04:15] Specifically here.

[01:04:17] And again.

[01:04:17] I don't want to.

[01:04:18] I don't want to start traipsing down the path of.

[01:04:21] Politicalness.

[01:04:22] Um.

[01:04:22] Religious tropes.

[01:04:23] But when you talk about a coven.

[01:04:25] And you talk about witches.

[01:04:26] It's hard.

[01:04:26] And you talk about a group following them.

[01:04:28] Called the Salem seven.

[01:04:29] And you.

[01:04:29] Go back to Salem in 1693.

[01:04:32] To see.

[01:04:32] The roots of Agatha.

[01:04:34] It.

[01:04:34] It.

[01:04:35] It's very much connective.

[01:04:36] And very much.

[01:04:37] Yeah.

[01:04:37] I believe what Jack Schaefer is trying to tell in this story.

[01:04:41] That.

[01:04:41] All of these women have power.

[01:04:43] And.

[01:04:45] Probably tragically.

[01:04:46] So.

[01:04:47] Have not been able to utilize that power.

[01:04:49] At all in their lives.

[01:04:51] For various degrees of reasons.

[01:04:53] That.

[01:04:54] Um.

[01:04:54] Whether or not.

[01:04:55] They were.

[01:04:56] They put like.

[01:04:57] Like Lillia's character.

[01:04:59] Kind of did that to herself.

[01:05:01] Many of these other characters.

[01:05:03] Didn't.

[01:05:04] And I think that the.

[01:05:05] The parallels to.

[01:05:06] To society is very.

[01:05:07] Very clear.

[01:05:08] And until Wanda.

[01:05:11] Trapped Agatha.

[01:05:12] In.

[01:05:13] That spell.

[01:05:14] In Westview.

[01:05:15] Mm-hmm.

[01:05:15] Agatha.

[01:05:16] Was herself vilified by.

[01:05:18] All these other.

[01:05:20] Witches.

[01:05:20] Because she was.

[01:05:22] Freely exercising.

[01:05:23] And seeking power.

[01:05:24] Throughout her life.

[01:05:25] After she killed her coven.

[01:05:27] We don't have any evidence.

[01:05:28] To suggest that she ever.

[01:05:30] Felt like she couldn't.

[01:05:31] Keep pursuing power.

[01:05:32] Right.

[01:05:32] In Wanda Vision.

[01:05:33] She's.

[01:05:34] She's there fully.

[01:05:35] Because Wanda is powerful.

[01:05:36] And she's like.

[01:05:37] I want that power.

[01:05:38] I want to know what that power.

[01:05:39] Is all about.

[01:05:40] And these other women.

[01:05:42] Who had various ways.

[01:05:43] Have been stifled in their life.

[01:05:45] Jen has been literally.

[01:05:46] Bound by some man.

[01:05:47] Who didn't like her.

[01:05:49] Being a midwife.

[01:05:50] Lillia says.

[01:05:51] She's been chased.

[01:05:52] Out of every town.

[01:05:52] She's ever been in.

[01:05:54] And she says to her maestra.

[01:05:55] It's better to isolate.

[01:05:56] It's better to be a fraud.

[01:05:57] Than it is to be.

[01:05:59] Vilified as a witch.

[01:06:00] It's better to be alone.

[01:06:01] And Alice.

[01:06:02] Her mother bound her.

[01:06:04] For her own protection.

[01:06:05] I mean not bound.

[01:06:06] But like.

[01:06:07] Something about all the.

[01:06:08] Protective spells.

[01:06:09] That were on Alice.

[01:06:10] Was keeping her from.

[01:06:11] Realizing her own power.

[01:06:12] And it was for her own protection.

[01:06:14] But it also kept her.

[01:06:15] From finding her own power.

[01:06:17] Right.

[01:06:17] So all these women.

[01:06:18] Have been held back.

[01:06:19] In different ways.

[01:06:20] And they resent.

[01:06:21] The expletive.

[01:06:23] Out of Agatha.

[01:06:23] Because she's been.

[01:06:24] Pursuing her power.

[01:06:25] All this time.

[01:06:26] Like they all hate her.

[01:06:27] Not just because they think.

[01:06:28] She's a killer.

[01:06:29] Of other witches.

[01:06:30] But they resent her freedom.

[01:06:32] That she's had.

[01:06:34] And.

[01:06:35] And vilify her for it.

[01:06:36] And I think that.

[01:06:38] They.

[01:06:38] At this point in the story.

[01:06:40] Lilia is the only one.

[01:06:41] Who seems to.

[01:06:42] Not hate Agatha anymore.

[01:06:44] Like.

[01:06:45] You know.

[01:06:45] Teen started out.

[01:06:47] Being a little wide-eyed.

[01:06:48] And naive about Agatha.

[01:06:49] Right.

[01:06:49] He's like.

[01:06:49] I know what people say about her.

[01:06:51] But.

[01:06:52] Jen.

[01:06:54] Has been being like.

[01:06:55] She's a serial killer.

[01:06:56] Like.

[01:06:56] She's a horrible person.

[01:06:58] The whole time.

[01:06:59] And.

[01:07:00] Lilia seems.

[01:07:01] At the end.

[01:07:01] She's like.

[01:07:02] I need to go help.

[01:07:03] Agatha.

[01:07:03] And teen.

[01:07:04] She's not like.

[01:07:05] I have to help teen.

[01:07:06] And Agatha is also going to be there.

[01:07:08] I think she.

[01:07:09] Because of her own.

[01:07:10] Self-actualization.

[01:07:12] Has realized.

[01:07:13] That maybe.

[01:07:14] Agatha.

[01:07:15] Isn't.

[01:07:15] As bad.

[01:07:16] As everyone has made her out to be.

[01:07:17] Maybe she's also a victim.

[01:07:19] Of this patriarchal system.

[01:07:20] Just in a different way.

[01:07:21] Same thing with Alice.

[01:07:22] Alice decided.

[01:07:23] To try to save.

[01:07:25] Agatha.

[01:07:25] And that's.

[01:07:26] Sadly what got her killed.

[01:07:27] But.

[01:07:28] It was also.

[01:07:28] This moment.

[01:07:29] Where she.

[01:07:30] Accepted Agatha.

[01:07:31] As a full member.

[01:07:32] Of the coven.

[01:07:33] That she was also in.

[01:07:34] Well.

[01:07:35] And.

[01:07:35] I'm curious.

[01:07:36] Where we're going.

[01:07:37] Because I don't want.

[01:07:38] The moral of the story.

[01:07:40] To be that like.

[01:07:41] When women are.

[01:07:42] Finally getting.

[01:07:43] Their power.

[01:07:44] And accepting each other.

[01:07:45] They die.

[01:07:46] Like I really don't want that.

[01:07:47] To be the ending.

[01:07:48] Well.

[01:07:49] There's still.

[01:07:49] Well.

[01:07:49] There's still a long ways.

[01:07:50] To go in this series.

[01:07:51] Because.

[01:07:52] I.

[01:07:55] We've.

[01:07:57] We don't.

[01:07:58] I don't.

[01:08:00] Necessarily think.

[01:08:00] We've seen the last.

[01:08:01] Of all of these characters.

[01:08:02] And we can.

[01:08:03] Talk about the nuts.

[01:08:04] And the bolts.

[01:08:04] Of this episode.

[01:08:05] Here in a second.

[01:08:06] I keep clinging to the song.

[01:08:07] That.

[01:08:08] I'll see you at the end.

[01:08:09] I'll see you at the end.

[01:08:10] I'll see you at the end.

[01:08:10] Yeah.

[01:08:11] Well and that can mean.

[01:08:11] A lot of different things.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:14] It could mean death.

[01:08:15] Also death's hand in mine.

[01:08:16] Yeah.

[01:08:17] You know.

[01:08:18] Every.

[01:08:18] Every path leads to death.

[01:08:19] Which could mean a multitude.

[01:08:20] Of things.

[01:08:21] Here.

[01:08:23] So.

[01:08:25] Let's nuts and bolts.

[01:08:26] This a little bit.

[01:08:27] I.

[01:08:27] I want to talk about.

[01:08:28] One scene specifically.

[01:08:29] Because.

[01:08:32] When.

[01:08:33] Lilia makes the choice.

[01:08:34] To go save.

[01:08:35] Teen.

[01:08:36] Billy.

[01:08:37] I don't even know.

[01:08:37] What to call him anymore.

[01:08:38] I.

[01:08:38] I almost revert to Joe.

[01:08:40] Almost every single time.

[01:08:41] But.

[01:08:42] Well.

[01:08:42] I'll just go with Billy.

[01:08:43] Well.

[01:08:43] No.

[01:08:44] I'll call him teenager.

[01:08:45] For the best.

[01:08:46] I think.

[01:08:47] The.

[01:08:48] The.

[01:08:48] The best line of the whole.

[01:08:50] Again.

[01:08:52] Just wonderful little quips.

[01:08:54] In this movie.

[01:08:54] But maybe we get Jack Schafer.

[01:08:56] To do a Spider-Man movie.

[01:08:57] But.

[01:08:59] The.

[01:09:00] When Lilia goes back.

[01:09:02] She.

[01:09:04] Whether.

[01:09:05] I don't know that she knows.

[01:09:07] Agatha's fully tragic story.

[01:09:09] But.

[01:09:09] When she goes back.

[01:09:11] She.

[01:09:12] Finds out about it.

[01:09:13] In.

[01:09:13] In a way that I.

[01:09:14] It was very satisfying for me.

[01:09:16] Because unlike you.

[01:09:16] I know nothing about tarot cards.

[01:09:18] And me trying to read into the tarot cards.

[01:09:20] Just gets me confused.

[01:09:21] What I loved about this episode.

[01:09:23] Is we get kind of that detective ending.

[01:09:25] Where she goes back.

[01:09:26] And she realizes.

[01:09:28] She needs to read.

[01:09:29] Her own.

[01:09:32] Tarot.

[01:09:33] And she sits down at the table.

[01:09:35] And.

[01:09:35] And I want to walk through these.

[01:09:36] Because.

[01:09:37] We get to learn about all of our.

[01:09:40] Our coven.

[01:09:41] And for the first time.

[01:09:42] I felt like.

[01:09:42] Oh I get it.

[01:09:43] I get it.

[01:09:44] She talks.

[01:09:45] She reads her own card first.

[01:09:47] I'm the young Lilia.

[01:09:48] The queen of cups.

[01:09:51] Empathetic.

[01:09:52] Intuitive.

[01:09:53] Inner voice.

[01:09:54] To be trusted.

[01:09:54] Which she has not done.

[01:09:56] Since she was little.

[01:10:00] What's missing.

[01:10:01] She pulls the three of pentacles.

[01:10:05] Where she realizes.

[01:10:07] That what was missing for her.

[01:10:08] Was the coven.

[01:10:09] Collaboration.

[01:10:10] Community.

[01:10:11] Singular voices.

[01:10:12] Waiting to harmonize.

[01:10:14] And I'm like.

[01:10:15] I'm like.

[01:10:15] Weeping.

[01:10:16] While I'm.

[01:10:16] I'm watching all of this.

[01:10:18] And.

[01:10:19] She says.

[01:10:20] I needed you.

[01:10:20] My coven.

[01:10:22] Good.

[01:10:22] That's gracious.

[01:10:23] We're both going to cry.

[01:10:24] This episode.

[01:10:25] Path behind.

[01:10:27] We get to see Alice again.

[01:10:28] Which made me so sad.

[01:10:30] Because.

[01:10:30] This sort of confirms for me.

[01:10:32] That she's.

[01:10:33] Like dead dead.

[01:10:34] I guess I have to say it twice.

[01:10:36] To confirm it for me.

[01:10:37] Even though I don't think.

[01:10:39] We're.

[01:10:39] I do think we're going to see her again.

[01:10:41] But we can get into that in a second.

[01:10:46] About.

[01:10:46] Alice full of fire.

[01:10:48] Fights bravely.

[01:10:49] And I want to talk about that really quickly.

[01:10:51] Because.

[01:10:52] It occurs to me.

[01:10:53] She reacts to her.

[01:10:55] Her power.

[01:10:56] Very similarly to.

[01:10:59] Agatha.

[01:11:00] When she first finds out her power.

[01:11:02] They have very similar.

[01:11:03] Reactions.

[01:11:04] She's like.

[01:11:05] What's happening?

[01:11:05] Whoa.

[01:11:06] This is cool.

[01:11:07] Yeah.

[01:11:08] I don't know why this was my favorite.

[01:11:10] Of all of them.

[01:11:12] But the path.

[01:11:12] Path ahead.

[01:11:13] Was Jen.

[01:11:14] As a high priestess.

[01:11:15] And you noted this.

[01:11:17] Way back when.

[01:11:18] When she.

[01:11:19] And that.

[01:11:20] That framing of her.

[01:11:21] Standing in front of that.

[01:11:23] That wall.

[01:11:24] And.

[01:11:24] And her.

[01:11:25] And her trial.

[01:11:26] With the.

[01:11:27] With.

[01:11:28] With light behind it.

[01:11:29] Very much like the card.

[01:11:30] That we saw.

[01:11:32] And she said.

[01:11:33] Immense.

[01:11:34] Spiritual power.

[01:11:35] Unable.

[01:11:36] Or unwilling.

[01:11:37] To use it.

[01:11:38] That seemed.

[01:11:39] Yeah.

[01:11:39] Key to me.

[01:11:40] And then.

[01:11:42] Obstacles.

[01:11:44] And this.

[01:11:44] I.

[01:11:45] You know.

[01:11:46] Again.

[01:11:46] We talked about the framing.

[01:11:48] Of.

[01:11:49] Of Agatha.

[01:11:50] Back.

[01:11:50] When.

[01:11:51] But the three of swords.

[01:11:52] We get to see.

[01:11:54] The teen hurt.

[01:11:55] And Agatha's trial.

[01:11:57] Heartbreak.

[01:11:59] Sorrow.

[01:12:00] Grief.

[01:12:01] So.

[01:12:02] And I.

[01:12:03] I took that as a double meaning.

[01:12:05] Obviously Agatha.

[01:12:07] Has.

[01:12:07] Is an obstacle.

[01:12:09] I think in many ways.

[01:12:10] In their head.

[01:12:11] Of what they're doing.

[01:12:12] But also.

[01:12:13] The obstacles.

[01:12:14] For Agatha.

[01:12:15] Have been.

[01:12:16] Her heartbreak.

[01:12:17] Her sorrow.

[01:12:17] Her grief.

[01:12:18] And.

[01:12:19] Her clearly hiding behind.

[01:12:21] All of that.

[01:12:22] Throughout her life.

[01:12:23] Um.

[01:12:24] I almost.

[01:12:25] I almost.

[01:12:26] Am.

[01:12:27] Content.

[01:12:28] With.

[01:12:29] Agatha's story.

[01:12:30] I don't want to know anymore.

[01:12:31] About her past.

[01:12:32] In a sense that.

[01:12:35] I think just leaving it vague.

[01:12:37] In the back.

[01:12:37] The serial killer part.

[01:12:38] Her being with death.

[01:12:39] I still think we're gonna get a little backstory on that.

[01:12:41] But.

[01:12:41] I don't need to know certain things.

[01:12:43] I.

[01:12:43] I'm okay with her.

[01:12:45] As who she is.

[01:12:46] Because I think the story that's left to tell for Agatha.

[01:12:49] Is going to be.

[01:12:49] Beautiful.

[01:12:50] And heartbreaking.

[01:12:50] Um.

[01:12:51] In a.

[01:12:52] In a.

[01:12:53] Tragic sense.

[01:12:53] And then.

[01:12:54] The windfall.

[01:12:56] Um.

[01:12:56] The tower reversed.

[01:12:58] Uh.

[01:12:58] The.

[01:12:59] We get to see that crystal ball.

[01:13:01] That we were talking about.

[01:13:02] With.

[01:13:02] The tower upside down.

[01:13:05] Disaster.

[01:13:05] Destruction.

[01:13:06] Sudden upheaval.

[01:13:07] Unless it's flipped.

[01:13:09] In which case.

[01:13:10] Miraculous transformation.

[01:13:12] And this was for of course.

[01:13:14] Um.

[01:13:14] Our fifth witch.

[01:13:16] Uh.

[01:13:16] Which is.

[01:13:17] Is.

[01:13:18] I would assume to mean that.

[01:13:20] We.

[01:13:21] Our fifth witch is.

[01:13:22] Is.

[01:13:23] Billy.

[01:13:24] Um.

[01:13:24] So.

[01:13:26] I.

[01:13:27] I feel like I know these.

[01:13:29] These.

[01:13:30] These witches now.

[01:13:31] Including Billy.

[01:13:33] Who.

[01:13:35] I don't think.

[01:13:36] We got Billy's backstory.

[01:13:38] But that wasn't his trial.

[01:13:40] So.

[01:13:41] Correct me if I'm wrong.

[01:13:42] But we still need to see his trial.

[01:13:43] Correct?

[01:13:45] Yeah.

[01:13:46] It's.

[01:13:46] It's been interesting to me all along.

[01:13:48] That.

[01:13:48] You know.

[01:13:49] He.

[01:13:49] He asked Agatha.

[01:13:50] To take him on the road.

[01:13:52] And then.

[01:13:52] He went with her.

[01:13:53] When she went around.

[01:13:54] Gathering up the coven.

[01:13:55] But she very carefully was like.

[01:13:57] He's my pet.

[01:13:57] He's my familiar.

[01:13:58] And then he wasn't in the room.

[01:14:00] When they were singing.

[01:14:01] But he is the first one.

[01:14:02] To enter the road.

[01:14:04] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:04] He's on the road with them.

[01:14:05] But he's not technically in the coven.

[01:14:08] Mm-hmm.

[01:14:08] But he is de facto in the coven.

[01:14:10] Because he's with them all along.

[01:14:12] And he only just found his power.

[01:14:14] So.

[01:14:14] Like.

[01:14:15] Like.

[01:14:15] He's got to have a trial.

[01:14:16] If he's going to get to the end.

[01:14:19] But.

[01:14:20] But he's not in the coven.

[01:14:22] But he is in the coven.

[01:14:23] I don't know what to make of it.

[01:14:24] That's why I haven't been bringing it up.

[01:14:26] But it's interesting.

[01:14:27] Yeah.

[01:14:27] I.

[01:14:27] I.

[01:14:29] And.

[01:14:30] For the first time.

[01:14:32] I think in the series.

[01:14:33] We were giving very tangible.

[01:14:36] Things to look for.

[01:14:39] As Lilia.

[01:14:40] Thank you, Lilia.

[01:14:41] Thank you.

[01:14:42] Thank you, Lilia.

[01:14:43] Because.

[01:14:43] I feel so much.

[01:14:45] Like.

[01:14:45] Now I feel like.

[01:14:46] Okay.

[01:14:47] We've got two more episodes.

[01:14:48] And I'm ready to go now.

[01:14:49] I know.

[01:14:49] I know what tools I need.

[01:14:51] As they walk out.

[01:14:53] She says.

[01:14:55] She talks to each one of them.

[01:14:57] And before she goes on to battle.

[01:15:00] The Salem Seven.

[01:15:02] And.

[01:15:02] I.

[01:15:03] Do I have it here?

[01:15:04] Do you have it?

[01:15:05] Which.

[01:15:05] Oh, yeah.

[01:15:06] So.

[01:15:06] Oh, yeah.

[01:15:07] I do.

[01:15:07] I have the sound clip.

[01:15:08] Do you want to.

[01:15:09] Yeah.

[01:15:09] Play the sound clip.

[01:15:10] Because it's going to be way much better in their voices.

[01:15:13] But this to me.

[01:15:15] Was.

[01:15:16] The first time that the series.

[01:15:19] Is giving us.

[01:15:20] The clues.

[01:15:21] And saying.

[01:15:22] Remember this.

[01:15:23] Whereas before.

[01:15:24] We were just sort of like.

[01:15:25] It's like we needed Lilia.

[01:15:27] To put it all together for herself.

[01:15:29] So that she could put it together for us.

[01:15:31] So we still have mystery going forward.

[01:15:33] But she gives us the tools.

[01:15:35] That they'll need.

[01:15:36] I think going forward.

[01:15:38] When she calls you a coward.

[01:15:39] Hit the deck.

[01:15:40] What?

[01:15:41] Go.

[01:15:46] Magic.

[01:15:47] Thank you.

[01:15:50] I'm not going before you.

[01:15:51] You're the path ahead, Jennifer.

[01:15:54] Oh.

[01:15:55] Lilia.

[01:15:55] I loved being a witch.

[01:15:58] No.

[01:16:05] I don't mean to laugh.

[01:16:07] It's just so much.

[01:16:12] You may not know this about the road.

[01:16:15] But when you successfully complete a trial.

[01:16:22] Like I just did.

[01:16:28] It's not a good idea.

[01:16:32] To overstay your welcome.

[01:16:35] Usually.

[01:16:37] Usually.

[01:16:37] Something terrible happens.

[01:16:42] Disaster.

[01:16:43] Destruction.

[01:16:46] Sudden upheaval.

[01:16:53] All right.

[01:16:59] First of all, I titled that sound clip.

[01:17:01] Lilia's badass exit.

[01:17:06] I loved her goodbyes to each person.

[01:17:09] Giving them what they need for the road ahead.

[01:17:11] You're exactly right.

[01:17:12] Right?

[01:17:12] Like Agatha, here's a specific warning.

[01:17:15] Billy, here's your spell book back.

[01:17:17] Jennifer, you're the path ahead.

[01:17:19] No explanation for what that means.

[01:17:20] Just you're the path ahead.

[01:17:22] And she's like, what?

[01:17:23] What's happening?

[01:17:23] And I'm sorry.

[01:17:24] I loved being a witch.

[01:17:26] I cried.

[01:17:28] And then.

[01:17:29] Because.

[01:17:30] The rest of it.

[01:17:30] Couldn't you argue that she didn't realize how much she loved being a witch until that moment?

[01:17:36] Because.

[01:17:36] Exactly.

[01:17:37] She definitively did not seem like she loved it very much.

[01:17:41] Pretending to be this.

[01:17:43] Tarot card reader.

[01:17:45] And every.

[01:17:45] Person.

[01:17:46] Parody sense of the word.

[01:17:47] Yeah.

[01:17:47] She was a parody of who she really was.

[01:17:51] And she.

[01:17:52] She's so fully self-actualized in that moment.

[01:17:55] She's so in control.

[01:17:56] She knows exactly what she's going to do.

[01:17:57] She stands her ground with the Salem Seven without twitching or showing any fear in that moment.

[01:18:04] It's so beautiful.

[01:18:05] And they were full on Salem Sevening.

[01:18:07] Yeah.

[01:18:08] Yeah.

[01:18:08] They were so scary.

[01:18:10] And then when the.

[01:18:11] When she flips the card and the room starts to tilt or gravity reverses or whatever it is that happens in that moment.

[01:18:17] And it's sort of slow motion.

[01:18:19] And.

[01:18:20] And the Salem Seven all fall on the swords and the sound it makes.

[01:18:24] It's like.

[01:18:24] Shook.

[01:18:24] Shook.

[01:18:25] Shook.

[01:18:26] And it's so satisfying.

[01:18:27] Right.

[01:18:28] You're like.

[01:18:28] Well that's the end of the Salem Seven.

[01:18:30] Like.

[01:18:31] Like.

[01:18:31] Man.

[01:18:32] Girl.

[01:18:32] You just.

[01:18:33] Like.

[01:18:33] That's an amazing power you just showed.

[01:18:35] And then when she releases.

[01:18:38] And she slow motion falls in that ridiculous Glinda outfit.

[01:18:43] And.

[01:18:44] And you remember that we've seen her falling before.

[01:18:47] And like you said.

[01:18:47] She looked afraid at first.

[01:18:49] But then when we see her this time.

[01:18:51] The look on her face is full acceptance.

[01:18:55] And.

[01:18:55] And intentionality.

[01:18:57] Which I think is the heart of magic.

[01:18:59] Is.

[01:18:59] Is will or intention.

[01:19:01] Right.

[01:19:02] It's.

[01:19:02] It's not an accident.

[01:19:04] It's about.

[01:19:05] It's about willing things.

[01:19:06] Things.

[01:19:06] And.

[01:19:07] Her will was to end the Salem Seven.

[01:19:10] To provide.

[01:19:11] Safety for her coven.

[01:19:13] To save them.

[01:19:14] And.

[01:19:15] She knew she had accomplished it.

[01:19:17] And so she was at peace in that moment.

[01:19:19] And also.

[01:19:20] I don't think she experiences the sword.

[01:19:22] I think she has left her body.

[01:19:24] And gone.

[01:19:25] To her child self.

[01:19:27] Already.

[01:19:28] So I don't think she had the pain of the actual death.

[01:19:30] Yeah.

[01:19:31] I don't think she experiences that.

[01:19:32] Well I'm glad.

[01:19:33] Because we don't see it.

[01:19:36] Um.

[01:19:37] I.

[01:19:38] Uh.

[01:19:40] I happened the other day.

[01:19:42] So.

[01:19:42] I'd watched it a couple of times.

[01:19:44] And I had a certain feeling about the end.

[01:19:46] It was a positive feeling.

[01:19:48] But it was not what it turned into for me.

[01:19:50] I was watching.

[01:19:51] I just sort of caught.

[01:19:54] Um.

[01:19:55] One night I was kind of flipping through the channels.

[01:19:56] And the equalizer with Denzel Washington was on.

[01:19:59] It's not really a Jim and Pete movie.

[01:20:01] But you know.

[01:20:02] I.

[01:20:03] There's a scene that I.

[01:20:04] I love for.

[01:20:05] Just kind of.

[01:20:07] Good feeling.

[01:20:08] Um.

[01:20:09] Um.

[01:20:10] The kind of notes that it gives for me.

[01:20:12] Not because it's like a happy moment.

[01:20:13] But because it's like a rah-rah moment.

[01:20:15] There's a moment in the first equalizer.

[01:20:18] Where he.

[01:20:19] First kind of.

[01:20:21] Does his thing.

[01:20:22] We haven't seen it yet.

[01:20:23] Uh.

[01:20:24] You know.

[01:20:25] He's.

[01:20:26] You know.

[01:20:27] Someone who can kill very easily.

[01:20:29] But we don't.

[01:20:30] We don't.

[01:20:30] Kind.

[01:20:31] We don't completely know that yet.

[01:20:32] And he's in this room with a bunch of.

[01:20:34] Of.

[01:20:35] You know.

[01:20:35] It's the Russian.

[01:20:36] Let's talk about a parody.

[01:20:37] A bunch of like Russian.

[01:20:39] Like muscle men.

[01:20:40] And.

[01:20:41] Um.

[01:20:41] He.

[01:20:42] He's leaving.

[01:20:43] Without having done anything.

[01:20:46] And he.

[01:20:47] Shut.

[01:20:47] He opens the door.

[01:20:49] And they keep yapping behind him.

[01:20:51] And he stops for a second.

[01:20:53] Kind of twitches.

[01:20:54] And then he shuts the door.

[01:20:55] And he locks it.

[01:20:57] And I was watching that.

[01:20:59] And I didn't even watch the whole rest of the episode.

[01:21:01] But the minute.

[01:21:01] I.

[01:21:02] The minute I saw that.

[01:21:03] I was like.

[01:21:04] Huh.

[01:21:04] That's exactly what Lilia just did.

[01:21:07] And.

[01:21:07] Yeah.

[01:21:08] It transformed that last scene for me.

[01:21:10] I watched it again with a clear.

[01:21:12] A clear.

[01:21:13] Because.

[01:21:14] Again.

[01:21:14] Lilia is not.

[01:21:15] You're not picturing.

[01:21:16] Lilia.

[01:21:17] I think why I like Denzel in that.

[01:21:18] That role is that he's never really portrayed somebody like that.

[01:21:22] And.

[01:21:23] Again.

[01:21:23] Lilia.

[01:21:24] Very much like Rambo.

[01:21:27] She.

[01:21:28] Not only is shutting that door to save her coven.

[01:21:31] But she's shutting that door to kick some ass.

[01:21:34] Like.

[01:21:34] Let's just get down to it.

[01:21:36] She knows exactly what she's going to do.

[01:21:38] She knows exactly how she's going to do it.

[01:21:41] I do want to note though.

[01:21:43] You know.

[01:21:43] It's funny.

[01:21:44] I don't know if you did this on purpose.

[01:21:46] But you made the exact same number of splats.

[01:21:49] That were in.

[01:21:50] There were only five splats.

[01:21:52] Mm-hmm.

[01:21:53] I don't know that they're all bad.

[01:21:54] I didn't do that on purpose.

[01:21:56] There were.

[01:21:57] There were only five splats.

[01:21:59] And I don't know.

[01:22:00] It probably doesn't mean anything.

[01:22:02] Yeah.

[01:22:03] But you only ever see five.

[01:22:04] Five.

[01:22:05] I do think they're all dead.

[01:22:07] But just keep that in the back of your mind for these last two episodes.

[01:22:10] Because I like that the Salem Seven turned out not to be very important.

[01:22:18] You know.

[01:22:18] We don't.

[01:22:19] They're just a catalyst.

[01:22:21] Yeah.

[01:22:21] And she just.

[01:22:25] She's so powerful in the end of this.

[01:22:28] That she just flips a card.

[01:22:31] And literally watches them die.

[01:22:35] Which I shouldn't be laughing about.

[01:22:37] I love also that.

[01:22:38] That her power in the end isn't about blasting them with.

[01:22:43] You know.

[01:22:44] Like light.

[01:22:44] The way that a lot of witch power is shown in movies and TV shows.

[01:22:48] Her power in the end is self-knowledge.

[01:22:52] And clear-headed decision making.

[01:22:54] Right.

[01:22:55] She's like.

[01:22:55] I know what I'm going to do.

[01:22:56] And she's.

[01:22:57] I'm at peace with it.

[01:22:58] And I'm going to just efficiently do what I need to do to solve this problem.

[01:23:02] And she's.

[01:23:03] You know.

[01:23:04] She efficiently.

[01:23:05] Quickly says goodbye to her people.

[01:23:07] And she turns around.

[01:23:09] And she does what she's going to do.

[01:23:10] And without hesitation.

[01:23:12] Without flinching.

[01:23:13] But it's.

[01:23:14] It's not about physical strength.

[01:23:17] It's not about blasting the Salem Seven.

[01:23:19] It's about.

[01:23:23] It's about self-sacrifice in the most pure sense.

[01:23:27] Yeah.

[01:23:29] That's for sure.

[01:23:30] And I'll never get over the cinematography of it.

[01:23:33] It was so beautiful watching them fall through the air.

[01:23:36] And falling on those swords.

[01:23:38] How you can make people being impaled on swords beautiful.

[01:23:42] I don't know.

[01:23:42] I don't know.

[01:23:42] Jack Schaefer.

[01:23:43] You magician.

[01:23:44] Like that's amazing.

[01:23:45] And.

[01:23:46] And then her falling sort of eternally through that dark space.

[01:23:50] In the ridiculous Glinda costume was just.

[01:23:52] Amazing.

[01:23:54] Amazing.

[01:23:55] So.

[01:23:56] The Salem Seven.

[01:23:58] The casting of that.

[01:23:59] We've talked about them before.

[01:24:00] Was so beautiful.

[01:24:01] Every time.

[01:24:02] As scary as they are.

[01:24:06] Every time they're in a shot.

[01:24:08] Aside from those clicky.

[01:24:13] Scared Jim out of his like clothes.

[01:24:16] Kind of things that they do.

[01:24:17] But when they're moving together.

[01:24:19] It very much reminds me of synchronized swimming.

[01:24:21] It very much reminds me of beautiful dance.

[01:24:24] They.

[01:24:25] They cast.

[01:24:26] And this is how perfect the show is.

[01:24:29] This is where you can tell.

[01:24:31] That.

[01:24:33] Someone's spending money the right way.

[01:24:35] Because.

[01:24:36] You didn't have.

[01:24:38] You could have just made them clicky scary.

[01:24:40] That would have been fine.

[01:24:42] But we're.

[01:24:43] They were also graceful.

[01:24:44] Yes.

[01:24:45] And not in a fun way.

[01:24:47] A graceful.

[01:24:48] And how.

[01:24:49] The.

[01:24:49] The.

[01:24:50] Costumes that they have.

[01:24:51] Like I can't.

[01:24:52] I can't make hide nor hair.

[01:24:55] Of what.

[01:24:56] They had.

[01:24:57] They had some kind of cloak.

[01:24:58] I thought they were moving backwards.

[01:25:00] But maybe they were moving.

[01:25:01] I just.

[01:25:02] Whatever they were doing.

[01:25:04] It scared the crap out of me.

[01:25:05] Everything that they've done.

[01:25:07] Scared the crap out of me.

[01:25:08] Lillia saved me.

[01:25:09] Because the minute I realized.

[01:25:10] What she was going to do.

[01:25:11] I was like.

[01:25:13] Is she.

[01:25:14] It was almost disbelief.

[01:25:16] Like.

[01:25:16] Oh my gosh.

[01:25:17] She's going to kill them all right here.

[01:25:19] I was like.

[01:25:20] Okay.

[01:25:21] They really are clearing the decks.

[01:25:23] No pun intended.

[01:25:24] To move us forward.

[01:25:25] For these last two episodes.

[01:25:27] I.

[01:25:29] I couldn't be more happier.

[01:25:31] And content with.

[01:25:31] I just.

[01:25:32] I don't.

[01:25:33] There hasn't been too much television.

[01:25:34] That in one episode.

[01:25:35] Has it made me feel so satisfied.

[01:25:37] I don't know that there was ever.

[01:25:39] An episode of loss.

[01:25:40] That made me feel.

[01:25:41] Satisfied.

[01:25:42] And I'm not saying.

[01:25:43] I like this show.

[01:25:43] As much as that.

[01:25:44] But I.

[01:25:45] As I was telling you.

[01:25:46] Off air.

[01:25:47] Yesterday.

[01:25:48] Or the day before.

[01:25:48] I.

[01:25:49] This very well.

[01:25:50] Right now.

[01:25:51] Not very well could be.

[01:25:52] This is my favorite show of the year.

[01:25:53] Up to this point.

[01:25:54] I still have.

[01:25:55] I still have some shows.

[01:25:56] To catch up on.

[01:25:57] But.

[01:25:59] I.

[01:26:04] Shogun.

[01:26:05] Yes.

[01:26:05] So very much.

[01:26:06] Yeah.

[01:26:07] And.

[01:26:08] Rings of Power season two.

[01:26:10] Was phenomenal.

[01:26:11] They.

[01:26:12] The three shows for me.

[01:26:14] Have a lot of things in common.

[01:26:16] And the things I love about them.

[01:26:18] Are similar things.

[01:26:21] In that they are asking.

[01:26:23] Deep questions.

[01:26:24] About.

[01:26:25] Power.

[01:26:26] And how.

[01:26:27] And who should seek power.

[01:26:29] And who should wield power.

[01:26:30] And how should they wield power.

[01:26:32] They.

[01:26:33] All three of those shows.

[01:26:35] Feature.

[01:26:37] Women.

[01:26:39] Fully.

[01:26:40] Embracing their own power.

[01:26:42] And.

[01:26:43] Also.

[01:26:44] Acknowledge the limitations.

[01:26:46] Of being a woman.

[01:26:47] In a patriarchal system.

[01:26:49] And.

[01:26:50] Specifically.

[01:26:52] In Shogun.

[01:26:53] Mariko Sama.

[01:26:54] The main.

[01:26:55] Woman character.

[01:26:57] Just.

[01:26:58] Does.

[01:26:58] A master class.

[01:26:59] On how.

[01:27:00] You swish around.

[01:27:01] In a kimono.

[01:27:02] And show power.

[01:27:03] Just in the way.

[01:27:04] That you move your clothes.

[01:27:06] And I'm.

[01:27:07] I'd be shocked.

[01:27:08] If I didn't find out.

[01:27:09] That Catherine Han.

[01:27:10] Watched Shogun.

[01:27:10] And was like.

[01:27:11] Oh.

[01:27:11] I'm going to use that.

[01:27:12] That would make a lot of sense.

[01:27:13] Because the way she moves her coat.

[01:27:15] Is very much.

[01:27:16] Mariko Sama.

[01:27:17] In Shogun.

[01:27:20] This show is special.

[01:27:22] I think.

[01:27:23] And.

[01:27:23] I.

[01:27:24] I think that.

[01:27:25] Much like WandaVision.

[01:27:27] It.

[01:27:28] Is.

[01:27:29] Going to be more powerful.

[01:27:31] When we've seen the whole thing.

[01:27:33] Like you've said all along.

[01:27:34] Like each episode builds.

[01:27:36] And like makes the previous episodes.

[01:27:37] More satisfying.

[01:27:38] And WandaVision was a lot like this too.

[01:27:41] Where the first few episodes were like.

[01:27:42] Oh.

[01:27:43] This is kind of interesting.

[01:27:44] And then you were like.

[01:27:45] Oh.

[01:27:45] I see what they're doing.

[01:27:46] Oh.

[01:27:46] They're doing this more.

[01:27:47] Oh.

[01:27:47] There's more.

[01:27:48] And.

[01:27:49] And by the end.

[01:27:50] The sum of its parts.

[01:27:52] Was greater than.

[01:27:53] No.

[01:27:53] The whole was greater than the sum of its parts.

[01:27:56] Kind of like a coven.

[01:27:57] And.

[01:27:58] And.

[01:27:59] And it's happening again.

[01:28:00] With this show.

[01:28:01] It's Jack Schaefer.

[01:28:02] This seems to be her gift.

[01:28:03] Is this.

[01:28:05] Making a nine episode.

[01:28:08] Story.

[01:28:09] That is both episodic.

[01:28:11] And.

[01:28:12] A complete whole.

[01:28:13] And.

[01:28:14] I love watching it come together.

[01:28:15] I cannot wait for whatever she's going to do next.

[01:28:17] I'm so excited.

[01:28:19] That Jack Schaefer is this.

[01:28:21] And that she's being successful.

[01:28:22] And that the show is success.

[01:28:23] Because that means to me.

[01:28:25] That.

[01:28:26] Marvel.

[01:28:26] And.

[01:28:27] All the other.

[01:28:28] You know.

[01:28:28] Creative studios out in the world.

[01:28:30] Are going to be like.

[01:28:30] Jack Schaefer.

[01:28:31] What do you want to do next?

[01:28:33] Here's some money.

[01:28:34] And like.

[01:28:34] Let her go to town.

[01:28:35] And.

[01:28:36] It's like after Craig Mason.

[01:28:38] Did.

[01:28:39] Chernobyl.

[01:28:40] HBO was like.

[01:28:41] Name it.

[01:28:42] Name what you want to do.

[01:28:43] That was amazing.

[01:28:45] What do you want to do?

[01:28:45] And he was like.

[01:28:46] Well.

[01:28:46] I'd love to do The Last of Us.

[01:28:47] But.

[01:28:48] You know.

[01:28:50] I think that the guy who wrote the video game.

[01:28:52] Is going to do that.

[01:28:53] And the guy who wrote the video game.

[01:28:54] Whose name I have forgotten at the moment.

[01:28:56] Was like.

[01:28:56] No.

[01:28:57] I want to work with Craig Mason.

[01:28:58] And the two of them.

[01:28:59] Like hit it off.

[01:28:59] And it was all great.

[01:29:02] I think.

[01:29:03] Jack Schaefer is.

[01:29:04] Has a lot.

[01:29:06] Left to give us.

[01:29:07] And.

[01:29:07] I am so there for it.

[01:29:09] I just.

[01:29:09] I cannot wait.

[01:29:14] I.

[01:29:15] I definitely can now safely say up to this point.

[01:29:18] I like.

[01:29:20] Agatha.

[01:29:22] All along.

[01:29:23] Better than WandaVision.

[01:29:25] Yeah.

[01:29:25] And.

[01:29:26] Deeper.

[01:29:27] Well.

[01:29:27] So.

[01:29:28] And I.

[01:29:29] I am a.

[01:29:30] I love Matt Shackman too.

[01:29:32] So this is not.

[01:29:33] To be derogatory towards him whatsoever.

[01:29:35] I think.

[01:29:36] Fantastic Four is in great hands.

[01:29:38] But I.

[01:29:40] Jack Schaefer was the head.

[01:29:42] Writer.

[01:29:43] Of.

[01:29:44] Of.

[01:29:44] Of.

[01:29:45] Of WandaVision.

[01:29:46] And Shackman was the showrunner.

[01:29:49] I do wonder.

[01:29:51] Because.

[01:29:52] The depth of this show.

[01:29:54] I think is a little deeper.

[01:29:56] There were some episodes.

[01:29:58] In the beginning.

[01:30:00] There were moments.

[01:30:01] In those early episodes.

[01:30:02] Where.

[01:30:03] Some of it.

[01:30:06] Some of it.

[01:30:07] Wasn't just for the storytelling.

[01:30:09] Some of it was just.

[01:30:11] Hey.

[01:30:12] Here's.

[01:30:13] Here's a.

[01:30:14] 70s sitcom now.

[01:30:15] And here's an 80s sitcom.

[01:30:16] And I get.

[01:30:17] Well.

[01:30:17] We did that.

[01:30:18] But.

[01:30:19] There.

[01:30:19] There was some.

[01:30:21] Wasted space.

[01:30:22] So to speak.

[01:30:23] Yeah.

[01:30:23] Whereas this episode.

[01:30:25] Or this series.

[01:30:27] With.

[01:30:27] With.

[01:30:27] Jack Schaefer.

[01:30:28] Both writing most of it.

[01:30:29] And.

[01:30:30] The showrunner.

[01:30:32] There's not a whole.

[01:30:33] There's not a whole lot of wasted space.

[01:30:36] No.

[01:30:36] Everything.

[01:30:37] Even things.

[01:30:38] I thought.

[01:30:38] Were just.

[01:30:39] A joke or something.

[01:30:40] Yes.

[01:30:40] Earlier.

[01:30:41] Have come.

[01:30:42] To have a payoff.

[01:30:43] Well.

[01:30:43] I don't know that anybody.

[01:30:44] Has paid as much attention.

[01:30:45] To the.

[01:30:46] To the background.

[01:30:46] Than you and I.

[01:30:48] That's not to say.

[01:30:49] That's not out there.

[01:30:50] But.

[01:30:50] I mean.

[01:30:51] I can.

[01:30:51] I.

[01:30:52] I.

[01:30:52] I've never.

[01:30:53] Watched a show.

[01:30:54] As much as I've watched this one.

[01:30:55] Over and over again.

[01:30:56] And still.

[01:30:58] I still feel like.

[01:30:59] I've only watched it once.

[01:31:00] If that makes sense.

[01:31:01] I know that.

[01:31:02] I always see new stuff.

[01:31:04] Yeah.

[01:31:05] Well.

[01:31:05] And you bring up stuff.

[01:31:06] That make me go back.

[01:31:07] And I know I've brought up stuff.

[01:31:08] That made you go back.

[01:31:09] And.

[01:31:10] I know that.

[01:31:12] When we put this.

[01:31:12] You called.

[01:31:13] That Lilia was channeling herself.

[01:31:15] From the future.

[01:31:16] Like three episodes ago.

[01:31:18] Well.

[01:31:18] And then I went back.

[01:31:19] And watched every episode.

[01:31:20] Wrote down every.

[01:31:22] Weird thing she said.

[01:31:23] And was like.

[01:31:23] Yep.

[01:31:24] Jim is 100% correct.

[01:31:25] Well.

[01:31:25] So.

[01:31:26] Let me tell you how ecstatic.

[01:31:28] If you go back.

[01:31:30] For those of you listening to this.

[01:31:31] I do tend to do a play by play.

[01:31:33] Of me watching the show.

[01:31:35] But I can't.

[01:31:36] In a text thread that we have.

[01:31:37] But I can't be fully detailed about it.

[01:31:39] Because.

[01:31:40] We haven't always watched it.

[01:31:42] All of us in the text.

[01:31:42] Or I haven't watched it yet.

[01:31:43] So I have to be very vague.

[01:31:45] But if you go back now.

[01:31:46] And go through those texts.

[01:31:47] I bet you can figure out.

[01:31:48] When I.

[01:31:49] When I realized that I was right.

[01:31:52] I did not go back.

[01:31:53] And pull them all apart.

[01:31:54] Like that.

[01:31:55] But I.

[01:31:55] I.

[01:31:56] When they did.

[01:31:56] And.

[01:31:57] And the fact that they sewed them all together for us.

[01:32:00] Again.

[01:32:00] You didn't have to do that.

[01:32:02] She didn't have to do that.

[01:32:04] But Jack Schaefer.

[01:32:05] Talk about learning from the past.

[01:32:07] Like she's sewing it all together for us.

[01:32:09] In a way that's.

[01:32:11] So ungodly satisfying.

[01:32:12] And refilming it.

[01:32:13] Because those.

[01:32:14] Those were not from the actual.

[01:32:16] Like again.

[01:32:17] There's a little difference.

[01:32:18] They were different shots.

[01:32:19] Yeah.

[01:32:20] Ah.

[01:32:20] So.

[01:32:21] And I wonder.

[01:32:22] Were they just different takes?

[01:32:23] And she goes.

[01:32:24] Oh that'll work for that.

[01:32:25] And oh that'll work for that.

[01:32:26] Or did we do it in a linear.

[01:32:28] Oh.

[01:32:28] So I.

[01:32:29] But I.

[01:32:30] I know that you.

[01:32:31] I would love to have been in the editing room.

[01:32:32] And watched this all come together.

[01:32:35] She.

[01:32:36] I hope she's napped.

[01:32:37] Because.

[01:32:38] I cannot imagine.

[01:32:40] I know I'm ready to nap at the end of this.

[01:32:42] I can't wait to put this down for a while.

[01:32:46] I don't mean that in a way.

[01:32:47] Because I'm so sad that.

[01:32:49] You know.

[01:32:49] In a week.

[01:32:50] We're going to be done.

[01:32:51] Seeing new episodes.

[01:32:52] And it might be the end of.

[01:32:54] It will be the end.

[01:32:56] There's a.

[01:32:57] A synchronicity to the show.

[01:32:58] That I.

[01:32:59] I almost.

[01:33:00] I almost am okay with.

[01:33:02] It being self-contained.

[01:33:04] And knowing that we'll probably have strands of it.

[01:33:06] That impact the MCU going forward.

[01:33:09] But I.

[01:33:10] I know.

[01:33:10] I know you and I well enough to know at this point.

[01:33:12] That we'll put this down.

[01:33:13] I think at the end of.

[01:33:14] When we podcast.

[01:33:16] Eight and nine.

[01:33:18] And then.

[01:33:19] Five or six months from now.

[01:33:22] We'll pull it out again.

[01:33:23] Probably as Vision Quest starts moving towards us.

[01:33:26] Or when other rumors come popping up.

[01:33:28] And we'll watch it again.

[01:33:30] And I know what that text chain is going to look like.

[01:33:33] Because we're going to notice things.

[01:33:35] Just having stepped away from it.

[01:33:37] That we just can't.

[01:33:37] Because we're too immersed in it right now.

[01:33:40] I.

[01:33:42] I.

[01:33:43] They're like.

[01:33:43] When I was a kid.

[01:33:45] There were these maps.

[01:33:46] That were like cartoony maps.

[01:33:48] That had places.

[01:33:49] Like.

[01:33:50] Unique to town.

[01:33:52] There were like town maps.

[01:33:53] Of like Cleveland.

[01:33:53] Where they would show.

[01:33:55] Different parts of Cleveland.

[01:33:56] And every time I would look at them.

[01:33:57] That type of map.

[01:33:58] I would.

[01:33:59] I would see something.

[01:34:00] That I'd never seen before.

[01:34:01] And that's what this show is going to be for me.

[01:34:03] I think going forward.

[01:34:04] And it's shot so well.

[01:34:05] There are so many amazing camera techniques used in this.

[01:34:10] Specifically like page turning techniques.

[01:34:13] As she was leaping from one thing to another.

[01:34:16] As we got to see it all sewn together.

[01:34:18] But one of my favorite.

[01:34:20] My favorite shot of all was.

[01:34:21] Was.

[01:34:22] Was Lilia.

[01:34:23] We were getting sort of a.

[01:34:24] A look at her from behind the teacher.

[01:34:28] And.

[01:34:29] On one side.

[01:34:30] Oh.

[01:34:31] And what was it that she said?

[01:34:33] She said on one side.

[01:34:36] I'm falling.

[01:34:38] And then the camera pans behind.

[01:34:41] The teacher.

[01:34:42] And goes to the other side.

[01:34:44] And she says.

[01:34:45] I'm going to fall.

[01:34:47] Something like that.

[01:34:48] I will fall.

[01:34:49] Yeah.

[01:34:49] That was beautiful.

[01:34:50] I paused it.

[01:34:51] And I was like.

[01:34:52] And it was such a simple technique.

[01:34:54] But it was so powerful.

[01:34:56] And in this episode.

[01:34:58] She does.

[01:34:58] Jack Schaefer.

[01:34:59] And.

[01:35:00] Whoever's working on the cinematography in this.

[01:35:03] We got to get the names for that.

[01:35:05] But.

[01:35:05] How they turn.

[01:35:07] From one thing to another.

[01:35:08] Is so transfixing.

[01:35:10] I could just watch this episode.

[01:35:12] Just to watch how she.

[01:35:14] Does that.

[01:35:15] Because I think that tells a story.

[01:35:17] Of why she does it.

[01:35:18] But I noticed a couple.

[01:35:19] That looked like page turns.

[01:35:21] And I was like.

[01:35:21] Holy crap.

[01:35:22] She's literally turned the page of the book.

[01:35:23] And then.

[01:35:25] I started getting fixated on the bookshelf.

[01:35:27] Because.

[01:35:28] The bookshelf reminded me.

[01:35:30] Have you seen.

[01:35:31] Again.

[01:35:32] Spoilers.

[01:35:32] I don't want to spoil anything.

[01:35:33] So I won't.

[01:35:34] Interstellar.

[01:35:35] Yeah.

[01:35:35] I.

[01:35:36] Because.

[01:35:37] There was a.

[01:35:38] I.

[01:35:38] Yes.

[01:35:39] They kept talking about shelving.

[01:35:41] And I'm like.

[01:35:41] This is dumb.

[01:35:42] This doesn't fit.

[01:35:43] And then when I saw the bookshelves.

[01:35:44] I was like.

[01:35:45] Oh my gosh.

[01:35:46] Am I going to peek through there.

[01:35:47] And see Matthew McConaughey.

[01:35:48] Like looking at a book.

[01:35:49] Like what.

[01:35:50] What am I watching here?

[01:35:51] Like this is insane.

[01:35:53] So.

[01:35:54] Yeah.

[01:35:54] I just.

[01:35:55] The.

[01:35:56] The subtle homages.

[01:35:57] Whether they were on purpose or not.

[01:35:59] The things that it made me touch.

[01:36:00] In the back of my brain.

[01:36:01] Like this nostalgic feel.

[01:36:03] Of other shows.

[01:36:03] The fact that Desmond.

[01:36:05] My favorite character from Lost.

[01:36:07] Went through a very similar journey to Lilia.

[01:36:09] Who I believe is my favorite.

[01:36:10] Her and her and T.

[01:36:12] Billy.

[01:36:13] Are my favorite characters in this.

[01:36:14] But.

[01:36:15] But.

[01:36:15] I don't know.

[01:36:16] Do I have a favorite character?

[01:36:17] Because I know I've.

[01:36:17] I've said.

[01:36:18] I think every character at this point.

[01:36:20] So.

[01:36:20] No.

[01:36:21] This is not being.

[01:36:22] Me being on the fence.

[01:36:24] Just love them all so much.

[01:36:25] It's just that they're all so lovable.

[01:36:26] Yeah.

[01:36:27] So the cinematography for the whole series.

[01:36:31] This is interesting.

[01:36:32] Because it says.

[01:36:33] Caleb Heyman.

[01:36:34] Did six episodes.

[01:36:36] John Chama.

[01:36:37] Or Kama.

[01:36:38] One episode.

[01:36:39] Isaiah Dante Lee.

[01:36:40] One episode.

[01:36:41] That adds up to eight.

[01:36:42] But there's nine episodes.

[01:36:48] Series music.

[01:36:49] Christoph Beck.

[01:36:50] And Michael Paras gave us.

[01:36:51] Oh.

[01:36:52] But this credit says seven episodes each.

[01:36:55] So maybe IMDB is not complete yet.

[01:36:57] Because the show is not complete yet.

[01:36:59] All doing a phenomenal job.

[01:37:02] The aesthetic sides of the show.

[01:37:04] You know.

[01:37:05] We talk a lot about the acting.

[01:37:06] Because that's the part that's like right in front of us.

[01:37:08] But all of the production design.

[01:37:11] And music design.

[01:37:13] The editing.

[01:37:13] All has just been flawless.

[01:37:16] We have talked about the music.

[01:37:17] Because the music.

[01:37:18] Choices.

[01:37:19] You know.

[01:37:20] There's the score.

[01:37:21] And there's the song.

[01:37:23] But then there's also.

[01:37:24] These other music choices.

[01:37:26] That they've made.

[01:37:26] Just for the closing credits.

[01:37:28] That are so powerful.

[01:37:30] And emotive.

[01:37:32] I think.

[01:37:33] That.

[01:37:33] It's excellence across the board.

[01:37:35] Oh.

[01:37:36] I think that.

[01:37:38] Probably.

[01:37:39] Before I put the show to bed.

[01:37:41] The first time.

[01:37:43] Through.

[01:37:44] Well.

[01:37:44] Eighth time through.

[01:37:45] Whatever.

[01:37:46] Because I've watched it.

[01:37:46] So.

[01:37:47] Every episode.

[01:37:47] So many times.

[01:37:49] I think that watching the end credits.

[01:37:52] Are.

[01:37:53] Music videos.

[01:37:54] In and of itself.

[01:37:54] Because they make the parts.

[01:37:56] You know.

[01:37:56] We.

[01:37:56] We were.

[01:37:57] We weren't.

[01:37:58] We were kind of debating.

[01:37:59] Whether or not they were adding new stuff.

[01:38:00] Over and over again.

[01:38:01] In earlier episodes.

[01:38:02] And what's funny is.

[01:38:04] I mean.

[01:38:05] They have it.

[01:38:06] But I think.

[01:38:07] Contextually.

[01:38:08] They take new shape.

[01:38:09] As we find out.

[01:38:10] Yeah.

[01:38:11] Yeah.

[01:38:12] The.

[01:38:12] The end credits.

[01:38:13] Really do tell the whole story.

[01:38:14] Right?

[01:38:15] Like.

[01:38:15] If you watch the end credits now.

[01:38:17] They mean a whole lot.

[01:38:18] Because.

[01:38:18] Now we can see.

[01:38:20] Like.

[01:38:20] I mean.

[01:38:21] The cartoon witches that we see.

[01:38:23] Were the cartoon witches that they were.

[01:38:25] In.

[01:38:26] This episode.

[01:38:27] But I.

[01:38:27] I feel like the music.

[01:38:30] That's on top of it.

[01:38:32] Every episode.

[01:38:33] Has its own song.

[01:38:34] Except for.

[01:38:36] I believe last week's.

[01:38:37] Just had.

[01:38:38] It's every other.

[01:38:40] The.

[01:38:40] Okay.

[01:38:41] The end credits are sometimes just the.

[01:38:43] Instrumental.

[01:38:43] Just the instrumental.

[01:38:44] But it's been.

[01:38:46] Season of the witch.

[01:38:47] And then.

[01:38:48] Heads will roll.

[01:38:49] And time in a bottle.

[01:38:50] And.

[01:38:51] And all of those.

[01:38:52] Is it just the death.

[01:38:53] Is it just the death episodes?

[01:38:55] Well.

[01:38:56] Season of the witch.

[01:38:57] Was the first episode.

[01:38:58] No.

[01:38:58] That was the first episode.

[01:38:58] So that was just setting things off.

[01:39:00] And then.

[01:39:01] Heads will roll.

[01:39:02] Was.

[01:39:02] Was.

[01:39:03] Season.

[01:39:03] Was episode three.

[01:39:04] And time in a bottle.

[01:39:05] Was this episode.

[01:39:06] I don't think that there's.

[01:39:08] Been another.

[01:39:10] Ending song.

[01:39:11] But I'll have to.

[01:39:12] I'll have to check.

[01:39:13] I have been keeping.

[01:39:15] Creating a playlist.

[01:39:16] As we go.

[01:39:16] Of every song.

[01:39:17] That.

[01:39:18] That comes up.

[01:39:19] And then I've.

[01:39:19] I.

[01:39:20] You know.

[01:39:20] I've got every version of.

[01:39:21] The ballad of the witches road.

[01:39:22] On the playlist.

[01:39:23] And.

[01:39:27] Remixes and stuff.

[01:39:28] That are out there.

[01:39:29] And.

[01:39:30] I heard a really good.

[01:39:31] Dance.

[01:39:32] Version.

[01:39:33] Where somebody.

[01:39:34] Mixed it together.

[01:39:35] With some music.

[01:39:35] From the Wednesday.

[01:39:37] Netflix series.

[01:39:38] And like.

[01:39:39] It.

[01:39:39] That was a banger.

[01:39:42] And.

[01:39:43] And.

[01:39:43] And then I also put all of our.

[01:39:45] Magical spell songs.

[01:39:46] On the playlist.

[01:39:47] It's a.

[01:39:47] It's a good playlist.

[01:39:48] I've been really enjoying it.

[01:39:52] So yeah.

[01:39:53] Just.

[01:39:53] Just general kudos.

[01:39:55] To the.

[01:39:55] The whole team.

[01:39:56] That is.

[01:39:57] Well.

[01:39:57] I do.

[01:39:58] The.

[01:39:59] Makeup.

[01:39:59] The.

[01:40:00] Everything.

[01:40:00] Has just been phenomenal.

[01:40:02] And so down.

[01:40:02] I mean.

[01:40:03] So.

[01:40:03] Done at such.

[01:40:05] Quote unquote.

[01:40:05] Bottom basement price.

[01:40:07] Of like.

[01:40:07] 20 to 40 million.

[01:40:08] Somewhere in that realm.

[01:40:09] But I.

[01:40:10] The music stood out.

[01:40:13] Everything blends together.

[01:40:15] So nicely.

[01:40:15] That a lot of times.

[01:40:16] I don't notice it.

[01:40:17] In this show.

[01:40:17] But there was a moment.

[01:40:18] I literally wrote.

[01:40:19] Music is fantastic.

[01:40:21] There was.

[01:40:24] When they were walking.

[01:40:26] At the beginning.

[01:40:26] Of the episode.

[01:40:27] When Billy was walking.

[01:40:29] With.

[01:40:30] Agatha.

[01:40:30] And his disdain.

[01:40:32] For her.

[01:40:32] Was just oozing.

[01:40:34] Out of him.

[01:40:35] And.

[01:40:35] He.

[01:40:36] He says to her.

[01:40:38] I honestly.

[01:40:38] Believed your experience.

[01:40:40] Would be the key.

[01:40:40] To our success here.

[01:40:42] Now.

[01:40:42] I wondered.

[01:40:43] If you've ever been.

[01:40:43] On the road at all.

[01:40:45] And.

[01:40:45] And.

[01:40:46] They pan over.

[01:40:47] To her.

[01:40:48] And she has this.

[01:40:49] Look on her face.

[01:40:51] Of.

[01:40:51] It.

[01:40:52] It.

[01:40:52] It melts.

[01:40:53] From.

[01:40:54] Being.

[01:40:55] Sort of.

[01:40:55] Angry.

[01:40:56] To being.

[01:40:57] Visibly.

[01:40:57] Shaken.

[01:40:59] So.

[01:41:00] Finding out.

[01:41:00] Her actual journey.

[01:41:01] On the road.

[01:41:02] Is going to be fun.

[01:41:03] Because I know.

[01:41:03] We're going to find.

[01:41:04] I hope.

[01:41:04] We're going to find.

[01:41:05] That out.

[01:41:05] And then.

[01:41:07] It kind of pans around.

[01:41:08] And we see.

[01:41:10] That.

[01:41:11] Castle.

[01:41:12] Or.

[01:41:13] Fortress.

[01:41:13] Whatever you want to call it.

[01:41:15] And there was this.

[01:41:16] Evil music playing.

[01:41:17] As they start walking towards it.

[01:41:19] That was just.

[01:41:21] It just.

[01:41:22] Over.

[01:41:22] It just.

[01:41:23] Overwhelmed me.

[01:41:24] I was like.

[01:41:25] Oh boy.

[01:41:26] And.

[01:41:27] I just realized.

[01:41:28] How much music.

[01:41:30] Has played a part into it.

[01:41:31] It's interesting.

[01:41:32] I.

[01:41:33] Of course.

[01:41:33] Our shows are going to have different cinematographers.

[01:41:36] But now.

[01:41:36] I want to know.

[01:41:37] Who did each episode.

[01:41:38] Because.

[01:41:39] There definitely are some tonal shifts.

[01:41:41] From episode to episode.

[01:41:43] And I want to see who's done that.

[01:41:45] Yeah.

[01:41:46] I.

[01:41:47] Amazing.

[01:41:48] Yeah.

[01:41:48] You're right.

[01:41:48] This.

[01:41:49] This is.

[01:41:49] This.

[01:41:50] When a show runner can.

[01:41:52] Put together these types of people.

[01:41:54] It does get me super excited.

[01:41:55] For.

[01:41:56] For what's to come.

[01:41:57] Not only in this series.

[01:41:59] But whatever Jack Schafer is doing next.

[01:42:00] Whether the rumors be true or not.

[01:42:02] Uh.

[01:42:03] I can't wait to see what it is.

[01:42:04] But.

[01:42:05] You know.

[01:42:06] It would be fun.

[01:42:08] If.

[01:42:09] Jack Schafer.

[01:42:11] Could be the Kevin Feige of the TV universe.

[01:42:14] Because.

[01:42:15] If she can weave together shows like.

[01:42:17] Like this.

[01:42:19] All of the shows.

[01:42:21] Oh.

[01:42:22] And please.

[01:42:24] Please.

[01:42:24] Let's stay on characters like this.

[01:42:26] Let's stay on characters that.

[01:42:29] Much like I think.

[01:42:33] Oh.

[01:42:34] I can't think of his name.

[01:42:36] Gunn.

[01:42:37] From.

[01:42:37] The DCEU.

[01:42:39] Um.

[01:42:39] James Gunn.

[01:42:40] Oh James Gunn.

[01:42:40] He loved.

[01:42:41] He loved Guardians.

[01:42:42] Because these were characters that.

[01:42:45] Were well known to like the deep cut.

[01:42:47] Like Marvel fans.

[01:42:48] But they weren't.

[01:42:50] Prime.

[01:42:51] Marvel characters.

[01:42:52] Yeah.

[01:42:52] And he got to add a lot of meat.

[01:42:53] I didn't have as much baggage.

[01:42:55] Yeah.

[01:42:56] Agatha has very little baggage.

[01:42:58] I'm glad you brought that up.

[01:42:59] Um.

[01:43:00] I have been doing.

[01:43:01] A nice little deep dive.

[01:43:03] Into.

[01:43:04] Some of the comics.

[01:43:05] Mm hmm.

[01:43:06] I.

[01:43:06] Um.

[01:43:07] I have a.

[01:43:08] Kindle Unlimited.

[01:43:10] Slash.

[01:43:10] Comixology.

[01:43:11] Subscription.

[01:43:12] So.

[01:43:13] Usually.

[01:43:14] I read whatever comics.

[01:43:15] Are free.

[01:43:16] With my subscription.

[01:43:18] And.

[01:43:19] A lot of Scarlet Witch comics.

[01:43:20] Have been free lately.

[01:43:21] So.

[01:43:22] I read a bunch of them.

[01:43:23] And then I.

[01:43:24] They're very smart.

[01:43:25] Because what they'll do is like.

[01:43:26] Volume one and volume two.

[01:43:27] Are free with subscription.

[01:43:28] But you have to buy volume three.

[01:43:30] Um.

[01:43:31] And they just released.

[01:43:33] Somebody did what I said.

[01:43:35] Like very.

[01:43:35] At the very beginning.

[01:43:36] I wanted them to do.

[01:43:37] They pulled all the different Agatha stuff together.

[01:43:39] Into a volume.

[01:43:40] Oh.

[01:43:40] So.

[01:43:41] There.

[01:43:41] Is now available.

[01:43:43] It's like.

[01:43:43] $16.99.

[01:43:44] On Kindle.

[01:43:45] Um.

[01:43:46] You can get.

[01:43:47] It's got.

[01:43:48] It pulls together like.

[01:43:49] I don't know.

[01:43:50] There's like four.

[01:43:51] Different.

[01:43:51] Uh.

[01:43:51] Issues of Fantastic Four.

[01:43:53] And it's got.

[01:43:54] A few.

[01:43:55] Uh.

[01:43:56] Avengers comics.

[01:43:57] And.

[01:43:57] I'm only part way.

[01:43:58] I'm still in the Fantastic Four section.

[01:44:00] Which is.

[01:44:01] Old school Agatha.

[01:44:02] Where she looks like a decrepit old lady.

[01:44:05] Mm-hmm.

[01:44:05] More recent Agatha.

[01:44:07] Is like a sex pot.

[01:44:08] She's like a gorgeous Marvel superhero.

[01:44:10] Mm-hmm.

[01:44:10] Um.

[01:44:11] But it pulls together like all these Agatha origin stories.

[01:44:14] In one place.

[01:44:15] Was the Fantastic Four the nanny version?

[01:44:17] Was she the nanny?

[01:44:18] Yeah.

[01:44:18] Yeah.

[01:44:18] She was the nanny of.

[01:44:19] Of um.

[01:44:20] Franklin Richards.

[01:44:22] And uh.

[01:44:23] At first they don't even know that she's a witch.

[01:44:25] That gets discovered in one of the comics.

[01:44:27] Where like somebody attacks her.

[01:44:28] And they're all like.

[01:44:29] Why would they want to attack this little old lady?

[01:44:31] And then she's like.

[01:44:32] Oh.

[01:44:35] Um.

[01:44:37] And then uh.

[01:44:39] There's a whole section of Scarlet Witch comics.

[01:44:42] Where she's a ghost.

[01:44:43] And uh.

[01:44:44] She's hanging out with Wanda.

[01:44:46] And.

[01:44:46] And.

[01:44:47] And she's like a sassy ghost.

[01:44:49] So she'll be like.

[01:44:50] Yeah.

[01:44:50] Like that time you killed me.

[01:44:51] And Wanda will be like.

[01:44:52] It wasn't me.

[01:44:53] I didn't kill you.

[01:44:54] And Agatha.

[01:44:55] The ghost Agatha's like.

[01:44:56] Yeah.

[01:44:56] Yeah.

[01:44:56] Yeah.

[01:44:57] Um.

[01:44:58] But she's like Wanda's ghost guide.

[01:45:00] When Wanda walks the road.

[01:45:02] And.

[01:45:03] I've been just loving it.