616: "Welcome to the Tombs" (TWD S3E16 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] We are Teresa and Nemo and therefore we have to Shopify.

[00:00:03] The platform, the we used before Shopify, has used daily updates, which have been sometimes

[00:00:09] brought to the shop that didn't work.

[00:00:11] Our Nemo Boards Shop makes our mobile devices a good figure and the illustrations on the boards

[00:00:17] come now very clear, what is important to us and what our brand also makes.

[00:00:22] Start your test today for 1€ per month on shopify.de.

[00:00:26] Slash Radio

[00:00:30] Hmm?

[00:00:31] Ah!

[00:00:33] Hmm.

[00:00:35] Podcast to go!

[00:02:00] Hey Zed Hits, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason.

[00:02:03] And I'm Lucy.

[00:02:04] And I'm Karen.

[00:02:06] Woohoo!

[00:02:07] And this is The Cast of Us, episode 616, like the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

[00:02:13] And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, season 3, episode 16, welcome to the tombs.

[00:02:19] Welcome to the tombs, Karen.

[00:02:22] Glad to be here.

[00:02:23] It's kind of dark.

[00:02:24] Before we, yeah, it's kind of cold and musty.

[00:02:26] Before we talk about the episode, Karen is here to talk with us about what it was like

[00:02:34] to be a couple of walkers in this episode, which we were.

[00:02:38] Yep, exactly.

[00:02:39] As we flew out.

[00:02:41] So, we're going to talk about that for a little while and then Karen's going to say

[00:02:46] goodbye and then me and Lucy are going to talk about the episode.

[00:02:48] Yeah.

[00:02:49] So, do you remember how it came to be that we got to go out and do it?

[00:02:55] Yeah, you asked.

[00:02:57] It was as simple as that, right?

[00:02:59] Not really.

[00:03:01] No, that's not true because me and you...

[00:03:04] No, go on.

[00:03:04] I mean, I need to check with you on part of this.

[00:03:07] By the way, I really, I don't think I did it justice, but welcome, Karen.

[00:03:10] It's so good to have you here.

[00:03:11] Thank you.

[00:03:11] I don't think I really gave that the beat that it deserved, but we're so happy you're here.

[00:03:16] Yeah.

[00:03:17] Geeking the fuck out with you.

[00:03:19] Amazing.

[00:03:21] But, um, we had Greg Nicotero on and he said something about, I think it was like they were

[00:03:31] trying to raise money to save the cemetery where they filmed Night of the Living Dead.

[00:03:35] Was that it?

[00:03:36] Or like there's part of the cemetery that they were going to tear down or something like

[00:03:40] that?

[00:03:41] Evansville.

[00:03:41] In, yeah, in outside Pittsburgh.

[00:03:44] Yeah.

[00:03:44] That seems right.

[00:03:45] That seems right.

[00:03:46] And you were like really helpful.

[00:03:49] I, like, that's the difference between you and me sometimes.

[00:03:52] You're like, oh yeah, we'll talk about it.

[00:03:54] We'll promote it for you.

[00:03:55] We'll, you know, mention your website or something like that.

[00:04:00] And I think he really appreciated that.

[00:04:02] So when we were done with the interview, he was like, so when are you guys going to come

[00:04:06] out and be zombies?

[00:04:09] Oh, I didn't.

[00:04:10] And we're like, whatever you want.

[00:04:12] And then I had to kind of badger him.

[00:04:15] But because he had made the offer, it ended up happening.

[00:04:18] Finally, it took like months and months.

[00:04:21] And it was a team effort.

[00:04:23] Yeah.

[00:04:23] I like it.

[00:04:24] It was all because of Karen.

[00:04:25] We double, we double teamed him and badgered Greg Nicotero into letting us do it.

[00:04:31] I don't think he would have made that offer if you hadn't been so generous with him,

[00:04:35] you know?

[00:04:36] So.

[00:04:37] I love that.

[00:04:38] That's one of the places I want to go visit when I'm in Pittsburgh is the cemetery.

[00:04:42] Yeah.

[00:04:42] I think we, I forget if we'd mentioned it on the podcast, but Karen and David are moving

[00:04:46] to Pittsburgh.

[00:04:47] We are.

[00:04:48] To be, go to the mall and shuffle around.

[00:04:54] It's the American way.

[00:04:55] It's the American way.

[00:04:56] I don't see you in person much anymore anyway, but I'm still kind of clumped.

[00:05:02] We are going to see each other on Sunday.

[00:05:07] Do you want to say what we're going to do on Sunday?

[00:05:08] Yeah.

[00:05:09] We're going to have a whiskey tasting because I've been going nuts buying whiskey.

[00:05:13] So David and Karen are going to come over.

[00:05:15] Oh, amazing.

[00:05:16] We're having, we're having old fashioned whiskey tasting.

[00:05:20] And it would, the only thing that would make it better is if Lucy and Peter could magically

[00:05:26] be there with us.

[00:05:27] I know.

[00:05:28] Ironically Sunday is my day off, but I think the round trip would eat up most of my day.

[00:05:34] We can hop on zoom and you guys can.

[00:05:37] Yes.

[00:05:37] Taste some whiskey with us.

[00:05:40] Amazing.

[00:05:40] Um, so back to the zombie thing.

[00:05:44] Um, I'm going to just talk a little bit about part of my experience and you hop in if you

[00:05:50] want.

[00:05:50] Okay.

[00:05:51] Uh, so it turned out the first time, which I talked about during the rewatch for season

[00:05:58] two finale was a lot different.

[00:06:00] It was four nights of 16 hour shooting.

[00:06:02] I was there with Gracie Lou and 98 other zombie extras.

[00:06:07] And we all hung out together and it was like kind of a, a social scene with a bunch of rotting

[00:06:13] corpses chatting it up.

[00:06:16] But this was much different.

[00:06:17] It was, they needed way less zombies.

[00:06:19] And I was only, I was there, I think for two days and you were there for one day, but

[00:06:22] we, we crossed paths, I think at the airport, but we weren't there together, which was a

[00:06:27] bummer.

[00:06:27] It would have been so much more fun if we could have done it together.

[00:06:29] So we weren't even there at the same time.

[00:06:32] No, we weren't.

[00:06:33] So it's kind of lonely.

[00:06:34] So, but when I was there, uh, Greg Nicotero had said, I can't wait for a long time.

[00:06:37] I could be a hero zombie.

[00:06:38] I don't know if you guys remember, but there's three levels of zombies.

[00:06:41] There's one in the very back who just wear masks because you can't see them very much.

[00:06:45] And there's mid ground where they kind of give you spray down and spackle and stuff,

[00:06:49] but they don't give you the full prosthetics.

[00:06:51] And then there's the hero zombie where you get a prosthetic makeup.

[00:06:54] And so I kind of sheepishly said, um, I, Greg Nicotero said I could be a hero.

[00:06:59] And they're like, Oh, Oh, okay.

[00:07:01] Okay.

[00:07:01] So they took me to the makeup.

[00:07:03] Um, there's a trailer trailer.

[00:07:06] Yeah.

[00:07:06] With three different guys, makeup guys making up three walkers at a time.

[00:07:12] Or at least this is how I remember.

[00:07:14] It's been like 12 years now.

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:16] And, uh, so I sat there for three hours, but the kind of heartbreak of it for me is I usually

[00:07:23] have like scruff on my face, you know, like part of a beard and I wouldn't call this a full

[00:07:28] beard, but anyway, they asked me, yeah, partial.

[00:07:32] I don't know.

[00:07:32] They asked me if I wanted to, um, shave and I was like, sure.

[00:07:37] And they go, you can keep it if you want.

[00:07:38] It's okay either way.

[00:07:39] And I'm like, Oh, well then I'll keep it.

[00:07:41] And then when they did the makeup, it turned out it was kind of halfway between a hero and

[00:07:47] a mid ground.

[00:07:48] They didn't really give me the full treatment.

[00:07:50] And I wonder if I would have shaped, which I totally would have if I knew that was going

[00:07:53] to make a difference.

[00:07:54] And there were two other people and one of them was a guy and he got a really gory looking

[00:07:58] one.

[00:07:59] And then there was this beautiful woman there who turned into the ugliest zombie I'd ever

[00:08:04] seen.

[00:08:04] That was so cool.

[00:08:06] Awesome.

[00:08:06] It was funny to see her after that, you know, just.

[00:08:09] See, like it was kind of reminds me of when Tom Cruise was in that one movie where he played

[00:08:13] this pudgy manager guy with lots of.

[00:08:16] Tropic Thunder.

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:17] Tropic Thunder.

[00:08:17] But you could, I didn't even know it was Tom Cruise, but I'm like, there's something

[00:08:20] going on with this guy cause he's carrying himself in a way that doesn't match how he

[00:08:23] looks.

[00:08:24] And that's how it was with this woman, you know, walking around like a beautiful woman.

[00:08:28] Anyways.

[00:08:29] Um, so then when this photographer came out up to us, uh, the guy who would take a lot of

[00:08:35] still photos and he's like, Oh, can I?

[00:08:37] And he went, went to take a picture and then he kind of, um, I'm going to

[00:08:39] point it at me and goes, not you.

[00:08:42] Oh, I wasn't ugly enough.

[00:08:46] So that was kind of a moment.

[00:08:48] That's one thing I remember.

[00:08:49] You got to do the makeup trailer.

[00:08:51] Oh yeah.

[00:08:52] I loved it.

[00:08:53] I loved it.

[00:08:53] Uh, yeah.

[00:08:54] I got to be in the makeup trailer also.

[00:08:56] And I wasn't a hero zombie, but I got the full makeup treatment and I think the makeup

[00:09:01] trailer was actually the best part of the whole thing because the makeup guys are the

[00:09:06] coolest.

[00:09:07] They were so fun.

[00:09:09] Uh, and it was so great being in the makeup trailer, the blasting music.

[00:09:13] Yeah.

[00:09:14] And it was early morning.

[00:09:15] I mean, we had to get there at like dark o'clock, like 6 AM or some crazy call.

[00:09:21] Um, so you get there really early for the makeup call.

[00:09:25] And so having the, having the makeup was fabulous.

[00:09:32] I mean, I loved like, okay.

[00:09:34] Usually when you put makeup on, it's like to make you pretty.

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] And this time it was sit down and okay, make me hideous.

[00:09:41] And it was awesome.

[00:09:43] They made me particularly hideous.

[00:09:46] And because I have, I had at the time much longer blonde hair.

[00:09:50] And I said, what are you going to do about the hair?

[00:09:51] And they're like, Oh, don't worry.

[00:09:53] We've got something for you.

[00:09:54] And they had this stuff that's like a mud kind of stuff.

[00:09:58] And yeah, it was this dark muddy stuff.

[00:10:01] And they sort of, uh, gently worked it through my hair and it was quite something.

[00:10:08] I was fishing that stuff out of my hair for a while, even though I went right home and

[00:10:12] showered.

[00:10:13] It's the downside.

[00:10:13] It's hard to get all that gunk off.

[00:10:15] You gotta really scrub it.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] Uh, taking the makeup off at the end of the day, they give you cans of shaving

[00:10:21] cream.

[00:10:22] Do you remember that?

[00:10:23] And you use the shaving cream somehow to get the makeup off.

[00:10:27] Just scrub it.

[00:10:27] Scrub.

[00:10:28] Yeah.

[00:10:28] Put it on.

[00:10:29] Yeah.

[00:10:30] That's like, they don't give you a bar of soap.

[00:10:32] They're like, here's shaving cream to make up material somehow.

[00:10:37] Yeah.

[00:10:37] You gotta really make sure you, cause like I was, I think I said this on the podcast for

[00:10:41] number for the season two one, but we'd all cause there were so many of us, we'd

[00:10:46] all like stand around these troughs and be scrubbing on ourselves afterwards.

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:50] And then I went to McDonald's, but I didn't do a very good job one of the nights cause

[00:10:54] they were looking at me funny.

[00:10:55] And when I got back to the hotel, I could see there was a big thing of blood on my neck.

[00:11:00] Still.

[00:11:01] I had makeup in my ear that I had missed and yeah, it was, it was pretty gnarly, but that

[00:11:07] was really fun.

[00:11:08] I loved, I love the vibes in the makeup trailer and I loved being, um, being made hideous.

[00:11:14] And then they tell you, you can't take photos of yourself.

[00:11:18] And I thought, well, can't I?

[00:11:22] So I took my cell phone, went into the bathroom, a bathroom stall.

[00:11:26] And I was like, I'm just going to take pictures of myself here just for my own use.

[00:11:30] I don't want to, I didn't just, don't worry.

[00:11:33] I didn't distribute the photos, but I did want a record of, of.

[00:11:38] Do you know what percentage of zombie extras on the walking dead?

[00:11:42] I would guess do what you did.

[00:11:44] I would guess 100%.

[00:11:46] Yeah.

[00:11:47] Yeah.

[00:11:48] Cause I did too.

[00:11:50] They didn't until, I think they started taking away cell phones after a while.

[00:11:53] I think I heard that.

[00:11:54] Smart.

[00:11:55] Smart.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:56] And zombies can't be trusted.

[00:11:58] Yeah.

[00:11:58] That's for sure.

[00:11:59] If we've learned one thing.

[00:12:01] Yeah.

[00:12:01] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Did you have fun chatting with the other zombies?

[00:12:06] Uh, I see.

[00:12:07] I remember having more fun on the second, second season one on the third season.

[00:12:13] I just remember us kind of sitting around reading and not.

[00:12:17] We chatted some, I remember talking with this one guy who was a bartender in, uh, like

[00:12:23] Senoy or something.

[00:12:24] And he said, Danai Gurira came in one night and she was fine.

[00:12:30] It's fabulous.

[00:12:32] I love it.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] I, I think, yeah, it felt, I just remember it feeling kind of lonely.

[00:12:38] I don't know, but you did.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:39] I loved it.

[00:12:40] Um, I talked to them and kind of used it as sort of a, uh, opportunity to get material

[00:12:46] for the podcast.

[00:12:47] So I talked to a couple of them.

[00:12:50] There's one in particular, a guy who's really skinny, like really, really, really skinny.

[00:12:57] They like the skinny ones.

[00:12:57] They do because they look like emaciated zombies.

[00:13:01] And so, uh, this really, really skinny guy and I had a great time talking.

[00:13:06] We had so much fun, uh, chatting and then a couple others sort of joined in and that

[00:13:11] was really nice.

[00:13:12] And then at one point they had us in a field and, um, because it was when, uh, it's all

[00:13:18] when the governors and his men came in to attack the prison.

[00:13:22] Right.

[00:13:22] That's both of us.

[00:13:23] Yeah, exactly.

[00:13:24] And so at one point it was, um, because it was winter, I want to say, wasn't it winter?

[00:13:31] Or at least it was.

[00:13:32] I think it was.

[00:13:33] Yeah.

[00:13:33] I think it was too.

[00:13:34] I think it was like January or February.

[00:13:36] It was some, it was cold.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:37] And I remember sitting in the sunshine in the field.

[00:13:41] This was in, uh, Senoi, right?

[00:13:43] Senoi?

[00:13:44] Or was it?

[00:13:45] Yeah.

[00:13:45] Yeah.

[00:13:46] Our hotel was in Peachtree City or your hotel that I ended up staying at the same hotel,

[00:13:51] um, was in Peachtree City, but Senoi is not that far away.

[00:13:54] And, um, yeah, it was nice.

[00:13:56] I was in a field and it was sunny.

[00:13:58] I was hanging out with other zombies and then I saw laying on the ground.

[00:14:03] I'm like, is that Greg Nicotero?

[00:14:06] And it was Greg Nicotero's body double.

[00:14:11] It was so cool.

[00:14:13] Because there were a lot of dummies laying around just because so many zombies got shot

[00:14:17] so they just have dummies.

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:20] Right, right, right.

[00:14:20] It was the Greg Nicotero created, um, uh, you know, uh, yeah, dummy.

[00:14:27] It was so lifelike.

[00:14:30] I went down and looked at it.

[00:14:32] I was like, oh, this really looks like a dead person.

[00:14:34] It was creepy looking.

[00:14:37] It is very, very, very cool.

[00:14:39] And, uh, yeah, being in the field was, and talking to the other Zeds was really fun.

[00:14:43] But then one of the stories I remember the most is you saw the real Greg Nicotero.

[00:14:49] Wait, no, you saw Andrew Lincoln.

[00:14:51] I saw Andrew Lincoln.

[00:14:52] Go ahead.

[00:14:53] Tell that.

[00:14:53] Well, you tell it.

[00:14:54] So we were brought at one point we were in the, uh, in the break room, uh, in between,

[00:15:01] um, shots and they were like, okay, zombies, we need you down at the field.

[00:15:07] Um, follow me.

[00:15:08] So it was like we were this little, little line of zombies following one of the, um, the

[00:15:14] assistant directors.

[00:15:16] And, uh, we got down or production assistants, whatever they're called.

[00:15:19] And we passed the cast and I see Andrew Lincoln.

[00:15:23] And so I saw Andrew Lincoln caught his eye.

[00:15:27] I waved and then I blew him a kiss.

[00:15:32] And he laughed.

[00:15:33] And that made me so happy.

[00:15:35] That's so funny.

[00:15:36] Oh, I love that.

[00:15:37] And I know he, he loved that.

[00:15:39] Cause he's just the kind of guy that would totally get a kick out of that.

[00:15:42] Zombie.

[00:15:43] Like, hi there, handsome.

[00:15:45] That's so great.

[00:15:47] I'm so glad you did that.

[00:15:48] But just that alone made for me, made it worth it that you went out there because I

[00:15:55] don't even know if you're, if you got in it.

[00:15:57] Do you?

[00:15:58] I didn't.

[00:15:59] I never saw myself now.

[00:16:00] You never, I thought maybe you might've seen yourself off in the distance, but it seems

[00:16:04] like your scenes maybe got cut or something.

[00:16:06] Maybe.

[00:16:07] I mean, you, there's probably, there's a moment where there are a group of zombies

[00:16:13] at a fence.

[00:16:14] And I know that I was in that group of zombies by the fence that they showed, but it's not

[00:16:19] like you can identify me as me.

[00:16:21] So no.

[00:16:22] It's kind of far away.

[00:16:23] Mm hmm.

[00:16:23] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Yeah.

[00:16:24] Even though they gave me a little bonus, a falling bonus for getting shot.

[00:16:28] 50 bucks.

[00:16:29] You got 50 bucks.

[00:16:31] Wow.

[00:16:32] Yeah.

[00:16:32] If you, if you fall, if you know, okay, everybody fall down.

[00:16:36] And if you fall, they give you an extra $50.

[00:16:40] That was new that year that I fell the year before didn't get anything, but that year.

[00:16:43] Yeah.

[00:16:44] We got the falling bonus.

[00:16:46] So where can we see you Jason?

[00:16:49] Cause I tried to spot you in this episode and I couldn't.

[00:16:52] Really?

[00:16:53] Uh, well, really.

[00:16:55] I'm going to talk about that.

[00:16:56] Well, the reason why I say it like that is because after this episode, um, I got a message

[00:17:06] from my friend the next day who I hadn't spoken to in a while.

[00:17:10] And he said, were you on the walking dead last night?

[00:17:13] Really?

[00:17:14] Yeah.

[00:17:14] That's funny.

[00:17:16] Wow.

[00:17:16] That's amazing.

[00:17:17] This.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:18] I was the most visible in this scene than anything.

[00:17:24] Let's see.

[00:17:25] Uh, I'm trying to find a picture here.

[00:17:28] Hold on one second.

[00:17:29] Do, do, do.

[00:17:30] Okay.

[00:17:30] There we go.

[00:17:31] See?

[00:17:31] Oh, wow.

[00:17:33] Yeah.

[00:17:34] There's you.

[00:17:35] There's Jason.

[00:17:36] By some random Woodbury guy.

[00:17:38] So.

[00:17:38] Some jerk shooting you.

[00:17:40] Yeah.

[00:17:41] Those rat bastards.

[00:17:42] Whatever.

[00:17:43] So you put me out of my misery.

[00:17:44] It was kind of nice.

[00:17:45] Um, so there was two, two things.

[00:17:47] So I guess I was there for two days and one day I was a hero.

[00:17:50] And this day that I just showed you, I was, I was mid ground, which meant just like spray

[00:17:55] paint and spackle and stuff.

[00:17:57] And on the hero day I was in the prison and it looked, they make it look like there's this

[00:18:03] whole labyrinth of hallways, but really it's like one L shaped hallway that they shoot all

[00:18:08] those scenes in, or maybe a little bit more than that, but not much.

[00:18:11] And, um, the governor's men came in and started shooting up the place.

[00:18:18] And, uh, we had to shamble around a corner and get shot me and a couple other zombies.

[00:18:24] And a couple of the production guys are like, Hey, do you want to, you want to fall

[00:18:28] down in the scene?

[00:18:29] And I'm like, yeah.

[00:18:30] And he goes, they're like, can you fall?

[00:18:32] So your head lands right here.

[00:18:34] And they pointed at this one little specific spot and, uh, they put some cardboard down

[00:18:39] there and I'm like, I don't know.

[00:18:41] I hope I can do it.

[00:18:42] Like I said, yes, you always say yes, but I didn't want to fuck it up.

[00:18:46] And, um, so I go down in the corner, get shot, fall down.

[00:18:49] And then when I, um, got up and looked over at the guys, they were like thumbs up.

[00:18:54] Yes, that was perfect.

[00:18:56] So I was so happy.

[00:18:57] And then you can see it too.

[00:18:59] Uh, it's 20.

[00:19:02] Oh shoot.

[00:19:02] I wrote it down, but I forgot 23 minutes in you see them shoot and you see my head.

[00:19:07] It's like less than a second, but I go slam down on the ground and then they put a bunch

[00:19:11] of CG blood and gunk just splattering on the ground next to me.

[00:19:16] It's pretty cool.

[00:19:18] Did you, did you do the head snap?

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:21] And you know, I felt the only thing you can see on my face, I'm like, oh, like maybe a

[00:19:25] little bit too much of an expression for a mindless zombie.

[00:19:29] But, um, zombies don't like getting shot.

[00:19:32] So happy.

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:34] Um, and then the other one, um, standing.

[00:19:37] So the governor and his men come in and then they kind of parked their trucks and they

[00:19:42] just start shooting all the, they explode the guard towers.

[00:19:46] Um, and, um, I remember they actually did blow up the guard towers and there was fire there,

[00:19:53] but then they added more explosiveness and CG afterwards.

[00:19:57] So it wasn't quite as majestic as that.

[00:19:59] And, um, then they, you know, park that truck and start machine gunning all of us.

[00:20:03] And you can see me there.

[00:20:05] I shamble up a little bit and then I get shot in the head and my head snaps back and I fall.

[00:20:10] And, uh, so those are the two times in this one.

[00:20:13] Yes.

[00:20:13] And so that's season three.

[00:20:16] Season two was the barn burning, right?

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:19] And I was in a bunch of different places in that one.

[00:20:22] Yeah, you were.

[00:20:23] We, we are, we did a whole episode with that.

[00:20:26] Gracie Lou came on and we talked all about it.

[00:20:28] It was really fun, but I want to see what else about this one.

[00:20:32] You mentioned something about being shunned.

[00:20:35] Yes.

[00:20:36] What was that?

[00:20:36] I don't know what you mean.

[00:20:38] I mean, the rest of the cast, when we had like lunch,

[00:20:43] or any kind of breaks, um, the other zombies were very accepting of me.

[00:20:49] And somehow the normal looking people, the beautiful people, the regulars, they avoided the zombies.

[00:20:58] They avoided the extras.

[00:21:00] And it was weird.

[00:21:02] Very, very.

[00:21:04] Yeah.

[00:21:05] I mean, maybe that's it.

[00:21:06] It was really strange.

[00:21:07] I felt like, why, why don't you like me?

[00:21:10] What, you know, normally I'm like, Hey, how's it going?

[00:21:12] But they were not into, they were not buying what I was selling.

[00:21:16] And I'm like, well, I am a zombie.

[00:21:19] So maybe it, there's just a little thing in the back of their head.

[00:21:22] They're like, were there like other extras, Woodbury people?

[00:21:27] Or was it like, Oh yeah, there's tons of Woodbury people.

[00:21:30] And they were, those guys are assholes.

[00:21:32] Yeah.

[00:21:33] They were total assholes.

[00:21:34] They were avoiding you.

[00:21:35] Okay.

[00:21:35] Yeah.

[00:21:35] I'm guessing.

[00:21:36] Yeah.

[00:21:37] It's so interesting.

[00:21:38] It's like when you go to prison and you end up with, you know, whatever ethnic background

[00:21:42] you are, I feel like it's that kind of force at play, you know, but also, I mean, so another

[00:21:47] force at play that I definitely noticed when I was there on second, the second season

[00:21:52] is there's just this sort of class hierarchy in Hollywood.

[00:21:59] And if you're an extra, you're a piece of dirt and, and not everyone acts that way.

[00:22:06] Andrew Lincoln definitely didn't.

[00:22:07] Nope.

[00:22:07] He was super nice to us, but like even when one of the, um, the person managing the extra

[00:22:13] said, Oh, you can go eat at this nicer place today.

[00:22:15] They have extra food or something.

[00:22:16] So I went over there and I asked for something and they're like, Oh no, no, no, not here over

[00:22:20] there where the hot dogs are or something like that.

[00:22:22] Right.

[00:22:23] And then I was like, okay, okay.

[00:22:24] And he goes, um, I'm sorry about that.

[00:22:26] And then as I was walking away, he says, his friend, actually, I'm not sorry.

[00:22:29] And I'm like, I can still hear you assholes.

[00:22:31] Like, geez, you know, there was just a little bit of that kind of vibe.

[00:22:34] And then also when I spoke up about something during the filming, like Herschel was supposed

[00:22:39] to be shooting five of us, but he was only firing four times and we did it, went through

[00:22:44] it a couple of times just to rehearse it.

[00:22:46] And so I raised my hand and I'm like, I don't know if I should fall down because he's

[00:22:50] only shooting four times, but I'm the fifth zombie.

[00:22:52] And she's like, are you telling me?

[00:22:53] I don't know how to do my job.

[00:22:54] And then that's when I realized you're not supposed to say anything, you know, but I

[00:22:58] don't like that, man.

[00:22:59] That's why I could never make it in Hollywood because I feel like I have something to add

[00:23:03] sometimes and I want to be able to fucking add it.

[00:23:05] Do you know what I mean?

[00:23:09] So, but I just shut the hell up after that, of course.

[00:23:11] Yeah.

[00:23:12] And then, um, when I walked, I stumbled out into a scene and the same director who yelled

[00:23:18] at me was like, that's like the best zombie walk I've ever seen.

[00:23:21] And I think she was just trying to realize that she was a bit harsh.

[00:23:24] So she was trying to make me feel better.

[00:23:25] So then all the zombies who had ignored me after she kind of chewed me out cause they

[00:23:30] didn't want to have anything to do with me.

[00:23:31] Then she said I was the best one ever.

[00:23:34] And then they're like, how did you do that?

[00:23:35] What were you doing?

[00:23:36] You know, so there's all this weird like associations and I just don't like the feeling

[00:23:43] of having to suck up to people and being treated badly because of your status and all that kind

[00:23:49] of stuff.

[00:23:49] And I think those, the moments I just mentioned, that was the full breadth of anything I experienced

[00:23:58] like that.

[00:23:58] It wasn't like it was like that the whole time.

[00:24:01] Most people were really nice.

[00:24:02] I even saw Steven Yeun in the cafeteria and I walked over to him, even though I knew it

[00:24:06] was probably taboo.

[00:24:07] And I'm like, Hey, it's me, Jason.

[00:24:09] We've interviewed a couple of times and he's like, Oh yeah, what's up, man?

[00:24:12] He was super nice.

[00:24:13] You know, was he the one that told you to go and get a hot dog?

[00:24:16] No, no, no.

[00:24:18] You can do it.

[00:24:18] I promise.

[00:24:19] It's great.

[00:24:20] Steven Yeun's like, he's the only one that I like identified myself to as Jason of the

[00:24:29] Milwaukee dead cast the whole time I was filming.

[00:24:32] Cause I didn't want to bother anybody or anything, but he was right there and it was lunchtime.

[00:24:36] So I figured why not say hi?

[00:24:38] And he was really nice about it.

[00:24:39] And he's also lovely.

[00:24:41] Yes.

[00:24:42] He's dreamy.

[00:24:43] Love him.

[00:24:44] I'm trying to think of anything else.

[00:24:46] Um, I was kind of bummed that this episode didn't go over super well with people.

[00:24:53] Uh, people seem to be a little disappointed.

[00:24:55] I think it was because they thought this was going to be like the climax with the governor

[00:25:00] and it turned out not to be, you know, he was still alive at the end.

[00:25:06] Um, and, uh, the other thing I wrote down to mention is when we interviewed Andrew, Andrew

[00:25:10] Lincoln for our hundredth episode, I mentioned I'd been in the season two and season three finales

[00:25:15] and he was like, Oh my God, that's great.

[00:25:17] You should try to be in all the finales.

[00:25:18] So there was the most beautiful zombie woman.

[00:25:21] She blew a kiss at me.

[00:25:22] Do you know her?

[00:25:23] You know, or I've been looking for her.

[00:25:26] Tell her I'll never forget.

[00:25:31] Lucy, would you be a zombie if you could?

[00:25:33] I would love to be.

[00:25:35] Yes.

[00:25:35] I would really, really love to be.

[00:25:38] Um, yeah, that would be really fun.

[00:25:40] I think that'd be cool to turn up as an extra in something.

[00:25:43] Have you ever done any extra work?

[00:25:45] No, never.

[00:25:47] They didn't.

[00:25:47] Honestly, there's not a big filming scene.

[00:25:50] Well, there wasn't in Scotland when I was growing up where I was.

[00:25:53] Now they film a lot of stuff near Glasgow and the BBC and Scotland has expanded and things

[00:25:59] like that.

[00:26:00] Like they were filming near the Kelpies where we all drove to see the Kelpies and the Falkirk

[00:26:05] wheel.

[00:26:06] I think Good Omens is filmed near there and things like that.

[00:26:09] So there's more happening now.

[00:26:11] I did get offered once.

[00:26:14] Um, when I was, I was walking from my apartment to do one of my ghost tours and they were filming.

[00:26:19] It was a really bad film actually in the end.

[00:26:22] Uh, it was the comedy film of Birkin here, the body snatchers.

[00:26:26] And it was supposed to be David Tennant and someone.

[00:26:30] And I think it ended up being like Simon Pegg and Andy Zirkus or something.

[00:26:34] And I was peering over and the guy said, well, you're basically in costume.

[00:26:37] Come back later and you can be in the background if you want.

[00:26:40] But I never did it.

[00:26:42] Cause he seemed a bit dodgy.

[00:26:43] I'm glad because the film was terrible, but it was quite cool.

[00:26:47] So occasionally in Edinburgh you would see filming, but I never took part.

[00:26:50] So there's so many, uh, crime shows based in England and tons, tons in like Yorkshire

[00:27:00] area.

[00:27:01] Um, it seems like that.

[00:27:03] I mean that lots of opportunities.

[00:27:06] We were in Scotland.

[00:27:08] Andrew Lincoln was filming a show there and I, he was filming in Glasgow, right?

[00:27:12] I see a film crew at one point and wondered, is that his, should I be hanging out here?

[00:27:16] But, um, we didn't run into him.

[00:27:18] And then the next, I don't know if it was next week, but sometime soon after, uh, Lucy

[00:27:23] ran into Norman Reedus at a hotel in her robe.

[00:27:25] In Spain!

[00:27:26] Yeah!

[00:27:27] That's right!

[00:27:28] That's so funny!

[00:27:29] I was like, ah!

[00:27:30] I keep forgetting that that happened.

[00:27:33] That's insane, man.

[00:27:33] What are the chances of that?

[00:27:35] It sounds so made up.

[00:27:37] I was like, everyone listens to the podcast and be like, okay, yeah, uh-huh.

[00:27:41] And then what happened?

[00:27:42] Did Andrew Lincoln come do it?

[00:27:43] And I'm like, literally, he was in Alicante.

[00:27:47] It was really weird.

[00:27:48] I, you couldn't have written it.

[00:27:50] I, I can't believe it was the one time on that holiday I didn't have my phone with me,

[00:27:54] but anyway, yeah, he was very nice.

[00:27:56] Um, but it's funny.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:58] It was just of all the places in all the world to be, it was very strange.

[00:28:02] Very strange.

[00:28:03] I love that.

[00:28:04] I know.

[00:28:06] Uh, two more things.

[00:28:07] So, I, I just remembered a lot of my stuff was just shambling around outside the prison

[00:28:14] and getting shot outside the prison.

[00:28:16] And I remember just standing there while they were setting shots up a lot.

[00:28:20] And David Morrissey was out there just standing by himself in his, you know, that quilted vest

[00:28:24] that the governor wears.

[00:28:26] Yeah.

[00:28:26] And, uh, he didn't have the big jacket on.

[00:28:28] I think he just had the vest.

[00:28:30] I think that's what I remember.

[00:28:32] God, that was so long ago.

[00:28:33] Anyway.

[00:28:34] Um, but he was, I think kind of staying in character.

[00:28:39] He had this really steely vibe about him.

[00:28:44] And, uh, so I felt intimidated a little bit, not seriously, but I didn't want to go over

[00:28:51] and break his concentration or anything like that.

[00:28:53] No way.

[00:28:54] But I was very close to him and, you know, just kind of trying not to seem like I was looking

[00:28:58] at him or anything.

[00:28:59] And, uh, and then, uh, I met him at Walker Stalker a couple of times after that.

[00:29:04] And he was just so, his vibe was so different.

[00:29:06] He was just so nice and accommodating and friendly and everything, but he was the governor on set.

[00:29:11] Yeah.

[00:29:12] He was, I remember I saw him too, but he was, I only saw him sort of at a distance running

[00:29:18] with a gun, which was fun actually.

[00:29:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:24] Did you see other cast members?

[00:29:26] Oh, I saw all of them.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:29] They were all outside and they, at some, that was the, um, they blew up something.

[00:29:35] They blew up the guard towers at one point.

[00:29:38] Yeah.

[00:29:39] Yeah.

[00:29:39] Yeah.

[00:29:40] And they had to sort of, you know, um, give a big warning about that.

[00:29:44] Hey, this is going to blow up.

[00:29:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:45] It was fun.

[00:29:46] Yeah.

[00:29:46] They were usually pretty good about that.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] And, uh, oh, one other thing, uh, they, you're, if you're wondering how can you have like a

[00:29:54] nice, healthy smile and be a zombie?

[00:29:56] The answer is they put drops of this black dye in your mouth to give you a nice black mouth.

[00:30:06] And it's gross because it gets all over your gums and all over your tongue and then all the,

[00:30:11] and kind of in between your teeth.

[00:30:12] And then you get that great zombie mouth look.

[00:30:15] What does it taste like?

[00:30:17] Nothing.

[00:30:18] I don't think.

[00:30:19] I don't remember.

[00:30:20] I can't remember.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:21] Yeah.

[00:30:21] You don't remember that?

[00:30:23] No, I remember the black stuff, but I can't remember what it tasted like.

[00:30:26] And it wears off.

[00:30:27] I mean, obviously it wears off pretty fast.

[00:30:29] So I still have mine.

[00:30:31] There, there's, there's a, I remember a production assistant person just walking around from zombie

[00:30:36] and I'll be giving you drops in your mouth.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:40] Here you go.

[00:30:41] Here's the black tongue.

[00:30:42] It's amazing.

[00:30:43] Yeah.

[00:30:43] And then if you were really close, they would put in contact sometimes, but they, from what

[00:30:49] I heard, I never got them, but they were like a total pain to wear and I couldn't see

[00:30:55] very well.

[00:30:55] And I wonder, I wonder how much of this gets, um, done in post now.

[00:31:01] Yeah.

[00:31:02] I mean, I, I, there's at least twice one in season two and one in season three where

[00:31:08] you can see blood and junk coming off of me that they put in post.

[00:31:13] And I just feel honored that someone took the time to do that.

[00:31:17] You know, I don't know.

[00:31:17] It's kind of silly.

[00:31:18] Of course they're going to do it, but I got such a kick out of seeing it.

[00:31:22] And then just watching the episode last night to prepare for the podcast, it was pretty

[00:31:26] surreal after all this time to see, Oh, there's me.

[00:31:29] Like I wasn't even thinking about me being in it and all of a sudden I'm on the screen.

[00:31:33] That's so cool.

[00:31:35] That is so, it must be so weird.

[00:31:37] Walking, watching it back and being like, yep.

[00:31:40] I remember that.

[00:31:42] It's always, it's always good.

[00:31:44] If you're playing two truths and a lie, it's always good to, you know, I was a zombie

[00:31:50] on the walking dead.

[00:31:51] Like how random is that?

[00:31:54] It's a good one to use.

[00:31:55] I love that.

[00:31:57] So before we go on to the next segment or say goodbye to Karen and go on, Randy called

[00:32:02] in and I listened to just a little bit and I saw he said hi to you.

[00:32:05] So I'm going to play that call.

[00:32:06] Thank you.

[00:32:07] During this part.

[00:32:08] Here we go.

[00:32:08] Hey, Jason, Lucy and special guest, Karen.

[00:32:13] It's Randy from just outside of your bedroom window.

[00:32:18] When you think nobody's watching.

[00:32:20] I'm so excited that Karen is on this episode, Karen.

[00:32:24] Everything you've said so far has been correct.

[00:32:26] Perfect.

[00:32:27] No matter what the other two say.

[00:32:30] I just wanted to drop in a little bit of trivia.

[00:32:33] I noticed from last week's episode.

[00:32:36] We see Merle is listening to the song fast and loose by motorhead while he's drinking and

[00:32:43] luring the walkers to the fight with the governor.

[00:32:46] Well, in season 11, Judith gets a record from princesses record shop and shows it to shows

[00:32:55] it to Daryl and asks if he's ever heard of motorhead.

[00:32:59] And he says, yeah, it's good stuff.

[00:33:01] Later, Daryl buys Judith, the record player, and then they listen to the album together,

[00:33:06] specifically the song eat the rich, which seems perfect for that season.

[00:33:11] But clearly this whole interaction was a nod to Daryl's history with Merle.

[00:33:19] That's amazing.

[00:33:20] I do have one zombie experience question for Jason and Karen.

[00:33:26] Did either of you as zombies kill any of the human characters?

[00:33:32] And if so, who has the higher kill count?

[00:33:36] I mean, even if you manage to kill people and it never ended up on film, I'd love to know.

[00:33:43] I'll take my answer off the air.

[00:33:46] Thanks.

[00:33:47] Bye.

[00:33:48] Bye.

[00:33:50] Randy.

[00:33:51] Great.

[00:33:52] My kill count is that I'm, I think I would be more proud if I'd killed other people,

[00:33:58] but I was also proud every time I got killed and it was at least five times because I'd always volunteer every time they asked for somebody to be shot, you know?

[00:34:07] Yeah.

[00:34:07] Yeah.

[00:34:08] I, I was killed a couple times.

[00:34:10] I mean, I was shot a couple times and fell down, but as we've said, did not make it to pass the cutting room floor.

[00:34:18] Uh, but did you never killed a human?

[00:34:21] No, the closest I got was when they all ate Patricia, you know, they pulled her away from whoever was dragging her out of there.

[00:34:32] Was it Beth or I forget who's, who was Patricia's handhold?

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:37] And then, um, I was, I got to, you know, get down on my knees and start munching down on her with everybody else.

[00:34:44] Although it was a, it was a dummy at that point.

[00:34:47] And I actually did bite it, which was a dumb thing to do cause it was all dirty and you didn't need to do that.

[00:34:52] But I was getting too much into character, I guess.

[00:34:56] Channeling your inner zombie.

[00:34:58] So that's the closest I came, gnawing on a person who is probably already dead.

[00:35:02] Fair.

[00:35:03] Sorry, Randy.

[00:35:03] It's pretty disappointing.

[00:35:04] I know.

[00:35:07] Well, this has been so much fun.

[00:35:08] I will try to kill someone else.

[00:35:11] Uh, yeah.

[00:35:13] Thank you, Karen.

[00:35:13] I'm really happy you came on.

[00:35:15] I'm sure the listeners are too.

[00:35:16] I can't.

[00:35:17] I, I love being on the show with the two of you.

[00:35:20] You're two of my favorite people in the entire universe.

[00:35:23] So it's a pleasure.

[00:35:25] Thank you so much.

[00:35:25] It feels really weird.

[00:35:27] Cause I think this is when I, these episodes are when I started listening to the podcast, like season three, four.

[00:35:34] So it's very cyclical.

[00:35:36] Weird.

[00:35:37] Yeah.

[00:35:38] Right around this time as we started getting these amazingly articulate, um, uh, emails from Lucy.

[00:35:45] Mm hmm.

[00:35:45] Yeah, ma'am.

[00:35:46] And back in the day.

[00:35:47] Yeah.

[00:35:49] Wow.

[00:35:50] That's kind of crazy.

[00:35:51] Well, okay.

[00:35:52] Now I'm old.

[00:35:55] You're probably still not the age I was when I started doing this.

[00:35:58] I know.

[00:35:58] That's any consolation.

[00:35:59] I'm not far off.

[00:36:00] I'm not far off.

[00:36:01] How old were you when you started?

[00:36:03] Uh, I think I was 38.

[00:36:06] 42.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:08] You were 38.

[00:36:09] I think.

[00:36:10] Yeah, that would track.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] I know.

[00:36:12] You're not that much older than you.

[00:36:13] You were 40.

[00:36:15] Well, I was born in 71 and we started in 2010.

[00:36:19] Damn.

[00:36:20] Which would make me 39.

[00:36:21] Oh.

[00:36:22] 39.

[00:36:22] Yep.

[00:36:23] All right.

[00:36:23] I am actually not that far off that age.

[00:36:26] I'm 23.

[00:36:28] But it'll be coming before you know it.

[00:36:31] Well, thanks again, Karen.

[00:36:32] And we will talk to you soon.

[00:36:34] Love to have you back on to cover a movie or something.

[00:36:36] Yeah.

[00:36:37] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:36:38] I'm right there.

[00:36:40] So, okay.

[00:36:41] Okay.

[00:36:41] Bye.

[00:36:42] Send David and Posey your love.

[00:36:43] I will.

[00:36:44] Don't get bit, y'all.

[00:36:46] Bye, Karen.

[00:36:47] Bye.

[00:36:48] Bye.

[00:36:48] Bei another, uh, look.

[00:36:48] Well, it's probably Ruthie, what happened called

[00:36:48] We're 13 months ago.

[00:37:13] We were

[00:37:14] Are those ready for them , you can?

[00:37:24] We welcome your company to release.

[00:37:25] They made our and, um,

[00:37:27] at the moment we get from the, uh,

[00:37:27] On the fo, New York.

[00:37:28] And she has done a great job for us already.

[00:37:31] I feel ears to see you happen more clearly,

[00:37:32] What makes us important and Dol оргans if we do with

[00:37:34] Der out and deal with us to thepers which are

[00:37:34] Start them the test for one euro per month

[00:37:39] At the end of shopify.de, negotiate

[00:37:41] radio we're back it's time for the walking dead season 3 episode 16 welcome to the tombs

[00:37:49] i'll read the plot summary this time it says the governor kills milton in andrea's cell where he

[00:37:55] turns and bites her wait the governor turned and bite her after he killed milton that's not very

[00:38:01] well written that's just pure grammar wikipedia woodbury's army attacks the prison but flees when

[00:38:06] rick leads an ambush carl kills a surrendering soldier slash child terrifying rick furious at

[00:38:15] their retreat the governor massacres his army and leaves with martinez and shumpert what about

[00:38:21] shumpert yeah i know karen survives and leads rick back oh karen we were just talking to her

[00:38:28] and leads rick back to woodbury where michonne consoles andrea before her suicide who's

[00:38:34] suicide michonne's or andrews rick welcomes woodbury citizens to the prison healing his

[00:38:42] guilt from laurie's death that's quite an assumption but i'm trying to work out if it's a conflict of

[00:38:48] interest for me to edit wikipedia episode summaries for the walking dead what do you think it is

[00:38:56] probably because i participate in a podcast about it so i'm probably too close to the subject matter

[00:39:00] so you have to decide what you want to do do keep doing podcast or edit the summaries

[00:39:05] yeah yeah maybe i'll quit the podcast for two weeks edit summaries then come back

[00:39:12] hope we don't have a new house by then yep no just kidding all right so what do you think of this one

[00:39:19] yeah um yeah i liked it i think it's a weirdly optimistic ending like and the the music is very

[00:39:28] um filmic so it feels like a really strange episode in lots of ways because there are some

[00:39:34] kind of hopeful moments but not a lot really gets resolved so it's it is a weird one to look back on

[00:39:41] like you mentioned in the segment we just did that this episode wasn't as well received maybe or that

[00:39:46] people were frustrated with it and again i think because it's a rewatch i'm not feeling that frustration

[00:39:51] because i'm like oh well it's gonna all come out in the wash in a few episodes yeah we don't have

[00:39:56] expectations that weren't met or something like that but i remember at the time now that you've

[00:40:01] got me thinking about it being a bit like why didn't we just finish the governor story now why is it

[00:40:05] dragged on especially because we were kind of it was dragging it felt like yeah like when are we

[00:40:12] gonna get to see the big battle with the governor is it this episode nope this is episode we're

[00:40:17] watching merle the whole time fail yeah you know which now it seems like a brilliant episode back then

[00:40:23] it was like come on let's get to it and it's funny because with the whole show in the rearview mirror

[00:40:29] i remember when the negan stuff started a lot of people being like don't let this drag on like the

[00:40:34] governor yeah and i think it dragged on worse than the governor so now looking back i'm like oh it wasn't

[00:40:40] so bad we only had a season and a half that's like short you know this seems fine yeah i mean yeah

[00:40:45] and also like because i i think you were waiting for the battle and then it comes here and it's not

[00:40:52] even a definitive conclusion for the story of the governor it's like what and so that felt

[00:40:57] disappointing but now when we don't have those expectations i have a whole new appreciation for

[00:41:03] this episode and i feel like i have a deeper understanding for what they were going for and an

[00:41:08] appreciation for it so that's the rewatch for you i've been feeling that feeling a lot it's funny how in

[00:41:14] some episodes the rewatch has a negative impact in that like that andrea episode i found much more of

[00:41:20] a bummer because i knew how it was going to end whereas this one i think we can appreciate it better

[00:41:25] because we know it in the context of the whole show and i think that's interesting i mean in in and of

[00:41:31] itself it felt a bit pointless to me because the governor story didn't end but now i think i understand

[00:41:39] the point of it and the connective thread that weaves all the different elements of the episode

[00:41:46] together were there any external factors was it like a we don't know if we can get david morrissey

[00:41:50] or like what was there anything in there or was it always intended to go a season and a half

[00:41:57] i don't know if it was always intended but i think by the time they got to this episode of course they

[00:42:05] knew well they left him alive so they knew he was going to go yeah i don't know i mean it seems yeah

[00:42:12] i don't know i can't say it's interesting so um do you want to go first or do you want me to go first

[00:42:21] i can go first okay um peter and i have had a lot of discussions this week about

[00:42:30] cruelty in the walking dead and oh in the walking dead that's good i thought you're just gonna

[00:42:34] like it's cruel when you don't make my coffee in the morning um also sidebar this episode has

[00:42:41] peter's favorite walking dead moment ever which is herschel's facial expression when carl keeps that

[00:42:47] kid he made me pause it he's like pause it it's so good i'm like yeah it really is

[00:42:54] horrified i forgot that i hate the start of this episode because i don't like people getting

[00:43:00] tortured or beat up for shock value so we were talking about this episode in the context of

[00:43:07] andrea in the torture chair and we were both speaking a little bit about how the walking

[00:43:12] dead at this point is starting to play with the boundaries of what you can do on screen and what

[00:43:19] you can get away with and it hasn't gotten to negan levels yet it hasn't gotten to season seven episode

[00:43:24] one but this is what 2013 so we're coming into sort of prime game of thrones era as well which where a

[00:43:33] lot of torture porn goes down with things like the reek storyline oh god i hated that oh it lasted so

[00:43:40] long oh my god it's one of the things that really puts me off a game of thrones rewatches all that shit

[00:43:46] when it comes to torture a little goes a very long way i just think it's it's one of those things

[00:43:52] so we spoke about that a lot because i was thinking about um andrea and the whole basically the

[00:43:59] contrivance of her being in this fucking chair in this room looking like she's in a saw movie

[00:44:05] is it a good ending for her i don't know that's something we'll probably talk about but i in

[00:44:09] specifically to do with cruelty i really find the governor torturing milton very very difficult to

[00:44:15] watch um just because milton is such a passive meek character and the governor in this cold open

[00:44:22] sets up all the cruelty of woodbury in this episode we open with milton getting beat up this close up on

[00:44:30] the governor's eye they have this discussion about how now it is you kill or you die milton asks what

[00:44:37] would your daughter think about what you are and the governor says if i'd been like this from the start

[00:44:40] she'd be alive today that's kind of interesting because carl comes to a sort of similar conclusion

[00:44:48] about why they should keep not let people live because if rick had let someone live hadn't let

[00:44:54] someone live laurie might still be alive and sometimes these harder decisions you can speculate

[00:44:59] that they would lead to better outcomes but yeah then we milton gets dragged through to andrea who i think

[00:45:06] has been tortured a bit she's covered in more blood than she was i couldn't tell yeah if that was from

[00:45:11] just trying to escape because it was the wrist was trying to get but then she had some on her face and so

[00:45:17] that's that's grim milton smartly leaves her this tool um the government or the government the governor

[00:45:25] um tells milton to kill andrea is the government pretty much he is the government the government and

[00:45:31] governor um and milton gets just horrifically stabbed by the governor um who says you know i told you you

[00:45:38] were going to kill her and then he flips because he means as a zombie you're going to come back with

[00:45:43] the zombie and do it you kill or you die or you die and you kill which is a very nice word play there

[00:45:49] yeah but it's a just a really brutal way to start the episode good lord um on the i i watched it twice

[00:45:56] for today's recording and i was like just didn't pay that much attention the second time around because

[00:46:01] i don't i don't love it i don't love that level of violence but they shoot it in a very visceral way

[00:46:06] as well yeah what i i actually liked it i loved it i thought it was great it was so fun i watched it

[00:46:13] five times no um because you at first you don't know who he's no yeah torturing it's from the

[00:46:19] camera's point of view and you wonder if it's andrea i think that's the point right yeah and then you

[00:46:25] hear milton say something and i think this is a pretty good uh farewell episode for milton and he

[00:46:34] does so well in it he really does say like dallas roberts is a great like if you're gonna have

[00:46:40] somebody need to play someone who's mortally wounded and on the verge of death to the point where sometimes

[00:46:47] you wonder if he's already become a zombie but oh no he hasn't and make that believable and just

[00:46:52] deliciously well acted he's the right guy for it so i was appreciating his acting i guess the whole

[00:46:57] time i don't usually get in i don't like watching torture either but um i feel like if they had like

[00:47:05] had the governor you know with the thumb screws or something then i'd be like no thank you

[00:47:08] but have you ever watched something like um i don't know saw i only watched the first saw

[00:47:15] because uh derek and reem and i did that as an episode of the deadhead show the patreon podcast

[00:47:21] i had avoided watching saw or hostile or any torture porn before that but i figured and it's about time

[00:47:27] i watched it and see what this is all about yeah i that's a film that i'm just like i don't know if i

[00:47:33] could watch that like yeah i don't think i could i find it too yeah difficult i'm not into it

[00:47:41] not into it all right my turn yeah go for it okay here's what i love torture right jason

[00:47:49] let me count the ways um so this one's kind of long but my other ones are all short

[00:47:55] just a warning but it's it's different lessons taken from loss because when i re-watch season three

[00:48:01] now i see it with new eyes than before i see it as a story about how these characters deal with loss

[00:48:10] deal with losing people that they've cared about mostly in relation to the governor and i would

[00:48:18] argue morgan and rick and now carl so the governor and morgan i think are both dealing with it in some

[00:48:26] ways kind of similarly they're closing up their hearts to others and becoming focused on cold-blooded

[00:48:32] killing you know and i think rick was struggling with whether to do the same whether to close his

[00:48:39] heart to to people and not um be a compassionate person not see the humanity in others and i think

[00:48:47] that's kind of what that leaving the orange backpack guy on the side of the road was about but yeah then

[00:48:52] morgan shook him out of that and now i think this episode brings him fully over to the side of staying

[00:48:58] compassionate and welcoming to new people but looking at the governor they focus on his eye in the

[00:49:05] beginning kind of reminding me of lost but it but for him it's about him only having one eye and i might

[00:49:12] be reaching here but i think the point is he has limited vision now you know that he his losses have

[00:49:18] narrowed and limited his outlook and his one metaphor for that you know yeah that's cool he doesn't fully

[00:49:25] see people as people anymore and he kind of lays out his philosophy to milton in a way that's maybe a bit

[00:49:33] fear the walking dead ish but uh he usually keeps his real self hidden and now that he's with this guy

[00:49:40] who's probably going to die he's okay to say i'm going to tell you the secret there's a threat you end

[00:49:46] it and you don't feel ashamed about enjoying it it's not just about killing it's about really getting

[00:49:50] into the killing you smell the gunpowder you see the blood you know what that means it means you're

[00:49:54] alive you've won you take the head so you don't ever forget which is about those aquariums that he had

[00:49:59] you kill or you die so you kill or you die he sees the world as kill or be killed and he also had the side

[00:50:07] other manipulative side where he can fool people into following him but i think that was more about

[00:50:14] creating this ideal world for penny and he's rapidly losing patience with any like diplomacy or bothering

[00:50:21] with that anymore you know he's just turning into his full-on feral self um milton says what would your

[00:50:28] daughter think of the way you are and he goes she'd be afraid of me but if i'd been like this from the

[00:50:32] start she'd be alive today and that's very much mirrors what carl's thinking to kill or be killed

[00:50:40] if you had killed he says to um rick if you'd killed andrew you know he doesn't say it but mom

[00:50:48] would be alive which god have your son say that um if you i mean he's not wrong but he's not yeah you

[00:50:54] don't know you don't know what's gonna happen when you do or don't do something yeah yeah and well i'll

[00:50:59] guess that because that's one thing the walking does dead does well is it has us really thinking

[00:51:03] about these things you know it's not cut and dried it's not black and white um but um anyways at the

[00:51:10] prison um the governor finds herschel's bible with this passage highlighted it's from john 5 29

[00:51:17] and shall come forth they that have done good unto the resurrection of life and they that have done

[00:51:22] evil unto the resurrection of damnation which i think basically means good people go to heaven and

[00:51:27] bad people go to hell and it's a clear message from herschel to the governor about hey what kind of

[00:51:33] person are you and i think it's a commentary on commentary on the morality of the path that the

[00:51:39] governor's gone down where he's closing himself off to people to the point that he doesn't care

[00:51:43] about killing people yeah and um so then when rick and everybody drive his people out of the prison

[00:51:53] and then the governor stops and he's so pissed at them for running away and they're all arguing about

[00:51:58] whether they should have been fighting and he just loses patience and starts mowing them down

[00:52:03] that shocked me so much i think that's still to me one of the more shocking scenes

[00:52:10] in the walking dead it's so i remember feeling like oh holy fuck it's a great scene in a horrible way

[00:52:19] you know it is it really is and it's so it always gets me how the way the guy that plays martinez

[00:52:27] plays it he looks so yeah shocked like and he plays it so well he doesn't like oh no but he's like

[00:52:34] oh uh like the look on his face he nearly drops his gun he's backing up oh my god it's creepy it's

[00:52:39] so creepy with that look on his face i'm kind of surprised the governor didn't just go oh maybe

[00:52:45] i should kill you too if you're gonna look at me like that you know yeah exactly i was like

[00:52:49] maybe i mean to be fair shump is just kind of like no whatever he's seen some shit he's like yeah sure

[00:52:57] it's another day um but but this makes sense because the governor really cares about no one

[00:53:02] people are objects to him and they're either useful or if they're not useful then he considers them

[00:53:07] threats to be dealt with we've seen that over and over once you stop being useful to him he's a mortal

[00:53:12] danger to you and and this is the tragedy of him is that he let this loss of his wife first and then

[00:53:19] his child just close him off from the rest of the world and turn him into this and morgan is going down

[00:53:25] that same path and now carl this young impressionable kid whose views are being forged by this crazy world

[00:53:32] we see him looking at the picture of his family that he got in clear with michonne and i think that is

[00:53:40] a reminder of what he's lost his mom and how will that loss shape him and then he's pissed i think he's

[00:53:48] mad at his dad because he's forcing him to not be there for the fight he has to go off with beth

[00:53:53] and herschel and judith and watch from the sidelines and um he's saying i should be there when he's

[00:54:00] doing that i think he he's like his dad he he he feels responsible for everyone's safety and he doesn't

[00:54:07] want he he doesn't want people to die because of something he does or doesn't do and then there's that

[00:54:14] if i'm a scene that you talked about where they come upon this kid with the gun and herschel says drop

[00:54:19] your weapon and the kid says sure take it and i mean he looks scared they shot it in a way where

[00:54:27] you could believe that maybe because herschel said drop it not hand it over so yeah that kid's

[00:54:34] innocent i i do too i think so too but i think they shot it in a way where there's a little room for

[00:54:40] doubt at least for some people right i don't think so but um carl shoots him herschel's horrified

[00:54:47] and carl looks that famous look carl seemed like he was pretty shaken by it in the moment but just

[00:54:54] like 30 seconds later he's telling rick i want to go to woodbury and i did my job i took out a soldier

[00:54:59] and he drew on us and carl says i'm sorry you had i mean rich rick says i'm sorry you had to do that

[00:55:04] and carl's like that's what i was there for i'm going with you so he's very callous about it he

[00:55:09] doesn't seem to get the weight of what he did or realize that it wasn't even necessary he's kind

[00:55:13] of smug with it he's arrogant he's like i killed a soldier yeah and it seems like it's realistic that

[00:55:20] a kid might act that way you know yeah uh it's horrible and and this kid that had the gun i mean

[00:55:28] we know that the governor had his people there under false pretenses this kid was a decent kid

[00:55:33] and he probably was scared shitless and just wanted to live you know and he looked like straight out the

[00:55:38] disney channel like he's just such i was just like that kid could be in a boy band yeah yeah it was

[00:55:44] very very innocent looking very and then when herschel tells rick he didn't have to shoot and

[00:55:50] rick's kind of defending carl which you would expect a parent to do but herschel's like i'm telling you

[00:55:56] he gunned that kid down like just really driving it home and i think i believe herschel's right even

[00:56:02] more now than i did back then i don't remember for sure but i totally believe that yes herschel's right

[00:56:07] and that's kind of the point and rick i think believed that too and so when rick confronts carl

[00:56:12] about it carl says i couldn't you know rick says was he handing the gun over i couldn't take the chance

[00:56:18] i didn't kill the walker that killed dale look what happened you didn't kill andrew and he came back

[00:56:23] and killed mom oh he does say that and uh so the lessons that carl has learned from these losses

[00:56:31] is the same thing the governor's been saying kill or be killed and so thinking about whether carl has

[00:56:39] a point i'm like it's not black and white and even at the end of carl's life he ends up arguing against

[00:56:47] that the letter that he wrote to rick says you have to find peace with negan you have to find a way

[00:56:52] forward somehow we don't have to forget what happened but you can make it so it doesn't happen again and

[00:56:58] nobody has to live this way that every life is worth something start everything over show everyone

[00:57:03] they can be safe again without killing that can feel safe again so i just think it's kind of

[00:57:09] interesting that in both of those cases carl kind of prompts rick to be a gentler more compassionate

[00:57:17] peaceful person in this case this is a reaction against carl but in later on it's more being inspired

[00:57:24] by carl's letter and then also i think another thing that ties this episode together and i won't

[00:57:32] go too much into this but in woodbury rick and everyone find andrea and she talks about how she

[00:57:36] tried to save everyone and i think that makes an impact on rick too he's she's like i tried and he

[00:57:41] says yeah you did you did so so by the end when karen tells all the woodbarians that the governor

[00:57:49] killed a bunch of them and rick brings them back and carl's like what is that what the fuck man

[00:57:54] and rick's like they're gonna join us and i think the combination of carl becoming callous

[00:58:00] and starting to go down that path that the governor and i would argue morgan went down

[00:58:06] and andrea being inspiring and having tried to broker peace and avoid any violence or killing

[00:58:13] i think all of that convinces rick to invite the woodbarians to live with them at the prison i mean i

[00:58:18] think it's mostly to be a model that set an example for carl but by following andrea's lead

[00:58:23] and show him that it's not always kill or be killed and i think the point is whenever possible they should

[00:58:29] evaluate whether you shouldn't just knee-jerk kill anything that seems like it might be a threat

[00:58:35] there has to be i mean it's hard to know for sure but but you know when andrea says to michonne

[00:58:45] it's good you found them meaning she's realized michonne has found rick's group and michonne

[00:58:49] says no one can make it alone now that's like the theme here the governor tried to make it alone really

[00:58:54] he was very he seemed like a very lonely person but this makes andrea's efforts all season seem

[00:58:59] more meaningful because it caused i think it helped cause rick to bring the woodbarians

[00:59:04] into the prison even though they all end up dying i think but anyway

[00:59:09] i what do you think i i think you're right and i feel so bad for carl in a way because

[00:59:15] although the trauma of losing laurie is the more recent one he's high tuned to

[00:59:22] notice that because of what happened with dale because what happened with dale was so horrible

[00:59:26] like for kid carl um not killing that zombie and then the zombie coming and killing dale like that

[00:59:33] must have been just such a trauma for that kid to go through and that's going to be on his mind

[00:59:40] constantly and then to see his dad do the same kind of thing um it it just compounds that feeling

[00:59:47] and that anxiety for him that if you don't kill people um they're going to come back and do something

[00:59:54] even more horrible and yeah although i hate what he does in this episode killing that kid and acting

[01:00:00] like he's been a big hero and things like that i can understand it yeah um yeah it's just it's a it's

[01:00:09] an interesting what you say the way that our responses to grief shape everyone's behavior in these episodes

[01:00:15] and yeah and i mean each situation so dale with the zombie um why didn't carl kill that zombie

[01:00:25] can you remember he ran away he just didn't do it because there's a big rock said it and he he ran

[01:00:31] away did he have the gun at that point he did right i i can't remember maybe not i don't remember

[01:00:38] yeah i think he did he stole daryl's gun yeah so i think that's true he should have killed that zombie

[01:00:44] you know i mean you still can't blame him for what happened later but um there was no downside

[01:00:50] to killing that zombie i think no but uh nothing at all with with andrew who went on to basically

[01:00:57] cause laurie's death by letting a bunch of zombies into the prison rick kind of thought he killed him

[01:01:03] because he threw him out into the courtyard with a bunch of zombies yeah yeah kill him better dad

[01:01:09] kill him better dad yeah i mean that's true like andrew was enough of a bad guy that rick probably

[01:01:17] should have made sure he got the job done so in that situation i could at least see an argument

[01:01:22] yeah carl you're right rick should have made sure that andrew was dead if he was going to throw him

[01:01:26] out there uh but that doesn't mean that every situation where some where where something you're

[01:01:32] not sure if it's a threat you should immediately just kill the person each situation needs to be

[01:01:36] evaluated right because um you're going to come across a lot of people in the zombie apocalypse

[01:01:42] who you don't know and you need people to survive and so you have to be able to protect yourself while

[01:01:52] at the same time giving yourself some kind of a space to evaluate whether you can trust someone

[01:01:56] and show them that they can trust you and not just be ready to fight and kill all the time

[01:02:02] because that's that strength you know that you can never get the commonwealth from acting like that

[01:02:09] no you really can't um it is interesting to kind of look at all the perspectives in this episode from that

[01:02:16] viewpoint though isn't it and the way that carl's kind of mad at rick at the end when he brings

[01:02:22] everyone back to the prison he sort of rolls his eyes and almost storms off a little bit it's yeah

[01:02:30] carl's entering a rocky patch i would say yeah understandably it's good storytelling i think it

[01:02:36] really is it's uh it makes me feel negatively towards him a little bit like that's my knee-jerk

[01:02:44] reaction what a little shit or what a little psycho but then yeah you go a little deeper and it's like

[01:02:49] oh my god that's so sad but then we see that he turns out to be a really good kid and then it's just

[01:02:56] such a tragedy that he dies so early but um i think i'm glad that the show got to the point where

[01:03:02] he was past this and turned into a compassionate person yeah i also love comic book carl for that

[01:03:11] i feel like comic book carl has such a good arc as well way better right comic book herschel not so

[01:03:19] much many herschel herschel reed not herschel green um speaking of people who were killed off the show

[01:03:27] uh andrea's death huh how do we feel about that in retrospect watching it again well i think actually

[01:03:37] andrea's talking about how she tried to save everyone and um i feel a little better about it because i do

[01:03:47] think that ties in to all of this i think i don't think i saw before that andrea's example helped lead

[01:03:56] rick to bring the woodbarians in and so it makes that ending feel like more of not just some random

[01:04:03] thing but a natural progression of where the season's been going this whole time that andrea's

[01:04:08] been trying to foster a solution where there didn't have to be violence and where everyone could be

[01:04:16] saved and where people could um work together and then at the end that's what rick ended up doing

[01:04:21] you know trying trying to do that so i feel like it all fits together a little better than i thought it

[01:04:26] did back then all that said uh i don't know yeah and i also really loved the tension of them being in a

[01:04:35] room together we know milton's probably going to die and turn into a zombie really soon and she has to

[01:04:40] get the pliers with their feet and get herself out before that happens that was some good tense

[01:04:45] horrific moments there i loved it see i hated it on second wall i didn't hate it hate it is hard

[01:04:53] um didn't like it this is where our cruelty conversation came from was peter asked me he's

[01:04:58] like how do you feel about andrea's death and i was like honestly if i was laurie holden i'd be pissed

[01:05:02] i'd rather go out in a blaze of glory than this it felt like again though is this the re-watch because

[01:05:11] i know how it ends it's less powerful and more frustrating me being like this seems ridiculous

[01:05:18] like the whole thing with the i know everyone spoke about it at the time but like the perfectly

[01:05:22] pedicured feet and the fucking uh i don't remember them talking about that pliers um but it's just sad

[01:05:30] it's really sad i it's it's horrifically set up you know with with milton there and i just feel

[01:05:39] that moment where andrea finally gets the gun and we hear off camera her shoot herself i guess there's

[01:05:47] part of me that's like poor andrea she wanted to end it all in season one she got dragged through it

[01:05:52] she got dragged back into life and i hope that the time she had with michonne was happy because you

[01:05:59] know otherwise what a miserable six to nine months she's had and then it ends like this

[01:06:06] like yeah it's a bit of a woof for me yeah it is i mean it is like she tried to help and

[01:06:16] i mean that is the thing is except for the fact that pretty much all the woodbarians end up dying

[01:06:23] later on take that away for now she did help and she the woodbarians that are left the vulnerable

[01:06:32] ones because it's everybody who wasn't fighting basically you know the the children and the

[01:06:38] older women i guess i don't know um they're all going to the prison now to join up with rick and his

[01:06:46] and and i i think that's in part because of the example that andrea set so her death wasn't in

[01:06:52] vain her efforts were not in vain i don't think um whatever that's worth you know i mean she's dead so

[01:06:59] that's it's not worth that for her but um but i love i really

[01:07:07] think that uh this is a horror show and it's bleak and not everybody's gonna have the kind of death

[01:07:16] where you feel good about it in fact almost no one is glenn glenn didn't herschel didn't it's just

[01:07:24] hard when people die but i guess the way we evaluate the deaths i don't know it was it um

[01:07:33] how do we evaluate the deaths i think one of the factors that we come back to

[01:07:39] a lot is the wider context and i think this is the the hard one because we know the wider context

[01:07:45] was that laurie holden didn't want to leave the show and that there were other things at play and

[01:07:50] that always makes it she didn't get along with clemazar i think was yeah and that's because she

[01:07:54] was very much a darabont hire and yeah yeah that's that's hard but as far as being a cool death i think

[01:08:00] it was cool i i think it was great how that tension was there the whole episode with her and milton and

[01:08:06] i especially love the scene where milton's like and she's like oh my god and he's all oh hello you

[01:08:13] know and uh then when he does turn it's right as she's finally able to get the plier so it's just at

[01:08:20] the last minute and then um i liked how uh you you just hear growling and screaming you don't see it i

[01:08:29] thought that was artfully shot yeah it was just a good horror movie death i thought and then uh when

[01:08:35] i'm glad that she got to meet with michonne you know before she passed that was a nice moment

[01:08:40] yeah and they did a little callback with rick on that um i know the safety and everything

[01:08:45] safety works yeah and then um she says to rick she wants to do it herself which i think is

[01:08:53] a callback to her wanting to be able to end her own life earlier um i think it's sort of

[01:09:00] maybe a little ironic that her arc at the end here is wanting to save people but one of her main

[01:09:05] characteristics has been wanting people to be able to kill themselves but i guess it's all about choice

[01:09:10] for her but uh then you know then we see rick and everybody except for andrea and michonne just

[01:09:17] outside the room and the gun goes off and i thought that was an artful way to present that too

[01:09:22] very sad and it and you realize that michonne's still in there with her which is very intimate

[01:09:27] in a really sad way but um moving and you know originally it wasn't shot that way uh they came

[01:09:34] back and reshot it i have a quote from dallas roberts about it he says originally the beating

[01:09:41] scene that started the episode wasn't there originally i showed up and was led into the room where andrea was

[01:09:47] and i took the tools out the instruments of torture that were laid on the table and then the governor

[01:09:52] shot me in the stomach completely unexpectedly and then i was left to bleed out in the same idea

[01:09:57] basically you're going to kill her now there was a lot more of milton trying to open the door and him

[01:10:01] trying to free her from the chains and then there was a section where he was going to wrap the chain

[01:10:06] around his neck and try to choke her to death before he turned so she wouldn't have to deal with walker

[01:10:12] milton or biter milton as it were and then at the end of that it was just tyrese and someone else who

[01:10:18] found her rick and daryl and michonne weren't there so it was essentially the same idea except

[01:10:23] you saw me taking chunks out of laurie holden in that version and then they called us back a few

[01:10:28] months later to reshoot it and made all those changes so now you're not sure if i've gotten

[01:10:33] to her until after that door opens and i think that's probably why they did it i don't i don't know

[01:10:39] why he thinks that was why they did it but anyway i think the way it played out sounds better than

[01:10:46] i think so that sounds yeah that's kind of wild yeah i think definitely definitely the way it is

[01:10:56] depicted on screen is is better and it might explain why laurie holden had had a pedicure

[01:11:01] she had three months off she was treating herself i talked i think i talked to her about that on one

[01:11:07] of her interviews but it's been so long but i remember her saying something about uh because

[01:11:12] i think gimple had bizarre had been pushed out and gimple came back and i think he directed the

[01:11:20] reshoots and did it in a way where it felt like it was honoring her more where she got to meet with

[01:11:26] michonne you know and have that moment and so i think actually she was happier with this ending

[01:11:33] that's good i know she was than the ending that they originally shot so at least there's that

[01:11:38] you know there was part of me in this episode that's like milton for fuck's sake just drag yourself

[01:11:44] over there and hand her the pliers but like he is dying that's true that is a good but i am also like

[01:11:49] try a little yeah yeah you're gonna die anyway why not just gonna die anyway you may as well go

[01:11:56] over he's just like no you have to reach them yourself and i'm like but i did like when he was

[01:12:03] saying things like she's like uh i'm gonna save you and he's like uh no you're not and you need to get

[01:12:11] out of there you need to hurry like he's just telling her he knows exactly what's gonna happen

[01:12:16] and i think dallas roberts was so good too the calm he has in this episode even when he's being

[01:12:21] tortured is incredible like he's just so resigned to it and so driven and i love that

[01:12:31] yeah i really i i i think i feel differently about you about that that part of this episode which is

[01:12:37] totally great it's fine for us to feel different but i really liked all those segments with milton

[01:12:43] and andrea yeah it's just yeah it's it's a bummer i didn't hate andrea as much this time around so

[01:12:49] so then it's like more of a bummer that she's gone yeah you have to die like that yeah yeah

[01:12:56] merle i don't think merle i don't think he wanted to leave either her career didn't go as well as his

[01:13:02] after this what did she end up doing after she was in the boys a little bit that's right but that role

[01:13:09] is what a role and um she was in dumb and dumber two which didn't do that well

[01:13:20] she was in the americans that was good okay do you know i never watched the americans and i really

[01:13:25] neither but karen loves it and i've heard it's really good and that she's good in it

[01:13:32] laurie holden cool and what does dallas roberts do i don't know that's a good question i'd like to look

[01:13:38] that up i'd like to see him in something else what's your next point you want me to go or do

[01:13:46] you want to go once you go for it i checked on about andrea's death for a bit all righty uh well

[01:13:51] let's see the attack the governor and crew roll into the prisons start shooting the place up but the

[01:13:57] whatever michonne and everybody were doing last episode to try to slow them down didn't seem to

[01:14:01] do much i think i heard a tire pop at one point but it didn't really slow them down you know

[01:14:08] you showed your ideas for shit

[01:14:11] stick to the katana stuff uh yeah yeah uh it's about 21 minutes and 22 seconds or so if you want

[01:14:20] to see me get shot inside the prison and fall and a bunch of gunk come off my head excellent

[01:14:28] um and then let's see they drive the governor and crew out it seemed like why are they leaving

[01:14:37] i need to watch it again i only watched it once for this uh podcast but um it felt kind of

[01:14:42] anticlimactic and i just remember the second time the governor attacks is much worse and awful but

[01:14:51] narratively more satisfying yeah when carl uh herschel gets killed and that was just a big

[01:14:58] moment that maybe they i felt like they were like you know we need to do that again and do it right

[01:15:04] or something like that um and that's where rick goes full carl carl carl all right i have another

[01:15:16] short one rick and michonne so we were wondering if they would have any kind of a reckoning and they

[01:15:21] sort of do michonne says the deal the governor offered you about me you had to think about it

[01:15:28] you had to i get it and i'm like really seems like you're letting him off pretty easy he was oh she's

[01:15:33] into him give you a torturer yeah but like that's not cool no it's not i completely could not agree

[01:15:42] more i watched that scene and i was like this flirty banter is a bit weird it is weird i know

[01:15:49] you thought about killing me but you're cute yeah i was sort of like i love rick and michonne this

[01:15:54] chemistry's off the hood yeah the substance of what they're saying is odd i was like and she's like

[01:15:59] you know you saved me and he's like you had formula and she's like you did you taking the formula

[01:16:04] he says i'm sorry i came real close and she goes but you didn't because you love me

[01:16:14] because you love me um yeah it was it was weird i was into it because the two of them you know i

[01:16:20] could just watch them ag whatever but yes i agree he very much got off the hook quite lightly there

[01:16:27] after the first half of the season where michonne seems like she hates everyone and doesn't trust

[01:16:33] anyone and now she's like oh you you almost you know sold me out but whatever

[01:16:39] whereas the governor does one thing and she's like fuck you man i'm gonna cut your eye out

[01:16:43] chop up your zombie daughter cool cool cool

[01:16:48] but uh whatever and then um she thanks him for taking her in and he gives carl the credit well

[01:16:54] that was my son's idea i didn't want to um yeah and says carl said she's one of them and and i i

[01:17:00] think to try to figure out what she's doing like i've said she's just such a good judge of character

[01:17:07] she knows their hearts and and she takes this as the fact that rick did change his mind and wasn't

[01:17:14] ultimately going to turn her over as a sign that she is now one of them and she's in the circle and

[01:17:21] that they'll be loyal to her now and she's totally right about that if that's what it is and i do

[01:17:26] think a listener wrote and i'm so sorry that i can't remember which listener it was um saying

[01:17:31] that they felt that rick was a bit unsettled by his feelings for michonne and while i don't think

[01:17:36] he's fully like in love with her at this point i think there is something about her that's under

[01:17:41] his skin and he is shying away from it a little bit in this scene when he's like no i didn't

[01:17:46] no i didn't save you carl saved you like yeah it feels like they're doing a little dance there which i

[01:17:51] really enjoy i like that reading yeah because you know his wife died like probably three days ago

[01:17:56] or something yeah she died like two days ago maybe my wife did like just die just give me a week okay

[01:18:06] but they they're really good on screen even when it's weird they really really do have such good

[01:18:11] chemistry um i i'm just looking through mine i really liked how they knitted in tyree

[01:18:21] and sasha in this episode because i hadn't thought about it in a long time but yeah getting sasha

[01:18:28] and tyree to woodbury and back into the prison group was a little bit of narrative

[01:18:36] kind of trickery there nothing not like trickery isn't like a bad thing but um yeah it was nice to

[01:18:42] see them just to really highlight that they're good people make a stand with the governor and say

[01:18:47] we're not doing that and we'll stay with the women and children and then you know you can do what you

[01:18:54] want with us when you get back what the governor would have done with them uh i don't know um but it

[01:19:00] was nice to see that and to get a strong sense that tyreece and sasha are good people um and that they are

[01:19:06] at this point having serious doubts about the governor because they're aware that andrea hasn't come back

[01:19:11] or they think andrew hasn't come back um and they're not comfortable with what they're being

[01:19:15] asked to do along with that i'd forgotten how prominent karen was in this episode um that was

[01:19:23] interesting yeah that she played dead there and i i think the only reason karen was an ongoing

[01:19:31] character for a little while until carol kills her is because they just needed someone to go back and

[01:19:37] report on what the governor did so that saved karen for a little while you know for the story i mean

[01:19:43] but even then they kind of um set up her and tyreece a little bit because you know they're talking to one

[01:19:50] another it's like tyreece karen like yeah it's good although the yelling did make me laugh because

[01:19:55] they weren't exactly having a subtle conversation it's like why are you there he killed them all okay

[01:20:02] and i was like maybe we could have this conversation indoors so that not everyone knows that everyone's

[01:20:07] dead but sure um and then they need to know what the governor did and but i mean they also don't need

[01:20:13] to know that the relatives are dead in that way they could i guess you're right uh and then of course

[01:20:18] tyreece and sasha walk to the um place where andrew is being kept with them um and i think that's

[01:20:25] really interesting because it's them sort of folding into the group and realizing

[01:20:30] fully what goes on under the surface at woodbury um so yeah we have tyreece and sasha which is great

[01:20:38] at this point up to now tyreece and sasha to me seem like two just regular people almost like fans of

[01:20:49] the show or something who walked in off the street or maybe not fans of the show but just two regular

[01:20:54] people who um walked onto this movie setter and they're like what's going on here oh you're weird

[01:21:02] oh let me go over to you no you're weird it's almost like they're they're sidelined and they're

[01:21:06] reacting to everything and don't know what's going on and it just feels like they didn't to me i think

[01:21:13] do a good job of integrating them into the story this season yeah and uh later on they do a lot more

[01:21:19] oh yeah they're right there next year but yeah it's it's almost like maybe they should have waited

[01:21:25] or something i don't know maybe i'm not giving him giving it enough credit of uh their the point

[01:21:31] of view of but we already have the point of view of people who trust the governor yeah that shouldn't

[01:21:37] you know right need another person like that to focus on so i don't know yeah so i just had one

[01:21:45] note that um when daryl said to carol you know merle never did nothing like that his whole life

[01:21:54] and carol says he gave us a chance and my first reaction to that was okay cool so people do know

[01:22:01] what merle tried to do and i'm glad about that but i'm not sure how it gave them a chance he no i

[01:22:07] got killed generous reading there is he did he kill a couple of their people or something i don't know

[01:22:13] what happened he killed alan's shitty son carol was like well you know yeah that felt like a bit

[01:22:22] of a weird one yeah that's all i have um what else do i have glenn and maggie shooting from because of

[01:22:29] course the whole thing is it's a setup they act as though they've left the prison then when they

[01:22:34] they managed to successfully drive the woodbrains out it's very satisfying to see glenn and maggie on

[01:22:39] the the deck not the deck the what do we call the bit where rick and laurie have those conversations

[01:22:45] oh like a catwalk yeah the catwalk that's great um on the catwalk and they are a big part in finishing

[01:22:53] it off and shooting people but they do not come to woodbury when daryl and everyone try and head out

[01:22:59] to finish everything where they run into karen um the ending of this episode two things three things

[01:23:07] really stand out to me one is that it's weirdly upbeat uh the second is that there's a lot of emotion

[01:23:15] around the hyundai which always makes me laugh the hyundai is very prominently featured and the third is

[01:23:21] that the music in this episode i mentioned it at the start but it is very filmic it doesn't feel like

[01:23:28] music from other seasons there's very emotional upbeat swelling music at the end of the episode

[01:23:34] where we see that rick isn't seeing laurie anymore there's this kind of sunrise over the walkers

[01:23:39] um but throughout the episode there's some kind of battle music that's very intense

[01:23:45] it's yeah it's an interesting soundscape i'd be interested to sort of listen to it all

[01:23:50] while not watching the episode to kind of see what's going on with that because it really stood out to me

[01:23:56] on this rewatch i about not seeing laurie yeah i think once he lets the woodbarians in then he looks

[01:24:05] up where he's usually been seeing laurie which i'd forgotten she'd still been around in these later

[01:24:11] episodes but she's not there now so i guess she was there to tell him something and now he i mean it's

[01:24:19] not supernatural i think it's all psychological but he feels like that's settled but i'm not exactly sure

[01:24:26] what it was because i had always interpreted her being there as him sort of saying feeling guilty

[01:24:31] about not having saved her so maybe that's it and now he's saving some other people so it's helping

[01:24:36] yeah he's a toning a little bit but i think the ending is actually fitting this upbeat ending because

[01:24:41] i think not helping orange backpack guy was one of rick's lower points although i know a lot of

[01:24:50] listeners wouldn't agree but now he is helping people again and so yeah it's a good high point

[01:24:56] to end the season on for him i think so um i also have trivia and a timeline check-in nice apparently

[01:25:06] dallas roberts is not credited in this episode um the episode starts off with a close-up view of an eye

[01:25:12] and then pans out to show the governor's face if we remember the premiere episode for this season

[01:25:17] starts out the same way only when the camera pans out it reveals a walker's face oh cool possibly a

[01:25:23] metaphor for how the season starts off with walkers being the biggest danger to the group and ends with

[01:25:27] them learning that other people are often a greater threat i also thought it was fitting that

[01:25:33] milton the zombie researcher ended up as a zombie that's true that's what happens if you dedicate your

[01:25:40] life to too close to your work yeah yeah um this is the first time beth has left the prison since the

[01:25:47] group arrived um they say that like it's ages it's probably been about a week

[01:25:55] um the music at the close of the episode is not the usual walking dead theme but a melancholy piano

[01:26:00] ballad i noticed that and we've heard this before but one of the woodbury survivors brendan cornwell

[01:26:05] is the uncle of the first set of twins to play judith oh i didn't um this is the final appearance of

[01:26:13] laurie and andrea the next fact i think is not totally true they do a flashback of andrea in an

[01:26:22] alternate reality when michonne is all hopped up on hallucinogenics although it's just reused footage

[01:26:29] so maybe it doesn't count this one this next one i think might be disproven now at the time of writing

[01:26:37] welcome to the tombs was the only finale in which a series regular is killed off in this case

[01:26:42] andrea i have no idea except no i mean finale i think that's the first thing i think of

[01:26:49] yeah i don't know um the sequence surrounding andrea's death is a reference to the first season

[01:26:55] and her wanting to go on her own terms uh when her sister amy died but being stopped by dale at the

[01:27:00] cdc however the reference to knowing how to work the gun safety is a reference to her first meeting

[01:27:05] with rick yep in season one episode two in that scene she holds a gun on rick after which he tells

[01:27:10] her the next time you should take the safety off now this final spoilery one i think is incorrect

[01:27:17] in the first instance laurie holden apparently asked to be released from her contract i don't think

[01:27:23] that's true i think she was pushed but oh yeah i think so yeah um and we are on day 313 and then

[01:27:33] 314 which is july 3rd and july 4th 2011 interestingly on july 4th um when we go into the governor episodes

[01:27:46] this is when the governor will wake up in the field and take the military vehicle uh to go and set fire

[01:27:51] to woodbury it's also when morgan's apartment burns down due to accidentally knocking over a lantern and

[01:27:57] he moves into the forest to continue clearing and we'll see that in here is not here so a lot happens

[01:28:03] on july the 4th that year uh the two governor episodes that are coming up next season are um not loved

[01:28:13] by most fans uh i remember liking them more than most people but um we've got two people who have

[01:28:23] requested to guest with us because they particularly love those episodes so i think that's really cool

[01:28:28] rebecca louise is going to be on for one thing and nathan eshelman oh i like that yay it's good to have

[01:28:35] yeah that kind of a thing you know maybe they can help the rest of us like them a little bit more

[01:28:41] that's super cool i like that that's good vibes all right only on the walking dead would the first

[01:28:47] rule of parenting be that you need to teach your kid that it's not usually okay to kill strangers

[01:28:56] uh only on the walking dead would a pair of pliers be the difference between life and death

[01:29:01] or not right okay you had a news item i did in the british guardian today it caught my eye that

[01:30:03] there's an article about denai guerrera in the global development section entitled walking dead actor

[01:30:08] denai guerrera inspires african playwrights with zimbabwe workshops television and film star who wrote the

[01:30:14] first play to premiere on broadway with an all-female and black cast and creatives hopes writers

[01:30:20] conference will bring on new talent so a group of upcoming playwrights is gathering in the zimbabwean

[01:30:26] capital harare this week for an 11-day event organized by celebrated american zimbabwean actor

[01:30:31] denai guerrera as part of her commitment to nurturing a new generation of dramatic artists

[01:30:36] in southern africa cool best known for her award-winning roles in the walking dead series

[01:30:42] and black panther movies guerrera is also a dramatist her plays include eclipsed the first play to premiere

[01:30:47] on broadway as said with an all-female and black cast and creative team um guerrera says what i kept

[01:30:55] experiencing was coming home from the us to zimbabwe and finding people were not getting trained in the

[01:31:00] field of playwriting and playmaking they were telling me they wrote a play in three days playmaking

[01:31:08] is hard there is no sustainable piece of writing that can be completed in three days i wanted to

[01:31:13] expose the zimbabwean artists to process so they could develop their talent to its utmost potential

[01:31:19] that is the only way we create work that is globally recognized it is the only way we create work that tells

[01:31:24] our stories in a way that is undeniable and universal so it's really cool um it's an interesting

[01:31:30] article more than 500 african artists have participated in workshops devised by guerrera

[01:31:35] and her partner twingo over the past 11 years um they've been attended by guest actors and other

[01:31:42] industry figures from the u.s including walking dead producer and writer matt nagretti and some other

[01:31:48] names we might recognize and yeah it's just a really cool event i'll give jason the link for the show

[01:31:53] notes um but she's doing some really amazing work fostering talent back in zimbabwe so yeah go deny

[01:32:00] you're great yeah she is great i wonder if she said that to the writers of fear the walking death you

[01:32:05] can't write anything good in three days what are you doing i wonder if she ever watched that show

[01:32:11] yeah um okay next i don't think that we've talked much about it on this podcast but

[01:32:20] we all i think we all love 28 days later and 28 weeks later right do you yes i love those movies

[01:32:27] those came out a while back 2002 and 2007 respectively and i don't know if you guys listening know but

[01:32:36] they're finally going to do more movies and 28 years later is coming out in 16 more years no just

[01:32:43] kidding in june 25th of next year so it's written by the writer of the first movie alex garland who's

[01:32:51] become since then one of my favorite directors as well doing ex machina among other things

[01:32:56] um and danny boyle who directed the first movie he's co-writing it with alex garland and he'll be

[01:33:02] directing it danny boyle so um in case that wasn't clear alex garland and danny boyle are co-writing

[01:33:08] it danny boyle's directing it and the wikipedia synopsis says 28 years after the events of 28

[01:33:15] weeks later the rage virus has returned and a group of survivors must face a world ravaged by

[01:33:20] hordes of the infected which makes me wonder if that's an accurate synopsis whether the rage virus

[01:33:26] went away for a while since it returned you know i guess we'll find out yeah i'm bringing it up now

[01:33:33] because they just released a really cool poster which i posted on our facebook group and a lot of

[01:33:38] people seemed excited and a trailer that people seem pretty creeped out by including lucy who says

[01:33:44] it's great but i haven't seen it um without spoiling the content of the trailer um there's been a lot

[01:33:51] of articles about the soundtrack that they use for it um so rather than using music they've used a 1915

[01:33:59] recording of taylor holmes reading a poem by rudyard kipling called boots and the reason they've used it

[01:34:07] is because the u.s navy in real life operates a training program called survival evasion resistance

[01:34:14] and escape and it's a training program designed to help people survive hostile environments and one of

[01:34:21] the things they do to participants is lock them in a small cell by repeatedly being played the scariest

[01:34:26] thing that the the staff have and that's this recording and it is creepy as fuck and the it's

[01:34:34] use it in real life it's not easy straight um also the uh the trailer features the teletubbies which for

[01:34:41] british children of a certain age is also creepy enough um honestly jason i yeah i know you don't watch

[01:34:47] trailers i'm gonna stop trying i will watch it at some point for sure yeah it's great i'm so excited

[01:34:52] i've been yeah i've watched it about 10 times i mean i'm i just think yeah it's great that

[01:34:59] the two original guys are working on this they've had a lot of time to get a lot of ideas

[01:35:05] and i'm really really hoping for something great here we'll definitely cover it i looked back in our

[01:35:13] catalog and i can't find anywhere where you or you and me or karen and me ever covered 28 days later we

[01:35:20] did cover 28 weeks later early on and i'll put a link for that in the show notes in case anybody's

[01:35:26] curious but um i think you and i at some point before 28 years later comes out we should cover

[01:35:31] 28 days later and then we'll cover 28 years later when it comes out one of my favorite films so yeah

[01:35:36] definitely i can't believe we haven't on this show i mean it's such a great zombie movie

[01:35:40] yeah it is it really is it really is absolutely and so they're hoping to make a trilogy of new

[01:35:48] movies as far as i can tell the second one which is called 28 years later part two the bone temple

[01:35:55] is a go it's also written by alex garland and danny boyle but it will be directed by nia da

[01:36:01] costa who directed a recent candy man reboot and also the mcu movie the marvels and um then after that

[01:36:09] an as yet untitled one also written by garland and boyle so um if the first one does well then

[01:36:16] we'll be getting more after that they have ideas exciting i just want more trailers i don't

[01:36:22] remember maybe that's more cool trailers yeah all right let's move on to listener moans grunts

[01:36:36] deborah ulmer says hi jason lucy and karen i'm so glad that we're back to doing the rewatch i'm still

[01:36:42] listening to the podcast from the beginning my goal is to catch up so i can listen to the first run

[01:36:46] episode and the rewatch back to back for this episode i just had to write in to say that andrea

[01:36:51] irks my nerves throughout it she could have gotten away and or helped milton so many times

[01:36:57] those scenes frustrate me so much every time i watch but some of my favorite moments that get

[01:37:02] me through are the subtle moment when rick apologizes to michonne and how they set up the

[01:37:06] governor and his people with the counter-attack also wanted to let you all know that this was my

[01:37:11] number one podcast on my spotify wrap this year and it was so great to see that thanks and take care

[01:37:16] thanks deborah we'll send you your own personal thank you video seeing a spotify again did not ask

[01:37:22] us to do them this year rude except we're not going to do that but thank you no we're not but thank you

[01:37:27] and uh a few other people have been posting that we're their number one podcast go i mean um

[01:37:34] spotify podcasts which is pretty cool excellent yeah it's nice to see you in it thanks for doing that

[01:37:40] deborah josie bonectil says one of my least favorite episodes of the series i hate this episode

[01:37:47] for all the false hope it brings it's like how lucy said last week it's ruined because we know how it

[01:37:52] all ends i don't know what she means i mean is she talking about andrea or or what yeah maybe knowing

[01:37:59] that andrea is going to meet such a grim end in the episode she says i must say i love tyrese such an

[01:38:05] underutilized and underdeveloped character milton dropping the pliers for andrea was a great moment

[01:38:10] it's frustrating that she still couldn't get away from him without a bite even with one hand free

[01:38:15] honestly i don't think that's too believable given her character and how savvy she's supposed to be at

[01:38:20] this point in the za but i understand the plot needed her to go at least she got to see her people

[01:38:25] before she went out martina is such a yes man in this episode you can do better man he even had the

[01:38:32] opportunity to go to off the governor himself damn yeah i was i was kind of thinking that when he was

[01:38:37] standing there with his gun in the aftermath alan tried and failed yeah that's right he got shot right

[01:38:44] in the head man that's such a crazy scene uh she goes on excited to see what season four brings and

[01:38:49] to hear your coverage on all the details of this episode happy to hear your voice again karen

[01:38:54] not an og's listener but when i first discovered the pot i went back to the original seasons

[01:38:59] nice josey oh thanks josey andy fisher says dear jayloo the pinheads are truly fucking with the

[01:39:06] wrong people i love your rewatch discussion of the walking dead season three the characters are so

[01:39:11] well thought out the writing the look the directing what a terrific episode my favorite part of this

[01:39:17] episode is the switch about halfway through the episode with the governor killing his own troops in

[01:39:22] a crazy self-destructive rage jayloo i miss your walking dead timeline discussion where does

[01:39:29] season three take place in the walking dead universe and i love your segment only in the walking dead

[01:39:33] i'm curious what your thoughts are about michonne forgiving rick for almost trading her to the

[01:39:38] governor i think we did cover that andy so i hope that was satisfactory in a different universe michonne

[01:39:44] returning to the prison with her machete after being freed by myrtle could have gone in a very michael

[01:39:48] myer's revenge direction i can't wait to hear your thoughts on season four coming up karen we miss you

[01:39:54] that makes me think of um steal my sunshine karen i love you um andy says r.i.p andrea frogface and milton

[01:40:06] five pizzas and engagement ring p.s i'm joining patreon for the sole purpose of hearing your critique of the

[01:40:12] later seasons of the walking dead oh fear the walking dead fear the walking dead in terms of the timeline

[01:40:18] discussion andy this is june to july of 2011 which is the is less than a year after the turn so we're 313

[01:40:28] days in yeah and that is um fairly close to how long we've been doing this rewatch we've been doing

[01:40:37] it a little bit longer because we started in october of last year and it's now december but

[01:40:42] somewhere in the range oh the things we've done all right andrea abarka says hi jason and lucy and

[01:40:51] karen hope you're all well i haven't written in a bit but i've been listening to you as always and

[01:40:56] enjoying the rewatch with you as a daryl fangirl i wanted to add to your conversation about his emotional

[01:41:01] moments he's had more than a few along the way hope these are not spoilers i'm assuming at this point

[01:41:06] everyone has seen them yeah i mean we're talking about the daryl show so hopefully you guys watch that

[01:41:11] fingers crossed this is a walking dead podcast uh so i'm not good at remembering the episode names

[01:41:15] but after negan killed glenn and daryl escaped the sanctuary there was a scene where he and maggie

[01:41:21] are hiding he breaks down about glenn saying it's his fault and maggie comforts him oh yeah that was

[01:41:27] at hilltop he was hiding yeah yeah they were in the pantry basically right they were both so good in

[01:41:33] that scene i remember bawling my eyes out that was a good scene there was also the scene where rick

[01:41:37] blows up the bridge and of course the scenes with carol it's true that daryl is sometimes stoic in

[01:41:43] his emotions but i think when they allow him to really play them out it just makes them all the

[01:41:47] more heart-wrenching yeah that's true if he was just crying all the time then he'd be like get a grip

[01:41:52] buddy anyway that's my two cents about daryl i actually watched this week's episode i've only been

[01:41:59] listening not watching i'd forgotten so much the governor shooting down all his people because they didn't

[01:42:04] want to fight is something that had totally slipped my mind as for andrea i never liked the character

[01:42:09] but her ending is always sad i love the way the scene was filmed with daryl tyrese and rick in the

[01:42:15] dark hall waiting and when the gun goes off the look on their faces it's very emotional i sometimes

[01:42:20] forget all these tragic but beautiful moments the walking dead gave us yeah absolutely thank you for

[01:42:26] giving me an opportunity to remember you guys are my absolute favorites oh lots of love andrea abarka p.s

[01:42:32] i did not like carl in this episode i couldn't help but laugh when he was giving rick a quote speech

[01:42:37] if i had spoken to my dad like that apocalypse or not he would have grounded me to my prison cell

[01:42:42] for a week okay now i'm done bye what if you had a gun in your hand then and you just killed someone

[01:42:48] would your dad tell you to go to your room oh man

[01:42:55] oh andrea amazing um rachel teal edward says you kill or you die or you die and you kill

[01:43:02] so profound governor michonne is so understanding like way more understanding than any normal person

[01:43:08] would be but that was a cute scene between her and rick i can't believe i was blindsided by their

[01:43:14] first kiss their chemistry seems so obvious now terry standing up to the governor was so hot

[01:43:19] we'll stay here and defend the children such character and integrity it took for them to

[01:43:24] recognize the craziness and take the risk of basically just setting a strong but unusual

[01:43:28] boundary no governor we're not killing on your behalf john 5 29 yet another perfectly chosen and

[01:43:35] powerful verse in biblical context jesus is explaining to the jews who want to kill him that

[01:43:40] any authority he has comes from the father including the eventual judgment of good and evil and

[01:43:45] at the day of the resurrection the good will have eternal life and evil will be condemned to hell

[01:43:51] out of biblical context if we are assuming this is herschel's bible and he did the highlighting

[01:43:56] i see it as herschel making a statement to the governor that this is judgment day and good will

[01:44:01] prevail over evil flame emoji or carl just got really into reading the bible off camera identified a little

[01:44:08] too much with jesus and the father son narrative developed a messiah complex and used this verse to justify

[01:44:13] anyone murdering anyone he judges as evil as possible speaking of which i like how carl straight up lies

[01:44:20] at first about the kid drawing on them and then he blames rick for setting a bad example by not killing

[01:44:24] people i did what i had to do okay this is where that misdevelopmental stage of adolescence is really

[01:44:31] starting to show yikes some of my own personal judgments alan really was weak he died proving that

[01:44:37] point you just watched this man kill at least a dozen of his own people and you're hesitating

[01:44:41] bye karen yes thank you just play dead until he leaves seeing such a smart move was so refreshing

[01:44:49] 10 out of 10 self-preservation instincts right there martinez staying with the governor gross but i guess

[01:44:55] they ditch him soon after this maybe also some self-preservation going on at this point

[01:44:59] beth and carol confidently killing walkers as the others leave for woodbury badass again refreshing to

[01:45:05] see how far they've come andrea's long ass pauses as she tries to break fee free o m g that death scene

[01:45:14] was actually really emotional though i know how the safety works r.i.p andrea we will barely miss you

[01:45:21] lucy i really enjoyed listening to you and peter a couple weeks ago rachel such a fun rapport plus i

[01:45:26] appreciate all of your parks and rec references at least one of them made me laugh out loud bye

[01:45:35] rachel you've made me think milton trying to kill the governor was pretty brave as well

[01:45:40] yeah yeah that's true the milton yeah finally has decided in this episode that he's not going to

[01:45:49] sit still and grow up here watch yeah the governor yeah i can't believe you have not watched parks and

[01:45:57] wreck yeah i know you should rectify that i mean i always hear oh it gets really good in season two

[01:46:04] so that is probably one of the things that stops me from diving in because i don't like to skip

[01:46:08] seasons season one's only six episodes you can watch oh it is yeah oh i was thinking it was like 22

[01:46:15] episodes no season one's only six oh shit all right i'm going for it do it right now

[01:46:22] all right julie heron says hello jason hello lucy greetings from portugal i'm so happy that i can

[01:46:30] listen to people that are still interested to talk about the walking dead a little bit about me i

[01:46:34] started the walking dead 14 years ago and it was with game game of thrones my favorite tv show but

[01:46:40] then i lost interest when noah died in season five his death was too gruesome and felt gratuitous and

[01:46:45] pointless to me oh i love that one so much the revolving door but i was sad to lose the character

[01:46:50] though i heard bits and parts of the following seasons from my sister until she tapped out when

[01:46:55] carl died understandable i went back into the universe the beginning of this year when i learned

[01:47:00] that rick and michonne had a spinoff and were a couple wow she just learned that they were a couple

[01:47:04] that's interesting being aware that rick was supposed to end with andrea i was intrigued about

[01:47:09] it and i ended up being sucked back into this universe after finishing the spinoff i decided to go

[01:47:13] back to memory lane and watch the entire show what a ride i think of me starting the show in my early

[01:47:19] 20s and now in my late 30s so many things have changed for me but also for the world i can definitely

[01:47:25] say that now it's my comfort show my perspective for some characters and storylines are so different

[01:47:31] when i started to watch it back then here's a few of my takes on season three i don't fault laurie

[01:47:36] anymore for the shane situation when she thought rick was dead but i think the fact that she was angry

[01:47:41] and a bit disgusted at rick when she learned that carl put zombie shane down was the turning point in the

[01:47:47] end of their marriage and also the beginning of rick tatorship yeah totally this last rejection when

[01:47:52] he needed to be supported was for me something that can't be forgivable you and rick too i appreciate

[01:47:58] the softness of tyrese way more than the first time that i watched it back then i thought he was weak

[01:48:06] 2010s me was toxic as hell but now i have such respect for his character and the fact that he didn't

[01:48:12] want to lose his humanity i'm also a bit sad that him and sasha lost time with the governor

[01:48:17] i wish crazy town rick would be coming a bit later in the season so they didn't have to flee

[01:48:22] to a worse situation seeing michonne being so suspicious of the governor when nothing really

[01:48:27] can explain her behavior made me think a lot about me and how most of my life i've seen red flags

[01:48:32] and people way before everyone and i was seen as a bit paranoid when i was voicing my concern

[01:48:37] it's funny when you see some parts of you on screen you can see the perspective for the others around

[01:48:43] you because i do understand andrea in the beginning not in the beginning not understanding her so she's

[01:48:49] saying she used to be more like michonne paranoid and untrusting but now she can more understand

[01:48:55] andrea than she couldn't before i yeah i'm the same way i think i was probably always trusting but

[01:49:02] i think a lot of people get more like that as they get older more compassionate definitely anyway

[01:49:08] i'm really um conflicted about andrea as i think she was still a badass but at the same time such a

[01:49:14] bad judge of character to the point that it didn't make sense to me by killing her they wanted to open

[01:49:20] the door for rick and michonne's love story but i think in the tv show it was there quite quickly the

[01:49:25] way they looked at each other since day one the clear episode and the line it might be something else

[01:49:30] then in the last episode of season three show their incomparable chemistry and i never saw it between

[01:49:35] rick and andrea no i don't think so either i agree uh and when the when andrea first appeared on the

[01:49:43] show she and rick i don't think were a couple in the comic yet i don't know if kirkman ever thought

[01:49:50] they would be on the show yeah i don't know um she says oh well i think it's enough for this time i

[01:49:57] can't wait to listen to season four which is probably my favorite season now that i'm currently

[01:50:03] obsessed with the show i have nobody to talk to as everybody moved on or never watch it so finding

[01:50:07] your podcast was everything i'm waiting every monday for your episode and listen to you guys

[01:50:12] and hearing a different perspective from myself i hope you'll keep doing the rewatch as long as you

[01:50:17] feel feel it because i will be listening julie a french girl who loved your pronunciation for

[01:50:23] the daryl show cover oh that's nice all right a couple calls here's steve brown let's do it

[01:50:33] hello the cast of us jason lucy and welcome back karen can't wait to hear you loved hearing you on

[01:50:39] the podcast and love that you're coming back for at least this one uh we're starting the season three

[01:50:44] finale welcome to the tombs what is this loss starting on an eye oh it's the governor's eye

[01:50:50] and the closed captioning gives away that he is torturing milton but we should have known that

[01:50:54] with a dialogue right oh this is a sinister creepy governor you take the heads oh milton left

[01:51:01] something on the ground there beneath andrea yeah i remembered that uh milton trying to kill the

[01:51:06] governor now he's gonna leave him in the room with andrea isn't he oh that was a long cold open

[01:51:10] i'm gonna try not to go long on this one arl has the picture of him and laurie and rick that they

[01:51:16] got from the bar right uh he and michonne and that's we need to watch that yes they're bugging

[01:51:21] out okay so michonne and rick are having a talk about the deal he made with the governor and the

[01:51:25] fact that he didn't do it so there it is oh when the war begins well looks like they cleared out

[01:51:31] governor and who's going to be the resurrection of life and the resurrection of destruction

[01:51:36] from the bible meanwhile back in woodbury andrea and milton milton still alive are trying to figure

[01:51:42] out a way to escape well milton's resigned himself to death but we'll see oh i didn't realize i guess

[01:51:47] they are still in the prison and uh they just lured the governor his man into a trap huh governor

[01:51:53] and his men just left okay i i don't remember how this plays out oh i do remember this though with

[01:51:58] carl and this kid with the gun yeah i know this becomes a big deal uh in the future with carl shooting

[01:52:03] this guy this kid um i think his finger was on the trigger of that shotgun i don't know it's

[01:52:10] questionable but still i think carl was right even though later the writers decided that he thought

[01:52:15] he wasn't right i did not remember the governor gunning down his own people and one woman survives

[01:52:23] by hiding under the dead body wow this is tense with andrea and milton and again i don't remember

[01:52:28] i remember kind of how it ends but i don't remember exactly okay what might this is an offense be of

[01:52:33] carl dropping the badge but still i don't know once again what's in the back of that truck that's

[01:52:39] covered up with the tarp why what's the point of that truck that rick is driving as he and michonne

[01:52:44] and daryl are going after the governor's men and they just found the survivor of the governor's

[01:52:49] tirade oh and milton and andrea meanwhile back at woodbury oh the survivor is the karen right i

[01:52:55] remember her from the future oh so the governor hasn't come back to woodbury oh milton got andrea

[01:53:01] okay that's a joke right andrea is saying i don't know how the safety work because works because

[01:53:06] there's no safety on a revolver and you know rick's gonna get his gun back oh and she did it

[01:53:12] while michonne was with her okay so this is how everyone else ends up back at the prison because

[01:53:17] they bring everybody who's left at woodbury back to the prison what is under that tarp and rick does

[01:53:23] not see lori's ghost all right on to season four what tarp i'm living for steve's tarp truther he's like

[01:53:32] i'm a tarp truther what's under the tarp i'm like i don't remember the tarp at all guess we'll never

[01:53:38] know steve it's funny steven i forget who one other listener did not remember the governor gunning down

[01:53:45] all his people i can't i don't see how you could forget that i think i thought it happened next season

[01:53:52] um but yeah it's yeah i wasn't actually sure as as it was coming i'm like oh oh i think it's

[01:53:59] coming right now i it was earlier than i remembered too so i guess i kind of forgot to but i i remembered

[01:54:05] it happened at some point because that scene really stands out as one of the governor starkest moments

[01:54:13] honestly and one more call from renee hi jason hi lucy hi karen this is renee calling in again

[01:54:20] okay let's get it popping the governor is totally unhinged totally he has he has flipped his lid he has

[01:54:28] totally lost his mind he is psycho he is crazy and i don't understand his people the governor hitchman

[01:54:37] were looking like what the hell i know this fool didn't just kill his own people they were looking

[01:54:43] just like negan's folks when he did something psychotic but yet they still stayed baby i would

[01:54:48] have snuck out the back door whenever i got a chance and they could have tag team his ass they

[01:54:53] could have tag team the governor it was two of them and both of them was looking oblivious i do not

[01:54:58] understand that there's no way there's no way there's just no way and the budding relationship between

[01:55:06] our people in the prison is the reason why i fell in love with the walking dead it's not the family you

[01:55:13] was born into but it's about the family you build and you can truly tell that they care about one

[01:55:19] another even merle saw it that's why merle did what he did because he realized that he was not going

[01:55:27] to be accepted however they loved his little brother and merle wanted to give him a chance so r.i.p

[01:55:34] tomorrow and listen the looks between rick and michonne is sizzling i'm thinking that they didn't

[01:55:45] even understand the connection between them but as a viewer i can see it i saw it from the very

[01:55:52] beginning when they were talking about the baby formula and michonne said you could have taken the

[01:55:57] formula and rick responded about it must have been something else and he did his little mouth the exact

[01:56:03] same way in the ones who live when he was asking about rj and he asked michonne is he stubborn

[01:56:11] and michonne responded by saying like his daddy and rick said like his mama oh my god i melted when

[01:56:18] he said that he sounded so cute and his little you could you his southern accent when he said mama

[01:56:25] he said oh man i'm telling y'all i get giddy when i think about rick grimes i love me some rick

[01:56:33] grimes i love me some rick grimes now um sasha and and her brother i'm so glad that they stood up to

[01:56:46] the governor because you could tell that they had morals and integrity therese and sasha was a good fit

[01:56:54] for our group and i'm happy that they joined our group now andrea she was talking too much and she

[01:57:02] was moving like a duck when she knew that milton was dying baby let me tell you something i would

[01:57:07] have been cutting them fly them i would have had them pliers i would have been cutting so quick and she

[01:57:12] was just still sitting there running her mouth it's like girl close your mouth yeah hurry up and cut

[01:57:17] whatever them those shackles talking cut at the same time out of that that's why you did because you talk

[01:57:21] to them much you talk entirely too much and call listen jason and lucy i know that y'all were saying that

[01:57:29] carl was turning into a psychopath but that baby was growing up in the z8 watching regular people that

[01:57:35] look normal try to kill them and to me his actions was warranted when he killed that young man because he

[01:57:42] didn't know if that young man was tricking them to thinking that he was going to drop his gun and then

[01:57:47] turn around and shoot them so i feel like he did what he was supposed to do he didn't want to get

[01:57:52] car slipping so i feel like he get a pass now however i am glad that herschel told rick that you know

[01:57:59] you need to help carl because carl carl could possibly turn into a psychopath possibly but that that

[01:58:08] actual scene i agree with what carl did and i also agree that you know i agree with what herschel did

[01:58:14] as well like lucy always say two things can be true at the same time carl you know like i said that

[01:58:19] that little boy get a pass i love carl and it just is what it is i love him now rick grimes let me

[01:58:27] tell you something he is so tactical and that man stands on business he was ready for the governor he was

[01:58:35] ready the governor like rick grimes i love this man just just everything about him he he does not

[01:58:42] play like i say he stands on business do not come for rick grimes the only time i can i feel like the

[01:58:48] rick grimes got car slipping is with negan and i don't even blame rick i blame jesus because he didn't

[01:58:54] tell tell him everything that he needed to know about negan rick grimes like i say again and i'm

[01:59:01] going to continue to say this that man stands on business and i don't know if you guys know that

[01:59:08] roshone got voted one of the best tv couples of 2024 so for all these naysayers out here and all

[01:59:17] these people that's saying they do not have chemistry too bad so sad what about that if they got voted one

[01:59:24] of the best couples a lot of people see it y'all just choose not to see it all righty i will talk to you guys

[01:59:30] later peace and love r.i.p tomorrow hmm andrea and pola milton all righty bye yeah

[01:59:40] bully forgot about jesus the character and was like thinking that we're talking about the son of god in

[01:59:48] the walking dead and i was like yeah that would be wrong he did rick wrong he really did um i get it

[01:59:54] now i didn't tell about negan i know the lord did not inform us about negan sorry um that was brilliant

[02:00:04] renee thanks renee all right that is our show episode 616 thanks for listening everybody um

[02:00:16] thanks again to karen for coming on oh it was so great to talk to her maybe she'll want to

[02:00:21] cover 28 days later with us that would be cool cool next episode we're doing something a little

[02:00:27] different because it's you know we're over a season i know we just had the break with the daryl show but

[02:00:33] we're at the end of a season and also it's holiday time and the show um silo is on and amelie and

[02:00:42] veronica and i when that first season came out two years ago we did an episode in the middle of

[02:00:48] this season and one at the end so we might do that again um we're definitely going to do one in

[02:00:54] the middle next time so next week is what i'm trying to say is it's me and amelie and veronica

[02:00:59] covering silo season two episodes one through six this is this um sci-fi dystopia mystery apple tv

[02:01:07] plus show have you watched it at all i haven't no my apple tv plus uh ran out i need to renew it

[02:01:14] because i want to see platonic and the buccaneers again so yeah yeah there's a bunch of good shows

[02:01:18] on there i think you'd like this one um the main character is played by rebecca rebecca ferguson

[02:01:25] and she's the sheriff so good she's really good yeah in this show it's made me like her more than

[02:01:30] i did before for sure that'll be next time good if you want to write in or leave us a voice message

[02:01:35] about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com while you're there maybe you might

[02:01:42] want to check out our star wars tv cast coverage of the new skeleton crew series with paik and daphne

[02:01:50] hosting they're about to come out with their first episode as i speak but i think it will be out by the

[02:01:56] time you hear me excellent this episode is made possible by patreon supporters like tammy danis

[02:02:03] mcclaud who pledged their support at patreon.com slash jason cabassi so thank you to tammy and

[02:02:11] thank you to everyone else who contributes to that i really appreciate it very much in fact i don't even

[02:02:17] know if i would still be podcasting if you weren't doing that so uh you make it possible for me to keep

[02:02:22] going with it all this time and i and i really appreciate it and if you want to pledge you can go on

[02:02:28] and search for fear the walking dead and hear me and a bunch of other people talking tons of

[02:02:33] shit about it all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit laura linton yeah don't do it

[02:02:45] we are theresa and nemo and therefore we are to shopify

[02:02:49] we have switched the platform before shopify has used to have regularly updated

[02:02:53] which have often been brought to the shop sometimes not worked for the shop

[02:02:57] finally makes our nemo board shop also on the mobile devices a good figure and the illustrations

[02:03:02] on the boards come now very much clearer what is important and what our mark also makes

[02:03:08] start your test for 1 euro per month on shopify.com radio