27: Rings of Power Season 3 Preview

[00:00:00] Ah! I see the path to victory so certain. I will take my place as the conqueror. The sorcerer. We have work to do.

[00:00:26] Sauron's victories are had a ring to rule them all. It's twice our number. Let the hunt begin.

[00:00:54] This is Crown Stabbers and Banner Wielders. Welcome to our podcast. I'm Anwen.

[00:01:36] And I'm Penny. And I'm Veronica. And this is the Cast of the Rings, episode 27. This episode, we are going to take a look back at where we left the characters and storylines at the end of season two and look forward to what we hope to see next. And we'd love to welcome Veronica, our new co-host for the season. And I remember you last appearing with us on season two, episode five. It's good to have you back.

[00:02:04] I'm so excited to be here. I've been getting geared up for season three and can't believe I have the honor of getting to talk about it with you two. So much fun. It's just every time this season comes around, it's like, why do we have to wait two whole years? And then you get to the two years and you go, how did that two years go so quickly? Yeah. Right? It's true.

[00:02:29] I mean, it helps that we had House of the Dragon in the middle there to obsess over, to give us a little touch of fantasy in our lives. Get us through the rough times. No, there's certainly no shortage of incredible TV out there. Before recording, we were just talking about how many shows there are and how often they seem to be coming out. Now that is really hard to keep up. But of course, now we're back here to the most important one of them all. The one show to rule them all, Rings of Power. It's so exciting.

[00:02:58] It really is. I can't wait. And this year they are bringing out these episodes fast and furious for us, which is really exciting for listeners, watchers, but it is really hard for podcasters because we're getting all eight episodes dropped within a two week period, basically. So they're dropping the first four all at once, a week later the next two, and then a week later the final two. So this is a really, really tight schedule for us.

[00:03:27] What we've decided to do this time, just so that everybody gets a chance to listen to our podcast pretty much as soon as possible after the episodes drop, is that we're going to record one podcast episode per two episodes of the show and get those out to you as soon as we possibly can. Of course, we still welcome all your feedback and just send that in whenever you can, whenever you watch anything, and we'll make sure that we pop it on the podcast.

[00:03:54] What's helpful for us with the podcast feedback, and we'll probably let you know this again later on. And our posts is that if you can say what episodes it's for, that's really helpful for us as well. Also, it'd be really great when you're sending in feedback if you would consider sending in a voicemail. It's super easy to do. When I do it, I use the voice memo app on my phone. Just open a voice memo, record what you're going to say. You'll probably screw it up the first time.

[00:04:21] Then you're going to start a new recording and record what you're going to say. And then there's a send option right in the voice memo app. And I just hit send, and then I send it to talk at podcastica.com or whoever I'm sending feedback into. And makes the sound and there it goes. So it's super easy to do. And those actually give us really good sound quality as well. I was going to say, just be careful, because that's also the gateway drug to becoming a podcaster yourself.

[00:04:50] That's how we all started. Just one harmless little voicemail got sent in, and then now look at us. It's great. I love it. I've met some of the coolest people doing this. Absolutely. Right. So shall we get into it? What we decided to do for our recap of season one and two and getting ready for season three is to take it in turns to go over all of our peoples, our characters, our civilizations, our story threads that we met in season one and two.

[00:05:21] And see where we kind of left them off and where we're going to be picking them up just in a few days. So Penny, would you like to get us started with one of the peoples who I know is your favorite, the dwarves? I do love some dwarves. So when I started typing up my notes, the word processing program told me that it should be dwarves, D-W-A-R-F-S. And I was like, I don't think that's right. So I went and I looked it up and I found a lot of different dictionaries.

[00:05:50] And of course, I went with the Oxford English Dictionary because that's Tolkien's baby. And it turns out that while many people have used both dwarves and dwarves, Tolkien specifically was a proponent of dwarves and popularized it in fictional literature. So this podcast is going to use dwarves in honor of Mr. Tolkien.

[00:06:12] When we picked up with our beloved dwarves at the beginning of season two, the effects of the explosion at Mount Doom in season one had spread to Khazad-Dum. And these caused an earthquake inside the mountain and that cut off their access to sunlight. And this was a huge crisis for the dwarves. It could have meant that if they couldn't get sunlight back, that they couldn't sustain their life inside the mountain.

[00:06:39] And this crisis gave Annatar the leverage he needed to get the dwarves to agree to provide Mithril in exchange for rings of power that they could use to save their people. Which King Durin agreed to, despite Prince Durin and Diza, who is definitely one of our favorite characters, to they just they were very suspicious about Annatar. Durin, Prince Durin read Annatar immediately as like sus.

[00:07:07] Yes. And so King Durin takes the ring and he uses it to find new access to sunlight. They dig these new shafts. The sun is back in Khazad-Dum. Everybody's happy. But then King Durin sort of gets gripped by greed and he starts directing his people to dig more and more. At one point, he gets really excited when he hears about the elves and the orcs going to war because he's like, wartime is good for people who sell metal. And Prince Durin is very concerned about this.

[00:07:36] And he and Diza eventually become like a resistance movement. King Durin takes his princely seal away and they are sort of trying to resist this new greedy regime under King Durin and the power of the ring. At some point, Elrond visits the mountain, desperate for help in the war between the orcs and the elves. And Prince Durin agrees to rally the dwarf troops to come to his aid. Elrond is very relieved.

[00:08:05] But as Durin is rallying the troops, he gets word that there's been some kind of horrible tragedy. And he comes to find out that all this digging has wakened a balrog that is living beneath the mountain. And a lot of people have been killed. I don't really know if we know who got killed in that scene, but like when Navi showed up to tell him about it, he was like bloody. And he was like, I don't even know if Diza's alive. Thank God she was.

[00:08:32] But when Prince Durin goes to find his father, who is by the side of this giant chasm that has a balrog at the bottom of it, they have this beautiful father and son moment. The king takes the ring off and then sacrifices himself to save his people from the balrog. Eventually, the dwarfs do join Elrond on the battlefield, but Prince Durin is absent because he is mourning his father.

[00:08:56] And at the final end of season three or season two, we catch back up with the dwarves and Durin and Diza are looking at the throne. And he's like, yeah, I guess it's time for me to become king. And then somebody comes in, one of the other dwarf lords comes in and is like, uh, your brother is contesting that you are the right person to become king. So political trouble is coming in the dwarf kingdom.

[00:09:20] Yeah, it felt like that final scene was just like fresh hell here, fresh hell here, like fire, fire. Every like problem that could pop up was popping up. Yeah, it was brutal. Yeah, they definitely left them in a state of turmoil, didn't they? It's, it's, everything they know has kind of changed dramatically far more at the end of season two than it was at the end of season one. And it really makes you look forward to seeing what's going to happen with the dwarves, especially since we all love them so much.

[00:09:50] They are delightful. I, I saw one, uh, preview picture that showed Diza and Durin and two young dwarves. And I'm so excited about it. The kids have been off screen for two seasons. We heard them, but we never got to see them. And now we're going to get to see them. I think from the photo, though, that they are now like, like young adult dwarves and not baby dwarves anymore. That'll be interesting.

[00:10:17] Yeah, it's, um, it's going to be really, really cool to see what they do with any kind of timeline changes. It's not really obvious from the trailer if there's a big skip, but, um, it'll be interesting to see where they kind of pick back up. There's something about that in the news later. So stay tuned. Yeah. Veronica, would you like to get us started with what's happened over in the East with the Harfoots and Gandalf? Yeah.

[00:10:42] So, you know, I was preparing for this and I don't think I was aware of how much hate the Harfoots got from the broader world of Watchers. I was really surprised and kind of glad I hadn't seen that till now. Um, but I enjoy them and I think they add such a needed lightness.

[00:11:03] I think even in season two, um, even though they kind of got themselves into some tough spots, they still just provided levity to the overall storyline that I feel like was really needed. Um, so what we had overall was Poppy and Nori going off to help who eventually was revealed as Gandalf.

[00:11:26] Um, and they end up in Rune and they discover what appears to be a whole new set of what were probably their also common ancestors. Um, in the, I've blanked on their names. The stores. The stores. Thank you. Here, I'm finding my notes. Okay.

[00:11:47] Um, and so they find the stores, they uncover this sort of common lineage that the ancestor who led to the nomadic lifestyle of the Harfoots actually used to sort of, I guess, be part of the stores community.

[00:12:05] And they get into all this trouble because the dark wizard and the runic nomads is that that's the only name I could find for sort of the magical wizards that were underneath the dark wizard is just that they were runic nomads. Is that correct? I've, I've also heard them called mystics, but I don't think any of that is official. Okay. I think that's, those are just fan names, both of them. Um, so we kind of have them going with Gandalf.

[00:12:35] They split ways a little bit as Poppy and Nori are getting to know the stores. And at the same time, Gandalf is off. Finally, I was going to say finding his staff, but it seems as though maybe that his staff was finding him. And also with the help of Tom Bombadil, which was very exciting. And all of that kind of pulled them back together because of the dark wizard and those runic nomads who were seeking Gandalf.

[00:13:03] They captured Nori and Poppy and were sort of like holding them hostage. I still really struggled with understanding the way all of this played out. And, and so I'll tell my interpretation of it and then let you to tell me if I've assumed things correctly. So the dark wizard was working with these runic nomads.

[00:13:28] They thought that at first that Gandalf was Sauron himself and that's why they were going after him. But by the end, the dark wizard acknowledged and seemed to understand who Gandalf was. And that Gandalf and he had actually been sent by Monwe, the king of the valor to combat Sauron.

[00:13:53] And that Gandalf is actually who convinced the dark wizard to come to Middle-earth. And the dark wizard is like, let me help you remember who you are. We will go cast down Sauron together and we'll take his place. And Gandalf sort of like, no, that's not really what I want. But during this conversation, this sort of aggressive argument about that.

[00:14:22] The runic nomads have the hobbits captured and that does cause the dark wizard to break also with them. So he's no longer working with the runic nomads. He's trying to convince Gandalf to join him, but not to defeat Sauron, to throw him down completely, but to take his place. That's sort of what I gathered. But is that correct?

[00:14:49] I was really struggling with trying to understand the relationship that the dark wizard had with these nomads. And it felt like half of the time they wanted to kill Gandalf because they thought he was Sauron. But then the dark wizard seemed to know who Gandalf was. So I was struggling with this whole storyline.

[00:15:14] Yeah, I mean, I'm a little bit familiar with the lore, but I also found it quite confusing. I think it wasn't that obvious what was happening. And for a bit there, I was like, hang on, oh, maybe the dark wizard is good. And then he kind of turns out not to be again. And it's really confusing. And I think that they're playing with the whole mystery box idea. And I think that most people who watch the show are in agreement. OK, you've established stuff now. We don't need any mysteries. The story is enough.

[00:15:44] The characters are well established. And the world is built in such a way that we don't need that. So I just really hope that they explain who he is a little bit more quite soon. And to be honest, I've seen a couple of little interviews with the showrunners. And they do mention blue wizards. They actually talk about blue wizards. So I think it's pretty clear that this isn't Saruman, as we've talked about potentially him being. And that it is going to be a blue wizard. But the whole you convinced me to come here is a little bit weird.

[00:16:13] Because that's also not in the lore. Gandalf was sent independently to Middle-earth. So they're just, again, I think they're trying to make a little bit of mystery where it doesn't need to be. I think it's set up enough. We spent two years waiting for them to reveal that Gandalf was Gandalf, as we all already thought he was. And I don't need another season of like, is this one Saruman? Like, I just, I'm all set with that.

[00:16:41] We can just move on to the rest of the story. I didn't pick up on the fact that there was a break between the dark wizard and his, and he has two different groups of minions. So I was thinking of the women in the white outfits when I said mystics. And then there's the like, troop of people that ride horses that have masks on. Yeah. I guess I was assuming they were all sort of one group.

[00:17:10] But I, yeah. Again, it feels like maybe too many layers of mystery. And I'm just confused a little bit. I think that at some point they revealed that the dark wizard did something to those people. And that's why they wear masks. Okay. But I don't think that we know much more than the fact that they are like beholden to him or whatever. And if they had a split, I didn't catch it. Yeah, that's confusing too. It's not in the law.

[00:17:37] They call them the Galdrum, those, those masked Easterling types. But they don't exist in the book. So again, they've sort of created them and they can do what they like with them. But it's really unclear. And are they going to tell us what happened? And it's one of those things where I kind of go, is it necessary? Like it's not really, doesn't seem that linked to the main story. And maybe they just had to have more drama.

[00:18:03] You know, like you've got the halfwits going off and meeting their kindred. And you've got, you know, the best parts of that are Gandalf and Tom Bombadil. But they needed maybe some more jeopardy. You know, they wanted some more drama there. So they chucked them in. I don't know. Yeah. Whatever. We'll see. So by the end, what we had was the dark wizard parted ways from them. The hobbits were okay.

[00:18:30] Gandalf sort of intervened in their complete destruction of the stores. It seemed as though Poppy and Nori are now going to go off with the stores on a new nomadic adventure. And part ways from Gandalf, who we leave sitting and singing with Tom Bombadil, which was just a delightful way to leave him.

[00:18:54] With him wanting to find out his purpose, which appears to be to stop Sauron. But to do it, you know, to find his way in doing that is sort of where I saw all of them ending up. I don't. I'm curious. I haven't seen whether we will get more Tom Bombadil. I don't really expect to. But I loved it so much seeing him on screen.

[00:19:23] And I wouldn't be upset if we at least get a little bit of him at the beginning of this season. And I think that was a true, like, high point of season two for me was Tom Bombadil finally showing up in the flesh. Yeah. And it would be nice to see what sort of brings him back, you know, to the west of Middle Earth. How he gets back to the old forest.

[00:19:50] That, you know, we don't see him placed there in the timeline for another few thousand years. But we kind of want to know how we know he's from there. He's already mentioned that. But it's, yeah, it's going to be it's going to be really good to see how they how they work that in. The one thing I found a little bit odd, too, at the end with the halfwits was that Nori didn't hug Gandalf goodbye. Like she'd seemed so close to him and had risked so much for him all throughout. And then at the end, she kind of just turns and lopes off. I thought I found that a little bit weird.

[00:20:20] Did you? I did. It was almost like anticlimactic. And I think that left me. Like, I've watched the final episode. I mean, I don't know, five or six times at least now. And I still found myself needing to go back and be like, well, now wait, what happened with the final ending of this storyline for the Harfoots? And I think it's because of that, because it felt a little unresolved. And we can take this out if it's too spoilery.

[00:20:50] But I did see a note from the showrunner that we do intend that there will be less Harfoots in season three. And so, again, I was sad. Apparently many viewers may not feel that same way about some departure from the Harfoots storyline. But so that makes me feel even more sort of unsatisfied with that goodbye and ending.

[00:21:18] The fact that this may be them tapering off from the role that they had previously. Yeah. And I hope that we do get at least some, because there were rumours going around for a while there that there would be no Harfoots in season three. And there's been very little in the, I don't remember seeing any in the trailer. Did you? I haven't been watching them too much because, again, I don't like to be spoiled. But yeah, it will be good to see, at least.

[00:21:47] I think, like you said, it's that relatable kind of, you know, we know that Hobbits equal Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings equals Hobbits. And that it's relatable for us to be able to see them as a people. And we kind of want them in there. But the main part of the story, the very dramatic, you know, ring-focused, Sauron-focused part of the story is going to be the one that reaches to the climax of the whole series.

[00:22:13] So I know that the Hobbits and the Harfoots will have a part to play, but potentially not as much as they did in the first two seasons. Yeah. It's been very, very fun to learn a little bit of, like, the history and sort of just imagine how, again, I'm not as familiar with the lore or exactly what in writings we have as to the settling of the Shire or things.

[00:22:40] But I do hope we get hints as to how the current group of Hobbits end up where they do when we come back to Middle-Earth and Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

[00:22:50] I got the sense at the end of season two that Nori and sort of Poppy, but Poppy was more focused on her new boyfriend, that Nori was planning to lead the stores back to the Harfoots and join the groups together and introduce stores to the concept of rivers and greenery. And Harfoots to the concept of you could make a house and live in one place.

[00:23:20] Right. You don't have to keep moving around. It seems like the perfect sort of path to get towards how they live in the Shire, right? It's very Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. Like, your chocolate is in my peanut butter cup. Yes. Anne, should we talk about Numenor? Yeah, let's go there. I'm sorry, wait. Numenor. Numenor. I love the way Morford Clark says it.

[00:23:50] Galadriel's tone is amazing there. Numenor. And as most listeners will be aware, this is definitely one of my favourites and is the civilisation that I was looking forward to the most when we first embarked on this journey with season one of Rings of Power. And it didn't disappoint from the beginning. I've really loved Numenor. And we saw them in season one kind of being established as this really proud and noble land and race of people. They're sort of superior humans.

[00:24:18] They've been descended from elf blood. And they have a longer than normal life. And in season one, the area or the region was being ruled over by Queen Regent Miriel. So her father was the king and he was, we later on found out that he was being held kind of in a tower and not being allowed to be king due to some of his beliefs.

[00:24:46] And then we saw this kind of a catastrophic tidal wave. And we start to see this unrest kind of unfold in Numenor. And that becomes obvious quite early on with the arrival of Galadriel and Halbrand. And this hostility towards the elves kind of starts to grow and we see these ripples of unrest. And then behind the scenes, we've got Faraz on, who is the chancellor, who does seem to have this massive amount of political power.

[00:25:16] Even sort of early on, he takes a bit of a backseat to start with. But he's always there kind of arching his eyebrows and twirling his moustache and looking like he's wanting to orchestrate a bit of a political kind of rise. And then when Miriel goes off to Middle Earth to fight against Adar and the orcs, she loses her sight in that massive volcanic explosion that we love to talk about.

[00:25:43] And her father passes away when they're en route back to Numenor. And so by the end of season two, we are in a completely different state again. So it's no longer stable at all. The island is really divided. The different leaders are fighting for control. And these values that they had once are being kind of pushed aside.

[00:26:07] And the kingdom hasn't really fallen, but it looks like it's heading towards this disaster that has been foreshadowed at the beginning. You know, you've got Miriel seeing this wave and whether that's a real wave or, you know, a metaphor, it really is showing that this kingdom is going to fall. And we know it is. This is not a spoiler. This is in the Lord of the Rings. We know that Numenor fell. And so we're kind of heading towards there.

[00:26:34] And Farazon kind of comes out as this dominant figure. And he basically, it's quite masterful. He uses the fear of the public, that the public has about others, about elves, about old ways and these magical ways that they used to uphold. He manoeuvres pretty, pretty skillfully. And he gets this growing support amongst the nobility. And he basically sidelines Miriel.

[00:27:03] They do this trial by sea and trying to get rid of her and says if the Valar believe that she's not righteous, then she'll be taken. She ends up getting spat back out by the sea monster. And for a moment there, it looked as though she was going to come back to power. But we see pretty quickly that she hasn't, that she's pretty much under house arrest.

[00:27:24] And Farazon takes control of the government with the balance of powers definitely like going towards him as a more authoritarian kind of way of ruling. And they round up the faithful. So the faithful are those of Numenoreans who remain loyal to the elves and those traditional values that Numenor used to have. And they get arrested and imprisoned by Farazon as he tries to kind of just get rid of all of his opposition.

[00:27:55] And that's quite a turning point, I think. It's not just, OK, there's unrest and there's different factions. It's like, right, you guys are wrong. We're going to chuck you in jail. So it's pretty, pretty scary. Mariel, I think everyone knows I adore her. She is amazing. She just, her whole bearing, she's noble. And she just, she stands up so straight. Every single scene, she's just, her morals are so strong and steadfast. And she's just, she's just absolutely incredible. I love watching her.

[00:28:25] She's incredible on screen. And in some ways, even more so since she became blind, because all of her movements are sort of just indicating this inner strength that she knows who she is and what she stands for and believes in. And I just love watching any scene that she's in. She's incredible. But she used the palantir, which is one of their seeing stones. And that, the kind of use of that became a symbol of her being an elf, an elf supporter or an elf lover.

[00:28:54] And that's something that Farazon used against her and sort of portrayed her as being unfit to lead. And, of course, Mariel's greatest supporter was Elendil. And Elendil was the sea captain. And, you know, it's going to go on to lots of other things, as we'll see.

[00:29:16] But he tried to convince Mariel at the end there to go off to the western part of Numenor to meet with his son and to try and escape what was happening in the main city. She refuses to go and decides to stay there. And then he ends up galloping off into the distance. And all of this violence is taking place in Numenor.

[00:29:39] One of the most intense and awful and sad scenes that I will always remember from season two was that conflict becoming really personal when Kermin kills Valendil. Kermin. Kermin. And I always remember you saying, Penny, Kermin is the worst. Yes. He has such a punchable face. He's just, as I say, that actor is amazing. I just think Leonid plays him just so incredible.

[00:30:09] And when you see him in interviews, one of those ones where you're like, he just seems like such a cool guy. And then he just is this incredible actor playing this awful villain. It's a talent. To make people hate you like that, it's a gift. Like, he's so good at what he does. It's so great, isn't it? And also, the other thing that I loved about Kermin was that it wasn't really foreshadowed at all. When your first few scenes, when you met him, you're like, oh, he's so sweet and he's lovely.

[00:30:38] And it's just all really nice. No, it's just, yeah, that moment was just horrible. And it kind of demonstrated that real division as well in Numenor. These aren't just kind of theoretical, ideological kind of disagreements. It's like, okay, now we're going to kill for power and we're going to show our loyalty, choose a side. And yeah, it is just horrendous.

[00:31:04] One of the other most important things that kind of happened right towards the end there, I think it might have been one of the final scenes with Farazan, was when he sees Sauron in the Palantir. And that kind of, I think, sets us up really well for the next couple of seasons where we're going to see, obviously, Farazan becoming a little bit more entangled again with Sauron.

[00:31:25] Their scenes, Halbrand and Farazan, that they had brief scenes together in season one is not the end of those two. That's all I'll say at the moment, but obviously there's going to be lots more corruption happening down the line. So I really loved that they teased that there with him looking into the Palantir and seeing Sauron, which is really cool. And yeah, so that's where we've left season Numenor at the end of season three. We've got this kingdom about to collapse.

[00:31:55] We've got this kind of horrible kind of threat or portent of Numenor being destroyed. And this power that's growing with Farazan and getting more and more and more powerful there and more and more awful things happening to the faithful. So can't wait to see what's in store for season three. I love Farazan as a character. I mean, obviously, I think he's a horrific person.

[00:32:22] And but on screen, first of all, he has a commanding presence. He has epic hair. Right. Right. He carries himself in this like you just know that there's a mwahaha in there, but he's too savvy to let it out in public. Like he's so all about soft power and maneuvering behind the scenes. I just find him really fascinating and fun to watch.

[00:32:47] I also think that as much as Kemen is a complete nightmare of a human, it's because Farazan is his father. He's a horrible dad. He's always like, son, your mother said something about you before she died. If you please me, I'll tell you what it is. Like what a jerk. Yeah, you can absolutely. We don't need an origin story for Kemen as a villain because you just have to take one look at his dad and know why he is the way he is.

[00:33:15] And yeah, it's horrendous. And really sad. Like there was that scene that you're talking about, Penny, when he says that his mother said something awful. And then the way Kemen's face changed in that scene and the myriad of emotions on his face going from wanting to please his father, but also being so heartbroken. And, you know, then it's heart hardening a little bit of like, okay, well, I know who I have to be. Yeah, it's just incredible range. It's really amazing.

[00:33:45] I wish I could visit Numenor before it falls because the look and vibe of that city is so beautiful. Yeah. You want to visit beginning of season one Numenor, not end of season two Numenor. Yeah, exactly. Maybe meet up with Elendil or Valendil at that pub. Be very happy. Yeah, that was a good stage. This is your reminder that Elendil has been dubbed by the internet Elendilf.

[00:34:14] Yeah, that's it. We need a little bit more Lloyd Owen as we go into the next season. We've got Elendilf and we've got Gilgadady as well. All these hot, older Middle Earth men. Gilgadady is so good. Yeah. It's addictive to say it. It rolls off the tongue in a way that's really fun. That's beautiful. Great. Well, I think that covers Numenor.

[00:34:41] Penny, would you like to take us over to Pelagia to see what the humans and the wild men over there are doing? So after the explosion of Mount Doom, which was after the battle with Adar's army at the end of season one, the people who managed to survive miraculously the pyroclastic cloud of the volcano, simply walk out of what will become Mordor.

[00:35:04] And are led by the Numenoreans to an abandoned settlement that's on the coast called Pelargir, which is where I guess Numenor used to have a colony there, but now it's just empty. So all these straggling survivors and what they call wild men, there's like sort of just generally the Southlanders are living in Pelargir trying to make a go of it.

[00:35:26] And when we meet back up with them, it's because Bronwyn has died and Arendir is moping about in the woods looking for, I think, wood for her funeral pyre. And meanwhile, Isildur has been captured by orcs. Elendil thinks he's dead, but he's alive. And his awesome, awesome horse, Beric, helps him escape from the orcs.

[00:35:52] And he is making his way towards the coast because I think he's, you know, he wants to go home. And he meets up with a thoroughly uninteresting woman and has a flirtation with her. And they also meet up with Arendir, who saves them. And they all go back to Pelargir. They meet up with Theo, who has sort of become like kind of a leader of the Southlanders because Bronwyn was so much of a leader to them. And since he's her son, they're sort of looking to him.

[00:36:22] And they have Bronwyn's funeral and Isildur and Theo bond. And I remember when we covered it, we were like, this is good. This is good for the two of them. Theo needs an older brother figure. This is great. And they decide to rescue Beric, who has been captured by some like roaming, possibly Sauron affiliated humans. And in the course of that rescue, there's like a massacre. It's all very mysterious and off screen.

[00:36:50] But we later find out that it's the Ents. And I love the Ents. I got so excited about the Ents. It was thrilling. And the Ents that we got were played by the voices of Olivia Colman and Jim Broadbent. So it was like a huge fangirl moment for me. Very excited. But the Ents were upset about all these like roaming humans cutting down their beloved trees. So they had like captured them at a tree prison.

[00:37:16] And Erendir, in the course of trying to rescue Theo and I guess Isildur, he makes a very heartfelt and solemn vow to the Ents that he's not going to let anyone else cut down their trees. And the Ents decide, okay, I'll let the humans go. And Theo has promised these humans like I'll find you a home at Pelarkia or we can all go there together. Then Erendir immediately nopes out of there to follow the Orc army. So I don't know how he's going to keep his promise to the Ents.

[00:37:45] And then Isildur and Theo and these other people go back to Pelargyr. And in this intervening time, who should have arrived in Pelargyr? But Kemyn. Kemyn. And Kemyn, first of all, is like, Isildur, you're alive. And then we get to see his face go from like, oh, I don't like you though, to, oh, your sister's going to be so happy. And then the two of them have a do you know who my dad is off about like just being snotty rich boys.

[00:38:14] It's really kind of hilarious. And then Isildur gets on a boat back to Numenor. And Kemyn doesn't let him take his girlfriend with him, who then stands there after she tried to leave with another guy. Her fiance like holds her hand. It was a very confusing scene. And Kemyn makes it clear to everybody in Pelargyr, he is in charge now. When someone tries to introduce him to Theo and they're like, this is Theo, son of Bronwyn. He's like, whatever.

[00:38:42] And then he's like, I want you all to go cut down a whole bunch of trees. So I don't think that's going to go well for them. We've seen what Ents can do. And that's basically Pelargyr. Erendir goes off to follow the Orc army and eventually meets up with the elves. And I know Veronica is going to talk to us about elves. Yeah, the Pelargyr stuff. I really liked some of it. But again, some of it I did find confusing as well. Yeah.

[00:39:12] That whole thing with, and her name's completely gone out of my head now. I think it's Estrid. Estrid. The whole thing with Isilda and Estrid. I kind of felt like if it had been that she did choose to go with him, I would have bought their connection a little bit more. And her feelings. And that I would have bought her redemption arc a little bit more because she kind of turned on them but then had the redemption arc. But now she slipped back again.

[00:39:42] And I just, I do find that really confusing. It doesn't make me enamored of her as a character. But it does seem like they're potentially setting her up to become his future wife. I don't know. They might go there. But if they're not, what's the point? Yeah. Like, who is she? What's she for? She was just, I don't know. She just was not interesting enough to take up as much screen time as she took. Yeah. Yeah. So it's an oddly written character, I think. Again, like all of this show, the acting was really good.

[00:40:11] But it didn't seem like she had as much to work with as we would have wanted for the kind of level of character development that we usually see in this show. Yeah. Well, that segues quite nicely into the elves. We've got Arendia heading off from Palagia over to meet up with the rest of his elf buddies. Do you want to take us there, Veronica? Yeah. So, I mean, the elves are my favorite. I don't know. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

[00:40:40] They've obviously been the huge central sort of race throughout this series so far. And so, I mean, I guess the highlights of the big things that went very wrong for the elves this season. We left them at the end of season one and they had the three elven rings.

[00:41:01] And in season two, you know, Galadriel knows who helped them create the rings and has warned everyone away from working with him anymore. But I think she took.

[00:41:15] I just think there were some missteps in them not being transparent that led to Sauron being able to weasel his way back in and convince Celebrimbor to fall under his spell and create the rings for the dwarves and then rings for men.

[00:41:35] And so we see where that gets Celebrimbor and all the elves by the end of season two, which is the creation of these really powerful rings that different from the rings that were created in season one.

[00:41:49] And while the rings that elves are carrying have influence in their making of Sauron, the rings that were made in season two have a much heavier, darker influence from Sauron. And so, you know, we saw, as Penny talked about some of the impacts that already had on the dwarves in uncovering the Balrog.

[00:42:16] And we see that what went into the rings created for men are even darker. I mean, that had Sauron's blood actually, you know, substituted in.

[00:42:29] And he tricked Celebrimbor into thinking that it was Mithril and it was his dark black blood or life substance that is actually put into those nine rings that Celebrimbor is finishing up as Eregion is being absolutely destroyed by the orc army.

[00:42:53] And so as Eregion is being destroyed, the elves are out, you know, Elrond arrives and tries to fight all of the orc army back. Galadriel arrives and is secreted the rings from Celebrimbor and she carries them out of Eregion as the battle rages on. And Celebrimbor is tortured to death.

[00:43:20] And I think still, despite all the missteps he took, I think he has a nice redemption arc through martyrdom. It was terrible to watch him be tortured to death, but he stayed strong and at least gave, I think, a head start for Galadriel to get out of there.

[00:43:41] But she is stopped along the way by Adar, by then by Sauron himself. And I think the only piece that I could not remember as I was prepping for the show and didn't have a chance to go back and confirm to myself is where the nine rings landed. So Galadriel has them.

[00:44:08] And she escapes from an interaction with Sauron. But who has the rings of men? I think he does. He does, right? Okay, okay. I just wanted to make sure before I... Yeah. Yeah. And he tried to get her ring off her, but that's the one she wouldn't get. Yeah. So she escapes him as the rest of the elves flee from Eregion.

[00:44:38] And they all end up back together in a protected valley where Galadriel has floated down the river to them. And she meets back up with Elendil. Erendir has survived multiple near-death experiences in the battle outside of Eregion, but is still standing and is there with them.

[00:45:08] Gil-Galad is also there. And a gathering of elves that somehow... I mean, I think watching the battle scenes, I thought, do we just have Elrond and Gil-Galad and that's all that has survived? But luckily, no. We do still have a gathering of elves.

[00:45:26] I don't know that the show fully confirmed this, but I'm assuming that this valley they found themselves in is possibly maybe what will eventually become Rivendell. I see some shaking of heads from my expert fellow co-hosts. Yeah. I think so, too. Okay. Definitely, yeah. So they have the rings.

[00:45:50] They've gone back and forth as a race about whether they should be using the elven rings. And I think we do land sort of squarely at the end that they've decided if they're going to stay and fight, they kind of have to use them. They came in quite handy throughout season two.

[00:46:10] And I think even Elrond, who seemed to be the largest voice against using the rings, has come around to begrudgingly recognizing that they're kind of in this situation and they're going to have to use them. So we saw them suffer some really big blows overall, but they're still standing.

[00:46:35] Our main, you know, three heroes amongst the elves, well, four, Erendir as well, are sort of together and gathered in a safe place and sort of ready to resist. I don't know. What else, you guys? Those were sort of my big highlights of where the elves landed. But what else am I not mentioning that you felt was important? I think that covers it nicely. I agree with that part about Elrond.

[00:47:02] And one of my favorite moments, I think, in season two was at the end then where he agrees to kind of use the ring to help heal Galadriel. And there's a really interesting filming choice where he's actually looking straight down the camera lens. And I feel like it's a little bit of a nod. It's almost like he's looking at the audience saying, I know I was against this, but now I'm for it and I'm owning up to it kind of thing. It was really intense and really well done, I thought.

[00:47:30] And acting again, absolutely incredible from Robert Aramea. He's just awesome. Love Elrond. Can't wait to see where he goes again next. He was sort of a bit more heavily featured in season one and a little bit less in season two. But obviously he's got big things coming too. So that's really exciting. Yeah. Yeah. I would just like to highlight that we got some absolutely fantastic battle scenes that heavily involved the elves and, of course, the orcs.

[00:47:57] And it was a lot of fun to see Galadriel's fighting style when she was fighting a whole bunch of orcs by herself was amazing. We got two other female elves this season. We got the archer one, whose name I can't remember, and sadly she doesn't make it. And Myrdania, who was sort of an audience insert kind of a character because you could really identify with her.

[00:48:22] She seemed more of like a sort of normal person than Galadriel or Elrond, who are these mythic iconic figures. Myrdania, for me at least, was more grounded. But it's probably because she's got a job. Yeah. Yeah. I think also like she seemed like to me like the student in a class who sits near the front and always is raising their hand to like eagerly answer the question.

[00:48:51] Like she was, like you said, I think equally impressed by the elves that we're all, you know, that we've seen on scene that are like classic quote unquote heroes. And so I think from that regard, like I would have been at the front of the class raising my hand to learn from Celebrimbor too, right? So yeah. And from Annatar, when he comes along too, she just wants to. Oh, she had a thing for Annatar.

[00:49:16] But it was also, I think, a really good example of the reason why the elves and all of Middle Earth were able to be corrupted by Sauron was because they had this kind of innocence that they had this sort of everything's been pretty OK in the world for a few thousand years now since the troubles of the first stage. And then it was easy for him to come in and kind of manipulate and corrupt that. She was a really good symbol of that, I found. Yeah.

[00:49:45] There was a moment I really loved, a small moment in the battle scenes where Arondir responds to a question and then he realizes he's talking to King Gil-galad. And he's like, uh, uh, I'm talking to the king. Like he just has this moment. And he had a similar moment in season one when he's like, that's Galadriel, the orc killer. And he has like the same kind of like, I'm just a lowly elf soldier. I shouldn't be. But here he is now.

[00:50:15] And because of, you know, what he has done and where he is at the end of the season standing on that cliff, he's an elf leader now. Like he's, he has ascended to a new station among the elves. It's great, isn't it?

[00:50:30] And we've talked a lot through season one and season two about how awesome Arondir is and how we loved that fact that he was really grounded both in his kind of status as a, as a, as a lowly kind of elf soldier, but also physically grounded. His fighting style, you know, really low to the ground, really different to Legolas. We saw all of those kind of light, light-footed acrobatics.

[00:50:54] And that fighting style that he has was so great in the scenes, you know, in front of Reguion there, where it was literally down in the mud. This is a very grounded battle scene. It was gritty and, and really, really kind of dirty. And it was great to see him fight in the, in those scenes, especially bringing down the troll. That was really, really cool. And Gil-Galad's fight scenes as well with his incredible spear that he has.

[00:51:22] He was a really unusual and different kind of style that we haven't seen before, which was really great to see on screen. And that was something that I was really thrilled to see as well when he finally got to, to take off his, his nice little silky robes and his, his crown, his golden crown. And then actually get into his shiny armor and get out there and down and dirty on the field. It was great. Loved it.

[00:51:42] You know, I think Aaron Deer is the only elf that doesn't have that, like a bit of that haughtier, better than thou demeanor.

[00:51:54] I think some of it has obviously been driven by his love for a mortal woman and his connection to seeing men as more than just the failed weak race that I think many of the other elves sort of look at them as. And it's, it just makes him a, all around like impossible not to love character.

[00:52:21] And then add that he's also this amazing warrior and he's just, yeah, love him. I'm glad he's still standing. Like I said, I really thought at least twice in the battle that, okay, well, he's gone. That's it for him. And then, nope, he's still standing. So. Yeah. I re-listened as I think Anwen did as well to our coverage from season two and the, I think it's episode seven. He gets stabbed in the side and then you don't see him again until episode eight.

[00:52:50] And our episode seven coverage is full of feedback from people being like, if they killed Aaron Deer, I can't believe, like people were distraught. And we were like, we're pretty sure he's alive. He, they don't kill him off screen. Come on. And he was, and yay. And everybody rejoiced because we love him. I think he's just such a beloved character. And I think that the showrunners are really aware of him being a fan favorite.

[00:53:15] And part of the kind of symbolism that we had throughout of the awful reactions that, you know, we got in season one to any people of color being in Middle Earth. And he was a really good symbol of, of what it meant and how important it was when, when the actor himself actually spoke a lot about how he loved Lord of the Rings as a, as a young kid and how it was really important to him.

[00:53:41] And he never thought that he would ever get to be an elf because you don't get black elves. And he spoke at length about that and about how much it has meant to him to come into that role and to be part of that world and how important it is. And that's backed up by the showrunners and everybody involved with the show. And I think that's great. And I don't think they're going to let him go anywhere quick. I hope we get him for the full five seasons. That's for sure. Because we absolutely adore him. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:09] Well, from, from the absolutely beautiful to the absolutely terrible, we're going to switch over to Sauron now. And, you know, we're going to finish off here with the, with the big bad. So in season one, we meet him as Halbrand. We first see him on that raft. He's this man with a, with a troubled past, but we don't know much about him.

[00:54:31] He meets Galadriel and they form this kind of uneasy partnership and then are taken onto the, the ship there by Alendale and taken back to Numenor. And when he's in Numenor, Halbrand tries to kind of act like this humble craftsman. The world keeps kind of nudging him towards larger things. And we see that from the very beginning is sort of looking at the, at the forge. And we kind of went, Ooh, what's going on here? Galadriel believes that he's the lost king of the Southlands.

[00:55:02] And he kind of resists, but he, he lets her push him towards Middle Earth and the battle. But is he really pushing her or is, is, is it really something that he wants to do? Obviously, Sauron's usually several steps ahead of everybody else. And their, their alliance, I guess, is quite complicated. You know, she, she sort of sees what she wants to see, I think in that stage. But he also sees someone who is quite fierce, quite strong.

[00:55:31] He's quite attracted to her, her power and her tenacity and, and realizes that she's going to be able to open a few doors for him that he might not be able to on his own. So off they go to the Southlands. He's hailed as king, but he gets injured in that eruption of Mount Doom once again. He doesn't get the pyroclastic cloud, but he gets a nasty wound in his side for which he needs elvish medicine. And he's taken off to, to Eregion and Calabrimbor is there.

[00:56:00] And we've already heard a little bit about that. But of course, once they're there, Galadriel begins to uncover the truth about, about him. She finds out from, from the, remember the, the librarian guy looks like a bit of a Vulcan. Oh yeah, I forgot about him. So she finds out that the Southlands royal line died out long ago and, and that he's not who he said he was. She confronts him and he reveals himself as Sauron and offers her a place beside him.

[00:56:30] He says that he's after order. He wants to heal Middle Earth and wants to, to share the rule with her. But of course, also be the boss of her. And of course she refuses. That scene at the end of that season there was pretty awesome. I loved that whole scene where they kind of flip and they're back on the raft. And yeah, I just thought it was really brilliant, really well done. It's something that stands out to me from both seasons. At the end of season one, Sauron walks into Moror.

[00:56:57] He's stepping into those shadows and we start to see that real darkness begin to emerge. And I remember thinking at the end of season one, you know, we knew that he was, you know, from the law, that he was going to come back as Annatar. And how was he going to get there? And we had two years to wait and wonder how that was going to happen. And of course he ends up heading back there pretty skillfully. Skillfully. So he, he transforms him back in, himself back into kind of Hellbrand form, I guess.

[00:57:26] And he goes into Moror. He pretty much tricks Adar into attacking Eregion by saying that Sauron is there and he should go after him. And in Eregion, he transforms himself again. He becomes Annatar and deceives Calibur and Bor into, into forging the seven and the nine rings. And that awful, awful torture scene.

[00:57:48] And it's not just that last little bit of physical torture, but, you know, obviously you've got that, just that, that terrible, terrible coercive control, manipulation, gaslighting, all of that narcissistic stuff that he does to Calibur and Bor was so skillfully done. Skillfully written, skillfully acted. Just a beautiful example of that kind of, of behaviour and manipulation of a person, which was just incredible.

[00:58:16] And then at the end, you've got the, the orcs coming in, end up killing Adar. Adar's come back to forge a bit of an alliance with Galadriel, but they turn on him, but based again on Sauron's manipulation of them. And then they swear loyalty to Sauron. It really was amazing to see that progression, I think, or that development of the orcs.

[00:58:40] And we talked about this quite a lot in our coverage of season one and two, about how from the beginning and all of the iterations that we've seen of the Lord of the Rings kind of universe, the orcs are just this faceless swarm of kind of nasty, gritty creatures. These villains, they're kind of foot soldiers. They're just bad and evil when they come and get you. That's pretty much it. But we, we see a really good development in this series of the orcs as, as a people. And they're kind of, they start out, there's these kind of hidden raiders.

[00:59:09] They're, yeah, they're scary and gritty and they're kind of tunneling under the, under the houses of the Southlands and, and trying to build these tunnels. But you see them kind of becoming a bit more of a complex society, you know, under Arar. And Arar leads them to create Mordor as this homeland where they can live free from sunlight. They actually don't want to annoy anybody else. Obviously, they have to probably kill and kidnap and enslave a few villages along the way. But apart from that, they just want to live there and have their own homeland. Arar calls them his children.

[00:59:40] And they're really devoted to him at the beginning. And we see even more of that in season two. You see a bit more about the orc origins, their culture, and even their family life. We get the mummy and daddy orc and the baby orc, which was something that was surprising, I think, to a lot of us. But that was a really good way to also demonstrate that perhaps the orcs want something else, not just domination and battle and war. They do really want a home.

[01:00:08] And they've given us a reason now to show that they do have families. And Arar gets more and more obsessed with destroying Sauron. The orcs kind of get a bit disillusioned and they want peace in Mordor instead of this endless war. And that was sort of personified by the elf glug, who was the daddy elf that was the second in command, that had this wife or partner and baby orc child.

[01:00:35] But by the end, they had completely manipulated into betraying and killing Arar by Sauron. And by the end, they've fallen under his control. And they, I guess, realise a little bit too late that they thought they had a protector, but instead they've got this absolute tyrant for a boss. And that's going to be their path, I guess, going forward for the next few thousand years, which is really, really sad.

[01:01:02] And then where we leave Sauron, of course, at the end, once he's got his orc armies, he confronts Galadriel. We have the whole scene on top of the mountain there, where he does end up getting the nine rings and he fails to seize the elven rings off Galadriel. But he does get Calabrimbor's hammer. So that was the hammer that Calabrimbor had inherited from Phaenor, the hammer that had made the Silmarils.

[01:01:30] And he goes off again towards Mordor with that hammer. And I guess we know what's going to happen with that this season. Yeah. Anything else on Sauron that I've missed there? I can't think of anything. Me neither. It was a really fun finale with him in that big battle or final fight with Galadriel.

[01:01:55] He turns himself into Halbrand and then into Calabrimbor and then into Galadriel. So she's at one point fighting herself. It was a lot of fun. It was really well done, wasn't it? Yeah. And again, the acting, you know, it's one of the biggest contrast is when you see Charlie Vickers being interviewed. And he's just this Aussie bloke. And he's really happy and sunshiny and really into it and excited by it all.

[01:02:22] And then he can be both kind of downplayed Halbrand, but also absolutely evil, narcissistic Sauron. Incredible acting. So amazing. I love the story about when he auditioned for the role. They didn't tell him it was Sauron. Sauron. But some of the materials that they gave him to audition with were a speech from King Lear and a speech by Satan from Dante's Inferno.

[01:02:49] And he's like, that clued me in a little bit. You think? We just want to see what you do with it. Just, you know, play around in the Satan world. And he's like, okay, I think I know where you're going. That's brilliant, isn't it? And obviously because they hadn't announced any casting whatsoever for anything close to resembling Sauron, you can see that they had something up their sleeve, which is really cool. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:03:17] It's so fun to rewatch the show knowing that he's Sauron. In season one, there are so many hints, but also red herrings along the way as he's, you know, presenting himself as Halbrand. It's just, it's delightful to watch it. I just rewatched it with my wife who was watching for the first time, who has only just now crossed over the bridge into like delving deep into this universe.

[01:03:43] So we have binged every available Lord of the Rings, like movie or series. And it was very fun to go through the first season. And she would constantly be asking me, who is he? Who's he going to be? And I was like, you just have to wait. But it was nice to like put myself back in that mindset of sort of paying attention to those things that you were saying, Penny. And yeah, I think it was really, really well done.

[01:04:12] And just so fun introducing our loved ones to the world, isn't it? I had the same feeling when I was rewatching season one with my kids. And when it got to the scene where Sauron is revealed, I wasn't watching the screen. I was watching them. I just had to see their reactions. So fun. It's been really fun. It's the closest you can get to being able to watch it again for the first time yourself, you know? Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's where we're sitting now.

[01:04:41] And I guess it'd be good to have a little chat about what we're expecting or hoping for season three. For me, I am really excited to see it get even darker and more intense, which we know it's going to. I absolutely can't wait for probably three or so specific moments. Of course, the forging of the One Ring is going to be incredible to see. I can't wait to meet Caliborn, Galadriel's husband. We know he's coming along.

[01:05:11] And that gets us to see the softer side of Galadriel, which we've seen a little of. So that's going to be really fun. And my other big moment is Elendil and Isildur reuniting. That's going to be fantastic. And it should be this season. He's on his way back to Numenor and he might get to the main city and realise his dad's not there. But he'd better scaper as quick as he can off to the west to meet up. And then hopefully we get to meet Anarion as well. That'd be cool. The other brother. Oh, yeah.

[01:05:40] And finally, I just want as many scenes with Arondia as we can get. That's my hope and my wish and my dream. Yeah. I would say all of those things as well. Sauron no longer pretending not to be Sauron is going to be kind of fun. You know, no mask. He is Sauron. He's not going to be like pretending to be Anatar. I'm sure he will still be abusing people. I'm hoping for more Cirdan. We only got a little bit of Cirdan in season two.

[01:06:09] I just want to see more of him. Dwarves, dwarves, dwarves, dwarves. I want more dwarves. I want all the dwarves. I want more women dwarves. I'm excited about the kids. I want more female characters who have names and lines and don't wear veils over their faces. I want more of Arondia and not just him on screen. I want more of the like elf battle stuff where he like flips and spins and twirls through the air and jumps and lands on things that are impossibly narrow to balance on. All that stuff.

[01:06:39] Love that stuff. Can't get enough of it. And if we do check back in with the Harfoots and the stores, I want Poppy and no one to be married. I love them. So cute. They're really adorable together. Oh, and ants. We have to have ants. More ants. Always. I already mentioned that I hope we at least get a little bit of Tom Bombadil. Yeah.

[01:07:07] I think what I'm most excited and like, I don't know what will happen in season three versus throughout the next three seasons, but the continued character development of these iterations of Gandalf and Galadriel and Elrond changing to become more like themselves.

[01:07:28] So Gandalf is going to find himself, but Galadriel has obviously been a much more spirited version of Galadriel than who we know she becomes. Eventually, you know, the Galadriel we see as in Lord of the Rings.

[01:07:47] And I think I'm curious how much of it is that the ring changes her versus going through the events that she's going to continue to go through this season. And so I'm just really excited to see what they do with her character. And if we actually see that evolution begin during the series or if that's something we're supposed to assume happens in the in-between.

[01:08:17] But yeah, I know that's maybe kind of like boring, but I just love the character arcs and yeah, seeing how someone gets from where they are to a new iteration of themselves. And so I think that's where I feel most excited. Yeah, and I think we're going to see that and we're going to I feel every confidence in the showrunners to be portraying that.

[01:08:43] I think that first season was really finding their feet and so much, you know, weighed down by the burden of having to do all the world building. The second season, really, they came into their stride with the writing of the characters and the development of the characters. And I feel like that those first two seasons under their belt now, this is where it really hits. This is the middle season. This is where we're going to start seeing the massive ramp up to even more action.

[01:09:09] And the, you know, the work has been done by the writers and by the actors to get these characters so well established that the ease with which they're going to step into the next development of their characters is just going to be so much better to see. And it's probably so much easier for them and more fun for them as well, getting to go to delve back into it. I always think that about the actors. It must be quite weird.

[01:09:35] They're so ensconced in this world for, you know, six or eight months of a shoot. And then they do nothing at all for a year. And then they do this really intensive kind of press tour, getting ready for the next one. And then they start shooting the next one. Yeah, it's quite, it must be quite a roller coaster. And they have this time off in between where they do other projects. But it must be really cool for them to reunite and get back into it and reunite with their fellow actors, but also with their own characters and slip back into it, which is really, really fun.

[01:10:02] And two years, I mean, for Theo, who started as, you know, a young man, I think that's going to be another fun character because not only is his storyline evolving, but he just as a human in these, you know, interims of time marching forward, he's getting older. And so I'm curious to see if we have more of a young man, Theo, this season than we did previously.

[01:10:32] I mean, we're going to have to. The actor grew like five inches in the first season. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he was, I think he was not quite 16 when they first filmed the first season. And yeah, and he's 20 now. So it's kind of, yeah, as we move forward, he's going to be 24 by the time we get to the end, if he lasts to the end. I really hope that he does. And I'm looking forward to seeing where the development of his character goes.

[01:11:00] And we have talked about that a little bit in some of our spoiler sections. So head on back and listen to our back episodes if you want to see what we think about that. I hope that we do get to keep a lot of the wonderful characters that we've got. Looking back, Penny, you've compiled a list for us of all of the characters that we lost in the first two seasons. And I hadn't realized it was so extensive and it's made me a little bit sad. But shall we take a little stroll through our memoriam section and see who's no longer with us from the Rings of Power?

[01:11:29] Yes, let's. And I have selected some music for this occasion. So first we have Finrod, Galadriel's beloved older brother, who died at the very beginning of season one in the battles with Morgoth. I believe at Sauron's hands personally, but I'm not positive about that. Looks like it from the show. In real life, it was Sauron's werewolves who he set on him that got him.

[01:12:00] Oh, that's right. Next, we have one that broke my heart. Bronwyn. Beautiful, strong woman, mother to Theo, love interest of Erendir. And she was taken down by orc poison. And off screen, we know that the actor actually left to pursue activism. I don't remember the details of that.

[01:12:28] What she was off to do. She is Iranian or Iran, depending on who you ask. And specifically, she wanted to advocate for the rights of Iranian women. Makes sense. So a strong woman on and off screen. Exactly. And next, we've got Sadoch Burrows, the leader of the Halfwits. And he was killed by those nasty mystics who were looking for Sauron.

[01:12:58] Played by Lenny Henry. Absolutely awesome character. He was really fun and quite captivating to watch on screen. So we'll miss Sadoch. It was actually a really sad, very sad ending for him. We have Muriel's father, the king, Tar Palantir, who died, I guess, of illness or old age. No explanation for why his name is Tar Palantir and he uses a Palantir. Like, why is Palantir a name? But anyway.

[01:13:28] Very sad for Muriel. We didn't really know him very well. Yeah. But he did seem to be, you know, a friend to elves and probably could have been a good king had he had people who were open to that path. Yeah, that's it. The name Palantir means farsighted or he who looks afar. So it's similar to the function of an actual Palantir.

[01:13:54] And I think it kind of indicates his overall way that he looked at the world and was an ally to the elves. Feels a little bit like my dentist name is Crentist moment. I don't know if you're Office fans.

[01:14:16] Next, we have Antimo, who this is the one of the trio of friends of Isildur, Antimo and Valendil, correct? Yes. And if I'm remembering correctly, does he not basically signal that he's about to die by saying, I think I'm going to go home, you know, to Numenor.

[01:14:42] And shortly after that statement is killed in the eruption of Mount Doom. Yeah, he's also the only one that has a sweetheart to go home to. That's just the kiss of death. That was the foreshadowing for us, wasn't it? When he says goodbye to her in the pub on Numenor and we're like, oh no, it's not going to go well. He was such a sweetheart too. Oh, that was sad.

[01:15:09] One that I think most people aren't sad about is Waldrigg. That horrible kind of innkeeper, butcher guy who we see at the start who ended up trying to be a minion of Adar and then offered to be a minion of Sauron. He was just delightfully awful to watch, fantastically acted, just revolting.

[01:15:34] And he was killed by a wag at the end under Hal Brand's control, which was one of those very satisfying, a little bit reminiscent of Ramsay Bolton. And for those Game of Thrones fans and quite nice to see. Yay. Next up is Glug, who was sort of one of the leaders of the Orc army and one of the instigators of the mutiny against Adar.

[01:16:01] And he is killed by Sauron. And it's not completely clear to me if Sauron killed him because he's like, you can't trust a traitor, even if you were a traitor for me. Or if he's just so annoyed about how he didn't get what he wanted from Glugreal that he just killed the next available Orc. Or both. But who is the one with the baby? Yeah. Almost more tragic. I feel like it's the second one.

[01:16:27] And that makes it more tragic because it didn't mean anything to Sauron. It wasn't vindictive or vengeful particularly. I think he was just like, you're annoying me. I'm just going to stand there. Yeah. Which is really sad because he was a fairly developed character as far as the Orcs go. It was a very quick way to show that the distinction between how Sauron sees the Orcs and how Adar had seen them.

[01:16:54] Because he very quickly dehumanizes them back to, these are just soldiers, right? Yeah. Expendable. So, next, Valendil, which we talked a little bit about in our talking about where Numenoreans were left off. But so this is Isildur's other friend who was just such a strong, brave, kind young man.

[01:17:20] So, of course, he was not long for this world and was despicably killed by Kemen after he dropped. He could have killed Kemen in that moment. And he listened to Elendil and dropped his weapon and stepped back. And Kemen, the little crap that he is, took his chance and put him down. That one hit me the hardest, I think. Yeah. It was so shocking as well.

[01:17:49] You only saw it coming for the last, you know, the couple of seconds before when he had his back turned. And then when it actually happened, it was one of those hand over your mouth, I can't believe that just happened moments for me. And shout out to our New Zealand boy, Alex Tarrant, who played him, did such an incredible job. And it was really sad to see him go. But what an incredible, what an incredible death scene for him.

[01:18:14] And the next one we have is another big one, King Duren. Absolutely incredible character. Captivating again every single scene that he was in. And played by Peter Mullen. He's a very well-esteemed Scottish actor and very cool for him to be able to keep his actual accent in that role. Everything that he did was amazing.

[01:18:40] We've talked about it before as well with him, where he was just such a quiet actor in a lot of scenes. Just he was, the character himself and also the way it was portrayed by the actor, just really still and really focused in his listening to other characters and what was happening. And of course, King Duren taken out in the end by the Balrog in that final fiery scene.

[01:19:09] And it was pretty spectacular. Sacrificing himself to pass on the kingship to his son. And yeah, we'll definitely miss King Duren on our screens. It occurs to me that the stillness that you were talking about was very much like he was becoming the same as the mountain. Yeah. I love that. He's stony.

[01:19:35] He was very much what I would have pictured as an old dwarf king. You know, that stoicism. Also, I think I just want to mention the epic Mario jump he did off there at the end to go fight the Balrog. Because that was just, I don't know, what a way for his character to exit the world. So cool. Really, really cool.

[01:20:01] I also liked how that tied things up a little bit for us because everyone was going, what's the story? The Balrog's not supposed to show up yet. But the fact that when he attacked the Balrog and the Balrog's whip came up, it looks like it's sort of sealed up the tunnel again. So that's quite nice. If they don't bring the Balrog back again for the whole rest of the series, that's fine. We've seen it. We know it comes back later and it's pretty well done. I like that. Yeah. Next up we have Myrdania, who we've talked about a little bit.

[01:20:28] And she was killed by being pushed off of the battlements into where the battle was happening and an orc killed her. And tragically, Anatar was the one who pushed her, but he made it look like Celebrimbor did it. So her final moments of life were the sensation that her mentor had murdered her, basically. It was a horrible, tragic death and very gritty and in the mud and upsetting.

[01:20:57] I think the saddest part about it was that she would have died thinking that Celebrimbor had done that, this mentor of hers. And she would not have died knowing that Sauron was evil. She just, yeah, it's really sad. Next, we have Adar, death by his own beloved orc.

[01:21:23] I don't even want to call them army because I think they were much more to that than him. But I think he took some big missteps in this last season in his obsession to go after Sauron. And I think it led to the orcs feeling some betrayal and thinking the grass would be greener under someone else.

[01:21:46] And I just think what sadder way for him to go than by the people he'd been spending all these years trying to liberate and lead to something better. That was a sad one for me.

[01:22:28] That final scene where he had put on Galadriel's ring and became scarred was really moving, really incredible. And then he took it off and became scarred again. Yeah, it was really symbolic and just really emotional as well. I loved his character. I would love to see a prequel, see his early life. Wouldn't that be amazing? Like first age, Adar.

[01:22:55] Yeah, like Origen, him becoming the scarred version, like the corruption by Sauron. I would, yeah, that would be amazing to watch. And our final one, another one really close to my heart, Calabrimbor. So he had this really sad arc towards the end there with this dissent due to the narcissistic abuse from Sauron.

[01:23:23] You know, him believing that he was this emissary of the Valar and was there to help teach him and manipulated him in the worst way. But it was a very noble death in the end. And I love the things that he managed to say to Sauron about, you know, himself being, basically getting it across to Sauron that Calabrimbor was noble and true and that Sauron was just nothing and would end up nothing. And just, yeah, it was incredible.

[01:23:52] Really, really well done. And that torture scene with Sauron tweaking the arrows was really awful. We wondered how he was going to be portrayed. We've talked about it before where in the book he ends up on a pike and has paraded around like a banner in front of the Elven armies.

[01:24:15] We didn't see that, but we did see a really nice nod towards that with him being spiked by that pike and then raised up against the column. So that was really, really well done. Really heartbreaking and incredible acting again by Charles Edwards. Just beautiful. Really lovely to see. Yeah, so that's all our people to say goodbye to. And let's hope we don't lose as many as that in the next season. It's quite a long list. All right.

[01:24:42] We're going to take a little break now and there's heaps more. So stay with us.

[01:25:16] And we have just a little bit of news from the Lord of the Rings universe. First up, we have an article from IGN.com called The Lord of the Rings, The Rings of Power shakes things up for season three with a time jump and quote the orc with an arc. This article is by Mike Avila. And I've just got a couple of excerpts here. When it returns for its third season on November 11th, Rings of Power will be making a significant time jump in the storyline.

[01:25:43] Season three will be set five years after the events of season two when Sauron did away with his disguise and sent the elves into retreat as his armies overran Middle Earth. I just to insert here would say that in Middle Earth, five years is not necessarily a significant time jump when sometimes it's like 700 years later.

[01:26:05] But anyway, Patrick McKay, who is the showrunner, was interviewed for this article and he embraced making such a pronounced jump in the narrative timeline because it drops the viewer right in the center of the action, making them catch up to the story. He said,

[01:26:50] That's really exciting. This is brand new information for me. I've tried to stay a little bit away from most of the news so that I can be unspoiled, but I really like this. And I think one of the biggest benefits of this is like we spoke about is Theo. He looks significantly older and he's going to and it is probably the one cast member who that will be noticeable for. And so I think it's going to fit really well.

[01:27:15] I also think if they're going to take him in a direction of leadership, like we've talked about before, that that's going to fit really well for his character. We might see already that he's kind of moved into that, which is going to be really great. And you're right, Penny, about the time frames. You know, that battle that we've just seen with Sauron and the elves in the book, it lasted for about seven or eight years. The actual siege of Erigion was two years. So it's not going to happen on screen. And I think seeing the jump is going to be great. That's awesome.

[01:27:45] This article is pretty long and it had some stuff that I thought was kind of spoilery. So we'll link the whole thing in the show notes. But I only pulled out this one other excerpt. Veronica, I want to read that. Yeah. So it goes on to say, The presentation of the orcs is one of the most notable detours the series takes from Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies. In the films, the orcs are mainly a collective of terror and brute force.

[01:28:09] By that time period in the rings mythos, they have devolved into an existence of serving as Sauron's blunt instruments of war and destruction. In Rings of Power, orcs are not simply rampaging monsters. They're more complex with distinct personalities and deeply personal motivations. Fans even got a glimpse of an orc family last season when we met the orc Glug, his wife and child.

[01:28:33] Of course, Sauron viciously kills Glug to sow distrust among the other orcs and turn them against Adar. But that tragic ending underscores how in the Second Age, the orcs are more than just mindless cannon fodder. The expansion of the orcs as a more complicated aspect of Middle-earth continues in Season 3, as we are introduced to the character of Marnuk. An orc unlike any we've ever seen in a Tolgan adaptation.

[01:29:01] He appears in Rivendell claiming to be a defector from Sauron's army who wants to help the elves fight back. So I think that'll be interesting. I'm excited about it. Yeah. And I think it does something that – I was raised very religious, and I remember learning about Satan and thinking all the depictions that you have of Satan are this terrible, devil-looking thing.

[01:29:28] And I remember even as a small child thinking. But, like, people with ill intentions often – like, it's not going to always be obvious to your eye that this is the bad person because they're wearing, you know, devil horns on their head.

[01:29:48] And so I think that's one thing that's been fun, not only to see Sauron in his alternate appearances as, you know, very attractive young man Halbrand, as, you know, ethereal Annatar, who's presenting himself as this, you know, beautiful figure of adoration but is actually weaving really evil things into the universe.

[01:30:14] And on the flip side, we're getting to see that orcs who are this obvious representation of grotesquerie are more than just that. And so I'm actually really appreciating that about the series that they're playing with some of this. And I don't know. Things aren't always as straightforward as they seem. And I think we know that in real life, but that's not always how it's portrayed in fantasy series.

[01:30:43] And so I'm really excited about getting more character development and just more to the orcs than just bad, ugly fighters. I agree. Our next article is from Kaleida. And this is titled Lord of the Rings officially debuts 2026 release ahead of Rings of Power season three. And this is for those gamers out there.

[01:31:12] In addition to content on the big and small screen, the Lord of the Rings fans also have some exciting content from other mediums to be excited about, not least of which is a new game in the works from War Horse Studios. The same developers behind both critically acclaimed Kingdom Comes games. Little is known about the new release at this time. It is still in the early stages of development, but it is confirmed to be an open world game that will allow players to explore Middle Earth.

[01:31:40] And another riveting development this afternoon, Daybreak Games and Standing Stone Games released the new Wolves of Mordor expansion for the Lord of the Rings online. With the War of the Ring won, the Free Peoples believe Sauron's threat is over. However, beyond the plateau of Gorgoroth, some of Sauron's servants have returned and the Wolves of Mordor are hunting down those who destroyed their master.

[01:32:04] And there's a few different versions of that that are available from that standard edition, $39 right up to the ultimate fan bundle for $129. I love how they name those extra levels to try and get excited to get the next one. I'm not a gamer, but it sounds really cool.

[01:32:22] And there was also a little bit of extra kind of news, I guess, in that outside wider Lord of the Rings kind of sphere that they just finished shooting in New Zealand for the hunt for Gollum. Just this last week, I think, was their final wrap. And that's set to be released December next year. So that's something else to look forward to as well. So exciting. It is.

[01:32:48] We'll probably be jonesing for some Lord of the Rings content as we wait another two years for season four. It's nicely timed, I think. It's really good. So definitely something else to look forward to towards the end of the year next year. And we got a little bit of feedback from our listeners who are just as excited as we are about the upcoming season. Do you want to go ahead with that first one, Penny? Sure. We heard from Erica Price, who said, how exciting.

[01:33:16] Anwen, I can't thank you enough for turning me on to red carpet tours. I had an amazing vacation and I can't stop thinking about it. International Hobbits Day was my favorite day. And she included a photo of herself in front of a hobbit hole. I have a similar photo. That's lovely. That's so great. I absolutely love that. I'm so glad, Erica, that you did the tour with Red Carpet. And I think everybody who goes on those tours just has their most incredible time.

[01:33:46] Thank you so much for sending the message and for the photo as well. It just really warmed my heart. Next, we have a message from Alyssa Iringa saying, you guys do an amazing job. I'm super excited for this season. Galadriel and Celeborn reunited. The crafting of the One Ring. Gandalf becoming more like the wizard we know. The story progressing ever closer to the Third Age. Welcome back. That's brilliant.

[01:34:15] Thanks, Alyssa. We got a message short and sharp from Mark McBurney. Feels like decades since the last season was released. I thoroughly agree, Mark. Yeah, it does. But it also doesn't. It's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And we look forward to some more feedback from you this season, Mark. We really enjoyed your messages last two years. Yeah, the feedback is really one of the highlights of podcasting. I love hearing from listeners. Otherwise, it sometimes can feel like we're just like talking into the void.

[01:34:44] And when we hear from listeners either asking us questions or commenting or noticing something we didn't notice, or sometimes they just say something funny. It just makes all the time and effort that we put into these podcasts so worth it. So thank you all. Absolutely. And just building on what you said earlier, Penny, I would love to officially challenge everybody to send us a voicemail for these next few episodes.

[01:35:11] Especially if you've written to us before, but we haven't heard your voice. Or if you're a listener who's been listening a while or a brand new listener, just throw some words out there. And we would absolutely love to hear them. And we also love hearing where people are from and different accents from around the world as well, which is great because we know this is a global audience. Our final piece of feedback is from Tam Gray Gravenal, who I happen to know lives in Australia. And she says, Finally!

[01:35:38] I've loved listening to you wise ladies as much as I loved this series. Feels like a marathon rewatch could be on the cards before the new season starts. I was inspired to pick up, after a very long time, Lord of the Rings, after listening to your expansive knowledge and lore of these wonderful worlds created for so many generations to enjoy. Can't wait to see where the adventures take us next. Thanks, Tam, my Australasian buddy. Can't wait to hear some of your feedback as well for the season.

[01:36:08] And we're glad that you're along on the ride with us too. And for everybody else who's keen to leave us a message, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com. And over there, you're going to find all of our other shows as well. So much that you can listen to. Penny, what have you been recording or listening to recently? Well, you can find me almost every week, although we will take a break during Rings of Power, on Still Slaying, a Buffyverse podcast,

[01:36:36] where we have been doing a rewatch of all of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and its spinoff show Angel. We occasionally take breaks to cover movies. And our criteria is anything that you can remotely connect to the themes in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. So that has included movies like Heathers, Cruel Intentions, Sinners, K-pop Demon Hunters, and most recently, Blade. And we'd love to have you guys over there.

[01:37:04] Also coming later in November will be Yellow Jackets WTF that I podcast on with Jason, Wendy, and Daphne. And we're really looking forward to that. That's the fourth and final season of that show. I just recently watched the trailer for that, and it looks epic. I can't wait. It looks really incredible. And as much as I love Yellow Jackets and would have loved them to go the five seasons, I think it's time for them to come back to this. And I think it's going to be wrapped up beautifully in that final season. Can't wait.

[01:37:34] I'm excited about it. If you are a House of the Dragon fan, I also recommend Veronica and the team over at Dragon Cast. They do an awesome job, and it's so fun. And Archmaester Rennie has so much lore knowledge that I am just glued to my headphones when they are talking about Targaryens and Westeros. I get to just come on and be kind of the dummy on that show and talk about how excited I am about the characters. And it's really delightful.

[01:38:03] Very delightful. Fantastic. And that's basically going to be it, I think, for us today. It's so much to watch and listen to out there, and we're excited to be back again very soon with our coverage for episodes one and two for season three. And as we mentioned at the top, we're going to be recording a podcast episode for every two episodes of the show. Love to hear your feedback.

[01:38:29] Please let us know when you send it what episodes the feedback is for, because I know a few people will be turning on their TV or computer and binging all four episodes at once. We're going to keep ourselves a little bit pure by doing two episodes at once and then recording. So let us know. And we can't wait to hear your feedback. That is our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. As the long, dark night of waiting for season three is almost over, we should remember the

[01:38:58] counsel of our dear friend, Celebrimbor, greatest of Elvin Smiths. Yes, we should remind our people that it is not strength that overcomes darkness, but light. And the sun yet shines. And the sun yet shines.