72: "Lowak” (Echo S1E2)

[00:00:00] .

[00:00:30] Welcome to the show my name is Alex and I am Penny

[00:00:53] and I'm Kirk and you have entered the Marvel verse, the Marvel TV cast dedicated to all shows Marvel

[00:01:03] and today we are going into the Echo land. Echo season one episode two and Penny please correct me if I say this wrong.

[00:01:14] Low walk is that right?

[00:01:16] I think that's right. I am one by no means an expert but I think it's okay. I'm gonna tell you right now

[00:01:23] you're the best we got right now okay so we're going with it all right now I just have a couple of

[00:01:28] housekeeping things I know I don't do housekeeping I know that's why we added cleaner come in

[00:01:33] I don't know but that being said before we choose I know Penny can you just tell everybody a little bit

[00:01:40] about what the way we're doing this podcast sure so Disney plus dropped all five episodes at once on

[00:01:49] whatever day that was January 9th but we are going week to week with the podcast so we've all agreed

[00:01:54] with each other to only watch as far as what we're gonna cover on the podcast so today Alex and

[00:02:00] Kirk and I have only watched episodes one and two and folks we won't spoil you exactly and folks I

[00:02:08] know you may have some confusion about the Marvel TV cast but what we did was we went to the sacred

[00:02:15] timeline we got our little thing of a Bob and we figured we're gonna put it all under one roof

[00:02:22] and it's gonna be one one feed yes you can still maybe get it through some other feeds

[00:02:28] not Echo but the other type of stuff that's out there but the main thing is all shows will be going

[00:02:35] through Marvel TV cast so on your on your podcast episode this is actually episode 72 even know

[00:02:43] it's really episode two season one for Echo and now that I've completely confused you if you have

[00:02:50] any questions about that you could talk to talk at podcastica.com and I know the the tireless

[00:02:58] staff at podcastica will be more than happy to answer any and all your questions and now let me

[00:03:05] just jump in before you finish and then just clarify that if you were subscribed to a number of other

[00:03:10] shows or at one point listen to those they may all show up now in your feed yes you don't have to

[00:03:18] you don't have to maintain those all of them you can delete them all except one our recommendation is

[00:03:23] you keep the Echo one because it's the latest and most likely yeah the latest in the greatest but

[00:03:31] that just make that clear you don't have to keep all of those shows in your feed or set up

[00:03:36] now that we cleared all of that up and you're totally confused let's get into it

[00:03:41] we are talking season one episode two low walk and penny what were your first thoughts of this episode

[00:03:50] I loved it because we got to spend so much more time with the supporting characters

[00:03:57] I think Maya's family is so interesting I love them I want to have whole entire shows about

[00:04:06] biscuits and his dog and I think Henry is freaking hot and I would watch that guy on screen for days

[00:04:16] so just so I'm getting this clear you would watch him read the phone book and you'd be good with that

[00:04:23] probably yeah I figured as much and and if Sydney was here she'd probably say the same thing about

[00:04:29] Tom but we're not gonna talk about that because that's a different show oh Tom Hiddleston

[00:04:33] yes she's totally obsessed with both him and Sylvie I think she has little pillows with him on him

[00:04:40] and Kirk what was your first thoughts I love the episode I enjoyed it even more the second time

[00:04:47] I watched it today but I didn't feel it was as strong as episode one but I think it was more

[00:04:58] building the story and like Penny pointed out you know helping us get to know the surrounding

[00:05:04] characters around her and it was one of my points to talk about is how important those characters are

[00:05:09] to the show and to any good show but so I really liked it I loved it I mean in terms of you know

[00:05:17] Marvel can't do any better with action I mean and when they do action they know how to do action

[00:05:23] and I have to say biscuit and his grandfather that's a show unto itself it reminded me almost

[00:05:32] of that theme when we get to it that was Pond Stars it was definitely an episode of Forn Starts I

[00:05:40] mean I mean Pond Pond Pond Torn Star is a different show that is a completely different show

[00:05:46] pretty and slip I have no idea what's going on no but like a Sanford and son kind of deal

[00:05:51] something and this is what it comes down to because I've been reading a lot of the different

[00:05:57] Facebook groups. And I have to say the because when I did the show, 19, 18, 23 or the Yellowstone

[00:06:07] show, I ended up going and a lot of my feed was a lot of American Indian groups. And they just

[00:06:14] embrace that show. And they are embracing this show so much, at least from what I'm reading. Again,

[00:06:22] I am not, I'm not the expert. And again, I get a couple of samples and I know there's people

[00:06:27] there's always going to be haters in every show that's out there. But you know what? You came

[00:06:32] to the wrong podcast if you want to hear about that because we're we're drinking the cool

[00:06:36] aid or whatever that whatever the we're here free. Well, we have our hates but just not on

[00:06:41] the collective show. But like Diet Coke, like Diet Coke, but that's right. I love Diet Coke.

[00:06:48] It's so bad for you. Yeah, I gave it up. When I gave it when I gave it up, I was well,

[00:06:57] let's not want to get into that. But anyway, that's a whole other that's a whole another

[00:07:00] episode. Yeah, a whole nother story. It's just funny. I do want to I do want to say folks,

[00:07:06] if you haven't already, I know we talked all about the different subscriptions. If you're listening

[00:07:10] to us for the first time because you're looking for this show hit us subscribe, hit the subscribe

[00:07:15] button. And if you like the show, it's Alex and if you don't, it's everybody else. No, I'm sorry.

[00:07:21] If you like to show Delos that you like it, if not, you know, we don't want to hear from you.

[00:07:25] No, I mean, hopefully we're trying to have some fun and and and that said Kirk, what's your first

[00:07:30] point of? Well, before I get in let's before we get into the points, let me let me ask a question

[00:07:35] to you two guys because I'm a little confused. Maybe some of our viewers are probably going to write

[00:07:41] and say Jesus, manly. How come you didn't see this? But anyway, I'm trying to try to figure out

[00:07:47] Chulo is Maya's aunt or her grandmother. She's married to Scully, right? And is he her uncle or her

[00:07:53] grandfather straight out here with those are the grandparents Scully and Chula or Chulo. And they are

[00:08:01] Maya's mother, the one who was killed in the car accident. They're Maya's mother's parents.

[00:08:08] And there that grandmother, Chula did not want her daughter to marry the father whose name I've forgotten.

[00:08:18] That's the Lopez brothers and that was whatever the father's name is and Henry who runs the

[00:08:24] roller rink who's Maya's uncle on her father side. So it's mother's family, father's family.

[00:08:29] Okay. So so biscuit and Bonnie are Chulo's direct children.

[00:08:40] Grandchildren. Grandchildren. We never meet their parents.

[00:08:44] And we kids, so no they are confused. So Maya's mother must have had a sister or a brother

[00:08:52] and biscuits and Bonnie are that person's children. They are also the grandchildren of Chula and Scully

[00:09:00] making them Maya's first cousins. So Henry is the child of one of Maya's mother's

[00:09:10] siblings. No, Henry is her father's brother on the other side on the other side. That's why in

[00:09:18] the episode when Chula comes into the roller rink, Henry makes like a crack about how he wouldn't

[00:09:23] expect to see her unless there was a no baby shower or something or they're not family. They're just

[00:09:31] in the same community. And we related by the marriage between the, I can't remember the father's name

[00:09:38] and Maya's mother. I don't know, but don't worry. I can't either.

[00:09:48] I'm just muted myself because I don't want to yeah. Wait, what was the question again? You want

[00:09:54] to know when Scully, so when Scully suggests to Maya in this episode that she's she speak to her

[00:10:00] grandmother for more background on the ancestors. That's Chulo. She's talking about.

[00:10:06] It's Chula. I just looked up to be a Chula. Yeah, Chula. I would normally make that correction,

[00:10:12] but I don't have a pen in my hand now conveniently for some reason.

[00:10:16] So just so you guys know because I have it up we've got Henry and William that are brothers.

[00:10:23] Their parents are Chula and Scully and and and and and and and and and biscuit is Henry son.

[00:10:35] No, Alex. I think you did that on purpose. No, I didn't actually. Oh, William and Henry are brothers.

[00:10:43] Right. I've never met their parents. And as far as we know Henry doesn't have any kids.

[00:10:48] William married Maya's mother. Right. Maya's mother's mother is Chula and her father is Scully.

[00:10:56] Wait, Maya's mother's mother. Maya's mother is whatever that woman's name.

[00:11:03] Maya's mother who died in the first episode in the flash. Yeah, I know I know that.

[00:11:06] But I said her mother. Her mother is Chula. So that's Maya's grandmother.

[00:11:12] Yeah, no, I knew that part on her mother side. William and Henry. William is her father and Henry

[00:11:18] is his brother other than the marriage of William and Maya's mother. They're not related to Chula and Scully.

[00:11:24] All right. Fine. I'm. They just married. They're just married.

[00:11:27] So when I mess it up, just correct me because I'm good with most of it. That said, let's press on.

[00:11:37] Next week, Penny is going to have a flow chart with us and

[00:11:42] because I think God she's a lawyer and knows what she's talking about.

[00:11:46] Oh, I also have an incredibly complicated family history myself. So I'm used to keeping track of

[00:11:52] these things. So, Penny, you're from Massachusetts, right? Sort of. Yeah.

[00:11:58] Okay. And and Kirk, you're from Connecticut and I'm from New Jersey.

[00:12:02] And my first point because I'm going to just stick it out there.

[00:12:06] I'm so glad that the three of us are from the Northeast because the cold open was

[00:12:13] F in awesome. Now, I know it was in Alabama and all but I'm going to get to why the

[00:12:17] Northeast is so important. And first off, my first point is that first scene was my favorite

[00:12:25] scene for a lot of reasons. Okay. This is the opening flashback. Yeah, the opening flashback.

[00:12:31] Okay. And the reason why is because we're all part of the Northeast. One of the most popular

[00:12:37] sports in the Northeast is LaCrosse. Now, I know that wasn't LaCrosse. It was stick ball.

[00:12:42] So before people start giving me our time, but there's a it's a and I don't want to

[00:12:48] use the long, long ancestor of LaCrosse. Yeah. And absolutely. And I just love the fact that

[00:12:57] not only has Marvel gone all in with this with the authenticity of it, but they have

[00:13:07] they've done so many little Easter eggs like, you know, when they go to Sanford and Sun for lack of a

[00:13:14] better term, they have the flag of they have the flag of the tribe, the actual flag of the tribe.

[00:13:21] And I just love that Maya's ancestor was kicking ass. And if you notice in this in this show,

[00:13:31] it's always that small well with echo smaller female large male. Yeah, dynamic and she kicks his

[00:13:39] ass. And the other thing that I love about it, which is such a great thing in history. And I

[00:13:46] love that this this show is bringing real history into this because back in the day,

[00:13:57] way before we were all, you know, World War One, World War Two. This tribe used to get their

[00:14:03] biggest guy and this guy tried to get their biggest guy. And whoever fought, they win and they

[00:14:09] walk away. And when they were doing that stick ball game, it wasn't for fun. It was for land.

[00:14:18] And I just it was for territory. And I well, they would be what the loser had to be banished.

[00:14:24] Yeah, the loser was banished from the land. And I mean, that made such a difference for me because

[00:14:31] as it started out, I was kind of like, so what's the power she's going to get from this,

[00:14:37] like that she can play stick ball that she's gonna be really good at lacrosse.

[00:14:41] I don't think it just didn't seem like you know, it's a sporting event. It just kind of didn't

[00:14:46] seem to have a whole lot. But then when you find out that it's not just a sporting event,

[00:14:51] but it's the whole, it's super heist. It's life and death stakes. Then all of a sudden,

[00:14:57] it took on a whole different dynamic. And I thought was really what a lesson that humanity can

[00:15:02] learn from this because that is historically accurate. That is what happens sometimes. And the idea

[00:15:09] of a nonviolent way to resolve a land dispute like that's not they're not like slaughtering each

[00:15:16] other. They're not like burning down each other's villages. They're having this vicious and

[00:15:21] very competitive athletic event to make a decision about who gets to stay and who goes. And yes,

[00:15:27] probably leaving has dire consequences, but it's not as dire as war. And I just, I was like, why can't

[00:15:36] we solve our problems now like that? I mean, I know that's ridiculously ideal.

[00:15:40] I do have the Olympics, but that kind of got tainted too. But no, you're right. I think that,

[00:15:46] you know, I think that one of the themes in this whole show has been stability and mobility.

[00:15:56] When you think about it, you look at Maya, what did she have to do? She had to move to New

[00:16:00] Jersey, New York, where some people were stable. You know, that fight was about land.

[00:16:08] They were in it. Well, I think there's also, you know, there was kind of two different approaches

[00:16:14] to civilization at that time. And it was either, you know, nomadic and you roamed

[00:16:23] or tribal and more stationary and agricultural based. And, you know, Maya kind of has been stuck

[00:16:33] being a nomad, but she's not a nomad person. You know what I mean? She's, she's a Choctaw

[00:16:40] agricultural based, advanced, civilized, cultural based group. And that's where her roots are.

[00:16:49] And so as a nomad, she's been lost. Well, you can take the Choctaw out of the person or whatever,

[00:16:56] but you can't take the Choctaw out of the person. I forget to saying, but you know what I'm going

[00:17:01] to say about that. And I think that that's no but you're right. And I have another point down the

[00:17:06] road that goes to that, but Kirk, yeah, you off before. What was your first point? I know we

[00:17:15] kind of diverted with the names, but yeah. Well, my first point is all tied in with the

[00:17:24] ancestral connection and the abilities that are getting passed on to her that we learn about in this

[00:17:30] episode. So she's beginning to pick up her abilities from her ancestors, which is kind of building

[00:17:37] her superhero power set. You know what I mean? We're kind of seeing that as it's created, which is

[00:17:41] really cool. And I really like that low-axe agility and strength is passed on to Maya in the

[00:17:48] train sequence obviously as we, you know when she gets trapped with her leg. You know, as I pointed out

[00:17:54] last week in the comics, Echo's powers are the ability to mimic or echo anyone else's abilities.

[00:18:02] However, the MCU already has a returning character with that exact power set, which is the

[00:18:08] Taskmaster, which we were introduced to in the Black Widow movie and who's returning as part of

[00:18:13] the Thunderbolts team. So Echo, I think from a creative point of view, Echo needed to have an

[00:18:20] MCU point of view. He needed to have a different power set than in the comic, but yet it needed to

[00:18:26] relate to her name. And I think echoing her ancestors abilities is a really creative and great

[00:18:34] solution to that difference or solution to that problem or challenge, creative challenge.

[00:18:39] Clear, this is how the show structure has been built this way to introduce these characters

[00:18:47] and their powers first. And then we kind of see how that's going to tie into our character, our lead.

[00:18:54] And I just think that they're really, it's a really good and imaginative way, great story telling,

[00:19:01] it's a great way to introduce her powers, the tie it nicely into her name, but yet make it

[00:19:08] different and unique for the MCU. I have a question for you. I have a question for your

[00:19:11] character before we get to Penny. What was your, what's your thoughts on the fact that they're

[00:19:16] bringing magic back to this? They're not really explaining it. They just have, she gets the palms

[00:19:23] going on. What's your thoughts on that? Do you like it? Well, I'm glad you, I'm

[00:19:28] what a beautiful, are you sure we didn't confer on this because that might not be for on anything

[00:19:33] this week? Oh, we conferred on quite a bit. The last point about this point, I don't know what's

[00:19:43] a point in a point. I'm not sure, but anyway, yeah, it's actually a crit, a little bit of a criticism.

[00:19:50] I'm not a big fan of there being no explanation as to why or how this is happening. Now maybe

[00:19:57] since we're only two episodes in, that's coming. So I'm willing to leave the benefit of the doubt on

[00:20:03] that. But clearly there's been plenty of life threatening events in the past for Echo, for Maya.

[00:20:10] And she didn't tap into these ancestors. Why is it so as a proximity based? Is it just because

[00:20:15] she's home or is it because she's home and spending time with her family and her connections

[00:20:22] and all of that emotion is kind of boiling up and giving her, you know, making her open more to

[00:20:31] those ancestors, you know, speaking to her or communicating with her. I was kind of hoping for

[00:20:40] something a little bit more definitive in the way she's just saying. I'm like dying to talk

[00:20:48] it at the bit. Go for the penny. They, they set up that we're going to get a lot more information

[00:20:54] because Scully tells Maya that she needs to talk to her grandmother who knows a lot about this.

[00:21:02] So now for reasons, Maya doesn't want to see her grandmother right now. There's bad blood between

[00:21:08] them. So I think narratively it means that we're not going to get that conversation until-

[00:21:13] But they did explain it. He did say that your ancestors will come knocking and you can't predict

[00:21:20] what it'll be and while to be my theory is that it has to do with her being home

[00:21:28] and with her people, but also that she is in a new place in her life mentally and emotionally.

[00:21:33] Once she stopped being sort of like a daughter and then being like an assassin who worked for

[00:21:41] the kingpin and now she's working for herself and she has her own goals. This is when her ancestors

[00:21:46] like sort of perked up and were like we better get involved. Maya might go down a bad path and

[00:21:52] this is the sort of crucial crossroads of her life where she will choose a path either to be evil

[00:21:58] and warlike forever or to make something of her life. I think- So that's what it's all about.

[00:22:04] Good point. I think to your point, I think my, I think the ancestors

[00:22:11] are of the opinion she's the one that can save the tribe and I say that because I think

[00:22:20] her grandmother and Henry are dirtier than Maya and then some and she is the only one that can

[00:22:28] save them from themselves and the ancestors are stepping in now because she-

[00:22:34] when we get to the fight scene or the big, the big scene she is trying to make it right. Right

[00:22:41] now it's not in the right church it's in the right church she's just in the wrong view with what

[00:22:46] she's doing. I mean she's doing it for the wrong reasons sort of. She's trying to make it right for

[00:22:51] her but she doesn't realize she's going to probably make it right for the whole tribe. So to speak

[00:22:56] I think to your point does that make sense? Yeah. I don't, I don't get dirty from the grandmother.

[00:23:02] Oh I do. I get a lot of secrets, a lot of secrets from the grandmother. Yeah secrets, baggage and maybe

[00:23:09] also someone who didn't accept the power when she had the chance because yeah it seems like she

[00:23:15] would be in line for it and for whatever reason she doesn't show any signs of it maybe

[00:23:21] maybe there's a whole story where she was powerful. Well she's threatened by Maya. She seems

[00:23:27] threatened by Maya. She had no problem with wanting her to leave and go to New York which was kind

[00:23:33] of weird you know. Yeah and she doesn't seem to want to see her now that she's back down. And she

[00:23:37] doesn't want to see her now. She wants her to come and go so there's definitely issues there. I think

[00:23:42] that Maya to your point, I think Maya has something that she doesn't whatever that is special power

[00:23:51] or whatever else but grandma's just no stuff and they like to pull the strings. And let me tell you

[00:24:00] something when she had that conversation with Henry which we'll talk about that was it a conversation

[00:24:06] that was more to that conversation than just family stuff. That was definitely a meeting. It was

[00:24:13] business and she's involved in this business. Yeah I think I'm getting that impression as well

[00:24:19] and she doesn't want Maya to mess it up to mess it up and she's going mess it up. So happy we finally

[00:24:25] got there. I know you've been chomping at the bit. Wait wait wait wait wait wait before you go on

[00:24:32] what power since we're dealing with we're talking about that right now. What power did she get from

[00:24:36] Chaffa in episode so in episode one did she not get any power? Is that power from Chaffa yet to come

[00:24:44] with is so is low lock the first power that she's kind of gaining and is it strength and agility

[00:24:50] because she's jumping and I'm not clear that it's like one power per ancestor or anything. I think

[00:24:56] it's the power of her ancestors and we're just getting the story one ancestor at a time but I didn't

[00:25:03] understand what the actual power was that she got was it strength well she makes strength but also

[00:25:09] she was jumping some pretty amazing jumps across but she was already really really well trained and

[00:25:15] agile as a fighter fighting yeah but not necessarily it. She had the power to melting she got the

[00:25:22] power to melt butter with those hands and chocolate. Great when you make popcorn exactly she

[00:25:29] I have that power. It's like it's like it's like a really really good Mr. Miyagi. Yeah can I be in

[00:25:37] the MCU. I know absolutely and because of the way they had it glow on her hands I was like

[00:25:42] are her hands like this is dumb but like the coils on an electric stove like well no there's

[00:25:52] they are actually she's good for branding too she can brand her victims that's her that's your

[00:25:58] superpower that's like her coin but it's always the same it's just a spiral brand yeah exactly yeah

[00:26:04] um all right that's it for anything else because you've managed to

[00:26:09] Tom makes this whole thing with your one point. Oh look at the time we gotta take a break

[00:26:15] all right Penny what the hell do you have because we're going off the rails literally and figuratively

[00:26:21] with the show. Well let me try to get us back on the rails let's talk about the train job.

[00:26:27] Um I love a good train job it's a tradition in movies and uh tv shows. I know you guys are laughing

[00:26:36] I probably said something dirty but um train heist but she doesn't steal anything so it's not really

[00:26:43] a heist. I was thinking a lot about the very excellent train scene in Captain America when

[00:26:50] Captain Capillus is Bucky the like ice-datin train scene where they do that really cool like

[00:26:56] perfectly timed zip line onto the train. Yeah I I love all kind of heist stories where there's

[00:27:02] an elaborate plan and everything has to come together you know exactly right but for some reason

[00:27:08] the train ones make me especially happy. There's a great train heist in firefly and I also love

[00:27:16] the train heist um in breaking bad although it's grim and depressing it's also excellent and

[00:27:22] dramatic and fascinating. Yeah I was trying to think of some other good train heist

[00:27:27] like in in stories mission impossible it's had at least one. Did you see the the most recent

[00:27:34] mission impossible had a pretty pretty dramatic one especially that it's can it's it's it's

[00:27:40] conclusion is pretty wild. I think the tradition of the train heist is it goes back to like

[00:27:49] you know westerns they used to have you know like horses robbing a train and yeah I just never

[00:27:57] get tired of seeing how they do it I never get tired of the danger of the upcoming tunnel

[00:28:02] I never get tired of the scenes where somebody's holding on to the train and they're like

[00:28:08] slapping in the wind and trying to crawl against the centrifugal force all that stuff. Yeah

[00:28:12] I love it when they go from car to car it makes me so happy when I myself am in a train

[00:28:18] and I have to go from car to car the normal way walking through the doors and stuff

[00:28:22] I get a little bit jazzed because I'm like ooh I'm going car to car like I mean a heist movie

[00:28:26] I don't know just my favorite one of my favorite things. I wish they had just let her fight one or two

[00:28:31] of those guards that's all just I don't know why they passed that by I mean why even have the guards

[00:28:36] in there it just to add I guess tension as to because she could get caught but

[00:28:42] it was also I will say this a little too dark yeah I totally agree. I have an excellent plasma

[00:28:49] screen TV and and I watched when it wasn't like bright and sunny in the room and I still had trouble

[00:28:55] seeing some of the scenes. I am so glad you said that because I thought it was it was like

[00:28:58] Game of Thrones dark yeah I mean it was ridiculous and I don't understand why they do that

[00:29:03] like the scene where her leg gets caught and she uses she gets the power that scene I was like what

[00:29:08] is happening what I can't see what's happening. I will say one of the coolest things

[00:29:14] in that scene was when she lost communication and she used it did this if you already said this

[00:29:21] I'm sorry did the sparking yeah that was awesome. I mean that was really actually brilliant

[00:29:27] when you think about it. And biscuits was like oh she's over there yeah I mean you know because

[00:29:32] because biscuits is one biscuit short of a meal I mean he don't pick on biscuits. Oh yeah

[00:29:37] I mean he got to I know no I mean he is just he's just so sweet. He's like such a teddy bear I

[00:29:42] just want to cuddle him. There's a lot of people that you're cuddling on the show geez.

[00:29:47] Oh I don't want to just cuddle Henry. Oh okay I don't want to know. Okay anyway so

[00:29:53] so I'm so glad that we got your train job story out. And Alex what's your point?

[00:30:00] let's do my point. I kind of started but I'm going to come back to my next point.

[00:30:08] I love their family dynamic and my next point is kind of two points but

[00:30:16] is I love how they all know sign and yet silence is such a great language.

[00:30:25] And the heartbeat like the beginning of the show what was the first thing that we heard was

[00:30:31] the heartbeat with the Marvel logo and all that kind of stuff. Yeah that was the kingpin's

[00:30:35] the kingpin thing. And you ever notice when she's doing her super duper stuff everything goes

[00:30:42] silent through her. Yeah ears not eyes. Yep and I just love how they use that.

[00:30:49] Stealing my second point but that's cool go ahead. It's a shared point because I was going to talk

[00:30:54] about it too so okay okay so let's all go. Like I said hearing is such an important

[00:31:01] character in this and I think that that's an important thing um and how they just talk together

[00:31:07] like you know her and Henry were arguing with each other or given each other crap the same

[00:31:15] thing with biscuit and the best scene of all was with the leg when yeah I mean when he's like

[00:31:22] redoing the leg and and I'm just like I just loved every second of it. So since I stole your

[00:31:28] stole your leg why don't you go next Kirk about your well if you're having the same picking up

[00:31:34] I will have a little bit of a different take a little twist on it's I love the fact that they pull

[00:31:39] back on the sound um and that you know that we hear the heartbeat and we kind of experience the world

[00:31:46] through Maya's senses. I think that that's just really really well done in this show and I love that

[00:31:53] but I think it's more than that because the heartbeat kind of symbolizes not kind of I think

[00:31:59] does directly symbolizes Maya's emotions um and I think focuses these early episodes on how Maya's

[00:32:06] kind of lost in her own heart you know what I mean because of all of the pain and the rage that she has

[00:32:13] from you know all that she's lost and gone through um she blames herself for her mother's loss

[00:32:19] but then Kingpin took her father so all that combined self-hate and rage at him it's all aimed at

[00:32:25] fisc and as a result her heartbeat is kind of um well one it's echoing all of that pain in suffering

[00:32:34] in her but it's also blocking her in some ways from being able to see how you know how her

[00:32:43] revenge on Kingpin is consuming her and it's becoming reckless and could potentially bring pain

[00:32:50] and suffering to people around her that she cares about um so I think the the heartbeat is

[00:32:59] is more than just to help us zone in and experience through her senses it's more to help us see a

[00:33:04] little bit into into her and how she's right now driven by her emotion and her rage and her

[00:33:13] for anger you know what I mean I have a question for you both because I know you both read the comics

[00:33:19] I think now Daredevil did in the show was that um did they do anything like that with Daredevil

[00:33:28] since he was blind where they would it would be more of an obscure view or I'm just asking because

[00:33:35] I've never seen Daredevil in the show in the show yeah I don't think for more than a few seconds

[00:33:41] yeah okay I just wouldn't work very well on TV to have like go to black and no I understand that

[00:33:47] but there's like kind of ways that you could do and that's why I was asking I just love

[00:33:53] how you can take away one of your senses and it just causes so much more good stuff and I just

[00:33:58] love what you said, Clark because it makes it makes sense I love the way that when they're communicating

[00:34:04] in sign first of all that they can have two different conversations going at once that's fantastic

[00:34:09] right so much so much comic potential there but also the way that they speak quietly

[00:34:18] while they're signing and it just it makes the the conversation so intense and it makes me

[00:34:26] literally lean forward in my seat to pay attention to what's happening because it's so rare

[00:34:32] that a show an actiony like heart you know comic book based show gets quiet and there's

[00:34:40] something about quiet anger that is just so much more potent than loud anger loud anger is very

[00:34:48] showy but like Henry did not lose his cool in that scene but he was angry like crazy with Maya

[00:34:55] and his hand motions showed it it it using ASL in a story like this gives the actors an entire

[00:35:03] other means of communicating their their moods and their their motivations and their you know

[00:35:10] the story that is rich and for a non-sign user it's making me desperately want to learn sign language.

[00:35:17] What are the points that I now points but one of the things I just thought about right now

[00:35:21] from the first episode I know there's only two but even from the opening credit it's all

[00:35:28] bit about hand motion what was the first thing that we saw with our dad the

[00:35:32] Burt's. Shut up puppets now you look at the Indian culture it's very much about the land

[00:35:42] about bears lines tiger you know what not tigers but you know birds all these different types of

[00:35:48] things nature nature thank you couldn't take it at big 50 cent word you know but it really comes

[00:35:55] back to how do you use your hands in a way that can make it work and you can do a lot talking

[00:36:04] about being quiet I'm thinking of even dances with wolves you know when they say I think no it was

[00:36:10] no it was it was or last time he gets where they're like yeah we knew the we knew the white man

[00:36:16] was here because they put fire at during the day and it's just like it's like the Indian culture

[00:36:23] is so practical because they have to be to survive and we're just I mean I know we're just learning

[00:36:30] it but then you add the ASL I mean anybody in the military has been using hand signals

[00:36:36] anybody and you know when you think about hand signals it's been around forever for what reason

[00:36:42] for communication purposes but also to you know it's in other language yeah I agree penny I think

[00:36:50] it's been a it's been a you almost so unique a unique experience from a viewer's point of view

[00:37:03] of of of a deaf um character interacting in the way that they're doing it because I think

[00:37:12] there's been a miss by a lot of other shows that have tried to incorporate this by just focusing

[00:37:19] on the sign language and then having subtitles yeah and the deaf person is like miraculously

[00:37:27] able to lip read everybody all the time and with no problem but in their communication is so much

[00:37:35] richer than that there's the facial expressions the thing I love about Maya is it's all of the little

[00:37:42] tiny and I can't believe she was not an actress before she got this first gig on Hawkeye you know

[00:37:49] I mean she's come so far but she does so much with just a flick of the eye the head tilt her annoyance

[00:37:58] she can communicate really well all the facial expressions then the sounds that she makes you know

[00:38:04] she doesn't say things all the time but when she's emotional you do get so there's just so much more

[00:38:10] emotion in the communication that you get you don't get in a lot of you know a lot of other shows

[00:38:20] to try to use ASL or deal with this subject matter so I agree with you I think it's impressive

[00:38:26] and I'm enjoying it a lot is making the whole thing much more rich and I mean well I think they

[00:38:31] have more now it's not like the Marley Matlin who is just doing sign she's not it's not just about

[00:38:39] her brain yes it's about her brain which is amazing she's a very smart person but she's also interacting

[00:38:45] with family and I don't care what you say it doesn't matter what language you speak whatever the

[00:38:50] language it is you can understand people when they're getting yelled at and you can understand all

[00:38:54] that kind of stuff you don't need to know the language you get yelled at by your grandpa your uncle

[00:38:58] your cousin whatever or a biscuit yeah yeah oh biscuit so so um I think did you just go or did

[00:39:06] I just that was my yeah so do I think we're penny your second point or was it all about you padding

[00:39:11] or was it also about me it's always all about you on a farm and Alabama okay none of that is true by

[00:39:18] the way um as long as we keep bringing him up I want to talk about biscuits because I love biscuits

[00:39:25] so hard he is adorable he so the gram at one point is like I don't want my spending time with

[00:39:32] biscuits he's impressionable so you get the sense that he is you know I mean he's got like the

[00:39:38] only thing he has to his name to sell it's a PlayStation he's that guy right he probably still lives

[00:39:43] at grandma's house by the way how awesome was that seen about his friggin PlayStation it was adorable

[00:39:50] like everything biscuits does it's like he has a heart of gold there's no malice in this person

[00:39:56] no none he loves his dog he got the the car trashed my favorite moment is when the grandma is

[00:40:03] talking to the like you know bitchy neighbor um are we allowed to say that word on here uh and

[00:40:10] and she's like oh biscuits is borrowed the truck and then he drives by and it's like

[00:40:15] scrape rattles and he's just the look on his face and as he makes eye contact with grandma

[00:40:21] classic classic hilarious we've all done that with our our parents at one point like oh my god

[00:40:28] it was like a moment from like a John Hughes movie like yeah it it was like a kid knowing he's

[00:40:35] gonna get in trouble from his you know parental figure and just being like I still have to go try

[00:40:41] to get this truck repaired it oh my god I laughed so hard at it and he did such a good job I feel

[00:40:47] like um Cody lightning that's the actor is is doing more work than we see on screen because he

[00:40:54] he makes biscuits look effortless and sort of lightweight you might say everybody else is so

[00:41:01] heavy yeah similar vibe yeah yeah and he's he's cuddly he's always got snacks with him the dog

[00:41:10] goes everywhere with him how can you not love a guy who's so close to his dog um the way that he

[00:41:16] interacted with the white tourists and and convinced them to buy yeah you know and and he was like

[00:41:22] you know you could go to anthropology and get whatever ethnically ambiguous quote Navajo rug you

[00:41:27] all on it and it was just it shows that there's some intelligence in there right he played them

[00:41:33] but he's so sweet about it so no picking on biscuits I'm gonna defend it all the time

[00:41:40] all right Karak what's your biscuit point well I pick up on that and I'm gonna go a little deeper

[00:41:47] that I think that you know the show in general understands um how important the side characters are

[00:41:56] and I'm loving them in this show I think a great show doesn't depend just on the on the hero

[00:42:03] it's got to have a great villain obviously but just as important to the story in my opinion is great

[00:42:09] characters that help or hinder the hero um you know the the lead it gives the lead someone to

[00:42:19] you know to bounce off of to to show growth in the character um

[00:42:25] yeah you know I mean it's just a richer experience and we start to relate to the lead character

[00:42:32] in this case Maya because of all of these other relationships that we like don't lie whatever

[00:42:38] you know what I mean and you know I mean think about like what spider-man the spider-man movies

[00:42:43] would be like without MJ or Ned you know what I mean think about or am I the original Daredevil series

[00:42:51] without foggy or without Karen or without the Punisher just wouldn't be as good you know what I mean

[00:42:56] you have to have these characters that are become either mirrors or a conscience for for the main

[00:43:02] character um help them see themselves or a contrast yeah and also we learn to love the main character

[00:43:10] by seeing how other people love her absolutely 100% her family loves her deeply and sincerely even

[00:43:18] when they are unbelievably angry at her like Henry equally loves and is furious with her right

[00:43:24] and biscuit biscuits loves her and we know Bonnie loves her even though he knows and biscuit knows what

[00:43:30] she's doing and what she's asking to do is wrong but she's family yeah so does it anyway and he's loyal

[00:43:37] and he and he wants her to see her her to find that figure out for herself you know what I mean

[00:43:44] but he's gonna support her and that's just it's makes him super admirable

[00:43:50] well plus the fistful of money that is getting thrown at him doesn't hurt either as she did that to him

[00:43:55] why do people in like the crime industry roll their money what's that all about

[00:44:02] but why is the money always in a role that's so impractical I don't know I think it's the

[00:44:07] the from drug dealers all I know is we'll have the listeners answer that question yeah that's

[00:44:13] a good question for the listeners um that'll be the marvel question of the day is why I mean

[00:44:19] the other the other one that stands out is scully I mean he has he is the closest thing

[00:44:28] to her relationship with her father and it's touching and he's the one that explains about

[00:44:34] chaffa and her ancestors reaching out um Tamaya and and that scene just reminded me so much of

[00:44:40] her conversation with her dad about the dragons and I just saw a lot of that you know that in there and

[00:44:49] I just I think it's really really important to a show to have those kinds of connections

[00:44:54] they they give growth to the character um you and this show just has it in spades yeah

[00:45:00] and that's Graham Greene who is yeah probably the most famous of all Indigenous actors

[00:45:06] yeah now there's one who's more famous than Graham Greene

[00:45:10] you grew up in the 80s right yeah

[00:45:18] the PSA the Indian guy oh but I don't know that guy's name yeah

[00:45:22] yeah I mean it doesn't yeah I'm just giving you a hard time

[00:45:28] yeah the best the best part of biscuit and this kind of encompasses him when he is trying to be

[00:45:35] invisible driving past his grandmother oh yeah like he was just trying to be invisible

[00:45:42] and I just love that and it was just like uh no he is a sweet character

[00:45:47] and he is very impressionable and all the other stuff that his grandmother said but at the same time

[00:45:53] you know what your family and that it's just very interesting how that dynamic is so

[00:45:59] I love the scene I love the scene with with um when sculley's helping her rebuild her leg

[00:46:05] oh yeah and and sculley says I really miss you around here 20 years is way too long

[00:46:11] and my turn's to him in response wasn't my choice true and it just all the pain all the trauma

[00:46:19] um just summed up perfectly in that three word response and I just I just yeah and he doesn't put

[00:46:25] any pressure on her no no it's it's just a statement of his feelings that she can absorb and

[00:46:32] deal with however she deals with it but he just says it and it's he's like a joker right he's

[00:46:38] kind of funny he's got a great sense yeah but you can tell that there is by the damn thing

[00:46:44] by the damn thing he used a word in that scene that I don't know if Lister's no Shmata

[00:46:55] it's a yetish word I was gonna say it wasn't definitely wasn't native American

[00:46:59] it's um it means basically rag uh and so he he says ethnically ambiguous Shmata referring to like

[00:47:08] this desired Navajo rug that he says they can get at anthropology it's just very insulting

[00:47:13] it's also a real stab at anthropology yeah seriously really guilty of some horrible cultural

[00:47:20] appropriation yeah well I think there's also a whole bunch of you know the whole white man versus

[00:47:30] Indian that the Indians were dumb you know yeah that's a myth but see and this is something that

[00:47:37] I didn't really realize but when I was doing you know just checking out the internet because you

[00:47:42] know the internet has everything it's true um you know we always think of the Indians as these

[00:47:50] TP you know savages and they when they that first and I know I'm going back to that first scene

[00:47:59] but they showed that they had kingdoms yeah they had all this it's just that you know smallpox

[00:48:06] and other things kind of killed it all off you know in one full swoop so I mean they were never

[00:48:13] a dumb and they never have been a dumb uh what's the word penny not culture but no no I'm just

[00:48:23] saying civilization yeah they were never a dumb civilization yeah they were sophisticated and they

[00:48:28] yeah but I think historically the white expansion western expansion has labeled and defined

[00:48:37] and written the history books and all of that so that to justify genocide 101 is yeah yeah

[00:48:43] to dehumanize the other yeah and justify killing them because they're other and not exactly it's

[00:48:52] just another face but by point being that is you know they're they're talking their little whatever

[00:48:58] the two the two people from you know wherever they are you know upper middle class wherever and he's

[00:49:05] like yeah whatever and then he's going back to try to fix this thing with his glasses I mean

[00:49:09] he's definitely and then when he goes to do what you were saying about my his leg I mean that

[00:49:14] thing was a work of something I mean that talk about Sanford's son and I love the fact that

[00:49:20] well the real one's coming like we're just thinking I have like semi automatic weapons on it

[00:49:26] is gonna like find a star glass fingers crossed I hope she showed him a picture and we didn't get to

[00:49:32] see it so that tells me there's a cool reveal come you know it can be like a stark like or something

[00:49:38] it should be awesome that's gonna be so you'd like that I know he's like I want him to steal an iron man

[00:49:43] like god damn it I want the action figure yeah I can't wait to see what you're gonna come up with

[00:49:50] for this for this show um so so Kirk what's your next point I'm so digging the opening credits

[00:50:00] I don't know if you guys are not what is that song I loved it I don't know but that song I love

[00:50:05] the song I love the visuals they're moody and graphic like the large head of kingpin and one

[00:50:11] eyes and darkness representing kind of the there's just really the the shot out I the combination of

[00:50:17] the music and the visuals has this great like James Bond opening credits vibe to it you know yeah

[00:50:23] yeah I think about it but yeah it does the Marvel shows the song I'm not sure it's burning by the yeah

[00:50:29] yeah yeah yeah I look good it's fucking awesome um the the Marvel shows have had decent intro credits

[00:50:35] Hawkeyes was kind of cool using a lot of the comic book imagery um but none have been as strong in

[00:50:41] my opinion as the Netflix Marvel shows I mean that dared over opening in Marvel's Netflix the music

[00:50:46] that they would choose until this one this one is on par with that I mean I really feel like in so

[00:50:53] many ways they have you know realized how much they needed to take in some of the great stuff and

[00:51:01] elements from the Netflix Marvel shows and start incorporating it into some of these TV shows

[00:51:06] and the credits are a great great one um let's see what other points that I have the some of

[00:51:12] the shot framing is really cool the the visual storytelling when she plants the bomb and then

[00:51:18] sits smiling on the train car and then the camera cuts to the ground level shot you're on the rails

[00:51:26] looking up and that train comes crashing down barreling down over you and it's just such a metaphor

[00:51:33] for you know that there's just no turning back that she's now barreling towards this war with

[00:51:41] kingpin and it's like a train on fire heading down the tracks there's no stop in it you know I mean

[00:51:47] and I just thought that was without having to say that they just showed it you know I mean it was

[00:51:51] it was just beautiful um well I'm not I'm having I'm not picking up the significance of the D96

[00:51:59] I'm sorry D9x on the train car um you know she does mention at the end you know well you can't go to

[00:52:06] war if you don't have any weapons so was it just weapons were on there but it seems like there was

[00:52:11] something more significant to that from a comic book Easter egg D9 daredevil 9 is the actual issue

[00:52:19] that echo first appeared in so um that's kind of cool um but I don't think that's what's going on

[00:52:26] in the story did you guys pick up on that there's something very significant about

[00:52:30] I thought I thought that it was you know this train run by fish shipping which is a front company

[00:52:38] for fish illegal activities probably had many train cars with legitimate goods in them products

[00:52:46] right there's probably some food or fuel or broth or whatever in there but car D9x is the one with it

[00:52:53] with you know weapons and when Henry heard that he was like oh that's my hit that I know what happened

[00:53:00] right and then she says that line at the end where he says you know you're going to go to war with

[00:53:05] fish and and she says well yeah he can't go to war without any weapons implying that she just

[00:53:10] blew up his weapons as if he can't get more but um but yeah okay cool I just wasn't sure on that

[00:53:18] I think that's about it for me on extra points okay as long as we're talking about that scene

[00:53:23] I was gonna bring up the scene where Henry is talking to his employees and and you know he's like

[00:53:29] I know that our whatever he says our shit is buttoned down or something like that uh and he's like

[00:53:34] don't worry about this and I was thinking about how many like bosses I've had who would not have

[00:53:41] been like it should rolls downhill little land on me not you I was like I love this guy because

[00:53:49] I have I have seen so many times that a boss will be like the buck stops with you and not me

[00:53:58] and I'm clean and you're getting fired like I've seen it over and over and over again

[00:54:03] and the idea that Henry wants to protect his people just bring me back to what I thought about him

[00:54:09] last week which is that he may be involved in a crime syndicate but his purpose in it is to keep

[00:54:16] right the worst of the crime out of his community and I applaud that I know I think he's hot but part

[00:54:22] of the reason I think he's hot is because he's a good guy he's a protector even if he's doing it

[00:54:28] in a way that is outside the bounds of the law yeah no I agree completely you just think he's hot

[00:54:35] it's both he is hot he is hot he's really good so did you see him in the twilight movies

[00:54:43] there were a lot yeah yeah I really saw him in the twilight it was a lot younger than yeah

[00:54:48] but the only scene I think I've actually seen from the twilight movies and is when they were

[00:54:56] having that I think it was a baseball game oh yeah that's the worst of all the scenes yeah

[00:55:01] that was all I saw um you got me a hello oh wait that's the wrong movie the bird the baby

[00:55:07] birthing's pretty bad scene too oh god the worst so that's why movies are are objectively bad

[00:55:18] yeah but almost comically I love them so yeah well Anna Anna Kendrick oh not yeah Anna Kendrick

[00:55:25] still denies she was in it so yeah hey we all got to start somewhere you know um so what's your

[00:55:35] last uh jiveany other points there Penny um I don't know if I brought this up earlier but uh

[00:55:41] I think I did a little bit but grandma must also have this link to the ancestors and possibly

[00:55:49] has powers or had powers or rejected the powers I just think that we're gonna get a lot more

[00:55:56] grandma story and I am so therefore it I think it's gonna be really interesting yeah I think

[00:56:01] grandma's pulling some different strings like I said before and I think she is she is worried that

[00:56:09] Maya is gonna screw this whole thing up she knows at the end of the day that she's gonna put

[00:56:18] that in for lack of a better term put balance in the force so to speak you know she's gonna end

[00:56:23] up screwing it all it always comes back to Star Wars it always does it that in Harry Potter it always

[00:56:28] comes back to Harry Potter and Star Wars for me um no but I really I really think the more and

[00:56:34] more I think about it that conversation with with her and Henry I was like damn that girl that

[00:56:40] that woman is just cold she is ice cold and she I mean you look at you look at all the other

[00:56:47] characters the two serious characters are her and Henry everybody is kind of like happy

[00:56:54] but then what ends up happening at the end biscuit drops the drops the ball and tells her that

[00:57:01] tells uh because in that bunny yeah bunny that that that Maya is back in town and now what's

[00:57:09] gonna happen you know I mean it's just like there's a whole bunch of uh stuff moving in and why

[00:57:15] is the grandma so worried about Bonnie knowing that Maya is back yeah I agree that that's the big

[00:57:22] question I don't think she's I mean you might immediately think well maybe she's actually the big

[00:57:28] crime boss for that area or something but I don't think so because the relationship between her and Henry

[00:57:33] didn't seem like that um but she's definitely worried about something she's definitely protecting

[00:57:39] something um and uh I think Penny your your idea that maybe she turned down the powers or didn't

[00:57:48] warrant the powers maybe wanted them tried to get them but what didn't

[00:57:53] didn't meet the the the ancestors requirements so it's something I can't wait to find out

[00:57:59] yeah no powers for you no and I think she knows that when Maya went to New York with her father

[00:58:05] that most likely Maya was gonna end up in a criminal world the same as her father

[00:58:10] and Bonnie seems to be a completely up and up citizen living a good life you know she's got a good

[00:58:17] job and grandma is like just stop messing with my not messed up grandchildren like she just doesn't want

[00:58:24] Maya to screw up their lives you know what maybe maybe maybe maybe you've hit on it maybe she's hoping

[00:58:32] Bonnie will be the one next in line to to inherit these powers or these abilities or she doesn't want

[00:58:39] Bonnie to have a good life where she doesn't have violence and death in her life right maybe

[00:58:45] that could be too yeah you just want Bonnie to have a good life I mean if I had a you know a relative

[00:58:51] that I knew was a criminal and was trying to do something dangerous and violent I wouldn't want

[00:58:56] them near like my nieces and nephews I'd be like I love you but I also think if she it's all tied in

[00:59:04] with the ancestral powers though I think and and I think by Maya being locked into you know

[00:59:11] away in New York and locked into a life of crime she knew that she was not gonna be able she was

[00:59:17] not gonna qualify she was gonna meet the grade but now that she's back and she's also you know

[00:59:22] cut off her relationship with Fisk to your I think you made this point earlier that you know she

[00:59:28] now is starting to maybe you made the point Alex that the you know the gods are I don't want to

[00:59:33] calm gods but the the ancestors are starting to see her potential and you know that that she may

[00:59:40] be the right one clearly they do because the powers are starting to manifest so yeah but yeah maybe

[00:59:48] Bonnie will get powers too they could be power cousins it'd be so cool they're the wonder twins now

[00:59:55] I'm gonna write a comic book power cuz I swear if there's if there was ever a show that I ever wanted

[01:00:02] to be made I it has nothing to do with marble it's the wonder twins they are no and I'm not trying

[01:00:08] to be funny they were my favorite growing up I want a live action space ghost that would be kind of

[01:00:14] cool too yeah they're herculeids are a antibody are stuff that's that I think I think that we've done

[01:00:25] a pretty good job of this uh this episode and when we come back we're gonna talk about some news

[01:00:32] and a couple of pieces of feedback and who knows what else will happen so we'll catch you on the other side

[01:00:43] welcome back let's talk about the news and Kirk what type of marvel news has come off the wire

[01:00:51] well I've got a informative well not really informative but I'm a positive

[01:00:59] interview with one of the headwriters from a screen rant article on January 14th Amy Radden was

[01:01:07] interviewed then so I'm gonna read a little bit from that echo has gotten off to a strong start

[01:01:14] scoring a solid reviews scoring solid reviews from critics and I didn't know this myself but

[01:01:20] becoming the most watch series premiere on both Disney plus and Hulu did you guys know that

[01:01:26] yeah no pretty cool huh in honor of the shows premiere screen rant interviewed Amy Radden to

[01:01:31] breakdown echo when I asked about what she would like to explore if season two is green lip by marvel

[01:01:36] the co-head writer shared her enthusiasm about the possibility of further exploring the new dynamic

[01:01:41] between Maya and kingpin feeling that the titular anti hero is not done with him well oh gosh I

[01:01:48] feel like we're lucky enough to have a season two I think I could watch the Maya kingpin show all day

[01:01:53] I think in the story she's not done with him and he's not done with her so I think there are

[01:01:58] unlimited storytelling possibilities there I feel like what's interesting about these two characters

[01:02:04] is that they both know each other so very well I think the Maya's power over fists is that she

[01:02:09] knows that he loves her and that's a lot of power and she knows him probably better than a lot of

[01:02:14] people and the same thing vice versa so I think to have those two emotional chess players manipulate

[01:02:21] each other could be really interesting and make for a lot more story while most of the recent

[01:02:29] MCU releases have served as building blocks in the ongoing multiverse saga like like Loki Alex

[01:02:35] echo found a much better groove by taking a step back and focusing on the development of its central

[01:02:40] character part of this is thanks to its standing under the Marvel spotlight banner which was first

[01:02:46] announced in November of 2023 and is intended to serve as a character driven stories over larger

[01:02:52] MCU world building the phase five wonder man didn't know this either coming up the phase five wonder man

[01:02:58] show which recently resumed shooting following rumors of its cancellation is expected to be the

[01:03:03] second release under the spotlight banner given Marvel has only handed out season two renewals to

[01:03:10] handful of MCU shows so like Loki got one what if got one I am Groot and of course the upcoming

[01:03:17] Daredevil born again it's unclear whether echo could be given the same treatment its premiere

[01:03:23] viewership record proves promising for it though should the numbers not hold in subsequent weeks it

[01:03:28] might not be enough to warrant the renewal but even without a direct follow up there's still plenty

[01:03:33] of room for a lock with cox's anti hero to grow with the MCU well how do you rate when you dump

[01:03:41] it all at once versus week to week it's I guess it's duration you know how long it how long it

[01:03:49] continues to draw high numbers you know what I mean yeah but they don't have much to compare that

[01:03:54] with I agree you know because this is the first time they've ever done it right right and um you

[01:04:00] know I do have a small piece of news that you had you had posted in our little group uh our little

[01:04:07] text group it was it or maybe it was me uh it was you the Instagram pictures of the characters

[01:04:13] I mean of the actors but they were changed in different ways and they weren't they weren't in

[01:04:19] traditional um Indian garb American Indian garb they were just kind of in these I don't know

[01:04:25] what kind of outfits but they were and and what was your thoughts because it just didn't really make

[01:04:31] sense like the pictures I it was just I thought it was just a artistic portrait you know of these

[01:04:38] these individuals from the show I thought that you know that's that's what I got from it you know

[01:04:43] just some beautiful photography that you know was um was complimenting them as people as opposed

[01:04:50] to necessarily anything to do necessary with the show or their characters in the show or their

[01:04:55] position in the creative part of the show okay now I mean I get it's just like it it's funny

[01:05:01] because I was looking at the comments and they're like they really didn't even look like themselves

[01:05:06] in a lot of ways it was like really I had to like figure out uh what what you know who they were but

[01:05:15] um penny do you have any news or no no no news on my end no news is good news okay so my

[01:05:23] I have a couple of pieces of feedback one is for episode one I think and one is for episode two

[01:05:30] so Kirk why don't can you do the second one which is for episode one do you want me to do that first

[01:05:35] okay yeah so Adam Buckley Adam Buckley commented on the um one of the uh episode one threads on the

[01:05:42] Facebook podcast of Facebook group um I'm a bit like Alex I struggle with the heavy subtitle

[01:05:48] episodes but I realize we have changed how we view we no longer pay full attention to the episodes

[01:05:54] we watch we're checking our phone or whatever other distractions while listening to the episode

[01:05:59] and only look up at the busy parts so I tried to look for the silver lining and uh that it forces

[01:06:05] me to pay more attention is a good thing so I enjoy it more um that does cool I I agree yeah no

[01:06:13] I totally get it I totally get it um and then he writes about season two I won't want to say I'm

[01:06:18] season two episode so Adam Buckley also writes about episode two just watched it really loving the

[01:06:24] American Native American story at the start I really hope they uh continue it great episode this

[01:06:32] week but I'm really struggling to worry she's what he's worried about her family she really doesn't

[01:06:38] seem to care if they get hurt yeah I think I think it's the opposite I think she cares so much that

[01:06:47] if she doesn't like that arms length thing it won't happen maybe I don't know maybe I'm wrong what do you

[01:06:53] guys think I mean if she is bringing war to this community which it looks like she's doing Henry's

[01:07:00] right like all kinds of bad things could happen as a result just by having violence happening in

[01:07:07] the community people could get shot people could get dragged into it people could get betrayed like

[01:07:15] there's no telling she just worried about her poor Henry dying that's what it comes down to I think

[01:07:21] yeah I think that that you know I'm gonna tie it back to one of the points I made earlier which is

[01:07:28] I think she's just blind right now I think she's just too um overpowered by her anger at

[01:07:37] fisc um all of the rage that she has about what's happened to her in her life and you know

[01:07:44] trying to um to lash out at that and a lot of times when we when we get

[01:07:51] uh feel as passionate as she is right now and are as upset and as hurt as we are where she is

[01:07:58] um then you know we tend to to miss how what we're doing is affecting the people around us

[01:08:06] and um that that's kind of how I take it and I think what we're gonna see through the

[01:08:10] the episodes is that that she's gonna start to see that she's gonna you know she's gonna come around

[01:08:16] on that and then by the end uh she's gonna be fighting for her her area and her people and her heritage

[01:08:22] and her community and um and trying to defend it

[01:08:29] so Penny why don't you tell us how people can get in touch with us

[01:08:34] well if you'd like to reach out to us if you have any questions or you want to leave some feedback

[01:08:39] about the show there's a lot of ways to reach us the easiest one if you're on Facebook is the

[01:08:44] podcast to the Facebook page we put up a uh a post for each episode where you can leave comments

[01:08:51] or you can send an email to talk at podcastica.com how's the buffyverse doing?

[01:08:59] well the buffyverse is a lovely place to hang out and I and my friend Cara or Cara depending on

[01:09:07] part of the country you're from have started this podcast called still slaying a buffyverse podcast

[01:09:12] we are rewatching buffy the vampire slayer we didn't start from the very beginning we jumped into

[01:09:19] into it at season two because season one is pretty shaky and now we're at the beginning of season three

[01:09:25] we're having a blast and the show holds up so much better than I even hoped it would it is still

[01:09:33] extremely relevant to the world today and we're also really enjoying just sort of like bathing

[01:09:39] ourselves in 90s nostalgia like the the grunge I really think you should have Kirk on your show because

[01:09:46] I loved I love buffy yeah I've watched that complete series multiple times not to mention angel and

[01:09:54] and the other spin-offs you know we would love to have you on Kirk uh oh sure let's talk

[01:10:00] after about scheduling because I love having guests on that'd be really fun sure I'm glad you

[01:10:06] skipped over season one though yeah it was a travesty it's it's weak it's just not yeah it's not great

[01:10:14] yeah and we we skipped a few episodes in season two also that we just don't like

[01:10:19] and uh but then when I was gonna do the same thing in season three I looked at the whole season and

[01:10:23] there's only one episode in season three that I don't like and it's kind of an important plot

[01:10:28] episode so I was like all right we're just gonna do the whole season and I can't imagine we're

[01:10:32] not gonna do that for season four and five as well for us for us college right yeah for us college

[01:10:39] yeah yeah that's good stuff and we're gonna do angel also yeah oh yeah good series too

[01:10:46] there you go um and I actually gonna do a couple of movies in between yeah we're taking to break

[01:10:51] every half-season and doing a movie that is thematically related so the first one we did was

[01:10:58] through all intentions the witch farm uh there Michelle Geller and it's also about high school being

[01:11:04] kind of horrible hellscape and then the next movie we're gonna cover is Heather's oh that sounds good

[01:11:14] I wish they'd I I've heard so many times about um a you know a uh a buffy movie or about a relaunch

[01:11:26] uh of the show or I think there's a lot of politics behind the scenes that make it difficult

[01:11:33] I know Sarah Michelle Geller has said she will never come back well I don't think anybody wants to work for

[01:11:39] yeah that's the problem yeah uh we don't talk about him on the podcast very much we don't want to

[01:11:44] give him airtime I know you're talking about but that's okay I don't need just weedons the creator

[01:11:50] of the show oh yeah to be a you said jerk oh okay I honestly I didn't even know who you're talking

[01:11:56] about yeah um he directed the first Avengers movie which was wildly successful but it turned out

[01:12:02] and it was very good but the second one not so much yeah turns out he's not a not a good guy yeah

[01:12:07] did you did you see did you ever watch the nevers which is the half a series on HBO that he created

[01:12:13] takes place in the turn of this I think it's in the six seventeen eighteen hundred I think it's eighteen

[01:12:18] hundred and it's all about these uh powers that these people develop in that time period and it's

[01:12:26] it's got a very very buffy vibe just a different time period um but it only went six episodes and then

[01:12:34] they were gonna do the second half of the season but that's when all of this stuff blew up with him

[01:12:37] oh and then they fired it just never yeah they got rid of them well um I'm so glad that you're

[01:12:44] having so much fun on buffy and it is a labor of love yeah it is so let me just say before we move

[01:12:52] on one quick question penny are you a angel or an or a spike buffy spike buffy angel which are

[01:12:58] you I don't think in between belongs with either of them I don't think either of them are right for her

[01:13:04] but that both of them have been incredibly important for her development yeah well next week on

[01:13:13] slaying uh buffy whatever we're gonna be talking about so I think that's great and you know

[01:13:23] I just love that you're so pumped up about your podcast and and what when is your next

[01:13:29] is your next episode are you guys weekly yeah we're weekly we drop on Tuesday things

[01:13:35] and what episode is going to be next week the next one we're covering season three episode five

[01:13:42] homecoming which is a hilarious episode very can't be very fun well that is awesome and um yeah I'm

[01:13:52] doing what is from as you guys know we're doing the rewatch and we're gonna be doing season one

[01:13:59] episode three next week I love that show Alex and I don't think I would have given it a chance if

[01:14:05] you hadn't been doing the podcast and I I once I started watching it I just loved it

[01:14:12] and it's fun up the podcast like crazy you have all those great celebrity interviews they're so

[01:14:17] interesting yeah show lends itself to podcasting because there are so many details and so many

[01:14:24] theories and it's so confusing and you need help to figure it out I will say you know Lizzy always

[01:14:30] says that's a puzzle show and then really I mean I understand what it means but now that I'm doing

[01:14:35] the rewatch I totally understand why it's puzzle show so um you know but you you you podcast on

[01:14:43] other things and and that's what's great I mean you know we got my my daughter we just dropped

[01:14:48] an episode daddy daughter bookworms we did another book and that's a labor of love just like yours is

[01:14:55] and it's just fun so it's the cutest thing ever it is I love those well you and the other five

[01:15:01] downloads that we have I appreciate it because we got to pump up some pump up the volume yeah

[01:15:08] Alex I got a question for you I'm from yes sir do you think that at the end of season two with

[01:15:14] the the I think it's two of them are out right do you think they're out or do you think they're

[01:15:21] somewhere not out I think they're still in fromville but in a different way I don't think anybody's

[01:15:30] gone I don't think everybody's left from yet okay that's my that's my theory but you know and when

[01:15:38] I look at a lot of these shows even echo I mean and and I'm not saying this to to get praise or

[01:15:46] or anything I just love watching the show like I mean yes we deep dive into some of this stuff but like

[01:15:53] I mean I say this all the time about Lizzie now we're just two people watching the show talking

[01:15:59] about it like we know nothing yeah you know I mean she brings her thing just like in this there's

[01:16:05] a lot of layers to this you bring yours you bring yours I bring mine but like I'm not an expert

[01:16:11] I know I'm not I mean I got two experts above me above me no it's not a matter you know it's not

[01:16:16] I agree and it's but it's not a matter about being an expert it's about loving it you know about

[01:16:21] having a passion for it and or understanding the context I'm sure as I should say it's you know

[01:16:26] like you can understand a scene in a marvel where it has multiple layers where I may not

[01:16:31] and and even that whole DX 9 thing I mean that's awesome I mean that is great stuff yeah but

[01:16:37] that's marvel does that all the time I know spider man movies the license plates always relate to

[01:16:42] different you know issues of spider man so that's just I'm just trained on that now

[01:16:49] perfect so that's our show folks my name is Alex and I am Patty and I'm Kirk see you soon

[01:17:12] you