617: Silo (S2E1-6)

[00:00:00] Hmm?

[00:00:01] Ah!

[00:00:03] Hmm.

[00:00:04] What's the girl?

[00:00:08] Solo.

[00:00:09] That's not your real name, is it?

[00:00:11] Uh, no, Cole Myers is my name.

[00:00:14] Cole.

[00:00:15] I went to an event and they asked me, who are you with?

[00:00:19] And I said, I'm Solo.

[00:00:21] And Russell's kid was there and he overheard me say that and he thought that was my name.

[00:00:25] Yeah.

[00:00:26] So the name stuck.

[00:00:28] But, but, hey, what's in a name?

[00:00:31] Hmm.

[00:00:32] Right.

[00:00:35] That's from your, your play Romeo and Juliet, Before They Die.

[00:00:39] Before who dies?

[00:00:40] Romeo and Juliet.

[00:00:42] They don't die, no.

[00:00:44] Yeah, they do.

[00:00:45] And ours they do.

[00:01:19] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:21] I'm Jason.

[00:01:22] And I'm Emily.

[00:01:23] And I'm Veronica.

[00:01:25] And this is The Cast of Us episode 617.

[00:01:27] And this episode, we are covering the first six episodes of season two of the Apple TV plus sci-fi dystopian mystery silo.

[00:01:37] Silo.

[00:01:38] And before we get into it, I just want to note for everyone that we're going to be taking a week off for Christmas after this.

[00:01:43] So Merry Christmas to everybody.

[00:01:44] Happy holidays.

[00:01:45] Lucy and I'll be back Monday, January 6 with Walking Dead season four, episode one, 30 days without an accident.

[00:01:54] And hopefully we will have gone 30 days without an accident.

[00:01:57] But now that I got that out of the way, let me say welcome back to I'm Emily and Veronica.

[00:02:02] Good to have you guys back for Silo.

[00:02:04] Yeah, good to be here.

[00:02:06] We, if you guys didn't know who's listening, we covered Silo season one in two parts back in 2022, right?

[00:02:17] It was two years ago when it came out because it got delayed because of the writer's strike.

[00:02:23] I think it was 2022.

[00:02:25] That seems right.

[00:02:26] I think so.

[00:02:28] Or maybe it was 20.

[00:02:29] Maybe it was last year.

[00:02:30] Either way.

[00:02:32] We covered it in two parts.

[00:02:33] And so now we're back and I think the plan is to do the same.

[00:02:37] So there are six episodes into their 10 episode season right now.

[00:02:40] So we're, we're going to be talking about the first six episodes.

[00:02:44] I just binged through all six episodes yesterday for the first time.

[00:02:49] I've only seen them once.

[00:02:50] I didn't leave the house.

[00:02:51] I felt like I was in a silo a little bit.

[00:02:55] And Veronica, you were just saying you watched it once, but then you binged through it again just today.

[00:03:01] Yeah.

[00:03:01] So from like, I watched episode rewatched episode one last night, but then I did two through five.

[00:03:07] I've all, I finished episode, I mean six, two through six.

[00:03:11] I finished episode six, like 20 minutes before we started podcasting.

[00:03:16] So I think it's such a slow burn that this is actually a great way to watch the series.

[00:03:22] Yeah.

[00:03:23] I would almost recommend to people to wait until a few are out before you start watching it.

[00:03:28] Otherwise you'll just be like, get a little bit of story and be like, that's it.

[00:03:32] Come on.

[00:03:33] Yeah.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:37] So I'll just tell you a little bit about it.

[00:03:40] It's the sci-fi dystopian TV series on Apple TV plus.

[00:03:44] It's based on the wool series of novels by author Hugh Howey.

[00:03:49] Uh, synopsis is in a dystopian future where a community exists in a giant silo, hundreds of stories, deep underground, 10,000 people live in a society full of regulations.

[00:04:00] They believe are meant to protect them, but some wonder if they've been lied to about why the silo was created and why they're here.

[00:04:08] It stars, uh, Rebecca Ferguson.

[00:04:11] She's the main character, Juliet.

[00:04:13] Also Tim Robbins, common Steve's on, uh, Harriet Walter, Avi Nash, who was Sadiq in the walking dead and a bunch of other people.

[00:04:23] And it, uh, premiered.

[00:04:25] Oh, I guess it premiered last year, 2023 and season two started six weeks ago.

[00:04:29] And of course we'd recommend it.

[00:04:31] I mean, we were back for season two.

[00:04:33] Um, I think it's not just like, I wouldn't say if you love the walking dead, you're going to love this.

[00:04:40] It has some things in common.

[00:04:41] It's kind of post-apocalyptic, but, um, it's, it's a well-produced slow burn dystopian mystery.

[00:04:48] It's almost kind of noir-ish and it's one of those shows where things might not be what they seem.

[00:04:53] So if that, if all of that sounds good to you, I would, I would recommend it for this podcast.

[00:04:57] We presume that you've seen season one and we probably won't rehash that all that much.

[00:05:02] And, and that you're caught up with the first six episodes of season two.

[00:05:05] So if you, if you haven't watched this and you don't want to be spoiled, I would just skip the podcast.

[00:05:10] And if you're curious, go back and watch season one, listen to our two podcasts on it.

[00:05:14] If you want some discussion, I'll put a link in the show notes for all of that.

[00:05:18] Would you guys agree with everything I said, or would you disagree with any of it?

[00:05:22] I do.

[00:05:23] Yeah, I agree.

[00:05:24] I feel even with season two, I feel even more strongly like about recommending the show to people.

[00:05:30] I think things are picking up more and there's more like dynamic.

[00:05:35] Uh, I don't know.

[00:05:37] Something feels more, it's drawing me in even more this season.

[00:05:40] So I've been telling more people about it in the last month.

[00:05:43] That's cool.

[00:05:45] There's this one blogger that I have read for years, probably 20 years now.

[00:05:51] He writes mostly about Apple stuff.

[00:05:53] And that's kind of why he's probably writing about this because it's on Apple TV plus.

[00:05:57] He is hating season two.

[00:05:59] He says it's really boring.

[00:06:00] And so I read that and I was like, oh shit, we're, we're supposed to do a podcast about it.

[00:06:05] So then I started watching it kind of, you know, expecting it not to be great.

[00:06:10] And I loved it.

[00:06:10] I mean, it's slow, but the first season was slow too.

[00:06:13] And it's a slow burn and I really enjoyed watching it and getting back into the world of it.

[00:06:18] So, uh, I still respect this guy, but I think, um, he should stick to the Apple content.

[00:06:24] Yeah.

[00:06:25] Yeah.

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:26] That's surprising.

[00:06:27] I don't think it's slower.

[00:06:29] I mean, if the story gets more and more complex, like I don't see anyway, different opinions, I guess, but yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:36] It's all subjective for sure.

[00:06:38] So we're going to do what we did.

[00:06:40] Uh, this is not our usual deep dive into a single episode.

[00:06:44] We're just going to go through each one and say a little bit about what we thought about it.

[00:06:51] Um, we haven't had as much time to like craft and organize our thoughts, so it might be a little, uh, all over the place, but, uh, we'll give you a kind of an idea of what we thought about each episode.

[00:07:02] And we'll start by reading the synopsis for each one.

[00:07:05] So season two, episode one is titled the engineer in a flashback.

[00:07:11] The revolution of silo 17 takes place and its population escapes into the outside world.

[00:07:16] In the present, Juliet breaks into silo 17 by climbing through the corpses of its dead inhabitants littered outside the entrance.

[00:07:25] Juliet explores the silos, upper levels to find it entirely abandoned while the lower levels had flooded.

[00:07:31] She finds that the bridge leading into the IT department has been destroyed.

[00:07:36] So she builds a makeshift bridge, which collapses after she gets across in a flashback.

[00:07:41] Young Juliet starts her new life on the mechanical level where she helps sort through trash from the upper levels and befriends Shirley.

[00:07:48] After struggling with her new position, she impresses the other workers by fixing a broken toy and begins working under Walker.

[00:07:55] In the present, Juliet continues exploring and follows the sound of music to the locked vault door in the IT department.

[00:08:02] After J after Juliet fails to open the door, a man on the other side warns her that if she tries again, he will kill her.

[00:08:10] Well, I thought it was interesting. Like this whole episode is like Juliet centered, right? Like, yeah, it's all about her.

[00:08:17] And because last season, we saw her leave the silo.

[00:08:22] She was banished because they lied and said that she has to go out.

[00:08:27] And then she was the only one ever to not die immediately and to walk over the hill.

[00:08:32] And we're like, holy shit, what's going to happen next? Where's she going to go?

[00:08:35] Oh, so now we spend a whole episode getting to see where she went, which I think was a good choice.

[00:08:39] You know, focus on that.

[00:08:41] It's interesting because we get a better idea of who she is, like with the flashbacks and even in the present and how smart she is.

[00:08:50] And how smart she was like, even when she was little and joined it down deep when she fixed that toy.

[00:08:58] And even though like, it's pretty much just her, like the scenes in the present, but it wasn't boring at all for me.

[00:09:04] Like I thought she was just like so smart, like the way she would like engineer stuff and create like what she had to create to get to the guy in the vault.

[00:09:16] So it just made me like Juliet more.

[00:09:20] And I think it's good.

[00:09:24] It's good that we have an episode centered on her, even though like she has plot armor.

[00:09:30] It could make, you know, a character more boring, but it did the opposite.

[00:09:34] I think that that was like a good episode for that.

[00:09:37] She, I agree with you.

[00:09:39] She has plot armor, but the one sort of caveat to that is that this series started out focused on other characters.

[00:09:49] I don't think she even came in until the second episode, right?

[00:09:53] If I remember right.

[00:09:53] And they killed them off quickly.

[00:09:55] So when a show does something like that, I, you might think that, that you can't really bank on anything for sure, but I don't know.

[00:10:05] I think you're right though.

[00:10:06] I think she'll be around until the end.

[00:10:08] I agree with that.

[00:10:09] Amelie.

[00:10:10] I really liked one of the, I guess a few things like upon first watching that first episode and seeing the flashbacks.

[00:10:18] I like that.

[00:10:18] We're seeing more of like how broad Juliet's character is.

[00:10:24] So she's obviously very strong.

[00:10:25] She can be very, very stoic, but she also like fixed a toy that everyone else wanted to throw away and then gave it to Shirley.

[00:10:32] Like you see the softness in her too, which I think is also important for, you know, I guess what I saw in her interactions with Solo in episodes to come.

[00:10:44] It sets that up, but I think just makes her more like continuing to make her more well-rounded character.

[00:10:50] And then also like, I thought it was interesting to see more of her and Shirley's relationship and just understanding why, why Juliet is so loved by all the people in mechanical and sort of, I guess to me, justifying more why there's so much unrest.

[00:11:10] I think if anyone had walked out in this situation that Juliet did, there would be unrest.

[00:11:15] But I think the fact that we're setting up like why she was so loved and respected by everyone around her.

[00:11:21] Yeah.

[00:11:22] I think some of that flashback sort of set that up even more clearly for me.

[00:11:27] And their family, their family down there.

[00:11:29] They are.

[00:11:30] And even the characters who don't like her that much, like her boss Knox, who says she's a pain in the ass, also says that he, he totally respects her, you know?

[00:11:40] So I think, yeah, she's, she's, she's just very well respected.

[00:11:47] And I agree with both of you are saying, I think, you know, I think the reason why this Apple blogger maybe, or at least I suspect isn't as into it is because he wants to find out more of the answers quicker.

[00:12:00] And this episode is driven by our desire to find out the answers, the mysteries, what is in the other silos, what, what happened, what is going on.

[00:12:11] But what it's really about is what you guys are saying.

[00:12:13] It's showing her character.

[00:12:15] And I already was really liking her by the end of last season, but here you just see her.

[00:12:20] Yeah.

[00:12:20] Being smart, resourceful, brave.

[00:12:26] She's, I kind of like that she just went out knowing that she probably was going to die, but she'd rather do that than live in this world where everything is a lie and she's lost so much, you know?

[00:12:40] And she's just like, fuck it.

[00:12:42] There's something about that that endears me to her too.

[00:12:45] But she was forced to go out though.

[00:12:48] She never said, I want to go out.

[00:12:50] That's true.

[00:12:50] Yeah.

[00:12:51] I forgot about that.

[00:12:52] Huh?

[00:12:52] Well, yeah, I guess you're right.

[00:12:53] But I still feel like, um, she said in a later episode that it was a relief to get out of there, even though she, um, then she was telling solo and it's okay to talk about other episodes, even though we're not there yet, that, uh, she was trying to identify with him that she, she's scared too.

[00:13:13] So she was telling him that she was scared out there.

[00:13:15] But part of that was also that she was surprised to find herself feeling relieved, which I, I found endearing.

[00:13:21] Yeah.

[00:13:22] One of the things to me, I just thought this was an exciting way to start the entire season off and what drew me in.

[00:13:28] And I think what set my sort of different feeling in general for the season was just the sort of excitement of all the things she had to go through.

[00:13:38] And also just like imagining how terrified I would have been and how sort of calmly she was going through, just like stepping over dead bodies literally everywhere.

[00:13:48] Um, in addition to the fact that she's walking out literally into another planet for her based on what she's grown up for.

[00:13:56] But then like she wanders down into a completely dark abandoned silo with all these bodies strewn, strewn everywhere.

[00:14:05] Um, with that nasty freaking cut, which I wrote down early on in my notes before seeing what transpired.

[00:14:16] That was like a cut without antibiotics in this like nasty water is not a good sign.

[00:14:22] And that's what happened.

[00:14:24] Yeah.

[00:14:25] And then she's alone.

[00:14:28] She's gone through all that.

[00:14:29] And then she follows like, would I have followed the music probably, but also another like pretty creepy, scary thing to be happening.

[00:14:37] As I just felt like for a show that I felt like last season moved kind of slowly, that felt like a lot of, to me, a lot of excitement and sort of fear all up in one episode.

[00:14:47] I liked it.

[00:14:49] It gave me a little bit of diehard vibes this episode.

[00:14:52] You know, she has a similar attitude to John McClane where he's brave and he does what needs to be done, but he's also a little rattled sometimes, you know, like, oh shit.

[00:15:03] And it was great the way it was staged, the way she used her engineering skills to build that bridge.

[00:15:09] But then it was rickety and it didn't work.

[00:15:10] And she's like, fuck.

[00:15:12] And then she did one that was better.

[00:15:14] And just, I don't know.

[00:15:15] It's really fun to watch all that.

[00:15:17] Yeah. And I, I like when shows like I've said this about The Walking Dead a lot, but where they'll have long sequences with no dialogue as long as what you're watching is interesting.

[00:15:27] And this, a lot of this episode was like that.

[00:15:31] And I was, I was super into it.

[00:15:32] I was, I was almost when I started up the next episode, kind of bummed to go back into the normal stuff.

[00:15:39] And I'm like, oh, now I have to think and figure out mysteries and stuff.

[00:15:42] And it was fun to just watch this little action movie for a little while.

[00:15:46] Yeah. I'm glad she wasn't barefoot though.

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:49] Like, but it's true.

[00:15:51] Like there's no dialogues, but I think the show did really well with this episode because people are not really talking of showing us like what's going through her head and like what she discovers.

[00:16:02] Like at some point, for example, she sees that a mirror is smashed in one of the apartments and she sees a camera in there, which is a clue of what happened in the past.

[00:16:14] Probably like people found out about cameras.

[00:16:16] I mean, it's like, we don't know what's in these other silos and we only know what's in hers.

[00:16:22] And that last season they figured out that there were cameras behind the mirrors.

[00:16:25] So knowing now, oh, there's cameras in this silo too.

[00:16:29] It makes you realize, okay, they didn't just get installed in this other silo that it was probably built into the silos from the start.

[00:16:38] I mean, that's an assumption, but it seems more possible now that that's what happened because of this, you know?

[00:16:45] So it sort of answers a little bit of the, I mean, very little, but more questions that we have.

[00:16:51] But we can suppose that it's a bigger network than we were led to believe in season one, you know?

[00:16:58] Yeah.

[00:17:00] I think two other really important things in this episode are, one is super important, this flashback that we got, because it shows that the people in this silo, number 17, right?

[00:17:13] We learned that Juliet silo is 18 and this is number 17.

[00:17:16] And that people got pissed because they wanted to go out.

[00:17:21] They wanted answers.

[00:17:22] We find out later that it was because someone went out and didn't die.

[00:17:27] And so that's what caused them to just be like, why are we trapped here?

[00:17:32] It's fine outside.

[00:17:33] We need to go.

[00:17:34] And so then they rebelled.

[00:17:36] There was a war and they escaped and they all died.

[00:17:39] As soon as they went out, I just thought, okay, now we're going to see Juliet find a bunch of dead bodies.

[00:17:45] And that's what happened.

[00:17:47] But it was like even more disturbing than you thought because she has to walk over all their skeletal corpses.

[00:17:55] So there's that, which we can talk about.

[00:17:57] But I also just want to mention that the character of Solo, who she meets in this episode, right?

[00:18:04] Yeah.

[00:18:04] And the way that he talked, I thought, ah, this is, I love this performance.

[00:18:11] Whoever's doing this, it's such a good performance.

[00:18:16] I don't know how to describe it, but quirky and kind of human, you know?

[00:18:21] And it really penetrates.

[00:18:24] It's like brings some life to the show that can be a little stiff sometimes.

[00:18:29] And I loved that.

[00:18:31] And then when he finally stepped out in the next episode or whenever it was, and it was Steve Zahn who played the guy from White Lotus, Mark Mossbacher.

[00:18:42] I was like, yes, that is so great.

[00:18:44] I love that guy.

[00:18:46] He's also recently been, if you haven't watched The Righteous Gemstones, you really need to watch that show.

[00:18:52] But his character in that show is really, really funny.

[00:18:55] And all I kept saying this entire season was, oh my gosh, this character was so well cast.

[00:19:01] Like he does it so well.

[00:19:02] Like somehow manages to balance being what could be sort of whiny and annoying and still be like just so damn endearing.

[00:19:13] And engaging.

[00:19:14] And he could be creepy.

[00:19:16] And he is the right amount of creepy.

[00:19:18] But you still like still.

[00:19:19] But also like a little kid.

[00:19:21] And endearing.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:22] That you want to protect.

[00:19:23] It is just phenomenal.

[00:19:25] I'm enjoying him so much in this role.

[00:19:28] Stand out of this season so far, I would say.

[00:19:30] Yes, for sure.

[00:19:30] What do you think, Amal?

[00:19:31] Do you agree with all that?

[00:19:33] Yeah.

[00:19:33] I think he's smart.

[00:19:35] I think he's obviously damaged for being in there.

[00:19:40] We don't know who he is even.

[00:19:43] And by the sixth episode, you find out he's not even who he says.

[00:19:46] It's like, uh.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] He took someone else's identity.

[00:19:50] We don't know why.

[00:19:53] I guess we're going to find out like in the second half.

[00:19:57] One thing I noticed about him.

[00:19:59] I don't know if you noticed, but he has one blue eye and one green eye.

[00:20:03] Like we see that.

[00:20:04] It's like they wanted us to see it.

[00:20:06] Like they show that clearly when we get the shot of like him behind the vault.

[00:20:11] Like when he says to Juliet, I won't let you in.

[00:20:15] Or if you try to come in, I'm going to kill you.

[00:20:16] We see these eyes.

[00:20:18] And later on, I think it's in maybe episode two, it refers to him as having blue eyes.

[00:20:25] Or the other girl like liking his blue eyes.

[00:20:27] In episode four, Juliet asks him about it and he says, I don't want to talk about it.

[00:20:33] She asked what happened to his eye.

[00:20:35] It's like very fast.

[00:20:38] So they do mention it again.

[00:20:40] Yeah.

[00:20:41] And what he didn't want to talk about is that that's just how he is maybe.

[00:20:47] Right.

[00:20:47] And was there like a wound?

[00:20:50] I didn't catch him.

[00:20:52] Like I didn't catch the comment you said about him having blue eyes, like saying that.

[00:20:56] So it's got to be an injury or something.

[00:20:59] Yeah, maybe.

[00:20:59] Or I mean, maybe.

[00:21:02] Yeah, I thought it was just an injury.

[00:21:03] But now that Amelie says he talked about having blue eyes, maybe she was catching him in a lie.

[00:21:11] And so he didn't want to talk about it, you know.

[00:21:14] All right.

[00:21:15] Let's go on to the next one.

[00:21:16] Amelie?

[00:21:17] Okay.

[00:21:18] So the next one, episode two, is called The Order.

[00:21:22] Bernard watches Juliet's suit camera from the inside the vault and sees her approach silo 17 before it cuts off.

[00:21:30] As Juliet refused to clean, Bernard understands that her sign of defiance may lead to revolution.

[00:21:37] He places the deputies under Sims command and sets a mandatory curfew to control the silo's population, who are asking questions about Juliet's survival.

[00:21:47] Bernard tries to convince Meadows to hate him as he prepares to give a speech.

[00:21:52] And as Walker and her ex-wife Scarlett are locked up for smuggling Juliet's tape that sealed her suit.

[00:22:02] Shirley starts riling up the people on the lower levels to demand answers, while Knox tries to convince her otherwise, wanting to avoid a revolution and protect his people.

[00:22:13] Bernard gives a speech to the silo and claims that the IT department produced a new tape that allowed Juliet to survive longer,

[00:22:20] but remains adamant that she is dead and Meadows endorses him.

[00:22:25] While the majority of the silo's population seem pleased with the explanation,

[00:22:29] Shirley remains unconvinced and organizes a secret meeting outside curfew.

[00:22:35] After Bernard thanks Meadows for the help, she demands to be given an environmental suit with good tape in order to go outside.

[00:22:45] What could go wrong?

[00:22:47] I mean.

[00:22:49] So one thing about this show that I still feel critical of is that they, and I've talked about this a lot when we podcasted it before,

[00:22:59] but they send people out and the people, even the ones who say they're not going to clean this camera,

[00:23:06] end up cleaning it because they see a false image in their suit helmet that the world's nice and they want everyone to see that.

[00:23:13] So they clean it off.

[00:23:14] But I mean, you could kind of see through the camera anyway, even though it's a little dirty.

[00:23:20] And also they've already, people who have seen a couple of people go out and clean the camera and you see the wasteland and then they die.

[00:23:29] You'd think that they would just sort of think, okay, something's not as it seems here.

[00:23:34] And they wouldn't all fall for it and be like, oh, it is beautiful.

[00:23:38] I'm going to clean.

[00:23:39] I'm different than everyone else.

[00:23:40] So I don't know.

[00:23:42] That seems a little sketchy to me.

[00:23:44] But then here we have Bernard looking at this book.

[00:23:51] I think it's called The Order, right?

[00:23:55] It's like a, seems like a handbook for what to do to keep everyone in line, basically.

[00:24:01] And it says in the event of a failed cleaning, prepare for war.

[00:24:06] So that suggests that if someone goes out and doesn't clean, that a war is going to start.

[00:24:12] But I think in both cases, in the flashback that we saw for Silo 17 and in 18, we see a lot of unrest happening.

[00:24:20] It's not because Juliet and this other person from Silo 17 didn't clean the camera.

[00:24:25] It's because they lived.

[00:24:26] They walked away.

[00:24:28] And the people were like, wait a minute.

[00:24:30] I thought we couldn't go outside, but it seems like it's okay.

[00:24:32] So it's not like, so I don't get why they think it's so important that people clean.

[00:24:38] And if they don't, they're going to cause problems.

[00:24:40] It just doesn't all really make sense to me.

[00:24:43] And part of me hopes that there's more answers left to be filled there.

[00:24:47] But I also think it might just be a kind of a little flaw in the writing or else I'm just missing something.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:54] I mean, I guess I think of the whole event as the cleaning of sending someone out versus just whether they actually clean.

[00:25:01] And so if that whole thing doesn't go to protocol.

[00:25:05] But yeah, if the person didn't clean and still fell down and died, then that should still be fine.

[00:25:16] Like I think I agree with what you're saying.

[00:25:19] Well, I thought that's what I thought.

[00:25:20] And I thought, okay, I guess when this book says if in the event of a failed cleaning prepared for war, it considered someone walking off as part of what it means to have the cleaning fail.

[00:25:33] But then later they said something about, oh, it wasn't just the cleaning.

[00:25:39] It was them leaving.

[00:25:40] So that is like, okay, then the book is saying that it's that if they fail to wipe this thing off with the wool thing, then that's going to lead to war.

[00:25:48] And maybe it's more just about if things are already in a bad enough place that someone that you send out to clean is so defiant that it's indicative that there's probably like a bigger issue going on in your silo.

[00:26:03] So yeah, but when you send someone out, like, yeah, like people are getting sent out or probably sometimes not too happy and they might not be indicative of everyone else, you know, because since they're being sent out to die or have requested to go out to die.

[00:26:20] So I don't know.

[00:26:22] It is weird.

[00:26:23] It's a little weird.

[00:26:24] One thing about that, Bernard in the speech says that, you know, they have this new tape and Juliet was like brave enough to like test it and blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:34] Yeah.

[00:26:35] How is it going to be such a threat from now on to send people to clean if people are aware that they have good tape?

[00:26:44] Yeah.

[00:26:45] He's kind of shooting himself in the foot.

[00:26:48] Like, I mean, yes, it's like buying time to calm the population, but people are going to have questions.

[00:26:55] Like this is going to backfire big time.

[00:26:57] And I mean, part of the story is that Knox and Shirley want to go ask permission from the judge later on to use a better suit and good tape and go out and explore and come back.

[00:27:08] And I'm like, yeah, that's what they should all be doing.

[00:27:11] Like that's that.

[00:27:13] And I think, you know, Knox is it's an interesting exploration.

[00:27:19] Like the reason one of the reasons why they show this whole silo is 17 go to pieces and everybody die, I think, is so that maybe you can sort of understand where Knox is coming from.

[00:27:29] That, OK, he has these manipulative, deceitful methods, but he's trying to keep everyone safe.

[00:27:36] He's trying to keep Bernard.

[00:27:38] Yeah.

[00:27:39] Did I say Holland?

[00:27:40] That's his last name.

[00:27:40] He said Knox.

[00:27:41] Oh, I'm sorry.

[00:27:42] Bernard.

[00:27:43] Thank you.

[00:27:44] So.

[00:27:44] So, yeah.

[00:27:45] So anyway, he's trying to keep everybody from dying like they did in the other silo.

[00:27:49] But there's I'm always just thinking, yeah, but if he just was really honest that it's toxic out there, but we can go out and explore, then I don't think that would rile people up to want to burst out there and die.

[00:28:09] Because they know that they can't go out without the suits.

[00:28:11] You know?

[00:28:13] The thing is that Bernard is not a cult leader.

[00:28:16] Bernard is a follower.

[00:28:19] Bernard is a follower, an upper level follower of a cult.

[00:28:21] Like he's still following the order.

[00:28:23] Bernard is scared, even though he knows more than everybody else knows.

[00:28:28] He's scared and he's not making the rules.

[00:28:31] Like he's making a few decisions, but he's following what he thinks he's supposed to follow.

[00:28:38] It feels too rigid to me.

[00:28:40] Like I understand that he's following the order, but it's like they have that one single instruction in case of like a failed cleaning.

[00:28:49] Like you said, like what if the situation was a little bit different?

[00:28:52] And in this case, it feels like people are being smarter, like not centrally or smarter.

[00:28:57] They're like, oh, no, we're not going to rebel like mechanical did like in the past.

[00:29:00] Like we can touch to that later, but they were smarter about it.

[00:29:05] We'll just go talk to the judge and everything.

[00:29:07] And it feels like it's just slipping through Bernard's like hands, you know, like he doesn't know he's losing control.

[00:29:15] And but also like what if he was like you were saying, Jason, like if Bernard was honest and say like, OK, well, it's toxic outside, but we can go explore and have the tape and blah, blah, blah.

[00:29:25] But maybe there's more to it, to the truth.

[00:29:28] Yeah, that's true.

[00:29:29] Maybe he's not saying the truth because he's lying about other things that we're not aware of.

[00:29:35] You're not talking, telling about the like killer aliens that will tear you to shreds out there or something like that.

[00:29:41] I don't know.

[00:29:42] I've seen some crazy theories online about like the silo being an experiment.

[00:29:47] And I don't think it's the case, but it could be.

[00:29:50] But it seems like there's a bigger.

[00:29:54] Like something bigger at stake than just the air being polluted, which is obviously is.

[00:30:02] Veronica, talking about Bernard being just a rule follower.

[00:30:06] And I did notice a couple of times that like when he destroyed the hard drive, he doesn't even want to know what's on there at first.

[00:30:14] Right.

[00:30:14] And so that makes me think you're right.

[00:30:16] Like he's not curious at all.

[00:30:18] He's scared.

[00:30:20] But but he breaks the rules sometimes.

[00:30:23] He does a few times.

[00:30:24] But what I wonder.

[00:30:26] But yeah.

[00:30:26] Yeah.

[00:30:27] I mean, I wonder.

[00:30:28] There's two sets of rules, I think, if I understand it right.

[00:30:31] There's the pact that everyone knows about and they treat it like a religion, you know, like a Bible.

[00:30:36] Paul, even like the Sims family talks about how they read it every night and they put their hand on it and swear by it and everything.

[00:30:43] And clearly the sheriff guy, Paul, he's totally beholden to it.

[00:30:49] But then maybe Bernard Holland is more beholden to the order, which I think other people don't know about.

[00:30:57] But that's like his pact for the leaders.

[00:30:59] Right.

[00:31:00] So is that kind of what you're saying that he's just following that?

[00:31:03] Like like if he's just following that, like maybe he's making some small decisions, but maybe it's maybe he doesn't feel like he has the power, even though if he stepped back, like it makes logical sense what you guys are saying to go out and like let's do short exploratory walks or whatever.

[00:31:20] But maybe even if he could step back and think that's a good idea, maybe he doesn't feel like he is able to make that decision because it's not in his book of rules of what you do.

[00:31:31] I think you're right, actually.

[00:31:33] And I think one piece of evidence that supports that and I think the order allows you to break the rules in the pact because the order is for the powers that be.

[00:31:46] But he doesn't want to break the rules of the order.

[00:31:48] And one piece of evidence I can see that I think shores that up is he seems to be, I think, in love with Judge Meadows.

[00:31:55] But as soon as this guy Sims says that she starts trying to rally for her to be impeached, then Bernard Holland sees that, oh, he can use that to control the people by directing their ire towards the ones that he's going to frame for killing her.

[00:32:17] Then that's more important to him because that's what the order says to do, to stage something so that you can blame the lower class, the deeper down people.

[00:32:28] I hope what I'm saying makes sense.

[00:32:30] But I guess what I'm saying is that he puts the order higher than his love for this woman.

[00:32:36] Which is sick.

[00:32:38] I thought, you know, until it reveals it, almost was it episode six that like he does actually love her.

[00:32:47] I was having such a hard time understanding.

[00:32:49] I just felt like Meadows, starting with this episode, was being so stupid, thinking that he was going to let her have a suit and like sneak off.

[00:32:59] And I think once I realized that, oh, like they legitimately did have some like romantic, true, like love for each other, that even though I still think she was being stupid and not recognizing that his ultimate dedication was going to be to the order and to the silo.

[00:33:18] Like it made me at least understand where she sort of had that hope she was holding on to, that he was going to provide her a suit and let her go.

[00:33:28] Without that, I was just like, man, she is such an idiot.

[00:33:31] Like why?

[00:33:33] Yeah, but then she did have care.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] Later when she talks about why she left him 25 years ago and she said something like, I knew you could never fully give yourself to me.

[00:33:43] That's the part of her that knows that he's more beholden to the order.

[00:33:47] But there's that love there.

[00:33:48] So she had some hope that maybe that would be enough in this case to just let her go.

[00:33:54] And in her defense, like she has been drinking for 25 years and she just stopped.

[00:34:01] So she probably has been in this, you know, fog for so long that we can tell that she's really smart, but maybe she's not seeing like super clearly.

[00:34:12] And obviously like something really clicked inside her when, I think it's her assistant.

[00:34:19] I don't know who tells her about that.

[00:34:20] Juliet actually not only did not clean, but she walked over the hill and that's when she decides to stop drinking.

[00:34:30] So I don't know.

[00:34:32] I guess she's really hopeful.

[00:34:33] Like we know that she knows things that even Bernard doesn't know.

[00:34:37] That comes in later, but.

[00:34:39] This code, coded letter.

[00:34:43] I'm really curious about what Meadow's intentions were.

[00:34:48] Yeah, she seemed like a good person.

[00:34:52] Like she didn't want the parts of the order that will tell the leaders to screw people over for the larger agenda.

[00:35:04] She seemed to resist it to that sometimes.

[00:35:07] Not fully, but a little bit more than Bernard Holland was.

[00:35:12] Like she seemed to care about people more.

[00:35:13] And I really enjoyed her character this season more than last season for sure.

[00:35:16] They really explored her a lot more and she was much more interesting.

[00:35:21] Yeah.

[00:35:22] I don't know if I fully understood her.

[00:35:25] We can talk.

[00:35:26] We'll get to more of it, I guess.

[00:35:28] I have specific things I don't understand, but it's another episode.

[00:35:32] Yeah.

[00:35:33] But one other thing in this episode is you realize people are writing JL or Juliet lives.

[00:35:41] And so you just get more of a sense through this whole season that the rebellious spirit is growing and it's building.

[00:35:49] Should we go into the next one?

[00:35:52] Sure.

[00:35:52] Yeah.

[00:35:53] Okay.

[00:35:54] Number three, Solo.

[00:35:55] Solo.

[00:35:56] In Silo 17, Juliet learns from the man in the vault, Solo, that dozens of silos exist.

[00:36:02] And that her, didn't he say 50?

[00:36:04] Yeah.

[00:36:04] I thought that's what he said.

[00:36:05] And that her actions may cause a revolution in her silo.

[00:36:10] Solo gives Juliet food and suggests that she can use a firefighter suit to return to her silo, but the fire safety equipment is in a flooded area.

[00:36:19] Juliet requests Solo's help to access the flooded area.

[00:36:21] He first refuses, but changes his mind and exits the vault.

[00:36:25] I really want to go see inside that vault too.

[00:36:28] In silo 18, the worker Teddy is arrested for writing the graffiti Juliet lives.

[00:36:34] Sims offers an incarcerated Patrick, a drug that will help him forget his deceased wife in exchange for a favor and recruits retired raiders to send down to mechanical.

[00:36:43] Shirley leads some protesters to demand Teddy's release, but Patrick throws a firebomb at the deputies.

[00:36:49] And in the resulting chaos, the rookie engineer Cooper is killed.

[00:36:53] Pete meets a woman who hopes to win a lottery that will allow her to have a child.

[00:36:58] That's Juliet's dad, right?

[00:37:00] And defies orders not to remove her birth control by performing the procedure anyway.

[00:37:05] Billings interviews everyone present during Juliet's arrest and brings his report to Meadows stating that Juliet never asked to go outside.

[00:37:16] What stood out in this one?

[00:37:19] Just how good Steve Zahn is in the role in this episode.

[00:37:23] So good.

[00:37:25] I think it was wild watching the realization watch over her that her walking over that hill probably is like literally sending her silo into its death march right now.

[00:37:39] And like that was pretty, pretty well done.

[00:37:43] And then I loved when Solo tried to do a joke.

[00:37:49] He like was, they were talking about the fire suit and he was like, I hope they don't get wet.

[00:37:54] And she just was like, what?

[00:37:56] And he was like, I was trying to do a joke.

[00:37:59] That was very cute.

[00:38:01] Like, you know.

[00:38:03] I don't remember if it was in this episode.

[00:38:05] I actually don't think so.

[00:38:06] But I like when he was, he mentioned something about the play Romeo and Juliet.

[00:38:12] Oh, yeah.

[00:38:12] Because it came up.

[00:38:13] He's like, yeah, the play like you're in.

[00:38:15] And they both die.

[00:38:16] And she's like, what?

[00:38:17] No, they don't.

[00:38:18] And he's like, well, in ours they do.

[00:38:22] I just think it's funny how they don't know for sure.

[00:38:24] Like in this episode, she's, or yeah, he does mention the play.

[00:38:29] And then she says, is that a thing here too?

[00:38:32] So they're so siloed, you know, they just don't know anything outside their silo.

[00:38:37] They don't know if other people have had the same experiences or been exposed to the same things.

[00:38:41] And that just, I know this is also not in this episode, but it makes me, I was so endeared when Solo was so excited to show her thing.

[00:38:50] Tell her about the circus and show her the organ.

[00:38:54] Yeah.

[00:38:56] And she doesn't give a shit at first.

[00:38:57] It seems like Solo has access to a whole lot of knowledge that is accurate in his vault.

[00:39:06] Whatever he has in there, beside like chicken stew, talking about the birds.

[00:39:11] And when she comes in, he also says like, oh, you must be from like Solo 17.

[00:39:17] Like, did you notice like a wet position the sun was in when you came in?

[00:39:22] And just like little things like that, that he mentions, like leads us to believe that he's pretty knowledgeable.

[00:39:29] Like he's a bit of a crazy character, but I think he's like, yeah, there's something really smart in there.

[00:39:34] That makes me wonder something because I think it's towards the end of episode six where we are right now.

[00:39:44] Bernard gets Lucas from the mines his first day and he looks like shit.

[00:39:50] And this is the guy who plays Sadiq in The Walking Dead.

[00:39:53] We all love him and wants him to crack this code.

[00:39:56] And he's starting to be able to crack the code, but Bernard seems to realize, okay, you're starting to get there, but you don't have all the information.

[00:40:04] So let me show you the legacy.

[00:40:07] And I wonder if the legacy is the same thing that's in Solo's vaults, like a bunch of information about the world before or something like that.

[00:40:23] I don't know.

[00:40:23] It's just speculation.

[00:40:25] I mean, that's what I'm guessing too.

[00:40:27] He has music.

[00:40:28] He has obviously read a ton both about things that are accurate, but also like fictional, like he knew Romeo and Juliet.

[00:40:38] And I think a few other like fictional type stories that he references.

[00:40:43] We did actually see Bernard and Judge Meadows walk into a vault.

[00:40:50] Yeah.

[00:40:51] And have a discussion.

[00:40:52] And I'm assuming that it, like my guess was that is a mirror of whatever he is in, but we only see, I guess, a part of it.

[00:41:01] It's just this room with benches and like shelves.

[00:41:04] And I don't know if those shelves, like I couldn't tell if those were supposed to be full of things or if that was just like a decorative entryway into the vault.

[00:41:13] But did you think also, Amelie, that that was the same like setup in their silo?

[00:41:20] The doors are almost identical.

[00:41:22] Yeah.

[00:41:22] Except the one in 17 is like looks older or more like scruffy or whatever.

[00:41:29] So that means even though they've said that all the information about the past has been destroyed, that there's actually a store of it in a vault in every silo potentially.

[00:41:38] Well, we know Meadows knew quite a bit of things and even had she watched those home videos at one point of someone's family.

[00:41:47] So she's got.

[00:41:48] They don't have to.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:49] Someone high up has access to certain things at least.

[00:41:54] Yeah.

[00:41:55] And that's like what part of like watching her do that, watch videos and she's like talking about Wizard of Oz and she wants to escape and stuff.

[00:42:04] And I'm like, man, she's such a hypocrite because she's keeping all the helping keep all this information from everyone else because she doesn't want them to yearn for the outside world.

[00:42:14] And yet she's able to watch it and she is yearning for the outside world.

[00:42:17] And of course you would if you saw all that.

[00:42:19] It's an interesting dynamic.

[00:42:21] Right.

[00:42:22] But just to come back to what you were saying about the legacy, Jason, like something I was wondering about, like if the legacy is, let's say, like this big hard drive with all like the knowledge left from the past.

[00:42:35] Why is it that Bernard wanted to destroy this other hard drive?

[00:42:40] Yeah.

[00:42:41] Good question.

[00:42:42] Is it because he thinks that it was like misinformation or it contains some good information and some information that is incorrect?

[00:42:53] Was it created like by the rebels or?

[00:42:57] Yeah.

[00:42:57] Like why wouldn't he just confiscate it and put it in the vault?

[00:43:00] Yeah.

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:01] And wouldn't want to see it.

[00:43:03] But I'm confused about that.

[00:43:06] Because that wouldn't work into the plot of him needing to have it put back together and the letter from Salvador decoded.

[00:43:13] I don't know.

[00:43:14] I don't know.

[00:43:15] Maybe we just don't know that yet.

[00:43:17] Yeah.

[00:43:17] I hope there's a better reason.

[00:43:19] Yeah.

[00:43:19] Contradiction.

[00:43:20] Yeah.

[00:43:20] I feel like that hard drive came from somewhere else than the people who created the legacy or whatever the legacy is.

[00:43:26] But did you think that Solo poisoned Juliet with the chicken stew?

[00:43:34] I did.

[00:43:35] Yeah.

[00:43:36] He's like, I just wanted you to eat it.

[00:43:39] But then he said it was so he'd know that she was actually real, which was kind of sad.

[00:43:45] Yeah.

[00:43:46] You combine that.

[00:43:47] Fascinating people.

[00:43:48] Yeah.

[00:43:50] With then you see the writing outside that says we're going to get in or something eventually.

[00:43:56] Yeah.

[00:43:56] It makes me think of Father Gabriel.

[00:43:59] Yeah.

[00:44:00] Who kept everyone out of his, you know.

[00:44:02] So I know that we don't know who Solo is and we don't.

[00:44:06] But we do know that Judge Meadows at some point says she'd been training under Bernard for 40 plus years.

[00:44:17] And that this breakdown in Silo 17 happened before she ever started shadowing him.

[00:44:26] Like Bernard says that.

[00:44:28] Yeah.

[00:44:28] We know that whoever Solo is, he's been there alone or locked up for over 40 years by himself.

[00:44:37] So he probably definitely at least was legitimately a child and around the age of the people, the person he's pretending to be.

[00:44:46] So he couldn't have been a shadow.

[00:44:50] Yeah.

[00:44:51] I think that's all a lie.

[00:44:52] That's all a lie.

[00:44:53] Yeah.

[00:44:54] He's taking on someone else's identity.

[00:44:55] Yeah.

[00:44:56] But you made me think of something too.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Meadows and Bernard Holland are talking about that.

[00:45:05] I think it was Bernard who knew that when the breakdown happened.

[00:45:10] But one of the things I really loved about episode two is after we saw all of episode one from Juliet's point of view, we immediately see that Bernard could see everything that she was seeing through her helmet camera until she broke her suit.

[00:45:22] That was so interesting.

[00:45:24] And I loved it.

[00:45:25] And it showed I think he didn't really know what happened before that.

[00:45:30] So that made me think that maybe the silos do have the ability to communicate with each other or at least there's some signal that they get that they know that they're still operational or something.

[00:45:45] But it could be that they have full on communication with each other.

[00:45:49] But once that silo, everyone died, then there was just no one left to talk to Bernard and he had no way of knowing exactly what happened.

[00:45:56] Something like that.

[00:45:57] You know?

[00:45:57] Yeah.

[00:45:57] There had to be something.

[00:45:59] Something happens.

[00:45:59] Yeah.

[00:45:59] Some sort of communication has to happen for them to know.

[00:46:05] And then one thing maybe we haven't touched on so much, but a big theme of this season is people who want to know the truth and they want the truth to be spoken.

[00:46:15] And they feel rebellious when they know they're being fucked around with and lied to.

[00:46:20] But then they draw attention to themselves and they're in danger or maybe they actually cause 10,000 people in their silo to die.

[00:46:28] You know?

[00:46:29] Like you start to think, ah, I don't know.

[00:46:32] So this guy Knox, who's the leader of mechanical or engineering, he wants to know the truth too, he says.

[00:46:38] But he wants to do it in a way that doesn't draw attention and cause trouble and maybe get himself killed.

[00:46:45] And so it's that tension between him and Shirley, who's just mad and wants to shout it from the rooftops.

[00:46:50] And just all that kind of a thing.

[00:46:53] Like, yeah, sometimes the best way to stay safe is to keep your nose down.

[00:46:58] But then you have to live with whatever you've got, you know?

[00:47:02] Like people maybe in Nazi Germany who didn't agree with what Hitler was doing but knew that they didn't have a choice so they just had to accept it, you know?

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:11] But people found quiet ways to resist.

[00:47:15] I don't know.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:17] Even then.

[00:47:19] Yeah.

[00:47:19] Yeah.

[00:47:19] And you need, like, what they try to do is get enough people together who can stage a coup or have a civil war or whatever.

[00:47:30] They just need to quietly accumulate power before the powers that be can snuff it out.

[00:47:36] But that's what happened in Silo 17.

[00:47:39] And that didn't work out so well either.

[00:47:41] But that's why I just think knowledge is important, you know?

[00:47:46] I mean, because we think about it in our world too, you know?

[00:47:49] People who aren't happy that, frankly, Trump won, you know?

[00:47:53] And what can we do about that?

[00:47:58] And we're afraid that it's going to be that the institutions in our government aren't trusted anymore and that he's going to take more power and threaten our democracy and everything like that.

[00:48:10] And I don't know.

[00:48:13] It made me think about all that.

[00:48:14] I don't have any hard and fast conclusions, but I couldn't help but think of what's going on in our society as I was watching this.

[00:48:20] You know what I think is more important even than the knowledge is the curiosity.

[00:48:24] So for people to ask questions and to question whether, you know, if everyone in the silo was questioning whether they, you know, were being lied to, like, it wouldn't matter if they had the knowledge in hand.

[00:48:37] Like, if they could have the curiosity to seek the knowledge.

[00:48:41] I mean, I know it follows, but I think that's enough.

[00:48:45] And I think that's enough in our society now too, just to have the curiosity to keep questioning no matter what your beliefs or who you voted for or what political or social space you're in.

[00:48:57] Have the curiosity to question your own self and to listen to other people.

[00:49:02] Yeah.

[00:49:03] And to not get, like, anytime anyone's trying to get people to be mad at other people, to think, is this a manipulative tactic?

[00:49:13] And I think that can happen on any side of the political spectrum, you know, trying to distract us with things.

[00:49:20] But the best way, if we could all just have sort of a calm curiosity and inquiry into the best things to do.

[00:49:30] But it's so hard with big groups of people.

[00:49:33] Like, I think also about climate change.

[00:49:35] Like, we know that there's man-made climate change and that there's these extreme weather events.

[00:49:41] And we know that something needs to be done about that.

[00:49:44] But there's so many forces that are enriched by not doing anything about it.

[00:49:49] And they try to manipulate us into not doing anything successfully so far.

[00:49:53] And it's just so frustrating, you know, to see how it's like when I watch the show, I get the same feeling of frustration.

[00:49:58] I'm like, if they would just do this one thing, then they would all be fine.

[00:50:01] But I feel like that about us too.

[00:50:05] But I mean, just, I guess one of the things that's so, like, clearly symbolically laid out in the silo is the attempts at separation of the different people and roles and classes.

[00:50:19] And, like, that is how they're doing that forced separation and that sort of pitting the different groups against each other.

[00:50:27] Because they made conscious decisions in the building of the silos.

[00:50:31] Like, we see it happen this season where they're looking for a faster way down the stairs.

[00:50:35] And there's not.

[00:50:36] They have the technology.

[00:50:37] They have the power to have elevators and lifts.

[00:50:40] And they don't because they want information to run slowly enough that they can control it.

[00:50:46] And so that they can pit these different levels against each other.

[00:50:50] Keep them separate.

[00:50:52] Yeah.

[00:50:53] It's interesting.

[00:50:54] Divide to conquer.

[00:50:55] Keep them silo.

[00:50:56] There's silos within silos.

[00:50:57] Within silos.

[00:50:59] So we move on to the next one.

[00:51:01] Yeah.

[00:51:02] So we're on season two, episode four, The Harmonium.

[00:51:06] With Solo's help, Juliet builds an air pump system to help her through the flooded levels and collects a firefighter suit.

[00:51:13] Solo tells Juliet about the outside world from before and struggles with anxiety about leaving the vault.

[00:51:19] Knox shares with Shirley his belief that their silo has had multiple rebellions, which were blamed on Mechanical because of their ability to shut down the silo.

[00:51:28] He also requests to speak with Meadows, who agrees to meet.

[00:51:31] Sims becomes suspicious of Bernard's relationship with Meadows and fabricates a movement to demand Meadows impeachment.

[00:51:39] Meadows allows Lucas to protest his sentence and after their conversation reduces it to five years.

[00:51:46] Billings investigates the riot Mechanical and learns that the body of the instigator has disappeared and judicial has claimed Cooper's body.

[00:51:54] Bernard poisons Meadows and before she dies, she tells him that on the hard drive Juliet stole, there's a coded letter from Salvador Quinn, who was head of IT during the rebellion 140 years ago.

[00:52:06] Knox, Shirley, Walker, and Carla arrive at judicial where Bernard has set up Meadows' body to frame Knox and Shirley for her murder.

[00:52:14] Sims riles up a crowd and sends it after them.

[00:52:18] This episode felt most like last season to me, where there's a lot of people being framed and things like that.

[00:52:27] What did you guys think about the whole plot to set them up to have killed Meadows and then letting them walk out in that way?

[00:52:40] I wasn't sure where the plan was going and thought it was sort of smart, but I don't know.

[00:52:46] What did you guys, did you think that was a good setup or do you think people would have saw through that?

[00:52:52] To frame Knox and Shirley?

[00:52:54] Knox and Shirley.

[00:52:56] Just the whole way it played out, like them walking in, just the two of them and then letting them walk out.

[00:53:03] I think the way that their plans worked so well to whip everyone into a frenzy

[00:53:13] seemed like I had to suspend my disbelief a little bit, but it's okay.

[00:53:21] I felt especially because Meadows was not like a well-loved political figure and people were already calling for her to step down.

[00:53:30] It just all seemed strange.

[00:53:32] I mean, the whole thing felt a little rushed.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:35] Like Sims was like, I'm going to put up a thing and then immediately little sheets go up in front of her office to impeach her.

[00:53:43] And it's like, what's happening?

[00:53:44] This is, I don't know.

[00:53:45] It's true.

[00:53:46] I'm glad you're mentioning it because I thought, did I miss something?

[00:53:50] Or like, what is it?

[00:53:51] I'm not getting about Sims' plan.

[00:53:54] But Sims didn't think it would work.

[00:53:57] He just wanted to pressure Bernard to make him his shadow.

[00:54:02] He didn't actually want Judge Meadows impeached or to be the judge.

[00:54:07] He just wanted to force Bernard's hand.

[00:54:09] He didn't think he was forcing Bernard's hand into murdering Meadows.

[00:54:13] He thought it would make him get what he wanted.

[00:54:17] And then he's, I think this is next episode, but when Bernard kills Meadows and then goes to Sims and is like, I know you did this.

[00:54:28] And you're never going to be my shadow, which is what Sims wants most in the world.

[00:54:32] And you're going to take her place.

[00:54:34] And then you see him in the office.

[00:54:35] And it's like, it made me remember when I was really sick of being a tech writer.

[00:54:41] And I was like, fuck, I don't want this job.

[00:54:48] One thing I wrote for, I don't know why in this episode, but the silo theme, I love the opening credits, the graphics and everything.

[00:54:58] It looks kind of like, the silo looks like a gear, but also a DNA strand at one point.

[00:55:02] But the music I thought sounded a lot like Westworld.

[00:55:07] And I looked up the composer is Atli Orvarsson.

[00:55:13] And he and Westworld and also Game of Thrones composer, Raman Jawadi, both worked with Hans Zimmer at his production studio.

[00:55:21] So maybe they kind of rubbed off on each other.

[00:55:24] I don't know.

[00:55:24] But it sounds like a Raman Jawadi piece to me.

[00:55:27] And they won a BAFTA for original music, I think, last year.

[00:55:32] That's cool.

[00:55:33] So.

[00:55:34] That's good.

[00:55:35] I like the meeting with Lucas and the judge when she asks him about the lights in the sky.

[00:55:43] And he gives this theory that we're on a sphere.

[00:55:47] What do you say?

[00:55:47] A ball that we live on a ball.

[00:55:49] And I'm like, oh, he's just like Aristotle.

[00:55:51] Like people have to rediscover these things.

[00:55:55] And then when she starts spouting her knowledge about how the stars are all like big balls of gas and that the earth moves around the sun and his eyes are just wide.

[00:56:05] Like, oh, my God.

[00:56:06] He's like drinking all this in.

[00:56:08] It was just a fun moment.

[00:56:10] I did.

[00:56:11] What was the point, though?

[00:56:13] Like, what was she doing there?

[00:56:15] That's exactly what I was going to ask.

[00:56:18] And when I was.

[00:56:18] I'm not sure.

[00:56:20] Asking about Meadow's intentions.

[00:56:22] That's one example.

[00:56:24] Like, was she just happy to like share knowledge with someone that is smart?

[00:56:30] And then she changes.

[00:56:32] Oh, I think I know.

[00:56:33] But.

[00:56:34] Well, what she told Bernard, because at first you think so she halved his sentence from 10 years to five years in the mines.

[00:56:42] And you think, oh, she's she liked him.

[00:56:44] She was being kind to him.

[00:56:46] But then she tells Bernard that she brought him up there and she confirmed that he's dangerous.

[00:56:52] And she also says, I made him think I was being nice.

[00:56:55] But five years in the mines for that guy, he's not going to make it through.

[00:56:58] So to me, if you can trust what she said there, she was just inquiring to see if he's actually a dangerous person.

[00:57:08] And the kind of person that they think is dangerous is people who really want that knowledge, you know.

[00:57:13] And so then she confirmed it to herself and realized, yeah, he needs to stay down there and die down there.

[00:57:19] Is it because she still cares about the people in the silo surviving?

[00:57:23] Because she's about to go, you know, wander out in a suit.

[00:57:28] Presumably she knows she will likely die eventually.

[00:57:32] Like, why does she care?

[00:57:34] Okay.

[00:57:35] Just because she wants stability for the people there, she believes.

[00:57:38] I think so.

[00:57:40] Yeah.

[00:57:40] I sense she's in a twisted way a good person.

[00:57:44] We did get a reveal from that being said, she never repeats explicitly to Bernard what Lucas says to her here.

[00:57:55] But when he talks to Lucas later, he knows exactly what Lucas figured out.

[00:58:00] So he's been also actively monitoring Judge Meadows, even in her private places.

[00:58:08] Right.

[00:58:09] And that reminds me when Walker and I think Carla are in jail and they're talking about some plans that they're going to do or something.

[00:58:17] And I'm like, people can probably hear you.

[00:58:21] And then I'm so glad that the camera went over and showed that there was a camera there just so that we didn't feel like there was a flaw in the writing or something.

[00:58:30] Yeah.

[00:58:31] Yeah.

[00:58:32] Because I've honestly felt sort of critical of how poorly, if most of the rebellions do really come up often from Mechanical.

[00:58:42] Like, I know there's this sort of thing where Mechanical gets blamed for it, but it does seem like now we're seeing at least two situations where Mechanical has come up to fight.

[00:58:50] Why are they not keeping a better watch on, like, I don't know, not just having a board covering a hole in the wall where they can go down and get all the information on past rebellions?

[00:59:00] I know.

[00:59:00] Or, like, I don't know.

[00:59:02] I just thought some of that felt questionable to me.

[00:59:06] If it's half Big Brother and half we're not watching, like, I don't know.

[00:59:11] And also, I don't think it's a good plan in times of trouble to pit everyone against Mechanical because Mechanical is important.

[00:59:22] And it takes knowledge and skill to do those jobs.

[00:59:25] And you can't just, like, kill everyone and then hire new people for it or whatever.

[00:59:31] That's exactly what I was going to say, Jason.

[00:59:34] Like, the silo depends on them.

[00:59:36] Like, why would you want them to do everything?

[00:59:39] Go for the actors or something.

[00:59:40] No, I don't know.

[00:59:43] It seems like there's, like, potholes.

[00:59:46] Podcasters.

[00:59:46] Okay, fine.

[00:59:47] Yeah.

[00:59:49] It doesn't seem to make sense.

[00:59:51] And, like, also, why is it that Bernard is the only one to have all the knowledge and he only has one shadow?

[00:59:58] What happens if Bernard dies?

[01:00:01] Well, I think that's why he's supposed to have a shadow.

[01:00:03] But, yeah, it seems like...

[01:00:04] Yeah, but he could die with a shadow.

[01:00:06] Like, the Order should have thought better of these things.

[01:00:09] It doesn't make sense to me.

[01:00:10] I guess that's why there's 50 silos.

[01:00:12] So, if you can...

[01:00:14] If you are just okay to lose, maybe?

[01:00:17] I don't know.

[01:00:19] Well, that makes me think that...

[01:00:20] I just had that song, me and my shadow pop into my head.

[01:00:23] I hope they can sing that at some point.

[01:00:26] What does it make you think, Emily?

[01:00:29] That there's probably a higher power than the head of IT.

[01:00:34] Coordinating things.

[01:00:35] And that at least they are in communication, like, connected one silo to another.

[01:00:41] I mean, somebody set these silos up and they wrote the pact and the order, presumably.

[01:00:49] And you wonder if that group of people...

[01:00:53] I mean, it's 200 years later or whatever, so they're not alive.

[01:00:58] But if there's some, like, central hub where the leaders live or something like that.

[01:01:05] Or maybe just in communication, you know?

[01:01:08] Yeah.

[01:01:09] We don't know.

[01:01:10] Do we know how many years for sure?

[01:01:12] Because we know there was a rebellion 140 years ago in Silo 18.

[01:01:19] But then we also...

[01:01:20] They said, like, that it looked like those walls were from, like, multiple rebellions over the years.

[01:01:25] Have they said how...

[01:01:27] Like, how old?

[01:01:28] How long do we have an idea?

[01:01:30] If it's been 200 years or 400 years or...

[01:01:33] I guess not.

[01:01:34] Yeah.

[01:01:35] You just pulled that one.

[01:01:36] No, I'm just curious.

[01:01:37] I've been wondering that the whole time and didn't know if I missed it.

[01:01:40] Mm-mm.

[01:01:40] Mm-mm.

[01:01:43] So Juliet decides to go get that firefighter suit.

[01:01:47] And they get the pump from the organ.

[01:01:52] And I loved...

[01:01:53] He has the idea.

[01:01:54] Solo has the idea to do that after he plays music for her and stuff.

[01:01:57] And then he realizes that it means the organ's not going to work.

[01:02:00] And he's like, oh, maybe we don't want to do this kind of vibes.

[01:02:03] And she's like...

[01:02:03] He's like, you could fix it again, right?

[01:02:05] And she's like, oh, maybe.

[01:02:06] And I'm thinking, yeah, she can do it.

[01:02:09] She can fix anything.

[01:02:09] But then that whole sequence where she goes underwater and he's pumping.

[01:02:13] And that was just very well done and thrilling and everything.

[01:02:16] I loved it.

[01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:20] All right.

[01:02:20] Anything else in this episode that we need to make sure not to miss?

[01:02:25] I think the main reveal was the Salvador Queen's letter.

[01:02:28] I think that's the central element between...

[01:02:33] It's the one thing that Meadows knows that Bernard doesn't.

[01:02:37] So it seems like very important.

[01:02:39] And I think it's going to come back later.

[01:02:41] Oh, so is this the one where he kills her?

[01:02:46] Yes.

[01:02:47] He poisons her.

[01:02:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:02:49] I was pretty shocked at that.

[01:02:51] Yeah.

[01:02:52] And I thought it was interesting that she didn't seem to...

[01:02:57] Once she realized what happened, they were still friends.

[01:03:00] She wasn't surprised.

[01:03:01] For the last few minutes that she had, yeah.

[01:03:03] He was acting, you know, because of what it says in the order.

[01:03:07] And she was like, of course you had to do that, you know.

[01:03:09] But I'm still not going to tell you what was in that letter.

[01:03:12] Yeah, and I can't remember exactly why that came up in conversation.

[01:03:17] Like, oh, I have this piece of information that I know you'd like to know, but I'm about to die and you're never going to know.

[01:03:22] Ha ha.

[01:03:22] Or what...

[01:03:23] It was the reason why she stepped down as his shadow 25 years ago.

[01:03:29] And so they were basically talking about, you know, that they did sort of care about each other and that she stepped down.

[01:03:38] I think that's when she said to him.

[01:03:39] Is that what she said to him about, like, I knew you'd...

[01:03:43] Or did she say that in a different episode?

[01:03:45] No, that's here.

[01:03:45] But I think it was that same type of conversation again.

[01:03:47] She said, I knew you could never fully give yourself to me.

[01:03:49] So I thought that's why.

[01:03:50] And whatever she read in that letter is what made her decide to step away from being a shadow.

[01:03:57] And we learned that she disappeared for four days after finding that out.

[01:04:03] And we don't know where she was.

[01:04:04] We don't know what she was doing during that time.

[01:04:07] And she came back four days later, if I understand well, and then said, I won't be the shadow anymore.

[01:04:12] But that piece of information.

[01:04:14] So it seems like pretty damn important, I think, to the story.

[01:04:19] Yeah.

[01:04:20] All right.

[01:04:21] Next one.

[01:04:22] Yeah.

[01:04:24] The descent.

[01:04:26] Solo asks Juliet to repair a water pump because the water level is rising and will reach IT in 10 months.

[01:04:32] But Juliet insists that she needs to return to her silo immediately.

[01:04:37] Juliet suspects that Solo is lying about his identity, and he reacts angrily to her questioning.

[01:04:43] Juliet finds a usable suit helmet but collapses from injuries.

[01:04:48] Bernard is aware that Sims fabricated the movement against Meadows and denies him the role of Bernard's shadow, but makes him the judge to replace Meadows, which frustrates Sims.

[01:04:59] Sims' wife, Camille, helps Knox and Shirley temporarily evade the mob.

[01:05:05] Rick Edmondson, the new head of judicial, has Carla arrested, but Knox, Shirley, and Walker are able to bypass the blockade and travel to the lower levels.

[01:05:17] Bernard has Lucas fix Juliet's hard drive, revealing hidden connections in the silo to the outside world and a coded letter by Salvador Quinn to his wife.

[01:05:27] Billings and deputy hand tracked down Patrick offers to tell Billings the truth about the silo that he learned.

[01:05:36] So this thing about hidden connections to the silo in the outside world, I mean, we see maps there, and there's tunnels going out at the bottom.

[01:05:44] There's a tunnel.

[01:05:45] Is that what that's talking about?

[01:05:46] And maybe that's, maybe those tunnels lead to a central hub or something like that.

[01:05:51] Tunnels, and then also it looked like some other sort of lines, one going into IT and one going into judicial.

[01:05:57] So a tunnel as well as something else.

[01:06:00] Maybe that's about the...

[01:06:30] Like, she gets a video from him.

[01:06:33] And he says, like, I found a tunnel.

[01:06:35] Right, right.

[01:06:36] So we know there's a tunnel at the bottom of the...

[01:06:40] Is that same map he opened that, right?

[01:06:43] He was digging on that hard drive that they're digging on now.

[01:06:47] Is that right?

[01:06:48] Well, it's the same hard drive that George had.

[01:06:51] So we could sing that maybe it's the same tunnel.

[01:06:53] Because I remember seeing that tunnel before, I think.

[01:06:55] Yeah.

[01:06:55] Yeah.

[01:06:56] So they're connected, I'm telling you.

[01:06:59] That's my theory.

[01:07:01] What else?

[01:07:04] Oh, so this is where Solo says...

[01:07:08] I liked it because, you know, at first when he told her his name, he said,

[01:07:13] Solo because I'm the only one here, which of course made me think of the Han Solo movie,

[01:07:17] Solo.

[01:07:18] Yeah.

[01:07:18] That's how he got his name, kind of, that he was by himself.

[01:07:21] But then he...

[01:07:23] So it seems like he doesn't want to tell his real name.

[01:07:26] That's why he's giving a fake name.

[01:07:28] But then she goes, okay, well, so what's your real name?

[01:07:30] And he goes, ah, it's Cole Myers.

[01:07:31] And I just thought that was kind of funny.

[01:07:33] It's like, oh, you didn't really care.

[01:07:35] It was just a cute nickname.

[01:07:37] At least that's what I was thinking in the moment, right?

[01:07:38] And then he says that at this event, they asked who he was with.

[01:07:43] And he said, I'm Solo.

[01:07:44] And Russell's kid was there.

[01:07:46] Russell was the head of IT in Silo 17.

[01:07:50] Overheard me say that.

[01:07:51] And he thought that was my name.

[01:07:52] So the name stuck.

[01:07:53] But hey, what's in the name, right?

[01:07:55] That's where he says, that's from your play, Romeo and Juliet, before they die.

[01:07:59] And she's like, they don't die.

[01:08:02] Oh, in ours they do.

[01:08:03] I just love that whole little bit of dialogue.

[01:08:05] But then later, it takes on a different feel when you find out that he's not even that guy.

[01:08:12] And he gets so pissed right up in her face, just screaming at her when she questions it.

[01:08:17] And she's so scared.

[01:08:19] It was such a great scene.

[01:08:20] And like you guys were saying at first about this character, he's got so many facets to him.

[01:08:24] And in that scene, he seemed damn scary.

[01:08:27] Yeah.

[01:08:28] So he can't be Russell's kid, right?

[01:08:31] Because we see the kid going out.

[01:08:33] Could he be?

[01:08:34] Yeah.

[01:08:35] The IT guy's kid?

[01:08:36] That's what I was just wondering.

[01:08:37] Maybe he's the one who thought Solo's name was funny.

[01:08:41] Maybe he told that.

[01:08:42] Maybe he knew that story because he was the kid.

[01:08:46] Right?

[01:08:46] Oh, yeah.

[01:08:47] That's what you're saying, right, Amelie?

[01:08:48] Yeah.

[01:08:49] I'm lost, honestly.

[01:08:51] Like I said, I have more questions than answers.

[01:08:53] I will tell you, I don't remember who he is from the book.

[01:08:57] So I can totally guess and not know.

[01:09:00] But I think that seems...

[01:09:03] I don't...

[01:09:04] We saw Russell's kid was...

[01:09:07] Because the kid at the beginning was Timmy.

[01:09:11] Okay.

[01:09:11] Maybe that's him.

[01:09:13] Yeah.

[01:09:13] But it was...

[01:09:13] But did he die?

[01:09:15] Wait, no.

[01:09:15] He said his name was Cole.

[01:09:16] That could be a lot too.

[01:09:17] Okay.

[01:09:18] No.

[01:09:18] That's what I'm saying.

[01:09:19] Timmy met Cole, right?

[01:09:21] Timmy...

[01:09:22] Little Timmy met...

[01:09:23] Cole is solo.

[01:09:24] Yeah.

[01:09:24] Okay.

[01:09:25] But Timmy is...

[01:09:26] I bet he's Timmy.

[01:09:28] Yeah.

[01:09:28] Yeah.

[01:09:29] And he even looks a little bit like that guy.

[01:09:32] Like I could see them...

[01:09:35] I don't know if they were trying to cast a dad who looked a little bit like him.

[01:09:39] I feel like he even...

[01:09:40] Like Steve's on even looks a little bit like that guy that was leading the rebellion stuff.

[01:09:46] Which would be his dad if he was...

[01:09:48] Yeah.

[01:09:48] I bet you that's who he is.

[01:09:50] That makes a lot of sense that they would tie him into that flashback like that.

[01:09:53] And if his dad was in IT, maybe his dad helped stash him.

[01:09:57] But we saw his dad go out.

[01:09:58] So his dad couldn't have stashed him in the vault.

[01:10:00] I don't know.

[01:10:01] Yeah.

[01:10:01] Maybe stashed him before he went out?

[01:10:04] Yeah.

[01:10:04] Maybe.

[01:10:06] But why would he do that?

[01:10:06] So I bet you we're going to get more flashbacks.

[01:10:09] I don't know.

[01:10:09] At least one more in the next four episodes.

[01:10:11] Yeah.

[01:10:12] We'll find out.

[01:10:13] Yeah.

[01:10:16] The whole thing with Nox and Shirley, I guess I wasn't as interested in, but it was okay.

[01:10:23] Trying to evade.

[01:10:24] I always think it's crazy that you can actually escape capture in a silo and there's just like

[01:10:29] one stairway.

[01:10:31] I thought they were going to.

[01:10:32] Yeah.

[01:10:33] I thought they'd go down the recycling chute.

[01:10:35] The way people were like sending food down, I thought that they might go that way.

[01:10:39] I wasn't expecting the like.

[01:10:41] And come out on the little conveyor belt and then they'd be like, I'll throw these guys

[01:10:45] out.

[01:10:47] I like to kiss.

[01:10:49] It's in this one, right?

[01:10:50] Yeah.

[01:10:51] I don't know, but they do kiss at some point.

[01:10:54] Yeah.

[01:10:55] She started it or she initiated it.

[01:10:59] Yeah.

[01:11:01] Yeah.

[01:11:01] That was cool.

[01:11:03] Oh, and he says he was wrong.

[01:11:04] He's like, I wanted to ask nicely and now we're going to die for it.

[01:11:07] And then she graciously says, well, we were dead from the beginning either way.

[01:11:12] But if we did it my way, we'd already be dead.

[01:11:15] So that's what I'm saying.

[01:11:16] Like, oh, you could have just kept your noses down and you'd be fine, but you'd have to

[01:11:19] live in this shitty world where everyone lies to you all the time and uses you.

[01:11:25] I didn't understand what Sim's wife was doing when she helped them at first.

[01:11:29] And then I was like, oh, she's trying to make the new IT guy look bad.

[01:11:33] And then they revealed that that's what she was doing.

[01:11:35] But oh, I didn't get that.

[01:11:37] Okay.

[01:11:37] Yeah.

[01:11:37] She's just trying to make the new IT guy look bad to make Bernard eat his, I don't know,

[01:11:43] his own foot.

[01:11:44] Regret what he did.

[01:11:45] Yeah.

[01:11:46] Is that it though?

[01:11:47] I feel like there's more to it.

[01:11:49] And like, she's not like, they seem at first like a pretty close family, the Sims.

[01:11:54] And you can tell that she's like, she's not telling her husband what she's doing.

[01:11:58] You see them in bed.

[01:11:59] There's that scene and she's not mentioning it or anything.

[01:12:05] So he's not in the know.

[01:12:08] I think that's why she's doing it.

[01:12:09] What's her deal?

[01:12:10] Right?

[01:12:11] I think she just wants to do what's best for her husband and her family.

[01:12:15] And she's going to make those decisions.

[01:12:17] And I think she wanted, because they have that last conversation in the hall.

[01:12:21] And she's basically like, just let them go.

[01:12:25] You know, karma will fall out.

[01:12:27] We don't need to, like, she knew that they were cutting up through the floor or whatever.

[01:12:32] And she told Sims, let's not tell anybody.

[01:12:34] And then he said, I think we need to do what will protect our son the most.

[01:12:39] And then she changes her position and goes and tells the young IT guy what's happening and that they're about to be like pinched off.

[01:12:47] So I really do think like it was all about making the IT guy look bad.

[01:12:52] And she kind of, my guess is she just wanted to, like, help her husband without him knowing that she was doing it.

[01:12:59] But, like, maybe I'm wrong.

[01:13:00] Like, maybe she has some deeper plot.

[01:13:05] Yeah.

[01:13:06] Yeah.

[01:13:06] Well, one thing for sure is that the Sims, like, it looks like what they want is to protect, like, their own agenda.

[01:13:14] As opposed to Bernard that, you know, is following the order.

[01:13:18] Yeah.

[01:13:19] And I think, like, beyond the whole, like, Meadows thing, like, situation, I think that's why Bernard will not make Sims his shadow.

[01:13:31] It's because he can sense that, that, you know, like, Sims' priority is his family and his son is coming back too.

[01:13:37] So I don't know if something's going on with the son.

[01:13:38] Like, does he have a condition or what the situation is?

[01:13:42] But, yeah, like, they're looking out for themselves, the Sims, for sure.

[01:13:48] Yeah.

[01:13:49] And the whole theme of this sort of slavish, just giving yourself over to these documents, the pact for Paul Billingsley, the order for Bernard Holland, that Sims is only out for himself.

[01:14:08] He doesn't, it's really interesting to me.

[01:14:11] And it makes me think of the, like, you know, I feel critical of it at first.

[01:14:17] Like, you should always be questioning things.

[01:14:21] But then again, I think about the United States Constitution where it's really important in keeping our country together and functioning and everything like that.

[01:14:32] But then, but we've also built in a way to amend it over the years because it wasn't perfect.

[01:14:40] So anyway, that's our document.

[01:14:42] You know, when you think, oh, this just seems like some weird sci-fi thing that would never apply to the real world, but it totally does.

[01:14:48] You know, the laws that we have and everything that we think some of the laws are stupid.

[01:14:51] And I don't follow all the laws.

[01:14:52] And neither does anyone listening to me.

[01:14:54] You've all gone five miles over the speed limit.

[01:15:02] I know that was super deep.

[01:15:06] That makes sense.

[01:15:07] No, I think it does.

[01:15:09] I think it, I think there's comfort in having, like, some rules.

[01:15:13] And I think there's also, like, wisdom in it, too.

[01:15:16] Like you said, I mean, there's nothing wrong with the Constitution.

[01:15:18] We've found waste, like you said, to amend it over time, though.

[01:15:22] I think that's the important thing is that you continue to check in and not just, like, always follow things blindly.

[01:15:28] Yeah.

[01:15:29] And it shouldn't be, like, easy to change those major things.

[01:15:32] Yeah.

[01:15:33] But I just think, like, there's a part of me that's like, I hate all of it.

[01:15:37] I want to be able to think for myself and not have to follow something.

[01:15:40] But you can't really have a functioning society.

[01:15:44] It's anarchy if you don't have rules, you know?

[01:15:46] Yeah.

[01:15:47] And so it's just a fact of life.

[01:15:51] But I think in the world of Silo, I feel critical of characters who just follow the rules no matter what without ever thinking that there could ever be an exception.

[01:16:06] But I don't know.

[01:16:07] Maybe they all do.

[01:16:08] Because then I was thinking, you know, Paul Billings leaves a character like that.

[01:16:12] He seems to follow the pact no matter what.

[01:16:15] And it's sacred to him.

[01:16:16] But then again, he kept that little sheet of paper that he wasn't supposed to have.

[01:16:20] So that was where he didn't.

[01:16:23] And then he showed it to this guy, Patrick, to try to get Patrick to trust him by sort of being vulnerable.

[01:16:30] Like, here's a way that you could totally get me.

[01:16:32] So now that I'm giving you this way to get me in trouble, I hope you'll take that as a sign that I want you to trust me and help me.

[01:16:41] So anyway, yeah, I feel like we're all like that to one degree or another.

[01:16:46] I think there are those of us who feel way more beholden to the law and others who don't feel beholden to it at all and everywhere in between, you know?

[01:16:56] Yeah, but I mean, think about like us in our open society right now, how many of us will follow groupthink because it's just more comfortable.

[01:17:06] And then think if you put us in a smaller siloed area, how much easier and more natural it would be if everyone else in this very closed off society believes deeply in the pact and follows it.

[01:17:18] But it would be, I think, fairly common for people not to question that in that setting.

[01:17:23] I think it does fit with human nature.

[01:17:26] Even those who were sort of more inclined to be a questioning kind of a person, there would be a force there of social proof, you know, where you might feel like hesitant to go against the grain because people might look down on you for it or whatever.

[01:17:47] Things like that.

[01:17:48] Or just send you outside to die.

[01:17:51] Yeah.

[01:17:51] That too.

[01:17:52] Ouch.

[01:17:55] All right.

[01:17:55] So we go.

[01:17:56] Oh, one more thing I want to say about this episode is when Knox and Shirley strapped themselves to that cable and jump, that would kill them.

[01:18:02] Come on.

[01:18:03] At the very least, they would be gravely injured when it's that snap.

[01:18:08] Like there's some ribs at least broken there.

[01:18:11] Right.

[01:18:11] And just because they mentioned it in the writing, it doesn't mean it's okay that it makes sense.

[01:18:17] Mm-hmm.

[01:18:17] All right.

[01:18:19] Final one.

[01:18:20] Season two, episode six, Barricades.

[01:18:22] Tensions rise with Bernard blocking supplies to the lower levels and Knox having weapons made.

[01:18:27] At Billings' request, Pete travels to the lower levels to treat Patrick.

[01:18:31] Patrick tells Billings how he'd helped Juliet with the hard drive and accepted a deal from Sims to be agent provocateur at the protest in Mechanical.

[01:18:41] Bernard questions Camille about her action to protect Knox and Shirley, but she deflects him.

[01:18:48] Wait, what was that?

[01:18:50] Camille?

[01:18:51] Who was Camille?

[01:18:53] It's Sims' wife.

[01:18:55] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:18:56] Yeah.

[01:18:57] That's right.

[01:18:57] That's what we were just talking about earlier.

[01:18:59] Knox and Shirley lead a group attack on the blockade and push it 10 floors higher, claiming critical farming level 122.

[01:19:07] Billings questions Walker, Knox and Shirley about Meadows' death.

[01:19:10] When Billings tells Bernard via radio that he wants to open a formal investigation into Meadows' death, Bernard is pissed.

[01:19:18] Bernard shuts down radio communication in the silo.

[01:19:22] Lucas works on decoding Quinn's letter, and the sophistication of the cipher prompts Bernard to make Lucas his shadow so he can access the legacy.

[01:19:31] In Silo 17, Juliet wakes after being treated by Sola, who has hidden her suit to force her to fix the pump before leaving.

[01:19:41] I mean, now that we're – because I, you know, hadn't really felt all that pulled to watch these as they came out, but I binged it to get ready for the podcast.

[01:19:51] Now I'm going to watch the next one as soon as it comes out.

[01:19:55] I got to know what happens.

[01:19:57] Yeah.

[01:19:58] I've been – Amelie, you've been watching it week by week since it started, right?

[01:20:04] Or did – I waited – I think on the third week I started watching, but I've been excited each Friday from then on to get it because I feel like they've been building the mystery and the story really well.

[01:20:16] So –

[01:20:17] What I kind of loved about this episode is Bernard's with Lucas, and they're figuring out this code, and he realizes that Lucas needs to see, quote, the legacy in order to solve the code.

[01:20:31] He's like, okay, I'll just make you my shadow.

[01:20:32] And I kind of wish that Sims would have been in the room to see that.

[01:20:39] So do you think it was a desperate measure from Bernard?

[01:20:42] A what?

[01:20:43] Oh, desperate measure?

[01:20:44] Yeah, I mean, I think he was like – I guess so.

[01:20:48] I mean, I think with Sims, sometimes when you know that someone below you wants something really bad and you think that they're – I don't know.

[01:20:57] I could see Bernard being like resistant to giving it to him.

[01:21:01] Right.

[01:21:01] I don't know exactly how to explain that.

[01:21:03] But with Lucas, he doesn't even want it.

[01:21:05] Sometimes you want to give things to people who seem like they don't want it.

[01:21:08] That's why a lot of politicians pretend that they didn't actually want it, but everyone asked them to run, so they ran because it's just more endearing, right?

[01:21:16] I feel like there's some of that going on.

[01:21:18] So it is desperation.

[01:21:19] I mean, the thing that in that moment Bernard wants most is to find out what this letter is all about, and he knows Lucas can help him figure it out.

[01:21:27] But I also think like say Sims was there and Sims could be the one to decode the letter.

[01:21:33] He probably still would have promoted him, but it wouldn't have come so easily to him maybe, you know?

[01:21:39] Yeah.

[01:21:39] Well, that's just that though.

[01:21:41] Like Sims is power hungry.

[01:21:42] Yeah.

[01:21:44] And Lucas, like he just wants to live and not be in the mines.

[01:21:48] Oh, that's a different type of motivation.

[01:21:51] And I think Sims is a good goon, but he doesn't have Lucas's brain, you know?

[01:21:58] And Lucas already is hungry for knowledge, so why not just let him have the knowledge?

[01:22:03] But it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

[01:22:07] That's one thing I'm most curious about.

[01:22:09] I think it's going to backfire on Bernard for sure.

[01:22:11] I would say it's also like there has to be some level of pressure Bernard has felt to replace having a shadow, especially with unrest happening and with his sort of second in command Sims.

[01:22:25] They're at odds now, so he has to realize no matter how cocky he is, that his life is potentially in some sort of danger.

[01:22:33] And so setting up a shadow would be even more important.

[01:22:37] And he's seen that not only what you're saying, that this guy is not power hungry.

[01:22:43] Hopefully that means he would be better fit to put the silo first, but also he's smart.

[01:22:50] And like you do need that intelligence.

[01:22:52] So there's got to be just like pressure to get a at least decent person in that position in case something happens.

[01:23:00] Do you think it did factor in for Bernard that Lucas could be actually a good candidate?

[01:23:07] It wasn't purely just, yeah.

[01:23:09] I think he knew that from just seeing, you know, we don't get to see him watching the conversation,

[01:23:16] but we get clues to know he watched that conversation where he saw what Lucas was able to figure out on his own,

[01:23:23] that the earth is probably an orb spinning like that.

[01:23:27] I think he knew this was a trajectory and that these first two days were like him testing the waters to see if Lucas could begin to solve the cipher.

[01:23:40] Like he was impressed with the, what was he calling it?

[01:23:43] A Caesar.

[01:23:44] Caesar code.

[01:23:45] Caesar code.

[01:23:46] Yeah.

[01:23:46] Like he was impressed with what was happening.

[01:23:49] And so I think, I don't disagree with what you guys just said, but I think that maybe there's like a couple different layers to it and that this was something like,

[01:24:00] yes, he needs this puzzle solved now and potentially anyone who had been convenient to do that,

[01:24:05] he may have done this with and promoted them so that they could get him the answer he wanted.

[01:24:10] But I think maybe he also sees Luke, like the qualities he needs in a shadow anyways, is my guess.

[01:24:20] And I think it's convenient for Bernard too, because nobody knows, you know, nobody knows what Lucas is working on and he doesn't have to share that knowledge with the other like techs and IT.

[01:24:31] So I think it's an advantage for him.

[01:24:33] And nobody's missing Lucas.

[01:24:35] Like Lucas already seemed a bit like a loner, but he was, you know, sent off to the mine.

[01:24:42] So no one's expecting him or noticing he's missing or anything.

[01:24:45] So it's very convenient.

[01:24:48] And I'm, I like it because I want to see more of Avi Nash.

[01:24:52] Yeah.

[01:24:53] So I was like, oh, this is a great development.

[01:24:58] What else?

[01:24:59] Well, about that.

[01:25:01] I'm just wondering, cause Bernard thinks that Juliet is dead and I'm thinking there's going to be, if she doesn't come back to the silo 18 this season, there's going to be some kind of communication.

[01:25:12] Like maybe she will use a communication system to communicate with silo 17.

[01:25:17] Like we don't know.

[01:25:17] It's just.

[01:25:18] Um, well, yeah, because she passes out from her infection and it's after she's had this scary interaction with solo and run away basically.

[01:25:29] But then she wakes up near him and he's made his own antibiotics and giving it to her.

[01:25:34] But then he says, um, he won't give her the suit until she's fixed the, what is it?

[01:25:40] The water levels rising.

[01:25:42] Yeah.

[01:25:42] He wants her to pump it out.

[01:25:43] He wants her to pump the water.

[01:25:44] Yeah.

[01:25:45] Yeah.

[01:25:45] So now she's stuck there for however long it takes to do that.

[01:25:49] Presuming she's even going to try, which I assume she will.

[01:25:52] Who knows?

[01:25:53] Yeah.

[01:25:54] Well, that's one thing.

[01:25:54] But what happens when Lucas and Juliet were friends and even almost kissed, I think once.

[01:26:01] What happens when they are in communication with the knowledge that Lucas is going to have and Juliet's position?

[01:26:09] Yeah.

[01:26:09] And that's why I'm saying it's going to backfire on Bernard because.

[01:26:12] Maybe.

[01:26:13] I don't know what Lucas is going to do.

[01:26:14] Maybe he's going to have to make a choice.

[01:26:15] Like he's going to have to take, pick a side.

[01:26:19] And I, the Lucas we know now may not be the same Lucas after he gets all that information.

[01:26:25] Like look what it did to Meadows to have whatever info she had off that drive.

[01:26:30] She became an alcoholic for 40 years.

[01:26:34] And who knows how any of us would deal with it either.

[01:26:36] I think what I would want to do is, like I was saying at the, more towards the beginning of this podcast, is try to give every, to let everyone know everything I knew.

[01:26:49] And if, I think if everyone knew, okay, it is toxic out there.

[01:26:54] You, you can't go out there without protection and you can't go out there for very long.

[01:27:00] Um, and then whatever else they know that we don't even know yet because they haven't revealed it in the series.

[01:27:05] Then they could take that information and act smartly with it.

[01:27:09] You know, maybe, um, maybe.

[01:27:11] Unless it's more complicated than that.

[01:27:12] Unless it's more complicated.

[01:27:13] But with what we know now, maybe, maybe, uh, they don't know very much and they need to learn.

[01:27:18] So they could send people out to learn like Knox and Shirley wanted to do.

[01:27:22] Or maybe they do know, yeah, like you're saying things that mean, nope, we're just going to be having to live in this silo forever because of the alien monsters outside or whatever, whatever it is, you know?

[01:27:33] Well, I mean, just the fact that people would realize that there are 50 silos and not just their silos if they go outside and that they've been lied to for this long.

[01:27:42] Like, that could create also a revolution.

[01:27:45] It could, but if I became the leader and I'd say, Hey, I'm the new leader and I want you to know that you've been lied to this whole time, but now it's going to be an age of truth.

[01:27:55] Okay.

[01:27:56] And people are listening and they're going, Oh, your government's going down, buddy.

[01:27:59] All these people are going to die because of you.

[01:28:01] I mean, at the very least, something we do know is that all those silos are back to back to back because we've seen the overhead shot of her stumbling into 17.

[01:28:10] And so if you decide for your silo and you're sending people out, they're crossing those cafeteria cameras in all those other silos.

[01:28:20] You're deciding for an entire network of people, you know, not just your silo.

[01:28:27] I would go around and start cleaning the cameras.

[01:28:29] Yeah.

[01:28:30] They could have cleaning parties and dance by and like my tongue.

[01:28:34] Yeah.

[01:28:34] Flipping them off.

[01:28:35] Moon.

[01:28:36] You know, really mature stuff.

[01:28:39] That's what Veronica would do.

[01:28:44] That'd be so awesome.

[01:28:46] You should be writing this show.

[01:28:47] Oh my God.

[01:28:48] Yes.

[01:28:50] Anything else?

[01:28:51] I think that's pretty good.

[01:28:53] Yeah.

[01:28:54] Right.

[01:28:55] I think so.

[01:28:56] All right.

[01:29:43] Okay.

[01:29:44] There's just one piece of news that I got.

[01:29:48] There probably is more silo news, but this one's pretty big that silo has been renewed for a third and fourth season on Apple TV plus.

[01:29:56] And the fourth is going to be the last, which I love.

[01:29:59] Like there gets a right to the end.

[01:30:01] Right.

[01:30:01] Yeah.

[01:30:02] Right.

[01:30:03] To an ending.

[01:30:04] Showrunner Graham Yost said, quote,

[01:30:05] it's been a richly rewarding experience to adapt Hughes epic novels with our partners at Apple.

[01:30:10] And we're thrilled to have the opportunity to bring the complete story to the screen over the course of four seasons.

[01:30:15] With the final two chapters of silo, we can't wait to give fans of the show an incredibly satisfying conclusion to the many mysteries and unanswered questions contained within the walls of these silos.

[01:30:25] And Rebecca Ferguson, who plays Juliet said, I've loved every minute of bringing Juliet to the screen and I'm immensely proud of what we've all created with silos since the first episode.

[01:30:34] I've always felt passionately about telling the entire story contained within Hugh Howey's books.

[01:30:39] So I couldn't be happier that audiences around the world have enthusiastically embraced the show alongside our partners at Apple, Graham and the entire cast and crew.

[01:30:47] I cannot wait to dive into these final two thought provoking seasons that will beautifully conclude this dystopian tale.

[01:30:54] Ooh, exciting.

[01:30:56] Yeah.

[01:30:57] Good news.

[01:30:59] I'm trying to think, have I ever started podcasting about a show?

[01:31:03] Yes.

[01:31:04] That got canceled.

[01:31:05] It was a heartbreaker.

[01:31:07] It was Ash versus Evil Dead because that was a great show, you know, that was such a bummer.

[01:31:12] But I think it would be even more of a bummer if the show wasn't good and then it got canceled to be like, why did I waste my time with that?

[01:31:18] But anyway, I'm glad to hear they're concluding this one in the right way.

[01:31:21] Yeah, I think this will be great.

[01:31:24] All right, let's get into it.

[01:31:25] We just got a little bit of listener feedback here.

[01:31:27] I'll read the first one.

[01:31:28] Ben Stone says, yes, enjoying it.

[01:31:31] Looking forward to it expanding out more.

[01:31:34] Lisa Moreno says, I'm loving the new season.

[01:31:37] Is anyone watching?

[01:31:38] Earth Abides, that's really good too.

[01:31:41] Earth Abides is what I, where I connected with that is back when I was in junior college, when I was like 19 years old, I took a creative writing class and my teacher mentioned this book, Earth Abides.

[01:31:59] And it was post-apocalyptic.

[01:32:01] So I know it's a post-apocalyptic story.

[01:32:04] At that time, it may have been one of the first post-apocalyptic stories I'd ever heard of.

[01:32:10] And so just imagining the idea of the planet Earth where most people are dead.

[01:32:16] There may be some, I think there's probably some kind of a sickness that kills people off or something.

[01:32:20] It was so horrifying to me that I didn't even want to read the book.

[01:32:23] And now I just think that's so funny given what we talk about all the time, you know?

[01:32:28] Yeah.

[01:32:29] But I hear this series is good.

[01:32:32] Oh, cool.

[01:32:32] We'll check it out.

[01:32:33] We'll check it out, yeah.

[01:32:36] From Matt King says, really enjoying season two so far, having the second location helps.

[01:32:42] The addition of the mysterious solo is working well.

[01:32:46] He appears to have done something horrific and probably should be in solitary.

[01:32:50] His interactions with Julia are so interesting to watch and wondering what he may do next.

[01:32:56] Back in the old silo, killing off the judge was startling.

[01:33:00] Tib Rahmids is knocking it out of the park with his performance so far.

[01:33:03] And the way he turned the murder of the judge onto the team for mechanical shows just how calculated he is.

[01:33:09] I agree.

[01:33:10] It was like several layers of calculation there.

[01:33:13] And yes, him commenting on the addition of solo, I think is, I love that character.

[01:33:20] I think just the absolute highlight of the season.

[01:33:23] Absolutely.

[01:33:25] Do you guys feel sympathetic at all towards Bernard or not?

[01:33:30] That depends what he knows that I don't know.

[01:33:33] So you're not sure yet because you don't have the whole picture?

[01:33:36] I know he's terrified and I want to know what he's so terrified of.

[01:33:40] Like, I don't see him as a straight villain.

[01:33:43] Like, I don't hate him.

[01:33:44] I don't agree with the decisions he makes.

[01:33:46] And I think he's cold or he'll choose.

[01:33:51] Yeah.

[01:33:51] Like, I wouldn't choose.

[01:33:53] I don't know.

[01:33:54] I don't know if I would choose that because I don't know what he knows, I guess.

[01:33:56] But yeah, I think there's room for me for forgiveness for him.

[01:34:03] When we find out the rest of what he knows.

[01:34:05] And I don't think he's driven.

[01:34:08] Like, I do think he likes the power, but I don't think that's the only thing driving him.

[01:34:12] And so that, to me, makes me not just like hate him.

[01:34:17] Yeah.

[01:34:17] I think his main motivation is to keep the most people safe.

[01:34:22] And so that lets me feel some sympathy towards him, even if I don't think I agree with him.

[01:34:29] Yeah.

[01:34:29] Yeah.

[01:34:30] It almost feels like more like a soldier than a leader.

[01:34:32] Like, he is a leader, but he's...

[01:34:35] I saw Jerry's online that he was a robot.

[01:34:39] I don't think that's true.

[01:34:40] More of a Westworld connection.

[01:34:42] Yeah.

[01:34:42] Kind of.

[01:34:43] But I can see why people would think that, you know, because he's very, like...

[01:34:49] He doesn't show his emotions, you know?

[01:34:51] Yeah.

[01:34:51] Except when he cried this season.

[01:34:53] Yeah.

[01:34:53] When he went to Meadows Corpse and was like, I'm sorry.

[01:34:57] Yeah, but she has to be dead for him to, like, show emotions.

[01:35:00] Like, what does that say about him?

[01:35:04] Okay.

[01:35:04] We got one call from Archmaester Rennie.

[01:35:07] Here goes.

[01:35:09] Hi, Veronica, Jason, Amelie.

[01:35:12] So I have read the book series that Silo has based on.

[01:35:16] And one of the things that I'm enjoying in this season is that it has really diverged from the books so that what is coming is a surprise, even for book readers.

[01:35:28] Not in the larger picture.

[01:35:29] The larger picture is clearly still there.

[01:35:31] But a lot of the details and particular plot lines, like what is going on with the water in Silo 17, are different from the books.

[01:35:43] And so that's kind of fun to see where they're going and what they're going to do with that.

[01:35:48] I really, really liked the book series.

[01:35:53] It's different from, well, it's a pretty original science fiction idea.

[01:36:00] And I am just claustrophobic enough that the idea of living my entire life in a silo really freaks me out.

[01:36:08] And I don't mind being freaked out by things I read or things I watch.

[01:36:12] So it's good.

[01:36:13] I think Rebecca Ferguson is great in the main role.

[01:36:17] I think many of the supporting cast are also great.

[01:36:20] So I'm really enjoying it.

[01:36:22] I hope you all have also.

[01:36:25] I'm glad to hear that the details are somewhat different just to keep the book readers interested, like you, Rebecca.

[01:36:33] Yeah, it's been good.

[01:36:34] Part of it helps that it's been a long time since I read, read the books.

[01:36:37] I did a light audio book re-listen.

[01:36:40] Actually, I think when this season is over, I want to do it again because I feel more immersed.

[01:36:45] I do remember enough that some of the big mysteries are pretty obvious.

[01:36:50] And I'm having to be, like, I've let some of the stuff I've had to let you guys lead on the topic to, like, make sure I know what you know and what you're not guessing.

[01:36:58] Because I'm trying really hard not to spoil anything of what I do remember.

[01:37:05] It's helpful that I don't, like, it's not super fresh.

[01:37:08] But I also underline what Rennie said, that definitely the books are great and they're different and they're written in a, I feel like I remember just, like, a pretty unique way that they're written.

[01:37:20] So really highly recommend them.

[01:37:23] Even if you're not loving the series, they're different enough.

[01:37:27] Like, it's a very different feel to me than the TV show.

[01:37:30] Does it feel noir-ish?

[01:37:33] I don't, it didn't feel that way to me.

[01:37:37] Still, obviously, lots of mystery, but I didn't get that same sort of dark, slow feeling.

[01:37:44] What about the, I was going to ask you this, the aesthetic of the silo, which I think is really cool.

[01:37:50] I think if we're going to be stuck somewhere, it looks kind of oppressive, but also pleasing in a way.

[01:37:58] And anyway, I wonder if it's what you thought it might be or if it's different than you thought.

[01:38:03] It feels so good, like, so perfect.

[01:38:05] Like, it is very similar to what I was picturing in my head when I read the books initially.

[01:38:11] And it's been, I think, one of the best parts and one of the best characters in the show has been the sets.

[01:38:19] And they're obviously having to use a lot of visual effects, I think, to get the feeling of this.

[01:38:26] And I never feel pulled out by that.

[01:38:29] Like, I feel like it's been done really well.

[01:38:33] And as a book reader, it feels consistent with what I was picturing.

[01:38:37] Did you guys notice, and it's been hard because it's been so much in shadow, but Silo 17 feels like they used much brighter colors in the decor.

[01:38:49] And I don't know if it's just because I'm catching it.

[01:38:52] But even, like, the apartments she went in, I thought I was noticing it.

[01:38:55] And then I started wondering, did they do, like, does each silo have unique designs?

[01:39:01] Yeah.

[01:39:01] I would imagine, I mean, they're restricted by the materials that are available, but also that just like any society, you'd have different cultural things coming.

[01:39:12] Trends and things.

[01:39:14] True.

[01:39:20] All right.

[01:39:21] That is our show, episode 627.

[01:39:23] Thanks so much, everyone.

[01:39:24] I hope you guys enjoyed that.

[01:39:26] Thank you guys for coming back and doing it.

[01:39:29] We got to come back for the final one.

[01:39:31] And I don't know for sure, timing-wise, if it's going to work out to come back, like, soon after the finale airs.

[01:39:40] But, because it might be nice to come back during a break in the rewatch.

[01:39:44] And then we also have The Last of Us coming back.

[01:39:48] We don't know exactly when.

[01:39:49] And also Dead City.

[01:39:51] So, we'll see.

[01:39:52] But we'll definitely, you guys are into doing when it's over, right?

[01:39:56] Yeah, we got to finish.

[01:39:57] Oh, yes.

[01:39:57] Of course.

[01:39:58] So, at some point, it might be a little bit later, but we will come back and cover it when it makes sense.

[01:40:03] Next episode, though, as I mentioned at the top, is Walking Dead Season 4, episode 130 Days Without an Accident.

[01:40:09] That'll be in two weeks, dropping on probably Monday, January 6th, or a couple days earlier if you're a Patreon subscriber.

[01:40:17] You get episodes early and ad-free.

[01:40:20] And if you want to write in or leave us a message, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:40:28] While you're there, be sure to check out our other shows.

[01:40:32] Looks like Jason wants me to shamelessly plug myself here.

[01:40:35] So, I will be co-hosting with David, Daphne, and Jason on The Squid Game for Season 2.

[01:40:44] That is just about to drop later this week, the first episode.

[01:40:49] And I listened, and you and Daphne did an awesome sort of get ready for the next season and talk about last season.

[01:40:55] And it definitely made me excited for more excited than I already am for Season 2.

[01:41:01] Me too.

[01:41:02] Yeah.

[01:41:02] It always helps.

[01:41:03] When you just start talking about something, they're like, oh, yeah, I can't wait.

[01:41:06] Yeah, it's going to be really, really good.

[01:41:08] And then, yeah, Veronica, I just mentioned since Veronica's here that since we podcasted last, Veronica was on Dragon Cast for House of the Dragon.

[01:41:19] I almost said House of the Dead.

[01:41:21] House of the Dragon Season 2 with Rennie and Wendy.

[01:41:23] And that was great.

[01:41:24] You guys did a great job.

[01:41:26] Yeah.

[01:41:26] It's such a good show.

[01:41:27] Oh, such a good show.

[01:41:29] And my gosh, Rennie and Wendy are amazing.

[01:41:32] I was just there for the ride.

[01:41:34] You guys are all a good team.

[01:41:35] So this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Kirstie Keene, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi.

[01:41:43] So thanks so much, Kirstie and everyone else who's doing that.

[01:41:47] As mentioned, you get ad-free episodes of all the podcasts I'm on.

[01:41:51] So you don't have to listen to those pesky ads.

[01:41:54] And at least for The Walking Dead rewatch, I try to put those out a couple days early for Patreon people.

[01:42:03] All right.

[01:42:03] That is our show.

[01:42:04] Thanks for listening.

[01:42:06] Don't moon the camera, Matt King.