16: "Faith, Hope & Trick" (BTVS S3E03)

[00:00:00] Mm?

[00:00:01] Ah!

[00:00:02] Hmm.

[00:00:04] Bunk-atsby girl!

[00:00:06] So you're a slayer, too.

[00:00:07] Isn't that interesting?

[00:00:09] Do you like it?

[00:00:10] Oh, God, I love it.

[00:00:12] Well, just a second, honey.

[00:00:14] You know, Buffy never talks that way.

[00:00:16] Why do you love it?

[00:00:18] Well, when I'm fighting, it's like the whole world goes away, and I only know one thing

[00:00:23] that I'm gonna win and they're gonna lose.

[00:00:25] I like that feeling.

[00:00:27] Well, there's some things I'd be happy to see you share. Like the slang. I mean, two of you fighting is safer than one, right?

[00:01:42] I guess.

[00:01:43] Unless, I mean, you heard her, she loves the slang. And... learn and sing that song and she called my mom in. Oh God. Fink and made her look at the lyrics. It was like, do you want your daughter to be listening to this song? And my mom was like, my daughter doesn't know what this song means. Yeah. It's just a fun day.. I'm not looking. I've seen the movie. Chicken Soup for the Soul person either. Yeah. Oh gosh. That's very late 90s appropriate chicken soup for this whole. It's like every single classroom we had,

[00:05:42] there were multiple chicken soup for the Soul books.

[00:05:45] Yeah.

[00:05:46] And there were so many different versions like chicken soup underlying under oath and obstruction of justice. At the same time that day, Clinton announced huge education reform initiative all about like paying teachers more, smaller classrooms, all that kind of stuff. I don't know how well it was received given that, you know, every newspaper, TV show, everything was focused on the impeachment.

[00:07:02] The budget was being negotiated at the time and there was a lot of news articles about

[00:07:07] is the government going to shut down? beside what's going on over there. Pinochet was arrested in London. Do you remember all of the hubbub about him? Like he was this Chilean dictator. He had been responsible for all kinds of war crimes and then he fled to Europe and then he ended up getting arrested in London. This was huge news. I remember what he looked like.

[00:08:23] Like that's what stands out to me

[00:08:25] because I was in fifth grade at the time.

[00:08:27] Like I remember it on the news and they go bad eventually and It's like the woman or whoever the victim is put through this horrible examination to take the rape kit Which is in itself traumatizing and then they don't use the evidence and It's infuriating. It's infuriating whenever I think about it And this was really interesting to me at the time the US began its anti-trust case against Microsoft later that week. I

[00:10:50] is so normal. His introduction, he's just such a typical normal like all American guy. Like that's what I think of every time Scott's on screen. He's very unthreaded. Right?

[00:10:56] Right? He's like, that's a good word. He's like, this is, I would really like to have

[00:10:59] friendship with you. Like he's gentle with Buffy three times, go away. And he waited for her to come to him and that's exactly how that should happen. And sometimes the girl doesn't come to you guys and that's it, you're done. Find a different girl to like. This is not one of those situations

[00:12:21] where keep trying, don't give up.

[00:12:23] Right.

[00:12:24] It applies.

[00:12:25] Exactly.

[00:12:25] No, he modeled really perfect behavior. And you know, I like the introduction of three so vastly different characters where you've got Scott, you've got Faith, and you have Mr. Trick, who I love Mr. Trick. I just really want to Diet Coke and a little snack, apparently. I love him so much.

[00:13:40] I think he is one of the funniest, like, most interesting villains.

[00:13:46] I love that he And that's it. So it's just kind of this interesting observation about Sunnydale and about Buffy. Sunnydale, town's got quite thin of people. He called me sir, don't you just miss that.

[00:15:01] I mean, it's not a haven for the brothers, you know, strictly the Caucasian persuasion Eat her heart and suck the marrow from her bones. It's like dramatic. No, I'm hungry. Oh! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! And that shot of trick lunging out of the window to grab the drive-through guy is in

[00:16:22] the credits.

[00:16:23] And it's one of the best, like, who played John Ralfio on Parks and Recreation.

[00:18:42] I need anyone, I'm tough, I can take it. And she thinks that she's like the best slayer ever.

[00:18:46] At one point she says to Buffy,

[00:18:47] like maybe you've been doing it too long.

[00:18:49] Like as if like how long has faith been this slayer?

[00:18:52] Like four months?

[00:18:54] Like a few months.

[00:18:55] Yeah.

[00:18:56] And she's like maybe you should, you know,

[00:18:57] back up and back off after doing it for two years,

[00:19:00] which is also not like she's, it's not like Buffy's 80,

[00:19:03] right?

[00:19:03] And let somebody else take over and her look is, contrast in a way that forces Buffy to look inside herself and see that Darkness within herself the darkness that faith has I don't want to get too spoilery about it But it's what I love about faith is is that there isn't anybody else other than another slayer who could provide that for Buffy nobody else can completely understand

[00:20:20] what her life is like and and

[00:20:22] What is going on in her head in any way and faith is the closest that she could have but at the same time

[00:21:24] you know, asking Buffy like what her best kill is or most memorable kill or whatever that is and Faith is...

[00:21:26] Oh, is that their ship name?

[00:21:28] I guess so, yeah.

[00:21:30] They are, you know, kind of going back and forth and Faith starts telling about this

[00:21:37] one fight that she's in, it's such a brilliant introduction

[00:23:02] for her character.

[00:23:03] And I think it might be my favorite introduction

[00:23:05] of a brand new character other than Spike. how slain just makes you all hungry and horny and everyone looks over at Buffy and she's just like sometimes I have a yogurt yeah afterwards I was like oh so different but it's just I love when you're showing her around the school and it's like a tour of all the horrible stuff that's happened in the school like over there's where cycle must kill us and over here's where I got

[00:24:23] sucked into a little grave and it's so funny and just a good time. It's such a good season. The whole faith storyline than Kendra. Yeah. Kendra was more regimented than Buffy who was even remotely attractive They got so much attention that it makes everybody who was already there feel like hey Like what yeah, but it it you know eventually the novelty wears off And if the person is truly interesting they will continue to get a lot of attention

[00:28:23] But if all it was was novelty

[00:29:27] I like the accent. That's, I don't know what it is about, maybe for me it's novelty since, you know, I haven't been to Boston but have always wanted to go, but I love a Boston accent. Like there's just

[00:29:33] something about it that, I don't know, I have a very positive view of Bostonians and I think

[00:29:42] that's partially influenced by my grandpa, but I it constantly once it was released. And I just, I love her so much. And the contrast between her character in that movie and faith is pretty drastic. But at the same time, Eliza Dushku is just,

[00:31:00] she there's such a strength about her that comes through in all the characters she portrays. with Buffy and I love how you know they kind of play off of each other and they both start to learn from the other one and see what the other one has that they might be missing and these know, and it's the thing I compare it with her attitude, Cordelia sometimes. Yeah. With that little bit of that mean girl kind of popularity contest vibe, she's slightly threatened by Cordelia just like she's slightly threatened by

[00:33:42] faith. And sassy Buffy is fun. Yeah, she really is.

[00:34:45] Giles is underneath that tweed, we know he's a hot trot.

[00:34:49] Especially when he's Ripper. Yeah, or like just slightly Ripper.

[00:34:52] That's the sexiest.

[00:34:53] Just like a little bit of Ripper showing through.

[00:34:56] Oh my gosh.

[00:34:57] Yeah.

[00:34:58] So the other outfits in the show are interesting

[00:35:04] in their own way.

[00:35:05] They put Willow always in like, 25. And maybe that's that's true for the character. I don't remember anyone in my high school dressing quite like that but it was the 80s so there was a in the dinner scene. And the dinner scene. And the fair is very cute in that scene too. In the dinner scene, Faith is wearing a sheer top over a solid top, but hers is black. And it's this very stark and not subtle contrast

[00:37:42] between the two of them.

[00:37:43] I love that top too.

[00:37:45] It's just like oh yeah oh gosh yeah that I was just like I wouldn't I don't think a perfect woman. Don't deserve her man. It's true. He doesn't deserve her

[00:40:22] She deserves better than than Xander

[00:41:25] unique and interesting person and he is 100% in.

[00:41:27] He's like, I'm all in, I like all the quirks. See, and that's the contrast.

[00:41:31] I won't go too far down this line of thinking,

[00:41:35] but when you think about the way Oz is with Willow

[00:41:39] and how he truly seems to appreciate

[00:41:44] who she is as a Mary Sue? Yes. Is there a male equivalent for that? I don't know. And I'm just not aware of it. I'm gonna look into that.

[00:43:00] Because he's kind of a boy Mary Sue.

[00:43:03] I really can't think of... Without demeanor in general, it's very clear that she has gone through some stuff. And even though, you know, the Scoobies understand that Buffy had to go through something difficult by killing Angel, they don't quite grasp how

[00:45:45] traumatic that was and poor Buffy, you And Buffy has to see what it does to faith, right? That it almost gets her killed. That it makes her, you know, erratic and unpredictable and not a good slayer. And and she's like, she has to go through that experience and think about how Faith finally admitted what was going on R.O. She's way more interested in the spell than this huge revelation from Buffy that clearly has been haunting her, right? Giles gets it. That is huge. Yeah. Like, it was already traumatic, which I think they, I, I still think Buffy really should tell her mom. I feel like Joyce would understand the need to support her more than anyone else. Like, I think Joyce would see the pain rather than see like the powerful slayer had to go through something hard. I think she'd see my daughter had to go through something really hard. Yeah. I don't know if she ever tells Joyce the whole story.

[00:48:20] I can't remember that either.

[00:48:23] Which is so hard.

[00:48:23] I don't know if she gets the whole story,

[00:48:27] but she, well that's spoilery. Like that, that she could have led with something like that. Yeah. But she didn't want, she's running from the problem and she wanted, she wanted to leave it behind, right? So she thought I'll go to Sunnydale and mess around. But I think also she was like, she wanted help and she didn't have any, literally anyone

[00:49:40] else in the world to go to.

[00:49:41] She has no connections to any other people, right?

[00:49:44] She doesn't have any family opinion of her going in. Like I still, I know I learned that from Buffy or if I was a compassionate person before. Either way is good. Maybe a little of both. Probably. I do wish,

[00:52:22] I wish we would see Buffy sit down with Joyce in this episode and really go into detail about

[00:53:22] He had no idea that it was like basically hitting her with a sledgehammer.

[00:53:23] He's such a nice gesture.

[00:53:25] Yeah, but the emotion, like that was such an emotionally

[00:53:29] charged moment.

[00:53:31] And if you think of the supernatural aspects of this show,

[00:53:35] her channeling that energy into that ring

[00:53:39] and putting it in the exact spot.

[00:53:42] Yeah, it's like he left.

[00:53:44] It has to.

[00:53:45] It's connected to his return.

[00:53:47] It just seems like it.

[00:53:48] Yeah. dark side of the 90s by vice and the other one's called rewind the 90s and it's by national geographic. Neither of them focus on Buffy the dark side of the 90s. There's like one literally one shot of Buffy in their like 90s TV had a lot of female heroes and like that's that's it. She's just one of the female heroes they show but they go through sort of the evolution of badass women in the 90s

[00:55:05] starting with thelma and louise

[00:56:05] and that you can all be different and still be beautiful together. They're really kind of great.

[00:56:07] Zina, who I was a huge fan of in the 90s, and loved.

[00:56:11] Martha Stewart, who became this amazing, huge mogul

[00:56:15] based on cooking and stuff.

[00:56:18] So proving that feminine, home-making pursuits

[00:56:23] aren't just easy or nothing.

[00:56:26] They are a major business in America. blouses and yeah, if you were too feminine, then you couldn't also be professional or tough. It was this, you weren't taking it seriously. And I feel like Buffy is like, no, I can like pink and sparkles and still be a badass. And at the time, I really appreciated it because I was entering the professional workforce as a lawyer

[00:57:43] and trying to figure out how to eyes and bangs and Jess has this little speech about how just because you know she likes to bake cupcakes

[00:59:02] and where all these things doesn't make her you know any less than it doesn't have to be an all leather all the time in order to be a fighter. Although she does put on like, athleisure, they didn't call it that then, when she goes patrolling, she's in like sweats and sneakers and stuff, and I'm like, well, that's a practical choice. I like that, cause she shouldn't be having

[01:00:20] to fight vampires in platform heels.

[01:00:22] I mean, it just seems like it won't really work out.

[01:00:26] You're gonna hurt your ankle.

[01:01:23] and getting to see Snyder in this episode and Joyce's kind of little moment of petty celebration.

[01:01:30] Oh, I love it so much.

[01:01:31] Snyder is such a toad.

[01:01:34] I think he's special.

[01:01:36] Although he has some great moments coming up later

[01:01:38] in the season.

[01:01:39] There's some really fun Snyder stuff.

[01:01:41] Oh gosh.

[01:01:42] In particular in a band candy.

[01:01:46] Yeah, at least these dreams that Buffy is having of Angel are short and it's not like a whole episode There's that one episode in season four. That's the entire episode is dream and I hate it There are funny moments in it, but like it's such a waste of time

[01:03:01] These are short and I was thinking like what is the purpose of these other than to keep

[01:04:01] That's the wrong word. Prophets, whatever.

[01:04:02] Her brain is telling her that Angel's coming back.

[01:04:06] He's trying to warn her.

[01:04:10] That's true.

[01:04:11] Prophecy girl.

[01:04:12] Maybe.

[01:04:14] I don't know how I'm going to edit this conversation

[01:04:16] because of how we started.

[01:04:17] I might just leave all of that in.

[01:04:19] Who cares?

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:22] But I understand the device of the dream sequence.

[01:04:27] It's just not my favorite. them needing to keep David Boryana's kind of fresh in our minds because the more that we see him and Buffy interact, the less willing we as the audience are going to be seeing her trying to move on with Scott. That reminder of what she had with Angel is still there.

[01:05:40] But, I mean, poor Scott, like, he basically had no chance in until they form drops that look like raindrops. It's you know fake rain So that was probably fake swash. I Read somewhere that David Boryana liked to sort of mess around on set and walk around naked to like crack people up and stuff like

[01:07:01] He's one of those people who doesn't mind being naked in front of people

[01:07:04] I wouldn't either if I had that body, X Machina just just falls right into the middle of her plans messing up her life again. Just too funny. I don't hate it though. It makes for some excellent TV. Oh, the best. The best. Shall we get into some trivia? Let's do it.

[01:09:26] as we saw with the master being impaled on a broken table back in Prophecy Girl. And then there were other examples that are spoilers. Yeah. Stay tuned later for

[01:09:33] those maybe. When Buffy asks Giles about the accuracy of her saying leprechauns

[01:09:38] aren't real, Giles responds with as far as I know yes, making this the first

[01:09:43] instance of what would become a running gag through Buffy and Angel let's say if someone was to burglarize it. So I'm like, why doesn't that apply to vampires? It's only logical. Yeah, I've always had a problem that, like what if somebody's living in their car? Does that become their home or is it not because it's a car? Like that seems like the magic. It should be about use not like, yeah.

[01:11:01] Mm-hmm.

[01:11:02] Anyway, that is always bugged me as well.

[01:12:07] naked body in that scene. He doesn't use a body double. And why would he? Because his body is beautiful. Especially if he is comfortable being nude. Like thank you. Thank you David. Thank you.

[01:12:14] You're a beautiful man. So that brings us to the part of the his personality especially. Yeah, he's unique. And a snappy dresser. Alright, let's head over to the bronze and see what some of our listeners have to say. Bronze things. Things of bronze. Dika Jane says, Mr. Trick does not get enough recognition as a villain, so entertaining to watch.

[01:13:44] I feel there is more story to be told about Trick is just totally Giles and is another way of showing just how much he cares about her.

[01:15:02] Obviously, the ending was a massive shock first time around too.

[01:15:06] I was so confused back in the day. I think I'll start using sweet moment. The tension building between faith and Buffy is perfect. Great acting from both Eliza and Cher Michelle Geller. And the way faith beats the vampire shows that she obviously has some issues that haven't come out yet. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's one of those signs pointing to some trauma that faith has experienced for sure. She goes

[01:17:43] on to say after this rewatch, I see now that Buffy wasn't I totally forgot about naked angel dropping in where Buffy placed the ring. Yummy, winky face. Yeah, we definitely talked about that. You are not alone. Glad Mr. Trick has arrived. Absolutely, totally 100% still sliced. I loved everything about this episode.

[01:19:00] This is a little spoilery, so hit your 30 seconds ahead button if you don't want to hear this

[01:19:05] little spoilery part. I loved the Charm Talk last week. One of my favorites, our youngest fur baby is named Phoebe after Alyssa's character on. She did share a photo, adorable. We might have to share that on Instagram. And she said, I'm a Tennessee girl and it's nice to hear how others love Dolly too. She's a national treasure. She really is.

[01:20:21] We bought a Dolly Parton shirt last time.

[01:20:23] Oh, I know.

[01:20:24] Yep.

[01:20:26] So we got an email from Cindy. And it was funny to hear Kara talking about 104.1 KRBE and go Astros. LOL. Yes. Go wait, have I talked about the Astros on this podcast? I think you mentioned that. Or is she just, okay, because Cindy, by the way, I am obsessed with baseball and the Astros.

[01:21:40] I saw them win the World Series in person in 2022 with my brother, and it was like the

[01:21:45] best day of my life.

[01:21:46] So Cindy, I like you.

[01:21:47] You can stay.

[01:22:48] look at that. Buffy does and her until someone loses an eye. That's well there's chunky highlights. These are almost as severe as Kelly Clarkson when she was on idol. That's true.

[01:22:53] Oh man. Pat is a nosy I'm gonna use the good place for natural and safe bench and I honestly

[01:23:01] thought she was either a demon or at least had something to do with Joyce having the mask at her

[01:23:05] house because I haven't watched this episode in so of that time i love it will a calling Buffy B she should know better slayer pride parade i would go to that is it too late to start one that would actually be a really fun parade i think it's obvious there's no spell he is just

[01:24:22] trying to gently get Buffy to open up smooth jiles Sarah Michelle Geller micro expressions are of you my thoughts. The 90s styling is so amazing. Buffy with her chunky blonde highlights and the Rachel style here and little sparkly clips. It is so 90s. I was there and that's pretty much what I was fantastic. Can't wait to see what happens next, even though I know what happens. It's just so much fun to watch. Thank you. Bye! Onwyn is my co-host for The Cast of the Rings, which covers the show The Rings of Power.

[01:27:03] And we also don't know I just I have a really

[01:28:22] I'm right there with you have a really hard time tolerating him on screen and And she wasn't getting to a space where she wanted to talk about it, which, you know, they mentioned the psychologist, you know, it'll be a great that badly. I was curious and the way she was reacting towards him, it was very much reminiscent of a survivor of sexual assault or she really did need to talk about it and that getting her to talk about it was right. And he didn't do it too aggressively, but Sam's right that he sort of presented it to her as she needed to talk about it to save the world again.

[01:32:21] It's dicey.

[01:33:40] Yeah, and I think, you know, intentionally trying to get something out of me that I was not ready to share. I may not have felt great about it. Yeah. I'm gonna have to think about that for a while. It's such an interesting perspective. Sam is going to be on a future episode. She'll be with us for gingerbread who ends up being a vampire. It's so great. I'm going to the limb and say there's a new slayer in town. Well, slay makes you hungry and horny. Meet the infamous buff. I love it. I love the exchange of, it's a long story.

[01:35:00] I got big.

[01:35:01] I guess it's not that long of a story.

[01:35:03] Okay, faith recognized as Jals' sexiness,

[01:35:07] which I mean, I'm a man, I forgot that she comes clean about Angel getting his soul back before they before she stays him. Okay, I have no words for this one. Talk to you later. Oh, that's must be his reaction to Angel falling from the sky. All right, that is the end of the main section of the podcast. Stay tuned for the watchers diaries if you want to hear the

[01:36:23] spoilery discussion. And if you'd like to join it out and you're a fan of, I'd say it gives me kind of lost meets midnight mass is vibes almost. It's a very compelling show. It's way creepier than love. Yes, but it's a definite. It's what they call a puzzle box show. So you're trying to figure out

[01:37:41] what's going on all the time and it's five episodes and I'm going to be joining Kirk and Alex for that podcast. I don't know anything about this character. I'm going in completely brand new. I don't have all the Marvel background but Kirk does so I'm gonna lean on him and it's

[01:39:04] gonna be a lot of fun. That'll be tell. Yeah. That's too bad. That stuff is private. Also, Jarl's keeps them in his office, in his personal files. Most importantly, it would be wrong.

[01:41:24] Lee is sort of shy and you know she's like oh I don't know how to dress in the big city they live in New York City and they have an amazing apartment so

[01:41:28] beautiful and huge and slowly the Jennifer Jason Lee character starts

[01:41:33] dressing like Bridget Fonda cuts her hair like Bridget Fonda like it manipulates

[01:41:39] her boyfriend into sleeping with her all this stuff so that is a major foreshadow

[01:41:45] for the rest of the things that's so 90s

[01:43:00] and it doesn't happen anymore.

[01:43:01] There are a lot of scenes that were dependent on people

[01:43:03] overhearing things on answering machines. when Angel is back and they all find out and they're all angry at Buffy. One, I understand them being angry at Buffy for not telling them about this. Mostly Giles. I can completely understand why Giles is upset that Buffy did not come to him with this information, especially after how, you know, he was kidnapped, tortured, all of that.

[01:44:23] But Xander's reaction still seems to come purely from jealousy. helps. He stops objectifying other women. It's like Anya, finally a woman is enough for him or something. Yeah. Oh, Xander. Yeah, he's complicated. There were a couple of lines in Joyce's speech. Like, it's probably a good thing you were an only child that is

[01:45:43] funny now in retrospect because of course they introduce a second child in season five and we're not happy. I always liked Dawn. I mean, she was a little annoying sometimes, but yeah. The way that her existence impacted Buffy was so interesting to watch. Yeah. And I thought it was clever.

[01:47:00] Like, I mean, I was thrown off by sort of brace ourselves to go through that one. And for what from what I remember, it's just such a brutally realistic portrayal of domestic violence. Yeah. That it can be hard to stomach. So I might have to figure out a palate cleanser after that