19: "O X" (Squid Game S2E6)

[00:00:00] A frog in throcks BIT20sty ct så ryks cervk

[00:00:39] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason.

[00:01:09] And I'm Jenny. Jenny, and this episode we're covering Squid Game Season 2, Episode 6-O-X. Ox. Welcome, Jenny. Glad to have you aboard for this episode. Hello, I'm very excited. Veronica is sick and you graciously agreed to fill in and I'm very grateful. I believe I'm the last person on the planet besides you who hasn't seen the finale of Squid Game. So that's why I'm here. I did write to a couple people, only two actually.

[00:01:39] And the first one had seen it and you hadn't, but you were my second choice. Oh, that's good. Better than third or fourth. Yeah, there would have been a whole chain. So anyway, can you tell me, you called in a few times, but I don't really know how you got into Squid Game. Did you like it from the start, your history with the whole thing? I didn't watch it the first time around when it was first out on Netflix.

[00:02:07] I just, I wasn't interested. I had other things I needed to see. I knew it was really gory. And I'd heard it was because my kid had talked about it. He was like in grade five and he was like, kids at school are watching this. And I was like, oh really? It doesn't sound great. And then we went to a, there's a thing that happens in Saskatoon called Folk Fest and different communities set up around the city.

[00:02:33] So you'd drive around and you'd take a bus around and you'd go to different like pavilions for different community groups. And there was, there was Korea, there was a little Korea station and they had people playing Dachi, like the game where you throw. And there was another one where you could like, they were selling the cookies. And I was like, I don't know. This is weird that they're embracing it. Like I, it was, but I got more intrigued, I guess, when I saw it. I was like, okay, the Korean people are embracing this.

[00:03:02] And it seems like everyone's really into it. But then you guys started podcasting about it. Or maybe I watched it so I could listen. I'd seen you did a podcast about it. So I listened to it. I watched it so I could listen to your podcast. So I don't know that I would have watched it without the commentary because it is so intense. And so, so when, so, so yeah, so that's how I got into it. But yeah, I was late coming to it. Like I listened, I watched and listened to your show like after the fact.

[00:03:29] I mean, yeah, like if it had just been about the gory thrills, I probably wouldn't have gotten into it if it didn't have some more depth and interest to it than that. You know, seems like you're kind of the same, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it is interesting that it's so freaking brutal. And yet my kids knew about it. My youngest one knew about it when he was like three years old, four years old. Yeah.

[00:03:56] And Mr. Beast on YouTube did a whole thing of it, you know, like a recreation of it, but not killing anyone. And so it seeped into the culture where even kids were learning about it who hadn't seen it, which made you think, wow, what the heck is going on here? But how have you liked this season or not so far? Because you haven't seen the finale and neither have I. I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to capitalize on something that's a shock. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:22] You know, I think it's great, but it's not the first season. But of course, that often happens where something is so surprising. And they had to make it different. I mean, I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said already, but I think it's my main issue is there's too many characters and it's really hard to focus on a story because now it's more of an overview.

[00:04:46] It's like we are the drone watching a lot of things as opposed to really drilling down and getting too. Also, I feel like too many people have survived too many times. Like the people we care about are surviving. Whereas in the first season, people we cared about died all the time. So what you're saying is you wish people you cared about would die.

[00:05:10] Well, from a narrative perspective and when you only have six episodes and they're supposed to be like a gravity, like too many. I believe that you on the Walking Dead podcast refer to it as plot armor. Yeah. And so there's a lot of like, like I'm not saying that, but I feel like either no one's going to die or like everyone's going to die in the next episode. I know.

[00:05:35] I mean, last week, I don't know if you listened, but Karen and David co-hosted and I think maybe it was your message or somebody's message saying what you're saying right now that it's hard to keep track because there's so many characters. Yeah. And they were like, they had already seen this episode because they weren't disciplined like us and they did watch ahead. And they were like, oh, well, don't worry. That's about to change. And then, yeah, a lot of people died, but only one character that we follow, young me, every single other one of them made it through. So it's still just as confusing.

[00:06:05] It's one less character, you know, to follow. Yeah. So anyway, that's kind of how I'm feeling is like it's not, it's almost not ramped up enough. Well, yeah, I mean, the thing about these shows and we talk about this on The Walking Dead too, like one of the things. That was great and also horrible about The Walking Dead is they would kill off main characters sometimes. And it felt like you felt like, oh, shit, anyone could go at any time.

[00:06:33] It made it feel like high stakes, you know? And that's also life. Like that's also like we can't make it to the end with everyone we love. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like. It makes you feel lower stakes. It feels lower stakes. And when you only have six episodes, anyway, I mean, yeah, again, nothing of this, none of this is new and it feels really terrible to say. I wish people would die. No, but I understand what you're saying. I was just teasing before, but I totally get it. And I agree.

[00:07:02] And yeah, it just feels like a lighter version of the show, which is, it's so weird. Because the fact that people have survived that we care about, plus all this goofiness I've been talking about, it's like, what are they doing? They're doing Squid Game Lite in a way. Yeah. Then again, this episode is pretty horrific watching all those people get shot. Oh, yeah. It was rough. Well, I mean, yeah, I feel pretty much the same as you. I still think it's good. It's an interesting show. I'm never bored.

[00:07:30] But yeah, it's not quite as good as the first season. But let's get into it. Why don't you read the plot summary? Would you like to? Okay. During Mingle, players struggle to fit their alliances into rooms, causing tension, betrayal, and the death of allies. In the final round, Young Bae witnesses Player 001 kill another player to secure a room.

[00:07:53] After the game, Gi-hoon and Player 001 argue over whether to persuade other players to vote to end the games and ultimately decide against it to avoid a physical fight. During the vote, several players, including Player 125, who has been subservient to Thanos and Nam-Gyu, change their votes to X. The deciding vote again falls to Player 001, resulting in a tie. The players are given a day before re-voting.

[00:08:17] In the bathroom, Thanos and Nam-Gyu pressure Player 125 named Park Min-Soo into changing his vote to O, but Myung-Gee and other players that voted X intervene to defend him. A fight ensues with Thanos strangling Min-Gee, who then retaliates by stabbing Thanos in the neck with a metal fork, killing him.

[00:08:43] Meanwhile, Jun-Ho's team locates a possible entrance on an island, only to discover it is a decoy rigged with explosives, killing one of the mercenaries. I was, I've been, you know, more of a defender of Thanos as a character, just not as a person. I think he's a shitty person, but as a character. Oh, he's a great character. But I, but I was surprised to find myself when I saw what happened.

[00:09:06] Because if they make you think he broke, Thanos broke the other guy's neck, but really the sound you heard was the sound of the other guy's fork going into Thanos' throat. And I was surprised to find myself going, yes, get that guy out of here. Yeah. That's how I felt about it. What about you? Yeah. I mean, he's a real bully. He's a real, he's a real bad guy. And that's like one of my points, which I'm sure it's probably also one of your points was his manipulation of Min-Soo.

[00:09:34] And just, he reminds me of so many guys, so many people, so many people out there who do this to people. And a lot of guys. I'll say that. Yeah. Yeah. But Mean Girls, you know, it wasn't written in a vacuum. Anyway, so people do this to people and it was really great to see him, you know, did he die? We don't know. Yeah, I guess we don't know. But it was nice to see somebody get retaliation against him. I would have liked it to be Min-Soo, but I don't think Min-Soo could kill.

[00:10:04] So maybe it's better that it isn't him. But anyway, yeah, I was happy to see something. Okay. I guess what I appreciated was a purposeful death as opposed to the random killing of people I don't know. Because up till now, everybody who's died has been a person I don't know, except for the one. Young me. She's a friend. Just her. And we didn't really even know her. We just knew she was nice and pretty shy. Yeah.

[00:10:33] But she's the only one who mattered. Yeah. And I thought that was a good story beat because they had shown those two building up a connection. And so it was sad. And then to see that it was Crypto Guy who had slipped in there in her place, it's like, oh, no. Anyway, so yeah, I think. Yeah, I think that the reason Thanos' death was important is because it actually mattered or his, you know, the potential death or whatever.

[00:11:02] It meant something, whereas the other deaths have just been really gory and haven't meant anything to us. And I think what they mean more is like, oh, shit, this could happen to anyone that we care about at any time soon, right? Or maybe not. I don't know. But you know what I mean? Just to make the danger feel real and present. And it's just disturbing to see, even if it's no one we know. But in general, what did you think of the episode?

[00:11:32] It was good. I liked it. I felt like it's weird how so much of the episode was spent in the – like, there's only two real scenes. Like, really two real places. They were in the game and then they were debating. There was a lot of discussion. It was a very, like, talky episode and then a big fight. But it was all – like, we didn't really get a lot of the – I mean, I guess, yeah, we saw a little bit of the other people.

[00:12:00] But I don't know. It actually – I surprised – it felt really short. Like, it was over and I thought, oh, like, I remember – I feel like it should be – yeah. But it moved along at a pretty good clip. But was anything really resolved or done? I don't know. I know because they have to vote again. Yeah. Another vote. And so I liked it quite a lot. I thought the game was great. I just love the dynamics of the game.

[00:12:30] And it's really interesting to have this game, Six Legs, where all the teams cooperate with each other or, you know, intra-team cooperation. And then you have this game where you could find yourself at odds with the people around you and have to quickly make decisions about who gets in and who doesn't. I have a quick question about the games. Are these all Korean children's games? Like, is there a game – there's probably no game where you have to run into a room.

[00:12:58] But there must be – it's sort of musical chairs-y. Yeah. Yeah. Well – Is there a game where people say, find groups of three and then you have to find a group of three? Like, I think that much. I don't think so. I think when they started this game at the end of the previous episode, someone said, oh, it kind of reminds me of something, which to me said, this isn't really a game that they played. It sort of reminds them of a game. You know what I mean?

[00:13:23] I think all the other games have been, but maybe this is the first one that isn't exactly – Like an invented game. Yeah. I think so. But it's very much – there's all the trappings of some childhood thing with the circus tent-like aesthetic. And it feels like a musical chairs derivative in a way. Yeah. So anyway, I loved the game. I thought that was just top-notch.

[00:13:49] Which – then the vote was good, but I kind of agree with David that they're doing – they're spending too much time voting. And I think they're trying to make the dynamics of each vote different to keep it fresh, but it does feel a bit samey each time. Yeah. That's the whole thing.

[00:14:19] All right. Fucked up moment of the week. Well, this may be controversial, but I thought the fucked up moment of the week for me was – I don't know her name, but the shaman, the water shaman? Yeah. Sonia. Sonia. Something like that. Her bow, her hair bow is so nicely tied. And I thought it was pretty fucked up that bow hasn't come untied. Like, okay, she's sleeping. She's running. She's pushing people out of the way.

[00:14:45] Like, there's just no way that her hair would still look so nice. In fact, all of them. I would extend my fucked up moment to be everyone. They should have greasy hair. They should have – they should not look as attractive as they do. Mm-hmm. And I was disappointed that there's so much else about it. Like, why is that the thing that bothers me? Why is that the fucked up thing for me? That's great. Nothing in this show is real. Nothing is realistic.

[00:15:15] Why does it bother me that her hair is still tightly tied on that ponytail? I mean, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But I think it's part of her character. She's got the lipstick and she's just tightly wound as well, you know? So there's a severity to her. And I think the hair fits with the character. But now I'm desperate – not desperately, but very much want to see that all fucked up next week. You know?

[00:15:42] Just get that undone and let her hair down and have it be all going all over the place, hopefully. Yeah. Like, she could be trying to retie it. But like, anyway. Under those circumstances, I just don't think it could look as crisp. Mine is when crypto dude Myung Gi acted like he wanted to get back together with his ex, Jun Hee, just so he could use her winnings to pay off his debts. I thought that was pretty fucked up. You don't think he really meant it?

[00:16:12] No. Not even one bit. I hoped maybe he did. I mean, he's sitting there talking about, you know, I've done some research and we can just pay off a few debts. And then because we're going to – if we vote to go home, we'll each have $300 million won. And then I'm going to look into other investments for us. And I'm like, even if he is serious, I would want no part of that. Sure. Dude. I think both things could be true.

[00:16:41] I think he could want to have her back, but at the same time also think he's going to save them by investing the money because that's what gamblers do. That's what addicts do, right? They could be true. And yeah, and maybe you're right. I mean, it seemed like, you know, that's why – because she stood up for him in the room when he came in. And so maybe you might think, okay, so he's actually realizing that maybe she's great and he wants to get back with her.

[00:17:09] Well, he also in the game tried to save her. Like, you know, he went into the room of two with her and he's the one who pushed – Yeah, sticking by her. But I – so I was thinking at the time that everyone hates him and so this – he's sort of clinging to the one person who he might be able to win back over so he just wouldn't be hated by everyone. I was also thinking that's why he's voting to go home even though he doesn't have enough money to pay off his debt.

[00:17:38] It's just too much for him to be in this arena where he's so hated. But no, I'm serious. I think you could be right. I don't have a strong opinion about it, but I do have an opinion and I think it's not true. I think he's just an opportunist. Oh, yeah. But I don't know. I think he – I think she's right to not agree to his plan. Good for her. Yeah. But she doesn't trust it at all. She thinks that he just wants her money and that's it. And you know what?

[00:18:07] She knows him more than I do. So we should really listen to her. And she's already been jilted too though. So she could be just gun shy. No pun intended. All right. Let's get into points. What do you got? Well, the one thing I found really interesting was – okay. So I don't know anybody's name. Gi-hun's friend. What's his name? Jung-bae. Jung-bae. Okay.

[00:18:35] So Gi-hun and – I'm going to call him 001, the front man just for the sake of – we all know who that is. Gi-hun and he have been really tight this whole time. They've been like pals. They've been talking. They've been – you know, 001 told his like story about his wife. Like they've really been – and Gi-hun cares so much for him. And it killed me.

[00:19:01] This was actually going to be my other fucked up moment of the week is he – when the front man was missing and Gi-hun was like, oh no, where is he? Like is he okay? Like in the game. He had this concern for him and it just killed me. I was like, no, this guy is not your friend. And don't expend energy trying to save him. Like he's just – it's not good. Don't trust him. And they've been partnering up.

[00:19:23] And so then when they had to go in a pair and you would expect that it would be Gi-hun and him together in a room because they've been partnering up for everything. But suddenly it was the front man and – what's his name? Jung-bae. It was them together. And you're like, what? Why them? And it was because – Do we know? I don't even remember. I don't know.

[00:19:49] But the reason they had to do that was because they could not have had – they needed to create – they needed to create – well, they had to have him, the front man, kill that guy. Yeah. And he could not have – to show his true colors and they could not have had him do that to Gi-hun. They couldn't let him show his hand that quickly. No. Because that's coming in the final episode. You'd think so.

[00:20:11] So they created this situation where the happy-go-lucky man who believes good things about people and somehow is the kindest, nicest Marine you'll ever meet. He has to carry – He has to carry this secret. He has to carry this heavy, horrible secret about this guy that everyone likes.

[00:20:36] And so if they had given that secret to a different character, I don't think the – that's where the tension of the episode came in for me. That's where it was really interesting. Yeah. That's what I want to see unfold because for him to carry that around and he's like telling people like, I don't know that this guy is good. But if it had Gi-hun be the witness, he would know what to do with that information. But this guy doesn't. And so I really thought that was a – that was fun. I like that.

[00:21:04] But also I'm pretty sure that means that happy-go-lucky friend is going to die. Yeah. We can hope. Because we want to get these people out of here. No. But I mean, yeah. So a couple things with that. Being Ho has been one of the most interesting things to me about this season for sure. Especially because last season he was just this sort of cipher, this serious person with the mask on.

[00:21:31] And didn't really have any personality that we could discern other than being a real stickler for wanting the games to be even for everybody or whatever. It just seems serious. Now here he's smiling a lot. He's affable. And he even says like – because he volunteered. I'll go try to find another person because Gi-hun's team already had enough. Yeah. And I'm like, why is he doing – what is he doing? What is going on with this guy?

[00:22:00] And then when he – as you said, Gi-hun was really worried about him. And then they met up and he's smiling and he's like said something like, oh, I have a really like likable personality. Oh, yeah. So I'm good at these games. And I was thinking, I bet that's what helped get him through the first one where he won. Yeah. You know? Well, I actually have a theory about that. I think he didn't find anybody else. Yeah, maybe not.

[00:22:27] I think he stood around and watched everyone else get shot because the soldiers knew he's not to be touched. So when they were like – because they didn't say who did you pair up with. They didn't say where did you go. Yeah. He just suddenly appeared miraculously and was like, everything's fine. So I was like, oh, he didn't even go. He just stood there. But even so, whether he did or not, I do think that he has an engaging personality. And I think it could help him in the games and probably didn't in the first game.

[00:22:56] But it makes me wonder how much of that is a total act and all strategic. And if it is all an act and all strategic, he's damn good at it. Yeah. And I mean, whoever they have playing this part, I don't know the actors' names. But that's what actors do. So he can play it real. Yeah. Because it looks to me like a lot of the reactions he's having are real, like when he's smacking himself in the face in the Six Legs Gang and saying, you're an idiot.

[00:23:24] Was that all just a show for his manipulations? Or was there something real in that? I still don't know. I think it was a manipulation. I don't think that was real. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. After, because I looked, oh, by the way, Karen said that he, she thought he threw his top with his off hand the first two times and then his real regular hand. And I looked at him, that was true. He did it with his off hand the first two times and then his whatever handedness he is the third time.

[00:23:52] So, yeah, I think you could be right that it's all just a manipulation. Now, one little caveat here. He's in this room like Jungbae, I think, is the one that threw. There were two guys in the room and I think Jungbae is the one that threw one of those guys out. And then the two of them, Jungbae and Inho, found themselves in the room with the other guy. And he's just poor guys, meekly saying we were here first. It's like, dude, you should have locked the door.

[00:24:17] But I'm thinking, yes, it is disturbing to see a guy kill another guy. On the other hand, you're in the squid game. And you guys, Jungbae voted to stay. This guy who got killed also voted to stay. So they're two people who have chosen to be there. They know what's up. They know that it's life or death. And they know that it's kill or be killed sometimes.

[00:24:44] And even Gi-hun last season, he helped pull six guys or whatever many off of the platform to their deaths. He lied about this old man who he didn't know was the leader of the games in order to get him killed so Gi-hun could survive. That's what happens in these games. It's not that much more disturbing than anything else.

[00:25:05] But I think the thing that was disturbing to Jungbae was not that he killed somebody, but it was the way he did it so coldly. He didn't do it and then express, oh my God, I had to do that. He didn't seem shaken. He did it and then didn't talk about it. And he knew how to snap a neck. I don't know how to snap a neck.

[00:25:28] Basically, I think what's happening is there's something behind this man's facade that he's not who he's presenting himself to be. He's something else. Somehow he knows how to do this and he was able to do this and he was willing to do this. And yeah, that's great because it meant that we're surviving. But it felt like old hat. I don't know. To me, that's why he's more disturbed by it.

[00:25:56] It's not the fact of him doing it. It's the way he did it and the look in his eyes when he did it. Yeah, I think you're right. I think that's the point of all this. I just think personally, I think it's a little bit of a flaw in the writing that that is what they were going for, what you're saying. And the second watch I watched him and he seemed impacted to me in Ho after he did it. He wasn't like, oh, that was no big deal. He had this intense look on his face still.

[00:26:25] He wasn't torn apart by it, but he seemed impacted. So I don't know. I'm wondering if the fact of Jun-Mai being in the Marines, he's going to reflect on other soldiers who've been able to kill like that or something. I don't know. That guy's seen some things. I just, I don't know. But he did try to talk himself out. Like he was about to tell Gi-Hoon a couple of times and then he decided not to.

[00:26:53] And he's like, I think he said something like, well, I guess it's just what this game drives us to. So I think he didn't want to tell because he doesn't trust him. He's like, if. He doesn't trust Gi-Hoon? Yeah. No, he doesn't trust in Ho. No, but I'm saying like Jung-Bei was about to tell Gi-Hoon there's something weird about him. Like something happened and they got interrupted. And then Gi-Hoon comes over. What were you going to say? Oh, no. Maybe it was. Yeah. It was Gi-Hoon. What were you going to say? And he goes, oh, no. Don't worry about it.

[00:27:21] So I think he's trying to tell himself this is just what people do in the games. But he's suspicious. There's doubt planted there. And that is the point of all of this. He's starting to realize something up with this guy. Well, the fact that he's keeping it a secret and he's not talking to Inho about it, I just feel like he knows. Yeah. He might either be like, it's not a big deal. Or he might be like, this is the biggest deal ever.

[00:27:48] Or I can't let anyone know that I know this because I can't tell it because he'll kill me if he finds out I'm talking about it. Because I'm going to let his cover. I'm going to blow his cover with that. He's a nice guy. There was a moment in there with Jungbae where I thought he was trying to just talk himself out of thinking it was a big deal. But I could be wrong. But that's what I got where he was just like, oh, maybe there was nothing wrong with that. Okay.

[00:28:18] I think it is the point that he's suspicious of Inho. And that's interesting. And you said that Gi-Hoon's going to find out next episode. But I hope you're right. I think you probably are right. But I think that, you know, the games won't conclude until season three. That's my sense of. I think that also bothers me about this is that I wanted a complete season. I don't like when shows like do. It's season three, but it's really just season two. Yeah. Right, right.

[00:28:47] Breaking Bad did that in the end. Yeah. Okay. My turn? Yes. So I didn't do as good of a job of separating out my points this time. I just have kind of the game of mingle as one long point where I was just going to go through beat by beat and talk about different things that happened. Is that okay with you? Yeah, do it. Okay. So first, I just think it's a visually really good game with this circus tent aesthetic.

[00:29:16] All shades of pink, which makes their green uniforms pop really well. And then standing in this circle with colored doors all around and then showing this top down view as they frantically try to group up like their ants or something. It's just really great. I think the rotation of the circle actually is kind of pointless because the doors go all the way around. Like if the circle rotated and it put some people further away from the doors than the others, then it would have some relevance.

[00:29:43] But it's just for looks, I think. Well, it also makes you a bit dizzy. Yeah. It disorients you. If it spun really fast, that'd be interesting. But then, and when they go into the rooms, just having this little slit so they can look out and see the carnage is just so cruel. But also so the guns can come in and kill you. Come in and get you, yeah. The social dynamics of the game, it played out almost just like I was picturing in my head where everybody's like, Oh, over here, we need a few.

[00:30:12] Get out of here. You know, fighting. It felt like a really fast life or death version of that stereotypical thing where you pick teams on a playground as a kid and you're afraid you're not going to get picked. You know, it's just so anxiety inducing. I know. And also what I think is the most fascinating about it is you learn really quick who in your group has the deepest connections.

[00:30:37] And like Sonia, the shaman, she's so annoying that of course she was the first one to get left behind. And I thought, what if I was with my like six closest friends and had to play this? Man, I hope we never have to do anything like that because I don't want to know what would happen. You know, it's just so awful. So going through B by B, the first round is 10 people.

[00:31:05] They all scramble into the rooms. And Sonia's screaming at her team that they're alive because of her, which I think was to build up that annoyance I was talking about. So they would leave her behind in the second round, which was four, where we see Thanos gleefully kick one guy out, play player 256. And just reinforce my opinion that this guy is total evil. Like you might have to, as I was saying before, be cruel in this game.

[00:31:35] It's kill or be killed, but you don't have to take joy in it. Yeah. And I think it takes a particular kind of sociopath for that. Later though, he seemed concerned about this guy. And I wonder, is that just because he's high and doesn't realize what he's doing or? Because he's just a piece of shit. He was because he's playing like it was all for playing up Minsu. Like it was just he's such a. Anyway, I have. Yeah. Lots of thoughts. We'll get to yours. Okay.

[00:32:05] Then Inho goes to look for another group. Mom and their son in this second round, four people. This is when they leave Sonia out and she's giving them evil stares. And then later in the dorm tells them that she's put a curse on them. Yeah. And I love the mom like wiping off all the bad juju off of everybody. Well, and just to speak to the curse, can I just say something about that? Yeah. Okay. So one of my other points, but you're kind of absorbing it is. Yeah. Go for it.

[00:32:34] Her betrayal because she's, she betrays them because they betrayed her. So she turns that betrayal into a weapon. And what she says to them is you're going to die staring at each other the whole time. And is this a foreshadowing for the next game? Is it going to be a staring contest?

[00:33:01] You're all going to die staring at each other the whole time. That's a kid game. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I was like, what does she know? Oh, right. I don't know if her any, yeah. Has she given many predictions and have they been right or not? But I could see totally this being foreshadowing. But I also think, and I'm going to talk about this a little bit more later too, but that this woman who became her disciple apparently is the one who cast the vote that didn't let them go home this time.

[00:33:31] So this came back to bite them in the ass. But anyway, let's get back to this game. Third round is three people. And Thanos and his lackey guy whose name I always forget, of course, they just think we're solid. So let's figure out which one of you two, that Minsu guy, the meat guy. And I think Sammy, the nose ring girl have to do rock, paper, scissors to be third.

[00:33:57] And I was thinking Sammy said she had teamed up with guys like this because she thought she could control them or something. Yeah. Not here. Then Minsu wins the rock, paper, scissors. But then, oh, this guy's Namgyu. He accuses Minsu of cheating. He said he took a beat. And I'm like, yeah, I think he did, right? That was the point of that. Well, and that was my question. I thought she did it on purpose. The first time I watched it because she says, go with me. So she says to Minsu, let's go.

[00:34:28] And then they put out their hand. I thought she did it like, here's paper. You make your decision. Because then I thought she was like, I'm paper. So you're like the little boy that I'm looking after. So you do something to defeat me and I will go and look after myself. So the first time I watched it, I was like, oh, she sacrificed herself for him knowing he couldn't do it on his own. He needs these guys. She doesn't. But then the second time I watched it, I was like, oh, she's really pissed at him. She's mad. She's mad.

[00:34:57] I think he didn't go right when he was supposed to. Right. And so, but, you know, she should have said, you cheated. Yeah. So she should have been like, no, not okay. But anyway. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So then we see these two guys. I forget who, but they pull the son away from his mom. Yeah. Yeah. And he was fighting them some. Do you think he was fighting with all his might?

[00:35:28] I mean, I thought so, but she didn't think so. He seems to me like he's like, no, no, but a little bit paralyzed. I don't know. I don't know. She certainly came to his defense. Well, she, because she was trying to write a story that would make him not the bad guy. Yeah. Cause then she ends up in a room with Gihan and Inho and they're like, whoa, what happened to your son? And she's like, my son isn't that kind of person.

[00:35:57] We may be poor, but he has a good heart. He'd rather be bullied and bully another human being. He's never hurt a soul. Watch what you say. And that all of that just. Reaffirms my feeling about her, that she values kindness over power, especially power gained by bullying. And that I just think of her as representing this society that cares for its people.

[00:36:21] And, um, and now, I mean, I'm relating this to our current situation where we have these systems where there's like safety nets and things, you know, social security, Medicare and other proposed things. And, and we need intelligent people running those and strong regulations. And we're seeing, uh, a bully strip all that away.

[00:36:46] And so, and, and I mean, I guess I'm bringing this up because I think does bullying win, you know, and I hope not, but sometimes it seems like it might, it might. I mean, that's Darwinistic. That's the Darwinistic way to live where the weak don't survive. And she, you might look at her and think she's weak, but in order for people like that to win, who, um, care about others and want everyone to have basic needs met.

[00:37:14] But you have to have the strong people agree to help the weak, not bully them. So anyway, I know that's a bit deep for that one little moment, but it's what it made me think of. So anyway, Minsoo is glad to see that Sammy made it through, but she, she's pissed at him and she breaks his gaze. Uh, the mother is glad to see that young me, Hyunju and Young Seok, who's the father of this girl at the amusement park with blood cancer.

[00:37:44] They teamed up and made it through. Um, and then Young Sick, the son apologized to the mom and that this scene got me more than anything in the episode where he just can't, he's like, I'm sorry. You know, that was just so, uh, impactful and she forgave him. And I wonder, I mean, she seemed like she really did fully forgive him to me, but I don't know if that'll have an impact on their relationship going forward. But I noticed through the rest of the game, he's holding tightly to her hand.

[00:38:14] He's not going to do that again. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, then fourth round is six people and you see people fighting over rooms now, which is another interesting aspect of this game. Uh, then you'd have this moment where young me gets pushed out away and the crypto guy jumped in and his ex is in there.

[00:38:36] Jun he and the, the door gets slammed and we see Hyun Joo and young me at the either side of the door saying their goodbye as she gets shot. And it's really dramatic. And then Hyun Joo is pissed at Myung Gi, but he says it was too late to save her. And he saved all their lives by jumping in. And then his girlfriend, Jun he agrees with that his ex-girlfriend. And I don't know. What do you think? Do you think they're right about that?

[00:39:02] Well, I don't know because in, um, red light, green light, somehow Ki-hun managed to drag that. Oh, it was him and Umi. Is that her name? Umi? Her name is Hyun Ji, but, uh, young me calls her Umi. Oh, like, yeah. It's a term of endearment or something. Like aunt probably. Anyway, they managed to drag. Remember somebody over the, over the line.

[00:39:31] And I'm like, I feel like she was way closer than that guy was. So I actually think they could have saved her. Yeah, I do too. I mean, there were about two and a half seconds left when she was outside the door. And I think it, maybe it was a little bit hard to see how far away she was. But I was thinking when I used to play volleyball and there would be a ball that somebody on my side hit and it went out of bounds.

[00:39:59] And I just run like hell, you know, and jump. And sometimes I could get it and you can actually run a lot farther than you think in just a couple seconds. So I don't know, man. I think because June, he agreed that, oh yeah, you're he, he, I don't like this guy, but he's right. Um, she couldn't have gotten back and he saved all of us. I think that's what the writers were maybe going for. But really, I think she probably could have gotten back in. Yeah.

[00:40:26] Um, did they say how many rounds there would be at the beginning? I don't. I don't, I don't remember. Because I kept thinking how, how long are they going to do this? Um, fifth round was two people and in how had I predicted, or maybe he already just knew that there would be two. He says there's 126 people left and only 50 rooms. So there won't be. I don't even know there were. Oh, cause there was a sign that said 126, right? Left. Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There must've been. Yeah.

[00:40:56] Yeah. Cause I'm like, what is he counting everyone? Like rain man or something. Um, and then, um, so now it's like a deadly musical chairs and we, that whole thing that we already talked about with in ho and Jung Bay with this guy that in ho kills. And, uh, I guess that's the whole game. Um, only young me died of the people that we've been following, but that was the whole thing. It was a lot.

[00:41:27] All right. What else do you want to talk about? Well, foreshadowing. Um, so throughout the series, um, there's been instances of foreshadowing, um, to, and I, it's hard to know if these are red herrings or these are like predictors for what's going to happen. I'd like to think with only seven episodes, they're not going to waste time introducing something if it's not going to play out later. So specifically, okay.

[00:41:56] So when the, I don't know anybody's name, when the mother, the old mother, like you talked about this before. I call them like, we boil them down to their stereotypes. So it's like the mother, the son, and then I feel bad because then you have to say the trans woman and I'm like, is that okay to just say the trans woman, but we're just boiling them all down to their stereotypes. Yeah. So she's a midwife or she helps people. She's an unofficial midwife. She helps people in her community give birth. And I feel like we wouldn't have learned that. Oh yeah.

[00:42:24] If there isn't going to be a birth next episode, it's like the next episode is going to, they're just throwing in everything. It's going to be so bad. David, by the way, I hope people don't mind me saying, but he told me he thought this was a great episode. This, the finale. Yeah. Yeah. He thought it was his family. Oh really? Yeah. Um, also it was really interesting to watch them get their meal in this episode because yes, they got forks, which obviously, and then Gi-Hoon looks at the fork and he knows what, why they've been given forks.

[00:42:52] It's like in the season one when they were given knives, steak knives and they get to keep their knives. Well, here they are. Every single person has a weapon all of a sudden and no one else has cottoned onto this except him. Um, I mean, maybe some other people have, but the other thing they gave them was glass bottles. Oh. Because they're walking back from getting their, it's him and his friend and they're

[00:43:16] sipping out of a glass bottle and like his friend Marine, old Marine, Jen Bay looks at the, he looks at the glass bottle like, like this is tasty. But I was like, oh my God, it's also a weapon. Well, the fork one paid off already. I know the fork one did, but I'm wondering if they're going to bring in those glass bottles because I don't think they've ever been given glass before. Um, also when the shaman says, she's like, you're going to die staring at each other. Um, what else did I have?

[00:43:45] I guess that was it really. Um, I hope you're right about, yeah, the staring one. That'd be interesting. I just feel like there are other, I was just trying to think of other things that happened that we know are going to play out. Like, is something going to happen with those drugs in the cross? Is, it's also hard because, okay, the other thing that I think was probably going to come out. I don't think the young Marine was really a Marine. You know, something happened in one of the earlier episodes.

[00:44:13] I can't remember what it was, but he said something and it, I think it was, he said something and you could tell he wasn't actually a Marine. I can't remember what it was, but I don't think he was really a Marine. I think he's made up a story. So all of these people have these like things about them that I think are going to come up. And so I think we're going to learn and there's going to be like, it's foreshadowing and betrayal. Like people have betrayed each other so many, in so many ways.

[00:44:40] So, um, MG coin portrayed his pregnant girlfriend. Um, the young Marine will have betrayed the old Marine by when we find out he was never actually a Marine and he lied. Um, yeah, he's betrayed Gihun. Cause it turns out he's actually like a cold blooded killer and also another winner. Like, I just feel like there's, so is it betrayal that I'm talking about or foreshadowing or is

[00:45:10] it all like mixed in together? I don't know, but these people, like certainly the son has betrayed his mother many times. Well, it's sort of mixed in together because it's all about the sort of potential things. Yeah. That will bear fruit or come out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the other thing is they keep having the mother defend her son. Like parents do this. Parents always look for the best thing about their kid.

[00:45:36] Like very rarely do you admit that your kid is not great or kind of a jerk or whatever. And you always defend them and you always are like, that's he's, it's not as like, not really, but sometimes parents will be like, it's not really his fault. Like they never want it to be their kids. Who's the problem. And so I think that's going to come, she's going to have to decide. I don't know. But like, so I feel like they set up all of these things and I wish they had played out

[00:46:01] earlier in the show, because I think if we have all of this payoff, like did we just do, is it just six episodes of foreplay? And then, you know, like. Yeah. I mean, there was a show. What did I see recently? Sometimes, yeah, it, I can't remember what show I'm thinking of, but I remember feeling

[00:46:23] like this, there's a lot of setup and teasing and foreplay, like you're saying. And then when it finally pays off, I got to admit sometimes that it's all the better because of how much we had to wait. So maybe it'll be like that, you know? I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. And, and even with the, with the guys and the, on the water, like it's in six episodes and they just found one thing.

[00:46:53] Like, it's like. Oh, I know. Yeah. That's sort of its own point, but yeah, it's, that's been really dragging. Well, shall we discuss them? Sure. Yeah. What do you want to say? You go, you go first. Oh, oh, just that, um, I don't believe that the captain is bad because it's too obvious. It's too obvious that he'd be the bad guy. I think the betrayer is somebody else. I think he's a red herring. I think there is one.

[00:47:23] I think there is one, but I think it's a red herring to say it's the captain. I think the captain is just a guy. If it's not him, then wouldn't it have to be Choi? Because, but I can't, it can't be him. So I don't know, man. Cause there's no distinctive characters. Well, there's the other helper, like the other soldier man. Yeah. He's the only other one. Yeah. But I, I was starting to agree with you this episode because he's pretty much going along with the search, you know?

[00:47:50] I mean, after the explosion goes off and I don't know how many people died. Was it just one? He suggests going home and they're like, no, we don't want to. And he's like, okay. Okay. So he's not really doing that much to mess things up. Well, and even him saying, shouldn't we go home? Are you sure you don't want to go home? Maybe we, maybe he needs to go to the hospital. That to me felt like they were telling us, look, he wants to, he wants to abort the search. But I think he's just asking, like, sure you don't want to go to the hospital? It's totally reasonable.

[00:48:19] I think it's a red herring that he's, that he's, he's a bad guy. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to think for sure, because sometimes I think the show isn't subtle at all. It might be giving you too much credit to think that it would do red herrings, but we'll see. Maybe. We'll see. But as far as that whole thing, they send out this drone, they find this, it reminded me of Lost, the hatch. And it's rigged with explosives.

[00:48:47] And Choi thinks that means the Squid Game people know where they are, but I'm not sure it means that. I think it could just mean that their team was on the right track and the Squid Game people booby trap entrances to their stuff. Yeah. But they just thought, oh, I guess it's not that island because the door blew up or something. I didn't quite get that. Yeah. Keep looking. I know. Are they just going to give up on that island? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:16] Speaking of Lost, I've been watching it with my children. And Freddy, who's five, built a hatch out of snow. He had a pile of snow and he dug in a hole and then he said, tomorrow I'm going to jump on that hatch and make it explode. That's fun. I should watch that with my kids. Are they digging it? Yeah. Yeah. The oldest, my 12 year old really likes it. Such a good show. So. Okay.

[00:49:46] I'm going to do one about the vote. Yes. And I think this show is trying to comment a bit on the polarized nature of politics. I don't know though, because that is that just a distinctly American thing. And I'm just being ethnocentric, but that's what it feels like to me.

[00:50:11] Like for the six legged game, I noticed X's and O's were teaming up on the same teams. And, and that game was all about helping each other and cheering each other on. But now increasingly the two sides are more lined up. The O's stick together. The X stick together. They're more polarized. And this episode is entitled OX. And I think it's the system that contributed to the polarization. Like it's a system where for some people to win, others have to lose.

[00:50:40] So that separates the people who care about winning more than anything from those who are either just not suited to that kind of thing or don't want to participate in or like for whatever reason, fear of death, not wanting to put others in danger. And so I equate that to unfettered capitalism where some people just want a system where only the hustlers survive and thrive and others want one where there's a safety net.

[00:51:09] So everyone's basic needs can be met. I don't know. Maybe that's just me throwing my own current thoughts onto it. I think it's like any good story where you as the receiver of the story can find ways to connect it to your own experiences. So if you had a different, if you had a different experience, then you can find in it something else.

[00:51:35] Like it can be a commentary on the way we betray people or the way, like, yeah, I think it's a lot to do with how society is. I think it's a lot to do with how society is work, but I don't know if it was written so much to be about. I think it's just because that's what you're experiencing right now. So that's what you're getting out of it. And that's fine. That's what stories are for. Right. Yeah. I mean, and I mean, there's, there's gotta be some, it's, it is about just human behavior and social dynamics, you know, and that's related to all of this.

[00:52:04] And, you know, when they had this vote, that polarization was especially evident because they've all, not all, but most of them have cemented their positions, the X's and the O's and, and settled into their sides. And it feels like a United States vote where you're just trying to get some people on the fringes to switch over to get your side to win, you know? Yeah. Um, so there's 56 people who voted.

[00:52:34] Oh, last time left and 44 who voted X. Oh, is to, to stay X is to leave. And so if all the previous X's vote X again, then only six more would have to change minds to make it so they could go home. And I was thinking about it.

[00:52:54] I, I would think, I would think if I was in that situation that six people would just naturally change their mind at this point because people want, they don't want to die. And so I would think that each time they make it through alive, there's, it's more likely that more of them are going to say, okay, I pushed my luck far enough. There's more money now. I'm going to go home. You know? Yeah. You would think so.

[00:53:22] And to that end, this was just like something I thought of is, so why doesn't Gi-Hoon say, I'll go find seven people. I'll offer to pay their debts. Yeah. Like he doesn't have to offer to pay everyone's debts, but he can find seven people. And he's like, if you vote with us, I'll pay your debt. Who has, you know, who owes what? He doesn't have to announce it to the room. He can just go find seven people who seem like maybe they'd be willing to do it. Like not the bloodthirsty, like don't talk to Thanos.

[00:53:52] Not that old guy who keeps yelling at everyone. Yeah. Yeah. But go talk to like the people who seem like just the most desperate and just say, hey. Yeah. Like, I don't know why that to me, that feels like the easiest, easiest solution at this point. It's like, we just need six people. Let's find six people. And maybe that's going to be in the next episode. Maybe it will. But if it's not, I think it's because the writers want more drama, something more dramatic and less easy than that. But you're so right. Yeah.

[00:54:19] I haven't even thought about that, but that's totally right on about what he should do. So, but I'm thinking about sort of a counterpoint to what I just said that you would think more people would start voting to go home at this point. But the pot is 300 million won. And I went back to the episode where they were blasting out who, how much people owed. Yeah.

[00:54:43] I didn't say everyone, but the lowest was the girl that Thanos was flirting with and she died in the red light, green light game. She owed 45 million won. But the next lowest was Hyun Joo, the trans woman, and she owed 330 million. So, this 300 million wouldn't totally cover her, but it would be a lot. And 300 million is how many dollars? About $207,000. Okay. American dollars.

[00:55:13] American, yeah. I don't know. Canadian. We just use pine cones. American to Canadian these days. Like, I don't even know. Sure, it's terrible. But everyone else owed, that they mentioned anyway, owed over a billion won. And a few had like two and three. The crypto guy owed 1.8 billion. Thanos, 1.19 billion. The older guy owed the most, 10 billion.

[00:55:41] So, for all those people, 300 million doesn't really make a lot of difference. So, I could see why if they're voting to stay, they're probably going to keep voting. Yeah, that's so much money. I know. 207, so where, what did we say? 270,000 US dollars? 207,000. 207, okay. That is $298,035.80 Canadian. There you go.

[00:56:10] I wouldn't want to owe that much money. No. So, enough people. Well, so we see people switch O to X. Youngbae, Gi-hun's friend. Se-mi, the nose ring girl. Youngsik, the son. Min-su, the guy that Thanos and his sidekick always bully. Hyun-ju, the trans woman. A new person who we really haven't paid much attention to.

[00:56:37] Player 15, voted, changed from stay to leave. And then, oh wait, I have Youngsik down here twice. One, two, three, four, five, six. I don't know. There must have been someone else. Because I thought it was seven. Anyway, then I love this because this is about In-ho, all of this. Yeah.

[00:56:56] Because right when you're hearing, you're seeing this vote, you're also seeing Jungbae kind of start to tell Gi-hun that, oh, In-ho did something strange so that we'll suspect that he's going to fuck it up and vote to stay. Yeah. But then, player six, this woman switches from leave to stay, throwing off the balance. She's this one that's this new disciple of Sonia, the shaman, bows to her with her hands together like a prayer.

[00:57:25] And I was sort of thinking this is about faith and how in times of desperation, more people turn to faith-based kinds of things sometimes. And that, coalitions of that can sway elections, you know. I don't know. You're really in it right now. I know. I'm really in it.

[00:57:49] And so then In-ho now doesn't have to cast, if he wants to stay, presuming he does, we don't, I still don't know what the hell he wants. But if he was going to have to reveal himself and choose to stay, he doesn't have to now. Although his vote to leave is, still makes it only a tie, so they're going to have to vote again.

[00:58:14] But maybe if player six hadn't voted to stay, he would have voted to stay just to potentially keep the games going. I feel like In-ho is only, he's only playing with Gi-hun. Everyone else there is a pawn and it's just a bait, it's just a game between the two of them. And Gi-hun doesn't know that.

[00:58:38] And so everything that In-ho is doing is for Gi-hun. He's playing with him exclusively and everyone else is just like window dressing. This is my new theory that I just came up with right now. I mean, I had a feeling at first that he was trying to convince Gi-hun of something, you know?

[00:59:03] And it seems like, but I don't know exactly what, but that the games are good or needed or something good about the games, why they should happen, something like that, you know? And something about the nature of people too, maybe, that Gi-hun's wrong about people and that people are like something and the games are just naturally good because of that or I don't know, like it's so vague. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see, yeah.

[00:59:30] So then we get the X's and O's now sitting all on opposite sides of the dorm and Young-sik and Gum-ja, the mother and son offer them Korean beef and noodles and it's a bribe basically. And then the older guy says, once you all die in the next game, we can all leave with 800 million each. And they're all screaming at each other and come together like they're going to fight. And I'm like, that is like just polarization to the extreme, to the point where they're ready to kill each other.

[00:59:56] And that feels disturbingly familiar to me right now because I've been in it, as you said. And then the bathroom fight and when Thanos and this other guy are trying to bully this guy to change his vote and Myung-gi, the crypto guy says, you're interfering with the vote. And Nam-gi says, the amazing Myung-gi, what do you think you are? The election commissioner?

[01:00:23] I'm like, yeah, that feels like a deliberately topical comment about elections and the breakdown of democracy. And Thanos says, MG coin, you're next. So just take a piss and get out. And then Myung-gi says, everyone on Team X, these guys are threatening one of us. They're forcing him to vote O next time. And then Thanos yells, hey, Team O, these X's are about to attack us.

[01:00:49] And that just also reminds me of politics where a politician will lash out at someone in a bullying way and then that person will respond and then people complain about the response rather than the bullying. Then this fight breaks out and Myung-gi forks Thanos in the throat. And I had the thought in my head, well, there's one less vote to stay. But we'll see what happens. Yes.

[01:01:19] So that was it for me on that one. Do you have any more points? Um, yeah. Well, just the way the mean guys, like the Thanos and his friend are manipulating Minsu. It seems so familiar to what people do to people and how to control people. And they're like, we'll just play one more game. Like the fact that they're trying to make this kid to convince him to stay. Like he, I thought I was so proud of him for voting to leave. Yeah.

[01:01:50] For Minsu to vote to leave because the pressure was so great for him to stay. And he voted to leave. And I thought that. It was a risk because he was hoping if enough people vote this, maybe I won't have to deal with these guys. We can just leave and go home. And just the way they, um, I think the nose ring girl thought she could pair up with them because she figured she could control them.

[01:02:13] And then she realized she can't like, they're too, they're too far gone for her to like actually control. And so they're really dangerous and they're manipulating people for their own agenda. And then the shaman woman is also manipulating people for her own agenda. So I think the shaman, shaman, um, her, she just wants to destroy the people that betrayed her. Like, I don't even think she wants to stay to win money.

[01:02:43] I think she just is angry that she got, um, it's about, I don't know, is it all about like feeling included and she got excluded. And so then she found new friends and she convinced them. But the whole thing is just to, um, it's, it reminded me of in the first season, the woman who she ended up, she was the one who was trying to like manipulate people sexually. Remember her? She was really annoying. You found her incredibly irritating. Yeah. Minyao. Yeah.

[01:03:13] And Minyao also had eyeliner, like tattooed on eyeliner. Yeah. I thought of her too when this shaman woman first came into it. So in my, I think in a way what Thanos and the shaman are doing is just trying to seed chaos. Like, I don't think either one of them really wants to win. I think they're just good at manipulating people around them. And so they're targeting people, but I don't think it's about winning the money.

[01:03:40] I think it's actually just about like power and control. Like a microcosm of the way society works is that some people do what they do for money, but it's usually about power and control. It's a challenge for me to figure out Sonia, the shaman, to make her a real person because she just seems really cartoony to me.

[01:04:08] But the way I tried to figure it out, I talked a little bit about it last week, is that she just had some emotional problems. And so she turned to this shamanism to help her through it and found her power in it, in a sense. And so now she'll make these really strong statements about what the gods want and don't want. But, you know, that'll crack easily if things don't go her way.

[01:04:37] Like in the Sixth Leg is she was so nervous and just fucking up, you know, and someone had to slap her across the face to get her to do it right. But, I mean, I'm not saying that whatever really works, but that's what happened. But anyway, I think she's in the story as to just antagonize, really. That's what she is. She's an agent of antagonism.

[01:04:59] But as far as being a real character, one thing about her is that she makes these statements of belief that have to do with what the gods want and don't want and what they have planned. And I think sometimes people who are really strong in their sense of reality gain followers, whether what they're saying actually makes much sense or not, you know.

[01:05:26] And so I do believe that these it seems like she has a couple of acolytes now that she gained in this mingled game. And I do believe that kind of thing happens a lot. So I find that part of it really interesting. But, yeah, I mean, at her core, she's just vindictive and prickly and just, like I said, more of an agent of antagonism than a real person. It feels like to me. She feels really cartoony to me.

[01:05:56] Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's to the credit of the actor who plays Thanos that he's not cartoony. Yeah. Because I think he could be also just like a caricature. And I think that that actor is doing a really good job of actually making him an unlikable person, but definitely a person. Yeah. He seems more like a real person. I know probably there's people listening who are like, what are you guys talking about? He seems cartoony to me. But I agree with you. I think he seems more like a real person who's playing this role, like being bigger than life.

[01:06:26] But in a way, because he's just got such a big ego, you know, and he wants people to follow him. And he's got a real strong sense of that I'm the best and all this. And people follow it. Does he have ego or does he have bravado? Because he talked about how he was going to kill himself. Like he was going to die by suicide. He was jumping. He was ready to jump off a bridge. Do you believe it? I do. I'm not sure. I thought it could just be a manipulative tactic or it could be true.

[01:06:56] I don't know. Because he mentioned the guy bringing, he's like, that's where the man found me. And that's why I'm here. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's hard because it didn't come off necessarily as a vulnerable moment and more as I'm trying to say what I need to say to get this guy to do what I want. But it could still be true, though. I don't know. So many questions. So many. Okay. Okay. Do you have any other points before we move on to notes? No, I just have little notes. Okay. Go ahead. Okay.

[01:07:26] One thing I wanted to know was sort of this, the business of the vote. Why do any of these people think that they're going to be let go? Like they're voting to leave and they really think that they're going to let a hundred people leave? A hundred people. It's one thing. You don't think they are? No. What do you mean? They did it last season. They let them all go. Before it all got, I guess.

[01:07:56] Yeah, I guess I forgot about that. It was after the red light, green light. Yeah. Yeah, I guess. It just seems crazy. Your point is still valid because only Gi-hun knows that for sure. Like Gi-hun, like it's one thing for every year, one person to leave and say, oh my God, I participated in this horrible thing. But for a hundred people to leave and say we had to like witness people die and, but you're right. I guess they did let 400 people go and no one's ever stopped it. So I guess it's reasonable. It's just not realistic. I mean, that would never really happen.

[01:08:26] But I mean, yeah, this whole thing would be shut down. You don't. The other thing I wanted to say is I really do like, as much as I say I'm annoyed that there's too many characters and we don't get to know them, I really like that they haven't made the father with the sick child a main character. Yeah. Like we don't know his name. I was glad to see him a little more in it this time. Like he's just around, but like we're not, like I don't know anything about him. I don't know his name.

[01:08:53] He's not part of the crew, friends. I presume he'll tie into Noel's story, you know? Yeah. And I like that they're not bringing her story into, like there's two stories. Like she's having her own journey. And I think it's, I'm just glad we don't have to like worry about yet another person. Like we just. Right.

[01:09:16] And the other thing I wanted to say was when they're playing the games and they flash up to the, whoever the new front man is, and he's in a room with a bunch of guys and they're in their suits and they're at computers. And then on the floor there's like the squares of all the players. And when they die, they snuff them out. Their squares go black. Why are there eight people at computers? What are they doing? Why do you need eight people?

[01:09:44] Like when there's be one person who's pressing, like, like what are they? I think it's just for aesthetics. I think it just looks good. A lot of stuff's for aesthetics. But just devil's advocate, other side of the coin. I mean, they have a lot, they have to monitor a lot of people so they can know who to kill. So maybe that's part of it, you know? Oh, maybe. It just seemed like so many people. Anyway, that's all I want. That's, that's, that's the rest of what I was going to say. I was glad they did show.

[01:10:11] I forgot to mention this when we were talking through the game, but they did show people who didn't have the right number of people in the room, which I could totally see happening. You know, just scramble in there and you're like, oh, fuck, well, we did another person. God damn it. Yes. We've covered all my notes, except that, yeah, we should just really put a fine point on it that we see in the mingle game that the organ trade is still going on, that they marked a coffin of a guy who was shot but not dead and squirming around.

[01:10:39] And then, you know, someone told Noel, you know, just keep it up, you know? So, so I guess she did decided to stop trying to put a stop to that. And is in for my foreshadowing theory, is that going to come out where somebody escapes? Like, could somebody get out of one of those boxes? It happened to the first one, didn't it? Or somebody woke up and. Yeah. What happened with that? Somebody beat up. Like they, she jumped off the table.

[01:11:09] I don't remember. Yeah. I can't remember. But, um, I don't know. I think, I think Noel's got a, her trajectory has to change somehow. It's not just going to be that she's just going to stop doing anything and play by the rules now. Right. It can't just be that. Yeah.

[01:12:07] Okay. We're back. It's time for some listener feedback. Do you want to go first? Sure. Penny Lennox says, my favorite episode and game of the season. First, there's the amazing visuals with the perfect circle of the turntable. And overwhelming pinks shot from above. And then the growing amounts of wet, shiny blood on the floor. The song that is so catchy. You find yourself enjoying it. And then horrified by what you're seeing. A real rollercoaster of emotions. The drama of each round getting more and more deranged. And the small betrayals along the way.

[01:12:36] It felt like concentrated squid game syrup. Penny describes that with such relish. Yes. Thanks, Penny. Okay. Let's see. Becky Anderson says, this game was insane. The first one that guarantees the body count will rise. It was interesting watching the players who had original alliances turn on each other to ensure their survival. 001 showed his true self when he snapped the neck of a player to make so only he and Jungbae survived.

[01:13:06] I'm saying, I mean, true self. I think anybody would have done that. Or not anybody, but a lot of people. Anyways. I love the way Jungbae reacted with absolute relief, followed by shock and awe. That bathroom brawl was crazy. And I have to admit, I wasn't sad to see Thanos go. Me neither. It's clear 001 is fully in control. And I'm still wondering how Gi-hun thinks he's going to end the games. Again, I say, boat captain is shady AF.

[01:13:32] I mean, yeah, Gi-hun has just been saying lately, I don't know how much more I can help with here. And I think he just thinks the best he can do is to try to get everyone to vote to go home at this point. And then survive the games, you know, in the middle. Catherine Peters. I would completely understand Jason's dislike of the lighthearted music, but it makes everything scarier for me. Maybe I watch too many horror movies, but when they play kids' music, I immediately get nervous waiting for the jump scare.

[01:14:00] The mother and son and their complicated relationships are still my favorites. I thought the mom would go in this episode, but now I wonder if she won't outlast her son. It wasn't until I listened to last week's podcast that I considered the season ending in the middle of the games. During this episode, I thought the season might end with the players voting their way out. But now I'm afraid if too many Xs won't make it to tomorrow's vote. I went from loving Thanos and his dancing with a friend during Mingle to being disappointed in his intimidation in the bathroom.

[01:14:28] He's not as good, bad, as the villain Zhang Duk-Soo in season one, but that fork was still satisfying. Only one more episode. Most people agree. I think you're right. There's going to be like a fork slash broken bottle war. Yeah. In the next episode. Maybe it won't. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe the games won't actually. They'll just end for some reason. And then season three will be something different.

[01:14:55] Maybe what will happen is in the middle of the, in the middle of the battle. Um, okay. So there's this French Canadian book that was turned into a movie when I was a child called La Guerre des Tucs or the dog who stopped the war. And the whole thing is about these kids who build forts and they have this war in their community where they get together and they fight over this fort. Oh yeah. And it becomes this huge battle where the entire town, like the kids are all, and it

[01:15:23] becomes like really squid gamey actually. Like they're just, like they just hate each other. It becomes really intense. And there's a dog that lives in the neighborhood that everyone's friends with and the dog doesn't take sides. And then they finally have a major battle where they're going to like really, you know, destroy each other over this fort. And then what ends up happening is because the battle is so intense, the dog gets crushed by the snow. It's incredibly sad. I've never been able to watch it as an adult, but we all had to watch it as children in school

[01:15:52] and they stopped the war. The dog who stopped the war because everyone realizes that what happens is the dog dying. So you're saying Gi-Hoon's going to die? No, I'm saying the baby's going to be born. The baby's going to be born in the middle of the battle and they're all going to put their forks down and celebrate the birth of a child. And then together they will leave as a community to raise the baby in a collective village. In a socialist village. Yes. That's what I think is going to happen. All right.

[01:16:22] That's amazing. That movie, is that a Christmas movie? No, but it is set in the winter. Maybe there's Christmas in there. I don't know. Because I did a list of top Christmas movies with Amelie, who's French Canadian. Oh, okay. And I think that was on her list. Oh, yeah. It might be something they show on. It might be. Yeah. It might be. I don't know. We just watched. I just watched it in school. One of those movies that people argue about, whether it's a Christmas movie or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:16:51] Somebody animate that. That'd be cool. All right. Karen Snyder says, I'm really enjoying the show, but it's getting harder for me to buy that so many of the players would vote to remain in the game. After seeing so many people gunned down and seeing how easily you could lose and be killed. I believe the prize money was about $54,000 per player when they voted before this last game, which I can understand they felt was paltry. But after the last game, it was about $248,000 per player.

[01:17:18] I realized that for dramatic purposes, there had to be that many people voting to stay, but it's starting to feel like the department of suspension of disbelief. I mean, on one hand, I agree with you, Karen, because it's life or death. And I think at some point people might go, I don't want to die, even though I'm going back to a lot of debt. I can't continue this. But as I mentioned in this podcast, the money that's left still isn't enough to cover the debt of most people and barely a fraction of it for most of them.

[01:17:46] Like, you know, less than a third. And also, I think the point is to show how sometimes I've said this a few times, pissed a couple people off that a lot of times we vote against our own interests and it doesn't seem like people would actually do that. But here we are. Karen continues on. I was very struck by Jason's discussion of including politics in the podcast and the email that he received that objected to it.

[01:18:11] Speaking of, although the sender said they wouldn't unsubscribe, although her said they wouldn't unsubscribe. I definitely agree that Squid Game has political undertones that beg to be discussed. It would be a challenge to try to discuss those without revealing your own feelings, I think. But maybe somebody could do that. I'd like to see someone try to do that. She goes on. It reminded me of a YouTube content creator that I watch who covers pop culture topics and also mentions his progressive politics, which I mostly agree with.

[01:18:40] He has said that usually any one or two star review that he receives is related to his politics, not his content. I also watch some content creators whose politics I completely disagree with, but I subscribe to their channels and like their videos because they do a good job of covering a particular issue where I do agree with them. I got to admit, I got to admit, I would find it a challenge to do that at this point. But I applaud you for doing that. I've been living in Florida since 2020. So I'm used to assuming that the people that I interact with probably have politics that don't align with my politics.

[01:19:10] And I'm careful to not bring up politics in casual conversations. I lived in San Diego for a few years before moving here. And I actually I knew quite a few people who were very happy with the results of the 2016 election. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, I do. I still I'm a huge stand for trying to stay connected to everyone and not let ourselves get siloed into these tribes. Right. That's not going to be good for anyone.

[01:19:38] Well, I think it's important to remember that everything is political. As the saying goes. And so it's really it's hard to not talk about it. Politics is everywhere in all things. Unfortunately, it is. But I mean, I just that one of the problems and I think I think the Internet has really exacerbated this to a great degree is that it's so much easier now to find a bubble where people agree with you. Yes.

[01:20:08] And then to like that's your sanity and everything outside of it seems insane. And then to sort of other eyes the people outside of that. And then it can get to the point where you start dehumanizing each other. Yeah. That's a recipe for violence and war. So as much as I have pissed people off, I'm sure, by talking about my politics in this.

[01:20:30] If you're still listening, I hope you know that I still want us all to be still connected and still be able to talk to each other about about whatever. Well, it's also interesting knowing what's been going on in Korea politically. How does this show reflect their political situation? We should look into that because I don't really know. Yeah. Because so they've had like all kinds of things going on. I know. Yeah. That's one leader just recently declared martial law. And then. Yeah. So how does. How do they ousted?

[01:21:00] Yeah. So how do their how do their fans in Korea feel about this? Because. Yeah. You know, maybe speaks more to their political situation than than yours, Jason. It might. I mean, as the the writer creator is well aware of global politics and has as I mentioned last time mentioned Trump was an inspiration, one inspiration for doing this story. So.

[01:21:28] But yeah, I'm sure the political situation in Korea is probably way more infused in everything. So I'll I'll look into that a little bit more for next time. Thanks for the homework. No, it's a good idea. All right. We have one call from Sam. Oh, we are almost done with season two. I just want to say I I really am loving the podcast. Like I'm looking for like every Wednesday. Like, is it out yet? You guys are doing such a great job.

[01:21:58] You're making me think more in depth about the characters, the situations, the overall message of these games. And I just really appreciate it. And thank you, Jason, for for what you said last week. And David and Karen, too, for bringing up just I mean, this is. Exactly what you said, Jason, like this is what the creator meant to have a dialogue about. And just, you know, say like movies, TV shows, books, music.

[01:22:27] They've all been a form of telling stories. That's what humans do. And this is another version of that. And all stories going back into human history, at least were meant to tell us lessons, stories, morals, values, whatever you want to call it. And that's what this show is doing. And I think one of the reasons it resonates with me and so many people across the world is that it's relatable. So I just really appreciated it and naming it and everything you guys do for the podcast.

[01:22:55] I would have died like first round in this game if one of y'all didn't save me. Like everything about this would have been just sensory overload between like the merry-go-round of death and then it's stopping, the music stopping. And then you suddenly have to find a random number that you don't know ahead of time. You need to split up and make sure everyone's OK. Then you need to run to a room and then watch through a handy little mail slot. How everyone else who didn't act as quickly as you did was brutally murdered in front of you.

[01:23:26] So yeah, it's a really intense game and it made me, it still makes me sweat every time I watch it. They did have a very catchy tune though. It's not a bad death track. I could see why people were making like videos and dances to it. It is a very tough thing. Like I liked it. Also, it looks like Thanos and his lackey liked it too from their dancing. One of my favorite scenes in all of Squid Games.

[01:23:52] And just from the sheer joy they are having, we don't get a lot of joy in this series. And they're having the time of their lives on the murder game. They're high. And they're also kind of trolling the other players and the creators of the games who want a good game. Yes, I don't think they plan for people to be laughing and having fun in it and dancing.

[01:24:14] Thanos accidentally killing Gyeong-su with his little rocket kick was a little unsettling because I don't think he meant to do it. He got into that room and was like, where's Gyeong-su? Like, sir, your drugs made you do it. I don't know what to tell you. Don't do drugs, kids. So that was like, the fact that he didn't realize he was doing it would just come unsettling for me. In Ho, I'm with you guys.

[01:24:42] He really is the most fascinating character in season two. I want to know more. And he keeps dropping little hints like the turd that he is. Like during the musical Chairs from Hell game, he said, People say I'm pretty friendly, so I do quite well in these kinds of games. Sir! Spoilers! You might as well have just winked at the camera. But I mean, I'm enjoying it. Minsu, trash person.

[01:25:09] When he did those scissors, sir, player 380, you deserve so much better. He is not good enough for you. Speaking of trash people, young Sheik abandoning his mom. I get how crazy it must have been. Like, I can't possibly understand. He also didn't fight as hard as I think he should have. And I think even he knew that because he was crying and really remorseful afterwards. Poor young Mi. She just wanted to go home. And it was so heartbreaking.

[01:25:39] I do agree with Mi Young-go, though. Like, they all would have died if they tried to save young Mi. Which I guess goes back to young Sheik. Like, there really isn't a good answer for any of this, is there? Like, that's kind of the point. Like, it's all bad. It's just bad decisions or worse decisions. That is really difficult. Because you need other people to survive, for the most part, in these games. But then you also have to be willing to let them die. Which is really rough.

[01:26:07] I actually don't blame Inho for snapping that dude's neck. I know it was kind of the same thing. Like, it's not fair. It's not a good choice. I think it was the only one he kind of had. What was that look on his face, though? I still can't decipher it. The fight scene in the guy's bathroom was interesting. From the fork scene with Gi-hun. Like, we kind of knew the Jets and the Sharks were going to be going at it pretty soon.

[01:26:34] And still, both times when I watched this, I gasped when the fork went into Thanos' jaw. It just surprised me. So, question. What would you do in Ji-young's shoes? Because you're in the game for the second time. We need to shift everyone from an individualistic standpoint to a collectivistic standpoint. In order to get them to vote to go home. What would you do?

[01:27:01] I would, well, if I had Jenny in there and she told me what to do, I'd do what she said. Which is offer maybe more, you know? Go around and offer money to 10 or 12 people. Yeah. To get them to vote your way. Yeah. Yeah, simple as that. What about in the game, the mingle game? Do you think you'd fare well? Oh my God, no. What would you, did you picture yourself in that situation?

[01:27:31] Well, I'd just be so indecisive. Whoa. I have no idea. I'd be like, I'd be screaming, I think. Screaming at people. I would, I would have, I would think I would have been better about saying, okay, if there's five, it's going to be these five. Like, I think I would say, okay, if we're going to have six, it's going to be these six. Like, I think I would have tried to. But the thing is, yeah, me too. I mean, I was thinking that too. Like you're going around in a circle and you've got your six friends, right? And you're like, if it's six, it's us six.

[01:27:59] But if it's five, then not you. Oh, wait a minute. But I feel like all of them could have worked together and like figured it out. It's too complicated. I don't know. But I mean, I did feel like, I think the most realistic version of that, especially with so little time to think about it, is to look at your best two buddies and be like, as long as it's three or more, we're fucking sticking together, you know? Yeah. I don't know if that would even help though.

[01:28:29] What if it was like five and you need just two more? I don't know. It's just so anxiety producing, like I said before, to think about. Yeah. I don't know how I would do. Like, I feel like I would be trying, I wouldn't just wait for someone to call on me though. I would be yelling at people like you, you and you get the fuck over here. Yeah. Or something like that. But, oh, I should also say, Sam, thank you for the call and the compliments. And that was great. I really appreciate it.

[01:29:09] All right. That is our show. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Jenny, thank you. I'm so happy you were available. And I actually did not expect to find somebody who hadn't watched the finale. So I was pretty amazed. It was great. Appreciate it. Next up, Squid Game, season two, episode seven, Friend or Foe? If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:29:37] And while you're on there, of course, be sure to check out our other shows. One of our most unique and fantastic shows is actually a zombie improv series called Welcome to the Apocalypse. And it stars Jenny. Yay. Yay. What do you want to say about that show? It's really funny. It's great. It's edited really well. The acting is great. It's myself and Randy and Rob.

[01:30:07] And we are all in totally different parts of the... I'm in Canada. They're in different states. I've never met them in person. But the chemistry is great between the three of us, I think. And Randy does a really, really great job at editing it, which really elevates it. Like, I think when it was first pitched to me, I was like, ugh, really? Like an improv podcast? I just... I didn't want to do it. I just thought it sounded like it wasn't going to work. And then I heard how we put it all together. And I was like, this is amazing.

[01:30:37] And we have some really fun guests this season. Some of them are voices that you'll have heard from other podcasts. Some of them are just like people that I know. And yeah, it's really fun. That's great. So we're almost done our second season. But you can always start listing from the beginning if you haven't started yet. You guys play the same characters every time. And you've done a really good job at developing those characters.

[01:31:02] And I wonder if there would ever be like a squid game type situation that could fit into that show. I don't know. Maybe season three. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get forked.