587: "Sick" (TWD S3E2 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. This is the Cast of Us episode 587. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead season 3 episode 2, Sick. Sick burn. We have a special guest with us today. It's Gemma Hall. Welcome Gemma. Hi Gemma.

[00:01:29] Hi, thank you for having me. Gemma has given a lot of feedback going way back. Frequent feedback giver. One of the biggest Rick Grimes fans I know, which I think is really cool, did a handful

[00:01:44] of Fear the Walking Dead roundtable rants with me on Patreon, which was a lot of fun. And I actually met you both Gemma and Lucy together for the first time at Walker Stalker London years ago now. Yeah, we've all been in the same room. 2016. Yeah.

[00:02:03] It's almost 10 years ago. Oh, don't. 10 years? Wow. 8 years. Yeah, a lot's happened. We got the ones who live. So I asked you which one you wanted to do and your first choice was the premiere, but this was your second choice.

[00:02:21] So what was it about this episode that made you choose it? I think it's just like the intensity of the prison. And I remember when the season came back and I don't know, I think you were saying last week that it's just the height of Walking Dead.

[00:02:35] And it was the intensity and like the fear. And I was really frightened. I was pregnant at the time with my second. And yeah, I know. So I've watched episode four. And I was just a few weeks short of my due date.

[00:02:50] I remember it was like early November, and he was born on the 14th of November. And I was absolutely petrified that I was gonna have to go through a C-section like that.

[00:03:00] But yeah, so it's just the intensity and those like Rick moments and yeah, and the gore and stuff. It was a good one. It was thrilling. Yeah. So well, let's get into it. Walking Dead season three, episode two, sick. Why is it called sick?

[00:03:14] Anyways, I was gonna ask you guys this. Why is it called sick? I looked at the wiki and I because one of the characters say when they go outside and see all the bodies like dead bodies, they go sick. I think it's Oscar.

[00:03:27] He goes, Oh, sick or something like that. So that's why I called it sick. According to the wiki. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Well, if he says it, that makes total sense. So what did you think? Well, you just kind of said what you thought.

[00:03:39] Do you have anything else to say in general about it before we get into our points, Gemma? I just reckon Lloyd's relationship and I'll touch on my point. So yeah. Lucy, what about you? How's it to watch this one again? Oh, I enjoyed it.

[00:03:54] It kind of merges into episodes one and four because in three, I don't think we're in the prison at all. It was fun to remember exactly what happened in this episode and how high the stakes were.

[00:04:06] And it's so bleak in retrospect, not just seeing how Laurie is in this episode, but also watching Rick let Andrew go and the repercussions that's going to have. I was like, no, don't do that. Dummy. Don't do that.

[00:04:25] I thought, yeah, this episode has that Walking Dead thing where, you know, Walking Dead is interesting because it draws in all kinds of fans, horror fans and drama fans and character fans, people who thought they would never want to watch horror.

[00:04:40] One thing about a horror movie is it's kind of, some would say sickly thrilling because you're watching people die and you're like rooting for or you're yelling at them, don't be so stupid or whatever. But it's all thrilling.

[00:04:55] But a character drama, you're getting caught up in the feelings of it. You know, you're like, oh my God, you know, Herschel is sick. And this has kind of both of those going on at the same time.

[00:05:06] You're operating on two different levels, I feel like, you know, especially with Herschel where you're like, oh my God, it's so touching that they're afraid and also he's going to bite your face off. So and they're really playing with that in an interesting way.

[00:05:18] So that's one reason why I really liked it. Also the dynamics with the prisoners and seeing how our characters handle them. And yeah, I loved it. Yeah, we really care about them. And I think, I don't know, we've been with them so long.

[00:05:33] And I think this season coming back and it's such a scary place. And you just have so much feeling for this character. It's just like, it's painful when we start to lose them. Definitely. Yeah.

[00:05:45] And it's like they've been a little bit coddled up until now in a way at the farm and now they're like out into the scary world. And so it's like, holy shit, how are they going to handle it? So let's get into our points.

[00:05:57] Gemma, what do you got first? I wanted to say about the state of Rick and Laurie's relationship. The ending scene, I think as well, is like the calm before the storm really, but it's such a sad point where they are at their relationship.

[00:06:15] And even the touching on divorce, I think I've got the line here. Oh yeah, Laurie says, for better or for worse, right? I mean, what are we going to do, hire a lawyer and get divorced and split our assets? So I think if the apocalypse hadn't happened.

[00:06:28] Shona's a lawyer, who do you think? Oh yeah. She literally turned that like soon. If the apocalypse hadn't happened, then I think they would have got divorced because they were having those conversations like at the beginning or the flashback that we saw.

[00:06:44] But literally, in this world, it's like death do us part. So there's literally the only way out of this for both is death. And the next, unfortunately, I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't seen it, but that's what happens.

[00:06:57] So there's a sad for Rick because he doesn't even look at her on this bridge. Like they have a conversation, it's so tense. He can't make eye contact. He does touch her briefly, but she's like, oh, I thought you were coming out here to

[00:07:08] talk about us and he can't. And I think when we see future episodes, he keeps revisiting this place and seeing her on the bridge at this. And I think he missed this opportunity of actually talking to her. But I think their relationship is over, you know? Yeah.

[00:07:24] Even if she wasn't. No spoilers because this is a rewatch. It's the idea that everyone knows what's going to happen. So yeah, even if she wasn't about to die in a couple episodes, I would question whether this relationship is over or not.

[00:07:38] It feels like it's over to me. And then literally Michonne, like I said, turning up 24 hours later. I know they don't get together for seasons and years, but I think that's really important because she comes in to fill this role.

[00:07:52] And then we see the difference of how he is in these two relationships. So you've got the coldness and they can't get over what happened with Shane, whether it's the affair or his death or from both sides, you know, what happened.

[00:08:04] And then you got Michonne's like this huge love story that comes in for Rick and you can see the difference between the two mothers of his children. And like, you know, the one to live is like passion and fire and just all the fire themes. Yeah.

[00:08:19] The fire that was in the ones to live, all the redness and stuff, you know, you've got this like complete comparison. So yeah, it's sad for Rick. But yeah, I think she needed to go. I didn't want it to go. Oh my God.

[00:08:32] I mean, I think that episode, episode four is brutal and it's horrible for everybody. But there was no future for Rick and Laurie, I think. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so.

[00:08:42] Lucy, why don't we just talk about this and then you and I can go on to new points after that. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, absolutely. You want to go first? Yeah, I think the scene on the bridge.

[00:08:53] This is last week, Jason, I got confused about when stuff and things happened and I was sure it happened on the bridge, but my brain had merged two scenes together. So apologies. I'm sorry if he does only say it once. I just feel so bad for Laurie.

[00:09:07] Like I feel so bad for her. She's trying so hard in this episode, like she's literally like a repentant woman in all of this. And I just almost started crying when like, she's like sniffing at her shoulder after Rick leaves.

[00:09:22] It's clearly the first thing that's touched her since they argued and she's so touch starved and she must be terrified and she's just had to like resuscitate the guy who can deliver her baby who's now only got one leg. Like it's, it's just awful.

[00:09:39] And earlier in the episode, you know, she says, Oh, what's that excellent quote that she says about herself where she's like, I know that I'm a shitty wife and I'm not winning any mother of the year awards.

[00:09:49] And you know, poor Laurie, because like, she's not the worst wife or the worst mother in the walking dead by a long shot. And Rick kind of saying for the record, I don't think you're a bad mother is like in

[00:10:01] one sense quite sweet, but in other sense as she picks up on pretty damning indictment of her as a wife and they're just so estranged from each other and it's just horrible to watch horrible to watch that scene and see that and I just have such appreciation for

[00:10:18] Sarah Wayne Callies and what she does with that character and making us sympathetic for her in this season. I don't feel anger towards her anymore or frustration. Like I think she knows she fucked up and is trying to fix it.

[00:10:31] And you see that when she's saying to Rick, like do what you have to do and not for one second do I think there's malice in your heart and do it with a clear conscience. Like she's trying to say to him like, it's okay. I get it.

[00:10:44] She's behind him. Yeah. And he's just like, well you see this? No. And I'm like, yeah, okay. I can understand why you would say that, but also she is trying and she's pregnant and like give her a break. So yeah, poor Rick and Laurie.

[00:10:56] This is not, it's not a good time. I think pregnancy is like a visual reminder for Rick, not just the fact that she was unfaithful, but it's like a ticking time bomb because he's had to bring them into this prison that's

[00:11:10] like really unsafe and you know, just had the same thing happen with Hirschel and it's like a, I think it's a pressure for him. It's like building, you know, that he doesn't know what to do in such an unsafe place, you know? Yeah. Like a bomb. Absolutely.

[00:11:24] So who's the worst wife? I was trying to think. Oh, good question. I don't know. There aren't a lot of wives, but I think Laurie might actually be the worst one. Oh no! I don't know. I can't. Maybe somebody will bring up another, another one that's worse.

[00:11:38] I'm sure there must be. I didn't like Jessie much. Jessie kind of sucked. Jessie. Yeah. Let's go for it. I don't know. We'll think of one. I mean, but her husband was even worse than her. Yeah, that's true. Hal was very good to Ezekiel, was she?

[00:11:53] She was not the most… Fair point. … nice person for Ezekiel. Yeah. Fair point. Yep. Yep. I'll take it. Hal was the worst wife. So, so yeah, I mean, I think, like I said last week, Rick is not handling this well and,

[00:12:10] and he needs to communicate even if to say, look, I'm confused right now. I don't know what I think. I need some time and space, you know, he kind of did say that, but in a really dickish way,

[00:12:23] you know, he, he, he needs to take the time to figure it out too. It's been seven months. So I think that's enough time to figure it out actually. And he should say, look, I'm sorry, but I, I can't be your husband anymore or I'm not,

[00:12:38] we can't be together. I still will take care of you and protect you and the baby, but I don't feel connected to you anymore. I mean, of course that wouldn't be, this is like my version of the psychologically healthy

[00:12:51] thing to do that wouldn't make good TV at all or good drama. But I just think that he's like just being a dick and it's his own, like sometimes, like, like I said, I think last week too, he's just focused on action because he doesn't want

[00:13:07] to face this kind of thing. But anyway, like I don't blame him for feeling the way he does. I mean, when she says, you know, what are your options? And Rick says, kill them.

[00:13:16] And she says, if, if you think that's what you think is best and he goes, you say this now and I just think, I'm glad they put that in there because it really drives home the

[00:13:25] point that her reaction to him killing Shane was so detrimental to him, made him feel betrayed. You know, she, he did that in part because of what she said and then she reacted with

[00:13:38] disdain and I, if I put myself in that situation, I might just leave her too. Like, oh man, I just killed my friend because of what you said partly. And now this is how you're acting. I killed my friend. That's it. We're done.

[00:13:53] And then now she's whispering to him, just like in the tent, I know you're not a killer. There's no malice in your heart, but do what you have to do to keep this group safe and do it with a clear conscience. I'd be like, yeah, sure.

[00:14:02] Whatever, Lori, like I'm not going to trust you anymore. It's like, I don't mean this towards you at all, but Lucy with the football is what I always think of. Yeah, that Lucy. That's who I was named after though.

[00:14:13] That's literally who I was named after, which I find really funny. I'm like, yeah, it is me. And then, I mean, it's interesting. She's extending it. He's extending it all the way to her, you know, saying, um, I don't think you're a bad mother.

[00:14:28] I don't think he's doing that to suggest she's a bad wife. That is what comes of it. But I think he really just wants to say, look, I think you're a good mother. And then, well, wife is a different story for better or for worse, right?

[00:14:40] I mean, what are we going to do? Hire lawyers, get divorced and split our assets. I'm like, yeah, it's not a given that you'll stay together. And I think watching this the first time, I thought eventually they would work it out. But now I think Rick's done.

[00:14:54] And emotionally check out. I think he doesn't want to be there anymore. And he points out that Herschel would be dead if not for Laurie. He's trying to be nice. And then she says, I thought you were coming out here to talk to us.

[00:15:07] Maybe there's nothing to talk about anymore. I think that the subtext of that is, do you still want to be with me? And then he pats her on the shoulder and says, we're awful grateful for what you did. The subtext of that is no, I don't. Yeah.

[00:15:21] It's when you put it like that. Yeah. Oh, geez, a pat on the shoulder. Yeah. I mean, to be charitable to him. He's trying to say, look, I don't want to be with you anymore, but I do. I am here for you. But he should say that.

[00:15:38] No subtext. Just say it. You know? Oh, Rick. So that's what I think about all that. So now that we talked that out, let's have Lucy go to a fresh point. Uh, sure. So I had forgotten that the prisoners are like a little time capsule.

[00:15:58] They don't know what the fuck has happened. I love it. And I kind of love that, especially with the group having become as slick as they have. It's really fun to play with this idea that this group of like feral men just don't know

[00:16:11] what the fuck's going on and vulnerable. They're supposed to be the tough ones. And from their perspective, like there's a line halfway through the episode. Is it Thomas or Tomaso? I think it's Tomas. Tomas. Tomas. Tomas. Yeah.

[00:16:26] I think Tomas halfway through the episode is like, why didn't you just take him to a hospital about Herschel? And then you realize, oh shit, they really don't know. And it's that visual of the prisoners looking at the leg when the group have disappeared

[00:16:39] from the room again with the like makeshift gurney. Like what a way to be woken out of your little kind of zombie coma and not knowing what's happening. But what did they think?

[00:16:49] Like because he says the reason why they didn't like remove the door is because whenever they start doing that, the zombies congregate around the outside. So they know that the guards left them there and have been gone for 10 months and that there's monsters outside.

[00:17:03] So do they think, yeah, the world's fine, but they're just like, well, that's the monster prison. So we need to stay away from that. Honestly, I think Axel probably does. I think they thought it was just a prison. Yeah. Yeah. I think Axel would fully believe that.

[00:17:13] He'd be like, yeah, that's for sure what happened. Like, yeah, it's wild. And just the way that they have to like school them and stuff. And then they're like, oh, I'm not going to go to jail. And then they're like, oh, I'm not going to go to jail.

[00:17:19] And just the way that they have to like school them and stuff. And you see, again, by contrast, how good our group is. And so the prisoners I've written, they're kind of like little babies. Like they were locked up.

[00:17:33] So we find out they were locked up for 10 months in the cafeteria. There was one guard looking out for them who threw them a gun and told them to stay put. He disappeared.

[00:17:42] He must have been a good guard because we see later that one of the cellblocks, everyone was just executed. Like everyone was shot in the head by someone. And I'm annoyed at Axel because he screwed up the timeline because the timeline is now

[00:17:57] approximate because Axel says it's been 294 days and I think Big Tiny says 292 days. Which is it? It's only a two day difference. Only a two day difference. Yeah, that's okay. I thought you were going to say they're like a month off or something.

[00:18:12] No, the official timeline then says it's 296 days. So like my maths is all off. I'm impressed that it's not further off. If listeners can imagine that gif of the guy with the conspiracy theory wall, that's me with the timeline. Like oh no.

[00:18:28] So they literally take the prisoners outside to show them what's happened. Rick, I mean Rick this time he's learned his lesson, tells them upfront we're all infected. And Axel says like AIDS or something and they explain the mechanics of it.

[00:18:44] Yeah, and the negotiations for land with Tomas of you've got more food than you've got choices. I did love Tomas jumping up to like I've got personal artifacts in there that says in the law that it's mine. I'm like he knows the law. That's cool.

[00:19:01] But yeah generally I just thought it was great kind of seeing different ways that people have survived and how they've been in this little bubble. Obviously the toilet cupboard is horrifying. I spent a lot of time today how horrible the toilet cupboard with 296 days worth of human

[00:19:18] waste and it would smell. And I'm amazed Rick didn't actually throw up. So well, they really made that dramatic because you know some writer was like, well, how do they go to the bathroom? And then they just made this dramatic moment out of it.

[00:19:33] And then Axel's like, I just wrote my own part to prison. I'm like, yeah, literally. Yeah, no shit. Literally the training that they get with the weapons is a really interesting kind of scene where we see the group teaching them what they know about staying in formation.

[00:19:52] Just go for the brain. And then obviously there's the comedic scene of the corridors where they just go mental. It's like as Rick calls it prison riot crap. I thought that was silly because there's three people that say you need to get them in the

[00:20:08] brain and they know they've heard them growling outside. They've seen the cannibalistic behavior. So to not at least I mean then they just go start beating them like prison and shaking them prison riot style and it made for a fun scene.

[00:20:23] But you'd think at least one of them would take that to heart and try for the brain. But they do learn. They do learn pretty quick. Yeah. Yeah. But Tomas is like, we know how to do it.

[00:20:34] Did you notice he held his gun sideways like Shane told Jimmy not to in season two? Oh no, I didn't know that. I thought it was interesting how they set up Oscar and Axel as being the most competent of the prisoners as well.

[00:20:50] They're kind of being set apart a little bit subtly but they're set apart from the others as being able to step up. I'm always really distracted with Axel because Jason can confirm or deny.

[00:21:02] Did they intend for Axel to have his comic book storyline or was he always just going to be a bumbling pumpkin? They intended for him to lure Beth out into the woods and be a serial killer and kill her. Oh my gosh.

[00:21:17] I'm not, I don't know when they changed their mind. I think it was into the writing of the season. So I think maybe I'm wrong about this but I think during this episode the intention was for him to turn out to have been a serial killer.

[00:21:32] I could be wrong about that but anyway at some point they changed their mind and said no that's too bleak and he just ended up being a good guy which I thought was pretty cool.

[00:21:40] And then the way he did die which is very sudden, he's walking along with Carol who they kind of had a chemistry going and he just gets shot in the head and it's like oh my god any life could be taken at any moment.

[00:21:50] He does hit on her though in a future episode. He's sitting too close to her and they stare and he says something suggestive and Carol pulls him aside and she's like don't look at her. So I'm wondering if they were still thinking of that around the time.

[00:22:03] Oh he hits on Beth? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's sitting really close to her like almost like this. I just held my hand up in front of my face. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think in the comic books he is a paedophile and child murderer.

[00:22:22] And I think that story would have been really interesting with Axel to have him turn out to be because he seems the most harmless and he says he likes his pharmaceuticals.

[00:22:37] You know so you think he's in jail for drugs which now the way the story turned out probably was. But the idea was that no he's a serial killer. That would have been a really interesting thrilling story.

[00:22:48] But I kind of like the way it did turn out to that. I actually started to like him by the end and be sad when he was gone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean because in the comics he I'm just double checking this.

[00:23:01] He's this big dude with a beard in the comics. Yeah he's a big dude with a beard. Yeah. And I think I like him very better as he is in the show. I think Lou Temple plays him really well. I have a lot of time for Oscar.

[00:23:18] I always felt Oscar got killed off way too soon. Yeah. I love that. He's a sweetheart. And the contrast between the two of them where Axel's like begging for his life and he's like I want to be live. I want to live.

[00:23:30] And Oscar's just like if you're going to kill me you're going to kill me. I'm just begging for my life. Yeah. Yeah. He's like I'm not doing it. You can see you can see Rick's kind of like respect. Yeah that might have been what saved Axel's life. Yeah.

[00:23:45] So Oscar and Axel are kind of quickest to kind of get how to kill the zombies. With Big Tiny have we had it confirmed in canon that that scratch would have killed him? Have we ever seen anyone die from a scratch?

[00:24:01] I mean it was a gross scratch like it was a bone scratch but I'm interested. Only that Morgan said have you been bit scratched anything like that. But yeah I don't think we can take that as a confirmation that a scratch will turn you into a Zed.

[00:24:16] I think not actually. Well we'll never find out because of Tommaso. He didn't get bitten? He didn't get bitten. Oh he only got scratched. No he got scratched. I think I remember talking about that back in the day now at this point.

[00:24:27] So you see a walker's hand slip off like the whole hand slips off and it's just the bones that are left. He scratches him with the bones. Disgusting. Well I think I hated watching that yesterday because I can't watch it. Oh I love it. Brutal.

[00:24:38] So brutal and I think that is when Tommaso signs his death warrant is when he beats Big Tiny to death like that. That death was horrible. But to me like because Rick was he saying we can chop his arm off?

[00:24:59] And then Big Tiny was like I'm fine I'm not going to turn into one of those things like how do you know? Then you're like okay is Rick going to have to kill him and then the other prisoners are

[00:25:09] just going to be totally anti-Rick because they don't know anything about any of this and they won't trust him. So that when Tommaso did that I thought okay it's good that one of their own did that. So then it's not a big issue.

[00:25:20] It was just the way he did it. It wasn't necessary. It was like a full on boom. You know like his head was gone and it was a brutality. His face went like black. I don't know why I didn't even think about that but you're so right. Yeah.

[00:25:27] It was feral. It was like that's what Rick and Daryl are saying is did you see the look on his face? Yeah. But I don't think that's when he signed his death warrant. I think it was when he tried to attack Rick. They were considering it though.

[00:25:33] I think if he. They were considering it. They were waiting for it. They were considering it. But they were I mean who knows maybe Rick had plans to make the first move but Tommaso just went for it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:41] I mean I think it's a good thing that he was able to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:59] I mean I think Tommaso's just went first but I don't I would guess that no they were just waiting to see if the prisoners were going to do anything and they were ready for it and they did so. Yeah. I agree.

[00:26:08] And yeah that brings me nicely to the end which is yeah Tommaso swipes at Rick with his weapon. He also pushes a walker at him and then he gets a machete to the head and then Rick chases

[00:26:20] Andrew who's because Andrew the impression we get is that Andrew's a wrong and like he's a he's a bad guy but Rick leaves him out with the walkers ostensibly to die. Probably should have double tapped that one Rick but here we are.

[00:26:36] But it's interesting that Rick looks doubtful about what he's done as he's walking away. You can see on his face that he's not. He hears screams. I think he's more like did I do the right thing there? That's my take on it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:50] That's what I mean is he's not sure about what he's done. He's like did I was that right? Got it. I'm very confused about how Andrew survived. Like very confused especially making all that fucking noise. It's just one of those things. Like whatever it's cool.

[00:26:57] He had an identical twin. I checked the Walking Dead wiki again. Apparently when he's screaming you can hear like the chain link fence or something. You can hear him climb over but you're so busy listening to him screaming you're not listening for the chain link fence.

[00:27:02] I don't know if this is right or not but yeah I assumed he was dead. It's one of those things that the woman in misery played by Kathy Bates. Oh man.

[00:27:28] Well in the red and the laundry room we get a bit of Red Rick because he's furious at Axel and Oscar. As I say they play that scene very differently and then they take them to the cell block.

[00:27:46] I did laugh when Axel was like they were good men and I'm like they were all in prison. Like literally all of them. Some of them probably were good men but like you know. I like that because I like the idea that you know.

[00:28:01] Our reaction is these guys are prisoners. They're bad. They are bad in some ways probably. Some of them may have been convicted wrongly. You don't know. We don't know. That's true.

[00:28:14] But also people are complex and you know like say Axel he had a drug problem and who knows what he did to satisfy that. But that doesn't mean that he didn't have a lot of other good qualities about him.

[00:28:26] And so anyway I just like the idea because they're going to stay in a prison. So yes bring in some prisoners then have all of our complicated feelings about them and challenge those you know to a degree.

[00:28:35] And I think especially if you're in a prison and you get to know your fellow prison mates then you will recognize good qualities about different people. And yeah maybe to say they're good men is I don't know man. They did something bad but.

[00:28:49] I just look at everyone's face of like. Did you watch Orange is the New Black? Yes. Yeah. Such a good show. Yeah. So there's so many different types of prisoners in that show and they did they do different

[00:29:02] things don't they from you know very basic to like murder. Different levels of character yeah too. Yeah. And some of them are really great people. So yeah I love that show. Me too. I love that show.

[00:29:15] I just wondered if Axel reminded Daryl of a gentle Merle or somebody like Daryl we'd have grown up with because Daryl when he says sorry about your friends man he means it like

[00:29:26] he does mean it and I wonder if for Daryl there is a bit of like I could have been on the other side of this. I could be in the prison and I thought that was a nice moment.

[00:29:34] Maybe he's known tough guys and he can relate or something. Well he's way he's better with them than Rick is in many ways like teaching them what to do and keeping them in check a little bit like they seem to listen to respond to him a little

[00:29:45] bit more. And I love the fact that he was standing with his crossbow ready while everyone else was in with Laurie and Herschel and that waiting for the prisoners to come because he knew they would come to see what was going on.

[00:29:59] And I thought it was very interesting that Rick and understandable that Rick never really shows the prisoners who's beyond the gate so they don't know that it's essentially women and children and an old man. That's interesting.

[00:30:12] And think about that because I kept thinking wonder how the women why aren't the women there to see how they would handle it because there's all this posturing going on and trying

[00:30:19] to be assert assertion of dominance and I'm like why aren't the I want to see what the women but I think you're right they kept everybody else aside on purpose. But I think you know just that there is it's like at least what we've learned from watching

[00:30:34] prison movies and TV shows and from what I've read is at least somewhat based on reality that you go into prison and you need to like do something to show that you're someone to be respect or reckoned with so that people don't fuck with you.

[00:30:50] You know who knows how true that is. I think it's generally must be some truth to it. So that's what Tomas is doing and Rick too. They're both just posturing so they both know not to mess with each other. And who knows how necessary that is.

[00:31:04] I kind of wonder is Rick just asking to have an enemy here or is this what he absolutely needs to do in order not to get killed. You know I don't know. Because you see those moments where the guys are trying to be like nice and friendly and

[00:31:16] like Tomas was just like are we done sucking each other's dicks or something or swinging I don't remember what he says but yeah I thought that was he's amazing. I mean I know I love that they're like there's not much food left.

[00:31:34] They said it twice and then when you get to the food there's a shit ton. Yeah. I bet they were rationing either. They were just eating. So a couple of things that came up for me while you were saying your point is that yeah

[00:31:47] like it's interesting throughout The Walking Dead Rick and his crew encounter people and they seem dangerous because of what they've been through. And I think this is the first instance of that. Maybe with Herschel a little bit but not really you know Herschel encountered them because

[00:32:05] Oda shot Carl and they just seemed worried you know more than anything and Herschel was wary of them but more because he didn't want them to discover what was in the barn I would think then that they seemed sketchy at all.

[00:32:16] But here is so there's really the first time where their first interaction with these people is they drag this old guy in here chop his fucking leg off and then drag the man off and leave them alone with a severed leg. Is so baller like what a move.

[00:32:31] What Rick would be king of the prison. He'd be king of the fucking prison. That was the dominance move right there. And then the other thing is Rick tells Tomas that at least half the population was wiped out probably more.

[00:32:51] But according to Robert Kirkman at least in the comic he said only about one point six million people survived which is about point oh two percent of the world's population at a time. So ninety eight point oh eight percent died which is hard to imagine that means billions

[00:33:08] of Zed's and Kirkman said there are vast dead zones out there. Yeah scary like Texas. So my turn right. Yes so so dealing with the prisoners. So I think it's a great idea to have prisoners left in this prison for high drama and our

[00:33:32] first reaction is oh these are bad people. And Darryl's got seems to have the same reaction he's waiting there with his crossbow when they first go in and drag Herschel off. I say his line there or yeah what I love. So here you go. Right. So congrats fellas.

[00:33:50] You've been pardoned by the state of Georgia. You're free to go. And I don't blame them for being cautious. I mean for one thing anyone is potential danger in zombie apocalypse but these are prisoners

[00:34:04] and you don't know what crimes they committed what kind of people they are and that's what makes it thrilling to watch. And then then they have the story challenge that a little which I love and it's a good

[00:34:12] story for Rick too because he was a cop and he probably sent a few guys here you know to to this prisoner to ones like it. I don't know if I realize this when we were covering this first time but this is presenting

[00:34:25] Rick with the same kind of problem we had to deal with on the farm because there's Herschel zombie relatives in the barn and that's a threat and do we keep that or neutralize it

[00:34:37] and then Randall comes along another threat deciding what to do with him now we have the prisoners and but now with this thing of Rick taking on the characteristics of his enemies that he vanquishes maybe we wonder if he'll handle it how Shane would have more

[00:34:53] so that's kind of what I had in my mind watching through this and he's dealing with a lot he's trying to size them up decide how cutthroat or how compassionate he wants to be also thinking

[00:35:05] how he could turn the situation to his advantage and trying to assert dominance to have control over the situation using prison logic and so that's where he goes up against Tomas who's doing the same thing and wants to claim his territory and it's this whole prison world

[00:35:23] that he's used to having to be tough and and you brought up orange the new black like you think maybe this is just like a man thing but they do similar things on that show you

[00:35:31] know where it's all women maybe not quite the same flavor but similar asserting dominance and claiming their territory and stuff like that um and Genji Kohan is the showrunner of that based on Piper Kerman's memoir it's a great show I thought so good so yeah so then

[00:35:49] they start negotiating and Tomas agrees to move to another cell block in exchange for weapons which turns out to be like clubs and stuff Rick doesn't give them any guns and Rick wants half

[00:36:01] the food from the cafeteria and when Tomas said there's only a little left and Rick said we'll take half I got a chill down my spine and then I think okay that's that's a pretty

[00:36:21] good deal for the prisoners given the situation that Rick's going to help them clear out this block which means putting himself in danger and killing more Zed's and so I don't know I feel

[00:36:39] like this shows the difference between Rick and Negan when Rick takes half it's part of a negotiation where at least apparently both sides have choice and Rick is putting himself at risk

[00:36:50] giving something back to help clear out the space for them and letting them stay there with him and he only asks for half even though his group Rick's group has twice more than twice as many

[00:37:01] people and when Negan takes half there's no choice involved he kills one of their people so someone's for sure gonna die with Negan's way actually maybe sometimes he didn't but I think a lot of times he

[00:37:12] just went in and killed one person just to show you know that he was dominant and so when Rick says to Tomas I'll kill you if you go near my people that's his version of that he threatens

[00:37:24] him but Negan's version is to actually kill someone and then I was thinking what if Shane were here like he would have either insisted that these convicts leave or more likely just

[00:37:35] killed them right off the bat because if there's one thing we know about Shane he doesn't stand for letting threats hang around and if he let them go they may just come back same as with Randall

[00:37:44] so at this when that was going through my head I was thinking well we know that this guy Andrew who lets the zombies out that end up trapping Laurie away from Herschel and Carol who could

[00:37:58] have maybe helped her in childbirth then I do think there's at least somewhat of a chance that Laurie would have survived longer if Shane would have been there because Shane probably would have

[00:38:07] just killed them all you know but then yeah but then going through it so they're going they're clearing out the cell block the tensions are high they don't trust each other they're watching out

[00:38:18] for if someone's gonna make a move and then Tomas opens both doors instead of just one to create chaos then slashes at Rick and then throws a zombie at him and I don't blame Rick at all nope

[00:38:32] you're dead iconic machete to the head so then but then so Rick Andrew runs off actually so yeah so he runs off and and Rick locks him out with the zombies I don't think season 2 Rick would

[00:39:00] have done that he thought he did kill him there I think and I feel like that is a little bit of Shane's influence and I went back and looked all Andrew did was raise his bat to Rick after Rick

[00:39:12] killed his friend and then Andrew ran away I'm like that's a pretty reasonable response I could definitely see myself doing the same thing and it's possible Rick could have still made an ally

[00:39:22] out of Andrew but now no chance he's an enemy for sure and your wife is dead and and I think Rick ends up realizing he's someone at fault which is why he's so haunted and driven crazy by it he

[00:39:35] should have either tried to bring Andrew in or just killed him this was a half-assed solution yeah to bite him in the ass he learns his lesson no I think he afterwards is very reluctant to let

[00:39:47] people live so yeah so so back back with the others in the room axles like saying you know please you know spare my life and that he said Oscar here he's a B&E and he ain't very good at

[00:40:08] it either I think that means breaking and entering yeah and he says we ain't the violent kind they were well that makes me think they were who's they it must mean Andrew to write Tomas and so

[00:40:20] maybe Andrew was a bad guy and only he had to go yeah so yeah then then anyway they get back to their cell block and you see the dead prisoner shot in the head and I liked that I like that

[00:40:34] whole sequence cuz they're like you're gonna leave us here this is sick and they're like basically dude this is the world we live in now be tough deal with it drag the bodies out and burn him like

[00:40:43] and Darrell both seemed really sincerely trying to be kind here when he said Darrell said I'm sorry about your friends and T-dog said hey let me give you some advice drag him out and burn him they're

[00:40:54] like trying to show a little bit of like it's okay or I don't know something nice compassion they don't last in there though they only last like a couple of hours and then they back up with

[00:41:05] Rick's crew and episode 4 cuz they are around yeah yeah but they're good guys both of them yeah I am I I need to interject that I double-checked about axle in the comics it's actually

[00:41:21] Andrew in the comics is completely different character he's like a white man in his 40s who is the serial killer but axle is wrongly blamed so we just perpetrated the same offense we wrongly

[00:41:33] blamed axle but I think we all assumed axle might get some of the attributes of the other prisoners from the story so just in case any comic readers were like like that yeah idiots so yeah there we

[00:41:46] go cool okay Gemma what else you got um about Herschel getting bit and then his leg chopped off like he is such an important part of the group that I think you guys said last week he

[00:42:01] shouldn't have been out on that mission anyway because he's the only like like the vet but he's the only doctor with medical things so it's down to Laurie really and Carol to save the situation

[00:42:13] his leg has been cut off and they do say that the veins are bleeding out and I'm like well what did they do they didn't really resolve what they did stop the bleeding other than bandages and

[00:42:23] Carl brings more bandages but they didn't cauterize it as Rick does later on with himself and so they just hope for the best really and tie him up and Laurie resuscitates him which leads to this like

[00:42:39] really really tense moment if you think that he's gonna bite her and everyone's screaming I remember my heart just like oh my god so that was really tense um yeah and this is one of the

[00:42:50] first times that that Herschel is in serious danger then there's like quite a few other moments um Maggie has to process this as well in her mind like she's saying goodbye to him it's

[00:43:02] okay to go dad if you want to go whereas Beth doesn't want him to go and then you see the toughness starting to come out in Maggie like this is one of the things I know she's already

[00:43:11] lost her like mother and her brother and whatever but this threat to Herschel um is really important and it's starting to show her like strength and bravery and unfortunately for Maggie it's the

[00:43:22] first in a series of a lot of tragedy that we're still watching I think to this day um in the spin-offs dealing with her damn son now yeah yeah and Herschel's a bit of a brat isn't he so

[00:43:36] that's the impression I got anyway um yeah so and I think just the importance of Herschel being like this father figure like a patriarch that Rick looks up to and Glenn looks up to and they're all

[00:43:48] counting on this guy and and he's out of commission at the minute and it's so important for Laurie's story that um I don't want to include Carol in this point but it triggers something that she does

[00:43:59] in the episode as well um yeah and I just think oh Herschel I just I just love him you know he's such a good character and and I think maybe this prepares us for what eventually does happen to him

[00:44:11] maybe but he gets his hero episode as well before that and that is one of my favorite episodes I absolutely love that episode for Herschel he's great he's just amazing but yeah yeah I mean I'm

[00:44:23] so relieved that even in hindsight that he survived this because his best moments are yet to come and yeah it makes yeah maybe you're right it makes you feel like uh well he died a horrible

[00:44:35] death not too long after this but at least he got some more time and we got to have some of his best moments you know we got spaghetti tuesdays is it am i right yeah

[00:44:48] oh one time uh that reminds me there was this when we used to go to walker stalker con and Karen was there maybe this was the first year I don't remember she went a couple times but

[00:44:59] they always had these great costume parties and just amazing and there was this uh like fixture with a picnic table and Herschel's head on top and some spaghetti so it was pretty gruesome right

[00:45:13] she went over and kissed the head and it turns out it was a person because he like looked up at her that's amazing I love that so do we want to go on with our Herschel points or yeah okay go ahead um

[00:45:36] I'm just thinking to myself here yeah I think it's a bit suspension of disbelief that he survived the amputation um I'll tell you a moment where I was like actually quite mad at Laurie it was how

[00:45:44] mad she was at Carl because Carl had just done something pretty fucking heroic um and I can understand that she's worried about him and it comes from love but I did feel for Carl in that

[00:45:55] moment and then having his crush tell him to be nicer to his mom oh that's so humiliating um so yeah also I believe CPR doesn't actually work quite a lot of the time so I'm always a bit like

[00:46:10] really when someone resuscitates somebody like that on tv um but some of the things I liked about Herschel's um incapacitation were like there's some really nice moments between Carol and Laurie I always like their friendship on screen and when they're saying like you look

[00:46:28] disgusting and so do you there's a kind of bonded closeness there between the two of them um and I just yeah I find that nice and I thought Maggie played her grief so well and in a way I

[00:46:40] think she'd kind of accepted that he was gone I thought it was interesting that she didn't run in to try and do CPR on him or do anything she's kind of in shock and that's understandable like no

[00:46:49] judgment to her I'm not like why don't you do that Maggie you're so selfish like um I am a little bit like because she's just like you can go you can give up he's probably gonna die and I'm like

[00:47:00] maybe have a little hope like come on I think she's in the in the comics they they touch on Maggie being quite prone to depression and like not being quite all there

[00:47:11] yeah with her mental health a lot of the time and I did wonder when I watched this the first time around if this was them touching on that but in a way I just think she's bracing herself for

[00:47:21] the worst I kind of understand that I'm like yeah I understand too but it's like maybe that's sorry how she copes going forward as well it's like everything that happens you know after

[00:47:31] it's like after Glenn she just gets up I know she that's horrible but she just gets up and get in the caravan you know and then processes it later I think to me it's similar to Rick not

[00:47:42] communicating it's like okay I understand it you're really hurt yeah but it's yeah has an impact on the people around you you know I thought the moment where Herschel woke up while

[00:47:53] Laurie was giving him mouth to mouth was so stressful and I love the image of Laurie and the greens because Laurie is actually really sweet to Maggie and Beth like she takes on a

[00:48:02] kind of maternal role with the two of them yeah um and they're kind of pinned back against the wall in horror and then it pulls out and little psycho Carl standing there with his gun which

[00:48:11] is quite right it's the right thing to do but I always just laugh when it's Carl in his hat being like I'm gonna shoot someone I'm like oh um I did like later when Laurie says room for Carl

[00:48:22] to do whatever it is he does now because I was like yeah he's not having a very normal childhood is he um but yeah Herschel wakes up he turns out like a nice boy he turns out good yeah and

[00:48:34] when Herschel wakes up he shakes Rick's hand or wants to hold Rick's hand and then Rick kind of hands him back to his daughters which I thought was a really nice beat to see he didn't I don't

[00:48:44] think he had one line did he this episode must have been pretty boring for Scott Wilson well funny you should say that in the IMDB deep dive it does mention that Scott Wilson kept falling asleep

[00:48:58] the beds were surprisingly comfy I'm like oh there you go so I mean it's probably quite authentic I wonder if they had to dub out any snoring

[00:49:05] nice um what do I have to say about it I love the story because as I said at the top it's played as if it's any drama where someone's sick or hurting the characters are afraid they'll die but this

[00:49:19] almost meta walking dead thing where they're playing with us and making us think that he might turn into his head and kill one of them and and it's it really is that horror movie trope of

[00:49:29] characters being so being kind of dumb and so we'll yell at the screen and I think it's really fun especially now that we know he makes it through and watching it now and so um when they

[00:49:42] bring him through into the cell block uh you know they hurry rush him in to get him onto the bed at the beginning right after they've chopped up his leg I was watching Beth because uh she's just

[00:49:52] lost so much and had a hard time handling it she's so young and he just she just said is he gonna die and I was like oh um and then Rick tells Glenn he needs to stay by Herschel's side and says if you

[00:50:05] need if he dies you need to be here for that and I love I'm noticing more that they don't that there's subtext in what they're saying and I always think it's better writing when they do

[00:50:14] that versus saying if he comes back you're gonna have to kill him you know when he says Maggie will be there and she might be upset because she's his daughter and a woman and like

[00:50:23] she'll be upset so just like kill him okay like yeah yeah we get it we get it yeah and and I mean I don't think it has I think Maggie because that touches on another thing Glenn I was mentioning

[00:50:37] last week how that episode started to feel more like how the walking dead became different things like um Herschel being this wise old grandpa type or whatever and this episode has Glenn not being so

[00:50:52] goofy and insecure but just being more solid and here he's holding space for Maggie he's still it's transitional because I think he shouldn't have let Carol talk him into leaving his post you know

[00:51:02] but um anyway uh so I don't think to me that doesn't have anything to do with gender it's just Maggie is about to lose her father and she needs someone there for her you know what I mean

[00:51:13] um but anyway but Rick has told him as well you need to stay here and I think Glenn listens to Rick like obviously like Glenn looks up to Rick so much and respects him he doesn't want to go

[00:51:24] back on his word to Rick so you know you can even tell how much Glenn loves Rick. But then he does go back on it.

[00:51:29] Yeah well he does yeah. You should have just said no sorry Carol tell me what you want and I will do that later or whatever um so then uh let's see Beth wants a moment alone with Herschel I'm like no Beth!

[00:51:43] And it's touching but tense and then Maggie encourages him to let go and stop fighting and and she's like did she hug him or did Beth hug him? Maggie definitely did. Maggie did yeah.

[00:51:55] And I'm like that's really sweet but you're you're going to get killed right now you know and that's exactly what the writers want us to be feeling like don't get so close and then um yeah Glenn

[00:52:07] leaves because Carol says she needs him for something and I think that was so they could have that scene about her wanting to do the c-section but also so because they want to create this sense

[00:52:18] of worry like wait he's the guy that's supposed to be watching in case Herschel comes back so he can take care of it now they're taking him away something bad is about to happen you know um and

[00:52:29] then when Herschel stopped breathing and Laurie does mouth to mouth and it's it's harrowing because she you hope she succeeds but also harrowing because he may bite her lips off the stakes are high

[00:52:43] and then he pops up and his arms shoot out and I'm like that'd be so funny if everyone on tv when they're getting mouth to mouth that's how they came back you know yeah they do the old jump scare

[00:52:55] so it's so funny um but anyway points for Laurie again this episode she saved Herschel's life and um that's a big deal it really is I think Glenn I loved his moment where he was

[00:53:12] just talking it through with Carol he's like I know what you're asking is logical I know that I know this is something that we need to do I know that it's sane but it's still weird and I'm

[00:53:23] like yeah there would be more moments like that in the apocalypse of like yeah okay still weird though like yeah I love that and that seems the right balance of like earnest but not goofy

[00:53:34] with Glenn that we like and that's kind of what I have to do having a doctor for a wife if she starts telling me some of the details of what she has to do that's how I feel like oh but it has to

[00:53:47] be done though I love that I'd be like ooh tell me more well I'm gonna take this part out but not so much oh you don't want to hear about that yeah but they're so okay right never mind

[00:54:01] yep okay yeah this is yeah I think my brain's not right sometimes I'm like oh but I mean it has to be done it has to be done yeah all right Gemma uh I think my last point is Carol um okay

[00:54:17] yeah from the difference between her they start setting up I think they started setting up the last episode with um her being able to shoot and just becoming more and more useful to the group

[00:54:29] and then this episode um starts her like able to like she's able to forward think and practicality and then she's making decisions for the group she's not really running by anybody else other

[00:54:41] than Glenn because she needs his help but she is forming a plan in her mind and then this is one of Carol's skills that we will see um continuously through the season whether it's good or bad you

[00:54:52] know there's something coming up um in season it's the season four yeah that she does it's not the best decision but it's a decision that she makes for the good of the group so again this is

[00:55:02] her starting with this and I think it's a really good idea actually like she says there's cadavers like all around us though she needs Glenn to help to bring um one in to practice a c-section on

[00:55:13] because she knows that Laurie has had a c-section with Carl and it's most likely to happen um it's gonna happen again she's gonna need a c-section Hershel's out of commission she knows this

[00:55:24] so it's really showing like Carol's um yeah just like her ability to see I think outside the box as well and she does go ahead and practice this and I do think it's a really good idea

[00:55:34] I mean whether she was able to do it or not without like any textbook or instruction so and ultimately her practicing is is new anyway because it doesn't end up happening the way that you know it goes down it's Maggie that actually does the c-section um successfully

[00:55:52] I did sort of think when when Carol was doing that I was like you know they should really train more people like I just you know that way I was like oh maybe yeah I should have trained most

[00:56:01] people in the group to do this because you never know but easier said than done in hindsight I can't imagine Rick doing a c-section I think Carol has a line about her medical training in

[00:56:12] whether she got it from spending time in domestic abuse shelters or something like that I think that like stuck with me yeah like she mentions that doesn't she with the yeah yeah so whether she

[00:56:26] helped people other women in the shelters or doing her own injuries I'm not sure but um yes so she does this and then we've got um somebody somebody watching her from the bushes as well which I at

[00:56:37] the time I was like who is this who's this person yeah so yeah I was like is it Morgan like I was always thinking that Morgan was gonna come back that was a big thing wasn't it it was

[00:56:48] like oh who is it who is it yeah yeah yeah and I did not for one second at the time think that it was um Andrew yeah so yeah so well done to Carol we probably speculated but it's like no he couldn't

[00:56:59] have made it out of that no way yeah yeah I agree with you I think um that's another thing that's sort of blooming forth now you know that's going to be the status quo for the rest of the series is

[00:57:17] Carol being someone to or I don't know being a strong person that helps out and does what's necessary and she's out there learning how to give a c-section using a zombie corpse you know

[00:57:32] and I don't know how people learn that but maybe they use cadavers anyway maybe I don't know I think you tough to yeah yeah I don't know but um I thought it was it says a lot about her character

[00:57:46] and she insists on doing it herself she doesn't let Glenn do it for her yeah yeah just the killing of the zed with the rebar yeah by the way uh through the head but

[00:57:58] through the eye socket which is soft so they're not butter heads yet but yeah she's learning how to shoot better apparently although in practice not so much but she's at least trying and she's

[00:58:10] wanting to kill the zombies herself she's wanting to learn to do this c-section to help lori so she's just really out there trying to be effective and helpful and everything

[00:58:21] I will say they do seem to have I was confused when Axel was um kind of punching the zombie in the guts and it's its skin just gave away I'm like oh maybe the skin's gone kind of papery as well

[00:58:33] it was pretty gross maybe it's just a stomach area so it's filled with like gas and like fluid and that was so gross so gross I love it a little bit of department of suspension disbelief like they you know I think the idea is that

[00:58:50] carol's learning from her shell how to do medical things because she wants to help out with lori's birth but somehow that means that she knows that uh cauterizing this amputation won't help and that

[00:59:04] you need to just let it bleed and heal on its own well Jason clearly clearly you've never delivered a baby because that's exactly what happens there is fire and things yeah it's

[00:59:19] it's crazy it's really wild you should watch call the midwife um don't um I can't watch that anymore it's too it's too stressful it's too it's very sweet but it's too stressful it's too

[00:59:30] stressful and I think cauterizing yeah I've never really understood how it works but it's interesting so where are we uh I think it's I think it's me but I think I'm kind of onto notes we've had such

[00:59:47] a good discussion I've hit most of my big points yeah go for it uh Daryl as zombie coach so that's his role this episode he's explaining zombies if I was to kill you shoot an arrow in your chest

[01:00:01] you'd come back as one of these things you know he says to the prisoners because they don't know anything about it and then he growls just to show them how they growl I'm just kidding he didn't do

[01:00:09] that he he has tips you know you don't fire guns unless your back's against the wall noise attracts them and uh these things only go down with a headshot and then when big tiny they're going

[01:00:22] through the halls of the prison and he says it's too damn dark in here Daryl says you got to hold the flashlight up high in front of you you're gonna hear him you're gonna hear him before you

[01:00:28] see him he's just like coaching them through the whole thing and I thought that was kind of fun and interesting he's a nice guy Daryl you know he is and I think this is the point really he hasn't

[01:00:40] been too effective very much so far but I think this season it starts happening for him he starts losing people quite quickly yeah yeah wait what are you saying that he what yeah like he's still

[01:00:51] talkative you know and he's still helpful he has a lot of lines this season then he starts losing people and I think then by like season five and six he just barely says a word you know so yeah

[01:01:02] the effect on him and season seven and eight too like yeah yeah the seasons that have come to be known as the worst in The Walking Dead I remember before season seven came out and somebody asked

[01:01:17] Norman Reedus something about it on a panel or in an interview or something and usually Norman Reedus just hypes the hell out of things but I remember him being like I don't know he kind of sucks he has to listen to Easy Street that's why

[01:01:37] and then um I have one more point uh the prisoner actors so these guys were my entry into the whole walker stalker thing so you know I had my podcast going and I saw that a new one popped up called

[01:01:51] walker stalkers probably during this season season three and um I checked it out and they were good and I thought oh these guys have something going on it was James and Eric so I wrote to them and

[01:02:02] I'm like I like your uh podcast and then they wrote back oh we listened to you you know we should talk and they wanted to know how we got interviews and stuff so we started up a you know

[01:02:10] kind of a friendship and then James started doing um fan events and he would have uh get together at a bar and watch a show and he'd get one of the actors to come and interview them and so he wanted

[01:02:25] to do one at San Diego Comic-Con at this nearby bar and have the prisoner actors come and he asked me if I wanted to do that as a joint thing with him so we did and there was uh Big Tiny was there

[01:02:39] and Tomas and a couple other guys that are coming up uh Tyler Chase who plays Ben Daniel Thomas May who plays Alan and Travis Love who played Shumpert one of um the governor's guys and uh Nick Gomez

[01:02:56] who plays Tomas he was I especially liked him they were all cool but he was like really cool personable guy you know we all drank beer together and it was really fun and that's um episode 109

[01:03:07] in the feed if you want to go back and listen fan meet up with the prisoners from the walking dead that event ended up costing me 200 because the alcohol budget went over ticket sales and I think

[01:03:17] Big Tiny had a lot to do with that but he was a great guy fun to party with the oh big tiny and then um episode 99 of our podcast Nick Gomez is on there uh there's an interview and I think it

[01:03:33] was a pretty good one I remember talking about him taking the axe to the head and everything um and so yeah good guys and they would come to walker stalkers for a few years after they all

[01:03:44] left the show and we would do panels called dead men of the walking dead and have them up there and uh and the one thing other thing I that really stands out I've probably talked about this a few

[01:03:54] times on the podcast but when that episode the grove came out where it was look at the flowers and carol shot lizzie and afterwards we had a podcast a live podcast because that was a walker

[01:04:05] stalker weekend which those two young actresses had been at that played lizzie and mika and they had to keep it quiet the whole time um anyway at the live podcast we were talking about whether

[01:04:15] carol did the right thing and most people said yeah it was tough but she probably did and I remember lou temple came and took the mic and he was so anti what she did he was just really

[01:04:24] really passionate about it and we were all sort of like oh okay maybe we're bad people I don't know wow well I mean what would he have done with it that's the thing

[01:04:36] what are you gonna do with the kids point was some people are some kids are trouble and you need to take care of them but man you don't have resources you know I don't know yeah we'll talk

[01:04:44] about that when the time comes so I just wanted to sort of give some of my experiences with some of these actors I love that and that's my last point and let's get into notes Gemma um oh yeah

[01:04:58] um other can be rich was talking about the um when he's talking about the world is gone he's talking about there's no phones no computers nothing and then the sadness on like oscar's

[01:05:10] face on my wife my kids and like there's no cell phone can we have a cell phone that we can call home um things like that sad and it was 2010 but they still still have all these computers and

[01:05:22] cell phones and stuff and it must have been hard for them in there like 10 months and not knowing what happened to their families and stuff so yeah and great way to humanize them

[01:05:31] really quickly yeah yeah yeah I think yeah and when I heard that line maybe you two won't know what I'm about to say because you're not um American but when he said no phones I was like

[01:05:43] no phones no lights no motor cars primitive as can be do you know what that means is that a commercial is there people listening though it's Gilligan's Island I'm like anything else Gemma uh no I think that's it

[01:06:03] Lucy all right what have I got I think I covered it I think we're done I've got my imdb dive on my timeline check-in but they're both short this week um imdb dives in real life Theodos Crane

[01:06:15] Big Tiny Jason's drinking buddy is a professional mixed martial arts fighter and boxer and Theodos Crane loved the big tiny corpse model so much he wanted to take the head and keep it up in his

[01:06:26] house but I don't think he was allowed um and as for the timeline we are on day 296 approximately still so as we were last week we're about 10 months since the outbreak and about nine months

[01:06:41] since Rick woke up nice and you said the saviors have just started up didn't you last year yeah yeah in April or May yeah yeah alongside this that's happening which is kind of cool to think

[01:06:54] about yeah yeah imagine if Negan had ran across the prison instead of the savior I wonder what would have happened yeah no like would he have gone toe-to-toe with

[01:07:07] Rick or just fallen in line I don't know right I think well so hard to know so he was a savior do I forget how he became the leader but he wasn't the leader at first no he was part of the

[01:07:24] yeah so I feel like he's the type of guy that's either going to make his way to the top or be expelled or leave not just sit there and be subservient you know who knows all right it's

[01:07:36] time for only on the walking dead you got one Gemma um only on the walking dead that marriage literally means death until do us part there's no way out of the marriage for Rick and Laurie well until father Gabriel comes along maybe he could I don't know

[01:07:57] I don't know uh only on the walking dead would you see someone comfort their dying father and think no uh only on the walking dead would you be fighting this hard to stay in prison

[01:08:26] tiny ship the mate was a mighty sailor man skipper brave and sure high passenger said sail that day for a three hour tour a three hour tour obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens

[01:08:43] the people it kills get up and tell are they slow moving chief yeah they're dead they're all messed this is a walking dead cast news update only one thing and it's that during that recent

[01:08:58] interview with radio times when Norman Reedus was hyping up Daryl Dixon's mind-blowing season two and he mentioned that they were starting season three we're starting season three right now which I looked at it again and what he actually said was quote we're about to start season three and

[01:09:15] possibly four in Spain I think I'm allowed to say that I don't know I just said it but I think we're going to Spain to Madrid for that holy shit so Norman Reedus is this guess what happens so and so guys and

[01:09:31] and we go to Madrid because I just fancy being in Spain for a bit which is nice yeah I think why not sure that's why the show's being made is because Norman Reedus said I will

[01:09:42] do it if we can tour Europe yeah I want him to come home like he needs to come home now because Rick's going to be waiting for him and what if he stopped in England first

[01:09:55] yeah that'd be good I really think London Walking Dead would be really interesting I don't know why they haven't done it so more interesting have you have you gone no it's just say Jason have you got news about Andrew Lincoln's new role oh yeah in a podcast right

[01:10:15] no he's uh Andrew Lincoln's got a new role in an ITV drama yeah it looks like it might be quite good I only saw it today hang on I'll pass it on so we can

[01:10:25] do it all proper but it did make me think oh maybe he's not gonna turn up in uh in Darryl he's done maybe he's done with the walking yeah so he's going to executive produce and star in a new six-part ITV thriller called cold water

[01:10:41] nice so over in the UK Andrew Lincoln has announced he will return to British screens for the first time in 14 years this is from the independent.co.uk the walking dead protagonist 50 will executive produce and star in a new six-part ITV thriller titled cold water

[01:10:58] penned by cypress avenue playwright David Ireland the forthcoming series sees Lincoln play a middle-aged man called John who secretly hates his life as a stay-at-home dad also set to star are Ewan Bremner train spotting Indira Varma who played um oh fuck what was her name in game

[01:11:16] of thrones uh Oberyn Martell's wife oh she was in game of thrones yeah and Eve Miles who was in Torchwood after a violent altercation in a playground in London John moves his family from the city to a rural Scottish village upon arrival he quickly befriends his next-door

[01:11:33] neighbor and husband to the local vicar Tommy played by Bremner John however soon suspects Tommy is harboring horrifying secrets when a series of unsettling incidents begin to unfold so that seems like it might be quite fun a release date for cold water is yet to be announced with

[01:11:50] filming due to begin later this year nice i'm glad he's getting stuff and you just reminded me that he's also in this new sci-fi drama podcast called a better paradise which is out now there's like

[01:12:03] four episodes it says set in the near future a better paradise tells the story of the ill-fated development of an ambitious but addictive digital game world project led by the inventor and psychologist dr mark tyburn who's andrew lincoln and i just listened to a little bit and there's

[01:12:20] another character who does most of the talking in the first episode and i god i hope nobody's listening but i didn't enjoy him very much uh and which is unfortunate but when andrew lincoln came in he was a totally different like a scientist who with a i can't

[01:12:36] do it but an english accent and he spoke like this and it was very like whoa what's going on here very intense you know and uh so i gotta listen to more of that but i'm excited that he's doing so

[01:12:48] and it's written by the guy who made the um grand theft auto games dan hauser so i don't know if it's any good but i'm curious well i think i know what peter and i are listening to on the drive up

[01:12:59] to scotland you may be able to at least check it out yeah all right let's move on to listener moans groans and grunts kristin scott says machete to the face amazing maria lawson says catching up on the podcast for the end of season two and had never

[01:13:23] noticed randall was the same actor as mr mazel yep pretty different role randy stevenson says for some reason jason's interview with nick gomez tomas has always stuck with me gomez said his

[01:13:35] mother or grandmother asked when he was going to play a good boy on tv i hope they've gotten to see him in one of those roles especially after he gets a hatchet to the head

[01:13:47] uh teague mattel says i won't watch the episode in time but i'm almost caught up to you but i did love the way they appeared at the very end of 301 if i remember correctly it was lifted directly

[01:13:59] from a panel of the comics and i always loved when that happened the poor leader is going to get a split in headache love it love that um brad holt brad holt says i'm having so much fun with this

[01:14:15] rewatch it's been a long time since i watched season three and these first two episodes have been a blast it's still so frustrating that no one in this amazing ensemble cast ever won an

[01:14:23] emmy for their performance no one and i mean no one ever just phoned it in everyone was 100 committed to their characters this episode had so many great and memorable moments the tense rick

[01:14:34] tomas stare downs the hilarious first attempt by the convicts to take out the walkers and of course the moment rick takes tomas out can't wait till the next episode yeah what happens i probably

[01:14:48] andrew lets all the walkers in and chaos ensues but isn't that he drags a deer or hot yeah something like dan leaves it and opens the gates yeah all right nathan eshelman says within the past couple weeks i finally took time to finish the game walking dead destinies

[01:15:09] that's that game where you play through the walking dead storylines but you can make different decisions and it sounds like a really good idea but the game apparently wasn't executed well but i'm glad that nathan decided to play it anyway because i think this is really interesting

[01:15:24] he says i went down the path of saving shane instead of rick in season two so i could see the ripple effects of shane leading the group hershel losing his leg is given as an example

[01:15:33] of how shane's leadership would be different if shane makes it to the prison he takes no chances and decides to kill hershel with that knowledge in mind putting up with rick's stuff and thangs

[01:15:42] doesn't seem so bad oh wow maria lawson says okay i'm finally back on track and caught up to the rewatch after a small bridgerton watching break yeah maria i love you i forgot how chaotic this episode was and just how scary those dark prison corridors were

[01:16:05] there was a tiny bit of foreshadowing of her show's imminent limb loss and i caught that this time around shortly before he is bit is that it he is bit but the camera

[01:16:16] lingers on extra few seconds on a dead body on the floor yes yeah missing both his legs below the knee oh okay how wild it would have been to be one of those prisoners and see the

[01:16:29] group come bustling in immediately chopping off someone's leg i like the prison season mostly so i'm looking forward to watching again i remember loving the first half and then the second half i feel like there were some problems with it but i don't really remember what they were

[01:16:45] so we'll see andrea sorry um chandra right says this time around i noticed what a natural teacher daryl is he was pretty chatty with the prisoner group taking the lead explaining how people become

[01:16:57] walkers how to take them down and even expressing a little sympathy once they moved into their new cell block with their dead friends i'm also noticing how often rick seeks counsel and support

[01:17:07] even now in the thick of the dictatorship it is meaningful to him that laurie recognized his actions are born out of necessity not malice he still would have needed to kill tomas i mean my

[01:17:16] god the way he hacked up her tiny but her words bolstered his confidence to get it done it's a great episode that really shows how far they have come and how united they are interesting i thought about it that way alma contraris says i'd forgotten how bloody this

[01:17:32] episode was and how cool and brave has carl gotten i know he gets on people's nerves but he's the only kid on the show and he has to be a little badass to keep up with the rest of the

[01:17:41] crew he just snuck right in and out of the medic ward with supplies little badass lol yeah totally season three is i mean i don't blame laurie for being upset at that but maybe

[01:17:54] don't dress him down right there in front of everybody and just have a talk with him later or something i did have one little note from last week's podcast y'all were saying that rick

[01:18:04] was not right when dealing with laurie and i agree to a degree first off he's still probably having issues about shane it's been seven months though okay and yes i do believe he loves laurie

[01:18:15] but is perhaps a bit disillusioned by the fact that she stands before him fully pregnant with shane's baby of course we all know he makes peace with it but damn it has to sting and that's

[01:18:24] probably why he keeps her at arm's length and just doesn't want to talk about anything with her anyway that's just my two cents about rick kissy face oh we love rick um billy thompson i recently listened to the podcast of the meetup you did with the prison

[01:18:44] actor prisoner actors i found it really funny that all these actors when they found out they were going to die spoke to the producers and almost begged them to stay on the show

[01:18:54] even coming up with wacky ideas on how they could avoid the on-screen deaths oh it's a great list and everyone you should go back and check it out and i think it's episode 109 um i love

[01:19:06] how in this episode beth is on the positive one and maggie isn't maybe andrea was right and the situation at the farm with beth really did help her but i still think she made her realize um in

[01:19:18] the wrong way either way such a great performance from lauren cohen in this episode i'm glad rick can throw out the defense laurie on saying she will stand by whatever decision rick makes

[01:19:28] with the prisoners and also how she acknowledges she didn't do this before wishing uh seems like a step in the right direction for their relationship but i think rick is really

[01:19:38] conflicted one part of him just wants to be normal like normal with laurie again but the other part probably knows that the relationship is done although it's a new season it's the same old

[01:19:49] carl mooching around on his own which in turn saving he hasn't really got anyone to watch him um which in turn saves her shows life initials life but unfortunately i think rick and laurie

[01:20:01] have given up on trying to keep an eye on him when in the end scene she says whatever he does these days let's hope he doesn't mooch off on his own in the future and get bit oh no oh that's dark dark foreshadowing thanks guys bye oh billy

[01:20:22] rachel teal edwards says this week i'm inspired to write a defense of the dictatorship hear me out one there is no space for anything but a firm and confident leader in the apocalypse especially in this prison scenario imagine the naive indecisive people pleasing rick in the same

[01:20:37] situation it would have been a disaster instead rick emphatically tells tomas no this place is ours i also like just adding this in that he says we spill blood which i thought was very cool very

[01:20:48] baller uh rachel goes on he decisively tells the prisoners what is going to happen he reads the situation and stands his ground in a necessarily harsh way that actually makes tomas back down

[01:20:59] two until he tries to kill him until he tries to kill him two a good strong leader inspires confidence trust and loyalty in his people so let's look at the group darrell takes charge

[01:21:09] with one of my favorite lines just for his delivery of it today's your lucky day fellas you've been pardoned by the state of georgia your state of georgia you're free to go then t-dog comes in

[01:21:17] super confident armed and ready to fight too carl amazingly goes off and finds the infirmary on his own i want those deleted scenes carol and laurie save her soul's life the list goes on rick has learned people's strengths and encourages them hence confidence cohesion trust it's beautiful

[01:21:35] number three rick discusses the situation with ms whatever you think is best who tells him to do whatever he's got to do to keep the group safe then rick makes a swift decision in the moment

[01:21:44] to neutralize the threat that scene is so satisfying there were multiple moments prior when rick could have justifiably killed tomas but he chose his moment well and shows no more self-doubt okay i rest my case for now the ricktatorship was necessary and has proven to be effective

[01:22:00] other notes it brings me joy to see beth becoming the character i love at the beginning of season four episode 10 inmates we hear a passage from the journal she was writing during this time

[01:22:10] she talks about making the prison a home laurie's baby being due soon and waking up in her own bed in her own room she quotes her shell is saying if you don't have hope what's the point of living

[01:22:20] and she wishes to live in the prison for the rest of their lives in this moment after her shell is bitten she chooses hope and chooses to believe that her shell will survive it's not naivety

[01:22:30] it's choice she's resolute and i can feel her stubborn optimism and her determination oh and last week i did enjoy the singing scene it just felt weird to be able to relax and enjoy a

[01:22:40] safe peaceful moment but i think noticing the holy shit we can take a breath feeling is the point of the scene the dialogue in this episode is so good yes there are very serious moments

[01:22:49] but i notice and love the humor and heart it made me realize this group is truly bonded now yes they can work together effectively but they also genuinely know each other and love each other

[01:22:59] thanks for the kind words last week guys i'm getting so much enjoyment out of being a part of the rewatch with you oh thanks rachel yeah i'm glad you're back because rachel's been a

[01:23:09] listener for a really long time and it's really cool that you're writing in with such great messages and the thing about the what you said about rick brings up to me is on one hand by

[01:23:20] saying it's not a democracy anymore he's saying if you want to stay with me that's the way it's going to be but you're free to go and i can respect that but it also makes me think of my favorite

[01:23:33] band weezer and the lead singer of weezer is rivers cuomo and just if you read the gossip and stuff about them he said at one point i want to do this my way if you want to come along

[01:23:47] great you have to do what i say and they've been really successful but i also there's a part of me that feels like god how would i like to be in that situation where i'm like well i gotta stay

[01:23:58] with weezer because they're they're so successful but i sure wish that i had more of a say in this you know i don't know it doesn't feel great to me but i do think you have some good points in there

[01:24:08] though so final message and then we have a couple calls final message from dina who says this is a fabulously suspenseful as well as a solid character development episode our little band and cell block c are inching forward in confidence beth's choice to be optimistic carol's burgeoning capability

[01:24:28] carl doing what's needed the mouthy little brat glenn's struggle and ultimate acceptance that mean he may have to put herschel down and wow laurie's sheer bravery and trying to resuscitate a dead man even maggie wallowing in fear and grief gains the courage to give herschel permission

[01:24:46] to leave his suffering behind while she desperately wants him to stay it's becoming more difficult to contribute to the conversation here i've seen every episode so many times that nothing is new although my hatred for thomas still see this see this seethes i haven't stopped

[01:25:02] laughing at the expressions on t-dog rick and daryl's faces when the prisoners attack the walkers and when big tiny is bit i'm freshly sad so it was a surprise to be caught off guard with a novel

[01:25:17] observation for me anyway my friend once worked at a medium security prison as an educator she has so many stories that leave me with conflict conflicted thoughts about the american prison system none of them resolved i guess i brought some of those stories with me to this

[01:25:32] episode rewatch because even though we know that rick spares axel and oscar we didn't the first time this episode aired i remember that i didn't want them to be killed even if axel did seem a

[01:25:44] little sketchy yeah that's another thing that rick did that shane probably wouldn't have done was spare those two guys uh repeatedly in this series we hear quote people are a resource you can't do

[01:25:54] anything without people now all lives are precious every life is worth something these sentences are uttered by the same people that have also shown ruthlessness so many times and sometimes they show

[01:26:05] mercy only to pay for it in the short term by thinking of daryl and dwight nevertheless although they often falter they strive to reach carl's wish for everyone to get a chance to have a life

[01:26:16] sometimes after criminals have served their sentences and are allowed to join society again unless someone gives them a chance they might just end up back in prison did tomas deserve to die

[01:26:27] was his life precious i don't think so but who am i to judge in his case rick acted in self-defense so that ends any debate that for me that's what it's all about someone's trying to kill you then

[01:26:41] that's it uh but i like what you're saying if rick had killed axel and oscar we would have forgotten them quick enough but we wouldn't have seen them become productive members of society

[01:26:51] we wouldn't have seen that oscar was a dignified honorable man and then axel was a kind person their time on the show was short but not insignificant because rick gave them a chance i'm making no political statement here and hesitated to even ascend this letter my extended

[01:27:04] family is large enough that it contains criminals and victims i'm just pondering criminals and victims i'm just pondering that's what's so great about this show it can be pure entertainment it can be comfort after a rough day or it can get the brain thinking about deeper

[01:27:17] societal issues that may never be resolved but at least we won't be numb to them all of us already know that i guess that i was surprised after being certain that i'd mind every possible aspect of the

[01:27:28] show that there's still more to find i think i even saw a new muscle twitching in daryl's arm no that was comfort after a rough day much love dina oh that's nice this reminds me uh that we

[01:27:43] just did a patreon episode about our favorite directors and most of those directors are also the authors of the movies the writers and for me a lot of my favorites are things that challenging

[01:27:55] me challenge me i think we've there's a lot of comfort food out there that i love all the marvel movies and stuff but the ones i really admire are the ones that make me think and make me feel

[01:28:04] uncomfortable and um so yeah the walking dead could be either one of those but when we podcast about it we kind of make it the challenging thing because we're sitting here analyzing the crap out

[01:28:13] of it if it was the comfort food podcast then we were just like wasn't it so cool and so and so did what and that would be the end of the podcast i prefer to like really dig in and you know analyze

[01:28:24] it so what were you gonna say jemma sorry oh sorry she just did said that rick given um axel and oscar chance so rick gives megan the same chance to live as well and then that results in him

[01:28:40] saving judith so yeah there are consequences too and also i know i know the whispers trying to kill it if if those whispers had killed judith man he would be like why did i do that you're right he totally saved her in that one snowy episode in season 10

[01:29:12] all right let's move on to a couple calls here's renee hi you guys this is renee calling in about the walking dead and i just want to say to you um

[01:29:22] lucy and jason i'm thankful so much for what you guys do and i feel because you guys take the time out of your day and your busy schedule that i need to do the same thing you guys are so loyal

[01:29:34] to us i need to be loyal to you guys too so that's why i'm trying to make sure i get this voicemail in every week and i i really am enjoying doing a rewatch with you guys but um let me start out by

[01:29:47] saying man i cannot imagine being locked up for 10 months and then coming out and people are telling me that everyone that i know is dead dead everyone's dead like no hospitals no police no nothing

[01:30:02] that is insane and then um when rick took him outside to see what was going on and there and the one guy was like um rick was like we're all infected and the guy was like um like with aids

[01:30:16] it's like sir are you kidding me everyone does not have aids that is what are you are you slow or something i mean come on now but that made me think about you know all the blood you know

[01:30:26] i would have been looking for gloves like i'm not dealing with all this blood not just because of age just because i don't want to touch the blood my ocd would have man i don't know there's no way

[01:30:37] i can survive a zombie apocalypse i probably wouldn't have hung myself or did something because ma'am i'm telling you ocd not being able to bathe not oh man brush my teeth oh lord jesus i

[01:30:46] can not imagine but this episode is when we get the famous head tilt yes rick grimes do not play rick grimes stand on business because when that guy pushed him and tried to kill him i'm like

[01:30:59] rick is about to whoop your ass and i was like yes kill that trick kill him kill him he needs to go because he was not going to be a team player obviously there's no way he was going to be a

[01:31:11] team player and when the prisoner was like uh i'll be glad when i have a pot to piss in that made me think about my grandmother who's deceased my grandmother used to always say uh you don't

[01:31:21] have a they don't have a pot to piss in a window to throw it out of or a back alley to catch it so that was like a nostalgic moment for me because of my grandmother and rick and darrell calling um

[01:31:32] t-dog t is like when you start giving out nicknames your family we're a family oh yeah it's a done deal it's a wrap and again the bromance with darrell and rick is awesome because he was calling

[01:31:43] darrell name again and when the guy tried to kill him and darrell picked him up i mean just i love them i'm loving darrell i'm just loving everything and then they were saying a b and e is like what

[01:31:54] the hell is a b and e when the guy was sitting there begging for his life but this is when rick grimes like i said stood on business don't f with him it's a wrap he's not gonna play anymore

[01:32:07] don't f with rick grimes and laurie you guys said that um when someone does something nice at least get them um you know get him some praise for that so laurie did serve save hersha's life so

[01:32:21] i you know laurie you did good but rick come on girl it is over it's a wrap rick said we are awful grateful for what you did put his hand on his shoulder and say we're awful grateful and then

[01:32:34] that's it girl it's over it's it's a wrap and i'm assuming that was michonne peeking behind the bushes i definitely knows it now it's always cutting to michonne because that man cannot get over and

[01:32:50] will never get over the fact that she slept with his best friend and she's having a baby by his best friend and she acted a fool when she felt when she found out that he killed the best friend

[01:33:02] so that man got too many too that that's too many issues that he has to overcome and as far as rick not knowing how to communicate i definitely didn't see that with michonne which lets you know that

[01:33:14] michonne is definitely his piece and laurie definitely was not all righty i'll talk to you guys later peace and love bye oh that's funny i mean i love all of that once again at the end i

[01:33:27] was like you had me until the part about saying rick communicated well with michonne and there's some things in that we see in the ones who live that might contradict that i don't want to go too

[01:33:37] into it because there's spoilers but if you haven't seen the ones who live uh it's out in the uk now i don't know if it's in all of europe but it's on sky tv right jemma yeah yeah it is yeah so i could

[01:33:48] watch it if you haven't seen it yeah i think we're gonna now that it's available maybe we'll start being okay with spoilers on this podcast about that so let me know if you guys have any

[01:33:58] opinions on that but anyway thank you renee i would really like someone bat signal for randy to photoshop uh or video edit michelle and staring through into the fence that would really make my

[01:34:10] if anyone can do that thank you trouble in paradise that's so funny she's like i put a spell on you have you seen like all the times that he checks her out in season three as well like yes

[01:34:27] in clear like she bends over or something you see rick going like he's like she's like yeah she's hot it was always there it was always there yeah that's cool i didn't know that so it'll be fun

[01:34:44] to watch yeah there's quite a few moments i mean you would yeah i would here's our final call from colin oh colin i don't know if y'all were bullshitting me or not but uh if you like me singing what i'm

[01:35:04] gonna do instead of commentary for the next two episodes is uh singing a song that reminds me of the episode here we go everything we've become no matter what comes next we've won sometimes there's things a man cannot know gears won't turn and the leaves won't grow

[01:35:37] you failed as a leader there's no place to run and no gasoline you fail as a father engine won't turn and the train won't leave i will stay with you tonight hold you close till the morning light everyone's waiting this morning watch a new day rise very serious

[01:36:11] we'll do whatever just to stay alive we'll do whatever just to stay alive cuts off there that was delightful colin that's like such a very meaningful song to me good choice i'm very emotional

[01:36:34] so i don't know if that was for the right episode did i play it for the wrong one because those quotes sounded like they were from something else but either way uh yeah that was awesome colin loved

[01:36:45] it oh colin wonderful i'm gonna go and listen to some jose gonzalez now so good all right that is our show episode 587 thank you guys for listening everybody we love you guys thank you jemma for

[01:37:04] yeah this is fun oh thank you for having me you know i love coming on i always like it when our guests come on and give jason a bit of shit with me you can come back anytime did i did i give you

[01:37:15] shit jason and i realized that i did no you just said you just you just agreed with me a couple times which just makes me feel like we're giving jason shit it's great i didn't even mention megan

[01:37:27] also i know yeah do you want to talk about vegan a little bit you can come back come back on when uh when there's a new episode in fact just cover all of cc7 no no seriously that'd be great

[01:37:48] who do you like better negan or rick right oh my god good answer yeah good answer i know it's close though it's always gonna be right but in the absence of rick for i don't know it's two or three seasons then it's megan yeah yeah he's second best

[01:38:08] i like darrell but he's he's a bit dry isn't he darrell sometimes you know so i've come to like darrell a lot a lot more i do like him yeah couple years than i did at first

[01:38:21] um but let's uh i want to let people know if you're in europe if you're in scotland i put up a facebook event for our glasgow meetup which is coming up on wednesday july 17th i'll put a link

[01:38:34] in the show notes about that we have i think about 10 people so far derek is a possibility oh i'm gonna text him immediately and be like get your arse over to glasgow right now

[01:38:46] he's looking into it good so that'll be a lot of fun so please if you're in the area we'd love to meet you next episode walking dead season three episode three walk with me that one always makes

[01:38:58] me think of twin peaks fire with me um if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcast go.com and while you're there check out

[01:39:08] our bear podcast yeah we have a podcast about bears no the bear season three is out all of it unfortunately i know all at once but lucy and peter are covering it week to week on their

[01:39:22] podcast let it rip and they put out a preview episode where they have cooking and it's just delightful i really loved it i'm very cool yeah i can't wait to hear more and um so you should

[01:39:35] definitely go check out that episode and when are you guys going to have your episode out about season three episode one hopefully sunday hopefully sunday um we so might be out as you're doing this

[01:39:45] yeah we cooked yesterday and we haven't been able to peter was working away today so we haven't been able to watch the episode yet i'm raging i might actually come off this call and watch it so

[01:39:54] yeah so hopefully sunday and we have a chat about that if you want to come in we're thinking we'll probably just not do spoilers in there except for people who want to watch week to week we'll

[01:40:05] only have spoilers week to week anyway this episode is also made possible by patreon supporters like sarah and duhar who pledge their support at patreon.com slash jason cabassi so thank you

[01:40:16] to sarah uh where the three of us are going to be recording a tangent time right after this and the topic's going to be would you want to be able to read minds why or why not so that'll be on

[01:40:27] patreon and uh also if you just want to give a one-time donation to help support the podcast there's a link in the show notes for that and i appreciate it oh nice all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit mark williams