507: "Please Hold to My Hand" Listener Feedback

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go!

[00:00:05] Hello Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason.

[00:00:40] And I'm Lucy. And I'm Ben. And this is The Cast of Us episode 507. And this episode we're going through your feedback for The Last of Us series one episode four. Please hold to my hand. That's not the tune. I just thought I was saying. It might be. We don't really know. What'd you think of it, Lucy? I enjoyed it. I mean, it was always going to be hard to follow last week's, but it feels... It felt like a buildup to next week, which I think is good.

[00:01:07] It's hard when it's dropping week to week, isn't it? Because we're like, oh, a buildup episode. Damn. But it worked for me. I particularly wanted to ask you because there are some segments that are just like I was reaching for my controller, like it's so close to the game, you know? And I wondered if it played that way to you. I don't think so. There's a couple.

[00:01:30] So Peter is the resident gamer in our house, so and he has not played The Last of Us, but there are occasionally scenes where I'll look at him and he's like, yeah, that's that I think that's a game play scene. Right. Excitingly, we are borrowing somebody's PlayStation in order to play the game after this season has concluded because we decided we wanted to. I felt it was definitely a slower week, but I really, you know me, I'm a sucker for character development where not much happens. And I liked that it left us at a point where there's a powder keg hopefully going to explode next week.

[00:01:59] So, yeah, I enjoyed it well enough. It's probably the one I've clicked with the least, but that's like saying it's the flavor of Ben and Jerry's. I like the least like they're all good. Yeah. It's a good level. So the scene I'm thinking of in particular are when Joel and Ellie crashed through the laundromat and then Joel was hunkered down on the side of the car and sent Ellie through that hole. That was just like the game.

[00:02:25] You always take cover and then you poke your head up and shoot like he did to, you know, give someone else cover. And that didn't feel like, oh, I'm watching a video game to you. No, I think I could. In my head, I'm always thinking, is this a game like like with The Walking Dead? I was always like, oh, that's a comic panel or oh, I bet that gets shown in the comic in different way. I what I've enjoyed about it, actually, and I think it was maybe the Guardian. I read a review in it that commented on this is that the fights are very naturalistic in some ways.

[00:02:55] So even though it's video game. Yeah, it's in the game. Sloppy. Yeah, people are sloppy. They're shouting. They're swearing. They're calling each other's names and that kind of stuff. It's not like everyone is suddenly in a Western or in like a Star Wars film. Well, that's a good example because, you know, famously the troopers so well. Yeah, it's like that's one of the great things. The game that's very naturalistic. So even though this was just like a game and maybe it didn't feel video gamey because the game itself doesn't feel all that video gamey. Well, I'm so psyched to play it.

[00:03:25] And yeah. Yeah, I can't wait to hear you. Are you like, why do I fucking die all the time? Because maybe I'll film myself doing it for the channel. It'll just be me swearing a lot. One time Karen and I did a like a one hour stream of us playing Resident Evil. Maybe we could try something like that. It would be hilarious. Ben, what about you? I, you know what? I'm right there with, um, with Lucy's thoughts.

[00:03:51] And I, I, it's, it's very hard to follow last week's episode because I absolutely adored last week's episode. And, but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy this episode at all. Like you said, as somebody who's played the game, there are so many elements to it that just felt pulled right from the game that made me feel like, oh, I need to hit triangle at this point. Or something. I mean, like, you know, throw that ball at the top. Or Joel, like pushing on the door to help Ellie get it like unbraced.

[00:04:20] And it's, it's like, yeah, like this is all the stuff you had to do in the game. And it, it really, that kind of pulled me into it more than I think it would had had I not played the game. Yeah. I mean, to me, it made me feel like I love this because I just, I love the game and it's one of my favorite games and it's so fun. But I'm also like, I hope that people who haven't played the game aren't thinking, oh, this is like a game. I hope they don't even think about it. You know?

[00:04:48] I mean, you kind of, if you, since you know, it's from a game, you wonder, but I just hope those scenes don't pull people out of it. Yeah. I mean, I don't think so. Yeah. Yeah. And then you throw in the addition of two, two new characters that we've never, the gamers have never met before in Kathleen and Perry. And now I'm, I'm brought in even more. And like Lucy said, like, it's just going to be a powder keg probably next episode. I know. And I, I, whatever's in that storage room. Cause I, I, yeah, I like, I watched it.

[00:05:15] I watched it the second time I watched it with my mother who I've absolutely drawn into the series. And she's like, well, what's under the floor? And I was like, I know, but I'm not going to tell you. You have to wait and see. Yeah. I can't wait. Friday, everybody. It's coming out early. Don't forget. Yeah. Early this week. That's good for us. That means I can be super prepared because I'll have the weekend. Yeah. All right. So, uh, before we get into our feedback this week, I have a couple of news items.

[00:05:43] First off the game, the last of us part one, which was a total ground up redoing of the graphics for PS five to take advantage of the extra power of the PS five is on sale on the PlayStation store right now for 50 bucks. Normally it's 70 just to let people know. Um, I mean, you can actually get the PS four version, which is also incredibly beautiful for just $10 and that works on the PS five too.

[00:06:12] So, um, I mean, that was one game that really didn't need a graphical update, but it, they did one and we all bought it anyway. And yet you and I both own it anyway. Exactly. So they're on sale guys. Uh, uh, another really quick thing. I, I love listening to the official HBO last of us podcast every week. It's so good. It's so good.

[00:06:35] And it's Neil Druckmann and Craig may, I wish they'd ask Neil Druckmann more questions, but Craig Mazin and Troy Baker, who is the voice of Joel in the game does is the host. I recommend that it's a quick listen, 30, 45 minutes. Um, this week, one thing that they said that I thought was pretty cool. Craig Mazin said that the goal of the show, one of the goals is to repeatedly surprise people who played the games by, um, bringing in new characters or changing things slightly, you know?

[00:07:04] And I love that. I was like, yeah, I, cause I noticed they've done that somewhat already. Like you said, Ben introducing these new characters and just changing things up a little. And just to hear him say that that's, that's on their mind and that it will keep happening, coming up. Makes me excited because I, I want to see these game, these scenes straight out of the game, but I also like to be surprised too. Mm hmm. So that's cool. Um, slate.com had an article about whether canned chef Boerty ravioli would last 20 years.

[00:07:33] And they interviewed this guy, Kent Connolly, who's the founder of MREinfo.com, a website for enthusiasts of vintage military rations. There are enthusiasts for vintage military rations. There's enthusiasts for everything. And he said, quote, canned food will last a long time. How it holds up kind of depends on the food. Things like canned fruit, you know, wet stuff like peaches and things like that, that doesn't hold up so well. That stuff turns brown and is not very appetizing.

[00:08:02] Things like ravioli or the canned spaghetti, I think they're still pretty good. That's what he said. There you go. All right. And last, uh, from Hollywood reporter.com, they had an article about how, uh, this woman, Adrian Curry, who was America's next top model first season winner. She tweeted about Melanie Linsky's character in the last of us. She said, well, about Melanie Linsky.

[00:08:29] She said her body says life of luxury, not post-apocalyptic warlord. Where is Linda Hamilton when you need her? Oh, fuck off. And that's pretty much what Melanie Linsky's response was. She, she, uh, uh, Adrian Curry had tweeted a picture with that of Melanie Linsky all dressed up for some show or, or I think it was a photo shoot in a dress. She also had some compliment about her hourglass figure trying to smooth it over or something. But anyway, Melanie Linsky responded.

[00:08:58] Firstly, this is a photo from my cover shoot for in style magazine, not a still from HBO's the last of us. And I'm playing a person who meticulously planned and executed and overthrow a Fedra. I'm supposed to be smart, ma'am. I don't need to be muscly. That's what henchmen are for. It's a good response. She, I'm going to read that because she then was inspired to write like a whole string of tweets with further response, I think. And I'm going to read it.

[00:09:23] She says, other than getting to work with creative geniuses who I respect and admire, Neil and Craig, the thing that excited me most about doing the last of us is that my casting suggested the possibility of a future in which people start listening to the person with the best ideas. Not the coolest or the toughest person, the organizer, the person who knows where everything is, the person who's doing the planning person who can multitask, the one who's decisive women and especially women in leadership positions are scrutinized incessantly. Her voice is too shrill.

[00:09:52] Her voice is too quiet. She pays too much attention to how she looks. She laughs at Jason's jokes too much. No, I'm just kidding. I added that part. She doesn't pay enough attention. Who could that be? Any woman who's ever podcasted with me. She doesn't pay enough attention to how she looks. She's too angry. She's not angry enough. I was excited at the idea of playing a woman who had in a desperate and tragic time jumped into a role she'd never planned on having and nobody else had planned on her having. And then she actually got shit done.

[00:10:22] I wanted her to look like she should have a notepad on her at all times. I wanted her to be feminine and soft voice and all the things that we've been told are weak because honestly fuck that. I understand that some people are mad and that I'm not the typical casting for this role. That's thrilling to me. Other than the moments after actions called when you feel like you're actually in someone else's body. The most exciting part of my job is subverting expectations.

[00:10:45] I'm so grateful to Craig and Neil for creating a truly new character, someone I've never seen before, and for trusting me with her and for letting me be on the most amazing show. And I'm also grateful because of the love and support I receive from you all is so overwhelming and powerful. I feel like we're a community and I feel very seen and loved. Okay, rant over. Thank you all so very much. Heart. You know, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

[00:11:09] And if you think about this, Adrian Curry or whatever her name is, being somebody like who was on America's Next Top Model, who comes from that life of luxury that she's claiming Melanie Linsky looks like. She's basically insulting herself in saying that people like this could never be leaders and never be smart enough to do it. Like, okay, you basically just insulted yourself and everybody you're probably friends with. Yep. Yep.

[00:11:34] I just, I feel, poor Melanie Linsky has to keep having this and she's there, you know. So dull, man. She's always talking about the body or what people say about her body. And she, I don't know, maybe she'll get sick of it at some point and just be like, fuck off. But she's there arguing, same thing with Yellow Jackets and other things that she's been in. And one thing I've enjoyed about The Last of Us is they're casting people who look more like everyday people.

[00:12:03] Like, I think Ellie does, you know, she looks more like an everyday person than you might expect for that role. And I think it's awesome. Well, even Joel kind of hits those notes too as somebody who's, excuse me, in his 50s with bad knees and like trouble hearing. Like, yeah, that's an everyday person. That's not like a superhero-esque person. It is as far as his characteristics go. However, Pedro Pascal is a super hunk. Well, okay.

[00:12:33] I'll give you that part. I have, yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about women in the public eye and I just think, yeah, good for her for sticking up for herself and fuck people who think it's their right to say shit like that. Like, ugh, it's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. And at the same time, even if she didn't say anything at all in rebuttal and just brushed it off, it'd be this, I'd have the same amount of respect for her as I did for saying something. 100%. She's awesome. She's a great actress. We're very lucky to have her. Absolutely.

[00:13:03] And even if she wasn't a great actress, even if she was just a normal person, do you know what? She's allowed to have a body. Exactly. I know. All right, let's move on to listener screams, snarls, and clicks. Click, click, I'm a zombie guy. I loved Karen's reaction to that when you played that last week. Brilliant. She hadn't heard it before. Lucy? Okay, Rob Zember says, that diarrhea joke.

[00:13:33] That got me. That had me cracking up. I was laughing. Yeah. Her delivery was very good, I have to say. Yes. It's all about the delivery, yeah. And just what made it better. And then seeing Joel trying not to laugh. Yeah. That's what I was going to say, just Joel's reaction to it made it even better. Laura Swaggle, interesting table setting episode with a great cliffhanger ending. Mm-hmm. Ian Westwell says, I think I know what's underneath that floor. I won't say here though.

[00:14:04] Angie Hill Reynolds says, Star Wars anyone? I cracked up Ellie's pew, pew, pew in the cold open. Adam, long time listener, first time writing in. I've been loving the podcast for over 10 years now. Just wondering if any of you have seen the BBC Earth or Nat Geo videos on this phenomenon. If not, links are below. And we didn't put the link. Yeah. I'll put the links in the show notes. It's two really quick videos, like three and four minutes.

[00:14:32] One's called Zombie Parasite Cordyceps Fungus Takes Over Insects Through Mind Control. And the other one's called Attack of the Killer Fungi. The Killer Fungi. Hey. Mark McBurney says, another good episode, a bit slower than the rest, but I did like the character building between Joel and Ellie. I'm not sure what I liked most out of Ellie's dad joke or the Bill magazine callback from the game.

[00:15:00] Yes, such good character building between the two of them. Yeah, it's great. Maybe the best of it. I mean, like, I think maybe this episode was my least favorite too. Kind of like you said, Lucy, but they're all great. But I did so much love their bonding. You need that. You need room for that in a show like this. Jennifer McAdam from Scotland says, Oh, Monty, fuck Kathleen. Don't kill the doctor just because he can't save Brian. It's a doctor. He's priceless.

[00:15:29] Why'd they always do that? Oh, who knows? Maybe he was a pedophile and we just never seen that bit. Best comment ever. Thank you, Jennifer, for coaxing out Lucy's more Scottish accent that we were trying to get last time. Do I need to interpret any of that for you? I think we got it. Yeah, I think it's pretty clear. That is not to discredit Jennifer. I don't know what Monty fuck means. It's just that my accent might get the idea. It's like, it's come on to fuck. Like, get to fuck, man. Come on.

[00:15:59] I don't know if that would have come across as good as Jason and I read that one. No. Oh, Monty fuck. May Amardini. Do you think Brian was Kathleen's son? That's the sense. I did wonder this. That's the sense I got. And maybe that's why she shot the doctor. If he couldn't help her son, he's useless. So she shot him. I'm thinking this is going to complicate things more for Ellie and Joel. You know, I didn't even think about that.

[00:16:28] I wondered about it because he kept saying mom and we knew she's a prominent woman. But the way she reacted to seeing him dead, it didn't seem like it. You know, she was just like, who did this? But not like my son. But I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. Kristen Crabtree says, as a person whose love language is dad jokes and puns. I enjoyed this episode. Those are some great ones.

[00:16:56] I'm sure others will have some more profound and insightful takeaway. But you know, I used to not like mushrooms, but they're growing on me. Ha ha. Oh, gosh. I hope not, Kristen. That's awesome. Bob Oaks says, no way this episode could live up to the last one. Set up episode of a two part story. Looking forward to seeing what happens next. Also looking forward to seeing more infected. And what the hell is up with the floor in the building? Good question. We're going to find out Friday.

[00:17:27] Yeah. Yeah. Lindsay Schlitt. Loved all the scenes with Joel and Ellie. It was nice seeing their relationship grow. As excited as I was to see Melanie Linsky, the scenes with her and her group were very confusing. Felt like I missed something. Can't wait to see what kind of crazy shit is under that floor. Well, hopefully the podcast cleared up some of that for you. Yeah. Teej Matiel says, well, last week we were led astray by Walking Dead storylines convincing us that Frank would kill Bill.

[00:17:55] This week we were guided true by Walking Dead and knowing that the injured guy in the alley should be ignored unless he had a nice orange backpack. What's the orange back? Is that a Glenn reference? No. In the episode clear when they're driving and they leave the guy at the side of the road, he's wearing an orange backpack and they go back to get the backpack after he's been chewed up. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right. He wants help and they're like, drive on. The backpack's around for a while, isn't it?

[00:18:23] You see it a lot in future episodes. You do. And every time you see it, it reminds you how cruel they were to just leave that poor guy. Of how shitty the protagonists are as people. Kyra Lopnot says, first time commenting after all these years. Oh, thanks Kyra. This was a great episode, especially for those who have played. I seem to remember the notes that you pick up in the game. It gave you a bit of story about people writing each other out. I've been trying to find all the notes to read to see if there's anything to this. And that's where the storyline came from.

[00:18:53] Oh, interesting. I don't remember that, to be honest. Yeah, I don't either. I don't remember notes about writing people out, but that doesn't mean they're not there. I try to look at all that stuff, but... Time to replay the game again. This one comes from Terry. I'm a big fan of all your podcasts. I'm really liking The Last of Us. One issue I have is Joel's choice of a firearm. He had a big choice of all Bill's guns, and he chose a bolt-action hunting rifle. This is good for sniping, but not good for close encounters.

[00:19:22] I would choose a shotgun or an assault rifle. I know he has pistols. Also, why didn't he load up that pickup with ammo and guns? Your thoughts? I don't think we know for sure he didn't load up with ammunition. Because as we see in this episode, we see canned goods and everything in the backseat. So I don't think there's anything that's saying there's no ammunition in that truck, even though everything just got left behind this episode. I know, huh? I mean, yeah, you're right.

[00:19:49] With all those guns they found in that storeroom, you'd think he would load up... I mean, the only reason I could think that he wouldn't take them all is because he likes to have stores of things around that he can draw from later, you know? Like we saw he'd hidden stuff in certain places that he might need later. So he might not take all the guns because he could go back to Bill and Frank's later and get more maybe. I don't know. But yeah, hopefully he did take some.

[00:20:17] And I mean, the, what do you call it? Bolt action hunting rifle. He was able to shoot the guy across the street. I don't think he would have been able to do that with a shotgun, right? Well, not only that, but thinking from... But he says an assault rifle, so yeah. Yeah. But I mean, like thinking from probably Joel's perspective about this too, like trying to get in the mind of Joel, why would you want to bring more guns than you need just to give the opportunity for other people to get them? Take them. That's a good point too.

[00:20:46] You know, but as far as like the difference between a bolt action hunting rifle and an assault rifle, I have no clue. I don't know anything about guns. You may have a point. I am woefully ignorant about guns. Sorry. Yeah. I did my two pieces there. Brad Holt. Brad Holt says another solid episode. Love the driving montage at the beginning. It was cool seeing the decayed world. All the overgrowth really gives you a sense of dread since the threat is from a plant-like source.

[00:21:15] Oh, I never thought about that. The scene outside Kansas City with the corpses in the abandoned cars reminded me of Rick arriving at the gas station in the premiere episode of The Walking Dead. Can't wait to see how this new group situation plays out. This episode felt more like The Walking Dead to me than any episode so far of the four. It was interesting to me that rural areas are safer. That interested me quite a lot. Yeah. I mean, I know that in The Walking Dead it tended to be an equal mix towards the end.

[00:21:43] Like some cities were abandoned, some were infested. So yeah, that was cool. Beth Nichols says, Yet another great episode. I enjoyed seeing Ellie and Joel's relationship progressing and Ellie's puns were fun. I'm a sucker for a dad joke. I was confused about a couple of things. How, why did they end up driving near the QZ? Wouldn't Joel know where it was? Also, I didn't quite understand what they were showing us with the women who shot the doctor. Are they fireflies and who is that person they're looking for? Good questions.

[00:22:11] I think they're, you know, taking highways which tend to go near and through cities. And the way he wanted to go was blocked off. We saw that. So he had, so he decided instead of walking through this, well, I don't know what he decided. But anyway, yeah, the point was that they got diverted through the city, but it wasn't the plan to go through the city in the first place. But their place they wanted to go was too blocked off and it would have taken too long to go around. They looked at the map and they're like, how long would it take to go back?

[00:22:40] And he's like, screw it. Let's just go. I enjoyed Rima's idea that it's because he's sleep deprived because we do make crap decisions when we're sleep deprived as well. So. Sure. All right, let's do a couple of calls. Here's May Almardini. Hello, Podcastica team. This is May. I'm calling in with my feedback for episode four of The Last of Us. I thought it was a great episode. Really funny. I love the puns. Puns are actually my favorite types of jokes.

[00:23:09] We got some levity from, you know, the monsters and the tragic deaths. Although there was a tragic death this week, they didn't rip our heart out by having it someone we fell in love with. So that was kind of nice. And I really enjoy how the show is actually toning down the violence compared to a video game. If you think of most of the deaths that are happening right now, they're happening off screen. We're not really seeing a lot of Quran blood. So I'm going to be talking about this. Just four important things that I wanted to leave.

[00:23:38] Number one, what's brown and sticky? A stick. Number two, what do you call a cow laying down? Ground beef? What do you call a cow sitting against the fence? Lean beef. And my final comment for the show is, what do you call a cow that just gave birth? Decaffeinated. Have a great day, everyone.

[00:24:09] I like the first one best. What's brown and sticky? A stick. Is it too much to ask that people who leave voicemails from now on should end them with a pun? It may be, actually. You may regret that. I love it. I know. That was amazing, May. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's a great point I hadn't really thought about that. A lot of the deaths are off screen. Frank and Bill and this guy, Brian, this time.

[00:24:39] And the doctor. Yeah, right. The doctor too. I wonder if they're going to get more gory with it at some point or not. I don't know. They're kind of like setting a standard. You would think maybe they won't get gory after this or maybe they will and it'll just stand out that much more since we haven't seen it up to now. Well, the show is also kind of breaking the mold of previous shows and you know where like if the screen if the death happens off screen it didn't really happen.

[00:25:06] And now like this is breaking that mold and like yeah, all the deaths are happening off screen. I had been thinking of it as kind of scarier than the walking dead, but the walking dead so far at least is gorier. Hmm. Actually even thinking about like even tests happened off screen. Ultimately. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, I think everybody but Sarah at this point has happened off screen. Interesting. It's true. We need more gore.

[00:25:36] No, I'm just kidding. And here is Owen from Leeds. Good old Owen. Okay, this is Owen from Leeds in England. I'm hoping that I'm getting this sent in in time. Because I've been a bit late to the episodes each week. And this is on episode four of season one of the last of us. Just briefly episode three. I just want to say I think was absolutely amazing and was as good as pretty much anything I've seen in a hell of a long time. That was fabulous.

[00:26:05] Episode four. It was really nice to see so much more of Joel and Ellie, you know, getting getting closer, having that having more of a bond. When it comes to things that they both had to do. And just lovely to see, you know, the little, the bad puns. And how annoyed Joel is at first. He's like, just get back in the bloody car. And then by the end, she makes a joke and he starts chuckling away.

[00:26:34] And you're like, this is a nice light-hearted ending. And then they get woken up with a couple of guns to the face by the, I guess, Henry and the kids. Should I don't play the games? Never played the game. So I'm just going into this completely new and absolutely loving it at the moment. Yeah, it's really interesting. I can't help every episode I'm thinking about The Walking Dead though.

[00:27:04] Like, it's very eerie. And kind of odd in that I don't think this episode had any of the infected in. Unless if I'm wrong with that. Whereas the kind of Walking Dead, almost a trope at a time was that they'd have one zombie, one zombie kill. It might be about six seconds, but they'd have it in. Whereas, yeah, it's not about the infected. It seems to be about Joel and Ellie, which I quite like.

[00:27:31] So yes, this is Owen from Leeds, England, signing out. Thank you guys. Good to hear from him. Glad you're digging it, man. Yeah. Yeah, no one infected this week. And last week we only got the one that was trapped kind of under the rubble in the basement of the Cumberland farm. No, there's also, I mean, very brief, but one tripped one of Bill's wires and shot in the head.

[00:28:00] That was on TV though. That was his entertainment, yeah. That was his TGIF. Alex Burris, what do the cast, oh, here we go. What do the cast of us and the last of us have in common? They're both full of fun guys and fun gals. Thanks. My one question is, my one question is why does everyone always kill the doctor in the apocalypse? Oh, good lord.

[00:28:27] Wouldn't doctors be like the one type of person who would get a free pass? Anywho, enjoyed the episode and was so glad to hear Karen on the podcast last week. So was I. I think it's, maybe, at this point it does seem to be a quote unquote thing. And I think maybe the writers are drawn to having the doctors get killed off because then it seems more hopeless, you know? So that's a meta thing. Yeah, the stakes are so much higher if there's no doctor.

[00:28:58] Yeah. Kristen Halberg says, A lovely slow burn this week. Seeing Joel and Ellie learning to trust and rely on each other each week has been great. And this week they really became a unit. As Joel opened up about Tommy and mentioned Tess by name, it's evident he is letting his walls come down brick by brick to possibly let Ellie in. I liked seeing that Ellie didn't want to share her past with him just yet, letting him know she has some demons she's dealing with just as much as he is.

[00:29:27] Can't wait to hear your discussion this week. You're all killing it. Thank you, Kristen. That is a very astute observation. I hadn't really thought of it, but they mentioned it on the podcast, the official podcast that Joel's not the only one holding back. Ellie is too. She has her own secrets. So yeah, they still have some ways to go before they they're fully trusting with each other. I have a feeling too.

[00:29:53] Like, I mean, we we know we've seen in trailers where we're definitely going to get some of that. I'm very curious as to how long they're going to wait to give it to us in the series. Well. Yeah, I think I know the exact episode given the title of the episode. Oh, okay. I haven't looked ahead at the title episode. Oh, is that the episode called Joel and Ellie have a big hug? That's the one. Yeah, I did wonder if that was what was going to happen in that one. Thanks for clarifying. It's just five minute long episode that week.

[00:30:23] Oh, it's just that it's just them hugging each other. Okay. Yeah, it's a five minute. I would watch that. It'd be very relaxing. Better than episode three. Mike Mokahi says, Late to the party due to moving, but I'm all caught up and excited to be along for the ride with you guys. Through the first four episodes, I'm primarily enjoying the acting and relationship of Pedro and Bella. They really got to shine a lot in this episode. The gun lesson scene and the falling asleep scene were both great examples of the wonderful chemistry they have,

[00:30:53] and the acting was just a joy to watch. The two of them are hitting all the right notes for me, and I'm excited to see where the reacting chops will take us before the season concludes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that you guys didn't mention on the podcast this week that I thought of when I was rewatching is the scene in the beginning when she takes the gun out and she's pointing it at the mirror. And, you know, she pulls it back and she drops the bullet that's in the in the chamber already. I watched that.

[00:31:19] And as somebody who comes from a law enforcement family, I'm like, yeah, this is not her first time handling it. Mm hmm. Like I knew just by watching that scene, it's like she's done this before. Mm hmm. I think what amazes me about Pedro and Bella is I didn't realize until last week they would never have met each other on Game of Thrones because they were completely different seasons. Because in my head I was like, oh, they'll have done Game of Thrones together. They'll know each other from that. And I'm like, oh, he actually left quite early relative to the length of the show. And she arrived quite late. So interesting. Yeah.

[00:31:49] And his SNL this week, too, by the way. Oh, my God. What was so freaking good. I don't watch SNL anymore, but I watched that one just because of him. And it was fantastic. G. Joe Puthia loved it. I feel if I got this bonding episode, I would have loved the previous long, long time episode a lot more. I think I needed to see Joe and Ellie solidify their relationship before outside drama happened. And what a bonding episode they bonded over violence and wound up in a situation that has nothing to do with them.

[00:32:19] I love the moral quandary of revenge against Fedra, but by seeking revenge, they become like their enemies. Execution, stern policies, et cetera. I'm going to rewatch this series and I love it because it is giving me what I need. Albeit not what I want, not when I want, but I am beginning to have a complete faith in our show's creators. Good. I was saying in the podcast about this episode, you know, that we put out a few days back.

[00:32:47] I was trying to get to a point and I don't think I quite got it, but about how the point about bad and good people and how they kind of humanize this guy, Brian, when he was calling for his mother. Mm hmm. But he had just attacked Joel and Ellie trying to kill them. And then Joel said he'd been on both sides of this, you know, and he sort of by silence kind of said that he'd probably killed innocent people.

[00:33:13] And I wasn't trying to say that bad or good is relative necessarily, but more the point I was trying to zero in on is that there's a similarity between Joel and Kathleen, which is that they have people that they care about. And those are the people that they're good to and everyone else is expendable. And Kathleen, even more, she's at least what it seems like is if you see a stranger, kill him, you know? So if you're her friend, then you might think of her as good.

[00:33:41] But like the kind of people to me that just choose their tribe and then say, fuck you to everyone else. I don't like that kind of person. I would think of that person as kind of a bad person, even if they are good to some people. But then again, it's the apocalypse and it's a dangerous world. And I can't really judge too much since I live in a place where I can walk around and see strangers and not necessarily think they're going to be a threat, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:09] I mean, there's there it's definitely a world where there's shades of gray, but there are certain people that live. It's, you know, ride or die is in like it's it's white or black. And if you're if you're not the color that I am, not saying racially, but like, you know, whether you're on the good or the bad. You're not in my group. You're not in my group. Yeah. Then yeah, then you are. Then you're automatically against me. I mean, it sounds like Joel ambushed people and killed innocent people.

[00:34:37] And so that's not too great, even if you do have people back home that you're nice to. But we also don't know the situations as to why he did it. I mean, there could have been shades of gray, but that's what I love about this is that it leaves in a mystery. And I mean, it makes their characters more intriguing. There could have been, but he's saying innocent. You know, so that. Yeah. You're right. His silence kind of admitted. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Anyway, let's move on. Marie Lydane says another great episode.

[00:35:07] Ellie with that book of puns was hilarious, especially the last one with diarrhea joke. Even Joel had to laugh. I guess just like in The Walking Dead, doctors are doomed. And the ending. I'm assuming that was Sam and Henry. I don't know who they are. But from what I'm hearing, we're not going to like what happens to them. Hmm. Can't wait to hear the podcast. P.S. When I wrote my feedback last week, I didn't know that Karen was going to be on the show. What a cool surprise to hear her read it. And Rima, Ben and Eric told me not to get bit. Made my day. Love you guys.

[00:35:37] Aw. Hope you listened. Barbie Allen says, I know Brian would have killed Joel if it hadn't been for Ellie's intervention. But damn, I feel really sorry for him when he was shot and so scared. The exchange between Kathleen and her doctor really shows how no one trusts anyone anymore, no matter who they are or were. I am loving the gradual bonding of Ellie and Joel. Some of those puns were actually funny. He's starting to let himself care. I really thought he was going to be mad about her taking a gun. And instead, he was just sorry she had to use it. Then he took the time to show her how to handle it properly.

[00:36:07] And the compassion he showed for her having to grow up in this world. Very excited to see what's under the storage room floor. Saw the teaser for next week's episode. The return of the infected. Mushroom emoji. Yay, Barbie. Barbie. Yeah, like, you know, Ben, you made the point. She clearly already knew her way around a gun. So on my second watch, I was like, so what is he showing her? And I think he was just showing her the usefulness of gripping it with two hands. Yes. It's harder to take away from you.

[00:36:36] So she didn't have that part down quite yet. Yeah, exactly. Like making, like, how to hold the gun in a more proper stance so that, like, you're making your shot count. No kick back. You're using two hands. It's more stability in firing. Yeah. And Lucy, I just liked how you ended that with mushroom emoji. Mushroom emoji. It's ominous. Alicia Stout. Did you know that diarrhea is hereditary? LOL. That got me. That's a classic joke.

[00:37:05] And I was in stitches. I'm absolutely loving these two together. The humor is so great. They must have had so much fun filming. I mean, how could you not? Okay, guys. After last week's podcast where you, Eric, and Rima Jo spoke of fungus communicating with the trees underground, I couldn't help but think, why the hell were Joel and Ellie in the woods sleeping on the ground? That experiment has me totally freaked out that the trees can talk to each other. I would not sleep well. Nope. Nope.

[00:37:32] Loving the show so far, and being that I'm not a huge horror, terror, or intense show or movie watcher, I find it intriguing yet terrifying at the same time, and I can't stop watching it. Drawing people into the world of horror. I don't think the trees are anything you have to worry about in that world. Not unless you're in the two towers. Yeah. Or the happening, which is just a horrible part of it. Mm-hmm. I thought about that, too, at the same time.

[00:38:02] Like, why are they sleeping in the woods where there's most likely fungus around? But they're just not. It's different. Like, it's a different kind of thing. Well, Joel said something about, in rural areas, there's no infected or something. Right? When he said, yeah, he said something about that, that they don't come out here or something like that. Well, I also said the infected are idiots. He said that, but he really did say, I forget the exact line, but something about how they don't come out here in the middle of nowhere or something like that.

[00:38:32] I forget. Well, yeah, I mean, you look at the time that Bill and Frank had, the number that they encountered while they were out there were probably on, like, they can count on two hands. Yeah. You know, and it probably has, sadly, has a lot to do with Fedra clearing these areas out. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense if they really want to try to spread, multiply, that they're going to focus on where there's a higher density of people versus no people. Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:01] Erica N. further says, I'm really loving the budding relationship between Joel and Ellie. Episode four really feel like their adventure has truly begun. Ellie is trying to learn so much about the old world from Joel. It really made me think about how much we take for granted, even the little things. Yeah, I love how curious she is. I guess the flashbacks will not be in every episode, which is okay. I did notice that the episode opened with a gun pointing at Ellie at her reflection and at the end by Sam.

[00:39:31] Full circle and very startling. I didn't realize that. Now, my absolute favorite thing about this episode was Ellie's book of puns. It brought so much light and humor to such a dark episode. Puns bring me so much joy. So I'm going to spread that joy onto you fun guys. What do you call fungi that makes music? A decomposer. Thanks, Erica. I love that. Richard Drabb says, I'm overall really impressed with the show so far.

[00:40:00] I feel like the showrunner and directors do a great job with silence during the show. From episode one through episode four, the moments of silence have ramped up tension and have served almost like foreshadowing. The silence leaves me prepared for a jump scare, but the show doesn't rely on that cheap scare. Instead, the visuals, concepts and tension all serve as elements to keep me and my wife up at night. This episode was perfect at pacing. When the episode ended, I was left wondering why it was only 20 minutes long, or at least that's what it felt like.

[00:40:27] Can't wait to see what is under the floor and what will happen with this new group. I'm also looking forward to what is going to happen with Tommy. Hopefully, there will be some flashbacks and more of the story with Tommy, Marlene, the Fireflies, and, fingers crossed, Tess. Loving the podcast and the Last of Us slash podcastica group. Yeah, that'd be cool to see some of that. I just like the fact how we finally got an explanation as to how Joel ended up in Boston this week.

[00:40:55] Which, I know, was a question we have had since the beginning. Yeah, that's cool. But I really enjoyed that. Jeremy, I wish to bestow a heartfelt thank you to Lucy for giving me an A on my feedback submission from last week. That means more than you realize. Oh! I didn't do so well in English literature back in high school. Aww. As for this week's episode, one thing in particular really caught my attention.

[00:41:21] In the scene where Joel and Ellie are hiding out in the abandoned storefront, Joel affirms to Ellie that we'll get through this. I wasn't sure what the director was trying to get me to feel as everything presented up to that point implied that Joel is writing checks he can't cash. Ellie's quick reply that she believed him was not what I expected. It almost felt like Ellie was trying to reassure Joel. What say you? Yeah. Aww. Yeah. I kind of, like, yeah, he's like, we'll get through this.

[00:41:50] And she goes, I know. And I'm like, well, how do you know? You're in a TV show. You're the stars. That means yes. But otherwise, just trying to reassure each other, I guess. Right? Yeah, I believe that. I think there's definitely a degree that that's Ellie also trying to kind of, I guess, be a parent to Joel. The same way he's trying to comfort her. Yeah, just comfort each other. Be protectful of each other. Yeah.

[00:42:20] All right. Here's a couple more calls. Here's Thomas from Arizona. Hey, the cast of us. What's up? Thomas. This is Thomas from Arizona. I just wanted to call in for, I guess it's not really feedback, but more so some information that I'd love for you guys to have. So I live in Arizona. And in Arizona, we actually have a fungus that grows in the dirt. We call it valley fever, but there is actually obviously a medical name for it.

[00:42:49] But it affects what happens is these spores will bust and you inhale them. And animals die from it. There's been lots of dog deaths from this. It's a big concern in Arizona when you have a puppy. And it can affect your nervous system in so many different ways. In fact, my husband, Eric, had contracted valley fever somewhere around the summer of 2021.

[00:43:21] And we didn't know what it was because the diagnosis takes a lot of... You have to do a specific test to be diagnosed with valley fever. But before you do all of that, they're testing everything else. But long story short, it got to the point where his lung collapsed. And he actually had spores growing inside his lungs. So he had to take this special medication. He was hospitalized for 10 days.

[00:43:50] They had to give him a special medication that he had to take for like six months to start to kill the spores in his body. So I just remember during this time, it was pretty scary for a minute. But once we figure out what it was, it was great. But I said for many months, I was like, you're like growing spores in your body. Like you have mushrooms inside your body. It's kind of gross. So I thought I'd just share that with you.

[00:44:16] Valley fever affects less than 200,000 people a year. People can't die from it when they're not treated. So I mean, we literally have like this apocalyptic virus in our backyard. And the scary part about it is I didn't get affected. But we do everything together. So I'm just assuming I might have it because you can get affected with the spore.

[00:44:42] And it can lay dormant in your body for over 20 years before it actually responds. So that's kind of creepy, right? Anyways, I thought I'd just share that. I'm loving the show. This is so fucking incredible. I love that you guys are all doing the podcast. And I hope you guys enjoy the rest of your day. So thank you. And I'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye, Thomas.

[00:45:09] You know, I'm having these moments with Collins where like, I'm so glad that people who were with us for The Walking Dead have stayed with us. And Thomas is one of those people. It felt so nice to hear him. Horrible. What happened to Eric? I'm so sorry to hear that. I think that's what Karen was telling us about last week, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And it shows a fungus can grow in the human body. I'm making a note to myself. Keep the windows rolled up when driving through Arizona.

[00:45:40] Yeah. When he was saying, you know, I might actually have it. I was almost waiting for him to start clicking. I know. I was like, yeah, pretty sure I hugged you in San Francisco. Oh, no. Just kidding. Well, I'm glad that your husband's okay. I hope he's completely recovered at this point. Yeah. Thanks for calling, Thomas. All right. We got another call here from, I think it's mostly from Logan.

[00:46:10] Teej's son, Logan. Here we go. Hi, I'm Logan and I'm 14. I just watched episode four of The Last of Us. You're 13. Restart. You're 13. I said 14. Hi, I'm Logan. I'm 13. And I just watched episode four of The Last of Us. I was wondering what podcasts and stuff we're going to be called. And The Cast of Us is actually kind of good.

[00:46:40] The thing I like most is that it's like an apocalypse story, but it also has, well, it's really realistic. And it also has like bits of comedy tied in it with Ellie and Joel, very much unlike The Walking Dead.

[00:47:25] But, yeah. What you think as the show goes on. All right. Laura, Willie Swink says, One of my favorite things about this episode, and it was a small thing, was Joel and Ellie's road trip through a post-apocalyptic America. It's so realistic, well-produced, and simultaneously beautiful and heartbreaking. As Ellie drove by the abandoned amusement park, I had such a sense of melancholy at everything that was lost. Because this 14-year-old girl in our modern world would be riding on that roller coaster rather than running for her life.

[00:47:54] That sense of loss came back in the final song, another 80s warning of danger. The lyrics to New Order's True Faith. Quote, I used to think that the day would never come. I'd see delight in the shade of the morning sun. My morning sun is the drug that brings me near to the childhood I lost, replaced by fear. Oh, wow. Yeah, I didn't read that part in the podcast. I'm glad you put that in there. Oh, Laura.

[00:48:19] Yeah, I really liked that whole sequence of driving through post-apocalyptic America, too. There was a fleet of moss-covered FedEx trucks that I don't think we mentioned, but that train track especially that was bowed down in the middle with half the train hanging off of it. Yeah, I liked it. She mentioned it in the feedback, but I liked seeing the amusement park and everything, too.

[00:48:46] Made me wonder how well Woody Harrelson and Jesse Eisenberg would have fared at that amusement park. It is sad, though. You're right, Laura. Love that. Andrea Hatfield Olmstead says, Hey, it's Annie. Thanks for always hosting an amazing podcast. One of my favourite things about this episode is how it goes along with the game. It's funny because even as I watch them, I think of the game and how the game feels. After the car crash early on, I even remembered yelling, Grab your guns, Joel! Before returning into the wall.

[00:49:13] Also, in the laundry shop, when the guy was rambling on not to get killed, it reminded me of Randall and Carl from The Walking Dead. Scenery was amazing. Also, the Bill cameo from the game was awesome. Overall, I enjoyed it and it seems to keep getting better. I can't wait for next week's episode. Also, why did they swap the cities instead of doing Seattle? I found that confusing. Thanks for reading. Bye bye, guy. Bye bye. They swapped cities. It wasn't Seattle. It was Pittsburgh. Yeah.

[00:49:41] And they used Kansas City mostly because they're filming in and around Calgary and it just looks closer to Kansas City. But it also kind of lined up with the geography of where they wanted to be at this point in the story headed to try to find Tommy in Wyoming. That would make sense. Okay. Jess Baker. Long time listener. Second time commenter. I am loving this series. I have played and watched a ton of gameplay. This was such a fun episode. I felt like I needed a controller in some part.

[00:50:09] Very lighthearted compared to last week. I sobbed terribly last week. I wonder though if all the jokes were ad-libbed. I felt like never knowing what kind of joke was coming would give a better reaction for the character and actors. I feel like from an episode standpoint, since we are on episode four of nine already, I don't think we will end up getting to the end of part one in season one. It seems a little slower in the show to me. And of course they will need more filler to make the show longer.

[00:50:37] But I don't think we're going to make it. Do you think we'll make it to the end of the game part one in season one? Love, love, love you guys and the podcast. Well, I think they've already confirmed we are getting all of the game in season one. That's what I thought. But as I'm reading your email, Jess, I'm starting to feel like, yeah, it does feel like they need to pick up the pace of it to get to it. But yeah, we'll see. But she said, I wonder if the jokes were ad-libbed.

[00:51:06] All the jokes were word for word from the game. All the puns. Yeah. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And going back to what somebody said earlier, too, about how much fun it might have been on set. I probably do feel there's some real laughter in that scene with Pedro and Bella at the end. Yeah. Doing that, the diarrhea pun. Yeah. Somehow they got each other giggling. Yeah. Wyman Owen says, absolutely loved it from start to finish.

[00:51:35] So many gameplay scenes. Love them all. I feel an episode like this is to appease the fans. The angry fans. To offset maybe the differences between show and game. I'm enjoying everything HBO's throwing at us, but the fan servicing for this episode was through the roof. The banter between Joel and Ellie is so natural. I'm so glad they included the book of puns. And I think for me, I finally accepted Bella as Ellie. Yeah. Me too. Completely. She did so good with her this episode. Agreed.

[00:52:04] The addition of Melanie Linsky as the leader of the Hunter group. Amazing. And I have an idea of what's under the broken asphalt in the building. Can't wait to see that pop out. All in all, loving the show. Definitely filling the void in my heart after The Walking Dead. Also, last week's was an absolute masterpiece. My comments wouldn't have done it any justice, so I didn't send any in. Can't wait to hear y'all's breakdown and reactions. Look for the light. Thanks, Wyman. Thanks, Wyman. Gillian Moreau says,

[00:52:34] They've done it again. Another fantastic episode. Obviously, nothing could live up to last week, but having this episode focused almost solely on the bonding between Joel and Ellie was perfect. Definitely slower in terms of action and infected, but the episode still flew by for me. And when it was over, I couldn't believe it. The dad jokes were on point. My favourite scene was Joel finally giving in to laughing, and he couldn't stop. We haven't seen him do that yet, post-apocalypse anyways. Those two are making a great team. While I love Melanie Linsky, yellowjacket!

[00:53:04] I must admit that storyline had me pretty confused as to what that group is all about. But, I have faith we'll get to that in the next episode. That floor crumbling in that room did not look like a party I want to be anywhere near. I agree. But obviously, that last scene with the two new peeps, that's got to be the ones this other group are hunting. So I think they'll end up being allies of sorts. Excited we're getting the new episode on Friday so we don't have to compete with Super Bowl shenanigans. Keep up the great work, guys and gals. Loving the coverage. And we love you, Jill.

[00:53:34] We do. Jill doesn't have to worry about Super Bowl because her team's not in it. Oh, that must be a relief for Jill. I'm sure she's glad that you pointed that out. My team is, though, so we're good. Good to know. My local team. Anyway. Let's hear from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve and this is for The Last of Us, episode four. I just finished watching it and, wow, you know, last week's episode was so powerful.

[00:54:03] They really – there was no way they were going to top it. There was no way they were going to come out, you know, better. But it's really good. And seeing Melanie Alinsky was amazing. I haven't seen her anything since Yellow Jackets. And that's really the only thing I've watched her in. But I know she's incredible. So a couple of things. Ellie at the beginning with the gun, I was a little worried. But it looked like she could kind of handle it. And then I'm glad Joel basically kind of taught her here's how you handle the gun and here's how you hold it and that kind of stuff.

[00:54:32] I think that was really, really great. The stuff with Brian was sad. But obviously it had to be done, unfortunately. And that ending, whoosh. Is that Sam and Henry that have found them in this place or what? And they lost the truck early. Does that happen in the game? Do they lose the truck that early? Because you guys made a big deal out of it being the same truck and then having the same clothes on and stuff.

[00:55:00] And now they've lost all the supplies they had. But, yeah, again, another amazing episode. It was fast. It seemed like it was shorter than all the others. But that's okay. They don't owe us a certain amount of time, I think. And can we just put a moratorium on the whole gas thing? Just suspend your disbelief. Gas apparently in these shows lasts forever. And that's just the way it is.

[00:55:26] We're just going to have to admit that and let it go. Let it go, folks. Okay. I'm getting close to two minutes. But the last thing, I watched the preview. And it looks like we can stream it early if you have HBO Max on Friday at 9 p.m. So I know what I'm doing Friday night. Talk to you later. I'm glad they mentioned the gas thing and that it's watered down. And they have to fill up the tank every...

[00:55:56] Yeah. At least they gave it some reasoning. Yeah. Right. They're like, okay, you nitpickers, here. Take that. It still made me question how Fedra has gas, though, unless they're producing their own. Yeah. I would imagine they have a bunch of kids who built a plane and then they kidnapped them and now they're working at some refinery. That one took me a second to figure out what you were referencing. I know. I don't think Lucy's listening to me or she would be laughing. What did you say?

[00:56:26] What did you say? I zoned out. I was trying to look and see if it was a call or an email next. What were you... What was your... Ben said he wonders if... Why Fedra has gas. Oh. I said, I imagine they have a bunch of children who were building a plane and they've kidnapped them and forced them to work at their refinery. Oh, no. I dissociated because of PTSD. Sorry. Yeah, no, I did hear you. I just chose not to engage. No, no, no. Not going to go there.

[00:56:55] And in regards to Steve's comment on the truck, too, the truck actually makes it a lot further in the show than it does in the game. Right. Because in the game, the truck only makes it to Pittsburgh. Oh, really? Well, because they switched the cities. They made Pittsburgh, Kansas City in the show. And the truck only makes it to Pittsburgh in the game. Kansas City. Whereas in the show, because they switched... It's quite west, right? I thought that was pretty far west. Yeah.

[00:57:22] It's a lot greater distance than they make it in the game. All right. Here's Archmaester Rennie. Rennie! Well, once again, this show has come close to home for me. I have spent much of my adult life thinking about the possibility of an apocalypse. But I've always imagined myself to be young, strong, muscular, and capable. When I was 29 years old, I could run 10 miles.

[00:57:52] I could have run up those 33 flights of stairs that Joel makes it up. But when they head up those stairs and Joel says, I'm 56 years old. And that was really meaningful for me because you don't see older characters with any sort of limitations, usually, in apocalypse stories. And Joel is hard of hearing in one ear. He could only make it up 33 flights of stairs before he wears out.

[00:58:21] He can't just go and go like he presumably could have done when he was younger. And it's cool because Pedro Pascal is actually younger than the character he's playing. He's 48. Joel is 56. I'm older than Joel. And so seeing somebody with the vulnerabilities that age inevitably brings on in this show, I find really identifiable.

[00:58:51] And so yet another reason that I'm just really appreciating and enjoying this show and really appreciating and enjoying all the coverage. The after shows have been great. The podcasts have been great. The feedback episodes have been great. Thank you all. Thank you. Oh, thanks, Rennie. Oh, I love Rennie. Yeah. And I totally agree with you. And it's just another way that the show is being real.

[00:59:18] You know, like I said, they pick people who look more like everyday people rather than picking them off the model runway or whatever. And just having them. You actually mentioned this already, Ben. Yeah. Yeah. Like Joel's character, how he's got some issues. Yep. That come with age. As I'm well aware of myself. All right. Me too. I'm super young, so I don't know what you're talking about. She doesn't know. She can't relate. She's just weak. I'm not. I'm not.

[00:59:48] I'm actually 75. People just don't think it because I look so young. All right. Maureen Favo seen lots of discussion on Kathleen, Melanie Linsky, killing the doctor. My take was she had planned on shooting him before being interrupted because of injured and walked back in because of injured and walked back in and killed him. So she wasn't tempted to compromise, give him value again and share. And she revolt may be fighting, may be fighting. However, Fedra was defining human value.

[01:00:18] Can you imagine driving across the I-90s, 80s or 70s without seeing people? Or trucks. Then being Ellie, who through reading has images, but first impression is the reality on this drive. I'm not sure which is more devastating to witness. Listening to the pod right now and at the point where you are discussing confusion of Kathleen's character. Lots of shows that involve traveling are doing this with character intros.

[01:00:43] At first, confusion bothered me, but recently came to conclusion it's very real lifelike. When we meet people when traveling, we decide lots without knowing anything. But what we see and hear them say, our perception changes over time. This whole show is taking that approach, so we have very little info on who we should be cheering or hating, which adds to lots of experience. Poker Face did the same to us last episode. We went through Continuum with Charlie.

[01:01:12] How do you know good guys versus bad guys in the video game? I mean, she's saying the same thing that Eric and Rima were saying, that maybe the idea was to give us a similar experience to what Joel and Ellie had, because they don't know these people and neither do we. And they're dropped in the middle of a story. But I just think if they really wanted to do that, then they wouldn't show scenes from Melanie Linsky's character's point of view and actually have her explain.

[01:01:38] Like, if you watch it twice, you can get the whole story, you know, if you pay attention. And so, to me, that means that they actually did once to get the whole story, but because you have to watch it twice and really pay attention to get it, then it feels like a bit of a weakness in the storytelling. Yeah, I think you're right. I think seeing it from Kathleen's point of view kind of gives you a little bit of insight into her character a little bit more, or maybe even makes you see it from her side. Yeah.

[01:02:09] So that she's not 100% villain of what's going on. Yeah, but I mean, the point, like, people who watch this only once were like, I'm not sure what's going on with him. And then if you watch it twice and really study it, you realize that they overthrew Fedra, that Fedra had some people snitching out her people, and they held them at gunpoint. And now that she and her group have gotten control of this place, they want to go around and punish the people who she calls collaborators.

[01:02:38] And so when you watched it through the first time, it was kind of hard to put that all together, you know. But I just think if the idea was to put us in the exact same position as Joel and Ellie, then they wouldn't have shown any scenes from Kathleen's point of view. They would have just shown people shooting at Joel and Ellie and saying, you know, with trucks going around looking for them and stuff like that. But I don't know. I really think this episode is one of those ones that is going to need the next episode to truly kind of form, if that makes sense. Like, I feel like it's 50% of something.

[01:03:08] I do too. I mean, I think it will definitely help flesh it out. But I do feel like we understand the basics of the situation already. Maybe something will come up that will totally prove that wrong. That's what I think. Yeah. And then she was already planning to kill the doctor and kind of got interrupted and then just went back in and finished the job that she was already going to do. I can buy that. It did seem like she was about to kill him. You think I won't? I'd say she was 80-20. Yeah, right. And then that was the last drill.

[01:03:38] Sometimes I bargain with myself. I'm like, you know, if this bus comes in the next five minutes, maybe I will have chicken for dinner. So maybe she was like, you know what? If this person turns out to be dead, maybe I will kill the doctor. So, you know. Yeah. If something happens that improves my mood, I'll let him live. Yeah. And then somebody's killed and I'll go, fuck that guy. All right. Fuck him. I was just going to say the betting with myself hit so hard, Lucy. I do that too. I do that too. It's dumb, right?

[01:04:07] But you just do it. You're like, yeah, if this happens, then I'll do this. And it's not related at all. But you're like, yeah, sure. That will help me make this decision. Yeah, exactly. I had this thing and it worked pretty well. I had 30 imaginary do the right thing tokens in my head. And every time I was tempted to eat a cupcake, I would be like, okay, I'm spending a do the right thing token. And then I wouldn't eat the cupcake. And it helped. But then I spent them all and now I do whatever I want.

[01:04:36] Yeah, I was going to say, so is it like 30 a day, a week, a month? Lifetime. Like an ever lifetime. Lifetime. That's over now. With me when it hits, it's like if I'm out door dashing because I door dash for side income. And if I'm out door dashing and I get hungry and I decide I want to get takeout just to take home when I'm done, it'll be like, well, I don't know what I want. Okay, whatever the next order I get, wherever they're ordering from, that's where I'm going to go for dinner. If I hit a red light, I will eat a slice of the customer's pizza. If they're all green.

[01:05:06] No, no, no. I never do that. Okay, let's move on. Jess Jones says, oh no, another show where doctors are sorely needed but get killed off needlessly by ruthless tyrants. A very different episode this week, but still really good. That scene with Brian was heartbreaking. Shout out to that actor. Agreed. Yeah, we should have given more credit. He was so good. I didn't know. He was very good. But in this life, you got to do what you got to do. Oh, that turned dark really fast.

[01:05:35] Lots of bonding and learning between Joel and Ellie. Great puns and dad jokes. It runs in your genes. And just like them, I couldn't stop laughing. A classic I hadn't heard or thought of in 30 years. What the fuck is under the floor? Can't wait for the next episode. P.S. I wanted to write something to you guys when The Walking Dead ended, but just didn't get around to it. So here goes. I've been listening since season two of The Walking Dead. I used to write in a lot to Jason and Karen. I even had a couple email convos with Jason about my full name, Jessica Jones, and a love of horror.

[01:06:04] Or, yeah, she's got the same name as the comic book character. And even though sometimes my thoughts sounded crazy, you guys read them, and it helped me tremendously at the time. I was going through a lot back then. And when things got worse and I stopped writing in, I was still a loyal listener and always looked forward to your show. From Karen to Dr. Lucy and all the co-hosts in between, I've been there like a lurking walker, just taking it all in. But I really wanted to say to Jason, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you for achieving your dream of podcasting full time.

[01:06:34] I value your thoughts, insights, and opinions as they're very similar to my own. And I'm so thankful for the community and world you've created. I'm sorry I'm not a Patreon because I'm a broke ass cast member, but I did download and subscribe and rate each podcast show that I watch, which is almost all of them. I told you I watch too much TV. Anyway, as I'm rambling, I just wanted you to know that your wonderful shows have given me more than entertainment over the years. And I thank you and the crew for all you do. Thanks guys and gals. Love Jess. Oh, thank you, Jess.

[01:07:04] That's fantastic. You make me cry. Jess. They keep bombing us with these like random, really emotional thank yous. And it's great, but also it destroys me emotionally, but it's great. But I'm destroyed. I'm so appreciative. This really kind of feeds my soul. So thank you so much, Jess. I did not read that ahead of time, but I very much appreciate it. Glad you're writing back in again. And I presume that means that things are better in your life. I hope so. And I hope to hear from you more. Yeah.

[01:07:32] Ahuva O says, big Walking Dead fan here and first time in writing in about The Last of Us. Honestly, I've been really critical of the show so far. Many parts are well done, but I've either got some weird complex about replacing my favorite show or I'm feeling defensive for The Walking Dead. I'd probably enjoy the show more if people knew how to compliment it without putting down The Walking Dead. Oh, sorry. But since you've asked us to compare... Oh, Ahuva, I am here for this. There's been a lot of setup happening that it feels like we're only just starting the story here in episode four.

[01:08:01] That's not necessarily a bad thing, but now is the first time with the show that I'm actually excited for next week. Finally, we are dropping in on some relevant characters that we know we'll see again. Hopefully all the setup pays off and more in a rewatch, but sitting here week to week, I've been a bit antsy to get started. I did find the first four episodes of The Walking Dead dropped you right into the hospital, Atlanta and the small campsite. Just about all of those episodes were action-packed and built the world through the story instead of taking episodes to fill us in with flashbacks.

[01:08:29] One thing I actually do like in contrast to The Walking Dead is the blurred lines between good and evil. Even when Rick and the gang killed all the saviours at the satellite station, we were then introduced to Negan and his brutality to wash away their sins. This show plays with a more blurred morality. The antagonists seem much more humanized from the get-go, where The Walking Dead would present really bad guys and try to humanize them later. But in The Walking Dead, we are looking at people much closer in time to when society broke down.

[01:08:56] Twenty years later, society doesn't have clear lines of good and evil anymore, so it kind of makes sense. Looking forward to next week's episode, and glad it's coming out sooner, just when I'm starting to like it more. Three mushroom emojis. I'm really glad you wrote that, because I do feel like... We're a bit harsh in the comparisons with The Walking Dead. It's like that meme where you see the guy walking with his girlfriend, but he's got his head looking at the other girl. Yeah. That's us. Yeah.

[01:09:27] Someone make it. Someone make it. But we should be more respectful. The Walking Dead has such a big place in my heart. And there was a Facebook post recently that had, you know, put a thumbs up if you like Joel or a heart if you're Team Rick or something like that. And I was just like, who would I be? Rick. I mean, I love Joel and Ellie, but Rick Grimes has had more time to be a thing, you know? Yeah.

[01:09:56] We're just coming out of our relationship with The Walking Dead. We're not ready to look at the good parts yet. We're focusing on the bad because it makes it easier. So that's where we are. Who knows where our journey of healing will take us next? Joel's a rebound, but he's a good rebound. You know, he might be the one we stick with. I mean, I think it's good to remind ourselves, or for me personally, I'll just speak for my about all the great things of The Walking Dead. And it had such a long history that there were a lot of ups and downs, but we can't forget

[01:10:24] the good stuff, you know? That's what I think. Yeah, I mean, and you kind of touched on it a little bit too, is that it's very hard to compare, especially right now with one being so brand new and the other one being over. But I don't think, I think it's a very strong possibility The Last of Us will never get the time that The Walking Dead did. You know, it's not going to go nearly that long. I mean, we're going to be lucky if we get maybe three seasons out of The Last of Us. And it's also really hard not to compare. Like, we have to. We have this lineage of covering The Walking Dead now.

[01:10:54] This is the new thing that's basically a zombie show, even though they're not technically zombies. Of course, we're going to compare. But I got to try to stay respectful, too. Oh, and thank you, Karen, last week for defending the every time Jason called them zombies, Karen was like, not zombies. Infected. Not zombies. Rinaldi Kalixt. Rinaldi. Rinaldi. This fourth episode was a good episode.

[01:11:22] I do feel like Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey are working extra hard to bring their respective characters to life, which I appreciate. They definitely have great chemistry in this episode. I think I'm starting to feel more comfortable with Bella Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie. I'm still not 100% sold on them as Ellie, and that's holding me back from saying this is a great show so far. But this isn't Ramsey's fault. I guess I'm letting my fan casting dream of Hailee Steinfeld being younger in age so

[01:11:51] she could play Ellie get in the way of fully embracing the Ellie we actually have. I never would have considered Hailee Steinfeld. That's interesting. Regardless of all that, I'm impressed with how hard Bella Ramsey is working to bring Ellie to life by capturing the little nuances of Ellie's mannerisms from the game. Certain scenes with Ellie I've enjoyed a lot, particularly her getting Joel to laugh scene by using her joke book towards the end or her reaction to being in a car for the first time.

[01:12:20] I give credit to their attention to detail when preparing to play Ellie on screen. Pedro Pascal is doing a great job portraying Joel. He makes me feel like Joel from the game is on the screen, even if he looks somewhat different than the game. Pedro Pascal is definitely bringing the duality of Joel that's in the game to the TV screen. Joel's lighter side of expressing his past with Tess and Tommy and believing in the idea of caring for your family, but then the darker, immoral side, admitting to Ellie that he's

[01:12:47] brutally murdered innocent travelers on the road to survive and protect Tommy and Tess. Joel is a complex guy is an understatement for this episode, and Pedro Pascal plays the duality of Joel extremely well. Yeah, so true. And I know that's why they hired Pedro Pascal, because they knew they could have gotten just some tough guy, but they wanted someone who could play the vulnerability and all the things Rinaldi just mentioned. Yeah.

[01:13:17] Good job. All right. Time for a couple more calls. Here's Jaime from Albuquerque. Hey, guys. Jaime from Albuquerque calling on The Last of Us. First, I want to start by saying how cool it was to see, as a father, Joel just kick into dad mode and not only just protect Ellie, but encourage her during that shootout in a time of danger. And he just kicked right into dad mode and was like, you can do this. You're going to be safe.

[01:13:45] And, you know, he needed that to give her that little push to get her to safety so he could do what he needed to do. And I thought that was really neat seeing him just like kind of transform into that and just like take Ellie under his wing. And in one episode, I can already see he's like he's her dad. So that that's really cool to see. And I'm just completely invested now. And then two, once again, they're adding context to Tess's death.

[01:14:10] And what I mean by that is last week, I echo Jason's observation where it was real subtle, but we saw how Joel and Tess were together, if even as friends for over a decade. And that's a big deal. And so this week, what we see now is where Tess, you know, she told him, this is a way to make up for all the shit that we've done.

[01:14:38] We like we get a hint of that where he's, you know, he's he was one of the people on the other side stopping people and he's killed innocent people. And then we see a ruthless kill with that Brian kid. It's a necessary kill, but it's ruthless nonetheless. And so Joel can do bad things. But here's this thing, right, that he's doing for the world, quote unquote. And it's also a big thing to point out that he never let Tess in all this time, even though, you know, they were close.

[01:15:05] But because he has to turn into a dad, part of being a good dad is letting people in like a little bit, right? Somewhat. And so he has to Ellie kind of has like a cheat code with him in that regard, because in the show, she's like a young girl. And once that danger came, it just kicked in and now she's in. And so it's it's cool to see that. And I really enjoyed the episode and I'm really enjoying the show as a whole. So hopefully this one on Friday is really good.

[01:15:34] And thank you guys again. We'll be hearing you. Hey, that's great. Do you guys think they're as closely bonded now as he's saying like father daughter? I think the instincts are there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the instincts are there. Like you like you said, Lucy, I don't think. I don't think father daughter. I don't think they're that level yet. Yeah. Me neither. But but they're I they're closer.

[01:16:05] Yeah. And you know what? And I honestly think switching pits now that I think about this switching Pittsburgh for Kansas City. I think it kind of helps that story, not just in the sake of the landscape that they're shooting in and making it easier and or more believable since we know all the shit that people put out about how Bill and Frank was 10 miles outside of Boston.

[01:16:27] But I think it it adds more context to the fact that it gave them more time to potentially build this bond. Because they spent so much time together getting there. Yeah. Hmm. You know, because I mean, Pittsburgh to get from the Pittsburgh is only a couple hours, whereas, you know, Boston to Kansas City, you're probably looking at with all the stops and everything for fuel. You're probably looking at at least a day or two.

[01:16:57] So it gave them more time to bond and build this this connection by doing by switching the cities. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to the next one. David. I think he said his last name is free us. I've been saying freeze, but here we go. Lucy, Rima, Eric, Jason and Karen. And Ben. Karen, I forgot to mention you last time I called in. I'm OK.

[01:17:24] It's America's toque or beanie or also known as Canada. It's Dave Freeza calling back in. Wanted to thank you for the kind words and the call out at the top of your podcast. And Eric, I'm sorry for forgiving you the feels there, but hopefully you didn't clean off off the highway there and cause you any troubles. Wanted to thank you all and just kind of acknowledge a couple of things here. One related to your show as well as the show that we're watching.

[01:17:53] So it doesn't matter if it's under the comic book covers or The Walking Dead or House Podcastica or this podcast. You guys all, ladies and gentlemen, work really hard to create a sense of community with your listeners.

[01:18:12] And what I love about this community and being one of your audience members is that it's through this communion where Eric mentions his take on his favorite comic books. Or Jason, where you share a little bit in terms of say how it is for you as a father, as a husband, as a human being. Or Karen anecdotally sharing with us a nuance between you and your husband while watching The Walking Dead.

[01:18:40] But it's those moments where we as your audience walk away feeling as though we've got a connection with you. As I was listening to you guys talk about last week's show, it doesn't matter if it was last week and The Two Lovers or this week with our protagonist. Is all of this writing, all of this writing, all of the source material is very intimate and is very much in terms of storytelling that creates a sense of communion with the audience.

[01:19:10] And the same sense of loyalty that you guys have grown with your audience is exactly why we go with you guys and gals to a lot of the source material that you choose. It's compelling to watch these human beings that are being portrayed by incredible actors tell very provocative stories about love, about tragedy, about hardship, about the human condition.

[01:19:37] And so anyways, yeah, just a little bit of a similarity there. Also, one last thing before I leave, Eric and Jason, just to affirm for you. Yes, back in the day when you guys were chatting about American Gods and that scene is not at all was anything sort of the awkwardness was not meant negative. Okay, is I watched two human beings, two guys acknowledge who this is rather graphic. I was like, wow, this is really quite intimate.

[01:20:06] And you guys dove in head first in terms of dissecting and looking at the storytelling, looking at the arts and so forth. So wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Just wanted to be very clear that I admired and was marveling how great of allies you were with your audience, regardless of the communities that we all belong to together or separately. Okay, anyways, signing off for now.

[01:20:33] It's America's Puke, Dave Frise, and can't wait to see where you take us next. Take care. Amazing. Thank you, David. Wonderful voice note. His feedback from last week on episode three, long, long time, really, I wanted to say really got me, like really hit hard in the best way. Like it got me just the same way Eric mentioned it did to him. It got me really choked up.

[01:21:02] And I really appreciated him opening up and saying that. So I wanted to address that, but I won't since he didn't mention my name in the list of cast members. Yeah, so don't say anything about it. Yeah, I won't say anything at all. Thanks, Dave. I love when people speak about the community like that because it's really what I love about doing all this. And I'm glad it actually feels that way to at least some of you guys too. It's great. Yeah. All right.

[01:21:29] Now we have some extra feedback for episode three that I didn't get a chance to do last time. So we'll have a few calls and then we'll do some messages. And yeah, here's, it just said GMAT. GMAT. Well, uh, unbelievable.

[01:21:52] And I just needed to say, I kept turning to my friend going, I thought this was a zombie show with tears streaming down my face. And it was so beautiful. And it makes you realize how important inclusion is. And beyond that, like it gave me hope, like gay, divorced, hate, love.

[01:22:22] And then I see this and I'm like, God damn it. I guess there's fucking hope. It was just, it was, it was beautiful. I don't know. Matt from Boston. Love you guys. Matt from Boston. Oh, Matt. Thanks, Matt. Matt. Yeah, that was, it's quite a hard hitting episode. People responded to it.

[01:22:52] Yeah. It's awesome. All right. Thank you, Matt. Here's Jason from California. It's not me. Hi, this is Jason from California. First time calling and I'm here to ruin the love story. Everyone's watching from this perspective and they can tell he is in love and they can tell he's very happy. But from Frank's point of view, he's a gold digger. Remember, this is the end of the world. His safe zone failed.

[01:23:22] Frank watched the only survivors die on the road. And if he could make it to Boston and if they let him in, he'd be burning bodies and cleaning sewers for ration cards. But on his way, he finds Bill with his own compound, having wine with his steak dinners. Obviously, Frank had to shoot a shot.

[01:23:46] Bill showed vulnerability when he was playing the piano and Frank kissed him and invited him to bed on the first day after only just telling him his name. Frank had one day to seduce Bill or he was back outside. Frank was looking for something to clean so he would have a role that would let him stay. And he said the cliche line, I have never done this before.

[01:24:15] So you don't think about why he's moving so fast. In the game, Frank left Bill because they had nothing in common after their fights. And on the last day, things that they did were the hole Bill dug, piano they played, and the food Bill cooked. Everything else were things that Frank had done that Bill didn't want.

[01:24:43] Frank said he had more good days with Bill than anyone else, but he never said he loved him. Frank's last wish on his last day was to be loved the way he wanted to be, not their entire relationship as it was.

[01:25:01] Now, I might be a cynic, but I was hoping Frank left another letter for Bill or Tess that Ellie would find confessing. But I enjoy telling people the ulterior motives in this story. Love the show. Love the podcast. Don't get bit. Well. Well, well, well. That's certainly a way to look at everything.

[01:25:30] Just a tad bit cynical. That's a perspective. I think, yeah. I think, I mean, it's probably a factor. Like, who knows? You know, I don't know if Frank fell head over heels in love with Bill on first sight. Part of it was how great the setup was. But I do think that he felt for him at least somewhat and that over time, definitely. That's my reading of it for sure.

[01:25:57] Not that he was just like, I don't like this guy, but I'm going to keep pretending, you know? Yeah. Oh, by the end, it was absolutely real. Yeah. I mean, even in the moment, I think there was that spark of attraction there for sure. Because they complement each other really well, you know? And I don't want to say too much about how it goes in the game versus the show, but it's very different. But the theme is still the same. It's all about what is the point of life unless you're enjoying it, you know?

[01:26:27] And that's a theme that's come up in The Walking Dead a lot too. What a great show that was. But anyways, Frank is like, let's dress this place up. Let's have a little joie de vivre and had to bring Bill along with him. But in the game, I guess I'll just say Bill didn't go along with him. So in the show, he does. So I think they, you know, I don't know. I think that's a bit cynical. It's interesting though. I'm glad you called in with that. Yeah.

[01:26:57] All right. Here's Gabby Jade from Texas. Hi guys. This is Gabby Jade from Texas. I've never played the game. I don't know what it's about. I don't want to know what it's about because I want to see the show. I want to be surprised. With this past Sunday's episode, when Ellie and Joel are talking and Ellie asked Joel, are Bill and Frank nice? And Joel says, Frank is.

[01:27:25] And then the scenes with Nick Offerman's character start. I'm assuming that that is Frank because how resourceful he is, how good he is at everything. And then that guy comes into the scene. He falls into the hole and I'm thinking, oh, this is a bad guy. He's going to take everything he has. I'm already thinking wrong. I'm like, you know, there's always betrayal. This guy is going to lose everything. So I'm waiting for the part where it's like, oh, I knew it.

[01:27:54] But then when they exchange names and he asks for his name and he says, Frank, I'm like, wait, what? I'm like, so that's Frank. So then he's not going to do anything. I mean, because if Joel's going to vouch for him or say that, you know, he's a nice guy, then I'm assuming this was probably going to be something good. I mean, I still didn't know if Bill was capable of being a bad guy or not. I have no idea. But that was a good surprise. I was like, oh, OK. I kind of did a little sigh of relief.

[01:28:23] Like, OK, he's not going to take everything from him. But it was a good episode. The fact that I don't know much about the game, I'm really liking it. Where it's going, I'm getting surprised. It's very sad what happened to both of them. I didn't know that it was just going to be like, OK, they're here. OK, they're not. I'm hoping they do flashback scenes during the years while they're there. Maybe when, you know, helping Tess and Joel or something. I don't know. But can't wait for the next episode. Super excited.

[01:28:54] Great point. I didn't even think about that, that we already heard that Frank and Bill were a thing. Here's Lisa Bartley. Hey, wonderful podcast folks. Lisa in North Carolina here again. The first and most important thing I want to say is how hard I cringed at myself, sounding like I was disparaging video games in my feedback call last week. It was gross and obnoxious. And with my husband being a game developer, video games literally support our family. And they take so much work to make. It's insane.

[01:29:23] I see it every day firsthand. The long hours, the deep care and just intense passion these folks have about making everything just perfect for the players. So I wanted to make crystal clear that just because I don't like playing video games doesn't mean I don't get what an important part of our cultural zeitgeist they are and how so many people find joy there. Okay, so the couple things I'm interested in this week and I'll try to run through them really quickly. I think Rima's right that they toned down the video game look of the show compared to the truck driving scene in the first episode where it just felt like a first person view

[01:29:51] from a video game, which I just don't enjoy. But I did not feel that same way with this episode, which I was really glad for. And thinking about the convo y'all had about Bill knowing he's gay or not, I asked a good friend of mine what he thought about it and like when he knew he was gay. And he asked me when I knew I was straight, which I loved so much. I was thinking about how I definitely had crushes on boys like with the butterflies and all the things and didn't have that with girls from a pretty young age. And of course, it's a spectrum. Everyone comes into their own at their own pace.

[01:30:17] But as for Bill, besides the existence of the magazine in the truck, which I think is probably a deliberate tale, people tend to be kind of involuntarily attracted to whomever we're attracted to, even if it's repressed, you know. But I'd absolutely defer to the LGBTQ community on this one. I just thought it made for an interesting conversation. Next, the fight scenes here compared to The Walking Dead as only a TV watcher and not a game player. What I notice is less unrealistically perfect shooting here and also more background noise

[01:30:45] from the bad guys like calling out to each other and stuff. They seem a lot more humanized. No dig on The Walking Dead at all. They just made different choices and they both seem fine to me. Just a different vibe, you know. Also, as a parent, it cracked me up when Ellie said in the truck, I'm not even tired. Then immediately cut to her snoring. And I wonder if every other parent felt the same as me. Like kids feel so strongly that they are not tired. Quick comment on Bella Ramsey's brilliant American accent. It's not distracting to me like it is often with like non-native American English speakers.

[01:31:13] I feel like I can usually hear some slippage of their native accent, but she's really got it down. She's so talented. And speaking of talent, it's so cool how Melanie Linsky is not afraid to take unlikable roles. And they're always so nuanced. Like you're not even sure you want to dislike her and she kind of slowly reveals her character. It's just a beautiful thing to see. Hearing Jason talk this week about the importance of community and connection resonates so much with me. As I said before, one of my favorite parts of watching these shows is the discussion component with you guys.

[01:31:40] You're thoughtful and funny and smart hosts and listeners add so much richness to the viewing experience. So a great big thanks for all the work that I know goes into making this pod. The show doesn't have me totally hooked super intensely yet, but adding the podcast listening experience to the watching experience is really keeping me on board. So again, thank you all for everything you do. And hello to all the other wonderful listeners. Your feedback is so interesting and thought provoking. Take care, everybody. Thanks, Lisa. Wow.

[01:32:08] We pride ourselves on keeping people watching shows they're not into. And she's right about Bella Ramsey's accent, too, because I guess I mentioned earlier how I watched this episode with my mom and I watched it for the second time. And we watched the behind the scenes stuff afterwards. And when they interviewed Bella Ramsey and she started speaking, she's like, wait, she's British. Yes, she's British. All right. Just a couple of messages. Jody Murrell says, my two cents about episode three.

[01:32:35] Nick Offerman's giggle over the strawberry was like a tiny slice of heaven. Oh, David Nygaard says, I just listened to your wonderful podcast of episode three. I'm so happy to hear I wasn't the only one who loved it. I actually watched it three times over the week, something I have never done. What surprised me was that nobody mentioned the Linda Ronstadt song. I grew up listening and enjoying music with my family. And this song certainly struck a chord. It is such a beautiful and perfect song that they chose. I have listened to it repeatedly since and tear up every time.

[01:33:05] I believe that music and love make life worth living. Thank you, guys. I didn't know that song. I don't know if I knew it. I must have heard it when I was a kid. I'm pretty sure I brought it up because I mentioned how I knew the song. And when Frank started playing it, he was butchering it. That's right. Bill stepped in and started playing it properly. Thanks, David. All right. More calls. Here's Robin Springer. Hey, y'all.

[01:33:35] Good morning. It's Robin. Well, I lived through it. I have to say I started crying when long, long time threw me ferociously back to my 17-year-old self. When I vowed I would never listen to that song again. What a story. What a story. I cried through the whole thing.

[01:33:58] And, in fact, I had to pause every once in a while to pull myself together just right from the first few notes of Bill singing and playing the piano. It just – his almost – his profound, almost kind of horrifying vulnerability was just amazing to me.

[01:34:21] That he could have those two sides, the survivalist side and the lonely, vulnerable side so beautifully encapsulated in that one character. Just – as you can see, I still – after having watched it a couple days ago, I'm still sort of without words.

[01:34:44] I just loved the way the whole episode showed the long-term love and the way it is when you've been married, you know, or together. I've been married 38 years, and I recognize so much of the love between them and how the living for the other person gives your life purpose. I was so afraid during the whole thing that Bill wasn't going to have a happy ending. And then it turned out that he did have a happy ending of Thelma and Louise.

[01:35:12] He's – that is the happy ending, ending when it's impossible to go back to the way things were. Also, I felt after I thought about it a little bit that Frank was a little bit scary the way he manipulated the situation. You know, a meal and then I'll leave, a shower and then I'll leave. Oh, let's have – you know, we'll have sex and I'll teach you some stuff, but then I've got to stay a few days.

[01:35:37] I really – for a little while I was a little bit scared that things weren't going to turn out the way they should for Bill. But also, some other things, Ellie cutting open the infected. Now she knows what's inside her. That was really quite an amazing scene. Ooh, I didn't think about it that way. She's really a – I don't know. I don't even know the word for her either. She's really got a lot going on in her mind all the time.

[01:36:05] And now she has a gun. Yay. Who knows what's going to happen with that? I'm not a game player, so everything that happens is new to me. I'm definitely, desperately staying away from spoilers and anything that could spoil it for me. And then, of course, you know, Joel building that little memorial for Tess with the stones. Such a beautiful moment there.

[01:36:31] And seeing Tess again, so young and beautiful with her shiny hair at the beginning of the time. And then, you know, making her plans with Frank and, you know, just being so young and beautiful. And then realizing at the end that Joel, I think, really did love her the way she loved him. But he was just unable to show it. But anyway, like I said, I lived through it.

[01:36:59] It was a tough one, but totally beautiful. Looking forward to the podcast. I'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye. And so the backlash begins. We're anti-Frank now. Sneaky, sneaky Frank. I think she's right that Joel, well, Joel clearly cared a lot about Tess. And it was this week's episode, right, where he called her family. So, yeah. Yes. Yeah. And now he's doing this because he promised her he would.

[01:37:29] He's taking care of Ellie. All right. Here's Jim Peet. Hey, guys. This is Jim from Raleigh calling in for The Last of Us. Just a real quick story about episode three that I just have to tell.

[01:37:45] And it just resonates with me is that, you know, sometimes these shows, these movies, these pieces of entertainment that we watch for joy and maybe to learn something. But every once in a while something transcends just the show experience. And episode three did that for me.

[01:38:10] What's interesting is after watching it now four times crying through each episode is that I never really thought about the LGBTQ piece of it until the reflection after I'd watched it twice.

[01:38:26] And the only reason why I mention it is because I think being a father of two awesome kids, both very different, who I hope over the course of my life I've taught to have acceptance. And I've always wanted them to be whoever it was they meant to be as long as it was rooted in good moral judgment.

[01:38:52] While they're different, there's obviously similar threads between the two of them. But, you know, while my daughter is definitely almost like a mirror image of me in a lot of ways, my son has a lot of the same traits. Of course, he's my son. But, you know, he definitely has different twists. And as I was watching this episode, I just I remember the second time that I watched it, I had this this fear.

[01:39:20] I didn't know how he would take it. I didn't know that he would even love it. And I think growing up in the United States today, it's tough trying to get through as a male these macho stereotypes and this stuff that hits you left and right. If you're not this way, then you're wrong.

[01:39:44] And, you know, as much as I've taught my kids to, you know, Jason, you mentioned in another podcast having one fist closed and one fist open. I've tried to teach my kids a similar sort of mentality of just always having that openness. Have your core beliefs, but always have an openness to understand that others are different and to be not only OK with it, but to understand it and to always try to learn more and to always try to understand more.

[01:40:14] My son's still going through that process. And watching this episode, episode three, I kept thinking to myself, I do not know how he's going to take it. And when he called me expressing the same exact emotion that I was, I realized that this is the kind of TV show that can not only entertain, not only bring us to tears, but it can. Open up our minds and our hearts by accident.

[01:40:45] Even though I think it was on purpose. All right, I'm going to end there. Can't wait to listen to the podcast and keep up the great work. On to the next piece. It's a relief. The son liked it. Yeah. Yeah, you never know for sure. No. My son, he didn't watch the whole thing because he has watched every episode, but he didn't watch all of this one.

[01:41:13] I think I didn't even really show it to him because I just thought he would be really bored with a romantic thing, you know. But he did watch like the last half and maybe I should show him the whole thing. Maybe I didn't give him enough credit, but he didn't seem to have any reaction one way or the other to like the gender of the couple. It was just more like it's people in love. That's really good. All right. Thank you, Jim.

[01:41:43] That was great. A couple more calls. Here's Randy. Hey, cast of us. It's Randy with two points. I was surprised to find I wasn't fearful of Frank when we first met him. Had this been the walking dead, I would have been suspicious that he was the leader of a nefarious group who call themselves the moles and tunnel under communities and pop up in holes, infiltrate, make everyone fall madly in love with them and show them what it really means to be alive.

[01:42:11] And eventually leave and bring the audience's heart. I'm not crying. You're crying. Secondly, I want to say, hi, Karen. On behalf of all the other listeners, you've been missed on this podcast. Jason, Lucy, and the other hosts are great, but their water conservation knowledge is severely lacking. They've basically been signing off every episode with, remember, you should shower five times a day.

[01:42:41] You should really talk to them. Randy. All right, thanks, guys. Don't get licked. Bye. That is amazing. Yeah. And leave your faucets on, everyone. It's no problem. Oh, yeah. I'm currently in the bath. Like, I'll have a shower after this as well. Yeah. My hose is going in the backyard, just right into the cement. I'm filling up my neighbor's pools. They don't want you to. Yeah, they don't want me to.

[01:43:10] Here's Mike Caruso. Hey, guys. Mike from Cincinnati here. And as I was working today, I got to thinking about The Last of Us and The Walking Dead and kind of a way that they sort of connect a little bit. And one of the things that I really liked that a lot of people hated was when Kirkman came forward and long after the comic had ended and said that the origin of the virus was a space spore. And a lot of people thought that was tongue in cheek.

[01:43:40] Me personally, I actually kind of bought it because I always thought the story wasn't about how the virus started, which a lot of people tended to focus on towards the beginning of the story. But it was about the characters and how they handled it. Right. And what it did to them. And I just thought saying that it was a space spore just kind of eliminated all of that, you know, government conspiracy, you know, experiment gone wrong. Like, blah, blah, blah. All that gets eliminated when you say it's a space spore.

[01:44:09] Nobody's responsible for it. It just falls out of the sky and the dead start waking up. But seeing that it's a spore. Does that imply that it's fungus? And if so, does that mean that the zombies of the Walking Dead universe are also infected and not actually zombies or Zeds? I don't really think that. But I just thought it was food for thought and might be interesting to think about and maybe blow a couple lines.

[01:44:37] But I'm really loving the coverage so far. I'm happy to be finally caught up. I was a little behind and all caught up now. And I'll be watching and listening with you guys every week. Keep up the good work, guys. Thanks. Awesome, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Mike called in a lot on Cobra Kai. I don't know. They called it a virus. You know, that's what Jenner called it in the first season. And the virus is not a fungus. I don't know. I feel like we need to have another podcast on whether or not there are actually zombies in The Walking Dead now.

[01:45:07] There's no zombies in The Walking Dead. They're just infected. You heard it, Eric. Let's phone up. Let's get our knowledge together. All right. Nathan Eshelman. On the last episode, on the last of us, episode three, feedback episode this week, someone mentioned a life in the day. And I thought I'd share what that means, what that was. It's a reference to an episode of the sci-fi original series, The Magicians. Yeah, I was one of the people that didn't know what that was in reference. Not SpongeBob. Which is what I thought it was. Not SpongeBob.

[01:45:38] Long story short, for magical purposes, two queer characters have to solve a puzzle that takes them years. Throughout that time, they grow old and have a family together. When they finally solve the puzzle at the end of their lives, time resets. They go back to being young guys in their 20s again. But they've retained all of their memories from a lifetime together. Hence, a life in a day. Oh, that's cool. That's lovely. It's widely considered the best episode of the show and one of the best examples of queer representation on television.

[01:46:07] It's my personal favorite episode of anything ever. Wow. I'm going to have to look for that episode now. Yeah, that looks pretty great. Yeah. Wow. Thanks for clearing that up, Nathan, because I wasn't familiar with the reference either. No, me neither. That's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, Nathan. Okay, we have one more call and also a message from Ben Rios. It's kind of a long call, seven minutes and 36 seconds, but I think it's worth playing because it has something to say about episode three that I thought was pretty important. So here we go.

[01:46:38] Thank you very much for making this podcast. I enjoy listening to your talk about many TV shows over the years. I had to stop a long, long time yesterday. I started watching it with my wife to explain the complications before showing it to our teenage daughter. Teenage daughter walked in while we were watching it, and just when the two men met, I stopped and I started talking to her about suicide and death.

[01:47:09] It was a 45 minute long conversation. Of course, when you talk to your children, there's really no way to have it all pre-thought out. Of course, it takes sideways turns when they don't quite understand or they're defiant during the conversation. I think a couple of really good things came up. One, there's a difference between being overwhelmingly sad and terminally ill.

[01:47:39] Terminally ill means your body is going out. It's gone. You have days. You have weeks. You don't have any way to live on except pain. That is different. That is a different type of reality you're looking at. Being overwhelmingly sad where you cannot conceive of breathing happens many times in your life if you're lucky or not lucky. But also it can come when you just don't understand the loss.

[01:48:10] It is an injury. It's an injury. The overwhelming sadness is an injury like breaking your leg, like having an organ torn out, that you are getting a gunshot. It takes about six months to a year to recover from something like that. Unfortunately, I've known and actually my daughter's known.

[01:48:33] She's broken her leg and you cannot walk for six months or your muscles atrophy and you're just not the same. So again, two different ways, two different suicides took place on this television program. One, the person who was at the end of life incurable. The other person who was overwhelmingly sad.

[01:49:00] Now, one is understandable because you are dying. The other, you have to rail against. It is not okay. It's not okay to do it just because there's two homosexuals that are together and he doesn't deserve to live or something along that line. Or they're old and that old person doesn't deserve to live. That is wrong. So there's two different aspects of that I will address in a moment.

[01:49:26] But talking to a teenage girl is important that when she has her heart broken or loses the job or all these other things, when you're young and the teenage brain is so torn with all those emotions, that you don't give in to those mood swings. And that's what really is the dangerous part of showing this to a teenager. As I said, it's a justified suicide, double suicide.

[01:49:56] And they're cute. And it was needed for this particular story because we didn't want these characters in the story. But it was done in such a way that it becomes a proverb. It becomes so ingrained like, oh, this can actually work as a justification for this going forward. So no. Yes, it's a dumb video game. Yes, it's just a dumb TV show.

[01:50:20] The problem is that it's escalated itself because of its quality and also because of its uniqueness. My daughter or my son, who it's not okay if their partner dies, that they don't need to continue living. So I do not know the age of you, but I'm in the line. I wouldn't call it a sweet spot between having to deal with this with a child, but also have to deal with this with losing one parent at a time.

[01:50:50] Now, I say parent just because they were a couple and they were together for many years. You know, you're together 20, 30 years. I lost my stepmom. And unfortunately, most widowers do not live more than 12 months past the loss of their partner. Now, this is a real thing. And I did not, you know, I tried my best to engage my father.

[01:51:19] But unfortunately, what he said out loud and what a lot of people feel is I do not want to continue on. And what it is, it's not like this, like what happened here, drinking the tainted wine. It's what I've seen is just not taking care of her body, not caring and just not wanting to go on. It is hard to recover.

[01:51:39] And unfortunately, I have had to have the similar thing in my own life that my wife has, you know, had cancer and I wanted to curl up in a ball. It was very overwhelming. I have two children. I couldn't. But it was part of me in the back of my mind had that like curl up in the ball moment.

[01:51:59] And, you know, fortunately or unfortunately, you turn off your emotions and you go through the things you need to go through because you have kids to take care of and everything else that goes on in your life. And that my point is that if you have a transcendent story, it's fine that this goes on.

[01:52:22] But the discussion here is also how else could the dying man who has terminal disease have helped the spouse? Because this is something that, you know, I have another friend who had the same thing. His mother had a terminal, you know, for 10 years and the father's 12 months in ended up in the hospital.

[01:52:48] You need to help the surviving partner go on that, you know, what to do in your hopes for them. Now, this is aspirational 100 percent. And it's part of the discussion here of hopefully my daughter does not have to deal with suicidal thoughts or the heartbreak that would bring it. But also, I know that I did lose my father because, you know, he did not last more than a year after the loss of his partner.

[01:53:17] And I hope that, you know, you don't lose your parents one at a time within a year. And I hope that your teenagers are happy and well adjusted going forward. But, yeah, double suicides in a story that's told so many millions of times to such a wide variety is very much like giving the Chekhov's gun that, you know, hopefully that this won't go off.

[01:53:48] Well, again, I just wanted to share my experience rewatching this with or trying to or talking to my daughter about trying to rewatch this program. Thank you very much. So.

[01:54:06] He wrote a message to you as I'm reading it, I realize it's it's kind of the same thing he just said, you know, about how if you have a profound sadness that the cure for it is time, that life will make sense sometime in the future. That's why we need to rail against someone setting a quote, beautiful example of giving up. And I personally, I had a hard time seeing that whole thing as just a cut and dried happy ending.

[01:54:32] I also don't know if I agree with Ben that it's absolutely the right thing not to do that, you know, but I do not for Bill. Oh, what I'm trying to say that Ben was that Bill was wrong. You know, I don't know if I would say that either, but I do think it's important to take a look at that. The idea that this could seeing this could sort of give people the idea that, oh, wow.

[01:55:00] If I had a profound sadness in life, then a really poetic, beautiful way out of it would just be to kill myself. And I that that's what really got me. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I want to encourage everyone. If you had something like this happen to give yourself some time to heal from it and see if you can move on. You know, that's what I would want to encourage people to do. No. And I think listening to that whole thing, like he he's absolutely right in the sense that this was a conversation he should have had with his daughter to to encourage that.

[01:55:27] Like if you have motive, like just because the loss of a partner doesn't necessarily mean that you should give up every everything else. And I think that was an intelligent conversation that he had. But on the other side of that, too, I think from a storytelling perspective and also looking at the environment that this story is being told in is a completely different element to that.

[01:55:51] Again, not saying what Bill did was right or wrong, but just looking at it from a storytelling perspective, I can I can kind of see it. Yeah. I mean, one difference is that pretty much everyone's dead. Exactly. Not only are you left without your partner, but you're left without everyone else, too, except for bandits. Yeah. I mean, this is this is a man in Bill that literally they had no children together. They're not caring for anybody else other than themselves. Yeah. He really had nothing. His life factors. His life, in essence, was over at that point.

[01:56:22] So, yeah. But I completely understand where Ben is coming from, too, with everything that he said. Absolutely. Yeah. And especially if you have kids like I get it, man. You don't want to encourage your kids to think that this is something they should ever do. You don't want to put it. I don't want to encourage my kids. Yeah. I would say that Bill had a choice. And he made a choice and he made an informed decision about his life based on the situation in which he was going to be living in after Frank had passed away.

[01:56:51] He had no community of support. He was old. I'm not saying all old people should kill themselves. That is not what I'm saying at all. But I'm saying he had the choice of choosing what he felt to be a good death and he chose to take it. I think that is very different from encouraging people with what Ben, I think, terms profound sadness to live. And I think what you say, Ben, is right. That, you know, breaking your leg and walking on it is an injury.

[01:57:18] And depression and suicidal ideation are also injuries. But what I would say is you can go into hospital and you can get your leg treated. Not everywhere is a supportive of people treating severe mental illness. And I think speaking as someone who has had some experience of being at the very bottom of that, it is very difficult. And I don't judge or I don't know. I think suicide is a complex issue.

[01:57:45] I don't think it is something that people should do if they can help it. But I don't think it is a moral obligation on our part to model a life in which suicide is some kind of abhorrence. Like, I just don't think it is. I think people have decisions and they have choices to make. And in terms of modelling good examples of queerness on screen,

[01:58:11] I've been thinking about this a lot since last week, actually, because I've been thinking a lot about the bury your gaze trope. And I think what the difference is, is we can say that bury your gaze isn't a thing or it's not as much of a thing as it used to be. And that's true in some ways. In some ways, we are getting better at avoiding those tropes. But what we are still not good at is allowing queer lives to be lived on screen. We're not good at allowing people to claim that space and to see good, healthy examples as the norm.

[01:58:37] Exactly what you're saying, Jason, about modelling good behaviour and good standards from the next generation upwards. And I think that's where this episode really came into its own, is it allowed us to see examples of both good life and death on the terms of the people involved in it and not serving a bigger agenda. So I don't know that I entirely agree with what Ben is saying there. I certainly would hope that people watching this wouldn't take it as guidance on what to do

[01:59:06] or a suggestion that suicide is in any way the best way out. But I think that we need to be very careful when we talk about things around suicidal ideation and how we depict it in terms of its impact and in terms of what it does. I don't think this was a dangerous episode to watch. I don't think it sets up unrealistic expectations. But that is my two cents. And it was definitely an interesting call to listen to and to hear Ben's thoughts on that

[01:59:32] and how you would approach that with children, which is not something I have ever had to do. So I don't suppose I can really speak to that. So yeah, feel free to cut all of that. No, I'm glad you said what you had to say. Yeah, I think this is an area where we're going to have to pretty much disagree, which is fine. That's one of the things we do pretty good on this podcast. We do. One of the things that really bothered me profoundly in The Walking Dead was when Andrea left Beth,

[02:00:01] who was suicidal, alone with a knife. Oh, that was so dumb. And that just turned me off of Andrea for good. I also know there was some movie with, I think, Phoebe Cates, what was it, where they killed themselves in a garage by leaving the exhaust on back in the 80s. And it was heavily criticized because it looked like it was glorifying suicide.

[02:00:23] And I think you could absolutely say if there's an episode like this where a man who's healthy kills himself and it's considered a happy ending, that is a glorification of suicide. And I think it could be dangerous. So that's why it bothered me. I think you're absolutely right that this show depicted lives well lived of two gay men. But I can't stand behind the idea that one of them who was healthy killing himself was just a straight up happy ending.

[02:00:51] That just doesn't fly with me. On the other hand, I also think that it is his choice to make. And to me, it's just a sad choice. That's all. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. He has agency in this, you know? Yeah. As does anyone who kills themselves. Well, you then get into issues of how much your mental illness is toying with your ability to make comprehensive decisions. That's true, yeah. So yeah. For sure. It's a big issue.

[02:01:22] Yeah, it is. Not to be covered in the last three months. No, I know. So how about them eagles? Yeah, I know. Super Bowl. Or chiefs, depending on who you're rooting for. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that was a very emotional call. And I think he's had a lot of life experience that really triggered him. And I can totally understand that. Yeah. But I want to thank him and everybody else for writing in, calling in, as usual. Thanks, everybody. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

[02:01:52] If you want to write in or leave us a message, you can find out all our contact information at thecastofus.com. Pretty nifty that we got that URL. Yeah, that must mean that we're the official cast of us. That's what I think it means. I like to think so. And while you're on there, you can check out our other shows. Of course, we've got some good stuff coming up, too. Mandalorian starts pretty soon.

[02:02:15] But I thought we'd take the opportunity to mention a show that's not on Podcastica, and that is Ben's podcast, Wilhelm. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how to find it? Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so my podcast, Wilhelm, which is a movie and television podcast in which I've interviewed. I've been doing it for almost 10 years now. It's been a couple different names over the course, but now it's in its final form, as I call it. Interviewing people from the entertainment industry, like celebrities, actors, actresses, producers, directors.

[02:02:45] And then there's Top 5 as well, where I invite people on, and we take a topic, and we pit out our Top 5 from that topic. Jason, you and I have done a couple episodes, like most influential movies. You, me, and Kristen did Top 5 movies and television shows from 2022. We did our favorite Steve Martin movies. Favorite Steve Martin films. I know we're going to be doing Robin Williams a little bit later on in the year.

[02:03:13] Eric's going to be joining me in the next couple weeks to talk about our Top 5 favorite Mel Brooks projects. Since that's coming up on History of the World Part 2 is going to be releasing soon. Oh, wow. So I figured that's good timing for that. But yeah, that's a podcast I've been doing for a long, long time. A bunch of podcastica people have been on it as well, and I'm sure they'll be on it in the future. Best place to find it. Social media links, where to subscribe. Everything is just WilhelmPodcast.com. Excellent.

[02:03:43] Why is it called Wilhelm? So, I've had to explain this to a couple people, and I'm totally fine doing it because I like it. If you are, I wanted to name it something that was related to movies, but something that hasn't been done before, something original. If you're familiar with the Wilhelm scream. Aha, I wondered. Oh!

[02:04:07] Which is something you can find in so many movies and television shows from Star Wars to, you know, Lord of the Rings. It's been in so many things. So I was like, well, why not just call it Wilhelm? And I did my research. No other podcasts are called it. And the domain was available, which was important. Amazing.

[02:04:26] So, I called it Wilhelm, and I've been running with it ever since, and now everything from the podcast to the Instagrams to the socials to my personalized license plate on my car is branded with Wilhelm. Amazing. It's fun. I like that. You need to get a horn that makes the scream when you hit the horn. That would be amazing if I could do that. If I had a Tesla, I could. I was literally going to say, if you had a Tesla, you could figure that out.

[02:04:55] I think they turned it off. Oh, that sucks. We had the law crack down on them. Well, yeah, check that out, definitely. And next episode of this podcast will be The Last of Us Season 1, Episode 5, Endure and Survive. What we're all trying to do. And this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Deb Fowler, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash jasoncabassi. So thank you to Deb.

[02:05:19] Deb gets to listen to this podcast without all the annoying ads because she pledged at least $2 a month. And you can do that too. Be like Deb. Be like Deb. All right, that is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Jess Jones. Bye.