20. "Eldest" (S2E4)

The 'Cast of the Rings: A Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power PodcastSeptember 10, 2024

20

02:12:45121.54 MB

20. "Eldest" (S2E4)

20. "Eldest" (S2E4)

20. "Eldest" (S2E4)

Penny LennoxHost

Anwen Carver Holtshousen

Anwen Carver HoltshousenHost

Greetings mysterious hermits, Shepherds of the Forest, and reanimated King corpses!

Join Anwen and Penny as we discuss Rings of Power season 2, episode 4, “Eldest”in which

We go further into Rhun and find out why the Harfoots wander
We discover that Barrow wights are as scary on screen as on the page
Tom Bombadil….he is Eldest, he is mysterious, he is awesome
Arondir and Isildur reawaken our Gen X quicksand issues
We FINALLY meet an Entwife!

Send your feedback to talk@podcastica.com and add your voice to the conversation!

Namárië

News from this week:
Who Is Camnir in 'The Rings of Power'? Calam Lynch's Character,
Explained. | The Mary Sue

What Creature Attacks Isildur In The Rings Of Power Season 2, Episode 4? Tolkien's Nameless Things Explained

For those wanting to explore further, you can find an encyclopedia of everything from Tolkien’s works here: glyphweb.com.

To explore the world of Middle Earth portrayed in the books and on screen, go to: lotr.fandom.com

For even more Tolkien goodness, try this fan wiki Tolkien Gateway

You can find our contact info and all our other shows at: podcastica.com

Music: Now We Ride by Alexander Nakarada (www.serpentsoundstudios.com) Licensed under Creative Commons BY Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

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[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah!

[00:00:03] Hmm.

[00:00:04] Podcastica

[00:00:05] You believe...

[00:00:08] His evil will spread?

[00:00:11] Not without an ally, far more powerful even than himself.

[00:00:17] Sauron.

[00:00:21] If these two flames combine into one,

[00:00:25] there will be no end to burn in till all Middle-earth is ashes.

[00:00:34] Can you...

[00:00:35] Stop it.

[00:00:39] Old Tom's a wanderer, not a warrior.

[00:00:42] Great deeds are left to the hands they were placed in.

[00:00:48] And I shall gather lilies while yet they grow.

[00:00:54] You mean...

[00:00:56] You mean my hands?

[00:01:10] Is it my task to stop the fire?

[00:01:14] Is it my task to face Sauron?

[00:01:20] Your task...

[00:01:22] Is to face them both.

[00:02:03] Greetings mysterious hermits, shepherds of the forest and reanimated king corpses.

[00:02:08] Welcome to our podcast. I'm Ann Wynn.

[00:02:11] And I'm Penny.

[00:02:12] And this is The Cast of the Rings Episode 20.

[00:02:15] This episode we're going to be covering Season 2 Episode 4 of The Rings of Power, titled Eldest.

[00:02:24] And another action-packed episode.

[00:02:26] Last week I thought to myself, hmm, this is so much set up.

[00:02:30] Heaps of new characters, lots to talk about surely from now on we're going to be getting into action.

[00:02:34] And I feel like this episode combined the action with even more new characters and more new exciting things to talk about.

[00:02:41] So it's going to be dense.

[00:02:43] Yeah. It was very plot heavy.

[00:02:45] It was like, and then this happened, and then that happened, and then that happened.

[00:02:49] Not a ton of like, like last week we had a, you know, these character development type conversations.

[00:02:57] This was more of a plot moving forward kind of an episode.

[00:03:01] Definitely all the pieces being put into place and we're now halfway through the season.

[00:03:06] So we've got the last half of the season will be all of the action kicking in, which is great.

[00:03:11] I'm liking it more and more every episode.

[00:03:13] So the first couple was kind of like, yep, this is a set up.

[00:03:17] I'm getting used to it again.

[00:03:19] And I was kind of, yeah, this is good.

[00:03:21] And episode three and four for me have just been outstanding.

[00:03:24] Absolutely loved them.

[00:03:25] Yeah. My only complaint about this episode was that we weren't back in New Menor.

[00:03:30] I was like, what's happening in New Menor?

[00:03:34] Wait a minute.

[00:03:35] I need to visit all the characters.

[00:03:37] Especially with that cliffhanger.

[00:03:39] I mean, it's kind of like you want to go straight into what happens next.

[00:03:42] The eagle flies away as Farrah's on the boss.

[00:03:44] Now what's going to happen?

[00:03:45] Yeah, exactly.

[00:03:47] That's exciting.

[00:03:48] Hopefully next week.

[00:03:50] Yeah.

[00:03:50] See how we go.

[00:03:52] All right.

[00:03:53] So, um, oh my goodness.

[00:03:55] I don't even know where to start.

[00:03:56] Where should we start today?

[00:03:58] Let's let's go for Tom Bombadil and the stranger and that whole storyline.

[00:04:06] I did a little reading and I know Laura is really your thing,

[00:04:09] but I wanted to remind myself what I already knew about Tom Bombadil,

[00:04:16] which is not much,

[00:04:17] but he's featured in an early part of the fellowship with the ring where

[00:04:23] Frodo and his Mary band of, of cousins and gardeners happened upon him

[00:04:29] in what's called, I think the old forest.

[00:04:33] You know,

[00:04:34] not a very exciting name and, and he is quite a eccentric character.

[00:04:45] It's, he has Frodo like lets him hold the ring and he like plays games with it

[00:04:50] and like throws it around and it doesn't seem to affect him at all.

[00:04:53] So that's the main thing we know about Tom's power is that he's,

[00:04:59] he's sort of outside of the rest of these people.

[00:05:02] He's not the same as any other race that we know.

[00:05:05] Yeah, that's exactly it.

[00:05:07] He's quite an enigma and in fact there's kind of varying thoughts and theories

[00:05:12] on what he actually is because you're right, he doesn't have that same.

[00:05:17] He's not affected by the ring in the same way.

[00:05:19] So yeah, he sort of plays with it and throws it around.

[00:05:22] And when, when Frodo wears the ring, he can see Frodo,

[00:05:26] which is unusual because most to most people there,

[00:05:29] when you wear the ring, you go into this shadow realm and people can't see you.

[00:05:33] And then when Tom tries it on, he doesn't disappear, which is pretty powerful.

[00:05:38] Even, even Gandalf is not immune to the ring in that kind of way.

[00:05:42] So it's, it's, it's yeah, he's super powerful.

[00:05:44] And then he's got other powers as well.

[00:05:46] And I loved how in this introduction to him,

[00:05:49] we see quite a few of those powers right away and his greatest powers,

[00:05:53] power is his singing.

[00:05:54] And I love that they've transferred this over to this show from, from the books.

[00:05:59] And that scene where he's a couple of scenes where he helps the Hobbits out

[00:06:03] and the Fellowship of the Ring.

[00:06:05] He controls old man, Man Willow, and he controls the Barry whites.

[00:06:10] And so it was really cool that in this one episode we get to see the two of those.

[00:06:14] So it's kind of showing you a little bit of Bombardil's power.

[00:06:18] I loved how-

[00:06:19] Right, well, man, iron, iron wood, right?

[00:06:21] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:23] And he did the Barrow White song,

[00:06:27] but he was just sort of like singing it to himself, I think.

[00:06:32] Yeah, this is where watching it with the subtitles is fantastic.

[00:06:36] Because sometimes when someone's just singing in the background,

[00:06:39] you don't take the words in so much,

[00:06:40] but when you see them on the screen,

[00:06:42] you can really see them and understand where they're from.

[00:06:45] I really thought it was great when he,

[00:06:47] when the stranger comes and meets him.

[00:06:49] And I love that the first shot we see of him is his back,

[00:06:54] and then he sort of pauses and turns around slowly.

[00:06:57] And I think that's the showrunners and directors

[00:07:00] paying tribute to the fact that this is such an important beloved character

[00:07:04] that they were like,

[00:07:05] the audience has been waiting for decades to see this guy.

[00:07:09] And here he is.

[00:07:11] So turned around and it was super slow.

[00:07:13] It was great.

[00:07:15] And he introduced himself to the stranger as Tom Bombardil,

[00:07:18] which I thought was interesting because we've talked about

[00:07:21] before he's known by different names from all the different creatures

[00:07:25] in Middle Earth.

[00:07:26] The elves call him Erwin Benadar,

[00:07:29] which I thought was quite cool because his little lamb

[00:07:31] was called Erwin.

[00:07:33] So that was kind of cool.

[00:07:33] Oh, I didn't catch that.

[00:07:34] That's Doral.

[00:07:35] Men called him Orald and dwarves call him Faun.

[00:07:39] But he introduces himself as Tom Bombardil.

[00:07:41] And I like the way they didn't just go,

[00:07:44] oh hey, I'm Tom Bombardil.

[00:07:45] He mentioned sort of where he's known by that name.

[00:07:49] So he talked about being known by that name in the Wiffy window.

[00:07:52] And that's where we find him in the fallow ship of the ring.

[00:07:56] It's a tributary of the Brandywine River,

[00:07:58] which we see in Lord of the Rings that goes through the Old Forest.

[00:08:00] So he mentions sort of where he's from,

[00:08:02] but that he does move around, which I liked.

[00:08:05] I thought that was cool.

[00:08:07] And then as soon as I saw the tree and then

[00:08:09] the map kind of flies around and then gets stuck on the branch

[00:08:14] of the tree and then the stranger goes to grab it.

[00:08:17] And then you hear that creaking sound and I was like,

[00:08:20] oh, that's a live tree sound.

[00:08:23] And he gets sucked into the tree and I was like,

[00:08:25] oh my God, it's Old Man Willow.

[00:08:27] But wait, that's not a Willow tree.

[00:08:28] What are they doing?

[00:08:30] And then I just love how they made that be a tribute

[00:08:32] to Old Man Willow.

[00:08:33] So he even mentions it.

[00:08:35] But he says it's Old Man Ironwood, which is great.

[00:08:37] And Tom rescues the stranger by saying,

[00:08:40] you should not be waking.

[00:08:41] Eat Earth, dig deep, drink water, go to sleep.

[00:08:45] And that's what the exact lines that he uses on Old Man Willow

[00:08:48] and the Fellowship of the Ring.

[00:08:49] And in the movies, because they didn't have that whole sequence

[00:08:53] with Tom Bombadil, they sort of paid tribute a little bit

[00:08:57] to that by Tree Beard using that line with Mary and Pippin.

[00:09:01] So I thought that was a really nice tie back to the books

[00:09:04] and to the movies as well.

[00:09:05] It was beautiful.

[00:09:06] I really enjoyed, I feel like, you know,

[00:09:10] they have not confirmed that this is Gandalf,

[00:09:12] although they really signaled it this episode

[00:09:16] in a way that I actually thought was pretty cheesy.

[00:09:19] The way that his mannerisms are more and more starting

[00:09:23] to resemble the Ian McKellen portrayal of Gandalf,

[00:09:27] there's just like a body language thing that he's doing

[00:09:32] and something about his phrasing is becoming

[00:09:35] more and more familiar to me.

[00:09:38] But he's still, you know, he's kind of out of it.

[00:09:41] Right?

[00:09:41] He's like, oh, my piece of paper flew away.

[00:09:44] And like he wasn't prepared for the tree.

[00:09:47] And the Gandalf we know would never like get sucked into a tree.

[00:09:53] Right?

[00:09:53] Like he's just, he's too powerful and he's too aware

[00:09:56] of the world around him.

[00:09:57] But it's so fun to see, like, it's like he's a baby,

[00:10:02] even though he looks like an older man.

[00:10:04] He's like a little kid version of Gandalf

[00:10:06] and he doesn't know anything yet.

[00:10:08] And it's like, it's a little bit of a mind game

[00:10:11] to put the two together in my head.

[00:10:14] I like this game.

[00:10:15] But it's also almost a bit like a treat.

[00:10:18] Like we know Gandalf has this extremely wise

[00:10:21] and powerful being, but he had to start somewhere.

[00:10:25] And obviously he started as a Maya.

[00:10:27] So here's a very powerful spirit.

[00:10:29] But the whole point of sending the Maya to Middle Earth

[00:10:32] as a starry was that they almost did start again.

[00:10:34] They didn't know that they were Maya.

[00:10:36] They didn't know their own power and they had to learn

[00:10:39] and be a bit bumbling at the start to kind of sink

[00:10:42] into Middle Earth and to be part of it

[00:10:44] because that was their role.

[00:10:45] They weren't there as these extremely powerful

[00:10:48] spirits to fix and change everything.

[00:10:50] They were there to just be part of the world

[00:10:52] and to guide the people that were in the world.

[00:10:54] So I think it's great that we get to see the start of that.

[00:10:56] And yeah, it's Gandalf.

[00:10:58] It's 100% Gandalf.

[00:10:59] I don't have a hat right now, but I'll eat my hat

[00:11:02] if that's not Gandalf.

[00:11:04] That's for sure.

[00:11:06] And I do love seeing all this stuff.

[00:11:08] I think it's great.

[00:11:09] And seeing the way he interacts with Tom Bombadil

[00:11:13] is really good because we've only sort of seen him

[00:11:17] with the half-oots and they've got this nice relationship

[00:11:21] and they're travelling together.

[00:11:22] But this episode and these scenes with Bombadil

[00:11:25] just gave him so much more depth

[00:11:27] and understanding for himself and for us

[00:11:29] of what he's there for and what he's supposed to be doing.

[00:11:33] And the interactions, I thought the acting of the two of them

[00:11:37] and that chemistry between them was so great.

[00:11:40] And I just think, yeah, the way they've portrayed

[00:11:44] Tom Bombadil on screen, I could not be happier.

[00:11:47] I just think he's doing such an incredible job.

[00:11:51] There's just this thing about him that is...

[00:11:54] And I knew that Rory Kinnear would be able to carry this off

[00:11:59] just because of all of the other things that I've seen him in

[00:12:02] where he's got this kind of lightness and this humour to him,

[00:12:07] but he also has this...

[00:12:09] You understand that he's really that age

[00:12:11] and that he carries the weight of that great age

[00:12:14] and that great wisdom while he still sort of remains whimsical.

[00:12:17] I just think that's very clever acting, really great.

[00:12:19] I thought it was interesting that they gave him a West Country accent

[00:12:25] and we'll talk about that too with the stores when they come along later,

[00:12:28] but so the Halfwoods are all Irish

[00:12:32] and then you go here into the East and they all got this...

[00:12:36] So West Country in the UK is sort of like Cornwall, Devon kind of area

[00:12:43] and they sound a bit like Hagrid if you know your Harry Potter.

[00:12:46] It's all a bit like that, isn't it?

[00:12:48] And Bombardill is a little bit like that,

[00:12:51] but he sounds...

[00:12:53] He's got a different little term as well.

[00:12:55] I just love to have sort of like...

[00:12:57] Oh, just there was something about his accent that was quite fascinating.

[00:13:03] He slows down on words at a little bit unpredictable times

[00:13:09] and it gives all of his language a musical quality.

[00:13:14] Yes.

[00:13:15] It was odd for me.

[00:13:17] I was like, what?

[00:13:19] What am I listening to?

[00:13:21] Like, what is he doing?

[00:13:22] And then when I stopped trying to identify the accent,

[00:13:26] I just was like, okay, it's a unique thing.

[00:13:28] I didn't recognize it as West Country,

[00:13:29] but I was like, no, it's cool.

[00:13:32] He doesn't sound like anyone else we've met in Middle Earth.

[00:13:35] Yeah, and I think it makes you...

[00:13:37] When it's not just a really standard accent

[00:13:40] like it's copied off someone else,

[00:13:41] it does make you stop and pay attention and go,

[00:13:44] wow, what is this guy saying and where is he coming from?

[00:13:47] It makes him sound more interesting and more wise somehow.

[00:13:51] I loved that.

[00:13:53] Yeah, so...

[00:13:54] Stayed apart.

[00:13:55] Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:56] Different and he should be because he is.

[00:13:58] He's completely different.

[00:13:59] We do know that he's ancient,

[00:14:01] so he's of unknown origin.

[00:14:04] Some believe that he's Valar or one of the Maya

[00:14:07] and other people describe him as being the living embodiment

[00:14:11] of Earth or time.

[00:14:13] There's heaps of theories out there.

[00:14:15] I did a bit of reading and it's really interesting to see.

[00:14:19] One of the interesting theories,

[00:14:20] and I quite liked this on screen,

[00:14:22] was some people think he's the embodiment of Eru on Earth,

[00:14:26] so the embodiment of God.

[00:14:28] And I guess you could see that as being quite Jesus-like as well.

[00:14:31] And interesting that they have him holding a lamb in this episode.

[00:14:36] And yeah, I know some people were saying it.

[00:14:38] They feel like he's like Aslan in the Narnia stories,

[00:14:42] but less obvious, you know,

[00:14:43] because Aslan is very, you know,

[00:14:45] they're literally crucified.

[00:14:47] How many comes back?

[00:14:50] But...

[00:14:50] It also reminded me of there's a character in the Narnia books

[00:14:54] who lives in a walled garden that's on the edge

[00:14:58] of like the north and the south parts of that world.

[00:15:03] And this garden is a place where animals come if they need help.

[00:15:08] And he can talk to animals and speak their language,

[00:15:12] and it's a little bit out of time,

[00:15:14] but he has healing powers,

[00:15:16] but he stays out of the affairs of men,

[00:15:19] but he knows things and he's a guide.

[00:15:22] I'm like, I know Tolkien and Lewis were friends.

[00:15:25] Yeah, good call.

[00:15:27] Did they talk to each other about this

[00:15:28] or was this like that came from the same idea?

[00:15:32] It's very similar to me.

[00:15:34] That's where you want to be a fly on the wall

[00:15:35] and go back to that pub in England

[00:15:37] and sit there and listen to them,

[00:15:39] because they did.

[00:15:40] They used to meet together and discuss their writings

[00:15:42] and try out story ideas on each other,

[00:15:44] so it's no surprise at all

[00:15:46] that there's a lot of similarities between them.

[00:15:49] So, you know, this whole idea of him being like Jesus

[00:15:51] or like God is interesting,

[00:15:53] and a lot of people have kind of posited that,

[00:15:55] but Tolkien actually denied that.

[00:15:58] So there's a quote from Tolkien

[00:16:00] where he said in one letter that he wrote,

[00:16:03] because a reader put forward this theory

[00:16:05] and said, oh, it's Trombon Biddlegod,

[00:16:07] and he actually wrote in a letter,

[00:16:09] I really do think that you're being too serious

[00:16:11] besides missing the point.

[00:16:12] There is no embodiment of the one of God

[00:16:15] who indeed remains remote outside the world.

[00:16:18] So he kind of denied it, but I mean,

[00:16:19] there are elements of it that definitely look like

[00:16:22] he's separate, he's outside.

[00:16:25] It could be that he's one of the Ainur,

[00:16:27] so that's those angelic beings

[00:16:28] that were created with the music sort of before the Valar

[00:16:31] or became the Valar.

[00:16:33] The one idea that I really liked the look of was

[00:16:36] someone said there's lots of theories,

[00:16:38] but the best recommendation is that he's perhaps

[00:16:41] best enjoyed with the philosophy.

[00:16:43] Don't try to understand it, feel it.

[00:16:45] And I love that about Trombon Biddle,

[00:16:47] because you do feel it like you do,

[00:16:49] for me particularly he did have an effect on me

[00:16:52] that I had all these feelings

[00:16:53] and I didn't know what they were,

[00:16:54] and I really enjoyed that.

[00:16:55] I was like, oh, and I actually had to watch,

[00:16:58] I watched this scene so many times

[00:17:00] that I had to kind of pause it after every sentence

[00:17:02] to kind of analyze the sentence and what does that mean?

[00:17:04] Because it's just so dense and laden with meaning

[00:17:06] that it was, you can't just like skip past that.

[00:17:11] It's so important.

[00:17:13] It's so great.

[00:17:14] And I love how he was always singing.

[00:17:15] That's also really true to the book.

[00:17:17] And when he says to the stranger,

[00:17:22] don't you know my name yet?

[00:17:23] That's the only answer.

[00:17:25] And that's after he's told the stranger his name.

[00:17:28] So he's told him that he's Bombadil,

[00:17:29] but he says, don't you know my name yet?

[00:17:31] That's the only answer.

[00:17:32] And I love that.

[00:17:34] Does that mean that the stranger doesn't know Tom yet

[00:17:36] because he doesn't remember his true self

[00:17:38] and he doesn't remember his own name?

[00:17:40] Or is it kind of that God, Jesus-like response

[00:17:43] like my name is the only answer?

[00:17:45] That was so fascinating.

[00:17:46] There's a really interesting piece of writing for that.

[00:17:51] And he, when the stranger asks him to teach him the magic

[00:17:56] and he says, what is there to learn way out here?

[00:17:59] All things belong to themselves just as you belong to yourself.

[00:18:03] Was it staff is like a name?

[00:18:05] It's yours to weld already if you prove yourself worthy.

[00:18:11] And then the stranger saying,

[00:18:13] well I wasn't meant to find a staff.

[00:18:15] I was meant to find you.

[00:18:16] And it was just this moment where you think,

[00:18:17] oh wow, okay what's he here for?

[00:18:19] What is he going to learn from him?

[00:18:21] And Tom says that the stranger is not the first a star.

[00:18:26] Years ago there was another and he seeks to control

[00:18:29] Rune with an ally even more powerful.

[00:18:32] And you know that obviously talking about

[00:18:34] the dark wizard allying with Sauron.

[00:18:37] What did you think about that,

[00:18:38] about Tom having met the dark wizard before

[00:18:41] and what his background was?

[00:18:44] It makes sense that you would have met

[00:18:45] the dark wizard before and it's possible

[00:18:49] that he's met every wizard that's ever been sent

[00:18:53] to Middle Earth.

[00:18:54] And that he's sort of like wizard college.

[00:18:59] You know, like you go to Tom Bombadale

[00:19:01] you land somewhere else.

[00:19:04] I think that's very intentional.

[00:19:06] The stranger landed in a completely different place

[00:19:09] so that he had to learn about Middle Earth

[00:19:11] and some basic skills before he gets to Tom

[00:19:17] who can teach him, take him to the next level.

[00:19:21] And maybe that's what happened to the dark wizard too

[00:19:26] and for whatever reason the dark wizard

[00:19:31] is power hungry.

[00:19:34] And it sounded like maybe Tom Bombadale

[00:19:38] caught on to the dark wizard being power hungry

[00:19:41] pretty early on and showed him the door.

[00:19:45] And he's kind of warning the stranger like

[00:19:48] if you're not worthy I won't finish your education

[00:19:51] like you'll be gone too.

[00:19:54] This makes me think he's not a Maya

[00:19:56] that he's some other kind of creature

[00:19:59] if he's not one of the Valar that he's like

[00:20:04] something else that has a different kind of power

[00:20:09] he's not afraid of the wizard at all.

[00:20:12] Gandalf has all this power or the stranger

[00:20:14] whatever his name is, has all this power

[00:20:17] and Tom Bombadale doesn't seem concerned about that

[00:20:20] in the least.

[00:20:22] No, and he shows his own power very casually

[00:20:27] and he doesn't go ha ha look at me look how powerful I am

[00:20:30] but he gets him out of the willow

[00:20:32] he turns that map into bread just right before the stranger's eyes

[00:20:36] he lights all the candles at once

[00:20:38] there's that moment where he yawns and the whole fire flares up

[00:20:41] and the stranger's yes to it

[00:20:44] you know you've got all these powers

[00:20:45] can you teach me kind of thing and yeah I like the idea

[00:20:48] that he's quite separate and it doesn't have to be explained

[00:20:51] I don't want it to be fully explained

[00:20:53] that's what Tom Bombadale is in the stories

[00:20:54] and I think it's up to people to take their own interpretation

[00:20:58] of that and we just see the effects of it by the characters

[00:21:02] that he's going to interact with

[00:21:04] so that was really really great

[00:21:07] I love that we hear Goldberry in the background

[00:21:10] but we don't see her she's not there

[00:21:12] we just hear her singing

[00:21:13] and then he denies that there's anybody else there

[00:21:16] I thought that was really cool

[00:21:17] I just think they're obviously not going to have Goldberry

[00:21:20] in this part of the story

[00:21:23] but that again was a nod to her

[00:21:25] and I think that was really cool

[00:21:26] so Goldberry was Tom's wife

[00:21:28] she was a river spirit

[00:21:30] and she was in the withy window

[00:21:32] and she pulled Tom into the water

[00:21:35] underneath the water lilies out of Mistiff

[00:21:37] but he basically said nah stop let me go

[00:21:40] and then he was quite taken with her

[00:21:41] so he went back the next day

[00:21:44] and asked her to be his wife

[00:21:45] apparently all the creatures of the old forest

[00:21:48] attended their wedding

[00:21:49] and then it was when he was going down to the river

[00:21:53] to collect water lilies for her

[00:21:55] that was when he discovered Frodo and his companions

[00:21:57] and rescued them

[00:21:59] and so there's this theme with water lilies

[00:22:01] with Goldberry which is really cool

[00:22:04] so I love how he says a line

[00:22:07] I shall gather lilies, yeah yet they grow

[00:22:09] and I thought it was great

[00:22:10] they've mentioned Goldberry and the mention of lilies

[00:22:12] and it was just beautiful

[00:22:13] I wanted to know where he was going to gather those lilies in Rune

[00:22:17] I mean I know he seems to have water

[00:22:19] but I haven't seen a river

[00:22:23] I guess it was maybe more of a metaphor

[00:22:26] about water lilies

[00:22:28] and when he goes back to another part of the world

[00:22:31] where there's more greenery

[00:22:33] he could go back to literally collecting water lilies

[00:22:35] exactly, yeah that was very cool

[00:22:38] I thought the tree was amazing

[00:22:40] I loved the tree

[00:22:42] just being like I'm gonna take you

[00:22:45] and then when he reaches in it

[00:22:47] and he doesn't just rescue the stranger

[00:22:50] he pulls him out and throws him on the ground

[00:22:53] which was so funny

[00:22:54] and then the bat seeing

[00:22:56] I wasn't ready for him to be a little like

[00:22:59] you're filthy, like wash yourself

[00:23:01] I thought here's this wise, timeless

[00:23:05] eternal powerful being

[00:23:07] and he's like I tried to clean your robe

[00:23:09] it's filthy, it's so gross

[00:23:12] like your hands are gross

[00:23:13] like clean yourself

[00:23:14] it was just hilarious to me

[00:23:18] it was such a grounded moment

[00:23:19] and also this acknowledgement that

[00:23:22] although the stranger looks like

[00:23:24] a large older man

[00:23:26] he is a child and needs to be

[00:23:29] educated about the world

[00:23:31] so funny and the looks on the stranger's face

[00:23:34] like dirty is a bad thing

[00:23:36] horrible

[00:23:38] it's such a contradiction

[00:23:40] the looks of him

[00:23:41] and the behavior of him

[00:23:43] same with Tom but in different ways

[00:23:45] like there's all these contradictions

[00:23:48] and the way he's acting

[00:23:51] from Daniel Wayman is amazing

[00:23:53] he plays a stranger because

[00:23:55] to combine that innocence

[00:23:57] with that sort of bumbling older man

[00:24:00] look

[00:24:01] whilst also channeling

[00:24:04] Ian McKellen's performance of Gandalf

[00:24:06] I think it's masterful, I think it's really great

[00:24:09] and it's developing every single episode

[00:24:11] so in the beginning and I know especially in season 1

[00:24:13] some people found it quite frustrating

[00:24:14] and I think before he began to speak

[00:24:17] I didn't quite know how to take him

[00:24:19] but I like that we've seen that evolution

[00:24:20] and that he is becoming more and more

[00:24:23] who he's supposed to be

[00:24:25] which is great and yeah it is

[00:24:27] so leading up to him getting his stuff

[00:24:29] he's Gandalf and he's getting his stuff

[00:24:30] this season I'm telling you

[00:24:31] from that tree

[00:24:34] that's his staff, that branch

[00:24:37] that was his staff

[00:24:38] but he has to learn how to speak to trees

[00:24:41] in order to get it

[00:24:42] yeah it was interesting how you said you have to

[00:24:44] why don't you just ask him

[00:24:47] you have that ability

[00:24:48] oh you don't know you have that ability

[00:24:50] yeah it's not there yet

[00:24:52] I thought it was interesting that

[00:24:56] what are they called, the Green Mode

[00:24:59] were arriving

[00:25:00] and Bombadil's like we're not alone

[00:25:03] and then

[00:25:04] we don't really get to see how that works out

[00:25:08] every episode has the cliffhanger

[00:25:10] they're not completely hidden

[00:25:11] it's interesting that his little valley

[00:25:13] or home area

[00:25:15] isn't like magically

[00:25:18] camouflaged or anything

[00:25:19] the Dark Wizard

[00:25:21] and the

[00:25:21] is it Grimoire am I getting that right

[00:25:24] the Goudrem

[00:25:27] it's the right letters

[00:25:28] I just have them mixed up, Goudrem

[00:25:30] they referenced him they called him the Hermit

[00:25:33] yeah

[00:25:33] and I was like oh so they know he's there

[00:25:36] they've seen him

[00:25:37] he interacts with the world around him

[00:25:39] when I looked up

[00:25:40] the stuff from Fellowship of the Ring

[00:25:42] there was this whole thing about how like yeah

[00:25:45] he goes to the Prancing Pony

[00:25:46] he brought the

[00:25:48] the wayward horses back to the Prancing Pony

[00:25:51] and sold them back to

[00:25:53] Bill and you know the Hobbits

[00:25:55] know him and I was like oh

[00:25:57] he's not like a complete Hermit

[00:25:59] he interacts with the world

[00:26:01] and people know he's there

[00:26:05] I'm sure it's purposeful

[00:26:07] I'm sure everything that he does

[00:26:09] is purposeful if he doesn't want to be seen

[00:26:10] he won't be seen and if there's a reason

[00:26:12] or benefit of him being seen then he will be

[00:26:14] I think that's where it comes from

[00:26:15] they're talking about Bombadil

[00:26:19] yeah

[00:26:19] but the Goudrem knew where he was

[00:26:21] yeah for sure

[00:26:25] yeah well while we're

[00:26:26] there in the east shall we talk

[00:26:28] about the stores

[00:26:29] yes first of all their leader

[00:26:33] I know this

[00:26:34] this actor she was in silo

[00:26:36] and she was fantastic in silo

[00:26:38] and I was

[00:26:41] thrilled to see her on screen

[00:26:42] I didn't look at as much

[00:26:44] of the pre-season materials

[00:26:47] as you did so I

[00:26:48] had not seen a picture of her

[00:26:50] I didn't know what to expect

[00:26:52] and she was awesome

[00:26:54] she was so cool

[00:26:56] wasn't she great?

[00:26:57] Tanya Moody is the actor

[00:26:59] she was incredible

[00:27:00] I did find it interesting that they didn't put any of this stuff in the trailer

[00:27:04] so there's no stores at all

[00:27:06] so if you haven't spoiled yourself

[00:27:08] and you didn't

[00:27:09] I try also not to look at the

[00:27:11] on the next episode clip

[00:27:13] at the end of the episode because I don't want to know

[00:27:15] but I had seen a couple of articles

[00:27:17] and seen the pictures of her

[00:27:20] and yeah she looked amazing

[00:27:21] and the introduction to the

[00:27:23] you've got Nori and Poppy

[00:27:24] they tumble down this cliff

[00:27:26] and then they suddenly find Mary Mack

[00:27:29] or nobody as he is known

[00:27:32] I loved him

[00:27:33] he was so gorgeous

[00:27:34] he's played by Garvey Singh Chira

[00:27:37] and I just loved how he was

[00:27:39] there was this instant connection with them

[00:27:41] where they kind of understood

[00:27:42] that he was a

[00:27:45] they're all hobbits

[00:27:47] there's a different branch of the hobbits

[00:27:48] the stores

[00:27:49] and he and Poppy definitely had a moment

[00:27:53] oh they zinged

[00:27:54] they zinged for sure

[00:27:55] and Nori is sort of like

[00:27:57] oh there's a thing happening here

[00:27:59] I don't time for this

[00:28:00] the little facial expressions there was so beautiful

[00:28:03] and his four rules

[00:28:05] he goes A, B

[00:28:07] and then no he goes 1, B

[00:28:09] and then 4

[00:28:11] wait was that four rules

[00:28:13] I wasn't paying attention

[00:28:14] I wasn't paying attention

[00:28:17] that was really cool

[00:28:18] and they go down and they see this

[00:28:20] incredible home

[00:28:22] that these stores have

[00:28:24] in a ravine

[00:28:26] and I love that long shot of the kind of whole valley

[00:28:29] and you can see these kind of channels

[00:28:30] or ravines, these canyons

[00:28:32] and they live inside one of those

[00:28:34] with all of their little houses and everything

[00:28:37] and when they

[00:28:38] Poppy and Nori are fascinated

[00:28:40] and I

[00:28:41] before I watched it with the subtitles

[00:28:44] I thought Nori said

[00:28:45] it's incredible as half what's living in

[00:28:48] holes

[00:28:48] and I thought she said homes

[00:28:50] but she actually says holes

[00:28:53] so I thought that was quite cool because

[00:28:54] that leads up to the later hobbit holes

[00:28:57] which is cool

[00:28:59] and they seem to

[00:29:00] they've got a really cool look to them

[00:29:02] they're kind of desert like

[00:29:04] and earthy and lots of browns and oranges

[00:29:06] and their hair seems to be a lot

[00:29:09] wilder and kind of even more mesh

[00:29:10] and sticky upy

[00:29:12] except for the goat or the

[00:29:14] the gant, the gant

[00:29:17] her hair was very regal

[00:29:18] the gunt

[00:29:19] I'm so bad with names

[00:29:22] the gunt, she had

[00:29:25] she had this sort of

[00:29:27] tricorner

[00:29:28] style going on

[00:29:30] and then her outfit was definitely

[00:29:33] like more impressive

[00:29:35] than everyone else's

[00:29:36] you have to be marked as the leader

[00:29:37] and one of the roses

[00:29:40] don't ever call her the gunt

[00:29:41] so her name is Gundubal Earthhauler

[00:29:43] and she's also known as the gunt

[00:29:46] or the Dwell leader but one of the roses

[00:29:48] don't call her gunt

[00:29:49] and I love how the rule that he forgot was

[00:29:52] don't give her back sass

[00:29:54] Poppy immediately has like

[00:29:56] be nicer

[00:29:57] it was so sweet that Poppy said

[00:30:00] said that because

[00:30:02] they were quite mean to him

[00:30:04] like you're so stupid

[00:30:06] if we put your brains in a vulture

[00:30:08] it would fly backwards, that's just mean

[00:30:10] Poppy's right

[00:30:11] and they call him nobody, I mean how bad is that?

[00:30:15] do they call him nobody

[00:30:16] or does he get confused

[00:30:18] when they say things like

[00:30:20] nobody's that stupid

[00:30:22] potentially

[00:30:23] he might actually be

[00:30:26] not with it

[00:30:28] that he thinks

[00:30:29] that they're calling him nobody even though

[00:30:32] possibly. His name is Merrimack

[00:30:34] yeah we'll see where that goes

[00:30:37] that's quite a cool little play on words for sure

[00:30:40] and they have their own

[00:30:42] sort of origin myth

[00:30:44] not really origin but this mythology

[00:30:46] or this legend or the story

[00:30:47] of Rory Moss Burroughs

[00:30:50] who left Rune based on a vision

[00:30:51] to find this sort of

[00:30:54] Edenic land

[00:30:56] for the stores to settle

[00:30:58] called the Suzat

[00:31:01] love this dream, this desert people

[00:31:04] who have this dream of this green

[00:31:06] soft

[00:31:08] earth place with water

[00:31:11] and you know she describes it

[00:31:12] to Nori and she's like does your

[00:31:14] home look like that and Nori's all sad

[00:31:16] and she's like we wander we don't really have a home

[00:31:18] but I wanted her to be like

[00:31:20] but it is green

[00:31:22] and we have access to water

[00:31:24] and stuff like yeah there are rivers

[00:31:26] yes like that stuff

[00:31:28] exists that's real we just don't have a

[00:31:30] settled place in it

[00:31:32] I thought there was like a little bit of a disconnect

[00:31:34] there like Rory wasn't understanding

[00:31:36] what was so special about greenery

[00:31:38] they didn't quite put all the pictures together

[00:31:40] but I think that

[00:31:41] that

[00:31:45] that the Goons

[00:31:48] reason for having that dream

[00:31:49] or for explaining the legend of it

[00:31:52] her focus is

[00:31:54] the green and the rivers

[00:31:56] whereas

[00:31:57] Nori takes that for granted and her focus

[00:31:59] is the settled home

[00:32:01] so they each do have what the other one doesn't

[00:32:03] have

[00:32:04] but you know this is really cool because this is

[00:32:07] the background of the Hobbits eventually

[00:32:09] moving to further west

[00:32:11] and settling the Shire

[00:32:13] that's both green and rivers

[00:32:15] and you can settle there and you can live in holes

[00:32:17] so it's like

[00:32:18] yeah it's literally combining

[00:32:21] these two cultures which is what we get later

[00:32:23] it's a little bit

[00:32:25] the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup ads from the

[00:32:28] your chocolate is in my peanut butter

[00:32:30] your peanut butter is in my chocolate and then they both

[00:32:33] try it and they're like

[00:32:34] we've really discovered something

[00:32:36] the perfect combo

[00:32:39] it's like you're living in

[00:32:41] holes you have greenery

[00:32:42] let's get together

[00:32:43] yeah it's cool and I like

[00:32:47] how they mentioned the name

[00:32:48] Suza so

[00:32:51] Suza actually

[00:32:52] means Shire

[00:32:53] in Westron the common speech of Middle Earth

[00:32:55] Suza is the word for Shire

[00:32:56] and Suzat is actually the Shire

[00:33:00] yeah but so that's

[00:33:01] like me being a little bit pedantic when they say the

[00:33:03] Suzat they're actually saying the Shire

[00:33:07] but we'll go with it

[00:33:08] so I love that they mention it but they don't say the word Shire

[00:33:10] so if you know the law then you know

[00:33:12] yep cool they actually are talking about the Shire

[00:33:14] which is great

[00:33:15] so I've got a little bit of background about the stores

[00:33:19] they are one of the three breeds of

[00:33:21] Hobbits that Tolkien writes about

[00:33:24] they were heavier and broader

[00:33:25] and build than most of the other Hobbits

[00:33:27] and they had large hands and feet

[00:33:29] and I also noticed in this that

[00:33:31] their ears were a bit bigger than the half foot

[00:33:33] ears and then the later Hobbits

[00:33:35] they were kind of a bit more chunkier

[00:33:38] they

[00:33:38] out of all the Hobbits they most resembled men

[00:33:41] and they were the most friendly to them

[00:33:42] they were the only Hobbits who sometimes grew

[00:33:45] facial here and the word store

[00:33:47] comes from the early English word store

[00:33:49] meaning large or strong

[00:33:51] so you had the half foot, the stores

[00:33:53] and then the fellow hides

[00:33:55] and the fellow hides we haven't met yet

[00:33:57] I wonder if we're going to get to meet them sometime

[00:33:59] in these five seasons because we've met the other two

[00:34:01] kind of proto Hobbits so maybe we will

[00:34:03] get to see the fellow hides later and the half

[00:34:05] foot and the fellow hides had

[00:34:07] a patriarchal family system but the

[00:34:09] storage Hobbits had a matriarch at the head of the family

[00:34:11] so that's just really cool that we're getting to see this

[00:34:13] female leader with these guys

[00:34:15] not that many Hobbits used to be able

[00:34:17] to swim and they were known to be afraid of rivers

[00:34:19] and boats and even more so the sea

[00:34:21] because a lot of them hadn't seen the sea

[00:34:23] but the stores preferred flat lands

[00:34:25] and riversides and their characteristics

[00:34:28] with the large build and the heavier feet

[00:34:30] and sometimes they're down on their chins

[00:34:32] could be seen amongst the Hobbits later

[00:34:35] in East Farthing in Buckland

[00:34:36] so the Brandy Bucks

[00:34:39] so a lot of the

[00:34:41] Hobbits that we see later in the Lord of the Rings

[00:34:43] they ended up being I guess descendants of these guys

[00:34:47] and they were the last

[00:34:49] of the three Hobbit types to cross over

[00:34:51] the Misty Mountains and go into Eriador

[00:34:53] which is that green lush area that we know with the Shire

[00:34:55] they lost contact with the other Hobbits

[00:34:57] and nothing else is known much about their culture after that

[00:35:00] and the cousins in the Shire

[00:35:02] they developed this kind of settled

[00:35:04] more elaborate social life

[00:35:05] but it's believed that the stores

[00:35:07] potentially reverted back to a bit more wild

[00:35:10] and primitive lifestyle which is kind of interesting

[00:35:11] we sort of see them here, yes they're settled

[00:35:13] but you know they're quite rugged

[00:35:14] later on they made boats out of reeds

[00:35:18] they fished and they swam

[00:35:20] so I quite like this

[00:35:24] that's tying into it, they're fascinated by water

[00:35:26] because obviously they're living there in the east

[00:35:27] and it's dry

[00:35:29] and they've got this dream of going somewhere

[00:35:31] where this river is just flowing through all the lands

[00:35:34] so it's quite cool

[00:35:35] how in their dreaming

[00:35:37] of this water and then later they become the water Hobbits

[00:35:40] and those are the ones who

[00:35:42] end up

[00:35:45] being the ancestors of

[00:35:46] Degel and Smeagol

[00:35:48] so Smeagol who became Gollum

[00:35:49] they discovered the one ring in the river

[00:35:52] so that's quite a cool little tie in as well

[00:35:58] yeah I just love the

[00:36:01] I love the back story

[00:36:02] and we don't know that much about the stores

[00:36:04] apart from what I've just sort of said

[00:36:06] that's the kind of potted version of what we know about them from the book

[00:36:09] but I like how they've established them as this

[00:36:11] people

[00:36:12] in the east that obviously

[00:36:15] they're pretty well off

[00:36:16] they're sitting there, they've got their homes

[00:36:18] they all look pretty well fed

[00:36:20] they've got green vegetables and they've got looks like a watering system

[00:36:23] with pipes and things like that

[00:36:25] but there's this legend of theirs

[00:36:28] that there's this other place that they can get to

[00:36:30] so they've sort of set that up nicely

[00:36:32] it was great

[00:36:35] and it also makes me think that possibly

[00:36:37] the strangers mission was twofold

[00:36:41] first to

[00:36:43] find Tom Bombadil and learn what he needs to learn

[00:36:46] so that he can

[00:36:48] oppose

[00:36:49] the spread of evil

[00:36:51] and also

[00:36:53] to sort of prompt the Harfuts

[00:36:55] and the stores to meet

[00:36:59] maybe that's why they, Maya

[00:37:01] sent him to where the Harfuts

[00:37:03] were I mean he landed like right outside their camp

[00:37:05] it seemed very intentional

[00:37:07] and they were like

[00:37:09] oh maybe this will get the

[00:37:11] Harfuts moving towards

[00:37:13] figure something out

[00:37:14] I don't know if the Maya are that intentional

[00:37:18] or the

[00:37:19] Valar are that intentional

[00:37:22] yeah I think

[00:37:24] I hope that all of this stuff with the Harfuts

[00:37:27] and the stores is there to

[00:37:29] help give background to the greater story

[00:37:32] and the characters that we know later

[00:37:33] in The Royal of the Rings

[00:37:34] I don't want them to play a big part in this

[00:37:36] story and this whole thing about Sauron

[00:37:38] and they shouldn't

[00:37:40] because

[00:37:41] that's one of the reasons in The Lord of the Rings

[00:37:44] that the Hobbits are able to slip past

[00:37:47] Sauron is that he just doesn't

[00:37:48] even pay any attention to them

[00:37:50] it's because they're inconsequential that they've been

[00:37:52] able to do that they can kind of be the secret

[00:37:54] weapon against him and if

[00:37:56] they play any part in the battles

[00:37:58] against Sauron in these few seasons

[00:38:00] I just don't think it's going to work I think it's more

[00:38:02] yeah maybe to stay

[00:38:03] a vehicle or

[00:38:06] under the radar it's a way for Gandalf

[00:38:08] to learn about the world and it's a way for us

[00:38:10] to get this callback story of the Hobbits

[00:38:12] and I think it's a way to provide

[00:38:14] just variation so we're not just looking

[00:38:16] at dwarves and elves and numerorians all the time

[00:38:18] and I like it I enjoy it

[00:38:20] for me it's just a little bit that

[00:38:22] there's so much action happening everywhere else

[00:38:24] that apart from the Bombadil part

[00:38:26] stuff which I loved sometimes I kind of go

[00:38:28] oh I

[00:38:30] do like the the half foot

[00:38:32] and store stuff but I'm also

[00:38:34] like I really want to get back

[00:38:36] to the other rest of the action too because there's so much happening

[00:38:38] I don't know what's going on

[00:38:40] I did appreciate that

[00:38:42] by telling the stranger that it's

[00:38:44] his job to oppose

[00:38:46] the dark wizard joining with Sauron

[00:38:49] to stop that

[00:38:50] and to oppose both of them it ties

[00:38:52] this story into the rest

[00:38:54] of the story one of the things that

[00:38:56] one of the complaints I've heard about

[00:38:58] the show is like where is this going

[00:39:00] with the stranger and the half foot

[00:39:02] it doesn't have anything to do with anything else

[00:39:06] but maybe it does

[00:39:07] they have the tired in

[00:39:09] for sure

[00:39:12] and yeah

[00:39:13] when the leader said

[00:39:16] when Nori's describing her friend

[00:39:18] he's not like a man

[00:39:19] he's not an elf either

[00:39:21] but he's just really big, he's like a giant

[00:39:24] and Goond says

[00:39:25] so he's a great big grand elf

[00:39:27] I was like oh that's a little bit too on the nose

[00:39:29] I almost expected her to look at the camera and wink

[00:39:32] yeah I thought that was

[00:39:34] unnecessary

[00:39:35] alright

[00:39:37] you know we get it

[00:39:39] but then I remembered

[00:39:40] that

[00:39:42] the Lord of the Rings books and the

[00:39:45] Hobbit have a lot of

[00:39:47] silliness mixed in with the darkness

[00:39:49] and the drama and I was like

[00:39:51] that's right that's why I loved these

[00:39:53] books when I was a kid because there were accessible parts

[00:39:55] of it that led me into

[00:39:57] this richer

[00:39:59] darker world and allowed

[00:40:01] me to view it from an innocent

[00:40:03] perspective right because in those books

[00:40:06] you identify with the Hobbits

[00:40:07] and you look at this world

[00:40:09] as bigger and scarier than you

[00:40:11] so when I was reading these books

[00:40:13] the first time when I was I don't know 10

[00:40:17] everything was bigger and scarier than

[00:40:20] and then reading them again

[00:40:23] as I got older it was

[00:40:25] a different perspective but I really appreciate

[00:40:27] having that point of view

[00:40:29] character that is innocent

[00:40:31] and childlike

[00:40:32] yeah it's a way to connect with the

[00:40:34] greatest story and you're seeing it through the eyes

[00:40:36] which is great and yeah you're right there is

[00:40:39] always these little pieces of humor

[00:40:40] which works well

[00:40:42] and I hope people are watching this show as a family

[00:40:45] and that

[00:40:47] parents are sharing the Lord of the Rings

[00:40:49] with their kids and

[00:40:51] and I want kids to have

[00:40:52] some characters they

[00:40:54] can identify with and not just see

[00:40:57] all these warriors

[00:40:58] and elves

[00:41:00] you know what I mean like

[00:41:01] they need someone to identify with as well

[00:41:04] yeah it's a great perspective

[00:41:08] it's really

[00:41:08] good timing for me at the moment because

[00:41:10] my son is reading Lord of the Rings right now

[00:41:12] and as I was sitting there

[00:41:14] reading the Silmarillion

[00:41:16] and trying to get some background

[00:41:18] like flicking around between different websites

[00:41:20] and stuff trying to do my research

[00:41:23] I was just

[00:41:23] looking up Tom Bombadil and he was

[00:41:25] just at that point in the fellowship

[00:41:27] of the ring where he's meeting Tom Bombadil

[00:41:30] and it was great we had this

[00:41:31] really great conversation about it

[00:41:33] they haven't seen the Rings of Power yet but they definitely will

[00:41:35] so yeah it's really cool

[00:41:37] and yeah well we'll see

[00:41:39] like I said we'll see how dark it goes because I think they've got a higher

[00:41:42] violence rating as well in season two

[00:41:44] than they did in season one so

[00:41:45] we'll just see how dark we go

[00:41:47] later on

[00:41:49] and the leader

[00:41:50] she mentions

[00:41:53] the Galdrim, the Gordrim

[00:41:57] the Dark Wizard

[00:41:59] they know the Dark Wizard as well

[00:42:00] he's obviously not their friend so I was trying to kind of figure out where they sit

[00:42:03] in this kind of region and who they know

[00:42:05] and who they're allied with

[00:42:07] so these Galdrim

[00:42:08] are these masked men that seem to be

[00:42:11] in service of the Dark Wizard

[00:42:12] they're non-canon, they're not

[00:42:14] in the writing or anything

[00:42:15] but they're obviously a vehicle for sort of showing

[00:42:17] what this Dark Wizard's power

[00:42:20] is in the east

[00:42:23] even though Nori and

[00:42:26] the Gund have had

[00:42:28] this conversation

[00:42:29] and this sort of bonding experience over

[00:42:31] talking about their kind of

[00:42:33] shared history

[00:42:35] or the legend of Rory M.S. Burrows

[00:42:38] they're basically

[00:42:40] before that they're going to get cast out

[00:42:42] they're like that's it, no

[00:42:43] we're not going to have you stay with us

[00:42:45] so I think they are protective

[00:42:47] they're obviously living in some fear

[00:42:50] of the Galdrim

[00:42:51] and I was quite shocked when

[00:42:54] when the Galdrim hit her

[00:42:57] knocked her down, I was like oh my god

[00:42:59] that was quite extreme

[00:43:02] and so the Dark Wizard

[00:43:03] is basically saying yeah

[00:43:05] you look after these guys

[00:43:08] and I'll try and find the East Dark kind of thing

[00:43:10] and yeah it's

[00:43:11] I don't know what's going to happen there but

[00:43:13] we did get to see a little bit more again of the Dark Wizard

[00:43:15] I don't think we really particularly learned any more

[00:43:17] about him apart from that we know that Tom Bombadil

[00:43:20] has met him and so on

[00:43:23] where are you sitting with

[00:43:25] who you think he is at the moment? Have you changed your mind at all in this episode?

[00:43:30] Not remotely

[00:43:33] still believe that he is who we've talked about him being

[00:43:36] it seems so clear

[00:43:39] yeah I'm actually veering away from that

[00:43:42] let's go into it

[00:43:43] and spoil as in case

[00:43:44] there's people who don't want to know

[00:43:46] but yeah we'll maybe talk about that later

[00:43:50] I just want more

[00:43:51] because he's really cool and I love Kieran Hines

[00:43:53] so let's see where we get to

[00:43:57] Kieran Hines is a fascinating actor

[00:44:00] I've been

[00:44:01] paying attention to him for a while now

[00:44:03] and he keeps surprising me

[00:44:05] yeah

[00:44:08] yeah

[00:44:11] I've got a bunch of stuff

[00:44:14] about him

[00:44:15] I think maybe I will leave it just to the spoiler section

[00:44:17] because there might be some people who don't want to know

[00:44:20] and we might be wrong

[00:44:21] we might be right, I don't know

[00:44:22] that'd be great

[00:44:25] is there anything else there from the east

[00:44:27] that we haven't covered?

[00:44:29] No I think we're good on Rune

[00:44:32] Fantastic where do you want to go next?

[00:44:36] Let's

[00:44:36] visit with my most favorite

[00:44:39] creatures of Middle Earth

[00:44:42] the ants

[00:44:44] Yay ants

[00:44:45] we get to meet two ants

[00:44:47] in this episode

[00:44:50] Snaggle, wait where I wrote it down

[00:44:52] because I'm horrible with names

[00:44:54] Snaggle Root and Winter Bloom

[00:44:57] Snaggle Root is voiced

[00:44:59] by Jim Broadbent

[00:45:00] and Winter Bloom by Olivia Williams

[00:45:03] both really accomplished British actors

[00:45:06] and they gave their voices

[00:45:08] some kind of

[00:45:09] you know twist

[00:45:11] there's a filter on them that gives them

[00:45:13] a little bit more resonance

[00:45:15] and a little creek

[00:45:17] which I thought was kind of cool and entish

[00:45:19] we've never seen an ent wife

[00:45:21] on screen before and

[00:45:23] I know that I am not alone in being really excited

[00:45:26] about it

[00:45:26] I love the way that like just flower petals

[00:45:29] just like sort of

[00:45:31] follow her and proceed her

[00:45:33] when she like she's obviously upset

[00:45:36] she's in some distress

[00:45:37] and so she's just shedding petals

[00:45:39] she's like my cat, just shedding everywhere

[00:45:43] you know they're big and powerful

[00:45:47] they killed those people

[00:45:50] I mean Erundir finds that

[00:45:51] pretty gruesome

[00:45:53] scene where all these

[00:45:55] people have been skewered by branches

[00:45:58] and there's like an arm

[00:45:59] just holding a torch which is clearly like a trap

[00:46:02] to try to lure them into it

[00:46:04] but apparently they don't

[00:46:06] kill people that drop their weapons because

[00:46:08] Theo had dropped his weapon

[00:46:10] when he was running

[00:46:11] and so they just imprisoned him

[00:46:14] in like a tree prison

[00:46:15] which was pretty cool

[00:46:17] and they are angry

[00:46:20] the ants are angry

[00:46:21] the Orc army has been just

[00:46:24] destroying their forests

[00:46:25] that they have been tending for you know thousands of years

[00:46:29] and then the Wildmen

[00:46:31] have been you know cutting down trees

[00:46:33] and stuff and they just

[00:46:35] they don't want anybody in their forest

[00:46:37] they were ready to

[00:46:39] you know take out Erundir

[00:46:40] they don't care about elves

[00:46:42] and then he does whatever that magic

[00:46:45] was that he did where he like touches her

[00:46:47] and then he begs forgiveness

[00:46:49] in Elvish so apparently

[00:46:51] the ants speak Elvish as well as

[00:46:55] English that's convenient

[00:46:57] and they do forgive him

[00:46:59] and it seems to have

[00:47:01] something very much to do with his touch

[00:47:03] and not just his words

[00:47:07] he doesn't have magic

[00:47:08] but he is an elf so is there some way that elves

[00:47:11] like commune with nature

[00:47:13] yeah they're very connected to nature

[00:47:15] and especially the type of elf he is

[00:47:17] he's a silver elf so they are of the woods

[00:47:18] so he's got this innate

[00:47:21] connection with them

[00:47:23] and yeah I loved the way he just

[00:47:25] completely soothed her and he

[00:47:26] he was so humble when he mentioned that

[00:47:29] he had taken an axe

[00:47:31] to a tree before

[00:47:33] and I love that callback

[00:47:35] because remember in season one when he's

[00:47:36] being held captive by the orcs

[00:47:39] and they make him try and chop that tree down

[00:47:40] and so we've actually seen it and we've already seen

[00:47:43] for Erundir how much that affects him

[00:47:45] and hurts him to have to do that

[00:47:46] and so when he says to the ant wife

[00:47:49] that he has done that before

[00:47:51] it had even more impact

[00:47:53] than if we were just like yeah he's an elf he likes nature

[00:47:55] you know it was really important

[00:47:57] and impactful for him

[00:47:59] I thought it was just such a beautiful

[00:48:01] scene and the way they portrayed

[00:48:03] those ants was incredible

[00:48:04] and I loved

[00:48:07] we've seen in Lord of the Rings

[00:48:09] when Treebeard and all of his

[00:48:11] ant friends go

[00:48:12] and trash

[00:48:14] or think and

[00:48:16] flood it and destroy

[00:48:18] Saruman's kind of enterprise there

[00:48:20] so we've seen the anger

[00:48:22] it's my favourite scene in all of the movies

[00:48:24] it's the best yeah

[00:48:26] we've seen them in anger but that's sort of more like

[00:48:28] battle and I really loved that this was just quite

[00:48:30] individual and it was these two ants

[00:48:32] who were very very affected by everything

[00:48:35] the ants are just so amazing

[00:48:37] and we've been waiting for a long time to see them

[00:48:39] like this so it was just awesome

[00:48:41] to see and I love that

[00:48:42] she had blossom and that blossom was part

[00:48:45] of her name so Winter Bloom

[00:48:46] it's spring at the moment in New Zealand

[00:48:48] and we've got heaps of trees just all covered

[00:48:50] in blossom there's a beautiful white and pink

[00:48:52] blossoms everywhere and driving

[00:48:54] around and just having seen this episode

[00:48:56] I was like oh there's Winter Bloom

[00:48:57] she would love it here she would shepherd

[00:49:00] these trees she would

[00:49:02] they accept

[00:49:03] the the

[00:49:05] apology which is amazing

[00:49:08] to me very quickly

[00:49:10] I thought and I thought

[00:49:11] almost because of what we do know about ants

[00:49:14] that they do take time and they do things

[00:49:16] very slowly I thought that was quite interesting

[00:49:18] that they did that quite quickly without

[00:49:20] very much explanation

[00:49:21] I wonder whether there was more written and filmed

[00:49:24] that we they cut because of

[00:49:26] timing or something it was just quite sudden

[00:49:28] he apologizes

[00:49:29] the people are set free there was no

[00:49:32] kind of real explanation about it

[00:49:34] yeah and

[00:49:35] it's not very ent like but again maybe

[00:49:37] the ends that we know later have had

[00:49:40] cause to to do things slowly

[00:49:42] and to consider the ent

[00:49:43] population has changed quite a lot later

[00:49:45] because the ent wives have gone so

[00:49:47] maybe this is just a slightly different

[00:49:49] earlier version of the ens that we're seeing

[00:49:51] I mean Treebeard talks about how

[00:49:53] as time has gone on

[00:49:55] the ants have slowed down

[00:49:58] and some of them have practically

[00:49:59] become trees and have

[00:50:01] become rooted

[00:50:04] and and that

[00:50:05] that is part of what drove the ent wives

[00:50:07] away was that the the male

[00:50:09] ants were were just sort

[00:50:11] of feeding

[00:50:13] and yeah I've got a bit of background

[00:50:15] about this was like young ants

[00:50:17] yeah exactly yeah yeah

[00:50:19] so we we mentioned

[00:50:21] the ent last

[00:50:23] week and that little reading I did from

[00:50:25] the Silmarillion about their origins

[00:50:27] they were brought into existence

[00:50:29] by Yavanna and pretty much

[00:50:31] an answer to Owl'e

[00:50:33] creating the dwarves and

[00:50:35] she she asked Eru the

[00:50:37] creator to give life

[00:50:39] to the ent so that the

[00:50:40] ent were either sort of souls that were sent

[00:50:43] to inhabit trees or else that particularly

[00:50:45] they took the likeness

[00:50:47] of trees owing to their

[00:50:49] and born love of trees so that the

[00:50:51] spirits that inhabit trees

[00:50:52] the ent wives were created also along with

[00:50:55] the male ants by Yavanna

[00:50:57] and she's that Valar who's responsible

[00:50:59] for all growing things

[00:51:00] so the the ent themselves the husbands

[00:51:03] were dedicated to Oremai which is

[00:51:05] another powerful Valar he's known as

[00:51:07] the huntsman but the ent wives were

[00:51:09] dedicated to Yavanna so they each had

[00:51:11] sort of you know different

[00:51:13] I guess sort of leaders or

[00:51:15] people that they looked to the ent wives

[00:51:17] originally traveled with the ends

[00:51:19] but in the first age the ent wives settled

[00:51:21] down and created gardens because they like

[00:51:23] to plant things and they like to control

[00:51:25] smaller things like vegetables and grass

[00:51:27] and flowers and those more kind of domestic type

[00:51:29] plants whereas the male

[00:51:31] ended the larger trees of the forests

[00:51:34] and so the ends

[00:51:35] they were a bit different this sort of started

[00:51:37] their division really the ent's wanted to

[00:51:39] speak to the trees and let the trees go

[00:51:41] however they wanted but the ent wives

[00:51:43] wanted to be obeyed by the plants because

[00:51:45] they liked order so it's quite interesting

[00:51:47] difference there so the ent's

[00:51:50] like the wild forest and letting things

[00:51:51] go where they will and the ent wives

[00:51:54] wanted sort of order and control

[00:51:55] yeah so a little bit of a

[00:51:58] maybe a gender

[00:52:00] stereotype but hey we'll go with it

[00:52:01] it was written in the 1930s

[00:52:04] and so the rest of the

[00:52:06] so the ent wives

[00:52:07] the lady ent's they created these gardens

[00:52:09] and sort of stayed put and then the rest

[00:52:11] of the ent's kept wandering and then they would

[00:52:13] visit the wives occasionally in the gardens

[00:52:15] and they kind of wanted the ent wives

[00:52:17] to come back to them but they

[00:52:20] they refused the ent wives didn't want

[00:52:21] to wander so this was

[00:52:23] why they gradually lost contact with the ent wives

[00:52:25] and then when Treebid

[00:52:27] he mentions it but he actually went to go and

[00:52:29] search for his wife and he couldn't find her

[00:52:31] so they were just gone but the ent's

[00:52:33] thought that potentially the ent

[00:52:35] wives were not dead

[00:52:37] but just lost and that's why we hear it later saying

[00:52:39] we've lost the wives and they don't know where they are

[00:52:42] they believed that they would find

[00:52:43] each other one day but one theory

[00:52:45] is that the ent wives could

[00:52:47] have been wiped out by Sauron

[00:52:50] during the war of

[00:52:51] the last alliance so that's the war that we see

[00:52:53] at the very beginning of the Lord of the Rings with the elves

[00:52:55] and men on the slopes

[00:52:57] of Mount Doom and some of them could have fled east

[00:53:00] some of them could have become slaves of Sauron

[00:53:01] so we don't really know but what we're seeing

[00:53:03] here is we're seeing these the ent's

[00:53:06] and the ent wives before that split

[00:53:07] so they're still going around doing their thing together

[00:53:10] and I just thought it was beautifully done

[00:53:11] I love Jim Broadbent everything he does

[00:53:13] his voice is so distinctive

[00:53:15] and all of his characters that I adore

[00:53:17] it was really great to hear him here as

[00:53:19] Snaggle Root and that whole

[00:53:21] sequence with Arondere

[00:53:23] it was just so beautiful

[00:53:25] I absolutely loved it again I could watch that

[00:53:27] so many times it was just beautifully

[00:53:30] beautifully done

[00:54:24] It was after the light storms

[00:54:26] when the dawn is silent

[00:54:28] and the birds awaken

[00:54:33] have tended this forest

[00:54:35] since before the mountains

[00:54:38] rose up and divided

[00:54:43] when the only sound here

[00:54:45] was the light

[00:54:47] upon the moss

[00:54:53] seop

[00:54:55] and the breathing

[00:55:05] know

[00:55:06] peace