22: "Where is He?" (S2E6)

[00:00:06] AHHH!

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_08]: You yield to him.

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_08]: I resist it.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: For a while, it's no longer later he sees you.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Not just who you are, but who you wish to be.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: His eye, bore the whole and the rest of him slith us in.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_00]: For a while he even makes you believe that his power

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be calm yours.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It is just a little power that makes every desire

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: for film and seemin' ever to go.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: An ocean of colour, against which everything else feels forever there after.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Hado, grey.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Greating seaworms of the abyss, bat calling dwarfs,

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_07]: lizard-brathed stores and canine in Europe's welcome to our podcast.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm N1, and I'm Rima.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is the Cast of the Rings episode 22.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_05]: This episode we're going to cover season 2 episode 6 of The Rings of Power.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Where is he?

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so amazing to have you here, Rima.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome back.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_05]: How are you?

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm doing very well.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm so excited to be here.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for asking me.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Fantastic.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And what do you think so far of the season?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really enjoying the season so far.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I really enjoyed season 1 and coming into season 2.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't realize that they dropped all three episodes at once

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_05]: that they were one of the shows that did that, so I thought,

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_05]: oh wow, they're just giving us so much goodness at once.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So I dived right in, and I've really been enjoying the ride.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I love this world so much.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm fresh off a rewatch of the trilogy.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So, a decent version so I was really excited.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really cool.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm really looking forward to going back again to the trilogy after season 2

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_07]: because there's so many juicy little bits that this series is giving us

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_07]: a background for and then you see some moments in there and you're like,

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_07]: it's so cool.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really amazing.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_07]: It's giving so much more depth to a lot of the character that we see maybe

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_07]: even just mentioned or we see for a couple of seconds on screen and the trilogy.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's really cool.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And this season 2, I think, you know, at the pace of so much better,

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_07]: they've really settled into their writing and it's overall

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I think just so much more satisfying.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Then season 1 was so, it's really great.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm having a great time.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And I agree, I think they're really getting, I feel like they're finding their way,

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, with the pacing and the story, the writing.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I'm definitely entertained.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Fantastic.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that takes a while.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_07]: There's quite a few shows that do that.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, as many great shows where if you do go back to season 1, you go,

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_07]: oh yeah, there was still just kind of finding their footing.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And when you're talking about a world that is as rich and detail as this,

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: the fact that they were able to manage to get through season 1 with all of that

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_07]: world building and set up as pretty amazing and then getting to the where

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_07]: the real action starts in season 2.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's fantastic.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Great.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_07]: So shall we get into it?

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_07]: What did you want to start with today?

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Since you're the guest.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think I'm going to start off today just talking a little bit about the

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_05]: new manure storyline.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I really love where they're going.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always enjoyed new manure.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm fascinated with this little piece of middle earth.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that they've really done a great job with,

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_05]: like the location.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_05]: It's still just beautiful to look at again.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I talked a lot about it whenever I guessed it during season 1.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, just an amazing job that they've done with the locations and

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_05]: bringing to life, you know, this world in new manure is certainly no exception.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_05]: She's absolutely beautiful.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think they're really doing a great job right now with the story line there

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and what's currently happening.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I love what they're doing with Ellen Dill.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that right now, we're seeing him, especially in this episode, he is the really

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: giving us that powerful hero that we're using in middle earth.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I keep looking at him and seeing like flashes of like Erdogan and that, you

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_05]: know, that honor and his refusal to back down knowing that he's going to be

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_05]: executed, you know, because they're like, you know, this is, this is your choice.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And he just says no and he holds true to what he believes and feels like that that's,

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, in his heart what he needs to do.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And for his queen.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_05]: So I love what they're doing with him.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think his Lloyd Owens performance is so interesting to watch.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really, I really think that he's, he's giving that performance that makes it so easy

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_05]: for fans to like get behind him and want to like follow him.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And then along with Ellen Dill, you know, we have Mirriol and I've, I've loved seeing

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_05]: love seeing her evolution where we saw her in season one.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_05]: She was kind of this warrior queen which was so great.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And now she's kind of become this like spiritual leader, political rival.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_05]: She's, I feel a lot more interesting in season two so far.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And in this episode, especially she's just so remarkable.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And I love that how much she has risen to become this rival against Fares on all that

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_05]: dude he's just rotten.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Just rotten.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I just don't like him at all.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know, with with is how awful is what he is he has this greed and ambition.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And she perfectly counteracts that with that serenity that she has.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I've just, I've loved seeing her evolve and I think between Ellen Dill and his character

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and how people will easily be able to get behind him.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she's making it really easy for people to get behind her.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So I feel like between them too.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to see what happens next.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And also, I'm totally hoping like there's something between them too.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm totally shipping them.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't like shipping characters but I'm behind that.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_07]: They are amazing together and they like their chemistry is just incredible from the beginning

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I've loved any scene with the two of them and I love how they start it out.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_07]: We actually see them kind of meet really for the first time.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she'd maybe sort of been aware of him or her to them but really early on in season one

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's really incredible to see how that has grown over the two seasons.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_07]: To where you see them come together to sort of trust each other and to really know that they're on the same side

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_07]: and they can lean on each other right throughout to now we are.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they've crossed that line over into, you know, there's that one line that she said what about my heart

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_07]: and that's kind of where it crossed over I think from that kind of,

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I've caughtly loved to the kind of maybe a bit more in antigluff but I loved absolutely loved that they didn't kiss

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_07]: and I was certainly going kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, kiss, so I was very sick together.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But I also love that they didn't and that four-head touching was just so much more intimate.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I felt than if they had kissed and I just thought it was beautiful, this is so incredible.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And I agree with what you say about in Lindy or his just the performance is incredible.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, the cast in because I think they found someone who has not just a similar kind of look but also just that same gravitas that that we go brought to our recording.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_07]: That Lloyd oven is now bringing to this character that we can really believe that his arrogance and sister.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_07]: So you've got this kind of the acting, the physicality, but then also just these actions that he's doing that is setting us up to believe that one day he is going to become the hiking of Gondor and Arnaut.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you can just see it in him. He's so noble and absolutely loved that sequence in the course when he's standing there and it first she says that he renounces his crimes.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can see that kind of look of relief on the audience face.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_07]: But then when they ask him to swear to, far as on, he just says I do not.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And then when he stood up and then he just walks towards and pointed to far as on, oh, that was so amazing.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So powerful.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_05]: 100% agree with everything you just said.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and then they have to have this trial by a person that holds seen in the jail where a Yardian comes to him and it was quite a touching scene between the two of them because they've been estranged for this time.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And she wants him to swear to the authority.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And then that moment where she says, you know, put away a pride and he just looks at her and says if you think that pride is all it is, then we've got nothing more to say to each other.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was like, oh, now they're truly lost to each other. It was so sad.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's still seemed to want to, I don't know. She, I'm not sure where she's going. You know, I do feel like she's potentially still redeemable because she did go and get Mariao, but again,

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think she got Mariao for her father. I think she got Mariao just so that he would listen and bow to Farazon, and then she would not have to see him die. That was, I do think it was still a little bit selfish from her parts, not really about the cause or about him.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Both just so beautifully actors really loved it. And then Mariao takes a lindios place, you know, in the trial and that sequence with the C-worm that was so beautiful underwater wasn't it?

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It was very beautiful, so powerful, very powerful moment.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just love how whatever she is on screen, whatever she is doing, she is regal. She is just so noble and regal and poised.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And she can be, you know, in the fires of Mount Doom, losing her sight, you know, trying to help other people or she can be an energial cell or she can be there really to sacrifice her life for the cause and for a lindial to save him.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And she is just standing the absolute stradest you could ever stand and just her posture and her demeanor everything is just so incredible.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_07]: We've got a bit more about that in the news because I really wanted to explore into how they filmed that scene and what it meant to the actors, so we'll talk a bit more about that later but I just love that.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And the chief survives and I was kind of like, hang on wait, is she queen again now because everyone was going queen of the C queen Mariao and I don't know because that crowd is so fickle right first they're like okay only phares on and this things people have to die in the second that.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I was confused too. I'm like wait you just you just this eagle came down and everyone's like look they've chosen phares on and so they start chaining his name and I'm like okay so now he's ruling they can just do that and and now yeah now the same back to to Maryle and I'm like wow you you all kind of change your mind a lot.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm sure and but the other thing is to that kind of shows to me that.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all they're probably quite you know persuadable but also that.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_07]: But actually the old faith is stronger amongst the majority of people in phares on beliefs because this was his whole thing was let's just test out what that they basically win okay well let's.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_07]: This credit the faithful by sending Mariao or Lendil to their death and it would just show that the Vala don't care about them and that was basically going to be his way of saying.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_07]: The Vala aren't here we don't need to worship anymore that's all good but it back fires because first of all both in Lendil and Mariao looks noble that they're ready to die for their cause and then you know the see where and spat her out so it's basically showing everyone that the Vala are around and are there to protect them and do think they're worthy.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And so for the crowd to suddenly just go yeah yeah sort of makes me think well maybe they are paying more attention to what the Vala are wanting then phares on actually thinks.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah definitely backfire I don't know whether we have to wait until next week but.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I don't know whether that means that he's now became or she's not and I've got a bit to say about that in the school as section as well.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: But overall I'm excited here.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah that's a really good point I'm glad that you brought that up because then maybe it does show that you know because a lot a lot of the faithful feel like they're still kind of in secret a little right like maybe not everyone is proclaiming to be you know faithful.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And this is going to hopefully make a turn.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah exactly but yeah having read the books it's not going to go well but.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's not just suddenly one or the other it's like you can actually see that unreasted I think this is what happens in real life you know it's not just one thing happens and then everyone turns it's always going to be different factions and different royalties that are being tested all the way through so yeah it'll be great to see what they do with that.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And then at the end of that sequence we get a shot of far as I'm looking into the Palantir which I thought was really cool because I thought you know he's he's talking all along and front of people about how this is just alph metric and no one wants this in magical seeing stones kind of thing.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And then I was like well just wait he's going to look in there.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_07]: They can't help himself and then I love that visual that they use where they put their hand on it and then.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_07]: You don't just get that crackling effect within the stone but it kind of crackles reality like it kind of spreads out which I think is really cool.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he sees how brand and we wondered last week you know what is he going to actually see in the Palantir and again I think that opinion I spoke about this a little bit where.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_07]: I think at this stage what people are seeing in the Palantir is their own future so we had Maria was seeing the wave we had a lendial seeing himself right away from the city and we've got far as on now seeing how brand so.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he's realizing that how brand is going to be part of a future and it's going to turn dark again so I thought that was really really cool.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah that very interesting scene I can't wait to see how it plays out.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's awesome.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_07]: All right anything else on on Nubinor for you?

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_07]: No not the moment.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Awesome we might pop back there a little bit in the ledger's mirror.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I've quite keen to just pop on over to Roon and have a chat about what's happening there.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_07]: We didn't get a huge amount in terms of screen time over there with Tom Bobbadell, the stranger and Norion Poppy but we did get a little bit and it was probably significant so we have we chat about that.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all Tom Bobbadell, the stranger quite a short scene with the two of them but quite important I think.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_07]: And I am fully neck and fumes and my suspicion from last week that Gandalf's getting that hat.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes I and I've wondered if that was where y'all were kind of leaning is the stranger Gandalf because if there were any doubts before I feel like this episode all bit affirmed it for me anyway.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't sure it's like I don't know there are so many characters and I guess you can be that but it feels like that's where they're going but this episode I think affirmed it for me for sure.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I've seen so much talk out there in the internet and there's still a lot of people who are delighted and don't think it is and a lot of people who don't want it to be because they're so hung up on the timelines and that Gandalf isn't supposed to arrive yet and all that sort of stuff we've talked about in a lot of the book.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_07]: That's not going to matter they're crunching the timeline that's all good but I think that a lot of people are still trying to deny that it's hermen.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I see a lot of talk around of people going yeah but they're just dropping all these clues to try and make you think it's hermen then they're going to say it's not and like there has been.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah like 14 episodes so far where they have dangled this and there's not just this week there has been clues every single week in the dialogue and the way he's speaking everything that points towards it being Gandalf and I honestly just think it would be so mean if it wasn't at this point it's just not going to happen.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And the hat I was like last week I was like a bonbon it was got a wizardy type hat we haven't seen it yet but I'm pretty sure Gandalf's going to get it and then as soon as we saw the silhouette of the hat against the sky with that really distinctive little curve at the end of it.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_07]: And he takes some strange route to still calling him the stranger to work in front of you.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_07]: He takes the stranger out to the wild and he says to him you'll find your true stuff only when the vision of your heart is single to the service of the secret fire and then he comes out with the absolute Gandalf like line to the strangers this is coming from Tom Bonbadil and he says many that die deserve life.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Some that lived deserved death who are you to give it to them and that is a direct quote from Gandalf saying to Frodo when Frodo says in wish to kill God or when he had the chance.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_07]: It's flipped around because the wording is slightly different Gandalf says to Frodo many that lived deserve death and some that died deserve life can you give it to them do not be too eager to deal at death and judgment whatever the very wise cannot see all ends.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So I love that they've done that all the way through they've given him lines that end up either being something that Gandalf says or something that is really true to the character so that was really cool and then they see this.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_07]: This whole kind of valley or canyon filled with these trusty now sticks and they are looking like yeah really exactly like the nowd kind of staff that Gandalf gets that we see visually and you know the Lord of the Rings movies.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So I guess the question is is he going to be going down there to to get the staff or is he going to go back to Nori because that's the choice that he's been given isn't it by Tom Bonbadil you have to choose your destiny or your friend.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he's going to go try and save Nori and he's going to get his staff from that tree where the truth is live.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, good.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I think I too.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just yeah this is a talking story that you don't abandon your friends.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't see the stranger abandoning Nori.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's going to be one in the same.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I agree.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's a twist.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's the twist and you know there's it's a theme throughout talking is as yes you can have these grand.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Notions about saving the world but at the begins at home you have to look after your people first and I think that's what's going to happen as well.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_07]: We've just seen that tree mentioned and looked at a few too many times with the kind of year of I think you're right I think it's what we're going to go with and just from what we know already just of the stranger but even more so if we do believe that his Gandalf.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what that's what he would choose so I think that's probably going to see as well.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I liked the mention of the secret fires but we've heard that a few times before and the Lord of the Rings so I've got a bit of background to that.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_07]: The secret fires also known as the flame imperishable or the imperishable flame and it was this that gave Eru the creator god has mysterious power of creation.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_07]: So you can only make something of substance and life from nothing using the secret fire. You can't just make up anything at any time and only Eru could command the secret fire, neither being could claim it.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why when Lord God has made evil things he had to twist and distort good things that already exist in so for example that the elves into orcs and so on.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And symbolically I guess the secret fire is an alternative name for the Holy Spirit and Tolkien's kind of mythos just like Eru is kind of an e-car of God.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And there was this discussion that Tolkien had with Clyde Kilbe who and Clyde basically quoted this and said,

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Revisit Tolkien talks to me at some length about the use of the word holy in the summer.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Very specifically, you told me that the secret fire sent to burn at the heart of the world in the beginning was the Holy Spirit.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's quite cool that it's because Tolkien actually often did not want to make this allegorical and did not want to, I guess acknowledge their very obvious echoes between religion and between his story.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But this is a specific time where he's yet pretty much that's what it is.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And we've heard it before in Lord of the Rings 2 so when Gandalf is on the bridge there and he's about to take down the bell rug, he says I'm a secret.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm a servant of the secret fire, weilder of the flame of our Noah so our Noah is the word for some.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah it's quite cool to see that Eko dig in here.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_07]: We're bombado is basically saying this is what it is you need to be able to be in service of the secret fire.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And again, that's another deep law of the secret fire.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_07]: And right here Thomas said you need to be single to the service of the secret fire.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah all fingers point there but I am curious why I mean if that's where they're going with this, you know the stranger is Gandalf.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Why did they like drag it out for so long I guess because I feel like they have been trying to drop those clues so I'm not sure why they wanted to you know make us wait so long and we still haven't officially gotten that reveal or anything but you know it's like, why make us wait just say I know.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Because for me personally I felt like a hell brain took a long time because I clocked hell brain from I've been so pretty much when he arrived and he's on that rock.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: He's so wrong man.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And so for me we're doing another 60 episodes was quite long for that especially with the further clues that came along but this is just end your face as so obvious and I don't know I always I always wonder did they do research before making the show.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And in terms of what people's knowledge base would be out of all of their viewers or have they done that now so they go okay we've got 40 million viewers we know from from research or anecdotal evidence or whatever.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_07]: That this number of percentage of them have not seen anything this is completely coming in fresh just viewing the show then there's the stage of people who are.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_07]: probably seen the movies but haven't read anything and then you've got the next lot of people who see the movies probably read.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Lord of the Rings in the Hobbit.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_07]: That nothing more and then you've got the people who are the Philon Tolkien nerds have read the summer and I know all the background stuff and I honestly think that there's a huge number of people just in those first two categories either never having seen anything or just having seen the movies.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that they have to cater to the huge fans by dropping in all these little cool nuggets but I think that also we are that they have to make it accessible for people who really only know.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, this is thankful to Lord of the Rings and it's got a wizard in it cool game out like most people know that.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_07]: So good point.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just think that's why they're doing it but even for those people this is still a long time.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It's so take you a little bit farther that's cool and yeah it's interesting because I have heard.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_07]: You know people who get the episodes a few of time in it.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Journalists who've seen the whole season have said oh yeah, it does get revealed by the end of this and it's I've heard people say it's kind of a cheesy way in which they they reveal it.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But I actually don't know if it's still going to happen this season and I wonder whether the thing that they were meaning that was cheesy was back when.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_07]: The leader of the stores said he's just a great big grand elf and I wonder whether that's what they meant but it wasn't actually a true reveal.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know but they can't they can't drag it up.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I hope if that's where they're going then hopefully by the last episode of the season I hope we get that.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah for sure.

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And then we move over to the other part of room and we're in the stores village and we've got a couple of scenes there so we have Nory talking to gunned the gunned.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And there was a little bit of new information there for me because I was under the impression that the half-foot's moved seasonally so they were here for summer didn't move here for winter type thing.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_07]: But she sees they move every month so I thought that was kind of clarifying things a little bit.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't recall hearing that or that being referenced in season one and if it was I missed it which is possible but I thought wow that's that's a lot of moving they're really good at that they've really got there like.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I've got a pattern down yeah they know exactly what they're doing and when but that's a lot.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's and I was like I felt like the migration that we saw was potentially the biggest season or one so they go from this area right all the way to the Grove.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Surely that I moved that far in a month because it seemed like it was many days of traveling to get there.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But the whole point of her talking about this with with the gun was to actually talk about how they move on and they don't settle and that gave gunned the opportunity to describe what it's like to live in a settled place.

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And they linked such a somewhere with your own history and I absolutely loved that and the the kind of method that she used or the tool that she used to describe that was the tree and we talked about that tree potentially being important but the way that she said.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_07]: That she tended it since she was a small child and then she married her sweetheart under the tree and then when he passed she buried him under the tree so it's linking this really really important sense of place.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And I loved how Nori was kind of intrigued by that she hadn't thought about that there could be benefits to that because she only knows her own way of life.

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I loved that and I loved that this description that gun was saying is very like the settled nature of the Shire that we see later and we know that eventually all these hobbits are going across the mountains and they're going to hear on over and you know settle the Shire.

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_07]: We might get to see that in this series I hope so I think that will be a really cool way to say.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So I think it's the best and the best of both worlds because you got settled but you've also got the green fields and the streams and everything so the two things that both of these cultures want.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Will be in one place which is really cool and what I loved was the music in the background has such echoes of the Shire music in it without being exact same notes they had sort of three or four similar notes and sequence that sounded really really like the shire music from the trilogy.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought that was amazingly well done by B.M. A.C.A. that he brought in little echoes that people familiar with the music were known it's real heart string music you know because that's the music that they play at the end when everyone kind of you know has their resolution at the end of the trilogy and whenever Frodo and Sam are talking about the Shire they bring that theme back and as well.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought it was beautifully done.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_05]: It was, it was, I remember watching and I'm like I think I know that music I think I know where that's from and it was I think a lovely little Easter egg and a little pop back.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the good talks to Nuri about these houses that they live in and they're called Smales so it's M.I.A.L. some people pronounce it smile but the correct pronunciation I believe is Smale and that's the word for their little Hobbit holes and the word is an invention of Tolkien is based on the English old English word, Smile or Smigle.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, in Y.G.E.L. Smigle and Smales a translation of the Hobbitish word for Burrow and Tolkien explained that and has guide to the names of all of the rings and it's actually the origin of the name Smigle the character that we know of Gollum as well which is kind of a cool back.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, so the Smales are word particular to Hobbits meaning Burrow or Leave Unchanged. It's a form of the old English word, Smigle, Burrow might have had if it had survived the same element appears in Gollum's real name, Smigle.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Smales were the Hobbit holes tunneled into Earth, Mounds and Hales for generations the Hobbits dug into the Earth to live by the later third age the poorest Hobbits still went living in Burrows of the most primitive kind but for the most well to do Hobbits, Smales were luxury versions of these primitive diggings.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_07]: The tunnels had rounded walls and branched off to other rooms and these included the most famous one that we know which is Bill Vos House bag end

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_07]: and then the Smales along the backshot row of Hobbit and the great Smales of Takabura and Brandi Hall. So they end up being this really elaborate cozy beautiful and wonderfully decorated places, but they started out as these kind of holes in the ground you know.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_07]: So that was really cool and nice cool back.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I really hope we get to see that sometime during this series that would be just amazing seeing all of the divisions.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I know there isn't there a third division as well of Hobbit that we haven't yet seen and maybe we're at the third.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, they might come, they might come into it too.

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I do believe that we'll see that happening this evening of the show. I think that they're telegraphing that really early on again, it's not exactly the same as the timeline in the book but who cares. We just want to see Hobbit.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You know what?

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Look, I just, I'm happy to just be here and be entertained so I'm okay with that not that my opinion has you know any stay at all but I think that would be just so cool to get all of them together and then start seeing the seeds of the shyre.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and it goes back to that thought that you know the vast majority of people here don't know exactly which year in the third age, Gandalf's supposed to arrive.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_07]: They don't know exactly which year the Hobbits crossed the best few mountains and went and settled it's just way know what they look like and we want to see it.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's really cool.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_07]: And then we have that seed with Poppy and nobody, what did you think about that?

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was so darn cute but at first I first I was kind of taking out a little bit because I'm like is she holding a snake like.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So I had to kind of rewind it for a bit because all I could think was I was like what is she, what is she holding? What are they doing?

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So that and I was like okay okay now go back and let's appreciate this moment.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_05]: But I thought it was adorable.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I had a feeling there was some feelings between those two.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_05]: There were some you know looks in previous episodes and I thought someone's catching feelings and it's adorable so I thought it was really sweet but I you know I wonder.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if maybe Poppy will stay you know there.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it seems like they're really made a connection and potentially that could be something where the two of them Poppy and Nori get separated or something else happens I don't know.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I thought it was really cute as well and you know often on TV shows you this there are few very few scenes apart from really intense ones with people I literally just sitting talking to each other like we did we did get that with with Nori and guned but the content of what they were saying was really important.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_07]: So they're not doing anything else physically but often in TV shows we do see people undertaking a task or doing something physical even if it's just walking around while they're talking.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_07]: But the two of them they're deciding to milk this the venom of the snake super casual not even talking about it or looking like it was dangerous anyway.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah yeah I was like you're you're way too kind of with that Poppy.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I you know you're stronger than I am but it looks like they were I don't know if using the venom or something for was it for Wopkins maybe yeah look like yeah maybe darts or something.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah I'm quite tell what what he was using and then popping that in that little there but I was like okay so looks like maybe they're going to use them maybe for defense.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah in some way but I'm like just having this nice pleasant little moment while she's just.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Snake I just had to get a little bit.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah and then I love I love when the shows don't mess around you know like so they basically saw each other they had a bit of a thing when they first saw each other.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And then they said in their chat again he goes to ask her out and she's like dovey street bed grabs his hand and then they kiss like it's just really cool where they get to the point and the latest connection is so it was super cute I really loved it and then of course the.

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely hilarious moment where she's like did you have Lizard Fiddler.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_07]: She's got Lizard brain.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_07]: So cute.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It was really cute.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I'm here for it all just yeah.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah I think they're going I think that looks like sort of quills or something like quills or barbs that they were putting this venom on and then they're storing them and I'm guessing maybe blowdarts later on they're going to be in the battle of some kind and that's going to come into play because yeah you don't just throw in a random snake venom scene without a pay off.

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah absolutely I'm going to see I want to see that in action.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Alright.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay Cole so what we do you want to go to next couple more couple more locations I think and my left at that's point.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah we're getting to all of them this episode they didn't really leave anything out even if it was just small pieces or got some you know long scenes in dialogue they they really touched on everything this episode.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But you know speaking of you know good dialogue that you were just you know talking about I would love to kind of go to the scene of Gallauderial and a door.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I love seeing these two together.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's very interesting.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: These two enemies, foes but also share a common enemy you know the enemy of my enemy is my friend is what it's kind of feeling like here.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Between the two of them I love the setting you know as a door he's got this you know hold dinner prepared you know with Gallauderial.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_05]: You know in the seat and knowing she's prisoner he doesn't have a chain at the moment, but you know she can't really go anywhere.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I love how a door it's interesting because I'm like am I suppose am I am I sympathizing for orcs you know it's.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_05]: It's such a weird feeling you know he hates so much and I believe good reason I've not I know some of the history I've read tried to read up on a little bit of the history but not too much so I get it.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_05]: But more than that he has this love for the orcs his children and I think that that gives us the ability to sympathize and see his side of things really easy.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And then with Gallauderial.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Herk Roth from season one to this season I think has been really fantastic because I think that you know she she has evolved.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I feel she used to be very headstrong she was kind of brash in season one and she's she has flaws which I love you know she's not you know she's not perfect she does have flaws she's I think still a young elf.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that she has gotten to a point now where she's learned from her mistakes with sour on when it ended in season one and she's gotten a lot more self aware that she.

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_05]: She's now able to kind of have this sympathy with a daughter that she wouldn't have had before maybe in season one and I love seeing that that they are kind seeing this benefit that they can have with each other.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And then or you know if they help each other.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But it was so hard to then see like she she knows like what sour on is trying to do but in trying to tell a daughter that and then he continues on with his plan to go to you know a rigion.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And and march on.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_05]: That was I was like oh no please listen to her she knows you know I feel like she.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I because they still feel like maybe sour on is still clouding at our little like even though he's I think got a longer history with him that he's still not clear or maybe he doesn't want to maybe he's you know so stuck on his mission and this payback.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not not clear but you know I loved the scenes between them I thought they were really beautiful I thought the dialogue was great.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it's beautiful isn't it and I'm interestingly.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know the internet is a weird place but I've seen a lot of people shipping the two of them as well.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I like it.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh no that's it.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_07]: But I loved out was that typical kind of feast with your captive scene which there's a bit of a trope that we see and a lot of movies and TV shows as well where the the captive is sitting there and the one that this actually reminded me off was.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_07]: It goes actually parts of the Caribbean the scene where we're the captive by boosters sitting there and he's having dinner.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_07]: With Elizabeth on his ship and that always have this incredibly elaborate feast set out front of them and they don't really eat it they just talk business but it was really quite cool.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: That we're seeing this and obviously of course at arc and eight unlike both of us so at least he's there enjoying the feast which was cool.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah I think I think you're right and I think that he's got two goals really to very strong goals so the one goal is revenge upon Sarah and he wants Sarah and destroyed and the second goal is getting his orcs their home so he wants his heric to have more to be lived in to not be attacked or abused by anybody.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I was like that was the question that he asked God I did I was is God God I was going to let us have our home and she could not have that and she almost didn't even pay attention to it kind of like hang on this isn't even what we're talking about we're talking about destroying Sarah but she really didn't listen to his goals.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So she was proposing this idea that the two of them unite to defeat Sarah on without thinking about what might happen later for his people and that was the tipping point I feel like for him because it really was this test he really manipulated her.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: He found out what they were doing with army was he found out that she didn't have her ring. She confirmed for him that how brand was Sarah on which I think he's a sped dead but needed the confirmation for sure.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So how got a lot out of that conversation and left her with nothing nothing but the realization that really it's all going to go sideways now for her and for the alps because you've got this massive walk army coming to attack the city

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_07]: that's got very little defence to it and then realizing that it was Sarah's plan along he doesn't have an army so he needs these walks to come has got Sarah's goal is to destroy a region to destroy the power structure that the the alps have got.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean he's cutting it fine with the with the people on still trying to make the rings like you'd be at a height another those little five arms actually had the forge before his rings get made.

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_05]: No kidding no kidding might want to put a pause on that for a little bit.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_05]: No you're right you're right. It feels like both of them are kind of being a little short sighted in their own way got you know, a galletryl with you know not being able to answer that question of will what happens to us if we defeat so are on or we are we going to be left in peace or we're going to be able to be just be left alone.

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he also can't see ahead and ahead enough to know that this is you know that he's just basically doing exactly what so are on once him to do so they're both, you know still still not able to see the the bigger pictures and you know what what the outcome could potentially be if they move forward with that.

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And the dialogue was incredible and love how she still calls him or like she has all the way through and he keeps saying, eric and then by the end she did call him eric so she was kind of capitulating to that a little bit like you okay,

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and that's what that means to be influenced by staron and I love I love his mind he says she sees you yielded I resisted him and then Adazzi's to galletryl for a wild haps but soon all later he sees you not just who you are but who you wish to be his I was a whole and the rest of him slithers in everything else feels for a while.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_07]: He even makes you believe that his power has become yours.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_07]: It was a stable power that makes every desire for full-ancing inevitable.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Ocean of color against which everything else feels ever thereafter and then she completes the sentence a dull grey so they completely understand each other and what that means I thought that was incredibly well written and shows you that they both are really in tune with what happens when staron has this whole over you.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_07]: So I love that kind of meeting of minds there but then it just splinted right off into both wanting really different things I thought it was powerfully done it was really beautiful.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_05]: It was really beautiful.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah very well done and then he brings out a more golf scram so on scram.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_05]: You're just like in just pissing on the table like no big deal.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And did you notice that Galadriel couldn't even look at it she was sort of like showing away almost like she couldn't even clap eyes on it because it was so powerful to her and so terrifying to her.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know the idea that she would have seen this on more guffs head and it's been changed slightly but I like the way that they said that it had been changed because there's no evidence in the book that more guffs scram went to saron.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But I like that they've taken the idea that it was sort of melted down and he reforged it for himself into his own crown.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_07]: It obviously looks enough like more guffs that that Galadriel was triggered by it.

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But the crown itself because you know more guffs started out as melcores so he was one of the velour and he was there from the beginning who's the most powerful velour when Etero first made the music of the creation.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_07]: But how he started was he disrupted the music of creation by weaving his own kind of chaotic discord into it and he kind of became the big bad guy, you know from beginning of all these stories.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_07]: We've talked about it before he ended up destroying the two lamps that let the world and then it destroyed the two trees that followed them.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_07]: And the quote from the Silmarillion goes, he forged for himself a great crown of iron and called himself King of the world.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He set the Silmarils in his crown.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_07]: His hands were burned black by the touch of those hellowed jewels and black they remained ever after nor was he ever free from the pain of the burning in the anger of the pain.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_07]: That crown he never took from his head though its weight became a deadly weariness.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just love that description that it was the kind of weight of his evil that sat on him and affected him forever and that someone that evil could not touch the Silmarils.

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_07]: These symbols of light without being burned.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And I, yeah last week I talked about how beer and a new the ingot one of the Silmarils back from the crown and all that stuff.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah nothing in the writings about sour and reforging it but I do think it fits the story really nicely because you took over as a sort of 60 sort of more golf he was his lieutenant.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And the idea that he literally then took the crown from him in terms of being the big bad I thought was actually really cool and Galegra's reaction to it was quite amazing I really thought.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah I agree very powerful.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this awesome and then she yeah he basically she says you can't take you can't take Euregion on with just one Legion and he kind of goes well I don't just have one Legion she could have me.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_07]: She's a very expensive person like her girl and it reminded me a lot of the scene where.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So Roman and we're emitting the top of the tower and when tongue isn't really aware of the kind of might I guess of so I'm on the year and then look out and they see that massive.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Plain just completely covered with these big legions of orcs and he's there's that tear that rolls down his face because it's just struck by the power of the numbers there and it kind of reminded me of that the Galegra was saying oh no we are really in trouble now and she's understanding what that impact is going to have on.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Or Ricky on I thought it was really powerful.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah agreed a very good callback to that scene in the trilogy.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Love that.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really cool how you just start recently seeing that because you got to appreciate you one.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I do and then I don't you know it's because then I started on the Hobbit too.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I tried because I'd never seen that before so I'm starting that journey as well but then jumping into rings of power you know trying to be up to date on that but.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_05]: There's so much to remember and there's a lot.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so much to remember bed you know just amazing yeah.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So cool.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I need to watch it again after all this is over.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I got to do for sure.

[00:48:21] Yep.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_07]: All right so I guess I guess we've got to talk about the main action what's happening what's happening with the regs and what's happening in the forge.

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes let's do it.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh my goodness.

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I just absolutely love the ongoing manipulation that Anata is doing here with all of them not just Calibrium we're in a his potent medania into it now as well and.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_07]: I love how he says Anata says to Medania pray that he finishes this work before it finishes him and she sort of trusts him to keep others away so again that classic narcissistic behavior that we've talked about before.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Where you're first of all isolate your victim but then you also pull in other people to be your kind of.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Minions like this and the kind of the allies against your victim so he's kind of poisoned her mind to think that Calibrium Boor is the one that's dark and there's having all these issues.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And even asks her to basically keep all of the other smiths away from Calibrium Boor and she falls for it.

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you get that message so they notice that the that nobody had been coming in and out of the city.

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And so they sent some people to go and see what was happening only one of them came back with this message cut into his chest.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And at first I thought, why can't a smith read rooms it seems a bit weird that she would not be able to read that the message but I guess that it was in the black speech so.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I want.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah yeah.

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's probably why she wouldn't know that it you know again he's um as as an attire saron doesn't lie and it was the same with how brand everything he says is actually a truth or the or version of the truth.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And so he doesn't bother to run and make up something that it says different he says the carving says where is he.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And there you go Steve Mike drop name at the episode.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's yeah it's it's.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I'll say you know they take this body away and then he basically says don't tell anybody about this but he's kept that seed in her mind that where is he.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course she doesn't know it means saron and she probably thinks now that they're talking about somebody wanting Calibrium Boor I don't know what was going through her mind at that point.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know either but I just I feel like.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Anatar saron have a one referred to him but in this.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Right now he's anatar.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh he it's like he doesn't even have to hide really who he is anymore you know he when he he first.

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh you know introduced himself as anatar as this lord of gifts he was in this all white and he was he just seemed very ethereal and all.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Knowing and wise and good right according you know from their perspective but now he's in all this black.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like he's not even really hiding who he is I feel like he is just so under control that the end we see that so clear in this episode that he's so under control that he's not worried because I was like why.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Why wouldn't you guess that when it or why wouldn't you think that if if this message it says where you know where is he well he's the newcomer to.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Ergian.

[00:51:48] [SPEAKER_05]: You know why wouldn't you think but it's like he's not worried about that at all because he has everyone so much under his control and manipulation that he's okay to translate that message without being worried that someone might think it's him.

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Again classic narcissistic behavior is just not even worrying or caring what people think because you know that you're the boss with your own charge.

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like over the last several episodes we've seen you know like you say he started out humble and even with his clothing he's sort of quite Jesus like with those kind of ropes and then.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_07]: He's slowly starting to sort of not weird power but just sort of manipulate everyone to where rather than caliber and bore being the boss in him helping him he's over the last couple of the episodes.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Just started to take that power so for example we saw that good cop bad cop.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Last episode where he was sort of saying I don't worry about caliber and bore you know he's under a lot of pressure and it's okay we're going to be a team and we're going to all beat all of this kind of stuff.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So he started to take over the but really I did feel like this was the episode where he takes full power and you know visually really evident in that costume change so.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_07]: He's not wearing his his pilgrimey type robes anymore he's got what looks like kind of that alarm or a kingly kind of armor he's got that the gold kind of waste band and the black kind of feathered mantle that kind of goes over his shoulder was incredible I thought that was really really cool beautiful.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's realizing that that a region is under attack so he sort of sees what's happening with the with the walks gathering and you see him up on the top of that tower and he cuts his hand and I thought to myself what.

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_07]: What is he doing oh I wasn't sure at the time and then there's something that happens later that I think I realized why he did it but at the time I was like what's he doing.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And again that trope of people cutting their hand right across the palm where it's really unalmed.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a good well.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think he'll be good but yeah I think he'll be okay but I never understood that and like that's the worst place I think.

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's not good.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And then calibreable here's the seat alarm and he goes to go out and see what's happening and Anna Tire tries to make him stay and they have that altercation and calibreable actually shops and.

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And he says unhand me friend which was really cool.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you see Anna Tire go all quiet and kind of do a little bit of spooky woo woo breathing and obviously he's casting the spell to make killer breadboy see you know this beautiful sunny courtyard with happy smiling albs and birds chirping and everything's all okay.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought that was amazing it was really really cool.

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he basically convinces in once again we're in this we have to do it you've got to finish this job and he gives him fire nose hammer and remember we saw fire nose hammer and the probably the very first scene that we saw calibreable and way back in season one.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_07]: And we were here in our under talking kind of than calibreable was office and you see it's there just on display on a stand and he's an image in spanner or his grandfather.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And and then he also goes to the smile of of Macerail.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And I wonder hang on did he steal the Macerail because he went to to cause a doom and they wouldn't give it to him and part of he wondered whether he stole it.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_07]: But then I thought actually is that vial actually has blood from when he cut his hand and yes.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Even just as glad in his mind it looked like Macera or maybe he got a little bit of Macera or he's he's pretty clever he could have just snuck out and grabbed what he wanted from.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_07]: From cousin doing went after that said no I wouldn't think that would be challenging at all for him.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_07]: So maybe he went and grabbed some Macerail.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Powdered it up and put a few drops of his blood into it and infused it with his with his evil and then basically kind of that's part of his illusion to calibreable here as just this Macerail.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_07]: And so I'm delighted to remind part equally and there go your nine rings and for me that would really explain.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_07]: The power he has later over the kings of men when he gives them these nine rings that it's literally got his evil blood in it.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_07]: With the dwarven rings he held them me through when he kind of put his power into it before he put it into the forge, but with this one I actually really do think it's his blood in there.

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree it's the only thing that made sense for me when we see him cut his hand, but we don't see anything after that and then we see him hand.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_05]: The me throwl to kill a brim for I was like, hmm dude where'd you get that?

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, you know maybe you could have stolen it but and maybe he did and like he said in Fisa or it's just he's seeing he's making kill a brim for see what he wants to see.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_05]: You know just like when the rest of the vision that everything is just fine, you know in and arrogant.

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_05]: So I do think that there that it was not material or if there was then there he hasn't used it with his blood because I was thinking the same thing that it would make perfect sense that why those nine rings for men.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Why he had that controller and why he was able to manipulate them to his will and why he had such a strong hold on them.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: So I hope that's where they're going with it.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah I think so and I think also in this version of the story that we're seeing.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_07]: You know Anata had quite a lot to do with the forging of the seven and he was literally there and he was holding the me throw and passing it in.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think he's he's going to be a bit busy. First of all continuing this veil over caliber and more so that he doesn't notice that there's a war going on around him.

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_07]: While he finishes the ring so I don't think he's going to be his hands on literally his hands on with the nine as he was with the seven.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So I think that he has to put something into it for the encalibra water make them so that they still had the same level of power for him.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And I like that they were having this conversation standing right under the statue of Faye Norse. So you've got Faye Norse standing there in the middle of the courtyard with the with the semen world.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And he says to I just love this he says to caliber and board with the history of this age is written the semen world will mirror a little more than a whisper but your rings the rings of power they will be deemed the most precious creations and all middle earth.

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Do not turn back now the very moment your boots are kissing the threshold use it might be use it my friend best Faye Norse best yourself one last time and it was so much in there because

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_07]: First of all I think it's the first time that we've seen him say precious and he's talking about the rings which was so for quite a long.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_07]: He paused for the fans almost wanted to work to the camera.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I did just the just the inflection. I was like, dude you know just what you're doing.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So great. Yeah.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Faye the most precious creations of was great.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It was so good.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_07]: It was really cool and then I also thought what he was saying about the summer was almost a little bit meta it was kind of like everybody knows one of the rings but only those who know the deep floor.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I really understand the silver is what they're about and I thought that was actually true of our general knowledge you know everybody knows the Lord of the Rings everybody knows the rings of power.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And he's really appealing to Calibran Bois's pride and vanity to make these rings again he brings up Faye Norse.

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_07]: You know Calibran Bois wanted to make something that was singular and exceptional and to be just as grand as Smith as Faye Norse.

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_07]: So again he's bringing it in and he's appealing to that vanity and he's sucking him in as he says one last time.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And sorry for me but it is going to be the last time.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_07]: No spoilers on that anymore again.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah so we have talked about Faye Norse a little bit before but I'll go into it again now.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a little bit of law here for the background for anyone who's not familiar with it.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_07]: So he was the greatest of the Noldaw elves.

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_07]: He had this great skill of word and hand.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_07]: He was a craftsman, a warrior, who is a really incredible Smith.

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And as we know his most famous deed was the creation of the Celmerels.

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And he took the light of the two trees he created this incredible jewels, this sort of diamond like jewels.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And they were crafted of this crystalline substance which Faye Norse had devised you made it himself and they were named after it was called Silamah.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's why they called Celmerels.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And after he made him he became really really pretty silver for them and a really greedy of them. He didn't want anybody else to have them.

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And when the trees were destroyed, the bell I actually asked for the Celmerels back because they were needed to restore the light.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_07]: The only way to restore the light of the trees was to take watch. They had been kind of forged into the Celmerels.

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But he refused to give them back.

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And then at that point Melcore stole them and that's when Faye Norse gained Melcore, the his new name, Morgoth.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he made this terrible oath so it's the oath of Faye Norse.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And the oath was that anyone who stood in his way from any race or for any reason, he would show no mercy to.

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So anybody that got on the way of him in the Celmerels or tried to take the Celmerels or even touch the Celmerels that he wasn't happy with that he was going to kill.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And he actually did several rounds of kin slaying. So other elves opposed him.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_07]: He went against the bell I wish as any followed, Morgoth to Middle Earth.

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And then because of this terrible oath that he'd taken and the killing of his own people, the bell I placed upon his line, the doom of men do.

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_07]: So it was basically a curse so cursed him and has descendants for even more.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to read this directly out of the Celmerels because it is really really cool language.

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_07]: The bell I said to him, tears unnumbered, you shall shed and the bell I will fence Valle Norse against you and shut you out.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: So that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_07]: On the house of Faye Norse, the wrath of the bell I'll lie at from the west, until the aslemist east.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And upon all the all follow then a shall be laid also.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Their oath shall drive them and yet betray them and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_07]: To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well and by treason of Ken unto Ken, in the fair of treason shall this come to pass, the dispossessed shall they be forever.

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_07]: He has spelled the blood of your country unrightlessly and have stained the land of Amam.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_07]: For blood you shall render blood and beyond Amam you shall dwell in death's shadow.

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_07]: For though you're appointed to you not to die and no sickness may assail you yet slain you may be and slain you shall be by weapon and by torment you.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And by grief your houseless spirits shall then come to Mandos.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Their long shall you abide and yearn for your bodies and find little pity that all whom you have slain should entreat for you.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And those that endure in mid-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden and shall reign.

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And to become it as shadows of regret before the younger race that come after the Velaah have spoken.

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_07]: That's so cool and so powerful.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_07]: And this idea that they die but then they get reincarnated pretty much, so they go to the halls of Mandos.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_07]: They get judged and then pretty much most of them get reincarnated in a new body.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Sometimes it looks like they're old ones sometimes it's kind of new but they're pretty much, you know, just keep getting reincarnated.

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_07]: And so there's no such thing as true death but the idea that for him and for his, his kin because of all these awful deeds that they did.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_07]: That they're going to be stuck in this purgatory yearning to be reincarnated yearning for their bodies.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And even since that the people that they've killed will say that's okay let's give them their bodies back.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't mind like that actually a treat for them but it's still not going to happen.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_07]: They're basically not going to get any pity.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just thought that was really, really cool.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's really cool.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_07]: It really says that calibre bore is the last of Fainer's line so it happened you know over these thousands of years since this curse all of them have come to and not happy end.

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And then you get calibre and bore who's the last of the line trying to maintain or recreate the glory of Fainer or you know the good things that he did do and created the still murals before he kind of went off for the rest of the day.

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know he's still going to fail which is really sad and so moving in that that performance from Charles Edwin it's just really incredible to see him sliding into that descent of kind of just being taken over and being so disparate.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think it's going to get even more in the next episode or two so sad.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah it is sad.

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It's been he's been doing so great in his performance and his how he has you can just see that collapse of his mind as he just gets manipulated more and more by Annatar and such a huge deal.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_05]: You know the scene where he forgets merdenias name because you know just I cannot remember the exact episode but you know air and deer earlier in the season said elves memories never dim.

[01:05:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's like a really big deal like when she when her reaction she's like you don't remember my name you don't know like acting like he didn't know who she was.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's such a huge deal because it's it's it was said earlier it's been I think mentioned multiple times throughout lord of the rings that you know elves memory it's like flawless.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_05]: So while it might be typical more for a human to forget you know when they're under stress or once you get older it's not it's pretty much unheard of right in like elves like a killer group or so.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_05]: To you know to see that was just like it just you know it's another gut punch you know.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_07]: There was a criminal wasn't it and the acting there from the actress who plays medallion was amazing because she does not horrify not just like.

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_07]: It's slightly offended like you might have someone you know forgot your name and a meeting or something like that.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_07]: It was just right not believe it and yeah I love that they planted that seed earlier on with the odd on dear saying that the memory of elves does not dim and.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And you know he's potentially worked with her and it looks like a small group you know this sort of baby ten maybe maximum ten of them of these these really elite kind of Smiths.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah he's potentially worked with them for hundreds of not maybe a thousand years and and he's forgetting a name like it so it was really impactful.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And and then again.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Anatars kind of twisting that back to being you know look how much stress is under and it's we have to isolate him and he really has to focus now on all all of his stuff and.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Again, making it sound like it was his idea basically you know he's asked that we that we keep everybody away and.

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_07]: He's been in a lot of the time he's just a little bit on the top of the car was really heartbreaking.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's doing such a good job in in sliding back and forth between like I'm your friend and you know all of like making it like this is all there idea and not his manipulation and he just he's.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Great job.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Masterful wizard and yeah I actually love it.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I've seen a few interviews and you see Charlie Bacens being interviewed because he's just this like cheerful happy Aussie bloke.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Really like and he's and he's quite kind of like excited about it all the eager and like this is really cool to everything and then you see him you know these two really different portrayals as a hellbrand and Anatar where I do believe that he's being these planes such a different character.

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really incredible. So I'm looking forward to seeing what other iterations we get of Charlie is Salron because because I think he's just got so much depth to him and yeah it's absolutely stunning.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_07]: I see lots of fun praise online for the Charlie's they call them so Charlie Vokers and Charlie's.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Charlie's very seem together a lot which is really cool.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And they play off each other nicely and interviews too which is really cool. I think they must have had a great time shooting this together.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah absolutely amazing and then you know he's busy telling him that he has to do this thing one last time and then he sends calibre and we'll back into the forge.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_07]: The doors closed and then the day turns back into night and that scene was incredible.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And we've seen in the trailer before Anatar walking through this kind of chaotic dark courtyard all of these people are running around but to see it transition from one to the other was amazing and they had they actually showed some of that in the behind the episode.

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And I was super impressed that they actually filmed that in camera with lighting. I thought it was digital but when you go back and see it, they actually have one camera and they had the lighting and daylighting and then the camera just kind of panned around and followed him and then you can see the lights come down and then the you know,

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_05]: the action amazing job with the camera works cinematography really bringing to life this world and I thought that was beautifully done.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it was just gorgeous. And then he goes to the top of the tower again and he sees the you know the chaos, it's a bactuence you and he just slowly raises his arms.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought that was really powerful and then again in the behind the episode, B.M.A.C.R.E. the composer had this really cool description of that.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_07]: He said it's basically like he's conducting an orchestra and this was an idea from one of the showrunners was what if he lived his arms and he's actually literally conducting the orchestra because he's he's made everything happen.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_07]: That's happening right now. He's moved all the pieces around he's basically running the show. So what they did is they for the soundtrack for that part, they actually played over the the weeks of recording.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: They recorded every time the orchestra tuned up and so this is what you hear when he's starting to raise his arms.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_07]: He's seeing this hearing is really discordant music of all these different instruments playing different times and different out of key and different and those up notes up and builds up until it comes into harmony.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_07]: When his arms finally reached the top, I thought that was so beautifully done.

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: It's just like the sound of it and I read back and listen to it a couple of times after I had heard that interview.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really symbolic of him planning everything, bringing all the players together.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And I also love the deeper symbolism there that Salron's whole mission is to bring order out of chaos.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_07]: So more golf's whole thing was chaos, he just wanted to break the world.

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas Salron wants order, he thinks he's doing the right thing, he thinks he's the good guy and he wants to bring order out of chaos.

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And the idea that he's orchestrating all of these people and all these events, bringing it into harmony and standing there sort of full of power of the fact that he's doing that.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_07]: That was so incredible, loved it.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That's brilliant honestly and makes so much sense and Kudos to Bear McCurray.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we've, you know, I know he's been a part of so many projects but I think we know him really well just from the walking dead and the amazing things that he did there.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just I love seeing that he's a part of the show because he's just really brilliant.

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Now I need to go back and rewatch that and just really listen.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it really beautifully done.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And then after I saw that interview, I also downloaded the soundtrack from season 2 as well so you can get all of the score.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's amazing and there's a song that we're going to hear.

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I think at the end of the next episode that's on that soundtrack and it's basically Damrod the troll who we're going to see in the battle and as long as like it's like a death and metal song.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really funny.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Great.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not what you'd expect to think about it's really cool and then there's also heaps of other stuff.

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Almost like a bit sponary in terms of the title tracks of the of the of the songs or of the tracks as we get towards the end of the season and the episodes that we haven't seen yet.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_07]: There's some titles of the tracks there that you're like, oh, okay, that's going to happen.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_07]: That's going to happen.

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So you want to be completely unsquiled and maybe don't but yeah, I don't think it gives too much of a word if you know a little bit about the story.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I don't know what we're expecting as well.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, that was that was super cool.

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the other part I guess of that is that we haven't touched on is what happens in and because I do which again, there's so much else happening that I had to remind myself yes, still stuff is going on there.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, what did you think of that whole sequence?

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's a couple of times I know the super so did jump around quite a little bit, you know, you're going for one to the other but we did visit and cousin doing a couple of times.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_07]: What do you think of everything that's going on there?

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I love the story line with the doors and cousin do.

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's been a really strong storyline throughout season two, so I love any time we get to visit what's going on there.

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Although I mean, it's it's heartbreaking though to see King Duran really succumb to the ring.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And even more so in this episode where you just really like they're just dumping these piles of like gold because they're just he's got this ring now and it's a super secret finder for all the all the things that they need and you know, so he's like dig here dig here dig here we're going to keep going further and further than what we've ever.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've ever been to get to all these riches and you just see all this gold just surrounding like his throne room and.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_05]: When when oh so hard because you know during his son is like really excited to see him turn so on down and at our down like you know no no me thrill for you.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like well thank goodness I really thought you know that ring was really manipulating you and it was for the bad and he's like, you know well they're going to come crawling back they're going to need it and then we can ask in any price we want and it was like no.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It was just so heartbreaking and to see I felt like the door story lines had so much heart I really really love Prince Doran and.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_05]: You you see that in this episode how torn he is the love for his father but yet.

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: You know like when he's talking with Disa that something has to be done like that it's it's getting ready to get really really bad for the dwarves that live there so I love Disa I think she is amazing such a strong beautiful character.

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: The bats took me out just a little bit but I'm like you know I can it doesn't doesn't like.

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Take you know ruin anything form better is going okay.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: But otherwise I thought a really strong you know some scenes that we got there.

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: From Cousin doom.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it was really well done and the acting is just incredible you know all of them but I particularly loved a way and Arthur playing young Prince Doran in this in these few scenes because.

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Just to look on his face that pure relief when he felt okay it's great you're not going to give him the the me through and then there the realization dawning on his face that.

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_07]: That has father as you know fully under the spell he's still going to expand his dig. He's still going to you know exact any price that he wants from Anata and the elves for forgetting the me through and you know pennies talked about this one lot before in the podcast that.

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Seeing his father like this is sort of like seeing a parent losing their cognition you know whether it's to to disease or to old age or you know kind of degenerative kind of you know issue.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like an endurance year the last episode I you know I can still see him in there I can still see part of him and it's it's really heartbreaking and I also think it's a really good.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Kind of marrave having someone that you love in addiction because he's completely bound to this he can't see anything that's wrong and he's fine with it all.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And even to the point of during trying to literally take the the ring office hand you know that's really common and people who have dealt with that with someone that their lovers is trying to remove the cause kind of thing which.

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_07]: It's not always the best option in the moment but you can definitely say why he did that and then he just gets thrown across the road which is.

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So hard to watch it just heartbreaking for for during to yeah like I said there's you can see the deterioration and he I think he feels so powerless.

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And I can't imagine what that was what that was like for him in that moment.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah and there's a moment where King Durin says.

[01:18:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I will not give it to you it's mine belongs to me.

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And the way you see this so like no bow it was literally the same words I thought that was so clever and so well done.

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Even his facial expressions looked a little bit more than that moment when he said yeah just follow focus just like looking at it know it's mine it's my precious you know.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And then Durin prints Durin says to him no you belong to it.

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it was and the music in behind that was incredible too.

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of this slowly building strings and these really high is really kind of high pitched horns I think they use and it's basically the ring music so whenever you see and the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_07]: When you see the one ring or you see someone talking about the one ring there's this really high pitched kind of extended notes that we associate now with kind of the ring music and they play that so I know it's a door for ringing on the one ring that they had that same kind of emotional tether that you have.

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_07]: When you're thinking about the ring which was beautifully done again that was incredible.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And you've got D. Sir and Durin's you know staying true to each other they're just such this great team and they call off the call off of the bats.

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was a little taken out as well as kind of like wait what bats why bats and did we know that she had the bat power and how many bats has she got in stock for all of the different doors that are going to join mine in the different area.

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, again it seemed a little odd that I mean.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_05]: They live in a mountain and in these caves they probably encounter bats quite often when they're doing their digs or would they really be scared of the bat.

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't know whatever it's fine it was cool to see D. Sir like exercise her power I think yeah is always a really cool.

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, so I'm like oh, absolutely.

[01:19:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm sorry you definitely done absolutely love it.

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_07]: And then there's that moment as well where he just looks over at her and says I love you.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And she says love me later.

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So like that is so great.

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I love them so much.

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they're just absolutely adorable and sweet loving couple for sure.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So great together loved it.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and then the only other bit that I thought was quite sort of stuck out to me there was when.

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_07]: During there's no to unattar and then unattar looks over at the fire brace here and then the bell rock pops out.

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I wasn't sure like I was I could have taken that two ways one could be that he got a flash of the fact that there's a bell rock there and it was just a flash of the fact that there's a bell rock there

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_07]: and it's kind of foreshadowing and like oh well you've got that stuff coming to you or was it kind of like a threat like okay well that's fine.

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_07]: If you want to do this I can control everything that's dark around here and I can bring this on you because it didn't it didn't seem that the durians noticed it at all.

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_07]: It was really just an attire looking over and seeing it what what did you think of the bell rock in the flame there.

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Well first I was just like oh my gosh, you know kind of a fan moment and then once I come down I wasn't sure.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Either was it for shadowing that he got the glimpse that it's there because I think he knew like they're just they're just digging and digging and digging and digging and eventually they're going to get to a place that they've never been before and they're going to get so deep that it's the the bell rock is going to come out.

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Or if he's kind of wishing it upon them like okay you don't want to work with me well here you go I'm going to.

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Right you know reach out to this this creature to you know come out so is he instigating it or is he just going to leave them to their doom knowing that it's coming I wasn't sure either I wasn't sure how to take it but.

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Either way just very threatening and very sad knowing that yeah what's come and again you will get those um those.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolute kind of law sticklers who are going to say it's too early that's not better to happen yet until later but I mean I think it's going to work with the the arch of this story that we are definitely going to see some bell rock action and that's that's where they're going to go with it and I'm fine because I'm.

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not too bothered by timelines when you get to see a bell rock on screen.

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely and you know I am definitely not an expert in the lore or anything else you know I'm not read.

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: The books or any of the source material but I've tried to do a little bit of reason because I am fascinated by this world and and the characters and I want to learn the history of the people and the locations and everyone that has an impact or a part in the story.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know hearing um you know some folks say that I guess in the books the the siege of a rigion is like decades and decades well we can't watch decades and decades of a siege on a TV show you know it.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes sense that some things you have to kind of push forward and condense the story lines again so I.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_05]: You know and of course I've come from this point of view from like house of the dragon and having read the books and you know I have my gripes about things and I that's why I'm like I'm really glad I maybe don't have that knowledge that I can't pick apart any of this and I'm free to just enjoy.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_05]: The show without having that knowledge sometimes there's a a little bit of freedom that comes with that.

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I totally get what you say and I think we are rosy or there's because I've really enjoyed the coverage of House of the Dragon and I haven't read any of the books and.

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I always listen to the smaller section which talks about how similar they are to the books but I never listen to what might happen next.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Because I do want to remain as well with that and I know that feeling of just being able to let the show watch over you and really enjoy it for what it is and.

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_07]: I think you're talking about some of the things with George R. Martin books where.

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_07]: The timelines are going to be really different as well obviously not why this continues to be seen here but you know and this show when you've got some of these through lines with mortal characters.

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I know the newmanorans and the dwarves live for a couple hundred years so it took a bit more extended than we used to but we are not going to have that luxury of seeing.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: For example the you know anatau was in a region for 500 years making the.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's just a little bit.

[01:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah we're not going to have a however many season show and and be able to put that in there so you have to accelerate some things so I get it I'm you know I understand feelings about things like that but you know for for these purposes.

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes sense yeah so.

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_07]: The only one real question that I have sort of plot wise was.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So, Galadriel knows that siren is in a region because at our told him so basically how brand goes you know he handed himself an early in the season told a dad that there's this sorcerer there and.

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And a region making you know helping the elves do list the stuff.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_07]: But and then he obviously tells Galadriel.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_07]: But then does he say about the other rings I couldn't remember whether like how.

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Dusk and I drew now about the the rings for dwarves and the rings for me in order to just know that he's there making Mr. Fendou and more stuff you know because I never really talked about.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Further rings when they're making the three with help.

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_07]: And so I wasn't quite clear that I might have to go back and do a rewatch if anyone else picked that up yeah please just write it in an asno but.

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I wasn't clear that she knew for sure that there were more rings being made or whether it was just that she knew he was there.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Creating Mr. Fendou and messing with Calibran Boire.

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Did you pick up on anything like that?

[01:26:24] [SPEAKER_05]: No, and it's it's weird because we've got the audience perspective right like we know what's going on but we forget like oh well that.

[01:26:32] [SPEAKER_05]: And so the character doesn't know how would they know I don't think that they know anything about what's going on because soren kept taking out all the messengers between.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_05]: You know lindor or you know erygion so they don't know anything that's going on there I mean I think she obviously knows that if he's there then it means bad but I don't think she has any knowledge I don't recall anyway.

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Of her having any knowledge of any other rings outside of the three that were made.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And Calibran Boire had even seen because has messages when getting through there was one way messages were allowed.

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Has messages we're getting through to say they had shut down the forge and they had stopped everything right so yeah.

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure if that's an inconsistency or if it's just that they've used that as a plot device where they're accepting that we know about it and so therefore you know you've got to have the next actions stepping up.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just a good excuse to have to watch the whole thing again absolutely.

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Awesome well that's all my main points have you got anything else or any notes.

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Just a couple of callouts not really notes but just I think interesting things that I saw we talked about the ballerog and then the word precious being thrown around a couple of times.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_05]: You mentioned earlier when Calibran Boire's told Anatar unhand me friend I thought that was a nice little turn of words when you think of.

[01:28:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to say for sure in case it's spoilery but like something that happens to soar on later during the trilogy I was like hmm that's interesting turn of turn of words there turn of phrase and that he says to him.

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And then again I'm learning I'm learning and I'm new to so much in this world so this might be something that for everyone with the knowledge is like yeah that a dove course but something I just noticed from.

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It was either this episode or last episode was in Numanore like where the throne room area is and they have that area I guess where the eagle had come in there is a very large white tree.

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_05]: That this whole architecture and that tree is very reminiscent of Gondor which it took me a hot minute to put two and two together like I said still there is so much about all the connections and such but.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I just found that really really cool so I'm guessing that they have found a way to take seedlings or something from Numanore and it got to Gondor maybe that's spoilery but I just I couldn't help but like.

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know just clicked with me sometimes I'm so into the weeds of things it takes me a minute for things to click but I just thought that was really cool.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_07]: It's beautiful and it's always about the trees you know there's trees are really symbolic and we do see them in the through kind of story and we mentioned last week about the the island of you know see which is where this beautiful white tree first was grown.

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And a seedling from that tree was then brought to Numanore and created this tree there that we see and then yes a seedling from that tree does end up getting saved and taken to middle of and the white tree of Gondor is a direct descendant from that.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I won't go into who does it because it's a bit so it's wondering but yeah that's going to happen and I hope that we do have to see that I happen to because it's really cool.

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I love that.

[01:30:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay yeah it took me a minute to like connect the dots I think I think the rewatch helped me a lot like okay okay it was bringing all those those things kind of back so I've kind of had that in my.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_05]: imagery in my head and then seeing Numanore and I'm like wow look at how much is so.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Like similar between the two and then the tree just really kind of brought it.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah more me so beautiful yeah so we're just.

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Co the only other note that I had was of course our beautiful out on dear at the very start of the episode yes I think it was really cool because we get to see him obviously he's going to be ending up there.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_07]: I think we're going to be a little bit more.

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_07]: So we kind of have to see how he got there and this was just a nice little way of doing that finding these walks.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Killing them finding their map and going okay call Elizabeth River igion lets head down there and I also kind of thought they they're pretty sure that we're going to riot if we don't get East Mar Crews called over to you.

[01:31:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry it's an error.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_07]: We have a love at out on dear has to be on screen least of once in these two episodes and that you're so beautiful people are a little I'm telling you.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So gorgeous and the way he takes out those walks is fighting style is so beautiful I love how he always does the little turns and spins and and then he kind of kills that one without even looking behind them and then.

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_07]: So the sword goes straight back into the scaven and oh just beautiful I mean it wasn't very long but you know you do have to go back and watch a few times just to make sure he didn't miss any detail for sure on that.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah it didn't bother me to go to watch that a couple of times at all so well done beautiful love love love it brilliant okay great well I think what we do is we'll take a quick break and we're going to come back for some news and some feedback so stay with us.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And we're back and we've just got one news article this week that it's a fairly long one I really wanted to literally dive into the scene with Maryel C. Trial so we have an article here from Emerson.com.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Cynthia Adio Robinson breaks down Maryel C. Trial and the Lord of the Rings the Rings of power.

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_07]: On the island of Nomenal season two of the Lord of the Rings the Rings of power has been one long test of the inhabitants faith in the elves and the divine valour.

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Some like you King Arthadason, Tristan Gravel and his slimy son Kim and Leon Bottom are failing spectacularly even going so far to disagree the oldest valour shrine in Nomenal.

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_07]: A small few like former Queen Tom Adiel Cynthia Adio Robinson and former C. guard captain Elendale Lloyd Owen helped strong to their beliefs.

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_07]: That steadfastness has landed them in hot water with Elendale and prison and poised to be executed.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_07]: However, an episode six.

[01:33:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Thadason and his crony Lord Belzaga decide that Elendale can undergo trial by a best as his customary for the ways of the valour.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_07]: The C. trial is still as good as a death sentence. There's likely no coming back from it and Elendale knows it.

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_07]: If he dies, Ferris on Reak's not only the reward of wiping one of his detractors off the board but also gets to further discredit the valour by saying that they're banned and their followers in time of need.

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Lutfathers on couldn't predict was that Medial would volunteer herself in Elendale's place.

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a massive moment for Medial and a team to take back some control after being at her lowest point all season long.

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_07]: There was definitely an excitement of getting to put her in a position where there was going to be that show of strength at our Robinson told Mashable.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_07]: For Medial, there's also another layer to a choice that of sacrificing herself for Elendale.

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_07]: The decision marks a new turning point in their relationship, which initially started as a perfunctory leader and subject dynamic before evolving into something greater.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_07]: The two are bound by their shared faith in love with Nomenalwah. Now the two are each others greatest allies.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_07]: It's obviously a deep love there and I Robinson said, there's a lovely moment during a conversation after the debacle of the coronation in the episode 3, where she puts her hand on Elendale's chest.

[01:34:43] [SPEAKER_07]: It shifts the dynamic because that's not a leader subject, just a train scene, the romantic.

[01:34:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really more about respect and admiration and care and love between them that doesn't necessarily lend itself to a label.

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And I Robinson added, I love that there is room for interpretation for the audience.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_07]: If this should think we're all about it, that deep connection to Elendale is what pushes Medial to take on the trial of the abyss.

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, it's some doubt in her mind as she enters the water.

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_07]: But at our Robinson believes the serenity of Medial's decision at ways, the very human look out of doubt.

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_07]: If it is a sacrifice for the greater good, if it is a sacrifice for her people, if it is a sacrifice for an Indian, then it is a sacrifice with making at our Robinson's aid.

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_05]: The article goes on, the rings the power shot the lead up to Mirio's trial on location in 10th, 10th or if, 10th or if, I'm pronouncing that correctly.

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Months before at our Robinson filmed the underwater portion of the scene in a tank.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: At Pinewood Studios under careful supervision from a dedicated water safety team.

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: This tank worked and held some fascinating parallels to Mirio's predicament.

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Just like a nervous Mirio had to believe that the Volar would see her through, that I Robinson tempered her own worries about the scene with her faith in the people overseeing her.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I was absolutely terrified to be underwater. It's not my comfort zone at our Robinson explained.

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You spend a long day in the water and it's draining psychologically, as is the case with things that we have deep fear around.

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_05]: In a lot of ways you're facing your own mortality. Every minute I was down there, I had the panic response of I'm going to drown. I need to come up.

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So settling my mind and trusting people was to me the real exercise.

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_05]: In the end both at I Robinson and Mirio made it through the trial by a bus. The resulting scene is one of the rings of powers most gripping as Mirio faces down a massive sea monster that would leave any hero quaking in their boots.

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_07]: That's fantastic isn't it?

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_07]: I love what you were saying before about Nominor looking so awesome on screen and I think there was times where obviously was upset that the rings of power move from New Zealand to the UK.

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_07]: But I can also understand the reasoning behind a lot of it, particularly when you're looking at a cast who is going to have to be involved with this show for eight years or ten years.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Eight months at a time, you've recovered a year as it's quite a lot to be, you know, that far away.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_07]: There's times where I thought that it's just not going to look the same and you really need New Zealand with Nominor. It's all on set anyway.

[01:37:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And so the actual city itself is not going to be any different. And I thought this was a place where they were at head access to this kind of incredible, you know, cliff edge and this beautiful kind of cove that they had there that just looked amazing.

[01:37:38] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's fits really well with this story and I thought it was just beautifully done and the way that they blended that with what a work that they did in the tank was incredible.

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It was one of those scenes where I wish I hadn't seen the trailer.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, Penny and I did a trailer breakdown, you know, before the season starts and so we kind of get excited and all this stuff.

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_07]: There's been a few moments throughout where I kind of got a wish I hadn't seen that because it was so beautiful.

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_07]: But that figure of Marie Allen, the water with this, see when coming up to her was just gorgeous.

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, it was it was it was worth the wait. I knew that it was coming but yeah, we're so beautiful to see really loved it.

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you certainly couldn't tell that she was actually like nervous to do that. You know, she was talking about being out of her cumbersome and being worried about like I'm going to drown.

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I need to get back up. I can only imagine I'm not, I don't love water, you know, and I can, you know, have that fear as well. So I totally understand where she's coming from.

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So you that that really shows that she was able to get to a place.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, because you can't read that on her face at all. She looks so peaceful and serene despite this giant worm.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_05]: See, we're being in front of her.

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_07]: It was incredible. So I love that the actress uses the same word that you did this serenity. And I think that's obviously what's driving her kind of performance.

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really maintaining that serenity throughout no matter what else is happening.

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, absolutely beautiful.

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_07]: That was great.

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_07]: All right. So we got some list of feedback this week. Would you like to start us off there, Rima with a comment from Greg from Facebook?

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I would love to. So Greg says, I have to admit, while I really enjoyed this episode and where it ended up,

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt a little bit of the game of Throne's syndrome between the stranger, bombadill, the stores, the durians, the dark,

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Gallagherial, soar on, caliber and bore and new manure. It was too much.

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: They should feel free to exclude a storyline that isn't fleshed out this episode.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I really wish that I could have gotten a little more of the stranger and bombadill.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Effectively one scene of inner turmoil wasn't enough for me.

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Loved the durian father sent face off, and during the forced crisis of conscious regarding its impending to overthrow his father,

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: or really take any action against him whatsoever.

[01:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And Disa continues to show that she is a BAMF in turn the fourths.

[01:40:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I love you, was poignant and hysterical. When Soron was visiting Cousa Doom and got turned down by King Durian,

[01:40:19] [SPEAKER_05]: did he see the ballrock in the flames? Is that why he was basically like, as you wish, peace.

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Numinor was really cool, but unfortunately it feels like stuff we've seen before, and I'm a little bored with it.

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's visually stunning, but the bad guys are really bad. The good guys are really good and pitiful, and it just seems like old hat at this point.

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm waiting for the twist. I liked the poppy and nobody seen, but the revelation that the harfots or hoppets that just haven't settled may be significant to Nori, but meh. Okay, fine, whatever.

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Brutia Dar and Brutie Gallagheril, sure. Okay, we need to see the recognition that Soron has orchestrated this.

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_05]: The bear McCree tit bit about the music was Soron on the parapet was awesome, but it felt a little filerie.

[01:41:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I really love the Soron Killer Brembrourer signs, especially the last one. Even though Prissy Soron irritates me,

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I get a pretty big Nargasm with the transition visuals, and then they end on the landing of the fiery whatever an air gun.

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Can't wait to see what happens next.

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_07]: That's brilliant. Thanks so much, Greg. I love it. I definitely agree with the jumping around.

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I was happy to see all of the different scenes and the different things that were happening with everybody, but I did feel like it jumped to and fro a little bit too much.

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_07]: There was a couple of things where they jumped from Numa Nour to Casa Dume and back again twice, and I kind of thought you could have just had all of that at once and then all of the other one at once.

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think it would have been too jarring, but I did find this switch from one to the other because so much is happening now that you feel taken out of the story when you lose one plot line.

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_07]: But definitely.

[01:42:04] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry you don't get the same buzz from Numa Nour as we do, but I'm just guessing maybe you're not quite as enamored with a lendialis.

[01:42:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So my plan is just a little bit.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know when the show is listened to us or when they listen to pretty much everybody out there when we've all been talking about how much hotter we go is when his duty compared to when he's playing because that shirt a lendial.

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_07]: That was their filthyest piece of costume I have ever seen on screen honestly looked like he had wanted for a year without taking it off. It was both.

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And I thought he looked fantastic.

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_07]: He liked her amazing.

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_07]: And real life you wouldn't want to be anywhere within about four meters of that, you know, with your nose because it grows.

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_07]: But oh my god he looked amazing. Absolutely amazing.

[01:42:57] [SPEAKER_07]: No, we'll heroic. You know and I just think it's really cool. You know knowing the contrast we're going to see him go from that to hiking and I love it.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I hope we get to see that one day.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, this is really awesome. Thanks so much Greg really appreciate it.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_07]: We got some voice mail as well and we've got one here from Sam.

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Hi Sam, another great episode just more of the Sauron manipulations as Nitar.

[01:43:26] [SPEAKER_04]: That scene where he was manipulating Khabimboa and showing him sunny bright happy people in his city.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And the director just pans around and you just see the accuracy of the horror that is happening there was masterful.

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_04]: That was just I I ruined it. Watched it a couple of times because you're just loaded into this full sense of peace.

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, as viewers, I don't know. I kind of thought that might be I don't think they're this happy because no thing I mean wants to stop and then I was like, okay and then just that pan around to that complete chaos just like 180.

[01:44:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think this is the first time I've ever been thoroughly creeped out by Sauron's powers.

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And he's powerful. I get it. I like him being able to look into the fire and sense the evil that is in because of the.

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But seeing this sort of manipulation of reality having a be so far from the truth. That's like right in front of you.

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, it's just like gaslighting to the extreme. Like I don't know, it was just really haunting us still kind of gives me chills thinking about it. Like you came and trust your own eyes around Sauron and I know they talked about this, but it was just really beautiful and wonderful and effective to see it.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a little poor caliber. I get to feel like this is going to end well. Like I don't know, the seams pretty terrible and a region like those those things coming in from the sky like, oh, this seems rough.

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_04]: A little question I had as a question.

[01:45:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Why is Sauron so insistent on making the nine rings for man?

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_04]: He already has the offerings. He already has a door for the rings and I know what he's telling everyone else that he wants to do is it just because he wants to have more evil minions or something.

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_04]: He was just very, very insisted even in the light of at our being outside the region like he's like cool. The guy who killed me is still there and I'm just going to let it go.

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just I'm confused on his complete obsession with making these rings and like what it was happening. And also so at our new that hell brand was so on white, why do you let him go?

[01:46:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you let him go because he's like, I know I can't defeat Sauron on my own again. I don't know, the element of surprise. So I'm going to let Halbran run off to a region.

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I was just very confused on the completed minute. You knew it was your friend of me, Sauron.

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_04]: So I was fascinated by that maybe you guys have more insight into that. The kiss with the harfots was kind of cute. I was really stressing out that one of them was going to get bit by that snake that they were milking.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh no, this is going to be terrible. I assume you all have anti-bent in a bigger like actively milking that snake for the poison. I think it was snake.

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I mean that everything else was so beautiful and I mean the harfots are they're sweet characters. I just have no interest in seeing them.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_04]: They feel like they're in a different TV show. So yeah, I'm kind of with with you guys of like I hope they get tied into the larger storyline because it seems like with Gandalf and also stranger, but come on, Gandalf.

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_04]: This is my opinion of it's reminded me a little too much of Damon and Aaron Hall from House of the Dragon. We're spending way too much like legit very entire experience in this show, the stranger in this episode was he had a flash in the future the past something like that.

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And then all of them, the river fails to be delightful, says find your stick or your screwed forever. And that was it. I'm like what is happening? Like we're getting like peace meal the storyline and it's starting to make me agar.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_04]: So it's just like overall amazing. I can't wait to get back to our idea on. I'm so excited to see where this goes and just cause I do man is continues to be awful and brutal and I love decent that little sweep of her cloak as you do that.

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_04]: It's it's like from show gun. I loved it. So I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say.

[01:48:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks Sam. That was brilliant. So good. Yeah, I think with the sounds of station with the rings and some ways the nine almost even more important. So the three he doesn't really have any power over. Once he makes the one ring he can see the hours when they're wearing their rings but he doesn't it doesn't make him the head power over them.

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_07]: With this even, you know it increases the dwarves greed which can potentially help him later but he again doesn't really have power. But the real power actually comes with the nine so once he's got these nine powerful kings of men that he can control that really does help with bringing further darkness to mid-learth. So in some ways I think it's almost more important that he's got those.

[01:48:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And then with a dire, yeah, interesting question why didn't he just take help-brand out of you?

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I kind of wondered that as well and I think maybe that he knows that help-brand is in this physical force or in this physical form and he knows that he's taken him out before in that way.

[01:49:23] [SPEAKER_07]: And maybe he's wanting to try something different. I'm not sure though because it's kind of like well, he had a right in his grasp but later on he's just going to attack with a much bigger weapon of all of these thousands of walks. What did you think about that?

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, but did a Darno for sure that that was soar on. I thought and maybe maybe I misunderstood the conversation between him and Gallageryl.

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought he wasn't sure that hell-brand was soar on. He was maybe suspicious but wasn't sure so he let him go to try to kind of as a test like yeah, it is a story.

[01:50:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's how he took it.

[01:50:07] [SPEAKER_07]: And then he, hey, him asking Gallageryl really confirmed it for him so he was kind of sure. Yeah, I think that's what it was. What do you think of the diamond hair and whole comparison?

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I got a good start to expert. Yeah, well, oh goodness, I don't know about expert.

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I can definitely see some parallels there for sure.

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think that, and for my opinion it's handled better here in rings of power than maybe what a house of the dragon did in season two.

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it also depends on the size of the payoff, right? Like I found, I found Damon just like it was episode after episode. I was like, how much spooky we were stuff can we have from her, you know.

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think having that number of episodes to really see the effect that it had on it and then the payoff of her actually coming around to the way that he did was super satisfying.

[01:51:10] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, but we're still talking only maybe seven or six episodes. We're as stranger with head for 40 episodes.

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's still not there yet. So I get you some. I totally get you. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_07]: That's awesome. All right, we also got a message from Denise.

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, ladies, this is Denise offering some thoughts on episode six of Rings of Power.

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I was thoroughly impressed at how Sarah can create basically a holiday image in killer brim borers mind, assuring him that a reggae on was fine and I could go back to making the nine rings when in reality everybody was running and screaming for their lives.

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You can tell, Kilibrem borer is struggling with anotar trying to, you know, reassert some sort of equality and power there.

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at the same time, anotar just keeps, you know, pegging at his pride to get him to focus on the nine rings and don't worry about anything else.

[01:52:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So the point that Kilibrem borer, you know, gives up administrative power to Sarah, which I thought was nuts.

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you can go back and make the nine rings.

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So when we go ahead and move over to the eight hour, gladiaries story art, gladiaries, you know, Warren's eight hour, you're walking into a trap basically bringing Sarah on an orc army that he did not have previously.

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, you're laying siege to Euregion, but you're doing it at the manipulation of Sarah not because of your own intent to find Sarah and destroy him.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that is also a masterful play, but Sarah is trying to get Kilibrem borer to force the rings fast enough.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can get those nine rings all fast, you know, before the siege concludes.

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can go on to form the one ring.

[01:53:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We have moved over to Numanor. I am not a fan of the actor who's playing phareson.

[01:53:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Phareson is a very substantial character in the books and I wish this actor was more elevated to where he could elevate the role.

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I should say there's I don't think there's any other way to say that. And I think he's just a week a key portrays phareson is very petty, very low rate low rank and whereas in the book phareson is quite substantial.

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm having a hard time with that and I'm having a hard time with the pregnant pauses long looks between Ellen deal and myriel can we in that now we know they like each other can we in that now can we move on.

[01:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise I thought it was a great episode. I thoroughly enjoyed it and I look forward to hearing your bit of thoughts every day.

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Brilliant thanks so much to nice another person not a fan of the late deal in video.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, well that's okay. This is something for everyone.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: There is we all don't have to love the same things especially.

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah, you're point about Tristan Gravel who plays phareson.

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_07]: I see what you mean but my take on it is that he's playing this very cautiously now.

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_07]: We've talked about it at the beginning where you can't have too much mustache twirling from the beginning.

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Those of us who know him and no one has arches going to be are expecting greater things from him.

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think that for the casual viewer who doesn't know the story you can't know from those first few episodes that he's going to be super villainous because you need to see him play it perfectly.

[01:55:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I think and I think that's what the actor is portraying to my mind anyway.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And that sort of demonstrated in a lot of the scenes that he's done where he just sits and watches.

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_07]: So if you remember that scene in the pub where Kevin and Valindia were getting into the argument, he didn't intervene at all. He just sat and watched and listened.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And several of the other scenes he's done the same as well.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_07]: So I think he's playing it quite now and we're going to see a lot more.

[01:55:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Grunge your endocannus from Ham later as we move through.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's going to be really interesting to see.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_07]: As awesome.

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_07]: All right, thank you so much for that Denise and we also have a voice mail from Penny.

[01:55:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yay!

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_07]: With us this week, I'm so really glad that you've seen us here thoughts.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much. Here we go.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, Annwin and Rima and a big thank you to Rima for filling in for me since I'm not there this week.

[01:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I loved episode 6. What an action packed adventure it was.

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about it.

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to put in my two cents about King Durin and how I think his storyline is a real commentary on the military industry of complex.

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And the way that war profiteering can destroy your humanity and requires people because of greed to root for war to break out.

[01:56:40] [SPEAKER_03]: It's incredibly upsetting.

[01:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I also just want to mention that I continue to absolutely adore Durin and Denise's relationship.

[01:56:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And after she sang those bats out and he turned and he was like, I love you.

[01:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And she said, love me later. I lost my grip. That was so funny and adorable.

[01:57:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Have a good week you guys. Love you. Bye.

[01:57:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks, Penny. Love you too.

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That is awesome.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_07]: It's really cool.

[01:57:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm a little bit invious of Penny. I have to admit because she wasn't recording for this show.

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_07]: So this year since Episode 6, she went ahead and was able to watch Episode 7 on our screeners.

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_07]: But I kept myself pure. So that I could record today without knowing what happens in the next episode.

[01:57:27] [SPEAKER_07]: And the sad tragedy is that the screeners only last for a couple of weeks. So they've actually expired.

[01:57:32] [SPEAKER_07]: So I can't see it.

[01:57:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, so even though it's not even though I'm not recording next week, it's either.

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be Penny and some guests.

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_07]: But unfortunately, I'm going to have to wait. Like everybody asked me to say the rest of us.

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So funny.

[01:57:50] [SPEAKER_07]: But yeah, it's funny because you've been to the top that the three episodes released it all together at the beginning.

[01:57:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And that was a mission, Penny and I, too, record.

[01:58:01] [SPEAKER_07]: We didn't do it all in one weekend but we did do it across two weekends including our prep episode.

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So we did four episodes in a couple of weeks and it was, I don't know how you can get the chance.

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, but the good thing about it was that I kind of knew what was coming up.

[01:58:18] [SPEAKER_07]: So as I would have do quite a bit of research ahead of time before even seeing each episode.

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So it took a little bit of the time out of it. But yeah, it's worth the work because it's just so much fun to talk about and so to watch all of this cool stuff.

[01:58:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we're out of breath. Both of you are so brilliant at covering this show. So it's much appreciated all the work that you both put into it.

[01:58:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you so much. That's awesome. And thanks everybody for the messages we really appreciate them.

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_07]: If you would like to write an all-ever submissive, she can find all our contact information at podcast.com.

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_07]: You can also send a voice mail and all the ways to contact us right there. So go on along and have a little look there.

[01:59:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and while you're there, make sure to check out all of our other podcasts.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Something there for everyone and something new coming out very soon will be Agatha all along.

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm so excited about that. We actually watched the first episode last night and so yeah, it's really cool.

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, quite a lot darker than some of the other shows that we've seen from Marvel.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, it's obviously an offshoot from Wonder Vision which did get dark at times, but I think this is going to take a different track and just interest every moment of Catherine Harlan screen is just incredible because she's amazing.

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_05]: She is absolutely amazing and I love her. I mean, one division was just I thought such a fantastic show.

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the emotions I felt just wow, you know, watching that show just the places it took me was incredible and Catherine Hawn and her character Agatha.

[02:00:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought I was just, I mean, I love her and everything I've seen her in so I haven't got a chance to watch it yet, but I can't wait.

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I've been waiting for this one. I think she's just brilliant. I can't wait to see the show and also listen to the coverage.

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, I've impressed so far. I think it's going to be great and you know, it's been a while since we saw the lead up that I managed to find on YouTube a really cool.

[02:00:24] [SPEAKER_07]: This is super out there but I did find a really cool kind of Agatha homework type video, which takes you with that.

[02:00:32] [SPEAKER_07]: System in its long and it takes you through all of the backgrounds that you need to know from all of the Marvel films and from all of the shows that lead to the story and the background, which is really cool because it's actually so much and a lot of the previous Marvel movies that touch on it as well.

[02:00:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So Hiday recommends that if you're going to go into Agatha all along and you're not so familiar with comics or anything, go ahead and have a little look at that and it will just remind you of all the little main touch points that you kind of need to know before you get into it.

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, I can't wait to hear a penny and everyone talk all about that outside of this.

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be great.

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And what have you got coming up on Strange Indeed?

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, super excited for what we have coming up next.

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_05]: We've been on a little bit of a pause since we wrapped up sweet tooth back in was it June feels like forever ago.

[02:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: But we'll be back next week if if you haven't seen in the news this come out great British bake off returns next week and you know it's just become this weird little tradition that we started covering it just as well.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_05]: It was like kind of like why not we we love talking about it, you know and like offline in our group we you know we would always kind of talk about it's like why don't we just put a little.

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_05]: You know put it at the end of one of our episodes and then it became its own episode and we're just continuing on that tradition so the newest season hits Netflix on Fridays.

[02:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So September 27th it will hit the the US on Netflix on the 27th I think it premieres in the UK.

[02:02:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the 24th September 24th so we'll we'll be picking up our coverage of that because you know it's if we could use a comfort watch during any time it's definitely right now.

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So I just love that you guys cover that we have gotten to the habit of watching that together as a family and we really enjoy it.

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm excited on free to air TV here at New Zealand and it's usually up to date so I'm looking forward to just checking out when we can watch that and.

[02:02:40] [SPEAKER_07]: I just love how you know we watch all these dark shows and then we need a show to watch as a public lenser and then the fact that you're covering it as well means we've got all this dark podcast coverage and then we've got this beautiful light and delicious.

[02:02:54] [SPEAKER_07]: podcast that we can listen to to cover that which is great. I'm so glad you're covering it again.

[02:02:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's I can't wait Wendy and Greg will be joining and you know I'm trying to get paid as well to join us if if schedules allow and of course you know who knows you never know who's going to turn up.

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: During during one of the episodes so thank you for for listening. I'm you know, I thought is anyone even going to care this is not what we normally cover but we've had really good response and.

[02:03:22] [SPEAKER_07]: You know we did think that because I'll definitely see them some big back.

[02:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: If we get feedback then I will absolutely.

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Include it we don't often we did not get a lot last year for the last season but if we get anything then it's definitely included.

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Fantastic. I also love going to their website and trying to recreate the dishes afterwards which is really cool.

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_07]: This one take that they made with was proves lemon lemons our tray bake cake. Oh my god, it's so good. I've taken it to various occasions and everyone loves it. So yeah.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_05]: That's wonderful. I love it. I love hearing stories like that.

[02:04:03] [SPEAKER_07]: It's so beautiful. Fantastic. Oh, that's great.

[02:04:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So now it is going to be time to have a little look into the ledgerals mirror. So if you are happy to hear possible spoilers for future episodes and future seasons of the show.

[02:04:19] [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to discuss how the show compares with the book and some of the things that we think might happen next.

[02:04:25] [SPEAKER_07]: So if you don't want to be spoiled we'll see you next time. If you do please join us now for the ledgerals mirror.

[02:04:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Will you look into the minute? What will I see things that are and some things that have not yet come to pass?

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Alright. So a couple of things that I wanted to talk about here.

[02:04:52] [SPEAKER_07]: I will see we're building up to this massive battle, the siege of Erigion. And this is a pretty important plot points.

[02:05:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It is a little bit out of order when compared with the book. So in the books, Sarah makes the seven and the nine first and then he makes the three and then he goes away and makes the one.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And in the books at this stage when we have this battle sounds actually already left Erigion. His return to Mordor made the one ring and then when he puts on the one ring, he knows that the elves have got the three because he actually isn't aware of the three at all.

[02:05:30] [SPEAKER_07]: There has been made in secret without him knowing.

[02:05:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And so he's only aware of them. He doesn't have power over them but he's still connected to them. So he puts the one ring on, he can sense the other three and at that point.

[02:06:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's a little bit different twist to it. And I think it is quite clever how they've done it. The effect is going to be the same. You're going to have the sack of Erigion.

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And in the book, El Rondon Gilgoloz we're sent to help defend Erigion and then you've got this massive clash between the two armies which we are definitely going to see. Based on what we've seen already in the trailer so that's going to happen for sure.

[02:06:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And it's just about how much they show where they kind of end that I guess we've got two more episodes to go. You do have to end a season with some kind of resolution even though obviously it's still going to be fairly cliffhangering in terms of the fate of the people's and what happens next.

[02:06:54] [SPEAKER_07]: But we're definitely going to see that Alsharp and a big battle. And I don't know whether or not they're going to have the door strap so in the book, the doors also come to help to none of it really helps in it and the city's pretty much destroyed and then everybody runs off and does their own thing. So,

[02:07:25] [SPEAKER_07]: you're going to have all these pieces at the end of this special with whatever is going to happen next. And then of course we're also going to have the death of Calibran Boa.

[02:07:38] [SPEAKER_07]: So, as interestingly like I said before, listening to the soundtrack, there's a one very long sort of about 11 minute piece of music that is covering the siege.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And there's a section about halfway through that where I listened and I was like, oh, I think that's Calibran Boa going out because it was the kind of what we now recognize as the alpha cycle of the alpha death music.

[02:08:02] [SPEAKER_07]: So, if you remember, you're just fresh off the rewatch of the trilogy but remember it has a deep wind, a healthier, a beautiful keyweactor Craig Parker who plays the alpha healthier.

[02:08:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, it's killed and it is probably I think maybe the first time that we see an alpha killed on screen in the trilogy or one of the first times.

[02:08:22] [SPEAKER_07]: And you get this high kind of, you know, alpha, alpha, and in this, this battle of a regeon piece there is a moment of that and I thought, oh something's burned down.

[02:08:36] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, my question as always and we've talked about this before is how far are they going to show it? What are they going to show because Calibran Boa is tortured by Sarah on to try and find that we are out where the rest of the rings are.

[02:08:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He tells him the location of this, the seven and the nine but he never gives away the three he keeps that a secret and is tortured to his death.

[02:08:58] [SPEAKER_07]: He then gets basically stuck on a pike shot through with arrows and then his body is paraded as a banner at the head of the army.

[02:09:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So depending on how far they go with the gruesomeness of that it is going to be really interesting to see and by the way, whether they just imply that whether they do shot fully it's going to be heartbreaking.

[02:09:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think there's going to be that moment where either Galadriel or our on or both see this happening to their to their old friend so it's going to be absolutely heartbreaking.

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially with his matches what we've gotten to know in Calibran Boa throughout the show.

[02:09:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly, yeah. And then the other main thing that I really wanted to talk about was just what's happening in Nerminois.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_07]: So you know we've got the faithful and we've seen this chilling and throwing between sort of who's in charge or who the crowd is following in terms of the kingsmen or the faithful.

[02:09:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And we've seen fighters on beginning to try and crush the old faith.

[02:10:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And last week when they closed the shrine and you had the killing of Fallen Diel, actually forgot to mention that who the idol of the Valar, the little statue that they smashed was always all taken up with them with their heartbroken over Valen Diel.

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But quite a good emblem I think that's the idol of Nena, which is the who was the Valar of Morning. And so the fact that they're kind of worshiping her and they're dealing with their grief through the worship of this Valar of Morning.

[02:10:29] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought was really beautiful. And more and more I thought about it was really the contrast between Elendio and Earian where she's not working through her grief. She's turning it into anger and kind of vengeance.

[02:10:42] [SPEAKER_07]: She's not grieving with her father for a seal door who they believe is dead or she would have been there in the shrine with them. So the smashing of the grief statue basically was was really poignant and again a symbol of them trying to get rid of this faith for the Valar that the faithful have got.

[02:11:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's just going to continue on and on as well because I think we're going to see a lot more of what happens there with the persecution of the faithful that's just going to continue on until we get to a much, much darker place with Faraz on there.

[02:11:20] [SPEAKER_07]: And I really like to gain the portrayal of this idol of Nena and bring it back to the law again.

[02:11:30] [SPEAKER_07]: When they're in a golden into the big giant spider and more goth destroyed the trees when they tried to get the trees to come back to life.

[02:11:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Nena was the one that wept and her tears went on to the trees and it caused just one last silver flower and one last golden fruit to grow on them before the trees died.

[02:11:48] [SPEAKER_07]: And then she and Yavana, who's the Valar and charge of all the growing things, made those that flower and that fruit into the sun in the moon, which I think is really cool.

[02:11:58] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's a really nice part of the story and some of those I kind of liked that they didn't name that it was Nena but those of us who are fully with the law will kind of know.

[02:12:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And it was just a really beautiful portrayal I thought.

[02:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's another example of all these old traditions that they have.

[02:12:15] [SPEAKER_07]: So the faithful will be aware of all of those things that happened in the legends with the creation of the sun and the moon and all of that kind of stuff.

[02:12:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And I quite like that one of the sort of symbols of Nena or as a sun, like you see it in a lot of their hero dream things like that in the top of the sector that Faraz on now has is as a sun as well.

[02:12:35] [SPEAKER_07]: And so these old traditions are being basically forbidden and they're going to start rounding them up and it's going to become forbidden completely to worship the Valar.

[02:12:45] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's going to be interesting to see what happens with that as well.

[02:12:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:12:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And then with Faraz on so like I see it up, you know, I was like hey I'm awake.

[02:12:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see now the Queen again because Faraz on is is you know they're saying Queen Maria, Queen Maria and Faraz on just only looking all grumpy with her with a straight black eyebrows.

[02:13:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And I know.

[02:13:08] [SPEAKER_07]: And so I kind of was like I really interested to see what's going to happen.

[02:13:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I guess in the next couple of episodes with that because in this story, they actually marries Maria by force.

[02:13:21] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's how he gets power is that he marries and his first cousin and so the book basically says that he does he does this evil thing by taking her for marriage by force.

[02:13:31] [SPEAKER_07]: But the second evil is that that's actually forbidden in their culture so you can marry a second cousin but you know how to marry your first cousin.

[02:13:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And so he's sort of done this this double evil and taking her as a wife and that's how he got his power.

[02:13:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they're going to go there.

[02:13:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought that they weren't because of this whole.

[02:13:50] [SPEAKER_07]: He's just happened to take advantage of the evil coming and that's how he got his power.

[02:13:54] [SPEAKER_07]: But now that I see what's happening with her regaining some of her respect from the people with passing the sea trial,

[02:14:01] [SPEAKER_07]: I think he might still use it as a backup plan and I kind of think that I'm going to go there.

[02:14:07] [SPEAKER_07]: It'll be really interesting to see whether they actually will or not and I have to go back and defend to their appendices to see how much is in there in terms of.

[02:14:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Because a lot of it's explained in the downfall of minimal which is a chapter as a book and itself and it's also a chapter of this summary and but to see how much they actually go there with that and then what that means to this kind of.

[02:14:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So I've created a relationship between a lentil and medium what that's going to mean for the two of them but either way it's going to be tragic so yes.

[02:14:40] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be great.

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, was there anything else that you had in terms of spoilers any questions or thoughts on anything that might come up based on what we've seen.

[02:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I mean, I think we've we've covered most of it but it's like I don't I don't know what I don't know I kind of.

[02:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I stumble upon things in like as I think we were talking might have been before we start recording that you know because I am so interested in the in the lore and I haven't read the source material that I'm like I want to know more about this character so of course.

[02:15:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm doing that I get exposed to things which I'm okay with sometimes I don't like spoilers but you know I don't go look for them so if I do learn a little bit of something that I don't get to.

[02:15:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Toorn up about it so I'm like well I don't know if that'll play out the same in the show you know you don't know exactly where it will go.

[02:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And and how it will look so so honestly there's just a lot I don't know so I don't even really.

[02:15:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Have any other questions but I'm really interested to see how they choose to play it out and I'm just seeing what they've done so far I think I think they'll do a good job whatever they decide to do.

[02:15:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think it's great I've got full trust in them now and you know the showman has got access to the lore of the rings the Hobbit and the appendices of the world the rings.

[02:16:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And then anything that's not and there they have to go case by case to the Tolkien estate to ask permission to use and on my feelings that they're probably going to get more and more as they go on I think that the Tolkien estate is probably going to trust them more with what they're telling.

[02:16:17] [SPEAKER_07]: So let's see where that goes I'm not 100% sure but I don't like that.

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah so that the name Anata is not does not appear in the lore of the rings so they talk about the lore of gifts and about him going and and you know making the rings and so I'm but their actual name doesn't appear so they had to go specifically to Tolkien estate to ask the permission to use the name so there's little pieces like that it's all very.

[02:16:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I think they have a title and legal requirements but yeah I think I'm hoping that they're happy with what's happening and yeah it's a right issue but yeah I think they're doing really well what they can with the information that they've got.

[02:16:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah so that's really really cool.

[02:17:00] [SPEAKER_07]: And yeah I think that's actually just about it it's been a wonderful.

[02:17:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think it's ever going to be a chance for us to get these episodes under two askers is just so much to talk about so thanks everybody if you still listen.

[02:17:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely no.

[02:17:16] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's always worth that you know on the listener and it just flies by you know you're just so into it like in I can I can attest as a listener and also podcasting it doesn't feel like we're.

[02:17:27] [SPEAKER_05]: We're sitting here for this long doing it totally worth it.

[02:17:31] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm so far from this and it's great and thank you so much for coming on this week when Penny couldn't be here really appreciate it and love talking to you about a lot of the rags that's fantastic.

[02:17:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course I mean huge shoes to fill in in Penny's absence but I'm happy that I was available you know I don't have anyone to talk to this about this show.

[02:17:52] [SPEAKER_05]: So this was definitely a great outlet for me.

[02:17:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.

[02:17:55] [SPEAKER_07]: So welcome to this episode and we're going to flip things around a little next week I'm not going to be around because I'm going to be and wellington the true spiritual home of Middle Earth and Penny is going to be covering episodes seven the penultimate episode with really and Jason so I'm really looking forward to hearing what they have to say about this next massive battle episode so that's going to be really really cool.

[02:18:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah good times.

[02:18:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Fantastic.

[02:18:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Well thanks everybody that is our show.

[02:18:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening everyone.

[02:18:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be so hard wedding for next week's episode but if it is the will of the valour that we have the patience then it will be.

[02:18:38] [SPEAKER_07]: What if it isn't?

[02:18:41] [SPEAKER_07]: The sea is always right.

[02:18:43] [SPEAKER_05]: The sea is always right.