624: Silo (S2E7-10)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Huh. How about this? We'll figure it out eventually ourselves, right? So we don't need him. One less eater. My name's Jimmy Conroy. Move! When you were 12. I said move! When the rebellion- You were 12- Stop! Stop! Please! Just listen! He was 12, okay? When the rebellion happened. 12!

[00:00:31] He wasn't old enough to be able to be responsible for all of this. You were 12. Jimmy was a coward. Jimmy! Jimmy hid behind a door! Open the damn door, Shannon! While the sheriff held a gun to his father's head. All he had to do was open the door and he didn't so- Does that sound like the son of a hero to you? Russell would've been ashamed to have a son like that. No, you're wrong.

[00:01:00] He would've been so proud because you did what he asked you to do. Don't open the door, don't let anyone in. That's what he said to you, right? Yeah. Yeah, do you know why he said that? Because he wanted to save the law. He wanted to save the silo. No, Jimmy. He wanted you to live. Come just like- Their parents wanted them to live. Father was protecting.

[00:01:57] Hey, Zed Heads. Welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Veronica. And I'm Emily. And this is the Cast of Us episode 624. In this episode, we're covering episodes 7 through 10 of season 2 of the Apple TV Plus sci-fi dystopian mystery, Silo. Silo. It's our second time doing this because the algorithm sabotaged our tech. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:02:22] I fucked up and forgot to record the zoom last time. First podcast I've lost in 14 and a half years of doing this. Not too bad. So, I thought I could go forever, but I guess not. But, so we'll see. We'll see how this goes. We covered season 1 of Silo in two parts back in 2023 when it aired. And a few weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago now, we did season 2, episode 1 through 6.

[00:02:53] And I'll put links in the show notes for all those. And now we're going to finish up season 2 and we'll be all caught up with the series. They said they're going to do four seasons. So, we're halfway through. For this podcast, we will presume that you're all caught up with the show or you don't care about spoilers because we'll be fully spoiling everything that's happened so far. But not the books. We'll try. Amelie and I have not read the books. Veronica has.

[00:03:20] But we've been trying not to spoil anything in the books because I don't want to know what's in the books. So, we will do what we did for, you know, how we've done this show. Cover a whole bunch of episodes at once. So, we'll read a synopsis of each one and say a few thoughts about it. Maybe, you know, 15 minutes or so on each episode. We decided to kind of divide them up. So, Amelie, you've got the first one, episode 7. Yeah. Episode 7, The Dive.

[00:03:49] Bernard introduces Lucas to the legacy, an advanced computer behind a vault that contains all their secret knowledge and records. Though the origins of the silo beyond 352 years earlier remain lost. Using the legacy to help with his research, Lucas suspects the letter uses a book cipher. Mechanical sends paper messages to the upper levels, encouraging citizens to ask what IT has been hiding from them before shutting down the power in the silo.

[00:04:19] Revealing that IT has their own independent power source. Bernard clashes with Sims, who is still angry about being set aside. Sims confronts Camille about her actions. She explains that she wants to play both sides for their safety and promises not to hide anything from him again. Yeah, right. Billings and Hank follow up on spies who are trying to sow discord in mechanical.

[00:04:45] Walker worries about Kerala and briefly switches on her IT camera to send a message up top, which Bernard receives. In silo 17, Juliet performs a deep dive to repair the water pump for Solo and almost drowns down when her air supply is cut. After surfacing, Juliet finds evidence of a struggle and suspects there is someone else in the silo.

[00:05:14] So, Amelie, you drive. What should we talk about? Well, there's a few different points that are standing out. The first one, I think for me is we see how authority is more and more divided in that episode and how the people are more and more united. For example, like Bernard is just like losing it more and more. And he's running out of moves. He can't predict things anymore.

[00:05:44] His network is like falling apart. He loses the sheriff. The deputies are asking questions. You know, when he gets them all together and he says like, oh, mechanical is like just launched an assault on us, which is like ridiculous. And you can just see on the deputies face faces that people are doubting, you know what he's saying. Mm hmm. There's signs of rebellion.

[00:06:15] Yeah. Yeah. Throughout the episodes, even the Sims were sort of part of the authority. You know, they're playing both sides. Um, Bernard and Sim are in conflict. Um, Sim won't give him the warrant, the search warrant that he asks for, um, to search the supply department. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:06:37] And I love that when he's like, you know, just, yeah, give me what I said and rubber stamp it and shut the hell up or whatever. I thought that was pretty bold to just flat out say, you know, the power you have over me is only on paper and you're actually my bitch now do it. And then he's like, nope. Yeah. And he says like, oh, I gave you this job so I don't have to talk to you or see you ever anymore. Mm hmm. Um, so he's kind of upset about that. He's flat out.

[00:07:07] The thing about Bernard that's interesting to me is because watching through this season, it seems pretty clear that he thinks he has to do what he's doing, which is mainly keeping everyone in the dark in order to keep them all safe. Because he thinks if they know too much, then they'll try to get out and kill themselves or whatever. Right. Right.

[00:07:33] So it seems like his intention, excuse me, his intention is to try to keep order and safety, keep things calm and peaceful. Right. Right. Not, not to, but, but he's also an asshole because he loves the power and he, he doesn't mind making people suffer in furtherance of that larger goal.

[00:08:00] And in fact, he seems to kind of get off on it sometimes when he's, he's got so smug about everything, you know? So he's definitely a flawed character in a lot of ways. I mean, I think it's flawed also to think that you need to keep everyone in the dark and that's the best way to keep peace. But the interesting part is that he really does seem to want to try to keep everyone alive and at peace. I mean, he does, but he's still an asshole and he kind of enjoys that. But, um, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

[00:08:30] You know, you can just tell and maybe, you know, like being the only one in the known for so long, you know, like the only one to know what, well, I don't think Bernard knows everything that's going on. Like we kind of learned that, uh, further down the road, but that would make you really lonely, you know, and maybe less of a good person. Also, I mean, maybe there's a parallel.

[00:08:54] I don't know if it's intentional with like today we have these technocrats, you know, um, I don't want to get too political, but you know, just looking at what Elon Musk is doing right now. He's, uh, taking, you know, just sort of cleaning out all these agencies, however you feel about that. Uh, it's a person who is in tech, who he's the richest man in the world and seems to think that he has all the answers to what needs to be done for our society.

[00:09:24] And is now implementing that. It seems like there's a parallel there with Bernard, you know, just someone who thinks, okay, I'm the one who knows everything. Not, not everyone else needs to know, you know, just it's okay. I've got it kind of an attitude. Right. I see that.

[00:09:40] But I think for me, I feel like Bernard is one additional, like, I think there's a distinction from that in that I sort of see the information that Bernard is following. He's almost like a, he's not the cult leader. He's like a step down and he really believes it, you know? And so it's like, yeah, I agree.

[00:10:06] I think he's kind of an asshole and he does get off on like the power plays, but I also think he wholeheartedly believes that all the steps he's taking, like the big major plays he's making are truly what he has to do for the survival of the silo. Like, and I think to me, that's the distinction is like, he's grown up in this, all of them have grown up in this silo. Their perception of the world is so limited.

[00:10:34] It would be so much easier for them all to kind of fall into this like group think that they have where they follow the pact and Bernard follows the legacy because that's all they've really known. And so I think to me, I'm a little bit softer on Bernard's character just because I feel like he's himself almost been hoodwinked into following this, this pattern. Like he's actually a victim of, of the larger system, I guess.

[00:11:03] And doesn't even like, he can't make a different choice or he doesn't think he can make a different choice. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, he, yeah, he's still, um, the fact that he has this book, it's called the legacy. Is that what it is? The one that he, I forgot. No, the order, the order. Thank you. The order. I called it. He, he, yeah. Like he's following that and thinks he has to. So yeah, I guess he's not putting himself as the highest power. He's putting that as the highest power.

[00:11:33] Yeah. And it's not that like he knows best. It's that he's following precisely the rule book that has been laid out before him. And so I think like, I don't disagree that he's like, he definitely is an asshole. And I think there could be a better iteration of him like leading. But I think that person would still have become the villain in this uprising scenario because they literally can't tell anyone.

[00:12:01] Like, I'm assuming. What the rules say. Yeah. So I don't know. I think I'm a little bit softer on him for that, but I don't agree with his small interactions with people that are very asshole-ish. Because he threatens, you know, I mean, it's okay to touch on later episodes with Walker's ex-wife that she's gonna suffer if you don't do what I want.

[00:12:27] And then in the end, in the very last episode when he thinks he's gotten one over on her and he's meeting with her. And then she says, oh, actually, we were working against you and something's gonna happen in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then nothing happens. And he just starts busting out laughing. What did you think was gonna happen? And you just want to punch him in the face. That's so evil. Yeah. And like the time that he's like, okay, you get to see Marta if you agree, you know, to work for me, like undercover kind of thing.

[00:12:53] And then he brings her to see Marta, but only like opens the window and says like, there you go. You saw her. Yeah. But I think, but I like what you're saying, Veronica, because I've probably been saying this way too much lately, but it's so important to try to look past how you feel about someone's personality. And look at what they're doing and why. And I think what he's doing and why is that he really does want to try to keep everyone safe.

[00:13:22] I think it's misguided, but you can sort of understand it. And if he was a nicer guy, then probably more people watching would be on board with what he was doing, you know? And this is jumping ahead, but I was trying to remember, and I don't feel like I ever felt very clear on this. And maybe we talked about it the last time we talked about it. But at the end, like it seems like Bernard already knew about the fail safe. Like that seems like that's part of the IT.

[00:13:52] Yeah. The safeguard that that's part of IT's knowledge. Like that wasn't the thing that they learned from. The algorithm or whatever. The algorithm. Yeah. There was some other aspect to it. So literally, like it's not even that Bernard is afraid of them. It's not that he's afraid of them breaking out and discovering the lie because of the inherent lie.

[00:14:19] It's like he knows they'll all like imminently die sort of regardless. Right. You think. So I think it's even more severe. I think so. Because when people find out stuff. I think so, because the sheriff and the other silo knew it in the flashback. That's a good point. Yeah.

[00:14:43] And Avinash said he knew about it when AI asked him about it the first time and then went on to tell him something that we didn't hear. So. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like Bernard knows for certain that it is absolute doom for the silo. Okay. And he has the knowledge of what happened, at least somewhat of what happened in 17. Right.

[00:15:02] So that means by the ends, because this whole season is, you know, Bernard's kind of the conflict or at least a big part of it is Bernard trying to keep everybody from learning stuff and people getting fed up, pissed off at a rebellion starting. And then by the ends, he's like, just when they win, they blow up that bridge and they win. He's given up.

[00:15:28] But now we're not going to see, or we don't get to see what happens next. Like who's in charge. I think it's going to be Sims, but are they going to now sort of try to be more forthcoming with the information? Because that's kind of what the rebellion was about. So you would think so. And then, yeah, they're going to be in danger of being gassed. Oh, we're really skipping ahead here. But then. Sorry. No, it's okay. But then Juliet knows how to supposedly stop the gas from coming through. So you'd think.

[00:15:58] But yeah, I never thought about what you just said, where maybe Bernard just thinks not only would people knowing more cause them maybe to want to go outside, which is kind of what you think is the danger because of the opening of this season where the other silo, everybody went outside. But maybe it's just that if people know stuff, then the algorithm will send the gas through or the people, some people somewhere else in the other silo or something like that. Right. That's what you're saying.

[00:16:26] That's what I am thinking from how things have been set up. And I really don't remember. Like, things have diverged quite a bit from the book. Like, there are core features that are the same, but I really don't remember. Like, I'm genuinely questioning this. I'm not pretending. I don't know. So. Cool. What else, Amelie? Well, back to the division of authority, you also have, like, the Sims themselves that are divided.

[00:16:56] And Camille, that keeps lying to Robert about, like, helping Nux and Shirley. And then she goes, like, behind his back to Edmondson. So, he will give information to Robert about Lucas's mission. And also about people being more united. You have the whole thing with Meave, like the woman in the cafeteria that poisoned the food.

[00:17:23] Who also planted a note saying that they had to kill Nux and Shirley. Because she was being blackmailed. She was being blackmailed, yeah. Because her mom was in medical. And they told her, like, we're going to kill your mom if you don't do what we say. But the response from the down deep to that is not to, like, kill her or make her suffer. But, you know, they're like, okay, you know, we're going to make sure your mom is okay.

[00:17:52] We're going to give you tough jobs for a while. But we don't, we will not turn against each other. Which is different from what's going on with, like, higher authority. One thing I thought interesting about that, actually, was that when she says, oh, yeah, I was the one who planted the note.

[00:18:16] They told me that it would make people upset and turn against each other. And I thought it was kind of interesting, sort of, like, you know, fear of walking dead. Like, how they just really explain everything. You know, like, oh, this is, this is the big master plan from the bad guy. And, or, you know what, as you're saying that, I almost think that could have been a very clever ploy on her part.

[00:18:42] Like, they told me to point this, plant this note because they thought it would make us turn against each other. But we're going to prove them wrong, right? We're not going to turn against each other. Oh, yeah. Maybe. Maybe. But, yeah, I thought it was kind of weird. Yeah. For the, yeah. To tell them their whole reasoning. One thing I really liked about that scene, and I think it hits along the same things that you're talking about, Amelie,

[00:19:07] is just how it really showed how Hank, the sheriff deputy down there, really knew the people of the Down Deep and was indeed, you know, sort of one of them, part of that family. Because he, you know, he talked the crowd down, and he's the one who knew that Maeve was likely being blackmailed because of her sick mother. And I thought that was kind of just another, I've really enjoyed this season showing the way that it is like a family in the Down Deep. Yeah.

[00:19:37] And sort of seeing even someone who's a bit of an outsider because he's a sheriff deputy still is sort of part of that family. And obviously that continues throughout, you know, the rest of these episodes as he sort of joins the cause more and more. But I don't know. I loved, I really liked that. I think Hank's a great character. Yeah. He's a good guy. And it's nice to see him and Billings also, like, working well together and Billings evolving through that too.

[00:20:05] Like, because he's really by the book, the pack in this case. But while they're investigating, like, you know, who poisoned the food and, like, everything that's happening, you can see that Billings, you know, he understands that things are corrupted and authority is corrupted and starting to, like, take the side of the people more and more.

[00:20:28] Yeah, watching, just binging through these episodes, you really see the progression of everybody's working on Billings downstairs. They're like, we need your help. Like, surely. What can you do for us? And he's like, like you said, buy the book. And then when his wife learns that he kept that page that showed a picture of what it looked like outside before in the before times.

[00:20:52] And then, you know, she's sort of, well, I guess we'll talk about that next time. But anyway, he decides that, yeah, things are corrupt. And he said at some point the line, the line moved. I didn't move.

[00:21:09] And so then he decides to fight back and you just see the progression of the sheriff's department sort of going to the other side and deciding to help the rebels too. And him sending some message upstairs is really, I guess, it seems like that's what pushed that over the edge. If he hadn't done that, then they wouldn't have helped.

[00:21:36] So I think that storyline is a lot easier to feel like you have a handle on it if you binge them all. Because you can just see he has like a couple minutes each episode where he's like sort of getting closer and closer being like, all right, I'll help you guys. But I mean, he's not even like he's just trying to apply the law by doing what he's doing.

[00:22:00] And it's not like he wants to take sides, but by doing the right thing, by following the law, then he realizes that, you know, he opens his eyes and realizes that everything's corrupted, you know? Yeah. Even now, like in our government, you know, there's talk, like I mentioned that thing about Elon Musk going in and taking over the whole agency so he can root it out and fire everyone and stuff.

[00:22:24] And there's talk of people who don't like that saying, well, the law sometimes says that if someone even higher up asks you to do something that's against the law, then you should refuse, you know? So it's kind of like he's put in that position. Yeah. One other thing I thought we should maybe cover for this episode was the legacy itself. It's the first time that we see inside the vault when Bernard takes Lucas.

[00:22:53] He's like, OK, I got to show you something because he wants him to be able to look into the legacy to resolve, to solve the code, Quinn's code. Mm-hmm. I mean, just the colors inside the vault or like it's so warm as opposed to the rest of the silo that is like super cold and it kind of evokes, you know, life on earth. Culture. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:20] And I actually took time, like paused it and I tried to figure out, like figure out what was in the vault, like what I could see. You get like many paintings, you have ancient vases, cultures, fossils on the walls. There's even a little Tyrex reproduction above the door. I don't know if you noticed that. A what? A Tyrex, like a dinosaur. Oh, T-Rex. T-Rex. Oh, T-Rex. Sorry. Excuse my French.

[00:23:50] Also, there's one shot behind Bernard that you see the birth of Venus, that painting from the Italian painter Botticelli. Did you notice that? I think the T-Rex sort of fits in because we think, oh, that's extinct, but a lot of the other stuff is sort of extinct too. Just fossils. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:14] But yeah, about like the birth of Venus, I looked it up and the painting symbolizes the rebirth of civilization and new hope. Geopolitical, social and cultural shift, which occurred after the Middle Ages turmoil. So I thought it was kind of interesting in parallel to what's going on with the silo. Yeah, no, that's cool. And we also see one last thing, the sunflowers from Vincent van Gogh. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:43] And that painting symbolizes apparently gratitude. So I thought it was interesting that they just supposed like these two paintings in there. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I wonder if they'll come out of the silo and try to rebuild, repopulate the earth at the end. Hope so. It makes you wonder, like, whoever built the silo, like, are these all replicas of those paintings?

[00:25:11] Or did someone squirrel away all the originals? And so, like, are these same paintings inside silo 17s? Like, when we get a look in there? Vault. Like, is it the same paintings? Is it different? I don't know. Just sort of interesting. Well, these two were, sorry, they're replicas because I looked at the size and it doesn't fit what was on the wall. So it's possible that they have the same replicas in 17.

[00:25:40] But also in Solo's vault, like, you know, he painted, like, over stuff. That's true. His is, like, very different. But, yeah, these were replicas, at least these ones. And I know that I noticed that one clock, a red and white clock that they have in 18, Solo has the same in his silo, in his vault. So. Cool. I have one last thing about this episode.

[00:26:10] This whole thing about Bernard saying that Sim is not curious enough. And that's why it didn't make him as a shadow. And I thought that was interesting because, you know, how much curiosity is good and how much are you supposed to have? And by Bernard, like, you know, taking his shadow to see the legacy. Like, wouldn't you expect someone to be, like, more curious and wanting to see the world?

[00:26:37] And it's kind of a dangerous move, I guess. I don't even know. Yeah. Like, I was puzzled by that. Like, maybe it was just a bullshit dig on Sims. Because I think they don't want anyone to be curious, including the shadow. Well, that's just it. And even Bernard himself wasn't curious about what was in the contents of the hard drive that he got until he needed the information.

[00:27:07] Like, he didn't look at it. So, that was a weird thing to say. Yeah, but that turns around. Like, does that make Bernard a little bit of a rebel? Because then he is curious about what's on the hard drive? Well, he only is curious. Well, yeah, I guess we still don't really understand why it's so important for him to understand this code, right? That Salvador Quinn had.

[00:27:34] Because Salvador Quinn stopped the last uprising. And so, I bet Bernard, after Juliet didn't clean, he's terrified. Sorry, this literally, like, just aligned for me to understand. Yeah. He's now terrified, and he's thinking maybe there's something, some part of that code that can help him figure out how to save things. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

[00:27:57] Well, he also tells Lucas that he thinks that what's in the code implies that there's a bigger problem than the rebellion itself. Yeah. And that's why he wants to know, so. But maybe, yeah, maybe he's just scared they're nearing the end of things, period. Yeah, I think he wants to know. Because when the person doesn't clean, it means all-out war. Yeah. So.

[00:28:21] He's just still doing the same thing that he always does, which is trying to keep everybody in the silo and not dead. Anything else? That pretty much sums it, beside the fact that we saw the Pez again. I was happy to see it. Yeah. Sim's son? Yeah. It's got the Pez. The magic Pez. Yeah. Okay. Season 2, Episode 8, The Book of Quinn. Juliet gets the bends.

[00:28:52] Oh, yeah. We didn't really talk about it, but she went, well, I guess it was in the synopsis, but she went down to fix the water pump in Solo's silo. Juliet gets the bends and has to dive again to recover. After surfacing, she's confronted by a figure who shoots her with an arrow and threatens to kill her. Juliet searches for her attacker and finds three young people.

[00:29:13] In silo 18, Lucas tracks down Quinn's descendants and learns that they gave Quinn's copy of the pact to Meadows, Judge Meadows, years earlier. Bernard tells Lucas that Quinn destroyed the records 140 years ago and drugged the water to make citizens forget their history to stop the rebellions that had been occurring every 20 years. Using Quinn's copy of the pact, Lucas starts decoding Quinn's letter.

[00:29:41] Sims, with Camille's help, learns that Lucas is investigating for Bernard. Walker meets Bernard and agrees to be his informant in order to save Carla. Consequently, a group of mechanical who break into supply are arrested by raiders. Billings' wife Kathleen learns that Billings saved a page of a picture book from the before times and demands to see it.

[00:30:07] So, Juliet, I think a lot of her stuff is more about the spectacle and the thrill of it. And it is thrilling and beautiful. I like watching her underwater. I know that sounds a little weird, but the way her hair splays out and everything. And what else? The way that Rebecca Ferguson portrayed her getting the bends was, I thought she did such a great job.

[00:30:35] I could almost feel it myself, you know? And this is when divers come up too deeply and then nitrogen from the breathing gas dissolves into the body due to pressure underwater. But if the pressure decreases too rapidly, the nitrogen forms bubbles in the bloodstream. And symptoms can be joint and muscle pain, fatigue, skin rash.

[00:31:02] Severe cases can be neurological issues like dizziness, confusion, paralysis, numbness, respiratory distress, chest pain, and even death. If the bubbles form in vital organs like the heart, lungs, brain, or spinal cord, it can be sort of random. Like the same person could dive two different times and have two different levels of impact.

[00:31:24] Treatment can include oxygen therapy and in some cases time in a hyperbaric chamber, which is a high-pressure chamber where the person breathes 100% oxygen, which basically simulates going back in underwater, which is what Juliet did as Solo had conveniently told her she might need to do. And I read that they built a special tank set for this. An article on Screen Rant says,

[00:31:52] Behind the scenes there are a lot of very important technical aspects that allow for filming in the underwater set, such as waterproof camera equipment, the crew that dives with Rebecca Ferguson, waterproof communication devices, and more that keep Ferguson safe while filming. It said that she would do two to four hours a day of water stuff sometimes, being underwater, filming only like 15 to 20 minutes at a time. And she had to kind of prepare herself mentally and physically by, you know,

[00:32:22] remaining calm and stretching and things like that. And also she had weight belts so she wouldn't just float up to the top. Right. I feel like that would be pretty scary. Maybe you'd get used to it after a while. I'm like, I think like death by drowning is one of the things that scares me the most. I think I couldn't swim as a little kid. So maybe that has amped up, but all of these scenes of her almost drowning, I just like absolutely terrifying to me.

[00:32:52] And then it makes sense how she's been, what I think is just fantastic acting on her own with no one else to play off so often this season. But I mean, she probably really could get her adrenaline and fear amped up just having to be underwater in those acting situations too. Like, I wonder if she could tap into some genuine fear doing that.

[00:33:17] I would not want to while I was underwater because you might freak out, you know, that's what I think of. I was going to say that I read that she's, she actually, she's a diver in real life. Oh, wow. She dives and so is the author of the books. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So, but still, it's pretty scary. And just like, you know, the character of Juliet, it really shows how badass she is and resourceful.

[00:33:47] Imagine diving like this deep and not knowing like how to swim. That's insane, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And if you would have told me ahead of time that Juliet was going to be separate this whole season, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'd have liked that idea, but I think it personally, I think it worked really well because we saw her already being detective all of season one.

[00:34:11] So now we get to see her more and it almost felt like a diehard or, you know, like an action movie thing. And her interactions with Solo were all great. That also was a huge factor in why I loved it because they played against each other so well, I thought. Yeah, they were fantastic. People on all fronts are trying to get Sheriff Billings to help Shirley and he's wanting to follow due process.

[00:34:40] And he says, if we don't respect the order of things, then it all falls apart. The pact is what we have. Those are the words we live by. And I was thinking, you know, the pact is like our constitution. Like we hold it very high and it's important. And then when we recorded this before, one of you guys said it's also like kind of a combination of constitution and the Bible for these guys, which makes it even more of a like holy thing. But then she says there comes a time you need to stand up and call bullshit.

[00:35:10] And she's right. And it like I try to walk that line where I don't want to just accept things without questioning or thinking about them, including laws, certain laws like speeding. You know, I'll go five miles above the speed limit. But also understand and accept that we do need laws and structure in order to have a functioning society. So there's a middle ground there, I guess.

[00:35:37] But at some point when if things become too impressive, then it's time to fight back. Yeah, for sure. I think it's just and, you know, they have such a limitation on the knowledge they have access to in this show. But really, I think one of the themes is that the more dangerous thing is just and by dangerous, actually advantageous, because in our current world, we're not risking going out into a, you know.

[00:36:08] Toxic air where we're going to die if we discover the truth. But, you know, it's just having the curiosity to ask the questions, to talk about it. That is actually really powerful. And what is so important for, you know, Bernard and the other leaders to try to suppress. It's not just the knowledge. It's the curiosity. It's so weird. Yeah.

[00:36:34] I feel like we're in the same place in a way as the denizens of the silo, because there's a lot we still don't know. We don't know why they're not allowed to know certain things. Why is there a safeguard in place in case they know? And, of course, we want to know. So that's how we can identify with them. We're curious, too.

[00:36:58] But, yeah, I'm curious when we do find out what it is that they're not allowed to know and why it's so important. Will we agree or will we not agree? We'll be like, no, that's stupid. They shouldn't have been threatened with death just because, just for knowing that, whatever it is. I'm still dying to know. I don't know.

[00:37:22] Last time it just sort of, I had this thought that, because I keep thinking about the end when Bernard, when Lucas goes down to the very bottom and talks to the algorithm down there and it tells him, you know, if you tell anyone about this conversation, then the safeguard will be implemented. And then we don't get to see the conversation.

[00:37:50] And I think the show is trying to kind of make you think that the big secret is that there's a safeguard, but I think it's actually something else. And when he whispers it into Bernard's ear, then Bernard's whole reality just looks rocked. And suddenly he's waving his gun around telling everyone to get out of his office and he wants to go outside. And they're talking about how there was no point to any of it.

[00:38:16] And Lucas seems to feel like he's, he goes to his mother and the Sims come in, points his gun at him and says, tell me what you said to Bernard. And he's like, no, I can't tell you, but it doesn't matter anyway. And I'm like, it seems like they're thinking they're going to die because they're not afraid anymore. But also then why not just tell? So I don't know what the hell is going on.

[00:38:42] But the thought that came up in my head was they've realized they're all in a simulation or something like that because they kept saying there's no point to any of this. And so I don't know, maybe that's wrong, but that's what came into my head as, as what the secret is. I was thinking maybe like some kind of social experiment since I didn't mention that for episode seven.

[00:39:06] But when they're in the, when he's in the vault, Bernard with Lucas, and then the algorithm says, oh, there's a rocket in the shaft, but all the cameras are supposed to be off. So obviously like someone else or something is watching through another camera somewhere. Like how would they know otherwise? Right. So that makes me think that, yeah, there's another entity, whether it's AI or a human behind this that is watching. Yeah.

[00:39:37] So. The AI seems to know, it seems like an AI anyway, this algorithm. We don't know. Seems to know anytime anything's happening. It alerts Bernard when that rocket with the messages goes up. And also. Also. Yeah.

[00:39:54] And, and when, at the end, when Sims and Camille, his wife and their son come into the vault and they say they want to save the silo and the legacy says, well, you, you and your son have to leave, but Camille can stay. And you wonder, oh, is that because, because, oh, it said, I want to save the silo too. You have to leave and your son, but Camille can stay.

[00:40:19] And is that because he, it's been watching her the whole time and realizes that she's the kind of person it needs? I think it would have to be. Yeah. That's what I guess too. Yeah. But so let me stick more to this episode, episode eight. Just all this stuff about suppressing knowledge and control people controlling and things like that.

[00:40:45] And, uh, uprisings just made me realize that there's a lot of shows that sort of question the order of things right now. There's silo, there's severance where people seem to be being controlled. If you're watching that, it's so great. Uh, squid game season two just ended the handmaid's tale with a whole country gets taken over by religious extremists. Snow piercer, I think is like that. Right.

[00:41:14] I didn't really watch that, but the movie was sort of like it. Um, and I think, I don't think it's an accident that shows like this are coming out. I think they tap into this growing sense of powerlessness, inequality, control by unseen forces, corporate government, social. Um, and they are reflect our anxieties about these kinds of things, economic disparity, surveillance, loss of personal autonomy, all kinds of stuff like that. It makes sense.

[00:41:43] I mean, it's another art form and we see, you know, throughout history that like art changed as the world changed and often reflected things that were happening. And, you know, we didn't have TV centuries ago, so we don't have documentation of that type of art form. But I mean, that's really what it is. It's another way that we're expressing ourselves and telling stories.

[00:42:22] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:42:49] It's another way that we're seeing this page. It's another way that we're seeing this page. And so that's why people built the silo. You would think. It wouldn't be like, oh, what? The world used to be nice and there wasn't always a silo? What a mind-blowing thing. Well, I guess they don't have books. So maybe just a visual representation of, like, you can know that the world was healthy before it became toxic, but just to see it was probably like. Yeah. I mean, she's like, she says, what happened?

[00:43:19] Like, she's just realizing things used to be different and then they got bad. And it's like, you'd think you'd grow up your whole life thinking, yeah, things were good at one point and then they got bad and that's why we're here. Maybe you didn't know how good though, right? Like, maybe she thought plants always grew in greenhouses and maybe, you know, to see a beautiful, I mean, it's the Blue Ridge Parkway that she's looking at. I live right beside it.

[00:43:47] It's gorgeous, lush, like covered in trees. And I think having never seen what the outside could look like, but they've seen plants and things and maybe her mind just couldn't quite fathom that it was that beautiful. And how did we lose this, like, beautiful thing? Especially, she's a little bit of a hippie. She would have loved it.

[00:44:08] And like, she's like making, like, she makes these little home remedies because she's sort of making one for Patrick Kennedy there at the beginning. I did wonder where she's getting the herbs for her remedies when they only have sort of limited access to things. But I don't know. So I think I could imagine your mind sort of being blown at that sort of difference.

[00:44:38] She says, is it true that there was a world outside that was beautiful? Show it to me. So he shows it to her. And there's a whole book of pictures, he says. People, sky, animals, children. What happened, Paul? I don't know. I don't know. So I don't know. I get what you guys are saying, but it still just seems like it would be. I don't know.

[00:45:02] It felt to me like in that moment, she was just it was first hitting her that the world used to be nicer. If not, then she'd be more like, oh, that's what it used to look like. Oh, that's cool. Or I don't know. Right. Maybe not. All right. What else? Lucas is trying to act like a tough guy, but I thought Avinash did a good job of. Poor guy.

[00:45:30] Really clear that that's out of his wheelhouse. Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff I didn't think was all that interesting, though. Oh, except the part about Bernard tells Lucas about what Salvador Quinn did. And he should have told them this in the first place, by the way, because Bernard thinks he figured it out. And then, I mean, Lucas thinks he figured it out. Bernard's like, no, no, we already knew all this.

[00:45:55] But anyway, Bernard says there are rebellions every 20 years, which risks people opening the silo and killing everyone. And Quinn realized that part of the problem was that people knew about the rebellions that had come before. So he came up with a solution to sever the silo from its history, cut off access to the servers, confiscate the books, blame the rebels, and then put a chemical compound in the water to make them forget over the course of years.

[00:46:23] So people wouldn't remember that he'd done all that. And he says, and the consequence of this was 140 years of peace until now. So it was interesting to hear all of that. And it seems pretty clear that Quinn is kind of a hero to Bernard, that he's still using the same playbook, and that he wants peace and stability, and thinks the way to preserve it is to keep people docile in the dark. Because it did work for 140 years, apparently. And the people all, like, it's a secret that he was a hero.

[00:46:53] For some reason in the remembered history of the common folk, I mean, because his family was so ashamed, they didn't want people to know they were his descendants. And Lucas goes back to actually tell them the truth that Salvador was a hero. But I think that's an interesting piece that I'm not sure I really understood.

[00:47:16] I mean, I understand that people couldn't know fully what he had done, but why he had to go down as the villain as opposed to the hero is interesting to me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand what the shame is. What do they think he did? It feels very Batman, like, he's not the hero we need right now. I mean, it sounds like, it doesn't sound that heroic.

[00:47:43] We took away your access to all the history and then drugged you. No, I mean, that sucks. But the people don't know that piece. Yeah. But the reality is he saved the rebellion from killing the whole silo, even if his methods were not necessarily something I approve of. But I don't know.

[00:48:05] Once you realize that they're strong-armed, that if they tell people why, that that's also the end of things. It's sort of like these leaders don't really have a choice but to become villains if you have to hide the secret from people, if you're being forced to.

[00:48:26] There's the whole thing about Walker having to capitulate to Bernard and that was hard to watch because she's a strong woman that we admire and he's got her under his thumb and she agrees to cooperate with him so he won't hurt his ex-wife.

[00:48:51] And then she has to turn her camera on and stay in her workshop so he can always keep tabs on her. And then we see the rebels go to the supply to break in and get meds and bandages and his men are there waiting because she's now a spy.

[00:49:10] And that, I think, plays into our perceptions of what happens at the very end when we think, or at least some of us who didn't realize what was really going on, that they're going to do the same thing that she ratted out. Or that, you know, because she was a spy, they would know about their plan with the gunpowder, too. We think it's just going to repeat again.

[00:49:31] But throughout all this, I can't help but think, okay, while all these people from mechanical, because the rebels are like all the people who work in mechanical. Isn't it important that those jobs are fully staffed all the time because they control like the workings of the silo? And, you know, not only here are they all going around doing rebel stuff and I'm like, who's doing those jobs? But at the end, you know, they blow up the stairs and aren't a bunch of them upstairs?

[00:50:01] And like, don't you need people down there? So I sort of feel like that's something we're not supposed to think too hard about, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. In Walker's defense, in episode seven, Billings clearly says, like, no one ever came out of seclusion in judicial. Yeah. No, no. I don't blame her at all. Yeah.

[00:50:30] She's kind of stuck, you know? Yeah. She truly believes that Marta is going to die there. Yeah. I think, I think people could, I bet you most people watching sympathize with her. But if you don't, I think, imagine that your partner is, you know, being held somewhere and you don't want them to suffer or be killed. What would you do? You know? Uh, that's a fun thing to imagine.

[00:51:00] No. Good times. Camille and Sims. Um, yeah. I mean, it's interesting. You feel you get a better sense in these back episodes that Camille, the reason why she's doing what she's doing, because it's hard to understand at first is she's playing all sides. So she's trying to make friends on all sides because she can see that there's a change coming and she wants to make sure that they're well situated with whatever comes out at the end. Yeah.

[00:51:26] And I, I suspect that, um, Sims is going to be the leader of the silo after this. You think? Yeah. Yeah. Cause they sort of, they just kept hinting at it. I mean, that was her goal. The whole time was she says at some point when this is all over, the silo is going to need someone to run it and that might as well be you or something like that. I feel like he's just had his knees kicked out from him though.

[00:51:53] So often, like his wife has double crossed him. Bernard is really, I mean, he started out in such a strong position within the silo at the, you know, season one and this season. He's just kind of been blocked at every turn and, and kind of shown to be bullheaded and not really thoughtful. And Camille seems to be the real mastermind behind things. Mm hmm. But I don't think he's completely ineffective though.

[00:52:23] I think, I think you're right that he's more, he's less crafty, but he's got his strengths. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. He's more like a goon though. Like I find, and also like people are really doubting authority right now and the ones that are in power. So what's going to happen after that? I don't know. Like maybe it could be even Juliet, you know, who takes over or someone like from the people more.

[00:52:54] Yeah, I know. I think that's what we would hope for. But for some reason, I think it's going to be Sims. And when Sims go, you know, he, his whole thing is wanting to know what Lucas is up to. And he finally connects with Lucas and he finds that he has this copy of the pact from Quinn. What, what do you, what are you doing with this? And Lucas just says, oh, I, I'm supposed to give it to Bernard. And that's all I know, which is a total lie, but Sims just accepts it.

[00:53:23] So yeah, not, but, uh, he warns Lucas that Bernard might turn on him. You know, and then he says sometime soon, you might need a friend. And so that's another thing. I just feel like Sims, both the Sims, uh, what's, what's Sims first name? I don't even know, but Robert. Robert. Yeah. And his wife, Camille, they, their whole thing is just trying to be power players and be well-situated at the end of this.

[00:53:53] And maybe they failed, but I don't know why, but I think they succeeded. I think she succeeded. Yeah, for sure. Well, they're together. I don't know. They're husband and wife. You think she's going to be the man? No, I think she's on his side. I don't think she's, um, trying that she's going to kill him or divorce him or something and say, I'm, I'm in power. I think she wants to be both of them, but yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe she'll be the one in charge actually. Yeah. She's going to do things her way.

[00:54:22] Like, yeah, I don't have no doubt of that. All I'm saying is who's going to be the figurehead, but maybe it'll be her. Maybe she'll be in charge. Yeah. I don't know why I didn't think of that in the first place. All right. So we move on to the next one. Yeah. Okay. So next is episode nine, the safeguard. Juliet is confronted by Audrey, leader of five young survivors who orders Juliet to open the vault so that they can access the food.

[00:54:49] Audrey has captured Solo and wants to kill him for the death of their parents. Juliet realizes that Solo was a child at the time of the rebellion and Solo confesses that he killed the group's parents out of self-defense when they broke into the vault. Solo and the group make peace and he allows everyone into the vault. In silo 18, Lucas learns that there are 50 other silos and following Quinn's letter travels to the lower levels.

[00:55:15] Lucas finds the tunnel underneath where at a door, a computer voice warns him not to tell anyone what he has seen or they will initiate the safeguard. Billings gives Sims the picture book page, which makes Camille and Sims consider joining the rebellion. Patrick tells Kathleen his suspicion that the silos display of the outside is a lie. Bernard blames the rebels actions on Billings, but not all the top level deputies believe him.

[00:55:41] Bernard spies on Knox and Walker discussing the rebellion's plans. So I really liked just the flashbacks that we got at the beginning of this episode and sort of seeing Juliet's arrival through the eyes of the survivors in the silo.

[00:56:01] And we had kind of gotten shots, you know, throughout the beginning of the season that almost could make you, you were seeing it from a bird's eye view or from another perspective where like almost could have been them. And now we know like, yeah, someone was actually watching them. It wasn't just like a different camera angle.

[00:56:21] And I liked that knowing that when she first tried to swing over to the other side and she missed it and fell, that that wasn't her fault. Because you want to think that she would know how to set something up that would work, you know? For sure. Yeah. So they were sabotaging her. And then you hear them referring to Solo as the killer. Yeah.

[00:56:49] And so then when we actually get caught up to the current time, we have Audrey and Rick who have a baby. And then Benny, who I think is one of their younger brother, both of their younger brothers, like half brother. I'm not really sure. And then we have the girl that they're calling Eater. And they are holding Solo capture.

[00:57:16] Audrey wants to kill him immediately, but it seems like Rick is sort of like talking her down. And yeah, I don't know. I thought it was interesting. I thought what really was powerful in this episode is Juliet basically having the realization about who Solo really is.

[00:57:39] So she's supposed to be off like trying to figure out the code to the vault while they hold Solo captive. And so she's off with Eater. And they're back in that classroom where they realize like what the numbers mean. But that's also they're looking at the names on the cubbies.

[00:58:00] And there was a hint in an earlier episode where Solo is sitting there talking about a girl that he used to know and sort of talking about it in the classroom as if he knew her at that age. And Juliet's like, you couldn't have known her. Like it was like she hadn't quite figured out the math yet that it was possible that he'd been in there quite as long as he had. We figured it out. We knew that he was the son of the. Who was he? The IT guy.

[00:58:30] The IT guy. So when then when it was a big revelation, an episode or it was either this episode or the next one. Yeah. Wasn't that. You were his son. And we're like, yeah, yeah. We know. Yeah. But so like she's actually pretty close to cracking the code, but realizes it's actually much more important to go just have this conversation with Solo and try to figure out what actually happened.

[00:59:00] And because she has such a sense of urgency because she's wanting to get back to her silo, of course, and she feels like it could be a couple of days of getting closer to the code versus if she can crack Solo, then he can just get them right in. And so she like brings him his little lunchbox and sort of accuses him of being who he is and he breaks down. I just think I mean, like, again, what's the actor's name? Steve Zahn. Is that right? Mm hmm.

[00:59:29] Like just played this out perfectly, like being a grown man who's actually still kind of frozen socially as a 12 year old without being annoying. Like it was just perfectly. I don't know. I just had so much empathy and love for his character. And it was such a perfect play with Juliet, who I feel like was a bit of a big sister almost role to him, which also was like doubly beautiful to me because she had lost a younger brother.

[01:00:00] And so I don't know that this was so powerful, her sort of helping him realize that he was just a kid and his dad was just trying to protect him. It wasn't about the vault. I just thought all of that was so beautiful. And then also the reveal that he was responsible for killing those, you know, the survivors parents, but not because he was bad.

[01:00:27] He was just trying to protect himself because they tried to kill him. And he wasn't letting them in because he thought, I mean, his dad, the last thing his dad told him before he died was to do it. And so I think it just, it was, I can imagine too, like by this point, I hated Audrey because she'd been so sort of petulant throughout the whole thing. But I think in sort of rethinking it through the last couple of days, I mean, it would have been so hard to be her.

[01:00:54] Here's this person that you've sort of assumed is almost like a monster and has murdered your parents who are just trying to help you not starve. And you're having to let go of that and realize like that's not actually the whole story. And he is still responsible for their death, but like they were trying to kill him. Like it's just so complicated. And I think it would have been really difficult to be her. I softened a little bit. Part of it was that I was doing like a fast rewatch.

[01:01:20] So I wasn't sort of like paying as much attention to her annoying moments, but. I'm just the way she's there. Like, like, cause you're right. That scene is so beautiful. There's, but the, it's, the emotion is amped up because not only is she trying to, uh, cheer up or, um, support solo, you know, Juliet. By saying it wasn't your fault. You were only 12 years old. You were doing what your dad said. He, he was trying to save you. And that's, you know, why he told you to do that, all that stuff.

[01:01:50] But she was doing it with this arrow pointed at her from Audrey and trying to, at the same time, make the connection that, hey, his dad was trying to save him. Just like your parents were trying to save you. And like, you're trying to protect your own kids. Just trying to make everyone realize we're all in this together. So let's chill out, you know?

[01:02:13] And it just made it such a great little sequence on, on multiple levels, but through the whole thing, Audrey still got her bow cocked back. And even when you feel like, okay, now everyone should understand. Here's her boyfriend the whole time trying to push her back. Like, no, this isn't right. This isn't right. She's still going, I need to kill him though. You know? And it's like, I think she just felt, feels this huge pain at the loss of her parents.

[01:02:38] And she's made up her mind that the way to make the pain go away is to kill the person who she sees as having caused it, which is Solo, you know? That's just the one thing that's on her mind. And yeah, you're right. She has to let go of that and it's hard, but thankfully she does because. Right. A bummer. I mean, sure. I understand that. Okay.

[01:03:03] Like she thinks that Solo was the killer, but all the hate towards Eater or Hope. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay. I understand they had like one more mouth to feed, but that's just like, not, that's not cool. Like I wrote in my notes, like someone punch Audrey in the face, please.

[01:03:25] Like even after Hope told her that she like cut herself and made a trail of blood just to lead Juliet away from them, you know? And she just, whatever. You're not supposed to have ideas. Like shut up. I don't want to hear your. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're right. Veronica. Like I tried to have empathy for all the characters, but man, she made it really hard. Yeah. No, for sure. For sure.

[01:03:55] Yeah. Definitely played that character out. Well, yeah. She's not a real person. She's just a character. So I'm allowed to like call her a bitch. You know? I mean, that was clearly the writers and the directors and the actors. I think they all knew that we were not going to like her. Oh, yeah. That's what they were going for, you know? One cool thing, and I can't take credit for it. I was watching some of like the recap videos on YouTube by Pete Peppers.

[01:04:24] Oh, yeah. Um, and one thing he had noted was that in the first episode of the season where we get the flashback to sort of the rebellion going down in silo 17. And we see the sheriff talking to his wife and saying, my hand slipped. My hand slipped. I didn't mean to. Um, he's referring to, he actually, supposedly, I guess his hand slipped.

[01:04:54] He did not actually mean to kill Silo's father right in front of him there. Um, so we were basically in episode one, we were seeing the sheriff's reaction back in his apartment with his wife to having just shot, um, Jimmy slash Silo's, or Solo, not Silo. Sorry. Jimmy slash Solo's father, the IT head right in front of him.

[01:05:21] Um, he actually didn't mean to shoot him there, supposedly. Um, I thought that was interesting. I hadn't caught that little bit. That little snippet. No, I didn't either. What else? Um, I really had already in this episode assumed that Knox was on to Walker being the spy, even

[01:05:46] though he went in there and was saying that he thought the spy was someone else. Teddy's mom or something. Yeah. I thought from this point on, I thought that he really knew that Walker was the spy. I thought Walker was on to him calling her out in a, in a veiled, um, way. Yeah. Because he said, oh, Teddy's mom, like, you know, he, she knew that he was, uh, in danger

[01:06:15] or she was being blackmailed. So you can't blame her. And you, it seemed like that was his oblique way of telling Walker that same thing about her. Yeah. I definitely didn't. I know, but I forgive you. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely didn't guess that they were doing like the secret communication thing that we'll get to next episode. But I also had written in my notes that at this point, I also thought Bernard saw through what they were doing.

[01:06:41] So like, I felt like Bernard is a tricksy enough dude himself that he would have seen through that conversation as being at least somewhat strange, like how direct it was. And so like, obviously I wasn't right. He, he didn't. See through it. Um, well, they have to balance how people really are and the most dramatic way to have a story play out. And it was all because I think they really did want us or at least some of the audience to

[01:07:10] feel this way that, oh, I think maybe Walker and, uh, Knox are actually on the same page now. And so they're going to win. And then next episode, when you see all those soldiers march through and arrest all of the people that we care about, our characters, my thought anyway was, oh shit, I guess I was wrong. They're failing. Walker did successfully spy on them. And now Bernard's men are foiling their plan.

[01:07:39] And then it turns around and no, we actually were right. You know, I just kind of feel like whiplash a little bit, but in a really fun way. I mean, this whole show has done that. Like there's so many double crosses and so many mysteries. Like it was really fun. And like plans within plans. I want to reread the books, uh, this year after we finish up podcasting and, um, reread them again. Cause there's so much I forgot, but they really had, did change a lot.

[01:08:06] Like there's some pretty key differences, um, that have emerged, particularly this season that I was surprised were changed. Um, but also I think made it still exciting for book readers while keeping a lot of the core the same. So that's been fun. What's, do you remember if it was like that though, where, cause in this show, I can't think of any examples right now, but they often make you think that you're looking at something

[01:08:34] and you realize that no, it's actually something else, you know, things aren't what they seem. And I wonder if it's like that in the book. Definitely things aren't what they see. Like there's definitely a lot of the sort of mystery. It's just a, a bit of a different story and how it plays out. Um, one other thing, like you already mentioned this last episode, but one thing I wrote down

[01:09:01] and it was just killing me is the way that Bernard kept piecemeal feeding information to Lucas. Cause once again, this episode, he, he, uh, came, you know, crashing in being like, Oh, I think there's more silos. And Bernard's like, we all know there are 50 silos. I'm like, these are the things that you should have been like, Hey, here's like the real like cliff notes, crazy shit. You need to know now go figure out what's still missing.

[01:09:29] Like, why would you have let him waste time on the things you already know? Yeah. Kill me. That's what I thought too, but maybe it was just testing Lucas. Like, okay, how much this guy is going to find out like on his own, like, is it worthy? But I don't, I don't think so. I thought it was stupid too. Yeah. All the IT guys and the shadows know this and like, well, I'm a shadow, but maybe he's supposed to read that control book.

[01:09:55] It's like the handbook, you know, but, uh, Bernard just wanted him to, he's cares more about this code. So we just wanted to put him on that right away. It just seems like he could have been like, okay, here's a list of like 10 things that you should know. So don't waste your time figuring them out. Yeah. And it's crazy. I don't know if it's in that episode or the last one, but when Lucas is trying to get to Bernard to talk to him after he went, you know, um, to the down deep and talk to them,

[01:10:24] the algorithm and Edmondson is like, no, you cannot see Bernard. Bernard, uh, he's busy cause he's watching Walker, I guess. I mean, I thought, I thought that was a little bit like of a plot contrivance just so Lucas would go down without talking to Bernard first, but I don't really know what Bernard was doing. I, he was watching Walker. That was it. Yeah.

[01:10:49] But then if you're sending, if you send someone like on this, on such an important mission, like he did send Lucas on that mission, what did you say to Edmondson? Like, Hey, by the way, if that guy wants to see me, like let him through, you know, I was like, but yeah, maybe it's just showing that Bernard is like running out of moves and losing it. And, um, he's not really in control or thinking clearly, um, so much at that point.

[01:11:21] Or it's bad writing. I mean, I'm just nitpicking cause the show is awesome. Yeah. No, I thought about that too. It seems when he couldn't find Bernard at that particular moment, it seems a little unbelievable. I had a few like questions in my notes, I guess, just wrapping this episode up of like, why isn't the AI here in silo 17? Like, why isn't that voice coming over?

[01:11:48] Like, did they figure out how to turn that off? Um, obviously they saw, I mean, somehow there's a couple of people still alive in their silos. So they figured out how to overcome whatever the fail safe might've been. Um, but then if the AI is gone and the silo is lost and there's power still coming to the

[01:12:14] vault in silo 17, even though it seems that, I mean, Bernard even seems to be aware that that silo is gone. Why is there still being power supplied to it? Yeah. And that seems then it's just automatic. I don't know. I mean, we're good. We're about to get into the final episode, but one of the big questions I have is, you

[01:12:38] know, right at the same time that solo is remembering that there's this thing called the safeguard and that Juliet needs to figure out how to put a stop to it, or it's about a pipe and poison. They figure all that out. And then he says something like, yeah, my parents figured out how to stop it. And also to make it okay to go outside or something like that. Right. Those are somehow tied together. And I'm like, how is a pipe that can send poison into a silo also related to somehow making it okay to go outside?

[01:13:08] And he says the people who went outside didn't die right away. And so I'm like, what does that mean? What am I missing? Or are we just not supposed to know? My theory about that, I mean, I could be wrong. Probably am. But I feel that it's more than just the algorithm watching them. There has to be humans and like more than one making those decisions.

[01:13:39] Some of them like are trying to help them. So there's, they still have power. Maybe some of them are not trying to help the silo or we're trying to help the silo 17. But you could think that maybe the outside environment is controlled as well. Because they say, what did they say? Like there was this dust like coming in. Yeah. Dust cloud. Yeah.

[01:14:08] I think that's what solo, I was going to say silo too. That's what he says. So maybe, okay. Maybe the poison. Yeah. Because maybe the poison can be piped outside or something. And maybe the people got outside and then somebody shot the poison out later or something like that. I don't know. Or like, is it possible with radioactivity?

[01:14:34] I mean, I'm trying to think back to all we learned about radioactive stuff from Fear the Walking Dead. It's really accurate information. No, but like, is it possible after nuclear fallout to then have like, if high winds come up, that it could kind of make the air worse? Like, could it be a non-directed thing? But just like, maybe it's less dangerous outside, but there's still some like dangerous. Could it be something like that?

[01:15:02] And so like a dust cloud, like it could be, like you said, that there's humans out there and they come out. Or it could be a pipe outside. But could it also just be the environment is variable? I mean, in the other silo, every time somebody goes out, they're wearing a suit that just has bad tape. And they die. And they die right away. And they die right away.

[01:15:26] And we could see that people from 17, like, dameted out like much further than the people who go out to clean from silo 18. Yeah, yeah. I hope we're going to get a flashback to silo 17 again to see more about what happened there. And I honestly, like, I'm legitimately questioning this because it like, literally the book has as many, it has a lot of twists and turns with some mysteries.

[01:15:56] And this is one where I really don't remember the answer to what's going on exactly. So I will know before next season, but. But then, okay, why would you want to kill them? Okay, if the outside environment is controlled, why would you want to kill them when they go out? If you could just kill them inside? Yeah.

[01:16:23] With the pipe on floor, like 14 or 34, I can't remember, like, where they go. You want them to stay inside. You want them to be scared. To stay inside. So you want to kill them. You want to be able to kill the people as they go out one by one for cleaning. Yeah, I mean, I just don't, I don't get it. I don't understand. Solo was so excited saying, Julia, you have to come back here so I can tell you how to save your silo.

[01:16:53] There's this safeguard thing and, you know, you have to figure out how to stop it. And my parents figured out how to, you know, get outside without, you know, I forget. I should probably get the dialogue here. What did he say? Jimmy sees the safeguard procedure written on something, says it could kill people. But his parents had figured out a way to stop it. If Juliet knows it, maybe she can keep her solo from dying.

[01:17:19] And he said his dad told him that they had done something to make it safe to go outside. And I didn't write it down, but he also said something about they didn't die immediately, you know? Yeah. So, but then how did they die? So, yeah, I don't know. All right. For season two, episode 10, since we all took turns with one, I thought we could all read the synopsis together. Ready? Go. No, I'm just kidding. That won't work.

[01:17:48] Amelie, want to do it? Sure. Okay. So, season two, episode 10, Into the Fire. Walker works with Knox and the other rebels to use Bernard's camera to send him misinformation. They trick Bernard into sending the raiders below and transferring all rebels up top after Pete sacrifices himself to blow up the stairs in between. That was so sad. Yeah.

[01:18:16] The up-top deputies side with the rebels after receiving Billington's message via Sims. Patrick agitates the citizens into a mob that demands answer from Bernard. Lucas tells Bernard what he learned and resigns, which causes a despondent Bernard to make Sims his new IT shadow, handing over the vault key and password. Sim and his family enter the vault, but the legacy says only Camille can stay.

[01:18:48] It's not the legacy. It's the algorithm. But anyway. In Silo 17, Solo tells Juliet about the safeguard, a pipe that can pump enough poison to kill everyone, and how it can be stopped. Juliet uses the firefighter suit and returns to Silo 18, which is seen inside and celebrated. But she shows a message warning them not to leave. Juliet enters as Bernard is leaving, and they are locked in the incinerator as it fires up.

[01:19:16] In an apparent flashback in Washington, D.C., a woman named Ellen questions a new congressman about the possibility of the U.S. retaliating against Iran for supposedly detonating a dirty bomb on U.S. soil. I like the supposedly here. Yeah, because she asked one of the questions she asked him was, do you believe it actually happened? Which that just brings up a lot of questions. Like, why would you ask that?

[01:19:46] Don't you know for sure if it happened? And if not, then is like a dirty bomb, you'd think there'd be some evidence of that, right? Because from what I know, a dirty bomb is meant to spread radioactivity everywhere, but it still, I think, has an explosive force, a destructive force. So that was weird. To me, supposedly, it could mean, like, supposedly it was blamed on them, but it could have been someone else.

[01:20:15] But then again, like, you see the man who is at the door, like, scanning, like, every customer before they go into the bar. Yeah. And the congressman says, do you ever get a red? And he's like, oh, no. Yeah. So it's like, I don't know, like, I don't know why I'm thinking that, but from what I can remember, the way Ellen says it, it's more like, did it really happen and not was it really Iran?

[01:20:44] Or just like fear mongering and telling people. Yeah. She says, I think that people need to know if there are plans to strike back against Iran, whether or not there really was a radiological weapon attack on the United States. Yeah. So maybe it was just a bomb, but there's a question about whether it was a radiological bomb. I don't know.

[01:21:07] That's one of the reasons why I think maybe also the outside environment is controlled, because that sort of implies that people were lied to about the dirty bomb. So maybe it was a way to scare people and get them to go into the silos. Hmm. By faking it? Yeah.

[01:21:32] I mean, I guess if you fake it by piping radioactive material, it's kind of effectively actually having. But I mean, I guess the question then is, yeah, whether or not it's Iran or it's like the U.S. just pretending to be Iran in order to manipulate people. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it would make sense then if it is a social experiment, then it would make sense that this is the case.

[01:22:01] You know, that they lied to people and told them that there was a threat that wasn't there. Yeah. Blame it on somebody else. False flag. We'll get back to that whole thing. But reading through the synopsis, one thing, Bernard decided to make Sims his new IT shadow.

[01:22:23] Just sort of like, because he was like, after Lucas told him what he had to tell him, you could tell that he was like, oh shit, my whole life is pointless. It's a lie or that kind of energy. And then he's like, okay, you can be my shadow. I don't care anymore. Whatever. But that's another thing that makes me think maybe he'll be in charge, at least nominally, because he's like next in line to be the IT guy. Very like Dwight Schrute, like assistant to the original manager energy. To the, yeah.

[01:22:54] Juliet and Solo, like they took Jimmy, I think, to his old apartment for some reason. And I just really love that sequence of him remembering his parents and the way they showed them next to him and seeing his face in the mirror and saying, I was younger than them then. But, oh, I got so old touching his face. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. Oh. And he says his mom had a suit made, but, oh, I don't see that anywhere.

[01:23:23] And then also said that that night that all the shit went down, that she wasn't there. So that makes me wonder if she's out there somewhere. She put the suit on and went to another silo or something like that. Yeah. That would be cool to have like another perspective from someone who has like a different story altogether. Yeah. Or the suit maybe is still there somewhere and Hope is going to use it. Someone else can use it.

[01:23:52] Or someone from 17 will use it. What about the whole just this was pretty exciting to see all those guards with their armored uniforms, you know, going down below and bashing through the barrier and killing that one guy. Yeah.

[01:24:16] And then the whole sequence with Juliet's father, he dropped his, what was it that he dropped? A knob or something. A switch. I think it was the timer. The detonator timer. Which, you know, when I was rewatching it just today, I noticed this subtle foreshadowing in the very opening scene with him where it opens and there's a very loud sound of like a ticking clock before the dialogue comes in.

[01:24:45] I was just like, oh, it made me feel so sad. I was like, so this hinges, you see him accidentally drop the timer. He doesn't notice. And then it becomes a fatal mistake, you know, that he has to manually detonate the bomb himself. He tells Hank, you know, Hank's like, let me be the one to stay. And he's like, absolutely not. And we said this last time, but I'd be like, oh, maybe you should stay because I'm a doctor.

[01:25:13] I can help a lot more people. Yeah, but I mean, the guy had one job. Like, come on. Yeah, I know. Hold on to that timer.

[01:25:23] But the fact that it was a timer that's played a crucial role in this little bit here, it makes me think about how I think it's so funny that this dark, dramatic, dystopian sci-fi epic has a peculiar focus on seemingly trivial, practical things like tape and wiping off a camera. And hard drives and things like that.

[01:25:47] And I was talking to Madeline Joe from the group about it, and she felt the same. And she does art projects and helps build sets and things like that. And so she's, you know, handy and good with her hands and stuff and around other people doing production work. And she said the level of drama around the good tape and bad tape is very who took my gaffer tape. I got the expensive stuff this time.

[01:26:14] It's one of my favorite things so far just because I want to make memes to send to my production bros. The grand speech about tape followed by the soapbox moment about tape, LOL. And so we were talking about that. And then I went and looked on the author Hugh Howey's wiki page. He wrote the novels. And it said that he worked as a roofer and an audio technician and also a yacht captain.

[01:26:39] But I just think the fact that he was a roofer and an audio tech helped explain the focus on these kinds of things and how important they are in the story. And he's like tinkered with things and worked with his hands and stuff. It's interesting. I always found it weird about this show that they would, especially the whole tape saga from season one. I kind of like it for a few reasons. Just like in the world of post-apocalyptic, even though they're in this sort of somewhat resource-rich environment,

[01:27:08] the way they're still trying to recycle and the iterations of recycling that they do. I love that about post-apocalyptic, trying to find supplies and thinking about what I would use and what I might be able to recycle into something else. I love that about post-apocalyptic shows. And so I think that's been cool. But then the other thing that I think has been so striking has been that even though we find out these silos were built like over 300 years ago,

[01:27:39] they have like amazingly advanced technology. So the AI voice, the iPads, like there's a lot of things that show that like at whatever time these were built, tech was pretty advanced and they actually could have made these silos way more technologically advanced. But they purposefully built them as they did to slow information flow for the purpose of being able to control the,

[01:28:07] you know, sort of very precious population inside. And I think that also makes the whole focus on the mechanical stuff so interesting because a lot of that probably could have been made very differently, been done automated. Like there's no reason they couldn't have had a self-cleaning screen on the camera for outside, right? But they wanted that for a purpose.

[01:28:35] And they could have had really fast probably elevators going up and down, but they wanted people to not easily be able to go up from, you know, level 100 to talk to someone on level 30. They wanted it to be a whole production so that information would go slowly. And I think that's really interesting and clever. Yeah. It's an integral part of the story. That's a really good point.

[01:29:01] And I mean, if they had technology that was so advanced when they created the silos, like it just adds to like, why? I mean, if it, if it is an experiment or whatever that is, like their means, they had a lot of means to control all of that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Good point.

[01:29:28] What about Patrick whipping everybody into a frenzy to go out, just like we saw in the silo 17 flashback? What about that? I was like, shut up, man. But it also makes so much sense why he has arrived at this conclusion, right? That it's a lie. And I could totally see it. And I mean, literally we're just watching a replica of what happened almost, almost exactly in the last silo.

[01:29:57] One big difference is that someone came over the hill. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And mooned the camera. Yay. Yay. And then they're like, we're not going out there. Not safe. And that's just been written on her ass. Yeah. Don't come outside. She can't find a piece of paper. Not safe.

[01:30:26] Just not safe. What is she trying to say? That was a cool moment to see her. She cleaned it. She cleaned the camera first, which I kind of didn't like because she's the one rebel. Yeah. Right. But it was sort of like, hey, no, this is important. I'm cleaning it now. I need to show you something here. Yeah. But that was a cool moment. Yeah. This show has good moments. It definitely does.

[01:30:55] I was teary when I saw her like over the hill and everyone like just looking at her. And I was thinking like, oh, man, her dad is dead. Like, I don't know. Like just dead. Yeah. It was so emotional. Then she gets in and Bernard's there and they're confronting each other. And she says, why are you here? He says, I just want to go outside, feel fucking free for one moment in my life.

[01:31:23] Which to me, I feel like, yeah, like you're saying, Veronica, he's following the rules in this book, The Order. And he has this purpose that he's dedicated his life to. And for whatever reason, whatever Lucas told him, he's like, oh, that was well. He even says there's no point what you're trying to do. Save the silo. It's out of your hands. It was never in your hands, in my hands, in anyone's hands.

[01:31:52] So he's just like, everything I was doing was pointless. And so now I just want to feel free for once and go out and do something. He was just upon all this time and he didn't realize. Yeah, I mean, I think even whether he realized it or not, he just felt like beholden to this thing that he now realizes was pointless. So he doesn't want to be beholden to anything anymore.

[01:32:19] You know, I mean, even while he was doing it, he's still like following this playbook this whole time and not doing anything of his own accord. Necessarily. I mean, he literally killed probably one of the few people in his adult life that he has had a real emotional connection to, even if it was years past. He killed Judge Meadows. And he felt like he had no choice. Yeah.

[01:32:44] You know, he's now having to like swallow all the bad things he did as also pointless. So then the doors close and fire engulfs the room. And what do we think is the outcome of that? We know Juliette's suit was, it was, it wasn't a going out suit, right? It was from. A firefighter. A firefighter suit.

[01:33:12] So like, to me, that feels like something pro in her favor of. Yeah. Making it out from that. To me, that means there's a 100% chance she's alive. Because why else would they? Yeah. Yeah. You're going to make a point of telling us that, but. But I, I think he's probably dead because he didn't have that on. It's kind of weird though, to kill someone off. Like, I mean, Tim Robbins is like a big actor. Like, it's a big character.

[01:33:41] Like, are they going to start like season three? Like, yeah, he died this way. Like, no goodbye. No nothing. No, like. I don't know. Yeah. They could do flashbacks or something. If he's still on it. Yeah. I mean, maybe he'll be alive. I don't know. But I just. I don't think so. Yeah. I. One thing I. Well, a couple of things I really loved about this episode. All having to do with this algorithm. I think, like you said, Veronica, the tech is pretty low tech.

[01:34:11] Except for anything related to the vault and the algorithm. Awesome. And when Lucas was down there talking to it, it felt like a Wizard of Oz moment or something. And it had this otherworldly voice and speaking to him with all this knowledge and everything. Which is crazy because the book that Bernard gave him was the Wizard of Oz. I didn't even think about that. Oh, yeah. I'm sure that's probably. But yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So anyway, I just.

[01:34:40] I find it all very intriguing. And now there's this big secret that I really want to know the answer to. So let's talk about this flashback in New York. One thing, like you said, you know, the tech of this iPad-like device, but it's more advanced than a regular iPad. Not much more, but more. And it has like all of human history on it or something.

[01:35:07] And the algorithm itself seems very advanced. But you could see both of those things being a reality in the next five years or so, you know, from now, I think. But I think. Or five or ten. But I think. One thing in this scene with this reporter and this politician is they were talking. He said, I had thought this was a date.

[01:35:34] And she's like, what are you, 95 or something like that? Using that term as if it's a really old term. And. I thought, is that what people think right now? And I just don't know that because I'm older, but I don't think so. I think the reason they stuck that in there was to sort of indicate that it's a bit in the future from where we are right now. I think so. I think people still say that, but also I'm like. Not a spring chicken anymore. So I don't know. So I think it's.

[01:36:03] What I'm trying to say. I think you're right. If it's not clear. Yeah. That it's farther enough in the future that this iPad and this algorithm could have been a reality at that point. You know, maybe it's like 25 years from now or 10 years or something. So anyway, I, the whole thing with these, this, the reporter and the politician and they are acting like it's a date, but they both. I guess he thought maybe it could have been a date. He did look her up on Google, but he pretended not to, for some reason.

[01:36:33] I don't know why just to have the upper hand or something, but it seemed like he did have hope that it was going to be a date, even though she was a reporter. Because as soon as she started asking questions, he just left. So what other reason was he there except hoping that it could have been a date? But anyway, I don't know how I felt about the framing of that. I don't know if they were just trying to make it entertaining or what, but it just made it a little bit confusing to me.

[01:36:56] And I was just more interested in, in what they had to say about the plot of the show, which is that he used to be, he went to engineering school or something. He went to school for an engine to be an engineer. And yeah, that this dirty bomb apparently was dropped from Iran. And now everybody has to be scanned at the entrance to this bar to make sure they're not radioactive, presumably.

[01:37:23] And so, and there's tension between Iran and the U S and so it seems like, and then she has the Pez dispenser that he got her as a gift. Which is weird. Like, why would you buy a Pez dispenser as a gift for someone on a date? Do people do that? Maybe they do. I don't know, but I would love that. Really? Okay. I love Pez and Pez dispensers. Okay. Maybe I'm wrong.

[01:37:48] But anyway, it seems like they're suggesting that he creates the silo and she's a denizen of it. That's what it seems like to me because she's got the Pez dispenser. So, and it ends up in the silo. So that makes me wonder if she ends up in the silo and he's the engineering guy. So does he somehow either create it or at least spearhead the creation of it as a politician who knows engineering? I'm excited for next season.

[01:38:17] Veronica knows. It would make sense that he's part of it. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think? Do you think anything else besides what I'm saying? Amelie? Well, they say in the show, they mentioned that he's the congressman from Georgia. And we see that book. It's from Georgia. The book, like, the picture.

[01:38:45] Is it a book for kids or like a tour? Yeah. Tourism, I think. Yeah. Book. Yeah. So maybe it takes place in Georgia. So did he bring the book inside or? I'm pretty sure. I'm not 100%. I should have looked it up. But that also I read someone said that when, you know, it came out of the silo that the city skyline could have been the Atlanta skyline.

[01:39:11] I think I remember that from last finishing up last season that that was something people were speculating. Also, we saw Rick in an helicopter. He's actually been dropping gas. He's working with the CRM. All right. Is that good? Is there anything we didn't say that we should say? One thing I'm wondering, I just have a couple of questions.

[01:39:40] What happens with the syndrome storyline? They said something about it being like almost not necessarily like it just happens to people because of the stress of being in the enclosed environment. Don't they say? Am I making that up? Like I said, like it's a natural reaction to a natural environment. Did they say that he stopped having symptoms?

[01:40:10] But he stopped having symptoms while he was in the down deep. And he was having. And I mean, his job was not any less stressful down there, if not more stressful. Talking about Bill. Anyway, I was wondering what was going on with that. Maybe we'll find out. Find out.

[01:40:36] Also, I'm a bit worried about like we didn't talk about the sort of romance between Shirley and Knox. But if they do really get together, I'm kind of afraid like one of the two is going to die because that's what happens in these shows. He asked her, why did you kiss me? And then she said, you kissed me. And I'm like, no. You kissed me.

[01:41:06] Yeah. I don't. I actually don't think they have good chemistry. Honestly. You don't? No. They don't seem. I don't know. She just seemed so focused on being pissed off and having this mission that it doesn't feel like she's emotionally available for any kind of a connection like that to me. It felt weird to me. Which is fine. For some reason. But. Well. That's not a criticism against not being. I mean, I feel like she has reason to be upset.

[01:41:35] But I don't know. It just didn't feel like they were connecting on that in that way to me. Well, I like them together. Cool. You know, there's one more thing that I can't think about that we didn't talk about. Is the painting in Solo's vault. The painting that he looks at with Juliet. And he's like, oh, it's a bird painting. Did you look at that?

[01:42:04] Did you pause on it? I know there's been talk online about it, but I didn't want to read it because I didn't want to be spoiled about the book or anything like that. But it clearly looks like it's a view from the outside. Like what they see in the cafeteria when they send people to cleaning. Like you have a hill and there's some kind of a triangle and two different like human silhouettes that seem to be like scaled up to the painting. Hmm.

[01:42:34] I want to go look at it now. It's kind of like as if it was a painting made by someone who created the silo. Hmm. I mean, when he pointed that out to me, I just thought of like, oh, yeah, she saw she noticed birds when she went out through. I guess it was just through the fake view, right? There's you always see the same birds. Right.

[01:43:04] In the helmet. So different. That there was a connection. This has like a I can't remember what those birds are called. But like one looks like an eagle statue. And then I see that like triangle thing that almost look it's got some like markings on it. It looks like some like a measurement for something. Yeah.

[01:43:28] Like what are people going to see when the when someone leaves the silo for cleaning? It's like that whole view was planned out. That's what I think the painting is about. I just like Googled silo 17 vault painting and went straight to images like didn't read anything. And at least from my results, it's safe. You could just see the picture without reading theories. But it's interesting.

[01:44:01] I just don't think it was a coincidence. Like they put that in there like it's an Easter egg or they wanted us to look at it or think about it.

[01:45:01] All right. We're back. It's time for some listener feedback. Matt King says Steve's on was fantastic in season two. Hope we see more in season three. Yeah, me too. I don't know if it's been announced whether he'll be back, but I hope so. Yeah. Beth Perry says still watching it. I kind of feel like they're dragging out the storylines. Yeah.

[01:45:25] I feel good knowing that there are only going to be four seasons, but I feel like like I think they could have done almost like one less episode and gotten rid of some of the sort of dramatic dialogue. I think it was a lot of moments that didn't feel core. But overall, for the most part, I think episode eight was the only one where I kind of got bored.

[01:45:54] But I felt like there was a lot more action and excitement and I was nervous for characters. I liked the season better than season one. Yeah, they're pretty close to me. I don't know when they decided. I think originally they were thinking about doing five seasons and now they're doing four. And I don't know if that was a budget thing or a story thing, but I do worry that they're like trying to.

[01:46:18] But this happens with shows when they don't know how many seasons they're going to have at first where they kind of pad things out a little bit and then they get they get told how many seasons they've got. So they have to kind of cram the rest in. So I hope the second two or the next two final two don't feel rushed. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. Compared to what we've gotten so far. I like a consistent pace. And, you know, the Game of Thrones is the big one that comes to mind.

[01:46:45] Just they really had a great pace, but it was it took a long time to get from one place to another. And then all of a sudden in the last two seasons is just zipped right through. So weird. It's tough. Lonnie Gilbert says Steve's on acting like a 12 year old stuck in a lonely adult man's body. Move me to tears. I hope that's not the last we see of him. Yeah, me too.

[01:47:10] And it kind of reminds me if you watch from on MGM plus there's a character called Victor on there that it has a similar circumstance. He was kind of trapped somewhere as a child and then grew into an adult without many people around. And so he has a similar vibe as Solo to me. I agree. Scott Gus says I thought the season was slow, but still good. I did read the books around seven years ago.

[01:47:36] So I'm not real sure how they're going to finish the show in two more seasons since there's a lot to cover. Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. Shelley Champagne says in regards to walk, letting them use her and the mechanical team rushing up all the floors like fools walking into their trap. You might say I was like, well, that's not good writing. They wouldn't have done that. Then I was like, oh, my gosh, the deep fake.

[01:48:05] That was excellent writing. They fooled me. Also, I love me some knocks. I think Apple should do a slow TV test of knocks. Like petting puppies or whatever. Flexing. Yeah. Shelley had asked where did I miss the final silo podcast? And I'm like, no. Everybody missed it. Sorry. So thanks for asking, Shelley.

[01:48:40] All right. That is our show. Episode 624. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you so much to you two for coming back and doing this again. I appreciate it so much. No problem. Yeah. After I lost the first one that we did. So as we've mentioned a couple of times, they've announced that there's going to be two more seasons of the show and that'll be it. And so I imagine that the three of us will get back together and cover those two. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:49:09] When they come out, hopefully, I think, did they say, I don't know. I think they might've said that they're going to film the next two back to back. So there won't be as much time in between those two. I think. That'd be nice. Yeah. Next episode of this podcast is The Walking Dead Season 4, Episode 7, Dead Weight. And if you want to write in or leave us a message, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. While you're there, be sure to check out our other shows.

[01:49:40] Yeah. There's stuff coming up. One that I'm especially excited about, the final five episodes of the Cobra Kai series come out soon. They might actually be out by the time you see this. I think it's February 13th. And Rima Richard and I are going to be podcasting about that as we have for all the episodes in the series up to now. And that's actually been one of my all-time favorite shows to podcast about. Really? Through all this. Yeah.

[01:50:09] Kind of surprised me, but there's way more there than you might think to parse out and talk about. Nice. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Monica McGuire, who've pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you so much, Monica. She gets ad-free episodes of all of these. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't tell anyone about the b****, Scott Goss.