630: "Still" (TWD S4E12 Rewatch)

[00:00:03] The Cast of Us

[00:00:05] The Cast of Us

[00:00:40] You can't depend on anybody for anything, right? I'll be gone someday. Stop. I will. You're going to be the last man standing. You are. You're going to miss me so bad when I'm gone to Hell Dixon. I'm not happy drunk at all.

[00:01:35] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lissy. And I'm Dina. Dina's back! And this is the Cast of Us episode 630. And this episode we're covering The Walking Dead season 4 episode 12, Still. Still. Welcome, Dina. Thanks for having me. Yeah. You asked about this one a while back. I know. I hope I didn't invite myself on. That's the point of the rewatch. Okay, okay, okay.

[00:02:04] It's claiming. I love it. It's claiming. Claimers. Yeah, claim it, everybody. Claimed. You know, somebody especially is like, oh, oh, I got to do this one. And it's one like this that's not like universally considered. Like a lot of people asked, can I be on your very favorite episode? And I'm like, not everyone can. But you know what I mean? But this one is, it's good. But it's not one that like a lot of people ask. So then I'm really curious. Why did you want to be on this one? Is it mostly just because it's a Daryl episode or what? Nope. No.

[00:02:33] I love this one when it first came out. Long, long. I just recently fell in love with Daryl. Okay. So I guess when I first watched it for personal reason, it reminded me of something that happened in eighth grade. This kid moved up from the South and he was a total burnout with the torn up t-shirt and the vest and he smoked and he drank and everyone was terrified. And now we're married.

[00:03:02] And now we're married. And I was a total geek, right? Like the glasses, the braces, everything. And he was always placed next to me in class and he would tease me, but it wasn't in a mean way. Like he had a sparkle in his eye and a slow smile and we became really good friends. So I had been in love with this other guy, Mike, since second grade and eighth grade graduation dance came.

[00:03:32] And I, I so wanted to dance with Mike and it wasn't going to happen because he was not into me. And then all of a sudden he comes up and asked me to dance and he was clearly uncomfortable the whole time. And I got back and Will said, did you have fun? I'm like, yeah, I guess. And he goes, good. I told him I'd cut his balls off if he didn't dance with you. So it reminded me of that. And I got the whole Daryl Beth brother, sibling vibe going on. Not a, not a Daryl Beth shipper.

[00:04:01] No, but I can see why that happens. Interesting. Okay. So my, my preconception, because I think we're going to talk about preconception in this episode. I was like, I bet Dina maybe likes a bit of Daryl and Beth. And I was like, I'm here for it because I don't like it myself, but I'd love to hear you talk about it. And here we go. My preconception. I'm going to go piss in the corner now. Like, and I'll join you. I'll just sit here and pout.

[00:04:27] No, I, I was thinking that she, I remember watching this the first time I was thinking she seems like she maybe has a crush on him, but this time I don't know. I don't think necessarily, I think she admires him, but yeah, I don't feel like it's about that at all. Actually. No, I think she shows a huge amount of emotional intelligence in this episode. Like I was quite impressed by that when I rewatched it because full cards on the table.

[00:04:57] I've only rewatched this episode once. I've never rewatched it to my knowledge. Um, and I only had time to watch it once in preparation for this for like life reasons. And I was really interested to go back to it because I remembered some very iconic things about it, but I didn't remember a lot of the details. And yeah, it was, it was interesting. I wonder, cause there's one more episode. I would kept waiting for the scene where, um, yeah, where Daryl's like, Anthony's in the tub.

[00:05:29] That's a reference. Yeah. But what is it? This one shrimp dogs, right? But maybe in that one, it feels a little bit more like she's crushing on him. I can't remember for sure. I think it's the alternative. I think it almost feels like he's crushing on her a little bit. Okay. Yeah. Can't wait. We can. Yeah. Well, let's get into this one. Uh, want to read the plot summary, Dina? Beth continues to travel with Daryl and becomes distraught.

[00:05:57] She might die before having a drink of alcohol, something Herschel prevented after scavenging through a country club and finding only peach schnapps. Daryl takes her to a cabin he had found earlier that was used to make moonshine and tells her that is a proper drink. As they get inebriated, Daryl sadly discusses his past and what Merle meant to him. They decide to burn down the cabin as a way of putting their past behind them.

[00:06:23] So how was it to rewatch it again, Lucy, for the second time ever in your life? Um, yeah, I should, it's a really, I had, I cried. Like I did. I don't know if it's where I'm at today. Um, I had therapy today. Fun story for listeners. Therapy is great. But, um, when you're digging into stuff about childhood and that sometimes things hit different and this one really hit different. Um, especially the ending.

[00:06:48] Um, the, the music means a lot to me in this. The mountain goats are one of my absolute all time favorites. Um, and yeah, this episode was what re-sparked my interest in them back in 2013. So yeah, that end bit got me in the feels. Yeah. The music hit good. Yeah. It's such a good choice. Yeah. Perfect. How about you, Dina? Um, well, I love it.

[00:07:14] So I've watched it many times, but, um, I love the, everything about the opening about it's hushed, quiet intimacy. Um, and then it kind of invites you in as a viewer when they burst out of that forest. Yeah. Um, and the fact that nothing's spoken, no music, it's just nature. You hear the bugs, the thunder, um, the, the zombies, Daryl's heavy breathing, which, which I kind of liked.

[00:07:44] Um, it's just visually stunning. Uh, you know, the full moon, their blue eyes and the car are just bright. Uh, and you feel the terror that they feel and that Daryl's hypervigilant and Beth's scared, but ready. Uh, it's just stunning. It's stunning. So yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

[00:08:12] I thought it, I, on first watch, I was like, yeah, this is all right. And then second watch going deeper in, I mean, I should just make a recording of what I'm saying right now so I can play it every time. Cause it's been like that so much, but I loved it and it felt like an indie movie. It was slower, but that was good. You know, I like varied pacing and you really get a deep dive into both characters. I think, uh, I would say maybe a little more Daryl, but both really. And, um, and I agree.

[00:08:41] She had a lot of emotional intelligence and it made me sort of think about how, when the governor hit the prison and everybody had to scatter, I'd love to have been in the writer's room and hear them talk about who should be grouped with who. And I wrote out all the groups, uh, Daryl and Beth, Glenn, Tara, Abraham, Eugene, Rosita, Rick, Carl and Michonne, Maggie, Sasha and Bob and Carol, Tyrese, Lizzie and Mika.

[00:09:08] And I really can't think of any better grouping, especially like Carol, Tyrese, Lizzie and Mika makes so much sense because of what they've been through. Um, Rick, Carl and Michonne, and then Daryl and Beth. I think those are the three that are the best and Daryl and Beth mostly just because they haven't really shared a lot, but, um, how they compliment each other and how they're in some ways opposites, but that ends up being great for both of them, you know? So it's really good. Fun to watch. Yeah.

[00:09:39] All right. Let's get into our points. Dina, you're the guest of honor. Oh, okay. Um, actually my first point is Beth. So we watched my family and I watched this like three episodes a night through the whole thing. So here's another drinking game. Daryl always says, come on. Or he says, let's go. So every time he says one of those, you have to take a sip. And then if he uses both, which is often, come on, let's go.

[00:10:09] You take two sips and you can be drunk for an entire week. The whole series. I never noticed that. I love it. So, you know, he's always the leader and she follows him. And even in the beginning, they're picking up the debris and they're working equally in tandem, but he just walks and she follows. But in this episode, the tables are turned and Beth is the one that leads the way for the most part.

[00:10:38] She picked herself up and left camp because of his state. Right. And she's tentative and she's fearful, but she's so determined that she goes and he follows her. I think she wanted him to follow because she turned and he wasn't following and she's like, jerk. But then he did follow. But she, she still went, which was great. Yep. And when they get to the country club, she sees it and she says, come on, or let's go. One of those two.

[00:11:08] I don't know. I didn't drink. Um, and she becomes the leader and all of her actions cause him to awaken from his deep depression, um, and anger. And she, uh, shows him ultimately that it's okay to be vulnerable. And she shows him that there's strength and vulnerability. I love that. So she's my superhero and has become my favorite female character on the show, except for maybe

[00:11:38] Michonne, um, she kind of sneaks under the radar as a heroine. Uh, she's right when she says she's not Michonne or Carol or Maggie and she's had her moment of darkness, but that was almost a blip in her personality. And really, I would probably do the same thing. Yeah. Um, but she's so brave. She faces the beast that is Daryl and then comforts him when he's in pain. Um, she lives in the moment.

[00:12:07] She cries, she breaks down, she gathers herself up and moves on. And she chooses life all the time. Choses to be optimistic. She chooses to see beauty and hopelessness like that little bit when she looks at the ladybug and holds it and just kind of smiles a little. Um, I wondered if that was just like a impromptu moment to, you know, it seemed like it might've been maybe.

[00:12:33] And my last thing about her, this point is she's kind. And at the end of the world, I hope I don't run in fear. I hope I'm kind. Um, and then instantly killed. Cause I don't want to live in an apocalypse. Well, I'll probably cut this part out, but you're pretty kind. And I'd say we're almost there. So. Oh God. Okay. But we promised to take me out. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:03] I will do that. I will do that. Thank you. Thank you. That's great. I love it. Love everything you said. Lucy. Yeah. I find this one hard. I got, if the, if Jason's one is always, I liked it better the second time. Mine is always, I found this one hard to write notes on. Um, because that's what I always say. Well, because usually we have these groups and we can just say, okay, now let's talk about these people. Now let's talk about these people. But you've got just two the whole time.

[00:13:31] So you have to figure out different ways of separating it all, you know? Yeah. And they're so intertwined. Yeah. They really are. I think, um, there are bits of this episode where I find Daryl really hard to watch because he's so unpleasant. Um, and I, I was taken aback by that. Um, I think I have the biggest problem reconciling this Daryl with Daryl Dixon in Paris.

[00:14:00] I can, I can buy that they are the same character, but the, the gulf is huge here. And that was something that was quite interesting to look at it. And I'm trying to be like, well, okay, if we take everything as like gospel and canon, about 12 years pass between now and him going to Paris and becoming this Moody. I think this episode is, uh, you're saying he's better in Paris, right? Not better. He's different.

[00:14:28] The bit that I found really difficult is watching Daryl be a mean drunk, presumably like his dad. And I found that scene really difficult. Um, the way he was with Beth was pretty dark. I found. Yeah. It's hard to like him, but I think this episode is, um, a turning point for him and like a milestone on the way to him becoming more self-actualized.

[00:14:54] Well, he literally sets his childhood trauma on fire, which is great. And Beth guides him to do that. But talking a bit about Daryl generally in this episode, the thing that cuts him the deepest is when she assumes that he's been to prison. Um, and what, yes, but then he comes out with a buttload of assumptions about Beth as well. And the class chip on Daryl's shoulder is huge in this episode, like from the country club puts him on edge, being around these rich people puts him on edge and then going straight

[00:15:24] back to what his childhood was and what he lived through. But that scene where he is so uncomfortable when she points out, when she asks, you know, have you, have you ever been to prison? Which to her is quite a lot of hard question. The bit that made me most uncomfortable is when he like physically grabs her and drags her out and starts doing the shooting of the Zed. Like I find that, and I'm not being like, Daryl is problematic and we should cancel him

[00:15:49] because like it's at no point, at no point am I like, he's going to hurt or injure Beth. That's not the point. But he's being reckless and mean in a way that just doesn't suit him. Doesn't suit him at all. Cause he's flawed. I think, I mean, I think part of the reason why maybe why Beth wanted to drink, even if it wasn't totally conscious is because Daryl's just so unavailable and withdrawn and she's trying to draw him out.

[00:16:16] And I think there was an instinct to maybe if he has a few drinks in him, something will happen. And Daryl, like there, people are different kinds of drunks, you know, I'm a goofy drunk most of the time. And you are a goofy drunk. A little overbearing, but not mean. Oh, you're a goofy slash a little bit emotional, which is fine. But there's a lot of mean drunks, you know, there's a lot of mean drunks. And Daryl's a mean drunk. And he even said, I love that he admitted it. I'm a dick when I'm drunk. And, and that's a real thing.

[00:16:45] And I think, I think it's, you know, it's not pleasant. It's, it's uncomfortable, but I think it's good that they gave him some character. That's not always just Mr. Badass, great guy, you know, that's what I think. Yeah. It's not like, no, I don't think, I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I think what it is, is interesting because it challenges us in our perceptions of Daryl as this like romantic hero, when actually he's capable of being a dick and he is one. And what I loved about that interaction with Beth is that she knows it's not okay.

[00:17:15] And she sticks up for herself and tells him to be a jackass. She's brave. Yeah, she's brave. Like I would, if I was like, how old's Beth meant to be here? What, 17, 18? And I just watched one of my parents be brutally murdered. And I was stuck with this guy who is taciturn, a little bit feral, not really like any of the boyfriends I've had in the past. I think I would be feeling a bit insecure, but Beth is not that way. And she shows her strength and her grit in this episode.

[00:17:45] But yeah, those scenes where he's playing into those stereotypes that she inadvertently or yeah, inadvertently has kind of put out there and showing that hurt. And the way Beth just sits with him and holds space from that and calls him out on his prejudices by saying, you look at me, you just look at me and see another dead girl. It's really sad when we know that that's what actually happens. It sucks.

[00:18:11] It sucks for both of them, but it's a scene that catalyzes something and makes them stronger. And I think Beth gets called on her privilege a little bit because a game like Never Have I Ever is the kind of game that shows your privilege when you're like, oh, you never went on holiday? You never camped? You never did this? You never did that? And it's not malicious from Beth, but I think it gives her a deeper understanding of him because I think people who come from very secure families don't always see what it's like to come from one that's not.

[00:18:40] And this is a really good example of that. It doesn't excuse what he does, but it gives it depth and texture. And I love that he says, Camille Green, like he's calling her by her surname. I'm like, OK, we're in child mode now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was something for me was seeing Jackass Daryl. I have to say, you know, the first go around back when I was in my early 40s, it just made for good TV.

[00:19:08] But rewatching it recently as an older mother with a daughter, I found his behavior reprehensible. I can't I'm glad it's a good character flaw. It really is. And it's his character. But I remember being at a college party with a male friend and he was mad at me, I think, for flirting with someone. And he didn't have a right to. We weren't together. And he was like pointing his finger at me in the corner and hollering at me.

[00:19:37] And it was frightening and nobody did anything until finally one guy noticed and stepped between us. But for a girl like Beth, a small little girl. In the real world, she could be killed for standing up to someone like that. So I. I found it really horrible. And I think it does come back a little bit. I think he matures, of course, and puts that behind him. But it's the anger is always there.

[00:20:05] And it comes to the surface, even in the Daryl show, the way he. He was angry, rightfully so at Laurent for what was at the canoe. But the way he turned on him and called him a stupid little. Yeah. It came out. Yeah. He like it. I mean, that's what a lot of people do. They embody their parents' worst behaviors in their lower moments. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I can hear it coming out of my mouth sometimes. I'm like, oh my God. No, that's not. That's not it.

[00:20:36] Like, oh. But all we can do is check it and move on from it. But yeah, it's an intro. Because I had in my head I was going to come into it and it'd be quite a romantic episode that loads of fanfic has written about. But actually, it's got edge. It's got a lot of grit to it and a lot of stuff that's hard to, both hard to watch and hard to tear your eyes away from. And we learn a lot about Daryl's, the way that, I think indie film was a really good

[00:21:04] way of putting it, Jason, like the way this is staged. And just the kind of totems of upper class behavior that we see sort of desecrated in the country club and the totems of working class life in the moonshine hut are just fascinating. That's kind of another point. This will talk about that a bit. But yeah, Daryl being a jackass was my first point. So, yeah, I'm going to just kind of broadly cover what I think is the message or point of

[00:21:34] this episode. We've already touched on a lot of it, but I'm just going to try to kind of encapsulate it. So I think, yeah, it's all about Beth being a good friend and pulling Daryl out of his funk. And they sort of frame that as a class thing with the golf club where the staff seemingly rose up and killed the golf, the rich golf club people. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:59] But it's more, I think, about being trapped by the roles and identities that you grew up with before the zombie apocalypse started. And so, yeah, never have I ever. He gets offended that she thinks he went to jail. But he's triggered by that because it's a sore spot for him. He thinks of himself as I grew up in this play. We learned so much about him where my dad shot stuff on the TV and we didn't have, you know,

[00:22:29] internet or anything. And it was just I think the implication is also that he had a moonshine still there. I'm not sure. But yeah, his dad. Yeah. But that, you know, we know he was abused and everything. And so if somebody else sort of indicates they also think that way about him, then he'll get pissed off, especially if he's drunk because he's a mean drunk. But then with Beth, you know, when he's throwing these insults at her, it's all about her being

[00:22:55] sheltered and and taking care of and not having to worry about anything and having this life of ease. And he's like, it's not a game for me. And Beth makes this point that Daryl's hard life prepared him more for the zombie apocalypse. And because of that, he'll he'll be the last man standing. And I more when I watch this the first time, but I think even still now, I think on a meta

[00:23:23] level, that was about his popularity as a character, you know, that they're just like and I still think it's true. He's probably going to be the last one or at least one of them. But one of the reasons why he's so popular is because he handles himself so well in zombie apocalypse, which is because of the challenges that he had to face in his life. And so Beth is in one way trying to get him to move past the stereotypes of his life. And he kind of already was.

[00:23:49] He was like this hero at the jail where everybody's like, look, it's Daryl. But when the governor came in and ruined it all, I think he was like, how could I have been stupid enough to think I could have anything good in this life? Right. So Beryl's trying to call. I mean, Beth is trying to call him out. He's shivering. I know. I didn't mean to do that. It's trying to call out that goodness in him again. And to keep what's good about his life, but discard the rest.

[00:24:16] And she helps him move past it by trying to move past the stereotype of her own life to that. Just a girl who is, has been protected and is helpless. She's showing she's not like that because like she made this little fire. I think that was an intentional thing to show. Hey, look, she knows how to handle herself. And she's also fighting the walkers as best she can. And she killed that one without his help. And so when they burn the shack at the end, of course, it's like, let's let go of the

[00:24:45] past and not let it reign us in anymore. This is the perfect opportunity. Everything's gone. We can kind of start over and say, fuck you to the past and be our best selves in this reality. And Daryl, I think absolutely does do that most of the time going forward in the series. And I think that's a good thing to think about for all of us, honestly, how, how much are we reined in by the stories we tell ourselves about what we are and what we're capable of and how much can we give a finger to any of that, that doesn't serve us and move beyond it, you know?

[00:25:13] And so I think the title still is not just about the moonshine still, but also about what you still are and what you are, or you don't have to be anymore. I think that's kind of like the point of this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I like still as well. I feel like maybe not so much Beth, but Daryl found a stillness in his soul for the first time. He was meditative. No, I'm just kidding. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:40] More just being able to rest in himself and not like have a shame of what he was or what he's afraid he is. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. That's a big deal. I mean, you think of like, you go to, like, I I've been around, um, sort of, you might say hippie ish kind of groups where you write something down on a piece of paper and then you burn it to let it go. But he just burned a whole fucking cabin. Yeah. Let's go burn our houses down.

[00:26:10] Burn it all. Burn it all. Got a tree house out there. It's going up in flames tonight. I love it. Burning is so cathartic though. Like it just is. There's something so interesting about that. Um, yeah, I love it. All right. What's next? Um, my next theme opposites, like you have the opposite childhoods and generations. Um, there's Beth.

[00:26:39] She's not country club rich, but like you said, she has a stable home, loving siblings, loving dad, um, a pony. She could play. She didn't have to think. Mm-hmm. And she's young. She's like, like you said, 18, right? Yeah. Um, and there's Daryl and he's probably almost 40 in his forties. He's raised in abuse and poverty. Um, definitely not sheltered, extremely self-sufficient.

[00:27:06] Um, one of the things he said he's never done is I think he said, I've never had anyone protect me or something. Yes, exactly. That did pretty hard. Yeah. Yep. So she had this like pretty pink world and he had pink plastic tits, basically. Nice. Yeah. And I think they, the only thing they have in common really is alcoholic dads and possibly they're both virgins, I guess.

[00:27:36] I would go with that. Maybe. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe Beth had some action with what Zach. So therefore she ups Daryl, but you never know. I'm reading into it. Maybe Daryl and Zach. No, I don't think so. I don't know. Daryl and Aaron, I could get maybe, but no, not Zach. He's like, let me show you what I did for a living, Zach. Oh my God.

[00:28:10] Oh my God. That went dark, dark. What a thought. He was a male prostitute. Yeah. Then they have the rich versus poor. It's the golf place. The club is not a refuge for him. He's stealing money. There's no reason for him to steal money. Was that what he was doing? He's throwing darts. She's like, why are you taking that? I didn't see what he was grabbing. Yeah. And they lit, they lit the fire with that. Yeah, they did. Remember? Yep.

[00:28:40] He's throwing darts at those creepy old men. Right. I kind of am with Daryl and the country club thing. So sorry, people who go golfing all the time. Yes. Many of our listeners joined our members of country clubs. Actually, maybe they are. Never know. I'm sorry. You never know. All of those listening live at the country club thinking, fuck you. I'm like, oh, sorry. Don't leave us. Don't leave us. I know. Please stay. I never played any less than 18 holes on a Sunday. Yeah.

[00:29:11] Oh, gosh. Yeah. So he's got that pent up anger. He kills the Zeds as he should. But then that last one using a golf club. Yeah. Not out of convenience. Well, yes, out of convenience. But it's such a great symbol of what he's doing to that poor old golfer. Yeah. Especially because the final one was very much a golf swing, the way he was like. And then it went all over Beth and it was a horror movie. Awesome. Yeah. That whole fight scene was incredible.

[00:29:41] I loved it. This kind of goes back to Beth a little bit. And she's so decent. You know, she covers or wants to cover that woman's corpse who had a great body, by the way. Yeah. With her curls. And he begrudgingly covers the corpse. But that action plays out later on when he, remember when he shoots that poor woman with Leah further, further on? It's like season 10 or something. Yeah.

[00:30:08] And he just takes a moment and covers her. Yeah. And I feel like Beth sowed that seed. That's cool. That's awesome. Yeah. But he doesn't do it with that claimer guy. Yeah. Fuck him. He doesn't. Don't blame him either. Nope. Doesn't deserve it. So that's pretty much it with opposites. Opposites. I had one to add, Dina, which is the way that they eat their roasted snake.

[00:30:35] Daryl's like, and Beth's like picking bits like. Like a dainty lady. Also peach schnapps versus moonshine. Oh my God. That took me back. And golf club versus kind of shacky cabin. Yeah. Golf chic versus cabin chic. Oh, that's funny. I like that.

[00:31:01] Well, I, I would like to talk a little about the visuals of the episode and the contrast, which I think just builds on what you were saying, Dina, which is like we start off with nothing. So they're, they're picking over a car. We see Daryl aiming for a squirrel, which he fails to get. And then he settles for a snake. I got quite, I quite like snakes. I got a bit upset when he killed the snake. Sorry, listeners that really hate snakes.

[00:31:28] So we see the visual of the two of them just at a low ebb. You know, they've got this rank, like rinky dink camp. They're eating snake. And Beth is like, we're going to go and get a drink just for something to do. Um, so the golf club, um, it's quite a, it's quite a scene in the golf club. Actually. It's one of the best examples of kind of setting the scene story wise without actually getting into it in any way. Um, the hanging.

[00:31:56] There's a few examples of that in the walking dead as we go along where you have to pay close attention. You could totally miss it. It would be a great collection of short stories, actually. Like the ones that are hanging. Good idea. Oh, that'd be fun. Um, I found out a cool fact. The hanging Zeds are actors. They're not puppets or animatronics. So the ones that are still alive while hanging are actually actors on special rigs. Um, I think that pays off because it's so creepy.

[00:32:24] Um, but then we start to see like behind the kind of immediate horror of it. There's, there's loot. There's like jewels. There's watches. There's cash everywhere. Like clearly these rich people hoarded, came to this place hoarding what they thought was going to be important in the apocalypse. So Daryl's just looting the place. He's picking up money, putting it in bags. He's grabbing all the jewelry. I think he grabs some pills at a certain point. Like I heard something rattling that he picks up.

[00:32:52] We see that there's a Zed that used to be a kind of waiter. I think the one that attacks Beth near the food. Like this is a place that has been the seat of privilege. And when we get to the bar that is reinforced by like what was clearly quite a grand bar originally. Um, they've drunk all the good booze. There's no wine or whiskey or anything left. And she's left with this schnapps. And we see Beth like try and find a glass to drink from, which is so innocent.

[00:33:21] There's something so innocent about this whole, I want to have a drink thing. The subtext being, I want to have a drink before I die and at least see what it's like. Um, peach schnapps, by the way, had a real like Vogue about 20 years ago in the UK with like a thing called an Archer's Aqua, which was like an Alcopop. And I drank a lot of those in my teen years and they just tasted of like juice. So like, don't do it kids. Drink something better. We had peppermint schnapps.

[00:33:47] I remember my friend, uh, Tim and Richard, they were locker partners and they had a two liter thing of half Coke, half peppermint schnapps. And they would drink it between classes. That is disgusting. That is. Do you remember, um, Southern Comfort? That was big on my canvas. Yes. Yes. Southern Comfort and ginger beer tastes weirdly like iron brew. That's a fact I learned in my youth. Um, yeah, I, I had it in my head that she

[00:34:16] finds creme de menthe. So I was like, oh, it's schnapps. I thought it was a mint thing, but anyway, it's schnapps. Um, and yeah, they're picking through the shop before they get there. Beth steals some clothes. Presumably they're the kind of clothes she might have wanted to wear. Um, so there's a bit of aspiration there maybe from Beth. Also, I'm not going to overanalyze it because maybe she just wanted to wear something that wasn't disgusting. Cause at the start of this episode, the two of them are looking just so gross. Um, like, you know, they're, they're living it rough at that moment. Um, so you see all this consumption,

[00:34:46] like conspicuous consumption with Daryl, like going through the cash register, beating this guy, getting the visceral on Beth's like lovely white cashmere. And then we see Daryl kind of throwing knives at rich dudes, pictures of rich dudes while Beth cries. Daryl ignoring her. Is it darts? Not knives. Yeah. Cause there was a dart board and you think he's going to throw it at the board. And I'm like, I bet you'll be a good shot, but then. No. Well, he is a good shot. But for something different. Um, and Daryl.

[00:35:15] Unless he was aiming at the dart board. Yeah. Daryl's like, no, I love those men. Like I, I didn't mean to hit them. Um, and then we see Daryl kind of make a decision that he's going to go in on this, this venture with her. So then we end up in Daryl's reality, um, which is a moonshine shack. And we see this disgusting, like bra ashtray. Um, Daryl tells us that his dad used to shoot them on top of the TV.

[00:35:42] And then we get a quite on the nose bit of dialogue, but I quite liked it, which is Daryl giving you a guided tour of what everything is. He's like, here's your dumpster chair for sitting in here. Your fancy buckets for spitting, chatting. And here's your internet, which I assume was either a newspaper or some porn. And then he says home sweet home when they sit down. And yeah, it's, it's just so different. It's, it's run down as ramshackle is basic.

[00:36:09] It's, it's something that he's super familiar with and could recognize a mile off and somehow he's more at home there, but it also brings out both places bring out a bad side of Daryl, whether it's, uh, an angry and violent side in the country club or a resentful and young side of him in the moonshine shack. Yeah. And I imagine being in a place that from what he said could have very well been

[00:36:35] just like his house would bring him closer to bad things, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And didn't he have, um, I think in the prison when he's alone with Carl and he says his mom was, I think she died in a fire cause she drank wine. So presumably he had somewhat of a normal, decent house and then probably got stuck with his dad. So yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:03] It sounds like just horrible. Just really horrible. Then his dad, yeah, would beat Merle and Merle decided to go to the military to get away from him. And so then Daryl was stuck with him and that's when he got the scars on his back. So yeah. It was the classic thing with, um, the older sibling kind of standing in the way between the younger sibling and the abuser. But then when they leave, you can't really control what happens and it's bad.

[00:37:32] So yeah, I thought the visuals of the two places were great. And the, the moment of literally setting it all on fire is just perfect. It's just such a good way to, to close that arc. Yeah. Yep. All right. I'm going to talk about drinking because there's a lot of that in this episode. I wondered why Beth, she's sitting there with Daryl and she's like, I need a drink.

[00:38:01] And I was sort of, it's all speculation. Exactly. Why? I think it could have been a number of things that triggered that one. Maybe she was thinking about her dad and she said she never drank because of her dad. You know, we know that he was an alcoholic. So, um, maybe she just thought, Hey, I don't have that restriction anymore. Let's try it out. I didn't even consider what you said, Lucy, but maybe, you know, before I die, I want to know what it's like. Um, it's also, sorry, Jason. It's just, it's also kind of a way to feel close to him. It's a bit of, yeah, no. Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

[00:38:30] Which I think that's kind of like when she was sitting there holding the bottle of peach schnapps and started crying. I just think it was because she was thinking about him. Maybe it could have even been like, I don't know if I want to do the same thing he did. You know? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right.

[00:39:00] Yeah. You don't need a drink. But instead he realized what she wants is companionship right now. She wants someone to be in this with her and to go through this with her. And so I'm going to do it. And also like make it about both of us. She's the one who wanted to drink, but we're going to do my drink, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So that was nice. But also why she decided to it, I think, yeah, just like wanting to bring Daryl out of his shell and maybe a drink would help.

[00:39:30] Like I said before, you know, cause she says right there, what's the hell, what the hell's wrong with you? Do you feel anything? And then it might've just been simply about being bored. They're sitting here staring into a fire. She's like, yeah, you think everything's screwed. So you want to spend the rest of our lives staring into a fire and eating mud snakes. Come on. Mud snakes. I love it. Uh, she finds the peach schnapps and Daryl throws it down. And yeah, I think he's like, okay, let's do this together.

[00:39:56] She needs an ally right now, which is one good thing Daryl did given that he did a lot of things that weren't so great in this episode. Um, then, um, uh, when they got the moonshine, I was thinking, I think Beth probably would have liked the peach schnapps better than the moonshine. Um, but she came around on it pretty quick. It only took like two drinks. Um, I've, I, the moonshine I've had was not very good at all.

[00:40:25] I had a friend, uh, from, uh, Kentucky send me some and, and, uh, it moonshine just means illegally made liquor. Mm-hmm. It's usually high proof, high alcohol content. It's usually had straight from the still. So it's not age, which means it's harsher. It's less complex. It's less refined. I'm showing my, I mean, I'm the golf club guy, I guess.

[00:40:53] Cause I want a good aged whiskey, you know? Jason's wearing a t-shirt that says rich bitch. You can't see me. Bad moonshine can make you go blind or kill you, but it's rare. I read only if it's like, for example, made using unsafe distilling methods, like using lead pipes or car radiators and homemade stills, which I guess happens sometimes. Um, but, um, I don't know.

[00:41:20] It's kind of fun to, to drink something like that just because it's so harsh. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I think Emily Kinney, uh, she was great in this episode, but drinking moonshine was not convincing. She's like, Ooh, this is gross. She should have been like, you know? Maybe she's just hardcore. Yeah. Right. She's like, fine. Glug, glug, glug. But, uh, she told the daily beast, uh, actually my first time drinking it. Oh, Oh, I thought she said drinking, drinking it.

[00:41:50] Okay. She's talking about moonshine was with Scott Wilson. He invited us all over to his house for dinner. And I can't remember if he said he made it himself or if he bought it locally, but for some reason he had moonshine for some reason I had it in my head. That was the first time she drank, but no, cause she was about 26 when the show started. No way. She looks so young. So then, you know, when he gets so mad about being, um, this is the last thing I had to say about drinking, but about her suggesting he's in jail and gets all pissed off.

[00:42:19] And I'm like, okay, so you're a mean drunk. And then I wanted to ask you guys what kind of drunks you are. Um, very silly and then very sleepy. You're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Silly and sleepy. Uh, I think I get slurry and sleepy. Yeah. Wait, you said I was emotional. I don't really, what did I do? Maybe we should talk about that.

[00:42:47] Hold a very sweet story about your grandfather over a very large glass of wine. I guess you weren't drunk, but it was. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause later we went to this, we had a listener meetup. It was freaking awesome in Glasgow at a bar. So jealous. 15, 16 people there, maybe more. And, uh, we, I drank quite a lot there. We were doing trivia. I was arguing with Lucy's friend cause he said Timothy was a book of the Bible and it turns out he was right. Douglas was redeemed.

[00:43:20] And I, I mean, honestly, um, I've drinking is like alcohols, one of the most deadliest drugs in the world, but I gotta say in my own life, it's also been responsible for some of the best times I've ever had with friends, you know, everything in moderation, you know, I think in Scotland, we're not good at moderation. So I've always been quite, um, I've never been a big drinker because I get, I guess,

[00:43:48] I mean, honestly, listeners, full disclosure, I just barf, like I get so sick so easily with booze. Um, I used to be able to drink a lot, but not so much anymore. Um, but it's, yeah, I think everything in moderation and it's okay to sometimes just want to get shit face drunk. Part of moderation is like occasional extremes, but be careful. Um, but can, should I also talk about the game? Never have I ever did either one of you? Yeah, no. Okay. Well, since that's kind of part of drinking. So, so she starts the game.

[00:44:17] Never have I ever, her rules are one person says something they've never done. And if the other person has done it, then they drink. But if they haven't, then the first person drinks and then they take turns. And the version I played as a kid, like late teens, early twenties was called I never. And usually always there was a group of us. So it was a little bit different. You would say, I've never whatever. And, um, then anyone who has done that drinks and you could say something even that you have

[00:44:47] done. You'd say, I never went skydiving, but if you have, you drink too. And so, um, I would get confused about the rules sometimes, especially the more you drink. And I remember being in a room with my college friends and one of them said, I've never slept with anyone in this room. And I'm like, yeah, I never have. And I just drank. And it's like, no, you drink if you have done it. They're like, what? That's awesome. That was so funny. I was so red.

[00:45:16] I think I just started dating one of them too. And it come to think of it, what we hadn't slept together. And she was like, looking at me like, what? What the what? So, uh, also in my experience, you can play where you're just trying to get other people to drink. Like if you're playing with some people of the opposite sex, you could say, I've never been a woman. And then all the women have to drink. Uh, but more interesting to me always was try to find out things about people. So you could say like, I've never been in threesome and look around, you know, that's more fun.

[00:45:46] And that's how I feel like, um, no, I actually think Daryl and Beth were more playing to try to get each other to drink because she's like, I've never shot a crossbow and I've never been in jail. And he says, I've never been out of Georgia. I've never been on vacation. Yeah. I, I just, there was this moment where Beth, I was just like, Beth, God bless you. You are like, you are having the weirdest first drinking experience of your life and

[00:46:13] bless you for trying to sit there with Daryl Dixon in a moonshine hut, trying to get him to play. Never have I ever like, I admire your stamina here. Because he is not vibing. No. She's determined. She, she didn't seem drunk to me at all. No. She might be happy, but she wasn't drunk. Yeah. She was, she seemed a little clueless because she said, uh, I've never been in jail.

[00:46:39] And then he, he looks like there's steam coming out of his ears and she's just like, huh? Why isn't he answering? It's your turn. Poor thing. Yeah. But she, she knew she heard him after a few minutes. Well, yeah. When he stood up and started peeing on the floor. Even, even before that, I think she tried to dial it back with, even my dad was in the jail. He was in the drunk tank. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's true. Yes.

[00:47:09] Cause he said, is that what you think of me? So that's pretty clearly he didn't like hearing that, but she's like, oh, I didn't mean like that. You know? Yeah. She hit a real sore spot. Yeah. It happens. All right. That's all I had. Dina. I have one more point. It's sort of the opposite thing. Up to this point, you know, he's been growing and Sophia, I think was the catalyst for that

[00:47:35] cause he couldn't stand listening to Carol cry in that camper. She tells him he's worth it. Worth as much as, oh God. What are their names? Renee, Renee. Whoa. My crush. Oh my God. Rick. Oh, Rick. Rick Grimes. That took us a shameful amount of time. I'm like, I want to say Nick. Well, I didn't know what you were talking about. I can, I know the name of the main character. Oh my God. Yeah.

[00:48:04] So remember Carol said he's worthy. He's equal to shame. I love it. That's how you figure out who Rick is. Renee's crush. Mr. Renee. Renee's real husband. You've made Renee's day. I can tell you now. Excellent. And he gets to the prison, of course, to gain respect, blah, blah, blah. We already talked about that. It's the Hades Persephone myth that I'm getting at.

[00:48:33] So it's kind of a romance trope too, but I'm not going down that way. Yeah. So there are a bunch of interpretations of that myth touching on themes like abduction, rape, grief, fate, power, reason for the seasons. That's the one most people know. Are you going to talk about what it is? Because I forget. Like he kidnaps her or something. Oh, sorry. Yes. Greek mythology. Hades.

[00:49:00] He falls madly in love with Persephone so much so that he kidnaps her. And if I remember correctly, her mother is so grief stricken that winter descends on earth. And some bargain is made. I think one of the gods intervenes. So Persephone is allowed to come to earth for six months out of the year. And that's why we have spring. Oh, yeah. Because her mom is so happy to see her. Yeah.

[00:49:29] So there's reason for the seasons, death, control. And you could just go on with that. So Daryl, at the beginning of the episode, he's lost everything he's gained, including his self-worth, his self-respect. He blames himself for Herschel's death. And he kind of slips into something darker than depression. So that's where I'm going. He's almost like in the underworld himself. He's Hades. In his winter. Yeah.

[00:49:57] And there's the perspective that Persephone was the one who brings balance, you know, earth up above, but also below in the underworld. She becomes the queen. So she brings lightness to him. And I think in this episode, Beth, obviously, is the Persephone figure. She rules over him. She brings him back to life and offers him balance and sets him on the path to humanity again.

[00:50:26] So she brings him up, telling him he doesn't have to be defined by his past, blah, blah, blah. The ghost's in his closet. He knows his soul is impoverished. He knows his soul is impoverished. And says, you have to remind me. And she says, you have to remind yourself. So I think she lights his way. She equalizes him. She says, you are just like me. And she's right. Because she reconfirms that when she says, I'm a happy drunk, but I'm also a realist.

[00:50:55] What did she say exactly? But I'm not blind. The moonshine apparently did not blind her. Sorry, this is a long one. She teaches him decency, that it's okay to appreciate the little things. It kind of pays off in the next episode. I won't get into that because you guys will. But he briefly is able to hold her hand and share grief. He sets the table for her.

[00:51:23] And I'll let you guys, I'm not going to steal the next episode. It's okay. You can mention things. It's fine. All right. And she's the full catalyst. He's growing, but he's not growing fast enough. And she just pushes him right out and gives him life. So much so that when he's with Carol later on, he picks up the book on childhood abuse. He does. And says, you know, he's trying to move forward. And he kind of berates Carol a little bit and forces her to try.

[00:51:53] And I think Beth in this, Carol started it all off. And I'm not trying to compare them in that negative way. So Carol shippers, don't get upset. She gives him that first little seed that you're a decent man. And Dale does too, for that matter. But it's Beth who just opens the world up for him. So I think she is so important to the show and to his character development going forward.

[00:52:22] She's the light and his dark. It's kind of, in one way, you know, special and interesting and great and important. And then in another way, it's that typical thing where it's his story and this woman is part of it, you know. And her story exists to push him forward. And then she gets killed in the stupidest way possible. Yeah. So that's kind of unfortunate. Because watching this, I kept thinking, man, it would be fun to see.

[00:52:52] I wish Beth had gotten a chance to see Alexandria, you know. Yes. And continue growing herself. Yeah. Because she does. She also grows in leaps and bounds. Because of Daryl, really. Yeah. And it really pissed me off the way she died. Like, okay, fine. Characters die on this show. Glenn, you know, had an amazing death, as horrible as it was. But Beth did not. No. Stabbed by like nail scissors or something dumb. No, she got accidentally shot.

[00:53:22] Oh, yeah, that's right. Because she stabbed someone with nail scissors. Sorry. That's what it was. I knew nail scissors were involved somewhere. Right. Oh, so dumb. It felt like the kind of death where you're writing someone off the show because they want to go. But I don't think that was the case. No, I don't think so. Yeah. I don't understand it. Maybe we'll have a new understanding once we get to it. I love the Persephone idea. And Orpheus, Eurydice and Orpheus not being allowed to look back. Right.

[00:53:52] In the underworld. Yeah. I wonder if the moonshine is like the pomegranates. I don't know. You could go. You could take this quite far. I love it. Yeah, you can. You can. Oh, why don't I? Oh, oh, Carol. Carol. Well, I think almost that she and Daryl are so much alike that they wouldn't be able to grow together. Yeah. Like they need to follow their own journeys and they can help each other. But they're just, they're kind of alone in it. Yeah.

[00:54:22] And that's why Beth is so important because she's, she's my hero. Yeah. Iris Bueller. I think this is her best episode by far. I would say, yeah, Daryl and Carol feel more like brother and sister to me. And Daryl and Beth just feel like friends here to me. They can all be brothers and sisters. They can, yeah.

[00:54:47] But you know, Daryl and Carol are always like giving each other crap and they get, they go through phases of being on the outs with each other. And it just feels very much like a sibling relationship. I think Carol would never, Carol would have known exactly what was bugging Daryl throughout this whole episode. And that's the difference, isn't it? They have the same language of life and hard knocks and what, what it's taken to get them there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:15] And she would have, if she was in a place to try to get him out of it, it would have been much less earnest, whatever she did. Yeah. You know, after there's a scene when she's in the field and she kisses his forehead. And I think she says something to him about grief, his grief for Beth and that you have to let it out. I don't have to, I can compartmentalize things or so she can push him, but yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:46] Lucy, got any more? I, yeah. This is the first episode where I believe that Beth and Maggie are related because Beth gives it full Maggie when she's talking about the suck ass camp and giving Daryl the finger and I'm like, oh, there it is. Like, I feel like that's the first time we've seen Beth be fiery like that. Um, and I really loved that, but it made me so sad that she will never see Maggie again. Like that's nice. Yeah. That's when Daryl's like, you're never going to see Rick or Maggie.

[00:56:16] I think she might see Rick for like one second, but that doesn't really count. Yeah. So he's totally right. Yeah. And stuff like her saying, um, Daryl's a jerk and giving him the finger and talking about, I can take care of myself and I'm going to get a damn drink. Like, I just loved it. I just loved seeing that fire in her and I sort of wish we'd had a bit of it earlier. Um, yeah, I think that's it. And the thing she says to Daryl, like Beth in this episode, I'll be gone someday. You're going to be the last man standing. You are, you're going to miss me so bad when I'm gone. Daryl Dixon.

[00:56:46] Love that. And I do love what she says. You got to stay who you are, not who you were. That's something I'm going to try and bring into my day to day life. That thought, um, but her, it's sad hearing her, especially knowing how it ends, hearing her vision of the future for her dad and how he should have died, surrounded by people he loved. She thought Glenn and Maggie would have a baby. Uh, it's just, yeah, it's tragic to look at it now, but in this moment, it's a very

[00:57:15] kind of hopeful scene to have the two of them have this moment of proper catharsis. Um, I love it. Oh, I'll talk a little bit. Just what I have left about Beth trying to make Daryl care again. And I feel like it's a little bit of an echo of what Michonne went through just now where she's flirting with the idea of just retreating back into the world of the walking dead and decides on her own not to.

[00:57:43] And here Daryl's sort of going back to thinking I'm on my own. I have no support. And Beth draws him out of it and just, but it's in both cases, deciding to risk caring about people, you know? And, um, like when didn't Beth scream something like Adam, like that at him, like she saw how he was when Sophia came out of the barn and now you've decided, you know, you don't want to risk caring anymore or something like that.

[00:58:10] Um, or he said, I'm not, and God forbid you ever let anyone get too close, which I think is similar to Michonne. And of course he's resistant saying yelling, they're all dead and everything. She's like, you don't know that. And he's feeling guilty about having stopped looking for the governor. And he was, I liked how, you know, he's kind of critical, like of her for thinking anything could be normal. He's like, it doesn't matter. Nothing matters.

[00:58:40] There's no point in covering up this corpse and all this. But then when they have their just discord that is, I think in a way kind of cathartic for both of them as in a way that arguments can be sometimes. And then later they're out on the porch when things have quieted down and, um, it kind of shifts where Beth is like talking about summer picnics and normal things. And then she goes, that's how unbelievably stupid I am. She's vulnerable enough to be critical of herself for saying that.

[00:59:09] And Daryl takes the other stance. That's how it's supposed to be. So he's like, I don't blame you. You know, now they're kind of taking care of each other, which is nice. And then, um, then Beth tells Daryl that he was made for how things are now. And he's like, I'm just used to things being ugly growing up in a place like this. Well, you got away from it. I didn't. You did. He's all, maybe you got to keep reminding me sometimes. She's no, you can't depend on anybody for anything, right? I'll be gone someday.

[00:59:36] So she's, I think being realistic there and trying to, you kind of already cover this Dina, but trying to encourage him to realize that he's moved beyond his origins and that he needs to take up the mantle of being a stand for himself. You know, you can't depend on me because as great as I am, I'm not going to survive as long as you because you're the, you're the best. And so you're going to have to take care of yourself. And that is what ends up happening.

[01:00:06] It's almost like a parental thing to say. I don't know. It feels like. Out of the nest. Yeah. Yeah. And it speaks to the fact, you know, you're talking about life lessons from this show and whatnot, but you can't seek validation from others all the time. You can't go looking for approval. You have to love yourself. Yeah. And it sounds so hippie, but it's true, I guess. Very RuPaul. Yeah. If you don't love yourself, how in the hell?

[01:00:34] At least sometimes you have to. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Lucy, any more? Merle's dealer was a janky little white guy. I'm sure there was a hint in season two that Merle's dealer was Jesse from Breaking Bad, but this, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because. Well, then he said, I'm going to kill you, bitch. Yeah. And this one. That's how Jesse always talked. This one, it seems to put paid to the idea that it was Jesse, but it was interesting to

[01:01:05] hear Daryl's story. Even though it's not. Because Jesse's from New Mexico. What do you mean? Oh, like. Yeah. It couldn't have been him. Yeah. But I mean, I think that was a nod to that because Merle had the blue meth. Yeah. Earlier too. Back in the AMC, like top TV days. Yeah. I just have notes really. Okay. I had just a couple more learning about Daryl and his life pre apocalypse. Beth guessed that he was a motorcycle mechanic.

[01:01:34] I mean, not necessarily correctly, but I thought that was a better guess than anything that Zach guessed. Yeah. And I thought it was fun that Beth, who was Zach's girlfriend, continues this line of questioning. And I think he does reveal. He just says, I was drifting around with Merle doing whatever he said we were going to be doing that day. I was nobody, nothing, some redneck asshole. I think it sounds like he never really had a job. No.

[01:02:04] And given that they were going to rob Shane's camp and also that Merle was into blue meth, that they were probably up to no good a lot of the times. You know? But that's a supposition. Yeah. Yeah. Daryl more about that. It's revealed about him is that, you know, his dad used to shoot things like bra ashtrays off the TV. That reminded me of the leg lamp from a Christmas story, by the way. Oh, yes.

[01:02:34] But I do think there's a pretty damn good chance that Daryl's life ends up a lot better than it would have been if there had never been a zombie apocalypse. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, so there's one good thing about the end of the world for Daryl. Um, creepy and gory stuff. Uh, I really liked when they were in the trunk and had to wait out this herd of walkers.

[01:03:01] It was, I was thinking of what I would feel like in there. And I liked that it was always from their point of view and that it would be scary as hell. I do think it was kind of dumb to hide in a trunk. Cause what if the walkers were like, oh, this would be a good place to stand for the next few months. You know, you never know what they're going to do. But I think the point was to have them in close quarters and not talking to show how shut down Daryl is and how there's this relational gap between them.

[01:03:29] And that even though they're close together in space, they're not really connected. I guess that's kind of what I got out of it. Um, I loved how creepy it was inside the golf club, dark and twisty passages, just illuminated by their flashlights and very quiet. And then Beth steps over a dead guy to get to a wine bottle and then backs into this server zombie and then had to shove it in his face. And it, you could see it was full of wine, but it all got wasted. I like that. Cause she was alcohol.

[01:03:58] Um, Daryl wailing on the one side with the, okay. We already talked about that a couple of times, Beth steps over a dead body in the kitchen and then in the bar. And I would think you might want to shove a knife through its head first and not just, you know, just like there's, you know, sometimes there's, there might wake up. Yeah. Uh, I guess that's all I had except for notes. So Dina notes. Notes. I have a few notes.

[01:04:22] The one thing I should have mentioned at the top about that cold open, uh, the first sound we hear the TV sound, not nature, um, is music when Beth is lighting that fire. And I know it's bear McCreary and he did outlander. So it has that kind of Scottish Irish Gaelic tone to it, which I think I'm reading into it, but it reminded me that she's Irish. Yeah. The greens. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:04:51] And yeah, cause she played the parting glass. She's saying that with Maggie. I'm learning that on the piano. Oh, lovely. I'm trying to get it to Pogue's level, but I can't, I can't go that fast. Shane McGowan has me beat. Um, the first word spoken that's, I need a drink, which I thought was great. Um, this is some geeky stuff. So you kind of touched on this, Jason, about the moonshine, uh, in book club.

[01:05:21] We read this book called the poisoners handbook murder and the birth of forensic medicine in jazz age, New York. Ooh. Oh, slightly boring. But my favorite chapter was about during prohibition. 60 people died and another hundred went blind making wood alcohol. Whoa. Wow. I thought she was going to go blind. Hershel was right. He was. Always listen to your daddy. Yeah. Um, unless you're Daryl.

[01:05:50] Unless you're Daryl. Right. Although it did say his dad taught him to hunt. That was the one good thing we've heard. And I enjoyed that detail. And it reminded me cause I had this stepdad from the age of like four or five years old until I was like 16 or 17. And we didn't get along at all, but he taught me how to play chess. And I always think about that. Like, yeah, that was the one good thing you did. Are you teaching yourselves? Yeah. Excellent. I can only do checkers.

[01:06:19] I don't have that kind of a chess brain. Um, what else? Okay. This is actually for you guys and all the listeners, because I refuse to look up theories on the internet. The clock thing is driving me bloody crazy. So there's, I was watching it. I watched the scene over and over again. There was no need to push that clock back up. They could easily have crawled in between. He did. So why?

[01:06:48] Like it's so, and they take the time for him to shine the flashlight on it. And look at it. And later on in Noah's neighborhood, they're all running by and there's a grandfather clock on the ground. But they all look at it. And what, what is the symbolism? Is it just the time theory that Dell brought out? I always read it as like that.

[01:07:09] And also, I remember at uni learning about, um, basically the introduction of time in like the 19th century in terms of like when the trains will run on time and it being this huge thing about modernity and civilization. And I wonder if time and timekeeping is, is nodding to like them trying to get to a point where timekeeping is relevant again. And Beth's trying to, I don't know, Daryl's kind of hedonistic. Like, like, it doesn't matter. We're, we're. Right.

[01:07:39] She's trying to preserve. Where she's like, I'm trying to preserve this. I'm going to put it back up without consciously doing it. You know? It was Daryl. Oh, did Daryl put it back up? Put it back up. Yeah. And he's the one who looked at it. Um, and I, it was in Latin. I think it, oh, what did it say? I don't know. Time is. Oh, it's Tempus Fugit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Time flies. Yeah. Cause it's in the, um, it's in the IMDB notes. Sorry. It's not because I remember that, but yeah, it means time flies. Yeah. I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

[01:08:09] So I don't know. I don't even remember anything about a clock or anything. Jason's checked out. He's like, I watched a different show. I just don't remember. I watched White Lotus this week. What did you watch? I must have been taking notes or something. Oh yeah. But I want people to write in. Can I do that? I'm not really the owner of this podcast. Okay. Yeah. You all have your mission. Do it. You'll get graded. My last note is about the mountain goats. So. I have a mountain goat steep dive as well, Dana. I'm really excited. I bet.

[01:08:38] It's the same thing. I bet. Do you want to wait? Should I wait for you? Go for it. Go for it. Tell me. Tell me. Okay. So did you read, um, John Green's Anthropocene review? No, I haven't. I'm reading about it today. Weirdly. Yeah. Oh, that's okay. So I, I recommend everyone read this book. He basically does Amazon reviews of random things. So he dedicates one whole chapter to the mountain goats. Oh, of course he does. Cause his books are just, yeah. Loaded with it.

[01:09:06] And he says, I don't know how to tell you about my love for the band, except to say it's genuinely unconditional. The mountain goats have shaped the way I think and listen so profoundly that I don't know who I would be without them. Only that I wouldn't be me. I just thought that was beautiful. I feel weirdly similarly. Um, well, my, my deep dive.

[01:09:33] So people who are not familiar with mountain goats, they've been around for like, it's so long. Like they were doing stuff in the late eighties, early nineties. Um, their front man, John Darnielle, uh, he turned up in poker face. He's written a book. He's a really, really interesting guy. Um, and their best album to my mind, um, was in the two thousands called the sunset tree. And the sunset tree is all about Darnielle tackling, according to Wikipedia, tackling the subject of his early childhood spent with an abusive stepfather.

[01:10:03] Um, it's got some of their very best songs on it, uh, including, uh, this year, which is one of just one of my absolute favorites and the one we hear, um, in this song up the wolves. So a little bit about the sunset tree and the album's liner notes. Um, it says made possible by my stepfather, Mike Noonan, 1940 to 2004, may the peace which eluded you in life be yours now dedicated to any young women, young men and women anywhere

[01:10:32] who live with people who abuse them with the following good news. You're going to make it out of there alive. You will live to tell your story, never lose hope. Um, and it's just, it's a, it's a really beautiful, powerful album. Um, and up the wolves, which we hear in this, uh, this episode is an allusion, I think, to the legend of Romulus and Remus and Romulus and Remus were the two twins who founded Rome.

[01:11:01] And that's mentioned in the song, but I hadn't realized, I went back and looked this up. Um, they were abandoned by their mother because, uh, I can't remember why, but the two of them are abandoned and they're raised by she-wolves, um, or a she-wolf. So they're kind of raised wildly and then they go on to do this thing where they, they create Rome. And I think there's something in that about not getting what you need necessarily from your parental caregivers and, and then going and finding yourself and building your empire

[01:11:30] in another place for another reason with another guidance source. Um, but if you do one thing this week, go and listen to the Sunset Tree. It's great. Yeah. And I had the pleasure of seeing them live in Glasgow in 2015, which was like the worst year. And it was really cathartic and we all sang. And if you ever get a chance to see them live, it's, it's great. It's just like shouting. It's like being a teenager again. It's fantastic. That's the best. Yeah. It is. It's cool. That's probably my only note, to be honest.

[01:12:00] I think we've covered everything else. The only thing I had is that I'm glad Beth mentioned missing her big brother, Sean, even though we never met him. It's just a nice detail to have that in there. Did we meet Sean in the comics? I feel like we did. Right. Yeah. But not in the show. No. Sean was always in the barn. Sean, Sean in the barn. It's also iconic that they burn money to set the moonshine shack on fire and give it the finger. I just love it. Those images are great. I was bawling by the end.

[01:12:29] I was like, so good. Anyway, IMDb dive. We've covered quite a lot of it. The walkers were stunt performers. Norman Reedus was a motorcycle mechanic before he started acting. That's a nice nod. This is the only episode of the show not to feature any guest actors at this point. I think that might change in later seasons. It also contains the fewest number of actors with just Norman Reedus and Emily Kinney appearing.

[01:12:59] I think that might stand. I think that might still be true, actually. Allegedly, it's Norman Reedus' favourite episode. Oh, wow. Norman Reedus and Greg Nicotero played poker in between takes in the country club. They also threw poker chips at the crew to alleviate the tension of working on such dark scenes. That just sounds mean. Yeah. Does this help? You stupid fucking cameraman throwing poker chips at those. Now give me my chip back. Yeah, give me my chip back. Stop. Stop beating me.

[01:13:29] On the Talking Dead poll after this show, the question was, what is the most useful lesson Daryl teaches Beth? How to drink moonshine one with 59%. This is the second time we see Daryl cry. The first time was in this sorrowful life. Beth finds a Washington, D.C. souvenir spoon, which is where the group eventually resettles. And during an argument, Daryl tells Beth she'll never see her sister Maggie again. And this turns out to be true as Beth is killed in season five before the pair reunite. Before the pair reunite.

[01:13:59] And this is happening over day 525 to day 526, which is January 31st to February 1st, roughly when Carl's eating pudding and the Grimeses are getting reunited. So we hopped back in time a little bit again. They don't exactly settle in D.C., but near there, right? Virginia. Right. Yeah. Alexandria. Yeah. Also, Emily Kinney, Norman Reedus said the snake they were eating was actually eel. That's what they said.

[01:14:25] But then this says Norman Reedus cut off the rattle during shooting and gave it to Andrew Lincoln. I don't know why. And then according to the EP Denise Huth, the photos of the country club presidents are staff from the show. John Sanders, the prop master, was one of the faces Daryl was throwing darts at. Oh, no way. That's awesome. I love it.

[01:14:50] And only on The Walking Dead would anyone throw away a perfectly good bottle of peach schnapps. I mean, rude. I'm with them. Throw it out. Only on The Walking Dead would you sit down to enjoy a nice meal of rattlesnake. I mean, maybe people do eat that. I don't know.

[01:15:13] I had some snake at, there's a night market in Beijing where they sell weird foods, right? And I had scorpion on a stick, which just tastes like anything fried. So it was totally fine. And then I was like, oh, let me try something else. And I got a snake and it was disgusting. Really? What did it taste like? Spongy. I mean, textures get me, you know. I feel like it would be chewy. Like there's some things I would never eat.

[01:15:42] Like I would never eat bear, but I can see why it would have good meat. I'm like, okay, I can understand that's probably tasty. With snake, I'm like, I don't get that. But I like eel. Yeah? Unagi. Unagi. Oh, that's right. I guess I like that too. Yeah. Huh. Just a better sounding name than eel. Do you have an Only on The Walking Dead? Oh, yeah. Only on The Walking Dead would someone who has never had alcohol drink moonshine and seemingly

[01:16:10] not get drunk, but the experienced drinker gets loaded. That's because she lied and she drinks all the time, but she was just trying to get Daryl to drink. I think you might be right. Beth has been drunk since we met her. We just didn't realize. How do you know how to play? I never. I watch my friends. Beth looks to camera like, no. If it was documentary style. I love that. Because I drank all the time. Because I drink all the time.

[01:16:39] I've been drunk since the farm.

[01:17:33] I've been drunk since the farm. I watched the finale and it was so great because Steven Yeun plays the title character, superhero Invincible, this teenage superhero, Mark Grayson. And he fought the villain who's played by JDM. So it was like a rematch. Oh, cool. With Glenn and Negan. That's great. Awesome. I love that. Yeah.

[01:18:00] So even if you don't watch that show, it's worth watching the most recent episode just for that. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to Listener Milds Grunts and Grunts. Matt King says, Daryl practicing his golf swing on the walkers was fun. Seeing Beth and Daryl drinking moonshine took me back to the Dukes of Hazzard. Oh, yeah. And Uncle Jesse's special moonshine recipe.

[01:18:28] And for the record, peach schnapps with lemonade is great. Yeah. I'm going to be a stand for peach schnapps. I'm with you, Matt. I love a little sneaky schnapps and lemonade. In fact, I haven't had one in a long time. Maybe I'll have one on Saturday for, oh, I should get some schnapps for the listener. Yes. Oh, my God. That's happening. I should have mentioned it in the body of it, but we're going to play Never Have I Ever this weekend. This episode may already be out by then. I mean, may not be out by then. I'm not sure.

[01:18:55] But we're all going to play it and it's going to be fun. I'm so excited. But I love that you mentioned Dukes of Hazzard. That really brought me back. And I totally forgot about Uncle Jesse's moonshine. Yeah. It was a great show. Sort of. Yeah, it could be. I loved it as a kid. Me too. Carissa from Philadelphia. Is PDX Philadelphia? Portland. Portland. I'm so sorry. I forgot how good the back half of season four was.

[01:19:23] There were some doozies coming up, but so far my favorites are after and claimed. The scene where Michonne sees a walker that kind of looks like her and then she chooses life. Taking out all of those walkers. Chills. And poor sweet Carl. I see I will be getting angry all over again about Carl's eventual demise multiple times during this rewatch. You and me both, Carissa. Yeah. That's one of the bad things about this rewatch. I know. Deborah Ulmer says, hi, Jason and Lucy. These silent, cold openings are acted so well.

[01:19:52] I like seeing Beth coming to more of our own, speaking her mind and standing up for what she wants to grumpy Daryl. She helps break his walls down and come to grips of what happened and how to move forward. They really are vulnerable with each other. This is a nice brother and sister relationship that they're forming. Y'all take care. Thanks, Deborah. Deborah. Nick Archer. I thought I could wait, but the following batch of episodes were too tempting. I found myself on the other side of Coda, Beth's death episode.

[01:20:22] And all I could think about was Rick saying to Daryl, I know you lost something back there. That and Daryl crying while he burns himself with a cigarette. Their relationship in this episode is beautiful to watch, the ups and the downs. But when he tells her to keep singing and lays down in the coffin, I always tear up. Oh, that's the next one. That's the next one, yeah. I, yeah, I was thinking there's a bit where Daryl says like, you're never going to see them again. And the first person he names is Rick.

[01:20:49] And at first I was like, is he naming that because he thinks Beth like has a crush on Rick or something? But I'm wondering if that's because that's who he's going to miss the most. Because then he says Maggie. Yeah. Because he thinks he's never going to see him again. Our friend Andy Fisher says, dear J. Hey, Lou, I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the great episode still. I love the details in this episode. Hiding in a car trunk to avoid a swarm. Eating rattlesnakes over a campfire. Georgia golf clubs. Class warfare. Peach schnapps. Bethel. We're great here.

[01:21:19] But this episode makes me sad that Beth's wonderful character dies so soon after this. Never have I ever drunk peach schnapps intentionally. Five pizzas and an engagement ring. It's my favorite sign off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Carly Jackson says, this episode is so good. I love pairing Beth with Daryl. Beth is so emotive and Daryl needs to learn how to express his emotions. Yep. It was powerful when he finally started talking about losing the people at the prison.

[01:21:49] Seemed like a father's journey for Daryl. How becoming a parent makes you open up to see the world differently because your child has to live in that world. I don't get that. Who's his child in that analogy? Beth tells him that he's changed from the guy he was before the ZA and that he needs to keep being the person who built the community at the prison. Maybe that's it. Having a child is the same thing as having something to care about. I love Beth's shiny smiling face when she's drunk so young but having a lot of wisdom. In vino veritas.

[01:22:19] Indeed. Jennifer McGinley says, the dreaded still. Oh. I respect your opinion. The dreaded still is here at last. First time round, I used to watch each episode twice or three times while waiting on the next one. This was the first one that I only watched once. I hated it. It's my least favorite episode. I watched it again recently for my rewatch. Still a bit ahead of you. And I still hated it.

[01:22:49] I hate seeing Daryl being mean and him pissing on the floor. It was really horrible. That's not what my man, D.D. would do. No, sweetie. He's my man. Okay. All right. Just kidding. Beth made a mean with her simpering and teenage angst. I agree that Peach Snaps doesn't quite cut it for a first drink, but not sure Moonshine does either. The only good thing about still is knowing now that stupid Beth hasn't longed up.

[01:23:19] Oh, shots fired. Oh my God. Never have I ever hated a Walking Dead episode as much as still. Tell us how you feel, Jennifer. I love that. That was pretty great. I'm really glad Dita read that one because you two are the biggest Daryl fans I know. Yeah. Well, on the other hand, we've got Becky Anderson who says, I love this episode. I think we get a tremendous amount of character growth with Beth and Daryl.

[01:23:49] Barrel, Bethel, whatever you want to call them. Two absolutely opposite people. Beth, ever the optimist, and Daryl, ever the pessimist. The progression of their friendship throughout the episode had some intense parts. I'm super glad they didn't push a romantic angle here. Didn't care for his aggression towards her, but proud of Beth for not putting up with it and then still being her awesome self, comforting him. Ah, loved it. I know a lot of people don't care for this pairing, but it's my favorite of these early seasons.

[01:24:15] These moments made me really come to care for Beth and makes me really miss her when she's gone. Yeah. Aw, Becky. Quite right. Yeah. And I know I keep saying this, but this was full on Walker Stalker and I saw so many Beths walking around on the convention floor. Cute. Looking just like she did in this episode. Cute. All right. Here's a call from Steve Brown. Hello, the cast of us. This is Steve. And this is going to be for The Walking Dead season, whatever season we're in. Still.

[01:24:43] Ooh, it's the Daryl and Beth episode. They're going to crawl in this trunk? Oh, this was quite the horde that was following them because I don't know how long they've been in this trunk, but it's been a while. Hey, I understand scavenging for stuff, but why a hubcap and a piece of glass? Oh, okay. Piece of glass to make a fire with. And hubcaps for noisemakers. Okay. Mmm. Rattlesnake for breakfast. Okay. So in search of an alcohol drink, they find a golf course. Golfers like to booze it up, right? I've heard they do. I don't play golf. Oh, people hang themselves?

[01:25:13] How did the walkers know they were in there? I guess they saw them from across the field. That far, they were still able to... I don't know. Okay. Stealth walker comes out of nowhere, but Beth at least knew what to do with that bottle. Somebody killed a woman and hung a sign around her neck. Not very flattering either. Maybe the people in the other room didn't hang themselves, or they were hanged. The clock was jarring and all, but who kept it wound? Oh, Daryl letting out a little aggression with that golf club, and he just got blood all over Beth's new clothes.

[01:25:42] They made it to the bar, but what did Daryl... What picture did you take off the wall? Pete schnapps. Nah. We come back from the non-existent commercial, and it looks like Beth has gotten a different shirt, because this one doesn't have blood on it. Yeah. But, oh, the callback to Zach and what Daryl did before the fall. Oh, Daryl found some moonshine. Oh, here we go. Now they're playing the Never Have I Ever game. Never needed a game to get lit before. So Daryl has never been to jail as a prisoner.

[01:26:09] Oh, Daryl drunk is not being kind to Beth right here. Oh, I'm choked up because I just realized... I had to pause it because I just realized that Beth never does see any of them again, does she? She doesn't see Maggie or Rick or any of the others again. Or does she? I don't know. I know she and Maggie don't see each other. I don't remember. Best thing in this rewatch is I have not rewatched the whole series since it aired, really. So Daryl admitting that he's a dick when he's drunk. Oh, Beth being kind of prophetic here, Daryl's going to be the last man standing.

[01:26:38] I mean, we still don't know yet because the Daryl Dixon show, The Book of Carol, season three is coming. What is it called? That smile on Beth's face. We should burn it down. Really seems really dangerous, though, to burn this cabin down like this just in the middle of the forest. As cathartic as it might be. All right. Just one couple story this time. Nobody else. Next week, we'll see where everybody else is.

[01:27:01] Yeah, I think Rick comes into the hospital where she's been held and there's a confrontation with Rick and the leader of this group and maybe Beth sees him then, but she dies almost immediately, if I remember right. And Maggie's not there. She's outside because Daryl carries Beth's body out. Right. That was heartbreaking. Yeah. Yep. All right.

[01:27:30] Chantel Schmale says, hey, Jason, Lucy, I had no idea that Mr. Renee was going to be your special guest. I gasped, shrieked. Oh, my God. Yay. And started clapping. That's awesome. And she said, and I'm Renee. Such a cool addition to the show. I love her. I know that I haven't provided feedback in quite some time. Life is keeping me crazy busy, but I'm still listening to her rewatch coverage. I promise to write in soon. I'll probably, it'll probably be for Tyrese's death episode, which is one of my all time favorite episodes of television. It was so gorgeous.

[01:28:00] It was beautifully shot, layered with tons of symbolism. The performances were fantastic. Chef's kiss and Ty is one of my favorite characters. So I'll definitely have some things to say. Good. Yeah. Everyone take care of one another. Keep your heads up and keep hope alive. Heart. Okay. Bye. Oh, Chantel. Thanks, Chantel. That was good. Chandra Wright, never have I ever played. Never have I ever. And I'm pretty sure my first drink was heavy on the schnapps.

[01:28:27] I love this episode and the next, we get a more open Daryl and hear him verbalize more than ever before what life was like growing up and in the time just before the apocalypse. Both of them have moments of being pretty annoying, but they are traveling buddies for this episode and travel buddies always get on your nerves eventually, even if just for a short while. The last 10 minutes are golden. I like how Beth calls out the warm escape alcohol offers and that leaning into leaning

[01:28:56] into that too far could be dangerous. My own father was an alcoholic and I can see it now how easy of an escape that could be, especially without other coping mechanisms to rely on. As far as falling for each other goes, how could they not? Daryl is strong, so capable and easy on the eyes. Although I can only imagine that trunk was pretty funky after their overnight. My kid said exactly the same thing. I did think that. She's like, ew, they must smell so bad.

[01:29:28] Beth is beautiful, brave and sees right into him, causing him to feel all the feels. She delivers her line simply and beautifully. You'll be the last man standing and you're going to miss me so bad when I'm gone, Daryl Dixon. Do we think Beth is who he thought of when Sylvie asked if he had ever been in love during the Daryl Dixon show? Anyway, looking forward to next week. Looks like we've got a shipper on our hands here. I guess so. He was thinking about dog. Yes.

[01:29:59] Like, I once had a really great dog. He's thinking about Leah. Yeah, he is. As much as we don't want to admit it. It's her. It's dog. I refuse to believe it. You know, every time someone mentions dog, Peter is still like, dog's a traitor. He went to Leah, he's like, dog's a fucking traitor. And I'm like, oh my God. That was Leah's dog. Really cute. Peter's a cat guy. So like, he's like very upset with dogs. So anyway. Well, cats are the biggest traitors, but go ahead. True. Catsly. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:30:29] I love cats, by the way. We love cats. Any cats listening, we see you and we love you. Yes. Lara Willie Swank. Hello, Lara. It says, I really love this episode and the whole Daryl and Beth arc. There are many characters in The Walking Dead who were integral to Daryl's evolution and Beth was one of the main ones. I know this is a polarizing episode because a lot of people either really hate it or really love it. I am of the latter opinion. I loved their dynamic together. And even though it caused a real schism in the fandom with people who loved the idea

[01:30:58] of Carol and Daryl, I always felt like there were a lot of romantic tropes thrown into the brief relationship shared by Daryl and Beth. As a romance novel reader, and you've picked the right episode to write in, Lara, here are the tropes I detected in this and the next D&B episode alone. One, forced proximity slash road trip romance. Two, drunken secrets and confessions revealed. Three, grumpy slash sunshine relationship. Four, beauty and the beast allegory. Don't call Beth a beast. Yeah, that's what I'm kidding, Lara.

[01:31:28] Five, nurse to health trope. Six, romantic isolated location. If you can call a mortuary filled with candles romantic in my book, yes. And seven, secret longing. The way Daryl watched Beth sing at the piano looked like longing to me. Maybe it is not a story of physical romance. Maybe just a desire to experience something good, pure and beautiful. I thought it was a nice diversion from all the death, fighting, destruction and loss the whole group had just experienced. But it makes the end of their arc so much more tragic when it happens. Aww.

[01:31:58] You know, I wrote my master's thesis on why women read romance novels. And I'm also a lifelong romance novel reader. So Lara has it completely right. I see totally where people go down the route of romance with this. And it's pretty easy to do because she nails all the tropes. Um, I just kind of chose to look at it as a brother and sister relationship.

[01:32:25] It's, he seems so resentful at the fact that he has to take care of this little girl. Um, cause I see her as a little girl at age 18, but, but I totally get it. I totally get it. I, I, yeah, I'm, I remember, like I said earlier already, I remember feeling like that when I first watched it, like maybe, but now this time I don't get those vibes. And I think that's in part because I am better at doing a deeper dive and kind of getting a

[01:32:54] real hit of what I think the writers intended. And I think we covered that really well. And I don't think it had anything to do with romance now, but I, I'm sort of reserving judgment until I watched next week's episode too, because I feel like there might be a little bit more of that in there, but I remember. There definitely is. I mean, like, yeah, hear me out. Like I've, I've been banging this drum for like 10, 13 years now. I really do read Daryl as quite an asexual character. And part of me wonders if this stuff with Beth is about him feeling for the first time in his life,

[01:33:24] maybe like he could be capable of that kind of romantic feeling, but not hitting it, not getting it, not hitting it, not as in like, he hit it, like not, not hitting the feeling of it. Um, I don't know, just this, I think Larissa has a desire to experience something good, pure and beautiful. Maybe that's it. Maybe he's like, why am I not feeling? Anyway, just a thought. I agree with that. Except the asexual thing. Cause obviously, hello.

[01:33:54] No, Dina's talking about herself. Oh, sorry. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. I'm waving to Daryl in the background. He's just behind Dina cooking dinner in the nude. Oh my gosh. Bye guys. Okay. Robin Mark says, love this episode. Robin of Edinburgh. Love these two together. Beth is an interesting contrast to Daryl because she has a level of optimism and naivete that Daryl likely never got to experience in his life.

[01:34:24] Yeah. Even the way I keep thinking about him watching work and Mindy with Merle. Like at least they had that, you know, uh, even the way they both deal with their grief is so different. Beth chooses something else to fixate on a drink while Daryl is just on autopilot. The walking does really good with environmental storytelling in general, but I love the golf club for this. You get a really good sense of what went down as they pass through each room. Beth also picks out the shirt she's wearing when she dies. Oh, that wasn't a flood, right?

[01:34:52] It was her picking out a new shirt. That's why it wasn't bloody. Right. She came out. Sorry, morbid. I know it was all I could think when I saw her in the yellow. Yeah. Yep. This is the first few times I rewatched this episode. I always thought Daryl was just being normal Daryl, but I think the aggression is just his way of coping with how devastated he is. The peach schnapps slander is not appreciated here. They're never have I ever game is honestly just really sad.

[01:35:17] Beth accidentally offending Daryl and then trying to make up for it by framing it as a guess the job game is painful to watch. LOL. And then he immediately makes me screech laugh at can't hear you. I'm taking a piss. One of the reasons I like these two together so much is because of the talk they have at night. Yeah. I like though this talk. It's a level of vulnerability. Daryl doesn't really ever show again, in my opinion. There's got to be. Yeah.

[01:35:46] Beth is good at pulling that out of him just by being her. And then the best needle drop of the series, the mountain goats. Yeah. Up the Wolf. Yay. Such a fitting song for the scene and especially for Daryl as a character. The album this song is from is about the singer reflecting on his life as a teenager after the death of his abusive stepfather. I remember losing my mind when I heard this song play at the end of the episode, a very good live version. She gave a link and I'll try to remember to put that in the show notes. Oh, wonderful.

[01:36:17] That's great. That was good. Robin. All right. Here is Sierra from Ontario. Hey, Jason. I'm Lucy. This is Sierra calling you once again from Ontario, Canada. I just wanted to give my little update. So last we spoke, I was, I want to say early to mid season five and fear the walking dead.

[01:36:40] And I still haven't gotten through the rest of season five because it has been so slow and painful for my partner and I to watch. Um, which is not crazy to say, like I, I said, I listened, I've listened to you guys for long enough now that I know how you guys feel about the show. So I wasn't getting my hopes up and honestly wasn't really going to watch it in the first place.

[01:37:08] And I think I had mentioned it was actually my partner that suggested it, but I'm pausing. I feel like we're listening to someone who we said, don't hit yourself in the head with a hammer. And then they called in and they're like, well, I've hit myself. It really fucking hurt. And she really liked it in the beginning, like especially not beginning, beginning.

[01:37:33] I thought a lot of them were pretty stupid and I know we're obviously watching the start of everything and you know, people aren't just going to start like bludgering heads right away. But I don't know. Anyway, it was good. And then it was really good. And then now it's terrible. Yep.

[01:37:56] Anyway, I watched the episode before the finale last night and I thought it was okay. Honestly, considering the rest of the episodes, like it was pretty good compared, but I still don't think I'm going to watch season six, seven, eight. I think there's eight seasons, right? Yep. But who knows?

[01:38:26] I guess we'll see how the finale is. No, no, no. I definitely more so just care about hearing you guys talk about it, to be honest. I also noticed you guys have a White Lotus podcast. Really good. My partner and I like binge that after watching Finishing the Walking Dead and before watching Fear.

[01:38:51] But this was like, you know, like a month before season three came out. And for whatever reason, I'm like, I really liked the show. But I just, I don't know. I don't know anyone that watches the show, to be honest, besides my partner and I. So I don't have any, like, I don't know. I don't know where I'm getting this from, but I just have a feeling that it's not going to be good. But maybe I'm wrong.

[01:39:14] But now that I see you guys are podcasting on it, I'm intrigued to listen to you guys cover season one and two. And then maybe you guys will convince me to watch season three. I don't know. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks again for being so fucking cool, guys. Have a wonderful day. Thank you, Sierra. That was a great ad for a show that I'm very much enjoying right now.

[01:39:43] And probably more than seeming a lot of people are saying it slow. I'm so digging it. I love it. But I'm really, really grateful you got me into that show. Oh, good. Yeah, I'm so happy. Yeah, I thought you might like it. I love the seasons about Buddhism a lot, Buddhist concepts, because they're in Thailand. White Lotus we're talking about in case people didn't get that. And it's such a breath of fresh air to me, that show, because it's so very adult compared to almost anything else I watch.

[01:40:14] And it's just so smartly written. Every episode is written and directed by the same guy, Mike White. And I think he's a genius. It's great. And the podcast is great, too. Thank you. It's me and Randy. You know Randy? He used to send in some funny songs and stuff. And now he does Welcome to the Apocalypse, if you guys listen to that, the improv podcast. But he's our co-host with me and my wife, Jenny. Oh, it wasn't Randy that sent us in.

[01:40:43] It was Margaret, the British lady. Oh, yeah. It was Margaret. Yeah. Okay. Rachel Teal Edwards says, I was all ready to leave a voicemail this week because never have I ever. And it seemed unfair to make someone else read my thesis. But life has a way of throwing curveballs. And I'm currently in the hospital, likely to be induced today. Yay. Yay. Yay. Yay. Thank God I prioritized this and finished writing it yesterday.

[01:41:14] Oh, Rachel. Rachel. Tell us how it went. Yeah. On your late night feedings, you can listen to this. Yeah. Cheers, Jason, Lucy, and Dina. Can't wait to listen. And if you actually read this whole essay, I thank you. But if not, I get that, too. Happy emoji. Heart. It does matter. These are the three most significant words spoken in this episode. And it's with these three words that we can fully begin to understand why the relationship between Beth and Daryl is so powerful.

[01:41:44] Welcome to my TED Talk. We find Daryl in a state of utter despondency. He's back in pure survival mode, barely speaking, simply putting one foot in front of the other. We see that Beth is keeping up with them and that they're so in sync there's no need for verbal communication. We should have, like, had a four-person podcast. This woman gets it.

[01:42:09] We also see a look on Beth's face that says, this isn't the lifestyle I'm willing to put up with for much longer. Survival isn't the only thing that matters. Like many people, I was turned off by this pairing at first. Daryl has to take care of Beth now. What does she have to offer? Does she deserve his protection? This is weird. Pass. And at first, we think she's proving us right. She wants to go on the hunt for booze? How basic. But soon we see the fire in Beth. She calls Daryl out almost immediately.

[01:42:38] What the hell is wrong with you? Do you feel anything? They lost everything. She acknowledges and that sucks. But living still matters. We might as well do something. She needs a mission. And in lieu of an obvious one being provided to her, she'll find her own. Daryl takes one last look at their camp, considering the fact that Beth might be right. It does suck ass. And he follows her. They walk through this absolute disaster of a country club. And these sets are amazing, by the way.

[01:43:07] I can't imagine the time it took for the prop master and production designer to create this world. Few words are spoken, but each of them are finding their own items of importance. Daryl's still gathering survival items, because survival is what matters, of course. And Beth is looking for booze and finding clean clothes. The mission matters, as does feeling fresh in the midst of death, decay and loss. Yeah.

[01:43:32] It does matter, Beth says, as she attempts to provide some dignity to a long-deceased woman who was mutilated and mocked in her death. Daryl doesn't see the point. It doesn't matter. She's dead, he states. But with Beth's insistence, he obliges. The scene is briefly and easily overlooked, but Beth's belief that this woman's dignity matters is a meaningful example of her warmth, her empathy, the light that she provides in such a dark world, the energy that Daryl needs.

[01:43:57] Some might say Beth is naive or immature, and I do think it's important to acknowledge that Daryl's survival skills are essentially what allows for them to be here on this seemingly frivolous mission. But what is survival without living? Beth answers our concerns with her acknowledgement of the frivolous nature of her quest. I know you think this is stupid, and it probably is, but I don't care. All I wanted to do today was lay down and cry, but we don't get to do that, so beat up on walkers if that makes you feel better. I need to do this.

[01:44:25] Now we understand there's so much more to this than just wanting a drink. Daryl has just made the conscious decision to beat the shit out of some walkers, openly showing us how very angry he is. He seems completely detached, barely responding to anything Beth has said, until she breaks down when facing a complete admission, the bottle of brews in front of her. For a moment she allows her own feelings of sadness, loss and hopelessness to cream in. Cream in? To creep in?

[01:44:50] Does anything matter anymore? A spark of empathy is lit in Daryl. Ain't gonna have your first drink be no damn peach schnapps. Fuck it, this matters. The mission is not over. We will not settle. Follow me. And she does. Daryl's attitude seems to change a bit at the cabin. They're having actual conversation and he even seems gratified, being able to give Beth a legitimate first drink. The mission has been accomplished together and they both relax a little.

[01:45:16] We get a glimpse into Daryl's life when he was growing up. We learn more about what kind of man his father was. He shot things inside your house? That matters. And we can tell Daryl didn't really think twice about this until she mentioned it. He shrugs it off because, well, it didn't matter. It was all junk anyway. Beth teases him and Mr. Dixon sits in the camel chair with the bottle of moonshine and says, Home sweet home.

[01:45:39] But despite his nonchalant attitude, this place is not putting him in the best mindset for drinking with a girl who couldn't possibly relate to any of it. We can guess it's fanning the flames of his anger, reconnecting him to a past he thought he left behind. We get a brief yet unforgettable moment of relaxed but awkward connection between two characters who couldn't be more different. And then the fight begins. Everything is finally unleashed. These two actors give this scene everything they have and I'm transfixed every time.

[01:46:07] Absolute raw emotion and visceral energy between these two is perfection. Daryl's anger that everything is lost and nothing matters up against Beth's totally opposite understanding. Another frustration with him because everything still matters now more than ever. How dare you just give up? She challenges him to stop bullshitting and just confess that he cares. She tells him, I know you look at me and see just another dead girl, but you don't get to treat me like crap. And she calls him out for being afraid. He cuts her deep by telling her she's never going to see her friends and family ever again.

[01:46:37] And we as the viewers feel the gut punch of knowing he's actually right. And she cuts him deep by bringing up Sophia. Yeah. When everything is said and done and Daryl finally allows himself to be honest, we discover that he is most angry with himself, blaming himself for the prison fall, Herschel's death, for all of it. Beth finally understands and gives him the purest hug from behind, trying with all of her warm energy to comfort him. No words needed because no words would ever suffice. She just holds him while he cries.

[01:47:05] Yeah, she really held space for him there. It would be an exercise in futility for me to try to express in words the ineffable perfection of the last 10 minutes of this episode. I'll just say it's like reaching calm seas after fighting through 14 foot swells in the midst of a storm. We continue to soak in the pure emotion, but now they're on a much deeper level of understanding and empathy. Beth has space to express herself for sadness and crushed dreams. Daryl continues to let his honesty flow.

[01:47:33] Beth acknowledges her mortality. And for a moment, we see Daryl considering what Beth has been trying to express all along. Is it going to be worth being the last man standing if I don't have someone by my side? If I don't have people and a purpose to fight for? Well, he'll have Laurent. So that's survival isn't all that matters. You're going to miss me so bad when I'm gone, Daryl Dixon. And she pleads with him to keep being the person he's become. Daryl helped Beth survive.

[01:48:01] But we can see in this moment that Beth has saved Daryl. She's brought him back from the dead, from the dark pit of despair and hopelessness. The look of pure joy on Beth's face when Daryl agrees to burn it down is matched only by Daryl's small but striking smile as they walk away from the burning cabin. He understands now. It does matter. Damn. We had the same thesis. It's incredible. Also, I just looked this up because as I was reading this, I'm like, damn, this is a really well-written episode.

[01:48:29] It's Angela Kang that wrote it. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah. I should have known. You know, the only line, and I know you guys will disagree, I couldn't stand that took me out of the episode is the, you're going to miss me so bad when I'm gone, Daryl Dixon. It's so romance novel-y. It really is, right? And I'm like, yeah. Yeah.

[01:48:54] I felt like the whole point of that was for her to say, you need to be able to go on without me. And then to throw that in there, it's almost antithetical to it. Like, you're going to wish I was there. Yeah. But I still loved it anyway because just the way she delivered it, I don't know. I liked it. You just like romance novels. Yeah, that's right. Secretly. Secretly. You're reading them in your tub with lighted candles. I'll have to read one and figure it out.

[01:49:23] I haven't gotten around to it yet. I do. I'll send you a couple. Okay. Yeah. I am curious. I should probably read one before I die at some point. Yeah. Definitely. All right. That is our show, episode 630. Thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you, Dina, for coming on board. It was a pleasure as always. Thanks. Oh, so good. Thanks for having me. Dina wrote three, I always want to mention this, three romance novels.

[01:49:53] Yeah. And is there any preference where people look for those? No, just Amazon. Okay. Go to Amazon, search for Dina Karatsis. That's K-E-R-A-T-S-I-S if you're curious. Well, they're kind of cheesy though. Fair warning. I love it. I should read those first. Next step, we're shifting gears to get ready for The Last of Us. Next time, we'll do an episode where we talk about just some of the news that's come out

[01:50:21] about The Last of Us and thoughts about how they might adapt the second game and just things like that. I think we'll probably do a less spoilery segment up front so that you don't have to be afraid to start listening to it. But then when we get into details about the second game, we'll warn people ahead of time in case somebody doesn't want to hear that. Then the next week after that, we will do a season one catch up just to remind everyone of what's happened so far. And then after that, The Last of Us season two premieres. Nice.

[01:50:52] If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, in this case, The Last of Us, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. While you're there, please check out our other podcast. So much going on right now. Listen to Welcome to the Apocalypse. You can hear Randy. Yes. Be good. This episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Jeffrey Ashton, who've pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cavassi.

[01:51:20] So thank you to Jeffrey, who I hope he doesn't mind me saying this as a chess champion. That's like one cool thing about him. And he posts a lot in our Facebook groups for the different shows. We have chats actually for each and every show that we cover and people can go in and talk about that. And if Jeffrey wants, he can join me and Lucy, Peter, and I think Karen is going to be there for Never Have I Ever this weekend. Are you going to be there? Dina?

[01:51:49] Dina's going to be there too. Amazing. Getting over my social anxiety and coming. Yeah. Oh, wonderful. I mean, there'll be booze. No better way to do that than confessing secrets with drink to people you've never met. It's great. Yeah, it's really good. It's great. Certainly recommend it. Thanks. That helps you feel better. All right. So that is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Lara Willyswink. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.