4: "Ted" (BTVS S2E11)

[00:00:00] He wants to know everything about you, he's concerned that's a good thing.

[00:00:11] Oh nice shot Ted.

[00:00:14] Keep your eye on the ball. Watch those elbows.

[00:00:18] Oh bad luck little lady.

[00:00:23] No we won't count it. We won't.

[00:00:25] Just minute your call.

[00:00:27] It is but the rules are the rules and what we teacher is what she takes out into the world when we're not there.

[00:00:33] Whether it's at school or an unshapour own party.

[00:00:37] I don't mean to overstep my bounds, this is between you and your mother. I just think right is right.

[00:00:45] He has a point.

[00:00:47] Fine. I'll just go hit my ball from the roof.

[00:00:55] Hey, how about that? Got a hole in two.

[00:01:00] Bag to differ.

[00:01:04] Okay so find my score or whatever.

[00:01:07] I think you're missing the point here little lady. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. Why don't people see that?

[00:01:15] It's just a game.

[00:01:18] Right is just a game. Do your own thing. Well I'm not wired that way and I'm here to tell you it is not a game.

[00:01:25] It does count and I don't stand for that kind of malarkey in my house.

[00:01:30] I guess it's a good thing I'm not in your house.

[00:01:34] Do you want me to slap that smart ass mouth of yours?

[00:01:38] Who's up for dessert?

[00:01:40] I made you a good one.

[00:01:43] Who's up for dessert? I made chocolate chip cookies.

[00:01:50] Yeah, me cookies.

[00:01:53] Yeah, I made too many so you guys are going to have to take some home.

[00:01:58] Buffy you've got to try one of these are really good.

[00:02:13] Hello everybody. Welcome to our podcast on Penny I'm Kara and I'm Randy and this is still slang a Buffy verse podcast dedicated to all things Buffy.

[00:02:41] This episode we're going to start with highlights from season two episodes seven eight nine and ten.

[00:02:48] Then go deep about Ted season two episode 11 directed by Bruce Seth Green and written by David Greenwald Rob DeSotel Dean Patal and Marty Noxon original air date December 8 1997.

[00:03:04] Randy welcome to still slaying listeners you may or may not know that Randy is one of the co hosts of the welcome to the white Lotus podcast on the podcast to connect work and he's been a guest on a bunch of other podcasts.

[00:03:21] Yeah, I'm making the rounds.

[00:03:24] Oh no, you've set the bar too high.

[00:03:28] I think it'll be fun.

[00:03:32] Randy, why don't you tell us a little bit about your personal history with with Buffy the vampire slayer.

[00:03:38] So I around the time this came out it was super I was super into shows that were paranormal in nature so ex files anything that I go through anything in it.

[00:03:50] Buffy really fit into that for sure.

[00:03:54] At that point I wasn't watching it religiously by any time I caught an episode I would sit down and watch it.

[00:04:02] But then a few years back may have been more my wife who's a big fan we both sat down and went through the entire show.

[00:04:13] And we also went through all of angel and we made sure we watched them according to the air dates so that we if there are any crossovers we were going to catch it and yeah it's such a fun show.

[00:04:28] It's phenomenal I hope that we can get your wife on a future episode.

[00:04:33] Anybody who has the passion for Buffy we want to hear from you.

[00:04:37] For sure.

[00:04:40] No Sam here's how old were you when this episode aired?

[00:04:45] I think this episode I was 11 I want to say.

[00:04:50] That makes me feel a little better.

[00:04:52] I was 9.

[00:04:55] So there may be a few who was probably old enough.

[00:04:59] Yeah I mean I do remember you said original air date December 8th 1997 Titanic came out my Christmas break that of fourth grade on December 19th of 1997 so that is what I associate this with.

[00:05:15] Yeah I don't know if I was old enough to see Titanic either I saw it seven times in theater in theater in theater with either you know my mom multiple times or different friends that kept wanting to go so it was what was that song called my home.

[00:05:35] I will go on yeah that was my piano recital song that year as I was for many people.

[00:05:41] Yeah so a few years ago.

[00:05:45] Good old good old 1997 when it came to shows I was allowed to watch the only show I would say the only thing I wasn't allowed to watch was the Simpsons.

[00:05:56] And it's because my mom said at one point Bart Simpson pulled down his pants and like had Washington drawn on his butt and moond everybody but I owned all of the night Marin Elm Streets all the Friday that they were.

[00:06:11] Those were fine but if you moond somebody that is too far too far so what was on the allowed list.

[00:06:20] Yeah so I was so funny where parents draw the line yeah at this point let's see 97 I was in my 20s so I was out on my own but when I was a kid when I was a really little kid my parents were pretty strict about like we didn't have sugary cereals in the house and we didn't go to McDonald's and we were only allowed to watch like PBS.

[00:06:43] When I was a teenager I think my mom was just tired and my younger siblings would be like at my slumber parties watching like porkeys revenge my teenage friends my little like six year old sisters like 3am like eating popcorn watching horror movies with us.

[00:07:07] It was just a totally different childhood and we had all the sugar cereals. Yeah like all of them it's just very different childhoods. That's what happens when you are one of five kids. I suspect there was just something on at the same time as the Simpsons that I now wanted to watch so rather than just saying she wanted to she was like we're not watching this in this house.

[00:07:31] Yeah that's fair yes. Yes and of course back then most houses had one or two TVs the spoiled kids with their devices in their pockets.

[00:07:44] And they're streaming services and yeah you can watch anything you want. Yeah are watching.

[00:07:51] Obviously Netflix discs so that was complicated to like do angel and Buffy at the same time.

[00:07:59] I was like speaking of the past I was looking at the recap of what we skipped for episode you know seven eight nine and ten and this first one light a me which was episode seven.

[00:08:12] The guy who played for Jason bear I was obsessed with Roswell and it sent me into a flashback of you know like middle school elementary and middle school me. It's a good one.

[00:08:27] Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So for those who want a recap in light of me Buffy's childhood friend Ford who was played by Roswell star Jason bear.

[00:08:40] Transfer to Sunnydale high and Buffy is thrilled but Ford is not exactly telling the truth he knows that Buffy is a slayer and he has an agenda.

[00:08:50] He tracks down spike and offers up Buffy in exchange for immortality showing that even childhood friends can turn on you didn't go too well for some of the people in that episode like Ford but I definitely encourage you to watch that one if you haven't seen it.

[00:09:09] I'm going to wrap up and with a few friends as well there are turn on me for immortality it's like come on.

[00:09:16] It's probably a real occupational hazard for sliders yeah.

[00:09:21] In 2.8 the dark age this is the episode where we get to learn more about Jiles's past Ethan rain from the Halloween episode returns to Sunnydale and Jiles's past is coming back to kill him.

[00:09:38] The friends are in town and one of them is possessed by the demon Igon. Igon was the demon that he and his friends summoned when they were teenagers and would control and let possess them for thrills and Igon wants revenge.

[00:09:54] The revelations about Jiles's dark youth shock the Scooby gang but as an audience member I think they really deepen and enrich the Jiles character.

[00:10:05] Ethan kidnaps Buffy and transfers his tattoo of the mark of Igon onto her so that Igon will attack her instead of him.

[00:10:15] The demon at this point has possessed Jenny calendar attacks Buffy. Willow saves the day again with the brilliant idea to try to get Igon to possess angel because of course angel is undead and

[00:10:33] the lesson from the episode is that even your stalwart anchor person your Jiles can can disappoint you can have a dark side.

[00:10:42] Everybody has a past you never really know.

[00:10:47] Well the next two episodes are a two-parter 2.9 and 2.10 what's my line parts one and two career fair at Sunnydale high only serves to remind Buffy that her future has been chosen for her.

[00:11:06] Meanwhile spike is on a mission to cure Jusilla. He assembles ingredients for a spell including the blood of Jusilla's sire angel.

[00:11:15] He calls in the order of Taraka a cult of assassins to hunt and kill Buffy. Buffy takes the first one out with a graceful skate and slay maneuver.

[00:11:25] Another surprise visitor is Kendra. Queen figures Bianca Lawson with a stereotypical Caribbean accent, the vampire slayer.

[00:11:36] Buffy isn't the only one anymore since her death and resurrection at the end of season one the two slayers compare tactics training and watchers learning to trust in like each other and find strength and having a peer.

[00:11:49] Kendra helps Buffy admit that being the slayer is more than a job and Buffy teaches Kendra to loosen up, field her emotions and embrace commercial air travel.

[00:11:59] Kendra also helps Buffy save angel despite him being a vampire. Jusilla is ultimately cured but spike is gravely injured.

[00:12:09] Oz and Willow finally meet Zander and Cordelia Kis was Kendra the first character of color in this series?

[00:12:18] I think so. There may have been like extras that are not one but I think she's the first like speaking right they have character.

[00:12:29] Name.

[00:12:32] Yeah and they didn't give a.

[00:12:37] That's not it's the show got a lot of black for that in the early days there was a lot of like so only white people live in this world like you know.

[00:12:48] And I think that they tried to course correct over time but it wasn't really until season seven that there's like more than one black character on screen with a name.

[00:13:04] And I do think one interesting thing is that they pay attention to the consequences of something like Buffy.

[00:13:14] So the fact that there are there is another slayer that appears because she has died there remembering their own rules and then like there are consequences to those actions it's not just yeah she died and she's back whatever.

[00:13:27] Oh it still happens I love that yeah.

[00:13:30] This was one of the early shows that was really serial in that way that had a lot of callbacks and foreshadowing and followed through on plots over several seasons.

[00:13:43] It was sort of assumed before this that most people wouldn't follow a show like that remembering that back then it was still like DCR's and you could only watch one show at a time and there was no streaming.

[00:13:56] So people had to choose and you missed episodes all the time.

[00:14:00] And so you know most people couldn't follow a really serialized show that like we have today like a like a walking dead or or you know the last of us because here imagine game of the whole back in the year.

[00:14:14] If you missed it on episode you're just like well on out.

[00:14:20] Yeah I'm done or like someone's even five minutes you missed the beginning or the end you are like a world these people yeah game of throw to be so hard it was it was Buffy and then it sort of started happening and then lost as the show that really like people were willing to like miss personal life events in order to make sure they saw episodes lost.

[00:14:43] I remember that was the first show I ever looked at message boards lost just started it all so this week's episode that we're going to be talking about is one of my favorites although I say that every week.

[00:15:00] It's the episode that guest stars John Ritter and at the time it was kind of shocking that he was a gonna be on this WB show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer because he is a at the time was a really big star and also then.

[00:15:17] The revelation that he is a villain in the episode is just very much playing against time for John Ritter.

[00:15:24] He's had serious roles but mostly he's known as a comedian and he's super lovable so this was a really fun twisty surprise for viewers at the time to be like it's John Ritter.

[00:15:39] Oh wait John Ritter's creepy oh wait John Ritter's a robot like it was it was really fun.

[00:15:45] John Ritter is mostly known for three's company that's probably his most famous role but he's been in over a hundred movies and films.

[00:15:55] He's he did a certain amount of Broadway shows yes and he has a couple of kids that are in the industry as well.

[00:16:03] Jason Ritter is probably the better known the other one is named Tyler Jason is married to one of my favorite actors in the whole world Melanie Linsky

[00:16:13] and sometimes they work together and I'm always happy to see him he's so he definitely like has a little bit of his dad's physicality which is really nice even though he's definitely his own person.

[00:16:28] John Ritter too like my dad I think three's company was on Nick at night when I was a kid and it was one of my parents favorite shows so that was one that I grew up watching repeatedly.

[00:16:41] And then I was huge theater nerd in high school and John Ritter was in noises off both on Broadway and then the film which is one of the funniest plays in existence.

[00:16:56] I feel like and he is fantastic in it and by the time you know I started the rewatch of Buffy when I was in college I was thrilled to see him and I still remember the process of realizing that he was a bad guy

[00:17:15] what are you doing to John Ritter who is this terrible but now like it turns out fantastic because I think his character and you know the caliber of his acting skills anybody else in this role I don't think it would have worked as well.

[00:17:31] He does such a good job and I just I'm gonna have to try not to nerd out in this episode because I don't think anyone's gonna mind if he just he's fabulous.

[00:17:45] I immediately recognize him more from scrubs for being JD's father so a lot of this I was saying Zach Braff they look very similar at this age which is funny.

[00:17:59] Yeah they do that in what was that that problem child movie I thought that was all I went to with those all the time on cable when I was like I forgot about that.

[00:18:11] He also had a really fun guest starring part on Ali McBeele as a person trying to patent a silly walk.

[00:18:22] He's so wonderful his death in 2003 was really shocking and unexpected the time he was the star of a show called 10 rules for dating my teenage daughter.

[00:18:35] Yeah, eight simple rules eight some of rules that's one and they made the decision to continue the show and work his death into the plot and the family you know dealing with the loss of their father and husband.

[00:18:50] And it was really interesting and bold yeah yeah it was pretty amazing.

[00:18:58] In 1997 when this aired candle in the wind was number one on the charts again after it was for Halloween and in the UK it was tell it to be say a oh by this

[00:19:13] helotop that's fantastic.

[00:19:15] It's so funny.

[00:19:16] Did they not have any artists that year is that the problem?

[00:19:20] Like Sir Elton John English.

[00:19:23] No like no tell it to be.

[00:19:26] Yeah I took that year off.

[00:19:28] And Starship Troopers was number one at the box office that weekend I love that movie I think it's very underrated.

[00:19:37] It's such a good stand up still stands up.

[00:19:40] Yeah for sure.

[00:19:41] Similar to a Buffy vibe.

[00:19:43] Yeah very it's over the top and.

[00:19:47] It's sarcastic yeah.

[00:19:50] I found this this great summary of 1997.

[00:19:54] A new form of communication called text messaging is starting to become more widespread however it can only be done if both the sender and the receiver are on the same cell network.

[00:20:07] Meanwhile a global system called the internet is also starting to take off each day more and more people are learning how to send emails and browse websites on the worldwide web by connecting their IBM computers to noisy dial up.

[00:20:25] Oh that's sound.

[00:20:27] Oh my god why did it have to make that sounds ever burned in our brains.

[00:20:34] Remember all the AOL CDs that you would get for free like.

[00:20:39] Oh yeah I still have one.

[00:20:41] Oh my god and oh awesome that's like a museum.

[00:20:45] The CD is quickly becoming the dominant form format from music and people are buying portable players such as the disc man.

[00:20:55] Consequently sales of cassette tapes are continuing to decline.

[00:21:00] In fashion bright and metallic customers are all the rage a big change from the darker grunge colors of the earlier 90s women are wearing maxi skirts bell bottoms knee boots crop tops to top slip dresses maxi coats and platform shoes.

[00:21:15] All of which we will see in this in this series yeah.

[00:21:20] You like all of that is in fashion again practically.

[00:21:24] Yeah it is.

[00:21:25] It's totally what's happening.

[00:21:28] It's fantastic.

[00:21:30] So let's start on the episode Randy you want to dive in?

[00:21:37] I really like that and so all right let me preface actually I haven't watched any buffy sense that last rewatch so I've been following along in the podcast but I've not been rewatching the episodes so diving back in there are expectations I had at this point in the seasons.

[00:21:57] And just like what the show is so it was kind of interesting to happen to just a one sort of monster of the weekend and feel it out that way.

[00:22:07] But what I wanted to say surprise but I really enjoy the fact that buffy has such a strong team around her already at this point including Joyce when the police show up and they ask what happened.

[00:22:22] Joyce just says Ted fell she doesn't she knows something happened with buffy and she doesn't throw her under the boss it's buffy who eventually admits it and it's just amazing that she was so on tech team Ted until it came to defending buffy.

[00:22:39] Yeah and she she backs her up that way.

[00:22:44] And then later on after Ted dies despite being such a big fan of Ted Zander assumes the best with buffy when he finds out she's responsible for killing him he just says so what kind of monster was he.

[00:23:02] He doesn't ask any questions he just jumps right into like I know you are on the right side and I know he must have been a monster because you wouldn't just kill a human which is great.

[00:23:14] And it calls back to earlier on in the episode when buffy is describing Ted and all of his like good qualities and Zander jokingly goes well what kind of monster is he.

[00:23:27] But the next time he sees her he's like okay what kind of monster is he.

[00:23:32] Yeah yeah I just love how at this point it's only you know season two and these this she's got this team around who are just trust him believe in her and are willing to go to bat for her so quickly.

[00:23:45] It is nice the Scooby Yang and her support system are pretty much already fully formed.

[00:23:51] Yeah yeah which is surprising at this point you would assume even season two they'd still sort of be feeling each other out but it's there solidly together already.

[00:24:01] They're all in I mean she has saved their lives several times that's true yeah I think that solidifies loyalty they're all trying to do it right yeah.

[00:24:14] If you can't really talk to anybody else about like the vampires you keep running into you're probably going to stay pretty loyal to your group of friends you can talk about with that.

[00:24:25] That's true yeah I love that you brought up Joyce because she's not in on the secret yet but as we saw in school hard even when she's upset with buffy or disappointed with buffy her love for buffy is deep and strong.

[00:24:41] And it overrides all other concerns and it makes Joyce such a lovable character and such an anchor for buffy it also provides a good explanation for how buffy is so compassionate.

[00:25:00] Yeah yeah she was raised by Joyce and Joyce just a deeply kind and loving person.

[00:25:07] Yeah I love Joyce yeah those are cars dogs by the way listeners.

[00:25:16] I tried to get them to leave but they are all under my feet so I might have to try to kick them out at some point.

[00:25:26] Last week Jody from Australia left a voicemail and in the background you could hear I think she has birds and also cats and there was like a case and they're like yeah.

[00:25:41] I assume that was maybe one of you too but.

[00:25:47] I do love how Joyce you know backs buffy up like we were talking about because I was a little worried about that with how the episode unfolded and the way she was you know behaving with Ted and you know not believing buffy when she had told her what had transpired with Ted and Ted threatening her.

[00:26:12] But that actually does kind of naturally lead into what I think is my biggest point for the episode.

[00:26:22] And I guess I will also go ahead and throw out a trigger warning or discussion about child abuse, grooming behaviors things like that so if that's not something you want to hear just be aware that it's basically what my first point is.

[00:26:41] And I think one thing that buffy does very well and we've talked about this before is kind of deal with real world issues while having this kind of fun supernatural lens to look at them through.

[00:26:59] And in this one you know Randy when you brought up Zander's point about you know so what kind of monster was he when he finds out that buffy has killed Ted or so we think at the time and it just always brings me back the idea that sometimes humans are the monsters and humans can behave in such a monstrous way.

[00:27:22] And this episode really does a fantastic job as a commentary on child abuse and these types of behaviors.

[00:27:32] And even you know thinking about grooming behavior a lot of people will associate that with you know more of you know crimes of the sexual nature or sexual assault and it happens with child abuse specifically physical abuse too.

[00:27:49] And I can't remember if we mentioned this before but I was a prosecutor for almost a decade and I cannot help but have that influence how I see these episodes now.

[00:28:01] And Ted's behavior you know immediately he's concerned about buffy and trying to win over her friends and offering willow to bring you know free software to her and baking cookies and pizza.

[00:28:17] And the fact that he we don't we know he's putting something into his food and literally winning them over with food because you know for him it's actually essentially drugged but yeah they are 100% devouring what he is giving them.

[00:28:38] And Xander so excited about this pizza and he and willow basically discount all of buffy's feelings all the concerns that she brings up they're like no he's a great guy he couldn't possibly be creepy like what are you talking about and essentially making her feel like it's her issue that she's having issues with wanting her mom to be happy.

[00:29:01] And you know when Joyce reveals when it comes out that Joyce has been telling Ted about buffy's bad grades and she thinks it's okay because he's so concerned about buffy and I'm just like Joyce this is a huge red flag.

[00:29:17] This man that you have just started dating is super interested and concerned about your daughter and trying to discipline her like it just it tries me crazy watching that many golf scene.

[00:29:29] He does a lot of of we talk yes where he's like we're really concerned about you buffy and it matters what we teach her when she goes out into the world and it's like you are not her father you're not even her stepfather.

[00:29:44] And it's so fast boy friend yeah and I the first time I watched this I was furious at Joyce yeah I was like what are you doing to your kid this is divorced parent dating 101 right you don't surprise them with someone you don't force them to like the person.

[00:30:04] Yeah like you got to break it to them gently and then of course finding out that he's been drugging her this whole time yeah I forgive Joyce because of the drugs and also because of how she reacts when Ted comes back you know from the dead yes

[00:30:18] And you know she's excited to see him and then her first thought is oh my god buffy you have to let me talk to her she's very upset she didn't mean to hurt you and I'm like oh there's the

[00:30:29] Joyce I love yeah of course she wasn't on his drugs at that point right she's not way in the whole day yeah it's just but the drug story was drugs were an important part of the story for me otherwise I don't know how I could have forgiven

[00:30:43] Joyce for just letting Ted be such a horrible person it'd be too real person without them being under the influence but the kind of you know the essentially

[00:30:55] as a metaphor for that type of manipulation and love bombing and grooming behavior that Ted is you know feeding out to Joyce and buffy's friends and he even tries it a little bit with

[00:31:10] buffy at first and she's not having it because she's also not eating his cookies and eating the pizza so she's stays free of his influence but it just I don't know like the scene where

[00:31:26] buffy confides in Joyce that Ted threatened her and Joyce doesn't believe her it's so yeah is horrific because unfortunately I have seen something like that happen time and time again with children who

[00:31:45] have made out cries or tried to confide in parents about abuse and whether it's a mom or a dad who is dating someone new and they can't really see past this new partner and they don't want to believe what their kids telling them like that

[00:32:00] hit me really hard this rewatch I was like this show is a little too real sometimes like I forgot how like spot on this episode is and the fact that Ted is a salesman is also perfect

[00:32:16] and I love all the subtle references to him is you know I'm not wired that way and how his nickname is the machine at work but it just this episode is excellent at showing how easily people can be manipulated and gaslit into a situation like this where unfortunately someone like their child can end up getting hurt

[00:32:45] and seeing buffy face real world consequences when police show up is very intense like this episode is one of the more disturbing ones to me just because of how real it feels

[00:33:00] yeah and that cop was pretty gentle with her considering yeah that I know that a lot of women and girls when they end up you know at a police station trying to report something they get treated like they are the perpetrator

[00:33:17] and it's a little bit questioned like they're you know definitely lying and trying to trick everyone and it's also important to show that domestic abuse can happen in homes that look nice and pretty on the outside

[00:33:33] to people from any socio economic background absolutely I think that a lot of officials don't believe children when they say like my my mom's mean to me or my dad hit me because they're like but he has a good job and you live in a nice house

[00:33:49] like yeah it's a prevailing myth that that people who are poor or more likely to be violent and people who are middle class are going to be nice and white people are nice and it's it's all turned on its head by this episode which is one of the reasons I wanted to cover it because it's absolutely important

[00:34:09] I think well the steford reference that buffy makes about Joyce is so spot on because and we find out later Ted was when he was human was alive in the 1950s

[00:34:21] and this kind of front of being so put together and formal and polite like his language like beg to differ a little lady like all of that

[00:34:33] yeah he says malarkey yes yes that's a good word but everything can look picture perfect on the outside and in reality there's a lot of darkness underneath and a lot going on

[00:34:49] and I think that is one of the things that makes this skeleton yes in its closet

[00:34:57] yeah that was cool

[00:34:59] what I think is kind of ironic about this episode is that if it weren't for the fact that buffy is a slayer and that they live on a hell mouth

[00:35:11] that this would be a darker episode which is funny yeah the fact that demons and robots and stuff exist somehow lightens

[00:35:21] this episode where you're like if this has just been a regular high school girl dealing with like a monstrous adult man

[00:35:29] like it would just be terrifying but the fact that what should be scary is having a robot man appear in your house and you have to fight him

[00:35:39] that should be scary but in this episode it's the thing that lightens the tone which is yeah it's such a silly twist there

[00:35:49] and this is also really satisfying for I suffered some domestic abuse as a kid and for me it is so satisfying when buffy clocks him with the cast iron skillet

[00:36:05] I'm like oh how many times did I want to do that like it's a fulfilling image and yeah it's the only way the show could go because you know it's buffy and she's the hero but you're right

[00:36:19] if this was a regular girl she'd be stuck in that house Joyce would marry Ted and Ted would either like kill buffy or more likely find some way to send buffy to like boarding school

[00:36:31] and like he threatens to put her in a mental institution for her delusions after he you know invades her privacy and reads her diary and goes through all of her stuff

[00:36:41] and your friend it's so much darker without the supernatural elements

[00:36:47] right yeah that is what like thank god she had slayer strength when he hits her and she's just like oh I was so hoping you'd do that

[00:36:56] yeah I remember like kick his ass buffy like it is funny that neither of them knows who they're hitting and they're both like swinging really hard

[00:37:06] that could either be a teenage girl being hit by a robot man or that could just be a human man being hit by a teenage slayer

[00:37:14] and they're both just like no holds barred we're going to do that

[00:37:17] the quality of John Ritter in that moment when buffy is you know hitting him and he clocks that Joyce is coming in and can now see it

[00:37:27] and the change in how he reacts to being hit where he was yeah yeah vulnerable and like it's you know having much more of an impact

[00:37:37] and we know it is is just brilliant and yeah I that whole scene when he falls down the stairs

[00:37:45] and you know hits his head and breaks his neck whatever happens to him

[00:37:51] I still remember watching it for the first time and being like oh shit what are they going to do like she got a call Giles

[00:37:58] and get everybody over there they've got to figure this out

[00:38:01] and then when the police show up I remember it hitting me even more I was like nope this is too real I don't like this

[00:38:07] what are they going to do yeah like how is this going to play out

[00:38:11] and yeah I think it's at least important for us as viewers to see how affected Buffy is when she thinks she has taken a human life

[00:38:21] even though you know he was threatening to her abusive to her at least certainly you know emotionally and mentally abusive and manipulative to her and her mom

[00:38:35] she still is having this deep struggle with the idea of taking a human life

[00:38:41] and I do like that they let us see that in this episode because I think it is an important thing to understand about Buffy's character

[00:38:50] especially with certain things and characters that come into play later on too

[00:38:57] yeah we could talk about this blood thirsty yeah yeah

[00:39:01] she says to Xander at one point I'm a slayer I had no right to hit him like that

[00:39:09] yeah and it is kind of interesting I've often thought about one of my favorite corny movies Conair

[00:39:18] the Nicholas Conair I love it the Nicholas Cage character is in prison because he got into like a bar fight which lots of people do

[00:39:29] but he was like some kind of trained military like special ops guy so he's basically a deadly weapon in human form

[00:39:38] and when you are trained like that you have to know how to not use it because you can kill other people

[00:39:47] I have a really good friend who is a martial arts master

[00:39:52] and whenever like the question of fighting or violence comes up he always says I'm trained in the ways of peace

[00:40:02] and it's true that like he focuses on de-escalation techniques and disarming techniques

[00:40:11] he actually did have to fight off some muggers once that went after him in his wife

[00:40:15] and he's like I didn't hurt any of them permanently but I definitely made them leave us alone

[00:40:21] effective yeah but you have to be aware of it when you have that kind of power

[00:40:27] and and both he is I mean she's 16 yeah she's still a kid it's a lot of responsibility

[00:40:34] for an age where like hormonally you don't have control of your emotions and feelings to have that much power

[00:40:41] it's understandable that she would lash out

[00:40:44] one we do see I like how they show us she's still a teenager

[00:40:50] and very sometimes subtle sometimes not so subtle ways

[00:40:55] but when they're sitting around the dinner table and it comes out I think this is when she says that

[00:41:00] that Ted is intending to marry Joyce and Buffy makes a comment but like I'd rather kill myself

[00:41:08] and that is just such a 16 year old girl like dramatic thing to say

[00:41:15] and when she's venting to angel about Ted and you can see that angel is like why are we still talking about your mom's boyfriend

[00:41:22] like she's probably lonely like angel understands it

[00:41:25] and I just that was one of those moments to where it became a little extra creepy

[00:41:30] that angel is 200 years old dating a six year old

[00:41:33] that's one of my points actually let's talk about it

[00:41:38] because it was one of mine too yeah it's like the age difference

[00:41:41] it's it's extra it's yeah the fact that she's a kid complaining about her mom to a couple hundred year old guy

[00:41:50] who doesn't in this scene does not seem actually interested in it

[00:41:55] the only part he seems interested in is kissing

[00:41:58] yeah so complaining yeah yeah that's yeah I don't like their age stories

[00:42:07] yeah and then he's like kiss me and she's like oh okay

[00:42:10] and I was like angel you should be listening to her like

[00:42:13] she's the slayer she has like supernatural instincts that everyone should respect

[00:42:21] um Crump Deep Cordelia gets that in this episode

[00:42:26] yeah she's like should there be special rules for her

[00:42:29] yeah we have a fascist society and she's like yes why don't we have one of those

[00:42:34] yeah yeah Cordelia is also Cordelia kind of saves the day a little bit

[00:42:40] when they're in Ted's hideout right and she's like yeah

[00:42:43] and this rug doesn't go with the decor

[00:42:45] yeah let's them find the secret trapdoor

[00:42:48] and I'm like yes design instincts for the win

[00:42:52] yeah it's like each of each of their superpowers works in a way to allow them

[00:42:57] to fix something in hers is just yeah design

[00:43:00] I and taste yeah good job yeah

[00:43:03] yeah and then she always says exactly what she's thinking

[00:43:07] mm-hmm she's for her real yeah

[00:43:09] but yeah there's I think not watching any of the episodes

[00:43:14] come leading up to this and then seeing Buffy and Angel together

[00:43:18] I've always never been a huge Buffy Angel fan

[00:43:22] yeah the whole premise of in all vampire stories of this like couple hundred year old guy

[00:43:29] just being like I'm gonna hang out with a teenage girl

[00:43:33] it's such a weird trope that just keeps happening

[00:43:37] but in this the fact that she's complaining about her mom

[00:43:40] and seems so much like a teenager

[00:43:42] mm-hmm he seems so much like a disinterested adult

[00:43:45] just made it so much creepier

[00:43:47] they're not on the same level dealing with you know some sort of apocalyptic concern

[00:43:54] or villain

[00:43:56] instead it's just Buffy dealing with her real life as a teenager

[00:44:00] and the contrast is so much more apparent

[00:44:04] and when he's instead of saying anything more about you know

[00:44:10] Buffy your mom's probably really lonely

[00:44:12] and maybe it's good for her to date

[00:44:14] I can relate to that I was by myself or anything where he's trying to empathize with her

[00:44:20] instead just immediately going to like wanting to kiss

[00:44:24] as a nuclear fuel man right now Angel

[00:44:26] like that is how I see it

[00:44:28] yeah he's harder to occur a little bit

[00:44:31] oh this is not good

[00:44:36] yeah

[00:44:38] the two of them are very equal when it comes to the fighting

[00:44:44] and the slaying right they're both powerful

[00:44:47] they're both strong he has more knowledge

[00:44:50] she has this she's never been evil thing

[00:44:53] but on when it comes to human things

[00:44:56] Angel was never adept at that

[00:44:59] that's not his area of knowledge

[00:45:02] someday we're gonna get Angel backstory

[00:45:04] and we'll learn what kind of person he was

[00:45:06] before he was a vampire

[00:45:08] he probably he partially thinks like

[00:45:13] oh you're just upset that your mom is dating someone

[00:45:16] that's a typical teenage problem too

[00:45:18] even when the person is not a monster

[00:45:20] you just don't want your parent dating someone new

[00:45:23] but he also like he doesn't get really Buffy's relationship with Joyce

[00:45:30] or like what it would be like to be 16

[00:45:34] so long ago for him

[00:45:36] so it's just really selfish

[00:45:38] and he is kind of emotionally stuck

[00:45:40] like he's not quite the same you know

[00:45:44] contrasting him with spike who we have seen

[00:45:49] seems to be you know very in tune with his emotions

[00:45:53] however creepy they may be

[00:45:55] he's very good at articulating them

[00:45:58] recognizing them

[00:45:59] and poor angel just seems awkward

[00:46:03] anytime something like that comes up

[00:46:06] and it's true like Buffy makes it clear

[00:46:09] that if she wants her mom to be dating anyone

[00:46:12] it would be her dad which is also a very typical

[00:46:15] you know teenager point of view on something like that

[00:46:19] and I just I don't know

[00:46:22] I just wanted him to give her like a little bit of something

[00:46:26] showing that he understood or sympathized as opposed to just going straight into

[00:46:31] I feel like spike would have clocked Ted right away

[00:46:36] like if spike had been at the house and it was met Ted

[00:46:40] he would have been like you're special

[00:46:42] yeah like I don't like that guy

[00:46:44] yeah

[00:46:46] you seem a little mechanical

[00:46:48] what's your deal?

[00:46:49] like spike is very observant

[00:46:51] and interested in humans right

[00:46:54] he cares about human emotion

[00:46:58] I feel like one of the differences between the two of them angel and spike

[00:47:02] is you can imagine what spike does for the rest of the day

[00:47:05] when he's not dealing with Buffy

[00:47:07] but I just imagine angels just like sitting in a chair all day

[00:47:12] just like yeah staring at a wall

[00:47:15] yeah

[00:47:17] like staring at it until Buffy shows up

[00:47:20] that's true

[00:47:23] yeah he is

[00:47:25] oh my god he's keying

[00:47:27] he's keying

[00:47:29] his job is vampire

[00:47:31] oh my gosh

[00:47:34] yeah

[00:47:36] oh my gosh

[00:47:38] he's a lot of Buffy sees him

[00:47:41] doing anything like he's not reading

[00:47:44] he's not drawing

[00:47:46] he's spiked going to the movie

[00:47:48] having a hobby

[00:47:50] when he's not killing people

[00:47:52] yeah

[00:47:54] we know that he likes TV

[00:47:57] and stuff

[00:47:58] he don't love to Barbie

[00:47:59] spike would have really appreciated Barbie

[00:48:02] he would have really liked that movie

[00:48:04] it's true

[00:48:05] and you know that he like listens to music

[00:48:08] and he probably goes to concerts

[00:48:11] he's a more well-rounded person

[00:48:15] there's this great moment in one of the episodes we skipped

[00:48:18] in What's My Line

[00:48:19] I think part one

[00:48:20] when angels like

[00:48:22] oh career week

[00:48:24] and Buffy's like how did he know that

[00:48:26] and he goes

[00:48:27] I work

[00:48:28] yeah

[00:48:29] that's his job

[00:48:30] he's just lurk

[00:48:32] in the shadows

[00:48:34] yeah

[00:48:36] it's so creepy

[00:48:38] you know last week

[00:48:39] we were talking about frat guys trolling for teenage girls

[00:48:42] but like

[00:48:43] at least you know what the frat guys

[00:48:45] are closer in age

[00:48:47] yeah

[00:48:51] that's true

[00:48:53] that is true

[00:48:54] because I had such a visceral reaction

[00:48:56] to those guys

[00:48:58] like sitting there

[00:48:59] scoping out all of these children

[00:49:02] like 16 year old children

[00:49:04] but really

[00:49:05] like angels not better

[00:49:07] no

[00:49:08] at all

[00:49:09] yeah

[00:49:11] when he asks her like

[00:49:13] oh who do you think

[00:49:14] should be dating your mom

[00:49:16] I kind of wanted him to be like

[00:49:18] maybe I should actually

[00:49:20] she's maybe more age appropriate than like

[00:49:22] are acting more as a father

[00:49:25] with you right now anyway

[00:49:27] so

[00:49:28] my gosh

[00:49:30] I like Giles more

[00:49:32] as a father figure

[00:49:33] for Buffy

[00:49:34] at least that makes

[00:49:35] somewhat more sense

[00:49:36] yeah

[00:49:38] angels the creepy uncle

[00:49:40] oh gross

[00:49:41] angel

[00:49:42] even his vampire

[00:49:43] like his pre-vampire self

[00:49:45] I think was too old for Buffy

[00:49:47] right

[00:49:48] he looks like he was changed

[00:49:50] when he was maybe in his 20s

[00:49:52] yeah

[00:49:53] I think that's true

[00:49:54] yeah

[00:49:55] I do wonder

[00:49:56] does the

[00:49:57] vampire change

[00:49:59] permanently hold you

[00:50:01] in that like mindset

[00:50:02] or are you still

[00:50:04] experiencing

[00:50:05] things in aging

[00:50:06] the same way

[00:50:07] or is there some magical

[00:50:08] like he's

[00:50:09] forever

[00:50:10] I wondered that a lot about

[00:50:11] the twilight

[00:50:12] books

[00:50:13] yeah

[00:50:14] yeah

[00:50:15] it's like his Edward

[00:50:16] just permanently 17

[00:50:18] or is he 100

[00:50:19] and 17

[00:50:20] he seemed like an only note

[00:50:22] well

[00:50:23] I feel

[00:50:24] anyway

[00:50:25] no we're

[00:50:26] shitting all over angel

[00:50:27] and Buffy

[00:50:28] but I'm curious

[00:50:29] to any

[00:50:30] like you know

[00:50:31] people who are listeners

[00:50:32] who are more

[00:50:34] into angel and Buffy

[00:50:36] or don't see their relationship

[00:50:38] as problematic

[00:50:39] please write in

[00:50:40] because I'm very curious

[00:50:41] for that perspective

[00:50:43] because I feel like

[00:50:44] I am so set

[00:50:45] in how I see them at this point

[00:50:47] that

[00:50:48] I can't think of anything else

[00:50:50] so if you have

[00:50:51] different opinions

[00:50:52] we definitely want to hear them

[00:50:54] I'm curious

[00:50:56] I like

[00:50:58] the character angel

[00:51:00] I just don't like them

[00:51:02] I like that he left

[00:51:04] if you were more of just a protector

[00:51:06] yes

[00:51:07] yes

[00:51:08] I like him in his own show

[00:51:09] a lot

[00:51:10] yes

[00:51:11] but

[00:51:13] and I can completely understand

[00:51:15] why Buffy

[00:51:16] faults for him too

[00:51:17] I mean

[00:51:18] he's one of the few people

[00:51:20] that know her deal

[00:51:22] and she feels very lonely

[00:51:24] about being the slayer

[00:51:25] and having these powers

[00:51:27] and these responsibilities

[00:51:28] and angel

[00:51:30] is the only person strong enough

[00:51:32] to save her sometimes

[00:51:34] when she's in danger

[00:51:36] and he is very good looking

[00:51:38] and he pays a ton of attention

[00:51:40] to her which is

[00:51:42] it's creepy when you think about it

[00:51:44] as an older man

[00:51:46] grooming a young kid

[00:51:48] but when you're a young kid

[00:51:50] and an adult pays a lot of attention to you

[00:51:52] especially when your father

[00:51:54] is far away

[00:51:56] and seems to never call or anything

[00:51:57] it's it's it's exhilarating

[00:51:59] it's addictive

[00:52:00] oh that makes it creepy

[00:52:02] yeah

[00:52:03] creeps

[00:52:04] I guess

[00:52:06] the one silver lining

[00:52:08] is that he's not like

[00:52:10] trying to hit on all

[00:52:12] of the high school girls

[00:52:14] just because he has

[00:52:15] one supernatural

[00:52:17] yeah

[00:52:19] and in the supernatural aspect

[00:52:21] of it where she is

[00:52:23] you know the chosen one

[00:52:24] and she has had to

[00:52:26] grow up significantly

[00:52:28] and she has this

[00:52:30] huge responsibility

[00:52:32] essentially for

[00:52:34] all of humanity

[00:52:35] resting on her shoulders

[00:52:37] that's where I can see their

[00:52:39] connection coming in

[00:52:41] and she does seem more mature

[00:52:43] and wise

[00:52:44] when she is dealing

[00:52:45] with those situations

[00:52:47] but yeah

[00:52:48] in this episode

[00:52:49] where she is dealing

[00:52:50] with typical teenage problems

[00:52:51] it is just

[00:52:53] much more apparent

[00:52:55] that he's a little creepy

[00:52:57] there's a

[00:53:00] little age difference

[00:53:02] and I do like you know

[00:53:03] with Giles

[00:53:04] as a father figure

[00:53:05] I guess

[00:53:06] Penny did you have

[00:53:07] another point

[00:53:08] um

[00:53:10] I don't know

[00:53:11] or I was like

[00:53:12] I was gonna jump in

[00:53:13] like one of the things

[00:53:14] in this episode

[00:53:15] that stood out to me

[00:53:16] was how Giles

[00:53:18] feels

[00:53:19] with you know

[00:53:20] kind of fatherly

[00:53:21] towards Buffy

[00:53:22] and he does it

[00:53:23] in a way that I don't

[00:53:24] perceive as creepy

[00:53:25] I know that there's been

[00:53:27] you know

[00:53:28] mixed opinions of how Giles

[00:53:29] behaves towards Buffy

[00:53:30] sometimes

[00:53:31] but I have never seen him

[00:53:32] as creepy

[00:53:33] towards her

[00:53:34] no

[00:53:35] and when he

[00:53:36] you know

[00:53:37] when he's watching her

[00:53:38] as they're patrolling

[00:53:39] and she is

[00:53:40] beating

[00:53:41] out of that one vampire

[00:53:43] and he's just like

[00:53:45] um

[00:53:46] you know

[00:53:47] everything OK

[00:53:48] everything going

[00:53:49] you don't usually beat them

[00:53:50] to a pulp

[00:53:51] he kind of vents a little

[00:53:52] bit but doesn't

[00:53:53] go all

[00:53:54] into what is actually

[00:53:55] bothering her

[00:53:56] I like that Giles

[00:53:58] is so in tune with her

[00:54:00] and concerned

[00:54:01] and realizes

[00:54:02] that something is going on

[00:54:04] and he just

[00:54:06] kinda like Giles

[00:54:08] is the father figure

[00:54:09] that Buffy

[00:54:11] needs

[00:54:12] and him

[00:54:13] and that contrast

[00:54:14] with Ted

[00:54:15] stands out to me

[00:54:16] in particular

[00:54:17] in this episode

[00:54:18] that he's

[00:54:20] a healthier

[00:54:22] you know

[00:54:23] I don't know

[00:54:25] match is not what I want to say

[00:54:27] but healthier

[00:54:28] role model, healthier figure

[00:54:30] for her to do

[00:54:31] yeah

[00:54:32] I really

[00:54:34] enjoy the wrong word

[00:54:36] I really appreciate

[00:54:37] the way that he responds

[00:54:39] after Buffy thinks

[00:54:40] she's killed Ted

[00:54:41] and she is just

[00:54:43] eating herself

[00:54:44] up about it

[00:54:45] right

[00:54:46] she feels so much guilt

[00:54:47] and

[00:54:48] Giles is like

[00:54:49] you know

[00:54:50] she's punishing herself

[00:54:51] more than the system

[00:54:52] could punish her

[00:54:53] and then he's like

[00:54:54] I have to patrol

[00:54:55] tonight

[00:54:56] there's no way Buffy

[00:54:57] can patrol

[00:54:58] she's

[00:54:59] you know

[00:55:00] upset

[00:55:01] he

[00:55:03] has so much

[00:55:05] sympathy

[00:55:06] for her

[00:55:07] and respect

[00:55:08] for her too

[00:55:09] like he's

[00:55:10] like she's very upset

[00:55:11] I'm gonna let her be

[00:55:12] very upset

[00:55:13] and I'll take care

[00:55:14] of other stuff

[00:55:15] so she can like deal

[00:55:16] with what's going on

[00:55:17] with her

[00:55:18] and she's

[00:55:19] actually

[00:55:20] considering her feelings

[00:55:21] yeah

[00:55:22] he's like

[00:55:23] how can I help the most

[00:55:24] direct way

[00:55:25] I can take

[00:55:26] slaying off her plate

[00:55:27] and that is what I can do

[00:55:29] of course it leads to

[00:55:30] you know

[00:55:31] the cute reconciliation

[00:55:32] with Jenny Callender

[00:55:34] and her shooting him

[00:55:35] through his many layers

[00:55:36] of tweet

[00:55:37] as I love

[00:55:38] yeah

[00:55:39] so great

[00:55:43] coming into an episode

[00:55:45] without having watched

[00:55:47] the show

[00:55:48] I was actually

[00:55:49] surprised

[00:55:50] how

[00:55:51] Giles didn't have all

[00:55:53] of the answers

[00:55:54] in this episode

[00:55:56] when he's talking to Jenny

[00:55:58] and I think

[00:55:59] later on something

[00:56:00] with Buffy

[00:56:01] I don't quite remember

[00:56:02] what it was

[00:56:03] but I remember him

[00:56:04] as being the person

[00:56:05] who has all the answers

[00:56:06] you just went

[00:56:07] to Giles

[00:56:08] and he told you what to do

[00:56:09] but it was surprising

[00:56:10] to see in this episode

[00:56:11] that he

[00:56:12] is struggling a little

[00:56:14] bit

[00:56:15] to have the answers

[00:56:16] and he's still trying

[00:56:17] really hard

[00:56:18] but he's not always perfect

[00:56:19] which is a very

[00:56:20] interesting character

[00:56:21] trait to see

[00:56:22] Giles really gets

[00:56:25] that he's human

[00:56:27] gets fleshed out

[00:56:28] as a character in season 2

[00:56:30] you know

[00:56:31] between Ethan Rain

[00:56:32] and the mark of Igon

[00:56:33] drama

[00:56:34] and his relationship

[00:56:35] with Jenny

[00:56:37] we get to see

[00:56:38] that he is a full person

[00:56:40] in the first season

[00:56:42] he's very much

[00:56:43] like the library

[00:56:44] in the watcher

[00:56:45] and this season

[00:56:47] it's just so much

[00:56:48] better and deeper

[00:56:49] he's

[00:56:50] so much more interesting

[00:56:51] and he does

[00:56:52] he kind of stumbles

[00:56:53] in this episode

[00:56:54] when he's talking

[00:56:56] to Jenny

[00:56:57] and you know

[00:56:58] going

[00:56:59] and checking up on her

[00:57:00] again

[00:57:01] and she's just like

[00:57:03] you know

[00:57:04] she's like

[00:57:05] I know you're concerned

[00:57:06] but having you

[00:57:07] constantly poking

[00:57:08] around

[00:57:09] and making

[00:57:10] little puppy dog

[00:57:11] guys at me

[00:57:12] wondering if I'm okay

[00:57:13] you make me feel bad

[00:57:14] that I don't feel better

[00:57:15] and

[00:57:16] he just like

[00:57:17] he still doesn't seem to

[00:57:19] flock it

[00:57:20] and understand it

[00:57:21] and I love that exchange

[00:57:24] because

[00:57:25] especially in a TV show

[00:57:27] because sometimes

[00:57:29] you know

[00:57:30] it's overwhelming

[00:57:32] when people are concerned

[00:57:34] about you after

[00:57:35] something happened

[00:57:36] that's traumatic

[00:57:37] and it's nice

[00:57:38] that they're concerned

[00:57:39] but that constant checking

[00:57:41] in and hovering

[00:57:42] and putting this expectation

[00:57:44] on you

[00:57:45] because you

[00:57:46] ever want to say

[00:57:47] oh I'm doing horribly

[00:57:48] I still having

[00:57:49] you know

[00:57:50] some post-traumatic

[00:57:51] stress disorder

[00:57:52] symptoms from this horrible

[00:57:53] happening to me

[00:57:54] and so it's nice

[00:57:55] that they kind of

[00:57:56] recognize that

[00:57:57] and call that out

[00:57:58] and show

[00:57:59] that

[00:58:00] Giles

[00:58:01] is not perfect

[00:58:02] and it makes his

[00:58:04] relationship

[00:58:05] with Jenny

[00:58:06] feel

[00:58:07] more authentic

[00:58:08] and more authentic

[00:58:09] and

[00:58:12] lived in to me.

[00:58:14] Did you guys think

[00:58:16] when he says at the end

[00:58:17] oh I'm sorry

[00:58:18] for making dog eyes

[00:58:19] at you

[00:58:20] was that him just not

[00:58:21] saying the right thing

[00:58:22] or did he not

[00:58:23] know what puppy eyes were?

[00:58:24] Yeah, I don't know

[00:58:25] so awkward.

[00:58:26] I was just like

[00:58:27] just like

[00:58:29] you never had a puppy?

[00:58:31] Like come on, man.

[00:58:32] Yeah.

[00:58:33] Or he was just so

[00:58:34] nervous

[00:58:35] or

[00:58:36] I was like

[00:58:37] so nervous

[00:58:38] or

[00:58:39] I was like

[00:58:40] yeah, he stumbled

[00:58:41] and he was like

[00:58:42] dog eyes.

[00:58:43] It's like

[00:58:44] yeah.

[00:58:45] Yeah, come on.

[00:58:46] One of the big

[00:58:47] themes of

[00:58:48] the whole season

[00:58:49] is that dating

[00:58:50] and relationships

[00:58:52] are dangerous.

[00:58:53] You can get

[00:58:54] really, really hurt, right?

[00:58:56] So Jenny dating

[00:58:57] Giles, like she's

[00:58:58] constantly being

[00:58:59] endangered

[00:59:00] and getting hurt

[00:59:01] because

[00:59:02] of her relationship

[00:59:03] with Giles.

[00:59:04] You know, Ted

[00:59:06] Joyce,

[00:59:07] Buffy

[00:59:08] and Angel

[00:59:09] last week

[00:59:10] with the

[00:59:11] the Frat Guys.

[00:59:13] It's

[00:59:14] it's the theme

[00:59:15] of the whole episode

[00:59:16] and of the whole season

[00:59:17] and it's

[00:59:18] a really important thing

[00:59:19] to remember

[00:59:21] you know

[00:59:22] if you're in an

[00:59:23] established relationship

[00:59:24] like I know

[00:59:25] Randy you've been

[00:59:26] married for a while

[00:59:27] it's probably hard

[00:59:28] to remember the feeling

[00:59:29] when you're first

[00:59:30] dating someone

[00:59:31] and you don't know

[00:59:33] like is this person cool?

[00:59:35] Or are they a serial killer?

[00:59:36] I have no idea

[00:59:37] it's hard to tell.

[00:59:38] And she could still

[00:59:39] be playing the long game

[00:59:40] here, I don't know.

[00:59:41] Yeah.

[00:59:42] It's true you're very

[00:59:43] vulnerable.

[00:59:44] There is a

[00:59:45] room I'm not

[00:59:46] allowed to go in

[00:59:47] and I'm house.

[00:59:48] I don't know what happens

[00:59:49] in May.

[00:59:50] Is that a red flag?

[00:59:51] No, it's totally

[00:59:52] okay.

[00:59:53] I pulled up some red flags

[00:59:54] for people to look

[00:59:55] for if

[00:59:56] I was going to

[00:59:58] get married

[00:59:59] and then I was

[01:00:00] going to be

[01:00:01] married.

[01:00:02] Is that a red flag?

[01:00:03] No, it's totally

[01:00:04] okay.

[01:00:05] I'm not going to say

[01:00:06] that you're

[01:00:07] going to be out of the

[01:00:09] room for if

[01:00:10] you're in a

[01:00:11] relationship and these

[01:00:12] things happen

[01:00:13] or you see this happening

[01:00:14] to a friend of yours

[01:00:15] or someone you know

[01:00:16] a loved one,

[01:00:17] reach out to

[01:00:18] the domestic abuse

[01:00:19] hotline.

[01:00:20] I'm going to post

[01:00:21] that in the show notes

[01:00:22] and talk to a

[01:00:23] professional about it

[01:00:24] even if it's not

[01:00:25] happening to you,

[01:00:27] you might be able

[01:00:28] to help your friend get

[01:00:29] out of a situation

[01:00:30] that's bad

[01:00:31] or provide them

[01:00:32] a safe place

[01:00:33] of what your

[01:00:35] people ever

[01:00:37] experience

[01:01:02] in their lives,

[01:01:02] they could possibly do.

[01:01:03] Like women couldn't leave men.

[01:01:05] They didn't have any money to like pay rent.

[01:01:08] Social control is another big one,

[01:01:10] like stopping you from stopping the person

[01:01:12] from seeing their friends or family

[01:01:15] or punishing them for seeing their friends or family, right?

[01:01:18] Like picking a fight or complaining

[01:01:22] or being a big jerk about it whenever you see

[01:01:24] your friends or family.

[01:01:27] Criticizing, shaming, mocking, anything that the person does

[01:01:31] that makes the target feel confused and unsure

[01:01:38] of themselves and their own perceptions, right?

[01:01:41] It's gaslighting.

[01:01:43] It's making you doubt yourself

[01:01:45] and isolating you from your friends.

[01:01:46] So Ted is great at it because he makes

[01:01:50] buffy's friends all are so like giddy and happy with him

[01:01:55] with the drugs and the cookies and the free software

[01:01:57] and Joyce is like, oh he's such a nice guy

[01:02:01] and buffy is very, very alone

[01:02:05] and you could see it on her face.

[01:02:06] Like even when she's with her friends

[01:02:08] she doesn't feel like she's with them

[01:02:10] because they are not listening to her

[01:02:13] or taking her side

[01:02:14] and it's a classic red flag of domestic abuse.

[01:02:19] Buffy's lucky because it happened quickly

[01:02:23] and obviously enough that she was able to like respond

[01:02:26] and get Ted out of their lives

[01:02:28] but for most people you end up years with a person like that

[01:02:33] because it's insidious and society pushes you

[01:02:38] to stay with a person too.

[01:02:39] They're like, oh you can make it work

[01:02:41] and stay together for the kids or he's such a good provider

[01:02:46] like there's a lot of things that society will do

[01:02:49] to try to keep people in bad relationships.

[01:02:53] Well and I'll say switching into going from

[01:02:58] criminal law into family law,

[01:03:01] the number of people that will have come in,

[01:03:05] number of women that will have come in

[01:03:07] that are trying to get out of some sort of an abusive

[01:03:10] relationship but they don't control the finances

[01:03:14] and they're having a hard time being able to even afford

[01:03:19] coming in for a consultation and trying to file for divorce.

[01:03:23] I think that's one of the reasons why this show

[01:03:25] is still so important because it covers

[01:03:27] all of these really hard topics in an accessible way

[01:03:31] and you know, this is slightly spoiler

[01:03:34] we'll talk about this a little bit more later

[01:03:36] but this is not the only time that Buffy covers

[01:03:39] domestic abuse.

[01:03:41] It comes up again and again

[01:03:43] and I think it is important to keep in mind

[01:03:47] all of these red flags especially I love that this was in 1997

[01:03:51] this was something that was not as touched on and talked about

[01:03:56] I think after the MeToo movement in particular

[01:03:59] we've had a lot more development

[01:04:02] in terms of recognizing domestic abuse.

[01:04:05] Of course, of control itself is now a crime in the UK

[01:04:10] we're not quite there yet here in the United States

[01:04:13] but it's you know, there's progress being made

[01:04:16] and I just, I don't know it makes me want to nerd out

[01:04:19] over Buffy even more for having these types of themes

[01:04:25] and generating this kind of discussion

[01:04:27] even oh my gosh almost 30 years later

[01:04:32] when I was like I can't do it.

[01:04:35] I was looking for domestic abuse resources online

[01:04:41] and one of the pages I clicked into had a pop up warning

[01:04:46] and it was like, it was instructions how to clean your search history

[01:04:52] after you looked at the page about domestic abuse

[01:04:55] so that no one would know that you had looked at it

[01:04:57] and it made me cry.

[01:04:59] It was so sad to think about someone being like

[01:05:04] I need help, I don't know where to go

[01:05:05] and then being like I can't look online

[01:05:07] because he checks my search history.

[01:05:12] It's devastating.

[01:05:15] When we see Ted when he quote unquote comes back from the dead

[01:05:19] and is with Joyce, he is immediately aggressive

[01:05:23] with her at that point in time

[01:05:25] like it escalates so quickly

[01:05:29] and it's like that the idea of how do you boil a frog

[01:05:35] or cook a frog if you put a frog

[01:05:38] and boiling water they're immediately gonna jump out

[01:05:41] and it's not gonna work.

[01:05:42] But if you slowly turn up the heat

[01:05:45] then the frog isn't gonna realize it

[01:05:47] and that's kind of the perfect metaphor

[01:05:51] for people getting into abusive relationships.

[01:05:55] Nobody is gonna stick around

[01:05:57] if someone acts like that immediately

[01:06:00] and I think yeah, if somebody's physically

[01:06:02] or emotionally abusive in the first date

[01:06:05] you tend to move away from that

[01:06:07] but it's like the slowly chipping away

[01:06:10] at your boundaries and what you feel secure with

[01:06:14] and then eventually you realize they have full control

[01:06:17] over you and that's when it's really hard to get out.

[01:06:20] Because Joyce everybody thought Ted was great

[01:06:23] and that's the other thing that parallels real life

[01:06:26] is Joyce and Buffy now are both seeing Ted in this light

[01:06:31] and clearly everyone at work thinks he's

[01:06:35] you know, pretty much a great guy

[01:06:37] he was charming to Buffy's friends

[01:06:40] and that's one of the big hurdles you see in real life

[01:06:44] is they put on a front to society

[01:06:48] and present themselves one way

[01:06:50] and it can be really hard to overcome that

[01:06:53] when you're trying to report or explain what's happening.

[01:06:58] And thankfully this was a case where he was a robot

[01:07:02] and they could take care of it.

[01:07:04] No.

[01:07:05] The solution was a lot easier just destroy him.

[01:07:10] I love that Joyce is like,

[01:07:12] I'm just so afraid he'll come back

[01:07:14] and I'm like yeah, you should be

[01:07:16] except that he's a robot and he's been destroyed

[01:07:19] but in real life, like stalkers come back again

[01:07:24] and again and again

[01:07:25] and there are not a lot of legal ways to prevent it.

[01:07:31] Stalkers have, there's very little ways to restrict a stalker.

[01:07:36] They have to actually hurt you before the police will do anything

[01:07:40] and it has to be physical hurt.

[01:07:42] So most what most people do is just run

[01:07:46] and change their name, move to a different place,

[01:07:50] uproot their entire lives, right?

[01:07:52] Leave but it's like witness protection

[01:07:54] you like leave behind all the people you know.

[01:07:57] It's the ultimate form of punishment from this person is like

[01:08:01] you don't even get to have your life anyway.

[01:08:03] I will say, you know, Texas is behind not a lot of things

[01:08:09] but we do have a fairly progressive stalking statute

[01:08:16] where if it's two instances or more of behavior

[01:08:20] that would cause a reasonable person to feel annoyed,

[01:08:24] harassed, alarmed, threatened technically

[01:08:28] that person could be charged with a third degree felony level stalking

[01:08:33] which is a fantastic tool to have in prosecuting these types of cases

[01:08:39] but that is not the case in every state or in every country

[01:08:44] and it's terrifying to think that if you are dealing with someone

[01:08:49] who's behaving that way that the police couldn't intervene

[01:08:52] before something happens to you, it's just it's infuriating.

[01:08:57] So that's why it's still important to have.

[01:09:00] Also the incidences of domestic abuse

[01:09:04] that are perpetrated by members of the police

[01:09:07] are very high there's a huge percentage

[01:09:10] and historically when the person being abused has tried

[01:09:15] to get some kind of relief,

[01:09:18] the other police officers close ranks around that person

[01:09:22] and the abused person is completely without any kind of recourse

[01:09:27] and those are the people that have to run.

[01:09:30] Power, oh yeah.

[01:09:31] Yep, the power dynamic is so off there.

[01:09:35] You kind of hope you could be a slayer in that situation

[01:09:39] have the strength to just fight back and yeah.

[01:09:43] Yeah, if anybody listening is in a situation like that

[01:09:47] and you feel like you can't get out,

[01:09:51] reach out for help.

[01:09:52] There are resources in every community

[01:09:57] and usually if you go to somebody that's a woman

[01:10:02] they're more likely to understand and help you

[01:10:05] and focus on getting yourself into a secure environment

[01:10:10] as your number one thing.

[01:10:12] Like rent an apartment, get a motel room, do it,

[01:10:15] get a friend to do it under their name

[01:10:17] so that the person can't easily find you.

[01:10:21] Removing yourself physically from the environment

[01:10:24] is the first step and I urge people to try it.

[01:10:28] And there are-

[01:10:29] Which is a step for that as financial too

[01:10:31] so if you have a friend you can trust

[01:10:33] who you can start funneling money to

[01:10:35] that's always a starting step.

[01:10:37] And I will say there are in a lot of communities

[01:10:41] there are resources and places where you can go

[01:10:45] that offer free housing or will assist you in

[01:10:51] finding somewhere to live,

[01:10:53] will assist you in paying legal fees to get in a divorce.

[01:10:57] There are legal aid clinics.

[01:11:00] There are many resources if money is a problem

[01:11:04] that are out there for you to find.

[01:11:07] So one of the most dangerous,

[01:11:10] this is getting really heavy,

[01:11:11] but one of the most dangerous times in a domestic

[01:11:17] abuse situation is when you try to extricate yourself from it.

[01:11:21] When you try to leave is typically

[01:11:23] when you are at the highest risk for physical violence.

[01:11:28] So that is why it's good to go into it with a plan

[01:11:31] go into it seeking resources and do what you can

[01:11:35] to make sure you are as safe as possible.

[01:11:39] But there are resources out there.

[01:11:43] There are people out there who listen and will care.

[01:11:46] So I second that definitely reach out.

[01:11:51] If I ever was in a position to help someone get out

[01:11:54] of a situation like that,

[01:11:56] I would happily give them thousands of dollars

[01:11:59] and be like here move to another city.

[01:12:03] Like just get out.

[01:12:04] It gets so complicated when there's kids involved, right?

[01:12:07] Like true.

[01:12:09] It's hard.

[01:12:10] It's a really difficult situation.

[01:12:11] Our society has not done enough remotely enough to solve it.

[01:12:16] But it is getting better because more and more people

[01:12:19] are aware of it.

[01:12:20] And there are resources are being developed.

[01:12:23] I think women who have gotten out

[01:12:25] of abusive relationships,

[01:12:27] a lot of them do the work of helping more people get out

[01:12:31] because they understand exactly what you're going through.

[01:12:33] The same is true of like abusive institutions.

[01:12:36] Like sometimes it's a religion you need to escape from.

[01:12:39] Yeah, that's why I was so satisfying to see Ted finally

[01:12:44] get what was coming to him.

[01:12:46] That cast iron skillet that he was so proud of

[01:12:50] with a great weapon and makeup.

[01:12:51] A lot of catharsis through that.

[01:12:53] Whatever they made in his teeth,

[01:12:56] like look up and exposing the mechanics.

[01:12:59] That was brilliant.

[01:13:01] Yeah, the prosthetic was top notch there.

[01:13:04] Yeah, way better than you would expect from 1997, right?

[01:13:08] Yeah, for sure.

[01:13:09] Just satisfying.

[01:13:11] Just like...

[01:13:12] I will say the robot.

[01:13:15] I feel like one of the things that I always find entertaining

[01:13:18] going back to TV shows of this age

[01:13:20] is just like the early representation of technology

[01:13:23] and just like the way it's talked about on TV.

[01:13:26] It sometimes feels like they know a couple of the words.

[01:13:30] And they'll just throw them in there.

[01:13:32] But it doesn't always make any sense.

[01:13:34] But one of the things I did think was funny

[01:13:38] is just the idea that Ted could get stabbed

[01:13:40] in the arm with a knife or I forget what she hit.

[01:13:44] And that was going to mess up his ability

[01:13:47] to speak correctly.

[01:13:48] Yeah, because the idea of this huge complicated robot

[01:13:51] and that's in the arm for some reason.

[01:13:53] I think that seems like bad design.

[01:13:56] Yeah, for sure.

[01:13:57] Yeah, because it really did mess him up.

[01:14:00] Yeah.

[01:14:01] John, that way...

[01:14:02] I do like...

[01:14:04] I like his malfunctions when he'll pause for a moment

[01:14:07] and be like, do you want gravy with that?

[01:14:10] Now it's curious if he was ad-libbing those at all.

[01:14:13] I couldn't find any confirmation, but it seemed like...

[01:14:15] I would love to know that.

[01:14:16] Yeah, that seems like the John Ritter thing to do.

[01:14:18] Yeah.

[01:14:19] Yeah, yeah.

[01:14:20] He did an excellent job.

[01:14:22] It was amazing how he was able to make his eyes go

[01:14:27] from John Ritter, cute, lovable face to solace.

[01:14:34] Yeah.

[01:14:35] Dead eye terrifying.

[01:14:38] Yep.

[01:14:39] Yeah.

[01:14:40] It's amazing.

[01:14:41] A solid acting job.

[01:14:42] Yeah.

[01:14:43] That's a thing like...

[01:14:44] A lot of other people in that role, it would not have come off

[01:14:49] as impactful or as...

[01:14:52] It could have been way cheesier than how he portrayed it.

[01:14:57] Yeah, especially his like corny dialogue, right?

[01:15:01] At the way he talks in that sort of fifties way.

[01:15:04] A lot of actors would have leaned into it too much and he just delivered it with this

[01:15:11] sort of deadpan, like its normal style.

[01:15:15] And so it just felt like part of who he is.

[01:15:18] The character.

[01:15:19] He's almost picture John Ritter talking that way to begin with.

[01:15:23] Yeah.

[01:15:24] So it feels like it kind of sticks.

[01:15:25] I really want to know that the story behind how he ended up on this show because he was

[01:15:31] a huge star at the time.

[01:15:34] And this was a little show on the WB.

[01:15:36] I always wonder if like he was friends with someone on the production and they were like,

[01:15:40] you'd be so good at this or if he watched Buffy and like he reached out and was like,

[01:15:46] I want to be on this show.

[01:15:47] It's not going to be amazing.

[01:15:48] Well, I think it is interesting too.

[01:15:50] We've talked about how humans are the monsters and humans do monstrous things and luckily

[01:15:56] in this one, Ted's a robot but we also find out and it's almost like a throw away at

[01:16:02] the end of the episode when they offer up the explanation for Ted and it turns out that

[01:16:07] in the fifties he was dying, his wife left him and so he built a robot of himself.

[01:16:14] Kidnapped his ex wife.

[01:16:17] He kept her prisoner until she did and then did that with what three or four other women.

[01:16:24] So it's still this horrific human story even without the supernatural.

[01:16:32] But I did like this episode is so damn dark.

[01:16:36] So you guys, let's try to lighten up the conversation a little bit.

[01:16:40] We will put some resources in the show notes for people who want to know more about domestic

[01:16:44] abuse and violence.

[01:16:47] But let's talk about some of the later aspects of the episode.

[01:16:52] My personal favorite is just Zander's whole affect when he's looking at Ted's apartment

[01:17:00] and then he goes up to the closet and he's like, what you got in the closet, Ted?

[01:17:03] And then he opens it and then he's like, we have everything we need.

[01:17:06] Let's get out of here.

[01:17:07] Yeah, never mind.

[01:17:08] Yeah.

[01:17:09] And everyone's like, what was it?

[01:17:10] He's like his first four wives.

[01:17:13] It's just very, it's like the part of Zander I love.

[01:17:17] We've talked about how Zander often says and does things that are problematic.

[01:17:20] But in this episode he's pretty funny.

[01:17:24] And that moment I've always really enjoyed just the efficiency of it.

[01:17:28] How he's like, yep, we got it.

[01:17:29] We're out.

[01:17:30] That is funny.

[01:17:32] I like that they also remember to turn off the light before they will.

[01:17:36] It's so considerate.

[01:17:37] It's nice.

[01:17:38] Yeah.

[01:17:39] You got to conserve energy.

[01:17:41] Well, there's John Ritter also obviously all of him is fantastic.

[01:17:46] But it does make me happy that Ted is a prolific cook just like Jack was in three's company.

[01:17:53] It's a nice little, you know, cool.

[01:17:56] A couple of about that.

[01:17:58] And I do really enjoy that Buffy and Joyce had bonded after this horrific event.

[01:18:07] When they're talking about, you know, the end where they're trying to figure out what movie

[01:18:11] to watch is like, you know, nothing with men.

[01:18:13] No romantic comedies and Buffy says, I guess we're Thelma and Louisiana again.

[01:18:17] So that's a good choice after all of this.

[01:18:20] Like Thelma and Louise is a perp real.

[01:18:23] Yeah.

[01:18:24] The two of them against the world.

[01:18:26] I do like it when the two of them are bonding because yeah, they do a really good job

[01:18:31] of even though these two actors are not in any way related, they look a little bit

[01:18:37] like each other and they sometimes they have gestures.

[01:18:43] And I assume that's intentional and it's just, it's the kind of thing I only notice when

[01:18:48] I watch a show like for the eight hundredth time that I'll be like, oh, look at how she

[01:18:52] holds her hand and she's doing the same thing gives me an appreciation of the performance.

[01:19:00] They do a nice job.

[01:19:02] And this is one of those episodes two where I feel like the chemistry and the banter between

[01:19:08] Zander and Cordelia is kind of at its peak.

[01:19:13] Like I'm not irritated by either of them in this episode.

[01:19:15] It's just so funny.

[01:19:17] And when was it?

[01:19:18] Is it Zander says something to Cordelia about how she looks nice?

[01:19:22] She walks around with her closet.

[01:19:24] Oh, yeah.

[01:19:25] I was like, look, you look nice to it.

[01:19:27] And she's just like, what are we playing with you?

[01:19:30] And she freaks out assuming that people are going to figure out.

[01:19:34] And I like the fact that he's eating those cookies as he's dealing with this freak out

[01:19:40] and that's when he is like, well, you want to go to the janitor's closet and make out

[01:19:44] or whatever.

[01:19:45] And I was like, of course, Zander, like, that's where he goes when he's all relaxed.

[01:19:50] But they balance each other out in this one.

[01:19:52] And it's kind of a nice, cute distraction.

[01:19:55] Yeah.

[01:19:56] I was surprised that they were already sort of together in this point.

[01:20:04] In my mind, I feel like that took seasons to actually come to fruition.

[01:20:09] But yeah, they're already there.

[01:20:12] And I do like that.

[01:20:14] She's like, is that all you think about and then pause for a minute?

[01:20:17] It's like, okay, let's go.

[01:20:18] Yeah, it's like, all right.

[01:20:19] Yeah, it's like a good point.

[01:20:21] Yeah.

[01:20:22] And there's still a secret at this point.

[01:20:25] Nobody else knows about them.

[01:20:26] But Willow is like, what's up with those two?

[01:20:30] Because she knows Zander better than anyone.

[01:20:32] God.

[01:20:33] Yeah.

[01:20:34] I love also when Zander is like, I wish I could kill him.

[01:20:37] I wish I could get my hands on that guy and then he takes some cookie and he's like, it's

[01:20:41] all right.

[01:20:42] Yeah.

[01:20:43] It's not going to be fine.

[01:20:44] And then Willow grabs the cookie and looks at it suspiciously.

[01:20:47] It's such a good Willow moment where she's like, it's something no one else is seeing.

[01:20:51] I will say, yeah, that is one moment of having to suspend my disbelief when she looks

[01:20:58] at the cookies under a microscope and is able to tell like, these are like make up

[01:21:04] is.

[01:21:05] Yeah.

[01:21:06] That's all right guys.

[01:21:08] There were there were a lot of little fun moments and quotes peppered throughout this

[01:21:14] episode.

[01:21:15] Like when Buffy is all stressed and goes out patrolling and wants to you know, find a

[01:21:20] vampire to take her stress out on and she's like sitting in the play playground.

[01:21:25] She's like, here vampires like come on like something come out.

[01:21:32] It's such a charming show even when it's tackling serious stuff.

[01:21:41] It makes me happy.

[01:21:42] Yeah.

[01:21:43] It has sweetness to it.

[01:21:44] Like Jenny and Giles are very sweet together and he also gets to have the cool kill where

[01:21:50] he pulls the arrow out of himself and like, yeah, very Darryl Dixon from walking day.

[01:21:57] It's real badass.

[01:21:59] Buffy at the end of the episode when you know they're talking about, yeah let's forget

[01:22:04] about this like time to move on and they walk past the library and start to go in only

[01:22:09] to see Giles and his calendar making out and she's like, that's it.

[01:22:14] I give up.

[01:22:15] Yeah.

[01:22:17] Yeah, she starts the episode out walking on a parental figure making out with somebody

[01:22:22] and then ends the episode doing the same thing.

[01:22:25] Nice little bookends for her.

[01:22:29] Yeah.

[01:22:30] The fashion in this episode is it's starting to get better but this is the era of

[01:22:37] the show when they kept putting Willow in dopey hats and it's so distracting.

[01:22:43] I'm like, why is she wearing that?

[01:22:45] They're in Southern California and she's wearing like a thick fleece hat that doesn't go

[01:22:52] with anything else that she's wearing.

[01:22:55] I know they want to make her seem nerdy and awkward but like the way they dress Willow

[01:23:00] especially this season it's all like mismatch, multicolored, fuzzy.

[01:23:06] Lots of stuff is fuzzy.

[01:23:08] Yeah.

[01:23:09] Even into the next season there's a particularly awful pink sweater.

[01:23:14] Oh yeah.

[01:23:15] That stands out.

[01:23:16] It's just like, guys, what are you doing?

[01:23:19] That one's in the wish.

[01:23:20] I know exactly what sweater you're talking about.

[01:23:23] That was particularly awful but they should go back to Halloween a little bit more.

[01:23:30] Work that in a little bit.

[01:23:31] It does feel similar to the thing in the Barbie movie where they're like, if you want us

[01:23:37] to believe this character is like this, you shouldn't have cast the safters.

[01:23:41] Yeah.

[01:23:42] Exactly.

[01:23:43] Believe this, I do like buffies overalls too in this episode that I think I wore overalls

[01:23:51] all the time because when I could sneak views of buffy when I wasn't supposed to there

[01:23:57] was a lot of overalls.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:24:00] And this one in particular they're like the overalls of sadness because she's dealing

[01:24:04] with Ted but it's a good look.

[01:24:08] And they will like it better than the bucket hat that they keep putting Willow in.

[01:24:12] Yeah.

[01:24:13] Which are so back now bucket hats are trending and I'm confused.

[01:24:20] Yeah, they make me feel old.

[01:24:22] They don't fit on my head correctly.

[01:24:24] There's something about the shape of my head where they always sort of like ride up and then

[01:24:29] I end up with like what looks like a top hat and it.

[01:24:33] Yeah.

[01:24:34] It's just not for me.

[01:24:35] My head's slightly too big for most hats as well.

[01:24:38] I avoid the luckies.

[01:24:40] Buffy's leopard print like cammy that she's wearing when they're golfing that felt very

[01:24:47] spot on for late 90s.

[01:24:49] Yeah.

[01:24:50] That's like oh this is good.

[01:24:51] I like that.

[01:24:54] And she always has her hair like blown out and in some kind of up do.

[01:24:58] That was also whether it's not or sunglasses.

[01:25:02] Yeah pushing it back.

[01:25:03] Yeah.

[01:25:04] In the 90s that was very like Jennifer Aniston on friends.

[01:25:10] That was that hairstyle that was like wildly popular at the time.

[01:25:15] I love it.

[01:25:18] I love the theme music to this show.

[01:25:22] Oh yeah, that's sort of surf guitar but spooky.

[01:25:25] Yeah.

[01:25:26] It's like there's something about that that's very energizing to me when I hear it and

[01:25:33] I love it.

[01:25:34] And I was worried when this episode started they did the previously and then it just went

[01:25:39] into like a kind of a cold opening and I was like oh no, are they not do the music?

[01:25:44] Yeah.

[01:25:45] And then it finally came in and I was like yes, it's here.

[01:25:49] The other music in this episode was unremarkable.

[01:25:52] I looked it up and it was just like sort of instrumental and stuff.

[01:25:56] Sometimes they have great what we call needle drops.

[01:26:00] You know like popular songs make an appearance or they have actual bands at the bronze that

[01:26:06] are playing and the music is really important but this was not a music episode.

[01:26:11] Yeah.

[01:26:12] Yeah.

[01:26:13] One of the other things I picked up on is the vampire noises.

[01:26:19] They sound like they use like lion growls or something along those lines every time a

[01:26:24] vampire shows up.

[01:26:25] And this is the first time I've actually assessed what that sound was.

[01:26:29] I was like that's an interesting choice.

[01:26:32] They do they look a little cat like when they have all the vampire makeup on so it's

[01:26:37] sort of makes sense but it's interesting that it pops out in a lion wrap happens.

[01:26:41] What is that?

[01:26:42] Is it that Stephen King movie, the sleep walkers?

[01:26:47] Yeah.

[01:26:48] That's what they look like.

[01:26:50] And yeah.

[01:26:51] And I guess that was I mean I guess I was early 90s.

[01:26:54] That's that.

[01:26:55] I think I had nightmares from watching that when it was on really late at night one time

[01:26:59] when I was a kid so it is seared into my brain.

[01:27:03] Yep.

[01:27:04] For me that movie is in the Asian of the body snatchers, the 70s one with Donald Sutherland.

[01:27:11] I watched that alone in the middle of the night when I was way too young and I'll never

[01:27:15] recover.

[01:27:16] It's so funny how there are certain things that will do that to you when you're a kid.

[01:27:23] Mine was child's part.

[01:27:25] Oh yes.

[01:27:26] Shucky which I eventually got over but even to this day like when I see an image of him

[01:27:32] I'll still get that like little jolt of like oh there he is okay I'm ready for this.

[01:27:37] There's a barber shop near my house that has Chuckie in the window wearing a barber apron

[01:27:44] and holding like barber tools and it's and he has a sign around his neck that's like come

[01:27:51] on in and I'm like nice try serial killer doll.

[01:27:54] Not do it.

[01:27:55] I'm not going in there.

[01:27:57] Oh my god.

[01:27:58] Yeah.

[01:27:59] Fool me once.

[01:28:00] Yes.

[01:28:01] I was on George W. Bush Club.

[01:28:06] You could fool you can never get fooled again.

[01:28:08] Every time someone's come pop into my head anyway.

[01:28:13] Oh man.

[01:28:15] So I think this is the first appearance of the set that becomes the magic shop.

[01:28:22] Yes.

[01:28:23] The upstairs of Ted's is what is a location that happens to show up in the show no spoilers

[01:28:33] I guess.

[01:28:36] Just seeing them in that I was looking I was like that.

[01:28:38] It's familiar.

[01:28:39] It's familiar and I think it gets repurposed.

[01:28:42] Awesome.

[01:28:43] Yes.

[01:28:44] We've come to the point in the episode where I have to ask a very important question.

[01:28:49] Eddie will start with you.

[01:28:51] Does it still slay?

[01:28:54] Yes.

[01:28:57] It still slays and I'll say I think because of the fact that it addresses such a heavy topic

[01:29:04] in I don't want to say lighthearted way but in a very digestible way.

[01:29:10] I think that's very impressive for the time.

[01:29:14] So yes, it's lace.

[01:29:16] Kara?

[01:29:17] Yeah.

[01:29:18] I think that it does still slay with addressing this heavy topic but also because anytime John

[01:29:26] Ritter is on my screen, I am happy.

[01:29:31] So that makes it unanimous.

[01:29:34] Three votes for still slaying after all these years.

[01:29:38] Thank you Buffy.

[01:29:41] We don't have any news this week.

[01:29:42] I know that's not surprising for a 25 year old show.

[01:29:48] But I do want to remind people we talked about it last time about the audio series coming

[01:29:53] up on audible.com.

[01:29:55] That's October 12th and Kara and I haven't figured out yet how we're going to cover that

[01:29:59] exactly.

[01:30:00] I don't know how many episodes it is so it's kind of hard to plan but we will cover it

[01:30:05] and we'll let you know as soon as we know.

[01:30:08] Which brings us to the bronze for some listener feedback and so fun.

[01:30:16] Bronze things, things of bronze.

[01:30:19] Randy, you want to start us off with that first one?

[01:30:22] Sure.

[01:30:23] Abby Pepper says, I remember watching this when I was probably too young leaving Buffy

[01:30:29] when she told them that Ted had assaulted her was the scariest part.

[01:30:33] I also think this episode is partly responsible for my fascination with serial killers.

[01:30:38] I.E. Ted's wives and the closet and the bunker.

[01:30:42] Is this where the sauce stems from?

[01:30:45] We all into serial killers because of Buffy.

[01:30:48] I like that spot.

[01:30:51] Oh man.

[01:30:53] Next from Erica Land, she said John Ritter was fantastic playing the nice guy next door

[01:30:59] that had the hidden evil agenda.

[01:31:01] The episode always gave me a sinking feeling in my stomach knowing that the thin veil of

[01:31:06] a nice facade that people can, people show can be stripped away just as easily.

[01:31:12] Very true.

[01:31:13] Yes.

[01:31:14] And then Karen Schmeltkohn says, I remember seeing this the first time in being so surprised

[01:31:20] that Ritter could be so creepy.

[01:31:24] Not that normal for him.

[01:31:26] Definitely playing against type for him.

[01:31:30] Yep.

[01:31:31] So there's a trigger warning for child abuse mentions in this one.

[01:31:37] Clementine 3 says, this episode always made me feel so uncomfortable but I think that's

[01:31:42] a good thing because of the necessary parallels to situations of child abuse.

[01:31:47] John Ritter was a fantastic actor and without him in this role I don't think it would have

[01:31:52] worked as an episode or been nearly as impactful.

[01:31:55] I agree.

[01:31:56] I agree.

[01:31:57] I agree.

[01:31:58] I agree.

[01:31:59] Yep.

[01:32:00] Completely.

[01:32:01] Knowing him as a nice guy and then seeing a nice guy play such an evil character is it parallels

[01:32:10] exactly what's happening in these situations.

[01:32:12] We all know John Ritter has like a super nice guy but he suddenly playing a creepy guy

[01:32:17] and we're like, wait a second.

[01:32:19] I didn't even know he had that in him.

[01:32:22] It's so 90s because it was so meta.

[01:32:25] Well and with this is kind of funny because I happen to watch the movie Barbarian last

[01:32:33] night for the first time.

[01:32:34] I don't know if you all have seen that.

[01:32:35] I haven't seen an excellent horror movie but and this is slightly spoilery if you haven't

[01:32:42] seen it but that movie plays on our expectations of certain actors and their roles so Bill Skarsgard

[01:32:50] is in it and so is just in long and both of them have certain reputations and characters

[01:32:58] that they're known to play and that absolutely impacts your expectations and how you view

[01:33:03] the movie and it was fantastic.

[01:33:06] So the fact that I watched that last night and then thinking about this episode I was

[01:33:11] like, oh man that's a really good point.

[01:33:14] John Ritter I see as this charming wonderful father figure or you know, charming Jack and

[01:33:21] three's company and that absolutely plays into how you view this episode.

[01:33:26] Yeah it makes for the best twist because you're not ready for it even if you know, even after

[01:33:32] all these times I've watched it, I still get sort of taken in by Ted in the beginning

[01:33:38] episode.

[01:33:39] I'm like he does seem really, I can understand why Joyce wanted to date this guy.

[01:33:43] I would have dated him.

[01:33:44] Like if I had met that guy and he was all like knowing about computers and I want to cook

[01:33:51] for you, I would have been like this sounds great.

[01:33:53] Pete's a big old thing.

[01:33:54] Please keep cooking.

[01:33:55] Yeah.

[01:33:56] Yeah, wonderful.

[01:33:57] Oh God.

[01:33:58] Alright so that's the end of the main section of the podcast.

[01:34:05] Stay tuned if you want to hear the spoilery discussion.

[01:34:10] And if you'd like to join the conversation or find out more about podcastica, you can

[01:34:15] find all of our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:34:19] You can write in or record a voice message right there on the website or find links to

[01:34:25] all of our various social media pages and the best thing.

[01:34:29] All of the other shows that podcastica puts out.

[01:34:33] Yeah.

[01:34:34] I have been loving the white lotus coverage windy.

[01:34:37] It's so good.

[01:34:38] It's so good.

[01:34:39] I've listened to the season two episode one episode.

[01:34:44] Yep.

[01:34:45] Last night and I was just like damn it.

[01:34:48] It is great.

[01:34:49] And if you need a little entry way to listening to that episode, we go deep into detail on

[01:34:58] the length of a prosthetic in the episode.

[01:35:01] So if you're curious to hear about that, you definitely should check it out.

[01:35:08] It's highly entertaining.

[01:35:10] Also going on right now at podcastica is coverage of Asoka on Disney Plus, the new Star

[01:35:17] War series and that show is turning out to be really good.

[01:35:22] It had a little bit of a slow start for me but I like it now and the podcast coverage

[01:35:26] has been great.

[01:35:28] Yeah.

[01:35:29] And covering the new Daryl Dixon show which makes me happy.

[01:35:37] We Daryl Dixon and Harry.

[01:35:39] Yeah.

[01:35:40] Jason and Lucy are back covering that and it's so good to have them talking zombies again.

[01:35:44] I love it.

[01:35:45] I missed it.

[01:35:46] And then run for your lives has been covering a couple of awesome movies lately.

[01:35:52] I just finished checking out their coverage of the Meg 2 which is the fast and the furious

[01:36:00] of shark movies.

[01:36:02] So we're checking out and we're checking their coverage of it as well.

[01:36:06] So what's your lives is one that I feel like they don't get mentioned enough.

[01:36:11] If you like disaster movies at all, it is so much fun.

[01:36:15] Like as soon as I heard way back when they were covering Dante's peak, I was all in.

[01:36:20] Yeah.

[01:36:21] And I like the format that they use and the way they cover it.

[01:36:25] Daffy and Peic have really nice chemistry together.

[01:36:27] It's true.

[01:36:28] Thank you.

[01:36:33] And if you like what we do, hit like, follow and subscribe.

[01:36:36] It really helps other listeners find us.

[01:36:40] Our next episode is going to be in two weeks.

[01:36:43] Sometimes real life interferes with podcasting life and we're going to have to skip it.

[01:36:49] You guys are going out patrolling for a little bit.

[01:36:52] Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to slay some some monsters.

[01:36:56] Yeah.

[01:36:57] There's a back.

[01:36:58] How many?

[01:36:59] There is that almost got political.

[01:37:03] Anyway, we're back.

[01:37:05] We'll be covering season two episode 13 surprise and we'll be joined by on when one of the

[01:37:11] hosts of podcasticas, the cast of the rings along with Penny.

[01:37:17] And if you have enjoyed Randy on this podcast, then you should definitely check out Welcome

[01:37:22] to the White Loan.

[01:37:23] Yes, we were forward to seeing you there.

[01:37:26] So good.

[01:37:28] So keep sending it back everyone with a tropical cocktail.

[01:37:31] Yeah, every episode we digitally send you on.

[01:37:36] We accept tips but it's not necessary.

[01:37:44] Thank you guys for joining us.

[01:37:45] It means the world to us.

[01:37:48] Back to different little lady.

[01:37:50] All right.

[01:37:51] That's the end of the non spoiler section.

[01:37:54] If you want to avoid spoilers, you should stop listening.

[01:37:57] Three, two, one.

[01:38:00] Wait, wait, wait.

[01:38:01] No, okay.

[01:38:02] Yeah, go ahead.

[01:38:03] Okay.

[01:38:04] Just too bad we can't sneak a look at the watcher diaries.

[01:38:08] I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell.

[01:38:11] Yeah.

[01:38:12] That's too bad.

[01:38:14] That stuff is private.

[01:38:15] Also Jowls keeps them in his office and his personal files.

[01:38:21] And it's important that it would be wrong.

[01:38:28] Welcome to the watcher's diaries.

[01:38:30] What were you dying to say in the main part of the podcast that was spoiler-ish?

[01:38:36] When Willow kept some of Ted's parts, I couldn't help but think about how she reversed

[01:38:42] engineers basically the Buffy bot.

[01:38:45] Yeah.

[01:38:46] And way later on and how freaking creepy it is that Spike, you know, we talked about this

[01:38:52] before, Spike's relationship with the Buffy bot is terrifying.

[01:38:55] But the fact that Joyce is the only the first one in the show to run up against a robot

[01:39:04] is wild.

[01:39:05] Like, this comes up again.

[01:39:09] And it's just as creepy I feel like each time there's a more foreshadowing.

[01:39:16] Right of what's going to happen later in the season with Angel.

[01:39:20] This is the big theme of this season is that dating is dangerous and people can turn on

[01:39:25] you.

[01:39:26] And it's coming with Angel.

[01:39:28] I also thought it was a nice little precursor to there's a domestic violence in a dating

[01:39:36] relationship episode in season three, yeah, with a friend of Oz who's being hit and

[01:39:45] controlled by her boyfriend.

[01:39:48] I couldn't stop thinking about that when I was watching this episode, I was like, oh,

[01:39:51] this is going to come back.

[01:39:54] I finished the season, the final season of sex education last night and it also has a dating

[01:40:00] domestic abuse plotline in the fourth season which I think it's good.

[01:40:05] Oh beauty in the beast is what you're talking about in season three.

[01:40:12] Yeah.

[01:40:13] That's intense too.

[01:40:15] Yeah, but they don't know if it's Oz, Killer or Angel that it turns out to be that out

[01:40:22] of a die.

[01:40:23] I also couldn't like every time Giles and this calendar root being cute.

[01:40:30] It just like hurt my heart a little bit because I know what's coming and it's so intense.

[01:40:39] And he just you see him falling for her more and more.

[01:40:45] And the pain that is heading his way, I was like, damn it, I'm not ready for this.

[01:40:50] Yeah, that episode's going to be painful to talk about.

[01:40:53] It's a really powerful one.

[01:40:55] That's coming later in the season you guys.

[01:40:58] Yeah, so good.

[01:41:01] I do love that it feels, the show feels this and a couple others they feel very much like

[01:41:08] comic books where there's all these things that get seeded really early and then later.

[01:41:13] I don't know if they intentionally seed them early and then they just come to fruition

[01:41:18] later or if they look back and are like, we can build something off of it.

[01:41:22] It's just so much fun that that like happened for.

[01:41:25] But once Dawn appears, is that season five?

[01:41:28] Yes, yeah, once Dawn appears she makes a reference to Ted and feeling like there are other

[01:41:37] you know, Ted's out there.

[01:41:38] There are other robots out there and I love the fact that they brought that up with

[01:41:42] her like that just shows how deep the memories that are planted and Dawn go and they call

[01:41:48] back all the way to season two with this one episode.

[01:41:52] It's just the writing in the show.

[01:41:55] So well executed.

[01:41:58] I said we weren't going to talk about him but Josh Wheaton and his brother, Jed, are big

[01:42:04] time comic book writers as well.

[01:42:06] So the comic book feeling is true.

[01:42:10] Yeah, yeah, you had a run on AXMEN for a while that was really good so it clearly isn't

[01:42:16] influence in his writing style.

[01:42:19] No, not really.

[01:42:21] I'll see what else was in my spoiler notes.

[01:42:25] Oh, oh the corny guy who's secretly evil is the mayor right?

[01:42:32] We're going to get him for a whole season.

[01:42:35] I love the mayor.

[01:42:36] I hate him and I like him but he's just so much fun to watch but the one thing that I

[01:42:41] thought of when Ted threatened to put Buffy in a mental institution, it may be a slash

[01:42:47] to normal again and I was like that's kind of brilliant.

[01:42:52] The idea that they could have just shoved her in a mental institution and that they played

[01:42:56] around with that kind of this early on.

[01:43:00] Interesting.

[01:43:02] I think.

[01:43:03] And how more references to Giles' past when Cordelia brings up how Giles would understand

[01:43:10] how it feels being responsible for a human death and he's like, yes please do bring that

[01:43:15] up as well.

[01:43:16] Yeah, that was so good.

[01:43:20] But we see that that comes up over and over it'll come up later on in any background

[01:43:27] with Giles.

[01:43:29] Yeah, there was talk for a while of a spinoff starring him set in England called like

[01:43:37] watcher or the watchers or something like that and it didn't happen and I wondered

[01:43:41] if it's something like that.

[01:43:42] Yeah, it does feel like they could do at least a prequel or something with him because

[01:43:45] he clearly has a detailed past he knows things so yeah.

[01:43:51] Yeah, and I'd love to see like the watchers council and you know how they train people

[01:43:57] and all the ridiculous stuff in this.

[01:44:00] A story that comes up with like the council of watchers or at least a few more.

[01:44:06] Yeah, they come.

[01:44:08] They visit.

[01:44:09] We can't wait until in season three.

[01:44:14] There's two different council visits in season three and there's definitely another

[01:44:18] one in season four and oh and season five one of my all time favorite episodes is checkpoint

[01:44:24] when they when the watchers come to test Buffy such a good episode and then I think

[01:44:30] they all get killed.

[01:44:31] That's what I remember is yeah, they blow up the that was it.

[01:44:36] Yeah, the watchers counts like it's blown up and then individual watchers are like

[01:44:41] all being hunted by those no eye guys.

[01:44:43] I'm not going to lie.

[01:44:44] I did think when we were talking about you know kind of the inappropriateness and the

[01:44:48] age difference between angel and Buffy.

[01:44:52] I have been on my rewatch right now.

[01:44:54] I'm in season three and watching Wesley and Cordelia is making me extra uncomfortable

[01:45:03] and even thinking about that their age difference is not more than 10 years.

[01:45:06] No, she is 18 but it still makes me feel more uncomfortable than Buffy and Angel and

[01:45:13] I don't know what that says about this show.

[01:45:15] Well, they sell us Buffy and Angel over and over and over and over and there's less

[01:45:18] supernatural mixing in there.

[01:45:22] That's true.

[01:45:23] Yeah, when Cordelia is a regular teenage girl Wesley teenage girl.

[01:45:28] Yeah, it's like stuff.

[01:45:31] Their relationship is so funny though because I love that cordelia yet is just so blatant

[01:45:36] about being interested in Wesley and and Zander just like calls her on it constantly and

[01:45:42] he's like you have no shame and she's like like shame is a good thing.

[01:45:48] She's surprisingly one of my favorite characters especially when you think of like from

[01:45:53] the first season you're like okay this is going to be kind of a one note character and

[01:45:57] I don't know she ends up being a lot of fun.

[01:46:00] Yeah, and she calls the audience on it in season three she's like what I can't have

[01:46:06] yeah, when you think about you know her Cordion this show and Cordi over on Angel she has

[01:46:16] some of the most drastic character development.

[01:46:19] Yeah, yeah, see in the Buffyverse and it's it's it's great.

[01:46:24] It's great.

[01:46:25] Yeah, the story about her family losing their money and and therefore Cordi losing

[01:46:30] you know a large part of her identity is powerful.

[01:46:35] Yeah, God.

[01:46:39] Now it just makes me want to go like go rewatch everything.

[01:46:43] As much as spoiler related to this but I thinking back my favorite episode is when we get

[01:46:48] the history of Spike and you actually see him dealing with slayers that is that's what

[01:46:54] stands out the most today so.

[01:46:57] Is that a cross over the angel?

[01:47:03] Yeah, yeah, seeing him in the 70s and yeah just through time so good.

[01:47:09] Yeah, the subway fight with that other slayer is such a good fight.

[01:47:15] I like the human reveal seeing.

[01:47:18] Oh yeah.

[01:47:19] Yeah.

[01:47:20] It's just oh yeah it's fantastic.

[01:47:27] Oh God I can't wait to get there.

[01:47:30] It's so funny I'm so enjoying where we are but I keep thinking oh and then we're going

[01:47:34] to get to some other stuff that's really great like I'm impatient but also right.

[01:47:40] Yeah, you want to like watch and talk about all of it in like a condensed hour somehow.

[01:47:47] Yeah, but this is so fun.

[01:47:50] Season has some serious gems and I'm excited to get to surprise an innocence in particular.

[01:48:00] Those are going to be really fun.

[01:48:03] That'll be in two weeks and we'll be back.

[01:48:10] In the meantime send in your feedback about any episode up to the point that we're at

[01:48:15] or if you want to send in something spoilery just label it spoilers and we'll play it at

[01:48:21] the end or read it at the end of the episode.

[01:48:24] Awesome.

[01:48:25] All right I think that's the complete end of our show.

[01:48:32] Thanks for listening everyone and until next time, I'm Penny.

[01:48:37] I'm Randy.

[01:48:39] And I'm Kara.

[01:48:45] Bye.

[01:48:46] Bye.

[01:48:47] Bye.

[01:48:48] Bye.

[01:48:49] Bye.

[01:48:50] Bye.

[01:48:51] Bye.

[01:48:52] Bye.

[01:48:53] Bye.

[01:48:54] Bye.

[01:48:55] Bye.

[01:48:56] Bye.

[01:48:57] Bye.

[01:48:58] Bye.

[01:48:59] Bye.

[01:49:00] Bye.

[01:49:01] Bye.

[01:49:02] Bye.

[01:49:03] Bye.

[01:49:04] Bye.

[01:49:05] Bye.

[01:49:06] Bye.

[01:49:07] Bye.

[01:49:08] Bye.

[01:49:09] Bye.

[01:49:10] Bye.

[01:49:11] Bye.

[01:49:12] Bye.

[01:49:13] Bye.

[01:49:14] Bye.

[01:49:15] Bye.

[01:49:16] Bye.

[01:49:17] Bye.

[01:49:18] Bye.

[01:49:19] Bye.

[01:49:20] Bye.