34: “The Prom” (BTVS S3E20)

[00:00:00] We're not good friends. Most of us never found the time to get to know you, but that doesn't mean we haven't noticed you. We don't talk about it much, but it's no secret that Sunnydale High isn't really like other high schools. A lot of weird stuff happens here.

[00:00:23] Zombies! Hyena people! Snyder! But whenever there was a problem or something creepy happened, you seemed to show up and stop it. Most of the people here have been saved by you, or helped by you at one time or another.

[00:00:43] We're proud to say that the class of 99 has the lowest mortality rate of any graduating class in Sunnydale history. And we know at least part of that is because of you. So the senior class offers its thanks and gives you this. It's from all of us. And it

[00:01:19] has written here, Buffy Summers, Class Protector. Hello everybody, welcome to Still Slaying, a Buffy-verse podcast. I'm Penny. And I'm Cara. This episode we're going to be discussing Season 3, Episode 20, The Prom, directed by David Solomon and written by Marty Noxon. The original air date for this

[00:02:44] one was May 11th of 1999. There were some alternative titles in other languages for this episode, and that included The Ball in Italian and The Hellhounds in French. Very straightforward. Very straightforward. Oh man. So let's go back into 1999 and see what was happening.

[00:03:16] May of 1999, such a good time. The number one song, still going strong is Living La Vida Loka by Ricky Martin here in the U.S., and the number one song in

[00:03:27] the UK is Now I Wanted That Way by the Backstreet Boys. I listened to that song over and over and over again. I remember when it was on TRL, like going and making sure it was still the number one music video every day. That's adorable. Good times.

[00:03:48] I didn't discover that song. I was in law school, and so I was sort of, I don't know, distracted a lot. I didn't really find out about that song until the end of my third

[00:03:59] year of law school they had like a Follies review show, they called it the Law Review, R-E-V-U-E, where they do a list skits and songs and stuff. They did a version of I

[00:04:11] Wanted That Way, but it was I Wanted Get Paid, and it was a song about how people a lot of times go to law school and they're like, oh I'm only going to take a corporate

[00:04:23] job until I pay off my loans and then I'll do some pro bono, something public service. It was very, very funny. And I was like, that song is catchy. And people were like, have you not heard of the Backstreet Boys?

[00:04:36] That's so funny. I feel like I was the perfect age group, like fifth grade going into sixth grade. That was just right there. Oh gosh, that album too. Anyway, this is not a Backstreet Boys podcast. At the time, the

[00:04:56] best selling books were We'll Meet Again by Mary Higgins-Clark for fiction and once again with a comeback The Greatest Generation by Tom Broca is back at number one in nonfiction. I think he's there for a little bit longer off and on too for a while.

[00:05:15] That book is, I think the people in that generation were so excited to be called The Greatest Generation that every single one of them bought it. Went out and bought it. And then if they didn't buy it any birthday or holiday kids. Somebody gave it to them.

[00:05:30] Oh yep, this will be great. Yeah, okay this is dark but maybe off color but also a lot of them were of an age where maybe they didn't remember, they already bought it and went and bought it again. It's very possible.

[00:05:47] Oh gosh, I like having multiple copies of books. That's just practical because sometimes I want to write in books and I'm not going to write my only copy. That's not happening. I will. I'm a rebel.

[00:06:03] I bet our bookshelves are so different in terms of like how we bookmark books I would be willing to guess in the writing. That could be fun. Anyway, oh gosh we're off to a great start. I had too much coffee today.

[00:06:18] The Mummy is of course number one in the US box office after premiering the week before. I love that movie. I still love that movie. Number two is The Matrix. Three is Saving Private Ryan and four is Prince of Egypt.

[00:06:35] Wow, I can't believe how long Prince of Egypt was at the top of the list. I don't remember that at all. It must have been a really bad year. There must have been just garbage after number four. Yeah, actually, I meant to look it up last time.

[00:06:55] I guess Patch Adams was still on there. Oh God. Everyone expected that movie to be great because of Robin Williams but it was just awful. I don't remember that. I was during the week of May 9th of 99,000th March in angry demonstration against the bombing

[00:07:15] of the Belgrade Embassy that occurred on May 7th. Mobs hurled objects at the US Embassy in Beijing where Ambassador James Sasser is trapped for more than 48 hours. Chinese government supports the protests. I read the newspaper cover to cover every day era.

[00:07:35] There were a couple of New York Times articles that popped up when I was looking for it. I went down a rabbit hole. I don't remember that but I also don't know if I was paying attention to world news at

[00:07:49] the end of fifth grade unless it was something really big. I do remember this. On May 10th, 1999, Shell's server steen American writer, poet, cartoonist, singer, songwriter, musician and playwright dies at the age of 68. And some of Silverstein's most notable works as a beloved children's author include

[00:08:10] The Giving Tree where the sidewalk ends and A Light in the Attic. I'm assuming most people over the age of 30 are at least somewhat familiar with those three works. I remember checking out where the sidewalk ends repeatedly from the library in elementary school.

[00:08:30] Somebody gave me where the sidewalk ends and A Light in the Attic for Christmas or my birthday one year. So I had them and they were hardcover and they matched. And there was something about having that on my bookshelf. I loved them. They were shiny and pretty.

[00:08:50] It's interesting to read some of those poems as an adult. There is some serious darkness in Shell's Silverstein. I think that's why I liked it so much. Honestly, like... It was interesting to think about as a kid.

[00:09:06] And the illustrations that went along with the poems in particular were always very striking. I remember really wanting to tear pages out and keep some of them just because of the illustrations on them.

[00:09:29] Little-known fact Shell Silverstein wrote one of Johnny Cash's most well-known songs, which is a boy named Soot. Such a good song. It's so hard to sing. Have you ever tried to sing it? It's sort of arhythmic and it's got a strange rhyme scheme.

[00:09:50] It's on my driving playlist as is most of Johnny Cash. But for whatever reason, that song really is one of the hardest ones to memorize. But it's so good. All I wanted in life was to get a mini-dawky who is a boy named Soot.

[00:10:07] Ever since I was in middle school, I was like, this is what I want. This would be perfect. Someday, someday, I will have... If you get a mini-dawky and add it to your menagerie, I will laugh so much.

[00:10:21] I'll need to live somewhere else in order to do that. Come visit you so I can pet you. Although out in the county around here, there are plenty of people that have mini-dawkeys. One of the girls that works in our office, they have multiple horses. Mini-dawkeys, goats, ducks.

[00:10:38] And she'll live like 10 minutes outside of the city. Yeah, if you have a little bit of land and something like a barn, why not? On May 12, 1999, Sir David Steele becomes the first speaker of the modern Scottish parliament. Shmancy. And then on May 13, 1999, Carlo Azaglio? Yeah, I'd say Azaglio.

[00:11:09] Chiampi or Chiampi? Chiampi. I don't remember enough Italian from my Italian class to be able to pronounce that correctly. But he has elected the 10th president of Italy. And this is kind of interesting.

[00:11:28] On May 15, 1999, Russian parliament fails to impeach President Yeltsin on five charges, including one that he waged an illegal war against Chechnya in 95 and 96. Yeltsin remains the object of attacks by both friends and enemies.

[00:11:47] That'll be, that's something that's going to keep coming up back in the news for sure. Yeah. Let's get into it with the main discussion of the episode.

[00:11:58] And, you know, last week we were a little disparaging about this episode saying that it's, you know, it's a little light, not that much happens. And it's true. But there's one incredibly important plot point that happens and the show kind of slows down to focus on it.

[00:12:17] And we get a somewhat lighter monster of the week episode. It's, you know, he's a little silly this villain and, oh yeah.

[00:12:27] And Buffy, you know, defeats him pretty, pretty handily. So it gives the show a little breathing room before we get into what's going to be the, you know, heaviness of the finale. And also it allows us to sort of really feel Buffy's breakup with Angel.

[00:12:46] Buffy in this episode feels more like a teenager than she has in a very long time. Oh, I agree. And you know, I think that is of course pretty intentional. But I, I guess I had forgotten since the last time I rewatched this one.

[00:13:05] But when Angel picks up her notebook and turns it over and sees her doodles where it says like Buffy and Angel forever. And all of that, I was like, oh, this, it has never been more painfully obvious the age difference and the lifetime experience difference between these two.

[00:13:31] Like, because no matter how you slice it, she is still a teenage girl. Yeah. And I just, I thought that was a very nice touch, slightly heavy handed maybe, but it hammers home the fact like look Buffy is graduating from high school.

[00:13:47] She's still someone who is daydreaming about her boyfriend and getting married and staying with him forever. And unfortunately Angel has been around for a very long time and understands the ramifications of staying with her. Yeah.

[00:14:07] And you know, he got a real push from the mayor that he could not ignore because he instantly recognized it as accurate. You know, the mayor may be evil, but he's not dumb. And then, you know, Joyce's visit to Angel. First of all, classic Joyce.

[00:14:31] Oh, what a nice place you have like yes, my gray dungeon of very little protection from the sun. The opening scene where they're like wake up and Buffy just has to like barely move one curtain and sunlight falls directly on Angel's face.

[00:14:50] I'm like, you've been a vampire for over 200 years. You don't know not to have, not to lie down facing the rising sun. His bed. Like why is his bed facing the window? Why is the bed near the eastern side of the house?

[00:15:07] Like the sun comes directly in your face? Like oh my God. Anyway. That was one of my very first notes on my in my notes at and all in my notes app in all caps. It just says why is Angel's bed facing the window?

[00:15:23] Yeah, so dumb and just the one little curtain like so it could be blown away like just oh it's so easy for him to just go up in flames. All right.

[00:15:35] So yeah, Joyce shows up and they have a little heart to heart and I love this moment as a Joyce moment when she is she loves Buffy so much and she sees her in a way no one else does because Joyce does not have an agenda about Buffy being the slayer and getting and she doesn't need to be redeemed by her and she you know she's just

[00:16:03] wants what's best for Buffy and and she had this very calm very rational adult conversation with Angel, which like you said just further underlines the age difference between Angel and Buffy that Angel and Joyce seem more like peers than Angel and Buffy and

[00:16:19] and I have Joyce's the end of Joyce's speech here and I just thought it was so articulate and moving. I just hope you care enough. An Angel very quickly sort of agrees with Joyce he's like yeah I know. Yeah, I've been thinking about it too.

[00:17:05] I think yeah and we've seen that they do a good job, especially in the last couple of episodes kind of sprinkling that in.

[00:17:14] I know before I've seen you know different Buffy fans kind of lament thinking this is a 180 for his character and I don't see that at all. Their relationship has had periods of him being like you should not be with me.

[00:17:34] I'm not right for you and other people being like Angel's a lot older than you right and a vampire and a slayer like it doesn't come out of nowhere at all, I think.

[00:17:47] Well and what's weird to me is even Buffy and I have different ways to rectify it in my own mind but after you know lovers walk earlier in the season when Spike kind of reads Buffy and Angel to a T,

[00:18:06] Buffy seems to you know they think about it she realizes she loves Angel and she seems to step like set aside the concerns and the practical implications of them being together so she seems to see it as I don't know being worth it.

[00:18:27] Part of it is Buffy's fatalism that she fights against all the time right. She brings it up but she's constantly struggling with this feeling of I'm probably going to die young and so when she looks at her relationship with Angel she's only looking ahead a year or two.

[00:18:49] And in her mind she's like why isn't this perfect I don't get I don't see it because she has no ability to think about herself being 30 40 50 years old much because when she does think about that she immediately has to go to I'll probably be dead before that.

[00:19:06] I think she shies away from thinking about the future for you know self defensive reasons.

[00:19:12] It's just it's so cringy when she brings up Angel going to the prom and she's like lots of girls have older boyfriends is like how old Buffy how because it's weird enough bringing like a 20 year old to your prom but it's just I don't know.

[00:19:32] And I know that my perspective is obviously very different watching now when I'm 36. 36 is that right. That's right. Yeah, that's a good sign. I keep forgetting how old I am but at 36 as opposed to watching it at 11 and then watching it in college.

[00:19:56] I remember being kind of frustrated with Joyce. Yeah, and thinking like, you know just let Buffy be happy she's in love.

[00:20:07] She's still going to college like it'll be fine and understanding to a certain extent where Joyce was coming from but still very much so being kind of on Buffy's side of things. I wonder if either Angel or Joyce ever told Buffy that that conversation took place. I know.

[00:20:29] I can't imagine they did, especially not Angel at the after the way things you know, develop from here. But with Joyce, I she 100% made the right decision.

[00:20:47] I like what you said about how she, you know, she doesn't really have a dog in the fight when it comes to Buffy. She only sees Buffy as her daughter wanting what's best for her. She's not, you know, sexually attracted to her like Sander.

[00:21:03] She has nothing to gain in terms of, you know, like meddling in her relationship with Angel. She doesn't have any, you know, ties with the Watchers Council. She's pretty separated from that world and hearing her talk to Angel this time around watching it.

[00:21:26] I was like, well, of course she's right. She's 100% right. And I would really question Angel if he pushed back at this point. Yeah, because he knows he knows that he's not good for her. And I don't know.

[00:21:44] You could see it in the last episode when Buffy was talking about like being close to his place and having a drawer that in his head he was like, I know I have to break it off. When and how and what do I say?

[00:22:04] And how do I like, I don't even know where to start. Like it's going to hurt her is the best to do it right away. Should I do it fat?

[00:22:13] Like there's so many things his brain is working and you can kind of see it where he's like, I gotta figure out how to do this.

[00:22:20] So Joyce coming by the mansion and having that conversation with him, I think is the thing that makes him decide to do it right away. Yeah.

[00:22:36] Although Buffy presses the issue because this is also true. Once you've decided you want to break up with someone and I've been in a situation where I'm like, oh wait till after his birthday, like that's nice. Yeah.

[00:22:47] But then they can tell right if the other person is at all aware of their surroundings they're like something's up with you why are you acting weird. Yeah. So he might as well just do it right away. Like it's it's only going to make everything harder.

[00:23:04] I mean, breaking up with her right before the prom like from his perspective like she said he doesn't know what promise but also. Yeah. Earlier was better than her being like how long have you been planning this and why didn't you tell me like it. Seriously.

[00:23:20] It's better to just rip the bandaid off as much as that sucks. Well, Angel ain't Angel. Geez. It's been a long day. Angel cannot hide anything on his face. Oh, that's true. You know, I'm mopey.

[00:23:34] I'm more mopey with Buffy and I do like it also felt very true to this whole teenage experience when Willow kind of calls him out for that to Buffy like he broke up with you right before prom like boo him like that's messed up which is of course 100% an appropriate teenage response to that situation.

[00:23:56] Yeah. It's it'd be so inauthentic to go with her and she's building this event up romanticizing it and knowing what he knows.

[00:24:09] And I just I don't think he'd be capable of deceiving her in that way because it would be a deception to a certain extent if he did not, you know, let her know beforehand what he was thinking. But I will say one.

[00:24:25] One part about Joyce coming in to Angel's place that I don't think I clocked when I was 11 was I really want to know what Joyce thought when she saw those manacles on the wall. Oh yeah, she definitely she knows is she's like manacles.

[00:24:46] I wonder if any part of her work like other like daughter because I enjoy playing with handcuffs during bandcandy. Oh gosh. But that that part when I saw that I was like, I don't think I noticed that before.

[00:25:04] Can you imagine that with your own kid being like visiting their boyfriend's house and there's like my god sex toys or something like hanging off the wall. It would just be. Especially on the wall like I mean in the living room right there.

[00:25:19] It's not like she went and opened his bedside drawer or something like that of his nightstand like that would be different but right out and open.

[00:25:28] And I mean she doesn't know that he used it to like, but Buffy actually put those there to tie Angel up originally because he was feral.

[00:25:37] You know, all Joyce knows is like, and my daughter has a whole world that I don't have a place in right like every I don't even know what that is. But I know that it's foreign and I don't really like it for her. And I'm stuck with it.

[00:25:55] I continue to love Joyce and appreciate how hard she is trying to navigate this very strange and unprecedented thing of being the mother of the Slayer.

[00:26:07] Right it's not like she has a support group she can't like talk to other parents like, I just don't know what to do when I when my daughter is risking her life every night like she can't she can't talk to anyone about it except maybe Giles and for good reasons they don't

[00:26:22] hang out a lot. She doesn't have a buddy. Isolated. Yeah, like in similar in a somewhat similar way to Buffy. But you said nobody else knows what she's going through.

[00:26:35] She can't even go to a therapist and I guess the equivalent would be pretend there's a cop or something and out on the streets every night but she can't really she can't really talk about that. But I don't know.

[00:26:51] Yeah, I like the respect that angel has for Joyce. Immediately he recognizes that you know she's right because he's already been thinking that but I enjoy seeing Joyce interact with Buffy's love interests. Yeah, present and future. Because it's just it's always an interesting and her friends too.

[00:27:18] Like, whenever Joyce is in the mix it just adds such a lovely element and. And I think, you know, we know that willow doesn't have much of relationship with her mother.

[00:27:30] Xander doesn't have a much of a relationship with his mother like on yet doesn't have parents when she becomes a character courti we never meet her parents like yeah, all of the Scoobies have like this reaction when they're around Joyce of like, oh, yeah.

[00:27:48] Like the mom energy. She's got like, like the mom vibe and the. Oh, and I mean, I'm a I'm 52. And sometimes I meet an older woman who has that vibe with me and like, sometimes it makes me cry. Yeah.

[00:28:08] Oh my God, like, yeah, love you can feel it and it's a very specific kind of vibe. Nice. I know I don't give it off. I know that what I give off is big sister vibe people my entire life. You really seem like a big sister.

[00:28:23] Okay, I can see it. But at the same time I think those are similar.

[00:28:29] I don't think anyone's I think big sister vibes are fairly maternal because yeah but not exactly like your big sister will you know give you tampons when your mom is like no you're not ready for that yet right like

[00:28:44] your your big sister is going to introduce you to music that your parents might not think is appropriate like your big sister is going to maybe it's because of who I had as a mother that clouds my.

[00:28:58] Oh yeah mature because my mom was I was I'm very I recognize I'm very fortunate with the parents that I have and both of my parents had some you know, difficult childhoods.

[00:29:14] To varying degrees with a parent in their households and they both kind of did the work and we're like I don't want my children to have to deal with what I dealt with and they both went into it wanting having kids but they went into having kids wanting to do things

[00:29:33] right and I you know my mom was very open with me and almost big sisterly in the way that I hear people describe it but at the same time she was definitely my mom like there was no blurred line between yeah friend and mom but

[00:29:53] I don't know maybe that now I'm having a little bit of a revelation it's almost like a therapy session was like huh maybe my perception of what's maternal is slightly skewed from a lot of people.

[00:30:08] I mean not skewed in a bad way no because it seems like the way that your mother chose to mother you was good for you.

[00:30:18] Yeah, so you know kudos and not every parent is going to like there's no one right way to parents right I think that the right way to parent is incredibly dependent on the specifics of who you are as a person and who your kid is as a person.

[00:30:34] Yeah, and you can't like if you're not a person who loves to like make everything from scratch and do a bunch of crafts and be Martha Stewart.

[00:30:42] Yeah, you can't force yourself to be that person for your kid like you can't be like a real mother only ever cooks from scratch and then like force yourself to do that all the time because your kid is going to know you hate it.

[00:30:53] And they're going to be like mom hates feeding me like it's going to give them issues. Yeah, so you have to parent like your own way so your mom found the way she it sounds like she just took out bad stuff and then parented as herself pretty much.

[00:31:08] And she was a she was a nurse to and she was a she worked with a pediatrician. So I think a big part she had to have difficult conversations with children and parents all the time at work.

[00:31:20] And she saw how to do it. Yeah, and she saw firsthand like how honesty really was. You know if you could cultivate that it was incredibly helpful.

[00:31:32] And I was never scared to tell my parents when I messed up or if I was questioning something or, you know wanting to try something. It was just, you know, it was a nice it was a nice situation and I can see Joyce.

[00:31:49] Like I see a lot of my mom in Joyce Joyce feels more quote unquote like maternal in terms of stereotypical energy. But I recognize a lot of that with Joyce and Buffy's incredibly lucky that Joyce is around especially because Hank's like dropped off the face of the earth.

[00:32:10] Yeah, screw him. But I think he sucks. An angel obviously senses that too that Joyce is not coming from a place of judgment. She wants what's best for Buffy and she has you know she has to have some faith that angel truly also wants what's best for Buffy.

[00:32:32] Yeah, and it's a really beautiful conversation and a moment between these two people that have this one really huge thing in common that they both love Buffy.

[00:32:42] And I think it was very clear that Joyce had thought very carefully about what she was going to say and how she was going to say it. And she was really pleased that angel was ready to hear it.

[00:32:59] Like the look on her face when he was like yeah I've been thinking about it too was like okay all right good. Oh good. I can I can I can leave this with you I think I know what you're going to do with it and and he did.

[00:33:11] I think his choice to leave town. Obviously it's partially because he gets his own show, but it's also the smartest possible thing because when she says how am I supposed to stay away from you my heart breaks because I know that feeling where you're like,

[00:33:26] I just want to see him like the temptation and him being like I'm going to leave town is like, yeah, it's, it's got to be a relief for her once she comes down enough to understand it to know that she won't have to like bump into him at the butcher or like see him on mainstream

[00:33:42] like. Yeah, and social media is not a thing yet. So she can't. I can't imagine. I don't think he would ever like, you know, signing up Ram.

[00:33:56] I don't, I don't think he would be able to understand how to operate a smartphone like if anything I feel like Angel could maybe get on Twitter just to get little tidbits of information here and there, or like the New York Times games.

[00:34:15] Oh, yeah I can see him being a real, you know, crossword. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm such a nerd after I do my word all I have to do quarter and then I do turtle. Yes, me too. I did not know you did that.

[00:34:30] Oh my gosh. That and connections but connections makes me want to break things routinely. Sometimes I'm just like I got it. Sometimes the connection is like, they're all words that start with the letter B or something and I'm like, yeah, dumb connection.

[00:34:50] This is all right. But yeah, one thing I'm going to try to keep the Twilight references to a minimum. But in this episode, I kind of can't help it.

[00:35:01] And there's a huge prom thing that is it prom or like spring fling or whatever they call it in Twilight. I think it's prom. They go to prom. But that's not like the catalyst in Edward, you know, realizing vampire human bad.

[00:35:20] But it's similar in this episode when Buffy, you know, and Sarah Michelle Geller makes the most heartbreaking faces when she's upset when Angel's breaking up with her.

[00:35:32] And you can see that he's kind of realizing he he's going to have to be very direct and kind of put his foot down. And finally when she says, you don't want to be with me and the music kicks in. And it's just so sad. I have it.

[00:35:50] Oh, here we go. I know how much I love you. You killed me to say this. Then don't. Who are you to tell me what's right for me? You think I haven't thought about this? As you rationally.

[00:36:04] No, no, of course not. I'm just some swoony little schoolgirl, right? I'm trying to do what's right here. Okay, I'm trying to think with my head instead of my heart. Heart? You have a heart? It isn't even beating. Okay, Buffy. Don't. Don't want. Don't love you.

[00:36:24] I'm sorry, you know what? I didn't know that I got a choice in that. I'm never going to change. I can't change. I want my life to be with you. That is so painful.

[00:36:46] The first several times I watched that I interpreted his I don't as I'm going to lie to her and tell her I don't want to be with her so that she'll accept the breakup. And now I interpreted it as he doesn't want her life to be with him.

[00:37:03] Yeah, like, it's not that he doesn't want to be with her. He doesn't want for her to be with him. That's what reminds me of Twilight. Yeah, I see where you're going with us. Because the second Twilight movie.

[00:37:15] Yes, because and I think anybody who hasn't read Twilight or hates Twilight, I'm sorry, but it's just, I don't know. Like Twilight has a lot of flaws, but there are just some unfortunate parallels with Buffy and well and Twilight came out vampire after Buffy.

[00:37:35] Yeah, I think I was in college. There's some there's some serious borrowing. Oh, yeah. Buffy.

[00:37:44] It's like, you know, the idea that this older man this older vampire with much more life experience, not wanting, you know, a young woman to be kind of shackled to them and to be able to experience life and to be able to have children if she wants to

[00:38:05] and have someone that she's growing old with, not someone that just kind of stays stagnant with her.

[00:38:13] And I 100% agree that I think that is where Angel is coming from he is saying like I don't want you to want your time to be spent with me like he doesn't want that for her he wants more for her and he loves her enough that he's willing to kind of break ties and

[00:38:33] let her go. But she of course, you know, she's not going to see it that way in the moment and every time Sarah Michelle Gellar is just so good with the intonation in her voice when

[00:38:50] she says, but like, you know, I want my life to be with you it comes out almost as like a plea and a question.

[00:38:59] And as soon as he says I don't every single time I'm just like, oh, that that one hurts. Yeah, because you know they love each other it's just it's doomed kind of.

[00:39:13] Yeah, it's funny. One of the things I always say that I love about Buffy as a role model as a character is that she is flawed. And one of her flaws is that when somebody insults her she goes low.

[00:39:32] Oh, like you have a heart it's not even feeding. I was like, oh, that is mean. And, you know, like uncalled for it's not like he doesn't know that I get it like she's so hurt in that moment and she just lashes out verbally.

[00:39:50] And we'll see this again in other situations in the future with her. She doesn't stay in that place but that's her immediate reaction is to fight back and it's partially her slayer persona right which is like, you get attacked you have to attack back, whether

[00:40:08] whether that's emotional or physical. But there are times when when I, you know during scenes like that where I'm like, oh, like that was just you lost the high ground girl like yeah, which also, you know, there are plenty of not to say

[00:40:27] potentially to show her being a teenager being less mature because there are plenty of adults who have that trait. Plenty of people that that's just the first instinct, but Angel handles it so well.

[00:40:43] He's super human. He's super human. He does that really flinch and we know that he's in pain, but I also think he's so resolved in his decision and confident that, you know, it's the right choice that he's able to be, you know, his same stoic self.

[00:41:05] But I would love to get kind of an angel perspective like an episode from his perspective, perspective specifically with this one with a little internal narration.

[00:41:18] And to see how he acts, you know before and after having this conversation like when he's by himself. Yes, and it would be really interesting.

[00:41:26] What leads him to, you know, getting dressed up and surprising her at prom? Because I'm sure that was not necessarily an easy decision either.

[00:41:37] No, and he had to wrestle with whether or not it's right and it's it's when she when they run into each other on the street and she says,

[00:41:46] It's fine. I I've given up on that whole Buffy gets one perfect high school moment thing, I think is when he's like, Oh, I can actually give her that and that would be kind.

[00:41:57] And she'll know that it doesn't mean we're back together but yeah, you know, it's it's a really beautiful moment and I love we're sort of skipping ahead but I love when he shows up at at prom that we get to see Giles as a reaction

[00:42:13] to the first. Yes, where he's like, Oh, look what he did like I'm so glad Buffy's going to get this like he's so and he just quietly like turns her and takes the little umbrella thing and yes, sweet moment.

[00:42:28] Giles is fantastic in this episode. Yeah. It's like if I didn't already love him so much, this would have sealed the deal.

[00:42:41] Let's talk about this scene. Women would wish horrible things on their ex boyfriend. You'd show up and make it happen. That's right. Power of the wish, manier, righteous sword smite the unfaithful.

[00:42:52] Well, hey, good luck with that. Hope works out for you. I know you can laugh but I have witnessed a millennium of treachery and oppression from the males of the species and I have nothing but contempt for the whole the bitterness lot of them.

[00:43:04] And why are you talking to me? Well, gosh, I wonder why not. You couldn't possibly have anything to do with your sales pitch. I love that. I love her tone of voice when she's like, I don't know the day for the prom. She's been dragged out of her.

[00:43:28] Oh, yeah. Anya is one of my favorite characters in the show like in this series because well obviously Emma Caulfield is brilliant.

[00:43:39] Her comedic timing is insane and the way she delivers her lines, she nails it every single time and she and Nicholas Brunnen do have some really nice chemistry.

[00:43:55] They play off of each other very well. And I 100% believe that she is a vengeance demon trapped in a teenage girls body. Like I have no problem going along with her on that journey.

[00:44:10] It's funny because before this, I only knew her from 90210 when she played an uptight type A editor of the school newspaper and Brandon's love interest. And when she showed up on Buffy I was like this chick and then she very quickly just won me over with...

[00:44:37] The first thing we see with her is she gets revealed to have been the demon and she grants the wish. That's great. But then the episode, the doppelganger land with Eva Willow and she's so funny in that. Trying to get a beer. Yeah. She's so great.

[00:44:56] That's when you knew she was going to be a fantastic addition to this show. And I absolutely love the... Men are evil. We go with me. It's just so good. And what does she say? I can't decide honestly how I feel about the lines of...

[00:45:17] She's like, look I know you find me attractive. I've seen you looking at my breasts and Xander says nothing personal but when a guy does that it just means his eyes are open. I mean yes. Okay. Yes, that's true.

[00:45:31] But with Xander part of me I also think it's kind of cute that he started off with nothing personal. Like he is still... He's trying not to offend her or insult her. And he's a teenage guy.

[00:45:46] And he's like good luck with that and he works out for you. Yeah. I mean he's friendly and silly about it. And I love that Anja took a look at the men of Sunnydale High. Right? And she was like, well at least this one knows what's up. Yeah.

[00:46:06] Like he cheated on Cordelia and he's the whole reason I'm here. But he doesn't seem like he's asleep going through life, going through the motions. He's part of the bigger picture. Yeah. And she's very pretty. She probably could have gotten almost any guy she wanted at Sunnydale. True.

[00:46:27] And she picks Xander because she can actually connect with him in some way. Yeah. Of course at the actual prom is hilarious where she's just talking the ear off and then they run into Cordy and Wesley and he's like how are you both? And details please. Yep.

[00:46:41] And who hasn't been on a date like that where you're like well this person never shut up. Oh yeah. This episode has all these little moments and nuggets and stuff. And one of my favorites is the conversation right after Anja asks Xander to the prom.

[00:46:56] Well at least we all have someone to go with now. Some of us are going with demons but I think that's a valid lifestyle choice. More importantly, I have the kick dress. I love that. Valid lifestyle choice.

[00:47:10] And I was like, and I was like you know how Buffy's going with a demon? Willow's going with a. A werewolf demon. Yep. And Xander's going with the demon. I'm like kind of all of you are going with demons. Like. Like interesting. That's pretty funny.

[00:47:25] Life on the hill mouth. I also love Giles reaction to Wesley spotting Cordelia walking in to the prom. He could not roll his eyes harder. And it's true. Perfect. And he's just like you know and of course Wesley comes up to a bit sub point and is asking

[00:47:56] to get his opinion and he is acting kind of very professional. And the last thing I want to do is model bad behavior in front of impressionable youth and he talks about asking Cordelia to dance and Giles is just so freaking exasperated. He's like for God's sakes man.

[00:48:18] She's 18. What does he tell him you have the emotional maturity of like a blueberry scone or something? Yeah, something like that. And he's like just have at it and stop fluttering about it. And I was like that's what it is. He just like just do it.

[00:48:35] Leave me alone. I'm still unclear on what the story is that lets Wesley hang around a high school all day. I know he's chef. I don't think he's a librarian prom. Like do they think he's Giles special assistant or boyfriend or something? Special friend.

[00:48:52] Yeah, there's no explanation as to why this man and Giles didn't know he was going to be chef roti the prom. He's like what okay. He just shows up. I don't like Cordy's dress. I don't really either.

[00:49:09] First of all, I thought she looked dangerously skinny in these last few episodes and that dress with the way it's cut in the front just shows her like collar bones and rib bones in a way that makes me like worried for Charisma Carpenter.

[00:49:27] Well, and it's just set because Charisma is gorgeous. Like she is still stunning to this day, but I was struck too with the way that the dress clings to her. It's just a little on the side of thin and we know it was a stressful environment for her,

[00:49:47] but I'm sure that didn't help. But yeah, I thought it was kind of cheap looking like slutty. Yeah, and I liked her homecoming look better. Like if you look at how she looks really like strong and healthy in that was I think it's

[00:50:08] like a green kind of body. She wears green and she wears orange. That's right. Yeah, and it's a more sort of standard like high school girl like dance dress. It's you know, it's like fitted and it's got a poof and whatever. Yeah, satin.

[00:50:23] This this looked like high end hooker to me and and she had no jewelry or anything that it just there was something about it that didn't feel to me like how Cordelia would show up at prom.

[00:50:37] But I think it may have been a choice because of what we find out about her dad and how you know, she doesn't really have much anymore that she's not going to be, you

[00:50:51] know, wearing a ton of jewelry or have like a great bag or a flashy bag to go with her. So I feel like that that could have been the choice. And I'm fairly like I lean towards minimalistic style.

[00:51:07] And so to me, I was just like such a classy look like there's no jewelry. But I guess I felt like it was just a smidge to minimalist.

[00:51:20] Yeah, some earrings would have helped or if her hair didn't look like it was like just thrown up like if it had had. That's true. But I also think that was intentional like she she's having a really rough time.

[00:51:37] She's like not you know going for what I would assume were routine blowouts at the salon and you know, getting the same sort of treatments. I'm sure she was used to before and I will say for as much shit as we talk about Xander.

[00:51:55] I this episode is one of the ones that really kind of starts to endear me to him a little bit more. Yeah, he gets a lot of points because very quietly and quietly in full way. Yes. Trying to make amends to Cordelia just he just does like it.

[00:52:14] He sees something he can do and he does it without any fanfare. It's very sweet. He doesn't he clearly doesn't do it for any sort of credit. He doesn't tell anybody else that he's doing it. He doesn't even really bring it up to Cordelia.

[00:52:32] He doesn't try to get any points for it. Nothing. He is doing it to be kind. Which part of you two was like it's about damn time. You're the one that cheated on her and kind of broke her heart.

[00:52:46] But I think it's a sign of growth from him and it's it's nice to see the speech that she gives him.

[00:52:55] I think really opens his eyes because I think he had been existing in this place where, you know, I screwed up and Cordelia dumped me and then she's been mean to me ever since and she has ever

[00:53:07] and she has everything and I have nothing and she's lucky and I'm unlucky and she's rich and I'm poor. And it was it was almost the first time he saw her as a real person. Yes.

[00:53:19] Like, I don't think the whole time they were dating he connected with her as much as he did in that moment when she just laid it out there for him. I of course I haven't. You work here? Yes. Yes, I work here. But why?

[00:53:42] I'm trying to buy a dress. But don't you already have all the dresses? I have nothing, okay? No dresses, no cell phone, no car. Everything has been taken away because daddy made a little mistake on his taxes for the last 12 years. Satisfied? Are you a happy Zander now?

[00:54:04] I'm broke. I can't go to any of the colleges that accepted me and I can't stay home because we no longer have one. Uh, wow. Yeah, Nito, now you can run along and tell all of your friends how Cordy finally got hers.

[00:54:22] How she has to work part-time just to get a lousy prom dress on layaway. And how she has to wear a name tag. Oh, I'm a name tag person. Don't leave that out. The story just wouldn't have the same punch. Hellhound attack.

[00:54:41] Which is the perfect way to end any awkward conversation in Sunnydale. It's just like a demon attack will just end that right there. Gosh, those hellhounds. I can't, like obviously they are not the important part of this episode.

[00:54:55] They have to have some sort of monster of the week type element. But I will say, I love the flashback that we get of Tucker's motivation for wanting to ruin the prom.

[00:55:10] That build up where you think it's like they must have been terrible to this guy and he asked the girl out and she's like, do you want to go to prom with me? And she's like, no, that's it.

[00:55:21] In my memory when that scene was coming up, I remembered it being a montage of lots of rejections. I think because I was trying to justify why he would be. Make logical sense of it. Become a villain. But no, it's one girl who just says no.

[00:55:40] She's not even mean about it. She's just like, no. No, but it's funny, but it's also not funny. Because of the... Yeah, like the real life implications. And we were talking about this the other day with Sam and Jim.

[00:55:56] Yeah, where it like the dangers of rejecting a man are kind of significant for women and obviously not all men behave that way. Clearly. Generally, it's not hellhounds you have to worry about. No.

[00:56:14] But it is a guy with a gun or even just a guy who's going to like make you uncomfortable and like come to your workplace and watch you.

[00:56:23] That are just the amount of times where if somebody asked to buy you a drink or if somebody asked you out or if you've gone on a first date and you decline a second date, then all of a sudden it's like, well, you're a fat bitch.

[00:56:37] I didn't like you anyway. Or something, you know, like the immediate belittling your 10. Your lucky I even paid attention to you. Like the hostility is intense. It's like, okay.

[00:56:48] And if they don't even hit on you, there's no hit on rejection, but like you're clearly not there for that. Yeah. Like the number of times that... I just want to talk to my friends. I don't want to drink.

[00:57:01] Angrily said something about me being a, I'm sorry to use this word, dyke. When I'm just out with my girlfriends hanging out and we're just talking to each other and somebody in the group sort of is like, and the guys just get so angry.

[00:57:17] Like what do you mean? You're not here waiting for me. Yeah. Like to talk to you and you could have me instead of being with your friends. Like yeah, I could, but I don't... Like that's like, you're not that great. I don't know. It's just...

[00:57:30] It's another one of those unfortunate things that I think is a universal experience among women. Everyone probably has at least one example of a guy getting hostile to some extent because he perceived rejection in a way.

[00:57:46] And I forgot to, like I completely forgot about this episode and that one flashback being his motivation. I lost it when I... And when Bucky's like whatever. Yeah. She's like come on man. I'm not worthy of my time, you loser. It's so good.

[00:58:07] Especially when you see like all of the other men in this episode, like you see Giles in this episode has some excellent moments. Sander has some really nice moments. Oz is always Oz. And even, you know, Jonathan and it makes me so sad to think about, you know,

[00:58:28] I understand why they postponed the earshot episode that is technically episode 18 of this season, but having the realization that people watching this for the first time when it aired had not seen Buffy save Jonathan and... I remember being like, why is Jonathan giving her the award?

[00:58:47] And he looks at her. It's like there's this very meaningful exchange. And you can tell that his speech is kind of coming from the heart and watching it right after having watched earshot.

[00:59:00] I, well, I also had a really crappy few days, but I could not stop crying for a few minutes. I was like, oh, this is so sweet. Like she's getting this recognition and Jonathan's there because of her. It was just a very, very nice moment.

[00:59:19] And it's just so much sweeter with the... sweeter with that context of that episode. I just, I freaking love Jonathan, honestly.

[00:59:29] Like he has his moments, but I love him and you know, I don't think we've made it a secret that he's present still a bit more in the show. But the class protector speech and award is probably up there in my favorite moments of the entire series.

[00:59:49] Because we see again, Buffy kind of sacrificing her normalcy and her normal high school experience and fun at the prom to go take care of this issue.

[01:00:01] And she shows up late and it's just not at all, you know, what she imagined, I'm sure, especially after having been broke up with and broken up with. But it's so nice to see her get this recognition. And it's... She never tried to get.

[01:00:21] No, it's completely out of nowhere. It's just, it's so well deserved, honestly. And it's perfect, like we said for Jonathan to be doing this. And it's a great moment that's very sincere and moving. But of course in true Buffy fashion there's like levity as well.

[01:00:42] Where he says, you know, it's not a secret Sunnydale High isn't really like other high schools. A lot of weird stuff happens here and you've got people shouting out zombies, hyena people. And I love the Snyder, which is perfect.

[01:00:57] And him recognizing that most of the people, like most people in their school, one way or another have been saved or helped by Buffy, which is absolutely true more than they know, really.

[01:01:14] And the line about how he says we're proud to say that the class of 99 has the lowest mortality rate of any graduating class in Sunnydale history is just... It's hilarious. It's just like, really? I mean, great.

[01:01:30] But we'll talk about this in the end of the season wrap up like it's still a pretty high mortality rate. But it's just, it's such a nice moment and cutting to Giles in his, you know, kind of proud dad face.

[01:01:48] He's so happy for Buffy and that just kind of radiates off of him. And Sarah Michelle Gellar's face acting is unparalleled and she looks so, you know, kind of shocked and humbled and moved. It gets me every time. Yeah.

[01:02:07] And they did such a great job with the lighting and how there's a spotlight on her.

[01:02:12] And then she walks up to the stage and she does one of her fantastic head turns where you get, you know, her amazing smile and everything is sort of like fantasy, princessy, unicorn colors, right? Everything sort of sparkly around her. She looks so pretty. Sparkly.

[01:02:31] Like she's so pretty. She's so not overdone, right? It's the simplest hairstyle. She's got that one clip. It's like just enough sparkle to make her look special. And then I love when, you know, Giles says I had no idea children on mass could be gracious. Yeah.

[01:02:51] I'm like, gracious. Yes. That's the perfect word for that. Like that they, that they all recognize that, that she should be acknowledged in some way is beautiful.

[01:03:01] I always wonder if like, you know, prom committee approached Willow and Oz and we're like, this is what we're planning to do. Well, this work, you know what I mean? Like they did they get some input?

[01:03:11] Did Willow know that was going to happen because she kind of has a look on her face like it's happening. Yeah. She's happy and not completely surprised, which is really cute. I do like Willow's prom look too.

[01:03:22] It looks, I don't know the, the is it like a, it's almost a zebra-y, like a brown zebra print wrap. That she has. The wrap was a little annoying because she's holding on to it for dear life. Yeah.

[01:03:37] But I can also see that with Willow being a little bit more reserved and, you know, self-conscious about showing her like clavicles and yeah. She's got like good cleavage going on in that dress, but she still has, you know, it's like her little security wrap.

[01:03:54] I can, I can understand that. She did. She looked fantastic and I love when Buffy says to Giles, Plus I got a little twice surprise. That was so cute. It was just adorable and it's funny. I think the umbrella itself is pretty cheesy looking. Yeah.

[01:04:15] And the number of people with tattoos of it that I have seen. Yeah. I've been sort of considering some Buffy related tattoo and looking at different images from the show to think about what I might want.

[01:04:28] And that one keeps coming up and I'm like, no, I really, I don't like it. What I love the image of is the side from season seven. Oh yeah. But I've also like do I want a weapon on my body? I like the stick finger too.

[01:04:45] Yeah, I like the stick finger we use for our logo. Yeah. That's kind of classic. That's very high in the running for me on something that I'm considering.

[01:04:57] And I yeah, I haven't landed on anything yet every now and then I'll do just a Google image search like Buffy tattoos and then it's like, It's interesting what some people have put on their bodies. Oh yeah.

[01:05:09] Like some of it is like, whoa, you're going to regret that. I think the crit like I saw one of it was like Oz's face on someone's entire back and it was very much Oz because it was like mid transition almost where his eyes looked like werewolf.

[01:05:26] Oh, like werewolf? Yeah. And it was it was intense. It's like, oh, I think I looked at I typed in like subtle Buffy tattoos and that came up. I was like, no, no, I don't think that's not subtle. That's not that word.

[01:05:43] The only other thing I think I had in my notes was the difference in the vibes you get from Giles looking at the teenagers like Buffy. Yeah.

[01:05:56] Compared to how Wesley is looking at Cordelia just everybody has such excellent facial expressions and it just the paternal instinct that he has is wonderful. Wesley's body language is very sort of jittery. Oh, yeah.

[01:06:17] And it's like he's very stimulated by his environment whereas Giles is comfortable in his skin and at no point is Giles like, oh no, am I inappropriately attracted to these young girls? Like it just never. No. He sees them. He is age appropriate with them.

[01:06:34] It does not even cross his mind. And it's just and he's around some beautiful quote unquote teenagers who are not actually vulnerable. Right?

[01:06:48] Like he is in a position of power with these young people who look up to him and rely on him and who he sees in their most vulnerable moments. If he was a jerk, he could really take advantage of it and he doesn't. He's wonderful.

[01:07:03] And he's not that trend where it's like naming different celebrities, different men you'd feel safe leaving your drink with or being alone in a room with. Giles is 100% on that list. Yes. Even though he did one that one time poison Buffy. Yeah.

[01:07:23] And he felt really bad about it. He really did. I don't think he would ever do that again without a really good reason. No. And it wasn't nefarious sexually. So that's nice. Yeah, I answered that question on the internet somewhere. I said LeVar Burton. Oh yeah. That yeah. 100%.

[01:07:46] That's nice. I love LeVar Burton. I have a real huge crush on LeVar Burton. And that's what I will say. I think that's a nice thing about our podcastica community because I feel that way about every single guy in our community. They're all fantastic. Good people.

[01:08:05] They're safe and wonderful and lovely. Yeah, and supportive. I have gotten support virtually from people within the podcastica community who I've never met. And who don't really know anything about me and don't have anything to gain except just being kind. Right. Yeah.

[01:08:27] It's what keeps me wanting to do this all the time, even though it's like takes up a lot of time and energy. Like I love being part of this community. So refreshing. Really, really is. It's a special thing that podcastica has created. The community is really amazing.

[01:08:43] The podcasts are really good too. Oh yeah, that's true. That's a bonus. Yeah. But yeah, special shout out to our podcastica men for sure.

[01:08:52] I was thinking a lot about prom and it's sort of giant presence in the mind of American teenagers and that all the pressure that goes along with it and all the expectations and the money and just so many, you know, the whole trope of like women losing girls losing their virginity on prom night and like.

[01:09:16] Oh yeah. The whole all the drama around prom queen and you know prom court and all the stuff and like I was also thinking a lot about our international listeners and what what American prom has been sort of exported around the world. I was messaging back and forth.

[01:09:39] I think with Jolene about they didn't have prom when she went to high school in England. Okay. But now they have it because it's been sort of exported like it's been in all these American movies and like people.

[01:09:53] They want to have a prom because it looks, you know, like it looks so iconic and fun and very romanticized and idealized. Well, and I didn't know that other countries had I thought it was purely an American thing in a couple weeks ago.

[01:10:13] Oh gosh now like a month ago when I was in Scotland.

[01:10:17] We were driving back from I did a tour, a day tour that with a big group, and we were driving back and there's a little bit of a traffic jam in one of the small towns we were driving through and all of a sudden we see

[01:10:33] a bunch of parents and then all of these kids in formal wear and they're like, oh I wonder what's going on. And I was like it looks like prom and our tour guide. She was this 30 year old Scottish woman and she goes, Oh you're right.

[01:10:51] It is prom season. I was like, hold up. You guys have prom here? She's like, yeah, it hasn't been around for too long but she's like I had prom in high school and everybody always was kind of pushing for it. And it's it always looked like fun.

[01:11:08] So fantastic. And they were adorable. They had you know their corsages and everything it was really interesting to see that in Scotland. That was the last thing I expected. Yeah, that's really funny.

[01:11:22] As some of you know, we if you follow us on Facebook, we posted a bunch of pictures of of us from our own proms and and in on one's case a formal that wasn't called prom but was a lot like prom.

[01:11:36] And they're pretty hilarious like, you know, I love them so much dated. Hair is really funny. The dresses are funny like the guys are wearing cummerbunds that are so adorable. Like, it's just I'm pretty orange.

[01:11:55] This was, you know, yeah, it looked like you're into like mystic spray tan or something fun fact my first job ever was working at a tanning salon freshman year of high school through senior year of high school and one of the quote unquote perks was getting to tan for free.

[01:12:13] So a lot of my high school pictures are a little intense. Looking at it now so funny. I was just like, oh my gosh, somebody should have stopped me.

[01:12:30] I always was sort of suspect of traditions and and taking part in them and so my approach to prom at first I wasn't even going to go my senior year and then one of my friends had the idea to rent a yellow school bus instead of a limo and to sort of go to prom as a

[01:12:49] awesome. And that came together really fast and it ended up being six couples on the bus.

[01:12:58] And, you know, we got in touch with the school district and asked about renting a bus and one of the bus drivers heard about it and he thought it was such a great idea that he donated his time. And he got all dressed up.

[01:13:12] And when we got on the bus he had brought like snacks and a cooler full of sodas. Oh my God. That's like a movie. It was so sweet. It was so sweet of him and it was, it was so funny.

[01:13:25] And when we showed up at prom, we got to prom really late because first we went out for Chinese food all in our prom outfits right we went to this like sort of hole in the wall Chinese we place then we went to the mall for frozen yogurt dressed up and we played

[01:13:40] ski ball at the mall. We were having so much fun. That sounds fantastic. And then we went to the prom and when we got to the prom first people were like where have you been? And I was like having fun.

[01:13:50] And other people we could hear it around the room. Who prom school bus? Why is there a school bus? Because our prom wasn't at the school. It was at like some event space. Yeah. It wasn't even in our state. It was in Maine. Dang.

[01:14:05] It was like an hour away. So yeah, it was it was pretty silly and we had a really good time. Your prom sounds we didn't take it seriously. So I had I broke up with my boyfriend like three weeks before prom. It was a long time coming.

[01:14:28] Like it was he knew it was coming to and I didn't want to like at that point he didn't want to go as far as I could. I didn't want to go as friends and I understood that. And I still went with my same group of friends.

[01:14:43] I just didn't have a date, which was awesome. Like I remember my dad at first he was like yeah, I was kind of worried about you but you were fine.

[01:14:55] And I was like honestly, I think going back it was so much less stressful not to have that pressure. And the prom itself was fun like everybody danced with everyone we had we were at a hotel downtown in Houston.

[01:15:10] It was really nice is nicer than most weddings I've been to which was absurd.

[01:15:16] And then we went to a friend's lake house afterwards and that was probably more of the stereotypical aspect of aspect of prom that people would think of is the after party and I didn't really drink in high school.

[01:15:33] I maybe a couple times and my parents were very big on like look if you want to try it, you can have a sip. You can try beer at the house and so all the like mystery and mystique was taken away.

[01:15:48] And I spent the night of my prom babysitting a bunch of my friends who were drunk throwing up crying people getting in fights and looking back on it. I'm just like gosh this was so unnecessarily like typical high school kind of experience.

[01:16:11] That didn't happen to be a prom but I've definitely been in that situation at like a house party in high school where I was like why am I in charge of these people now? How did that happen? Oh man.

[01:16:25] I will never forget there was a Halloween party around homecoming and I wore... Oh jeez. I wore... Somebody embarrassed like you. Yeah, I was a ladybug and I had like fishnets, a ladybug tube dress and like antenna. Oh yeah.

[01:16:45] I don't know why my parents let me leave anyway. It was just to a house party and I will never forget the amount of times I had vomit on me that night from other people. I was just like why do we do this? Like this is not fun.

[01:17:02] I don't understand. That's so high school. Really it's like... Oh my god. And I think I had like a ribbon choker like kind of think Lindsay Lohan. So 90s. In Mean Girls when she shows like I...

[01:17:19] That was a time but I had plenty of normal high school experiences that I do not wish to experience ever again. Yeah, it was like done. It's past. Yeah. We had mentioned to our listeners like please send in pictures of yourself at prom.

[01:17:40] The only one we got was from Becky. She looks amazing. It's so good. Those pictures are so good. So I'll post that on the Facebook page and people can see it because she looks so good in her prom pictures. We still want them. Yes. So keep sending...

[01:17:58] Like if you see them now and you're like oh my god, I wish I had sent in my picture please send them to us. We love them. And graduation. Graduation. Yeah, send in graduation pictures. Any graduation pictures. Graduating from anything.

[01:18:12] If you got a certificate at the Y for completing swimming classes send it in. I love it. Because we love them and we would love to share them and they make us so happy.

[01:18:23] I found a couple of pictures from my college graduation and I look so bad and dorky but I'm gonna share it. Oh man, I'm gonna have to do some digging. I had my law school one that one's what a decade ago. That's a little...

[01:18:41] Oh I have a cute picture from when I got sworn into the bar. That's a little bit like a graduation. Yeah that's fun. It felt like it. Geez. Finally. My favorite picture is I had a graduation but it wasn't my graduation. It was my little sister's graduation.

[01:18:58] And I looked really good that day. Nice. And there's all these pictures where I look good and my little sister looks good and our other sister's like blinking or sneezing or something. And I'm like, I really want to frame this one. Yep. Like.

[01:19:14] It's so difficult to get a picture where everyone is happy with how they look. Or I always end up blinking or squinting or now with a little bit of Botox it's less so because I can't move as much. But the smiles are out of control.

[01:19:33] With digital photography right you can look at the picture right away and you can look at the pictures and you can see that there's a lot of people who are happy with how they look.

[01:19:43] And I'm like, I'm going to take a picture of the 20 of them and hopefully you'll get a good one. But when it was filmed cameras, you know, it was one picture and you didn't find out what it looked like for like six weeks.

[01:19:56] So yeah, it was very hard to get a picture where everybody looked good. But I will share those graduation pictures where I think I look cute just real quick. It comes from the word promenade or promenade dance and it's called prom in American English.

[01:20:15] There are regional differences about people who say prom or the prom. So there's some people will say, do you want to go to prom? And some people will say, do you want to go to the prom? And it just seems to be regional.

[01:20:34] And where I grew up in New Hampshire, people said the prom. And I always wanting to be contrary insisted on just saying prom because I just thought. I think I had heard it in pretty in pink. I think Molly Ringwald's character calls it just prom.

[01:20:53] And so I was like, I'm going to say it like her because that's cool. The things I thought were cool in high school or that mattered in high school are ridiculous. I mean, to be fair, I also really loved Molly Ringwald in high school.

[01:21:05] They showed breakfast club pretty in pink on TBS. I think it was all the time. And now looking back on shows like 16 candles, I was obsessed with 16 candles. I watched it like a week ago. Really upsetting. Yeah. And I was just like, oh my gosh.

[01:21:26] I was like, I don't remember any of it. Like there's a lot of horrifying. Really? Like on so many levels, like sex that's sexually problematic. It's racially problematic. Like it's just all over the place. And I was like, oh, huh.

[01:21:41] I guess 10 year old me was not processing any of this. Yeah. That movie really does not hold up. So most proms are formal or semi-formal and a lot of proms, they have a prom king and prom queen. And often there's also a prom court.

[01:22:00] And that's usually people that like were runners up for queen and king. A lot of schools, they do prom king and queen are a student vote situation and there's campaigning and it's a whole big thing like the homecoming episode for Buffy.

[01:22:14] But my high school, there was a king, queen, prince and princess and they were chosen by the chaperones and not by the students at all. That's interesting. And the year of my senior prom, the or my junior prom I guess, the prom princess was the daughter of the

[01:22:38] head chaperone. And we were all like, okay, did you be more obvious? That's funny. But because it wasn't a campaign, like even when the prom royal court got announced at the prom, it was sort of like, oh, that's happening, whatever.

[01:22:57] It didn't matter because of how it was set up. Nobody was invested in it. The people won, got a crown and that's it. I think it's pretty problematic. Yeah. We didn't do prom king and queen. Now in Texas homecoming is the big deal. Right, because it's football related.

[01:23:19] And we do, you know, moms. Have you seen moms for Texas homecoming? No. Oh my gosh, I'm going to have to send you some. They are insane and it was kind of a bit of a competition. It's almost like a huge corsage but not made out of

[01:23:40] actual flower. It's so hard to describe. I'll post a picture and I'll send you some. It's like, it got to be almost like a competition of how big your mom would be and you would get a mom from your date.

[01:23:54] You could get a mom for like a specific team or organization you were in and homecoming month really was a big deal. So we had a homecoming court. People were nominated and it was like five guys and five girls and then at the homecoming game,

[01:24:12] the homecoming court was presented in like formal wear escorted by a parent of the opposite sex. And it was this whole big thing during half time and then everybody voted and results were announced at the homecoming dance and that was like the big, big deal.

[01:24:32] I don't think we had anything equivalent to prom king or queen other than that. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a lot of prom traditions like you know getting those couple photos where the guy stands behind him with his arms around her like that seems to be a

[01:24:51] standard like all over the country. Yeah. Renting a limousine is a big thing that people do. I personally hate limousines. I think they're really uncomfortable and stupid. Yeah. I was I was anxious the entire time. Yeah. I was like we don't have seatbelts guys.

[01:25:09] Yeah, we're just rolling around back in formal wear. That has been my experience. I didn't do limous for either of the problems I went to but I've ridden in them for weddings a bunch and and you know my hideous bridesmaid dress and not enjoyed it. Good times.

[01:25:28] There are sort of equivalents to proms in other countries that have some fun names in our tradition. I wanted to share that in Poland and Lithuania the high schools organized it's called a studenjauka and it is just a formal dance that happens in the

[01:25:47] spring but that this this is all from like Wikipedia is that prom has been exported from the U.S. now and like lots and lots of people have prom and or something like prom and it's at the end of high school.

[01:26:01] There have been a lot of controversies around prom and the sort of main ones have to do with LGBTQ students wanting to you know either go alone, go in a group, go with a date of the same gender or just girls who don't want to wear dresses

[01:26:21] and want to wear something like a tuxedo and they get like kicked out of prom. There's there's a lot of interesting case law about it. If you're a wicked nerd like you know groups like the ACLU get involved. Another thing that happens is that sometimes people

[01:26:39] throw alternative proms where it's like well if the main prom won't let gay kids go then we're going to have our own prom and they like you know kids get together and organize something or parents help them. I have been to a couple of different adult.

[01:26:54] I never got to go to my prom so I'm going to have one now parties where everybody gets like real promy prom dresses with like crinolines and the whole thing and disco ball and play you know music from the 80s and like

[01:27:08] just fun just sort of and it as an adult it's so much more fun because you don't take any of it seriously. There's no pressure and you're just like isn't it fun to wear sparkly clothes like it's just pure silliness.

[01:27:21] 80s prom is what I picture in my head even though I that's not my you know my prom was in 2006 but 80s prom is how I envision it. That night like it's all carry it's like yeah carry is a good example of footloose.

[01:27:44] Mean Girls has a great prom scene Twilight has a prom scene there's a lot of movies and she's all that. Oh she's all that. That was like yes. American Pie their whole that entire movie is about them losing their virginity by prom.

[01:28:02] At prom or by prom yeah it's ridiculous. She's. I also wanted to give a shout out to some of the music in the episode so hilariously celebrate by cool and the gang pulls the hellhounds back from chasing Buffy and she's like that song sucks anyway.

[01:28:20] It's hilarious because it's played it was played at every event I went to in high school and college like sell up like every wedding every formal event like just everybody they always played it's a good song but not if you hear it like 700 times yeah that's

[01:28:35] there was praise you by fat boy slim. And that is still on my like you know get energized playlist the Good Life by Cracker I wasn't with that song but it's pretty good and then oh my heart Wild Horses by the Sundays. Yep.

[01:28:55] Is an absolutely beautiful cover of a Rolling Stones song which I had a huge argument with a boyfriend about one time and he was like no the Sundays wrote that song and I'm fairly certain the Rolling Stones. I have like personal memories that are

[01:29:10] attached to that song from from college but it was the perfect choice for Buffy and Angels Dance and so sweet. It's just so nice. It's beautiful. Yeah, I love the voice of the singer from the Sundays. I think she's really motive and fantastic

[01:29:30] and she makes you actually feel like yeah. It's wonderful. Oh promy prom prom. Good times sometimes. I think we're already sort of the but let's talk about some of the pop culture references we saw in the show this week. There are some good ones this week really

[01:29:55] really so first up we have Cordelia saying to Wesley I bet you would look way 007 in the tucks and this is of course a reference to the James Bond movies James Bond being a secret agent whose number was 007 beginning with Sean Connery in

[01:30:13] 1962's Dr. No and continuing on to this was the most recent at the time tomorrow never dies with Pierce Brosnan. That's really out of date. Yep. Let's see wait. The entire Daniel Craig era never dies. 1997 so that was the most recent James Bond movie when this

[01:30:39] episode came out. I thought gosh I had a giant crush on Pierce Brosnan around that time. He was so attractive. So handsome and such a good bond and GoldenEye on Nintendo in 64 but there's a 007 game that I was obsessed with that feels very nostalgic for this time period

[01:31:05] to get to the movie. We get it. Miles to go before we sleep. This is a reference to the very famous Robert Frost stopping by woods on a snowy evening of which the last line is miles to go before I sleep. I love that. Buffy quoted Robert Frost.

[01:31:32] That's appropriate. When she said something like she makes a good job buff. She didn't get it in Northwestern. Then we've got Xander saying or Chectus E who's been stocking up on Hellhounds snossages and snossages are a specific dog treat from Heinz pet products. I remember

[01:31:56] they had the best ads in the 90s. It was like the dog would just be like snossages. So cute. I have had like a flashback as soon as you said that. Buffy says to Angel, I've got to stop a crazy from pulling a carry at the prom.

[01:32:14] Carry is a book by Stephen King came out in 1974 about a girl with telekinetic abilities tormented by her classmates and she gets her revenge on them by using her abilities to destroy the prom leaving I didn't know this part 440 dead at 18 missing.

[01:32:32] It was made into a movie in 1976 and a sequel which was not authorized by Stephen King in 99 and there's been remakes since then. It was with Chloe Grace Moretz as Carrie. That 1999 carry was terrible and I never saw either

[01:32:52] of them. Oh my God. And I know it's a classic American movie. Wait, you haven't seen like the original carry? No, I haven't. Oh my gosh we have to watch that. I'm coming to Boston and we're watching that movie. It is unreal. Like Stephen King

[01:33:10] you know, I have a lot of mixed feel like some of his books, some of the movies are real misses but carry is freaking amazing. Anyway, I'll stop nerding out about carry but that's on the list. So next we've got Buffy I love this one saying now I'm

[01:33:30] going to lock you in here and then I'm going to party like it's 19 and of course she was about to say 99 in reference to Prince's song 1999 released in 1982 and the chorus includes the words tonight. I'm going to party like it's 1999. I love that song.

[01:33:52] Love it, love it, love it. Buffy says devil dogs are history. Devil dogs are a fact cake. Think chocolate Twinkies made by Drake's cakes and distributed in the New York, New Jersey area. It's interesting. Oh, I love that. I was saying I got all teared up

[01:34:10] when they played We Are Family and We Are Family is of course a classic party song from 1979 by sister sludge. That's the other song that is played at every single wedding I've ever been to. It's a good song. I've heard it enough. Sander refers to Tucker as

[01:34:34] a word play on the Hellraiser movie franchise. And then again Buffy jokes that Angel gets his blood from McPlasma's a word play on the McDonald's fast food company. Tucker uses some DHS tapes of some classic promy movies in order to train his hellhounds including Prom Night

[01:35:01] 1980, Pump Up the Volume Prom Night 4 Deliver Us From Evil 92, Pretty in Pink 84, The Club 94 and Carrie 76. I've only seen two of those. I've seen two of them. Oh man. Good times. I'm going to go through the podcast. You should watch Pump Up the Volume just saying.

[01:35:31] It's like pre-podcast podcasting. Interesting. And it's Christian Slater. Sold. Watch that. With that we move on to the slightly different category of trivia. And note that we're going to be talking about Buffy in that sort of lilac-y pink dress and Angel Linus talks. Thank you.

[01:36:01] Next, you might remember when we covered Lovers Walk which is season 3's episode 8. We talked about a contest that was announced. And back when that episode first aired in the U.S., it was followed by an advertisement for the phone service 1800 Collect

[01:36:19] by David Boreanas as Buffy and Angel offered viewers a prize of a walk on part in the show. And so the winner of that competition was a girl named Jessica Johnson from Maryland and she won a three day trip for two to participate as extras

[01:36:35] in this episode of The Prom. That would have been so fun. Right. Angel dreams that he and Buffy get married in this episode of The Prom and the photo of Buffy and Angel in their wedding outfits appeared in TV Guide before the episode aired leading to fan hysteria

[01:36:55] that the two would marry. Geez. I bet that was fun. Buffy's wedding dress in the episode The Prom was designed by Vera Wang and in real life Sarah Michelle Geller's wedding dress for when she married Freddie Prince Jr was also designed by Vera Wang

[01:37:13] and Buffy's pink prom dress in this episode was designed by Pamela Dennis. Absolutely beautiful dress. There was a conversation cut from the episode for length where Giles says fine you're all suffering from a touch of spring madness if you ask me

[01:37:31] and Oz says mine is more space madness but I'll feel better once I get used to the weightlessness and Willow says to Oz promise me you'll never be linear and Oz says on my trout I love that promise me you'll never be linear that's perfect so fantastic

[01:37:57] they're so cute oh man next Sarah Michelle Geller talked to Entertainment Weekly about her personal favorite Buffy episodes and the prom was one of the ones she mentioned that I loved the prom it stood for everything Buffy was about the fact that she so badly

[01:38:17] wanted to be part of the other kids lives which is true you definitely see that sacrifices herself it is very sort of a little bit of everything that makes Buffy great yeah Bonita Friderici I bet I pronounced that wrong who played the manager of the clothes shop

[01:38:37] April Fools Mrs. Finkel Buffy verse once more as patients in the Angel episode Peace Out we'll have to keep it out for her when we get there there are so many little crossovers which obviously makes sense but the amount of times that person looks really familiar

[01:38:57] and there's a reason let's see the band at the prom can be heard seeing the lines Aladdin and his lamp and Brad Kane the little antagonist was the singing voice of Aladdin in the Disney movie he also provided the singing voice for Jonathan's rendition of Serenade in Blue

[01:39:17] in season 4's Superstar we'll see that coming up which is a pretty, I like that episode he is sometimes credited as Caleb Kane Tucker's talented this next one is amazing who would have thought he seemed like such a loser because that's acting

[01:39:37] in the scene where Angel breaks up with Buffy Sarah Michelle Geller has admitted that she could not stop crying and the set was closed for 25 minutes to allow her to recover that is adorable they put everything into that yeah, I mean it just

[01:39:53] I mean it shows in the performance that we see that there's so much emotion behind everything it's beautiful for sure so we're at that point where I ask you does it still slay? you know I think it does I enjoyed this episode more than

[01:40:13] I expected to on a rewatch it's still not one of my favorites but that class protector moment really catapults it for me honestly it's just such a sweet moment there are great funny moments here and there and I love the beginning that we see with Sandra and Ania

[01:40:41] and that's all I'll say so let's go on over to the bronze and get some feedback bronze things things of bronze we didn't get a lot of feedback but we got a lot from the people we got feedback from yeah so we'll start with Ania who says

[01:41:06] this is one of my all time favorites the whole episode has it all drama, sadness, funny, scary and the ending melts my heart every time angel breaking up with Buffy was sad that we know it was the right thing to do it didn't make seeing it any easier

[01:41:20] I love the whole Ania asking Sandra to the prom moments they are so adorable poor courtee sad she's fallen on tough times she sets up her story for when she moves over to Angel what I love most about this episode

[01:41:36] is Jonathan's speech and the award he gives Buffy even when broken hearted she does everything she can to ensure her friends are safe and they have an exciting time by risking her life to fight the bad guys this is what Buffy is all about

[01:41:48] and the fact that all this time her efforts have not gone unnoticed there are a lot of good quotes in the episode but my favorite quote is what Jonathan says to her when he gives the award sorry it's a long one but worth hearing I think

[01:42:00] we're not good friends most of us never found the time to get to know you but that doesn't mean we haven't noticed you we don't talk about it much but it's no secret that Sunnydale High isn't really like other high schools a lot of weird stuff happens here

[01:42:14] but whenever there was a problem or something creepy happened you seem to show up and stop it most of the people here have been saved by you or helped by you at one time or another we're proud to say that the class of 99 has the lowest mortality rate

[01:42:29] of any graduating class in Sunnydale history and we know at least part of that is because of you so the senior class offers its thanks and gives you this it's from all of us and it has written here Buffy Summers Class Protector so sweet love it oh yeah

[01:42:48] great moment and she says on to my prom story I'll try to keep it short but we all know I'm not great at that we love you Becky she said horrible night I didn't get a lot of dates I shared my story of growing up

[01:43:04] in a small town where being biracial was difficult and I usually didn't have dates to group or couple activities so having a date to my senior prom was very important to me I asked a guy who is in our friend group we'd gone out a few

[01:43:18] times just the two of us and I had a major crush on him he knew it too he agreed but he did not make it a fun night well I almost don't do that to our Becky I've got to watch myself on cursing

[01:43:32] when reading feedback it slips out way more easily hmm that guy so she said one I had to pay for his tucks and get my own corsage two he came to my house for pictures but he wouldn't ride with me to the prom so we took separate cars

[01:43:54] what? what? what? I hate this guy three he wouldn't go out to eat with me before the prom like our other friends were doing does this guy just not like fun four after only 15 minutes of being there he started bugging me about leaving

[01:44:10] I had to beg him to at least give me one dance five I gave in later and we left early and drove separately to our friends cabin where the after party was to be of course we were the only ones there

[01:44:24] because everyone else was still at the prom enjoying themselves we didn't have keys to get in the house oh my gosh so I sat in his car and waited he laid his seat back and went to sleep oh my gosh this guy is so

[01:44:40] poor I hate this guy well and I hate that you didn't have like a smart phone in uber at the time to like get the hell out of there that sucks she did I sat there embarrassed, angry and sad after about 30 minutes I said

[01:45:00] fuck this got in my car and left good for you Becky on the way out I took a wrong turn and ended up in North Carolina about 35 minutes out of the way that only added to my anger I turned around and once I got close to home

[01:45:18] I stopped and got a bunch of junk food I arrived home hours earlier than my curfew so my mom knew it didn't go well she didn't like him and I should have listened to her we've all been there she said she gave me a much needed

[01:45:34] mom hug and curled up with me to watch movies and eat junk food oh that's very joy I love that so much it was at this point in my life I learned it's okay to do things on your own I often think if I'd gone by myself

[01:45:50] I would have had so much fun this is my favorite part the only good thing about that night is he had good weed which might also explain why you fell asleep the junk food too yeah that makes that junk food extra sweet oh that's fantastic Becky

[01:46:10] you didn't deserve a date like that but your description of it is so funny and well written so thank you for sharing it with us that's one of those things that is funny after the fact like after you can get over being treated that way yeah exactly

[01:46:34] he didn't want to go out to eat whoa man thanks Becky we love your feedback please never stop alright we got two voicemails I'm going to play Anwin first hi Penny and Cara it's Anwin the prom what a great episode

[01:46:54] I really love it it's one of my favorites has a bit of everything has action with the monster of the week has the through story with a lot of character development we get quite a bit of humour and the kind of truce that comes between Sander and Cordelia

[01:47:10] he buys her that dress it's really lovely to see we don't have prom in New Zealand we have the formal but it's pretty much the same thing and I wore a beautiful dress to my formal which I made myself because back in the early 90s very early 90s

[01:47:28] you couldn't really buy royal dresses so everybody made their own you all knew how to sew from sewing class at school and I had a black velvet bodice with a sweetheart neckline and a princess waistline with silver puff sleeves and a silver skirt

[01:47:50] and I would really like to know what each of you wore to your prom if indeed you went to prom the other fashion thing that I love from the episode was all little twisty hairdos with the tweed twists and the little silvery sparkly clips

[01:48:04] it is so 90s absolutely love it anyway love what you do can't wait to hear the final two EPs of this season and moving through can't believe that we're going to be on season 4 in a whole new adventure bye bye Annwin

[01:48:22] Annwin is one of the people who sent us a picture and we posted it on Facebook she looked adorable in her princess dress I took one look at that dress and immediately emailed her back and was like was that really hard to sew because that silver fabric

[01:48:36] was like slippery and stretchy and it must have been such a nightmarried work on but it looked fantastic it looked so awesome the dresses that you and Annwin wore are the type of dress that I still picture in my head when I think of prom

[01:48:52] because of all the movies that I watched growing up like my prom dress I mean it was like a fitted silk dress that was mermaid so the skirt kind of flared out in the end and it was all kind of like ruched and gathered

[01:49:08] it was a really nice dress I really loved that dress it was like this baby blue silk but it still doesn't really feel prom to me like I still associate prom with more of like puffy sleeves and maybe some taffeta and velvet

[01:49:24] that's sort of a little bit more fussy my dress I shopped and shopped and shopped I could not find a prom dress that fit me right I'm quite tall and broad and so I had this problem where dresses just would not fit like across my shoulders

[01:49:44] or my back or they would be way too short so that like my breasts would pop out so I ended up having a dress made and I picked out this like deep emerald green taffeta which is another very difficult fabric to work with and I found

[01:50:04] like a seamstress who did custom work I don't know how I found her and she was weird and kind of scary and I was just kind of scary and I had to go there for lots of fittings and stuff but the end result

[01:50:20] was a dress that I liked and that fit me perfectly and it had a full skirt and I had like a petticoat underneath you know with like crinolines and I put my hair in a french braid which now I know is not actually the best

[01:50:36] style for me and I had early bangs back then and I don't know the hair situation was not great I didn't know how to put on makeup so I just like I don't know what I was doing so you can see that in the picture

[01:50:48] I don't look all that fancy but the dress I wore two different proms so I really feel like I got my money's worth out of that because of course when my friends decided we were gonna make prom a joke senior year

[01:51:00] I was like I'm not going through the dress thing again I'll just wear the same dress I wore last year and it'll be fine my date my prom date was from another high school my junior year prom date was from another high school

[01:51:18] and my senior year prom date was from another high school and I met him because we both worked at the Gap at the mall so 80's and we had been hanging out a whole bunch not really dating but just like hanging out a lot and

[01:51:36] I remember this so clearly we were at the gas station and I I needed gas and he was like I'll pump your gas and I was like okay and he jumped out of the car and he was pumping gas

[01:51:48] and my friend Laura was in the car with me and she was like you should ask Dan to prom and I was like oh that's a great idea I just rolled down the window and was like do you want to go to prom

[01:51:56] and he was like hell yeah oh that's fantastic and he was a fantastic date he was a lot of fun to hang out with we're still friendly I still see him sometimes he lives he lives in Maine I think now but for a while he lived

[01:52:12] in Somerville which is the town I live in in Massachusetts and I would see him like around town he's a musician and for a while in the mid 90's he was often playing in like public places he was busking right so I would be like waiting

[01:52:28] for the subway or something and I would hear like Penny hey Penny over like an amplifier and be like what and it would be it would be Dan like playing guitar in a subway station or something he's just the sweetest guy and he is an incredibly talented

[01:52:44] artist and musician because apparently I have always had that type and yeah I have happy memories of him as a prom date we never were a couple but he was just a lovely person to hang out with I got lucky senior prom was a lot

[01:53:04] of fun junior prom was fine but senior prom was really fun just iconic showing up in a school bus like that that's fantastic so a few years later when my younger brother was going to prom he and his friends he was in a group that was

[01:53:22] with the younger brother of one of my friends who had been on the school bus also and so he and this friend were like oh we have to do something better than what they did and so they rented like a U-Haul box truck

[01:53:36] to go to prom in and like they didn't really think it through that sounds miserable in the back of the truck there's no seats there's no seat belts you're just rattling around back there I get what you guys were trying to do

[01:53:54] I don't think that was much of a success the pictures from it are pretty funny because there's like before they all got in the truck and they're all like standard looking happy to go to prom and then after they all look like they've been to war

[01:54:06] they're like oh my gosh I cannot imagine there was somebody so funny like Hummer limos were the big thing that and during the time when I had my prom we did not have we had some it was like a nice regular limo I don't even really remember

[01:54:30] but somebody showed up and they were like limos with a jacuzzi in the back and it was and they were not allowed in at least two guys were already in the jacuzzi hammered tried to get out and go into prom in the hotel and that did not happen

[01:54:56] and all I remember because you know Facebook started when was it like 2004-2005 something like that and then it opened up to people with dot edu addresses and I remember everybody getting accepted to college and being really excited once you got your dot edu

[01:55:18] address because then you could sign up for Facebook and everybody at that point had disposable cameras or digital cameras and the very next day after prom I remember all of us logging on to the computer at the lake house trying to see if they had uploaded pictures

[01:55:36] from that jacuzzi limo and there were a lot and there were some that I don't know how they stayed on Facebook and thinking about that now I was like thank god that came in towards the tail end of school like I am so happy that

[01:55:56] I did not have social media in middle school or the beginning of high school it was like for two months senior year of high school it was just starting and I there's a lot of stuff that never made it on the internet AAYYYY for never will cheese

[01:56:18] we got another voicemail this one is from piot our good friend he's been here for a long and I didn't listen to it in advance because I want to be surprised so here we go this is audible my prom memory read by piot for the still slaying podcast

[01:56:40] I went to high school in the first half of the 90s in Poland it was quite a fancy art school but it was free as education should be yes there are art focused high schools in Poland mine was set in the mountains in a town called Zakopane

[01:56:58] it had a slight hog words vibe to it because it was in a castle like building in the middle of a mysterious beach tree grove and it had this musty old auditorium plus nearly all students there were weirdos I was quite excited having been accepted

[01:57:16] but the high school experience deflated my excitement quite fast the prom was just a culmination of the suck prom in Poland is called studniówka because it takes place 100 days before the finals called matura, the maturity exam studni 100 days studniówka I wouldn't be surprised if polish title

[01:57:38] for this puppy episode was something enigmatic again like 100 days ahead but apparently it's just graduation ball so never mind yeah Polish kids go to high school for 4-5 years and when they're done they're either 18, 19 or 20 years old 18 years old is the legal drinking age in Poland

[01:57:58] which I think is way better than 21 for various reasons this means that the studniówka is an actual booze infused grown up party with not much chaperoning involved kids bring along their plus ones making up with them and making the single kids resentful because

[01:58:20] this is the last party before the end of school and everyone's getting busy with some randos rather than spending last precious moment with the classmates I for one hated the disconnect but part of it was pure jealousy I was one of the singles of course

[01:58:41] my love life in high school let's just say there wasn't any aside from a few crushes and burns I could have just asked a friend but I was in the half fun with your classmates camp there isn't much I remember from the prom itself

[01:58:59] aside from an embarrassing wardrobe malfunction a clash with a tipsy skin head and they hangover afterwards let's start with the wardrobe malfunction I needed a suit for the party something elegant at the time my family was struggling and I didn't give a rat's ass about clothes anyway

[01:59:19] so my dad offered to lend me his brown suit it was way too big I looked like a scarecrow but it didn't bother me I just needed a belt to keep my dad's oversized pants on the belt malfunctioned about half an hour into the party

[01:59:35] and I had to run to the nearest restroom while holding up my dad's pants there was no way out of this one the belt was useless and the pants were about three sizes too large luckily one of my classmates suspenders were purely decorative so

[01:59:53] he was kind enough to discreetly lend me his it was either that or people needed the bathroom to become accessible again and something had to be done now the skin head thing our school had somewhat highly developed network of white nationalists skinheads and nazi punks they were recruited

[02:00:15] and inspired by our own gym teacher who was an active nationalist party member they were basically buds and the attraction to the cause was strong among the clueless kids it really had the American history eggs vibe to it one of the skinheads got tipsy

[02:00:33] and aggressive at the prom when I was dancing with a classmate another one of the singles the skinhead approached broke us off and whispered into my ear move away from the girl I'm stronger than you and sort of forced me out so I moved because my fighting spirit

[02:00:53] and skills in high school matched my love life score plus even if you successfully fend of one skinhead you had the whole swarm of them to deal with later not to mention the slight possibility it later turned out that the skinhead in question

[02:01:11] tried to start something with a number of other guys including some of the younger teachers was he suspended? did he face any consequences? of course not he was in the gym teacher's clique he had what's the word I'm looking for here an immunity now as for the hangover

[02:01:31] nothing unusual headache, nausea and light sensitivity I still had to take a train home after having slept on someone's couch it was about half an hour trip so yeah there were a few moments during my prom when I thought fishes hounds from hell would have saved the day

[02:01:49] only I would have trained them to go after guys with very short haircuts and combat boots but I wouldn't train them to kill them I would want them to maybe pee on them or vomit up a hairball on their shaped heads obviously the party culminated

[02:02:05] when the gym teacher's boys took over the stereo put on rage against the machine took off their shirts and took over the dance floor with some manly moves side note Nazi punks and skinheads in Poland listened to the rage against the machine for its aggressive tunes

[02:02:25] but I think they would have stopped immediately after they understood English enough to know what the songs were about anyway I hope everyone else's prom memories were much more pleasant leave and learn things and keep on slaying and peeing on the neo-fascists I could not love this

[02:02:49] voicemail more it's not really a voicemail it's audible production value oh it's wonderful that was one of my favorite things I've ever heard so I'm so happy I can barely express how much I love that and I'm so excited for our listeners to hear it

[02:03:13] because I think we're going to get some fun feedback about it you couldn't see both of us sitting here either grinning or head bobbing or mouthing along just enjoying the tunes that was fantastic hellhounds train to go after neo-nazis sounds so much better than such a good idea

[02:03:37] I love it that's crazy I love all the prom stories that's so much fun yeah it's great I love hearing from our listeners about what their lives were like it's wonderful everyone is so different but also there are these huge areas of similarity yeah it's wonderful

[02:04:03] I love it people who are not in the US and if you didn't have prom I would also love to hear just sort of your impression of what American prom is like what you've seen in tv shows and movies

[02:04:19] what you thought about that when you were a kid that would be fun alright that's the end of the main section of the podcast if you want to you can stay tuned for the washers diaries and here are all the spoilery stuff

[02:04:33] and if you would like to join the conversation you can find all our contact information at podcasttika.com we also put it in the show notes for every episode wherever you're getting your podcast you should be able to read that information yeah you too can produce a voicemail

[02:04:53] with music cues and stuff if you want to or you could just send it a simple message or write to us or answer us on facebook however you want to send them feedback we love hearing from you guys and if you go over to podcasttika.com

[02:05:07] you're going to find links to our social media pages but also all the other great podcasttika podcasts that are going on right now and I just want to give a shout out to a new one on podcasttika which is called Let It Rip and it's covering

[02:05:25] the Hulu show The Bear which I had to try three or four times to get into because the first couple of episodes are really stressful with people yelling at each other but I urge you to try again if you're in the same boat

[02:05:41] because when you get past that the writing and the characters on the show are so honest and and the issues that are being covered are so interesting about interpersonal relationships and the podcast Let It Rip is delightful it's hosted by Lucy and Peter Lucy who

[02:06:03] is one of the hosts of the cast of us and Peter is her partner and they have a really lovely chemistry together and they do a cooking segment which is really fun I love it so much Now I need to push through The Bear

[02:06:21] that sounds wonderful I watched the first episode and my anxiety said nope so I'm gonna That's the experience I had as well but when I went back to it it turned out to be worth it and also House of the Dragon right now the podcast coverage is fantastic

[02:06:37] they go to it's so hard to keep track of all the characters on that show all their names and the different dragons and how old the dragons are and who rides which dragon and the podcast just like they go through all that stuff

[02:06:53] they keep track of it for you and their conversation about what goes on on the show always makes me realize things I didn't realize enjoy things about the show I didn't even notice before it's good fun I feel like the podcastica's Game of Thrones coverage in general

[02:07:13] has always been utterly outstanding it's you know it actually enhances your viewing and understanding of the show and House of the Dragon is no different I don't think I could ever pick up on some of the things that they pick up on like it's so impressive

[02:07:33] how detailed the coverage is I'm still I've only watched the first three episodes of the season and listened to the first three episodes and I might need to do a rewatch because I keep seeing people posting things about the fourth one and having to scroll by really quickly

[02:07:53] but I need more background info I've been going down the rabbit hole listening to Rimen Pake's coverage of Sweet Tooth season 3 over on Strange and Deep so great and I love Sweet Tooth is such an interesting show it's making me want to go back and try to

[02:08:11] get into the comic and explore that a little bit but Rimen Pake do a fantastic job always covering anything but their coverage of Sweet Tooth especially this season for some reason I'm just really loving I loved it before but it's just it's a great one yeah

[02:08:31] I have to agree with you on that and I have to mention welcome to the apocalypse they finished their first season there's 10 episodes so you can go back and binge it if you want to it's not like any other podcast that Podcastica does it's a comedy improv narrative

[02:08:51] it's extremely silly it's so silly I really just think if you like silliness you should check it out you might hear a familiar voice for sure a couple if you've been listening to all of our episodes oh man that is a fun one

[02:09:11] and of course if you like what we do here please give us a 5 star rating in a review a like, a follow and subscribe we always appreciate it and next time tune in because we'll be covering season 3 episode 21 graduation day part 1 and as we talked about earlier

[02:09:31] in honor of the episode we will be sharing some of our own graduation photos along with some of the graduation photos from our previous guest host so please feel free to send in yours as well and let us know if we can share thanks everyone and

[02:09:49] why do I even buy tickets for these things once again the Hellmouth puts the special in special occasion oh eyes I love him alright that is the end of the non-spoiler section and if you want to avoid spoilers now is the time for you to stop listening

[02:10:07] shoo shoo ok those people should be gone now now we can talk about spoilers oh man it's too bad we can't sneak a look at the watcher diaries sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell yeah it's too bad that stuff is private

[02:10:27] also jiles keeps them in his office and his personal files most importantly it would be wrong and one thing that I was thinking about was how mean Buffy was to Angel with the heart comment and then how in the next episode

[02:10:45] she says something else really mean to him too yeah when they bump into each other right before Faith shoots him with the arrow she's like is that what you think of me and she's sort of like it's so hard to talk to it's such a bad that whole

[02:11:01] the timing of that is just awful and freaking Faith poor Angel I hate I hate and when she and Riley break up in season 5 she's mean to him too oh god she is really mean to Riley she's really incons... anyway

[02:11:17] we have plenty of time to talk about Riley but I had to geek out a little bit over the beginnings of Anya and Xander more because they're such a fun couple it's just like they're bickering they're already bickering and they're doing it in such a fun way

[02:11:37] and it's they do such a good job playing off of each other and it just feels so lived in already watching them interact it I don't know what it is it just makes me so happy and it's a perfect way to start

[02:11:55] like I love that they were high school prom dates and Xander gets his own demon experience that doesn't turn up you know she doesn't try to kill him like any of the previous monsters that he has been romantically linked to take his head off

[02:12:11] or suck his youth away good for you Xand and she she's just beautiful and hilarious so she's so funny and then we get revealed in season 6 that she's also like a really good dancer and singer really good oh man that's gonna be a super fun episode

[02:12:37] but I think I don't know I don't think it's a coincidence Xander and Anya kind of getting together with Xander's humanity coming through in one sense like he probably feels a little bit better now that he has a prom date and it's you know and she's pretty so

[02:12:59] you know he's pretty shallow so he's glad that she's like a babe on his arm so he can be nice to the cynical part of me I was like well okay now you're gonna be nice to Cordelia because you're all set you can go be friendly to her

[02:13:13] but the beginning of their relationship just makes me smile I really love Xander and Anya as a couple you know and they're not perfect either you see them go through plenty of issues but oh they fight and bicker and it's ups and downs but it's so worth

[02:13:31] being there for the ride because it's usually hilarious so good and she and Giles relationship ultimately is one of my favorites too yeah they develop a really fun rapport it's pretty great I just I never get over her and I do this all the time

[02:13:47] I do this like under my breath kind of thing when I say something that I don't like I don't have a date to prom the way she delivers is spectacular you can 100% understand why after she had her you know her guest appearance they're like oh maybe we should

[02:14:07] keep bringing this girl back she's good I know in the DVD extras they talk about how around this time they had decided that Cordelia was going to be on Angel and so they needed someone to fill the sort of hole left by Cordelia

[02:14:27] in the group so they needed someone to be like a little bit of comic relief to be love interest for Xander and also to be kind of sharp tongue and a truth teller and Anya is all those things and it's great because she's not you know her character

[02:14:43] is not just some imitation of Cordelia she's very so different fleshed out she's her own person she's you know well yeah she's a person I love how she's like I have these feelings and I don't know what to do with them I really want to go to prom

[02:15:03] it's so cute it's just it makes me I say this every week but it makes me want to like keep watching just to get more into the Anya stuff because she just brings so much life to the show and I I can't wait and then of course

[02:15:25] you know foreshadowing with Wesley and Cordelia finally having a little dance in a little moment which still makes me uncomfortable oh yeah like I understand that she's 18 and it's legal and in real life she is obviously a grown woman but it's so creepy like I just like Wesley

[02:15:57] especially because they never tell us how old Wesley is if he's 23 it's less creepy than if he's 29 or 30 or you know older the way he dresses makes him feel older to me right but he looks and sort of speaks like he's trying to look older there's something about

[02:16:17] the pristiness and the formleness of him that makes me think that he's someone who's like wants to be taken seriously and we do learn about like further on an angel at some point we meet his father and we learn that like

[02:16:35] he's got one of these you're never going to be good enough for me fathers and it really explains why he is like that but he's like always trying to impress people with his like maturity and knowledge and it's never gonna impress the Scooby gang because they're all

[02:16:51] operating in this completely different vibe where it's not about credentials and it's not about you know being like rule following and stuff he gets to have his moments when he goes and joins angel investing I love Wes on Angel it's oh he's great on Angel

[02:17:09] he has a really fun character arc like so many different things happen let's not go there that's true sad the ending the last season of Angel has some wow some big moments it will be fun yeah and um what else was I gonna say

[02:17:33] about Buffy being mean to boyfriend because I think she's also mean when she's like with Spike but she says some really cutting things to Spike like and that there's that particular episode in the future where they make Spike you know

[02:17:53] do something that I think is completely out of character we're gonna talk about that a ton once we get to it but their dynamic is so intense and interesting that I feel like some of the cutting things she says hit harder with him because of that intensity

[02:18:13] cause with Angel you're like oh she's hurt you know she's acting out she's just hurt it gets another level with Spike but sometimes she's mean to Spike like he's her like yeah like she's just he's so in love with her and she kind of on some level

[02:18:31] thinks that he can't be hurt or he's a little bit like he's not real oh yeah he's not a whole person and so she just treats him like the dumping ground for her bad emotions and she recognizes that eventually there's that beautiful scene

[02:18:45] where she's like I'm using you and it's killing me yeah oh gosh but up until that she is so mean to him for Spike oh gosh I cannot wait season 4 has so much Spike yeah there's a lot of really great Spike in season 4 and Pedro Pascal that's true

[02:19:11] Pedro Pascal will be in episode 1 and we can all enjoy that but this episode I do I did want to mention you know you talk about how this episode brings a little bit of levity and light before graduation day parts 1 and 2 because those are some pretty serious episodes

[02:19:31] and it is nice to have a little bit of a palette cleanser a little you know bit of a way to ease into them but I feel like Prom you know it's such a good job setting up Angel's spin-off as well they're so intentional about it

[02:19:49] and it's kind of refreshing to see a spin-off that makes complete sense and it just I'm excited about what's to come and Cordelia we've already seen a lot of growth in her this season and that just continues over on Angel ugh do we see like the

[02:20:13] when they're mentioning all the evil things or the bad things that happen and they throw out Snyder like weird stuff that happens this time when I heard the shouting of Snyder I just immediately pictured him being chomped on by the mayor and I was just like oh

[02:20:31] not for long he'll be gone soon and so will your high school actually it's gonna get blown up very blown up I can't the CGI and the effects in that episode are just mmm yeah we gotta just accept that it was a different time and the snake looks

[02:20:53] bad and it's okay it's gonna be okay we'll get through it but Buffy is kind of campy so it fits it works I think that's it good that's the complete end of our show thank you guys for listening we love our listeners and until next time I'm Penny

[02:21:15] and I'm Kara keep playing I'm not sure what the heck is this the Spider-Man I'm not sure what the heck is this the Spider-Man it's like a real deal snack but what will we call them doggiesnacks noodle saucies sausages new cannolation scrumptious saucy style snacks for dogs music