586: "Seed" (TWD S3E1 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmmmm. The Cast of Us. Maybe we'll be here in a few days. There's no time for a picnic. No, but it's time to get the house in order. What do you think I'm doing? Your absolute best. Don't patronize me. I'm not.

[00:00:13] I'm just saying, the baby is about to be here and we need to talk about- About what? Things. We've been avoiding the sun for years. It's almost time for the baby. I'm not going to be a mother. I'm not going to be a mother.

[00:00:22] I'm not going to be a mother. I'm not going to be a mother. I'm not going to be a mother. I'm not going to be a mother. I'm not going to be a mother. I'm doing stuff, Lori. Thanks. Jesus. Isn't that enough?

[00:00:34] The Last of Us, a podcast dedicated to the shuttle human. Is that hence, welcome to the show? Yes. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is the cast of us, episode 586. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, season three, episode one, seed. Exciting.

[00:01:30] It's not supposed to be that happy. Seed! Yay! It's so fun. Yay! It's a laugh a minute. There are some light moments in this one. Sure. So, a couple of announcements before we get started.

[00:01:43] The meetup in Glasgow, we figured out a place to have the meetup and a time or at least a date. And it's going to be with me and Lucy and Peter and Karen and David on Wednesday, July 17th in Glasgow at the DRAM.

[00:02:02] Yeah, DRAM, formerly Ishgabah, but DRAM of late. What part of town? It's in the West End. It's just off of Charing Cross and it's very near subway stations. So it's easy to get to if you're coming into the city center. Yeah.

[00:02:17] So now you guys have a place and a time to be there. So I hope anyone who is thinking about coming will plan to do that. I'm going to put up an event on our Facebook group, Podcastico Facebook group, where people

[00:02:28] can get more details and you can RSVP if you want. So look for that very soon. Hopefully by the time you're hearing this it'll be up. Yay! I'm excited. Yeah, I mean there's been a few people who said they're coming.

[00:02:40] Even if no one comes, it'll just be me and you and Peter and Karen and David. That'll be fun. Yeah, I'll drag a couple of... I still know at least two people in Glasgow that I'm not related to. So yeah, I'll bring a crowd.

[00:02:52] You can bring your relatives too. Yeah sure. No. My mom's the only one that showed up. And then I wanted to also mention that Lucy and Peter have... Well I think by the time you're hearing me they will have recorded the first episode

[00:03:09] of their new Bear podcast, Let It Rip? Let it Rip! Let it Rip! When are you letting it rip? Like when's it going to be? Hopefully early next week. Early next week. Yeah, hopefully Monday. We'll see how we do with the editing.

[00:03:22] It turns out producing a podcast with your other half is quite difficult. It's not actually that difficult. We decided to set ourselves the challenge of recording some cooking first of all. So we'll see how that goes.

[00:03:35] We managed to condense it into a five minute bit so fingers crossed. So fun. Yeah, yeah. We made some good pasta so... Are you going to keep doing that potentially? I think so. I think so.

[00:03:46] I don't know if we'll do it every week but as much as we can I think it would be fun to. I'm going up to... My son is visiting his aunt or my aunt actually in Fort Bragg which is northern California a couple hours north of me.

[00:03:59] And so I'm going up there to pick him up tomorrow and there's this great place called Roy's Chicago Dogs that has Italian beef sandwiches. And it's the best I've had in the Bay Area so I'm totally gonna go up early and get one of those.

[00:04:14] We've currently got like a big bit of beef sitting in our freezer that we need to do something with. We picked up last weekend and we're like yeah so that might be my Sunday. We might be making beef sandwiches on Sunday. We'll see.

[00:04:27] If you're going to be doing cooking in the Bay Area you've got to make that sandwich at some point. We do. We do. We started really easy with the spaghetti and now I'm like no, do something more complicated so we'll see. That's fun.

[00:04:37] So anyway go to podcastica.com if you're interested in hearing Lucy and Peter's podcast. I can't wait to listen to it myself. And with that let's get into The Walking Dead season 3 episode 1, Seed. What did you think of it watching it now after all this time?

[00:04:52] Oh this is like the show at its best. There was an article I think on the AV club recently about like what is your favorite season of your favorite show and why is it season 3?

[00:05:02] And I think there's a little science behind like season 3 is usually the sweet spot for a show. If a show makes it that far then it's probably hitting its stride. Exactly. So yeah it's great. It's fantastic. It's a great season opener. It's everything you want it to be.

[00:05:18] I'm almost worried I don't have enough to say about it because I'm just like yeah it's great. It's really good. I thought it was cool. Remember that one part? It was fine. All those bits were really great. Yeah. Cool. I loved it more than I thought.

[00:05:30] I remembered this episode being good but mostly I just remembered the opening scene which was amazing. But it was more emotional of an episode than I remember because of how the episode was made.

[00:05:42] But also I just felt nostalgic watching it more than I have with any of the ones we've watched before. I feel like I remember watching this as it came out. I feel like season 1 I binged for sure like on one weekend and then season 2 I think I

[00:05:57] was vaguely…maybe it had just started and I kind of caught up halfway through but this I remember. I think my friend Gillian came over and we like watched it together on a projector that we had set up in our old flat 12 years ago. Yeah.

[00:06:11] It did make me very nostalgic as well. It did too. Event TV. Who knew? I mean I think…I really think this episode feels like more like The Walking Dead as we think of it than seasons 1 and 2 did.

[00:06:27] It's so weird to say because everyone looks back so fondly on season 1 and 2 but there's things that happen in this episode with the characterizations and the tone and the show is settling into what The Walking Dead became in a lot of different little ways so it feels

[00:06:41] more like the show to me. It's almost like…yeah…season 1 and 2 are like a prologue. Yeah. This is where we're into it now. This is happening. And the heart that was in this episode I feel like wasn't really there in The Walking Dead before.

[00:06:56] It was more bleak and now this episode had a lot of heart. So yeah, I loved it. I thought…I usually have timeline but I thought it would be interesting to do timeline before we talk about the episode because we're coming from a season break.

[00:07:11] So this episode is set on day 294 of the apocalypse so about 210…no 230 or so days since Rick woke up. So for context, season 2 ended on day 83 so 211 days have passed which is about 30 weeks. So Laurie's about 34-35 weeks pregnant here. I know.

[00:07:35] According to the wiki this is June roughly. We're now getting into the point in the timeline where other things in The Walking Dead universe are happening and being slotted in. So if we take the wiki timeline to be canon, one month earlier Negan's Here's Negan

[00:07:52] arc concluded so the Saviors are somewhere being started up at this very point. They're about a month old. On day 224 so two and a half months before the Commonwealth was established. So Yumeko's brother Tomy has lied about his job and been assigned to be a cake baker

[00:08:11] and Maxine slash Stephanie has gotten her role as Pamela Milton's assistant. Interestingly the Commonwealth was established on my birthday. I didn't know that. 5th of April, Commonwealth Day. And also in this period Woodbury is established and Dwayne has been bitten and Morgan has

[00:08:25] started to lose it a little bit. So a lot has happened in the wider universe as well coming into this. That's interesting. I can't believe that much time has passed. That is a weakness of this episode in my opinion that they were going around in circles this

[00:08:41] whole time. Yeah if we're to believe the timeline they've been going around in circles for seven months. Yeah that doesn't make any sense. I would say the episode does…it pays its dues in trying to make us understand and believe why but I'm still a bit like…

[00:08:56] It feels Fear the Walking Dead to me. Yeah a little bit. Also that they've not noticed the prison which feels even stupider when you look at the end of season two and it's like… It's right across the river.

[00:09:06] But you said, you know, you pointed out that didn't look like anything like the prison ended up looking like. No maybe it was another one. So my headcanon is that's a whole different prison.

[00:09:16] I think they hint later in the season that the prison was so overrun it couldn't…nothing could be done with it. I wonder if it's as the group gets better they're more able to come back. Oh yeah. You could say that too.

[00:09:28] But they don't read it like that. They read it as Rick being like, oh my god there's a prison. It just does look like a different place too. But I mean the thing about the herds where they're looking at the maps and they're blocked off.

[00:09:40] It felt like Fear the Walking Dead did a lot where there's this some abstract thing that's off screen that's preventing you from getting somewhere and it's a little dubious. You know they did that so much in Fear and then to know that it was for that long and

[00:09:53] then for the rest of the series that never really happened quite like that. I mean there were herds sometimes getting in the way but not to the point where they were trapped in this one location you know.

[00:10:02] So I feel like the writers realized, oh maybe that wasn't such a great idea. And the timing is…I don't know. I guess I'll talk about the cold opening because I feel like that's the thing everyone remembers about this episode because it's brilliant.

[00:10:16] It's a really good bit of screenwriting in that nothing is said. But there is this moment where they sort of…I think Laurie's bump is the time reveal. This is how much time has passed. But there are some other clues like Herschel looks more haggard.

[00:10:31] I feel like Rick should have had more of a beard at this point. He still looks a bit too well groomed but maybe they've found a razor. And I suppose the confuser that the producers will have had to deal with as Chandler Riggs

[00:10:44] is clearly two or three years older than he was in season two. He's shot up a little bit. So I think they're relying on Laurie's pregnancy to kind of reveal the time that has passed. But it is a little like, really? That long? Really? Seven months? Oh wow.

[00:11:01] And especially what I hate…so not only that maybe I'll get all the negativity out at the beginning here but that you know it's ridiculous that they've been going around in circles for seven months but also that Rick and Laurie's relationship seems to

[00:11:17] be like maybe a week or two after we saw them last as far as where they would have been emotionally you know? Not seven months. Like if they're still that bad seven months later then she's like, you know we really should talk.

[00:11:33] I'm like, you didn't talk for seven months. Come on. I can kind of believe it to be honest. Like I genuinely like Rick is…he's bad in this episode in terms of their relationship. Like he's…I felt very sorry for Laurie in this episode.

[00:11:48] Like I find that really hard to watch but I could…something so fundamental breaks between the two of them in the season two finale and I do sort of wonder you're suddenly in this really claustrophobic group of people where you're literally just every day trying

[00:12:01] to find somewhere to survive. There's not really time to talk or to kind of address that in a healthy way because there's no safe space or safe basis to do that. Well, they have to sleep every night you know? I mean I don't know.

[00:12:12] There's got to be time to go to the bathroom. There's time to eat. There's got to be time to have a five minute chat. Well, I don't know. I kind of buy it. I do buy it.

[00:12:21] I can buy Rick being the kind of person who just shuts off entirely. Like I think there's something in Rick that's very broken at this point. Absolutely and I'd buy that too and I don't approve of what…the way Rick is handling

[00:12:32] this at all but it just doesn't feel like this is a seven month old argument to me. It feels like this is a fresh argument and they're both really still sore over it and

[00:12:47] they haven't processed it to where you know Lori, I think Lori by this time would have already said, you know we need to talk about this thing so this wouldn't be the first time that she would be saying we really should talk you know?

[00:13:01] Yeah, then she wouldn't say it that way if it wasn't the first time. It sounded like… As I said last Thursday and Friday before that and the month before that we really should talk. Yeah, something like that. Like we need to. I don't know.

[00:13:15] It just felt…the timing felt weird to me but anyway we'll get into the whole relationship. I'll tell you who's aged wonderfully is the Hyundai. The Hyundai is looking great. It's like survived the winter no bother. Yeah, you're right. It's still there. Still the star.

[00:13:28] I wonder if they're still getting paid. We'll see if it… Someone's even cleaned it. That car is cleaner than my car. What happened to the Hyundai? I don't even know but once you see it like rolling over or crashing or something you'll

[00:13:42] know that they're not a sponsor anymore. I wonder if there's some agreement that even after they stopped being a sponsor you weren't allowed to trash it. I think it makes it to the end of the season.

[00:13:51] I'm going to keep a watch but I think it makes it to the end of the season. It did make me laugh that the group looked like sacks of shit but this car comes up and it's like oh it's actually quite clean. I'm like… I'm in.

[00:14:01] Yeah but the cold open aside from those things is really cool. We open on this very extreme close up of a Zed's eye. It's a very well done Zed. Very character Zed there.

[00:14:14] We see the group burst in with this amazing silent opening where you see just how much of a group they've become. Carl has a silencer and can shoot really well now. I forgot there's just this amazing scene with Daryl and the owl which I just really like.

[00:14:29] The owl looks so cool. Owls are so weird. They're mostly leg but you don't see the legs because of how their feathers are. It's like creepy ass owl with a big leg. There's some thing where somebody pulled up the feathers and it was just these big long legs.

[00:14:44] It's so creepy! But it's great and they have owl for dinner so RIP that owl. This one's looking rough and then there's this whole thing with Carl and the dog food. So what does Carl's dog food mean in this? It means that they're very hungry.

[00:14:58] They're quite desperate for sustenance but they're not desperate enough yet. It's clear that Rick has a point of pride about his son not eating dog food which is understandable and we see that Glenn and Maggie are sharing little bits of food and I think

[00:15:11] Laurie is eating some peanut butter or something. So it's not the worst we see the group get. There's points further down the road. I think it's ridiculous. He throws the dog food at me. Yeah, like they're hungry. They don't even need to be starving. Fucking eat it.

[00:15:27] It's the zombie apocalypse. I don't know. I mean I understand what they were going for that Rick's like no we're not that bad yet. I don't want to stoop to that. Whatever it's fucking meat and just eat it. Like who cares that there's a dog on the label.

[00:15:38] I read up on it a little bit and you know it's not nutritionally made for best for humans. It's nutritionally made for dogs but Cheetos are even worse. You know like yeah no nutritional value and it's better than nothing for sure.

[00:15:53] And there is sometimes some synthetic form of vitamin K I read that is OK for dogs but not for people in high doses. But in an emergency one can not going to hurt you.

[00:16:03] I think old fashioned cat food used to have ash in it because the cats need like because they would usually eat bones like they can. They need that kind of like. Oh yeah. That's a different story.

[00:16:14] But now like the fancy ass food my cats get sometimes I look at it and I'm like I'm pretty sure this is better than what I am currently eating. Like it's like legit proper anyway. So yeah but this was clearly not like gourmet tiny cat tins.

[00:16:27] But yeah Rick's. I'd be pissed if I was Carl I'd be like dad I'm hungry. Listeners at home Bodhi's just watching in the background just chewing on a dog bone. He just gets right down with the cats.

[00:16:42] I liked the way that Rick throwing the can everyone kind of flinches and it's clear that his his mood is still kind of the group is kind of in his thrall in terms of his anger and his tension.

[00:16:56] And then T-Dog spots the Zeds coming and they hot food out the back into the kind of little caravan that they've made up with the Hyundai the estate car and Darryl's motorcycle. I just checked by the way here I'll have my iPad speak the pronunciation because we're

[00:17:13] all saying this car name differently. OK but here Hyundai Hyundai. Yeah. Not Hyundai. That's what I thought. Yeah it looks like Hyundai because there's a Y in there. Hyundai. OK well clearly our sponsorship doesn't really matter that much.

[00:17:27] Our sponsorship deal with Hyundai has gone out the window so sorry about that. I was looking forward to getting a new car. And as before they speed away Maggie grabs a very useful axe which I thought was going

[00:17:38] to be the thing that they did the amputation with but they don't. They do it with the hatchet. But I wondered if it was a nod to what's about to happen with her dad's leg.

[00:17:46] But I think the main thing you thought what was going to be Maggie stops to grab an axe from a woodcutter and I was like oh and then I was like oh wait no it's a hatchet later in the episode.

[00:18:00] But yeah we see the group have come on Maggie's very much part of the kind of fighting force. Very much. Carl's shooting, Laurie, Carol and Herschel we find out later in the episode have stepped up as well but they're kind of in the background of this one.

[00:18:15] And yeah it's just a masterful way of showing how powerful silence can be and what you can show in group dynamics without relying too heavily on dialogue. Yeah. Yeah. I think it felt like I don't know I thought about Glenn Mazar a lot watching this episode.

[00:18:31] I think he just really wanted to come out with a bang with his first you know this is the first full season of Showrunner. Yeah he nailed it. So my first one is similar vein it's just called Badassery.

[00:18:49] We remember this episode with that scene but there is badassery throughout. But I'll go through my notes on that scene first. So I think one of the points is yeah that some time has passed where they haven't had

[00:19:03] food or shelter after the farm so they've been forced to deal with the zombies and they become more effective fighters. And it's in a way old hat to us after 11 seasons but I don't know this scene is right up there

[00:19:19] with any badass scene in all of Walking Dead still because because they're working together so effectively and just because of the artistry of how they presented it and the silence and everything but still like they know now how to do all this stuff and it was just really

[00:19:33] thrilling though when it aired because we hadn't seen anything that came later. So wow that's so cool. They figured it out. They're leveling up. Yeah. And and they're operating particularly quickly quietly lethally and effectively as a team

[00:19:48] And then and Carl like interesting as you said to see him as part of it. So I feel like it's Glenn Mazzara saying the show is badass now in a way that it hasn't

[00:20:00] really been the focus of the show before before it felt a little more like a soap opera with some horror mixed in but now it's like look at what these awesome characters can do you know.

[00:20:13] And I think it helped change the feel of the show where viewers became hungry for more badassery like this afterwards. Yeah I would agree with that. And so just yeah I mean you covered the scene well so I'll move on but the new opening I

[00:20:30] like better personally than the season one and two the credits. Yeah it becomes more of an ensemble with the names rather than picking out faces and things like that. You know you don't and it's pulling focus away from the kind of love triangle element

[00:20:45] of the first two seasons. Yeah but I just thought to the it's the first two and maybe listeners or you don't agree with this but I just think it's kind of boring and it's all like yellowy and just feel like it's unattractive and not that exciting.

[00:21:01] There's a couple good images in there but this is creepy and moody. The lighting is interesting. It's more active. The zombie eye is creepy you know and there's the arrow which starts to show the walking dead's growing obsession with iconic objects that represent characters.

[00:21:18] It's another way that this episode feels more like what Walking Dead became you know because they're realizing that it's Daryl you know that Daryl's become this fan favorite character. Another badass thing is first in Nigerira as Michonne. So good.

[00:21:37] I won't talk too much about but just the way that she slices through a zombie and then flicks the blood off of her the tip of her katana after she makes a kill.

[00:21:46] And the pets with the missing arms are pretty badass too even though I think they make no sense but they're cool to look at. It's vibes. Michonne's just vibes man. Yeah. Badass vibes. Her whole like outfit and her hair and her demeanor and everything. She's great.

[00:22:01] And then when they've already taken all the zombies out in the yard and they're pushing into the courtyard of the prison where they see the Zeds in the riot gear. That was just badass. A lot of hand to hand killing and slicing through their heads.

[00:22:17] And one scene that really stands out in this episode is the one where Maggie goes in under the chin and then she's got her eyes light up. Did you see that? It's a meme in the wild.

[00:22:26] There's a gif of that I've seen people use and I saw it. I was like gif in the wild. And it's a badass moment and it I mean they are often doing hand to hand knifing of zombies

[00:22:41] after this and we saw a little bit before but I don't know if we saw very much where they just walk right up to a zombie and knife it and here they're thrilled by it but it just becomes a day in the life later down the road.

[00:22:52] But right now it's super badass. And then that one Zed whose whole face skin comes off and it looks like the tar man from Return of the Living Dead which I think might have been on purpose and then stabs it and cuts its head in half.

[00:23:05] I ate like a very juicy nectarine over the sink today and I was thinking about that when I watched that and I was just like well I don't want to eat it. Yeah I was like oh the skin oh no never mind.

[00:23:16] I've got one left I'm probably not going to eat it. So I think the badassery is great. I think it's a bit of a double edged sword pun intended. It makes the show feel cooler and and it's I think it's one of the things that really

[00:23:32] propelled The Walking Dead to become this record breaking hit that it was. I think without this focus on badassery it would not have been as big of a hit. And I think Glenn Mazzara you know who took over for Frank Darabont should probably get

[00:23:47] a lot of credit for this. But also I personally didn't always like it when viewers would like trash characters who weren't always badass. You know and I want the full range of human behavior people to be messy and flawed and

[00:24:04] scared too scared to do the best thing sometimes or I don't want a cheesy action adventure show you need it to have ground in this humanity heart. But all in all I really do think Walking Dead rode that line really well for the most part

[00:24:18] over the years they had both. I think about this a lot in terms of like I've probably spoken about this on the pod before but there are two other things in my life that I enjoy one only two. I don't like anything else. No.

[00:24:33] A few things that stand out to me. I'm a big fan of the Fast and Furious franchise even though it's ridiculous. I know it's crap. Nobody write in and tell me it's crap. I bet you most people like it too. Yeah.

[00:24:43] It's but and the other thing is I don't personally play but Peter is a big D&D person so there was this article came out a couple of years ago and one of the it might be in vulture

[00:24:52] or something I should find the link about reading the Fast and Furious as one long D&D campaign and something that happens in long running D&D campaigns I didn't know about till like last year is that you level up.

[00:25:05] So like it's an achievement for a party when they reach a point where they go to the next level because it means they unlock more spells they are able to do more things they get more power and I sort of more strength.

[00:25:16] It was a really interesting way of reading Fast and Furious because like you know for those of you have not seen it in film one they're like stealing DVD players and film like 10 or whatever they're in space like it's not a believable trajectory.

[00:25:27] These people gain superpowers and one of the things that comes up in relation to The Walking Dead sometimes is that by the time you get to season 10 or 11 everyone's almost a superhero like they've all had that and level up.

[00:25:39] And it doesn't make sense to an extent that if you survive that long you would be desensitized and you would know how to handle them. I think this to me feels like the first big level up for our group.

[00:25:51] I will confess I was like saying morning to myself going fucking Lori's doing nothing and then she did start shooting and shooting quite well and I was like okay fair enough. So like that's pretty cool I guess. Yeah yeah points to Lori.

[00:26:04] That whole level up concept when you have kids you see that like every once in a while it's like oh wow Bodhi leveled up suddenly he's more sophisticated or he just seems it

[00:26:16] happens in spurts so it does feel like you're watching a video game and all of a sudden the person's head glows and they're like more capable or whatever. Yeah I know it's the same with my niece occasionally we'll get a picture and I'm like oh she's

[00:26:27] like different now. Like she doesn't look like what she used to. She's the same kid like and we love her but she looks like she's like grown up or she's like not a kid anymore. Yeah it's weird. Cats and dogs don't really do that. They just stand.

[00:26:41] No they don't level up that much. They just kind of mellow out. They're just like eh we'll grow a bit and then we'll mellow out. So I think this is the group's first big level up. That's true. Cats come out pretty badass almost right from the start.

[00:26:51] Yeah they're like I don't care what you think. Okay. They jump real high and stuff. Yeah. All right. I think it's your turn right? Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about the Grimes couple because I feel I just it's horrible

[00:27:07] to watch this episode for the two of them. It's like Laurie is so scared and that scene with her and Herschel where she's freaking out about like what if the baby rips me apart. Oh God. Scared of the baby not moving. That's what I would be afraid of.

[00:27:20] Like my favorite zombie movie Dawn of the Dead. The thing I don't like about it is there's a little zombie baby pregnant woman in there. It just kills me. I think as well there's like there's so much shame and stigma around even not in the zombie

[00:27:34] apocalypse mothers talking about fear and about birth. Like there's this thing particularly in like my mom's generation of like you forget all about it when you're holding your baby and I'm like yeah that's okay but it's also okay

[00:27:45] to say that it was like traumatizing or not okay or like I was scared of it because women like Laurie says in this episode women did die in childbirth a lot before modern. And she's right. That's exactly what's going to happen.

[00:27:58] And it comes up in a later episode I think that Laurie had to have a c-section for Carl and I think traditionally if you have a c-section for the first baby it's very likely you'll have to have another one.

[00:28:08] So that must be in the back of her brain. So she's terrified. She's scared she's going to turn. She's scared of hurting other people. And there's this part of me that thinks something Sarah Wayne Cowleys puts into this performance

[00:28:18] or maybe I project onto her is like there's part of Laurie I feel like feels like she deserves this because she feels so shitty about what happened with Shane and Rick and the fact that she's up there. She seems very guilty.

[00:28:29] She says you know it would have been better if I'd never made it off the farm. And Herschel is so kind to her and that scene when he says the baby doesn't care about any of that. You know the baby is his thing.

[00:28:38] And that's another thing where I feel because I've been saying this episode feels like character is a character settling in or different aspects of the show settling into what they became. And this feels like the Herschel we know the kind old wise grandpa caring type you know

[00:28:53] not the uptight farmer protecting his territory anymore. Yeah not being like a bit of an like a sort of preachy douche. So I just I just really felt for Laurie and you see her try. I'm not going to say scared of Rick because he's not abusive in this.

[00:29:11] Well he's not an abusive husband. We don't that is not something I would say about Rick. He's behaving in a pretty fucking horrible way in this episode and the way I've always read it is essentially were this not the zombie apocalypse the Grimes would be having a divorce.

[00:29:25] Like I do not see this couple staying together. I do not think that there is anything left there for the two. If it's seven months that to me does it just feels like a divorce.

[00:29:33] And I think we even joke about it in a later episode about like oh what we're going to do get a divorce and it's like well yeah probably. So but when you see her try and go up to because she still has that role of like trying to

[00:29:45] talk Rick down and he just shuts her down. You know she talks about it's time to get the house in order. Can't we just enjoy this for a few days. He's so spiky with her. He says he doesn't want to be patronized. He's doing stuff. He's doing things.

[00:29:58] It's just so painful to watch. I just it's such a horribly sad bit of Rick's arc this time from leaving the farm to Laurie's death where he completely focuses not on the wrong things because he keeps the group going

[00:30:17] but he never amends this rift with Laurie and it's just I find it really sad and really horrible to watch even though I'm not a huge Laurie fan. I love Rick and Michonne together. I just think it's a really I don't know.

[00:30:30] It's just a really bleak thing to watch and I think it's a very realistic dissolution of a relationship like there's two people who just don't have anything left. And that's what I quote unquote like about it is it feels like real people. Yeah it really does.

[00:30:45] And I just think Sarah Wayne Cowleys does such a good job of selling that vulnerability and that sadness and I think especially knowing how it ends up here just like oh. Because I remember watching this my whole thing thinking about Laurie in the early episodes

[00:31:01] of the season was I knew what happened in the comic and I was like yeah how are they going to do this. Like is she gonna. And in a way I think her dying in childbirth was was the best way because it meant you didn't

[00:31:10] have to do the horrible shooting scene that happens in the comics but it was still a bummer and it was still heavy as hell and yeah I just I just felt for her.

[00:31:20] I just feel like Rick's a real piece of shit in this episode and it doesn't improve and it's a bummer. It's a bummer. Both can be true. He can be leading the group into better places but he's taking his eye off the ball for showing love and care.

[00:31:34] But I think ultimately there isn't much love and care there anymore and that's even sadder. Yeah I mean maybe he doesn't love her. Maybe who was it? It was Jenny Ryan who said maybe Rick doesn't love Laurie you know and maybe he didn't love

[00:31:51] Laurie or maybe he did but now he doesn't. And that's okay. You can fall out of love with somebody but you shouldn't treat them like shit. No and I don't think Laurie could have done. I mean Laurie can't change what has happened and it's clear that she.

[00:32:06] I mean there's. I don't think she's. I don't think her regret is in question from what she's told Rick or the way she's behaved and yeah it just is a bummer. It's a bummer. Probably get a little down now from Laurie haters being like she's a bitch.

[00:32:20] I think most well I listen to Renee's message and she's like I don't usually feel for Laurie but I do in this episode. Oh okay. Cool. Okay if Renee's feeling it then I feel like. We'll get to that but I'll do my Rick and Laurie point too.

[00:32:39] I mean I love that it's the famous stuff and things. Yeah. Became a thing about Rick you know and it's like a lot of famous lines. It's not exactly how we remember it.

[00:32:53] Like Darth Vader we always think of him saying Luke I am your father but he actually says no I am your father. Yeah. And in Casablanca Humphrey Bogart never said play it again Sam. He said play it Sam.

[00:33:06] So I had a feeling and I don't know if I'm right. I'm Googling it right now. I think he says it again. I think he says it again when they're on the. Oh stuff and things. He actually does say that. I think he does. Okay.

[00:33:20] Maybe so yeah yeah yeah. We need to keep an eye on this because I had the same thing where I was like. I don't think so but maybe maybe he does. I think I mean maybe maybe he does.

[00:33:29] I don't think so but maybe but I do feel like this is the moment that where we go because it really hits you know he's like I'm doing stuff Laurie. Thanks isn't that enough.

[00:33:40] And that's like what a dismissal like he's like doesn't even say what he's doing and it's so ridiculous. So it's just such a fucking snub. He flipped her off really. Thanks. But he's but here's the thing.

[00:33:56] So you know last we saw Rick and Laurie he was in freak out mode after having killed Shane and that was that was fucking rough right. She basically told him to do that and then he did it and then she fully rejected him

[00:34:08] and shot a lot of hate his way. And I could I totally understand just being wrecked by that you know like oh my God I killed my friend and and it was because you came in Lady Macbeth me and now you're rejecting

[00:34:24] me my friends dead like what the fuck you know. So I could see that being the end of a marriage right there. And I think he shut down. He can't deal with his emotions clearly so he's deal he's focused on action.

[00:34:38] His top priority is finding a secure place to stay and he indicates that it's about me because she's about to give birth. So he's looking out for maybe her maybe just the baby.

[00:34:51] You don't know but then the first thing he notes about why they need to push into the prison is that it might have an infirmary. So he's very focused on I think the baby or and or Laurie or both are his top priority

[00:35:02] but it's all about action and not dealing with the emotions of it. And when she wants to talk about what they've been avoiding talking about well we don't know for sure exactly what that is but it seems like because they had this moment that

[00:35:15] we saw at the end of the season and then they just haven't been together since then and that's probably what she wants to talk about. And and Laurie said she comes to him and in this moment because he's wanting to push further

[00:35:29] into the prison immediately and she's saying no I think we should rest. And he takes that as a criticism and this trauma that he's having is from that criticism that I just talked about was you know killing Shane.

[00:35:45] So now he's super sensitive to any criticism and I just having been in relationships I can totally understand that where you're not available to hear constructive criticism or something that's not aimed at calling you a bad person but really just we need to like

[00:36:00] we need to address this thing and then I've taken stuff like that as you're a bad person and I'm like not as open to it you know. But so so then she's saying she wants to talk about what's going on and about what things we've been avoiding.

[00:36:16] You know what you want to talk talk to her so I'm doing stuff Laurie things isn't that enough I'm still here. So I think he's trying to say I am helping you know I'm like quit criticizing me I'm

[00:36:27] doing I'm being the man I'm leading I'm I'm protecting us and isn't that enough for you you know. And so anyway I think that they should both talk to her because they need marriage counseling

[00:36:40] but but then she's like yeah feeling guilty about what quote what she put Rick through I put him in Shane at odds I put the knife in his hand did she actually give him a knife or is that just a metaphor.

[00:36:51] It's metaphor I think yeah I think she's studying her Shakespeare yeah. So even though I'm trying to like get in Rick's head understand how somebody could be like this as I said what I like about it is it feels real I don't approve of how he's handled

[00:37:06] it he's had all winter to calm down and work it out and at this point either he wants to be with Laurie or he doesn't and either way he should talk to her about that and be a

[00:37:17] good human being and tell tell her what he's feeling and if he doesn't love her anymore tell her that you know just work it out and he's a big fucking baby and and if he was

[00:37:28] like this at home before the zombie apocalypse not talking then it totally makes sense that that conversation he had with Shane oh yeah she's frustrated at me because I don't talk enough well if you're like this then yeah I'd be frustrated with you too you asshole

[00:37:42] and not only that he seems a bit sketchy still like in a way that he never did until the end the very final episode of last season and I wonder if that's a choice that Andrew

[00:37:53] Lincoln made that Shane changed Rick energetically and I think so yeah I've been thinking a lot about like the the concept of killing someone and like killing a living human especially if it's your friend yeah I've made that sense like I'm thinking about just on a daily basis

[00:38:10] like I don't know but I think it's in the Harry Potter books there's the concept of when you kill someone it splits your soul into and that hangs on a lot of things but

[00:38:21] like do you believe in a soul do you believe in this but it's a concept that's always really stuck with me because it's like the most inhumane thing you can do of taking life take something

[00:38:30] away from you and it splits you in a way that you can't ever get back like it's it's something that fundamentally cracks the foundation of who you are and I do sort of think Rick's

[00:38:41] done that I do sort of think he has damaged his soul he's damaged a part of him that he never fully gets back and it changed him and maybe he integrated it in a healthy way by

[00:38:52] the end maybe but it's still he's still changed and I told him on stage Andrew Lincoln that something of like you know the way that Rick evolved over time into a darkness it really

[00:39:06] impacted me because he changed from a person that I felt safe around to someone more like one of my stepfathers who was not a good person and they were looking at me like why are you

[00:39:18] saying this on a panel like you need it sounds like you might need therapy you know but uh they're just like that's nice that's nice yeah exactly oh boy sometimes that stuff goes well

[00:39:32] sometimes not so much I think it was okay but anyways other times but uh then when they go to push even further like they I think they got into that one cell block but Rick insists that

[00:39:46] they push further into the prison and he gives a look at Laurie and I I don't remember the next episode so I was thinking maybe that was the last they saw each other but it's you're saying

[00:39:57] it's not huh it's not we it doesn't get much better it's not yeah we've not forgotten a like I don't know a rekindling I mean I remember for sure that it they left it where he was still

[00:40:14] unavailable to her and I'm and I felt like at some point he was going to crack and realize okay need to chill out and open up to her and figure this out but he just presumed that he would have

[00:40:30] time to do that and I think not having had that ends up driving him nuts where we see her ghost and I think that makes sense now that I think about it because ghosts are about unfinished

[00:40:41] business you know and I think as well there was part of him that maybe couldn't see the wood for the trees with the baby and he never stopped think that maybe they'd have the baby

[00:40:51] but not Laurie like I don't know I wonder if there's part of him that's like once the baby's here we'll sort it out once that thing is done we'll sort it out he must have known there was

[00:40:58] a big risk that she wasn't gonna make it but yeah maybe he didn't let himself think that like you know yeah probably I could see that I mean he seems very good at compartmentalizing and

[00:41:07] not letting himself go to certain places and just focusing on whatever task needs to be done yeah yeah it's Blake for the Grimes's yep it is but I think it's a good story I think it's

[00:41:22] I don't approve of how Rick is handling it I feel bad for Laurie but I think it's a good story yeah okay for me I guess Andrea's still on it no I'm joking Andrea super improved by being around

[00:41:41] Michonne it totally takes the sting out of it um it's mainly about establishing that Michonne is a badass that the two of them have become quite close over the winter they've had just as much

[00:41:52] time as the group has so they've been together for about six or seven months I thought a lot Michonne and Andrea's relationship because we don't really see much of it on the screen and

[00:42:03] Andrea's way into the group but it's an interesting kind of loss that I don't think they really talk about them I just think Michonne mentions Andrea a couple of times as it goes on but I like what

[00:42:14] the actresses the actresses well I like what the actors did with kind of playing that closeness and the kind of push and pull of Andrea being quite stubborn being very sick kind of doing the

[00:42:25] gone get thing of trying to make Michonne leave and we see them setting off into the woods with the pets in tow and we rewatching know where that path is going to take them which is kind

[00:42:38] of exciting because it's taking them straight to Merle and to the governor but it's watching it for the first time I remember being like I love that they're focusing on Michonne refusing to leave Andrea even though Andrea's like I'm basically get out of here save yourself leave

[00:42:58] me for dead Michonne refuses to that comes back little tiny spoiler but in the one who live Michonne is so anti leaving anyone you know and I wondered if they looked back on the scene and

[00:43:11] took that into her story on purpose or if it's just a coincidence I always saw Michonne as being one of my stepsisters is very hard to win over but once you've won her over she's like loyal for

[00:43:26] life like unless you do something really really terrible but I've always viewed Michonne kind of like that it's like once you're there she will like fight to the fence for you but before that

[00:43:36] she's got it and you just get the sense that Andrea and her have really hit that point of loyalty being together and yeah it's good to see them good to have Michonne on the screen

[00:43:51] feels like the group is complete now yeah and I I feel like when Michonne first came in she didn't talk all that much and she looked mad a lot and I remember some viewers didn't respond to her all

[00:44:07] well in the first few episodes because of that she just seems like a one-note character or something but even in this episode she's showing great kindness and they hurt she has a moment like a

[00:44:19] warm moment between Andrea and so I think the seeds are there it's funny because I was thinking about that because the last time we saw her was in the ones who live and you know a lot of that

[00:44:29] is about without spoiling it her her great love for Rick and her great love for her family and this real softness that here you just can't imagine and I noticed actually one of the things

[00:44:40] I don't know what this is deliberate but when Laurie and Carol are settling into their cell and I think that's the cell where in season four Michonne bonds with Judith and you know there's

[00:44:54] that moment where she's very bothered by the baby crying and then she kind of melts a little bit and you see her and Judith actually start to form a bond and I was like it's where Judith gets her

[00:45:03] mama. That made me happy. Yeah I forgot about that. All right I'm gonna talk about some happiness and lightness because as I said I thought there was so much heart in this episode and little moments of joy and triumph and connection sometimes with really moving music that I'm

[00:45:26] always a sucker for if it's done wrong. The music was great this episode. They did them four strings really well as well. There was a lot of old school horror. I'm just gonna go through some moments

[00:45:39] these nice moments like a little moment of triumph after they cleared all the zeds in the yard they all just seem so proud of themselves and they're like something went right. Yeah and after

[00:45:49] seven months of apparently being right across the river from this place but not noticing it and T-dog laughs haha and woo and Rick smiled at one point during it just seeing looking at how

[00:46:03] well it was going and I love it they have to get some wins sometimes and that was cool. Yeah absolutely. Just Carol complimenting Rick. She says Rick's gotten us a lot further than I thought he would

[00:46:13] I'll give him that. Shane could have never done that. Well we don't know maybe but um it was nice to hear her after what she was saying last time. Yeah Carol's having a great time this episode.

[00:46:23] That's the next thing like another character settling in more to what they're going to be for the rest of the series is Carol. She's she's there's a shift she's more playful she's more

[00:46:35] comfortable with herself more fun and um and that lasts more or less for the rest of the series I mean she has a lot of trauma but you got she's got that personality there and and I think just trying

[00:46:47] to make sense of it she's free of ed and she's had time to grieve for Sophia and now for the first time in many many years she can live for herself you know and that just has a whole an impact on her

[00:47:00] being. Yeah and like Herschel we learn is training her up as kind of an assistant and Rick talks about her having done gun training and being quite a good shot now like she's getting a chance to do

[00:47:13] her own thing you know to actually learn and contribute it's just it's nice it's really nice. I think she's still not great if I remember right. Yeah there's a funny bit where she's like sorry.

[00:47:20] Yeah here yeah that's that maybe that's what it was like oh sorry but even that the way she handles that it's like she's not really apologizing to the level she probably should be yeah it's kind of

[00:47:35] funny about that almost killed you. But then here when she's you know got a pain in her shoulder and Darryl gives her a massage and she seems impacted by it in some way. Turned on or moved

[00:47:50] or something you know she probably hasn't been shown any affection in also many years you know who knows if she ever has and she says pretty romantic screw around and he goes I'll go down

[00:48:04] first and she goes even better which was a sex joke I don't know if everyone caught that and he goes stop it. It's hilarious and I think probably most people just write it off as her completely

[00:48:17] joking not at all serious and maybe so but I also know that a lot of times how people test for interest in a low-risk way is to joke and then if there's no interest you can just oh yeah I was

[00:48:28] just joking and I we saw last season that she seemed to be like looking at him with big eyes and everything and saying I need a good man and I think their relationship is still new and they're

[00:48:39] still figuring out what it is and maybe this was like okay we've figured it out right here it's not this you know. Yeah not that. I wondered if it was a recurring joke with the two of them that she'd

[00:48:49] maybe tried something I don't know yeah I agree with you I do agree yeah but we don't see much of that after this if I remember right. They also joke about little Shane so clearly everyone knows

[00:49:02] the baby is Shane. Yeah that's hilarious I love that. Quite the opposite. This is kind of a long item but I really love when Beth and Maggie start singing the parting glass. Oh it's so good if

[00:49:14] anyone listening is a fan of that song there's an amazing I think it's from the lockdown so there's a version of Hosier singing this on YouTube. Oh cool. So good. There's also a version of

[00:49:26] Lauren Cohan and Emily Kinney a produced version that you can find on probably Spotify and Apple Music but that's a Scottish song do you know it? It's Irish. It's Irish oh well I read it was

[00:49:38] Scottish but it's in Ireland that's what I read on YouTube. I associate it with being Irish but you know I can let me just have a wee a wee peek here and see well uh it's not one I was

[00:49:50] familiar with um the parting glass Scottish there you go um but it's also been sung in Ireland and remains popular uh oh interesting so what I mean they're the bleeding over of Scottish people into

[00:50:06] Ireland and Irish people into Scotland is substantial so it doesn't make sense. I was just looking at the Wikipedia entry but yeah no you're right it is a Scottish song. I mean I also found out that

[00:50:16] the first that the English were the first to refer to soccer to football as soccer but then somehow they became an American thing but anyway um so it's a joyous song and it's a little

[00:50:29] Sabbath it's just beautiful and it's about the bitter sweetness of saying goodbye that's often sung at the end of a gathering of friends but with hope for the future and it was just really lovely

[00:50:39] and Emily Kinney is a musician and and I recommend checking her stuff out too and she used to play concerts at Walker Stocker Con that were just really good and so that's another very nostalgic

[00:50:50] moment for me this this scene. I miss Emily Kinney like watching these episodes I'm like you know what I never Beth was never my favorite character but I do miss her kind of I did know it's nice

[00:51:01] to have her back on screen and part of the group I think it's just nice to see Maggie with family and loved ones you know yeah she loses a lot yeah she loses them all she ends up with Negan

[00:51:11] in New York. I love the moment where Carl seems to have a crush on Beth and she's in the he's in the cell talking about how soft the beds are and he's gonna check the one on top and Herschel comes

[00:51:25] in and goes you find your cell yet? And you go oh no sorry and then Herschel and Beth smile at each other and she kind of wiggles her head and giggling oh he likes me I don't know it's so funny. We see

[00:51:40] Glenn and Maggie sitting on the bunk and he's checking her for scratches and she's just adoring looking at him adoringly and soulful music playing and then you see Carol and Laurie

[00:51:50] sitting in their cell smiling at each other and it's just all so sweet I can hardly take it it makes me miss miss the heyday of The Walking Dead so much heart in the show. I know I know.

[00:52:02] And then last just Andrea Michonne taking care of Andrea is just really nice and and Andrea being selfless too encouraging Michonne to go on without her you know so Andrea's still Andrea and Laurie in this episode and they're still getting positive points. I've got a couple of

[00:52:21] ones to add um Laurie says she hasn't felt this good in weeks when uh I don't know that she's telling the truth but I think she is she's probably feeling better I think she's probably freaking

[00:52:31] out on the inside um I think she's scared too like I don't even know if she would feel as guilty as she does if her life wasn't in danger and you know I mean she must feel like she has a death

[00:52:42] sentence compared to everyone else you know um when Glenn finishes his owl he says just like mom used to make and throws the bone away which I thought was quite funny um I don't know if this

[00:52:53] is these aren't so much funny as nice um T-dog has an idea about the water supply that they actually use throughout seasons three and four about digging a canal and making sure the water

[00:53:05] is clean so that they can use it um within the prison I thought that was really cool I hadn't realized it was him that came up with that yeah I'm glad to hear that I don't want T-dog to have

[00:53:14] an impact right I mean he's such a little to do in season two um and Herschel mentioned seed and planting which is lovely because we do see that come to fruition and I think it's where the uh

[00:53:27] where the title of the episode comes from part of it I feel like it's multiple levels it's also just the seed of the future of the walking dead yeah yeah but because they're at the prison

[00:53:40] but um also there's a seed growing inside Laurie so maybe it works on multiple levels I was a bit like oh we get judas in yes and which is probably not the right way to look

[00:53:49] at what's about to happen and we also have Carl and Beth when they're having a chat Carl says remember the storage units so we get a sense of like they've stayed in some pretty gross places

[00:53:59] in the last seven months so I wonder what the storage unit situation was so yeah they're clear there must have been like weeks or a date like a couple weeks or stuff where they were in the

[00:54:09] one place but then got run out or whatever so yeah pretty grim I'm just imagining that show where they get to like raid a storage unit oh yeah excellent okay what do you got next um

[00:54:25] um I liked how smart the group have gotten um not just badass but smart like there's loads of little details in this episode that I think speak to how adept they've become at dealing with things

[00:54:42] so when they stop um Rick says 15 you're on point that's the first line of this episode which we can infer means 15 minute break you're the one on watch he says that to Carl so clearly

[00:54:52] they've got into this habit of taking a break making a plan and then moving forward um we see them using those I think they're called calipers the clips to like open and close gates we see

[00:55:04] them using bolt cutters a lot of this is just common sense but honestly in zombie shows you don't always see it so I'm just like glad to see that carrying these things they've got a tin opener

[00:55:13] they're carrying bolt cutters they've got calipers like they're picking up things that are useful and I wonder if that's Kirkman's influence at all because there was a lot of that in the comic the practicalities of living in the apocalypse yeah absolutely I think one of

[00:55:28] our feedback things mentions that about how you keep warm in winter um but yeah I think it's that kind of thing really it just gives you faith that this group are actually really f**king smart and

[00:55:39] when they're through the fence it's Maggie, Daryl, T-dog, Glenn and Rick in hand-to-hand combat three of them in a circle going one-on-one with these zombies Rick yells at T-dog don't break rank and

[00:55:51] the reason T-dog has broken rank is to grab a shield and because when they see that there's riot gear there and that sort of changes their tactics a little bit they do sort of address

[00:56:01] later why they don't continually wear riot gear when Daryl's like oh we haven't needed it up to now and we need it now but it is one of those things where I'm like surely the right gear would

[00:56:10] have been useful at other points yeah but they close off more fences it is dumb they close off I mean one thing I mean this is meta and something meta affecting the story but they probably just

[00:56:20] didn't want to have their characters in masks yeah no they wouldn't you know you want to see them emote yeah like the Mandalorian Daryl has to come up with some yeah Daryl's like why would I

[00:56:31] have sleeves that's stupid and it's like exactly it's like I'm like I'd probably wear full armor and there's only four clothes I'm such a wimp I'd be like okay I mean it's smart you don't

[00:56:40] yeah exactly so the group get in they get into the prison through this kind of just smart logical behavior Rick manages to get the keys from the warden having keys is a really good idea he has

[00:56:53] a set and Daryl has a set there's not just the one set between the two of them when they find the prison arsenal we see that Herschel's also carrying a little medical bag when they go on

[00:57:03] their walk around the prison not that it helps him much when his leg gets bitten but it's a cute detail and I think it's also very clever although it doesn't play off at payoff really that they're

[00:57:15] spray painting the way that they've come so they can find their way back just little details where I'm like capable people can do shit like it's not all magic or being a super superhero it is but

[00:57:27] then they like end up being surrounded in the what they call them the tombs in the halls of the prison and I'm like well you fucked up somewhere because we probably should have handled that better somehow maybe trying to lure the zombies out or something you know

[00:57:51] always one it was just nice to see the prison then yeah kind of sea block before they sort of settle in and make it their own I've also noticed I take notes for the podcast in notion

[00:58:05] a little plug for notion there and I always have a picture of the episode there and I can see in Darrell's arrow arsenal I think he's used some feathers from the owl on his arrows there's a couple of really distinctive feathers I'm like oh that's a cute detail

[00:58:19] I hope that's true I was thinking how does he keep making arrows but yeah there you go I will useful so yeah the little practical details I thought were fantastic that's respect

[00:58:30] for animals like if I'm gonna have to kill you I'm going to use every part of it use all of it yeah exactly and yet Herschel and T-dogs ideas about planting and water I think that's just

[00:58:40] excellent yeah Karen used to love all that stuff too oh yeah Aaron would know what to do before yeah all right Herschel so in that opening scene where they're scouring this house for

[00:58:55] supplies they all come through the door one by one and you see Herschel walk through at one point and just seeing him with that beard and that look it really hit me because that's how I remember

[00:59:08] Scott Wilson at all those Walker Stalker cons and it was just nice to see and then I guess we already talked about it but he really transforms into this sort of wise caring comforting person

[00:59:25] and when he says to Laurie you know she's like I don't what I put rook through I put him in Shane at odds you know who doesn't give a shit about that this baby it was just so nice and then they

[00:59:41] push into the prison they get surrounded and I this whole time I'm thinking I guess this is the episode right where he gets his leg out there's only a few minutes left is it gonna happen

[00:59:51] right now and then um then he stepped near this quiet one and got bitten I'd forgotten that's what happened and I can't remember what we thought at the time did we think he's a goner because we

[01:00:04] didn't know this is where we also learn another sort of tenant of The Walking Dead that if you get bitten and you it's an extremity and you chop it off in time you won't turn which had an impact

[01:00:14] through the rest of the series I was trying to think yeah because we saw a lot of you know amputees but it turns out most of the amputees were for some other reason not because they got bit like

[01:00:24] Aaron and yeah Carl's eye and even Merle but um Tyrese they got his I think arm off but it was too late yeah but we all we always thought that though like it was always like um if someone got bitten

[01:00:39] they made a point to show that it was on the neck or torso and you're like okay nothing can be done about that you know I feel like Tyrese was like upper arm so it was yeah yeah close yeah so anyway

[01:00:52] um Rick Rick right away like the only only one way to keep you alive and I uh he sounds like he knows for sure but he's just guessing right he doesn't know and unless it's like they had like a whole

[01:01:06] they met somebody member of the group cut their bit off and then they were fine and then they died remember t-dogs toe yeah or like remember Jimmy who we know there was a Jimmy remember

[01:01:19] Andy who we never talk about yeah we saved them from becoming a zombie and then they um died of cancer no I don't know that's horrible cancer jokes great sorry guys uh anyway uh so let's get

[01:01:34] back to the the limb chopping off much lighter um so uh they I think Rick hits it nine times eight or nine times and it's so brutal and gross uh and I love that that you see the prisoners

[01:01:54] what an entrance it's so funny because the prisoners don't know they won't know shit they don't know that like everyone's infected or like yeah it's who knows what they know but

[01:02:05] I remember them saying that Andrew Lincoln made a point to even though he didn't have to be there during their reaction shots that he still went through that scene again just to get their

[01:02:16] reaction you know when they were filming them so uh that's really cool he was that kind of guy but I still I still don't remember I probably Karen and I were like so do you think he's going

[01:02:28] to make it or not you know at this point yeah you would you wouldn't know yeah we wouldn't know for sure I mean I think I probably thought it was kind of dumb that you would survive because

[01:02:40] it seems like well I don't know I'm I don't know how fast things spread through the bloodstream I don't know I know if your adrenaline's up it'll go a lot quicker because your blood's pumping

[01:02:52] yeah who's to say but whatever it's zombies so yeah zombie logic all right what do you got next anything else uh nothing else just notes from me how about you I had a little bit about when they

[01:03:05] first found and began to clear the prison once they get there Rick starts shouting out orders Glenn Maggie and Beth draw as many as you can over there points pop them through the fence Darryl go

[01:03:18] back to the other tower Carol you've become a pretty good shot take your time we don't have a lot of ammo to waste Herschel you and Carl take this tower I I think one cool thing about Rick

[01:03:28] and we saw this when he was planning um search parties for Sophia too and other things that he's quick with the tactics you know he's a strategic thinker yeah just coming up with really fast and

[01:03:41] delegating tasks and roles being really decisive in a in a moment like that and maybe that's his police training um but I mean like yeah it worked really well with the yard but not so much when

[01:03:51] they went inside the prison so he also doesn't let Glenn do the suicide run which I liked he does himself yeah Glenn was doing all the shit jobs and this one right yeah they were making a point

[01:04:04] of that like okay we're not gonna do that to Glenn anymore yeah the writers I mean okay let's get into notes we got I thought it was neat that they spotted that there were civilians in there because

[01:04:14] part of me was thinking wouldn't you just be worried that like the prison was already a community um but I like the way they kind of did some they did some kind of analysis of what was

[01:04:25] likely to have happened and it turned out to be pretty accurate um and it is a gamble that does pay off although horrible things do happen at the prison I think it is it is something that you can

[01:04:33] completely understand why they're so keen to to do it yeah I think the prison on the plus side it's very easy to secure prisons are secure but on the negative side and I think this should be

[01:04:47] at least somewhat of a factor depressing as fuck to spend all your time there you know I mean part of me is like when Laurie's like I'm giving birth in a prison I'm like bitch you're alive in the

[01:04:57] zombie apocalypse but no that's horrible that is actually pretty gross I do feel quite bad for her and I think I was excited for them to get to the prison but I was by the time they left I was ready

[01:05:07] for them to get out of there too if I'm right bring on terminus all right a few notes uh I'm glad the zombies still seem creepy and ominous maybe more now than ever or at least not I mean

[01:05:21] the pilot they were pretty bad but you know later on they just sort of turn into fodder a lot of the times like cattle almost but here the way they move and the creepiness coming up on the eye

[01:05:32] or over the one zombie shoulder that's just waiting in the house it's really well done or even just like when t-dog looks outside the house and they're approaching like night of the living dead style or even when they're camping and they're kind of milling around outside the

[01:05:44] fences somehow that still seemed creepy to me so they get the hang of shanking them through the under the chin and that's a quick way to dispose of a zombie and it makes sense that it would be

[01:05:59] so quick because that part I'm touching under my chin here is soft but then they become butter heads later where they can just go right through the skull and I'm like no I don't know about that

[01:06:12] zombies give you very soft head I guess so but you can still bite people somehow the teeth stay hard Lori worrying about what if the baby's dead insider and rips its way out is exactly what I'd be

[01:06:24] freaking about too and they are setting us up or then she says let's say it lives and I die during childbirth Herschel says that's not going to happen but it is exactly what is going to happen

[01:06:37] and I'm thinking after Sophia we probably should have known you know but like you said we're thinking about what happened in the comics so we were just wondering if it was Lori was going to go

[01:06:47] out that way I just could never see them killing a baby on the show that was the thing that always helped me back they never did right I don't think no girl little kids but not yes my kids

[01:07:03] I was thinking in part when I first watched this I was probably just glad to be rid of Shane and wanted the show to prove that it could be good without Shane now I don't feel quite that way I

[01:07:17] I'm much more into John Bernthal's performance so I kind of miss him and then last thing is I just I remember if I remember right because I also got to go be a zombie in the finale of this season

[01:07:32] oh were you on the prison yeah yeah and I got to film one scene in the tombs you know the hallway there oh cool and I didn't like really you couldn't just like walk around and stuff but

[01:07:46] I got the impression that the set was actually pretty small it was like maybe like one corner and then they would just shoot it from different angles to make it look like it was like a maze

[01:07:58] something like that yeah well it's so dimly lit you probably could get away with quite a lot of that yeah for sure and uh Karen was out there with me and so she said a while back that she

[01:08:11] would come on for the finale to talk about our experience so hopefully she still remembers she said that and she'll come on we'll see or when you're in Scotland I'll interview you about it

[01:08:20] and we can just tack it onto a podcast yeah that'd be cool all right um I've got my mpd Scott Wilson had the idea to carry a medical bag when a few of the group members were clearing out

[01:08:33] the prison so that was a character choice I like it um this is actress Danai Gurira's first time on screen as Michonne the character of Michonne was introduced at the end of the season two finale

[01:08:43] but Gurira didn't portray her she hadn't been cast at the time and extra filled in the spot of Michonne in that episode I don't know if I did my deep dive last time but in the talking dead after

[01:08:53] the season two finale that was when they announced that Danai Gurira had been cast so they they did that they carried the wave then um this episode begins the safety behind bars story arc from the

[01:09:05] comics when Carl enters the kitchen of the house they scavenge the house um and you can see a can of smeet on the counter this is the same world they used on same word they used on water world

[01:09:17] when they showed the can of supposed spam so spam clearly didn't want to sponsor the walking dead um creator Robert Kirkman considers the prison to be a character in the show the prison set was designed by a walker production designer Graham Grace Walker

[01:09:33] yeah yeah the method Darryl uses to kill the prison guard Walker by pushing his helmet forward and driving his knife into the base of the walker skull is one of the sentry neutralization

[01:09:44] techniques taught by the US army how do you do it uh push the helmet forward and get them at the back of the neck in the back of the skull okay see I remember that from the x-files and like how you

[01:09:56] deal with aliens like standing back there um in the comic it was Dale and Alan rather than Herschel who had their legs amputated the writers like to diverge from the original story to keep viewers

[01:10:07] guessing um I like this one the episode starts off with a close-up view of an eye and then pans out to show Walker's face the finale episode for the season starts out the same way only when the camera

[01:10:18] pans out it reveals the governor's face possibly a metaphor for how the season starts off with walkers being the biggest danger to the group and ends with them learning that other people are

[01:10:27] all yeah future threat to them yep oh by the way I think I would say Bob is more the replacement for Dale in the comics since yeah that's that's bit you're eating tainted meat yeah um when they cut

[01:10:42] the chain link fence to enter the prison there are no sharp edges when they duck through it it's all been perfectly folded over I mean that's just nice that they took the time to do that yeah

[01:10:50] that is like five hours five hours that's why it took them two days um but you know good for them yep okay let's move on only on the walking dead only on the walking dead would it bring someone

[01:11:04] sheer joy to stab a prison guard in the throat except also on prison break Oz oranges the new black and Wentworth possibly only on the walking dead would you be pissed when your dad took your

[01:11:17] dog food away only on the walking dead with the guy chopping off his friend's leg be the hero love it 10 out of 10 put that on the t-shirt obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens the people it kills get up and

[01:11:59] tip are they slow moving chief yeah they're dead they're all messed up this is a walking dead cast news update okay the first item today is a sad one as anyone who's a walking dead fan and follows the news

[01:12:17] probably knows the animal actor called seven who played dog on the walking dead has died and it was announced on amc's instagram last week it had a picture of seven and it just said rest in peace seven hashtag twd's best boy and i saw the top response

[01:12:39] someone called khalid drag pool who said quote i had the pleasure of working with seven for a the walking dead press tour i was a zombie actor i was told that he was a working dog and wouldn't

[01:12:50] want me to pet him in between performances he would nudge my twisted zombie hand with his nose he indeed wanted some pets he was the goodest boy and norman reed has posted pictures of him

[01:13:04] and seven over the years and wrote gonna miss you seven and a broken heart emoji and said best tv buddy ever so so seven's not gonna get to france i guess i guess not yeah i mean maybe they'll have

[01:13:16] a seven look-alike as they tend to do sometimes but i don't know it'll be the same yeah we'll say yeah and uh other um actors from the show i guess posted on reedus's instagram saying nice

[01:13:31] things and one of them was leah who was seven's of course original owner you know that actor i mean we do overlook the fact that dog is a traitor and to take leah into the light that's right

[01:13:42] but it was just don't blame the actor for that seven was not responsible for that yeah everyone was a good boy well maybe rest in peace yeah uh next as we said last time walking

[01:13:54] to daryl dixon the book of carol it's such a long title to say is set to film on september 29th i mean not film premiere and they're just gonna stream it live yeah action everyone um in an

[01:14:09] interview with collider norman rees said he thinks there's still plenty of stories to be told about daryl quote i think it's got some time left in it i want that character to end correctly

[01:14:19] it started correctly and i put too much work into it to be a drone shot waving goodbye you know what i mean i want him to get his justice i don't know what he means by that it still has a huge fan base

[01:14:30] you get mobbed all the time because of that show in france when the posters went up it was bananas we're about to start season three which i don't even know if that's what he was supposed to say

[01:14:40] he said but i will say the finale of season two is the best one hour walking dead anything ever i've said it in press before i stick to it it's mind-blowing wow he always exaggerates i hope it's him and rick just having a big old smooch

[01:15:00] but yeah hopefully it'll be great there we go there we go um this kind of slipped by me but norman reedus is in a movie that just came out called the bike riders oh i didn't know that

[01:15:13] yeah it stars he has a supporting role it starts jody comer austin butler tom hardy michael shannon and norman reedus as funny sunny and apparently he looks very different in it so wow i saw him

[01:15:26] i watched hitman the other weekend and austin amelio had quite a big role in it oh that's cool i like it yeah it was weird it was weird seeing him not with a burned face

[01:15:36] yeah dwight we just did for patreon we did our top 10 directors i mean five and uh richard linklater was one of mine and he did that baseball movie everybody wants some that austin amelio was

[01:15:50] also in that was interesting i really like austin amelio i think he's a great actor and i say this um probably out of vanity more than anything i'm older than austin amelio i didn't think that i

[01:16:01] thought he was older than me i was like all right he's like early to mid 30s i'm like okay you know occasionally i would tell stories during this rewatch of what it was like to

[01:16:14] be around these guys during walker stalker and i would try to plan these fun games like we'd call it sectionary where we'd call the actors up on stage and do pictionary and they'd be two teams

[01:16:26] of two and then we call two uh people in up from you know the audience to be on each team too so it was three verse three anyway uh austin amelio was always game to do those kinds of things sometimes

[01:16:37] the other actors would get tired of it but he was always game so that was really fun i really like that he seems like a good like a good guy yeah uh but i want to just say a little bit more about this

[01:16:47] so it's called uh the bike riders it has an 86 on rotten tomatoes uh the synopsis says it said in the 1960s it follows the ride of vandals mc a chicago outlaw motorcycle club seen through the

[01:16:59] lives of its members and their families the club evolves over the course of a decade from a surrogate family for local outcasts into a violent organized crime syndicate threatening the original founder's

[01:17:07] unique vision and way of life and um the synopsis says fueled by a charismatic cast and the gritty authenticity of writer director jeff nichols approach the bike riders offers a conventional yet impactful look at motorcycle culture so i'll watch that just to see you know

[01:17:24] this one's interesting yeah i like it next uh the walking dead deluxe you know they're releasing monthly walking dead comics this time in color and with notes in the back from kirkman it's really cool and they've had a bunch of revelations from him about

[01:17:41] certain plans he had for the story and the comic that changed over time uh so he had planned to kill off andrea in issue five she ended up being one of the longest living

[01:17:52] characters yes she did he'd planned to have maggie kill negan before he had a chance to reform he had the script written but i guess he changed his mind because of input from charlie adler the

[01:18:04] the illustrator oh charlie you've closed us a world of pain here i mean i much prefer the story in the comics uh i think jeffrey ding is amazing at how he plays him but i

[01:18:17] prefer the way they did a story in the comics um kirkman considered having shane kill rick in issue six that would have been crazy that would have been wild and carl would have seen it

[01:18:29] but shane wouldn't have known that carl saw it so that would have caused a lot of weirdness he said shane would have been the first real villain big villain in the book and he would have

[01:18:38] been with the group on the same side as them the enemy sleeping the next tent over crazy i'm glad they didn't do that um he and then he said they he for a long time

[01:18:51] he was going to end the story with the zombies having taken over the world and everyone dead i remember reading this yeah yeah and he said over time he started to realize that's too bleak

[01:19:03] i can't do that he even told like norman reedus and greg nicotero about it and he said they pretended to like it or something uh and then he said the one thing that he never considered that

[01:19:15] people always ask him about or suggest is having rick wake up from his coma and it was all a dream he said i would never do that no that'd be lame yeah and then last the podcastka best character

[01:19:29] tournament part two is over we had it on uh the podcast group where listed out 111 characters from podcastka covered shows and then put them together in a bracket style tournament so it'd be two at a

[01:19:44] time and we'd vote over the course of a day and whoever won would go on to the next round and um out of the shows were all the shows we cover stranger things rings of power white lotus

[01:19:56] cobra kai you know game of thrones of course the walking dead and i'm gonna give who went into the last few rounds and see if you can guess who won each vote because you haven't seen any of that

[01:20:04] right no no i've seen nothing i'm a facebook hermit i don't get it yeah so that can be a benefit so in a lot of ways so uh for you so quarterfinals uh maggie versus baby yoda

[01:20:19] maggie yeah you're right yeah and she also beat negan which was a close race that she'd be uh daryl versus carol oh oh that's what it's like to play this game you're like i gotta get one of my

[01:20:34] children it's on the group so i'm gonna say daryl you're right yeah but it was close yeah yeah it will be michonne versus aria stark oh i'd love to see it um oh i'm gonna say michonne yes yeah

[01:20:51] yeah and the last one in the quarterfinals tyrian lannister versus john dory tyrian yeah but john made it that far you know i mean john's great finals yeah if anything good came out of uh fear

[01:21:04] the walking dead it was it was him mature them i would love to see the two of them have a conversation yeah absolutely they'd be best of buds uh he john would give him a little caramel candy and

[01:21:14] tyrion would drink to it okay here's the semi-finals maggie versus daryl daryl yep yeah good you're getting them all michonne versus tyrian michonne nope no tyrian tyrian's a powerhouse wow and the final is daryl versus tyrian who won daryl yeah you're right daryl and then and then

[01:21:42] so we've done this a couple years back and rick grimes won and so we left rick out this time until the very end and had daryl versus rick so who do you think won that one i hope rick but i think

[01:21:57] probably daryl it was rick but it was close oh it would be that's hard that's hard yeah both worthy and then some people were complaining you know you should have less walking dead

[01:22:08] characters because they're always going to win in this group and i'm like well it's about our favorite characters and it's kind of biased so the walking dead group lads get over it like

[01:22:17] we love you all we love you all yeah it was fun for so many shows i did one i was just like i wonder if just underneath it all we still have more of a walking dead fan base but tyrian and

[01:22:27] aria getting that far nice yeah and when we did it the first time i think it was in 2022 uh came down to almost the same few characters at the end and tyrian did beat daryl then so it

[01:22:39] was tyrian versus rick in the end but we were closer to game of thrones i think and well we were and uh daryl didn't have his spin-off so maybe and it was a different slightly different

[01:22:49] group of people it was a different time but you know it's close interesting oh that's exciting yeah it was really fun all right let's move along to listern roads groans and grunts beth nichols says i'm so excited to be in season three finally i love the governor

[01:23:10] i think season three is quite a pivotal series for our main characters especially maggie daryl rick and even carl yep and hershel and her show josey born ectal says i love this episode it

[01:23:24] always sticks out in my mind it's the first time we see the gang handle a group of walkers in this methodical way and it really is a turning point the tension between rick and

[01:23:33] lori is so uncomfortable it really highlights the true love we later see between rick and michonne a totally different more passionate love than with lori yeah i will say that yeah also i'm sorry

[01:23:45] to say but lori's belly is ridiculous i guess right so i don't like to comment on women's bodies like it's cool but doesn't kind of fake right it's i mean yeah it looks fake it's it fake it

[01:23:58] not it no look great it no look great uh she goes on i love carol's excitement when they clear the prison it's so crazy to watch old scenes and see her growth yeah we're witnessing it firsthand

[01:24:09] the iconic scenes with her and daryl on top of the bus little shane's got a big appetite and want to screw around i love those two heart emoji so excited that i'm finally off work for the summer

[01:24:20] i'm a teacher oh nice and can dedicate an hour a week to the rewatch again i'll try not to get ahead this time oh josey always so good to hear from you andy fisher who always signs off with

[01:24:32] five slices of pizza and ring which i love uh he says dear jason and lucy seed is fantastic this was the first walking dead episode i saw and it was so well done and yada yada yada 13 years later

[01:24:44] the look is impeccable sunburns thin sweaty dirty grimy athletic the opening scene tells so much about the characters systematically methodically working together without words staying one step ahead of the dead setting the season in the prison is so interesting that was that what was once the

[01:25:02] end of freedom is instead here a beginning of home security only on the walking dead the worst place on worst place on earth becomes home this episode made me fall in love with the show and

[01:25:12] may it never end i mean at this rate andy it probably won't so you're probably that's right yeah all right here's archmister renny who's i'll just mention right now renny wendy and veronica have their first episode out for dragon cast covering house of the dragon

[01:25:34] season two episode one and yeah they're great together and i'm happy that they're going to be covering the rest of the show so if you're a fan check that out really dude it's great and here

[01:25:43] she is in this episode we see what i think is my favorite thing in all of the walking dad which is michonne flicking blood off of her katana with that just casual wrist movement so slick so cool

[01:26:02] but i have a department of suspension of disbelief item for this episode which is how is it that that white calfskin wrap on the hilt and the scabbard of that katana stays so clean amidst so much

[01:26:18] zombie blood inexplicable that's all it's just because she's so damn cool that it just happens yep she's cleaning i didn't even say war orthodox back all right thanks renny here's diane ryan i love this episode from carol enjoying her massage from

[01:26:41] daryl to the classic stuff and thangs from rick and maggie's joy over working out how to kill the zombies with the helmets they have become such a great team in the time between the two seasons

[01:26:51] relying and trust relying and trusting each other except rick and laurie's relationship is worse than ever rick almost doesn't even want to speak to her it's also a has a real creepy section when they

[01:27:01] enter the prison and you don't know what's going to jump out at them to the perfect ending of hershel getting bitten and finding the prisoners i also think this was probably the episode that

[01:27:10] sent me looking for a podcast to listen to about it and i found yours yay i think i i've mentioned recently but i think that is our most downloaded episode ever for some reason season three episode

[01:27:22] one i think that's like peak walking dead initial buzz i think i mean you've reminded me um diane about when t-dog like pulls the helmet and all the goop just comes out of it oh it's so gross

[01:27:35] yeah um fiona jennifer neal says hi jason and lucy from fiona in scotland yay um i love the first two seasons like i love a good origin story but this is where the show really takes off for me i've been

[01:27:50] listening to the podcast since the ones who live oh i thought it was time to say hello as we enter my favorite walking dead era thank you for your fantastic coverage of one of my favorite shows i'm

[01:27:59] officially hooked this episode is great although i do find it hilarious that they've been circling the prison for seven months yeah fiona we agree um i love seeing how organized the group has become

[01:28:09] but it's sad to see them so far from living and reduced to basic survival the prison is the beacon of hope that the group desperately needed i forgot that hershel got bit so early on and that

[01:28:18] michonne did have clean bandana once upon a time um i can't wait to see what else i've forgotten bye for now oh thanks for writing in fiona yeah i love it when we hear from new listeners this far

[01:28:30] in that's great here's wendy hey this is who's the other another host yeah veronica why didn't you call in veronica come on veronica wendy and i'm giving feedback for season three episode one seed

[01:28:48] i loved the cold open you could really feel the group's desperation it felt more apocalyptic than most scenes we see in the walking dead i don't know how to explain that but just them

[01:29:04] searching for the food seeing what's left uh the briefness of it the panic the distress you could really feel all of that and then the other thing i wanted to ask about was the brief scene between

[01:29:18] carol and daryl like i know this pair has been platonic for a very long time and they're friends but it did feel like there was some sexual chemistry here and i feel like carol was being

[01:29:36] serious about her question or offer or proposal and i think maybe it started out that way and then it became very much just a friend thing i don't know what everybody's take on it but i definitely felt sexual chemistry between the two of them here

[01:29:57] i'd never even considered that but now that she says it it seems plausible at least that the way that carol said that it's like you want to screw around some more almost you know

[01:30:08] like what you do sometimes imagine if that was the reveal at the end it's just like oh by the way we were doing it together this whole time i don't think so though i would say i would guess not but

[01:30:18] maybe what about you and you know it's a good reading um it's not how i see it but i don't hate it so yeah why not but i do i just love that they have this strong friendship that didn't really go

[01:30:32] there you know yeah i think it's good to see that it's good to see that kind of platonic ideal and they're so close and i can't wait for now i'm getting more excited for the daryl show

[01:30:44] no jennifer palumbo says to weigh in on laurie holden andrea likability debates i wanted to share an old article i read recently because it sounds like we were not supposed to like her at the beginning the following is a quote from darabont quote laurie's role in the walking

[01:31:00] dead was intended by me to have a substantial character arc that never transpired she would go from being a mentally jangled super self-absorbed badly traumatized and angry girl to the opposite end of the spectrum their most reliable soldier an ace sniper and a grown-ass

[01:31:15] woman who becomes all about self-sacrifice and protecting the group why don't you say grown-ass woman unless he intended maybe to hire a younger actor at first or that's weird anyway and her relationship with dale would blossom into a very deep may december situation a real marriage

[01:31:32] based in deep abiding feelings and respect i aim for characters and situations based in messy and complicated feelings as happens in life i love that and no she was never intended to be a love

[01:31:43] interest for rick as i read somewhere she was never meant to be thrown away as zombie food nor was dale for that matter nor was glenn that's interesting i am a bit like did you not read the

[01:31:54] comics though frank darren about glenn um specifically or something else yeah dale and dale and glenn yeah i'm a bit like and they also never intended to be a love interest for rick i'm like

[01:32:10] yeah and maybe he said this before that even happened i don't know you know it's interesting to know that he you know is saying that about how it was portrayed i i'm intrigued by that thank you

[01:32:22] for sharing it um we've got jemma hall preview for next week because i think jemma's joining us for season three episode two um jemma says this is probably one of my favorite episodes i

[01:32:33] absolutely love it the silence at the beginning sequence is masterful and shows the cohesion of a group that have spent a winter together the present invasion is so captivating intense i must have seen

[01:32:43] it countless times rick keeps pushing the group further and further in but it is working as they are one almost beth singing and then maggie joining in is emotional there's the flirtation

[01:32:53] with darrell and carol that sent fans wild but never me as i know their best friends the tension between like rick and laurie is palpable rory i think it's like and rory i know the words over

[01:33:04] the winter it's life or death now and rick knew he had to bring them in the prison and risk the consequences there's a feeling of relief now when they finally enter the cell block in her safe but

[01:33:14] it doesn't last long and honestly hershel getting bit and the leg chopping was one of the most f'd up things ever love the reveal of the prisoners too the dingy bloody atmosphere really started

[01:33:24] season three with a bang and i remember being so overjoyed and freaked out like yes walking dead is back in the house and it's amazing i can't get enough really oh thanks jemma yeah

[01:33:34] looking forward to talking to you next time definitely here's steve brown hello the cast of us this is steve and this is where season three episode one seed what do they think they are lost

[01:33:45] opening up on a eye opening okay how long has it been the group has gotten a little proficient they got guns with silencers and even carl's walk around with a gun with a silencer on it

[01:33:54] okay it's been quite a bit because laurie's showing quite a bit oh is that the prison that uh rick and daryl are seeing right now and daryl says that's a shame at first but

[01:34:02] that's gonna change oh good shot daryl saving rick it occurs to me this is really how uh they're gonna become persistent this this having to take the prison like this they're gonna be proficient at killing walkers uh her so just use the word seed

[01:34:16] mic drop talking about planting of course so who's daryl calling little shane is that is he calling rick that that doesn't make any sense no forgot about this little flirting between carol and daryl i'm glad it never went anywhere anywhere like romantically with them yeah

[01:34:29] and lauren cohan and emily can you do sound really good together singing and we have the first i'm doing stuff laurie thanks and we have our first glimpse of michonne and i'm assuming laurie's with

[01:34:41] her somewhere shown very proficient with that katana oh and rick takes out the one with the gas mask because they all figured out now they gotta knife them underneath their helmets but so they've secured one cell block and now they can uh be pressed a little bit

[01:34:58] hercel chuckling at beth and carl i don't think there was anything meant by that i think carl's just did it but it's still he's got a little bit of crush on beth maybe carl does i mean okay so

[01:35:07] now we're back to the show and of course we don't know it's michonne yet we haven't heard her speak and we haven't seen laurie yet either hey i keep saying laurie i mean andrea laurie holden is the

[01:35:14] actor okay so how long has it been because laurie uh andrea just said all winter i know rick said something about through the winter of course lucy's probably already explained this when she

[01:35:23] gave the timeline oh i never even thought about that fear of the baby being stillborn in the womb and being a walker ooh everybody's suiting up except rick to go take the next cell block and

[01:35:34] daryl because daryl said he wouldn't wear that stuff oh this is tense with the flashlights and it's dark and all the walkers and now they're separated oh oh and her she just got bit rick

[01:35:44] hacking into her soul's leg oh and we have prisoners and of course that's where the episode ends all right on to next week oh steve steve revisited i love it yeah sounds like he hasn't

[01:35:57] seen it in a while which is when we get to like season 10 will steve live steve the live steve and then we'll like be through the looking glass like he'll listen to his live steve and comment

[01:36:08] on the richard on what he said oh i made a comment about such and such yeah i think like through the looking glass i love it do at least one of those we'll see we'll see how it goes uh billy thompson

[01:36:20] says the opening to this episode really highlights how rough the winter's been for them but also how badass they are now i remember seeing this episode for the first time and thinking damn carl so cool

[01:36:29] now yeah i always wondered what the winter would have been like and would have loved to see it in the show yeah we did too and they had a lot of wintry stuff in the comic and but they just can't

[01:36:39] do it in georgia i know we see a glimpse of this later in the series that's true but would you guys have liked to see it earlier and a bit more fleshed out definitely maybe just a one episode

[01:36:50] recap of the time in between that night on the farm and now or maybe in flashbacks throughout the season i would have loved that seeing daryl with underwear wrapped around his head like they

[01:36:59] do in the comics i forgot about that carol asking darryl if he wanted to screw around was hilarious still can't tell if she was completely joking or maybe would have given it a go in that moment but

[01:37:10] i'm happy they do just end up best friends such an iconic scene when beth sings famously followed up by stuff and thangs michonne's opening scene was incredible all that walker killing was

[01:37:21] awesomeness for two packets of aspirin i'll take it i mean it was yeah it was like all that coolness and like oh badass and the reward was some dog food they don't even want and an owl

[01:37:36] overall one of my favorite episodes for sure we really are starting to head towards peak walking dead now i love it sorry it's a long one but there's so much to talk about this episode

[01:37:44] one last thang i promise my don't get bit t-shirt came yesterday i did show it off in all its glory in the rewatch chat just wanted to say it's brilliant really comfy fits well and came to me

[01:37:55] in the uk a lot faster than scheduled super happy with it i would 100 recommend getting one if anyone's been thinking about it and i guess it helps the show right anyway thanks guys bye well

[01:38:05] yeah so there's uh we had this listener back in the day who was this really cool artist and he drew a few shirts for us one says don't get bit and has a grody looking zombie and another one

[01:38:20] says fuckity fuck fuck not t-dog fuck and it has t-dog on it right and they're really cool and they're on um red bubble and i just kind of forgot about them but they're still up there so uh and i

[01:38:31] didn't even read the set time so i didn't know he was gonna say it but maybe i'll put a link in the show notes if you guys want to um i think um they're almost at cost i think it's just like a

[01:38:40] couple two three dollars above cost or something like that i have one that's you on it like me yeah purple and like you've got headphones on and it's like um it says like podcast network or

[01:38:55] something like that i don't know i didn't make it myself but like for sure bought it i totally don't remember what that is i'll bring it to scotland what did they say next i have two because i anyway this is really boring don't don't include

[01:39:11] the podcast i have two because i accidentally cut one with a pair of scissors when i was trying to get out the envelope and red bubble for some reason we're like is it me or just me just you

[01:39:21] okay i don't know peter always laughs he's like it's really funny that you have jason merch um it was a thing like for right about your birthday no your 50th i don't know okay i'll find a picture i'm only 35 so i don't i don't know yeah that's true

[01:39:40] i'm talking shit uh andrea maitland says hi jason lucy i'm writing in about seed but before i get into that i just want to say how much i enjoyed listening to jason's experience on the show as a

[01:39:51] zombie how fun to be on one of your favorite shows personally i couldn't do it because i would spend the whole time trying to get next to norman reedus aka darrell dixon hey zombie get back to your spot

[01:40:02] anyway as for seed i always thought the opening was so badass all of them communicating without word killing walkers like assassins and organized like some kind of tactical team very cool i loved

[01:40:13] seeing them get to the prison when carol shoots too close to rick from the tower sorry not the killer she will become but it's a start speaking of carol the scene on top of the bus now i know

[01:40:23] the darrell and carol thing is always a black and white thing so don't be mad at me i've always been for them being together so i love this scene but re-watching also made me realize that it's just

[01:40:33] another sign of carol becoming who she becomes it takes a lot of nerve to ask someone if they want to fool around whether she was playing or not good for carol um darrell of course being awkward

[01:40:43] has always brushed it off but this is darrell who threw efficiently as door well moving on to rick and laurie i have to say even though as i've mentioned before i don't like laurie i felt sorry

[01:40:54] for her with her pregnant belly trying to talk to rick she brought it on herself but still it must be so scary to be in her shoes in a zombie apocalypse anyway i could go on about this episode

[01:41:03] but i would be here all day if i sum it up it just really shows how they've all come together and started becoming the family we love as always thank you for your great podcast i listen to others

[01:41:13] sometimes but no one does it like you guys andrea thanks andrea nice all right here's alex kruger hey y'all alex kruger here leaving feedback for the walking dead season three episode one

[01:41:28] seed i love that the episode and the season open up on a close-up of an eye i imagine it's not a nod to lost but i also won't rule out that it's not not a reference to the show and is this it

[01:41:40] they like uh damon lindelof and uh the other guy carl no what's his name anyway lindelof and q's calton q's they had a podcast about lost that i listened to every week and they were really funny

[01:41:54] on there and they were the two showrunners right and they would always joke that there was going to be a seventh zombie season of lost oh that would be fun so i wonder i don't know if this was

[01:42:03] like a nod to that or something i don't know that's great yeah top five cold open in tv history wordless action storytelling comedy and tragedy and letting us know so much right up front these folks are unified they've leveled up their combat skills they're organized

[01:42:19] but they also look like shit carol says it later i think it deserves to be repeated often we ask ourselves what if shane in any number of situations but it never matters because carol

[01:42:30] is entirely right that shane never could have kept them together and alive for seven or so months of nomadic living it wasn't ever going to work although i think rick could loosen up

[01:42:41] in a post-apocalyptic world and appreciate that the dog food is probably a half decent find for the situation right now now it's always fun when a new season begins to get to see where everyone's

[01:42:51] new look is at and my two favorite glow-ups here are first herschel for his late stage gourd george carlin look honestly he looks like chill personified but also glenn i don't remember him

[01:43:02] being so buff or fit last season but he has clearly benefited from endless stab and recoil in zombies heads that must be a top level workout but we get to one yeah this is like a clear change in glenn too

[01:43:14] and i always miss the goofy glenn but he's more the hero now oh yeah you know my favorite characters in the entire series they were teased last season and then shown properly today no not her we'll get

[01:43:29] to michelle i'm talking about the prison in both the comics and the show the prison plays such an important role and so much story is being set up here that won't fully pay off for another five to

[01:43:39] seven seasons the whole organized hand-to-hand clearing of the courtyard in the cell blocks is absolutely brilliant i gotta wonder is there like a good first person shooter out there that plays out the beats of the game i know there's that recent release that lets you rewrite story decisions

[01:43:53] but i mean just a straight play along because how much freaking fun would that be for episodes like this i don't think there is is this the first episode in which we see darryl's iconic poncho

[01:44:03] i can't remember if we saw it last year or not and again while i understand people ship teas of carol and darryl and trust me i see it i get it after all this time it really does feel

[01:44:13] like siblings you know they always have each other's backs totally love each other would do be there no matter what god i love seeing this bond blossom michonne said under 25 words in

[01:44:23] this episode i don't know how important that fact is but i think i'm gonna see how long it takes her to get to 500 words you know for funsies and lastly i have to give the mvp award this week

[01:44:34] to sarah wayne callies and laurie laurie has gotten a ton of hate every time i watch this series but her performance in this episode is truly heartbreaking from trying to get anything out of rick to having horrible childbirth fears of situations more suited for george rr martin's

[01:44:49] realm she had the most moving performance it's a shame her time is almost over yeah but that's it for me this week keep up the good work and as always don't get bit yeah she has one of the most

[01:45:02] moving performances ever in her final scene she really does i'm kind of dreading it embracing herself thanks alice oh it's wonderful i like thank you rachel teal edwards says my god this episode is nearly perfect from the powerfully silent cold open to axel's first appearance and

[01:45:21] everything in between seriously so much happens in this episode it reminds me why we were all so frustrated in later gimple seasons when literally nothing happened for months on end i'm so curious how we're going to react to season seven and eight yeah get to them

[01:45:39] well if we'll find to be interesting to like than we think or not yeah uh and we may end up covering multiple episodes at once if we feel like that's what we should do you know get through it

[01:45:51] i remember watching this episode for the first time and being so excited to see that everyone had grown into capable unafraid badass walker killing machines i love seeing the group in this absolutely ragged state too what a time they must have had there's something about herschel's

[01:46:05] look especially that makes me immediately love him so much more i know i know me too speaking of herschel scott wilson is flawless in this episode did you notice when he says the part

[01:46:14] oh i love him his request for beth to sing is so genuine and pure that scene feels incongruous but i think that's the point he's great in the way i don't know why is it incongruous incongruous

[01:46:28] because they're singing i thought it was nice i don't know yeah tell me what you mean by that it was a human moment i feel like yeah take a little moment to have a little joy every once

[01:46:40] um he's great in conversation with lori too quote you know who doesn't give a shit about that the vulgarity herschel my goodness the road has changed you and of course the walker bite who

[01:46:51] could forget such horror what a phenomenal actor if anyone is interested and doesn't already know emily kinney's song i went looking for you is about scott wilson i did not know that she wrote

[01:47:02] it after his passing have tissues ready oh i'm starting to cry right now i actually have a decent amount of sympathy for lori this week she's obviously terrified with good reason and it

[01:47:11] seems rick closed himself off to her completely after the events of last episode rick decided that the only priority is keeping everyone alive and finding a safe place marriage things are a luxury

[01:47:21] he doesn't have the capacity for or maybe he just doesn't have anything nice to say so he's not saying anything at all as lori suspects both scenes of the group clearing out the prison yard

[01:47:30] are so satisfying but i especially love the way they methodically work their way through in a back to back circle in the morning it makes me think hell yes they kind of have their shit together now

[01:47:39] and should not be messed with and they do the same thing in alexandria in season six i love it then too final thoughts one the daryl carol scene is so cringe i fucking brace myself for it every time

[01:47:50] these different people react to that very differently uh to lori holden plays sick really well like i had to remind myself she was acting oh she went and made out with someone with a flu for that scene because she's method that's what this is actually where kovat started

[01:48:06] three i'm just kidding about that by the way three the face getting ripped off the prison guard is so sick for the last six minutes are basically the best horror movie i've ever seen holy shit

[01:48:17] my thoughts exactly axel nice rachel i've really been enjoying their emails yeah it's always good to hear from you and we got one more call and it's from renee renee hi guys this is renee

[01:48:31] calling in from fever about the walking dead i hate to admit it but this is the very first episode that i felt a little sympathy for lori i mean she is nine months pregnant that baby bump they need

[01:48:46] to whoever did that baby bump that look horrible that looks it looks horrible it does not look real they they uh they need to get fired whoever did that that was that's awful but i did have

[01:48:58] sympathy for her because you know nine months pregnant you out in the wilderness running here there and rick you know but it's her fault it's her fault so you know and then of course darryl

[01:49:09] brought me back down to reality when he said a little shane has worked up quite a big appetite it's like darryl you ruined it for her like girl you are horrible everyone there knows that shane

[01:49:21] is your baby daddy awful awful awful awful but that allows me to sageway into darryl darryl oh my god his arc is super amazing to me i never paid darryl any attention um because i'm

[01:49:37] like you jason this is my first time ever doing a rewatch of the walking dead and i did not notice darryl because he was always dirty he was always gruff he was always a loner i just did not pay

[01:49:52] darryl any attention darryl's art to me is the best ever because he went from being a loner just you i couldn't even tell really whether he was a part of the group until actually this episode

[01:50:04] because it's like every time rick made a move he would call darryl and i realized the bromance started actually in this episode for me also michonne and rick when i watched it the first

[01:50:20] time i was like oh they look so cute together i wish they get together but now i noticed that whenever rick and laurie get into argument they cut to michonne i noticed that last time and i

[01:50:31] noticed this time and i noticed when they made it inside the prison rick smeared down the wall and they cut to michonne so evidently they've been shipping them for a long time i've been shipping

[01:50:42] them just because i think they look cute together but um maggie rey oh she bad like that i love maggie rey seriously this is this is my episode i fell in love with her as well because she's a

[01:50:53] bad girl and jason this is what i wanted to say to you as far as michonne last week he was like ronald's with you until you said that michonne took care of his kids took care of rick's kids

[01:51:04] michonne did take care of rick's kids she did make sure rick's kids were good now did she leave them to go and find their father yes she did which is what i would have did as well because she left them

[01:51:18] with darrell she left them with rosita uh gabriel carol um father gabriel carol king aziko she left them in good hands and she didn't know that she was going to be gone that long because even in the

[01:51:33] ones who lived she was saying do you think i'm not beating myself over the fact that i haven't left my kids that i left my kids for you but she didn't know that she was going to be gone that long i

[01:51:43] think she had she thought she was gonna come you know she's gonna come back and you know whatever but she ended up being out there so for a very long time but i would have did the same thing if

[01:51:53] something happened to my husband and i got an inkling something some type of sign that he was out there i'm going to get my man i'm going to get my husband and bring him back to his children which

[01:52:06] is what she did so i'm okay with that i thought but again i respect that you that you felt totally different um jason all right talk to you guys later peace and love bye bye renee it's all the

[01:52:20] crm's fault it's all the crm let's just blame the crm and scheduling conflicts all right that is our show episode 586 thanks for listening everybody that's a good one next episode walking dead season three episode two sick it's a sick ass episode don't be sick um

[01:52:48] if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcast.com and while you're there please check out our other podcasts like i

[01:52:57] mentioned wendy renee and veronica put out their episode covering house of the dragon season two episode one a son for a son which i personally thought was quite an episode i thought it was

[01:53:05] great yeah yeah i don't know if i'm in a different mood or if it was better but i didn't really love the first season it was good but i wasn't getting into it but for some reason i was really getting

[01:53:15] into this episode maybe it's just i don't even want to say because i don't want to give it away but yeah anyway um also uh there should be an episode of let it rip up there in the coming days yep

[01:53:28] yep that'll be good the bear one with lucy and peter yeah we'll be just talking about bears to talk about rar and i also want to mention strange indeed had been on a month's long break

[01:53:40] but lately rima and peck have been back covering the third and final season of sweet tooth on netflix so it's really good to have them back oh nice that's nice yeah and this episode has been

[01:53:50] made possible by patreon supporters like veronica brothers who pledge their support at patreon.com slash jason cabassi so thank you to veronica if you guys have been enjoying the rewatch and want to help support the podcasting i appreciate it all right that is our show thanks for listening

[01:54:08] don't get bit fiona jennifer neil of all the money era had i spent it in good company and all the harm the air i've ever done alas it was to none but me me and all i've done for one tough way to memory now i can't recall

[01:54:49] so feel to me parting glass good night and joy be with you all oh all the comrades the air i had were sorry for my going away and all the sweet hearts

[01:55:19] would wish me one more day to stay but since it falls unto my law that i should rise and you should not i'll gently rise and i'll softly call good night and joy be with you all good night and joy be with you all