615: "This Sorrowful Life" (TWD S3E15 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hmm?

[00:00:01] Ah!

[00:00:02] Huh.

[00:00:08] You go on.

[00:00:11] Give him that girl.

[00:00:13] He ain't gonna kill her, you know.

[00:00:15] He's just gonna do things to her.

[00:00:19] Probably take out one of her eyes.

[00:00:22] Both of them most likely.

[00:00:25] You'd let that happen for a shot.

[00:00:32] You're cold as ice, Officer Friendly.

[00:00:37] You're gonna need wire.

[00:00:40] Not rope.

[00:00:43] Wire.

[00:00:44] Nothings you could chew through.

[00:00:50] You know something?

[00:00:53] You're right.

[00:00:55] I don't know why I do the things I do.

[00:00:58] Never did.

[00:01:02] I'm a damn mystery to me.

[00:01:36] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:38] I'm Jason.

[00:01:39] And I'm a damn mystery to me.

[00:01:41] I'm Lucy.

[00:01:43] You're pretty unpredictable, I'd say.

[00:01:45] And this is The Cast of Us, Episode 615.

[00:01:49] And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, Season 3, Episode 15, This Sorrowful Life.

[00:01:56] Yeah.

[00:01:56] It is.

[00:01:57] Yeah.

[00:01:57] It really is.

[00:01:58] It is a sad time.

[00:02:00] It's a stinker.

[00:02:01] I'm doing pretty good.

[00:02:02] Thanks to Peter for stepping in last week.

[00:02:05] I want to say I loved your episode.

[00:02:07] It was really fun to listen to.

[00:02:08] Oh, thank you.

[00:02:09] We had fun.

[00:02:10] It was fun to podcast together again.

[00:02:11] Yeah.

[00:02:12] And I had not really remembered that that episode was one that most people didn't like because

[00:02:20] Yeah.

[00:02:21] I liked it.

[00:02:22] I thought, I remember even thinking back then, oh, this is different.

[00:02:25] It's like stalker time, you know?

[00:02:27] It's kind of a horror movie thing, which you and Peter did talk about.

[00:02:31] And we don't usually see that exact setup in The Walking Dead.

[00:02:34] So I thought it was pretty thrilling.

[00:02:36] I liked it.

[00:02:37] Yeah.

[00:02:38] It was one of those ones I did feel it suffered from knowing what happens at the end.

[00:02:42] Yeah.

[00:02:43] It's sad.

[00:02:43] I re-listened to the pod and I was like, yeah, my whole problem with this episode really is

[00:02:48] it's all for nothing.

[00:02:50] Do you know what I mean?

[00:02:50] Like at the end, you're like, oh.

[00:02:52] Yeah.

[00:02:52] Yeah.

[00:02:53] I mean, it's kind of, that does feel like a horror movie a lot of the time too.

[00:02:57] They don't have happy endings, you know?

[00:03:00] Yeah, exactly.

[00:03:01] It's a real bummer.

[00:03:02] Yeah.

[00:03:03] Unless you don't like Andrea, then you're like, good.

[00:03:05] And you're like, fuck yeah, torture chamber.

[00:03:07] I remember back then, because, you know, in the comic, the governor famously tortures

[00:03:15] Michonne and it's horrible.

[00:03:17] Awful.

[00:03:18] And we see him getting the torture chair ready for the last few episodes because this is

[00:03:23] Walking Dead's drag everything out until the end period, which lasted pretty much the

[00:03:28] whole show.

[00:03:29] Which lasted till the end.

[00:03:31] But anyway, I remember it kind of as a joke.

[00:03:34] I was like, oh, there's the torture chair.

[00:03:36] Ha ha.

[00:03:37] Like that.

[00:03:37] And somebody wrote in really offended by that.

[00:03:40] Like Jason sounded really excited about the possible torture of a woman.

[00:03:45] And I felt so bad.

[00:03:46] And I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

[00:03:49] I was insensitive.

[00:03:50] And then that person wrote back and go, oh, it was no big deal.

[00:03:53] I can't believe you actually responded to me.

[00:03:54] You're like, well, thanks for making me feel like shit.

[00:03:56] I don't care.

[00:03:56] Jesus.

[00:03:58] And that person was Robert Kirkman.

[00:04:01] No one.

[00:04:01] It was Lucy Henney.

[00:04:02] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:04:02] It was me.

[00:04:04] Yay.

[00:04:04] It was Robert.

[00:04:05] I remember thinking about you saying that I remember being at a panel at A Walker Stalker

[00:04:11] or it was an interview we did, but it was Charlie Adler being interviewed.

[00:04:16] And it was the one thing he said.

[00:04:18] Or a dream you had.

[00:04:19] It was one of those.

[00:04:19] It was a dream.

[00:04:20] It was something.

[00:04:21] Maybe I made it up.

[00:04:21] I don't know.

[00:04:22] It could have happened.

[00:04:23] It might not have been Charlie Adler.

[00:04:24] It might have been my mailman.

[00:04:25] Who's to say?

[00:04:26] But he said that was the one part of the comic, one of the parts of the comic he found

[00:04:30] disturbing to write and to produce was the Michonne stuff.

[00:04:34] That and Carl's eye.

[00:04:36] Although he was like with Carl's eye, I had just had to do a lot of gnarly research

[00:04:40] into like medical stuff.

[00:04:42] He had to look at pictures of people for all that.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:47] And I remember him being like, oh, yeah, no, no thanks.

[00:04:51] Yeah.

[00:04:51] Robert, do we really have to do this?

[00:04:53] Yeah.

[00:04:53] Do we have to do this?

[00:04:54] This is bleak.

[00:04:55] Yeah.

[00:04:56] Not good.

[00:04:56] All right.

[00:04:57] Well, let's get into this one.

[00:04:58] Season three, episode 15, This Surroundful Life.

[00:05:00] Plot summary.

[00:05:01] Would you like to read the plot summary?

[00:05:03] Yes, I would.

[00:05:05] Rick decides to give Michonne to the governor against Herschel and Daryl's judgment.

[00:05:09] After enlisting Merle's help, Rick changes his mind, but Merle has already taken Michonne

[00:05:14] to fulfill the deal.

[00:05:15] Rick comes clean to the group and resigns leadership, delegating the major decisions

[00:05:19] to a vote.

[00:05:20] Merle decides to release Michonne and sabotages the governor's men.

[00:05:24] The governor kills Merle and leaves him to reanimate.

[00:05:27] Daryl discovers him and puts him down.

[00:05:29] That's such a workman-like description of such an emotional moment.

[00:05:35] I know.

[00:05:35] Hey Siri, what happens in this episode?

[00:05:38] It was really sad.

[00:05:39] No, I loved this episode.

[00:05:42] It was better than I remembered it.

[00:05:44] And also coming off the Daryl show, it feels so much more grounded and weighty.

[00:05:51] I was going to say that, if this had been our first one back after the Daryl show, wow,

[00:05:58] that would have been a contrast.

[00:05:59] Yeah, big contrast.

[00:06:00] I think this is hands down Norman Reedus' best performance in the show, is this episode.

[00:06:06] And he has good ones, he has other good ones.

[00:06:08] So that's not me saying he's crap the rest of the time, this is the only good one.

[00:06:12] But his performance in this episode throughout is stunning.

[00:06:15] Like it's really good.

[00:06:16] And it made me feel like, because I really did enjoy the Daryl show.

[00:06:21] It had a dip in there, but I enjoyed it.

[00:06:23] But man, now it made me feel like, oh man, the Daryl show is not as good as this.

[00:06:26] And I feel bad that Norman Reedus doesn't have as good a stuff to work with now as he did back in this.

[00:06:33] You know, it's still, it's a different kind of a thing, but no, I really enjoyed this one.

[00:06:37] I was interested to get into it with you, to be honest, because yeah, I have a lot of thoughts about that.

[00:06:41] And like, just this sweet spot of Daryl not being too cool for school yet.

[00:06:48] Like this spot where he can still be vulnerable.

[00:06:51] I've written at the end, and this is going to sound like the bitchiest thing.

[00:06:55] It's not, honestly, I like Norman Reedus and I like Daryl very much.

[00:06:58] I think that final scene with Rooker is the most acting Reedus has ever done in the show.

[00:07:03] And it's brilliant.

[00:07:05] Like where he finds Merle and he's devastated.

[00:07:08] It didn't even, it didn't even get ruined by the fact it's a popular meme and gif reaction, which is Daryl crying.

[00:07:14] And it's so powerful.

[00:07:16] And even the stuff before that, where he's trying to get Glenn to come around to Merle and this like childish desperation for his brother to fit in and to find a way for all to work.

[00:07:25] And Merle sort of realizing that's never going to happen before Daryl does.

[00:07:30] I just think Norman Reedus is brilliant in this episode, but I'm like, at what point?

[00:07:37] It seems like they then put him on this pedestal.

[00:07:40] The show does rather than his performance.

[00:07:42] The show puts him on this pedestal of being almost unflappable or unbreakable in a way that takes us out of it a bit.

[00:07:51] Whereas this is just so powerful seeing him break down like this.

[00:07:54] I'm wondering if when we come to season four episodes still, if we'll have a different perspective, because that's another sort of Daryl centered breakdown episode.

[00:08:04] But it really struck me because one of my major critiques of the Daryl show was there was an event that happened where someone passed away that I thought Daryl would have a very strong response to.

[00:08:16] And the performance was very muted.

[00:08:18] Wait, what was? In what?

[00:08:21] In the Daryl show.

[00:08:22] Can we say spoilers for the Daryl show?

[00:08:25] Yeah, I think.

[00:08:26] Yeah, if you guys haven't seen the Daryl show, you should.

[00:08:30] Because it's out in the UK, yeah?

[00:08:31] Yeah, you should.

[00:08:33] We're going to talk about it.

[00:08:34] Okay, don't listen to the next minute if you don't want to spoil.

[00:08:36] So when Isabel dies, I had a big critique that Daryl just doesn't seem that bothered about it.

[00:08:42] And at the time I was like, oh, maybe, you know, Daryl just doesn't react.

[00:08:46] It's not his way, blah, blah, blah.

[00:08:47] But then watching this, I'm like, hey!

[00:08:49] Well, in that episode, he just almost starts bawling when Carol shows up.

[00:08:53] So people are like, oh, he doesn't know.

[00:08:55] He's not ready to love yet and all this.

[00:08:58] And I'm like, eh.

[00:08:59] It would have been respectful to the character if he would have had some reaction to that.

[00:09:03] If I was going to weep my heart out, I'd weep over Isabel and not Merle.

[00:09:07] But here we are, you know?

[00:09:08] But that's glib because that's his brother.

[00:09:11] That's his life.

[00:09:12] That's his trauma.

[00:09:13] That's his family.

[00:09:14] Yeah.

[00:09:15] I mean, there is some truth to the fact that he hasn't known her that long yet, but it did

[00:09:20] feel just kind of weak in a way that didn't feel good, you know?

[00:09:25] Or you have to sort of rationalize why he wouldn't have that reaction when it would have

[00:09:29] just felt better if he had some fucking reaction.

[00:09:32] And I feel like in the back of my head, I've always been like, maybe like there are some

[00:09:36] actors that just don't sell it.

[00:09:37] Maybe there are some actors who just that's not the kind of acting they do.

[00:09:40] They're not the kind of actor who's going to do a big emotional breakdown.

[00:09:43] He sold the hell out of this scene at the end.

[00:09:46] It's devastating.

[00:09:47] Like it's absolutely devastating to watch.

[00:09:49] I just feel like give Redis more meaty stuff.

[00:09:53] Don't keep him as this cool guy.

[00:09:55] Like give him these kinds of things because he can deliver them.

[00:09:57] Yeah.

[00:09:58] I mean, Daryl, I don't know.

[00:10:00] I'd love to really be able to get inside Norman Reedus's head about Daryl because I have felt

[00:10:08] at times that, well, Daryl can be a bit of a caricature and that Norman Reedus maybe wants

[00:10:15] him to just come off really cool.

[00:10:18] And so that means that he is, like you said, unflappable and he talks like this and he's

[00:10:24] brooding.

[00:10:25] And, you know, it's more interesting to me when he can have more human moments here where we

[00:10:31] seem kind of fall apart a little bit and we can connect with that.

[00:10:34] Right.

[00:10:34] That emotion.

[00:10:35] And, but I think, I do think he has moments like that throughout the series though.

[00:10:40] Yeah.

[00:10:40] And like you said, when we get to still, that'll be an interesting one to look at.

[00:10:44] Yeah.

[00:10:44] And losing Carol briefly and being reunited.

[00:10:48] I remember that's a really powerful beat when they're reunited again.

[00:10:50] And I just, I, I felt very surprised watching the scene again, how raw it was and how emotional.

[00:10:58] Um, and I just, I just thought it was great.

[00:11:00] I thought it was really good, but it made me curious about what's to come in the rewatch

[00:11:05] and it made me maybe reevaluate some elements of the Daryl Dixon show where I'm like, maybe

[00:11:10] we could have dug a bit deeper or we could have gone a bit further with his emotional kind

[00:11:14] of range in that role.

[00:11:16] Yeah.

[00:11:16] But I mean, I just thinking about it, not to get too much into the Daryl show, but even

[00:11:21] in that last episode, I, I felt some vulnerability there in his reactions towards, uh, Laurent,

[00:11:29] you know?

[00:11:30] Laurent.

[00:11:30] So I don't know.

[00:11:31] I think I've, this whole rewatch and the Daryl show has made me reappraise the character

[00:11:38] of Daryl and like him more than I did before.

[00:11:40] Plus the way that Angela King sort of brought it back for me when she was showrunner made

[00:11:46] him more of a character that I could connect with.

[00:11:49] Yeah.

[00:11:50] I mean, one of the things the show always, one of the very good calls the show made when

[00:11:55] Andrew Lincoln left was not to promote Daryl to being the main character, to have the ensemble

[00:12:01] step up.

[00:12:01] And although Daryl took on more, I mean, literally childcare of Rick's children, they didn't, it

[00:12:09] didn't become the Daryl show at that point.

[00:12:11] And I think that was very well played.

[00:12:14] Yeah.

[00:12:14] Um, and in a point where the show could have really gone in a different direction.

[00:12:18] I think that was a good decision, but.

[00:12:20] We had Negan there too.

[00:12:21] He was a big presence.

[00:12:22] Yeah.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:24] Um, yeah.

[00:12:26] So I just, I think my, my first point really is just that Daryl is, he's just in a good

[00:12:31] place in this episode in terms of the character as he is evolving.

[00:12:35] Cause he's being a voice of reason to Rick.

[00:12:37] He's saying like, that's not us.

[00:12:39] That's not who we are.

[00:12:40] Don't do that with Michonne, but he's also trying to get Glenn to be softer on Merle to

[00:12:47] kind of make him understand, to advocate and be a diplomat for Merle that he will be part

[00:12:51] of the community and it will be okay.

[00:12:54] Um, and then we have Dick, Daryl, Dick, sorry, Daryl and Rick.

[00:12:59] That's their couple name.

[00:13:01] Dick.

[00:13:02] I ship Dick.

[00:13:05] Um, and Daryl saying to Rick, you're a family too, and sending Rick back to the prison so

[00:13:09] that he can go on tracking his brother.

[00:13:11] It's just, it's a very classic, but good Daryl episode.

[00:13:15] And I feel like this is a real high point for the character, not in terms of his personal

[00:13:20] happiness.

[00:13:21] Cause obviously it's a stone cold bummer for him, but in terms of him becoming fully ledged

[00:13:26] and fully someone that we, we come to love and respect as the show goes on.

[00:13:30] And he's very much now integrated into the group.

[00:13:34] That's kind of been his arc is feeling like the outsider, but coming to really love Carol

[00:13:40] as you know, as a friend, love Carol and, and love and respect Rick.

[00:13:44] And so in this episode, he's like, whatever the man says goes, you know, about Rick and,

[00:13:49] and Merle's mocking him for that.

[00:13:51] So, um, I think that's part of the contrast with Merle as Carol points out, you know, Daryl's

[00:13:56] here for us.

[00:13:57] Are you, what side are you on?

[00:13:58] So Daryl's really, um, like you said, he's trying to convince Rick, maybe this isn't how

[00:14:04] we do it, but ultimately he's gonna go with what Rick says.

[00:14:09] He's got so much respect for Rick.

[00:14:12] And I think in a way that's what enables Merle to do what he does in this episode is cause

[00:14:19] he knows that Daryl will not be on his own and that he actually fits in somewhere.

[00:14:22] And I don't think that's something like Merle goes smiling off into the sunset.

[00:14:26] Like my brother is happy.

[00:14:27] So I'm happy time to die.

[00:14:29] It's more, he says something to Michonne, like, I want to be with my brother and my brother

[00:14:33] wants to be at the prison.

[00:14:34] So I have to protect the prison.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:36] But I think knowing that Daryl is such a part of that group in a way that Merle can't be

[00:14:41] means that Merle is able to, to leave and not come back.

[00:14:46] And to, so you think Merle was on a kamikaze mission that he knew he was going to die?

[00:14:52] I think it turns into one.

[00:14:53] I think as soon as he releases, the moment he lets Michonne go, it's a kamikaze.

[00:14:58] Wow.

[00:14:58] That's yeah.

[00:14:59] Interesting.

[00:15:00] That's interesting.

[00:15:00] I mean, he gets steaming.

[00:15:02] He like drinks a bottle of bourbon.

[00:15:03] I'm like, yeah.

[00:15:04] Yeah.

[00:15:05] I mean, yeah, I thought he definitely decided I'm going to kill the governor, but did he

[00:15:10] decide?

[00:15:11] And that means I'm going to die.

[00:15:13] I think there is, um, a chance that that's true, that he just thought I can't, there's

[00:15:21] no place for me in this world or something like that, you know?

[00:15:25] And I think as well, Merle knows the governor well enough to know that there's a very good

[00:15:29] chance he's not coming back out of a fight with the governor.

[00:15:31] He really didn't make it very far either.

[00:15:33] No.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:34] I remembered that fight being more prolonged.

[00:15:36] I know.

[00:15:36] I could sort of look down to take a note and looked up and I'm like, oh, oh, oh.

[00:15:40] He's dead now.

[00:15:41] He's dead now.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:43] Well, my first point is Merle's redemption.

[00:15:45] So I'm just going to drive, dive right into that.

[00:15:47] Um, as we know that one of the big, maybe the biggest theme of the walking dead is about

[00:15:52] people doing dark things in the zombie apocalypse to protect the people they care about and whether

[00:15:58] they can come back for those, from those things or whether they can be redeemed.

[00:16:02] And so with most of our main characters, they start out as good people, but then they end

[00:16:09] up doing dark things and then they wrestle with whether they can come back with it.

[00:16:14] Merle's different because he was a guy from what we saw who did bad things.

[00:16:21] He, we knew he found out he dealt drugs before the ZA that he, he was a thief and he was just

[00:16:29] an asshole.

[00:16:30] Really threatened people.

[00:16:31] He was a racist.

[00:16:32] He was out for himself, but his maybe one redeeming quality that we can see is that he

[00:16:38] loves his brother and, um, he bullies him, but he, you could tell he loves him and he, on some

[00:16:46] level cares about him, you know?

[00:16:48] So there's this ambiguity built in with him that isn't there with the others, which makes

[00:16:53] kind of exploring this territory of, can you come back?

[00:16:58] Can you change?

[00:16:59] Can you redeem yourself?

[00:17:00] Kind of unique and interesting to explore for this one episode is great final episode

[00:17:05] for, for the character.

[00:17:07] Um, I love that we're reminded right away.

[00:17:09] What kind of a guy Merle is because Rick sees him trying to find drugs in this mattress.

[00:17:14] Um, 10 out of 10 Merle.

[00:17:16] Yeah.

[00:17:17] That's what I want.

[00:17:18] Like, I don't want him watered down.

[00:17:20] I want to see him being his himself, you know?

[00:17:23] Full fat Merle.

[00:17:24] Right, right.

[00:17:25] Exactly.

[00:17:26] And when Rick says, do you even know why you do the things you do, the choices you make?

[00:17:30] And he's like, you know something?

[00:17:31] You're right.

[00:17:31] I don't know why I do the things I do.

[00:17:33] Never did.

[00:17:34] I'm a damn mystery to me.

[00:17:35] That's such a great line.

[00:17:36] Great.

[00:17:37] And it's delivered.

[00:17:38] Rooker gives a very good performance in this episode.

[00:17:41] He does.

[00:17:41] Very good.

[00:17:42] He delivers that line very well.

[00:17:43] Cause you kind of believe, he's sort of being sassy, but also truthful.

[00:17:49] Yeah.

[00:17:49] He's like, yeah.

[00:17:50] I don't know.

[00:17:51] Like, yeah, that's a good question.

[00:17:53] But, uh, it, that sets it up for us where we're not sure if Merle can find any redemption and neither is he, you know, he's a big question mark.

[00:18:02] He doesn't even know if he has it in him.

[00:18:04] And that leaves a lot of possibility for what could happen with his character.

[00:18:09] And, and, um, I think in that space of possibility with him, there's this exploration of the idea that how we feel about ourselves can shape who we are and what we do, how he feels about himself and how other people treat us or see us can also shape how we feel about ourselves and influence what we do.

[00:18:33] And that can go either way.

[00:18:35] You know, everybody just thinks of Merle as the asshole and he's like, fine, that's who I'll be, you know?

[00:18:41] And he, it's sort of, um, chicken and egg thing.

[00:18:44] Like he's done some assholish things.

[00:18:46] So people see him that way in that room.

[00:18:48] It all reinforces each other, but sometimes a kind word from someone can make a difference.

[00:18:53] And, um, that's, I, I'm going to get into that later with Michonne, but it reminded me, I hope Dodie, I hope you're listening to this.

[00:19:02] Cause Dodie and I had a, um, listener chit chat for our patron patron thing and talked a lot about just how, if you go through life sort of trying to lift people up or point out what's good about them, it can, it can sometimes influence how they are, you know?

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:22] And I think that's what this is all about with Merle, like his exchange with Carol, where she's like, uh, he, I love how he's like, you're different than you were before.

[00:19:31] You know, you were a little mouse running around and now you, you know, you seem different.

[00:19:36] And, or he goes, you don't seem scared of nothing anymore.

[00:19:38] I'm not, huh?

[00:19:40] You're a late bloomer.

[00:19:41] And she goes, maybe you are too.

[00:19:43] I just love that moment, you know?

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] Just a little.

[00:19:47] It's a really great moment.

[00:19:48] Get him thinking for a second.

[00:19:50] He didn't say, nah.

[00:19:52] No.

[00:19:53] And a woman like Carol, I don't know.

[00:19:56] There's a reason she and Daryl click so well.

[00:20:00] And they've all had, they've all been dealt a really fucking rough hand in life.

[00:20:03] The sorrowful life.

[00:20:04] In fact, yeah, great, great line later in this episode.

[00:20:07] Play the hand you're dealt.

[00:20:08] I only got one.

[00:20:10] Excellent line.

[00:20:11] Excellent line.

[00:20:13] But there is this thing of like, you know, Rick's clearly from a nice, well-to-do, upper working, lower middle class.

[00:20:19] You know, the Greens are a very good, wholesome family.

[00:20:23] You don't get the sense that Carol, Daryl and Merle come from those kinds of families.

[00:20:27] No.

[00:20:28] And to see someone who's been in a similar situation raise themselves out of it or to make themselves better.

[00:20:34] I think is confronting, but also hopeful.

[00:20:36] It is.

[00:20:37] And I think especially with Merle, you get the sense that he's had such a fucking hard life and that he's had so much pain and that he's just got his hackles up all the time because of where he's come from.

[00:20:52] And so he can, you know, that happens to a lot of us where our own worst enemy is ourself.

[00:20:59] And you sort of are still fighting battles from a long time ago, bringing them into situations where they don't need to be.

[00:21:07] And that can cause problems for yourself.

[00:21:09] But that's why I think what Merle really needs is like long-term intensive psychotherapy.

[00:21:16] You know, alternative universe in that Walking Dead game where instead of dying, he just goes to therapy for like 10 episodes.

[00:21:25] You're like, yeah.

[00:21:25] And then he becomes like Howard Stern, who now is this total gentleman, you know, or used to be a total prick.

[00:21:31] Can you imagine Merle and NPR?

[00:21:33] Like, yeah.

[00:21:34] Like, oh, you wouldn't believe the life I've had everybody.

[00:21:37] I love that.

[00:21:38] I think the other thing about Merle that I always think about is the burden of being an older child in an abusive household, which is often that you, there is no doubt that Merle is an asshole to Daryl.

[00:21:50] That he definitely bullies.

[00:21:52] I'm not going to quite say abusive because the abuse in that house seems to have been coming from their father more.

[00:21:57] Yeah.

[00:21:57] But there is no doubt in my mind that, you know, to Daryl as a young child, Merle was a horrible bully.

[00:22:04] But we learn through this season that Merle was protecting Daryl from a lot of the brunt of his father's anger.

[00:22:11] Like when he sees Daryl's scars, he's horrified because he thought that wasn't happening to him or wouldn't happen to him.

[00:22:17] And that can fuck you up as well.

[00:22:20] Yeah.

[00:22:20] You know, being the sponge for all that trauma and trying to protect someone else from it.

[00:22:25] That's a difficult load.

[00:22:26] That's a difficult thing to bear.

[00:22:28] And then he left and then he felt guilty, I think, and decided to protect him after that more again later.

[00:22:37] Now, as far as how people see Merle, Glenn just sees him as a bad person and doesn't want to forgive him.

[00:22:44] And of course, I don't blame him.

[00:22:46] He handed Maggie over to the governor to be sexually abused.

[00:22:53] And later when Merle said to Daryl, y'all look at me like I'm the devil.

[00:22:57] Now y'all want to do the same thing I did because he's talking about, OK, I hand.

[00:23:02] Yeah, I handed Maggie over to the governor.

[00:23:04] But now you're going to hand Michonne over to the governor.

[00:23:07] And I'm like, yeah, he's got a good point there.

[00:23:08] And I love that because I just think sometimes we don't give people the same break as we do others because of their vibe or their personality.

[00:23:17] Right.

[00:23:17] We don't give Merle a break because he comes off like an asshole.

[00:23:20] Where with Rick, he's always he's the leader.

[00:23:23] So we give him more of a break.

[00:23:25] But I wish we could just look at things more objectively with people sometimes.

[00:23:29] That comes up a lot in this episode, I think, with relativity, relativism of what you would do to protect the people you know and love.

[00:23:37] Like when Herschel says, girls, what I wouldn't do to keep you safe.

[00:23:40] Yeah, it's it's true.

[00:23:43] Like objectivity goes out the window when it's about that.

[00:23:47] And so just sort of how we're shaped by how others see us and all of that and how we choose who we are by what we do.

[00:23:57] And Merle is looking to change how people see him.

[00:24:00] I think he like, as you said, he says, I want to I want to be with my brother.

[00:24:05] My brother wants to be in the prison.

[00:24:06] This little trip, maybe it'll keep that place standing.

[00:24:09] If I pull it off, maybe all is forgiven.

[00:24:11] I don't know if he means I guess he means all is forgiven with everybody else so that he'll because Daryl's already forgiven him.

[00:24:19] So he's looking for redemption, absolution, forgiveness.

[00:24:23] But the problem is that he's doing a bad thing here, giving Michonne over.

[00:24:30] And he of all people knows how bad like he says to Rick, you know, he will torture her.

[00:24:35] Yeah, he will do this.

[00:24:36] He's going to scoop her eyeballs out.

[00:24:38] Yeah.

[00:24:39] And so Michonne then gets him thinking about actually being a better person.

[00:24:46] When Merle tells her he's killed 16 men and then she digs a little deeper and finds out that that was all after he met the governor.

[00:24:54] And so she's kind of showing him that he's become a worse version of himself because of the governor.

[00:24:59] But she says, you know, we can go back.

[00:25:01] Both of us.

[00:25:02] We can just go back.

[00:25:03] She means, I think, literally turn the car around and go back to the prison, but also that Merle can go back to being the person he was before he did those bad things.

[00:25:11] And after she says that, that's when he lets her go.

[00:25:14] And he goes, I can't go back.

[00:25:16] Don't you understand that?

[00:25:17] I can't.

[00:25:17] She says, why?

[00:25:18] And he doesn't answer.

[00:25:20] He cuts her loose.

[00:25:21] And that's a powerful moment.

[00:25:22] And says, you go back with them.

[00:25:24] Get ready for what's next.

[00:25:25] I got something I got to do on my own.

[00:25:27] But I think he knew that the governor would torture her.

[00:25:31] And so in the end, he decides to step up and do the honorable thing of letting her go, sparing her from the governor and instead going on this probable suicide mission.

[00:25:44] And I think he can't go back to the prison because he does want to go back to being a better person.

[00:25:52] He wants that absolution, that forgiveness.

[00:25:54] And the only way he can get that is to go on by himself and try to do the right thing and kill the governor, the one who sort of pushed him to become an even worse version of himself than the Merle that we first met, you know, who hadn't killed anyone yet.

[00:26:07] But now he's killed 16 guys.

[00:26:09] So he's decided to either be a full on hero or or die trying.

[00:26:14] Yeah.

[00:26:16] And and that's probably the best thing we've ever seen him do.

[00:26:20] And then, yeah, when they fight, it's like no contest.

[00:26:22] The governor bites a couple of his fingers off.

[00:26:25] Merle says, I ain't gonna beg.

[00:26:27] And no, I ain't gonna beg.

[00:26:30] But he died.

[00:26:31] It was tragic.

[00:26:32] But but he died being his best self, I guess, with dignity, you know, and it was it was.

[00:26:42] I hope that everyone appreciates what he tried to do.

[00:26:47] I was thinking if he succeeded in killing the governor and and lived through it, would he have been a changed man like Carol is a changed woman?

[00:27:27] And we can't know.

[00:27:29] He's been a changed man like Carol is a changed man.

[00:27:29] And that being a mystery to himself.

[00:27:31] Yeah.

[00:27:31] That lends to that in a huge way.

[00:27:33] So maybe this, you know, because there aren't there isn't an opportunity to get that therapy.

[00:27:40] Maybe this was the best thing for him.

[00:27:43] I don't know.

[00:27:43] Maybe that's too harsh to say.

[00:27:45] I don't know.

[00:27:47] It's hard to imagine him coexisting with everyone at the prison.

[00:27:50] Yeah.

[00:27:51] It allowed Daryl to have a better life, I guess.

[00:27:55] Yeah.

[00:27:55] And if he had just sort of stayed around and become a watered down goody goody version of himself, I don't think that would have been a very good story.

[00:28:05] Maybe.

[00:28:06] I don't know.

[00:28:07] I don't know.

[00:28:07] It's a good thing.

[00:28:07] It's what happened with that.

[00:28:08] I mean, that's what I was going to say.

[00:28:10] It's a good thing.

[00:28:10] They didn't try that with any other villains.

[00:28:12] Oh, wait.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:14] That's a good point.

[00:28:15] They didn't.

[00:28:16] Oh, boy.

[00:28:16] Didn't you know that Merle used to coach Little League?

[00:28:18] I'm like, oh, good.

[00:28:20] Okay.

[00:28:22] Yeah.

[00:28:23] No, I agree.

[00:28:24] I think both Michael Rooker and Norman Reedus give really good performances in this episode.

[00:28:30] Everyone in this episode is on their absolute top game.

[00:28:32] Yes.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:34] I think Rooker is one of the best character Zeds that we see.

[00:28:38] They barely give him any zombie makeup.

[00:28:42] They keep him very grounded.

[00:28:46] But it's just that moment where he sees Daryl and the eating noises are just amplified.

[00:28:50] And it's just, it's one of the most powerful turns, I think, that we see after Sophia is to see a member of the cast that way.

[00:28:58] Yeah.

[00:28:59] And they did that so little.

[00:29:00] And I've kind of criticized that because it's one of my favorite things about zombies is that someone that you cared about suddenly is this monster and it's so tragic.

[00:29:09] But maybe on the other hand or on the bright side, it is a good thing that they did it so little where they had someone that we cared about turn into a zombie.

[00:29:16] Because when they do it, it's very powerful.

[00:29:19] You know?

[00:29:20] It's a nasty, nasty put down as well.

[00:29:23] Like Daryl really goes for it.

[00:29:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:24] He takes out a lot of rage on him, which I'd forgotten about and is very powerful.

[00:29:28] Because that's clearly years of abuse and torment coming out there.

[00:29:32] Yeah.

[00:29:32] And it's, I think, probably intentional parallel to how Carol was when she had to kill Zobie Ed.

[00:29:42] Yeah.

[00:29:42] Same thing.

[00:29:43] It's rare.

[00:29:44] Just mixed emotions, but a lot of just rage coming out, you know?

[00:29:48] A very manifesting way of dealing with your trauma, killing it literally.

[00:29:53] Absolutely.

[00:29:55] I thought the scene with him and Rick is very powerful.

[00:29:58] Rick almost coming to try and get someone's blessing because Herschel and Daryl aren't giving it.

[00:30:03] And Rick knows in his heart that it's not good.

[00:30:05] So he sort of turns to Merle in the way that he might have turned to Shane at one point to get reassurance about a brutal decision.

[00:30:13] And Merle tells it to him like it is about the torture and advises him to get wire, not rope, so that she can't bite her way out.

[00:30:21] Which is just...

[00:30:23] It's just really harrowing.

[00:30:24] And then there's this scene with Merle and Daryl in...

[00:30:26] Now, Peter and I had a very long debate about what room it was they were in.

[00:30:30] Peter thought it was a mail room.

[00:30:32] I thought it was a generator room, but I don't think it's the generator room because that's where Laurie died.

[00:30:36] So whatever room they're in, Daryl and Merle have this conversation about Rick not having the stomach to do what needs to be done.

[00:30:44] Merle asks that iconic line,

[00:30:46] Do you even possess a pair of balls, little brother?

[00:30:49] Which I'd love on t-shirts.

[00:30:52] And Merle points out this idea of needing someone like him to do their dirty work.

[00:30:56] And while that's...

[00:30:58] He wears it as a badge of pride,

[00:31:00] it's actually a very sad thing to say that he thinks so little of himself.

[00:31:04] That he's kind of willing to be treated like that and used in that way or feels that he's only worth that.

[00:31:10] So we then see Merle pick up this telephone and we're like,

[00:31:14] What's going on there?

[00:31:16] Obviously, that's what he's going to use to knock Michonne out.

[00:31:19] So this is like a weird observation.

[00:31:21] I really enjoy Merle and Michonne together because there is this like playfulness to their interactions.

[00:31:29] I don't know how to describe it.

[00:31:31] They just have really good chemistry.

[00:31:33] It's almost like she's teasing him.

[00:31:36] Yeah.

[00:31:37] A lot of the time.

[00:31:39] I can't put my finger on it.

[00:31:40] She's chill.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:41] She's like not worried.

[00:31:42] She's just like,

[00:31:43] Yeah.

[00:31:43] Yeah, this is an interesting situation.

[00:31:46] I think I have control of it.

[00:31:49] Let's see what I can do here.

[00:31:50] Kind of vibe.

[00:31:52] But what Danai Gurira does that's so good is she plays that without playing it like this guy's a fucking dumbass.

[00:31:59] No.

[00:32:00] She plays it as curiosity rather than undermining him or looking down on him.

[00:32:06] And it's just such a cool performance.

[00:32:08] Well, I just think that especially early Michonne,

[00:32:12] she has such a great snap judge of character.

[00:32:17] She knows the governor right away is a bad guy, right?

[00:32:21] And when she meets Rick in his group, she's like,

[00:32:23] Nope, these are good people.

[00:32:24] And I think right now with Merle,

[00:32:27] she's looking at him going,

[00:32:29] He has the capacity to do the right thing here.

[00:32:32] And I'm going to call that out of him.

[00:32:34] And it's kind of similar to how she was with Rick in The Ones Who Live,

[00:32:39] where Rick's gone off the deep end here,

[00:32:43] but I'm going to call him to be his better self.

[00:32:46] And the whole interaction,

[00:32:49] the whole arc here with Michonne and Merle is her nudging him,

[00:32:54] jabbing at him a little bit to call him into being his better self.

[00:32:58] And she totally succeeds.

[00:32:59] He lets her go.

[00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:01] It's a shame they cut the sex scene.

[00:33:03] I'm joking.

[00:33:05] I'm obviously joking.

[00:33:07] There is one point where I did cringe a little bit,

[00:33:10] which is the optics of this man who we've known to be openly racist,

[00:33:15] kind of leading a woman on a rope,

[00:33:18] leading a woman of color on a rope is obviously not an amazing thing to see

[00:33:23] because there's a lot of connotations there with ownership and slavery and

[00:33:27] whatnot.

[00:33:27] But I don't think that there is any doubt.

[00:33:31] Well, he's being an asshole.

[00:33:32] He's being an asshole.

[00:33:34] Yeah.

[00:33:34] He's not exactly like,

[00:33:34] they're like,

[00:33:35] I'm getting ready to hand her over to be tortured.

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:37] It's like,

[00:33:38] yeah,

[00:33:38] no,

[00:33:38] this is a low point.

[00:33:40] But yeah,

[00:33:41] I think there's something so playful in the way that Danai Gurira plays.

[00:33:44] And you see a taste of it.

[00:33:45] A couple of episodes ago,

[00:33:46] we spoke about that scene where he says something like,

[00:33:48] must've been your charisma or something.

[00:33:50] I just,

[00:33:51] I could watch the two of them.

[00:33:52] I don't know.

[00:33:53] It's not two characters you think would play well together,

[00:33:56] but they do.

[00:33:57] Yeah.

[00:33:57] They really do.

[00:33:58] And it's interesting that we've also recognized that Michonne and Rick have

[00:34:03] chemistry.

[00:34:04] And I think it's just that Danai Gurira is good at finding that with her acting

[00:34:09] partners.

[00:34:09] She's so good.

[00:34:10] She's so good at it.

[00:34:12] And I just think the whole interactions between them in this episode and even

[00:34:17] that moment where she really needs him at the motel and she's shouting like,

[00:34:20] and he's like fucking around with a car.

[00:34:22] Oh,

[00:34:23] it's just so,

[00:34:25] that's tense,

[00:34:26] man.

[00:34:26] Imagine being tied up and unable to do,

[00:34:28] to protect yourself.

[00:34:30] And obviously Michonne still kicks ass.

[00:34:32] And we see that Merle actually uses the katana,

[00:34:34] which I'd forgotten about.

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] That was interesting.

[00:34:36] And I did vaguely remember that that katana is actually what kills Herschel in

[00:34:40] the end,

[00:34:41] which is.

[00:34:41] Oh yeah.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:42] That,

[00:34:43] so that moment with the zombies was the only time Michonne really looked scared,

[00:34:48] you know?

[00:34:49] Yeah.

[00:34:50] Cause it was terrifying.

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:51] But other than that with Merle,

[00:34:53] she,

[00:34:54] she seemed to have this vibe,

[00:34:57] like she had a handle on it.

[00:34:59] And I forgot that she bumps into Daryl on her way back.

[00:35:02] And Daryl says,

[00:35:02] don't let anyone come after me.

[00:35:04] Um,

[00:35:05] and I think,

[00:35:06] I think Michonne,

[00:35:07] my sense,

[00:35:09] who knows?

[00:35:09] I could be wrong,

[00:35:10] but I feel like she could have gotten out of that with Merle by force,

[00:35:15] you know,

[00:35:16] at any time.

[00:35:16] I think she could have.

[00:35:18] There's a chance.

[00:35:18] She's such a bad ass that you feel like she could have run away.

[00:35:21] At least that one point he points out,

[00:35:23] Oh,

[00:35:23] I thought you would have run away,

[00:35:24] but,

[00:35:25] um,

[00:35:25] she probably,

[00:35:27] I wouldn't be surprised if she could have just killed him,

[00:35:30] you know,

[00:35:30] but she's just choosing to take this route where let me talk to him.

[00:35:34] Instead.

[00:35:35] Well,

[00:35:35] she's one of the smartest,

[00:35:36] most high status characters taking the time with a less,

[00:35:41] I would say a less smart and much lower status character to,

[00:35:44] to talk.

[00:35:45] And it's just,

[00:35:45] yeah,

[00:35:46] it's a really,

[00:35:47] um,

[00:35:48] what you said about it really paralleling that journey with Rick and the

[00:35:51] ones who live has kind of blown my mind a bit because you're right.

[00:35:54] It's,

[00:35:54] it's kind of Michonne's way of operating in a way is to kind of let

[00:35:59] when she thinks the person's worth it.

[00:36:01] Like with the governor,

[00:36:02] she wouldn't bother.

[00:36:03] God,

[00:36:03] no,

[00:36:03] she knows he's a psychopath.

[00:36:05] There's no redemptive.

[00:36:06] Um,

[00:36:07] we're done here.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:10] But then it made me remember because she's such a good judge of character

[00:36:14] here.

[00:36:14] And that may remember a storyline with her friend,

[00:36:17] Jocelyn who comes.

[00:36:19] Oh my God.

[00:36:20] Jocelyn.

[00:36:21] And she invites her into Alexandria and I forget the details,

[00:36:25] but it ends up that Jocelyn's a psycho with a bunch of killer children and

[00:36:29] child army,

[00:36:31] Daryl and Michonne out and end up scarring them.

[00:36:35] And she kills Jocelyn and it has to kill all those kids.

[00:36:37] And after that,

[00:36:38] she decides not to let any strangers into Alexandria anymore.

[00:36:42] And that leads to,

[00:36:44] um,

[00:36:44] discord between Alexandria and the other,

[00:36:46] uh,

[00:36:47] communities because Michonne is just very closed off.

[00:36:50] And I mean,

[00:36:51] maybe that's because she's like,

[00:36:52] man,

[00:36:52] I thought I was a good judge of character,

[00:36:53] but I just don't know anymore.

[00:36:54] I can't trust myself.

[00:36:55] So I just have to block everyone out.

[00:36:58] That's she stands amongst the bloodied corpses of all the toddlers.

[00:37:01] She's like,

[00:37:01] you know,

[00:37:01] I thought I was a really good judge of character,

[00:37:03] but something is telling me.

[00:37:05] Here we are.

[00:37:05] Yeah.

[00:37:05] I don't know.

[00:37:06] Here we are.

[00:37:07] Doesn't seem great.

[00:37:08] This doesn't seem amazing.

[00:37:11] She's like,

[00:37:11] Daryl,

[00:37:12] do you ever have one of those days where you're like,

[00:37:13] what am I doing with my life?

[00:37:14] Questioning things here.

[00:37:17] Ugh.

[00:37:18] That's horrible.

[00:37:19] I wish they never had that storyline.

[00:37:20] I don't know.

[00:37:21] That storyline was dumb.

[00:37:23] Oh my God.

[00:37:25] Oh,

[00:37:26] we want to give you like a cool scar with a backstory.

[00:37:29] And then the backstory is going to be,

[00:37:31] and it's like,

[00:37:31] no,

[00:37:31] the backstory is terrible.

[00:37:33] yeah.

[00:37:34] I'd rather she just like accidentally scrape herself against a tree or

[00:37:37] something.

[00:37:38] Yeah.

[00:37:38] She's like,

[00:37:38] funny story.

[00:37:39] I fell on a cattle brand.

[00:37:41] Um,

[00:37:43] but yeah,

[00:37:44] everything.

[00:37:45] Yeah.

[00:37:46] We fell.

[00:37:46] And then Daryl tried to save me.

[00:37:48] And he fell on it as well.

[00:37:49] What do you know?

[00:37:51] Um,

[00:37:52] that,

[00:37:52] that final kind of violent shoot,

[00:37:54] out at the,

[00:37:55] the grain store is,

[00:37:57] is great.

[00:37:57] There's lots happens.

[00:37:59] Um,

[00:37:59] Merle takes a good few men down,

[00:38:01] including Tyrese and Sasha's friend.

[00:38:04] Uh,

[00:38:04] is it Ben the kid?

[00:38:06] Uh,

[00:38:07] yeah.

[00:38:07] Ben and Alan,

[00:38:08] right?

[00:38:08] I think that's right.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:09] I think Ben is taken down by Merle.

[00:38:11] He's shot in the shoulder,

[00:38:13] which is going to have some repercussions for everyone's favorite character,

[00:38:16] Alan.

[00:38:17] And,

[00:38:18] uh,

[00:38:18] yeah,

[00:38:19] it,

[00:38:19] it all ends.

[00:38:20] I ain't going to beg.

[00:38:21] I ain't begging you.

[00:38:22] And then,

[00:38:23] yeah,

[00:38:23] that final silence scene where Daryl comes and we get the meme in the wild of Daryl crying.

[00:38:28] Just a horrible,

[00:38:30] horrible situation,

[00:38:31] but wonderfully acted and super,

[00:38:34] super powerful.

[00:38:35] Um,

[00:38:36] something I don't feel I appreciated enough in the first run of the show.

[00:38:39] And I do now.

[00:38:39] Yeah.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:42] Me too.

[00:38:42] Especially like seeing Michael Rooker go on to do guardians of the galaxy and just also having a chance to interview him and get into,

[00:38:55] um,

[00:38:55] other big roles that he's had.

[00:38:58] I think I appreciate his performance more in,

[00:39:01] in this.

[00:39:04] Okay.

[00:39:04] Let's see.

[00:39:05] Uh,

[00:39:06] I would talk about Rick a little bit.

[00:39:08] So,

[00:39:09] um,

[00:39:10] Rick,

[00:39:10] Rick's back to fretting about his decision making again.

[00:39:14] Um,

[00:39:15] and I had forgotten that he totally did decide to hand over Michonne.

[00:39:19] You know,

[00:39:20] I'm saying over the last couple episodes,

[00:39:23] what,

[00:39:23] what does he,

[00:39:24] what does he do there?

[00:39:25] But he does.

[00:39:26] He's like,

[00:39:26] we're doing this.

[00:39:28] We,

[00:39:28] we will avoid a fight.

[00:39:29] No one else dies.

[00:39:30] Um,

[00:39:31] I think it's silly that a couple episodes ago,

[00:39:35] Rick,

[00:39:35] right after he got back from his negotiations with the governor,

[00:39:38] he told everyone,

[00:39:40] the governor wants to kill us and that's what he's going to do.

[00:39:42] And we're going to have to fight.

[00:39:43] And it seemed like,

[00:39:45] yeah,

[00:39:45] that's the truth.

[00:39:46] You know,

[00:39:47] that the governor is not going to honor your agreement.

[00:39:49] And yet still,

[00:39:50] he goes ahead and plans to do something as serious as sacrificing Michonne on the off chance that the governor will leave them alone.

[00:39:56] That seems stupid.

[00:39:58] And to make matters worse,

[00:39:59] he's choosing that option over just finding somewhere else to live.

[00:40:02] Like,

[00:40:02] is Michonne's life less important than staying at this prison?

[00:40:06] So.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:07] It's one of those plot things that when you really think about it,

[00:40:10] it's like,

[00:40:11] no dude.

[00:40:12] I'm also like,

[00:40:13] I can't believe Michonne didn't bring this up at a later date.

[00:40:16] Like,

[00:40:16] dude.

[00:40:17] Well,

[00:40:17] that's what I'm curious about.

[00:40:19] So,

[00:40:19] well,

[00:40:19] let me go on here.

[00:40:20] So another sign that this might not be Rick's best decision is he doesn't even want to handle it himself.

[00:40:24] He wants Merle to do the dirty work.

[00:40:27] So he's like offloading the guilt of,

[00:40:29] yeah,

[00:40:29] this is so shitty.

[00:40:30] Let's get Merle.

[00:40:31] He's the one that I want to have to think about it,

[00:40:34] you know?

[00:40:34] And then Merle,

[00:40:35] like you said,

[00:40:36] tells him,

[00:40:37] you know,

[00:40:37] the governor is going to torture her basically.

[00:40:40] And I,

[00:40:40] I think,

[00:40:41] um,

[00:40:41] I was sort of like,

[00:40:42] why is Merle telling him this?

[00:40:44] He,

[00:40:45] he's just,

[00:40:46] I think he's just sort of like,

[00:40:47] really?

[00:40:47] Rick's going to do this.

[00:40:48] Cause I don't really believe he's going to do it.

[00:40:50] He says,

[00:40:50] Rick doesn't have the spine for it.

[00:40:52] And later Merle said to Michonne,

[00:40:54] he was the guy that came back for me on that rooftop.

[00:40:57] Um,

[00:40:57] so he thinks that Rick is soft,

[00:41:01] but,

[00:41:01] as far as Michonne,

[00:41:02] I mean,

[00:41:03] Michonne knows that Rick,

[00:41:06] uh,

[00:41:07] changed his mind.

[00:41:08] Did this?

[00:41:09] No,

[00:41:10] I mean,

[00:41:10] she doesn't know yet.

[00:41:11] Yeah.

[00:41:12] Cause when she's walking with Merle,

[00:41:15] Merle says,

[00:41:16] uh,

[00:41:16] yeah,

[00:41:16] I agree with you.

[00:41:17] I don't,

[00:41:17] I don't think he would go through it either.

[00:41:19] So I think,

[00:41:20] um,

[00:41:22] I guess Merle started the plan earlier than he was supposed to or something because he thought Rick wouldn't go through with it.

[00:41:30] Cause then Rick seems surprised that he can't find Merle and Michonne after he changed his mind.

[00:41:34] So as far as,

[00:41:35] um,

[00:41:36] Michonne knows,

[00:41:37] she's agreeing with Merle that she doesn't think Rick would have gone through with it.

[00:41:40] But as far as she knows at this moment,

[00:41:42] that's Rick's plan.

[00:41:44] She doesn't know for sure he changes mind.

[00:41:45] So you would think that we're going to see some kind of,

[00:41:49] uh,

[00:41:51] face off about that between Michonne and Rick.

[00:41:53] I would be pissed if I was her.

[00:41:55] Do we not see that?

[00:41:56] I don't remember.

[00:41:56] I don't know.

[00:41:57] I'm sort of like,

[00:41:58] I might've like that huge fight scene in the ones who live.

[00:42:01] I might've been like,

[00:42:01] I'm at another point.

[00:42:03] Remember when you,

[00:42:04] when we first met,

[00:42:05] remember when you just saw me to the governor,

[00:42:08] you piece of shit.

[00:42:09] Like I'd have been raging,

[00:42:10] but you know,

[00:42:11] that's a marriage fight.

[00:42:13] That's going to keep coming back.

[00:42:14] Yeah.

[00:42:14] You're going to think,

[00:42:15] uh,

[00:42:16] she wins everything ever.

[00:42:17] Cause she's like,

[00:42:18] well,

[00:42:18] you tried to sell me to the governor.

[00:42:20] And he's like,

[00:42:20] okay,

[00:42:20] fair point.

[00:42:21] Yep.

[00:42:21] We can watch.

[00:42:22] All right.

[00:42:22] All right.

[00:42:23] Yep.

[00:42:24] So then Rick sees ghost Lori again and ghost Lori,

[00:42:29] I think,

[00:42:29] I mean,

[00:42:30] before seeing ghosts was about feeling bad for losing people he felt responsible for.

[00:42:36] And so my take on this is he's feeling responsible for Michonne maybe.

[00:42:40] And so that's right when he decides,

[00:42:43] oh,

[00:42:43] I can't go through with this.

[00:42:44] He gathers everyone together,

[00:42:46] tells them everything that he was made this deal with the governor.

[00:42:50] He was going to handle a Michonne changes mind,

[00:42:52] but Merle already took her.

[00:42:53] And he says,

[00:42:54] I was wrong not to tell you.

[00:42:55] And I'm sorry.

[00:42:56] What I said last year,

[00:42:57] that first night after the farm,

[00:42:59] it can't be like that.

[00:43:00] What we do,

[00:43:00] what we're willing to do,

[00:43:01] who we are.

[00:43:02] It's not my call,

[00:43:03] how you live,

[00:43:04] how you diet isn't up to me.

[00:43:05] I'm not your governor.

[00:43:06] And basically,

[00:43:07] you know,

[00:43:07] we vote on everything.

[00:43:08] So I,

[00:43:09] I thought that was all interesting because Rick's arc has been all about like taking responsibility for everyone's safety and then feeling so torn apart when they die or get hurt.

[00:43:21] And,

[00:43:22] and I just think that got to a point where he's,

[00:43:25] he's become just as sort of narcissistic as the governor,

[00:43:29] where he feels like he's the only one who should have agency.

[00:43:33] And it almost feels like everyone is just objects,

[00:43:36] just like the governor lying and manipulating them and doing,

[00:43:40] sending other people to do his dirty work.

[00:43:42] You know,

[00:43:43] it happens to be the same guy Merle that the governor said and Rick,

[00:43:46] but employing.

[00:43:47] Right.

[00:43:49] But,

[00:43:49] uh,

[00:43:50] yeah.

[00:43:51] So he's talking about when he declared,

[00:43:52] this is not a democracy anymore,

[00:43:53] but now he's like,

[00:43:55] no,

[00:43:55] no,

[00:43:55] no,

[00:43:55] we all need to have agency in our lives.

[00:43:58] And I'm offloading that responsibility back to you guys.

[00:44:01] So we can all decide together.

[00:44:04] And,

[00:44:04] uh,

[00:44:05] so I think that fits well in his arc.

[00:44:06] I feel like he goes back and forth a little bit though,

[00:44:09] because later on he becomes more overbearing again,

[00:44:13] but,

[00:44:14] but for next season,

[00:44:15] this moves into like where they have this council at the beginning of season four.

[00:44:19] And Rick's not even on the council.

[00:44:21] I don't think,

[00:44:21] I don't remember.

[00:44:22] No,

[00:44:22] I don't think he's just farming.

[00:44:23] Yeah.

[00:44:23] He just farming.

[00:44:26] It's funny what you were saying about like delegating things.

[00:44:29] I think,

[00:44:31] there's such interesting questions in there about cruelty and the machinations of cruelty

[00:44:35] and how removed you can be from a cruel decision.

[00:44:38] And a lot of that,

[00:44:40] you know,

[00:44:40] speaks to a lot of political decisions that are made across the globe in every country.

[00:44:45] How easy it is to make decisions when it's not you that's getting your hands dirty.

[00:44:49] Like how many of us would eat meat if we had to physically kill the animal that we were about to eat?

[00:44:55] Like I couldn't,

[00:44:56] but I do.

[00:44:57] So like,

[00:44:57] you know,

[00:44:57] there's,

[00:44:58] it's such an interesting thing of like,

[00:45:00] I want to diffuse this guilt.

[00:45:03] I want to get people to agree with me.

[00:45:05] I want to make someone else do it.

[00:45:06] I want to,

[00:45:07] you know,

[00:45:08] I don't want to be the person that's directly responsible for this.

[00:45:11] And that's something that I think does come back in this show.

[00:45:13] And it's,

[00:45:14] it's like a neater version of what they were getting out with Randall.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:19] Or when you get to the Commonwealth,

[00:45:20] it's big in that one where they have all this bad stuff going on outside of the Commonwealth that people there don't realize.

[00:45:29] Yeah.

[00:45:30] And they're just like,

[00:45:30] yeah,

[00:45:31] that's fine.

[00:45:31] That's okay.

[00:45:32] Like whatever.

[00:45:32] I'm happy not knowing.

[00:45:33] Um,

[00:45:34] it's fascinating because it's,

[00:45:36] yeah,

[00:45:36] it's everywhere.

[00:45:36] Every society,

[00:45:37] the good,

[00:45:37] the bad,

[00:45:38] the ugly,

[00:45:38] like we,

[00:45:39] the further removed you are from something,

[00:45:42] the harder it is to feel that in your bones.

[00:45:44] And yeah,

[00:45:45] you don't feel the cost of what we get to experience here.

[00:45:50] And then you see that with the greens,

[00:45:52] you know,

[00:45:53] Herschel is so disgusted at the idea of handing Michonne over,

[00:45:57] but this follows on from a conversation,

[00:45:59] I think about one of the prisoners or Merle where Rick's like,

[00:46:03] are you genuinely okay with having them here with Beth,

[00:46:06] with Maggie,

[00:46:07] like appealing to Herschel,

[00:46:08] like these are your children,

[00:46:09] protect them.

[00:46:10] And then you see Herschel do this amazing kind of biblical reading,

[00:46:14] which I should have looked up which one it was.

[00:46:16] I'm sorry.

[00:46:18] we need Rachel,

[00:46:19] which is read over Rick doing some prep for getting Michonne,

[00:46:23] where he sees Laurie on the bridge twice,

[00:46:24] obviously as a kind of manifestation of his consciousness.

[00:46:28] And he interrupts Herschel to say,

[00:46:30] he's not going to do it.

[00:46:31] Just as I think Herschel's about to accept that that's what's happening.

[00:46:35] When he's saying to the girls,

[00:46:37] what I wouldn't do to keep you girls safe.

[00:46:39] And then Rick comes in and says,

[00:46:40] deals off.

[00:46:41] We're not doing it.

[00:46:42] Which is interesting.

[00:46:43] And Herschel's like,

[00:46:44] well,

[00:46:44] I changed my mind too.

[00:46:45] We should totally do it.

[00:46:46] And Herschel's like,

[00:46:47] what?

[00:46:47] No,

[00:46:47] I didn't say anything.

[00:46:49] And they're like,

[00:46:49] daddy,

[00:46:50] what are you saying?

[00:46:50] He's like,

[00:46:51] nothing.

[00:46:51] What?

[00:46:53] Sorry,

[00:46:53] what?

[00:46:55] Yeah.

[00:46:56] It's,

[00:46:56] it's a rough one.

[00:46:57] It's like,

[00:46:58] uh,

[00:46:59] we've been rewatching,

[00:47:00] uh,

[00:47:01] the good place,

[00:47:01] as I mentioned last week.

[00:47:02] And Peter's like,

[00:47:03] it's sort of like a,

[00:47:04] a very walking dead trolley problem.

[00:47:06] Yeah.

[00:47:07] There's all kinds of trolley problems in the walking dead.

[00:47:10] And if you play,

[00:47:11] you,

[00:47:11] I think you know this,

[00:47:12] but for listeners,

[00:47:12] if you decide to play the telltale walking dead game,

[00:47:18] you're confronted with that kind of thing a lot.

[00:47:21] And you have limited time to decide like who to save,

[00:47:24] who's like to cut off or whatever stuff.

[00:47:26] Oh my God.

[00:47:27] It's so true.

[00:47:28] That's why I stopped playing the games.

[00:47:29] I was too stressed out.

[00:47:30] I was like,

[00:47:31] they were so good.

[00:47:32] And I loved the game of Thrones one was we were talking about the game.

[00:47:35] It's good.

[00:47:36] It was so good,

[00:47:37] but fucking hell,

[00:47:38] they were stressful.

[00:47:39] I just,

[00:47:40] and I couldn't deal with,

[00:47:41] I think it actually made me realize that I couldn't cope with having a child

[00:47:44] because every time like little,

[00:47:46] uh,

[00:47:47] Clementine would look at you and the game would be like,

[00:47:49] Clementine will remember that you said that.

[00:47:51] I was like,

[00:47:51] no,

[00:47:52] I was like,

[00:47:53] don't remember that Clementine.

[00:47:56] Yeah.

[00:47:56] I think about that a lot.

[00:47:57] Like after I finish yelling at my kids,

[00:47:59] I'm like,

[00:48:00] okay,

[00:48:00] future therapy.

[00:48:02] Do they look up at you and you see like little texts going like,

[00:48:05] Bodhi will remember that you said that.

[00:48:07] No.

[00:48:08] Awful.

[00:48:09] Awful.

[00:48:10] Yeah.

[00:48:11] So I'm going to talk about Glenn and Maggie.

[00:48:13] Yay.

[00:48:15] Love is real.

[00:48:17] It's a really weird vibe.

[00:48:18] When you get your ring from a dead lady's head.

[00:48:23] Peter just looked up from his like computer and was like,

[00:48:26] what's he doing?

[00:48:26] And I'm like shopping for an engagement,

[00:48:28] right?

[00:48:28] And he's like,

[00:48:29] oh yeah.

[00:48:29] Yeah.

[00:48:30] And then Maggie's like,

[00:48:32] where'd you get that?

[00:48:33] And he's like,

[00:48:34] oh,

[00:48:34] I just found it.

[00:48:36] I just cleaned it.

[00:48:37] It was like my own pee or something.

[00:48:39] I don't know.

[00:48:39] She's like,

[00:48:40] you got it off a zombie finger.

[00:48:42] Didn't you?

[00:48:43] Yeah.

[00:48:43] You gross.

[00:48:45] You nasty.

[00:48:48] I don't want that.

[00:48:49] But I'll marry you anyway.

[00:48:51] So Glenn asks Herschel's permission to marry Maggie and Herschel's so on board.

[00:48:58] I mean,

[00:48:58] it's funny.

[00:48:59] It's funny because he says,

[00:49:00] he shows him the watch and he's like,

[00:49:02] you gave me this and I didn't know what it meant back then,

[00:49:06] but now I fully understand and I know what it takes.

[00:49:09] And so I went back and the text,

[00:49:12] the dialogue,

[00:49:12] when Herschel first gave it to him in the,

[00:49:14] I think finale of season two,

[00:49:17] he said,

[00:49:17] you become a father someday.

[00:49:19] You'll understand.

[00:49:19] No man is good enough for your little girl until one is.

[00:49:23] And so he,

[00:49:24] Herschel had already made the decision then like,

[00:49:27] yeah,

[00:49:27] I'm going to allow this man to marry my girl,

[00:49:32] you know?

[00:49:33] And,

[00:49:33] and Glenn is just now coming to that himself.

[00:49:36] Like,

[00:49:37] okay,

[00:49:37] I feel like I'm like,

[00:49:39] I think it was sort of a crucible for him to have to be there when the

[00:49:45] governor brutalized Maggie and then for him to wrestle with it.

[00:49:51] And he made it more about himself.

[00:49:53] But now,

[00:49:54] um,

[00:49:55] and I heard someone wrote in last week about this,

[00:49:57] and had a really good message that I heard.

[00:49:59] But anyway,

[00:49:59] he's like,

[00:50:00] I made it too much about myself.

[00:50:01] I needed to be there for her.

[00:50:03] And so now he's ready for that.

[00:50:06] I'm ready to be there for Maggie.

[00:50:08] And so he's ready to step up and be good enough to be good enough for

[00:50:14] Herschel's daughter.

[00:50:16] And I think,

[00:50:17] um,

[00:50:18] obviously me being the like cynical person that I am,

[00:50:21] I have thoughts about people asking for permission for marriage,

[00:50:24] but to me,

[00:50:25] this is perfect because it's absolutely the kind of man that Herschel is.

[00:50:27] Herschel is in the kind of family.

[00:50:28] The greens are that a traditional move like that makes complete sense.

[00:50:32] And it's carried out very well here by Glenn.

[00:50:34] And it's just lovely.

[00:50:36] Jenny asked me,

[00:50:37] I was surprised because Jenny's a very modern progressive person who doesn't

[00:50:42] seem to usually conform to tradition very much,

[00:50:44] but she asked me to ask her dad if I could marry her.

[00:50:47] And I was so nervous.

[00:50:49] And I,

[00:50:50] she wasn't in the room and I asked him,

[00:50:52] he said,

[00:50:53] yeah,

[00:50:53] he's like,

[00:50:55] uh,

[00:50:55] I can't really control what she does anyway.

[00:50:57] That was the answer.

[00:51:00] Like looking up from a newspaper.

[00:51:02] Like,

[00:51:02] yeah,

[00:51:02] sure.

[00:51:02] Like,

[00:51:03] whatever.

[00:51:06] She might not say yes.

[00:51:08] I liked when Glenn handed her the ring and said here,

[00:51:14] it doesn't sound very romantic,

[00:51:16] but the way it went out and she just said yes.

[00:51:18] So that,

[00:51:18] I like that.

[00:51:19] What I like about so few words is just shows how connected they are,

[00:51:24] that they,

[00:51:24] they understand each other without needing to say much.

[00:51:27] I love that.

[00:51:29] And it's,

[00:51:29] yeah,

[00:51:30] it,

[00:51:30] it goes to show how untraditional in some ways they are as well as having this

[00:51:37] backlog of amazing family and traditions,

[00:51:40] but also being quite Spartan about things like in a nice way.

[00:51:44] It's,

[00:51:44] it's lovely.

[00:51:44] I just love it.

[00:51:45] I mean,

[00:51:46] I think,

[00:51:47] yeah,

[00:51:47] sometimes tradition and ritual can make things feel inauthentic because you're

[00:51:54] going through motions and you can bring authenticity.

[00:51:57] But when you don't have that sort of skeleton there of whatever the tradition

[00:52:02] is,

[00:52:03] then it is just all pure authenticity,

[00:52:07] like pure love right there.

[00:52:08] And that,

[00:52:09] and it's so great to have these two characters who are both just such good

[00:52:13] people in love.

[00:52:15] That's a nice thing to have in this bleak show,

[00:52:18] you know,

[00:52:19] until it's gone.

[00:52:20] I know.

[00:52:21] I fucking know.

[00:52:22] And I will say the ring is like so much nicer than the one in the ones who

[00:52:26] live.

[00:52:26] The one in the ones who live is disgusting.

[00:52:28] This will ring actually really nice.

[00:52:30] Just saying.

[00:52:32] Where did that ring come from?

[00:52:33] I went on a rant.

[00:52:34] I forgot.

[00:52:34] It was something to do,

[00:52:35] it was something to do with father Gabriel.

[00:52:37] Oh,

[00:52:38] and what's her name?

[00:52:41] Anne.

[00:52:42] Yeah.

[00:52:42] Jadis.

[00:52:43] Jadis,

[00:52:43] maybe.

[00:52:44] I forget.

[00:52:44] Yeah.

[00:52:45] What were you going to say?

[00:52:45] Whatever.

[00:52:47] No,

[00:52:47] that was it.

[00:52:47] I was just like,

[00:52:48] that ring is just nicer.

[00:52:49] Just saying.

[00:52:50] Anyone think of buying a ring?

[00:52:51] I would say that one's nicer,

[00:52:52] but whatever.

[00:52:53] I thought there was some nice dialogue and lines in here when Merle says,

[00:53:00] you're a late bloomer.

[00:53:01] And Carol says,

[00:53:02] maybe you are too.

[00:53:03] I,

[00:53:04] I was like,

[00:53:05] who wrote this?

[00:53:05] This is great.

[00:53:06] I bet it was Nicole Beatty.

[00:53:07] Cause she does good Merle episodes,

[00:53:09] but no,

[00:53:10] it was Gimple.

[00:53:11] It was Scott Gimple.

[00:53:12] Yeah.

[00:53:12] It was a Gimple episode.

[00:53:14] This is kind of,

[00:53:15] we're coming into Gimple's golden era.

[00:53:17] Yeah.

[00:53:18] Soon.

[00:53:18] I think like this is,

[00:53:20] yeah,

[00:53:20] this is good stuff,

[00:53:21] but it sort of makes sense that Michonne,

[00:53:24] if you buy into what I was saying before,

[00:53:26] serves a similar role here for Merle that she ends up serving for Rick later on.

[00:53:31] Well,

[00:53:31] that sounds bad,

[00:53:33] but she's,

[00:53:33] she's got her shit together and she's helping someone else get their shit

[00:53:37] together.

[00:53:38] And she's a smart lady.

[00:53:39] Yeah.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:41] No,

[00:53:41] that makes a lot of sense.

[00:53:42] I liked when Merle said,

[00:53:43] we got any whiskey.

[00:53:45] Hell,

[00:53:45] I'd even drink vodka.

[00:53:46] I just think that's funny.

[00:53:47] Cause right now I'm turning into this whiskey snob.

[00:53:49] So I totally get it.

[00:53:53] Um,

[00:53:54] what you said already,

[00:53:55] you got to play the hand you're dealt.

[00:53:56] I only got one.

[00:53:58] That's very,

[00:53:59] uh,

[00:54:00] clever for Merle.

[00:54:02] Works on multiple levels.

[00:54:04] It's funny.

[00:54:05] He seems the stuff about his hand in this episode,

[00:54:07] is he seems to have reached a bit of a conclusion about some of it,

[00:54:10] like a bit of peace.

[00:54:11] You know,

[00:54:11] he's like,

[00:54:12] I thought a lot about you,

[00:54:13] Rick,

[00:54:13] but you know,

[00:54:13] it's not,

[00:54:14] it's not actually anger that there's like frustration,

[00:54:17] but not,

[00:54:18] he's not going to kill Rick anymore for that.

[00:54:20] He's just sort of,

[00:54:21] and when he says,

[00:54:22] I thought a lot about you,

[00:54:22] Rick.

[00:54:22] And then he says to Michelle later,

[00:54:23] he's the guy who came back for me on the roof.

[00:54:25] Maybe he's starting to realize that that's the true judge of Rick's character,

[00:54:29] rather than the fact he banged him up in the first place.

[00:54:31] Maybe so.

[00:54:32] Yeah.

[00:54:32] I mean,

[00:54:32] I thought I,

[00:54:33] my thought about that is easy saying that makes Rick soft or is he wondering,

[00:54:39] is that make him soft?

[00:54:40] Or does that just make him a good kind of person?

[00:54:43] And I want to be that too.

[00:54:45] Maybe it's sort of,

[00:54:45] he doesn't quite know,

[00:54:46] you know,

[00:54:47] little of column A,

[00:54:48] little of column B.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:50] Uh,

[00:54:51] when Herschel said about the governor,

[00:54:53] he's one man,

[00:54:54] there'll be others like him.

[00:54:55] I'm like,

[00:54:56] yep,

[00:54:56] they're coming up.

[00:54:58] Yep.

[00:54:59] Just around the corner girl.

[00:55:01] Yep.

[00:55:02] Yep.

[00:55:02] All right.

[00:55:03] I guess I just have notes left too.

[00:55:05] So what do you got?

[00:55:06] I think I might've covered all my notes.

[00:55:08] I've got my timeline and IMDB dive,

[00:55:10] but Rick says we are,

[00:55:12] we are the greater good rather than we are the walking dead,

[00:55:15] which is good.

[00:55:16] Um,

[00:55:17] yeah,

[00:55:17] no,

[00:55:17] I think we've covered mine.

[00:55:19] Okay.

[00:55:19] Uh,

[00:55:20] seeing Daryl react to zombie Merle and crying in anguish,

[00:55:24] it made me think about how Daryl in season one mocked anyone who suggested the walkers

[00:55:32] were anything other than mindless monsters.

[00:55:35] Uh,

[00:55:35] it's just not that there's anything wrong with that.

[00:55:40] When you're deciding how to handle walkers,

[00:55:43] it's probably better to think of them that way,

[00:55:45] but it's just an interesting contrast.

[00:55:47] When it's your brother,

[00:55:48] you have a different point of view,

[00:55:49] you know,

[00:55:50] now he sees him as,

[00:55:52] um,

[00:55:52] the former humanity of a Zed.

[00:55:55] Yeah.

[00:55:56] Yeah.

[00:55:57] Uh,

[00:55:59] and then,

[00:55:59] uh,

[00:56:00] the,

[00:56:00] the darkest two things that I can remember in the walking dead comic,

[00:56:05] we've talked about quite a few times now,

[00:56:07] but it's when the governor ties up Michonne and rapes and tortures her.

[00:56:12] And then when Michonne pays him back by dismembering him piece by piece with a spoon shown in graphic detail in the comic.

[00:56:20] And we wondered,

[00:56:22] what are they going to do with that in the show?

[00:56:24] And I think the show is clearly implying that this governor has the capacity and the intention to do the same.

[00:56:32] Merle says,

[00:56:33] give him that girl.

[00:56:34] He ain't going to kill her.

[00:56:35] You know,

[00:56:35] he's just going to do things to her,

[00:56:36] probably take out one of her eyes.

[00:56:38] Both of them.

[00:56:38] Most likely that's to signal to his comic readers that,

[00:56:41] yeah,

[00:56:41] he wants to do what he did in the comic.

[00:56:43] And I don't know for sure,

[00:56:45] but I believe Michonne at this point probably would also have the capacity of he did do what he did in the comic to do the same thing that Michonne did in the comic maybe.

[00:56:52] Right.

[00:56:53] Yeah.

[00:56:54] I think it's a neat way of nodding to that horror without doing it on screen.

[00:56:58] Yeah.

[00:56:59] And,

[00:56:59] and,

[00:56:59] and,

[00:57:00] and I'm thankful they,

[00:57:01] they didn't do it on screen.

[00:57:02] I think,

[00:57:03] um,

[00:57:03] the comic can be more intense than the show.

[00:57:06] And in this case,

[00:57:07] they tone the show down and,

[00:57:09] and maybe in the moment I was sort of wondering,

[00:57:11] was that the right thing to do?

[00:57:12] But in hindsight,

[00:57:13] I'm just glad they did that,

[00:57:14] especially after they did not tone down the moment where Negan killed Glenn.

[00:57:19] And I think that was a mistake,

[00:57:20] you know?

[00:57:21] Oh yeah.

[00:57:22] No.

[00:57:22] And having seen that,

[00:57:23] I'm like,

[00:57:24] no,

[00:57:24] no.

[00:57:25] Yeah.

[00:57:26] So yeah,

[00:57:27] that's all I got.

[00:57:29] Well,

[00:57:30] this is day 312.

[00:57:32] Um,

[00:57:33] this is happening in the same timeline as the second half of Prey.

[00:57:37] So at some point during this day,

[00:57:39] Andrea has arrived by the prison.

[00:57:42] And,

[00:57:42] uh,

[00:57:44] being caught by the governor.

[00:57:46] Interestingly,

[00:57:46] I had it in my head that we saw Rick's perspective of that scene in this episode.

[00:57:51] The closest we see is him catching Michonne in the eyeline of his gun from the watchtower.

[00:57:57] Um,

[00:57:59] I don't know if that means Michonne was actually near the governor and Andrea at that point.

[00:58:03] And that's another point where she could have intervened,

[00:58:05] but didn't realize they were there.

[00:58:07] Oh,

[00:58:07] so this is the same day that Andrea shows up and almost gets to the prison.

[00:58:12] Okay.

[00:58:12] But then Peter was like,

[00:58:14] wasn't the governor busy killing Merle?

[00:58:17] So the timeline might be janky here.

[00:58:21] Um,

[00:58:21] or maybe he like stopped off on the way back.

[00:58:23] Like,

[00:58:23] I don't know.

[00:58:24] I don't know.

[00:58:25] Um,

[00:58:26] yeah,

[00:58:27] I don't thought,

[00:58:27] I don't think that's right because,

[00:58:29] well,

[00:58:30] I mean,

[00:58:31] what did they,

[00:58:32] how much he gave Rick two days to decide whether to hand over Michonne.

[00:58:36] Is that right?

[00:58:37] And to meet him back there at noon in two days.

[00:58:40] I think,

[00:58:41] I think that's right.

[00:58:42] If he got Andrea early in the morning,

[00:58:44] I guess,

[00:58:45] and drove back and then drove back.

[00:58:47] I think it was within that two days that all that happened with Andrea and the governor.

[00:58:51] I'm still not over the fact it's autumn and we're saying that it's July,

[00:58:54] but whatever.

[00:58:55] Um,

[00:58:56] IMDb dive.

[00:58:57] This title,

[00:58:58] as many listeners know,

[00:58:59] comes from volume six of the collected edition of the comic book series.

[00:59:02] In said volume,

[00:59:04] Rick Glenn and Michonne having been captured by the governor upon their first meeting in volume five,

[00:59:08] escape from Woodbury and make it back to the prison.

[00:59:12] Um,

[00:59:13] and the second fact,

[00:59:14] which I thought you would really like if it,

[00:59:16] if it turns out to be true.

[00:59:18] Um,

[00:59:18] when Merle is sitting in the car drinking and blasting music in order to attract walkers,

[00:59:22] a zombie emerges from a building.

[00:59:24] That's an obvious nod to the bald zombie at the airstrip from George A.

[00:59:28] Romero's Dawn of the Dead.

[00:59:30] It's wearing the same clothes,

[00:59:32] has a completely bald head,

[00:59:33] and also has the exact same injuries as in the movie.

[00:59:38] Nick Gutera does that a lot.

[00:59:39] He has tribute zombies.

[00:59:41] Yeah,

[00:59:41] I like it.

[00:59:41] Yeah.

[00:59:42] So I wondered when it came out,

[00:59:43] I was like,

[00:59:44] ah,

[00:59:44] yeah,

[00:59:44] that is quite a tribute zombie there.

[00:59:46] So yeah,

[00:59:47] that's my,

[00:59:48] that's my facts.

[00:59:49] Cool.

[00:59:50] Uh,

[00:59:50] only on the walking dead would ripping a dead woman's fingers off be part of one of the most romantic gestures ever on the show.

[00:59:59] Uh,

[01:00:00] wow.

[01:00:01] Uh,

[01:00:03] only on the walking dead would Merle be the answer to your problems.

[01:00:12] To any problem.

[01:00:14] To any problem.

[01:00:14] As opposed to being the problem.

[01:00:16] Yep.

[01:00:16] Yep.

[01:00:17] Yep.

[01:00:44] Yep.

[01:00:44] We're back.

[01:00:45] It's time for listener moans,

[01:00:46] grown to grunts.

[01:00:52] We'll start with a little recap from Steve Brown.

[01:00:55] Yay.

[01:00:56] Hello,

[01:00:56] the cat.

[01:00:57] This is Steve.

[01:00:58] And gosh,

[01:00:58] time just got away from me this,

[01:01:00] uh,

[01:01:00] this week.

[01:01:01] So I hope I get this in in time.

[01:01:02] Oh,

[01:01:03] and so we start with,

[01:01:04] uh,

[01:01:04] I guess,

[01:01:05] uh,

[01:01:05] Rick has told Daryl and,

[01:01:07] um,

[01:01:08] Herschel about the deal with Michonne,

[01:01:10] right?

[01:01:10] Don't remember how this plays out because he's,

[01:01:12] it sounds like Rick is saying he's going to give Michonne to the governor,

[01:01:15] but I think there's some sort of twist.

[01:01:16] Isn't there?

[01:01:17] So,

[01:01:18] okay.

[01:01:18] Rick is enlisted,

[01:01:20] Merle's help,

[01:01:20] but Merle doesn't believe,

[01:01:22] uh,

[01:01:22] Rick will be able to do it.

[01:01:23] And Michonne doesn't know anything about it yet either.

[01:01:26] Okay.

[01:01:26] Oh,

[01:01:27] interesting.

[01:01:27] I,

[01:01:27] uh,

[01:01:28] I hadn't thought about this.

[01:01:29] This is the beginning of the transformation of,

[01:01:32] of Carol,

[01:01:32] right?

[01:01:33] Or I mean,

[01:01:33] not the beginning is it's been happening for a while,

[01:01:34] but we're really starting to see it here with their conversation with Merle.

[01:01:38] Yeah,

[01:01:38] actually,

[01:01:39] uh,

[01:01:39] I meant to comment on that.

[01:01:40] I feel like Carol in this episode feels like Carol now in this interaction with

[01:01:46] Merle.

[01:01:47] It's like,

[01:01:47] Oh yeah,

[01:01:48] this is the Carol we know.

[01:01:49] She's like,

[01:01:50] I'm not scared anymore.

[01:01:52] Yeah.

[01:01:53] And Daryl trying to,

[01:01:54] uh,

[01:01:55] broker some peace between Merle and Glenn by going to both of them,

[01:01:58] I guess separately.

[01:01:59] Right.

[01:02:00] Oh,

[01:02:00] now I think I remember Merle's he's getting the phone cause it's got wire in it

[01:02:04] cause he's going to actually take Michonne cause he doesn't think Rick will

[01:02:07] actually do it.

[01:02:09] Rick's hallucinating Lori again.

[01:02:11] Okay.

[01:02:11] So Rick did change his mind.

[01:02:12] He's not going to do it.

[01:02:13] Oh,

[01:02:14] that had to suck.

[01:02:15] That Michelle being dragged like that by Merle.

[01:02:18] Oh,

[01:02:19] and now Daryl's going after Merle and Michonne.

[01:02:21] He just called Rick family.

[01:02:22] Wow.

[01:02:23] That has got to be the loudest car alarm.

[01:02:26] I think I've ever heard in my entire life.

[01:02:30] Michonne just crushed that Walker's head with her boot.

[01:02:34] Oh,

[01:02:35] Oh,

[01:02:35] I remember this now.

[01:02:36] This is where Glenn gets the ring.

[01:02:38] It happens to find a Walker with the same ring size as Maggie.

[01:02:42] I mean,

[01:02:43] it's just a little bit.

[01:02:44] Huh?

[01:02:44] Oh,

[01:02:45] so Merle's letting Michonne go.

[01:02:47] I don't remember this.

[01:02:49] That was a great roll out of the car by Merle.

[01:02:51] And now he's ambushed the ambushers.

[01:02:54] Oh,

[01:02:54] but now they've caught Merle and now the governor is giving him the boots.

[01:02:58] Did the governor just bite off two of his fingers?

[01:03:01] Oh,

[01:03:01] I'm getting choked up here with this proposal.

[01:03:04] It's not really a proposal.

[01:03:06] He just gives her the ring and she says,

[01:03:08] yes.

[01:03:08] Oh,

[01:03:09] Oh,

[01:03:09] great speech from Rick.

[01:03:10] There's almost the live together.

[01:03:12] Die alone.

[01:03:13] Lost.

[01:03:13] I don't know that why that just occurred to me.

[01:03:16] Oh,

[01:03:16] and Daryl seeing the aftermath of what happened here at the,

[01:03:19] this place,

[01:03:21] right where the governor was.

[01:03:22] Oh,

[01:03:22] and he just see,

[01:03:23] he just found Merle.

[01:03:25] Oh,

[01:03:26] Oh,

[01:03:27] and it's a sad moment.

[01:03:28] He had to put his brother down and that great makeup effects though on,

[01:03:31] uh,

[01:03:32] on Rooker.

[01:03:32] Wow.

[01:03:33] Yeah.

[01:03:34] Yeah.

[01:03:34] Yeah.

[01:03:35] Yeah.

[01:03:35] They kept like the fresh zombies had a certain look at from Amy on,

[01:03:41] you know,

[01:03:42] Andrea's sister,

[01:03:43] but he reminded me too.

[01:03:45] I liked the style with which Merle got that sort of herd of zombies to follow his car.

[01:03:52] First,

[01:03:52] she just sat there playing like punk metal or something and they came around and he was

[01:03:57] chuckling and swigging booze.

[01:04:00] Give them booze.

[01:04:01] Yeah.

[01:04:01] Then he just like takes off slow and they,

[01:04:05] I think this episode had a good,

[01:04:07] um,

[01:04:08] good cinematography.

[01:04:09] Like at one point Daryl's,

[01:04:11] uh,

[01:04:12] coming down looking for Merle and the bowels of the prison and it's the cameras like over

[01:04:17] his shoulder as he has his crossbow out in case any zombies pop out and comes around

[01:04:22] the corner and then there's Merle and he lowers it.

[01:04:24] And I don't know,

[01:04:25] it just felt like cinematic and well done.

[01:04:28] It's a great one.

[01:04:29] It's so weird.

[01:04:30] Um,

[01:04:32] well,

[01:04:32] Jacob Decker says,

[01:04:34] yes,

[01:04:35] thank you for this community.

[01:04:36] I'm just in awe that I still have someone to talk and debate with about episodes,

[01:04:40] characters,

[01:04:41] development of characters.

[01:04:42] It's just so much fun after all this time that we can still love this show with our niche

[01:04:46] group.

[01:04:46] Don't get bit y'all.

[01:04:48] Well,

[01:04:48] I will try not to Jacob.

[01:04:49] Well said.

[01:04:50] Yeah.

[01:04:51] Good job.

[01:04:51] I'm glad you feel that way.

[01:04:53] Andy Fisher says,

[01:04:54] dear J Lou,

[01:04:55] thank you again for the wonderful podcast.

[01:04:57] You're welcome.

[01:04:58] I'm glad you're with us,

[01:05:00] Andy.

[01:05:01] I enjoy hearing what you and the listeners think about this wonderful show.

[01:05:04] This sorrowful life is about betrayal and bravery in the worst of situations.

[01:05:09] Season three does an awesome job putting beloved characters in sorrowful slash betrayal

[01:05:14] slash deadly situations.

[01:05:16] And then watching as they fight their way through slash out of it.

[01:05:19] I love every scene in this episode.

[01:05:21] And I think it's one of the best episodes in the series.

[01:05:24] Can you believe that Rick and Daryl were so scared and hopeless that the betrayal of

[01:05:28] Michonne made sense to them?

[01:05:30] Almost not.

[01:05:31] Honestly,

[01:05:32] Merle is such an iconic character.

[01:05:34] Jason's like,

[01:05:34] no,

[01:05:35] no.

[01:05:36] Merle is such an iconic character,

[01:05:38] crazy,

[01:05:39] hilarious,

[01:05:40] dangerous.

[01:05:40] And the ending was such a surprise.

[01:05:43] I think,

[01:05:44] I think,

[01:05:45] you know,

[01:05:45] at the time I thought maybe Michael Rooker just wanted to sign on for one season,

[01:05:50] but it seems like in panels,

[01:05:52] he's sort of come off like,

[01:05:56] no,

[01:05:56] he didn't have a choice.

[01:05:57] They wanted him to go,

[01:05:58] but I think it was better for his career.

[01:06:01] He went on to do after that.

[01:06:04] I think Merle was with us for the perfect amount of time.

[01:06:07] Did what he needed to do.

[01:06:09] I think more would have been too much.

[01:06:12] Yeah.

[01:06:13] Yeah.

[01:06:13] Yeah.

[01:06:16] Lily Finkel says,

[01:06:17] not episode specific,

[01:06:19] but over the past few months,

[01:06:20] I binged every episode of the pod except Daryl.

[01:06:23] I love him,

[01:06:23] but I just haven't paid to stream it yet.

[01:06:25] And you guys were my number one podcast on Spotify rat.

[01:06:29] We just spoiled something for her.

[01:06:31] I realized.

[01:06:32] Yeah.

[01:06:32] We just spoiled something.

[01:06:33] I'm sorry,

[01:06:33] Lily.

[01:06:34] I'm sorry.

[01:06:34] Please don't listen to us,

[01:06:35] Lily.

[01:06:35] Um,

[01:06:37] I started watching the walking dead when it first aired and watched every episode with

[01:06:40] my dad until Glenn died.

[01:06:42] I'm actually the same age as Chandler Riggs.

[01:06:45] That blows my mind.

[01:06:46] That's incredible.

[01:06:47] Cause we interviewed him when he was like eight years old in the back of his car.

[01:06:50] Yeah.

[01:06:51] Um,

[01:06:52] I went back and finished the series last year and then watched fear had to power through.

[01:06:56] And after that,

[01:06:57] I just wanted more.

[01:06:58] I'm so happy.

[01:06:59] I found this pod.

[01:07:00] You all have the best commentary and bring up details.

[01:07:02] I never would have known.

[01:07:03] And also none of my friends want to hear me talk about the walking dead.

[01:07:06] So I needed this.

[01:07:07] Thanks Jason and Lucy and Karen and everyone else.

[01:07:10] Oh,

[01:07:11] thank you,

[01:07:11] Lily.

[01:07:12] That's really cool.

[01:07:12] Do you know,

[01:07:12] Jason Spotify did not reach out for us to do one of those.

[01:07:16] Thank you.

[01:07:16] Listener videos.

[01:07:17] Taylor Swift got to do one.

[01:07:18] We didn't get.

[01:07:19] Oh,

[01:07:20] well they asked and I said,

[01:07:22] no.

[01:07:22] So I was like,

[01:07:24] eh,

[01:07:25] nerds.

[01:07:26] Uh,

[01:07:27] Lily,

[01:07:27] I think it'd be fun if you called in,

[01:07:30] call in.

[01:07:30] Yeah.

[01:07:31] Do it.

[01:07:33] Jody language says Michael Rooker is such a great actor in this episode.

[01:07:37] Showcase his talent.

[01:07:39] So true.

[01:07:39] We had so many one-on-one conversations,

[01:07:42] Rick asking Merle,

[01:07:43] do you even know why you do the things that you do?

[01:07:45] And Merle eventually replying.

[01:07:46] No,

[01:07:47] I don't.

[01:07:47] I'm a damn mystery to me.

[01:07:49] Merle telling Carol,

[01:07:50] she's a late bloomer.

[01:07:51] Daryl telling Glenn that Merle will make it right.

[01:07:54] Daryl telling Merle,

[01:07:55] he wants his brother back.

[01:07:57] Michonne telling Merle that they can just go back.

[01:08:00] Glenn telling Herschel,

[01:08:01] he wants to marry Maggie and then giving Maggie that ring,

[01:08:04] which we all hope he boiled for at least a half hour.

[01:08:08] It looked shiny.

[01:08:09] So fingers crossed.

[01:08:10] Nice and clean.

[01:08:11] Daryl telling Rick,

[01:08:13] you can cross those two fingers.

[01:08:16] Daryl tells Rick he's,

[01:08:18] he he's family too,

[01:08:19] which always brings a tear to my eye.

[01:08:22] Rick's speech to the group all the while rolling between his fingers,

[01:08:25] the bullet that killed Lori.

[01:08:28] I did not notice that.

[01:08:29] I did not notice that.

[01:08:30] I noticed his wedding ring,

[01:08:32] but I didn't notice that.

[01:08:33] Holy moly.

[01:08:34] She says he picked it up from the floor where her body was and has been carrying it in his pocket ever since.

[01:08:40] Interesting.

[01:08:40] That adds more weight to the scene.

[01:08:42] He,

[01:08:43] it,

[01:08:43] it has always stuck in my mind since I heard Andy Lincoln talk about it in an interview.

[01:08:47] Then of course,

[01:08:48] the heartbreak at the end for Daryl after Merle has sacrificed himself to protect his brother.

[01:08:53] This is of course peak walking dead and I will never get tired of rewatching it.

[01:08:58] As always,

[01:08:59] thanks J and L for the excellent podcasting and just general chit chatting.

[01:09:04] You're both very entertaining and make me laugh and cry when you get emotional.

[01:09:09] Oh,

[01:09:10] I'm sorry.

[01:09:10] Thanks Jodie.

[01:09:11] Nice to hear from you,

[01:09:12] Jodie.

[01:09:13] Lovely to hear from you.

[01:09:15] Josie Bowen Eftel says,

[01:09:17] I forgot Merle's redemption arc and I loved watching Michonne make him think and reflect.

[01:09:22] Those scenes were so character driven and beautiful.

[01:09:25] She's so calm and collected in all situations and so totally badass.

[01:09:29] I want to be Michonne when I grow up.

[01:09:32] Michael Rueker is phenomenal in this episode.

[01:09:34] When Daryl discovers Merle,

[01:09:36] your heart just has to break for him.

[01:09:38] Merle was a piece of shit,

[01:09:39] but there were so many feelings there.

[01:09:41] Daryl just looked like a little boy.

[01:09:43] Another thing I appreciate about Daryl is he always lets Rick know,

[01:09:46] when he doesn't agree with him,

[01:09:48] though he clearly respects him in most of his choices.

[01:09:51] Daryl is such a vital part of the group and I love that they fully see that now.

[01:09:56] Oh,

[01:09:56] Glenn asks Herschel for his blessing and wants to marry Maggie.

[01:09:59] So sweet.

[01:10:00] Her soft little yes.

[01:10:02] The governor has really transformed into his full psycho self.

[01:10:05] Damn.

[01:10:06] I'm so glad Rick had his speech in front of the group.

[01:10:08] This ain't a democracy no more,

[01:10:10] except yes,

[01:10:10] it is and it should be.

[01:10:12] There's something so special about watching the show episode by episode instead of binging.

[01:10:16] Which I've never done before.

[01:10:18] I discovered the show late when it was in its 11th season.

[01:10:21] Holy moly.

[01:10:22] And I've come back to the rewatch committed to only watching one episode at a time.

[01:10:26] I'm loving it even more than the first time I watched,

[01:10:28] which I thought would be hard to beat.

[01:10:30] It has definitely made me less irritated at characters like Andrea

[01:10:33] and more appreciative of every little morsel of the episode.

[01:10:36] Glad you're back,

[01:10:37] Jason.

[01:10:38] It was lovely to hear Lucy and Peter last week.

[01:10:40] Can't wait to listen.

[01:10:41] Bye.

[01:10:41] Bye.

[01:10:42] I'm assuming it was bye.

[01:10:44] It actually just says bye.

[01:10:45] Yeah,

[01:10:45] it just says bye.

[01:10:47] Yeah,

[01:10:47] that's interesting.

[01:10:48] She's,

[01:10:48] that's a rare experience.

[01:10:50] I would say to experience a show by binging it first and then weekly.

[01:10:56] I like it.

[01:10:57] It's interesting.

[01:10:58] I have so many thoughts now about how the experience of binging versus rewatching versus

[01:11:02] watching week to week impacts what you think about something.

[01:11:06] Yeah.

[01:11:06] It's so interesting.

[01:11:07] I don't know if I will ever have the experience of binging this show.

[01:11:12] I think it's always been week to week for me.

[01:11:14] And because now during the rewatch,

[01:11:16] we're doing an episode a week,

[01:11:17] it's the same thing.

[01:11:18] But so I don't know,

[01:11:20] man.

[01:11:21] I think maybe when we used to do like,

[01:11:24] there was more time in between seasons at first because the seasons were shorter

[01:11:28] and we would do rewatches.

[01:11:31] I would do some binging then,

[01:11:33] but starting with probably this season on,

[01:11:35] I don't think I did.

[01:11:37] But anyway,

[01:11:39] Dina says Merle's short arc.

[01:11:41] I love it.

[01:11:42] He doesn't put on a grandiose show of being a hero.

[01:11:46] That's true.

[01:11:47] He tells Michonne nothing about what he intends to do.

[01:11:50] He fails.

[01:11:52] Only we know that he's had a sort of redemption.

[01:11:56] Well,

[01:11:56] he tells Michonne,

[01:11:58] you go back.

[01:11:59] There's something I got to do.

[01:12:01] And I'm pretty sure Michonne knows what he's going to do.

[01:12:05] But you're right.

[01:12:06] He doesn't say that right.

[01:12:07] I think Daryl tells them as well.

[01:12:09] Yeah.

[01:12:09] In some way.

[01:12:10] Maybe.

[01:12:10] I don't know.

[01:12:11] A couple of moments in this episode that stand out for me is the sincere and open

[01:12:15] conversation between Merle and Michonne.

[01:12:17] Yes.

[01:12:17] As well as Merle's decision to put his brother's life before his own.

[01:12:21] Also a motorhead.

[01:12:24] Which I guess was playing in Merle's car.

[01:12:27] And Daryl's inexplicable dyed and salon cut hair.

[01:12:32] Luke,

[01:12:33] he's worth it.

[01:12:34] Okay.

[01:12:36] Then maybe it's Mabel.

[01:12:37] You know,

[01:12:38] that's different.

[01:12:38] Then there's.

[01:12:40] Yeah.

[01:12:40] Maybe he's born with it.

[01:12:41] that's what it is.

[01:12:42] Yeah.

[01:12:43] Then there's.

[01:12:44] Don't hate him because he's beautiful.

[01:12:46] Yeah.

[01:12:47] Yeah.

[01:12:47] Then there's the line,

[01:12:48] man,

[01:12:48] I just want my brother back.

[01:12:50] That's a good line.

[01:12:52] And it seemed to impact Merle.

[01:12:53] I think.

[01:12:54] And then he goes,

[01:12:54] shut up.

[01:12:56] Yeah.

[01:12:56] Daryl did love Merle flawed as he was.

[01:12:58] And he never did get his brother back as he so wanted.

[01:13:02] There was no satisfying reconciliation between them,

[01:13:05] which is one of the reasons Merle's arc is so compelling.

[01:13:07] It's kind of like Lori and Rick left things left undone and unsaid.

[01:13:11] Nothing is tied in a neat little sparkly bow.

[01:13:14] It's great writing.

[01:13:15] Now there's no doubt that Rick and Daryl are brothers.

[01:13:17] That bond is unshakable in the depth of their regard for each other.

[01:13:21] Makes this my favorite relationship on the walking dead.

[01:13:24] That's yeah.

[01:13:25] It might be mine too.

[01:13:26] After this season,

[01:13:27] whenever Daryl talks about his brother,

[01:13:29] we know that he means Rick.

[01:13:31] It still bothered me that not long after Merle dies,

[01:13:34] he seems to be forgotten.

[01:13:37] We do see him again in those ridiculous final season montages that play

[01:13:41] while Judith waxes poetically about the meaning of life.

[01:13:44] But those scenes were so tacky that they made me squirm.

[01:13:46] I don't totally remember those.

[01:13:48] There was nothing satisfying about seeing Merle again,

[01:13:50] just a rehash of the same material.

[01:13:52] The writers were trying to make it emotional,

[01:13:54] I guess,

[01:13:54] but it didn't work for me.

[01:13:56] Then the Daryl show arrived.

[01:13:57] And in one tiny moment,

[01:13:58] the writers fixed the writing failure of the main show.

[01:14:00] Instead of a flashback of Daryl bawling over zombie Merle,

[01:14:03] we get a new authentic scene that is played beautifully by Reedus.

[01:14:07] There's a glee on his face.

[01:14:08] When he first sees Mork and Mindy,

[01:14:10] the happy expression morphs quickly into sadness.

[01:14:13] The writing and acting is so good that we know Daryl's thinking of Merle,

[01:14:16] even before he tells Isabel about how he and his brother found refuge in that

[01:14:20] sitcom.

[01:14:21] Most of us have complicated families and we don't always get closure in life.

[01:14:25] Daryl never received that gift with Merle,

[01:14:27] but I feel like I did.

[01:14:29] That small beat in the Daryl show brought me right back to the tragic moment

[01:14:32] when Merle lifts his head from his feast and looks at his brother with a sad,

[01:14:36] empty gaze.

[01:14:37] I'm really enjoying how the spinoffs in their quieter moments enhance the rewatch

[01:14:41] and love that we get to talk about it all.

[01:14:43] Thanks for doing this.

[01:14:44] Yeah,

[01:14:44] that I agree.

[01:14:45] That was a lovely moment in the Daryl show,

[01:14:48] the whole Mork and Mindy bit.

[01:14:50] I love that.

[01:14:51] I'm thinking of little Merle and Daryl watching that together,

[01:14:55] having a good time.

[01:14:56] Mork and Mindy and Dork and Daryl.

[01:15:00] Aww.

[01:15:01] Well,

[01:15:02] I see.

[01:15:02] We've got some more feedback re-last week's episode because someone,

[01:15:06] this dum-dum,

[01:15:08] didn't manage to catch these.

[01:15:09] Randy screwed it all up.

[01:15:10] Randy screwed me up.

[01:15:11] No,

[01:15:11] he didn't.

[01:15:12] Randy was an angel and sent me the feedback and I didn't read the messages

[01:15:16] right.

[01:15:16] So,

[01:15:17] Randy,

[01:15:17] you're a gem.

[01:15:18] We love you.

[01:15:19] So,

[01:15:19] here are the three messages that we didn't get around to reading last week.

[01:15:22] Danielle,

[01:15:23] Andy and Rachel,

[01:15:24] I'm very sorry.

[01:15:25] I hope that you can forgive me.

[01:15:28] We'll start with Danielle,

[01:15:30] Dementios.

[01:15:31] This is such a creepy episode.

[01:15:33] I love the tension and the relief when she makes it to the prison that's so

[01:15:36] abruptly taken away.

[01:15:37] I generally dislike Laurie Holden in this role,

[01:15:39] but she is really good in this episode.

[01:15:41] The governor is unhinged.

[01:15:43] I agree with all of that,

[01:15:44] Danielle.

[01:15:45] Yeah,

[01:15:45] me too.

[01:15:45] And that's what I was saying before about like,

[01:15:49] Merle doesn't get the same breaks as Rick because Merle's an annoying asshole and Rick

[01:15:54] is this leader type.

[01:15:55] I feel like that's similar on a meta level with Andrea in this role because she comes off so smug that we don't give her the same grace for a lot.

[01:16:06] I mean,

[01:16:07] she didn't make great decisions all the way through,

[01:16:09] I will admit,

[01:16:09] but I feel like if I try to just look at it objectively that I have more sympathy for her,

[01:16:17] especially during this rewatch than I did last time.

[01:16:20] Overall.

[01:16:20] I would agree with that.

[01:16:21] Yeah.

[01:16:22] Andy Fisher says,

[01:16:24] I'm praying because that was called the prey,

[01:16:26] I guess.

[01:16:27] Dear J.

[01:16:27] Lou,

[01:16:27] I love the theme of fear and courage and pray,

[01:16:30] but I'm so over the governor.

[01:16:32] I love the episodes in the walking dead where characters have to face their fears.

[01:16:36] In this episode,

[01:16:37] several characters are pushed to their breaking points and each one decides to stand their ground in their own way.

[01:16:42] Andrea finally confronts her fear about 20 episodes too late.

[01:16:46] Milton,

[01:16:47] Sasha and Tyrese also faced their fears in this episode in different ways and with different levels of success.

[01:16:53] The walking dead season three does an amazing job of putting its characters in these extreme situations and then turning everything up to 100.

[01:17:01] How do we stand up to evil?

[01:17:02] Are we brave enough?

[01:17:05] American flag,

[01:17:06] five pizzas and a ring.

[01:17:08] And yeah,

[01:17:09] I think about Milton when he says that,

[01:17:10] how Milton was standing up to the governor.

[01:17:14] Milton.

[01:17:15] I like Milton.

[01:17:16] Obviously,

[01:17:16] I've been thinking about Milton a lot this week.

[01:17:18] Yeah.

[01:17:18] You should,

[01:17:19] I recommend going back,

[01:17:21] I don't know if you heard it before,

[01:17:22] but the interview with Dallas Roberts.

[01:17:23] Listen to your interview, right?

[01:17:24] Yes.

[01:17:25] It was so good.

[01:17:26] That was one of my favorite interviews with an actor.

[01:17:28] I fully thought Dallas Roberts and the comedian Mike Birbiglia were the same person for quite a long time.

[01:17:36] So it's good to know,

[01:17:37] A,

[01:17:37] that they're not and B,

[01:17:38] that I should go and check out the interview.

[01:17:40] Yeah,

[01:17:41] I recommend it.

[01:17:42] I'd be interested in what you thought.

[01:17:44] Finally,

[01:17:44] we've got Rachel Teal Edwards who says,

[01:17:46] I don't know if I love this episode or hate it,

[01:17:48] but it always sticks out as one of the most memorable because of how disturbing it is.

[01:17:51] I find myself yelling at Andrea every time.

[01:17:54] Why are you running through an open field?

[01:17:56] Why are you just standing there when you hear his truck coming?

[01:17:58] Hit the deck.

[01:17:59] Why are you going in the building?

[01:18:02] It's like one of those nightmares where you're being chased by a murderer and no matter how fast you try to run,

[01:18:06] you're in slow motion.

[01:18:08] Except instead of being in slow motion,

[01:18:09] you make every terrible decision you could possibly make in trying to evade capture.

[01:18:14] Well,

[01:18:15] let's see.

[01:18:17] I knew you were going to come back to this.

[01:18:19] Yeah,

[01:18:19] I want to know.

[01:18:20] Let's see.

[01:18:21] I mean,

[01:18:21] I don't know what I'm going to say yet,

[01:18:22] but why are you just standing there when you hear his truck coming?

[01:18:26] Hit the deck.

[01:18:27] That's probably a good,

[01:18:28] yeah,

[01:18:28] that's fair.

[01:18:29] Why are you going in the building?

[01:18:31] Well,

[01:18:31] I think you don't want to be out in the open when you're being chased by a vehicle.

[01:18:36] So that sort of made sense.

[01:18:38] Those are the only two things.

[01:18:40] Yeah.

[01:18:42] Why are you running through an open field?

[01:18:44] Why are you just standing there?

[01:18:46] Why are you going in the building?

[01:18:46] For me,

[01:18:47] it's also why didn't you steal the truck?

[01:18:49] Well,

[01:18:49] you don't have the key.

[01:18:50] How are you going to take a car when you don't have the key?

[01:18:53] Well,

[01:18:53] you might have left the keys in it.

[01:18:55] I don't leave the key in my car.

[01:18:56] Hotwire it.

[01:18:57] Wouldn't you've learned to hotwire by this point?

[01:18:59] Maybe,

[01:19:00] but when you've got some psycho chasing you,

[01:19:03] I don't know.

[01:19:04] No,

[01:19:04] this is after she thinks he's dead.

[01:19:06] She's left him in the pile of walkers.

[01:19:07] yeah,

[01:19:08] yeah,

[01:19:08] yeah.

[01:19:08] I guess you could try,

[01:19:09] but maybe she doesn't know how to hotwire her car.

[01:19:12] You love Andrea.

[01:19:14] Stop loving Andrea so much.

[01:19:16] I don't know if it was just you guys or someone else,

[01:19:19] but it might've been just you or two people said,

[01:19:22] why didn't she take the truck?

[01:19:23] And my first thought was,

[01:19:25] why doesn't anyone take any car?

[01:19:26] Cause you don't have the keys.

[01:19:27] I don't know how to hotwire a car.

[01:19:29] Maybe she knew,

[01:19:29] but I don't know.

[01:19:30] I feel like you would learn quickly in the apocalypse how to do it.

[01:19:34] maybe.

[01:19:34] I would,

[01:19:35] that would be one of the first things I'd want to learn.

[01:19:36] We used to have this,

[01:19:37] um,

[01:19:39] Volkswagen van that we had to hotwire every time we wanted to get it started when I was a little kid.

[01:19:44] And now I'm like,

[01:19:45] did my stepdad steal that van?

[01:19:47] I don't think so,

[01:19:48] but you're questioning some stuff.

[01:19:50] Yeah.

[01:19:51] He was a mechanic.

[01:19:52] I don't know.

[01:19:53] Interesting.

[01:19:55] Um,

[01:19:56] Rachel goes on,

[01:19:57] says,

[01:19:57] but it is really suspenseful and a good hour of horror until it ends with the governor magically appearing out of nowhere because once again,

[01:20:03] he's apparently invincible.

[01:20:05] Wait,

[01:20:05] does it take Andrea all night to get to the prison?

[01:20:07] I thought it was only like five miles away.

[01:20:09] This timeline is wonky.

[01:20:10] I do treasure every scene with Tyrese and Sasha though,

[01:20:14] because I love them.

[01:20:15] So I can't wait for their companions to die horrible deaths.

[01:20:18] The way Tyrese says,

[01:20:19] like you looked out for Donna provoking that jackass into a fight.

[01:20:22] So fun to see his temper come out for the first time.

[01:20:25] I love the landscape colors and scenery in this episode.

[01:20:29] Lightfall has such perfect zombie apocalypse vibes.

[01:20:32] Lucy,

[01:20:32] I'm glad you mentioned last week that you're trying to get back into the rewatch mindset after the hiatus.

[01:20:36] I think I'm in the same place and maybe just over season three at this point.

[01:20:40] Ready to move on to much better things in season four.

[01:20:44] Not long there,

[01:20:45] Rachel.

[01:20:46] Are we going to start this side of Christmas?

[01:20:48] Do you think?

[01:20:50] I,

[01:20:51] yeah,

[01:20:51] I,

[01:20:51] uh,

[01:20:52] I think so.

[01:20:52] I was thinking about,

[01:20:54] I don't know.

[01:20:54] My schedule is getting,

[01:20:56] going to get really busy,

[01:20:58] really fast with squid gang coming up and stuff.

[01:21:00] But I was thinking since silo is last time,

[01:21:04] um,

[01:21:05] Veronica and Amelie and I did two episodes,

[01:21:08] one about halfway through and one at the end that,

[01:21:10] maybe after season three,

[01:21:12] we'll break and do that.

[01:21:14] I don't know.

[01:21:15] We'll figure something out.

[01:21:17] Yeah,

[01:21:17] we'll figure it out.

[01:21:18] Yeah.

[01:21:23] All right.

[01:21:24] That is our show.

[01:21:25] So six 15.

[01:21:26] Thanks for listening to everyone.

[01:21:27] Good to be back.

[01:21:29] Yay.

[01:21:29] Next episode.

[01:21:30] It's the season three finale,

[01:21:33] walking dead season three,

[01:21:34] episode 16.

[01:21:34] Welcome to the tombs.

[01:21:36] We're going to,

[01:21:36] uh,

[01:21:37] have Karen on with us to talk about what it was like for her and I to fly out there and be zombies in this episode.

[01:21:44] I actually cannot wait.

[01:21:46] I still,

[01:21:46] I'm still fangirling.

[01:21:48] I like know you guys now,

[01:21:49] but I'm still fangirling.

[01:21:50] I'm still like,

[01:21:51] Oh my God.

[01:21:51] I guess what I'm going to do to podcast.

[01:21:52] I didn't care.

[01:21:53] I didn't.

[01:21:53] We both fangirl over you too.

[01:21:56] So,

[01:21:56] ah,

[01:21:57] it's been like 10 years of mutual fanage.

[01:21:59] Yay.

[01:22:02] If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it,

[01:22:04] you can find all our contact information at podcast.com.

[01:22:08] Yeah.

[01:22:09] And while you're there,

[01:22:10] check out our other podcast.

[01:22:11] One that we just decided to do because Paik and Daphne started watching Skeleton Crew,

[01:22:19] the new Star Wars show with Jude Law and they love it.

[01:22:22] And I'm like,

[01:22:23] how about you guys take a break from Run for Your Lives and cover Skeleton Crew?

[01:22:28] And they said,

[01:22:28] yes.

[01:22:29] So,

[01:22:29] Oh,

[01:22:29] amazing.

[01:22:30] That means,

[01:22:31] um,

[01:22:32] their plan is to have the first episode out covering the first three episodes,

[01:22:38] of that show,

[01:22:38] uh,

[01:22:39] Friday after you hear this.

[01:22:41] So hopefully that'll be out soon.

[01:22:43] Yeah.

[01:22:44] That's exciting.

[01:22:45] Yeah.

[01:22:45] I'm excited.

[01:22:45] I haven't watched it yet,

[01:22:46] but I'm excited to watch it.

[01:22:47] Uh,

[01:22:48] this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Joe Richard,

[01:22:51] who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi.

[01:22:55] So thank you to Joe.

[01:22:57] What are we doing?

[01:22:58] Uh,

[01:22:59] we're,

[01:23:00] I need to schedule it,

[01:23:01] but this month's call in show is supposed to be that one where we play our favorite hip hop

[01:23:07] songs.

[01:23:07] So that's one thing that's coming up in the,

[01:23:10] in Patreon land.

[01:23:12] All right.

[01:23:13] That is our show.

[01:23:14] Thanks for listening.

[01:23:16] Don't get bit Lily Finkel.

[01:23:19] Sorry for spoiling.

[01:23:20] Sorry for ruining the dial show for you.

[01:23:22] Uh,

[01:23:23] it's fine.