11: “Becoming, Part 2” (BTVS S2E22)

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[00:00:13] I'm Steve. I lost 138 pounds in nine months on golo.

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[00:00:20] If you're ready to take back control of your life, head we have proof. We have my word, Mom, not proof. Look, I am sure that they will understand. Get them involved, you'll get them killed. Well, you're not gonna hurt them, are you? I'm a slayer, not a postal worker. Cops can't fight demons, I have to do it.

[00:01:42] Do what?

[00:01:43] Buffy, what is happening?

[00:01:45] Just have another drink.

[00:01:46] Don't you talk to me that way. This is insane, Buffy, you need help. I'm not crazy! What I need is for you to chill. I have to go. No, I am not letting you out of this house. You can't stop me. Oh, I need to see you. a top five or top 10 list of all Buffy episodes because I don't know how I would possibly do that. But I do agree that this one would be up there because it the whole series pivots around this moment.

[00:04:22] Oh, yeah. And that's, you to 1998. The number one song in the country, the week that this aired, was My All by Mariah Carey, and also rapper DMX released his debut studio album It's Dark and Hell is Hot,

[00:05:40] which I thought was appropriate for Buffy, and that debuted at number one on the Billboard 2000 On May 19th of 1998, the Galaxy 4 satellite fell out of its designated orbit for still disputed reasons. Instantly, 45 million people across America lost service to the indispensable mobile gadgets of the day. Pagers. 80% of the beepers in America went silent. I bet that was a cluster.

[00:07:03] I can't imagine if that happened today for cell phones, like people would lose their minds.

[00:08:02] I'd be amazing. Other things going on, this one's pretty huge.

[00:08:05] On May 6th of 1998, Apple's first iMac computer

[00:08:10] is unveiled to the public by Steve Jobs.

[00:08:13] Then, unfortunately, May 14th, 1998,

[00:08:16] we saw Frank Sinatra dying from a heart attack

[00:08:19] at the age of 82.

[00:08:21] May 22nd of 1998, the Good Friday Agreement

[00:08:26] is endorsed by referendums in the Republic of Ireland Oh gosh, this would have been the second half of my fourth grade year, but I remember this being talked about, especially in my house. We were huge Phil Hartman fans. My dad loved comedy and I But yeah, that was a running joke in our house. So when Phil Hartman died, I was like, oh, I'm supposed to marry him. Like, yeah, it was very sad. Very, very sad. Well, May of 1998, I was sending in my deposit check

[00:11:00] for NYU Law School and I had, you know,

[00:11:04] figuring out housing and stuff.

[00:11:06] It was a big change time in my life.

[00:12:04] heard. And the use of a Sarah McLaughlin song in the Buffy finale was a meta message, because Sarah McLaughlin was all

[00:12:10] over the news and and really, really like a huge figure in

[00:12:15] feminist circles because she in 1997 had started Lilith Fair.

[00:12:21] And Lilith Fair started because she and other artists like her and all that, and they were able to address some of the failings of the 97 Festival, which was namely lack of diversity, right? The 97 Festival was like 90% white. as well as like, you know, Captain America, but it's doing well enough. And they're all like, this proves women, you know, don't make box office gold.

[00:15:00] And it's like, no, first of all, Barbie just proved you wrong.

[00:15:03] And secondly, like you let like mediocre male-led movies just like ride.

[00:16:04] it was going to be primarily Sarah McLachlan, Shale Crow. I think the Dixie chicks were involved that year

[00:16:07] and the Indigo girls.

[00:16:09] And I like begged my parents to go.

[00:16:14] And my mom was like, oh, I think you're too young for concerts.

[00:16:17] I went to Spice Girls in fourth grade.

[00:16:20] I was like, you let me see them.

[00:16:22] And we can't do this.

[00:16:23] I was like, this is not fair.

[00:16:24] Yeah, and like, but now.

[00:16:25] But music festivals like that take place in the daytime outside. Oh darkness I feel like letting go The ending of the episode is one of the saddest moments on TV, even sadder than the birthday one after Angel turns where she just lets her cake candle burn out. Like that was really sad. But this where she's like, she looks at

[00:17:43] her friends and she's like, I can't, I just can't. And she puts on. I was all in that he was back to being angel. He was confused. And I was like, how does Buffy ever recover from that moment? Even, you know, knowing what we know now, not at the same time so excited to see where they were gonna take us next. It was a huge moment that I had never seen anything quite like it on TV. Somebody having to sacrifice their love,

[00:20:20] the person they love,

[00:20:24] and how well Sarah Michelle Geller played it on her face,

[00:21:36] You know, it was, we talked about it being, before we were on, you know, recording, talking about how it's a broadcast show. It's made for Boryanna's for how every emotion is written on their face. They do an excellent job in this scene. And it still bugs me. I feel like they did not get enough credit for the acting on this show sometimes. Back then, a genre show getting any kind of critical acclaim was

[00:23:04] unheard of. Being sci-fi. We're watching that show. And I'm yeah, you imagine Buffy on HBO. Oh, there would have been a lot more on you to do. Yeah. And I'm glad that she wasn't on HBO. I have the same feelings about like famously walking dead was pitched to HBO and they

[00:24:23] passed on it. Same with Mad Men. And I agree, like Buffy being, you know, during the time that it was as well without any influence of, you know, cell phones and social media in the plot lines. Like, I could have, if it was today and it was a CW show, we would have had those kind of obnoxious little iPhone bubbles popping up on the screen.

[00:25:42] Yeah.

[00:25:42] They're testing each other.

[00:25:44] I hate those because I never can read them fast enough.

[00:25:46] And then I have to complete the spell. And that's best case scenario for Buffy. In that instance, she doesn't have to kill the man that she loves. She can prevent

[00:27:00] this hell dimension from being opened up. And I just don't like how with sander Oz just seems to have such a good head on his shoulders. And it's why I feel like Xander does not love Buffy. If he loved Buffy and really cared about her, this is not how he would be operating. He would be more considerate of her and her feelings. And he, you know, he's sitting

[00:28:21] there confessing his love basically to Willow while he. Nothing. Yeah. And the smelly burning herbs in a room with like oxygen taste stuff like. No, just let it happen. It's

[00:29:42] fine. I'm sure that a bunch of teenagers in there know what

[00:29:45] they're doing. That's fine. Her best friend is one of the victims.

[00:31:01] And they just seem to automatically assume that Buffy did it. And then

[00:32:02] who is not a lawyer, I apologize. But Tennessee versus Garner was in 1985.

[00:32:06] It was established.

[00:32:08] You cannot use that type of deadly force

[00:32:10] when someone is running away and trying to get away

[00:32:15] from the police.

[00:32:15] And I think about that every single time.

[00:32:17] And I was like, I know that's not something

[00:32:19] that was on the mind of the writers in the writers room.

[00:32:23] And this is much more dramatic.

[00:32:25] But the gunshot just like takes you had to run. What else were you going to do? It's like, good instincts. Nobody's going to blame you for that. That was not cowardly. That was what you needed to do. But I think it says a lot about Cordelia's character that she was experiencing, you know, some guilt about that and questioning. Yeah.

[00:33:40] I was like, oh, Cordelia.

[00:33:41] And in the future, Cordelia does.

[00:34:42] to be gang and I'm glad they do acknowledge that, but it's just so funny to me how it took this long

[00:34:48] for somebody to be like, yeah, I should learn how to fight

[00:34:52] or maybe use a weapon of some kind

[00:34:55] if we're living in Sunnydale.

[00:34:57] And like, keep some garlic in your bag, right?

[00:35:02] And I still don't work on him. He's a Jewish vampire. Crosses don't work on him but stars of David do and I just love that touch in the book. It's like yeah because he's Jewish because he needs the star of David. And it's specifically faith based. I like that. It's the faith behind it. Yeah. That makes their

[00:36:21] ways to make it make sense because I don't, Buffy is not a Christian show. No. It's not,

[00:37:27] Hello, cutie. Hello, cutie.

[00:37:30] It's like one of the best lines ever.

[00:37:38] Yeah.

[00:37:39] Because we've established that Spike, you know, for any other you would have experienced watching it live with commercials. Because I remember being so anxious. Yeah, in between each commercial. And sometimes I would, because I used a VCR back then to tape the show. I would wait until it was done so that I would be able to fast forward through the commercials,

[00:39:03] rather than watching it live.

[00:39:04] It's funny, you mentioned VCR. Now you hold on a second! Hey! White flagger, I quit. Let me clear this up for you. We're mortal enemies. We don't get timeouts. You want to go around Pet Oliver Gay old time of it? You want to stop Angel? We're gonna have to play this a bit differently. What are you talking about? Talking about your ex-pet. I'm talking about putting him in the bloody ground.

[00:40:21] This has gotta be the lamest trick you guys have ever thought up.

[00:40:26] He's got your watcher. With a real passion for destruction, Angel could pull it off. Goodbye, Piccadilly farewell, Lester, Bloody Square. You know what I'm saying? OK, fine. You're not down with Angel. Why would you ever come to me?

[00:41:41] I want Drew back.

[00:41:44] I want it like it was before he came back.

[00:41:47] Why is she ex-acrammed him? can just, you know, the chemistry between them oozes off screen. It's amazing. And they just, it's so palpable the way that there's that tension between them. And I love how chock full of spikes, little speeches of references to like, of course, he's appreciative of Manchester United like that.

[00:43:01] Yeah. And dog racing?

[00:43:02] Yeah.

[00:43:02] Dog racing?

[00:43:03] All right.

[00:43:04] It's fine.

[00:43:04] Good.

[00:43:05] Good to know.

[00:43:06] That's a cruel sport.

[00:43:08] But okay. killed Kendra and he's just like, Drew bagged a slayer? She didn't tell me like, yeah, he's so proud. He's so proud of her and happy for her and the fact that And then he's like, oh, not from your perspective, I guess he just has to remember where he is. Oh yeah, just like when he's like, oh, right, let me kill this guy real quick. And she's like, damn it, man.

[00:45:21] It's like, he's on her level. It makes him so fun.

[00:45:22] Like Angel doesn't banter.

[00:45:24] Angel's not funny.

[00:45:25] No, he's too broody.

[00:45:26] And when he is funny, he's not intentionally funny.

[00:45:31] Yeah.

[00:45:31] Or he's like goofy.

[00:45:32] Yeah.

[00:45:33] Like in few, on the show Angel, they show his lighter side

[00:45:36] a little bit.

[00:45:37] Yeah.

[00:45:37] He gets to be goofy sometimes.

[00:45:39] But he's not.

[00:45:40] He's awkward.

[00:45:41] Verbalie funny.

[00:45:42] Yeah.

[00:45:43] Yeah.

[00:45:44] The way I guess. I still don't understand why that random vampire thought that would be his moment to go after Buffy. We needed this to be a moment when Joyce is able to find out that Buffy's a vampire slayer, but Buffy and Spike handle him real quick after talking about their band practice together.

[00:47:01] Yeah.

[00:47:02] And trying to use a lot of skins.

[00:47:04] I love that so much.

[00:47:05] What does he say?

[00:47:07] So, triangle.

[00:48:02] In this moment, I don't remember the name of the other person in the Urethics.

[00:48:03] I don't either.

[00:48:03] Sam Lowe said the naudits.

[00:48:06] Um, Jason Gross said, Fang and the Slayer or Fang Slayer or

[00:48:12] blonde blood.

[00:48:13] I posited strange bedfellows.

[00:48:16] I like it.

[00:48:17] Looming onion and happy meals with legs.

[00:48:21] Happy meals with legs.

[00:48:22] I really like.

[00:48:24] I really like that too.

[00:48:25] And then the first single would be cup of tea cup of tea, almost got an essay called Choosing Your Own Mother by J. P. Williams, Mother Dara Conflicts in Buffy. And there was a lot of talk about how Joyce is like out of it and not really involved in Buffy's life. In Passion, she flat out says, like you can shut me out of your life. I see this scene where Buffy tells her she's the slayer

[00:49:43] and then they fight as symbolic of a coming out scene

[00:50:44] who like throw their kids out of the house or like send them to those horrible conversion programs that are basically torture. But in the 90s, this was probably extremely realistic

[00:50:52] for somebody coming out to their parent. And the parent just being like, what? I don't even know

[00:50:57] what that world is. I don't want you to be a part of it. on the nose. And it's, you know, Buffy is just, she is who she is. And yeah, I... She didn't choose it. Like gay people don't choose it. Exactly. It happened. It's part of her who she is, like biologically.

[00:52:22] And she had a hard time accepting it herself.

[00:52:26] And now that she what? No, it stops now. Don't do this anymore. It's because your father moved out. Like all those things, I'm sure, happen. I'm fortunate I never had to come out to my parents. But I certainly have had friends who've gone through it and it's gone well or it's gone badly.

[00:53:40] And sometimes it's hard to know how their parents

[00:53:44] will respond.

[00:53:45] Sometimes the parents who have the worst response the whole thread, but not this particular question. And they, the user CoolBeans92 asked if it was difficult to act what is actually a very common argument between parents and their children, especially from members of the LGBT community. I'm very much not an actor,

[00:55:00] but I imagine that even with a character,

[00:55:02] you build a connection to the characters, family and friends.

[00:55:05] Just wondering what your thoughts were on this

[00:55:06] as I think it's an amazingly well- this scene. You can see her, you know, kind of working out almost going through the five stages of grief. Like you see her getting angry. It's just like, well, it ends now. Like this is not going to happen. And you see the the denial. Gets Better campaign that um yeah Dan Savage started. That was an amazing campaign. If you guys haven't seen any of those videos when we get to see them working through Buffy being a slayer. And I love that it, that Joyce is always human.

[00:59:03] Yeah.

[00:59:03] And always realistic and grounded. And she's just like, ah, like. Yes, that's where I know you from. Like it's normal. And then she's like, do you live here in town? And it's like. She's making effort. But it's the beginning. Spoiler, guys, it's the beginning of many wonderful joy spike scenes to come. Fabulous. Their relationship is one of my favorite things

[01:00:21] of the whole series.

[01:00:24] But she maintains like a polite face while spike is in the house. I forget a little bit once you have to watch her kill angel with his soul restored. She's like, oh, yep. All around Buffy had a really rough night. Yeah, this was the worst possible day. Speaking of rough nights. I guess we haven't talked about poor old Giles.

[01:01:41] Oh, man.

[01:01:42] Yeah, let's what I got. I have so much respect for Giles. Like, he's clearly in tons of pain and terror, but he is not yelling and moaning and screaming. I would be noisy as fuck if Angelus was torturing me

[01:03:03] and breaking my fingers.

[01:03:04] And if he's, you know, the's in your head. Yeah. Oh, of course. And she's like all excited to play Jenny. And it works. It works perfectly. Right. Jenny is so gentle with him.

[01:04:24] And she's like, you know, it's all. It's really like it's a trick. They get inside my head and they make me see things I want. And Sanders just like, then why would they make you see me? And Jaws like, oh yeah, good point. Like, and that kind of Yeah, that completely convinces him what he wants is this very feminine, like sideways approach that is more about understanding Giles and and persuading him with the information. It week tonight. That's why that popped into my head. But I think it shows how strong also Drew and Angel and Spike can be as a team. If they are actually working together, they are terrifying.

[01:08:21] They all have-

[01:08:22] You can't help. ultimate feminine villain. And she is. The way that Buffy is a feminine hero. I think I do like that so much in this show how some of the most strong and compelling female characters, we've talked about this before, they do not lose that femininity.

[01:09:44] Drew is uber feminine. not be lulled into talking. And he doesn't even say much. And then it's, but it's enough for them to figure out the issue and it has to be Angel's own blood. And then his realization that he's given up the information is so sad again. And he has to go through losing Jenny all over again. He's like, that wasn't real.

[01:11:01] And he realizes it.

[01:11:02] And it's, again, it's a sad moment

[01:12:05] really given enough credit about how powerful she is and

[01:12:11] Skilled she is because I think they're because she's crazy out her. Oh, yeah

[01:12:19] You know she doesn't always make sense when she talks and I think it causes people to underestimate her also because she's female They just think like oh she won't be as strong as angel or spike and true to that

[01:12:24] like anyone who thinks that is gonna lose their blood because she is

[01:13:22] You're like, oh, fuck. She is terrifying.

[01:13:24] Angel, Spike, Drusilla, Darla,

[01:13:27] they're all stronger than other vampires seemingly.

[01:13:29] And I think it's because Darla was sired by the master.

[01:13:33] So they're all from a line of the master.

[01:13:37] Yeah, so I think that they are actually stronger vampires

[01:13:40] than other run of the mill vampires.

[01:13:42] That makes sense because they seem to be able to, is working with her. Oh, it's such a fun moment. You can't take on all of us. I know. I know. I know. And when Spike knocks Dr. Silla out, which is ridiculous because vampires don't need oxygen or the sleep or blood to the brain or whatever, it's like, how did that work?

[01:15:00] Yeah, that's not going to work on a vampire, but let's just let that slide.

[01:15:05] And then he's carrying her out and he looks over and he's like, oh, he's going to kill

[01:15:08] her. about Buffy. No. It's great. And then they leave town in his like, you know, muscle car, his blacked out muscle car. And it's just so spiked to like race out of town in this like blacked out car and like, you know, never to be seen again,

[01:16:20] except that he will.

[01:16:21] He's got his priorities.

[01:16:23] And yeah, it's true.

[01:16:25] Way up there, which still I, no, if we remove Angel

[01:17:41] from the situation, I'm happy again.

[01:17:44] It's not like he's not mad at Drew.

[01:17:46] He's kind of a feminist.

[01:17:48] Yeah. Spike. her than Angel's Sun double. The sword fighting when it is actually Sarah Michelle Gellar is so graceful though. She's amazing with that sword and he's not bad but he's not as graceful as she muscles. She, so it's, she always it's like, it's deceptive. Like nobody sees it coming. That she's gonna be so powerful. She always looks like tiny. It's like that live and limber strength.

[01:20:22] But yeah, she's so strong.

[01:20:24] I mean, there are scenes and later seasons

[01:20:26] where she does that like she was weak enough to be, you know, caught by the killer.

[01:21:40] That's fantastic.

[01:21:41] It's so funny because she was justressing Angel's face, it was delicate. Yeah. Like she turns off the Buffy strength like immediately and is so loving and gentle in that moment. And then back to being slayer Buffy with the sword,

[01:23:02] it makes the scene so powerful

[01:23:04] because you're experiencing these two sides of her as he is. Yeah, I can't imagine him dealing with that very well. Gosh, in that moment, it's just so sad and seeing, you know, I remember watching it and not really remembering what had happened when willing to kill him and that scene where she just looks at him and is like, give me time. And the fact that she was ready and then was able to muster the strength to kill him as angel, like knowing what the consequences

[01:25:45] were, that still took an incredible amount of resolve in that and then the fighting starts again. I love it. I loved it so much. But yeah, Do You Have Here in Town is definitely my favorite moment of the whole episode. Yeah, I think so funny. That wins. It's just so good. And opens the door for so many beautiful choice and spike interactions to come. I know.

[01:28:06] of them know that the ritual actually worked. And I think it's a great setup to the next season.

[01:28:15] And foreshadows all the different kinds of issues that they're inevitably going to have to deal with

[01:28:26] as a group because they got a lot of stuff to so much drama in and attitude. And they do a good job of, Buffy seems resolved and sad, like she knows what she has to do. Whereas when you see the Scoobies all in front of the school, they all seem hopeful still. Yeah. And it's like Buffy has lost all hope whatsoever.

[01:29:43] And you know.

[01:29:44] Yeah, she's drained.

[01:29:46] She's completely drained.

[01:30:42] very end of the credits to see this. But this is one of only six times

[01:30:46] that the very last moment in the credits has changed.

[01:30:49] So usually what happens is a little like,

[01:30:51] you know, like line drawing of a monster

[01:30:54] goes across the screen and says,

[01:30:56] gurr, rr.

[01:30:57] And in this particular episode, it says,

[01:31:01] I need a hug because it's just so freaking sad.

[01:31:04] Yeah.

[01:31:05] Yup.

[01:31:06] Hugs, hugs all around. Oh yeah, I was like, I should have looked that up. It's kind of fitting. It's kind of cool that Spike brings that up. Yeah, he's like a he's like the Scoobies. He's like a pop culture reference dropper and it's lovely, except that his references are old because he's old. Yep. I do like that consistency.

[01:32:21] Like, it's very, very spot on for his character.

[01:33:24] but relevant to issues that go on with teenagers all over this country, all over the world,

[01:33:26] and powerful and emotional and beautiful.

[01:33:32] And it holds up like you said.

[01:33:35] It's Slays all day.

[01:33:37] I think once we, you know,

[01:33:40] maybe a few years down the line,

[01:33:42] perhaps get through all the seasons of Buffy,

[01:33:46] we'll definitely have to do some sort of wrap up for. This finale and season cemented my adolescent TV obsession and adulthood nostalgia. Peek Buffy. Absolutely agree, Sam. Awesome. Thanks, Sam. I got to meet Sam at the October Z-head meetup. Oh, I'm so jealous I didn't get to go to Massachusetts. Yeah, it was really cool.

[01:35:01] She came to the party as Zombarby. That's Yes. And he doesn't tell Buffy what Willow is doing. Yeah, we agree with you on that. Knob head is a great work. That is good. I know it probably wouldn't have changed anything if Buffy had known. Angel had to die anyway, but he did it purely for selfish reasons and it really pissed me off. I'm laughing. It's in Pottico, Jolene. Yeah, we're right there with you.

[01:36:21] Anyway, enough of the lecture from me.

[01:36:23] I love, love, love this podcast.

[01:36:25] And like I said, the other said, I wear it often during fall and winter. She goes on to say, love the podcast. Buffy is one of my all-time favorite shows.

[01:37:41] Still think the series finale is the best series finale ever.

[01:37:46] It's nice to have someone reviewing the show. what you have to say when we get into season three. We got a couple of voicemails. The first is from our friend Jim who guested on, what episode was he on? Phases. And he will be back guesting in season three again. We got a few notes from people who were like, bring Jim back, we like Jim.

[01:39:00] So he'll be back.

[01:39:03] It's his enthusiasm that people really responded to.

[01:39:05] Oh yeah.

[01:39:06] Here is his voicemail. of it. But we get to really see it take shape here where he's his scheming is less about scheming and more about driving forward. And really, he's just trying to get out of there with through syllable. We get that look when they're standing outside of Buffy's house with Buffy and spiker staring at each other. And I can't help to think, is this foreshadowing something? But I'm going to

[01:40:21] step away from that because I don't want to get this tossed into to see her true self when she's talking about being a coward and you can really feel a charisma carpenter just kind of owning her character. Angelus, when he's talking about torture and it's almost sexual, you can really see Joss Whedon just kind of really figuring out the

[01:41:42] Angelus character or at least writing it the in season three and then, you know, two different shows down the road. Just what a fantastic, fantastic episode where now we're not only running in a marathon, but we're now in a dead sprint. We've now turned into like useful for other things than during vampires. So yeah, we'll put up a spoiler, you know, comment post on our Facebook page and Instagram. So anybody who

[01:44:21] wants to can send in their thoughts about cruel intentions right we have another voicemail from our good friends Steve Brown. Hello, still slaying. This is Steve and I had a live Steve for becoming part two that was

[01:45:40] whoa almost four minutes and it was like rambling and age. Now, of course, in the 90s, we looked at it and we were like, yeah, they were totally just fighting. Now we kind of look at it a little differently. And then, of course, Giles being tortured by Angel and Orangelis, however you want to say it. And then ultimately being Drusilla pretending

[01:47:03] to be Miss Callender, Jenny Callender, statistics on the publication platform that we use and notice that we have two or three listeners in the Philippines and two or three listeners in India. So cool. And I am so excited about it. I really want to hear from people who are from different cultures about how the show translates into that culture. So if

[01:48:22] you wanted to drop us a line we would be really excited to hear from you. And And if you'd like to join the conversation, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com or find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash podcast or I forget what's the Instagram handle? It's at still slaying cast? Yes. Still at still slaying cast on Instagram.

[01:49:41] And you can write in or record a voice message or find those links to our social media pages I am not a huge Godzilla fan. I haven't seen all the Godzilla movies or anything like that. So I didn't expect to love it, and I love it. It's thrilling. The Monarch organization that's sort of the backbone of the show is really reminding me a lot of like the Dharma initiative from Lost.

[01:51:02] And one of the coolest things that's so brilliant,

[01:51:04] they've cast Kurt Russell and his son Wyatt Russell It's a fantastic cover. She'd last I was a lovely bomb in the midst of darkness. Nice little palette cleanser. Great British Bake Off, which they cover on Strange Indeed. And if you like what you hear, hit like, hit follow, hit subscribe, tell your friends.

[01:52:20] We love to hear from you.

[01:52:22] If you have an issue,

[01:52:24] if you don't like something we do,

[01:52:25] like drop us a line and let us know.

[01:52:26] Yes, please.

[01:52:27] We're open to constructive criticism. Oh, Xander. That's so much. All right, that's the end of the non-spoiler section. If you want to avoid spoilers, you should stop listening now. Tch, tch, tch. It's too bad we can't sneak a look at the Watcher diaries. I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell. Yeah. That's too bad.

[01:53:41] That stuff is private.

[01:53:42] Also, Jarl's keeps them in his office, in his personal files. Joyce and Spike develop like a real friendship over the years and Spike like loves Joyce. At one point he's like I would never feed off Joyce. Like I love her. The idea of that is just insulting to him. He's like no I she's wonderful.

[01:55:01] And you know she's like they're seasons. So much fun. And I do love Spuffy. Spuffy. Well, I guess that's not entirely a miss, misspeak there because Spuffy is their ship name. But yeah, I love Spike and Buffy together playing off each other.

[01:56:20] I think it's interesting what they end And you're like, the mayor, don't don't don't. So that's coming in.

[01:57:41] And so you have to do with any of this.

[01:57:44] Yeah, and it's just a very quick much there that, that, you know, you have to laugh. He's double gang land. It's just all brilliant. They take a lot of risks in this episode and in this season and

[02:00:21] they all pay off. They're just,

[02:00:22] it's just an expertly crafted season.

[02:00:25] And I am towards the end.

[02:01:23] episode of the entire series is in season four. Interesting. I can't wait until we get to find out what that is.

[02:01:27] Yeah.

[02:01:28] It'll be fun.

[02:01:30] It'll be really fun.

[02:01:31] It's such a rare occurrence where I just absolutely can't stand episode.

[02:01:38] We'll see.

[02:01:41] We'll definitely cover it.

[02:01:43] Yeah.

[02:01:44] Maybe we should get a guest for that one so that that person can be enthusiastic to balance

[02:01:48] out. Yeah, 22 is a lot of episodes of TV. It's a lot. And for the actors too, I mean, it's a slog to get through all of that and they do it with grace and style and so impressive. True story. Or short. All right.

[02:03:00] I think that's the end.

[02:03:02] Thanks for listening everyone.

[02:03:04] Until next time, I've been Penny and I'm Kara.