321 "Blood Will Have Blood" (YOU S5E2)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Podcastica! Hey everybody, I'm Rima. And I'm Pake. And this is Strange Indeed, a podcast dedicated to the Netflix show, YOU.

[00:00:23] This episode we are covering Season 5, Episode 2, Blood Will Have Blood. I'm glad that you caught that. Clearly I didn't update that where I should have. Because to add to that, apparently I need to get back in the swing of this podcasting business. Because I do have a correction for last week's episode. I had written out Luckiest Man in New York as the title of Episode 1.

[00:00:53] And it was actually Luckiest Guy in New York was the title of the episode. And I have that title in my notes. I just didn't even catch it or think about it. I thought, I know what the title is. Because it's, yeah, that's it. And so, with like 100% confidence, that's what I had written down. And then had you repeat it. And I realized I was doing, or whenever I was publishing last week's episode the other day.

[00:01:20] And I was like, oh my gosh, you dummy. So I immediately added the correction. And I added the correction without then updating this week's title. So, thanks, Mike, for catching that. I'll get it together eventually, I swear. So, Blood Will Have Blood. What are your general thoughts about the second episode this week? Um, man, I think, yeah, I liked it.

[00:01:48] There was definitely some really infuriating things. There was some really good moments and heartwarming things as well. Yeah, it's just, we're barreling down like this final season just knowing like what's, what's the other shoe that's going to drop in so many different situations. Uh, where, yeah, um, without getting into the, the points of conversation too much, it's, it's, yeah, one of those things where like this season we're really gonna see like,

[00:02:16] oh, Joe thought he had it all together and we're gonna watch him just fall apart once he gets the, like, simplest, like, taste of like, the old me, you, you know, kind of stuff that he's, yeah, um, he does not have it together the way he thinks he does or thinks he should. So, yeah, it's, it's gonna be a messy ride, I think, but it's gonna be fun. I, I agree. I think we're, I, I liked it too.

[00:02:42] I thought it was a, a good episode, some good, good one-liners and gives us some new people to hate. I mean, we already had feelings on Reagan, right? But man, she, her, her actions and words this episode. So, you know, I'm like, you know, she might take the cake for me as being just the, like,

[00:03:09] the worst person that we've encountered, um, in the series so far. She's, she's pretty awful, but entertaining, entertaining to watch, you know, uh, it's, it's just one of those good love to hate characters. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, I think, gonna be quite a ride for this final, final season of, you know, for Joe as he continues to spiral. Yeah.

[00:03:33] He's definitely stepping into dangerous territory with everything he's doing so far. Oh, sure. Well, with, with that, because, you know, I, I know we'll, we feel like we want to get into some points. So let's, let's do that. Let's go ahead and, and get into your first point for the evening. All right. Um, I don't know what was maybe like one of the, I don't want to say cringiest, but like

[00:04:02] one of just like the most intense and like, Oh, moments of this whole episode is also, I kind of titled it after one of the cringiest and hardest to watch episodes of The Office for the fans that know it's dinner party. Hey, um, you know, you're so right. Super. Let's this, this is use dinner party. Uh, so yeah, just talk about that a little bit.

[00:04:29] Of course we can get into the specifics of why it happened as far as Henry and his whole incident and what's going on with him. I've got more thoughts about that separately, but, but overall, you know, Kate's deciding to have this little, I don't want to say party is not necessarily what this is, but yeah, a dinner inviting, uh, Reagan and her husband Harrison over. Thought maybe Gretchen, their daughter was going to come too, but then I was just like, she's been mutilated.

[00:04:59] She's been maimed. How could she go out in public? Right. It's hideous. Um, so yeah, but, uh, Kate's having Reagan over to try to smooth. The Harry Gretchen or Henry Gretchen situation over. Keep the boy from being expelled, doing whatever she can is damage control. But, and as you mentioned, like, yeah, we really learned how just awful, awful Reagan is.

[00:05:27] And this scene sequence, these moments really just show this. Like, she's just awful. Like, just vindictive. Uh, you know, this is an uphill battle from the start. She, of course, yeah, brings her husband along, her ex-NFL football player husband. Also, her twin sister Maddie is there as backup to kind of help, you know, gang up on Kate and twist the knives in different ways.

[00:05:56] But, Kate and Joe do have Teddy on their side. They made sure to bring him along, too, just so they're not so outnumbered. Yeah, good choice. Which was nice. Also, Maddie brings along her, uh, boy toy, Kenton. Which, I just feel bad for him. I was like, poor Kenton. He's just stumbling right into the middle of some major rich family drama. Fighting, arguing, threats, murder accusations. He's like, should I be here? Should I leave?

[00:06:24] I was going to say, like, all I could think of was, like, Kenton's, like, the eyeballs emoji. You know, as he's sitting there at the table. Like, everybody's, like, pointing fingers at each other. And Reagan's going off about all these accusations and wanting apologies, like you said. And then accusing Kate of murder. And he, you know, he's just like, what's going through this guy's head? Like, he's like, man, I just came for the food, you know? I don't know if I should be here.

[00:06:51] I'm hearing things that could put me, like, as, like, collateral damage to something. I don't, yeah. I don't know if I, the things I'm hearing right now put me in danger? Maybe? I don't know. Yeah. Um, and then I didn't really catch it on the first watch. But then with the revelation we get at the end of the episode, or near the end of the episode, I did pick up on it a little bit more this time. Harrison kind of making eyes at and looking at Maddie across the table. I was like, okay, I caught it this time.

[00:07:20] Should have caught it the first time, but I really didn't. I totally missed it, too. Second watch, I picked up when she leaned over to kiss Kenton. After she kissed him, she then locked eyes at Harrison, and Harrison was looking back at her. I totally missed it first. First watch, too. It wasn't until after. So, yeah. This show, I must be losing my edge, because this show is catching me on things. We'll talk more about some other things that have caught me off guard and have gotten by me. But, yeah, I miss that, too.

[00:07:50] Yeah. Kate has this plan, this idea that she suggests, oh, family trip. We'll go out to the house in the Hamptons. And I was like, no, we did the big isolated house idea in season four. Let's not do that again, please. Don't take the whole... It's like, I'm good. We saw how well that worked out with Joe being in this giant mansion with a bunch of people that he despises. Let's not do that again.

[00:08:15] But, yeah, we just see how bad Reagan really sucks in this scene a lot. Because she doesn't care about Henry's well-being at all. Like, she's gonna, you know, act like, oh, Kate and Joe are such terrible parents and try to really put the grief and guilt on them and play those cards. But it's like, you know, the poor boy, you know, you should have put him into therapy the second that, you know, you got him back and blah, blah, blah.

[00:08:43] And, yeah, she doesn't care about his well-being. In fact, she's reveling in the idea of ruining this kid's life. She doesn't care at all. But, I will say, the therapy thing, when she brings that up, I was like, she's not wrong. You know, even a broken clock thrown in a dumpster full of dirty diapers is right twice a day. So, yeah.

[00:09:08] The one thing I'll not even give her credit for, but be like, okay, she is right about that. Like, that poor boy should have been put in there. Should be seeing somebody and talking to somebody. Because he has got so much trauma. Even if he doesn't realize it. Like, just the nature of his life so far. I was like, yeah, like, just give him a place to, like, just check on him. Make sure he's okay. Make sure he's balanced. Um, but yeah.

[00:09:37] The dinner itself was interesting. Especially the accusations and stuff start coming along. And then Teddy, which was very interesting, stepping in and lying to Reagan. Saying that, oh yeah, I saw the security footage of Bob's death. Which we know it's like, well, clearly he didn't because there wasn't any. Joe pointed out in the first episode that the cameras and everything were off. But also, if he would have seen it, he would have known more about Joe. So, uh, but Teddy says that he saw it. And then of course, how fucking convenient, right?

[00:10:06] They're like, oh, I erased it. Nobody needs to see that. But he's just giving Kate some backup. Because he's fully on her side. Like, he hates Reagan as much as Kate and Joe do, honestly. So he's, whatever he can do to throw a wrench in her plans a little bit. And put her on a different, you know, path if she's sniffing around. Just like, oh no, I saw it. It's fine. Why are you throwing that accusation around? But yeah, we see... She's got no intention of saying things right. She's just...

[00:10:35] Joe says, you know, oh, she's not going to stop until we're groveling at our feet. But even then, he says, I want you to apologize. And say that everything that he did is because your failure as a parent and all that. She's just... Whatever power trip she can go on over them. And she's gunning for Kate's job. So really, it's just like... Okay, now that I've humiliated you in front of the family. Now let's cut to the chase of what I really want. Which is just to push you out. Anyway. And then she just says some horrific things about Kate, Joe, even Henry.

[00:11:05] To the point that, like, what happens next. I was like, you know what? Good shot, kid. She deserved it. Butter knife to the temple. I was like, bullseye. 100 points for Henry. New record. High score. Even Joe can't be mad at him. He's like, a part of me wants to be like, no, you can't do that. But also the part of me is like, fuck that bitch. I don't care. You know, in the context of the show, I would not condone this in real life by any means. But in the context of the show, I was rooting for Henry. Yeah. So it's like, yes.

[00:11:34] Good shot. Great aim. Yeah. Reagan's special. Sign that kid up for something. I don't know. Knife throwing skills like that can be used in something. But he's got a gift. Yes, he does. Good aim. Yeah. Reagan's a special kind of see you next Tuesday in this series.

[00:12:01] And yeah, Teddy, I think, is a real one for coming up on the fly. Like, you know, hey, nice try. But, you know, got the security footage and, you know, everything checks out. You know, that's how everything happened. So that was a nice call out. You know, I think Kate was spot on when she's like, you know, we can trust Teddy.

[00:12:26] Because his, you know, as he called out like last week's episode, you know, it impacts him too. If Kate's gone, he is too. And I think Ray has seen now that Bob is gone, like whatever Bob had planned with, you know, we know what he had planned. It sounds like she didn't.

[00:12:47] And so he knew she knew he had something cooking, but didn't know what the details were, just that it would be something, I guess, enough to oust her as CEO and bump them up into that spot. And I think she's like, well, that fell through. Bob is gone. She's finding another way to do it. But also just getting very personal, you know, with the whole thing. Like, you know, I think they're right.

[00:13:17] Henry definitely needs therapy. I'm surprised they didn't already have something set up for him. I mean, it definitely rocks a kid's world to be destabilized, you know, in the way that he was. And I feel like there, I know that there was a three-year time jump from where we left off in season four to where we're starting off in season five. But I still feel like I'm not clear on how old Henry is.

[00:13:47] The kid seems to be like seven or eight at the minimum kind of age. And I'm like, how long was Joe gone from the time he jumped off Henry? He was an infant in a car seat. You know, he was still very small. And then all of a sudden he's this, like, again, seven or eight-year-old. I'm like, if he was even five, I could maybe buy it. But he seems to talk and just, like, he's reading The Hobbit.

[00:14:14] I just kind of five-year-old read and comprehend The Hobbit. Yeah, we don't really have a gauge of that. Yeah, the three-year time jump between four and five. But then, yeah, I'm trying to remember, because I didn't rewatch four. It was just, like, the recap stuff as far as did we get an exact time frame of, like, how long it took him to get settled in with London and become Jonathan Moore and all that.

[00:14:42] Like, if it was, like, very immediate or if there was some kind of, like, time that we skipped over between three and four also. I'm not sure. I don't remember. Yeah. I don't know that they got very specific with that time either. And I don't want to dwell on it too long or anything. It just keeps sticking in my head, like, okay, how long was he away? Because this kid seems a lot older. But either way, they're formative years. Like, the therapist at the school was saying, you know, these are kind of formative years.

[00:15:11] And then being disrupted and pulled out of, you know, because I would hope, anyway, the couple that he left, I can't remember their names. But I remember that. I know Dante was the guy that worked with him at the library. I don't remember his husband's name. But, you know, they seem like good people, you know, some of the few good people that we met during that season. So I want to believe that they gave him a good home life.

[00:15:42] But then to be pulled from that and then – so anyway, my point being that I agree that that kid probably needs some therapy even before any of this happened, right? They probably shouldn't have met some. So I agree with that. But, yeah, just the age thing was really kind of sticking out to me because I'm like, I'm just not getting it. I don't know. But whatever.

[00:16:02] But the whole dinner party was certainly, you know, I think they had a vision, or at least Kate did, to kind of, you know, show some unity in the family. And, you know, and then instead it just turned into, you know, this slinging accusations and resentment and then humiliating Joe and Kate in front of – not really public, but at least in front of other people. I mean, who's this Kent guy?

[00:16:32] Like, again, like he's like, what am I witness to right now? You know, all of this going on. And I think this whole thing really just reinforces for Joe his outsider status. I think it just feeds into his paranoia, you know, getting into this battle with her family.

[00:16:53] It's just they're so toxic and there's this entitlement superiority and this judgment, especially towards Joe, you know, that Reagan keeps bringing up. And I really think that, you know, Joe's feeling like he can't – I think this is why he was really starting to spiral a little bit in this episode. He's really feeling like he can't control this environment or the narrative right now.

[00:17:18] And he's just – it's kind of really bringing out his emotional instability, it feels like. Yeah. That dinner party. It was funny. If anyone gets a chance, if you haven't already, Netflix has like a five-minute behind-the-scenes for each episode. And I caught the one for – yeah, it's just a fun little look into. There's a clip of when they were throwing the knife at Reagan. It's actually a producer on the side.

[00:17:48] You know, you don't see him, obviously. But instead of like having Henry – like Henry, I think, flings it, but it's not like at a person. But the one that actually hits Reagan, it's like this producer just kind of flinging, like tossing the knife. It's just a funny kind of shot, this producer off camera trying to fling this kid in the butternut at her head. It's just funny. I have to call it out so everyone else can go enjoy. Oh, yeah. Enjoy that clip. It was entertaining.

[00:18:18] Yeah, that's a good one. That dinner party. Damn. No, thank you. This is why we just shouldn't have dinners with family. You know, Joe made a funny comment like this is why we only have them at like funerals and what, holidays or something. Yeah. Or funny. Well, I thought we'd just talk about the reopening of Moonies. It's kind of where the episode kicks off. When it starts.

[00:18:47] First, I'll just say that I loved the Interview with the Vampire book series reference. Big fan. Right off the top. Yeah. So I appreciated that. But, you know, we talked about last week, you know, how Moonies, you know, it kind of brings it all back to where it began. But we have to remember, like, this is where Joe was. He was raised. He was abused.

[00:19:18] And I feel like his actions reopening this store. It's. It's returning to the space, not just like physically to this location. But also, I think it's taken him back to this headspace, the space that shaped him into what into what he is. Yeah.

[00:19:39] So it's like this regression, I think, for him, symbolically, you know, this reopening. And it's, I feel like, I think he sees it as something good. I think he sees it as something like therapeutic to kind of rewrite his narrative. But I think he's making, I think it's all a relapse. I don't, I don't think he's truly healing himself like he thinks that he is.

[00:20:08] He's just surrounding himself with all of these triggers. And he thinks that he's moving forward. You know, you could see how he acted with, I don't know, we'll talk more about Bronte, but like in the basement with Bronte, after she was caught in the cage and he's, after he had let her out and he kind of snapped at her.

[00:20:31] You know, and it's like, oh, he's, he's, he's certainly having his moments. And we've seen it. It's not like it's the first time Joe's ever done this ever in the series. But I just feel like I'm like, this is probably not as good as what he thinks it is for him being back in this bookstore around all those things. And he was talking about how Mooney made him sleep on that floor, you know, and we've seen flashbacks to, to that, you know, abuse before.

[00:20:56] So I really think he's said it multiple times, Joe likes to, or doesn't like, but he lies to himself. And I think that's what he's doing here. He thinks this is good for him and it's not. And Joe definitely, I don't think has changed. You know, I feel like his, his violence is just under the surface. And yeah, it's just, he's just suppressed it for a little while. He's not truly changed.

[00:21:26] Yeah. He'll put on that little mask, but he's, I mean, he's honestly, he's looking for any excuse to let it out, to let it bubble over. Mm-hmm. Agree. So yeah, that's, you know, as much as I love seeing Mooney's again, because I just, I think just, you know, on the outside, it's, you know, I love the idea of a beautiful old used bookstore, but not good for Joe. No. What's your next point?

[00:21:58] All right. I think I mentioned it a little bit earlier, but yeah, I'll go talk more about Henry himself and then also just like Joe's relationship with him. Mm-hmm. Uh, which yeah, the, the situation that's at the center of this episode is again, Henry punching his cousin in the face, Gretchen, Regan's daughter. Um, and we learn over the course of the episode, it's because Gretchen overheard her mother calling Henry's mother a killer.

[00:22:26] Uh, and, and Henry not enjoying being teased about that and having that kind of stuff said constantly around him. Uh, and Joe assumes at first that they're referring to love, but no, again, at the dinner party, we get the, the confirmation in that conversation that, uh, no, Regan was like, oh, we're not talking. I wasn't talking about love Quinn. Um, I'm talking about Katie. Yeah. Regan suspects Kate of having something to do with uncle Bob's death.

[00:22:54] And she's saying that in front of her daughter who is then repeating that to Henry and kids at school. And so Henry lashed out kind of in defense of his parents. And then we, yeah, we get the school counselor therapist scene, which Joe gets very defensive and bristly about everything that she has to say about his past.

[00:23:18] And then Henry's home life and past and trauma and things like that, because he's in this place where he cannot accept the thought of any of his darkness or anything affecting Henry at all. Like, no, Henry's a good kid. Henry's not me. He's not, you know, this, that he's, he's fine. I've taught him well. I've raised him well.

[00:23:39] And he's especially perturbed by the idea of his son being called violent because that's the battle he's raged with himself his whole life is his violence. And being known as a violent person when he's able to justify and lie to himself and tell himself, no, I'm protective. I help people. You know, that line even comes back up whenever he's giving Bronte the apartment where he was just like, she's a girl who needs help.

[00:24:08] And I help people. That's what I do. And I was like, sure, Joe, you keep telling yourself that. Yeah, that's all he does. That's all he does. But yeah, so just the idea that somebody not even saying that his son is a violent person, but considering the fact that there could be violence in him or like, we just want to make sure that he's not having these issues. Joe is immediately shutting those things down. And it like it feels like a personal attack to him and a personal.

[00:24:35] So that's what makes him hate Reagan even more is Reagan saying the exact things he's already worried about is, am I failing as a father? And so with Reagan to sit there and say, you are, that's only going to like stoke his fire even more. I did like the little moment where, you know, he's talking to Henry at the bookstore at Mooney's and he's just like, you know, you want to tell me what happened? And like any kid, you see Henry's just like, I don't know because I don't want to be like, I'm already suspended. You know, I don't want to.

[00:25:04] And the way he's just like, you know, I promise I won't be upset. Two seconds later in her monologue, what the fuck? Which was great. Not upset at Henry, but yeah, definitely what Henry had to say definitely made him mad. But again, that's about what Gretchen had said because of what Reagan had said. And then he has that thought because he thinks they're talking about love that he knows he has to tell Henry the truth.

[00:25:31] And that's in big quotation marks because that's about love because it's not really the truth. We saw how those things all played out, but he has to continue on the story that no, she was the one who was troubled. She's the one that was sick. She's the one that was violent and had a problem. And I had to make a choice. But yeah, but even that version of the truth, he knows he has to tell Henry someday, but not now, which.

[00:26:00] I tend to agree with him. You don't want to lie to the kid, but also however old Henry is. And we had that conversation about like, we're not really sure he's in this bubble somewhere. That does seem like a conversation for like at least a teenager. Like you have to be like, let's make sure he's got some kind of like mental maturity to understand these kind of things before you drop that on him. Yeah. Age appropriate truth is what he should be seeking. Yeah.

[00:26:30] I agree. Probably not good to go down the whole path of everything love did. Yeah. But I do like how I'm jumping to like the end of the episode, but the way he does handle it because he does say, yeah, what I told you about, you know, what Gretchen said wasn't true. Even though they learned that Gretchen wasn't talking about love in the first place, but he's, he's like, I told you that that wasn't true about love. And he's like, and I lied to you. He's like, I wasn't truthful.

[00:27:00] And he's like, so he gives him again, a more age appropriate version of it, of like people do certain things. And I liked that conversation that he was like, let me be as honest with you as is, you know, appropriate right now. Which was good. And I liked that they had that conversation, which is frustrating in its own way. Cause I was like, why does Joe have to be such an incredible father?

[00:27:25] I mean, for the most part, if you take all the serial killer stuff out of it, but like just specifically his relationship with Henry, it's like he loves his son deeply and is very great to him. And like, he's, he is the kind of the image of a father. You would want a child to have in that specific instance.

[00:27:45] If you just, you know, not the killing and the sociopathic tendencies and all of this stuff, if you take, but minus in that very general sense of how he fathers Henry specifically, you're like, why is he so good at that though? Like if only that could have been the Joe Goldberg that existed, we wouldn't have a show at all. But you know, it's like, man, in a, in a better world and a better universe that like he would have been such an incredible father and incredible person.

[00:28:14] Yeah. Minus all of the, uh, psychological problems and sociopathic killing that Joe, Joe has. Yeah. He's a really good dad. You know, it's, I think just makes some of this so much more tragic now that Henry is back in his life because it's like, oh, now there's another little human involved, you know?

[00:28:40] Um, yeah, that can be impacted in a negative way by Joe and his actions. Cause I just feel like whatever happens, it's not going to be good. And so if Joe has a really bad ending, that's going to be, you know, be bad for Henry. Yeah. That's, that sucks.

[00:29:00] Yeah. Cause you, we, we feel like with this final season, like it can't end happily ever after for Joe Goldberg. Like that just doesn't feel honest for the show. So it's like, he's got to have his comeuppance in some way, but then it is sad. Cause you're like, cause Henry's such a good kid and he doesn't deserve to lose his father in whatever way that that, that comes about, you know?

[00:29:22] Like, yeah, it's, it's going to mean terrible things for him. Uh, but yeah, I loved Joe's arc even in this episode when he's talking with Kate, you know, about like, we'll kill Reagan. We'll do this stuff. And then Kate's pretty adamant. She's just like, we're going to keep things above board. We're going to use lawyers. We're going to do things the right way.

[00:29:41] And then when she mentions therapy for Henry as well, that Joe just snaps on her for a second too. Oh, you, you agree with Reagan. You agree with your sister. And you know what causes kids to be violent is when their parents, the people that are supposed to be there for them, turn their backs on them. And he has this whole, just very adamant anti like, no, he doesn't need therapy. He needs this. And I was like, no, she's not wrong. Again, like, like Reagan said, it's, I mean, this poor baby's got so much trauma to unpack.

[00:30:11] And you've got to let him have that in some outlet. Um, and so as a viewer, that was frustrating to me, even though yet Henry's a fictional child, but I still feel invested. So I'm like, that's a good show. We'll make you do to where I'm like, Oh, like this kid needs something like that. Why would, you know, it, and the long laundry list of reasons that you would view Joe Goldberg in a negative light. This is maybe one of the tamer ones, but it's still like hard to be like, no, why are you being that way about it?

[00:30:41] So it was a good arc where you see him come to terms at the end of that, where, when they're sitting on Henry's bed together and he's asking him, would you like to talk to somebody to see a professional, have somebody to talk to that you can, it really made my heart happy. I was like, okay, there we go. Like that's, he is seeing the importance in that. Yeah, I, I agree. I, I think that maybe Joe was like their clash with the therapy idea.

[00:31:08] He was seeing therapy as like either exposing the family or maybe admitting failure and Kate saw it as healing. And I think because Joe is not comfortable with vulnerability, even when it comes to, to Henry, I think that is maybe why he disagreed with it so much.

[00:31:40] Mm-hmm. And just to unpack everything that's happened to him as a child and then what's happened since. Yes. And, you know, thinking though, Joe keeps having this internal monologue thinking, you know, is, is there something, you know, is he getting any of those tendencies from me? Is it something I have passed down like genetically? And he keeps thinking it's him, but I'm like, have you ever thought that he is love's son too?

[00:32:11] Mm-hmm. Like maybe he could have inherited something from her? Not, it's not all about you, Joe. You know, love was not, you know, sunshine and rainbows. Yeah. The, the Quinn part of him is not squeaky clean either. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know, just something, something to think about that, you know, that boy probably does need all of his help or all the help that he can get, you know.

[00:32:39] And then, you know, we've, we've talked a lot about nature versus nurture, you know, too. So, how much, how much of that comes, you know, that behavior from nature? Is it something that's passed on potentially? Is it, you know, your environment? You know, how you're, how you're raised, the things that happen to you? You know, we've talked a lot about that.

[00:33:02] So, definitely things that can, I think therapy can, can help. And, you know, about all of this, you know, and his aggression and violence towards Reagan, breaking her nose, you know, not a good thing. Not a good thing.

[00:33:43] Mm-hmm. It was mentioned by the counselor or whatever. It's like, if Reagan decides to press charges, quote unquote, then like, he'll have to be expelled. But yeah, I was like, what, what charges do you hold on? Because it's not even, yeah, like, yeah, I don't know exactly how all that works. Because you're like, I mean, yeah, you can, you can press like criminal charges on a minor. There's like a whole like juvenile thing for that.

[00:34:08] Yeah. But at that age for such a minor infraction, it's like, I don't know what all you can actually really do about that other than just, I mean, an expulsion could end up happening if this school is as strict and, you know, everything that it seems like it is. But actual like legal repercussions on like a seven-year-old. Yeah, I don't know if that sticks anywhere. That was just like, sounded so bizarre to me. Right.

[00:34:37] But Reagan, she's just, she's awful anyway. If anybody would try to legally destroy a seven-year-old, it would be Reagan. Way to go, Reagan. Bully a child. Yep. Congrats. Yeah, she's awful. Okay, well, let's, I was just adding, Henry was one of my points too, so I was just adding a little additional thought there to what you were saying.

[00:35:05] All good things. Did you have any, anything else you wanted to say about Henry or? That's it. I think I've got it. Okay. Well, let's, let's talk a little about Bronte. All right. So I know one of my first thoughts is I'm watching this episode play out. I keep wondering why Joe makes things worse for himself.

[00:35:30] Like it happens every season and, you know, it's like, is he going to learn this season? Nope. He just, of course not because we wouldn't be here, I guess. It'd be a very boring season. But he just keeps falling back into the same pattern of self-destruction and self-sabotage. Like he just cannot help it.

[00:35:58] But the basement, the basement has, has come up again. And we knew it would because we can't be at Mooney's without the basement coming up. Yeah. And Bronte's curiosity about the basement. I mean, we knew she was going to try to get into the basement. Oh, I know. Joe should have known. You got to know better. Telling her to stay out of the basement all but completely guarantees that she definitely is not going to stay out of the basement. 100%. 100%. I also didn't know you could learn to pick locks on YouTube.

[00:36:27] Right? I don't know if that was her first try, but that was a pretty good first try. I don't think the tutorial wasn't even like halfway done. And she's like, oh, I got it figured out. Cool. I know. I'm like, the dude's still talking and she's already got it done. I don't know if she's got a knack for it or what. But, you know, so she does discover the basement.

[00:36:48] I don't know that she – I know she was taken aback by it, but I don't know that she initially thought, oh, he keeps people locked up in here. Or, you know, it's almost like she – at least later on in her explanation to Joe was, you know, oh, I kind of thought that this is where all the rare books, you know, were hidden. And she was right. That is what it was for. Yeah. She's still very sus.

[00:37:17] I'm not sure what to buy. Because she does later on admit to Joe. She's like, okay, I actually do know a lot more about who you are and I followed your story. She read the Conrad's book, the caging thing that they did about being locked in Love Quinn's, again, quote unquote, cage, knowing that, like, Joe is connected to this whole locking people in cages and torturing them thing.

[00:37:43] So whenever she gets down there and sees the cage, that, like, initial, oh, shit, wasn't just the look at all these books. It really was like a, oh, the cage that I've read about of people being tortured in. There's one right there connected to the person that is connected to that story in one instance or another. I was like, what is he doing with one here? Of course. Who knows what in that book? I mean, the Conrad's had no idea that the cage stemmed from the original one that was in Mooney's.

[00:38:11] So she didn't have that information. So Joe's able to cover that up pretty easily by being like, by telling her the truth and being like, well, partially the truth. The lie part of it, he's like, yeah, Love got the idea from me because of what Mr. Mooney used to do to me. And so she took my childhood trauma and used it against people. That part's not true. But the part of at least that original cage being there because of Mr. Mooney and stuff, that part was true. He literally said it was like, yeah, it was.

[00:38:40] That one has been there forever. That's not a new thing that I just built for you. Like, that's not a thing. Yeah. And her spending some time there, she reads his pages, which he did not carefully lock up or burn. So she knows that those pages exist or that he's written these stories.

[00:39:09] And I feel like, yes, this basement is a physical location. The cage is a physical thing. But it's not just what she broke into as a physical. I think she's also kind of getting into Joe's psychological basement. She's gotten kind of exposed like one of the darkest parts that he hides from the world and honestly from himself. Yeah.

[00:39:38] And she keeps pressing him, you know, and you could just see like Penn Badgley did such a good job in this episode. Like, I don't know if you noticed that when he kind of snapped at her, he had this vein just popping out. I don't know what he does to get into like a headspace to emote like that and to, you know, just do such a great job in that role.

[00:40:07] But, I mean, I saw that vein of popping and I was like, dang, Penn Badgley, you're locked in to this scene. That's for sure. So, you know, she keeps pressing him and pressing him. And then he just, his internal pressure just kind of keeps building. And then he snapped. And so, I don't know. I think she's sus too.

[00:40:32] I still like her whole story, got some buyers for a book, helps me with my debt, gets my play picked up. But there's still something off about her. I still don't know that I believe that. Right. It feels like, yeah, it feels like a lot of the things she's doing is very pointed, like trying to get under his skin, like that she's done research on him.

[00:40:56] Like, and it's just kind of assumptions, but like, it seems like she knows how he can't stand like the vapid kind of stuff. So she's got this personality, a very, it's giving Edgar Allan Poe post-Minty B. I was like, that's quite a sentence. Interesting quote. But yeah, where she just seems very just like, acts kind of like the young hip people that like drive him crazy.

[00:41:21] And also just this constantly digging at him throughout the episode, getting more and more under his skin with references and jabs at him being, oh, the rich guy who feels above the lower class people. And he'll never understand our problems. And it was like, is she just that way? Or is it on purpose for an ulterior motive? Does she know more than it seems? And she's testing him or something. She's just trying to get him to crack to see that underneath of like, she knows more about his past, knows more about who he is.

[00:41:49] And it's like, if I can keep picking at him and being like, oh, oh, Mr. Rich guy, Mr. Rich guy, can I finally get him to put that mask down? Like he does when he snaps later on, where he basically does reveal to her that like, oh, I was, you know, living in this bookshop and sleeping in the cage and being. To where she's, she's seeing those kind of parts of him. And I don't know, it's, it's the way that like after that, where she just says, oh, I'm sorry, but it's nice to meet the real you.

[00:42:16] The way she said that, it's like, what is, yeah, what's going on here? Mm-hmm. I agree. I agree. I'm like, there's something about her saying that, you know, it's like off, off times she can like, okay, she's just completely clueless. She's trying to take her at face value. But then she says something that sets, sets off a little alarm in my head. And that was, that was what she said this episode for me.

[00:42:45] That's the big one. And again, because it, it can be played off as that's just her personality and it's the kind of the way she is. And you could buy that, but then it's like, or is she particularly choosing words? Like even when Joe brings Henry into the store and the first thing she does when she sees Henry is, oh, who's this lady killer? And the way like Joe jokes about it in his inner monologue is like unfortunate turn of phrase, but it's like, was it though? Like, what does she know is.

[00:43:11] Well, and, and following along with that, her whole little conversation with Henry about, you know, cause he was reading the Hobbit and she's like, who's your favorite character and why is it Smaug? And he's like, oh no, it's Thorin. And, and she's like, oh, well, you know, I'm, I'm paraphrasing here, but she's like, oh, I'm partial to the baddies myself. And then she eyeballs Joe. And then he's like, and of course, Joe being Joe, he starts twisting it.

[00:43:39] Like he keeps falling into this old pattern of wanting to kind of look at Bronte as you, right? It is this figure or character that he like Beck and love and everyone else. And he keeps pulling himself back. Like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not going there. But she, she kept, you know, keeps referencing like your, like she talks about that and it's like, you know, why, why did she say that?

[00:44:06] And then look at Joe and, and then like flirting back and forth, you know, it like the whole thing with the chair in the beginning, she brings in this chair that she found for free on the streets. And, you know, it, it, it's like, it's there. And then at the end, when she's in the apartment, you know, then she seems very wary of him when she says that when she's like, oh, I read that. I read their book and about the cage and, you know, and she's like, you know, I, I don't sleep with married men.

[00:44:35] And, you know, what's, you know, are there any strings attached, you know, this whole apartment thing. And so it's like, it's almost like she's questioning, which I'm like, well, that seems kind of normal, you know, because it's like, you should be a little like, seems too good to be true. What do you really want from me? You know, in, in exchange for this free apartment or whatever. But at the same time, there's still just some things that she says in an offhand kind of way that still is like, just doesn't ring, ring true to me.

[00:45:05] Yeah. Yeah. It's just, she's, she's a mystery. But I'm like, yeah, she's going to be his ultimate downfall somehow, some way. I just feel it. I'm like, because there's such a focus, even just these first two episodes, like him taking her in and allowing this connection to her. I feel like it's going to be a huge mistake in the end somehow.

[00:45:25] Like, whatever she, whether she's like an investigator and there's like all this stuff, or if it's just, she really is just some quirky, artsy, random person. Mm-hmm. But because of the way that they interact together, it's going to cause problems that he is going to end up, you know, spiraling out of. And, you know, something's gonna happen that he can't fix.

[00:45:52] Either she is sus and she's going to contribute to his downfall either because, you know, she was put there on purpose, put there in that position purposely, or Joe's just gonna do it to himself. Like I said, he's got this pattern of like self-destruction, self-sabotage because he lies to himself all the time. Yeah. That he's, he's, because he's like, oh, I want you to keep reading my work.

[00:46:20] And I'm like, dude, you know, she's already, you know, damage has already been done. And she's read all of this. Plus she knows, she's got that history of the cage from Carrie and Sherry's, was it Carrie and Sherry? Yeah. You know, their book about the cage. You know, so it doesn't take too much for people to start connecting those dots or start putting things together.

[00:46:47] And then if you're going to keep feeding her more and more stories to get her feedback on, you know, on your writing or something, I'm just like, you're just asking for it. So either Joe's going to do it to himself or, or, or she will be a part of it. Yeah. He's being way too open and honest and just like trustworthy with her. Yeah. And it's not good for him. But yeah, I wasn't sure how it was going to go. So I did like, you know, of course she locks herself in the box. Of course. And sits down there for hours before he realizes to go confront her.

[00:47:16] But yeah. And I wasn't sure how that whole scene was going to go on that first watch. It was just like, this could go any direction. Cause yeah, he's pissed. He has the, you know, haven't you ever heard of a safety deposit box? And he just like barks back at her. Have you heard of following basic fucking instructions? Like you can tell he's very upset. Yeah. Well, he's fresh off that argument with Kate. They just had that disagreement about therapy and he's already pissed.

[00:47:46] And then sees the notifications on his phone and, and heads there. So he's already pissed. And then to discover Bronte. Yeah. Was not a good time for Bronte to be caught in the basement. And where she's like, are you going to let me out? And then he starts to, but then she says something else. And then like, you know, she's just like, okay, here's what I was doing. And he stops. He puts the keys back down and has that moment where he's like, what are you doing down here anyway?

[00:48:14] And it just, as she keeps talking. Yeah. You can see the wheels turning in his head considering whether he's going to let her out or not. You can see him in real time deciding things. And it's like, oh, she's in a bad spot right now. And she may not even know it. Maybe she does. But, yeah, it's, that whole, I was like, I don't know where this is going to go. Because like any word she says could, could make a choice for him. I gotta be careful.

[00:48:45] I was thinking, bye-bye Bronte. You done effed up. Because friggin' Penn Badgley, it was so good. Like you said, you could read it all over his face. You know, when he initially started putting keys into the lock to let her out, but then stops. And then just slowly his eyes just come up. And I was just like, oh, no. There's murder box, Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Does such a good job with that.

[00:49:14] With that emotional acting without saying anything at all and just acting with his face. Because I think we all had a little fear there. Like, uh-oh. He's changing his mind about letting her out. Then he does let her out. But then immediately he's like, you're fired. I never want to see your face around this shop again. And like leaves it at that. And you're like, okay. Could still be a dangerous choice, you know, concerning what she knows. Although he didn't even know that she had read the things until after she got out.

[00:49:43] And then she tells him. So it's like, oh, that's a bad time to, because you can run. I don't know. So, um. Let's see if I'm faster than you. Yeah. But then in the end, after that, he ends up calling her back in, giving her her job back, and then giving her the apartment upstairs so that she can keep reading his writing or whatever. And it's like, so part of me is wondering, is that really it?

[00:50:05] Or is there part of his self, you know, preservation, like, system that he does that he's keeping closer tabs on her? Or he's doing this also to keep her close so that if she ends up being a problem, if she is the kind of person that's going to talk to people, it's going to be an issue that, well, he knows where she's at. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:34] Like, trying to keep her close. Mm-hmm. I like that. But I wonder, and this goes, I know Bronte was my point, and I don't want to jump into my next point, but I have a suspicion in maybe why he's got Bronte, decided to change his viewpoint, call her back in, hire her back to the store, and offer her the apartment.

[00:51:05] So, I'll talk about that after, for my next point or whatever. Okay. But yeah, I don't know, whatever it is, she's definitely a variable, and I don't know, we'll see how all that plays out. Yeah. What's your next point? Oh, well, Bronte was definitely a point that I had, so I think I kind of got through all that just talking it out with you, so that was good. Okay.

[00:51:34] So really, like, the last major point that I have is, yeah, Joe's old new path. Hmm. Where, yeah, where he's at kind of through this episode, especially by the end of it. Yeah, you mentioned the interview with the vampire reference at the beginning, where he's, you know, talking about, like, you know, a lot of blood is that healing factor to him in a way that is, like, really the thing that he craves that keeps him going.

[00:52:03] And then, yeah, talking with Kate about those, his fictional, maybe not so fictional murder festos he's been typing away at. Murder festos. But, yeah, now that Bob is- His journaling, you mean? Yeah, his journaling. Yeah, now that Bob's actually dead, like, writing about the fantasy of killing him could look really bad. Kate's right when she's like, you should get rid of those. That's only going to come back to bite you.

[00:52:33] But he can't help but hold on to things. We've learned that about him. We talked about it over the weekend on our first episode. It's like, yeah, we know that he holds on to things. He's not the kind of person to just get rid of evidence because he's that kind of person. But, you know, so it's like, well, they're locked away, you know, somewhere safe. They're in the basement box where absolutely nobody will ever see them, especially not the strange redhead that keeps snooping around everywhere in the shop. Oh, wait. Shoot.

[00:53:04] Right. Why wouldn't you trust the thief in person who breaks and enters into your bookstore with, you know, not getting or getting access to the basement? Sure. Yeah. But you just see he did after Bob. It is. It's like an addiction. You see him just craving, like looking for any excuse for what's the next. What's the next that I can do? And I can say it's for protecting my family. I can say, but he's itching for it. He wants it.

[00:53:34] So, you know, his inner monologue. I like that before the dinner party, Kate's like, well, we need to have a game plan for tonight. And he's like, there's always a meat grinder. So, oh, Joe. Yeah. I'm living for Joe's inner monologue this season. It's always top tier, but they're really hitting all the marks for me this season. Yes. Yeah. And when he brings up the idea to Kate of just like, well, what have I talked to her the same way I talked to Bob? Um, and Kate starts seeing through the cracks in this episode a little bit.

[00:54:03] She's like, okay, sure. Yeah. It's about protection to some degree. But it's just like, she brings back up. It's like the way you talked about being exhilarated by it. Is there something else that you're not telling me that's, that's connected to this? Is it about, is it just about protection or is there something else? She knows. And she's as, she asks him that as if like, you know, I'll be honest with you. She knows. Yeah. Torine was like, oh, you know, she's like, you want us to kill everyone who becomes suspicious of us for the rest of our lives? Where does it end?

[00:54:33] It's like, it ends when you and me and Henry are safe. It's like, sure. Sure it does. And when, when do you decide that, that we're safe or do you continue to keep looking for more excuses? And, and yeah, she's, she's seeing through those cracks a little bit, which. Yeah. Again, he opened up to her in the hospital three years ago or whatever about like, you know, oh, I had to do this and do that and do that. But yeah, she's seeing. Okay.

[00:55:01] He told me that part, but there's also another side of him that, that is darker. That is more than just self-preservation and protecting people he cares about. Yes. I agree. And then once he, yeah, once he comes up with this idea of, well, we got to take care of Reagan, then he can't let go of it. Again, like he's just, he's not going to be deterred at that point. Even with Kate sit there straight up telling him, we'll go through lawyers. Don't do that. That's a bad idea.

[00:55:31] Let, let us figure out a different way. He's like, so what I'm hearing is she wants me to kill Reagan and then come up with a good reason to cover up and cover it up. And then she'll understand later. Like he's, he's not going to be deterred. Oh, Joe. Oh, I noticed he's like standing outside the like Lockwood offices and stuff while Reagan is getting into the building. It's like, she doesn't see him standing right there. He doesn't even have the hat. Yeah. The hat of visibility. Right.

[00:56:01] I mean, he's part of the family. It seems like he's got an office up there for whatever work he needs to do. If he's there, I don't know. So it was like, he's got reason to be there for whatever number of things, but still the fact that he's like still snooping around outside waiting to like go in after her. Uh, but yeah, he's back on his bullshit and he's just, yeah, he's like, okay, well I'll abduct her, lock up Reagan, you know, get any info I need and then make her disappear. Because Kate will totally understand and we'll all be happy.

[00:56:29] Uh, which then that whole sequence is very interesting. It was fun to watch. Uh, Joe going in to take Reagan, um, goes through one hell of a rollercoaster of emotions and thoughts, you know? Yes. This will be easy to, oh snap, someone else is going to kidnap her instead. Oh damn it, I detest her. I want her dead, but I'm going to have to step in to save her because, and let's give Joe some credit here, I guess. You know, he's a murderer, but he won't stand up for sexual assault. He draws the line somewhere. That's, that's good at least, I guess.

[00:56:59] He's got a code somewhere, you know, yeah. Yeah. But then going from that to, oh wait, it's role play. So now I'm in an even more awkward position of watching this go down to now it's my chance. Fuck it, let's do it live. Uh, just rolling with it. But there was still one very important level to that whole ordeal he did not realize at the time. Uh, yeah. He upgraded the lock to the murder basement though, so that's good.

[00:57:27] Uh, goes back and talks to Kate one more time where she's fully anti-murder now. It's like, and for good reason, she's like, for Henry, for the family, it's like, this is not who we're going to become. Like if we're, if we're making this whole point of not being failures of parents to our son, then it needs to start with us making better decisions and like realizing that we can't handle things with violence and impulse.

[00:57:54] And so again, his, his version of that is like, all right, so what I'm hearing is still definitely kill Reagan and then just make sure that the cover story is really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. And that's when Reagan calls Kate to, yeah, the pressing charges thing. And then he kind of, wait, how did she get out? What is going on? And as he's heading down there, he puts two and two together.

[00:58:20] And then especially when he gets down there and sees, he's like, cage the wrong twin. And, uh, Harrison was cheating on his wife with her twin sister, um, Maddie. So this complicates things just a little more. Okay. I have to ask, did you see the twist coming? Did I didn't? I did. Okay. Good. Cause I'm like, oh my gosh. I, okay.

[00:58:48] So they, they got me so good that I thought at the end when Reagan called Kate, I thought it was Maddie pretending to be Reagan calling Kate. It went so far that until Joe got down to the basement and she called him boo boo. Then I was like, oh, I was like, man, I didn't pick up on that at all.

[00:59:17] I'm, oh, okay. So the show totally got me. Okay. So I, yeah, I'm glad. Like, I think once, once Kate is talking to Reagan and Reagan's going off, like, I think I figured it out then I was like, well, then who is? Oh no. No, but, but as far as like, I had no thought that that was what happened when he takes, you know, Maddie that we learned down there. And even when she wakes up down there and is like, Harrison, what's going on? I had no idea at that point.

[00:59:48] I, I, they, like I said, they got me so good that I was still like, well, that can't be Reagan. She's in the basement. It's got to be Maddie pretending to be, and then, cause then I'm questioning why would Maddie pretend to be Reagan and, and, and make this call, you know? So I was like, oh wow, you really fell for it. That was a good twist.

[01:00:12] And we should have known, I feel like we should have known, you know, you can't, can't throw out the twins thing, you know, and not expect something like that. But it's going to be interesting cause it's like, you know, okay, so Maddie's stuck in the cage now. How do we explain this? How do we get around that? We know, and, and during the dinner party, she called out, she has type one diabetes. So I feel like that's going to play a role somehow.

[01:00:40] They're not going to catch me again, but, um, so we, we have to keep that in mind. I feel like that's going to come into play some somewhere, but how is Joe? Yeah. Yeah. Is he going to like somehow, yeah. Like mess with her. Yeah. Blood sugar and stuff enough to like stage something. It was like, oh no. And I found her and then this is what happened.

[01:01:04] Or yeah, there's a lot of things he could do, but also then it's like, okay, now he's killing innocence. I mean, I don't know if I would call Maddie fully innocent. She is, she was in the text thread about the vote of no confidence and ousting Kate. Like she's included, but like, yeah, from what we've seen, at least she's nowhere near as despicable as, as Reagan is. Yeah. She doesn't like Kate.

[01:01:30] It sounds like, or at least that's what Joe was saying to, and of course, Joe being an unreliable narrator, but it doesn't seem like Maddie likes Kate really. And she was like, okay, yeah, let's overthrow Kate, whatever. But she doesn't seem to have that hatred towards her, or at least it doesn't feel like. Maybe we just haven't seen or heard it yet, but she didn't really seem to like hate her as much as like what Reagan did or does. Yeah.

[01:01:56] So, well, yeah, what a, what a nice little twist. And it's so early in the season. So again, it's like we, you know, we, we've gotten this, you know, we've, we've already got a murder. We got Bob out of the way in the first episode. We've got, you know, the wrong twin kidnapped and put in the murder basement in the second episode. What in the heck is going to happen? Yeah.

[01:02:19] Things are, are very much shaken up and moving along in the season so far, you know, and just backtracking to that argument that Kate and Joe had, you know, I felt like it, it felt like the beginning of things being a little differently between Joe and Kate. Right.

[01:02:38] Because I think Kate is starting to see that Joe is not quite who she would want in her life because I think she's really picking up on, you know, and like you said, I think she knows she's asking him these questions, but I think she knows that, you know, this wasn't just about, okay, we had to do this thing because it was protecting our family. And so therefore we can justify it and say that it was okay.

[01:03:03] I think she's really picking up that he likes doing this, you know, with his writing, you know, that murder fantasy and him so offhandedly like, well, what if I talk to Reagan like I did to Bob? You know, and she just looks at him like, that's your first reaction. Like instead of trying to find another way to problem solve this, your first reaction is like, oh, well, let's just kill him. You know? And I think she starts- Time to dust off the old murder plan. Yeah.

[01:03:35] Hold trusty. Yeah. And even though Kate gave her sign off for Bob, you know, she's like, well, that was a moment of weakness. I don't want to repeat that. You know, that's not what we're going to do. And he's just like, well, yeah, this, like talking about it like it's normal. And he's telling her plain that, well, yeah, this, I'm protecting my family. So no, I don't feel regret over that, you know? Yeah. It's like, we need to find a way to keep our conscience clear. And he's like, oh, my conscience is fine.

[01:04:05] It's just like, get there and doesn't matter. He's like, oh, I have no problem with that. Yeah. Yeah. And when he's like, so she's like, is this how we just solve all of our problems? If people get in our way, it's like, where do they stop? If, you know, we're talking about Reagan right now, then does that also mean Maddie? Could it mean, you know, because then if something happens to Reagan after she's already raised suspicions about Bob, well, then Maddie's going to be like, well, what the hell?

[01:04:34] Teddy might even be like, well, what the hell? You know, Bob, you know, commits suicide. Now, all of a sudden something's happened to Reagan. You know, there's going to be a lot of suspicion around that. So what does that mean? Do they have to kill all of them? You know, and I think like, where does it where do you stop it? You know, and I think that's what Kate is trying to say to him. And I feel like that.

[01:04:58] Joe, he was arguing with her there, and I think he's starting to see Kate not being able to accept all of him. Mm-hmm. And I feel like that's kind of the, maybe the beginning of the end of their relationship. And that is why I think that he's now shifted to Bronte. Yeah, because she's somebody who understands me. Yeah. Who sees me for what I could be, and she gets it.

[01:05:27] It's that obsessive personality of moving from one thing to the next as soon as you realize it's not exactly picture perfect as you wanted it to be. Exactly. And that was what I was mentioning earlier when we were talking about Bronte and, you know, his kind of turn of calling her back in and giving her the job, giving her the apartment. Now, whether or not it goes further than that as far as like a romantic kind of relationship, I don't know.

[01:05:51] But I feel like it's, this is the beginning of a breakdown between Kate and Joe, because she's, like, he sees it as rejecting him. Where Bronte, like you said, sees him and, quote, understands who he is, even though Bronte does not understand. I don't think who Joe really is. Yeah. So I think that was why there was the switch there.

[01:06:15] And I mean, Joe, wasn't it with Love where she's like, when Love was talking about, like, she would kill for the family, you know, she was trying to justify all of that to Joe. And Joe's like, no, I don't want to be doing this until we're old. And now he's, the tables have kind of turned. And now he's saying that to Kate where it's like, oh, no, we can just keep doing this forever.

[01:06:45] And Kate's like, no, she's rejecting that. I feel like, well, you know, kind of turning the tables there. So I don't know. He's definitely having this battle with himself. He's got this version that he wants the world to see in this darker self that he just can't suppress. He's, I think, losing that battle. And he just thinks everything, you know, he thinks doing the right thing for his family, you know, is like it's okay. So I don't know.

[01:07:18] You know, he's not, I don't know. He's not reformed. He just has these, like you said, obsessive tendencies. And I'm interested to see, you know, I can't wait to watch the next episode later after we've wrapped recording and kind of see what happens next. I want to see this fallout and how he tries to explain things to Maddie. Maybe. How she ended up there. What's going on? What lies will he tell? Oh, yeah. Good twist. Good twist. They got me. Damn it.

[01:07:48] They got me. That's okay. Okay. Any, any other points or do you have notes? Yeah, just a few little notes. Just the small little things. First, the music thing, again, near the beginning of the episode, I think after the little opening bit in Moonies. And then just that, you know, kind of like the first episode where they had that Hozier song playing over like the city, you know, life. It's like they had that little shot of like the New York City traffic before jumping back to whatever next scene.

[01:08:17] And On The Run by Glass Animals was playing. And that is one of my favorite bands. Easily one of my top albums of last year. One of my favorite songs on that album. So although they're all great. It's a great album. But I was just like singing along. It's like, oh, yes. Glass Animals. Love that they include that. But my only complaint is that it was just a short little clip and then gone. And I was like, oh, we didn't even get like the chorus of that song that I love so much. Oh. Yeah. One of my favorites. Second time this show has used Glass Animals.

[01:08:46] The song Tangerine appeared in season three really quickly as well. And yes, I remember that off the top of my head because I'm ridiculous like that. Like I can remember the exact like kind of not maybe the exact scene, but it was they were in their backyard or whatever. And oh, shoot. What was his name? The boy that Love ended up getting involved with that. I just can't think of his name right now. He's still out there, too.

[01:09:16] Joe saved him at the end of that season. Yeah. I can't think of his name. Yeah. I would not be able to think of it. He was hanging out in the backyard or whatever and there's like music playing. I was like, oh, there's some Glass Animals. I know exactly what he's listening to. It takes music. This show always does a great job with music. So I'm. Yeah. I can't wait, you know, to get further and to see what musical choices they make. Yeah.

[01:09:45] And then last little thing. Kate's giving Teddy Bob's position in the company. Oh, yeah. And even Teddy's bringing up, like, it seems a little quick with everything going on. But Kate says, like, oh, yeah. Well, after the dinner party, like, things are clearly aren't going to smooth over. And I think that's the reason why she's doing that is she needs another person that she can rely on on the board making calls in her favor immediately. She's got to have somebody in her corner. Yeah. Yeah. In an official standpoint.

[01:10:15] So, like, that's why she's giving that Teddy. Also, because we talked about Teddy a little bit last episode. I didn't even realize it then. Teddy is played by Griffin Matthews. I was like, where do I recognize him? He played Luke Jacobson in She-Hulk. If anybody watched that or if you did. He was the costume designer for Jen and Daredevil and even, like, Leapfrog and stuff. He was, like, the costume designer, fashion designer for the superheroes. Very interesting.

[01:10:41] Very interesting, you know, over-the-top kind of character that was really fun. I was like, that's who that was. Nice. I did not watch that, but I think he's doing a great job in this role. I love his character. And, yeah, I think it's a good move for Kate to get someone who – because it sounds like – I don't know who all is on the board,

[01:11:05] but certainly sounds like she's got a lot more people against her than what she had, you know, for her. So, yeah, it wouldn't hurt to have another person in her corner. But at the same time, I wonder if it also felt a little bit like a reward for the, hey, I saw Bob's – you know, I saw the footage from what happened with Bob, you know, and kind of bluffing through that whole ordeal. So this is kind of like a thank you, you know. Mm-hmm.

[01:11:36] So, yeah, like Teddy. Please still don't let him be any kind of collateral damage. Yeah. Let him live to the end of the season with a happy life. Mm-hmm. Yes, please. Little family. All right. Well, we covered all of my notes. It was mostly just the lines. Again, his internal monologue is just killing me. Turn of phrase there.

[01:12:03] But, you know, really loving his internal monologue as usual. So, I've actually found – I'll just – I'll call out. This wasn't really in my notes, but I was on social media earlier and came upon Netflix on – I was on TikTok. That's what I was on. The Netflix account. And there was a – it totally missed it, by the way, because I guess this was back in March. I'm sure it was a promo for the premiere of the new season. And so, Penn Badgley.

[01:12:31] There was a thing on the Netflix account that if you submitted a video and used a certain hashtag – I cannot remember the hashtag – and Netflix, you know, people behind their social media would scroll through those, pick these videos. And Penn Badgley would narrate them as Joe Goldberg. Oh, that's fun. Like, he was narrating his internal monologue. And so, I saw that and I was like, oh, what a cool promo. And I'm like, of course, the time has passed. Not that I'm creative enough to come up with something fun and for it to get picked.

[01:13:00] But then, like, later, because, of course, I watched that video. So, then another one pops up later where he's actually narrating someone's video. And it was just absolutely amazing. So, I – That's fun. I love that. I'm like, I want my own video with Joe Goldberg, like, narrating his internal monologue. Super fun. If you haven't seen them, I'd recommend go checking it out. It was super fun.

[01:13:25] And, but yeah, getting a kick out of his monologue and lines this season. As far as listener feedback, I was a little late in getting our post out for this episode. So, we didn't have any feedback for this particular episode, at least yet. If you have any feedback for any of the episodes that we've covered so far, again, just keep on either a previous or the current episode that we're covering for that week.

[01:13:51] Please, not any future episodes if you're watching ahead. I'll try and get the rest of the posts up. So, if you do have some feedback, you can leave it there. If you're watching ahead of us or binging it through, you know, feel free to do that. But so, if you do have any, you can certainly leave it for us at a later date. And we'll certainly circle back to it. But we did have some nice feedback from Daphne and Maria Lawson, who just mentioned it was really nice to have us back. They were excited to have us back.

[01:14:20] So, nothing specific for this episode, but just a nice little, you know, excited to have us back covering the show. So, that was really nice. Thank you both so much for those kind words. So, next week, we're going to be covering episode three, titled Imposter Syndrome. Hmm. Could that be Joe? Could it be probably other characters too, maybe? I don't know. Maddie?

[01:14:48] Why is she the imposter of Reagan? Yeah. What's going on? Yeah. Yep, could be. So, yeah, we'll find out. Well, we'll find out after we watch, after we wrap this episode. But you'll catch our thoughts next week. Yeah. So, if you'd like to leave some feedback, a message, voicemail, any of those things for us to read, play, react to, whatever, here on the show.

[01:15:17] You can find all the information, contact information and links and stuff over at podcastica.com. And while you're there, be sure to check out our other shows. Like, I was recently, this week, last minute, last minute, unexpectedly, joined the cast of us to discuss. Yeah. It was good to be back with that group. Hadn't podcasted with them in a little while. So, that was interesting.

[01:15:45] We covered episode three that aired this week. So, that was super fun. So, check that out. Had a great time. Oh, yeah. With Eric and Ben covering that. And I know that you teased a little bit about your current episode and teased about what you have upcoming. Is there anything else you want to call out for Run For Your Lives or Buffalo Buffalo? Uh, nothing new. Just kind of the same.

[01:16:14] I guess, restate what I did for the last episode. Yeah. This episode's Run For Your Lives, which will be up on Friday. So, you got a few days. We'll be Children of the Corn. We're covering that. And then, of course, the most recent episode that is up right now for you to listen to is another Stephen King adaptation, which is The Monkey. So, you can check that out. Y'all own a Stephen King kick, I see. Yeah. It's hard not to be. He is the king of horror for a reason. The master. Yeah.

[01:16:44] Mm-hmm. He's awesome. Yeah. And then Buffalo Buffalo, if people want to check that out again, it's just kind of a... No movies or TV shows or stuff like that. Maybe sometimes pop culture. But yeah, it's just me, Daphne, Jeff, and Jerry getting together and making each other laugh and being ridiculous and seeing how many puns we can sling around in an hour. And we play fun, ridiculous, creative games that we take turns coming up with. And yeah, it's a blast.

[01:17:14] So, we just have a good time over there. So, you just need something light and easy and fun to listen to. And I recommend checking it out. Maybe I'm a little biased because it's me, but I think we're funny. I think we... I would concur with that. And I think we could all use something a little light and funny to listen to from time to time. Yeah. So, go subscribe. Check out any of those podcasts and all the other stuff going on on Podcastica as well. Andor is running right now. Handmaid's Tale.

[01:17:44] Lots of great stuff to check out on those. Podcastica.com. Plus, Still Slaying, the Buffy rewatch podcast on Podcastica that is phenomenal if you're a Buffy fan. So, you can check that out. A lot of great shows. So, Podcastica.com. Find the shows you love. Especially this one, if you're listening to us right here on Strange Indeed. Give us some likes, reviews, ratings, all those things. Especially Apple Podcast reviews help us a lot. So, we really appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks in advance.

[01:18:16] All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Until next time, I'm Rima. And I'm Paige. And Maria Lawson is strange indeed.