40: “Living Conditions” (BTVS S4E2)

[00:00:00] Hmm?

[00:00:01] Ah!

[00:00:02] Hmm...

[00:00:16] Hmm...

[00:01:42] I'm Penny.

[00:01:44] And I'm Sam.

[00:01:45] And I'm Kara.

[00:01:47] For this episode, we're going to be discussing Season 4, Episode 2 of Buffy, Living Conditions,

[00:01:54] written by Marty Noxon and directed by David Grossman.

[00:01:57] This episode originally aired on October 12, 1999 to an audience of 3.8 million households.

[00:02:04] Some alternative titles in other languages for this episode were, Difficult Cohabitation

[00:02:11] in French, very, very literal.

[00:02:15] Annoying Roommate in Finnish, also very straightforward.

[00:02:21] Escape from the Underworld in Italian.

[00:02:25] Oh my god.

[00:02:26] It's like Dante's in France.

[00:02:27] Yeah, it's like very Dante.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:30] And then, parentheses, not closed parentheses, a human soul.

[00:02:35] In German.

[00:02:36] The German ones are the best!

[00:02:38] Oh my god.

[00:02:38] They always give away the plot.

[00:02:40] Every time.

[00:02:40] They're like, we don't want anyone to be surprised.

[00:02:43] Yeah.

[00:02:45] Oh my god.

[00:02:47] So, you just heard the voice of the lovely Sam, who is joining us as a official member

[00:02:57] of the Still Slaying team.

[00:02:59] Yay!

[00:02:59] And she will be hosting, guest hosting a lot more from now on.

[00:03:04] We'll scatter her throughout the season four and Angel season one episodes.

[00:03:09] Me.

[00:03:10] And it'll let Kara and me and Jim all sort of rotate around and we can all, you know,

[00:03:17] occasionally take breaks and other people can pick up the ball.

[00:03:20] And sometimes it'll be all four of us and sometimes it'll be two of us.

[00:03:23] It's gonna be great.

[00:03:24] Woo!

[00:03:24] And sometimes there'll be other guests as well.

[00:03:27] It's all very exciting.

[00:03:29] It's all happening.

[00:03:30] Sam, where were you in the fall of 1999?

[00:03:34] Ooh.

[00:03:35] That's a good question.

[00:03:37] I was in high school.

[00:03:41] Finally started high school.

[00:03:43] And I would have been 14 going on 15 during that time.

[00:03:50] Nice.

[00:03:51] In South Florida.

[00:03:55] You're both such babies.

[00:03:56] Little infants.

[00:03:57] Just little children.

[00:04:01] Buffy in the formative years.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:05] It had a big influence.

[00:04:07] Not gonna lie.

[00:04:08] Yeah.

[00:04:10] Absolutely.

[00:04:12] What about you guys?

[00:04:13] I'm so old.

[00:04:14] I was in law school in New York and I was interviewing for, for law firm jobs

[00:04:20] and that entailed a lot of traipsing around Boston, New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco.

[00:04:30] It was a chaotic time in my life.

[00:04:33] I was in my...

[00:04:33] It was a lot of, like, travel.

[00:04:35] First semester of middle school in sixth grade.

[00:04:40] Aww.

[00:04:43] The little babies.

[00:04:44] The little babies.

[00:04:45] The little babies.

[00:04:45] Special, special time.

[00:04:48] I like how we were in school and Penny's experience.

[00:04:52] Like, you could have worked for Wolfram and Hart.

[00:04:54] I...

[00:04:55] Right?

[00:04:55] I mean, you're too good to work there.

[00:04:56] Practically did.

[00:04:58] But, um...

[00:05:00] All law firms...

[00:05:01] All law firms are a little bit like Wolfram and Hart.

[00:05:05] That, exactly.

[00:05:05] In my experience.

[00:05:07] Yeah.

[00:05:07] I hear.

[00:05:10] Yep.

[00:05:10] Let's, let's revisit what else was going on in 1999.

[00:05:15] Ooh!

[00:05:19] And of course, just like last week, the number one song in the US is still Heartbreaker

[00:05:24] by Mariah Carey featuring Jay-Z.

[00:05:27] And the number one song in the UK is now Genie in a Bottle by Christina Aguilera.

[00:05:33] And I remember playing that on repeat.

[00:05:36] Same!

[00:05:38] I didn't get into Christina Aguilera until...

[00:05:41] It was like, I think her second album.

[00:05:44] I don't even remember.

[00:05:45] I think it was, um...

[00:05:47] That song Come On Over.

[00:05:48] That's the one that...

[00:05:49] Oh yeah.

[00:05:49] That's a good song.

[00:05:51] I think that's on her first.

[00:05:53] I can't remember.

[00:05:55] I know I owned it.

[00:05:56] Yeah, same.

[00:05:57] I just didn't remember anything else about it.

[00:05:58] On our little CD players.

[00:06:00] I don't remember anything else about it.

[00:06:01] Kara, did your...

[00:06:02] Did...

[00:06:03] I always wonder what our parents thought as like, well, you were preteen and I was only

[00:06:07] 14 singing Genie in a Bottle, You Gotta Rub Me the Right Way.

[00:06:12] Um, I sang...

[00:06:14] I just...

[00:06:15] I just wonder.

[00:06:16] I was big into theater and musical theater and singing.

[00:06:20] And so my parents got to listen to me, this is also relevant a bit for later, like belt

[00:06:26] Celine Dion or Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera or like Destiny's Child.

[00:06:33] Oh my God.

[00:06:33] And my mom actually took me to a Britney Spears concert and a Destiny's Child and Christina

[00:06:38] Aguilera concert.

[00:06:40] Oh.

[00:06:40] And I had so much fun, but I can remember her telling my dad at some point like, she doesn't

[00:06:47] understand what they mean.

[00:06:48] Like it all goes over her head.

[00:06:50] It's fine.

[00:06:51] Which was not true, by the way.

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] You knew what it meant.

[00:06:55] Yeah.

[00:06:56] I was just like, you guys let me watch American Pie.

[00:06:59] Like what the hell?

[00:07:00] Anyway.

[00:07:01] Yeah.

[00:07:01] Also that movie was tangential in my knowledge building as well.

[00:07:07] Cause we didn't even have sex ed in South Florida.

[00:07:11] So like...

[00:07:12] So yeah.

[00:07:12] Gotta love that Florida education system.

[00:07:15] Yep.

[00:07:15] Yep.

[00:07:16] We had health and it was like a very small portion of our health class in high school,

[00:07:22] but not enough.

[00:07:23] We just had dare.

[00:07:25] We had very little sex ed, but not much.

[00:07:27] It wasn't a lot.

[00:07:29] We had dare.

[00:07:29] Thank God I had a friend who had a copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves.

[00:07:33] Oh yeah.

[00:07:34] That is the...

[00:07:35] Yeah.

[00:07:35] That's the way to go.

[00:07:37] Mine was American Pie, Sex and the City, and HBO's Oz.

[00:07:43] Oh God.

[00:07:44] Oh my God.

[00:07:45] Oh my God.

[00:07:45] That's intense.

[00:07:46] This is what happens.

[00:07:48] Oh, and yeah.

[00:07:49] Yeah.

[00:07:49] And then they also, HBO had a show called Real Sex that I was way too young to be watching.

[00:07:54] I was raised by wolves.

[00:07:56] Like...

[00:07:57] Apparently.

[00:07:58] My mom was a pediatric nurse, so we had a lot of sit down, very detailed conversations,

[00:08:04] especially if like something in particular happened that like to me or I brought something up that

[00:08:12] drilled up memories from when she worked and I learned a lot really fast.

[00:08:18] Oh yeah.

[00:08:19] I will say it was helpful though, because my friends had no idea what they were talking about.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:25] There's a lot of that.

[00:08:27] Yeah.

[00:08:27] Your mom did you a real service.

[00:08:29] It may have been bracing at the time, but it was a lovely thing to do for her daughter.

[00:08:34] I'm very thankful for her.

[00:08:35] Oh gosh.

[00:08:36] And also at the time, I was reading Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban on repeat,

[00:08:41] which is still the best selling New York Times fiction book during the time this episode

[00:08:48] aired.

[00:08:49] That's some nostalgia.

[00:08:50] And then the number one nonfiction book during this time is Tiz by Frank McCourt.

[00:08:58] I've never heard of that.

[00:09:00] Sounds very pretentious.

[00:09:01] I'm curious.

[00:09:01] And Double Jeopardy still holds the number one spot in the US box office.

[00:09:07] And American Beauty is pushed to number three by Random Hearts, which stole the number two spot.

[00:09:15] I liked Double Jeopardy as a movie.

[00:09:18] I think it's still kind of holds up.

[00:09:20] As long as you don't pay attention to how wrong it is.

[00:09:28] Really?

[00:09:30] Yeah, that's fair.

[00:09:34] That is very fair.

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] The two lawyers.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:40] Is it Ashley Judd?

[00:09:41] Yeah.

[00:09:41] I like her.

[00:09:42] Ashley Judd when she's, I guess spoilers.

[00:09:45] I mean, can I do spoilers 25 years later?

[00:09:48] Yeah, I think we talked about it last week.

[00:09:49] Yeah, we talked about it last time.

[00:09:51] Yeah, we talked about it last time.

[00:09:51] Yeah, frame for her.

[00:09:53] I know the listeners can't tell, but I was like, yeah, the movie is going to be

[00:09:56] like, it kind of holds up and both the lawyers looked at me like, meh.

[00:10:02] You guys did it in a very sweet way.

[00:10:04] That's hilarious.

[00:10:05] Like, yeah.

[00:10:07] I don't know anything outside of my field.

[00:10:09] I really don't.

[00:10:11] Oh my gosh.

[00:10:13] I was like, that's fair.

[00:10:14] It doesn't hold up legally.

[00:10:17] On this day, the state is known as the Day of Six Billion as the United Nations Population

[00:10:24] Division declared that the world population had officially reached the six billion mark

[00:10:28] as the six billionth living human in the world was born.

[00:10:32] Dang.

[00:10:33] I always wonder how they do that, how they count that.

[00:10:37] I know.

[00:10:37] It's gotta be an estimate.

[00:10:38] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:10:39] American College and Basketball Hall of Fame Center, four-time NBA MVP, 13-time All-Star,

[00:10:46] NBA Championship 67, 72 MVP, Wilt Chamberlain, dies of heart failure at 63.

[00:10:53] Very sad.

[00:10:54] Also that week, on October 11th, Pedro Martinez throws six stellar hitless innings in relief

[00:11:01] to win game five for the Boston Red Sox and clinch the ALDS American League Division Series

[00:11:07] against the Cleveland Indians.

[00:11:09] And I'm sorry that I said Indians.

[00:11:12] Well, they were-

[00:11:13] That's what their name was at the time.

[00:11:14] Yeah, at the time.

[00:11:15] October 13th, Canadian Robert Mundell, later known as the father of the Euro, is named the

[00:11:21] winner of the 1999 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics.

[00:11:24] And on October 15th, 1999, despite international urging toward democracy, a bloodless coup took

[00:11:33] place in Pakistan and coup leader General Pervez Musharraf assumed power, suspended the Constitution,

[00:11:40] and dissolved Parliament.

[00:11:42] Whew!

[00:11:43] That's quite a week.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:45] Really, really.

[00:11:47] Wow, man.

[00:11:50] All right, let's get into it about Kathy.

[00:11:52] Oh, Kathy.

[00:11:54] Oh, Kathy.

[00:11:55] Kathy.

[00:11:56] Kathy.

[00:11:58] Oh, boy.

[00:12:00] She's so special.

[00:12:02] As Oz said, you know, nobody deserves mime.

[00:12:05] That was so funny.

[00:12:06] I have that written down.

[00:12:08] Kathy might deserve mime.

[00:12:10] Hmm.

[00:12:12] Um, the actor who plays her, I just have to say, you know, we're gonna trash Kathy in

[00:12:17] this conversation, but, uh, we don't want anyone to interpret that as trashing this amazing

[00:12:22] actor whose name is Katherine something.

[00:12:24] She did a fabulous job.

[00:12:26] Did an amazing job throughout the episode.

[00:12:29] Like, so in character, so real, so three dimensional.

[00:12:34] I adore her.

[00:12:36] She has to be aggressive.

[00:12:36] How annoying she is.

[00:12:38] And, and, and I will say, the first time, all the many times I've watched this episode,

[00:12:44] having had horrible roommates in the past, and I'm curious about you guys, any of the

[00:12:49] stories you have, I couldn't stand Kathy, and I found myself watching it this time being

[00:12:58] like, except with the exception of the ending, uh, which obviously is not great.

[00:13:03] She's not that out of line.

[00:13:04] She has moments like the, the toenail thing.

[00:13:07] I'm like, that is one of my pet peeves.

[00:13:09] Cut your toenails in the bathroom.

[00:13:10] And I understand I've had roommates who do it and they like, they do pick up all the toenails.

[00:13:14] Um, but it's just like, yeah, it's just peppy of mine.

[00:13:18] But like, I'm watching, I'm watching her do that.

[00:13:20] And I'm like, I know I'm supposed to be on Buffy side.

[00:13:22] Cause she's our girl.

[00:13:23] She's our woman.

[00:13:24] But yeah, I felt the same way.

[00:13:28] This is the first time though.

[00:13:31] Every other time I've watched this, which has been a while, I was just like, Kathy, so

[00:13:37] noxious.

[00:13:38] And now I'm just like, Buffy, you started it.

[00:13:40] Why'd you drink her milk without asking?

[00:13:42] Like, what are you doing?

[00:13:44] So much of it.

[00:13:47] And then Kathy's like, you know, she starts off with the passive aggressiveness.

[00:13:51] Where she's like, no, it's not a big deal.

[00:13:54] It's like, if it's not a big deal, why are you bringing it up?

[00:13:57] Yeah.

[00:13:57] Yeah.

[00:13:58] Like, and then it's just weird.

[00:14:00] It's back and forth.

[00:14:03] Yeah.

[00:14:04] Um, both.

[00:14:04] I've had a lot of roommates over the years.

[00:14:07] And I have to say, so I made a little list of all the roommate stuff that was an issue.

[00:14:12] I love it.

[00:14:14] So, food, which is a big category.

[00:14:18] Yes.

[00:14:18] Phone bill, music, window open or closed, quiet versus loud, different hours, attaching herself

[00:14:28] to you, horning in on your social life, borrowing your clothes and ruining them, gum, labeling, everything.

[00:14:36] The gum.

[00:14:37] The gum sent me.

[00:14:39] Who pissed it?

[00:14:39] That is unforgivable.

[00:14:40] Gross, Buffy.

[00:14:41] Gross.

[00:14:42] Yeah.

[00:14:42] Like, Buffy is the worst roommate up until like the end.

[00:14:47] Like, I was like, Buffy, I'll take Kathy.

[00:14:50] Up until we find out that she's a demon sucking the powers from her.

[00:14:54] But like, Buffy's the worst.

[00:14:57] Like, yeah.

[00:14:57] The gum thing is truly unforgivable.

[00:15:00] That is disgusting, Buffy.

[00:15:01] Disgusting.

[00:15:01] No excuse for that.

[00:15:04] No.

[00:15:04] It's really gross.

[00:15:05] It's so gross.

[00:15:06] It was awful.

[00:15:07] And like, yeah.

[00:15:08] And the phone thing wouldn't be annoying.

[00:15:10] It's so funny now because everybody has individual cell phones.

[00:15:13] I know.

[00:15:14] When I was in college, splitting the phone bill was a really big deal.

[00:15:18] And when I had roommates after college, like, the phone bill fights and the like, I think

[00:15:23] you called that number.

[00:15:24] I think you called that number.

[00:15:25] Oh my gosh.

[00:15:26] Like, let's call that number right now and find out who it is.

[00:15:29] I don't know.

[00:15:30] Like, oh my God.

[00:15:31] Was that a real issue?

[00:15:33] Everybody I know who's ever had a roommate has had food stuff.

[00:15:37] Right?

[00:15:37] Oh yeah.

[00:15:37] Like, there's always been a roommate who steals food or.

[00:15:40] Oh boy.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] A roommate who has weird food stuff.

[00:15:43] I've had so many different variations on food issues with roommates.

[00:15:47] Yeah.

[00:15:48] And kitchen.

[00:15:48] And like the sleeping in my bed with a guy when I wasn't there.

[00:15:52] Ew.

[00:15:52] Ew.

[00:15:53] Ew.

[00:15:53] I got a lock on my door after that.

[00:15:56] Yeah.

[00:15:56] And everybody, I lived with, I lived with five other girls, one of which was one of

[00:16:03] my very best friends in high school.

[00:16:05] And we're still good.

[00:16:06] Like, but the rest were like more her close friends.

[00:16:10] And I learned very quickly that we were not compatible.

[00:16:14] Like they would eat my food.

[00:16:16] I went out of town and came back and my mom and my grandma were with me.

[00:16:22] And they were helping me carry my luggage in.

[00:16:25] I opened my room, my door, and I found one of my roommates in bed with a guy.

[00:16:31] And.

[00:16:32] Still in the bed.

[00:16:33] Oh my God.

[00:16:33] Yeah.

[00:16:34] And still drunk.

[00:16:36] And my roommate popped up and she goes, we didn't do anything.

[00:16:40] I was like, mm-hmm.

[00:16:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:43] And then after that, I put a lock on my door, which I thought was reasonable.

[00:16:46] Didn't she have her own room?

[00:16:48] Oh yeah, she did.

[00:16:49] But I had a bigger bed.

[00:16:51] What's she?

[00:16:51] Oh.

[00:16:52] That is really self-centered behavior.

[00:16:55] And crusty sheets.

[00:16:56] They were, yeah, they were a lot.

[00:17:00] Yeah.

[00:17:01] Oh God.

[00:17:01] My worst roommate was kind of all the things that you were talking about, Patty.

[00:17:07] Didn't have sex in my bed.

[00:17:09] But she would eat our food.

[00:17:13] And then, because she said, she's like, well, I'm a sleepwalker and I sleep eat, which

[00:17:18] is a thing.

[00:17:19] Yeah.

[00:17:20] But she would eat only our food.

[00:17:23] And then she.

[00:17:24] Odd how that.

[00:17:24] Yeah.

[00:17:25] Yeah.

[00:17:25] And then she'd be really, like, really nasty with paying us back, reimbursing us for eating

[00:17:33] our whole pizza.

[00:17:35] Oh my gosh.

[00:17:35] And like, you know, she'd be really salty about that.

[00:17:38] So also like, it's not technically sleepwalking and eating.

[00:17:42] Like she just had a craving and she would just go and eat.

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:45] Which is a night binger.

[00:17:46] Yeah.

[00:17:46] Yeah.

[00:17:47] Which is like, that's how I get your own food.

[00:17:49] Like, but this, like she would, so she was doing that.

[00:17:52] So yeah, it's, it's past the statute of limitations.

[00:17:55] She, I, I made brownies and I made sure like, you know, us and you know, like there, there

[00:18:01] were four separate rooms that were joined by a living area and stuff like that.

[00:18:05] So I made sure the other two roommates and myself had, had brownies.

[00:18:09] And then I put soap, dish soap over the rest of it and then put it into the fridge.

[00:18:17] She stopped eating my food after that.

[00:18:21] She's like, she's like, it tastes really funny.

[00:18:25] Like, and I was like, weird.

[00:18:27] No, they're not for you.

[00:18:28] Yeah.

[00:18:29] I had a coworker do that with her breast milk instead of coffee creamer at the DA's office.

[00:18:35] Cause someone kept using up all her coffee creamer.

[00:18:37] And so she put her breast milk in it and made an announcement in front of the whole office

[00:18:43] later on.

[00:18:44] And you can tell who it was immediately.

[00:18:46] Cause it was one of our younger prosecutors that just turned like white as a sheet.

[00:18:51] I was just like, perfect.

[00:18:53] Did she tell him that she's been doing that this past week?

[00:18:59] She was just like, you know, I've been using my, you know, my coffee creamer.

[00:19:03] I didn't have a bottle with me.

[00:19:05] So I was storing my breast milk in it, but it's gone.

[00:19:08] Does anybody know what happened?

[00:19:09] And he just was like, I love it.

[00:19:12] So mean and awesome.

[00:19:14] I love it.

[00:19:15] It was a great day.

[00:19:16] Yes.

[00:19:16] I had a roommate that labeled all her food and, and it was like Sharpie marker.

[00:19:23] And she didn't just put like her first name or her initials.

[00:19:27] She put her full name on everything.

[00:19:31] So it would be like, like she'd have a bunch of bananas and her full name would be on every

[00:19:36] banana in like big bold letters.

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:39] And I remember, so I'll never forget it apparently.

[00:19:43] Cause it's been a really long time.

[00:19:44] There was, um, there were bagels in the fridge and there was a note on the, on the outside of

[00:19:50] the, it was like one of those Ziploc bags that has an area you can write on.

[00:19:53] And it said, these are mine, my yummy bagels.

[00:19:57] They're for me, not for you.

[00:19:59] Don't touch.

[00:20:00] And then her full name.

[00:20:02] I like how formal she was with you guys.

[00:20:05] She was like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:20:07] It's not Jane Doe.

[00:20:08] It's Janet Doe.

[00:20:10] Like, like.

[00:20:11] Janet R Doe.

[00:20:12] Yeah.

[00:20:12] It was, it was insane.

[00:20:15] So fast forward, living with her, the one great thing about living with her, it was

[00:20:18] a house of six people is that all the things that the rest of us might've had problems with

[00:20:23] each other about sort of withered away in the face of like a common enemy.

[00:20:29] Yeah.

[00:20:29] And, uh, that was, that was helpful.

[00:20:33] Um, when I moved out of that apartment, I moved with one other woman from that apartment

[00:20:36] to another apartment.

[00:20:38] And, uh, when we were unpacking at the new apartment, I was pulling out my, the kitchen

[00:20:42] stuff.

[00:20:43] And instead of packing my cookie sheets, some, my roommate and her friend were packing the

[00:20:48] kitchen.

[00:20:48] And they had packed this woman's cookie sheets that had her name in Sharpie marker on them.

[00:20:54] Um, and I was like, Oh no.

[00:20:58] What do I do?

[00:21:00] I have, I have her cookie sheets.

[00:21:02] She's gonna kill me.

[00:21:03] Like.

[00:21:03] She is, she is, she is hunting you down to this day, Penny.

[00:21:08] Yeah.

[00:21:08] She's like, where is she?

[00:21:10] Those were my cookie sheets.

[00:21:12] She's like Aria Stark.

[00:21:14] Like she just has a list of people who stole her thing.

[00:21:16] She's like, I full name it.

[00:21:17] I'm on that list.

[00:21:18] Yeah.

[00:21:19] So funny.

[00:21:20] Um.

[00:21:21] That is terrifying.

[00:21:22] I would be scared.

[00:21:23] Yeah.

[00:21:24] I, uh, she was, she was a really, um, intense person.

[00:21:29] She, um, she used to do this thing where she would slap one hand into the other hand.

[00:21:35] Like, come on people.

[00:21:37] Like as if we were like children on her soccer team.

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:43] Oh yeah.

[00:21:44] Top hand down into the bottom.

[00:21:45] No, thank you.

[00:21:46] It would often be about like splitting up chores, but like she would often like assign

[00:21:53] chores to people without assigning any to herself.

[00:21:55] Like she thought she was like the house boss or something.

[00:21:58] And she was a buffy.

[00:21:59] No.

[00:22:00] Yeah.

[00:22:01] Oh, she was annoying.

[00:22:03] She was annoying.

[00:22:05] Oh, I've had, I've had so many weird roommate problems.

[00:22:08] I also had the horns in on your social life, attaches herself to you, comes with you places.

[00:22:13] Oh, that's so difficult.

[00:22:15] And, um, and she was a really annoying person.

[00:22:19] And, um, and she thought my friends were cool and they were.

[00:22:24] And so she would just, every time I'd be going like that was during a phase when I went dancing

[00:22:28] a lot and she'd be like, Oh, you're going dancing.

[00:22:30] I'll come too.

[00:22:31] And I'd be like, I, I don't have the social skills to tell you not to come.

[00:22:34] I don't know how to do that.

[00:22:36] Oh, oh.

[00:22:36] Because we live together.

[00:22:38] So, yeah.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:39] And, um, she ended up dating a friend of mine and it was so funny when they like met and

[00:22:45] hooked up.

[00:22:45] I told him, I was like, she's a nightmare to live with.

[00:22:48] I, I don't, I mean, you know, good luck, dude.

[00:22:51] I was like three weeks from moving out at that point.

[00:22:53] And I was like, uh, he's like, I really, really like her.

[00:22:57] What's so bad about her?

[00:22:58] I'm like, I dude, if you really like her date her, but like, I don't like her.

[00:23:02] That's all I can tell you.

[00:23:03] Yeah.

[00:23:03] And then like two years later or something, I was hanging out at his house.

[00:23:07] I remember it was like Christmas and I was hanging out at his house and I met his other

[00:23:11] roommates and they were like, Oh, you lived with the hell bitch.

[00:23:17] And I was like, yeah.

[00:23:19] And then they had all these stories about how much they hated her.

[00:23:22] And I was like, I was like, you know, I, it's not lightly that I tell someone that someone

[00:23:27] they want to date is a nightmare.

[00:23:29] Like I meant it.

[00:23:31] That is hilarious.

[00:23:33] It was really funny.

[00:23:34] I like how you were like the, like, like in the movie, the ring, like you get a warning

[00:23:39] and then seven days later it was like, no, she's a little tough dude.

[00:23:44] I'm moving out in two weeks.

[00:23:45] And then like two years later, they're like, you were right.

[00:23:49] Yeah.

[00:23:50] She was, I'm happy to say that that friend is now married to a lovely woman.

[00:23:56] They have an adorable 11 year old and things seem to be going great for them.

[00:24:01] So it worked out in the long run.

[00:24:04] You learned that roommate was a nightmare.

[00:24:05] She didn't have a driver's license until she was 23 because you know, she had a boyfriend

[00:24:11] and he could drive her anywhere she needed to go.

[00:24:14] Okay.

[00:24:15] That I am not that person.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:18] And I'm like, what if you want to go somewhere and he's not available?

[00:24:22] She's like that.

[00:24:23] Why would I want to go somewhere when he wasn't available?

[00:24:25] And I was like, this is so yeah, I've heard of people not getting driver's license

[00:24:30] because they live in like New York City and there's no, she lives on the Cape.

[00:24:33] There's no public transit on the Cape.

[00:24:37] Just her riding a whale.

[00:24:39] You know, I have to tell you when you say the Cape me as a native Texan, I just imagine

[00:24:46] this like beautiful magical place with like seashores and quiet and like all this stuff.

[00:24:54] And I have no idea if that's accurate now that I'm thinking about it.

[00:24:57] That is accurate.

[00:24:57] But the Cape is also hillbillies, strip malls, mini golf courses, gas stations, overpriced

[00:25:06] gross motels.

[00:25:07] It's both of those things.

[00:25:08] This is why I need to travel more places because it's easy to romanticize places that you've

[00:25:13] never been as just being like, you know, just like perfect.

[00:25:19] Perfect.

[00:25:20] Although when I picture Maine in my head for the most part.

[00:25:24] Oh, now it's a tangent.

[00:25:26] I just want to go to Maine.

[00:25:28] Maine is nice.

[00:25:29] Yeah.

[00:25:29] I'll go to Maine with you.

[00:25:30] I love Maine.

[00:25:31] Just not central inside.

[00:25:34] Yeah.

[00:25:34] You want to stay on the coast.

[00:25:36] Coastal Maine.

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] Nothing against main stairs.

[00:25:40] It's I want to see a lighthouse.

[00:25:42] Middle of the main is not really.

[00:25:43] Oh, I'm surprised we didn't do that with you when you visited last year.

[00:25:47] We will.

[00:25:47] Yeah.

[00:25:48] Next time you visit.

[00:25:49] I will 100% get you to a lighthouse.

[00:25:51] I may have already booked a flight in a random weekend in September just so I could lock

[00:25:56] in the price.

[00:25:57] Let me know.

[00:26:00] Awesome.

[00:26:00] I'm excited.

[00:26:01] Go to the strip.

[00:26:02] Woo, woo, woo.

[00:26:03] All right.

[00:26:06] We did it together.

[00:26:08] Yeah.

[00:26:09] So, um, so Buffy and Kathy, not a match made in heaven, just sort of from a vibes perspective.

[00:26:15] But I agree that like, with the exception of the demon stuff.

[00:26:19] Yes.

[00:26:20] Kathy is just merely dorky and annoying.

[00:26:24] And also it's like what the second week of college.

[00:26:26] Like, also Buffy, why are you wearing a coat and a hoodie at night in Southern California in September?

[00:26:32] But anyway.

[00:26:32] I'm so sick of that too.

[00:26:34] I'm like, snazzy outfit, but not necessary.

[00:26:36] Like Kathy shows up at college as like one version of themselves and guaranteed two months

[00:26:44] later, like some stuff is gone.

[00:26:46] Some new stuff has been added.

[00:26:48] Like that Cher thing wasn't going to last.

[00:26:51] Like eventually someone would have convinced Kathy that Cher was not cool and she would

[00:26:56] have moved on.

[00:26:57] And maybe it was her coping mechanism.

[00:27:00] Like her, like, I don't know.

[00:27:02] Like when, when, so we'd started and yes, it was playing a lot, even in the episode.

[00:27:07] I get it.

[00:27:07] I also am a Cher fan though.

[00:27:09] So like that kind of endeared me to Kathy a little bit.

[00:27:12] I did see Cher in concert.

[00:27:14] Highly recommend.

[00:27:15] She likes the divas.

[00:27:15] If she ever, yeah.

[00:27:17] Cher is a goddess.

[00:27:18] Exactly.

[00:27:20] So, you know.

[00:27:20] Exactly.

[00:27:20] Hilarious.

[00:27:21] The problem is over and over and over again.

[00:27:23] Yeah.

[00:27:23] And that particular song.

[00:27:26] Yeah.

[00:27:27] Well, and it's funny you say it's just a neurodivergent demon.

[00:27:31] I think, yeah.

[00:27:32] Also that.

[00:27:32] I really.

[00:27:33] Neurodivergent demon.

[00:27:35] Like, you know.

[00:27:35] Who else would measure their pencils to make sure they're the same length?

[00:27:39] Exactly.

[00:27:39] That is such neurodivergent behavior.

[00:27:42] Yeah.

[00:27:42] And Buffy was like using that as an example of why she's terrible.

[00:27:46] I'm like, Buffy, why do you care?

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] Like it was, but yeah, like I even have it written down.

[00:27:51] Like my first thing is no shading share Buffy, no matter how many times it's played.

[00:27:57] Yeah.

[00:27:58] And like maybe even listen to the lyrics, Miss Romantic Disaster.

[00:28:01] Do you believe in life after love?

[00:28:05] Oh yeah.

[00:28:06] Oh yeah.

[00:28:06] I know.

[00:28:07] I mean, maybe listen a little bit more and judge a little bit less.

[00:28:10] Buffster.

[00:28:10] Just saying.

[00:28:12] But you know, it's yeah.

[00:28:13] I ironing your jeans.

[00:28:15] I mean, like, I mean, Giles said it.

[00:28:17] It's fussy, but whatever.

[00:28:19] I don't know.

[00:28:44] Yeah.

[00:28:44] I mean, I think that's a lot of gene judgment, especially in the 90s.

[00:28:47] Isn't that cool?

[00:28:47] So speaking of which, Giles does bring up during that conversation with Buffy that she's an

[00:28:51] only child and no shade to only children.

[00:28:54] I know none of us on this podcast are, but you know, no shade to only children.

[00:28:58] Um, it, I, I think we've talked about it before.

[00:29:03] It is a little odd that all the Sunnydale, like main peeps are only children.

[00:29:09] Yeah.

[00:29:10] Buffy, Willow, Xander, Oz, Cordelia.

[00:29:13] Doesn't Xander have a sister that is referenced at some point and then just disappears?

[00:29:19] I feel like one of them does.

[00:29:23] Not that I remember.

[00:29:25] Technically, but we're not in that season yet.

[00:29:28] Oh, well, there's that.

[00:29:29] But, um, but yeah, they are only children.

[00:29:33] It's like simplified storytelling.

[00:29:34] Like siblings would get in the way, I guess.

[00:29:38] But, uh, I've always, as a, as one of many children, whenever characters on TV are only

[00:29:44] children, there's always a part of me that's like, must be nice.

[00:29:48] Like, I'm just, I'm like jealous.

[00:29:50] And also like, you, you don't even know what it's like.

[00:29:54] Like, I don't know.

[00:29:56] I have a hard time sometimes relating to only children.

[00:30:01] Like when I've dated someone who was an only child, it's, it's like they, the way they

[00:30:06] approach the world is different.

[00:30:07] It's so funny.

[00:30:08] And they don't understand the relationships I have with my siblings.

[00:30:12] Like they're usually confused by the fact that I, you know, talk to my siblings a lot and reference

[00:30:17] them in stories and that they're a part of my life.

[00:30:19] They're usually like, whoa, your brother, huh?

[00:30:22] Wait, you have more than one?

[00:30:23] And I'm like, yeah.

[00:30:24] Yeah.

[00:30:25] It's like, that's how siblings work.

[00:30:28] There's a whole herd of them.

[00:30:29] I mean, like from a developmental standpoint, siblings are like how we learn how to socialize

[00:30:36] with peers.

[00:30:38] And like to have those arguments, like, yes, you have them with your parents and stuff and

[00:30:42] teachers.

[00:30:42] It's just a different peer dynamic, even if there's a lot of years in between you.

[00:30:46] So, and like the early childhood, like the first five years are so important for how

[00:30:52] you develop this and the first 10 years.

[00:30:54] So like, I feel like if you're an only child and you're socialized really young, like in

[00:31:00] daycare and you have a like play groups as much as those get mocked, I feel like you learn

[00:31:06] to negotiate what we're seeing Buffy struggle with sharing space.

[00:31:12] So Buffy's only child, like characteristics are so full on display in this episode.

[00:31:20] Like I kept getting really frustrated.

[00:31:22] I was like, she's acting entitled.

[00:31:24] Like she's being super self-centered.

[00:31:27] Cause Willow, like she's venting to Willow on the phone and she's like, you can't believe

[00:31:31] what I, like the things I have to deal with.

[00:31:33] But meanwhile, Willow is also dealing with a terrible roommate, throwing a party and we

[00:31:39] never see Buffy say, well, how's your roommate situation going?

[00:31:42] Will.

[00:31:43] Yeah.

[00:31:43] Not once.

[00:31:44] Even when she can hear the music coming out.

[00:31:49] And Willow drops it.

[00:31:50] Right?

[00:31:50] Willow goes, my roommate's a challenge.

[00:31:52] And Buffy just like skims right past it.

[00:31:55] She definitely has a little of, you know, main character syndrome.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:00] She is the main character.

[00:32:02] I get it.

[00:32:03] But she, you know.

[00:32:05] It revolves around me kind of thing.

[00:32:09] Kathy told some truth there.

[00:32:10] Like maybe the world revolved around you where you came from.

[00:32:13] Share time.

[00:32:14] And I mean, the way she delivered it was hilarious, but it was also true.

[00:32:18] Yeah.

[00:32:20] Like, it's just not the best side of Buffy.

[00:32:23] And I think because we've seen so many like bad guys and she saves people.

[00:32:28] Right?

[00:32:28] Yeah.

[00:32:29] I think we sort of see the human stuff that she struggles with, the very human stuff that

[00:32:34] she struggles with.

[00:32:35] And she's being a spoiled brat.

[00:32:37] Like she's very self-centered, which is not all only children.

[00:32:40] Yeah.

[00:32:41] It's just sort of seeing how she's not used to checking in.

[00:32:44] Like, you know, we talked about Willow who's having actual roomie issues and she doesn't

[00:32:48] even ask Willow, doesn't check in or Giles.

[00:32:51] Giles.

[00:32:52] She's like, you run Giles?

[00:32:53] I'm like, yeah.

[00:32:53] How much do you know about Giles?

[00:32:55] Exactly.

[00:32:55] Because like, we don't know a lot about him.

[00:32:58] So I'm guessing this is where it comes from.

[00:33:01] Well, and it's so, it's, I did find it odd.

[00:33:03] And you know how Willow says that Buffy is kind of acting out of character and she and

[00:33:08] Giles have, when they first have that conversation at that point, I was like, I mean, she's not

[00:33:13] really, she's not doing anything crazy.

[00:33:16] She seems slightly groovy.

[00:33:18] It wasn't until later.

[00:33:19] Like once the toenails and the killing are mentioned.

[00:33:24] Yeah.

[00:33:25] Okay.

[00:33:25] Now you can worry.

[00:33:27] Like now this is a little out of hand, but the way that they treat her and talk about

[00:33:32] her in this episode, I still don't really get what was setting them off.

[00:33:38] She didn't seem extreme enough at that point that if I had been there, I would have been

[00:33:42] like, what's with Buffy?

[00:33:43] I would have said something like, wow, Buffy's really not getting along with her roommate.

[00:33:47] Right.

[00:33:48] And I, I mean, I guess the fact that what the fact that she's a slayer and has slayer strength

[00:33:55] and all that stuff, like she needs to, you know, make sure that she keeps her temper in

[00:34:00] check and keeps her identity in check.

[00:34:02] Like Kathy finding her weapons, I thought was going to be a way bigger issue.

[00:34:05] I remember.

[00:34:06] That was so funny.

[00:34:07] She was like, Oh no.

[00:34:09] Like, what is she going to think?

[00:34:11] But she's like, shrug.

[00:34:13] And I'm like, yeah.

[00:34:14] Who is this person?

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:16] Weapons are a big deal.

[00:34:18] And of course we find out later that she's not human.

[00:34:21] So she doesn't know that most people don't have weapons.

[00:34:23] Like disturbing.

[00:34:24] Yeah.

[00:34:25] Yeah.

[00:34:26] She was like, Oh, well, I'm like, Kathy's a cool chick.

[00:34:29] Um, so yeah, it was, it was a lot of it.

[00:34:32] Like even when Buffy told her she was going to go out to get some ice cream and she was

[00:34:36] patrolling or as a yogurt or something.

[00:34:38] And Kathy joins her.

[00:34:39] She's like, Oh, oh, coffee.

[00:34:41] She's like, I'm like, yeah.

[00:34:43] Buffy.

[00:34:46] She don't know you're patrolling buff.

[00:34:49] Like normal behavior.

[00:34:51] She's just trying to be your friend.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:53] And she's like, I want a coffee too.

[00:34:55] Like, I mean, it's not like, and she's like, and she was saying like, I want to make sure

[00:34:58] that you're okay.

[00:34:59] I'm like, that's sweet.

[00:35:00] And Buffy's like, I roll.

[00:35:01] And I'm like, Buffy, go sit in the corner.

[00:35:03] Cause now you're, you are, you are like, like you are our woman.

[00:35:06] You are our buffster.

[00:35:08] And I'm getting, I got so annoyed with Buffy for like 95% of this episode.

[00:35:13] I love you.

[00:35:14] And so I'm going to be straight with you.

[00:35:16] You're wrong.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:18] Exactly.

[00:35:19] You know that meme that is like, when you get to a point like where you dislike a person

[00:35:24] so much that any little thing they do sets you off.

[00:35:27] Like look at that bitch over there eating those crackers.

[00:35:30] Like she owns the place.

[00:35:31] Like that type of thing is where Buffy is at.

[00:35:35] She's, she's there.

[00:35:36] Very quickly.

[00:35:36] She's there so fast.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:38] But like the sweater with her getting ketchup on it.

[00:35:42] That would piss me off.

[00:35:43] That, that, that was fair.

[00:35:45] Yeah.

[00:35:45] And Kathy also thinks that Buffy just threw her.

[00:35:50] Like, I mean, Buffy maybe you want to share.

[00:35:53] I was trying to steal my artifact.

[00:35:54] Yeah.

[00:35:55] It's like, I mean, Buffy, your whole high school knows about you.

[00:35:57] I mean, if we know anything about high schoolers, they're not good at keeping a secret.

[00:36:01] You can let your roommate know whether she chooses to believe you.

[00:36:04] I mean, that's kind of up to her.

[00:36:05] Where does Kathy say she's from?

[00:36:06] Nebraska.

[00:36:08] And then I love that Xander says big sky country and I'm like, Montana.

[00:36:12] Right.

[00:36:13] But, um.

[00:36:13] Xander.

[00:36:14] I have it.

[00:36:15] I have that.

[00:36:17] I was like, you Xander.

[00:36:18] I was like, you Xander.

[00:36:19] Don't be weird.

[00:36:20] Like, I just, I can't stand him.

[00:36:23] He's just trying.

[00:36:24] I mean.

[00:36:24] Poor guy.

[00:36:25] Is he there?

[00:36:26] He's a little lost after high school graduation.

[00:36:27] Because his parents won't feed him for free.

[00:36:29] That's true.

[00:36:30] Oh my.

[00:36:32] He's so anxious.

[00:36:33] I do feel bad for him.

[00:36:34] Like in the last episode and in this episode, Xander is so anxious to like, get the Scoobies together

[00:36:40] and like, let's do something.

[00:36:41] Because he doesn't have anything going on in his life yet.

[00:36:44] Because he can't make any other friends.

[00:36:47] Oh yeah.

[00:36:48] With that personality.

[00:36:51] He's, yeah.

[00:36:52] Yeah.

[00:36:52] Um.

[00:36:54] He's Xander.

[00:36:55] He's, you know, he's Xander.

[00:36:56] Having a hard time ingesting.

[00:36:58] But, uh, I think, um, I think that the funniest moment came for me when, um, I'm

[00:37:10] like, when they have the share time conversation and then Buffy grabs the milk and like guzzles

[00:37:17] the milk and like spills it all over herself and the floor in dramatic fashion.

[00:37:22] I was like, so gross.

[00:37:25] Who does that?

[00:37:27] I've never seen anyone drink milk at someone before.

[00:37:30] Like.

[00:37:31] I know.

[00:37:32] All I could think about watching that scene was how many takes that took and how many

[00:37:37] times Sarah Michelle Keller had to like pretend to chug milk or actually chug it.

[00:37:43] I mean, she chugged it with that slayer aggression.

[00:37:47] It was amazing.

[00:37:48] Like I am chugging it at a demon.

[00:37:51] Like she, she all ends with her slayerness.

[00:37:54] She's like, I will eat a jug milk like this.

[00:37:57] A little bit of a Buffy apologist.

[00:38:01] It's possible that her slayer instincts alerted her on some level that Kathy was evil.

[00:38:09] And so she was predisposed to dislike her and therefore get super annoyed by her.

[00:38:15] Like Ted.

[00:38:16] That's a good point.

[00:38:16] Yes.

[00:38:17] She hated Ted on site.

[00:38:18] She knew.

[00:38:20] And it's, I get them being hesitant.

[00:38:22] Cause like the whole thing they thought she killed a man and you know, turned out to

[00:38:25] not be true, but it's kind of like, you know what guys, Buffy's usually right.

[00:38:32] Yeah.

[00:38:32] And she was right.

[00:38:34] Yeah.

[00:38:35] She, she was, she, I love when she rips the face off and she just goes, I knew it.

[00:38:40] Yes.

[00:38:42] Which is, which is to Penny's boy.

[00:38:45] Right.

[00:38:45] Like I knew something was wrong.

[00:38:46] Yeah.

[00:38:47] And it's like, it would make, it makes sense if she like slayed her, but she was like,

[00:38:52] no, I'm just going to Cordelia her.

[00:38:56] But like that, that, that makes sense that she was like, she knew something was up.

[00:39:00] It was so funny.

[00:39:01] Like I have, I'm like Buffy, the phone system is actually a good idea.

[00:39:05] Stop it.

[00:39:05] Like you, you need a phone system and like, oh, I'm sorry.

[00:39:09] Eating your roommate's food.

[00:39:10] Even though that milk scene was iconic.

[00:39:12] I'm like, nope, Buffy.

[00:39:13] You're just checking all the negatives.

[00:39:15] Especially without asking.

[00:39:17] Oh, no, no.

[00:39:18] She was doing it on purpose to me.

[00:39:20] Cause she didn't like.

[00:39:21] Well, before that she had eaten.

[00:39:23] She had eaten.

[00:39:24] She had had the milk like off screen before the episode even started.

[00:39:28] Yeah.

[00:39:29] She had already taken milk for her coffee and.

[00:39:32] Buffy.

[00:39:33] And I think lots of people do that.

[00:39:35] That's like a widespread phenomenon is like you're making coffee and you're like, oh no,

[00:39:39] I just need a little bit.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:41] It's not that big of a deal.

[00:39:42] Until it's like every day.

[00:39:44] And then all of a sudden coffee creamer's gone.

[00:39:46] Yeah.

[00:39:46] I was like, we're.

[00:39:48] So.

[00:39:48] Or your pickles, Tommy.

[00:39:50] If you're listening to this.

[00:39:51] The appropriate thing to do is either ask.

[00:39:53] My pickles will work.

[00:39:54] Oh.

[00:39:56] Yeah.

[00:39:56] You either ask or you immediately say, hey, I took a little bit of your milk this morning.

[00:40:00] I'll replace it.

[00:40:01] I'm so sorry.

[00:40:02] Right?

[00:40:02] Absolutely.

[00:40:03] Or say, I'm going to, I'll buy the coffee creamer next time or something.

[00:40:07] There you go.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:07] Why don't we split this since we both use it and it gets, you know, that's, that's

[00:40:12] the easiest, easiest way to do it.

[00:40:15] But Buffy, it never occurred to her.

[00:40:17] And it is a pretty realistic depiction of adjusting to life.

[00:40:22] Yeah.

[00:40:23] You know, living with a roommate, which is kind of difficult to do, especially I would

[00:40:27] assume if you never had a sibling, like you never had to share space with someone else

[00:40:33] in that way.

[00:40:34] Exactly.

[00:40:35] Buffy had a hard time.

[00:40:37] She really did.

[00:40:38] Yeah.

[00:40:39] We'll see with Willow, like she's still a terrible roommate.

[00:40:42] Yeah.

[00:40:43] Like, like, she's still like, I mean, like, she's still a terrible roommate.

[00:40:47] And I kind of think like, I can only speak for myself.

[00:40:51] Don't we all kind, don't we all kind of wish that our bad roommates turned out to be

[00:40:56] demons?

[00:40:57] Yeah.

[00:40:57] It was, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:00] And it would so justify it, right?

[00:41:02] Like, that's why I didn't like them.

[00:41:04] But it's true.

[00:41:06] Well, I recognize my freshman year of college that I don't think I was, it wasn't a bad

[00:41:12] roommate situation, but I was probably the annoying roommate.

[00:41:16] Because it's when I think a lot of my neurodivergent traits started to really become glaring.

[00:41:23] And I would, you know, I had a cough for most of the first semester and my poor roommate

[00:41:28] couldn't sleep.

[00:41:29] And like, I wanted to watch baseball and I would watch it on mute, but then I'd be like

[00:41:34] cheering and yelling at the TV.

[00:41:35] Like I was the annoying roommate for the most part in that situation.

[00:41:40] It's good you can recognize that about yourself.

[00:41:41] Yeah.

[00:41:42] We lived together again the second year, so it couldn't have been that bad.

[00:41:45] But I was like, no, she put up with me more so than I put up with her.

[00:41:50] Yeah.

[00:41:51] It's so funny, Kara.

[00:41:53] You're like, as someone with like emotional intelligence and insight, you're like, oh,

[00:41:58] so my neurodivergent cues came out and you're listing them off.

[00:42:01] I'm like, that's like half the men I've dated.

[00:42:03] Yeah.

[00:42:05] Like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, I'm like, like, like, like, like,

[00:42:13] I would say one thing she did do, she had a, it was, she had a long distance boyfriend

[00:42:20] at the time.

[00:42:21] And they would like, I chat, I video chat with each other to fall asleep.

[00:42:28] Yeah.

[00:42:29] But her nightstand faced both of our beds.

[00:42:33] So I would be like laying there and I'd turn over and I would see.

[00:42:36] Kind of on camera.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:38] I had that too.

[00:42:40] First guys.

[00:42:41] That seems like a freshman problem.

[00:42:44] Like rearrange your setup.

[00:42:45] I walked out in a towel and then it stopped.

[00:42:48] Okay.

[00:42:50] That's smart.

[00:42:52] That is smart.

[00:42:53] I like it.

[00:42:54] Work smarter.

[00:42:55] Yeah.

[00:42:56] I like it.

[00:42:57] She didn't eat my food though.

[00:42:59] And I didn't eat hers.

[00:43:00] So we were good there.

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:02] Yes.

[00:43:02] God, I've had so many food stealing roommates.

[00:43:05] Oh, yeah.

[00:43:05] Speaking of.

[00:43:07] We meet Parker Abrams.

[00:43:10] So it's hard.

[00:43:11] Let's talk about that.

[00:43:12] Let's talk about him.

[00:43:13] Let's talk about him at the end.

[00:43:15] Oh, that's a good point.

[00:43:16] Yeah.

[00:43:17] At first, I will say my first impression watching this episode, obviously he's charming.

[00:43:22] And as an adult, I'm like, you're being suspicious.

[00:43:26] I know.

[00:43:27] But I'm jaded now.

[00:43:28] And then I thought it was very sweet that when he went to Buffy's room to like give his

[00:43:33] phone number, he engaged in conversation with Kathy and was, you know, being friendly

[00:43:39] and talking to her about the Red Wings and hockey.

[00:43:43] Yeah.

[00:43:43] Which.

[00:43:44] I thought it was cute that he brought Buffy's Ziploc bags.

[00:43:47] Yeah.

[00:43:48] It's something they talked about and it, it, it's a really nice touch.

[00:43:51] Hey, dudes out there.

[00:43:53] If any dudes listen to this show.

[00:43:54] Worked on me.

[00:43:55] Dating dudes.

[00:43:56] Like little tiny gestures like that are better than big grand gestures.

[00:44:00] Yeah.

[00:44:00] Don't use it to manipulate people.

[00:44:03] They're more meaningful.

[00:44:04] That just, it's, when people say it's the thought that counts, it means.

[00:44:08] It really is.

[00:44:09] The evidence that you were thinking about me in a meaningful way.

[00:44:13] Not, you remembered present happens.

[00:44:16] Like that's not enough thought.

[00:44:17] It has to be something like that was personal.

[00:44:19] They had a conversation about it.

[00:44:21] It was a joke.

[00:44:22] Like it was a perfect gesture.

[00:44:24] Yeah.

[00:44:24] And it's not like expensive or any pressure.

[00:44:27] It's not like she was like, oh, wear it right now.

[00:44:29] Like it wasn't anything.

[00:44:30] It was a perfect gesture.

[00:44:31] I would have fallen for Parker.

[00:44:34] Oh, 100%.

[00:44:35] So hard.

[00:44:36] I would have fallen in bed with Parker.

[00:44:38] With the Ziploc bags.

[00:44:40] Yeah.

[00:44:41] He's so handsome.

[00:44:43] And sloppy.

[00:44:45] Yeah.

[00:44:45] Emotional intelligence.

[00:44:46] He's got like a good vocabulary.

[00:44:48] He's articulate.

[00:44:49] Like he's funny.

[00:44:50] I would have been all over Parker.

[00:44:52] All over it.

[00:44:53] Yeah.

[00:44:54] And guys that are.

[00:44:55] Hell, I have been all over Parker and I got hurt.

[00:44:58] Yeah.

[00:44:58] I know.

[00:44:59] That's the problem.

[00:45:01] They use their powers for evil.

[00:45:03] But yeah, like guys who are listening, if there, if there are guys that, that date women,

[00:45:09] do acts for them that their friends do for them.

[00:45:14] So it's like when they share like, this was so thoughtful that my friend did this.

[00:45:18] Do that.

[00:45:19] Cause that is what we're talking about.

[00:45:22] Cause you're like, oh, we're sand.

[00:45:23] That's okay.

[00:45:23] I don't know why I said that.

[00:45:24] That's how I'm like, like just listen to what her friends do for her.

[00:45:29] There was this great video going around on Instagram of like three guys shopping for Christmas

[00:45:36] presents for their girlfriends.

[00:45:37] And they were like in a store and they're looking at like, say it's a perfume counter.

[00:45:44] And they're like, my girlfriend loves this perfume.

[00:45:47] And she said that she's running low.

[00:45:49] This would be a great Christmas present.

[00:45:51] I'll buy her this other thing.

[00:45:52] Oh my God.

[00:45:53] And they do it over and over and over again.

[00:45:55] And it's so funny.

[00:45:56] Cause it's so true that like, you can drop the biggest hints in the world.

[00:46:02] And somehow the guy will be like, well, I remember that you like things that are blue.

[00:46:08] So I got you a blue vacuum cleaner and you're like, what?

[00:46:13] I like blues music.

[00:46:14] Why are you listening?

[00:46:15] Like that's not what I said.

[00:46:18] And, and, and you picked out something to clean the home with.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:23] Or like, I got you a thing that's really for me.

[00:46:26] Like here's the DVD set of like the classic hockey games of the nineties.

[00:46:32] Like that's not for me.

[00:46:34] Do you guys, do you guys remember the Peloton commercial, which was totally, and I'm going

[00:46:39] to call out guys.

[00:46:41] Yeah.

[00:46:41] I'm totally going to call out men.

[00:46:42] I'm sorry y'all, but like definitely your fellow men were in charge of this because

[00:46:47] there's the Peloton ad where the, where the husband got the wife a Peloton for Christmas

[00:46:53] holidays.

[00:46:55] And she was so excited.

[00:46:56] And the controversy was like, if she didn't ask for it, don't give her an exercise machine.

[00:47:02] That's like, you need to lose weight.

[00:47:04] Yeah.

[00:47:05] You need to look better.

[00:47:07] No.

[00:47:08] And don't, don't.

[00:47:09] They had made it clear in the ad.

[00:47:11] It's totally different if you want it.

[00:47:12] I remember this ad so well that she was, if, if when he gave it to her, he was like,

[00:47:16] now you can even train for your races in bad weather.

[00:47:20] Perfect.

[00:47:20] Yeah.

[00:47:21] But that's not how that happened.

[00:47:22] All our answers and concerns would have gone away.

[00:47:24] Oh, she's an avid biker.

[00:47:26] She wanted this.

[00:47:27] Like, yeah, it's great.

[00:47:29] No.

[00:47:31] It was like.

[00:47:32] The vibe of the ad was also like, she didn't look like, oh my God, a Peloton.

[00:47:37] She was like, oh, I see you got me a Peloton.

[00:47:39] Like, yeah, she wasn't excited.

[00:47:41] That didn't help me either.

[00:47:43] So the audience all absorbed like, oh, he's telling her she needs to exercise more.

[00:47:48] And meanwhile, she was like, slender.

[00:47:51] Yeah.

[00:47:51] So it was like, it's one of those guys who's like, you have that one little tiny piece of

[00:47:56] fat there.

[00:47:57] So get on that bike girl.

[00:48:00] Like I, that's how it came across.

[00:48:02] And I know that's how they came, the company came out and defended themselves all over the

[00:48:05] place.

[00:48:06] Which was a bad idea.

[00:48:07] Yeah.

[00:48:07] That may not have been your intention, but that is the message you ended up sending.

[00:48:11] Like, yeah.

[00:48:12] Listen to the audience.

[00:48:14] How come I focus group this at all?

[00:48:15] Like, did you not show it to women?

[00:48:18] Like we're telling you what we heard and that's what we heard.

[00:48:21] Like, it doesn't really matter what you were trying to say.

[00:48:23] Your ad was offensive.

[00:48:25] Oh gosh.

[00:48:25] Yeah.

[00:48:26] And you can tell cause like, it was also a thing, a heterosexual couple.

[00:48:30] Like, you know, it's so it's like, and why did the woman have to get the Peloton?

[00:48:33] Why couldn't she have bought it for her husband?

[00:48:34] Like, it was just like all of this stuff.

[00:48:36] It was like, I remember when they doubled down on it and like, well, that's not the answer.

[00:48:39] You had a blind spot and you, it was projected to millions of people.

[00:48:44] Now you gotta say a millions of people apology.

[00:48:47] You're like, oops, my bad.

[00:48:48] People are very forgiving of an oops, my bad, but not of a double down.

[00:48:53] Double down makes people mad.

[00:48:55] My fashion does this a lot with extremely racist stuff that they put out that they continue

[00:49:00] to put out.

[00:49:01] And they're like, it's art.

[00:49:02] And you're like, it's really exploitative.

[00:49:05] Yeah.

[00:49:05] It's really racist.

[00:49:07] Like, um, I understand why you think it's art.

[00:49:10] Cause there are creative elements in there, but like, uh, and also racism.

[00:49:16] It can still be problematic.

[00:49:18] Even if it's art.

[00:49:20] I've seen a lot of problematic.

[00:49:21] Give you a pass.

[00:49:23] Which is my opportunity to plug in Boston.

[00:49:25] There is a museum of bad art in Dorchester and it's awesome.

[00:49:29] And everyone should go to it.

[00:49:31] That sounds fantastic.

[00:49:33] It's well, and what you think is going to be the bad art.

[00:49:35] It's worse.

[00:49:36] It's worse art than what you think it is.

[00:49:39] I mean, it had to be nominated and accepted in a clearly a sea full of a bad art.

[00:49:46] That is what did you guys think of?

[00:49:50] Of Kathy kind of getting flirtatious with Parker.

[00:49:56] Did you see it that?

[00:49:58] Cause I was just like, Buffy, calm down.

[00:50:01] I didn't read it as flirtatious.

[00:50:03] Really?

[00:50:03] Like seriously flirtatious.

[00:50:05] I didn't see her behavior as all that different from how she was with Willow, Oz and Xander.

[00:50:10] Yeah.

[00:50:10] Where she was just like, I want to meet people.

[00:50:12] Like she's bubbly.

[00:50:14] She wants to be friends with everybody.

[00:50:16] When she kind of smacked him.

[00:50:18] Like, yeah.

[00:50:18] It was like mildly flirtatious, but like, I mean, Buffy doesn't own him.

[00:50:23] Yeah.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:25] I feel like Buffy has some confidence issues and I can't decide sometimes if I feel like

[00:50:32] that makes her more human or if it's JW kind of trying to take her down a notch or something.

[00:50:40] You know what I mean?

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:41] Cause she's so pretty.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:44] Like she's stunning and gets a lot of male attention.

[00:50:47] She could read all their minds at one point.

[00:50:50] Yeah.

[00:50:50] Like, and she, you know, there's that one scene after she talks to Parker and she sits down with Willow and Oz and Xander and Xander and Oz both kind of tell her like, he'll be back.

[00:51:02] Like, don't worry.

[00:51:03] And she's like, you think so?

[00:51:05] Yeah.

[00:51:05] Like, really?

[00:51:06] I'm like, Buffy, believe in yourself.

[00:51:09] Like, come on.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:10] Yeah.

[00:51:11] Did you see your ex, Buffy?

[00:51:12] Iconic undead people love you.

[00:51:13] I know.

[00:51:15] Like, I'm like, did, you know, he may have been like, have the personality of a stick in the mud, but he was gorgeous, Buffy.

[00:51:22] Like.

[00:51:23] Yeah.

[00:51:23] And like, even your enemy Spike always calls you cutie.

[00:51:27] Oh yeah.

[00:51:29] Like, most of the men hit on you.

[00:51:31] Most of the men in their life hit on you.

[00:51:32] Like what?

[00:51:33] Shaker.

[00:51:34] And I can't tell if that's just me overthinking and overanalyzing like I sometimes do.

[00:51:39] I think that it's less so now, but not enough less so.

[00:51:43] Yeah.

[00:51:44] That American culture doesn't like a woman who's confident, right?

[00:51:50] Oh yeah.

[00:51:50] And Buffy is so confident in her slaying that in order to balance it, they have to give her

[00:51:56] some, some stuff.

[00:51:57] And the thing that they have to give her is that she's not super confident about her looks

[00:52:01] because they can't make her clumsy, which is the go-to.

[00:52:04] Yeah, that's true.

[00:52:06] Great point.

[00:52:06] She has to be more palatable somehow.

[00:52:09] Yep.

[00:52:10] And if she was like, I know I'm gorgeous and I'm a slayer, we'd all be like, she'd be

[00:52:16] Faith actually.

[00:52:18] You know?

[00:52:18] That's true.

[00:52:19] Faith definitely has.

[00:52:20] And they gave Faith trauma.

[00:52:21] So they were like, here you go.

[00:52:24] Which I get it.

[00:52:25] And home title.

[00:52:25] There are plenty of women in real life who are stunning that struggle with, you know,

[00:52:32] and everybody has insecurity issues sometimes or confidence issues.

[00:52:36] Of course.

[00:52:36] But it really bugs me for some reason, the way that it comes through with Buffy.

[00:52:43] And I don't know what it, I don't know what it is.

[00:52:45] I think we sort of nailed it because like, like what, what Penny was saying of confident

[00:52:50] women are disruptive to society.

[00:52:52] Like we, we don't, we don't know what to do with a confident woman.

[00:52:56] I mean, the, the clearest example I think is how JW treated Cordelia and the actress who

[00:53:01] played her.

[00:53:02] Yeah.

[00:53:02] I mean, Charisma Carpenter is gorgeous, talented, smart, and like he felt super threatened by

[00:53:09] her.

[00:53:10] So it's like, it's, I think it's both like, you know, like, you know, like, I'm

[00:53:15] like, I think, yeah, I don't know a single woman who isn't insecure about something or

[00:53:20] like have, have moments of insecurity about, about their body and their image.

[00:53:24] Cause we're taught to be.

[00:53:26] Yeah.

[00:53:26] And that we're.

[00:53:27] That's a whole other thing.

[00:53:28] Yeah.

[00:53:28] That's a whole other thing.

[00:53:29] But like, you know, we're taught to be, and we're, and we're taught that being confident

[00:53:34] is, um, you need to be humble because you don't want to brag where like, you know,

[00:53:39] it's, I just think it's confident women are disruptive to society.

[00:53:43] So a male writer and producer of the show is like, well, how do we make her relatable?

[00:53:48] Well, she's a teenager.

[00:53:50] Like she, like that's that she, they're going to have issues that are relatable, right?

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:54] Show has wonderful examples of this, but we need to take her down a peg cause she's

[00:53:58] gorgeous and talented and funny and smart.

[00:54:01] So we need to, we need to give her an Achilles heel for people to relate to.

[00:54:05] And it's like, what her humanness we relate to.

[00:54:07] They make her say some really dumb crap sometimes too.

[00:54:11] Yeah.

[00:54:12] It's like, come on.

[00:54:13] Come on.

[00:54:14] Yeah.

[00:54:14] Smart.

[00:54:15] But I just, I don't know, but the whole conversation with Parker and I get, she's in a new environment,

[00:54:23] but I'm just like, come, you know, you'll be fine.

[00:54:27] I promise.

[00:54:28] You'll be fine.

[00:54:28] But I did love Oz.

[00:54:31] Yeah.

[00:54:31] I did think that the conversation was cute.

[00:54:34] I liked that, that Xander called her the buffinator was funny.

[00:54:38] Yeah.

[00:54:39] And then Oz going, those.

[00:54:41] He'll be back.

[00:54:42] Oh, I think they, they were really good.

[00:54:51] One of my favorite parts of the episode is after, you know, Buffy and Kathy both have

[00:54:56] that creepy ass demon dream and they're sitting around in like the common area or

[00:55:02] whatever, talking and Giles is there.

[00:55:04] And I love that when Kathy comes up and Willow introduces Giles and says, he's our grownup

[00:55:11] friend.

[00:55:11] Not, not in a creepy way.

[00:55:15] Perfect.

[00:55:16] And then Buffy, like they're describing the same dream and Oz, you know, finishes her thought

[00:55:23] and Kathy was like, how did you know?

[00:55:25] And he goes without missing a beat.

[00:55:27] Well, I'm a good guesser.

[00:55:28] That killed me.

[00:55:30] I was like, this, this is the Oz humor that I love.

[00:55:33] It's so great.

[00:55:36] Yeah.

[00:55:37] He was great this whole episode when he was, when he went on patrol with Buffy and she took

[00:55:42] out the bench and he's like, well, you took out the bench.

[00:55:45] It was looking shifty.

[00:55:48] I love that so much.

[00:55:50] Nobody deserves mine, Buffy.

[00:55:52] I mean, like a great, one great line after another, just like, bam, bam, bam with Oz.

[00:55:58] So funny.

[00:55:59] So good.

[00:56:00] Like he, he was just so awesome.

[00:56:03] Like I have like another great quote.

[00:56:05] Um, I don't remember where they said this, but.

[00:56:08] Oh yeah.

[00:56:10] Oh my God.

[00:56:12] That girl in girl has been my username on dating websites for years.

[00:56:18] And I am still waiting for someone to be like, that's from Buffy.

[00:56:24] Like it hasn't happened yet.

[00:56:26] It's been years and years and years.

[00:56:27] I feel like, I feel like that would guarantee a date.

[00:56:30] Like if, if someone got it, it's like, well then you're a Buffy fan.

[00:56:33] So that's true.

[00:56:34] That should mean you're into female empowerment.

[00:56:37] It's one of my all time favorite Buffy quotes.

[00:56:39] So, you know, I have the clip.

[00:56:40] And what are we, if not women up to a challenge?

[00:56:43] Exactly.

[00:56:44] I mean, did we not put the girl in girl?

[00:56:47] Well, here's where I get off.

[00:56:50] I love.

[00:56:50] Say hey to Aspen.

[00:56:51] Happy hunting.

[00:56:52] Wish me monsters.

[00:56:53] I love that.

[00:56:55] That's so cute.

[00:56:56] I have that too.

[00:56:57] Wish me monsters.

[00:56:58] The way Buffy says it.

[00:57:00] This is so great.

[00:57:01] I'm going to say that the next time I go on a date.

[00:57:06] Wish me monsters.

[00:57:06] Wish me monsters.

[00:57:07] It's definitely more accurate at this point.

[00:57:10] It's just, I love Willow and Buffy's friendship.

[00:57:15] Even though, you know, it's kind of one sided sometimes.

[00:57:18] It really is.

[00:57:19] But, Willow is so kind and understanding with Buffy.

[00:57:25] And is so good at almost handling her with slayer gloves.

[00:57:30] Like she knows what Buffy needs in that moment.

[00:57:35] Like she's always the one that is good at reaching through to Buffy.

[00:57:40] And it's kind of, I feel like they should have let.

[00:57:43] Yeah.

[00:57:44] Their friendship is beautiful.

[00:57:45] Take the lead a little bit more in this episode.

[00:57:47] Because you know when she randomly first, hilarious how Oz and Xander tie Buffy up.

[00:57:52] And do a terrible job.

[00:57:55] Oh God, I love that scene.

[00:57:57] Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[00:57:58] I've got it.

[00:57:59] Buffy, this hurts me more than it hurts you.

[00:58:01] Not yet, but it will.

[00:58:02] Well, don't say that.

[00:58:04] Oh, please don't say that.

[00:58:06] So funny.

[00:58:06] And then when Xander's like, I don't think I tightened those ropes enough.

[00:58:09] I love that.

[00:58:09] And Oz is like, well, better go over there and check them.

[00:58:12] And Xander laughs nervously and he's just like, oh dear God.

[00:58:16] Like, I can't, like don't make me do it.

[00:58:21] He felt very, yeah.

[00:58:22] And then when Buffy just casually bogs their heads together and goes, not tight enough.

[00:58:27] It's so great.

[00:58:29] Like, I mean, I did kind of feel bad for Xander in those moments.

[00:58:34] I'm like, yeah, you're kind of like, you're walking into a trap.

[00:58:37] And then I've.

[00:58:38] Kathy though.

[00:58:39] And telling her, oh, we need you to come with us.

[00:58:41] No, actually stay here.

[00:58:42] Or.

[00:58:43] Or we need you to.

[00:58:45] It wasn't come with us.

[00:58:46] It was.

[00:58:46] You should not be at the room when Buffy gets back.

[00:58:48] Yes.

[00:58:49] Yeah.

[00:58:49] So to like, to get her out.

[00:58:52] And Kathy's right.

[00:58:53] Why should I have to leave the room?

[00:58:54] Yeah.

[00:58:55] Because no one's told her anything.

[00:58:58] Like, say something.

[00:58:59] Like, say something.

[00:59:00] Yeah.

[00:59:00] Like.

[00:59:00] She had some problems as a juvenile.

[00:59:04] She's got some anger issues.

[00:59:05] I don't know.

[00:59:05] Like, say something.

[00:59:08] I did think it was great that Buffy was like, I wouldn't put it past her to do something,

[00:59:12] you know?

[00:59:12] Like, hurt herself or something.

[00:59:14] And in retrospect, after watching the whole episode, of course, you're like, oh, she's setting

[00:59:17] it up because she's about to like, take Buffy's soul and have her get sucked

[00:59:20] into hell.

[00:59:21] Yeah.

[00:59:21] So she's like, gonna be like, see I told you something was wrong.

[00:59:24] Like that combo she has with Willow.

[00:59:28] I was just like, oh, you're going to her best friend and talking about it.

[00:59:33] I was like, that's kind of.

[00:59:36] She, she, she learned girl real quick.

[00:59:40] But I, I, I, one of my favorite quotes by, by Willow is when she's saying, when she's

[00:59:45] on the phone, she's like, I think she was on the phone to Giles.

[00:59:49] And she's like, I'm talking to Buffy.

[00:59:52] And she seemed crazy.

[00:59:53] Not bitchy crazy.

[00:59:54] Homicidal crazy.

[00:59:55] Stop sending her to you.

[00:59:57] Okay.

[00:59:57] I'm like, she's, it sounds like most of my therapy referrals.

[01:00:03] Also, it's not true.

[01:00:05] But like, but I'm like, Jesus.

[01:00:07] Yes.

[01:00:08] Like.

[01:00:10] Um, I want to take a minute to praise the toenail clipping scene.

[01:00:15] And the use of increasingly close close ups.

[01:00:20] And slow motion of the toenail clip, like, like flinging through the air, like spiraling

[01:00:26] through the air and, and Buffy's closer and closer on Buffy's eyes as she's losing it.

[01:00:31] I, I think that is just a beautiful scene that sets up the emotional state of Buffy so well.

[01:00:40] Like, and everybody can identify with that moment.

[01:00:43] Every one of us has been in a situation where someone is doing some kind of personal hygiene

[01:00:47] thing in an inappropriate place.

[01:00:49] And you're like, what am I being forced to watch?

[01:00:53] Unfortunately for me, I have seen toenail clipping happening on the New York City subway.

[01:00:59] The subway is a special place.

[01:01:00] Uh, and it, it was a woman clipping a man's toenails and he was protesting the whole time.

[01:01:07] It was deeply disturbing.

[01:01:12] I always wonder that.

[01:01:13] I was thinking a kink.

[01:01:14] Oh, in public.

[01:01:15] I always wonder that, but it didn't seem like that.

[01:01:16] We did not consent to your kinky sh-

[01:01:20] Yeah.

[01:01:21] Did he know her?

[01:01:22] They seemed like a couple.

[01:01:25] Like, I don't know.

[01:01:27] She's just cutting her toenails as some random dude.

[01:01:29] I mean, it's New York City subway.

[01:01:33] I mean, it's the general public.

[01:01:36] It was the weirdest, like, like, progression of sounds.

[01:01:40] It was like, you know, that clip sound, clip.

[01:01:42] Yeah.

[01:01:43] And then he would go, ow!

[01:01:44] And she'd go, shut up!

[01:01:46] And then clip.

[01:01:46] All right, guys.

[01:01:47] Ow!

[01:01:47] Shut up!

[01:01:48] Clip.

[01:01:49] Ow!

[01:01:49] It was so weird.

[01:01:51] I was so excited when I got to my stop.

[01:01:53] I was like, I've seen some weird stuff on the subway, but like-

[01:01:58] I don't understand.

[01:01:59] It is.

[01:01:59] It is.

[01:02:00] It's amazing too.

[01:02:02] It's like-

[01:02:02] New York City subway is-

[01:02:07] It smells so bad.

[01:02:08] It smells so bad.

[01:02:09] It smells so bad.

[01:02:10] Yes.

[01:02:10] And efficient, and also a disaster.

[01:02:14] Yeah.

[01:02:15] And a marble.

[01:02:16] All those things.

[01:02:17] And completely essential if you live in New York City.

[01:02:20] Yes.

[01:02:21] And I have seen, like, really disturbing things.

[01:02:25] I have seen really hilarious things.

[01:02:27] I have seen beautiful things.

[01:02:29] Mm-hmm.

[01:02:29] Like, the subway is-

[01:02:31] It's nice.

[01:02:32] It's a slice of life.

[01:02:34] But like-

[01:02:34] Yeah.

[01:02:35] It's a great equalizer in New York City too, because-

[01:02:38] Except for the uber, uber wealthy, everyone takes so much.

[01:02:41] It'd be so expensive otherwise.

[01:02:41] Oh yeah.

[01:02:42] You don't have a truck.

[01:02:43] Like trying to uber or take-

[01:02:45] Yeah.

[01:02:45] But it's funny-

[01:02:48] I wonder if, like, European trains have the same-

[01:02:50] Every train I was on-

[01:02:52] Like the London?

[01:02:53] Any-

[01:02:54] Whether it was primarily like local transportation, it was so nice and clean.

[01:03:01] Like people-

[01:03:03] It was wonderful.

[01:03:04] Europe is different.

[01:03:05] The train stations-

[01:03:06] People respect their trains.

[01:03:07] But the actual trains themselves, they were very pleasant.

[01:03:12] But it's-

[01:03:14] I will not say the same of trains in Morocco.

[01:03:18] That's good to know.

[01:03:18] Mm-hmm.

[01:03:19] Give them two out of five stars.

[01:03:22] Interesting.

[01:03:23] Mm-hmm.

[01:03:24] Two out of ten stars.

[01:03:25] Not good.

[01:03:27] So they got you from place to AB.

[01:03:30] Don't get on trains.

[01:03:31] Yeah.

[01:03:32] Yeah.

[01:03:33] Yeah, it seems like-

[01:03:33] They weren't as visibly filthy as some I've seen, but it is the only time that a small

[01:03:38] child has peed on me and my friend.

[01:03:40] Oh no.

[01:03:40] That sounds like New Orleans on Bourbon Street.

[01:03:43] Dear God.

[01:03:43] Minus it being a small child.

[01:03:46] But Bourbon Street gravy is not-

[01:03:49] I was like, did someone-

[01:03:50] Did someone pee on me on Bourbon Street?

[01:03:55] That happened.

[01:03:55] I mean, I saw people peeing on Bourbon Street, but they amped?

[01:04:00] Oh yeah.

[01:04:01] I've seen special things on Bourbon Street that we shouldn't talk about.

[01:04:06] Yeah, Bourbon Street.

[01:04:07] I have only been to New Orleans once and I was like, well, Bourbon Street's right there.

[01:04:13] I'll go look at it.

[01:04:15] And I walked one block of Bourbon Street and I was like, I'm good.

[01:04:18] I've seen it.

[01:04:19] And I spent the rest of that day on-

[01:04:22] Oh yeah.

[01:04:23] What is it?

[01:04:23] Royal Street?

[01:04:24] That's like parallel to it where all the like-

[01:04:26] That's French-

[01:04:27] That's French-

[01:04:27] I will say Bourbon Street when the Heiress tour was in town was so wholesome, it freaked

[01:04:34] me out.

[01:04:35] Like there are tons of-

[01:04:37] That's awesome.

[01:04:37] We've seen the 50s like singing in the middle of the street and everyone was super friendly

[01:04:42] and every bartender that I talked to was just like, I've never been tipped this much.

[01:04:48] People are so nice.

[01:04:49] And I was like, aww.

[01:04:51] It's like, yeah, Bourbon Street's kind of hellish sometimes.

[01:04:53] I'm glad that at least Taylor Swift fans did it.

[01:04:57] Yeah.

[01:04:57] I've-

[01:04:58] Bearable.

[01:04:59] I know.

[01:05:00] I feel like all the drunk people that were there were like, who are all these characters?

[01:05:04] We need to move out.

[01:05:06] Until they wave.

[01:05:07] Guys that were, you know, maybe bar regulars stumbling out and looking around being like,

[01:05:12] what the hell is going on?

[01:05:15] Like, why is there glitter everywhere?

[01:05:17] What in Disneyland is this?

[01:05:21] But I will say, Kenny, bringing up that toenail scene, it's one of the scenes that sticks out

[01:05:29] to me in all of Buffy just because of how well done it.

[01:05:33] And it's so comedic the way-

[01:05:35] And there are multiple scenes like that in this episode that are so brilliantly shot with, you know,

[01:05:41] the camera effects, the sound effects that usually are things you would see, you know, in horror movies.

[01:05:47] And the way that it's done here, like even the close up and slow motion of the ketchup dropping from the burger down onto Cappy's sweater.

[01:05:59] Yeah.

[01:06:00] This pastel sweater.

[01:06:01] It's just, it's so cheeky and fun.

[01:06:05] I feel like this is an episode of Buffy.

[01:06:08] I know it annoys some people, honestly, but I like it.

[01:06:13] Like, it's cheesy and it's just fun humor.

[01:06:16] It's funny and cute.

[01:06:18] Yeah.

[01:06:19] And we're not into like the deep part of the season.

[01:06:23] It's still world building and giving us like, you know, the first three seasons run on the metaphor of like high school is hell.

[01:06:33] And the, you know, we externalize the issues that teenagers go through by turning them into monsters.

[01:06:38] Well, now it's college and it's still hell.

[01:06:43] And, you know, dealing with roommates is a very real problem that a lot of people struggle with in college.

[01:06:48] The fact that Buffy's is a demon is just a Buffy special, but like all that other stuff up to the demon part was all super realistic.

[01:06:55] And absolutely is probably happening in a college dorm room right now.

[01:07:00] Yeah.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:01] Like as, as we just described it, like we could relate to all of this.

[01:07:05] And I think that's the beauty of the show where it's like, yeah, I can relate to it.

[01:07:11] Yes.

[01:07:12] She turns into a demon at the end and yes, there's a slayer to fight them.

[01:07:17] And yeah, we can relate to it.

[01:07:19] And I think that's the most powerful part.

[01:07:21] Like my favorite horror movies are ones that feel relatable on some level.

[01:07:27] Yeah.

[01:07:27] And it's like, it connects to you and you know, it's like, Oh, well maybe like I'll, or I connect to that character or that character.

[01:07:35] And it's like, it's just an interesting thing where I'm like in the horror movies, at least I'm like, Ooh, like I get into the mind frame of what would I do in this situation?

[01:07:43] And Buffy does a great job of broadening that out.

[01:07:47] Like she has human friends.

[01:07:49] So yeah, she's a slayer.

[01:07:51] But Kathy just wanted, I saw like she would have bashed my head.

[01:07:54] I love that she wasn't the solution this time.

[01:07:57] Right?

[01:07:57] So the solution was two part.

[01:07:59] It was, it was Giles finding that spell so that Buffy got her soul back.

[01:08:03] But then it was Kathy's father showing up and that amazing scene where she whines at him in demon language, but we can all completely understand what she's saying.

[01:08:12] Yeah.

[01:08:14] And that's where that actor really shines is that scene where she's like,

[01:08:19] Like, and every audience member is like, yeah, dad, why do you treat me like I'm a child?

[01:08:27] Where?

[01:08:27] God knew that far.

[01:08:29] Who could have caught Victor Gordy?

[01:08:31] God tripped my ken.

[01:08:33] It's a good one.

[01:08:36] But you know, Mac.

[01:08:37] The only thing that kind of takes me out of that moment is, well, her teeth shoved in her mouth.

[01:08:49] Like it seems like the actress is having a difficult time forming words.

[01:08:54] And I was just like, Oh, that must suck.

[01:08:56] Cause that's what I thought of.

[01:08:57] I was like, Oh, that must be really difficult instead of, Oh, she's like, but that's so nitpicky.

[01:09:03] Yeah.

[01:09:05] I mean, I, I wish that we could have like Greg Nicotero go back in time and like do all the monster effects.

[01:09:13] But we're sort of stuck with outdated monster effects.

[01:09:16] It would be terrifying.

[01:09:18] Like season four has a couple of moments, like a couple of episodes, one in particular that genuinely scare me still when I watch it.

[01:09:28] And imagining even those episodes in the hands of Greg Nicotero is like, Nope.

[01:09:34] I'm good.

[01:09:35] No.

[01:09:36] I mean, it would be terrifying.

[01:09:38] I'm kind of like open to the idea of a reboot.

[01:09:44] If Sarah Michelle Gellar is involved in it.

[01:09:47] Yeah.

[01:09:47] I mean, it, it will never be as good as the originals come out.

[01:09:51] Like, I think like everyone compares it and it's like, you gotta just kind of let that go.

[01:09:55] Let it be its own thing.

[01:09:56] Exactly.

[01:09:57] It's a moment in time.

[01:09:58] So this is more like a sequel or something.

[01:10:01] I hope they don't do a reboot and like start with a new actor playing Buffy.

[01:10:06] I would much rather see, you know, 25 years later in the same universe.

[01:10:11] Sarah Michelle Gellar is still Buffy.

[01:10:13] Or something.

[01:10:14] Allison Hannigan is, well, like, you know, at the end of, well, Watcher's Diary, we'll talk about it.

[01:10:20] But like, at the end of the series, there's definitely room for interesting stories to be told.

[01:10:25] So I would love if they do a sequel series.

[01:10:29] Now, if they do like a classic reboot and start over, I would still watch it.

[01:10:35] Yeah.

[01:10:35] Yeah.

[01:10:35] Unless it's bad.

[01:10:37] Just to see, like, I think, I think the Scream franchise has done it really well.

[01:10:42] The movies are so good.

[01:10:43] At least the most recent movies.

[01:10:46] Yeah.

[01:10:46] Like they, and they have the original cast for the most part, at least in the, in the first

[01:10:51] one, I know behind the scenes there, there's a lot of the drama and stuff like that, but having

[01:10:57] the, like, Neve Campbell and, and Demi Cox.

[01:11:01] Patrick Courtney is coming back too.

[01:11:02] And I think like, it just, apparently like, yeah, all this stuff.

[01:11:07] So like, I mean, and it has Neve Campbell's character, Sydney, having a daughter.

[01:11:11] Like, this is how you continue it on.

[01:11:14] Yeah.

[01:11:15] You bring in other characters.

[01:11:16] Like, hopefully Buffy gets a chance to retire a little bit.

[01:11:19] Like, I mean, Slayers don't live long to begin with.

[01:11:21] So maybe she, you know, fosters another, you know, Slayer or something too.

[01:11:28] And then now Buffy's the Watcher and she gets to be on the sidelines.

[01:11:31] How's that free of Buster?

[01:11:32] Like, you know, like that kind of stuff.

[01:11:34] I would love to see an updated Watchers Council where it's like former Slayers have a say and

[01:11:44] are in charge because that would make a lot of sense.

[01:11:48] That would be very cool.

[01:11:50] And you won't get too spoilery, but it would kind of fit with some things that happen later

[01:11:55] on in the show.

[01:11:58] It would be like the Barbie movie, the Supreme Court.

[01:12:02] Spayers.

[01:12:07] But so speaking of Watchers, I had to make a note of it because it stands out to me in

[01:12:14] my older age than when I first was watching it.

[01:12:18] Giles all sweaty from his run and quippy and smart.

[01:12:22] And I was like, I just have Giles sweaty, quippy, hot.

[01:12:27] Yeah.

[01:12:28] Apparently he's a mod jogger, which is one of another one of my favorite lines.

[01:12:32] It's so funny.

[01:12:33] I'm a mod jogger.

[01:12:34] And he's also just going through his nails.

[01:12:37] Because of the motorbike.

[01:12:39] Oh, and did you notice that she was going boring, boring, just like Sunday last time

[01:12:45] with the CDs.

[01:12:47] Boring, boring.

[01:12:48] And I was like, oh, she's, she didn't even hear Sunday do that.

[01:12:53] But it's like, it's a cue to the audience that she's being a mean girl.

[01:12:57] So interesting.

[01:12:59] And then when Giles does like figure out about the toenails and comes running back in and

[01:13:04] he's like, the toenails.

[01:13:06] And everyone's like, what?

[01:13:08] That's a thing?

[01:13:09] Like, it was so great.

[01:13:11] And then, and then Willow's like big remorse later.

[01:13:14] Like, oh no.

[01:13:16] I didn't believe her.

[01:13:17] So great.

[01:13:18] So great.

[01:13:19] And it's like, Giles, I mean, I get it.

[01:13:22] Y'all are busy, but maybe have a watchers diaries weekly with the Slayerettes.

[01:13:30] Like, you know, just, you just kind of peddle the knowledge out.

[01:13:33] Like, you know, you can't go through everything.

[01:13:35] I get it.

[01:13:36] But you know, hey, monster of the week and just sort of give them some information in

[01:13:40] addition to as they're learning, as they're going through it.

[01:13:43] Like, it's not the greatest way to learn how to monster fight when you're in it.

[01:13:47] Yeah.

[01:13:48] You prep them a little bit too might be nice.

[01:13:50] I just don't understand why they all were acting as if or thought she was possessed by this

[01:13:57] demon.

[01:13:58] I was just like, guys, she's acting great.

[01:14:01] I mean, I guess they have a high opinion of her.

[01:14:03] They're like, she must be possessed.

[01:14:04] There's no other reason she would be acting this way.

[01:14:07] Especially when Buffy finally tells Willow that she has to kill Kathy.

[01:14:11] I'm like, guys, red flag.

[01:14:13] That's bad.

[01:14:14] Like, now you can freak out.

[01:14:16] Now's the time to freak out.

[01:14:18] But they should come up with a better plan.

[01:14:19] Yeah.

[01:14:20] Like that's, that's, yeah, like that's a little too far.

[01:14:24] And it's, it's like, it's like, she's never been a mean girl.

[01:14:27] I'm like, Buffy was Cordelia.

[01:14:29] She even says it.

[01:14:30] Yeah.

[01:14:31] I was you before I became a slayer.

[01:14:33] And she's gone through mean phases in the course of the show.

[01:14:36] There's been times when she's been mean.

[01:14:38] So it's not completely out of character.

[01:14:40] I do have a clip, of course.

[01:14:42] Buffy, this has to stop.

[01:14:43] I mean, I, I get it.

[01:14:45] I have a sucky roommate too, but you just have to deal.

[01:14:50] You're right.

[01:14:52] I've been thinking a lot about this and it's clear to me now.

[01:14:56] Oh, that's better.

[01:14:58] Kathy's evil.

[01:14:59] I'm an evil fighter.

[01:15:01] It's simple.

[01:15:03] I'm going to have to kill her.

[01:15:04] So simple.

[01:15:05] Of course.

[01:15:10] Just, you know, Willow was like, see, I knew you could do it.

[01:15:14] Like, nope.

[01:15:16] Yeah.

[01:15:17] Nope.

[01:15:18] She's going to kill her.

[01:15:20] No, no, no, that's not.

[01:15:22] Yeah.

[01:15:23] No, that's, that's not where I thought this was going to go.

[01:15:25] Reasonable person.

[01:15:26] I love that you have that clip.

[01:15:27] Cause that was hilarious.

[01:15:29] It's so funny.

[01:15:30] The way she's like, you're right.

[01:15:31] Yep.

[01:15:33] So good.

[01:15:35] Small detail.

[01:15:36] At one point when Oz is walking on the path, we see three army guys walking in the background

[01:15:41] in the other direction.

[01:15:42] I never caught that before this time that I watched the show.

[01:15:45] Me neither did not.

[01:15:45] I did not.

[01:15:46] It's so funny.

[01:15:47] My, my brain goes to immediately.

[01:15:50] Wow.

[01:15:50] The show really wants to keep honing on Xander's one skill.

[01:15:54] And then, and then, then, then I realized I was like, oh yeah.

[01:15:58] Yeah.

[01:15:59] And he walks past some, some mysterious strangers.

[01:16:03] Yeah.

[01:16:05] That he makes prolonged.

[01:16:06] Oh, that's right.

[01:16:06] Oz makes eye contact with a woman and she makes eye contact back with him and more to

[01:16:12] come.

[01:16:13] Yep.

[01:16:13] Which made me more angry at JW.

[01:16:16] La la la.

[01:16:17] La la la.

[01:16:18] La la la.

[01:16:19] La la la.

[01:16:19] La la la.

[01:16:20] Cause like all of us just oddly stare at strangers, right?

[01:16:24] Nice little nineties moment was Willow using a pay phone in the hallway of the dorm to

[01:16:29] call Giles.

[01:16:30] Oh yeah.

[01:16:30] That was cute.

[01:16:31] The last time I used a pay phone was in the Newark airport in 2008.

[01:16:37] And there were like, well, cause I remember I was, I was stuck.

[01:16:44] It was snowing.

[01:16:45] I was coming back from study abroad and my roommate and I both missed our connecting flights.

[01:16:50] Cause our original flight was delayed like nine hours out of Rome.

[01:16:54] And I had, you know, my cell phone for Italy.

[01:16:58] I didn't take my regular phone with me.

[01:17:01] I don't know why, but I had like a flip phone for Italy and I was trying to call my parents.

[01:17:07] And so I had to like go around asking people for quarters to use the pay phone.

[01:17:13] Oh my gosh.

[01:17:14] But that's why it sticks out so much.

[01:17:16] And I remember that there were only like two left and what had been a bank of like probably

[01:17:21] 10 phones or something.

[01:17:23] Cause they were starting the process of ripping them out.

[01:17:26] Oh gosh.

[01:17:27] You don't see them very often.

[01:17:28] I saw one in Hawaii two years ago and my friend picked it up and went, hello, 1997.

[01:17:36] I saw one recently, I think in an airport.

[01:17:39] And, and I did take a, like a, like a, like a screen, like a, like, like, like, what is

[01:17:44] this antique thing?

[01:17:46] Um, like, and I just remember being like, what is, I mean, I did use pay phones, but like

[01:17:50] another 80s, 80s, another 90s shout out is, um, having to share the phone and argue about

[01:17:57] the phone bill.

[01:17:58] Yeah.

[01:17:58] Even when I went to college in 2003, that was not a thing anymore.

[01:18:04] Everyone had their cell phones and stuff.

[01:18:06] It was a huge thing for me in college.

[01:18:08] Four years later.

[01:18:10] It was like, cause it was clearly big and in Buffy and it was like four years later

[01:18:14] and it wasn't as big of a thing.

[01:18:16] We got cable and HBO in our rooms when I went to college.

[01:18:20] Like that.

[01:18:21] I don't think that's normal.

[01:18:23] Honestly.

[01:18:23] No, we're very lucky.

[01:18:25] But it's funny to me to live on campus for the first three years.

[01:18:29] So they made the dorms very nice.

[01:18:30] No, we had to live on campus for the first three years and the dorms were pretty on the

[01:18:36] outside.

[01:18:37] Oh, like architectural pretty, but they are a pit.

[01:18:42] And I went to reunion in June of this year and they are still the same exact like boxes

[01:18:50] with the same exact furniture that was there 30 years ago.

[01:18:54] Oh my gosh.

[01:18:56] It was remarkable how the same the dorm was.

[01:19:00] I was like, this is kind of impressive.

[01:19:03] It's so the same.

[01:19:05] My ADHD is ADHD-ing right now.

[01:19:08] And I'm looking up this.

[01:19:10] We can cut this out, but I'm looking up dorms.

[01:19:12] Your dorms.

[01:19:13] Yeah.

[01:19:14] Your dorm stuff.

[01:19:15] From my college.

[01:19:16] And I was like, and they're updated as crazy.

[01:19:19] What?

[01:19:20] They have a full size fridge now?

[01:19:24] Anyway.

[01:19:26] Yeah.

[01:19:26] Yeah.

[01:19:26] Buffy's dorm was actually really nice.

[01:19:28] Yeah.

[01:19:29] That was one thing that stood out to me.

[01:19:30] That closet was huge.

[01:19:31] It's spacious.

[01:19:32] And they had nice like separate desks with a lot of space.

[01:19:37] Yeah.

[01:19:38] Yeah.

[01:19:39] Yeah.

[01:19:39] Mine was not.

[01:19:41] And the biggest thing that stands out to me was they didn't give us my first dorms

[01:19:46] were in New York City and they, yeah.

[01:19:50] And they, they gave us dorms in a building that was right next to a drag club, which was

[01:19:57] great.

[01:19:58] Of course.

[01:19:58] And they never carded us.

[01:20:01] That's so New York.

[01:20:02] And we had the best time.

[01:20:04] Yeah.

[01:20:04] And it was like.

[01:20:05] They were like their mascots.

[01:20:06] Oh my God.

[01:20:07] They, they were so tolerant of all these freaking 18, 19 year old kids that knew nothing of what

[01:20:13] they were doing.

[01:20:14] And they were like, we're like, we want to sing.

[01:20:16] And like, they would just come in.

[01:20:17] I just remember like, it was such, just a bad, like, I like, seriously, it was like a

[01:20:21] 30 second walk.

[01:20:22] It was on the same block.

[01:20:24] Like it was right next to it.

[01:20:25] It was wild.

[01:20:26] And it was just like, let's, let's go to the bar.

[01:20:29] And they didn't card us.

[01:20:30] Cause they got a lot of business from us.

[01:20:31] And it was probably the safer places to underage drink.

[01:20:34] I'm sure it was.

[01:20:35] Yeah.

[01:20:35] I mean, it was really wonderful and fun.

[01:20:38] And yeah, no, they were very tolerant of, of all of us.

[01:20:41] Of like, like, who are these weirdos who clearly don't know how to hold their alcohol,

[01:20:45] but, um, they were, they were, they were delightful.

[01:20:47] That's the only thing I really remember that.

[01:20:49] And like, we didn't get heat until the city released it until like early January, which

[01:20:55] as a Floridian going up there, that was hellish.

[01:20:59] I remember just putting on the shower and put on the hot water and opening the door and

[01:21:04] just being like, heat, please.

[01:21:06] Like, I'm not paying for this water bill.

[01:21:09] Yeah.

[01:21:09] Yeah.

[01:21:10] We didn't pay for that.

[01:21:11] Like, but yeah.

[01:21:13] Um, but yeah.

[01:21:14] So with that, that was just like all the interesting.

[01:21:17] But and like the, the last thing that, that I have is Buffy and Willow both look so pretty

[01:21:22] in this episode.

[01:21:23] Like just the haircuts, the hair colors, the makeup, the outfits.

[01:21:29] It's all working.

[01:21:32] Like the little bandana and Buffy's hair at the end.

[01:21:36] I was just like, I think I had one of those that was like a headband with just the triangular

[01:21:41] part of the bandana attached.

[01:21:44] Nice.

[01:21:44] Yeah.

[01:21:45] The fashion in season four is such an improvement, especially for Willow.

[01:21:51] Although at a certain point she's going to start wearing a lot of broomstick skirts,

[01:21:56] which bleh.

[01:21:57] Yeah.

[01:21:58] Yeah.

[01:21:59] They were like, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look, look,

[01:22:00] look.

[01:22:01] But she, it's still better than the fuzzy sweaters and weird hats from high school.

[01:22:05] It's just fuzzies.

[01:22:07] The fuzzies.

[01:22:08] The infamous fuzzies.

[01:22:09] Her cut is nice.

[01:22:11] Yeah.

[01:22:11] It's, it's very good on her.

[01:22:13] She's, I mean, she's such a pretty, but also like cute woman.

[01:22:18] Um, I've seen some recent pictures of her and she's like, not really aged all that much.

[01:22:24] She, she looks really good.

[01:22:26] No, she like perpetually looks young and it's just like, yeah.

[01:22:29] Like, like, like Buffy's like, I think they did like some gray eye shadow.

[01:22:33] Like it was just, it was really good with her coloring in there.

[01:22:37] And like her hair color.

[01:22:38] Like it just, it looked very nice.

[01:22:40] Like on her.

[01:22:41] I'm like, Ooh, this is a nice palette for, for, um, Sarah Michelle Gellar.

[01:22:45] And then, I mean that gray dress with that white dress shirt.

[01:22:48] I still want that outfit.

[01:22:50] That was really good.

[01:22:51] I was like, we're trying, trying to get it.

[01:22:53] Like when that episode first came out, I'm like, I love it.

[01:22:56] I still want that.

[01:22:58] My boobs are too big.

[01:22:59] It won't look that cute on me.

[01:23:00] But like, it's never quite work out the way.

[01:23:03] No, no, it's, it's, it's gonna suck a little too much, but it looks super cute on her.

[01:23:09] And I was like, I want that outfit.

[01:23:10] But yeah, that, that was all, all that I had in there.

[01:23:14] Cause I just, that was very funny episode and very, very interesting.

[01:23:20] Let's move on to some not so pop and some pop culture references.

[01:23:28] Okay.

[01:23:29] Starting out with very not so pop.

[01:23:32] Kathy of course says a stitch in time.

[01:23:35] And Buffy finishes her by saying catches the worm.

[01:23:40] Kathy was going to say a stitch in time saves nine.

[01:23:44] And Buffy said the end of the early bird catches the worm, both of which are old proverbs.

[01:23:50] And that was one of my favorite little Buffy moments.

[01:23:53] I think she's intentionally getting it wrong.

[01:23:55] I don't think that was a mistake.

[01:23:58] Yeah.

[01:23:58] I think she was being mean.

[01:23:59] Cause she's got that, that super fake smile on when she's saying it.

[01:24:03] Like, I hate you.

[01:24:06] Yeah.

[01:24:08] It's like, okay.

[01:24:09] Okay.

[01:24:10] Cordelia.

[01:24:10] What is this right now?

[01:24:12] Early Cordy.

[01:24:13] I should say.

[01:24:13] So at some point Buffy says, listening to the best of VH1 all day, sort of put me on edge.

[01:24:18] And Willow says, Oh, Kathy still spinning the divas.

[01:24:21] VH1 is a music based cable TV station that I interned at by the way, which focuses on lighter pop music than does MTV.

[01:24:30] It's generally more popular with adults than college students.

[01:24:33] This is sort of a nineties, uh, take on VH1.

[01:24:36] Uh, they have aired.

[01:24:38] They at the time were airing two specials, like constantly in rotation on VH1 called divas live in 98 and 99 featuring artists like Celine Dion, Gloria, Stefan, Sharon, Whitney Houston.

[01:24:50] That was big.

[01:24:51] Like VH1 divas was like a thing.

[01:24:55] I just missed the, what was it?

[01:24:57] Pop up video.

[01:24:58] I love pop up video.

[01:24:59] That was pop up video.

[01:25:01] And you can see like the people who liked that when they were growing up and now did the IMDB stuff on primary.

[01:25:07] Oh yeah.

[01:25:08] Where it's like, want to see the facts and the trivia?

[01:25:11] Okay.

[01:25:11] I see like, I related a little too much to Kathy in this episode.

[01:25:16] I used to love divas live little 13, 14, 15 year old people.

[01:25:20] Yeah.

[01:25:20] It's great music.

[01:25:21] The problem is when it's all the time.

[01:25:24] Yeah.

[01:25:24] Yeah.

[01:25:25] For me.

[01:25:25] Yes.

[01:25:27] Very, very much so.

[01:25:28] I would drive people crazy.

[01:25:29] I play the same, I get stuck on a song and I play it over and over and over.

[01:25:34] Yeah.

[01:25:35] Yeah.

[01:25:35] I mean, they have headphones for it.

[01:25:38] So it's like, I used to play it on my speaker.

[01:25:40] Yeah.

[01:25:41] Kathy just didn't want to use headphones.

[01:25:43] No.

[01:25:44] Which is also very like college.

[01:25:46] Yeah.

[01:25:47] Very college.

[01:25:49] So Buffy said, I bet before too long, she'll be trip hopping all over the place.

[01:25:55] Trip hop is in the same family as techno and electronica music.

[01:26:00] Though described as having a drastically slower tempo than techno favorite artists of trip

[01:26:07] hop fans include Portis head and massive attack.

[01:26:11] I've heard of none of this before.

[01:26:14] Oh, I 100% know these artists.

[01:26:17] Okay.

[01:26:18] That's why you're cooler than us.

[01:26:20] I know.

[01:26:21] I was going to say, I'm like, Penny's the cool one in this group.

[01:26:24] I'm old.

[01:26:25] I'm like, I'm crazy.

[01:26:26] Kara and I are like Celine Dion.

[01:26:28] And you're like, um, trip hop.

[01:26:31] Uh huh.

[01:26:32] You plebeians.

[01:26:34] At that time in my life, I was discovering radio head.

[01:26:39] Nice.

[01:26:40] But I was really also into jewel.

[01:26:44] So, you know, great.

[01:26:45] That was my first ever CD that I bought with my own money.

[01:26:49] Oh, cute.

[01:26:50] That was fun.

[01:26:52] That was fun.

[01:26:52] I wore the crap out of this.

[01:26:54] My first CD was the oldie song, um, leader of the pack.

[01:27:01] Nice.

[01:27:03] I like it.

[01:27:07] I was, I was the, that was the youngest little old woman that was buying CDs.

[01:27:14] That's so cute.

[01:27:14] Like I, I listened to like what my dad listened to until I was like 13.

[01:27:19] Yeah.

[01:27:20] I would have been mixed.

[01:27:21] I will say I'm grateful that I at least branched out, but still classic rock.

[01:27:28] Anyway, that's a tangent.

[01:27:29] Yeah.

[01:27:30] Um, next Giles, when he says a friend of mine recently acquired an original Gutenberg

[01:27:36] demonography.

[01:27:37] Giles is referring of course to Johann Gutenberg, a German goldsmith and printer who is credited

[01:27:44] with the invention of printing from movable type or the printing press.

[01:27:50] His most famous printed work was his pet project, the 42 line Bible, also known as the Gutenberg

[01:27:56] Bible, few copies of which still exist.

[01:27:59] Um, I like how this website that I pulled it from said, it's not too likely that he printed

[01:28:06] demonography.

[01:28:07] Yeah.

[01:28:08] That, that, that was some creative license there.

[01:28:11] Yeah.

[01:28:12] Yeah.

[01:28:14] But the odds are never zero.

[01:28:16] Just remember that, that kind of reminds me of that line in, in criminal minds during

[01:28:22] the early seasons where, um, reads, read says to Morgan, like, if you believe in God,

[01:28:28] then you have to believe in the devil.

[01:28:30] Cause you can't believe in one without the other.

[01:28:31] And I'm like, that's actually correct.

[01:28:37] Like that's, uh, that's, you know, I know, I know Morgan didn't like it, but I'm like,

[01:28:42] technically that is kind of the thing.

[01:28:44] So it just sort of reminds me of that.

[01:28:45] It's like, there's the blind bull.

[01:28:46] There might be a demonography.

[01:28:48] Buffy.

[01:28:48] The whole conversation about Parker's interest in Buffy, including Xander's use of Asta and

[01:28:53] Buffinator and Oz's use of Hilderby Bach could be construed as a running reference to

[01:28:59] 1984's The Terminator and 1991's Terminator 2.

[01:29:04] The catchphrase from the first repeated in the second was I'll be back.

[01:29:08] And the catchphrase from the sequel was hasta la vista, baby.

[01:29:14] Those phrases like permeated.

[01:29:17] Oh, they're everywhere in pop culture.

[01:29:19] It was, I had never even seen those movies and I, you know, we said it all the time.

[01:29:25] I've seen them now.

[01:29:27] Oh, okay.

[01:29:27] In elementary school in particular.

[01:29:29] They don't age well.

[01:29:30] But I remember people saying those phrases.

[01:29:35] Which is like, huh.

[01:29:36] Yeah.

[01:29:36] Interesting.

[01:29:37] Yeah.

[01:29:37] Like it just, yeah.

[01:29:38] The guy from Jingle All the Way.

[01:29:41] The guy from Kindergarten Cop.

[01:29:43] I really love that movie.

[01:29:46] The guy from Twins.

[01:29:47] Boys have a penis.

[01:29:48] Girls have a penis.

[01:29:49] Yeah.

[01:29:51] What was the one where he was pregnant?

[01:29:53] Oh, Junior.

[01:29:55] Junior.

[01:29:56] Yeah.

[01:29:57] That was special.

[01:29:58] He just had, he just.

[01:29:59] Arnold Schwarzenegger just had a dead grip on us in the nineties, huh?

[01:30:02] And eighties.

[01:30:04] Um, and then Parker said, there's lots of popular artists who don't get their dues.

[01:30:12] Madonna, Whitney.

[01:30:14] Madonna is a ridiculously.

[01:30:17] Keep me this line.

[01:30:20] Madonna is a ridiculously famous pop singer who changes her image about every month and

[01:30:27] her musical style about every year.

[01:30:30] Whitney Houston specializes in ballads.

[01:30:34] Basically, Parker is an idiot.

[01:30:36] I added that last part.

[01:30:37] None of the Madonna fans come for me.

[01:30:38] Who wrote this?

[01:30:39] There's so much opinion in here.

[01:30:42] I kept it.

[01:30:43] I was just like, this is fantastic.

[01:30:46] None of the Madonna fans come for me.

[01:30:49] I mean, I don't think Parker was saying that those artists aren't popular or famous.

[01:30:54] I think he was saying that they don't get the respect they deserve as musicians.

[01:30:58] He was showing Kathy that he also appreciates the divas.

[01:31:01] Because he likes girls.

[01:31:04] All right.

[01:31:05] And we can talk a little bit later about what I think that plan was.

[01:31:08] But no.

[01:31:11] Oh, geez.

[01:31:12] Anyway.

[01:31:12] Next, Xander says, are you saying that Buffy's been doing a Linda Blair on us because Kathy

[01:31:17] has been sucking her soul?

[01:31:18] And this is, of course, a reference to The Exorcist.

[01:31:23] And it's the third reference overall in the series.

[01:31:26] Also, when the movie is mentioned in Teacher's Pet and I only have eyes for you.

[01:31:31] And The Exorcist is, of course, the 1973 horror classic based on William Peter Blatty's novel.

[01:31:37] In it, Linda Blair plays a 12-year-old girl who is possessed by a demon, causing her to behave strangely, to put it very mildly.

[01:31:46] That is true.

[01:31:48] Quite a famous film.

[01:31:50] And isn't Mike Flanagan remaking it?

[01:31:53] Am I remembering that correctly?

[01:31:56] I thought I saw that.

[01:31:58] I could be wrong, you guys.

[01:31:59] Mike Flanagan's name has been attached and pressed to like eight projects.

[01:32:03] So I don't know if she's going to do all of them.

[01:32:07] On IMDB, it says, untitled The Exorcist slash Mike Flanagan project for 2026.

[01:32:14] All right.

[01:32:15] So that's happening.

[01:32:15] Maybe.

[01:32:17] It's definitely not going to be done by then.

[01:32:20] Like, yeah.

[01:32:21] I mean, because he, I mean, that would finally probably be a good Exorcist movie that came

[01:32:27] after the first one.

[01:32:28] Maybe.

[01:32:29] We'll see.

[01:32:29] I mean, like, the others are, they're fine.

[01:32:33] But, yeah.

[01:32:34] Moving on to trivia.

[01:32:37] Writer Marty Noxon is apparently paying homage to her alma mater, UC Santa Cruz, which has a

[01:32:43] Kresge College and a Stevenson College, which is the names of the two dorms that they talk

[01:32:48] about, both of which have their own on-campus housing and Stevenson's dorms are co-ed all

[01:32:54] the way down to the restrooms.

[01:32:55] That was also true at my college.

[01:32:57] Marty Noxon graduated from Oaks College at UC Santa Cruz in 1986.

[01:33:03] Nice.

[01:33:03] Nice.

[01:33:03] Ooh, a co-ed bathroom.

[01:33:05] You get used to it in like a day and a half.

[01:33:08] And then it's fine.

[01:33:09] Oh, okay.

[01:33:09] As long as there's stalls.

[01:33:11] Yeah.

[01:33:12] I guess in this day and age, we need to start being more gender neutral for these bathrooms

[01:33:16] in general.

[01:33:19] Clayton Barber, who played Demon One in this episode, has been Angel's stunt double in the

[01:33:25] past.

[01:33:26] He has been another vampire stunt double, Frost, as well in the 1998 movie Blade.

[01:33:33] Which was my favorite movie for like four years.

[01:33:36] I love that movie.

[01:33:37] From 1998 to like 2002.

[01:33:39] I saw it like six times in the theater.

[01:33:41] Such a ridiculous movie and I love it.

[01:33:44] I love it.

[01:33:44] I love it.

[01:33:44] I love Chris Christopherson.

[01:33:46] He's so great.

[01:33:47] Yeah.

[01:33:48] Oh my gosh.

[01:33:49] All of it.

[01:33:49] Like, it was just, oh, so good.

[01:33:51] That is good.

[01:33:53] The following Kathy rant of Buffy's was deleted from this episode.

[01:33:59] She says, I mean, she'd make anybody nuts.

[01:34:02] She has her outfits written up on index cards and she gives them names like Easter at the

[01:34:07] White House.

[01:34:07] I find that deeply, deeply disturbed.

[01:34:10] Don't you?

[01:34:10] Yes.

[01:34:11] That is fantastic.

[01:34:12] I feel like it would, I feel like that would make me laugh.

[01:34:16] Like, I'm like, what's this outfit called?

[01:34:18] What's this one's name?

[01:34:20] That's like Easter at the White House.

[01:34:22] I'm going to start naming my outfits.

[01:34:23] I love it.

[01:34:24] This one will be called painting at home all day.

[01:34:30] I like it.

[01:34:32] Oh my gosh.

[01:34:32] This one is called My Soul Died.

[01:34:41] I don't even know.

[01:34:44] Another deleted scene.

[01:34:45] What's your name?

[01:34:46] Oh yeah, Kara, do you want a name?

[01:34:47] Covered in dog hair.

[01:34:48] Yeah, covered in dog hair.

[01:34:49] Oh my gosh.

[01:34:51] Another deleted scene from outside Buffy's room.

[01:34:56] Tapperich says, who's Tapperich?

[01:35:00] Tapparich.

[01:35:01] Oh, the demon.

[01:35:02] Is her demon daddy.

[01:35:03] All right, let me start again.

[01:35:04] All right.

[01:35:04] Not demon daddy.

[01:35:05] That sounds...

[01:35:06] The father.

[01:35:07] It's different.

[01:35:08] Oh, please call him demon daddy.

[01:35:10] Demon father.

[01:35:12] I am definitely putting that in this.

[01:35:13] Okay.

[01:35:14] So, let me.

[01:35:16] I'm going to restart.

[01:35:18] The demon daddy of it all.

[01:35:22] He is tall.

[01:35:23] Yeah.

[01:35:24] Fake tan.

[01:35:25] I'm going to change the word.

[01:35:26] Okay.

[01:35:26] Are you guys done laughing?

[01:35:28] Yes.

[01:35:29] Uh, there's another deleted scene that happened outside Buffy's room.

[01:35:33] Tapparich, who is, uh, Kathy's demon daddy says, when you stop acting that way, I can't

[01:35:39] tell you how much you've upset your mother.

[01:35:43] Zander and Oz arrive.

[01:35:44] Zander presses his ear to the door and Zander says, I only hear talking.

[01:35:48] Maybe we got here in time.

[01:35:50] And then Kathy says, you never let me do anything.

[01:35:55] I like the, you don't know how much you've upset your mother line.

[01:35:59] Cause the fact that there's a father daughter relationship is already funny.

[01:36:02] And then bringing in the mothers, like the whole thing is funny about the demons.

[01:36:06] It's, and the guilt.

[01:36:08] What will we say to your mother?

[01:36:10] Oh my gosh.

[01:36:11] Relatable.

[01:36:13] Um, well, Kathy plays shares, believe over and over in the original script.

[01:36:20] The song was Mariah Carey's butterfly.

[01:36:24] Okay.

[01:36:24] I also like that song.

[01:36:27] Yeah.

[01:36:28] It's for me, apparently my taste in music in the nineties skewed very much older than my

[01:36:33] actual age, but it was something that was played a lot.

[01:36:38] I think believe is so iconic.

[01:36:40] I'm glad that that's what they ended up using.

[01:36:42] Yeah.

[01:36:43] Right.

[01:36:43] I used to drive my family crazy by imitating Cher specifically with this song.

[01:36:49] Oh God.

[01:36:50] I will say it was pretty good.

[01:36:52] I feel like you have to do it now.

[01:36:53] Nope.

[01:36:53] It must've been annoying.

[01:36:56] I have not had any alcohol.

[01:36:58] Therefore, that is not happening.

[01:37:02] I remember like distinctly being in the pool and be like, do you want to hear it again?

[01:37:07] Do you want, do you want to hear me do it again?

[01:37:09] My mom was like, okay, sweetie.

[01:37:10] Oh, your parents love you so much.

[01:37:13] Yes, they do.

[01:37:15] I was very lucky.

[01:37:16] We had a bay window that had curtains and that was my stage that they had to watch.

[01:37:23] Oh, the sacrifices.

[01:37:26] Such tolerant parents.

[01:37:28] That's great.

[01:37:30] Good touch for all.

[01:37:31] Such loving parents.

[01:37:33] Oh my goodness.

[01:37:34] And finally, Roger Morrissey, who plays Tuparic, also portrays the Hans and Greta Strauss demon

[01:37:42] in season three episode Gingerbread, which the three of us also covered.

[01:37:46] I love that episode.

[01:37:47] He is just a demon daddy in all these seasons.

[01:37:51] He's all big and scary in that one too.

[01:37:55] Yeah.

[01:37:57] That's how they like it.

[01:37:58] And I love that one where he's like, kill the bad girls.

[01:38:04] Which is something a demon zaddy would say.

[01:38:08] That's true.

[01:38:09] Be a bad girl.

[01:38:11] We're going off on a whole other tangent.

[01:38:12] That's our brand.

[01:38:13] Okay.

[01:38:14] So we have come to that moment in the episode where I ask y'all, does it still slay?

[01:38:21] Sam?

[01:38:24] Yeah, I still related to it in an odd way this time.

[01:38:28] I related to the demon more than the slayer.

[01:38:32] That's right.

[01:38:33] But yes.

[01:38:34] The power of Buffy.

[01:38:37] Kara, does it slay for him?

[01:38:40] Absolutely.

[01:38:41] I think this is one of the kind of quintessential fun Buffy episodes for me.

[01:38:47] I never have a bad time watching it.

[01:38:50] I forgot how good it is.

[01:38:52] Like I, in my head, I was like, oh, living conditions.

[01:38:55] That's fine.

[01:38:55] We'll cover that.

[01:38:56] And then when I started watching it, I was like, this is hilarious.

[01:38:59] Like, how did I not remember how funny this is?

[01:39:03] It's just so fluffy.

[01:39:04] Yeah.

[01:39:05] It's light.

[01:39:06] You know, it's a monster of the week.

[01:39:07] And we get to see all our favorite people doing their, you know, being themselves.

[01:39:11] It slays all over the place.

[01:39:13] I think.

[01:39:14] Love it.

[01:39:15] So I think it's time we head over to the bronze for a few drinks, a game of pool and some listener feedback.

[01:39:25] Bronze things.

[01:39:27] Things of bronze.

[01:39:29] I'll start with my friend Piotr who wrote, I'm already starting to iron my jeans.

[01:39:37] I love it.

[01:39:39] It's funny.

[01:39:42] Madabi says, everything about Kathy is just so 90s, especially the short hair with the clip.

[01:39:48] I'm pretty sure I had that at one point.

[01:39:50] And the way Buffy's friends didn't believe her and gaslit her because they thought she was overreacting still pisses me off.

[01:39:57] Yes, there was some passive aggression on both sides and she overreacted a little, but Kathy really was awful and her friends should have had more faith in her.

[01:40:07] I agree.

[01:40:08] They should have trusted Buffy a little bit more.

[01:40:11] Also, well done to the actress playing Kathy.

[01:40:14] She did a great job.

[01:40:15] On a side note, my mother irons pillowcases in all caps.

[01:40:20] I'm pretty sure that's not normal or necessary.

[01:40:23] That's so cute though.

[01:40:24] I agree.

[01:40:25] That's adorable.

[01:40:28] Precious.

[01:40:29] I love that.

[01:40:31] We need to wrap your mother in those iron pillowcases to protect her from harm.

[01:40:36] She sounds wonderful.

[01:40:40] From Katherine, I thought both Buffy and Kathy were being influenced by the demons, especially when Buffy's friends were so quick to turn on her.

[01:40:49] And then we have some emails from coffee and vodka.

[01:40:55] Greetings sorority slayers.

[01:40:57] Love that.

[01:40:59] If pressed for a centerpiece for this episode, I'd have to go with the role of the soul.

[01:41:05] For Angel, it was the negligible difference between monster and man.

[01:41:09] For Buffy, it kept a negligible shortness of temper at bay.

[01:41:14] And for Kathy, it was just camouflage.

[01:41:19] Good point.

[01:41:21] As a lefty atheist and just looking at the whole soul thing as a plot device, it served its purpose.

[01:41:29] But I'd like to have seen a more consistent take on the addition or removal of the old meaning maker and or guilt filter.

[01:41:39] As for the episode itself, Dagny Kerr played so well off Sarah, you could almost see them bouncing ideas off with the creative team and each other concerning how to better antagonize and harm one another.

[01:41:54] Oh, that's so true.

[01:41:55] I'm thinking of that.

[01:41:57] Pure comedic gold.

[01:41:59] We knew that Buffy and Willow had to end up sharing a room.

[01:42:03] It was nice of them to make a Kathy sandwich of it for a very entertaining transition.

[01:42:10] How do you think they explained her disappearance after the very well witnessed violent fracas?

[01:42:18] Fracas.

[01:42:18] Fracas.

[01:42:20] See, words, me too.

[01:42:21] Yeah.

[01:42:22] Of four face offs, shackleless bachelors and non-creepy grown up friends out of five.

[01:42:34] Peace and take care coffee and vodka.

[01:42:37] P.S.

[01:42:38] Hope your holidays went well.

[01:42:40] Oh, I love that.

[01:42:41] Thank you.

[01:42:42] Great email as always.

[01:42:44] Thank you.

[01:42:44] That was a great coffee.

[01:42:46] How do you think?

[01:42:47] Maybe they just wrote a note like Sunday.

[01:42:49] Yeah.

[01:42:50] It's all too much.

[01:42:51] I left.

[01:42:52] Don't follow me.

[01:42:53] Yeah.

[01:42:54] And then Xander took all her stuff.

[01:42:55] At least she doesn't have parents wondering where the heck she is.

[01:42:59] That probably helps.

[01:43:00] Yeah.

[01:43:01] No one's calling.

[01:43:02] Who got her Celine poster?

[01:43:05] The dumpster outside?

[01:43:08] Aww.

[01:43:09] Willow gave it to her roommate.

[01:43:12] They need to make room for a Klimt and a Monet on those walls.

[01:43:17] There you go.

[01:43:19] Yes.

[01:43:19] Yes.

[01:43:19] Very much so.

[01:43:20] Oh, man.

[01:43:22] All right.

[01:43:23] That's the end of the main section of the podcast.

[01:43:26] Stay tuned for the Watchers Diaries if you want to hear us talk all spoilers and stuff.

[01:43:32] If you'd like to join the conversation, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com and in the show notes for each episode.

[01:43:41] Also at podcastica.com, you'll find links to our social media pages and all of our other shows.

[01:43:47] And there are so many other wonderful podcastica shows to choose from.

[01:43:52] I am eagerly awaiting the second episode of the second season of Squid Game Cast.

[01:44:01] Yes.

[01:44:01] Um, I finished binging the season earlier today.

[01:44:06] Nice.

[01:44:06] And now I'm dying to talk about it and hear people, smart people talk about it.

[01:44:12] And so I can't wait till the next episode of Squid Game Cast comes out.

[01:44:16] I know.

[01:44:18] I love it.

[01:44:19] It's so fun.

[01:44:19] I've, I've been listening to Run For Your Lives.

[01:44:23] They just did Violent Night Holiday Special and they did a fantastic podcast on the substance, just like Adrenaline Cinema just did a really great podcast on that as well.

[01:44:36] That movie.

[01:44:37] That was really.

[01:44:37] That's an intense movie.

[01:44:39] That's really worth watching.

[01:44:41] But brace yourself.

[01:44:44] Yes.

[01:44:45] I will say, I started re-listening to last season's coverage of Yellow Jackets.

[01:44:51] Nice.

[01:44:52] Which Penny is a part of and I cannot wait until the new season comes out and we get to hear you guys cover that show again.

[01:45:02] I know it will be interesting.

[01:45:04] And I think I need to make an effort to actually send in feedback this time instead of just yelling in my car when I listen to you guys.

[01:45:14] The new season drops on Valentine's Day.

[01:45:17] So that's not that long from now.

[01:45:19] So appropriate.

[01:45:20] Eat your heart out.

[01:45:21] It's part of the marketing.

[01:45:23] Ah, they're so good.

[01:45:26] Yeah.

[01:45:26] It's really clever.

[01:45:27] I have to be really careful who I recommend that show to because I'm pretty sure most of my family thinks I'm insane.

[01:45:32] Yeah.

[01:45:33] After they gave it a try.

[01:45:34] I mean, I've been recommending Squid Games to everyone.

[01:45:37] You should watch it.

[01:45:38] It's great.

[01:45:40] They're like, why?

[01:45:41] And I was like, because it's good.

[01:45:43] I don't want to spoil anything.

[01:45:45] Yeah.

[01:45:46] Yeah.

[01:45:48] Just be ready for a little smidge of violence.

[01:45:51] Just a bit.

[01:45:52] Just a little.

[01:45:55] Totally fine.

[01:45:57] And of course, as always, if you like what we do, give us a five star rating if you feel so inclined.

[01:46:04] A review or like, follow and subscribe to our podcast.

[01:46:08] Next time we'll be covering the next time we'll be covering Angel season one episode two lonely hearts.

[01:46:16] Thanks everyone.

[01:46:17] And?

[01:46:18] Well, I would, but it's not just me in danger from Kathy.

[01:46:22] Look.

[01:46:25] Toenails?

[01:46:26] Evil toenails.

[01:46:28] I took them off the floor last night when she was in the bathroom.

[01:46:31] She thought I was asleep.

[01:46:34] Good thinking.

[01:46:35] Cause in the middle of the night, those toenails could have attacked you and left little half moon marks all over your body.

[01:46:44] That is the end of the no spoiler section.

[01:46:47] If you want to avoid the spoilers, stop listening like right, right now.

[01:46:52] We'll give you a couple seconds to get your phone or whatever and turn it off.

[01:46:56] All right.

[01:46:57] You had enough time.

[01:46:58] Time for the Watchers Diaries.

[01:47:00] It's too bad we can't sneak a look at the Watcher Diaries.

[01:47:03] I'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell.

[01:47:06] Yeah.

[01:47:07] That's too bad.

[01:47:09] That stuff is private.

[01:47:10] Also, Giles keeps them in his office in his personal files.

[01:47:16] Most importantly, it would be wrong.

[01:47:19] I hate Parker.

[01:47:21] Oh my gosh.

[01:47:21] Okay.

[01:47:22] I know.

[01:47:23] Oh my God.

[01:47:23] I know.

[01:47:24] I audibly hissed when Parker came on my screen and then when Veruca came on my screen.

[01:47:32] I forgot she made an appearance at the end of this episode.

[01:47:36] And I was like, of course they have to show Oz being like all super sweet Oz best boyfriend offering to go hang out with Willow's bestie and support her.

[01:47:44] Cause Willow can't.

[01:47:45] He's so sweet.

[01:47:47] And then I'm just like, and then it all comes crashing down.

[01:47:50] Stupid Veruca.

[01:47:51] Well, you, well, you heard like, I don't know how much this is like super validated, but so Seth Green had to leave the show.

[01:48:02] Like he, his movie career was, was taking off.

[01:48:04] Austin Powers.

[01:48:06] Austin Powers.

[01:48:07] Yeah.

[01:48:08] Like he, and like the movie Evil Hands, I think was also something he did around this time.

[01:48:12] Um, but I think that was him.

[01:48:15] I could be completely wrong.

[01:48:16] Devin Sawa.

[01:48:17] The one with Devin Sawa.

[01:48:18] Idle Hands.

[01:48:19] Yeah.

[01:48:19] Yeah.

[01:48:19] Idle Hands.

[01:48:20] Yeah.

[01:48:20] I remember.

[01:48:23] Can't hardly wait.

[01:48:25] That was great too.

[01:48:26] Oh yeah.

[01:48:27] Yeah.

[01:48:27] So like his.

[01:48:28] Anyway, movies.

[01:48:29] Yeah.

[01:48:29] Like his, yeah, his movie career was like taking off.

[01:48:32] So allegedly he told the writers and JW, like, you know, like I'm going to need less screen time on, you know, or, you know, or you can write me off the show and maybe I'll come back later.

[01:48:43] And they got all like, what hurt about it?

[01:48:46] And then they wrote in this storyline, which led to him leaving the show.

[01:48:50] And it was because if you, you know, like there's credibility to it because nothing about Oz's character, this, his thing with Veruca, none of it makes sense.

[01:49:01] Yeah.

[01:49:02] What whatsoever.

[01:49:02] That's not Oz.

[01:49:03] Yeah.

[01:49:04] So it's, it makes sense that they like wanted to make the audience hate Oz before they wrote him off the show, which is a dig at the actor because they get invested in their characters.

[01:49:13] And it was just like, that actually makes sense, even, even though it's a rumor, but it makes sense because I just such a left field.

[01:49:21] Get it.

[01:49:21] And we'll talk more about it, obviously, once the storyline really starts to pick up, but I could see a storyline like this making sense in high school when he originally starts to experience those changes.

[01:49:35] And there's kind of like this temptation because there's this attractive girl and these other people that are dealing with it and embrace like the wolfiness or whatever.

[01:49:45] But now when he's so well established, like it just, it irks me, but I don't like Veruca.

[01:49:53] Veruca, I usually skip the, any, you know, big episode involving her when I do watches.

[01:50:01] So I think she, I think that that actor does a really good job.

[01:50:06] I think the Veruca characters is kind of interesting and raises some interesting issues.

[01:50:12] I just wish that, that they had followed up on it with more about living as a werewolf.

[01:50:19] Like, it's interesting.

[01:50:21] That would have been interesting, but like, show us why Oz was so drawn to this show us like, you know, what are some of the consequences maybe that he didn't think through?

[01:50:32] Like, they could have done a lot that would have made it a little bit more tolerable.

[01:50:38] Yeah.

[01:50:38] But at the same time, I also understand that not, you know, having perfect relationships is not interesting TV.

[01:50:46] There's a reason there's that whole will they, won't they trope.

[01:50:50] But I just don't, I don't like the way they did it because Oz was so sweet and considerate.

[01:50:56] Yeah.

[01:50:56] And he just crushes Willow.

[01:50:58] Yeah.

[01:50:59] Yeah.

[01:50:59] Well, it's also like, like, I think it's the infidelity part of it.

[01:51:05] And I like, you know, I get it.

[01:51:06] They were in their rare world forms and stuff like that.

[01:51:08] It's just, and they, they, yeah, like, like nothing about that.

[01:51:13] Like, I just, yeah, I don't like, it's interesting when we're talking about this.

[01:51:17] I think the actress is great too.

[01:51:19] And like, and I think the storyline had potential.

[01:51:22] It's, I don't like what it brings out in Oz.

[01:51:24] Yeah.

[01:51:25] Cause it's like, that's not how our, our Oz would, would, would react.

[01:51:33] But I'll.

[01:51:34] And yeah, like breaking those.

[01:51:35] I'll always be grateful for the episode, something blue that comes out of.

[01:51:41] Oh yeah.

[01:51:43] That is fantastic.

[01:51:44] It's one of the funniest episodes of the show ever.

[01:51:47] So, I mean, they really rebounded.

[01:51:50] I watch that one sometimes randomly.

[01:51:51] Yeah.

[01:51:52] If I need just like, I had that and Tabula Rasa.

[01:51:54] Yeah.

[01:51:55] Oh, Tabula Rasa.

[01:51:56] Similarly hilarious.

[01:51:57] Oh my gosh, Tabula Rasa.

[01:51:58] So, oh my goodness.

[01:52:00] That's probably one of my favorites.

[01:52:02] It'll be a while.

[01:52:02] I can't wait till James Marsters is full cast again.

[01:52:06] Yeah.

[01:52:07] Well, we will get to see him next time.

[01:52:10] He's coming.

[01:52:12] I'm so excited.

[01:52:13] He's just so funny.

[01:52:14] He's, he's just really like so charismatic.

[01:52:18] Oh yeah.

[01:52:18] Like his.

[01:52:20] What were you there say about Parker?

[01:52:22] Sam?

[01:52:23] Oh yes.

[01:52:24] No, I remember Kathy.

[01:52:26] I was like, did he want to.

[01:52:27] He was flirting with Kathy, but also that he was playing that he believes in women's rights

[01:52:33] by saying, you know, like all these female artists don't get their, their respect and

[01:52:37] their dues.

[01:52:38] That's a trope.

[01:52:39] And I think there's like from that, like 10 rules of dating or whatever of like, you play

[01:52:44] at being a feminist and you play at women's rights.

[01:52:47] I mean, it happens all the time with, in fact, recently in a case that I am involved with,

[01:52:53] uh, where someone lured a woman in and then harassed her by pretending to be, uh, enlightened.

[01:53:01] And, um, it, it happens a lot.

[01:53:04] I also think that Parker is just like, he collects women, right?

[01:53:09] So he's like, Oh, Buffy's not here.

[01:53:11] I'll flirt with this girl.

[01:53:12] Cause eventually I'm going to want to sleep with her too.

[01:53:14] Like I sleep with.

[01:53:15] I mean, clearly he's good at it.

[01:53:17] Yeah.

[01:53:17] He picks up woman after woman after woman.

[01:53:20] And I mean, there's, there were a lot of guys I knew like this in college and the college

[01:53:26] I went to was had a very uneven population of women to men.

[01:53:31] And, uh, so player type guys like this had a pretty easy time of it, especially with freshmen.

[01:53:38] When the new classes would come in, they're like, there was always a bunch of like junior

[01:53:43] and senior dudes who would like scope them out and like prey on them.

[01:53:47] And there was always a bunch of junior or senior women who would go around being like that

[01:53:53] guy's preying on you.

[01:53:54] Be careful.

[01:53:55] Yeah.

[01:53:55] Which is awesome.

[01:53:57] And then if it's like some of my roommates, they'd be like, she's just jealous.

[01:54:01] It's like, no, no, no, I don't think that's what's happening.

[01:54:05] No, like, yeah, there's, there's something really predatory about that.

[01:54:11] And like having like, you know, so that it was so rampant that like the, like the older

[01:54:15] students would be like protecting the women.

[01:54:19] And I think there's a lot of iterations of that.

[01:54:21] Like, are you dating the same guy?

[01:54:23] And I know that that's a Facebook app that's all over the place.

[01:54:27] Those are wild.

[01:54:28] Yeah.

[01:54:29] Dear Lord.

[01:54:30] Like, I mean, guys shape up.

[01:54:33] Like, I mean, like these are like, like heinous, like criminal stuff happening on.

[01:54:37] Especially in the oil field.

[01:54:39] We're talking to each other.

[01:54:41] We have a lot of people that go back and forth between, you know, like our area in Dallas

[01:54:44] and Houston.

[01:54:45] There are people that have families, you know, out here.

[01:54:48] In two different places.

[01:54:49] Yeah.

[01:54:49] Whoa.

[01:54:50] And yeah, that happens all the time.

[01:54:52] I'm a lurker in those groups, I will say.

[01:54:56] Yeah.

[01:54:57] Well, I mean, now I post in them.

[01:54:59] I'm like, no, about this guy.

[01:55:00] Sometimes they need family lawyers.

[01:55:01] Okay.

[01:55:02] Yeah.

[01:55:02] Oh, yeah.

[01:55:04] Oh, I do it for the tea.

[01:55:06] Yeah.

[01:55:06] Well, that is real.

[01:55:07] But like with Parker, if he wasn't such a manipulative little sh**.

[01:55:14] Toenails.

[01:55:14] Yeah.

[01:55:15] I don't know what you're going to bleep out curse words with in this one.

[01:55:18] But I cannot.

[01:55:20] It's just going to be toenails.

[01:55:21] I'm going to be toenails.

[01:55:22] Yeah, toenails.

[01:55:22] In the middle of little toenails.

[01:55:24] Evil toenails.

[01:55:25] But he, I can't stand him.

[01:55:27] Yeah.

[01:55:28] But if it was truly just flirting, like there, there is such a thing I think as harmless flirting,

[01:55:34] but it very much depends on your intent, the relationship status of people and what you know, and you know, your familiarity with a person.

[01:55:43] But Parker, it's not harmless.

[01:55:46] He is not doing it.

[01:55:48] He's collecting women.

[01:55:50] And, and like, for me, like the biggest thing like that stands out to me is that there isn't transparency.

[01:55:59] I am all for casual sex.

[01:56:01] Go and get it.

[01:56:02] Have fun.

[01:56:03] You're in college.

[01:56:04] If you want to go and collect women or men, like, you know, like go and have fun, but you need to be upfront about that.

[01:56:12] Right.

[01:56:12] And he wasn't.

[01:56:13] He knows he was leading Buffy on with like.

[01:56:15] Exactly.

[01:56:16] Like relationship-ish.

[01:56:16] He was already doing cute boyfriend things.

[01:56:19] Like he, he, and he was all like, oh, it hasn't happened yet, but he'll like open up to her about his father's death and his emotions and that, all that stuff.

[01:56:28] And then we find out that that's the line he uses on every girl.

[01:56:32] It's, it's vile.

[01:56:35] But I have to give him a little bit of grace because he's like 19.

[01:56:40] Right.

[01:56:41] Sometimes I forget that these people are basically children and like people do a lot of dumb stuff when they're young and they, they do learn lessons and they do move on.

[01:56:50] Like, it's a very common thing to say, like, you know, you can't fix a man.

[01:56:55] He is who he is.

[01:56:56] But when they're 18 or 19, he hasn't become who he is yet.

[01:57:00] That's a time when you actually could like, somebody could intervene in Parker's life and be like, you have to stop doing this.

[01:57:06] Absolutely.

[01:57:06] And like, it's possible that he could grow and change and become a decent person.

[01:57:10] If they're still doing this stuff when they're 35, they are irredeemable.

[01:57:14] Run away from them.

[01:57:15] Very different.

[01:57:15] Yeah.

[01:57:16] Yeah.

[01:57:17] Like, or honestly, that's generous.

[01:57:18] I would say like mid twenties.

[01:57:21] Like, I mean, at that point, like you're not a teenager.

[01:57:25] Yeah, exactly.

[01:57:27] And it's, it's what kind of kills me is also in that manipulation.

[01:57:31] He is an attractive man, intelligent, funny, well-spoken, charming.

[01:57:37] Yeah.

[01:57:37] Clearly he can get women.

[01:57:39] And so it's like, you're picking on younger classmates and you're, you're picking on women that you purposefully lead on.

[01:57:49] Yeah.

[01:57:50] You could absolutely find a hot chick or a hot dude.

[01:57:54] Like, I mean, that was never specified for him.

[01:57:57] I get a feeling the way he treats women.

[01:57:59] It's like, do you like, not like women?

[01:58:02] Like, I mean, like, for him, he likes tricking them.

[01:58:06] That's part of it for him.

[01:58:07] Yeah.

[01:58:09] Which is like, that's the sick part.

[01:58:11] And it's like, you could get anyone.

[01:58:12] It's a documented thing that there are, there are men who their thrill is tricking women into thinking they're going to be their boyfriend and then ghosting them.

[01:58:22] That specific dynamic is the thing they like even more than the sex.

[01:58:27] It's about the tricking.

[01:58:29] They don't want a woman who wants casual sex because they think those women are whores.

[01:58:34] They want a girlfriend type woman, but they want to have casual sex with her.

[01:58:38] It's disgusting.

[01:58:39] Madonna whore.

[01:58:40] It's misogynistic.

[01:58:41] Madonna whore.

[01:58:41] And it's really hard to detect.

[01:58:44] If you're the girl who some cute boy is being open and vulnerable with you, you think you're really connecting with him.

[01:58:50] It's not your fault if you fall for that.

[01:58:52] It's future faking.

[01:58:53] Yeah.

[01:58:53] No, no, no, no.

[01:58:54] It's, it's, it's, it's, it's never your fault if you fall for it.

[01:58:58] Absolutely not.

[01:58:58] These guys do this on purpose.

[01:59:00] And some women too.

[01:59:01] Like, I don't know, put that out there.

[01:59:03] That's true.

[01:59:03] They have the term of future faking.

[01:59:05] Yeah.

[01:59:05] A love bombing.

[01:59:07] Yeah.

[01:59:08] This shouldn't be happening so quickly.

[01:59:10] And I get it.

[01:59:10] Like you said, Penny, they're like 18, 19 years old.

[01:59:13] Like, I mean, like we don't know any better.

[01:59:14] Yeah.

[01:59:15] But like, I feel like, you know, you kind of need your early twenties, mid twenties to get your heart broken a couple of times, everyone.

[01:59:23] So that you kind of learn of this stuff where it's like, it's a little weird.

[01:59:27] Not that it's ever your fault if they perfect their predation and like have that in adulthood.

[01:59:35] Like it's, it's just, I think women can become more savvy to it because guys like that don't have a lot of emotional intelligence.

[01:59:41] That's why they, one of the reasons why they like young, they like younger and younger women because they get to the women before they have learned life lessons and they're able to trick them better.

[01:59:51] And they tell themselves, they say all these things like she's really mature for her age or you don't understand.

[01:59:57] We have a lot in common and it's just, it's just all a game.

[02:00:02] Yeah.

[02:00:03] It's, it's really like, I know there's exceptions and there's always going to be exceptions to it.

[02:00:07] But I really do think like the older, especially with heterosexual and bisexual women get you, you pick up on the red flags and you believe it.

[02:00:16] And so it's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's less that you're, it's hard.

[02:00:20] It's harder to snow someone who knows what that looks like.

[02:00:24] Like I was too far in the other direction.

[02:00:27] Like I am way too cynical at this point to the, where it's just like, you know what?

[02:00:32] I'm very happy by myself.

[02:00:34] I don't want to date you unless you enhance my time.

[02:00:40] Like I love me on my own.

[02:00:43] I mean, well, I think it's a, we're seeing like a worldwide movement by heterosexual women.

[02:00:48] Yeah.

[02:00:48] And there's a lot of backlash coming because you know, the response to women being like men are not treating us well enough.

[02:00:58] We'd rather be single than be with a guy who treats us badly.

[02:01:01] Yeah.

[02:01:01] And the response from these men who are not good enough has very largely been, how dare you have standards?

[02:01:09] Like, yeah.

[02:01:10] You should lower your standards.

[02:01:11] We should make it harder for women to get educations.

[02:01:13] Cause when they're smart, they reject us.

[02:01:15] Like they, they are trying to put women like back in time rather than like answering the call and being like, I could be a better person.

[02:01:25] Like, no.

[02:01:25] The childless cat lady insult is hilarious to me.

[02:01:30] Cause it's like, you're basically saying you'd rather spend time with cats than men.

[02:01:34] Yeah.

[02:01:35] Well, they like to say you're going to be stuck with only a cat.

[02:01:38] And I'm like, I love my cat.

[02:01:40] I know.

[02:01:41] Yeah.

[02:01:42] Well, it's, it's just like, like, don't threaten me with a good job.

[02:01:45] Cis-gendered heterosexual men will do anything except go to therapy.

[02:01:49] Like, it's like, it's not a genius thing.

[02:01:53] Like, just.

[02:01:54] Men who have emotional intelligence and go to therapy.

[02:01:58] Yes, of course.

[02:01:58] It's so refreshing.

[02:02:00] It is.

[02:02:01] It's delightful and wonderful.

[02:02:02] And it's like, I mean, like the, the, the baseline is in the trash can at this time.

[02:02:06] Like what?

[02:02:06] You, you, you deigned it to work on yourself.

[02:02:08] But yeah, it's, it's this wild thing.

[02:02:11] Like we don't want the Parkers.

[02:02:13] We want the Oz's.

[02:02:14] Yeah.

[02:02:14] Yeah.

[02:02:15] Minus the Raruka storyline, which I, I stand by.

[02:02:18] I think it's stupid.

[02:02:19] But like, you know, he's funny and he's always had emotional intelligence, even as a teenager.

[02:02:23] And like, we, we don't, we don't want that.

[02:02:27] Honestly, we don't even want the angels or the spikes as much as those fictional characters

[02:02:31] are appealing.

[02:02:32] You just want them to be.

[02:02:34] I want the Giles.

[02:02:34] Yeah.

[02:02:35] I want Giles.

[02:02:35] Yeah.

[02:02:36] Like, for like an evening.

[02:02:39] Yeah.

[02:02:39] I would, I would very much enjoy a lost weekend with Spike.

[02:02:44] That'd be great.

[02:02:45] Yeah.

[02:02:45] That would be fun.

[02:02:46] Yeah.

[02:02:47] But, um, I think that he is somebody that you could be like, so this is just till Monday.

[02:02:52] Right.

[02:02:52] And he'd be like.

[02:02:53] Yeah, exactly.

[02:02:54] And then like, everybody would be fine with that.

[02:02:57] Like, he'd be a perfect vacation boyfriend.

[02:03:00] Yeah.

[02:03:00] Like, let's, let's be together while we're both in Italy.

[02:03:03] And he may or may not kill you.

[02:03:04] And then I'll see you later.

[02:03:05] Yeah.

[02:03:06] But that's the thing.

[02:03:07] Yeah.

[02:03:07] As long as you are up front and it's too consenting adults.

[02:03:11] Yeah.

[02:03:11] Yeah.

[02:03:11] Go for it.

[02:03:12] It's the trick.

[02:03:13] It's the trickery that's gross.

[02:03:15] It's not like.

[02:03:16] Yeah.

[02:03:16] I don't have a problem with casual sex.

[02:03:17] That's fine.

[02:03:18] Yeah.

[02:03:19] But like you said, it's the dishonesty.

[02:03:21] It's the trickery.

[02:03:22] And then he, and then after that, he's like, mean and demeaning about it.

[02:03:28] Yeah.

[02:03:28] Yes.

[02:03:29] Unforgivable.

[02:03:31] Like Riley is not my favorite boyfriend or person, but I think he serves a purpose,

[02:03:36] purpose and Buffy's character development.

[02:03:38] But when he punches Parker, I think the whole audience was like, oh, we like him now.

[02:03:44] Like, yeah, that was very smart to have.

[02:03:49] Yeah.

[02:03:50] It's especially because Riley is like, I can't believe I punched that guy.

[02:03:53] So you don't get the sense that Riley is like a randomly violent person.

[02:03:57] You're like, whoa, he was very motivated.

[02:04:01] Yeah.

[02:04:01] Like, which is also toxic masculinity until later.

[02:04:05] Um, but we're active.

[02:04:07] That's, I have a problem.

[02:04:08] But when he stood up for Buffy and punch him, I was just like, oh, oh, that's so nice.

[02:04:13] I mean, I think that speaks to the lack of men kind of showing up to support women against

[02:04:21] other men.

[02:04:22] It really stands out.

[02:04:23] Right.

[02:04:23] But.

[02:04:23] I mean, right.

[02:04:25] Like, I mean, like maybe you don't need to punch a guy, but it would be nice to have

[02:04:30] more men standing up for women's rights and issues.

[02:04:33] Because he doesn't do it in front of Buffy to perform for her.

[02:04:39] Exactly.

[02:04:39] He doesn't.

[02:04:40] It's a, it's pure motivation.

[02:04:42] Yeah.

[02:04:43] And, um, and it's even a surprise to himself.

[02:04:46] And that's why we like Riley.

[02:04:48] If he had done it in front of Buffy, it would have been like, ew.

[02:04:51] Yeah.

[02:04:52] It would have had a, it would have had a different flavor.

[02:04:54] I mean, you know, it's just sort of that, that thing of like Buffy's so strong too.

[02:04:59] And she has all these, you know, really like physically strong and here's a guy who hurt

[02:05:03] her.

[02:05:04] So another guy's was like, you know, that's not who we are.

[02:05:06] Yeah.

[02:05:07] Like it, it, Buffy didn't hit him.

[02:05:09] Like, you know, but like, you know, but it was like, which was cool, but like, you

[02:05:18] know, it was, you know, kind of like, I, I always find it really hot.

[02:05:22] Frankly, it's like, it's like, how do you flirt with, with women, healthy women, talk

[02:05:28] about empowerment and stand up for women's rights, transgender rights, LGBT, all the rights

[02:05:33] of the guys who were performatively doing that stuff.

[02:05:36] Yeah.

[02:05:37] It's so hard to tell the difference unless you spend a lot of time with someone.

[02:05:42] And it, it's so hard when you meet someone that you click with and they say a lot of the

[02:05:47] right things, you it's so hard not to rush in and think that you've found something special.

[02:05:53] And it's so hard to take your time and really get to know them and find out how much of it

[02:05:58] is real.

[02:05:58] It's hard.

[02:05:59] It's really hard.

[02:06:00] I got pulled in last year.

[02:06:02] It was a mess.

[02:06:03] Yeah.

[02:06:04] And fortunately it only took me a couple of months to figure it out and get out.

[02:06:08] But thank you to Kara and Sam who really helped me through that.

[02:06:12] But, um, it's hard.

[02:06:14] It's really hard.

[02:06:15] Who's valuable ma'am?

[02:06:17] Yeah.

[02:06:19] Like, like, like this person I'm like, he said what to you?

[02:06:22] Yeah.

[02:06:22] Let's go.

[02:06:22] It was like, I'll throw a punch him.

[02:06:24] You want me to?

[02:06:24] Yeah, I know.

[02:06:25] Like there, there really is like, I mean, I am, I am famously a very hard judge of whoever

[02:06:31] my friends date, because if you are my friends, I think very few people are ever going to

[02:06:36] be good enough for you.

[02:06:37] And they have shown up and it's, it's, it has, it has occurred.

[02:06:40] And so it's just, and so it is a very like, like interesting thing.

[02:06:47] Yes, they are.

[02:06:48] They are very charming and they will get to you.

[02:06:52] A cheat code for this, which, which is why they don't last very long with me is, is like,

[02:06:57] is time.

[02:06:58] Yeah.

[02:06:59] And like, and, and don't jump headlong because my, my cousin does the same thing.

[02:07:04] And she falls in love with the idea of who this person is.

[02:07:07] And I'm like, how long have you known them?

[02:07:09] And it's like, well, I mean, I've seen them all the time for like two months.

[02:07:11] I'm like, no, no, no.

[02:07:13] You won't know who this person is for a minimum six months.

[02:07:16] Yeah.

[02:07:16] They cannot sustain that for a long time.

[02:07:18] Cause it's an act.

[02:07:19] And some people are, you know, we all know the extreme cases.

[02:07:23] You'll start to see flaws.

[02:07:24] The big thing, the biggest thing.

[02:07:27] And all of this is advice I learned from my straight male friends who were like the best

[02:07:32] audience to have.

[02:07:33] Cause I'd be like making excuses for the guys I'm dating and they'd be like, yeah, that's

[02:07:38] not a thing.

[02:07:39] Yep.

[02:07:39] That's not, that's not, nope.

[02:07:40] That's not a thing because then once you like them, they show you all these values,

[02:07:44] these virtue signaling.

[02:07:45] And you're like, oh, this sounds great.

[02:07:47] I feel great when I'm around them.

[02:07:49] And then you start to see the little bit of the red flags and like, let's give them a

[02:07:52] chance.

[02:07:56] Women, heterosexual women.

[02:07:58] Worst at this.

[02:07:59] Yeah.

[02:08:00] It's like talk, talk, talk to members of the LGBTQ plus community.

[02:08:04] They have a little bit more of a more insight in there is a little bit more of a better

[02:08:08] view.

[02:08:09] Cause heterosexual women, especially have been very much socialized on how to make excuses

[02:08:16] for the men that you're dating that you're like, don't like, it's just not a great thing.

[02:08:20] But like, yeah, like straight guys will be like, yeah, that's not a thing.

[02:08:23] That's not a thing.

[02:08:24] No, that's not a thing.

[02:08:25] And so it's just sort of working with it of like, oh, there's a lot of red flags.

[02:08:29] Don't make excuses.

[02:08:30] Call it out.

[02:08:31] It's so many of these guys never make a pass the first day with me.

[02:08:35] Cause I'm, I'm just like red flag, red flag, red flag.

[02:08:38] You're not asking me any questions.

[02:08:40] That drives me.

[02:08:41] Text exchange.

[02:08:43] Insane.

[02:08:43] How hard is it to just carry on a conversation?

[02:08:46] So many men.

[02:08:47] But these aren't the Parker's.

[02:08:48] Parker is a good talker.

[02:08:51] Yeah.

[02:08:51] Parker will say it.

[02:08:53] But I fell for a Parker hard in law school and it messed me up for a good year.

[02:09:00] They look great on paper, right?

[02:09:03] You're like everything here should be good.

[02:09:05] Why isn't it good?

[02:09:06] And it's like, because there's something wrong with him.

[02:09:08] Mm hmm.

[02:09:09] Oh, there's, there's like, it's rotten underneath.

[02:09:12] It's like, but like, yeah, it's the, you know, not asking you any questions.

[02:09:17] A bunch of women were like, well, why don't you give them a chance?

[02:09:20] And meanwhile, like my straight male cousin was like, no, he's not interested in you.

[02:09:26] Yeah.

[02:09:26] Like, like, it was like that clear.

[02:09:29] And it was like, oh, okay.

[02:09:32] That is one thing.

[02:09:33] I think it's very clear if I'm particularly a man, a straight man is actually into you,

[02:09:40] especially as an adult, because most of the time I feel like they make it clear they're

[02:09:46] actually taking steps like they'll ask, ask you out.

[02:09:51] And some of them still play games, I feel like, but I think that does get a little easier

[02:09:56] the older you get.

[02:09:57] It is a really good indicator if they ask you questions about yourself or follow up on

[02:10:04] something you've told them later, they'll be like, whatever happened with that thing

[02:10:07] though?

[02:10:08] You know, the other day that's like, oh, they're paying attention to you.

[02:10:11] If they're not doing that stuff, they've decided I'm ready to sleep with this woman.

[02:10:14] I don't need to know anything else.

[02:10:15] Exactly.

[02:10:16] Yeah.

[02:10:17] Because the only thing that they were interested in you is how you look.

[02:10:21] They, that that's all they were ever interested in.

[02:10:23] So like, that's fine if, if what's, if that's what you're going for.

[02:10:27] But if you're looking for something deeper, like Buffy was with Parker.

[02:10:30] So it's, it's just sort of like, stop making excuses for men and like, and like be like,

[02:10:36] have dialogues like about this, but yeah, it's a, it's a tricky, tricky thing.

[02:10:42] And for me as the friend looking in on it, see Parker, it didn't go on for long enough.

[02:10:48] Like that's not Buffy's fault at all.

[02:10:50] That blew up immediately.

[02:10:52] Like, you know, I, yeah.

[02:10:53] Like it was like, like super, like the mask fell real quick.

[02:10:56] Um, but is when I hear from my friends that their romantic partners are making them miserable

[02:11:03] and they're just crying and upset and all this stuff.

[02:11:05] And I'm like, like y'all aren't married.

[02:11:09] Like y'all aren't in this, this long committed relationship.

[02:11:12] You don't have kids together.

[02:11:13] You've been dating for eight months.

[02:11:14] Yeah.

[02:11:15] Like, like, like, like what is this?

[02:11:16] Like, yeah.

[02:11:18] Like I'm just sort of, well, I mean, I tend to be like a little bit like, but like, it's

[02:11:23] like, I'm seeing how this relationship is affecting you.

[02:11:27] So, and I get, you get the positive side of him, but I'm just seeing it from the outside

[02:11:30] looking in and I don't think you too match.

[02:11:33] And it's like, you know, it's a, it's a tricky thing.

[02:11:37] Cause I know a lot of people won't be honest with their friends.

[02:11:40] Well, it has happened before that I've said to someone like, you don't seem happy with

[02:11:45] him.

[02:11:45] You're always calling me crying and asking like, do you think he meant this?

[02:11:49] Do you think he said that?

[02:11:50] I don't think you're, I don't think this is working.

[02:11:52] And then had the friend to be like, you're not supportive of me.

[02:11:56] And like, cut me out of their life.

[02:11:58] And so I have reserved the times.

[02:12:02] What I will do is ask my friends questions.

[02:12:04] Be like, what do you think he meant?

[02:12:06] Just turn it back around to try to get them to realize it themselves.

[02:12:10] But if I, I will only say something direct, like, I don't think this guy is good for

[02:12:14] you.

[02:12:16] If I think that they're like literally dangerous.

[02:12:20] Yeah.

[02:12:22] Yeah.

[02:12:22] I mean that, that makes sense.

[02:12:25] Like having, having, um, like, you know, like if friends do that, I am like, you know,

[02:12:30] you're, I'm like, whoa, it hasn't happened yet.

[02:12:33] I mean, it mostly, I think, cause like you did in a very gentle way to Penny.

[02:12:37] I mean, that speaks more to your friend than it does to you of like, I'm always very clear.

[02:12:42] I'm like, my stuff is my two cents.

[02:12:44] And like, your way is much more gentle than I've approached you with people as both of you

[02:12:50] have heard.

[02:12:50] I have also, I have also said, don't marry him like that.

[02:12:57] Yeah.

[02:12:57] Um, and I would like to say that I was right about that.

[02:13:02] And she did marry him and she shouldn't have.

[02:13:04] There you go.

[02:13:05] Yeah.

[02:13:06] There, there, there, there, there you go.

[02:13:07] I feel like that's more for like that, that, that friend.

[02:13:11] Cause it's like, for me, I've been very public.

[02:13:13] Obviously this is how I act with my friends of like, you know, I'm just going to put in

[02:13:17] my two cents.

[02:13:18] They're just my two cents.

[02:13:19] I would never want someone to make a life decision based on me.

[02:13:23] This is just my two cents.

[02:13:24] And it is what it is.

[02:13:25] I can still be around your partner.

[02:13:27] I can still spend time with him.

[02:13:28] Uh, short of the abusive stuff.

[02:13:29] Like your ex Penny, he and I would have had a heart.

[02:13:35] Like, honestly, I think you wouldn't have wanted me around, but like, so it's yeah.

[02:13:41] Don't know.

[02:13:42] Evil toenails, evil toenails.

[02:13:45] But like, but other than that, it's like, it's fine.

[02:13:47] And just like, I definitely want people to be honest with me about who I'm dating.

[02:13:52] Cause I'm in it.

[02:13:53] I might not know.

[02:13:55] I'm not going to make a life decision based on what other people are telling me.

[02:13:58] It is going to make me be curious though.

[02:14:01] But I want to hear from people.

[02:14:02] I trust and respect and value their opinions about someone that I'm spending that much time

[02:14:08] with.

[02:14:09] Like that is something that I think is super important.

[02:14:14] That's on the record.

[02:14:15] So if Kara like, I want you to tell me from her future wedding.

[02:14:21] Don't invite Sam.

[02:14:22] She's going to be honest.

[02:14:26] Meanwhile, I'm at the wedding.

[02:14:28] I'm texting Sam.

[02:14:30] All right.

[02:14:30] This is what I'm going to say.

[02:14:32] We're going to save Kara from this guy.

[02:14:35] Like if I ever get married again, it will take somebody very special in a very long time.

[02:14:42] Yeah.

[02:14:42] Like I, I'm just like, you know what?

[02:14:45] I don't think I need it.

[02:14:45] You don't need it.

[02:14:46] I do like my piece.

[02:14:48] I gotta say, I do like my piece, which I think is a very dangerous thing for straight

[02:14:55] men that women are starting to realize that some, some straight men of their, they're

[02:15:00] starting to realize women don't actually need them.

[02:15:04] We want them, but we don't need some women.

[02:15:06] Want them, but we don't need them.

[02:15:08] We actually kind of like our lives.

[02:15:10] I have a nice house.

[02:15:12] I got a cat.

[02:15:13] I have friends.

[02:15:14] Like I'm, I'm good.

[02:15:16] That's the thing.

[02:15:17] And the guys with the emotional intelligence, it won't be an issue.

[02:15:20] Like they, they, they will find their partners.

[02:15:23] It's never going to be an issue.

[02:15:24] The ones who don't work out their stuff.

[02:15:28] That's where it's going to be an issue.

[02:15:28] And then they go on Tik Tok and make videos like, I'm not even going to marry an American

[02:15:33] woman.

[02:15:33] I'm going to go to another country and find, it's like, so you admit that you need a language

[02:15:38] barrier.

[02:15:39] So a woman can't understand what a jerk you are.

[02:15:41] Got it.

[02:15:42] Yep.

[02:15:42] And you need to hold her hostage.

[02:15:45] And dependent on you.

[02:15:46] Yeah.

[02:15:46] You're going to go to a poor country and dangle some American currency in front of them and

[02:15:51] like lure some poor woman into your nest.

[02:15:54] That's depressing.

[02:15:55] Weirdo.

[02:15:55] Hmm.

[02:15:56] I mean, that's like a survival thing.

[02:15:58] And it's like, so you want a hostage full of jokes on you because if, if it does work

[02:16:03] out where you bring her here, she gets the green card, she can leave.

[02:16:06] And there's actually organizations who will help this poor person that you trafficked

[02:16:10] in.

[02:16:11] And so like, it's like, you know, like this is actually a 60 year old dude and you go

[02:16:16] to the Philippines and get a 25 year old woman to come back with you to America and marry

[02:16:22] her.

[02:16:22] You're going to die first and she's going to get all your money.

[02:16:26] I am definitely not pulling that story from a real example.

[02:16:31] Yeah.

[02:16:33] I was thinking of a few pieces.

[02:16:35] And I am definitely not in favor of it.

[02:16:37] I'm like, good for her.

[02:16:39] If she can stand to live with him until he dies, like get the money.

[02:16:43] Yeah.

[02:16:44] And he's not abusive and it's like, get it.

[02:16:46] I mean, like, honestly, like, I mean, there, there's a lot of like privilege and, you know,

[02:16:52] have being financially independent and like how, like that's, and it's unearned privilege

[02:16:56] in a lot of ways.

[02:16:58] It's just the roll of the dice of where you were born.

[02:16:59] And I think that's the US and a few other places in the world are very lucky right now

[02:17:03] because this is new and, and it hasn't really happened a lot in history that women have had

[02:17:09] their own money and have had been able to live alone and function in society without a

[02:17:16] husband is, it is a gift that we live in this time.

[02:17:19] Yeah.

[02:17:20] And I don't take it lightly.

[02:17:21] We stand on the shoulders of giants.

[02:17:23] I think whenever people are like, what time period would you love to live in?

[02:17:26] And I was like, now the future, I don't want to go.

[02:17:31] Yeah.

[02:17:32] No, I think, I think that's such like a, a cisgendered heterosexual white man question.

[02:17:38] Cause it's like, no one else was having a good time person.

[02:17:43] Like, I mean, like everyone else was struggle busing, but I love when they're like, what

[02:17:47] other time would you like to live in?

[02:17:48] I'm like a thousand years in the future because this is taking forever.

[02:17:54] Like, I just want to know what's going to happen.

[02:17:57] The worst part, not the worst part.

[02:17:59] When I think about dying, I get really angry that I'm not going to see certain things like

[02:18:05] certain developments or like, what's going to happen?

[02:18:07] What's it going to be like when the sun finally explodes or there's still going to be

[02:18:10] people here?

[02:18:11] Like crazy.

[02:18:12] Yeah.

[02:18:12] Like billions of years from now.

[02:18:14] Like, yeah, that one, but like, when are we going to die?

[02:18:18] Your molecules will end up in another person.

[02:18:21] Are we going to cure cancer?

[02:18:23] Yeah.

[02:18:24] So like the, the, yeah, the idea of, so in 2025 starts the generation of generation beta.

[02:18:33] Yeah.

[02:18:34] There's going to have to be a cultural shift at these things, but I think that's so funny,

[02:18:38] but like they're the, the kids born starting in 2025 to I think 2038.

[02:18:43] That's a generation beta.

[02:18:45] I don't know what comes after that.

[02:18:46] What's C?

[02:18:48] I don't know, but like, yeah, Kappa.

[02:18:52] That's even, that's not great.

[02:18:55] But like, I guess there's going to have to do a whole shift with the Greek letters,

[02:18:58] but they're the people born starting like next year, like, well, I guess in four hours,

[02:19:05] essentially that they're, yeah.

[02:19:08] Like it's weird.

[02:19:09] They're going to live until the, like 2022.

[02:19:12] Like the, the 21st, like the 22nd century rather.

[02:19:17] And they're going to like AI is going to be a very large part of their world.

[02:19:21] Like AI scares me.

[02:19:22] There's going to be automated cars and like, this is, they're going to be like, you did

[02:19:27] podcasting how?

[02:19:29] Yeah.

[02:19:29] Like it's, it's wild.

[02:19:31] I think about like what kids and grandkids are going to go through.

[02:19:34] Like.

[02:19:34] Yeah.

[02:19:34] The technology just is mind blowing.

[02:19:37] Crazy.

[02:19:37] Yeah.

[02:19:38] It's exciting.

[02:19:38] But at the same time, I don't want to learn any new things.

[02:19:43] Um, yeah, no, I'm so tired of entering my personal information into yet another app.

[02:19:49] I'm like, just, I know.

[02:19:51] It's like, tell me how to do it.

[02:19:53] I want the, our, our alien overlords to land and, and, and make the world a better place.

[02:19:58] Cause honestly, at least America's going in a rough spot.

[02:20:01] They're going to be like, take me to your leader.

[02:20:03] And we'll be like, you don't want to.

[02:20:05] You don't want that.

[02:20:06] Thank you.

[02:20:09] We're going to be like, thank you.

[02:20:11] What are you going to do?

[02:20:13] Please, please, please.

[02:20:14] Are you going to replace them with a pod person?

[02:20:16] That would be fine.

[02:20:18] Yeah.

[02:20:18] Like, like, please, please, please come, please, please come and meet our leader.

[02:20:22] And then realize you need to take over.

[02:20:24] Or is he already one of you?

[02:20:25] He might already be one of you.

[02:20:26] No, I feel like he's too stupid.

[02:20:29] I think he's a lizard person.

[02:20:32] Oh my gosh.

[02:20:33] There's an, there was an investigator at my office that believed in the lizard people.

[02:20:38] Like full blown conspiracy theory.

[02:20:42] It must be hard to be a conspiracy theorist.

[02:20:44] So much of it is coming true.

[02:20:46] It's like satire.

[02:20:47] No, I'm not talking to you.

[02:20:50] This theory is like, did you say conspiracy?

[02:20:54] But, but yeah, like I, I want the alien overlords to land.

[02:20:58] I feel like, honestly, if they have interstellar travel, they got to know better ways of running things.

[02:21:05] So like, let's let, let's do it.

[02:21:07] I want your medical technology, please.

[02:21:10] Like, I mean, we, we feel like, like, what, like, what was it?

[02:21:13] I just saw something online where it says like the first space hotel should be operational in two years.

[02:21:18] Like someone posted, we literally just want healthcare.

[02:21:22] Yeah.

[02:21:23] Like, I mean, let's, let's go.

[02:21:26] Like I am, I am willing to be a servant of the alien overlords if they give us free healthcare.

[02:21:33] I mean, like, I mean, it's like this, this feels weird.

[02:21:36] Like, it's like, you're going to give us healthy water and food and free healthcare.

[02:21:43] Why not?

[02:21:46] The aliens landed and they were like, we're going to fix everything for you.

[02:21:50] And the humans were like, yay.

[02:21:51] Yeah.

[02:21:52] And then secretly they were eating people or something.

[02:21:54] I don't remember what the secret was.

[02:21:56] Well, I mean, they were also super hot and led by a woman.

[02:22:00] But they were lizard people in super hot human suits.

[02:22:05] At this point, I'd take it.

[02:22:09] At this point, I'd take it.

[02:22:11] Apparently robots are the next on the dating market for women.

[02:22:15] But yeah, I mean, like, I'll, I'll, I'll take it.

[02:22:18] And also led by a female lizard person.

[02:22:21] I like it.

[02:22:23] I, I, I, you know, it's, we have gotten more progressive than America.

[02:22:28] This is one of our, I know, this is the most most most ever.

[02:22:31] And I'm loving it.

[02:22:33] But I think, I think that we have, we have done enough damage here.

[02:22:37] I'm going to call it and say, that is the complete end of our show.

[02:22:44] Thanks for listening.

[02:22:46] And until next time, I'm Penny.

[02:22:48] I'm Sam.

[02:22:50] And I'm Kara.

[02:22:52] Keep slaying.

[02:22:54] Evil toenails.

[02:22:57] I'm the evil toenail.

[02:23:16] I did it again.

[02:23:20] This time my phone vibrated on my thigh, so I was legitimately.