618: "30 Days Without an Accident" (TWD S4E1 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm?

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Ah!

[00:00:09] Hmmmm...

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I think I got it.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Got what?

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I've been trying to guess what Darryl did before the turn.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I was trying to guess for like 6 weeks.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pacing myself.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: One shot a day.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, shoot.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the way you are at the prison,

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you're being on the council, you're able to track, you're helping people,

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: while you're still being kind of, uh, surly.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Big swinging.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Homicide cop.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So funny.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Jason.

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Lucy.

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Karen.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is The Cast of Us, episode 618.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, season 4, episode 1, 30 Days Without an Accident.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yay!

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the podcast, Karen.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen had asked to cover this one, and we were happy to oblige and have you back on.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yay!

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's always good to see you guys.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy New Year.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Happy New Year, everybody.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Happy New Year.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's listening?

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Glad to be...

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm...

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of cool the new year started, and we're right here with season 4, episode 1.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That feels good.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We've had 30 days without an accident, hopefully.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And let me read the summary.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It says, Rick and group have settled into a more stable life at the prison where they built a community with new survivors.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Rick has taken a step back from leadership and focuses on farming, even finding a gun discarded in the dirt.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Carol secretly teaches the children survival skills under the guise of story time.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, a supply run led by Daryl Glenn and others at a grocery store...

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would put Sasha in there for sure...

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: ...goes awry when a crashed helicopter causes the roof to collapse, unleashing a horde of walkers.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Beth's boyfriend, Zach, is killed during the chaos.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Back at the prison, a young survivor named Patrick falls ill and dies in the showers, reanimating as a walker, hinting at a new threat.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I wondered if I could just add timeline here, because it's the start of the season.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to ask you.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And a time jump.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_05]: According to the wiki, and I'm going to go off on one about the wiki in a moment, this episode takes place on January 26th, which is day 520 post the turn.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So Judith is six months old, which looks about right.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: January 26th, I'm going to put a big question mark over because it doesn't look like winter.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_05]: But here we are.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're doing seasonal suspension of disbelief for the rest of the series.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the whole series, because in the book by this point they'd had some issues with weather and snow.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And they didn't get to put that in the show because it doesn't really snow in Georgia.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: No.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And also they film, well, they do film some in the winter, but mostly I think through the summer, if I remember right.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So Rick's been awake for like almost a year and a half.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So it's, we're, we're far in now.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So, and Bob has been found a week before this episode takes place.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So day 513 is when they come across Bob Stookey.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_05]: That was the other event that the wiki mentioned for this episode.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of cool that it's just past New Year's for them to January 26th.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I was thinking that.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Cool.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_05]: So this would be 2012 in the apocalypse timeline.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen, what did you, you must've liked this one since you wanted to be on.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: What, how was it to revisit in general?

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, it was good.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, I rewatched this one quite a few times.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like my favorite episode, but, um, I think I wanted to podcast with you about it because my perception is that it gets a lot of grief for not being like explosive or an exciting episode.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, in relation to like other season premieres, like certainly season five, that premiere has like literal explosion and quieter character moments too.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But this premiere is a little slower.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_01]: It resolves a cliffhanger.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really, I mean, those two episodes are two of my favorites of the whole series, season four finale and five intro.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think I, I wanted to come on and defend it a bit because I think it's a very solid season premiere and it's really good about giving us context about the state of the main characters while introducing us to new ones.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And, um, it, I think it lays out a good thesis that, um, it answers at the season finale, meaning that I think season four is actually one of the most consistently taught and like comprehensive seasons of the series.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: One of the best.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, yeah, I mean, it's so this is Scott Gimple's first episode as showrunner.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's kind of cool to start with the time gap because he can come in and make some changes to show his new direction.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But I compare it kind of to, uh, season three and four of fear of the walking dead where Dave Erickson left as showrunner and, uh, Ian Goldberg and Adam Chandlis came in.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, there are some changes here to the story, but I feel like it organically follows really well to what's come before.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's probably because Scott Gimple was a big part of the show.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he became the showrunner, I presume because he'd written some of the best episodes.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but with fear of the walking dead, they just swept away everything and totally went a new direction, even ignoring who the characters were at their core.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think this is the way to do it rather than what fear of the walking dead did.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, um, I don't know why I'm saying this right now.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I liked the episode.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a really good vibe.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, uh, uh, it feels like it expanded.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a new direction, but more of an expansion of what was already happening.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, it's got a great little set piece with the zombies in the big spot, you know?

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So it is exciting, I think, but, uh, more than that, it's full of little character moments and just new things.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it was great.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And, and my second reason for being intrigued with this episode is I don't know why, but I'm always like looking for the best episode to present to my non walking dead friends.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Like one where they can easily access the characters and the storyline without much context.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is a good candidate because we get time with each character, like you just said, and, um, or group of characters and the themes are like really easily understood.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: If not like explicitly stated.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit too on the nose sometimes.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think I just always want to like, it's a, it's an ego validation thing that I always want to prove to my friends that walking dead is like first and foremost, a drama, like a character study.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the zombies are backdrop.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, one other thing I forgot to say up top, but, uh, uh, cause I was busy welcoming in Karen, but it's been like three weeks since you were here, Lucy, and I'm glad you're back.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I missed you.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, buddy.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: We all missed you.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_05]: We all missed you.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the last time.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Three weeks.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: It's this weird nebulous time between Christmas and new year where you just get confused about what day it is.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was so jazzed to be watching the walking dead again.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And I really agree with like all that Karen said.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think the season four is probably one of my favorite seasons and it's funny because I'm quite critical of Gimple, but I think this season is him at his best.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I think this is actually a really strong season.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And as a season opener, I loved this one.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the set piece in the middle is so cool.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I just, there's so much to enjoy.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: There were some bits that I really didn't enjoy and we'll talk about those, but overall, I think it's a really strong episode.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I also just to kind of stick it in here.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The title 30 days without an accident is a good title.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think for this episode, because it's about how calm things have gotten in, how they've used that to progress and bring new people in and be more civilized and have story time and farming and everything.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But that title is also ominous because when you hear something like that, you know, that an accident is coming and we know damn well, it means we're going to see something bad happen.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think zombies falling through the roof at the, at the big spot was the big one, but there's also Rick encountering this dangerous woman.

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And also, I think just the idea that Rick's pacifism and disengagement can't last long, you know, especially in hindsight.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think in the moment you wondered, oh, is this going to be the new Rick? Is that going to be interesting?

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But in hindsight, we know he gets much more violent than he's ever been before later on in the series.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Karen, what's your first point?

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to start with low hanging fruit or low hanging plants, as it were.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to start with the cold open because it goes right into what you were saying about how we open not on Rick's face, but it's a pan across these verdant plants and flowers.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The birds are singing.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_03]: There is a wide shot where Rick looks out at various animal pens and stables and we see garden beds.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And all of this is communicated to us visually.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: It's showing us it doesn't tell us about the growth and the progress that our survivors have made in the six months between seasons three and four.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: How much progress they made in peacetime.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, later we confirm that Michonne has yet to encounter the governor or nobody's encountered the governor.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So they've had these six months of peace or at least 30 days of peace.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And then there's obviously this heavy handed metaphor of Rick's gun buried in the field.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Again, we see this.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We're not told that that Rick has chosen to abstain from violence to preserve his humanity, I guess, and to be a pacifist.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_03]: But we know that like, however much he tries to shield himself from brutality, it always finds him as later on the woman in the woods, Clara, she is the one who initiates to him.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_03]: She initiates interaction with him.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So harsh reality of the apocalypse always finds him.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's trying to shield himself from reality by emptying the gun magazine and throwing it away and also plugging his ears with hymnal music.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And I did some research.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's Precious Memories by John B.F. Wright.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And it was written in 1920s.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And Wright was a farmer himself who wrote over 500 songs.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And he wrote Precious Memories to process the grief of losing his five year old son.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: He wanted to go back to the happier time in his life.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And this hymn recalls like the rosier world before the fall, before everything crumbled to death.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And next season early on, he'll be in a church chopping some people up.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Nice try Rick, but.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't avoid it.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't.

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I just like how it's like visually communicated that there's progress.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember feeling like, like I kind of said this already, but.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is weird.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's this whole, we hear about a council.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So not only has he, is he trying to abstain from violence and ignore, like you see the walkers there and he's got his earbuds in.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: When he takes them out, you can hear her and he puts them back in.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't even want to deal.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And, and there's a council.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that he's also abdicated leadership.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember feeling like this is a really interesting progression for him.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Will it be, will it be good for the show?

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, will I enjoy this?

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I, I didn't know.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they had kept that as a characteristic of his through the rest of the series, I think it really would have been challenging to build stories around it.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe where central part of the show is violence and conflict.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And here's the main character.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't want to deal with that.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it would have worked, you know, but it's the interesting development, at least for now.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to like reframe how I look at Rick and these things.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Cause it's almost like he's a.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It's almost like he's an addict recovering from something like he can't even let himself dabble in a little light shooting lest he become rhetoric.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And I find that a really interesting way in which he kind of catches himself and feels that he, he's either all or nothing.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_05]: He's either covered in blood, waving a gun around screaming, what, or he's a silent farmer.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Like there's no in between.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And I find that lack of moderation, quite an interesting character flaw to, to kind of play with in the next couple of seasons.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think it's going to drive us a bit crazy at some points, but I think at other points it will be interesting for the storylines.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that happens with a lot of the characters.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Morgan's a big example, you know, all or nothing.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He's either, he won't harm a fly or he kills everything he sees.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause even Michonne, like when she goes through that, uh, bad experience with those kids that we keep bringing up and then she won't trust anyone at all after that, you know, to come to the town.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's sort of a, I think a pitfall of, or I don't know if it's a pitfall, but it's easy to fall into that as a writer on this show.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I was going to bounce off Karen's point and talk about the kind of new normal.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's a sense, I always love the sense in a season opener of like, it's like the first day back at school.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So you kind of see where everyone is and where we're at.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So I thought I might talk a little about that.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, Carl and Rick have this really cute interaction about Violet the pig, um, which introduces the storyline about Carl pushing back against being a kid, but still having some very kid like tendencies as he should.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Like he's been up all night reading comics.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_05]: He's naming the pigs, but at the same time, he's uncomfortable sitting in story time.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and has sort of had his eyes opened to the bigger dangers of the world.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: And then of course, Carol puts him in an impossible position later in the episode.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we check in with Carol and Daryl.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Daryl has become kind of a, a hero, a leader.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we see him have this interaction with Patrick who I love.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That little kid is cute.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he's not a little kid.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a teenager, but he's just such a cute little guy.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm really sad that this is the only episode we get to see Patrick in because I love his interactions with Carl.

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And this interaction with Daryl is just so genuine and heartfelt.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and obviously Carol and Daryl have the cute little, I liked you first interaction.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we find out that Pookie again, they bring up Pookie.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, wait, that was already in it before?

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Which one?

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I think so.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Pookie.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Season two or three.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, from three.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, for all you Daryl Carol shippers, I mean, I'm sure that made you happy.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and it's their little, yeah, nickname for each other, like a term of endearment that they bring it up.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_03]: She said it in season nine, I think she did at the, I think in seed and the premiere outside when they were sitting outside.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The prison.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_03]: When they're like asking about the back robes or something.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause I was wondering, cause, um, this felt like, I guess that was sort of the seed of there.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause you know how they always tease each other after this and like in season, I think 10 or maybe it's nine when, um, he says she's his best friend and she's like, what are you 10?

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's so funny.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like, um, we're seeing the start of that dynamic between them.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: It felt here, like really the start of it to me because she calls him Pookie and then he kind of goes, buts against her, you know, but I guess she had already called him that last season.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, so it kind of started there.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, other scene setting that we find out Rick's been letting more people in.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Like Karen says, we've got a fairly, it looks like a fairly good set up at the prison.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_05]: The prison's looking good.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_05]: It's looking much more homely sidebar.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Beth has like the nicest room.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_05]: It reminds me of like when you're a teenager and you put like all sorts of crap on your walls, like pictures, posters.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, Ooh, best sell is lovely.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, we catch up with Karen who I had forgotten is kind of introduced at the end of season three.

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and we see that she and Tyrese have a relationship.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_05]: We see that Tyrese is uncomfortable with killing the walkers, um, in a non combat situation.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I did wonder, we see Karen at the fence, stabbing walkers on fence duty.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Is that how she gets infected?

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's why none of the rest of the gang do because they are not on fence duty at that particular point.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Because, um, you know, we don't know whether this sickness has anything to do with the zombie virus for sure, but it seems like it does because it's so quick acting.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it doesn't really matter whether it does or not.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: All that matters is they get really sick and we know anyone who dies becomes a walker, a zombie.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, I, I think later on in like season eight, father Gabriel, what he's covering himself with guts, get some in his eye and then he gets really sick.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you get the sense that it is possible to sort of get, maybe it's like a mild case of the zombie virus that doesn't actually kill you.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you don't get bitten, but you just get enough gunk in the wrong place or something like that.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we ever know for sure.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_05]: We see some walkers with bleeding from the eyes, which is like the visual cue that it's this flu.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so they have a sickness that they're passing on.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh huh.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And Peter and I had a full discussion about like, did these walkers die of that or did they catch it after they died?

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, I think they probably died of it and that's why they're passing it around to the pigs.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, maybe not.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's some kind of zombie sickness.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You know.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And mutated.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_05]: In terms of what else has happened over summer or summer break, Glenn and Maggie are having a little pregnancy scare.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Beth has a boyfriend who's played by Kyle Golnar, who I remember from Veronica Mars, where he played Cassidy.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I always like him when he's in things.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so it was really nice to see him in this show.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then not so nice.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And then not so nice and a shame that we only have him for an episode.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Bob Stuckey, who's a character in the comics, but very different in the show, uh, played by the amazing Laurence Gilliard Jr.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, who we learn has just kind of joined the group.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, there's such a nice scene of Michonne returning and the Grimes boys being really happy.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so that's kind of scene set as she's really settled in, but she's still looking for the governor.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_05]: And then the other thing we're introduced to is Lizzie and Mika, who I'd forgotten about until we see them.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and yeah, that whole storyline that's going to play out in a big way in this particular season.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So I felt like the scene setting was just great.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt like I was seeing old friends being reminded of things I've really enjoyed about the show and getting to kind of relive those moments.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_05]: So I loved, I think Gimple did a really good job of falling on from what Karen said about visually indicating where we're at, sort of doing it with these little character interactions as well.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And, and kind of setting that up for the rest of the season and for this episode.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think each one of these is like, is it's scene setting and it's sort of checking in, getting a feel for where people are psychologically.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: People we know getting a feel for where they are and then kind of learning a little bit more about new people like Tyrese at the fence, not wanting to kill the zombies face to face shows his sensitivity.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything we talked about with the rig tells where he's at psychologically wanting to sort of like, I like the way you put it best Karen about rather than being a pacifist, just not wanting to, um.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Come from reality.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Risk like losing himself and going, I forget exactly what you said, but he doesn't want to, um, he, he sees these Harbingers.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he hasn't seen this woman Clara yet, but he, he's some Morgan and he's like, I don't want to be like that.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to end up like that.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So far that I can't preserve humanity.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Preserving his humanity.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what you said.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the Carol and Daryl thing, just showing how their relationship has settled into this sort of brother sister kind of a thing.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, Beth with her boyfriend, she is very nonchalant about saying goodbye to him and nonchalant kind of after he dies.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's sad, but she, as she tells Carol, I can't cry.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's just sort of showing that she's getting a nerd to all of this.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, also I felt with her that she felt more present.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the season where she really comes forth as a character in her own right, rather than part of somebody else's story.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And it reminds me of remembering seeing a lot of Beth cosplay at the Walker Stalker cons going forward.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, with Michonne and Rick and Carl, uh, she brings them gifts, comics for Carl and a razor for, uh, Rick and says, and they say, glad to see you, Michonne.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Glad to see you too.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she goes, I found this, your face is losing the war.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, flirt.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's this scene in Alexandria where Rick comes out clean shaven and, uh, Michonne's like, woo.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe Michonne likes a clean shaven dude.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she's picked the wrong one if she does, but like, yeah, it's kind of funny.

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause, um, I was, I had a friend over the last couple of days, my friend Dan, and he used my razor without telling me.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And he didn't put the little attachment back on.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I started shaving, I had a much cleaner shave than I usually have right now because of that.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to say Jason's face is not losing the war.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Sure.

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_05]: He's very clean shaven today.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: No likey.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, no likey.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It looks good.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was just a new thing for you.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I like the scrub.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, Lizzie and Mika.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we were first meeting them, but right off the bat, they're like naming all those.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Nick to the zombies.

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And everything.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Those little girls.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's so hilarious.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And Carl's so pissed and, um, he doesn't want kids thinking, humanizing the zombies because he thinks that's dangerous.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a great dynamic.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I love the moment with Zach guessing what Daryl did before the apocalypse.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So funny.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Thinking, saying he's a cop and Daryl going along with it.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Michonne laughing and Daryl's like, what's so funny?

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But thinking about that, I'm like, the real answer is that he just hunted for food and did scams with Merle, right?

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He, I don't think he ever had a job, but we will never know.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause Zach.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_03]: They never mentioned it because I think Mercer asks him as well in season 11 and he's like, it doesn't matter what happened.

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Glenn and Maggie, I feel like that's about him.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Glenn being, we might say overly cautious, anxious, worried, his heart's in the right place.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, you know, not wanting her to go on the supply run, just knowing how she's always been a badass, but knowing how independent she becomes after he leaves, it feels weird to see him trying to kind of rein her in.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like, dude, don't even.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And then, um, when she, he, she tells him that she's not pregnant and he's so relieved and she's like, we could have done it.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And, and, you know, she wants to live.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: He says, being afraid is what's kept us alive.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: No, she goes, no, it's how we kept breathing.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So that shows where they're at, where he's just really worried, but she's thinking about wanting to enjoy life again.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting because Glenn, Glenn has pushed back against like uncertainty before, like just a few months ago, he was asking for Maggie's hand in marriage, um, knowing that they were going to go into war.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So like, why wasn't he scared about that?

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess it's different when your wife might die in pregnancy and then your baby might be a zombie too.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's decided to step up and be there for her.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I could see marriage fitting into that, but in his mind, being there for her is protecting her, which means, um, not letting her go out or leave a site or, you know, I mean, pregnancy is a little bit of a different thing,

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but not bringing somebody else in the world that they'll have to worry about.

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: True.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It is also, I think the ethics of having a child in the apocalypse.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not, I'm not throwing shade at any of our listeners out there who have chosen to have a child in the apocalypse.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: That's your choice.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but it is like, you see that more explicitly with Laurie and Rick in, um, season two, where she talks about bringing a child into the world for a short, cruel life.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah. And I think there is a quite, even like, you know, some people I know who both have and don't have children talk about the ethics and the fears they have around things like climate change and what kind of life a child is going to have in it.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and there's no easy or right answer to it, but I think for Glenn, that is a terrifying thought.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And of course they're all coming off the bat.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you'd think if I was going to department of suspension of disbelief it a little bit, I might've thought Maggie would be a bit more reticent given that she had to literally deliver Judith.

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_05]: My thoughts too.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Murder Laurie, but you know, she's a tough cookie, so that's cool.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, it's an interesting question.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And now Judith is this cute little baby, so maybe she's like, it was worth it.

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_05]: She's wearing a hat.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Her little hat is so cute.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that Maggie should go if she or anyone who wants to have a baby in this new reality that they should need to go and talk to everybody and get buy-in from the council or whatever before they do it?

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: No.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That seems very Handmaid's Tale.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's absolutely their choice.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but what I think what I'm saying is I think it's, it's okay to have doubts about it.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's, it's at least debatable in this situation because they're in such a precarious situation where resources are scarce and any, and having a baby could impact the group.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, yeah, I know that's, that is kind of a sensitive subject.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's interesting though.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I hadn't thought of that.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me do my first point because I was just sort of responding to, um, Lucy here, but mine is the three questions.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the debut of the three questions that our group uses to vet new people.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, how many walkers have you killed?

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_01]: How many people and why?

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, Rick's helping this woman, Clara, even though she seems sketchy because he's in helping mode, I think.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And after we saw him leave the orange backpack guy at the side of the road last season, and then he saw Morgan who had gone, lost his humanity, gone into killing mode.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And Rick realized he didn't want to continue on his path that way.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So he decided to shift gears, bring in the Woodbarians after the governor was a threat to them.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and now we can see their group has been bringing in new people like Bob and others.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, I, I like that they sort of touch on it, not being all about compassion.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's also about being smart.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I think when you relate it to losing your humanity, there is still a compassion component there, but it's also about being smart.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause Clara says, you know, her husband, Eddie showed her things she had to be willing to do in this reality, like, uh, eating animal carcasses and rotten fruit, leaving people behind, hiding from people who needed her help.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And then she goes, unlike you.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And Rick says, this is not charity.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to have numbers.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: People are the best defense against walkers or people.

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We help each other.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's always my point with this stuff that helping each other is about compassion, but it's also in all of our own best interests to help each other rather than to see everyone else's enemies, because then that's going to be the reality.

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We are all enemies.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Or if we try to see each other as friends and make friends, then we will all be friends.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, I think that's what Rick, at least right now is, is realizing.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I just bring that up.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And just because it all relates to it, you wouldn't need the three questions unless you were in that mode of bringing people in, but wanting to vet them and make sure they're safe.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And so she answers the three questions.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: How many walkers have you killed?

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Eddie killed them all until he died.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: How many people just herself?

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause she just stabbed herself.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Why?

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_01]: She says, you don't get to come back from things, but I'm, I know we've talked about this on the podcast before, but.

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But just what makes these three questions?

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Cause I remember when I first heard them, I thought, oh, that's kind of dumb.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd have better questions than this.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And when they get to the Commonwealth, they have a ton of questions, but just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They feel very gimplish.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, I mean, just how many walkers have you killed?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I think is about just getting a sense of how much experience and skill they have and willingness to kill the walkers.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Because as we see throughout the series, they tend to run into people who for whatever reason have been shielded from it.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's probably, I would guess better if people have killed a lot of walkers.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So they'd know that they'd be an asset.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's just speculation.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, how many people on the other hand is more about like, are you a good or a bad person?

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And that those two last questions pair together, how many people and why?

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if they've killed a lot of people, then they want to know why was it for a good reason, which there are good reasons.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, I think if somebody had killed people for a good reason, that might actually be a plus depending on the situation in this world.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, more important probably is if you killed people because you just felt like it or whatever.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the big flaw in all of this is that people could lie, you know, of course.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: If you killed a bunch of people just because you felt like it, you wouldn't say that.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But I guess, yeah, by asking people those questions, you can sometimes read whether someone's lying or not.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's quite interesting.

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I was going to say, um, to Lucy's point, I think it's like the manner in which people answer his questions.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's what he's assessing.

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Not necessarily the answers that they're giving him.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I think he's looking for like how they answer the questions.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Do they answer with regret in their voice or like, you know, their body language language?

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Does it show like pride in killing people or pride in killing all the walkers?

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Even if you're killing walkers, like that does something to your humanity too.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So like, you know.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: As Tyrese shows.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't want to.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So like, do they bristle or are they defensive when they're answering?

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I think at this point in the apocalypse, like everybody has killed somebody or killed walkers maybe.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so it's really the why is probably the only, the answer that like the literal answer matters.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, I don't know.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Show, um, Scott Gimple also said that he created the three questions as a tool to showcase the fluidity of morality.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So like, I don't know.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think I agree with you.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't quite understand that.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Like.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Like as a relative, like it's not have you killed people?

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_05]: It's how many have you killed?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_05]: How many?

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So there's no judgment for the killing of people.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Got it.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: It's more about the context in which you did it.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that would be my understanding.

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, I might be wrong.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to go with Lucy because.

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes sense to me.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, Scott and I are close.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of what I'm saying.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you killed people just because you felt like it, that's not so great.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you killed people because there were some bad people who were about to kill a bunch of children and you killed them first, then that's a different context.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's interesting because I was here for season 306 where they started asking those questions.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Jim was the one who asked the questions on the phone when Rick was going insane on the phone.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He got it from his own insane mind.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03]: His own psyche.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot about that.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you remembered that.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was like, we don't know for sure who came up with those, but it was sort of Rick.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm even questioning, I think this is a stretch, but I'm even questioning if Clara is a figment of Rick's imagination because nobody else saw her.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And like he's still struggling himself with the bad things he's done and if he can come back.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I think, yeah, I think maybe we, now that you mentioned it, maybe we talked about that on the podcast before, 10 years ago or whatever.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that probably not, but maybe.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it could be that.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_05]: We do see her again, though.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_05]: We see her in When the Prison is Overrun.

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And so we realize at that point that Rick didn't finish her off.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_05]: He honored her wish.

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I hope.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_05]: He honored her wish.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: She wanted to be a zombie with her husband.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But also if we're going along with the theory that she is a figment of his imagination, when he finally understands that we can come back from the bad things we've done, because he says that right before Herschel gets killed, you know?

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we see Herschel smile because he knows that Rick has finally realized that.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Then Clara comes back.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like a book ending.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm reading too much into it.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I like that.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You're not.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's absolutely, I'm sure.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That's why that happened in that order.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But it still could have been a figment, yeah, of his imagination.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But before we move on to anything else, just to wrap this point up, the fact that this is the first time we hear the three questions, I think, shows that there's a new focus.

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first time outside of Rick's hallucination is that there's a new focus on bringing strangers into the group who need to be vetted.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a focus of the show from now on.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they and most of these new people end up dying.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But when they get to Alexandria, it comes back again and the Commonwealth.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's significant because a big theme of the show is about whether you can trust new people.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, going back to Randall.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always been about that.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I like that the show was about larger and larger communities as it went along.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I like the feeling of the larger community in this show.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It ends up being a false start, I think, because they lose everyone except Bob, if I remember right.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, then Alexandria Hilltop Commonwealth.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's sort of we're coming back to this rewatch.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: You can see this is a step in the progression of the show.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: With communities.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_03]: That goes right into my next point of you're mentioning communities.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But I like how this episode is kind of playing with the question of isolation versus community.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Which one is better?

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_03]: It kind of turns that it turns something on its head.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll explain soon that in previous seasons and like it's almost a given that community prevails over isolation.

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Because, you know, Daryl tells Merle in the previous season we can't make it without people anymore.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Andrea says the same thing before she dies.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we can't make it alone.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And Daryl says I never could.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And like Jason just said, Rick tells Clara you have to have numbers.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_03]: People are the best defense against walkers or people.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: But now coming together and surviving the apocalypse together is actually what's going to bring about their downfall.

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Because there's a disease on the loose.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: There's plague and pestilence now.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's really clever that the show is doing that.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Because if the survivors have already semi-controlled the walkers, it's time to weaponize our character's greatest asset.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is being physically close and harmonious.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_03]: And so they're making each person a vector of disease.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And so the show I think is asking what are the dangers of being alone?

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_03]: What are the dangers that arise from being in a community and surviving together?

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I like that the show doesn't take community for granted.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Rather it examines that question from various angles.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Like really challenging the assumptions that just because you're part of a community that you're set for life.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_03]: That you're good.

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But in this episode without community we see that one goes insane and destitute just like Clara is.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_03]: She goes insane.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_03]: But with community the virus will spread.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's no easy answers here.

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And this question gets examined over and over again.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Because our characters get separated in various ways.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Either by quarantine or by dispersing after the fall of the prison.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean I think the latter half of season four they're all separated right?

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Well that's because the governor comes and they all scatter.

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_03]: So there literally is an episode later on in the season called Alone about Bob Stuckey.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And we also know that Daryl later on finds a community called the Claimers.

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_03]: But the Claimers don't benefit him either.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: They only hurt him.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So again in that instance is isolation better for Daryl or is community better?

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think the show wants us to think about that.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean I also think that this show is good at just being relentlessly bleak.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: When it you know with when Sophia in the barn showed us what kind of show this is.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of another instance of that where it's like oh look they they seem to have all their shit together.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And as you said the walkers are semi-controlled.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: How can we really fuck that up?

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like just when you think you have it all together something comes from an unexpected direction.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember Entertainment Weekly had a YouTube segment that asked Stephen Yeun and Lauren Cohan would Glenn and Maggie rather be safe but separated or trapped together and in danger.

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And both actors answered that they would prefer to be trapped but together because as Stephen put it your world is the people that you love.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're not with them what's the point of continuing on?

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think another thing that what you're saying really brings up that should that I should touch on more when I talk about the importance of trust and being friends and everything is it needs to be the right people because some people can't be trusted and aren't your friends.

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I guess my point is if you go through the world sort of by default seeing everyone as an adversary then there are going to be some people who would have been friends that are going to be your adversaries.

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But on the other side of that coin you can't just go around trusting everyone because that's just as dangerous.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You know you have to have a good vetting process probably better than these three questions more like Commonwealth.

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And then last sub point I'll make about that is that Clara says she couldn't be without Eddie her husband or the head of her husband at all.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So she kept the head as a companion and it seems like really insane.

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But if I think about it I start to empathize with her because it reminds me of that Tom Hanks film Cast Away and how he like fashioned his own companion out of that volleyball and called it Wilson.

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And he drew a face on it so that he could have somebody to talk to.

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And in dire straits like that it doesn't seem insane but very human to like anthropomorphize whatever you have.

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean we do that with our own pets too.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Like we assign them human behaviors and attributes and stuff and human names.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_01]: My cat loves me so I don't.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to poo poo anybody.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously I love pets too.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's like the governor and his family in the barn too.

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And no.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Herschel and his family in the barn.

[00:42:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Governor his daughter.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Daughter.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: People just don't want to let go of their loved ones who have turned.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's part of it too.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know.

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't want to admit.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think we'll see this idea of isolation versus community come up again and again.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But obviously it's the show still champions or like says that community is way better because we still had to have Daryl go out and get the medicine for people in the prison who are suffering.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_03]: From the disease.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think like are there instances of anyone who's isolated and who's been better off because most of the time it's like Morgan he seems insane this woman Clara.

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But what comes to mind is the cheesemaker.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: He seemed all right out there on his own.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_01]: You know.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Well he had a goat.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_05]: He had a lovely goat.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_05]: That episode always makes me really want a goat.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_05]: They seem really fun.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's also isolation versus community relates to the greater theme of what Maggie says later surviving versus breathing.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think if you're like isolated by yourself you're just trying to survive because you don't have people as resources.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_03]: But if you're in a community you're able to thrive like our survivors are thriving in this season.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I just think there's some people and I think it's much more rare but some people just want to be hermits.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_03]: True.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would be more inclined to say yeah you're better off with people but I'm very much that way so I just I guess want to hold open the possibility that for some people maybe isolation is better.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not though.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean the worst punishment in prison is to go into isolation.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: What do they call it?

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Solitary.

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Solitary confinement.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is what I think makes me love seasons three and season four the best like the prison is my favorite setting just because that building is designed to keep people compartmentalized and isolated.

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And yet our survivors are choosing to make a life there and have found ways to make a life there.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I never thought about that but yeah they have this community in this area that's meant to isolate people.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So there feels like there's this weird cognitive dissonance happening.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Well it's also about how the world has changed isn't it?

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_05]: What freedom means.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Freedom means enclosure almost because that keeps you safe from the bigger dangers whereas before the apocalypse freedom meant liberty and being able to go wherever you wanted.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_05]: It's an interesting twist.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really taken with this idea of like the dangers of community as well as the dangers of isolation.

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Because like fundamentally from an anthropology point of view we do need people to survive but the dangers of disease because this whole storyline really reminds me of in The Stand, the Stephen King epic about post-apocalyptic society where the apocalypse in that case was a deadly flu.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: They talk about the flu.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_05]: That in this season we look at that and we look at what happens when things that should be no big deal can kill you and suddenly become life threatening.

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_05]: And a big part of that is community and the spread of disease and how do we keep animals and water and humans all in the same place safe and sanitary.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Sanitary.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And we see that again in Alexandria in seasons nine and ten when the whisperers fuck with the water supply.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Like something as simple as the water supply can be the difference between life and death.

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And I like that these bigger questions are kind of coming into it now.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think you articulated that really well, Karen.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I really I've got my thinky face on.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_01]: With community also there's pros and cons with community comes complications.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: More responsibility to take care of more people.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Different egos or drives.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you govern and get everybody?

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_01]: It's harder to get everybody on the same page.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, having a good system is important.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Having good organization that will sort of encourage good behaviors.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: All this kind of things to think about with a big community that you don't need to think about as much with smaller groups or just by yourself.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And morality and ethics and what do we value and what do we stand for and how do we operate?

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And there's so much to it.

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fascinating.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you got a guy like Daryl around, it's important for him to be a role model because everyone looks up to him so much as much as he would not like to have that.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of love that little dynamic where we saw everyone adoring him.

[00:47:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like they're kind of stand-ins for the fans of the series at this point.

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think Gimple was probably inspired by the fan reaction to Daryl to have everybody on the show start acting like that too.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So funny.

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, one of the facts I have in my IMDb dive is that Gimple directed the actor playing Patrick to act as though he was meeting a rock star.

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Like that was the level of devotion he felt Daryl would inspire in the people there.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's really cool.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Gimple directed Patrick to act like somebody who met Norman Reedus while after us having in Spain having a massage or something.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Patrick kept his boobs in.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Patrick's like, I do a podcast about you, Daryl.

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're talking about Nicotero, right?

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Nicotero directed it.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't get my boobs out for Greg Nicotero.

[00:48:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, I don't know.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, moving on.

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He's a cool guy.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_05]: He's married.

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Next, Lucy?

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's have a look at my list.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll be honest.

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I've always found the stuff with Clara quite annoying in this episode.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I like the questions and I like the way that's kind of introduced in this episode.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_05]: But I've always found her a bit weird in this episode.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Like she just doesn't quite fit tonally.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Even just things like her being Irish feels really strange.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And I know like her story makes sense.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Like there must have been people who were stuck in airports when the apocalypse came.

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a huge part of Station Eleven.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's one of those elements of this episode that I like the least is her kind of arc.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I like it more in the sense of, as we said, it kind of bookends the episode one and episode

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_05]: eight where we see that Rick didn't finish her off.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: But I've always found her and it's no shade against the actress because she's a really great

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_05]: actress.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I think one of the pieces of feedback we have this week is that she's actually in Better

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Call Saul or something.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_01]: She's Mike Ehrmantraut's daughter in Stacey and she's played by Carrie Condon.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Carrie Condon is great, but I've always found it feels like a weird appendix to this episode.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's something that I have always found probably the weakest part of it is that interaction

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: between Rick and her.

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And I actually like the idea that she doesn't exist because that would give it a bit more

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_05]: meaning than I feel it kind of has in this episode as a whole.

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think I might be in the minority there and it might just be a personal like it just

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_05]: didn't quite work for me.

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I think she's supposed to make you feel like something's off because even with the Irish

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_03]: accent, maybe that's why like you can't quite pinpoint what what's off about it.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_03]: But it just makes you you're like the hair stand up on your skin.

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Those Irish people.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just.

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I mean.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I know that's not what you mean.

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the uncanniness of it.

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like, oh, OK.

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, this is a bit surreal.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, OK.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_05]: That's weird.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_05]: OK.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's an odd one.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, to me, if I had to pick a low point of the episode, that would probably be it for

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_05]: me.

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't call I wouldn't say it's it's a low point for me.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't make me uncomfortable.

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: She seemed so she's so dirty that she looks like a zombie and she's so needy.

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_01]: She's got this needy energy.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And and that usually repels me that kind of energy.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_01]: She's very sketchy and untrustworthy.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Rick Rick clearly doesn't know if he can trust her, but he's really trying to.

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Be the kind of person that helps people at this point.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's talking about having had to do bad things.

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think she's supposed to represent, you know, the person who's gone really far.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the whole theme, I would say you could consider the core theme of The Walking Dead

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_01]: to be.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you come back from the dark things that you've done?

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of themes, but maybe that's at least one of the core themes.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And she really just sort of is the human representation of that.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so when he's looking at her and she she couldn't come back from it.

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_01]: She killed herself rather than try to come back.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's one reason why Rick screamed no, because he wants he wants to feel like

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_01]: he's not going to go there and that he can come back from the things that he already did.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think he wants external proof that that's possible, too.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so to see somebody not be able to come back for it is kind of bad news for him.

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that that's like a selfish reason to not want her to kill herself.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: He probably also just didn't want anyone to kill themselves, which is an upstanding thing

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to do, given that she just tried to stab him with the knife that he trusted her to keep.

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, then, yeah, I think he does leave her as a Z just to honor her last wish.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me be like him.

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Let me be with him.

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And then at the end, Rick says to Herschel how that woman wound up.

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I got close to that if I lost Carl and Judas, if I lost this place.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And Herschel says, not then, not even then.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_01]: You came back.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Your boy came back.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You get to come back.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You do.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And one thing I really like about that is he mentions Carl.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Carl came back.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's something that they're indicating happened in that six month time jump,

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_01]: because last we saw Carl, he had just shot that kid and was like bragging about it and

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_01]: not liking that Rick was bringing people in from Woodbury.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But just speculation.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I presume that within that time he's come around and he's always modeling his dad.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe he respected that his dad had a change of heart and he had a change of heart too.

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if I remember right, that whole psycho aspect of Carl is gone from now on, which

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm relieved by, if that's true.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_01]: He's over it.

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's now a compassionate person.

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_03]: He kind of goes crazy after Glenn and Abraham died.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And then he wants to go into the sanctuary to kill Negan.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_03]: And then all of a sudden he flips again.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah.

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Flip flop.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_01]: See, it happens to all of them.

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_01]: But then, you know, just thinking about it, can you come back?

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think after all is said and done, that's it's a major theme of the show.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And after all said and done, I think the show is saying you can't come back.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Rick did.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Carl did.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Michonne.

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Eugene, I would say.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Aaron.

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And Daryl.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Except now he's he's like stabbing people gleefully in the Daryl show sometimes.

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's more about the writing than anything about commenting on this theme.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that theme is so worn.

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I got so sick of it.

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But even at this point, I think I was starting to maybe get tired of it.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember for sure.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe that's another reason not to like this little story arc.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to decide if I even though it made me feel uncomfortable and I was annoyed at the character, this woman, Clara, whether I think it was a good story element.

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And it might be a little superfluous or something, you know?

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it is superfluous because she I think what bothers me about this segment is that she literally like states the themes.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Can you come back?

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Herschel doubles back.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_01]: The third question.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Why did you kill people?

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And she says, because you can't come back.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I was already thinking that.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I hate when I'm already thinking something and the character says it.

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, you think I'm not smart enough to figure this out?

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Except I'm not smart enough to figure out when Rick says to her, if you try anything, you'll be the one who loses.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And then she says, I don't have anything to lose.

[00:56:05] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Rick says, no, you do.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You do.

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Was he talking about like both her physical life and her humanity or?

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought he meant your life.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm going to kill you if you fuck with me.

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But like.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_03]: OK, if she tries to kill Rick, he'll kill her and take her physical life.

[00:56:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But if she's successful in killing Rick, she'll lose her humanity.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Too.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And also, I guess.

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you want to look at it on a deeper level, I think he could have meant that, which kind of goes along with him being sad that he that she killed herself, because if he still thinks she has humanity left to lose or even the opportunity to come back from it, you know, that would be a loss.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Then then that that could be what he meant.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can still come back from this.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Saying you have something to lose is another way of saying you can come back from this if you do the right thing right now.

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I think you're both missing that she's also holding his sandwich.

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So you could lose that.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that would be a good sandwich.

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_05]: A major tragedy.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing like a good sandwich.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Truly.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Truly.

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the major theme of the show.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the major theme.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's next?

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Me.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: No, I spoke about how I didn't like the Irish lady.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think I went on long enough.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Karen, do you have any more points?

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I do have a point.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to try to keep it short, but it's kind of long.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: So, since we opened with Rick as a farmer, it made me – and Herschel also says to Rick, you're growing us enough food so we won't need to do runs anymore.

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Runs.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_03]: We won't have to go out to do runs soon.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: It reminded me of Jared Diamond's book, Guns, Germs, and Steel.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Have you guys read it or heard of it?

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Good title.

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_03]: The Germs Mark II also relates to this episode.

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_03]: But it basically is a book about why some settlements thrived towards civilization and why some did not.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And why some societies advanced quickly with technology and goods and quality of life while others didn't.

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And Diamond's thesis is basically where farming emerged a relatively advanced civilization followed.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_03]: So, hunter-gatherers don't actually produce as much food needed for caloric satisfaction as farmers do.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that why – is that the farmer's big ass comment?

[00:58:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that –

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_01]: It related – that's what we're talking about?

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: You know when –

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_03]: When Herschel says that to Rick.

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Herschel said, yeah, you need overalls, a piece of hay or whatever, and a big ass.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But before he says that, he tells Rick, you're growing us enough food so we won't have to go and run soon.

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't understand why it was stereotypical for a farmer to have a big ass.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe it's because there's plenty of food.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a constant food source, which is the thesis of this book.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's theoretical, not empirical.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So, farmers were able to leave the nomadic life and domesticate things like grain and build silos to keep them safe from moisture, from bugs, from other animals.

[00:59:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And they brought their goods and foods back to a centralized camp.

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: So, it's kind of like Daryl going on runs and scavenging and bringing stuff back.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And larger civilizations thrived because they were adopting these techniques.

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And the inequalities of the world were born from the different crops that we eat.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_03]: So, what kind of crops were farmed matters.

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Some seeds and plants offer different nutrition.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And the sowing and harvesting cycles are different.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So, some plants had diminishing returns, right?

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not worth it to plant some crops because caloric expenditure there.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it doesn't give enough calories as it takes when you plant them.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So, later on in season six, we see Maggie talking with Gregory about Alexandria's tomatoes and cucumbers, which are pretty calorically insufficient, versus all the flora and fauna that Hilltop had and was able to grow.

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think later on, Hilltop becomes the main farming community because…

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Hilltop's always the breadbasket, isn't it?

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's the breadbasket.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So, when they're trading, Hilltop's the one responsible for the food.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so…

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm almost done.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: No, this is great.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I love it.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And it leads to, um, with crops, like, man's relationship with animals and growing them as a meat source also makes a difference in whether or not some settlements flourished or some settlements, you know, dispersed and weren't able to survive.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Animal domestication was super important.

[01:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, because, uh, yeah.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's not just for meat, but for milk protein, for fur and hide, to make clothes and keep warm.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and pigs are actually not very good to have because they only give meat.

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: They can't, but they're not like…

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Some animals are like force multipliers where they can carry heavy loads and plow the land and be used for transportation.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: As we see later on, they have horses in, um, in Hilltop and Alexandria, right?

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And also in the kingdom.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_03]: They have horses to help them rebuild.

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and, uh, yeah.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So pigs are actually that ideal to domesticate.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And Shiva was not very ideal to have either because it's hard to domesticate carnivores and also like just to keep them fed.

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It makes sense.

[01:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So these non-efficient things like tomatoes or pigs, do they become more prevalent when there's just so much, there's so many resources that resources are plenty and people can afford to spend them more on these luxuries kind of thing?

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's another indication that our survivors are progressing up, up the, uh, every time I come on the podcast, we mention Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned it a lot too.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: When you're not.

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: To, to progress upwards on the pyramid, um, it's better to be a settled farming community than it is to be nomadic, like the whisperers were nomadic, right?

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: So, um.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_01]: That's their ascetic, twisted ascetic philosophy.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the sanctuary, even like you couldn't grow anything at the sanctuary.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why Negan was a mobster and robbed other communities.

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a sandwich there too.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Dwight's.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, that's right.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: High point of the show.

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's fascinating.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Cause like where I grew up is a super big farming region of Scotland and reliance on any one thing can cost you dearly.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I remember in the nineties, there was an outbreak of foot and mouth disease that basically decimated the farming industry in that part of Scotland.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And like huge cattle herds were getting culled.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, people I knew whose parents were farmers.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_05]: They were like having to retrain as like late in life, like in their forties and fifties, having to retrain for jobs in industry that they'd never had before.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and then you go to other places like when I was in Iceland, I remember being surprised that like they eat so much lamb and sheep there, but that's because lamb and sheep can survive in the Icelandic wilderness.

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Like they don't need, um, a lot of the things that are lacking there.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so they can live in these amazing volcanic rugged places and just get on with it.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's interesting to think about.

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And I put that book immediately on my wishlist cause I want to read more about it.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_05]: The kinds of crops and things we have because yeah, even basic things like a pig, you can't, you don't get milk.

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Like things like a cow, they're tending to the land.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_05]: You're getting milk from them.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_05]: You can make cheese, you can do X, Y, and Z.

[01:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Made more sense.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Bird flu, chickens.

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: They could have chickens, but, um, lambs and cattle are easier to manage.

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like they're more, um, efficient because there is a social hierarchy within those animals.

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Cause they're heard.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: There's herd mentality with them.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So you only have to control one of them and then everybody else will follow the leader.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Versus pigs.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So they, when they're herding lambs and cattle, do they know who the alpha cow is?

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: The alpha kind of.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: They can like just control that one.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of.

[01:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Um.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Um.

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But pigs are all kind of independent.

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, as Lucy mentioned, I think, and, and what Jason just said, the harbinger of the

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: disease, like that is probably how the plague started in the prison.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think like, I think the, is that how black plague started too?

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was flies, but I don't know.

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, plague.

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how it starts, but it's definitely carried by rats.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_05]: By different animals.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And different animals.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So probably that's how it jumped from animals to humans.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Because there's an old saying or old kind of bit of trivia.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if it's true or not.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I read something that debunked this, but for a long time in Scotland, in the 16th

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and 17th century, we thought that plague was spread by, um, there was a correlation between

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: plague and witches and cats were associated with witches.

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: So cats would be culled.

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_05]: And as a result, the rat population boomed and the plague spread even more.

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, which is why you should never kill a cat.

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think someone debunked that and was like, actually it would have spread anyway.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But it was this interesting thing of like the assumption you make isn't always why.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You can shoot yourself in the foot actually.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Make it worse.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all fascinating.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen would love that too.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I know she would.

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, this is definitely, we'll need to tell her to listen to this episode.

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_03]: And that just goes along with, uh, I think we were saying like, if we have a, if we brought

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_03]: a baby, do we have to consult with the council?

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Because, um, I think if there were more dire straits as a, as a nomadic population, maybe like,

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's also maybe, no, that's not why Alpha was okay with giving up that baby.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She was just crazy.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_03]: But, um, yeah, I think they have plentiful, um, resources right now that they could, you

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: don't have to.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Be worried about bringing up.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Because Maggie could breastfeed.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't need to get formula.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: They just need to make sure Maggie had enough for herself.

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we see shades of that in season two when Laurie's getting extra rations and there's

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: a little bit of kind of sass about it in the group.

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: No one's really angry or anything, but, you know, like, Daryl makes a crack about little

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Shane being hungry and things like that.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:08:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, yeah, it's, it's something that we've seen play out on a micro scale before.

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting though, this idea, because yeah, you're not wrong to say that there is

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of a group interest now in whether or not a baby is, is brought into it.

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, maybe that's why it becomes so clear at Alexandria for Glenn and Maggie that they

[01:08:30] [SPEAKER_05]: can have a child because it is the most sustainable society that they've been in and it has children

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_05]: in it.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And there are children here too.

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Great children.

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Lizzie and Meika are awesome.

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_05]: If I met them, I would definitely want kids.

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Lizzie would be a reason not to have a kid around her.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Lizzie.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Should we move on?

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You ready?

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Why not?

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Lucy, you have any more?

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think the set piece in the supermarket is awesome.

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I don't have much more to say than that.

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it is the perfect tempo.

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Does that make sense?

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It starts.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The build up to it.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels like they're in control.

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Sasha's like, yeah, we put a boom box out there to draw them out.

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_05]: They're very casual.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Everything seems fine.

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And then in classic Walking Dead style, everything goes to shit.

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, the zombies on the roof is an amazing touch because you wouldn't think of that.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think as, as on ground level.

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit like the sickness.

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You think you have it all buttoned down and then, oh, there's some vector that you didn't

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: consider that's going to fuck it all up.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_05]: And one of the vectors of chaos here is Bob's addiction and his need to drink.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's something that's going to come back later in the season when they go out on a run for antibiotics.

[01:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: The clear lesson is if you're going to reach for a bottle, then just drink it.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't put it back on the shelf.

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's, that's my philosophy.

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Always give in to your impulses.

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Never, never be the better person.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't second guess yourself.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You can kill.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, don't second guess.

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Just drink it.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Um.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Just kidding by the way.

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean to trivialize alcoholism, but I did think it was kind of funny that what caused the accident was when he put the bottle back.

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, what kind of a lesson is that?

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is not a good moral lesson, folks.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I also laughed when Tyrese went back into Karen's cell and was like, I don't like it up there either.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, oh, Tyrese.

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, the bits that stand out to me from this are once everything's crashed in.

[01:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd forgotten, but it's lives in my head rent free.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: The intestine zombie who gets like tangled up in his own intestines when he falls through the roof.

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, oh.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so gross.

[01:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Zach's terrible death.

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Awful, awful, harrowing death.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think up to Noah, this was probably one of the worst sort of red shirt deaths that The Walking Dead has had.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: They did such a good job of making this character in very little screen time become so likable.

[01:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, I remember thinking Bob or Zach could die.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Because even though Bob was in the comic, you never know what they're going to do, right?

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is the perfect opportunity to remind us of the stakes by bringing in all these new characters, any of whom could be a red shirt.

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And it turned out to be Zach.

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't want Bob to die either, but I was bummed to lose this character right away because I liked him.

[01:11:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Bob is like kind of ruined for me.

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_05]: He's not really.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I love Lawrence Gilear Jr.

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_05]: But with the bad lip reading, the voice they give him where he's like, hey, like every time he talks, I'm like, oh yeah, he doesn't sound like that.

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, we see Zach gets bit.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's disgusting.

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone's really worked up.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone's like shooting left, right and center.

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_05]: And Bob kind of pulls a zombie's head apart, which is sick.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And they barely make it out.

[01:11:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And it is just, I love the way that it builds up.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_05]: And where, it reminded me a lot of the final season opener where they're doing a kind of almost Mission Impossible style lift down into an ex-army building to get some ready-made meals.

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: But this, I think, still feels quite grounded insofar as anything with zombies and it can feel grounded.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Like the way that it's done, the way that it's shot, the stakes that are there, it's brilliant.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So I really, really liked it.

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd forgotten it happened in this episode and I just thought it was brilliant.

[01:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: One reason why I loved it is because I feel like I have to suspend my disbelief a lot of times on this show that the zombies would be a threat when it seems like they could just run away.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And my favorite set pieces are when it's in an enclosed space, it's dark.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of places for the zombies to hide.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And especially in this case, they come just falling through the roof so you don't see them coming at all.

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It just worked really well.

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And I love the buildup and I especially loved, they go up to show the zombies on the roof and then they come back after commercial break and it's all calm and you're wondering, how could that impact anything?

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They're up on the roof and then you see Michonne see this zombie standee and get this look on her face like, wow, fuck that and chop it in half.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love that.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It's all well done.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have any notes on this except for, like you guys said, I love the buildup to it, how it's like all silent.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's, it's wordless and it's just, I remember my journalism professor always said action reveals character.

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, just Michonne smashing that cardboard monster thing was like really funny.

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_03]: But, and she's getting like a lot of lighthearted moments in this episode too, which is nice.

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It's that false sense of security, isn't it?

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Like everyone's, they're not arrogant.

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_05]: They're not, they're just like, yeah, we got this.

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's cool.

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_05]: We can jump around and then it's like, no, you can't.

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I always love when Walking Dead does dialogue free sequences.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, like the first episode of season three, which is a real standout, but I hadn't thought about this one as being one too, but you're right.

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You're so right.

[01:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Just a little bit.

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And then, yeah, we see that like Bob's is like the literal or Bob is a manifestation of the past coming back to haunt him kind of thing.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And he's an army vet, right?

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So seeing like all the maimed walkers, like probably triggered his PTSD even more.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's a bit where he's staring at a kind of zombie that's been cut in half.

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And at first I thought this was foreshadowing a tainted maid, but I think it is, we're dealing with this kind of military background that he has.

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_05]: And I just, I'm excited to see Bob again.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, me too.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_05]: The only character I ever have is like my top characters, but I just think for the time he's with us, he's really engaging and just a fantastic actor.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: He's unique to me.

[01:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember him being interested, having an interesting philosophy in his relationship with Sasha.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember what it was now though, but I remember being interested in it.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking forward to rediscovering that when we get to that point.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I remember really coming to like that character a lot.

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Did he do many cons, Jason?

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Because he was quite a big, yeah.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: He did.

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And he was really great with the fans.

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And at one point, I did my own kind of little sub event the night before the convention where my friend, the fire spinner came because it was here in San Francisco and it was called the barbecue.

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And we hired food trucks to come in with barbecue, you know, because it was after the whole tainted meat thing.

[01:15:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I really wanted to get Lawrence Gilliard to come and be interviewed for it, but he declined, which was a bummer.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I mean, can you blame him being nervous?

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I know.

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It was really fun though.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, he, he was always super great to the fans and at the conventions and a really nice guy.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I'm really glad to hear that.

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: My turn.

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's have story time.

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Once upon a time.

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just kidding.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's this whole thing with Carol and the story time.

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I love the arc because another way that this episode was great is they kept referring to story time and it felt like, oh, that little quaint little thing with the kids.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And Carl doesn't even want to go because he feels like it's too much of a kid thing for him, which fits with this character.

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: He always wants to be an adult.

[01:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we finally see it happening and she's reading Tom Sawyer to them, which I think is kind of appropriate because Tom Sawyer is so independent.

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And she's, it turns out trying to teach them to care for themselves.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the adult in the room leaves and she immediately pulls out a box of knives.

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we're talking about knives, how to use them, how to be safe with them and how they could save your life.

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Today, we're going to learn how to hold a knife, how to stab and slash, where to aim for.

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just think it's so twistedly funny and also very Carol.

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a crucial development in the story of Carol.

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the first time she made a kind of questionable and dark decision like this, but that becomes a core trait for her where she presents as a stereotypical, unassuming, nurturing, motherly type here with story time later with like baked goods and stuff.

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's at least in part a mask and underneath she's cunning and fierce and pragmatic.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And also, like I said, questionable, like I think her heart is in the right place.

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: She's shaped by the loss of Sophia who wasn't prepared for her encounter with a zombie.

[01:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: She doesn't want these kids to also not be prepared, but she should probably talk it over with the adults first and the parents.

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they wouldn't mind their kids having some kind of a zombie preparedness course, you know, maybe it would have to do with weapons.

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But to do it all of this without consulting the other adults, I think is wrong.

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: I you guys brought up bad lip reading.

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: All I could think of during that exchange between Carol and Carol was I'm a cheesy bird.

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I see the zombies in this in this episode.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But there are some zombies who were in it.

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a picture one.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's one that walked up and I'm like, zombie in the wild.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, what do you do?

[01:18:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it was right or wrong for her to do it?

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was right.

[01:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: She should consult the parents.

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to do a classic Jason Lucy argument.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And no, I think she was right because those kids need to know that shit.

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: And parents, she knows from her own experience that parents trying to protect their children and shield them from things.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Run the risk of losing their children.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's though it's coming from a very hard place for her.

[01:19:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she's doing the right thing.

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I put my stake in the ground and I'm going to stand by it.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen.

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like universally agreed upon that children should grow shielded from the harshness of the world.

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And we want to reduce harm in all its states, physical and psychological for a child.

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I agree with Lucy.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The calculus has kind of changed and children need to be prepared for this kind of world.

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that.

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think that in this situation that most of the adults would also agree with that, that there's going to come a time when your kid will probably be faced with what to do in the face of a zombie.

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And so they need to be prepared with that.

[01:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Similar to how in the United States, our schools have shooter drills now, you know?

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that most adults would see that, okay, if I want to make sure my kid is safe, I'm going to teach, have to have them taught what to do when a zombie comes.

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not today's world where you can get through most of your life, or at least you could 10, 15 years ago in the United States without encountering any violence.

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So most parents would be against this kind of thing with their kids.

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the zombie apocalypse.

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that most adults would think differently about it.

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can respect, you know, we don't always have to agree, but I just want to say one more time, the idea of going and telling my kids something like this behind my back would so enrage me.

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I would be ready to get Carol kicked out of that group at that point if I found that she was doing that without my permission.

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what it brings up for me.

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm okay with it, but let's all talk about how we're going to raise our kids together.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you decide how my kids are going to be raised?

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: The question isn't whether or not the class should be taught.

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_03]: It's whether or not it should be taught in secrecy.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: But I understand the other side.

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what if she didn't even want to take the risk that people would say no?

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I'm surprised that Carol's a part of the council.

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_01]: When Herschel was like...

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, then she kills Karen and David without asking anyone too.

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's worse.

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with that.

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_05]: That's worse.

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_05]: The gun and knife training.

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_05]: But it's along the same lines.

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: It's along...

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It's the same impulse.

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But the homicide I'm going to go with worse than knife skills.

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, okay, I take the point.

[01:21:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you had, you know, anyone who's like, I know better than everyone else.

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to teach your children.

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to kill the people that needs to be killed.

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think Carol kind of benefits from this unassuming motherly facade that she puts up where more people will stand up for her.

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if it was like, I don't know, Daryl doing that, maybe people would stand up for that too, actually.

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They probably would.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think you're totally right.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why she uses her, you know, she manipulates people later on with the cardigan and dressing up.

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else?

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I've got some notes.

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think all I have is notes.

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen, do you have any other points?

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I had like an overarching or overarching point.

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Overarching.

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Tomato, tomato.

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: About like they bring about past, present and future.

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_03]: We already talked about the present and how everybody is growing.

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: But they bring up the past a lot in this episode too.

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: In terms of like bringing up Lori and Clara bringing up that she was stuck in the airport at Puerto Vallarta.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Talking about details of the old world, like the airport statues.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Zach guessing what Daryl did before the apocalypse.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that was interesting.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And Glenn and Maggie bring up Lori, which represents past fears that could seize them and stop them from building a future.

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_03]: But later on, we know that it doesn't stop them.

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: We already discussed about the present and how they're ascending Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: But the future is like table setting and foreshadowing a lot of things to come, which gives viewers the ability to anticipate or speculate what's going to happen.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And we see Michonne looking at a map of Macon, Macon, Georgia.

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Is that where the Telltale games take place?

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I think so.

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think that was like an Easter egg.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we know that the governor is still in play, even though he's absent from this episode.

[01:23:56] [SPEAKER_03]: His presence still looms pretty largely.

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_01]: The specter of him out there somewhere.

[01:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that Michonne, that's what she's doing during this time gap is out going on patrols looking for him.

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[01:24:10] [SPEAKER_03]: And this episode also foreshadows Bob and Sasha's relationship.

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: It foreshadows that the fences will eventually fall because they talked about clusters, like how they can't really, they're starting to cluster up.

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And then the thing with Lizzie naming the walkers, that's a foreshadowing.

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It's good table setting.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of setup.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Bob's alcoholism is teased.

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, Violet's sickness and Patrick dying is showing that the threat's going to come from within instead of being an external threat.

[01:24:44] Yeah.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was kind of interesting to have an episode with this woman, Clara, who kept her husband's zombie head in the same episode that introduced Lizzie, who's humanizing the zombies too.

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I wondered if they did that on purpose or if it was just a coincidence.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I thought about that too.

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And also naming Violet, like different naming, different things and keeping.

[01:25:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But that's it for me.

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Since it's Lizzie and Mika, Brighton Charbonneau is Lizzie and Kyla Kennedy is Mika.

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were a regular, like this is, this episode aired October 13th, 2013.

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And the first Walker Stalker Con was October 31st, Halloween weekend, 2013.

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're coming into this six year period of time where I was going to conventions a lot.

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And every time a new character appeared on the show, pretty soon after this, I was like, I'm probably going to meet them soon.

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a weird, interesting, cool, really cool, actually time period.

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But Lizzie and Mika, those two actresses were super cool, super engaged, really, really fun.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Mika in particular, Kyla Kennedy, her character is just this sweet little girl on the show.

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: But in real life, she has this really sharp wit.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And she would like throw insults that were really funny at the adults, you know.

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And this guy, Nick, who was part of our crew, he did a lot of the video stuff.

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: He did a little web series with her where she would like bring one of the other actors on and just sit there and insult them.

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Kyla's Corner or something like that.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was really funny.

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And it was so weird to see that side of her personality when you're used to seeing her character on the show.

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, they were great.

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember, I'll maybe talk about this a little bit more when it comes, but they were both there for Walker Stucker weekend when The Grove aired.

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we went through a whole weekend of convention with them where they were totally tight lipped, didn't give away anything that was about to happen.

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then that Sunday night, we all watched The Grove together, not those two, but all of us and thinking, man, that must have been hard for them to not be able to talk about it or anything.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm so excited to get to The Grove again.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Although that sounds very bleak.

[01:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a group of really good, solid episodes in the second half of the season.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: There really is.

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_05]: It compensates for the governor.

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And like I said before, there's two governor episodes coming up where a lot of people did not like those.

[01:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And two people, two listeners asked me if they could come and be guests for those because they do like those episodes.

[01:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Nathan Eshelman and Rebecca Louise.

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was glad for that because it'll be interesting to get their perspective on it.

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Definitely.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Where the time comes.

[01:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Lucy?

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Cat Notes?

[01:27:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So not much.

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: The Hyundai lives.

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_05]: We saw the Hyundai in this episode.

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, happy.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy that that didn't get lost.

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Still sponsored.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: If you would have asked me when we started this rewatch, how long is the Hyundai in it?

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I would have said till the end of season two.

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm shocked.

[01:28:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's what I thought too.

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Karen's got Pookie watch.

[01:28:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I've got Hyundai watch.

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_05]: The actual fall of the prison isn't sad because of the prison.

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It's sad because they never see the Hyundai again.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I like Beth more in this episode because she's very chill.

[01:28:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And I like this idea of I don't cry anymore, Daryl.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_05]: The strength that she's found I think is very nice.

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And Beth hugging Daryl really interested me because Daryl is so frozen and so unused to physical affection.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just a nice character beat that it never puts her off.

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Like it never makes Beth is always physically affectionate with people in a way that it doesn't really matter to her whether or not they are responsive.

[01:28:54] [SPEAKER_05]: She gives this affection quite freely.

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And I quite like that about her.

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: She later also seems to be pretty clearly crushing on him.

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder if that's started now or not.

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe not.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_05]: My boyfriend died.

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's sad.

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd like a hug.

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I need a hug.

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I think there are.

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_05]: There is a strong Bethel shipping out there.

[01:29:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, I think this is some good fodder here, particularly when he says it's like a damn romance movie or something.

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: When they get to the episode where they drink moonshine and play Never Have I Ever, we're totally going to do that as part of our Patreon group.

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Join Patreon.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You can be a part of that.

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Woohoo.

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else?

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Karen, you have any more?

[01:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I was just going to say that Carrie Condon, we already said she's in Better Call Saul, but she was also great in the Oscar nominated film Banshees of In Sheeran.

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_03]: And she also got nominated for that for Best Actress or Best Supporting.

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she was really good in that.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, because she's done a lot with Martin McDonough, who is Phoebe Waller-Bridge's partner.

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Random fact.

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: The two of them are an item.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Didn't know that.

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, me neither until recently.

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Then I was like, oh, that's a lot of talent for like one partnership.

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't seem fair.

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you and Peter.

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Aw, thanks.

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's true.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: IMDb.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_05]: IMDb dive.

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's have a little look.

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Six weeks before shooting began, fruits and vegetables were planted to turn the prison yard into a farm yard.

[01:30:41] [SPEAKER_05]: The work was nearly ruined when a herd of deer got in and fed on the crops.

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_05]: This next one makes me really want to go and listen to the audio commentaries, which I haven't actually done for a lot of The Walking Dead.

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_05]: The pigs escaped during shooting and Andrew Lincoln immediately ran after them to round them up.

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That's method.

[01:31:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And the thing with the deer is that the deer came in and ate all the crops, so they had to do CGI crops.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why they did CGI deer for the rest of the series.

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Not many people know that.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_05]: It was a CGI deer that came in.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_05]: The big spot discount store in this episode does not exist in real life.

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_05]: However, the fictional store is based on the actual discount store Koonsbeg K, which was a large discount store chain in the southeastern US that merged with Walmart in 1981.

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It once comprised 119 stores.

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: The book Carol reads at story time as Tom Sawyer.

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: This book is mentioned again later in season four, The Grove.

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: In the scene, Mika describes herself as Tom Sawyer, Lizzie as Huck Finn and Carol as the Widow Douglas.

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_05]: From this episode until episode 410 inmates, Judith Grimes is portrayed by Aniston Price and Tinsley Price, who replaced the previous twins, Loudon and Leighton Case.

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They are 35 now.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: They are.

[01:32:04] [SPEAKER_05]: They are now in their 30s.

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_05]: This was the third lowest rated season premiere episode of the series.

[01:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was the second season premiere episode to feature days in the title after days gone by.

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_05]: To your point about Macon or Macon, I'm not sure how to say it.

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Macon.

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Soon after Michonne returns on horseback with the comic books for Carl, she tells Daryl I didn't find him and then says she's going to look near Macon.

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Daryl replies by saying 70 miles of walkers.

[01:32:34] [SPEAKER_05]: The city of Macon is about 85 miles south of Atlanta from downtown to downtown of each city.

[01:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Think Macon.

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Macon.

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There you go.

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Later on, after they return from the run and she's looking at the map, you can see that it shows Macon County as indicated by the names of the surrounding towns, which is approximately 50 miles south and west of the city of Macon.

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what all that means, but there's a lot of Macon.

[01:32:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Macon, Macon, Macon.

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: This episode features the deaths of Patrick and Zach and spoiler alert, Maggie does eventually become pregnant in season six.

[01:33:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I did not know.

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I did know that.

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And the kid grows up to be, I guess we'll find out.

[01:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: The jury's out.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Jury's out.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Jury's out.

[01:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: In Dead City coming this spring.

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We may be doing Last of Us and Dead City at the same time.

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, is Last of Us that soon?

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's spring.

[01:33:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Holy moly.

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think April is when it's going to be starting.

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I am excited.

[01:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I started replaying part two of the game just so I can be good in our game segment.

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Game.

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you call it?

[01:33:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Game talk segments.

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Excellent.

[01:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Only in The Walking Dead would dying of a sickness be the first day of the rest of your life.

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Only on The Walking Dead do you have walker decorations from the ceiling, like in your shopping store.

[01:34:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Unless it's Halloween.

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_05]: The Walking Dead would your honeymoon end with a sandwich Andrew Lincoln and a bit of human Harry Caray.

[01:34:18] [SPEAKER_01]: All the elements that you need.

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Old MacDonald had a fun.

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_01]: E-I-E-I-O.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Fun.

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Had some living dead.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_01]: E-I-E-I-O.

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: With a...

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Infected News.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right now in the United States at least, you can watch all of The Walking Dead and The Daryl Show on Netflix.

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, Fear the Walking Dead if you would so choose to subject yourself to that.

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so mean.

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Starting on January 13th, you will also be able to see Dead City and The Ones Who Live on there.

[01:35:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, nice.

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So, only Tales of the Walking Dead and World Beyond won't be on Netflix, which is kind of a shame because I'm pretty partial to both those shows.

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: In the UK, I guess they're on Sky and now TV.

[01:35:32] [SPEAKER_05]: No, they're now on Disney Plus as well.

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Or instead of...

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess in other countries, Netflix availability varies by country.

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess you'll have to look that up.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_01]: On a panel at Comic Con, at Comic Convention CCXP, Robert Kirkman said some interesting things.

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_01]: He revealed a few things about how the series got started that I haven't quite heard before.

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: He talked about how crucial Frank Darabont was to getting the show made.

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, the honest truth is that Frank Darabont got The Walking Dead made.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: If Frank Darabont doesn't go into House of Secrets, a comic book store in Burbank, and somebody recommends him a Walking Dead comic, I'm not sitting here right now.

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I guess he got recommended the comic, wanted to do the show on it.

[01:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what got it going.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Amazing.

[01:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He said Kirkman never felt pressure to shift the storyline for the show.

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: He said, I was able to avoid that because Walking Dead was a very desired project, and there was kind of a bidding war between HBO and AMC that was happening.

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And because of that bidding war, AMC and HBO kind of got into a competition of, we'll give Robert this.

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: No, we'll give Robert this.

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: No, we'll give Robert this.

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_01]: No, we'll give Robert this.

[01:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And we just kept going.

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, HBO gave us this, and then AMC would go, all right.

[01:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And then to HBO, we'd be like, AMC gave us this, and HBO would go, all right.

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kept getting more access, more control, more involved in the project until I was in the writer's room.

[01:37:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I was full EP, executive producer.

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I was with everybody making casting decisions.

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I was fortunate that those two places wanted it.

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And if I hadn't had that, one of those two places probably would have been like, I don't think we need this guy from Kentucky who's never written television before.

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we'll just go with the Oscar-winning director.

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Being in my own head and knowing what I know about The Walking Dead, I was the guy that knew the most.

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I was pretty valuable in that room.

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like I understand from their perspective how crazy the creators and authors and people seem.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I can see their perspective.

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, if any executives are out there watching Walking Dead was a pretty popular show.

[01:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And I cannot tell you how many times I was in a production meeting or a casting meeting or sitting in the writer's room going, I did this in the comic.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: This is how the audience reacted.

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_01]: If we do this in the show, this is how people react.

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And that stuff was very valuable.

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say there is a tremendous value to keeping the original authors and creators involved in every step of the way.

[01:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love that.

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's so right on.

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_05]: That's amazing.

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've read that NBC and even HBO were interested but wanted to make the show less violent.

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And NBC actually said, does it have to have zombies?

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, man.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't know until today that HBO also wanted to make it less violent, which actually kind of surprises me.

[01:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad.

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they learned from that, didn't they?

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly with The Last of Us, they got full bore.

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I read over my holidays.

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to call it a trashy romance novel because I really enjoyed it.

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't think it was trashy.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Or whatever.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: It's a different show in the books.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, it's not specifically Game of Thrones.

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_05]: What would happen if one of the actors from the show was writing fan fiction to redirect their rage at the showrunners?

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: And what if they then fell in love with another fan fiction writer?

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And then what happens after that?

[01:39:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was very, very good.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was called Spoiler Alert by Olivia Dade.

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_05]: And it was great.

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_05]: It was really, really fun and spicy and nice.

[01:39:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, that just makes me think of that, to be honest.

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: That's awesome.

[01:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really read romance, but it makes me want to read that one.

[01:39:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm going to check the title.

[01:39:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's Spoiler Alert because there's a few in the series.

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's Spoiler Alert.

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: It's great.

[01:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: That's really cool.

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So, they're doing this whole Walking Dead Deluxe where Kirkman answers questions or comments about things in the back matter.

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And issue 103 came out recently.

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He had some interesting things to say about Negan.

[01:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: He said,

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Post issue 72, which was the last issue to ship out before the TV show came out, I was fighting the, are you writing this so it can appear in the TV show feeling constantly.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So, the ideas got bigger and crazier, which led to all kinds of cool stuff.

[01:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I have to admit, in the back of my mind, I was probably thinking they'll never be able to put this foul-mouthed lunatic in the show.

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That has to be some element of Negan coming into being.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And little did I know, eventually, the amazing Jeffrey Dean Morgan would be bringing him to life in a way that would enhance the character to new, loftier heights.

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And I know Kirkman said the same or similar about Ezekiel and Shiva, that he put them in specifically because he wanted to prove to himself that he wasn't writing for the show because he thought they'll never put a tiger in the show.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, but that kind of shows that the show actually did influence the comic in a way because it forced him to make it more outlandish.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Or convinced him to or whatever, pushed him to.

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Last thing, second to last thing, there's a John Wick spinoff coming out this summer called From the World of John Wick Ballerina.

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And Norman Reedus is in it, which is why I'm mentioning it.

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: He's in a supporting role.

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The premise is taking place between the events of Chapter 3, Parabellum, and Chapter 4, Eve Macaro.

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_01]: A ballerina assassin begins to train in the assassin traditions of the Ruska Roma and sets out to exact revenge for her father's death.

[01:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Reedus plays Daniel Pine, a mysterious man.

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_01]: That's all it says.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And at this same comic convention, he talked about the fighting styles of this John Wick movie ballerina with the Daryl show.

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_01]: He said it's a different fighting style.

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Totally.

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The Walking Dead's very sloppy.

[01:41:38] [SPEAKER_01]: This is very choreographed.

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people put it together to make it safe and look spectacular.

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Which if I was a Walking Dead person, I might be saying, so you're saying we're sloppy and unsafe and doesn't look spectacular.

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I have a piece of news.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not that exciting.

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Today, what's up?

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, you know, I'm just feeling fine.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_05]: No.

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_05]: This morning on YouTube, I saw a trailer for Kristen Stewart and Steven Yeun's upcoming film, Love Me, which is out at the end of January.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Karen, I think you told me about this film last year and I buried it in my consciousness and remembered it when I saw the trailer today.

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So the film stars Kristen Stewart and Steven Yeun as two apparent vloggers who have left behind one hell of a digital footprint in the aftermath of some earth shattering humanity ending disaster.

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_05]: The concept is that I'm going to say this wrong.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_05]: A buoy.

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say a boy.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's wrong.

[01:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: A buoy who's played by Kristen Stewart seeks to find out more about the history of humanity via Google.

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And she means an actual buoy.

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's in the ocean, but it's this technological thing.

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:42:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep.

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And shares communication with a satellite played by Steven Yeun.

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm getting this from the AV club, by the way.

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And their consciousness is have a relationship and the mechanical objects fall in love as the pair recognize each other.

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So I'm excited for that.

[01:43:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I like Steven Yeun's choices in what he does and what he performs.

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And so I'm really looking forward to that.

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I think Jason and I were talking about it earlier this week, too.

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it actually got a lot of critical panning at Sundance because I think the concept is really hard to grasp.

[01:43:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like this big existential metaphorical thing.

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: But that's my catnip, too.

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I kind of want to.

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the trailer makes it look really good and really interesting.

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought so.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I don't know.

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It makes me want to watch it.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe it's just too weird for people because all humans are gone and it's two robots having a relationship.

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But it looked really fascinating to me.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we should cover it.

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If it's good.

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: If it's just really bad, I don't know.

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll see.

[01:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: But if it's good, yeah, that'd be awesome.

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_01]: All three of us could, for sure.

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That would be fun.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I would be interested if it's good.

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Or if it's bad and you two want to, that's fine.

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Or I'll get my car to fill in for me or another head-filled object with those on the beach.

[01:44:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Alexa and Siri can.

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Alexa and Siri.

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: The film was good.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_03]: The last thing I'll say about that is I think I'm just excited to see both Kristen Stewart and Steven Yeun

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: because they both started in such heavy franchised shows or material.

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_03]: And so they were both able to break away from Glenn and from Bella.

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: From Twilight.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Steven Yeun.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we covered Minari, right?

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's doing that new Bong Joon-ho movie, which I hope is good.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just done such interesting things.

[01:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But he also did, like, he's doing Invincible.

[01:44:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He's the voice of the main character.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's so good.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And even he does the Transformer.

[01:44:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Voltron.

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Voltron cartoon.

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So he's not just fully gone into the whole, like, indie thing.

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: He's done a wide range of interesting things.

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Last thing, I mentioned it earlier, but The Last of Us Season 2 is coming within a few months here.

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's going to be April.

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: They said spring, but they have to do a certain amount of episodes before May 30th in order to be eligible for Emmys, which they said they wanted to.

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's going to be April.

[01:45:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I started replaying part two of the game in preparation.

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so glad I did because just getting back into it, I'm like two or three hours in.

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just getting so excited for the series.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sorry.

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You said Emmys.

[01:45:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It just made me think of one more thing.

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't watch Fear the Walking Dead, but Coleman Domingo is nominated for his role in Sing Sing.

[01:45:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, is he?

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:45:53] [SPEAKER_03]: He's and they said he's probably going to take it.

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So he's been nominated for Golden Globes today, I think.

[01:46:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, if people are interested, I've heard great things about Sing Sing, the film.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So please seek that out.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to definitely watch that.

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_03]: It's coming back in theaters January 17th.

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard buzz about that, too.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And he just did the voice in something.

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to look it up here.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's going to be Norman, not Reedus.

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Who's the bad guy?

[01:46:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The Green Goblin.

[01:46:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Osborne.

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Norman Osborne.

[01:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: In the new friendly neighborhood Spider-Man TV series that's coming to Disney Plus.

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: The Emmy thing is way more interesting, but I'm just glad to see him go on to do such great

[01:46:51] [SPEAKER_01]: things because he's so good and he deserves to have these great roles, you know, and get

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_01]: more exposure and all that.

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_05]: He's incredible.

[01:46:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:46:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[01:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on to listener moans, groans, and grunts.

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: All right.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So Daniel Dementro says, season four is fantastic.

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Brad Holt says, excited to be back to the rewatch.

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_05]: You and me both, Brad.

[01:47:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't revisited season four in so long.

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Really looking forward to this.

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Directed by Greg Nicotero and written by Scott Gimple, this premiere episode does an excellent

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_05]: job of setting up, teasing the various story arcs we get in season four.

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_05]: The outbreak, the exile, the fall of the prison, the road stories.

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go.

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go.

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Brad.

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's like the tagline, the outbreak, the exile, the fall of the prison.

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's awesome.

[01:47:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, yeah.

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited for this point in the rewatch.

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're coming into parts of The Walking Dead that I like better than anything we've

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_01]: seen yet.

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm in the minority there.

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: People like the first couple seasons, but I'm so excited about four and five.

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, Nathan Eshelman says, I totally forgot Kyle Garner was in this episode.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_01]: He played Beth's boyfriend.

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: He's had a great career in horror being in the scream nightmare on Elm street and smile

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: franchises.

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: He was also in strange darling.

[01:48:16] [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite movie last year.

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know.

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I love Kyle Garner.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's fun to look back on these one-off characters.

[01:48:25] [SPEAKER_01]: You forgot we're in the show and realizing how much more stuff they've been in over the

[01:48:29] [SPEAKER_01]: past 10 years.

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of great character moments in this episode, even without dialogue or exposition.

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_01]: As you said, Karen, you can tell Bob struggles with alcoholism just by the way he shamefully

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_01]: contemplates taking a bottle.

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely hiding it in his jacket and then putting it back.

[01:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Lauren Skillier Jr. tells the story just with his movements.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I really have to watch the wire.

[01:48:50] [SPEAKER_03]: All these people coming from the wire.

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[01:48:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Chandra Wright says, I can't remember.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this the first time we hear the vetting three questions asked?

[01:49:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: We've answered?

[01:49:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Nope.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And she goes on.

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I recall there was some discussion on the original watch of the value of those three

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: questions.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_03]: How many walkers?

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: How many people?

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: And why?

[01:49:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I think as well as any interview questions, Ken, this set quickly tries to uncover the

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: core of who a person is.

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_03]: If the walker kill count is unusually low, that tells you that the person has been behind

[01:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: walls or otherwise protected.

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It may not be much of a fighter.

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_03]: They could be a liability to watch.

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_03]: If the human kill count is high or low, that's also revealing, but it's the why where the

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_03]: most interesting information is uncovered.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I interview people as a part of my job and the stats that people share versus the information

[01:49:44] [SPEAKER_03]: learned through a couple of strategically placed open-ended questions can be really different.

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_03]: You can start to tell if they are BSing you or being modest and if they're primarily focused

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_03]: on self or capable of playing well with others.

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I like the three questions and the answers given by the lady in the woods really

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_03]: helped humanize her for me.

[01:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Looking forward to continuing the rewatch.

[01:50:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy New Year, everyone.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Happy New Year.

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that where you're asking open-ended questions and looking for those different kinds of things

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that might not really be that apparent in the question itself.

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, Chandra, I'd love to know what some of those questions are and if maybe I can repurpose

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_01]: them if I ever get around to interviewing more actors again.

[01:50:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I always love when we can get them to talk off script and not just go through things that

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: they say all the time.

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It makes me think of the scene in Parks and Recreation where one of the characters who's

[01:50:47] [SPEAKER_05]: very, very nervous about being on TV goes on a talk show, actually hosted by Joan Calamezzo

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_05]: who turned up in Fear the Walking Dead and she asks one question and he goes on a 10-minute

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_05]: sweaty rant that ends with him being like, who doesn't have gay thoughts sometimes?

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_05]: The question's just been really banal and they changed the caption to Ben Wyatt, human

[01:51:12] [SPEAKER_05]: disaster.

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I hope Chandra's had some entertaining experiences like that.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Josie Bowen Ektol says, oh, sweet Beth.

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I love seeing her on our screens again and I loved how she asked Daryl if Daryl was okay

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_05]: too.

[01:51:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Such a special friendship that blossoms there eventually.

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I've had nightmares about the lady with the accent, I'll be honest.

[01:51:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I hope you mean the Irish lady and not me, Josie, but I'll leave that one out.

[01:51:38] [SPEAKER_05]: This is one of those episodes that's just sort of haunting.

[01:51:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Everything from Lizzie, the pig, the crazy lady.

[01:51:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I love seeing the group thrive with all their farming and how united they all feel.

[01:51:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I do think it's odd that they eventually share that Rick was raised on a farm and the ones

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_05]: who live, especially now looking at this episode and seeing Farmer Rick in action.

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, that bothered me too, Josie.

[01:51:58] [SPEAKER_05]: It certainly seems that wasn't the backstory from the get-go.

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I know, I know.

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, she's saying that because he doesn't already know how to do it because Herschel's

[01:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: having to teach him?

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:52:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I know, I know minor details, but it bothers me.

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Also kind of shocking they didn't hear the walkers and whatnot on the roof, but I do

[01:52:13] [SPEAKER_05]: like how it all plays out.

[01:52:15] [SPEAKER_05]: So intense.

[01:52:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't remember if they ever go back there, but what a good store to loot.

[01:52:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Shout out to Carol for teaching survival skills.

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_05]: What an icon.

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I love Herschel in this episode too.

[01:52:24] [SPEAKER_05]: So wise and insightful.

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Excited we're all back.

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Can't wait to keep hearing coverage.

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_05]: So I have a convoluted mental gymnastics about how we can make both things be true.

[01:52:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, Rick mentions that he has a brother.

[01:52:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and I think that's canon in the comics as well.

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_05]: In some farming families, I believe the oldest son is taught about the farm in order to be

[01:52:51] [SPEAKER_05]: given it.

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And the other kids are expected to go and find other careers.

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_05]: So maybe that happened.

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_05]: But I also agree with Josie that it's just kind of bollocks.

[01:53:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, my stepdad was a mechanic and I didn't like him and I don't know anything about cars.

[01:53:07] [SPEAKER_05]: There you go.

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_05]: We made it make sense.

[01:53:09] [SPEAKER_05]: We made it make sense.

[01:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Claire Rederer says, I'm also rewatching.

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it my turn?

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's my turn, right?

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Rewatching Better Call Saul at the moment.

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was happy to see Carrie Condon, Stacey Ehrmantrout, who plays Clara in this episode.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The Walking Dead is so good at giving us an array of an eccentric and haunting guest

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_01]: characters.

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Too bad they almost always kill them right away.

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_01]: This was the first episode where it seems that the group really has their footing.

[01:53:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Even though it's short-lived, it's nice to see that they can have peace, community, and

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: synergy.

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is the most attractive that the prison ever was and ever will be, is this

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_01]: episode, I think.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_01]: The prison felt like an actual home, unlike in season three, where it still felt like a

[01:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: place they were just surviving.

[01:53:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I especially love seeing how the characters are coming into their own.

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't really been able to do that since the beginning of the show, as every decision

[01:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and move has been about survival.

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's another thing that's interesting about this episode.

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It really feels like the first time where they're able to just go up the Maslow's hierarchy

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit because they're not in danger.

[01:54:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I've loved learning about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and The Walking Dead throughout its

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_01]: 11 seasons has always been a fascinating job of illustrating this.

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It's good to see them attempt to climb the pyramid, even though we know they're going to fall

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to the bottom again by the mid-season finale.

[01:54:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Season four in general has some of the best episodes of the show's run.

[01:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Episodes five, eight, nine, 11, 14, and 16.

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll take your word for it.

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Love that.

[01:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Love that specificity.

[01:54:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very excited to start the rewatch again.

[01:54:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Happy, healthy, and blessed 2025, friends, and don't get bit.

[01:54:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Claire.

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Claire.

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Love you.

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Billy Thompson says,

[01:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, hello.

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you all had a great holiday and new year.

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Season four, let's go.

[01:54:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, Carl looks a lot older from last season.

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It's great seeing them all age again through the rewatch.

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I love where Carol and Daryl's relationship is in the episode.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_03]: All the joking and teasing, it's brilliant.

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, yes, Bob.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Probably one of the most realistic characters in TWD.

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't mean that he doesn't annoy the shit out of me.

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_03]: I love how in the earlier seasons, we always get a kind of introduction to the characters again.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Just how they are portrayed in the first episode of a new season.

[01:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: For example, Michonne looking all badass, riding in the horse,

[01:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and Daryl being loved by everybody but not knowing how to deal with it.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[01:55:35] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of jokes in the episode too.

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember finding it so funny first time around.

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Michonne mentions looking for the governor near Macon, which we get to see in the Telltale series,

[01:55:47] [SPEAKER_03]: but would have also been cool to see on our TVs.

[01:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe an episode similar to Clear where Michonne and Glenn go off to look for the governor there.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Seeing it was Glenn's hometown in the Telltale series.

[01:55:58] [SPEAKER_03]: They could have tried to link him with it somehow.

[01:56:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I have just checked the wiki and it says Michigan is Glenn's hometown in the TV series.

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But still would have been cool to see a slight reference to the comics and Telltale series.

[01:56:16] [SPEAKER_03]: OMG, I totally forgot about the scene of the walkers falling through the roof of the shop and the walker hanging by its guts.

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It has to be one of my favorites.

[01:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Overall, such a good episode to kick off season four.

[01:56:28] [SPEAKER_03]: It gets me so excited for the rewatch.

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks guys.

[01:56:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[01:56:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, thanks, Billy.

[01:56:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks, Billy.

[01:56:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Rachel Teal Edwards says,

[01:56:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy New Year, Zed friends.

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy New Year, Rachel.

[01:56:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I can think of no better way to start 2025 off right than getting back to this Walking Dead rewatch at the beginning of season four.

[01:56:48] [SPEAKER_05]: This makes me so happy.

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_05]: This is such a good episode.

[01:56:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, the more I think about it, the better it gets.

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_05]: On the surface, things seem peaceful and optimistic for our crew.

[01:56:58] [SPEAKER_05]: The prison is running like a well-oiled machine.

[01:57:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone has a job to do and is doing it well.

[01:57:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Daryl Dixon is the coolest dude alive.

[01:57:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Rick is a stable, lighthearted farmer.

[01:57:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Romance is in the air.

[01:57:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone has witty banter with each other.

[01:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's a deep sense of unease lingering below the surface.

[01:57:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We find out that Rick is traumatized to the point of being fully avoidant of any hint of his past self.

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Michonne's obsessed with finding a needle in a haystack.

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Carol has started her secret-keeping behavior.

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And Bob has some active demons of his own.

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Knowing everything that transpires over the course of this season, I realize there is a ton of delicious foreshadowing in this episode.

[01:57:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll start with the disturbing storyline of Clara.

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_05]: She's like a walker who hasn't actually died yet.

[01:57:43] [SPEAKER_05]: More walker than human.

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why the fact she's Irish makes her creepier, but it does.

[01:57:48] [SPEAKER_05]: She looks like she's already dead, so every time she speaks it feels unnatural.

[01:57:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And the whole time she's with Rick, we're just waiting with bated breath, wondering what the hell is actually going on with this woman.

[01:57:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Unsurprisingly, she ends up being too far gone and so begins the can you come back conversation that is persistent.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_05]: A persistent debate throughout the series and something Rick especially continues to struggle with.

[01:58:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Rick says, how that woman wound up.

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I got close to that.

[01:58:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Herschel responds, you came back.

[01:58:14] [SPEAKER_05]: You get to come back.

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_05]: You do.

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Sidebar Rachel.

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I really like that Rick and Herschel scene.

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_05]: It's very, very sweet.

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Rachel goes on.

[01:58:22] [SPEAKER_05]: And I almost can't take the foreshadowing in this conversation, knowing the horror that is yet to come.

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_05]: In the mid-season finale that directly correlates to the scene and how far removed Rick becomes from the current version of himself afterwards.

[01:58:34] [SPEAKER_05]: His stability seems tenuous at best right now anyway.

[01:58:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And he probably feels that too.

[01:58:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Hence his avoidance of the outside world and refusal to carry his gun.

[01:58:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Of course we have to mention Lizzie and her BFF, Nick the Walker.

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_05]: She's just a sweet little girl who believes walkers are valuable human lives.

[01:58:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Totally harmless.

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Time for story.

[01:58:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Where Carol will teach her how to kill people.

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, I didn't think about that.

[01:58:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Carol kind of gave her the tools for her own undoing.

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_05]: The light-hearted banter interspersed throughout this episode is really something to treasure.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: It's so short-lived, it's absolutely refreshing and makes me smile.

[01:59:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Daryl is as close to a normal guy as he ever gets in this episode.

[01:59:13] [SPEAKER_05]: And Michonne's smile is like feeling the sun after a long gloomy winter.

[01:59:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Carol is teasing and flirty in a weird way with Daryl, but most importantly tells him,

[01:59:22] [SPEAKER_05]: give the stranger sanctuary, keeping people fed.

[01:59:25] [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to have to learn to live with the love.

[01:59:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, come on.

[01:59:28] [SPEAKER_05]: She might as well have said sanctuary for all, community for all.

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Those who arrive survive.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Love, love, love the scene between Daryl and Beth at the end.

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_05]: First, we see Beth writing in her journal.

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_05]: More foreshadowing of significant scenes with a much different vibe in later episodes.

[01:59:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It becomes clear that she and Daryl have formed a relationship in the months since we last saw them

[01:59:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and are pretty close.

[01:59:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Close enough that he went to tell her about Zach instead of her own brother-in-law.

[01:59:53] [SPEAKER_05]: This intimate moment between them in which she ends up comforting Daryl originally caught me off guard.

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Two people who never would have associated with each other in the pre-apocalypse seemed like such an odd pair,

[02:00:04] [SPEAKER_05]: but they find connection and love for one another unlike any other relationship on the show.

[02:00:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Two characters who complement each other surprisingly well

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and whose chemistry creates a dynamic I could watch endlessly.

[02:00:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Aw jeez, I'm going to make myself cry thinking about what's to come.

[02:00:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, zombies.

[02:00:22] [SPEAKER_05]: This episode is directed by Greg Nicotero in the most obvious and wonderful way

[02:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: because OMG these zombies.

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_05]: The one hanging from the roof by its intestines.

[02:00:31] [SPEAKER_05]: The one crawling with its foot hanging by a thread dragging behind it.

[02:00:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Too many good ones to name.

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_05]: With regard to the writing, Mr Gimple,

[02:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I do take issue with the fact that a helicopter apparently crashed on the roof of a Big Lots at some point

[02:00:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and did not fall through immediately when it crashed.

[02:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And what were all these people doing on the roof in the first place?

[02:00:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Presumably waiting for the helicopter.

[02:00:51] [SPEAKER_05]: But the action sequence is awesome enough that I easily suspend my disbelief.

[02:00:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Some notes.

[02:00:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Two phrases.

[02:00:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So cringe I almost vomited.

[02:00:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry Pookie.

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_05]: And young sir.

[02:01:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Ugh.

[02:01:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Michonne gloriously rides in on horseback and then gives Rick trimmers for his already perfectly manicured beard.

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Made me laugh.

[02:01:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Andy Lincoln couldn't have grown it out a bit to make this make sense.

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Herschel on the other hand.

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Santa emoji.

[02:01:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And finally, if Daryl Dixon licked his fingers while looking me in the eyes,

[02:01:19] [SPEAKER_05]: then shook my hand like that, I might actually spontaneously combust.

[02:01:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Druid emoji.

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Fire heart emoji.

[02:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Fire emoji.

[02:01:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So excited to finally be in season four.

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, fun fact.

[02:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I am pregnant in June, early April.

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Aw, congratulations.

[02:01:35] [SPEAKER_05]: So this season will bring me up to and past the birth of my daughter.

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm already thinking, OMG, I hope I don't miss out on the feedback for my favorite episodes

[02:01:44] [SPEAKER_05]: because I'm in labor or like caring for a newborn.

[02:01:47] [SPEAKER_05]: This is commitment, people.

[02:01:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Bye.

[02:01:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, congratulations, Rachel.

[02:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: All the best babies are born in April.

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I know this from a year.

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool.

[02:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll have time to watch TV while you're like nursing and everything.

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.

[02:02:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So what we're saying is you really, there's no excuse.

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to keep writing in.

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[02:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Something you said kind of blew my mind about she's teaching Lizzie to kill Carol because it reminded me of our conversation earlier in this podcast about how sometimes when you're trying to help,

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you end up making things worse.

[02:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[02:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And she specifically says, I'm going to show you where to stab.

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Lizzie ends up stabbing Mika.

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So that makes me think that this was planned from this moment, right?

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That Gimple knew what was going to happen later in the season and this was the seed of it.

[02:02:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Carol gave her the tools.

[02:02:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not too hard to know you stabbed somebody in the stomach, but I still think that there's something to this.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And it reminds me also as how later on in the series, when Carol tells Sam this creepy story of zombies in the forest, he'll be tied to a tree and they'll eat him or whatever.

[02:02:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then when he is encounters zombies, he screams and gets himself and his mother killed.

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of thought Carol didn't really help in that situation too much either.

[02:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if this is like a deliberate recurring theme with her.

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: That's interesting.

[02:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations, man.

[02:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: That's so cool.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing.

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Happy for you.

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[02:03:19] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[02:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Here, let's hear from Renee.

[02:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Renee.

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Renee calling in about the walking dead.

[02:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy new year.

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy new year.

[02:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be an awesome 2025.

[02:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting that out in the universe and we know it's going to be an awesome 2025 because I see the Rachel posted on the Facebook page.

[02:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That she's having a baby.

[02:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations, Rachel.

[02:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I am super duper excited for you, girl.

[02:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have to have a virtual Zoom baby shower or something so we can all attend the baby shower.

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get started.

[02:03:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Rick Grimes.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Come on.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, former Rick Grimes.

[02:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[02:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: He was looking all dirty and grimy.

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: He is so sexy to me.

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I love me a Southern man.

[02:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he is, I love, I love a man that can get his hands dirty.

[02:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you hear me?

[02:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I forget I'm even supposed to be looking at zombies.

[02:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just looking at Rick.

[02:04:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, sometimes I just get lost in his eyes and his smile.

[02:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I just really get carried away.

[02:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But all righty.

[02:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Rick, that was so cute when Rick was telling Carl not to name the pig.

[02:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when Carl looked all sad and was like, all right, Rick was like, okay, Violet, feel better.

[02:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: He's such a good father.

[02:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I really hope that we get to see him interact with RJ and Judith again.

[02:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I am praying for that.

[02:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: There's just no way that this is going to be over.

[02:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I can't wrap my head around that.

[02:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is the end.

[02:04:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It just cannot be.

[02:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.

[02:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: She said, I forgot, but she has, she said, Rick told Carl not to name the pigs.

[02:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's because you don't want to get too attached, right?

[02:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Because they're going to die.

[02:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Carl tells Lizzie not to name the zombies.

[02:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's also not to get too attached, but so they won't kill you because you let your guard down.

[02:05:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's, I think that also kind of hooks into Beth not letting herself get too attached to her boyfriend.

[02:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's like a little undercurrent theme going through this whole thing too.

[02:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Definitely.

[02:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I understand why the people was in awe of Daryl.

[02:05:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm wanting to shake his hand because I'm sure this is the safest place they have been since the ZA started.

[02:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And they can, then they realize that our group is good people.

[02:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But Daryl, he is so crass.

[02:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, licking his fingers and then shaking that young man's hand.

[02:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, ew, like Daryl, seriously, come on now.

[02:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Germs.

[02:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm.

[02:05:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, actually, this episode lets you know that, I mean, we still should care about germs.

[02:05:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like doing a ZA.

[02:05:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Who cares about germs?

[02:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: This episode here lets you know we need to still care about germs.

[02:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought it was super cute when Carol called Daryl pookie.

[02:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was cute.

[02:06:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I know Rachel was like she really wanted to throw up.

[02:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But I just thought it was super cute, man.

[02:06:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And Beth, she is so cute.

[02:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not understanding why she gets so much hate because Beth is the cutest.

[02:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's just a cute young lady growing up in the ZA.

[02:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: She's just, I don't understand the hate.

[02:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And when Hershey was telling Rick about the plant and when he was saying that things break, but then they can still grow.

[02:06:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[02:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: The bristles will take root and we'll have a whole new plant.

[02:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I really feel they was referring to Roshone.

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Because then they cut Rick heard the whistle and then they cut to Michonne.

[02:06:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, this was going down right in front of our face.

[02:06:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And the first time we didn't, I missed a lot of the signs.

[02:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I truly missed a lot of the signs.

[02:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, were I shipping, was I shipping them?

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course.

[02:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But I still missed a lot of the signs that I'm seeing now.

[02:06:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And Michonne, just her, they didn't actually tell her backstory.

[02:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But you could tell seeing her with the baby that she lost someone.

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: With Judith and just her sitting there holding Judith like that.

[02:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, Judith is the one that's going to bring you back.

[02:07:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're actually going to be this little girl's mother.

[02:07:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is, I am so happy we're doing this rewatch.

[02:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you guys.

[02:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I am just so happy to just look at it in a whole new light.

[02:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It is truly amazing to me when I watch The Walking Dead.

[02:07:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I just really want to bring this up.

[02:07:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just really trying to figure out why on The Walking Dead do they always leave things that they can use?

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_00]: The army trucks are much, much more durable than a freaking regular car.

[02:07:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't they take the army trucks?

[02:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Why they never take the guns and the bullets and all the things that they could use?

[02:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope they went back, as Rachel called it, the big lights.

[02:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Because, listen, all that stuff was in big lights.

[02:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we would have, baby, listen, we would have had all of that, okay?

[02:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: We would have had everything that was in there.

[02:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We would have had to go back, play the radio again, and get the zombie truck up out of there.

[02:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Because they had so much stuff that they can use.

[02:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And when Tyrese asked Sasha, was there every time you wasn't the boss of me?

[02:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It made me think about my brothers because I have five brothers.

[02:08:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the oldest girl.

[02:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're always calling me bossy, which I am.

[02:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, of course, I talk a lot because I don't went on and on and on.

[02:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: All righty, I will talk to you guys.

[02:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Peace and love.

[02:08:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Happy 2025 again.

[02:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Aw, happy 2025, Renee.

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Happy New Year.

[02:08:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I love it.

[02:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: She mentioned something.

[02:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, just Michonne holding Judith.

[02:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think about that.

[02:08:25] [SPEAKER_01]: That's really good.

[02:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Think about where that goes.

[02:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.

[02:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, that is our show, episode 618.

[02:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Good to be back with the rewatch.

[02:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for joining us, Karen.

[02:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you wanted to come and do this one.

[02:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for having me.

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It was so fun.

[02:08:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything you want to promote or anything?

[02:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing.

[02:08:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, not my own stuff.

[02:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[02:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: But I just realized that I'm wearing a Glenn and Maggie shirt,

[02:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and it says the quote from this episode.

[02:09:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It says, don't be afraid of being alive,

[02:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: which I thought was kind of cheesy.

[02:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's really nice.

[02:09:08] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I love it.

[02:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that.

[02:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[02:09:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, yeah.

[02:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.

[02:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Karen wants to promote living your life, people.

[02:09:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, living your life.

[02:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Do it.

[02:09:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Breathing.

[02:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Living.

[02:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Make 2025.

[02:09:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Good.

[02:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Next, we'll be talking about The Walking Dead,

[02:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: season 4, episode 2, Infected,

[02:09:26] [SPEAKER_01]: which was a harsh one.

[02:09:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Infected Nose, yeah.

[02:09:31] [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it,

[02:09:34] [SPEAKER_05]: you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[02:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[02:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And while you're there,

[02:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: if you want to check out our other podcast,

[02:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that would be great.

[02:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I have just been getting into Squid Game cast with David,

[02:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Veronica, and Daphne,

[02:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because season 2 of that show came out at 7 episodes.

[02:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going weekly and trying not to watch ahead.

[02:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been pretty great so far.

[02:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I know the reception to this season has...

[02:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting a feeling,

[02:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm trying not to see any spoilers,

[02:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: but it hasn't been as good.

[02:10:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm enjoying it so far.

[02:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I agree it's not as good,

[02:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but I still think it's good so far.

[02:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I've only seen two episodes, though.

[02:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: This episode has been made possible by Patreon supporters

[02:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: like Chantel Gillies,

[02:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: who pledged their support at patreon.com

[02:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: slash Jason Cabassi.

[02:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for doing that,

[02:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: because it helps me keep going with podcasting,

[02:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and I really appreciate it.

[02:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Chantel and everyone else.

[02:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's our show.

[02:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening.

[02:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't get bit.

[02:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Tam Gravenal.