74: “Taloa” (Echo S1E4)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast my name is Alex and I am Penny.

[00:00:29] Welcome to the Marvel TV Cast, a podcast dedicated to all shows that are Marvel.

[00:00:38] Today we are discussing Echo season 1 episode 4, Tala and we have a special guest with us

[00:00:48] and yeah that's right, Kirk couldn't make it because he's trapped in the Atlantaverse.

[00:00:56] He's going to be dead in Atlanta Comic Con this week when we were taping this so he is scheduled

[00:01:03] to be back in two weeks because that's what we're going to do our season finale

[00:01:08] because we want to make sure we get him and all that other good stuff. But Penny tell the listeners

[00:01:15] a little bit about the way we're doing the show. Okay, so even though Disney dropped all five episodes

[00:01:22] of Echo at once, we are watching and covering it week to week in an effort not to spoil it for any

[00:01:29] listeners who are also watching the show week to week. We've all committed to not watching ahead

[00:01:33] and indeed we have not and it's killing me because now I can't wait to see episode 5 but we

[00:01:41] wanted to keep it clean for our listeners. Absolutely and for those folks that are listening to it on a

[00:01:47] different channel or you're listening it on some other Marvel, Picaastica type channels. What we've

[00:01:57] done is we've actually kind of consolidated all the multiverse, all the channels into one Marvel

[00:02:03] TV cast on your app so this is actually episode 74 even though it's season 1 episode 4 of Echo.

[00:02:14] So if you have any questions or concerns, you can talk to the powers that be a podcast at talk

[00:02:21] podcastica.com and they will they are with with baited breath waiting for your call to answer it

[00:02:27] at any hour of the night. But let's get started. So Renaldi, why don't you tell listeners a little

[00:02:33] bit about you and your love for Marvel because when we were when Kirk had to leave or couldn't do

[00:02:42] this episode, I'm like we got to have some kind of Marvel experts so you were the first person

[00:02:47] I thought up. Yeah so when I was when I was young I was in the Spider-Man and X-Men

[00:02:52] before the MCU started and then when the MCU started it helped me to learn about a lot of new

[00:02:59] characters and and it really motivated me to read more comics of Iron Man, Captain America

[00:03:05] and a whole bunch of other characters and by this point 2024 you know I have a lot of knowledge

[00:03:11] about a lot of different characters and all started from just Robert Downey Jr's performance

[00:03:16] in the first Iron Man and now you know invested in what Marvel is trying to do with Disney Plus

[00:03:22] including the Stekko show and so yeah I think it all started in 2008 and then over the years

[00:03:29] I've just you know gained a lot of knowledge and investment in this universe. And I know you had

[00:03:37] your own Marvel podcast at one point and for whatever reason it's kind of not going right now but

[00:03:44] I'm just so happy that you have taken the time to you know come on with us because you are

[00:03:53] a Marvel expert you know all things Marvel and we are just here as mere you know passengers on this

[00:04:01] crazy car but I did want to ask you before we get started is what is your thoughts so far not only

[00:04:07] of this episode but of the first four episodes in general since you know how does this how does

[00:04:14] this fit and what did you were the expectations the same of what you thought of the what it was

[00:04:21] going to be like and and what were your thoughts of the series so far well first and foremost I

[00:04:26] want to say Kirk is a super expert you know he's way ahead of the game so I just want to shout out

[00:04:32] to Kirk but I love series in terms of we're getting to know this character because I didn't know

[00:04:42] too much about this character I knew she was like associated with Daredevil and the comic books but

[00:04:48] that was about it so I do like that we're getting to know this character but I don't know how I feel

[00:04:56] about this show this show is very different from a lot of the other Disney plus shows so I guess

[00:05:02] I'm waiting to see how it ends but I do love the fact that there she has this pass with Kingpin

[00:05:08] I think I think that's the part I like and also the combat scenes are pretty cool but I'm still

[00:05:15] kind of I'm still undecided on how I feel and I totally understand that and for those of you that

[00:05:23] have heard his name before he was a very quiet feedback person when it came to Loki he had very

[00:05:32] small amount of feedback and we took no time to read it now I mean I really appreciate the fact

[00:05:39] that you really took the time to work out all the problems that you had with your life when it

[00:05:45] came to Loki vs. and I'm just so happy that you found time to come on with me because this is the

[00:05:50] first time we've gotten a podcast together and you know he's a zed head yeah as well as Penny

[00:05:56] and we just I just love the fact that we get to actually do a zoom to zoom face to face whatever it's

[00:06:01] called and I'm just this is just good stuff so Penny what is your first take on this episode?

[00:06:10] I called it that we would get the grandma's backstory in episode four.

[00:06:15] Okay everybody let's all applaud Penny called it and then the grandma would have had some kind

[00:06:23] of knowledge about the ancestral powers and all that stuff so I had a moment of patting myself on

[00:06:29] the back about that but overall I thought she actually is patting herself on the back right now.

[00:06:37] No no no harm in doing that. I thought the episode was not as thrilling as last week last week had

[00:06:44] the really fun like a team action stuff going on at the I at the roller rink but all the stuff

[00:06:52] between Echo and Kingpin was just riveting and I continue to love all the side characters so

[00:07:01] I'm still thumbs up. You know you said something just now that really kind of hits the nail in the

[00:07:06] head. The thing about this show that I just love is it's like an old 80s or 90s show that you'd see

[00:07:16] on like you know the CW or the what they didn't have the CW back then but like it would be sweet

[00:07:23] it would be right in between you know Knight Rider and Baywatch I know that it would be impossible

[00:07:30] but you know that Knight Rider, Batterscala Galactica or like Dark Angel or I'm saying and yeah it fits

[00:07:38] right into that. Yeah because we have to always talk about Buffy but you know what I mean you're

[00:07:43] right it does find a fit there and and that's what I kind of love about it it's not the villain of

[00:07:50] the week because it almost feels like it is but it's not but it has that kind of feel and

[00:07:57] you know I was talking to Kirk you know because one of the things that he's doing is he's doing an

[00:08:01] actual Echo piece and for this show for Atlanta Comic Con and and I'll have it on his website

[00:08:09] and it's got Echo in her in her suit with Kingpin on one side and and and Daredevil on the other

[00:08:17] and it looks like comic book and I you know folks when he when he puts it up on the

[00:08:24] uh on Facebook because we'll definitely put it up on Facebook for you it looks awesome with the

[00:08:29] swirls on the top and you know it's just really kind of encompasses everything that's going on

[00:08:34] but that that said since you're our guest Rinaldi why don't you give us your first point

[00:08:44] that you have today. For me it was the surprise that Echo had regarding Kingpin's intentions

[00:08:52] uh you know particularly that he was like let's just have dinner like we always used to

[00:08:59] used to have you know she thought he was coming with violence because she blew up his train but it

[00:09:05] was it was like he was trying to rekindle what they had in the past.

[00:09:13] Yeah he was going home in a really weird way Kingpin could not have been any more creepy or

[00:09:19] tonight. I mean in this episode um yeah you know he goes out of his way to be so generous yet

[00:09:30] so not generous in the same way. Transaction in the way that he approaches his relationship with Maya

[00:09:39] it's there's a lot of classic grooming and abuse behavior going on right he isolates her from

[00:09:45] other people he's I'm the only one who will understand you we are family we are the only people

[00:09:50] that can trust each other. He killed the sign language interpreter he doesn't want her to have

[00:09:55] anybody else that knows what's going on in their lives. He's very possessive of her and the fact

[00:10:01] that he didn't come to to kill her or get revenge but to win her back it's he's more upset about

[00:10:10] losing a possession than he is about being shot in the face because ownership and control

[00:10:17] is his bread and butter and he wants her power and her ability but he also wants her unquestioning

[00:10:24] loyalty. He's messed up Kingpin is messed well I think I think he thinks of Maya as an asset more than

[00:10:30] a person yeah I don't think he can think of anyone as a real person the story he tells about his

[00:10:36] father and and the hammer and all that stuff tells me that he is a sociopath something and it

[00:10:42] wasn't even the same hammer yeah something happened to him in his childhood a lot of bad stuff

[00:10:46] happened to him and he can't really see other people as real people everybody is just either an

[00:10:53] extension of himself or an enemy or an asset there's no room for anyone else to be a whole real person.

[00:11:01] He's he's so selfish that what's the first thing that he does when he sees her he opens up her

[00:11:08] eye he puts a contact whatever thing in his and his uh in her and her eye in her eye so that

[00:11:16] he doesn't have to learn sign language yeah I mean that is cool and he can also track her but

[00:11:21] what an ass he is pretty much I mean and you know he he's been I mean you know that whole ice cream scene

[00:11:32] which at first value you think it's really kind of a sweet type of thing but you know when she

[00:11:38] just stands there and kind of like watches he's like oh she's my kind of girl yeah you know I mean

[00:11:43] like you know we can really have some we could do some damage with this uh so I'm totally with

[00:11:49] you I mean he wanted to make sure he had a nice white suit so she didn't see the blood but yet

[00:11:57] you know you hit the nail on the head also with the whole family thing and there is some there

[00:12:05] is some problems that I do have with with um not Maya but uh the program mother that will get into

[00:12:14] but you know families everything for this group and that's what it comes down to and

[00:12:21] you know I love how she throws the wine in the sink yeah like it was tainted or something yeah

[00:12:30] and then you know they have like shasta which which is probably like one step above like

[00:12:36] I don't know what it's like the worst it's like it's like dollar store trash uh you know um

[00:12:44] soda and you know did she look so funny she has a little shasta and whatever

[00:12:49] it just seems so stupid but um but yeah I mean he was trying to create something that

[00:12:55] she wanted she wasn't buying what he was selling that's for that sort of I think he's up

[00:13:02] I think he's upset because he feels like they're the same because they both have

[00:13:06] dysfunctional families like you know like his father at least according to what he said

[00:13:12] his father was abusive so he killed him and then we know Maya's father was a criminal

[00:13:18] and that's why the grandmother blamed him for it but he keeps for but he keeps forgetting one little

[00:13:29] tidbit he's the one that killed him oh yeah or got him killed oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:13:38] yeah yeah he's gonna set it up you know so I mean yeah I guess I guess the uh what is it history

[00:13:44] is written by the winners and god knows the winner that's how he operates he writes the story

[00:13:51] not reality yeah he's a little in fantasy land he's definitely a comic book character um

[00:13:58] I just want to ask her an all the before I get to your first point penny what do you think he's

[00:14:04] all about the superserum do you think he's taken superserum I'm not sure I know in the comic that

[00:14:12] was like a whole debate like is he have a certain and it seems like in the show they're just kind of

[00:14:18] going they're going on that road but I don't know it would make it would make sense if he had

[00:14:26] some type of enhancement but I don't know I don't know whoever get that question answered

[00:14:30] no I don't know either I just I think what they've done with Maya is they've really set her up

[00:14:38] for with this with this implant set her up so that the other MCU characters can talk to her

[00:14:46] yeah seamlessly and you know that would be I mean they've made and you've made this point penny

[00:14:53] several times how they use silence so well and I think that you know I think they're still

[00:15:03] going to use silence but I think that you know having that between care you know between the good

[00:15:11] guys is gonna really be helpful hopefully so so penny what is your first point I wanted to talk

[00:15:16] a little bit about the conversation she has with Chula you know Henry rightly deducts that

[00:15:24] something spiritual is going on and that she needs Chula I get the sense that this community they

[00:15:30] live in is really small everybody knows each other everybody knows each others business and Chula

[00:15:35] is known to be sort of a spiritual leader if not an official leader of of this tribe in in this town

[00:15:42] and so Henry takes her to Chula and makes her go in there Maya is sort of you know recalcitrant but goes

[00:15:49] in and it's so interesting right they start with with with Chula being like what's some cookies like

[00:15:55] trying to act like things are normal and Maya is like you know cut the shit don't act like things

[00:16:00] are normal just talk to me and they really have the heart to heart and Chula tells her honestly

[00:16:05] what happened was she was so angry she couldn't stand to be around Maya because she was so hurt by

[00:16:11] losing her own daughter well what she doesn't do is apologize to Maya for what that did to her Maya

[00:16:17] is 100% right she's like I was a child and I needed you and you abandoned me and then she also

[00:16:24] says at one point that Henry left her alone in New York and I was like oh was Henry in New York so

[00:16:29] she has a more of a relationship with Henry because he was with her father in her in New York for a while

[00:16:35] and that sort of filled in some blanks for me but her anger at Chula makes complete sense that she

[00:16:40] felt abandoned by her at her most vulnerable time and Chula never made that up to her and still

[00:16:48] hasn't apologized to her she did the first step right which was admitting exactly what happened

[00:16:52] and being honest about it and and saying I was I was confused I was hurt I was scared like things

[00:17:00] you know but Maya's right she chose herself over Maya and you know if you're in this situation out

[00:17:06] there where there's a death in your family and there is a child involved I just urge people

[00:17:10] with the child needs first they don't know what's going on they don't have any life skills to cope

[00:17:16] with it they need you more than you need you at that time see to your point I'm really mad at her

[00:17:23] at Chula because yeah how do you talk about family family family and then to zone your

[00:17:30] granddaughter who has no one yeah I mean she wasn't mad at her over time she was mad at her from

[00:17:40] the minute her daughters died and I just don't understand it it made no sense whatsoever it's a very

[00:17:49] cold selfish I think please don't leave oh no I think another problem is you're using the

[00:17:59] father's criminal lifestyle as like oh like if my daughter didn't marry you she would be alive but

[00:18:07] then that pushed Maya into follow in her father's footsteps where if you were actually there for her

[00:18:14] she would have a better role model in her life I would think if if Chula was that upset I would say

[00:18:25] I want to keep my granddaughter yeah I want to keep her away from you I want to I mean like how many

[00:18:31] I mean how many grandparents have raised kids that aren't theirs you know I mean they've raised their

[00:18:38] grandkids I don't think the father would have growing up happen but it would have meant a lot to Maya

[00:18:45] for her grandmother to have at least tried right like now I tried to take you from your father he

[00:18:50] wouldn't let me is very different from you haven't heard from me in 20 years or or one better is

[00:18:57] if she was like caring in any way when she left in any way even if they didn't talk

[00:19:05] if she came back she knew well at least it was some love but what were you gonna say about all

[00:19:12] the I think I cut you off I was just wondering if Bonnie knows that if it seems she might be

[00:19:17] in the dark about all that because she's like you know why are you pushing me away and it might be

[00:19:23] because Maya doesn't want to tell Bonnie what Chula did I don't know if I'm jumping too far ahead

[00:19:31] because what Chula did was bad so bad that it may be hard for Maya to even

[00:19:37] vocal back from it come back from it but even just vocalize it even just like

[00:19:43] just verbally tell tell people because that's a lot to process emotionally it's easier to just

[00:19:50] I will bury it and a little kid who doesn't have the life skills of an adult is going to blame

[00:19:58] themselves so little Maya all alone in New York her father is working for the kingpin and so he's

[00:20:05] trying to be a good dad but he's probably not around as much as she needs him and she's thinking

[00:20:10] my grandmother hates me she hates all of us she hates this whole family I have nobody and that's

[00:20:17] just sets her up perfectly for kingpin to groom her it's a tragedy oh yeah no no I mean he saw the

[00:20:25] writing on the wall kingpin right away and you know that was one of his right hand guys so he knew the

[00:20:31] deal and he he just needed to know that she was up for the challenge and then once that was the

[00:20:39] the key it was it was over well the sad thing the sad thing is I think Maya is better a better criminal

[00:20:46] than her father and that might be why kingpin had him killed because he wasn't useful she was more

[00:20:53] useful than he was like she was it's like the daughter surpassing the father yeah no I mean Maya

[00:21:02] definitely learned from the best where her father just learned on the job yeah you know there's

[00:21:09] a difference like you said you know when it's not by accident when you've got families that are good

[00:21:18] at certain things just because you're born into it I mean she was basically born into this lifestyle

[00:21:24] yeah of criminal mayhem and mischief so at it you know but I just I'm so mad at Tua I mean

[00:21:34] especially with the fact that she knows about the powers she had the powers

[00:21:42] when she was pregnant the ancestors came to her you know I mean that was a cool scene too um and

[00:21:52] I know we're kind of jumping around but it's kind of all related I think yeah uh I just

[00:21:58] the thing about this show that's kind of confusing is not I don't know if it's necessarily

[00:22:06] confusing and and please you know tell me I don't know I'm talking about or not but there's a lot

[00:22:12] of moving parts with this thing and and it's not a known story they're kind of making it up

[00:22:21] to us I mean I know Kirk could probably tell us a little bit more that you know in the comic but um

[00:22:28] but I just I just love how they're tying it all back into the traditions of the actual people

[00:22:36] and you know you look at the um event that they're having and you know Tula is kind of

[00:22:46] the matriarch trying to set it all up and it's like half of what it was when they had the

[00:22:52] stick ball competition under um I can't think of her name off hand uh the one that was in the stick

[00:23:01] ball one uh but but my point being is you know it's just kind of an eating so um anyway um

[00:23:11] anything else penny with that with Tula um just that uh she told Maya that her mother Tula I had

[00:23:20] healing hands and I think that that had a bigger impact on Maya than we realize I think

[00:23:27] that that is going to be what saves her from going down the complete dark road in the next episode

[00:23:36] healing hands healing hands just the concept of being a healer that someone could have healing hands

[00:23:42] oh yeah I think it's um I think it's really really relevant and um gonna come back next week

[00:23:52] well I just think that now that Maya understands the fact that this stuff that's happening has

[00:24:01] meaning and she's not crazy uh I've been watching Percy Jackson the series on Disney Plus

[00:24:10] and it's very ironic that they kind of have the same type of journey in the sense of he didn't know

[00:24:19] where he came from and and I think you could make the case that the closer she is with her family

[00:24:28] the more her powers kind of increase the same way Percy the more he went on his quest

[00:24:37] he became stronger and understood the the game so to speak um but uh so Ronaldo what what's your second point

[00:24:46] on this um just Henry um as a go-between of Tula and Maya like he he understands there's deeper

[00:24:57] traditions of their community but he was also involved with his brother with in New York with

[00:25:03] the kingpin so he's kind of like in between both worlds so to speak uh you know I love Henry

[00:25:12] and uh I enjoy any moment that he's on the screen but he had some powerful moments with Maya this week

[00:25:19] also admitting to her that he failed her and being very open and vulnerable with her I thought

[00:25:25] that was powerful yeah he said he was oh you know why I'm 45 years old and not married

[00:25:32] and it's because I made bad choices and one of them was working for the kingpin you know like I

[00:25:38] can't have a family because they would be at risk you know they're they'll always they would

[00:25:43] always be at risk because I worked for him and I don't know if I'm putting words in his mouth but

[00:25:48] I think that's what he was trying yeah oh no I think that's exactly what he was saying yeah and

[00:25:53] that he already has long he's alone because he's yeah including his brother

[00:26:01] yeah it's very hunger days like hey Mitch right he just he couldn't take the pain so he just was

[00:26:07] alone all the time what I find really interesting is how amazing all of her family signing is considering

[00:26:17] she's been a gone for so long did you ever notice that yeah they're all really fluid like and it

[00:26:24] was like I have to say watching them yeah it's just I'll get to a point I'm sorry I didn't need

[00:26:32] to cut you off with your point it's just but but with Henry I know how much you love a good Henry

[00:26:37] story oh yeah love Henry and you know basically for the listeners you know we all know that he could

[00:26:44] read the phone book tour and that would be fine he makes the whole sign lane signing and verbally talking

[00:26:51] easier to kind of get into like the actor yeah he's some kind of charisma about him when he does it

[00:26:59] he's an artist with it I don't know how to explain it other than that I mean it

[00:27:06] and again I please forgive me but it looks not only that they're signing American sign language but

[00:27:15] it seems like it's more part of their culture with hands I know that doesn't sound right but just

[00:27:23] the whole everything's about earth this whole season if they came from the earth they talked

[00:27:32] about the birds they've talked about all sorts of different things and you know the the shadow

[00:27:39] puppets you know everything is about you know the earth using your hands trying to so it just it

[00:27:47] just seems like it just a feel good part of the whole thing I mean when you know I know this

[00:27:51] isn't this episode but the episode before when he was talking to but my is cousin

[00:28:02] and you know he's she's basically saying get out now and he was saying it but he wasn't saying it

[00:28:08] he wasn't telling or he was telling her and sign and the fact that they still use sign to communicate

[00:28:13] with each other I think is kind of strange but also maybe that's just something that they all did

[00:28:20] to kind of communicate with each other when people weren't around you know or when when people

[00:28:26] it's like it's like your parents when they start speaking in another language you know that your

[00:28:30] home language because you don't want the kids to know what's going on kind of thing but yeah or maybe

[00:28:35] there are other deaf people in the community it's certainly believable I think that they were saying

[00:28:42] that Taloa was deaf as well but I can't remember the first episode well enough to remember if she

[00:28:49] was speaking and or signing when we saw her I guess she was speaking no she I think she was speaking

[00:28:56] as well she was signing she was speaking I can't remember I'll have to go back and check yeah um you know

[00:29:04] I I don't remember now I thought they all were but at this point yeah it's so hard to remember um

[00:29:12] but uh I also enjoy the way Henry signs there is a grace to it and I think he's just a very

[00:29:20] graceful person uh but because you love Henry I think that all of them are doing a remarkable job

[00:29:30] of having a motion come through in the way that they sign and the way that they speak and their

[00:29:37] faces and they're not always all three the same emotions and it's really interesting

[00:29:43] that absolutely I mean oh I know it my what I was gonna say before I just love how

[00:29:52] if we go down this little tangent for a second of signing how you can feel all the emotions

[00:29:59] with the signs whether it's kidding around whether it's anger love whatever it is

[00:30:06] um they do a great job in this series of really and Henry I really think does it the best

[00:30:18] um shows whose emotions on it on a sleeve so to speak um I was really kind of worried about that

[00:30:25] going into it and then you look at someone like the kingpin who has the electronic hands which

[00:30:32] there's no there's no motion yeah it's the words but if there's no emotion so you know like I

[00:30:40] said it's more like a dance than it is anything else of communicating even if they're just using

[00:30:45] the one hand it just seems you know it's just really amazing so penny what's your next point um

[00:30:52] let's talk about biscuits he was only in the episode briefly but they gave him the episode thesis

[00:30:59] statement which is there's nothing too broken to fix if you want it bad enough don't throw it away

[00:31:06] and he says that chula always told him that and that's pretty hypocritical because chula threw away

[00:31:12] her relationship with Maya over the anger she had at Maya's father but she wants to repair it now

[00:31:19] I think and you know biscuits is trying to fix the truck but it's really about Maya choosing

[00:31:27] her her tribal family her roots over the kingpin and his criminal ways even though her connection with

[00:31:36] these people is broken that she can still fix it there's still possibility in there and

[00:31:42] kingpin is also feeling this way because he wants to repair his relationship with Maya

[00:31:48] he doesn't think that's too broken to throw away and uh I think we can all learn a little bit from

[00:31:54] that thesis statement that you know you can always fix at least part of a situation or a

[00:32:00] relationship and and don't throw it away if if it's something you care about I've been thinking a lot

[00:32:06] about it the last few days and and I think it's kind of a beautiful statement and it led into this

[00:32:12] gorgeous montage of you know chula working on the outfit that she had started maybe for

[00:32:20] Taloa it's unclear and and you know doing this intricate leather work with over the song

[00:32:28] down to the river to prey by Allison Kraus which I always thought was a Christian song but

[00:32:33] the lyrics could refer to any kind of spirituality and it was extremely beautiful and emotional

[00:32:40] to watch I thought no absolutely and I think that it had a little bit of a miss marvel

[00:32:51] feel to it where she was making the outfit for yeah I mean and I mean that in a good way I don't

[00:32:59] mean that in a bad way at all yeah because miss marbles mother is the one who makes her the the

[00:33:04] outfit with the finally kind of gets on board and she's like listen if you're gonna do this we're

[00:33:09] gonna do it our what yeah with like the Pakistani fabrics and everything yeah so cool

[00:33:14] and I just love miss marvel because you know she's fantastic well she's from New Jersey so you know

[00:33:23] Kamala I love you I'm telling I'm saying you know all good things come

[00:33:30] all good things come from New Jersey so that said I just think that it was just really

[00:33:38] interesting how she's going through her own journey you know she didn't realize I mean for lack

[00:33:47] of a better term she told her story and how they busted her out of the hospital and and the midwives

[00:33:58] and they did that for I think it was like 17 or 10 hours or of labor and they're holding you

[00:34:04] know she's biting down on on wood and everything else and she's standing up oh god it was it

[00:34:11] it was painful just a watch nevermind can't imagine what that was like but you know she thought

[00:34:17] she finished her journey and her journey hasn't ended either and I think what happened and again

[00:34:26] I could be wrong because we just talked about this a little you know when it comes about her journey

[00:34:31] is that her being the elder doesn't mean that she's necessarily the she's more to do yeah and it's

[00:34:39] not as the elder and I think she doesn't realize that and although she's the keeper of the the secrets

[00:34:46] so to speak you know all they say is it's a way you know in karate what's a black belt it's a

[00:34:53] it's a white belt that came for X amount of years you know I mean and that's kind of the way it

[00:34:58] looks like you know because we're always learning we're always learning and I think that's

[00:35:02] always really kind of neat but her her her speech with with Maya I just it's just although I'm still

[00:35:10] mad at her the actress knows how to forget act so I know we're going I'm going back to that but it's

[00:35:15] just it was just really kind of neat maybe I'm just getting a little emotional because it's family

[00:35:20] and whatever so uh Ronaldo what's your next one oh yeah it was um echo just leaving I guess

[00:35:31] some that's it's the ending of the episode but I don't know if we want to go there yet now we can

[00:35:36] go there hey you're the one to brought up so let's do it but her leaving and then Kingfin losing

[00:35:41] his temper so it kind of reinforces what we were talking about earlier about like he's thinking

[00:35:48] very transactionally like okay I like we had this dinner you know and you know I could have killed

[00:35:55] you for blowing up my train but I didn't kill you for blowing up my train and actually

[00:36:01] actually think what you did what you did with the train is impressive it's like I did all this

[00:36:06] and then you just leave I don't know where you are I don't know where you're going and so

[00:36:11] and the fact that I didn't expect her to just up and leave or even be successful at doing that

[00:36:16] so it kind of leaves it kind of open ended um in terms of what what's going to happen next with her

[00:36:22] and what the decision she's gonna make well absolutely I mean it was definitely a jaw dropper

[00:36:32] I think you know the Kingpin has knows that he needs her here's a question for you guys who needs

[00:36:44] who more does the Kingpin need Maya more or does Maya need the Kingpin now I beat the obvious answer is

[00:36:54] the first but does Maya really need the Kingpin so panning this gets into my my final point which is

[00:37:02] that I don't I can't figure out what Kingpin wants is he motivated by what he thinks of as love

[00:37:12] for Maya you know his twisted version of love does he really want her back because he thinks of her

[00:37:17] as a daughter or something or does he have some ulterior motive is he planning some larger revenge

[00:37:24] for getting shot in the face is he does he know about her powers in some way and want to

[00:37:34] use them and manipulate her I can't figure out what he wants and so I don't know why he wants my

[00:37:40] back there's a there's a thing circling around the internet where he wants her to take over his

[00:37:47] criminal operations so that he can be mayor oh and begin yeah you know I mean people have said that

[00:37:56] it's not in the text of this show but no it's not yeah in the comics in the comics he becomes mayor

[00:38:03] so I can see why people are thinking that but like and again I mean again I'm with you a thousand

[00:38:11] percent penny because like you I know nothing about this this story in the comics I've never read

[00:38:18] the comic I know nothing about it but um and that's why I you know when Kirk asked me to do this

[00:38:26] I was a little hesitant but you know this show just like all the other Disney plus shows I believe

[00:38:33] within reason could stand alone by themselves yeah you know I mean you look at you look at Hawkeye

[00:38:42] do you really need to see all of the stuff before to watch Hawkeye it's good to know but it

[00:38:53] it's a redemption I mean you know his his trials and tribulations you you could go into a blind

[00:39:00] I think oh you know we're all do you know the story better anybody well do you think that or my off base

[00:39:06] no I think I agree I think they I think these Disney plus shows and Marvel have done a good job of like

[00:39:14] like that first episode they kind of lay out what the characters want so you don't need the comic you

[00:39:19] kind of like like they take the motivations of the characters in the comic laid out for

[00:39:25] a first time viewer in that first episode and that way you can fall story to the last episode

[00:39:32] right right now to to the original question do you think Kingpin need her more or does she need

[00:39:40] him more because she still does sort of need him um she kind of does in the sense of like she wants

[00:39:50] belonging or someone to belong to and she's dealing with family problems and when she was

[00:39:56] with Kingpin it was like very easy to just bond with him but he kind of was taking advantage of her

[00:40:02] anger you know right but then he he himself is just angry you know so it's like I don't know

[00:40:11] my theory and I know this isn't like the text of the show but I think he's fighting a war with some

[00:40:17] other criminal organization and he needs a right hand to navigate that war like I think there's

[00:40:26] a larger conflict that he's in and he doesn't really have anybody he can rely on except her

[00:40:33] but that that's my theory no no and that's you know what hey I'm up for I'm up for a good theory

[00:40:39] I mean that's why we podcast right is to make bold statements and when we're wrong never say that

[00:40:44] we said him um you know that they're on tape uh no but I you know I I said this in the beginning of

[00:40:51] the series you know is Maya good or bad and you could make a case for you know she started out she

[00:40:59] was an angry girl she's an angry woman I should say I mean she was so you know out to I thought

[00:41:07] it was funny when she kicked ice cream vendor I'm not gonna lie that was funny that little girl oh my

[00:41:14] that is every nine-year-olds like dream right there it's to kick the ice cream man when they say now

[00:41:21] yeah well that guy I mean yeah he's doing it coming what he got but he had something like my daughter

[00:41:27] probably would have done that and she's the sweetest person in the world I mean he was a jerk

[00:41:31] yeah he's been really wrong yeah but um he also takes flies off of the wings of uh

[00:41:40] a bug still um yeah he's a horrible person uh I didn't cry for him uh getting beat up by the

[00:41:48] kingpin it was pretty brutal though that's a brutal beating it was he got beat down yeah that was

[00:41:55] harsh and then when kingpin and Maya walk away I've been thinking this the whole time of the series

[00:42:01] but there's just so much Thanos and Gamora going on and and it's so similar because Thanos always

[00:42:09] wanted Gamora to come back to him too he was like I don't care if you tried to kill me at your

[00:42:13] my daughter and I love you until you know he had to sacrifice her but I was like have we seen

[00:42:19] this story before it's kind of familiar okay so sit that said um Kirk brought this up and I'd

[00:42:28] love to get your take Ronaldo and about the street avengers meaning you know

[00:42:39] because Penny brought up the whole Thanos Gamora and now we've got you know kingpin

[00:42:46] and um Maya what's your what's your thoughts on that that street version or that earth version

[00:42:55] of avengers slash that storyline is that something that you're excited about as a as a Marvel fan

[00:43:02] or are you looking for something different no I'm definitely I'm very invested in seeing more

[00:43:10] street level characters um I could be wrong Kirk is welcome to correct me next week but I think

[00:43:17] there was a series called Marvel Knights where it was all these street characters in New York

[00:43:23] forming a team no yeah no there there was one I'm just saying yeah they called it Marvel Knights so

[00:43:30] it would be cool to see that live action on Disney plus um with different characters um how was

[00:43:37] that different from the defenders or was it the same kind of group just a different it was

[00:43:44] it was just this it was the same group but a different name and not as many characters but yeah same

[00:43:50] same concept so it'll be cool to bring it I mean essentially they would just be bringing it back

[00:43:55] but to Disney plus instead of athletes yeah I mean I always just like to go back so bad

[00:44:00] well that was my favorite one that was my favorite one out of those four I'm not gonna lie and

[00:44:07] I hate to admit this especially with Penny in the room I've never seen Jessica Jones oh no I

[00:44:12] could never forgive you Alex no I know you can't I'm surprised you talked to me now um no but

[00:44:19] I you know you I love bringing these bigger Marvel questions up because one there I just find them fun

[00:44:27] you know I find it fun and and to nobody knows what anybody's gonna do yeah the only people that

[00:44:33] know are the execs it wherever a nurse nurse I'll not gonna tell us um but but three they have so

[00:44:41] much awesome content to pull from it's just gonna be so interesting what direction they go into

[00:44:50] especially now with the multiverse and they're bringing Deadpool they're bringing the X-Men

[00:44:55] into the MCU and um how is that all going to I mean the big question is where were they

[00:45:03] for the big war you know why weren't they there I mean they're gonna justify by saying it was a

[00:45:09] different multiverse yeah but um I mean it's an easy way to write it right in there but

[00:45:16] it'd be neat if they could if they could uh definitely um write a better twist on it than that

[00:45:22] but we'll see what happens um uh and oh Penny did you have another point I thought you did

[00:45:30] I have just one tiny thing and it's not even a note or a point it's just that I can't stop thinking

[00:45:36] about the movie zombie land and how um is his name Tallahassee no that's what he Harrelson's name

[00:45:44] uh the other character the one played by Jesse Eisenberg you know yes this list of rules for

[00:45:49] surviving the zombie apocalypse and yeah a big one Ohio right is um a big one is uh double tap

[00:45:58] and every time I look at Kingpin with his one eye and his other eye doesn't even look that bad

[00:46:04] I'm like man she should have double tap that like you you gotta double tap to make sure that

[00:46:09] your hit succeeds because you don't want exactly what's happening I'm sorry it was Columbus

[00:46:13] Columbus it was Columbus I was thinking Ohio but it's Columbus yeah I forgot

[00:46:17] Columbus they're all city names uh and exactly but yeah I kept every time Kingpin comes up on screen

[00:46:22] especially when he pulls the eye patch off I'm like double tap like it's like a refrain in my head

[00:46:29] see selfishly I'm happy she just didn't do that because now we can

[00:46:33] we will get this Marvel Street universe on Disney Plus like if she had double tapped

[00:46:39] I would not have been it I wouldn't be entertained because like

[00:46:42] I love the street stuff like I don't I love the grittiness so I mean I like a lot of different

[00:46:48] things in Marvel but that's my favorite world to play I'm gonna tell you right now

[00:46:54] if he was sitting in a chair like when he come out in this episode and just

[00:47:01] said my uh I would have lost my shit because it would have been just like full mental jacket yeah

[00:47:09] and I I just oh my god he scares the shit out of me yeah and I know that yeah oh my god

[00:47:19] I know that role was like a thousand years ago he's done all sorts of different things

[00:47:24] but that friggin character Goma pile was Goma pile was seriously crazy he was he was short of a picnic

[00:47:34] short of sandwiches and I just that's all I think about when I see him and he's a megalomaniac

[00:47:41] kingpin so it makes it even like more uh plausible that he would go that way yeah

[00:47:49] but I know it's not gonna happen we talked a lot about the acting on this show but we haven't

[00:47:53] really talked about Vincent D'Occrio and just how well he inhabits this kingpin character

[00:48:00] how menacing he is the way he moves kind of slowly but with power more like how you know like

[00:48:09] uh aircraft carrier moves slowly not like how somebody who's weak moves slowly like he's just

[00:48:15] he oozes power and violence and his soft spoken way he delivers his speeches he is a scary scary man

[00:48:24] and I remember seeing Vincent D'Occrio in a lot of roles early in this career and then he did that

[00:48:30] amazing men in black role where he's an alien in a human body and I had no idea he had it in him

[00:48:38] to do that and then when they announced him for this role when he was in the Daredevil series I was

[00:48:45] did not forget oh maybe and then you know he knocks it out of the park and he's so good in this

[00:48:52] that you forget that he's acting almost he's so good um yeah definitely he's definitely

[00:49:00] exactly what you want in the character that is for sure that is for sure um but what we're gonna do

[00:49:08] let me just look at the time oh my gosh how do we talk for a whole hour uh we are gonna take a quick

[00:49:15] break and when we come back we're gonna talk about some news and we're gonna talk about some

[00:49:22] all sorts of good stuff so catch on the other side

[00:49:27] and we're back from the lobby and Penny do you have any news that yeah so I read it a really

[00:49:40] interesting article and it's kind of like a dubious honor but the budget for echo set a

[00:49:46] surprising record for Marvel Studios it's the least expensive of all of the Disney plus shows

[00:49:53] that they have produced so uh it's not a secret that I loved shehulk I podcasted about shehulk

[00:50:00] it is not getting a second season at least not anytime soon partially because the budget was

[00:50:06] gigantic it cost $250 million supposedly to make that show echo came in at 40 million

[00:50:14] which is staggering and if it even got halfway decent ratings it means that Marvel could make a lot

[00:50:24] more shows like this so I think it's really good news for all of us that it's because it's because the actors

[00:50:29] were cheap and also there's not tons of CGI right it's like it's all very realistic

[00:50:35] and so a Jessica Jones a Daredevil these street level heroes can have shows that are a lot cheaper

[00:50:43] than the other shows that Marvel makes like secret invasion was over 200 million as well it's just

[00:50:51] 40 million is just by comparison so reasonable that I hope that Marvel is like let's make 10 of those

[00:50:59] instead of you know two super expensive shows although please make shehulk too

[00:51:05] yeah please see mead is lag the midter lag out of like parts around the junkyard and

[00:51:13] they are very economical I'm telling you and you know they're

[00:51:20] no but I think that's a really interesting thing and I don't know if that's you know when

[00:51:25] I read that originally I'm like well I'm surprised people aren't outraged because of the fact that

[00:51:31] it was the lowest budgeted thing and it's the word that's about marginalized people yeah exactly

[00:51:38] I mean yeah you got them on the cheap I mean you know whatever but I just think that hopefully

[00:51:45] that this this goes to show you you don't need to make a blockbuster with a blockbuster budget

[00:51:54] now I mean we're in a bubble or maybe I'm in a bubble I don't really read a lot of the stuff but

[00:52:01] from everything I've read it seems like it's been a success but I mean

[00:52:06] I don't know I mean I keep going back to this one thing um that Stan Lee said and he was talking

[00:52:16] about black Panther and it was like this A&E special about Marvel and he's like

[00:52:23] would you have ever thought a white kid would wear a black Panther costume for Halloween

[00:52:31] and that's happening yeah the same way you would think your average white kid would wear a Maya outfit

[00:52:42] an echo outfit for Halloween I'm hoping that it does become mainstream and that you know

[00:52:50] the that not only the deaf community but the non-deaf community or the hearing community can really

[00:52:59] embrace her and I think that this is one of the few times I know we've talked about this

[00:53:07] before Penny you know this is a this is a strong female character that breaks a lot that checks

[00:53:16] a lot of boxes yeah more than just her it's her being female I think is actually

[00:53:23] a couple of layers down right it's from all the other things amputee and chalk top are her

[00:53:34] her biggest identities right and then then female is in there but that doesn't seem to be

[00:53:40] a big part of her character there's no there's no gender issues or romance issues or anything going

[00:53:47] on in this story so that's kind of irrelevant she just happens to be female and the powers seem

[00:53:53] to be female right they're they're matrilineal in the way that they're passed down but I agree with

[00:53:59] you that that it's it's a tertiary part of her and that her other identities are much more

[00:54:06] important and much more interesting for a viewer right like I love being able to see a slice of

[00:54:14] of chalk top life and see what you know their culture is like because it's not something I get to

[00:54:20] see every day so imagine you were back in the 70s or 80s when they created her okay let's get a

[00:54:28] character and you put her in this situation I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall

[00:54:33] when they actually proposed this yeah I mean like it was pretty culturally appropriate of

[00:54:39] so I looked it up it was she first appeared in Daredevil in 1999 so that's not too far back yeah

[00:54:48] that's pretty recent yeah it seems like Daredevil is like oh the way to introduce like Jessica Jones

[00:54:56] has ties to Daredevil as well so it seems like I guess I really need to watch Daredevil

[00:55:03] he's kind of like the Iron Man of the Street level universe

[00:55:07] like he's he's he's the hub yeah now do you still have the same affinity for Daredevil any as you do Henry

[00:55:18] um I enjoy Daredevil I think he is a little bit of a excuse my language fuckboy and uh you know

[00:55:28] he he gets together with Jennifer Walters in shehalk and and I think that they are a good pair

[00:55:35] but I would not personally want to be involved with Daredevil the way I would with Henry

[00:55:42] so you like that you like the guys that are the bad boys huh I do like a bad boy but not too bad

[00:55:50] I understand not uh you need to get it together boy yeah like Henry

[00:55:54] see Henry Henry makes his own money he might be crooked but he can make his own money and he

[00:55:59] like runs a business he takes care of his people and and the most important part he's trying to make

[00:56:05] he's trying to make America skate again he is trying to make America skate again and I respect that

[00:56:12] Henry's got it together mad doesn't yeah uh also I have a no lawyers rule so Matt Murdoch is out

[00:56:19] just out of my dating pool we've had a lot of problems no work though does it does that count

[00:56:24] does that it's it's not about that it's about the lawyer brain and how I have enough fit

[00:56:29] off my own I don't need another one okay yeah we have enough lawyers on this cast as it is um

[00:56:37] no but I I just love that um you know they are intertwining everything it's making sense

[00:56:45] I think they did a great job with um uh winter soldier where they really use the movies

[00:56:53] they did the same thing with Loki and I think they're they did the same thing with Hawkeye into this

[00:56:59] my point being is they're they're really doing a great job of intertwining everything yeah Ryan

[00:57:07] Reynolds posted on social media um I think on Wednesday this past a few days ago I'll say a few days

[00:57:15] ago um in late January that Deadpool 3 finished filming so it's official not with filming and yeah

[00:57:23] and as post he thanked everybody that was involved with the production and you're welcome

[00:57:30] and uh according to this website bleeding cool it's the only MCU film released in 2024 that's

[00:57:39] gonna be released in 2024 oh that is the rumor that that um Kirk had said earlier I'm the podcast

[00:57:48] uh and when we were doing Loki vs and I just can't believe it's gonna be the only one but

[00:57:56] hey it is what it is and we'll do the best we can with that and there has no

[00:58:01] I was gonna say that that has to be some surprises considering it's a multiverse movie

[00:58:06] and it's the only movie coming out oh they're gonna they're gonna probably throw everything into it

[00:58:13] um now they can go to 300 million because it's the only one so it's like it's like you know

[00:58:18] yeah audiences are gonna be starved for some superhero action and just crowd the theaters

[00:58:24] it's gonna be a huge movie I think absolutely I mean you know but um so that said

[00:58:32] what are you guys watching these days uh Reynolds or no penny what are you watching right now

[00:58:38] well you know I'm doing my buffy rewatch for the still slaying podcast and I have been

[00:58:45] complimenting that with a charmed rewatch because I watched buffy and charmed together when

[00:58:51] they first came out so I'm watching them together again charmed is hilarious it is so unrealistic

[00:58:57] and campy and over the top and a fashion show and uh I love charmed it's so fun it's so bad it's so

[00:59:05] bad it makes no sense and it's delightful um on a more serious note I just finished Fargo season 5

[00:59:13] and that was absolutely fantastic it it was I think the best season of Fargo to date and the other

[00:59:21] seasons have also been really good and it's really powerful stuff and I recommend it to everyone

[00:59:28] but use caution when viewing because there are some really difficult subject matter that it covers

[00:59:32] all right Reynolds what are you watching these days um right now I'm doing a rewatch of Marvel's

[00:59:42] agents of shield um nice yeah such a suck up you're such a suck up on the Marvel channel come on

[00:59:50] I love it I love it it's good and then I'm going to this is kind of embarrassing but I'm gonna

[00:59:59] watch and or the Star Wars show that was on Disney Plus and then leading into the new season of

[01:00:07] Bad Batch which is a Star Wars animated series so um I guess I'm doing go out here I don't know why

[01:00:14] that's a little bit of rewatch show what was it no no that's my show yeah bad batches my show so yeah

[01:00:21] right now I already hear Kirk saying Jesus Christ Alex you always have to bring

[01:00:26] it back to Star Wars or Harry Potter because it's my favorite I want to understand why Bernaldi

[01:00:35] thought watching andor was an embarrassing because andor is brilliant I haven't seen it oh that's

[01:00:42] the embarrassment yeah okay so I'm trying to I want to do like a double feature andor and then bad

[01:00:48] batch got it the problem with and it's not a problem I should say the difficulty with Star Wars

[01:00:55] right now and similar to MCU there's just so much freaking content yeah you just don't know where to

[01:01:02] kind of you don't but if you watch it like it's just getting interesting I mean I have to say they're

[01:01:10] really they're really putting a lot of effort into all these shows and and it's fun and I think

[01:01:14] you're gonna like I'd ever liked the star of andor like I just didn't like his character like

[01:01:23] okay fine I mean he was great at um oh my god uh broke one yes I couldn't

[01:01:33] get a stupid name um he was great in Rogue One and I liked it but it was like okay he's gonna

[01:01:39] die so what's the problem you know what's the big deal but I gotta tell you it's shocked to crap

[01:01:45] out of me and they really did a great job of of doing some deep dives and making me want to

[01:01:51] care about everything and and they're you know it makes the political stuff in episode one a lot

[01:02:00] better so let's just leave it at that before Kirk gets mad at us because it's not on to you um

[01:02:06] you know uh right now I'm I'm watching um I'm on this World War 2 kick I watch band of brothers like

[01:02:14] five times a day and now I'm starting to watch the Pacific but then I'm watching Masters of the

[01:02:19] Air which is brand new oh yeah how is it and it's it's it's amazing and uh the cast is unreal

[01:02:25] it's such a great cast yeah the cast is crazy uh the other the other show the other movie I just

[01:02:30] watched was uh and this one of the stars from Masters of the Air was also in this it's uh

[01:02:37] it's about the 1936 rowing team in Washington it's uh oh the boat the boys in the boat yeah

[01:02:45] is that George clean you directed it yes and and I'm gonna tell you the movie was good it really

[01:02:51] was good I was I loved every second of it but uh PBS actually did a one hour special

[01:02:58] before this whole thing and it if you can you can watch it for free on on on YouTube

[01:03:07] it it doesn't even scratch the surface of how amazing these nine men were that decided to

[01:03:17] all work together and win the Olympics um during Hitler's Olympics and you know just watching all

[01:03:25] this all these war movies you're like these people were so lucky brave whatever you want to call

[01:03:34] and you know it makes my life it's like I gotta go do something because these people were just

[01:03:38] amazing and um you know I don't care who they are uh but that said um Penny want to tell people

[01:03:46] how they can get in touch with us sure if you want to reach us there's lots of ways you can reach out

[01:03:51] to us on the podcast to go Facebook page there's also lots of fun chats that happen on the podcast

[01:03:57] to go Facebook page about anything that you might imagine we get into side conversations

[01:04:03] it's good to bond with your fellow nerds you can email us at talkatpodcastica.com and of course

[01:04:10] you could catch us next week when we cover the finale of echo episode five entitled Maya

[01:04:17] absolutely and I can't wait to go watch it right after this and folks if you are looking for some

[01:04:22] other podcasts to listen to but you've got the uh Ted Lasso revisited we've got run for your

[01:04:27] lives uh they're doing some movies we got the uh walking dead rewatch which is taking a break to do

[01:04:35] living dead I think and from where doing our rewatch we just got our 50th episode

[01:04:41] congratulations yes um very excited I can't believe we actually got that far uh and then whenever

[01:04:51] you know Ryan Reynolds decides to release his movie we'll be back here and doing the

[01:04:58] rewatch or the the movie review which maybe Kirk and Renaldi and Penny he'll do or who knows

[01:05:06] will do it um but you know it's all there's a lot of good stuff going on plus you know

[01:05:11] we like you said the bad batch I know we don't cover it but there's a lot of other great podcasts

[01:05:17] out there that do that as well so you know the bottom line is it's cold out you might not want to go

[01:05:22] outside or whatever else you know snuggle up to one of our podcasts and if you have Ted Lasso it's

[01:05:27] always a good day so that said um thanks for listening to our podcast my name is Alex oh my name is

[01:05:34] Renaldi and I am Penny see you later bye bye

[01:06:04] you