Run For Your Lives Podcast Episode 159: Doctor Sleep

[00:00:00] You're listening to the Run For Your Lives Podcast. Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm Daphne. And I'm Pake. And this is the Run For Your Lives Podcast. This episode we are talking about these supernatural horror film Doctor Sleep, written and directed by Mike Flanagan, released November 8th, 2019.

[00:00:53] Yeah! Of course, screenplay written by Mike Flanagan. Original story written by Stephen King as Doctor Sleep. I know this is in your production notes coming up but it's the 2013 novel that was the sequel book to The Shining so this is an interesting one. We'll talk about

[00:01:15] it. I haven't read the books although I own both of them now. I own The Shining and Doctor Sleep and I think as soon as I'm done with the book that I'm on which I'm in the last

[00:01:22] like four or five chapters so I'm almost done then next thing I'm moving on to is I think I want to do that. I want to do The Shining and Doctor Sleep back to back to see some differences because I know there are some major differences because this

[00:01:35] film was made to more accurately also work as a sequel to The Shining which changed so much about that book already. Well, I debated after we decided to do this one I debated oh my gosh should we do The Shining first?

[00:01:52] I was thinking that too while watching this and taking notes so I was like if we would have already covered The Shining we could there's so many of these things could be callbacks and throwbacks we could talk about things but we haven't done that one yet

[00:02:03] so we definitely need to. We'll need to retroactively go back and do The Shining I think for sure. Yeah. And then it's more calling forward to like oh yeah and then Doctor Sleep did

[00:02:10] this which is a reference to this but we I'm sure we can talk about that then but yeah we should do The Shining for sure. Oh yeah and there are two of them because Stephen King did not like the film he did

[00:02:22] not like the changes that were in the film and the film was directed by Stanley Kubrick and Kubrick has a very unique way of storytelling. Yeah. That isn't for the faint of heart in many cases so you know I don't know I am

[00:02:41] I like the original but I also liked that the miniseries that they did stayed truer to the book. I have never even heard of that. Oh yeah. It's under the radar kind of thing.

[00:02:55] Well you know Stephen King had a ton of miniseries like it seems like like the stand and he had Rose Red was another miniseries Kingdom Hospital. I mean even it was a miniseries.

[00:03:11] Yeah there's a lot so yeah it's not it's not out of the realm of possibility with his works because he's had so many miniseries but yeah the redo was pretty good it was different but I liked it. I liked both of them for different reasons.

[00:03:37] So we're definitely going to have to cover them maybe as a double dip. It'd be interesting. Kind of like we did with it. I feel like we should. We got to do it. That can't be fun.

[00:03:50] It's just got to happen but I think you should read the book first. Yeah. I think you should read the shining first so we won't do it like next week. Like yeah it takes me a while to get through a book. I'm doing better.

[00:04:05] I'm going to 2024 one of my goals is to read more as far as like my goal unless I'm like out of town or working, traveling, doing something try to read a chapter or two a day to just have something that I'm always constantly reading or working on. Okay.

[00:04:25] If it takes me a number of months to get through a book it's still you know I'm working towards it. You're working towards it. Yeah I think you should be able to do that.

[00:04:36] You know you can pick away at it maybe some days you read more chapters and other days you don't get to read but it will all balance out in the end and that's okay.

[00:04:48] Yeah so yeah I think the next ones are going to be the shining and then Dr. Sleep back to back. So that might be all of the reading I get done in the year 2024 but I'm depending on how long those take.

[00:04:58] Unless I'm not jumping into it quite yet. Oh my goodness. Yeah it is a long yeah it's a very long book and I found myself because I read it after I found myself just getting caught up in the differences between the mini series

[00:05:19] and the book and I haven't revisited it since the new films have come out so I don't even know. I'm not going to go there that takes a significant amount of time. Oh yeah but I'm interested because I've seen the shining and Dr. Sleep numbers of times

[00:05:37] and so it's like I've already got stuff in my head and I know there are differences and so is it going to bother me trying to go back and read the books with those

[00:05:44] differences I don't know because also especially when I get to Dr. Sleep I want to see I don't know much about it but I'm sure as far as the true not members it's probably

[00:05:53] going to dive much further into Andy or whatever like their specific backgrounds will get even more about those characters and I'm curious. And I want to know about Rose's fate because again I haven't read the books but I understand like the overlook gets destroyed in the shining right?

[00:06:10] So they don't go back there and Dr. Sleep necessarily I wouldn't think so how do they change things. Again I'll find out when I get to those things. See the overlook in the book see there's so many differences in the mini series it blows up. Yeah.

[00:06:30] In the film Jack goes out to the hedge maze. Yeah because this movie to tie it back into what we're talking about it's been just tangent Sandy but that's okay yeah is Dr. Sleep is supposed to be more every direct

[00:06:44] sequel to the movie but also does pay more respect to the book so yeah that's why they go back to the overlook and Dr. Sleep in this movie is because it was just left standing as is at the end of the shining from 1980 from Kubrick.

[00:07:00] Yeah so it did follow along closely like it's still there. There were some things though once we get to that part of the story there were just some observations that I made about Dan going back.

[00:07:18] In the beginning when I was taking notes Danny was Dan as a kid and Dan was adult Danny. So I kind of say any time it was Roger Dale Floyd it was Danny and anytime that it was you and McGregor it was Dan. Yeah.

[00:07:34] It's the only way you know that's how I just kept it separate. It's like Dan and Danny that's how it goes. Well let's go ahead and just do a couple production notes. You've pretty much given them all but I will give a few things that I have.

[00:07:52] It was filmed in Atlanta Georgia with the outside of the overlook hotel being Timberline Lodge in Mount Hood, Oregon was based on the 2013 horror novel of the same name as you said. It had a budget of 45 to 55 million and grows 72.3 million at the box office.

[00:08:15] It was 152 minutes long for the theatrical release. Paik actually watched the director's cut which was about a half an hour longer. So throughout this conversation you may notice that he has some additional things that I didn't see.

[00:08:34] It's because we watched two different versions and it's actually cool because we can just bring up different things and I think that's fine. But Paik, bring us a synopsis. All right, years following the events of The Shining, a now adult Dan Torrance must

[00:08:53] protect a young girl with similar powers from a cult known as the true not who pray on children with powers to remain immortal. That is good. It's a good one. Or not really immortal. Who told you that? Did somebody tell you that? But at least live long.

[00:09:14] Live long. Be well. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, it's interesting. Grandpa Flick just seemed to look worse and worse and worse. Yeah, even when they were like feeding it seems like he's aging or dying faster the older he gets. Yeah. So it still eventually catches up with them.

[00:09:37] It just takes centuries and centuries and centuries versus like years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the way that Rose talked to him when he was dying, talking about all the things that he had seen, you really start to learn that, OK,

[00:09:52] he's really been alive a long time to have gone through all of that. But it isn't his story. The story that we're going to tell is through the eyes of Dan Torrance, the lead character played by Ewan McGregor. So we're going to dive into his story first.

[00:10:16] Yeah, that makes sense. Start with Danny into Dan. Yeah. So where we really first see him is Danny Torrance, a young boy, still quite haunted from his experience at the Overlook Hotel. Again, we'll circle back and cover the shining another time.

[00:10:36] So hopefully anybody who's watching this had seen the shining before. I don't know if it's necessarily 100 percent have to, but it really helps to get a lot of background for sure. Yeah. But yeah, but still definitely haunted by these experiences

[00:10:52] and, you know, Flanagan's not going to let us go without another old lady in the bathtub scene for some reason. I don't know why, but you know what? Leave it out. I think he was so stoked to be able to show that.

[00:11:05] You know, he was sitting there working on the screenplay thinking, I'm going to show a lady in a bathtub. Yeah, there's so many things like, you know, he's like a huge fan of the shining going like, I get to recreate this and this and this.

[00:11:18] He was so excited. You know, he put in a lot of work and effort when it came to the scenes and the sets. It was like painstakingly how he put things together. He got blueprints from Stanley Kubrick, his estate, and.

[00:11:40] The way he wrote it back in and keeping the storyline connected to the 1980 film. It's I think it's it's kind of like an homage to Stanley Kubrick and what he did with it with the shining is, you know, he got those blueprints

[00:12:00] and he made sure that everything lined up. Here's the hotel. It looks the same. Yeah, did a great job with it too, for sure. Yeah, because some of the footage that they use was from the shining.

[00:12:14] But then there was also these new scenes blended in and you could see that it was very consistent. And I liked that. I appreciate that a lot. Yeah, you would get like the flash, like actual scenes from the shining.

[00:12:29] But then it would cut to like the same characters, but it's Alex Esso and Henry Thomas and Roger Dale Floyd instead. And you're like, it's really cool. Yeah. Roger Dale Floyd. OK, you know that we love him on this podcast. He was Nathan Garrity in Greenland.

[00:12:45] Plus he played the young Elton in The Walking Dead World Beyond in a fantastic episode of that show. And he made a small little cameo in the latest season of Stranger Things as well, yes, a fun part of Susie's ginormous family.

[00:13:04] So you know that we are big fans of him and the work that he has done so far in his very short career. So it's great to see him in this. I forgot he was in this.

[00:13:17] Also forgot we got that little bit of Violet McGraw at the beginning, which we just saw her not long ago. Yeah. Yeah, we're just tangent everywhere, but that's fine. We'll eventually get to Dan. Yeah, but no, because I have the same thoughts.

[00:13:36] I mean, we'll talk about casting and stuff while we're out. That's a little tangent to go off because you have Violet McGraw coming a lot up a lot on both of my podcasts right now. But yeah, she's playing the character at the beginning of the movie named Violet,

[00:13:49] yes, which is funny, because I also just watched there's a new Christmas movie from this last year called A Christmas Mystery, a super kid friendly child, you know, it's like on Paramount or something I don't remember her HBO.

[00:14:04] Yeah, it's Oscar Nunez and Drew Powell and it's very kid friendly. It's just something that I could throw on on the background while wrapping presents and stuff at Christmas. And so she was in that and she also plays a character named Violet.

[00:14:15] And I'm like, man, it's got to be easy to get into those roles. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So as you said, we've got all these random tangents that we've been on so far. However, our listeners are used to it. Let's bring it all back and we, you know,

[00:14:35] Dan, we're going to bring it back. Yeah, let's bring it back. Well, it's funny because my next note is just more casting stuff anyway. Oh, OK. This is because we talked about Flanagan, so I might as well get it out of the way. OK, all right.

[00:14:46] Just especially those who know me from listening to like Strange Indeed. No, I a huge Flanagan fan and then we've covered a number of movies here now. So yeah, it's just good to see the Flammily, the Flanagan Flanniverse cast,

[00:15:01] you know, Barry, one of Rose's group, one of the the not Robert Longstreet, who yes, I know me and Rima are always very excited to see him in a role in a show. And then, yeah, Carl Lumbly played Dick Holler in this movie,

[00:15:15] which I mean House of Usher just recently. Yeah. As August Dupin, so it was great to see him come back. You know, he was brought back for House of Usher after this movie alongside, yeah, Abra herself, Kylie Curran, which was really cool to see her.

[00:15:33] Yeah, and Bruce Greenwood. Yep. We didn't get to see much of Robert Longstreet for a little bit. And Henry Thomas. Yeah. Yeah. So. I think Mike Flanagan probably thinks this. Why do I need to go out and work with new people when I've got people

[00:15:55] I know can fit these roles? And it's easy for me. I've built this relationship with them, and I know they're going to fit what I'm doing. And so he probably was writing the screenplay when he was working on it

[00:16:08] because someone else wrote it first and then he redid it. Yeah. He probably was thinking, OK, well, this will be a great role for Henry Thomas. And oh, I can get Alex Esso in to play this role. You know, she was in Haunting of Hill. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:24] He he has like a nice well of actors and actresses to to dip into for his projects. Even Jacob Tremblay, who played Bradley Trevor, the baseball boy in this movie, not his first rodeo with Mike Flanagan.

[00:16:36] Remember, we covered before I wake back in the day when he was a little guy. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Flanagan, he has his group of people that he likes to work with. He also integrates other actors into the to the film or the series

[00:16:55] that maybe he hasn't worked with before. But it always comes together in this beautiful way, even if it's a terrifying movie like Doctor Sleep. Yeah. I'm sure there's more casting stuff that will pop up. But for now, we covered most of it. Yeah. I just think are interesting.

[00:17:15] So yeah, go back here. Yeah. Where were we at? Danny traumatized. You know, hasn't talked, hasn't spoken with his mother since the events and it's, you know, these ghosts have followed him. And so he's really traumatized by that.

[00:17:31] A lot of these spirits have, well, the overlooks been closed down. They've left there. But so they're starving or hungry in the last connection they had to assign to feed on with him. So they have haunted haunted him and hunted him down.

[00:17:45] And he's having to deal with that. So but along with the bad also is the good because he also has kind of this spirit, this essence of Dick Holler and there as well, the visit with him and he'll speak with him,

[00:18:01] which then he learns that little trick from Holler and about the box. He tells him, you know, building the box in his mind where he can trap the dark spirits inside, lock them away. And he takes to that trick very quickly and easily.

[00:18:12] He I love he just goes and takes care of the old woman. He's like, OK, sounds like a plan locks her up and then starts talking to his mother. He's like, I'm good now. All right. I've got to have a way to cope. Yeah.

[00:18:23] Yeah. He needed a coping mechanism. He didn't have one. He was lost because he didn't really get to interact with Dick enough to understand things. He needed more time with him. You know, this shine was a new thing in his life.

[00:18:45] And he had no mentor to to work with him. He only had just those few interactions with Dick to start to get what was happening. And he definitely didn't have a supportive father. No, yeah. So that's that's a lot for the young Danny, but then we jump forward

[00:19:06] and get adult Dan Torrance live in life a little rougher. So lots of drugs and hookups and blackout drinking, aggression, violence, frustration, all of these things where we see him in really a low, low, low point. Waking up from a blackout leaving the woman he was with

[00:19:28] passed out in her own vomit there, taking her money with her little toddler child sitting next to her. And we had, you know, Dick Hollerin appears and tries to steer him away from that, telling him, this isn't you.

[00:19:42] You could you're better than this, but he does it anyway, which I like that little moment where you see him try to like collect this moment and throw it in a box with the rest of the ghosts with the monsters and Hollerin says,

[00:19:56] you can put ghosts from the overlook in the boxes, but not the memories. You know, you're not memories. Those are the real ghosts that we carry with us as he's trying to get rid of this moment. And he's like, no, your life choices.

[00:20:08] You can't really hide from and lock away. No, you definitely can. I looked at this scene very much like Dick is an angel on his shoulder and alcohol is the devil like his addiction is the devil and it pulls that him in two different directions.

[00:20:28] Also, we get to see that he's got his dad's alcoholism habit, which when you see him as a kid and then you see his father in the shining. That's not what you want to see for him. But that's the reality of the life that he is living.

[00:20:49] Part of it, I think is brought on by the fact that he later reveals that when his mom was dying, he started to see the ghosts and the whole process of that and knowing his mom was dying really did a number on him

[00:21:07] in addition to his childhood trauma. Yeah. So he's trying to escape from it, run away from it as he even tells to Billy Freeman. You know, I'm just running for myself, which I like he's like, well, wherever you go, you're there.

[00:21:20] So it's a terrible spot to be in to try to run away from yourself. But yeah, it's where he does. He winds up in New Hampshire in Fraser, New Hampshire, just just trying to move to something different, always moving.

[00:21:33] But he lands here and that's where he meets Billy, who is the best person, just the best. He has this understanding of Dan clearly, like he's been through some trauma or is dealt with his own demons

[00:21:49] as well. So he understands who he is, at least to a point, maybe not all the shining and all that stuff. But but the alcoholism, the the addiction, the the self loathing, all of these things. Yeah, he sees he sees something in Dan

[00:22:03] and reaches out and hooks him up with lodging and work and friendship even. He becomes a support system for him. And he also builds more of a support system, like we don't really get to meet the other people that are in the AA group

[00:22:20] with him, but you get the sense that there's a camaraderie there. Yeah, and there's a support system. And this is something that I don't think Dan has really had. And so Billy represents, I think, the potential for life. For the good life, for a good, happy, productive life

[00:22:44] that Dan has never really had. And as luck, you know, as luck would have it, he meets him in that, what, a teeny town? Yeah, the little miniature square in the square. I do love those. She's really cool.

[00:23:02] Yeah, they're so they're so cool when they mirror everything so closely. And I loved that he connected with him right away. It's an interesting visual because you're looking at these buildings and then the actual buildings are behind them.

[00:23:20] But it's almost this like visual for the thought of the movie itself is as you know, these little little worlds, little boxes inside the mind that mirror the things on the outside and little filing cabinets. Yeah, that too. It was interesting. Yeah.

[00:23:38] But yeah, so he's he's got some of these things from Billy. And then, of course, we know a part of Dan's shine is this really strong connection to the dead. And because of that connection, he has it leads him to realizing or finding out the reality of

[00:23:56] the woman he left behind before he moved. And he's very haunted by that and goes straight to Billy for help in this moment. And that's where. Is he again, because Billy is just the best human being on the planet

[00:24:10] when when Dan asks for that help, he gives it to him. He takes into a led by Roderick Usher and me, Dr. John. Yeah, Roderick. I should be saying any self help or support groups for anything. Roderick Usher with a real New England accent. It was interesting.

[00:24:34] Oh, man. Yeah. But that helps. And then, of course, this Dr. John here, this character. Dan really intrigues him with the shine. Like one of the first things he says to him at the first meeting is like, oh, yeah, you're you're watched that you lost. It's it's here.

[00:24:49] While you're dealing with this patient with this thing and it's like, how the hell do you know that? Because he does. But he has this connection with people. So because of that, John gives him this job as an orderly at the hospice.

[00:25:05] And I love that because that's what leads to some of the best scenes. That is Dr. Sleep where the film gets its movie or film gets its title where Dan gets his moniker there as Dr. Sleep. It's where the name comes from.

[00:25:22] There's something very special about Asriel, the cat as well. Definitely get into. But I really like the Easter egg that we kind of got with the scene where Dan is meeting with Dr. John. That room looked eerily familiar to the room

[00:25:41] where Jack Torrance is meeting with the overlook folks. And that's on purpose. Like it was meant to be that way. But I love that cat like that cat. She's just an adorable. Such a beautiful cat.

[00:25:59] I don't know if I'd ever want to see the cat sitting at the end of the bed because that's probably a terrible idea. Doesn't mean anything good for me. But no, no, but this is a cute cat. You know, it's the name.

[00:26:12] Asriel is Asriel is the Angel of Death. Yeah. And so but they based as a on this cat named Oscar who lives at a nursing facility in Rhode Island. And Oscar seems to be able to do this, predict who is going to be, you know, passing away

[00:26:36] and he'll sit or sleep on their beds for a few hours before they die. And I guess he's been present for over a hundred patient deaths according to a medical journal in New England. And because of the time jump,

[00:26:52] as he was played by two different cats, one young and one older. But neither one of them are very good at sitting still. Yeah. That's funny. Mike Flanagan had a nickname for Asi because he wasn't quite as reliable in the scene. So he called him as whole

[00:27:17] during the production and bonkers the death cat in post production. That's funny. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but this doctor sleep idea. So aside from the cat, which the cat's kind of part of it, but but Dan finds himself as even the patients referring to him as a doctor

[00:27:35] and knowing his house calls mean a certain thing. He finds himself having this ability to calm the dying, make their passing more peaceful and pleasant. And as we even see with Charlie, the second person we see him with,

[00:27:52] it's it's such a powerful scene because it's, you know, he walks in and you know, Charlie looks over and sees him sitting there and he knows what that means. He's about to die. And at first he's kind of scared, but then Dan's able to like experience

[00:28:06] memories with him with it, you know, in very hyperreal ways where here's what I'm seeing. Let me like like help you see it to do you smell that you taste that you see that feel that and it's just very much bringing these, you know,

[00:28:18] life flashing before your eyes kind of thing that gives the patient the peace and closure and positivity and things that they need in those final moments. And he he really finds his calling in that. Yeah, he's like a spirit guide, I think, or some sort of, you know,

[00:28:37] he's like holding your hand as you walk through the process. Yeah. And you just feel that there is comfort as you are facing something that might be, you know, that is scary and not you don't really understand it to have someone that just

[00:28:54] sits there and kind of empathizes with you and just talks with you and makes you comfortable. I think that has to be somewhat, you know, calming to the situation. Like, you know, I can't imagine. Yeah. And luckily for him, I guess the patients seem to enjoy

[00:29:18] Dan, even when they know who he is, what he is, you know, like it could be worse instead of doctor sleep, he could have easily, you know, earned the nickname Doctor Death or something as well. Like it could have been darker.

[00:29:31] But but I think because of like I said, this kind of and as you were talking about that he kind of is that guide in that peaceful where it's it's not so scary because it's like, well, there's nothing we can do about it. Your time has come.

[00:29:43] That's it. But at least. Yeah. At least I'm here because he's here. Because he's here. I know that it's going to be as pleasant and peaceful and good as it could possibly be. Yeah, definitely.

[00:29:55] I like to that they call him Doctor Sleep and his nickname as a child was Doc. So it kind of to me, you know, there's that connection there. I just felt good knowing that. Dan has. Just seemed to have found his footing in life.

[00:30:19] And over the next eight years, he you can see a difference in him between when he first showed up in town to eight years later, where he's just very comfortable and he sits you know with Charlie and all of these. You know, he's he's got a calm life.

[00:30:37] He settled in and this is a place he can call home. Yeah, that, you know, he was constantly moving and running and you see the change. I said it's been eight years. He's still in Frasier, so it seems like he's happily made New Hampshire his home.

[00:30:53] This is yeah. This is a place I like that the way that this chapter, which I think this is something different again, because you hinted this. I have the director's cut because I own that. And so I've watched it several times. So it's really all I know.

[00:31:10] So I don't know what the differences are. But I think with a theatrical version that you watch, you don't get like like title cards breaking the movie up into chapters. No, see, I do. So there's six chapters.

[00:31:22] There's like a cool title card with the name chapter and stuff. I knew about the title cards. Yes. So the one with its chapter three, the little spy, but the way that it opens is with you see the Overlook Hotel with the the the glass of Jack sitting

[00:31:45] on the bar and then it, you know, which I think is in the theatrical version as well, but it's right after the title card. But it opens seeing the drink and then it kind of fades into the current day meeting Dan is getting his chip.

[00:32:00] And it's a really cool opening because you're seeing here's where he comes from. That's the trauma. That's his past. And now look where he is, the tremendous progress he's made his own health where, you know, he could still garner all this hatred and everything for his father.

[00:32:17] But instead you've seen he's kind of built this interesting kind of understanding and forgiveness of his father in that moment. I was saying like, yeah, he did terrible things. He did this, but it's like, you know, years and years ago when I,

[00:32:31] you know, before he died, he was standing in the same spot. He was trying and maybe he failed, but like, I'm glad that I can be what he never was able to be. And I understand how hard it is.

[00:32:43] So I can't fault him for failing because I almost did to. Right. And I thought that was really powerful. I think so. I think you're right. I think there are different points in this movie where I feel like he's being tested where it could go either way.

[00:33:00] And yet he makes the right decision. Whereas in the beginning, we saw him make that decision about leaving the woman with no money, like taking her money. And I like that he that we get to see that because we're watching

[00:33:18] him become the man he really wants to be and not the man that he was at the beginning. Yeah. And then there's a lot of movie that I'm skipping over, but you know, there's a lot of story that we will get to with

[00:33:35] with the true knot and Rose the Hat and Abra and things that tie back into this. But if there's one complaint, because even in the director's cut, there's one little complaint that I have is I wish we would have got better understanding or explanation of

[00:33:52] the connection between Dan and Abra. Why did she choose him to be writing on his blackboard? Where did that come from? Yeah. Why did that start? Yeah. I'm very curious about that. But maybe it's explained in the book. Maybe that might be something that's explained in the book.

[00:34:09] But there is this kind of connection. It's very small, very innocent, very small where it's just a little hi, hello, good morning, go to school. You know, like it's very so they know enough about each other, but it's very just kind of, hey, we're two random

[00:34:22] people that have this ability. So like we connect with it in like a fun little way that means not much of anything. However, we'll talk about Bradley Trevor, the character Jacob Trumblay. We will talk more about that later, but it's a horrific death.

[00:34:38] And Abra is tuned into it the whole time, saying what's happening. She feels his pain, his fear. Rose can also sense that she's there. Uh, but this response that she has to this is so big that even Dan, who's connected to her in this small

[00:34:53] way, you know, through these little messages on the chalkboard stuff, he's connected to her response in a big way with this, you know, the most chilling of messages coming through on this chalkboard or the violent crack. Uh, with the return of Red Rum. Yeah.

[00:35:11] Murder, um, which it's just a me thing because of my grammar. I try to try to be better about it, but I can't, but it's like it was like, it bothers me just the tiniest bit that when he goes and writes who it's like, put the question mark.

[00:35:27] Why didn't you put a question mark after? It's a question. Don't worry about that. Just a me thing. But yeah. And then she responds with baseball boy, which at that time doesn't mean much, not a lot to go on at all, but it's something. No.

[00:35:43] For her to witness that, I mean, horrifying. Because you really didn't understand how truly horrifying this situation. It could end up happening to her like this. I don't think she fully understood the potential for her own demise based on being there because it was incredibly dangerous. Yeah.

[00:36:11] For her to be there. Um, but then we'll talk again, like I said more about Abra and her things, but through all of this, she ends up coming and visiting Dan in person to talk about this. She, she wants to kind of recruit him in and talk.

[00:36:27] She's looking for help. And I thought as far as like, you know, Dan's not necessarily the best to ask when it comes to choices he would make to do the right thing. Yeah. At least the person we saw beginning a lot of

[00:36:40] time has passed, it's been eight years since then and he is becoming a better person, which I thought was really cool mirrors what he says to Dr. John when John asked him, do you go to church? And he says, does it matter?

[00:36:50] He's like, our faith isn't what makes us better people. Our actions is what makes us better people. And so that becomes mirrored here. Yeah. It becomes mirrored here with her asking, you know, isn't this what we should do? And it's kind of this, well, it's time to like,

[00:37:04] you know, to pay up for the words that you said, Dan, it's like actions make us the better people. So it's time to make out, you know, it's time for those actions. But he still doesn't want to. He just tells her to drop it mainly for

[00:37:19] her own safety. Don't let these people know about you. Stop using your shine. Don't just shut yourself off. Shut your light off from the world so that nobody can dim it. You know, nobody can take it. Take it from you. Nobody can attack you for it.

[00:37:32] Of course, it's too late for that. They are already on her scent. They yeah, for sure. They're going after her, which then leads to another visit, one last visit from Dick Holler and who tells Dan these empty devils as he calls them, which is another one

[00:37:50] of the chapter titles, which I love the true not that they have been around forever. They are really just truly evil, the things that they do and that they have Abra since that the Halloween is aware of that. And he says, you know, much like

[00:38:08] fate drew the two of them together. Dan kind of owes fate a favor of protecting Abra now it's his turn. Which I love that that conversation says this is my last dream. This is the last time we're really going to talk, but he ends that

[00:38:22] conversation with making sure that Dan knows how proud he is of the person he's grown and become, which again, just I could gush about this movie with like a lot of those things. It's it's reason why it's definitely one of my favorites is there's so much heart.

[00:38:36] It's Flanagan. So what do you expect? Did you notice that because I knew about the chapters. I didn't have the chapter cards, but I knew about the chapters. Did you did empty devils? Did that sound familiar to you? I mean, other than that's just

[00:38:53] what the holler in refers to them as later. It is actually a book by Scott Landon. OK, OK. Yeah. Lacey's story. Yeah. Yeah. There are so many Easter eggs. I mean, there are so many little things because you know that Flanagan is not going to do

[00:39:12] this halfway, especially when he had to. He really had to fight hard to do this because after that adaptation that Kubrick did. Yeah, King did wasn't real big on adaptations. Right. So if there's anyone, Stephen King is going to trust it's my it's my friend. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:40] Yeah. So he did trust him to do it. So again, skipping through some stuff, but we circle back because we're going through characters. Dan going back to Greatest Human on Earth, Billy and managing to talk him into going with him, convincing him that, you know, Abra gave him

[00:39:57] this location. And if we're going to fight back, we need to be able to have, you know, a step ahead of the true not ahead of these people. And we need to make sure that this is where that body is also to give closure to the family

[00:40:11] of the boy. But then we can get the mitt. Abra can connect that to track them and know where they are. And it's it's crazy that, you know, like Billy really is the best friend because it's like you don't hear their conversations.

[00:40:24] He's like, I've got a lot of stuff to tell you, but you just know there is a ton of crazy sounding shit about to come out of Dan's mouth. And Billy is still there for the right after. Yeah, I wish we could have gotten

[00:40:35] that conversation because you know based on Dan telling him, I need you to listen. I need you to trust me. Yeah. You know that it's going to be off the rails. Yeah. I love like when they're in the car and Billy's like, I don't know if I

[00:40:49] hope that you're wrong or right. He's like either my friend is completely nuts off his rocker imagining. Yeah. Imaginary killers of imaginary kids and all of this like that is like, but at least I can deal with that if you're crazy because if you're right

[00:41:05] that he was that's much worse. Yeah, it is. It's I mean, it's unthinkable if if you lay that out in front of you. That is unthinkable. That is. I mean, a rag tag group of people going around the country, murdering children and sucking their souls out.

[00:41:26] I mean, because that's kind of I mean, it's they're showing but it to me, it's more than that, you know, the way that they do it. Their life essence is what it is. Yeah, it's it's horrible. And we'll talk about it when we do talk about Bradley

[00:41:42] watching that because watching that scene, that to me is what it looked like. Watching a soul get sucked out. Yeah. So yeah, he's I don't know if I want you to be wrong or right. And it turns out, yeah, Dan is very right and it's very bad.

[00:42:00] I like the Abra and Dan dynamic. I thought the two of them were incredible together. I need more you and McGregor in Flanagan stuff. Why? Yeah. Turns. Come on. Yeah. But yeah, she just like pops in to talk with him. She's got this

[00:42:17] like it's not just talking with him in his head, but she can like project and be seen by whoever needs to see her. At least other people with shine can see her because Billy can't. But. Yeah, maybe pushing into his mind was the best idea.

[00:42:33] I don't know about that. But you know, not a good idea. Right, which we've talked about, Billy, I'm just going to cast in Cliff Curtis just love him. He's great. Which speaking of push, he was in a movie called Push. That's really good. Very little

[00:42:49] known movie. But yeah. Anyway. But yeah, then. Man, a lot. They get it. They go and meet with Abra. And there's a lot that happens. But talk about that because I think it's more Abra centric, really. But but she definitely wants she winds up taken

[00:43:09] by the true not specifically Crow Daddy, the crow. Crow Daddy. That is quite a name. And she's been drugged so she's not really able to reach out too well. But then Dan remembers, you know, it's like this like radio wave kind of thing where instead of trying

[00:43:30] to reach out to her, just kind of listen in for her and tune her in with this connection they have. So he listens in and he's probably using his shine more than he ever has in his life. Because most of his life he's even

[00:43:43] tried to like deny it or hide it or push it away because of the trauma it's caused him. So. Since he was a child, so like this is probably the absolute most he has ever tapped into it. Yeah, which also makes him vulnerable if you think

[00:43:58] about it because he's telling her not to use her gift. To keep her safe. It's the same thing with him like him. If he's you know. Out out there opening himself up and using his shine to be able to find her. That makes that puts him on the

[00:44:21] radar. Yeah, a little bit. Yes, he's trying a little magic trick of his own. He loves to do the magic tricks and that's his turn. Which is really interesting because he basically possesses Abra takes kind of over her body and does that in order

[00:44:39] to kind of get the best of Crow. Talk with him, make sure it starts really is just let me see where you are, where you headed. But then he kind of comes up with a quick little backup plan where he takes this opportunity

[00:44:51] given to him to crash the van into a tree. I mean, Abra's double locked in and so Crow is going to go flying. And and damn, Abra is cold once Abra is back in her body and like she gets out and she's kneeling there besides this dying

[00:45:10] Crow Daddy and then just says to him, I hope that hurts. Yes, a lot. It must have been painful if you look at what happened, what happens to them. Yeah, they just basically disintegrate. Yeah. So of course Rose is furious as after that she is the only

[00:45:33] one left for at least her sect. There's more. I've always wondered. Since this came out, it's like does Stephen King ever plan on writing a third book following? Abra or I do wonder about that. I wonder because we are left open, you know, Rose says that

[00:45:52] she's not the last. So I don't know. It's interesting. I don't know. I don't know if I don't know if he has any plans to write another book. He's still very active writing books, but it took a long time for him to write this one. So yeah,

[00:46:12] I don't know if it's in the cards. But yes, so Rose is the only one left and endlessly pursuing them. So I remember Dan had told Abra earlier about this evil place that feeds on the shine like the knot does. So obviously if Rose is following

[00:46:31] them, that's the place to go. Let's go back to Colorado, back to the source of all of Dan's trauma and pain and fear. The Overlook Hotel. Chills. Who can forget that? Really? Who can forget that? That honestly, the music just pierces into your soul when you

[00:46:54] hear. I know. I remember. I saw this movie in theaters probably opening night. Yeah, I don't know for sure, but knowing me. That's really the only time I go is if there's a movie I really want to see. I only go to the theater,

[00:47:07] maybe 10 to 15 times a year, Max, probably less, probably more closer between five and 10. There's just like, you know, just certain movies that I want to see. But this was one of them. And if I go to the theater, it's usually opening night. Well, this this movie came out

[00:47:26] before I even knew you like because I didn't really we didn't get to know each other until like that spring. And this was like, no, this came out in November. Right. So yeah, I didn't even know you then. But yeah, I remember. So most likely opening night

[00:47:44] being in the theater because the movie starts with that music theme. And then later on, yeah, when they're driving up to the overlook or they're, you know, leaving the gas station heading that way and that music hits again, like literal goose bumps in the theater.

[00:47:59] Like you could probably see me like literally just going, who is getting excited? Oh, it's so good. It really takes you to that place, to that zone. Yeah. You're in it once you hear that music because it really is so powerful and it just overtakes you.

[00:48:17] You're basically, oh my god, I'm here. It's real. We're doing this. Yeah. So good. And especially when they get there and Abra stays out in the cars is I don't need you. You know, you don't need to be in there any more than absolutely necessary.

[00:48:34] And when she asks you, you're not going to stay out here and wait with me. And he says, I have to go wake it up. She's again, the chills. You know what really got me is I just remember in the shining, the overlook inside just felt so big

[00:48:53] and it didn't feel as big this time. And I don't think it's because Flanagan didn't build the sets the right way, because we've already talked about it. I think it's that we see a lot of the overlook from Danny's perspective as a child

[00:49:08] and as an adult, it is going to be smaller. Yeah, because he sees it differently than he did as a child. Right. And then all of the life that was in it, even if it was bad stuff, the evil but it's all gone. It's all dead inside.

[00:49:23] There's nothing there. So it is just a shell. It hasn't been able to feed. Well, and a lot of the ghosts are locked up. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, you can just imagine he's walking the halls and the lights are coming back on and he's seeing things that

[00:49:42] he hasn't seen since he was a kid. It's just like all of the nightmares that are faced walking back into this place. You know, it houses all of the worst things that could terrify him. Ghosts, madness, evil, furries, all of it that were there, you know, I

[00:50:02] thought it was incredibly powerful when he walked back into the apartment that he shared with his parents. Yeah, all those like details. Yeah. Bring this over, they overlook back to life. There were yeah, the hole in the door. You know, there was Johnny. Now here's Danny.

[00:50:20] Yeah. It's a cool visual for sure when he looks through that little hole in the door. Yeah. And he also read from on the door like nothing has changed. It's like time stood still and everything is really as they left it. And then the gold room

[00:50:43] is the same as the day that they left that place. It's all lit up and it looks immaculate, no dust, no mold. It's kind of like the hotel is already. That magic, the effect, the luring in is starting to take place. He's been there

[00:51:00] long enough now where this looks beautiful and immaculate again. The single, you know, glass sitting on the bar that Jack Daniels whiskey being poured in the bartender. My good dear close personal best friend, Henry Thomas, with his best Nicholson look. It was so good.

[00:51:21] It's funny because when I was taking notes at first, I know his name is Lloyd, but I kept calling him Grady because that was the name of the guy in the shining was Grady. Yeah, which I wonder why they went with the name Lloyd. And then I thought.

[00:51:37] It has to be an homage to Danny Lloyd, the child who is now a full grown man who played the character who played young Danny Torrance in the movie. I think it might be a nod to him. Well, I think you're right. And Danny Lloyd had a cameo.

[00:51:53] Yes, he did. He's absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I've got a note about that for sure. Yeah, he did. That was kind of cool. I love when they try to pull people back in. They did try to get Jack Nicholson or they wanted to, but he's

[00:52:09] been retired and he's really not taking. Yeah, he's fully like in the reading a book outside and good for him. Yeah. But I will say Henry Thomas. Did an incredible job to the point that again, when I saw this in theaters, I didn't even recognize

[00:52:27] him at first. Yeah, it took me. It was like from the side, especially you don't even recognize him. Yeah, it was so cool. But. But yeah, he's just looks so good. He's putting that on. But they're having this conversation, which I like that Dan keeps going

[00:52:46] back to saying like, oh, you know, it's like, I'm sorry, this place is kind of dead. You know, it'll liven up. It'll get busy. And Dan is like, oh yeah, it will. Yeah. People are coming. He's like, you know, rose the hats

[00:52:55] on her way. And then when she gets here, you know, I'm going to have to unleash a couple more partygoers on her. But the conversation is really interesting between them. I don't know how much you got. I think this is one of the big director's cut differences

[00:53:10] is there's a lot more conversation between them at the bar and then even after. And it starts really well as far as Dan is able to say a lot of things he needed to say. There's it's very cathartic, get a lot of things off his chest, but

[00:53:24] it's not in a hateful or angry way. It's just, you know, after you know, you died, me and mom moved to Florida because we never wanted to see snow again. And you know, there's and there's like, you know, and he's saying, you know, this and

[00:53:37] he's talking about I couldn't even look her in the eyes. I think you mentioned all that stuff is in there. And then it starts getting more sinister. You can see the overlook is starting to twist. Good thing. Because Lloyd, the bartender, starts to change a little bit

[00:53:54] going from I don't know what you're talking about here's a to really pushing this drink on Dan and it's the medicine. It's what you take to forget all of these things. And it kind of ends with this. Aren't you going to take your medicine, Dan?

[00:54:07] Aren't you going to take your medicine? And he says, no, I'm not going to. And he acts in rage, knocks the glass over and spills it on him, which then leads to another scene that I don't think you have in theatrical, where they're in the bathroom

[00:54:20] and Lloyd, the bartender, is kind of cleaning him up. And I'm sorry, I lost. And then they start this whole conversation about Abra where it's kind of the mask has come down. He's like, OK, I know what's going on. Here's the deal. And it's this.

[00:54:37] You know, maybe it's good for the theatrical version, especially that they leave this out because it tries to give you maybe this little twinge of doubt that maybe Dan's not going to do the right thing. When you know he is. Yeah. But it's but this was a jack.

[00:54:53] Lloyd, the bartender, whatever, you know, is is kind of leading him in this other is that sinister thing of, well, you know. Why are you fighting the way that things are? Right. Why just let things play out in their natural order. Right. He goes, you know, you

[00:55:08] got, you know, if Rose is on her way, he's like, well, then just bring the girl inside and then let things happen that the way that they're naturally going to happen. Just accept the things that you can't change. And he's trying to convince Dan

[00:55:22] to just let things happen. Stop, you know, putting your neck on the line for this girl that you barely know. Just. Just leave it alone. And you say I'm like trying to convince him of that. But then after that scene, Dan goes right back out to the car

[00:55:36] and gets Abra and things play out. So obviously he got that closure with his father, but he knows that's not his father anymore. And he's like, right. Yeah, I'm not listening to you. I'm not listening. I'm not giving into this place. Well, he still kind of does,

[00:55:51] but it's not not fully his fault. Yeah. I think that this was a big test for him with his addiction because there's this underlying theme in this whole movie about addiction. Very much how Dan is addicted to booze and has kicked this addiction because there's a scene earlier

[00:56:13] on when he's trying to find Abra and he almost takes a drink. Yeah, and he doesn't. And this is another indication of that. And at one point, Lloyd even says to him, the mind is a blackboard and this is the eraser. And so the hotel sucks

[00:56:39] the shine out of him. And I think if he takes that drink, it just lowers the guard for them to be able to get in there and and make more of a claim on him because he's so incredibly strong. Yeah. Yeah, these these choices

[00:56:55] again, because if he would have been drinking at that moment, he probably would have been dulled and wouldn't have heard Abra's quieter voice in that car that there's yeah, those things that because he's been able to be sober, he's opened himself up to a lot

[00:57:11] more of this and it becomes very important for him in this movie to do the things he needs to do. Yeah. I felt like he was tested so many times and he came through it making the right decisions whereas he's he had again made these made the wrong

[00:57:31] decisions initially when we first meet him to where he is now where he's making the right decisions. It's a metamorphosis really from A to B and I appreciate the journey that we went on with him to get him to this point where he wants to do the right

[00:57:53] thing for her. So he does have the face off with Rose that again, I'm skipping over now a lot of really good stuff. But I like like focusing a lot more on Dan's growth. But yeah, after Rose is taken care of by the overlooked spirits that he's released.

[00:58:13] Well, she's gone, but the spirit still needs someone to play with forever and ever and ever come and play with us, Danny. And the hotel does get into Dan the way that it did his father. However, like you mentioned, he is stronger. He's stronger than

[00:58:33] his father ever was. And Abra, even more so when he does find her that the strength between the two of them and especially her, it's enough to that they can reach in and pull out the real Dan that's still there. Yeah, which which gives

[00:58:47] Abra that ability to escape and get out. And of course, we learned then that Dan had this backup plan the whole time with the boiler that's going to blow and set the whole place on fire, finally burn it to the ground, cleanse it with fire. As Abra says,

[00:59:01] it was like purifying, you know, it ties in really nicely with the miniseries. They're just little pieces and I'm thinking, oh, yeah, I I see what you did there and I get it and good job. Yeah, and even it's not the last time we see Dan

[00:59:22] in the movie, but it's the last time we see Dan alive in the movie. Is this moment again, I talked about, you know, this this story that he tells of not, you know, of his mom not being able to look him in the eyes because

[00:59:34] they're his father's eyes. And then as she's dying because of his abilities and his shine, he can't look at her. And how that's something that has always haunted him. And so now in his last minutes, their eyes are finally meeting there in that moment

[00:59:50] and that look can just linger there and they can really see each other and. Flanigan, you know, Flanigan always does this to us, doesn't he? He knows how to reach inside your chest and rip your heart out. Yeah. And yeah, so that's the last time

[01:00:10] we really see him alive. And that's really all I have for him because yeah, we'll talk about when we see him again. But I think it really ties in more to to Abra there. Yeah, definitely. So who are we going to talk about next?

[01:00:29] Yeah, if you have nothing else about Dan Torrance, then yeah, we've really covered I think everything that I had about Dan Torrance. I did. There is something really interesting though about if you think age wise and I think now is a good time to bring it up.

[01:00:51] So you and McGregor is about two years older than Danny Lloyd who played Danny Torrance. So I mean, that's pretty good. Yeah. Lining up. He's also five years older than Jack Nicholson was when he played Jack Torrance. Yeah, that's wild. Isn't it? I mean, and Danny Lloyd

[01:01:17] really hasn't acted since the shining. Yeah. But he did Flanagan reach out to him and he was happy to do a cameo in the movie. So yeah. Yeah, so yeah, we can go either way. Whether we want to talk about Rose

[01:01:36] and in the true not or if we want to go to Abra, I'll let it be your call. OK, I think we should go with Rose. All right. Bookend it with the lighter characters. Yes, let's talk about. Yeah, let's talk about the terror the horror first.

[01:01:54] Right. So yeah, we talked about Violet McGraw being in here because that's the opening scene of the movie really is is kind of meeting Rose, the hat and her interaction with Violet, which again, director's cut. I think there was extra to this scene to even Violet's demise

[01:02:14] is shown a little bit more than just implied in the director's cut. Not not not to the extent yeah that Bradley is but but you see it's like oh, they definitely yeah, she's it's not good. You know, I think the true not is really like one big parasite.

[01:02:35] You know, Dick says it best where they're there he's telling Danny that sometimes there are you know, bad people or dark things and they're like leeches. Yeah. And that's when Dick teaches him about building the box. The truth. I mean, we get to see through Rose and her,

[01:02:58] especially through Rose, just how diabolical her group is. Yeah, this this creepy scene with Violet and as the friends continue to show up and you realize and it sets the tone pretty early and it gives that like motivation for Rose, the things that she says.

[01:03:19] You know, it's like, you don't eat flowers, she goes, oh, yes, you do. Sometimes you do. And she's like, well, you can't eat those ones. They're special. And she goes, one of the special ones tastes the best. It very much right off the bat sets

[01:03:33] the tone of what these people are, what they're doing. You know, that Violet has some magic in her, right? This shine and and Rose and her friends or her family, as she calls it later, you know, they feed on that shine. That's they can smell it

[01:03:48] like they can smell it. They can sense it. And they do. They feed off it. Yeah, and then we do see it's kind of a quick little like like if you miss it kind of thing. But this scene with Violet, the taking of Violet actually happened.

[01:04:05] When Danny was still a child. Yes. So you're seeing that, you know, yeah, Rose has been at it for a while. She has. I thought that the costuming for that group was pretty interesting because it seemed to kind of match people coming from different decades.

[01:04:25] Yeah, it was cool. Yeah, you mentioned the other kind of smell things out and it's like crow crow daddy, the crow as Averilix Khan. But yeah, Rose refers to crow daddy. He's credited as crow daddy. But yeah, he's great. But yeah, he's kind of the hunter

[01:04:44] of the group. It's part of his shine, part of his ability is being able to sense other people stronger than even the others do, it seems. So he's kind of the hunter. He's the one that's finding the kids and going after them. And he he finds Andy.

[01:05:03] But then instead of her just being the next target, he goes to Rose and this is all kind of off screen. But you know that he goes to Rose and is like this one might be more than just food. Like she's a pusher.

[01:05:16] Rose says we haven't had a pusher in the group in a while. There's she's got a specific ability that could be used to to help the group and find more and get more victims. It's used on Bradley's like he was a smart kid.

[01:05:31] He wasn't going to get in a van with a bunch of strangers. That's why Andy's there. Exactly. And so yeah, Crow is taking Rose to see Andy in action. This teenage girl who's using her shine to I mean honestly to do some great work. Let's be real. Yeah.

[01:05:50] While putting some cash in her pocket on the side, but yeah, the true not are definitely intrigued by this ability and instead of food, she is a new recruit. Yeah, Rose asked her if she wants to live longer and be fed and taken care of and basically

[01:06:10] we get to see that. I did love her clever way because they call her a snake by Andy. And it's because she slices the victims. She puts them to sleep, tells them to go to sleep, a very deep sleep and then she cuts them

[01:06:28] two little fangs in the side of their cheek and tells them you might forget about me. You're not going to forget about this because you're going to see it every single time. But it's almost like this form of like hypnosis to where it is not

[01:06:43] only is it like you'll remember this, but it's like every time you see that in the mirror, then you will say, you know, it's like it's very you're never going to outlive this. You're never going to outrun it. This is you now. And yeah, it's it's great.

[01:06:57] So she's she's definitely a dangerous. She is this team. So yeah, she gets brought in like you know, so like tolerance and Danny, you mentioned there's like there are dark things that will hunt and eat what shines. And it's like, yeah, these are the people that do that.

[01:07:12] Where do they get those steam canisters at sea? I don't know. I don't know. They don't have a lot of them. They use them very sparingly and you get the impression and through what Rose says, they don't get to feed a lot. Not like they used to.

[01:07:32] Maybe the supply is going down Rose because you've been running around the country and the world feeding. There's only a certain number of people who shine that you can feed on before they're all gone. Yeah. And it seems that yeah, this steam and shine.

[01:07:50] Yeah, because it seems like it's a genetic thing. Yeah. To some degree, like that's kind of what seems to be implied in a lot of Stephen King's works. And so yeah, you keep killing all the kids that have it, like then they don't grow up and have

[01:08:00] kids of their own. And eventually you do kind of just end the supply. There's not. And yeah, because Crowe mentions that is he's on the trail of Bradley on this boy and he's like, I'm on the trails like we're going to have to clear all the way to

[01:08:15] Iowa for this. But it's like it's less available than it was and it's weaker than it used to be. And yeah. And this is this kid Bradley he's a talented baseball player because he basically can tell what the pitcher is going to do. So he's able to

[01:08:34] adjust and hit the ball. Yeah, he's got a reputation for being incredible. Yeah. Like that Rose is just she sits on the watch tower, which isn't like literal watch tower because she's on top of the RV. But I like that it's figurative like she's kind

[01:08:50] of going into this like trance, this zone where she's like reaching out and looking for for shine in this way. So it is kind of I like that like watch tower idea of that because she's she's looking for her whale, right? The big score. Someone like Abra.

[01:09:08] But yeah, I had a note that we jumped over some backtracking for a second because you mentioned Andy again, accepting the deal. And I like that when she wakes up and she asked am I still human and Rose response with does it matter? Which I thought was really

[01:09:22] interesting because it is kind of like a form of vampire. Yeah. In the loose sense of the kind of what they are. They're immortal with quotations around it beings. You know, as long as they're feeding on life essence of others and instead of blood, it's

[01:09:38] steam this essence shine. It's like Robin Robinson feeds on right. Person's energy. I mean, they just that's what they feed on and they are vampires in some way. Yeah, you mentioned the next victim, the true not number 19 on this eight air Iowa Little League Baseball Team Bradley Trevor.

[01:10:03] Yeah, Jacob Tromblay who we talked about before I wake when he was really little and he still actually is crazy to go back and watch this movie only in 2019. He's still so young looking in this movie. Yeah, as is Kylie Kerr and who plays Abra after

[01:10:17] just watching her in Fall of House of Us. I know it's just a few years like four years difference. But they grow. They grow. There's this age that they're in. Yeah, so much changes in three or four years. And it's so obvious. Like I know Brad, Jacob

[01:10:34] Tromblay is going to look so much older the next time we see him in a Flanagan film, which will be very soon because he is in the cast of Flanagan's next upcoming film, The Life of Chuck. So boy, I'm excited for that one. I can't wait.

[01:10:49] Another Stephen King adaptation from Flanagan. So because I think Stephen King trusts him now because he did Gerald's game. He's done this one. I think he trusts him and knows that he's not going to steer it in a bad direction. Yeah. So his third King adaptation is coming

[01:11:12] this next year. And I'm so excited. Yeah. There he's also doing a very big Stephen King adaptation. Yeah, nothing is 100 percent confirmed on that yet. But but yeah, it's kind of like a not well kept secret because. Amazon has the rights to the Dark Tower.

[01:11:35] Flanagan left Netflix and went to Amazon. What other reason would that be for other than to finally get his dream that he is on record of talking about adapting the Dark Tower? I know. And who better to do it, right? Right. I mean, really, someone

[01:11:50] who's proven that they can handle a task. Of that magnitude. But yeah, so the baseball game scene, you mentioned it. Yes, that's the cameo. There's the two guys in the crowd talking about Bradley's impeccable baseball skills and Crow is sitting behind them

[01:12:08] listening in and the one on the right, the screen right that we're like, who's the one that's really talking about? Oh man, he's good at this. And he did what? That's Danny Lloyd, who played Danny Torrance in The Shining. So yeah. Yeah, he's talking about Bradley

[01:12:23] and how he's able to you know, determine what the pitcher is going to throw. And you can tell at that point that Crow doubt he's eating it up and knows that they've got a winner there. He's eating it up there and then eating it up later. Yep.

[01:12:43] Man, which to get to that, as I mentioned, this is honestly one of my favorite movies of all time, probably in the top five. Definitely top 10 for sure. Except this scene, the death of Bradley Trevor. It's Oh man. It's so visceral and intense and horrifying.

[01:13:06] Especially again, because I own the director's cut, which again, one of the differences are is they were like, I remember how terrible and horrifying and awful that scene was. What if we added more? What if we showed Jacob Trombley's face in agony and blood just

[01:13:21] spraying up onto his face and really let you see what they're doing for a minute and just let's live in it and really know why Flanagan why so that makes it even harder to watch and it's. I have to give credit a lot to Jacob Trombley, this kid

[01:13:41] for making it so hard to watch because he just especially in those scenes where they added more, he emits that fear, that pain, that agony so well. Well, the conversation too that went on between the two of them here, you're not going to hurt me,

[01:13:57] are you? And she's like, yes, yes, I am. And yeah, it's horrifying like what she does. And I didn't even get to see it all and no, I'm not watching the director's cut. I do not want to see anything more because what I saw was enough.

[01:14:12] Oh my God, he's so believable during that scene. It's it's so well done to even to the point where I haven't watched this movie in a while. When this movie comes up, when Dr. Sleep is brought up, it's the first thing that comes to mind. Always.

[01:14:25] Is that scene? Always. Just it's one of those things just even thinking about like your stomach aches a little bit. You're just like, yes. Oh, it takes you back there and you know it. It's funny because I told Chris that we were covering this

[01:14:39] one this week and he's like, well, you know about that part that everyone thinks of and I'm like, yes, I do because I think of it. Yeah, every time. And it is so rough. However, do I think it's gratuitous? Do I think it's unnecessary? No, no.

[01:14:58] And in the grand scheme, it's incredibly necessary and important for this movie because and Flanagan has talked about that too. It's yeah, it's a lot. It is. We need it. We need to feel the true danger and ever needed to see it. Yeah. Ever needed to see that.

[01:15:18] So we know what the true not is capable of. We know what they do. We feel the fear the danger that Abra is in. So yeah. So when we know that she is the next that they're targeting, that that fear is real for her. But even us as

[01:15:32] a viewer, we fear for her. Yeah, we don't want to see her go through this. It was bad enough seeing one child go through it. We don't want to see Abra who we've gotten to know go through this. So it's scary. I mean, you're connected to the

[01:15:49] character and you're fearful of what's going to happen for her. Which is a fear. It goes the other way because I love that when we see Rose dealing with Abra, the more that they connect, you see it that Rose is scared of Abra's power. She's excited by it.

[01:16:08] She has to have her. Yeah, I fucking want her. Right. But but she's she's scared. It's always the excitement. She's never had a she's never had prey. She's never had a quarry that it feels like a big game hunter kind of thing.

[01:16:23] It's like, oh yeah, you can go out and deer and elk and whatever all you want. But we want to go on that hunt where you're hunting a lion. You're hunting a bear. You're hunting, you know, something that can easily kill you or fight back.

[01:16:33] And it's like this excitement to her where she's yeah, I think I have going after the white whale right? You know, I think she's high on adrenaline at that point. I think she's just so driven and excited by the potential and she can't stop herself. Yeah.

[01:16:58] And she's even thinking of risking it even further. Like, oh, we don't just feed on her. But I know that she's too powerful to become a follower, so we can't like have her join us either. So there's like this risk in the

[01:17:08] middle is like, what do we just keep her and drain her for years and years and years? And it's that in its own right. You're like, she's pushing it. She's really writing that line. Yeah, it makes her like she's cattle, like she's something to be owned.

[01:17:24] And that's yeah, terrifying as well. Yeah. And I I do love when Crow is warning Rose to be careful when dealing with Abra, even when she's just going to go and look in her mind while she's asleep. And she's like he tells me, be careful, really think about

[01:17:40] what you're doing. And Rose's response, she's a little girl. I love that because because if there's one thing that this podcast has taught us for all the things that we've covered and talked about this through line through so many episodes, is you never underestimate someone for their youth.

[01:17:59] No, you don't. That sometimes it's the youngest and most innocent of all of us who are the most capable of the greatest things. You know, exactly. Exactly. It's true. I mean, how many times have people disregarded children? Yeah. Things could have been so much

[01:18:15] easier if they had listened. You know, kids are resilient and they're able to come through in ways that you never realized. Yeah. So like that line is great because it's it's Rose underestimating Abra, where you know, it's like, oh, you are in for it. You have no idea.

[01:18:41] And I love that you're underestimating her because it just means that she is going to smash you into next week with her with how tenacious that she is. Yeah. Although I will say, though, Rebecca Ferguson just Oh, my God. Perfect. I love her. I love her so much.

[01:18:59] And she's so great in this role. She need to finish Silo. I still haven't finished it because she's so good. I know. Let's see. Next. The death of grandpa flick is the next that I have kind of in theirs, which is such an interesting parallel. It is.

[01:19:20] You know, as Dan was sitting there at bedside helping people that are dying lean away from their fear. Rose is doing the same thing for flick. But the memories that she's supplying with him with are the fear that others felt because of him towards him.

[01:19:37] You know, that it's this. Oh, here's all the positive memories here. No, she's like, you're a warrior. You're this. People were afraid of you. You're this. To where there's like this parallel between them. Yeah. But then the difference is like when he dies. It's all off.

[01:19:53] It doesn't matter anymore. You see the group pounce on this lingering steam there. It's almost it's cannibalistic in the way it is done. It's almost like a ritual of some kind, like a writer passage. You leave, but you feed the group as you're leaving.

[01:20:11] Yeah, it's it's very creepy. How they can just let go of someone and then take their essence. Yeah. Other stuff that goes on again, I don't want to focus. Don't want to focus too much on Abra yet. But I love that kind of on the flip

[01:20:30] side, those you see that like this fear that comes in creeps in into rows about Abra. The other side that's not really there, Abra has like no fear of no, she's not afraid of her and she's almost defiant and holding it over her. Yeah, because I love after

[01:20:49] all of the rest of the true not members in this group are all dead and it's just Rose left and Abra is walking down the road by herself and this apparition appears and Rose is there trying to instill fear in her, trying to threaten her.

[01:21:05] And Abra just walks right walks right through nothing and it's so good. Give me, you know, basically not giving Rose any credit or looking at her like she's any threat at all, which I think takes away power. I mean, Rose wants people to fear her and

[01:21:25] Abra's just not giving it to her. She's not giving her what she wants, most of all. Well, second to consuming Abra, she wants Abra to fear her. Yeah, that's like you mentioned yeah, what what Rose says to Bradley is, you know, pain purifies the steam fear to.

[01:21:50] So, you know, that's and so she's trying to get that from Abra's like, well, let's build that up. Let's get this pain and fear. Which is interesting because then I also, you know, Rose is so pissed. It's not fear, but this anger almost does the same thing.

[01:22:07] But, you know, we just see Rose. She sucks down all of the steam that's left in those canisters kind of to go into ultimate strength to go after Abra, right? Yeah. But in the end, that's her downfall. So much steam, so much shine just pulsing through her.

[01:22:26] She takes all of it in. And you remember what Dick Holler and had said to Danny about the monsters and the ghosts of stuff of the overlook? There's like when you walked into there, how amount of shine you had, you light up like a thousand watt

[01:22:40] light bulb. Yep. And so Rose walks into that place. She is the biggest, juiciest target imaginable. That's exactly what they wanted. Yep. They want to consume. Like her, they're focused on consuming. Unfortunately, there were no ghosts there at first. Right. Well, they kept kind of

[01:23:01] building it up in there. Yeah. But I'll talk again with Abra. But man, as far as Rose, with her being there in the overlook, Flanagan had the opportunity to recreate some iconic shots like he talked about. And man, he took him. He took those opportunities.

[01:23:20] We even like stuff that like was it necessary? No, probably not. But we can do it the blood in the elevators, the, you know, the big open room with the type writer on the table with somebody standing on the stairs with the ax in hand like this

[01:23:32] the snowy hedge maze. All of this is like. Yeah, it's just fan service. And it's it's servicing the fan that Flanagan is. He's serving. He's just giving it to himself. He's like, I can do this. Yeah. I think sometimes he creates the movies that he wants to watch.

[01:23:49] Yeah. Knowing that a lot of people have the same taste as him. But he was very careful with this one because he wanted to. He really wanted to make sure that those who loved the movie or the book were happy with what he did.

[01:24:05] And so he listens, he pays attention. He knows what people are looking for. He does this research. He doesn't just run in and make a movie without any plan. Like he really thinks out everything. Yeah. But I like that Rose, once she realizes what's going on, it's not

[01:24:28] Abra's mind she was in, but it's Dan and she's impressed with the power that Dan has. And like she's surprised that she never found him when he was a kid. Well, because he bottled everything up and hit it away. Boxed it. So. She she makes her offer

[01:24:48] like she did with Andy and, you know, makes those offers to him. Obviously he's not going to go for it. Right. So if he's not going to join, then you she'll have to get what she can from him. Which is way more than she bargained for. Right? Yes.

[01:25:06] Oh, what do you got in there? Must be special. No, they're starving. Yeah. And by by Rose, the hat. Yeah, he releases them from their boxes, knowing that it could also cause him to have a prop. I mean, once they're out, they're out

[01:25:29] like they're not going back in the boxes. So he also, you know, he didn't even take a minute. He let them out to to take her down knowing that they may be after him after. Which is why he tells Abra to run.

[01:25:47] I think I don't think he's worried about Rose. I don't think he's telling Abra run away from here because Rose is going to get you. No, no. Abra can handle Rose. It's what he's about to do to take care of that. Abra needs to get away from.

[01:26:00] Yeah. And she did. Rose got a good chunk of Dan Shine because she stabs him in the leg and Nixon artery. And so he's bleeding and she uses that to her advantage, which again becomes his advantage because they're pumping our full of shine. So when those creatures

[01:26:23] are out, what's the you know, which is actually the juiciest, you know, bait, the biggest treat in that room then, you know. Yeah, building her up so that they'll run to her. And then we see familiar faces, you know, the twins and Grady and

[01:26:41] everyone. I mean, all of the ghosts, the woman in the bathtub, they all come out to feed. Yeah. Yeah. But with with that, by by Rose, that's the last obviously that's no more. So at one point, Abra tells Rose that she should be afraid.

[01:27:03] And Dan says to Rose she's right. You should be afraid because you don't know where you're standing. Rose really didn't understand the power of the overlook and the spirits within it. She really had no idea now, which I like that she uses that same line on the

[01:27:22] hotel as it's possessing Dan. You don't know where you're standing. It's like, I know every hall of this place is like, no. Who you're standing in who is like, that's Dan Torrance. Like. But I think we can go now to Abra and all the amazingness

[01:27:39] that comes with her. Yeah. Again, yeah. Her her shine, how her how special she is, her parents learning that pretty early on when she's pretty young, the spoons, the piano, which I guess is a director's cut scene that is. Yeah, I didn't see that.

[01:28:01] So we get a scene of she's playing piano and she's playing this beautiful song and she's like really getting into it. I mean, she's a great young little pianist and she's playing and then her parents sent her to bed. It's like it's it's late.

[01:28:14] You need to go to bed. And then her parents are in bed asleep and then they wake up in the middle of the night hearing the piano playing. And they're like, you know, of course, it's like Abra, you know, so they go downstairs and when they get down

[01:28:28] there, all the lights are still off and the pianos just sitting there playing by itself as she is still playing this melody while she's up in bed, you know, just using her mind to have it playing. And it's kind of the first little thing, which is really cool.

[01:28:40] I like that scene. And so it's interesting that it's not for and not everybody sees that scene. But I like it. But I think again, her parents didn't know what to think about this ability that she has. It makes me kind of think of

[01:28:55] Yellow Jackets and Laudy and her parents and how they how her dad especially just wanted to get a shrink to medicators so that it would go away. It doesn't seem like Abra's parents subscribe to that. Thought process and they're kind of just letting things be, I think.

[01:29:17] Yeah, but but there's still a negativity into some degree. It may be bad, bad. But Abra talks to Dan about that of saying, like, you know, when I do use my shine, when I do these things, my parents do look at me

[01:29:29] different if they even look at me at all like there definitely is a problem there. They don't understand it and it does scare them. Yeah. Well, people often fear things they don't understand in general. Yeah. And we see Abra even from a young age, she's so strong

[01:29:48] with that shine, you know, Crow talking about how it's weaker and less. Not for her. No, Abra definitely is an exception to that rule. She is very strong to where even Dan can feel it like it's like it's the force or something. I mean, he's a good one.

[01:30:04] I knew you would go there. You'd find a way to get there. But unfortunately, so can Rose feel it as well. Even when she's little, you know, we get the scene with the spoons and that's happening as Rose is recruiting Andy and you see this

[01:30:21] moment where she stops like I sense disturbance in the force. Yeah. She can tell there's someone out there that they need to find because she's strong even as like a five or six year old, like she is definitely strong. But then as Rose realizes kind of

[01:30:47] what's going on, the watcher, there's we have a watcher, we have the little spy and. Rose is excited about that. It's like, man, what a giant source of steam. That's the mother load, you know, the whale. That's what it's what we're after.

[01:31:03] And then Abra on the other side, it's like this two things like she's hunting this is like, man, this is the biggest score we can have is what Rose is thinking. But then Abra with her abilities sees some pretty horrific things. But then instead of being

[01:31:17] afraid of it and pulling away, she's like, no, we have to. We have to do something about that is on me to make this better. She wanted to make sure that Bradley's family had closure. Yeah, which she's so precise. I love that, you know,

[01:31:38] just through this mental like shine connection they have, she's like, oh, I made a new friend. Oh, his name is Dan. It's like, oh, he lives near by Frazier. I think she can just pinpoint like where he's at just like. Yeah. And then she goes to school

[01:31:53] and she's searching online to get baseball boys name because I was like, Dan, that's a really nice house. I just had to. I was like, that's a really nice house she's got. But. Yeah, she shines on basically looking at that. And then using that to kind of

[01:32:13] piece back the memories of when she experienced when it happened. To where she can look through the eyes of different people and different things through his and see where his body is located. And then she pushes further trying to find Rose. And she does.

[01:32:31] She locates Rose in a grocery store. Maybe what she wasn't expecting was Rose to be able to poke right back. But but Aber is powerful and once Rose does poke back in, she pushes her right back out and it's Rose is impressed. Yeah, she's one or even

[01:32:51] more. Yeah. She's like, oh, I got to I want her because she's special. Like she knows that Aber is incredibly powerful and she wants that because she knows it's going to taste good. Yeah. And with her pushing her out in the grocery store, there's this

[01:33:09] big kind of tremor, this big boom, which, of course, yeah, knocks Rose out of her head and out back and then even affects Dan in the crossfire of it because of whatever connection that they have. So like if there's the little Tony reference there. Who's Tony?

[01:33:28] Again, I think was a director's cut only. But because of that instance, it actually does help them track down where Aber is because Crow comes to Rose in a scene. I think this is only director's cut scene where she's kind of meditating and searching for Aber

[01:33:41] and he's like, I think I have a lead and then he pulls up a news story about a low level earthquake in this little New Hampshire town that that was not. Yeah. Yeah. And that's because of that moment where it's like on Tuesday night,

[01:33:58] this earthquake happened and it's like, but that, you know, people are said, well, there's no. Seismic activity there. There shouldn't be. It's like, I think that's her. And that's how they that's how then Rose knows where to go to like enter her room

[01:34:11] and find her ladders because they pinpointed it to the street that this earthquake happened on. Yeah. Well, when Rose's group goes, they crowed out. He doesn't want her to go. He makes her stay behind. Yeah. After their interaction, even just in in their mind, in Abra's

[01:34:28] mind, which yeah, results in Rose's hand being to know me and the body. I know. I was like, yeah, that was rough. It's a good first strike from Abra, though, for sure. Yeah, we talked a little bit about Abra tracking down Dan and going

[01:34:46] to him, which, yeah, I think it's just she's so fiery. She hates Rose and the true knot and everything they're doing what they're done. And she's not afraid and she's like, we're going to do something. Yeah. I love that. And yeah, so Rose tracking her

[01:35:00] down, which again just shows how incredible. Abra is because Rose goes and investigates in her mind and she set a trap. Oh, he said you would be coming, you know, and then you notice the things without Abra. She changes her hair color and

[01:35:17] the way her hair looks gives herself kind of more of a blank face, which we know is an ability in there because Andy, that's a call back to Andy when she says to the old the older man in the movie theaters, like, you know, you will remember.

[01:35:31] The snake bite and you'll remember the teenage girl with a blank face because it's like you're not going to remember what I look like, but you know that that somebody did this. Yeah. So maybe think of that. Yeah. And then Rose is trapped in the file cabinet there

[01:35:49] in her mind. And then while that's happening, Abra is able to sneak into the cathedral of roses, right? Yes. So cool. And she's like going through the roses library of information very quickly, just poking around. The whole thing that with Rose's hand just made me think of Gerald's

[01:36:12] game. Yeah. It was rough. But I love that Abra then reaches out to Dan right after she's so proud of this win. You know that. You know, she got in Rose's head. I heard her. I heard her. I got in her head and I heard her.

[01:36:30] But Dan's not as happy about this revelation because Abra doesn't really grasp. You mentioned I don't think she realizes the danger she's in through most of the time. She doesn't really understand the hornet's nest that she just kicked. Yeah. No, she doesn't realize that they

[01:36:46] will be relentless in tracking her down and what her fate could be if they do get to her. But after that happens, yeah, of course, Dan knows what's going to happen knows how relentlessly they're going to go after her. So he has to go to Abra in person

[01:37:03] and you know, he's got the glove. They've got this stuff. So he's like, yeah, this is what we've got to do. And I don't blame David Abra's dad for coming out hot either, though. It makes sense. You know, oh, your uncle Dan coming to see my

[01:37:17] 13 year old daughter. I'll give you something to come here for. How about an ass whooping? Let's go. He's ready, which I don't blame him at all. No, Daddy Bear, get it. I mean, even Billy looks at them weird when Abra goes to see Dan.

[01:37:35] Yeah. And they're walking over to the bench. He's just looking like like it's awkward. So unfortunately, Abra has the job of having to make her dad experience Bradley's death and all its gory wonder all the way through. There's not enough. Understands. Yeah, so he understands what's

[01:37:55] going on and I can't help but laugh. It's it's dark humor, but it is very funny to me that when her dad sees Bradley's death in full Cinemax color, immediately it cuts to him his hand like shakily pouring a drink or two. It's like, yeah, that tracks.

[01:38:17] It's like I if I just got that downloaded into my brain all at once, I would definitely need a couple drinks to deal with that for a second. Yeah. He was completely rattled. He realized just how serious this is. And as you mentioned, yeah, Crow

[01:38:35] convinces Rose to stay behind because well, she's seen you. She's got a grasp on you so she can track you. What they don't know is Abra can also track them through Barry because of the baseball glove. Yes. So she still knows that they're on

[01:38:51] their way and it's time for a magic trick, which those projection skills that we saw her use before. It's a great scene. I love it. You know, Abra, Billy, Dan, they lead the knot out to the woods in this ambush where they gun them down one by

[01:39:07] one as Rose is watching from afar but feeling the pain of each one. You know, and then knowing that they were bested that Abra and then got the best of them. Well, almost all of them. You know, so Andy gets into the RV

[01:39:22] to kind of wait till Dan needs to reload so she can go out and almost kills Dan but Billy there to the rescue. R.A.P. Billy MVP of the movie. Yeah. And then also R.I.P. David because the Crow was not there in the woods.

[01:39:42] He went straight to Abra's house as the backup plan, which ends up being the other plan because now Crow has Abra. Luckily, yeah, Abra's mom went out of town to visit her mother or something. So yeah, I'm glad. Yeah, but you got more of the

[01:40:00] scene of the breakdown. Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole. I didn't get to see that. Yeah, I mentioned that. I think we weren't recording yet. So I mentioned that there is a yeah, when Crow is there in the house. Yeah, they expand on that and the

[01:40:13] director is cut with him, you know, injecting Abra and about to kind of take off with her. And then in comes dad holding that knife that he doesn't do a great job with it, but it does a great job to him. Yeah, but he comes into the kitchen

[01:40:30] holding that knife and he's like, you're not taking my daughter anywhere. And he kind of has this interaction with Crow. Again, I wish it was in the full version for people. But just to show that like evil Crow has a dark line, a great line though, where

[01:40:45] he was just like, oh, so your dad. And he goes, well, I'm really glad I got to meet you. I really wanted to meet you. And he's looking at him where he goes, because your daughter is about to be the best food we've ever had.

[01:40:56] And I'm lucky that I get to pay my compliments to the chef. And then he kills it. Just it's just. Yeah. And then, yeah, we then we see Crow carrying her unconscious body out the door and then it focuses in on dad laying there with the

[01:41:10] knife in his chest on the floor as they walk out. It's yeah, it's rough. And Abra wakes up in the van and she doesn't understand why she can't. Contact Dan. She can't. Make a connection. It's because something about the drug he gave her makes all of that subdued.

[01:41:35] Mm hmm. Like so that nothing will she can't amplify anything. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, and then we've talked about how happens to crow after that. And a lot of yeah, that really pissed Rose off. Very mad. And so then Dan goes and picks up

[01:41:54] Abra and they're on their way to Colorado, which I love Abra. She's so smart that she you know, her mom calls her from the house. She's come back home and sees the aftermath of what's happened and caring about her mom's well-being. She answers, lets her mom kind of

[01:42:11] know she's OK. I say, hey, you know, I love you. And then she hangs up and just dumps the phone out the window. She's like, I can't she's not going to know where I'm going. She's not going to have a way to track me because she I can't

[01:42:23] let her get involved also because that could happen to her. Right. She has to keep her mom out of it. And she basically says to Dan, you'll let my mom know where we are. When this is over. Didn't happen. No. So I'm sure one of the

[01:42:42] emergency services that came up that mountain had a way to contact afterwards. But yeah, because Dan's phone didn't really was a really worth much of anything. No. At the end of this. No, not at all. No. She trusted him. I mean, she was able to pull

[01:42:59] out of him, even though he was possessed by the other spirits. She was able to pull him out of that. But then he felt them taking over again and he just basically said run outside. I've got to do something because he knew he didn't want anything

[01:43:17] to happen to her. He put her needs above his own. And I think that's the final step in his redemption from where we met him in the beginning. Yeah. I do love the the scene of of Rose being pulled into Dan's mind. But Abra also like piggybacking

[01:43:40] on that. She also jumps in there. And again, it's this steaming up rose to so to speak, you know, for her fate later where Abra is kind of appearing and slashing at the back of her legs and then just really like toying with her. And what Abra says

[01:43:56] to Rose, she says pain purify steam fear to so you understand. It's the exact same words that Rose used to Bradley and said to him as Abra is watching. So she's able to play that back. You know, spit it right back out. Spit it out.

[01:44:14] Yeah. Because Dick says to Danny way, way back in the beginning. He talks to him about them feeding. So they eat screams, they drink pain and they've noticed that little girl. Yeah. It's like he hits at home and it's basically that describes them to a T.

[01:44:37] I mean, it's the true not again, a parasite feeds. And so I guess this works out to cover Abra last because it really is the very ending of the movie really hinges with her. Of course, we see Dan does not survive the overlook burning down.

[01:44:55] But as Dan has said to others and even to Abra, you know, but we go on, right? And so Abra's still able to talk to him. She's got her very own Dick hollerin, a doc hollerin, if you will. Which is also the name of Robert

[01:45:13] England's character from behind the mask. If you remember, he was doc hollerin, which is a direct reference to the shining as a combination of of Danny Torrance and Dick hollerin, which is really fun that they kind of went on and did that. Oh my goodness.

[01:45:32] Did you know that or did you find that out today? It's more of just an assumption. I know that the character is doc hollerin, which is like it's definitely a reference to the shining. So yeah. But then it's like, well, that's

[01:45:48] kind of what Danny is here is he becomes doc hollerin to Abra, right? He does. He's her her guardian angel doing for her what Dick did for him. Yep. And of course, the very ending of the movie is interesting because we do see

[01:46:06] it. It kind of plays like it should be like a dun dun dun. There's some tension, but not really because yes, the Overlook monsters now that the places burned down, what remains of them, they still are looking to feed and well, Danny Torrance was their target, but he's

[01:46:22] gone now. So who's the last other person that they've interacted with? Well, Abra Stone. And so they're there. They're following her. They're going to start appearing to her one by one. However, I don't think it's that tense or worrisome because no, it's Abra.

[01:46:39] She's way more than equipped to handle them. I think she's fine, you know, and we see that just like young Danny did seeing the woman in the bathtub and walking into the bathroom closing the door and like, all right, box it up. She knows what to do.

[01:46:53] She's not afraid. She's not afraid of it. She's she dealt with Rose the Hat. Yeah, you know, she can deal with her. She can deal with anyone. Yeah. That's that's it. That's all I got. It's didn't realize it's already been almost two hours, but it

[01:47:10] makes sense for this movie. I figured this would be a long one. Yeah, me too, because there's just so much to talk about. Yeah. And again, because I said that I feel like I talked most of this, hopefully you got enough. You got to say it now.

[01:47:23] I did. No, I felt like I was talking a lot and leading this a lot. But like I said, it's easily one of my top favorite movies of all time and the opportunity to like gush about this one, the characters, the arcs, the like little hidden

[01:47:37] heart things or the connections. This is a movie that I can nerd out about and like talk to somebody about forever. And I had the opportunity to do that. So I did. You know what's cool though? Here's the thing. You covered this with Rima on

[01:47:51] Strange Indeed a couple of years ago. And so what our listeners, I mean, I'm sure all of our listeners listen to you guys on Strange Indeed also. But in case they don't, the formats are different. So the way that we covered Doctor Sleep is different than

[01:48:09] what Pake and Rima did on Strange Indeed. So it's a different take there. The notes are different. The way that we talk about the movie is different. I still have my notes from the Strange Indeed Doctor Sleep episode. And I looked back at them not

[01:48:27] not to like influence any of my notes for this time, but afterwards just to kind of see like, oh, what's different? And yeah, because it's like a top five format the way that we did it. And I actually broke my points up into the different title card chapters

[01:48:43] because I watched the directors cut then too. So I just kind of did it in that way. They took the chapter titles and then like how they related to the movie. So let's see now. I'm just curious like it might be for anybody who's curious.

[01:48:59] It's interesting, I think. So like I took a parlor tricks was one of the chapter titles, which then I was like, OK, well, then like the unique abilities of Abra and Dan and kind of talking and made a whole point about them using their their tricks and their

[01:49:16] abilities. Turn World is one of them. So I kind of decided to take that as like the realities of the shine. What? What, you know, the shine is an important power, but. Also opens you up to to being hunted by by Rose and the true not and things,

[01:49:35] you know, and talking about the dangers there. Little spy is one of the titles. So it's literally just Abra and her watching them and the her back and forth with Rose. Empty Devils is one. So I just talked about the true not themselves and what they

[01:49:51] are and who they are and the things they did. And then Old Ghosts was another one. Which also I combined it with because there were six chapters and I did five. So there's always forgotten or what was forgotten and then Old Ghosts.

[01:50:07] So I threw those together and just kind of meant, you know, the ghost of Dan's past. So it was really talking about the growth of Dan. So, you know, talk about a lot of the same things, but like breaking it into points like that was

[01:50:18] really interesting to me. In this version, you got to talk about it in a different way. Yeah. And so I think that's good because I wasn't sure either when we talked about doing this movie because you had covered it already. You want to talk about this one

[01:50:35] again? It's like, do I want to talk about Dr. Sleep? Do I need an excuse to? Yes, I'm good with that. Well, I'm glad because it was fun to be able to talk about it with you and because there's just there's so many nuances and it's so deep,

[01:50:55] terrifying, upsetting. But there's also this empowerment and power in general. But I think to the underlining line of addiction, of you know, Dan's addiction, of the true knots addiction to inhaling and consuming the shine and what that can do to you and how two different ways

[01:51:23] it can end, where Dan has overcome his addiction and Rose has not. Yeah. And so it's like parallel stories of how things can turn out very differently in the destructiveness of addiction, the road that I can take you on. Yeah, it's a great way.

[01:51:43] I love it. I love it so much. I have just a couple of things that I want to share. OK, so you noticed, I'm sure the heartbeat that was going through. We kept hearing a heartbeat and that's really an homage to the original movie, The Shining

[01:52:05] because we hear to the heartbeat like intensifying to help show some tension. It just makes me think of playing dead by daylight because it's a heartbeat that plays. It's like, oh no, someone's chasing me. How am I going to get out? I also think it's interesting

[01:52:26] that the cat would go and sit on the patient's beds and it makes me think, is there some sort of shining that the cat does? Like, is this only something that can happen with humans or can animals experience it too? So I thought that that was

[01:52:46] that was interesting. Yeah. And I have one more and I got to find it. Oh, OK. And Terry Notary, who is someone that has come up very frequently in Run Fair Lives Land, did some work on this film. He was the movement coach for The True Knot.

[01:53:08] Uh huh. Yeah. He helped kind of create this physical appearance to their movements and their bodies and I think that's interesting. Yeah, because I didn't think of it that way until I was reading more about the movie and found that. Yeah, probably especially like their their death scenes.

[01:53:33] Yeah. Yeah, because there was a lot that happened without the they just disintegrated. Like, and I didn't understand that. Do you know why? I mean, was there something special in the bullets? No, it was just because any of them, no matter how they died.

[01:53:51] Because I think it goes back to when Rose turns Andy and she asks if I still human and, you know, response doesn't matter. And just like I felt like I was dying and Rose says you did. It says, oh, you brought me back so they aren't human anymore.

[01:54:07] The only thing holding their bodies together is shine. Yeah, steam. So when they die, the steam is all that they are. They kind of are this embodiment of steam. That makes perfect sense. Thank you for the clarification. Well, that's all that I had.

[01:54:26] So I think we did it. Nice. I do hope that our listeners have a lot to say about this one. I feel like they might because I know we have a lot of Stephen King fans. I know we have a lot of Mike Flanagan fans.

[01:54:43] So I'm curious about what they may have to say about this one. Yeah, I'd love to know. Speaking of that, there's right on cue. Almost as if it was a push of a button. You crazy, right? Yeah, what? Go get that. All right. Checking the feedback phone and

[01:55:03] holy cow, we got a lot of feedback this week, which is awesome. I love that, which feels good for the Flanagan-ness of everything. Flanagan deserves lots of feedback. Feedback for always hashtag feedback for Flanagan. Is that it? Always, I agree 100 percent. I thought this one might.

[01:55:26] You know, encourage people to send something in because there are always a lot of feelings about it. So I'm glad that there was this great response. Yeah. All right, well, let's go ahead and dive into these. And I think you can take the first one.

[01:55:40] This one is from Levi, they say, forgive that I'm usually out on these, but I just have to say, I think this is better than the shining, incredibly powerful movie on the dangers of any addiction. I love it so much. Proper sequel in every respect. Nice. Good.

[01:56:01] I like that a lot. Thanks, Levi. Yeah, we don't hear from you too often. So it is good whenever you pop on it. You know what? We usually hear from Levi when they have good news for us. Yeah, we've been talking about

[01:56:16] something coming up later this year, perhaps that might have something to do with something that came up last year that we also had something to do with. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get to that. We'll talk about that as we get closer. I'm sure. Absolutely.

[01:56:30] Well, why don't you take this next one? All right, from Derek, which is good. This is going to be like a feedback section of like people we don't hear from all the time, but always love to hear from them when we do. So I love that.

[01:56:43] So this one from Derek says, I set a low bar. I'd hoped it would be maybe as good as the thing prequel or the 2013 Evil Dead movie, but I absolutely loved it when I watched it the first time and then watch the director's cut in the same weekend

[01:56:56] and was it was even better. Excellent work again by Mike Flanagan, one of my favorite sequels ever. Nice. Thank you, Derek. Yeah, and I as everyone has just listened to this episode as we've talked about this, you know, I wholeheartedly agree with that statement.

[01:57:13] It's I'm in the same camp for sure. I think it's as sequels go, one of my favorites, but even just like movies in general, it's one of my favorites. Yes. Catherine says, every time I watch Dr. Sleep, I love it a little bit more.

[01:57:27] I'm not sure if that's because I pick up all more details or that every rewatch seems to happen after I watch a Flanagan show. I just finished the fall of the House of Usher last week, which included strange indeed coverage, of course. Thank you.

[01:57:44] I've never read Dr. Sleep, but I have read the shining several times. Flanagan's ending of Dr. Sleep seemed to wrap up the ending that was missed and the shining movie adaptation. But that makes me wonder how the book differed. I'm looking forward to the production notes

[01:58:02] and if you cover how Stephen King thought it turned out. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks. You've listened to this episode now, so you know, I've talked about also the same things about some of the differences with the books and wanting to go back and check out books.

[01:58:17] So again, we, you know, inside baseball, break the fourth wall a little bit where we record feedback a little bit later than the actual episode. So to you, it's going to be like, oh, wow, I've made a lot of progress in 15 minutes.

[01:58:29] But for Daphne and for others, yeah, by the time we're actually recording the feedback for this to come out, I'm almost halfway through the shining. I'm about halfway through the shining now. I've been I made good on that. I've been working on it.

[01:58:43] And yeah, I'm absolutely loving it. Can't wait to read all of that and then get on to Dr. Sleep and see how it all plays out. But yeah, we have a next one here from Laura says, I don't like to compare this to the shining because the premise

[01:58:55] of both movies seems very different from each other. But as a standalone film, I did enjoy this very much. I like how Flanagan seamlessly thread the needle of pleasing both fans of the book and of the original movie.

[01:59:06] You had a Gregor was great as an older Danny Torrance struggling with both his powers and his addiction. When the iconic first notes of the score from the shining played, I got chills. Yes, Laura. Yeah. To. Yep. That music hits you every time. It's terrifying, right? So good.

[01:59:31] Well, we heard from Gemma. She says, oh, this movie really stuck with me. I actually loved all of the overlook hotel stuff. And then Rose, the hat getting her come up in there was fantastic. Just seeing the hotel again, chills. However, I can't watch certain scenes again

[01:59:51] like baseball boy as it's too much. I got three boys and the scene will haunt me forever. Also, I hate this woman in the bathtub. That scene in the shining is also petrifying. It's awful to see her again.

[02:00:06] I think you and McGregor and Rebecca Ferguson do a great job in this, though, and the little girl. Yeah, have to agree. Well, so yeah, Kylie Curran. Playing Abra. Yeah, so good. So Gemma, if you've watched Fall of House, I'm sure I don't know if you have,

[02:00:24] you know, Catherine mentioned earlier that she had just watched all of it. But Kylie Curran back in the flantiverse with that one. So all right, we got one last one here from Maureen says, best summer reading ever was when I chose to reread the shining

[02:00:41] followed by newly released Dr. Sleep. Think I might do this every 10 years. That's an interesting specific block of time that you've set for that. But you know what? That's a good I like I like that. And then I am like I just mentioned a minute ago

[02:00:56] on that exact same journey right now doing that, reading them back to back. And yep, I think it's going to be a lot of fun so far it has been. I'm glad that you have stuck with it. If you'd like to submit your feedback, like Levi, Derek, Catherine,

[02:01:13] Lara, Gemma or Maureen, you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Run For Your Lives podcast. You can email us at run for your lives podcast at gmail.com. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to tell all your friends.

[02:01:27] We are available on Apple, Spotify, YouTube and all other podcast players. Go to run for your lives podcast.com for all the links you'll ever need and give us a review on Apple podcasts. That's the best way to share the love and get us out there even more.

[02:01:45] We really appreciate it. We really do. Thank you guys so much. And of course, talking about sharing the love got to give those shout outs of things going on in the podcast universe around us, that podcast universe under the name of podcastica specifically. Our network here.

[02:02:02] I've been kind of just skipping over Strange Indeed because we're still on hiatus. Me and Remus still don't have the exact next thing planned in motion. So if you have ideas for us over there, still keep reaching out to us

[02:02:12] because we miss you guys and miss recording, but still just waiting for the right thing to come along. But since people kind of mentioned it and it ties into this, throw that shout out one more time.

[02:02:22] The most recent thing that we finished covering that you can go back and listen to all of that coverage as Catherine just did is the fall of the House of Usher, Mike Flanagan's Netflix series, kind of retelling a bunch of Edgar Allen Poe's greatest works all mashed

[02:02:36] into one story and it's great. It's so much fun. So if you want something, go check that out. Yeah, a lot of other great stuff going on in podcastica. Of course, the walking dead rewatch over on the cast of us still going

[02:02:49] strong season two episode six secrets was this week. And then on Ted Lasso revisited on the revisited podcast, their season two episode five rainbow. So you go check that out. Still slaying trucking through there's slaying all of season three. They're not just picking certain targets.

[02:03:07] They're slaying the whole season and they are on episode five this week homecoming. What is from the From podcast? MGM plus series from they're doing the rewatch over there as well. A deep dive rewatch. So they have choosing day and they've got a special guest over there, Bob

[02:03:27] Mann, talking about some set secrets, haunting narrative, stuff like that. So some really cool stuff. Check that out. And let's see. Lastly on podcastica, at least welcome to the apocalypse. The comedy improv apocalypse show is back with episode four.

[02:03:52] Continuing on that it is George and the giant mall. So I'm always loving listening to these. I'm only like five, ten minutes into this episode. I've listened to just a little bit of it as I just went and it's Oscar season. So I'm watching all the movies.

[02:04:11] So I was just at the theater all day watching and knocking some movies off of my my list and so listening to that on the drive back home was nice. So yeah, good. Check that out for sure. It's hilarious.

[02:04:24] They've been killing it over there and I can't wait to be on it sometime. But yeah, all of that great stuff going on in podcastica. But we are always running keeping this thing going here. We're running for our lives, bringing new episodes every week.

[02:04:42] So if you come back, we'll have something for you, definitely. What are we doing next week? So next week, we embark on an epic journey through a fantastical realm where a diverse group of adventurers must unite to thwart an ancient evil

[02:04:58] that's threatening to plunge the world into darkness. Wow, that sounds a lot like that game you play. Wait. It's a 2023 film adaptation Dungeons and Dragons directed by Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daley and starring Chris Pine, Michelle Rodriguez and Hugh Grant. Yeah, Dungeons and Dragons honor among thieves.

[02:05:24] It's maybe not necessarily in the realm. Ha ha realm funny of our usual run for your lives kind of stuff. It's not like a big monster movie or crazy stuff going on. But you know, it's Dungeons and Dragons and there are dragons

[02:05:41] and there's there's evil afoot at hand even. So I know certainly have to run. So I think it definitely fits. Plus we've always talked about we like to bend the rules since our podcast. And it gives me an opportunity to nerd out about D&D.

[02:06:02] So I'm always cool with that. And I do ask a bunch of fun questions that I've always wanted to know the answers to, but have not had the opportunity to ask himself was a ton of fun talking about this movie.

[02:06:16] Definitely. Yeah, I probably never would have seen it if it wasn't for the podcast. So I'm glad that we decided to cover it. Well, with that, we've reached the end of our episode. Thanks everyone for listening. I'm Daphne and I'm Pake.

[02:06:31] And if you have to run, you better run for your lives.