594: "Made to Suffer" (TWD S3E8 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm?

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Ah!

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh...

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_07]: 🎵 Podcastico! 🎵

[00:00:16] No!

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't hurt her.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's me you want, huh?

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_07]: There's no need for her to suffer.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't have needs.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't hurt my little girl.

[00:00:51] 🎵

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Cast of Us.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_08]: A podcast dedicated to the shuttle ship.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, Zed Heads.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm Jason.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Lucy.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm Kristen.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Kristen!

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Kristen!

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_08]: What?

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_08]: What am I doing here?

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_08]: What are you doing on here?

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know you were going to be here.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_08]: This is the Cast of Us, Episode 594.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, Season 3, Episode 8, Made to Suffer.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Mmm.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome, Kristen.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_04]: We're so glad you're here.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if people don't know Kristen, I don't know what to say.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_08]: But she covered a lot of Game of Thrones, the first season of Dragon Cast.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And she does the Revisited podcast with Ben where they cover each and every single episode

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_08]: of Lost.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_08]: And they're just about to have covered every episode of Ted Lasso.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_08]: You got one or two more left, right?

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_06]: One.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_08]: One more.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And then you're moving on to The Good Place, which is super cool.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But you're not literally moving to The Good Place.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll still be with us.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, don't worry.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, it sounds kind of nice.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_06]: No, just once a week.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Just once a week when we travel.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Once a week, that's right.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_06]: That's cool.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I need to get my fix.

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_08]: And Kristen, actually, I was delighted you texted me and were like, hey, I started listening

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_08]: to the rewatch.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds like fun.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Can I come on?

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And I was like, hell yeah.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_08]: And you requested this episode.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we're going to talk about it, so I'm sure we'll figure it out.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_08]: But just kind of briefly, why was this the one you wanted to do?

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I think that gosh, I love this episode so much.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I love the beginning of Michonne.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I love the beginning of Michonne and, you know, knowing what we know now about Rick

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_06]: and Michonne and seeing them just completely distrusting of each other in this episode

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_06]: is really fun.

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_06]: It's Tyrese's first episode.

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a good Glenn and Maggie episode.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I, you know, I really wanted I told you that I really wanted a season four episode.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And then I was like, but I would really like to come for season three because I love season

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_06]: three.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I just don't want to be there when Laurie dies.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_06]: But I love this.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I really do love this episode.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that we see the beginning of the unraveling of the governor in this episode, which I think

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_06]: is fun.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Absolutely.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I think I see I keep seeing and maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_08]: But because you mentioned how now that we know Rick and Michonne get together and seeing

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_08]: them distrusting each other here, I think they don't trust each other.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_08]: But I do think that there's still some they're looking at each other a lot and there's this

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_08]: heat between them or something.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I was telling Lucy last time.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_08]: It's kind of like when you meet someone and you don't know yet whether you're going to

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_08]: love them or hate them, you just can't quite define it.

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But there's something there.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_08]: It feels like that, you know, they're facing off against each other a lot because they're

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_08]: two alphas really.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe that's what it is.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they're two alphas and they're two people that they both do their own thing.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_06]: They're both rogues.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, Rick goes off on his own all the time without telling anybody.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_06]: And then when he gets a taste of his own medicine in this episode, he's super pissed off.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_08]: But I mean, they both just have such, in my opinion, powerful, good souls.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, they both make mistakes.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Rick probably makes more mistakes than Shona, but Shona makes mistakes too.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_08]: But if you could see someone's aura, they kind of have the same aura.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And so...

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_06]: They're both lawful chaotic.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think they both probably there's at least a part of them that senses that in each

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_08]: other, you know, whether they want to fully trust it or not yet.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_08]: They're like, you know, I kind of know you.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't know if I like what I know.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm not sure if I would want to meet myself.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_08]: All right.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, let me read the plot summary and then we'll get into the episode.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_08]: It's Walking Dead season three, episode eight, Made to Suffer.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_08]: This is right off Wikipedia this time.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And it says, Tyrese, a burly survivor leads his group into the backside of the prison

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_08]: and is rescued by Carl.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne guides Rick's party into Woodbury, where they trigger a shootout to rescue Glenn

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_08]: and Maggie.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Unbeknownst to both sides, the conflict pits Merle and Andrea against Rick, Daryl, and

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Oscar is killed and Daryl is captured.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne ditches Rick and confronts the governor in a violent brawl.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_08]: She wounds his eye, kills Penny, and exposes his psychopathy to Andrea.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_08]: As revenge for sparing Michonne, the governor pits Merle against Daryl in a cage fight.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So we already kind of heard-

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_08]: It's a wild episode.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it was action packed.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Thrilling, crazy.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_08]: It was like a war, war zone.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_08]: So what about you, Lucy?

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_08]: What did you think of it watching this one again?

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I loved coming back to this.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I totally forgot that Tyrese turns up in the first like five minutes of this episode.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: This was like, am I good to go into my first point?

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Because my first point is Tyrese.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, let's, let me just say a couple more things before we get into our points, which

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_08]: is that I thought it was thrilling, iconic, kind of tragic in my opinion, which I will

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_08]: get into a little bit.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_08]: But we're doing that thing where one of us is more prepped, me and Lucy, and the other

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_08]: just does color commentary.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_08]: My turn for color commentary this week.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_08]: So I have a couple points, but I did a lot less than normal.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, Lucy, go ahead.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Tyrese is here.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this for me is like the appearance of Tyrese was so iconic because he's in the

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: comics.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to talk a lot about the comics in this point.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: The image of Tyrese and his hammer was one of the kind of visual iconography elements

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: of the whole Walking Dead.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And what baffled me the first time I watched this, and I'm really excited to look at in

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: a rewatch, is how different Tyrese is on screen from how he is on the page.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So on the page, I had a quick dip into the Walking Dead wiki because I was like, I had

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: to remind myself of a lot of the stuff that happens.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But my key memory of Tyrese in the comics is that he's a very powerful, very kind of

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_03]: proactive person.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: There are violent moments with him.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: He's not a bad person by any point, by any measure.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: But he, in the words of the wiki, he fulfills the role of Rick's right hand man, ally and

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: a good friend.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a member of the prison committee.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: He is sexually involved with, I think both Carol and Michonne.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I might be wrong about that.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely Michonne, possibly Carol.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that's right.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: He has a daughter in the comics.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So Sasha doesn't exist.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Alan and Donna do, but Sasha doesn't.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_03]: So his daughter and her boyfriend enter into a suicide pact together and Tyrese ends up

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: killing his daughter's boyfriend, which Rick covers for him for.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's a lot with Tyrese that's very kind of, I wouldn't say hotheaded because I think

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in the context it makes sense what he does, but he's very, like I say, very proactive,

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: very powerful.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And now I think this is not to say that.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, aggressive.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good word for it.

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: He also in the comics gets the death that is given to Herschel in the show.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So he and Michonne are a couple.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: He is killed by the governor.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He's decapitated in front of the group.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So Tyrese had a lot of kind of baggage when he appeared on the screen.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought it was really interesting because to me, this was the first part where things

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't quite map from the comic to the screen because of other things that were in play.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So like Darryl is kind of Rick's right hand man.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Michonne has been introduced in a slightly different way and is also a slightly different

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: character.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So Tyrese comes on screen and he visually looks very like his character in the comic.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Chad El Coleman, I think is amazing.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But the Tyrese we see on the screen, I always think of as like a big warm cat.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's very like I would want to hang out with Tyrese.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_03]: He's a gentle giant.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he doesn't love the violence.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_08]: He does get the hammer scene and there's the scene that is one of these many scenes immortalized

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_08]: in Bad Lip Reading where he's fighting with Rick but it's like, what are you talking about?

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Dolphins or something?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_08]: But that was pretty intense.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: We need to do a Bad Lip Reading rewatch because I feel like it's really colored or re-approached

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: to this.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_03]: But generally speaking, he takes a really different role in the group and like you see

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that even in this episode, he gently puts Donna down.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Her face gets covered with a handkerchief.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: He's quite soft about that.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_03]: He does what needs to be done.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03]: He's firm but he's not overbearing.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_03]: He's much more gentle with Carl than Sasha is.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Sasha's really angry that they're getting locked in and to be honest, I would be like

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Sasha in that situation.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But Tyrese reads the situation properly and not properly but more accurately and sort of

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: recognizes that Carl has this kind of authority and he says, let the man go, which is just

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: such a like, it's just baller.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just really like you can tell Carl's a bit like, yeah, I'm a man.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just thought it was really great to see him on screen again.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And like I say, one of the things I'm most excited for for this rewatch is sort of looking

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_03]: at Tyrese because I remember the first time around I was quite frustrated with him.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I felt he was a bit of a wet blanket.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I sort of felt like he should be more pushy, be more aggressive, be more present.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: But I actually am looking forward to seeing a different side and looking at it with the

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_03]: context of his whole story for that.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_08]: That's cool.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what that brings up for me is how Daryl really affected how certain characters

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_08]: from the comic were portrayed on screen.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Tyrese and Jesus are the two that really come to mind for me because they both kind of served

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_08]: as Rick's right hand man and they got a lot of great story and especially Jesus got a

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_08]: lot of that taken away, I think because of Daryl's presence.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_08]: But Tyrese too.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_08]: I was waiting for Tyrese, but it's like, ah, there's too many people in there.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_08]: That's kind of how it felt.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Nothing against Daryl, but it just shows.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, that's one of the cool things about Daryl is it made things more unpredictable

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_08]: on the show for us comic fans.

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_08]: It was cool.

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a butterfly effect.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I think having that and this is where it really started to feel like, oh, the show is going

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: to go in a different direction and that's cool.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see where it takes us.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I am so glad that you just rehashed all that because I only read the comics.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I read the comics one through Glenn dying and then I quit.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_06]: But I only read it once, so I'm glad that you kind of redid that because I didn't have

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_06]: time to look into that.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_06]: So that's really nice because I got a lot about Tyrese as well in here.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_06]: So if I could piggyback on you just a little bit.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_06]: One of the coolest things that I really liked about Tyrese is that you immediately get a

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_06]: sense of who he is.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_06]: You see his compassion and you see his empathy for others and you see that he is a very cool

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_06]: head in a crisis, which is great because his sister is not.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the way that he wouldn't leave Donna behind, the way that he carried Donna, the

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_06]: way that he took care of it himself.

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that that's really indicative of what we're going to see later with Karen and David,

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_06]: the Karen and David situation.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_06]: How open are you guys with spoilers when it comes to this?

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Everything is on the table.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no...

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_06]: OK, I love that.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_06]: OK, because I couldn't remember if you had a spoiler section.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't start telling the ends of random movies or anything like that.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_06]: But otherwise, Titanic sinks, y'all.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_06]: No!

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_06]: So that was just really nice to me, was that we really see his compassion right off the

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_06]: bat. You see the fact that, I mean, Carl's obviously a child, but he like you said, he

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_06]: reads the situation.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_06]: He's like, let the man go.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_06]: He knows that that's going to get him points with Carl, the child in the room with the

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_06]: huge gun.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, because he doesn't know for sure if these are good people, but he probably has

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_08]: a sense that they are. But why not play up to him just a little bit?

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Butter him up a little bit for sure.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's funny because since it is their first episode, I think to myself, oh my

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_06]: gosh, they're going to go to Woodbury and they're going to get on the wrong side for a

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_06]: while. And that's the most frustrating part of the beginning of Tyrese and Sasha, is

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_06]: that they just they went to Woodbury for, I don't know, stability.

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Who knows? Who cares?

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I would have just loved to have Tyrese on our side from the get go.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love Tyrese.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: He's great. And Chad Coleman just seems he has a really funny role in Girls 5 Ever.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_03]: If anyone's watched that on Netflix, he has a very funny role of playing the lunch lord,

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: which is a guy who just makes like catering size quantities of school lunches for everyone.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just love him. He's very good at comedy.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Very good.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_03]: He was good in The Wire.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: He was really good in The Wire.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is this when The Walking Dead kind of starts tapping heavy into The Wire cast?

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Heavy into The Wire.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_03]: But you know what? That's a good source.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Go for it.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_08]: So I might as well mention I have, you know, there's new actors coming into the show

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_08]: here. I did a ton of panels with Chad Coleman.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_08]: He was always a cool guy, a bit reserved behind the scenes unless we were partying.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And then he was just super fun.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Just have a drink or two and then he changes into a whole different person.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't we all?

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, right. And one time that I've told this story a few times, but you brought up Karen and

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_08]: David. We did a live podcast after an airing of that episode.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_08]: So the first time we saw when Rick banished Carol for having killed Karen and David.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_08]: And I said something like, you know, I love Carol, but I kind of don't blame Rick because I

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_08]: don't think Carol should have done that or something.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_08]: And the audience goes boo.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought Chad Coleman, who was sitting right next to me, looked down and kind of

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_08]: shake his head.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But he was kind of trying to stand up for me, too, I remember.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And then I said, what if Carol, what if Glenn got sick and Carol killed Glenn instead?

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And they're like, that's different.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_08]: But and then the other thing about him is I just had that experience of him being like

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_08]: when we were on the podcast, we were all drinking and he was so fun and gregarious and

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_08]: everything. And then I asked him to do an interview and he came on to this podcast,

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_08]: episode 123, and I was expecting him to be like, hey, what's up, buddy?

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_08]: And he's like, hello.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe he was hungover or something.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_08]: But he came around during the interview.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_08]: It's 123, like I said, link in the show notes.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing. Yay.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember being at Walker Stalker and he like waved at you, Jason.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_03]: We were like having a conversation.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: He was like, oh, hey.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, oh, Toby just waved.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Cool. You must be so cool, Jason.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, oh my God, Jason knows all the people.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I think I recognize you.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I like to just wave at everybody.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. We're best friends.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_08]: For sure.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_08]: He won't leave me alone.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_06]: God, that Greg Nicotero won't stop blowing my phone up.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Kristen, you want to do a new point?

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_06]: One of the things that I noticed right off the bat in this episode is Glenn has a black

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_06]: eye where his eyeball pops out later when he dies.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh no.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm wondering if that's kind of a nod to the comics, because maybe they didn't know

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_06]: if they were going to have Glenn's death be Glenn's death, you know?

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_06]: But it was his right eye.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't remember when number 100 come out.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you? Since that was the last one you read.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you remember where the series was at that point?

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Episode or issue 100 is Glenn's death.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. But what I'm saying is when that came out.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_08]: So they knew that's how it was going to be done in the comic.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Where was it?

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It came out 11th of July 2012.

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_08]: So it was before this.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Season three came out very, very near.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It was only a couple of months before.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, the two were existed.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh yeah. Maybe it was a nod to it.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_08]: OK.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So I really enjoyed that.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I enjoyed seeing Glenn kind of get savage with a walker.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I just thought that that was really great.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Like he is so intent on protecting Maggie that he is going to.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you call that?

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to maim a body, you know, and he's just going to like get the bone and

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_06]: whatever. And then you see Maggie later.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_06]: That's her first human kill.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I really. You know, Kristen, I was like, holy shit.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Glenn famously doesn't kill anyone until season six.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But Maggie.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But when he does, he really goes for it.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he does.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_06]: But he gives the weapon to Maggie to use and she ends up, you know, killing whatever

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_06]: his name was. I can't remember.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Some dude.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Guy who dies by neck wound.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_08]: But I was thinking when he started doing that, if it wasn't a TV show and you didn't

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_08]: need to stage scenes for drama, you might want to tell her what you're doing.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe a little bit.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I did have to watch it with the sound turned down.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, it wasn't so bad without the noises.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh, oh, oh.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the noises really, really help with the disgustingness of that moment.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, just knowing that Steven Yeun is this Academy Award winning actor and we

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_06]: are just so lucky that we got to have him in this role and what he got to do with this

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_06]: role. And this is just such a wonderful episode.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we really see how much Maggie and Glenn truly love each other.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, in this episode, they are with with no, you know, with Rick not coming, they're

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_06]: going to die. Right.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_06]: The bag is being put over their heads.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_06]: The last thing they say to each other is I love you.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_06]: They're holding hands.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_06]: They're going down together.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It's like a kamikaze mission almost.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. And and you see that they are totally devoted to one another.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And then when you see that Glenn is about to die by Merle's sword hand, Maggie is just

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_06]: get away from him.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Like she just has this deep villain rise out of her, you know.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_06]: So I really, really enjoy seeing Maggie and Glenn at their best and at their closest,

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_06]: because to me, this is this is the highest Walking Dead for me.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_06]: When Maggie and Glenn are together, when this gang is together, season three, season four,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_06]: this is my Walking Dead.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_06]: This is what I love so much.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_06]: And seeing Maggie and Glenn together just warms my heart all the time.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. It's so good.

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. And he's like really someone said, maybe it was you Lucy last week about him sort of

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_08]: coming into his manhood.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And it really felt like that in this episode, too.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_08]: He just looks like such a badass.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, because he's always been kind of scrappy.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And now he's a man.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I totally agree.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And Merle doesn't realize.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Merle's like, oh, do you do my job?

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, no, he's going to fuck you up.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love it.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to piggyback.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that as well.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Kristen, I thought it was so powerful, the two of them together and Maggie's line about all this

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: time running from walkers.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: You forget what people do and what they've always done.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just they both come out fighting.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I love it. They nearly win.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Like and in a way they do win because the gunfire is what draws Rick to them.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So like, although they don't win that hand on hand combat, it's actually a good thing that they did

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_03]: that because that's how they're located.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But the bags over their heads.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And I just when they're saying, just keep looking at me again.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It reminded me of Glenn's horrible death.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, God, I can't.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_06]: So many call forwards.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_08]: That's the one of the things about the rewatch is you get sad seeing these characters because,

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_08]: you know, how most of them are going to die in Glenn's worst because it's so awful.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just Glenn's is the worst.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_06]: It's the worst.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_06]: It sucks forever.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Kristen.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You come back anytime.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Our question for you.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Our questions are like, how many Negan's do you hate and why?

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: We'll just talk about it.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: The two of them together is just it's so lovely.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And Glenn gives her his shirt like it would be really shitty if he didn't imagine just

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_03]: sitting there. He's like, man.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_08]: He's like, I'm a little cold.

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little cold.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll just keep my t-shirt on.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_06]: He also doesn't seem to believe her that the governor didn't rape her.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's a recurring thing.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_03]: He asks her more than once.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Really doesn't believe that that didn't happen.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And what do you what do you think's going on there psychologically?

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_08]: With him?

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess it's one of his worst fears that that would happen and she's he just worried for

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_08]: her and wants to make sure that she's as okay as she's saying she is.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think sometimes.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't mean this is like a slight against Glenn and I don't mean to like generalize

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: against men here.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But what's happened to Maggie is.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It's still sexual assault and it's still complex.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But I wonder if it's less fathomable if you're not a woman.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And sorry, Jason.

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying like, no, you can't have an opinion on this.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: But like, I guess Glenn's getting his head around something really terrible having

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03]: happened to them both.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And the worst thing he can possibly think of is that she's been raped, which is

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: which is terrible.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03]: But what's happened to Maggie is is is very upsetting, but it's not that.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's still really upsetting.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I just I wonder if he's like she's so something has changed in her because of what

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_03]: has happened to her.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess his fear is that she's cutting that or hiding that away from him.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he wants to be there for her, but that she wouldn't tell because often people

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: don't. But I do think there's maybe something there about like.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: If you wrote it down on paper, what happened to Maggie, if you just said it

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_03]: really bluntly, like he asked me to take my shirt off.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I did. Then he was behind me and then he wasn't like it can sound not that.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was bad. It was horrible.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I guess I'm expressing myself very well.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think you're if you don't mind.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you're doing OK here.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I think a lot of what happened, what what Glenn feels here and of course, this is

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_06]: conjecture. Right. But I feel like a lot of maybe how he feels is that he he he

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_06]: wasn't there. He wasn't there, but he was there.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_06]: He has no idea what happened beyond that wall.

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And he was helpless.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_06]: And he probably had every picture in his mind happening all at the same time.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_06]: What is this man doing to the woman that I love?

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. They're not married yet.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. They didn't have their little zombie wedding ceremony yet.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_06]: And so, you know, when he sees her, he's my my guess is that he has made himself

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_06]: crazy on the other side of that wall.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_06]: And he has decided what the governor has done.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And so when he comes over and she's telling him, no, that didn't happen, whether

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_06]: it happened or not. Yeah.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_06]: He he can't believe that because he's decided that it happened.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, especially when she came in with no shirt on.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Then maybe he decided right then, you know, it's evidence.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. But yeah, I guess because I'm sorry.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_08]: This is all sort of forming in my brain right now what I'm getting at.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, thinking about it more, I think it's kind of like what we've talked about.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Rick feeling possessive, you know, and Glenn, I wonder if part of that is more about

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_08]: his own self, like feeling like he would be more of a failure if that happened, you

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_08]: know. And and so and I think it's maybe all of it wrapped up in one like it's care

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_08]: for her probably first and foremost.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_08]: He wouldn't want that to happen to her.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_08]: He wanted to make sure it didn't happen for her own sake.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_08]: But also if it did, then he would feel like even more like, fuck, I was I couldn't do

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_08]: anything about it. You know what I mean?

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. I mean, and I think, Lucy, what you were talking about earlier, maybe and if

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm wrong, totally tell me I'm wrong.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_06]: But when you say that it's not fathomable to Glenn, it's like the fear of what could

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_06]: happen is just kind of rooted inside of us, inside of our woman wired brains there.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a like we're kind of grown up with our with women around us that tell us, you

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_06]: know, like, don't do this, don't do that.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Walk like this. Walk like that.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, everything like that.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_06]: So for us, you know.

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, it was sexual assault.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Did he? No, I can get by this.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I can get through this.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I can compartmentalize this.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not that's not something that I think Glenn would be able to do.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not something that if I said, no, he, you know, touched my boobs and he stuck

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_06]: his penis, you know, like, yeah, no, there's there's not that their relationship, I

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_06]: think, would be over because Glenn would never be able to separate that again.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think as women, we're able to separate our these micro sexual aggressions that

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_06]: happen to us along our life that we make allowances for.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And then when something big happens, we're able to brush it under the rug.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we're not supposed to be able to do that, but we're able to do that.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's different for men, especially when somebody that they really

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_06]: care about and they really love when it's affected by them personally.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, this happened to the woman I love.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's talk about this, you know?

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And the woman's like, no, listen, I'm fine.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Nothing's nothing actually happened.

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, like, let's move on.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_06]: You're almost dead, Glenn.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_06]: You can't walk.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's take care of you.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know if that makes any sense.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think you're right.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you see in the next couple of episodes there's a bit of back and forth

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: with Maggie, almost like it happened to her, not to Glenn.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Like if that makes sense, there's a bit because he says something to Rick about

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: like, I can't remember what he says, but he says something like what he did to

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Maggie. And it sounds like Maggie's been raped and Maggie's just like, I think

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: she's trying to like push the car out of the mud and she's just like, can we not?

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of with Maggie on this one.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: She's just like, can you just like, I need I need to just do my own thing.

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I think ultimately, yeah, the reason he keeps asking is because he

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: can't believe that it didn't.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Not because he doesn't believe Maggie, but because.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like the equivalent of what happened to him in his mind.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I don't know.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he's not like, oh, this is as bad as if I was actually.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But for him, he's like, you know, something really bad and traumatic has happened to

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_03]: me. It must have been that for her as well, which it was, but

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_03]: not in the way he was anticipating.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I got to admit, I am totally lost by this conversation.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe you guys are like, yeah, that's our point.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_08]: But I don't really understand what you're talking about.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't get the core of it.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_08]: What happened?

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_08]: I want to understand, but I don't know if we should just talk.

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. I mean, it's a big subject.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's a very big subject and it's not really for a podcast.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I do. I do understand the thing about how women

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_08]: are looked at lasciviously all the time.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, little comments, touches, you know, assaults

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_08]: like that. You guys have to deal with that constantly.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_08]: And if we know us men don't take a little moment to realize

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_08]: that, then it might just escape most of us that we don't even know that that's

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_08]: going on. So I feel like that's a part of what you're talking about.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_08]: But other than that, I don't really understand.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's OK. And it's good that you don't understand that.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_06]: That's this. I mean, to me, it's good because it means that you haven't been

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_06]: touched by it, I think, in your life.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_06]: But this is something that definitely affects Maggie and Glenn

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_06]: in the coming weeks.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's cool to watch how their relationship evolves

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_06]: and changes into something new in the coming weeks.

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, they become a lot closer. They get married.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, they become a unit, really.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. So maybe.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. And it's interesting because it's all part of

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_08]: how I feel like unfortunately, I mean, I love them as a couple,

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_08]: but Glenn's character became kind of boring.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But I mean, maybe that's too big of a blanket statement.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_08]: I just really loved Glenn when he first came on the scene.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And he was a bit of comic relief.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And I know Steven Yeun didn't want him to be that way.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And I can totally respect that.

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And now he's badass hero.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_08]: But there's a lot of badass heroes and there's only one Glenn.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_08]: And so there's a part of me that laments the loss of that

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_08]: sort of naive guy that we met.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_08]: But he can't say that way. It's the zombie apocalypse.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_08]: So but I also think I'm sort of talking on both sides of this issue.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_08]: But I think Steven Yeun, he wanted to be more of a man and

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_08]: wanted Glenn to be more of a man and everything.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_08]: But also he wasn't happy with the storylines that Glenn got after this.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_08]: For the most part, he wanted more for Glenn to do.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, I think he probably wanted Glenn to actually be a darker character.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_08]: He likes those darker characters, not just be a saint.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, too bad you're Glenn.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_06]: And Glenn is perfect and he's wonderful.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_06]: And Steven Yeun, get over it.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_06]: It's actors.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, he left and he found some other interesting roles to do.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's fine.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And he won an Oscar.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_06]: La la la.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I know.

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Lame-o.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_06]: He was in an episode of Big Bang Theory.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, we still got that going for us.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah. He was.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Just today.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Who was it?

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_08]: It was Nathan Eshelman wrote to me and said, hey, Karen, she and I have been

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_08]: talking about this Steven Yeun movie burning and we think you should cover it

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_08]: during the break. And I'm like, yeah, I know that movie.

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_08]: I watched it, loved it.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_08]: He plays a dark character in that.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And I actually asked him about it on a panel one time.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_08]: But maybe I don't know.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_08]: I was thinking it might be a little too slow and cerebral for people.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_08]: But let me know if you're hearing me and you would like us to cover that.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe I'll put up a poll or something because it's a really interesting movie.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Love him.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Love him.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_08]: OK.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we've been tracking the point at which Andrea becomes unsympathetic in this

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_03]: arc, like because up till now we've both been like, you know what?

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_03]: She does. She's not wrong from where she's sitting.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've got a point called all of the red flags come at once.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_03]: So Andrea, I could not remember.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why does Michonne not kill the governor here and now?

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's because Andrea walks in and there's this moment of confrontation

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: between her and Michonne.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_03]: She doesn't kill Michonne.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Michonne leaves.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So Andrea runs to the governor to comfort him.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And then within like.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I would say 30 seconds, she's seen his eyes all gross.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_03]: He's been stabbed in it.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_03]: The Walker television set is broken and there are still some heads in there

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_03]: and his zombified daughter is dead on the ground and her best friend has just

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_03]: tried to kill him and run away.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And at this point I was like, you know what?

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to call it.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the point at which Andrea becomes unsympathetic because you could not have

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_03]: more red flags if you tried.

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Like even at the start of the episode, she sees the photo of him and his wife

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and Penny while she's like doing her blonde hair, looking at the blonde curly

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: haired wife like, huh, I kind of look like her.

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: But really, this is the point where I'm like, oh boy, OK, you got to get out here

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_03]: girl. This is this is not saveable.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: This is not OK.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think she, I think the final nail in the coffin will be when she realizes

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_03]: that he's been keeping the prison and the group a secret from her.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, when he wakes up from his eye surgery or whatever the nurse has done

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_03]: to him, by the way, disgusting, cannot cope with stuff happening to eyes.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, cannot deal with it.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely gross. Did not need to see that.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever. Andrea's like, gives him a bit of a hard time.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I mean, he has just lost his eye and she's like the fish tanks, the

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_03]: heads. And I'm like much as I'm like, yes, girl, red flags.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also like, give him a minute.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he did just lose his eye.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, he says, I made myself look at them to prepare me for the horrors

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_03]: outside. She asks about Penny and he doesn't answer.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Milton and Merle come in and we have that iconic governor look with the

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03]: one eye and the rage at Merle who he's decided is going to be the scapegoat for

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_03]: everything. So from this point on.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I am claiming whatever amendment is that says I can see that Andrew's being an

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: idiot because I think after this point she is starting to be an idiot.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I think.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Really, and it caps off.

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I was just going to say it caps off with her seeing Merle and Daryl in the middle of

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_06]: the of the arena.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Like now she knows who the group was that infiltrated.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. Yes. Who she took shots at.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. Because so all this stuff like what I've been saying about the governor is if

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_08]: it was just that he had his zombie daughter there and he was hoping to revive

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_08]: her, then he's Herschel basically with his zombie relatives in the barn.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_08]: Right. And that's misguided but not evil.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_08]: But so what what she hasn't seen that Michonne has seen

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_08]: is this evidence that there's bullet holes in these soldiers trucks.

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_08]: So what happened there? You know, that's suspicious.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_08]: And Michonne knows that the governor sent his men out to kill her.

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_08]: So Michonne now has incurable proof that the governor is a bad guy.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_08]: But Andrea doesn't know any of that.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_08]: The fish tanks is definitely a red flag the way he explained it.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I could see excusing that.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe I'm in a red flag excuser.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_08]: But then the zombie daughter, like I said, it's not great, but it's like

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Herschel with the barn. So but so then there's Michonne there and she her thing

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_08]: with Michonne is Michonne has been just paranoid about him.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And now I could see her thinking, now she just broke in here to kill him like God

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne. You know, that's my boyfriend.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_08]: What are you doing? And maybe I didn't know you as well as I thought I would.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_08]: But then, Kristen, when you mentioned like Daryl and knowing that's

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_08]: the group. OK, yes. After this, if Andrea like you, I can't remember, but you

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_08]: would think Andrea would be like, I got to get the fuck out of here after this.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think she starts to want to play a double agent and then she wants to

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_06]: escape. And then we know what happens after that.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, she should have left when Michonne left.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_06]: I I got to say, if you're going to spend this much time because they've spent about

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_06]: a year together, right?

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Or it's at least the length of a pregnancy.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. Yeah. So that in this world, you would think that they

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_06]: have a level of trust that if Michonne says no, we got to go

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_06]: that you go, you know?

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_08]: No, I fully disagree with that.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_08]: You do. Yeah. Because like say you went to college with somebody for four years and

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_08]: then you met your future husband in the college room.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_08]: It was like, I don't like this guy, but you love the guy.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Then you're sort of like or I should say future wife since I should put myself in the

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_08]: situation that I'd be like, I'm done with the college stuff.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And I met this woman and I'm going to marry her.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_08]: What don't you like about her? You know, I mean, should it talk to her more about

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_08]: specifics. And that's what I always argue.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne was gathering all this evidence.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Why didn't she present it?

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_06]: In that room?

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_08]: She didn't say anything about the bullet holes.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, well, she said he doesn't let anyone leave.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Haven't you noticed? And so then Andrew's like, well, let's go test it out.

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_08]: They go to the gate and they open the gate.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead. Leave.

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_08]: So from Andrea's point of view, Michonne's what she didn't know is

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_08]: that they then chased after Michonne and tried to kill her.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_08]: But they hide that from Andrea.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Andrea could do with asking more questions and Michonne could do with giving

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_03]: more answers. Yeah, I think it's a two way street.

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Andrea doesn't want to see it.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_08]: That's very well said.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Michonne could be a bit more.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know because honestly, I mean, I understand what you're saying with the four

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_06]: years of college and then you meet somebody that's your future husband or whatever.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_06]: And I understand that that circumstance.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_06]: But I mean, they were they Michonne wouldn't even leave Andrea when she was like

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_06]: really sick.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. You know. And so that kind of a bond and that kind of trust with one another.

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I understand that they've been out there for a while.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And finally, she has a boyfriend in this warm bed, you know, like Michonne likes to say,

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_06]: which is one of my all time favorite Michonne lines.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And she just is like, no, you know what?

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to stay here.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you're you're in a world of monsters and you know this.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_08]: You're with this woman and you fucking have to.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_08]: You can't sleep, you're always fighting for your life.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And who knows if Michonne and Andrea met people along the way?

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_08]: But let's say for the sake of argument, they didn't.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_08]: So all Andrea knows is Michonne when they're out fighting together and then they do meet

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_08]: people and it's fucking paradise.

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And then Michonne's like, I don't like this.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's like, oh, this is how you're like when we finally find a place like you're more

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_08]: comfortable out there with your sword.

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_08]: But I we've been looking for a place like this, like this is what I want.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, that's kind of the way I see it.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what? I'm so glad that you put it that way because I totally I see that perspective

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_06]: that what you're talking about now, like she's feral.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Her and Andrea.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Andrea, I mean, we get our introduction to Andrea is I like this dolphin necklace.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Should I steal it? Is it stealing?

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, the first time Michonne's like, hey, we see that's right.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And the first time we see Michonne, she's like, kill, kill, kill.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Right. But I mean, it's hard to argue too hard because we know that Michonne is totally

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_08]: right. Andrea is totally wrong.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_08]: So but I'm just trying to get into their heads, you know, about where they're going to get

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_06]: into Andrea's head. It's scary.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's there's some stuff there.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But I would say I would say that this episode represents the Andrea turning point of after

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_03]: this. It's like, yeah.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_08]: But if it's true that from here out she is like, OK, I don't like this place anymore.

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's figure out how to extricate myself.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Then there's something to that.

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't remember.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_03]: She does say in I believe in her final episode, doesn't she say something like, I thought

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I could save everyone or something like she does kind of see herself as she does.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: You could fix it all.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm martyr.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_03]: How wrong she was.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_08]: All right. Where are we?

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Andrea's death.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Christa?

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, just to add on to Andrea just for a minute, just for just a second, I do

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_06]: see that.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Andrea is very taken with the governor calling her someone with authority.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you saw that when she was she's like, I have experience, I have a gun,

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_06]: let's go shoot everybody, you know?

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And he's like, yeah, I need somebody with authority, somebody who they know has

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_06]: authority. And it's like she's been here for what, a week?

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, maybe.

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. And she has authority.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_06]: She's the boss now, you know?

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that that's something that Andrea is constantly looking for.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_06]: OK. You know, she thought she had that with Shane.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, she didn't. Shane was crazy.

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Now she thinks that she has that with the governor.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, turns out governor's crazy.

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a pattern here.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Her chooser.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Her chooser button is broken.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what we like to say in my family.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's definitely the governor knows how to keep

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_06]: her pulled into him.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I think that's what he does.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_06]: That she wants validation.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_06]: She wants authority.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_06]: He does it with Merle too.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes. Merle wants to kill people.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_06]: He wants to be, you know, the big tough guy and he puts him in the tough guy role.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_06]: So that's what makes the governor really dangerous.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. Is that he's got exactly how he can pull everybody in.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_06]: And he's done a number on Andrea so far in the short time that they've been

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_06]: together.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. And I believe it.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I believe people can do that.

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Because I've experienced falling for someone and realizing,

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_08]: oh, shit, that person is not like I thought.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_08]: And they figured out what I wanted to hear and started telling

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_08]: me it and got their hooks in.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_08]: And it hurt, you know, but it was I found myself

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_08]: just sort of waking up like, oh, my God, what have I been doing here?

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_06]: How much time have I wasted?

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I do think that there's a big theme in this episode of just secrets

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_06]: just overall. I mean, when you look at Maggie and Glenn, you get the feeling

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_06]: or Glenn gets the feeling that Maggie's keeping a secret from him

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_06]: with Andrea.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like the governor is trying to keep Andrea by keeping

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Andrea in the dark.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like he's making these rash decisions

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_06]: because he's trying to keep Andrea with him for some reason.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that this is why we start to see him devolve a little bit.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not sure, but we have I just feel like we have all these secrets

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_06]: everywhere and they're you know, the governor has a secret room and his

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_06]: secret heads and his secret zombie daughter, you know, Merle's

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_06]: got a secret that he didn't kill Michonne after all.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's just this this vein through the whole episode that I feel like

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_06]: everybody's suffering made to suffer right because of the secrets that they're

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_06]: keeping.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I'm going to do a point now.

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Is that OK with you guys?

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Please. About about the governor.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Because my thing with the governor is if he had

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_08]: openly said, look, I have my zombie daughter here.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I want to explore whether it's possible to bring these zombies back.

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's crazy, dude. I don't care.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_08]: I just want to try. OK.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Are you with me or not? We have the city.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_08]: We're going to try. Maybe they could have tried, you know, and everybody was on the

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_08]: same page. But instead, he he keeps everything inside his

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_08]: whole true motives, his true emotions.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_08]: He has this mask that he wears for everyone.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that is the reason why he's a bad guy.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_08]: It's not Penny.

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_08]: It's that. But just looking, trying to look at the part of him that lost

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_08]: his daughter and thinks that he can maybe save her.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_08]: And when he's there looking into her eyes and trying to get her to look at him and

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_08]: then look at me, gets frustrated because he's really just wanting to see the same

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_08]: thing Milton was wanting to see with that zombie last week.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Some sign of humanity still there.

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's his daughter. And I was imagining I know this is bleak, but myself looking

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_08]: at my one of my zombie sons, you know, it would be so sad.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_08]: And then Michonne comes in and she

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_08]: finds Penny and takes the mask off and is about to kill her.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And the governor's in and he just turns into any father who

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_08]: was if you're in a room and an intruder comes in and has a weapon at your

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_08]: child's throat or whatever, that's who he was in that moment.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Please don't do that.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't hurt my little girl, he said.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And then she stabbed him through the head.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think, yeah, from that moment on, his whole purpose up to this point was to

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_08]: create this ideal world and bring his daughter back into it.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Michonne cut that off.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, in his mind, she just came in and killed his daughter.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_08]: He says, she killed my baby.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_08]: She killed her. And then he's crying, you know, and everything.

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's very, very...

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_03]: With his eye all gross.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, just to add to it, like stabbed his eye out.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_08]: And his whole world is rocked.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, so from this point on, his purpose is different.

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that he has the speech at the end with his people.

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_08]: He says terrorists attack, you know, that's what leaders do.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_08]: They frame things in a way to get the people on the right side of the conflict,

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_08]: calling them terrorists and has Merle fight Daryl and everything.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_08]: He's getting them riled up because his new purpose, I think, is just revenge.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Revenge on Michonne mostly and all of Rick's people.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_08]: He doesn't have his daughter to protect anymore.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_08]: So that's the only reason probably to keep Woodbury going

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_08]: and on his side is because he can use them to try to get this revenge

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_08]: that is now his whole purpose.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, so I feel there is a part of me that feels sympathetic with him

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_08]: as a father who lost thinks and feels like he lost his child,

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_08]: even though he lost her a long time ago whenever she became a zombie.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_08]: But that said, he's...

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_08]: The way he went about it makes him an evil person

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_08]: who needs to face the consequences of his actions, you know?

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Killing innocent people and lying and trapping people and all that.

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_08]: You can't have that.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Governor's such an interesting character.

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he is.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_06]: He's really, really, really cool.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_06]: He's not one note like some of the other bads

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_06]: that we've seen over the course of this show, and he's played brilliantly.

[00:48:18] [SPEAKER_06]: But I really found myself surprised again

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_06]: that I was feeling some kind of emotion for the governor

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_06]: when Penny was, quote unquote, killed, you know?

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Because like you, Jason, I did the same thing.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I imagined my daughter right there and I was like, yeah,

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_06]: you know what, I'm crazy enough that I'd probably do the same thing.

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Right, right. Yeah, maybe so.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I thought of Michonne as being sort of like Shane in that moment,

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_08]: you know, when Shane opens the barn doors and wants to kill

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_08]: all the zombie relatives and she's like, they're monsters.

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_06]: The difference is, is that I think we see an unspoken backstory

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_06]: of Michonne in the way that she sees Penny for the first time.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_06]: You see that she is immediately motherly, immediately gentle.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_06]: She releases the chain on the collar first.

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_06]: She tries to calm her, you know, like those are very mothering instincts.

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, she has that because she thinks it's a human.

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think Shane has fatherly instincts with Carl, you know, to some extent.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not saying they're the same person, but it's just an interesting parallel

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_08]: of the story, you know?

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, also the difference is that Michonne knows

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_08]: that the governor is a fucking bastard who tried to kill her.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Right, exactly.

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to swing in with a hot take, which is,

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I re-watching this episode.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So one of the most iconic things from the comics up to this point

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: is Michonne and the governor's confrontation,

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_03]: which comes from a completely different place in the comics

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_03]: because it's all about him having put her through this sadistic,

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_03]: repeated assault over a period of days.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And I wondered watching this, I was like,

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_03]: they really wanted to get to that confrontation,

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but did what leads to it warrant it?

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think, Jason, you're right that when we put it through the lens

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_03]: of she's just killed his daughter, it makes more sense.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_03]: But if she hadn't found Penny and she was just sitting in that room

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and she had been going to brutally murder the governor,

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: had he done enough to warrant that,

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_03]: even from Michonne's point of view at that point?

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Like he'd sent some people after her to kill her,

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_03]: but it seemed like we were gearing up for this big,

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_03]: almost to the beat of the comic kind of brutal thing

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_03]: where the governor was going to lose an eye

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and he loses it in different circumstances in the show.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But part of me was like,

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Michonne dislikes the governor for very good reasons,

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: but the intensity of her dislike is overwhelming,

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_03]: given what she knows about him

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_03]: relative to what we know about him and so on.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_08]: So I see your points,

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_08]: but I think it's hard to argue with somebody that,

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_08]: yeah, I know he tried to kill you, but chill out.

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not so much chill out,

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it's more like the intensity of it.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like, I don't think I thought for a minute

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that he was going to walk in and she was just going to stab him.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_08]: No, that's what I'm saying.

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, I know someone tried to kill you,

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_08]: but you shouldn't be so intense.

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, like I just think I don't blame her

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_08]: for being intense towards the man that tried to kill her.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_08]: I guess is what I'm saying.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Even though it was way, way, way worse in the comic

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_08]: what he did and there's no question at all

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_08]: that you would have all the intensity in the world for that.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_08]: In this situation, I mean, Michonne is just a very aggressive person

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_08]: and she's just been so pissed off at the governor from moment one

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_08]: and then he tried to kill her.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, fuck you, man.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I guess I can sort of see it, but I don't know.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_08]: I see your point too.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it went from a confrontation that she planned to have

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_06]: into an all out fight for her life.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe that's how they ramped up the intensity.

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think so.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_08]: And there was a panel with Danai Gurira and David Morrisey

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_08]: that I did where it was me and them two

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_08]: and I played that sequence on the big screen behind them.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Just them here gouging his eye out

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_08]: and they were just giddy about the whole thing.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_08]: The energy was just really high

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_08]: and they were laughing and teasing each other afterwards

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_08]: and he would say something about how,

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_08]: yeah, she just came in and attacked me or something like that.

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was so much fun to watch them watch that

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_08]: and they talked more about what it was like to film it.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_08]: But after doing so many panels, I can't remember the details.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh man.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think the other thing that's interesting is like,

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_03]: after the confrontation, she's quite vulnerable with Rick.

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I'd forgotten that.

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Like she crawls out looking like kind of a wounded street cat.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Like she's covered in goop and like Rick's furious at her for running off

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and he wants to cut her loose.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But she's so vulnerable in that moment where she's like,

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_03]: you need me either way, you need me.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to need help going back in

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: or you're going to need help doing something else.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just, my head canon is that the governor

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_03]: reminds Michonne of somebody in her past.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_03]: That's how I read it.

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_03]: That's how I make sense of it all in the context of what happens.

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_08]: She is giving off vibes like, I know guys like this.

[00:53:33] Yeah.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Do we know from the comic or, because I don't know.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Do we know what Michonne did before the apocalypse?

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Lawyer.

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Lawyer.

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_06]: She was a lawyer.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Lawyer.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_06]: So what I'm wondering then is I'm wondering

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_06]: if she just has a really good instinct about people, right?

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_06]: She just, she knows that Rick's group is good

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_06]: and she knows that she needs to be with them if she's going to survive.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_06]: So she's going to have to just put all of her cards out on the table in that moment

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_06]: because she sees herself in Rick, like we talked about earlier.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So she sees herself in Rick.

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_06]: What would somebody have to say to me to convince me to keep you?

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And so she goes with the, you need me argument.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's useful to you.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_06]: And it does stick.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Because he does.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_06]: He lets her in because of the baby formula from the get go.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he does.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_03]: He does.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so fascinating to me that she takes that vulnerability there

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_03]: after having been through that.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_03]: It just read to me like somebody who's been through something cathartic, but also upsetting.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_03]: I think what you said, Kristen, about those maternal instincts kicking in,

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: she must be thinking about her son.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_03]: She must be thinking about that loss in that moment.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: And she does.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It just really moved me.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Danai Gurira.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I think one of the things that makes The Governor so great is David Morrissey's performance

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and Danai Gurira's performance.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: They're both such good actors.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_03]: In those scenes of the two of them together, the ferocity that they both bring,

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_03]: it just makes it so layered.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just really cool.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you know what?

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you have something there.

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I think both of them, because they're both not original characters,

[00:55:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I think both of them came in completely over-prepared for their character.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_06]: They had a whole backstory.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_06]: But they're just total pros.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_06]: So they come in, they know they're coming into something huge.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_06]: They know they're coming into something...

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And Jason, you could probably speak to this because you've talked to them.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, my silly fan worldview is that they both brought everything they had to that.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_06]: And they studied that back character and they were like, okay, well...

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think if I recall correctly, David Morrissey used The Governor's book as his

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_06]: character development, right?

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_06]: So I mean, I just love the fact that they cared enough about the content

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_06]: and they brought in their own talent.

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Anything that I see Danai Gurira in, she's just amazing.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_06]: She's amazing in Marvel, you know?

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, everything she does is fantastic.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_06]: She's so good.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_06]: She's just so good.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_08]: And she wrote that amazing episode of The Ones Who Live.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Love that.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's my favorite episode too.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_06]: So good.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's just such a...

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just so good.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_06]: I loved every moment of the Rick show.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I called it the Rick show the whole time.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I...

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Watching these episodes is making me want to go back and rewatch it and appreciate it

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_03]: more.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And like...

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_08]: We said we were going to do a crossover with Talking Dead and we kind of dropped the ball

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_08]: on that.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_08]: I wonder if they still want to do it off the ask.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, we should.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That would be fun.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I would enjoy that.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Just for that cathartic...

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to spoil it well.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We're kind of open to spoilers.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it was just such a good payoff.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Agreed.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, absolutely.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_08]: The only thing that wasn't good about the payoff is it was like, oh, I feel like they

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_08]: both think that they're done now.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_08]: But you're wrong.

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_08]: You're not done, guys.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You're never done.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Saddle up, Andy.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Get those boots back on.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Get to Spain.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Get to Spain.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do a diorama.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, Andy.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Come on.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_08]: What's next?

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Who's next?

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't even know.

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I think Kristin.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Got any more?

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I can talk for hours on this.

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So you just tell me when we're done.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that we, and I don't know how much you guys have talked about this because I haven't

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_06]: listened to the last few episodes, but Carl has lost all of his humanity at this point.

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Would you agree?

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Carl.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_08]: No, I think Carl is trying to emulate his father.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_08]: And he's also, yeah, I think he's repressing his feelings about what's happened with his

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_08]: mom and everything so that he can be the man.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_08]: He's just trying to be the protector.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_08]: But I wouldn't say he's lost his humanity, although we are about to get to that part

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_08]: where he shoots a kid.

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe I'm wrong.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I guess that's my point.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's knowing what's coming, of course.

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_06]: But I guess one of my points is that when you see him walking through the prison, he

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_06]: comes in and he sees everybody fighting and he raises his gun and he shoots the walker

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_06]: and saves Sasha.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_06]: But like that bullet whizzes by her head.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I mean, that could have very easily been her as much as it was that walker.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And and there's just no care.

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I just see like a vacancy in his eyes when he acts right now.

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_03]: He's thoroughly traumatized.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Like one of my points, Kristen, no joke, is just poor Carl.

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's poor Carl.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Although I'm laughing because one of the…

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_03]: The way our house is set up, our kitchen has an open door so like when Peter's cooking,

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_03]: he can hear me rewatching.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And the episode in season two where Rick's about to shoot Randall and Carl goes,

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Do it dad!

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought of the emperor.

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Do it!

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Do it!

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like once a day Peter will just randomly go, do it dad!

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just so bad.

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But like he is totally traumatized.

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'd forgotten that beat where he stops and looks at the boiler room and I'm like,

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_03]: oh god, that was only a few days ago.

[00:59:38] [SPEAKER_03]: This guy had to kill his mom.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And I mean, that's his story right now.

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it's been his story throughout season two as well with Laurie being afraid

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_08]: that the apocalypse is going to harden him to the point where he has lost his humanity.

[00:59:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think, I wouldn't say he's lost all his humanity,

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_08]: but I would say that's the path he's going down if that's a subtle distinction.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I think that you're right.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that, you know, we are seeing a totally different Carl right now.

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_06]: There was something about him in this episode and I can't really pinpoint it because I thought

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_06]: about it for longer than I'm proud of.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, what is it that made me think this?

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Because you're right.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a lot of, you know, he does save Sasha.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_06]: He does bring them in.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_06]: He does make them safe.

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_06]: He does think of his baby sister and everybody and protecting the people left behind like

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_06]: his father would.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_06]: But there's a detachment to it.

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, he's going through the motions.

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and that detachment I think is what kind of separates him even further and further

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_06]: because he's so young and he has all these big feelings and he has nobody to help him

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_06]: through it right now because his dad's seeing people and everybody else is just trying to

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_06]: stay alive.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's so funny because like, yes, I couldn't agree more.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think one thing that made me laugh a little bit was when Herschel tried to lay

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: down the law and was like, I can't let you do that.

[01:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And Carl's just like my father would go and Herschel's like, well, guess you've made up

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: your mind.

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And just like, let him leave.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, no, okay, no arguments from me.

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, okay, fair enough.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But he, I think Carl is not allowing himself hope anymore.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I think his hope is gone.

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's, I think he's depressed.

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he's playing depression incredibly well for a kid.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: This kind of hollow, you cannot find anything good to hope for.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So as soon as his dad leaves, he's telling himself his dad's dead because it's easier

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_07]: than...

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he's trying to be pragmatic.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't go as far as you guys because when he's talking to Rick last episode, what are

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_08]: we going to name the baby?

[01:01:49] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, he's just and that's a hopeful thing.

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_08]: He wouldn't be like, oh, we shouldn't even give her a name because she's gonna die.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, he's like...

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I would have said.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think he's trying to emulate an adult.

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_08]: He's like, I have to be the man around here and protect people because my father might

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_08]: not even come home.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_08]: And he probably feels inside like he's an adult, you know, and so he can't let himself

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_08]: be too vulnerable and fall to pieces.

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_06]: So maybe, yeah, maybe that's what I'm seeing is that he's trying to be an adult and it's

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_06]: just not working out.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_08]: He saved them.

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_08]: He saved them.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_08]: They would have maybe been dead if not for him.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The parallel I loved is that it's very like Judith rescuing Magda's group.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_08]: I barely remember.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, when she's like, I'm Judith, Judith, hi!

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Although she does it with a bit more pizzazz because, you know, it's Judith.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: She's a bit extra.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I like that.

[01:02:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that kind of parallel there.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But all of Judith's people lived.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I just want to say that.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I know.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Mine tend to live.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_06]: She's so good in If.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I haven't seen it.

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I need to see If.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't see it.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it will break my little heart into loads of tiny pieces and I won't recover

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm just like, oh, but I really want to see it.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I really want to see it.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_06]: It will give you feelings.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll love it.

[01:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll love it.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_06]: It's Ryan Reynolds and Kayleigh Fleming, you know?

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I cry every time I see Kayleigh Fleming anyway.

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, oh, seeing the film with emotions.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Every time I've done panels with her, she's a little monster.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_08]: No, I'm just kidding.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: She's a real shit.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: She comes out high as a kite.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: She's like throwing up everywhere, shooting up drugs.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, whoa, Kayleigh, calm down.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_08]: She won't speak to me backstage.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I have to go through her manager.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't look it in the eye.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_08]: She's fired several staffers.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I have to call her Miss Fleming.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Norman Reedus is scared of her.

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Dog refused to work with her anymore.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my goodness.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I had Purrglen, Purrglen, well, Purrglen forever, but Purrcarl is one of my points.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love Carl.

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Me too.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_08]: Yep.

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_08]: That's one of the ways I pretty firmly landed on the opinion that this series shit the bed

[01:04:10] [SPEAKER_08]: is when they decided to kill Carl off because of behind the scenes contract disputes.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Because of Carl's dad.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Kill a country.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Not Andrew Lincoln.

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Not Carl's perfect dad.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Not his zombie dad.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_03]: His other dad.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like Andrew Lincoln fully agrees with you, Jason, though.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he also.

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_08]: He's like, yeah, I'm not really interested anymore.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like.

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I had one flippant point and one longer point.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: My flippant point is, oh, Axel, this scene did not age well.

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it was good at the time either, but we've got Axel being a bit predatory with

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Emily Kinney's character Beth, which never was good.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And then this scene with Carl saying you're a lesbian.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh boy, here we go.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I did love how she shut him down, though.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: This is interesting.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_08]: It's not.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_08]: They do end up flirting around, though, after that.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_08]: He's persistent.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but seeing where Carl ends up, I'm like, girl, you can do so much better.

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to marry Ezekiel.

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I know how much better you're about to do.

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Cool your jets.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You'll be fine.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, you'll be fine.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't cry too much over this guy.

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: He weird.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Kari Payton's coming.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I did enjoy Carl being a little bit protective of Beth as well, sort of glaring at Axel when

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: he left the room.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he got physically closer to did you notice that he started?

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_08]: What I admire and maybe I shouldn't even say this at all, but that he said, you know, you're

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_08]: 17.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_08]: It was like creepy.

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Get the fuck away.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_08]: You shouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near her after saying that.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_08]: But then he said to Carol, look, I haven't seen a woman in a long time.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_08]: At least he didn't try to pass it off like he wasn't even saying that, you know, there's

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_08]: something to that.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_03]: He was at least honest about being a creep.

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_06]: In the state of Georgia, 16 is too young.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_06]: 17 is not.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, boy.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_06]: That's fine.

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_06]: That was interesting.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's why he said that.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, boy.

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Just let yourself sit on that.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_08]: So what was your longer point?

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Just kind of the chaos at Woodbury.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like everything goes to shit.

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a shootout at the OK Corral.

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Shane shows up out of the blue.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oscar dies.

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Poor Oscar.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel even more annoyed about Oscar's death on this rewatch because I really liked that

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: actor.

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_08]: I missed it.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't even see it.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_08]: I must have been looking away.

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_08]: It just happened so fast.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_08]: On top of the bus.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_03]: He's just like, yeah, he's helping Maggie over the bus.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just really rough.

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I know the blue and I just feel like there was a little bit of a place for Oscar.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's very unfortunate for Walking Dead lore that this happened in the episode

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_03]: where Tyrese got introduced because that's where the whole one in one out thing came from.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_08]: We did two interviews with Glenn Mazzara and then the second one, which I'll try to remember

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_08]: to put in the show notes, I asked him about, you know, people are saying that you're killing

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_08]: off one black character and bringing in a new one.

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, what's your response to that?

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And I can't remember what he said, but we had.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine if he was just like, yeah, no, he didn't say that.

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_08]: He wasn't happy.

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_08]: That's in the show notes.

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, we do that.

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That's the rule.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it was unfortunate timing.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think they could have had him around longer, but I think it would have been unrealistic

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: to have nobody die in that conflict.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_08]: I just think, what are you doing going on a life or death mission for people that you

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_08]: don't know?

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And then look what happened.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_08]: So you're saying he deserved it.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not saying he deserved it.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_08]: You should have known.

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_08]: But no, I'm just like, it's an unfortunate turn for this character because the actor was

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_08]: so good.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, I would have liked to have seen more from him.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: No, he was great.

[01:08:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, we see.

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's funny watching it again, seeing where when the show budget starts to expand and

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: later seasons, I am like, oh, some of this really does look like sets, which is quite

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: funny.

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But we have this kind of stakeout outside the walls with Rick, Oscar and Daryl.

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: They sneak in through the pantry.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: They find this red shirt Woodbrian who Rick doesn't kill, which I was amazed by.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh wow.

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: The one time Rick doesn't just randomly kill a dude.

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_03]: It feels like Rick's getting back to himself.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_03]: But then, of course, we see him hallucinate Shane and that all kind of comes flashing

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: back.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_08]: What was the point of that, do you think?

[01:08:41] [SPEAKER_08]: Why have him hallucinate Shane?

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, probably just to get Bernthal back on set because they were all like best buds.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_08]: No, seriously, like why?

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't quite understand why they would have Rick cease is just another sign that he's not

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_08]: quite all there yet.

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's his mental break.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's a sign that-

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Ghost Lori is yet to come, right?

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it's all is not well really in the brain of Rick.

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Do you think that he associates kind of this tactical police move that they go to extract

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_06]: them and all the firefight that came after that?

[01:09:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it made him kind of think about when he was a cop with Shane and then it brought

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_06]: him to having to be forced to kill Shane.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, now Shane's on the other side of a skirmish like this.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I like that.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I think a line that really made me laugh, but it was actually quite a sad little scene

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in it all is when they're hiding in an old shop front and Michonne disappears.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's Glenn, Maggie, Merle, Rick feel like Oscar might be there.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't quite remember.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And they're talking about Merle and Daryl's like Merle's the governor like, oh my God,

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_08]: my brother got a job and they're like, no, I'm so proud.

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_08]: No, he's second in command.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well, that's still good.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: But something I liked about Norman Reedus's performance, because we talk a lot about Daryl

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_03]: is like someone who's had this like really traumatic childhood and a lot of his journey

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: is about learning to parent and re-parent and grow.

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_03]: The minute they start talking about Merle, Daryl becomes quite young again.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Like you can see it, the way he performs.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, no, no, I got to go get my brother.

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to get my brother.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It reminded me of the first appearance of Daryl when he was pissed off that they didn't bring

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Merle back from Atlanta.

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's something about Merle that takes him to that arrested development place of

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: him.

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And Rick is the one who has to be like, I need you.

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You can't do that because I need you as part of this team.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I value you.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, it's like the healthier choice.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But it was, I just, I don't, I like Daryl a lot, but I don't always credit Norman Reedus

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: with like amazing layered character acting.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, he does Daryl very well.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: But this episode, I liked that.

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I liked that shift in him and this panic of like, but my brother is here, which is very

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: believable.

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: That innocence.

[01:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: There's like an innocence to his eyes.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_03]: 100% and Rick recognizing that and being like, not right now.

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: We can't do that right now.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Should have slapped him.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just slapped him like your brother's a dick.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And then of course they get over the wall after a shootout that Andrea's in.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many moments of like missed connection and like, are they going to see one another?

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And surely Merle must have realized that it might be Daryl that's on the other side.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it surprised me that we don't see Merle like not shooting or trying to find his brother

[01:11:30] [SPEAKER_03]: like because he must have realized with Glenn and Maggie, if someone's come to get them,

[01:11:35] [SPEAKER_03]: that Daryl might be with them.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe Merle doesn't think that deeply about it.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Has he not asked them?

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Did he not ask them?

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: He did.

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_03]: He knows Daryl's alive.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it just is weird to me that he didn't think, oh my God, maybe it's my brother that's

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_03]: come to get them.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And yet then it all goes to shit.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Daryl disappears.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: We kind of assume that he's gone to look for Merle.

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But then we have the reveal at the fighting arena at the end with kind of evil governor

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: gets unveiled talking about terrorism, claiming the blame on Merle.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: He led him here and he let him in.

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Then all of a sudden Daryl's here.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Andrea's like, what the fuck?

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Daryl sees Andrea and is like, what the fuck?

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's all just a bit of a chaotic night in Woodbury.

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot happens.

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like I've barely touched on any of it.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it all stuck out to me as being particularly interesting those moments.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you got it.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_08]: What was it?

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_08]: You got to think that the governor would realize that Andrea is not going to like this because

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_08]: he knows that Daryl is probably Andrea's friend and that Merle was Andrea's friend.

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So much of the governor, though.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought this, sorry, I thought this earlier and I didn't I didn't sort of interject

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: as like the governor is all about control.

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It's about controlling other people, his responses to things, controlling Andrea, preventing

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: her from making her own decisions, controlling Merle.

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Even that scene where we see his daughter, who, by the way, the kid actor that plays

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: that zombie is amazing.

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I was, I was like, I wonder who that was because she was fantastic.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But he wants to control her responses to him.

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: He wants to be able to control it so that she's focusing on him and he can't.

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when he loses it and gets angry.

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And the way he tries to seize control of the narrative at the end, particularly interesting

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: given that a lot of politics all over the world right now is about seizing control of

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_03]: narratives and pointing the blame at one side or the other.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_03]: But it just seems particularly pointed in this particular scene.

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_06]: You see, yeah, you definitely see him trying to control the story for sure.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_08]: And I mean, I think that's how that's what leaders try to do.

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Frame a situation in a way to get everyone to do what they want them to do, you know?

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_06]: You just have to have somebody that has good ideas.

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Good, yeah.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Good heart that has their interests at heart.

[01:14:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Did you know that this was the first time that Merle and Daryl had a scene together?

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, except hallucinatory Merle.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_08]: But real Merle and Daryl.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_06]: This is their first like face to face scene together since the...

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ever.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We've never seen them in real life.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_08]: It's weird to think about because a lot of Daryl has been his thoughts and worries about

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_08]: his brother. And now this season, Merle's been worried about Daryl. And the first scene that

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_08]: they actually have together is in this fighting arena.

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_06]: It's wild.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I like what happens with the fight though. I really like what happens in the fight.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't remember.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_06]: It's so fun.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm looking forward to watching it.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I don't want to know because I want to be unspoiled since I have a bad memory.

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_08]: That's one of the benefits.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. They kiss. They don't kiss.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_03]: They start making out and the governor's like,

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Daryl dies.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Fine, you can go.

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Daryl dies. Merle becomes the governor. It's all a thing.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Merle's the governor? Yeah.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I am, bitch.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I am. I am now.

[01:15:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Anything else? Should we go into notes?

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't think so. Yeah, I'm good.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Let me... I'll talk a little bit more about... So first Sasha, Sonique Martin-Green in panels.

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_08]: I think I did two or three with her. She was just very kind, attentive, present.

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_08]: One of those people when you're talking to them, they give you their full attention.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm like, I like you. And I remember when she got Star Trek, we were like,

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_08]: oh, I couldn't be happier for her because she's such a cool person.

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_08]: I did an interview with her. She was super nice in that too. It's episode 171 link in the show

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_08]: notes. I think it was towards the end of season five. I was thinking about her husband is

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Kenrick Green, who's also a really nice guy. He comes in later as Alexandrian Scott. And

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_08]: for the most part, I remember he was just kind of one of the guys that was not like totally

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_08]: in the background, but not in the foreground. He was kind of in the middle, background middle.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought he would probably die. He would be zombie fodder. But then they did more scenes

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_08]: with him and he was like, he's good. They should bring him up. I presume eventually he's going to

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_08]: come to the fore and be one more of a main character. And they kind of did, but not really.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_08]: But he survived the whole thing as far as we know. He was in season six all the way to season 10,

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_08]: and then mentioned Scott somewhere in season 11.

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he made it.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think he made it.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's say he made it. But anyway, and then the other one is Alan, who's their friend, I guess.

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_08]: And he's Daniel Thomas May, also super nice guy. He ended up doing the Walker Stalker podcast with

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_08]: James for a while, I think. So they got to be buddies. Yeah.

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's fun.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_08]: He was a nice guy. So I guess that's all I had to say about the new ones.

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing. R.E.P. Donna.

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. She's dead.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: The whole time I'm like, just got her arm off! She'll be fine!

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I have my IMDb dive and my timeline. So timeline's not that exciting.

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Last episode was day 303, and this is day 303 into day 304. In terms of IMDb dive,

[01:17:40] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of it we've covered. First appearance of Tyrese and Sasha. First episode where the

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Dixon brothers actually appear together in a scene. David Morrissey looking at a picture of

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_03]: his wife and Penny. The wife is actually Denise Huth. Something about them. I love when there's

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_03]: like a random fact. Yeah, a random fact in an episode where you're like, why is this in this

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: one? So makeup artist Donna M. Premick uses liquid dirt combined with dry dirt to keep the actors

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_03]: looking grimy. The actors call it sexy dirt. Citation needed. This interested me. This is

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the last episode to be rated TV-14. All episodes after are rated TV-MA. I saw that too. I'm

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_06]: surprised that they didn't change it to TV-MA in the previous episode. Right? I was thinking about

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: what happens to the eye and the arm and this episode shares the same title as the eighth

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: volume of the comic series. However, what happens in that volume is shown in the season four mid

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: finale. So that's the culmination of the governor arc with the assassinations outside the gate.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So interesting that this was the title because this storyline does go on for another full season.

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, another to the next mid season finale. So like a full season. Two half seasons. Yeah.

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. So that was the IMDB in the timeline. Did you get a little skeezed out? This was the one

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_06]: thing that I had. Did you get a little skeezed out when Tyrese was about to use his hammer on Donna,

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_06]: like right in their front porch area? Yes. Can we take the hammer shot somewhere else, please?

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Right? And then Carl uses that moment to just sneaky lock the door like...

[01:19:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I liked and then Beth said, we need to help him. And Carl said, I did.

[01:19:37] [SPEAKER_08]: He did. Yeah, that was pretty cool. That was a very Rick Grimes like, I feel like.

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah. I mean, locking them in there too was a very Rick Grimes move. Rick would have done that. He'd

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_06]: been like, you gotta stay there just till we know you a little bit better. Yeah. Fight to the fence.

[01:19:55] [SPEAKER_03]: He did that with Michonne. We fight to the fence. Do it, dad.

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Stuff and things, stuff and things. Stuff and things.

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_08]: My only note I had is that this episode was written by Robert Kirkman.

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, was it? Huh. He's quite a good one. The might himself. Yeah. He wrote good ones.

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_06]: IMDB gave it an 8.9. Pretty high on the episode scale. Any other notes or anything? Nope.

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Only on The Walking Dead would getting your eye gouged out be

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_08]: like only the third or fourth worst thing that happened to you that day.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Only on The Walking Dead would your boyfriend's zombie TV not be the biggest red flag about him.

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_06]: That's good. Zombie head aquarium. I knew I would have to do this and I've been thinking about this

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_06]: all day and I couldn't do it. But I thought, I was thinking only on The Walking Dead do you come

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_06]: face to face with your best friend and pull a gun on her after being with your boyfriend

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_06]: after five minutes. Yeah. Honestly, I... Honest to God, that's the best I came up with because

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I suck at this game. That's good. Oh, no, it's all... I like what you guys said though.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Only on The Walking Dead does Jon Bernthal show up to a gunfight.

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. Ghost Jon Bernthal. Ghost Jonny Bernthal.

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Obvious threat to untold numbers of citizens. The people he kills get up and tip.

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Are they slow moving, Chief? Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up.

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a Walking Deadcast News Update.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_08]: I just want to mention, I'm putting this in the news because I really want people to hear it that

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_08]: have pledged via Patreon and thank you so much everybody. And that is that Apple's about to start

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_08]: charging 30% more for Patreon subscriptions that are initiated through the iPhone app,

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_08]: the Patreon app. I have read this won't affect existing Patreon pledgers even if you subscribe

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_08]: through the app, so hopefully that's true. But if you've been thinking about pledging,

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_08]: use the website patreon.com slash Jason Kabassi. That's a plug, I admit. But also,

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_08]: I do want you to know if you're going to do it, do it through the website and not the app because

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_08]: then you'll be charged less. In addition to the plug of supporting via Patreon, I want you to know

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_08]: that if it wasn't for people who are supporting through Patreon, I don't think I would still be

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_08]: podcasting, definitely wouldn't be doing the whole Podcastica thing. So thank you so much to

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_08]: everybody who's been doing that. But I want to say honestly, there's other ways to support us.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_08]: If you don't feel like doing that, just give us a rating or review on any podcast platform.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_08]: That's great. But really, if you do nothing else right now, if you're in the US, the one thing we

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_08]: really want everyone I want everyone hearing my voice to do this year, just like we asked in 2020

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_08]: is to vote to vote in the upcoming election. If you if any of you guys vote and you write in and

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_08]: tell me, you know, I wasn't sure I was going to bother but you asked and so I voted. I'll just be

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_08]: thrilled by that. Or if you already were anyway, and just want to tell me, that's great. But please,

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_08]: please vote. We need everyone to vote. Yeah.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Go register to vote.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and I'll put a link in the show notes of where people can register to vote. I need to

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_08]: go look that up. But if you aren't sure if you're registered, I'll put a link in where you can go

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_08]: and check and then if you're not, then you can register.

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And you can check your registration too, because there's a lot of registration dumps that are

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_06]: rumored to be happening. But definitely is something to look at your registration status.

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Make sure. Yeah. So next, Max, you know, the whole Max streaming service put out this two minute

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_08]: teaser video with bits from upcoming new and returning HBO original series. It was almost

[01:24:27] [SPEAKER_08]: like too quick. Like, oh, I'm excited. Oh, there's another Oh, cool. This is flashes. There's

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_08]: bits from The Penguin with Colin Farrell. Dune Prophecy. I think it's a prequel series. Industry

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_08]: with Kit Harington. You know, Jon Snow. He has a part in that. There's wise guy, a two part

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Sopranos documentary. Creature Commandos is the James Gunn produced animated series in the new

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_08]: DC EU that he's putting together with his Superman movie coming out next year. Harley Quinn,

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_08]: great cartoon. And just like that, the Sex in the City sequel series, which I heard started out

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_08]: pretty bad, but maybe has gotten better. I don't know. I haven't watched it.

[01:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a great hate watch.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay. There's the historical drama, The Gilded Age season three Merritt Weaver is going to be

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_08]: on that show now. She was Denise from Walking Dead. It Welcome to Derry. It's the Stephen

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_08]: King It series and Bill Skarsgard is going to play Pennywise in that.

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, that's really exciting.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm excited for that. But best of all, I say the best for last,

[01:25:32] [SPEAKER_08]: the ones that we're covering for sure. The White Lotus in Thailand,

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Walton Goggins, who played the ghoul in Fallout is going to be in that. Carrie Coon from The

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Leftovers, Parker Posey. I can't wait for that. And Jenny and Randy and I will be covering that

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_08]: on our Welcome to the White Lotus podcast, of course. Then there's A Knight of the Seven

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Kingdoms, the upcoming Game of Thrones prequel series. Kristen, I was gonna look what that was,

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_08]: but I was like, hey, Kristen's on. Let me just ask her. What is that?

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_06]: That is that's going to take place 100 years before Daenerys Targaryen. And it is the story

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_06]: of Ser Duncan the Tall and Aegon, his little person or whatever. So it's the tales of

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Dunk and Egg. Yeah.

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_08]: One thing that I think is cool about that series is it'll be different than the other Game of

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Thrones series because it's more focused on just two characters, right?

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm sure it won't be.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure there'll be a lot of characters, but I feel like they'll be like the center of it,

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_08]: which is something new. Usually it's more of a there's no like main character. It looked cool,

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_08]: the preview, but what can you tell from 10 seconds? And then best of all, there was like

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_08]: a 30-second teaser of The Last of Us Season 2.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_07]: There was?

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Mentioning this on this podcast. Yes. And I only watched it once. I don't want to watch it again.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_08]: It got me so excited to see the second season. And it seems like HBO considers that like their

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_08]: crown jewel because they saved it for last and it was longer than any of the other ones. Yeah.

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_06]: They're doing the second game in two seasons, right?

[01:27:14] [SPEAKER_08]: At least two.

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Three seasons. Yeah. That's all I read about it. I'm excited just like you are. I'm

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_06]: can't wait. Can't wait. Yeah, it'll be fun.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah. I'll put a link to that teaser in the show notes in case you guys want to watch it. I'm sure

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_08]: most, I mean, I still consider us a Last of Us podcast as well as The Walking Dead. And I think

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_08]: most, many Last of Us podcasts and Walking Dead podcasts, they see these trailers, they dissect

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_08]: them. I think Talking Dead does that. I don't like doing that because I just don't want to wring all

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_08]: the pleasure out of it before it actually appears in the episode, you know?

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I feel about when you watch, and I know that you podcast on it is Great British Bake

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Off. When they go previously on Great British Bake Off and then they say now coming up and

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_06]: they give you the whole show. Yeah. I don't want to see that.

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just like, I'm here to watch this, not get a recap. Like, can we just wait for a moment?

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you want to experience it the way it was meant to be experienced. So next, this is about

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_08]: The Last of Us season two. IGN.com reports, Caitlin Deaver, who plays Abby in the upcoming second

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_08]: season of HBO's The Last of Us had additional protection during filming due to the toxicity

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_08]: surrounding her character. Speaking on the Happy Sad Confused podcast, Dina actress Isabel Merced

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_08]: said the team at HBO believe there could be an increased risk due to the toxicity surrounding

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Abby. Some members of the Last of Us community have expressed hatred for the character and

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_08]: harassed and sent death threats to Laura Bailey, who played Abby in the video game.

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Quote, this is what's her name? Dina actress, Isabel Merced said there's so many strange people

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_08]: in this world because there are people that actually genuinely hate Abby, who is not a real

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_08]: person. Just a reminder, not a real person. Caitlin had to be extra secured by security when it came

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_08]: to the filming of this. I just read that because it really bothers me when people equate actors

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_08]: with characters, and it reminds me of how Brighton Sharbrenough, who played Lizzie,

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_08]: got death threats as an 11 year old girl. It's crazy. Josh McDermott left social media

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_06]: because of fans and how they felt about Eugene, if I remember correctly.

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, when he became a savior. Traitor. I don't want to say he deserved it, but

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll just think it. Josh McDermott did not deserve any of that.

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm right, exactly. I hope nobody thinks that I'm saying that.

[01:29:46] [SPEAKER_08]: No, I know. I know. I'm just kidding. All right. Anyway, let's move on to Lister Moans, Groans,

[01:29:51] [SPEAKER_06]: and Grunts. Okay. Maria Granata says, I'm a couple of episodes behind, but I'm really enjoying the

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_06]: rewatch. I binged season one through six and started watching Walking Dead in season seven,

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_06]: episode by episode. Oh, I'm so sorry. I had not listened to the original episodes. I started

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_06]: listening to them from season three, and it's so fun to listen to your first reaction to these

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_06]: episodes and fun to hear all the speculations, such as if Carol was going to be alive or if Milton

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_06]: is putting poison in the tea. Also, listening to the comic book part since I'm not concerned

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_08]: about spoilers. I'm glad you're listening, Maria. It's good to hear from you too.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's amazing. I've got Dina. Hi, Dina. Hi, Jason, Lucy, and Kristen. Regarding my Merle-centric

[01:30:44] [SPEAKER_03]: letter from last week, you were both totally correct that he is in awe of the governor and

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_03]: he for sure loves his own position of power, but I was wrong about Merle's developing mistrust of

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_03]: the man. I swear that I saw a damn you rooker, wary expressions on Merle's face every time he

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: spoke with the governor as if he wasn't 100% buying the governor's bullshit. Watching this

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_03]: week's episode, however, I must revoke my comments about said mistrust. Now I see that Merle believes

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: or wants to believe the governor's promise to bring Darrell back into the fold, to bring Darrell

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_03]: into the fold because he was genuinely shocked when the governor turned on him. Dumbass Merle

[01:31:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and dumbass me. No, Dina, you're not dumbass. But hey, did you see Darrell? He was all slick

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: with sweat and his shirt was torn just enough that we saw some skin. Howt.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_08]: I just think Merle knows the governor pretty well, and knows that if he toes the line,

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_08]: that the governor won't turn on him. Well, yeah, maybe there's no guarantee that he won't, but

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_08]: so Merle believes the governor will let Darrell into the group if Darrell becomes their inside man

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_08]: and helps them take over the prisoner. That's what the governor suggested, right? And I think he

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_08]: would have. It's transactional with the governor. If you are loyal to me, then yeah, you can have a

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_08]: place here. Merle thinks he can manipulate Darrell because he's always been dominant over Darrell,

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_08]: but I think Merle knows that if Darrell doesn't cooperate, that the governor would kill him.

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the governor thought, yeah, if Darrell survives, he would do that. But the governor's

[01:32:24] [SPEAKER_08]: got no interest in ensuring that he does or doesn't. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But I just

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_08]: think if Darrell if it would have played out the way the governor wanted, where Merle had convinced

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Darrell to be the inside man and help them invade the prison and kill everyone else,

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_08]: that there's a pretty good chance that the governor would have been like, all right,

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_06]: you can be one of my men now. Maybe, I don't know. Merle didn't kill Michonne.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_08]: That's the thing. Yeah. Merle didn't know that Michonne and the governor just fought. I don't

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_08]: think Merle saw Michonne there, right? So that's why it was a surprise to Merle that the governor

[01:33:04] [SPEAKER_08]: turned on him because he didn't realize that he'd been found out as having lied about killing

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Michonne. You don't think that when he looked at Merle, when he said I was attacked, that Merle

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_06]: didn't think that, oh shit, was that Michonne? Yeah. He should have. You know what I mean?

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_08]: As Lucy pointed out, maybe he's not too bright. Yeah, no, it's all that blue math.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Merle's like, I was just really high. I was really high. I can't. Sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry, bud. I'm

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_08]: sorry.

[01:33:40] [SPEAKER_08]: All right. So this is a fantastic episode. In a lot of ways, it feels like it really sets the series

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_08]: of events that leads to the downfall of the prison. Absolutely. The fish tanks are just as gross every

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_08]: time I re-watch and Michonne shoving that glass shard into the governor's eyeball is vile, but so,

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_08]: so deserved. I don't think he would have let the group's existence go anyway, but this and his

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_08]: hatred of Michonne in particular made it beyond certain. He'd keep looking for them. Lots of other

[01:34:04] [SPEAKER_08]: interesting things, but I'm at work right now. And I want to talk about Tyrese and Sasha,

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Both characters who I love even knowing they will break my heart eventually

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_08]: There are two particular deaths in the show that still ache even after re-watching the whole series five times over

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Tyrese is one of them. No one could have done it like Chad L Coleman

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_08]: He brings an element of empathy and humanity to the group that's different from what the rest offer

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_08]: That's what you're saying Lucy and he keeps that despite what happens at the prison and after he's emotional, but I wouldn't consider him rash

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't add more because work is busy, but yay. It's all getting going

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks Robin

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_08]: All right, here's Steve Brown

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello the cast of us. This is Steve and this is for

[01:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the Walking Dead

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Season 3 made to suffer right? Okay. So right away we start with a woman screaming and oh there's that's not that's time

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Who is that? Oh and Sasha

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Guess I totally forgot that we were introduced to Sasha this early in the season in the series

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and they are on the other side of the prison, right? They're about to walk into is this would be I don't know the brick

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Walls, maybe it's not the prison

[01:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh and Andrea finds the picture of the governor and his previous his wife before her and how much they look alike

[01:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Even the hairstyle. Yeah, she's not your daughter anymore. She's a zombie governor. Sorry Oh

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Glenn why are you ripping this guy's arm off to use it as a weapon or something?

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, she says he doesn't want to take the prison

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_02]: He wants to just remove them and let the biters take the prison back over but leave would be the way it is

[01:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Governor I didn't think Merle doesn't look he's completely on board with taking

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Glenn and Maggie straight to the screamer pits is what he called him. Okay, dude creep it on Beth a little bit too much

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh 17 interesting. Yeah, no Carol's not liking that for sure. Okay

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You're not lesbian cuz you got short hair, that's what an idiot

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: She's not a lesbian, but she's not interested in you

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh and and Glenn and Maggie breaking out a short-lived escape, but but Rick and his buddies are coming

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well now they got the flashbangs and smoke, but Darryl's gonna see Merle at some point. He's got to right?

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh Michonne broke off on her own, but that's okay

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They got Glenn and Maggie now and they just need to get out. Oh and Glenn taking the blame

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He just he said we he's putting him and Maggie together Maggie's nothing when they broke they both broke

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He says we told him where the prison is and the governor's trying to keep Andrea from figuring out that these are her people

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: They just attacked them

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's sitting to do this errand of checking on people in their homes

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh and Rick just sees a vision of what somebody looks like Shane. Of course. It wasn't Shane his Shane is dead

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh Carl go to investigate he finds them fighting off walkers. He finds Sasha and them and he says come on

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: When Michonne discovers the governor's secret aquariums, and he's about to see Penny

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sorry. I'm going along. Well, she doesn't realize Penny's a walker. She's got the bag over her head Oh

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Katana through the head of Penny and now she's fighting Michonne's fighting with the governor

[01:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh when she got on the eye with that piece of glass

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh in the aftermath Andrea sees what the governor had hidden in heck. He's giving you food and water

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're locked in you're secure

[01:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not the best situation, but at least Sasha and Tyrese you're good for the moment

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Tyrese just said his house. Oh, so Rick Maggie Glenn made it out Michonne's out but no no Darrell yet

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh now the governor's gonna try to do a little damage control what he's throwing Merle to the wolves

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there's Merle didn't oh, I forgot this and they caught Darrell

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and now I'm gonna wait till I listen to the podcast for our watch the next episode because I don't remember what happens

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_08]: That's some willpower

[01:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Love him

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_08]: He said a couple things

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_08]: that

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_08]: he noticed Glenn said we

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Gave up the information about where the prison was. He didn't say Maggie and I'm thinking on one hand

[01:38:02] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's really nice of Glenn not to throw Maggie under the bus

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean it is but can you imagine if he would have said that Oh Maggie told him?

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Like dick fucking Maggie

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Someone can keep it a secret

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And then he said, you know

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Andrea saw the picture of governor with his wife and penny and she had the same hairstyle and that's just why I think that

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_08]: He was grooming

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Andrea to be a replacement mom for penny, but now I don't think we'll ever know because pennies gone and

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's move on a really random question before you move on I'm sorry

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_06]: You had somebody on the original

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_06]: original Walking Dead cast who in this quote lives in my brain is when she said machete to the face and

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_06]: We get that we get that this episode we get a machete to the face in this episode

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm wondering if it came from this episode, but it couldn't have right

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know talking about well, is there a machete in this episode? Isn't that what?

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_06]: the kid and Tyrese's group uses to like

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Chop a zombie in half in the head. Yeah

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought maybe machete to the face came from when Rick has his red-handled machete

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, but I'm not sure I'll have to ask Cindy because she said it Cindy from Walker Stucker. Oh

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Amazing. Well lives in my head. I say I say it out loud like once a week. I'm not kidding

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, really weird

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I can totally hear her saying it. I wish I had the sound by

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Tone to when you text me Jason, it's gonna say

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Josie I'm so sorry Josie. I'm just gonna say the middle name Josie Bowen

[01:40:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Actual this episode really fires things up

[01:40:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_06]: It does watching Michonne realized there is a little girl chained up gave me all the anxiety and goosebumps

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Especially when she finally realizes penny is a walker every scene with deny Guerrero

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Establishes and makes it so clear that she is a phenomenal actress her eyes convey so much

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Having read the comics just a few months ago

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Has made me look at all the scenes with new eyes as well as there are so many differences and reasons left behind those changes

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm glad we don't have to watch all of the trauma Michonne went through in the comics. It was really horrific

[01:40:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I did find myself getting slightly irritated at Michonne in this episode and several after because she's not

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Communicating effectively with Rick and the gang she disappears and they just immediately assume the worst because she didn't communicate beforehand

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Obviously this all works out in the end though, and we all grow to love that fire. We see between her and Rick

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_06]: I agree that after watching the last episode with the knowledge that they end up together

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_06]: It does seem that there were threads of their future interwoven from the beginning

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's one of those things that just plays out because writers notice chemistry and fans start to be on board

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_06]: This is what happened with Monica and Chandler of friends as Lucy mentioned last episode

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Think the writers finally likely started thinking of alternatives when they realized hands weren't loving Andrea in season 2

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, me. Thank God for deny and Andy's chemistry other notes. Yay. Tyrese is here

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I love that big softie lovely little Carl always seeing the good in people. He does such a good job

[01:41:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Scenes with Daryl and Merle together always make me want to just give Darryl a big hug

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I love watching his journey with Merle play out having Merle eventually off his back and out of his life to influence him

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Boss him around was truly one of the best things to happen to Darryl

[01:42:09] [SPEAKER_06]: That's when he's finally able to discover who he is

[01:42:12] [SPEAKER_06]: And as Carol tells him in season 2 when he's able to accept that he's just as good of a man as Rick

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for all your work Jason and Lucy. You're awesome

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks, Josie

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Our friend Jennifer McGinley says I love this episode

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But let me go back to the previous one for a wee second

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: It pissed me off so much that they stuck a scarf on Carol's head merely for Darryl to find later

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: How far ahead do they write?

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I wish they'd have given Carol a headscarf before that it really cheapens the show and Walking Dead is way better than that

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay this one that thumping music throughout I hope you know what I mean gets right into my belly and reverberates through my entire body

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so exciting. Not the only time it's used to this effect, but I believe it's the first

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Great seeing Tyrese and Sasha Carl really steps up here and goes does a grand job of keeping our group safe

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But also helping other humans smart kid. No wonder Tyrese calls him the man

[01:43:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Called him the man

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember why he pissed me off so much during my first watch apart from when he killed Dale

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been enjoying the character a lot and like son like father Rick kills Oscar now. What a douche poor Oscar

[01:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't help but wonder how long it'd actually take to get back on your feet and be a fully functional town leader

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: After having your eyes stabbed out by a shard of glass

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm pretty sure it'd be a bit longer than the 20 to 30 minutes intimated here

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm so excited to watch episode 9, which is chock-full of thrilling thumpy sounds of the thrilling thumpy sounds

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_03]: I love back then

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I was watching Walking Dead on one of those websites that may or may not be legal

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It'd be uploaded as soon as it aired in the US

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I set my alarm for 530 a.m

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_03]: To watch the episode before getting the rest of the house up and ready for school and work

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I never got a decent night's sleep during the midseason hiatus after seeing made to suffer and wasn't prepared to wait any longer

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Fancy doing that. What age was I 44 or so and behaving like a teenager?

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Then again, that's why I love this show so much

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It reignited a passion for pop culture that had been sparked out for decades got right under my skin

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I lived and breathed Walking Dead

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And scoured the internet for related topics and gossip when I found the podcast talking dead and yourselves

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I was elated my people my people they are like me. It really was the best of times

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I had great fun at the listener meetup was fabulous to meet Jason Lucy and my fellow listeners

[01:44:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, thank you so so much for doing that. Very much appreciated. Love you lots. Oh, thanks Jennifer. It was lovely to meet you

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I'm so for almost yeah, she yeah

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Did her daughter have a baby and she almost wasn't gonna make it but yeah, there was a little ass kicker

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: So cute

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_08]: So the best I when you said I gotta admit

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_08]: That thumping music throughout. I hope you know what I mean gets right into my belly

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_08]: I couldn't help but picture Mike Myers and Austin Powers saying get in my belly. Oh every

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_08]: All right, here's a call from Archmister Renny

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to say Tyrese and Sasha but mainly Tyrese

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I was really happy and energized when I saw the two of them come on scene in this episode

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Tyrese was one of my favorite

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Characters in the early seasons of the show at this point. I had not yet

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Started reading the comics, but when I did read the comics, I liked his storyline in the comics even better than in the show

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he comes in much earlier before

[01:45:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they are on

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Herschel's farm even and

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_01]: He because

[01:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Daryl doesn't exist in the comics

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Tyrese was one of

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Rick's

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Top lieutenants and he didn't have a sister in the comic had a daughter instead

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but I liked the

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_01]: invention of the character Sasha for the show

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I really liked Chad Coleman's performance

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Tyrese even better than I liked him later in

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: one of my favorite shows ever the expanse

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_01]: where he plays a very complicated character and does a great job of it, but I

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_01]: loved him as Tyrese and of course, I love Sonequa Martin green as

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Sasha and then later as Captain Michael Burnham in Star Trek

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Discovery the final season of which was finally finally finally the show

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought they were promising me in the early trailers and did not give me for the first four seasons. Anyway, that's a story

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So I

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Am just really happy to see them happy to have them on board and that was all I had to say

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: sweet

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, Renny. It's so good to hear her voice. It's so good to hear your voice Renny all the time

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Renny and I did an episode of the Zed head show, which is the patreon

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Podcast I do more or less every month and it was about our favorite

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Characters and I remember she had the character from the expanse and I think she said Michael Burnham to

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Was it a miss from the expanse? I don't know that show. So I don't but there was a lot of sci-fi

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I remember the expanse is amazing amazing book series amazing TV series

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Amazon should do all the science fiction ever

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, so did you ever play The Walking Dead telltale game? I have played two and a half seasons

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_08]: It's very good and telltale

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Put out an expanse game recently at least a chapter of it and it looks pretty cool

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_06]: The season 3 graphics changed and I it was unplayable on my computer so

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Mmm, I gotta figure the last

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_08]: The way it is season 3 I felt like was a bit of a dip but then they ended it really well

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was all still pretty good. That's a bummer

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Alright, here's Rachel Teal Edwards who says Sasha and Tyrese. Yes

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I know there's a bunch of great action in this episode

[01:48:28] [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm seeing these two for the first time

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_08]: But seeing these two for the first time was the highlight for me

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, I immediately think of the devastating and beautifully abstract death of Tyrese

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean I was thinking about that too and what that does to Sasha but I'll refocus my thoughts on the present

[01:48:44] [SPEAKER_08]: There are such strong characters individually and I love their dynamic as brother and sister

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Sasha immediately demonstrates that she's tough and does what needs to be done to survive and Tyrese shows his soft

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Empathetic side while still being a badass

[01:48:57] [SPEAKER_08]: There are two of my favorite characters, but I still didn't realize how happy I'd be to see them

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I same with me and I forgot that they came in this episode

[01:49:06] [SPEAKER_08]: So I wasn't really anticipating it but when I did see them I was just like

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_08]: I

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Have to play a bullshit card here, though

[01:49:15] [SPEAKER_08]: You're telling me Rick walked around the perimeter of the prison yard three times on their first night and then never got a group together

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_08]: To walk around the perimeter of the prison itself. I find that extraordinarily hard to believe

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Has there just not been enough time feel free to justify this for me. Yeah, I don't know

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_08]: It feels weird that there's this opening in the back of the prison night. I agree

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_08]: I know we've only been there a couple weeks and Rick has been insane for a bit, but I just don't buy it

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's also talk about how season 3 is full of badass women already

[01:49:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Especially compared to seasons 1 & 2 first Michonne who absolutely kicks the governor's ass in this episode

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_08]: My gosh, what a scene now Sasha coming in hot and even Maggie steps up and kills guy

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_08]: As many times as I've seen this that scene surprises me damn girl broken bone to the neck

[01:50:02] [SPEAKER_08]: It's like machete

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Broken bone to the neck plus Beth and Carol back at the prison who have yet to fully blossom but are well on their way

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_08]: It's refreshing and a relief to enjoy the female characters. I agree. I think that's one of the great things about this show

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Jason I still don't think the governor wants to marry Andrea because he cares for her at all

[01:50:24] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't either I never thought that but I just think he needs a replacement mom for Penny

[01:50:30] [SPEAKER_08]: But after this episode I can totally see that he's delusional enough to want her as a replacement mom for Penny. I

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Think his interest in her is more about him being mentally unstable than wanting a nice strong lady for himself

[01:50:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, absolutely

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Although I do think there's that Jim Jones thing where he just wants to sleep with everybody to show that he has control

[01:50:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Possibly and so begins Andrews pattern of ignoring giant waving red flags

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take a tally one you look just like his deceased wife

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_08]: To he clearly doesn't value your skill set

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, he wants her not to see that her friends are the ones he's trying to kill

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_08]: But still it's a red flag that he's trying to keep her off the battlefield

[01:51:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Three he keeps Walker heads in tanks for he was keeping his Walker daughter quote alive

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Five Michonne hates him so much. She came back to kill him and six

[01:51:20] [SPEAKER_08]: He makes Daryl and Merle fight to the death. Come on girl. There's your sign

[01:51:23] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I think at this point she probably does change her feelings about him

[01:51:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope but if she doesn't then yeah, she has that look on her face like I hitched my horse to the wrong wagon

[01:51:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Side note since when does she have quote some authority in the eyes of the Woodbury residents?

[01:51:40] [SPEAKER_08]: She's been there a week. Maybe whoever is boning the governor automatically gets first lady status. I

[01:51:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Enjoyed seeing both. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised

[01:51:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah

[01:51:48] [SPEAKER_08]: I enjoyed seeing both sides of the Daryl slash Merle plotline as the two groups converge

[01:51:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm noticing this time around what a big part their story plays in the overall plot

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Merle trying to get assurance from the governor that nothing will happen to Daryl Merle can't possibly believe him and Daryl having to put aside

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_08]: His instinct to immediately find Merle in order to help his new family instead. My heart goes out to him

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_08]: This is probably the first time he's chosen to deny his brother and obviously it wasn't easy for him

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Do we think he stayed behind on purpose?

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Once he was sure the rest of the group was out or did they capture him and the governor just got lucky as always

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_08]: That's a good question

[01:52:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, like you did try so hard to get away

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Quick note Michonne has obviously decided that she wants to stay with our group as evidenced by the fear and desperation

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_08]: She expresses when they threatened to ditch her. We don't often see a vulnerable side of Michonne in here. It was brief, but visceral

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Lucy mentioned that I agree

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Final thought Carol's keeping watching the guard tower with Axel. Are they doing stuff is the guard tower the designated hookup spot?

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, no, I don't think yet

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Um

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_06]: To go back to the bullshit card because I did think that that was a really big bullshit card

[01:53:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I actually agree with that big time because that's very not Rick to do but there is there

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_06]: There's to me that's just like in season four when the prison falls and all of a sudden there's no

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no plan. There's no rally point like they were all there for the fall of the farm

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_06]: How is it that we don't have a rally point and we have to spend eight fucking episodes looking for each other, you know

[01:53:25] [SPEAKER_06]: So that's that's my big bullshit card for the prison, but I can totally see them Rick perimeter thing too. But

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and that's why we have Department of suspension of disbelief because these things come up and they suspend our disbelief

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_08]: But they're there because it's more dramatic for them to have to keep looking for each other versus what they would clearly and obviously do

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Which is to have a rendezvous point to go straight to yeah, just go back to the Sofia car if you're ever in doubt

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Or the dumpster there is the dumpster

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_06]: There's always a dumpster. Yeah

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, Michaela Williams greetings longtime listener first time writer inner

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Writer inner I like that

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah

[01:54:08] [SPEAKER_06]: After some debate on how Merle reacted to the governor's treatment of Maggie

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_06]: I had to re-watch the episode to me at the end of that scene

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_06]: He looks rather shocked and for once lost for words

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_06]: You'd think after Merle and Glenn scenes earlier in the episode

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_06]: He would have exited that last scene with a smirk on his face like see I told you ass and you don't want to f with

[01:54:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Us, please. Please Lucy read that with your okay

[01:54:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Think you did it

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Georgia accent

[01:54:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But almost from the moment Maggie's brought into the room. He displays degrees of surprise

[01:54:46] [SPEAKER_06]: topping out

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_06]: At the end when he backs out of the room looking on while Glenn comforts her. Oh my gosh, I'm getting old

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I need glasses. I

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Want to think I want to think that there is a flavor of apology or at least sympathy

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I find myself having more and more patience for Merle and Negan currently in season 9

[01:55:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I couldn't wait this on this my first rewatch except for the season 3 episode

[01:55:12] [SPEAKER_06]: I fell in and out of love with the show many times over the run and stopped watching

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Completely when my first child was born, but the worst part was not listening to you at some point in 2022

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_06]: A convo with a colleague reminded me of how much I enjoyed your podcast

[01:55:29] [SPEAKER_06]: She and I would listen to the cast on long road trips

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_06]: After I would give her the play-by-play of the actual episode lots of long trips

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_06]: This was the only way she consumed The Walking Dead and she loved it

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_06]: And I loved being able to appreciate the show through her. That's crazy

[01:55:46] [SPEAKER_06]: So I picked back up and started binging but with a second young child

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Finished about a year after the final season aired and I slowly

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Caught up on your original recaps just in time for you to start the rewatch now

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I wait like a hamster for a pellet for your next episode drop

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for all the work you do the amazing guests guest hosts. You're welcome

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Conversation and willingness to address hard topics and embrace the existence of differing views all my love and appreciation

[01:56:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Michaela

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Transplant to Pittsburgh part of what sold me was the Monroeville mall

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_06]: No idea what I just read

[01:56:29] [SPEAKER_08]: That Monrovial mall is where the dawn of the dead was filmed George Mero's done of the dead. I

[01:56:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Think that's right and Michaela. I wonder is it still open and do you go there and shuffle around?

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_08]: I'd love it if the answer to that is yes

[01:56:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Imagine consuming The Walking Dead through just a podcast and your friends play-by-play

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I think that's a superior

[01:56:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's amazing like

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_06]: No

[01:56:55] [SPEAKER_06]: but I'm saying like she probably had her own picture of what everything looked like and who the actors were and what they all look

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah

[01:57:04] [SPEAKER_08]: When we were doing fear The Walking Dead roundtable rants where we would just complain about the episode for 20 minutes

[01:57:11] [SPEAKER_08]: There were people who were listening to all those that dropped out of the show a long time ago

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And I kind of loved that but yeah, I think with The Walking Dead you should probably watch it

[01:57:19] [SPEAKER_08]: But I'm flattered though. It's pretty cool

[01:57:23] [SPEAKER_08]: All right, we have a call from Renee

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_00]: About The Walking Dead

[01:57:32] [SPEAKER_00]: First off I want to say welcome back Lucy girl. I miss you

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Your voice. I'm so happy that you're back

[01:57:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But um and also Lucy I wanted to say to you

[01:57:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me see if I can see it as eloquently as you did the way that you articulated how a

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_00]: black person

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_00]: could feel

[01:57:58] [SPEAKER_00]: pertaining to Michonne having those two men in handcuffs

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you articulated it in a way I never could I could never and

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Just the empathy in your voice

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It

[01:58:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically have it had me in tears now. You know I said basically it had me really feeling some type of way

[01:58:22] [SPEAKER_00]: because

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You you can empathize with a black person and I think there's a problem with the world

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We have sympathy and compassion, but a lot of us don't have empathy

[01:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We're not able to put ourself in the other person's situation to try to understand

[01:58:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So again this thank you so much for how you articulated that and like you said we cannot be dismissive because

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_00]: You know I'm a black woman, but black men. They have it much harder

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So you know?

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_00]: To see that two black men in chains like that like I said last week

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I can see how that bothered a lot of people so I just want to tell you

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, and Jason as well cuz Jason like listen

[01:59:09] [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't like how we handle this podcast and

[01:59:15] [SPEAKER_00]: How we deal with real-life issues

[01:59:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Deuces I love that

[01:59:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But to this episode

[01:59:22] [SPEAKER_00]: This episode here. It's like Merle your racist ass. I cannot wait until you give it get it

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot I cannot wait to his ass get killed and

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Sasha and Tyrese man, I love me some Tyrese

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually did love Sasha until she back though Rosita. You know I don't like that

[01:59:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe in loyalty so Sasha I don't F for her at all

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_00]: She ain't lawyer either. I don't F for Sasha

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Overall the episode of course was good because this when they really got down to business

[01:59:54] [SPEAKER_00]: You know they did not play you can tell that they were they worked together in sync

[01:59:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And you could tell that Michonne was impressed by them

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And how they work together and the chemistry between Rick and Michonne man

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I saw it the first time the first very first time. I watched the walking dead

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like man

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I want them to to get together really really really really bad

[02:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I really do and even Darrell the chemistry between between Darrell and Rick is awesome

[02:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It really is and I feel like the apocalypse saved Darrell from becoming a racist piece of shit

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: just like Merle it really did and

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Carl so cute on what you Lucy he need a hug he that baby needs a hug

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: He really does he needs a hug oh and Alex

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Telling Carol that she's a lesbian and he might not isn't this interesting

[02:00:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting Carol says really not like sir get away from me sir going back. She'll be business all right. I talk to you guys later

[02:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Bye

[02:00:52] [SPEAKER_00]: peace and love

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: That's all I'm quite emotional yeah

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Mmm. Yeah, that was really nice of you. Thank you

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: We have one last message

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry. I just want to say another thing

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_08]: She said she mentioned a lot of ways that the characters have chemistry

[02:01:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Rick and Michonne

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Darrell and Rick and I think maybe one of the reasons why there's so much chemistry on this show is because

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_08]: The way that Andrew Lincoln set the tone on the set for everyone to show mutual respect and

[02:01:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Care and to be there during scenes that they're not even in just to give somebody something to react to and all of that

[02:01:41] [SPEAKER_08]: just made it such a great place to work and everybody sort of soaked up that vibe and

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_08]: You know so then it can come across on the screen. I think the family feel of it

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_06]: The 100% agree with that mm-hmm

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good point

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[02:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Where's my ah?

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: All right

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_03]: One last message about last week's episode from Jennifer McGinley

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_03]: He says watch this one last night as it's a rewatch things run through your mind that didn't at the time such as why didn't

[02:02:12] [SPEAKER_03]: They prepare for the baby by gathering formula Bobo's dumb does nappies or diapers

[02:02:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Moses basket and some other basics, I guess Laurie was planning to breastfeed

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But they should have been prepared for all eventualities all the prep involved learning how to do C sections and zero for the aftercare

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm rewatching along with my cyber friend. Who's a first-timer

[02:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: When Glenn and Maggie go to the shop

[02:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I told him to make notes of the fact that Maggie isn't wearing a bra

[02:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The internet was good fun during the brat on bra off teeth

[02:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Been reading some reviews of each episode which were published at the time many of whom are like Walking Dead is so pushing this Carol

[02:02:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Darrell ship, why don't they just get on it already? We all know they're gonna lol. Maybe they still will

[02:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I remember I used to read reviews from a website

[02:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't recall now and they refer to Darrell as honey badger and Andrea as NLR not Leanne rhymes

[02:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: This resulted in me and a different cyber friend referring to Darrell as HB thereafter during our many chats about the show

[02:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Hated the scenes with mr. Coleman more this time around

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So pointless and Milton's total incompetence seems at odds with his intellect best bit about this one

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Remember the Alamo pissing myself laughing. Ah, mr. Coleman the old guy not Chad Coleman

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh my god, and I was like, oh no. Yeah, there was old dude. Yep

[02:03:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Yep on it with you Jennifer with you. All right, that is a show up. So 594. Thanks so much for listening everybody

[02:03:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Thank You Kristen. It was a delight

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I want to come back again, please have me again. Yeah, come back in season 4

[02:03:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Okay

[02:03:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Next episode walking dead season 3 episode 9 the suicide King and I feel like I remember being kind of disappointed with the back half

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Of this season, so we'll see if that

[02:03:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Holds or not. It's gimpel

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_08]: head showrunner yet or is that that he stepped in at the end of the

[02:04:08] [SPEAKER_08]: finale, I think

[02:04:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Mazzara was fired like during the creation of the final episode of season 3 and

[02:04:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, cuz gimpel directed Andrea's death episode or something like that. Okay. Thank you seen

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_08]: That's here for five on

[02:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah

[02:04:29] [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it

[02:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: You can find all our contact information at podcast calm. Yeah, actually go there. I say that a lot

[02:04:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, how do I find such-and-such?

[02:04:43] [SPEAKER_08]: And while you're there you can check out our other podcasts like the revisited podcast

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Kristen want to tell us about that one. Yeah, so we are doing Ben and I do the revisited podcast. We started with lost

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_06]: We are

[02:04:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Finishing Ted lasso right now. We record the finale on Monday

[02:05:04] [SPEAKER_06]: And then we are moving into the good place after that

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Have you guys seen that show the good place? Yeah

[02:05:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we're trying to stay with the positive lighter shows especially through an upcoming

[02:05:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Election cycle and stuff like that and just stay kind of above with the joy

[02:05:26] [SPEAKER_08]: That's awesome

[02:05:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Cobra Kai's doing that for me right now. Yay. I

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Listened to the audiobook of Mike Schur's

[02:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: How to be good and it's all about the writing of the good place

[02:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It was such a good audio book

[02:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's basically he basically taught himself philosophy like he basically did a philosophy degree and the best bit is the actors do the footnotes

[02:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So you hear like random voices?

[02:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: so if you're looking for something kind of uplifting and

[02:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a bit of a thinker but it's it's nice it made me want to be a better person

[02:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm definitely gonna read it. Listen, let me know how you go because I loved it. I would love it

[02:06:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I would love to read that

[02:06:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and then I did actually guessed I guessed it on my own podcast from last year

[02:06:15] [SPEAKER_06]: but I did season one house of the dragon and then I

[02:06:18] [SPEAKER_06]: gave it to Wendy for this season and I got to

[02:06:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Guest on an episode this season and it was so fun

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And I really really loved that show and I also think that Wendy has done an incredible job

[02:06:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Like she always does with the podcast. Oh, yeah

[02:06:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Veronica and Rennie. Yes. Yes, and I highly recommend checking that one out as well if you haven't

[02:06:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Actually, just listen to my episode

[02:06:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I

[02:06:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Did episode the good one

[02:06:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think I did episode 5 yeah

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_08]: This episode is made possible by patreon supporters like a not icon who pledged their support at patreon.com

[02:07:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Jason cabassi. So thank you to a not I

[02:07:12] [SPEAKER_08]: do

[02:07:13] [SPEAKER_08]: More or less monthly fully edited and produced patreon exclusive podcast called the Zed head show where I bring different listeners on and talk

[02:07:20] [SPEAKER_08]: pop-culture

[02:07:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Topics and the one that was just released a couple of days ago was with Dina and Dodie and it was top 5 character crushes

[02:07:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Which was really fun a little vulnerable

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Honestly, but it was super fun

[02:07:33] [SPEAKER_08]: We gave each other license to have no shame about any of the characters that we picked what a great topic

[02:07:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I mean Dina came up with that I was like, oh they're gonna love that great topic and

[02:07:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Also just want to remind everyone

[02:07:47] [SPEAKER_08]: I will put a link in the show notes for where you can register to vote and I hope that all you guys hearing my

[02:07:52] [SPEAKER_08]: voice votes this year

[02:07:54] [SPEAKER_08]: All right. That is our show

[02:08:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Back to the fence