11: "Front Man" (Squid Game S1E8)

[00:00:00] Bom, dlg 叻,u 日本哥bum, 從西亞的都大 未經病

[00:00:09] 啊, 難道,它會超過我?

[00:00:12] 啊, 因為它不會超過我?

[00:00:16] 嘛,都, 都, 還沒說嗎?

[00:00:20] 都,有這種鬼?

[00:00:22] 但是, 啊, 而且, experiment

[00:00:26] 我

[00:00:27] 但是你還好

[00:00:32] 我剛才說

[00:00:34] 你怎麼會這樣

[00:00:37] 你怎麼會這樣

[00:00:39] 我現在不來

[00:00:47] 你不要

[00:00:48] 你不要

[00:00:48] 你不要

[00:00:50] 你別害我

[00:00:52] 別害我

[00:00:54] 你別害我

[00:00:56] 菁姐的聲音

[00:00:58] 這片就是...

[00:00:59] 噌牛

[00:01:00] 噌牛

[00:01:01] 噌牛

[00:01:02] 噌牛

[00:01:04] 噌牛

[00:01:05] 噌牛

[00:01:06] 噌牛

[00:01:08] 噌牛

[00:01:09] 噌牛

[00:01:10] 噌牛

[00:01:11] 噌牛

[00:01:12] 噌牛

[00:01:13] 噌牛

[00:01:15] 噌牛

[00:01:16] 噌牛

[00:01:18] 噌牛

[00:01:19] 噌牛

[00:01:20] 噌牛

[00:01:22] 嘿, 各位觀眾大家好, 我是 Jason

[00:01:25] 我係David

[00:01:26] 我係Bronica

[00:01:27] 我係 this episode

[00:01:28] covered in Squid Game

[00:01:29] season 1 episode 8

[00:01:31] frontman

[00:01:33] 我係 almost done

[00:01:34] two more

[00:01:35] one more episode after this

[00:01:37] I wanted to mention first that

[00:01:38] David and his wife

[00:01:40] Karen

[00:01:41] and my wife Jenny

[00:01:42] and my son Nico

[00:01:43] and I all did

[00:01:44] the Squid Game VR

[00:01:46] a couple of days ago

[00:01:47] How was it

[00:01:49] It was really fun

[00:01:50] I thought we would talk about it

[00:01:51] in the new segment

[00:01:52] just chat about

[00:01:53] what stood out to us

[00:01:55] sound good David

[00:01:57] sounds good

[00:01:58] it exceeded my expectations

[00:01:59] I thought it was really fun

[00:02:01] yeah

[00:02:02] nice

[00:02:02] nice too

[00:02:03] I'm glad you're both still living

[00:02:05] and still friends

[00:02:05] It wasn't real

[00:02:06] it turned out

[00:02:07] yeah

[00:02:09] which is a very good thing

[00:02:12] yeah that's a very good thing

[00:02:14] then it would not have exceeded

[00:02:15] our expectations

[00:02:16] it would have met them

[00:02:17] no

[00:02:18] so let's get into this

[00:02:19] week's episodes

[00:02:19] Squid Game season 1 episode 8

[00:02:21] frontman

[00:02:22] David

[00:02:23] would you like to read the summary?

[00:02:24] Sure

[00:02:25] as finalists

[00:02:26] Gihun Sangwu and

[00:02:28] Sebiow are given a change

[00:02:29] of outfit to formal clothes

[00:02:32] Sebiow hides a severe

[00:02:34] stab wound she received

[00:02:35] from the Glassbridge explosion

[00:02:37] after eating dinner

[00:02:38] each player is left

[00:02:39] with a steak knife

[00:02:41] Gihun suggests

[00:02:42] to Sebiow that they should

[00:02:43] ally against Sangwu

[00:02:44] realizing he will do

[00:02:46] anything to win

[00:02:47] Sebiow instead

[00:02:48] begs Gihun to promise

[00:02:50] that whoever wins the game

[00:02:51] will look after the others

[00:02:52] loved ones

[00:02:53] Gihun goes to kill

[00:02:54] Sangwu when he falls asleep

[00:02:56] but Sebiow stops him

[00:02:58] telling him

[00:02:59] he is not a murderer

[00:03:01] Sebiow's injury

[00:03:02] worsens

[00:03:03] prompting Gihun to call for help

[00:03:05] when Gihun is away

[00:03:06] Sangwu kills Sebiow

[00:03:08] and the guards

[00:03:09] arrive only to collect her corpse

[00:03:12] furious

[00:03:12] furious and heartbroken

[00:03:14] Gihun tries

[00:03:15] to attack Sangwu

[00:03:16] but is prevented by the guards

[00:03:19] meanwhile

[00:03:20] Junho makes it to another island

[00:03:22] but is quickly tracked

[00:03:23] down by the frontman

[00:03:24] and the guards

[00:03:26] to Junho's shock

[00:03:27] the frontman reveals himself

[00:03:28] to be his brother

[00:03:30] Inho

[00:03:31] who tries to recruit him

[00:03:33] when he refuses

[00:03:34] Inho shoots Junho

[00:03:35] in the shoulder

[00:03:36] causing him to fall back

[00:03:38] over a cliff edge

[00:03:39] and into the sea

[00:03:41] splash

[00:03:43] never to be seen again

[00:03:45] no just kidding

[00:03:45] I'm sure he'll do it back

[00:03:47] so i'm gonna admit

[00:03:48] here that

[00:03:49] I didn't realize they were on a different island

[00:03:51] I thought they were on the same island

[00:03:53] I did too

[00:03:54] I thought he'd just like

[00:03:54] swim around

[00:03:55] I was like what

[00:03:56] it's another island

[00:03:57] yeah

[00:03:58] yeah

[00:04:00] okay

[00:04:00] yeah

[00:04:00] I thought

[00:04:01] they'd gotten

[00:04:02] he'd gotten to the mainland

[00:04:03] because

[00:04:05] he called for

[00:04:07] backup

[00:04:08] and

[00:04:09] I don't know why

[00:04:10] but I just assumed

[00:04:11] that did not

[00:04:12] intel

[00:04:12] driving a boat out to an island

[00:04:14] but I guess it could have

[00:04:15] he's

[00:04:15] did call the Coast Guard though

[00:04:18] yeah

[00:04:18] but they're on the coast

[00:04:20] but

[00:04:21] he also called for everyone

[00:04:22] right

[00:04:23] send everyone

[00:04:24] I think

[00:04:25] yeah

[00:04:25] yeah

[00:04:28] so i don't know

[00:04:28] maybe this is wrong

[00:04:29] it could be wrong

[00:04:30] that could still be on the same island

[00:04:32] you guys could be right

[00:04:33] I'm not 100% sure about that

[00:04:34] it just got it from Wikipedia

[00:04:37] but um

[00:04:38] what did you think about

[00:04:39] watching this one again

[00:04:41] to Veronica

[00:04:42] you were first

[00:04:44] yeah

[00:04:44] I mean

[00:04:45] just was with ever other episode

[00:04:46] I liked it

[00:04:47] but this was definitely

[00:04:49] a much quieter, slower,

[00:04:51] paste

[00:04:52] episode

[00:04:53] for me it felt like

[00:04:55] than some of the others

[00:04:56] and I don't know

[00:04:57] if it's just because

[00:04:58] I cognitively know we're

[00:04:59] getting close to the end

[00:05:02] but to me it just

[00:05:03] felt

[00:05:04] slow

[00:05:04] and quiet

[00:05:06] which isn't a bad thing

[00:05:07] it just had a different

[00:05:08] field to me

[00:05:10] and I just felt very sad

[00:05:11] afterwards

[00:05:12] yeah

[00:05:14] it didn't feel slow to me

[00:05:16] I mean

[00:05:16] they were just sitting there at

[00:05:18] dinner

[00:05:18] for a lot of it

[00:05:20] but

[00:05:20] it was

[00:05:21] cut in her cut

[00:05:22] with

[00:05:23] June hoping chased by guards

[00:05:24] and also

[00:05:25] there was just a lot going on

[00:05:27] even though

[00:05:27] they were

[00:05:28] just sitting there

[00:05:30] so I

[00:05:30] didn't think of it that way

[00:05:32] I guess I could see why

[00:05:32] you would say that though

[00:05:33] I guess not like

[00:05:34] as in a complete way

[00:05:36] of slow

[00:05:36] like I still

[00:05:37] held my interest

[00:05:38] I was watching the whole time

[00:05:39] but it just felt

[00:05:41] even

[00:05:42] I noticed

[00:05:42] even

[00:05:43] like the lights were generally

[00:05:44] lower

[00:05:45] that's true

[00:05:46] and music

[00:05:46] was generally

[00:05:48] even though

[00:05:48] like in the stairwell

[00:05:49] they were playing the same song

[00:05:52] but it felt like a piece

[00:05:53] of the song

[00:05:54] that was slower

[00:05:55] and they had even

[00:05:56] possibly slowed the tempo

[00:05:58] just a little bit

[00:05:58] like everything

[00:05:59] just felt

[00:06:02] muffled a little bit

[00:06:03] and it's

[00:06:04] there's just this feeling

[00:06:04] of emptiness

[00:06:05] because almost everyone's gone too

[00:06:07] and the norm is so spare

[00:06:10] and everything

[00:06:10] and I think all of that works

[00:06:12] together

[00:06:12] like it felt

[00:06:13] appropriate

[00:06:14] yeah

[00:06:15] you David

[00:06:17] yeah

[00:06:17] I thought it was great

[00:06:18] as pretty much as they all are

[00:06:20] it is another transitional episode

[00:06:22] in the sense

[00:06:23] that it's less about action

[00:06:24] and there's no actual gain

[00:06:27] but we do get a big reveal

[00:06:29] of Yunho's brother

[00:06:31] being the frontman

[00:06:33] and we get the very compelling story

[00:06:35] of the three remaining contestants

[00:06:37] who have

[00:06:38] kind of been our main characters

[00:06:40] through a lot of the show

[00:06:41] and I think this one

[00:06:43] has

[00:06:44] several of the episodes

[00:06:46] are as really

[00:06:47] about relationship

[00:06:48] hairs

[00:06:49] Songwoo and Gihun

[00:06:51] Gihun and Sabio

[00:06:52] and Yunho

[00:06:53] and his brother

[00:06:54] the frontman

[00:06:54] yeah

[00:06:57] just thinking about how

[00:06:58] everyone's almost everyone's gone

[00:07:02] it makes me wonder if

[00:07:06] you know

[00:07:06] if season two is structured

[00:07:08] at all like this season

[00:07:09] where we're going to go

[00:07:10] through another set of games

[00:07:12] which I

[00:07:13] think we would

[00:07:15] are we going to be less inclined

[00:07:17] to get attached to the characters

[00:07:20] because now I'm like wow

[00:07:21] we watched all this stories

[00:07:23] and they're gone

[00:07:23] and it

[00:07:25] you think about

[00:07:26] mostly like Ali

[00:07:28] and I guess the old man

[00:07:30] and it's like

[00:07:31] oh I got attached

[00:07:32] and now they're gone

[00:07:33] that hurts

[00:07:34] I don't know

[00:07:35] we'll see

[00:07:36] it's a really interesting

[00:07:37] challenge how you even make

[00:07:39] a second season of this show

[00:07:41] I know

[00:07:42] uh

[00:07:42] it

[00:07:44] in a sense a perfect first season

[00:07:46] but I

[00:07:47] I think I felt the same way

[00:07:48] about Westworld

[00:07:50] the first season of that

[00:07:51] is almost perfectly crafted

[00:07:55] self-contained season

[00:07:57] yeah

[00:07:57] and I felt like how are they

[00:07:58] going to do this

[00:07:59] again

[00:08:00] but they found a way

[00:08:01] and the second season

[00:08:03] was a

[00:08:04] sort of a puzzle

[00:08:05] in a different way

[00:08:06] and it was very cleverly put together

[00:08:08] it was really really good

[00:08:09] if maybe not quite as good

[00:08:11] as the first season

[00:08:12] but I think it's a big challenge

[00:08:14] to keep it original and fresh

[00:08:16] and not just do the same thing again

[00:08:18] so you're saying

[00:08:19] Squid Game should not have a third season

[00:08:21] basically

[00:08:23] that show definitely

[00:08:25] declined markedly

[00:08:26] after season two

[00:08:27] yeah

[00:08:28] I'm going way off track here

[00:08:29] but I'm going to mention anyway

[00:08:31] because um

[00:08:31] David and I did our Westworld cast

[00:08:33] and we covered the first two seasons

[00:08:35] of that show

[00:08:35] and it was a lot of fun

[00:08:36] and we really really got into the

[00:08:38] the details of it

[00:08:39] and we talked a lot about

[00:08:40] bootstrapping consciousness

[00:08:42] you know how

[00:08:43] if you saw Westworld

[00:08:44] there were these

[00:08:46] what do they call them hosts

[00:08:47] but they're basically like

[00:08:48] Androids

[00:08:49] and but they end up

[00:08:51] developing consciousness

[00:08:52] and now

[00:08:53] with all the AI happening

[00:08:55] I can't help but think about that

[00:08:56] and wonder if we're

[00:08:57] bootstrapping consciousness now

[00:08:59] you know

[00:09:01] well it is a recursive loop

[00:09:03] in the way technology develops

[00:09:05] because

[00:09:05] the people developing

[00:09:06] the technology

[00:09:07] read and watch all the same

[00:09:09] sci-fi all the rest of us do

[00:09:12] so

[00:09:12] I think some of the ideas

[00:09:14] come from their

[00:09:15] and vice versa

[00:09:16] it's not like sci-fi

[00:09:17] only takes ideas from the real world

[00:09:18] real world takes ideas from

[00:09:20] sci-fi absolutely

[00:09:21] I know

[00:09:22] I mean if we

[00:09:23] come when we were little kids

[00:09:25] time traveled to now

[00:09:26] and saw that we were actually

[00:09:27] video chatting on our

[00:09:28] little rectangles

[00:09:29] that

[00:09:30] filled totally sci-fi

[00:09:32] yep

[00:09:32] and only Dic Tracy did stuff like that

[00:09:34] anyway

[00:09:34] like I said

[00:09:35] I was way off track

[00:09:35] let's get into our

[00:09:36] fucked up moment of the week

[00:09:37] Veronica

[00:09:39] I kind of went back and forth

[00:09:40] because I think there's an obvious

[00:09:42] one for the week

[00:09:43] but I'll leave that for someone else

[00:09:44] and I think I just felt

[00:09:46] really

[00:09:47] disgusted

[00:09:49] and felt like it was super fucked up

[00:09:51] that

[00:09:52] they were having to sit down

[00:09:54] to this really

[00:09:55] opulent dinner

[00:09:57] celebrating their

[00:09:59] success in the games

[00:10:01] and so they're

[00:10:02] eating this

[00:10:03] victor's dinner

[00:10:06] reflecting on all the people

[00:10:08] that have died

[00:10:09] so that they could sit there

[00:10:10] I don't know to

[00:10:11] meet that felt

[00:10:12] really psychologically

[00:10:13] fucked up

[00:10:14] which

[00:10:15] maybe is worse

[00:10:16] since some of the other

[00:10:18] also really terrible moments

[00:10:19] this week

[00:10:20] as a player

[00:10:21] I could almost see myself going

[00:10:23] what do you guys

[00:10:24] thinking

[00:10:24] fuck you

[00:10:24] but I'm going to eat this

[00:10:25] it looks great

[00:10:26] I'm hungry

[00:10:28] they haven't had a lot to eat

[00:10:30] yeah

[00:10:30] since they've been there

[00:10:33] that's a good one David

[00:10:34] yeah

[00:10:36] like you Veronica

[00:10:37] I think there were

[00:10:38] definitely several candidates

[00:10:40] this week

[00:10:40] but

[00:10:42] my choice would be

[00:10:43] the guards

[00:10:44] clearing up

[00:10:45] every aspect

[00:10:46] of that fancy meal

[00:10:48] when they're done

[00:10:49] and leaving the knife

[00:10:52] that was pretty fucked up

[00:10:53] that's what I thought too

[00:10:56] yeah

[00:10:57] it was like

[00:10:58] oh

[00:10:58] there's always a hidden meaning

[00:11:00] in any

[00:11:01] they never just do anything nice

[00:11:02] for them

[00:11:03] it was so

[00:11:04] yeah

[00:11:05] because I remember watching

[00:11:06] at the first time being like

[00:11:08] okay

[00:11:09] this is a dinner

[00:11:10] you know

[00:11:11] it's a little bit of a rest

[00:11:12] but when's the other

[00:11:13] shoe going to drop

[00:11:14] what

[00:11:14] is this really about

[00:11:15] and then when that happened

[00:11:16] like okay

[00:11:17] and I thought maybe they

[00:11:18] were just

[00:11:18] fight it out in the moment

[00:11:20] but

[00:11:21] it was just

[00:11:21] for

[00:11:22] to add some tension

[00:11:23] for the night

[00:11:24] I guess

[00:11:25] that was

[00:11:26] one of mine too

[00:11:27] I mean

[00:11:29] the obvious

[00:11:29] well

[00:11:29] I usually just go

[00:11:30] for the obvious one

[00:11:31] which is

[00:11:32] saying we're killing

[00:11:33] say beok

[00:11:33] as

[00:11:35] Ki-Hoon is going

[00:11:36] to try to get help

[00:11:38] that was pretty awful

[00:11:40] and

[00:11:41] a little unbelievable

[00:11:42] that they would

[00:11:43] be all lined up

[00:11:44] and ready

[00:11:44] with the coffin

[00:11:45] like where they waiting there

[00:11:46] maybe that's why

[00:11:47] they gave them the knives

[00:11:48] because they were like

[00:11:49] well we need two players

[00:11:50] for the next

[00:11:52] contest

[00:11:53] so let's give these knives

[00:11:54] until there's two players left

[00:11:56] yeah

[00:11:56] and I

[00:11:57] I felt also

[00:11:58] and it

[00:11:58] it doesn't change anything

[00:11:59] about what song we did

[00:12:01] but

[00:12:01] she probably was going to die

[00:12:03] anyway

[00:12:04] so they might have been

[00:12:04] there waiting

[00:12:05] because of that

[00:12:06] yeah

[00:12:07] I mean

[00:12:08] what it does change

[00:12:10] for me

[00:12:10] is

[00:12:12] song we could have just waited

[00:12:14] you know

[00:12:14] I guess he didn't want to take the risk

[00:12:16] that she would pull through

[00:12:17] but

[00:12:17] yeah

[00:12:17] oh I'm not

[00:12:18] really

[00:12:18] the writers really wanted us

[00:12:19] rooting against song we're here

[00:12:21] yeah

[00:12:21] I'm not saying it

[00:12:22] excuse

[00:12:22] is what you did

[00:12:24] but

[00:12:24] but that could be why

[00:12:25] they're waiting with the coffin

[00:12:26] it just

[00:12:28] changes it

[00:12:28] it makes it even more

[00:12:29] fucked up

[00:12:29] that he did that

[00:12:31] to me

[00:12:32] all right

[00:12:33] Veronica

[00:12:33] you want to go first

[00:12:35] um

[00:12:36] yeah

[00:12:37] I think that

[00:12:38] I

[00:12:39] will just start

[00:12:40] closely

[00:12:40] beginning and just

[00:12:41] sort of the reveal

[00:12:42] of

[00:12:43] Sabialk

[00:12:44] and

[00:12:45] her injury

[00:12:47] and

[00:12:48] we saw

[00:12:48] at the end of last episode

[00:12:51] the look on her face

[00:12:53] like something had happened

[00:12:54] and so I had the

[00:12:55] I couldn't remember

[00:12:56] what happened

[00:12:57] to her how she died

[00:12:58] but I did have the fear

[00:13:01] that it was from the glass

[00:13:02] at the end of last episode

[00:13:04] when she sort of makes this face

[00:13:05] and looks

[00:13:06] pained

[00:13:08] and I think

[00:13:10] I don't know

[00:13:10] I think everything

[00:13:12] just going back to what I said

[00:13:13] about how this was

[00:13:14] a more muted episode

[00:13:16] there wasn't a ton of dialogue

[00:13:18] not that we get a huge ton

[00:13:19] of dialogue in the show

[00:13:21] anyways

[00:13:21] but

[00:13:22] that entire scene

[00:13:24] I feel like she said so much

[00:13:26] like she gave herself a pep

[00:13:28] talking the meter

[00:13:29] but she didn't actually say anything

[00:13:32] right

[00:13:33] she's standing there

[00:13:34] there's a blood everywhere

[00:13:35] and she's

[00:13:36] leaning over the sink

[00:13:37] she's got herself wrapped back up again

[00:13:40] like bandaged up with her shirt

[00:13:42] and she's trying to get changed

[00:13:43] into this tux

[00:13:45] and she just takes a moment

[00:13:47] where she really

[00:13:47] looks herself in the eye

[00:13:49] in the mirror

[00:13:50] and I feel like I could just hear her

[00:13:51] like

[00:13:52] being like

[00:13:52] you've got to survive

[00:13:54] you've got to make it through this

[00:13:56] you made it this far

[00:13:58] you cannot die

[00:13:59] from this injury right now

[00:14:01] I don't know

[00:14:02] I just found it really powerful

[00:14:04] I've connected so much

[00:14:05] I just love her

[00:14:06] character throughout

[00:14:07] and

[00:14:08] I think she's been really powerful

[00:14:11] without having to say a whole lot

[00:14:13] throughout the entire show

[00:14:15] and seeing her

[00:14:16] in that moment

[00:14:17] I don't know

[00:14:18] it was really

[00:14:19] sad

[00:14:20] and

[00:14:21] touching

[00:14:21] and just still

[00:14:22] like

[00:14:23] showed her

[00:14:24] immense power of spirit

[00:14:25] she's this pretty slight

[00:14:28] female character

[00:14:29] this slight young woman

[00:14:32] but she's actually

[00:14:33] very very strong

[00:14:34] and very powerful

[00:14:35] and I just felt like

[00:14:37] even in this small scene

[00:14:38] of her in the bathroom

[00:14:40] that all of that

[00:14:42] was sort of displayed

[00:14:43] and I just felt

[00:14:44] like it was a

[00:14:46] good episode

[00:14:47] to sort of see her out with

[00:14:49] I don't know

[00:14:52] I was kind of thinking

[00:14:53] if

[00:14:53] if

[00:14:55] if I had to

[00:14:58] choose who

[00:14:59] would win

[00:15:00] of the three of them

[00:15:01] I might

[00:15:02] choose her

[00:15:04] it would

[00:15:05] be hard to not

[00:15:06] choose Gihun

[00:15:07] but she seems

[00:15:09] the most

[00:15:09] the least

[00:15:11] flawed

[00:15:12] as far as we know

[00:15:13] you know

[00:15:14] yeah like

[00:15:15] she got into

[00:15:16] trouble

[00:15:17] and is it a financial

[00:15:18] hard spot

[00:15:19] because she tried

[00:15:19] to help save her

[00:15:20] family

[00:15:21] and is still trying to

[00:15:22] to

[00:15:24] you know we saw

[00:15:26] Gihun's bad behavior

[00:15:28] early on

[00:15:29] and I'm not saying

[00:15:30] that all of his

[00:15:32] financial problems

[00:15:33] are all completely his fault

[00:15:34] he had bad circumstances

[00:15:36] but

[00:15:37] absolutely

[00:15:37] he has

[00:15:38] she's even more redeemable

[00:15:40] I think

[00:15:40] than he is

[00:15:41] in terms of

[00:15:42] how they sort of ended up here

[00:15:44] and how they handled the

[00:15:45] real world

[00:15:46] after their troubles

[00:15:48] yeah

[00:15:49] as far as we saw anyway

[00:15:51] yeah I think she's the closest

[00:15:52] thing to a pure

[00:15:54] rooting interest

[00:15:55] that we have

[00:15:57] at this point

[00:16:00] she has the most reason to live

[00:16:03] she's the youngest

[00:16:04] and really has something

[00:16:05] to accomplish

[00:16:06] by saving both her mom

[00:16:07] and her brother

[00:16:09] from their face

[00:16:10] saving them not just

[00:16:10] being with them

[00:16:11] like with Gihun

[00:16:12] it's his daughter

[00:16:13] it would be good

[00:16:14] for her to have a father

[00:16:15] but she'll be fine

[00:16:16] without her right

[00:16:18] and also

[00:16:21] you know she hasn't

[00:16:22] screwed anyone over

[00:16:23] in the games

[00:16:24] like she

[00:16:25] quote unquote

[00:16:26] she did it in a way

[00:16:26] by figuring out

[00:16:28] what the second game was

[00:16:29] but she really has

[00:16:31] not done

[00:16:31] anything underhanded

[00:16:32] to any other

[00:16:34] contestant

[00:16:36] she tried to scare

[00:16:37] Duxu

[00:16:38] and I think that was

[00:16:39] both reasonable

[00:16:41] and she only scared him

[00:16:42] she didn't actually

[00:16:44] you know

[00:16:44] she probably could have killed him

[00:16:47] in red light green light

[00:16:48] oh yeah that's right

[00:16:50] you know

[00:16:50] and she didn't

[00:16:51] she just scared him

[00:16:52] to like even when

[00:16:53] she behaved

[00:16:54] I don't even want to call it badly

[00:16:56] because he was such a

[00:16:58] bad guy

[00:16:59] and so terrible to her

[00:17:01] what did she do exactly

[00:17:02] I forgot

[00:17:04] she grabbed him

[00:17:05] from behind

[00:17:06] and she could have

[00:17:07] held him there

[00:17:08] yeah but she didn't

[00:17:11] yeah

[00:17:12] and

[00:17:14] she reluctantly accepted

[00:17:16] Geong sacrifice

[00:17:17] that saved her

[00:17:20] but

[00:17:20] she didn't instigate it

[00:17:23] so it is really brutal

[00:17:24] to watch her

[00:17:26] struggle wounded

[00:17:27] and you have a pretty good idea

[00:17:29] where this is going

[00:17:30] and

[00:17:31] I think all the characters

[00:17:32] always represent

[00:17:33] something in this show

[00:17:35] to me

[00:17:36] Ali was

[00:17:37] sort of nice guys

[00:17:38] finish last

[00:17:40] I mean he was just too

[00:17:41] nice to trusting

[00:17:42] and

[00:17:42] in Sabio

[00:17:43] we kind of get

[00:17:44] the good will not be rewarded

[00:17:47] she basically

[00:17:48] represents the purist

[00:17:51] good at this point

[00:17:52] all the

[00:17:53] when you brought up her

[00:17:54] relationship with

[00:17:55] Duxu

[00:17:56] that reminds me

[00:17:57] that

[00:17:57] she was

[00:17:58] working for him

[00:17:59] as a thief

[00:18:00] or something

[00:18:01] right

[00:18:02] yeah

[00:18:02] and I mean

[00:18:02] I think all of that

[00:18:04] she was

[00:18:05] Robin Hooding it

[00:18:06] to save her family

[00:18:08] I'm not saying

[00:18:08] that it's okay to steal things

[00:18:10] I don't think

[00:18:11] she's a completely pure

[00:18:13] character

[00:18:14] she has harsh edges

[00:18:15] I think she has flaws

[00:18:17] but I don't think

[00:18:17] she's done anything

[00:18:20] critically flawed

[00:18:21] yeah

[00:18:22] I mean

[00:18:22] but that does put her

[00:18:23] in similar

[00:18:25] situation for me

[00:18:26] as Gihun

[00:18:27] where

[00:18:27] they just got the

[00:18:28] shit end of the stick

[00:18:29] in life

[00:18:30] and

[00:18:32] they felt

[00:18:32] like desperate

[00:18:34] and ended up doing

[00:18:35] things that they wouldn't

[00:18:35] have otherwise done

[00:18:36] to handle it

[00:18:37] that maybe weren't so great

[00:18:38] you know

[00:18:40] yeah

[00:18:40] they didn't have much choice

[00:18:43] yeah

[00:18:43] I think in my head

[00:18:44] I was separating it out

[00:18:45] almost as

[00:18:46] like worse

[00:18:46] that Gihun was

[00:18:48] stealing from his mother

[00:18:49] yeah

[00:18:50] because that

[00:18:50] feels worse than a stranger

[00:18:52] but at the end of the day

[00:18:53] like you don't know

[00:18:53] that stranger's story

[00:18:55] that you stole

[00:18:55] from it

[00:18:56] could be as bad or worse

[00:18:57] so

[00:18:58] yeah

[00:18:59] and she was doing everything

[00:19:00] she was doing

[00:19:01] in service

[00:19:02] of her parents

[00:19:03] and he was just

[00:19:05] he ended up

[00:19:05] being coming

[00:19:06] at it

[00:19:06] she's definitely not

[00:19:08] unflawed

[00:19:09] but I

[00:19:09] I think her purpose

[00:19:11] in the game is the most

[00:19:12] pure

[00:19:14] and

[00:19:15] you know

[00:19:16] at one point

[00:19:17] she says

[00:19:18] I want to go home

[00:19:20] and that is when you remember

[00:19:22] she is just a young girl

[00:19:25] because she's so strong

[00:19:26] and hard-eged

[00:19:27] yeah

[00:19:29] that was

[00:19:29] yeah

[00:19:29] that was a vulnerable moment

[00:19:31] from a woman

[00:19:32] who doesn't usually have any of those

[00:19:34] right

[00:19:35] yeah

[00:19:35] so it was pretty striking

[00:19:37] okay David

[00:19:38] your turn

[00:19:39] well I'll go on to

[00:19:40] to

[00:19:42] her relationship with Gihun

[00:19:44] which

[00:19:45] is

[00:19:46] part of our character as well

[00:19:48] so in this episode

[00:19:49] Gihun proposes an alliance

[00:19:51] that they work together

[00:19:52] to defeat

[00:19:53] Song Wu and split the cash

[00:19:57] they finally

[00:19:58] hear each other's backs

[00:19:59] full back story

[00:20:00] essentially

[00:20:01] or understand it

[00:20:02] and

[00:20:04] that is the moment

[00:20:05] in which they can

[00:20:06] actually trust each other

[00:20:08] it's my

[00:20:10] opinion in the story

[00:20:11] and this adds an extra

[00:20:13] element of irony

[00:20:14] and sadness

[00:20:16] I don't think that organizers

[00:20:18] would ever allow us

[00:20:19] what they're trying to do

[00:20:21] they want one winner

[00:20:23] and this is a

[00:20:24] you know

[00:20:24] a competition

[00:20:25] that among other things

[00:20:26] is being bet upon

[00:20:28] so I don't think

[00:20:29] they're ever going

[00:20:29] to be allowed to win together

[00:20:32] it's kind of a fantasy

[00:20:33] but

[00:20:35] they ask each other to take care

[00:20:37] if they're one of them

[00:20:38] as a survivor

[00:20:38] to take care

[00:20:40] of the other's family

[00:20:41] so I think even they

[00:20:43] understand it

[00:20:44] even though

[00:20:44] they're talking about an alliance

[00:20:47] and as the show did

[00:20:49] so well in the Marvels game

[00:20:50] this entire scene

[00:20:51] is heartbreaking

[00:20:53] it's two people

[00:20:53] we've come to really care

[00:20:54] about

[00:20:55] in the course of the show

[00:20:56] it's an alliance

[00:20:57] we can get behind

[00:20:59] but I think part

[00:20:59] of you knows

[00:21:01] it's ill-fated

[00:21:02] and it's short lived

[00:21:03] and it's not going to work

[00:21:04] but it does make

[00:21:06] songs which be trail

[00:21:08] really shattering

[00:21:10] and infuriating

[00:21:11] she probably was dying

[00:21:13] anyway

[00:21:14] but he robbed her

[00:21:16] of her dignity

[00:21:17] in

[00:21:18] in death I would say

[00:21:19] of dying from her wound

[00:21:21] rather than being his

[00:21:23] victim

[00:21:25] and one thing I didn't

[00:21:26] really catch

[00:21:27] until this watch

[00:21:28] was that it was

[00:21:29] Gihun's

[00:21:30] yelling and pounding on the door

[00:21:33] that woke up

[00:21:34] sangwoo

[00:21:35] and I knew he killed her

[00:21:37] when Gihun was out of the way

[00:21:39] but it just kind of hit me

[00:21:41] was like

[00:21:42] oh he woke him up

[00:21:43] so he provided the opportunity

[00:21:47] tragic

[00:21:48] and that's kind of typical

[00:21:49] Gihun

[00:21:50] throughout

[00:21:51] you know

[00:21:53] throughout his life

[00:21:53] in this whole show

[00:21:54] so even his fantasy

[00:21:56] of getting out to help his mom

[00:21:58] is a fantasy

[00:21:59] because she's dying

[00:22:02] his idea

[00:22:04] idealistic idea

[00:22:05] that they're going to come

[00:22:06] with medical attention

[00:22:07] is a fantasy

[00:22:10] after all we've seen

[00:22:11] so

[00:22:12] um

[00:22:13] he's not the most realistic

[00:22:15] and it does hurt him

[00:22:16] and those around him at times

[00:22:18] and that's

[00:22:19] kind of what

[00:22:20] sangwoo says to him

[00:22:22] you

[00:22:22] you're in trouble

[00:22:23] and you don't realize it

[00:22:24] you know

[00:22:25] so

[00:22:26] he has a point there

[00:22:27] and then Gihun

[00:22:28] kind of makes a good point

[00:22:29] that hey

[00:22:29] you're in here too

[00:22:30] right

[00:22:32] but yeah

[00:22:33] I think it's consistent

[00:22:34] though

[00:22:34] with why he had a gambling problem

[00:22:37] like it seems like Gihun

[00:22:39] just

[00:22:40] in a very childlike way

[00:22:42] if he hopes it could be true

[00:22:44] then he truly believes

[00:22:45] there's a chance

[00:22:46] that it could be true

[00:22:48] you know

[00:22:49] like

[00:22:50] Sabia

[00:22:50] didn't seem to be under any sort of

[00:22:53] illusions

[00:22:55] that multiple people would get out

[00:22:56] I think whether she was hurt or not

[00:22:58] she saw

[00:22:59] where this was going

[00:23:00] the same as saying

[00:23:01] we did

[00:23:02] but Gihun

[00:23:03] wanted it to be true

[00:23:04] so he believed

[00:23:05] it could be true

[00:23:07] the same with the medical stuff

[00:23:08] and I think that's why

[00:23:09] he was so susceptible

[00:23:10] to gambling

[00:23:12] because even though

[00:23:13] it'd been shown to him

[00:23:14] time and time again

[00:23:15] that he's probably not going

[00:23:17] to get rich

[00:23:17] sustainably off gambling

[00:23:20] he can't let go of that

[00:23:21] hope and belief

[00:23:22] and so he

[00:23:23] gets pulled into these things

[00:23:25] every time

[00:23:26] and it's

[00:23:27] forgivable

[00:23:28] and endearing

[00:23:29] I think because it's so childlike

[00:23:31] it's not

[00:23:34] he really does believe it

[00:23:36] in his heart

[00:23:37] I think

[00:23:39] yeah

[00:23:40] yeah I think you're

[00:23:41] I think you're right on

[00:23:43] and

[00:23:44] he's not actually an

[00:23:46] incapable person

[00:23:48] he's intelligent

[00:23:49] he has leadership qualities

[00:23:50] in certain ways

[00:23:52] he's able to form

[00:23:54] bonds with people around him

[00:23:56] but he does have this

[00:23:57] fantastical element

[00:23:58] to his character

[00:24:01] this element of wishful thinking

[00:24:02] that he can't shake

[00:24:05] I also think

[00:24:06] he

[00:24:08] is very

[00:24:10] in the moments

[00:24:11] and doesn't think about

[00:24:15] his problems

[00:24:16] if they're not right in front of him

[00:24:19] so he'll

[00:24:20] especially

[00:24:21] you could see in the first episode

[00:24:23] he was just

[00:24:25] so full of joy at times

[00:24:27] even though his life was

[00:24:28] shit if he was gambling

[00:24:29] and he was winning

[00:24:30] that's all that mattered

[00:24:31] you know

[00:24:31] and it wasn't necessarily

[00:24:32] like I'm going to be able to solve my problems

[00:24:34] it was like

[00:24:34] I'm having elation right now

[00:24:36] and so

[00:24:37] you know

[00:24:38] he's just like in that moment

[00:24:40] and not

[00:24:41] thinking of the bigger picture

[00:24:43] but I think it's beautifully crafted

[00:24:44] in this show

[00:24:45] their relationship

[00:24:46] because there's not much to it

[00:24:48] up until now

[00:24:49] they've had some interaction

[00:24:52] some sort of moves towards trust

[00:24:56] in the course of the show

[00:24:57] but not even all that much interaction

[00:24:59] but then

[00:25:01] we find by this time

[00:25:02] their bond is actually quite strong

[00:25:03] and we care about it quite a bit

[00:25:06] and it's stamped out almost immediately

[00:25:09] when

[00:25:10] so when Gehoun

[00:25:12] when they were all sitting on their bunks

[00:25:14] across the room from each other

[00:25:16] and

[00:25:18] it was focused in on

[00:25:20] Savio

[00:25:20] and she was clearly

[00:25:22] very hurt

[00:25:23] and I started thinking

[00:25:25] because I totally forgot what happened in the episode

[00:25:28] you know

[00:25:29] Gehoun could go over there

[00:25:30] and ally with her

[00:25:31] and if I was him

[00:25:32] I don't know if I would though

[00:25:34] because

[00:25:36] they all have knives

[00:25:37] and

[00:25:38] I still

[00:25:40] wouldn't know for sure

[00:25:41] if I could trust her

[00:25:42] necessarily with my life

[00:25:44] you know

[00:25:44] I could trust her with a lot of things

[00:25:46] but I don't know about with my life

[00:25:49] as I was saying that

[00:25:49] Gehoun went over there

[00:25:51] and

[00:25:52] I don't know what that says about me

[00:25:54] but for him

[00:25:55] I think it is in part

[00:25:56] what we're talking about

[00:25:57] that he's just

[00:25:58] he's kind of

[00:25:59] got these roles

[00:26:00] kind of glasses a little bit

[00:26:01] but he turned out to be right

[00:26:02] like you're right David

[00:26:04] they formed

[00:26:05] they kind of cemented their trust

[00:26:07] for each other

[00:26:08] there

[00:26:08] and I think that might have been out of desperation

[00:26:10] for her though

[00:26:10] you know

[00:26:10] she knew she was dying

[00:26:12] and she wanted to

[00:26:13] him to make that promise

[00:26:14] that she would take care

[00:26:15] he would take care of her family

[00:26:18] so I don't know

[00:26:19] so I don't know

[00:26:20] yeah

[00:26:22] I don't think

[00:26:24] I don't

[00:26:25] I don't know that she really ever

[00:26:28] did she ever really agree to the like

[00:26:30] like I feel like she knew

[00:26:32] she was dying

[00:26:32] and she also knew

[00:26:33] an alliance didn't matter

[00:26:34] even if she wasn't

[00:26:36] like I feel like she knew

[00:26:38] what was happening

[00:26:39] and her

[00:26:41] only goal was to try to get him

[00:26:42] to say

[00:26:44] to promise that he'd take care of her family

[00:26:46] I don't think it's just that

[00:26:50] because

[00:26:51] she did help him in the previous game

[00:26:53] oh no I do

[00:26:54] I do think she cared about her

[00:26:56] I don't think she wanted

[00:26:57] she won't let him go

[00:26:58] try to kill same

[00:26:59] who

[00:27:00] because she's like

[00:27:01] you have a

[00:27:02] good heart

[00:27:03] so that suggests

[00:27:05] friendship

[00:27:05] there's some bond going on there

[00:27:07] and that's maybe

[00:27:08] the best

[00:27:08] and maybe that's the best thing

[00:27:10] she did for him

[00:27:13] yeah

[00:27:13] prevent him from committing an act

[00:27:15] for which there is no redemption

[00:27:18] right

[00:27:19] and even though

[00:27:20] if he was successful at least

[00:27:22] then it would have helped her

[00:27:23] because

[00:27:24] he would have won

[00:27:26] and then

[00:27:26] if she died he could help her family

[00:27:29] now she has to risk that he'll lose

[00:27:31] in next week's game

[00:27:32] that's true

[00:27:34] I didn't even think about that

[00:27:36] he's of it

[00:27:38] also at this point

[00:27:39] you know when it was pretty clear

[00:27:40] that she was going to die

[00:27:42] I was thinking

[00:27:43] if there was someone there

[00:27:44] to help her

[00:27:45] then maybe she could make it through

[00:27:46] but there isn't

[00:27:48] and on a symbolic level

[00:27:49] you could say

[00:27:50] it's about

[00:27:51] inadequate health care

[00:27:52] for many in society

[00:27:53] you know

[00:27:54] yeah

[00:27:55] she was probably

[00:27:56] savable

[00:27:56] in an intrinsic sense

[00:27:58] in another situation

[00:28:00] yeah

[00:28:01] yeah

[00:28:01] there was somebody there

[00:28:02] to help

[00:28:04] all right

[00:28:05] my turn

[00:28:05] I'm just to keep it interesting

[00:28:08] my first one is called

[00:28:10] indefensive sanghu

[00:28:12] with someone

[00:28:13] in her own case

[00:28:16] it's kind of a long one

[00:28:17] but the rest of my points are short

[00:28:19] so

[00:28:20] at the beginning of the episode

[00:28:21] Gehun is critical of saying

[00:28:23] we're saying

[00:28:24] you know the guy that he pushed

[00:28:25] last week would have moved

[00:28:27] to the next tile soon

[00:28:29] and I'm like

[00:28:30] I don't know about that

[00:28:32] like you had

[00:28:33] fifth

[00:28:34] I went back and looked

[00:28:34] less than 15 seconds left

[00:28:36] when saying we pushed this guy

[00:28:39] and

[00:28:40] Gehun

[00:28:41] who was last in line

[00:28:42] only made it across by the skin of his teeth

[00:28:45] after sanghu did what he did

[00:28:49] Gehun says you killed him

[00:28:50] but

[00:28:51] the guy had the same 50% chance

[00:28:53] he would have if he would have jumped himself

[00:28:59] I think sanghu here

[00:29:00] in this episode is not making a great argument

[00:29:02] for himself

[00:29:03] he's saying

[00:29:04] the reason I'm still here

[00:29:05] is I'm willing to do almost anything

[00:29:06] to win this

[00:29:07] and you should be happy

[00:29:08] there's someone who's not afraid

[00:29:10] to get his hands dirty

[00:29:11] which I really think they wanted

[00:29:13] to bring that aspect of his character out

[00:29:16] so we would hate him

[00:29:17] and it is there for sure

[00:29:19] but in this case

[00:29:20] I think what he should be saying

[00:29:22] is if I hadn't done that then

[00:29:23] I'd either had to risk my own life

[00:29:25] unfairly

[00:29:26] or we would all be dead

[00:29:27] including you

[00:29:28] and also

[00:29:29] I would say

[00:29:30] Gehun

[00:29:30] if you don't approve them

[00:29:31] why didn't you move past us

[00:29:32] and take that risk yourself

[00:29:33] but he

[00:29:35] I mean

[00:29:35] there wasn't much time to act

[00:29:36] but

[00:29:38] so after last week's episode

[00:29:39] our art

[00:29:40] when it was me

[00:29:41] David

[00:29:41] and Daphne talking about this

[00:29:42] I kept thinking about it

[00:29:43] and I wanted to see what people on

[00:29:45] uh

[00:29:45] what other people thought

[00:29:46] so I posted this question

[00:29:48] on in our Facebook group

[00:29:51] what would you do

[00:29:51] if you were playing this glass bridge game

[00:29:53] and you got all the way

[00:29:54] to the two final tiles

[00:29:56] and there was one guy in front of you

[00:29:58] because he had chosen the number

[00:30:00] one lower than yours

[00:30:01] and you had about 15 seconds left

[00:30:03] in the game

[00:30:04] after which

[00:30:04] you would all be killed

[00:30:05] if no one moves

[00:30:06] and you know that if this guy just jumps

[00:30:08] on one of those two

[00:30:10] tiles like he's supposed to

[00:30:11] then you are 100% safe

[00:30:12] you won't die

[00:30:14] because you'll know which one is the tempered glass

[00:30:16] except

[00:30:17] the guy in front of you won't jump

[00:30:18] and take his 15

[00:30:19] 50% chance

[00:30:21] he's not moving

[00:30:22] the clock is ticking down

[00:30:23] 14 seconds left to live

[00:30:24] 13

[00:30:25] and if you don't do something

[00:30:26] then you and everyone left

[00:30:28] on the glass bridge will be dead

[00:30:29] so what do you do

[00:30:31] and so we got a bunch of answers

[00:30:33] I gotta read through just

[00:30:35] to be fair to everyone

[00:30:36] Jonathan Booka-Lil said push

[00:30:38] with a little sunglasses emoji

[00:30:40] Laura Hoisek said push them

[00:30:42] definitely

[00:30:43] Monica McGuire said

[00:30:44] I'm pushing him for sure

[00:30:47] Jennifer McGinley said

[00:30:48] push them onto the tile

[00:30:49] no ifs or buts

[00:30:50] push even harder

[00:30:51] than I pushed out my six selfish

[00:30:53] ingrates

[00:30:58] Matt that's nobody

[00:30:59] Matt King said

[00:31:00] in that scenario

[00:31:00] with only seconds left

[00:31:02] the only option is to push him

[00:31:03] if he refuses to move

[00:31:04] otherwise you both die

[00:31:05] pointlessly

[00:31:06] Sam Lo says push him

[00:31:08] I try to aim for the best tile

[00:31:10] but shrug

[00:31:11] it's awful and a bad thing to do

[00:31:12] I'd still do it

[00:31:13] my survival instincts

[00:31:15] he doesn't get to kill us all

[00:31:17] Maria Lawson said

[00:31:18] we got three more here

[00:31:19] 100% if it's down to seconds left

[00:31:21] I'm pushing him towards

[00:31:22] whichever I think might be right

[00:31:23] self-preservation

[00:31:24] would be the primary goal at that point

[00:31:27] Ginger Martinez says

[00:31:28] honestly if it were life

[00:31:29] life or death

[00:31:30] my guess is that I pushed the guy

[00:31:31] I hate admitting it

[00:31:32] but with just seconds left

[00:31:34] and the adrenaline pumping

[00:31:35] I believe that's what I would do

[00:31:36] thank goodness it's just fiction

[00:31:38] and Derrick O'Neal says

[00:31:40] yep I would definitely push him

[00:31:41] it's 50-50 that you'd survive

[00:31:43] if he's not willing to make

[00:31:44] that gamble

[00:31:44] either I step over him

[00:31:46] and give myself the 50-50 chance

[00:31:47] or push him

[00:31:48] and hope he lands on the tile

[00:31:50] that doesn't break

[00:31:53] are you guys surprised

[00:31:54] that's how people answered

[00:31:56] I'm not

[00:31:56] because you phrased the question

[00:31:58] in an extremely leading way

[00:32:00] I do

[00:32:00] I'm gonna say that

[00:32:01] is it any of it untrue

[00:32:03] what I said

[00:32:05] I don't think it's maybe factually untrue

[00:32:07] but I think you definitely slanted that question

[00:32:10] in a direction

[00:32:11] that it's hard to answer it any other way

[00:32:13] you didn't really put into the question

[00:32:15] any other options

[00:32:17] okay what would you do

[00:32:19] yeah what would you do

[00:32:20] and that's serious

[00:32:21] so here's a question to the two of you

[00:32:24] do we believe

[00:32:25] or do we think he believed

[00:32:27] that if they went out of order

[00:32:28] they would be killed by the game masters

[00:32:32] like

[00:32:32] because they already had done that

[00:32:34] they already did it

[00:32:35] okay

[00:32:36] Duxu was making people go past him

[00:32:38] okay so there clearly is another option

[00:32:41] which is he could have gone forward

[00:32:44] would you take that option

[00:32:47] I mean hard to answer

[00:32:48] and they have a strapped

[00:32:50] you hope you think

[00:32:51] if you hope you might

[00:32:52] answer

[00:32:52] you hope you might

[00:32:53] be the kind of person

[00:32:54] that would

[00:32:56] really you would

[00:32:58] so if you knew that

[00:32:59] if this guy took his

[00:33:01] shot as he was supposed to

[00:33:02] because he drew a number

[00:33:03] less than yours

[00:33:04] that you would have 100% chance of living

[00:33:06] but he's frozen

[00:33:07] so you're gonna risk your life

[00:33:09] because he doesn't want to move

[00:33:12] I would probably quickly move

[00:33:14] past

[00:33:16] I think I would more likely

[00:33:17] be more likely to do that

[00:33:19] than to push someone else

[00:33:21] even though it may not make the most logical sense

[00:33:24] now

[00:33:25] maybe if I'd been in this squid game

[00:33:27] of death for five games

[00:33:28] already I might feel different

[00:33:30] yeah

[00:33:31] but let's say you did that

[00:33:32] and you died

[00:33:33] and then someone told

[00:33:36] your wife

[00:33:37] you know he let

[00:33:38] he went ahead of this other guy

[00:33:39] because he wouldn't move

[00:33:40] and now he's dead

[00:33:41] but he would have been alive

[00:33:42] who's gonna tell my wife that

[00:33:45] that's a good point

[00:33:46] no one's gonna tell

[00:33:47] I mean

[00:33:48] so

[00:33:49] I'm not even saying

[00:33:50] I would have or I wouldn't have

[00:33:51] but I don't

[00:33:52] I don't think all the

[00:33:54] the options were clearly laid out

[00:33:57] in the question

[00:33:58] and I would also say

[00:34:01] it's not just that he pushed him forward

[00:34:03] it's like

[00:34:04] he pushed him forward with malice

[00:34:08] like the way he did it

[00:34:09] and I'm gonna choose for you

[00:34:11] the force with which he did it

[00:34:14] the look on his face

[00:34:16] there was malice behind it

[00:34:18] so the issue is he pushed him hard

[00:34:20] he pushed him too hard

[00:34:23] I think the way he pushed him

[00:34:25] without warning

[00:34:25] he might have fallen off

[00:34:27] even if that was the right

[00:34:28] tile

[00:34:29] well

[00:34:30] maybe at this point

[00:34:32] he's sitting there

[00:34:34] stewing

[00:34:34] because he's put together

[00:34:36] that this guy

[00:34:37] is a glassmaker

[00:34:38] had this potential

[00:34:39] the whole time

[00:34:40] to help everyone get

[00:34:41] across the bridge

[00:34:43] and maybe internally

[00:34:44] he's starting to be like

[00:34:45] fuck this guy

[00:34:46] like

[00:34:47] he's gonna lead to all of us dying

[00:34:50] and

[00:34:51] he screwed everybody else

[00:34:52] by not

[00:34:53] speaking up

[00:34:54] and now he won't move

[00:34:56] and I'm just like

[00:34:57] obviously saying

[00:34:58] Wu is like super unhinged

[00:34:59] as most people would be

[00:35:01] after going through these games

[00:35:03] I don't know if I would do it

[00:35:05] I feel like knowing myself

[00:35:06] the more likely thing that would happen

[00:35:08] is I would panic

[00:35:09] I would jump to try to pass the person

[00:35:12] end up losing my balance

[00:35:14] and we would both go down

[00:35:15] because

[00:35:16] that just seems

[00:35:17] most likely

[00:35:18] but I don't

[00:35:19] so I don't know

[00:35:20] that I would do it saying Wu Chou's

[00:35:22] but I don't think I judge him

[00:35:24] quite as harshly

[00:35:26] as Gihun

[00:35:27] or as I put my notes

[00:35:28] or as David

[00:35:30] from listening to you

[00:35:31] over the last several episodes

[00:35:34] I do think

[00:35:35] saying Wu

[00:35:36] does really, really shity things

[00:35:38] I don't know if he's

[00:35:40] as big of a villain

[00:35:45] as you're saying

[00:35:46] especially with this scenario

[00:35:50] All right, I have two questions for you David

[00:35:52] One, what are the other options

[00:35:54] Well, I think there's two other options

[00:35:59] One is he could go by himself

[00:36:01] and the other is

[00:36:03] I don't think

[00:36:05] it was quite the last moment for him

[00:36:07] There still was a little bit of a gap

[00:36:09] So we put it a clock

[00:36:09] kept trying to

[00:36:11] kept trying to get him to go

[00:36:12] Yeah, I mean he had time to wait

[00:36:14] a little bit longer

[00:36:15] I thought

[00:36:16] Yeah, I could see that

[00:36:17] because once he did push him

[00:36:19] they all sort of stood there

[00:36:21] and shocked for

[00:36:22] a few seconds before they finally

[00:36:24] started to run across

[00:36:26] Yeah, and just to answer you

[00:36:28] Veronica

[00:36:29] I don't think he's an

[00:36:30] unmitigated villain

[00:36:32] It's a life and death situation

[00:36:33] somebody has to win

[00:36:35] And I'm the one who's been saying

[00:36:36] all along

[00:36:37] there's only going to be one winner

[00:36:39] But I think we have to acknowledge

[00:36:42] what he is

[00:36:44] which is

[00:36:46] a purely self-interested creature

[00:36:50] And if everything in this show

[00:36:54] is an archetype

[00:36:55] he's the archetype of

[00:36:57] the unmitigated capitalist

[00:37:00] And that's exactly why

[00:37:02] I'm defending him here

[00:37:03] because I think

[00:37:04] a lot of times

[00:37:06] people aren't judged

[00:37:07] by their actions

[00:37:08] but they're judged

[00:37:08] by their character

[00:37:10] And so if someone has a certain character

[00:37:12] and they do something

[00:37:13] they're judged more

[00:37:13] harshly

[00:37:14] than someone else

[00:37:14] who has

[00:37:15] a different character

[00:37:17] and does the exact same thing

[00:37:18] And I think justice is about action

[00:37:21] And so I think it happens

[00:37:22] sometimes where we like people

[00:37:24] So we judge them less harshly

[00:37:25] because

[00:37:26] when they're doing something bad

[00:37:27] and vice versa

[00:37:28] We don't like people

[00:37:29] So we judge them more harshly

[00:37:30] when they're doing

[00:37:31] just the same thing that you might do

[00:37:34] Maybe

[00:37:35] And my other question is

[00:37:37] let's take a hypothetical

[00:37:39] I won't say anyone specific

[00:37:40] But let's say there's someone

[00:37:42] who you really care about

[00:37:43] And they're in saying

[00:37:44] was position

[00:37:46] what would you want that person to do

[00:37:48] Oh push them

[00:37:51] Well, I don't know

[00:37:52] I don't know if I want that person

[00:37:53] to live with the guilt of it

[00:37:54] But if it's my person

[00:37:56] I want them to survive

[00:37:58] Yeah

[00:37:58] I think throughout this show

[00:38:00] and

[00:38:02] I don't feel as harsh

[00:38:04] towards him

[00:38:04] I guess as I sound

[00:38:06] Because he is a particular aspect

[00:38:09] of humanity

[00:38:11] And I think that's what he's in the story

[00:38:12] to bring out

[00:38:14] But I think you have to acknowledge

[00:38:15] what he is

[00:38:16] Because people face these life and death

[00:38:18] situations throughout this drama

[00:38:21] And they handle it in a lot of different ways

[00:38:24] Some handle it with self-sacrifice

[00:38:26] Some

[00:38:27] Maybe handle it

[00:38:28] The same way in action

[00:38:30] But do feel some empathy

[00:38:32] Or at least feel some shame

[00:38:33] about killing somebody

[00:38:35] And he feels absolutely none

[00:38:38] And I think he tries to conceal that fact

[00:38:41] throughout most of this show

[00:38:44] And by this time the pretenses over

[00:38:47] But he uses false empathy

[00:38:50] to gain trust

[00:38:51] For example from Ali

[00:38:54] Which he uses to kill him

[00:38:56] And I don't think that is something

[00:38:57] everybody would do

[00:38:58] Or that it's necessarily admirable

[00:39:02] You can say it's explainable

[00:39:04] It's excusable

[00:39:05] This is a life and death situation

[00:39:06] It's fair to protect yourself

[00:39:09] But you know

[00:39:10] There are a lot of shades

[00:39:12] of what

[00:39:13] Of the way you act

[00:39:14] And I don't think is the most admirable

[00:39:18] No, I agree with that

[00:39:19] And I have more to say

[00:39:21] I mean I think he does feel

[00:39:23] guilt I think it's complicated

[00:39:25] But most of what you said

[00:39:27] I agree with

[00:39:28] And

[00:39:29] But you didn't really answer my question

[00:39:30] Let's say it was me

[00:39:32] What if it was me

[00:39:33] What would you want me to do

[00:39:34] Push him or go forward myself

[00:39:36] This

[00:39:41] Our friendship is going to

[00:39:43] Is hangs in the back

[00:39:46] I'm just kidding

[00:39:47] You know what you don't even have

[00:39:48] Well there was that time

[00:39:50] Last weekend

[00:39:51] VR when I did push you onto the glass bridge

[00:39:56] So let me

[00:39:57] Let me finish my point about him

[00:39:58] So

[00:39:59] So

[00:40:01] This changes Gihun's view of

[00:40:03] Sangwu

[00:40:03] It's like the veil has been lifted

[00:40:05] from

[00:40:06] Sangwu

[00:40:07] Gihun's eyes

[00:40:07] And he's like

[00:40:08] Oh you're not this great guy

[00:40:09] I thought you were

[00:40:10] You're

[00:40:10] You're a bastard

[00:40:12] And he says

[00:40:13] To say

[00:40:14] What if it was me on that

[00:40:15] What if it had been me

[00:40:16] And I'm like

[00:40:17] Didn't you

[00:40:18] Like help pull 10 guys to their deaths

[00:40:20] in tug of war

[00:40:22] Didn't you pull with all your might

[00:40:24] Gihun

[00:40:25] I mean

[00:40:26] That was part of the game

[00:40:27] Maybe that's the difference

[00:40:28] If it's part of the game

[00:40:29] But this is a life or death situation here

[00:40:32] And I just think it's ridiculous

[00:40:34] That Gihun fills this

[00:40:36] Harsely

[00:40:36] And that I think it's

[00:40:38] It's almost bad riding in my opinion

[00:40:40] It's for storytelling purposes

[00:40:43] Because it was life or death

[00:40:44] They were all going to die

[00:40:45] If he didn't do that

[00:40:46] In my view

[00:40:47] So yeah

[00:40:48] I think it's a little bit contrived

[00:40:50] Now the other thing that he does

[00:40:52] Is kill

[00:40:52] Say

[00:40:53] Biak

[00:40:53] And

[00:40:57] The question is

[00:40:59] Well

[00:41:00] It's to drive home the point

[00:41:01] That

[00:41:02] As he said to Gihun

[00:41:03] He would do anything to win

[00:41:05] Saying well

[00:41:06] But the question is

[00:41:07] Should they be trying to win or not

[00:41:08] That's one question

[00:41:09] Every player chose to be there

[00:41:12] Knowing that their lives would be at stake

[00:41:15] After Red Light Green Light

[00:41:16] They all went home

[00:41:16] And then chose to come back

[00:41:18] Come back

[00:41:18] So for me at this point

[00:41:21] The real question is

[00:41:23] Do they know that the game

[00:41:24] Has to come down to one person

[00:41:26] Because if

[00:41:28] If it does

[00:41:29] Then it's kill or re-killed

[00:41:30] It just is

[00:41:31] There's only one person who's going to live

[00:41:33] And if it's kill or be killed

[00:41:34] Then I'd say it's reasonable

[00:41:36] To choose to try to win

[00:41:37] That's what you're

[00:41:37] That's what they're all doing here

[00:41:39] They're there

[00:41:40] So that they can be alive

[00:41:41] Knowing that

[00:41:42] Everyone else is going to be dead

[00:41:44] And I think it's totally disturbing

[00:41:47] I would never want to be in that situation

[00:41:49] But

[00:41:50] If I did sign up for that situation

[00:41:52] Just for arguments sake

[00:41:53] Then I'm going to be

[00:41:53] I'm going to try to be the one who lives

[00:41:56] You know

[00:41:57] But all that said

[00:41:58] They don't know for sure

[00:41:59] That only one person can make it through

[00:42:00] The admins specifically said

[00:42:02] Those who win all six games

[00:42:04] Will receive a handsome cash prize

[00:42:06] Those who win

[00:42:07] And so for me

[00:42:09] I think the idea that there could be

[00:42:10] More than one winner

[00:42:11] Would make a huge difference

[00:42:13] In how I played

[00:42:14] It's the difference between

[00:42:15] Whether or not it's kill or be killed

[00:42:17] And for me

[00:42:18] That's the reason why

[00:42:19] I think what say

[00:42:20] I mean

[00:42:20] Not say

[00:42:21] What Sang would did was

[00:42:22] Fucked

[00:42:23] Because he doesn't know

[00:42:24] That there can only be one

[00:42:25] But if there can only be one

[00:42:27] Then

[00:42:27] Then it brings up other questions

[00:42:29] Well

[00:42:29] Is it still immoral

[00:42:30] And should you only be

[00:42:32] Trying to just win the games

[00:42:33] But not

[00:42:34] I mean

[00:42:34] They've

[00:42:35] The higher

[00:42:36] Power has made it known

[00:42:38] That

[00:42:39] In the dorm at night

[00:42:40] If somebody dies

[00:42:40] That's still part of it

[00:42:41] But yeah

[00:42:42] I guess still

[00:42:43] It's still fucked up

[00:42:44] I mean

[00:42:44] He should just try to win the game

[00:42:46] At the end

[00:42:47] Even if he knows

[00:42:47] It can only come down

[00:42:49] To one person

[00:42:50] I still think it's pretty fucked up

[00:42:52] I think

[00:42:53] The conclusion you came to

[00:42:55] I agree with

[00:42:55] But there is a difference

[00:42:57] Between

[00:42:58] You know

[00:42:59] Attacking someone with a knife

[00:43:00] Between games

[00:43:01] And killing them

[00:43:02] As part of the roles of a game

[00:43:04] Yeah

[00:43:05] I think the only other thing is that

[00:43:08] I don't think they really did sign up

[00:43:10] For where the games went

[00:43:12] When they left

[00:43:14] They knew people could die

[00:43:15] But they didn't know

[00:43:16] They would have to be responsible

[00:43:18] For the other people's deaths

[00:43:20] You know

[00:43:21] Red light green light was just

[00:43:23] Get to

[00:43:24] Get to the end

[00:43:26] You saw these people dying

[00:43:28] But you

[00:43:29] Winning or losing had no impact on other people

[00:43:32] Winning or losing

[00:43:33] And it wasn't until we got to tug of war

[00:43:36] That suddenly your success

[00:43:37] Was dependent on the demise

[00:43:39] Of other players

[00:43:41] And so they didn't really know

[00:43:43] That that's where things were going to go

[00:43:45] When they didn't agree to come back

[00:43:46] They knew they were signing up

[00:43:48] For life or death games

[00:43:50] They didn't know they were signing up

[00:43:52] To be part of the violence

[00:43:55] Against other players

[00:43:57] They knew they were signing up to be part of a violent game

[00:44:00] But they didn't know they were going to have to be

[00:44:03] The instrument

[00:44:04] And also that

[00:44:06] tug of war was zero sum

[00:44:08] Ten win

[00:44:09] Ten live ten die

[00:44:11] The glass bridge was not zero sum

[00:44:13] Both it would have been possible for sangwu

[00:44:16] And the other guy to survive

[00:44:18] Both

[00:44:19] He didn't have to kill him to survive

[00:44:21] No

[00:44:21] You're right

[00:44:23] No, oh I'm saying

[00:44:25] If the time ran out they would all die

[00:44:27] That's my point

[00:44:28] Right

[00:44:30] So he would have had to sacrifice himself

[00:44:32] Or potentially to at least take that risk

[00:44:34] But I mean Veronica

[00:44:36] I see your point for sure

[00:44:37] But I also think that

[00:44:39] If you go to a game like that

[00:44:41] And you play a game like red light green light

[00:44:43] And you choose to come back

[00:44:44] You better be ready for other games

[00:44:46] Where you're playing against each other

[00:44:48] You know

[00:44:48] You shouldn't be too shocked by that

[00:44:51] That's what I think

[00:44:52] Yeah

[00:44:53] Okay

[00:44:54] Where are we

[00:44:55] Veronica

[00:44:55] I think she's right

[00:44:56] Um

[00:44:57] I think I just a few things

[00:45:00] To comment on

[00:45:02] Just in general about the

[00:45:04] The supper I know I said

[00:45:06] I felt like that was

[00:45:08] My most fucked up moment of the week

[00:45:09] Just that they were having this big

[00:45:12] opulent dinner

[00:45:14] And I thought it was

[00:45:16] So messed up

[00:45:17] The little

[00:45:18] The line he gave

[00:45:20] This feast has been prepared

[00:45:21] As a token of gratitude

[00:45:22] Of the sacrifice and effort you've given

[00:45:25] And to encourage you to perform

[00:45:27] Even more splendidly in the final game

[00:45:30] Which I just felt

[00:45:31] I don't know it

[00:45:32] I think in the context of

[00:45:34] What has gotten them there

[00:45:36] Literally the blood of all these other players

[00:45:39] It just felt

[00:45:40] Gross

[00:45:42] And then

[00:45:42] I would

[00:45:43] And I'm curious

[00:45:44] What you guys in this scenario

[00:45:46] I don't think I would have been able

[00:45:47] To relax into eating

[00:45:49] I would have been like

[00:45:50] Is this actually another secret game

[00:45:52] Like

[00:45:53] Is there some poison to component of the meal

[00:45:57] Like

[00:45:57] Would you

[00:45:59] I think one I would have struggled with just

[00:46:02] Like having an appetite

[00:46:03] After all of the trauma

[00:46:05] Granted they'd starved them

[00:46:07] So I think that helped

[00:46:09] And so maybe I would eat

[00:46:12] But I think

[00:46:13] I would definitely have had to wait

[00:46:15] To see someone else digging in

[00:46:17] And it's really a few minutes

[00:46:19] That steak was a little rare too

[00:46:23] Excuse me, can you take this back

[00:46:25] Yeah

[00:46:27] I like it medium well

[00:46:29] I think at that point

[00:46:32] I don't think I

[00:46:33] I don't know

[00:46:33] I that hadn't occurred to me until you just said it

[00:46:36] In the moment who knows

[00:46:37] But I feel like

[00:46:38] At this point

[00:46:39] They're sort of at

[00:46:40] At their overlords mercy

[00:46:42] As far as food goes

[00:46:44] But it is a different presentation

[00:46:45] So I don't know

[00:46:47] And then I thought something else that was

[00:46:50] Kind of interesting about the whole

[00:46:53] Dinner scene was

[00:46:55] Sangwoo was the first one to start eating

[00:46:58] And GyuHoon waited on him

[00:47:00] And then

[00:47:02] I really felt like they were eating competitively

[00:47:05] Yeah

[00:47:06] Like

[00:47:07] Like GyuHoon was like

[00:47:08] I'm not gonna let you eat more than me

[00:47:11] You know he saw a saying

[00:47:12] We would take a drink of wine

[00:47:13] And so then he's like

[00:47:15] Literally shoving food into his mouth

[00:47:16] As he grabs his

[00:47:18] A glass of wine

[00:47:20] And

[00:47:22] I mean I guess it was both

[00:47:23] He's just so angry at him

[00:47:25] And doesn't want him to be

[00:47:27] Enjoying this meal

[00:47:28] When he doesn't actually think

[00:47:29] Sangwoo deserves to have a meal

[00:47:32] After he thinks

[00:47:33] You know

[00:47:34] Obviously GyuHoon that

[00:47:37] Sangwoo's actions on the glass bridge

[00:47:38] Were absolutely terrible

[00:47:40] And I think it made him really

[00:47:42] Probably angry

[00:47:43] That Sangwoo was

[00:47:45] So casually able to just eat

[00:47:47] And he was like

[00:47:48] Well I'm not gonna let him eat

[00:47:50] And enjoy this

[00:47:51] And I who haven't

[00:47:53] You know he doesn't see himself

[00:47:54] As having done anything as bad as Sangwoo

[00:47:57] Doesn't eat

[00:47:58] And then also

[00:47:59] Like realizing he needs to be strong

[00:48:01] To beat Sangwoo

[00:48:02] In the final fight

[00:48:05] Byers thought it was

[00:48:07] A really sort of fun scene

[00:48:08] Watching them like

[00:48:10] Almost yeah

[00:48:12] Competitively eat their

[00:48:14] suffer

[00:48:14] And I don't think GyuHoon

[00:48:15] You don't think that they

[00:48:16] Thought that was like part of it

[00:48:19] Oh no I didn't think about that

[00:48:21] I don't either actually

[00:48:21] I don't either

[00:48:22] Yeah I think it's more psychological

[00:48:24] Yeah

[00:48:25] And

[00:48:28] It is a

[00:48:30] Brilliant and striking scene

[00:48:32] And because there's

[00:48:33] Like everything in this show

[00:48:34] There's multiple levels

[00:48:35] Of everything going on

[00:48:36] So everything you point out

[00:48:37] Veronica

[00:48:39] There's always

[00:48:42] This societal allegory in this show

[00:48:44] And I think you're totally right

[00:48:46] This like all of a sudden

[00:48:47] The poor people are given this feast

[00:48:49] Which is also

[00:48:50] Obscene

[00:48:51] In and of itself

[00:48:52] Like they go from starvation to glutney

[00:48:55] Hey

[00:48:56] You're the few lucky ones now

[00:48:57] All of a sudden

[00:48:58] I get to

[00:49:00] Indulge in this glutney

[00:49:01] After most of the people

[00:49:02] You were here with

[00:49:03] Were basically starved

[00:49:05] Um

[00:49:07] Yeah it's grotesque

[00:49:09] And they're wearing

[00:49:10] These beautiful tuxedos

[00:49:12] But their faces are all wounded

[00:49:14] Yeah

[00:49:14] Dirty

[00:49:15] And

[00:49:16] It's really messed up

[00:49:17] This show does juxtaposition

[00:49:20] So well

[00:49:20] You know we've talked about the

[00:49:21] juxtaposition between

[00:49:22] The childlike and the disturbing

[00:49:24] But here

[00:49:24] The settings all lush

[00:49:26] And celebratory

[00:49:27] But they're just like

[00:49:28] All

[00:49:29] Practically dead

[00:49:30] And wounded

[00:49:30] And fucking hate each other

[00:49:32] And silent

[00:49:34] And then say

[00:49:34] The ox

[00:49:35] Seems like she's dying

[00:49:37] She's so pale

[00:49:38] So it just doesn't

[00:49:39] Those two don't fit together

[00:49:40] And then on top of that

[00:49:41] They um

[00:49:43] Cut back and forth between this

[00:49:44] Quiet weird

[00:49:45] Weird ass dinner

[00:49:47] And then Junho just scrambling

[00:49:48] Through the forest being chased by

[00:49:50] Guards

[00:49:51] I felt like that really

[00:49:53] That juxtaposition

[00:49:54] Really amped up

[00:49:56] You know

[00:49:57] The quiet dinner seen even further

[00:49:59] Like there was some tension

[00:50:00] Like I said where they both were

[00:50:01] Like eating

[00:50:02] And

[00:50:03] And say

[00:50:03] Barks

[00:50:04] Essentially dying

[00:50:05] But

[00:50:06] That

[00:50:07] Cut scene

[00:50:08] I thought was really

[00:50:09] Well done

[00:50:10] Well done

[00:50:11] Yeah

[00:50:13] That's great

[00:50:14] I thought it was the only other thing

[00:50:16] I

[00:50:17] Had to say about the dinner scene

[00:50:19] Was just like

[00:50:20] Thought it was interesting

[00:50:21] That they focused on

[00:50:22] Just Sunki

[00:50:23] Who noticing that

[00:50:24] Sapeok

[00:50:26] Was having

[00:50:27] Issues

[00:50:28] Like he seemed to slow down

[00:50:29] Realized she wasn't eating

[00:50:31] And like obviously

[00:50:32] Saying who

[00:50:33] Who's been

[00:50:34] Observant of everyone

[00:50:36] Constantly sizing people up

[00:50:37] Like I'm sure he was noticing that

[00:50:39] I just thought it was interesting

[00:50:40] That they

[00:50:41] Didn't feel the need

[00:50:43] To show him

[00:50:44] Noticing it

[00:50:45] And I guess it didn't matter

[00:50:46] We didn't need to see it

[00:50:47] But

[00:50:48] It was just sort of interesting

[00:50:49] To me

[00:50:50] What they decided

[00:50:51] To show and not show around that

[00:50:53] I think I know why

[00:50:55] I think they did it

[00:50:56] My guess

[00:50:57] Just to make it

[00:50:58] Feel like it came

[00:50:59] Where out of the blue when he killed her

[00:51:00] So it'd be more of a shock

[00:51:02] Yeah

[00:51:03] That's true

[00:51:03] Because at that point

[00:51:05] You could almost be like

[00:51:06] Well he hasn't noticed

[00:51:07] And he's not paying attention

[00:51:08] He's just over there asleep

[00:51:10] Or we're just not even

[00:51:11] It's not in our head

[00:51:12] That he's going to do that

[00:51:12] You know

[00:51:13] They don't want it

[00:51:14] In our head

[00:51:16] So I'll just follow up

[00:51:17] A few more points on the same scene

[00:51:20] What I wrote down

[00:51:21] Was the most awkward dinner of all time

[00:51:25] And I kind of felt like watching it

[00:51:27] Like

[00:51:27] I had been on some uncomfortable first dates

[00:51:29] In my time

[00:51:30] But nothing like this

[00:51:32] Not quite this bad

[00:51:33] You know

[00:51:33] This fancy elegant meal

[00:51:35] In stark contrast

[00:51:36] They're

[00:51:37] Kind of gritty

[00:51:38] Struggle in the dirt

[00:51:41] For survival

[00:51:43] It struck me that these were

[00:51:45] Modern-day gladiators

[00:51:47] So now that they're

[00:51:48] Accomplished in this game

[00:51:49] They're being provided

[00:51:50] With some honor

[00:51:51] And respect

[00:51:52] At least outwardly

[00:51:54] Even though it doesn't

[00:51:55] Exempt them from their fate

[00:51:59] I agree with you

[00:52:01] Both

[00:52:02] I had written down

[00:52:03] That

[00:52:04] Her vulnerability

[00:52:07] And her behavior at the dinner

[00:52:08] Is a signal to Song Wu

[00:52:10] That she's vulnerable

[00:52:12] But

[00:52:13] I love that the

[00:52:14] Square

[00:52:16] Mask guy

[00:52:17] Gives a disclaimer

[00:52:19] He says

[00:52:21] Please enjoy the feast

[00:52:22] Without any concerns

[00:52:24] In other words

[00:52:25] We're not going to kill you during dinner

[00:52:29] It also to me

[00:52:29] Highlighted the contrast

[00:52:30] Between these three people

[00:52:33] For

[00:52:34] I would say likely

[00:52:36] The fanciest meal

[00:52:37] Maybe he's ever had

[00:52:39] We don't know that for sure

[00:52:40] But probably

[00:52:43] For

[00:52:44] Sabio

[00:52:44] It's probably the fanciest meal

[00:52:46] She's ever not eaten

[00:52:48] If that makes sense

[00:52:50] But definitely given her background

[00:52:51] And then

[00:52:52] Think about Song Wu

[00:52:53] We probably had hundreds of dinners

[00:52:54] Like this

[00:52:55] Yeah

[00:52:55] Coming from the industry

[00:52:57] He did

[00:52:58] So there's a contrast there

[00:53:01] And then

[00:53:02] And lastly

[00:53:03] The leaving behind of the knives

[00:53:05] I think is the

[00:53:08] First real confirmation

[00:53:10] For us

[00:53:10] That there is going to be one

[00:53:12] And only one winner

[00:53:13] I think that's the moment

[00:53:14] They made that explicit

[00:53:16] For the first time

[00:53:18] And it didn't occur to me

[00:53:19] Until this watch

[00:53:20] That

[00:53:22] They definitely want

[00:53:24] One of the three

[00:53:25] To be killed overnight

[00:53:28] That the knife

[00:53:28] Isn't just to go forward

[00:53:30] Into the next game

[00:53:32] And part of that is the meal itself

[00:53:34] It's like this really heavy meal

[00:53:36] And the drinking wine

[00:53:37] So even if she had not been wounded

[00:53:39] Not unlikely

[00:53:40] At least one of them

[00:53:40] Is going to fall asleep

[00:53:42] overnight

[00:53:42] And be vulnerable

[00:53:44] So I think that was part of the purpose

[00:53:45] Interesting

[00:53:46] Yeah

[00:53:47] What do you think they would have done

[00:53:49] If

[00:53:50] They killed each other before

[00:53:52] Oh

[00:53:52] If no one did

[00:53:53] Yeah, I felt like it was a heavy bet

[00:53:55] Because if that'd been like

[00:53:56] Duxu was one of the last three

[00:53:58] He would have had those other two

[00:54:00] The road, slit, ASAP

[00:54:04] And so

[00:54:05] It also seemed like a high risk of

[00:54:07] They're not being a final game

[00:54:09] And that being the end

[00:54:11] Well they may have stopped them

[00:54:13] And they've stopped fighting at other times

[00:54:15] I think they would have tried

[00:54:17] But what if

[00:54:18] It could have happened really fast

[00:54:19] I guess all those things

[00:54:20] It's kind of a poetic license

[00:54:22] I guess

[00:54:23] Yeah

[00:54:23] You know what I mean

[00:54:24] Because they intended to

[00:54:25] But you're right

[00:54:27] If there was just a brawl

[00:54:28] Or they all

[00:54:29] Three just ran at each other

[00:54:30] Or something

[00:54:31] Maybe they would have orchestrated

[00:54:33] A different way

[00:54:34] If it was different players

[00:54:36] Yeah

[00:54:38] It's true

[00:54:39] Working in on the fly

[00:54:41] Frontman's producing his show

[00:54:44] One other thing about this

[00:54:47] Dinner is

[00:54:49] Last week

[00:54:50] In the VIP episode

[00:54:51] There was a

[00:54:52] Start contrast between

[00:54:54] The spairness and minimalism of the dorm

[00:54:57] And the other player environments

[00:54:58] Versus the lush ornateness

[00:55:00] And decadence of the VIP lounge

[00:55:03] With plants and

[00:55:04] Fictures and people dressed nicely

[00:55:06] And stuff

[00:55:07] And food and everything

[00:55:09] And um

[00:55:10] So they got a little piece of that here

[00:55:12] They're being treated like

[00:55:14] VIPs in a way

[00:55:16] And uh it's weird

[00:55:17] And I went like why

[00:55:20] Maybe it was just to make sure

[00:55:21] Somebody went to sleep

[00:55:22] But I feel like

[00:55:24] It's also

[00:55:26] Um

[00:55:26] Well the guard says it's

[00:55:27] Token of gratitude for their effort

[00:55:29] To encourage you to play well in the final game

[00:55:31] Is it just to keep their spirits up

[00:55:32] After everything they've been through

[00:55:35] Also maybe motivation

[00:55:36] They're giving them a taste

[00:55:37] Of what it would be like to be rich

[00:55:39] Oh yeah

[00:55:40] Yeah

[00:55:44] I don't know

[00:55:44] I just felt like it was like

[00:55:46] More psychological torture

[00:55:47] Yeah

[00:55:48] A point

[00:55:49] But

[00:55:50] It's just interesting

[00:55:52] I mean

[00:55:52] Anything could be that

[00:55:56] Like for us

[00:55:57] It's

[00:55:58] It's interesting

[00:55:59] To see something different like that

[00:56:01] It's twisted

[00:56:02] And that's entertaining in a dark way

[00:56:05] You know

[00:56:05] For us

[00:56:06] Or for me anyway

[00:56:06] I don't want to speak for you guys

[00:56:08] But also

[00:56:08] That could be an end story reason too

[00:56:10] Because they know that these VIPs

[00:56:12] Are watching it on camera

[00:56:13] And to be like

[00:56:14] Oh my god

[00:56:15] Look

[00:56:15] They're all like

[00:56:16] Looted

[00:56:17] But they're in their tuxes

[00:56:18] That's messed up

[00:56:21] I think we do respect

[00:56:23] Our champion gladiators

[00:56:26] Like if you're a better

[00:56:27] Or a fan

[00:56:28] Just genuine honor

[00:56:30] You really do respect that

[00:56:32] Horse that runs the fastest

[00:56:34] Or the boxer

[00:56:35] That's the toughest

[00:56:36] Or what have you

[00:56:37] So there might be some genuine respect there

[00:56:40] And that

[00:56:45] We have to ask the question

[00:56:46] Eventually on this episode

[00:56:48] Of why

[00:56:50] Junho's brother

[00:56:52] Is the front man

[00:56:53] Why after winning

[00:56:54] The squid game

[00:56:55] And having presumably

[00:56:56] Tens of million

[00:56:57] Of dollars

[00:56:58] Did he come back here

[00:56:59] And spend his time doing this

[00:57:02] And he's often talked about fairness

[00:57:05] In these games

[00:57:06] And having an even

[00:57:07] Level playing field for everyone

[00:57:09] And

[00:57:11] Also something about wanting to give a chance

[00:57:14] To the less

[00:57:15] Privileged or something like that

[00:57:17] So I feel like

[00:57:18] He's got all this ideology

[00:57:20] And his head

[00:57:21] About why

[00:57:22] This is a good and noble pursuit

[00:57:23] Maybe he feels like

[00:57:25] I came in here with nothing

[00:57:26] I was desperate

[00:57:27] And I came out

[00:57:28] A winner

[00:57:28] And I want to give other people

[00:57:29] Like

[00:57:30] That were in my position

[00:57:31] That chance

[00:57:31] Or something like that

[00:57:32] He's got some ideology around it

[00:57:34] And maybe this dinner

[00:57:35] Sort of plays into that too

[00:57:37] You are the revered

[00:57:37] Who made it this far

[00:57:38] And if you make it one more level

[00:57:39] You can be like me

[00:57:40] And here's your reward

[00:57:41] Or something

[00:57:42] Something along those lines

[00:57:44] Maybe

[00:57:44] Yeah

[00:57:45] I did sort of wonder

[00:57:46] How much of that ideology

[00:57:48] Is truly

[00:57:49] That he believes

[00:57:50] And how much of it is him

[00:57:53] You know

[00:57:54] How many of the past winners

[00:57:56] Were sangwos

[00:57:57] Right

[00:57:59] Dead really cold things

[00:58:01] And

[00:58:01] I

[00:58:03] Do think that while sangwos

[00:58:05] Continued to make really

[00:58:07] Crapie decisions

[00:58:08] And I don't think he would leave

[00:58:10] The arena

[00:58:10] A changed man

[00:58:11] I also do think

[00:58:13] There is emotional toll

[00:58:15] To the things that he's doing

[00:58:17] I think I would argue

[00:58:19] He is carrying it

[00:58:20] Even if he's burying it

[00:58:22] And so I sort of wondered

[00:58:23] If this threat man

[00:58:26] Sort of

[00:58:27] You don't leave these games unscathed

[00:58:29] Do you have to have done something

[00:58:31] That led to someone else's demise

[00:58:33] By the end

[00:58:34] Even

[00:58:34] You know

[00:58:35] Geer

[00:58:35] More than once

[00:58:36] Probably

[00:58:36] Yeah

[00:58:37] It has to carry

[00:58:38] You know

[00:58:39] The things

[00:58:39] Even he's done

[00:58:40] And I feel like he can hold his head

[00:58:42] Fairly high

[00:58:43] But he tried to trick

[00:58:44] The old man

[00:58:46] If you have the sense of go

[00:58:48] And so I did wonder

[00:58:49] Maybe the front man

[00:58:51] Need to tell himself

[00:58:53] The story that this is a good thing

[00:58:55] Because he's trying to negotiate

[00:58:58] The guilt he's carrying

[00:59:00] From having been a part of his own

[00:59:02] iteration of the games

[00:59:04] But you feel like

[00:59:06] Oh man, this thing maybe

[00:59:07] He feels so bad

[00:59:07] I'm going to administer it

[00:59:09] Yeah, but if you

[00:59:10] I mean

[00:59:10] Yeah, I think it's one of those

[00:59:12] Like the lies that you tell yourself

[00:59:14] Right

[00:59:14] Like I feel like he can so deeply

[00:59:17] bury his

[00:59:20] sort of PTSD

[00:59:21] And trauma

[00:59:22] If he tells himself

[00:59:23] That it was a good thing

[00:59:25] Again

[00:59:25] And so he's disconnecting

[00:59:27] From the reality

[00:59:28] But I think

[00:59:29] Lots of humans

[00:59:30] Do that with a lot of things

[00:59:32] You know what

[00:59:32] You just reminded me

[00:59:33] That

[00:59:34] Gehun

[00:59:35] Totally tricked

[00:59:36] The old man

[00:59:37] And tried to get him killed

[00:59:38] And so that makes it

[00:59:39] Even more ridiculous

[00:59:40] To me that he has this holy earth

[00:59:42] And now

[00:59:42] Attitude about saying

[00:59:43] We're pushing that guy in the glass bridge

[00:59:45] Just want to throw that in there

[00:59:47] The other thing about

[00:59:48] The frontman

[00:59:49] Those we saw where he was living

[00:59:53] It was a pretty

[00:59:54] modest

[00:59:57] Play

[00:59:57] We saw Juneho

[00:59:59] Go to where his brother had been staying

[01:00:01] He found the box with the card

[01:00:03] He found out he hadn't been there

[01:00:05] And hadn't paid his rent in months

[01:00:08] But to me

[01:00:08] I just wondered

[01:00:09] Is this one of the

[01:00:10] Lotto scenarios

[01:00:12] Where

[01:00:12] He blew through the money

[01:00:15] And think about most of the people

[01:00:17] That one

[01:00:18] Are people that have

[01:00:20] Significant

[01:00:21] Difficult relationships

[01:00:23] With money and finances

[01:00:25] How many of the past winners

[01:00:28] Have ended up

[01:00:30] Very quickly back into a bad situation

[01:00:34] And so I wondered if that's another reason

[01:00:36] That the frontman came back

[01:00:37] Because he didn't really have another option

[01:00:40] Well that'd be so sad to lose that much money

[01:00:44] I know lottery winners sometimes do

[01:00:46] Right

[01:00:47] I think like

[01:00:48] We're often the not

[01:00:49] That's what they do

[01:00:51] I meant to look it up

[01:00:52] Before we talked today

[01:00:53] Because I had thought of that

[01:00:55] And I didn't actually look up the numbers

[01:00:57] But I think it's pretty

[01:00:58] Pretty regular

[01:01:00] That

[01:01:02] What that happens

[01:01:04] I'm not sure where we are

[01:01:05] But

[01:01:06] Maybe we should talk about

[01:01:08] Jun Ho and the frontman

[01:01:10] I think there's a lot of unanswered questions

[01:01:12] In this storyline

[01:01:13] Which also makes it interesting

[01:01:15] Because in most of the other storylines

[01:01:17] The questions get answered

[01:01:19] As we go

[01:01:19] And this one

[01:01:22] At least as of this episode is unfinished

[01:01:26] Agreeing with you

[01:01:28] Both the central question of Inho

[01:01:30] Is why did he become the frontman

[01:01:32] And I don't think we're given an answer

[01:01:35] So yeah

[01:01:36] Maybe he blew through all his money

[01:01:38] Maybe he became an investor in it

[01:01:41] Maybe he's a part owner of this thing

[01:01:43] Maybe he just liked it

[01:01:45] He liked it

[01:01:45] Maybe

[01:01:47] That's kind of what I suspected

[01:01:49] Like if I had to choose an explanation

[01:01:52] It would be that this somehow gave his life meaning

[01:01:56] Like he went through this super intense experience

[01:01:59] And the

[01:02:02] Structured

[01:02:04] Cutthroat competitiveness of this environment

[01:02:07] Maybe gave him some direction

[01:02:08] That he was always lacking

[01:02:10] And he was attracted to it

[01:02:11] That's what seems most likely to me

[01:02:14] Yeah because there's a reason

[01:02:15] I think why they kept giving him those lines

[01:02:18] About fairness and stuff

[01:02:19] I think he's

[01:02:22] He's got a personal stake in all of this

[01:02:24] Yeah

[01:02:25] And he doesn't seem like

[01:02:26] Now we don't know him much

[01:02:28] But what we've seen of him

[01:02:30] He's very methodical

[01:02:32] He's very disciplined

[01:02:33] He doesn't seem like

[01:02:34] The kind of guy who would just blow through 35 million dollars

[01:02:39] Or whatever amount it was the year that he won

[01:02:42] Anything's possible

[01:02:43] But he doesn't

[01:02:44] I mean something got him there in the first place

[01:02:46] To be in the Squid Game

[01:02:48] Yeah

[01:02:48] But again

[01:02:49] I kind of

[01:02:50] Bit of a choice

[01:02:50] I kind of figured

[01:02:52] Maybe he wasn't a no-choice guy

[01:02:54] Maybe he was just a guy

[01:02:56] Where

[01:02:57] He didn't really have anything

[01:02:58] He cared that much about

[01:02:59] And he's competitive

[01:03:00] And

[01:03:02] Yeah

[01:03:02] Sure

[01:03:03] I hope we find out in season two

[01:03:05] Yeah

[01:03:06] I mean that would be one area

[01:03:07] They could go in season two

[01:03:08] And then the other huge unanswered question

[01:03:10] Is what is really the nature

[01:03:12] Of the relationship between him and his brother

[01:03:15] So we find out in this episode

[01:03:17] That he knew at the end of the last episode

[01:03:20] That his brother was the one chasing him

[01:03:22] Or pursuing the games

[01:03:25] Right

[01:03:25] He obviously does have some feeling for him

[01:03:29] He tries to save him

[01:03:30] Sorta to the extent he can

[01:03:34] Within the constraints of his situation

[01:03:36] And then even in the end

[01:03:37] He tells the guys not to kill him

[01:03:39] Yeah

[01:03:39] And he doesn't directly come

[01:03:41] When he could

[01:03:42] Right

[01:03:42] And I think maybe

[01:03:43] Because he shoot

[01:03:44] Right

[01:03:44] He offices hand to him

[01:03:46] And Junho doesn't accept

[01:03:48] And then he

[01:03:49] Frontman slash

[01:03:50] Inho

[01:03:51] Shoot Junho

[01:03:52] In the shoulder

[01:03:54] And he falls to

[01:03:55] He falls what we hear

[01:03:56] The splash

[01:03:57] And I think that may have been

[01:03:59] Him

[01:04:00] Wrestling with his own moral

[01:04:01] Conundrum

[01:04:02] What do I do here

[01:04:03] His own little glass bridge

[01:04:04] Like

[01:04:04] How can I

[01:04:05] Keep us both alive

[01:04:07] If I

[01:04:08] Just

[01:04:09] Tell him to run

[01:04:10] And then I'm going to die

[01:04:11] So the soldiers will kill me

[01:04:13] Something like

[01:04:13] This is all just speculation

[01:04:15] But maybe he thought

[01:04:16] This was the best way

[01:04:16] To actually keep Junho alive

[01:04:18] To wound him

[01:04:19] In a way that wouldn't kill him

[01:04:21] So that he would fall into the water

[01:04:23] So do you think he's still alive

[01:04:25] I do

[01:04:26] Yeah

[01:04:28] I mean we never saw him die

[01:04:29] I think I missed

[01:04:30] That it was a shoulder shot

[01:04:32] I think it was

[01:04:33] It definitely was a shoulder shot

[01:04:34] I love that idea

[01:04:36] It was a shoulder shot

[01:04:37] And we didn't see him die

[01:04:38] So at least they're leaving the possibility

[01:04:40] Yeah

[01:04:41] And real quick

[01:04:41] And we heard the splash

[01:04:43] So I think that's a pretty clear sign

[01:04:45] But wait, I wanted to say one thing

[01:04:47] When you said

[01:04:47] We don't know the nature of their relationship

[01:04:49] Between the two brothers

[01:04:50] I thought it was kind of funny

[01:04:51] That

[01:04:52] The moment when Junho

[01:04:54] Kind of realizes

[01:04:55] That this is brother

[01:04:56] As when his brother says

[01:04:57] Do as I say or you die

[01:04:58] It's like

[01:04:59] I've heard that before

[01:05:02] Wait a minute

[01:05:04] Um

[01:05:05] Yeah

[01:05:06] Drop the gun on the phone

[01:05:07] And I might let you live

[01:05:08] So I think

[01:05:09] And I didn't even really realize this

[01:05:11] Before he was saying come with me

[01:05:13] But in the summary

[01:05:14] It said he tries to recruit him

[01:05:16] So what he really was doing

[01:05:18] Was asking him essentially

[01:05:19] To join the administration

[01:05:21] Of the squid game

[01:05:22] Um

[01:05:24] I think that's a little ambiguous

[01:05:25] But that's what the summary was saying

[01:05:28] Yeah, I don't know about that

[01:05:29] Become one of us

[01:05:31] Um

[01:05:32] And then the

[01:05:33] All we know is he was saying come here

[01:05:34] That's all we were

[01:05:35] For sure

[01:05:35] Yeah

[01:05:36] And then the last thing I will say is

[01:05:38] Because there's symbolism

[01:05:39] And everything in this show

[01:05:40] Um

[01:05:42] I

[01:05:43] I think the um

[01:05:44] Social commentary here is two things

[01:05:46] Um

[01:05:47] One is as the frontman says

[01:05:49] Yeah, the Korean police aren't that enthusiastic

[01:05:52] So

[01:05:53] I think one is

[01:05:54] All this police running around

[01:05:56] Has been for nothing

[01:05:57] The police don't really care

[01:05:58] I don't know if that's true or not

[01:06:00] But that's what he's saying

[01:06:03] And I think we're also seeing

[01:06:05] That even family ties

[01:06:06] Can't super seed

[01:06:09] Our designated roles

[01:06:10] In the hierarchy

[01:06:11] Like

[01:06:12] They're playing these two roles

[01:06:14] Frontman and cop

[01:06:15] And even the strongest

[01:06:17] possible relationship

[01:06:18] Brotherhood

[01:06:19] Cannot overcome their roles

[01:06:23] I mean but as I'm saying

[01:06:25] Maybe

[01:06:26] It was

[01:06:27] The bonds

[01:06:28] That

[01:06:30] Maybe he

[01:06:31] Did want to save his brother

[01:06:32] But that was the thing

[01:06:34] He thought he could do

[01:06:35] That would give him the most chance of living

[01:06:38] I don't know

[01:06:38] Maybe that's a stretch

[01:06:39] But

[01:06:40] Yeah

[01:06:40] I think he wanted to

[01:06:41] But he's constrained

[01:06:43] He's constrained by his role

[01:06:46] Get a shot him in the heart or the face

[01:06:48] But he shot him

[01:06:48] I think he shot him in the shoulder

[01:06:49] But yeah

[01:06:50] Have to go back and look

[01:06:52] Anything else about that

[01:06:53] Veronica

[01:06:54] If you points about it

[01:06:55] But

[01:06:56] No

[01:06:56] I mean

[01:06:56] I think it's just

[01:06:58] Why

[01:06:58] I still keep reflecting on

[01:07:00] David

[01:07:00] I think

[01:07:02] You're probably absolutely right

[01:07:04] About his reason

[01:07:05] For becoming the frontman

[01:07:08] Sort of being this more positive

[01:07:10] Like changed in his life

[01:07:11] But

[01:07:12] I'm still laughing

[01:07:13] Because all I could think of

[01:07:15] Tragic reasons

[01:07:16] That would have led him

[01:07:17] To that path

[01:07:18] Like my mind couldn't even go

[01:07:20] To someone who

[01:07:21] Left Squid Games

[01:07:22] Feeling a new sense of purpose

[01:07:24] In life based on Squid Games

[01:07:26] But

[01:07:26] I actually like that

[01:07:27] I think it fits a lot

[01:07:28] More closely with the things

[01:07:30] He has said they're out

[01:07:33] So just try to wrap my head around it

[01:07:34] And also

[01:07:35] What does that say about me

[01:07:36] That I could only imagine

[01:07:37] It being like

[01:07:38] Tragedy or

[01:07:40] Stuffing down PTSD

[01:07:42] Or something

[01:07:43] It could be all of that

[01:07:45] Yeah

[01:07:45] I mean

[01:07:46] Yeah

[01:07:46] Totally

[01:07:48] I think the other thing

[01:07:48] That's just so interesting

[01:07:50] When we're thinking through

[01:07:51] Like the social constructs

[01:07:52] And what it means

[01:07:53] Like one of the players

[01:07:55] Becoming the person

[01:07:56] Running the show

[01:07:58] Um

[01:07:59] Is pretty wild

[01:08:00] And um

[01:08:02] You know

[01:08:03] He

[01:08:04] Doesn't have

[01:08:05] More empathy for the people

[01:08:07] In the games

[01:08:08] Even though he went through it

[01:08:10] He has

[01:08:11] Probably

[01:08:13] The attitude of

[01:08:15] Well I worked hard enough

[01:08:16] And got through these games

[01:08:17] And got to where I am

[01:08:19] You just have to do what I did too

[01:08:22] Possibly

[01:08:23] He would attribute it

[01:08:24] Probably

[01:08:25] Completely to his merits

[01:08:26] As a person

[01:08:27] And discount the amount of luck

[01:08:29] That's required

[01:08:30] In a lot of these games

[01:08:32] And so I just think

[01:08:34] I don't know

[01:08:34] I guess reflecting on sort of social

[01:08:37] And capitalistic themes

[01:08:38] And thinking about

[01:08:40] The self-made man

[01:08:41] And how then they assume

[01:08:42] That everyone

[01:08:43] And all is who

[01:08:44] Isn't

[01:08:45] Rich like me

[01:08:47] It's just because

[01:08:47] They're lazy

[01:08:48] Or they didn't work hard enough

[01:08:50] And sort of discounting

[01:08:51] The

[01:08:52] The luck

[01:08:52] I don't know

[01:08:53] I guess

[01:08:53] I just think it's really interesting

[01:08:55] To think about

[01:08:55] A player

[01:08:57] Going from that position

[01:08:58] To then running the show

[01:09:00] And seeing

[01:09:01] Other people who they should have so much empathy for

[01:09:03] Because

[01:09:04] They were

[01:09:05] Very down in their luck

[01:09:06] To be selected

[01:09:07] To be in these games

[01:09:09] For whatever reason

[01:09:10] Whether it's financial

[01:09:11] Or they just have no one

[01:09:12] They care about

[01:09:12] Or cares about them

[01:09:14] There's some reason

[01:09:15] That you agree

[01:09:16] To participate

[01:09:17] In squid games

[01:09:19] And to

[01:09:20] So

[01:09:20] To then be so cold

[01:09:22] To other people

[01:09:22] That are in that same desperate scenario

[01:09:25] I don't know

[01:09:26] Probably says a lot about who

[01:09:27] Inho is

[01:09:28] I think it's about

[01:09:30] This whole fairness thing

[01:09:32] That

[01:09:33] You know

[01:09:33] You guys are all

[01:09:35] You have the same chances

[01:09:36] And

[01:09:38] You know

[01:09:39] You will either

[01:09:40] Come out victorious or die

[01:09:42] And that's the way it is

[01:09:43] Kind of thinking

[01:09:44] Something like that

[01:09:47] One thing I had to say about

[01:09:49] All this is

[01:09:51] This chase

[01:09:51] In particular

[01:09:52] A lot of

[01:09:53] With Junho being chased by the

[01:09:55] Frontman and his guards

[01:09:57] That a lot of the tension

[01:09:58] With that story is cell phone related

[01:10:01] And

[01:10:01] You know

[01:10:02] When cell phones first

[01:10:03] Became popular

[01:10:05] They ruined a lot of situations

[01:10:07] In movies

[01:10:08] That would normally be tense

[01:10:09] Because suddenly people could just

[01:10:12] Call for help

[01:10:13] Or to get information

[01:10:14] Or whatever

[01:10:14] So the writers had to

[01:10:17] Invent new ways of creating tension

[01:10:19] Or reasons for phones

[01:10:21] To not work

[01:10:22] Or not be there

[01:10:24] And so

[01:10:26] In this case

[01:10:27] They did

[01:10:27] It's poor reception

[01:10:29] And his phone has barely any charge

[01:10:31] Don't don't don't

[01:10:32] Like when I saw that

[01:10:33] It made me feel stressed

[01:10:34] This little sliver of battery

[01:10:37] It was a little unbelievable

[01:10:38] That he could have had it

[01:10:40] For that long

[01:10:41] Without a charge

[01:10:42] He should have bought his charger

[01:10:44] But anyway

[01:10:44] So he's apparently taking video evidence

[01:10:46] Right

[01:10:47] The whole time he was there

[01:10:48] We saw him

[01:10:49] Tape that one guy

[01:10:51] In the sex room

[01:10:52] And he's probably

[01:10:53] Seemed like he had a bunch of videos

[01:10:55] But

[01:10:56] We don't even know

[01:10:58] If they got uploaded

[01:10:59] I at least

[01:11:00] Yeah, I can't remember in the last episode

[01:11:01] We're not spoiling right now

[01:11:02] But I don't remember

[01:11:03] But um

[01:11:04] That's another question

[01:11:05] I have at least

[01:11:07] Did any of that information

[01:11:08] Actually

[01:11:09] Get out there

[01:11:10] We can talk about this

[01:11:11] And the spoiler

[01:11:12] In the spoiler section

[01:11:13] Okay

[01:11:14] Alright

[01:11:15] Anything else before we go to notes

[01:11:18] I just wanted to follow up

[01:11:19] On the one other

[01:11:20] Relationship we haven't talked much about

[01:11:22] Which is Song Wu and Guihun

[01:11:23] We've talked a lot about Song Wu

[01:11:25] Specifically

[01:11:27] But I think this is the episode

[01:11:29] Where their relationship

[01:11:30] Which has been a subtext of

[01:11:31] The whole show

[01:11:32] Kind of

[01:11:33] Comes to its final point

[01:11:36] It starts with them having

[01:11:37] The argument

[01:11:38] And it ends with

[01:11:40] Trying to have a fight

[01:11:41] To the death

[01:11:41] Which is stopped by the guards

[01:11:46] In the argument

[01:11:47] When Guihun confronts

[01:11:48] Song Wu

[01:11:49] Song Wu says

[01:11:50] I don't know about you

[01:11:51] But I'm not alive

[01:11:52] Because of him

[01:11:53] He means the glass bridge guy

[01:11:54] I'm alive

[01:11:54] Because I worked my ass off

[01:11:56] To stay alive

[01:11:59] So I think there is a theme

[01:12:01] That is run throughout the show too

[01:12:03] Which is denial

[01:12:04] To your point Veronica

[01:12:05] He's denying

[01:12:07] Luck

[01:12:07] Or the underhanded thing

[01:12:09] He did to Ali

[01:12:10] Or

[01:12:11] You know

[01:12:12] Or the people that helped him

[01:12:13] Because they cared

[01:12:14] And thought he cared about that

[01:12:15] Right

[01:12:16] So all that gets denied

[01:12:18] And it's just my own skill

[01:12:20] But Guihun isn't denial too

[01:12:23] To Jason's point

[01:12:24] Which is

[01:12:25] He did something

[01:12:27] You know

[01:12:28] Not cool

[01:12:29] With the old man

[01:12:30] To save himself

[01:12:31] At the expense of that life

[01:12:32] So for all the good he's done

[01:12:35] He's denying that part

[01:12:37] And we've talked about all the

[01:12:38] Other ways in which he has wishful thinking

[01:12:40] So I think denial is a theme

[01:12:42] Between

[01:12:44] Between them and their

[01:12:45] Relationship

[01:12:46] Song Wu says, get a grip

[01:12:48] We have to kill everyone else anyway

[01:12:49] To leave with all that money

[01:12:51] He doesn't mean we

[01:12:52] He means I

[01:12:55] So we've learned that about them

[01:12:57] And

[01:12:58] And then this is I think

[01:13:00] Is the crux of it

[01:13:02] In the

[01:13:03] Relationship

[01:13:04] We get to the

[01:13:05] Finally the real reason

[01:13:07] Song Wu

[01:13:07] Results Guihun

[01:13:09] Who's supposed to be his friend

[01:13:11] He is the winner in life

[01:13:12] And Guihun is the loser

[01:13:15] And he looks down on him as a

[01:13:16] Peabrain

[01:13:17] And a loser

[01:13:18] And all this stuff

[01:13:20] And then

[01:13:20] But as Guihun points out

[01:13:22] They're in exactly the same place in life

[01:13:26] And that is the unforgivable sin of Guihun

[01:13:29] I think in Song Wu's eyes

[01:13:32] Yeah

[01:13:33] And

[01:13:34] You know

[01:13:34] Song Wu as you say

[01:13:35] He's in denial

[01:13:37] But

[01:13:37] He does have some awareness of this already

[01:13:40] Because he tried to kill himself

[01:13:42] We saw that

[01:13:43] And

[01:13:45] But it still rings true for me

[01:13:47] I think

[01:13:47] Song Wu

[01:13:48] Seems like the kind of guy

[01:13:49] And I identify with this sometimes

[01:13:51] Who I think a lot of people do

[01:13:52] Who simultaneously

[01:13:54] Think that they are mentally healthier

[01:13:56] And more fucked up

[01:13:57] Than everyone else

[01:13:58] At the same time

[01:14:00] You know what I mean

[01:14:01] Like he doesn't seem like

[01:14:03] He's just going through

[01:14:04] Like a super narcissistic person

[01:14:06] Who's like

[01:14:07] Hey, I'm the best

[01:14:08] I'm the greatest

[01:14:09] He's just sort of tortured about it

[01:14:11] But still has this attitude of superiority somehow

[01:14:14] And yet that tortured quality at the same time

[01:14:16] Might be like

[01:14:17] Yeah

[01:14:18] And I think

[01:14:20] The best way I could sum up these two people

[01:14:23] I don't think Song Wu is all bad

[01:14:26] Or the most evil

[01:14:28] Guy I've ever seen

[01:14:29] Or the Guihun is all good

[01:14:30] But the way I would put it is

[01:14:32] From where we were at the beginning

[01:14:35] Guihun is more than he first appeared

[01:14:39] A little bit more empathetic perceptive capable

[01:14:42] And Song Wu is less

[01:14:44] Little

[01:14:45] Little colder and more selfish

[01:14:47] Yeah

[01:14:48] And he seems more

[01:14:51] Like he doesn't really have any genuine connection

[01:14:54] With people

[01:14:56] And Sang Wu does

[01:14:58] He has a warm heart

[01:14:59] And I mean no

[01:15:01] I'm sorry

[01:15:02] Guihun does

[01:15:02] Guihun has a warm heart

[01:15:04] Sang Wu has a cold heart

[01:15:05] I feel like

[01:15:06] I agree

[01:15:09] I think

[01:15:10] You know, I've wrestled with how I feel about it

[01:15:12] Sang Wu throughout this rewatch a lot

[01:15:15] And I think because we've been talking about it so much

[01:15:17] And I was trying to think

[01:15:22] Like Sang Wu comparing him to someone who's like

[01:15:26] You know

[01:15:27] Outwardly so terrible like Doug Su

[01:15:29] Right

[01:15:31] At the end of the day

[01:15:32] Like if I had to line people up on a scale

[01:15:35] Of like morality

[01:15:36] Like I might put Sang Wu

[01:15:39] Not as far bad

[01:15:41] Or whatever

[01:15:42] As Doug Su

[01:15:44] But if I really start thinking about

[01:15:46] Who I would want to interact with

[01:15:47] In a real world situation

[01:15:50] People like Sang Wu

[01:15:52] In my experience in the past

[01:15:54] Are actually the absolute worst

[01:15:56] At least with Doug Su

[01:15:57] Like

[01:15:58] I'm gonna hate him

[01:16:00] But I'm gonna know what I'm getting

[01:16:03] But with Sang Wu

[01:16:04] You know

[01:16:05] Those people I think can throw you the most off

[01:16:08] Kilt her because

[01:16:09] You never know what to expect from them

[01:16:12] And they're not actually

[01:16:14] Rarely ever

[01:16:15] Are you seeing their true face

[01:16:19] And so

[01:16:20] I think really thinking about it

[01:16:22] That way

[01:16:23] And thinking about it

[01:16:24] From the real world situation

[01:16:25] Like

[01:16:27] You know

[01:16:27] Maybe

[01:16:28] Maybe I'm too soft on Sang Wu

[01:16:30] Like maybe he has a lot more in a furious

[01:16:32] Because of that

[01:16:35] Hit in personality

[01:16:37] Than I'm like

[01:16:39] I guess admitting

[01:16:42] I don't know

[01:16:44] I think just thinking about that

[01:16:46] In the real world situation

[01:16:47] Real world situations

[01:16:48] Where it's not life or death

[01:16:49] And having to interact with those people

[01:16:51] Like in a job

[01:16:53] I think actually

[01:16:53] Like Sang Wu

[01:16:54] I probably would

[01:16:56] Detest more

[01:16:57] Even than a Doug Su

[01:16:59] I don't know

[01:17:01] Early on when

[01:17:03] Sang Wu was being generous with

[01:17:04] Alley

[01:17:05] What did he pay for his cab fare

[01:17:07] Do you think that was just

[01:17:09] For Sang Wu to feel better about himself

[01:17:12] I

[01:17:13] I think so

[01:17:14] I reflected on that

[01:17:15] Because

[01:17:16] I was trying to think what

[01:17:18] He didn't have at that point

[01:17:20] Any

[01:17:20] I was like

[01:17:21] He has nothing to gain from this

[01:17:23] Like he doesn't know that

[01:17:24] They're gonna end up in the games again

[01:17:25] Like there's no manipulation tactic

[01:17:28] This might be the last time he sees this guy

[01:17:30] So why did he do it

[01:17:31] And I think it's exactly

[01:17:32] What you said

[01:17:34] He was in such a bad position

[01:17:35] But that gave him a second

[01:17:37] To feel

[01:17:38] Better than someone else

[01:17:40] And feel more

[01:17:41] Organized and within

[01:17:43] Yeah

[01:17:43] We're still self-serving

[01:17:45] And generous

[01:17:47] Yeah

[01:17:48] Right

[01:17:48] Yeah

[01:17:50] Those are such things altruism

[01:17:52] All right

[01:17:54] Let's

[01:17:55] Move on to notes

[01:17:57] Veronica

[01:17:58] I don't think

[01:17:59] I feel like we have covered

[01:18:00] Most of what I had

[01:18:03] I did have just sort of denoted out

[01:18:05] the

[01:18:06] The line of thinking of how the front man

[01:18:09] Figured out that his brother

[01:18:11] Only had one bullet left in the gun

[01:18:14] And I thought that was sort of

[01:18:15] It was fun to watch

[01:18:16] It was a little ridiculous

[01:18:18] I was trying to think if he really would have been able to

[01:18:20] Figure that out and lay it all out

[01:18:22] In that moment

[01:18:25] But I did just think

[01:18:26] It was sort of a fun moment

[01:18:28] If I suspended whether

[01:18:30] I felt like it was grounded in reality or not

[01:18:33] Where he was

[01:18:34] Just listing out like I know this is a police issue

[01:18:37] Gun it has five bullets

[01:18:39] One chamber one chamber has to be empty

[01:18:42] One can have a blank

[01:18:43] So you only have three live rounds

[01:18:46] You've already killed somebody

[01:18:48] You broke a lock

[01:18:49] You only have one bullet

[01:18:50] I just thought it felt very

[01:18:53] I don't know

[01:18:54] Let's write out a Sherlock Holmes

[01:18:55] And I know it's Sherlock Holmes

[01:18:57] It's equally as ridiculous as that

[01:19:00] And he did the same thing

[01:19:02] A few episodes back

[01:19:03] With the hand set of the phone being the other way right

[01:19:06] So it makes me wonder if he was also

[01:19:10] A police officer before

[01:19:11] Or what

[01:19:13] And is he

[01:19:14] Do you think he's the older brother then

[01:19:16] I mean he looks

[01:19:17] Yeah he definitely

[01:19:18] Definitely

[01:19:19] Yeah

[01:19:19] Maybe he was the older brother

[01:19:21] That he's had a real hard life

[01:19:22] Maybe he's wise

[01:19:23] You know

[01:19:23] He became a

[01:19:25] A policeman

[01:19:26] Yeah interesting

[01:19:28] Yeah so I have a

[01:19:29] At least a partial answer on this

[01:19:31] And this is the one note I had

[01:19:33] So I wondered about that too

[01:19:36] It's like what does this

[01:19:37] Korean police rule

[01:19:38] Where one chamber

[01:19:39] The gun is empty

[01:19:40] And

[01:19:41] Another has a

[01:19:42] Like did they make this up

[01:19:43] Or what

[01:19:44] So I couldn't actually find

[01:19:47] A really definitive answer

[01:19:49] Without being able to read original

[01:19:51] Korean but the closest thing

[01:19:53] I could find was from a site

[01:19:55] Called the firearm blog

[01:19:58] Dotcom

[01:19:59] Which is basically just a website about guns

[01:20:03] And

[01:20:04] This writer says

[01:20:06] Even before the wildly popular series

[01:20:08] Squid Game from South Korea

[01:20:09] Erdog Netflix

[01:20:11] South Korean police were already known

[01:20:13] In the firearms community for caring revolvers

[01:20:16] However it's possible that the policies

[01:20:19] That govern

[01:20:19] How their revolvers are carried

[01:20:21] Or what made the usage more well known

[01:20:23] Rather than the revolvers themselves

[01:20:26] It's all true

[01:20:27] Well

[01:20:28] Not exactly the squid game part

[01:20:30] But numerous sources have confirmed

[01:20:32] That the Korean national police

[01:20:33] Who require that police give three chances

[01:20:36] For an armed perpetrator to give up their weapon

[01:20:39] Before the police may use their firearm

[01:20:42] The first resultant trigger pull

[01:20:45] By the police officer

[01:20:46] Will be a warning shot with a blank

[01:20:48] Which can then be followed by up to

[01:20:50] Three or four 38 caliber projectiles

[01:20:54] Some information claim that officers carry two blanks

[01:20:57] While most sources state that the hammer

[01:21:00] Rests on an empty chamber

[01:21:03] So there is some truth

[01:21:06] In this although the details might not be exactly

[01:21:10] accurate

[01:21:10] And I think we have to remember

[01:21:12] They didn't just totally pull it out of their ass

[01:21:14] Yeah they didn't completely make this up

[01:21:16] And

[01:21:17] We have to remember that Korea is in a

[01:21:20] Much less gun crazy society than America

[01:21:23] Like you just don't assume I've over there

[01:21:25] I think that everyone's armed

[01:21:27] Well and so with the revolver

[01:21:29] You have to pull

[01:21:30] The hammer

[01:21:31] I'm gonna say all

[01:21:32] So sorry for anyone who's

[01:21:34] Gun knowledgeable

[01:21:35] Because I'm not gonna use the right terms

[01:21:37] But you have to pull the hammer back

[01:21:38] Every single time right

[01:21:40] No

[01:21:40] So it would

[01:21:41] No

[01:21:42] I think you do

[01:21:42] On a revolver

[01:21:43] I think if you pull the trigger hard enough

[01:21:44] It just does it itself

[01:21:46] But if you pull it back then it's easier or something like that

[01:21:49] But then again I may just be thinking of toy guns

[01:21:51] I had when I was a kid

[01:21:52] And I don't actually know

[01:21:54] Yeah

[01:21:55] I was just thinking anyways

[01:21:56] That that would also slow down

[01:22:00] Three shots

[01:22:01] If you had to do that each time versus

[01:22:03] Yeah

[01:22:03] I'm not sure

[01:22:04] A typical handgun where three shots

[01:22:06] Could be a much closer succession

[01:22:09] Which probably isn't

[01:22:10] Right

[01:22:10] And terrible

[01:22:11] Part of what I was reading about related to this

[01:22:14] Is that

[01:22:15] A lot of the firearm use by police

[01:22:17] There might be for say crowd control

[01:22:20] If there was a riot or some such thing

[01:22:23] It's not like

[01:22:25] Here where you just assume

[01:22:26] You're having a shootout

[01:22:27] With another armed person

[01:22:30] And

[01:22:32] And at that point

[01:22:33] I'll stop and

[01:22:34] Please anybody who's more knowledgeable than this

[01:22:37] And then me

[01:22:38] About this and tell us

[01:22:39] Yeah one more episode

[01:22:40] To write in and let us know

[01:22:42] Okay

[01:22:44] My only head to notes

[01:22:45] One is

[01:22:46] Is that the dorm is the emptiness

[01:22:48] We've ever seen

[01:22:49] And

[01:22:49] And we get the biggest

[01:22:50] Most expansive view of it

[01:22:53] And

[01:22:54] At least uncluttered

[01:22:56] And so now I can see

[01:22:57] That they do have all the graphics

[01:22:58] On the wall representing all the games

[01:23:00] The dog on a cookie game

[01:23:01] With people holding like the shapes

[01:23:03] Above their head

[01:23:04] The glass bridge

[01:23:06] Even tug of war

[01:23:07] Marbles

[01:23:08] And the final game

[01:23:09] Which I won't say

[01:23:10] Because we're not there yet

[01:23:11] Um

[01:23:12] And I think

[01:23:14] It seems like an odd choice to have that

[01:23:16] Because the contestants really

[01:23:18] Should have been studying the hell out of those

[01:23:21] And also the VIPs

[01:23:22] You think somebody would have noticed

[01:23:24] Yeah and

[01:23:25] And

[01:23:26] I mean

[01:23:28] It's a little ridiculous that

[01:23:30] They didn't

[01:23:31] Or

[01:23:31] So they were definitely

[01:23:33] They are the whole time

[01:23:34] Like it wasn't something that got

[01:23:36] Added

[01:23:36] When they left out for a game

[01:23:38] Or

[01:23:39] I haven't gone to look back

[01:23:40] But I don't know

[01:23:41] Have any of you

[01:23:42] Like did you notice

[01:23:43] In an earlier episode

[01:23:44] That these definitely were up

[01:23:46] It's a good question

[01:23:46] There's definitely graphics

[01:23:48] On the walls

[01:23:49] Earlier

[01:23:50] But whether they were all there

[01:23:51] I don't know

[01:23:52] I remember seeing the shapes

[01:23:54] But I

[01:23:54] I think that was after

[01:23:56] The dog on a thing

[01:23:57] So maybe they painted them on afterwards

[01:23:59] And right

[01:24:00] And also the glass bridge

[01:24:02] One

[01:24:02] You wouldn't really understand what it means

[01:24:05] But tug of war

[01:24:06] You would know

[01:24:07] Yeah

[01:24:07] That was very clear

[01:24:08] You know

[01:24:10] Um

[01:24:11] But uh

[01:24:12] On a storytelling level

[01:24:14] If they were all there

[01:24:15] From the beginning

[01:24:16] It's interesting

[01:24:17] Because the bunk beds kind of hid

[01:24:18] All of that from us

[01:24:19] And as they were

[01:24:20] Taking away

[01:24:21] Over time and revealed it

[01:24:22] The art

[01:24:23] Then it was

[01:24:24] As the games

[01:24:24] Are being revealed in the episodes

[01:24:26] But yeah

[01:24:27] I'm gonna have to go back and look now

[01:24:28] See if I can see

[01:24:30] Um

[01:24:30] And then the second note

[01:24:31] Is just June host

[01:24:33] Phone says

[01:24:34] It's

[01:24:34] June 29th

[01:24:35] Monday

[01:24:36] And I went to the Squid Game wiki

[01:24:38] And it has a timeline

[01:24:40] It says

[01:24:40] That Gihun was picked up

[01:24:41] To go to the islands

[01:24:43] In the first place

[01:24:44] On either June 9th or 10th

[01:24:46] So

[01:24:47] From that

[01:24:48] To the um

[01:24:49] 29th

[01:24:50] Is about

[01:24:51] 19

[01:24:52] Or 20 days

[01:24:53] But the players voted

[01:24:55] To leave

[01:24:55] The games

[01:24:56] According to the wiki

[01:24:57] On June 11th

[01:24:58] And they didn't come back

[01:24:59] Until the 23rd

[01:25:00] So there was a 12 day gap

[01:25:02] In between there

[01:25:03] So they've only spent

[01:25:04] About seven or eight days

[01:25:05] On the island

[01:25:06] So far

[01:25:06] If this is right

[01:25:07] Which kind of makes sense

[01:25:08] So he's only been there for five

[01:25:09] Seven or eight days

[01:25:10] He came within the second time

[01:25:13] Yeah

[01:25:14] Oh I'm talking about

[01:25:15] Yeah but um

[01:25:17] No no I mean

[01:25:18] If they were there

[01:25:19] On the

[01:25:20] Let's say the 9th

[01:25:22] To the 11th

[01:25:24] That was green

[01:25:25] Red light green light

[01:25:26] Right

[01:25:26] That's two days

[01:25:27] And then they came

[01:25:28] But June host

[01:25:29] Right

[01:25:30] And they're for a week

[01:25:31] Yeah

[01:25:32] Yeah yeah

[01:25:33] He's been there for like six days

[01:25:35] Like the others have been there

[01:25:36] For seven or eight

[01:25:37] That's all

[01:25:38] Got it

[01:25:40] Yeah

[01:26:02] Okay we're back

[01:26:03] And we don't really have any news

[01:26:05] There's nothing

[01:26:05] Squid games

[01:26:06] But I thought

[01:26:07] We would talk a little bit

[01:26:08] About our squid game

[01:26:09] VR experience

[01:26:11] Veronica

[01:26:12] What are you most curious to hear about

[01:26:14] Anything in particular

[01:26:16] No I mean I just want to

[01:26:17] Yeah tell

[01:26:18] Tell what it was like

[01:26:19] Like

[01:26:20] Were you just in a big empty room

[01:26:22] And then it

[01:26:23] Displays onto the

[01:26:25] To the game

[01:26:26] And then

[01:26:26] Yeah

[01:26:26] What games

[01:26:28] What games did you play

[01:26:29] So I want to know

[01:26:30] Like

[01:26:30] The technical logistics of how

[01:26:32] This place was set up

[01:26:33] But then I want to know

[01:26:34] About the

[01:26:34] The fun part

[01:26:35] You want to tell

[01:26:36] Like how they set us up

[01:26:37] And everything

[01:26:37] Yeah

[01:26:38] So there were

[01:26:39] Motion sensors on wrist and ankles

[01:26:41] That you wear

[01:26:42] These little like

[01:26:43] Stick sticking off

[01:26:44] With little

[01:26:45] Orbs on the end of them

[01:26:46] On each of the wrist and

[01:26:48] Ankle

[01:26:49] Yeah

[01:26:49] And then

[01:26:50] VR helmet

[01:26:51] And headphones

[01:26:53] And a

[01:26:54] Vest that would like

[01:26:55] I think the whole point

[01:26:56] Of that was just to like

[01:26:57] Shake

[01:26:58] Right

[01:26:58] To vibrate

[01:27:00] Or was it

[01:27:00] I think so

[01:27:01] Track our position

[01:27:02] Yeah I don't know

[01:27:04] I think it was more about the vibrating

[01:27:06] So

[01:27:09] Yeah

[01:27:10] It was kind of a big empty room

[01:27:11] Wasn't even that big

[01:27:13] They gave you a lot of warnings

[01:27:15] Beforehand

[01:27:16] That hey remember

[01:27:17] The other people

[01:27:18] You're playing with are real

[01:27:19] So don't like run through them

[01:27:21] And knock them over and stuff

[01:27:23] They showed

[01:27:24] Graphics of little guys

[01:27:25] Running into each other

[01:27:26] And falling down

[01:27:27] Yeah

[01:27:28] But um

[01:27:29] So

[01:27:30] You know

[01:27:30] I work glasses as you both know

[01:27:32] That was a little bit of a drag

[01:27:34] It didn't work great

[01:27:37] I tried it for a moment without

[01:27:38] And everything was out of focus

[01:27:40] Like it wouldn't have worked

[01:27:42] With the glasses

[01:27:43] I'd say it was a B-

[01:27:46] Like when I was in focus

[01:27:47] When was out

[01:27:48] It was a little uncomfortable

[01:27:49] So that was an ideal

[01:27:51] If I could have worn contacts

[01:27:52] Which I don't wear anymore

[01:27:53] It would have been better

[01:27:54] So I would say that was the one negative

[01:27:57] But once they put you in the environment

[01:27:59] Like started the video

[01:28:02] It was very impressive

[01:28:04] Like it did not feel like

[01:28:06] Being in a closed-in room

[01:28:07] It felt like being in the environment

[01:28:09] Do you agree Jason?

[01:28:10] Yeah I felt like we were in the dorm

[01:28:12] And they even had a lot of people in tracks

[01:28:15] So so

[01:28:16] We all got to pick avatars ahead of time

[01:28:18] And I kept forgetting who everyone was

[01:28:20] Because my son

[01:28:21] 12 years old son Nico

[01:28:22] Was this cute blonde girl

[01:28:25] And uh

[01:28:25] Karen was this old man

[01:28:27] And it was funny to see the old man

[01:28:29] With Karen's like body language

[01:28:31] And David

[01:28:33] You were I think a black guy right

[01:28:35] And um

[01:28:36] My Asian wife Jenny was

[01:28:37] I don't get to be tall too often

[01:28:39] So I think I think she's tall

[01:28:41] And I didn't even know I'd pick the woman

[01:28:43] Until afterwards

[01:28:44] When we looked at the video

[01:28:45] And we were like oh I was a woman at all time

[01:28:48] So uh

[01:28:49] Anyway we were all in their tracksuits

[01:28:50] But then

[01:28:51] Outside the square where we were

[01:28:53] There were also other players

[01:28:55] And they would in between games

[01:28:56] Like chat with each other about what alliances

[01:28:58] They were gonna make and stuff like that

[01:29:00] That's cool

[01:29:01] So but yeah it was crazy to see like the MC Esher

[01:29:04] Be in the MC Esher environment

[01:29:06] Just be in those environments

[01:29:07] Yeah incredible

[01:29:09] It was like being on a holendoc

[01:29:11] Basically

[01:29:13] How did it compare

[01:29:15] Like have you guys done

[01:29:16] And that whole VR headset

[01:29:18] Which obviously

[01:29:19] Like I have an ocular

[01:29:20] And doesn't have all

[01:29:22] I don't have any extra body sensors

[01:29:24] Or anything like

[01:29:25] Have you guys done that

[01:29:26] And how did this

[01:29:27] Did this feel about on par with that

[01:29:29] Sort of thing

[01:29:30] Did it feel more immersive

[01:29:33] I have it in Oculus

[01:29:34] And I've used it quite a lot

[01:29:36] This felt more immersive

[01:29:39] Mostly because you're in this big expansive room

[01:29:42] And you don't have a controller

[01:29:44] You move around

[01:29:45] You walk around each other

[01:29:48] And your legs and arms are both

[01:29:52] You know

[01:29:53] Wherever you move them

[01:29:54] That's what you can see

[01:29:55] One weird thing is whenever I wanted to point at somebody

[01:29:58] Because we didn't have anything on our hands

[01:29:59] It would just be like my hand

[01:30:01] Or be right down

[01:30:02] Just sticky my wrist out

[01:30:03] You you

[01:30:05] But it felt more

[01:30:06] I mean as far as graphically

[01:30:08] And just feeling like you're in an environment

[01:30:10] The quest is freaking awesome

[01:30:11] You know

[01:30:12] And the PSVR

[01:30:13] So it was a lot like that

[01:30:14] But just because you could move around

[01:30:15] And stuff that made it feel

[01:30:17] More immersive to me

[01:30:19] And then so what games

[01:30:21] What games did you play

[01:30:22] Is it all of them

[01:30:24] I mean

[01:30:24] Should we give it away

[01:30:26] Or should we let people be surprised

[01:30:27] I guess if you don't want to hear this

[01:30:28] Then you shouldn't listen

[01:30:30] If you want to go do

[01:30:31] Because part of the fun was not knowing

[01:30:33] So if you're thinking about doing this

[01:30:35] You're hearing me

[01:30:36] And it's sandbox VR

[01:30:37] They're not sponsors or anything

[01:30:38] But it's awesome

[01:30:39] It's not cheap by the way

[01:30:40] But it's pretty fun

[01:30:42] It's worth it I think

[01:30:43] But I would not listen to this

[01:30:45] Because you might want to be surprised

[01:30:48] About what the games are

[01:30:49] I totally agree

[01:30:50] And

[01:30:52] And that's part and parcel of Squid Game

[01:30:54] Is not knowing what the games are going to be

[01:30:56] That's how one of the things

[01:30:58] It was so brilliant about the original show

[01:31:00] And I was thinking

[01:31:02] Man, I could do a lot better

[01:31:03] If I would go back and do it again

[01:31:05] But that's no fun

[01:31:06] Then you know everything that's going to happen

[01:31:09] What do we just say two games

[01:31:10] And then we'll leave

[01:31:11] Because there were six

[01:31:12] We'll say that

[01:31:13] So we'll talk about two

[01:31:14] But we'll leave the other four out

[01:31:15] So which two

[01:31:17] Let's talk about like ones

[01:31:18] That are closer to what they were in the show maybe

[01:31:21] Right

[01:31:21] I think the obvious one dimension

[01:31:23] Is Red Light Green Light

[01:31:25] Yeah

[01:31:26] So there was a version of Red Light Green Light

[01:31:28] It was not exactly the same

[01:31:31] But it was

[01:31:32] You know same idea

[01:31:34] And definitely

[01:31:35] I really like

[01:31:36] I thought

[01:31:37] Oh Red Light Green Light

[01:31:38] I would probably do fine at that

[01:31:41] And then

[01:31:42] So one thing is if you

[01:31:43] Get

[01:31:44] If you lose

[01:31:45] You're just out of the game for a little while

[01:31:47] And your avatar turns into like this transparent thing

[01:31:50] And you can't make any points during that time

[01:31:52] But then you come back in

[01:31:53] So you just lose time

[01:31:55] But I would have lost my life

[01:31:56] Because I fucking didn't even think to freeze

[01:31:59] The first time or two

[01:32:04] But you're doing something different

[01:32:05] Because you can't run

[01:32:06] So there's some of their activity

[01:32:07] That you have to do

[01:32:09] During the green light

[01:32:09] And then during the red light

[01:32:10] You have to freeze

[01:32:11] So for the record

[01:32:12] Jason was the winner of our group

[01:32:14] Out of the five of us

[01:32:16] And I finished

[01:32:16] I'm alive

[01:32:18] You were like second

[01:32:19] For a while there

[01:32:21] And then

[01:32:22] Yeah

[01:32:22] I had trouble in that last game

[01:32:24] Like I was having a hard time seeing a little bit

[01:32:27] That didn't go too well for me

[01:32:29] That's not fair

[01:32:30] You know there was something on the website about

[01:32:33] They had some

[01:32:34] Maybe they have some inserts for

[01:32:37] Gotcha

[01:32:38] Maybe we should ask about that

[01:32:39] Yeah

[01:32:40] For purchase

[01:32:41] But I got killed 28 times

[01:32:43] According to the statistics

[01:32:46] But Jason who is the winner

[01:32:47] Got killed 16 times

[01:32:50] We both be dead many times

[01:32:51] We both be dead many times

[01:32:53] And then

[01:32:54] The glass bridge was in there too

[01:32:57] And but it was much shorter

[01:32:59] And it was like two glass bridges

[01:33:01] So you would go across

[01:33:04] Like I forget five

[01:33:06] Some wires or something like that

[01:33:08] And then if you die

[01:33:09] You'd see yourself falling

[01:33:11] Oh

[01:33:12] And then

[01:33:12] And then you're this

[01:33:14] Transparent thing for a little while

[01:33:15] And the thing is

[01:33:16] They didn't tell us

[01:33:18] They didn't put us in any kind of order

[01:33:20] And so I'd sit

[01:33:22] I'd stand there and wait for somebody else to go

[01:33:24] And because we're all nice

[01:33:25] Somebody would like

[01:33:27] Karen would go first

[01:33:29] You know

[01:33:29] And then she would die

[01:33:31] And then I felt guilty

[01:33:33] I'm like

[01:33:33] I can't just keep letting other people go first

[01:33:35] So then I would go first

[01:33:36] And then I would die

[01:33:38] And I

[01:33:39] Because at first I was like

[01:33:40] I'm playing to win

[01:33:41] I'm not going to volunteer

[01:33:42] But when I saw a couple other people go

[01:33:45] And die

[01:33:45] I'm like I can't just let everyone else do it

[01:33:47] So then I just

[01:33:48] You know what was funny too

[01:33:48] And that second was

[01:33:50] It was very impressive

[01:33:51] Like that they were able to give you that experience

[01:33:54] In such a small space

[01:33:55] Yeah

[01:33:56] It was really well done

[01:33:58] But if you remember the character in Squid Game

[01:34:02] One of the guys starts to run

[01:34:04] And he goes like right

[01:34:06] Left left and then he dies

[01:34:09] And I felt

[01:34:11] I found I had that impulse very strongly in that game

[01:34:14] You kind of feel like

[01:34:15] I could just run across and make it

[01:34:17] Even though you

[01:34:18] Yeah, I know

[01:34:19] Yeah, yeah

[01:34:20] It just feels like if you

[01:34:21] If I go fast, I'm going to make it

[01:34:22] Well that's

[01:34:23] I mean that

[01:34:24] Sort of situation happened in the competition game too right

[01:34:27] Like something sort of like that

[01:34:29] Oh yeah, somebody just took off running

[01:34:31] Yeah

[01:34:32] And because you get to have multiple experiences

[01:34:35] Of going across

[01:34:36] Because it's shorter bridges

[01:34:37] And you want to get across as many times as you can

[01:34:42] It was very satisfying to make it across

[01:34:44] You know

[01:34:45] And if you

[01:34:45] And there were a couple of times

[01:34:47] Where I either didn't see or forgot

[01:34:50] Which one of the two was solid

[01:34:52] Because the person in front of me got the right

[01:34:54] Guess the right one

[01:34:55] And I was standing there like

[01:34:56] Where

[01:34:57] Wait, where did you go?

[01:34:58] Which one did you step on

[01:34:59] But once you make it across