15: "Halloween Party" (Squid Game S2E2)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah!

[00:00:03] Hmm

[00:00:04] Podcastica

[00:00:09] Pookieya, this is your one

[00:00:13] Pookieya, it's here

[00:00:15] I'm gonna eat this

[00:00:19] No, this is a pig, you're a pig, it's like a wind

[00:00:23] It's my one

[00:00:58] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason

[00:01:01] And I'm Veronica

[00:01:02] This episode, Recovering Squid Game Season 2, Episode 2, Halloween Party

[00:01:07] On New Year's Eve Day

[00:01:09] I know, that's kinda cool

[00:01:10] It had a New Year's Eve vibe

[00:01:12] It's a double, I know, it had more of a New Year's Eve vibe than a Halloween vibe

[00:01:16] I thought it was gonna be

[00:01:18] I thought it was some kind of Squid Game

[00:01:22] Related gathering

[00:01:23] Same

[00:01:24] You know, that already was on the books

[00:01:27] And that Gi-Hoon was going to dress up and infiltrate in his costume

[00:01:32] You know?

[00:01:33] Yeah

[00:01:34] I wonder if they knew that's what we would think

[00:01:36] I don't know, but really I think

[00:01:38] The whole reason for having it be a Halloween party

[00:01:41] Cause I was surprised Gi-Hoon showed up without his mask on, right?

[00:01:44] Yeah

[00:01:44] And I'm like, I guess he doesn't care about them

[00:01:47] He wants to be recognized

[00:01:49] But I think the reason to have it be a Halloween party

[00:01:52] Was just so you could have these Squid Game officers walking around

[00:01:57] And nobody would think about it, you know?

[00:01:59] Yeah

[00:02:00] Yeah

[00:02:01] Who was it?

[00:02:02] Was it Barbie that dressed up as one of the

[00:02:05] No

[00:02:06] Yeah

[00:02:06] No

[00:02:07] Was it?

[00:02:07] No, it was Franca

[00:02:10] Yeah

[00:02:10] Yeah

[00:02:11] Yeah

[00:02:11] I kept hoping one of them would whip their mask off and it'd just be Franca

[00:02:14] Franca

[00:02:14] Hey!

[00:02:15] That was so cool

[00:02:16] Oh, by the way, I don't know if people are tuned in to what's up with this podcast

[00:02:20] But I will probably be on every one of them

[00:02:24] And David, Veronica, and Daphne in various combinations will be on other ones

[00:02:29] So here's Veronica

[00:02:30] And you know, we all podcasted about season one, two

[00:02:32] And then Karen might jump in on one at some point, too

[00:02:35] That'll be funny

[00:02:36] Because we all love the show

[00:02:37] Yeah

[00:02:38] So let's get into it

[00:02:40] Do you want to read the plot summary?

[00:02:42] Sure

[00:02:43] Gi-hun, Jun-ho, and Wu-sok

[00:02:47] Wu-sok? Is that right?

[00:02:49] Yeah, I just say Choi

[00:02:51] That's in the wiki

[00:02:52] Oh, Choi, yeah, yeah

[00:02:53] That's what I have in my notes today

[00:02:54] And Choi, discover a lead from the recruiter's jacket pointing to a Halloween party

[00:03:00] Choi recruits a team of mercenaries

[00:03:02] Gi-hun implants a tracker in himself

[00:03:04] And the three devise a plan to locate the front man

[00:03:07] Meanwhile, Gi-hun continues to look after Sang-woo's mother and Se-byeok's little brother, Choi

[00:03:13] He works with a broker to reunite Choi with his mother from the north

[00:03:16] And places a silent call to his estranged daughter

[00:03:19] The team infiltrates the Halloween party

[00:03:22] Where Gi-hun is escorted by one of the game's pink-clad soldiers into a limousine

[00:03:26] With his team in pursuit

[00:03:28] He confronts the front man via a speaker demanding an end to the games

[00:03:32] When the vehicles following him are shot down, Gi-hun requests to be returned to the games as a player

[00:03:38] Kang-no-ol, a North Korean defector who seeks to extract her daughter from the north

[00:03:43] And the other one enters the game as a soldier

[00:03:46] Dun-dun-dun

[00:03:47] What'd you think?

[00:03:48] I thought it was great

[00:03:49] I was a little concerned after the first episode that

[00:03:55] The guy who created it, Hwang Dong-hyuk

[00:03:58] Was like, oh no, I gotta make another one

[00:04:00] What should we do?

[00:04:01] But after this episode, I felt more like

[00:04:04] Oh, you know, he's got a good idea for the evolution of this series

[00:04:07] And somewhere interesting to go with it

[00:04:10] And I felt much better about it

[00:04:12] So I really enjoyed it

[00:04:13] I thought it was started off kind of boring, you know?

[00:04:15] It didn't really have that intensity of a lot of Squid Game episodes

[00:04:20] But especially on second watch

[00:04:23] I was really getting into all the details and thinking about where I could go from here

[00:04:28] Yeah, nice

[00:04:29] What about you?

[00:04:30] I felt similarly

[00:04:31] Like I accidentally heard chatter that people weren't loving this season

[00:04:36] And so I went into watching episode one

[00:04:40] Like a little like, oh no, is this gonna be bad?

[00:04:43] And I actually loved it

[00:04:44] Like I listened to you guys, your coverage

[00:04:46] And feel like last week that I maybe liked it even more than you guys did

[00:04:51] Like I didn't have the same disappointments that some of you did

[00:04:55] That's good

[00:04:55] Like in the lack of sort of

[00:04:58] Like I think David commented on the lack of like attachment to the characters

[00:05:02] But I didn't

[00:05:03] I didn't need that

[00:05:04] Like to me the rock, paper, scissors game was just chilling

[00:05:08] Because I was picturing what it would be like myself to be in that situation

[00:05:11] I know

[00:05:12] I need to play that with my kids

[00:05:13] I've planned on

[00:05:14] Oh my god

[00:05:15] Because I had Nico watch it

[00:05:17] He's 13

[00:05:18] And I meant to say let's play it without the Russian roulette part

[00:05:22] I was like without the Russian roulette, right?

[00:05:24] I haven't gotten a chance to yet

[00:05:25] I'm sorry, go ahead

[00:05:25] No, no

[00:05:26] I mean that was kind of it

[00:05:27] Just that like I really enjoyed it

[00:05:29] I liked it

[00:05:30] I think I liked episode one more than this episode

[00:05:34] Although on rewatch I liked it more

[00:05:36] I just was confused a lot

[00:05:38] Like I didn't understand Gi-hoon's plan

[00:05:40] I did

[00:05:41] Like you, I thought the Halloween party was going to be completely a Squid Games related event

[00:05:46] And so I didn't understand what was happening

[00:05:48] I didn't really know where the Noel, Noel, I'm not sure how to pronounce that exactly

[00:05:55] The amusement park worker

[00:05:56] I didn't understand where her storyline was going

[00:05:58] But then at the end when it was revealed

[00:06:00] Like then I felt more like excited and so on rewatch

[00:06:05] Yeah

[00:06:05] Like I paid more attention to her storyline

[00:06:07] Yeah

[00:06:07] Because I was like, ooh, I want to see where this goes

[00:06:10] Mm-hmm

[00:06:10] Versus her just being like a player

[00:06:12] Yeah, yeah

[00:06:12] She just seemed like yet another desperate person playing the Squid Games

[00:06:16] And then you find out she's a worker

[00:06:18] And oh, I totally did not see that happening

[00:06:21] Me neither

[00:06:21] Until she started to pull the fucking mask on

[00:06:24] Same

[00:06:24] I was like, oh my god

[00:06:25] I was like, oh they have a different like recruitment method

[00:06:28] Right

[00:06:28] Like people just come like turn themselves into these lockers

[00:06:31] It wasn't adding up

[00:06:33] It was like, how does she know what this is?

[00:06:35] The guy just knocked on her window and gave her the card

[00:06:38] And now she says she wants to join

[00:06:39] And uh, I don't get it

[00:06:42] Yeah

[00:06:44] But yeah, it was great

[00:06:46] Yeah

[00:06:47] Uh, yeah, I mean I I think last week the whole bread lottery was so fascinating to watch and horrible

[00:06:55] Mm-hmm

[00:06:56] And yeah, the rock scissors paper like that's classic Squid Game fucked upness

[00:07:00] And so um, now that I'm more on board with the show

[00:07:05] I I I think I like those even better

[00:07:07] But this episode I felt like had more substance

[00:07:10] So we'll see

[00:07:11] We'll see

[00:07:11] Yeah

[00:07:12] All right

[00:07:13] So um, why don't we go into our points?

[00:07:15] Do you want to go first?

[00:07:16] Or do you want me to go first?

[00:07:18] Uh, you can go first

[00:07:19] Okay

[00:07:21] Gi-hun as a populist hero bucking the system

[00:07:26] Um, this is why I say this is a

[00:07:28] I think this is a good evolution of this series because

[00:07:32] Uh, I think squid the squid game itself is kind of a metaphor for wider society

[00:07:39] disparity of wealth unfair things that happen to people in society not just in the squid game because of that and um, I think the first season is about a victim of the system

[00:07:50] Gi-hun who ends up becoming empowered and then the second season seems like it's going to be about him trying to upend the system

[00:07:57] We don't know how we can talk more about what we think he's got in mind

[00:08:01] I kind of like that. He's not spelling it out because then we get to see it unfold

[00:08:06] Yeah, I mean my guess is he's gonna go kill those vips, but I don't know

[00:08:11] Like does that even solve the issue?

[00:08:14] Right

[00:08:14] Like I think that's the part

[00:08:15] Seems like there'll be more

[00:08:16] That's what makes it exciting I guess is that like how do you really end the squid game?

[00:08:21] Like how realistically because initially he goes in to capture the front man and the front man's like that's not gonna end it

[00:08:28] It's the vips but

[00:08:30] Right

[00:08:30] Like you could I don't think we can convince that level of corrupted

[00:08:36] When we we met the vips last season that type of people like are they going to be convinced?

[00:08:43] The same way ol nom was on his deathbed, you know, like yeah, i'm just curious how it ends. How do you really know the squid games?

[00:08:51] And so I think that makes it exciting and can he even have a happy ending like can this show even have it it'd be a it'd be a big twist if the vips

[00:09:01] You know, they're like

[00:09:02] I mean, I feel like that's who it's like

[00:09:07] Mark Zuckerberg though, right?

[00:09:09] Like

[00:09:10] Larry Ellison

[00:09:12] So I say he's a populist hero a populist is a person who appeals to ordinary people who think they're they're disregarded by elites and that can be elites because of academia but in this case

[00:09:30] I would say it's you know about the rich and the powerful and

[00:09:33] And um

[00:09:35] And he's really in tune this season. I think more than last season more aware

[00:09:41] Gi-hun is of the unfairness of the world and you can tell that by his conversation with in ho in the limo and he's not

[00:09:50] He's not gonna sit back and take it

[00:09:51] And I feel like this show similar to the handmaid's tale. This is the first time i've ever had that thought but they're both

[00:09:57] About a person caught up in this situation where they're powerless at the hands of these cold-hearted elite and they end up

[00:10:06] In these sick and twisted situations and then they end up fighting back

[00:10:11] Yeah, like oh, I guess I like that kind of show

[00:10:14] Because i'm podcasting on both

[00:10:16] In ho this is kind of a bit of a long one but in ho says all we did was create the game all of you participated by choice

[00:10:24] And gi-hun says don't give me that shit. You manipulate people who feel like they're at a dead end you drive them to their deaths and enjoy it

[00:10:31] So he really

[00:10:33] He's got no doubt that no, it's not us that we're not at fault for why this is happening

[00:10:39] And like I said, it's it's a metaphor for society. I think about the word oligarchy a lot lately

[00:10:44] Where it's about a small group of people having control over a country organization or institution and i'm gonna get a little bit real world here because I think one of the things about

[00:10:54] The squid game is it's a reflection of the real world and so like in the us the richest people can now put

[00:11:01] As much money as they want into politics to get the people they want elected after citizens united took away restrictions on how much money could go into politics

[00:11:11] They can lobby

[00:11:13] Politicians i.e bribe them to do what they want

[00:11:16] uh, the richest man in the world elon musk bought a social media platform for 45 billion dollars

[00:11:23] And put out a ton of campaign stuff on there a lot of it misinformation to get his candidate elected

[00:11:29] He also spent 277 million dollars. I read on the campaign and got a

[00:11:34] Role in that government. Yeah. Now he's at his right hand directing policy if that is not an oligarchy. I don't know what is that is an oligarchy

[00:11:41] You know what I mean? So um

[00:11:44] And and and the squid game itself can only happen because of this kind of disparity of wealth

[00:11:48] You need poor people who are desperate to survive and people rich enough to fund this game and provide the prize money

[00:11:54] and

[00:11:55] We have that. I think the reason we have that disparity of wealth is we have a system that

[00:12:04] Enables and encourages it. It's darwinistic. It's rewards ruthless competition self-interest

[00:12:11] A willingness to prioritize profit over people

[00:12:14] It values accumulation of wealth over fairness

[00:12:18] individual success over

[00:12:21] collective well-being

[00:12:23] Short-term gains over long-term sustainability

[00:12:26] And and people who succeed in that kind of system do it often at the expense of others

[00:12:30] They consolidate power and wealth, but they leave the majority to struggle with limited opportunities

[00:12:35] Increasingly more and more limited

[00:12:37] So the cycle of inequality is perpetuated

[00:12:39] And in ho says to

[00:12:41] Uh, gi-hun the game will not end unless the world changes

[00:12:45] And i'm like, well, how would the real world change?

[00:12:49] And I think about like

[00:12:52] Not like we need policies

[00:12:54] We need government that prioritizes collective well-being over cutthroat competition

[00:12:58] Fair wages universal health care

[00:13:00] Access to health care and education

[00:13:02] Uh, even progressive taxation to redistribute wealth among the people more equitably

[00:13:09] People think oh you're talking about communism or socialism

[00:13:12] But the us used to be more like this

[00:13:16] It's a combination of capitalism with some socialist aspects

[00:13:20] It's called social democracy

[00:13:21] And

[00:13:23] That doesn't mean that

[00:13:25] I mean we can all still have private property

[00:13:28] Privately owned businesses

[00:13:29] But balance that with programs that keep everyone secure

[00:13:34] Like a safety net, you know

[00:13:35] And it doesn't have to be that only cutthroat people

[00:13:39] Have power and everyone else struggles

[00:13:41] We can have a society that's more equitable

[00:13:44] Where all kinds of talents flourish

[00:13:46] Where everyone is comfortable and secure

[00:13:47] Where things that aren't necessarily the most profitable

[00:13:51] I mean even as a kid

[00:13:53] I was like I don't want to have to be a cutthroat

[00:13:55] I want to be able to do things that I want to do

[00:13:58] That aren't all about profit all the time, you know

[00:14:00] So anyway

[00:14:02] Um

[00:14:04] Of course gi-hun

[00:14:05] I don't think he's going to implement some kind of new government system

[00:14:09] But he wants to do something

[00:14:11] But he already is doing something

[00:14:14] Like in the theme of what you're saying

[00:14:16] Yeah

[00:14:16] Like you see it in the episode

[00:14:18] And the sort of the lives that he's touching

[00:14:21] And maybe it's too on the nose within the narrative of the story

[00:14:25] But in the broader picture of the themes you're talking about

[00:14:27] Like look at the two thugs from season one

[00:14:30] That now that their resources are not scarce

[00:14:33] They're actually like not being that terrible

[00:14:36] Yeah

[00:14:36] Like the guy who was trying to cut his organs out in season one

[00:14:39] He and all his lackeys

[00:14:41] Like at the very least

[00:14:44] Gi-hun has kept all these like gangsters off the streets doing bad stuff

[00:14:48] Because they're out looking for one guy

[00:14:50] Right, it's like a social program for gangsters or something

[00:14:54] And then the broker, same thing

[00:14:56] Which it was a little unbelievable

[00:14:57] Again like I don't know as far as like story narrative

[00:15:00] But in the theme of what you're saying

[00:15:02] When people aren't freaking desperate for the base resources

[00:15:06] Like I think you can be more communal

[00:15:10] And like

[00:15:10] Compassionate

[00:15:11] Yeah

[00:15:13] Because you're not like having to hoard stuff

[00:15:15] Because you're not scared of like not being able to make ends meet

[00:15:19] Yeah

[00:15:20] And there is some like inherent human nature to hoard resources

[00:15:24] Like I'm not

[00:15:24] Absolutely

[00:15:25] That we're all going to hold hands

[00:15:27] And there aren't still going to be people that want to hoard the resources

[00:15:31] Like I think we always have to battle that

[00:15:33] But I don't know

[00:15:34] I thought maybe that was like a theme the show was trying to hit with those people

[00:15:39] That we're seeing sort of change this season

[00:15:42] They're really pushing certain themes

[00:15:45] Pushing sounds bad but it's interesting to me

[00:15:48] And I think

[00:15:49] I feel like you're hitting on something

[00:15:51] Like to hoard those resources

[00:15:54] I feel like there's a fear underneath it

[00:15:57] And it's not just a fear

[00:16:00] Well, it's a fear that everyone

[00:16:02] Like they keep saying, you know, those people are trash

[00:16:07] And to be the kind of person who hoards wealth

[00:16:11] Behaves in a cutthroat way

[00:16:12] You have to not care about people

[00:16:14] You have to not have much compassion

[00:16:16] You have to think that people who aren't cutthroat like you

[00:16:20] Are losers and trash

[00:16:21] Or at least maybe even think the ones that are cutthroat are trash too

[00:16:25] But they're the ones that you can't manipulate and control

[00:16:29] And I think it all stems from a self-hatred honestly

[00:16:33] But anyway, like if you can

[00:16:37] This sounds so corny

[00:16:38] But when you open up your heart to people

[00:16:40] Like you have to feel like you're in a secure place like you're saying

[00:16:42] To be able to even entertain the idea of doing that

[00:16:46] But then you won't want to

[00:16:48] Then you'll care more

[00:16:49] And the reason why I say that's part of the theme is

[00:16:53] When Gi-hun offers more money to Jun-ho

[00:16:57] Or money at all, you know

[00:16:59] You can have as much of this as you want if you help me

[00:17:01] And he says the same thing to Choi

[00:17:03] And they both say, oh, we don't

[00:17:05] It's not about money for us

[00:17:06] And I believe them

[00:17:07] And then even the broker guy that we're going to talk about

[00:17:10] Who's helping people get back from North Korea

[00:17:12] They offer him money

[00:17:13] He's all, no, no, you've already given me enough

[00:17:15] I think the point of hitting on that a few times in this episode

[00:17:18] Is to show that not everyone prioritizes profit

[00:17:22] And accumulation of wealth

[00:17:24] And so it's just to show that, you know, we don't have to

[00:17:29] Put all of our focus on that

[00:17:31] There is this possibility that we can just be kind to each other

[00:17:35] That we can, yes, strive to get enough for ourselves

[00:17:38] But not all of it at the expense of anyone else having anything

[00:17:42] You know

[00:17:44] One thing that you said last week when you guys were talking about

[00:17:47] The recruiter that sort of, again, I think hit on these same themes

[00:17:51] But like something that we haven't talked about yet

[00:17:55] Was you were talking about the recruiter

[00:17:58] And how he was calling the contestants of the game trash

[00:18:01] Like they used that again this episode from the front man

[00:18:05] And something both the recruiter and the front man have in common

[00:18:08] Is that like they are not the rich elite

[00:18:10] Or at least they were not

[00:18:12] That's not where they came from

[00:18:13] But they both have this intense hatred

[00:18:16] Of the contestants in the game

[00:18:18] Who like the front man is literally one of them

[00:18:21] And the recruiter did not come from much better

[00:18:24] Like if you sort of think about what he recounted

[00:18:27] And even his own father needing to be in the games

[00:18:29] Suggest he did not come from like an advantaged family

[00:18:33] And so like this is almost like

[00:18:36] I think this is the important societal commentary

[00:18:39] That it's actually

[00:18:40] You said the elite rich don't even think about the contestants

[00:18:45] Like it's not really a

[00:18:46] It's not hitting on their radar

[00:18:47] But it's these middlemen

[00:18:50] These dogs of the elite doing what the elite say

[00:18:52] That have the intense hatred

[00:18:54] Of the people who literally came from where they're from

[00:18:58] I'm glad you called them dogs

[00:19:00] Because it's like

[00:19:00] It also is sort of like the dog eat dog world

[00:19:03] They see everyone else as

[00:19:05] It's me or him

[00:19:06] You know

[00:19:07] Yeah

[00:19:08] And so I mean but I think we see that in our society

[00:19:11] Where we see like middle class

[00:19:13] And particularly like new upper middle class

[00:19:16] Like people that have sort of shifted themselves

[00:19:19] Maybe from like either lower class

[00:19:21] Or lower middle class up to the upper middle class

[00:19:25] That I see like the most intense hatred

[00:19:28] For people who rely on like government programs

[00:19:32] Yeah

[00:19:32] Or things like that

[00:19:33] And to me like that's keeping

[00:19:36] Really the people who are actually still all at the bottom

[00:19:40] Because even that like upper middle class

[00:19:42] Is really not that different from the lower class

[00:19:46] When you add in like the Elon Musks of the world

[00:19:49] And so I think like that's keeping us pitted against each other

[00:19:54] So we don't focus on the people who like care so little about us that

[00:19:59] They don't even think about us as trash

[00:20:01] They just don't think about us

[00:20:03] They're only focused on themselves

[00:20:04] Yeah, pinning us against each other just like in the school game

[00:20:06] Yeah

[00:20:07] And man, it's so weird

[00:20:08] I was at a holiday party a couple days ago

[00:20:14] And this one friend of ours who's super conservative

[00:20:17] And we've known since we were kids

[00:20:19] Got drunk and he was talking to me about politics

[00:20:23] He really wanted to get into it with me

[00:20:25] Just really wanted to

[00:20:26] And I was getting pretty heated

[00:20:28] Because it's hard for me not to

[00:20:30] But he started talking about

[00:20:32] What if you know all the people down on this one street in our town

[00:20:36] Who are homeless and on drugs

[00:20:39] What if we just took them and put them in this program

[00:20:42] Where they had the choice

[00:20:44] You can either stay here until you

[00:20:47] It's like rehab until you're not addicted anymore

[00:20:50] And you have to stay

[00:20:52] You can't leave unless you're not addicted anymore

[00:20:54] Or you can just die

[00:20:57] And I was like, wow

[00:20:58] That's really dark man

[00:21:00] That's like right out of the squid game

[00:21:03] I mean that's just clearly someone who has not been

[00:21:06] Personally touched by addiction

[00:21:08] Has not seen it up close and what that actually like does to a person

[00:21:12] You know like that's that disconnect from the compassion

[00:21:15] Because you haven't stopped to like examine what you're saying

[00:21:18] He was calling them

[00:21:19] He's like they have no purpose

[00:21:21] They have no use and

[00:21:23] Wow, that was an interesting conversation

[00:21:28] But that's exactly the thing

[00:21:30] Like that situation

[00:21:31] Like he's not the elite upper class

[00:21:35] You know, he's pitting himself against people

[00:21:38] That aren't that different from him thinking they're trash

[00:21:41] So that he's distracted from the bigger problems, right?

[00:21:45] Like...

[00:21:45] But I also, I think

[00:21:48] He's my friend so I hate to say too much more about it

[00:21:51] But I do think a lot of times

[00:21:54] That kind of thinking comes from a self-hatred

[00:21:58] And you project it out onto the people around you

[00:22:01] And a fear and things, you know, those kind of darker, lower vibration emotions

[00:22:07] The last thing about this point is just

[00:22:09] It was pretty thrilling to hear Gi-hun say

[00:22:12] Put me back in the game

[00:22:14] And then the way that he convinced

[00:22:16] I mean, maybe Inho already had an idea he was going to do that

[00:22:20] Otherwise, why even meet in person in a limo where the gas is ready to go?

[00:22:24] But he said, you know, if I'm back in the game those fat cats you serve will find it fun for sure

[00:22:29] So take me to the games

[00:22:30] And that was just the way to get Inho to say yes

[00:22:33] By appealing to the people who pay his check

[00:22:36] Like, it's a profit motive

[00:22:37] Well, I guess Inho doesn't care about the money anymore

[00:22:39] But the games are for the entertainment of these VIPs

[00:22:44] And that's what they would find entertaining

[00:22:46] So yeah, do it

[00:22:47] And he even baited it as a game in and of itself

[00:22:50] Like putting him back in the game was a game for Inho to win

[00:22:56] Like I forget how exactly he phrased it, but he's like

[00:22:59] Beat me the way O-Il-Nam couldn't or something like that

[00:23:02] Basically saying like, prove me wrong

[00:23:04] And so he almost like played the game mentality back on him

[00:23:10] Which I thought was interesting

[00:23:11] Yeah, I think he was just saying

[00:23:13] I beat O-Il-Nam because he had played that game with O-Il-Nam

[00:23:18] About whether someone would help the homeless person

[00:23:20] Which another, that's sort of that same theme about whether people are trash or not

[00:23:25] Gi-Hoon was basically betting no people are good, they're compassionate

[00:23:28] And he won

[00:23:29] And now he's saying, do you think I can win against you or not?

[00:23:32] Basically saying if you bring me back into the game

[00:23:34] Will it come back to bite you in the ass?

[00:23:36] Or will you prevail over me?

[00:23:37] Or something like that

[00:23:38] I think that's what he was getting at

[00:23:41] Okay, what do you got for your first point?

[00:23:44] I don't know, let's talk a little bit about Kang Noel

[00:23:47] Is that how you're saying it?

[00:23:48] I would say Noel, Noel, but I don't know

[00:23:52] Noel

[00:23:53] So as I said, like when we were starting the episode

[00:23:56] I felt a little like, why are we getting this long, drawn out storyline

[00:24:01] And I actually, I think I just misunderstood or missed some of the subtleties

[00:24:07] Of what was going on here

[00:24:11] Like at first I was like, why does she have this sort of preoccupation with this little girl

[00:24:16] Like how often is this girl at the amusement park?

[00:24:18] And then like on second watch I was like, you're such an idiot

[00:24:20] This is one of the other workers' daughters

[00:24:22] So she's here every day

[00:24:24] So that's why she has that relationship

[00:24:27] And then, so she obviously has the soft spot for this little girl

[00:24:30] The little girl has leukemia

[00:24:33] And so she's going back in the games

[00:24:35] Presumably, or no, she's going into the games as a keeper

[00:24:38] Presumably to get money for the treatment for this little girl

[00:24:42] Since she basically, I think her daughter is probably at least three

[00:24:47] The little girl she left in North Korea

[00:24:50] If she's alive

[00:24:52] Well, yeah, because she was one when she got out, right?

[00:24:55] She was one and then one of the workers said they'd worked with her at least two years

[00:24:59] At the amusement park when she was quitting

[00:25:02] That's right, yeah

[00:25:04] And so, I mean, I just feel like it was a really lot

[00:25:08] A large part of the episode dedicated to this sort of backstory

[00:25:14] I didn't find terribly compelling

[00:25:17] But I'm excited that we're going to get to see one of the gamekeepers

[00:25:23] And kind of how that's recruited

[00:25:25] But I don't know, I just didn't

[00:25:28] I'm curious what you thought

[00:25:30] Like, did it catch you from the beginning?

[00:25:32] Did you understand why we were following this whole story?

[00:25:36] I mean, yeah, I just thought it was another story of another person

[00:25:41] And we're seeing motivations for her

[00:25:45] But I'm still not exactly sure what to think

[00:25:50] Because, well, I have a few questions

[00:25:54] One is, she's Kang Noel

[00:25:59] And Kang is the surname

[00:26:00] Or what we call the last name

[00:26:02] And that's also Sebyuck's surname

[00:26:05] So, are they related?

[00:26:07] Or is that a coincidence?

[00:26:08] If it's a coincidence, I'm like, why?

[00:26:10] Why would you have that be a coincidence and confuse us like that?

[00:26:13] Maybe it's a common name in North Korea

[00:26:15] But, what's up with that?

[00:26:18] I don't know, I didn't catch that

[00:26:20] But, they both were going to the same broker

[00:26:24] Literally back to back

[00:26:26] And so if she was

[00:26:28] Did Sebyuck go to him too?

[00:26:30] Sebyuck went to him too

[00:26:31] She like threatened him, I think in season one

[00:26:34] Same guy, okay

[00:26:35] And then

[00:26:37] Like, Gi-hun was there

[00:26:39] Literally looking at pictures

[00:26:41] Of Sebyuck's mom on the phone with the broker

[00:26:45] He leaves as

[00:26:47] Newell comes up the stairs

[00:26:49] So if this was somehow

[00:26:51] A relation to them

[00:26:53] Would the broker not have mentioned it?

[00:26:55] Yeah, that's why I'm confused

[00:26:57] To her like, hey, I know some of your family

[00:26:59] Right

[00:27:01] He seemed like the point was that he is a good person

[00:27:04] So, I don't know

[00:27:06] That's one question I have

[00:27:09] I did find it

[00:27:11] I guess kind of interesting that she's

[00:27:14] Seemingly tried to kill herself

[00:27:16] She has marks on her wrist

[00:27:18] Multiple times, yeah

[00:27:19] She took, we saw her took a whole bottle of pills

[00:27:23] Well, was

[00:27:24] I feel like we needed to see her throw that up

[00:27:26] Yeah

[00:27:26] To understand what was

[00:27:27] Because I was like, is she trying to overdose right now?

[00:27:31] Yeah, I didn't know for sure about that

[00:27:32] Or if it was just like an extra large dose

[00:27:35] But she'd be fine or what?

[00:27:37] Yeah

[00:27:37] I was also wondering

[00:27:39] Now we know the answer to this

[00:27:41] But why did that guy just knock on her window

[00:27:45] And give her the card?

[00:27:46] What about the Dakchi? Subway Dakchi?

[00:27:48] What's going on here?

[00:27:49] You know, but that ended up being really satisfying

[00:27:51] When we saw the answer to that

[00:27:53] With the little kid

[00:27:55] Who was super cute, by the way

[00:27:56] I know

[00:27:57] Her reactions to things

[00:27:59] So good

[00:28:03] Then, you know

[00:28:05] Noel quits her job

[00:28:09] We think

[00:28:11] Well, so she

[00:28:13] See, the thing is where I'm confused

[00:28:15] She offered the broker more money

[00:28:17] So she had money to give him

[00:28:20] So, and he didn't need it

[00:28:22] So, I'm like

[00:28:23] Well, it seems like more money

[00:28:24] Is not going to help in that situation

[00:28:26] So what you're saying is

[00:28:27] You think she quit because

[00:28:30] Of this little girl

[00:28:31] And decided to do the squid game

[00:28:33] Which I think you're probably right

[00:28:34] But it confused me

[00:28:36] Why she burned that picture

[00:28:41] I don't know

[00:28:43] I felt like, yeah

[00:28:44] I didn't understand the picture

[00:28:45] I guess just like

[00:28:46] I'm getting rid of all my belongings

[00:28:47] I'm going off to do this

[00:28:48] Yeah

[00:28:48] I hope I can send money back

[00:28:50] To them

[00:28:51] But why not keep the picture

[00:28:53] And then

[00:28:54] Like the guy didn't explain to her

[00:28:57] When she rolled the window down

[00:28:58] Like he didn't explain the situation to her

[00:29:01] Did he?

[00:29:02] But she already knew

[00:29:03] She knew the routine

[00:29:04] She could quit her job

[00:29:04] I think she knew the routine

[00:29:06] And then

[00:29:06] Because she didn't call the number

[00:29:08] Until after she quit her job

[00:29:10] I don't know

[00:29:10] It was just kind of strange

[00:29:11] Yeah

[00:29:12] I mean, hopefully

[00:29:12] We find out more

[00:29:14] I mean, there's a lot of things

[00:29:15] Last episode

[00:29:16] That I felt like were left

[00:29:17] Just questions

[00:29:17] That we already got the answers

[00:29:18] To this episode

[00:29:20] So maybe we'll understand

[00:29:22] Some of these things

[00:29:24] But I don't know

[00:29:25] I think she quit her job

[00:29:26] Knowing

[00:29:26] Okay, I'm going to go do the squid game

[00:29:28] Now

[00:29:28] As a worker

[00:29:29] You know

[00:29:30] That's what I took from it

[00:29:31] Even though she hadn't called yet

[00:29:33] She knew the routine

[00:29:34] Yeah

[00:29:34] But another thing

[00:29:36] Is interesting to me

[00:29:37] So she

[00:29:38] I just love the way they did this

[00:29:39] Where she enters this truck

[00:29:41] And we're like

[00:29:41] What?

[00:29:42] How does she know to go in there?

[00:29:43] And then she gets in that chamber

[00:29:44] And it's

[00:29:45] Oh, one, one

[00:29:47] And then she puts the uniform on

[00:29:48] And that's when they played

[00:29:49] The squid game music

[00:29:50] Yes!

[00:29:50] I don't think we've heard up until now

[00:29:52] And it totally brings back

[00:29:53] Like, oh my god, that place

[00:29:55] You know

[00:29:55] Yeah

[00:29:56] What a great

[00:29:57] Just way to

[00:29:57] Oh man, that really got me

[00:29:59] At the end there

[00:29:59] But then she has a triangle

[00:30:01] On her mask

[00:30:03] Which means

[00:30:04] The circles are the

[00:30:07] Peons

[00:30:07] Who have to drag the bodies away

[00:30:09] The triangles are the armed ones

[00:30:11] They're soldiers

[00:30:12] Enforcers

[00:30:13] We saw a picture of her

[00:30:15] In uniform in North Korea

[00:30:16] With her husband

[00:30:17] And aren't most North Korean citizens

[00:30:20] Like trained in military defense?

[00:30:22] Like isn't it required

[00:30:23] To serve in the military?

[00:30:24] I think so

[00:30:25] So maybe that's why she automatically got pulled in

[00:30:27] Because she's probably

[00:30:28] Has experience with a weapon?

[00:30:30] Maybe, but we heard

[00:30:31] Dokji guys say

[00:30:32] He had to be a peon for a while

[00:30:34] Until they gave him a gun, you know?

[00:30:35] Yeah

[00:30:36] So maybe she's been doing it for a while

[00:30:37] I don't know

[00:30:38] Maybe

[00:30:38] Oh, maybe she's going back

[00:30:40] Maybe that's why she knew

[00:30:41] Yeah

[00:30:42] Okay

[00:30:42] Maybe that's how she got out of North Korea

[00:30:45] Maybe

[00:30:46] Maybe

[00:30:46] Maybe she's only done it for the last two years

[00:30:48] Um

[00:30:49] But those triangle people

[00:30:51] Are the ones who execute the losers

[00:30:53] Uh

[00:30:55] So

[00:30:55] You know

[00:30:58] We also found out from

[00:31:00] Dokji guy

[00:31:01] That he's a sleazebag

[00:31:03] Who thinks everyone's trashed

[00:31:04] And killed his own father

[00:31:06] And um

[00:31:08] Daphne

[00:31:09] Last time

[00:31:10] Speculated that

[00:31:11] Maybe

[00:31:11] Maybe

[00:31:12] They promote people who have that mindset

[00:31:16] So

[00:31:16] It's starting to make me wonder

[00:31:18] I don't think

[00:31:19] That this Noel

[00:31:21] Has that mindset necessarily

[00:31:23] But I'm not sure

[00:31:25] I don't know

[00:31:26] Damn, I didn't even think about that

[00:31:28] You know, maybe she's evil

[00:31:30] I mean, that'd be like a

[00:31:31] Really cool and surprising twist

[00:31:34] If she's actually like

[00:31:36] A dark character

[00:31:37] Yeah

[00:31:38] I mean, she did have to flee

[00:31:39] Cause she had

[00:31:39] Didn't she like attack her boss or something?

[00:31:42] Although I don't think that

[00:31:43] Is anything I make a judgment on

[00:31:45] In

[00:31:47] Someone living in North Korea

[00:31:48] Right

[00:31:48] But she burned that picture

[00:31:49] So I'm like, was that just

[00:31:51] Yeah, like you said

[00:31:51] To get rid of your possessions before you go?

[00:31:53] Or was it like

[00:31:54] Eh, forget this kid?

[00:31:55] I don't know

[00:31:55] I don't know what to think

[00:31:57] I think I'm probably just missing something

[00:31:58] But I don't know

[00:31:59] I took it as

[00:32:01] No amount of money

[00:32:02] Is going to

[00:32:04] Save her daughter

[00:32:05] Or help her find her

[00:32:06] Even if she is alive

[00:32:07] It seems

[00:32:08] And so like

[00:32:08] What she can do

[00:32:09] Is get enough money

[00:32:11] Possibly

[00:32:12] To save this other little girl

[00:32:14] Like, you know

[00:32:16] Just sort of trying to take some of her power back

[00:32:18] Right

[00:32:19] Even though it's not her daughter

[00:32:20] To help

[00:32:21] But that would be

[00:32:23] The most boring solution

[00:32:25] And I think it's probably right

[00:32:27] But I would

[00:32:27] I think I'd be more interested

[00:32:29] If it turned out

[00:32:30] She was more complicated than that

[00:32:31] And that she's actually got some

[00:32:34] Evil tendencies

[00:32:35] Or bad tendencies

[00:32:36] That maybe she'll have to overcome

[00:32:37] Yeah, maybe it'll be both

[00:32:39] Yeah

[00:32:39] She's complex

[00:32:40] Yeah

[00:32:41] Alright, you wanna

[00:32:42] Why don't you do another one

[00:32:43] Since my first one was kinda long?

[00:32:46] Uh, sure

[00:32:47] I said I would talk a little bit about Choi too

[00:32:51] And some of the questions that

[00:32:52] You guys right at the end of the episode

[00:32:54] Like had all these questions about

[00:32:57] Whether Mr. Kim

[00:32:59] Well, first of all

[00:33:00] Like we didn't even know if Choi was still alive

[00:33:02] At the end of episode one

[00:33:04] Which I watched them like pretty quickly

[00:33:06] Yeah

[00:33:06] And so a lot of the mystery you guys were left with

[00:33:10] I sort of missed out on

[00:33:11] Cause I immediately

[00:33:12] Was onto the next episode

[00:33:14] But obviously he's not dead

[00:33:18] And I still don't know that we know for sure

[00:33:20] Mr. Kim

[00:33:21] Whether he fully made the choice

[00:33:24] No

[00:33:24] To save Choi

[00:33:25] I don't think so

[00:33:26] Or whether he hesitated in the moment

[00:33:28] But I do think

[00:33:29] I do think we learned enough

[00:33:31] To know that they had enough of a relationship

[00:33:33] That

[00:33:35] I think at least his hesitation

[00:33:37] Yeah

[00:33:37] Came from

[00:33:38] I don't actually wanna kill this guy

[00:33:39] I think so

[00:33:40] I do actually care about him on a human level

[00:33:42] In some way

[00:33:43] I mean it could've been frozen

[00:33:46] Just pure frozen

[00:33:47] Yeah

[00:33:47] If you're not thinking at all

[00:33:48] But here's what I think

[00:33:49] Cause I thought about that a little bit more

[00:33:51] And I wish I'd express myself a little more clearly last week

[00:33:53] But if you've got two hands out

[00:33:55] You know one hand can save your friend

[00:33:58] In this case it would be the scissors

[00:34:00] If he left the scissors out

[00:34:01] And the paper would kill his friend

[00:34:03] And you really wanted to save your friend

[00:34:04] Then you would take the paper away

[00:34:06] And leave the scissors there

[00:34:07] So there was no doubt

[00:34:09] What was going to happen

[00:34:10] But by leaving both

[00:34:12] There is some doubt

[00:34:12] You don't know for sure

[00:34:13] That Doc you guys gonna say

[00:34:15] What did you say

[00:34:16] They had established

[00:34:18] That no movement is

[00:34:20] Is

[00:34:21] Subject

[00:34:22] Like he did it earlier

[00:34:24] Yeah

[00:34:24] Okay

[00:34:25] But even so

[00:34:27] Like you just

[00:34:28] If you really wanna make sure

[00:34:31] Then you pull one hand away

[00:34:32] And leave the scissors there

[00:34:33] You know

[00:34:34] And he did not do that

[00:34:35] So that's why I think

[00:34:37] There's at least some doubt about

[00:34:38] Whether that was his

[00:34:39] Full intention

[00:34:41] I think the point of him not doing that

[00:34:43] Was to say

[00:34:44] He's not sure what to do

[00:34:46] Yeah

[00:34:46] And at least that shows

[00:34:49] He wasn't just

[00:34:50] I mean especially for someone

[00:34:51] Who was the kind of

[00:34:53] Initially when he was introduced

[00:34:55] A pretty like cold hearted gangster

[00:34:57] That at least he had some hesitation

[00:34:59] Like he's obviously probably killed people

[00:35:01] Or at least been part of a chain that does it

[00:35:05] So he at least had enough humanity

[00:35:07] That he had to hesitate at that decision

[00:35:09] And so there was something there

[00:35:11] What was the first thing you brought up?

[00:35:14] Before that?

[00:35:15] Oh just that Choi is alive

[00:35:16] Oh yeah

[00:35:17] He was just tied up and gagged still

[00:35:19] I mean

[00:35:19] What about that?

[00:35:21] Like Choi and

[00:35:23] Dokji guy I call him

[00:35:25] They had their game

[00:35:26] Somewhere else

[00:35:27] And then what?

[00:35:29] He dragged him there bound and gagged

[00:35:31] Sugihoon's place

[00:35:32] And stuck him in a room

[00:35:34] That seems like a flaw to me

[00:35:36] Unless I'm missing something

[00:35:37] No I noticed a lot of

[00:35:39] Things

[00:35:40] What feels like flawed to me

[00:35:43] Is that when it's convenient

[00:35:45] The people associated with the squid games

[00:35:49] Are almost like magical in their oversight

[00:35:52] In their knowledge

[00:35:53] But then when it's not convenient to the plot

[00:35:57] Like suddenly there's like these major

[00:36:00] I don't know holes

[00:36:02] Like I just feel like

[00:36:04] A lot of the stuff you guys talked about last episode

[00:36:07] Like Gi-hun searched this whole time

[00:36:09] Like there's no way he was doing any of that undetected

[00:36:12] So why draw it out for so long?

[00:36:14] And why this whole like

[00:36:16] I don't know

[00:36:18] It felt like a bit of a show

[00:36:20] And then like stuff like this

[00:36:21] Where like he's magically getting this guy into the hotel

[00:36:24] But then he dies by Russian roulette

[00:36:27] With Gi-hun by his own choice

[00:36:29] Like I just

[00:36:29] Some of the stuff felt a little like

[00:36:32] I don't understand what's going on

[00:36:33] But it's dramatic and fun

[00:36:36] Like it was dramatic for Choi to be

[00:36:38] You know, handcuffed there

[00:36:41] I wasn't expecting Jun-ho to bust it on him there

[00:36:44] It seems especially crazy

[00:36:46] Fun but like what?

[00:36:47] To have him there

[00:36:48] Like how did that happen?

[00:36:50] You dragged him there?

[00:36:52] Yeah

[00:36:53] Yeah

[00:36:53] All right

[00:36:54] And I feel like this

[00:36:56] In general Choi

[00:36:57] Like reminded me very much

[00:36:59] Of how I felt about Gi-hun last season

[00:37:02] Just like initially he's this sort of

[00:37:04] Annoying character

[00:37:05] But like very quickly becomes endearing

[00:37:08] Like his impassioned

[00:37:10] Sort of response to

[00:37:13] The recruiters death

[00:37:15] After having killed Mr. Kim

[00:37:16] I think was like really endearing

[00:37:18] And even though

[00:37:20] Like he also turned the money down

[00:37:22] The same way Jun-ho did

[00:37:24] But it felt like there was a little more

[00:37:25] Hesitation in his voice

[00:37:26] And a little like

[00:37:27] I want to do this for the right reason

[00:37:29] But also like if you want to give me a little

[00:37:30] No I didn't see that

[00:37:31] I was expecting to see that

[00:37:33] He just seems so angry

[00:37:35] He's so angry at what happened

[00:37:37] Yeah

[00:37:38] And he's like I'm gonna

[00:37:39] Take those fat cats and make them play

[00:37:41] Rocks, scissors, paper, and then shoot them dead

[00:37:43] Or whatever he said

[00:37:45] But I also

[00:37:47] One thing about him

[00:37:48] The show still has a sense of humor

[00:37:51] Because when

[00:37:52] All these mercenaries

[00:37:54] Were

[00:37:56] Target shooting at

[00:37:57] Inside the shooting range

[00:37:58] In Gi-hun's place

[00:37:59] And Choi's telling Gi-hun

[00:38:03] It's all good

[00:38:03] Nothing's gonna happen

[00:38:04] You've got your tracker

[00:38:05] So you can relax

[00:38:06] Don't worry

[00:38:07] And then right then

[00:38:08] Boom!

[00:38:08] The fires and he's all

[00:38:09] Yeah

[00:38:10] Yeah

[00:38:11] I just love that

[00:38:12] Not at all relaxed

[00:38:14] Yeah and we needed him

[00:38:15] Because Gi-hun is not the

[00:38:18] Comic relief this season

[00:38:19] That's right

[00:38:20] And last season he

[00:38:21] He could be that

[00:38:22] In a lot of episodes

[00:38:23] If we didn't have him

[00:38:25] He's John Wick now

[00:38:27] Or something

[00:38:27] Yeah

[00:38:29] I still like

[00:38:30] I don't buy that they would've let him go in the club

[00:38:34] Like what was his purpose there

[00:38:37] Other than to make us laugh

[00:38:39] With his ridiculous little clubbing outfit

[00:38:41] That he was excited about

[00:38:42] And that freaking horse mask he had on

[00:38:45] But like even up to the moment they walked in the club

[00:38:48] He didn't seem to be aware of what the plan was

[00:38:52] Because he also suggested that Gi-hun get a mask

[00:38:55] And obviously Gi-hun's plan was to go in and be recognized

[00:38:59] And be taken

[00:39:00] As I just felt like

[00:39:02] I was having a hard time believing that

[00:39:05] Jun-ho and Gi-hun who both seem very like

[00:39:08] Focused and determined

[00:39:09] And this crew of like military guys

[00:39:12] Would allow this sort of like doofus

[00:39:15] Who doesn't know anything

[00:39:17] Into the sort of like critical heart of the mission

[00:39:19] But like he wouldn't let Jun-ho go in

[00:39:22] I know

[00:39:23] I feel like Jun-ho was a lower risk

[00:39:27] Like put a mustache on him

[00:39:28] And he's a lower risk than Joy going in here

[00:39:31] And so I did struggle like again

[00:39:34] Just with some of the like plot of that didn't add up to me

[00:39:39] If Jun-ho and Gi-hun really felt like this was such an important mission

[00:39:43] Would you let Choi go in with you into the belly of the beast?

[00:39:48] I don't know.

[00:39:48] Yeah.

[00:39:49] Obviously it was fine.

[00:39:50] He got tasered and left at the bar

[00:39:52] But it was just

[00:39:54] It was just interesting

[00:39:56] And why not Jun-ho?

[00:39:57] I'm thinking maybe it's because

[00:39:59] They did just for storytelling reasons

[00:40:02] They didn't want to connect Jun-ho with his brother yet

[00:40:06] Yeah.

[00:40:09] I think that's all I had

[00:40:10] Just that Choi is goofy and I'm kind of enjoying his character

[00:40:14] I am curious if he will continue to be part of the crew as they go and enact Plan B

[00:40:20] Or if he's sort of out for a while and is just going to hang back

[00:40:24] But I feel like we do need his character

[00:40:27] Yeah.

[00:40:29] Yeah. I wonder if that tracker can be tracked all the way to like Squid Game Island

[00:40:33] And will these guys be in the story now after this?

[00:40:37] Is there not some like

[00:40:39] Hey, maybe this is too like sci-fi

[00:40:41] But it just feels like this secret island they would have some like

[00:40:45] Satellite scrambler so that that kind of thing couldn't get out unless they like

[00:40:50] Wanted to send a call out

[00:40:52] Is that a thing that exists?

[00:40:53] Am I just like making up technology?

[00:40:55] It's in Star Trek

[00:40:56] So naturally it must exist

[00:40:59] Or Star Wars

[00:41:00] I don't know

[00:41:02] Maybe

[00:41:03] I don't know

[00:41:03] Or pretend it doesn't exist

[00:41:07] Whatever they want

[00:41:08] In this show

[00:41:10] Do you think our little like squid fishing guy is who's going to take him out?

[00:41:15] Is that Plan B?

[00:41:17] The boat captain guy?

[00:41:19] Yeah.

[00:41:20] Oh, I bet you he comes back

[00:41:22] Yeah.

[00:41:23] I think that would be kind of cute

[00:41:24] Yeah

[00:41:25] I feel like we just have like a good little ragtag crew of good guys trying to take this place down

[00:41:32] Yeah, with this guy Choi

[00:41:34] He's pretty over the top

[00:41:37] And I could easily just be like

[00:41:39] Ah, it's too goofy

[00:41:40] But then I have to remember that there were characters like that in season one too

[00:41:45] Especially like Min Yao

[00:41:47] You know, the way she acted

[00:41:49] Just kind of over emotional

[00:41:51] And I'm like that's just what kind of show this is

[00:41:53] So enjoy it

[00:41:54] And then I do

[00:41:55] Yeah, yeah

[00:41:56] I feel like this season I've come in much more prepared for those characters

[00:42:01] And so much more quickly have become fond of them

[00:42:05] Yeah, and I'm the same way

[00:42:07] I felt the same way before you even said it

[00:42:09] Okay, so Junho and the importance of family and organ harvesting somehow all together

[00:42:18] In one point

[00:42:19] So, I'm glad to see Junho and Gi-hun interacting

[00:42:23] I'm glad they didn't keep them apart again

[00:42:25] I really liked when Gi-hun said

[00:42:28] I remember you now

[00:42:30] And we met once and Junho said we met twice

[00:42:33] Yeah

[00:42:34] And talked about it

[00:42:34] I was like, they did? I don't remember that

[00:42:36] Same, I didn't remember it either

[00:42:41] Yeah, that was really cool

[00:42:44] Gi-hun asks about the front man

[00:42:47] And Junho continues not to reveal that it's his brother

[00:42:50] And wants to know if Junho's

[00:42:52] I mean if Gi-hun's planning on killing him

[00:42:54] So he's protecting his brother

[00:42:57] How do we feel about that?

[00:42:58] Would we protect our own brothers in this kind of situation?

[00:43:02] I don't know, but that is my fucked up moment of the week

[00:43:06] Oh, I forgot to ask, yeah, sorry

[00:43:07] Before he sent

[00:43:09] I understand that he didn't reveal it right then

[00:43:12] He didn't know him very well yet

[00:43:14] He was still sitting in the shower sort of like

[00:43:17] Handcuffed

[00:43:18] When he didn't reveal to Gi-hun

[00:43:21] Who the front man was

[00:43:22] That it was his brother

[00:43:24] But as the plan progressed

[00:43:27] And he literally sends Gi-hun in

[00:43:29] To get his brother

[00:43:31] I feel like at that point it was kind of fucked up

[00:43:33] Not to give him this additional

[00:43:35] Pretty important information

[00:43:36] Like, hey, this is my brother

[00:43:39] Hey, he actually was a past winner of the games

[00:43:42] Like that's important information in these conversations

[00:43:45] That Gi-hun is having with him

[00:43:47] In understanding who's kind of his opponent

[00:43:50] And I understand Junho

[00:43:52] Like, I understand the complicated guilt and anger and love

[00:43:57] That he seems to have for his brother

[00:43:59] But that was to me kind of fucked up

[00:44:02] That he didn't eventually reveal it before Gi-hun went in

[00:44:05] To confront him

[00:44:07] And I think

[00:44:08] I mean, I think it's a good story point though

[00:44:10] Yeah

[00:44:10] You know?

[00:44:11] Yeah

[00:44:11] Because you're sort of like

[00:44:12] Oh, is that gonna come back to bite him in the ass somehow?

[00:44:15] And also, I agree with you

[00:44:17] It's fucked up

[00:44:18] But I also

[00:44:19] I mean, like I was thinking about my own brother

[00:44:22] Would I be ratting him out?

[00:44:24] You know?

[00:44:26] Probably because it's so serious

[00:44:28] And you know, he can't talk to him about it first

[00:44:31] Because he doesn't know how to get a hold of him

[00:44:35] So, I don't know

[00:44:36] It's just a tough situation

[00:44:37] But I think the squid game is so messed up

[00:44:41] That you'd have to

[00:44:42] You know?

[00:44:43] Yeah

[00:44:43] And I don't judge Jun-ho like terribly harshly

[00:44:46] Sorry Jeremy

[00:44:47] By the way, that's my brother

[00:44:50] I think that is totally complicated

[00:44:53] And like also understand people that wouldn't necessarily give up their family member

[00:44:59] But if he's decided to join Gi-hun in this effort

[00:45:03] I feel like it was just such a critical piece of information

[00:45:07] Before he went in to face him

[00:45:09] I don't know

[00:45:10] My fucked up moment of the week is when the guy

[00:45:14] Walked into the room without his pig mask on

[00:45:16] And made the little girl cry

[00:45:19] Oh, that was sad

[00:45:21] Which I can totally understand being freaked out by that

[00:45:23] Why does the piggy not have a head and there's a person in there?

[00:45:29] So back to Jun-ho

[00:45:32] He's at home with his mom

[00:45:34] So we learned about their situation that In-ho is her stepson

[00:45:38] Which means that he's either Jun-ho's stepbrother or half-brother, I guess

[00:45:43] Oh yeah, I didn't even realize it could still be his half-brother

[00:45:46] Yeah, they could have the same dad

[00:45:49] Right? I think so

[00:45:51] Yeah

[00:45:52] That seems sort of significant

[00:45:53] And that In-ho saved Jun-ho's life by giving him a kidney

[00:45:57] Did we know that before?

[00:45:58] Yeah, I don't think so

[00:45:59] Okay, so we're learning more about In-ho's motivation for why

[00:46:04] In-ho's wife got sick

[00:46:06] And his stepmom couldn't do anything

[00:46:09] And his wife died

[00:46:10] And then if In-ho hadn't give Jun-ho his kidney

[00:46:14] He could have sold it to get money for his wife's treatment

[00:46:17] So his mom, their mom thinks In-ho cut off contact

[00:46:20] Because he's mad at her for not helping or whatever

[00:46:24] So I'm trying to think

[00:46:26] How could this shed light on In-ho's motivation

[00:46:29] That because a loved one dying

[00:46:32] Is often part of super villain and superhero origins

[00:46:37] And so for In-ho

[00:46:40] Scarcity of resources led to his wife's death

[00:46:43] And maybe I think with him

[00:46:46] Maybe he thinks because he won the squid game

[00:46:48] He's special and only special people deserve to be rich and powerful

[00:46:51] And have good lives

[00:46:53] And that maybe he did feel betrayed by his stepmother

[00:46:56] And so he thinks his family let him down

[00:46:59] And so family connections aren't what's important

[00:47:03] And so now he's more into individualism

[00:47:05] And social Darwinism

[00:47:07] And survival of the fittest

[00:47:09] Now maybe there's this theme of family this season

[00:47:14] We see a lot with family

[00:47:18] Dachy Gai killed his father

[00:47:21] Jun-ho is protecting his brother

[00:47:24] Gi-hun is looking after the relatives of Sang-woo and Se-byeok

[00:47:29] Who died in the game

[00:47:30] Noelle trying to find her daughter

[00:47:32] Gi-hun calling his daughter

[00:47:35] Not being able to talk

[00:47:35] Bring himself to talk to her

[00:47:37] That was a touching scene

[00:47:38] But she's clearly important to him

[00:47:41] And I think all this family stuff

[00:47:44] Is at least in part related to that countries

[00:47:46] Where there's less of a social safety net

[00:47:48] Family members have to rely on each other more

[00:47:50] And take care of each other

[00:47:51] They have to

[00:47:53] Or that is their safety net

[00:47:55] And I think that's probably

[00:47:57] I don't know for sure I should have looked it up

[00:47:59] But maybe that's the importance of family

[00:48:01] Is reflected in how the surnames come first

[00:48:05] You know, Sang-gi-hun

[00:48:07] Sang is Gi-hun's family name

[00:48:10] So I just feel like we're going to get more on

[00:48:14] All that stuff with about family

[00:48:17] And more about In-ho

[00:48:21] Yeah

[00:48:21] What he took from everything that happened

[00:48:24] With his kidney and his wife dying

[00:48:25] And everything like that

[00:48:27] I don't know if he thinks he's special

[00:48:29] Because he really pushed Gi-hun on that point

[00:48:32] Like you're not special

[00:48:33] Like you think because you won the game you're special

[00:48:36] Almost wondered

[00:48:37] That's true

[00:48:37] And I feel like I just need more to understand his motivations

[00:48:41] Because I feel like what you're saying

[00:48:44] A lot of what you said makes sense

[00:48:45] And also like it could just be like almost like

[00:48:48] What is it like nihilism where you just like don't

[00:48:51] Like you lost something that was the most important to you

[00:48:54] You've lost all faith in humanity

[00:48:55] Just want to kind of see the world burn

[00:48:57] And you detest the VIPs and the players

[00:49:02] And probably yourself

[00:49:04] And so like I don't know

[00:49:07] I just remember last season he made a big deal out of

[00:49:11] Everyone has the same opportunity here

[00:49:14] Yeah

[00:49:14] So he seemed to have some kind of drive

[00:49:19] That had something to do with that

[00:49:21] And I'm trying to figure out how that relates

[00:49:23] To all this you know

[00:49:24] Maybe we don't quite have enough information yet

[00:49:26] Or maybe between the two of us

[00:49:29] We just can't figure it out

[00:49:32] It does kind of make me want to go back

[00:49:34] To season one and just see the parts where we do hear him speak

[00:49:37] Sort of like

[00:49:39] Because at that point in time

[00:49:40] He was just a faceless, nameless person

[00:49:43] I didn't really care about their motivations

[00:49:45] Yeah

[00:49:46] And now like I wonder if some of those things

[00:49:49] Would hold more weight or give more insight into how he thinks

[00:49:53] But yeah, I do now remember how much like the fairness

[00:49:58] Right

[00:49:59] Whatever his reality of fairness is

[00:50:02] Was very important to him

[00:50:04] And he thinks the losers are trash

[00:50:06] I guess that's where I arrived at

[00:50:07] Maybe he thinks that he

[00:50:09] Yeah, no

[00:50:09] And therefore Gi-hun are special

[00:50:11] But then you pointed out that he said

[00:50:13] You think you're special

[00:50:13] So now I'm like, oh yeah, I don't know

[00:50:15] If he hadn't said that

[00:50:18] What you said I think makes the most sense to me

[00:50:20] Based on the way he's talking about

[00:50:22] So I don't know

[00:50:23] I'm curious

[00:50:24] I'm also really curious

[00:50:25] Like Jun-ho's motivations

[00:50:28] Is it to rescue In-ho?

[00:50:31] Is it to kill In-ho?

[00:50:35] Like is it to fake to talk to him and then decide

[00:50:38] I feel like that's what it is

[00:50:40] But I don't know

[00:50:41] Maybe he wants to find out information

[00:50:45] Before anything

[00:50:46] Before the guy gets killed or something

[00:50:48] He had like in that conversation with his mother

[00:50:51] He had guilt

[00:50:53] He had anger

[00:50:55] But there was also love

[00:50:57] And some understanding too

[00:50:59] That he sort of I feel like cycled through

[00:51:01] In talking about In-ho throughout the conversation

[00:51:06] How realistic

[00:51:07] Like could In-ho have really sold his kidney that easily to save his wife?

[00:51:14] Like is that

[00:51:15] Is the like

[00:51:16] Organ trade that

[00:51:18] Easily accessible there?

[00:51:20] That that was a true

[00:51:22] I know we've mentioned it multiple times last season

[00:51:25] Do you know?

[00:51:26] Yeah, that was the second part of

[00:51:29] I looked it up

[00:51:30] I mean, chat GBT anyway

[00:51:32] Which I think is getting a lot better lately

[00:51:34] And it's always been pretty good

[00:51:35] But anyway

[00:51:36] So I wondered if In-ho having sold his kidney is related to this organ harvesting on squid game isle that we saw last time

[00:51:45] And is it just common?

[00:51:47] Is it a common thing to sell organs for money?

[00:51:50] And so chat GBT says the illegal organ trade exists in many parts of the world, particularly in regions with significant socioeconomic disparities

[00:51:58] People in desperate financial situations may sell their organs while wealthier individuals may seek illicit transplants to bypass long wait lists

[00:52:06] Kidneys are the most commonly traded organs because humans can survive with one functioning kidney

[00:52:12] Liver segments, corneas and even bone marrow have also been illicitly traded

[00:52:16] Countries with weak regulatory frameworks or high poverty levels such as parts of South Asia, Southeast Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe are often implicated in the black market organ trade

[00:52:28] It says South Korea has a robust healthcare system and stringent laws against illegal organ trafficking

[00:52:34] The country does not have a reputation for being a hub of organ trafficking

[00:52:38] However, like many countries, South Korea faces a shortage of legally available organs for transplantation which can lead to long waiting times

[00:52:47] South Korea has traditionally low organ donation rates because of cultural and religious beliefs about preserving the body after death

[00:52:54] Which may indirectly contribute to the demand for illegal organs

[00:52:59] And it says the organ trafficking subplot in squid game is an exaggerated dramatization while it reflects a real issue

[00:53:06] It's not specific to South Korea and is presented in the show for shock value and I would argue social commentary rather than as a reflection of widespread practices in the country

[00:53:16] So, you know, it happens

[00:53:19] It's nice to know like that it's more of a

[00:53:22] But more so like a plot line for the show versus like a drastic problem in South Korea

[00:53:28] Like I think it's important to point that out just because like

[00:53:31] Yeah, I don't know social like assumptions about

[00:53:35] Yeah, different places

[00:53:36] But there is a trade there is a black market trade

[00:53:39] Yeah, but it does happen

[00:53:39] Yeah, yeah

[00:53:42] All right. What do you got next?

[00:53:45] Anything else?

[00:53:45] I think we've hit most things I have on my

[00:53:49] Major points and I just have a couple notes

[00:53:52] Okay. Yeah, I had a couple more

[00:53:54] One the Seoul which is the capital of Korea Seoul land amusement park

[00:54:01] I thought it was kind of

[00:54:03] Interesting because squid game is usually the juxtaposition of the childlike with the horrific and now we get just the childlike in context

[00:54:12] And actual children and

[00:54:17] Still there's some parallels

[00:54:20] It's these less fortunate people who I just love you see these workers acting all cutesy and then they go into their room and they take off their mask and they're all sweaty

[00:54:33] They're like, you know

[00:54:36] Cussing and just like people that are like I hate my job, you know

[00:54:40] And we only knew that one of them had to sleep out in the parking lot. So it seemed like they're underpaid and

[00:54:48] It reminded me when I was in marching band in high school and we got to march at Disneyland

[00:54:54] Yeah, we did that too

[00:54:55] And then we marched backstage or in the back lots and it was like that you the immersion was completely broken

[00:55:02] They were like broken rides and just none of the detail and everything and we all cried. No, I'm just kidding

[00:55:09] But

[00:55:12] That is like sad to see that piece

[00:55:14] Yeah, it was kind of sad

[00:55:15] And then on second watch knowing that no is a is a squid game worker. I wondered if the masks also echoed the masks of the squid game workers

[00:55:27] The differences in squid game the workers aren't aren't entertainers like at the amusement park

[00:55:33] But in both their workers and they're there to play roles. So who they are underneath the masks doesn't matter, you know

[00:55:40] And they they have to move and act in a certain way at the amusement park

[00:55:44] They have to act all cutesy and it's good game. They're all in unison and efficient and marching and they have to like take

[00:55:51] lethal action immediately. I mean they just feel like

[00:55:55] Any one of them could be replaced with any other one like their hand or something

[00:55:59] So I thought it was interesting that she got a job at this place

[00:56:04] Where she has to wear another mask but also where she has to see children all the time given that she

[00:56:09] Is missing her little daughter seems like that would be torture

[00:56:13] I mean it probably is that's probably why she's so tortured. It's like that's just compounding it. Yeah

[00:56:19] I had a whole point on

[00:56:21] Gi-hun's whole operation. Let me see if

[00:56:25] I did too, but I feel like that we touched on

[00:56:28] Yeah

[00:56:29] Well, let me go through a couple so

[00:56:32] Yeah, I'll just pull point that we didn't talk about so he takes

[00:56:36] So he takes

[00:56:36] Jun-ho and Choi into this room where there's a

[00:56:39] his big neatly stacked pile of cash and

[00:56:43] I think that's

[00:56:44] all the money I don't know for sure

[00:56:46] but it looks like there's like just so we can get an idea of how much he spent right

[00:56:50] maybe five or ten percent or something like that

[00:56:53] Last time I forgot to say this but I thought maybe they were going down this path where he was going to blow all the money looking for the screen game people

[00:57:00] Which would be really tragic and it reminds me how a lot of lottery winners apparently lose all their money

[00:57:05] Yeah, spend it all but it doesn't seem like that because he's only spent a small part of it

[00:57:10] I am really glad they showed us that because I sort of had that feeling too as he was handing bags of money off to people

[00:57:17] Like is he gonna have any left? And so then just seeing like for two years he's

[00:57:22] really poured money into this and it's just this tiny little corner of his whole winnings was like a nice

[00:57:28] relief

[00:57:29] to me

[00:57:31] I couldn't also help but think of all the money falling into the glass piggy bank

[00:57:36] you know and this isn't that exact money I don't think because

[00:57:40] when he won last season it just showed him get it all in his

[00:57:44] Bank account at the ATM right?

[00:57:46] Right, right so he must have withdrawn it which seems really dumb to withdraw it have it in cash in a single place and then just bring these two guys that you don't know that well and say you can have as much of this as you want

[00:57:58] What?

[00:58:00] I mean it's stuff like that throughout the so like those little things that are just like yeah

[00:58:05] I hate this this is dumb and I'm gonna overlook it

[00:58:09] It's also kind of visually cool

[00:58:10] Yeah, like don't think about it too hard just move forward

[00:58:14] It seems like I mean it does fit with his character a little bit though because he can be careless

[00:58:19] Absolutely

[00:58:20] Something David said last episode was like

[00:58:25] Ki-hoon is quite smart and I was like

[00:58:28] Not always

[00:58:29] He does some pretty bad decisions

[00:58:32] Yeah

[00:58:32] Like he can be and he has some like

[00:58:35] But he's also very

[00:58:38] He's the type of guy that I can believe would have the stack of money in one room in one place

[00:58:43] He's a bit chaotic. I mean he won the squid game so he's got something

[00:58:47] He did like he's not complete idiot but

[00:58:51] Um, the dentist pulls his tooth out inserts a tracker

[00:58:56] I thought that's very squid game meets James Bond

[00:58:59] If it was James Bond maybe it would be a little crown and then give him some novocaine

[00:59:03] But it's good so they just have to rip the whole damn tooth out

[00:59:08] I guess is all I had about that stuff

[00:59:11] And then just speculating on his plans which we already talked about a little bit

[00:59:17] But I wonder if he has something definitive in mind

[00:59:22] And um, you know, he's

[00:59:26] Jun-ho says

[00:59:27] Are you gonna kill the front man?

[00:59:29] Gi-hoon says killing one person isn't gonna put an end to any of this

[00:59:33] Um, O-L-Nam said he only decided to create the game to please his clients

[00:59:37] So I think he really the vips are his target

[00:59:42] I don't know if he wants to kill them or

[00:59:45] Um, try to show them that people can be compassionate which would be really corny and I don't think it would be very squid game

[00:59:51] But it seems like if it was just pure vengeance. I don't see it being that simple either

[00:59:56] I do think as I said last week that before this is all over we will see some of these or all these guys forced to play

[01:00:05] A squid game like thing

[01:00:06] Yeah, I mean it'd be very hunger games of them

[01:00:10] I

[01:00:12] Don't know. I mean, I don't think there's a shortage of vips

[01:00:16] Like I think you could go in and kill them and just as much as there's never a never-ending

[01:00:23] Supply of players. I think there's always going to be someone to step up and take the vip places too

[01:00:30] And so that that's where i'm just like what is the plan?

[01:00:33] And is that was sort of my struggle of like you who and

[01:00:38] I go back to what you what you guys said last week that the vips aren't even

[01:00:43] Bothered enough by the contestants to be angry and call them trash. They just don't care. They're just

[01:00:50] The horses they're racing as he says and

[01:00:53] So I don't think there's a reality where you convince those people

[01:00:59] Like I don't think they care if people can change that's that they don't need to be shown that they don't care

[01:01:04] I don't think it's going to change them. I think maybe the front man

[01:01:08] Because of what we know about who he actually is and where he came from might have that potential

[01:01:14] But he's not the important

[01:01:17] He's obviously replaceable. It's not been that long since he won the games. There was a front man before him

[01:01:22] You know, yeah, probably and so well

[01:01:25] I just am having a hard time

[01:01:27] I mean what the what what plan B is which I also giggled that it was just simply plan B

[01:01:34] Like when they I don't know for sure. There's

[01:01:38] I think you're probably right. There's enough customers

[01:01:44] That they could keep it going

[01:01:47] One thing is they didn't really talk they talked about oh and i'm dying

[01:01:51] But they didn't like junho and gi-hun didn't say I wonder who runs the game now

[01:01:56] Do they even care about that? Do they think the front man runs it now?

[01:02:00] Because we don't really know for sure who if someone I feel like that's the assumption he's making is that the front man runs it

[01:02:06] Like from some of the stuff he said, but that's I don't know that like I don't think we do know that I feel like that's gi-hun's assumption

[01:02:13] But they're more focused on caring about the vips. Yeah, and I

[01:02:18] I I don't know I have the feeling that gi-hun thinks if I wipe out all these guys that will help

[01:02:26] Get rid of these games, but

[01:02:29] Maybe that's just what he thinks and he's being naive. I guess we'll find out

[01:02:33] Yeah, maybe that'll be the ending that like you think you end it all and then it just

[01:02:37] We actually find out it's happening in every country and you can't really stop the squid games

[01:02:43] Right, so why not join it? No, i'm just kidding

[01:02:47] So what do you got for notes?

[01:02:50] I actually like we just touched on a few of them and then my only other thing was I was just wondering

[01:02:56] Where we think season two is gonna end and we know it's planned to end with season three, right?

[01:03:02] Yeah, I think that's what we've read. Yeah, so do you think season two is gonna be a cliffhanger?

[01:03:08] Like we're already two episodes in and the games haven't started

[01:03:11] I have a hard time seeing this wrap with like the end of another set of games and and like something starting up like I really think we're gonna get halfway into this and sort of

[01:03:22] More of a cliffhanger than season one was so I was just curious where you think

[01:03:28] We're gonna get to in this season and

[01:03:31] What I hope is that it feels like a three-act play and like I said the first season now feels like

[01:03:38] This victim who becomes empowered at the end and then season two is his quest for some kind of vengeance or

[01:03:47] Holding them accountable, but then I don't know what the third act for that would be

[01:03:52] Yeah, do we keep gi-hun or who's the like?

[01:03:56] Yeah, I mean could the through line stop being gi-hun and actually be like

[01:04:02] The front man or something like does the does gi-hun die at the end of this and it changes the front man's heart or jun-ho and gi-hun somehow

[01:04:12] Change him and so then season three is him

[01:04:15] Trying to end it like I don't know. I'm just curious where we get to

[01:04:18] I would be really shocked at that because I think you know, this is netflix's most popular show and I

[01:04:25] Wouldn't think they would be brave enough to change something core to it like gi-hun, you know?

[01:04:31] Mm-hmm

[01:04:31] But I don't know

[01:04:32] We'll see

[01:04:34] What do you have for notes?

[01:04:35] Only one note is that I think that

[01:04:39] The squid game people

[01:04:41] You know the people running at the vips

[01:04:44] You'd think they might just consider

[01:04:46] You're not actually giving the winner any money at the end just stringing everyone along with a lie that they were going to get the money

[01:04:53] And then at the end just kill anyone who's left because they don't seem to have any regard for human life

[01:04:59] They're doing this for entertainment value. So they would get that exact entertainment value, but a not have to pay as much

[01:05:06] Or like not nearly as much and be not have to worry about any newly empowered winner causing trouble or exposing them like

[01:05:15] G-hun is now, you know, I think that's the biggest thing is just the risk of letting these people go back out

[01:05:21] Yeah, with power now

[01:05:23] Yeah, I think that I think you guys said this last week, but it's just sort of amazing that these have been going on since the 80s and this is the first time someone's made a big enough like

[01:05:35] Well, I mean I guess we don't know for sure, but it seems like this is the first time anyone's really trying to do what gi-hun is doing

[01:05:42] I guess we don't really know that though

[01:05:44] We don't know. I mean I wouldn't have that much trouble believing that anyone who came out of there with

[01:05:52] Hundreds of million dollars or whatever it is would just be like. All right. I guess i'm good

[01:05:59] Yeah, you know, I mean I guess you also carry a lot of shame that you killed a lot of people to get that money

[01:06:05] And so inherently telling your story also exposes you as someone who was willing to participate in

[01:06:12] That's right. I mean gi-hun calls it blood money this episode and so there is some personal

[01:06:18] Pressure to not like reveal it's not the same as winning the lottery, right?

[01:06:22] Yeah, you don't have to kill all the other people that played the lottery to win so

[01:06:27] True. Yeah, maybe the real the better question is why is gi-hun telling?

[01:06:33] Not why didn't everyone else?

[01:06:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah

[01:06:37] Or why is gi-hun, you know exposing himself and going after them?

[01:07:12] Okay, we're back for a couple of messages and a voice message from sam so you want to go first?

[01:07:20] Yeah, becky anderson writes that tooth scene yikes

[01:07:25] The ending surprised me thought she was a player me too

[01:07:29] I really liked the first two episodes. I was concerned how they would make this work, but so far they've done a great job

[01:07:35] Only two episodes in and i'm hooked same becky. I was also very worried and i'm pleasantly surprised. Yeah, we'll see what happens with number three

[01:07:44] Yeah, I got my fingers crossed

[01:07:46] Catherine peters says most of episode two felt like part of an action movie until the last 15 minutes

[01:07:52] Then we got we get that intensity and suspense that I associate with squid game i'm watching along with the podcast and i'm looking forward to getting to the actual competition

[01:08:00] Me too

[01:08:01] Yeah, if it's not next week i'm gonna be disappointed. Honestly

[01:08:05] I have to say mad respect to people that watch slowly along with the podcast

[01:08:10] Yeah, I'm such a binge watcher that it is like the hardest like i've watched through the walking dead like three times just since you guys have done the rewatch

[01:08:18] I just can't stop like that's how bad. I am a show that I rewatch all the time. So

[01:08:23] um

[01:08:24] Kudos katherine i'm impressed. Yeah, i'm actually kind of flattered. I hope you guys enjoy that

[01:08:30] All right, and then we got a call from sam

[01:08:33] Hi, jason daphne and david

[01:08:37] Oof

[01:08:38] Feel a little bit like june

[01:08:40] We signed up for a round two the squid game

[01:08:45] Here we go again

[01:08:48] I do not envy the squid game creator hwang dong hyuk

[01:08:53] I just

[01:08:55] I get it when he said like at the very very beginning when squid game first came out the first season

[01:09:01] He said that he was not gonna make any sequels

[01:09:04] This was always meant to be a self-contained story

[01:09:09] And that's how he spent years painstakingly writing it editing setting everything up

[01:09:15] And you can watch it and yeah, I mean we all have some questions, but that was kind of the point

[01:09:21] That it was a self-contained story

[01:09:23] You have a little bit of hope at the end. It's bleak, but it's there

[01:09:26] That june was gonna stop the squid game

[01:09:30] It was always meant to stop there the story

[01:09:32] And netflix gave him a buttload of money and it you know obviously became international phenomenon

[01:09:40] And then he was probably i'm guessing like okay I can hire the same crew

[01:09:44] This is important stuff to talk about and

[01:09:48] You know we'll do season two

[01:09:50] And we're sort of seeing the growing pains at least for me

[01:09:53] That this was never meant to continue on

[01:09:55] It's a little bit of the stuttering as it's starting up again

[01:09:58] Because he has to do something that I don't envy

[01:10:02] Match the hype of season one

[01:10:04] Which I mean nothing's gonna add up to season one

[01:10:07] At least in my brain

[01:10:08] I love to be proven wrong

[01:10:09] I think season one of squid game was a unique phenomenon

[01:10:14] For just what it was

[01:10:16] I mean it was so special and so

[01:10:19] Different and so shocking

[01:10:20] And it came like on the tail end of a pandemic

[01:10:24] That changed all of our lives

[01:10:25] You know, like in one way or another

[01:10:29] And you know we just sort of see that

[01:10:31] And now this is like I'm glad they continued the story

[01:10:34] I'm interested

[01:10:34] I think that they're trying to get to us in a different way

[01:10:37] And we saw that in episode one

[01:10:39] Which I agree with you

[01:10:40] There's some exposition in there that was not needed

[01:10:43] It was a little slow

[01:10:45] And you know they're probably trying to catch everyone up

[01:10:47] And we're seeing the violence and the trauma and the aftermath

[01:10:52] This isn't adrenaline fueled

[01:10:54] You know what are we gonna do?

[01:10:56] How are we gonna survive?

[01:10:58] It's the slow parts that come if you survive

[01:11:01] Right?

[01:11:02] Like yeah we're out of the adrenaline

[01:11:04] You survive

[01:11:05] And you have survivor's guilt toward Jihoon

[01:11:09] It's slower

[01:11:10] It's quiet

[01:11:10] It's miserable

[01:11:11] You're trying to make sense of the world

[01:11:13] And Jihoon is so obsessed with finding these guys

[01:11:18] To do what?

[01:11:19] Like I know he wants to stop the games

[01:11:21] I think all of us would prefer the games to stop

[01:11:25] It's a well-funded, well-organized system

[01:11:28] And how's he gonna do that?

[01:11:30] I guess he's gonna try from the inside

[01:11:32] Here's hoping, I don't know, we're gonna season three

[01:11:34] So I'm guessing not

[01:11:36] And you know we're seeing that that might not be realistic

[01:11:40] I'm with you Daphne, I am very worried about Jihoon

[01:11:42] Because yeah that's not gonna make him feel better

[01:11:47] I mean he'll feel a little bit better that new people aren't getting victimized in this

[01:11:51] But capitalism still exists

[01:11:53] Desperate people are still gonna be taken advantage of

[01:11:55] And most importantly for poor Jihoon

[01:11:57] It's not gonna make your memories go away

[01:11:59] Like I really do think the Jihoon from first season

[01:12:03] He died in the games, metaphorically

[01:12:06] Like that naive, hopeful, believing in the best

[01:12:10] Like he saw what people do to each other when they're desperate

[01:12:13] That changes you as a person

[01:12:15] We're seeing him

[01:12:17] Like you know we're seeing him try to make sense of that

[01:12:20] I sadly get why he's not going to see his daughter

[01:12:24] He's not that same person

[01:12:26] Like he won't even talk to her on the phone

[01:12:29] He's, he, I'm guessing he feels like if he can stop the games

[01:12:34] Then he can tell her

[01:12:37] That he's yes a different person

[01:12:39] But he's still a good person, I don't know

[01:12:41] Like I feel like he questions that about himself

[01:12:44] And we can see it from the outside looking in

[01:12:46] But this is what happens

[01:12:48] Like soldiers judge themselves afterwards

[01:12:51] And it's like yeah but you did what you had to do

[01:12:53] It doesn't matter to them

[01:12:55] Like and I get why

[01:12:57] It's just it's really tough

[01:12:59] And we're seeing sort of this trauma

[01:13:02] And this visceral experience in a different way

[01:13:04] Like for me episode one was so interesting

[01:13:07] Because I wasn't expecting it to make me uncomfortable the way it did

[01:13:11] Where like I'm with you guys

[01:13:13] That unhoused scene

[01:13:15] Like I, I felt physically ill

[01:13:18] And I think it's for the same reason that I felt physically ill

[01:13:23] When the Russian roulette was going on between those two characters

[01:13:26] That I'm with you guys

[01:13:27] I didn't care about the two characters either

[01:13:29] It was more the situation

[01:13:31] That the recruiter took away the humanity of those people

[01:13:36] And it made me really uncomfortable

[01:13:38] Because I saw humanity in them

[01:13:41] With the unhoused I saw it

[01:13:43] And then with the two people

[01:13:45] I think that's why they told us like they had a relationship before this

[01:13:48] You know, whatever

[01:13:48] It's like they're, they were non

[01:13:51] They had to be nonverbal because they were gagged

[01:13:53] And so it was just their physical reactions

[01:13:56] Of shaking and crying

[01:13:57] And I was just like, oh, like this is making me so ill

[01:14:01] So rather than this like random violence

[01:14:03] Of people we don't really know getting shot by a homicidal doll

[01:14:08] We're seeing this one-on-one violence

[01:14:11] And we're also seeing like behind the mask, so to speak

[01:14:14] What are the motivations of the villains?

[01:14:16] As we saw at the end of episode two

[01:14:18] Which I did not expect

[01:14:20] Maybe the villains aren't as one-dimensional as we think

[01:14:23] Yes, we're more comfortable with our recruiter

[01:14:25] Who is a pure psychopath

[01:14:29] Yeah

[01:14:30] Probably, you know, ripped the wings off of insects when he was a child

[01:14:33] You know, probably had his own trauma

[01:14:34] But you know, this is, he's completely psychopathic

[01:14:38] I get a feeling we're going to get more uncomfortable

[01:14:41] As things go on

[01:14:42] That things aren't going to be that easy to blame them as bad guys

[01:14:46] We're always going to have the VIPs who are pure evil

[01:14:49] But everyone who works for them, are they also victims too?

[01:14:53] So I'm interested to see and get more uncomfortable

[01:14:57] Also, I know this is going really long

[01:14:59] Please feel free to edit

[01:15:00] Episode two was, it made me laugh a lot

[01:15:03] We have the buddy cop team up that I didn't know I wanted

[01:15:06] Between June and the police officer

[01:15:09] And I'm here for it

[01:15:11] And I'm also really sad for June

[01:15:15] When he said welcome back

[01:15:16] Pelé Air 456

[01:15:18] I was like, oh no, this is going to suck

[01:15:21] So I cannot wait to hear the pod

[01:15:24] I'm so excited you guys are doing such an amazing job as usual

[01:15:27] Thanks again

[01:15:30] That was great

[01:15:31] Thank you Sam

[01:15:33] Gave me a lot to think about there

[01:15:37] Yeah, it really seemed like

[01:15:40] The writer

[01:15:41] I always forget his name

[01:15:42] He set it up for a sequel

[01:15:46] But he didn't

[01:15:47] He said

[01:15:48] I mean, because you know, Gi-hun is saying

[01:15:51] I'm going to go

[01:15:52] Or it seems like he's on his way to shut down the squid game

[01:15:55] And you wonder if June-ho was still alive

[01:15:57] And what was the deal with his brother and everything

[01:16:00] But I guess those were just intended to

[01:16:03] Get us thinking rather than to

[01:16:06] Say that there was going to be more

[01:16:07] But then there was just such a demand that they decided to do it

[01:16:11] Yeah

[01:16:12] But the part about being physically ill

[01:16:14] About the bread and lottery game

[01:16:16] And because yeah, it's just like

[01:16:19] There's this

[01:16:20] It's cruel

[01:16:20] Yeah, it's so cruel

[01:16:22] Yeah

[01:16:23] And it's treating people like trash

[01:16:25] And it's having zero compassion

[01:16:28] And I just think that it's kind of ironic that this show

[01:16:33] That started off with such a dark scene

[01:16:36] Of red light, green light

[01:16:38] People getting shot

[01:16:39] Really the message is

[01:16:41] We need to care about each other more

[01:16:42] You know what I mean?

[01:16:44] And that's really the point of all of this

[01:16:46] That we don't care about each other enough

[01:16:48] And honestly, I think you said the VIPs are pure evil

[01:16:52] I think any one of the characters in this has some trauma

[01:16:57] Or some that, you know, you could put any human being in their situation

[01:17:01] And there's a good chance they would do exactly the same thing

[01:17:04] And I think it's more of a systemic problem than a good and evil problem

[01:17:08] And that we need to change the system

[01:17:10] And then it won't enable these kind of outcomes

[01:17:13] Rather than just point at certain people and say

[01:17:16] You're the problem, you know?

[01:17:18] But they are the problem because they won't let the system change

[01:17:21] Because it would take away their power

[01:17:22] But really it's the system that enabled this in the first place

[01:17:26] But they're still humans, they're not monsters

[01:17:28] Yeah

[01:17:28] And I think that's the important piece

[01:17:30] Like to remember, I think there's a lot of things happening right now

[01:17:34] Where it's very easy to forget that

[01:17:36] Yeah

[01:17:37] You know?

[01:17:39] Everyone

[01:17:39] Yeah

[01:17:40] Yeah, and I think we're no better than the people that we're putting the finger at

[01:17:46] If we're also just putting them into one box

[01:17:49] And not also trying to see their humanity as hard as it can be

[01:17:53] Absolutely

[01:17:54] Totally agree with that

[01:17:55] I think it's important

[01:17:56] I mean, I think about all that kind of thing a lot

[01:17:59] And I think, is there such a thing as pure evil?

[01:18:01] And I do think there is

[01:18:02] And I think there's some people who are just born evil

[01:18:05] But I think that's the exception

[01:18:08] And I think more often than not

[01:18:10] It's about environment and context

[01:18:14] That can bring these bad behaviors about

[01:18:17] And trauma and all these kinds of things like that

[01:18:20] And that if we just had a better system

[01:18:23] And we learned how to, I don't know

[01:18:26] Connect with people

[01:18:27] Then we'd all be better off

[01:18:30] For sure

[01:18:31] It's nice that we have this like super positive message from such a dark show though

[01:18:36] Like you said

[01:18:37] I think so, yeah

[01:18:38] You know, like

[01:18:39] And I think for this season to slap

[01:18:43] I think that's what they have to dig into

[01:18:46] Is that because they

[01:18:47] It's not going to be shocking anymore

[01:18:49] It can be tense

[01:18:51] They can do that

[01:18:53] But I think, I hope that they keep up sort of

[01:18:56] This piece of things strongly in this season and next

[01:18:59] Because we have lost

[01:19:03] Season one was the shock value, right?

[01:19:05] And on rewatch I feel like I saw so much deeper

[01:19:09] All of these themes

[01:19:10] But it was hard the first time

[01:19:11] Because I was so distracted by

[01:19:13] The shock

[01:19:14] And the loss and the blood and guts and everything

[01:19:17] But like, I think season two

[01:19:20] Now that we're all past that

[01:19:22] They have the chance to dig deeper into the themes

[01:19:25] And so hopefully they can do that in a way that still

[01:19:28] Captures everyone's attention

[01:19:30] I mean

[01:19:31] Yeah, me too

[01:19:32] I hope it does everyone

[01:19:33] And I think you and I would be really satisfied with that

[01:19:35] But I suspect that they probably do do that kind of thing this season

[01:19:39] Where they don't focus so much on the nature of the games

[01:19:43] And more just exploring what all the themes of what it brings up

[01:19:48] But like you said, you know

[01:19:51] I get a sense that people aren't as happy with this season

[01:19:55] And I wonder if that's why

[01:19:57] And I wonder if they would sort of quote unquote course correct

[01:20:01] And go back to traditional squid game savagery in season three

[01:20:05] That wouldn't be as good for you and me, you know?

[01:20:08] Yeah.

[01:20:08] Because people just want

[01:20:09] They're out for blood

[01:20:11] They want to see fucked up situations

[01:20:13] Which I do too

[01:20:14] I like that kind of stuff too

[01:20:15] But I want it to have a deeper meaning

[01:20:17] I do and I think like

[01:20:19] Episode one almost like bordered for me

[01:20:21] Like I've never seen the Saw movies

[01:20:23] I don't mind gore

[01:20:25] But I don't really like torture

[01:20:28] And that game almost got a little too like torture

[01:20:32] Like intimately torturous to me

[01:20:36] And I think the thing that saved it was the fact that he hesitated

[01:20:40] Probably because he cared about the other humans somewhat

[01:20:43] And like there was themes that we could talk about about that

[01:20:46] So that saved it for me that there was still like a point to it

[01:20:49] Yeah, absolutely

[01:20:50] And something that now is what's driving one of the characters in the show

[01:20:54] But like I don't want the shock value to be like this intimate torture either

[01:21:00] Like I hope that's not what they're going for

[01:21:03] Or since they've lost the shock value of like mass murder

[01:21:07] Like I don't want that

[01:21:08] Like so many things were torturous

[01:21:10] You know, knowing you're about to be pulled off a tug of war thing is torturous

[01:21:14] But it wasn't the same like close up

[01:21:16] Yeah

[01:21:17] Gun to their head

[01:21:18] Prolonged suffering

[01:21:19] It made me so uncomfortable

[01:21:22] Well, I mean I do think that this show is really good at making people uncomfortable

[01:21:29] Myself included

[01:21:30] And I am actually in this one case kind of thankful that I'm forced to watch it week by week

[01:21:37] Because of the podcast because

[01:21:38] Yeah

[01:21:39] Binging this show gets pretty intense

[01:21:41] Yeah, I think this is going to be great for me

[01:21:44] And I wouldn't be able to do it if I wasn't being forced to

[01:21:47] So I'm thankful for the podcast

[01:21:49] I don't have the self-restraint

[01:22:05] All right, that is our show

[01:22:07] Thanks so much for listening everybody

[01:22:08] Thanks, Veronica. That was great. I enjoyed that

[01:22:10] Yeah, thanks for having me on

[01:22:12] I'm excited to go through the rest of the season

[01:22:14] Next time is Squid Game Season 2 Episode 3001

[01:22:19] Which is such a great title

[01:22:21] Who's that?

[01:22:22] It's going to be Zombie Oilnam

[01:22:25] Wouldn't that be something?

[01:22:27] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it

[01:22:31] You can find all our contact information at podcastica.com

[01:22:35] And while you're there, be sure to check out our other shows

[01:22:38] Recently, Veronica, our friend Amelie and I

[01:22:41] Covered the first six episodes of Season 2 of this

[01:22:44] Apple TV Plus show Silo

[01:22:46] On the Cast of Us podcast

[01:22:49] And I think that's a really good show

[01:22:52] It's not exactly like Squid Game, but it's a dark, smart show

[01:22:58] Survivalist

[01:22:59] Yeah, yeah, it's got some ominousness to it and everything

[01:23:02] It's got some similarity to it

[01:23:04] The haves and the have-nots and stuff

[01:23:06] I think it's got a lot of cool parallels to Fallout

[01:23:10] But it's such a different feel of a show

[01:23:12] That it's sort of cool that both of those are coming out at similar times

[01:23:17] As TV shows that I definitely encourage people

[01:23:20] Especially now that we're in Season 2 of Silo

[01:23:22] It's great, check it out, it's fun

[01:23:24] I didn't get a chance to watch Episode 7 yet, have you?

[01:23:28] I haven't, I think I might actually do that tonight

[01:23:31] Yeah, I got it

[01:23:32] Big exciting New Year's Eve plans, I'm going to watch TV, but

[01:23:35] Right on

[01:23:36] Well, that's it, that is our show

[01:23:38] Thanks for listening

[01:23:40] Happy New Year

[01:23:40] Happy Halloween

[01:23:41] I am going to watch TV, and there's a video

[01:23:41] Who's going to watch TV, and then we'll watch TV

[01:23:41] Is that the video so far as TV

[01:23:41] We'll see you guys

[01:23:41] We'll see you guys

[01:23:41] You're going to watch TV

[01:23:43] It's gonna be the video