3: "Halloween" (BTVS S2E6)

[00:00:00] This is just...meat.

[00:00:07] You! Check up serious, make sure everything's locked up.

[00:00:22] Surely there's somewhere we can go. Uh, save Haven.

[00:00:25] Ladies had to stay put.

[00:00:27] You would take orders from a woman? Are you feeble in some way?

[00:00:31] Ma'am in the army we have a saying. Sit down and shut the...witch.

[00:00:36] She must be right. We must have some kind of amnesia.

[00:00:41] I don't know what that is, but I'm certain I don't have it. I bathe quite often.

[00:00:45] How do you explain this?

[00:00:47] I don't. I was brought up a proper lady. I wasn't meant to understand things.

[00:00:53] I'm just meant to look pretty and then someone nice will marry me.

[00:00:57] Possibly a Baron.

[00:00:59] This ain't no tea party, Princess. Some people are not allowed to marry a woman.

[00:01:05] Sooner or later, you're gonna have to fight.

[00:01:08] Fight these low creatures? I'd sooner die.

[00:01:11] Then you'll die.

[00:01:12] Oh good. You guys are alright.

[00:01:14] It's total chaos out there.

[00:01:17] Who are you?

[00:01:19] Hello everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Penny.

[00:01:45] I'm Kara.

[00:01:46] And I'm Mark.

[00:01:47] And this is Still Slaying, a Buffy-verse podcast dedicated to all things Buffy.

[00:01:54] This episode, we're going to start with highlights from season two episodes four and five.

[00:02:00] Then get into it about season two, episode six entitled Halloween.

[00:02:06] Directed by Bruce Seth Green and written by Carl Ellsworth.

[00:02:12] Rob Desoltle Hotel.

[00:02:15] That's exactly what I did last time.

[00:02:19] Dean Batali and Marty Noxon.

[00:02:23] Original air date was October 27th, 1997.

[00:02:28] Welcome to Still Slaying, Mark.

[00:02:31] For people out there listening, if you don't know Mark, he is a friend of Podcastica.

[00:02:38] He has his own podcasts, Panels to Pixels and Adrenaline Cinema Podcast.

[00:02:44] Mark, why don't you tell us a little bit about your history with Buffy?

[00:02:48] Buffy? That's a pretty funny thing because I remember it originally starting with the original movie with Christy Swanson.

[00:02:57] And I was so hyped for it and obviously we got the same writer-director from that that continued the saga, but more dramatized.

[00:03:06] And I was looking forward to the show because I remember the movie thinking, oh, it's going to be as kooky and comedy like that with Christy Swanson and Paul Rubins and the whole cast or maybe have somebody from there.

[00:03:22] And once I saw the promotion for it, I was like, okay, this looks a little darker. This looks a little cool.

[00:03:29] So I really got into the idea and I thought, okay, I got to give it a shot.

[00:03:35] So after the first five episodes, I kind of got my girlfriend at the time into it and she loved it from then on.

[00:03:42] And I loved the series. The first season was, I kind of felt like a whole introduction of the new Buffy verse, which was really cool.

[00:03:52] And I just loved the show ever since and I'm a completionist, so I watched it from season one all the way till the very end.

[00:04:00] And I just loved all the actors, the characters, the drama, the commentaries that they had in it.

[00:04:07] And it's a real true discussion, I think, or even commentary on women in that current day or girls going through high school or growing and learning and adapting, but her being the hero and being that female centric.

[00:04:26] I really loved that idea. Now if you asked me about Angel, I wasn't really a big fan of that. I followed it, but I didn't.

[00:04:34] I loved them both. But Angel is definitely has a different flavor than Buffy.

[00:04:41] Very different.

[00:04:42] It's got some of the same wittiness, but it's darker and it's a little bit more adult in some ways.

[00:04:52] I used to call it Buffy After Dark because there was that Baywatch After Dark show that they had for like six months that was like the Baywatch like crime fighters or whatever.

[00:05:07] Excellent. And by excellent, I mean terrible, but excellent.

[00:05:11] Yeah, I mean it was Baywatch. And so I started calling it Angel After Dark amongst my friends or Buffy After Dark and they were all like, ha ha ha, you know, whatever.

[00:05:25] Alright, let's recap the episodes that we skipped and then we can start talking about the Halloween episode.

[00:05:33] Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[00:05:36] Such special episodes that we skipped. I will say I did rewatch Ecomommy Girl this time around and that episode ages absolutely terribly.

[00:05:47] Yeah, it does.

[00:05:49] I don't know how great it was when it first aired but especially now I was like, oof, this is special.

[00:05:55] So that was season two episode four and in that episode Sunnydale High School plays host to foreign exchange students giving plenty of opportunities for problematic behavior.

[00:06:07] Don't get us started on the cultural appreciation soiree at the bronze, especially Willow's Inuit costume that Oz first spots her in.

[00:06:21] Xander, of course ends up developing feelings for Empata the student staying at the summer's house but she turns out to actually be a centuries old ink and mummy who needs to drain the life force from others to live.

[00:06:38] Buffy ultimately identifies with Empata and that they both have been chosen to sacrifice their lives for others.

[00:06:47] We do meet Oz in this episode played by Seth Green and we find out that he is the guitarist in the band Dingo's Ate My Baby, one of the best band names I think that I've ever heard as he notices Willow for the first time.

[00:07:02] And this episode is certainly painful to watch with a modern lens but I'm not gonna lie, it is Buffy. I think it's still an important one to at least maybe skim through just so you can see Oz spotting Willow for the first time because that is one of my favorite episodes in this season.

[00:07:26] Yeah, I agree. Actually the one thing that I like about this episode around the same time within I guess three years they had a movie out called The Kiss with Meredith Saunders and it had to deal with somebody who was like a mummy.

[00:07:43] And it was a woman that was dating her father and you find out she was trying to suck the life out of Meredith Saunders character in the movie so that she could live on.

[00:07:57] It's fantastic. Lovely late 90s theme going on with sucking the life out of people. And Hocus Pocus I guess that was early 90s but they had that too.

[00:08:09] Season two episode five is called Reptile Boy and I just want to give a content warning. There's a brief discussion of rape right now so you might want to skip ahead like a minute.

[00:08:21] In this episode, slaying is slow and feeling rejected by Angel Buffy has time to get into some more traditional teen girl trouble.

[00:08:31] She meets a couple of college guys who are trolling for girls at the high school and gets invited along with Cordelia to a frat party.

[00:08:41] Buffy and Cordy are then roofied at the party and almost sacrificed to a giant snake man demon in a Sunnydale twist on date rape.

[00:08:52] These frat brothers are of course a cult sacrificing virgins to a demon in exchange for prosperity. It's very Veronica Mars if you've seen.

[00:09:02] That's true. Up until the demon part this was a very realistic portrayal of how some men prey on young women and girls.

[00:09:11] It's it brought up a lot of emotions for me and I have like three pages of notes about the episode. And I was like we're not even covering this one.

[00:09:22] And I think that it fosters it provides an opportunity for a serious conversation about rape culture.

[00:09:30] But I don't think this podcast is really the right place for it. I'd be happy to talk to anyone about it. Obviously I have a lot to say.

[00:09:38] But we're trying to have fun. So let's talk about the Halloween episode. Yes, which is so much fun. So great. All right.

[00:09:48] So just a little context. The number one song in the US at the when this aired was the Princess Diana version of Candle in the Wind.

[00:09:58] She had just been buried. Her funeral was like just a few weeks earlier.

[00:10:04] I thought this was entertaining. The number one song in the UK was Barbie Girl by Aqua.

[00:10:09] Given that Karen and I co-hosted with Jason Kibasi the Barbie review on the on the cast of us. Was that what we ran that on?

[00:10:20] I think so. Yeah.

[00:10:23] I think actually also went out on on this fee. No, on the yellow jackets. Yeah. Anyway, and Devil's Advocate is number was number one at the box office.

[00:10:32] That's the movie with Keanu Reeves as a lawyer who gets hired by Al Pacino as Satan. I do like that movie.

[00:10:40] I love that movie. It's one of the only lawyer movies I like because it is so over the top. It is so preposterous.

[00:10:48] It doesn't bother you that it's inaccurate. Yeah, it's ridiculous and it's fun. And Keanu Reeves is at his most Keanu Reeves-iest.

[00:10:56] It's so great. I'm my lawyer.

[00:11:05] I will say I would add going on at this time just because I'm a baseball fanatic, the Marlins had just won their very first World Series in 1997.

[00:11:18] I remember watching that on TV and I think it was the day before this aired. And this is one of the few Buffy episodes early on that I have a solid memory of watching when it came out because I was obsessed with Halloween.

[00:11:36] I think we covered this. It was like nine when the season aired and I was allowed to watch Seventh Heaven, which came on right before this.

[00:11:46] That's a whole other story everybody too. I really, that show ended up being very special. But I stayed on the channel and continued watching Buffy.

[00:12:01] And I just remember loving it so much and wanting to dress as Willow for Halloween. And that did not go over well.

[00:12:10] And that did not happen. At least not when I was nine. So, I don't blame you. Willow is very cool and she looks hot as hell in this episode.

[00:12:20] Well let's get into our points and Mark as our guest, you go first.

[00:12:25] Well the funny thing is about this episode, you talked about the number one song in the UK being Barbie Girl. Cordelia actually makes a comment in the show, this episode about Barbie.

[00:12:39] And it's so hilarious of when, I have it in my notes somewhere about, it's like oh I have this, he could run around and give me this Barbie car or something like that.

[00:12:57] It was so interesting. Oh it was the Barbie dream car which she was talking to Angelette the bronze. That's right. Barbie dream car.

[00:13:07] Yep which is so funny too. We get a little bit more Oz in this which I really did enjoy. And he does take notice more of Willow at the very end which is really cool.

[00:13:19] So you know there's something that's clued into that and then I think this is the first time that of all things Cordy actually realizes that oh Angel is a vampire.

[00:13:31] And she doesn't believe Buffy when she says it in the bathroom.

[00:13:35] I don't think she even believes it at the end of the episode. I'm not sure Cordelia, I don't know when Cordelia finds out that he really is a vampire.

[00:13:44] I don't know if she understood that by the end of this episode.

[00:13:49] Yeah. Like he would hope that at some point, I think it happens somewhere technically off-screen because at some point moving forward she just knows.

[00:14:02] She's just aware of it. But I do love Oz seeing Willow again and how he repeats the line that he says an Inca mummy girl when he sees her like who is that girl?

[00:14:15] And the contrast of her being in this like giant like Inuit fur coat completely covered up and that's when he first sees her and she catches his attention.

[00:14:27] And then she walks in front of his van and is you know like decked out in like mid-drift ab showing and he's just like who is she?

[00:14:38] I mean, I get it right. If somebody's really interesting in one way and then you see them in a completely different way you're like there's even more than I thought.

[00:14:49] Like it makes them like more than twice as interesting. Right? It's like.

[00:14:54] Yeah. I just love how it plays into you know the theme of essentially duality that we have going on in the episode where Willow, you know, she usually is part of the crowd bending blending into the background covered up like quiet and he notices her first then.

[00:15:13] And then in this episode she's kind of in your face and up front she's taking charge and you know not covered up and he appreciates both sides of her.

[00:15:26] And if you can't tell I love Willow and Oz together. I do love future people that you know Willow is involved with but Willow and Oz have a very special place.

[00:15:41] We could talk about that in the spoiler section. Oh yes. Yeah, it's a pretty great scene. Let's talk about Willow's outfit for a second. It was so 90s. That was like the most 90s of 90s outfits ever.

[00:15:54] It was like burgundy. She had on like dark lipstick. Remember how in dark lipstick was in the 90s? Like everything was like wine and berry colored and like the hair, the updo with the like you know strands in the front.

[00:16:10] In front of her face the choker. Oh yeah the choker. It was just it was delightful. I don't know if Mark can identify with this as much but I.

[00:16:18] I could identify it that my girlfriend at the time would dress like that. There you go. She was a petite little thing but would try to accentuate and she just loved the big lipstick too.

[00:16:30] And then she would do her hair up and then her top was kind of tight and pushed up too. And this is so not Willow personality at all. This is Buffy dolling her up.

[00:16:43] And then I just love the aspect of she just wants to go back to the ghost costume. She just comes back and puts it over it but as soon as the spell happens that's when it gets kind of it vanishes.

[00:17:01] Literally comes off her. She I mean she's forced to just be who she is in front of people and get over it because there's an emergency.

[00:17:11] Yes. And it ends up being that this crisis did something really good for Willow and her self esteem. Not only does she like have to walk around in this outfit and at no point does anyone like point and laugh or any of the other things she probably was afraid of.

[00:17:29] But also she has to take charge because everyone else doesn't remember who they are and she's good at being in charge.

[00:17:36] She is. Willow's great in this episode. Yeah I will say one scene that I will laugh at hard every single time that I see it is when she appears walking through the wall in the library and scares the hell out of Giles.

[00:17:54] Oh yeah she just passes through.

[00:17:56] Single time. It's hilarious.

[00:17:59] It's so funny and his exchange with her you know when she's kind of summed everything up about everybody turning into what they were costumed as and he's like you know and your your costume and she's just like I'm a ghost.

[00:18:13] It's like a ghost of what exactly and the way he's stammering and trying to find the words.

[00:18:21] Christmas past.

[00:18:24] Oh yeah.

[00:18:26] I think what is it the subtitles. I don't know if it was on this or on the DVD commentary it says like rocker chick or like sexy rocker chick or something is what she was supposed to be.

[00:18:39] I didn't get that.

[00:18:41] I don't think it I don't think when Buffy puts that outfit together for Willow that she has a character in mind.

[00:18:47] No.

[00:18:48] She's just like let's make you sexy.

[00:18:50] Scantily clad Willow is what she did.

[00:18:53] Scantily clad Willow. Yeah.

[00:18:55] If that was her Barbie version it'd be like it would come with the ghost and the ghost thing would come off so you can have her in the outfit or put the ghost costume over the top of it.

[00:19:05] That would be a great Barbie I would buy that Barbie.

[00:19:08] All right we were with Mark we kind of veered off off course where should we go now should we mark you have more about you were talking about Oz right.

[00:19:18] Well yeah we got a little snippet of Oz in the Inca episode in come on we girl but this gave a little bit more.

[00:19:28] I think it was more of like more of an introduction of Oz and who he is and you get that sarcasm and dry humor that he has so you get to know him more as a character.

[00:19:40] I didn't think they were salt and peppering him into episodes so that way he would become a regular at a certain point and yeah obviously.

[00:19:48] It's a good introduction to a new character instead of having him just like appear and become Willow's boyfriend in one episode.

[00:19:56] Exactly.

[00:19:57] So his interaction with Cordelia when she's asking you know if Devin is going to be playing tonight at the club and she's going off like Mr.

[00:20:12] I'm the lead singer I'm so great and he's like yeah you know he's just going by Devin now like his delivery and that dry with that you're talking about is just it's so good especially when contrasted with Cordelia

[00:20:25] and her kind of you know chaotic over the top nature and he's just he is delivering.

[00:20:32] He was instantly my favorite character when he showed up on the show I was taken with him I have a thing for redheads anyway and he's often a redhead.

[00:20:42] Yeah although it's kind of his hair color changes often on the show without warning and without comment is just different sometimes.

[00:20:50] And I've really been a fan of Seth Green's career after Buffy not just the Austin Powers movies that most people probably know him from but Robot Chicken it's brilliant.

[00:21:01] Yeah he created that yeah.

[00:21:03] He was great.

[00:21:04] It started as like just a thing he was doing for fun with his friends and then yeah it exploded so cool.

[00:21:10] Yeah he was also great and first time I had seen him was in pump up the volume with Christian Slater.

[00:21:16] Oh I don't remember that.

[00:21:18] Aside seeing where he was one of the rocker kids listening to Happy Harry Hard on or sorry people that's upsetting but yeah he was in that movie and he was one of the kids and he had longish like a mullet kind of hair cut.

[00:21:34] But he was always a child actor that was always somewhere but it was him in like 89 90 at that point.

[00:21:42] Yeah I've definitely seen him in like Lego commercials or something like you know and one of those like before they were famous type shows.

[00:21:51] He and he and Sarah Michelle Geller were old friends they already knew each other because they both went to the high school of the performing arts in New York.

[00:22:00] That's neat.

[00:22:02] So when he came on the show she was like oh Seth you know they were like already buddies.

[00:22:07] I guess with my age everything I associate him with is like terrible teen movies of the time.

[00:22:14] Like I can't hardly weigh.

[00:22:16] Oh I hardly weigh.

[00:22:18] Yes an idle hand.

[00:22:20] Both of those I could see like gosh I could still.

[00:22:25] I can't believe I watched those movies as many times as I did.

[00:22:28] Yeah but they're fun.

[00:22:30] They are fun.

[00:22:31] And rat race.

[00:22:32] Oh rat race is great.

[00:22:34] He's random.

[00:22:37] And without a paddle that's another one.

[00:22:40] Yes I probably watched way more but he just he's excellent and obviously family guy.

[00:22:45] I can't not associate him with Chris Griffin.

[00:22:49] So he's just he's very talented.

[00:22:54] And I get the sense that he has set up a life for himself within Hollywood that is like manageable.

[00:23:04] You know like he's not in the public eye a ton.

[00:23:07] He's making work he likes with people he likes.

[00:23:10] Yeah it's like he's winning at Hollywood.

[00:23:12] He's very creative.

[00:23:13] He seems to have made good choices.

[00:23:15] He is really creative.

[00:23:16] Like robot chicken is just as people if you're listening and you have not seen robot chicken.

[00:23:23] Please check it out because there's something for everyone.

[00:23:28] Yes.

[00:23:29] Usually in each episode.

[00:23:31] Yeah that's true.

[00:23:33] One Oz tidbit at the in that like end of the episode scene where he sees Willow and he's sitting in his van at like a stoplight or whatever.

[00:23:41] Is he sitting on the right?

[00:23:43] Is his van a British van?

[00:23:45] I believe so.

[00:23:47] Yep.

[00:23:49] I don't think I've ever noticed that before.

[00:23:52] Me neither.

[00:23:53] Not until this episode I didn't rewatch.

[00:23:55] I watched it twice.

[00:23:56] So random.

[00:23:58] And I have it on iTunes and on DVD collections.

[00:24:02] Nice.

[00:24:03] Yeah I have all the DVDs and all the Angel DVDs way before there was you know streaming.

[00:24:13] That was how I had to feed my obsessions.

[00:24:15] Yeah I used to do a rewatch a Buffy almost every year and go through the whole all the seasons.

[00:24:20] And I would do it as a marathon for like a week and a half to two weeks and it would just blend do like two or three episodes a night or you know I had a lot of time.

[00:24:29] But the funny thing about this and speaking of Angel I think was the first time I ever saw David Boreanus smile as Angel when he was in front of Cordelia.

[00:24:40] Yeah he laughs he looks like a normal person.

[00:24:43] And he wasn't wearing his Doolmi Gourmi jacket.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:48] He was wearing down shirts.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:50] He looked like a maybe he was trying to look like an average guy for his date.

[00:24:55] Ah true.

[00:24:56] Probably and honestly I think I don't know how intentional it is but one of my points is duality in that theme carried throughout and we see a different side of Angel.

[00:25:08] We see him you know not in all black and brooding.

[00:25:11] He's in this light blue shirt.

[00:25:13] He's laughing.

[00:25:14] He looks like he's enjoying himself and that's not really a side dim that we've seen before.

[00:25:21] So it's nice we get to see other sides of pretty much another characteristics of pretty much everyone in this episode.

[00:25:28] Kara do you want to just jump into that that point?

[00:25:31] Yeah.

[00:25:32] Sure.

[00:25:33] We you know in this episode we get the introduction of Ethan Rain and see that he has essentially invoked the Roman god.

[00:25:46] Is it Janus I believe is how you pronounce it?

[00:25:49] And Janus is essentially you know he is the literal two faced God and the Roman god of gates and doors beginnings and endings duality all of these things

[00:26:02] and we see that theme throughout the episode and going through especially our main characters are Scooby gang with the exception of maybe Cordelia.

[00:26:14] We see a lot of duality going on with Buffy obviously she is wanting to dress up in a way that she thinks Angel wants this noble woman back in the 18th century.

[00:26:28] So we see Buffy typically as you know she's strong.

[00:26:33] She's a slayer.

[00:26:34] She's a fighter and in this episode we see more of her feminine and vulnerable side and I also think we see Buffy most of the time with these very heavy adult you know responsibilities and in this episode she's almost childlike and she's got to be taken care of

[00:26:54] and she's looking to everybody else for direction and it is kind of heavy handed at some points when she's talking about you know I'm supposed to marry a man or the men will tell us what to do and all of that is like alright we get it

[00:27:11] but we do see this kind of underdeveloped more vulnerable side of Buffy come forth and with Willow obviously we've talked about her you know she's got this sexy like spicy out there outfit and usually she's blending in with the crowd and kind of taking a back seat

[00:27:31] but she steps up and she takes charge and she's a leader even though Xander is you know the military guy or the soldier in this episode she gives him an order at one point and he listens to her like she does a very good job of you know putting her leadership skills on display so we see that side of her coming out

[00:27:52] and then Xander there's this contrast of not only weakness and strength but being emasculated and then masculated once he is stepping into this military guy soldier role and the idea of cowardice with Larry and his interaction with Larry bullying him and bravery where you know he gets so mad at Buffy for stepping in when Larry's about to like kick his ass

[00:28:21] and just like Buffy you know a black eye goes away like that cowardice that reputation of being a coward like never does so we see you know that side of Xander coming out and we see that Cordelia kind of seems to respond to that side of Xander a little bit

[00:28:41] and then probably my favorite is Giles because Giles you know he doesn't have a costume from Ethan but Ethan essentially accuses him of putting on this act and being the watcher who's you know buttoned up and responsible and we see the first glimpses of Giles is passed as Ripper

[00:29:07] and we kind of see that mask come off when he's fighting with Ethan especially when he knees him like the look on Giles face Anthony Steward had did it beautifully where you just you see Ripper kind of peek through and you're automatically at least I was like I want to know more like now I'm intrigued

[00:29:29] this kind of just just a position of you know light and dark good and evil that Giles is dealing with and that it hints is a part of his past is just fascinating but I agree more you know I love that part yeah

[00:29:48] it's just the whole episode I think it was very well written to show all of these traits that you know everybody already has it's this inherent part of them that's either repressed or underdeveloped and we see each of these things kind of poking through and get a little airtime essentially

[00:30:12] and I love how they did that I love the device of Janus and being able to explore different sides of our Scooby gang that actually leads perfectly into my first point which was about one of the major themes of the episode was insecurity

[00:30:32] yes all of our characters are battling it in this episode at least all the all the teens and we don't really get to see Giles being secure yet but Buffy it's it's about not being normal right like who am I kidding dates are for normal girls who have time to think about nail polish and facials you know what I think about ambush tactics beheading

[00:30:52] not exactly what dreams are made of right it's it's part of her her whole ongoing struggle that she has you know overarching the whole series of the weight of the responsibility the loneliness of the responsibility of being the slayer and also the like unfairness of missing out on all these normal teenage things right and so she's like I can't even show up for a date without having like dirt in my

[00:31:21] hair and they did not do a good enough job of making her look messy I'm sorry she still looks absolutely gorgeous I was like what are you talking about this like one piece of straw yeah let's pretend she looked like she was a mess yeah you know and then she sees of course like the ultimate icon of polished and put together for high school

[00:31:41] Cordelia making angel laugh no less and and she just turns around and leaves because she's her she's very confident when she's being the slayer correct but she's not confident about her own intelligence like in school and she's not confident about angel and part of that is because angel is

[00:32:05] 200 and whatever years old and moody and broody and not very forthcoming with details so of course she's kind of insecure about how he feels about her but also every 16 year old girl is except for Cordelia apparently is insecure about relationships and romance and dating and I'm sure the same is true of boys just can't speak from personal experience there

[00:32:31] I think all teenagers go through it they're like well you know it seems like this person likes me but maybe they don't really and maybe they'd like me better if I was completely different I mean this is a time in a lot of teenagers lives when they also try on lots of different personalities right like I went through a goth phase and then I went through like a hippie dippy phase and you got to try different things on so

[00:32:56] Buffy's sort of playing with the idea of what if I could be pretty and dress up and go to a ball and be a princess and then you know capture angels interest too because that's literally what it was especially when her and willow go we need to get that secret file that the watcher has

[00:33:13] Giles has in the library of watchers that secret one so willow winds up getting it that's where her infatuation with angel comes into place and why she wants to be one of those princesses or noble women of his time which later on we find out he's like I hated those girls they were too snobbish and boring

[00:33:37] and whether or not that's true it was the right thing for him to say to Buffy in that moment. Yes, true. In his 200 plus years of experience he has definitely learned what is the right thing to say in that situation. He handled it very nicely. He did, he's boyfriend material for now.

[00:33:58] But the funny thing is too is like even willow points it out when when Buffy's in that phase of the noble girl and the princess and she's just getting so frustrated like why can't you just be Buffy why can't you be the strong person that we know protect us. She goes she couldn't dress up like Zina.

[00:34:17] Yes, which was a popular show within that time because it was mid 90s and that's when Zina and Hercules hours happened on UPN and obviously you have that reference in there but it's so typical because every willow and Xander would think of that as well as Giles it's like she has to step in and her character

[00:34:41] does a complete turnaround which is what she would always want because she was one of those girls that was more about I need to be taken care of or I want the makeup I want to feel wanted as just being a woman.

[00:34:56] Yeah, and then you got a court of all things coming out and telling her in the bathroom because because they were talking about dating and and all this other stuff about what girls go through in that time.

[00:35:10] And she goes when it comes to dating I'm the slayer.

[00:35:13] So how pompous that Cordy is because Cordy just comes out about that so basically in the world of slaying vampires that's Buffy's world and in the world of I guess high school and meeting boys and getting dates.

[00:35:29] That's Cordy's world.

[00:35:31] Yeah, and she's just rubbing it right and when she says that it's like ooh yeah so mean you can tell that Buffy takes it in and internalizes it too.

[00:35:41] Exactly.

[00:35:43] I have to say that the Buffy Cordelia rivalry is not my favorite of the storylines in the series.

[00:35:52] It comes up several other times that the two of them sort of go head to head and and compete and it always makes me a little uncomfortable and I think it's because I was not one of those girls in high school and I think that Buffy wanting to be like hurtful.

[00:36:11] It hurts my soul a little bit since I love her so much.

[00:36:15] I'm like no you don't want to be one of those.

[00:36:17] Well at one point she was there is a flashback in future episodes that we do see she was one of those girls before she was a slayer.

[00:36:26] So look forward to that listeners if you're first time viewers because there is going to be an episode later on I'm forgetting which season.

[00:36:33] It's the season.

[00:36:35] It is the end of the season.

[00:36:37] So we get to see somebody's history and how they come about and where their journey brought them to Sunnydale but it it's an interesting concept of how they invoke all these stories and then they continue them and they come back to them.

[00:36:53] Yeah.

[00:36:55] The show does a really good job of that of like laying groundwork for future things to happen.

[00:37:00] Yeah the writing is there.

[00:37:01] It's a lot of callbacks.

[00:37:03] It's really it's it's one of the best strengths of the episode of the series and the same thing for Willow as well as well as Xander too because we do know this whole soldier persona he has does come into play later on in future seasons.

[00:37:19] He goes I still retain that soldier mentality or hey spoilers spoilers.

[00:37:24] Sorry.

[00:37:25] I'm sorry for the interaction.

[00:37:27] All right so in addition to Buffy being insecure about her femininity or her love ability Xander obviously we talked about this very insecure about his masculinity.

[00:37:39] Yeah Xander is problematic every episode he says at least one thing that makes me go like it's it's brutal in this one it was when he said I prefer my women in spandex ladies I was like oh I mean my skin crawl.

[00:37:55] It was brutal.

[00:37:57] Well even when he's talking to Larry and Larry I don't know I just don't love Xander most of it but when he says Larry says you know I heard some guys say she was fast and Xander is like I hope you mean like the wind and Larry is like you know what I mean one first of all how did that rumor get started it seems like Buffy doesn't talk to anybody.

[00:38:19] I'm assuming it would be her sexy dance with Xander at the bronze that everybody saw maybe maybe but other than that I don't know but when Xander reacted like hey buddy that's my friend I immediately was like OK Xander he was like it's only OK when I sexualize Buffy like you can do that.

[00:38:37] But it happens too much in my opinion they I think they should have eventually I think they phased out of that to some degree when there was a respect for her.

[00:38:48] Yeah later on I'm just saying it takes some time because each of them like each of the Scooby gang as well as Giles and Buffy yourself that whole gang that group come into their own and have a presence in Buffy's life that is very important to her who sits by her or stands by her in battle or in helping her out.

[00:39:12] And not only in a personal life but also in slang.

[00:39:18] Yeah and as we talked about in school hard in the school hard episode that community of friends and family that she has is something that really sets her apart from other slayers correctly and gives her strength and you know additional motivation that maybe some other slayers didn't have because they were you know lonely and cut off.

[00:39:42] Her connections to the world or strength it's a it's one of the themes that runs through the series as well is is that her emotions are something that she draws strength from and her connections and relationships even when they hurt her it gives her strength exactly much so.

[00:39:59] And just to finish my insecurity point we already talked about how willow was insecure about dressing.

[00:40:04] Yes. Sexy. Willow this brings us back to Mark.

[00:40:09] Well a point that I did like within the episode and it kind of becomes a little dated for for its time for the 90s.

[00:40:21] And it's with Snyder and his invoking the kids and like pointing out how Buffy is a a troublemaker and she has to do this for the public take these kids out.

[00:40:33] Oh you Xander and you will or doing it too. So they forced them to go take these kids out trick or treating from whatever till five o'clock or maybe six o'clock.

[00:40:44] And he makes the comment of like Snyder talks about shaving cream and toilet paper now and the fact that to during the time in the 90s it was at a time when even you don't really see many trick or treaters nowadays.

[00:41:00] If you see it as I do in my area but that's very hard. But put a smile to my face to see kids trick or treating and then damn taking them on that.

[00:41:14] And the one where you Buffy is in front of the house and the homeowner winds up giving toothbrushes and toothpaste as a treat.

[00:41:25] And she goes she must pay for this.

[00:41:29] We had a neighbor on our street that was a dentist and would always give out floss and you know little travel size toothpaste but he would also give out like king size candy bars at the same time.

[00:41:47] So at least you know yeah that's fine.

[00:41:50] That's fine. The worst candy and then the worst was the houses that would give you like Bible verses. Oh I never had that either. That doesn't sound fun.

[00:42:03] Word spreads real fast in the neighborhood like kids all talk to each other on the street they're like don't go to that house.

[00:42:11] My goodness. Yeah.

[00:42:13] You know they get like little pamphlets about Jesus or yeah.

[00:42:17] Yeah. What you call principal Snyder is like Buffy is dangerous. She's a troublemaker like here Buffy supervised this group of children for the night.

[00:42:27] Yeah. Like we never see any none of those children have parents apparently. So like they just like come to the high school and give them to random teenagers.

[00:42:38] It sounds like a terrible idea but it's so nice today would be a terrible idea.

[00:42:43] Oh yeah. I'm pretty sure that would have happened when I was in high school like that they would have been like we have a bunch of college of high school kids and they're going to you know teach these kids to swim and then your parents can all go to a party like I

[00:42:59] I feel like I myself was often left with children that were like the children of strangers and I was like you don't know if OK.

[00:43:07] Well I think about I started babysitting I think when I was 11 or 12 which really now I don't know if I'd let a 12 year old watch my dogs.

[00:43:18] Yeah. At this point I put children. I did to yeah 12 very different time. Now if you wanted to take a group of kids that weren't your own children trick or treating you'd probably have to go through like a background check.

[00:43:32] Yeah. Sign a few waivers. What's it called a quarry. Is that what it's called. Cori check. I don't know. There's a database that that like all teachers have to get checked against.

[00:43:44] Hmm. Interesting. That's interesting. Let's talk about Spike. Yeah. So I love Spike and I kind of sent in my little thing. I forgot how Sire works so thank you for correcting me.

[00:43:58] I forgot that that lady sired Spike. Oh yeah. I feel like that was a yeah I had to correct myself on my feedback. But yeah but as you said you know Angel could be a sire somebody that's above him and in that respect.

[00:44:13] But the fact is that he utilizes the whole spell and trick or treating to his advantage. Yeah. And I don't think they mentioned how demons and vampires feel during Halloween.

[00:44:30] Or how someone is celebrated in a regular common culture with humans. So I think that that's something that we'll talk in a spoiler episode for other stuff. But in this one he he uses the kids that are demons.

[00:44:48] Yeah. I love it. He's like he's like I need minions. I'll just recruit these ones and their little kids. Yeah.

[00:44:56] And he's like he talks to them about hunting Buffy and he describes her as the tenderest meat. Yeah.

[00:45:05] But he's just his appreciation when he's like you know standing out in the chaos and realizes what's going on is like well this is just meat. I love that line because it's so spike like he's thrilled he's like a little kid who's like look at this I didn't even have to do anything.

[00:45:23] Yeah. James Masters is so perfect as spike and I love him. I got to do a cameo with him and talk to him. Oh fun. And I asked him during it. I had time which is odd during the pandemic when I did that one with him.

[00:45:38] And I asked him I says it's true that you had Anthony Stewart head help you with your accent. And he goes yeah he was helpful with my training and getting it right because Anthony lived in the East and the London and that's how it's a cockney kind of talking

[00:45:57] and he got it and he would work with him on it and he coached him on it which is awesome. I like stories like that. I like thinking about you know I used to do theater and I used to love when I would like get together with somebody else who was in the cast and you know practice lines and talk about our parts

[00:46:15] and I like thinking about actors that I like doing that and being friendly with each other and supporting each other. It's cool. Yeah it is nice. He was also great in housing house on Haunted Hill when he made his little cameo there with Lisa Loeb in the very beginning of the movie.

[00:46:32] I haven't seen that before. Yeah that's another one I should not have watched at the age of it. Oh you watched it. You're far younger. I looked forward to that because I love the original Vincent Price version.

[00:46:44] Oh my gosh that movie. But he's just brilliant. That spike is brilliant and I you know the contrast to the way that spike talks about Buffy even apart from you know Xander and Larry's little back and forth. He reveres her almost.

[00:47:06] He respects her. He compliments her a good amount like when he's watching back the you know the recording of her fighting. The spy cam that somebody set up. Yeah which was a whole other special point. He was a voyeur vampire.

[00:47:24] Yeah he's like she's tricky. Like you see that where she stakes him with that thing and he's like that's what you call resourceful. And I love how you know they're kind of twisted back and forth you know dynamic but he absolutely respects her and

[00:47:42] and admires her. And I love I love every time he's on screen. Yeah he lights up the screen right like you cannot help but love seeing him. You know who he kind of reminds me of in in just sort of the vibe is Loki from the Marvel cinematic

[00:48:01] universe. Yes. Yeah. Comedic but the enemy or evil but charming and kind of dimwitted to yeah like not always not always making good decisions but impish and yeah innocent in his joyfulness at chaos like like

[00:48:23] like there's like yeah he's like spear. I think Spike is sort of a surprisingly inspired character and I don't I know that the the rumor is that he was only supposed to be in a few episodes and and then you know his part got expanded.

[00:48:42] I think James Masters brings something to that role that wasn't on the page. I think the things that he is doing with Spike are uniquely his there's a body language thing there's a way he touches his own chest sometimes.

[00:49:01] He is a remarkable actor. I've seen him in a lot of other things and he's always good but I'm always like I just want to see you as Spike forever. Yep. It's hard not to.

[00:49:14] Did you guys ever talk about the comics.

[00:49:17] Not yet maybe in between seasons we might do an episode about the comics. That'd be fun because there are lots of things that you know talking about for shadowing and callbacks there are so many things that end up coming up in the comics after the series wraps it'd be fun to talk about them.

[00:49:35] I haven't read all of them. I kept up with like the first year so I'll have to go and get get them and do some reading. Let's see. Oh Drusilla Drusilla was on point this episode.

[00:49:50] Is it eyeballs to entrails. She has the vision that something's going to come and make outsides become insides or it'll make her week and he's like it will he gets like it's so excited.

[00:50:07] Her awareness of Ethan literally is what it is. Somebody outside forces doing something which is pretty cool. Her clairvoyance is not usually 100% but it does come into play.

[00:50:26] It tends to be sort of poetic and so a lot of what she says depends on how Spike interprets it. Yeah right but I love it that he gets so excited like oh she's having a vision he's like ready.

[00:50:42] Yeah this is my life I follow this woman around the world just like creating chaos and violence awesome. He loves her so much. Yeah it's a match made in hell.

[00:50:56] It really is. My only other point was really that there are a lot of firsts in this episode that end up you know becoming important.

[00:51:13] First time we talked about seeing Giles as Ripper. First time we're introduced to Ethan Rain. This is also the first time that we see Larry and I don't think it's necessarily a huge spoiler.

[00:51:26] He goes to the school he'll pop up again. Yeah. And there's an interesting dynamic with him as a bully. We also you know see Willow and Oz actually bump into each other.

[00:51:41] So they have their first technical interaction in this episode and we get to see you know that as it develops. And I just anytime especially as a rewatch anytime we can pick out a first I get really excited.

[00:52:01] So that's something that I've been doing as we've been going through him and I just I don't know. That was the only other real point I had is how many little firsts that we get.

[00:52:12] And I think this is also the first time that we really get a solid indication of Drusilla's kind of seer abilities and her almost prophetic abilities. So that's always fun.

[00:52:31] I had a point about Ripper versus Ethan and we've already talked about it a little bit but I wanted to talk about the spell that Ethan casts. It's it's he worships this God the God of chaos and and he does the spell in front of the statue of Janus.

[00:52:52] He puts blood on his eyelids which really grossed me out. One of the lines he says is I remain as ever thy faithful degenerate son, which is really fantastic. I love the way Ethan speaks. I love the way he moves.

[00:53:09] He's very sort of cat like it seems like he's a little bit of a poet, a little bit of a romantic even. I'll talk more about Ethan in this spoiler section. When the spell takes hold, I feel like they did a really good job of showing the like the different people turning into their costumes.

[00:53:32] When the kids turn and that old lady is like what the fuck is happening?

[00:53:37] Kids are strangling her and devouring her too.

[00:53:43] Yeah, so scary and then like Willow is like can't breathe and then like yeah actually dies actually dies and floats out of her costume.

[00:53:53] I do think it's funny that she still makes noise when she walks her shoes on the ground or like clap clap clap. I'm like oh they probably should have edited that out.

[00:54:02] Yeah, but the best is when it hit Xander because the camera swoops in and Xander sort of like leans over and then pops back up with that gun and he reminds me so much of the Terminator when he does it.

[00:54:18] Yeah.

[00:54:19] That it had to be intentional.

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:21] It's fantastic and then there's like chaos everywhere right? There's like screaming and running and it's so fun and I kind of feel like Spike when he's like this is just neat. I'm like yeah.

[00:54:33] Like that's amazing as a TV show.

[00:54:35] It's just a good time.

[00:54:36] Yeah.

[00:54:37] Yeah.

[00:54:38] Especially when Xander gets his own payback for Larry and takes him out and Larry's the pirate.

[00:54:48] Yeah.

[00:54:49] Larry turns into a pirate. I was like I saw a laughing I'm like really? My network is called Piracorps.

[00:54:56] It's like okay but the funny thing was this also at first second I thought wait is he a vampire pirate or is he just a pirate?

[00:55:04] Oh he's just a pirate when I watched it again.

[00:55:06] He was so gross when he's like about to kiss Buffy with those like yellow gnarly teeth.

[00:55:12] Gnarly teeth? Oh it's so disgusting.

[00:55:14] Yeah.

[00:55:15] We don't see Buffy change into the princess character but I do enjoy when they're like watching the chaos and Willow's like Buffy what do we do?

[00:55:25] And Buffy just paints.

[00:55:27] Yep. Boom.

[00:55:28] Yep.

[00:55:29] Commedia timing at its perfection too.

[00:55:33] And it just sums up the whole thing.

[00:55:36] I also really enjoy all of the times that Buffy as the princess clings to Cordelia and Cordelia is like ugh get off of me.

[00:55:46] What is wrong with you?

[00:55:48] Take a pill.

[00:55:49] Like she just, Cordelia does not have any patience for it at all.

[00:55:53] Not at all.

[00:55:55] I do like, I think you know a lot of, I think Buffy's storyline might be my least favorite in this episode but I still enjoy it.

[00:56:04] There are some really good moments like I do like when the car is coming and Buffy's like a demon, a demon.

[00:56:11] Oh yeah.

[00:56:12] It's not a demon, it's a car.

[00:56:14] Yeah what does it want?

[00:56:16] And Xander it's just like it's this woman insane.

[00:56:19] And when Willow kind of explains what's going on he's like I hope you know I'm taking a lot on, what does he say?

[00:56:25] A lot on Faith Lady.

[00:56:27] Yeah.

[00:56:29] One of my most favorite lines is when Xander sees that photo of him, Willow and Buffy together and he's like oh you know she must be right we do have some kind of amnesia and the Buffy says I don't know what that is but I'm sure I don't have it.

[00:56:44] I bathe quite often.

[00:56:46] I say that to people like all the time and nobody ever gets it.

[00:56:54] I'll always be like oh I'm sure that's not it.

[00:56:56] I bathe quite often and then they always look at me like I'm insane and I'm like that was funny if you are obsessed with Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[00:57:04] It's such a good line.

[00:57:07] My favorite kinds of references.

[00:57:09] Yeah and then I also love, I was brought up a proper lady.

[00:57:12] I wasn't meant to understand things.

[00:57:14] I'm just meant to look pretty and then someone nice will marry me.

[00:57:18] Possibly a Baron.

[00:57:20] Oh my gosh.

[00:57:22] I'm like oh poor thing it's not going to be someone nice.

[00:57:24] It's a rich old man who is going to like rape you every night and make you have lots of babies.

[00:57:30] I'm sorry.

[00:57:32] That's the 18th century for ya.

[00:57:34] Yeah this episode has a lot of really fun lines.

[00:57:39] Cordelia at one point says when angels like what's happening and she's like they don't know who they are.

[00:57:45] Everyone's turned into a monster.

[00:57:47] It's a whole big thing.

[00:57:49] I just love it.

[00:57:52] Yeah especially Buffy's lines are good too and it dates her things that normal girls have to think about nail polish and facials.

[00:57:59] You know what I think about ambush tactics beheading.

[00:58:03] Not exactly the stuff dreams are made of.

[00:58:05] And it's a real good definition of what her life is which I really enjoy.

[00:58:13] It's kind of like the last episode that we covered Skoolhard where she's talking about her cream rinses.

[00:58:20] She's like this cream rinses neither creamy nor rinsy and she's got you know these typical teenage girl problems

[00:58:26] and then slayer problems.

[00:58:28] And watching her juggle those is part of the fun.

[00:58:34] Yeah but she still has Mr. Pointy.

[00:58:36] Yeah Mr. Pointy.

[00:58:38] And Gordo.

[00:58:40] Yeah good old Gordo.

[00:58:42] I think this episode though would absolutely be on any quintessential Buffy list.

[00:58:50] If I was making a list for myself to rewatch or a list for people to watch to kind of just get the essence of what Buffy as a show is.

[00:59:00] This is an excellent one.

[00:59:03] Well what the show does very well is just like every other show is like Community did it.

[00:59:10] A whole bunch other like even the Big Bang Theory.

[00:59:13] The Halloween episodes are so unique and different amongst each others.

[00:59:16] It's something that we all look forward to for every season because you know it's coming around and each one is so good.

[00:59:22] And I almost started putting off the top of my head like the next time we see a particular somebody.

[00:59:31] But and I was like wait a minute that was so many seasons later but it was it was such a good episode.

[00:59:37] And I was like oh man that's a good Halloween episode.

[00:59:41] No it's a spoiler at all in any way.

[00:59:44] But it's kind of vague.

[00:59:46] But the fact is like I would always suggest people to watch the Halloween episode.

[00:59:50] It's very much like how The Simpsons has a very Simpson Halloween and each is unique unto its own but there's so much fun.

[00:59:59] They really are.

[01:00:00] It's like kind of friends and Thanksgiving episodes.

[01:00:03] Those were some notable ones.

[01:00:06] There's some Seinfeld holiday episodes that are just classics.

[01:00:10] Yeah.

[01:00:11] It's just fun and festive especially for a show that has supernatural horror elements to it.

[01:00:19] You've got to go out on the Halloween episodes.

[01:00:22] Yeah totally right.

[01:00:24] Now did you guys discuss did you discuss the music that was within the episode too because.

[01:00:30] We haven't yet but please do.

[01:00:34] Well one was one song was from Trouble Charger how she died and that's when Willow walks in front of Oz's van at the very end when it catches Oz's eye as she's walking past.

[01:00:45] So that was a new and up and coming band.

[01:00:49] I thought that was pretty cool.

[01:00:51] And then Epperly did shy when Buffy and Angel talk like there was that moment when they're talking together in the bronze.

[01:01:01] I could not find for the life of me who the band was that was actually playing at the bronze though.

[01:01:08] Oh what song that was because that intrigued me the most.

[01:01:12] Yeah sometimes the bronze acts are really impressive and amazing.

[01:01:18] And I'm always like this bar is not big enough to support for example Amy Mann.

[01:01:23] I'm like there's no way.

[01:01:25] No yeah and I've seen her live.

[01:01:27] How are they attracting this talent?

[01:01:29] Michelle Branch at the height of her popularity.

[01:01:32] Oh yeah.

[01:01:34] She would not be at the bronze.

[01:01:36] No.

[01:01:37] Any other notes and stuff you guys want to talk about before we.

[01:01:41] Dive into news and stuff.

[01:01:44] And I just looked at my notes and they're all spoilery so.

[01:01:48] Yeah so spoiler section.

[01:01:50] Yep there's a question that we ask at this point of the episode Mark.

[01:01:57] Does it still slay.

[01:01:59] So you're asking me if you it's sleigh or nay.

[01:02:03] Yeah.

[01:02:05] I like it.

[01:02:07] You could use that I just thought about that when you I was listening to you guys originally podcast for the first time.

[01:02:13] I was like sleigh or nay basically I would say it's sleighs for a definitely a Halloween episode.

[01:02:21] Cool insights the duality aspect of it with the characters.

[01:02:28] The cool introduction of Giles that we've never known and who he was before and learning the name Ripper.

[01:02:38] I thought that was great seeing more Oz and then of course to the vampires the kills the demons and.

[01:02:48] Definitely of all things for me David Borean is smiling.

[01:02:54] In an episode.

[01:02:56] Rudy McBrudersen got to smile a little bit.

[01:03:01] It's so rare.

[01:03:03] Yeah.

[01:03:04] So Cara what do you say sleigh or nay.

[01:03:06] I definitely say it still slays not only is it just all around fun spike is in it so that automatically makes it a winner for the most part for me.

[01:03:17] But it's also one that there's not really anything super problematic that's still in it maybe the only thing is willow making a reference you know for me being wild equals spaz.

[01:03:30] Yeah that's kind of you know that's not really an accepted term anymore or Sanders.

[01:03:37] Yeah the way he talks about about.

[01:03:42] Yeah yeah you know sexualizing Buffy.

[01:03:46] Yeah which I guess I wish that was less prevalent now.

[01:03:52] Yeah I'm like I feel like that's it's that's the thing about Xander is he drives me nuts he says a lot of stuff that I find really offensive but I'm also like yeah that's a lot like how I remember teenage boys.

[01:04:04] I do try to keep keep in mind that he is portraying you know what are they high school sophomores at this point.

[01:04:12] I think they're juniors.

[01:04:13] Juniors yeah.

[01:04:14] So I try to keep that in mind when I start getting really irritated with standard give him a little bit of grace but I think you know for the most part it still slays I watch this every Halloween even if I'm not doing a rewatch of Buffy I watch the Halloween episode so this one is always on my list.

[01:04:33] Yeah I don't think I'll get tired of it.

[01:04:35] No me either.

[01:04:36] All right so it's unanimous three yay votes for still slays.

[01:04:42] All right we're going to take a little break and then we have some news and listener feedback.

[01:04:48] And we're back we have a little bit of news and this is so exciting.

[01:04:53] We I swear we did not know about this when we decided to launch this Buffy podcast but there's brand new Buffy content on the way.

[01:05:02] I got this from deadline Hollywood but it was all over the Internet that there is going to be a new audio series on audible.com written by Amber Benson alongside Christopher Golden and directed by Amber Benson Golden and someone named Casey Wayland.

[01:05:21] It's called Slayers a Buffy verse story and it's going to be centered around James Marsters character spike who we all love.

[01:05:30] There are a bunch of original cast members who are going to appear in it.

[01:05:35] Chris McCarpenter Anthony Stuart head Juliet Landau Emma Caulfield Emma Caulfield Ford Amber Benson James Charles Leary.

[01:05:46] I don't know who that is and Danny Strong are all confirmed to be in it and I read one article that said like there's other people so that's exciting.

[01:05:56] It's a parallel universe story.

[01:05:59] It picks up 10 years after the series finale of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and spike is deep undercover in Los Angeles convincing the forces of darkness that he's back to is evil ways.

[01:06:14] And then I didn't copy anything else from the article because I thought it was spoilery.

[01:06:18] I will say a mildly spoilery about who James Charles Leary.

[01:06:26] Oh yes yeah.

[01:06:27] Yeah he is the actor who played Clem.

[01:06:31] Oh Clem.

[01:06:32] I love Clem.

[01:06:34] He was a cool character.

[01:06:36] I'm excited.

[01:06:37] Awesome.

[01:06:38] Without being a spoiler everybody we'll go into spoilers later.

[01:06:41] Yeah.

[01:06:42] He played a character.

[01:06:44] That's all you could say.

[01:06:47] And then also Allison Hanigan is on this season of Dancing with the Stars.

[01:06:53] She's been posting about it on like Instagram and stuff.

[01:06:56] I have never watched Dancing with the Stars but I know that a lot of people love it and probably there's a big overlap with people who love Allison Hanigan from Buffy or how I met your mother.

[01:07:08] I don't think I've ever watched an episode of that either.

[01:07:11] Yeah it doesn't really appeal to me but that's fine something for everyone.

[01:07:16] Free story.

[01:07:18] So let's go and have a drink at the bronze and hear what some of our listeners have to say.

[01:07:24] Bronze things.

[01:07:26] Things of bronze.

[01:07:28] Love it.

[01:07:29] So first up we have feedback from Instagram.

[01:07:34] Side note if you're not already following us on Instagram you can follow us at atstillslangcast.

[01:07:41] And this bit of feedback comes from Jolene Abbey.

[01:07:45] She says Willow is the hero of this one especially for she couldn't have dressed up as Zena.

[01:07:51] Also the introduction of Giles as Ripper makes him even more interesting.

[01:07:56] I 100% agree.

[01:07:58] Same here.

[01:07:59] Exactly yeah.

[01:08:01] We have three voicemails from various parts of the planet.

[01:08:06] I'm gonna start us off with Steve Brown.

[01:08:10] I bet this is a live Steve.

[01:08:12] Let's see what we got.

[01:08:14] Hello Still Slaying.

[01:08:15] This is Steve and I'm sorry I missed your debut episode school hard but I have to admit a couple of things.

[01:08:22] I have watched this Buffy the Vampire Slayer series from the beginning.

[01:08:26] I watched it when it aired originally.

[01:08:28] I have watched it multiple times.

[01:08:31] I am currently in a rewatch another podcast that doesn't really take feedback so I'm excited to have this one get feedback

[01:08:40] and when it catches up with that other podcast.

[01:08:44] I may still try to do some live Steve's with these episodes but there is one thing that I have to admit right up front

[01:08:51] and I feel like an idiot, like a grand idiot about school hard is I have never until your podcast compared it with the movie Die Hard.

[01:09:02] I can't believe I never, like I'm such a fan of Die Hard.

[01:09:06] I literally have a poster of Die Hard the movie on my living room wall.

[01:09:11] I went to see that movie.

[01:09:13] I don't know like 12 times in the theater before I joined the Air Force and I can't believe I didn't make this connection with school hard.

[01:09:21] I never have over the last 25, 26 years so when you said it just literally blew my mind and I was like I can't believe I'm such an idiot.

[01:09:30] So thank you for that.

[01:09:32] Halloween, I don't know if I'm going to make the deadline for it.

[01:09:35] I hope I do. If I don't, no big. I'll try to make the next one.

[01:09:39] Another great episode, Xander gets to punch out the pirate guy when they're in costume and he's like that feels strangely cathartic.

[01:09:50] I love that line from him.

[01:09:53] It's a moment when the kids are trick or treating at the door and they actually change into real demons.

[01:09:58] Gosh, just hilarious.

[01:10:00] Buffy being this damsel in distress that we've never seen before.

[01:10:05] Just amazing and Spike everything about this episode is great and I can't wait to hear more of what you're going to be talking about for the rest of this podcast.

[01:10:17] Talk to you later.

[01:10:18] I can't believe shout out to Mark, my fellow co-host on panels to pixels.

[01:10:22] Great to hear you on this episode. I can't wait to hear your insight into Halloween.

[01:10:26] Talk to you later.

[01:10:27] Thanks, Steve.

[01:10:28] That's awesome.

[01:10:29] Yeah.

[01:10:30] I'm really glad that the diehard little fact made you so happy. That's awesome.

[01:10:36] It made me happy too because I didn't know that aspect.

[01:10:39] I didn't put two and two together even back then.

[01:10:42] It was like, oh my goodness. It's right in my face.

[01:10:46] He does actually have a poster of diehard.

[01:10:50] When we podcast I can see it sometimes.

[01:10:53] That's fantastic.

[01:10:54] Awesome.

[01:10:55] All right. We have another voicemail from on when my co-host on the cast of the rings.

[01:11:02] If you're Lord of the Rings fan, check us out.

[01:11:04] We cover rings of power as well as other stuff that's Lord of the Rings related.

[01:11:09] So here is on when from New Zealand.

[01:11:14] Hi, Penny and Cara. Thank you so much for this Buffy rewatch podcast.

[01:11:19] I'm so excited and thrilled to be watching.

[01:11:22] I've been looking for an excuse to rewatch Buffy for ages and I'm a little bit thrilled

[01:11:27] that you're just picking a few good episodes because it's a lot to try and get back to all of them.

[01:11:35] I really enjoyed watching this introduction of Spike on Andrew's Silla last week.

[01:11:42] Such cool entrants for both of them.

[01:11:45] They're both such extreme characters and so much fun to watch.

[01:11:49] The look that he gives Buffy when he comes into the bronze and sees her is so intense

[01:11:56] and obviously, you know, he wants to kill her but that look that he gives her where

[01:12:00] the rings fixed by her is fantastic, especially knowing everything that happens later in the season.

[01:12:06] No spoilers.

[01:12:08] This episode, Halloween is really great as well.

[01:12:11] I love all the little snippets we get Oz and Willow.

[01:12:15] Just kind of he's noticing her which is really cool.

[01:12:19] Early Cordelia is fantastic as well.

[01:12:22] What's your deal? Take a pal.

[01:12:24] She's great and it just reminds me how great the writing is in this show.

[01:12:28] The dialogue is so fun and Buffy being completely helpless is a really fun change from normal.

[01:12:35] I don't want to go with you. I like the man with the musket. Do you have a musket?

[01:12:39] It was hilarious.

[01:12:41] And finally, I absolutely love our first glimpse of Ripper.

[01:12:46] So we get to see a little bit of perhaps Giles's past being a little bit different from what we might expect.

[01:12:53] I'll be listening along with you guys. Super excited. Thank you so much.

[01:12:58] Thanks, Anwen. Always good to hear your voice and that lovely New Zealand accent that we get so many positive reviews about on Apple podcasts.

[01:13:09] Especially for a Lord of the Rings podcast. It does make me happy.

[01:13:13] Yeah, it's really perfect.

[01:13:16] And Anwen is like the sweetest person. I love working with her. It's fantastic.

[01:13:22] All right, our last voicemail is from Jody from Australia.

[01:13:28] Penny and Cara, it's Jody from Australia here. I'm so stoked that you've started this podcast.

[01:13:33] And I can't believe the timing. This is awesome.

[01:13:35] I actually started a rewatch of Buffy a couple of weeks ago because I needed to watch something familiar and comforting but that I hadn't seen recently.

[01:13:43] And now I even get to talk about it with you. So I'm pretty excited.

[01:13:46] Thank you so much for inviting me to the bronze. I feel particularly special.

[01:13:50] I did want to touch on the pilot episode of the series for a minute if you could indulge me.

[01:13:55] And the reason I want to do this is because of the movie.

[01:13:58] So the movie came out in 1992 and despite what would be considered today a kick-ass cast,

[01:14:05] they had Donald Sutherland, Hillary Swank, David Arquette, Luke Perry playing against type as a geek and totally not believable because he was way too hot to be the guy that girls didn't notice.

[01:14:16] The movie was widely considered a flop.

[01:14:18] And I'm remembering this so it's possible that I'm exaggerating but I'm pretty sure the hype around the Buffy TV series initially was that it was a complete waste of time.

[01:14:27] The movie had already flopped what was the point of doing a series that built off it.

[01:14:30] But as we all know, the series was a smash hit.

[01:14:33] Now, I personally loved the movie. It was so fun and I was the right age to really enjoy it.

[01:14:38] But a movie really wasn't the right format to achieve the depth that the story needed.

[01:14:43] And the existence and legacy of the movie had the potential to hinder the launch of the TV series.

[01:14:48] But here's what I really think made the TV series the smash that it is and it's a few different things.

[01:14:54] At the end of the movie, Buffy was considered a hero.

[01:14:57] She won. She burned down the gym.

[01:14:59] She killed all the vampires saving everyone in a heroic move.

[01:15:03] But in the first episode of the TV series, we saw the consequences of her heroic actions.

[01:15:08] So the TV series opens with Buffy as a heavily monitored delinquent who previously fell in with the wrong crowd and got kicked out of her old school for fighting and burning down the gym.

[01:15:18] Her mum doesn't trust her. Her principal is looking at her as a troublemaker.

[01:15:22] It's a really stark contrast to who she really is on the inside as a hero fighting for humanity.

[01:15:27] And the sacrifices that come with this being the slayer are immediately apparent in the pilot of the TV series when they weren't even mentioned in the movie.

[01:15:36] In the movie she was just set up as a hero.

[01:15:38] So I think this and the depth of law that could be explored in the show as well as the insanely fantastic quips that the writers came up with for the different characters.

[01:15:47] Buffy and Cordelia in particular are the basis of the success of the TV series really.

[01:15:54] My favourite clip from Buffy in episode one when she's confronted by a vampire wanting to fight her.

[01:16:00] Are you sure? Because this is not going to be pretty.

[01:16:02] We're talking violence, strong language, adult content and then she dusts the vampire creeping up on her from behind. She's awesome.

[01:16:09] My favourite clip from Cordelia in episode one she says to Buffy, what is your childhood trauma?

[01:16:14] It's just so heathers was great.

[01:16:17] So the TV series as it goes on and it starts in the pilot but as it goes on also subverts tropes on a regular basis that we have been seeing pretty regularly until then.

[01:16:26] So the best one from episode one is when Buffy is being followed by Angel.

[01:16:30] And as a viewer you're quite convinced she's in danger because she's a tiny girl, she's being followed by a large strange man down the street.

[01:16:37] But in the next scene Buffy is lying wait for Angel and turns the tables on him and ambushes him.

[01:16:42] So the way she's lying and wait for him and quickly obtains the other hand, upper hand in the situation by 90s standards was completely unexpected.

[01:16:51] I'm also loving seeing the pre-social media pre-tech in your pocket world as a Gen X that's the world I grew up in and it was great to be reminded of how things used to work.

[01:17:01] We carried books and notebooks around at school. We had landlines so we had to make our plans in advance and stick to them.

[01:17:07] You had to tell your parents where you were going to be and then be there.

[01:17:11] The library at the school doesn't even have a computer.

[01:17:14] The television in Buffy's room is a massive cube and not one selfie was taken in those halls at that school in the pilot episode.

[01:17:22] Anyway I just wanted to share that with you about episode one. This got a little long so I'm going to save future comments for the next episode you guys cover.

[01:17:29] I can't wait to listen to your thoughts on the episodes you've chosen.

[01:17:33] Thanks again for doing this podcast guys, I'm really excited.

[01:17:36] Oh my god, thank you so much Jodi and I want everyone to be clear on this.

[01:17:41] Send in comments about any episode up to the one we're covering.

[01:17:46] Like we're happy to hear all of that stuff and if you want to have a spoilery comment just label it, spoilers and then send it in and we'll play it at the end during the spoiler section.

[01:17:59] We want to hear your thoughts on everything about Buffy and we'll make it work within the podcast.

[01:18:05] It's so fun to hear from people, especially people like on the other side of the planet.

[01:18:10] I love that. I'll never get tired of it.

[01:18:12] Well Jodi's message made me think Buffy for some reason is one of those shows more so than others.

[01:18:20] When I'm rewatching it, I'm always like man a cell phone would ruin this episode.

[01:18:25] All of these characters had like, you know, easier access to the internet on their phones or the ability to text each other.

[01:18:34] There are so many plots that would have just been shot to shit basically.

[01:18:39] When cell phones first started being pretty common in the late 90s, the trope was always, oh no, I don't have a signal.

[01:18:50] Like they had to do that every time.

[01:18:53] And I remember there's an episode of Charmed where two of the sisters are transported like into some subterranean like layer and one of them still has signal and she's like, this new phone is amazing.

[01:19:13] That just cracks me up so funny.

[01:19:16] Geez.

[01:19:17] Thank you guys everybody for writing in and following us and joining us on this journey.

[01:19:23] It means the world to me to be doing this podcast and that I have a co-host who loves Buffy as much as I do.

[01:19:31] I'm so happy right now, you guys.

[01:19:33] It's so much fun.

[01:19:35] It's great.

[01:19:36] Well, that is the end of the main section of the podcast.

[01:19:40] Stay tuned if you want to hear the spoiler discussion.

[01:19:45] So many spoilers.

[01:19:47] If you'd like to join the conversation or find out more about podcastica, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:19:55] You can write in or record a message right there on the website or find links to our social media pages and our other shows.

[01:20:04] Right now we have a lot going on at podcastica.

[01:20:07] They're about to start White Lotus season two.

[01:20:11] Ahsoka is going strong.

[01:20:14] Wheel of Time.

[01:20:16] Oh, Loki comes out soon.

[01:20:19] What else is going on?

[01:20:21] That's true.

[01:20:22] I've been re-listening to older episodes, I'll say, because that's always a plus.

[01:20:29] If there's something out there that's excellent, especially in kind of our niche of fun, kind of nerdy fandoms,

[01:20:39] there's a podcastica show covering it.

[01:20:42] I was late to Breaking Bad and listening to how much Jason especially loved that show,

[01:20:48] maybe finally start watching it and now I'm into Better Call Saul.

[01:20:51] So I've been listening to the podcastica coverage of Better Call Saul.

[01:20:55] So there's plenty out there.

[01:20:57] There's plenty.

[01:20:58] Yeah, you could look forward to Cobra Kai when that comes out.

[01:21:02] There was talk about interview with a vampire as well being covered.

[01:21:07] That'd be fun.

[01:21:08] When Netflix comes back with Sandman, look forward to hearing me and Jamie Dimick on Sandman Cast.

[01:21:16] I love it.

[01:21:17] That's what I do for podcastica as well.

[01:21:19] So this is a whole podcastica family out there.

[01:21:22] Yeah, and Ben and Kristen are about to start Ted Lasso on the Revisited.

[01:21:29] Yeah.

[01:21:30] There aren't enough hours in the day.

[01:21:33] I have such a backlog of podcasts I want to listen to.

[01:21:37] It's ridiculous.

[01:21:39] But you know, I'd rather have too much content than not enough.

[01:21:44] Exactly.

[01:21:46] And if you like what we do, hit like, follow and subscribe.

[01:21:50] It really helps the other listeners find us.

[01:21:53] And next time on this show, we'll be covering season two episode 11, Ted.

[01:21:59] And we'll be joined by Randy Stevenson, one of the hosts of podcastica's Welcome to the White Lotus podcast.

[01:22:06] I'm pretty excited to cover Ted with John Ritter.

[01:22:10] It's an amazing episode.

[01:22:12] And do remember to check out Mark's website.

[01:22:15] Mark, make sure I'm saying this correctly.

[01:22:17] Is it PirateCore Entertainment?

[01:22:19] Yep, PirateCoreEntertainment.com.

[01:22:22] And listen to Adrenaline Cinema podcast and panels to Pixels.

[01:22:27] Yep.

[01:22:28] Thank you for joining us.

[01:22:31] Thank you.

[01:22:32] Be seeing you.

[01:22:34] All right, that's the end of the non-spoiler section.

[01:22:38] If you want to avoid spoilers, you should stop listening in three, two, one, now!

[01:22:46] On to the Watchers Diaries.

[01:22:50] It's too bad we can't sneak a look at the Watcher Diaries.

[01:22:53] I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell.

[01:22:56] Yeah, that's too bad.

[01:22:59] That stuff is private.

[01:23:01] Also, Giles keeps them in his office and his personal files.

[01:23:06] Most importantly, it would be wrong.

[01:23:12] All right, now we can get out all the stuff we wanted to talk about before.

[01:23:16] I can say, I love Ethan Rain.

[01:23:19] I think he's one of the best TV villains ever.

[01:23:22] So much fun.

[01:23:24] I love watching him.

[01:23:26] I wish that he and Spike had had time together.

[01:23:30] Yeah.

[01:23:31] I think they would have been a really terrifying team actually because they would have really hit it off

[01:23:38] and it could have been dangerous for the entire world.

[01:23:41] Ethan is considerably smarter.

[01:23:44] I think when it comes to his evil plots, then Spike.

[01:23:48] So putting them together would be pretty tumultuous.

[01:23:52] And he always seems to come back whereas Spike comes back but he's consistently back for a while,

[01:23:59] leaves for a short time and then comes back even longer.

[01:24:03] Yeah.

[01:24:04] There's a great moment in season four when Ethan gets caught by Buffy and Riley and he goes,

[01:24:12] I have to learn to leave town.

[01:24:14] It's the staying around and gloating that gets me every time.

[01:24:17] Yep.

[01:24:18] And I think that was the same episode that I was thinking about when the candy bars

[01:24:23] and everybody gets turned into little kids.

[01:24:25] No, that's season three.

[01:24:27] That's season three.

[01:24:28] Land candy.

[01:24:29] I love that.

[01:24:30] Oh, I love that because it's like you get to see a version of Giles that we never got to see before

[01:24:37] in that particular episode and Joyce and him get together and Buffy.

[01:24:44] But I think we get to notice his tattoo at that point as well.

[01:24:48] Yep.

[01:24:49] And Joyce is like this boy crazy teenager.

[01:24:55] Chewing gum the whole time.

[01:24:57] Yep.

[01:24:59] That's a good one.

[01:25:00] I will say so your mention of Xander and the way that they milk this experience he had as a soldier.

[01:25:10] Soldier.

[01:25:11] Like forever.

[01:25:13] They do even up to the point where Anya is in the Scooby Gang.

[01:25:18] Yeah, like I think it's even up through like season seven.

[01:25:22] I think there's even like.

[01:25:23] Or maybe the battle.

[01:25:25] The ending battle of the finale to.

[01:25:28] Yeah, like and it's it made me wonder every time I watched this episode, I was like so these poor children.

[01:25:36] Oh, dressed up as like demon.

[01:25:40] The big nun out of these kids.

[01:25:42] Do they retain these memories like it's just that little kid.

[01:25:46] Yeah.

[01:25:47] Strangling and ripping apart that little thing.

[01:25:49] Or eating your throat out.

[01:25:51] Yeah, like they must horribly traumatic experiences like good on the kid that dressed up as a doctor.

[01:25:58] Like maybe they retain some sort of medical medical knowledge or something like that.

[01:26:04] But yeah, the monster kids have to be completely freaked out.

[01:26:08] Therapists must be a really, really good job to have in Sunnydale.

[01:26:14] Yeah.

[01:26:15] Because there are going to be a lot of messed up children, especially after that.

[01:26:20] But it's just, it makes me wonder.

[01:26:23] I mean, Buffy, I wish they would kind of throw back some callbacks with her like remembering.

[01:26:28] I don't know, like some sort of eight.

[01:26:31] Yeah, like 18th century etiquette or formalities that come out every now and then.

[01:26:37] But I can't really blame them for using Xander's military knowledge in the future.

[01:26:43] It does come in handy.

[01:26:45] Yeah.

[01:26:46] And it's funny when it comes up.

[01:26:48] What I always have wondered about Xander is how come he never has like taken a boxing class

[01:26:57] or martial arts training or sword training?

[01:27:01] He's just like, I'm going to get in there and fight.

[01:27:04] But he never, oh.

[01:27:06] And the only athletic thing he had done was what?

[01:27:09] Join the Swentine.

[01:27:10] Yeah.

[01:27:11] Oh yeah.

[01:27:12] Oh gosh that episode.

[01:27:13] That made me laugh though.

[01:27:15] Oh it's a hilarious episode.

[01:27:17] So once you know that vampires and demons are a thing and you live on a hell mouth and

[01:27:24] you are best friends with the Slayer, inevitably you're going to get into some sort of physical

[01:27:31] conflict.

[01:27:32] You know, I would want to prepare myself as much as possible.

[01:27:37] Yeah, I would be training.

[01:27:39] I'd be like, well I need to learn how to use a sword or a knife or a steak.

[01:27:46] And Willow does, she starts doing the black arts and she becomes a witch and she's very

[01:27:52] powerful.

[01:27:53] But Xander, he just learns how to do basic construction.

[01:27:58] Yeah.

[01:27:59] It's so weird.

[01:28:01] He's always fixing the mess that Buffy makes.

[01:28:05] He's rebuilding the house.

[01:28:07] You know, especially in this episode when they see how crazy things are, when they don't have

[01:28:13] Buffy to help, like you gotta have some sort of skill.

[01:28:18] Well especially when she died again, spoilers.

[01:28:23] She was gone and they had Robo Buffy.

[01:28:27] The Buffy Bot, remember that?

[01:28:29] The Buffy Bot, yeah.

[01:28:30] That was a special time with Spike.

[01:28:34] Oh God, especially when he used that.

[01:28:37] Oh well, we'll get there.

[01:28:39] We have several seasons to go but we're gonna get there.

[01:28:42] That might be part of Spike that I didn't like.

[01:28:44] But I think one of my favorite comments that I can't remember if it was on Instagram,

[01:28:49] on somebody else's post about Halloween, somebody had said, what if that Halloween

[01:28:55] Warren had dressed like a mad scientist who was also a misogynist?

[01:28:59] Oh.

[01:29:00] And that's what happened to him.

[01:29:02] I was like, that is character and I was like, that is a deep cut.

[01:29:06] That is, I saw that.

[01:29:09] I was like, man, that's good.

[01:29:11] I like that.

[01:29:12] Well, I like how this episode sort of foreshadows one of my all-time favorite episodes,

[01:29:17] which is Helpless in season three, the one where they take away her powers.

[01:29:21] Yes.

[01:29:22] You know, seeing Buffy weak and vulnerable is interesting and confusing.

[01:29:28] Helpless, I think is just really a brilliant episode.

[01:29:32] It changes Buffy and Giles' relationship forever.

[01:29:37] And I love that.

[01:29:38] You love the trust, yeah.

[01:29:39] That Joy's at the end is so proud of Buffy.

[01:29:42] She's like, oh, she was very clever.

[01:29:44] Like she's completely turned around on Buffy being the slayer.

[01:29:48] And oh my God.

[01:29:50] And that reference to where, you know, I do enjoy the dynamic between Willow and Buffy.

[01:29:58] These two teenage girls talking about Angel and wanting to go into Giles' Watcher Diaries

[01:30:04] to find out more about him.

[01:30:05] And when Willow's reassuring Buffy, you know, he would never fall for someone like Cordelia.

[01:30:13] Like that here.

[01:30:14] And I was just like, well, not yet.

[01:30:16] Yeah.

[01:30:17] Give it a few years.

[01:30:18] Give it a time until he goes back to being a teenager.

[01:30:21] Yeah, I was like, well, we'll see.

[01:30:23] Yeah.

[01:30:24] It's coming.

[01:30:25] And he's smoking cigarettes and listening to Cream with Joyce.

[01:30:30] And he goes, she goes, you got cool records.

[01:30:32] Yeah.

[01:30:33] And he's listening to the Tales of the Great, Ulysses.

[01:30:36] And he's like, let's go out and get out of here.

[01:30:38] Giles, yeah.

[01:30:39] That whole scene that's in my head.

[01:30:40] I was starting to write notes off the top of my head.

[01:30:42] And I was like, wait a minute.

[01:30:43] That is a completely different episode with Ethan Rain.

[01:30:46] Yeah.

[01:30:47] That's a different season.

[01:30:48] We'll get that out.

[01:30:49] Yeah, but it was funny.

[01:30:51] Things tend to meld when I binge watch these shows and I'll full sleep to them.

[01:30:57] And they just subconsciously eat the memories.

[01:30:59] Like even the John Ritter episode.

[01:31:02] But the best one episode that I always loved was Homecoming, which was the predecessor

[01:31:08] and the idea and thought for Cabin in the Woods.

[01:31:11] Oh, which one is Homecoming?

[01:31:13] Is it really?

[01:31:14] Yes.

[01:31:15] That's where the idea of Cabin in the Woods came from.

[01:31:18] How did I look?

[01:31:19] I watched Cabin in the Woods three days ago and I watched that episode last week.

[01:31:24] I don't know how I didn't.

[01:31:26] That's the Homecoming when Buffy and Corry go for Homecoming Queen.

[01:31:31] Oh, right.

[01:31:32] And they take the limo together.

[01:31:33] They're forced here.

[01:31:34] We got this limo for you and the limo gets hijacked and they're taken to, and they

[01:31:39] call it Slayer Fest, but they think Corry is Faith.

[01:31:43] Yep.

[01:31:44] And they're stuck in a cabin and they have to face off against these like demon,

[01:31:48] vampire, bounty hunters that are looking to kill.

[01:31:51] Oh yeah.

[01:31:52] And literally that's where they got the epitaph for Cabin in the Woods.

[01:31:56] But the cool thing about that it pits Corry and Buffy together and their

[01:32:01] differences about each other come out in that.

[01:32:05] And they have a huge spat and I think that's where they make up at a

[01:32:08] certain point.

[01:32:09] Yeah.

[01:32:10] And I think that's after Corry broke up with Xander at that point too.

[01:32:17] So many good episodes.

[01:32:19] I know season three, we're going to have a hard time picking what to cover

[01:32:24] and what not to cover them.

[01:32:26] And I wanted to, you know, with Larry, the introduction of Larry in this

[01:32:30] episode, you know, we see him bullying Xander off and on and later it's

[01:32:35] revealed that he is gay and that's something that he struggled with.

[01:32:41] And I always wonder if they knew that about him or if it just kind of came

[01:32:47] out later on because the way that he turns into this, you know, kind of

[01:32:53] horrible womanizing rapist pirate being as, you know,

[01:33:00] It's because it's the spell.

[01:33:02] It's the complete opposite of who he really is.

[01:33:04] Exactly.

[01:33:05] Like, I think they probably had that really like that.

[01:33:08] Yeah, I think they had that hidden.

[01:33:10] The Larry being gay plot was already in the works of this play.

[01:33:14] Yeah.

[01:33:15] And it just, you know, it makes the writing of this episode and the

[01:33:19] callbacks and the call forwards and foreshadowing and everything.

[01:33:22] Yeah.

[01:33:23] So much deeper in how, you know, Larry is not just a typical

[01:33:29] high school like two dimensional character bully.

[01:33:32] We see one of the reasons why he bullies and projects and I, you

[01:33:38] know, even as a side character, he has a satisfying arc.

[01:33:42] Yeah.

[01:33:43] Like it's, he gets development in this arc that I think is nice

[01:33:47] with some of the side characters in this show.

[01:33:50] Like everybody gets like some attention in development.

[01:33:53] Even in this one for Halloween, the Halloween episode, the first

[01:33:56] one we get a sneak peek of Jonathan.

[01:33:59] Oh yeah.

[01:34:00] Yeah.

[01:34:01] Real quick, but he's not really mean, but they bring him back later

[01:34:04] on as the core group and it's, I always love that character because

[01:34:08] even though they were nerdy and malicious and there was something

[01:34:15] to their core, which was innocent.

[01:34:17] Yeah.

[01:34:18] I was him and the other, except for the one that I really,

[01:34:20] well, you know, willa did exactly what I wanted, which

[01:34:23] was kill them.

[01:34:24] Yeah.

[01:34:25] Warren, Warren was the one that I think was purely, you know,

[01:34:28] Evil.

[01:34:29] Evil to his core.

[01:34:30] Andrew and Jonathan are definitely more, you know, their

[01:34:34] followers, right?

[01:34:35] Yeah.

[01:34:36] They just did basically what Warren told them to do.

[01:34:40] Yes.

[01:34:41] We didn't cover Reptile Boy for the reasons that I said, but it

[01:34:44] is a major foreshadow to what happens later in the season.

[01:34:49] Oh, exactly.

[01:34:50] It's about how even a pretty faced man who's polite and nice

[01:34:55] to you could still have a very dark,

[01:34:59] Dark demon.

[01:35:00] Vile agenda underneath and you can't, you don't know when

[01:35:04] someone's going to turn and dating is an act of faith for

[01:35:09] women, right?

[01:35:10] Like you go out into the world and you're like, hope this

[01:35:12] guy doesn't kill me.

[01:35:13] Like you just, it's a powerful episode.

[01:35:17] I was really blown away when I rewatched it.

[01:35:20] I was like, ah, I don't remember how, how intense this is.

[01:35:25] Like they get fully roofied at that party.

[01:35:28] It's disturbing.

[01:35:29] Yeah.

[01:35:30] It's so unsettling and even I think the first time I saw

[01:35:34] that episode, I was doing my first watch in college when

[01:35:39] I was, you know, getting the Netflix DVDs and the mail

[01:35:43] for Buffy.

[01:35:44] And it didn't even hit me back then as much as it

[01:35:49] did now.

[01:35:50] And I, I don't know, it was very unsettling and especially

[01:35:55] after, you know, being a prosecutor and prosecuting

[01:36:00] certain crimes of sexual assault, the, I was sitting

[01:36:06] there the whole episode going, this is brilliant.

[01:36:08] Like the intricacies and the themes and everything that

[01:36:12] they work in and how predatory these particular

[01:36:16] guys were.

[01:36:17] It was so well done.

[01:36:19] Yeah.

[01:36:20] I, um, at one point I had written in my notes, frat bros

[01:36:24] trolling for girls at the high school gross.

[01:36:27] And then I was moving it in my notes.

[01:36:29] So I, I cut it and then I walked, I pasted it and

[01:36:33] like walked away from my laptop.

[01:36:35] And when I came back, my cat had been sitting on

[01:36:37] the computer and it was an entire page of frat bros

[01:36:41] trolling for girls at the high school gross frat

[01:36:44] bros trolling for girls at the high school gross.

[01:36:46] Over and over and over.

[01:36:48] That's funny.

[01:36:50] We really wanted to make that point.

[01:36:52] Yeah.

[01:36:53] That's a really good point, but like nobody, like the

[01:36:55] principle of the high school or like no adult comes

[01:36:58] out and is like, why are you two adult men here

[01:37:02] picking up high school girls?

[01:37:03] Like get the fuck out of here.

[01:37:04] I'm so creepy.

[01:37:06] It's like you are not mature for your age.

[01:37:08] Yeah.

[01:37:09] And we don't get to see frat stuff again until

[01:37:13] she goes into college and she has that thing where

[01:37:15] she goes to the bar and she's drinking.

[01:37:17] Oh, I love that episode.

[01:37:19] The caveman.

[01:37:20] Yeah.

[01:37:21] The caveman.

[01:37:22] And she's just like part of them.

[01:37:24] She winds up beating the hell out of them as well too

[01:37:26] as a caveman with her powers.

[01:37:28] Yeah.

[01:37:29] But it shows that bonehead mentality of what they

[01:37:33] are and then Buffy was part of that too.

[01:37:36] At least those guys weren't rapacious like these

[01:37:38] guys are.

[01:37:39] Although it's, I mean it's a metaphor for rape,

[01:37:41] right?

[01:37:42] It's a fake.

[01:37:43] Yeah.

[01:37:44] It's not a subtle metaphor.

[01:37:45] No, it's not a subtle.

[01:37:46] Right.

[01:37:47] I was like it's definitely pointed and.

[01:37:49] Yeah.

[01:37:50] It's meant to be an ambiguous commentary.

[01:37:52] I forgot to mention when I was doing the summary

[01:37:54] that future Ozark star, Jordana Spiro has a

[01:37:59] small role in that episode.

[01:38:01] That's right.

[01:38:02] She's also.

[01:38:03] Yeah, Jordana Spiro.

[01:38:04] Yeah.

[01:38:05] On My Boys.

[01:38:06] Which was a.

[01:38:07] Me too.

[01:38:08] I was really sad that that went away.

[01:38:11] Yeah.

[01:38:12] That was a good one.

[01:38:14] And Kara, you mentioned of course you inadvertently

[01:38:17] mentioned James Charles Leary.

[01:38:20] That's clever.

[01:38:21] We could talk about that.

[01:38:22] He was such a favorite character of mine even

[01:38:25] though it's like he comes off.

[01:38:26] He looks that way.

[01:38:27] Oh, he's so fun.

[01:38:28] Even though he spikes best friend after Spike

[01:38:31] was neutered.

[01:38:32] He's so sweet.

[01:38:34] I love everything about Clem.

[01:38:36] Like there's that one episode where.

[01:38:40] He's watching Dawn and he's like maybe we could go to a movie.

[01:38:44] You can get extra butter on your popcorn.

[01:38:47] Like he's such a sweetie pie.

[01:38:49] He's great.

[01:38:50] Just only the moron cats.

[01:38:51] Yeah.

[01:38:52] Just a minor, minor detail.

[01:38:56] No kitten poker or creepy.

[01:38:58] Ugh.

[01:38:59] And I do.

[01:39:00] I cannot wait until we get more into Giles' background

[01:39:07] and history as Ripper.

[01:39:09] I forgot that this was the first episode that we first kind of

[01:39:13] get that glimpse.

[01:39:14] I remembered it.

[01:39:15] And I love how later on we do get to see a picture of Anthony

[01:39:19] Stewart head in a band playing bass guitar.

[01:39:21] Yeah.

[01:39:22] And I'm like, and into those listeners that are listening

[01:39:28] Watchers was not the first thing that happens in Buffy

[01:39:32] only in Buffy but they had that in the TV show Highlander

[01:39:35] as well.

[01:39:36] So that was a big trope and it was the same kind of gimmick

[01:39:39] they watched over all the immortals and everything else

[01:39:42] but they also had their own cliches too like being a

[01:39:45] musician as well.

[01:39:47] And we do get to hear Anthony Stewart had played guitar

[01:39:50] later on as well.

[01:39:51] And sing.

[01:39:52] He's a good singer.

[01:39:53] That's true.

[01:39:54] She is good.

[01:39:55] The Talamasca in the Anne Rice books is another example.

[01:39:59] They're basically Watchers.

[01:40:01] Yeah.

[01:40:02] Yeah.

[01:40:03] Well actually I'm, I'll be covering interview with a

[01:40:07] vampire on the journal and cinema podcast the movie to

[01:40:10] go with our continuity for the coverage of the show.

[01:40:15] Oh awesome.

[01:40:16] With Lara and Danny.

[01:40:18] So Danny's leading the way.

[01:40:20] I'm just there to hang back and talk and have fun.

[01:40:23] That'll be fun.

[01:40:24] But we're going to cover the movie which actually talks

[01:40:26] about that as well.

[01:40:27] Yeah.

[01:40:28] Oh that's going to be so fun.

[01:40:29] Very fun.

[01:40:30] I can't wait.

[01:40:31] I'll definitely send in some feedback.

[01:40:34] I love the movie version of the book.

[01:40:38] It's interesting and the TV show version is completely

[01:40:42] rewritten for it but I like what they've done.

[01:40:45] Yeah.

[01:40:46] I haven't really watched the show.

[01:40:48] Maybe I'll give it another try but right now I'm

[01:40:50] sort of a little bit buried under.

[01:40:52] There's a lot of shows right now.

[01:40:54] And if the listeners are interested in more Anthony

[01:40:57] Stewart had a movie that you would not actually picture

[01:41:00] him in Ghost Rider 2.

[01:41:03] He plays a like a monk and it was like the first time

[01:41:08] I'd seen him in years after like Buffy was off the air

[01:41:11] and I'm like wait a minute that's Anthony Stewart

[01:41:13] that's Anthony had and it's amazing to see him

[01:41:15] but it's kind of him being the typical character

[01:41:18] that he plays like in Giles within that movie.

[01:41:21] Yeah.

[01:41:22] As well as protecting something at a monastery.

[01:41:24] He is so fun on Ted Lasso as a villain.

[01:41:27] Oh he's perfect as a villain.

[01:41:30] I really enjoy him on that show.

[01:41:32] It's too bad that we don't get to hear him and

[01:41:35] Hannah Waddingham sing together because he has a great

[01:41:40] voice and she has an amazing voice.

[01:41:42] That would be fun.

[01:41:43] Yeah.

[01:41:44] All right I think we should wrap this up.

[01:41:46] We've really gone on some tangents.

[01:41:48] That's what you did.

[01:41:50] That's all right.

[01:41:52] That's all in the fun.

[01:41:54] Stop it.

[01:41:55] Sorry my dogs are being assholes to my cat.

[01:41:57] I understand that problem.

[01:41:59] I don't have to yell at any ducks today.

[01:42:02] That's good.

[01:42:03] That's good.

[01:42:04] All right.

[01:42:05] That was fun last time.

[01:42:06] Yeah sorry.

[01:42:07] That's the complete end of our show everybody.

[01:42:09] Thank you so much for listening.

[01:42:11] Until next time, I'm Penny.

[01:42:13] I'm Mark.

[01:42:15] And I'm Kara.