Run For Your Lives Podcast Episode 173: Annihilation

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to the show. I'm Daphne. And I'm Pake. And this is the Run for Your

[00:01:12] Lives Podcast. This episode we will be talking about the science fiction horror film Annihilation,

[00:01:20] written and directed by Alex Garland and released on February 23, 2018.

[00:01:25] Yeah.

[00:01:26] Uh-huh. I remember when this first came out and going and seeing it in theaters and being

[00:01:32] super excited about it because I really, really like Alex Garland. And then yeah, also I had

[00:01:40] just read the book. Oh, okay. Seeing this, this was early Zed Head, not early, early day,

[00:01:51] I mean 2018. So but we had one of, I think this was the first iteration of the Zed Head

[00:02:00] book club for podcastica stuff. We did Annihilation by Jeff Andermere and knowing that

[00:02:07] the Alex Garland adaptation was coming out soon. So we read that and so I read the movie,

[00:02:15] or read the movie, read the book, read the book and was really gripped by it and so

[00:02:21] and saw the movie. And there's a lot of differences which I'm sure we'll talk about some of

[00:02:25] that stuff or whatever. It was more of a, you know, loose adaptation. I think Alex

[00:02:32] Garland said something about like he wanted, he didn't reread the book before making

[00:02:36] the movie or like he wanted it to be like a dream of the book or something like that.

[00:02:41] Yeah. But yeah, but still a lot of stuff was close, but I really enjoyed it and I never

[00:02:48] read any other thing which is funny because then a lot of my like just personal like close

[00:02:52] friends outside of podcastica and Zed Head's and stuff when I mentioned Annihilation,

[00:02:59] I was like, oh did you read the book? And I'm like, yeah, only the first one

[00:03:01] I haven't read the rest of the trilogy and like all of them are like same. Like

[00:03:05] I know so many people who have read Annihilation and it didn't continue. So I

[00:03:09] want to, I want to continue. It's the Southern Reach Trilogy by Jeff Vandermeer

[00:03:13] which is Annihilation, Authority and Acceptance. So I read the first one. So

[00:03:18] actually while I was watching this movie and taking my notes, I went on Amazon as

[00:03:21] I tend to do sometimes and just ordered they have like a full like trilogy

[00:03:26] collection just in one book. So I ordered that even though I already

[00:03:31] own Annihilation because I was like, I just have them all together and I was

[00:03:34] like, I'll reread Annihilation because it's been quite a while and then it's not

[00:03:39] that long anyway. It's actually pretty short book and then I can read the other

[00:03:43] ones because I'm interested and then there's a fourth one that he's releasing

[00:03:46] in October this year. Oh wow. So no longer a trilogy. The fourth one. You're

[00:03:53] gonna have to get on it then if you want. I've already preordered it. Okay.

[00:03:56] But yeah, but I preordered it. But yeah, so I'll finish. I'll read the

[00:03:59] other ones this year and then it'll be coming whenever it comes out in October.

[00:04:05] So yeah, I'm excited to get back into that along with all the other things

[00:04:09] I'm trying to read right now. I'm still a little over halfway through Dr.

[00:04:13] Sleep. So I've got to wrap that up. But I just set Dr. Sleep down because

[00:04:17] I am reading Lord of the Flies. Now I started that last night

[00:04:22] because I get a little plug by the time you're hearing this, I'm talking

[00:04:26] about this a week even in advance. So they should be recording this weekend as

[00:04:30] you're listening to this, I think the Yellow Jackets WTF podcast. I think it's

[00:04:35] Penny, Wendy, Cassie and Jason are doing an episode about the Lord of

[00:04:41] the Flies, the book, not one of the movie adaptations. And so like a

[00:04:45] little book club on the podcast. So I figured yeah, I'll pick it up. It's

[00:04:48] a quick read and it was like six bucks on Amazon. So I was like, yeah,

[00:04:52] I'll grab it and read through it. I've got two weeks. I can rip

[00:04:56] through that. They get back to my Dr. Sleep and then maybe jump on the

[00:05:01] Southern Reach stuff. But then I've also got like, Marquery's new one is

[00:05:05] coming out in like July, I think. So like books, too many books to read all

[00:05:08] the time. Yeah, and you don't do enough driving to do the books on tape

[00:05:15] and you don't like them. I don't like audio books anyway. I prefer to

[00:05:19] I know you like to have the paper and the pages. You've made that very

[00:05:24] clear. Yeah, yeah.

[00:05:28] Yeah, audio books work better for me just because I can listen to them while

[00:05:32] I'm doing some other things as long as it's not something that requires a

[00:05:37] lot of concentration. Like if I'm watching the dishes or cooking dinner

[00:05:42] then I can handle listening to an audio book. But not if I'm at work

[00:05:48] like I don't know how I ever used to listen to podcasts while I was

[00:05:51] working in an office. But I did and I was able to pay attention to

[00:05:57] them and do my work at the same time. But working from home now, I

[00:06:01] cannot listen to podcasts. It's yeah, it's just different.

[00:06:07] Yeah, different world.

[00:06:09] Yeah, but back on the movie side of things. Yes, I'm excited to talk

[00:06:12] about this one. I've been quite Alex Garland kick prepping for

[00:06:18] this one with watching this. I have three Alex Garland movies

[00:06:22] three days in a row because I went and saw Civil War in theaters,

[00:06:27] his newest one that's out right now in theaters. Go watch it.

[00:06:30] It's great. And then the only movie that he directed that I

[00:06:33] hadn't seen yet was men. So I watched that the next night.

[00:06:37] And then the third night in a row was when I was doing all

[00:06:40] the prep and notes and stuff for this movie. So yeah, Alex

[00:06:44] Garland marathon a little bit three days in a row, three

[00:06:47] Garland movies. So now I've seen everything that he's directed,

[00:06:51] except for devs, which is a TV show and that's on my list soon as

[00:06:54] soon as I wrap up. Yeah, showgun. I've got like two episodes

[00:06:58] left of showgun. I'm gonna like binge through because there's

[00:07:00] another little plug for you. Podcast is going to be doing

[00:07:03] like they did with fallout. We're gonna have some coverage.

[00:07:06] I don't remember exactly who's covering it right now

[00:07:08] who's talking about it but stay tuned for that I'll give

[00:07:10] you official plugs at some point. Um, yeah, so the showgun

[00:07:14] full season coverage episode will be up on House Podcastica, I

[00:07:17] believe soon like this week or next week. So gonna catch up on

[00:07:23] that. And then also Civil War since I mentioned that with Alex

[00:07:25] Garland, go to the like House podcastica feed for that with

[00:07:29] Jim and Jason and David talking about that movie as well.

[00:07:34] It's really good. Yeah, early in the episode but they're

[00:07:37] like in my brain some thrown them out there. Yeah.

[00:07:39] Yeah, Civil War was not what I expected. But it was really good.

[00:07:48] I don't really know what I was expecting. Other than I don't

[00:07:53] know, I just thought it was gonna be different. But I really

[00:07:57] enjoyed it a lot and people should definitely go see it and

[00:08:00] then listen to the episode where they break it down.

[00:08:03] Yeah, for sure.

[00:08:04] But we're not breaking down civil war on this podcast

[00:08:07] right now. We are talking about annihilation. So got a

[00:08:11] different Alex Garland written in a movie to talk about.

[00:08:15] Well, I mean, let's be real. Alex Garland is going to be

[00:08:19] writing the 28 years later movie that we've all been

[00:08:23] wanting and waiting for for years. So he's kind of hot

[00:08:29] right now.

[00:08:30] Oh yeah. I mean, I've always said I really like you know,

[00:08:33] because 28 days later, he's not the director, but he wrote

[00:08:37] co wrote with Danny Boyle and so he had a lot to do with 28

[00:08:41] days and that was great. And then everything he has directed,

[00:08:45] I have seen now as far as movies. Annihilation we'll talk

[00:08:50] about right now. I love I'm just gonna go ahead and like

[00:08:54] spoiler alert. I love this movie. I'm gonna have a lot

[00:08:56] to say about it. X Machina is another one of his that he

[00:08:59] did right before this one. That is one of my favorites. I

[00:09:01] love so much. Men was weird, not my favorite, but some great

[00:09:08] acting. Rory Keneer. Rory Keneer. Rory Keneer. Yeah. And then

[00:09:14] Civil War was incredible. So yeah, definitely check that out. I

[00:09:18] can say I'm safe. I can safely say overall everything

[00:09:22] combined. I'm a huge Garland fan. I think he's great. Even if

[00:09:26] he gets a little off the wall sometimes he's great. Are

[00:09:29] you at the level with Garland as you are with Edgar Wright?

[00:09:33] No. Okay. I don't think anybody compares to I mean Mike

[00:09:38] Flanagan, but that's very different like they're on like

[00:09:40] almost like separate but the same pedestals. Okay. Like at

[00:09:45] the height I couldn't not ready to add another pedestal.

[00:09:49] But but yeah, it's still it. Garland's great. Love Alex

[00:09:53] Garland. But for me personally, yeah, no Edgar Wright and

[00:09:57] Mike Flanagan probably still higher on the totem pole. Okay.

[00:10:01] That's good to know. There'll be a quiz later for all of our

[00:10:06] listeners. Who are Pake's favorite directors? Maybe we'll

[00:10:12] give away some swag. That should be kind of an easy

[00:10:14] answer if you've listened to this podcast for any like

[00:10:16] substantial amount of time, you know I've talked about

[00:10:19] yeah there's at some point. Maybe we'll give away some

[00:10:23] swag. At some point we'll have a little quiz.

[00:10:28] But going back to annihilation, we're going to get started

[00:10:32] like we always do with some production notes. So it was

[00:10:36] filmed in Suffolk, Berkshire, Holcomb Beach in

[00:10:40] Norfolk and Marsworth Airfield in England. Garland

[00:10:44] wrote the screenplay which was loosely based on the

[00:10:47] 2014 novel of the same name by Jeff VanderMeer as

[00:10:51] we've talked about. An annihilation as Pake said

[00:10:54] is the first book in the Southern Reach trilogy.

[00:10:58] Budget was between 40 and 55 million and it grossed

[00:11:02] just 43.1 million at the box office. It's 115 minutes long.

[00:11:09] Pake, bring us a synopsis. All right. A biologist signs up for a

[00:11:15] dangerous secret expedition into a mysterious zone where the

[00:11:18] laws of nature don't apply. Yeah, I'm not sure what laws apply

[00:11:23] there. Okay so this movie reminded me of bits and

[00:11:29] pieces from a bunch of different movies. Like there were

[00:11:32] things that I saw that reminded me of like just one

[00:11:39] scene in another film or a scene from a TV show.

[00:11:46] Even some of the sets reminded me of maps that we have in Dead by

[00:11:51] Daylight. Because the shimmer is incredibly colorful and it

[00:11:58] just represents like some of the maps that we have there.

[00:12:03] Yeah, yeah it was really cool to see a lot of this kind of

[00:12:06] stuff play out. The last little book connection I guess for

[00:12:11] now because I've got to note about it so continue on

[00:12:14] before we really break down characters and stuff is again it's been a while

[00:12:17] since I read that first book so I'm gonna reread it but

[00:12:20] I do remember like there's stuff in the book that they didn't touch on

[00:12:23] at all here or you know at all but like a lot of it it was cool to see

[00:12:28] in play. Like yeah these like kind of the DNA splicing and like the very

[00:12:31] colorful like I mean honestly it's alien

[00:12:35] world kind of stuff taking place here on earth. It's like this alien

[00:12:39] DNA splicing in and mixing and changing the

[00:12:42] things that are on our planet and that's a really cool visual when

[00:12:46] reading so then to see how well Alex Garland kind of

[00:12:49] portrayed a lot of that and really made it like oh that's how that looks, that's

[00:12:52] how that that works was really cool. There are things that weren't

[00:12:55] included um I'm not getting too spoilery with the book and stuff.

[00:12:59] There's like this like underground tower which is

[00:13:03] hard to explain if that makes sense. It's basically like an ever-changing

[00:13:07] living organism within itself and it gets really disturbing and dark.

[00:13:12] Creepy and stuff so like the hole or the tunnel that's like in the lighthouse

[00:13:16] floor where Lena goes down and finds

[00:13:19] ventris or maybe not um is maybe the closest representation to that.

[00:13:25] Yeah. That's in the movie but it's still like nothing like what

[00:13:29] is you know described and shown in a book.

[00:13:33] Yeah it goes way deep under the lighthouse right like it's way way way

[00:13:37] way down like a spiral. Well it's not even connected to the lighthouse

[00:13:40] if I remember correctly. It's like its own thing. Oh wow. Yeah that's also somewhere else.

[00:13:45] Uh again it's been a while since I've read it but

[00:13:48] I'll go back to that and I think there's also some like extra like secrets and

[00:13:53] kind of shady stuff going on with ventris or just the psychologist in the book because that was

[00:13:59] another thing is they didn't have names not even Lena nobody had names in the book.

[00:14:02] They were all the biologists, the the psychologists that they were just like

[00:14:08] by their their title and not their names which was interesting.

[00:14:11] I've never read the book but one of the things that I read when I was doing research for this

[00:14:15] movie is that the book focused more on like assimilating and replacing

[00:14:23] everything with like alien clones would you say that's accurate?

[00:14:30] Uh I don't think in the first book I think that's that the trilogy maybe goes on

[00:14:35] more than that. I haven't read those second books I've heard a little bit about them but

[00:14:39] but no the first book is very much this story of just

[00:14:44] these this group of scientists these women that go in and kind of what they experience as

[00:14:49] everything's starting. Yeah I really appreciated the creatures that we got to see in some of

[00:14:58] the visual references and cinematography. It was interesting how the shimmer was just touching

[00:15:08] and changing things. Yeah. And some look like duplicating and cloning it just you know all

[00:15:18] tying in with refraction and it got very scientific. Yeah it's an interesting science fiction

[00:15:28] horror you know it's like yeah it's a very unique form of science fiction where

[00:15:35] everything is very unique and stuff you haven't really thought of or heard of before and then

[00:15:40] the actual like reality or like what that means when you see it play out you're like oh that's

[00:15:46] horrifying. Yeah it's very strange I mean just the scene where they go into the swimming pool

[00:15:54] and there is the guy that's basically like I think it was the one that was cut into

[00:16:03] and he's sitting in a chair but he's kind of I don't know how to explain it. It reminded me a

[00:16:09] little bit of The Last of Us. Yeah definitely like Last of Us vibes. Yeah for sure with that.

[00:16:16] Yeah I got The Last of Us. Without the zombie stuff. Yeah this whole like basically his DNA was like

[00:16:26] spliced with and became like plant and like fungal material and just kind of grew and.

[00:16:34] It's kind of like replacing things like yeah you had different organisms you had plants you

[00:16:42] had animals you had people but they were almost interchangeable at different times based on what

[00:16:50] was happening because there was you know one point where Josie just decided she was gonna

[00:17:01] let it take over and she was instead of fighting it or continuing on with the

[00:17:10] mission she just decided nope I'm just gonna let it you know let the shimmer change me to what it

[00:17:17] wants me to be. Just gonna become a tree. Yeah I thought some of the visual effects were really

[00:17:26] cool I liked the tree people like the ones that were made out of flowers and vines and

[00:17:33] sticks basically I liked that a lot I thought it was interesting because it really looked kind of

[00:17:43] post apocalyptic. Yeah in there because people had left and been evacuated but the place had

[00:17:51] changed so much. Yeah it was cool and we'll talk about yeah a lot of that stuff as far as just

[00:17:58] some of the shimmer stuff and the effects and things in there. Yeah yeah I've got a lot of relief

[00:18:03] like this one's gonna be fun but before I guess we get in weird too many like tangent off of a

[00:18:10] tangent off of a tangent we will go through this like we usually do now finally. Yes.

[00:18:15] Pegas bringing us back on track. Only 20 minutes and let's actually get on track.

[00:18:22] Yeah we'll talk about characters now again it is kind of a group effort here we've

[00:18:26] got more of an ensemble cast but a lot of it the main character obviously Lena here and

[00:18:32] covering her so I'll start there and then her husband Sargent Kane all kind of combined with

[00:18:38] her their story is very intertwined more than you might even know. Yeah so do that and then

[00:18:46] I've got like we can get to Dr. Ventress and the other the team and stuff there and then

[00:18:51] yeah some shimmer stuff but start there so where we pick up with her at the beginning is as Lena has

[00:18:59] lost her husband or so she thinks he's been on some secretive military mission we learned that he

[00:19:07] was sent into the shimmer she doesn't know anything about this at this point so he's just on some

[00:19:12] weird mysterious mission and never returned and she just assumes dead or missing in action it's

[00:19:18] been a year so she's kind of still grieving but at that place where she's ready to move on or ready

[00:19:27] to begin moving on she's kind of at that little you know border and so of course at that time as

[00:19:34] she's repainting the bedroom finally making like one of the first big steps in an acceptance

[00:19:41] and moving forward that's whenever he chooses to just reappear um he doesn't know how he got there

[00:19:48] he doesn't know what's going on it's just oh I'm here uh spoiler alert but hopefully you're

[00:19:53] you've watched the movie you've seen the whole thing before we talk about it that's because it's

[00:19:57] not really him but uh nope it's part of him it's kind of yeah is it a clone is it a duplicate

[00:20:05] is it like some sort of evolution of him like what I don't I don't really know and it's not

[00:20:13] very it's not really explained no so it's on purpose because it's very Alex Garland really

[00:20:19] yeah one of the big things about Alex Garland is he doesn't like to end things on a solid note

[00:20:24] he doesn't like to explain things he wants things he likes things left open for you to extrapolate

[00:20:30] the data and figure out from there what you think happened and kind of let your own mind play with

[00:20:34] things at the end of stuff yeah he definitely wants you to look at it and get your own interpretation of

[00:20:40] what what comes next or how it ends yeah yeah but for now yeah he's just he's back back home appears

[00:20:49] in uh the bedroom door not a lot of information like I said he doesn't know where he was how he

[00:20:55] got back it's just kind of out and we find out it's not necessarily that Cain would have had

[00:21:02] like memory loss or all this stuff but it's just because again it's this clone alien clone duplicate

[00:21:09] of him that really is just learning as it goes and doesn't know much anything anyway and I think

[00:21:15] even though it's not completely spelled out I mean the fact that it's he is immediately degrading

[00:21:19] and coughing up blood and then goes through all this like cardiac arrest and everything's shutting down

[00:21:25] and I think it's even though it's not spelled out for us I think it's just because he's outside

[00:21:30] the shimmer that is what I was thinking as well is that and it's whatever these alien beings this

[00:21:36] whatever this is it's why they're in the shimmer and the shimmer keeps expanding because

[00:21:39] they have to annihilate and assimilate the world yeah in order to occupy it because when

[00:21:46] they when he moves outside of the shimmer he can't his body just start shutting down and going out

[00:21:51] because it it's away from what gives him life and gives lets him continue on yeah though he

[00:21:58] I think contains DNA from Cain he really doesn't have all of his memories like I think he knows

[00:22:06] who Lena is but it's it's not that simple yeah it's not that simple it gave me vibes of the

[00:22:15] invasion of the body snatchers which is another movie that we have not covered that we have to cover

[00:22:22] and there are two versions one from the 50s and one from late 70s well there was another

[00:22:30] there's another movie I haven't seen either of those there's one that came out in the

[00:22:35] late aughts I believe at some point uh that's loosely based on that I think it was just

[00:22:41] called the invasion yeah with Nicole Kidman where they they can't fall asleep or else it

[00:22:45] takes some longer I saw that one like I think in theaters back when that came out but that's

[00:22:49] it's like loosely yeah it's similar it's very similar I feel like maybe we're gonna have to do

[00:22:57] the original invasion then the 78 invasion and then do the invasion because they're so similar

[00:23:05] uh-huh is some sort of triple dip maybe I don't know yeah so many movies always always so many

[00:23:15] movies constantly adding stuff so yeah uh but yeah so here yeah so we see immediately like she's

[00:23:21] talking to him and trying to get answers and she's just like getting frustrated with the lack of

[00:23:28] understanding that even he has and what's going on and the fact that he just seems to be

[00:23:32] completely unbothered by like you've been gone for a year now you're here and like there's no

[00:23:37] intellectual connection there's no emotional connection there's no like what what happened

[00:23:41] why aren't you telling me anything and then that's when he kind of goes under like cardiac arrest

[00:23:46] and everything starts shutting down she calls an ambulance and they's got this medical transport

[00:23:51] taking him and it gets uh hijacked not hijacked but you know like yeah the the feds come in

[00:23:57] and crash the party armed and everything and take him immediately into custody so you're like

[00:24:01] something big it's definitely going on yeah definitely which you know whatever happened to him

[00:24:09] that they're they're thinking uh the fact that his wife is a Johns Hopkins cellular biologist uh

[00:24:16] is a lucky break I guess in this way that you know she just might be actually like the best

[00:24:20] chance of helping the situation if anybody is able to try to figure out what's going on

[00:24:26] it's a great contender for that for sure but still I mean the thought of her agreeing to go in the shimmer

[00:24:33] kind of floored me because she knows what happened when her husband came out plus no one ever comes

[00:24:42] out so as far as anyone knows he's the first one that ever came out of there yeah and so you

[00:24:49] do have to wonder if it's is it just the clones that have a problem surviving or is it people who come

[00:24:56] out of there I mean would a person who's been in there long enough come out and have a similar reaction

[00:25:04] because their DNA would have been played around nobody who's nobody who has ever gone in living

[00:25:09] has ever come out right until lina at the end of this right so you don't know

[00:25:14] mm-hmm it's just one of those questions yeah of course she does have her own military experience

[00:25:21] herself to some degree which comes in handy for sure definitely does because she doesn't go in

[00:25:32] their alum so yeah but and then we I like you know it cuts back and forth because we see scenes

[00:25:39] early on with this character is it Benedict walk I believe is Benedict one that uh

[00:25:44] that he plays dr. Lomax that uh based on these like interviews and things with him like

[00:25:50] we obviously know that she comes back out because like very early on they're talking

[00:25:53] about her experiences inside and now that she's out and nobody else has come out and also that

[00:25:58] like yeah you said you were kind of surprised that she went in but I think she doesn't really

[00:26:03] have any other connections like it was like her and her husband and yeah like she was having this

[00:26:08] affair with this Daniel guy but he was I was like oh he's a piece of trash got it um and so she's

[00:26:17] just kind of on her own doesn't really have a lot of connections and it's like the really the only

[00:26:23] option she has she's like I can sit here and watch him die or I can take this risk and

[00:26:29] there's some percentage of a chance that I might be able to find the answers

[00:26:34] yeah and I can see what I guess I can see why she would do that but

[00:26:43] that affair they don't really show us that the affair happened until a bit later

[00:26:50] and it took me back to her interactions with Dan at the beginning

[00:26:55] yeah because it sounded like he was going to invite her over for a barbecue

[00:27:00] but I'm wondering if he was just trying to get them back together like that either that or even

[00:27:07] if it was just innocent as a barbecue it's like really after everything we've been through and

[00:27:11] like things I've said to you it's like you're gonna invite me over to your home with your wife

[00:27:15] and yeah maybe kids or you know other family members and friends a bit act like things are

[00:27:20] normal like no I'm good yeah I think Lena blames herself in some way that because she had the affair

[00:27:27] because Cain found out about it maybe that's why he went into the shimmer like that's why he

[00:27:33] agreed to go in but I also think he was told he had to go in like or he maybe he was offered the

[00:27:41] assignment and he accepted it and maybe him accepting it had to do with finding out about

[00:27:46] her affair yeah it could that's I think that part the part of this story is also like just deeper than

[00:27:56] then the surface level of like the crazy sci-fi thing that's going on is yeah it's garland again

[00:28:02] likes to play with like you know the human condition and and emotional kind of things and so

[00:28:09] yeah I could see a lot of that kind of underlying theme of the choices that people make and the guilt

[00:28:16] that they carry changing who they are whether they really know or not and so a lot of that I think

[00:28:23] that is kind of like a subline through this is this idea that she's the guilt of the affair but

[00:28:29] also it's like is that what pushed him to take the mission and go in and now he's gone because

[00:28:34] of my actions right now her responsibility doesn't fall on me to do what I can to make it right yeah

[00:28:42] we get these glimpses of them actually being happy and then that last scene when he's going

[00:28:49] to go on this mission to the shimmer you can see a coldness between them that is not as evident

[00:28:58] earlier in the flashbacks so you know and she admits that he has found out about this affair and so he

[00:29:05] is it appears they're trying to work things out but I'm not sure how connected they are at this

[00:29:13] point because yeah they look very distant at that moment yeah and you mentioned earlier so when

[00:29:21] she goes in she doesn't go alone we'll talk about the team a little bit more I've got points

[00:29:25] on them but you know Dr. Ventress kind of leading this expedition that Lena joins along with with Anya

[00:29:33] Josie and Cass just like yeah this group of scientists like you know it's a new approach

[00:29:41] in a way that's all female all like scientists and not military yeah although Lena does have the

[00:29:47] military background but she's mainly like scientists now so it's like we're just

[00:29:53] we're trying through things we're throwing different noodles at the wall and seeing what

[00:29:56] happens at this point well because you know that the shimmer is an organism okay it's not just

[00:30:07] I mean it's an alien organism yeah you don't know what it senses when people with guns go into it

[00:30:15] like was it sensing you know bad intentions and force them to you know turn on themselves and each other

[00:30:29] right will it be different if it is a group of scientists that are women

[00:30:35] like what will it be like but I don't I mean to me it used the creatures to attack and take them out

[00:30:43] yeah didn't didn't make a whole lot of difference yeah it didn't seem to care yeah yeah they go in and

[00:30:52] immediately after entering the shimmer they like right away lose several days of time

[00:30:59] and memory like they like walk in and then they just like come to and it's like looking at stuff

[00:31:03] it's like we've been here for several days like camp is set up our rations have been depleted a

[00:31:08] little bit so it's like so we've been here but we're also just getting here and starting like

[00:31:14] yeah it's very discombobulating and I don't know that's not explained exactly again why that happens

[00:31:19] but it's just this you know something going on with them biologically DNA changing and maybe they

[00:31:25] immediately black out for a little bit and pass out and then yeah it's not really explained but they

[00:31:32] forget what's going on uh and then aside from that you know obviously the comms aren't going

[00:31:37] to be working or anything they know that from all the previous expeditions but even any other kind of

[00:31:42] instruments like compasses and stuff are out as well like nothing is is working and it's this

[00:31:48] it's this refraction that that josey points out and talks about later that it's everything

[00:31:54] is refracted besides it's like DNA but also any kind of signals wavelengths

[00:32:00] it's uh anything is yeah that reminded me a bit of from where you're in a place it doesn't have

[00:32:08] visible walls but it you can't go anyway yeah and the comms are down

[00:32:17] it seemed to mess around with the spacetime continuum like you

[00:32:22] you know like they lost time and so when you're in there for a couple of days it may seem to the

[00:32:31] outside world like you've been in there for a couple of weeks like I think the timing is just

[00:32:36] different yeah because kane was gone for a year but I don't think that that's how long

[00:32:42] think that that's how long the key felt when he was in it yeah I think it's into kind of like

[00:32:51] hollow earth and uh what was the other uh something monday or whatever from monarch you know this like

[00:32:58] kind of in between world where time is all different stuff yeah there are references

[00:33:03] you think that it's very different since then have done yeah yeah it's very different it is not

[00:33:08] the norm you lose time you you're you change while you're in the shimmer

[00:33:19] uh so yeah so while they're there uh again we talked about her military experience being handy

[00:33:23] because they come across this alligator and she's able to handle that situation with her

[00:33:30] gun skills and a military ability there uh where they also see some like the weirdness of

[00:33:35] the shimmer with with the alligator that's where they start piecing together things are

[00:33:39] different here but uh that alligator had shark like teeth it's kind of like taking DNA from a few

[00:33:47] things and putting it together yeah everything just kind of blends that's blending it's very blended

[00:33:55] it's it just is very much like goo basically as far as how it all goes together yeah so I'll jump

[00:34:03] to yeah like shimmer notes just because it's it's a cool concept I actually really love it uh

[00:34:07] it's this you know ever-expanding slowly kind of thing that hasn't affected any major areas yet

[00:34:13] but will in due time I mean it's still they have that talk it's like annihilation that's the point

[00:34:17] of this thing is like it's just gonna keep growing and growing uh in every approach so far has been

[00:34:22] fruitless about finding out what's going on uh yeah I see like the flowers she's pointing

[00:34:28] us like they're all connected they're all like the same they should be the same species but

[00:34:31] they look different they're different the alligator he mentioned like having like shark teeth and

[00:34:36] other kind of things all the flora and fauna anything living within the space of the shimmer

[00:34:44] is affected like it the shimmer actively is editing and changing and splicing the genes and

[00:34:49] DNA of yeah organisms into new things yeah uh which leads to some really cool stuff I love

[00:34:56] the creature design in this movie uh I mean the alligator was like basic and that's the

[00:35:01] thing the closer you get to the source the closer you get to the lighthouse the crazier

[00:35:04] it gets the wilder it gets the alligator looks like a regular alligator until you look at the

[00:35:09] teeth and you look at some of the like things but the closer you get you know like the the

[00:35:15] tree people or or even like the duplicate deer with kind of like these like yeah antlers that

[00:35:23] are made of like vines and stuff and have these really cool effects and then of course the bear

[00:35:28] we will talk about the bear we will talk about he was not a cocaine bear no that is for sure

[00:35:35] he reminded yeah he reminded me of this horse Maurice that is in uh debt by daylight because

[00:35:43] he's just got some of the similar like look but um yeah oh that bear yeah so it's wilder as they go

[00:35:51] but like the creature design is cool and then we talk about the DNA refraction which is a phenomenal

[00:35:56] concept again like I said I love seeing it played out but yeah the you know the the plants that grow

[00:36:02] to look like people and I don't think it was like Josie every time those aren't all like people that

[00:36:07] turned into plants I think literally as they were talking about it's just plants and seeds and stuff

[00:36:12] that are there they're melding with this refracted DNA in the area that like well yeah people used

[00:36:18] to live here many people were probably buried here it seems like a small town kind of so their

[00:36:24] DNA is literally just embedded in the ground and in the area so the growth of the trees and the flowers

[00:36:30] are just going to suck up that human DNA and adapt that way yeah and it's completely molding

[00:36:36] itself together it's like it's mixing and blending it's like chemistry basically or

[00:36:43] you know it not not just chemistry it's taking everything and just

[00:36:48] try I don't know is it trying to make it better I'm not sure as far as I mean we kind of the answer

[00:36:56] we get even Lena suspects is I don't think there is any goal whether it's positive or nefarious I

[00:37:06] don't think there is any kind of goal it's just it is that's what it does yeah whether it means

[00:37:13] to or not that's what or these beings this organism this thing whatever they are from

[00:37:19] whatever alien thing this is I don't think it has good or bad intentions with anything it's just

[00:37:27] that's what it does that's how it exists is to is to change and take over and renew

[00:37:36] what what exists elsewhere wherever it lands like it copies in pace

[00:37:43] and then it deletes the original kind of yeah it's kind of like I don't know cloning I it just

[00:37:51] it made me think of the stuff that I do with photography and how I'm cloning things and

[00:37:57] copying and pasting and recreating and this is very I mean it's a little similar when you

[00:38:04] think about just on a genetic level yeah and that's scary right I mean because we've seen what happens

[00:38:11] when you mess around with DNA Dr. Hammond talking to you this is on a much deeper level yeah there's

[00:38:24] no one in a lab doing this it's basically an organism that is just ebbing and flowing and

[00:38:31] creating and destroying and recreating yeah over and over again yeah we see like some things yeah just

[00:38:40] kind of get edited and changed and then there's also the duplicates and even in one of those

[00:38:47] flash back or flash forward in a way scenes with with Lena talking to Lomax and when she's

[00:38:54] explaining the trip and the things they saw and she mentions duplicates and I was like that's

[00:38:58] very important to the key like climax of this movie with what happened to Kane and even kind of

[00:39:05] what happens to her at the end or adventurous or these these duplicates play a huge role there

[00:39:13] but more on that later I kind of thought the deer were kind of yeah those were definitely

[00:39:21] duplicate like they were moving as you see like the the her duplicate that shows up at the end

[00:39:28] it is it's mirroring her actions and trying to like and so I think that deer situation was a little

[00:39:33] further along than hers was but yeah that's kind of it adapts and learns and grows from just

[00:39:38] mirroring and mimicking yeah she tried to get out and it went letter because it was

[00:39:44] I don't know it was fighting against what she was doing I guess when she was trying to get

[00:39:48] out of the lighthouse but I also thought it kind of represented her fight within herself

[00:39:54] yeah absolutely with everything that was going on she was battling this kind of yeah this idea of

[00:40:01] like you can't really run away from yourself so like sometimes you have to face yourself yeah

[00:40:06] to to deal with with decisions and things yeah it's not always pretty either like when you

[00:40:12] have to face yourself it can be really daunting and scary because you have to acknowledge

[00:40:18] decisions you made that were maybe not the best yeah yeah but with Lena going in and

[00:40:29] after she meets the the team and going in she like right from the because they're as she's

[00:40:35] meeting them for the first time they're you know they're talking about their theories and they

[00:40:41] mentioned her husband they mentioned Sergeant Kane they don't know who she is they don't know

[00:40:45] her connection but you know they're like isn't that crazy and that weird you know whatever

[00:40:49] and so she chooses to kind of lie to them or a mission of truth uh yeah and not let her know

[00:41:00] her connection to to her husband just to avoid any conflict of interest or you know that she

[00:41:06] doesn't want them to view her differently or well what what what are you actually doing here what's

[00:41:11] what's the plan or has he affected you in any way or what's what's going on she'd rather

[00:41:17] just leave things as they are and just be part of the team uh of course Ventress knows because she

[00:41:24] brought her in through all of this with with Kane anyway but she holds on to that for for the time

[00:41:32] she even tells her like she's like I wasn't sure about you like but then she's like after I saw

[00:41:36] that video and how how the other women reacted she's like no maybe you're on to something

[00:41:41] about just kind of sticking to yourself for a little while on that information

[00:41:48] I don't think that Ventress looked at Lena as I feel like she almost conned her in some ways

[00:41:57] to get her to go with her and I she wasn't forthcoming about her reasons for going in either

[00:42:07] yeah Ventress is an interesting character again not fleshed out a whole lot well I guess

[00:42:12] actually the end fleshed out um no but uh yeah because again again it's been a while since I

[00:42:17] read the book but if I remember like there was some like the psychologist was real shady

[00:42:21] there was some other stuff going on that yeah so they played off that a little bit with

[00:42:28] with the movie but yeah they come across the the former southern reach base the building

[00:42:34] they were at before they took off but the the former location before he got overtaken by the

[00:42:38] shimmer expanding so they had to move to it you know a little further back and they see that's where

[00:42:43] Kane and his unit had been stationed when they went in uh but the base is empty now and it's

[00:42:50] super like foreboding you see soldiers names crossed out on this list and they have this guard

[00:42:56] duty rotation schedule uh at what point when you're seeing all of these happen I mean at one point

[00:43:05] when you're seeing things like this list of people and names crossed out rotations and things and

[00:43:10] realizing I mean what point do you realize and decide okay maybe maybe we should go back

[00:43:19] and right well yeah I mean they they're having this thought because that's just like they had a guard

[00:43:23] rotation for a reason we should do the same like they've experienced the alligator but like still at

[00:43:29] that point it's like there are definitely dangerous things here oh yeah that alligator is nothing compared

[00:43:34] to some of the other things that that bear yeah but like based off of like what seems what happened

[00:43:41] here they're like obviously we do need to protect ourselves to some degree or be careful

[00:43:47] uh and then they find that the footage on the camcorder which very disturbing you see like the guy

[00:43:54] being taken over which is really what happened to jose uh but like the the soldiers kind of

[00:44:01] seeing what's going on and they're the way that they experiment with it in the video and

[00:44:06] it is disturbing I found it frustrating that Anya was so like

[00:44:13] like she just wants to disregard it and it's like oh it's a trick of the light it's it's this it's that

[00:44:18] you know like yeah it's not real it happens like she's literally the expert I know in that field

[00:44:25] like she's the botanist or whatever right like she's the light and it's like what that's the whole

[00:44:30] point of this mission is that everything that goes on in here has been a scientific mystery

[00:44:34] yeah so yeah like what what you're seeing there it's not a clear answer no information so why

[00:44:40] is she gonna be like nope I don't believe it it's like it's your job to believe it and try

[00:44:44] to understand what hasn't been understood before that's why you're here well they all went in

[00:44:49] and they had their own little issues like one was a cutter another one um they all had some

[00:44:58] sort of disorder yeah and so going into it whatever they went through was going to be

[00:45:08] probably exacerbated by their underlying condition right missy if Anya had issues with trusting people

[00:45:16] yes it's just tenfold and tenfold where she doesn't trust this and eventually she's the one that finds

[00:45:21] the connection between Lena and Kane and goes crazy just off the wall about it was like you're

[00:45:26] lying to me so you're trying to get us killed and she's like gonna sit here and threaten to kill

[00:45:30] everyone else because she's been lied to it's just everything gets added and she was responsible

[00:45:36] for her own death really because she went off the deep end but honestly we don't know how

[00:45:47] that she'd been affected at this point like how much they were affected by their surroundings

[00:45:53] by the shimmer because we know further on and with what we saw with Kane the shimmer does

[00:46:00] interact with you and changes you oh absolutely and you know I questioned at one point after I watched

[00:46:08] it the first time which was years ago I questioned whether or not at some point they were being

[00:46:18] replaced by their by their duplicate before like if that situation with Kane had happened with any

[00:46:28] of them and they were just replaced kind of like invasion of the body snatchers but then I decided

[00:46:36] against it yeah I thought it was probably not yeah they're just more yeah just being changed in a

[00:46:43] lot of different ways uh I think their underlying conditions though made it more difficult yeah I

[00:46:52] think it made it easier for them to you know try to for Anyach it was easier for her to disregard

[00:47:02] like she didn't want to accept it she didn't want to accept what she had seen which can you imagine

[00:47:08] oh my god they cut you open and what you see is these it just looked like snakes

[00:47:15] to me and I was just like oh no it was really creepy yeah uh yes they stay there there's kind of

[00:47:27] this rotation they've got like the guard tower uh Ventress is off kind of working on on plans

[00:47:33] and maps and trying to figure out where they're headed and and Lena goes down there to talk to

[00:47:38] her which they're having a really meaningful conversation uh I think it was a really good

[00:47:43] conversation between them that was cut short by a certain creature who just couldn't bear it any longer

[00:47:52] sorry that was bad uh but no because what we do get is yeah the thing that sticks in my mind the

[00:47:58] absolute most when I think of this movie is that freaking bear well because it looked like half

[00:48:03] of his face it looked mutated and dead but you had alive like its face was part of his face

[00:48:10] was missing like I said it reminds me of Maurice from Dead by Daylight a horse that has a third eye and

[00:48:17] but his is dripping blood like it's just it looks real creepy yeah which the first time that you know

[00:48:25] nobody even sees it but that Ventress and Lena and of course Shepard because it pops in and

[00:48:31] snags her a cast uh and and just snags her and leaves yep uh so then like the next day they've

[00:48:39] got to go out kind of assessing that and trying to find her dead or alive um something I have a note

[00:48:47] here uh because they don't really point it out directly but again with the genetic the shimmer

[00:48:55] stuff when Lena is being interviewed by Dr. Lomax do you notice anything about a tattoo that is on

[00:49:03] her arm yeah the oraboris mm-hmm yeah do you what what is there anything especially interesting about

[00:49:12] that tattoo I thought one of the girls had one yeah Lena didn't have that tattoo before she went in

[00:49:19] Anya did that was Anya's yeah genetically it copied onto her skin somehow it's just a little

[00:49:27] like that is like if you could easily miss it kind of yeah that like it shows physical evidence of them

[00:49:34] even splicing into each other just the being in there has just near each other has changed them in

[00:49:39] some ways yeah the fact that Lena developed her Anya's tattoo yeah it's kind of just

[00:49:46] like a blender you know an uh a non-slicing blender that just kind of takes DNA and it

[00:49:55] floats in the air and it mixes with others and yeah it's really it's not something that is

[00:50:03] concrete it's just something that is really fluid yeah yeah so after Shepard's taken the team is ready

[00:50:12] to leave the other girls uh I may like Josie and Anya uh Ventura says that we're gonna continue

[00:50:19] to Lighthouse that's the goal that's what we're here for and so Lena is trying to like play

[00:50:25] mediator a little bit and let's you know let's meet in the middle we continue to the coast

[00:50:30] towards the Lighthouse because that's still the quickest way out uh it's the closest perimeter

[00:50:35] but then as we learn again with those like interviews that was a ploy mm-hmm in her own

[00:50:40] mind again the reason she's here is for her husband yes so she's not leaving without answers

[00:50:46] she's not leaving without some chance at being able to save him or get something so

[00:50:50] she's not gonna leave but it's like she's gonna say what she has to say to get the rest of the

[00:50:54] team to get her there mm-hmm but yeah so she's just kind of she's playing this mediator role

[00:51:00] but yeah it's a ploy she's like she's kind of with Ventress it's like no we're here we're

[00:51:03] getting the mission done she doesn't even know if she can really save Kane I mean he could be

[00:51:10] dead by the time she gets out I mean at that point she really doesn't know what is gonna happen but

[00:51:17] she figures that if she might die trying but at least she's doing something because for a year she

[00:51:24] didn't she really retreated into herself and so this is just giving her an opportunity to go and

[00:51:36] try but I also think it's changing her while she's in there like the whole thing the shimmer is

[00:51:46] an organism that just envelops everything and mixes it together yeah yeah as we see that again

[00:51:52] real-time like physical stuff like Anya her like skin is moving on her hand like and it's making

[00:51:57] her think of that video she watched and so this obviously genetic mutating that's going on and it's

[00:52:03] she's terrified which is another reason that she's kind of lashing out at the others

[00:52:09] it's just because she's scared it's like this like we all handle things differently and hers is

[00:52:14] maybe not the best coping but yeah that's kind of her reaction but it does lead when Lena sees

[00:52:20] this she even goes and like takes samples of her own DNA and is like she realizes that she's altered

[00:52:25] yeah she's like yeah we are all being affected by this but just because we're in here yeah

[00:52:31] and so what do you do at that point do you keep going or do you try to leave

[00:52:36] I don't know yeah and that's that's kind of yeah that's the splitting point between them is Anya

[00:52:41] and Josie are ready to leave at that moment at least while Lena and Ventress are a lot more

[00:52:49] stuck on the mission but again because they have nothing to lose right

[00:52:53] Ventress is dying yeah Ventress has cancer and so like this is her like last hurrah anyway

[00:52:58] she's like I'm dying I'm terminal there's nothing I can do so I might as well maybe make something

[00:53:04] of it in these last moments here with the way that it was affecting DNA how do you know that it wasn't

[00:53:10] adjusting her cancer like putting her into remission because it could have these are the way

[00:53:18] that everything was floating and changing and and evolving in this you know curtain called

[00:53:24] the shimmer behind the curtain all the things are happening yeah so that's yeah I could talk about Anya

[00:53:33] there like so she's she's losing it a little bit maybe reacting to things not the best of course

[00:53:39] then finding out Alina's secret and it just sends her on this dangerous spiral we talked about

[00:53:45] that a little bit her tying the others up and threatening them and then again that is cut short

[00:53:51] again from another interruption from the bear and no not the fictional Chicago restaurant no

[00:53:59] one of the interesting things about this bear though is

[00:54:04] like them it's DNA is affected and they start to hear what they think is shepherd crying to them

[00:54:12] yeah and it's not it's the bear mimicking her yeah it's uh this like I said it's the thing that I

[00:54:22] think of the most of this movie it's the single most impactful scene I mean just the the concept

[00:54:29] and design of the bear is horrifying on its own like it's mutated to appear like the death

[00:54:36] that it causes yeah um it's very skeletal in the face if you actually like it's very dark but if you

[00:54:42] look at some of the designs and like the actual like animatronics and stuff they used there is a

[00:54:46] human skull embedded into the side of its face with like human teeth also in its mouth with its

[00:54:51] own god like it's been eating people and so it is like it has human like skeletal pieces

[00:55:02] and bones and teeth and stuff mixed into its face it's really fucked up and it's disgusting and amazing

[00:55:10] and also because it killed an eight Cassie it mutated with her DNA so then her like dying

[00:55:19] screams and words are embedded into its vocal cords and vocal patterns that mutated and

[00:55:26] uh that's just so and then to make it even worse than Josie has this theory she's you know the possibility

[00:55:33] that Cassie's mind may have also been absorbed into the creature a little bit so it's like

[00:55:39] that's so intense it is I mean the whole premise of this movie and the way that the story was

[00:55:44] into woven is really intriguing like there are different pieces of it that are

[00:55:52] you just question it makes you think about things just the way that everything comes about and the

[00:55:59] way that things are just so fluid and moving aim you know aimlessly within this organism

[00:56:08] but you still

[00:56:12] there was just still something that I didn't connect with in this movie

[00:56:22] I just yeah so where do you sit because I know I don't know if you've mentioned this on this

[00:56:29] yeah easy I mean the first time you watched this movie you said you really didn't like it you

[00:56:32] didn't care for no I didn't when I watched it and I audibly said I really did not like this movie

[00:56:41] so I do wonder has that changed even to some degree on a second watch and looking at it

[00:56:47] at a podcast lens like we do because like I know the ritual you felt the same way you

[00:56:51] didn't like that at all the first time you watched it and then when we covered that in our way

[00:56:55] back in the first season of this podcast you ended up having a lot more of appreciation for

[00:56:59] it oh I did I wonder if this movie is similar to that or if you're still kind of in the same

[00:57:04] place you are I'm not in the same place as I was because watching it again and looking at it from

[00:57:11] a different lens why don't love it I have grown to appreciate a lot of the parts of it

[00:57:22] so I'm in a better place when it comes to this movie but it's not it's not going to be on my

[00:57:29] top 10 list of movies this season right um I thought the acting was great I thought Natalie

[00:57:36] Portman did such a great job of course well she's Natalie Portman I know she can do whatever she can

[00:57:41] do no wrong right anyway and then Jennifer Jason Lee is always is always good incredible

[00:57:47] always I thought the acting overall was fantastic there were just things that I didn't

[00:57:53] I can't put my finger on but I just didn't connect with and I wish I could figure out what it is

[00:58:01] but I can't like I've watched it twice once when it came out and then once for the podcast

[00:58:09] maybe it takes a third watching to figure it out but I didn't yeah I just didn't connect

[00:58:17] and I do like Alex Garland I do like what he creates I think he is a master storyteller

[00:58:25] I think there were just things that I I'm not sure why I can't or wasn't connecting with

[00:58:37] in this movie although I will say I feel better about it now I do feel better about it talking

[00:58:43] about it and breaking down different pieces makes it easier and maybe because we're not done podcasting

[00:58:52] on yet maybe there'll be something that will come up in the rest of the conversation that will make

[00:58:57] me say and that's why I didn't like it yeah or that's why it bothered me or that's why I didn't

[00:59:03] connect with it because it's not a bad movie I just didn't connect with it not like you

[00:59:12] yeah and that doesn't happen very often on this podcast right yeah okay most of the time when we

[00:59:19] watch a movie we come to like connect on it and and have similar feelings this one is not one of

[00:59:29] those times and I knew when you suggested it you said I know what movie we should do

[00:59:37] because this director's got another movie that just came out and I knew exactly where you were going

[00:59:42] with it and I just thought oh boy yeah because you know I love this I know you love it and all

[00:59:48] I could think is okay and this is the time that I'm gonna have to burst pegs bubble

[00:59:54] and tell them that I don't like this movie but it's not that I don't like it it's just

[00:59:59] I didn't connect with it and I'm not really sure why but it wasn't a Daphne movie.

[01:00:07] Right and that's fine yeah Garland is a very abstract writer.

[01:00:12] Yes for sure he is.

[01:00:15] He says as much as I love him he said I just watched men and I appreciate what it was

[01:00:20] so I can feel you because I was like I appreciate what it was but at the end it's like

[01:00:25] it's hard to connect to and it's like it's maybe a little too abstract for me

[01:00:30] but I appreciate what he's doing so I can kind of understand having that feeling with something

[01:00:35] that he does for sure. Yeah and there are directors like that that I cannot connect with

[01:00:39] like I can't connect with their brand of storytelling.

[01:00:45] We've talked about it before I'm sure in the last 170 episodes that I am not a fan of Ari Aster

[01:00:52] but I do know people that think he's fantastic but I can't connect with his movies.

[01:00:58] I need to see more I've only seen Midsummer and it was just okay to me so yeah I did not like Midsummer

[01:01:08] and I don't know if I saw it again if that would help.

[01:01:12] Yeah I don't know like I mean there's one for me that people tend to really love that

[01:01:18] I just can't really connect with his Robert Eggers.

[01:01:21] You've mentioned that before. People love the lighthouse.

[01:01:24] I did not like. I love Willem Dafoe Robert Pattinson's great I did not like that movie I

[01:01:29] didn't care for it. No. What was Eggers more recent one the Northman? Yeah.

[01:01:37] I enjoyed it I thought it was good but it had Eggers-ness to it that I could point out and

[01:01:42] go I don't like that part because that's like that's very Eggers like there's things about

[01:01:46] his style that I'm like I just I don't connect with and I can pull those pieces out of that

[01:01:52] movie. I think it was a great movie overall I did enjoy it but there were some of his

[01:01:56] signatures that were all over it that I was like but there is that like he does that a lot

[01:02:01] and I don't like that so yeah. It rubs you the wrong way. It takes away from the overall

[01:02:07] enjoyment even if you can separate yourself from it you still are left with that little bit

[01:02:13] that's kind of like no it could have been great but there was this I feel like that's

[01:02:21] yeah I think that that's the case sometimes with different directors.

[01:02:25] I like M. Night Shyamalan mostly but I know a lot of people don't like anything that he's done

[01:02:33] right but I think that there are some you know some good ones that he has done.

[01:02:38] Oh for sure. We won't talk about that happening but we did talk about that movie actually and you

[01:02:47] should go back if you have not listened to our coverage of the happening you should definitely

[01:02:52] go back and listen to it because it was one of our most fun conversations ever.

[01:02:59] I feel like we could do more Shyamalan on here. I mean you go back to more classic I mean the

[01:03:03] village is iconic but. Yes signs. Signs is so good. I really like signs but then there's been some

[01:03:11] other ones that yeah not so great even to the point like his reputation got to a place where

[01:03:16] like when Split came out his name was not attached to it publicly until after you saw it

[01:03:22] and then it was like at the end of the movie it was like oh by the way this was Shyamalan

[01:03:25] just so you know and he's like what but it was good. It was good exactly. You don't even realize

[01:03:31] you don't even realize it and I think I think he has a new film that's coming out somewhat soon.

[01:03:41] Oh yeah Trap. Trap and it has Josh Hartnett and I'm not going to spoil anything I'm just

[01:03:48] going to say this man takes his daughter to a concert and there I've watched the trailer

[01:03:59] it looks it has a lot of potential and I'm hopeful. I am hopeful that this one

[01:04:07] is as good as what it looks like. Yeah yeah I don't know I haven't seen anything for him but

[01:04:14] yeah he's kind of here with us there's some really great Shyamalan and then I still haven't

[01:04:18] watched Old just because some of the premises are a little like oh yes.

[01:04:29] Did not like that one. Did not like that one. His daughter Ashana has a movie coming out this

[01:04:38] year she's a director as well and she is directing a movie called The Watchers

[01:04:45] and it has a lot of potential and it has our one of our favorites Georgie and Campbell in it.

[01:04:52] Oh nice. So it's one that will fit into our world so let's be cautiously optimistic but

[01:05:02] to answer your question as I already have I'm in a better place with it it's not one that I

[01:05:09] want to watch again but I do appreciate it more because we're talking about it and there were

[01:05:15] some things that I genuinely did like the creatures were great yeah and the acting was great they were

[01:05:22] just some things with a story that I didn't like. Yeah yeah go back yeah I mean some of the acting

[01:05:28] thing I didn't like I forgot that Tessa Thompson was in this since I had first seen it and I

[01:05:32] was like oh yeah yeah she's always great she's always great Oscar Isaac as much as it kind of

[01:05:38] a more of a smaller role that he was you know it's still very pivotal near the end but

[01:05:44] Alex Garland loves him some Oscar Isaac I mean who doesn't love them some Oscar Isaac but I mean

[01:05:48] because I get X Machina have you seen X Machina because it's another great Garland film. I have

[01:05:54] not seen X Machina but I do know that he likes he likes X Machina people because he has used

[01:06:04] them before like his visual effects folks that did X Machina with him also did effects on this movie.

[01:06:13] He's yeah he's definitely connected I've heard really great things about X Machina I've just

[01:06:19] never seen it. It might be as far as Garland's directal like directorial movies the ones he

[01:06:27] directed as much as I really do like Annihilation I think X Machina is my favorite of his.

[01:06:31] Well that I might have now after seeing Civil War Civil War is up there was really good but

[01:06:36] I know but like X Machina is great. I mean Alicia Vikander Vikander yeah it's great

[01:06:45] it's really good I do I don't think it really fits this podcast at all but I do recommend

[01:06:49] okay our movies that we do enjoy outside of this podcast maybe someday we'll talk about them

[01:06:57] but not this week. Yeah but anyway back on this movie fun directors tangent we got somebody tangent

[01:07:09] yeah we talked about the bear so yeah just that whole again you mentioned Annih kind of

[01:07:13] caused her own death in that situation with it so yeah RIP Annih there and looks like Josie

[01:07:19] apparently is pretty deadly with a gun as well so maybe Lena wasn't the only one that was needed

[01:07:24] for that she's the one that takes the bear out but yeah are we in the story because I jumped to like

[01:07:33] shimmer stuff in the bear but uh well Annih is dead Cassie's dead Josie's great with a gun

[01:07:43] and yeah so then it's yeah so we've got and then Ventress leaves that night

[01:07:49] she's tired of waiting around and like dealing with like the the issues with everybody else

[01:07:54] so she's like I'm headed to the lighthouse right now catch you later but she picked this

[01:08:00] complicated group of people she did okay she picked so much for understanding psychology

[01:08:06] exactly she picked a complicated group of people to go out on this track so that is on her

[01:08:18] right she shouldn't have known about her yeah and then so the next day then Lena and Josie are

[01:08:24] going to get up to go join and then that's when Josie decides to just be a tree instead so yeah

[01:08:29] she's looking at the flowers so now with everybody else dead except Ventress who

[01:08:36] left on her own to get to the lighthouse uh Lena is on her own here uh but then she just

[01:08:43] kind of makes her way down to the to the beach in the lighthouse without really any other issues

[01:08:47] herself oh man just jump jump through them some maybe there's some tower weird stuff in the book

[01:08:52] that they just kind of skipped over but that's fine it's fine uh that beach scene with all the skulls

[01:09:00] that I would not have wanted to go out in that lighthouse when the entrance is paved with skulls

[01:09:08] like right it just it's like abandon all hope ye who enter here

[01:09:17] it doesn't make sense but she did it because she was looking for Ventress she's still looking

[01:09:22] for answers she goes inside and answers she definitely finds uh she makes a lot of huge

[01:09:33] realizations at the lighthouse uh crazy wild realizations but they are what they are uh the

[01:09:41] fact that her husband Cain was duplicated that the one that came out and appeared at her house was

[01:09:47] not Cain she watches this video where the original her husband emulates himself with this phosphorus

[01:09:54] grenade and then tells the duplicate to find Lena if he ever can get out because his mind

[01:10:01] and body are too altered for him to to go on anymore he kind of like what happened to Anya like

[01:10:07] the fact that he is he's coming to grips with how much he's changing and being mutated and

[01:10:12] like he can't live with that right he basically I think loses his mind because he can't he can't

[01:10:20] psychologically live with how he has changed and continues to change so so he's hoping for

[01:10:27] whatever small part of him that may be in this duplicate that's better adapted for this

[01:10:34] till to kind of live on and find his wife and and he's just hoping for something

[01:10:41] uh and then she goes down the like I said the movie's closest approximation or version of the

[01:10:47] tunnel that's in the book um and finds Ventress down there maybe more likely also her duplicate

[01:10:55] uh do you think Ventress off herself maybe we don't really again there's there's a lot of things

[01:11:03] but it's garland so there's gonna be a lot of unanswered questions yeah and maybe that is why

[01:11:09] maybe there are just too many unanswered questions for me maybe that's why I can't connect with

[01:11:14] it maybe that's why I don't love it maybe I can handle unanswered questions but not as many

[01:11:21] as what are left in this yeah that could be it but yeah but talking to this Ventress version of

[01:11:29] interest whatever it is that she's talking to because again why I say that I don't think it was even the

[01:11:34] real Ventress is we see whenever Lena first enters there her face is not there like it's

[01:11:40] like it is like this like the duplicates where they kind of become something and like you can

[01:11:45] see she's not her face isn't finished when she's talking to her so it's not the real

[01:11:49] Ventress whatever happened to her but it's this copy but she still has because of this like duplicates

[01:11:55] so she has some of these memories and thoughts and abilities and understandings of Dr. Ventress so

[01:12:02] she's able to talk to Lena in that way to reveal that whatever this is that's going on it has

[01:12:09] intelligence yes this is a deliberate takeover not necessarily like I said earlier not necessarily

[01:12:17] like nefarious or evil it's just this is what it does yeah and that's where the title you know

[01:12:25] annihilation that's it's plans just to keep expanding expanding until the entire earth is taken over by

[01:12:30] the shimmer and just to to take over uh it's wiping people out it's wiping things out and

[01:12:38] replacing them I mean to me that's kind of what's happening it's wiping it's you know taking them over

[01:12:50] adapting changing and getting rid of them and replacing them if it needs to but I don't think

[01:12:56] it needs to in every case I think the adaptation or a some simulation I guess is working yeah uh

[01:13:07] yeah and then whatever integrated with her took her over it expands into light it's almost like

[01:13:16] she fused with a power source of some kind of alien technology it was very you know but it's

[01:13:22] also biological it's like genetic material that's also technology it's whatever this alien yeah being

[01:13:29] race whatever it is it's so hard because that is a question that isn't answered yeah but I

[01:13:36] believe it's an organism mm-hmm so I'm curious to read the other books in the trilogy to get

[01:13:43] more answers and dive deeper into that stuff good maybe if aspects of it maybe if you can

[01:13:49] answer some of the questions for me then I might appreciate this movie even more yeah

[01:13:54] so get on that right away after doctor sleep after lord of the flies before m r carry

[01:14:03] yeah answer these questions yeah so then Lena see is the same thing that her husband did

[01:14:16] as she's watching the like that videotape before what he did to himself uh this like eyeball

[01:14:22] like entity that takes her dna and then forms a duplicate of her that's whose goal seems to be

[01:14:31] like I we mentioned like learning copying and becoming mm-hmm maybe even replacing uh

[01:14:39] but Lena is able to light it ablaze with another phosphorus grenade uh which then causes this

[01:14:47] chain reaction that seemingly burns the whole nucleus of the shimmer and whatever it is down so

[01:14:54] well it's that action there it taught it to self-destruct which is something it didn't really

[01:15:00] know how to do yeah but humans do you know yeah leave it to humans to to teach some

[01:15:07] high intelligent being how to uh how to self destroy themselves yeah I mean it came up in

[01:15:13] the movie too where yeah they were talking about how humans have this innate ability to

[01:15:20] self-destruct or destroy like it's built into our DNA that's this yeah especially if something's

[01:15:27] going really well that you just somehow find a way to ruin it and I think even if you don't do

[01:15:38] that on purpose I think sometimes that we live in fear of something bad happening so much so that if

[01:15:47] we hyperanalyze it or hyper focus on it or get anxious about it it ends up happening because

[01:15:54] of the stress and anxiety and worry right yeah so then you see with this I was kind of burning

[01:16:05] everything down it's like Lena may have just saved Earth maybe although if I'm to to piece together

[01:16:13] with Alex Garland leaves us with at the end I'm gonna say no I'm gonna say she uh she might have

[01:16:23] put a little bit of a pause on on things she might have bought some time but I don't think she

[01:16:30] actually accomplished much of anything in the ultimate end goal and of course why I think there's

[01:16:37] a very ending of course kind of learned the duplicate of Kane wasn't able to survive outside of the

[01:16:43] shimmer but then I wonder because when it all goes down when it goes down it is able to survive

[01:16:47] like he was he comes back and it's it's it's like the parts that were Kane kind of took over

[01:16:53] yeah like he's still something new but it's viable right now but you know to what extent to what

[01:16:59] end what's the plan maybe what Lena did was just the next step in the evolution that whatever this

[01:17:07] being this organism needed to be able to survive outside of the shimmer you're able to annihilate

[01:17:12] and assimilate and take over better I mean because now we have whatever Kane is

[01:17:20] and then also Lena herself everything that changed in her all the edits the her DNA

[01:17:26] changing and affecting while she was inside that still is in effect that's still an issue like whatever

[01:17:35] being or beings behind everything are still alive and well within her I think it changed so much

[01:17:46] of her and maybe the end game really was for the two of them to be the the new adamany the new

[01:17:53] adamany I mean maybe maybe that's the point is that that is what's supposed to happen

[01:18:00] I've seen people talking online like they think that it wasn't really Lena that came out

[01:18:06] it was her her duplicate but I don't think that at all I don't think it definitely is her

[01:18:11] yeah I think it definitely is her but she has been edited and changed enough

[01:18:15] to where like I said it's almost like the next evolution of whatever this shimmer being is

[01:18:21] yeah also there's one point where she drinks a little bit of water but the water looks like it's

[01:18:27] got a shimmer yeah like she's she's able to still affect other things other things I think

[01:18:34] the shimmer is down she's out but now because of whatever it is is in her and still changing

[01:18:40] her and affecting her that maybe her and Kane 2.0 together are now just the catalysts for

[01:18:49] still affecting and changing and editing things around them and it's going to continue to expand

[01:18:53] anyway well I mean you have to wonder is it like radiation where something that has been

[01:19:02] that's radioactive affects the things that are around it right I mean because there's a very

[01:19:07] deliberate shot at the end where there's like this light and changing in their eyes that

[01:19:12] you see yes it's in both of them and it's kind of that the movie ends on that note of

[01:19:18] there is something within them that is not them yes and that is why people think oh well I think it was

[01:19:25] you know her clone or her duplicate came out no because that doesn't have to happen for her to

[01:19:30] come out and have this look in her eyes or have this shimmer in her because her DNA started

[01:19:37] changing the minute she took a step into the shimmer it's been changing this entire time

[01:19:44] the creatures that were in the shimmer did not the shimmer didn't really create them

[01:19:52] as much as it took what was there and changed it yeah all right so that's I'm trying to think

[01:20:01] that might be because I jumped into some of my other notes but that's all that I've

[01:20:05] really got on like Lena and the main story I talked about all the like shimmer stuff I threw

[01:20:10] it in so only other section I had was like the team and I think we've talked about a lot of it

[01:20:16] we've covered all of that I'm looking at my notes because I mean talked about Jennifer Jason Lee

[01:20:20] I think her portrayal as Dr. Ventress was really really great because her character is meant to be

[01:20:27] cold calculated and professional like exactly how she came across and of course her real reason

[01:20:37] for going in with the the terminal cancer making something happen you know we talked about that

[01:20:41] the others really talked about them other than you know shepherd RAP shepherd we talked about that a

[01:20:47] little bit uh and Josie so yeah so honestly I think I'm good I'm I've finished everything

[01:20:56] uh-huh oh my goodness okay so I have a couple things one the house they went into when

[01:21:03] they were in area X the slash the shimmer looked very similar to Lena's house on the outside

[01:21:11] I thought I did like the mixing between present day and flashback I thought it

[01:21:23] the way they did it made sense yeah and then I had a couple behind the scenes things

[01:21:30] to talk about so annihilation was kind of poorly received during the the test screenings that they

[01:21:41] did so David Ellison who was one of the finance people or he put money forward for the film

[01:21:50] he was really concerned that Garland had made this too intellectual and too complicated

[01:21:56] and so he wanted changes to be made so it would appeal to a wider audience

[01:22:04] Alex Garland intellectual and complicated exactly one of the things he wanted was Natalie Portman's

[01:22:11] character portrayal to be more sympathetic he also wanted him to change the ending however

[01:22:17] Scott Rudin who is producer sided with Garland and they didn't alter a thing they kept it all the

[01:22:30] same I think it's great when a producer gets behind the director and sticks with it and

[01:22:35] focuses on what the the vision is even if I didn't love it I appreciate when

[01:22:45] people get behind the creators I think it's important to do that there was some criticism

[01:22:53] behind the casting because in the book well this is kind of a spoiler so maybe I shouldn't

[01:23:00] say this later on in the book series you learn more about the nationality let's just say that

[01:23:11] Natalie Portman and Jennifer Jason Lee don't match up to those ethnicities

[01:23:21] yeah it's not really a big deal for me I think just like fictional characters unless it's like

[01:23:26] integral right their story and their plot I mean like and again it's not known in this book

[01:23:33] whatever yeah not an annihilation there's no so their names aren't even mentioned it's literally

[01:23:39] as like almost unpersonalized it can be with that is still I when I read a book or I'm listening to a

[01:23:46] book I like to create the picture of who the character is in my head mm-hmm yeah I think I mentioned

[01:23:53] that on a previous podcast that like I kind of like fantasy cast yes in my head sometimes it's

[01:24:00] like people that don't actually exist like I like you just paint like a picture of like and

[01:24:04] and like just a fictional person but then there are sometimes where I literally take

[01:24:09] like actors and public figures and people that I know and be like they would be playing that role

[01:24:14] and so I just kind of I kind of put their face and even voice sometimes into that character

[01:24:20] sometimes so I'm almost I'm like over halfway through Dr. Sleep and still like the the the

[01:24:25] dick holler in flashbacks I'm like still coming to me he's still there

[01:24:29] and you want Sunday when they remake the shining for the hundredth time I think he could play dick

[01:24:36] halloween I mean he could be great for it my brain thinks that it'll work right it works yeah so

[01:24:43] that was part of that issue um so the town that they go into that's kind of been taken over by

[01:24:52] the shimmer is called the veal perdu and it is actually french for lost town so it kind of makes

[01:25:00] sense and the last thing oscar isaac he was filming annihilation in sty wars episode eight the last

[01:25:10] jedi on adjacent studio lots he had the same trailer for both of the films and he would

[01:25:17] often film scenes on the same day for each month can you imagine just having to like to try to play

[01:25:23] both roles and jump back for this two very different things who am I here yeah what is the scene

[01:25:28] I don't know what I'm doing I mean that's pretty good multitasking if you ask me yeah yeah

[01:25:36] so I am all done I've got nothing else to add I have nothing else to add

[01:25:46] nice well yeah so we've we've annihilated the conversation on this movie we got through it

[01:25:54] again I'm glad that you appreciated the movie more but also like I you don't have to just

[01:26:01] like oh my god no you ever know that's fine uh people have opinions for reasons it's fine

[01:26:06] uh I still I think it was a great conversation and then maybe I don't know maybe not on this

[01:26:10] podcast but just in our own personal lives maybe I'll I'll clue you in on some stuff once

[01:26:15] I get through the rest of it I would love that because I would like to know more there are

[01:26:22] there are questions I guess that I would love to have fleshed out and I know because like the

[01:26:29] whole trilogy was like a decade yeah and and apparently a lot of people still I guess you

[01:26:37] know van der meren and garland are similar in those ways a lot of people were not happy with the way that

[01:26:43] acceptance ended like the third book in the trilogy where the heat like there was still a

[01:26:49] lot of unanswered questions and open endings that people were frustrated about like I still

[01:26:53] need to know about that and this wasn't answered and this wasn't finished and so that's why

[01:26:58] over a decade later he is releasing the fourth book finally later this year

[01:27:03] and so it's kind of it's a perfect time for me to jump in and read the whole trilogy and then

[01:27:08] because I've already pre-ordered the fourth one so when it comes out in October then hopefully I can

[01:27:12] I don't have to be as frustrated as the other readers who have waited 10 years to get these

[01:27:16] answers that he's going to wrap up in this book because there's another writer that we all know

[01:27:23] who hasn't finished a book that everyone's been waiting for so it's great that he's going

[01:27:29] finish the book or create the book at all. So I'll be curious to get through all that but

[01:27:36] yeah another thing I'm curious about of course though is a

[01:27:49] all right we do have a little bit of feedback this week for two movies we got Annihilation this

[01:27:54] week and we've got one more for last or two weeks ago actually we took a little bit of a break

[01:28:01] for Final Girl we've got some last minute one there coming through Catherine of course

[01:28:07] getting that one so I'll go ahead and read that one first Catherine for Final Girl says

[01:28:12] which is actually she wrote in for that one this is kind of a follow-up on our response to

[01:28:16] her feedback from that one that's what happens when you get two weeks between. Yes

[01:28:20] I realize that yeah so she says I loved the episode all the criticism was well deserved

[01:28:25] I still liked the last 20 minutes especially the hunt in the woods but could skip most of the rest

[01:28:32] my second watch to catch plot points that turned out to be plot holes was on one and a half speed

[01:28:37] but it wasn't fast enough to miss the weird scenes between William and Veronica I'm not sure

[01:28:41] if it's poor choice or coincidence that the thumbnail for the youtube trailer is from

[01:28:44] the pancake scene it is I could watch Final Girl again but I'll probably speed it up a bit faster

[01:28:50] until the wood scene and I might skip the pancakes completely I feel like we could make this a short

[01:28:55] movie uh and cut out a lot of things right it could be like a 20 25 minute movie it might be better

[01:29:04] right I think so well moving on to our feedback from Annihilation Harrison said

[01:29:12] love the creativity of this one I thought it was one of the better sci-fi movies of the past few years

[01:29:18] yes and I would tend to agree maybe not Daphne but I would yeah not my favorite but

[01:29:27] I did grow to appreciate some of it yeah um and then I get a double dose of Catherine for my reading

[01:29:34] today which is good because lastly she's got her annihilation feedback saying oh I could remember

[01:29:39] about my first annihilation watch where the alligator and bear attacks and they're still

[01:29:43] my favorite scenes the shimmer is so beautiful and the overall story was great but it was a bit

[01:29:48] confusing the jumping back and forth in time was distracting as I just wanted to stay in the shimmer

[01:29:52] and I didn't care for most of the characters it wasn't until the animal attack scenes that

[01:29:56] I felt anything for them I'm looking forward to this week's breakdown as this is a movie that

[01:30:00] I think would be much better with a deeper analysis yeah I'm wondering Catherine if you agree

[01:30:06] more with Paik or my assessment of this film yeah so again you might have to do another follow-up

[01:30:12] we you're the you're the kind of feedback that then requires like homework and follow-up

[01:30:17] definitely that's okay because yeah I'm curious as you said you might enjoy it more with deeper

[01:30:22] analysis because I know we even talked about a little bit more of the like underlying subplots

[01:30:26] and stuff that were more the mental kind of stuff behind as well so yeah maybe that

[01:30:31] helped flesh out things a little bit more I don't know let us know yeah well if you'd like

[01:30:37] to submit your feedback like Harrison or Catherine you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at

[01:30:43] Run Fear Lies podcast can email us at runfearliespodcastedgmail.com and if you're enjoying the show

[01:30:50] tell your friends we are available on all the other podcast players including Apple Spotify and

[01:30:56] YouTube you can go to runfearliespodcast.com for all the links you'll ever need and give us a review

[01:31:03] on Apple Podcasts that is the best way to share the love and get us out there even more we really

[01:31:08] appreciate it we do indeed and of course speaking of sharing the love gotta give those shout-outs

[01:31:13] of things going on in the podcastica universe around us ah see that's the first time I've

[01:31:19] said it that way and I kind of like that I might say that of course we go outside of

[01:31:22] podcastica a little bit so the extended universe yes the things that are in our orbit but yeah

[01:31:27] podcastica of course since we did take last week off of a release I'm gonna kind of fill in on

[01:31:34] different stuff that's happening like the last two weeks of podcastica stuff so get ready a lot

[01:31:38] of good stuff to check out of course the cast of us putting out some good stuff with Civil War

[01:31:46] the Alex Garland movie and I know I talked about this even early on at the beginning of this

[01:31:50] episode um so that is still up for you to go check out with Jason David and Jim talking about that one

[01:31:58] uh which the Alex Garland Civil War movie was great definitely if you enjoyed that check that out

[01:32:04] and then also after that the uh walking dead rewatch like spoiler full rewatch from the

[01:32:11] beginning that Jason and Lucy have been doing uh while waiting for other stuff to go on over

[01:32:16] there and for the last of us to come back has continued and so they are about halfway through

[01:32:22] season two episode eight Nebraska which yeah remember that one well um so yeah so if you're

[01:32:29] following along there I want to follow along with the walking dead rewatch for Jason and Lucy

[01:32:33] that's where they're at go check that out and then on house podcastica we have Karen Penney

[01:32:40] and if you remember the get out episode you know he's a huge Marvel fan Rinaldi joining

[01:32:44] them over there to talk about the 2021 MCU film Eternals um was a very different MCU movie but I

[01:32:53] actually really liked it because it was so different so maybe they had similar thoughts I

[01:32:57] haven't checked that out yet but yeah you should go check that one out because I know that's going

[01:33:00] to be a really interesting conversation still slaying the Buffy fan cast still going on

[01:33:10] still season three ripping through those episodes 17 this week enemies and they are joined by Randy

[01:33:17] there's a special guest over there to talk through that one of course Randy as you know Helms alongside

[01:33:23] Jenny and Rob the welcome to the apocalypse podcast we always talk about that every chance we get

[01:33:29] to the improv comedy apocalyptic podcast which is coming up on its end uh the next episode

[01:33:37] after this one you can go listen to the episode I'm plugging now and then there will be one more

[01:33:41] coming in a few weeks will be their season finale then they'll take a little time off but as the

[01:33:47] penultimate penultimates are always great so you got to go listen to this one to see how they set

[01:33:51] up for what's going to happen in the finale our good friend Jeff is with them uh in this one

[01:33:56] and it's it's wild it's a blast callbacks getting ready to get to come up I'm not

[01:34:01] going to spoil anything but if you've fallen along gotta listen to this one again it's so

[01:34:05] good it was so good and I am dying for the finale but I also do not want the finale to come because

[01:34:11] I don't want a break I need more yes I need way more all the time I love what they're doing over

[01:34:18] there let's see uh what is from it's a show it's on mgm plus and it's a really good one

[01:34:24] uh and the podcast on podcast get forward is called what is from cast and that is Alex and

[01:34:30] Lizzie and the trailer for season three has dropped I haven't watched it because I'm not a trailer

[01:34:36] person I try to go in unspoiled but if you're not like me and you really are you one of those

[01:34:41] people that loves to dig into the trailers and look for all the clues and all the little bits

[01:34:45] and meaty pieces of what's going to happen like Alex and Lizzie are then you can go check out

[01:34:50] their coverage of that trailer where they put a whole episode watching that trailer talking about

[01:34:54] the trailer and digging in to try to find as many clues as they could to see what what could

[01:35:00] they maybe expect in the upcoming season and again I don't I avoid that kind of stuff but I'm that kind

[01:35:06] of person but I am very excited for season three of from and to see what happens so go check out

[01:35:11] their podcast again watch from if you have it it's incredible catch up on their podcast and when

[01:35:15] season three comes you're gonna love their coverage they're devoted to that show and the

[01:35:19] best ways they're so good at it so definitely check that out yeah and you know they just wrapped

[01:35:24] up filming so you know we're getting closer yes and then you can check out the Sandman cast with

[01:35:33] Mark and Jamie as they are going into the Sandman spin-off show Dead Boy Detectives over on Netflix

[01:35:40] so their first episode is up now with episode one go check that out you are a fan of that as

[01:35:46] well great shows uh revisited on a little bit of a break but it's coming back May 20th so

[01:35:53] in like two weeks yeah not boy as you're listening to this yeah uh 10 days next week next week yeah

[01:36:04] next weekend um and then lastly of course like I said a little outside of podcastica but always

[01:36:10] give some love and a shout out to our good friends at the podcast all right tv podcast industries

[01:36:16] because they are always working on great shows also doing Dead Boy Detectives on Netflix

[01:36:20] and then also their huge Star Wars nerds like me and you can go check out their Bad Batch series

[01:36:27] finale coverage that came out in the past couple weeks I haven't got there yet I'm catching up

[01:36:32] I'm in the third season I'm in the final season of Bad Batch and oh my god it's been quite the ride

[01:36:38] and now I'm scared to see how this thing ends but if you already have beaten me to

[01:36:41] that punch because I'm late and you need some therapy go listen to them over tv podcast

[01:36:47] industries because I again I haven't seen the finale but I already know I'm like

[01:36:51] it's gonna be the most emotional thing that Star Wars is trying to pull why is Star Wars

[01:36:55] animation so goddamn emotional and so good but yeah go check it out and yeah that's

[01:37:02] that's pretty much everything else going on around us but you can always come back here

[01:37:08] to run for your lives next week for some more fresh good stuff what do we got and I know we

[01:37:12] teased it two weeks ago in the last episode but if you didn't pay attention you weren't

[01:37:16] listening or here for that definitely you'll give you a refresher well we're doing something extra

[01:37:22] special when we started run for your lives four years ago our very first episode was covering

[01:37:29] the movie tremors a lot has changed since we dropped that first episode and we decided to go

[01:37:36] back and cover tremors with the lens that we use now which is more character-driven analysis

[01:37:43] and discussion so we are going to do tremors the 1990 film that was directed by Ron Underwood

[01:37:53] stars Kevin Bacon Fred Ward and Michael Gross and an action hero however unlikely

[01:38:01] was born from this film and a franchise of seven movies total became a cult phenomenon

[01:38:10] so we're very excited to go back and cover this one again yeah it'd be interesting to revisit

[01:38:19] or do our own little revisited of tremors from the beginning with a different style

[01:38:25] different looking a lot of different experiences since that time yeah a lot has changed and so

[01:38:31] we're going to break it down in our run for your lives way and share some of the insight that

[01:38:40] we've learned over the last couple years yeah and with that we've reached the end of our episode

[01:38:49] thanks everyone for listening I'm Daphne and I'm Peyke and if you have to run

[01:38:55] you better run for your lives

[01:38:58] bye bye