Run For Your Lives Podcast Episode 163: Nimona

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm Daphne. And I'm Pake. And this is the Run For Your Lives Podcast. This episode we will be talking about the Oscar-nominated animated sci-fi adventure film, Nimona, directed by Nick Bruno and Troy Quain and released June 23rd, 2023. Yes.

[00:00:54] And yeah, it's animated as I mentioned there, which we were talking before recording this. This is the first other than Mad God, which was stop motion, but I don't think it qualifies necessarily. If we want to talk about like animated feature, like kid-friendly animated

[00:01:14] movies. This is the first one since the summer of 22 when we did Monster House and Mitchell's versus the Machines before that, which was also Oscar-nominated. And that's the reason why we're jumping on this one. If you remember last week, we did Society of

[00:01:30] the Snow as it's like Oscar season. Things are getting, you know, ramping up as we're getting close to the Oscar awards, the Academy Awards. And so I'm pulling some of the nominated films

[00:01:42] from this year that sort of fit. You know, this one, there's a big like Kaiju Monster scene at the end of the movie. So yeah, I think it fits. There's that. People were definitely running

[00:01:55] Pink. They were definitely running. Yes, definitely. So I think it definitely fits what we try to do on this podcast. And we do like to cover Oscar-nominated films from time to time. Yeah. Whenever we can in this lead up to the Oscars taking place next month.

[00:02:17] I watched this one several weeks ago is just when I first started my Oscar watch as I do every year, try to watch everything. This was one of the first ones I knocked out

[00:02:25] when the nominations came out and immediately it was like, I want to cover this on the podcast. Like one again, it's covered so we have our like Oscar season movies. It sort of fits and

[00:02:36] it'll be fun to talk about. But then also there's just so many things in this movie that I really just wanted to like bring up and talk to you about and talk about out there, which, you know,

[00:02:48] if you're somebody who's listening to this that doesn't like a whole lot of, you know, soapboxy, preachy social justice kind of stuff, this might not be your favorite one because I'm going to just like, I'm going off. I'm going to talk about all like,

[00:03:02] this is very important and I think it is a very important movie that had a lot of poignant things to say, but said them in a really fun and funny way. And so that's how I'm going to

[00:03:14] do it. You know, if you remember, we said it's been almost two years, a year and a half since we've done one of these movies. But when we have an animated kid friendly movie,

[00:03:25] we try to keep ourselves kid friendly here as well in case any of you listeners have children who enjoy these movies that might want to check in with what we had to say. Most kids

[00:03:33] don't care about podcasts at all, but just in case it's safe to play around them for the most part. So we try to keep ourselves clean, you know, not explicit in our language or like specific

[00:03:46] things that we talk about. However, with this movie, I mean, I'm going to be diving into a lot of just this movie is queer representation and recognition. And there's a lot of very important societal aspects to this that I'm definitely going to talk about because yeah.

[00:04:02] Well, I feel like last week we covered a movie that I really wanted to talk about with Society of the Snow because it was impactful to me. And I think this week

[00:04:14] we're covering a movie that you really wanted to cover. And so I'm excited to talk about this one after watching it today. There were just a lot of underlying themes that are so important,

[00:04:29] especially today with the way the world is. I think that it connects really well and explains things in a different way just from watching. And it kind of hits home some of those points that

[00:04:45] people seem to be grappling with out there. So I'm hoping our discussion we're going to touch on a lot of things. Well, we're not going to swear. Some of the discussions might be a little deep.

[00:04:59] And that's okay. And I really enjoy that when we podcast that we don't shy away from those things, that we have those deep conversations. I think that's part of the fun of podcasting is being

[00:05:12] able to talk about whatever you want, but also addressing deep social issues that need to be amplified. So with that said, we will start the way we always do with a few behind the scenes

[00:05:32] production notes. So this film, Nimona is based on the graphic novel of the same name by N.D. Stevenson. Peg, have you seen the graphic novel? I have not. After I watched it the first time,

[00:05:49] I did look it up on Amazon just to kind of... I'm not planning on buying it, but I was like, I'm curious. Let me see what's going on with it. So yeah, so I was made aware actually

[00:05:59] after watching it the first time that, yeah, oh, this is based on some kind of source material that seems to be pretty well loved by a lot of people. So that's pretty cool. So this movie has kind of a storied history because it was originally produced by Blue

[00:06:19] Sky Studios. It was initially slated to be released in 2020, but Walt Disney bought 21st Century Fox, which is the parent company for Blue Sky. And the project was eventually canceled when Blue Sky was closed out. However, Anna Perna Pictures revived it in the following year,

[00:06:44] tapping Nick Bruno and Troy Quinn as the directors. They used DNEG animation for the animation and secured the worldwide distribution through Netflix. So even though it seemed like things were dead in the water, it worked out and this movie got made and I'm glad that it did.

[00:07:06] Yeah. A lot of it was ready. Like they had put a lot of effort into it at the point where it was shut down. So it was released in theaters on June 23rd. However, it was released globally

[00:07:19] on Netflix on June 30th. So just a week later. So it had a very limited theatrical run and then it was on Netflix. 99 minutes long. I'm not sure. Is that the movie itself or the 15 minutes of

[00:07:35] credits that came at the end? Did you notice that? Right. Yeah, it was a lot of credits. It was a lot of fun animation stuff. And of course when your credit music is K-Flay in 30

[00:07:46] seconds to Mars. Yes. Yeah, we're happy. So I recognize K-Flay right away when that song came on and it's talking about a T-Rex and I'm down. You know I'm in for that. So it was really cool.

[00:08:00] So, Paik, bring us a synopsis. All right. Well, when a knight in a futuristic medieval world is framed for a crime he didn't commit, the only one who can help improve his innocence is Nimona, a mischievous teen who happens to be a shapeshifting creature.

[00:08:27] I really thought at first that this was going to be like an old-worldly knight story and it was not. No, not at all. I liked it. I liked that it looked like the Knights of the Round Table

[00:08:41] but it was so modern and upgraded that it was a lot more fun than I imagined it was going to be. I just wasn't sure. Going into this, I did not know what I was getting myself into.

[00:08:52] Yeah, there's a lot. This whole movie is just very metaphorical and allegorical. Everything means something. Even if it's just me really reading into things a lot. I don't have the directors or producers or writers or anything telling me that's what this meant.

[00:09:11] I dug very deep just in watching it, picking things out. So at least this is my opinion. Well, a lot of things that I say that I think were very purposeful for why they're done the

[00:09:23] way that they're done or shown. Which yeah, it's a medieval world. So yes, they're in the future even far more future than we're at now with the whole flying cars and all that whatever.

[00:09:37] But I think it purposely being like, yeah, it's a futuristic world but it's still very medieval with knights and dragons and all of these things is kind of what you see. And it's kind of an allegory or metaphor for they're still stuck in a really old-world mindset.

[00:09:55] Yes. There's a wall around the entire city. And there's focus on keeping monsters out and keeping the city safe. And again, it goes back to when you put those walls out to keep the monsters out,

[00:10:13] you might be keeping something else that's special out to. So you have to be mindful of that. It's good to try to protect yourself and to be cautious. But if you don't let the walls down just a little bit, like I said, you might miss out on something

[00:10:35] special. And so that just made me think of not just physical walls but those walls that we put up within ourselves when we're trying to protect ourselves when it comes to relationships. Like you don't want to get hurt so you keep the walls up.

[00:10:57] And that can be like friends, a partner, whatever. You're trying to protect yourself but you do. You could miss out on something really great if you just stick to your guns and just are stubborn and keep your walls up so high no one can get in.

[00:11:16] Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I thought a lot of the people in the communities or in the community on this movie, they had preconceived notions of certain things and that kept them from really understanding.

[00:11:34] Nimona. Yeah, love that. So yeah, there's a lot to get. So we could do our usual character stuff. Again, we'll talk about characters a lot of my notes. Like I said, I'm going to talk a lot

[00:11:49] about themes and the metaphors and a lot of what the meanings behind a lot of things are to me. I'm warning now, there's going to be moments where I'm going to get really preachy or feel like

[00:12:00] I'm kind of on the soapbox about like, but I feel like there's a lot of important things to say. I'm going to do my best to make it fun and I don't want to be aggressive and be like,

[00:12:09] that's why I hate you if you don't believe this. No, I'm not doing any of that. But I just hope that there's some eye-opening things that may be, although this movie is not subtle in any way.

[00:12:20] It isn't. I feel like it's pretty obvious what a lot of the things are that they're talking about. But just in case, I'm going to spell them out for you in some places and talk about

[00:12:30] what I think is important. Well, before we start, can I tell you something funny? No, I hate humor. I hate comedy in all forms. You know how in the office there's bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica? Well, I found my next one. It's Marsupio Mariachi Meatball.

[00:12:55] I heard that and that's where my mind went immediately. It's like, there it is. There's the new one. I don't think it will catch on as well, but man, it's good. Yeah. I really do like the music. Yeah. Okay. Dolly Rott's really was amazing.

[00:13:16] Yeah, that was so much. That song is great. It is. Even just like the little stick, I mean, they have Judas Priest. They have just that tiny little bit of brick in the law.

[00:13:29] Oh, it was, it's great. All I did, I think, for parts of the movie at first, I had to pause it so I could go find out what the song was so I could add it to my playlist. Yeah, it's a great soundtrack. Absolutely.

[00:13:43] For sure. All right, Pate, where do you, where do you want to start? Who do you want to start with? Because I honestly, my notes started with Ballastar and stopped and went to Nimona and just went.

[00:13:59] Right. Well, I feel like as far as the main overarching story, like yeah, Ballastar bold heart is a very important piece. And as far as what happens to him at the beginning, but I think, I mean, the title of the movie, titular character, it is Nimona.

[00:14:16] Nimona. And I think Nimona definitely has the biggest arc and gives me the most opportunity to talk about a lot of those things as well because it's the character of Nimona. So I honestly have the most to say about that. Okay, then I think that we,

[00:14:35] I think that we need to talk about Nimona, but I think we also need to mention, well, the catalyst for this movie how, but it's related to Ballastar. It's not related to Nimona. So I feel like we have, yeah.

[00:14:53] Either way, I mean, because we don't need to sum things up. I mean, as far as it's not a recap, if people are listening to this, hopefully they've watched the movie or they'll catch up.

[00:15:01] So maybe that is more of the story of Ballastar. I don't know. Of course, why does Nimona come to Ballastar? Well, yeah, Nimona is tracking him down because she kind of views him as a hero because of the situation where he was the street kid who, you know,

[00:15:20] was becoming a knight of this realm and that was always held just for those in high places, those who are descendants of Glorath and these high families and these other things. And so for this kid, Ballastar to be somebody with no royal or noble blood, no connections whatsoever,

[00:15:41] and the queen to find favor in him. And he's going to become this first knight that is to set forward this new idea and this new principle that anybody can be a knight.

[00:15:55] Anybody can be a hero. Anybody can be powerful. You don't have to be from a certain kind of bloodline or a certain person. Anyone who has it within them can become a hero.

[00:16:03] And that shook up the way that certain people thought. And so he was set up and the queen was killed making it look like he did it. He didn't do it. And so it's kind of this mystery of

[00:16:15] he's got to clear his name, he's got to kind of mend relationships and he wants to find out who it was that set him up. So while he's in his little hideaway trying to figure that out,

[00:16:25] that's where Nimona comes in, tracking him down because she thinks he really did kill the queen and she's like, yeah, you know, down with the system. She wanted to be his sidekick and I found that hilarious. Like she's a troublemaker, but she's also, you know,

[00:16:42] and she's super precocious. But she's also just this being that wants to fit in with somebody. Like she's all on her own. And through the flashbacks that we get through this movie,

[00:17:00] we really get to see how alone she has been because she's different. And that was one of the underlying themes that kept resonating with me is because someone is different. The first, you know, inclination is to beat them down, kill them, push them away, treat them like crap.

[00:17:26] And that's really sad because I can see that happening today with people just because they're not like a cookie cutter, quote, normal person. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot about, yeah, because with Nimona tracks down Ballester again thinking, oh, he's here to buck the system. That's what we're

[00:17:44] doing, you know, down with the system because the same system that was built, you know, spoiler to like close to the end of the movie flashbacks of her, this entire system was built and created

[00:17:56] out of blind hatred of her. Yeah. That are, you know, are them, Nimona, whatever this entity, this being, this thing that is Nimona, that whatever Nimona wants to be or identify as, whatever she feels up sums Nimona up that day. Of course right now, well, you know,

[00:18:18] pronouns got some people going to run away screaming, don't worry, it's safe, it's okay, we can talk about these things. And we have on this podcast before. Yeah. So that should be no surprise. Right. Because right now, so we will use the she her pronouns a lot talking

[00:18:32] about Nimona because kind of where Nimona is for most of this movie is this girl teenage girl version that she is really identifying with and being this is where she feels comfortable most

[00:18:44] of the time right here. Yeah, it's true. I mean, we learn that she she is a shapeshifter which can come in incredibly handy with some of the stuff that goes on in this movie. She's able

[00:18:56] to really help baluster out a bunch because of her shapeshifting abilities. It took me back to Dungeons and Dragons that we did a couple of weeks ago, like I went right back to that my

[00:19:10] mindset was okay, yeah, okay. Nimona cast wild shape. Yeah. Yeah. I could talk, I mean, the humor of this movie, especially between Nimona and baluster a lot of the jokes, visual gags and

[00:19:26] things that they say just top notch humor. And I'm not even I decided very early on I'm not even going to attempt or try to point out all the things that make me laugh in this movie because we

[00:19:37] don't have that kind of time but there was a point where she says I'm Nimona. And that makes me think of when Jeff is always asking us to explain what Bucky's is. It's like it's just a thing. It's yeah, you can't explain it and I feel like

[00:19:59] Nimona at that point feels like she doesn't need to explain anything about herself. Right. And doesn't mean to. I think that's kind of a big thing. We're going to sprinkle in a lot of baluster notes within so I think we'll compare or combine a lot of things.

[00:20:17] But because it's kind of a baluster note, but it is important for you're talking about like I'm Nimona is there is this running theme through a lot of especially the first half of the movie of baluster just doesn't understand like most people don't understand other people who are

[00:20:35] different in certain regards. You know when he's asked can you be you? She says I don't follow. He's like girl you but I'm not a girl. I'm a shark. You know it's very.

[00:20:46] It's so funny. This you know just what I am is what I am. You don't need an explanation. I don't owe you an explanation of my identity, what I choose to be who I am. Just accept it.

[00:20:58] Like why are you trying to box me into just being a girl? Like he says, you know he's trying to box because it's easier for him and it's easier for other people. He says it's less

[00:21:07] complicated and it makes me sit there and goes like it's a mirror to like even our society is like why do we as a society feel the demand or need to demand other people to be what we want them to be

[00:21:19] for our comfort. Yeah. You know and so it's like baluster sometimes people are just they don't understand and they need to learn or for others you have this institute in your life right? You

[00:21:32] have some kind of higher power or authority that tells you to refuse you know that people fall outside of the certain boxes that you are given and you just follow along with it. Whatever it may be

[00:21:46] but yes I like that just like I'm not a guy who's like can you be you? Well I am being me. It's like be be a girl and it's like but I'm not a girl. I'm I'm Nemona. That's what I am. I'm

[00:21:58] being me and I think that's really powerful for you know whether it is like gender nonconforming non-binary kind of people. It's like are you trying to tell me what to be? I'm me. That's

[00:22:11] be me. I'm me. Okay got it. And you know what in a life that's all you should need is to be yourself like it shouldn't be living up to other expectations. I mean there are general things

[00:22:25] like don't throw trash out your car window you know those ridiculous like not rules but you know kind of like yeah you know be a good person but be you. Right and so it's kind of

[00:22:41] throws in it's like you see Ballester kind of not understanding but he's not upset about it and I feel like again shine a light on our own society you find people who go oh this person is trans or

[00:22:53] this person is non-binary they identify as this or that or they're not whatever box that you think they should be that makes you comfortable and certain people react with so much anger with that.

[00:23:03] Well how dare they make a choice for their life that completely has nothing to do with me that makes me angry it's like well why question yourself why does it bother you what somebody else is

[00:23:14] doing let them be them like why why is it bothering you so much? Well I mean if you go back to why this country was settled in the first place it's because people were escaping religious persecution

[00:23:28] it's because people were trying to put them in a box and they decided no we want to be free to worship as we want to live as we want and so this country was settled on those values

[00:23:42] and that's what gets really frustrating at times is you look at society and it seems now that we're going backwards it's like we made all of this progress but now we're quickly going back to

[00:23:57] you know we need it to be like the 50s again. Right why is it important to shove people in little boxes? Yeah. Like let people be who they are you believe in freedom yeah it's freedom

[00:24:10] yeah it's freedom in general like and stop dictating and demanding how somebody lives their life and identifies their life in order to please you and make you more comfortable. Right. I get

[00:24:21] soapbox sorry but it's a lot of it um but that is a big theme of this movie absolutely. It is and I think it's apparent right from the beginning when we meet Ballester which

[00:24:34] we can talk about that in a bit but it's very apparent that this wasn't this animated film I didn't know what to expect going into it and so I just kind of went along for the ride

[00:24:49] and then I got halfway through and I was like I don't even know what to say about this. There's so much in my head right now just from the first half of it um yeah because

[00:24:59] I enjoyed the humor and you know me I am not about comedy. I have never been about comedy very few comedies do I like but this one I really I really liked. Yeah there's a lot of

[00:25:14] really great humor um yeah one particular line I really enjoyed is pineapple on pizza. Yeah because she's being a demon at that point so you know by her saying that she's really playing

[00:25:26] into being evil. No no no pig yes you cannot defend it. Those sound like the words of something that a really evil demon person would say so. No I get it. No. Namona is on my team so

[00:25:41] she is not a pineapple on pizza person or being. Hey even the most wonderful people have flaws it's okay. But you know I think he started to kind of start to care for her and I think when it really

[00:26:06] when the bond really like got solidified is when they were in the car trying to get away and all these arrows hit the car and the car is barely moving and they get out and there's an arrow in her leg and he's really concerned about it

[00:26:25] and so when he is taking the arrow out and it doesn't seem to phase her and that kind of blows his mind and he wraps it even ties like a little bow it just the care and that's when I think

[00:26:39] the bond that's when they really bonded I think he really bonded to her I think she was already bonded to him she was just trying to get his attention and talking a mile a minute

[00:26:54] making jokes and being silly and being fun. I mean she was you have to admit at time she was kind of a menace some of the stuff she was doing was a bit chaos but I liked seeing him bond with her

[00:27:10] and just kind of be he even got to be a bit protective of her at times and I liked that too. Yeah man you jumped all the way to the car you're going way ahead.

[00:27:24] I'm still caught up in like and so she met him because but that's fine because I have a lot of thoughts about things even that lead up to that. Like when she's breaking him out of the jail cell

[00:27:39] and she's saying well you're a villain so we got to stick together and he's like I'm not a villain I didn't and she has a line that is pretty important to me she goes once everyone sees you as a

[00:27:49] villain that's what you are they only see you one way no matter how hard you try and we realize later on I mean she knows this more than most people exactly she's dealt with this for literally a

[00:28:01] thousand years right. Yeah she hasn't it so sad because those flashbacks they don't show you everything at once it's like they go back a little bit and then back a little bit further

[00:28:15] and near the end it really goes back and you you get to see oh she's had a lifetime of being on her own because everyone's afraid of her what a terrible life that is that she has no friends

[00:28:30] she doesn't have people you know that have her back or or care for her and even worse they're scared of her so no one will even get close and the one person who did ended up

[00:28:45] turning on her because of all of the hysteria around her being what they call the monster. Yeah for being different yeah uh yeah but she's great breaking baluster out of

[00:29:04] a jail cell and just that whole thing again like I could break down the things that are funny but like you get I mean she's just chaos just breaking stuff I'm gonna break something he's like we gotta

[00:29:14] be quiet she's pushing stuff over and pouring coffee out and he's like why aren't you being quiet where are the guards oh she took care of them already uh and she's doing this because she's bored.

[00:29:25] Right that shape-shifting ability is yeah we learned that when they're escaping the guards and to break him out which maybe also breaks the castle yeah it kind of makes a bit of a mess

[00:29:37] metal uh but yeah he says she's bored but also aside from gravitating towards him for this like oh you're against the system that hates me maybe I have a companion in this mindset and somebody

[00:29:51] who has the same kind of goals but even at the most base level because he even kind of throws it back in her face later in kind of a painful way but it is true that she gravitates towards baluster because it's somebody that she can maybe

[00:30:08] relate to on this level of being ostracized by everyone else you know she says everyone hates you too you know it's it's someone else to commiserate with yeah she I think she thinks she has a chance

[00:30:22] at forming a relationship and maybe he won't be afraid of her but she can't get him to embrace the villainy that she wants him to she really wants him to embrace everything but she does finally strike a deal with him because he does realize that she's very useful

[00:30:43] the shape-shifting ability that she has is really helpful to be able to to talk to the people that he needs to to clear his name so she makes a deal with him that if they clear his name she's going to be his sidekick forever

[00:31:04] right you have to have you have to keep me around I you have to be my friend you can't just leave me alone anymore yeah which is again kind of sad but that's that's where she is and

[00:31:16] they do they go around trying you know that's and it kind of becomes this mystery you know who not really who done it but it is kind of the spy movie kind of thing where they've got to go around

[00:31:26] and you know find connections and interview people and talk and put the pieces together how do we find out who actually was behind the assassination of the queen who framed you how do we clear

[00:31:38] your name there's all these little mysteries that come about it as they they run around the kingdom doing these things and she just is pure chaos the whole time you know there's a tiny little things

[00:31:48] again she unplugged and breaks this like game that this little boy is riding on and playing and it's like one she just loves chaos so unplugging it making him cry is hilarious and fun she loves that but also it is because this game he's playing he's sitting

[00:32:04] here stabbing little monsters dragons and monsters and die die die this whole game was created again based off of this fairy tale this story that's been told generation after generation based on hatred and fear of her that has just become commonplace in this society so much that like

[00:32:22] it's just funny games for kids yeah that don't even realize that you know they have no idea of the people or the person or whatever that is being harmed by this and they're growing up generation after generation with these fairy tales it's continuing generational hate and fear

[00:32:43] because they don't know any different right they're just being taught this is what we believe this is what we fear this is what's wrong it's different we we don't like it we kill it because it's

[00:32:54] different yeah it sounds almost like a cult i did say it i did say it i mean i mean maybe it is the cult of gloria who is their mythical is this heroic figure yeah for their city and like you said it's

[00:33:21] been years and years and years of this story that's been passed on about how amazing she was and then we don't find out until later the connection that namona has to gloria and that really changes everything it kind of i think balister thought he was

[00:33:42] making headway in his efforts to clear his name and then it all goes back to namona and gloria in the past yeah yeah he he doesn't realize that all of that is

[00:34:02] is there because right now it is just i don't know who this this girl is who she you know why is she helping me but i'll i'll take it gets him out of some tight moments i love her impression of

[00:34:14] balister in the like subway this was so funny i you know it's a good distraction you know loiter i'm loitering and littering oh my heavens no oh and not the freestyle jazz that made me laugh

[00:34:30] because embersius is actually reviewing video of that and he's like he knows right away that that isn't balister it's like he doesn't like yeah but then namona returns and pizza rats

[00:34:46] themselves onto the train yes which is a great visual gag the pizza of course they had to include that i love it ah but yeah so many things uh going back i mean just i've said it but i have the

[00:35:00] note about it is it is a very queer film and not just queer representation as important that as it is but this is queer recognition and i think it is very much like surface level like i said they're

[00:35:14] not subtle um as it's talking about your recognition of the hard parts that you know of being someone who just wants to be happy in your own skin you know the hard parts of doing that the

[00:35:27] recognition of that that you know the constant attacks that are thrown at you and the fear you live in for just trying to exist so yeah it's a fun animated movie on netflix but i feel like

[00:35:39] if it helps one person realize that they've been wrong or view people differently you know with more love and compassion then it's a successful and powerful film to me i think so yeah i have to

[00:35:48] agree because there were moments that i was well i mean of course okay i shipped balister and embrosius right from the beginning i think i told you this before we started recording and

[00:36:03] getting to see that right at the beginning just made me take a step back and say okay so this is going to be so much more than an animated film about clearing someone's name it's going to be so

[00:36:19] much deeper and bigger so i had i changed my mindset like right away it was like okay yeah i need i'm the first time i watched it like you see them like they're like oh they're friends and they were roommates

[00:36:35] um and then it gets a little more like closer and i was like oh there oh this is gay stuff yeah awesome awesome good we need more of that in just like general entertainment and like stuff just

[00:36:48] yeah meditation is important yeah uh because and that's the great thing about like their relationship is it's not like yeah like there's a lot of queer recognition in this movie but their relationship is not even part of what they're talking about no like that's just second

[00:37:02] day that's just just normal part of what's going on it is and if you look at their backgrounds to you like balister is someone that the queen saw at a young age and wanted him to be a knight

[00:37:18] wanted him to be in the guard and that just wasn't something that ever happened but ambrosius is a direct descendant of gloroth so you're getting two people with two completely different backgrounds

[00:37:35] that have connected and it's so much more than just like this it's not about the physical relationship it's this ambrosius really knows balister like yeah he can pick out all the things you know that

[00:37:55] like we just said when namona is an impersonating balister he can tell right away he's like no no that's not him that's not him because he knows him so well and they've connected and you you don't get it

[00:38:08] and as you said it's secondary but you still can see in different ways the way they connected those two characters yeah that it's not always just it's not a blatant in your face it's

[00:38:24] kind of subtle at times these little ways of showing you how much they care about each other without having to put a sign up saying you know b loves a yeah and i liked that because and because

[00:38:40] it wasn't the main part of the story there was so much more beyond it yeah again like namona title of the movie yeah carrying a lot of of the story but then again the allegory the metaphor

[00:38:57] but just very important in her own story here in this movie i love while they're on the train and there's this her backstory playing out on like the subway tile wall was really cool that's

[00:39:09] a really cool like choice yeah visually i thought was really fun uh and it's mostly true what you know she's telling she's i mean as we see like her trying to fit in and wanting to be something

[00:39:23] more and all these things although i think she starts the story was saying she was a little girl i don't think so i think she was just this wisp of magical energy yeah it was that eventually

[00:39:33] became a little girl because that was the identity that like she was comfortable with and that she found solace in and found friendship in and found care and love but uh you know but but other than that like a lot of this story was mostly true

[00:39:50] other than she still had to end it with a little jab at balister because he's still stuck in this mindset that she needs to explain herself to him to justify her identity and so the small-minded

[00:40:03] questions right yeah and so that's where she still gets that little jab and you know and all of that is like and i got one wish from as well and i wished to one day be on a train with a man

[00:40:15] asking me small-minded questions you know that made me laugh because i didn't expect it and i should have but it was still kind of early on in the movie i think that she as much as he drove her crazy

[00:40:32] with his questions she drove him equally as crazy with her antics yeah but i think that that she really connected with him as you said earlier because she looked at him as a villain

[00:40:48] and ostracized so shouldn't she be able to find a friend in someone who is going through the same things that she is but then she does agree to help him because she wants to know

[00:41:02] that he's gonna be there forever she wants to know she can count on him and and we see his growth a lot like i mentioned the small-minded questions that comes up again with

[00:41:14] the scene that you had mentioned with the arrow in her leg yeah and i like that you know does it hurt and she's like it feels kind of stabby in the leg region he's like no and you know i'm not

[00:41:23] talking about the arrow at that point but he's he's questioning about her shape shifting and things and then he cuts himself off he goes sorry small-minded questions like he's learning he's understanding yeah but then because she sees that it's not coming from a place of

[00:41:36] you just you need to explain to me right but it's coming from true care and curiosity and wanting to understand her yeah not demanding not for her his comfort but to know her better

[00:41:48] yes and at that point that's where she she gives him a real answer and talks about this shape shifting which again very important lines in this movie uh me personally i have never

[00:42:02] felt any kind of dysmorphia about gender or identity or anything so i'm not one to speak on it personally i am very much a cis male like that's just and that's that's my idea

[00:42:14] that's where i'm at and so i can't speak on it personally but i feel the way that namona explains her shape shifting is very apt i feel like i could talk i have non-binary and trans friends that i

[00:42:27] almost feel like i could go to be like what to tell me like how well is that how well is that done so maybe i will i'll hear from from some people but you know just her summing it up with like

[00:42:36] honestly i feel worse when i don't do it like it feels like that speech was very poignant yeah and you're right he's he's starting to evolve because instead of being demanding he's just almost just asking her to help him understand by asking questions that are more thoughtful

[00:42:58] and less you know interrogating to her because i feel like that's one of the issues you know even in society is people are just so quick to interrogate someone or have a higher tone or

[00:43:15] it's it's not always what you're asking it's what how you're asking it if you're using a tone that is seems like it's attacking the person no one's gonna want to answer your questions if you're

[00:43:32] doing that you've got to come at it from a point of can you help me understand can you share with me your story how how you got to be the the person you are it's about compassion

[00:43:49] and i think that that was one of the things that i saw grow so much in baluster was his compassion his level of compassion that he had towards namona and i appreciated that i appreciated how they told it this movie

[00:44:08] it was so much about the story but it was also how the story was told like how things were laid out and that it wasn't easy like it wasn't just the simple black and white movie like and by black

[00:44:24] and white i don't mean color i mean here's the line here's the story it's black and white there's no gray areas yeah i like that this was a bit complicated at times because yeah yeah it really

[00:44:40] i think it was more truthful yeah just even in little things like there's throw away lines that if you really look at the theme of the movie are they hold weight uh her deciding to like turn into this

[00:44:53] little boy to get you know to the squire but even that it's funny it's played for comedy but there's still just a little throw away line where he's like you know you can't be that

[00:45:05] you can't have the wings you can't do this i need you to be what makes me more comfortable it's he's still kind of stuck in that way and so she becomes this like little toddler and again throw away line

[00:45:14] she goes and now you're a boy and she goes i am today like it's just yeah she just changes like she's comfortable being almost being an enigma like just being completely fly by the

[00:45:28] seat of her pants just be who i am what i need to be at that given time i can do whatever i'm flexible i'm you know and he doesn't get that i'm namona that's all you don't need me to give any extra no

[00:45:44] pronouns or adjectives or describers just namona that's all it's all you need to know and i love that you know namona the sweet little boy turns into agro demon little boy which is very funny uh

[00:46:04] so how i knew you were gonna do that um yeah yeah when they go to that that's that poor squire is gonna startle at the site of every toddler he sees for years um because every time

[00:46:16] namona would calm down if he got the least bit relaxed she was just like at him with with the demon voice and he's just like i'm sorry we kidnapped you or am i

[00:46:34] i love that he got at her baluster got her to try his way and then when things didn't go well it's like okay we're gonna break stuff now and i love that they did that a couple of times them being at odds

[00:46:48] of like the you know it's like if anybody comes we kill them hide we hide you know but we see those or even when they're like talking to the squire where it's just like and then we're gonna start you

[00:46:56] know you don't if you don't start talking we're gonna start stabbing it's like no no no it was it was very april and andy vibes you know someone's gonna die oh fun maybe that's why

[00:47:08] i liked it maybe that's why i really liked it because they reminded me of that uh man i i tried to think of what do i have a friend that it's like that that we're at odds i mean not to that that level

[00:47:21] but that were and i don't think i do but i enjoy watching it play out like it's it's kind of humorous to watch the two of them kind of become a team basically mm-hmm yeah like yeah and then you mentioned

[00:47:36] yeah finally when his way is not working then oh you want to know what what what she is you want to know all right break yeah like he said and i a theme that i pulled out something that like so this

[00:47:50] isn't even a quote from the movie so if it is really poignant then you can quote me and i'll feel special and if not then definitely said it no i'm kidding uh um but no i thought about it

[00:48:01] whenever she's she's fighting all the guards or all the knights and there's innocent standard buys that are you know freaked out by the whole thing and then of course she's

[00:48:13] sold her soul is crushed by this little girl who's terrified of her but it kind of was like how do you compare this to like real life with with people that this is like an allegory for

[00:48:24] or and what i thought of was it's hard to prove that you aren't a monster or the bad guy when every day is a fight to survive as yourself against those who are attacking you when those are the people

[00:48:36] you're trying to prove it to opaque that's wow it's true and it is about survival because i feel like a lot of times it's a life and death thing and it shouldn't be i mean we're talking about human beings is what we're talking about we're not talking about

[00:49:00] murderers i guess like i mean murderous human beings yes but you know what i mean yeah i mean we're talking about people who are just trying to live their life life and there are just people that are so focused on not letting them live the way that they

[00:49:19] choose to yeah and so this is like oh you're you know oh well you're overly you know vindictive or you're aggressive or you oh it goes both ways you know you hate

[00:49:33] other people for having their beliefs and it's like it's hard not to paint yourself as a villain sometimes because you have to stand up for yourself and you have to fight back and when the people

[00:49:42] you're fighting against are the people you're trying to prove that you are a good person and that you deserve to belong you know where how do you balance what is that balancing act of proving

[00:49:54] that you deserve to be there while also fighting for your spot and they're not like you fighting back you know right i think because sometimes it's just easy like i grew up in a small town

[00:50:07] and a lot of times it's just easy to conform and do what everybody else is doing just because that's what's expected and it's easier but since i've moved away and i live more in a metropolitan area

[00:50:21] it's become very clear to me that you can be who you there are places there is a world out here where you can be who you are and it's okay and you can be supported and there are people that will

[00:50:35] love you and find your people find your people and sometimes it takes a while and like i said about the walls keep i know that you want to keep them up but sometimes you've got to be vulnerable

[00:50:53] and sometimes you've got to lower those walls down and take a chance because you will find your people it just may not be the first group of people that you talk to are the first people

[00:51:04] that you talk to it might take you a little longer but when you when you do find them you'll know yeah and it's an incredible feeling to know that you're with the people that have your

[00:51:17] back no matter what and accept you for who you are no matter what they don't expect you to be somebody else yeah i feel like namona has been trying her whole life to find someone that would

[00:51:29] accept her for who she is and i feel like baluster in some cases has also because it's very clear that the knights in training at the institute didn't like him didn't think he belonged so he's

[00:51:48] been going through the same thing he was an outsider he was an outlier from the beginning as well yeah and when you're outside and you see all these things going on on the inside you

[00:51:58] start to wonder you know will that ever happen for me like will i ever get to know what it's like i think namona had just about given up maybe yeah there's it gets gets a little heavy you know i talked about that scene there's a happy or not

[00:52:18] really happy but uh at least fun thing to me i was just like you know she's had many great forms to shift into but a giant serial spewing dragon is pretty high up there on the list oh my god

[00:52:29] but but then yeah that leads to what i was talking about is that really kind of heavy moment as like i said is how do you prove you're not a monster when the people you're trying to prove

[00:52:36] it to you have to fight for your survival against and yeah that's what's going on in that scene and you know we see with that little girl like i mentioned she's used to adults fearing her

[00:52:47] and hating her stuck in their ways fine you know just another day just another adult used to it but it's when the children are afraid of her because that's what they were taught to do

[00:53:00] yeah that's what soul crushing that that's what hurts her and we've been talking about like this has been a generational thing that's continued over and over and over again kids it's like a cycle of

[00:53:14] the parents learn it as children then they pass it on to their kids and they pass it on to their kids so it's it's true it's how it is it's it's you know fact as far as they're concerned

[00:53:27] hatred is taught and so she's so just crushed and affected by that situation that that's when they go back to the hideout and then she has the line that hits me the hardest in this movie

[00:53:45] just the most poignant line but where she says to baluster yes i don't know what's scarier the fact that everyone in this kingdom wants to run a sword through my heart or that sometimes i just want to let them that broke my heart it broke my heart

[00:54:02] which made what happened near the end so poignant because it was like he knew and he was stopping it and yeah i couldn't believe you know i just didn't know what how this was gonna end because sometimes these animated films end with a happy sad moment

[00:54:29] like no no please don't don't do that what i think you're doing right which yeah i'll get to that got definitely have thoughts i have a lot if you think i'm done tying things and things

[00:54:45] and being kind of preachy i'm just oh my god uh i've got a lot to say with this one uh i just feel like you know just where we are like i'll be very real like again i'm not trying

[00:54:58] to offend anyone or trying to like what i have to say is more important than what other people believe but like it's important to me and maybe people will listen to this and go ah whatever

[00:55:09] you know he's just some bleeding heart liberal socialist whatever and move on but then you know maybe something i have to say will mean something to somebody and that's all i can hope for uh is

[00:55:22] it's yeah it's just i feel like there's a lot of important things that i want to say that yeah well but but you know in a lot of the movies that we cover on this podcast it's usually something bad is happening to people there's like a disaster there's

[00:55:41] um a creature there's it's a horror movie sometimes movies like this come along that give us an opportunity to talk a little bit more about something that we're one or both of us is passionate about again it might like ruffle some feathers but i don't

[00:56:02] mean it to me that way it's like right now this is an election year we're early in an election year so we know what's coming down the road for us right like we don't have to pretend we don't

[00:56:12] know what's coming and so i feel like maybe getting comfortable with talking about acceptance and understanding and letting people be who they are and understanding people is an important concept and conversation

[00:56:27] right now it really is and i think that we have as a society in some cases people have just completely shut down to being able to communicate with other people who don't share their beliefs

[00:56:44] and i think life in general is about growing and evolving and adapting and learning and and probably the next eight months six to eight months are a big opportunity for people to learn

[00:56:59] and grow but you have to be open to it and i think that that's the one thing that i'm not sure about right that's the things you've got to be willing and open and as we see here people just kind of

[00:57:15] get stuck in their walls and they're generational this is the way things are and and don't never will open up to it and maybe on the other side of that you just have to be okay

[00:57:26] with that too sometimes is know that you know that's just the way it's going to be sometimes and you do your best to find the people you can connect with yeah it's interesting i was on

[00:57:36] another podcast because i have another podcast and one of the things we talked about is just because we do the way things the way or believe things the way that they've always been

[00:57:48] doesn't mean that that's the way it should be now and that you have to reevaluate and not just takes take a route because it's the easiest one sometimes it means taking a different road

[00:58:04] and it might be a little more difficult and you might have to grow and sometimes growth is painful like it just is but if you do it and you open yourself up to it you can learn so much

[00:58:17] and again it goes back to the walls let the walls down just a little bit and you might have something special come into your life you just have to you know not be afraid i know it's hard not

[00:58:32] to be afraid but you really i mean you don't want to miss out on something that can enhance your life absolutely so there are so many people out there that i just wish you just let the guard down

[00:58:47] a little bit yeah man we're getting real speachy and inspirational and it's good it's great but back to the movie for a second no uh just there's a lot to like still talk about but oh my god we will

[00:58:58] and we will we will get back to that mode soon i'm sure but to move things along for me so we'll do three hours later because i'm looking for a note um

[00:59:11] you know they have that moment where he really sees you know sees namona where she is when she says that like this is somebody who is in pain for you know he doesn't know it's been that many years and

[00:59:22] years and years but like her existence has just been fighting for her right to exist for people to accept her for trying to say you know i'm not just this monster that shouldn't be here that

[00:59:32] doesn't belong and so he is there to cheer her up in that moment he still falters and i think that's an important thing is like when people find somebody that they connect to when they find allies when they

[00:59:45] find those people those people aren't going to be perfect baluster screws up several times oh my gosh yeah he snaps at her he says the wrong thing he turns on you know he these thoughts and

[00:59:57] things that were indoctrinated into him come back up and rear their ugly head and it hurts her but he's trying and that's what's important because he's continually growing yeah and and it takes that humans are complex flawed different difficult to understand sometimes

[01:00:18] we all have our own quirks we all have our own um beliefs but i think she they through everything that they're going through they start i think it just makes it stronger yeah i think their connection

[01:00:34] just continues to grow stronger because of everything that they go through even the snapping and the fighting and the silliness and the antics and all of those things i think they just continue to

[01:00:46] grow together yeah they end up working well as team the first time he really calls her his sidekick is they come up with this awesome plan they get the director's confession you know with her shape-shifting she pretends to be ambrosius and goes in and confronts the director

[01:01:04] who would have happily murdered ambrosius as we see to keep things as they were yes to keep the status quo to glorify glorith right yep that's that's what it's about and they're able to get that confession and really see that side of the director

[01:01:21] and then the real ambrosia sees the sword in there afterwards and it starts his spiral towards towards the truth he has to go on a little bit of a journey himself too but but he gets there eventually uh and then they celebrate uh they got the confessions uploaded

[01:01:37] the kingdom sees it people are you know celebrating with with the dance party and board games and zombie movies it's it's a perfect celebration the dancing was amazing like the dance time that

[01:01:48] they had i loved it can a shark dance yes and that song that they play gold guns girls by metric is the name of the song was a lot of fun i i just thought that they the music that they picked

[01:02:03] you know when the music becomes a character that's when you know the music is good and i feel like that was the case in this they did such a great job with it during that little

[01:02:13] dancey montage scene we get the moment where you know uh baluster opens the door and amona standing outside with the pizza box shape shifted into the director to scare him and even though it's

[01:02:26] kind of a little joke it is a foreshadowing of exactly what the director ends up doing in order to get out of this situation you know by saying it was a deep fake no uh by saying

[01:02:39] kind of mean yeah but in a way she's like the well the monster clearly shape shifted into me to spread a lie and to slander my good name and to undermine all the great things that we are

[01:02:51] doing and working on you know even if it isn't true and then people start to believe it and that again is yeah not going down and that's yeah but then so with that and then this whole

[01:03:06] shape shifting thing baluster meets up with ambrosius we'll talk about that but because of because of those things yeah that fear that was instilled in baluster kind of rears back up and he questions namona and so between him not trusting her again in that moment and and

[01:03:22] questioning her in an accusatory way and in an aggressive way that plus then todd and the other knights had followed him and had found where she was she she runs she's alone again and she goes over the wall back out to the well as she told the story

[01:03:43] and then that's where we get the true full story of of namona of gloria the the evil that this kingdom has been scared of for this whole time that might not be so evil after all

[01:03:56] yeah namona had this relationship with gloria they were buddies they hung out together they did all these fun things and gloria gloria seemed to accept her when she turns into the bird when she's

[01:04:13] grabbing something she looks up at her and it seems like she's scared but then she accepts her and they just go and do all these things together but the adults see her as a threat as a monster and they yeah basically it just goes to show they

[01:04:34] changed gloria's opinion of namona yeah so that she wanted to kill her and she thought she was a threat and then it becomes a crusade yeah and it was very they take this young

[01:04:49] gloria and you know with their authority their views their things that they have over her they turn her against namona that well you see what this monster has done you see what they've caused

[01:04:58] you see and yeah so again little speechy moment um we've seen where the story goes from there you know generation after generation those beliefs get deeper the fear of something different grows it you know builds from something you know not seen before or understood into something that's

[01:05:20] sinister and evil and dangerous that that threat keeps growing just based off of one little thing and it you know without somebody or someone to break that cycle to change people's perspectives it just becomes the way of the world but you know again to kind of jump

[01:05:41] to the end of the movie now that i've turned this into a speech uh you know in conclusion we do see how that kind of can work out if you want to make kind of again a metaphor to it is

[01:05:51] finally somebody took some initiative whether it's namona herself and then with balister there but you challenge you know they finally took the initiative to challenge the powers that be to to awaken others up to see the real truth to force the real evil in the situation to

[01:06:04] expose itself and afterwards you know then growth and the kingdom can begin people can change progress can be made the future starts to look a little brighter right but it's it's but it's after generations

[01:06:18] and generations yeah of fear that's been instilled like you said it was like that's something different instead of understanding it well we'll set our whole village on fire and then blame it

[01:06:28] mm-hmm yeah i mean that's what it takes it just takes honestly little lies that build up over time because this whole kingdom this whole city this whole the knights the ritual of nighting people

[01:06:43] and this whole bloodline and all this it's all a lie you know glorith didn't banish evil she turned her back on a friend yeah she didn't vanquish a monster her she ran somebody off who trusted and loved her it's incredibly sad i mean because you look

[01:07:02] at how far back that that was and know that namona has been on her own trying to relate and trying to connect with somebody not just people animals like she's just trying to connect

[01:07:15] and no one will have anything to do with her and at this point namona is pushed way too far over the edge and she shape shifts into something that we hadn't seen

[01:07:31] yeah well you tell someone that they're a monster or whatever else you tell them they are long enough they're gonna believe it eventually that's how they're gonna see themselves yeah uh of course then in this moment it made the attack on the kingdom it really isn't even that

[01:07:47] you see all the destruction the the body like the the burning buildings and all the things they're causing it themselves they came in attacking her this this creature whatever it is was just walking down the road i don't think any destruction was actually done by namona except

[01:08:03] for her smashing the one like building with the tv screen because there's this commercial with kill the monsters kill the monsters and it's just in her head every day all her life

[01:08:14] but it's the rest of the destruction is the knights the soldiers the things shooting at her attacking her because her her true action here the reason that she's here it's not to go on a rampage it's not

[01:08:28] to to destroy and get back at these people who've done her wrong but it's it's one that's much more heartbreaking much more desperate uh and an allegory for a true epidemic that that really exists for people who are demonized for their identities way too often in this world

[01:08:46] it's this idea of kind of like that line that she said with the sword and the heart she's like if nobody wants me to exist then all right i will cease to do so let them see that they've won

[01:08:58] so sad and you think that it's going to happen and i didn't know for sure i didn't know what was gonna happen like this was my first time watching it so she's getting closer and closer to the statue of gloria and it didn't hit me till

[01:09:15] she's almost there it's like she's gonna impale herself she's gonna do it and she's about there and almost going to do it and baluster stands on the edge of the sword and puts his hand out

[01:09:33] to keep her from doing it yeah and again here's me really digging into some meanings and allegories and i'm trying to be poetic with my words but his actions here in those times of dark despair

[01:09:49] when you are nothing but a black cloud of sadness takes one person one person who sees you as the light that you really are within sees you for you not how others see you or perceive you

[01:10:02] but accepts you and sees you and that one person can change everything and give you a reason to go on another day you know to see that in fact there is goodness acceptance love compassion

[01:10:15] they do exist and there is something to hold hope onto yeah and he keeps her from doing that from from taking her own life and then they're back to be in sidekicks again like best buddies

[01:10:33] they have to stop the director from destroying the city and namona she goes on her own it's time to break stuff gotta break stuff you know honestly if this had not been animated

[01:10:53] i mean i feel like they they missed an opportunity to play break stuff except that it's not it's an animated film so it probably wouldn't fit however i think it could have been fun

[01:11:07] yeah but she goes and in attempting to stop the director there's this huge explosion and namona turns into this these flecks of energy and that takes me back to something you said earlier that maybe that's what she is maybe she is flecks of energy maybe she's just energy

[01:11:35] you know we don't really know what her true form is right but at least to balister into those watching at that moment it seems like she just sacrificed herself to save the kingdom

[01:11:51] you know and and with that you know the destruction of the gun destruction of the director the wall also crumbled and fell there was a destruction of the wall the one thing that the director feared the most right talking about her nightmares of the wall cracking and crumbling

[01:12:05] down and it did but what was her fear you know what was on the other side of that wall was it was it monsters and and danger or was it just a more beautiful world it's a beautiful

[01:12:18] world you know more people yeah with different lives so much more to experience than the little scared life within the walls that the institute had built around themselves you know there wasn't

[01:12:30] any monsters on the other side of the wall there was just more life more world yeah more i think the director really liked keeping everything contained in that city because they control it

[01:12:43] and make it what they wanted it to be which is you know continuing this story of glorith and raising children in the way of being scared of the outside world you'll be afraid of what you

[01:12:56] don't understand or you don't know about it could be the coolest thing ever but be afraid of it like don't don't venture out don't go beyond the wall yeah but then with the wall

[01:13:10] blown down in this new perspective life it changes everything for the kingdom you know yeah nomona is a hero now we have all like the kids drawing pictures and things even todd even Todd brought

[01:13:23] even dummy Todd has had a change of heart how many times i wrote Todd sucks five or six times fake i had to back then it was just oh so great with that oh my gosh

[01:13:40] but yeah but her existence as she really was was what made the kingdom better mm-hmm right she kind of saved people from themselves in in a way at least saved them from this oppressive protector end quotes that they had and unfortunately again let's tie it back

[01:14:02] to like some heavy stuff in real life sometimes in real life it does take tragedy to finally see a real hero for what they were or are you know i think i feel like that's kind of what that was

[01:14:15] here yes balster goes back to his bachelor or pad like i don't know man cave yeah he goes back to his man cave and starts bruising things up a little bit and just you know clearing away all of his other

[01:14:39] stuff he doesn't need anymore and just you know making it habitable i guess he gets a knock at the door and goes to answer it and there's nothing or no one there

[01:14:54] or is or is there is namona really gone hey boss uh which yeah uh and again this is based on a graphic novel which i have not read uh so maybe there is more to this story that i don't know uh

[01:15:11] whether they even plan on doing any kind of sequel stuff or more with this i don't know or it's just go to the graphic novel for those answers i don't know if there's yeah i don't know

[01:15:21] i didn't do i didn't see anything but that's not i mean that's not a surprise like mm-hmm so yeah i think that oh it took quite a while but yeah that's a big bulk of it

[01:15:40] but i think that covers pretty much namona it does the end the rebeginning um yeah i think maybe she just respond i don't know maybe not mm-hmm i like to think that she

[01:15:55] respond she was a fun character because she was kind of like driven by chaos and i think i'm the opposite of that so it's kind of fun to see someone just run amok and do what they want

[01:16:10] because i'm much more structured so i you know when you're watching a movie sometimes it's fun to watch characters that act differently than you would yeah so do you have any other

[01:16:23] notes on balister yeah um i'm sure i've got a few and again some of them are just talking about things but most of them i've talked about i kind of sprinkled a lot of stuff in but uh so let's see

[01:16:35] little things uh since this was my second time watching it actually i watched it just as part of my oscar watch a while back um i did notice that early in the movie before his like nighting

[01:16:47] ceremony before the queen is killed the squire was trying to show balister the video on his before the nighting yes uh but was interrupted by todd being Todd uh well i thought honestly

[01:16:59] i thought he wanted to get a selfie with him at first and then it's like no i guess that's what he was trying to do is to show him the video mm-hmm uh but yeah so the balister set up has

[01:17:10] to flee go into hiding as a wanted man uh when they're breaking out of jail you know they run into ambrosius which is a funny because it's of course it's like those little humor moments where

[01:17:23] he's just like he's being sarcastic he's like yeah sure murder him murder them murder everyone and there's ambrosius standing there and it's like oh god of course worst timing but what he's most crushed about in these moments is this break in the relationship between him and ambrosius

[01:17:41] of course there's a lot of going on you know being wrongly accused and in hiding and all that stuff sucks yes but it's the fact that his his boyfriend this person that he's been so close to

[01:17:50] and loves him so closely he sees this look in his eyes of he's fearing him and not trusting him at that moment and that's what devastates him yeah because they were very close and as we've talked

[01:18:02] about they knew each other so well that it's painful when you think someone that you've let in and thinks that you're somebody that you're not it hurts yeah arm chopping is not a love link

[01:18:18] oh my god that's another thing for your soundboard put that on a t-shirt or a coffee mug probably something somewhere uh and then i question again after they they talked with the squire

[01:18:35] you're like why didn't the squire say something to anyone all this time he had the video about what the director did like after the queen died wouldn't he want to be like um here's what happened

[01:18:46] and so you want it why didn't the squire say anything until now when uh balusters is questioning him and then it's oh it's the same reason that balister won't make this video public at first

[01:18:56] when namona's asking about it it's this blind faith in the institute yeah things that are there you know oh we should cover up the dirty parts of one person or some people's actions so we can

[01:19:09] protect the system that we're so comfortable with hmm what does that's what does that sound like you know for the greater good the greater good yeah yeah um but yeah i think that's pretty much

[01:19:25] all for balister because then i covered a lot of the other thoughts earlier especially you know my thoughts of him his actions and saving her being in there yeah oh my gosh

[01:19:37] like of course you're gonna be there and do that of course you have to do that because you love her she's your sidekick you have to do it um speaking of namona and her monstrous form

[01:19:50] it's kind it's it's actually completely different than it was in the graphic novel because they wanted to make her character be more sympathetic or peaceful than terrifying so you made her like this black gaseous cloud-like creature because in the comic it's more like

[01:20:11] she's like some cross between a frog and a whale and it just looks like creepier i guess i haven't seen it um in in the graphic novel balister's last name was blackheart not boltheart and he was more

[01:20:28] villainous um and he was actively trying to take down the institution um and he had lost his arm in a duel with um ambrose ambrosius um not from them disarming him so this is a little bit different

[01:20:54] i will say i did love that namona was calling him evil larry couple of times i thought that was funny yeah you have other notes i've got notes i've got ambrosius stuff and then i have a note

[01:21:08] section on like the director and the institute and some more which is more just me kind of like pulling some of those little things up i'll try to oh please go for it yeah so ambrosius first

[01:21:21] i just want to talk about him ambrosius golden loin uh what a name uh of course ambrosius voiced by the most fabulous and culinarily evil tri guy that there is yin yang uh i love you gene

[01:21:37] so i think this is fantastic for him that he he deserves all the good things yujin is is good people so it's good to see him getting a cool voice acting role in a big oscar nominate a movie uh

[01:21:48] it's a big step for just a youtube guy huh love you gene so it was cool to see uh yeah there when they're at the nighting ceremony of course ambrosius turns and everybody loves ambrosius like he goes here comes the woo and i was like okay rick

[01:22:07] maybe he's had too many energy drinks um ambrosius taking the lead on finding balister of course he wants to do things as civil as possible but also he fears for the safety of the man that he loves or loved uh things are very complicated right yeah relationships are

[01:22:28] yeah uh but then whenever they're there at the market when balister and amona steal the car and all the craziness is going on ambrosius had the moment that he he had the the shot

[01:22:40] with the crossbow and he couldn't pull the trigger he couldn't take it there is something that was still within him that knew that balister is good that's that's not him uh and we just see

[01:22:51] him being deeply conflicted throughout the rest of this movie like he has this whole arc of his own he's you know the training and having to do right by the institute that he's been brought up

[01:23:03] to almost like this indoctrination it's it contradicts the person that he knows balister is you know do you do you turn your back on a system that's given you everything that's a hard task to do especially when you're so heavily indoctrinated but

[01:23:18] he there is something in him that says no there's there's something more and then when he meets up with balister he completely misses the mark uh believing yeah oh yeah balister he totally innocent but he's still indoctrinated by this institute where he's like but it's the monster

[01:23:33] that's it's the one that's different that has an agenda to manipulate you into doing evil but you think it's good that's after your children wait no that's not a part of this that's another thing

[01:23:43] that this is talking about um but yeah so that's what he's like oh oh yeah of course you're a good person but you're just you're letting those things manipulate you and think

[01:23:52] you're doing good but really you're doing evil uh you know of course let's take some really old really vague relic to base our understanding of everything on you know make sure it's super easy

[01:24:04] to misunderstand and translate whatever way that feeds fits your narrative uh and we don't we have no idea how the story grew and changed over the years right uh but you know his whole arc

[01:24:17] going through those things and he's like you see him pulling and against this institute and his training in this indoctrination and the ways that things have been for so long and i love that like

[01:24:28] one of his final lines in the movie is to the director finally when she's like fire the cannon he says no it's over and he says and what if we're wrong what if we've always been wrong

[01:24:41] yeah you it's so much deeper than an animated movie yeah it really is um then i don't know what other notes you have but then yeah so i'm trying to go through quickly uh so the director institute

[01:24:55] stuff like that uh again just this movie is so chock full of allegory and stuff that this tail carried on for generations pump generations the evil that was fought against and defeated by glorith

[01:25:06] and all it is is just something that's different and misunderstood and then feared uh fears taught pass down for generations until the fear of that thing keeps people from experiencing anything different from the comfort inside their walls even to where entire organizations are built and dedicated

[01:25:22] to preaching against that evil and it's dangerous and a lot of things that sound very familiar things i've experienced in life uh years of tradition and dictating that the warriors must be protectors and descendants of glorith but this time it's different there's an outsider

[01:25:40] a street kid of no noble blood that's being trained and eventually knighted or is supposed to be but the powers that be oversee the status quo the director here just can't let someone different

[01:25:51] within the fold different is dangerous you know you let one thing change and it's a slippery slope many times you hear that too many times well this would lead to this so we did that and

[01:26:04] the next thing you know yeah uh just a little fun thing the announcers at the beginning of the movie with like the news broadcast talking about balister and stuff the the male voice

[01:26:14] the announcers was ru paul so yes uh it's not what glorith wanted that's a little on the nose important things should be shown for the ridiculous things they are through light stories sometimes uh when balister is about to be knighted and the director says

[01:26:34] today the kingdom will see you for who you really are in retrospect that's ominous yep uh didn't go exactly how she thought it was gonna go mm-hmm the director's just so evil yeah which is why i have to give so much props to francis

[01:26:50] conroy for doing a voice acting job oh my god that was so amazing i had to look it up because i i thought it was her voice but i wasn't sure and then i looked it up and it's like wow

[01:27:02] yeah because i don't really think of hers like voice acting too much but it was very good yeah she had very calm but menacing tone it became more menacing as time went on

[01:27:15] yeah of course talked about back Bennett doing the voice of Todd uh this airheaded hembo uh who has a great running gag of just never being able to let go of the whale thing

[01:27:26] what about the whales? yeah the whales tiny whale whale hurry before the whale show up uh it was one whale it was one whale okay man that was great and then of course if we're gonna go

[01:27:40] into allegory of okay so what's the kind of person that Todd is uh exhibiting is standing in for i feel Todd falls under the category of people who are too immature to understand and accept people's differences uh instead you they they view themselves as someone who's likable funny

[01:27:59] and cool because they can gain attention from their peers for their ability to mock and belittle people who are different and they find their identity in that personality you know aka

[01:28:09] half of any facebook comment section uh oh i've seen you in there i get it i i don't get a notification but something pops up and it's like oh boy what is fake said now is he going to facebook

[01:28:23] jail uh rhinoporous we need someone who's born for this i was born um hey i'm gonna need a big sword and three i'm because this guy passed night training yeah did he pass elementary school i don't

[01:28:40] kindergarten let's go back to kindergarten right uh of course oh they're just like little not really snarky but just things i notice in here you know the the don't be alarmed alarm right

[01:28:54] we have your best interest in mind let the institute tell you what to believe and what to fear because as long as you're fearing something we can guide that fear to accomplish our goals

[01:29:02] uh and thankfully the squire you know thanks to him for wanting to be a tiktok star with a crush on balister because now we have the video evidence the director swapped the swords again that evidence that doesn't really come into play uh but it was enough for balister

[01:29:19] he knew i mean he got to see that he figured out you know he got at least he knew who he was up against at that point because before that he really didn't know yeah and could talk to ambrosius

[01:29:32] and plant those seeds yeah well it's while he's talking to ambrosius there at the uh the bar nachos uh no director comes on tv and has the whole like oh i was it was you know the monster

[01:29:45] sheep shifting pretending to be me the monster did that and then ah the classic you can't trust anyone approach you know uh could be your neighbor your brother your sister your friend and it just

[01:29:54] keeps people from talking to each other yep it segregates people and keeps them separate from each other right and then like the last note about that we talked about like the big gun you

[01:30:07] know in in trying to rid themselves of this monster this unsightly horrific beast that they want no part of the derailleur the director is willing to kill ever yeah other innocent people you know

[01:30:21] oh i will damage the world that i have sought to protect in order to destroy what i view is bad yep you know this thing threatens to change the certain way that i believe the world should be so i'll give it everything i've got consequences be damned

[01:30:37] oops i'm leaving that in i have yeah i was trying to find i was going to say that and i stopped myself because i was like i don't know if i can say no we have that's a better way to say that

[01:30:48] but yeah um but yeah that's exactly yeah what that is and then that is all the notes i have thank you for listening everybody putting up with me getting hopefully not too fired up

[01:31:02] but having to say the only thing that i have left is i just want to talk a little bit about blue sky which was the company that originally was putting this together they are behind like

[01:31:16] ice age and rio and a bunch of other films um they had been in business for like 30 years before disney bought out their owners um the co-president robber baird was really disappointed because it was basically dissolving his quote family which was about 500 employees and some of their

[01:31:43] ongoing projects were canceled including nemona um but he said he and a team of about 25 to 30 former employees were able to get the movie in front of meghan ellison who founded anna perna pictures and she loved the reel that she saw and wanted

[01:32:04] to be the studio to make it happen so that is how nemona went from being canceled to having a space and now being an oscar nominated film nice yeah that's like just like the ultimate

[01:32:19] underdog yeah being a movie that was not going to happen to be like aren't you glad we made it happen because now it's up for best animated feature oh exactly and anna perna pictures looks super smart

[01:32:30] like okay yeah um and i was trying to figure out what other films that they've been involved in that you know may have gone on to do some certain things and they did zero dark 30 they were

[01:32:47] they did her they did american hustle they did fox catcher um detroit yeah those are just some of the films that they have been involved with that i mean some of those had components that were

[01:33:05] oscar nominated so there they stepped in they they did something really great with this you know they were helped get it made so i appreciate it all right well i've had enough to say i'm sure

[01:33:20] i've heard enough of myself and my thoughts i want to hear from other people so hopefully some other people had some great thoughts well we'll see that'd be really cool and there we go almost on cue

[01:33:33] i know almost like a push of a button so uh let's see if people have something to say all right all right we do have a couple pieces of feedback this week right here for

[01:33:44] namona which i'm super excited from and uh spoiler they're the best kind of feedback for this one i think because both of them are from parents who watch these with their kids young kids and that's

[01:33:55] awesome because it is so cool which is great for this one because yeah if you've listened to the episode you remember you're like you think if you didn't turn it off and run away going oh

[01:34:03] my god pake had way too much to say on this you know soapbox of social justice and he won't shut up about it and i'm tired of hearing it then if you made it to this point then good uh because it's

[01:34:15] good uh that we have some really good feedback like that so i'll let you start with that all right well kathryn hi kathryn so glad that you send us feedback every week i love hearing or reading

[01:34:27] what you have to say about the movie that we're covering so this week she says i watched namona with my almost five-year-old daughter and we both loved it when the queen died i wondered if i shouldn't

[01:34:40] let her watch anymore but she just looked at me and calmly stated well that's not good once namona started shape shifting we were both all in i didn't mind the six requests to rewind

[01:34:53] to when she first transforms into the rhino namona gave us the chance to talk about some rough concepts like how we treat people can affect how they treat others and we dealt with

[01:35:03] some big emotions too at one point my daughter asked why is she so cranky and when i explained that it hurt namona's feelings when they called her a monster she simply replied she wasn't a

[01:35:16] monster she was just a dragon my kid was also upset when the dragon gets stabbed in sleeping beauty so she might just be very empathetic towards dragons the animation reminds me of the cell shading from the legend of zelda wind waker video game it's perfect for showing intense

[01:35:36] emotions and graphic violence in a way that isn't traumatic to younger audiences my only complaint there isn't a toy or figure line of namona and all of her animal transformations of course my daughter now wants a namona whale a namona rhino a namono ostrich and a namona duck

[01:35:55] even though i'm not sure we ever saw her transform into a duck i love that thank you katherine so much i'm so glad that you watched the movie with your daughter and

[01:36:07] really appreciate you sending feedback in and we have another one here from alex who i think this is the first time we've heard from him and says uh so i put this on with my daughters ages five and

[01:36:19] nine solely because of this post i went in completely blind i was amazed at how fast it all started quick five minute exposition dump and we were off to the races the story was compelling the

[01:36:30] action scenes were really electric and there was never a slow moment i was amazed we found the saboteur so early and that she was exposed as quickly as she was granted my five-year-old saw the

[01:36:40] movie at her mom's and spoiled that secret in the first three minutes of the movie the pairing between balanamona was really sweet and i liked how they presented the mom mentality problem also medieval

[01:36:51] systems in a futuristic world is a genre nowhere near well enough explored i was thoroughly impressed with this movie and i'm so happy you're covering it so i could be introduced to it

[01:36:59] oh alex thank you so much for sharing your feedback i really love the feedback we got this week i think it is cool that you both watch the movie with your kids yes it just it's great

[01:37:16] so if you would like to submit feedback like katherine or alex you can find us on facebook and instagram at run for your lies podcast can email us run for your lies podcast at gmail.com

[01:37:28] and if you're enjoying the show please tell all your friends we are available on all the podcast players apple spotify and youtube and more you can go to run for your lies podcast.com for

[01:37:41] all the links that you're ever going to need and give us a review on apple podcasts that's the best way share the love and get us out there even more we really appreciate it we do

[01:37:52] absolutely appreciate it every bit and so yeah um if you send in feedback we hope to hear from you more and more and uh more of you we'd love to hear from you as well uh but yeah speaking of

[01:38:03] sharing the love gotta give those shoutouts to things going on in the podcast universe around us right here on podcastica of course the cast of us formerly the walking dead cast going back to

[01:38:14] its walking dead cast roots as the walking dead the ones who live is nigh it's right upon us it is coming out if you're listening to this on the day we dropped it it's in like two days

[01:38:25] this weekend the first episode is dropping and we get to have our rick and machone goodness uh and yeah cast of us will be right on it they got screeners this time amc usually doesn't ever do

[01:38:37] screeners so i know and you know what they're also doing the podcast of youtube is going to be hosting an instant reaction yeah with jason and a few other guests will be breaking down probably in like a 20 to 25 minute uh episode on youtube they'll be talking about

[01:38:58] the reaction that people are having have when the episode ends so i think that's going to be at 10 30 eastern on sunday nice and they're going to plan to do it every week yeah so why i mentioned

[01:39:10] the screeners and then like that and stuff is if you're a fan of walking dead stuff and you're excited for rick and machone for the ones who live to come out make sure the the cast of

[01:39:19] us and their coverage is your home for more walking dead goodness and podcast goodness because they're going to be on top of it they're getting to watch everything know what they're talking about

[01:39:26] get their notes ready to go to enjoy the show have the the live reactions on youtube right after and then have that podcast up quick for you to check out and listen to so it's going to

[01:39:36] be great and i'm excited for it i'm so excited rick is my favorite character and i i've often wondered what would have happened had andrew linkin not left the show mm-hmm like how would he

[01:39:50] have dealt with the whispers and all of that we didn't get to really know but i'm really looking forward to how they tell this story this piece of the story with him in macho so i'm ready i'm

[01:40:04] excited it'll be a lot of fun ready to dive back into the world of the walking dead about other podcast stuff to check out of course with more rewatch stuff going on ben and christin still killing it over on revisited doing their coverage of ted lasso

[01:40:19] they're in season two right now the episode man city which yeah big one uh so go check that out and the rewatch of ted lasso going well over there and then kara and penny still slaying the name of the podcast but also what they're doing while covering

[01:40:36] buffy season three completely right now the episode the wish this week so make sure to go check that out and then a little bit on the outside of podcast occur our good friends over

[01:40:45] at tv podcast industries the bad batch the final season on disney plus is here it's out and they're covering it their first episode covering the first little bit of that is up right now

[01:40:55] so you can pop over to tv podcast industries and go check that out um yeah other than that you can come right back here we always have something fun for you on run for your lives

[01:41:05] definitely what we do in next week well when office workers find themselves trapped in a twisted social experiment where the stakes are life and death tensions escalate and survival instincts kick in as they're forced to confront the darkest corners of human nature we are discussing

[01:41:25] greg mclean's film the belco experiment it was written by james gunne and it stars john gallagher junior tony goldwin and john c mcginley yeah it'll be a fun one crazy one bloody gory wild so if you

[01:41:41] are newer to run for your lives and you're just jumping in for this episode specifically on namona don't bring the kids back next week it's not a one for them uh no but we do have episodes

[01:41:53] in the past that we've covered that you may want to listen to it if this is your first episode we covered um michels versus the machines is one that we covered we've done monster house

[01:42:06] yet and then for lyca fans we have done paranormal and core align so those are sitting back there too in in the recesses of our episodes somewhere back there yes we've got quite a backlog yeah

[01:42:21] well that brings us to the end of our episode thanks everyone for listening i'm dafney and i'm paint and if you have to run you better run for your lives arm chopping is not a love language