2: "School Hard" (BTVS S2E3)

[00:00:00] Fee-fie-foe-fum. I smell the blood of a nice ripe girl. Do we really need weapons for this? I just like them. They make me feel all manly. The last slayer I kill, she begged for her life. You don't strike me as the begging kind. You shouldn't have come here.

[00:00:50] No. I messed up your doilies and stuff. But I just got so bored. I'll tell you what, as a personal favor from me to you, I'll make it quick. It won't hurt a bit. No Spike. It's gonna hurt a lot.

[00:01:31] Hello everybody and welcome to the podcast on Earth. And I'm Karen. And this is Still Slaying, a Buffy-verse podcast dedicated to all things Buffy. This episode we're gonna start with highlights from season one and the first half of season two.

[00:01:46] Then talk about season two, episode three, School Hard, directed by John T. Kretschmer and written by J.W. David. J.W., by the way, Joss Whedon, of course. David Greenwald and Rob... How do you say that? Day Hotel? Des Hotel? The original air date was September 29th of 1997.

[00:02:14] I really enjoyed rewatching the episode to get ready for this. I think it's a perfect introduction to the whole series. It really is. It almost feels like a pirate. Pirate? That's how sleepy I am. Pilot? Oh my gosh.

[00:02:31] I did not have coffee this morning and I'm gonna blame it on that. But yeah, I think this is kind of where I feel like the series kicks off. Yeah. If I do rewatches... You're just gonna ignore that my lizard is crawling on my head.

[00:02:53] But when I do rewatches, this is where I usually start. Because one, obviously Spike is introduced in this episode. And I just feel like this is when the series really starts going. We have a solid villain and things start to pick up.

[00:03:12] Cordelia kind of becomes officially one of the Scoobies. It seems like with this episode so it's a good one. It's great. We get a significant time with Buffy and her mother, which is a really important relationship that hasn't been explored much up to this point.

[00:03:33] And we all sort of start falling in love with Joyce Summers at this point. It turns out she's not like a stuffy, annoying, Gen X mom. She's kind of fierce in this episode. You see that come out.

[00:03:47] And also just for fun, since you know this is a 90 show and it came out so long ago. I figured I'd look up and see what was going on when it originally aired in the world. And a couple of fun facts. Well, it starts off kind of morbid,

[00:04:07] but jury selection had just started for the Terry Nichols Oklahoma bombing trial on, I know. This is hilarious, Kara, because I did the exact same thing. No. I love that. Yeah, I was like, I wonder. I came up with the same facts. I had that one.

[00:04:24] And then I thought to give a sense of what was going on in the world, the Northern Ireland peace talks had resumed earlier that month. Princess Diana's funeral was earlier that month. The only other things I looked up were the Emmy Awards

[00:04:42] and what was the number one song at the time. So, you know, the number one song that day, September 29th, 1997 was Four Seasons of Loneliness by Boys to Men, which I remember. And Frazier won its fourth Emmy Award for Outstanding Comedy in Law & Order

[00:05:04] won its first outstanding drama series Emmy Award. Nice. Well, in addition to those amazing comments, fun facts, LA Confidential was number one at the box office. Also at the box office or at the on the silver screen were In-N-Out and the Full Monty,

[00:05:29] both considered to be extremely progressive films because In-N-Out had character coming out of the closet. Of course, you know, all the gay characters played by straight characters in that movie because it was the 90s or straight actors in that movie because it was the 90s,

[00:05:46] but kind of hilarious. Tom Selleck plays one of the gay characters. And the Full Monty was, I don't know if you've seen it. It's an amazing comedy that recently has tried to come out as like a TV series with the same actors. I haven't watched it.

[00:06:05] But when it came out, it was like a really big deal for a little indie film from the UK. It did really well for us. I remember the poster for it from when I was like, I remember seeing that and then in Blockbuster later on.

[00:06:20] I remember seeing that cover. But I had not seen either of those movies until a couple years ago actually because I was what fourth grade, I think when they came out. Yeah, you were a little young. But in and out was, it was enjoyable.

[00:06:34] I remember not being allowed to see it. And so I wanted to watch it for the longest time. It's definitely interesting now watching it with, you know, today's lens. That's for sure. I love that you also looked up fun facts about that time in history. That's great.

[00:06:54] I was like, oh my God, our brains are on the same wavelength. Perfect. Awesome. So yeah, the nineties were a different time. I also thought it was so funny watching the episode, the incredibly awkward break for commercial. Right?

[00:07:12] It's so funny in a streaming environment because it's like they there's one that really jumped out at me in the episode where, you know,

[00:07:19] Buffy's walking and then it, you know, goes to black and then it comes back and it sort of backs up a minute a second and you get to watch Buffy walking again. I'm like, God, that must be so weird for people who haven't watched TV commercials.

[00:07:33] Who are not used to that. It definitely adds to the nostalgia of a rewatch. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I love how we do still have the, you know, Giles watcher voiceover in this episode. I can't remember when that actually goes away.

[00:07:51] I think it makes it most of season two before they take it away. I like it. I like it for like the first two or three times I hear it and then I'm like, skip, skip.

[00:08:04] That's probably why since it's been like four years since I did a full rewatch, I'm still like, oh, Giles, this is great. Yeah. So funny. All right, let's talk about season one, which we're not covering in full, but we have a little summary of it all for everybody.

[00:08:23] So just to catch you up. Buffy Summers high school sophomore is kicked out of her school in Los Angeles for being a troublemaker and possibly burning down the gym. It's unclear. And so she moves to Sunnydale with her mother who's recently divorced. That's Joyce Summers.

[00:08:42] Buffy meets Rupert Giles right away. He's the school librarian at the high school, but he is also her watcher sent to Sunnydale by the mysterious Watchers Council to guide Buffy. He tells her about the Hellmouth. He says that it has mystical energy that draws evil beings toward it.

[00:09:01] Buffy initially resists her destiny as the chosen one. She tells him she's retired, but eventually accepts, you know, her calling and starts to settle into her new high school.

[00:09:14] She makes friends pretty quickly with Willow and Xander after the two of them find out about her whole secret life. She has to rescue them from vampires like right away in the first episode.

[00:09:27] And develops kind of an uneasy relationship with Cordelia, the resident popular mean girl, rich girl character. Over the course of season one, Buffy fights vampires, witches, nightmares, possessed humans, curses, dating and bullies. Typical high school. Yeah. It's very, actually that sounds a lot like my high school experience.

[00:09:54] No hyenas, but... Oh gosh, the Hyena episode. I forgot about that. I love the Hyena episode. It's so ridiculous. It's really ridiculous. And I love the episode with Clea Duvall. It's at the end of season one and she's a student who just feels completely ignored.

[00:10:15] And she's so ignored that she just turns invisible. And she's just brilliant. Like to this day, it's so well done and so appropriate with high school. It's just... Completely. So there's a mysterious stranger in Sunnydale named Angel.

[00:10:35] He wears lots of like long coats and dark colors and he's very handsome. He shows up to help Buffy from time to time when she's in danger. He's very mysterious. And eventually he does reveal the truth about himself, which is that he's a vampire.

[00:10:49] But he has been cursed by Gypsies with the return of his human soul. So he feels torment for all the evil things he's done as a vampire. And he's come to Sunnydale seeking redemption. I just want to add a side note about the word Gypsy.

[00:11:04] It's not a politically correct word. If the show were being made today, they would call them Romani. That's what those people prefer to be called. But it's all over the show. So it's just dated language and we're just going to have to deal with it.

[00:11:19] But I want to acknowledge it. Definitely. Definitely one of those ways you can tell that this was a 90s show. Later on in the season one finale, Buffy faces the master even though a prophecy foretells her death at his hands.

[00:11:35] The master actually succeeds in getting himself untrapped by the Hellmouth and ends up drowning Buffy. So she does die periodically. Fortunately, Xander revives her and she's able to defeat the master and closes the Hellmouth. And you know, the first season of Buffy is a very uneven season.

[00:11:59] And the fashion is very special and reminiscent of the 90s. It's truly awful. It really is. It's like ill-fitting, like bargain basement clothes. And I do agree. The best episodes are the third, sixth, seventh, and eleventh. Just in case you're wanting to do a rewatch.

[00:12:21] If you've never seen Buffy, I mean there's no harm in going back and watching all of them. But don't let that discourage you from continuing on with the show. Because there are some gems in season one and it just gets better and better.

[00:12:38] I just don't want people to get to watch like episode one and episode two and be like, I don't think this show is for me. Like don't judge it based on first season. So season two opens after summer break.

[00:12:54] So they're returning for their junior year of high school and Buffy returns to Sunnydale after spending the summer with her father in LA and she is out of sorts. She has a lot of lingering issues with her whole death and resurrection.

[00:13:08] And she's like mean to her friends and it's a whole, there's a whole episode about her just being in a bad mood. She eventually works out her issues by destroying what remains of the master.

[00:13:20] And for reasons I've never understood, the master's bones remain even though all other vampires turn to dust when they get staked. But anyway, the master's bones are around and Buffy destroys them. That's episode one of season two.

[00:13:36] And then in the second episode of season two, a bunch of bodies go missing from graves. All like teenage girls bodies and Buffy of course investigates and eventually figures out that this nerdy kid has been creating a vampire, not a vampire, I'm sorry, a Frankenstein style girl monster.

[00:14:00] And at first they think it's for him to have as like a sex toy or something, but it turns out it's for his brother who died in I think a car accident and then this nerdy kid reanimated him. And it turns out they need a living brain.

[00:14:15] Like all the other parts can come from dead bodies, but they need a living brain. So they the guy kidnaps of course Cordelia because she's like the prettiest girl in school and he's trying to make a bride for his brother. Buffy saves him.

[00:14:31] It's sad because it's about grief, right? Like losing a brother when you're young like that is. Well the scenes with his mother, you know, you see that she's rewatching all of his old like great football games and in her grief process is essentially ignoring the son that remains.

[00:14:57] So I, you know, it's a kind of a odd and off putting theme behind it with building a teenage girl. But there are some pretty, you know, poignant comments on grief in that one.

[00:15:16] Yeah. And you know, Buffy can save the day in that Cordelia doesn't have her head chopped off and and this guy is not going to make any more Frankenstein monsters, but like he still has that grief. His brother is still dead. The mother is still ignoring him like.

[00:15:33] One of the things I love about Buffy the Vampire Slayer is that it it shows the dark side of adolescence and the sad things that are going on in people's lives and

[00:15:45] it externalizes them as these monsters and demons and magic, but they are incredibly relatable problems that the characters are going through. I can see that even. It's fantastic as an adult watching it. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. As a kid you're just like monsters weird. Still entertaining.

[00:16:10] So we are going to go on to talk a little bit more in depth about episode season two, episode three school hard.

[00:16:18] First, a fun fact, it is an overt homage to the movie die hard. That's why the name is school hard and that's why there are scenes where Buffy like crawls through the ceiling vents and stuff. That's a very intentional homage to die hard.

[00:16:34] Fantastic. Which I enjoyed thinking about Spike as Hans Gruber. Oh, yeah. And picturing him getting thrown off the top of the Nakatomi tower. I was into that. Oh, gosh. So, Karen, you want to start us off with your first point?

[00:16:50] Sure. So it was it was difficult to pick just, you know, one to start off with. And I know we're going to have to talk about it. It's the first appearance in the show of Spike and Spike arriving as this new villain figure.

[00:17:08] And he's kind of dynamic from the moment he is on screen. And I, it's no secret already that I just absolutely love Spike. And I think you do too.

[00:17:22] So him finally making an appearance was my number one point and getting to see his interaction with Buffy for the first time that moment he first sees her in the bronze. And even getting to see his first little interaction with Joyce is something that's pretty great.

[00:17:45] So he's such a fully realized character already when he in that first moment, right? He destroys the welcome to Sunnydale sign just drives right over it.

[00:17:57] And it gets a crap. And then he steps out of the out of his like muscle car, right? It's like a cool vintage car. I think it's a disotto. Not that I'm a car person.

[00:18:10] And he's got like boots and this long leather jacket. And then they, you know, the camera pans up and you've got the bleach blonde, you know, Billy Idol style hair.

[00:18:20] And he's got the sneer like Sid Vicious and smoking a cigarette. And like as a as a viewer, you're immediately like, what's going to happen next? Like, this guy looks fun. And he does not disappoint. He's constantly entertaining.

[00:18:37] He's such a fully fleshed out character. Like, you know exactly who he is from the moment he steps on screen. And it is kind of like James Masters. Oh, he's such a good actor.

[00:18:52] He does a great job with Spike too. I think he is so thoughtful in the choices that he makes as an actor for Spike.

[00:19:03] And, you know, he says, I believe I can't remember which interview it is. I tried to find a link but he played Spike as being attracted to Buffy from the get go.

[00:19:15] And that comes across in that one glance when he sees her at the bronze and they already have this kind of Woody Bantor back and forth.

[00:19:26] And I just remember the first time watching this when I was, you know, nine or so. I was immediately like, who is this guy? Like, this is fun. Yeah.

[00:19:40] He's like, he's so much more interesting in some ways than Angel. Angel is this like tortured, like, you know, lurking in the shadows, dropping, you know, dire facts.

[00:19:55] And then like hiding, you know, like leaving the room and and Spike is he's out. He's loud and he's present and he's he's full of life, considering he's dead.

[00:20:08] Right. He's like, he's so energetic and he's got amazing body language. He just like he moves all the time like he knows you think he's sexy. Like that's just that leather coat on him compared, you know, and Angel does also often appear.

[00:20:24] In a leather coat with Spike, it moves with him. It's like a part of him and with Angel every time I see him standing there in leather.

[00:20:37] He just seems so stiff and reserved. And there's even, you know, like you said, Angel will show up and deliver some sort of brooding commentary or, you know, words of wisdom and disappear that quote.

[00:20:54] That Xander says in this episode kind of perfectly encapsulates that where Angel standing there and Xander says something to him and he just is already walked out. He's like, I'm gonna have to put a get a collar with a bell on it for that guy. Like it's true.

[00:21:12] Angel is mysterious and he's lurks and like is 100% in your face immediately. And I, one of the things that I so appreciate about Spike, and by the way, this was one of my points too. Nice. I'm just merging with you.

[00:21:31] And I think that is that he shows how smart he is right off the bat, right? He first he checks Buffy out at the bronze and then he sets up a test.

[00:21:41] And you know, he gets his, he does, he never cares about his millions, right? Spike. Sorry. This is a little bit of a spoiler, but Spike has minions and overtime and he does not care if they get killed.

[00:21:54] So he sets up his minion to get slain by Buffy and she does so and they have a little moment in the alley where he says he's going to kill her on Saturday.

[00:22:03] And it's so smart that he like lured her outside. He set up a vampire kill so that he could watch her work. We haven't really seen that kind of cleverness from other vampires on the show and it sets him apart.

[00:22:21] And then, you know, Angel of course with his dire like, oh, he's worse than other vampires. Don't underestimate him and then he just appears annoying angel. But it's true with Spike. Like they do an excellent job establishing how he is different than other vampires.

[00:22:41] You know, when he walks in and is talking to the anointed one and there's that other vampire who makes a comment about being at the crucifixion.

[00:22:52] And Spike's kind of introduction is like scoffing at him. Like, you know, if every vampire who was actually at the crucifixion, you know, said they were at the crucifixion was actually there.

[00:23:04] It would have been like Woodstock and he goes on to talk about how he actually was at Woodstock. And he just has such authority immediately. And we find out that he's, you know, killed Slayers before, which is a pretty big deal.

[00:23:21] And I do like how there's a parallel between Spike not necessarily being like other vampires and Buffy also not necessarily being like other Slayers in that, you know, he observed she's got a family and friends and a life for herself outside of slang.

[00:23:41] So the setup of these two being opposed is but also kind of parallel. It's so well done.

[00:23:53] And Spike is attached to Drusilla. Drusilla is weak and ailing for reasons that are kind of vague, but it has something to do with something that happened in Prague where she almost died.

[00:24:08] And Spike's goal in coming to Sunnydale in the first place is to heal her so that she can be at full strength killing again.

[00:24:15] And they have this great, like sort of kinky scene where they've got Sheila tied up in the bedroom and they like fool around a little bit in front of her while she's tied up and gagged. And then Spike is like, eat something and like shoves Sheila at Drusilla.

[00:24:32] And I just think about like Sheila who's this like bad girl who thinks she's so tough because she like dates guys named meat pie or whatever. And smoked in.

[00:24:41] Yeah, like, yeah, that's small time bad girl stuff when you're faced with this several hundred year old vampire who might think the dolls are real people and needs to eat you to stay alive.

[00:24:56] It's just, it's funny to see Sheila go from like I'm such a badass to like fuck. I'm in trouble. No, this is not good. Yeah. And Drusilla is, I mean she's another character that's just so well fleshed out and she is creepy.

[00:25:17] Like from the very beginning, the way she talks and her movements are just kind of killing and her dynamic with yeah, she doesn't seem as human as other vampires. She seems more almost possessed. We will get more Drusilla backstory in a much, much future episode.

[00:25:46] But the actress actor Juliet Landau who is Martin Landau's granddaughter I think was offered the role without an audition based on the movie Edward. Josh Whedon saw Edward and was like that I want her to play a vampire my show. Excellent choice.

[00:26:06] And then I think he just was like show me what you think it will be like. Like I think she creates a lot of what we see on screen for Drusilla. Oh yeah. She's a remarkable actor and it's a really fun.

[00:26:21] I can imagine if I were an actor how fun it would be to play a character like that. So fun because there's, it's such a good juxtaposition of cruelty and innocence because she's you know she's all in white.

[00:26:35] She's kind of the ethereal. She has you know this doll collection that she's caring for but in an instant she's cruel as anything and when she kind of you know cut spike with her fingernail and licks the blood you're like oh okay so this is the dynamic that we have here.

[00:26:58] This couple's not like other couples.

[00:27:00] So that's another thing I think that sets spike apart is you see how much he truly cares for Drusilla and it's almost you know it's kind of tender in the way that he treats her and we have not seen that dynamic at all between vampires before. It's true.

[00:27:24] All the other vampires that we've seen up to this point in the series except for Angel are just like soulless eating killing machines every now and then they have a funny line but you know most of them don't seem to have attachments to each other or to anything

[00:27:42] and it's it makes spike and Drusilla just jump off the page. That's true. Like these characters matter. My understanding is that spike was intent originally only intended to be in like two or three episodes but you know the character was so fantastic and beloved that they revised it.

[00:28:04] I love those stories. That's like Darrell Dixon right he was like a made for TV wasn't in the comics nobody knew if he would last and he turns out to be awesome. Jesse Pinkman is another character who wasn't meant to last the whole series.

[00:28:17] That's breaking bad in case you haven't watched Breaking Bad. And then he's just so good that they just changed the way they were going to do the series to incorporate him and I love when that happens.

[00:28:28] I remember stories about when lost was being cast that there were a couple of actors that came through and they were like we don't want you for this role we're going to write a role for you.

[00:28:39] Like and that the characters in Lost some of them were just like created to suit particular actors. What is it? It's just cool. Jorge Garcia is Hurley if I remember correctly that was one of those. Yeah and I think Saeed was another one. It's good.

[00:28:56] Like it's hard to imagine any of those shows without those characters and it's the same thing with Spike and Buffy. Yeah. He's just he's part of the DNA. It's true of the show and he's what often he's the best thing of any given episode.

[00:29:18] Let's see if I had other stuff about Spike. Oh, I guess it is important to point out that Spike calls Angel his sire. He makes that reference and Xander is just kind of like you know what the hell is a sire like what does that mean?

[00:29:36] And I know there's been talk before among Buffy fans about whether or not that was a mistake that they just had thought, you know, they were going to make Angel his sire. And turns out I guess that's a little spoilery.

[00:29:55] Turns out that Joss Whedon in interviews ended up saying that a sire can also mean any of your vampire ancestors. So, you know, anybody that's in your lineage would be considered a sire and the master. An angel is part of Spike's lineage.

[00:30:20] So, you know, whether or not it's the person who actually turned you into a vampire. Joss Whedon had kind of course corrected, I guess in interviews afterwards to explain that. But I think that's the first time we have a mention of Angel as a sire in the series.

[00:30:43] Yeah, I think so too. And I think even of the concept in general, I don't know if the concept has been brought up for this.

[00:30:53] Even when we meet in the very first season, Darla is in an episode and she is Angel sire, but I don't think they sorry. I am not doing a good job of avoiding spoilers.

[00:31:08] So, James Masters as an actor has become really prolific in sci-fi in the science fiction world. He's been on a lot of other shows that are part of the CW which is the resulting network after the WB and UPN merged.

[00:31:28] He was on Smallville. He was in, I want to say Legends of Tomorrow. He was in the Marvel Runaways TV show. He was definitely in Doctor Who. He pops up a lot and it's always to this day surprising to me that he doesn't really have a birth.

[00:31:55] I know. I'm always like, oh, that's right. He's an American. He's very convincing and I am not a judge at all. Like, I have no credibility in terms of judging how good a British accent is, but he convinces me every time.

[00:32:14] And he's supposed to be one that is also kind of a great person at the cons to interact with. So that just makes me appreciate him even more. Yeah, he seems like a good person. That's awesome.

[00:32:30] All right. I'm going to jump in with a few Buffy vs. Basics. Just in case anyone didn't pick this stuff up. Slayer, one teenage girl chosen to fight the forces of darkness.

[00:32:44] The opening monologue says into every generation a slayer is born, but really it's there's multiple slayers because when a slayer dies, another one is called and most slayers are only slayers for like three or four years. So it's not once a generation. It's like often. Watchers.

[00:33:05] So we don't have a lot of information about the Watchers Council at this point. We just know that it's a bunch of people in England who have a lot of knowledge about the history and lore around demons and monsters and magic and stuff like that.

[00:33:19] And that Giles is one of these people. He's a watcher.

[00:33:23] You know, the fact that he's a librarian is kind of perfect because he's the source of all the knowledge that Buffy needs about how to kill certain demons or what they might be doing in Sonningadale or various things like that that help her do her job.

[00:33:39] He also is responsible for training her. So there's a lot of scenes of them like she's like doing calisthenics or target practice or whatever with him when they're having conversations.

[00:33:50] The Hellmouth is underneath Sunnydale High School, and it is a source of dark mystic energy that draws things to Sunnydale. So that's why Sunnydale has such a high concentration of creepy crawlies and vampires and stuff.

[00:34:05] It's a portal to a hell dimension. It's unclear to me even after all this time if it's like the hell or just any hell. But there's like monsters and stuff in there.

[00:34:18] And then vampires. They are undead beings that are created when an existing vampire drains the blood of a human victim and makes that human drink the vampire blood.

[00:34:27] That's how they become a vampire. Usually the human looks like they're dead for a little while, often long enough for them to be buried and then they crawl their way out of the grave.

[00:34:38] They have all their memories from when they were human, but they don't have a soul.

[00:34:43] And they need blood to survive and they're basically like killing machines. They are stronger than humans, faster than humans, have better reflexes, have, you know, stronger senses, which is really funny because they don't breathe, but they all seem to have an amazing sense of smell.

[00:35:00] To kill them, steak through the heart, beheading, holy water and sunlight. They're repulsed by crosses. Oh, I think you can kill them with fire. You can burn a vampire down. Yeah, in the Buffyverse you can. Sure.

[00:35:19] Yeah, in this universe, yeah. And they can't come in unless you invite them. That rule does important. And I think that's all the big ones. Those are the keys, that's for sure. I'm trying to think.

[00:35:36] Oh, there was one other moment that I thought was a fun spike moment with Spike and Angel more of a, you know, reference to the 90s and of the time. When he, Angel is essentially pretending to be Angelus who Spike is familiar with.

[00:35:59] And he says something to the effect of like tricking Buffy with his nice guy act, social get off his back and all that. And Spike says, oh, you know, they're still falling for the good ol' Anne Rice routine.

[00:36:15] Which, you know, immediately if you're familiar at all with Anne Rice's books, the movie interview with a vampire, Angel is very much, you know, tortured like Louis. And Spike is definitely a little bit more to Lestets. Lestets.

[00:36:36] I love that exchange so much. And how we as an audience at first you're like, oh, maybe he's falling for this. Like, good job, Angel. Angel is coming in to save the day again.

[00:36:47] And then when you essentially see that Spike immediately called him on it and immediately knew something was off, that just heightens him as a potential villain even more. Where it's like, oh, yeah. He's smart. He's really smart.

[00:37:04] You know, he's got all these vampires with him when he attacks the school and they're all dingbats. Right? They're like the slayer either went that way or that way. It's like, okay, so any of the ways.

[00:37:15] And then that one guy who's like, oh, this door is really solid. And then Spike says use your head and takes the guy's head and slams it into the firebox.

[00:37:25] You know, the brick glass in case of fire and gets an axe out and hands it to the guy. Oh my God, it's so funny. I'm like, yeah, use your head. I do love.

[00:37:35] I guess that was another one of them can bring me to another one of my points, which is Principal Snyder in this episode. Oh, yeah. He is just, you know, so insufferable. But I like, you know, I enjoy when Principal Snyder's on screen. Like, I think it's entertaining.

[00:37:54] I think he's funny. But the fact that he's immediately like it's a gang on PCP when they all burst in. I remember first time thinking, oh my God, this guy is such an idiot.

[00:38:10] But we see at the end when he has an exchange with one of the police officers who shows up. It's like, you know, what do you want us to say?

[00:38:18] Like the usual gang on PCP, like really indicating that Snyder has a better idea of what's going on in his town and in his school than he lets on. And I just, I love that even that one little moment gives more to his character.

[00:38:39] It's a little bit more character development and makes him a bit more mysterious and unbelievable. Like it's hard to believe how oblivious most people in Sunnydale are to all the monsters in Sunnydale. Especially with the face changes with vampires. Yeah.

[00:38:58] It's just like, come on guys, like what do you think is going on? It's like last I checked PCP does not change your face like that. Yeah. How many people have died of suspicious neck wounds?

[00:39:12] Like when are you going to start like, I don't know why everyone in Sunnydale doesn't wear like a metal collar. Just like protecting their neck at all times. That medical examiner must be the busiest and worst medical examiner in all.

[00:39:29] Or that medical examiner is also a vampire and just like uses that as a cover to get blood. Be pretty smart. Gross. Oh gosh. That is the plot basically of the show I zombie. I love that show.

[00:39:44] The main character is turned into a zombie and in order to get access to brains, she goes to work at a morgue. It's a bit more ethically sourced. It's a pretty funny show.

[00:39:55] So I thought I'd talk a little bit about Sarah Michelle Geller who is in the lead role as Buffy.

[00:40:03] I think we should try to not spend a ton of time talking about all the actors all at once but like let's sprinkle it through when they have a really big episode. Sarah Michelle Geller was a child actor.

[00:40:17] She was discovered like in New York City on the streets or something. She went to the high school for the performing arts in New York City, the one that was famously copied for the show and movie fame.

[00:40:28] Right before Buffy, she had been playing a mean girl on All My Children for many years called Kendall Hart and she did one a daytime Emmy for that performance.

[00:40:39] And then she auditioned for the role of Cordelia originally because you know mean girl mean girl but I'm glad they saw something else in her because I think she's great as well. She's played some other really note noteworthy roles.

[00:40:52] She was Daphne in the live action Scooby-Doo movies alongside her future husband Freddie Prince. She was in I Know What You Did Last Summer, Scream 2, The Grudge, some Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie I've never seen, a movie called Southland Tales.

[00:41:11] But my all time favorite movie of hers is Cruel Intentions which is a teen drama version of Dangerous Liaisons. Came out in 1999 and she plays Catherine, I think it's Mertwell or more Mertool. And she is amazing in that role. That movie is so good.

[00:41:32] It's like one of the earliest we see Reese Witherspoon in a lead role and Ryan Philippi. That's where they met and they later got married. Also Selma Blair is in it. She's amazing. It is so good.

[00:41:46] Joshua Jackson is a very different character in that movie than he usually portrays and it's kind of fun to see. That's one that I should not have been allowed to see in fifth grade.

[00:41:57] I think I was when I saw it but as a 20-something year old when I watched it again, I got a better appreciation for it. It's a fantastic movie. I really recommend it. Maybe we'll cover it on our future episode like in between seasons.

[00:42:15] Most recently Sarah Michelle Geller is in a show on Paramount Plus called The Wolf Pack. I watched the first season. It's pretty good. It's not as good as Buffy but it's pretty good. She had some bad luck.

[00:42:29] She was in a show that was very well received and got great ratings and critical acclaim, starring opposite Robin Williams and then he died and that show got pulled of course.

[00:42:41] It was a bummer because I was really excited to see her like back on top because I think she's really talented. Playing Buffy earned her five Teen Choice Awards, a Saturn Award and a Golden Globe Award nomination.

[00:42:54] A lot of people say she was horribly overlooked and that there should have been a lot more Emmys but the Emmys typically especially back in the 90s just did not pay any attention to genre shows and it's still kind of true.

[00:43:09] It takes a lot for a genre show to get Emmy nominations. Last of us got a bunch this year and that was kind of shocking. Yeah, which I always wonder if say AMC had picked up Last of Us instead of HBO

[00:43:23] I wonder how much attention that show would have gotten from award shows. HBO does always clean up at the Emmys. They're basically up against themselves. It's like Last of Us vs. White Lotus. That's true. And any iteration of Game of Thrones. Yeah. Fun.

[00:43:51] But she really did. I agree that Sarah Michelle Giller did not get enough credit for Buffy because it's such a fine line. You know, she's playing your normal teenage girl who's worried about school and parent-teacher conferences and not getting in trouble with her mom or the principal.

[00:44:13] And you know, the way that she talks to Willow about Angel, especially in this season, is so just like innocent and you really see how young she is and at the same time she is this excellent fighter and this powerful character

[00:44:39] and she just kind of radiates both strength and vulnerability at the same time and I think that can be incredibly hard to pull off. And I know that Joss Whedon and coming up with this idea for Buffy being like

[00:44:56] the blonde girl is no longer the damsel in Distradas. She's the heroine who's kind of kick-ass. And I think that could have gone, you know, a few different ways that would have been problematic and over-sexualized and the way Sarah Michelle... And like action figure Barbie. Yes.

[00:45:17] Like a little too like maybe Tomb Raider or something like that. Yeah. Too badass. Yeah. But Sarah Michelle Giller makes Buffy feel so real and lived in. Yeah. She's soft. Yes. She's just...

[00:45:31] And she really, I mean, I think that Sarah Michelle Geller at the time was in her 20s playing a teenager but it's incredibly believable that she is afraid of getting expelled by the principal in that meeting.

[00:45:47] Like her eyes are huge and she's like, it could have been nice. Yeah. Like she's just, she's panicking. She's insecure. She has trouble with French class, right? She needs help studying and she calls herself an idiot, an imbecile. She's a kid.

[00:46:03] I never caught this line before but after Willow says to her like you said whatever it is, the cow, something at midnight. And then she goes, and you said it wrong. Buffy says, just stink which I thought was so funny and I don't remember hearing that before.

[00:46:20] That's good. That is... That's good. You do. You do stink at French, Buffy. Well and even Willow kept quickly calculating if, even if Angel had only been on two dates a year and he's been alive for 200 years, that's 400 women

[00:46:37] and Buffy like that gets to her and as a teenage girl it absolutely would. And it's just, they do a great job of balancing the kind of fantastical elements of this show that we call them the Scooby Gang affectionately.

[00:46:55] Like they're kind of, you know, these monster fighters who are also fighting metaphoric monsters in high school dealing with first loves and Xander finding that tampon in Buffy's purse and like freaking out.

[00:47:13] Like stuff like that just adds so much to the dynamics of the show and I think that's one of the main reasons that it continues to this day to be so popular and people are still finding it and falling in love with it. I agree.

[00:47:33] It's, it's the characters are very well rounded and lived in like you said and interesting right? Like there's a lot of ways they could have written, you know, Willow the nerdy student that wouldn't have been so charming and so like quirky in her own particular way. Right?

[00:47:59] She's not a typical nerd. She's her own kind of nerd and it's delightful. And then Xander have a lot of problems with Xander. He often says like really inappropriate things. He's constantly sexualizing Buffy all the time, but just all the time.

[00:48:19] It does not take no for an answer from her. Like she tries so hard to hint to him so many times. But he's not boring. He's funny.

[00:48:30] He has an interesting like home life that we'll learn about later and you know, he has often has really, really great quippy lines. He's really often the one who sums up a situation in modern terms. I love when he does that.

[00:48:46] You know, Giles will come out with some like long description of some like demonic whatever and and then Xander will be like, so he's just hungry for lollipops or whatever it is. It'll be one sentence and it'll be hilarious. True.

[00:49:04] But I think that's a good point too is there are so many characters that could have been, you know, their stereotypes like Willow being the nerd or even Cordelia being the mean girl.

[00:49:15] Charisma Carpenter is another one who does a great job of, you know, bringing more to her character and more nuance because I think Cordelia, I may be remembering this wrong but I don't think her character was supposed to have been as prominently featured in the show.

[00:49:34] And just the way that Charisma portrayed her kept him coming back in like her banter with Xander. It's just, you know, they all feel like their own people. Nobody feels like, you know, a two dimensional stereotypical high school movie character.

[00:49:55] And I mean some of the like really, really side characters are but oh yeah. Anyone that's got a name usually has like an interesting story to them and it's true.

[00:50:08] It's, it is the key to why people love the show so much is that you really do grow to love the characters even, or especially because of their flaws.

[00:50:21] Like you can really identify with them like I can identify with Buffy being almost equally concerned about her hair as she is with this like feast of St. Vigis. You know, she's like this conditioner, this new cream rinse is neither creamy nor rinsing.

[00:50:39] Like I'm like yeah that would annoy me too if I'd spent all my allowance on it and like you know she wants not to disappoint her mother and she doesn't know how to make lemonade which Cordelia have some lemonade. It's one of my favorite.

[00:50:55] Oh God, the idea of lemonade with no sugar appeals actually to me a little bit because I like I like really sour tasting things but

[00:51:04] Alison Hanigan does a really good job of portraying what that must taste like when she quickly puts the cup down and then goes it's good. Don't worry. I'll support here.

[00:51:19] Yeah, I think that Sarah Michelle Geller was the only actor going into the series that had like a somewhat recognizable name. Charisma Carpenter had been a cheerleader I think before professional cheerleader.

[00:51:34] We talked about Anthony Stewart head last time and those Tasters Choice commercials but Nicholas Brendan wasn't unknown. Alison Hanigan had like a decent kid acting career before this. She really took off after with like American Pie and then Hell and Your Mother and everything like that.

[00:51:52] I heard a story somewhere that David Boreanis was discovered while he was walking his dog. I think I remember reading that is so random. I mean it's very Los Angeles right? Yeah.

[00:52:04] I think he was already in LA he was trying to be an actor and then like somebody saw him and was like hey do you want to be an actor and he was like yes. He's gone on to have an amazing career. Oh yeah. Bones.

[00:52:16] I loved Bones even though it's kind of formulaic. I really enjoyed watching it and what did that run like 12 seasons or something? It was crazy. It was a long time. Yeah. And then he had another show right after that called like Navy Seals or something. Yeah.

[00:52:30] I tried to watch it. It wasn't really my thing. I think my mom that was one of those shows that my mom definitely got into. Yeah. He's I mean those are big network shows. That's he's like a you know a reliable star for the big networks CBS.

[00:52:44] There's a broth on CBS. They must love him over there. I mean Bones was a wild success. He'll always be angel to me. Yes. It's hard to see him as anything else. Although Sealy Booth is probably a close second. Like that that worked for me.

[00:53:02] I mean let's not mince words. The man is very handsome. He really is. As Sealy Booth he gets to do a lot of really really cool looking action stuff where he's always the hero. Yeah. He looks amazing and he gets to be funny sometimes on that show.

[00:53:24] He didn't get to be funny much on Buffy and then when he gets his spin off the show called Angel. Yeah. They they give him more opportunities to be funny which I appreciate because he's very funny.

[00:53:37] He's always a little in his spin off and you get a little bit of lighter angel which is fun. I won't spoil. Still plenty of brooding. Why? Yeah. There's still plenty of brooding but there's just moments of joy. I'm just going to bring up the topic.

[00:53:54] We started on it a little bit of joy summers. Yes. Listeners if you're watching Buffy for the first time just I don't know hold on to the picture of Joyce in your head when the show gets a little hard to handle. She's the anchor.

[00:54:11] She's the source of love and softness and normalcy in Buffy's world and she just gets better and better from this point on like she just becomes more and more of a character.

[00:54:26] You love Joyce and I love how we see her kind of you know one take charge on her own throughout this episode and how much she does trust Buffy because you know when she's stuck in that room with Snyder and then I can't remember the other teacher.

[00:54:46] It's just some other dude that they're in there with and they're trying to get out and like go through the window and she's just like Buffy said to stay put like what are you doing?

[00:55:00] Basically listen to my daughter and she just she trusts her and she kind of stands up for her with Snyder and she gets kind of snarky with Snyder and he makes that comment you know I'm beginning to see a mother daughter resemblance.

[00:55:16] And I'm like yeah Joyce get him. This is like you heard what Buffy said and then of course how you know the how she kind of protects Buffy from Spike in that moment. I mean she clocks Spike on this with an axe.

[00:55:34] Yeah and that whole you know get the hell away from my daughter may or may not come up again but it's just such a good moment and Spike I think that's when he kind of turns around and is like women and the summer's women will you

[00:55:52] know create problems for a few people in the future and I love that dynamic starting to come out. She doesn't take shit from anyone right she doesn't take shit from her daughter but she's also not going to take shit against her daughter right she like

[00:56:08] tells Snyder to fuck off basically and then you know that conversation she has with Buffy at the end where Buffy is like so you know how much trouble am I in and Joyce is like you're not in any because what I saw was that my daughter

[00:56:21] is brave and resourceful and thinks of other people during a crisis and I love all those things and Buffy's life you know of course it has to become funny Buffy's like how long is it going to last and Joyce is like oh about a week and a half.

[00:56:35] Yeah. But it's a beautiful moment between a mother and daughter right it's like I see you this is what I see and I love what I see and who you are is a person I wanted you to be like it's it's lovely.

[00:56:51] It's a nice moment and the whole you know Buffy acknowledges and kind of you know lets our mom know that she's under a lot of pressure and Joyce says you know wait till you get a job and Buffy has like one of the most

[00:57:06] important jobs in the world and it's just that must be such a difficult dynamic as for being the slayer as a teenage girl having you know we've see her chest and in her makeup vanity instead of you know just make up

[00:57:23] hairbrushes all of that she's got holy water and steaks and weapons and I just I love that wait till you get a job like kind of normal mother daughter like you mean a destiny.

[00:57:36] Yeah I don't even get paid it's not even a job they don't even pay me that is the source object with me Buffy should get paid she oh yeah you have to sacrifice your life essentially for humanity but you know no compensation yeah just

[00:57:55] responsibility one of my favorite lines is when Cordelia says is that your mother that is a woman who knows how to moisturize and that line goes through my head literally every time I put on cream before I go to bed I'm like that

[00:58:11] woman knows how to moisturize because you know Joyce looks good for her age that's what Cordelia is saying and of course she uses it as an opportunity to mean mean to Buffy and of course tell her that it skipped a generation.

[00:58:26] I do love whenever Cordelia kind of pokes at Buffy it's so silly like she'll make a comment about her hair and meanwhile it's just you know Sarah Michelle Geller looking beautiful yeah like normal I was like this is but it's so high school

[00:58:44] mean girl too like those little digs here and there it's just oh Cordelia so special I do love now I'm drawing a blank Dang it. What was I going to say? Denny Callender? Oh that is one of those moments

[00:59:07] that I live with with Miss Callender and Giles when they are standing there you know at the table talking to Buffy and Willow and Xander as they're getting kind of set up and he's making a reference to slaying when Principal Snyder

[00:59:23] walks in and he corrects it to slaves you're all slaves to the television and he and Miss Callender like put on their teacher fronts and being very formal and it's just I forgot how much I love watching Giles kind of walk that line

[00:59:42] because he is like he's the school librarian like he's this authority figure and I think we also see how much he really cares about Buffy in this episode when he's trying to you know remove the barricade in the library where he and

[00:59:59] Miss Callender are because he's responsible for Buffy and he wants to make sure she's all right which you know for his role as a watcher and her role as Slayer it's supposed to be this kind of mentor-mentee trainer-trainy

[01:00:17] dynamic and we start to see that Giles cares about Buffy perhaps more so like a father or an uncle you know some sort of family member and I love that about him. I think it makes... There's real love there and you're right

[01:00:35] you start to see it developing mostly in this season and in that moment and she's like Giles my mother is in that room like I know you'll get her out and they have this ability to communicate you know she says that and there's

[01:00:51] like you know a year's worth of knowing each other in the sentence like she's like I know you'll get my mother out and she does know it and he's like oh you're right I will. It's pretty fantastic

[01:01:06] and I think I spent a lot of time when this show was on wishing I had a Giles in my own life like a sort of mentor figure who always seemed to know the right answer to things and cared about like my life intensely the way that

[01:01:25] Giles cares about Buffy. It's nice. It's not just a father thing it's there's something else about their relationship but it's really beautiful. There's so much mutual respect at the same time and guidance like he wants

[01:01:47] what's best for her and not just in terms of her being the most effective slayer or anything like that he actually cares about her in general. I can't remember if it's I think it may be an episode later on in this season

[01:02:05] what is the the reptile frat house episode? Oh yeah we're not going to be covering that one but I think it's actually next after this after it might be right. It's either four or five. I think that is right and there's an exchange

[01:02:22] between you know Giles this is not hugely spoilery or anything but between Giles and Willow where Buffy kind of lies to Giles about she wants to go to a party and she tells Giles she's got homework that she needs to do and he's

[01:02:39] been kind of getting on her to train and Willow scolds him a bit at one point and she's being like look she deserves a break and to be like a normal teenager after a while and Giles' reaction is not to you know he doesn't

[01:02:56] get angry and tell her never to lie again he understands that dynamic and the importance of her being a teenager and I think that sets him apart from what you would think your typical watcher would be like

[01:03:11] and I just I love watching their relationship develop and the relationship between Giles and Mrs. Callender yeah that's fun to watch it is and this is the beginning of the running joke about how you know he really knows how to

[01:03:27] show a girl a good time by taking her to like massacres and things. Oh yeah I will say I think my favorite line or couple of lines in this episode is where we cut from Spike talking to you know the anointed trying

[01:03:46] to find out what he can about Buffy and he says so how about the slayer is she tough and that's when it cuts immediately to her brushing out her hair and saying ow and talking about her cream rinses neither creamy nor

[01:04:00] rinsy I was like oh that's perfect yeah it's a really good segue and it's it sort of encapsulates all of Buffy right it's like yep she's tough in some ways and in other ways very very not telling it's really adorable one of

[01:04:19] my favorite lines is after the the Woodstock thing or you know he's like I fed off a flower child and spent the next six hours looking at my hand yeah and then he goes so who do you kill for fun around here just casual

[01:04:34] conversation yeah right oh and we haven't talked about it but first of all that he calls the anointed one the annoying one perfect because I never liked the anointed one when they introduced him in season one I was like

[01:04:50] this is dumb so when he kills him at the end and he's like I should have done this sooner I'm like yeah you should have like I'm glad that is gone totally get really anointed one such a superior villain like at least the

[01:05:05] master was you know creepy and seemed to have this history behind him and with the anointed one I was like this kid's weird I don't like it like yeah I don't care it doesn't do and he didn't seem interesting at all like I don't

[01:05:21] know I've seen child actors that really could have carried a season as a villain on Buffy like I've seen some amazing child acting but this kid was not it her kid sorry kid you're you're probably really good at what you're

[01:05:36] doing now I don't I don't mean to rag on a little kid but yeah he's not he's not a little kid anymore he's probably your age yeah it was probably nine in that scene probably true he had the same problem as a lot of child characters

[01:05:56] have which is that he grew a lot in between seasons and they were like oh but vampires aren't supposed to age and like that's the whole problem with having any child vampires yeah and so they had to write him out and not have him be

[01:06:10] a big villain and I'm glad because spike is so much better speaking of child vampires Kirsten Dunst an interview with a vampire was sufficiently creepy to me as a kid like I don't want to see her as a villain like that would have been a

[01:06:29] kid villain I could get behind yeah so good in that movie what was the characters named Claudia yeah yeah she was great I haven't watched the interview with a vampire show more than like the first episode but people love

[01:06:46] it there have heard good things and that does have a child vampire character in it but she's I think she's supposed to be about like 14 maybe they're hoping she won't shoot the actor won't age too much before yeah gosh like those stranger

[01:07:04] things children by the time we get the last season they're all gonna be like 25 or something and it's pretty funny the only music really featured on the episode on this episode besides like the Buffy theme is a song called where

[01:07:23] did my thing go that's weird it's called a stupid thing by a band called nickel and they had another a second song in the episode that they're performing at the bronze it's called that's called like a thousand nights

[01:07:41] or something like that I didn't find that one is memorable but stupid thing I really liked and I downloaded it it's a it's now part of one of my playlists so I'll be listening to like a bronze playlist could be really good

[01:07:57] like kind of coffee or cocktail sipping playlist I mean I guess that's not that big of a stretch considering they get coffee and cocktails at the bronze yeah you know but in general I love the music that the show puts on at the

[01:08:15] time the show was when it was originally aired for the first five seasons it was on the WB network and all the music that is on the show is all music that's published by war was published by Warner Brothers at the time so they had

[01:08:33] this sort of relationship and at the time all the WB shows were featuring started featuring like a lot of cool music and it became much more of a thing that there would always be like these like great musical acts that would show

[01:08:52] up these like slightly indie acts or like right before they hit big acts and it was always really good music and I want to remind our listeners that back then there wasn't an internet where you could go and be like what were all

[01:09:06] the songs that were played in this episode you had to figure it out like sometimes you could catch it in the credits but remember you couldn't pause nope and sometimes somebody knew who the act was or they said the name during

[01:09:22] the show but like a lot of times I'd be like I have no idea who that music was it was nice this time I was like hey stupid thing by nickel that was

[01:09:31] so easy it was easy I think in 1997 the extent of my usage of the internet was like in computer lab typing in the beanie baby website address browsing for 10 minutes so we've come a long way beanie babies that's hilarious I love

[01:09:55] it well I think that we've come to the point in our podcast where I need to ask you about this episode does it still slay I say absolutely I I like I got chills watching this one again and got so excited about going through the

[01:10:21] rest of the series because I was like this feels like the kickoff one like this is the perfect episode to kick this off I agree it's the best we met all the important characters we got to see the high school dynamic we got to see the

[01:10:36] mother-daughter dynamic and spike spike what more could you ask spike bronze things things of bronze so we got a little bit of listener feedback not a ton but some from some friends of the show and some from some new listeners who

[01:10:57] are brand new to podcastica which I find really exciting so do you want to start us off there with reading some of them sure our first bit of feedback comes from Andrew sparkles I hope that's your name I was just about to say that if it's

[01:11:12] if it's not I I still love it he said I believe that he top three episodes for me are hush the body and once more with feeling and I think those are absolutely excellent choices yeah it's hard to argue with any one of those

[01:11:29] they're all fantastic I have a soft spot in my heart for tabula rasa yes but I mean any of these three would be in my top three easily if I won't I won't say too much for people who are still listening that haven't watched all the way

[01:11:47] through but if I need a good cry I will watch the body yeah like just get it all out every single time it's still hits me almost as much as it did the first time so yeah excellent season five so we have a little time before

[01:12:05] we'll get to that hushed season four and once more with feeling that season six alright good Abby peppers another new member of the podcastica family and another name that I hope is real that is says oh my gosh one of if not my

[01:12:22] all-time favorite show I can't think of anything specific other than maybe just covering every episode so I can really live them over and over because I guess seeing each one about 30 times over the years isn't enough laugh cry

[01:12:35] emoji never enough it's never enough and our friend Randy Stevenson said it's crazy to think that spike was supposed to be a one-off character similar to Darrell in The Walking Dead it seems like when a show lets an actor really own

[01:12:53] a small character they end up with a breakout star absolutely could not have been more Randy spike and Darrell or two of my all-time favorites I think yeah I would agree with that it's amazing Kara how on the same wavelength you and I are

[01:13:09] about all of them that's great alright and we have one voicemail from our friend Mark mark by the way is going to be on next time when we talk about the Halloween episode so that's gonna be really fun that is gonna be a fun

[01:13:24] one alright hello still slang a Buffyverse podcast hello to Kara and Penny wow yeah this is the first episode that you're actually covering the full episode which is pretty cool obviously you're covering Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[01:13:42] school hard season 2 episode 3 my name is Mark I'm sorry I didn't actually mention it before but you know we're gonna be cutting into this either by a trell or pruning shears that's a little segue into what we were talking

[01:14:00] you guys probably were talking about with Sheila attacking a teacher and obviously Buffy burning down her former school which obviously Snyder doesn't understand what the ramifications of the issues that were going on with the before she actually moved into Sunnydale but this episode was really cool I just

[01:14:20] love the fact that we got this introduction of Spike into Sunnydale his hitting the car and the sign as he and your still show up I thought that was a huge nice touch and to him being introduced into this universe as well

[01:14:34] as you know just him going to of all things the anointed one that is after the master had you know had been demise obviously the anointed one took over which is a little kid but get the typical spike showing him off as

[01:14:53] like he's so cool I killed two slayers I could do this but throughout this we have the whole story of St. Vigius as well as the parent-teacher conference that has to go on in Sunnydale at that point where Buffy is being held accountable

[01:15:11] along with her cohort that was brought into principal Snyder which was Sheila which I thought was pretty funny too because now that she was a consistent thing but she once got you know getting turned at one point but I love

[01:15:30] that Buffy has to deal with this whole thing and you know apparently same for just who apparently didn't make the moon animals is the issue at hand in this particular episode I just really did enjoy it for the fact that we get

[01:15:44] introduced to both Spike and Dr. Silla and we get to see a little bit of that craziness of Dr. Silla and we get to see how quirky and strange that Spike is I saw that Spike was always a great character because he is a bit comedic

[01:16:02] he is a little bit foiled he is evil yes and he does bite and kill people but there's always this whole rapport between him and Buffy and Angel and everything and then the whole it's kind of like a triangle of Buffy with between Angel

[01:16:23] and Spike and Buffy herself and I always thought that was an interesting thing within this series itself and yeah Spike was definitely a character that we all love we care for to some degree I wouldn't say we all love him completely

[01:16:44] but he has his moments but I just love the scene where Angel in the actual school winds up having to deal with Spike has Xander there ready he's portraying himself as Angel is and of course Spike sees through it and

[01:17:01] it's amazing and we find out at that point that Angel had sired Spike now this is something that'll come in later but obviously you know Angel had converted Spike to being a vampire and I just love how Spike fails at the

[01:17:18] end but dispatches the anointed one with the daylight and then he just continues on as it's just another day and I have my home in Sunnydale so I just like it and I love it and then on top of that quotes I have two quotes that

[01:17:36] I just enjoy you could like edit that out if you want but Spike saying if every vampire stated that they were at a crucifix at the crucifixion then it would be Woodstock meaning that every vampire stated that they were at

[01:17:52] Woodstock but obviously not but it's him making a joke of it because vampires think they're so cool and they were there at the time when Christ had fallen and then there's one from Xander going saying I remember when Saturday night

[01:18:08] used to mean date night in Cordelia it goes you surely don't yeah obviously these two are involved but it's always her you know bringing them back down to reality but it's pretty cool but I look forward to your thoughts on

[01:18:28] this particular episode and I look forward to your thoughts on your continuous podcast episodes too because I'll be following along so great idea for a podcast looking forward to more stuff can't wait talk to you guys later

[01:18:44] bye bye thanks mark mark was the first person who raised his hand and said I want to be a guest host so he got his first choice of episodes and that is the Halloween episode we're gonna be covering next week it's a classic

[01:19:02] it's beloved it's fun it's got spike yes and a lot of other really great stuff so that concludes the main part of the podcast if you'd like to get in touch or find out more about podcastica you can find all of our contact information

[01:19:23] at podcastica.com you can write into any of the podcasts there on podcastica.com or record a voice message there you can also find links to all our social media pages and to all the other shows that podcastica has and there are so many

[01:19:40] shows anything you like I'm sure that we have something for you you know I've been going through and re-listening to some of the stuff that I had missed out on and I was listening along though to the what is from cast while I was

[01:19:58] watching season three and they have done an absolutely amazing job covering that show and I was going back again listening to a couple of my favorite episodes from the season and now I feel like I have to do that with every show so like

[01:20:16] what is from cast I've been re-listening to and then even though white lotus that one has just kind of wrapped up for this season I found myself going back and re-listening to a couple of those episodes so

[01:20:30] that's been fun. Yeah that's a great podcast and they're going to start season two coverage for white lotus like any minute now. That'll be fun. That's going to be great there's the Ahsoka Star Wars TV cast going on

[01:20:44] right now and that's a lot of fun with Jonathan James and and Kristen and Darryl Dixon. The Darryl Dixon spin-off is about to start today. I'm so excited. There's going to be the cast of us will be covering that so

[01:21:03] that'll be going on this week for all you Walking Dead fans and if you're not a Walking Dead fan that's fine you can still hang out with us we still think it's cool. You can sit with us. If you are enjoying what we do please

[01:21:18] hit like, give us a rating, follow, subscribe whatever is the applicable word on the platform that you use. It really helps other listeners to find us. Tell your friends if they are also fans of Buffy that we would really love for them to listen.

[01:21:34] Also be sure to subscribe because you don't want to miss an episode. For sure and like we mentioned earlier next time on our show we'll be covering season 2 episode 6 Halloween and it will be joined by Mark Kirkman host of Adrenaline Cinema podcast and panels to pixels.

[01:21:55] You can find out more about Mark at Pirate Core Entertainment and that's Pirate Norma Spelling c-o-r-p-s entertainment dot com. Thank you all for joining us. You get the hell away from my daughter! Yay Joyce. Alright that's the end of the non-spoiler section if you want to avoid spoilers

[01:22:19] stop listening in 3, 2, 1, now. It's too bad we can't sneak a look at the Watcher Diaries I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell. Yeah that's too bad. That stuff is private. Also Giles keeps them in his office and his personal files.

[01:22:40] Most importantly it would be wrong. It was so hard not to bring these up. Yeah so many great things and moments that happen in this episode that pay off later like the you get the hell away from my daughter which comes up again

[01:23:03] at the end of season 2 when Joyce and Spike meet again and she's like you look familiar. I love that have we met? And he's like yeah you hit me with an axe? Remember get the hell away from my daughter. I love Joyce and Spike reactions.

[01:23:22] They're amazing over the next several seasons like we get a lot of Joyce and Spike moments and my favorite is the one where she goes to the tomb that he's living in and I'm like oh I love what you've neglected to do with the place.

[01:23:37] Like she's always kind no matter the circumstance. And he truly respects her. Yeah he loves Joyce. Yep comes to care about her like after that and the body of Spike's reaction to finding out about Joyce's death always hit me really hard. He really is mourning.

[01:24:05] That's what makes him he's not like other vampires. He's not. There's a scene in this episode and we'll be covering it. It's I think it's an innocence when they've reassembled the judge and the judge touches Spike and Drusilla and he's like you're tainted with emotions like love.

[01:24:27] I'm like yeah that's what makes Spike and Drusilla awesome. And then he touches you know Evil Angel and he's like no gosh. This one's clean. He's pure evil we're good. And that's a thing like Angelus is so much more terrifying

[01:24:45] than Spike is like Spike is a fun villain. And Angel just like makes me so anxious. And you know later. Because he's cruel. He plays the long game like he and he messes with your head like Angelus is oh he's a horrible villain.

[01:25:06] I mean he's great he's a great villain but he's really scary. Well and you know finding out about eventually how he is the one who eventually sires Drusilla and he is the reason that she was dripping crazy before her you know death and then rebirth as a vampire.

[01:25:30] He is just like when when you talk about Solis with Angelus he is unlike anybody else and we find out that's why he's so notorious. I will say that scene at the very beginning with Spike crashing into

[01:25:49] the Sunnydale sign just how iconic that is and how it comes up a couple more times in the series I think was it in the next season. Yeah in season three when he returns to Sunnydale he squashes the sign again and then in the very very final episode.

[01:26:08] The finale of finales. The sign gets knocked over again but I can't remember if he's the one who drives into it or if he's just sort of like there when it happens but the sign definitely gets knocked over again.

[01:26:22] That and getting into like our first hint of the kind of slayer lore that we get to explore later on where he references killing you know the first layer in the Boxer Rebellion

[01:26:39] and we get to see that a few seasons from now which I think is one of my favorite episodes. Such a good episode. And then the other slayer in the 1970s on the subway and I enjoy him saying in this episode like she begged for her life

[01:26:56] and she didn't but I like to think that Spike just bragging and exaggerating. Right I mean he's part of Spike's thing and he admits this in season five of Angel he and Angel have a conversation about this and Spike's like it was never about the evil for me.

[01:27:16] It was about the fun and because Angel is like yeah I was always trying to figure out the way to cause the most pain and to be the most evil and Spike's like yeah that wasn't my thing

[01:27:27] I was just having a good time and it's so true when you look at like over the course of many seasons like Spike is always trying to either defeat Buffy or just have a good time and like that's his life in a nutshell

[01:27:46] and Buffy constantly puts him in his place and it's so delightful. Some of the best Spike stuff is in season four I love that whole series of episodes. It's season well and he is almost more of like this little chaos demon trickster. Yeah he's impish that's right.

[01:28:10] Yeah he really is an Angel is just straight up sadistic brooding dark mean psychotic like it's so good though. It's a fun contrast the two of them are so different and yet you know they share this lineage they marauded around the planet together for who knows how long

[01:28:35] with their two girlfriends and they hate each other now. Oh that's great. They do have a fun dynamic. Like as soon as Darla gets introduced and expanded on more and anytime we have episodes with Drew, Spike, Darla and Angel I'm happy.

[01:28:57] It's always fascinating but listening to him first reference the Slayers that he's killed was one of my favorite parts about this episode because it's just so exciting where we're going. Yeah I remember when I saw this episode the first time

[01:29:19] and I didn't know what was gonna happen in future seasons and I was like he's killed two Slayers. And then I was like there's been like thousands of Slayers and they've all been killed by someone. And Spike has been around for a decently long time.

[01:29:39] Yeah a couple hundred years but they do reveal when they do the back story of it that he like went looking to kill a Slayer. Like it was like a like a quest. Which I could see why that would be a fun challenge for Spike.

[01:29:53] Like how else are you gonna organize your life when you're a vampire right? Like you need goals. Yeah and the idea you know when we see him we even know his nickname is William the Bloody

[01:30:07] and in the future when we get to see him as a human kind of pining away I love the idea that that is the characteristic that trait that he carried with him into his you know after life as a vampire.

[01:30:25] It's almost like that's a little bit of his like superpower now he still has that ability to care and yeah he loves you know I mean he loves Drizella. He loves her and other vampires aren't there's no love there but he loves Drizella.

[01:30:42] I don't know if we should probably shouldn't talk about this yet but there is I'm sure you'll know exactly what I'm talking about the one action and episode that Spike does that I hated and James Marsters hated and I didn't think it fit with his character at all.

[01:31:01] And it's just I was thinking about that I couldn't help it like watching this episode because this is the first time we see him I like I know it's a long way away but it's already bothering me

[01:31:13] just seeing the introduction of Spike and like why did they have to do that to him? Yeah I know exactly what you're talking about exactly which episode and it is very out of character for him.

[01:31:26] They tried to sort of make it make sense but it's also out of character for the show it's a place that the show doesn't usually go like there's plenty of violence and evil acts and things in the show but that particular type of violence doesn't usually happen

[01:31:45] and I would rather I don't I don't need it in my entertainment you know it's the same complaint I have about some other shows too it's like you don't need to do that for it to be good. So say Game of Thrones it became a bit gratuitous almost

[01:31:59] even though I can understand the argument that it fits with the culture but in this show I liked how we were in our kind of little bubble in the Buffyverse where that wasn't really an issue. Yeah it just wasn't part of it.

[01:32:16] There's an amazing science fiction show called The Hundred have you watched it? Yes I loved that show that is particularly the first three seasons. Yeah it gets I always tell people just don't watch season six and seven

[01:32:30] but that is another show that goes through seven seasons of post-apocalypse with very very little in the way of sexual violence and I really appreciate that about it. It's just it's not necessary to tell an exciting story with well-rounded characters who have plenty of trauma. Oh yeah.

[01:32:55] You don't have to worry about that. You know we arguably see Buffy dealing with a little bit of PTSD at the beginning of season two after dying at the hands of the master she's hyper-vigilant and you see what kind of effect it's had on her

[01:33:14] like I think that is a much more interesting route to take than any sort of sexual violence like it's just it's not necessary. I agree. And I did I did it'll take us a long way to get that get to that scene

[01:33:29] with Spike and Buffy but I know we'll have a lot to say. We sure will have a lot to say about it. All right I feel like we've adequately covered school hard. It's been so fun.

[01:33:45] So we'll be back in a week guys and we'll be covering the Halloween episode. I hope you all will write in or call in with some feedback because the more the merrier I always say that and thank you all for listening. Absolutely can't wait till next time.

[01:34:06] Bye bye.