94: BTVS S5E8 “Shadow”

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Oh... The, uh... Demon woman was here, the one who attacked you. It's no biggie, she just got an amulet and a bloodstone. That can create a monster. Okay, biggie. My god, are you guys okay though? I mean, no one got hurt, right? No, no, no, thankfully. No violence to speak of. Okay, so that's good. How did she get away with this bad mojo stuff?

[00:00:35] Giles. I didn't know it was her. I mean, how could I? Maybe with any consolation, I may have overcharged her.

[00:01:11] Still Slaying, of Buffyverse Podcast, I'm Penny. And I'm Cara. For this episode, we're gonna be discussing Season 5, Episode 8 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, titled Shadow, written by David Fury and Rebecca Kirshner, and directed by Daniel Attias. This episode originally aired on November 21st, 2000, to an audience of 3.2 million households.

[00:01:36] And some of the translated alternative titles in other languages for the episode were Incantation in French and The Shadow in Italian. Pretty much every language has a word for shadow. Yeah, that's an easy one. Yep, that was pretty handy this time. That's good. Before we get into it, a little housekeeping scheduling stuff. I am way too busy during the month of November, and so we are gonna go on hiatus until December.

[00:02:06] Yeah. We'll be back then. I'm sorry to do it, but I just was looking at my calendar and realized I was gonna go insane. So we'll be back in December, everybody. That will give everyone lots of time to catch up to us. Get your feet back in. Yeah, and get your entries in to win a Buffy Polly Pocket. Exactly. All right, with that, let's journey back in time to November of the year 2000.

[00:02:35] Let's see. So first up, with the number one song in the US at this time, it is still Independent Women Part One by Destiny's Child. And the number one song in the UK is Can't Fight the Moonlight by Leanne Rimes, which I'm pretty sure was one of the main songs in Coyote Ugly. Oh. Does that sound right? I was obsessed. Not a movie I saw. Oh God, I was obsessed. I should not have been. Yeah, you were way too young for that.

[00:03:05] But I was obsessed with this song. Actually, at this moment, I was living about two and a half blocks from the Coyote Ugly bar. That's crazy. Yeah. And I was dancing and singing in my room with my hairbrush. Nice. And then the best selling books at this time, The Last Precincts by Patricia Cornwell is still number one in fiction.

[00:03:31] And then we have The O'Reilly Factor by Bill O'Reilly in nonfiction. Let's see. For US box office, we had a lot of kids like holiday movies coming out during this time. Number one is How the Grinch Stole Christmas, the Jim Carrey live action version. And number two is Rugrats in Paris. And number three is Charlie's Angels. That's hilarious.

[00:03:57] I remember going to see all of those in the theater. It's really funny. I, to this day, have not seen the Grinch movie or Rugrats in Paris and I'm fine with that. That's okay. Yeah. Honestly, I think I would rather watch Rugrats in Paris again. Yeah. I've seen, that was the first of the Charlie's Angels movies, right? This is Drew, Lucy and Charlize. And it's the one with Sam Rockwell. That's right. I love Sam Rockwell.

[00:04:28] That's fun. So in the news that week on the 20th, China accepted the UN Human Rights Accord and agreed to cooperate and train their officials on legal procedures and changes to human rights policy. On the 22nd, Republican Vice President candidate Dick Cheney suffered a mild heart attack and quickly recovered. I remember that. And at the time, I made a joke. Do you think his heart is attacking him in an attempt to escape? And I still think that's a really funny joke.

[00:04:59] On the 23rd, the Florida State Supreme Court ruled against Al Gore and unanimously refused to compel Miami-Dade County to resume manual recounting of nearly 700,000 paper ballots. That is not the end of that dispute. Great.

[00:05:17] And on November 25th, 2000, talks at the HAG conference seeking a treaty amongst nations regarding global warming broke down over a last minute disagreement between Europe and American negotiators, leaving environmental groups and other observers stunned. Yeah. I can't imagine being stunned by any bad behavior on the part of any governmental entity anymore. I'd be like, yeah, that's about normal.

[00:05:46] You're like, surely we can all come together and agree on how to combat climate change? No. No, no, no. Spoiler alert, it doesn't get better. Not even remotely. Oh, God. But don't worry, because people are selling emergency kits for when the climate change gets really bad. You can buy those on the internet and they come in a myriad of fun colors.

[00:06:15] Super fun colors. Capitalism has responded. I bought a turquoise hand crank radio the other day. There you go. There you go. Woohoo. So fun. I love how the advice of creating your emergency kit is to put like three months worth of your medications in there. As if you can get prescriptions filled in advance. Like, I can't get syringes right now. Yeah. For any of my allergy shots.

[00:06:43] And I was like, what about people that, you know, need insulin to live? We don't care about those people. Like this is whoo. Anyway, I'm going to go back in my brain to pre 9 11. Yeah. November 2000. When I still had hope in my heart. Yeah, that was a good time. Yeah. Just watching Rugrats in Paris. Not a care in the world. And Buffy. And Buffy.

[00:07:13] So let's get into it. Let's talk about this episode. We have a lot of fun. I love this stuff mixed in with some pretty heavy, sad stuff. Very heavy. So let's start with something a little more fun. And this is a great Anya episode. It is. We get the first hint of her being afraid of bunnies. Yeah. It's awesome. It makes me so happy. No, we, the first hint was in the season four Halloween episode. That's right.

[00:07:42] Because she dressed as a bunny to be scary for Halloween. Oh my God. I forgot about that episode. I should watch that today. Yeah. It's, it's, it's Halloween. So yeah. Anya is so great. I have a clip. Here we go. Hey. The haze are startling the customers. And, and pretty much the state.

[00:08:10] You sold someone a Kohl's amulet and a Sobeckian bloodstone. Yes, I believe I did. Are you stupid or something? Allow me to answer that question with a firing. She's kidding. Ann, we talked about the employee employer vocabulary no-no's. That was number five. You never sell these things together ever. Bad news. Don't you know about the Sobekites? Oh, I do.

[00:08:37] It was an ancient Egyptian cult heavy into dark magic. And the Kohl's amulet, wasn't that a transmogrification conduit? Damn straight. Be that as it may, I still see no reason for concern. I mean, the, the, the, the Sobekian transmogrification spells were lost thousands of years ago. And besides the young woman to whom I sold them would have to have enormous power. Young woman. Young woman. Plus a classic, Oh dear Lord from Giles.

[00:09:07] Yeah. Never get tired of those. Um, I love it. Are you stupid or something? I mean, her delivery leaves a little to be desired, but she had the key information. Yep. And noticed it very quickly. And when she finally stopped having to yell, Hey, at everybody delivered it in a concise and understandable way. Like we all know what the problem is. Great moment for Anya. And then there's another moment.

[00:09:35] So when, when, um, Xander and Anya and, um, Willow get to the magic box, Xander is griping and complaining about how Riley blew up that vampire nest by himself in the previous episode, even though he was like, let's meet back here in the morning. And then he goes, he goes to, um, to, uh, to Giles about it. And he's all like, okay, we're supposed to hook up with Riley this morning to take on a

[00:10:05] nest of amps hold up in tomb. So we get there and guess what? Tell him, Will. Tomb go boom. Yep. Captain America bloated up real good. All by his lone wolf lonesome. Hmm. Rather reckless of him. I'd say very rather. All that aside, I think you'd be pleased to avoid the confrontation. That's what I've been saying. I mean, I for one didn't want to start my day with a slaughter, which really just goes to show how much I've grown. So she's, she's growing. Personal growth.

[00:10:34] Like good for you, Anya. That's awesome. I love to see it. I was thinking about this moment and I was like, does, does Xander think Giles is the HR department of the Scooby gang? Like, Giles is clearly like, yeah, that does sound obnoxious, but what, like, what do you want me to do about it? He, I'm not the boss of Riley. He's just like, you're an adult to your adult. Exactly. The adult. Like you fix this, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because, you know, big part of me and I think a lot of the fandom likes to

[00:11:04] think of Giles as like the dad of the group. He's definitely a father figure for Buffy. But there's also the part of me that is a 54 year old person who never had kids being like, I didn't sign up to be the father of all of you people. I know. It's like, that's not how this works. No, no, no, no, no. I have responsibilities. I'm not taking that one. I just, I really felt for Giles in that moment. Like, he's like, I'm not the HR department. I don't know what you want me to do about it. Like whatever. This is not mine.

[00:11:32] This can't possibly be my problem. No. All right. Although. Legitimate to start like seeing some red flags with Riley's behavior. Oh yeah. Riley is definitely in a spiral. And Xander is the only one who really is taking note of it for, for a number of reasons. One being that he's kind of hides it from Buffy. And also Buffy has a lot on her plate right now and doesn't have the energy to be like,

[00:12:01] huh, I wonder if Riley is unhappy. And right. And also Xander got the heads up that time that Riley was, was like, you know, she doesn't love me. So he's had it in the back of his head for a long time that like something's not going well with Riley. Yeah. And gosh, Riley just, like you said, he's starting to spiral. And there are a few things that don't really help that situation in this episode.

[00:12:27] Like, like, I mean, we can, we'll, I know we'll talk in depth about Spike, but one of the moments that I just kind of really feel for Riley is that exchange he has with Dawn, where she's talking about how Buffy, like, you know, it's way better than when she was with Angel. Like she was crying all the time. And, you know, she doesn't get all worked up like that over you. Oh, and. Oh, yeah.

[00:12:57] He takes that the worst possible way he could take it. Yeah. Like, like, he sort of misses the part where Dawn is saying that Buffy was like miserable. Yes. Even though she had strong feelings. Like, it wasn't sustainable. It wasn't, it was all drama. And Riley's like. Very destructive. Yeah. Very unhealthy. And Riley just hears, she doesn't care about me the way she cared about Angel. And it's like, of course not. First of all, you're such a different person.

[00:13:26] Secondly, you're her second big relationship. Yeah. So it's never going to be the same as when she was 16. And like new to having relationships and new to like an angel being like this dark, dramatic thing. Like, it's good that it's different with you, but he doesn't, he doesn't have room to understand that right now because he's so caught up in. She doesn't love me the way I want her to love me.

[00:13:54] And the way I, and she doesn't see me the way I want to be seen. And I am not who I want to be. And it's, it's so hard to watch it. It's so hard to watch it. Cause it's like, I, there are so many things about Riley that I want to like, but he just, every time that he gets super jealous about Buffy having other people that are important to her and other priorities in her life, like being the Slayer, like her mother, he gets

[00:14:22] like, Oh, woe is me about it. Yeah. Instead of, I mean, I, yes, he shows up for Dawn and for Buffy with Joyce in the hospital, but he still finds a way to just wallow in his own self pity and make it about him. Yeah. And it's frustrating.

[00:14:44] And I mean, it's, it's self sabotaging that his, he's letting his own issues and insecurity get in the way this much, but it's really frustrating to watch on Buffy's behalf. Like Spike has been there for her emotionally more so than I feel like Riley has. Without asking for anything in return. Right. Like he's just there. He just provided comfort.

[00:15:13] It's a weird source, but he did like last week when she was crying on the steps, he just quietly sat with her and at no point did he go, how great am I for sitting here with you? Exactly. Do you love me now? Like he didn't do that. I did really, really, really, really enjoy the scene between Spike and Riley. And of course I clipped it. I know for a bleeding fact, the Slayer wouldn't mind me being here. Right. What's a little sweater sniffing between sworn enemies?

[00:15:42] You got a little habit of buying her enemies drinks. Cause she spent the better part of last night with me doing just that. Cause you guys are such tight pals. That's good. Yeah. Tell me another. Oh, okay. How about this one? Twice in recent memory, she's had a lover wickers do a D invite on the house. Keep out specific vamps. Ever ask yourself why she's never taken my name off the guest list? Because you're harmless. Oh yeah, right. Takes one to know I suppose. Who starts to have the attitude?

[00:16:13] What you got? A piercing glance? Face it white bread. Buffy's got a type and you're not it. She likes us dangerous, rough, occasionally bumpy in the forehead region. Not that she doesn't like you. But sorry Charlie, you're just not dark enough. Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Am I dark enough for you now? Buddy, pull me back in you son! I'm starting to sizzle! You don't know anything about Buffy. You never did. I'm the one that knows what she needs. Oh yeah? That's why you're with her at the hospital right now, giving her what she needs. What are you talking about?

[00:16:43] Don't you know? Didn't she tell you? You tell me. Mama sickly. Buffy took her to hospital for a bit of prod and probe. Bite size one went too. You know, it's funny her not calling you about that. I've known since last night. Oh! Blanket! Blanket! Blanket! Blanket! I... Oh my gosh. I love how he calls Don the bite size one. Bite size one went too. Yeah.

[00:17:11] And we've talked so much about how piercingly observant Spike is. Yeah. And he just like cuts Riley to his core. He knows what to say. It's also that Spike gets so much pleasure out of doing exactly that. Like he thinks this is the most fun he's had in a long time. He looks thrilled. Yeah. It's just like... And even...

[00:17:36] And then getting to deliver the news to Riley that Joyce is sick and in the hospital and that Spike knew before Riley knew. She's like, uh oh. And it's not good. And it's such a feedback loop too because what Riley is insecure about is that Buffy isn't relying on him to be her source of strength. That she doesn't tell him everything that happens the second that it happens.

[00:18:04] That she doesn't like turn to him when she's faced with something hard. And by being jealous about it, he is subconsciously sending her signals of I can't be relied on. Yep. I'm going to make it about me. And like everything he does when they're in the hospital is good. It looks good.

[00:18:29] But the second she looks away from him, the look on his face is like, nope, that didn't convince her to rely on me at all times. So there's no way that the other person in that relationship doesn't feel it on some level that like, this is kind of transactional what he's doing right now. That's what he's keeping score. Yeah. And it's self-serving.

[00:18:51] And it's the whole idea like, you know, is it really you being good or doing good if the only reason you're doing it is for kudos or for her to, you know, respond to you or see you in the way that you want her to. He's not doing it solely out of care for her and wanting to support her. Yeah. He's doing it. He's not a bad person.

[00:19:19] Like, no, he's clearly sees like Don is also lost in this moment. Let me like come for her. He is very sweet to Don. He's very sweet with Don. But he's also kind of pumping Don for information about Buffy. Yeah. And it's just, it's performative. Yeah. It's hard to watch. It's hard to watch. It's sad. It really is. It's really sad because I know how he feels.

[00:19:47] When somebody doesn't love you the way you want to be loved, it hurts. Yeah. It really hurts. I think he's being ridiculous about it. Yeah. Because what he wants is for a superhero to somehow think of him as more powerful than her, but it's dumb. But I understand wanting to be loved the way you want to be loved. Like that, that's painful, but he also is like taking this moment of extreme crisis

[00:20:12] to spiral about it when it's like, even if Buffy did like absolutely deserve to be like viewed this way right now, while her mom is finding out she has a brain tumor is not a good time. Not the time. Not the time. Take a time out, dude. And like put your, your relationship issues on hold because when people are going through

[00:20:36] extreme crisis, their behavior that you see from them is not indicative of who they are most of the time. Right. And it's not a good time to say like, Oh, well, our relationship isn't working in this aspect because during a crisis, nobody's relationship is working right. Exactly. Everybody's in crisis when, you know, like it's just, and he like, so then he goes to

[00:21:02] Willie's bar and he's absent for the whole snake thing because he's out feeling sorry for himself. He goes to Willie's bar. He hooks up with Sandy, the vampire. And then he goes so far as to let her start to feed on him and then stakes her, which made me feel bad for her. Right. Which is interesting. I'm like, she's a vampire and has, you know, we've never seen anything she's done good or bad. Right.

[00:21:32] She's so far. She's just act more or less like a human woman. She just happens to be a vampire. And, and, and he stakes her and it's like, he was using her. Yeah. It's pretty gross. It's gross. And that's, it's, it's kind of interesting, the rollercoaster of emotions I feel towards Riley in this episode, because it is, you know, insecurity. That's very human.

[00:21:59] Like everyone has been there, whether it's in a relationship or just, you know, having a rough time where either you, you know, you're like, oh, all the things I'm worried about are coming true. Like it's all being reiterated to him that, yeah, Buffy doesn't quite love you the way that you need her to.

[00:22:22] And that's like you said, that's incredibly painful, but then seeing how he chooses to, you know, pacify himself and his coping mechanisms are not great. And going to Sandy and using her in that way feels icky. It just very icky.

[00:22:43] And it's, you know, the implications and the, the sexual connotations are very clear, especially when he's, you know, he's wearing that turtleneck to hide the bite. It's basically like hiding a hickey. And it's just disappointing. I get so mad at him in that moment. And it's just like, why are you so weak? Yeah. And selfish. Yep. So selfish.

[00:23:12] Because Buffy is having a hell of a time. Like that is the last thing she needs is dealing with, you know, sad, sad boyfriend. Yeah. Like, oh, I'm sorry that I was being strong and that upset you. Like, come on, man. Right. And she even says it to him. He's like, let it all out. Let it all out. Right. Meanwhile, in, in visual range of Joyce and Dawn at a very vulnerable moment, Riley is like, Buffy, let it all out right here where they can see you. Yeah. It's like, can we not?

[00:23:41] And she says, I can't because once it starts, I won't stop. And that should have been the information he needed to be like, she's holding it together and using all of her strength to do that. Exactly. I need to just help her make that happen until a time when she could feel safe to collapse. Like, it's frustrating. Ugh. It's hard being strong for your family. Buffy has been forced at the age of, what is she, 19? 20? Yeah.

[00:24:10] 19 or 20. 20. Into a double caregiver role where she is taking care of Joyce and Joyce is still trying to be a mom, but like, she can't really. Yeah. And so Buffy's taking care of Dawn and she's taking care of Joyce and she's dealing with her own stuff. And here's Riley being like, why isn't it more about me? And it just, it makes me frustrated because what Buffy's doing is incredibly difficult. Yeah. She's acting in front of her mom and Dawn like she's pretty confident.

[00:24:40] Mm-hmm. She's like, mom, oh, you look pretty. Don't worry. It's going to be fine. Like, that is hard. Yeah. Holding it together, like he should be, yes, like making it known that you're there for her. Great. It's almost like he wants to see some sort of weakness from her. Yeah. Because it'll make him feel better. And that's just not it.

[00:25:10] It's the whole, I mean, it happens all the time. It's like, I want a strong, independent woman. But no. Not that independent. No, you don't. It's like, not that way though. Yeah. But it's not like that. It's like, he can't feel strong unless she is weak. And it's like, why are you always comparing yourself to your romantic partner in this department? Why can't you go out strength everyone else in the world? Which by the way, dude, like you are stronger than a lot of people. Yes.

[00:25:37] There are so many people that could use a person like you. There are so many ways that you could be needed and helpful and amazing. But you're like, no, I only want to be amazing this one way that's better than Buffy's way. Like he cannot get past the fact that Buffy is more physically powerful than him and more experienced at killing demons than him. He can't. He's competitive with her. It's like a toxic masculinity issue where he can't separate that. And she's basically a superhero.

[00:26:08] Yeah. It's like, that's, and we talk about this, although it's not quite the same with Angel because Angel is a vampire and has incredible strength. But whenever Buffy is like kicking ass, he's just like, oh, look at her go. Yeah. Good for you. He's like, I love this. Right? Yeah. And I think there are a lot of guys that, vampire or not, that would have that same attitude. Like my girlfriend's awesome, but poor Riley.

[00:26:38] And it's a lot of it has to do with him, you know, not really realizing he was being drugged. And now he doesn't feel like he has his powers. He had before his identity got ripped away from him. Very hard. Very hard. I empathize, but come on, man. Like she, I mean, it's a good life lesson for Buffy. Yeah.

[00:27:01] Honestly, being with him and he is just poor guy, like not going down a good path. No, but it's also an incredibly common story that I think, and I follow a lot of people on social media who are sort of like in the strong independent woman category.

[00:27:21] And I hear a lot of stories about like relationships hitting the rocks or relationships breaking up because the woman achieved success and the man couldn't handle it. Yeah. The woman got a big promotion, makes more money, got more successful. And like the guy just was like jealous and angry about it the whole time. There's a great Sex and the City episode about it when when Carrie is dating the Kyle Chandler character. Oh, yeah.

[00:27:50] Who on paper seems like the perfect man for her, right? He's cute. Yeah. He's funny. He's charming. He's a writer. They have that in common. But her book gets like picked up and published in France and she gets like a bunch of money from it. And she's all happy and excited about it. And he dumps her and leaves because his book isn't doing as well. And it's like can't handle it.

[00:28:15] And and I don't know if she ever articulates like some men can't handle it when a woman is more successful than them. But that's what everyone else in the show is like, oh, it's because your book did really well. And he was jealous. Like they all see it. Like that's clear as day. I've seen it happen to friends.

[00:28:30] It's happened to me like it's it's a it's an overall sort of patriarchy problem of men being told from when they're very young through either direct communication or narrative that like the man is the head of the household and the woman is supposed to serve and help him and and be lesser and submit. And the like the number of times that you see like a 40 year old man with a 23 year old wife and they're like, oh, he's an older man who can teach her and show her the ways.

[00:28:57] And this belief that that's the dynamic between the sexes that makes the most sense and is the most natural of like experienced, powerful man, like, you know, young, inexperienced woman. This power dynamic is prevalent throughout our culture. It's so funny. One of my other favorite shows House of the Dragon. Right. It's the struggle for the throne of Westeros. And one of the contenders is a woman, Rhaenyra, which is part of the problem is that a lot of people don't want to follow a woman.

[00:29:25] And she's married to someone who also at one time wanted the throne. And it's a it's a story like where she's like, are you going to back me up or are you going to be another enemy? And another magical witch has to intervene and make him see that he needs to back up his wife.

[00:29:41] But once he is on her team, the reaction from fans has been overwhelming that everyone loves him now because he is like whatever my queen needs, I'm going to do it. Yeah. And it's beautiful. And it's it's supportive, refreshing, but it does not diminish him at all. He's still one of the best, most interesting and powerful characters in that universe. Yeah.

[00:30:09] And it's very I wish more men would watch it sort of thinking about like Prince Damon is still a badass. Yeah. In support of his legitimate heir to the throne wife. Mm hmm. And she does have the most legitimate claim, even though she's a woman. That's one aspect of their relationship that's healthy. Yeah, there's a lot of other stuff going on there.

[00:30:35] Um, but I don't know why they don't just have a throuple with what's her name? I know. I would still watch. I think a lot of people would still watch. It's totally fair. I might have to rewatch that. Um, it's a fun show. It's a yeah, it's a lot of fun. But you know, real world implications. It's nice that there's more media out there that just has a supportive man with a powerful woman.

[00:31:05] Yeah, because it's not seen that much. It's also a theme in Devil Wears Prada, right? Miranda Priestley's marriage has problems and she's like, I can see the headline now. Miranda is too much of a dragon lady ball buster to keep a husband. She's and like Miranda Priestley's personality might be the problem. Yeah, but I do think her power and position is part of it because it's it's hard for men.

[00:31:32] To be with a woman who has more power than them and they don't like it. You see all the time also guys who like go after women who are like really beautiful fashionable flashy dressers and then they're like you shouldn't wear so much makeup. Why don't you wear a different neckline? I think your skirts too short like the second they have an opportunity that they try to dim her. Yeah, it's frustrating. It's frustrating.

[00:31:54] And it's just I think a lot of that Riley gets he kind of bears the brunt of a lot of societal anger in me. I'm like, man, you're another one. Yeah, this is not this. Oh, you're one of those. Yeah, this is not great.

[00:32:17] It's it's yeah, it's funny because when we started doing this podcast and the rewatch and I was looking forward to when Riley entered the story and I was like, maybe I've been too hard on Riley in the past. I bet I bet I'm wrong. I bet that I like him better this time around. Nope, nope. He makes me really bad. I'm trying to be like watching this episode. I was like, I'm gonna have to make sure I don't just bash Riley the entire time, but it's so frustrating. It's really frustrating.

[00:32:47] And even you know, you know, it's bad when Spike looks better in comparison. Yeah, it's like, yeah, like obviously Spike problems. So many problems. He has his own problems. But it is kind of refreshing seeing him read Riley like that. Yeah. And he's like, I see through you. I know exactly what's happening.

[00:33:15] I can manipulate manipulate the hell out of you right now. Yeah. And at the same time, he is still there for Buffy. And one of the best things we've talked about Spike before is how much he admires Joyce. Yeah, he loves Joyce. He really loves Joyce. And you know, he feels awful that she's sick. And that's very endearing to see. And poor Buffy having to hold all of this together.

[00:33:44] And it is really interesting, the addition of a little sister with this storyline. Yeah. Because I think it makes it... I mean, it's just so much harder to watch them go through. It makes it so much more emotionally powerful. And it makes it a lot heavier on Buffy having to take care of both of them. Because honestly, the prospect that the worst might happen and she might lose her mom, if it was just her...

[00:34:12] Like, Buffy knows she can handle it. Yeah. Right? Whatever it is. Like, she might feel wrecked by something. She might be like distraught. but she has proven to herself in the past that she can overcome all kinds of horrible physical and emotional hardship yeah and and she's complained in the past that dawn is protected

[00:34:33] from a lot of that and here she is facing the fact that like oh no if mom dies like i have to take care of like she's already thought that far ahead and she knows that she's gonna have to take care of dawn if joyce doesn't make it and like poor buffy and at no point is she like i'll just blow it off like right and she she would never even and that's what's you know so nice about buffy

[00:35:03] she she would never even consider that and it happens in real life there are people when stuff like this happens when people get sick that they just cannot handle it yeah they just leave unfortunately i don't know how many divorces i've handled where the woman is either terminally ill or disabled becomes that way and husband can't handle it and leaves it happens all the time

[00:35:32] cancer nurses are trained to warn women patients that this is a high possibility because the statistics are disturbing at how many men leave their partners when that partner is facing grave illness or or injury as compared to hardly ever wives leaving their husbands under the same circumstances

[00:35:54] yeah and we i mean it reminds me it makes me wonder faith i feel like faith would be at least faith faith before she started working through her crap would be the kind that would kind of panic and leave and run yeah like she runs and buffy knows that this is something she's just gonna have to deal

[00:36:21] with and she will be there and she will be strong for dawn and be strong for her mom but it's it would never cross her mind that she could just like opt out no and that's why it's so frustrating to see how riley handles her it's like you have no idea the weight that she's carrying right now also like it's it wouldn't be that hard for him to understand the weight but he does he doesn't spend a lot of time

[00:36:51] thinking about things from her perspective now to be fair i don't know if buffy has spent any time thinking about the world from riley's perspective sure but also he hasn't told her i'm unhappy yeah that's one of the things that drives me crazy in tv shows real life but in tv shows where there is an issue ongoing that if you would just communicate about it there could be you know some sort of

[00:37:18] resolution or improvement and if riley could find a moment appropriate time not sitting in the hospital with buffy obviously but if he could just pull her aside at some point and say hey you know i know you're going through a lot with your mom but are we okay like this is how i've been feeling something yeah and it doesn't happen no it doesn't instead he basically goes out and like cheats on her yeah

[00:37:48] that is cheating like that that is and he i mean he knows it's something he feels shame about it because he's covering up his yeah bang bites and it's just it's a dangerous road to walk down riley yeah it's dangerous it is like we keep saying it's really hard to watch because he's like a ticking

[00:38:13] time bomb yeah and buffy doesn't have access to the timer well and i know it's fun watching anya and xander juxtaposed with buffy and riley because there's so much levity still with anya and xander and the way that they communicate actually seems to be pretty healthy from what we see and i love how he's like you know we've talked about this employer employee

[00:38:42] vocabulary and he's helping her adjust to to being yeah to being human and working in the real world and he i mean xander is one that has dealt with his own insecurities in the past but he seems great with anya like there's not he's she's really good for him i think i think it would be impossible to

[00:39:08] avoid blunt conversations if you're dating anya because anya only knows how to communicate directly and bluntly so she'd be like you're unhappy tell me why like it would just be that is helpful like it would be hard to ever have subterfuge with her or like hint or nuance like you have to just answer her questions or don't answer her questions in which case she'd be like well xander's keeping something from me like it would be all on the table all the time and while that can be grading

[00:39:37] it's also like a great opportunity for honesty like it's not always the worst thing yeah but and i just i don't know it's it's frustrating seeing such a realistic depiction of the relationship going to crap yeah with riley and buffy and i'm not gonna lie though i love that we're getting more spike

[00:40:04] like and that buffy is starting to warm up to him a little bit a little bit a little teeny bit well it's just fun also watching spike deal with the fact that he has feelings for buffy and he keeps trying to fight against it and it keeps not working it's just it's like it's like this low undercurrent of humor underneath what is otherwise a pretty depressing episode right like um good balance this is a bummer of an episode buffy spends a lot of time being like if only there was something i

[00:40:32] could hit like i don't have any way to like i don't have anything to fight which is why when they figure out about the snake thing she's like she almost breathes a sigh of relief like that's a thing i get to hurt like yay i know how to do hitting like yes like i can fix this problem i don't have brain surgery powers but i have snake killing powers so she she's like happy to chase the snake and

[00:40:58] and and kill the snake and it's it's a hilarious it's a hilarious scene because first of all the snake effects are horrible like just non-stop horrible but i love when she like runs after the snake and she does the thing which is one of my favorite buffy things is that she gathers her weapons from her environment she just grabs some random chain which becomes you know very crucial in how she gets very resourceful i love this about her she's always doing that and it it makes me so happy

[00:41:26] whenever i see her grab something and turn it into a steak i'm like yes um but then when she's like on top of the snake and she's punching it it's very clearly a rubber snake that's like bouncing and it takes me out of it all the time it makes me almost uncomfortable i'm like oh i'm too embarrassed to watch how bad this is like right it's like secondhand embarrassment like oh guys no this didn't work it just look it looks awful it looks awful uh but from a story perspective the idea of taking

[00:41:52] a poisonous snake and turning it into like a hunting demon thing is pretty terrifying yes um yeah thinking about that actually happening is horrifying it's gross it's really gross oh freaking glory oh my god glory great glory moments all right so i can't remember is this the first episode with her minions or have we seen them before i think i'm trying to remember i don't think we've seen them before

[00:42:20] or at least we haven't seen them interact with her before yeah so first of all there's the great cut where they're like where do we even start to look for her and xander's like she's probably in some you know underground cave or whatever and then they cut to her like fabulous pet house apartment that's all like red and velvet and gorgeous really beautiful and she's like lounging on the bed trying

[00:42:44] on shoes or whatever and then cut to her gross minion and i love these mint this minion and we will eventually meet more people from this race because they are the most sycophantic people i have ever seen on any tv show so i have one clip of it most beauteous and supremely magnificent one this dark spell i hold in my worthless and scabby hand is our gift to you most tingly and wonderful glorificus please call me glory

[00:43:12] also we finally have the name so i can stop pretending we don't know what her name is glory glory but um this the sick of the level of is it sycophancy is that how you would say the noun version of that word sycophancy maybe maybe it's a t-r-y but anyway the level of it is is so hilarious and constant fancy

[00:43:34] sycophancy yeah that's a good word that's a that's a nice word i like it he every sentence has to begin and end with some kind of conversation about her power majesty beauty what does he say the the uh you're the terrifically smooth one when he's talking about her ankles like it is the epitome of ankles

[00:43:59] and i his and then like when he starts to talk about like being able to touch her ankle and she shoots him that look and he's like but i'm not touching i'm backing away like not touching she's terrifying to them as well as like being this this source of awe and worship it's it's a hilarious relationship good at playing terrifying and i love that his name is dreg yeah because what else would

[00:44:23] he be he's a drag depressing and they he's so disgusting nasty oh i don't think i would want to touch my ankle hilariously at one point he's like oh no i'm sorry rip out my tongue yeah it's and and she's like give it to me meaning this the scroll and he just sort of leans forward

[00:44:44] and awkwardly sticks his tongue out toward her it was like no no not that ew it's so good it's so over the top and fun it's so fun i love glory she's one of my most favorite tv villains ever because she's a constant source of a mix of horror and funny she is hilarious and it's so great because

[00:45:11] you know she looks like a like a harmless quote-unquote like gorgeous woman just no way like giles didn't think anything of it obviously when she came in she's just like this nice looking lady and seeing that she's still into fashion makes me really happy i love her trying on shoes yeah and it's just such a nice portrayal of a villain and when you think about it we haven't

[00:45:41] seen any other villain really have minions quite like this to where they are that terrified yeah like i mean we've definitely seen minions like spike and drusilla have had minions and what's the mayor had like people oh yes sunday had minions they were there was harmony had minions hilariously but this level of minioning i don't think there's a verb there but whatever um is new and

[00:46:10] really fun very intense and it makes glory like it's she stands out yeah you can tell like okay there's something different about this one yeah the worship the way they worship her yes just adds to the you know the the data that we have at this point is like she's super strong she's got a like a purpose about something called the key and we don't really know what it is buffy knows a little bit about it but they don't know what the key does and and she's she's mean but like

[00:46:41] the for the audience watching it watching the way that the minions worship her gives us a whole new level of understanding of how powerful she is like it's kind of intense it's intense she's intense but she's at the same time she's so like feminine i i love that i love that like when when women are

[00:47:06] villains a lot of tv shows go in two directions they're either sort of like super masculine or they're super hyper sexual yeah and glory at no point do i get the feeling that she is dressing for the male gaze she is wearing strappy high heels and satin dresses for her right it's kind of nice

[00:47:29] it's lovely she is just she's doing everything that she wants to do she is being herself there's not like it's not you know i think marvel did this a little bit with costuming with some of the earlier movies like i think about black widow and what's her name the scarlet witch is that her name yeah

[00:47:53] wanda right yes i am not a huge marvel person so i apologize if i get it wrong but some of the outfits and choices early on i was like really and it happens a lot cleavage yeah it's like that's not but with glory it's she's so she's just girly yeah there's it's not about being sexy to anyone except

[00:48:17] herself which is because who would she want to even attract like in her mind everyone's below her yeah so she doesn't care and it's just but it's also kind of unsettling it makes her even scarier yeah that she is so self-assured yeah it's like okay what is the deal and like lady i am constantly

[00:48:42] in awe of anyone who can walk in stiletto heels let alone fight good lord like have you seen zedaya oh yeah she's a great heels walker it's crazy just like how are you doing this teach me your ways i um i know that um a lot of dancers are very good at walking in super high stiletto heels that dance training trains your leg muscles the right way for it um i don't know whatever hope i had at being

[00:49:10] good at walking in high heels like that was destroyed after i had my knee injury and i am okay with it i should probably not try to walk in high heels ever again i'm tall enough it's the last time i wore heels is when i broke my foot yeah that's probably a good sign that you don't need that anymore no muss no no no no no muss oh geez i can't wait to get worried though yeah i love glory i love her i love her

[00:49:39] um i uh so this is the episode where we find out that what's going on with joyce that she has some kind of brain tumor um i think they give it the actual netglioblastoma oh yeah i googled it and i can't remember basically brain tumor that's all we really need to know and the title of the episode shadow refers both to the shadow that was seen on the x-ray and this the the way that doom is like

[00:50:06] just over everyone like a shadow especially buffy i love that the double meaning they had a really really beautiful scene where um so the doctor tells buffy the news and then it's like she won't be awake for hours whatever so that eventually when it's time for the doctor to tell joyce buffy's in the room but she already knows the the basics of the news right so they do this scene they pull out the sound

[00:50:36] of the dialogue and they do the scene all about the facial expressions of buffy and joyce as they're listening to this news and joyce is looking at the doctor and buffy's looking at joyce and i thought it was really beautiful it's it you can tell that those writers have dealt with something like this

[00:51:02] in some way you know like this this sort of serious health issue because the way that they handle it is like you said it's beautiful the way that they block everything out and the way that it's written and you can tell that they've had real world experience with this and this episode and some upcoming ones

[00:51:25] i think fans go back to over and over again when talking about the impact that buffy had because of how realistic it is and i love the choices that they make there it happens a couple of times where you don't hear the dialogue necessarily you just see people reacting to what's being said and i think

[00:51:52] that they use you know that choice very very well yeah if you did it too often it would be tropey and annoying right but sprinkled here and there it has great impact just enough and it it's all it's way more powerful you know we don't need to be focusing on the exact words that the doctor is saying it's much

[00:52:14] more powerful to see that this is impacting buffy and joyce and now buffy is solely focused on her mom yeah it's yeah we don't need the details like like the name of the type of tumor we don't really need to know that what we need to know is very serious medical situation yeah buffy's in a position of needing to take care of both her mother and dawn that's it that's the details we need and that there's there's

[00:52:40] going to be a surgery oh yeah um i was thinking about how funny it is that sunnydale this small town on the hellmouth that has two colleges and at least seven cemeteries and like one coffee shop and one block of town also has a hospital that is facilitated enough to do brain surgery on short

[00:53:09] notice okay there's like a full neurosurgeon in the in this hospital who can perform delicate brain surgery uh like what like even in boston the land of famous hospitals if you need to get brain surgery you have to like shop around and find some hospital that'll take you and then you gotta get on the schedule and like yeah i happen to have known someone who's gone through that process and it

[00:53:36] required like pulling strings through family members that worked at the hospital to get her in so like the idea that they were like come right in joyce sunnydale hospitals ready for you is is hilarious i mean yeah we gotta suspend that they weren't like you're gonna have to go to los angeles to right you know one of the big hospitals there like that would be more realistic but no it's

[00:54:01] walking distance from the house don't worry much more expensive to film yeah exactly so you know i did want to ask you because i remember at the time and then still i think people talk about it to this day this theory you know we know that they can't basically they can't cast some sort of healing spell there's nothing that they can really do for joyce and i think there's talk about how you know the mind

[00:54:28] is incredibly delicate and mucking around and it can do more harm than good and that type of discussion had sparked theories over the years that the monks implanting you know memories into joyce's brain could have possibly caused this tumor or been the source of this tumor and it's never heard that

[00:54:55] you know like it's one of those where i'm like oh that's an interesting thought it's possible but it just which is even more sad and like they implanted memories in a lot of people but in nobody more than buffy and joyce right right they got the maximum amount of memory you know funkiness you're like and buffy has to have even more and buffy has super healing powers yeah so her brain could recover

[00:55:24] joyce's couldn't i think it's a really strong theory yeah it's one of the ones it's like one of the fan theories where i'm like oh that does make sense yeah like that i'll give it to you that's that's pretty good one which just makes me so sad the whole thing is really sad but in the behind the scenes like interviews and stuff the uh the writers have consistently said we wanted joyce's illness to

[00:55:50] be human and not supernatural because joyce is the most human character in the show yeah which makes sense and it i mean you're watching a show about vampires and demons and we have seen our characters in mortal peril repeatedly to the point where it's almost kind of comical like on supernatural where

[00:56:15] it's just like yeah you know we're not that worried but something like this being brought into it something real and human that you know buffy like she can't fight there's nothing she can do with this one is so much more impactful and i think these writers are brilliant yeah there's a reason

[00:56:37] this show is still being talked about 20 plus years later and it's just oh it's gonna get intense over the next few episodes yeah oh joyce let's see so i just have a bunch of like sort of small points

[00:56:58] left like the magic box ad is hilarious i can't remember if it's like your one stop shop to spot to shop for whatever it's just it's a mouthful that's funny like giles is good at lots of things but apparently marketing is not one of them that's really fine i was very annoyed when buffy's like what's going on why is everybody on edge what's happening and and anya starts to tell her about glory

[00:57:24] buying the things and xander says oh anya broke something and i'm like no she didn't in fact like she does not deserve to get astray here yeah she's the one who noticed it like that was low i didn't like that at all yeah not cool um glory is on a schedule we don't know what her deadline is but take freaking talk so everybody better cooperate yeah and then um it's a very old trope i doubt that

[00:57:53] we will see it very much in any tv and movies going forward but i always am bothered when somebody finds something they want in a phone book and they rip the page out i'm like hey no no one else could use that phone book it's true it's just like i really hope everyone listening remembers phone books no there's definitely going to be some people who don't but um ripping the page out of the phone book i guess if it's your own yellow pages in your own house but like but still what if you need that page

[00:58:22] yeah that's just and it happens in movies constantly movies from the 80s action heroes were always like going into a phone booth and then like finding the person's address which oh yeah all our addresses used to be just printed in a phone book and available on street corners all over the place and they would rip the page out and and it's like the one line you needed was like a centimeter of paper but no you rip the whole thing whatever the whole thing that does happen a lot in movies

[00:58:50] it's like the throwing your zippo lighter onto the pile to start the fire trope yeah drives me crazy that is like why why how many zippos have the supernatural brothers like thrown into a fire so good so many zippos i looked up the other day i was really annoyed by it on some show that i was watching somebody did that and i googled like zippo lighters because i was like how much are they just burning money like how much do zippos cost and it's like nine dollars at walmart but still

[00:59:18] still it's the principle like that adds up and also like you're just like throwing like what are you doing anyway i'm pretty sure the carousel where riley takes dawn is the same carousel where um parker booth is approached by a serial killer on bones that sounds right um i think it also the same carousel

[00:59:43] makes an appearance on angel next season oh yeah i'm pretty sure um or maybe in two seasons but uh i'm pretty sure it's the same carousel but um it was so funny because when they show it i was like did anyone check if parker's there like the kid who played parker is on instagram now and his his instagram name is something like i'm not

[01:00:10] parker booth or something like that it's really that's cute and he's like all grown up so i was gonna say how old is he now yeah he's like 20 something holy hell it's really it's really funny um adorable it must be so weird to go through life being like yeah i was famous when i was 10 like that's so strange that is weird like that little girl that played lily on modern family

[01:00:35] oh yeah she's all over social media now and i'm just like you were this big yeah so tiny so small uh i saw a funny uh social media thing the other day it was like what fictional character from one show would you like to see confront a fictional character from another show and the first one was lily from modern family versus thanos

[01:01:03] that would be so good they were like she would take him down a peg or two i support that like he'd probably adopt her and turn her into a living weapon that's his type that's true and she would be diabolical she'd be amazing at it yeah um that was a good one and i just immediately went down a hole of all the people i want to meet dean winchester i oh yeah i would like to meet dean winchester yes i

[01:01:29] would also like to meet dean winchester um there should be plenty of dean winchesters to go around because he can't die that's true oh i mean he has died numerous numerous numerous times but yeah at one point he died 180 times in one day that's right i would love that episode i don't even count that as a spoiler because it is so ridiculous it's just part of why i tell people to watch the show

[01:01:59] i'm like sometimes the show is ridiculous for example and i'll give an example and the one example i love to give is about how they find the books that are about them and then they go to the fan convention about the books that are about them that episode is brilliant it's so funny and they keep getting told how their cosplay of their characters are wrong yeah that's not right and

[01:02:25] they're just like we are sam and dean it's like we are literally sam and dean yeah and people were like oh that's hilarious you're so dedicated to your cosplay and larping oh that show such such good television out there let's see most of my other notes are just quotes

[01:02:49] like i was like and some of them are options for our sign off yeah but i do i just anya has some of the best lines in the entire series and the way that she delivers them absolutely consistently the best part of the scenes that she's in right her comedic timing is impeccable yeah and i will never get tired of are you stupid or something yeah

[01:03:18] just immediately and giles's face is like excuse you yeah but she's so proud of herself yeah not wanting to start her day with slaughter like it's just oh it's really it's growth when you think about it i love it more i love her she's so delightful and like we said i really think she is is helping xander become a real boy and yeah and it's been

[01:03:47] lovely to not hear him constantly trying to police buffy and willow's relationships with other people i do like what is it when i i enjoy like first of all spike sniffing buffy's sweater is so and do you notice that on the way out he grabs something from another drawer i think yes it looks like underwear and i was like oh god spike gross they have to remind us that he's still like

[01:04:15] he's like hey he's not a good guy no no don't forget don't forget this is the chip this is the chip that is keeping him from killing everyone not his behavior not his moral choices oh gosh but it's just it's so funny when that riley catches him smelling her sweater and he then has to pretend that he like hates the smell and he's like oh it's so aggravating like it's a predator thing

[01:04:43] and he's like slayer musk it's bitter and it's just so terrible i was like uh-huh all right spike yeah but watching him grapple with his feelings for buffy's non-stop entertainment so good because he's not wrong like this is a horrible idea and it doesn't make like that would be so incredibly frustrating where he's just like i am the one that's

[01:05:12] known for killing two slayers like i cannot be in love with one but also on a certain level like it's like the it's what makes him almost like worthy of her because he is he is a powerful person really is he is currently pointed in a bad direction but there's like this this kernel in there of like

[01:05:38] what if he were pointed in a good direction like and it's very jealous did horrible stuff and then changed and then did good stuff and horrible stuff and then good stuff and then horrible stuff and good stuff and horrible stuff so you know could spike be redeemed i i think at this point you never know in the series fans wanted it like we all got the taste with the episode from season four something blue right where they're like making out and planning their wedding and everything and it was so funny

[01:06:08] but there was also part of us that were like actually yeah it's like wait a second i don't hate this this feels kind of right in a weird way i mean i don't think they should get married but like let's see what happens yeah like it wasn't it wasn't disgusting although to xander oh yeah sure was yeah remember can i be blind too yeah yeah

[01:06:35] oh gosh i can't wait until we get to tabula rasa yeah anyway uh that's that's a whole yeah whole season all right i'm basically done yeah i think that's good all right so let's move on to some pop culture and a little bit less pop cultural references so first up xander says when a person makes a destroy

[01:07:02] all vampires date it's simple courtesy to wait for your co-destroyers and this is a likely reference to the movie destroy all monsters i don't know that movie i'll have to look it up there xander says about riley captain america bloated up real good captain america is a marvel comic books hero who debuted in 1941 and was created by joe simon and jack kirby bloated up real good was a catchphrase on

[01:07:31] the farm film celebrity blow-up sketch on sctv is that second city i think yeah yeah that's fantastic fantastic it's funny to have a like an explanation real good of who captain america is because the mcu really catapulted him into the general public knowledge even people who don't like superhero movies at all are all like you mean the chris evans captain america like they don't my parents know who

[01:07:56] that is yeah like that's that is but when this when this show came out captain america was like a second tier character in the comics like nobody niche reference oh man and then spike says to riley not that she doesn't like you but sorry charlie you're just not dark enough sorry charlie is a catchphrase popularized by the star kiss brand of tuna in their advertisements charlie the tuna fish

[01:08:23] thought he was good enough to be in a can of tuna and the company kept telling him he wasn't thus the sorry charlie which is kind of crazy when you think about it yeah there's a whole category of advertising and like restaurant signage that there used to be a website dedicated to it called suicide food where they anthropomorphize whatever the animal is and then have them wanting to be eaten right so like it'll be a barbecue joint with a pig being like you'll love our ribs and it's like

[01:08:53] oh that's you think about that and you know that let's go out to the movies like sort of old-timey animation that used to be played like as an intermission at the movie oh let's go out to the lobby that's yeah well it's always upset me that they go to the lobby and the coke and the popcorn who are on a date the coke buys a coke for the popcorn to drink and he's her date and she's drinking a coke and he's a coke it bothers me yeah that's pretty weird so the sorry charlie ads that were

[01:09:23] big in the 80s i was always like but he why would he want to be in the can that's supposed to like subliminally make us feel better about eating eating tuna because it's not working it's one of the things that i always enjoyed about there was this one campaign for um for eggs or for chicken that was a cow with holding up signs that said eat chicken oh yeah the chick-fil-a yeah that's funny to me

[01:09:52] those are good it's like eat more chicken yeah not us it's not us that that at least makes some sense yeah right oh jeez i don't know if that suicide food website is still up but it was it's pretty funny that's cute in glory's room you can see many many boxes of shoes from the brand aldo it's very

[01:10:14] early 2000s yeah for sure i've had aldo shoes they did not fit well shoot they were cute though yeah they do have some cute shoes uh in the magic box xander references the song bibbidi-bobbidi-boo sung by the magical fairy godmother in cinderella uh a patron in the magic shop asks for a recording of alistair crowley a famous english occultist

[01:10:43] that's fun i want to go down that google rabbit hole too yeah seriously moving on to a little bit of trivia when asked his opinion on the computer generated demon used in this episode writer david fury says he was originally envisioning it as something amorphous bug-like something non-human looking it was marty noxon who came up with the idea of using a reptile from that idea noxon

[01:11:10] proposed that buffy find it hiding in a reptile house all right well that makes sense that wasn't the problem that it was reptile and not bug uh the scene when buffy catches up with the sobeck snake demon and uses a chain to try to strangle it is apparently a reference to star wars episode 6 return of the jedi and i should have clocked this yeah in which princess leia uses a chain to strangle job of the hut although buffy doesn't fully defeat the snake until pummeling it on the

[01:11:38] ground buffy's position relative to the demon during the strangulation the similarities of the look of its flesh and a few cuts showing the twitching tail very closely mirror the scene in return of the jedi i almost put apparently in quotes because i was like oh yeah it definitely is oh man and this episode is daniel atias's directorial debut for buffy the vampire slayer

[01:12:04] he has directed for over 20 other tv shows including miami vice party of five and the sopranos oh my god that reminds me did you see there's a new miami vice movie coming with michael b jordan and um alden i think it's alden ehrenreich okay i'll watch it yeah it looks

[01:12:26] great that's fun i i approve of that remake yeah uh anya mentions the demon sobek and glory later prays to it sobek was the ancient egyptian god of the nile depicted with the head of a crocodile cool interesting oh here you go and the carousel riley and donner at is the griffith park merry-go-round

[01:12:49] in los angeles all 68 horses have up and down action and they've been leaping in circles in the city park since 1937 the griffith park merry-go-round was also featured once on castle and the location was also used in the movie buffy the vampire slayer i didn't know that i don't remember that but i'll look it up okay it's time

[01:13:15] does it still slay i think it absolutely still slays i would never skip this episode there's too much good spike stuff what about you i have skipped it in the past because the bad snake effects make me uncomfortable which is a ridiculous reaction on my part and i acknowledge that but funny i agree that there's really important stuff in this episode and it's worth it's worth it to watch glory like

[01:13:41] nonchalantly buying stuff from giles at the magic box and spike sniffing buffy's sweater and that whole showdown with riley seeing riley like cheat on buffy basically all of that stuff is is fun huge and then there's crucial plot stuff about joyce yeah so it's worth it's worth it on rewatch if you haven't seen it in a while but honestly the snake effects make me uncomfortable i love that

[01:14:09] that's so funny i mean fair so if you can't get past it that's pretty bad yeah they are really bad hey kara are you feeling thirsty i am pretty parched do you want to go to the bronze let's do it bronze things things of bronze so after quite a hiatus we heard from our good friend coffee and vodka and he buzzed through the first eight episodes of both buffy and angel so we have a

[01:14:39] bunch of email feedback from coffee and vodka on the first eight episodes so we're going to read them in order and uh we'll read the angel feedback the next time we cover an episode of angel yay here start us off um greetings beguiled slayers dracula it had to happen eventually however it was handled well with mild menace and even a bit of humor buffy warning the pile of rising dust was

[01:15:07] especially appreciated the star of the episode as usual was anya with her dracor reminiscing although spike's recollections and assessment were likewise as usual entertainingly on point all else from xander's reinfield nope all else from xander's renfield to willow's placating of giles were all at

[01:15:31] their customary quippy high standards and of course there's the dawn of it all must admit i was not overly pumped at this sudden major plot turning but time and tide and whatnot oh yeah that's gonna be very interesting for you uh there's this feeling it had gone from the scooby-doo of the first three seasons to a kind of days of our lives with creatures with season five onward re-watching in hope that the

[01:15:57] decades spin away will offer a fresh perspective in closing i must say that this viewing felt a bit like walking through a graveyard with the passing of nicholas anthony and michelle guess it could be said they're alive so long as we who fondly remember them continue to do so 3.5 spidey snacks enthralling evenings and new days dawnings out of five and regarding episode two of season five greetings harmonious

[01:16:25] slayers a bridge of dawn from introduction to parentheses eventual close parentheses raised on detra with harmony tossed in for comic relief the latter's conversation with the former over being unappreciated didn't quite hit home as harmony at least is trying to make a name for herself while dawn for now is just a bundle of zero impulse impulse control at her age i was quietly analyzing the world around me assessing risks and studiously avoiding them basically not much fun at parties

[01:16:55] what were you all like at 14 oh that's a good question beyond this pretty much just standing tara's regular inclusion into the scooby gang in short and mixing metaphors somewhat patiently awaiting dawn's other shoe to drop finally syncing up perfectly with angel it looks like team scooby's gotta do hq as well yes the magic box 3.5 gangly angling gangs bemused expos and deathly rentals out of

[01:17:22] five all right at 14 i was sort of toying with goth i was writing a lot of poetry i was very active in school stuff because school stuff gave me an opportunity to not be at home like i couldn't just like not go home

[01:17:46] but if i was in a play or i had volleyball practice or student government i could not go home and that's what i wanted more than anything else is to not be at home so that was that was 14 for me i oh gosh i

[01:18:03] looked orange because i worked at a tanning salon starting 14 15 and wearing two short abercrombie skirts and getting dress coded at school but i also i was like i was doing as much extracurricular

[01:18:26] stuff as possible trying to build up my resume for college basically that is so volleyball swimming musical theater student council national honor society like all of that anything i could do to put on a college application and studying i was studying yeah a lot oh man moving on to episode three and

[01:18:54] thank you for asking that question coffee vodka i love it oh this one's yours oh yeah episode three greetings split slayers starting to get back on board who'd have thunk it would take a double xander episode to do it it was so evocative of the enemy within star trek season one episode five that i'm glad they had the honesty to reference it starting with the demon design toth was excellent evil without being all

[01:19:20] drippy and menacing without excessive monologuing as for the xanders it remains an interesting thought experiment if you could separate out all your strong character traits from the weak who and how would you be a nightmare is how i would be finally it was good to see the beginning of the end plot progression wise of anya's and riley's place in the scooby verse not that they won't be missed especially anya but

[01:19:48] time and tide and whatnot in short a decent ep four splitting sticks handily handled firearms and menage dorks out of five menage dork is hilarious i think it would be really hard to separate my strong and weak characteristics because a lot of my strengths are also weaknesses yeah like they they're very

[01:20:13] independent not independent dependent on each other and intermeshed yeah like the way i can read people really well that's hyper vigilance which also burns me out really fast so i don't know what weak penny and strong penny would be like well in a week i mean i mean i think if if you see insecurity in certain times

[01:20:36] a weakness like that's gonna be a nightmare for all of us yeah you know if you take that aspect out and i think my impatience it's probably a weakness oh yeah i would be an absolute nightmare to deal with so you know yeah that could be bad that would be interesting yeah but i i hope it never happens

[01:21:00] that sounds horrible and so we're on to episode four greetings palpitating slayers another semi-banger with a race against time to save riley from himself on the side we've got spike and harmony back together again dawn getting her second or third message that she shouldn't exist and spike getting all nocturnal emissiony about you haven't mentioned joyce over much as she's played a supporting role at best but

[01:21:28] still great to see her not much to speak of otherwise with most of the micro happenings feeling like packing peanuts around the main events that's a great metaphor i could have sworn this was the episode where spike lost the chip but faulty memory aside it seems like it'll happen sooner rather than later till next time four obvious taps tender tara tarot readings and serial killers out of five

[01:21:50] nice nice now for episode five greetings magic shop slayers so little sis is a mystical key not sure i stuck around long enough to have found that out back when but better late than never with the key in the slayer's protective pocket that most likely makes glory the big bad for the season not a huge fan so far but she's tons better than adam agreed that is true beyond this nice to see a successful if

[01:22:20] tired giles and unemployed anya not so happy to see joyce's continuing decline by foreshadowing her illness as a mortal malady rather than cosmically caused it rules out a supernatural cure which you know sucks for expository monks peeping spikes and red dress devils out of five nice that brings us to

[01:22:46] episode six greetings belonging slayers ever since i can remember the righteous have irked me right on particularly tradcore making this so far the episode with the most affecting threat of the season outside of the main danger of tara's family long may they have to make their own pancakes the relatively tamer marrow suckers were a great plot pusher opening up her secret fear and finally gaining her full acceptance of the

[01:23:16] scooby gang for such an uncomplicated ep it ran deep and i enjoyed every moment of it my one complaint is the production team wussing out and not allowing tara and willow their birthday dance kiss in one of the most touching scenes of the series beyond this near perfection and a rare five five mundane clown posses little louses on the prairie and bronze returns out of five very nice make their own pancakes is a

[01:23:43] great insult so so minor but you you know that they would hate it yeah oh man and now for episode seven greetings affluent slayers a great unexpected closure to angel 207 where i'd felt more than a little cheated at spike killing a slayer off screen it was good to see him portrayed not just as a punching bag or

[01:24:09] comic relief but as a viable threat the restraint to not show his probable drinking and disposing of cecily was a nice artistic touch and his explanation to buffy as to how he defeated two slayers profound lending him an aura of malevolence this followed by despair when laid low once again by old wounding

[01:24:31] words a great performance by james marsters capped with that empathic ending no notes five drew crimes lost translations and high stakes out of five high praise and i agree yes really fantastic episode great one and then finally this episode greetings awaiting slayers the episode starring the

[01:24:56] wait for and weight of eventual loss with a healthy helping of a creature equal parts practical early cgi and harryhausen with little to none of anything else i could stop right there however much just a bridge to upcoming events an emotionally charged well-produced one and would you look at that all caught up four religious dregs shaky snakes slash fervent serpents and dawning realizations out of

[01:25:22] five peace and take care coffee and vodka and we're so happy to have you back so happy that you're all caught up we missed you we really did and as usual your feedback is so well written and witty and you asked some interesting questions and thank you just keep them coming we those are eight entries for poly pocket yeah that's true you get eight we also heard from my friend karen via voicemail

[01:25:51] yay karen hey still slaying it's karen just a quick uh bit for uh the shadow episode which is you know all all sad and stuff with buffy's mom and um but i the only thing i really want to say is man did i get taken out of it with the you know sort of bad animatronic and then sort of cgi-ish

[01:26:20] fight or whatever that was um with buffy and the snake demon i was like oh my gosh i really wonder if you know 26 years ago i was like i was like wow that's just some terrible effects or if i just went along with it who knows can't remember but boy is it just painfully bad right now um i think we've been

[01:26:41] a little spoiled with our special effects but um otherwise a pretty well done episode um although i surprised buffy wasn't just searching for the snake thing right away but anyway yeah we know where this goes uh i will just stop there and hopefully we'll have more to say for another episode

[01:27:06] thanks karen always good to hear from you and i think also that the bad snake effects didn't look as bad on my old 30 inch tube tv as they look on my giant 80 inch plasma oh i thought that was way worse on your tv oh my gosh yeah that's fair that is fair yeah i i've very significantly upgraded my

[01:27:30] television watching setup in the in the last 25 years so um the problem is like and even just the episodes in general don't look as good because they're they were shot most of them at this point we're still in standard definition i think the hd shift happens for season six and they tell they look bad they look dramatically better oh man that's funny all right that is the end of the main section of

[01:27:58] the podcast so you should stay tuned for the watchers diaries if you want to hear some spoilery talk and if you'd like to join the conversation you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com and in the show notes for each episode also at podcastica.com you'll find links to our social media pages and all of our other shows so what are you watching reading or listening to

[01:28:21] lately oh man i just finished um season two of dark matter on apple tv it's great it's so good i i loved the book i read the book a few years ago and so i was super excited when they announced that they were coming out with a series and that it was going to be apple because i was like oh good it'll be good

[01:28:43] most likely and season two was you know very different it's not something that was in the book the book plot ended with season one and this season was a really fascinating exploration of i don't want to spoil anything for people who haven't seen it but it it is a fantastic show i highly recommend it and i have been thinking about it and ruminating about the finale ever since

[01:29:13] i watched it so i need to find something else now it's it's rings of power season it is rings of power comes back november 11th like i said they're dropping four episodes on november 11th which is i don't know why they do this i hate it it makes it so hard for podcasters but that is coming back vision quest is happening right now and i'm i'm really enjoying it i think it's very very good i wish i had time to podcast about it because it's really good i should watch that because i

[01:29:42] watched wandavision and loved it without really knowing anything yeah about the marvel universe so i should give that a try it's really great things it's really good um i blew through crystal lake in two days oh yeah i watched yeah i've got to watch that and our friends at what's on tonight are covering crystal lake so i've been listening to them and um yeah rings of power i watched i re-watched all of

[01:30:09] season one and two and listened back to our coverage of season one and two over on the cast of the rings to get ready for season three and um i'm pretty excited about it sweet that's gonna be so much fun and we thank you all both you and and one oh and we're adding veronica this year to season three yeah oh that'll be good because i cannot understand that show sometimes for the life of me without

[01:30:37] y'all's podcast it's like game of thrones all over again it's dense it is a very dense show it's beautiful it's so pretty it really is very excited about they're going to different locations this season that we haven't seen yet i'm thrilled that'll be awesome and of course listeners if you like what we do give us a five star rating a review or like follow and subscribe

[01:31:01] and tune in next time we'll be covering angel season two episode nine the trial that's a good one thanks everyone and am i right giles i'm almost certain you're not but to be fair i wasn't listening nice nice giles nice i love giles sassy giles is the best yeah all right that is the end of the non-spoiler section so if you want to avoid spoilers you should stop listening right now it's too

[01:31:31] bad we can't sneak a look at the watcher diaries and read up on angel i'm sure it's full of fun facts to know and tell yeah that's too bad that stuff is private also giles keeps them in his office in his personal files most importantly it would be wrong it would be wrong

[01:31:56] but it's not wrong for you to listen to us talk about spoilers as long as it's what you want so um you know i think that coffee and vodka said like this episode is a bridge between sort of the first build up eve act one of season five into the heart of season five which is anxiety about joyce building tension around joyce further descent into madness by riley build up of spike's feelings for

[01:32:24] buffy the game of keeping the secret about dawn and more and more information about glory and what she's all about the next episode what's the next episode is listening to fear oh that one also has a bad monster effect yes but okay when i saw that we'll talk more about it obviously next week but that

[01:32:53] freaking demon being on the ceiling above her in bed i had nightmares about that that is i think that is the only thing in this show that ever surfaced in a nightmare for me but for whatever reason that one just and it creeps me out think it's i'm in a brightly lit room in the middle of the day and it creeps me out thinking about it right now it's really it's terrifying because of how it's positioned too that like

[01:33:22] joyce is seeing it and talking about it but they're like oh the brain tumor is making her who's nate but no it's like there's an actual monster it's there it's really gross there's also some disturbing riley stuff that happens very and it's an intense it's an intense episode that kicks off you know the next trajectory of the season and it just you know we have a lot coming with joyce

[01:33:49] and i am not i'm not really excited to get to the body no i'm not either at all but there are some really truly great episodes coming i mean the body is one of those truly great episodes it's just that it's gonna be really hard to talk about yep and and we do not put anybody out there if you need to

[01:34:15] skip it obviously skip it it's gonna come with a lot of trigger warnings for yeah grief but up until then we've got plenty to come it is it is a truly excellent episode of television and the people who wrote and created it should be eternally proud of themselves about it really but sometimes things

[01:34:39] that are important and beautiful are also difficult and yes that's just what that is i um i would never skip it on a rewatch though it's just too no but i would maybe brace myself and get a stiff drink yes that seems fair because whoa it's it's heavy it's heavy but there's just so much i mean and glory we don't know that glory is a god yet right no okay because i'm i thought that was true and i almost

[01:35:08] said something i was like no no we don't know that yet but seeing the buildup like all re-watching i'm just like oh my gosh it's so clear that she is just beyond anything that we have experienced so far they are starting to get clues about it right they're like yes what if she predates the written word which is the dumbest reason why her name isn't in things because like it's not like she

[01:35:32] doesn't exist at the whole time of the written word if she predates it but anyway um yeah she we learned that she's a god from stupid quentin from the council in um oh yeah oh gosh but um we do have plenty of evidence at this point that glory is not your run-of-the-mill villain yeah

[01:35:57] she's very powerful and very dedicated and very insane she really is it's it's kind of it is fun to watch but she is truly out of her mind yeah but it makes sense like i don't know how a god from another dimension would behave like it doesn't go well in the stephen king universe no so why would it go well here yeah a god being like basically imprisoned in a human body like yeah she's i'd be

[01:36:25] mad too yeah yeah she's going crazy and i also i think there might be a connection between glory and ben oh yeah maybe hmm there could be something going on there something something's weird about that so i think i think we'll have to keep an eye on glory and ben and whether or not there's a connection with them we are going to meet a whole bunch more of her sycophantic minions that is true so therefore

[01:36:49] i love them they're so creepy it's perfect they are the perfect minions they're really funny she's like yep good job guys i don't even know if we ever learned the name of their demon race they're just called minions but i love them more than the stupid minions from the despicable me movies oh gosh i don't understand why those became such a thing in pop culture and i i mean my niece loves them but

[01:37:19] she's she's a baby yeah she's three but like adults love them and that's weird yeah um special but you know what there's no accounting for taste everybody you're allowed to like what you like i'm not gonna yuck your yum go ahead and love the minions love them so okay i just got one of those things everybody I wonder if anyone's who's Slay.