322 "Imposter Syndrome" (YOU S5E3)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Podcastica! Hey everybody, I'm Rima. And I'm Pake. And this is Strange Indeed, a podcast dedicated to the Netflix show, YOU. Today we are covering Season 5, Episode 3, Imposter Syndrome. Oh, what did you think about this week's episode?

[00:00:32] I liked it. Again, it feels like I could maybe just give the same answer every week as we get in here. But it is, like, yeah, it's definitely pushing things forward. I'm just more and more curious every week to see where things go. As we watch, as he always does, we watch Joe just continue to dig a ditch for himself. And then he digs his way out of that ditch right into a new one.

[00:01:01] And, you know, it's just... Oh, Joe up to his usual hijinks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I really like this one. I'm finding this season... I think what I find probably more interesting than some of the other seasons is, you know, Joe's evolved a little... And not for the better. I don't mean evolved in a good way, as evolving as a human, but evolving... Maybe as a psychopath, I don't know. But it's just...

[00:01:27] It's interesting to see him this season, how he's... Kind of like what he was telling Kate. Like, I stopped having guilt for this side of myself. You know? Yeah. Like, it's interesting to have him kind of aware of... Like, oh, I kill people. And I'm okay with it. You know, where before he kind of had almost like a shame or guilt around her and he kind of lied to himself. Or he rationalized it for whatever reason. But now he's kind of like, yeah, you know what?

[00:01:54] I just feel like it's necessary for me in my life. And I'm okay with it. So, it's interesting. That's... Yeah, this like final evolution of Joe, I guess. And this season is... Yeah, he's a lot more self-aware. He's the... Of exactly who he is. Yeah. For better or worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about for better. But, you know, I think it makes it just for more interesting and some interesting conversations.

[00:02:21] And, you know, whereas before it was just always like, you know, no, I'm... I am not like that, you know? And he would just always have that internal, you know, narration or monologue that like, no, I'm not a bad person or... And I don't think he thinks he's a bad person here. It's just he's definitely just a lot more where he's not really suppressing the fact that he does what he does and that he kind of likes it. So, I do find that part interesting for sure. So, yeah.

[00:02:49] Well, let's talk third episode here of season five imposter syndrome. What's your first point of the night? All right. Well, my notes want to pull up on my computer. That's weird. I open up my notes. I know. I open up my notes. It just says no notes. And I'm like, well, that's not true. You're winging it tonight, Peg. You're all on your own. I know. You're going in blind. I've got them on my phone.

[00:03:18] So, I don't know why this is being weird. But, yeah. First point, I guess, is Kate versus Joe. A little bit kind of there. At odds a little bit and drifting apart through this episode. One way to say it. But, yeah. The little bit of like we don't get a ton of scenes, but we get a few of them kind of checking in with each other.

[00:03:43] And a lot of the issue, of course, is stemming around last episode where we, you know, this. They're still struggling with this issue of Reagan gunning after Henry. And is it really about Henry? Not so much. Although it's not above Reagan to like be feeling hatred for a small child. That's something I'm sure she's totally done plenty of times. But it's not necessarily about Henry.

[00:04:13] It's just, it's another avenue that she can channel some kind of hatred or jabs at her sister, at Kate. And so they're still having to deal with that issue of like, well, what do we do with, you know, he's going to be kicked out of that school. And Joe, even though he's kind of more aggressive about it. I mean, he makes a decent point as far as, you know, Teddy's like, why don't we just put him in a new school and it's not a big deal. And he's very much like, no, he needs stability. Which it's like, okay, you're coming at that because it's like a personal attack to you. But you're not wrong.

[00:04:44] Yeah. He does. He has a point, but I don't think it's for unselfish reasons. Right. Yeah. But yeah, he's like refusing to give into Reagan's demands or like give into this or buckle at all. He just, and then in his inner monologue, it's just like, let me kill her. Let me kill her. Let me kill her. Let me kill her. Like, it's just, we can take care of it all. Like, why are we still, you know, trying to do things the right way when he's, he's bloodthirsty at this point. And he's just like, let, just let me do my thing. Give me the okay. Okay.

[00:05:13] Um, and we're really seeing that he keeps pushing on that, that it's driving this wedge between him and Kate because now Kate's leaving him out of stuff. We have Kate having that conversation with Teddy and he's like, you want me to loop in Joe? And she's like, no, or even when they have a conversation, it's just like, don't you mean we're going to be on it? And she's like, no, I'm on it. Like he's, she's very much like not trusting him right now to make level headed decisions and be thinking smart and clear.

[00:05:41] So she's just pushing him to the outside and that's more in just like their personal things, but then that's going to bleed over into their marriage and their relationship. And that's what Joe really feels like he's feeling, um, unwanted or unappreciated by her in a lot of different ways. And, you know, it's like, oh, she won't let me do my murders anymore.

[00:06:04] So I don't, I'm starting to not like her, uh, like, you know, maybe there's some other woman around him that gets him. I don't know. Uh, right. Uh, he's going to start himself down that path again. We see a little bit. Well, we'll talk about. But, but yeah.

[00:06:23] And so she's pushing him to the outside and we see, I mentioned Teddy, you know, he comes in and, you know, he's been digging and Hey, we can nail Reagan with something legitimate, like embezzlement that we're finding these things that she is involved in. And that's where he's like, let's loop in Joe. And she's like, no. And I do like, he's like, you know, what are you worried? He'll strangle her himself. And it's like, oh, Teddy, if you. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:49] Um, but I think where it really boils, like, or comes to like the biggest like climax of it is near the end of the episode where they're having that like heartfelt conversation. In the kitchen or whatever word. Kate's talking to Joe about how, like having Bob killed and giving the okay with it and him doing that. It's eating away at her and she's like suffering through that. And her question is like, why are you not suffering like I am? Um, and so it's her kind of pouring her heart out to him.

[00:07:19] And instead it turns into this very unsettling thing for her. You can see her face, her eyes, like it almost like you can see things starting to click in her head of realizing, oh shit, I'm married to an absolute sociopath. He is a serial killer with no remorse. He enjoys it. And he feels like this is what his purpose is. And that's honestly terrifying. You see her realizing that. And he even picks up on it. He's like, and then when you look at me that way, it's painful.

[00:07:46] And he's still, you know, and then she's, she's trying her best to hold it together. This like, you can help me, but just not that way. And then the way he just like gets up and storms off. And you just see her like, she's starting to realize I'm not going to be able to stop him or deter him. And there's all these questions, you know, are going through her head. Like, when is this going to become a problem that I'm going to have to deal with in one way or another? You know, like, when does this go too far to where it's a big problem?

[00:08:16] Mm hmm. Yeah, I, I, I agree with everything that you said. And it's, we're definitely seeing the breakdown, I think, of their relationship. And because of that, I really worry for Kate. Mm hmm. I, I, and I think she's, like you said, kind of starting to see the cracks in that facade that Joe puts up.

[00:08:41] You know, he's, he's, he's letting the real him peek out and she's getting glimpses of that. And I think it's freaking her out. And I definitely think he's given her the ick a bit. Yeah. In a more extreme kind of way, of course. This isn't just like a distasteful habit or something that someone does. This is, he happens to be a murderer or sociopath, psychopath, whatever the true definition is here. Mm hmm.

[00:09:07] But I, I, I do worry for Kate because I feel like, you know, if she, Joe's already picking up on it. You know, he's, you can already see he's kind of turning on her a little bit. And talking about how she can't accept the real him, you know, and I know his attention's kind of diverting elsewhere. So I really worry for Kate. Uh, I think she's pretty capable, but I just don't know if she really knows.

[00:09:35] Like she knew about the, what the three murders is what like Joe copped to before Bob. Yeah. Uh, she doesn't know about everyone else. So, you know, and I mean, that's bad enough. I'm not saying like, Oh, it's fine. It was only three, you know, but you know, it's like, she, she does not know the extent of like his depravity. So I worry for her.

[00:10:01] I definitely think we're seeing, you know, some of the, you know, pieces of their, their marriage starting to crumble. That foundation is, is, you know, shaken, I think. And it made me really feel for Kate. I really did feel for her in this episode. You know, I didn't, it took me a while, you know, before she kind of grew on me in last season. Cause I was just like, I just don't, I don't get it. I don't really like her character that much.

[00:10:24] You know, I didn't really connect with her, but this episode in the season, um, I've really, you know, I can kind of see more her side and I see that she, she does have some depthness to her. And I really felt for her in this episode. And it may be again, because we, we watched this show through the lens of Joe as the narrator. That's true. Because she's kind of pushing against him.

[00:10:51] She feels more human and grounded this season versus when she's the object of his affection last season. She feels more like a caricature. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. We see a lot in this show from Joe's perspective and clearly he's an unreliable narrator and, and can kind of skew that. So that's a really good point.

[00:11:17] But whatever, you know, what we're getting from her this season, I've, you know, I'm like, oh, she's, she's a different person than what I thought she was in, in season four. And I feel, you know, cause even when she was able to have empathy for Reagan, you know, when, when she had that moment with her, you know, and, and learned about, you know, the affair with Maddie and Harrison, you know, and I know we're, we'll talk about all that.

[00:11:41] So I won't go into it, but it was just like, oh, like she can even like, even after all the things that Reagan, you know, had said to her and done to her, you know, she can still be like, I'm sorry. Like that sucks what you're going through. And I'm really sorry. That's awful. It is a human side to her. She is empathetic and she does have. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's kind of understanding and pity and care for people. Yeah.

[00:12:05] Even though she was like, you know, Hey, if you don't like back down, I'll splash us all over page six, you know, she's still got to get her point across. She's still looking out for her family, you know, but, uh, and herself, you know, she's covering herself, but also protecting her family at the same time. So, you know, there's still a little bit of that in there and I can appreciate that.

[00:12:24] But, uh, but, you know, I'm just like, oh, she's, she still has empathy for someone who, you know, she, you know, was calling a cow a few episodes before. Yeah. Or not episodes, sorry, a few scenes before when she was talking with Teddy. So, so yeah, I don't know. I do worry for Kate though. I worry for her. She's got to be, got to be careful around Joe. Yeah. That's a good place to start.

[00:12:55] Anything else you wanted to say about. I think that's it on that one. Yeah. All right. So, uh, let's, I want to go ahead and talk about, uh, Maddie. Um, so I, I was really proud to see in this episode that Maddie's a little bit smarter than maybe what she was given credit for. And I was thinking that, and I think like the first episode, cause I'm just like, I'm not buying the whole, you know,

[00:13:24] party girl concert goer, you know, uh, you know, just, she seemed a little flaky and bubbly person. I'm like, I feel like there's something underlying there at the surface. And she turned out to be a lot smarter, I think, than what she was given credit for. Yeah. You know, the fact that she's in the freaking box and how many people have we seen in that box and she doesn't panic. You know, we've seen people really panic in there and rightfully so, of course she was not panicking, you know, at all.

[00:13:53] She instead just starts plucking away at Joe and his behavior and just starts, you know, the, this analysis, you know, she goes whole psycho analyst here and. Yeah. You know, starts picking it apart. And I, I was like, she, she's onto him in a way. What was it last episode or the first episode, whatever episode it was when they met in the bar.

[00:14:19] And she's like, I feel you're not quite who you say you are that you want to be somewhere else. You know, she, she just really kind of nailed him. And I'm just like, yeah, she's, she's got something about her. Like she, she's a lot smarter and she really challenged him. She wouldn't, you know, act afraid even when Joe was like trying to get her to be afraid and she was turning things around on him.

[00:14:44] And I loved it because Joe's like, what the hell do I do with this? You know, it totally just threw him off. Cause he's, he's so used to being in control and people being scared and being able to use that to his benefit. Right. Like if he wants information or if he wants something, he can use that, you know, to get what he wants. But with Maddie, his usual tactics were not working at all.

[00:15:10] And this whole like protector act that he's got going on, she was just seeing right through it. And oh my gosh, when she's like, you are not my boo-boo. Yeah. I am your boo-boo. I just couldn't help but I was just losing it. But, but I'm like, I don't know what he was thinking because even though he, he got Maddie and he intended to, to kidnap Reagan and, and deal with her either way.

[00:15:40] I don't see how he thought that this was going to be a good idea because even if he had Reagan, like you're still going to have an issue. Like you don't think that Maddie and even Teddy are going to be looking at him like, well, you know, kind of looking at him like, well, Reagan's up and disappeared. You know, he doesn't think that anyone's going to question that. And then Kate's would also kind of be caught in the middle of that too. And even with it being Maddie, it doesn't make any difference.

[00:16:09] He's still in a tough spot with her and it would, he would have been, had it been Reagan. So I'm just, I'm not like, I don't know what Joe was thinking, but I loved how she was totally able just to turn the tables on him. And I don't know. I just found all that very interesting. What, what do you think about, about that? Yeah. Well, that's one of my main points as well as just breaking down. It's Maddie in a box. That's what I was thinking about. But yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:38] Just where we pick it. He's trying to figure out what to do with her. And, you know, again, they did one of those little fake outs where he goes in and kills her. And then it's like, oh, he's back to his journaling. Yeah. They almost had me with that one. Yeah. Just always thinking about what to do is like murder is easy. But then as you were even saying, like, it makes everything else more complicated. And then it does. He doesn't have enough personally against Maddie to like justify that because he's still in this place where he has to like justify his kills at least. Yeah. I guess that's good.

[00:17:08] And so his first attempt is this. Let's play it off as a dumb mistake by a jealous man that has a crush. And yeah, Maddie's not that stupid. And Joe's not that stupid. He should know better. And it's. Yeah. He tries to weigh that or weight it a little bit with the truth about her affair with Harrison. Like he throws that information out. I was like, here's something I know. And, you know, she doesn't react to them, which later she does say that she was bluffing at that point.

[00:17:36] That is the one thing that she really was the most scared about. But I love that. He's just like, I think she's buying it. And then immediately she just 100% puts everything together flawlessly. Oh, so Kate then did have you kill Uncle Bob. And then you did this and then you did that. And then this is. And then you thought I was Reagan. And he's like, that's a 100 score. How did you get everything right? He's like, well, this is a problem. Mm-hmm. That backfired poorly.

[00:18:07] Yeah. So his plan then is like, well, I'll withhold food and stuff from her and then see if she'll give me dirt on Reagan. And then, you know, we can make out a deal that I'll let her out if she gives me what I need against her sister. And instead, she gets this story of Maddie being kidnapped at 16 and being able to stay so calm and collected that she manages to guilt the kidnapper into killing himself. And it's like, okay. Crazy story. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:36] All while having her ear cut off during the process. So she's not worried about being caged. At least that's the front that she's putting on most of this is she's able to keep that calm thing. I like that, you know, make no mistake, Boo Boo. You're the hostage here. And also, Daddy bought me a new ear is such a wild sentence to hear anything. It's what I've come to expect out of this show. Right. The more wild, the better.

[00:19:05] I like, yeah, you mentioned her really analyzing him. And I wrote down one of them because I was like, if it's not a picture perfect read on Joe, I don't know if I've ever seen one. And you're a sort of soft boy misogynist, right? Control hungry goblin under a nice guy smile. I was like, yeah, that is 100% what Joe is doing. And that's exactly what he is. Oh, yeah. She read him good. Yeah. Yeah. And then he makes the mistake of it's for books.

[00:19:32] And so she's like, oh, so we are in the bookstore. Like she. Dude. Like she picked up on that right away. She's so good. And so he starts feeling cornered. So we do see him snap at her a little bit at that moment. Like the one time that, you know, it's time for her to see that mask slip and see what's behind there a little bit where, you know, he does snap at her and has that, you know, not many people have seen this side of me and lived. And I do think he legitimately did shake her there. She was shook for just a second.

[00:20:02] But then she's able to compose herself pretty quickly and get right back to, oh, boo boo did do research. You know, like she's right back to like she knows she's getting under his skin with the sarcasm. And so she just keeps playing at it. She can be in his head under his skin like that gives her an upper hand. I got to say, sorry to interrupt, but like Anna Camp has just been absolutely delightful in the season so far. I mean, I loved her before.

[00:20:31] I thought she was really great, but I'm just really enjoying her in this. For sure. Yeah. And so he goes the next time he visits, he has him delivering the good news, quote unquote, that all the affair is out and about by at least by Reagan. Like she knows and she's divorcing Harrison. And, you know, I can free you and then you can run away with your lover and everything will be good.

[00:20:56] And no, instead, we get even more huge information from Maddie there. She's like she's more afraid of Reagan than she is of death. Uh, she's like, no, Reagan will take everything from me, not just money and power, but my child. And we learn that Gretchen is biologically not Reagan's, but Maddie's daughter. Uh, Reagan used her twin sister as a surrogate.

[00:21:25] And then the way she says is like, she basically, she bullied me into doing it because she didn't want to get all stretchy and stretched out and stuff. So she made me do it. And then she made that justification. So I guess the thing between her and Harrison had been going on even before Gretchen was born because then, well, then I justified it by thinking, well, then it's some way that me and Harrison are having a child together. And we had, she has some romantic kind of feeling about that.

[00:21:51] But she knows now that like, because she holds this maternal love for Gretchen still for the girl that like Reagan is going to hold that against her and she's going to keep her from ever seeing Gretchen again because of, and like, that's the biggest blow of this whole thing. That's what really ruins her whenever she's like, uh, the, the truth is out there. That's what she's scared of. And, and I don't think that it was like, that wasn't a ploy, you know, she's getting under Joe's skin.

[00:22:20] She's like, that was a true moment of vulnerability. And that's what really works on Joe the most. I think is he feels real empathy and pity. He's capable of it sometimes. Sometimes. Yep. Uh, and Tori, he goes in there and administers the insulin himself to her. Like, and he realizes how much he really screwed up, but. That then he's like, okay, maybe there's like a different rapport, a different thing.

[00:22:45] And then at the end of the episode, after Reagan's stunt, which we'll talk about, um, gives Joe a new idea where, you know, is Maddie going to be on board with it? We'll see. You talked about like, Ooh, at the end of the episode, I gotta see what's going to happen next. But, uh, you know, how would you like to become your sister?

[00:23:03] And so I assume my guess is his plan is to kill Reagan stage that to look like Maddie had like killed herself in some, you know, the wake of all this happening with all the truth and everything coming out. Right. And then have Maddie assume the identity of Reagan. So she like gets her life job reputation kid, maybe even love her back. Well, not hers, but some new ones, you know, can kind of slot herself into that. I don't know. That's it's an interesting thought.

[00:23:32] Uh, I don't know how well she's going to go for that. Curious to see where this goes now. I like that. I think, you know, I don't know if I was thinking far enough ahead with Joe, maybe plotting to insert her entirely into rate or like as Reagan and, and offing Reagan.

[00:23:55] And like you said, giving him, you know, oh, well he can like make it look like an accident or make it look like something else and get rid of Reagan entirely and just have Maddie assume her identity or whatever and just slide into her life. Um, but it'll be, I love it though. I love that. And I don't know, you know what, Maddie seemed pretty darn desperate.

[00:24:22] I mean, everything that you were recalling about that scene, you know, I, I know my heart was breaking for her. I was like, you know, oh, she's now she's being vulnerable. Right. And we get to see that side of her and I was really feeling for her. And I was like, yeah, you probably should be scared of Reagan. Like, I, I think I'm scared of Reagan and she's a TV character, you know, she's, she's pretty scary and awful. So I, I believed everything that she was saying.

[00:24:46] I don't know all the details of what she was talking about as far as like how, how far Reagan can go and like what documents they've signed. She was talking about like prenups and you know, all these, she's like death by legalese or something, you know? So I'm like, I don't know what kind of documents they had to sign and what kind of legalities are involved, but she was definitely like very serious about Reagan and completely ruining her with this news. And obviously also Gretchen being taken from her. She seemed in a very, very low place.

[00:25:16] So I think if not for all of that happening and Reagan finding out and knowing Maddie, knowing how bad it can get with, with Reagan, then she wouldn't be as open to it. But probably now she's so desperate that it's her way of survival that she might go for it. Yeah. I guess, I mean, I guess we'll find out, but yeah, I love that. I hadn't even thought that far.

[00:25:42] I hadn't even thought to like, I was just like, oh, she's gonna, you know, like, okay, Maddie will turn up and pretend to be Reagan and totally foil whatever plan Reagan thinks is, is, you know, that she's playing out with pretending to be Maddie. And doing this whole live, you know, thing. I hadn't thought that far ahead. I really liked that. That's a really good thought. And I hope it happens that way. See. Yeah.

[00:26:11] Really, really great scenes though with Joe and Maddie. And I really love Maddie as a character. I mean, even Reagan, as scary as what she is, is fun. You know, it's fun to watch her be a real see you next Tuesday. Okay. Was that my point or was that yours? I guess. It was yours that transitioned into mine. Yeah. Okay. Do you, do you want to take, take the next point then? Or you can go ahead with her. Cause that was one of my big ones.

[00:26:39] So I just kind of piggybacked and threw it on there. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's talk Bronte. All right. So we got a little, little bit more information in Bronte. This episode, you know, her, I really hope that there's a, a payoff with her character because some of the lines that they're giving her are a little bit cringe. The, the, it's, it's,

[00:27:08] it's a lot of heavy handed Gen Z speak for sure. It, it is, it is. Um, and I'm still just feeling very sus of her. Like, I'm not, I don't know. Like if she is someone who is trying to investigate Joe, then I feel like I'd be okay with how, how she's coming across, you know, because it feels like she's trying to draw him out and, and somehow get to him.

[00:27:39] Um, but the more that I see her on the screen and, and, and how she interacts with Joe, she just doesn't really seem like Joe's type, the type that he's kind of, you know, gotten so caught up in before and obsessed with and stalker like, and, you know, how he just goes into that whole routine, right. Of, uh, of that person being his quote you, right. That,

[00:28:08] and in this episode, you know, we, we see them kind of still kind of going back and forth, this flirting. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm not feeling it. Like, I feel like they do have like a chemistry, but I'm still just, I'm like, this just doesn't seem like Joe's type that he would normally be so caught up in. Yeah. And then, you know, later after, and we find out she's got, you know, I'm, I'm, I don't want to focus too much on the, and if you want to talk about it, that's okay.

[00:28:37] But I'm going to kind of skim over the part where we learn, like her name's obviously not Bronte. Like, I think we knew that. Yeah. Which is funny because at the like reading thing where this dude, Clayton was just like, you know, her name's actually Louise Flannery and blah, blah. And then like, she storms off and he goes like, has she been playing me? And it's like, you knew her name. Was it Bronte from the first time you met her? You dweeb. Stop acting shocked. Like, I don't know. Like he called that out right away. He's like,

[00:29:07] Bronte, like, obviously that's not her name or whatever he said in his internal monologue. And we're like, yeah, I think we all knew her name wasn't Bronte. I mean, I guess, is there a chance? Sure. Maybe, you know, but likely that's not what her, in a world of loves and forties and peaches, you know, you never know. Exactly. Exactly. We've certainly had some interesting names in the show and even, even back, right. Guinevere, Guinevere back. Right.

[00:29:37] So she had a unique name. So yeah. Is it that far of a stretch? No, but even he was questioning that. So yeah. When he's like, Oh, she's hiding something. Well, I mean, so it wasn't a real shock. Like, Oh my gosh, she's a dental hygienist from Ohio. I'm like, I don't know. To me, that's not like, I'm not clutching my pearls over there. You know, it's like, okay. You know, and a lot of people do come to New York for, you know, not,

[00:30:06] there are people who are, were born and raised in New York. I know that, but many, many people come to New York. That's the place to be right. There there's, they're chasing a dream or, or something. So, you know, there's a lot of people who are not native New Yorkers. They're there for, so it's not that far of a stretch that she has done the same thing. So it was just kind of like, okay, I'm not, I'm not quite seeing the big, big shocker here that she's, you know, some, someone else and has some other kind of past. That wasn't really it to me, but, you know,

[00:30:36] throughout their, their whole exchange, which part of it was a little cringe, uh, some of, some of the exchange between them. Uh, what really got me and what I thought was, was most interesting was, I don't recall seeing it in other seasons because it's just like, he just, he almost just kind of starts out, sees someone and he's talking about them. He's kind of stalking them. And you do get kind of like a dreamy haze around this person. But what I found really interesting was like, you could,

[00:31:05] we got to see the actual shift in this episode where Bronte becomes you. Mm-hmm. Joe has been you up until this point. And when he's standing in the hallway and he's got like this, I don't know, whatever is glow around him. And there's like this fuzziness and he kind of tilts his head and he's going like, Oh no, Oh no, what's happening.

[00:31:30] And now you can see this kind of transition over to Bronte where he's projecting this onto her now. And I think this whole evening where that he's that he had spent with her and she's got this crappy ex-boyfriend who was awful to her. And he, and she has like, like, I don't know how much truth she was telling or whatever, but like essentially spills her guts to Joe. And now he's got a new damsel in distress. Yeah.

[00:32:00] So who's would, you know, uh, appreciate his protection and his service and the things he could do for her. Yeah. Yeah. And as his relationship, you know, we talked about him and Kate, you know, that's kind of crumbling and, you know, it's not as, you know, perfect as I think what Joe has been putting up for the last three years. That's kind of, you know, falling apart. And now that attention is shifting, um, you know, to Bronte. It's like,

[00:32:30] uh, okay, here we go again, you know? So, so I don't know. It was just, but it was an interesting scene. Cause I don't think we've ever seen it actually play out that way. Yeah. Before when he's got this, I, you know, we, we, we saw it like in season one with Beck, you know, is, you know, their interactions and how he's kind of watching her and, you know, she's looking through the, the books in the bookstore and, you know, like with love in the grocery store and, you know, and I can't remember how it all played out with,

[00:33:00] with Kate exactly. But, you know, just, this was just a different way where we actually kind of, it was almost like a physical kind of shift instead of just, you know, from, from his perspective. So that was kind of interesting. So I don't know. I, I still feel like she's, she's off. I'm waiting for that shoe to drop. I don't know. What do you think? What do you think about Bronte in this episode and Joe? Yeah. Well, same as the last time. I mean, it's obviously, yeah, one of my big points.

[00:33:28] So I'll just kind of go into mine. And yeah, it was this whole time. He's got Maddie in the basement. You know, he's still got to deal with that, but first a side quest with Bronte to go buy a shit ton of romance novels. Side quest. Cause that's something she's noticed that the store has a severe lack of. And then, so that whole romance conversation gets kicked up between them and it does. It just becomes in this like back and forth and recurring, like flirt that goes on throughout the episode.

[00:33:58] I mean, her wanting to like act out the romance novel scene to make a point. Like it's so clearly making a move further than just being a quirky person. So like, like Joe, you have to see that you're not stupid again. Like it's, you know, he doesn't want to, I don't think. Yeah. Uh, and then going to the Uber hipster reading party thing with her. Um, and I did notice when they get there and then like, he's like, you know, the inner monologue is going on and he's taking everything in. And then one of Bronte's friends,

[00:34:28] just some random person comes up, but it's the exact words and the way she says it whenever it like cuts Joe out of his inner monologue is this random friend coming from going, Hey you. And I was just like, that was on purpose. Like, I didn't even, I mean, I probably heard it, but I don't think it like clicked. That's a good call out. I think it was just a little foreshadowing again. It's like, that's kind of the direction Bronte is going to be going now. Uh,

[00:34:58] just slowly more and more as it goes. Uh, and then yesterday, so we, he learns his, or he learns her name and this stuff. So now that he has that information, he's going to do his signature social media and online sleuthing. Of course. Gather all the information. Yeah. Louise Flannery, the dental hygienist from Toledo, Ohio. And of course I'm looking at it even a little deeper. I was like, she worked at a place called molar energy dental associates for seven years. I was like, that's a fun name. Um,

[00:35:28] but then yeah, I found her good reads account. And of course that includes Beck's book. Another sus. Yeah. And he even says it is like, it's not necessarily a huge gotcha. That book was huge in a cultural phenomenon, but it does send up a little red flag. And then the fact that, but then he doesn't put those two and two together in that moment. He's like, well, she did read Sherry and Carrie's, you know, trashy book. So she just reads these kinds of things. It's like,

[00:35:53] shouldn't you think that the fact that both of those are in her like library or is a little bit more of a red flag? Uh, yeah. And, and your darn murder box. Yeah. In the basement. She's definitely putting some things together. So I don't want to trust her. She seemed, you know, I'm suspicious of her, but then as you mentioned that conversation when they're in her apartment and the way she just bears her soul to Joe and it feels so honest.

[00:36:23] And she's talking about her feelings about her mom and her relationship to human chamber, Clayton. And even when, you know, Beck comes up, she's super honest about that's why she came to Mooney's in the first place is she was kind of obsessed with Beck's story and getting to know about her. And so it does make me kind of re question what I'm questioning. I was like, I don't know how to feel about it. Cause in those moments when she's talking to Joe, it's like, she seems incredibly earnest.

[00:36:48] Like it doesn't seem like she's got some ulterior motive or some kind of thing, unless she's just that good. Like, yeah. Yeah. You just don't know. She's my biggest mystery this season. I think that I'm very curious about also that them, that conversation in the apartment, let maybe the quote of the episode for me, which is Joe saying, don't let one come wave, stop you. It's just what a quote. Oh, only in this show, you know?

[00:37:19] Yeah. But yeah. So then you mentioned the scene with like, yeah, she's saying all the right things. And then we see like this, the gliding change in the filter and it's just like, yeah, we're headed down that path. Here we go. And then, you know, he able to pull himself away and go, no, I need to leave. We don't need to do this. And she even says something that's like, I'm not in a mental place to be trying to have an affair with a married man. And like, he doesn't turn that down this time. He's not the one going, that's not what this is. He just leaves.

[00:37:50] And so I, there's, there's more between them. And then, you know, journaling has seemed to have its merits with the murderous tendencies. So I guess we'll use it as an outlet for other urges that we're trying to fight. I was wondering how long it would take for like a public masturbation. I know it's, it feels like it's been quite a while since we've got that. So I don't, I don't know if we got one in season four, nothing stands out, but you know, like, you know, I was, like I said,

[00:38:20] I was trying to rewatch the whole series before we got to this season. I did not make it, but I did make it to that scene in season one when he's across the street from Beck's apartment. And I'm like, Oh yes, I have forgotten somehow about all of the. I had managed to scrub that from my memory and now it's back. Great. Yeah. I managed to forget. And here we are. Awesome. Yeah. And I'm also wondering, just like, where's he keeping those? Is he still keeping those in that office down there? Uh,

[00:38:50] how long till Bronte finds one of those, those, uh, stories now that writing, um, yeah, it's. Uh, he is, he's, he's really losing it. I feel like he's, I mean, we've seen him before, you know, really lose it in, in, in episodes and you're just like, Oh damn, Joe is bad, but he is just really, I don't know. He's really, uh, crashing.

[00:39:19] I think it's just down bad crying at the gym. Everything comes up. Teenage petulance. Oh, thank you. Thank you for throwing in some Taylor Swift lyrics. Always tortured poets. Very fitting for this series, you know, being very, uh, you know, references to literature and Joe, you know, being an academic. It's just a matter of time. Maybe it's going to be the finale,

[00:39:48] but there's definitely a song off of that album playing in this season. There's got to be. Oh gosh, if we don't, it'll, it'll be like the worst opportunity, like, or missed opportunity. Sorry. That's what I meant. Um, but yeah, we have to, um, oh gosh. Yeah. I don't know what to think about Bronte. Okay. Um, well, I know that that was also like one of your points, but I feel like I kind of keep stealing your points. So go into them. No,

[00:40:18] I love that. I mean, we're, we're, we're always pretty well on sync with our points and stuff and it gets, you know, just into a good conversation instead of like, you know, back and forth and just pointing things out. But I feel like I keep taking those. So why don't you go ahead and, and do you have another point or more that you want to talk about? Go ahead. I had one small, like teeny tiny one. Um, let's go for it, which is just yet the Reagan problem. We've talked about her a little bit. Um, and we've talked about some of these already is just, yeah,

[00:40:47] what she's up to here. Um, aside from, yeah, I mean, the Henry thing, obviously, but we get that more information. And when Kate goes to deliver the death blow, uh, about the embezzlement and stuff over at Reagan's place and instead finds her reeling from finding out about Harrison and Maddie's affair. Yeah. Yeah. And so you, you mentioned this. Yeah. Kate's attempting to take the kind approach and comfort her sister and then use that to, to kind of drop the Henry issue, which I did like that.

[00:41:17] Reagan sees through that just like in a camp with that, just like shocked Pikachu face, you know, like, like, how dare you use my trauma against me. Oh, I was like, okay. Yeah. Okay. Reagan. Okay. Um, and so, yeah, Kate just, so kindly and gently holds the affair over her head, drop it, or the world finds out tomorrow before you can do any level of damage control. And that is what works. Yeah. Uh, but they still seem to have like a moment together there.

[00:41:46] And so Kate's fully in this place. Like, okay, we got the Henry issue taken care of. She's calling Joe and being like, Reagan's taken care of. Just don't worry about it anymore. It's good. See, I told you I can handle it from my end above board. We're good. Of course, Joe doesn't trust Reagan to be off of Kate's case at all. He's like, he's like, great. Cool. The kid's out of it, but like, she's still a snake and I have to do something about it. He's not going to let that go. Um,

[00:42:16] and I don't think he, I mean, I don't think he's wrong necessarily about that part of like, she's not gonna, uh, as we see again in the episode when like the live video goes and he's like, wait, why is Maddie going live? And then he puts it together immediately. Like it's, it's Reagan pretending to be her impression. So good. Even her own sister is buying it. Um, yeah. Yeah. But Reagan is pretending to be Maddie online being like, yeah, the rumors are true. And I'm so embarrassed and ashamed and I'm a terrible person. And I'm,

[00:42:45] I'm stepping down from my board position. And that's Reagan getting Maddie out of the way, wherever Maddie is. She doesn't care. Um, but getting Maddie off the board at a position, a way to take vengeance out on Maddie. But then it is also, she's still taking the opportunity to move against Kate even more. She's like, cool. Now I have another board position that I can fill with somebody I want. And then we can make sure Teddy doesn't get voted in because I have somebody on my side. And then when Teddy's not there, I can put another person that I want on there.

[00:43:14] And then we vastly outnumber Kate and we push her out and it's all mine. Like Reagan's still making plays. She's diabolical. She is like, I mean, Joe was not wrong. She was just buying herself some time, you know, to, to, to plan her next move. And she executed it very well, but she doesn't know about Maddie and where she's at. I think the next episode,

[00:43:44] I like, I'm, it's going to be, I think funny and I don't know what'll happen. And if it'll happen, like, like you said, cause I, I think that's a really good theory, but it'll be interesting to see how Reagan reacts. Like she's going to have to stay in like the Maddie role for a while or something. How's she going to play that off? You know? So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Reagan, she, it's interesting, man, that family, like anything to protect this,

[00:44:15] the family image, you know, it's all about how it's like keeping their reputation intact, you know? Um, so yeah, she's, I tell you, I could have never thought, I don't know, just takes a special kind of person to beat drum up the, these kinds of situations. And I don't know. I was like, dang, Reagan, that's pretty diabolical. But then for Joe to like go to Matt and be like, you want to be your sister? And I'm like,

[00:44:48] yeah, I agree. I think it was great and it's going to be interesting. And I can't wait to see what happens next, uh, to see, uh, you know, as people are like, you know, it's like they're, Maddie and Reagan are going to be like the Spider-Man meme. We're like pointing at each other. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, I can think about in my head. I love it. Oh gosh. Well, that small note was like part of like,

[00:45:17] I don't really have anything else to say about Reagan. You know, we've kind of talked about her and Kate and then the, the end there where she's pretending to be Maddie. Did you have any notes or anything for the episode? A few random little things. One thing I just noticed, the, the shop that's next to Moonies. Cause when we see that outside view, the street view, uh, is called Nirvana, which I don't know. That's a purposeful nod or not. The fact that again, the Quinn's shop was a Navrin, which was Nirvana backwards.

[00:45:45] And now there's just this store front next to Moonies. I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but I was like something I noticed, you know, it's on purpose. That is such a good pickup. I wasn't, I have not been paying attention at all. Maybe I'm like watching these episodes too late at night, my first watch. And then on my second watch, I'm so focused on other things. I'm not picking that up, but it totally has to be a thing because yeah, the, the Avrin. And,

[00:46:14] and I think we picked up on that during that episode or during that season was like, wait, that's Nirvana backwards. Oh, that's on purpose. Good pickup. Um, we just get one little scene with Henry. Uh, there's not much, but he seems to be enjoying therapy. Or at least he's comfortable with it and it's looking really good for him. So, yeah, I just put that out like, yay therapy. Good. Uh, him and George seem to be hitting it off. So, you know, that's great. Yeah. I hope he's like going to be okay.

[00:46:44] Like I, I really hope that whatever Joe has going on in his brain, that it's not like genetic and passed down and little Henry, you know, is a, a, a, a well-developed, you know, a little human. I hope. And, and I hope that he is, you know, can resolve everything that he's had to undergo and whatever.

[00:47:11] Cause I don't care what happens to Joe by the end of this show, but Henry better be okay. Yeah. I just want Henry to be okay. Uh, and then last is, uh, yeah, this new character we met in this episode, Clayton, uh, Bronte's ex-boyfriend. I was like, yeah, within literally three seconds of meeting him, my immediate thoughts are this guy sucks bad. And Joe is 100% killing him later this season. Um, definitely, especially now with this whole thing,

[00:47:40] this like switch in his brain to Bronte being seen as, as you, I think now his object and his shifting from being protector. I still think he's going to be a protector of Henry. I don't know how much a protector he's going to be of Kate. Although I guess if he has, if he wants to protect his self-interest, he still has to protect Kate because without Kate, he won't have everything that he has,

[00:48:08] which means Henry won't have everything that, that they have. So he may still to a degree have to protect, Kate, but I think he'll not in the same shape or form that he would or will for Bronte. Since he always thinks that they need rescuing and he's the one to be like, he was telling Kate, like, let me be your night in shining armor to her queen. So yeah, I feel like that Clayton, we haven't seen the last of him.

[00:48:39] No, but we will see the last of him at some point. I don't think, I don't think he's going to make it through the season. Which I'm fine with. Cause yeah, just the one way me, I'm like, what an absolute narcissistic douche bag. Uh, reading the personal writing between like Bronte, you know, like from when they were dating. And I loved her, like kind of clap back at him with the, like, you know, I didn't give you permission to read that on stage, but you know,

[00:49:08] when his consent from somebody ever been an issue for you? Uh, you know, um, which again, though, like other people still seem to be applauding him and like taking his side. And there's people that were like in on it. Like the, the girl that was up there reading it with him and like took the phone before Bronte could get it and took it up there. Like there's other people like, why does she go to this thing again? Cause these people are trash. I don't know why she's still hanging out with these people. Um, yeah, the inspiration set in for Joe. He was quite poetic.

[00:49:38] I loved his line. You wouldn't mind giving him a face tattoo with adult pencil. yeah, I agree. I'm like, you're, you're like, you know, hanging around these people, but I'm like, they all seem to be pretty awful. And they were, a lot of people were laughing about what, what they were reading and, and seem to be okay with, with that. And I'm like, that's not okay. You know, it's, it's,

[00:50:08] it shouldn't be okay for someone to be reading something that you don't want shared. Like you didn't, like she said, she didn't consent to that. And that's not okay. You know, I just feel like that group would be more respectful of, of something like that. But yeah, that wasn't cool. All good notes. Anything else? That's all I got. All good stuff. Good stuff. I can't wait to watch the next episode. See what happens.

[00:50:39] Well, with that, we want to hear what our listeners had to say. And because I finally managed to get a post put up for some feedback. So our awesome listeners could let us know what they think. We do have a couple of items of feedback to provide tonight. Hey, do you want to kick us off? Sure. This first one comes from our friend Alma. Always good to hear from says, yeah, I was able to catch the feedback post. I just don't know if Joe is going to get out of this blunder.

[00:51:08] Maddie seems to dislike her sister pretty well, but Joe in fact did kidnap her and held her hostage. I do realize Joe is a villain, but why do I root for him? Right. All of us wonder the same thing. Yeah. We all, we all ask ourselves that. Yes. She goes on to say, as Joe mills over what options he has, I find myself saying, you're, you just got to kill her. There's no other way out of this predicament. I'm loving being back with his inner monologues. LOL. I can't wait to tune into the cast and hear y'all's thoughts. And Rima,

[00:51:36] it's so nice hearing your voice after so long. Have really missed you. Oh, thank you. I really missed hearing from everyone. So thanks. Catherine Peters says, I'm not sure how Joe will be able to let Maddie survive. She seems to be extremely prepared for her imprisonment and able to keep up with Joe's mind games. I hope she does cooperate enough to take Reagan down. That woman is horrible. I think Bronte is going to be more than just another love interest.

[00:52:04] I wonder if Joe will somehow meet his end and she'll publish his writings as fiction under her name. Interesting theory. Interesting theory. I'm so excited. Strange Indeed is back. I'll be watching along weekly and hope you'll have time to cover Black Mirror after you. Oh, I love it when people keep up with us. Yeah. Thanks, Catherine. Okay. And we also got a voice message this week from our good friend, Steve.

[00:52:33] Let's see what he thought about this week's episode. Hello, Strange Indeed. This is Steve. And sorry I missed episode two. I'm watching it now and then I'll live, Steve, episode three when I get done. Okay. I wasn't going to comment on episode two, but this dinner party with all of the family is just hilarious in my opinion. Okay. And with that moment, you caged the wrong twin. We now start episode three. Okay. Wait, I'm sure you might've talked about this.

[00:53:01] I haven't listened to episode two's podcast yet, so I don't know, but okay. So he got Maddie's body, unconscious body out of the building and to his cage. What happened with Harrison and what is Harrison telling me? They're going to clear some of this up. I'm sure. I hope. Okay. And how much of this is he writing? Okay. Assuming we're in the real life. Now he's talking to Kate and Kate says that she's going to handle Reagan. Oh, and she just said Bronte just said imposter syndrome. The title of the episode, mic drop. Ooh,

[00:53:31] this Maddie is something else. He just turned the tables on Joe, uh, telling this kidnapping story and now reminding him about her insulin. Hmm. This romance thing between Bronte and Joe. I don't know. Oh, so Reagan is embezzling. Is that what, uh, uh, the brother-in-law just said or the, the, uh, half brother, right? What's his name? I can't remember. When Maddie is in, uh, insulin withdrawal. Oh, so Clayton, the ex-boyfriend maybe. I don't know.

[00:54:01] Okay. So Harrison made it out of the closet apparently. And that whole scene in the writer's salon with Bronte and Clayton. And that was weird. Ooh, but apparently Reagan found out something cause he's leaving. Oh, so security found him and she figured out everything. So that conversation between, uh, Reagan and Kate, uh, wow. Kate's, Reagan's vulnerability there. Anna, Anna camp, really good. Ooh. And Maddie's more afraid of Reagan than dying. All right.

[00:54:29] A lot of revelations there that Maddie told Joe and I can't go into all of them. I'm sure you'll cover them. Okay. Classic line of the episode. Don't let one come wave. Stop you. Oh, and going back to the book that he wrote, uh, for going to bear for Beck. Uh, is this real? Did Bronte really just come to him or is this in his fantasy? Uh, yeah, it's just in his head and he's at his typewriter. You, Oh, is this Reagan pretending to be Maddie on a live broadcast? And he said imposter syndrome,

[00:54:59] mic drop again. I'm going to send this in. Hopefully I get it in time. Hmm. It's great. He did. And it was great. And I'm glad that we're on the same wave wave. I didn't mean to do wave wavelength on the quote of the episode. Great minds. Thank you everyone for writing in sending a voicemail. Uh, we welcome it all. It's so great to hear from all of you again. Um, keep,

[00:55:28] keep sending it in. If you have feedback for a past episode, if you know, like I said, I know I was kind of slow about getting, um, posts up for that. So feel free. If you've got a past episode there that, uh, you wanted to let us know, uh, what you were thinking about, you know, uh, that episode, then, you know, you, you can still, still let us know. We'll cover it. Absolutely. Next week, we're going to be covering episode four of you titled my fair Maddie.

[00:56:00] Cannot wait to cover that one. Um, I think, I think it'll be good. Yeah. I hope I'm, I'm really digging this, this last season. I know, I know we've got a lot of things like, Oh, here we go again with Joe kind of going in and some of the same old patterns again. But I do find the characters interesting, you know, Joe's a little different than when he has been in past seasons. So there's some differences there and I'm, I'm definitely digging, digging all of it. Oh, yes. Awesome. Well, if you'd like to write in, leave us a message, uh,

[00:56:30] like the others did there, we'd love to hear from you. And as Rima said, even on previous episodes, or even if you watch ahead of us, there's, there's posts up for all the different episodes. You can leave stuff on those, uh, accordingly. And we'll get to them when we get to those episodes, but we just love to hear from you. So of course we're on Facebook if you're there, but then also if you need contact information for voicemails and emails, all of that stuff, just go to podcastica.com and you can find everything you need. And while you're there,

[00:56:58] be sure to check out our other shows, a lot of great things. I know we've been hyping up, you know, uh, a lot of the different podcasts that are, are being covered. So the cast of us is going strong, uh, covering season two of the last of us, you know, we're kind of in the middle of the series there, you know, kind of almost getting to the halfway mark. So a lot of great contact, uh, content happening there. Yeah. I,

[00:57:26] I hate that it's only seven episodes cause I need so much more. Uh, yeah, hopefully we won't have to wait as long between seasons two and three. Uh, but it's so good. I'm loving it. And coverage has been great between Jason and Ben and Eric and you on one of the episodes as well. I know I got to guess. Fantastic. Thanks. Yeah. Well, it was good to kind of step back into that, that again and, and chat about that show. It's always a good time. Um, but yeah,

[00:57:56] they, they do a phenomenal job covering that. I mean, all the podcast again, my opinion, maybe a little biased, but I believe it to be true, you know, is phenomenal. And or is being covered. That's going on right now too, right? You were just talking about getting caught up on those episodes. So yeah, I still need to watch this third arc episodes, seven, eight, nine. That's probably on the docket tonight after the next episode of you for me is trying to get through what I can of that. Yeah.

[00:58:25] fantastic show and fantastic coverage. And then, uh, Handmaid's Tale. Coverage and stuff going on right now. You go check out that podcast. Uh, so a lot of stuff with new shows and then even like throwback rewatch stuff, give some love to Penny and Cara and Sam that are doing stuff with, uh, still slaying the Buffy podcast. If you're a Buffy fan, just definitely go check out what they're doing over there. Mm. What about you and Daphne over on run for your lives? Anything you want to tease this week? Uh,

[00:58:55] yeah. So we've got our children of the corn episode up now that you can listen to. Um, and then this weekend, so this is kind of people get a little sneak peek. Um, we upload on Fridays. So on Friday, you'll be able to check out the next one. Uh, we are going back to a 2007 James Wan film called dead silence. It's about, um, an evil possessed, uh, ventriloquist dummy. Uh, okay. Terrifying and fun.

[00:59:25] Uh, James Wan is a really great filmmaker. Oh yeah. I enjoy his work. So I haven't seen that, but you know, I enjoy his, uh, other films that I've seen. And so that's probably, probably too scary for me. If I have to guess compared to like, if I compare it to like some of his other work, right. Especially anything involving a doll. Like I think I'm out. It's creepy for sure, but it's a fun one. So yeah.

[00:59:55] Uh, so yeah, you can check that out this weekend. Uh, always have a blast over there with that. Awesome. All good stuff. Yeah. So make sure you go ahead and subscribe to this podcast. If you're not already give us likes comments, reviews, all of those things. We really appreciate it. Spotify now has the ability to leave comments and stuff on the specific episodes. Nice. So you can do that. As well. And we may be able to check on those and look through those if you do. Um,

[01:00:25] so yeah. And then once you've given us the proper love, then you can go check out all those other shows we talked about too, and give them some love as well as anything that, uh, piques your interest. And, uh, yeah, we really appreciate that. Thanks in advance. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. Until next time I'm Rima and I'm bake and Catherine Peters is strange. Indeed.