38: “The Freshman” (BTVS S4E1)

[00:00:00] Hmm?

[00:00:01] Ah!

[00:00:02] Huh...

[00:00:04] Huh...

[00:00:28] Podcastica

[00:00:31] Have you ever read it?

[00:00:33] Oh, I'm not really into porn.

[00:00:35] I mean, I'm just... I'm trying to cut way back.

[00:00:37] No, there's no actual bondage.

[00:00:39] It's just a novel.

[00:00:41] I've read it like 10 times.

[00:00:43] I always keep it by my bed.

[00:00:47] Security blanket.

[00:00:49] We have a security blanket.

[00:00:51] Unless of course you count Mr. Pointy.

[00:00:53] Mr. Pointy?

[00:00:55] Oh, bike path.

[00:00:58] So, it's nice to know that I'm not the only entirely confused person on this campus.

[00:01:02] Yeah, I suspect there's a lot of us.

[00:01:04] Well, I'll look for you in sight.

[00:01:06] Yeah, we can help each other figure out what the hell they're talking about.

[00:01:10] Okay.

[00:01:10] Maybe even make it through the year.

[00:01:13] Good night.

[00:01:14] Good night.

[00:01:45] Welcome to Still Slaying, a Buffy-verse podcast.

[00:01:49] I'm Penny.

[00:01:50] And I'm Cara.

[00:01:51] For this episode, we're going to be discussing the season premiere of season four of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Freshman, directed and written by JW.

[00:02:03] This episode originally aired on October 5th, 1999, and marks Buffy's entrance into the world of college at UC Sunnydale.

[00:02:13] Some alternative titles in other languages for this episode were Welcome New Students in Spanish.

[00:02:20] It's lame.

[00:02:22] And Disappearance on Campus in French.

[00:02:25] Very straightforward.

[00:02:27] So, before we get started, first of all, like we're happy to be back from our hiatus.

[00:02:33] Woohoo!

[00:02:33] I had a great time podcasting about Rings of Power and Agatha all along, but there's no way I could have handled three podcasts at a time.

[00:02:42] I would have lost my mind.

[00:02:45] So, sorry for the interruption in coverage, but I think it was good for everyone.

[00:02:50] And if you haven't listened to those podcasts, Cast of the Rings and the Podcastica Marvel TV cast, I think they went great this season.

[00:03:00] So, go over there and check them out.

[00:03:03] So good.

[00:03:03] I second that.

[00:03:04] Thank you, Cara.

[00:03:05] In the future, this season, we're going to start covering not just Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but the spinoff show Angel, which premiered at the same time as season four, episode one.

[00:03:16] And we're going to go back and forth.

[00:03:19] And there's a specific viewing order.

[00:03:22] It's not always one-to-one.

[00:03:23] So, we're going to put that in the show notes and we're going to have that up on the podcastica.com Facebook page.

[00:03:29] But also, at the end of every episode, we'll say which episode is next.

[00:03:33] So, you can follow along with the viewing order or just watch all the episodes and listen to us indeterminate of when you watch the episodes because that's how I listen to rewatch podcasts.

[00:03:45] I just watch as many episodes as I want, but I listen week to week.

[00:03:48] And we're going to have Jim and Sam who have been great guests in the past joining us for more and more episodes going forward.

[00:03:56] We're diversifying what we call the Slay Squad.

[00:04:03] Although, Kara and I will continue to be the Scooby duo that we have become.

[00:04:09] I love that Scooby duo.

[00:04:11] Yeah, that's us.

[00:04:13] And do some episodes where it's just the two of us.

[00:04:15] And we're going to have fun.

[00:04:18] And remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

[00:04:20] From time to time, we're going to have to take breaks and maybe cover other things.

[00:04:26] But we're all happy to be back.

[00:04:27] And I can't wait to hear from listeners as we get into it.

[00:04:30] I mean, season four has some absolutely fantastic, iconic episodes.

[00:04:35] Oh, yeah.

[00:04:36] I can't wait.

[00:04:37] It's going to be so much fun.

[00:04:39] Yeah.

[00:04:39] And we have a bunch of guests who have wanted, who have like, you know, put their hands up wanting to come on sometime soon and we'll slot them in.

[00:04:47] It's going to be great.

[00:04:48] With that said, let's go back to 1999.

[00:04:55] Oh, 1999.

[00:04:57] Putting together the flashback portion of this episode was so much fun.

[00:05:02] It made me want to go back and listen to every song that was mentioned.

[00:05:07] Because at the time, the number one song in the United States was Heartbreaker by Mariah Carey featuring Jay-Z, who has been in the news recently for not so fun reasons, but that's for another time.

[00:05:21] And the number one song in the UK was Blue, a.k.a. Daba D by Eiffel 65.

[00:05:30] I love that song.

[00:05:31] That song has been stuck in my head ever since I made the agenda.

[00:05:36] It was so catchy.

[00:05:38] It made no sense at the time.

[00:05:41] I remember being confused, but at our like, what was it?

[00:05:46] Our fifth grade end of the year or Christmas party or something, we played it on repeat.

[00:05:52] And I remember my teacher getting really, really mad at us.

[00:05:56] But it was catchy, you know?

[00:05:58] It's so catchy.

[00:05:59] I'm going to have to listen to it as soon as we're done recording.

[00:06:01] I know.

[00:06:02] And then the best selling books at the time on the New York Times bestseller list, number one in fiction, which is what I was reading at the time, is Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban by J.K. Rowling.

[00:06:14] And Tuesdays with Maury by Mitch Albom was still number one at nonfiction, but not for much longer.

[00:06:22] And the U.S. box office at the time, number one is Double Jeopardy.

[00:06:29] Number two was American Beauty.

[00:06:31] And number three was The Sixth Sense.

[00:06:35] And those movies just really epitomized 1999.

[00:06:40] I don't remember Double Jeopardy.

[00:06:42] What is that?

[00:06:43] Oh, my gosh.

[00:06:44] That movie drives me crazy now.

[00:06:45] So it's Ashley Judd.

[00:06:47] She's charged with the murder of her husband, but he fakes his death.

[00:06:54] Oh, right.

[00:06:55] So she can kill him again.

[00:06:57] She learns of this concept, Double Jeopardy, that I remember my Krem Law professor talking about this movie on the first day of class and how much he hated it.

[00:07:08] And now I'm like, yep, I understand.

[00:07:10] And for anybody wondering, that's not how Double Jeopardy works.

[00:07:14] Yeah.

[00:07:14] So the basic concept is you can't be tried twice for the same crime.

[00:07:20] But if it turns out the person they think you murdered wasn't murdered, they vacate the first judgment.

[00:07:29] Yeah.

[00:07:29] And they will try you for the actual murder if you do it.

[00:07:34] Yeah.

[00:07:34] And each time with a crime, there are certain there are basic elements you have to prove.

[00:07:39] And one of those elements, fun fact, is the date on which the crime occurred.

[00:07:45] So if you're charged with murdering someone on, say, December 15th.

[00:07:52] And they don't, it turns out they're not actually dead.

[00:07:55] And then you can be charged with murdering them on, say, February 15th.

[00:08:00] But anyway, that's a whole other issue.

[00:08:05] But American Beauty is...

[00:08:08] And that movie is iconic.

[00:08:10] And it was, it dominated like conversation and the visual language of the 90s.

[00:08:17] That scene of Mina Suvari in the rose petals.

[00:08:22] Yep.

[00:08:23] And the whole like plastic bag floating around in the wind thing.

[00:08:28] Yes!

[00:08:28] I think this is the movie where Kevin Spacey really like went from some people know him as a great character actor to everybody's talking about how great Kevin Spacey is.

[00:08:40] Now, since then, we've learned some things about Kevin Spacey that make it awkward to talk about how great of an actor he is.

[00:08:47] But the truth is, he is a great actor.

[00:08:49] He's just apparently also a reprehensible person.

[00:08:54] Is it not another teen movie where they spoof the plastic bag floating in the wind scene?

[00:09:00] I don't know.

[00:09:01] I've never seen any of those.

[00:09:02] Oh my gosh.

[00:09:03] That's all I remember.

[00:09:04] I think that's all I remember from that movie.

[00:09:07] And then of course, The Sixth Sense is the reason why I was scared to go in my kitchen from like 12 to 15 at night.

[00:09:16] That movie scared the hell out of me when I should not have seen it in 1999.

[00:09:21] No, you were way too young.

[00:09:23] I remember, so cell phones were still like kind of rare and new in 99.

[00:09:30] Yeah.

[00:09:30] And I saw The Sixth Sense in the theater.

[00:09:34] I went like in the middle of the day, you know, between classes by myself.

[00:09:39] There's like two other people in the theater.

[00:09:43] Oh my gosh.

[00:09:43] And which is my favorite way to see a movie, by the way.

[00:09:46] I love it.

[00:09:47] I love like how quiet and chill it is.

[00:09:50] And this movie is so suspenseful, right?

[00:09:52] There's so many quiet, scary moments.

[00:09:54] And I was really into it.

[00:09:55] And the woman sitting near me, her cell phone rang.

[00:09:59] And she answered it.

[00:10:02] And she goes, oh no, I can't talk.

[00:10:04] I'm at a movie.

[00:10:05] No, I'm in the movie.

[00:10:06] I'm in the movie.

[00:10:07] I was like, oh, I cannot believe you answered it.

[00:10:11] And that we all have to listen to you explain to someone that you're like, this is the rudest

[00:10:16] thing ever.

[00:10:16] It's so funny that that is what stands out.

[00:10:19] Oh, you remember that still.

[00:10:21] I was fear.

[00:10:23] I am a particularly like rigid person when it comes to talking in movies.

[00:10:28] I, I hate it.

[00:10:29] And I really hate when people get their phone out.

[00:10:33] And I know that you think when you're sitting in your seat and you have it on your lap, that

[00:10:37] you're not bothering anyone with it.

[00:10:38] But the light is bothering everyone sitting behind you.

[00:10:42] We can all see it.

[00:10:43] Yep.

[00:10:44] Especially today.

[00:10:45] Phone screens are so big and bright.

[00:10:49] It's just like, huh?

[00:10:50] It's like a little beacon in the middle of the theater.

[00:10:53] So if you are one of these people who uses your phone during a movie, sit in the back row.

[00:11:00] Don't sit by Penny.

[00:11:02] Don't sit by being.

[00:11:03] I, oh, I will be furious and I will probably say something really mean to you about it.

[00:11:09] Actually, no, I will think something at you that's really mean and say nothing.

[00:11:14] So yeah, that's fine.

[00:11:17] But anyway, it is an iconic movie and it, it burst onto the scene.

[00:11:22] Everybody was talking about the sixth sense.

[00:11:24] Everybody.

[00:11:25] Now it's like, if you haven't seen it, people are like, you haven't seen the sixth sense.

[00:11:30] Oh yeah.

[00:11:31] And it's famous for having some twists and turns that most people don't see coming.

[00:11:37] And, and it brought us M. Night Shyamalan's career, for better or worse.

[00:11:44] This might be my favorite.

[00:11:46] Did I say that right?

[00:11:46] M. Night Shyamalan.

[00:11:48] M. Night Shyamalan.

[00:11:49] I think this might be my favorite M. Night Shyamalan movie.

[00:11:53] It's most people's.

[00:11:53] Now that I'm thinking about it, you know?

[00:11:55] Because it's the only one that really makes a whole lot of sense.

[00:11:58] That's also very true.

[00:12:00] That's also very true.

[00:12:02] And, you know, in fifth grade, I was probably not that hard to impress when it comes to movies.

[00:12:08] No, I was, I was.

[00:12:10] It holds up though.

[00:12:11] So I was impressed with it.

[00:12:13] The whole, like really impressed with it.

[00:12:15] It was fantastic.

[00:12:16] Um, on this day, October 5th, 99, the Ladbroke Grove rail crash in West London killed 31 people.

[00:12:26] Awful.

[00:12:26] Also during the same week on October 2nd, number 21 University of Alabama football team beats number three Florida 40 to 39 in a huge overtime upset to snap the Gators 30 game home winning streak.

[00:12:42] Future Seattle Seahawks running back Sean Alexander crosses for four touchdowns for the Crimson Tide.

[00:12:49] So I am not a big sports fan.

[00:12:51] I take it.

[00:12:52] This is like one of those games that people all remember and talk about.

[00:12:54] I somehow remember this game.

[00:12:57] My dad was watching it and screaming.

[00:13:01] And I mean, it, the fact that a number 21 team beat a number three team is.

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:07] And that 40 to 39.

[00:13:09] That's so close.

[00:13:10] Like.

[00:13:10] Oh yeah.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:12] I understand why it would be exciting.

[00:13:14] I just didn't.

[00:13:16] Uh, on October 3rd, the St.

[00:13:18] Louis Cardinals first baseman, Mark McGuire hits his 65th Homer of the season.

[00:13:24] In a rain shortened nine to five win over the Chicago Cubs at Bush stadium.

[00:13:29] This clinches McGuire's second straight home run title over Sammy Sosa of the Cubs who hits his 63rd home run in the same game.

[00:13:38] So is that something you paid attention to the McGuire Sosa home run race?

[00:13:43] I don't know.

[00:13:44] Paid attention is the right word.

[00:13:46] It was inescapable.

[00:13:48] It was every time you like looked at a newspaper or television show or anything like somebody would mention it.

[00:13:54] Yeah.

[00:13:54] And everybody was talking about it because they went back and forth, right?

[00:13:57] It was like, one of them was the head home run.

[00:14:00] Then the other one, then the other one, they called it like the slug.

[00:14:04] Slug off.

[00:14:05] Yep.

[00:14:05] It had a name.

[00:14:06] Sane.

[00:14:07] I, you know, if people aren't familiar with what we're talking about in the summer, particularly of 99, McGuire and Sammy Sosa were basically vying to break Roger Maris's single season home run record that stood at 61 home runs.

[00:14:25] And it had been in place since the 1961 season.

[00:14:29] And I am a huge baseball nerd.

[00:14:32] And I remember that summer, anytime either the Cardinals or the Cubs were in Houston, we had to go and see if, you know, McGuire Sosa would hit a home run.

[00:14:41] And my brother and I, after this season, there was some special about it released on VHS.

[00:14:48] And we watched it so much that the tape got worn out.

[00:14:53] So this was a very important time for fifth grade me.

[00:14:59] And there were a lot of conversations going on around it about use of steroids and yes, and doping in baseball and fairness and things like that.

[00:15:11] If you ever feel like checking it out, Google Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa at the beginning of their careers and in 1999 and see how much their bodies change.

[00:15:24] Yeah, it's quite interesting.

[00:15:26] Yeah.

[00:15:26] Anyway, there were a lot of people.

[00:15:28] This is not a baseball podcast.

[00:15:29] But there were a lot of people at the time I remember being like, I don't really care if baseball players use steroids as long as it's like whoever wants to uses them and then everybody's on them.

[00:15:40] And then the game just gets more exciting in general.

[00:15:43] And I was like, yeah, I kind of see your point.

[00:15:45] If steroids weren't so harmful to your health, then like, sure, like I want to see basically superhero athletes.

[00:15:56] But it's the influence on young kids and young athletes thinking that they have to use steroids or HGH to even be competitive.

[00:16:08] But it's certainly they paid the consequences ultimately for that.

[00:16:15] Yeah.

[00:16:18] God, this is a huge one.

[00:16:19] All right.

[00:16:20] On October 4th, 99, the single Breathe by Faith Hill is released.

[00:16:24] It would go on to become the Billboard song of the year for the year 2000 and to be played at school dances everywhere and every wedding I went to in the 2000s and on the radio constantly everywhere you went.

[00:16:39] This song was so big and beautiful.

[00:16:43] And everybody was in love with Faith Hill.

[00:16:45] She was like America's sweetheart for a little while there.

[00:16:48] And oh, my God, this song.

[00:16:51] I forgot about it until I read the agenda and I was like, oh, right.

[00:16:55] That's like the defining song.

[00:16:58] Seriously.

[00:16:58] I went to so many weddings between 99 and 2004.

[00:17:03] It was like that was the age when my friends got married.

[00:17:06] And that song was at every wedding.

[00:17:09] I can't imagine.

[00:17:09] I think I had my first slow dance to this song in sixth grade.

[00:17:15] So that's a fun one.

[00:17:18] That's really cute.

[00:17:20] My first slow dance was to Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin.

[00:17:23] And that's fantastic.

[00:17:25] Oh, no, it's not.

[00:17:26] That's very my high school or my middle school both.

[00:17:30] But it's a really awkward song for a slow dance because there's like a kind of fast part in the middle.

[00:17:37] The guitarist.

[00:17:38] You're like, what do we do?

[00:17:39] And you sort of stop slow dancing and fast dance.

[00:17:42] And then you're like, oh, now we slow dance again.

[00:17:44] It's really awkward, especially when you're a teenager and you don't know what anything is.

[00:17:49] That's so funny.

[00:17:50] Oh, gosh.

[00:17:52] On October 7th, 1999.

[00:17:55] Ugh.

[00:17:57] The Cheeto, at the time known primarily as a real estate tycoon, announced that he was considering a presidential run and forming an exploratory committee.

[00:18:08] He indicated he would enter the race for the Reform Party's nomination.

[00:18:13] And if you don't know who I'm talking about when I say the Cheeto, I'm surprised you listen to this podcast.

[00:18:19] All right.

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:21] On October 8th, a year after former Chilean dictator's arrest in London.

[00:18:26] God, this was huge news in the 90s.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:28] Oh, I forgot to put his name.

[00:18:30] Spain's request for his extradition.

[00:18:30] You mean Pinochet?

[00:18:31] Pinochet.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:32] Yeah.

[00:18:33] Which is interesting, given the guest star in this episode.

[00:18:38] I know.

[00:18:38] Because he had to flee Chile because of Pinochet.

[00:18:43] Spain's request for his extradition on charges of torture continues to move through the British legal system.

[00:18:49] This was in the paper like every day, like the legal machinations and arguments on both sides.

[00:18:56] And as a law student at the time studying like international legal systems, it was fascinating.

[00:19:02] Just fascinating to listen to.

[00:19:04] I didn't ever want to go into this kind of law, but it was like, I guess for what other people is like watching sports.

[00:19:12] I was like, oh, I'm on Team Spain.

[00:19:14] Let's see what happens.

[00:19:16] Yeah.

[00:19:17] That's how I felt, I think, following the litigation in the Supreme Court against the Westboro Baptist Church.

[00:19:24] Yeah, that's a good one.

[00:19:26] Yeah, that was, I was hooked.

[00:19:28] At this time, I think there was also some European prosecution of Microsoft for antitrust violations.

[00:19:39] And I was taking, wait, what year is this?

[00:19:42] 99.

[00:19:43] Yeah, I was taking antitrust law that semester and obsessed with antitrust law.

[00:19:47] And the Microsoft case was like working its way through the EU system.

[00:19:51] And I was like, they've got it coming.

[00:19:55] I think monopolies and the failure of our government and many world governments to persecute monopolization and unfair trade practices has gotten us to the situation we're in now.

[00:20:11] And I think that's a good one.

[00:20:13] Yeah.

[00:20:14] That actually reminds me, I just want to say something about politics, and not in the specific, but in the general, that sometimes my political views and Kara's political views come through in our conversation.

[00:20:32] Sometimes the show has things happening that just read on politics.

[00:20:39] And this has been true of every show I've podcasted about.

[00:20:43] Also, as a feminist, I feel like I can't remove feminism from the way I look at any television show or movie.

[00:20:53] If you don't like my politics and that bothers you, I'm not going to stop.

[00:20:58] I can't stop.

[00:20:59] It's part of who I am.

[00:21:01] So this is probably not the podcast for you.

[00:21:04] I know we got a review way back when about, I can't, we were, what was it?

[00:21:10] We were too man-hatey or something.

[00:21:12] Yeah.

[00:21:13] And the person was clearly not who they said they were in their, in their review.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:18] They, yeah, they just didn't like us.

[00:21:20] I was just like, I think we were actually talking about that.

[00:21:23] I think it was race.

[00:21:25] I think they were like, yeah, you have to bring race into everything.

[00:21:28] And I'm like, it's not everything, but sometimes I was like, but it was particularly relevant in that episode.

[00:21:32] Anyway, I'm not going to like take my, my, you know, my film degree, which was all about analyzing media for its, you know, its messages about the human condition and society and like put that aside so that I don't offend somebody.

[00:21:49] Like, it's just not, I can't do it.

[00:21:51] It's not who I am.

[00:21:52] It reminds me of the people right now, you know, at this time, Wicked came out recently and people getting frustrated that others are quote unquote making Wicked political.

[00:22:04] It's like, it's always been political.

[00:22:07] I was like, so is the Wizard of Oz.

[00:22:09] Fun fact.

[00:22:10] But anyway, it's just.

[00:22:11] Anti-fascism is a huge part of the Wizard of Oz and Wicked.

[00:22:16] Wicked.

[00:22:17] And it doesn't, it didn't start with the movie.

[00:22:19] It was in the play and it was in the book.

[00:22:21] So, you know, if you think somebody recently made Wicked political, I don't know what to tell you about your past viewing of the play.

[00:22:32] Like when you weren't apparently in the right theater.

[00:22:35] And TV shows are art and art is inherently political by nature.

[00:22:41] So here we are.

[00:22:42] This is going to inevitably come up during our coverage of the podcast.

[00:22:46] And I know Jim and Sam, our co-hosts who will be joining us in future episodes, do not feel any differently.

[00:22:53] So.

[00:22:54] Exactly.

[00:22:55] You're warned.

[00:22:55] And you know what?

[00:22:57] If something that we say you disagree with, but you want to make your point, like write to us or call us and we'll engage with you on it.

[00:23:07] Like that's actually really interesting.

[00:23:10] Yeah.

[00:23:10] I'd love to hear somebody refute the substance rather than being like, I don't want you to talk about politics.

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:18] Keeping an open mind and open dialogue is beneficial sometimes.

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:23] And for the most part, I'd like to stick to sort of political ideas and theory and not get into like nitty gritty details about current day.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:34] Like monopolies are bad.

[00:23:37] All right.

[00:23:40] Oh, geez.

[00:23:42] That said, let's get into it because this episode is really light and fun.

[00:23:49] Yeah.

[00:23:49] And such a great way to dive back into this fantastic series and revisit, you know, these characters that we love so much.

[00:24:00] So you'll notice that we don't have Cordelia anymore.

[00:24:05] She's going to show up later on Angel.

[00:24:08] And it's just the core Scoobies and we meet some new characters.

[00:24:14] Very interesting.

[00:24:15] Yeah.

[00:24:16] So let's see.

[00:24:18] We meet Eddie played by the absolutely fantastic, beloved internet daddy of Pedro Pascal that we all love so much.

[00:24:29] And I pulled out a little sound clip.

[00:24:33] Poor Eddie.

[00:24:37] Oh, wow.

[00:24:40] Sorry.

[00:24:40] No, I wasn't looking.

[00:24:43] Did you lose your way?

[00:24:46] Me?

[00:24:47] Oh, no, no.

[00:24:48] I'm just going to Fisher Hall, which I know is on the Earth planet.

[00:24:54] Recently voted most pathetic.

[00:24:56] Uh huh.

[00:24:56] Well, I'm lost and I have a map.

[00:24:59] So.

[00:24:59] Oh, I come in second.

[00:25:02] I'm Buffy, by the way.

[00:25:03] Eddie.

[00:25:04] Okay.

[00:25:04] So cute.

[00:25:05] That scene is so adorable.

[00:25:08] Like, first of all, which I know is on the Earth planet is so cute and so Buffy.

[00:25:13] And he's like, I have a map.

[00:25:15] And he's so dorky.

[00:25:17] He's wearing.

[00:25:17] Is he wearing like a members only jacket?

[00:25:20] It's so cute.

[00:25:21] It looks like it.

[00:25:22] Which is funny.

[00:25:24] That's very retro in 99.

[00:25:26] That wasn't.

[00:25:26] I don't know when those came back, but I think they weren't back yet.

[00:25:29] I think that was ahead of its time.

[00:25:31] And it's so funny because he looks so different.

[00:25:34] He's so young and no beard.

[00:25:37] And, you know, more recent Pedro Pascal roles.

[00:25:40] He's always either scruffy or like super slick.

[00:25:45] Yeah.

[00:25:46] You know, this like dorky college student version of Pedro Pascal.

[00:25:49] I don't think we've ever seen that anywhere else.

[00:25:51] No, I didn't recognize him maybe until a rewatch a couple years ago.

[00:25:57] And it was the voice that did it.

[00:25:59] I was watching.

[00:26:00] I had it on in the background while I was doing dishes.

[00:26:02] And I remember hearing the voice.

[00:26:03] I was like, hold on.

[00:26:05] And I looked.

[00:26:05] I was like, oh my gosh, he looks like a baby.

[00:26:08] Yeah, he is a little baby.

[00:26:10] And he has said in interviews and stuff that that Buffy the Vampire Slayer kept him from being homeless, that the residuals checks that he got for this one appearance were like sometimes the only way he was able to make rent for a few years, though.

[00:26:27] It's so funny to think of him being like a struggling actor because he's such a huge star now.

[00:26:34] I just saw Gladiator 2.

[00:26:38] And his role in that is not what I thought it was going to be going in.

[00:26:42] I did the thing I always do, which is I didn't see any trailers for that movie.

[00:26:46] I just like just went to it.

[00:26:49] And so in my head, I expected like the three actors that I knew him, Joseph Quinn and Paul Muscal and even Denzel Washington.

[00:26:59] I sort of expected them all.

[00:27:01] I had ideas about what their characters would be.

[00:27:04] And with one exception, I was 100% wrong.

[00:27:09] The movie is really beautifully made.

[00:27:11] It's a real spectacle.

[00:27:13] And I would say.

[00:27:14] I need to go.

[00:27:15] Yeah, it's really cool.

[00:27:18] I mean, it's a it's definitely a glorification of violence.

[00:27:22] It's definitely a very violent movie, but it's still really, really entertaining and beautiful and well made.

[00:27:29] And I think there's going to be a third one.

[00:27:32] Oh, yeah.

[00:27:33] That's fun.

[00:27:34] Anyway, so Pedro Pascal, we meet Eddie and then Buffy also meets, you know, some new professors.

[00:27:41] Meet her intro to psych professor Maggie Walsh.

[00:27:45] She's the only professor we get a name of.

[00:27:46] So we know she's a character we have to follow.

[00:27:49] T.A. Riley, who in the bookstore scene is wearing the most boring outfit I've ever seen.

[00:27:57] But I mean, that's kind of Riley.

[00:28:00] Exactly.

[00:28:00] I was like, oh, look how they trust Riley to tell you not to pay attention to him.

[00:28:05] Yeah.

[00:28:06] But whenever you learn a character's name, that's how you know you have to pay attention going forward.

[00:28:10] And he's just this good old boy from, you know, corn fed from Iowa.

[00:28:15] Yeah, he's very cute.

[00:28:18] And and we'll see more of him.

[00:28:22] And we meet Kathy Buffy.

[00:28:24] I love Kathy.

[00:28:27] Oh, my gosh.

[00:28:28] She is so special.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:31] Oh, I'm so glad they put me with somebody cool.

[00:28:33] I can tell you're cool.

[00:28:35] I can just tell you're so much fun.

[00:28:37] Unfurling a Celine Dion poster.

[00:28:40] Yeah.

[00:28:40] And the look on Buffy's face is like, what have I done?

[00:28:45] Don't say anything.

[00:28:46] Don't say anything.

[00:28:49] Yeah.

[00:28:50] Kathy has a great moment later, too, when they're all in Buffy's room trying to figure out where she is.

[00:28:54] And Kathy's like, I specifically said stable non-smoker.

[00:28:58] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:00] Oh, it really brought the early parts of college back to me, especially that filling out the roommate form.

[00:29:07] Oh, gosh.

[00:29:08] I put hours into the roommate form.

[00:29:12] Like, I thought so deeply about what I wanted in a roommate and how, you know, how, how that relationship would be.

[00:29:20] And then I got assigned a single.

[00:29:22] And I always thought like they were like, nobody can live with this girl.

[00:29:25] Like.

[00:29:28] Terrible.

[00:29:29] Oh, I wish I could have had a single, but mine worked out okay.

[00:29:32] It wasn't too bad.

[00:29:34] Yeah.

[00:29:34] There's pluses and minuses to having a single.

[00:29:37] The first few weeks of school, it was a little bit like, I don't even know who to start to hang out with.

[00:29:43] You know?

[00:29:43] Yeah.

[00:29:43] Because your roommate is like your default buddy if you don't know anyone else.

[00:29:47] Definitely.

[00:29:47] But I saw enough roommate disaster pairings to be real happy to have a single after that.

[00:29:54] Yeah.

[00:29:55] That's fair.

[00:29:56] Yeah.

[00:29:56] This is such a good episode at capturing kind of the struggles of adjusting to college life.

[00:30:05] Like the entire episode, there's, you know, that ongoing theme of the unfamiliar and the unknown and Buffy's discomfort.

[00:30:15] Poor Buffy.

[00:30:16] It's like everything that could go wrong does go wrong for her.

[00:30:20] Did you lose your way?

[00:30:21] Right.

[00:30:21] Eddie says it to her and Sunday says it to Eddie.

[00:30:24] And, and Buffy has kind of lost her way at first.

[00:30:28] She's, she's insecure about starting college and it's all, it is big and overwhelming.

[00:30:35] I mean that walk through the, the, through the plaza or the quad or whatever that was where everyone's yelling and handing out flyers.

[00:30:41] So stressful.

[00:30:42] Yeah.

[00:30:43] And I was like, Oh God, I remember that feeling of like, I can't possibly do 37 extracurricular activities,

[00:30:50] but everyone seems to think that I should, you know?

[00:30:53] Yeah.

[00:30:54] And all the parties immediately, the creepy guy, like free Joe shots for freshmen women gave me some really horrible flashbacks.

[00:31:05] I was like, Oh no, run away Buffy.

[00:31:07] Yeah.

[00:31:08] Run away.

[00:31:09] Although of anyone, well, Buffy's already been to a frat party like that.

[00:31:13] That's true.

[00:31:14] That went so well.

[00:31:16] Yeah.

[00:31:16] So I'm, I'm sure she knows better than to take a drink from a college boy that she doesn't know.

[00:31:22] Uh, after that experience.

[00:31:25] Um, but, uh, I love what that Willow is so on top of everything.

[00:31:31] Cause yeah, I remember those people who were like, it's like, have you done this before?

[00:31:37] How do you know how to do all this stuff already?

[00:31:41] Right.

[00:31:41] And it's such a nice contrast, right.

[00:31:44] To Buffy kind of floundering to the point where, you know, classes aren't quite going her way.

[00:31:51] Her roommate is questionable.

[00:31:54] She's, you know, Giles is even unfamiliar and not as focused on her anymore.

[00:32:00] And even her slang game is kind of off.

[00:32:04] Yeah.

[00:32:04] Poor Joyce putting all these crates in Buffy's room.

[00:32:08] And then Buffy watches Willow and Oz seemingly adapting without any issues.

[00:32:15] And she must've felt, you know, so isolated in that moment.

[00:32:20] I think everyone who went to college, even without going to college, being in a new situation,

[00:32:26] a new social situation and having to adjust can relate to this episode.

[00:32:31] Yeah.

[00:32:31] Because.

[00:32:32] It's overwhelming.

[00:32:34] When you go somewhere new and you don't know what to expect and other people do seem to be fitting in that.

[00:32:44] Like if Willow had also been like, yeah, it's so overwhelming.

[00:32:47] Buffy would have been a lot happier and felt more confident.

[00:32:52] I think the added layer of, but it's so easy for some other people was making it worse for her.

[00:32:58] Like she's like, maybe the only thing I'm good at is slang.

[00:33:02] And then.

[00:33:04] To lose a fight and have to run.

[00:33:07] Yeah.

[00:33:07] She took a real hit to herself.

[00:33:09] Kind of like with her tail in between her legs running away.

[00:33:13] And she, she even looks to Willow for that, you know, kind of camaraderie of being overwhelmed.

[00:33:20] When they find each other during the openings flyer scene.

[00:33:25] And it's like, Willow cuts Buffy off and talks about how amazing it is that there are so many flyers and activities.

[00:33:34] And Buffy makes that comment.

[00:33:36] She's like, you know, some would say a little too much, like there's a little too much going on.

[00:33:42] And Willow is just like through the roof about all of these causes that she now cares deeply about.

[00:33:49] And I will say, I will say that Buffy and Willow talking about the flyers that they got.

[00:34:01] And Buffy bringing up jello shots.

[00:34:04] And then Willow says, you know, I'll trade you for a take back the night flyer.

[00:34:10] I was like, of course this was written by Joss.

[00:34:13] Yeah.

[00:34:13] Like that was so icky to me.

[00:34:17] I was like, great.

[00:34:18] Cool.

[00:34:19] Good job, Joss.

[00:34:20] And I think another, the cold open to this episode we didn't really talk about.

[00:34:27] Oh, where they're talking about their classes.

[00:34:29] Yes.

[00:34:30] And she's like, Buffy and Willow are both blissfully unaware of the vampire waking up behind them.

[00:34:38] Meanwhile, talking about, you know, staying on top of things and paying attention.

[00:34:43] I love that we see this guy see all of the slayer weapons sitting next to them and actually make the choice to just walk away.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:53] He's like, oh, he's smart.

[00:34:55] Yeah.

[00:34:55] That's like one of the smartest vampires that the show's ever had to be like, that person looks dangerous to me.

[00:35:02] I'll just go the other direction.

[00:35:06] Smart guy.

[00:35:07] I loved that.

[00:35:08] And then for a minute, I thought he was the same.

[00:35:11] He was one of Sunday's lackeys, but it's not.

[00:35:15] It's a completely different vampire.

[00:35:16] I was like, oh, look, he did make a smart choice, but no.

[00:35:22] I love when Buffy's like the modern novel.

[00:35:25] So I'd have to read the modern novel.

[00:35:27] Yeah.

[00:35:29] The reading load in college was intense.

[00:35:32] Gosh.

[00:35:32] And I did not pursue an English major because I was like, I don't think I can keep up with the reading.

[00:35:40] Like there's so much reading for English majors and philosophy majors and history majors.

[00:35:45] I was like, it's.

[00:35:46] Oh, yeah.

[00:35:46] It's just too much reading.

[00:35:48] And I am a reader.

[00:35:49] I love reading.

[00:35:50] But.

[00:35:51] Yeah.

[00:35:53] I was like, I'll never.

[00:35:54] It's like all I did in college.

[00:35:56] I did, you know, cause I was English and political science.

[00:35:59] So all I did was read and write papers.

[00:36:01] Yeah.

[00:36:03] But I loved that.

[00:36:05] That was my, I played to my strengths.

[00:36:07] Thankfully.

[00:36:08] And I took geology one Oh one in addition to psych.

[00:36:13] When she said that I was like, Hey.

[00:36:16] Yeah.

[00:36:17] I think people are kind of mean about geology.

[00:36:21] Like.

[00:36:22] I know it's the bunt of the joke in a lot of TV shows like, oh, that rocks for jocks and stuff like that.

[00:36:28] But.

[00:36:29] Yeah.

[00:36:30] It's actually really fascinating science.

[00:36:32] It is.

[00:36:32] Once you get past the like initial parts of it, you get into like how the earth was actually like created.

[00:36:39] And.

[00:36:41] Yep.

[00:36:41] I find it fascinating.

[00:36:42] I have a friend who has a geology podcast called geology bites.

[00:36:46] And every now and then I listened to it, even though I don't understand most of what he's saying.

[00:36:50] I'm like, oh, so interesting.

[00:36:53] He takes the most interesting trips.

[00:36:55] He's always like, oh, I'm going to the mountains of Peru to look at this deposit of ore that's unusual.

[00:37:02] I'm like, what?

[00:37:03] What?

[00:37:04] That's fun.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:06] Really interesting.

[00:37:07] I love it.

[00:37:08] All right.

[00:37:08] So Buffy gets to college.

[00:37:10] They have the whole conversation about the library.

[00:37:12] I love that scene because that library has been in so many movies and TV shows.

[00:37:17] I know.

[00:37:17] I was like, oh, I've been in this room so many times.

[00:37:20] It's UC San Diego is where they film UC Sunnydale, I think.

[00:37:24] And that library, I specifically remember it being in Teen Wolf 2 with Jason Bateman.

[00:37:30] Oh, my gosh.

[00:37:31] That's right.

[00:37:32] But it's been in a bunch of movies, like a lot of movies that are set at a college.

[00:37:36] You'll be like, there it is again.

[00:37:37] Like it's that ceiling is so distinctive.

[00:37:40] I do love that quip when they walk in like Willow is in awe and Buffy says, you know, this is a great place.

[00:37:48] This is great if we ever need a place for the Nuremberg rallies.

[00:37:52] And I love that line.

[00:37:54] But at the same time, like it's very intelligent as Woody.

[00:37:57] And then this is the same Buffy who later on, when Xander says reconnaissance, confuses it with the Renaissance.

[00:38:06] Yeah.

[00:38:07] She's like, Buffy, come on.

[00:38:09] Although she does, to be fair, she's like, it's been a long week.

[00:38:13] It's been a really hard week.

[00:38:15] That is one of my favorite Buffy Xander moments, actually, because usually Xander's the one who's like, kind of a dope.

[00:38:24] And it's just part and parcel of Buffy just being off her game this week.

[00:38:28] That she's like, the rest when people paint and sculpt and stuff.

[00:38:32] And he's like, the look on his face is like, who are you?

[00:38:36] What did you do with Buffy?

[00:38:38] It's so cute.

[00:38:39] Xander does, you know, Xander kind of saves the day.

[00:38:43] Yeah, he really comes through.

[00:38:45] He builds her up.

[00:38:47] First of all, he totally validates her and is like, yeah, let's, what does he say?

[00:38:52] Let's Avengers with the assembling or something like that.

[00:38:55] Hell yeah.

[00:38:55] Like, he's like, yeah, let's do it.

[00:38:57] Because he's not going to college, right?

[00:38:59] So he's not distracted and overwhelmed and subsumed into this college world.

[00:39:04] And so he's ready to pick up where they left off.

[00:39:07] I don't know what to make of his whole, I spent the summer washing dishes at a strip club story.

[00:39:13] I know.

[00:39:14] And the fact that he stripped one night apparently and will never tell anyone about it, except he told her about it.

[00:39:19] So he clearly wants people to know.

[00:39:20] Yeah.

[00:39:21] I don't know what to make of that story.

[00:39:23] I'm like, I'm going to pretend it didn't happen.

[00:39:26] That's the, and I like his line, you know, where he's kind of restoring her confidence a bit and says, you know, if I'm all alone and I'm scared or freaked out, I think what would Buffy do?

[00:39:39] You're my hero.

[00:39:40] And I'm like, oh, sweet.

[00:39:41] And then it's immediately followed up with his creepy ass line about, you know, and sometimes, okay, sometimes when it's dark and I'm all alone, I think what is Buffy wearing?

[00:39:50] I was like, all right, man, it did kind of remind me of like a Chandler Bing-esque humor as a defense mechanism.

[00:40:00] Like, okay, we're getting a little serious here.

[00:40:03] I need to lighten the mood.

[00:40:06] I was like, come on, man.

[00:40:07] It's just so sad to find a way to sexually objectify Buffy.

[00:40:10] And she's like, can that be something you never, ever tell me about?

[00:40:14] And I feel like that is something I have said to guy friends before.

[00:40:18] Like, you know what?

[00:40:19] We don't need to share everything.

[00:40:21] That's a thing I don't need to talk to you about.

[00:40:24] That does not need to come out of your mouth.

[00:40:27] I never need to know about that.

[00:40:29] You can just, like, I've had friends who've dated other friends of mine and tried to tell me things about the friend that they knew because they dated them.

[00:40:38] And I'm like, I don't want to know.

[00:40:39] I really don't.

[00:40:42] Like, that's information that's going to really alter my friendship with the other person.

[00:40:46] I, mm-mm.

[00:40:48] Don't tell me.

[00:40:49] Yeah.

[00:40:50] And with poor Xander, like, Buffy has already heard the thoughts in his head.

[00:40:55] She knows exactly where that was going.

[00:40:59] And he's, he's said stuff like this all along.

[00:41:02] So, you know, and he, he does a good job of sort of passing that stuff off as a joke, but the consistency of it is creepy.

[00:41:09] Yeah.

[00:41:09] And I don't know if this were not a TV show, if, if I had a friend who consistently said stuff like that about, like, to me, who I wasn't interested in in return, I don't know if we'd still be such good friends.

[00:41:21] It made me realize how many guy friends I had like that in middle school, high school, college, like, almost every close guy friend I had, I can think of saying something sexualizing or kind of off in that way.

[00:41:39] And I remember growing up thinking that was normal.

[00:41:44] Yeah.

[00:41:44] And now.

[00:41:45] Well, because it was portrayed everywhere around us in media.

[00:41:48] That's just like, that was just like guy humor.

[00:41:51] That's true.

[00:41:52] And I, times are changing and this is one of the ways that the show is dated is I don't think Xander as a character could be in a 2024 show.

[00:42:01] That's true.

[00:42:02] They would have to change a lot of his, like, behavior towards women.

[00:42:07] Like if a platonic male friend said that to me now, it would be an entirely different story.

[00:42:15] Like, mm, mm, mm.

[00:42:17] Yeah.

[00:42:17] Nope.

[00:42:18] Gross.

[00:42:19] Oh, Xander.

[00:42:20] Yeah.

[00:42:21] Xander.

[00:42:22] Xander, Xander, Xander.

[00:42:23] But good job on building up your friend and giving her support.

[00:42:27] Yeah.

[00:42:27] And I love that they do the research by like breaking into some office.

[00:42:32] Like, there's such little criminals when they need to be.

[00:42:35] And I'm so there for it.

[00:42:37] And, uh, the scene where she's talking about kids disappearing and he's like, what year?

[00:42:42] And, and then he's like magic number.

[00:42:44] And they have the article.

[00:42:45] I love that scene.

[00:42:46] I'm like, I love it when the research comes together, but there's a part of me.

[00:42:51] They got their flow back.

[00:42:52] Yeah.

[00:42:52] There's a part of me also that can't help being like, it's so convenient how things are summarized

[00:42:57] for them when they do their research.

[00:42:59] She's like, oh, there's not very many disappearances before 82.

[00:43:03] Like you looked before 82, did you?

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:06] Um, it's, it's just, it's TV magic.

[00:43:09] That's how it works.

[00:43:10] But every now and then there's a part of me that's like, you know, like, I feel like

[00:43:14] a real nerd when I do that.

[00:43:16] Like, that's not how it would really go.

[00:43:18] That's easy to do in some of these college episodes where it's like, apparently there's

[00:43:23] only one professor that teaches psych 101 and only one class.

[00:43:28] Like, it's just little things like that suspension of disbelief.

[00:43:32] Yeah.

[00:43:32] I ignore it.

[00:43:33] The campus is like conveniently huge and tiny depending on the story needs.

[00:43:38] It's, you know, it's a fantasy world.

[00:43:40] Um, I, um, I love Olivia.

[00:43:44] I wish that, uh, we would get more of her.

[00:43:48] She's, she's so like, I don't know.

[00:43:51] There's something so offhand about her when Buffy finds her in Giles's house and she's

[00:43:56] like, is this blue cheese or cheese that's gone blue?

[00:43:59] I'm like, okay, that's a great line.

[00:44:00] And also you're like wearing a men's shirt.

[00:44:03] Like you look so casually, effortlessly sexy in it.

[00:44:09] Uh, and then she just sort of like takes the whole Buffy thing in stride and she called

[00:44:13] Rupert Ripper.

[00:44:15] Yeah.

[00:44:15] Doesn't try to cover up or anything.

[00:44:18] And I love that line.

[00:44:20] What did she say?

[00:44:20] Like, let me go slip into something less comfortable.

[00:44:23] Yeah.

[00:44:26] Oh, I think I've used that line actually.

[00:44:28] And I think I've used it recently to mean like, oh, I'll put on my outdoor clothes.

[00:44:33] I'm team no pants when I'm at home and other people are not in my home.

[00:44:38] Yeah.

[00:44:39] You don't need to wear pants at home by yourself or with some people that you love.

[00:44:43] That's true.

[00:44:45] Giles continues to have fantastic taste in music.

[00:44:49] Yeah.

[00:44:49] Playing a little David Bowie in the background makes me happy.

[00:44:52] It just also makes me more than ever want a Ripper spinoff show.

[00:44:58] I know.

[00:45:00] They could, they could still have Anthony Stewart head in it, like doing like narration or something

[00:45:07] and then have some young actor playing Ripper.

[00:45:11] And so many people would watch that.

[00:45:15] I yeah.

[00:45:16] Sign me up.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:17] For sure.

[00:45:19] So the fact that Olivia knew him as Ripper tells me that she's a person who can like,

[00:45:25] just roll with the flow.

[00:45:27] Like she can hang.

[00:45:28] Yeah.

[00:45:29] She's cool.

[00:45:30] And his whole like, I'm not supposed to have a private life.

[00:45:33] And then Buffy's like, no.

[00:45:35] Yes.

[00:45:35] Because you're very old and it's gross.

[00:45:38] It's so funny.

[00:45:39] I love that.

[00:45:39] Because it makes me remember that he slept with Joyce.

[00:45:43] I know.

[00:45:44] And Buffy knows about it.

[00:45:45] Poor Joyce.

[00:45:46] She's just like, damn it.

[00:45:48] Giles.

[00:45:48] Like I'm supposed to be able to pretend you don't have sex.

[00:45:52] You are not a sexual being.

[00:45:54] And meanwhile, 35 year old me is like, oh, Giles looks nice in that robe.

[00:46:01] Like he looks, he looks good.

[00:46:03] I like, um, more casual Giles.

[00:46:06] Like, you know, season one, season two of Buffy and season three, he was always in like suits and stuff.

[00:46:11] So much tweed.

[00:46:13] And now that he is, as they say on the show, a gentleman of leisure, he's, he's dressing casually and it's, um, very attractive.

[00:46:23] It does make me happy to like that reaction.

[00:46:26] And that dynamic between Buffy and Giles.

[00:46:29] It is so clear cut that they have what's a kid do a father daughter relationship.

[00:46:35] There is nothing else there.

[00:46:38] It is age appropriate.

[00:46:40] Yeah.

[00:46:40] It's just, I was like, okay, never, ever, ever sexualizes her in any way whatsoever.

[00:46:46] And it's, um, we love Giles.

[00:46:49] Even Wesley, Wesley didn't sexualize Buffy, but his thing for Cordelia just sort of introduced a icky vibe.

[00:46:57] Yeah.

[00:46:57] You know, it was like, um, but Giles always appropriate.

[00:47:02] Always, always.

[00:47:04] And yet still fascinating and sexy.

[00:47:07] It's true.

[00:47:08] Good job, Giles.

[00:47:09] Yeah.

[00:47:11] All right.

[00:47:11] We got to talk about the two best parts of the episode.

[00:47:16] Pedro Pascal, who we've mentioned already a little bit.

[00:47:19] And Sunday.

[00:47:21] Oh, Sunday.

[00:47:23] Who's one of my all time favorite Buffy vampires.

[00:47:25] Bloody Sunday.

[00:47:27] She's so mean.

[00:47:29] And she's so snarky.

[00:47:31] Mm hmm.

[00:47:32] And she's so like stylish and beautiful.

[00:47:37] She had amazing hair.

[00:47:38] Oh yeah.

[00:47:39] Yeah.

[00:47:39] That was so peak nineties.

[00:47:42] Yeah.

[00:47:43] Perfect.

[00:47:45] Could not have been better.

[00:47:47] Her like group of lackeys, like, especially the stoner lackey.

[00:47:52] Oh, I love that guy.

[00:47:53] He was great.

[00:47:56] I've got a, I've got a clip of course.

[00:47:58] Hey, check it out.

[00:48:00] Well, do we have a Klimt?

[00:48:05] Yes.

[00:48:06] Big score for Klimt.

[00:48:09] Monet still well in the lead, but look out for team Klimt coming from behind.

[00:48:17] Freshman.

[00:48:17] Man, they're so predictable.

[00:48:20] And you can never eat just one.

[00:48:23] That's so good.

[00:48:25] That's so good.

[00:48:25] I love the keeping track.

[00:48:28] The Klimt versus Monet.

[00:48:29] Yes.

[00:48:30] Oh my God.

[00:48:31] Because it's so true.

[00:48:32] Like, so there were these companies that would show up on campus like the first week or so of college.

[00:48:38] And it would be like in whatever big outdoor space there was, and there'd be all these huge racks of posters.

[00:48:44] And you could flip through them.

[00:48:46] And everybody bought posters for their dorm rooms from these people.

[00:48:50] And so then you'd go around campus and there was like, I don't know, like six posters that you would see in everybody's room.

[00:48:56] It was Blues Brothers, Klimt, Monet, Georgia O'Keeffe.

[00:49:00] I had a Georgia O'Keeffe.

[00:49:05] Those are the ones that, that I remember the best.

[00:49:07] Oh, Scarface.

[00:49:09] There was a lot of Scarface posters.

[00:49:11] It's like when I went to college, it was a ton of Pulp Fiction and Fight Club, particularly for guys.

[00:49:21] Yeah.

[00:49:21] Breakfast at Tiffany's all over the place for women and Marilyn Monroe.

[00:49:29] For whatever reason, those were super common.

[00:49:33] And then throw in like a few Van Gogh pieces.

[00:49:37] Yeah.

[00:49:37] And it's so funny how that happens.

[00:49:40] To be classy.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:40] Yeah.

[00:49:40] Of course.

[00:49:41] You got different vibes.

[00:49:42] And then like Cheech and Chong.

[00:49:44] Yep.

[00:49:45] I still remember quite a few Cheech and Chong posters.

[00:49:48] Yeah.

[00:49:48] That's how you identify the other stoner kids.

[00:49:52] If they have a Cheech and Chong poster.

[00:49:54] I had a Cheech and Chong poster.

[00:49:56] I had a Cheech and Chong poster.

[00:49:56] I, my dad let us watch all sorts of movies growing up like a lot of National Lampoons and Cheech and Chong.

[00:50:03] And me at 15 had a Cheech and Chong poster along with Stand By Me and Harry Potter in my room having never tried pot at that point.

[00:50:13] Of course not.

[00:50:14] So.

[00:50:15] That's a really funny combination.

[00:50:16] Yeah.

[00:50:17] Thanks.

[00:50:18] Thanks, dad.

[00:50:19] For sure.

[00:50:21] God, so funny.

[00:50:22] That reminds me.

[00:50:23] We didn't talk about it at the top of the episode, but the Harry Potter book coming out this, during this time.

[00:50:30] I didn't jump on the Harry Potter bandwagon until that fall, when I was interviewing for law firm jobs.

[00:50:38] And I was like, I need to have something that I can read that's really light and easy to read.

[00:50:45] You know, so a YA book.

[00:50:47] Yeah.

[00:50:48] And everybody, everybody was reading Harry Potter.

[00:50:50] It was, I was living in New York City.

[00:50:52] I was taking the subway every day.

[00:50:53] And the subway was like Bibles and Harry Potter as far as the eyes could see.

[00:50:57] That's so funny.

[00:50:58] So many, so many Bibles, lots of people reading the Bible on the subway, but also lots of people reading Harry Potter.

[00:51:05] And so I remember it so clearly.

[00:51:06] I got the first two books were out in paperback at that point.

[00:51:10] So I got those and I was reading those in between all my law firm interviews.

[00:51:14] And then the third book came out in October, but I waited and I bought it right before Thanksgiving to read over Thanksgiving.

[00:51:23] It was like my treat.

[00:51:25] And I read it like on the Amtrak home for Thanksgiving, along with like 90 other people.

[00:51:31] There was like Harry Potter books on the train as well.

[00:51:34] Yeah.

[00:51:34] I can't imagine.

[00:51:35] That's how it was like for swim team that summer.

[00:51:40] It was just everyone was reading Harry Potter while we were waiting for our races everywhere.

[00:51:47] Aw.

[00:51:49] It was before we knew things about JK Rowling that I wish we didn't know.

[00:51:54] We didn't know.

[00:51:54] Yeah.

[00:51:56] I just so wish Sunday could have ever interacted with Spike.

[00:52:01] I know.

[00:52:01] I'm so sad that she was a one episode vampire because she's so funny.

[00:52:06] She's like almost, I mean, she's akin to a female version of Spike.

[00:52:11] There's that sass and a little bit of like punk edge to her and she's intelligent clearly.

[00:52:19] And she's just fun.

[00:52:21] Yeah.

[00:52:21] She's fun.

[00:52:22] Fun to watch.

[00:52:23] It was a perfect introduction to the season though, because the episode overall is pretty light.

[00:52:29] You know, there's no big bad.

[00:52:31] There's no overarching mystery yet.

[00:52:33] It's really just about readjusting to college with, you know, this little vampire twist.

[00:52:38] And when Buffy does finally regain her, her courage and her, her bravado and her mojo

[00:52:46] or whatever you want to call it, the fight that she has with Sunday and her gang is fantastic.

[00:52:51] It's so fun.

[00:52:53] Oh, good.

[00:52:54] And then when she's like, I think when in the three seconds it takes you to turn to dust,

[00:52:58] you'll find the mistake was touching my stuff.

[00:53:01] And it's, I love the way Sarah Michelle Gellar played it because like, you know, when she's

[00:53:08] still finding her footing and she poor thing crashes through the skylight, basically door

[00:53:16] dash for the vampires below delivering a player directly to them.

[00:53:21] And her dialogue, like, you know, Buffy is known for her quippy one-liners.

[00:53:27] And even that was off at first.

[00:53:30] Like when she says, you got a nice setup here, but you made one mistake and she's all serious.

[00:53:34] And when Sunday asked her, what was that?

[00:53:37] And she tails off.

[00:53:38] She's like, well, I'm not actually positive, but statistically speaking people usually,

[00:53:42] and then she gets, you know, kicked in the face.

[00:53:44] That was perfectly executed by the two of them.

[00:53:49] And it just, it, it plays more into Buffy trying to find her footing and just being off.

[00:53:55] And I love when you see her finally get like that oomph back after Sunday breaks her class

[00:54:05] protector award.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:07] Which is infuriating.

[00:54:09] A step too far for sure.

[00:54:11] And then it's like, Buffy's back.

[00:54:13] That seems to be what finally clicks for her and motivates her.

[00:54:18] And then she's back to getting those sassy one-liners out and landing punches.

[00:54:23] But this is one episode.

[00:54:25] I love when she's like, I don't remember what Sunday says, but then when Buffy goes,

[00:54:29] I think I'll answer that with a headbutt.

[00:54:31] It's one of my favorite Buffy lines ever.

[00:54:34] Yes.

[00:54:34] It's so great.

[00:54:35] It's right after she breaks her arm.

[00:54:37] She's like, what if I break your arm?

[00:54:38] Or how about if I break your arm?

[00:54:40] And Buffy doesn't even flinch.

[00:54:43] Like you tell her Buffy.

[00:54:44] Yeah.

[00:54:45] Stay strong.

[00:54:46] But I will say.

[00:54:47] Arms not broken.

[00:54:48] It's only hurt.

[00:54:49] Like.

[00:54:50] This episode is one that did make me think, you know, when people become vampires,

[00:54:56] do they just become embedded with some sort of inherent knowledge of martial arts and training?

[00:55:03] Because all of them are so skilled.

[00:55:06] And specifically like, you know, roundhouse kicks and spin kicks and all of this stuff.

[00:55:12] I mean, it looks very cool.

[00:55:14] Yeah.

[00:55:15] But that's one.

[00:55:16] This one.

[00:55:16] I don't know why stood out a little bit more to me.

[00:55:20] I was like, this is, these are very skillful, skillful fighters.

[00:55:23] Yeah.

[00:55:24] I'm not surprised that Sunday is a skillful fighter, but the fact that any of her lackeys

[00:55:29] are of any use whatsoever is surprising.

[00:55:33] Like that poor stoner guy.

[00:55:35] I'm just like, come on, man.

[00:55:37] But when he's like, he wants to have Buffy's blood because he thinks it'll be like, I stick.

[00:55:43] I stick.

[00:55:44] Yep.

[00:55:44] I didn't get that in fifth grade.

[00:55:46] I'm glad that you did not, but it means it's a type of weed that's supposed to be really,

[00:55:50] really great.

[00:55:52] Now it's hilarious.

[00:55:54] I was like, oh, okay.

[00:55:56] I think I, I didn't get, there were a couple of lines in this episode.

[00:56:00] I guess I haven't seen it in a while that finally landed.

[00:56:03] Oh, that's good.

[00:56:05] And I understood it.

[00:56:06] I was like, damn, I love that.

[00:56:08] I can still pick up new things after having watched this so many times, but the site,

[00:56:14] the tie stick line was definitely one of them.

[00:56:18] I was like, oh, yeah.

[00:56:20] Um, it has a lot of great moments with our side characters as well.

[00:56:25] Like when Xander, uh, goes to Buffy's dorm and first of all, when he hugs Kathy and he's

[00:56:32] like, I don't know you do.

[00:56:33] I is so funny.

[00:56:36] Yeah.

[00:56:37] But when he first comes in and he's like, it's a prank.

[00:56:39] It's from Buffy's friends who sleep all day and have no tans.

[00:56:43] It's so clever.

[00:56:45] Yeah.

[00:56:46] That's a good job.

[00:56:48] Zand.

[00:56:48] Yeah.

[00:56:48] That's very, very well done.

[00:56:50] That.

[00:56:50] Um, the idea that Buffy would be able to maintain her secret identity with a roommate is ludicrous.

[00:56:58] I know.

[00:56:59] Like there's no way Kathy doesn't eventually figure it out.

[00:57:02] It's just insane.

[00:57:03] Unless, and she's already shown us that she's pretty observant.

[00:57:07] Yeah.

[00:57:08] She doesn't really miss anything.

[00:57:11] And, uh, I do love, you know, it's pretty diabolical the way that Sunday and her little cronies take all of Buffy's stuff and leave that note just like she saw with Eddie.

[00:57:25] Yeah.

[00:57:26] That is some, that is a mind game.

[00:57:30] Yeah.

[00:57:31] Like that is insane.

[00:57:33] And the look on Sunday's face when she thinks of it is like, I know what's going to really throw her more off her game.

[00:57:41] Like she, she knows what she's doing.

[00:57:43] That's mean.

[00:57:45] It is so mean.

[00:57:46] It's so good.

[00:57:47] And poor Eddie.

[00:57:49] Yeah.

[00:57:49] Poor, poor Eddie.

[00:57:50] I do love.

[00:57:51] Such a sweetheart.

[00:57:52] I know.

[00:57:53] With his human bondage and everything.

[00:57:54] That was, I love Buffy's response to that.

[00:57:59] Oh, I'm not, I'm not really into porn.

[00:58:01] And then of course she's like, well, I don't want to make this guy feel bad.

[00:58:04] And then she said, I'm just trying to cut way back.

[00:58:07] Yeah.

[00:58:08] And I, I like the reference to Mr. Pointy, which I don't really have a security blanket unless you count Mr. Pointy.

[00:58:15] That's a good callback.

[00:58:17] And the fact that she, you know, in Eddie's things sees his of human bondage security blanket book.

[00:58:25] And that is how she processes that this was not intentional.

[00:58:29] There's no way he would have left that behind.

[00:58:31] She's got good slayer instincts still.

[00:58:35] Yeah.

[00:58:37] Poor Eddie.

[00:58:37] Poor Eddie.

[00:58:38] And that nobody really like, like, you know, Giles is like, and she didn't even try to tell Willow and Oz about Eddie and what she found.

[00:58:47] Although there's that great moment when she's looking for him in class.

[00:58:49] And Willow's like, oh, you made a friend.

[00:58:52] I know.

[00:58:54] She's so.

[00:58:55] Thanks, mom.

[00:58:56] Willow.

[00:58:56] Yeah.

[00:58:57] She's.

[00:58:57] Willow's just loving life, which makes sense.

[00:59:00] It makes sense that Willow would just kind of fit in seamlessly.

[00:59:05] Well, and she has her on campus boyfriend, which, you know, Buffy didn't remember to pick one of those up.

[00:59:10] That was so cute.

[00:59:12] You know, really long.

[00:59:13] I do.

[00:59:15] I do.

[00:59:16] I do like how Riley isn't immediately enthralled with Buffy.

[00:59:20] He, you know, she doesn't make a great impression.

[00:59:23] She obviously knocks a bunch of books on his head.

[00:59:25] And when she says, I am nice to me and is just kind of stumbling all over herself.

[00:59:30] And she calls Buffy Willow's friend.

[00:59:33] Oh, I love that.

[00:59:35] Love that.

[00:59:35] Right.

[00:59:36] Like, it's so nice because typically we know that Willow and everybody that's close with Buffy is kind of used to almost being second fiddle to her.

[00:59:46] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[00:59:47] They're the sidekicks.

[00:59:48] Oh, it's it's nice.

[00:59:50] And it's also part of like Buffy's, you know, what we now call main character energy.

[00:59:55] Right.

[00:59:55] She's she is the main character of the show, but she also in within the story, she's the middle of everything that happens around the slaying and her social group.

[01:00:05] And for her to be like shoved into this sidekick role is is part of this whole experience for her where she feels like I'm not up to being whatever I need to be for this.

[01:00:20] And, you know, she has the revelation at the end of the episode that it's a lot like high school.

[01:00:23] And then, of course, she says, so I know what to expect, which is we're all supposed to understand that that's like, haha.

[01:00:30] Yeah.

[01:00:31] You don't know what's coming for you.

[01:00:32] Yeah.

[01:00:32] So I do have a question that maybe you can help because and I didn't Google this, I will admit.

[01:00:39] But how did.

[01:00:43] Sunday and her gang get into Buffy's dorm without an invitation?

[01:00:50] Did Kathy let them in to the tunnel somehow lead to her closet?

[01:00:56] And it's like a roundabout way of avoiding having to get an invitation?

[01:01:01] Because I'm pretty sure in.

[01:01:04] I mean, slight spoiler alert in future episodes, you have to be invited.

[01:01:08] It's just like somebody's house.

[01:01:10] I don't know.

[01:01:11] So how did they get around that?

[01:01:13] Is it because nobody was there?

[01:01:16] No, because I don't usually do it.

[01:01:19] Like I don't.

[01:01:19] I couldn't wrap my brain around it.

[01:01:20] I think Mike is able to get in without an invitation.

[01:01:25] Later.

[01:01:26] There might be some kind of dorm exception.

[01:01:28] I don't know.

[01:01:29] We should keep an eye on that.

[01:01:31] Yeah.

[01:01:31] I've kept it.

[01:01:32] I made a note.

[01:01:32] I was like, hold on.

[01:01:33] Because not only were they able to get into Buffy's room, they've been getting into people's rooms and taking their stuff for like years.

[01:01:41] So maybe dorms don't count, but that's.

[01:01:44] That doesn't make any sense to me.

[01:01:46] Like, and I was never 100% clear on whether Faith's motel room had counted as like a residence that a vampire needed an invitation to or not.

[01:01:57] Because Angel just goes in there one time and I think in the very first Faith episode, those vampire attacks her at her motel room.

[01:02:06] So I think that there's some really stupid lines about.

[01:02:10] Yeah.

[01:02:11] Sorry.

[01:02:11] But about what counts and doesn't count as somebody's home because I would think it would be anywhere somebody lives if it's magic.

[01:02:18] Right.

[01:02:19] It can tell if you live there.

[01:02:20] Well, and I think my and you probably are like this way to my legal brain takes over for what would count as burglary of a habitation.

[01:02:28] Yeah.

[01:02:29] Where you are living no matter how brief, like if you're in an RV or living in your car and that is your home, that would count, I would think.

[01:02:38] But that's not necessarily the rules in a fictional vampire universe.

[01:02:44] So, I don't know.

[01:02:45] So, like, let's fast forward to the zombie apocalypse when everybody's living in like Home Depot and malls and sports arenas and stuff.

[01:02:54] Yeah.

[01:02:54] Do vampires just have a free for all if they're not living in like typical houses?

[01:02:59] Oh, what a nightmare.

[01:03:01] Right.

[01:03:01] Can vampires enter an apartment building but not the individual apartments?

[01:03:07] Yeah.

[01:03:07] Like common grounds, the common areas.

[01:03:10] Can they go in or is it because it's temporary housing?

[01:03:14] Like that doesn't make any sense.

[01:03:15] Can they go into an orphanage?

[01:03:18] Oh, God.

[01:03:18] An old fashioned orphanage, you know, like.

[01:03:20] What about a monastery?

[01:03:22] We know that.

[01:03:23] Oh, yeah.

[01:03:24] The angel like killed a whole bunch of nuns one time.

[01:03:27] Did he go to like a Abbey and like, because it's like a house of God, anyone can get in?

[01:03:33] I don't know.

[01:03:33] Right.

[01:03:33] Or like a summer camp.

[01:03:35] Like a cabin.

[01:03:37] Yeah.

[01:03:38] Interesting.

[01:03:38] I need.

[01:03:39] Now I need never be answered, but I need to know.

[01:03:44] Also, now I need to have an angel versus Jason Voorhees movie.

[01:03:51] Where it's like a vampire attacks the summer camp and then Jason Voorhees is like, no, this is my summer camp to attack.

[01:03:58] Like you can't.

[01:03:59] I get to kill them.

[01:04:01] You don't.

[01:04:02] That's not how this works.

[01:04:05] Oh, gosh.

[01:04:08] I can't.

[01:04:09] A couple of things I just have to say.

[01:04:12] The dorm room that Buffy lives in is ridiculously big.

[01:04:15] I know.

[01:04:16] Actually.

[01:04:16] That's like the size of an apartment I had one time.

[01:04:19] It's huge.

[01:04:20] It is really big.

[01:04:22] I think I got lucky.

[01:04:24] Our dorms were, you had to live on campus the first three years at my college and our dorms were gigantic.

[01:04:32] But that I quickly learned how abnormal that was when I visited my other friends at school.

[01:04:39] But Buffy, like everything's updated.

[01:04:42] Yeah.

[01:04:43] And not chipped.

[01:04:45] There's no chipped paint.

[01:04:47] They have these giant nice walk in closets.

[01:04:50] Like, yeah, pretty nice.

[01:04:51] I would have loved that setup.

[01:04:53] That dorm room.

[01:04:54] My room was, my first two dorm rooms were tiny.

[01:04:59] I think they were like six by 10, you know, like the size of a jail cell.

[01:05:04] Oh, gosh.

[01:05:04] Yeah.

[01:05:05] They were exactly the width of the bed.

[01:05:09] Like, if you turned the bed, you know, on the short wall of the room, it took up the whole, that was the exact width.

[01:05:19] Oh, my gosh.

[01:05:20] Whew.

[01:05:21] And there was, you know, just room for the horribly ugly desks that they still have.

[01:05:26] I was at reunion in June.

[01:05:27] It's the exact same furniture.

[01:05:29] Oh, my gosh.

[01:05:30] And a dresser and this really hideous overhead light that was like, I felt like you were being, like, interrogated by the.

[01:05:40] Awful fluorescence.

[01:05:41] Yeah, like Soviet Union.

[01:05:45] Yeah.

[01:05:45] So whenever I see a dorm room in a TV show and it's like, I mean, there was room to have like a whole yoga class in the middle of that room.

[01:05:52] It was huge.

[01:05:53] It's true.

[01:05:54] I'm like so jealous.

[01:05:55] I'm like, God, my room was so small.

[01:05:56] But there was also something great about how, like, cozy, because a lot of the dorm rooms in at Vassar were small.

[01:06:03] And, you know, we all, we all squished in there anyway.

[01:06:07] It was fine.

[01:06:08] I feel like that'd be a good bonding experience.

[01:06:11] Like, and I, my experience at my school was also not quite normal.

[01:06:15] Like, the dorms were nice, but ours were definitely the bit like we had a balcony.

[01:06:21] Wow.

[01:06:22] Where we could, we had like chairs and a setup.

[01:06:25] And yeah, I, I am now very thankful for that because I did not realize how spoiled we were.

[01:06:33] Yeah.

[01:06:34] Whenever I'm at one of my college reunions, one of the topics of conversation is always how pretty crappy the dorms are and, and how all of us are like.

[01:06:45] Like, yeah, I couldn't do this as an adult.

[01:06:49] Like living in this room when I was 18 was fine.

[01:06:52] But this is not sustainable as an adult.

[01:06:56] It's just too gross.

[01:06:58] Like the, like a teeny studio apartment in New York or something.

[01:07:02] Yeah.

[01:07:02] Just what it would remind me of now.

[01:07:04] Um, but, uh, yeah, they're great for reunion because it's, you're only there two nights.

[01:07:12] It's just long enough to have the nostalgia.

[01:07:15] Aw.

[01:07:15] Aw.

[01:07:16] And, and also just long enough to start remembering, oh, that's right.

[01:07:19] These beds are awful.

[01:07:21] So you, you get the perfect amount of the dorm rooms and then you're back out of there.

[01:07:26] And I love the, you know, we see Buffy dealing with Kathy's snoring and laughing in her sleep, which is something my roommate used to do.

[01:07:37] And it scared the hell out of me.

[01:07:38] Oh, that's so creepy.

[01:07:39] Like, and she would also sit up in the middle of the night and start like kind of speaking gibberish.

[01:07:46] And I, oh, that, that was an adjustment for sure.

[01:07:51] But then I coughed throughout most of the year in the night.

[01:07:53] So we, we were even.

[01:07:55] It was fine.

[01:07:56] And you get used to it.

[01:07:57] There's something really valuable about learning to live with someone and all of their little, like, you know, particular quirks because nobody in life is going to be 100% not annoying.

[01:08:08] Like nobody.

[01:08:10] That's true.

[01:08:10] Especially if you spend that much time with them.

[01:08:13] Yeah.

[01:08:13] I mean, I had to share rooms with my siblings growing up.

[01:08:17] So I feel like the fact that I had a single in college was almost like a, like karmic reward.

[01:08:22] Oh yeah.

[01:08:22] Oh, I finally have a room to myself.

[01:08:24] I love it.

[01:08:25] That's fair.

[01:08:27] That seems justified.

[01:08:28] If anybody deserved a single, that would definitely be you.

[01:08:33] It's just like, ah, peace.

[01:08:35] Quiet.

[01:08:39] Oh, so a couple of other things.

[01:08:42] Um, the song playing in the bronze is absolutely fantastic.

[01:08:45] It's called you and me by the band splendid.

[01:08:48] I couldn't find it on Apple music on iTunes to buy.

[01:08:52] Um, that band splendid were also featured in season two, episode 19 and season five, episode 17.

[01:08:59] Nice.

[01:09:00] They are a Dutch duo.

[01:09:03] It felt very appropriate.

[01:09:06] Yeah.

[01:09:06] Buffy.

[01:09:07] Like it's fit in.

[01:09:08] It was melancholy, but like loungy.

[01:09:10] So just right for the bronze.

[01:09:13] I was like, yeah, I think it's so funny to me that the bronze like remains a constant in Sunnydale, but like high school kids go there.

[01:09:21] But then now we're going to start seeing that college kids go there.

[01:09:24] It's so.

[01:09:25] For everyone.

[01:09:26] Except for adults.

[01:09:27] But it's also not that big and not that crowded.

[01:09:30] So like, is it the only bar in Sunnydale?

[01:09:33] That can't be true.

[01:09:34] Like there must be at least one other bar.

[01:09:36] There's a coffee shop.

[01:09:37] We know there's a coffee shop.

[01:09:38] Maybe there's like, you know, a more distinguished bar or something that the other adults where Giles would fit in or like a pub or something.

[01:09:51] Because thinking about the high school kids always constantly being in a place where alcohol is served and other adults are.

[01:10:01] It's like, yeah, it's not maybe not great.

[01:10:05] It's not great.

[01:10:08] But it was nice to see the bronze again.

[01:10:10] I love it.

[01:10:12] It was nice.

[01:10:13] And Buffy finding, you know, going back to somewhere that was familiar that really hadn't changed.

[01:10:19] Yeah.

[01:10:20] And being able to run into Xander there and kind of get back to feeling like herself was nice.

[01:10:28] And the audience too, it kind of reorients you.

[01:10:31] Yeah.

[01:10:31] Like, oh, okay.

[01:10:32] We know this place.

[01:10:33] Like we're used to the bronze.

[01:10:35] Yeah.

[01:10:35] And Xander being Xander quoting what Phantom Menace and Scarface dropping a little bit of wisdom on Buffy and getting it wrong eventually.

[01:10:48] Yeah.

[01:10:49] She's like, oh, this is familiar.

[01:10:51] We're back to something that we know.

[01:10:53] And I do love too.

[01:10:55] I don't know if it's intentional or not, but Xander describing Buffy as being in a holding pattern when he's talking to Willow and Oz was like, is that a callback to his Halloween spent as a soldier?

[01:11:06] Yeah.

[01:11:06] He's just still got some of that knowledge rattling around up there.

[01:11:10] A little military knowledge.

[01:11:11] Yeah.

[01:11:11] It's kind of nice.

[01:11:15] Buffy's final sleigh of Sunday is one of the all time best Buffy sleighs.

[01:11:21] The way she spins that steak and then just like turns and it's such a confident throw.

[01:11:28] And then she doesn't even watch her turn to dust, which is the equivalent of like people walking away from an explosion and not looking back.

[01:11:36] And and her attitude about it.

[01:11:39] And it's like everything in that moment came together perfectly.

[01:11:41] And she's back to being herself completely.

[01:11:44] And it's in the credits now.

[01:11:46] And I think that that's so good.

[01:11:48] That image of her twirling the steak might stay in the credits for like several more seasons.

[01:11:54] Seems familiar.

[01:11:55] It's a really strong moment.

[01:11:58] And I love how Sunday just kind of stands there and looks down at the steak with her hands on her hips.

[01:12:04] Yeah, that's so Sunday.

[01:12:05] Before she tends to dust.

[01:12:07] Yeah, she's like, damn it.

[01:12:08] Yeah.

[01:12:08] Fine.

[01:12:09] Yeah.

[01:12:10] And of course, Giles showing up to quote unquote, save the day after everything's over.

[01:12:15] And I love his line and the way he delivers it.

[01:12:19] When Buffy, he's like, you know, I'm here.

[01:12:22] He gives you this whole big speech.

[01:12:23] Like, I'm here to support you.

[01:12:24] And Buffy's like, okay, like, cool, basically.

[01:12:27] And she walks off and he's like, oh, the evil is this way.

[01:12:31] Yeah.

[01:12:31] Just like eager and ready to follow.

[01:12:33] He's so cute.

[01:12:35] He's like, oh, buddy, you're precious.

[01:12:39] I think it's weird that Xander wanted to steal all the stuff that was there.

[01:12:44] Sure.

[01:12:45] But we will see a little bit more of his living conditions in future episodes.

[01:12:50] And I don't know.

[01:12:52] Maybe he needs that rowing machine.

[01:12:54] Yeah.

[01:12:55] Rowing machines.

[01:12:57] Those are good, though.

[01:12:59] Not that cheap sometimes either.

[01:13:02] Oh, gosh.

[01:13:03] I think, too.

[01:13:05] I think, too.

[01:13:06] You know, Xander always is.

[01:13:11] I mean, he's the comic relief for the most part.

[01:13:13] So I feel like a lot of it was part of that.

[01:13:15] But imagine the things that they could find in that little hovel, basically.

[01:13:23] Yeah.

[01:13:24] All this, all these belongings from students from 1982 on, they could probably solve a lot

[01:13:29] of disappearances.

[01:13:31] Yeah.

[01:13:31] By what's in there.

[01:13:32] And I love Buffy's reaction to them reading her diary.

[01:13:36] Yeah.

[01:13:37] To like that does it.

[01:13:38] And then the girl trying on her skirt.

[01:13:41] And that's when she says they basically they all deserve to die.

[01:13:45] Like we need to kill them all.

[01:13:47] Yeah.

[01:13:47] It's like, how dare she?

[01:13:48] Well, the mistake she made was touching Buffy stuff.

[01:13:54] And now we all know don't touch Buffy stuff.

[01:13:56] No.

[01:13:57] And that comes up maybe in the next episode or two.

[01:14:02] Yeah.

[01:14:03] As a theme.

[01:14:05] Yeah.

[01:14:05] Don't touch my stuff.

[01:14:06] I mean, I know.

[01:14:07] I know the feeling.

[01:14:08] I don't like how people touch my stuff.

[01:14:11] And if they take my stuff and lose it.

[01:14:15] Oh, not based on real events.

[01:14:17] Yes.

[01:14:17] Based on real events.

[01:14:18] It makes me really furious.

[01:14:21] That's fair.

[01:14:23] You know, as I was I was rewatching it again.

[01:14:27] This morning.

[01:14:28] And, you know, it's a enjoyable episode.

[01:14:32] But I was thinking the whole time.

[01:14:34] I was like, this is definitely not my favorite season premiere of Buffy.

[01:14:39] And I know we talked about last season, season three, episode one, and is probably my least favorite premiere episode of the entire series.

[01:14:51] And I think that still stands.

[01:14:54] And this might be number two.

[01:14:57] Unfortunately.

[01:14:58] I don't love the beginning of either six or seven, actually.

[01:15:02] Really?

[01:15:04] Yeah.

[01:15:05] There's parts of.

[01:15:06] Six is kind of jarring.

[01:15:08] Yeah.

[01:15:09] There's it's more the second episode of season six that I really don't like.

[01:15:13] And then the beginning of season seven is just weird.

[01:15:20] Season seven in general is a little bit like uneven.

[01:15:25] I like this opening.

[01:15:27] I think it does a really good job of like resetting the scene and without being like super heavy or anything.

[01:15:34] Yeah, I like 3.1.

[01:15:37] 2.1 makes me really uncomfortable.

[01:15:40] Oh, that's a.

[01:15:42] And.

[01:15:42] Special episode.

[01:15:44] Of course, the first episode of the first season is, you know, it's a pilot.

[01:15:48] It's its own special thing.

[01:15:49] It's like not even worth comparing it to other season openers.

[01:15:52] But I love season five, episode one.

[01:15:55] Love, love.

[01:15:55] That one's so good.

[01:15:57] Love it.

[01:15:57] That's it.

[01:15:58] I'm curious how our, you know, if our opinions will change as we go through and rewatch them through a more analytical lens.

[01:16:08] Yeah.

[01:16:08] But I found myself already.

[01:16:10] I was just like, I don't want to compare too much because it's an entirely different season.

[01:16:14] It's an entirely new environment.

[01:16:18] But there is a lot about this episode that I like and I think it does do a good job setting up the rest of the season.

[01:16:25] Yeah.

[01:16:25] And we can definitely talk about that a little bit more in our spoiler section.

[01:16:29] In the spoiler section.

[01:16:29] Yeah.

[01:16:30] Well, before we get to spoilers, let's talk about some of the pop culture references that we heard in this episode.

[01:16:40] Some not so pop.

[01:16:43] Some just cultural.

[01:16:45] So the first one, we've got Oz saying it's pretty much a madhouse, a madhouse, which is, of course, a quote from Charlton Heston as Colonel George Taylor in the 1968 film Planet of the Apes.

[01:17:03] And Xander actually references this same line a couple of seasons ago and when she was bad.

[01:17:12] And Buffy, when she's talking about the huge library, says, yeah, this is great.

[01:17:16] You know, if we ever need a place for the Nuremberg rallies.

[01:17:18] Beginning in 1933, an area to the south of the German city of Nuremberg was turned into a gigantic building site.

[01:17:25] The, quote, party rally grounds were designed to be a stone memorial to the ideology of national socialism, also known as Nazis.

[01:17:34] The Nazis held their annual party rallies here from 1933 to 38, at which point they developed their, oh, at the rallies, they developed all of their anti-Semitic laws.

[01:17:45] It's an interesting choice for Buffy because it's not like she's a Nazi.

[01:17:49] I can't imagine there's anything that would even imply that she's a Nazi.

[01:17:54] But it's just a statement about size, I think.

[01:17:58] Yeah, which is interesting.

[01:18:00] Yeah.

[01:18:01] But it worked.

[01:18:03] Next, we've got Riley talking about Professor Walsh and operant conditioning when they run into him in the library.

[01:18:13] And he says, you know, her treatise on Dietrich's work.

[01:18:17] And we can only presume that Professor Walsh must have written her own treatise based on Dietrich von Freeberg's treatise of the intellect and the intelligible written in the late 13th century.

[01:18:29] And operant conditioning is conditioning in which the desired behavior or increasingly closer approximations to it are followed by a rewarding or reinforcing stimulus.

[01:18:40] So you think of basically, you know, Pavlov's dogs and ringing the bell and giving a treat, that type of thing.

[01:18:49] Like I have trained Pixel that if he stays in his cat bed next to the computer while I'm podcasting, afterward, he gets T-R-E-A-T-S.

[01:19:03] Aw.

[01:19:03] Can't say the word out loud because he'll react.

[01:19:08] But Kathy hangs a Celine Dion poster on the wall.

[01:19:12] Celine Dion is a popular singer of Sappy Love songs.

[01:19:15] Her most famous song, of course, is My Heart Will Go On from the 1997 movie Titanic.

[01:19:22] Oh, over and over and over again.

[01:19:24] I played that song.

[01:19:26] So then we've got, of course, Eddie mentioning his security blanket book of human bondage and of human bondage was written by W.

[01:19:36] Somerset.

[01:19:37] Is that Mawgill?

[01:19:38] It's Mawgill.

[01:19:39] Mom.

[01:19:40] Thank you.

[01:19:42] I was like, this is a blind spot for me when it comes to literature.

[01:19:45] I had never heard of this book, actually.

[01:19:47] It was originally published in 1915 and is a classic tale of sexual obsession and man's hunger for freedom.

[01:19:56] I've always meant to read it after hearing of it in this show and I've never gotten around to it.

[01:20:04] Hmm.

[01:20:05] Maybe this is the year.

[01:20:06] It's a creepy book club eventually.

[01:20:10] The stoner vamp regarding the artwork they have collected from dorms says,

[01:20:15] Monet's still well in the lead, but look out for Team Klimt coming in from behind.

[01:20:20] Claude Monet, 1840 to 1926, was a French landscape painter and a founder of Impressionism.

[01:20:27] Austrian painter and illustrator Gustav Klimt, 1862 to 1918, was the founder of the school of painting known as the Vienna Secession.

[01:20:36] The kiss, arguably his most famous piece, was the print scene in this episode.

[01:20:41] Apparently these two artists are very popular in freshman dorm rooms.

[01:20:45] Oh, yes, they are.

[01:20:46] I wonder what's popular now.

[01:20:48] I know.

[01:20:49] I really want to know.

[01:20:50] You know what?

[01:20:50] My niece is a college freshman.

[01:20:52] I'm going to text her and ask her.

[01:20:55] I should ask her.

[01:20:56] I was like, I don't think I know anybody in college anymore.

[01:20:59] Except I have.

[01:20:59] Nope.

[01:21:00] He graduated.

[01:21:01] Anyway.

[01:21:03] Another one.

[01:21:04] The stoner vamp.

[01:21:06] I wish we got a name for him.

[01:21:08] Says you can never eat just one when he's referencing freshmen.

[01:21:12] And of course, Lay's brand potato chips have been using variations of this slogan since 1963.

[01:21:20] I didn't realize it went back to the 60s.

[01:21:22] That's great.

[01:21:23] I know.

[01:21:23] It's a long time.

[01:21:25] It's kind of true.

[01:21:26] I love this next one.

[01:21:29] Buffy says to Giles.

[01:21:30] Okay.

[01:21:31] Remember before you became Hugh Hefner when you used to be a watcher?

[01:21:34] Hugh Hefner is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Playboy magazine.

[01:21:39] And for very sheltered people listening to this podcast, I can't imagine who that is.

[01:21:44] But that's a magazine featuring nude women.

[01:21:49] That's a really funny description.

[01:21:51] I know.

[01:21:51] That's like a very PC.

[01:21:54] That's a very basic description of what it is.

[01:21:56] It's a well-known magazine that people read for the articles.

[01:22:01] It does have a long history of having really great writers write articles for it because

[01:22:06] it's meant to be the sort of classy person's porn.

[01:22:11] It's a little more wholesome than Penthouse or those other magazines.

[01:22:16] Yeah.

[01:22:18] And Hugh Hefner was known for his lavish parties at the Playboy Mansion, attended by celebrities

[01:22:24] and Playboy Playmates who are beautiful young women who have been in the magazine or are just

[01:22:32] hired to be beautiful women in scanty outfits walking around the Playboy Mansion.

[01:22:38] And he is often photographed wearing a smoking jacket, like a velvet smoking jacket, hence the

[01:22:44] robe reference from Giles, about Giles.

[01:22:48] I love it.

[01:22:48] I love it.

[01:22:49] And then this is, of course, a very pop culture reference with Xander talking about his road

[01:22:58] trip saying, there's some Purple Mountain's majesty, I'm going to have to say.

[01:23:02] And of course, Purple Mountain's majesty refers to the lyrics of America the Beautiful, written

[01:23:08] by Catherine Lee Bates in 1893 and revised in 1913.

[01:23:13] The following is part of the first verse.

[01:23:16] Oh, beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain, for purple mountain majesties

[01:23:21] above the fruited plain.

[01:23:23] I would love if anybody did not understand that reference.

[01:23:28] That's like a classic.

[01:23:30] I have often wished that was our national anthem instead of a star-spangled banner.

[01:23:36] It doesn't glorify war and it's easier to sing.

[01:23:39] It would make a much better anthem.

[01:23:42] I'll ask.

[01:23:44] Buffy says to Xander, you saw the Grand Canyon?

[01:23:47] And Xander says, I saw the movie Grand Canyon on cable.

[01:23:51] The Grand Canyon, of course, is a gorge of the Colorado River in northern Arizona.

[01:23:55] It's over 200 miles long and one mile deep.

[01:23:58] It attracts millions of visitors per year.

[01:24:01] The movie Xander probably saw on cable, as there are 1949 and 1958 movies of the same name,

[01:24:07] is the 1991 movie Grand Canyon with Steve Martin, Kevin Kline, and Danny Glover.

[01:24:13] I have not seen it.

[01:24:14] Me neither.

[01:24:15] I was going to say that might be the one Steve Martin project I have not seen.

[01:24:19] You might have to check that out.

[01:24:22] I know nothing about it.

[01:24:23] And then, of course, we talked about this earlier.

[01:24:27] Xander's reference where he says, Avengers assemble.

[01:24:29] Let's get it going.

[01:24:31] Avengers, of course, is a Marvel comic book featuring a team of superheroes, if you didn't know,

[01:24:36] currently including Thor, Iron Man, Captain America.

[01:24:39] And, of course, these days, the universe of the Avengers and Marvel in general has expanded exponentially.

[01:24:55] Yeah.

[01:24:56] It used to be that Thor and Iron Man were these tiny, obscure comic book characters.

[01:25:05] Jeez.

[01:25:06] That's hard to picture now.

[01:25:09] Yeah.

[01:25:11] Xander says, I love this scene, fear leads to anger.

[01:25:17] Anger leads to hate.

[01:25:19] Hate leads to anger.

[01:25:20] Wait a minute.

[01:25:21] This mangled quote is, of course, from Star Wars Episode I, The Phantom Menace.

[01:25:25] Yoda senses the fear in young Anakin Skywalker, who, spoiler alert, later becomes Darth Vader,

[01:25:33] and says the following, fear leads to anger.

[01:25:36] Anger leads to hate.

[01:25:37] Hate leads to suffering.

[01:25:39] Dang.

[01:25:40] Phantom Menace was released at the beginning of the summer, immediately prior to Buffy Season 4 in May of 99.

[01:25:47] I feel like this line, there's also a version of this line in Empire Strikes Back.

[01:25:54] It does sound very familiar.

[01:25:57] I bet that somebody in our audience is a Star Wars nerd and will tell us.

[01:26:02] I bet, yeah.

[01:26:04] Somebody knows.

[01:26:05] Let's see.

[01:26:06] Let's see.

[01:26:06] And then, of course, Xander, quoting more iconic films, says, first you get the women, then you get the money, then you...

[01:26:17] And this is Xander's attempt at quoting 1983's Scarface.

[01:26:20] The line, spoken by Al Pacino's character, is, in this country, you got to make the money first, then when you get the money, you get the power.

[01:26:29] Then when you get the power, then you get the women.

[01:26:33] I mean, he's not wrong.

[01:26:35] Yeah.

[01:26:37] Oh, jeez.

[01:26:38] There are plenty of women who will go to power and go to money.

[01:26:42] I don't seem to be one of them, but there are a lot of them out there.

[01:26:46] There are plenty of women out there.

[01:26:46] Hmm.

[01:26:48] Buffy says to Xander, in response to his rambling, thanks for the Dadaist pep talk, which there's no way Buffy knows what Dadaism is.

[01:26:57] I know.

[01:26:58] Dada was an art movement from the early 20th century.

[01:27:01] The literary manifestations of Dada were mostly nonsense poems with meaningless random combinations of words.

[01:27:08] Dadaism was sort of the beginning of what we now call performance art.

[01:27:13] And a lot of the performance aspects of it were about, like, frightening the audience, surprising the audience, yelling at the audience.

[01:27:20] Like, anything to get people out of their comfort zone.

[01:27:23] It was sort of about waking people up more than it was about what they were saying.

[01:27:29] That scene in She's All That, when Lainey kind of does her performance art at the coffee shop.

[01:27:36] Oh, yeah.

[01:27:38] Yeah.

[01:27:38] And she's just like, there's like random screaming at the audience.

[01:27:41] But I do, fun fact, this is not the first time that Dada is referenced in Buffy.

[01:27:49] We get it again.

[01:27:51] It's, well, it's later on when Spike is making a comment about the Buffy bots speech habits.

[01:28:00] It's a little spoiler.

[01:28:01] Oh, okay.

[01:28:01] But it works.

[01:28:03] Yep.

[01:28:06] Oh, man.

[01:28:08] So in a slightly different division of the podcast, let's talk trivia.

[01:28:13] Here are some of the script directions for the episode The Freshman.

[01:28:18] UC Sunnydale Library is described as unbelievably gigantoid.

[01:28:25] Very technical.

[01:28:27] I don't know if they really captured gigantoid because that is an actual library that really exists.

[01:28:33] And it didn't look all that huge to me.

[01:28:35] Gigantoid, I would think of as some of the sets on like The Expanse or Foundation or Dune Prophecy where the scale is like larger than human.

[01:28:45] Anyway.

[01:28:46] Yeah.

[01:28:47] Riley Finn is described as a junior, tall, and good looking with an open, honest face.

[01:28:55] When Buffy makes an idiot of herself when she and Willow first meet Riley, Riley smiles politely at this lamest of comments.

[01:29:01] Buffy trails behind the other two, awed by her own ineptitude.

[01:29:06] That's awed by her own ineptitude.

[01:29:09] That is the look that she had on her face.

[01:29:12] Yeah.

[01:29:12] That's perfect.

[01:29:13] Good job, Sarah Michelle Gellar.

[01:29:16] As always.

[01:29:18] And tying a little bit into Angel, which we will be covering, Christian Cain, who played Wolfram and Hart lawyer Lindsay McDonald on Angel, originally auditioned for the role of Riley Finn.

[01:29:30] And he told EW this by saying he auditioned for Buffy for the role that Mark Blukas has.

[01:29:36] And I do think, you know, Mark Blukas, I see him and I understand the description with an open, honest face.

[01:29:42] Yeah.

[01:29:43] He fits that perfectly.

[01:29:44] Perfect.

[01:29:45] It's really good casting for the character.

[01:29:48] Mm-hmm.

[01:29:49] We can talk later in the season about whether we like the character, though.

[01:29:54] Yeah.

[01:29:55] JW said the following at the posting board about the scene in The Freshman when Buffy's kicked out of class.

[01:30:01] Oh, wait.

[01:30:02] I have a sound clip I didn't play earlier.

[01:30:05] Oh, gosh.

[01:30:05] It makes me uncomfortable.

[01:30:07] Do you understand?

[01:30:09] You are sucking energy from everyone in this room.

[01:30:12] They came here to learn.

[01:30:15] Get out.

[01:30:19] I didn't mean to suck.

[01:30:22] Poor Buffy.

[01:30:24] Poor Buffy.

[01:30:24] That's such a nightmare situation.

[01:30:26] That's awful.

[01:30:28] I didn't mean to suck is so funny.

[01:30:30] That's such a funny thing to say.

[01:31:00] Don't.

[01:31:02] I bet people don't take it seriously, so you have to be extra serious.

[01:31:05] But, like, that was mean.

[01:31:06] He was just mean.

[01:31:07] And it's kind of like that tactic of an authority figure picking one person to make an example of.

[01:31:14] Yeah.

[01:31:15] With her fucking in class.

[01:31:18] There's a scene in Legally Blonde that's very similar where Reese Witherspoon gets kicked out of a class on the first day.

[01:31:25] Oh, yeah.

[01:31:26] To be made an example of.

[01:31:27] God, I love that movie.

[01:31:29] And I think we talked a little bit earlier, and I think you were talking about the filming locations of UC Sunnydale.

[01:31:37] And I think after season four, we see the San Diego locations.

[01:31:42] Oh, this was UCLA.

[01:31:43] Yes.

[01:31:44] So for the first, for season four, most of the exterior shots are at UCLA in Westwood.

[01:31:50] And the library that they go to is the Powell Library on the UCLA campus.

[01:31:57] But later on, depictions of UC Sunnydale are at different locations.

[01:32:03] Got it.

[01:32:05] There was a deleted line from the episode.

[01:32:08] Sunday said about Buffy's class protector award.

[01:32:11] What better way to say I am the very most of geek?

[01:32:16] I'm glad they took that out.

[01:32:18] Yeah, me too.

[01:32:18] Like, eh.

[01:32:19] No.

[01:32:20] Fun fact.

[01:32:21] The man in the bronze who looked like Angel was actually Angel because David Boreanaz came back on set and portrayed Angel in that moment.

[01:32:31] Up until the point his face became visible when he was replaced with another actor.

[01:32:36] I thought they did a really good job finding an actor who looked just enough like David Boreanaz.

[01:32:41] That was well cast.

[01:32:43] 100%.

[01:32:44] I love this.

[01:32:46] The original storyline for the character of Sunday was that she was a former Slayer turned vampire.

[01:32:52] JW also mentioned his regret of killing her off so quickly as he admitted she made for an interesting character.

[01:32:58] By the time he realized that, of course, it was too late.

[01:33:03] That would have been really interesting.

[01:33:06] I've always wanted to see a Slayer turned vampire because I'm like, would they be like a super vampire?

[01:33:11] Right?

[01:33:11] Or would they just be like, how would that affect their vampire-ness?

[01:33:16] That would be fascinating.

[01:33:18] Maybe it's in one of the comics.

[01:33:21] I wonder.

[01:33:22] There are so many comics.

[01:33:24] There's bound to be some storyline like that.

[01:33:28] And then we did, of course, already talk about how Pedro Pascal really benefited from the residuals he got from this episode.

[01:33:39] And it kept him from becoming homeless at a time when he had, he said, just $7 in his bank account.

[01:33:47] And recently, in 2023, Sarah Michelle Gellar posted a photo on her Instagram of that scene in this episode with Pedro Pascal.

[01:33:57] And there was a red carpet interview with Pedro with Entertainment Tonight where one of the interviewers mentioned it to him in passing.

[01:34:08] And Pedro was surprised and pretty thrilled and moved that Sarah Michelle Gellar remembered him from their brief scenes together.

[01:34:18] And I thought his quotes talking about his experience on the episode were really sweet.

[01:34:25] And they asked him what he remembered from his experience working on this episode.

[01:34:29] And he said, everything.

[01:34:31] Absolutely everything.

[01:34:32] I remember she, Sarah Michelle Gellar, had ice cream in her trailer and she gave me some.

[01:34:38] She went back to her trailer.

[01:34:39] She got me some ice cream and she shared because it was a night shoot.

[01:34:42] It was the middle of the night and we were on the UCLA campus.

[01:34:46] They hadn't built their college sets yet.

[01:34:48] I actually had to said I was doing a play in Long Beach and I had to miss opening night because we had to shoot this very, very short moment.

[01:34:55] I remember everything.

[01:34:56] I could go on and on.

[01:34:57] I could give you a step-by-step every detail.

[01:35:01] I had to have lunch in the vamp mask, in the vamp face mask, which I could only imagine how fun it was to eat with that makeup on your face.

[01:35:11] And then later, on the same red carpet, an Access Hollywood reporter asked Pedro about the same post.

[01:35:19] And he said, you know, I just basically I just found out about it, which I'm very excited about.

[01:35:24] And I can't wait to get my phone back so I can look it up for myself.

[01:35:28] He was basically making the point that he was so excited that Sarah Michelle Gellar remembers him, which is absolutely precious.

[01:35:35] And he again said, I remember every moment of shooting that episode as brief as it was.

[01:35:40] She was such a kind scene partner and we had the best time.

[01:35:43] And the interviewer then showed him some stills from the episode.

[01:35:48] And he said, this is Eddie and the episode is the freshman.

[01:35:51] It's the season four premiere.

[01:35:53] It was a super big deal.

[01:35:54] I hang out with her for a little bit.

[01:35:57] And as soon as she says goodbye to me, he's killed.

[01:36:02] I just thought it was so precious how enthusiastically he talked about that and how thrilled he was that Sarah Michelle Gellar remembered him.

[01:36:12] And of course, this is in 2023 when he has blown up.

[01:36:16] Yeah.

[01:36:17] The Last of Us is out.

[01:36:18] He's been in all these great movies.

[01:36:21] He had done that amazing stretch on Game of Thrones that everybody was talking about.

[01:36:27] Like, yeah, he was huge.

[01:36:29] And he like turned into like a young fan in those interviews.

[01:36:35] He's like, she remembers me?

[01:36:37] Like, oh my God.

[01:36:38] It's so cute.

[01:36:39] He just, Pedro Pascal always just seems so genuine and pure.

[01:36:44] I just love him.

[01:36:45] They were, they were talking, that was right around when the internet started calling him daddy all the time.

[01:36:51] And because I think mostly his role in The Last of Us sort of bumped him into the daddy status.

[01:36:59] And at the time, Sarah Michelle Gellar was playing the werewolf mom on that show Wolfpack.

[01:37:06] And the post actually, the caption was, when mother met father.

[01:37:13] That's fantastic.

[01:37:15] Oh, gosh.

[01:37:17] It's just so cute.

[01:37:18] Gotta love it.

[01:37:19] She has been hitting the interview circuit again lately because of this new show.

[01:37:25] We'll get to that in news.

[01:37:26] But before we go there, I have to ask you, does it still slay?

[01:37:34] You know, I have to say yes.

[01:37:36] Shocking.

[01:37:37] No one probably at this point.

[01:37:39] But while it's not my favorite season premiere, I think it does a really great job, you know, orienting Buffy into this new environment and setting up what's to come, which is a fantastic season.

[01:37:55] How about you?

[01:37:57] I agree.

[01:37:58] I love this episode because I love Sunday so much.

[01:38:02] I think she's such a fantastic vampire and it does, it sets up the whole season really beautifully.

[01:38:09] At the time, I wasn't loving season four at first.

[01:38:12] The switch to college was sort of disorienting for me.

[01:38:15] But now that I know where it goes, watching it just makes me so happy.

[01:38:19] I'm like, oh, I know where this is going.

[01:38:21] And like, I'm so happy.

[01:38:22] It is nice on a rewatch.

[01:38:24] Yeah, for sure.

[01:38:27] Let's get into some very exciting news.

[01:38:30] Carol, want to tell us?

[01:38:32] I squealed, I'm not going to lie, when I scrolled and saw this article pop up on my news feed.

[01:38:39] And as Penny mentioned, Sarah Michelle Gellar has been hitting the interview circuit pretty hard because she's starring in Dexter Original Sin, the Dexter prequel.

[01:38:50] And there is an article on Variety.

[01:38:54] And the title, we'll link it in the show notes, Sarah Michelle Gellar is now open to return for a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reboot.

[01:39:02] And I am very happy to hear that from her.

[01:39:07] So she appeared on the Drew Barrymore show and said that she had been considering reprising her role as Buffy in a potential project.

[01:39:15] She stated, I always used to say no because it's in its bubble and it's so perfect.

[01:39:21] But watching, and just like that, and seeing Dexter Original Sin, two spinoffs and prequels, she said, and realizing there are ways to do it definitely does get your mind thinking.

[01:39:33] Well, maybe.

[01:39:33] Gellar added that Buffy the Vampire Slayer would not necessarily need to be relegated to a prequel either.

[01:39:40] And that there could be a wealth of different narrative options to pursue.

[01:39:43] It could be anything, Gellar added.

[01:39:45] It's a universe.

[01:39:46] It makes you realize that in this world, we need those heroes, I think more so now than ever.

[01:39:54] And I wholeheartedly agree with her.

[01:39:56] I would love some more Buffy material to throw myself into, particularly after January 20th, I believe.

[01:40:06] And in 2023, the article goes on, the Golden Globe nominee expressed to SFX Magazine via IndieWire that she was not particularly interested in being involved in a Buffy revival.

[01:40:18] And she had said at that time, I'm very proud of the show that we created and it doesn't need to be done.

[01:40:24] And she said, we've wrapped that up.

[01:40:26] So I remember a bunch of fans, a lot of the chatter online being disappointed to hear that from her.

[01:40:32] And people seem very excited that she's open to it.

[01:40:37] Even considering it.

[01:40:38] Yeah.

[01:40:38] Yeah.

[01:40:38] I am.

[01:40:39] That is huge news.

[01:40:41] Really.

[01:40:41] I would love to have her back in the role of Buffy.

[01:40:44] And I would love to see where that character is 20 years later with, you know, the events of season seven and where all that stuff went.

[01:40:51] But that universe has a lot of directions that somebody could go in that don't even need to have Buffy in them.

[01:40:59] I just most particularly would want her to be in them.

[01:41:02] But there's room for a lot of other material in that universe.

[01:41:06] It'd be so good.

[01:41:08] Yeah.

[01:41:08] We've talked about this so many times.

[01:41:10] Like, there's so many ways they could spin that off and we'd all be so happy.

[01:41:17] Let's get into some feedback.

[01:41:19] Not a ton for this episode, but great feedback nonetheless.

[01:41:26] Bronze things.

[01:41:27] Things of bronze.

[01:41:30] You want to start us off?

[01:41:32] Sure.

[01:41:33] I love Jolene kept it simple and to the point and said, ah, Pedro with a heart eyes emoji.

[01:41:43] Indeed.

[01:41:43] Yeah.

[01:41:45] Yeah.

[01:41:46] Karen said, I didn't like the whole Buffy's weak because her confidence is low plot.

[01:41:51] I get that the transition to college will be difficult for her.

[01:41:54] But yeah, I wouldn't have made that choice.

[01:41:56] And Joyce, my love, don't start doing stuff to the kids room until they're out of college.

[01:42:01] Aww.

[01:42:06] I lost my room before I'd even left the driveway.

[01:42:09] Oh, man.

[01:42:11] Oh, gosh.

[01:42:12] I don't remember when I think my little brother took my room over when I left for college.

[01:42:17] Yeah.

[01:42:18] My brothers moved into my room because it was bigger than theirs.

[01:42:21] Makes sense.

[01:42:22] That's funny.

[01:42:23] But I love that.

[01:42:25] Joyce really didn't even seem fazed or to notice that her daughter was having a hard time.

[01:42:31] She's just like, no.

[01:42:32] I really didn't think I'd see you.

[01:42:33] Yeah.

[01:42:35] But I'm always happy to see Joyce because I just love her.

[01:42:38] I know.

[01:42:39] Oh, goodness.

[01:42:40] And we got an email.

[01:42:41] So excited about this one from Doug.

[01:42:45] Doug says, hi, Penny Karen, Sam.

[01:42:47] After listening to the Cast of the Rings collab with TVPI, I went to Podcastica to see slash

[01:42:54] hear what felt right.

[01:42:55] And there was still slang.

[01:42:57] Perfect.

[01:42:58] Aww.

[01:42:59] He said, I watched Buffy season three, episode 22, graduation day, part two, and have just

[01:43:03] finished your potting.

[01:43:05] That's a word, right?

[01:43:06] On it.

[01:43:06] I love that.

[01:43:07] It's a word now, Doug.

[01:43:09] Yeah.

[01:43:09] He said, love the flow, chemistry, enthusiasm, breakdown, punctuated with fun semi-sequiturs,

[01:43:17] and new information on this classic series.

[01:43:19] My only questions are, would you mind if I came along for the ride?

[01:43:23] And when are you beginning seasons four and one of Buffy and Angel?

[01:43:27] I couldn't find the schedule on Podcastica.

[01:43:29] He said, peace and take care.

[01:43:32] Coughing Vodka?

[01:43:34] That's a great username.

[01:43:36] He said, Doug slash Luss.

[01:43:38] First, of course, you can come along for the ride.

[01:43:41] Yeah.

[01:43:42] We are thrilled to have you.

[01:43:44] I've been listening to TV podcast industries for a while now, and especially shows that

[01:43:51] aren't covered by Podcastica.

[01:43:53] And Coffee and Vodka sends in lots of great feedback.

[01:43:56] So I'm super excited to have him along for this.

[01:44:00] This is going to be great.

[01:44:01] That's so fun.

[01:44:02] And I'm glad that you did not mind our semi-sequiturs, as you put it.

[01:44:07] Yeah.

[01:44:08] Because that's a regular feature.

[01:44:10] Yep.

[01:44:10] Those are bound to happen.

[01:44:12] And he also said, P.S.

[01:44:13] Thanks for mentioning realistic conflict theory.

[01:44:17] Now I have an official name for what I formerly called and had once falsely thought an original

[01:44:22] idea on my part.

[01:44:24] Socioeconomic control theory, or I love this, January 6th syndrome.

[01:44:29] Awesome.

[01:44:30] Awesome.

[01:44:31] We are happy to have you.

[01:44:32] I love a new feedback sender inner.

[01:44:36] Yes.

[01:44:36] And I'm excited about moving into season four and season one of Angel.

[01:44:42] It's all, everything's great from here on out.

[01:44:45] Right.

[01:44:46] All right.

[01:44:47] So that's the end of the main section of the podcast.

[01:44:50] Stay tuned for the Watcher's Diaries if you want to hear a little spoilery discussion.

[01:44:57] And if you'd like to join the conversation, you can find all of our contact information at

[01:45:02] podcastica.com and in the show notes for each episode.

[01:45:06] Also at podcastica.com, you'll find links to our social media pages and all of our other

[01:45:11] shows.

[01:45:13] And as coffee and vodka just mentioned, there's cast of the rings that we just wrapped up

[01:45:19] a few weeks ago covering the season two of rings of power.

[01:45:25] And then we did a post season wrap up crossover with TV podcast industries and their coverage

[01:45:31] of rings of power.

[01:45:32] That was so fun.

[01:45:33] And we will be covering the new Tolkien movie that's out in theaters right now called war

[01:45:39] of the will hear him.

[01:45:40] I saw it two days ago and loved it.

[01:45:45] And we're going to be recording that coverage sometime early in the new year.

[01:45:50] So I assume that this movie is what lots of people are going to do in the afternoon on

[01:45:56] Christmas day with their families.

[01:45:58] It's perfect for that.

[01:45:59] So do that.

[01:46:01] Then like sit by yourself for a few minutes with a hot apple cider or something or some

[01:46:06] eggnog and then type up your thoughts on the movie and send them into us so that we'll cover

[01:46:11] that on cast of the rings.

[01:46:13] Yeah.

[01:46:14] And I have just finished listening to Paik and Daphne's coverage of the new Star Wars

[01:46:19] series Skeleton Crew, which is perfect to mention in this episode with Phantom Menace.

[01:46:25] They do a great job covering it.

[01:46:28] I always listen, love listening to both Paik and Daphne.

[01:46:31] So if you're a Star Wars fan, definitely check that out.

[01:46:34] And if you like what we do, please go ahead and give us a five star rating, a review or a

[01:46:41] like, a follow or subscribe to our content.

[01:46:44] And be sure to tune in next time when we'll be covering season one, episode one of Angel

[01:46:53] called City Of.

[01:46:55] Thanks everyone.

[01:46:56] And he said he wasn't coming back until he'd driven to all 50 states.

[01:47:01] Did you explain about Hawaii?

[01:47:04] Well, he seemed so determined.

[01:47:07] Oh, it's the end.

[01:47:09] So precious.

[01:47:09] I mean, you could, in theory, get your car to Hawaii on some kind of ferry, but I imagine

[01:47:16] it would cost like more than Xander's ever seen in his entire life.

[01:47:23] All right.

[01:47:24] That's the end of the non-spoiler section.

[01:47:25] And if you want to avoid spoilers, now's the time to stop listening.

[01:47:30] All right.

[01:47:31] That was enough time.

[01:47:32] We're going to move on to The Watcher's Diaries.

[01:47:37] It's too bad we can't sneak a look at The Watcher Diaries.

[01:47:40] I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell.

[01:47:42] Yeah.

[01:47:44] That's too bad.

[01:47:45] That stuff is private.

[01:47:47] Also, Giles keeps them in his office in his personal files.

[01:47:52] Most importantly, it would be wrong.

[01:47:59] There are so many little bits and pieces in this episode.

[01:48:03] One thing we didn't talk about is the very, very last scene.

[01:48:07] We see one of Sunday's lackey vampires running and he gets tased and stopped by three dudes

[01:48:17] in sort of army-ish outfits with-

[01:48:20] Very mysterious.

[01:48:21] With like ski masks on so you can't see their faces.

[01:48:25] And that's all we know.

[01:48:27] Like they captured a vampire with electricity and then fade to black.

[01:48:30] So ominous.

[01:48:34] We know, of course, that this is the initiative.

[01:48:37] They are going to be part of the big season four overarching plot.

[01:48:44] That was a nice way to kind of subtly introduce them.

[01:48:49] Yeah.

[01:48:49] And it's funny because I always forget that that even happened.

[01:48:53] Like when I think back on the series, in my head, the first time we find out about the

[01:48:59] initiative is when they catch Spike.

[01:49:01] But it's not.

[01:49:02] We see this scene first.

[01:49:04] And then Spike meets this vampire when he's in containment.

[01:49:07] Oh, yeah.

[01:49:08] I am so excited for Spike in season four.

[01:49:13] He comes soon too.

[01:49:15] It's like episode three or four that we get Spike back.

[01:49:18] That's what I can't wait.

[01:49:20] And Harmony.

[01:49:21] Harmony!

[01:49:22] Yes!

[01:49:24] Harmony.

[01:49:24] The only reason that Sunday wouldn't have worked in season four continuing is because

[01:49:30] Harmony sort of fills the spot of like pretty blonde, mean vampire.

[01:49:37] Yeah.

[01:49:38] And she does it so beautifully.

[01:49:40] She does it so well.

[01:49:42] Harmony is one of my favorite characters in the Buffyverse.

[01:49:45] She's so funny.

[01:49:47] It's just so, so, so funny.

[01:49:48] It's perfect.

[01:49:49] And we met Maggie Walsh, you know, and she introduces herself to her class by referencing

[01:49:56] that her TAs call her the bitch monster of death.

[01:50:00] And at first you just think that's like a funny name for a tough professor.

[01:50:03] But of course, she is the bitch monster of death.

[01:50:07] And we know that her TAs are all members of the initiative.

[01:50:13] So like she's telling this room full of freshman students that she's like an evil scientist.

[01:50:21] I can't stand her.

[01:50:24] Or she's the worst.

[01:50:26] Like, it's funny with, and we'll obviously go into this in a ton more detail, but it's

[01:50:30] funny how season four really gives me some of my favorite Buffy moments and some of my

[01:50:36] absolute least favorite Buffy moments.

[01:50:39] And a lot of that is thanks to Professor Walsh.

[01:50:42] So we'll see.

[01:50:43] We'll see how that goes.

[01:50:45] And she is, she is indeed the evil bitch monster of death and, or real.

[01:50:53] It's one of those things, like, so I was saying before, like, I used to hate Riley.

[01:50:57] Like when the season was airing, I was always like, Riley's so boring.

[01:51:02] He's not good enough for Buffy.

[01:51:06] But now that I've seen, you know, where the whole show goes, I love Riley.

[01:51:12] And I'm like, oh, he really did come along in Buffy's life at a time when she needed somebody

[01:51:18] like kind and sweet.

[01:51:20] She didn't need at this point to have somebody in her life who challenged her or who was like

[01:51:26] full of darkness.

[01:51:27] Right?

[01:51:27] Like Angel was so broody.

[01:51:29] And like later she's going to hook up with Spike and Spike is always like, they're always

[01:51:33] sparring, even when they're on good terms.

[01:51:35] There's, there's always like, there's always some kind of competition, fighting, like there's

[01:51:40] a, until he gets his soul back, there's a lot of threat of violence.

[01:51:43] But like, even when he has his soul back, he still pushes her constantly.

[01:51:47] Right?

[01:51:47] There's like, there's like this crackle between them.

[01:51:51] But with Riley.

[01:51:53] Especially at first, Riley is what she needs.

[01:51:56] He's so sweet.

[01:51:57] He really is like just a solidly sweet person.

[01:52:01] Even when he does bad stuff, it's like kind of sweet.

[01:52:04] Like his motivations are always sweet.

[01:52:06] The way they introduce him ultimately in a couple episodes is after that jackass.

[01:52:12] Was it Parker?

[01:52:13] Oh, Parker.

[01:52:15] Yeah.

[01:52:15] I hate Parker.

[01:52:16] I think a lot of people in college experienced a Parker and Riley kind of saves the day with

[01:52:23] that.

[01:52:23] And that endeared, obviously, I think it was intentional, endeared me to him more.

[01:52:27] Yeah.

[01:52:28] Yeah.

[01:52:28] I think a lot of people, I mean, there's no subtlety about hating Parker.

[01:52:33] This is not a hot take, right?

[01:52:35] Everybody hates Parker.

[01:52:36] I hope everybody hates Parker.

[01:52:38] And if you don't, I don't want to hear it.

[01:52:40] Yeah.

[01:52:40] What's wrong with you?

[01:52:42] Parker sucks.

[01:52:43] Yes.

[01:52:43] Um, I think I, I quote Xander.

[01:52:47] Who else really wants to hit that guy?

[01:52:49] I think that's what Xander says about Parker.

[01:52:52] Um, he's the worst.

[01:52:53] But, uh, yeah, Riley really grows on me more and more as the years pass.

[01:53:00] I, I have more and more fondness for his character.

[01:53:04] And as we mature, maybe.

[01:53:06] Yeah.

[01:53:07] I think at least that's part of it for me.

[01:53:10] He's, he's boring in a good way.

[01:53:14] Yeah.

[01:53:15] To a certain extent, like he's a good guy and he is definitely what Buffy needs.

[01:53:22] And he gives her some valuable semi-normal relationship experience.

[01:53:28] Yeah.

[01:53:29] Obviously he's involved in something complicated because it's Buffy, but he, he does.

[01:53:35] But at least he's human.

[01:53:36] Offer.

[01:53:37] Yeah.

[01:53:37] Thank goodness.

[01:53:37] He offers something very valuable to her.

[01:53:40] So about a year after this, I was, I, I had a crush on this guy and my brother met him.

[01:53:49] Um, and I asked my brother what he thought of this guy and he said, Riley's okay.

[01:53:57] And the guy's name was not Riley, but as soon as my brother said it, it was all I needed

[01:54:03] to realize that this guy was way too boring for me and would never be the right person.

[01:54:09] That's so funny.

[01:54:10] It's so indicative of the way my brother and I have a similar vocabulary and, and can

[01:54:16] sometimes talk to each other in shorthand.

[01:54:18] Like he used two words to express to me the very complicated concept of there's nothing

[01:54:28] wrong with this guy.

[01:54:29] He's just not interesting enough for you.

[01:54:32] Yeah.

[01:54:33] Yeah.

[01:54:33] And he was right.

[01:54:34] And it was hilarious.

[01:54:37] And I was like, yep, you're right.

[01:54:39] He's Riley.

[01:54:40] I might as well skip this part and not be interested in that guy.

[01:54:44] Um, nothing against the guy.

[01:54:47] I'm sure he's doing well now and not listening to this podcast.

[01:54:53] Oh gosh.

[01:54:54] Something else we didn't talk about was that silent phone call that.

[01:55:00] Oh yeah.

[01:55:00] Yeah.

[01:55:00] Yeah.

[01:55:01] Steve's in the kitchen.

[01:55:03] Next episode that will be revealed.

[01:55:06] Yes.

[01:55:06] Next episode of this podcast, not next episode.

[01:55:09] Yeah.

[01:55:09] Buffy.

[01:55:09] I love the way that they do those little subtle crossovers of Buffy and Angel.

[01:55:16] It's nice how they tie things in.

[01:55:19] This show was on the early side of self-consciously and intentionally using lots of little Easter

[01:55:27] eggs for the audience.

[01:55:29] This, this show was very savvy about how audience psychology works and they know that giving you

[01:55:36] little things like that, that you can recognize and be like, aha, I'm on the inside.

[01:55:40] I know this joke will reward you and make you enjoy your viewing experience more.

[01:55:47] And it makes you a more sticky viewer, right?

[01:55:49] You stay around more because you're getting these little rewards.

[01:55:53] Um, I don't think that before the nineties television makers were as savvy and, and also

[01:56:03] serialized TV where there was like ongoing stories and characters grew over time and changed

[01:56:09] over time were still pretty new in anything except soap operas, right?

[01:56:14] Like this was the beginning of like, you know, like the shield and the Sopranos and these

[01:56:22] shows that had longer, more complicated serialized stories.

[01:56:26] Buffy was one of the forerunners there, as well as being one of the first shows that had

[01:56:31] a action woman who wasn't just like a Barbie.

[01:56:36] Um, I, it's a big deal.

[01:56:40] It's a, yeah, it was a real sea change in entertainment.

[01:56:43] You know, this is before streaming, but after the proliferation of cable networks, there was

[01:56:49] a lot more content to choose from.

[01:56:52] TV shows had to step up and be a little bit more progressive and forward thinking in their

[01:57:00] content and their, um, structure and style and narrative devices to keep viewers.

[01:57:09] Didn't the Sopranos premiere in 99?

[01:57:14] I don't remember.

[01:57:15] It was around this time.

[01:57:17] Right.

[01:57:18] Like, cause I feel like there were a lot of shows that my parents would watch that I was

[01:57:23] allowed to watch.

[01:57:24] Yeah.

[01:57:24] And I feel like HBO, cause I remember Oz, I obviously had, that had come out a few years

[01:57:31] before.

[01:57:32] Yep.

[01:57:32] Yeah.

[01:57:33] January 10th, 1999, the Sopranos.

[01:57:35] Okay.

[01:57:36] And Oz, obviously I was not watching that at 15, but I remember, I know, but I remember

[01:57:43] my parents watching it and like HBO, if that was on the TV, then I was not allowed in the

[01:57:50] room and like you're talking about the idea of these more complex storylines for people

[01:57:56] to follow.

[01:57:57] I think Buffy did it in such a relatable way and seemingly with such ease of weaving the

[01:58:06] storylines of Buffy and Angel together.

[01:58:08] It's going to be, it's going to be really fun to cover.

[01:58:11] And then of course, um, one of the most painful moments of foreshadowing is Buffy making that

[01:58:19] joke about her mom getting the bill for her books and say, Oh God, I hope it's a funny

[01:58:26] aneurysm.

[01:58:26] I was just like, Oh no, it won't be when we get there.

[01:58:30] It really won't be funny.

[01:58:31] It's not funny at all.

[01:58:34] The number of times.

[01:58:35] It is the opposite of funny.

[01:58:37] I'm in a few different like Buffy fan groups on Facebook.

[01:58:42] And the number of times I've seen somebody post, I just watched the body for the first time.

[01:58:48] I didn't know.

[01:58:50] Nobody told me like,

[01:58:53] I'm sorry.

[01:58:55] Yeah.

[01:58:55] Like I watched the body again and it just really brings up a lot of stuff for me.

[01:59:00] And like that, that, I skipped that episode on rewatches.

[01:59:04] I have not seen that episode in years.

[01:59:08] Oh, that's going to be fun to cover then.

[01:59:10] Yeah.

[01:59:10] I'm going to, I'm going to have to watch a couple of times because the first time it's

[01:59:15] just going to be tears.

[01:59:16] Oh yeah.

[01:59:16] That's a, that's a weep fest.

[01:59:18] That episode is really, it's so beautiful though.

[01:59:21] It's so well done.

[01:59:22] It is.

[01:59:23] It's fantastic and brutal all at the same time.

[01:59:28] Looking forward to the rest of this season though, before we get to the body, which is

[01:59:32] season five, we have a couple of my favorite episodes ever are coming.

[01:59:39] Something blue.

[01:59:40] Yes.

[01:59:41] Oh my God.

[01:59:42] Something blue is, it's like one of my go-to, like I had a bad day.

[01:59:45] I'm going to watch something blue episodes.

[01:59:47] Hush is so famous.

[01:59:50] Iconic.

[01:59:51] People talk about Hush, like it's hard to explain how great that episode is and what

[01:59:58] an impact it had on everybody who watched it.

[02:00:01] There are, there's the, the faith return, which is also fantastic.

[02:00:09] What's it called?

[02:00:10] Next year's girl or this year's girl.

[02:00:11] Yeah.

[02:00:13] Yeah.

[02:00:13] There's a lot of great stuff.

[02:00:15] Oh, the werewolf storylines.

[02:00:17] There's just so much coming and we're really excited to be back doing still slaying and,

[02:00:23] and re-revisiting.

[02:00:25] The Halloween episode in this season is really great too.

[02:00:30] All right.

[02:00:30] That's the end.

[02:00:32] The complete end of our show.

[02:00:34] Thank you everyone for listening.

[02:00:36] And until next time, I'm Penny.

[02:00:38] And I'm Kara.

[02:00:40] Keep slaying.

[02:01:34] Let me get that out of my system.

[02:01:36] Words.