631: The Last of Us Pre-Season Two Chat

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast Control!

[00:00:57] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Eric. And I'm Ben. And this is The Cast of Us, Episode 631. Welcome guys. We're shifting gears here. Great to be back. It's been a long time. I'm excited to have you both back and to be shifting gears. Before we get into anything, I want to congratulate Rachel Teal Edwards and Josie Bowen Ektal, two listeners who both had beautiful little babies recently since the last time we've podcasted. Oh, wow. Congratulations. That's fantastic. Congratulations to both of you.

[00:01:28] Now on to business. So The Last of Us Season Two premieres in about two weeks on Sunday, April 13th. Are you guys excited? I'm stoked. Very much so. I'm so stoked. It's been a long time. I hope we can have the next season in a shorter amount of time. How long has it been? I don't even remember how long it's been. Seven years? No, I'm just kidding. You had me for a second there. I'm like, well, maybe that makes sense. Two years, right? I think it's been two years.

[00:01:57] Yeah. 2023. Okay. Okay. All right. That's not too bad. Better than Severance. Yeah, that's true. I guess it could be worse. Yeah. Has there been any indication if they're filming seasons two and three back to back or is it, have they not said anything about that? Okay. Not that I've read. Yeah. But there's only seven episodes. So you'd think that they would be nice and give us more sooner,

[00:02:20] but they're supposed to be real. I mean, keep saying they're really dense, you know, and they're just putting a hell of a lot into it. So there's that. Maybe give us like mini movies. Yeah.

[00:02:32] Like that. Yeah. Last September, like a few months ago, I put up a poll in the podcast Facebook group asking which shows that podcast covers were most people looking forward to coming back. We had 31 shows listed shows like, you know, Dead City, Yellow Jackets, Squid Game, Fallout, and or all the ones that we covered. And guess which show got the most votes? Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. Ghosts.

[00:02:58] Just kidding. It was the last of us by far. 103 votes. Stranger Things was next with 59. So people are excited. Did you say ghosts, Eric? Yes, I did. Okay. I was trying to think of the one show nobody would want you voting on anywhere. Not even the US version. Golden Girls. It's the BBC version of ghosts too.

[00:03:20] So, so we're taking a break if you haven't guessed from the Walking Dead rewatch switching back over to the last of us with a couple of preseason episodes leading up to the season two premiere. In this episode, we're going to go over some news about the upcoming season. And then in a second segment, we'll talk a bit about how we think and hope they'll do it based on the games. So if you're sensitive to spoilers, here's how it's going to be in this episode.

[00:03:47] The first segment, the new segment will have some medium to light spoilers, mostly light, some details of where the characters are at and what the story will be. So if you haven't played the last of us part to the game and you, you like going in completely fresh, then you probably shouldn't listen to this episode next week. Lucy and I will be back. We'll be doing a catch up for season one. They'll have zero spoilers for season two. So you might want to come back for that one. But if you're still on board, listen to that one. Great.

[00:04:14] Then the second segment in this episode is where we're going to talk about comparisons to the game and our hopes and thoughts about where they'll go with season two. And that's just going to be full on spoilery for the game and potentially for the show because the show tends to follow the game. So I would only listen to that if you've either already played or watch the second last of us game or you just don't care about spoilers because there's some pretty big ones. And we'll warn you again when we get to that part.

[00:04:45] Infected news. So we'll start with some news about the last of us. I saw a bunch of articles and I started going through and I saw that a lot of them just pointed back to this one entertainment weekly article. So we're kind of going to just read through a lot of that and talk about it. You know, if we have any thoughts first, Neil Druckmann, who's of course the director of the game and the co showrunner of the series.

[00:05:10] He's he was talking about how while they were making the last of us part to he and Craig Mason, the other showrunner were already planning out the first season of the HBO show. And they were talking some about how they would adapt the second game that was just being made at that time. And during that time, you guys probably remember a bunch of details of the second game leaked out and God. Yeah. And it was a big thing. And people were really judging it based on out of context details.

[00:05:38] And there was a I mean, some of the fans of the game are pretty rotten, honestly. It's not just this game. That's pretty much. Yeah. Fandom has become so toxic on everything now. And there was this huge negative response online. So the article picks up from their toxic reactions and even death threats against the creators and actors followed. Of course, that totally makes sense. The response wasn't so much to the story choices themselves.

[00:06:04] It was that they were received out of context, prompting the gamer community to make their own assumptions and judgments. Quote, some of that stuff was borderline traumatic. Druckmann admits reflecting on the response nearly five years later as he and Mason are about to present the game story to a new kind of audience. Quote, it happened in the beginning of covid. So there are a lot of very negative things all happening at once. You can't help but think about it now. It's one of those stories that will forever be stuck with me. But our brand is that we pander to no one.

[00:06:33] We do what's best for the story and whatever happens happens. There's a very particular story we wanted to tell and we stuck to our guns. This article says that strategy continues to pay off. The Last of Us Part 2 became a sensation selling more than four million units over its release weekend alone before going on to win award after award at the Oscars of the gaming industry, the game awards. And now as Mason and Druckmann prepare for the premiere of the show, seven episodes, second season, which begins their part two adaptation this April.

[00:07:03] They do so from a top of pedestal of their own making their teams work on the last of a season one starring Pedro Pascal as Joel and Bella Ramsey as Ellie Garner Game of Thrones level ratings and Emmy recognition. And I kind of think it's cool to say that, you know, we had a vision in mind and we put it out there rather than we tried to adjust to what the fans wanted, you know, because then it's true to the auteur's vision. And if you don't like it, that's okay.

[00:07:32] You don't have to watch it, but it's something pure. That's my thoughts. I don't know. What do you guys think? I agree. I mean, I think with, with video games, I'm not going to say you have a more leeway to do something like that because it is such a multi-billion dollar industry that has the same constraints that, I mean, it's a bold move. It is a bold move, but it seems like, um, actually it's really funny when you're reading what you're just reading. Uh, it got to, uh, but our brand is that we pander to, and it was over on the next page.

[00:08:02] I haven't read it yet. So I was really kind of waiting. When I turned the page, like, wait, who's it going to be? Oh, it's no one. He panders to no one. That's cool. Uh, here, I'll go ahead and continue on with the thing, but yes, absolutely. Yes. I agree. Tens of millions of people liked it week after week after week. And that's a number that's hard to get our minds around. Mason said we are accountable to them.

[00:08:24] And we think our job is to continue to do what we did, which is to challenge people and to delight them, surprise them and make them feel and provoke thought within them. We didn't react to the fear of the audience. Meaning our own fear of how they might react to it. Druckmann reinforces. We keep asking what's the best choice for the story for these characters. And that's the choice we make. Uh, I do want to interject here.

[00:08:47] I, I actually, I love the way that Mason and Druckmann did deviate from the story and the things that they added. Um, you know, maybe some things landed better than others, but I mean, we got great things like making Sam younger or, or, or making him deaf or, um, Frank and Bill. Bill, that's the big one. Frank and Bill. Absolutely. Of course.

[00:09:11] And, and, um, I was actually just rewatching season one of white Lotus and seeing Armand and, and I love, yeah, I know he's my favorite character in all of white Lotus still. Yeah. He's amazing. So sorry. I'll continue. Same act. Well, I mean, I mean, that's, that's like when I go back and I rewatch parks and rec, all I want is to see Ron Swanson eat strawberries.

[00:09:29] Like it's, you know, I would like to see Victoria from the white Lotus on the, uh, on the last of us just so we can, Joel, no, no, I need my little razepam. Okay. Here we go. I'll continue. Uh, season two picks up five years after the events of season one, which chronicle Joel and Ellie's trek across a post-apocalyptic pandemic scarred America.

[00:09:53] They are settled in the Jackson, Wyoming commune run by Joel's sister-in-law Maria, uh, played by Rutino Wesley, who now has a child with his brother, Tommy, Gabriel Luna. Ellie is for once, uh, enjoying a normal life as a teenager. She even has a crush on a girl named Dina played by Isabella Merced, who happens to be the ex of her close friend, Jesse played by young Mazino.

[00:10:17] However, there remains tension between her and Joel, who's still grappling with the actions he took to save Ellie's life on that cold firefly hospital bed in the season one finale. Bum, bum, bum. Oh, you mean, you mean grappling with the murder of multiple, multiple people and potentially. All justified. Well, I'm just kidding. And as we said at the beginning, it depends on if you're a parent or not. That's right.

[00:10:45] Well, we talked a lot about that, that point of view of the whole thing when we covered season one. And of course. Yeah. Yeah. And we'll be talking about it more, I'm sure. Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, the article continues on, uh, it's during this time of relative peace when Abby arrives again, details on Abby are intentionally left vague, but she's described by HBO pressers as a skilled soldier whose black and white view of the world is challenged as she seeks vengeance for those she loved.

[00:11:14] One big clue came in a previous trailer, which actually I stayed away from as many trailers as I could this time intentionally. Actually, so did I, and I never do that, but I did this time. I don't know why. Uh, which featured a particular closeup of a firefly pendant dangling from her neck. There's very little that gets into our show because of an accident. A coy Druckmann comments on that moment. The storylines for Ellie and Abby are so intertwined in the games that the casting of Caitlin Dever from Booksmart, No One Will Save You.

[00:11:43] Uh, also Last Man Standing with Tim Allen. I'll add that one in there because that's where I know her from. I haven't seen her in anything. I, and I hear she's great. So I hear she's also in something called Apple Cider Vinegar, which is a new movie or show somewhere. Yeah. Everything I hear about, I don't think I've seen her in anything either, but I just hear she's great. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's with, uh, if I remember right, that's with, uh, Alicia Debnem Carey, who's in, uh, Fear the Walking Dead. Okay.

[00:12:13] Uh, apparently, Catherine, uh, what's her name here? Caitlin Dever or Dever. Caitlin, Caitlin Dever, yeah. She, uh, she even has an Australian accent in Apple Cider Vinegar, yet she's not Australian, and I guess she gets kudos for it, from what I understand. I've seen, I've seen Booksmart, and as I mentioned, Last Man Standing, which was a series that ran for, I think about like eight or nine seasons with Tim Allen, and she was great in both, which is why I was actually really excited when she got cast as Abby.

[00:12:42] And people who didn't like the casting have obviously never seen her work. Mm-hmm. Uh, but, uh, that the casting of Caitlin Dever as Abby now feels poetic. Years prior to the HBO series, as Druckmann recalls, Screen Gems originally hoped to turn The Last of Us into a movie, though it never quite came together. They assembled a troupe of actors for Table Read, and among them was a young Dever who read for the role of Ellie. Actually, that would have worked, too. Mm-hmm. Uh, we just remained in touch, Druckmann says.

[00:13:11] I believe Craig had the idea of using Caitlin for Abby when we talked about season two. The reason we cast Caitlin is because she's an incredible actor. You look at her body of work and the way she throws herself at that stuff, we value performance over anything else. Uh, Abby isn't alone either. Among her crew are Owen, uh, Spencer Lord, a gentle soul and Abby's closest friend. Mel, Ariel Bearer, a doctor and Owen's girlfriend. Nora, uh, Tati Gabrielle, a military medic.

[00:13:41] And Manny, played by Danny Ramirez, a loyal soldier. All of whom struggle with their own past sins and traumas. I gotta say, I, because I've been avoiding a lot of material, I didn't even realize this whole, uh, they cast Abby's crew. I didn't realize that that's... Me neither. So, um, just reading this right now, I'm like, oh, wow, we do have an Owen, and we do have a mental end. I know them. So, yeah, so now I need to look at these actors and see who they are, because I know him. Yeah, and Danny Ramirez is one of those names, too, that really sticks out.

[00:14:11] So, I'm looking him up now to see where I know him from. Oh, he's, he's, he's, uh, in the new Captain America movie. That's how I know him. Oh, is he the, the Falcon? Yes. That guy? Yeah. Okay, good choice. Yeah, I like it. As Manny. Mm-hmm. Uh, goes on. One of the biggest differences from the game, which fans will no doubt point out, is Abby's physique. Game Abby, originally voiced and acted through performance capture by Laura Bailey, is a towering, muscled woman, while Deaver's Abby is closer in appearance to Ramsey's Ellie.

[00:14:40] In the spirit of getting ahead of any fan comments, Druckmann has a few thoughts on the subject. From a story standpoint, there are a few priorities for the show, Druckmann notes. While the game saw Abby maneuver like Joel, quote, in the way she can physically manhandle certain things, that element doesn't play as big of a role in this version. Quote, there's not as much violent action moment to moment, he says. It's more about the drama. I'm not saying there's no action there. It's just, again, different priorities in how you approach it.

[00:15:07] Quote, more importantly, quote, Caitlin has the spirit of the game in her, he continues. What I always loved about the idea was that you're going to continually be challenged as you were in season one. When you try to pick a hero, it's tough because we're human beings. We're not heroes. For every heroic act, there's someone who suffers on the other side who may see you reasonably as a villain. When you look at Caitlin, there's just something in her eyes where even no matter what she's experiencing, you connect.

[00:15:34] It was important that we found somebody that we could connect to the way we connect with Bella. Mazen adds, I personally think that there's an amazing opportunity here to delve into someone who's perhaps physically more vulnerable than the Abby in the game, but whose spirit is stronger. And then the question is, where does her formidable nature come from and how does it manifest? That's something that will be explored now and later. Or let's, I think we should, if we have thoughts on that difference.

[00:16:03] Well, I don't want to spoil anything from the game, but can you, do you have any thoughts on it that doesn't really spoil anything? Do you think it's okay? Are you kind of disappointed or what? I will say I'm actually kind of enthusiastic about the change only because, and trying not to spoil anything about the game too. Obviously, as it was made mention in that, Abby does have a much bigger physical appearance than Caitlin does.

[00:16:28] But I like the idea of putting Ellie and Abby more on a level ground. I think it makes them more formidable opponents. I mean, if you take somebody who has a bigger stature like Abby does in the game, obviously it's a bigger overcome to take on somebody like that. Somebody who's bigger than you, stronger than you. But for the sake of television, I actually like the idea of them being more level.

[00:16:53] I mean, personally, I was actually a little bit disappointed when I first heard that only because I thought it would be interesting to show something different on TV than what we usually see, just like it was in the game. But when they say things like performance is what we care about the most, then I'm like, yeah, that's cool. And also, I have a lot of faith after season one. So I'm just like, all right, let's see what you got for us, you know? And I am actually okay with the change.

[00:17:23] I'll say that right up front. I don't think it matters for TV. I think it's better. And because her physique was a point of contention with the game is that people complained about that. She's too bulky. She's too masculine. People don't get that large, right? Especially in the apocalypse. So this eliminates that part of it. Give them something less to complain about. Something less to complain about. I agree with you. And also, I'm sort of like, well, fuck that.

[00:17:53] You know, pardon me. Fair enough. But it's fine. It's fine. Okay. The article goes on to say, season two is indeed just the beginning. Mazin and Druckmann previously revealed their plans to adapt the events of part two across multiple seasons. While HBO has not officially greenlit a third outing just yet, conversations have been had. I think it's pretty likely that our story will extend past a season three, Mazin said. How far past? I can't say.

[00:18:23] According to Druckmann, their first exercise in mapping out the show's trajectory entailed splitting the entire narrative arc of part two into chunks to figure out what stories could be told or expanded upon. Once they pinpointed where to cap season two, which ended up being at episode seven, then began the excruciating detailed work of filling in the specifics. Each episode is like a meal. You can have a light dinner or you can go to a 12-course French restaurant, Mazin said.

[00:18:51] We have seven episodes. They are high-calorie, dense episodes. If you consider action and drama and scope to be the things that create an epic nature, each one of these episodes packs quite a wallop. You will not be bored. Oh, remember you said that, Craig Mazin. I have a feeling everybody's going to remember he said that. And if there's even a minor lull, people are going to be like, hey! I was bored!

[00:19:20] Sorry, the idea of that just makes me... You know you're going to hear it. I know. All right, moving on with the article here. That includes the incorporation of deleted material once considered for the game, some of which was presented for the first time in the remastered edition of part two. Druckmann teases that particular material is pretty brutal, but I'm very excited for people to see it. Catherine O'Hara will also arrive in a role we haven't seen in the games, and she's not the only one.

[00:19:46] There is a pretty dominant character that is talked a lot about in the game, similar to what we did with Frank Murray Bartlett in season one. That is in this season, he reveals. There's a very, very cool casting that I hope we can talk about soon. Oh, wow, that's a... I'm intrigued by that. Yeah. I think I did know that Catherine O'Hara was joining for this. I think I did see that one. I heard that one, yeah. Which I'm excited for, because I love Catherine O'Hara.

[00:20:16] Everything she pops up in, she's currently... I don't know if anybody's watching it, but there's another... The Studio on Apple. Just watched the first episode, yeah. I watched the whole first season. Apple sent me the whole first season. Oh, really? The whole first season is... It's chaotic, amazing. Like, it's so good. All right, I enjoyed the first one. That was good. Me too. Yeah, but I love that she's been cast. I can't wait to see what she's going to be doing in the season. The article continues on for just a little bit more.

[00:20:46] So many questions remain. The trailers released thus far showed Jeffrey Wright reprising the role he played in Part 2. That of Isaac. So cool. The leader of a large militia group. I love Jeffrey Wright in anything that he's in. If you didn't get what Ben was saying, he played this guy's voice in the game, and then they just cast him in the role for the show, which I think is awesome. Perfect. Which is great. Yeah. In the game, he's a figure players don't even see until the second half. Yet he will appear in Season 2 of the TV adaptation.

[00:21:15] Part 2 also played with a nonlinear timeline and swapped between the two main characters POVs of Ellie and Abby. Will the same method be employed on the show? A big part of the theme of the second game is about perspective, how someone's hero could be someone else's villain and vice versa. It's weird to talk about a story where its structure could be a spoiler, Druckmann acknowledges.

[00:21:38] I don't even know if it's worth mentioning where we landed, because I think that's part of the fun for people familiar with the game to see how we approach that challenge in the show. I will say that we gave it a lot of thought and tried different things. There are some deviations of where we place things. Regardless of how an audience reacts to those changes, the duo's numerous accolades and ratings wins across both the games and Season 1 of the show should tell you something. It seems like they know what they're doing.

[00:22:07] I think that's right. We'll find out. I will say I agree with that. Only because I know it's been talked about on these podcasts and other podcasts that video game adaptations are very hit or miss. They either hit very, very hard or they miss. I was going to say hit or miss. There's rarely a hit. It's the rarest thing in the world. Well, I mean, the Super Mario Bros. movie was a hit.

[00:22:36] That actually did really well. Fallout did well. I thought it was dumb, but yeah. Fallout was awesome. Fallout did well. Fallout was amazing. And I think Last of Us, I think, is top of the list of video game adaptations. I think it's one of the best ones we've seen so far. I think Fallout was up there, but I would agree with you. And I just, I got to throw it out there. The original Mortal Kombat is fucking amazing, so I'm just going to throw that out there. I love it. Mortal Kombat! Oh, that soundtrack just, that's a banger.

[00:23:06] Okay, so there are a couple more things here. There was a Variety article. I'm just going to go over a few tidbits. It says, Variety can report exclusively that the ubiquitous character actor Joe Pantoliano will play Eugene, a part two character. Ah, Joey Pants! Joey Pants! Joey Pants! Joey Pants! And this is the character that this other article was alluding to. Oh, okay. Eugene, a part two character who players only hear about in the game when Ellie and her friend

[00:23:35] Dina find his abandoned cannabis den. Similar to season one's beloved Bill and Frank standalone episode, Mazin saw the foregrounding of a Eugene as another chance to expand a story scope beyond the game. So that's pretty cool. Awesome. Yeah. I'm actually meeting Joey Pants next weekend. Like, this is exciting. Oh, no way. Oh, very cool. You can ask him about it. See if he wants to toke up. Uh, and this I'm going to talk about more characters.

[00:24:04] So if you're feeling uncomfortable at the level of spoilery in this, um, it'll be about this level. So, uh, Catherine O'Hara will play Joel's therapist in Jackson. So I heard about that. Yeah. It says there was a scene early in season one where Joel met with a therapist in the QZ in Boston. Pascal says, I think that's a producer. Oh, no, that's Pedro Pascal. I found it with, I found it a beautiful way into the character and the walls that are guarding his traumas and losses.

[00:24:31] The scene was ultimately cut before Pascal got to shoot it quote. And he was like, that's half the reason I'm here. Mazin recalls, but the showrunner always intended to return to the idea for season two quote. Therapy is a fantastic mirror to say, not just what are you really thinking, but what people are refusing to talk about. He says. That should be interesting. Interesting. So, so wait, so did they film that scene with Catherine O'Hara for season one and it was kind of? No, no. Oh, okay. They never got to film it. I think it was, it was in the original script, I believe.

[00:25:00] And that's what Pedro Pascal was like attracted to about it, but then they never got around to it. Yeah. They hired him and then said, that was just a psych out. Sorry. You get no therapy, Pedro. None for you. Uh, and then, I mean, in this article, Craig Mazin says, it feels like we've got one or two more seasons.

[00:25:23] And I'm like, ah, they've, they keep talking about four, but this is the first time he's floated the possibility of just three. So I hope he's just trying to undersell and over deliver. You know, I mean, well, a lot of that has to do whether or not we're even going to get a third video game. And even that's, um, rumored to be off and then rumored to be back on. And that's so, I know it was about that. Yeah.

[00:25:47] I mean, they asked in this article about the possibility of a third game and earlier Druckmann had said, oh yeah, I have an idea for a third game. And he's kind of saying there probably will be another thing, but he would never confirmed it. And here he says, he sighs and says, I was waiting for this question. I guess the only thing I would say is don't bet on there being more last of us. This could be it.

[00:26:09] And then, and then later he goes on to say, he only said that because he, he likes to focus completely on the things he's working on right now, which is the second seat, the seat, this season of the last of us and his new game. I forget the name or something. It's a sci-fi. Yeah. Yeah. Something naughty dog is coming out with, and I'm excited for that. You know, so, so I think what he was saying is he's trying to be sly about it. Just be, I'm only focusing on these things now. Don't ask me about that.

[00:26:36] Even though I understand things are in the works in the background. So who knows? I mean, and not only that, but anytime anybody says like, oh, I have an idea for something, it automatically spreads like wildfire. They're like, oh, a third game is coming. No, all he said was that he has an idea. Well, no, he said, I think there'll be another chapter in the story or something like that. But it was, it wasn't definitive. And also there's the matter of whether these, the, it lines up, right?

[00:27:03] Like if they finish the last of us in season four and then, I mean, the series, you know, HBO, they finish adapting the second game in season four. And then they're like halfway through making the third game and they still have a few more years left. Then it's probably not going to work out to continue the series because they have to like, the cast has to go get new jobs and everything, you know? So long as they don't Game of Thrones, the damn thing. I'll be happy. I was, I was no lie. Just about to say this.

[00:27:33] You know, how long have we been waiting for the next book? I mean, I'm giving up on it. Completely giving up on it. So Game of Thrones and what happened with Game of Thrones, I mean, everybody knows this, but they got to where they were in the books and then the show wasn't as good after that because they were just going off notes. Right. But with the last of us, they've got Neil Druckmann there. So he's the guy making the games. Right. So I think I would trust that more anyway. They decided to go ahead and make.

[00:28:02] I don't think they would do that anyway. I mean, I think so. I think HBO's, HBO's learned their lessons or whatever. As long as Druckmann and Mazin don't come around by the last season and be like, we're going to stick around for the first two episodes, but we've got another job lined up. So we're going to go. Yeah. And they've kind of talked about that. They've said, you know, this story could continue on, but this is the part we want to tell. And I think that's probably because HBO has the rights and they can do more if they want to without them. Yeah. It is interesting.

[00:28:27] It is interesting, though, that I didn't realize until we read this EW article that I didn't realize how far back these rights to this had been acquired by HBO. Because that article states that they were planning. They were talking about season one as they were developing the second game. And the second game came out how many years ago now at this point? Been a while. It's been a while. Five years.

[00:28:51] That means that the rights for the first game had to have been acquired a while back, well before the show ever premiered. I see actually a new article here that says once they get to the end of adapting part two, they're going to have Benioff and Weiss come on as showrunners and finish it out. Oh, no. So that should be good.

[00:29:16] At that point, we're just going to find out that this world of The Last of Us is just another Westworld world that we're living in. That's right. It's all going to be in a snow globe. Yeah, it's all going to be another arena. A couple more things. There's this really great one-hour conversation between Neil Druckmann and Alex Garland on this Creator to Creator podcast. I saw some of it on YouTube. I'll put a link in the show notes. They were both just really impressed with each other and asking each other a lot of questions.

[00:29:46] Alex Garland, of course, any self-respecting zombie movie fan knows he wrote 28 Days Later. I didn't say it was a zombie movie. I'm just saying you're a zombie fan. I'm staying silent. I'm staying silent. And so on the podcast, Garland said to Druckmann, I was so inspired by your work. The Last of Us is better than 28 Days Later. The thing about The Last of Us, I was like, this is so much more sophisticated. It was very nice for me with The Last of Us to sort of feel like someone saying, where's your game?

[00:30:13] And he's probably everyone hearing me knows this, but he wrote a script for 28 Years Later, which the 28 Days Later director Danny Boyle is going to be. I'm so looking forward to that. It's coming out this summer. Oh my God, it looks good. Yeah, yeah. It looks so good. And so Garland said that 28 Days Later was influenced by Resident Evil and Dawn of the Dead. But he said the plot for the new in 28 years had more Last of Us parallels.

[00:30:40] He said, I had this really odd idea for 28 Years Later where the heroes were Chinese special forces and the UK had been quarantined. And China had discovered that the virus had been weaponized. And in order to protect themselves, they had to get to a lab in the UK where the virus was created. And then Danny Boyle read it and he kind of said, yeah, okay, I sort of want to do this, but I know Danny very well. And I could see that he didn't really want to do it at all. And then I was thinking, why doesn't he like it? It's just not that good.

[00:31:09] And then I thought I should be much stranger with this much odder. So I made a completely different story, which in truth has a Last of Us connection. The Last of Us had such an impact on me. And Druckmann said, I find that such a compliment. And also he said, there's a direct line between the fast infected in 28 Days Later and the infected in The Last of Us. So they both kind of took from each other, which is kind of cool. Cool. Yeah. Well, I mean, what's the old adage? Like good art. I think it's even mentioned in the studio.

[00:31:37] Like good artists borrow or whatever. Great artists steal. That's what Steve Jobs said. Is it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was going to say, too, before we move on to like anything else with thoughts, predictions and hopes and everything, too, I just wanted to make a quick point and mention that if you're listening to this and you haven't had a chance to play the game yet, the second one, and you don't have a console, you don't have a PS5 to play it on or PS4, it does arrive on PC on Monday. This coming Monday.

[00:32:07] Oh, that's well timed. Yeah. That's cool. And also, if you are interested in seeing the game, but you just aren't a gamer, you can go on YouTube and watch a playthrough. And watch all the cut scenes. Yeah, watch the cut scenes. I think it takes like five or six hours. At this point, since it's coming out in two weeks, I don't know. I might just say wait for the show. Whatever. Either way is fine, I guess.

[00:32:33] And I know I haven't mentioned it in this episode yet, but I mean, this is my favorite game of all time at this point. So I'm really looking forward to it. But I also want to say to people who haven't seen it yet or haven't played the game, you're in for an amazing story. You are in for an amazing story. It's not easy. No. And it will not make you happy much the way The Last of Us season won.

[00:33:00] I can't say made too many people happy in the, you know, they like, love the show. Didn't make it, wasn't a feel good. This one's worse. This one's worse. Yeah. But it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. It's so good. And true storytelling. You and I did a review when the game came out, just like that weekend, we rushed through it and then we did a podcast. And I'll probably repost that in the feed this week if people want to listen to it. I was listening to it and it was really fun.

[00:33:30] I had, I disagreed with myself on some things, but. I'm going to try. I know we have about two weeks. I'm going to try and do a replay of the second game. You can do it. I don't, I don't know if I want to torture myself with that. But, um, you could set all the, you can change the settings to be a little easier for you. That's true. Yeah. Just kind of plow through it. Just put it like story mode and just go through it. Yeah. I did. I replayed it about a month ago and I really enjoyed it. It was. How long did it take you on the replay? Uh, 27 hours. Oh, okay. Yeah.

[00:34:00] I'm pretty slow. Yeah, I made this mistake of trying to play once on a grounded mode. Oh my God. I couldn't even. I got a good way of the way through that before. I'm just like, you know, I, I enjoy my life too much. Yeah, it is. I don't need to do this to myself. Yeah. So one more news item, British Vogue had a couple articles on Bella Ramsey who plays Ellie one from last year and then a recent profile.

[00:34:26] And, uh, I wanted to quote the one from last year just because I noticed in a lot of interviews, Bella Ramsey had always said they were equally okay with they, them, or she, her pronouns. But in the article last year, they said, I had a lot of anxiety around pronouns. When the last of us first came out, I was like, everyone just call me she because I look like a she to you. So it's fine. But now I'm able to vocalize it more. Being called. They is the most truthful thing for me.

[00:34:55] That's who I am the most. So I just, before I was like, should I use she? Cause that's easier for me. But now that I read this, I'm going to try real hard to use they, them, cause I want to respect, you know, good on you. In the recent profile, Bella said they got diagnosed with autism when they were filming season one of the last of us. I did hear about this. Yeah. The article says while shooting in Canada, a crew member with an autistic daughter assumed

[00:35:24] that Ramsey had it to setting them off on a journey that ended in a formal psychiatric assessment and diagnosis, it confirmed something that Ramsey had always wondered about as a child. They'd routinely fell out of place in school, a self-described weirdo and loner more comfortable around adults than their unpredictable adolescent peers. There were other hints to sensory issues common to people on the autism spectrum and their painful hyper awareness of other people's micro expressions and body language.

[00:35:52] They aren't a fan of the heavy waterproofs and thermals that come with filming in the cold Canadian wilderness quote too much stuff on my body. They explained fidgeting as if remembering it now in the, in person their autism. They pointed out actually improves their craft quote. I've always been watching and learning from people having to learn more manually how to socialize and interact with people around me has helped me with acting and quote being on set to offers a routine quote.

[00:36:17] I have a call time and I'm told what to wear, how to stand, where to stand and what to eat. They described the diagnosis as freeing quote enables me to walk through the world with more grace towards myself about not being able to do the easy everyday tasks that everyone else seems to be able to do. And then talking about labels, Bella Ramsey said the label of being autistic has been so helpful to me because that's helped me to understand myself, but gender and sexuality

[00:36:44] wise labels do not feel comfy for me in any capacity because I feel like I'm putting myself into a box. I feel trapped at a letters live show last year where actors stage readings of literary correspondence. They read a letter to themselves quote. You don't have to know you can just be and be proud. Nice. Okay. Let's move on to thoughts, predictions, and hopes for season two.

[00:37:09] I, like I said, I replayed the part two recently and I, uh, it was my third time playing through it. I made a few notes as I went through, um, when, when's the last time you guys played it? It's been a while for me. It's been probably, we were still in the pandemic when I played it, which probably wasn't the right time to play that game. Um, but we, yeah, I think we were still towards the tail end of the pandemic. So it's been maybe three years since I've played it.

[00:37:39] I think I did my fifth play through about six months ago. Oh my God. I've only played through it once. Let me say, we're, we're going to talk about what happens in the game and it's, there's nothing big spoilers. And I said this up front, but if you don't want spoilers, talk to you next week. Bye bye. Run away right now. Thank you for listening. Love you. Bye. Okay. That was your warning.

[00:38:08] Everyone who's not paying attention and just letting this run in the background, turn it off. Abby, Abby, no. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. So playing it again, uh, yeah, it really, there's something in this game so different than what was in the first game. And Neil Druckmann has said the first game is about love and this game is about hate.

[00:38:36] And, and it really is because I think it's a story. It's a, it could be a warning about human capacity to dehumanize one another and to let our fear of other blind us to the things that can connect us and the violence and cycles of violence that that leads to. And I just love how the game is structured. So it makes you hate Abby, right? She bludgeons Joel to death with a fucking golf club. And you're like, what? Fuck you, bitch.

[00:39:05] You forgot, huh? Cause it's been a while since you played it. No, I remember. I'm just kidding. Uh, but, uh, but then, and then you have to play her. And then you're like, as you're playing her, you're like, what am I playing this asshole for? Or at least that's how I was. And then, and then, and I guess, you know, get through this like 30 or five minute part of the game and get back to Ellie. And then you realize, oh, I got to play her for half the game. And then you start liking her. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:31] It's, it's, it's, this game is so just masterful in the way that it just subverts every single one of your expectations. It messes you up, it plays with your brain and your emotions in a way that I'm just like, I am here for it. Thank you. It was because the same, I want to hear that previous episodes. I'm sure my opinions even change because I know over the five playthroughs, um, my opinions have changed on like so many of the characters, not even just the main two, but all of them

[00:40:00] and their motivations and why you like them and why you don't like them. Like, Hey, Manny, Manny's fun, man. I like Manny. Um, give me vicious too. And at the same time, that's the dude that spat on Joel, you know, I was like, fuck you, man. Um, but he's great. You know, Abby, you hate her. Like you said, in the end, I, I love Abby. I, I'm like, I'm a huge Abby fan. I mean, bottom line, I really, I really am. And Ellie playing the Ellie parts now, I find them difficult because it is so hateful. It's so angry.

[00:40:28] And I don't necessarily like being in that mindset, you know, in the Abby parts, you get to be in a growth mindset where, Oh my God, it sounds so corporate, but I don't mean that. They're really fun too. When I played the, this time I, I, I felt like because Ellie's more the beginning. So a lot of times in games and this one included, it feels kind of tutorial, like a lot of it. And then once you get to Abby, they know, you know how to play.

[00:40:55] And then you get some really interesting gameplay moments, like the one high above the city where you're, she's afraid of heights and you know, yeah, just, there's a whole bunch of different cool, really cool stuff with Abby's gameplay. I mean, that's not really related to what you're talking about, but it made me think of it too. Yeah. I don't know what it is. I mean, the gameplay part of her, sorry, Ben, last thing about that is that also is in what I was alluding to earlier.

[00:41:22] It's the, the mechanic of having that bigger, bulkier person to play with, like you had with Joel. So it gives you the opportunity to have a Joel experience again, uh, in the form of Abby. Uh, and now we can dodge, which is even better. So yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, even in comparison, when you talk about the comparison of Abby and Ellie and how you feel differently going back and playing Abby later on towards the second half of the game, I think a comparison can be also made to similar to maybe Rick and Negan from

[00:41:50] the walking dead and that you, I mean, it's obviously Negan is a more hateful character than Abby is, but there are ways that by the end of that series, you can commiserate with Negan a little bit more when you understand more of where he comes from. And, you know, we're getting a little bit more of that in dead city as well, but I think it's the same thing with Abby and Ellie is that once you realize the background that Abby has, where she comes from and why she is who she is, you tend to commiserate with her a little bit more.

[00:42:19] And that's why she can become a likable character, even though, as you said, she bludgeoned the shit out of Joel and killed him. Yeah. Might as well have given her a baseball bat with barbed wire around it. Come to think of it. Yeah. Um, I, yeah, I mean, I, I actually do kind of agree with you about Negan here. I think, um, honestly, this Negan series is kind of retconning him a little bit.

[00:42:47] Cause I don't believe that he didn't really mean it or he was playing a role. But where I do agree with you is that he's, uh, he's become a more caring person and he's done some good deeds that he probably wouldn't have done before. So I do think he has changed, you know, and, and there are people that still despise Negan. And I mean, I don't love him honestly, but I, I do there. I thought he was a great character. Yeah.

[00:43:17] So when do we think in the show, we are going to get some of the events of the game? How do you think they're going to structure this? Yeah. I mean, we're going to get a nice job there. I mean, but is the Joel therapy thing going to be in flashbacks? Is it going to be, do we get like multiple episodes with them or is it going to be quick? Yeah. Like, is it going to be like Tony Soprano where he just goes in every episode?

[00:43:42] Um, I think, yeah, it's interesting to think about the structure because in the game you play for many, many hours as Ellie, and then you play for many hours as Abby. And then it, uh, I feel like it starts to go back and forth a little bit more, but they can't do that with the show because that would be a whole season of Ellie. And then we wouldn't get Abby until season three. I wonder if that's what we're going to do. I mean, so the only cast thing we've necessarily seen here, right? Well, no, we've seen, we do have Isaac. So they're going to, the rest of the crew was there.

[00:44:12] They're not going to do it that way. They're going to go back and forth more. It feels like, and I've also read that this is another little bit of a spoiler for the show, uh, that they're going to show Abby's backstory sooner because they want us that in the game, they can get you to empathize with her by having you play her just through whatever she's doing, but they can't really do that in the show. So they're going to try to get the audience to empathize with her more by showing her backstory a little bit sooner. So get the, the Jerry stuff and who, who he, why she's doing what she's doing.

[00:44:42] Well, and I think that's actually, I think for the series, that's actually kind of smart too, because if we're talking about where the placement of this, this particular event with Abby killing Joel is going to play, I think it's really smart to introduce Abby and show her backstory early on and then kind of go back and forth between POV as you do in the game because it makes you connect with Abby so that when that moment actually does happen, it becomes, it becomes a true, okay, what the fuck moment as a viewer, which is

[00:45:12] why I think if we're going to, I don't know if we're going to get that moment in season two. I think they're going to try and push it. See, yeah, no, that's, you're making me think about something different because that would be a lot different where they try to get you to empathize with Abby before she does that and maybe they will do that, but I thought it was a neat trick to show because that's the thing, the lesson of the, of the game, I think is about showing that there are worthy,

[00:45:39] relatable human beings on both sides of any conflict. And the way into that, because we all have people that we're just like, I hate that person, you know, or some of us have whole groups. I try not to do that, but some of us do, right? Oh, they're all assholes. And then if you, then in the game, you, you get, it makes you feel that way about Abby. And then you realize, oh, if I just spend a little time with this person, I hate same

[00:46:08] thing with the Sarah fights and the WLF, the wolves that's on a bigger scale, but it's the same idea of these two groups who are at war. And then we get to spend time with people from both groups and realize, you know what? This is a tragedy because they're all just human beings. And if they could get over their differences and, and spend time around each other, then they would realize that they're good. So I kind of hope the show does it that way to where we see Abby do the act first before we get to know her.

[00:46:37] I hope so too. I think we should go in a little, I would like going in blind on that one. Uh, not blind, but not knowing her perspective quite yet. I think. But I could see them doing it the other way. I could do it either way. I mean, but like you said, at the outset of this, Jason, this is a very much, uh, uh, the game and that the storytelling is about perspective and how you, you know, whose side are you getting the story? Because I can't, I am, I'm sitting here smiling as you were talking about all of this

[00:47:06] because I'm thinking about the audience reaction, especially people who have not played the game and the utter shit show that's going to happen when Pedro Pascal is, is killed on screen. And, um, yeah, I'm a little worried about it. How many times are going to hear people say, I'm not watching the show anymore. It's too much. It's too bad. I'm, I'm not, I am excited for it just cause it's like, well, let's, I know it's going to happen. What's it going to do? You know, it's interesting. I mean, I could, I could see it going either way.

[00:47:35] I think one of the things that might play a difference in it and how they're going to approach it is this five year time jump. Or are they going to be showing us flashbacks of things that happened over the course of that five years? Yeah. Because then if so, it's asking a lot of a viewer to juggle between flashbacks, ABP, POV and LEPOV. Like it's asking a lot to go to three different perspectives. Um, or is it simply just going to be a time jump and they're not going to worry about the

[00:48:04] five years that happened in between? Well, I know I'm pretty sure there's one episode. I heard something about it that there'll be most of the episode is a flashback and I'm fairly certain it's going to be the dinosaur. Right. And the, the little space capsule. I think that is going to be a, almost a full episode. And I feel like it'll be six or something. If you're the kind of person who is listening to this, even though you haven't played the game cause you don't care about spoilers, what Eric's talking about is in the last of us

[00:48:32] part two, we get a flashback of Joel and Ellie when Ellie's younger and he, uh, well, he doesn't teach her how he takes her on a special 16th birthday. It's so nice. So great. It's, I, it's, yeah, I equate that scene to, and that actually was on my list of things I'm hopeful to see in this, in this season is because I equate that scene to the giraffe scene in the first game. Like an extended version of it. That's really good.

[00:48:58] I mean, yeah, like I'm more, I'm a little bit worried about the audience reaction to, uh, Joel dying. And it's been, I've been thinking of it this whole time. Like, you know, I'm the walking dead Negan killed Glenn and then it lost a shitload of viewers. And now that here's a show planning to do something similar. Well, I don't want them not to do it. Cause it wouldn't be, that's, you gotta have that. Absolutely.

[00:49:26] And it's, it's different than the walking dead though. I mean, that was. And it's, it's such a massive event for this story that I don't know if it would play as well in the middle of the season. I feel like if they're going to do it in season two, it's going to be the end of the season and or beginning. Okay. You think they would do it that early? Well, I thought I remembered Pedro Pascal. Like it was reported that he finished shooting pretty early into the whole thing.

[00:49:56] Okay. Yeah. I remember that happening. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I mean, I wouldn't mind like episode one ending with the, you know, they're all out on patrol and all that. And then the stone snow storm kicks in. Yeah. And then the next episode is where shit goes down. I mean, it's only seven episodes. We're not getting much. And it also, and it also doesn't mean that we can't have flashback scenes. We'll have tons of flashbacks. Yeah. That's the way we got it in the game too. We got all sorts of flashbacks. That's true.

[00:50:22] And speaking of like audience reaction, not just to that, but I think this game is like you were kind of alluding to before Eric, it's, it's uncomfortable. It's harder. And, uh, and I hope they do the same thing with the show. And, and I think for a lot of people, black and white is more comforting, good guys and bad guys is comforting nuance. And even letting go of hate can be uncomfortable at first. It's vulnerable. Right.

[00:50:49] And, and so I think this is a good, hopefully a good exercise of people to see that, oh, maybe I should let go of preconceived notions and hate in other areas of life. And, and I, I think about, um, the conflict between the Sarah fights and the WLF as being kind of like, um, other conflicts in the world.

[00:51:15] I, I, I think about the Israel Palestine situation. I don't think it can be directly mapped onto it, but I think other that conflict and other conflicts like it inspired the story. And like in both the Israel Palestine conflict and the war between the wolves and the Sarah fights, they're about territorial disputes, clashing ideologies, cycles of retaliation and demonization of the other. Right.

[00:51:42] And, and I think the optimistic lesson is look, if we just knew each other, then we would realize that we actually are more like them than not. But the pessimistic cynical view of it is yeah, but everybody killed each other in the game pretty much, except for just the, a few people who happened to like Abby and Lev, you know? Hey, look, it's, but in 2025, we live in a world where Canadians are sending their enemies. So who the hell knows what's going on? Yeah.

[00:52:11] But either way, it's gonna, it's going to draw illusions to the real world. Oh yeah. Because it's all about conflict, you know, and polarization and demonization and dehumanization and all that. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing too. Like we talk about how much Abby becomes a likable character by the end of that series and by the end of the game and how much we like her. But the one thing we can't forget is that it doesn't make what she does any less wrong. No, no.

[00:52:38] And that's, and that, and that's, that's the whole point of the last of us as a whole is what Joel does. Everything. I mean, we play these games and we're like, oh, we love this guy. And then you're like, wait a minute, he's a psychotic murderer killing everything in his path. You know, it's like, wow. And we're, but so we think about that and it messes with your emotions and messes with your like, oh my God, I love somebody who's so terrible.

[00:53:04] And yeah, what they do, what they all do is just so abysmal. And what Ellie does, uh, internally to let's say her family structure and all that is abysmal. And so it's, it's that, like you just said, that cycle, that cycle, it just keeps on going and just festering and building and building. And it's such a good look at that. I just, it's, I don't know. I, I, for one hope that when they say it's going to be like a, a faithful adaptation, but they're going to be flexible.

[00:53:32] Um, it's Joel's going to kill Isaac instead. And it's going to be, yeah, he's going to get superpowers. We'll go on. Yeah. I was going to, Joel's going to hulk out and he's going to, he's going to survive. Yeah. Abby and Owen go off in a boat. There was a user's comment on a last of us message board that said the game definitely was trying to show the terrible things overall good people will do if they let hate and revenge consume them. And I thought that was pretty accurate.

[00:54:02] That's about it. Yeah. But I, you know, everything like I, I said about if you get to understand, get to know the person on the other side of the conflict and realize that you're the same and that the violence is unnecessary. We should be collaborating with each other and all that, all that said, I, and I did get to like, and understand Abby, but I, I still am team Ellie. Oh, 100. Yeah. I am too.

[00:54:29] I mean, I'm not saying everyone should be, but the only reason why I'm well, and I'm not like fully 100% behind everything Ellie did. No, but what, all I'm saying is Abby's dad was about to kill Ellie without anyone's consent. And Joel did what he did to save his pretty much daughter. And if they had just asked Ellie, she would have said yes, you know, but, um, they didn't.

[00:54:54] And so then for Abby to want to kill Joel after Joel killed her dad, I can, I can even understand that kind of, but then to go in there and say, um, you know, you don't this, what did she say? Uh, you don't get to rush this, you stupid old man. And just be so cruel about it and bludgeon him to death with the golf club. And, and, you know, Joel isn't like that with her dad and do it right in front of Ellie.

[00:55:23] It's like, fuck man, that's fucked up. You know, I, and, and this whole thing, I go, I lean on, uh, my dudism and, and think about the dude. And I say, you know, it's not that you're wrong, but you're an asshole. And that kind of, I think applies to both of them. Right. It's like, no, both of you, neither one of you is wrong, but you're both assholes. You know, Ellie is and Abby is, and it's like, um, they are feeding it.

[00:55:50] So it's, so yeah, even the, the team, this team that I'm, I think they're all assholes quite frankly. And, but it's, it's, but they're ours. Yeah. You know, it's just like this cycle of violence where, you know, revenge for something someone else did and it keeps going, but that the initial act was not part of any revenge. It was just one guy deciding to kill this young girl. Yes. It was to try to come up with a cure, but still. It was, it was a protective act rather than a form of one-upsmanship, which is

[00:56:20] what Abby's does because, you know, Abby's there with everybody there. They very easily outnumber Joel and Ellie at that point. So for them to intentionally kill Joel as Abby does, like that's more revenge and one-upsmanship than anything else. Yeah. I don't think they would argue that. No. I think they knew exactly what they're there for. But I'm, but I'm also with you on that, Jason, that if, if, if forced to choose a side, yeah, I would, I would side with Ellie. But then as you're playing Ellie in the game, it's like, fuck man, especially when she

[00:56:49] left Dina out on the farm to go back and still. Those are the things. Yeah. It's like, oh man, just let it go at this point. And that was Tommy being a jerk. Being all terrible to Ellie. It's like you already killed a bunch of her friends. And, but then we're going to get to see the Tommy thing too. That turned out actually to save Abby's life though, that she went and did that, that Ellie did that. Yeah. That absolutely. Right. That's, that's kind of the weird twist of it. Right.

[00:57:16] But also in the notes, I just realized they mentioned that Tommy and Maria have a child. So that's going to be different. Oh yeah. Than the game. I can't remember if they do. And I guess they don't in the game. I can't remember. Can't remember either. I don't believe they do in the game. No. So that'll be different that Tommy will have a little more that he's walking away from than he did in the game. And in the, in the game, Maria is just pissed that he's taking off, you know? Um, in this case, it's going to be, he's going to be deciding to leave behind a child to go do that.

[00:57:45] Adds, adds a little bit more to that, to that decision. Yeah. One other thing that I had forgotten about in the game that just playing through it recently reminded me of is that there's this leader of the Seraphites who I feel pretty comfortable calling them a cult. Um, and she, and you never meet her, but there's this impression that she left their shrines.

[00:58:09] There's paintings glorifying her people quoting her and this letter from a WLF soldier after they had captured her saying he'd talked to her and there was something about her that drew him in. That's so interesting. It's like, Oh, I'd like, I hope we get that. I do. But there was something about in the game, not meeting her where, even though I felt like I wanted to, I felt like it was kind of a good feeling because she just felt more mystical when she was in the background and we didn't get to see her. But that said in the show, I kind of hope we do get to meet her.

[00:58:39] You know, I'm like, is that Catherine O'Hara? But it's not. I really need to go back and replay the game before this theory starts because I don't remember any of that. You know who, who, who, who the Seraphite leader reminds me of another cross shows mentioning another show, but Lottie from a yellow jackets. Absolutely. She had that same vibe, right? As the, and that's the whole, that's why the Seraphites are the way they are because this woman led her neighborhood into doing better immediately after the apocalypse than anybody else.

[00:59:06] And so they started following her and she had all these ideas about getting rid of technology and some of it was interesting, but a lot of it, well, I don't know if it came from her or her teachings got corrupted, but they ended up being really biased against like this trans person. They were going to kill him just for being trans and all this stuff. So that's another thing is we don't have any, from what I understand, we don't have any casting news about any of the Seraphites. So we had no Lev, no Yara.

[00:59:36] So maybe that'll probably be season three, right? As part, cause that is a progression on Ellie's side or Abby's side. So yes, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I'm glad you said that cause I was all getting excited about it, but I should not expect it. No, I don't think we're, I don't think we're going to, I mean, we might see Seraphites, but I'm not sure we're going to see, you know, 11 Yara yet, but yeah, that'll be, I mean, oh, but that's a, again, that's one of my favorite parts of the game though is when Abby meets them, right? Yeah.

[01:00:06] Strung up and hanging there. Oh yeah. Killed. That'll be intense. That will be intense. Bowels hanging out. Oh yeah. Jeez. I know we're not going to get all of them in this second season because some of them don't play in until later on, but there are a couple of locations I'm really looking forward to seeing in the show. The island. Yeah. With the, like the aquarium and all that. The aquarium is going to be a fun place. The movie theater is going to be another fun set when they explore that one a little bit.

[01:00:35] And we already talked about the museum, which will probably play it back in a flashback. But yeah, those are a couple of locations. I'm, I really want to see like come to life in this series. My daughter's been up to Seattle now a couple of times to go visit a friend and she was actually just there for Emerald city comic-con, uh, dressing. She dressed as Gail from Baldur's gate three. And I actually made her costume, which is pretty rad. I learned how to sew in order to use a sewing machine, but, uh, no, she visited the aquarium and a few of the other sites from the last of us.

[01:01:03] And even on this last trip, she just took, uh, she walked into one neighborhood. I forget which one it was. And, and she was like, Oh my God, I know this area because of the game. She was like in the middle of standing in the game. And she took a picture. So it's just modeled after a real place. Seattle. Yeah, absolutely. So, and it's funny. She got me a, she got me a shirt from the aquarium and I love it. Cool. Uh, there's also a C a sequence where Abby and Lev have to make their way through this, I think war torn hotel. And like a lot of the floors are blown out and stuff.

[01:01:33] And that's a really great sequence. So I hope they have an episode because I think I read in one article there, they're kind of light on infected this season too. But when they do, they pack a real punch. So I'd like to see. I thought I heard there were going to be more. Really? Okay. Well, maybe I'm wrong about that. I don't know. I heard it's going to be right in the middle, like somewhere between more or less or more. Isn't one of the first. Not like Goldilocks.

[01:01:58] I think one of the first times that we meet Abby also, isn't that at a zoo or is it a park? Cause she's trying to sneak it through. It's a zoo. She's helping the zebra cause her dad's a vet. Yeah. They're at the zoo. Yeah. And the zebra is giving birth and it's caught up in a barbed wire thing. Yeah. Anything else? Or zebra for zebra.

[01:02:26] I will say that I know a lot of people are kind of worried. Not us. I don't think we've, we've made it. We've made the opinion that we are. But like when you talk about how I jokingly said the whole faithful, but flexible adaptation, I, that doesn't worry me one bit if they divert away from the game. And the reason why is because I'll, I'll just say Bill and Frank, that was such a dev, uh, deviation from the game and their characters in the game.

[01:02:55] But it turned out to be one of, if not my favorite episode of the entire first season. And so much of that, it won off from in his first Emmy. Dude, that's one of the best episodes of television. Yeah. Period. Of television. Um, if that is their deviation, their flexible, but faithful adaptation, I'm fine with it. They can do whatever they want and deviate wherever they want to go. And I'm completely behind them.

[01:03:22] I truly believe with this game, the deviations are going to be more in the form of cutting even than adding only because there's so much material to work with. Yeah. So, you know, this is a, it's a rich game to, to, for things that you can mine, but you know, they're going to tweak with things and, you know, it'll be both. I'm sure they'll cut some things, but they'll flesh out some things too. I hope we get our, the music, the, the take on me scene in the music store. You know, there's going to be a lot of those little moments that I'm really hoping for.

[01:03:51] I mean, I'm, I'm guessing that Dina is not going to be Jewish in this and that she's Hispanic. So we might not get the synagogue scene, which I thought was a great scene in the game. Um, but to know we're getting Eugene and to get that fleshed out, that's going to be a lot of fun. Um, we're going to get to use, you know, see him using his, uh, you know, uh, bomb gas mask. That I do remember that I do remember. Um, so, you know, I'm, I'm so smart fan.

[01:04:21] And that's what, that's what, uh, absolutely. That's what Ellie said or Dina. He's so smart. He absolutely is. I can't. And the fact is Joey pants. That's just, that delights me. It really, it really does. So I think we're going to get more of those little backstory things and flashbacks that I think will help. Um, you know, a game, we get to spend 15 hours with somebody and you spend so much time, you get to learn so much. You just don't get to do in a TV show, right?

[01:04:48] So having those moments where we do get the characters fleshed out, we may not be playing them and getting us connected to them, but we're going to get more of their backstory. And I think that will help, um, to make us hate everybody that much more, because really that's the whole point of this whole series. Right? Yeah. Hate. More hate. Um, it's terrible. When I, yeah, like when I finished the game the first time I just wanted to, and I did just start it right back up and play it again.

[01:05:15] So it wasn't like, I don't want to spend any more time with these despicable people. I didn't feel that way. I wanted to do it again. Oh no. It was, what did I miss? Yeah. Yeah. I know I missed so many things. Cause again, it's so big and there's so much, and I'm kind of surprised about myself about, uh, of myself for that too, because I'm the same way. Like the first game I've played five or six times at this point, but I've only played two once. Yeah. You should play again. And I like, I, I, I'm definitely jumping back into it.

[01:05:42] Um, probably next week to get a replay in before this stuff starts back up. I'm going to go ahead and say, I think it means you have a healthy, um, mental state that you don't feel the need to go in and, and be a masochist and, and destroy your mood. And, you know, your outlook on the world. No, I think, I think it's probably better off not playing this game. I've, I've only played part two once. I've never watched a handmaid's tale. Like it's yeah. My mental, I've not watched the handmaid's tale. No, I have not watched it.

[01:06:10] I read the book way back when I saw the original movie. I, I, I can't wait for the game. That's going to be so good. The handmaid's tale game. Oh my God. All right. That is our show. Episode six 31. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody hope you enjoyed that. And you're not mad at us for spoiling everything.

[01:06:40] Next episode. Hey, you warned them. You gave them plenty of heads up. I sure did. It's your own fault. Uh, next episode will be Lucy and I doing the last of us season one catch up. I might, as I said, throw that last of us part two game review that Eric and I did in the feed too at some point here. Do it now. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. Dot com.

[01:07:05] And while you're there, uh, please just check out all of the other podcasts that, uh, podcastica has to offer. We're actually getting ready to start podcasting on the handmaid's tale again. And, uh, I'm just glad that this is a minor spoiler for you guys who haven't seen it, but it, it started off pretty bleak and it's still bleak, but people are rebelling. So I'm glad we're in that phase of it.

[01:07:31] And, uh, I think the podcast is going to take on a kind of a support group vibe this season. If you know what I'm saying. Gotcha. Uh, I'm also really into yellow jackets this season and we're getting close to the end of that. And, uh, Jim and Kirk are covering daredevil born again. If you're watching that on Disney plus, so a bunch of cool stuff going on. I'm, uh, I'm going to be reaching out to people soon to set up guests for dead city coverage. Sweet. So Ben's going to be busy.

[01:08:00] So what we're dead city comes out like halfway into last of us. And both of those are going to be on this feed. So you're going to be hearing a lot of Ben. They're going to run concurrent for four weeks. Yeah. So that'll be fun. Uh, this episode is made possible by Patreon supporters like Ashley Wolf. She's a wolf, uh, who pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. So thank you to Ashley next week, Julie Sarah fight. No, I'm just kidding. One of the best.

[01:08:27] Uh, so anyway, uh, we did a, um, never have I ever, I still have to put that out, but that was one of the Patreon things we did recently played. Never have I ever super fun. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit Susan justice.