633: "Future Days" (The Last of Us S2E1)

It’s sad to see Ellie and Joel not getting along, but it’s great to be back in Jackson. We’re pretty thrilled with this first episode back. Join Erik and Jason to talk it out! Click click click. 


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[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcast to go!

[00:00:11] Every guy in this room is staring at you right now. No reason to be. I'm not a threat.

[00:01:26] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Eric. Eric! And this is The Cast of Us, episode 633. And this episode we're covering The Last of Us, season 2, episode 1, Future Days. Woo! I can't believe it's here. I don't know. It was like this weird sort of thing going into it yesterday. We were just like, wow. It's actually happening.

[00:01:51] Tonight's The Last of Us season 2. And it just kind of a, I don't know, I don't want to get too into it, but I'll just say watching it was just, I must have had a grin the entire time on my face from ear to ear, right? It was just going back into this world. And did you watch any of season 1 in the lead up? I just watched a couple of episodes, the first two, and then I watched some YouTube recaps.

[00:02:18] Yeah, because the last few days HBO's just been playing it all in a row. So I've kind of had it on in the background for a couple of days and popping in for a few scenes. I'm like, ooh, I remember this. Oh, I forgot about this. Oh, it got me back into the world. So I'm really happy to be back into it. And I, you and I already talked about this, but I played the game, maybe it's been about a month ago now, just replayed for people who don't know.

[00:02:45] I think most people know this, but the first season was based on the first game. And then season two is the start of the second game. And they say it's going to take a few seasons to cover the second game because it's so much bigger. But anyway, just to get back in the mood, I played the second game and I loved it just as much as I did back then when it first came out. So it's great to have the show back. Season one finished up almost exactly two years ago, two years ago last month, which is too long. And I really, really hope it doesn't take two years for the next season.

[00:03:15] I wouldn't be surprised if it does, though, but we'll see. The new norm, I guess. Right. I mean, this is just kind of what we're having to deal with with almost every show. It's hard to tell for sure, because there was also the writer's strike and that might have delayed it a little bit more. So just for so people know what's going on, we're podcasting on The Last of Us. This season is going to be me and Eric here. Plus Ben and Lucy will be in the rotation.

[00:03:42] And the plan is to do separate feedback episodes. So in a couple of days, we're going to record an episode with any feedback that comes in by that time. Plus news. So we're saving the news for that episode to maybe some interview bits or whatever else comes out. But then as long as we get enough feedback from you guys, we'll just keep doing it that way. If if we don't get enough, then we'll just incorporate it into the main episodes.

[00:04:07] And that's fine, too. But if you want to send in feedback, you can find all our feedback information at podcast.com or search for our Facebook group. Podcast group. We put posts up there every week for the episodes and then we read the comments on the podcast. If you don't know us, by the way, we're podcast.com. We've been podcasting about great TV for pretty close to 15 years now. We started still can't get over that every time you say it. It's a long time. We started with The Walking Dead back in 2010.

[00:04:37] And and Lucy and I have recently been going through a full rewatch of that show on this very feed. But podcast covers a bunch of other shows. White Lotus, Yellow Jackets, Handmaid's Tale, Wheel of Time, House of the Dragon, all kinds of stuff and or coming up. So if you want to check out any of our other stuff, that's also all at podcast.com. And welcome to anybody who's just, you know, discovering us for the first time or coming over from. I know we got a bunch of White Lotus people.

[00:05:05] Maybe some of those guys are coming over. Welcome to you guys. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one more thing. So during the main part of the podcast, we'll be focused on the show and not the game. But we might mention a few little things from the game, you know, that are similar, different, but not a lot and definitely no plot spoilers. And then we'll have a game talk segment where we focus on the games. But this time, at least, honestly, I think we'll avoid any big spoilers.

[00:05:33] I don't think it'll be a problem. I think this episode gave us so much material that there's nothing we need to spoil at all because this is set. I think it might be interesting for people to listen to the game talk segment because we were not going to be talking about what's coming up later in the games, just how this was similar to the game. And so it won't really be spoilery. I don't think so. That's it. It's the last of us. Season two, episode one. Future days. Would you like to read the plot summary?

[00:06:01] Oh, certainly I can do that. Five years after the first season, Joel and Ellie reside in Jackson, Wyoming, but the relationship has grown tense. In therapy, Joel's psychotherapist, Gail, reveals her anger over Joel killing her husband, Eugene. Joel expresses sorrow over his fractured bond with Ellie, revealing he's saved her life, but withholding the truth about slaying the fireflies, idealists who believed her death could yield a cure.

[00:06:29] On patrol, Ellie and Dina discover an infected nest in a supermarket where Ellie confronts and kills a new stealthy infected variant. At a town party, Ellie and Dina share a kiss, provoking a homophobic slur from bar owner Seth. Joel fiercely defends Ellie, but she, simmering with resentment and suspicion about his past actions, snaps that she doesn't need him and he leaves.

[00:06:58] Meanwhile, infected tendrils creep into Jackson through a broken pipe as Abby and her vengeful allies who seek Joel's death for the hospital massacre, watch the town from a distance. You know what's interesting? Like this whole plot, it's kind of depressing to think about, you know, Joel and Ellie not being friends anymore and how hard it is for both of them. But the show was fun. I thought it had its charms, you know?

[00:07:26] Oh my God. It had so many charming moments. It was ridiculous. I mean, I thought it was extremely charming. I mean, we'll go to that. So it was, it felt like coming into this, it felt unlike season one. Uh, I felt it, it felt a little more worn in a little more of a used world. Like, okay, we know this. We're familiar with this. Now you don't have to spend as much time building this specific world because we've already been to Jackson. We've been here.

[00:07:50] We get to see that it's grown and we get to be introduced to the new characters. And it felt at least in Jackson. I mean, all of it really, but it all felt organic. It all felt fine. Nothing felt necessarily shoehorned in.

[00:08:05] Uh, these felt like people who'd actually lived together for a while, who'd know each other. Ellie seems on one hand, uh, more relaxed in who she is. And at the same time still, you know, the very angry, bitter young girl that we knew from season one, you know? Yeah. She seems more, more like, uh, um, like a typical teen in some ways. Like she knows her environment, but she's, uh, you know, having a lot of feelings about everything.

[00:08:34] Uh, my youngest is currently 19. So, uh, I, I feel a certain, uh, uh, uh, simpatico thing going on with Joel. I thought you might. Yeah. Uh, not, not necessarily quite to the degree. Yeah. Not quite to the degree, but definitely felt a certain simpatico with Joel and even Joel, uh, his character seeing him, uh, five years after all these events, having settled down, uh, being a part of the community with his giant, uh,

[00:09:03] uh, constructo dial that he was doing, you know, I just, it felt very homey coming back to it. And, and, uh, there were certain threads that were laid out in season one that were so wonderfully brought back.

[00:09:21] And I'll, I'll say even threads like tendrils in some way. I had kind of forgotten that whole notion that, uh, the, the mycelium, the mycelium, but not just the, but how they, they feel the whole thing out. So if you disturb one thing, the whole colony hears about her knows about it, right? I kind of forgot that come running. Yeah. So that end with realizing, oh, they're expanding, uh, they're expanding Jackson to get the new home.

[00:09:50] So they're going through the, the old pipes that are just have all the roots in there. Now they're getting disturbed. So now the, the, the, the, the horde is going to be like, oh, now we know where there's fresh people. It just got me. So that was like a thread from last season. Yeah. I wasn't sure exactly where they were going with that, but now that you just said it out loud, I think that's exactly it. And, and shimmer, we met as a foal in, in the first season. Ellie's horse. Ellie's horse. She took a liking to it right away. Right? Absolutely. She really did.

[00:10:20] And, and so this, this, uh, entire first episode, it had me kind of like, um, the Leonardo DiCaprio, uh, meme where he's pointing at the TV. That's that the Dalton, you know, uh, Rick Dalton. That was me, this whole episode with all these scenes in it that this whole episode, uh, I mentioned this to you earlier. I felt it was filled with, uh, for somebody who's a game watcher filled with Easter eggs and blind spots because there was so much in this that didn't have anything to do with the game.

[00:10:50] Yeah. And again, it felt organic. It felt good. I was like, Oh wow. They're doing a great job. It's great to have both because I mean, there's so many scenes. I think, I don't know if it's more, but it feels like even more to me where it's like, Oh my God, this is the game. They just pull it right out of the freaking game. And, and that's so much fun for someone like people like you and me who just love those games, um, to see.

[00:11:18] And then, like you just said, they put in fresh stuff that we're like, Oh, that's new. Where is that? Where are they going with that? You know? Yeah. So to have both is great. Very cool. And, and these new cast members, what are your thoughts on, on, on. Love them all. And Jesse. Every single one of them. Yeah. Dina, Isabella Merced just killed it, knocked it out of the park. I loved, uh, Catherine O'Hara as the therapist. Wasn't she great? So intense and awesome.

[00:11:44] Um, you know, we didn't really get much of Abby and her crew, but from what I saw, I thought they were great. All, all of them. Um, but no, I, I loved it. Yeah. I was really, I thought it was maybe a bit slow, but that's okay. And then second watch through, I, I didn't have those feelings at all. I was pretty well transfixed. I meant in the beginning, slow in the beginning, but you know, it, it was, uh, it was a great episode. I liked it. I think better than the pilot of the series. Uh, agreed.

[00:12:14] Actually, I do agree. And I, and I felt again, I just felt it. We didn't have to spend as much time with that initial world building. We got to just sort of jump into the world where, well, we missed let's, let's face it. We kind of missed it. And it was like, Oh, I remember this. I remember these characters and there's, they, they felt like they grew in five years, like all of them that we knew. And it just, I don't know, felt nice. Yeah. And it's good.

[00:12:40] Like you're saying organic that the storylines we're seeing are coming right from what we saw last season. Yeah. There, I didn't feel a single cousin, Oliver and the whole thing. I think it was just, I don't know. I loved it. And Isabella Merced as Dina, um, I, I sent you the one clip and I'll, I'll mention this one clip of, uh, the game that was 100% identical to the show. And that was the party scene. Yeah.

[00:13:09] The lights, the, the, even like the hue, the color and the camera angles. Yeah. Uh, I don't think it was exactly the same dialogue, but a lot of it was the same. Almost, almost exact. A couple of changes, but not much. The band, uh, that was playing was in fact the exact same band. Uh, that song didn't exist until I think 2006 or 2007, but it doesn't matter because the band is literally there.

[00:13:37] Um, and, um, Gustavo Santoyala, the, the composer was again in this scene. He was playing the, uh, playing, I don't know if it was the mandolin or the banjo there while he was sitting there. Love that. But that old guy with the beard. He, he's the one who composed the, the last of us theme song and a lot of the other music in the games and the, in the show. All of it.

[00:13:59] So that entire sequence was watching that, which was just frame by frame straight from the game. And you can watch that and it's, but the visuals are one thing, but the characters, Isabella Merced is Dina nailed that character so well with that just bubbly exuberance that she has that devil may care attitude, just the, you know, rubbing her smelliness all over Ellie. She, she's great.

[00:14:28] And I, I just, it was such a great point. You just want someone like that in your life. Really? She, well, she's definitely a bit of a manic pixie dream girl, you know? Yes. Uh, a little bit. She's a, yeah, she's a foil or she's a yin and yang. She's to, to Ellie's sort of awkward and more of a, um, aggressive vibe. And Dina's more of a warm vibe and more fully expressed and open and Ellie's closed off and it's a good pairing.

[00:14:57] But to see Ellie like getting giddy and having fun when they were going after the, the clicker in the supermarket. Yeah. That was just adorable. I absolutely loved like the, the making all the little emotions, miming everything, uh, getting into listen mode and all that. It was, it was fantastic. I really enjoyed it. Well, let me go into my first point here, which is Ellie and Joel at odds.

[00:15:24] Cause I think that's at the core of what's going on right now. And, uh, in the little making of video that they do at the end, Neil Druckmann, who's of course, the director of the game and co-showrunner along with Craig Mazin, he's talking about them being at odds. And he says, you realize so much of the story is going to be about perspective, who the heroes are and who the villains are is based on where you're standing.

[00:15:49] And I knew from the game that this season was going to be about that. And that's one of the things I love most about the game, but I didn't, I don't think I ever thought of that concept about, you know, who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, depending on what perspective you're in. I didn't think of that in terms of how people sometimes act the cruelest to the people who are closest to them. I was thinking of it more of enemies who maybe never knew each other, like whether it's groups

[00:16:18] of people who are at war or people who, uh, have resentments towards each other because of something that happened. But in this case, it's kind of applies also with Joel and Ellie and familiarity can breed breed contempt sometimes as sad as it might be. Well, more so often with these kinds of dynamics, I mean, you're going to, how do you put this? You're going to treat the person that, you know, you can get away with it the worst, right? You know, take them for granted. Absolutely.

[00:16:48] And you know, your parent is going to love you no matter what. So you're going to go ahead and treat them like shit every so often. And you know, you just, you just, you accept the fact that it's like, oh, they're going to forgive me. That's just the way that it goes, you know? But this is a situation with a teenager and basically a father where you really, especially you and me, because we've both been teenagers and fathers.

[00:17:11] And so if we can do the thing that many adults seem to forget how to do, honestly, and get into the mindset, remember what it's like to be a teenager, then we can sort of identify with both sides of that coin. And so when Joel's therapist suggests that Ellie's acting like any 19 year old daughter acts, I think in a lot of ways, she's actually right that this is in a lot of ways, a typical

[00:17:37] teenager father dynamic where the teenagers are like wanting to be their own person, to develop their own identity, to prove that to themselves and everyone else, but maybe more importantly, just to themselves that they can handle themselves. And, and meanwhile, the parent on the other side is like, my job is to keep my child safe and on track for a good life.

[00:18:01] And I have experience, so I know how things can go wrong and where I can help prevent pain. And, and I remember, I do remember being on that side, the other side of that with, I lived with my grandmother for a while and she was always nagging me all the time about every little thing, you know? And I just got so sick of it. Like I could handle myself, grandma. But the frustrating thing was half the time she was right. I did forget my keys or whatever, you know? Um, but it's totally understandable.

[00:18:27] It's an evolutionary thing that at some point the bird has to leave the nest and fly. And so you gotta, you gotta get out there and be on your own and differentiate, um, distance yourself from your parental figure. And, and that impulse can be totally at odds with the parental impulse to guide and protect. So I think Ellie has that with Joel, but there's this added thing of it being the freaking apocalypse in and that changes a few things.

[00:18:54] And you happen to be the, the one person on the entire planet who's immune to it. Yeah. Yeah. Holding that big secret. Yeah. And her impulse to go out on her own is stronger because on some level she feels that Joel deprived her of this chance to make a huge impact on the world. And he did that from that parental place of wanting to protect. So she's very allergic to that. Any whiff of it, she's like, fuck you. And I think part of it is guilt. She suspects that she could have saved the world and he took that away.

[00:19:23] And now she just wants to be able to say, get out of my way. Let me do my thing. Not only is it to prove herself, but maybe if, if there is some guilt in there that she might want to be like, Hey, I want to be able to kill some infected. Now you get the fuck out of my way. Let me learn how to do that and be effective. So at least I can do this. Yeah. You know? Well, and we definitely see that in her character. The first time we see Ellie in this episode is that fight where she, you know, it's a training

[00:19:52] fight, but we don't know that at the time. And she's kicking some dude's ass. Who's also kicking her ass. I mean, we see her right after she gets punched square in the face. Right. Uh, and, and you see that need for her to understand that she has to be able to take care of herself. She doesn't want anybody pulling punches. She gets pissed off that Joel is still trying to protect her in that way. Even though actually I think that was Jesse trying to protect her, uh, but trying to protect himself from Joel.

[00:20:20] And, and then even later, of course, at the incident with Seth, you know, I don't need you to protect me. Yeah. It's all echoed throughout this whole episode. She's just like step off. And I think it stems from, like I said, a, just the teenager thing of needing to differentiate your, or yourself, but also be, she just, whether she fully consciously knows it or not deep down, she knows that Joel lied to her in her mind, betrayed her, didn't let her do

[00:20:49] this thing where she got to be a savior. And so she's resentful of that. And I think as the, well, I didn't want to get too much into the therapist. Cause I know that'll be a whole point. But as the therapist said, if you know, let's go, let's go, let's go in the therapist. That would be my next point. Like if you hold something like that, she's so right. Like you can't go around telling the complete truth to every stranger. Like, I don't like that shirt you're wearing or whatever. But when you're with someone that you love and there's a deep thing like that between

[00:21:19] you, that's not expressed. That's we've seen over five years what that can do. It pretty much like, I think the reason why Joel didn't tell Ellie that is because he's afraid what he did, you know, killed all those people to save her is that he's afraid he'll lose her. And, and he did lose her pretty much. He's pretty much lost her. That's what this episode shows. And I, I did love that moment with the therapist where she gets into the meat of, yeah, I'm drinking. I'm not supposed to be drinking. I'm sad.

[00:21:48] No, I'm not sad. I'm actually angry. I shouldn't say this. I have to say this. You know, she kind of went through not the five stages of grief, but I think the, uh, the multiple stages of breaking all sorts of different Hippocratic codes or whatever it might be to get to this point, but, but needing to get there as the therapist who understands what she needs to do for herself. But also what that's going to do is then say, okay, I did that. Your turn to Joel.

[00:22:18] Luckily for her, the, the American medical association, they're all just running around growling. So she doesn't have to worry about that. I don't think she's going to get into trouble with anybody at this point. Yeah. But sorry, go ahead. I don't think she's going to lose her license anytime soon. I mean, it was funny cause it started off. It seemed like, cause he goes in and it's like, oh, why don't you have a drink? And it's like, oh, that's a lot. Then he's paying her in pot.

[00:22:44] And then you think, okay, maybe it's just loose cause it's post-apocalyptic. But then even he's like, uh, I thought you weren't supposed to drink or something. And she's like, ah, it's my birthday. And then you realize, oh, it's because he killed her husband. So it is totally inappropriate even for Jackson. Yeah. And that, and that was charming in its own way, even though it's serious. It really was. No, it really, I mean, Catherine O'Hara, I mean, she's just, she's just amazing.

[00:23:12] I I've always loved that woman from, from as far back as I can remember. Uh, it was actually really funny because, uh, Maggie, my daughter who was watching this, uh, with us last night said, oh, isn't that the woman from Beetlejuice? Like, yeah, yeah, that's her. Best in show. That's what I love. Oh my God. Yes. Parker Posey. Oh, busy bee. Um, but yeah, the, the, the therapist paying her in pot, that was just hilarious.

[00:23:40] Her incredulity at the low quality of said weed, uh, where she then talked about how Eugene, uh, you know, even in the middle of winter could have the stickiest of buds tells us so many different things. I mean, he tells us a bit about Eugene, tells us about her, um, Joel had to kill him and she should understand. So I'm guessing he must've turned. Yeah. Yeah. But it feels like there's a story there that I hope we'll get because she's saying,

[00:24:10] I'm mad at you because of the way you did it. So what does that mean? Like, I know you had to, but cause of the way. Yeah. And, and just sitting there like, gosh, I was imagining being on a therapist couch, you know, you're there because you're hurting and you need some help and your therapist is like telling you they fucking hate your face. Oh shit.

[00:24:37] But I can imagine probably that there's some therapists watching that just feeling really cathartic about it. Like, I wish I could say that to a couple of my, Oh my God. I'm sure there, I'm sure there were so many different therapists who just thought, Oh, your lips. Yeah. No, I thought that entire sequence was amazing though. And, and Joel's response, you know, when she did finally get at it, you're lying, you're lying. We know he's lying.

[00:25:03] One very, just to, to bring it back to the very beginning of this episode, which was the very end of the last episode of season one, right? Uh, the end of season one, Ellie says, okay. And it goes to black and goes to music just like the video game. And this one, uh, we see Joel's reaction to her saying, okay, that apparently was, they

[00:25:29] filmed it a whole bunch of times and it was a decision not to do that at the end of episode, that last episode, but to include it in this one to show that. Okay. Yeah. To show that Joel's had a look of a fuck, you know? And he definitely, Pedro, apparently that was ad libbed. Uh, cause she, Ellie doesn't really look satisfied. She's, it looks like she's saying, uh, all right for now, but I'm not sure I believe you. Yeah.

[00:25:58] And, and knowing that Joel is carrying this around with him, the way that he dealt with the therapist as far as, you know, finally at the end, what did you do to her? Did you hurt her? You know, no, but it was so. No, I saved her. It was so heartbreaking though. When he said, did you do something to her? And he kind of said, yeah, he shook his head. Yes. Yeah. Or nodded his head. Yes. And then did you hurt her? No. Ooh, you know, you know what that is.

[00:26:24] It's, it's, I don't know, for some reason that really hit me and then having that perfectly timed fucking tear rolled down his single T right. I saved her. You know, the tear comes out. Oh God. That's why he gets paid the big bucks. Or the CGI department. One of the two. No. That was some acting, man. But, uh, I still like when he said that, the way he said it, I saved her. I'm like, yeah, I still stand behind Joel.

[00:26:52] I just think, man, you should have done the scary thing and told her at some point and worked through it. If it was possible to do that, you know? So Joel's scary thing. Um, I, I appreciated the opportunity to get to see the, uh, fallout with Abby and her crew three days later after the events of, of last season, what happened in Salt Lake city. That was really, that was kind of cool.

[00:27:21] I mean, we got giraffes again. Yeah. Which was delightful. What were your thoughts on that scene? Well, I think they probably showed the giraffe. So we immediately knew that it was the hospital where Joel killed a bunch of people to save Ellie. Cause yeah, it was so iconic. And, uh, we have this new character, Abby played by Caitlin Deaver and just first thing with her is a closeup on her face.

[00:27:47] And I thought, man, you can see a lot of pain and intensity interface. And then you cut straight to graves with crosses and firefight pendants. And so if people didn't get a chance to do a rewatch, just to remind you, fireflies are this revolutionary militia fighting against this federal, the impressive military rule and post-apocalyptic U S and they were looking for a cure.

[00:28:14] And that's why Joel needed to take Ellie across the U S because she was immune and to the bites. And there was a firefly doctor there who could somehow extract a cure, but it would kill her. And Joel found out they were going to kill her. So he killed all of them. Um, so, you know, just from all that, remembering all that and seeing how the, these people are sad and pissed off and there's a bunch of graves there.

[00:28:38] Then, um, uh, what the thing I thought was really notable about it is one woman in the group who's Mel says it wasn't true that Ellie was the cure. She says it isn't possible. And then another woman, Nora says, even if it were, it wouldn't fucking matter anyway, not without. And I think that's because Joel killed all the scientists and doctors. Yeah. But it, so this story is playing out from that controversy that we talked about, uh, a lot

[00:29:06] on this podcast about whether Joel should have done what he did to save Ellie. That was a lot about the idea that he might've stopped a cure for the infected, but at least with this group, they're making a point of saying that's not what it's about for them. They don't even know if Ellie could have done it. One person thinks probably not, but what's important to them is that they lost people that they cared about. And I think that was kind of the point of this scene. They're sitting there crying over these graves. They're not sure about Ellie saving the world.

[00:29:36] It's about the people that Joel killed. And, and they specifically say like they stuck around specifically to save the ones they could and they didn't save any of them. So I think it's interesting that we're introduced to these new characters who are essentially dropping a mission statement, right? Right at the beginning. Uh, they're kind of laying out like what their purpose is, what they plan on doing and they plan on doing it slowly. You know, that was, that was freaking brutal. Right. And it made me want, I wanted to ask you on the podcast, do you think you could ever get

[00:30:05] to a place where you felt like that about somebody? Yes. Yes. Sorry. Quick answer. You're like, I'm already there. Yeah. Kind of. Um, yeah, no, I, I definitely, you know, I think I probably could too. Yeah. There are situations where, you know, especially in this, uh, in, as you mentioned in the apocalypse, uh, but this, this goes back to what you were saying earlier on is that so much of this is about perspective, right? We're getting a kind of a Rashomon sort of thing with all the different, how do you view

[00:30:35] it and what really happened and what's going on? So you have these people who clearly, as you said, lost all these people that they care about. They're already seeking vengeance. It's only been three days. She wants to go after. I liked that. It was a Joel, maybe Joe six feet. This is some consider him handsome for some reason that I kind of lost it. Laughed a little bit at this. Some consider him handsome. I'm like, fuck that guy. I don't even care if he's handsome. I'm going to scar his face up. Yeah.

[00:31:05] You know, scoffed at it. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. It really was. And then we get the, the episode essentially bookended with the same group at the end looking on Jackson. Right. Right. Yes. It'll be fine. It's going to be fine. Yeah, I'm sure. Absolutely. I mean, they're, they're going to pop in. It's New Year's Eve. Woo. They're going to party, have a few drinks. They'll talk it out. Get the therapist in there. Okay. Let me go on.

[00:31:34] I want to talk a little bit about, so Ellie, Ellie's really focused on, I call it leveling up. That's what we say when our kids like every once in a while, like we'll go on a trip or something and they'll just, it feels like they're a video game character leveling up. Suddenly they know more words or they have more skills. It happens in a day, right? It's just a weird thing where I remember that happening with the kids where I'm like, Whoa. Where'd you learn all that all of a sudden? Yeah. Yeah. And, and so Ellie, as I said, she wants to distance herself from Joel and feel like

[00:32:04] she can protect herself and make her own way. And in the apocalypse, that means developing the skill to kill infected, to handle yourself around the infected. So when I saw this fight, I immediately thought maybe this is training. And then it was, it was pretty intense. So I'm like, Oh, maybe not. But then it was. And, um, and they just want to show us how determined she is to be able to take care of herself. And also to show how a small person like Ellie could believably do that.

[00:32:31] So I read that Bella Ramsey studied some Brazilian jujitsu for this train for it. And that's a style used a lot in, in MMA mixed martial arts. And I read Brazilian jujitsu focuses on using an opponent's force against them, emphasizing leverage over strength. It has throws, joint locks, chokes, and a lot of grappling, particularly on the ground. It prioritizes submissions like arm bars, which is where you trap the other person's

[00:33:00] arm between your legs to hyper extend their elbow and just pull it back, you know, or choke holds. I know. Yeah. Stuff like that. And that's what she was doing to the guy. Right. And that'll let, that lets small fighters like Ellie control or defeat larger opponents effectively. So I think we're going to be seeing more than that. I think that was to set us up to believe, okay, she can be pretty lethal in close combat. We saw her and we saw her do that. I mean, jumping on that clicker like a spider monkey to say, you know, so we, we are, we did see that in action with, with exactly.

[00:33:30] We did see that in action with an actual clicker, not just with, with the dude. So I thought that whole scene was fantastic and setting up Ellie for who she has become. Which I guess is just a scary, violent spider monkey. Yeah. I mean, when she was standing out in front of Joel's porch at the end, I was like, this reminds me of like a Michael Meyer movie or something. I would go inside Joel. That was so sad. That was so sad.

[00:33:59] Yeah, it was sad. But, uh, so other leveling up. So she's long distance rifle target shooting with Tommy and, um, and Ellie says headshot and Tommy says always, but I just wanted to remind people that in this world, you don't have to have a headshot to kill an infected, but it's like the quickest and most sure. Yeah. I think you could kill it, like shoot him in the heart or whatever. Um, Tommy tells Ellie that Joel told him to take her off patrols and put her on gate watch.

[00:34:29] And that's just the same thing we've been talking about. Like, fuck you, man. Get away from me. You know, I, you're protecting. I don't want your protection anymore. Um, but you know, as I said, I can understand him too. Like that's my job. I'm trying to keep you safe. Uh, so she talks Tommy into putting her back on patrol and everything they do on patrol, charging into danger. That's maybe a bit too much for them.

[00:34:56] That fits into this to just her constantly trying to prove herself. A hundred percent them, them ignoring the cat and going into the, the store and doing everything that Ellie did where we know she shouldn't be doing a hundred percent. Um, the same thing thoughts. Another, another new character that came into this that I really enjoyed young Mozzino. I believe his name is Jesse. Jesse. I've got to ask, does he have a lazy eye? Oh, I didn't notice. I think he may.

[00:35:25] And I, I noticed and I thought that's rad. I've got to ask Jason if you notice. Why would you be asking me? No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I have a lazy eye. I'll have to look at for that next time. But I thought he was a great character because he, he's, he felt like a boy Scouts thing. You know, you got the older Scouts and they're not that much older, but they're given, they're tasked with being leaders and they're trying to do the best they can to get these brats to fucking list. Yeah.

[00:35:53] Except it's more, it's more crucial here. More serious. And death are on the line. But he just did such a good job of being as patient as he could. And he just seemed like a really cool guy to me that takes a lot of shit. Oh yeah. He, he is definitely one of those dudes in every friend group that like everybody loves and is just always cool. Always hanging out. And everyone's like, oh yeah, Jesse's here. Cool. You know, I don't know something about him. Uh, I thought he, he did the character just amazingly well. You're right.

[00:36:20] It, he leads that a wonderful, again to use foil, but like against the youthfulness of Ellie and Dina, how they're goofing around and being all silly. And, and basically they're flirting like all crazy, even though Dina and Jesse are a thing off and on apparently. Um, so you have this little triangle happening. Um, but he, I felt like he did a good job and maybe it's in the writing too of he's really

[00:36:46] straddling that line between child and adult because he's having to be the leader, lay down the rules. But then, you know, when he's off duty, he's like, are you going to the thing tonight? And you know, like, yeah, I just got broken up with and stuff like that. When Ellie called him out for only being four years older than they are. I mean, that, that, that just cracked me up. And, and like, like you said, it is like the boy Scouts where it's like, come on guys, get it together. Um, I thought it was fantastic.

[00:37:15] And I thought he was a great character introduced to this group. It just felt good. And, and Ellie and Jesse at the, at the party, kind of their back and forth and you feel like they're, they have a nice connection. Uh, just really digging it. Yep. Well, let's see. I want to talk about poor Joel trying his best to deal. So it was interesting to see him have a scene with Dina to fix these circuit breakers.

[00:37:46] And, you know, it seems like she's helping him deal with that distance he's feeling with Ellie. You know, no one can stand in for Ellie, but at least, you know, it probably makes him feel a little better to have a young person. Like he said to Gail, like, you know, yeah, she gets it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And while he was saying, teaching her about circuit breakers, he taught me something I didn't know too. I, I didn't know. Me neither. Circuit breaker was cool. So that was cool.

[00:38:14] Um, this, but I think that scene mostly was to show that Ellie's still mad at Joel and it's apparent to Dina, but no one's talking about why. So it's just like everyone feels there's a big problem here, but they're all keeping it a secret. You know, it's obvious. Um, Joel's writing it off as a, as a typical teenage thing. At least that's what he says to on the surface. I mean, he knows what it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. But it was funny.

[00:38:40] Um, because Dina is the one who initiated sort of the touchy feely or feelings centered conversation. But then she goes back to talking about the breaker and then it's Joel that wants to continue it. He's like, well, actually, that's just another charming thing that happened. Oh, I love it. And then, then her, the whole thing was just like, you're going to therapy. I can't hold myself responsible for another person's emotional state. Are you in fucking therapy?

[00:39:06] And then later she tried to get Ellie to like, she tried to connect them. We're going to go to a movie night. Come with us. So she's just, yeah, you're right. Manny pixie dream girl too. Yeah, absolutely. But the whole Curtis and Viper thing. I love that again, another callback season one. That was what, uh, uh, Sarah put on borrowed from the, the neighbor to Curtis and Viper two to play for her dad on his birthday. So that's been something we've known that Joel loves this clearly.

[00:39:34] He sure he's shown his and shared his love of Curtis and Viper with Ellie and even Dina knows this. They've watched all the movies probably multiple times. Exactly. I'm sure in the apocalypse, you don't have that many movies to choose from. So, you know, you're, she had a pretty good collection of tapes. Her room was laid out. So great. Oh my God. She had some Nirvana up there. There was, uh, the strokes. This is it. Uh, album was up there. Some white stripes. Oh, definitely. She has some.

[00:40:02] But so back on track with Joel trying his best to deal. Then later he's talking with Maria about how Jackson's running out of space to hold new people and he was in construction. So he's, you know, going to be real helpful. He is being really helpful. Yeah. And they can't build fast enough. And he argues that they should leave some people out. He says, if I could, I let them all in and I'm working every damn day and night to make more space. You know that, but you got to look after your own first or you're no good to anyone. And I'm like, well, that's your theme. You just said your theme, but it's hard to argue with, right?

[00:40:31] You can only build as fast as you can. And he is trying. He, he, he wants to bring as many people that can fit, but not more. And it is interesting though, that this is, you know, after season one, we saw all these different types of communities with raiders and with the cannibals and with all these things. And to see Jackson maintaining, it's almost utopian, uh, communist, uh, way of life and

[00:40:57] still accepting people and not turning people away is just a sort of, it's a nice thing. It makes me afraid for it. I feel like, especially with these tendrils, the tendrils coming out of the pipe, blown to shit. So, you know, I don't want to see that, but you know, these shows, but I also have Rick Grimes shows up, they should turn him away. Yes. Okay. Fair enough. Every community.

[00:41:25] If some dude in a leather jacket and a baseball bat shows up, definitely shoot him. Talking about little piggies. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's not this world. This world is hopefully. But so after all this, I'm thinking, man, poor Joel, Ellie hates him. Maria's mad at him for not building fast enough. Even his therapist literally hates him. Um, but to her credit, after she said, you know, I'm, uh, I'm telling you what I'm afraid

[00:41:53] to tell you that I'm mad at you for killing my husband. Then, and I hate your face. I can't believe you're even in my house. Then she still is committed to using that to get Joel to say the thing he's hiding so she can help him. She says, I promise I will help. But then I wondered, oh yeah, but would you change your mind if he said, you know, oh, I prevented a doctor from finding a cure to the virus. I'm curious. I mean, but I, I also, I was very curious about her reaction during the party and what Joel did with Seth. You know, they, they definitely made a point to go to her. Yeah.

[00:42:23] So what is she thinking? Like, ah, what is going on? You know, I don't, I mean, we don't know. It's yeah. I wasn't sure why they showed her, but it was interesting. Yeah. I understand. We're going to get some backstory on Seth. Oh, good. That where he came from and why he is the way he is. Yeah. I mean, honestly, so you started talking about that. Yeah. That scene with, with Dina and Ellie.

[00:42:47] And I thought it was just so perfect because it reminded me, I mean, Ellie's awkward and she's against the wall over there off to the side with Jesse looking at this girl that she's clearly in love with who's free spirited and open and beautiful and going around just being wild and fun and dancing with all these different guys. And I can identify with that.

[00:43:13] I've been against the wall at the dance, looking at the girl I wish I was with. And then the girl came over and pulled her out and gave her a big kiss. And it's like, ah, that's a fantasy come true, you know? But then you got the guy Seth there saying, uh, this is a family establishment or whatever. And just based on that part of it, you know, of course I'm like, come on party pooper, but also, ah, there's kids and you probably don't want people making out for too long on the

[00:43:43] dance floor. But then he used a slur and then it's like, okay, you're a piece of shit. You know, show runners made a point of pointing out that this takes, uh, this takes place in 2000. Well, it takes place in 2029, uh, specifically, but the apocalypse happened in 2003. Yeah. Gay rights were not as supported in 2003 as they are now.

[00:44:08] So, well, I want to make it clear if he, to the extent that he came from a place of this isn't okay because these two are gay, I'm saying screw you buddy. But to the extent that I thought he may have been coming at it from a place of, I don't think I want people making out right now here in the middle of the floor. Then I could sort of understand. Oh, no, no. But I understand that the, the, the show, the show runners and the, they, they made a point of saying that gay rights were not as accepted in 2003 as they would have been now.

[00:44:38] So they're still in an old, more of an old school mindset. So I am happy to hear that we're also going to get more of a backstory on Seth. Um, okay. Oh yeah, no, I think the dude's a douchebag a hundred percent. I'm not defending him. I mean, he could be redeemed if he apologizes and sees the error of his ways. I, I absolutely, you know, we shall see. What else? Oh man. Uh, the bear, there was the bear. That was something else.

[00:45:07] It was such a great setup, but I then felt cheated out of not getting to see a bunch of clickers attacking a bear. True. I was like, oh, that would have been cool to see. We did have an arm laying there. I thought that was pretty cool. It was so good. No, I mean, overall this episode, it covered a lot of ground. You know, the first episode started off a little more of the series going back to the

[00:45:32] first one, starting in Austin, Texas, and then going out to the Boston QZ and then looking at a way to get out of the Boston QZ. This is very contained here in Jackson, Wyoming, right? With the exception of the beginning. This felt cozy in a very strange way that I feel that, that we are meant to have that feeling of coziness and it's going to be completely and totally disrupted and fucked up and turned

[00:46:01] on its head in the next episode. And I think that's what we're supposed to feel. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I think, yeah, it's covering the walking dead and all these podcasts. I feel like there's just some people who, when it gets nice like this, they just think, ah, I wish it could just stay like this and maybe it will. And I'm like, no, and when it's not going to stay like this.

[00:46:31] Oh man. Calling out a, calling out a listener. No, of course it's not going to stay like this. And that's the whole point. It's it. I don't know. I was just so happy to be back in this world, even though I've, I'm on the record so many times of saying what a miserable world this is, but I'm, I'm so happy to be back into it. And they did such a good job in my opinion of putting us back here, you know, to where

[00:46:59] I feel like, ah, it just, there's some weird comfort to it that I just happy to be back with Joel, even if he's miserable Ellie, even though she's surly Dina, who's just lovely, you know, it was a pleasant episode. Like I said, and, and we just can't get used to that. And also, I just want to say, I love and when she's awesome. Well, I want to talk about Dina a little bit. Please. So Isabella Merced, she was in the recent alien movie and she was great, but I, I had more fun watching her play this character. Way more. Yes.

[00:47:30] Uh, I think from the start of the episode, well, after the time jump, my feeling is Dina knows Ellie's into her and she's a couple steps ahead of her the whole time. And I think she's already into Ellie. I think when she comes over to get Ellie for patrol duty and she's helping her with her zipper and gets all close to her, she knows she's getting Ellie flustered. I think when she asks if she's going to the dance and if she's taking anyone and not cat, who's the other one.

[00:48:01] And she goes, Oh, you're into someone else. I think she knows that Ellie's into her. Oh, I think she was rubbing her leg up on Ellie's leg when she said that actually. No, it was, um, oh my God. The other one that about had me dying laughing. I was cracking up. Um, very funny. Yeah, that was good. Very good. And then she does the whole barbecue pun, which is probably the worst pun we've heard on this show, but she knows Ellie eats that shit up.

[00:48:29] You know, Maggie, again, my, my daughter said that was a terrible pun as well. And I'm sitting there like, I thought it was pretty good. I liked a lot of the puns, but not that one. Um, other thing that I think we should get more deeply into is just the whole patrol where, um, you mentioned the bear and I thought it was pretty annoying of Dina and Ellie to just ignore orders after they beg to go on patrol.

[00:48:58] And then they just flout authority. Keep going when they see blood and the leaders like we should go back. They, they head into this building with clickers. Honestly, that is serious. And if they were going to do shit like that, they shouldn't be allowed to be on patrol because you need to know that you can count on the people that you're with not to be stupid. You know, it's serious. One thing about the patrol I really liked is they talked about the colors for the day. Yeah. You know, yellow is safe. Green is warning.

[00:49:28] So you get this idea that they, they mix up the colors. So as to if there are raiders or if there are some people who are bad news, they're not going to know necessarily what these colors mean, which I thought was pretty cool. Spying on them. Yeah. Nice little touch. And, and practical details in what you're bringing up. It did remind me of like, oh my God, how did I forget that the stalker? Yeah. Well, wait, let me get, let me get up to that. Sorry about that. Yeah.

[00:49:56] So a couple of things from the games that I don't feel like are spoilers are just kind of fun. When they climb up the truck and they, like you kind of alluded to this earlier, they crouch down and listen for clickers in the store. And that is something we never got from season one. They had a lot of things from the game in season one, but a dynamic that's in the game is this listening dynamic where you crouch down and then the whole screen turns like

[00:50:22] grayscale and you can see light where there's any nearby infected, even if they're behind walls and stuff. Video game echo location. Yes. Yeah. And that's, you do that all the time in the game. And so here, um, that's, I think how they were sort of showing that cause they could listen and tell there were how many there were. Um, so that was kind of fun. Also, I don't think they ever did bricks and bottles. No bottles. Oh my God.

[00:50:52] I was like that. Those are the two things that were missing from the game. The two big things. I'm still mad. There's no brick. I'm team. I know we need a brick, but we're always picking up bottles or bricks in the game and you can either throw them somewhere to distract a infected or a person like who's over there and they'll walk over there or you can throw it right at their head and they're discombobulated and you run over and knife them or, you know, choke them to death. So that was fun to see. So she kills, she does that with one clicker, kills it.

[00:51:21] And I thought it was, you can really see how Ellie's progressed because the big clicker scene from season one, she was scared shitless. Now she's like running eager to engage, falls through the floor. And then the whole sequence, the stalker sequence was really cool. Jenny was hiding her eyes saying it's like a horror movie. Nice. And that's good, right? Oh yeah. It is a horror movie. That's what this is.

[00:51:46] Oh, and seeing it, seeing it just creeping around behind her was just like, oh, I was like, what is that? Is that a cat? Yeah. That entire sequence was. The entire grocery store sequence. I really did enjoy that. And right out of the game for the most part. I mean, it was in the game. If I remember right. Yeah. It wasn't stalkers. It was clickers and runners, which are the regular ones. Right. Maybe. Yeah. I think so. Sure. But that doesn't matter. I'm just.

[00:52:13] No, but it was again, going back to that dynamic between Ellie and the Ellie and, and, and, and, and Dina, the rest of the crew, how they're just disobeying all the rules that they should be following. You know, like everything you said is correct. Like they should not be out there doing that if they're behaving this way. Yeah. Um, but their, their communication between the two of them, the miming, all of that, but they were, but they were in fact very effective and it, but it is hilarious.

[00:52:40] Well, again, Dina is telling Ellie don't move. Stay right there. And Ellie fucking ignores even Dina. Uh, it's so frustrating sometimes. Oh, 19 year olds. And then, yeah, you, you see, like you said, they're behind her and she thinks she knows where it is. And then she's running after it. She's like, come out and get me. And so in the game, you'd actually don't see these until the second game, which is, I

[00:53:08] think just a way of giving us something new and interesting to deal with. Um, but I, I thought maybe the stalkers, cause I love in this show, they put things in not just for thrills, but it's got meaning to it. And maybe I'm reaching, but maybe the stalker is a metaphor for the more complicated dynamics between Joel and Ellie. Like just when you thought you figured something out, you got to deal with like less things out of left field, you know?

[00:53:37] And that's what the stalker is to, to, um, Ellie. And it would have made more sense if Joel would have encountered it. Cause I feel like he's the one more feeling like he's doesn't know how to deal with what's happening. But anyway, um, the way she did exactly what she told them later, it lured her in. And that was really fun to watch. And that's what happens in the game, right? You're there. Like you hear them and then you trying to find them so you can shoot them. And you might see one like duck behind something. And you're like, God damn it. I hate him.

[00:54:07] And then you walk over and it's dark. And then, and then you hear all of a sudden there's like three of them on top of you. Cause you ran into the middle of where you shouldn't have been. I liked that they did. They treated it as a genuine new evolution of something. How Ellie and, and Dina had to face the council to discuss it. Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. Yet at the same time, it made me giggle when at the end, when they were really, okay, just say, you know, say sorry to cat and say seven hell Marys, whatever it is that

[00:54:36] was where, and Ellie kind of walks away. Like, woo, got away with it. Yeah. There was a still a massive unseriousness about what she's doing. Oh yes. And that's, that's the fault in my opinion of Tommy and Maria as much as it is Ellie. I, I, I did enjoy the scene though of, uh, well you and you and Joel would have done the same thing. You're no difference between you and Joel. Joe. Oh yes, it is. And Maria is like, no, it's not.

[00:55:07] She undermined him. Um, you said they handle it perfectly, but actually, uh, the stalker bit Ellie. And I think that's really frustrating for her because this whole time, as I said, she's trying to prove to herself and everyone else that she has what it takes to handle herself against these guys. And here's an instance where the only reason she does is because she has an advantage over everybody else, you know? So it was like, fuck. Yeah. No, you're right. That recklessness.

[00:55:35] If she was anybody else, that would have, she would have been dead. Yeah. Same thing with when she was with Riley. If she was anybody else, she would have been dead. So then she cut her bite scar, I guess, just to make it not look like a bite. I'm assuming that was what, yeah. But what, what is it? I guess it doesn't matter. I know, I have a feeling we're, well, yeah, who knows? We might see that down the road. Okay. I feel like that was like Chekhov's, uh, scarring.

[00:56:05] Uh, so only other point I had is just a few more charming things. I've already pointed some out. I, uh, really loved Ellie screaming that she got bit and she's immune when Tommy's telling her not to say it out loud. And I made this little clip. This is a little something for walking dead fans out there. Look, I ask and you answer. It's common courtesy, right? Did you get bit?

[00:56:34] I got bit on my arm. Ellie, we don't talk about that. I got bit, everybody! I got bit! Hey! Hey, hey! I'm immune! Oh, hey! Woo! Jesus! God damn. That was cute. I enjoyed that. Tommy's like, God damn it! Shut up! God damn it, this damn kid. Good. Um, and then you've kind of alluded to this too, but when Maria tells Joel they need to build faster and he goes, oh good, we have this style called the constructometer.

[00:57:04] The more you turn it, the faster we go. And then later when Tommy comes in, what are you guys up to? Uh, well, your wife wants me to build faster. Did you tell her about the big dial? Which just really conveys that they've had this long relationship. Oh, yeah. They used to work in construction, you know. Well, and there's even that same, um, that same sort of dynamic between, uh, Tommy and Ellie, right? Where Tommy's saying like, you know, you're just like Joel.

[00:57:34] And it's like, well, if you know I'm just like Joel, you know you're going to lose. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah. So many of those scenes with Ellie when she's being that 19 year old, both, uh, made me love it and hate her at the same time. Or I'm like, God damn God, resin fricking no good run. What would you have said if I would have came on the podcast and been like, nah, I didn't, I didn't really love it. What the show? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:04] I guess that's what we, we did that with the rise of Skywalker. We've already been here. So I don't know. You have to bow out. Just be you by yourself. Yeah. Pretty much. I don't do those anymore. I know. I did the last one. I did actually skipped off rise of Skywalker. You did. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I meant to say the force awakens actually is what I meant. That's the one. Uh, so I only have notes left. Do you have any more points or should we go to notes? No. Other than you really were very right about the force awakens. Yeah.

[00:58:33] Thank you. Oh, I've been waiting to hear that for so long. No, I'm just kidding. I think I've mentioned that before. No, but do you don't have any notes? No, no, I don't. I think I've covered everything. I just had a few quick ones. They really aged Joel, right? He's got Pedro Pascal. Yeah, they definitely made him look a little bit older, a little more gray. It's had a rough few years, it looks like. Future Days is the title of this Pearl Jam song that Joel, I guess I can say, Joel plays for Ellie in the game.

[00:59:03] And it's interesting that they called this episode that and we didn't get that scene. We didn't see it. Yeah, I hope we get that scene. I'm pretty sure. Again, the showrunners have actually said that they are aware of the fact that that song came out after 2003, so it didn't exist at the time of this apocalypse. And their take on it is, we don't give a shit. Well, I heard Druckmann say there may have been a YouTube video of him playing it at a concert before it came out.

[00:59:33] Okay, there we go. Which maybe there actually wasn't, but that's what he said. No, I'm waiting for Joel to go with Ellie. He's got the new strings on the guitar. He's going to say, you know, Ellie, my good friend Eddie Vedder, who I knew before the apocalypse. He played this song. He showed me this song. Yeah. Backstage. Maybe he's going to show up as a survivor. He's going to be in Jackson. That'd be pretty cool. Why not? Actually, I'd be really happy to see him in this. That'd be great.

[01:00:03] One more thing. Another thing. We saw Ellie just quickly snatch her switchblade stuck to the table on the way out for patrol. And it just made me think back. She had that all last season. We saw her with it in the pilot when Joel first met her and she was grabbing for it. And he kicked it away from her in the hallway with Marlene there. And then at the end of that episode, she stabbed the Fedder guy who had scanned her and it showed that she was infected. And her mom gave that to her. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:33] That's in the final. So that was in episode five. I think she cut her hand with it to try to save Sam by giving him some of her blood in in episode seven left behind with the flashback with Riley. She killed an infected that attacked her and Riley with that knife. And then, as you said, in the season finale, we find out it was her mom's. Her mom used it to kill the infected that bit her. And then she cut her umbilical cord with it.

[01:00:59] And then, you know, we presume she gave it to Marlene who gave it to Ellie later or something. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a thing. These objects. Tendrils from the past. Speaking of tendrils. Tendrils. I mean, we already kind of thought, yeah, they'll probably call more infected in, especially with Maria saying she has a bad feeling about hordes coming. They're pretty much telegraphing that. But I also wondered if maybe there were.

[01:01:28] I don't think that tendrils can infect people, right? You need an actual infected to do that. I do think that's just going to be a matter of, you know, a communication sort of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's just going to be a, hey, we're aware you're here. Where's the party? We heard this party. Kind of. Yeah. I think it's basically it's like, we're hungry. They're not even hungry. They just want to spread, you know? Yeah. They just want to make out.

[01:01:55] Oh, did you notice one thing I got a kick out of the girl? What was the girl infected that had shit coming out of her nose? They actually had the tendrils coming out of her nose. Was that the stalker? Was that the stalker? The stalker was a girl. It was the stalker. Sorry. Yeah. Had the tendril. It started coming out of her nose. I was like, that's fucked up. Yeah. It's just all kinds of fucked up. No, it really. I don't know.

[01:02:23] Something about like we had the old lady coming out of her mouth. Well, the kiss with the. Tess. Tess. Yeah. Tess with the kiss. Of course, that was grotesque. Grotesque. Grotesque. Grotesque.

[01:03:05] All right. We're back. It's time for the game talk segment. We'll be talking about things from the games. There might be, you know, I don't think there's going to be, there will be no plot spoilers for the show. But if you're like super sensitive to any spoilers at all, you might want to skip this section. But really, I think it's just going to be talking about what's similar and different from the game that we've seen in this episode. So, yeah. I mean, actually, even we've mostly talked about everything. I mean, in so many ways.

[01:03:35] I mean, there are some things we can get into, but. Well, I made just some notes chronologically. Some random notes. Chronologically, sure. Sure. Um, we've got Manny, Nora, Mel, Owen, and Abby. Uh, so we'll just say we know them very well from the games. All of Abby's friends there. Yeah, I was very happy to see them all there. Like, I know you all. And even though we just got a very little bit from Owen, I thought he nailed the vibe. Agreed. Right? Yeah, agreed. Just a good guy. Yeah.

[01:04:06] Yeah. Absolutely. There's, unlike the game, there's no mystery here about Abby wanting to kill Joel in the game. When we met Abby, we didn't know what she was up to. And it took a while for us to find out. Well, and so, so right off the bat, we, we know we're getting a little bit more of a linear story than what we got in the game. Yeah. Right. Because the scene at the dance was referred to like, oh, there was a kiss.

[01:04:32] We knew that, uh, Ellie kissed or that Dina kissed Ellie, but we never saw it until the very end of the game. Yeah. We did. We didn't get that until they were already living on the farm. Yeah. Together. So that didn't come until way later yet. At the same time, that was, that was a scene they put in the original trailer. Right. Yeah. Right. What was this party scene and Dina with this girl and all that. That's why I was like, and, and seriously seeing that scene come to life.

[01:05:01] What it just, it blew my mind. I was just like, oh my God, they got so well done down. Yeah. They did it so well. And it sold me on Dina to such, to such a degree. Cause she, she really nailed that so well. She did the vibe. I mean, the look of it was perfect. It was like. Like you almost wouldn't want them to copy the game so perfectly with most games.

[01:05:27] You wouldn't, but because the last of us is so cinematic, it's just great the way it is. So why mess with perfection? But not only did they nail the look and the sound, got the same song and the band and the same camera angles. But yeah, I think what really just brought it home was Isabella Merced nailing that vibe. Both, both, both she and Bella really Bella.

[01:05:51] And I, and I, and I said this while watching this with my family was there, when all of this was happening, the look on Bella's face of just like, oh my God, is this happening? She nailed it. She nailed the same looks of Ellie in the video game. That was just like, wow, that this really is the character now. It's, it's, it felt, it felt so good. And, and I don't know, I was really, really happy to see that, that I feel like they just,

[01:06:21] they just hit it out of the park. The one, the one line that they slightly changed was, uh, when Dina says they should be terrified of you and Ellie in the game says, I'm just a girl. I'm not a threat in the show. She just says, I'm not a threat. She does not say I'm just a girl. Yeah. She knows she's not just a girl. Yeah. And I think when you put it that way saying, I'm not a threat without the, I'm just a girl part.

[01:06:50] When you put in, I'm just a girl, it's about your own personal power. But when you just say, I'm not a threat, I think it more means, well, you like guys or you wouldn't want to date me something like that. You know, it's more about the dating thing than it is about like, yeah, yeah. I thought that, that, that whole scene just played out so well. I was just tickled pink. Yeah. Really was Eugene. Yeah.

[01:07:16] Eugene is, uh, you don't see Eugene in the game much like Frank. You just know that he grows pot in a den and then he had a stroke at age 70 something. Um, but now in the show, Joel killed Eugene. That's new. That's new. That's absolutely new. Um, and, and, and this very much leads to what is sure to be what we're going to get in

[01:07:45] the future here with the, the series flashbacks. Yeah. I hope to see a flashback of Joel killing Eugene. Well, we know the ad, we know that there's an actor who's going to be playing Eugene. So we do already know that. Oh, okay. So we're definitely going, you know, we talked about that in the last episode. Is it Josh McDermott? Brian Cranston. That'd be interesting. Um, no, no, it's a Woody Harrelson. Um, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[01:08:14] Uh, actually who is it now? I'm just blanking out on who it is. Joey pants, Joey penalty. Oh, that's right. Pantaleona. Yeah. Lona. Oh my God. We talked about that last time. My apologies. Yeah, we did. So that's going to be Eugene. So we are going to get some, some of Eugene. I'm really stoked about that. He'll be great. Um, which means, okay, we're going to get some cool flashbacks and seeing how we got, uh, more about Abby and her crew that we never got in the game was far as getting to see that three days after in Salt Lake city.

[01:08:44] Um, which I'm sure is meant to kind of help us along on this linear journey. We're going to be going now. It makes me question how we're going to be dealing with it going forward. The linear aspect of it. Yeah. And the way that they, um, handled it so far makes me feel really good about it. And I already trusted them, but it was great. I didn't mind things getting moved around at all. Um, the storyline of the tendrils making way their way through the pipes, of course, wasn't in the game.

[01:09:12] Cause if you know, those tendrils aren't even in the game, it's all about spores in the game. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Dina and Joel having this father daughter relationship wasn't in the game, right? I don't remember anything about that. There is a scene where in the game where Dina does tell Ellie that she's going to be watching Curtis and Viper with Joel. Oh, that does come up. Uh, we just never see it, but there is a relationship with Dina and Joel does say like, Oh, I really like Dina, you know?

[01:09:41] Um, so we just don't see them talking. We just don't see them. So that was added to the show. I think. Yeah. Uh, Ellie and Tommy long distance target shooting with the rifles is in the game. I think it's a flashback in the game, but it's the same idea. It is a flashback. Yeah. When you see her aiming at this clicker and right on its head and shooting, I'm like, no, no, no, no. You have to aim it above the head. Well, so in this scene in the game, uh, this leads to Tommy saying, Hey, I know you and

[01:10:10] Joel are having some problems. Yeah. And then they go back down, meet up with Joel and this leads to, uh, them looking for guitar strings. Right. Right. And, and then they end up giving up on it. One thing we didn't talk about in this episode was when Joel sees the guitar lying there covered in laundry with dust all over the board. So, you know that it hasn't been played at all. Yeah. And he asked her about it. How, how much have you been playing this enough?

[01:10:39] And he's not happy and he grabs it and walks storms out. Basically. I'll see, you know, you'll get this back tomorrow. Kind of a thing. Um, that was a bit of a sad moment. Yeah. And, and that in the game, I think it's before the time jump when he goes and he gives her this guitar and he, um, plays future days for, yeah. And it's not, um, things are not great between them, but they're not as bad as they get.

[01:11:08] And the lyrics, I'll say a little bit of the lyrics here. If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself. Everything I have found dear, I've not found by myself. So it's just a really touching moment. It's in the prologue of the game. Um, but, uh, I hope we get to see that. I hope so too. I really do. And especially because they did say they don't give a shit about the fact that it didn't happen at that point.

[01:11:33] So, uh, she has the same awesome tattoo over her bite, this moth. That was pretty cool to see. And they, they, they gave a nice little hint about who did that where, where Dina said, Oh, cat left her mark on you. Oh, that was the tattoo artist that did that. Yeah. So yeah, I did. I gotta say, I love seeing cat. I didn't want to mention it in the first part of this, but, uh, actually seeing her and,

[01:12:00] and seeing like the, the whole exchange with Dina with the other one, it killed me. I just thought it was Maggie loved it. We're laughing. Um, good times. And, uh, there's a, so there was a new edition of the last of us part two where they added some extras and there's a director's commentary and there's also some like deleted segments. And I played through those. Did you?

[01:12:29] No, I don't think I have. One of the, there are some in the sewers and they're not very well finished, but they're kind of interesting. And one is outside the dance. And so I think they pulled from that here cause it looks the same. There's just stuff going on outside. Oh, nice. I love seeing all that. And I, they made the dance like a cat is in it. She's like, Oh, cat is in it. Okay. Drawing caricatures or something like that. Oh, cool. No, I never saw that, but I liked they made it new year's Eve. Yeah. There was never a reason for the party.

[01:12:58] It was just a dance. It was a party. But now I like how Tommy's like, all right, is business over? Cause there's a party. Yeah. I like that too. Gail, the therapist, not in the game at all. Not at all. When they, at the market that the truck backed up to the green place market and the dog as the employee of the month was in there. Oh my God. I was so happy at seeing the dog. I was just like, Oh, seven, seven, 2013.

[01:13:28] That's the combination. That's the combination. I think it was in that part. It was in some part of the game where the dog was the employee of the month. And, um, just the whole market just looked so awesome. And the way they fell through the floor, all of that is right. Yeah. It was, it felt very, it felt very gamey yet at the same time, unlike season one, where I feel like people really called out some of the parts that felt like a game. Yeah. People who had played the game. Yeah.

[01:13:57] They were called like, Oh, that seemed like it came from a game. This, I felt like I knew it came from the game, but it didn't feel like it. Yeah. I mean, we'll see. Maybe people will say the same thing. I could imagine somebody might think picking up a bottle might seem like it came from a game. I did notice it was a bud light and that made me chuckle. Oh, I don't know why. Oh, the bottle is just a bud light. Yeah. Just cause it was, you know, a thing, an issue for a while. Anything else?

[01:14:27] That's all I had about it. Yeah. That's about, I mean, the, I, as one of those blind spots, I am, I'm excited to find out about the tendrils, uh, coming through the pipes and what, I think we're right that that's going to lead to a horde showing up and all that. But I, I appreciate the fact that that's something that the tendril thing was never in the game, but they're still utilizing it and it's still. Yeah. That's, I mean, it's exciting to have something where we don't have any idea what's going to happen.

[01:14:54] Well, so, and this was something we talked about in the last episode where, where I was on with you and Ben, where whether or not there's going to be more, uh, infected this season or less infected. I think more. And so far I feel like, Oh, I think there's going to be more. I mean, we've already had the same number of clickers that we had in all of season one. Um, you know, we had one when Ellie and Tommy are shooting with a rifle and then we have one where we're spider monkey took it out.

[01:15:21] So, um, well, except, um, that amazing scene with the bloater. Oh my Lord. So I did just rewatch that. Like I said, I was rewatching recently all this stuff and, and, uh, you know, the Melanie Lensky scuff, uh, whatever. But that whole scene with the bloater and the contortionist clicker and all that, that was an amazing scene. And seeing Tommy's voice actor having his head ripped off Joel style. Really?

[01:15:49] That, that was some great stuff right there. Really? Absolutely. Yeah. Very good. All right. That is our show. Episode six 33. Thanks for listening, everybody. Thank you, Eric. It was really fun to geek out on this. So we both loved it so much. Next episode is going to be the feedback episode, which is a recording in a couple of days.

[01:16:15] So if you're hearing me, you may have a chance to get some feedback in if you haven't yet. So that'd be great to hear from you. And if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcast.com. While you're there, you might as well check out some of our other podcasts. Uh, actually one of our other podcasts that you might want to check out is this one, because, uh, as I mentioned at the top, we've been doing a walking dead rewatch since October, 2023.

[01:16:43] We're up to season four episode 12 still, but we took a break to focus on the last of us. Uh, but man, that is a peak era in the walking dead. So which seasons are you in season four or five season four towards the end. And you're going to be on the Grove. I don't know if you remember, but you're scheduled for that to come on with us. And cool. I forgot. So if you're, if you're a walking dead fan and you haven't been listening, um, I recommend

[01:17:11] just going back and listening to coverage of any of your favorite episodes that we've gotten to so far, because it's been different going through it a second time. For one thing, having so much podcasting under our belts, we're, we're better at it, but also just knowing everything that happened in the series, we can look at it from different angles and stuff. And it's just been a really good time. You know, I have not done anything like that with the walking dead, but hindsight is such a delightful thing. Yeah.

[01:17:38] Some of these shows going back and seeing, uh, uh, Bernthal John Bernthal as Shane. I appreciate his performance way more now after knowing what Eric's over in his head. Uh, your ears are growing. It's weird. No. Uh, but just what he's done since then. And, uh, even Steven Young and just, you know, just like get a whole new appreciation for a lot of different things. And, you know, with, uh, Scott Wilson being gone and just appreciating seeing him again. Oh my God. Scott.

[01:18:08] Yeah. I have, I have the most fond memories of that man. I can't even begin to tell you. I mean, cause I did a number of his, uh, uh, moderated a number of his panels and one of them in particular, San Francisco, at the end of it, Scott Wilson came to me and he said, you're very good at this. Oh, I love that so much. That was so cool. Like getting that kind of, getting that kind of validation from a dude like Scott Wilson. He was great. Yeah. Yeah. Such a sweet man. He's a good guy. I just had to throw that out there. Sorry. No, no, absolutely. Yeah.

[01:18:36] I mean, I, we've talked about that in the rewatch too, because it was Walker Stalker conventions going on through all of that. And, um, Eric was at a lot of them and I was at a ton of them and just got to know some of the actors. And so I bring up stories and stuff as they come along and point out the interviews that we did and all that. Oh, I have, I have. Yeah. So many. I also want to mention this episode's made possible by Patreon supporters like Martin Doyle, who've pledged their support at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Thanks so much to Martin and everyone else who does that.

[01:19:06] If you guys weren't doing it, then you probably wouldn't be hearing this podcast right now. So I really appreciate it. Bunch of great perks on there. There's exclusive podcasts, private Facebook and discord groups. We do occasional call in shows recently in honor of covering the walking dead season four, episode 12 still where Daryl and Beth played. Never have I ever a bunch of us got together and played it over zoom and it was pretty fun. Still is, is that the episode where Daryl was all sad in the prison?

[01:19:36] No, they're out of the prison at this point. Oh, they're out of the prison. It's Daryl and Beth screaming at each other. Oh, that's right. I remember that one. He's pissing in the corner. I remember that. Okay. Yeah. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Alan Ty. Bye. I got bit, everybody. I got bit.