622: "Internment" (TWD S4E5 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Ah! Welcome back. I passed down. You were dehydrated. Being a hero takes a lot out of you. You should know. I thought you were an idiot to come in here. I mean, I was sure you were just gonna be a dead foolish man.

[00:00:29] I can't tell if that's a compliment. I don't know what I'm saying. I must've hit my head. I don't believe in magic, or luck. I do the math, and I don't gamble.

[00:00:51] I don't know if I'd be here right now if you weren't so damn stupid. You know what? I'm gonna take that as a compliment.

[00:01:36] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is The Cast of Us episode 622. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead, Season 4, Episode 5, Internment. Internment. Which I didn't know what that word meant until about four minutes ago when I looked it up. Can you explain it to me? Because I got confused with internment. I thought it was about like medical interns or something. Internships.

[00:02:04] Yeah, like people are helping Herschel. But it means the state of being confined as a prisoner. That's what internment is. So it's not about Glenn's internship. No, medical internship. Candy Striper. Yep. Okay. Okay. Walking Dead, Season 4, Episode 5, Internment. I'll read the plot summary. Go for it. To switch it up. Tensions rise at the farm as the group struggles with the on glowing. See what happens? On glowing.

[00:02:34] On glowing. They're just glowing with sickness. Ongoing flu outbreak. Herschel continues to care for the sick and the survivors are faced with dwindling supplies and increasing danger. Rick and the others work to contain the outbreak and keep the infected from spreading the illness. Meanwhile, Herschel's faith in the group is tested. What the fuck is this? This is totally bullshit. I got it from ChatGBT and as I'm reading it, I'm like, that's not what happened at all. That's why you should use Wikipedia.

[00:03:04] I know. You're right. I'm going to Wikipedia. Sorry. Okay. Uh, cause it says here, Herschel's faith in the group is tested, especially when walkers break into the farm. The episode ends with Rick and the group having to defend the farm and make tough decisions to ensure their survival. I mean, they were farming, but... They're farm adjacent. There it goes. The infected survivors begin to succumb to the illness and reanimate as walkers, forcing the survivors to start to kill their friends.

[00:03:33] Daryl's group returns in time for Herschel and Bob to help administer the medicine and cure the remaining infected. Carol's absence from the group is noticed, but Rick only confides in his choice to a select few. As the survivors recover and try to return to regular routine, they're unaware they're being watched from afar by the governor. The governor. The governor. Duh. So what'd you think about watching this one? Yeah, I enjoyed it well enough. It's a slow...

[00:04:03] I find it quite slow. I don't know why, especially on the second watch. I don't know if it's just like, I wasn't in the right frame of mind to watch it. It's quite a slog. I don't know if it's because I know that we're coming up to like... I did the timeline and basically this day at the end of the episode, we're going to be on this day for like basically most of the rest of the season because this is the day that the governor attacks. This is the day when all the groups splinters.

[00:04:28] So I hope that you all really enjoy day 524 because we are going to be here for a while. But no, there's some really strong moments, some really gross moments and some really powerful moments in it. So yeah, it was good. Yeah, I did. I thought it was a fantastic episode. I just horrific and the progression of how bad things get while Herschel's trying to keep

[00:04:55] things positive is so like, I always remember this episode hitting hard. And I think one reason is because illness is more relatable than zombies. You know, we've all been sick. We've been around sick people. It's awful. And that feeling of helplessness as it gets worse and worse. It's almost too much actually. Like, I don't know if you want to go here at all, but I wondered about you. Like if you felt triggered because you had a sick friend recently. Yeah. I think about that at all.

[00:05:25] Sort of. I think I thought about it in terms of at the end when Herschel kind of all hits him. And I think I could sympathize with like, when you're in the midst of it, you don't always feel it. And I think what Dr. S says about end stage and like when you know you're going and he knows he's going at that point. I thought that was quite powerful. But I think what's difficult about these episodes in a way is how quickly it happens

[00:05:51] and how just helpless everyone feels in it. Like it's one thing when you're confronted with like one person who has a disease that you're informed about and you're given a prognosis and you kind of get your head around it and you try and learn to live with it. But what I think this episode does really well is it's like the snowball effect of like, everyone's dying. The fence is coming down. The antibiotics aren't here. It's scary.

[00:06:19] And I think I felt there's a moment I'd forgotten about where one of the characters, I think is it his kid has died or something. And he's like, he's sleeping. And Herschel's like, do you want me to come in and look with him? And he's like, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, oh, that really bypassed me the first couple of times. But yeah. And the way that Herschel, I think, tries to keep the humanity of it in amidst all the horror, usually with The Walking Dead, it's like a quick put down and you know, you're just faced with those problems.

[00:06:48] But Herschel has this kind of old gentlemanly way of wanting to keep it all. I don't know, keep people's hopes up. And that's quite, I don't know, I can sympathize with that in the face of illness and sickness and people being ill, you know? Yeah. Because yeah, it's like a rapid version of things that some of us have lived with over a longer period of time, but they're similar. Like you're saying, like, how do you just not be like, you see someone who, you know, is

[00:07:16] sick and maybe dying, maybe not, but just really sick and just not be like, oh my God, this is awful. They don't want that. Right. And even in this compressed timeframe, well, they need hope because he doesn't want them just giving up. But yeah, it's just trying to keep the spirits up and not just have the focus beyond the horribleness of the situation. Yeah. Especially for the kids. It is horrible. Yeah. There's a really cute little guy with curly hair who I don't think we ever see again. And I'm like, oh, that kid's really cute.

[00:07:46] And I bet you die in the next episode. Yeah. And then he puts him in a cell with Lizzie and I'm like... I know. I was like, no! Like, well, have fun in there. Like, awful. Well, let's get into the points. Well, I'd like to talk a little about Rick and Carl. And it kind of, it follows on from what you were saying, because one of the bits that stood out to me with Rick and Carl is, it's actually quite a nice episode for the two of

[00:08:13] them because Rick finally lets Carl act up in a good way, like act up the way rather than act up like a kid who's being a pain in the ass. Um, but one of the things that Carl says to him is you can't keep him away from what always happens. And I think what he's talking about is death and danger. And Rick says, that's it. You can't keep me from what always happens. And Rick says, I think it's my job to try.

[00:08:40] And it's this thing about protecting your child from the darkness of the world. And even when you're not in the zombie apocalypse, I know I have friends who are parents who struggle with the idea that their, their kids are going to have to have bad experiences at some points. And that must be really, really hard to know that there is pain and death and danger out there. But what we see with Rick and Carl in this episode is he, he comes to Carl almost as an equal to ask for help. And he shows him how to use the gun.

[00:09:09] And Carl has pretty much played by the rules since we saw him shoot that kid down at the end of last season. And you know, he says, Dad, I haven't used my gun, blah, blah, blah. Um, and this kind of weirdly, I think this is my only on the walking dead moment is like only on the walking dead would a father son. Do you all mowing down a crowd of walkers be like quite heartwarming. Mm hmm. Father son bonding experience. It's a father son zombie massacre.

[00:09:38] And we're all here for it. Um, yeah. Yeah. And I just love that. I loved seeing and there's this moment where Rick steps back and he's just watching Carl because Carl's like thrown him some bullets. He's like saved Rick's ass by shooting a zombie while Rick was, um, not distracted, but you know, he was having a moment trying to get to it. And yeah, I just feel like Carl comes into his own this episode.

[00:09:59] And obviously because it's a rewatch, we're always thinking a little bit ahead and I'm thinking about, um, what comes next, which is Rick and Carl's very intense episode where Rick's basically incapacitated and Carl's really frigging angry at him. Tiki jar jar do. Yeah. Do do do do do do. Oh my God. Gingerbread boy.

[00:10:24] Um, but yeah, I just, I liked the Rick and Carl stuff in this episode. Um, I thought the two of them together was, was quite touching and it was nice to see the two of them, uh, work together like that. And for Carl to say to his dad that it was all going to be okay at the end was, was quite nice. I think I missed that part. When the, um, car is pulling up and he's like, dad, it's all going to be okay. Everything's going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:52] I mean, when, when Carl said you can't keep me from what always happens, I thought he's right. He doesn't. And he doesn't. And that's sad, right? To think about it. Like, no, I don't think the writers had that in mind. No, I don't think they did at all. And it's, I just love watching Andrew Lincoln and Chandler Riggs together cause they famously had a really good relationship off screen as well. And I just, um, it's just nice to see them together.

[00:11:18] Like I really do think that if he hadn't gotten written off the show when he did, we might've had Rick for longer. I don't regret like what we did have, but I do think that was probably a big factor in it. I do. I'd rather have Carl if it meant Rick stayed. Yeah. Which sounds like a weird thing to say for people who don't know me. Rick's my favorite character, but I also enjoyed that more people had got to shine after he left.

[00:11:41] And then we got to wrap up his story, but I would rather have, if it meant keeping Carl alive and not had that, I would have preferred that. Yeah, absolutely. Um, and then, yeah, like it's true. Can't keep me from what always happens. Even now, my son Nico's 13. I see him going through stuff.

[00:12:04] I want to tell him, you know, my thoughts, but he's in that teen phase where I can tell he doesn't want me to sit there and scrutinize his life and try to help him through it, you know? And so I'm like, all right. I'm like, you know, you can always talk to me. And then I let him, you know, but I do try to sneak it in sometimes. Yeah. We just mow down zombies together. We were just outside yesterday, me and Bodhi and Nico.

[00:12:33] This is tangentially related maybe. And we were walking down to the mall to get some lunch. And this guy across the street goes, God damn it. Like that. And I was like, Oh my God, I look over and it's a clean cut looking guy. Not like some, you know, he didn't look mentally ill or anything, but he was out of control emotionally. And so I'm just like, all right, stay away from that guy.

[00:12:58] And then I was looking something up on my phone and, oh, we had to come back because we needed reservations. And so we were going to go back later. Anyway, I was looking stuff up on my phone and that guy's still there and he's still screaming. And then he crosses the street where we are and he's all, Hey, can I borrow your phone? I need to call my dad. And I'm like, no. And he goes, well, why not you fucker? And I'm like, because you were yelling in the middle of the street street. You're scaring my kids. And he's like, well, screw you.

[00:13:25] You, you people who don't or are not San Francisco natives just need to get out of here. And I'm like, what the hell is he talking about? He doesn't know whether we're natives or not. And, uh, I wonder if it was an anti-Asian thing. Cause my kids are half Asian. I don't even know, but I was just like, dude, no, thanks. Bye. So was that like your local Senator or just, I don't know what the hell that was all about. Anyway, that's so off track. I'm going to Nico and Bodhi. You shoot or you run. Don't let him get close.

[00:13:53] I asked Nico later, do you think I should have let him use my phone? And he's like, no, I mean, he might've thrown it down on the ground for all I know. Yeah, absolutely. I did feel kind of bad for him, but whatever. Nah, there's other stuff going on there. That's not your problem today. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, uh, I'll go into my next point, which is, um, I have some stuff to say about Carl and Rick, but maybe I'll save that and get into medical stuff. Yum.

[00:14:21] Um, so first I have a few different points that kind of relate to medical stuff. One is the accuracy of using antibiotics to combat a flu. Cause we had a call in saying that it was inaccurate that they'd use antibiotics to combat this sickness cause antibiotics treat bacterial infections. And this is a strain of the flu, which is viral. And I was like, I don't, I know the writers are a little, they cut corners sometimes, but

[00:14:50] I don't think they would have that kind of an inaccuracy for something so central. I feel like they would do some research and not be that careless about it. So I did some digging to find out. And when the council is talking about the sickness, Carol says, what are we going to do to stop this? Herschel says, there's no stopping it. You get it. You have to go through it. Michonne says, but it just kills you. And Herschel says the illness doesn't, the symptoms do we need antibiotics.

[00:15:17] So based on that exchange, I think what's happening is the antibiotics aren't treating the illness or flu itself, which Herschel says you can't treat. You just have to go through it, but they're being used to fight secondary bacterial infections. So I read that viral illnesses like the flu can weaken the immune system, making it easier for bacteria to invade the lungs and other parts of the body.

[00:15:40] And in real life, people with severe flu are sometimes prescribed antibiotics to treat or prevent complications like bacterial pneumonia. So it does reflect a real world medical approach to treating complications from viral illnesses and the dialogue and the action, I think, support that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's what it's all about. And I guess at that stage, you're going to do whatever you can. Like you're just going to try. Well, yeah.

[00:16:07] I mean, I think it was more than just, you know, we don't really know what to do. So let's try this because it might help. I think Herschel was like, look, you're having symptoms related to the bacterial infection because your immune system is weakened. So we know how to treat that antibiotics. And it did work. But, you know, they can't give him that dialogue. No. So I also thought just antibiotics brings up a lot for me there.

[00:16:33] You know, they're drugs that kill or slow the growth of bacteria to treat bacterial infections. They're a freaking miracle. I mean, here, the antibiotics get there. People start to get better almost immediately. People without experience with antibiotics might think, oh, that's that that's not real. But they do work that fast. In my experience, I've needed them. I've been doing them a few times, even just over the past few years, because I had an ear infection and I felt better within a few hours after taking them.

[00:17:03] So, yeah, I think that part makes sense, too. But I think it shouldn't go without saying that. And probably most of you know this, but overusing antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistance where bacteria evolved to survive treatments that previously killed them. And my wife, who's a doctor, who's a doctor, and we think they've got a lot of antibiotics out ofание. And my wife is a doctor who's a doctor mentions this a lot! So that makes infections harder to treat treat. And it can pose serious health risks if people overuse them too much.

[00:17:29] like people they won't work anymore um so we can use them responsibly by only taking them when prescribed um always take the full course always take the full course otherwise the bacteria that don't die out are just stronger and could breed and resist um never using leftover antibiotics or sharing them with others yeah that kind of stuff little public service announcement there absolutely last week you learned how to wash blood out of your clothes this week you're learning

[00:17:58] antibiotics you are welcome the more you know um the the air squeeze bottle with the guy cloughing up blood and sasha squeezes the bottle to push air into him and then later hershey herschel and maggie hershey and maggel uh use it on your plan and uh that's i guess a makeshift ventilator and they probably are having respiratory failure because of fluid buildup in the lungs from bacterial

[00:18:23] pneumonia so they need a ventilator to force air into their lungs and i read that can also cause like long-term lung damage but they never mentioned anything about that with glenn after this i mean i will say i i definitely agree with what you say about antibiotics sometimes having a really quick effect when it comes to what glenn's going to be doing in like one or two days time i am like you were literally just dying of choking on your own blood like two days ago but it's fine

[00:18:49] no you're you're absolutely like that is walking dead they get beat the fuck to death and then they're i mean herschel lost his leg i don't know how long ago now maybe a couple months but still like two days pretty ridiculous yeah ridiculous um and then doctors as patients so herschel said to dr s or caleb doctors make the worst patients and i was thinking about that with with jenny my wife who's a doctor and i've seen her um go in for things a few times uh she got bitten by that dog

[00:19:19] recently that i talked about um and and and also i've seen her when she goes in to when we bring our kids in and she's there to talk to the doctors uh just for exams or whatever if they're having a problem and every time as soon as the doctor examining her or one of our kids knows that she's a doctor too the conversation totally changes they they start speaking in medical language medical

[00:19:44] shorthand they skip over a lot of things and go straight to the important stuff faster symptoms and solutions and the dynamic changes there's usually a mutual respect with her and another doctor and if there's nurses or aides there they sometimes start deferring to her almost like she's the boss which i thought was interesting i guess there's such a hierarchy i guess in you know medical situations

[00:20:09] i don't tell so i've my title is doctor because i've got phd in humanities i don't tell medical professionals unless they ask that it's not a medical degree because i think sometimes they give you more direct treatment or they're more open with you about things um but they do check some people do the minute they come in they're like oh and what is what does that area doctor have and i'm like ah

[00:20:35] damn it and i'm like uh nothing useful um not this but it is interesting because i do think you get treated a bit better sometimes it's it's a weird one they're more straight with you and yeah yeah yeah they yeah sometimes i feel like um yeah there's just more respect there yeah yeah so i like having jenny with me and and she's super tough too by the way when she was pregnant with nico and she knew

[00:21:00] she'd be having the baby at the same hospital that she worked at at the time and the day she went into labor she drove to the hospital she put in a day's work and then she had the baby while she was like having contractions throughout the day so is she a good patient yeah i mean she got she tore her acl which

[00:21:22] is in your knee skiing a couple years back and uh she was pretty lax on the physical therapy i don't know i hope she's okay with me saying this i don't think she would care but um then it um and the the physical therapist kept telling her you need to do more but she just doesn't have a lot of time that's why but um then it started to have negative impact so she realized oh i guess you know he was right i do need to do more so she's been making more of an effort now and it's had a good but i mean

[00:21:50] i would say though for with her it's not true she she's a good patient i think from what i've seen yeah that's awesome yeah and anyone who's curious about her by the way if you haven't already check out our white lotus podcast it's me and her and randy who does uh welcome to the apocalypse as well the zombie pro podcast and white lotus season three comes out next month and we're all excited to get going on it yeah that's gonna be really cool thailand okay what else

[00:22:20] uh i'll talk about some medical stuff um i usually have quite a high gross out factor i'm usually pretty like yeah i'm fine with this yeah whatever oh my god this episode it's really bad um the worst bit for me was when i thought herschel was going to reuse the same intubation tube on glenn as had been in the henry the zombie's throat um thankfully

[00:22:49] i don't think he did i think uh he used the the balloon but used a new um what's the word tube or whatever what's the word sterile that's one sterile tube yep yep but oh my god steven yun harking up all that stuff as glenn was absolutely revolting oh my god i couldn't i could not for me it's scary even now knowing he survives it's just you feel like oh my god no not glenn horrifying

[00:23:17] absolutely horrifying um and the the way they play a lot of this episode the body horror is just off the scale like and it starts so quietly with you know herschel showing sasha and glenn how to intubate and how to keep the um oxygen flowing into the guy's lungs and it's such a weird foreshadowing because we know that glenn's going to need it later in the episode and he sort of says how long can you keep

[00:23:43] this going for and herschel's like as long as we're willing to do it um and it's just so ominous and of course sasha passes out from dehydration which is often one of the worst um side effects with a cold or flu is is dehydration and that's why you end up in hospital is because you need um an iv and just to make sure that you're getting your electrolytes um dr s looks terrible bleeding from the eyes yeah oh god

[00:24:10] when he's like look at me herschel i'm like oh this is like a different kind of horror film um and someone keeling over in spasm and dying out in the hallway herschel yelling get back in your cells while sasha goes to get the stretcher it's so grim it's so so bleak and so upsetting just to see people in that much medical distress um i just thought this episode did a really good job of pulling that horror out of the

[00:24:39] situation it wasn't even the threat of becoming a walker is obviously always there but the actual disgustingness of the um what is happening to these people just very well rendered very well done yeah yeah and it's it's just so bleak well so i'll i'll go into um herschel fights the sickness and

[00:25:08] the bleakness which um it's one of the bleakest scenarios in all of the walking dead maybe i it really stands out to me and it's such a contrast with how horrific it is and herschel in there fighting it trying to keep people's spirits up he's like a shining light in the dark you know and at one point he quotes steinbeck a sad soul can kill quicker than a germ and i think there's some truth to that for sure

[00:25:36] um good advice and and um he's you get the sickly sasha and glenn trying to help and but looking really rough and herschel going i hereby declare we have spaghetti tuesdays every wednesday his famous line oh that oh yes caught me off guard i wasn't expecting it i think it's corny but it's so lovable

[00:26:00] and and uh man sasha and glenn did not go for it at all you know what they could have cheered up a little bit if you asked me i was like where's your sense of humor guys that's hilarious i think it helped on a subconscious level yeah i think it healed them then completely and then uh one of the sick people dies and glenn's about to knife him and

[00:26:26] herschel says not here you know just wanting to keep and i think he was about to read last rites he's just trying to keep remember our humanity kind of thing um and i with him being so heroic i and also having a good episode last week i think or the week before i wondered if karen and i thought oh they're giving herschel a lot to do i i think they're gonna kill him off i don't remember thinking

[00:26:53] that uh herschel won't let maggie come in and they're meeting by the door with the glass window and that was really lovely and he said just hold it together a little longer please i love you honey i thought that was really nice and and then he said how's bethy which made me remember that uh rick called judith judy last time and their little nicknames for each other um and then but it just

[00:27:21] keeps getting worse glenn looking more and more deathly caleb with those bleeding eyes and saying just make sure everyone's doors are shut which herschel nods at so i think he's optimistic but not delusional um and herschel another guy spasms and coughs up blood and dies and i think that might have been the first time we ever saw herschel stab somebody in the head and herschel's like go back

[00:27:47] in your cells don't look look away uh and then she he finds sasha unresponsive in her cell and this bloody mouth woman lying in her cell and then her eyes open because she's turned and it's like oh my god i i feel like i didn't yeah just think that it would get so bad until like then it's just total mayhem pandemonium zombies everywhere herschel says caleb we need the gun and then caleb's like

[00:28:17] oh that's brilliant i'm like and then we have freaking lizzie out there trying to lead a zombie away from glenn come on boy come on i'm like fuck me i was like in the middle of all this you've got a child demon play with me play peter was like to be fair she did save glenn and i'm like yeah yeah and and she when it fell on her she screamed so i'm like well at least she recognizes

[00:28:45] in that moment she's in danger but she's also then defending her reasoning to herschel and for some reason that scene stood out the most to me in this episode and i always thought this episode had more of that but it was just that one little bit with her with lizzie um then glenn yeah you said as you said coughing up so much blood maggie finally has enough and comes in and uh she she saves both of

[00:29:11] their lives right because he herschel's trying to get that ventilator and the zombies attacking him maggie shoots the zombie and then saves herschel's life and then they go save glenn's life um then they get there with the antibiotics and that's pretty much it everyone's totally fine and then herschel takes that moment to himself and cries and doesn't have to hold together anymore yeah scott wilson is

[00:29:37] incredible in this episode he's so so good yeah and it's it's fun i'm sure to play get to play just a total hero with only good qualities you know he's got no flaws in this episode whatsoever he's just he's just the person you would want to be it's like what rick says to him he's like they're looking at you herschel like you're elevating this you're the one yeah it's just really

[00:30:03] beautiful and what if he hadn't been there um oh i was thinking about this would it just be in carnage would it have just been like i i feel like hopefully people would have gone in their cells and closed the doors and so honestly i don't know for sure but maybe just a few more people would have died one of whom may have been glenn you know yeah which is not good no yeah although

[00:30:28] would you rather die like that or by negan smashing your head in a lineup neither are great uh gosh which one would i how would i rather go i guess i guess the sickness yeah but um he got to live a little longer so there's that he got to see terminus yeah oh god what did he what did he get after that he must have had some

[00:30:57] good times in there somewhere we'll see you need to watch the the robot chicken episode where they go to terminus it's so good it's a musical i've seen that but it's been forever so i really remember every time we talk about terminus we both go welcome to terminus it's really gonna wreck that reveal for me that oh my goodness bad lip reading i know it's just we've we've gone full meme now haven't we

[00:31:21] i feel like like it was always funny to be watching this show where it's about you know cannibal monsters and then karen and i would come on and be like hey everybody you gotta counteract the bleakness somehow it's too funny it's too funny um anything else i liked that we learned a little more oh hang on no about herschel um

[00:31:49] some council meeting huh yeah that whole scene is is just beautiful um and yeah i feel like he really should have got more of a laugh than he did for the spaghetti tuesdays line um his interest in preserving the innocence of the kids is is interesting to me like there's a point later in the episode where he's really in i would say quite a lot of danger like he gets out of it he guides

[00:32:13] the the walkers away and shoots them with caleb shotgun but he doesn't he takes time to do that rather than kill them in front of lizzie um which is right which not necessarily reckless but it's it's it's it's ill-advised i would say i mean he survives but it's he's very noble um into this um into the end right up to the end of his uh his character arc here um and i think you're right i

[00:32:42] think he has kept more people alive in this than would have been without him and i think he is the hope for them and he is treating them like they're human and like there is hope and that makes such a difference i mean that's one thing i did think about was um when someone is very ill how they are treated by the people around them and the people who treat them humanely or talk to them like they're very sick it can make a huge difference to how you feel about yourself and your self-esteem and

[00:33:09] you know how how optimistic or pessimistic you feel about how things are at that moment i mean i think also well maybe i'm only getting this from tv and movies but it seems like at some point a person can decide to keep living or decide to die if it's really bad you know i think there is

[00:33:33] yeah like i always shy away from one of the things that my friend who passed away i think really didn't like and i can totally see why is the idea of like an illness or cancer is a battle that you can win or lose yeah you're a survivor slay queen you survived because sometimes you just get handed a shit lot and no absolutely i know there's a fine line there yeah yeah i don't want to say like oh it's because then

[00:34:00] you can sort of say start to say it's the person's fault that they have it and i don't want anyone to ever think that you know what i mean but i think you have a point in that i think sometimes when people know something is terminal it's not that they give up but they stop struggling yeah and i think there's a difference there yeah and sometimes that's good that's peaceful that's nice subject but yeah like i think that kind of thing only happens when they're on the precipice and then at that point

[00:34:29] you can choose okay i'm going to stop fighting it and let it happen or you can fight more you know and here when you got antibiotics coming that could save you you need someone to help you fight a little bit longer so you can get the treatment well i think that does make a huge difference like is it sasha and tyrese have that conversation yeah and sasha's like there could be medicine by tomorrow and like that makes a huge difference to her because she knows right and actually that is kind of my next

[00:34:55] point was what we learned a bit more about sasha in this episode um she's one of the characters i'm really glad to get to know again because knowing how she goes out and the kind of journey that she goes on a comic book character she wasn't somebody that i really knew anything about going in so in this episode she's determined to help herschel uh sasha and glenn are right there by his side at the start

[00:35:21] um they're both looking absolutely crap like they both look very very ill um there's a moment where sasha goes to get a stretcher um to help herschel out and she's barely standing like she's dead on her feet essentially and herschel finds her later keeled over in her cell so obviously us watching at home at this point we're probably like oh um but he gets her iv fluids she was very

[00:35:48] dehydrated and she wakes up and she has this really interesting bit of dialogue where she says she doesn't believe in magic or luck um she's someone who does the math and doesn't gamble however she kind of laughs because she's like herschel is proving that wrong because he's persisting she says i don't know if i'd be right here right now if you weren't so damn stupid yeah and i think it's just a really nice moment because with with sasha we're only just starting

[00:36:15] to get to know her a little bit and i feel sort of like all eyes are on tyrese because he's a comic book character he's had more things to do with um losing karen and kind of watching him deal with his rage and his his upset at that but i'm excited to see where sasha goes because we're going to get a bit of development with her and bob and then her and abraham and her and maggie's friendship which i really liked and then eventually she dies a very heroic death like she nearly takes negan out

[00:36:45] um so it's interesting to see a bit the kind of fabric that makes her as a character and how that ties into to where she's gonna go so yeah i love spending more time with sonequa martin green um playing sasha in this role for someone so beautiful she looks disgusting like there's a bit where she's lying back on the pillow and it's just like oh my god she's like clammy and looks oh it's really gross still hot no offense still hot but like you know you might wear a mask

[00:37:16] yeah i i like her character a lot i think for my money she made more of an impact than tyrese on the series yeah i don't like i never liked when she got together with abraham and i know renee is saying me neither because uh they just i mean yeah it was a shitty thing to do to rosita but also it was just weird like they didn't have chemistry i didn't think no i'm with you on that i'm like

[00:37:41] really really and also like i do wonder if we would have been sadder about abraham dying if he hadn't been such a dick to rosita yeah the last six episodes last time we're like you're a dick we're like i'm not saying because michael cutlitz is so great i mean he's amazing i was thinking the other day about um he used to have a lookalike from germany or something who would walk around

[00:38:04] at walker stalker and it was uncanny like they were so similar it was really weird yeah oh my gosh speaking of really wild lookalikes i i probably told the story on the podcast before but um what they would have these amazing costume parties at walker stalker because it was um especially in atlanta around halloween and um one time there was a a bust of herschel's head and it was on a picnic

[00:38:32] table with uh you know the red and white stripes and yeah he was like slurping up some spaghetti and um it's like the spaghetti tuesday thing and karen went over and uh to get a picture and i'm like i think i don't remember if it was my idea or hers but she went to kiss him on the head and it turned out it was a real guy we didn't know it was really funny that's amazing i would love to see

[00:39:01] the photo evidence of this yeah i gotta find that hilarious all right um my turn yes all right let me see if i have anything else to say about rick i had a point rick leadership and making the tough calls because he's i feel like having to ease back into this leadership position he can't hide away from the realities of the world and so he has to deal with when it's okay to use violence while

[00:39:26] tempering himself and having to also guide carl along that path rather than keeping him hiding away especially even carl doesn't want to be hiding away he wants to be in there helping and so he he you know the first scene is him uh looking at his fist that's bandaged and bleeding because he just beat tyrese and then ed's watch that carol gave him i guess he's wearing it right

[00:39:54] he's wearing it's no he had it in his hand it's like sitting weirdly like a watch commercial yeah and uh i think that shows the focus on the burden of having to step back and try to lead in two recent tough situations that he's had to deal with with tyrese and carol and i thought oh i like that fretting again over this um then he comes through the gates in the hyundai and this heroic hyundai shot

[00:40:19] back from banishing carol and i totally did not remember that maggie asked him right away where's carol but no i want to know where carol is and then he told her the truth which i admire you know i'm glad he didn't try to hide it and then she she's like sort of processing but quickly like he rick's like would you have brought her would you have brought her back she said she killed them yeah then you were right to send her away i don't know if i could have and then rick says you could have maggie you've

[00:40:46] done harder things don't doubt yourself we don't get to anymore and i'm like you doubt yourself all the time like but he's maybe talking to himself here a little bit but um i also think once maggie does become a leader that she spends less time doubting herself than rick ever did and she has to make a lot of hard decisions but she's very yeah it's very cool knowing where they both end up as leaders of

[00:41:12] opposing not but not opposing not opposing camps but opposing viewpoints of how to deal with situations yeah that's right yeah it's really cool how to deal with you and and and i think this is maybe the writers already had an idea that rick does see maggie as a future leader because at some point he tells her you know i want you to be leading me or something like that after this i think it was

[00:41:37] after i'm gonna follow you yeah after the all at war with negan and the saviors um and then at the end daryl asks herschel about where's carol and herschel says go ask rick so i guess that means rick or maggie told herschel because herschel seems to know oh well you you see rick say to him i need to talk to you about carol and then herschel kind of staggers back in and i'm like oh man is he like

[00:42:04] he seems pretty upset about what's happened but also there's a lot of other stuff going on so like yeah yeah i mean if i had to guess i would guess that herschel supported rick's decision because he said she's okay which yeah i don't know if she's okay but that's what he wants to think yeah i think he's more shocked by what carol did i guess maybe because it's the complete opposite of

[00:42:29] what herschel's been doing that's right yeah yeah herschel would never know um and then so that's around carol but the other thing uh is with carl like if he if rick is realizing i have to step up and help with these harder situations i can't just be a farmer i can be a farmer i can't just be a farmer and then carl wants to do the same and carl here wants to help rick shore up the fence that's

[00:42:58] weakening from all the extra zeds coming in thanks lizzie and yeah cheers and rick says no and carl says dad you can't keep me from it from what from what always happens yeah maybe but i think it's my job to try but then um rick lets him help and then the zombies just then break down the fence and get in and i'm like man this place well that's one thing that's great about this episode is the threats

[00:43:22] coming like you said earlier from all directions from outside and inside yeah um inside the prison and inside our bodies inside their bodies but um i'm like you were there for a long time at the prison where things were going peacefully you really should have shored up those rickety chain link fences better honestly i'm like that's dumb they've held for this long yeah and you think about the other

[00:43:48] communities woodbury which they should have taken inspiration from had a sturdy wall later they don't know about this but later alexandria has a wall hilltop has a wall right um yes hilltop has those really tall walls yeah yeah um well sanctuary i don't know if it had a wall but it had like zombies chained up outside like a zombie moat kind of a thing and it had a barbecue uh no that's terminus

[00:44:13] i'm sorry sanctuary yes i thought you took it to her oh sorry i'm just hungry i'm just hungry it was talking about herminus earlier i was like oh i'm hungry now um yes you're right the sanctuary didn't really have a wall it had some fences but not wall so then when um rick decides still okay yeah i need carl to help and is quickly teaching him how to use this semi-automatic gun all right magazine goes in here releases here pull back the operating rod uh keep squeezing the trigger for

[00:44:38] rapid fire i was thinking carl must be like yeah he's like i'm so glad i watched bad boys and and and i think yeah this is about rick trusting depending on carl again that he can carry out the necessary violence without it turning him callous do what needs to be done and then i keep

[00:45:01] thinking that well i think carl never does turn callous but rick we haven't seen rick at peak callousness yet no so it's interesting he's gone through this whole arc where he's afraid he's he's afraid he's afraid if i step back in and start getting mixing it up in ways where violence is involved

[00:45:24] i might lose myself and then he does i think yeah yeah it's a bummer yeah but we need our flawed characters or else we've got to too boring also maybe they should have broke out those guns before the fence caved in i did laugh when i saw like a full trolley of just like guns

[00:45:48] i was like sure that's cool like shoot the zombies through the chain link fence that works it's easy you know it's like we must preserve ammo until it looks cool and then we don't need to right all right that's all my points i feel like i've got loads of like bit points but not a huge amount um i guess i'd like to just say that it's a strong episode for maggie she's given quite a lot to do um

[00:46:16] when she turns up terrified about why glenn's not there i just uh it my heart broke a little bit um because when glenn was like if you know i was sick like this you could you couldn't keep her out and i'm like i don't know you don't you don't look amazing like but in all seriousness i thought he's right yeah maggie you would you would not um and i thought the way that rick checks in with her about carol was really interesting and seeing her kind of think through that and doubt herself but also

[00:46:44] understand because i think rick needs to hear like yeah you did the right thing at that point um yeah yeah because he's saying don't doubt yourself would you have done any different what he's really saying is i'm doubting myself did i do the right thing i think i most and i loved her busting into the the wing of the prison to go and help herschel and glenn and she shoots her way through the window in the visitation when room that they've been using or i think it might be the the death death row

[00:47:13] death sentence room um and there's just this lovely moment with her and her dad where he's like you know i didn't want you to come here and she says i had to just like you just like you dad and they like he touches her face and she kisses his hand and then lizzie appears and asks if it's over and maggie kind of moves from being a little girl to being like more grown up and says i hope so honey to lizzie and i just yeah it's just a really lovely moment and i'm really glad that she and herschel get

[00:47:40] this time um she tells him to go and rest now that everyone's back she looks after glenn yeah i just feel like maggie's quietly coming into her own a lot at this point in the show transitional period yeah like i love that moment you just pointed out because it's i love how we slip into different roles with different people and she's being a little girl with her dad kind of and then being yeah more of a

[00:48:05] nurturing mom figure till lizzie just on a turn of a dime there yeah it's like in between stage um and yeah i just loved it i just thought it was a really cute moment for both of them and yeah i'm just sad that herschel's going they got along really well too those two actors oh you can just there's so much love there between the two of them like just so much love um and the way he he's protecting glenn above all the other patients because he knows what he

[00:48:32] means to maggie and and what he means to him what he means to herschel um it's just really lovely it's a lot of love there yep in story and on a meta level exactly real life well let's see i have a mini sort of mini point too i keep thinking about how the sort of culmination of season three was rick deciding to bring all the woodbarians in and then i think it's a little dark that the writers

[00:48:59] took advantage of having all these randoms around to do this story it's right it's yeah it's a really good story and i i don't blame them at all but um the triumph of last season is used for fodder kind of i know i mean we don't no one really survives for yeah it's it's yeah it's not great but no one we really cared about died it was yeah only the woodbarians i mean the only time anyone we cared

[00:49:26] about died is if we liked them in their first episode that was also their last like patrick kid yeah that's boyfriend you know that's basically what herschel said as well it's like look no one we cared about died it's basically what he was saying they just cut the scene because it was felt to be a bit rude right right like don't worry guys it's all fine um but i was trying to figure out how many died

[00:49:49] and the walking dead wiki says 31 which is a lot right with 14 dying of the sickness and 17 related deaths uh died of the sickness patrick um well i won't name all these guys because we don't even probably know charlie uh mr jacobson dr you know s um but then the related deaths like greg the guy who was

[00:50:15] killed by zombie patrick and his guts were hanging out you know um lizzie and mika's dad who was bitten by i think one of the zombies that patrick turned um there were a bunch that were killed that way karen and david killed by you know who uh norris is the guy in this episode that was killed by a zombie son that he just had said was asleep and then i didn't even catch this but there's a woman

[00:50:42] that he accidentally shot that i'm sorry that made me laugh and it shouldn't hope i was like what the fuck right it's horrible he fell over and shot a woman imagine if that was like beth or so well beth almost did die that way actually eventually it really made me laugh because like she didn't seem that ill and she'd come out to help herschel and i was like well there's another survivor that we've just shot so well done sir well done for that um yeah it shouldn't have made me laugh as much as it

[00:51:09] did but when i realized what was happening i was like all right yeah if it was uh you know rick then it wouldn't have been as funny no it would have been like this is a tragedy but i'm like oh what way to go i got accidentally shot like oh dear all right what else what else have i got oh so much stuff this episode uh daryl says that glenn is a tough son bitch and you're a tough son bitch to

[00:51:34] herschel which is iconic um he is asking about carol and i think that we're gonna see rick tell him about that the next time that we have an episode at the prison but i also love that rick is evading telling daryl because he knows it's not going to go down well i got a farm and stuff yeah it's like um go and go farm over here um i actually have a kind of point about that that coded to the episode

[00:52:00] of the next day where we see like the peace the sunlight and the plants michonne's moving the bodies rick splashing his face asking if she needs help glenn's doing well he's breathing on his own now he's stable michonne and herschel kind of optimistically agree to head out together and rick and carl eat some beans or peas um from the farmland maybe i don't know i have no idea um and it's all it's

[00:52:25] peace in the valley and then we see the governor which i'd forgotten terminator music looking a bit like a terminator as well so it's a nice setup for the next act i think um but yeah that was a point i had actually was just the end of the episode oh just when you think it was safe and yeah i yeah

[00:52:48] it's it's kind of weird honestly i'm very much approaching these next two episodes with an open mind and also remembering that i i remember liking them more than most people but i want to even try to set that aside just be like all right let me just see what it's like watching these i'm i am glad we're having two guests on that both seem to appreciate these episodes but um anyway with all

[00:53:14] that we're trying to be open-minded trying to find what can be appreciated about them i do think it's weird that they wait i'm glad they waited this long to bring the governor in so you sort of spend the first few episodes wondering well what happened to him he didn't die is he out there is he like when's he coming back but then they do two episodes of his backstory and then kill him off and he's gone from the story after that it's like i like i'm sure we'll get into this more but i always felt

[00:53:43] this was a really weird decision on the show's part i was like why did we drag the storyline into this season um i think it's fine ultimately because it catalyzes the chaos that gets them out of the prison and determinists but i remember being like why didn't we just kill him at the end of season three like much as i love david morrissey and i think he does a good job i'm just like it seems unnecessary

[00:54:06] maybe if they'd only just done one episode of backstory because yeah we need to sort of not just if he just came back and attacked again then well you wouldn't know where he got the people but also it would seem even more like a repeat of when he attacked before than it already does but um so you need to know how he built up to that but yeah maybe they didn't need to take two episodes for it i don't know we'll see because i don't really remember that much about what happens maybe we'll love them maybe we'll be like oh my god

[00:54:35] i don't know this was amazing we might like them um and the only other note i had is there's a henry glenn says he'll be dead in a couple of hours and he's dead so that's henry number one in the walking dead the first henry how creepy is it when lizzie's like come on henry goodbye oh that was henry i forgot yeah yeah that's so gross um i thought dr s was an amazing zombie

[00:55:01] all shout all all props to caleb that was amazing um i love that rick uh herschel told rick life is always a test and the musical cue is oats in the water by ben howard which i really associate with this uh this season and this episode in particular uh still got a good money shot of the hyundai pulling up to the prison so someone's still doing some uh someone's still doing some product

[00:55:29] that was a very heroic shot yeah and the music it's it's yeah it's always gotta be clean that's part of the rules um the the the music yeah it's really getting into this period of the walking dead where they use modern music a lot more and i think gipple must like that but it adds to the feel somehow of

[00:55:52] what uh um what we're trying to say that walking dead became this big cultural thing one of the most popular shows ever on tv coming into its peak and somehow i think the music is almost like yeah we know we're we're a thing i don't know why i feel like those two things are related the popularity of it and the music but it does seem like that to me like it just it knows that it's popular or something

[00:56:21] i don't know is that weird no i don't even it's like yeah we're making a stick yeah exactly ben harard also feels like very of that era as well like 2013 20 2012 2013 i'm like um this episode was written by channing powell and directed by david boyd i wonder if they would have gotten a taylor swift in there if it was a little bit later a lot of the budget that's true and they tend to like to go

[00:56:50] things that aren't like too popular you know they like they always went for kind of a bluesy country cool stuff yeah yeah folksy sometimes yeah tom waits definitely made some money off the walking dead i bet um i have imdb dive uh is very short this episode the antibiotic bob was giving to members of the group that were sick is enrofloxacin which is a broad spectrum antibiotic used in veterinary

[00:57:17] medicine it is very similar to the broad spectrum antibiotic ciprofloxacin commonly known as cipro which is used for humans and as i mentioned we're on day five two four we're going to be here for a while end of timeline only on the walking dead would you need to be more worried about being around a contagiously sick person after they died as i said only on the walking dead would you bond with your dad while mowing down

[00:57:46] a heap of zombies and have it be a very heartwarming moment if zombies were real i'd totally be taking nico out to the zombie range yep yep

[00:57:57] back it's time for some lister moans groans and grunts

[00:58:36] carly jackson says i am not looking forward to the emotional weight this episode has for the first time i'm not excited to watch an episode oh carly i hope we uh we cheered it up for you yeah i saw that and i almost replied well don't you don't have to watch it yeah just listen to us talk about it flippantly right beth piere says the makeup and acting on maggie and glenn was great they rarely get to do interesting makeup for living people that's a good point it was really

[00:59:06] emotional seeing how rick kept looking at carl realizing he isn't a kid anymore yeah the difference in this show is people come in and probably take off their makeup yeah oh my goodness um becky anderson says the rick and carl scenes were nice herschel scenes were amazing and tugged at my heartstrings amazing acting by scott wilson excellent work by the makeup artists on both the living and the dead i watched this episode while at the endodontist having a root canal done

[00:59:35] oh my god not sure what was more uncomfortable the root canal or seeing the governor again oh becky if the dentist was looking over like what are you watching hearing all the noises like coughing up blood um the people in the stall next door everything okay over there yeah like you're fine it's all good people who are scared to the dentist in the waiting room like oh my god what's gonna happen i'm sure she had earbuds uh megan diveley layman says i don't know why

[01:00:04] i find this so fascinating but this episode had three times more live viewers than the series finale did it's wild to think how much the tv industry and tv watching habits changed in the decade or so span of this show great episode with horror and dread vibes and still crazy to think only a few of these people the alexandria years really saw a massive cast to change over i mean yeah the walking dead lost so

[01:00:31] many viewers uh i think it peaked probably season seven episode one and went downhill from there i think yeah it was oh man what a time what a time um dina says we all got jobs to do even lizzie so it's a damn good thing she didn't take inspiration from tom sawyer who famously did not do his job or glenn would be dead in all seriousness i've seen the plague episode well over a dozen times and

[01:00:59] i still hold my breath in dread that glenn is going to die the scenes are played so well that it seems entirely possible that the outcome could change on the 12th watch i know i did not shed a tear when house herschel sobbed i did not dina next time you watch it if glenn dies let us know how that yeah let us know yeah definitely here's what that's like uh here thanks for writing in as always here

[01:01:22] is claire hi jason lucy and friends it's claire um calling with feedback for walking dead rewatch which i am loving so much loving the rewatch uh loving hearing you guys podcast you guys are so funny i hope you know that um which uh is so great i just love tuning in and listening to what you have to say about the walking dead and life and you guys are just amazing and thank you

[01:01:49] thank you for being there every week so consistently um thanks claire so i i love this episode internment i think herschel is just such a star and i love uh seeing rick and carl work together um wow they just the dynamic they have and i love just rick looking at carl like he's a man and um you know

[01:02:15] it's always trying to strike that balance on this show of of to be violent or not be violent and it kind of can be you know give you a little whiplash a lot of the times but uh this arc with uh rick and carl and rick wanting to protect carl is just i think it's special um i remember watching this episode so my brother is blind and he we we uh watched the walking dead together and um i used

[01:02:42] to call him over the phone and like we'd watch it we'd have to like start it right at the same time on our dvrs and then we'd watch it together and i'd tell him what was happening well this time i was at his house uh uh describing the episode and i remember it was so intense the first time i watched this episode and i could not even sit down like i was i've never had this experience watching a tv show not even on the walking dead maybe a couple other times but this time i just remember like watching

[01:03:10] herschel and watching uh rick and carl it's just like so um intense and i love this episode so anyway um i will let you go i won't talk all day uh but i just want to tell you guys i appreciate you and we all love you so much so uh god bless don't get bit bye i appreciate you too claire

[01:03:34] that is such an interesting i never even considered what it would be like to watch a show as a blind person and have someone there describing it and then to think of what that job would be like with this episode like oh glenn's just like mouth is full of blood and you know it almost i think it'd be kind of fun actually it's not even to throw up oh my lord it's so gross um yeah it's we do a little

[01:04:04] bit of this at work with like how to write good alt text to describe pictures and things like that it's really interesting to start thinking about how you describe things one of the hardest things is you sometimes i'm in meetings where you have to describe yourself and you have to be like i'm a caucasian woman of around this age and i'm always like oh i just look like a children's tv presenter like that's all you need to know yeah it's weird

[01:04:31] matt king says that moment right at the end when the governor reappears that leads into episode six which is effectively the governor of the wilderness years good to see rick and carl getting to work together firstly on the doomed fence poles then on a walker sleigh fest with a couple of machine guns and then after the massacre rick and carl going around finishing off any moving zombies zombies like a

[01:04:55] world war one battlefield the grimes family motto those that slay together stay together great to see scott wilson at his best in the prison herschel's one of the very best characters in all 11 seasons i cannot argue with that he worked miracles to keep glenn alive he was looking doomed there for a while i looked up um pictures of young scott wilson because i remembered he was in the original

[01:05:22] in cold blood he's so cute but he looks skinny right kind of thin yeah it's funny because he looks like i know it sounds really dumb he looks exactly the same but like young and it's just it's really sweet because he had this whole career before we knew him as herschel yeah i was just like oh um nathan eshelman says i took a page out of jason's book and had a conversation with chat gpt

[01:05:45] i asked it what was the significance of herschel asking lizzie to read tom sawyer because when a book is mentioned it usually features themes relevant to the larger story of the show here was a section of the response tom sawyer is a classic story about childhood freedom and the complexities of moral development by having lizzie read it herschel is not only trying to distract her from the harshness of the world around her but also subtly guiding her toward understanding the importance of moral choices

[01:06:12] a theme that becomes crucial later on with lizzie's character lizzie in the earlier part of the series struggles with understanding the boundaries of right and wrong in the post-apocalyptic world so herschel's request can be seen as a last attempt to give her some foundation of the humanity and lessons of the pre-apocalypse world at a more personal level it also reflects herschel's role as a caretaker especially in the absence of other adult figures who might offer this kind of nurturing

[01:06:39] this scene highlights his gentle fatherly nature and his attempt to keep the group from fully succumbing to the brutal realities of their new world it's a moment of hope in an otherwise grim episode especially as herschel's own fate looms larger what herschel doesn't realize is lizzie doesn't need help to live and to be distracted from the horribleness of the zombies because she thinks they're all her pals

[01:07:04] she's gonna be great she'll be just fine um thank you nathan i mean chat gpt continues to astound me and i heard recently there was a podcast that was completely ai and it sounded um alarmingly fine and made you think that we better have fun with this while it lasts because we'll be out of

[01:07:29] job soon honestly it's so creepy yeah all right here is sierra from ontario first time caller i knew a sierra from canada hello lucy and jason this is sierra calling from ontario canada i just figured it was about damn time i called into my favorite podcast um i found you guys in the fall last year

[01:07:57] so it hasn't been very long but i listen to you guys just about every day you guys were my number one podcast on my spot if i wrapped last year nice um but let's start from the beginning so i started watching this show when it first aired uh with my father and i was about nine years old yeah nine or 10 but i think nine and boy did i ever love this show and i you know obviously still do that's why i'm

[01:08:26] calling you but essentially i tapped out um you know when glenn died um little sierra could just not handle that oh i don't blame you but then i spent years procrastinating like to continue watching the show because my parents kept watching and i you know wanted to know what was happening but also didn't want any spoilers that was up until last fall i decided my partner and i were looking for

[01:08:54] a new show him and i had both kind of stopped watching around the same time conveniently enough so we picked it back up together a lot of people stopped at that point we finished it we loved it but um you know as i we were watching i was just super nerding out over the show and needed more content so i found you guys and finished the show finished the you know episodes corresponding with them

[01:09:22] uh with the show and decided after all that i still needed more walking dead content so i went to episode number one and i think i'm on 2 12 right now so yeah big fan big fan um i don't know um i

[01:09:46] actually was gonna talk about the episode that you guys will be reviewing this week but i just couldn't stop my rambling so this is all you get for now and a little yeah zombie sound on the first call you get a gold star canadian zombie sound on the first call

[01:10:10] amazing it's great welcome aboard thank you appreciate that i always love it people find us now after all this time it's really cool i know that's awesome cheers cheers i hope you caught back in and and talk about an episode sometime that'd be cool and i'm so glad you came back to the show yeah yeah because there's so much good stuff after that oh so much

[01:10:35] all right billy thompson says hello hello hope you guys are well well kind of pretty much what a what a performance from scott wilson this episode and he delivers one of my favorite lines i hereby declare we have spaghetti tuesdays every wednesday not exactly what i want herschel to be talking about with a tube down my throat that's allowing me to still be alive but needs must what does that mean needs must that's a saying i don't get but okay yeah it's like oh you've got to do what

[01:11:04] you got to do what you got to do okay yeah we actually had a herschel spaghetti from the walking dead cookbook last week oh i forgot about that and it was pretty good you guys should check it out a few decent recipes in there that have become regulars in our household i think i might actually have a copy of that because we i think we interviewed the author of it at some point oh no way i think so yeah oh i want to make that spaghetti uh he says i forgot how much carnage goes on during this episode

[01:11:30] when everyone starts turning the tense music lizzie casually talking to henry like a pet it was like a horror circus for a few minutes i know although i know glenn doesn't die obviously i was still on the edge of my seat when they're saving him i was completely grossed that moment uh-huh it's just what this show does to me rick definitely goes through a change this episode or has realization i think after what he had to do to carol as a result of that we get the epic scene with the grimes boys

[01:11:56] mowing down zeds hell yeah another great episode and we catch the governor being a peeping tom at the end there so excited for the rest of this season thanks guys bye oh thanks billy thanks billy andrea abarka says hi jason and lucy hope you're having a good day do you know what andrea i am i saw a really cute dog today that's my news for today it was very cute so she bit you knew and i gave it a stroke and it was great um andrea says i didn't get a chance to write in last week so a couple of

[01:12:25] things about indifference first daryl i'm going to be a fangirl and say i very much enjoyed the whole cigarette hanging out of his mouth and i would not mind his sweaty redneck self in my face or watching him get in someone's face to defend me my hero i like his no bullshit conversation with bob and finding the stone it's like a rough soft side and i remember watching it for the first time it just added another layer to my never-ending love for daryl as for carol i think i felt the same way i did

[01:12:51] the first time i was confused by her callousness but i was upset when rick sent her away i remembered thinking are we ever going to see her again i'm worried for daryl i'm excited for superhero carol interminous so moving on to internment a lot of the characters have great moments in this episode but it truly is herschel's episode i loved every moment with him from spaghetti tuesdays and witnesses to the end where he sits in the jail cell and opens the bible but finally lets himself break down that

[01:13:19] scene is so beautiful so human his resilience and calm throughout really just touched my heart and still does now which is why i will not be watching what happens with the governor i will be saying that i will say the first time i watched it happen i literally ran up to my tv and screamed no so i'll be skipping it this time around everyone in this episode brought their a-game and even though it was dark and hard to watch at times it had everything horror fear humanity and humor

[01:13:46] sasha saying herschel was stupid and herschel saying he'll take it as a compliment such a great interaction between these two characters truly a great episode oh i love that andrea yeah that kind of touched me i i was thinking gosh even if we don't get some kind of a um conclusion or reunion story of some kind which i don't know i have my doubts that's ever going to happen i hope we at least get

[01:14:15] the actors coming together yeah for a retrospective you know like they do sometimes and unfortunately scott wilson won't be able to be there but i'm sure they'll talk about him and show clips and stuff like that i just want to see all these guys together again i really miss that imagine if they did a re-watch podcast you know how some shows are doing right that would be hilarious i'd be like no

[01:14:38] that'd be cool i wonder like who would be really good for that it'd probably have to be like melissa mcbride or somebody who's been there for the whole thing yeah oh ross marquand yeah that's who first came to my mind ross he'd be good at that and maybe uh cooper andrews and carrie payton would be awesome for those later oh that would be hysterical i would love that okay don't take her idea if you're listening don't take her idea but also do it because it'd be great come on our podcast

[01:15:07] and do it yeah we'll do a try it all right here's steve brown hello the cast this is steve and this is going to be though and if they do that and then people still say office ladies is better than that i'll be not too happy about that we'll be like you can sit with us you know what it's like yeah walking dead season four episode five internment what are they trying to do put a feeding tube down

[01:15:32] this guy's throat or breathing what i guess to get him air it just seems weird but that look in in rick's eyes at the very beginning whoa and glenn and sasha do not look good oh when that guy just started to wake up and glenn just right through the skull with his knife and oh herschel's never had to do that before and wow that was a long cold open i wasn't lying look at you you're resting

[01:15:56] oh glenn herschel wow okay so rick just told maggie that carol was the one that killed karen and david and that he banished her okay and that was just a hard conversation that rick had to have with carl there i forgot yeah i guess so they've got all the people who are not are not sick are all oh i guess all the that's right all the children and young people are together away from the sick people and then all the sick people are quarantined so that's where glenn and herschel are and wow

[01:16:23] dr caleb is very pragmatic about what needs to be done admitting that he's in the end stages here but wow oh so herschel did that one uh of course he had to cover up the face couldn't do it to his yeah but he got it and there's rick watched him do it oh looks like somebody's waking up as a zombie and their cell door wasn't locked but uh herschel's dealing with sasha so what's gonna

[01:16:49] happen oh and now we got more than one we got uh henry's waking up and the woman who was waking up her she's attacking herschel oh and she's gross oh we're about to lose a few red shirts it looks like the guy that was in the cell just shot the girl and he got bit by a zombie on his arm oh i don't know how creepy it is that lizzie i know she's leading henry away from glenn but still it's creepy oh and now

[01:17:15] uh herschel's getting caleb's guns the shotguns and the oh it's gonna be some fighting now rick and carl or got a gun stash also that they're getting into we're gonna have some gunfight here rick and carl handling them in fours like uh like they know what they're doing good training oh and herschel's got to get the uh the respirator the breather from henry oh looks like maggie got got in and good shot

[01:17:39] oh lizzie playing in the blood with her boot that's uh yeah just more creepiness from this girl good acting though really okay so who so bob and tyrese uh they're back and they brought the medicine and so how quickly is this gonna cure everybody oh and daryl and returns and he doesn't know about carol yet oh and the last shot we have of the governor right outside the prison oh and that

[01:18:06] brings us i remember now where we're going oh well on to next week sorry oh wow uh just hearing steve lay it all like that makes me just realize even more i always say it's a challenge to use zombies well in the series because they're pretty slow and dumb but man this was the

[01:18:30] perfect use of the zombie in an enclosed space where you could have a new zombie at any point because everyone's sick and it's sad too because they're people you know and you're hoping will pull through but then you have to be immediately afraid of them right away like the guy with his son it's just so good horrible horrific but it's like what do you think you're gonna see a tv version of a horror concept this is it like this is how you do it even things like rick being at the fence and one

[01:19:00] grabbing his ankle this is a good job of never letting you relax fully and like oh it's fine it's like no it's not like these things things can escalate at the drop of a hat yep all right karen she says this is a near perfect episode of the walking dead just what i was just saying it goes at a fast clip there are multiple threats plaguing our heroes and the show really utilizes the tight corners and dark hallways of the prison i find myself tearing up several times at herschel's attempt

[01:19:27] to preserve everyone's health and hope if anything i wish the show took out that scene between rick and herschel when the latter quote steinbeck a sad soul can kill quicker than a germ we saw this already when he tried to crack jokes about spaghetti tuesdays or when he took dead bodies away to put them down in secret i was already moved when at the beginning of the episode herschel admitted that he was tired but still put on a happy face for maggie yeah sometimes i guess you're right it you don't

[01:19:55] need to spell it out we can already feel it so it almost takes away from the power of it when you just say exactly what you're doing uh it reminds me of the sack that's fear the walking dead tactic it reminds me of the sacrifices my parents make perhaps suffering silently to spare me any anguish and keep my worries at bay i really love the gentle scenes between herschel and sasha and herschel and glenn too he's a patriarch to all watching this episode now further bums me out that

[01:20:23] we never concluded the series with rick and carl together this is an iconic episode for the father and son pair and i noticed that the closing scenes bookend the season premieres opening scene that is the last scene here also tracks rick's boots coming down the stairs to his garden only this time unlike a verdant field with pig pens and horse stables the ground is littered with walkers as with the opening scenes in 401 carl says verbatim you didn't wake me up oh this is so great but this time the boy

[01:20:52] didn't lack sleep because he was reading comics carl stayed up because he was helping rick defend the prison instead of telling carl that he should do his chores and go to story time rick accepts carl's help in the garden the closing shot is especially poignant rick and carl surveyed the plants that they planted a few days ago this isn't the same garden from the season premiere this isn't the same father and son from then either there's a racking shot that focuses on rick's gun on his belt then a sugar

[01:21:20] snap pea comes into view death and life occupy the same frame and yes dad quote dad everything is going to be okay well not really but that's so great it really sort of highlights how these five episodes are a complete story in a way you know it's so good karen thank you do you ever think that karen's like super smart it's like i do all the fucking time but pretty much all the time yeah i'm like uh

[01:21:49] you know when you're like i wish i wrote that yeah yeah that right now it's so true love it love it all right here is robin robin hey y'all good morning it's me um this bleak bleak bleak episode i had forgotten so much about it probably just blocked it out i guess but the darkness in the prison

[01:22:15] and the the tension is palpable even this time around having even though i forgot a lot having you know an idea of what was going to happen the tension has has your heart in your throat the whole time there they're especially even though i knew that it wasn't the end for heart herschel him hobbling around every time he got himself in a fix you know i thought herschel why are you throwing

[01:22:43] yourself onto that that netting with that walker i know you need the trade bag but oh my god survive doing that um and trying to keep everyone in their cells and i kept thinking i really wish he would just call them rooms and not cells and then the clang of the doors when when he closed them just it just makes your skin crawl there were so many things that i forgot happened in this episode

[01:23:11] um first lizzie being such a complete freak letting that walker although he did have the trade bag letting him out and calling him come on henry come on henry come on henry um i just was so shocked by that i forgot about it and i was also shocked by the fact that nobody chastised her for that or herschel does say you know i told you to stay put but um i i guess and i guess they're just

[01:23:38] too stunned and then at the end when she rubs her boot through the blood and and gore um from when glenn was choking to death uh just so sickening um i had forgotten that well she saved glenn right or yeah she did she took him she dragged she guided him away from glenn is my understanding yeah so i think she might have saved his life there the branch one of the branches they were using to

[01:24:05] shore up the fence broke and then you know rick giving carl instructions on how to use the gun as they're running and carl totally understanding and being able to to do it and then them you know just shooting all those walkers and then the the scene of carl at the end just going around and double checking and and using that spear um to put into their brains was just

[01:24:32] just uh poor carl i love him so much and i just feel so bad for him um it's just so many things really um and then at the end of course uh you know when herschel is trying to read his bible and can't and cries i'm not well i'm a little bit of a crier but i i always i cried so hard for him he he just um he's just he breaks your heart he's so good and so pure and um and i i do recommend if

[01:25:01] you have not seen the movie in cold blood um it's the movie that put scott walker on the map uh way back when with robert blake about the murders in kansas based on uh truman capote's book if you haven't seen that movie you really should um he is he's uh well he's mind-blowing in that movie um and i know that's not particularly descriptive of his acting but he blows your mind in that movie um

[01:25:28] anyway i'm sure we'll talk again soon um looking forward to hearing what you all have to say about it talk to you later but oh by the way i don't think that um rick had the right to unilaterally decide to banish carol any more than she had the right to unilaterally decide to kill karen and david so there's that okay bye y'all we'll talk soon bye i love that you loved that and at the end rob and

[01:25:54] you're like just you know i think this oh i love it it's great totally i mean some serial killer comes into your house and kills your family and then you decide to take them you know kill them and someone says you didn't have the right to kill them any more than they had a right to kill your family it's different you know it's different he's afraid for his kids that's what he said i did this for me

[01:26:18] not for anyone else so that's what i'll say to that i stand with robin no i mean i did say that was the one thing that i was sort of on the fence about that he didn't confer with anyone else i am i've read in cold blood it's one of my favorite books i've not seen it and i really do want to see it now so yeah i'm gonna check it out her message also made me think about um glenn and how good he

[01:26:43] was in this and steven young and how they haven't used glenn that much this season and he probably did more in this episode if i remember right than he has in most and i remember people asking steven young a lot about oh how what was it like to play sick i can't remember what he said though but um yeah i just feel like the show needs to use him more and i think that's one reason why steven young

[01:27:08] didn't mind leaving when he did because he felt underutilized it's definitely why jesus left as well yeah tom paine jesus not the real jesus not the real jesus he did not leave because he felt he was being underused um that would be a rewrite that would be a massive retcon um so josie bone ectil says i had forgotten most of this episode end of comment no i'm joking and she says i love the

[01:27:35] scenes of rick and carl carl has grown up a lot and in his own ways rick is maturing a lot as well i love seeing them as a father and son duo and that scene of them taking out the mini horde was beautiful lizzie the one time she does something right so glad she was able to get that walker away from glenn even in her own twisted way even in her twisted way i love how daryl comes back and of course is instantly worried about his person i know he doesn't take this news well maggie's reaction

[01:28:00] was one i didn't quite remember but i appreciated how rick asked her what she would do you could sense he still didn't feel great about what he did but for the overall safety of his children and other family knew it was what's best i love watching rick's inner turmoil play out he can convey so much with just his facial expression we see him in awe of carl many times in this episode as well as clearly struggling with his own necessary actions

[01:28:25] sasha plays sick and dying so well how can someone so beautiful look so horrid at the same time sonequa you are phenomenal also a little side note can anyone else see the heat between rick and michonne i don't think i noticed it too much at the first watch though but i love their flirty banter michonne is just really that girl flame emoji um this episode was truly one of horror i was anxious watching and i believe this is my third watch through of the show at this point that last

[01:28:52] frame with the governor watching rick and carl just guts me it is a parallel to the shot of andrea about to call out before about to call out to them before getting attacked from behind horrible and poetic knowing what is to come makes each scene at the prison so much harder to watch seeing the huge carts of guns and ammo for example make me want to cry out for a future group who are grasping at straws for the basic necessities again fucking governor that fucking fuck i'm not looking forward

[01:29:19] to the governor-centric episodes that lie ahead but i am eager to hear y'all's perspectives and everyone else's feedback bye bye josie bye josie bye okay one more call from renee renee hi guys this is renee here i was happy to see the fact that rick was still grappling with the fact that he vanished his day one i was happy to see that he was still struggling with that i love grandpa herschel but i just

[01:29:48] cannot believe that he didn't think about wearing gloves when he was dealing with all of those sick people i love that herschel read the bible verse before him and glenn took out that guy before he turned to a walker i'm assuming he read a bible verse because he had the bible in his hand herschel has that grandpa authority that you know you have no choice but to respect he's compassionate and loving but he

[01:30:17] is also stern you know he lets you know when you need to you know just reel it back i love rick and carl's relationship but it was mad at everybody it's like sir you are the one advantage carol calm your nerves child child did you guys see that toilet father god please don't ever let an apocalypse happen in real

[01:30:45] life because i'm telling you i'm gonna be dead the very the very first day i hate public bathrooms like i despise them i think about this child rick grimes look fine even when he has dirt and blood all over him but again where is the gloves when they was putting the wood on the fence it's like why don't y'all have any gloves this is a prison i know they have construction gloves and it will prevent you guys from getting

[01:31:15] splinters in your hand and call aka rick jr he was firing off those shots at those ugly ass zombies just like his daddy when i tell y'all those zombies was showing up ugly in this episode they were real ugly baby do not play with maggie ree she went through that window like a gangster yes she did okay and this

[01:31:41] is the part i'm gonna get sad about when glenn was choking on his own blood it made me feel real sad because my little brother he died from the hantavirus and what the hantavirus does it causes you to your body fills up with fluid and the doctor said that the more they pump the fluid out of my little

[01:32:04] brother the more the fluid build up my little brother was in the military military he was stationed in arizona he came here to atlanta to be with me for two weeks before he got ready to be deployed and he went to new mexico and they were saying that maybe when he was cleaning out his barracks and stuff and you know getting his stuff together that maybe some droppings some rodent droppings because

[01:32:31] it comes from rodents from rats and mice and stuff and maybe he inhaled it or maybe it came from maybe a soda can or something that he didn't wipe off they can't pinpoint exactly where it came from but my little brother was healthy when he left me and i my my mother called me on a saturday and she said that they called and told her that poochie was not feeling good the day before

[01:33:00] and that he went to the hospital and that he wasn't doing good so we was trying to book a flight so that we can go up there and it's like literally 10 minutes later my mom called me back and told me that my little brother was gone i mean just that quick it took him out just that quick my little

[01:33:22] brother was the sweetest nicest most kindest young man ever he was only 27 years old but that's been like 10 years ago you know of course that still bothers me i'm never going to forget him never ever but you know he's resting in the arms of jesus right now i know he's in a better place and you know he he is like i said just sad so just seeing that kind of brought back all of those memories and then seeing

[01:33:50] hershel cry also broke my heart heart and it's like at the end oh lord oh my goodness philip is back oh why yeah all righty i will talk to you guys later peace and love bye yeah i'm sorry to hear about that renee that's awful and you know that's what i'm saying kind of at the top that this sickness is more relatable so it stood out more to me too and it almost makes me think

[01:34:20] in a way even though the walking dead is filled with such horror that it's escapism in a way because it's zombies that aren't real and this episode is not as much like that anyway i'm so sorry to hear that renee yeah renee i'm so sorry that happened and i'm glad that your brother is at peace now um i think we don't realize often how fragile life is i know that sounds really weird but i think like

[01:34:46] one of the things in the walking dead that you know something that may not bother you like i was thinking about jenny getting bitten by that dog jason like in a world without antibiotics and places that you can go to get your wooden treated and get the appropriate things you can die really easily yeah rabies shots for dogs it's it's it's intense and um i think sometimes

[01:35:13] when things happen like someone dies suddenly you just get this this realization of how fragile it all is it's it's it's it's hard to fathom yeah we don't usually give out assignments but our assignment for this week is to go and hug someone that you love yeah tell someone you love that you love them

[01:35:37] all right that is our show episode 622 thanks so much for listening everybody um we you know we used to ask for reviews and i haven't in a while and we haven't gotten any while so if you're enjoying the rewatch and you feel so inclined head over to apple podcasts or maybe spotify and search us up and give us a rating or review be fun to see some new reviews in there from you guys who are listening

[01:36:03] right now that'd be great we love it i particularly enjoy when people talk about um my laugh so if you'd like to add how horrible it is that would be wonderful yeah just whichever way you want to weigh in on that did i tell you my niece told me i had a horrible laugh oh yeah she's younger right she's four i was like oh i was like do you listen to the podcast like come on uh that's just a podcasting wide epidemic

[01:36:32] of people complaining about female podcaster laughs you know girls they want to have fun i love my niece he's allowed she's allowed so next we'll be covering everyone's favorite the walking dead season 4 episode 6 live baits and we'll have nathan eshelman on who is a fan of that episode and i think he's been like rereading some of the walking dead governor novels in preparation so really looking

[01:37:02] forward to having him on and talking about it i did that last year i'm really looking forward to chatting with nathan he's amazing also i did um re yeah i reread some of the governor stuff last year so i'm excited to talk about that um if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com and while you're there please check out our other

[01:37:27] podcasts like check out welcome to the apocalypse they've been putting out new episodes lately and they i had asked us all for lions that we wanted them to throw in and they've been throwing them in and it's really fun so that's our zombie improv podcast with randy and jenny and rob we're uh we're going on a drive tomorrow and i'm lining up those episodes i'm excited uh this episode is made possible i mean

[01:37:56] that by patreon supporters like teddy bear who pledged their support at patreon.com slash jason cabassi so thank you to teddy for doing that thanks teddy all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit matt massajos to get jar jar do you