21: "Keys and Knives" (Squid Game S3E1)

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[00:00:34] TV Pos次 fanpage Base root Es gibt diegumen, alle,. But only I, this monster girl, can lead you to the life path. I'm not even here.

[00:01:01] The Lord, you can lead me to my hand.

[00:01:35] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Daphne. And I'm Veronica. In this episode, we're covering Squid Game Season 3, Episode 1, Keys and Knives. Which, even just that title, you're like, things are going to be stuck into things. Yeah. Or people. So, you guys ready for Season 3? Absolutely. I honestly, emotionally don't know if I am, but here we are. Let's go. You said you were excited.

[00:02:05] I am excited. I want to know how it ends, but it's going to be brutal. Oh, and it was just an immediate reminder of all the loss we're going to have to probably experience before the end. I know. Suffering and anxiety. Makes me think of Handmaid's Tale, which we wrapped up a couple weeks ago. And you look at the season, you know it's the last one, and you just try to prepare yourself for whatever could happen. Because you know it could be good or bad, or is probably going to be bad.

[00:02:35] And I'm not spoiling anything, because I'm not going to go into any of that. But that's the type of preparation where you get in your head, we're probably going to lose people that we like, and it's going to be rough. And so, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and with this show, I'm trying not to have any expectations, because I feel like it could go either way at the end there.

[00:02:59] And the only other Korean thing, well, I've seen a few Korean things, and they can get pretty fucked up, like Parasite, the way that ended. I mean, it was a little mixed, but man, it could just really go bad. That was a complete and out of mind fuck, that movie. Such a good movie. I mean, so good, so good. But man, you're not the same after you watch it.

[00:03:27] And I feel like just for all that my continued more and more exposure to foreign filmmaking and, I guess, showmaking is that as Americans, we really love our happy endings. Like, I feel like other film and TV honestly feels a little more real and honest to the human experience, which does have high points, but is often tragic and much darker than that.

[00:03:55] And I don't know what, I mean, I like both. Like, I like the ability to reflect on our human experience and to process some of the things that are really hard just to talk about through art. But then sometimes it's nice to escape and pretend there are very happy endings. And so I think I need that balance. Like, if I'm watching, you know, Spider-Man, I don't want Spider-Man to be dead at the end of it. That would just be no good. I wouldn't be happy about that.

[00:04:21] But a movie like this, where it's about the human condition and it's really brutal and smart, I would be okay with an ending that's not happy as long as it's good, you know? Yeah. Yeah, but you're right. Like, Americans, they want to feel good, a lot of them, when they go. And if it's not a feel-good movie, then they'll think it sucks.

[00:04:45] I think that can honestly indicate why sometimes we're unhappy in our lives, because we've seen too many of these happy ending shows and you think that it's going to get better or at a certain time and it doesn't. And so when you look at your life, you're kind of like, oh, wow, why haven't I had that yet? And it's like, because it's not realistic. That's why we like Squid Game, because no one's giving us knives and saying we have to kill people.

[00:05:13] So we're like, hey, I don't have it that bad. I think as long as they're true to the series. You don't know my life, Jason. It's just like that, huh? You feel right at home? Day to day, yeah. I think I'll be okay as long as they're true to the series.

[00:05:32] Like, the way that it's been constructed and what we're used to and the way the story's been told, as long as it continues and ends in a way that continues that narrative, I'm okay with it. Yeah, it has to feel true to it. But it's really interesting because this is a show that often doesn't leave us feeling good.

[00:06:01] And it's the most popular show on Netflix ever. So, wow. I think that's really interesting. And I do think, though, that I don't know if people – actually, I was going to say maybe the audience for this show would also be like me and be okay if the ending isn't totally happy. But I could be wrong about that. Maybe people really just want Gi-hun to kill all the VIPs and that'll be it. Actually, I wouldn't mind that myself. I got to admit. Exactly.

[00:06:27] I mean, I'm not saying that I – I mean, I just, like you, Jason, the expectation. I've tried to put it out of my head that the show was even coming back so quickly. And I feel like it was just April and we were doing Handmaid's Tale and finishing Yellow Jacket. It's like, oh, Squid Game, that's months away. And now all of a sudden here it is. And I'm excited. But I agree with Veronica too.

[00:06:55] I don't know that I'm emotionally ready for what we may see. But I also am not going to wait. It's like, no, I – the show, I like what the creator has done with it. I like how they have put it together and how they're telling a story that – and including pieces that are not necessarily the norm in Korea. Like, I like that he's pushing boundaries with it. I think that's what we need.

[00:07:23] Like having a Thanos guy in it. Thanos, yes. He was on all the press stuff this time. He did not do the press stuff the last time, but he did it this time. And it's kind of funny because his character died, but – Right. But this show has maybe rehabilitated his reputation in Korea. Absolutely. All right. Well, we should probably get into it.

[00:07:49] I'm going to read a season two summary first just because people might want to be refreshed. It's kind of a high-level summary, but I think it'll be good to orient us where we are. So, Squid Game season two picks up with Song Yi Hoon refusing to flee the country and instead committing himself to taking down the games from within. He tracks the recruiter and confirms the operation is active again.

[00:08:14] Meanwhile, the front man, In Ho, continues to oversee a new round of lethal competitions even as fractures appear in his authority. Detective Jun Ho, long-presumed dead, resurfaces and begins working with allies to locate and expose the games. A fresh group of players, including the calculating – it says MG coin, but what is his name? Myung – What's the guy's name? Myungi. Myungi.

[00:08:59] Myungi. Under the pressure of seven new childhood-themed death games, a resistance begins to take shape from within. The season is marked by brutal losses, including Young Mi's heartbreaking death and Jung Bae's betrayal by In Ho. By the finale, Gi-hun's sabotage effort is crushed, In Ho regains control, and Jun Ho's investigation remains in limbo, leaving the pieces in place for an explosive conclusion in season three. I feel like that wasn't the best summary, honestly.

[00:09:28] Was there anything that really stood out in season two that you feel like should be mentioned before we get into the first episode of three? Well, it didn't really even mention Thanos, and I feel like he was such a big part of it!

[00:09:42] I mean, he was a character that I – honestly, I don't really like villains on shows usually, but he was just so wild and all crazy. He was fun to watch. He was so fun to watch, and I have a feeling that the creators probably wish they hadn't killed him off.

[00:10:09] I liked in this episode when Nam-Yu was mimicking him, and I'm like, oh, that sounds just like him. Yeah. Good job. Yeah, Thanos was definitely polarizing, I think, as a character. And I think he's someone that, even as a bad guy, people just loved him. They loved the portrayal. They thought he was over the top, but they liked it.

[00:10:35] It's like – have you seen Lady Dimitrescu from Resident Evil Village? She's this Victorian giant vampirist with big boobs, and she was just the first boss in the game, but she became this huge popular character, and I'm sure they wish they hadn't killed her off.

[00:10:56] And then I'm thinking of – I'm kind of spoiling things, but there's different characters like that that you don't realize how great they're going to be, and you're like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have killed him off. Exactly. I think that's why they brought T.O.P., which is the guy that played Thanos.

[00:11:13] I feel like that's why they had him come and do the press junket this time, is because he was so popular, he ended up in a commercial with Martha Stewart, which was kind of fun, like just promotional material. But, I mean, I feel like that synopsis summed it up mostly for what happened. Yeah, people should have watched it, so hopefully that refreshed your memory. You know what?

[00:11:42] There's a ton of those recap videos, and if you really need to, I know this great podcast you could listen to. You could just go back and listen to – it's only, what, six episodes anyway? Seven episodes? I mean, it wasn't a long season. Seven, so – Yeah. I mean, this really felt like coming back after a mid-season finale, didn't it? It did. This episode. Absolutely. It's one season. Two and three are one season. Okay, well, let's read the plot summary for this episode. Veronica, would you like to read that? Sure.

[00:12:12] The episode plunges us into the brutal aftermath of the failed rebellion. Kang No-ul, the North Korean guard, wounds player 246. Gyeong-seok, to spare his life. Gyeong-seok, then infiltrates the organ trafficking operation with ruthless resolve to rescue him and the doctor.

[00:12:30] Gi-hun, returned to the dormitory in a coffin, is mute and shaken, only to learn that all his fellow rebels, except Cho Hyun-ju and Kang Dae-ho, have been killed, deepening his survivor's guilt. A new vote to end the game fails, and Gi-hun lashes out at Dae-ho, furious over his failure to act during the revolt. Outside, Jun-ho's team resumes their island search using drones, while Wu-seok quietly investigates Captain Park.

[00:13:00] In-ho, the frontman, warns Park to eliminate them if necessary. The players are herded into a savage new game, a deadly version of hide-and-seek, where one group hunts with knives, and the other must hide and find keys to escape. Yong-sik and Myung-gi flip roles with Gyeong-ja? That's how I say it. I am so sorry for all listeners. I'm really trying, I promise.

[00:13:25] Okay, so they flip roles, choosing this time to become the Hunters, and then the game begins. As the episode ends, and I was thinking about you, Daphne, at this part, I'm like, man, this must be really hard not to just go on. So what do you think of it, Daphne? Did you think it was a good one? I'm all in and ready for episode two. They do this, they like to make you get too into it, you get to the end of the episode, and you immediately are like,

[00:13:53] oh, well, I'll just watch the beginning of the next one, so I can see what happens, but then you're sucked in. So no, I did not watch ahead, I just basically said, okay, we're done, prep, and then I'll watch it after we record. I really loved it. I think they've set things up really well. I think it's incredibly brutal. I like that they're continuing to shift and show different games, and we're getting to see even more innovation.

[00:14:21] And brutality coming forward. And I'm nervous for our characters that we like, because I just don't. Yeah, we're about to see some. Yeah. Someone's going to die in this. Something brutal. At least one person, I feel like, has to. Yeah.

[00:14:41] And it's sad, because this show, they do such a great job of making you care, even if you look at the characters being in this game and wondering, you know, what type of people are they? They're so desperate that they've ended up in this game, and they try to get you to look at their flaws. But then you also get to know them, and you don't want anything to happen to them.

[00:15:07] And so now, again, we're coming into it, and I'm, Veronica, the emotion. I'm not sure I'm emotionally ready to let go of them. Yeah. What did you think, Veronica? Yeah, I thought it was good. I just feel like it set me up to really feel like this next episode is going to be a gut punch. I mean, as they were doing the balls, I was like, the way they're setting this up, we're losing half the players.

[00:15:36] Like, there would not be this drama on the splitting into teams if we weren't losing half. And then, of course, you very quickly realize that's the only way out is that at least half of them are going to die. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, they continue to somehow continue to surprise and raise the stakes in different ways. That was my biggest worry about going past season one was that they wouldn't be able to keep that level of surprise.

[00:16:02] And I don't know, there was something that caught all of our attention that first season. And I thought on first watch, it's just the shocking brutality. But on second and third watch, as we podcasted on it, it's much, much deeper than that. And they've been able to continue that deeper through line, I think, in this episode really hit, I think, on some deep aspects of human emotion that I enjoyed. And set us up for a scary start to the next episode, I think.

[00:16:32] Mm-hmm. Yeah, it hits on a bunch of different levels. I was, as you were just talking, you know, you said half, at least half the people are going to have to die. I hadn't really considered that. But, yeah, the rule of the game is if you're on the hiding team, the blue team, and you hide past 30 minutes or escape, then you live. But if you're on the red team, you have to either kill someone or you die.

[00:16:59] So that means for every member, however many people there are, there's 60 left, right? So at least 30 people have to die. But I was thinking just now, if someone on the red team kills more than one person, then that actually makes them kind of selfish. That means that they're killing one person on the other team, but also one person on their team.

[00:17:24] Because that means one person on their team will have, it's like musical chairs, you took more than one chair. But, you know, I could see they might do that anyway because they want everyone else to die. Yeah, like you want to win faster. So one person might kill like 10 people, you know, and then they'll also knock off nine people from their own team too. Yeah. So fun to think about. No, I'm just kidding. All right. What's your fucked up moment of the week, Daphne?

[00:17:54] I'm just going to continue this discussion. I think it's the game itself. Putting people in this position, especially because we have people that are connected, like Junhee. Yeah, Junhee and Byungi. He's the father of her child, and she's very pregnant and I think getting close to giving birth. We also have a mother and son in Gyeongja and Yongsik.

[00:18:24] It took me back to the marbles. Mm-hmm. Yeah. This felt like that more than any other game. It did. And I think I connected a little bit with that emotion again. And it brought that forward, which is why I'm dying to watch episode two now, because I have to know how it ends, even though it's probably going to rip my heart out. But I think that game is pretty fucked up.

[00:18:50] And I think it just upped the stakes in a way that this show has continued to do this season. It's making things more intense. Mm-hmm. This was a good one as far as level of fucked upness and just the fact that it's kind of a combination of hide and seek and tag. And those are two games as Americans that we're all very familiar with. I think people are, yeah, I think people are going to relate to it. Yeah.

[00:19:17] I think people will definitely connect with it as games that we've played. Not to these stakes, but. Most of us, yeah. Veronica, I'm not so sure. I was trying to decide what I felt like was the most fucked up moment. I actually have a few contenders, but I think I'm going to land on sending Gi-hoon back in in the coffin.

[00:19:41] Because I think that In-ho knew that was a fate worse than death for Gi-hoon to be faced with the guilt, the survivor's guilt. And so I thought that was pretty fucked up that not only they didn't, not only that he didn't kill him in the moment and that he kept him in the games, not threw him in some holding cell to torture or something, but he put him back in the games and sent him in a coffin. I thought that was, yeah, pretty.

[00:20:11] And then he's sitting there with his whiskey, just delighting in the whole thing, it seems like. He's a puppet master. Yeah. Yeah. This is his joy. How did he get to this point where he was a player in the game and survived? And sadistic. Yeah. Was he already like this or have those tendencies ahead of time? I'm curious about that. I hope maybe we'll get an answer. I don't, I don't know. It could be just something that never comes up. Yeah. Jason, what about-

[00:20:40] Even in the coffin, it seemed like too that something in him died after this. So that was part of it too. What about me? I mean, the first thing for me is what you said, Daphne, just finding out the rules of hide and seek, you know? Because you kind of know, you kind of know it's not just going to be tag, but still when they say the last part where, oh yeah, and then you're going to have to kill him. It's like, Jesus Christ.

[00:21:08] Honestly, it took me to Walking Dead when the outpost in Walking Dead with Glenn and that dilemma about what he should do when they were at the Savior's outpost. Oh, yeah. It took me to that. I was like, oh my God. Lately, that's what's been happening with me with TV is I'll watch something and it takes me to a place where I've already built up these feelings. And so it kind of connects with that again.

[00:21:35] But I think, yeah, agreed. I do have another contender for Fucked Up. Well, I have another contender. It's that I just thought it was pretty fucked up of the old guy, Player 100, to lead all the O's in a round of applause for Gi-hun for having gotten a bunch of the exes killed. Yes. Absolutely. You're asking for it. You are. And I'm kind of waiting for his demise. Yeah.

[00:22:05] I would trade him to be gone for us to have Thanos back because it would be more entertaining. This guy, though, he's a good antagonist because he's someone that you want to go. Like, you're like, okay, take him out. That's fine. Yeah. My runner-up Fucked Up moment was the fucking continued sexual harassment of guard number 11. What's her name? Noel. Oh, that greasy guy.

[00:22:33] After he and his buddies threatened to rape her halfway through last season and have harassed her, then being like, I know a spot to her on the way down. I just, oh, I wanted her to kill him right then. Like, I know she needed him to get her to the surgery suite and I know she took him down, but it was just like, I don't know.

[00:22:55] It made me, it just made me sick on top of, I mean, everything in the show makes me, I'm not saying the other, like, gruesome things aren't terrible, but I just wanted to kick him down the stairs. I applauded, honestly, when she took them all out and the way that she took him out was great. Just tell, he wanted to know why I left. Here's why I left. I loved it. Because my commander was just like you. Yep. Boom.

[00:23:21] And that sort of reminds me of the VIPs just wanting to grab any underling and take them in and make them do sexual things. Yeah, it's, the show is not subtle about that kind of thing. It's almost cartoony, but it still hits. It's like, ugh.

[00:23:41] Yeah, my runner up, honestly, was Inho telling Captain Park to keep them off the island and if they don't, to take them all out, including the detective, his own brother. Yeah. I thought that was pretty fucked up. But not as much as the game. The game itself was by far, but. Yeah. I think we talked already about some pretty fucked up things.

[00:24:34] Hey Sandra, we have us yeah long before. Let's get into our points. Uh, Veronica, wanna go first? Uh, sure. So this is probably my biggest point and I think it's been a big theme of the show, but particularly this episode, which is guilt and I guess shame as well. Um, and so obviously this whole episode was a watching Gi-hun process survivor's guilt.

[00:24:58] Um, but I feel like that through line has driven a lot of our characters throughout the show. I mean, I actually think Inho and his path to where he is now was driven by guilt because after he won the game, his wife was already dead.

[00:25:14] Um, and so I just think it's interesting and I feel like, I don't know when I think about guilt, I often think about sort of the withdrawal from other people and the, the inward emotions that happen with guilt, um, and the depression and sort of the sadness.

[00:25:31] But we were watching Gi-hun do all that, but we were also seeing this other presentation, which is the outward projection of his guilt, which came through anger and through this desire to shift the blame off of himself, shift some of that guilt. And, um, you know, I'm not saying it wasn't somewhat warranted when, um, the shaman of the sea came and taunted him.

[00:25:58] Um, I can definitely understand his response in choking her. Um, but you know, that's the really one of the, that's the most aggressive thing I feel like, or one of the most aggressive things we've really seen Gi-hun do, or at least like personally aggressive, actually like choking her. Um, but then throughout the episode, what was the most ominous and is up there on another fucked up moment of the week for me is his growing anger towards Dae-ho.

[00:26:28] And certainly Dae-ho let them down in, in not going back to get the ammo, but you know, he didn't, he didn't sign some agreement. It was sort of off the plan. Like, I'm not saying it's okay that he was a coward, but he didn't go out and actively turn on his mates and, and shoot them. Um, and I think Gi-hun is looking for a way to absolve himself of the guilt and the role that he feels he played in their demise and shift it all into Dae-ho.

[00:26:59] And, um, I don't know, I was just trying to think about how often that happens in our daily lives too, in our current society, when there is a feeling of, I think, I think it brought to mind for me often just like the reaction to accusations of doing things that are racist. And you suddenly feel like somehow, um, I think you often see a white person's response to sort of this whole topic of racism as immediately defensive.

[00:27:28] And then often that turns to anger and almost doubling down. And it was just interesting to see, obviously this is in the show has nothing to do with the theme of racism, but just this idea of an angry reaction to a feeling of guilt. Um, I don't know. I'm curious if your thoughts on sort of how Gi-hun is trying to direct all of his anger towards Dae-ho and how much of that you think is really deserved in this situation.

[00:27:58] And then, yeah, just reflecting on sort of the detrimental impact of anger being a result of internalized guilt. I think, you know, in this kind of a situation, I like to try to get into the heads of each side.

[00:28:18] And if you're Gi-hun, like his plan was very risky and the worst part about it was it required a lot of people to be killed just in the battle in the first place in the dorm room. But, but, you know, Dae-ho is screaming at him in this episode. You got them all killed. We should have just fought against the other, the exes.

[00:28:45] And, and I'm like, no, because even though Gi-hun's plan was risky, it was the only choice to get out of this and to, for the real bad guys to get what they deserved. Even though there was a small chance of it working, that was the only thing to do if you wanted real justice, you know, and, and Dae-ho maybe ruined that.

[00:29:11] He, if he had brought the ammo back, then maybe they would have had a chance. You don't know though. You really don't know. But I can totally understand Gi-hun deciding you fucked this up and that you're the reason why we're, we're in this position.

[00:29:29] Um, but you know, what you said makes some amount of sense to that, um, Gi-hun, he probably is feeling guilty that all of this happened and wants to displace all of it onto Dae-ho. And Dae-ho might be right. It might not have mattered anyway. So Gi-hun doesn't know that for sure. And it's, it's, it's just the easiest thing to do to just, and the interesting thing about it is he's so like deflated after this failure. And he's almost looks like he said, just kill me.

[00:29:56] You know, he's trying to get them to kill and he was almost looks like he could just lay down and die. But the only thing that animates him is his hatred towards Dae-ho. And that's like the only thing keeping him going. So that's sort of interesting. And I can't wait to see what happens. It's a great story point. But as far as like, if it's like healthy, I don't think it's healthy, but I do understand it. Yeah. So I just kind of talked all around it. I realized that it's complicated. No. Yeah. It definitely is. Yeah. I mean, I don't think Dae-ho was right either.

[00:30:26] I saw his actions as the exact same thing that Gi-hun was doing, which is I feel internally guilty about this. I hate that I feel guilty. I don't like sitting with that uncomfortable feeling. I don't really even want to like own it enough to apologize. So I'm going to get angry at this other person.

[00:30:44] And so much so that like you saw as he was walking over to confront Gi-hun before the games, that he was muttering to himself, like working himself up, almost like trying to convince himself that he believed that it was all Gi-hun's fault. And I feel like Gi-hun was doing the same thing to Dae-ho. Yeah. And like everybody, you know, has things they sort of messed up on with this and it was a flawed plan.

[00:31:12] And like, I'm not saying Dae-ho, like he's a coward and let people that were counting on him down. I'm definitely not a defense of him, but I don't think shifting all the blame to him is appropriate either. Yeah.

[00:31:28] It's like when a politician, a presidential candidate loses, and then sometimes you hear all the operatives in the campaign start blaming each other or, you know, because they're on the losing side. If you're on the winning side, it's easier to have a united front. But if you're on the losing side, then you might say, well, I tried to talk about doing it this way or whatever. That wasn't a good candidate. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a really tricky place to be in when you're dealing with guilt.

[00:31:57] And you know that Gi-hun has had not only this particular situation, but what he had before with everyone that died, his good friend and, you know, the people that he got connected to when he did play the game. So I think what happened with this is also connecting him back to those feelings. And honestly, Dae-ho, that pulled him out of it.

[00:32:21] I think his, like, going over and firing off at him, like, reactivated something in Gi-hun that needed to be reactivated. He needed to snap out of where he was because it's not going to help him get out of this. And there are still people alive if he wants to try to save them. Like, he can do that.

[00:32:47] And Dae-ho, to me, is an enigma because obviously he lied about something. He did not really know how to fire a gun. Why he had that tattoo, I don't know. And the reaction on his face when they're walking up the stairs and all of the people from Gi-hun's little uprising are hanging. Yeah. That hit him. Like, he...

[00:33:16] I think he realized what the ramifications of what he had done. And I think there's more information that we don't have yet about him that will probably come to light about why he lied about his experience. If I had to choose a side, and I wouldn't want to have to choose a side, but I would tend to be more on Gi-hun's side, I think. Yeah. Since Dae-ho is the one that flubbed it. And yeah, he probably lied.

[00:33:45] And so they expected more out of him because of the way he presented himself, which was... Exactly. ...seems like it was a lie. But I don't know. I'm curious to see how it's all going to play out. Veronica, you just asked if we think Gi-hun would kill him. I think he's going to. What do you think that means about Gi-hun's character? I mean, has he fully lost the path that he's on if he goes in and kills Dae-ho? Because it's more about just survival if he targets Dae-ho in this next game.

[00:34:15] That's deeper than survival. It's anger and vengeance. Yeah. Yeah, maybe because that seems like what's going to happen, but maybe he'll listen to his better angels or something. And they'll help each other. I doubt it, though. I don't know. I think it's very... This game is very complicated because I've been running numbers in my head trying to figure out how people can survive.

[00:34:40] Like, the ones that we have grown to care for and it just doesn't compute in there. So, I don't know. I don't know. All right. What should we talk about next? Well, I feel like we have to rip the band-aid off and talk more about the game because there's something that I wanted to point out. When they were giving off the rules, they're talking about the keys and the knives.

[00:35:10] The red team is not allowed to kill each other. But they didn't say that someone on the blue team couldn't grab a knife and kill someone on the red team. Right. I bet you that happens. That was... I just have a feeling. It could happen just out of, like, preservation. That's what I'd be trying to do if I got caught. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Try to kill them. Because you just have to survive. Yeah. If you're on the blue team.

[00:35:39] And Gyumja has that secret weapon of hers. Yeah, the Chekhov's hair clip. Yeah. So, I'm like, okay. Because the conversations that were going on between her and her son about who should... Should they switch? Because he wanted to be the one that had to go in there with the idea in mind of killing someone. Because he didn't think his mother could do it.

[00:36:05] And they opened up a bit and talked about her husband, his father, beating her and saying that he was going to kill her. And it just endeared me more to them. And so my heart is already, like, one of both of them is going to die. And I'm not ready for it. But they have this really... Like, it brought emotions up in me. This heart-to-heart, trying to decide what to do.

[00:36:35] So, Myungi and Junhee had a similar heart-to-heart. Although, it was different. They were talking about... You know, at first she tells him to mind his own business. And she'll take care of herself. And I, at the moment, watching that thought, well, he's really underestimating her. Because I think she's a lot more capable than he thinks she is. Although she is pregnant, I think she's still able to, like, defend herself.

[00:37:04] And, but he doesn't think she can kill anyone. And whereas he can just go in and take them out fast, come find her and they'll get out. But he said to her, he'd kill everyone there if it meant that he could win the money and leave with her and the baby. And I think that affected her. Like, so you could just kill people. Like, I think she was a little bit shocked by that.

[00:37:31] But then, at the end, when they're going in, we see that Kim Ja and Young Sik have indeed switched places. And at the last minute, Junhee and Myungi have switched places. So, I mean, I hope it doesn't come back to bite them. But it could. Well, and she's going possibly into labor right now, it seemed like.

[00:38:00] Yeah, maybe that was one reason why she's like, eh, maybe I'll try it out. I just had my first set of contractions. Yeah, maybe hiding's the right idea. Yeah. I mean, she was really lucky. Player 120, Hyunju, saw her, saw Gyeongja and pulled them up into a place, was trying to help them hide.

[00:38:22] And so I'm like, okay, so Gyeong's team of people, his little group, some of them are still working together. So I was happy about that. I was not expecting that they were going to have to kill. That they physically were going to have to do it. Because usually it's the guards take them out or, you know, you have to find someone. That's what makes it extra fucked up. Yeah. So that's what I was expecting.

[00:38:52] And I mean, I wasn't expecting that twist. But then the name of the episode is Keys and Knives. So I'm like, well, okay, there's the keys. Where's the, oh, God. And so it all starts unraveling. With this show, with the episode titled Keys and Knives, I'm thinking, okay, people are going to have to stab each other with keys and knives. Yep. I'm like, keys are not going to work very well. I mean, I'm looking at my own car key sitting here right now. And a lot of, like, car keys are now just fobs anyway.

[00:39:22] But even my house key, I'm like. Yeah, that would work so well. That might help me get away from someone. But it's not going to do a lot of damage. So I'm not sure about that. But even the way that they had them pick which side they were on using the gumball machine. Like, they're really, like, pulling out childhood memories. Yeah, I love that.

[00:39:45] But also I loved it because the show, this season has been all about polarization and how people are grouping together with people more like them. And so this way of choosing the two separate teams is completely random, which means you're probably going to be on a team with someone who you're not wanting to be on. Although then they added that extra twist where you got to change places if you want to. But I wanted to know which side you guys would rather be on. Oh, man.

[00:40:15] I think for some reason I was leaning towards red just because the idea of being the prey felt scarier and like I would be more likely to panic in the moment. But then I don't know if faced in the moment unless there had been someone, even if there was someone. I mean, I was trying to think, like, if there was someone I really hated, like the old man number 100. Playing 100. Yep. But like, even then. I don't think I could.

[00:40:44] Like, stabbing someone with a knife. I mean, that's even like pulling a gun. Maybe you can dissociate slightly more from it. But that's up close and personal. And you have to really mean it. I just don't know if I could do it. I think I'd be dead either way. So I guess, I mean, at least with the key, I have the chance that I find an out. But I just can't help thinking, like, none of those are really escape doors. It's just so that you keep thinking you have a hope of a chance.

[00:41:13] Well, I think, like, they didn't say what was behind the doors. They only said you can open it, but you can't lock it. And what I presume is that those are the hiding places. So you can go and it's just a small room. Maybe there'll be some surprises, like a brick wall or something. But it sounds like there's only one escape. And maybe it is behind one of the doors. One of the doors is an escape. Others are hiding places. Others are, like, dangers. You know, who knows? But I think there's only one escape.

[00:41:40] And so I had kind of the same thought process as you. I thought first, well, I'm going to want to be the one with a weapon, clearly. But then I'm like, oh, then I have to kill someone. And I think I'd rather be on the other side just to try to escape. And then if I have to tangle with somebody, I'm going to hope that I can kick them in the nuts and take their knife away and stab them or something. Yeah, and it's self-defense instead of aggression. Right. Right. Like if someone's coming at you.

[00:42:04] And I mean, best scenario, the person in the absolute best position is the mom because she has a weapon. Yeah. And she can use it in self-defense, but she doesn't have to hunt anyone. She just has to defend herself and survive for 30 minutes. So like. It's a long time. I want to be on the blue team, but I want a sneaky hair weapon. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you need. I want to cheat. It's life and death. But like just a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

[00:42:35] You think about the hiding places. That's where I'm landing because I don't think I could do it unless it was self-defense. I don't think I could. Hunt someone down. Yeah. I don't think I could. I mean, I don't even play killer in Dead by Daylight. Okay. I play survivor and I get killed way too much. Way too many times. I don't play Dead by Daylight because it freaks me out. I don't like being hunted or being the hunter. It's so rough. This is very Dead by Daylight, isn't it?

[00:43:04] It is. It's very Dead by Daylight. It's a bit Hunger Games too, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It is. It's scary. Like the whole thing is just, I mean, the hunter or the hunted and it really is like Dead by Daylight. You're either the killer or the survivor. And you hope when you play Dead by Daylight that you have people like Hyunju that are going to help you hide. But sometimes if you're playing with other random players, like Amelie and I have done

[00:43:34] sometimes, we have each other's back and that's it. Like the other players are not helping us. On purpose or just because they're not as good? Um, one, they could be new players or two, there have been really assholes basically that play and they won't help you. So we have each other's back and we burn like things or pick perks based on, okay, we're going

[00:44:00] into this game and we've got to find a way to survive. So I'm going to go now. So, um, wait, are you, are you good, Daphne? Oh yeah. I, I'm the, well, the only other thing I would mention is that the way that the, um, the way that things came through were, was very split between people that had been previously like linked together. Like it was, yeah. On who's, who's on whose team. Yeah.

[00:44:30] Yeah. The mother and son. Yeah. Actually that kind of leads into my thing. So the, the hide and seek relationship dynamics, because the rules of the game, which we've already pretty much gone over are fucked up in and of itself. But what made it squid game interesting and sort of harken back to the marble game was when they threw in that extra thing of, you can switch rule roles if there's mutual agreement. And so, yeah, there's Myungi, the crypto guy in June, he, her pregnant ex.

[00:45:00] And earlier he had given her his sweet potato and he had started being nice to her at the end of last season too. And because he's such a fucker and a weasel, it's hard. Like he screwed a lot of people out of their money and everything for me anyway, it was hard. It's hard to trust him, but here he's, you know, offering her his food.

[00:45:25] He's saying, let me, let's switch roles so I can be the hunter and I'll protect you. I know you can't kill anyone. And then he says, I would kill everyone here if it meant leaving with you and that money. I think he said the baby too, but it's kind of romantic. And, and then, um, she says to protect the baby, I would do anything too. And he goes, well, then kill me.

[00:45:54] I'll come find you. You can stab me and get out. If that's true, then he's totally fixed his problem. Like he's sacrificing himself before he, he seemed to ignore her, but now he's totally turned around and, and she decided to trust him. And she says, keep your word. And she trades places. But I'm like, man, if you're not sincere, I don't know what your plan is. Could your plan be so fucked up that you just want to get rid of her and the baby?

[00:46:24] Or do we trust him now? I don't think he's that terrible, terrible of a guy. Like he didn't trick people. My understanding was that he didn't trick people knowingly. He also lost money that he invested through this Bitcoin thing. He just influenced other people to do it. And so he came under fire because they all also lost money because they did what he told

[00:46:49] them, but he also lost that money and was in hiding because he was under attack. That was my understanding. He was dismissive of her too. At first. I think he was surprised. I think he, she had been like, he went into hiding. Then once by the time he was trying to reach out, she was like, well, you've ignored me for too long. Yeah. Well, didn't he want her to get an abortion?

[00:47:17] I think she told him that she was getting an abortion. And so he didn't even know that she was still pregnant with the baby. Yeah. I don't think, like, I don't think he was like a great guy. Like he did sort of leave her in the lurch, but like, I don't think he was like a terrible, terrible dude. Like, I think he means this. I do think he cares about her. I trust him. Yeah, I think so too.

[00:47:40] I think that he, um, I think that he was probably shocked, surprised to see her still pregnant because he thought she got an abortion. So I, I, I am leaning towards trusting him too, just like her, but I feel like I might be Charlie Brown running up, trying to kick that football at the same time. So we'll see. Definitely possible. Both of you.

[00:48:08] But then the other two, uh, well, two other ones, Goomja, the mom and Youngsik, the son. And it was a nice conversation, but I also felt like the way they were saying it, it was almost like they were slamming each other. Like, she's like, when you're a kid, you always let the other kids beat you up like a fool. You never hurt anyone. Not even once. I was like, damn. And then he goes, oh yeah, well, dad beat you all the time and you couldn't even fight back. It wasn't said like that, but that's how it felt to me a little bit.

[00:48:38] But you know, they're just. Could you imagine having an argument with someone like, oh yeah, will you let your husband beat me? That's what it. But no. Like, no, that is. I think that their dynamic has been really interesting to watch like grow throughout this because they didn't even know each other was going to be on it. And then suddenly there they are. Yeah. And he's sort of betrayed her a few times throughout. Yeah.

[00:49:04] In the voting and then in sort of leaving her to not have a group for the room. After the whole mingle game. Uh, but so she agrees to the trade and then, um, he says the same thing to her that. Myungi proposed to June. He I'll kill someone quickly and then I'll come find you and protect you. And I'm thinking, okay, if you're a hunter, a red protecting a blue from other reds, you're

[00:49:33] not allowed to kill any of them or else you're, you're going to die. We presume they didn't spell that out, but they just said you're not allowed to. So that'll be tricky. To do. Um, it'll also be tricky. How does everyone, like, I thought it was a little unrealistic of them to be like, we'll find each other in there. Like what, how, how are you going to magically, or, you know, find each other before someone else finds you? I thought that was.

[00:50:01] They've got those luggage tags that you put on your bags. Of course. Yeah. The air tags. That's how they're going to do it. And then last, um, is Gi-hun and Dae-ho, the dynamics between them. Um, I thought, you know, so Gi-hun is red and Dae-ho is blue and Gi-hun just keeps staring at him with this death stare and like, I'm going to get you.

[00:50:27] And then Dae-ho is frantically trying to switch with the red, this woman saying, I'll protect you. And, but he's so like, just frazzled and not, he's lost his shit. He doesn't have his shit together and she doesn't trust him and no one trusts him. And I wouldn't trust him either. Honestly, I would not trust him. He's, he's just trying to get a knife so he can protect himself from Gi-hun and he, that's going to be his first thing.

[00:50:54] Then he goes right over and yells at Gi-hun and we wouldn't have won anyway. All the things that you and I already talked, we already talked about Veronica. Well, they all saw him come back and what happened that he didn't go. So why would you, why would you believe him? No, you can't. And then, um, at the end when Gi-hun, he's like very much in a red team kind of a mood. He's just saying, it's your fault. And I think that was the only thing he said this episode. It was a good ending.

[00:51:24] So quiet for Gi-hun. Okay. So quiet. I did wonder what might play out with, um, Min-su. I forget what number he is, but the one who was a bit like of a coward and watched the girl be murdered by the club kid number 124. Yeah. And then 124 was hot, taunting Min-su. And I was like, these might be like, this might be the moment we see Min-su finally break

[00:51:54] and kill another red teammate and go after number 124. Nyam-gyu. He is actually number 125, Min-su. Oh, 125. Yeah. Oh, oh, okay. Oh, yeah. And Nyam-gyu is 124. So they're right next to each other. Um, yeah, that was something too. That was a situation where Nyam-gyu was imitating Thanos. Like, you can do it. Like, it was just like this weird, I'm like, is it in the drugs? Is that what it's in?

[00:52:25] Why does he chew his drugs? You're going to get chemical bitterness. They're not candy. They look like candy. They're not candy. You just swallow it. You don't chew it. He's getting dangerously low too. He only has four left. So. You're not going to need him, I predict. No, because I think he's going out in a blaze of glory, maybe. He's got a very punchable face. Yes, he does. Okay, Veronica, your turn.

[00:52:55] I just wondered, do you guys have any other predictions about things that will happen? Like, I think that the mom is going to end up sacrificing herself for her son. I think we're going to have a situation where she holds his hand and plunges the knife into herself. Like, I think that's what's going to happen. I think Min-su might crack and go after Nam-gu. I think Gi-hun is going to try to kill Dae-ho.

[00:53:23] But I really wonder if in the moment he won't be able to do it. I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know if he will either. Like, I don't see Gi-hun as like a killer. Like, I don't see him wanting to actually do, like, go through with that act. He may be changing, though. So I could see him killing somebody to, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. I just want to wildly speculate. I'm not good at predicting.

[00:53:55] Okay. I'll talk about Wu Siok and the captain. Choi. Choi. Choi. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, my money was not on him being the guy to figure out that the captain work is. Yeah, no, anything at all. Right? That's, like, perfect. And, like, so obviously he goes to Jun-ho and Jun-ho is not listening to him. And I was like, but I can't blame Jun-ho.

[00:54:22] Like, as an audience observer, I'm screaming, listen to him, idiot. It's so obvious. But in the reality of things, like, I would not listen to this guy either. And I think Jun-ho was like, like, bro, you were the one drinking heavily that night. Like, do I trust you? Like, it was so valid. Well played on the show. Because it's exactly how I felt. Like, oh, come on. It's so frustrating. But, yeah. I think I'd probably see it Jun-ho's way, too. But he even clocked. He was like, tell me how you met this guy.

[00:54:52] Like, he was even, like, questioning the way Jun-ho met the captain. Like, what we've all been saying of, like, how did this guy just happen to be there to pick him up out of the ocean at just the right moment? Like, I've been questioning that. And I think, you know, now we see Chewie doing it. And then at the end, I'm curious who his old friend is, who used to be, you know, obviously work for his old boss.

[00:55:18] So he used to be somewhat in the criminal enterprise world and said he's straightened his life out now. But I'm curious why he reached out to that guy and what that guy's skill set is with that van he drives around that's going to help him hopefully, you know, bring Captain Park down. I just like that he's like, the boss is dead. Oh, what happened? Oh, you know that game Rock, Paper, Scissors, Minus One? And then he's like, starts to explain it.

[00:55:48] And then he's like, never mind. But then as they're driving away, he's like, wait, so you can die during that game? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I, the other thing too, I mean, it ups the stakes knowing now that Inho has cleared the way of, like, to the captain, you can kill my brother. You can kill Junho if you need to.

[00:56:13] And I didn't read that scene of the front man of Inho as enjoying his drink the same way we've seen him enjoy his drink in the past season. He seemed shaken. Yeah. I think he's validated in his viewpoint and has doubled down. And I think that's why he's like, yeah, take my brother out and nothing matters.

[00:56:39] But that makes me wonder if he did have curiosity about Gi-hun's approach. And if he did really wonder, is Gi-hun right? You know, is there a chance that I'm wrong about this? And I think he's now doubled down into that he's right. But I don't think he likes that he's right. Yeah.

[00:57:00] I think I have a prediction now about how this whole thing might end because I don't think it's going to end with Gi-hun necessarily killing all the VIPs. Although it could. And it's not going to solve all the world's problems that Squid Game is sort of a metaphor for are not going to be solved. But I think it could end with In-ho saying, oh, okay, Gi-hun, you were right. Maybe as he's dying or something like that. You know, being convinced.

[00:57:29] I feel like that might be how it ends. To me, that would feel satisfying too. Because I think knowing In-ho was in the games originally and knowing he was probably not always this corrupt, you know, person who took delight in other suffering makes him a more interesting character and would, I think, be a nice evolution of the themes of the show if we land there.

[00:57:58] And it'll basically be In-ho saying, yes, things are fucked and then dying. Yeah. But it was interesting too to me that In-ho told the boat captain, don't let them find the island until the games are over. So it's like, okay, so you, does that mean he does want them to find the island at that time and has something in mind for confronting his brother if that happens or something, you know? I don't know. I wondered that too.

[00:58:27] I didn't even think about that. I was just like, oh, he's going to get up and leave and then no one will be there. Yeah, no, I feel like he wants to have a talk with his brother or have some sort of thing and he may have something planned. But once things are done. I mean, he loved his brother enough to get the captain to rescue him. So. Yeah. All right. You got another one, Daphne? Oh, yeah. Cool.

[00:58:56] I feel like we need to talk about Noel and her little trip that she was on. I was thinking of La Femme Nikita. It reminded me of that. Yes. Yes. Yes. For anyone who doesn't know what that is. Google it and then go and watch the whole thing because at least the first few seasons were really interesting for a cable TV show.

[00:59:24] Before cable really blew up and became what it is now. It was on cable, I think. So. So. Dole. Dole. We learn what some of us, I think, or a lot of us were hoping for is that Young Sook is still alive. She shot him in a place that was non-life threatening ish because it didn't really hit anything. Although he did lose a lot of blood. Oh, gross.

[00:59:54] I hated that she had to suck up to that guy, much like you did, Veronica, to kind of find out. Oh, gross. Yeah, to get her way to, you know, the workroom so that she could get access to him. She's taking a huge risk, huge risk to do this.

[01:00:15] Like, we look at her before this, before she went into this job and she's a rabbit or she's dressed up. And she's at this theme park, like all of her money or some of her money is going to this guy to who's working on something for her. And she's risking a lot, including her life. You're not supposed to show anyone your face.

[01:00:41] And she does do that, even though they all had taken their masks off. For her to take her mask off, that is like the number one rule you're not allowed to do. And I had a feeling, even when she put her gun down, that she was going to take them all out. Because she had no choice. Yeah. We knew that's what she was there for. She told the guy, oh, you know what? I decided that if they're going to have to die anyway, it's good to have their organs go to help other people.

[01:01:08] And I'm like, there is some sense in that, but I don't believe you and I think you're going to kill them all. No, because she knew him from before. Yeah. She knew him from theme park and his little daughter is sick and why he's there in the first place. And it seemed like she, I think she kind of, we learned her rationale for feeling like this kind of quote unquote work was okay. Which is that all these people, their lives are miserable.

[01:01:37] We're putting them out of their misery. But now she sees this guy who has a daughter that's dependent on him. And so why should that innocent little girl have to suffer? And she couldn't save her own child. Like that's why she was going to that man and giving all her money to him is she had to leave a child in North Korea. And that child is probably never coming back to her. It's been many years since she's been gone.

[01:02:03] And I would, was sort of picking up that this, I can't save my own child. So can I save this other child who I've developed a bond with and seeing herself probably in that man as a parent and wanting it. But, you know, I think all this is a surrogate for the pain, the guilt, the shame she's feeling about not being able to save her own child. She needs to save him to sort of save herself, I think.

[01:02:33] And I think she looks at him as being a good person. Like he's not like some of the other people that are in there. And so she doesn't want him to fall victim to that fate. And so she's doing what she can. But it's still a big risk, like, for her to do this. So, yeah, I think she looked at him as someone who wasn't like the other people that were there. And so she wanted to do what she could, but it was still a great risk to herself because they could kill her over it. Yeah.

[01:03:03] And so that's the situation that she's in. And so once she decided by shooting him where she did, she had to follow through with it or let them take his organs. And so she went through and I liked her feistiness. I didn't like that she had to talk to the guy, but I liked that she was feisty about it. Like she pushed back at him or was just saying things kind of deflecting.

[01:03:29] And I liked the way that she took the smarmy, slimy guy out by saying, you know what? My, as we said earlier, I had a supervisor just like you once. You want to know why I left North Korea? I shot him in the head. And then boom, and he's gone. And then she's instantly trying to get Hyun-suk's life out of the scale, like trying to see what they can do.

[01:03:58] Going so far as to give him a blood transfusion because she is a typo blood person, so they can. Which is kind of convenient if you think about it. Yeah, it was a little convenient, but okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'll take it because I want him to make it. Yeah. What's she going to do now?

[01:04:21] Like she, they need a better security camera system in here at this place, by the way, so I can tell what all this organ harvesting is going on. But can she get away with this and just walk back out and be like, da-la-di-da. Right. Well, the other people are going to be missing when they do like roll call. Right. They should be like, I don't know. Where are they? Maybe they got drunk and fell out of the boat. Or maybe they thought the count was off in the rebellion, maybe instead of 27 soldiers. They could.

[01:04:51] It was 29 and they just messed up. Yeah. They could very well see that. Maybe like going to have to escape now or something, you know, maybe. I like that she did this. Like, I don't know that it tracks 100% except that she has this connection to him already. And so I want to see what happens. I hope he gets away. I don't know that he will, but I'm glad that she went through with it because I wasn't sure what she was, what she was doing.

[01:05:19] But people have been talking for months about this ever since season two ended, about the likelihood of him being still alive because of who he is. And they didn't show him dying. Right. And her gun barely knocked down. And so there's always a reason if they don't show them actually dying. Yeah. I think it kind of tracks because she, her whole story has been about killing the people that the organ harvesters were trying to keep alive. True.

[01:05:49] That is true. Because she very much has this, her own moral code of why she's there. And that did not comport with that. So she was, you know, so she's very much like whatever her morals are, she's going to follow those and not compromise on them at all. I think. Okay. I want to talk about the, the continuing societal metaphor of squid game.

[01:06:18] And I just was like, okay, what did I think this was again? I probably said this a lot on the podcast, but it's a metaphor for modern society where the rich and powerful set everyone else against each other, fighting for scraps and suffering. And then they use the idea that anyone can become just as wealthy as they are as a way to keep us all invested in the system, even though that's unlikely. And most will die trying. I think that's kind of what skid game, skid game.

[01:06:49] That's a spinoff. I thought, you know what, Jason? I thought that that sounds like America today. Come on. Yeah. Right. It's America today. I mean, it's kind of messed up. And just in this episode, right? So they find out that 35 players were eliminated in this coup attempt. 60 remain. Most of them are O's because the O's just sat on their asses and did nothing.

[01:07:15] And the prize money is now at 39.6 billion won. That's $29 million about, or 483,000 each if they all decided to go home. But there's another vote and there's way more O's left now. And even the first voter, 448, she was an ex, so she had voted to leave. And they had some players telling her, you can vote however you want. We won't hurt you.

[01:07:42] I think the reason why that's in there, I mean, you can't really trust them. But I think the point is that they wanted to show that she voted O, not because she was afraid of the repercussions, but because she's given up hope. You know? Like Gi-hun. He doesn't even bother voting. They're just like, the system is so rigged against me that it doesn't matter. Nothing matters anymore. That's what they want. Yeah. That's what they want. Yeah, they want you to give up fighting. Yeah.

[01:08:10] And so then they go out and they see the bloody corpses of the ex who died in the coup hanging in the stairway. And the announcer says, you're witnessing the fate of those who refuse the democratic process of voting and instead attempted to stop the game using violent means. We will not tolerate any irrational behavior which attempts to destroy the fair rules of this game. And such actions will be punished in accordance with our strict standards. We thank you again for your cooperation.

[01:08:40] So that really fits in with this whole thing that the powers that be insist things are fair and democratic when really the wealthy control everything and they use their power to keep themselves in power and keep everyone else down. And so to kind of relate it to the real world, I mean, I think one of the biggest travesties that happened in the United States is this citizens united Supreme Court decision in 2010, which allowed

[01:09:07] corporations and wealthy people to spend unlimited amounts on political campaigns, pushing us more in this direction where the wealthy have control. The richest Americans, Elon Musk is buying elections or trying to anyway, and having disproportionate influence over elections and policy making. Um, and, and even like Trump now, like he's trying to lower taxes for the richest Americans, which will put us trillions of dollars in debt while at the same time making cuts to Medicaid and food stamps.

[01:09:36] It's a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich, making the powerful, more powerful, entrenching them in their power. And I mean, just straight up corruption. He accepted this $400 million luxury jet from Qatar. And now, I mean, the worst is he has this crypto coin, the dollar Trump, whatever it is. And it, because that's unregulated, people can, um, buy into that, which anytime anyone

[01:10:03] buys it, Trump and the Trump family make money, whether the Trump coin goes up or down. Uh, recently there's this UAE backed investment fund. They bought tens of millions of dollars worth of this coin. And then not long after that, Trump suddenly reversed his position on a national security policy, lifting export restrictions on advanced AI chips and rules that were put in place to stop sensitive technology from getting into the hands of potentially hostile governments.

[01:10:30] Trump had previously supported those restrictions, but after the UAE money started flowing in through his coin, he changed his mind. And so it's really hard not to see that as foreign policy being influenced and maybe even just outright bought through cryptocurrency, though he's using his position to get wealthier and more powerful, possibly at the expense of the security of our country. And it's just those kinds of injustices and power entrenchment and things like that, that

[01:10:59] birthed this series. And if you think it's just some story that has nothing to do with anything, it's not. It's not. It isn't. Meanwhile, pitting the X's and O's against each other, making them think that their voting is what matters and that, you know, they should just continue to fight amongst themselves and not pay attention to what's going on with who's really controlling them. And it's a distraction.

[01:11:25] It's such a great smoke and mirrors distraction to keep everyone just focused on these little things here so you don't see what's going on behind the curtain. Right. And there's this, like, there's the holding up like a carrot, like you could win the lottery or have a good business idea and strike it rich and become just as wealthy and powerful as us.

[01:11:50] And yes, that is a possibility, a very, very small possibility, but most people don't reach that. And it's not worth it to keep most people suffering in order to keep that system going the way it is right now. And I think that's what in ho he's like, see, no, it is possible. Cause I, I did it. And that's why he's so entrenched in the idea that the system is great as it is.

[01:12:17] But I suspect maybe he'll change his mind by the end of it, but who knows? Who knows? I want to know how he got to that point. Like, and I'm hoping that we find out because I think that yes, his wife died when he came out and I'm sure that that triggered a lot of things for him, but I feel like something there had to have been something else happened or he was always like deep down wanting to

[01:12:44] be a puppet master and watching people fight to the death, I guess. I mean, I don't know. He's like snow in the hunger games. I think winning the games could have changed his, could have been bad for his perspective. Not just the guilt of his wife, but he had to rationalize that he had probably killed other people he was competing against in the game. And if you can instead change those people into something more animalistic, like he doesn't

[01:13:13] even see them as people that he feels equivalent to. He sees them as something other and lower than that means. He's not as bad for the people he killed in his game, right? Like if he can cling and really convince himself internally, that's how he can continue to live with himself for the things he already did, I guess. I don't know. That's my guess of how he got there. Yeah.

[01:13:38] I would love, I would love if they had taken, I would, I was saying right before I had play that I would love if instead of picking the story up, if this first episode had been some, you know, flashed us back into Inho ending his games or something like that could have been cool. Cause he probably had to kill the guy at the end, like in order to win. So. Yeah. I mean, you don't kill anyone now. All right.

[01:14:05] What about are you, do you guys have any more points or should we go to notes? Veronica? I think the only thing that I still had was just, I was curious your opinion on Gi-hun and absenting from voting and if that's as bad as voting against saying.

[01:14:31] It's a good story point to me because it, it is reflective of people in society just being like, there's no point in voting. It's fucked. And so it was good to show that that's, that's the feeling, the apathy that I felt, you know, watching. And I, I don't think we're at that point yet. I don't think we're at the point in our society that we need to turn into Gi-hun and grab a machine gun and go to Washington. No, don't do that. Anyone?

[01:15:01] We're still in the voting phase. It's still going to, you know, we can still make change through voting. Yeah. I think that the, I mean, I don't know. I also think it meant even if he knew he was going to have to stay, I think there's meaning and power in him standing up and still voting for what he believed in. I do too. Absolutely.

[01:15:31] Even if he knew he was going to lose because of how it can impact. Like if you're talking about what was the right thing versus what was good for the story, to me, those are two different points, you know, like, yeah, I felt disappointed in him, but I can also understand it at that point. Like there's all these O's, but yeah, yeah, you're right. It's just like, even if you know you're going to lose, just making a show of, hey, I still stand for this. Yeah. It's just a giant game of tic-tac-toe. X's and O's.

[01:16:00] My only other note was just the VIPs have arrived. Yes. So they're theoretically watching hide and seek. I don't think they're there yet. They said they're coming soon. There was a moment where he said the VIPs have arrived directly to the front man. Oh, okay. We didn't see them or anything. So they will be watching. They might be watching this. They are there. Yeah. I think so.

[01:16:25] So my note, basically at the beginning of the show, they tell us that 35 players died last night and there are only 60 left. And then when we see the vote, we see that 18 people voted to leave and 41 people voted to stay. A lot of the people that died, as we know, were part of Gi-hoon's side of the room, which is to vote to leave.

[01:16:52] If they left now, they could get 660 million won per person. I did not do the math to find out how much money that actually is. I think Gi-hun- It's $483,000. Oh, that's a nice chunk of change. That's all though? $483,000? Mm-hmm. Dollars, not won. I know, but man, that is a lot of- So you were saying you'd vote to stay.

[01:17:18] I'm just saying that is a lot of pain and trauma they've been through for not even half a million dollars. Yeah. Wow. And I think as far as Gi-hoon voting, not voting, I think it was a little against his character for him to not do that because I feel like he's been so engaged and invested. I don't think it was against his character after just having this failed revolution, seeing his best friend shot in the head and knowing that all these people died for nothing. He's depressed.

[01:17:48] Yeah, I get that. And hopeless. We can't. Maybe it's because this is the world that- I, personally, I say to people when they're like, well, I'm not really paying attention to what's going on because it's not really affecting me. That's when I say to them, you need to be paying attention. I'm sorry that it upsets you, but it's important to do that. And I feel like he should have. But if someone said, I'm not paying attention because my best friend was just murdered in front of my face and I got a bunch of people killed. Okay, right?

[01:18:18] Okay, okay, okay. Sorry. But I think that's pretty much all that I had. I don't have anything else. Oh, no. I do have one more thing. So the queen of the flock. We haven't really mentioned too much about her. See on you, number 44. And she has followers. She had two followers and now she has four followers. And that's given me the missed Mrs. Carmody vibes. Like it starts with one or two and then there's more.

[01:18:48] And so, yeah, I feel like we have to watch her. I don't think she's going to die in this game. I think she's going to get more followers. So let's see what happens. Because this is representative of in uncertain and unjust times, how these actors or bad actors or whatever people come up, these gurus are full of shit and get all these people following me. They get podcasts. You know what?

[01:19:17] Gurus with groupies is a term that they use sometimes in social media when someone is an influencer, builds a following, but they don't really know what they're talking about. They call them gurus with groupies. And I think she's definitely one of those. So that's all I had, Jason. What do you have? We've covered it all. That was great. We have had quite a robust discussion about this episode. I was looking forward to getting on here and talking with you guys

[01:19:44] just because it just feels good to get it all out, to be able to like, it's like therapy in a way to just like get it all out and talk about it. We only had one piece of feedback because we're recording this the day the thing came out. So people haven't had a chance to send anything in. You guys can, you know, I'll put up a post. We're going to be weekly. I'll put up a post weekly on our Podcastica group.

[01:20:13] If you go to Facebook or you can always just send email or a voice message to squidgameatpodcastica.com. But please don't spoil things in episodes after the one that you're writing about. If you decided to watch the whole thing, because we're, well, at least Veronica and I are only watching week to week. Daphne's going to watch the whole thing and come back for the finale. Totally cool. But anyway, we don't want to, we're going to try not to be spoiled for future episodes.

[01:20:43] But anyways, the listener feedback this time is from Jennifer McGinley, who says, I don't have any thoughts because I've not watched it yet, but oh wow, am I excited for later tonight to rewatch the last episodes of season two, then get tore right into this. So sorry to be that person, but ah, no Thanos, my favorite squid game character. He is to squid game. What Armand is to White Lotus, John Dory to fear, Adam Negatus' character, the Daryl Dixon show, Daryl Dixon to the walking dead, that sort of thing. Enjoy the show everyone. So she agrees with you.

[01:21:13] Yeah. All right, we're back.

[01:21:42] It's time for a little bit of news. I probably won't have a lot of news throughout this because I don't want to be spoiled. So I won't look for it, but this is from an article on the Hollywood reporter with the writer, creator, Hwang Dong-hyuk that came out after season two last November. But I think it's still really interesting and sheds lights on a few things about what the show's all about. So about polarity. He said, I want to highlight the theme of taking sides.

[01:22:11] I was inspired by the sheer fact that everywhere you turn, people are drawing lines, whether it's by generation, class, religion, ethnicity, or race. I wanted to tell a story about how the different choices we make create conflicts among us and open up a conversation about whether there's a way to move towards a direction where we can overcome these divisions, which I thought was really interesting. Like, does he have an idea or some conclusion about whether there's a way to overcome these divisions? And is that going to be in squid game somehow?

[01:22:41] That'd be interesting. Kill all the wealthy people. Just don't get it. That sounds a lot like the purge, Jason. That's like what people want to do because the wealthy are the ones that are hiding behind like mansions with metal windows and doors and keeping, keeping people out or pay people to come and die in their homes. Like it's, Oh my gosh. It's real serious. I've never actually seen one of those. I am curious, but do,

[01:23:11] I know there's one day a year where there's no rules or laws, right? But can you, so you can steal too? Oh yeah. You can do whatever you want. Yeah. I have an order. I would recommend them in. So if you ever visit them, let me know and I'll tell you what it is. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. I'm, yeah, I know. All right. Yeah. I'm definitely curious. I should watch. I should watch. All right.

[01:23:37] About the tension of some players voting to stay and keep playing while others voting to leave so they don't have to risk their lives. Hwang Dong Hyuk says we live in a democratic society and everyone has their own right to vote, but the dominant side rules. So I also just wanted to pose the question. Is the majority always right? I think we know the answer to that. About, about, this is kind of a long one, but I thought it was really interesting about his inspiration for creating the squid game. The article says,

[01:24:05] Hwang Dong Hyuk's inspiration for squid game was personal. It's a conception. It's conception took place during a particularly impoverished period in his career. When financing for a film project fell apart, he found himself broke in his late thirties, passing time in comic book cafes, reading manga about battle royales and daydreaming about such competitions being his own ticket to financial salvation. But his preoccupation with economic inequality took root much earlier than that. After his father,

[01:24:32] a journalist died of stomach cancer when Hwang was five, the future filmmaker watched his mother take on multiple odd jobs in order to support him, his brother and his grandmother. Quote, despite all of our hard work, we lived very poor for a long time, says the soul native, now 53. Fortunately for the household, the young Hwang demonstrated great scholastic aptitude. Quote, as long as I can remember, I was the hope of the family because I was a good student. My mother expected me to go to a great college, get a great job,

[01:25:01] make a lot of money and carry our family up from the bottom. He continues. That was my only goal in life. This was of course, the backstory of season one, Sang Woo, Gi-hun's childhood friend and the golden boy of their working class neighborhood, whose failed investments forced him to join the game. So Hwang was accepted to Seoul national university when Korea's most prestigious schools, but says that quote, when I enrolled in college, that's when I began to think, why did I live my entire life only thinking about that goal?

[01:25:28] I became less interested in getting a good job and making money and more interested in why the world was divided so drastically between the haves and the have nots. Why is it that despite my mother working so many long hours at so many different jobs, we still have to live like this? Hwang's epiphany led him to join leftist student movements in college and study film. He moved to the U S in 2000 to attend USC film school,

[01:25:52] where his thesis short about a Korean woman searching for a brother who was adopted in the U S as a young boy, won a DGA student award and a student Emmy. After receiving his MFA, Hwang remained in Los Angeles for two more years, living as an expatriate for six years. The young director was struck by the socioeconomic stratification, as well as how especially stark the class and racial divide appeared to be in this country, in the U S quote,

[01:26:51] quote, in Korea, I went to one of the best schools in the country. And everywhere I went, I was treated as one of the elites. He says of his college years, whereas being an international student in the U S quote, I learned that the world is indeed a huge place. And I'm just a speck floating by writing the Metro to the beach cities. One day, he stared at the view of South LA outside his window quote. I still vividly remember looking down from the train above. He says people talk about the American dream and its prosperity,

[01:27:19] but I was thinking maybe this is what the real America looks like. So it just kind of gives you an idea that he's thinking about all this real world stuff as he's making this. Yeah. It's hard not to. I mean, really, I watched the show a little differently now than I did when it first, you know, was released, which was early in the pandemic. Like just the way that things have changed it, you kind of find those connections. It's,

[01:27:48] and it's not like I'm trying to look at it and think, Oh, I've got to make this connect. It just does. Like, yeah. It's to me, very easy to see how the similarities. And I really appreciate that. You know, the show was created because I think if you look beyond the brutality, you actually see the underlying themes and it's, I mean, it's mind blowing sometimes. Yeah. The things that come up.

[01:28:17] Like the game stuff is so just, uh, horrifically delicious. But if it wasn't for the social commentary, I wouldn't have wanted to start a podcast about this show. That really, really because it's so much, it's so much more than just the brutality. Yeah. It's a social, it's like basically a thesis in social relationships and the hierarchy of

[01:28:46] society. Yep. All right. That is our show. Thanks so much for listening. Everyone good to be back talking about this show. I'm kind of glad it's the last season, but I'm ready for it. Uh, next up will be squid game season three, episode two, the starry night.

[01:29:16] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcast.com. And I have to tell you, Jason, the starry night just makes me think of Vincent van Gogh and his painting. And I know it refers to like inside where the game is. Cause they painted the ceiling and stuff, but I go straight to Vincent van Gogh. Yeah. I'm sure that's on purpose. We will have to look at, cause I don't really know the story behind that painting, but maybe it has some extra meaning or something. Yeah,

[01:29:46] it could. Yeah. Um, while you're at podcast, podcast, you should go check out some of our other shows. What are you guys listening to and watching right now? Besides squid games? yeah. What are you doing on run for your lives? What's next? We just dropped an episode on sinners, which is a fantastic movie. We had probably one of our longer podcast episodes talking about it because it's, it's amazing.

[01:30:16] Like I can't, I'm not going to spoil anything. And I feel like anything I would say about it would spoil it. It, it's just, to me, it's a movie that should get Oscar recognition. It's a horror though, right? I haven't seen it, but it's gotten a lot of buzz. Yes. It's fantastic. Is it Michael B. Jordan? Or who is it? Yeah. Michael B. Jordan. He plays twins. Oh, wow. It's, it's amazing. Um,

[01:30:44] and it's by the same director. I think it's Ryan Coogler and he did black Panther. Yeah. So it's, it's got a vibe. There's it's yeah, it's fantastic. So we dropped. Yeah, we dropped that one and we've done some more recent movies the last couple of weeks, but our ninth season is ending at the end of July 1st of August. And then we'll take a break and come back, but we only have like four or five more episodes. It's pretty exciting.

[01:31:15] Um, over on the cast of us, uh, Paik and Karen and Lucy and I podcasted on the new, uh, 28 film sequel, 28 years later, Danny Boyle directed and, uh, Alex Garland wrote it. And that was a fun discussion. That movie was very unexpected, but we all loved it. Yeah. It was like, I didn't know what we were. I didn't know what they were going to give us, but I trusted,

[01:31:43] like I have faith in them. So yeah, it was, it was surprising, but so good. So, yeah. And, I'm starting a new podcast. It's called wax episodica where I'm going to be covering different shows. The first one is going to be alien earth, which is the upcoming alien series coming out on FX in August. And so we just recorded an episode about the original 1979 alien movie.

[01:32:11] And that'll be out in a couple of days or so. Veronica, you just, you've, it was been a little while now, but you guys finished up, uh, the wheel of time and then they canceled series. I know. I don't want to talk. It's painful. I got so invested in this and now they hurt us so deeply by taking it away. Oops. We're going to play some, play some music. We're going to have. Thanks Siri.

[01:32:41] Uh, yeah, that, that is a bummer. And I, I'm, I know what it's like, like Ash versus evil dead just killed me when they canceled that after season three. And it's, it's no fun. And yeah, too bad. Knocking, knocking on wood. I have not had that happen to me on a show that I podcast about. I've been lucky, but I honestly thought it might happen with yellow jackets. Not because the show wasn't fantastic, but because I know whatever reason, really.

[01:33:11] Yeah. The waiting was horrendous. I just wanted to know. It's like, am I going to get what I want out of this show? Give us another season at least, please. But, um, I've been very lucky that it hasn't happened, but I have had shows canceled. And that's left me like feeling really depressed because it's an outlet and you get invested. You're, you're connected.

[01:33:39] I haven't had this happen really very often before to me. Um, the only other show that really hurt me deep was they did a series based on the dark crystal movie. Um, on Netflix, you know, full puppet. It was amazing. Amazing. I still recommend just watching the one season of it. If you just want to see beautiful world building and master puppetry artistry. Um,

[01:34:08] but yeah, it definitely left on a cliffhanger and deserved to be a two season run at least. And I get nervous with that one hurt me. I get nervous with Netflix because they've canceled shows like right in the middle with cliffhangers, like two or three season shows like glow or the Santa Clarita diet. And they just tend to do that. And what, at least one of my, yeah, Jerry,

[01:34:39] who I podcast on another podcast with said, he doesn't like to start watching a show until it's already got a season now. And it's been renewed for season two because he doesn't want to invest in it. Yeah. I kind of feel like that too. Unless it's just something that I'm going to want to watch. Right. What? Like this alien series. Like Noah Hawley's doing it. He did Fargo and Legion, two of my favorite shows. So I'm like, I'm going to watch it, but at least with wheel of time, there's a book series and I haven't read the books.

[01:35:08] So I have that in the future where I can finish the story, but yeah, that's good. Sort of a bummer to lose the TV depiction. Oh, well, all right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. It's your fault. That's good. I like it. That's very good. It's not really your fault.