628: "Inmates" (TWD S4E10 Rewatch)

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. You could've helped me stop her. You're trying to make me feel sorry for you, it's not working. Damn, means I let myself get shot up for nothing. The odds of us finding him. We should be out looking for food, shelter. Yeah? Why's that? So we can live.

[00:00:30] Then what? What? Maybe we didn't survive just to keep surviving. Shit happens. Not everything has to mean something. No, it doesn't have to, but it can, if you make it that way and that's what it seems like we're doing. I'm done with that.

[00:01:18] Hey Zetta Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And this is The Cast of Us episode 628. On this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead season 4 episode 10. Inmates. Inmates. Like postmates. Inmates. Why is it called Inmates? Because of the sign. Is there outside now? The sign. The sign at the end. The permit sign?

[00:01:43] No, when Glenn and Tara are on the road, when they escape the prison, there is a sign that says, um, hitchhikers may be escaping inmates. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. Because I was the same. I was like, why is this episode called this? Because they're out of the prison. But I think that's why, because they're escaping. Yeah. And they're all mates. They're all mates. All right. You want to read the plot summary? Yes. Uh, this week's plot summary.

[00:02:11] Daryl helps to protect Beth as they flee in search for survivors. I think that's a bit unfair to Beth. She doesn't need much protecting in this episode. They're kind of helping each other. Anyway, that's me. Um, Tyrese having saved Lori's child Judith. Is this a wiki one or a chat? Uh, wait, do you remember when Beth was firing an empty gun at one of the zombies that would have totally killed her if Daryl didn't come in with his crossbow? Do you remember that part? Was that this episode? Yeah. Yeah, all right. All right. I would say like...

[00:02:41] Okay, fine. I would say Daryl totally protected. Okay. Yeah, I would say like, in that instance, yes. But anyway, okay, fine. Um, is this chat GPT or wiki? Just out of interest. I love that they call Judith Lori's child, just to be very clear. Anyway, Tyrese having saved Lori's child Judith, escorts young sisters Lizzie and Mika and is soon joined by Carol. Maggie, Sasha and Bob find the bus from the prison, the survivors inside dead and reanimated as walkers, though Maggie is relieved that Glenn is not among them.

[00:03:12] Glenn, having been knocked unconscious at the prison, finds a frightened Tara and helps to lead her to safety. Coming across Abraham, Eugene and Rosita in their travels. Rosita! Yeah! So what did you think? It was fun to come back to this episode. I got a surprise because in my head, every episode up to Terminus was a bottle episode with just or just a focused episode on a small group. Oh yeah, yeah. And I forgot that we're actually checking in with everyone in this episode. Yeah.

[00:03:40] So it's quite nice to have that, um, four acts of sort of what's happening with the It is everyone too, right? Except for Rick and Carl. Except for the Grimeses. Yeah. So it's nice. It's nice to see. Yeah. I, yeah, I had forgotten most of what was in this episode except for one particular moment. Do you, can you guess what that is? When we see that Judith is alive? No, but it's close.

[00:04:10] It's when... Lizzie nearly. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh my God, that is so hard to watch. It's awful. I'd forgotten it and I'm just like, oh, oh no. As soon as I saw, yeah, Lizzie, I mean, uh, Judith, I was like, oh shit, that's this episode. Um, but anyway, I, I, so I'd forgotten most of it and I thought it was good, but really, I mean, it is good. It's no buts, but it lost some of its effect because it's, it's about, uh, the aftermath

[00:04:39] of the governor having destroyed their home and they all scatter. And we don't know who made it when we're first watching this. So originally we're like, yeah, now we know. So it doesn't hit. Yeah. We have to remember. Oh yeah. When Tyrese turns around with Judith holding Judith, we were like, oh my God, thank God. Um, she's alive. Not, oh yeah, there's Judith. Oh, hey Judith. Hey Judith. Yeah. But, but so originally it was about kind of being nervous about who survived and a bunch of reveals.

[00:05:05] Uh, but even aside from that, it was great to check in with everyone else besides the Grimes's and, um, looking at how they all respond to having their world blown up. You know, that was what was interesting about it for me. Plus there was a bunch of little cool moments. And the introduction of Abraham and his gang. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. I felt a lot of affection for this knowing that Rosita is such a big part of the finale. I don't know.

[00:05:33] I felt a lot of affection seeing the three of them turn up again. Um, just in general, like knowing just their characters, um, for me spending a lot of time with them at Walker stalker, especially cutlets, such a great guy, Abraham. Um, and Eugene in particular, I, I don't know if I'll respond to him the same way this time around, but first time I didn't like his character for a while that much, just mostly

[00:06:00] because he talks so cartoony and I don't think any human being actually acts that way. So it took me out of it a lot, probably more than I even, cause I've, I sort of, I think I was like, eh, listeners are probably tired of hearing me say this. So I'll listen to it. I'll mention it less, even though I probably still did mention it sometimes, but over time I found myself really connecting with his storyline in later seasons. And now when I see him, I find, I have a lot of affection for the character.

[00:06:29] And I think Josh McDermott like sticks the landing with that character. Like he's really good in that role. Um, I'm interested. That's one of the bits of the savior arc. I'm not dreading is Eugene's little sojourn with the dark side. Cause that was kind of cool. Um, and he got a lot of shit for that to the point where he like quit his social media. Poor guy. Yeah. I got a bit, I've got to be real. Like, I mean, maybe this kind of takes me into my first point to be honest is I have

[00:06:58] never liked Beth that much. And I feel really bad about this because I'm like, I'm genuinely questioning myself. I'm like, what is it about her that I don't like? And I can't part of me is like, is this internalized misogyny about the fact that she's quite a soft feminine woman and she plays it quite, she's played quite young. She's played quite naive and doied and like idealistic. And you're like, tough it up. You weakling or something.

[00:07:26] Like partly like, is there part of me that's just like, Oh, this bitch. Like one of those, the manic pixie dream girl. Um, so I'm trying to be kinder about that in my rewatch. Cause I'm like, well, what is it actually that bothers me about her? And I have enjoyed her more in season four. And I think what I like about Beth and you see it a bit in this episode, what I appreciate more is that sometimes when you expect her to break down, she doesn't, she just kind

[00:07:56] of looks at you quizzically. Um, but then there are other times where she does show her emotions and break down. And there is emotion there, but it's not a breakdown. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like she's not like holding her. So you can't tell that there's anything going on. You can tell, but she's still sort of pushes through it. Like when Daryl says that thing about like faith didn't do your dad any good. And he's like, Oh yeah.

[00:08:22] I mean, I love that because, uh, she's looking at him like, you didn't just fucking say that, man. That was really rude. And he doesn't even turn to look at her and he can feel it. Yeah. And she's just like, got his back turned and he's like, Oh, that wasn't, that wasn't, that wasn't cool. And then he's like, here have my disgusting handkerchief for your berries. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Um, and I guess the thing that I remember about this era is how much discourse slash shipping

[00:08:52] there was of Beth and Daryl, which I never got on board with. And again, I don't know why, because I'm like sitting there going, I mean, weirder ships have happened, I suppose. And I don't know why I find it so, I don't know. It's just never sat with me. For me, it's because she is such a, she seems like a child, you know? I mean, she's not like totally immature.

[00:09:20] She's wise sometimes, but she just seems like in a different phase of life than him. Well, Jason, funny you should say that because I looked up their ages. Did you know that they have the same age difference that we do? Yeah, but we're both, I mean, it's the opposite with us as far as maturity levels. So I was just laughing because Peter and I had this conversation because we're like, it's an icky age difference. Right. And I'm like, no, I think so.

[00:09:48] Emily Kinney is older than she plays in this. And I think they play her like younger, just left high school, blah, blah, blah. Whereas actually she's going to be 40 this year. And Norman Reedus is. Oh yeah. But it's 15 years later now. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. Older than they play her. Yeah. The age gap we've seen weirder. Maybe not on this show, but they just don't, I don't know. Yeah. I'm not one automatically. I think age gaps aren't automatically bad.

[00:10:18] I feel like, I mean, to, to a degree, there's, there's a level there if you're a certain age, but, um, you know, like her age and, and Daryl, if they were, if she was super mature, fine. And if they've, uh, a white Lotus situation, uh, Chelsea and Rick. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And when I was younger, I mean, it's not just, oh yeah, sure. Jason, you, you'd love to go out with a younger woman. When I was younger, I liked older women and I dated a woman that was much older than me at one point.

[00:10:46] But, um, anyway, I think in this case, it does make sense to me that she would have a crush on him and we'll get to it more when we get to that still episode that Dina's going to come on with. But, um, anyway, that she would have a crush on him and that he would just be like, nah, I don't, it's not right between us, you know? No, I think that's it. And it's, yeah, it's interesting just watching that play out. I remember finding still quite an awkward episode cause I was just like, oh, I would feel like if I was Beth or if I was Daryl, I'd be like, this is the last person out of

[00:11:14] the mix of people in that prison that I would want to be stuck with alone for any extended period of time. Um, but they, they seem to make it work and there's some beautiful moments. Like we open with, um, Beth's diary. I'd kind of forgotten that she keeps the diary, but it's about her talking about the prison era. Yeah. She forgot as well, famously. Um, sidebar. I would love to read a fan fiction or see a tales of the walking dead where someone stumbles

[00:11:41] across the prison and finds the diaries and reads them and learn. Oh yeah. That would be really cool. Um, but we hear her refer to things like Lori's baby is just about due. Um, Herschel thinks that they can stop running, stop scavenging. Um, you could write down wishes to make them come true and she wishes that they'll be able to just live there, but it's intercut over this slow motion of Beth and Daryl running from walkers. We see some mushrooms on a tree, a spider web. I don't know the sense that there's danger out there again.

[00:12:09] And they run into this field and collapse, um, looking up at the sky. And it's just the sense that everything has, has burned down around them. Like it's, it's not that way anymore. And it's, it's really heartbreaking in a way. And then there's this scene where I think they make good use of Daryl being silent, where they're sitting around a fire and Beth is trying to be optimistic. And Daryl's just not saying anything. He's just looking kind of mutinous and sad and just despondent.

[00:12:36] And Beth storms off and Daryl just stamps the fire out and goes after her. Um, and that's not the last we see of them in this episode because we see them falling the tracks, trying to find whoever the fuck Luke and Molly are. I don't know if they're kids or people that lived in the prison. I'm like, I mean, obviously they're not going to be alive. Are they? Um, and my understanding of it was that they have this interaction where he mentions

[00:13:05] Herschel and says, it ain't done shit for us. It didn't do shit for your dad. And then gives like the berry handkerchief of apology. Um, I think they then find Luke and Molly being eaten by the tracks. Oh yeah. We see Beth crying. Cause she's pretty upset. So it seems like she knew them. Yeah. And then we see Beth burning her. That's who they were following. Exactly. And we see Beth burning her notebook or her journal for the fire. And that's kind of really reinforcing that like civilization is done now.

[00:13:33] And we're, we're out on the road again and we're, we're coming back from the start. Um, so yeah, it's Beth and Daryl. It's setting us up well for still. Um, but it is a, I remember thinking this was a funny kind of team up and I'm glad they did it and I'm looking forward to digging back into it, but it is just a strange combination to kind of start the episode with of everyone being scattered. Yeah. I, I think, I mean, I wouldn't say, Oh Beth, I feel warmly towards her.

[00:14:03] Like a lot of viewers did. Yeah. That was clear at Walker stalker when we saw so many, um, cause he seems great. She seems lovely. Like nothing against her. I think she's a good character though. I think, um, she's feels like a real girl and I don't know. I feel like I could be wrong about this, but maybe there's a lot of Emily Kinney that comes through her.

[00:14:28] She's got this sort of a, a strength and a, um, like you said, you know, she doesn't crumble, but she's also kind of delicate in some ways. And that's an interesting combination. Yeah. And there are so many different kinds of strength and it would be really reductive for me to say like Maggie's awesome, badass baller bitch who does all this stuff and Beth crap because

[00:14:57] she sings songs and writes in the journal. Cause like they, they're both strong in different ways, but definitely the first time I watched the show, I really didn't find Beth someone to root for. Um, so looking back at it being more empathetic, I'm like trying to give her a bit more. That's cool. Yeah. A bit more grace. Not everyone can be like, Oh yeah, that person is so inspiring, you know? And I mean, not that she's not, I think she is to a lot of people, but anyway, yeah, she's, she's an interesting character. She's very unique.

[00:15:26] Um, so how about this? Like, I feel like we probably both broke up our points between the groups. Yeah. So you said Beth and Daryl, so I'll do my thoughts on them and then I'll do the next one and you do your thoughts on them and we'll go back and forth. As I was like looking at my notes there, I was like, Oh, um, it is just four acts. Like they didn't even intercut. It makes sense. It's just four things. Yeah, that makes sense. I thought about doing it thematically, but nah. Nah.

[00:15:52] So, uh, so this episode is, uh, is about, um, outlook. I feel like from the characters who are the optimists and who are the pessimists after this big shakeup, the hopeful, the pragmatic, which is hitting close to me, how you feel after a shakeup when you feel like your whole world's been rocked. Yeah. Oh yeah. Um, so, so, and everyone's reactions and their level of hope is informed by their own

[00:16:21] personalities, their histories, and also, you know, who they are connected to and hope is alive and things like that. So I think, yeah, it's interesting that best diary is about optimism and good feelings about the future right after finding the prison. Oh, it's going to be so great here. And man, we might just, I I'm afraid to hope too much, but daddy says you should hope, you know, and, and we should like, if you write down wishes, you can make them come true.

[00:16:51] We can live here. We can live here for the rest of our lives. I thought darkly that did come true for Herschel, but, uh, but it's the bleakness of this show to, to contrast that with the shit storm that their life is right now. It's just the show repeatedly punches at characters in the face as hard as it can. And in hindsight, we know Beth is going to die a really, in my opinion, stupid death. Literally so dumb. It's these cycles of destruction and despair.

[00:17:21] And it started with the destruction of the world, but then just kept having like the quarry camp seemed peaceful, but it was attacked by Zeds. Herschel's farm was peaceful until I think the weather changed and let the Zeds come in and the prison had a nice community and a farm, but then the governor destroyed it. And so this is the first time that we actually get to see them for a while in that in between space, because, uh, after the farm got destroyed, we kind of time jumped and get to see it.

[00:17:50] Um, next comes Alexandria, which of course is more stable, but, um, anyway, so now seeing how they respond to it, like at the campfire, Beth is yelling at Daryl. There could have been other survivors and we should be tracking him. And you said, like, as you said, he's quiet and I think, um, he's like, fuck man. I let myself believe there could be something good in my life and it all went to shit. And he might just need some time to process too. But when she ran off, he seemed like he thought about letting her run off for a second. Yeah.

[00:18:21] It's definitely a moment. He should have been like, okay, we'll track, but not at night, you know, like that's dumb, Beth. But, um, then I was surprised he does start tracking and, and still she's more optimistic. He's pessimistic where like Daryl says about the footprints they're following. They picked up the pace right here. Got it in a hurry. Things went bad. And Beth says, wouldn't you have a little faith? Oh, this is what you already said. Yeah. Faith, faith ain't done shit for us. Sure as hell didn't do anything to your father.

[00:18:49] Um, so I was wondering if you would be more of a Beth or a Daryl in this situation. Weirdly, we were having a conversation about this today about optimism and pessimism. Cause Peter thinks he's a pessimist and that I'm an optimist. I think I'm an anxious optimist. Like I'm worried that things will go bad, but I generally believe that if something goes wrong, it's because something has gone wrong. It's not the default. I'm like, no, people are good. People will do the right thing.

[00:19:18] But then when it doesn't happen, I'm like, there's a reason for that. So I think I would probably be the Beth. Um, but there have been times in my life where I've been a Daryl as well. But yeah, generally I think I would be doing the Maggie Beth thing of like, let's find what's happened. Let's definitively know and do it that way. Let's not assume the worst. Yeah. Let's find out. Yeah. I think that's how I am too. And I would be like, Hey, we don't know. Let's look, let's find out. And we're alive.

[00:19:47] So the other people might be alive too. And I think in part with Beth, that's because she's got people that she cares about mostly, um, Maggie and, um, friends and family have always been important to her. Well, family and same with me. Like I'm friends and family are important to me. So I wouldn't just give up on that. But with Daryl, his family was abusive and he didn't have any friends. So he, he's more quick to be like, no, this is my life.

[00:20:15] Like I'm a loner and I shouldn't have let myself think that it could be any differently kind of thing, you know? Well, when you're brought up in an abusive household like that, yeah, your self-worth is in the toilet a lot of the time. And your default is I don't deserve X, Y, and Z. Yeah. So when it's taken away, it feels like, oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's right. And thinking forward, I think, you know, Beth being with him probably helps him because he's like, okay, well, I gotta, I'm not just gonna ignore this girl. So let's try. Yeah.

[00:20:44] And then when she gets kidnapped, then he's like with the claimers and he kind of does give up on himself. Yeah. That's, that's, Daryl's arc is quite interesting in that respect this, this half season. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I wondered if Beth would become suicidal again, because she says in her journal, if this doesn't work, meaning the prison, I don't know how I could keep going. Hmm.

[00:21:11] And she's like, well, I got stuck with man with sexy arms. So I found a way to survive. The best of it. Try to find some moonshine. I made the most of it. Okay. So next is Tyrese, Lizzie, Mika and Judith. Is this the world's worst babysitting job? Like, I think it might be. This is an interesting group because you've got the tension of Lizzie being around a baby.

[00:21:38] And later you've got the tension of Carol being around the guy whose girlfriend he, she unknowingly killed or she killed him. He doesn't know it. So it's like explosions ready to go off with these guys. That moment in this episode where she kind of realizes when he hugs her and I'm like, why is she being so weird? And I'm like, oh, she's thinking that he might just kill her when she comes out there. And he's like, oh, Carol, it's so good to see you. And she's like, oh, shit. Here's what I think happened.

[00:22:02] She came upon this crazy scenario of Mika holding a gun up to some walkers that are about to eat them. And Lizzie just like totally ignoring the outside world, suffocating a baby. And then she killed the walkers. And she's like, oh, I'm so glad to have found you girls. Let's go. And they're like, oh, we're with Tyrese. He's over here. And she's like, oh, maybe we should go the other way. Like, no, no. What are you talking about? It's Tyrese.

[00:22:30] And she's like, okay, but did he like mention anything about why I've been gone? How's his mood? Do we just say he's good? Bad? Grumpy? Sad face? Does he say anything about me? No, no. He seems fine. All right. Let's go. But so Tyrese hears a scream and he wants to go help. So he leaves three children or two children and a baby alone. He pulled a Rick Grimes. Come on. He did. He did.

[00:23:00] Some of the male caregivers in this show are not a deal. Some of the caregivers will stop. Or just, you know, bring them a little closer to the screams or maybe realize that maybe your highest priority is to take care of this fucking baby right now. I would laugh if like he did all that and then it cut to like Tyrese is actually just like about 10 meters away smoking behind a tree. Like I didn't sign up for this. I didn't sign up for this. And you hear the zombies growling and attacking the kids. And he's like, give me a minute.

[00:23:28] And then you have Lizzie suffocating this fucking baby. And then when the zombies come and Mika screaming at her, she doesn't even see that. She's just all dazed out and wrapped up in what she's doing. Like suddenly it's all changed for her. Like, why was I doing this again? Oh, well, I don't care. Yeah. And then, you know, then Carol saves him. But if Carol hadn't showed up just by this crazy coincidence of a chance, they would probably be dead.

[00:23:58] And it would be Tyrese's fault for leaving kids alone in a zombie infested forest. Yeah. If you take nothing else away from this podcast, you should not leave children on their own zombie infested forest. That's kind of my motto. That's the main message. That's the PSA. Um, it's so, I find the idea of, I think I was trying to remember if it was The Walking Dead or, and it wasn't The Walking Dead, it was A Quiet Place where they create like a soundproof crib for the baby because it can't make any noise. Oh yeah.

[00:24:28] And they know that there's going to be a newborn and that tension level is just unbelievable. And like this, this poor thing is so, oh, it's just, it's such a burden in the apocalypse to have to carry that and to keep her going and surviving. Yes. But of course. And it really adds this layer. And I find watching Lizzie more tense knowing how it ends up. Like, even though I know Judith is going to be fine, exactly what you were saying that moment where she's like, oh, awful. Do you watch MASH? No.

[00:24:58] Oh. The finale of MASH had something like this only it didn't end well, and it was super depressing. And it was in the finale of this show that was like, I think it's the most, um, it had the most viewers of any episode of any drama in history. 70 million people watching this all at once. Is that the one where like, I'm going to describe this really craply. Yeah.

[00:25:24] It, you see the story as though it's about one thing, but then you realize, yeah, you've Yeah. You realize it's actually about something. Yeah. That's, oh, that's dark. Anyway. It's not, we don't need to dwell on it. So what about you? Back to the cheerful Lizzie and Mika storyline. Oh, I just had one more thing. So, Charisse asked Carol, did you see it? And I think he means the attack on the prison, right? Cause she says, I saw the end, which means she like went back to the prison, maybe hoping to get back in or something or what?

[00:25:51] So I think what we learned from, cause we see a bit of Carol's flashback, I think in future episodes, she sees the smoke from the initial explosions and head straight there to see what's happening. Oh. And I think she arrives just as the battle's kind of winding down and then follows the path. Um, that is, that was always my interpretation of it. And that's how she was able to kind of follow and track people. Um, of all the ones to find, it's probably logical that she would find the one with the

[00:26:21] crying baby, but it's, it's yeah. Bit of department of suspension of disbelief. Yeah. But when you mention it that way, like seeing the explosions, then it makes more sense. Cause they make a big deal of, um, the smoke and the fire and stuff like that. And yeah, I'm very certain that in the flashback we get with Carol, we see her like sitting on a cot bed or something reading, and then she sees the smoke and goes towards it to see what's happening.

[00:26:46] But still you'd think cause they, she was, uh, Rick was in a car when they went out on their supply run. So I don't know how far away they went, but it seems like she was heading back towards that way. He left her car. Oh yeah. But okay. So, but like that she was heading back that way. Yeah. Maybe. And I think Tyrese wouldn't have had a chance to notice that she was gone. So he must've just thought that she was gone that long actually. Yeah. It's been less than a day. I think so. I mean, what an exile is like, you've been exiled. Oh, you're back two hours later. Like, Oh fuck. Things went really badly.

[00:27:16] Like, yeah. See what happens when I go Rick. I could've totally handled this. Yep. Anything else about those guys? All right. They find out about Terminus. Oh yeah. First, first Terminus sign. Welcome to Terminus. If you haven't had a chance, look up the robot chicken. Welcome to Terminus musical number. It will be stuck in your head for weeks. Thanks. This episode is brought to you by YouTube.

[00:27:45] Um, Maggie is sharpening her knife on a rock. Um, she's with Bob and Sasha. Um, and she's on a mission to go and find Glenn. Um, because this, the second half of the season has a real through line of Maggie and Glenn trying to find each other. Um, two things about this. Sasha and Bob have great chemistry. I know. I actually really like watching the two of them. Of all the people they tried to match Sasha up with, this was the best one by far. By far.

[00:28:13] Which made it even weirder with Abraham. Yeah. They didn't. No. She and, um, Sonequa Martin-Green and Laurence Galear Jr. are just so good together. I agree. And what I really like is that Bob is actually having quite a nice time. Like everyone else. Yeah, he's great. He's like, I don't know what it is. Like he's been in this really dark place and suddenly everything's blown up and he's with this woman that he clearly cares about a lot. He didn't succumb to drinking.

[00:28:41] He's, he's kind of got renewed purpose. And I really enjoy watching that for him. Um, and Sasha being this kind of pragmatic shit happens. Not everything has to mean something, but Bob being quite romantic almost. And like, you know, insisting they go together. We can't split up. We're going to help Maggie. Maybe his past as a war medic or whatever helped him here. Cause he's used to, maybe he's more comfortable when it's all fucked up. I don't know. Yeah. He can bounce back, you know?

[00:29:10] Um, and we see the broken down bus and Lauren Cohen giving a very strong performance, looking terrified of what she's going to find, um, goes through the walkers one by one. They end up spilling out. We see Maggie freezing in fear and then smashing this Walker to death. Yeah. Glenn isn't there. And then this was pre dumpster. This was pre Negan. This was like, you know, all bets were off. Yeah.

[00:29:35] That is a pretty good Glenn lookalike that they have on the bus when you see him from the back and what he's wearing. And that moment where she stabs him, Lauren Cohen. And I say this as a compliment, her face is crazy. Like she is demented after she. I know. Like what, what happened? Is that him or not? Like, it's like a Joker moment. It's like, she's kind of crying, panicking, smiling, ends in the sort of manic grin, I think. But if you told me it was a grimace, I would also believe you.

[00:30:04] I think that was kind of the point. We were, we were sort of like trying to read it, you know? Yeah. Which, which one is it? And then in a classy move on the walking dead's part, we immediately switched to the next storyline and get the answer to our question. But, um, that bus scene really stuck with me. Um, when I was watching it, I was like, oh yeah, this is, this is a rough one. I, if I was going to nitpick, it's not super clear what happened on the bus or why it broke down or was someone on the bus?

[00:30:33] I was going to ask you to give your fanfic version of the bus from the prison to hear what happened. Yeah. The bus that couldn't slow down. Well, because they seem to recognize the people that are on the bus. So something has to have happened where everyone. They didn't like pick up a bunch of walkers along the way. Yeah, they didn't pick up. It wasn't the bus quite overrun. Yeah, come on, we gotta get the terminus. You're like, what? Um, they won't accept you there. You're not fresh enough.

[00:31:02] My assumption is classic horror film trope. Someone was bit or injured and died on the bus and started fighting people. Yeah. Oh my God. What a scene. I feel robbed now. Why didn't we get to see that? Yeah. Why didn't we see that? But another thing, were there not kids on that bus? I thought it was full of kids, but I don't know. They just disappeared. Maybe I just think... Maybe they're the kids from fear. That's where they ended up.

[00:31:27] I mean, probably a classy move not to show like mass child slaughter, but I am a bit like... They built an airplane and flew to fear the walking dead. They built an airplane and flew to fear the walking dead. Some of them took a beer balloon. End of story. Um, my guess would be if I had to, if I had to make it logically, I'm not sure. Logical within the realms of the show. I'd say someone turned on the bus and all hell broke loose. Yeah. And they couldn't get out for whatever reason. And they were just stuck and it was somebody near the door. Yeah. Oh God, that's so awkward. It's like, oh, not even someone in the back.

[00:31:57] Can I just get by? Ah! No, fuck. Um, that would be my guess, but it's a shame that we never find out. I had it in my head that Glenn had been on the bus, but then he had before it took off and escaped. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we couldn't, we couldn't see that and also have this, uh, tension about whether Glenn's on the bus or not. Yeah, exactly. You know, cause we, if we saw the scene where they all zombied out, then we'd know he wasn't there.

[00:32:21] But you, like you mentioned, um, that we had, you know, nobody's been under the dumpster yet. And I guess it was Veronica, right? Who said there's a few fake outs with Glenn and I hadn't really put that together, but yeah, this is, this is one for sure. Before it became a trope of like, ah yeah. Okay. Like part of me was like, maybe it would have been better if he had died now cause then he wouldn't get killed by Negan, but then we wouldn't have Herschel and they wouldn't have those happy moments in Alexandria. So I only thought it for a minute. And then I stopped.

[00:32:52] Yeah. And there's some good Glenn stuff left, although he is now very much serious Glenn. He's no fun anymore. Yeah. He's boring. Um, but you mentioned, uh, Lauren Cohen did great and I agree. And I think she's maybe for the first time really channeling the kind of Maggie energy that she has after Glenn dies, which sort of makes sense. Cause that's in response to losing Glenn and now she thinks she may have lost him. So she's just more, she's like, I'm going you guys.

[00:33:21] I don't care what you're saying. I'm going, you know, she doesn't say it, but she's like, come with me or not. Whatever. She's just lost her dad as well. And she's essentially lost her sister. She doesn't ever see Beth alive again after this. Um, doesn't defer to anyone. No, no, she goes full Maggie. Yeah. Maggie. Uh, so I think, yeah, Bob and Sasha are kind of a reflection of Beth and Daryl. Bob's more of an optimist. Sasha's if not a pessimist, then at least pragmatic.

[00:33:51] And, um, like Bob saying Tyrese could have made it. And she's like, we don't know if anybody got out. He goes, no, we do. Which means we're here. Let's make the best of it. You may have lost your brother, but come on. Um, come here, honey. And then when, um, yeah, the, as far as the cuteness, uh, Maggie's like, I'm leaving. And Sasha's like, we can't split up now.

[00:34:20] And Bob heads after her and turns back to Sasha smiling. You said it. We can't split up. Yeah. And then when he said he's in pain cause he got shot. Oh. And she goes, if you're trying to make me feel sorry for you, it's not working. And he goes, damn, it means I let myself get shot up for nothing, which is really cute. It's so cute. And then she thinks they should be looking for food and shelter, but he likes looking for Glenn because it's a purpose and he wants to not just survive, but have a reason for living, which I like too. But I think they should also be scouting for food along the way.

[00:34:50] Just kind of do both. I was just, it's interesting because Lizzie and Mika talk about Sasha to Tyrese as well. They're like, you're not like Sasha cause you're here with the implicit thing being that Sasha's probably dead. Yeah. So that's nice. Lizzie's being creepy. Uh, I, I feel like there was talk on the podcast and definitely among the fans about why Maggie wasn't looking for Beth. I think some of the fans were critical of that.

[00:35:17] I can't remember if we were, we might've been, but she does say here, I couldn't find Beth, but I know Glenn got out and I know which way he went. So she's like, I'm doing what I can, you know? Yeah. I guess at that point she knows Glenn got on the bus then realizes he didn't. Yeah. So then all bets are off. So like, yeah. Yeah. But now she's following bus tracks or whatever. Yeah. So I, and just like letting all the Zeds out one by one of the bus was way more dramatic when you didn't know whether Glenn was alive.

[00:35:44] You know, we're not sure, as I said at the top, who's alive and who's not. So it's a lot of reveals, but when you think about it, turns out all the series regulars made it out. So pretty much everyone's alive. Just those, um, Luke and Molly, what do you call it? Uh, red shirt. Uh, yeah. Red shirt. Are all gone. That's it. I'm Luke and Molly. RIP man. Red onesies. No, that's awful. Red onesies. Okay. Okay.

[00:36:14] Uh, now it's my turn, right? So Glenn and Tara. Yeah. Yeah. So then, yeah, as you said, Maggie clears the bus. We weren't sure if she just killed Glenn, but then we get the reveal that Glenn's alive back in the prison, which sort of gave, I'm like, Oh, back in the prison. It gave me a feeling like when you move out of a house, but you have to go back and check that you didn't leave anything or whatever. And it's just feels like this ghost of a place. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:39] Uh, he gets the right gear, which I think was a bad-ass the, how he looked in it. And I think, you know, he lays down to rest, which we got to remember, he's still getting over this sickness, which just happened like a couple of days ago or something. And, uh, but then he sees the picture of Maggie, which gets him up and going. And then I love that POV shot of him barreling through that group of zombies all around. So cool. Yeah. It's really cool. I really liked that.

[00:37:04] Uh, finds Tara right away, finds out she didn't fire a shot cause her magazines full. Although what if she just reloaded? But I guess he asked her and she said yes. And he believed her. And I'm like, yeah, she's lucky Glenn's the one to find her because he's wise enough to know that things aren't always black and white. So he can quickly read the signs that, yeah, she doesn't look happy that this happened. She didn't even fire. I need help.

[00:37:30] So he's, and then when she tells him that the governor killed Herschel, I think in that moment, maybe he did, he was in shock and despair, but also maybe there was a bit of, oh shit, maybe I shouldn't be hanging out with this woman who was on the other side, but he got over it quick. Well, he gives her a chance to prove herself by saying that Herschel is Maggie's father and that's who he's looking for now.

[00:37:56] So yeah, it's a kind of chance for Tara of Woodbury to show her quality. Yeah. There you go. Lord of the Rings referencing. Um, but yeah, he gives her a fair goal. And he's another hopeful one. He's like, you know, how do you, she's like, how do you know your wife made it? I don't know, but Herschel, Maggie's father was a great man and he told me all I had to do was believe and that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. So that was a nice, good Glenn moment. Yeah. He's so sweet.

[00:38:26] He's so nice to Tara. So many people owe their lives to Glenn. Like when you look back, you're like, oh, um, I don't have much to add. It's interesting to see him go back into the prison and grab things, um, put things into the orange backpack of doom. Oh yeah. That's the one, right. Um, and Steven Yeun's just so lovely when he sees Maggie's photo and cries a bit and kind of gives him the spirit to get up and push out and do it.

[00:38:53] Um, the Molotov cocktail is quite clever. I couldn't figure out why they were focusing in on that bottle of cognac. And I was like, hmm. Um, but the way that he distracts the Zeds with the Molotov cocktail is pretty smart. Um, it seems really cool this week. It's very cool. Yeah. We see the hitchhikers maybe escaping inmates sign. Um, I do a little continuity thing with Tara where she says, you know, all I saw was my sister in that field. She had a gun, but they just swarmed her.

[00:39:21] I'm just like, clearly they couldn't get the actress who played Lily to come back and get murdered. Um, yeah, it's like, or they just didn't bother, but it was weird not to see it. But also Tara doesn't know that Megan's dead. I don't think does she? I mean, she must assume it if Lily came back with a gun without Megan, but it's one of those things where I'm like, she doesn't know for sure. Did she not know? Um, I think. I mean, they could like spend a whole half season going around looking for Megan like they did with Sophia.

[00:39:50] Glenn's like, I'm shutting it down now. This never ends well. She's probably dead. Okay. Just don't worry about it. But there's this girl, Lizzie. Remember how Herschel said to believe? Well, I believe she's dead. So yeah, we believe unless it's children, in which case. Um, Glenn, I like that he keeled over that, you know, clearly he's still not fully well, because I remember being a bit critic. I was like, these people who were like pure dying of the flu and getting intubated two days ago. Up and about.

[00:40:19] Um, and then of course, a military truck appears and Tara says, hope you enjoyed the show assholes. And, uh, Abraham comes out and says, you got a damn mouth on you. You know that. What else you got? Peter asked me and I was interested in this because I think it will come up, um, in the next couple of episodes. Is this a turning point for the show? Does the show at this point become more comic booky and less grounded with the introduction of Abraham and Rosita and Eugene? Yes.

[00:40:48] Or is it just where the show is going anywhere? Or do you think this is the, the, the point in which it. I think it is because the governor, um, was so unlike comic book governor and. Yeah. Cause he had a, literally a mustache that he could twirl if he wanted to, you know? Yeah. And, uh, and this governor was a lot more, um, a lot more subtle, believe it or not. Yeah.

[00:41:10] And, um, so when we see these characters right out of a page of the comic book and I mean, honestly, to me, they didn't look as comic booky as I remembered. And I think that's because of what you just said. It is a turn for the show where it becomes more comic key. We get Negan with this red scarf, leather jacket and barbed wire bat. We get the whispers, you know? And plus we've seen all these characters for seasons now the tiger. Yeah. So now they don't.

[00:41:35] I mean, the thing that looks the most jarring is seeing Rosita in her skimpy outfit because she didn't really dress like that later. But I was, I was expecting it to feel like it did when I first saw it where it's like, wow, it feels really comic booky, but it almost didn't to me now. But anyway, to answer your question. Yeah. I do think it is a turn. Yeah. It felt more like friends coming back. I was like, Oh yeah, they're here. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I'm excited to see more of them and to see them integrate into the show, especially Rosita.

[00:42:05] I think Peter said, you know, Rosita actually ends up with a really good arc and you sort of creeps up on you. You don't expect it, but it, you know, it really does grow. And I'm like, yeah, I think she does. She's so good in the finale and she's just great. Yeah. Her and Josh McDermott knocked it out of the park in the finale. Yeah. The two of them together. Oh my God, it was so good. Um, so yeah, it's great to have them here. I'm glad they turned up. Forgot this was the episode they got introduced. So yeah, it was nice to see them. Yeah.

[00:42:32] I think I, I read it in someone's comment, so I was waiting for it. Um, that's it. I, I, yeah, I've already said everything I had to say about them. I had one more point. Do you have any more? No, I'm done. Okay. Just about terminus. So they see the first terminus sign. It says sanctuary for all community, for all those who arrive, survive terminus. And. You know, like I said, there's a lot of optimism versus pessimism here.

[00:42:58] And this sign terminus, it doesn't sound good. It sounds like this is where something terminates. Like could be your life. But if you're optimistic, it's like, this place is the final place you'll need to go because it's so great. It's safe. And, um, you know, they're all in up shit Creek right now. So they, it's great to introduce this possibility of hopeful possibility because they need something. They need shelter. Um, but man, this is walking dead. Sophia came out of the bar and we should have known right away.

[00:43:29] It's going to be at it. It's the worst. It's fucking cannibals. It's another punch in the face. Yeah. It'll terminate your life and your appetite. About terminus, uh, chat GPT says terminus was the original name for Atlanta, Georgia in the 19th century. Yes. It was established as a railroad hub where multiple rail lines converge, making it a key transportation center.

[00:43:53] The name terminus literally means end of the line, which is a connection to, uh, fear the walking dead in our favorite song. Yeah. So, so, uh, what else about terminus? Uh, this dying guy told Carol and Tyrese, you know, the guy that got bitten. There's a place up the road. It's up the tracks. It's safe. Trust me. What's that all about? What? What could he do? Yeah. He's alive. So he, is he just like, I trust me, trust me.

[00:44:23] Cause it's gotta be right. Cause I read the signs or is he a termite who's lying? He's like, I don't know if he's going to send out weird missionaries who then gain. I mean, I wouldn't put it past them to do like what Eric are doing. Yeah. Maybe. And he's like, I'll do him one last solid before I die here and send him some food. Yeah. I actually could believe that. Like I genuinely could. Um, right. I mean, Gareth ran a tight ship. What can I say? He knew what he was doing. He is super organized with clipboards. Say what you like about Gareth. He was a good manager.

[00:44:53] I love Gareth. Um, Terminus, uh, I mean, we'll talk a lot about them, but a thought, a couple of thoughts that came up is they were kind of asking to be fucked with because you put up signs to lure people in. You're going to find some people that you wish hadn't come, you know, at some point like Carol. They were under the illusion that they could control. Yeah. Playing with fire.

[00:45:21] And, and also just that they became this group of cannibals. Um, I'll save this for later cause we'll be talking about them later. So forget that. Okay. What about notes? Um, I have no notes. I just have my IMDB and my timeline. Okay. I have a few. Uh, I, I thought it was cool that Daryl knew which tracks were Walker tracks and I guess it wouldn't be too hard because they like drag their feet probably shuffle around.

[00:45:46] Um, we were, this is the start of people walking along train tracks for the next few episodes. And I think one reason why I like that is I just have warm feelings about people walking on train tracks after one of my favorite movies, stand by me. Stand by me. You're going to say stand by me. Yeah. Train track. It's really good. And then also just seeing Abraham and Eugene and Rosita reminds me of how at Walker stalker,

[00:46:12] the groups of actors who came in together tended to hang out. So you get those three hanging out a lot. You get the prisoner guys hanging out later, like Luke magnet. Um, Connie. Yeah. Kelly. Yeah. Hanging out. So that was kind of fun to watch. Were they, was it quite sad when Kudlitz was killed off? Was that like a vibe you got? Yeah. I mean, he was such. Or he kept going to cons, right? Yeah. He was such a big presence at the cons.

[00:46:41] He, after that comment Abraham made about Bisquick with Glenn, he would bring the food bank. Bisquick food bank thing. And he just had the best panels and big lines and just a great guy. So after Abraham died, I think. Yeah. Oh, after anyone died, their lines would be super long at the convention. The next, the next Walker stalker, whether they usually had long lines or not. So he just got more popular at the convention after that.

[00:47:09] It felt like Steven John was pulling away from conventions prior to Glenn's death. Like it felt like he was less. Yeah. He would go less, but he still went regularly though. Yeah. But he would go less. I think Kudlitz is just great. Like I, I always felt bad that his death is kind of overshadowed by Glenn's. Um, you know, it was double misery. Um, but yeah, that's cool. I'm glad that he was a cool guy to hang out with.

[00:47:34] Um, I, for IMDB, Terminus is the original name of Atlanta. Don't know if you knew that, which is the capital of Georgia where the series is set. Boom. Um, many past and present cast members came to watch the final prison shoot because it was the last one at that location. A co-executive producer said it was like saying goodbye to a character. Hmm. Interesting. Trivia question. The town highlighted on the map as Terminus is which town?

[00:48:03] Is it Macon? Yeah. I can't remember how to say it. So I was making you say it. It's like bacon. Macon, Macon, Macon. I didn't know that. Um, five sets of twin girls have played the role of Judith. Um, but for more intense scenes, stunt dolls are used. Although I mean, there was a shot with Lizzie's hand that did not look like a stunt doll. I mean, Lizzie had her hand on the baby and the baby was like trying to get it away. It looked like. Oh, it's really upsetting.

[00:48:31] Like, wait, you're not really supposed to be doing that. Oh. Um, first appearance of Sergeant Abraham Ford, Dr. Eugene Porter and Rosita Espinosa. Um, the backpack that Glenn Paxson takes with him is the same one that belonged to the hitchhiker that Rick Carl and Michonne passed on the road in episode 312. Clear. I always thought it was so weird that that kept showing up because to me it's just a reminder of when they were total fucking assholes. But I don't know if the point is supposed to be like, this is when they weren't trying to help people.

[00:49:01] Yeah. I don't know. It's a weird one, right? Yeah. Um, and from this episode until 416a, Judith Grimes is portrayed by Alicia DeFranco and Eleora DeFranco. They replaced previous twins, Anniston, Price and Tinsley Price. So a slightly different baby. Yeah. I remember my first panel with them. It would be like, so how is it when Lizzie put your hand on your mouth and they'd be like ehhhhhhhhh. Just giving her the finger and then crying.

[00:49:32] Putting their feet in their mouths like. Yeah. Just took a dump right on stage. I did laugh at Lizzie just throwing the nappy into the woods. It's like, just like, oh, I'm like, yeah, fair enough. It's the end of the world. Um, timeline wise, these episodes take place on January 30th and 31st. So January 30th is day 524, which is the day the prison falls. So we see some stuff from that day. Um, and then the 31st.

[00:50:01] So we see Daryl and Beth overnight. Um, the next day, the day after that is the 31st, which is day 525. Um, which is also Carl's pudding day. Nice. So it's all happening in that kind of little bit of time there. But I think all our plot lines are on the same day. Now we've all caught up. Cool. Only on The Walking Dead would grown men regularly leave little kids alone in zombie infested forests. Quite accurate.

[00:50:28] Only on The Walking Dead would being a babysitter literally be the worst job in the world. I mean.

[00:51:26] All right, we're back. It's time for Lister Moans, Growns and Grunts. Matt King says, great to see Glenn again. Probably the most likable character across the whole series. And seeing the arrival of Eugene, Abraham and Rosita, who brought so much new energy to the show. Abraham and Glenn losing 2-0 to Negan's home runs is still one of the worst decisions in the show. Lizzie is just so detached.

[00:51:54] And what the hell was Tyrese doing leaving her and Mika with Judith so he could go off for a bit of action? Quite right, Matt. Although I read that as like a bit of like action. Yeah. So, you know. Great to see Carol appear just in time, though the look on her face when Tyrese approached, probably not sure if Rick had grassed her up. Terminus incoming, buckle up. Yep. Love that energy. Yeah, yeah.

[00:52:18] Nathan Eshelman says, this is no knock against the show, but I remember the introduction of Abraham's army being the first time new characters had overtly comic book energy. Between Abraham's larger than life attitude and Eugene's allegedly classified knowledge, the group thinks they're going on a mission to potentially save the world, which is often a quest partaken in comic book narratives. This adds an exciting new element to the day-to-day survivalism, which despite the zombies has felt grounded and realistic up to this point. Right.

[00:52:45] I remember that it was around this time I decided to start reading the comics. The introduction of Abraham's army was a big deal among comic fans. That's what they would call the panels with those guys, by the way, Abraham's army. I was trying to remember. I was like, they had a name. It's like, Abe and the gang. And I'm like, Abraham's army, that's the one. Yep. And I wanted to start being a part of the conversations where people with comic knowledge speculated on future episodes. Comic talk at the end of your podcast episodes may have been an influence as well.

[00:53:13] Hope you enjoyed the show, assholes. Oh. Cool, Nathan. Love it. Okay. Here's a call from Sierra from Ontario. Hey, Lucy and Jason. This is Sierra calling you back from Ontario, Canada. Yay. Yo. Thanks so much for playing my call a few episodes back. To be honest, I've been meaning to get back to you guys sooner.

[00:53:42] But basically, my partner and I have started watching fear as of recently. Oh, no. Yeah, no. And I've just been trying to catch up with the episodes of the podcast corresponding with the episodes that I'm watching. And that's been fun. So yeah, I've just been a little busy. Thanks to you guys. Yeah. I was kind of reluctant to start watching fear. I'm sure. All the enough, it was actually my partner that suggested it. He's.

[00:54:11] To not be that big of a fan of the whole. Just kidding. Zombie thing. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe I changed his mind. But yeah, I was like I was saying, I was kind of reluctant because. Well, for one, my dad was watching it when it aired and then eventually just kind of gave up on it. And I remember hearing from you guys that.

[00:54:40] Well, it seemed anyway that you had positive feelings about the show more towards like the beginning. And then that kind of went on a decline after like Nick and Madison left. And that's honestly how I'm feeling right now. Yeah. Uh, I'm on. I can tell you which episode, but I'm in season five right now. And honestly, ever since.

[00:55:08] Uh, I don't know the beginning of. Season four. It's it hasn't been. I haven't been as engaged with the show. Not going to lie, but I'm still intrigued, I guess, to see where it goes. Um, I actually started reading the comics recently as well. Um, I just finished volume 10. So yeah, uh, thanks to you guys.

[00:55:37] I'm like just super, I don't know, locked in with this whole franchise. I guess. And yeah, it's been interesting. Um, initially I was listening to the comic talks, but I had to stop after I started reading them cause I don't want to, of course, spoil too much. Uh, comics are great. Yeah. Uh, big fan, big fan, you know, better late than never. Right. Yeah.

[00:56:05] It's really fun to hear someone discovering all this right now. Yeah. Cool. I love it. Half the time that happens, it's because they were only seven years old when it started. I know. Uh, you feel so old. You're like, okay. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you know this Sierra, but, um, fear the walking dead started off with being run by this guy, Dave Erickson.

[00:56:33] And before season three even started, the ratings were kind of going down. So they, I think that's why AMC announced after this season that you're about to see where we're going to have new show runners. So we watched all of season three knowing it was going to be the last season with this guy, Dave Erickson at the helm. And we were like, Oh man, this is really good. But it's bad, but hopefully it'll be better. And then they just announced they were bringing Morgan in. And that's when, uh, Ian, Ian Goldberg and Adam Chambliss came in. Is that their names? I think it is.

[00:57:02] Chambliss. Shamliss. And, um, that's why it's does. It's no surprise at all that it started to feel different at the beginning of season four, because that's when they came in and they did something that I always don't like when new writers come into something, whether it's a comic book or a show, they just kind of have no respect for what came before. And they say, we want to put our own stamp on this and do completely our own thing. And I mean, if they're good, I, that's what I was thinking. If, if you guys are good, then fine.

[00:57:29] But it, I hate to say this, but it just got worse and worse. And if you are listening to me and you made it to season six and you're like, there's no way it could have been worse than that. Jason. Yeah, totally. No, it was. I would worse than beer balloons. Yes. I would pay such good money to know what Goldberg and Chambliss had on AMC or what, what contract they had to kept them employed.

[00:57:57] Like I just, so many great shows are canceled after like one or two seasons. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know. Um, but if you, so if you do continue to want to hear us talking about it at some point, you're going to have to sign up for Patreon because we decided we were so negative about it that we didn't want to put that out, keep putting that out to the world. And also we just didn't want to quite spend as much time on it.

[00:58:22] So we switched over to Patreon and started calling our episodes, uh, round table rants. And I would invite different people in and we would just eviscerate the show. And it was, we tried to have fun with it, but we did eventually, I think, end up covering every single episode one way or another. It was cathartic. Um, Deborah Ulmer says, dear Jason and Lucy, it's so interesting to see the different sets of people in how our group is split up.

[00:58:50] Even though in universe, everyone is only separated for a short time, who each other ends up being with is an important dynamic for them. What happens with everyone's relationships during this will affect each of their characters moving forward for the rest of their time on the series. I thought it was a great contrast, the way they put Beth's narration of the hopefulness of finding the prison over showing her and Daryl's struggle in the aftermath of the fall. It makes that opening so much sadder when you pay attention to her words.

[00:59:16] Another thing that was really powerful in this episode and the ones to come is Maggie and Glenn's unwavering love in having belief that each other is alive. They won't let anyone get in their way to find them. I never get tired of rewatching this half of the season because you get to see the range of emotions and how our people react to situations. How our people react to the situations they're experiencing leading up to them reuniting. As always, y'all take care. Thanks, Deborah. You too. Thanks, Deborah. Take care. Becky Anderson says, I love the opening.

[00:59:46] Beth and Daryl running for their lives while we get the voiceover of Beth discussing hope, the prison and finding joy where they are. Beth and Daryl are my favorite pairing this season. I shall call them Beryl. I like Beryl. It's their moments together that made Beth my favorite character until her demise. I forgot Lizzie was going to suffocate Judith. I wonder how much Carol saw before she approached them. Yeah, I don't know.

[01:00:11] I get the feeling she didn't really see, which would be believable given that she's trying to kill zombies to save them, you know? Yeah. But who knows? This part of the season is where I envy people seeing it for the first time. Knowing what comes soon takes some of the oomph out of it, I agree. But I do like moments I forgot about, like Eugene, Abraham and Rosita showing up at the end. Crazy things going on, so I leave you with this amazing quote from Herschel. Quote, if you don't have hope, what's the point in living? Let's all hang on to hope that though things may get worse, they will eventually get better.

[01:00:41] Much love. Ah, you're here, Becky. Thank you. I like that, Becky. And Rachel responded to her saying, the officially unofficial name for Beth and Daryl in the fandom and fanfiction world is Bethel. Not that I have read hours and hours of Bethel fanfic or anything, but maybe I have. They're my favorite too. Oh, good intel. All right, here's a call from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve and this is going to be for The Walking Dead season four episode.

[01:01:11] Is it 10? Mm-hmm. Uh, inmates. Oh, so we don't pick up right at the, where the last one lifted off with, with Michonne knocking on the door. So the mystery of whether she returned the shoe or not is still up in the air. Start with Beth. Oh, she's given us a previously on. Oh, I noticed Daryl retrieved his arrow from that one that he just killed that, uh, that was about to get Beth. Fortunately, none of that was true. Assume she doesn't have that journal with her. On off into the dark in the middle of the night, uh, Beth is not a good idea, but okay. Daryl's going after her.

[01:01:41] Oh, harsh Daryl. Faith didn't do anything for her father. That's not right. Look between them. You can tell he regrets what he said. Okay. Beth needs to improve her listening skills. That Walker wasn't even a ninja walker. He was making a lot of noise. I guess she did make it out with the journal. Of course, she's burning some of the pages of it though. Oh, and we catch up with Lizzie and Mika. That's the little girl's names. Oh, and we get to see that little Judith is alive. Oh, okay. Was Lizzie killing something under that tree? And that's what we saw, um, Beth walk past earlier a few moments ago.

[01:02:09] And Lizzie just casually tosses the diaper away. Oh, and Mika already realizes that Lizzie doesn't understand walkers. Not really. Okay. So Tyrese helped some people there at the train tracks. That wasn't the same group though that, uh, Rick and, that Daryl and Beth found, right? And Tyrese and Mika and Lizzie, I'm getting confused all these different characters. All alone. Oh, careful Lizzie, not too tight. Oh, okay. So Mika fired the gun and that's what's going to make Tyrese run back to help them. And hopefully Lizzie lets up on Judith. Okay. So that's why Tyrese just left in there. Cause they all got killed. No, Carol found him.

[01:02:39] Carol found the girls. Oh, and this guy knows about terminus. So he told him to go up the tracks. See, this shows how close our groups really are. Oh, Carol doesn't tell Tyrese that Rick managed her just that she was out scavenging. Well, now we get to see Maggie. Oh, and I noticed Michael Cudlitz, uh, Josh McDermott and Christine Sperados' names in the credits this time. So I think we get to see, uh, see them this, this time, right? We get a snippet of Maggie, uh, Sasha and Bob. Oh, the roadside says inmates title of the episode.

[01:03:06] I don't know if it's really a mic drop because it's sad, but hitchhikers may be escaping inmates. Oh, they found the bus. Oh, and it's full of walkers. Oh, but they got to find out if Glenn is in there or not. Oh, and Maggie just smashing that one's head against the bus. Oh, but then the, I'm sorry. Oh, Maggie's still got to check it though. The bus, I mean. And of course they fake us out with one that has hair like Glenn, but isn't Glenn. Of course we get a non-existent commercial break that comes back with Glenn being alive at the prison.

[01:03:33] Oh, this is bad with just the lantern to see he's got to make it through the prison now. Oh, and he found the riot gear and he found Maggie's picture. Hey, is that the orange backpack? Believe it is. Oh, and he found Tara just sitting there dejected. Oh, shows Glenn's character, even though he recognizes Tara was one of them he knows he needs her help to get out. Oh, and there's a sign again. Hitchhackers may be escaping inmates. Inmates, the title of the episode. Are they really still inmates if they're escaping? Oh, okay. So Lily or Tara just said, Lily, her sister was overrun by walkers. Wow.

[01:04:02] I'm choked up between this, this scene between Glenn and Tara, uh, Elena Maston and Steven you and just wonderful. And I'm, oh, and I'm going long. Sorry. I have to believe. And there they are. Oh, at the end of the episode. All right. On to next week. Inmates who escape are called outmates. I think. Steve mentioned something that I forgot about, which is Lizzie doing weird shit to rabbits.

[01:04:27] Um, and there is a scene where they focus in on a log and I couldn't figure out what was stuffed in it. If it was dead rabbits or blood kids toys. So he might be on rabbits. Oh yeah. Yeah. And also just how he was like, oh yeah. Um, Mika does understand that Lizzie thinks differently about walkers or whatever. I think. Yeah.

[01:04:51] When Mika and Carol and Lizzie were in a scene earlier this season and Mika said she's messed up. And I'm like, yeah, Mika spends more time with Lizzie than anyone. And she knows her better than anyone. And who knows what she's had to hear from Lizzie all that time, you know, she knows. Mika's looking out for her sister a lot. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Their sisters. Yeah. It's gotta be tough for poor kid.

[01:05:19] Oh, um, who've we got next? We've got Billy Thompson. Hello. Hello. Hope you guys are well. Not much to say on this episode. Felt like a really quick episode. Seemed to be over before I knew it. A few thoughts though. First off, Lizzie holding her hand over Judith's mouth actually made me feel sick. Yep. I guess it was because the writers wanted us to know she's completely lost the understanding of life and death, but it wasn't nice to see. We get to see the first terminus sign in this episode.

[01:05:45] My missus has a really cool handle that has Glenn go to terminus on it, which I, a really cool hoodie, not a handle. I'm so sorry, Billy. A really cool hoodie that has Glenn go to terminus on it, which I always think of when rewatching the terminus episodes. That sounds like, I forget, like that's what Maggie wrote, right? Yeah. She writes it on a building, but when you forget that that's, that happened, it just seems really mean. Like Glenn go to terminus. You know what, Glenn? You know what? You just go to terminus.

[01:06:13] I've had it up to here with you. Billy says, I think this episode must have almost completely slipped my mind because I had no idea this is how Tara became involved in the group. This episode just makes me love Glenn even more. He had absolutely had the right to leave Tara and to just leave Tara and go look for Maggie, but it is just not in his nature. A Brzee to Eugene are introduced in this episode. What the fuck? That almost completely slipped my mind.

[01:06:40] I thought I would ace most Walking Dead quizzes, but after this episode, I'm not so sure. Anyway, onto the next. Thanks guys. Bye. Bye. I would love to have another trivia night soon. Yeah. We, it's been a while, huh? And maybe a Walking Dead would be fun. Yeah, do one like the UK time zone and then the US time zone and see which. Yeah. In the discord, Nathan, half jokingly, or I think all said we should do a fear one sometime, but that might actually be kind of fun. I don't know if I'd remember any of it. I would not study for it.

[01:07:10] I will not study. You can't make me. What shape a balloon? Andy Fisher says, dear J. Lou, doesn't the second part of the season strike you as a dark Wizard of Oz analogy? I don't know. I'm intrigued though. The wonderful, amazing cast of The Walking Dead gathering their courage and walking down the road to Terminus slash Oz. Oh, of course. Yeah. Rewatching season four and listening to your commentary really helps me figure out why it moves me so much.

[01:07:39] It's seeing people so battered by the world, ripped away from their families and friends and tossed into an unforgiving, brutal world, but still having the courage to continue. Absolutely. And like the Wizard of Oz, there is no there there, no wizard, no salvation. But it would have been a different movie if he would have ended up being a cannibal. Yeah. But it's close. Yes. Friends to walk the road with you if you're lucky and you're going to need every ounce of courage to make it through.

[01:08:06] And this season ends with my favorite line ever written or spoken on TV. Rick trapped in the train car. No, they're going to feel real stupid when they find out they're fucking with the wrong people. Long live The Walking Dead. PS, any information about a spinoff series being developed for fear of The Walking Dead? What? Oh God, I hope not. No. That's great, Andy. I like that Wizard of Oz thing. Yeah, totally. I like that a lot.

[01:08:31] We've got Rachel Teal Edwards who says, the writing and flow of this episode is flawless. I agree with Billy. It was over so quickly. It's perfection. The way we get these vignettes for each group, moving from Beth, who's worried about the children, to the surviving children who are safe with Tyrese, who wonders about his sister, who's actually alive, with Maggie, who's searching for her husband, who's back at the prison. Matthew Negretti and Channing Powell truly show what an art form writing can be. Bethel.

[01:09:00] They're just the intro this week, but what a snapshot of their dynamic. The running, the struggle, sweaty and filthy, and a glimpse already of what we'll see in the coming episodes. Daryl is hopeless, crushed, defeated, and immediately goes back to what was familiar before he found his family and his place in the world. Survival is the only thing that matters. Beth doesn't accept this. Full of stubborn hope and knowing there's more to living than simply surviving, she pulls him out of this dark place for the first time by making the executive decision to go looking for survivors.

[01:09:29] I remember being dubious about this pairing the first time I watched it, but I came to love these two characters together more than anything. Tyrese, Lizzie and Mika. The big reveal! Judith lives! What a memorable moment that is. Who wouldn't feel safe in Tyrese's arms? He plays in over his head but ready to kill for these kids so damn well. Ugh, Lizzie. I almost can't watch that scene where she's on the verge of suffocating Judith. It's so disturbing. I'm like, how did they film that? Ugh, I hate it. Sasha, Bob and Maggie.

[01:09:58] Another dynamic I adore. Bob becomes so lovable over these next few episodes. I love the way he challenges Sasha and despite being sweet on her, doesn't cater to her more cynical thoughts. Yeah. His optimism and commitment to staying together and helping Maggie is what we all need right now. Yeah, let me say something about that. Yeah, I agree. I think it's great how he tries to get her to enjoy and he's kind of being, you might

[01:10:26] think he's doing it because he's trying to get something from her but then like you said, he won't let her get away with certain things. So then you realize, no, that's not what it's about. It's just fun. Yeah, he just loves her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At a time when hopelessness and defeat could dominate the vibe of this show, we get these beautiful characters who are hopeful, optimistic, stubborn, determined and resilient. Glenn and Tara.

[01:10:52] I never realized until this rewatch that Glenn's scene at the prison is reminiscent of Rick waking up in the hospital. Steven Yeun does such a good job communicating so much through his facial expressions and body language without speaking a word. The whole scene conveys the hopelessness and anxiety and desperation of the situation so well. Plus, it really shows just how creepy the prison is now that it's destroyed, abandoned and overrun. Watching it again, I really felt a bit of panic for Glenn but love and hope motivate him to arm her up and fight his way out.

[01:11:22] Alana Masterson is so good in this scene as well, just absolutely dependent and lost. Such fantastic scenes between Glenn and Tara. Plus, damn she is a badass shooting her way out with such precision. I'm so glad she's on our team now. Plus, it all ends with my absolute favorite character entrance. Abraham has arrived. Hope you enjoyed the show assholes. I still remember watching that scene for the first time thinking what the fuck do we have here now? Thank you so much for doing this rewatch, Jason and Lucy. It's such a joy to come back to every week.

[01:11:52] Oh, thank you, Rachel. Thanks for being a part of it. Rachel. I was chatting with her today and I think I convinced her, because she's about to go into labor pretty soon here, that she'll have plenty of time once she starts labor to watch an episode and write us comments before she gives birth. I think so. Yeah. It'll be a good coherent critique. I can't wait. I hope that actually happens. And as Tara, one thing I forgot to mention too is she seems very, she's guilt ridden,

[01:12:21] she's very humble and just sorry about everything that just happened in her part in it. And that feels so unlike, I mean, it makes sense for her cause she's a good person, but when she's in her normal mode where something like that didn't just happen, she's not like that at all. She's kind of, you know, she has a lot of what's the word I'm looking for? Quirky or not quirky remarks, like comments and things like that, you know, that are funny. Yeah.

[01:12:50] And, but then at the end here, when she says, hope you enjoyed the show assholes. I'm like, oh, that's the Tara. We know. Yeah, exactly. Assholes. All right. Here's one more call from Renee. Renee. Hi guys. This is Renee calling. Besides Rick and Michonne, Daryl would be next in line for me to get lost with someone in the woods doing the ZA.

[01:13:15] Although if I needed a hug or words of encouragement, he would definitely be liking in that department. It's like, Daryl, give that little baby a hug. Let her know that everything is going to be okay. I wanted to go through the TV and get the little baby a hug. And Lizzie, the little psychopath. Yeah. What was it that she was cutting? When she was, it was, I don't know, a rat, a bird or something.

[01:13:41] And it's like, do you guys think that she was going to some other Judith? Because I do. The little girl clearly is a psychopath. Yeah. And Tyrese, oh, Tyrese is so sweet. He is so innocent. And when he turned around and he was holding Judith, I mean, the first time I saw it, of course, I knew what was going to happen now. But the first time, I mean, I screamed, I was so freaking happy. I did not know what to do.

[01:14:05] And Maggie, people in this fandom are psycho because they're always saying that Maggie did not care about Beth. All she cared about was Glenn. And clearly in this episode, Maggie said that she couldn't find Beth. So that means that she looked for her sister. And now she's going to look for her husband. And I don't see anything wrong with that. And Maggie and Beth is like, you would think they were real, real sisters in real life because they walk identical.

[01:14:34] I have five brothers and two of my brothers, they walk identical. And Maggie sit in that bus. When I tell you that bus was horrible, blood was everywhere. It was good. The gore. It was just awful. And Maggie just sat down. That's how you know her nerves were so bad because it's no way. It's like, ew. And Politar, she felt so guilty about what happened. It's like she was just sitting there looking all sad and in despair, which I think that she just gave up. Like, you know, if I die, I just die.

[01:15:04] And I'm so glad that Glenn went back and, you know, helped her. And did you also notice that Glenn said he believed? I believe. And I love that because that just made me think about little RJ when he said that he believed. And it was such a big hoopla about RJ saying that and how he sounds so corny. But when Glenn said it, evidently, I've never heard anything about that, you know, in the past. So good point. It's okay for a grown man to say, I believe. And it sounds cute.

[01:15:33] But when a little baby say, I believe it sounds corny. Get the heck out of here. Okay. Rosita, my girl. Now they was wrong for putting on those Daisy Dukes in that crop top. I know you guys said that comes straight off the comic book page, but listen, it would not be the zombies to take them out with them wearing stuff like that. Even down with the, with the muscle shirt, Abraham with the muscle shirt, it would be the mosquitoes and the gnats. When I tell you the bugs here are horrendous.

[01:16:01] They're like something that you have never ever experienced in life. Alrighty. I will talk to you guys later. Peace and love. Bye. Bye. Bye. Renee. She reminded me talking about Beth. So we were saying Beth and Daryl. Beth is more optimistic. She's like, we're going to find people. I'm going to get this food because they're going to be hungry and all that.

[01:16:25] And then just to think about it, she ends up, I mean, she's kind of on her own for a whole season because she left the prison in season four, episode eight. And I think her death is season five, episode eight. And she never finds anybody that whole time, you know, and it's really sad. And I'm just like, okay, so the, the, the optimistic hopeful one gets that. And then the pessimistic Daryl gets his own spinoff and lives forever. Wait, wait.

[01:16:54] He gets to go to France. I'm going to France in a couple of weeks. Oh, cool. Are you going to go to, um, Mont Saint-Michel? I can't. I don't have time to go to Mont Saint-Michel. It's for my mama's birthday. We're going to go to Giverny. That's cool. Which is Monet's gardens. And a little bit of Paris. Maybe hit up the Demi Monde. See how it's doing. Will you go down into the catacombs? I would like to. We're only there for a really short period of time. I think we're going to go to Mise d'Orsay and see some impressionism. Cool. But yeah, I'd quite like to see the catacombs because I've never been.

[01:17:25] So. Yeah, you should go. It's, it's cool. And especially since you liked that one movie that took place in there. That one, but the one part, I was the one person in the world that liked that one movie. You should go. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to. I would like to. All right. That is our show. Episode 628. Thanks for listening everyone. Next episode, Walking Dead, season four, episode 11, claimed.

[01:17:53] If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. And while you're there, check out some of our other podcasts. I mean, I just feel like I keep saying the same too, but the other ones I'm on right now are White Lotus and Yellow Jackets. Well, I'm actually not doing Yellow Jackets because it's, because I'm also doing Cobra Kai, which just, I just watched the final episode of that series.

[01:18:21] Man, these last few episodes, like so many people, that podcast gets less downloads than I think any other podcast I'm on. Really? I love it the most because that show is just so moving at the end here. It's been so great. Yeah. It's awesome. That surprises me. Yeah. Well, I hope more people tune in. Tell your friends. Yeah. I mean, we have fun with it too, me and Richard and Rima.

[01:18:47] But I also want to mention that, well, this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Omega, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you to Omega. I swear that's a real person. Is Omega a whisperer? I don't know. I'm a bit worried. I'm the last one. Thank you. Call in, Omega. I'm the last one. I'm the last one. So a couple of things. Yesterday, Lucy and Karen and I recorded a super duper tangent time.

[01:19:13] That's our Patreon exclusive podcast we do sometimes where we just talk about random topics. What did you, how did you think that went? Oh, I had super fun. I forgot what we were recording for a lot of it. I was like, we're just having really interesting conversations. We'll see. If anyone wants to hear us have a conversation where we forget we're recording, sign up for Patreon. Where you'll find out which one of us is not opposed to being severed a la Severance. That's right. It's not who you think. It's not who you think. Yes.

[01:19:42] And yeah, we had some pretty good topics. I think it spanned the gamut. But I also want to mention, we're having a special guest with us next week. I think I'll leave that as a surprise for the claimed episode. But after that, we're having another special guest, which is Dina, who had requested that episode. That's the one where Daryl and Beth play Never Have I Ever and Drink Moonshine. That sounds like a fanfic, right? When you say it like that. I'm like, yeah, okay. It's actually true.

[01:20:12] And in honor of that, I'm going to schedule, I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to schedule for Patreon people a call-in show where we all play Never Have I Ever. Do it at weekend so I can come. Oh yeah, okay. You got it. You got it. That means it'll have to be, you'll have to do it pretty late though, because we're going to be drinking and we can't drink too early in the day. You know what I mean? Even if we need Scotland. I guess we can. That's fair. That's fair. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:20:40] Don't get bit, Randy Stoller.